The Copywriter Club Podcast

Geoff Kullman is our guest for the 268th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast. Geoff is a direct-response copywriter and brand strategist who helps online entrepreneurs and personal brands tell better stories and make more money. Geoff breaks down how he uses neuroscience and psychology to write impactful copy that converts. Here’s all the things we talk about: The common denominator for copywriters and other writers. Geoff’s journey from devout pastor to direct-response copywriter. The importance of showcasing your abilities and talents within your website and business. How to make niching your own and work for you. The framework that takes people from prospect to customer. How to break down the 6-step framework for strong emails and sales pages. The difference between prompt and pitch and why it matters. Trauma-informed marketing and how to write from a place of empathy. Why the marketing world is shifting and how we can adapt to the changes. How to be more intentional about your client avatar. Finding your brand voice and helping your clients find theirs. Where most copywriters go wrong when creating ideal client avatars. What to leave out of emails to make them more compelling and connect with your audience on a deeper level. The impact neuroscience has on the words we write and why they convert. The psychology of why social proof works so well. What chemicals need to be released during the conversion process and in what order. Can you network as an introvert? Dealing with a scarcity mindset and making the shift to an abundant mindset. If you want to learn more about the psychology behind copywriting, be sure to tune into this episode. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Geoff’s website Geoff’s podcast Gabby’s website Episode 89 Episode 232   Full Transcript: Kira: When you first started copywriting, you probably learned about creating a client avatar and all about storytelling, but what if you could take it a step further and tell stories that could make an even stronger impact? Our guest for the 268th episode of the Copywriter Club is Geoff Kullman. Geoff uses the power of neuroscience and psychology to create a deeper, more meaningful connection with people, and today I am joined by my co-host Gabby Jackson. How’s it going? Gabby? Gabby: It’s going well. How are you? Kira: Doing really well, Gabby. So you are on our team, we have had so many people in our audience asked to hear more about our team members, and I want to introduce you today just so everyone can get to know you a little bit better. So why don’t you just kick off with how you heard about the Copywriter Club and what you do on the team? Gabby: So, yes, I am super excited to be here. I discovered the Copywriter Club by wanting to find out more information about copywriting in general, and I was all about podcasts, still am all about podcasts, and I just typed in copywriting. This podcast was the first one to pop up, and I started binging episode after episode, and I decided I have to be part of this community, this club, how do I get in? Kira: No, wait, when was that, Gabby? Gabby: That was probably last August or September, yeah, so it’s been a little over a year. Kira: Yeah. I remember when we first met you in the underground on our first … our meet and greet call with you, and we met you, and you just had such great energy that Rob and I were texting each other, we’re like, “We have to figure out a way to get Gabby on our team so we can work with her.” We were lucky enough that you joined the team, and so what do you do today on the team? Gabby: So, on the team I handle a lot of the social media aspects, whether that mean graphics or captions, some email writing, podcast show notes and introductions, and some Pinterest tasks as well. Kira: Yeah, and the cool thing about today is that Gabby actually works on these. We call them interjections, this is basically our commentary that we add to every episode, and Gabby and Rosie work on these every week. So Gabby, maybe you can give us some insight into how you put these together today, and to share your process real quick. Gabby: Yeah. I love putting these together because I feel like I get an inside scoop before everybody else. So I’ll listen through the interview, and I’m really just jotting down anything that sounds kind of intriguing to me. I feel like everybody on the team is a little bit the same in what we like to listen to, and copywriters in general so I’ll write down anything that sounds interesting. Then I’ll kind of lay it out in bullet points so that way it’s easy for everybody to read, kind of go in through different points of the podcast, and then you all make your comments, and we’ll kind of just go through and clean everything up, take out any extra language that maybe we don’t

Amy Collins is our guest for the 267th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast. Amy is a storyteller and copy strategist who unveils the mystery of creating stories out of everyday events. By taking your conversation skills to the next level, you can craft better stories not just for yourself but for your clients. Win-win, right? We break it down like this: Amy Collins journey from the art of writing to the art of copywriting. How to work on referrals, so you don’t have to overload the cold pitches. Is it possible to perfect the art of conversation? And is it even a thing? How to get your clients to disarm themselves and enhance the conversation. The different ways you can niche in your business. Reframing your perspective on being in your ideal client’s inbox. Behind the scenes of a storytelling master’s process. Why open loops take your emails to a whole new level. The common mistakes copywriters make when telling stories in their emails and how to fix them. How you can play with language to take your reader on a journey. Tools you can use to become a better storyteller. When to use VOC data and how to blend it into your story. Using your past lives to add value to your copy. Why “should” needs to disappear from the English Dictionary. How to become aware of your negative self-talk. The active choice to invest in yourself and your business. Going against the status-quo and ridding yourself of the need for validation. Thinking about starting an email list but have no idea what you should write to them? This is a good place to start. Hit that play button below or check out the transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Amy’s website Nic’s website Full Transcript: Rob: When it comes right down to it, copywriting is a lot like having a conversation with your customers, or the customers of your client. And like any good conversationalist, that means that you can’t afford to be boring. You have to stand out, engage the person you’re talking to, and be interesting and interested. Our guest for this episode of the Copywriter Club Podcast is copy strategist and storyteller, Amy Collins. Amy shares how she’s been able to have genuine conversations with her clients, and she gives us a few ideas for how we could all do better at this important skill. You’re going to want to stick around for this one, but before we jump into the episode, my co-host for today is copywriter, voice strategist, and I just learned this a few seconds ago, trained as a radio announcer, Nicola Moors. Nic, welcome. Nic: Hi, thanks so much for having me. Rob: Yeah, I’m excited. I’m excited to have this conversation and have you share some of your takeaways. And of course, if anybody’s been listening to the podcast for a while, they’ll recognize that you were a guest on the podcast maybe a little over a half a year ago. If I remember, that was episode 200 and, what, 53. Nic: Thirty-six. Rob: 236, 236. Nic: Thirty-six. Rob: Okay. Nic: Yeah. Rob: So, check out what Nic shared, and you shared a ton of really good stuff, your research process, how you were a journalist, and some of the crazy stories that you had to track down as a journalist. It’s really interesting episode, good listen, and lots of good advice about brand voice. So, let people check that out. Nic: Thanks. Rob: And of course, this episode of the podcast is sponsored by… right now, today, it’s sponsored by the Copywriter Accelerator. We’re getting ready to relaunch the accelerator in January, so keep your eyes open for that. The accelerator is our 16-week program that helps copywriters some of them starting out, some of them who have been in business for years re-establish or create the foundation for their business. We talk about things like mindset and goal setting. We help you create packages, price them appropriately, figure out how you’re going to show up in the world with your brand, how you work with clients, all of those things. And we’ve literally just reworked all of the content. So, we’re excited to share this updated and revised version with the world. If you want to get on the wait list for that, go to thecopywriteraccelerator.com, and we’ll send you more information as soon as that opens up. Okay, so we’re going to jump into our interview that Kira did with Amy Collins and be back in a little while. Amy: So officially, I got into copywriting about a decade ago. I was pursuing the art of writing in different elements. Some of that was journalism writing for a local magazine in Florence Alabama, where I was living at the time. Some of it was writing a blog, short true stories if you will, little essays. And then I needed money and journalism doesn’t pay much, and blogging certainly doesn’t pay. So, I just started talking to people around town who might nee

Angie Colee is our guest for the 266th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast. Angie is a copywriter and copy chief turned business and confidence coach who took a while to find her way into the copywriting role she is the best fit for. No matter where you are in your copywriting journey, you’ll leave with notes filled front and back. Here’s what we talk about: How Angie went from working for the Oprah Winfrey network to underpaid copywriter. Do you have to have a degree to become a copywriter? Feeling stuck with projects and clients but using every project as a learning opportunity. How learning on the fly can make you a better writer. The power to walk away from toxic work environments and open the door to new opportunities. The different levels of copywriting. Where might you fit in? Shifting into a lead role and managing other copywriters. The difference between a full-time corporate copywriter and per project roles. Finding a team that respects your value, time, and expertise. How to deal with comparisonitis and feelings of not being where you think you should be. Why it’s a good idea to take on challenges before you think you’re ready. The importance of swallowing your pride as a writer and receiving criticism. Tips on being a better copy chief. How to look at what you can bring to big, successful businesses as a small business owner. Hint: Don’t assume you have nothing to bring to the table. Why you shouldn’t be intimidated by launching. Steps you can take to create stronger launch campaigns without exhausting yourself. How you can help others in copywriting communities even if you’re not an expert. The switch Angie made from copywriter to coach. Time management between clients, students, and your own business. How to get over writer’s block when the muse isn’t striking. The mindset blocks many face when they’re trying something new in their business. Hit the play button or check out the transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Angie’s website The Well-Fed Writer by Peter Bowerman Mindset by Carol Dweck Episode 208 Full Transcript: Rob: Becoming a great copywriter doesn’t happen overnight. In fact, most of us have stumbled around a bit to get where we are. I spent time at a web startup and running my own SaaS business while Kira learned how to sell and clean cars at Enterprise Rental Service, she picked you up. So stumbling around a variety of jobs to find your way into copywriting is pretty common. But the good news? Through the missteps and the struggles, most of us finally arrive at something resembling a successful copywriting career, and our guest for this episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Angie Colee. Angie is a copywriter and a copy chief turned business and confidence coach who took a while to find her way into the copywriting role that she’s the best fit for, and the advice that she shared in our interview is fantastic. We think you’re definitely going to want to stick around to hear what she had to share. Kira: But before we dive into this episode, TCCIRL is the sponsor of this episode. TCCIRL, our big event, our big annual event, is going back to in-person stage in 2022 and we couldn’t be more excited. It’s a two and a half day event where you get to connect and hear from other copywriters and marketers about the best tools and strategies you can use to grow your copywriting business and to enhance your own skills and mindset, and one of the best parts is connecting in real life with other copywriters that maybe you’ve bumped into online and you finally can connect in-person over lunch, over dinner, over coffee, over drinks. Tickets are limited and this is not like a faux scarcity thing. We actually have a venue that can only hold a certain amount of people so if you do want to attend this year, if you’re missing hanging out in real life with fellow copywriters, grab your early bird ticket. Now is definitely the time to do that. Rob: Yeah, I am so excited to get back in-person live with everybody. We were I think the last conference before the virus shut everything down and – Kira: We were. Yeah. Rob: It’s going to be fun, so the event will take place on March 28th through the 30th. It’s in Nashville, Tennessee and I’m not a tax expert but The Copywriter Club In Real Life likely qualifies as a business deduction for your taxes so it’s a little bit like getting the government to pay you to come and hang out with us which is a pretty good deal. If you want to learn more or get your tickets, you can go to thecopywriterclub.com/tccirl-2022, that’s 2022. Kira: And Rob, we haven’t seen each other since then, have we? Rob: No. We haven’t. Not in person. Kira: I haven’t seen you since March 2020. Rob: So yeah, this might be the first time that we see each other in two years in

Daniel Throssell takes the mic on the 265th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast. Daniel is a copywriter who has created something he likes to call, “The Parallel Welcome Sequence.” He teaches his students how to look at storytelling from a different lens, and now he’s going to give you a glimpse into how he makes it happen. Here’s how the conversation breaks down: His grand escape from being an electrical engineer on a remote island. Winning a coaching call based on a story he wrote with no experience at all. How he was able to go from no experience to charging $200 an hour on Upwork. The Facebook message that would change the game for Daniel. How he managed to become the most-copied Upwork profile and how he gained 5 star reviews. Why he is so passionate about writing soap-opera-slash-personality-driven emails. The importance of partnership in copywriting. The difference between one off projects and growing with a business over time. The advantages of building your own list vs writing for a client list. How to get on more podcasts with this simple tip. The benefits of having a financial cushion when going after your dream business. How to test out your own launch ideas and analyze the results. How Daniel grew his list from 0-5000 in 18 months: what’s the secret? Why you should think about creating a welcome sequence from a different angle. The importance of staying consistent even when you think no one is listening. Why copywriters have an edge against other marketers and business owners. How to maximize and connect with your superfans. Shifting your business from client-focused to self-focused. Who should do a parallel welcome sequence? Pop your earbuds in or check out the transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Daniel’s website Laura Belgray interview part 2 Brandi Mowles podcast interview Connect with Robbie King Full Transcript: Kira: If you’ve ever said to yourself, “I want to get paid to be me,” this is the interview for you. Today’s guest for the 265th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast is Daniel Throssell. A copywriter who’s not afraid to show his weird side and approach list growth and relationship building differently. But before we dive in, let me introduce you to my cohost for today, Robbie King. Robbie, welcome to the show. Thanks for doing this with me. Robbie: Thanks very much for having me. It’s lovely to be here. Kira: I want you to just quickly introduce yourself, who are you, how do we even know each other? Robbie: Yes. So, we met probably virtually about two and a half years ago, when I was just kind of scratching my head about copywriting. And remember, we had a bit of back and forth. And then pretty quickly I realized that signing up for The Underground, and then eventually The Think Tank was just going to be the best thing to get my business going and help stop me banging my head against the wall, I think. Kira: And Robbie, what are you doing today? Robbie: So today, I actually work in house for a tech marketing agency. That was after a good year and a bit of having my freelance business. I did that after a good few months of just learning the whole business side of running a copywriting business. I thought I’d balanced that out a bit by just, I guess learning on someone else’s dime, there’s a lot to be said for that. It’s proven very useful. I’ve gone deeper into my skill set, into my niche, which is video and content consultancy. So, I’ve been doing a lot of that. And I’m still writing copy. So, it’s been quite the journey. Kira: I know you shared this with me earlier, but maybe you could just share that that idea came from Matt Hall at TCCIRL. Do you mind just sharing how you had that idea to go back in house? Robbie: Yes. Shout out to Matt Hall. Great guy, great talk, TCCIRL 2020. He had a great take on spending time freelancing, and in house and the benefits of both, and how both environments have the pros and cons for one’s education. And so, with that in mind, I thought that after a couple of years, freelancing would be a good idea to go in house. And, of course, in the back of my mind, I’m thinking, “Well, at some point, I may flip back to freelance.” That’s the exciting part, I guess. Kira: Very cool. Well, let’s jump in. Before we do that, of course, this episode of the podcast is sponsored by The Think Tank Mastermind. Robbie, as he said, is an alumni member of The Think Tank. So, Robbie, can you just share maybe what your experience was like in The Think Tank and the biggest benefit for you? Robbie: Yes. So, I mean, I came to The Think Tank probably from a slightly different position to most people, my business was actually quite new. So, it was kind of the definition of moving fast and breaking things. I was just like, “Let&#8

Ahfeeyah C. Thomas is our guest for the 264th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast. Ahfeeyah is a serial entrepreneur who teaches business owners how to grow their teams, so they can scale to 6 and 7 figure businesses. If you’ve been wondering how you can scale your business or become a better leader, tune into the episode. How a resume writer became a successful CEO. How to navigate entrepreneurship with a love for the corporate sector. The better way to write your resume to land the job. Why you need to improve your job descriptions to attract the right candidates. Lessons from Harvard you can use in your own business. How to build team productivity and why you need an organizational chart. The core system Ahfeeyah uses to help her clients scale their businesses. Is it ever too soon to hire? How a virtual assistant or social media manager will help your business. Mistakes business owners are making and how to fix them. The scalable CEO model: How does it work? How we can become better leaders through learning about ourselves and the people we hire. How to know when you’re becoming a bottleneck in your own business. The different types of leadership and why it’s always a good idea to lead with empathy. How to shift your mindset and step into your CEO role. Steps to take to knock the fear of growing a team. Combining a quality client experience with quality deliverables. How to ask for feedback and why you need to take the emotions out of it. Navigating perfectionism and procrastination… How do we get out of the cycle? Do creatives experience the fastest burnout? Debating about hiring your first contractor or want to implement better systems? Grab your headphones or check out the transcription below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Ahfeeyah’s website Hiring and Working with a VA with Hillary Weiss The Ins and Outs of Creating a Microagency with Jamie Jensen 21 laws of leadership by John C. Maxwell   Full Transcript: Kira: Running your own business is hard enough. There are countless tasks you need to carry out. And sometimes it can just feel like way too much. What needs my attention first? Should I hire someone to help? And if so, who should I hire? Well, if you’re growing your business, you’re not alone. Ahfeeyah C. Thomas joins us to talk about how to hire a team and become a scalable CEO on the 264th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: Before we dive into our interview with Ahfeeyah, this episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Accelerator. And if you’re listening, you might be thinking, “Well, wait a second, The Accelerator’s not even open, why are you even talking about this?” And it’s because we’re making a few changes to The Accelerator the next time we do open. And if you’ve been thinking about joining this program, there’s never been a better time to join the waitlist. So, you make sure that you get notified when it opens up for new members early next year. And when it comes to those changes, a couple of things that we’re doing is going through all of the content. We’re not necessarily saying that the old content was bad. We’re just saying we’re updating it with newer information. We’re adding in better frameworks to make it more understandable and improving the blueprints that help you put all of the advice and ideas and strategies into action so that you come out of the other end of The Accelerator with a business that is just ready for rocket ship growth or whatever it is that your goal is for your copywriting business. So, if you want to be on the waitlist that you can hear about those changes and be notified of the new Copywriter Accelerator program or what it becomes, go to thecopywriteraccelerator.com and join the waitlist. Kira: Let’s begin with Ahfeeyah’s journey. Ahfeeyah: The honest question is I feel like it was a combination of just allowing myself to operate within my passion, operate within my purpose and allow the journey to be what it needed to be. So for me, it didn’t start with business coaching. I started out actually as a resume writer at the age of 18 years old was my very first business and I was writing resumes for $40. Now, obviously the prices went up since then, but at the time that’s what it was. And so naturally the passion behind that was that I wanted to help women and minorities be able to get paid for what they love to do. And so, at the time my vision was, if I can rewrite their resumes, then I would be able to help them to get into positions that paid them more and that they were passionate about. And so that started that way. I gained my coaching certification through the International Coaching Federation, became a career coach and then always found a love between corporate and the business arena. And

Rachel Ngom is our guest for the 263rd episode of The Copywriter Club podcast. Rachel is a Pinterest Strategist and Expert who teaches her clients how to utilize Pinterest to build their pipeline of leads. She plans to retire by 40 and has made investments and an action plan to make it happen. Here’s how the conversation breaks down: How Africa changed Rachel’s life for the better. How Rachel built a 6-figure business with -$400 and a new baby. The reality of selling on social media and the pivots that come along the way. Getting 1.8 million people to find your blog by utilizing Pinterest. Growing your list to 20k and having to pivot again and again. Living the digital nomad lifestyle while running multiple successful businesses. How to make investments from a profitable business. Why you absolutely need to put yourself in uncomfortable positions repeatedly. Building the courage to do the basic things in life when you’re in a different country and culture. How to visualize your success and take action. Taking your life lessons and translating them into your current business and lifestyle. Consistency. Is it really necessary? The secret to building up personal discipline and the perfect morning routine. How to do with what you have. Why everyone can and should be using Pinterest as a lead generation tool and SEO platform. Mistakes you could be making on Pinterest and how to fix them. The systems and processes needed to run a multiple 6-figure business. Why you need to start teaching duplication with your team. How to shift your mindset around failure. The right time to invest in other businesses, so you can set yourself up to retire young. How to know an idea is worth pursuing. If you need inspiration around investments, retiring, or where your next lead is coming from, this is the episode to tune into. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Rachel’s website Ask by Ryan Levesque Pinterest Cheatsheet Annie’s website Episode 87 Episode 21 Full Transcript: Kira: Build the business, scale the business, run the business on autopilot, and retire by 40. No biggie. That’s a dream for many business owners. But how does it actually happen? What steps or events need to take place to make it a reality? Well, we’ll dive into all the steps in today’s 263rd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast with Rachel Ngom. Rachel is a Pinterest marketer and serial entrepreneur. During this interview, we talk about how to use Pinterest for lead generation, how to pivot your business, and how to get really uncomfortable in your life and business. I’m joined today by my co-host and Think Tank alumni member, Annie Bacher. Annie, thank you so much for co-hosting with me today. Can you just kick it off with just a quick intro, if anyone hasn’t heard your interview on the podcast which is episode 218. So we can all check out, revisit your interview on the podcast. But can you just provide a quick intro? Who are you, Annie? Who are you? Annie: Thanks, Kira. So I’m Annie. I am a B2B SaaS copywriter. And I am obsessed with using copy to help tech companies make the internet a friendlier and more human sounding place. Kira: All right. Well, thanks for joining me today. And before we dive in, this episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by the Think Tank. Annie as a former member of the Think Tank, can you share just what type of impact the mastermind had on your business and your life? Annie: Oh, where to start? Well, I didn’t call myself a B2B SaaS copywriter before I joined the Think Tank. I didn’t have a lot of focus, and I honestly didn’t even know it was possible for me. So since being in the Think Tank for a year, I hit six figures in my business, I started building a team, and I’ve been working with clients I never would have dreamed I could work with like ConvertKit, Pitch, and some other well-known SaaS companies. Kira: All right. Well, thanks, Annie for sharing that. And let’s kick this off and find out where Rachel’s journey began. Rachel: I like to call myself an accidental entrepreneur. So I lived in Africa for a while, moved back and got my master’s in social work. And when I graduated, I went to the top program in the country and I couldn’t find a job even with my master’s. And my husband was starting a brand-new business, we had a brand-new baby. We ended up broke on food stamps, negative $400 in our checking account. And I was like, “All right. So what are we going to do? Got to figure something out.” And I was a part of a network marketing company at the time, and I saw other people having success. And I was like, “If they can do it, I can do it, I got to figure it out.” So, I failed forward, failed a lot, and eventually really understood how to use social media to grow that business back in 2012, 2

On the 262nd episode of The Copywriter Club podcast, we’re joined by Jacob Suckow. Jacob is a Funnel and Launch Strategist who helps his clients sell their products on autopilot. From filling up your lead pipeline to creating products and services that sell, this episode is filled with useful advice you can implement into your business. Here’s what we talk about: How Jacob went from working with the Seattle Seahawks to working in cookie dough sales. The method Jacob used to grow cookie dough sales from 25k to 4 million in a matter of a few years. How a pivot landed him working with companies like McDonald’s and Disney. The moment he realized he needed to be his own boss. Creating a pipeline to keep clients rolling in. Why building your network is your greatest funnel resource. Switching roles from freelancer to strategist. What’s the difference? How Jacob reverse-engineered how to make 100k a year without working 80 hours a week. Why letting go of clients will benefit your business and help it grow. The kind of clients that make for high-income months. Is there a mindset trick behind making six figures? How to fill your pipeline with ‘ready to go’ clients. What 15-minute connections can do for you and your business. The steps to building a solid network. Why you should build an audience even if you have nothing to sell. The key to being loud in your industry. How to create offers that people want to buy. What’s the method to the madness? Where do offers go wrong and how can they be fixed? The upside to being able to create your own offers. Tune into the episode by hitting the play button below or check out the transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Jacob’s website Kickass Copywriting by Jacob Carlton Skip the Line by James Altucher   Full Transcript: Kira: When you’re still learning the ins and outs of your business, the last thing you want to worry about is where your next lead is coming from. We’d prefer a lengthy line, kind of like the line outside the Apple store when Apple released the new iPhone 13. That’s the kind of line we want, filled with dream clients just waiting to work with you. Our guests for the 262nd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast gives us the lowdown on lead generation so we can create a demand for our copywriting services and hopefully never stress over finding clients again. Our guest, Think Tank member Jacob Suckow, is a copywriter and launch strategist who skyrocketed his business within months by creating a full pipeline of leads. But before we jump in, I’d like to introduce my co-host for today’s episode, TCCIRL speaker, “two-peat” speaker at TCCIRL and then a podcast guest from way back, Episode 13, long time ago, conversion copywriter, funnel optimizer and growth ecosystem designer, Sam Woods. Thanks for being here, Sam. Sam: Thanks for having me, Kira. It’s good to be speaking with you. Kira: Yeah, I’m excited to co-host this with you. Before we jump in, though, can you just share a quick update of what you’ve been up to over the last few months in your business? Sam: Yeah. It’s a mixed bag of things. Over the past year or so, taking a step back and only worked on a handful of more in-depth projects. I think either you’re a copywriter and you do a lot of smaller projects or you do a few big projects or maybe you have a mix. But for me, it’s been only a few handful of deeper projects with various companies. It’s still with copywriting, still optimizing different ways that they’re acquiring customers and been working on some barge campaigns. So it’s been nice. It’s been a nice break from the smaller type projects, nice to set those aside and deep dive into a few things. I think I prefer the mix. It’s nice to go back and forth. Kira: Yeah. When you say bigger projects, do you mean in terms of not only deliverables, but length of time you’re working with clients or are you working with them for six months to a year in this capacity? Sam: Yeah, pretty much. Bigger scope in terms of what the project is, the pieces involved and also, the length of time for however long you work with them. For me, with the projects, a few projects that I worked on, they’re probably 10 to 12 months long projects, I would think, about on average what they’ve been like. It’s been nice. Kira: Okay, cool. Sam: Okay. Well, before we jump into Jacob’s interview, Kira, let’s hear a word from our sponsor. Kira: It’s me again, I am a sponsor. Actually, our Think Tank Mastermind is our official podcast sponsor. The Think Tank is our private mastermind of copywriters and other marketers who want to take massive action inside their businesses. Whether that’s taking on bigger clients or creating new offers within their own businesses, ou

We’re talking all things multi-passionate projects on the 261st episode of The Copywriter Club podcast with Annabel Landaverde. Annabel is a Launch Copywriter who doesn’t let big dreams scare her away from taking action. If you’ve ever thought to yourself, “I can’t take on something new because I’m already doing so many things,” then this is the episode for you. Here’s how it breaks down: When your dream job doesn’t meet your expectations. How finding a group of like-minded people can spark new passions. Can sales and empathy go hand in hand? How to connect with your ideal client and meet them where they’re at. Is it all about sales? – How to be clear and ethical when someone isn’t a good fit. The ins and outs of internal branding and marketing for large companies. Maintaining a full-time job and building a freelancing business. How morning routines and monthly check-ins keep you on track. Do we only complete 10 projects in a lifetime?! What goes into creating a 7-figure launch. The first piece of copy needed when creating a launch plan. How you can go from copywriter to launch strategist. What copywriters can do to make their client launches more successful. Where you should start when e-commerce business is on your mind. How to deal with the little voice in the back of your head. Creating practices that will keep your big goals alive. When your ideas seem to be circling you, be sure to tune into this episode. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Influence by Robert Cialdini Start Finishing by Charlie Gilkey Annabel’s Instagram Annabel’s website Episode 234 with Linda Perry Episode 241 with Daniel Lamb Episode 70 with Joe Schriefer       Full Transcript: Kira: The great thing about tapping into your entrepreneurial side as a copywriter is you can control your career and fate. You can grow and evolve personally and professionally over decades. You can chase any vision, as long as you don’t lose sight of it. Today’s guests for the 261st episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Think Tank member, Annabel Landaverde. Annabel is a clear example of a multi passionate copywriter and entrepreneur who doesn’t let big dreams or goals scare her away from building her dream eCommerce business. Rob: Before we jump into our interview with Annabel, which is much better than last week’s interview with our guest, this podcast is sponsored by the Copywriter Think Tank. That’s our mastermind for copywriters and other marketers who want to think outside the box and build new offers or revenue streams into their business. There’s a couple of reasons that I like the Think Tank. Number one, you’re surrounded by a bunch of other ambitious copywriters, doing copywriter E-things. Not just copywriters though, marketers and experts trying to grow businesses using copywriting as a superpower. Number two, it’s built around your goals. A lot of times with masterminds you join, the person that’s leading the mastermind has a specific way that they built their business and they teach everybody to do that same way. That’s not how the Think Tank operates. We focus on your goals and what you want to achieve, and then figure out how best to get there. Number three, if you joined the Copywriter Think Tank you get everything included in the Copywriter Club, including free ticket to the event that we’ll be talking about in the very near future next year in Nashville. If you want more information about the Copywriter Think Tank, go to copywriterthinktank.com Kira: Okay, let’s dive into the episode and find out how Annabel started her journey. Annabel Landaverde: It was a windy road, I definitely didn’t graduate college thinking, “Oh, direct response.” In fact, I graduated college with a political science degree and thought that I was going to go government or nonprofit. What I ended up doing actually was becoming an admission counselor for my alma mater. I didn’t know it at the time but that was my first introduction to direct sales, really, because what I did was, I would recruit nationally. I’d go to different high school fairs or just high school or college fairs and meet with kids and tell them why, Gustavus Adolphus College is where I went in Minnesota, was a great place to go. Then, I would guide them through the application process. Through that, I was learning email marketing, I was learning face to face sales and then as soon as people decided, they got the financial aid package, they tried to figure out what’s the right choice, then it’s really closing the deal. I did that for about three years, which took me to my next spot in San Francisco, which was working as a digital marketing associate for the World Affairs Council. I thought it was my dream job. Again, I was a pol-sci major and here I was, basical

Mentors. You look up to them and admire how they can help you, but have you ever wondered… “who are they in real life?” For the 260th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast, Rob Marsh is the interviewee, and he shares answers ranging from lessons in business to his go-to self-care routine. Ready to check out the inner workings of Rob Marsh? How to navigate when business moves slower. The skill of generating big ideas. Is it innate? Analyzing your time and productivity. Are you trying to do too much? Does Rob ever struggle with writing copy? – Or is he a copy magician? The inside scoop on Rob’s best and worst clients. Raising teens and knowing when to run. The lessons you can learn from your parents and how it applies to your business. Rob’s self-care routine. What Rob hopes to do better in the next year. What is Rob Marsh’s X-factor? Rob’s advice for the introverted copywriter. Why you need to send yourself a check for 1 million dollars. Money mindset and unlearning things from childhood. How did Rob become a reading fiend? Breaking news: Rob the romantic?! One of the best business books Rob has read. Listen to the episode with your favorite earbuds or read the transcript with your favorite eyes. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground The Road Less Stupid Ready, Fire, Aim Full Transcript: Kira: Hi Rob. Rob: This is uncomfortable, I have to admit, to have you interviewing me. Obviously, we’ve done, I don’t know, 200 and almost 70 episodes of this podcast and got to admit, I don’t love being interviewed on my own podcast for some reason. Kira: Yeah, well, it’s almost like you don’t trust me. Rob: Maybe that’s what it is. That’s probably what it is. Wow, 28 seconds in and we’ve nailed it. We know exactly what’s the problem here. Kira: I mean, we’ve had five years together in business and 270 episodes, but you still don’t trust me. I don’t know what else I have to do. Rob: Yes, I’m going to have to think about that. That’s a question I don’t think I can answer right now. Kira: All right, so today’s going to be fun, fun for me, not fun for Rob. We decided to, well, we didn’t decide, I think I decided that I was going to interview you. Rob: No, you decided. This was not a mutual decision. Kira: Yes, just like our underwater pool photoshoot a couple of years ago. So, today, we are going to get to know Rob better. And I’m asking questions based off what I would like to know about you, Rob. And so, you can share some of your wisdom with us, and also, just some personal tidbits here and there just so we can get to know the real Rob Marsh a little bit better. Rob: And I think, if anybody’s listening, they’re like, “Wait a second, I think I’d rather get to know the real Kira Hug better 10 episodes,” we’ll be back and we’re going to do this all the other way around. Kira: I will be sick, sick that day. It’ll be out sick. Rob: Yeah. Kira: No. Rob: Trust who is the question now. Kira: Let’s kick it off with, okay, let’s just start with some easy questions. We’ve been building TCC together over the last five years. So, I’m just curious, what are some of the big lessons you’ve learned from building this specific business? Rob: Yeah, when you told me you’re going to ask me this, I’m still kind of trying to figure out what are the biggest lessons. I think, I mean, there’s so many. But I think number one is when you build a business like this, and The Copywriter Club is different from you building a copywriting business or me building my copywriting business. Obviously, we’re doing a lot of things together. And we’re doing a lot of things that we probably couldn’t do on our own. And so, number one lesson, I think, is just having a partner allows you to do more because you can focus on different areas of the business. You can play to your strengths. And hopefully, you and I have partners that make up for some of our weaknesses. So, it’s not all strengths and nobody’s covering the weaknesses. But I think number one is that I could not have done this without you as my partner. I’m not sure if you could have done it without me. I won’t presume to know the answer to that. But having a partner allows us to get more done. And so, that’s maybe number one lesson. Number two lesson is that this should have been obvious, because this is always a business lesson. But things go slower than you want them to for all kinds of different reasons. Things always take longer than maybe we planned for or that we hope for. And so, yeah, just knowing that things sometimes have gone slower than what either one of us have wanted is a big takeaway. And maybe number three, we started out doing it all ourselves

Chris Orzechowski is back on the show for the 259th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast. Chris has shifted his business into an agency and he’s become known as an expert E-Commerce Email Strategist. Chris breaks down what it looks like to run an agency without diluting the client experience. If an agency business model has been on your mind, tune into this episode. Here’s how it all goes down: How Chris launched an agency at the beginning of a pandemic. The ins and outs of running an agency and who should run an agency. Why building an agency can come with a lot of relearning. The different types of agencies and which could be right for you. Solving agency problems. Is there a difference? Assessing the goals and milestones when running an agency. Do you have to dilute your work or client experience in an agency model? What does profit look like inside an agency? The different types of lead generation. What will work for you? How to hire and manage a team. Finding your strengths and weaknesses and executing an action plan. The 4 tools you need to start running a business today. The importance of SOPs and how it will create clear processes in your business. What does it take to write a book? Is it as difficult as you may think? How to get the upper hand in blogs and speaking gigs. The power of shifting your business when something isn’t working. Building authority and becoming known as the expert. How does it actually happen? How to make big vision goals less overwhelming and actionable. How to look at the big picture when you start to spiral into the unknown. Copywriters and email lists: Do you need one? The strategy you need to implement for email marketing. Are lead magnets still relevant? Advice for anyone who feels comparisonitis. – Hint: Patience is essential. Even if an agency isn’t on your radar, this episode will give you actionable tips on how to run and grow your business. Hit the play button or read the transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Chris’s website Full Transcript: Kira: Long time listeners will know this about us already, but occasionally we like to bring back quests who we’ve interviewed before to see what’s been going on in their businesses since the last time we chatted. Often business moves in ways they didn’t predict when we spoke a couple of years ago. And we’re doing it again this week. Chris Orzechowski is our guest for this episode of the Copywriter Club podcast, and as you’ll see Chris has a very different business than the one he talked about when we interviewed him before. Rob: But before we jump into this interview, this podcast is sponsored by the Copywriter Think Tank, that’s our mastermind for copywriters and other marketers who want to think outside the box. Wow, we’re using a cliché to talk about thinking outside the box, that’s so inside the box. But, if you want to build new offers and revenue streams in your business, then the Copywriter Think Tank is the kind of place that might just be for you. So Kira, you asked me this last week, I’m going to ask you, why do you think the think tank helps copywriters experience real results? Kira: Yeah. What comes to my mind first is that we help copywriters go from feeling like a business owner and acting like a business owner and thinking like a business owner to feeling, thinking, acting like an entrepreneur. And we’ve talked about this frequently with our accelerator program where you can shift from a freelancer mindset to a business owner mindset. But once we’re in the think tank, and we’re working very closely with the copywriters in that room and they’re surrounded by 25 other copywriters who are ambitious and building businesses and restructuring models and figuring out how to do it in a way that works for them, that’s where that shift from business owner to entrepreneur really takes place. And we’ve seen it with the think tankers that have been in there and how they’ve grown even since they’ve left the think tank. So that’s the big shift for me that I’ve noticed, from the people that show up in the think tank. Rob: Yeah, I agree. If you want to be a great copywriter you study great copy writing. You surround yourself with good copywriters. But if you want to be a great business owner of a copywriting business, then you need to more than just copywriting. You need to study business principles. You need to be surrounded by people who are doing, not just interesting things, but successful things, big things, in their businesses. And that’s why something like the think tank helps so much. So I’ve you’re listening to us, talk about that. And if the Copywriter Think Tank sounds like something you’d at least like to know a little bit more about visit copywriterthinktan

Liz Wilcox will blow your email marketing mind on the 258th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast. Liz is a blogger turned email marketing expert who helps other bloggers become business owners. If you’ve been letting your list sit in the dust or you haven’t taken the plunge in creating an email list, this might be the episode to give you the push. Here’s how it all breaks down: Have you ever googled: How to make money from home? The overwhelm that comes with all the ways you could start a business and make money online. Why it’s a good idea to start your email list. (even with no audience) What you should do when you begin to grow your email list. Writing a book about poop? How it became the beginning of everything for Liz. The secrets behind a 100% conversion rate. Do you really need to go to the experts? Van life. Is it for you and can you start a business while living in the woods? How to think outside the box of what you see online. Going from idea to done and executed in one hour. How to get to a 47% email open rate. Steps to take to become a digital course creator. (do you need to give up client work?) When is it a good time to start pitching to podcasts? Creating an inclusive digital product based model and following through. How long email newsletters should really be taking you. Is storytelling a thing of the past? The difference between stories and updates on your life. Is Liz going to take over our newsletter? How to keep it fresh and exciting when writing to your list. Everything you don’t want to do when it comes to email marketing. Making your business your number 1 client and not apologizing for it. What every copywriter and business owner needs to be for themselves. How Will Smith will help you build your business. Need Will to help you build your business? Check out the episode below or read the transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Liz’s website   Full Transcript: Rob: You know how when you meet some people, they just seem to be stuck. They’re not able to move forward, they’re just not able to do anything. If they’re in business, maybe they’re stuck following everybody else’s formulas, doing the same thing that everybody else is doing. And then there’s some people that you meet who seem full of energy. They’re free. They’re definitely not stuck. It’s almost like anything is possible for them in business, in life. Well, today’s guest for the Copywriter Club podcast, is the type of copywriter and entrepreneur who broke out of that box a long time ago. She’s the type of creative who sees the worldwide web as the Wild Wild West, and as an opportunity to build and connect with companies, ideas and people. That’s copywriter Liz Wilcox. Kira: Before we jump into Liz’s interview, this podcast is sponsored by the Copywriter Think Tank. That’s our mastermind for copywriters and other marketers who want to think outside the box and build new offers and revenue streams in their businesses. Rob, I’m going to interview you. Why do you think the think tank helps copywriters and marketers experience real results? Why does it work? Rob: I’ve thought about this a lot recently, and I think one of the things that’s really different about the think tank is that we don’t have a single formula that we’re trying to get everybody to buy into or to follow. Some courses, some masterminds you’re working with, an expert who’s done it their way. And so they teach their way and they expect you to do everything the way that they did it. That’s not our approach. We start out by asking each member about their goals, about what they want to achieve, about the challenges that they’re facing, about the impact they want to have in the world, the authority they want to build. And based on those goals, we tailor the experience for each individual in the think tank. Everybody else in the think tank is doing something similar. They’re working on their goals, but when you have everybody working together to achieve their goals in their business, you start to see what other people are doing. There’s an effect that just happens where everybody grows together. And so it’s different from a lot of other programs that are a little bit more rigid. I think that’s one of the reasons why the think tank works. Kira: Wow. That’s a good answer. I feel like you practiced that. It was very smooth. Rob: Not practiced at all. I’m the most unpracticed person ever on the podcast. Kira: So smooth. If the Copywriter Think Tank sounds something that could help you in your business, you can visit copywriterthinktank.com to learn more. Rob: Okay. Let’s go to our interview with Liz and find out how she got her start as a copywriter. How did you become this expert

On the 257th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast, Kim Krause Schwalm is back on the show. Kim is an A-list copywriter and copy mentor who got her start in the marketing world. Since her first episode, she’s narrowed her focus on mentoring other copywriters on how to write better copy and attract high-level clients. If you’re looking for advice on becoming an A-list copywriter, this is for you. Here’s what we talk about: Going from time for money to value for money. What it looks like to begin mentoring by creating courses. The 5 key steps to writing good copy. Is there a set timeline for completing copy? Fact or myth: Can anyone be a copywriter? Why people devalue copy and how we can position ourselves for highest value. How grammar can make or break the sale of your product or service. The benefits of hiring a copywriter for your business. Why you need to stop working IN your business. Are the classic copywriting books still worth the read? (Kim needs a word with you.) Black and white thinking and how to overcome it. The importance of learning and relearning and how it will make you an A-list copywriter. Unlearning what you think you know about being a good writer. How to use your background to become a better copywriter. Do you have to do all the things to be well known in your industry? Podcasts, coaching, Youtube? The most common mistakes new and established copywriters keep on making. How to create stronger boundaries in order to create a sustainable business. Kim’s advice on how to work with head-honcho companies. What you need to do to increase the respect your clients give you. Getting paid for royalties: where do you begin? Outlining your agreements and contracts for greatest success. How to build your authority and accelerate your business. How does it actually start? Why watching reality TV and reading People magazine can be a good thing. Listen to one of the best in the business by hitting the button below or by checking out the transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Kim’s website Kim’s first episode Matt’s website Scientific Advertising Full Transcript: Kira: Just about everyone you meet on the street, thinks they’re a writer. You sit across from your cousin at the table and he talks about the novel he’s working on. Maybe you bump into an old classmate and they tell you they’re working on their body of work. Sure, anyone can publish their writing today. We should actually celebrate that, but not just anyone can write copy. If you want to be an A-lister and build a career as a copywriter, it takes more than just a pulse and a pencil to do this thing so many of us do daily. Today’s guests for The Copywriter Club Podcast has built her reputation around her impressive resume of copywriting accomplishments. That’s why she’s an A-lister we can all agree is actually on this phantom A-list. We’re talking about Kim Krause Schwalm. You can catch our first podcast interview with Kim back in the day in episode 40, where we talk about how she went from successful marketing director to control beating copywriter in less than two years. But today, Kim’s here to bust three copywriting myths. And before we jump into all of that, I want to introduce my co-host for this episode, Matt Hall. Matt Hall is a renaissance man. That’s the best title for him because he can do all the things in the marketing space. Any time anyone has any type of problem, I send them to Matt Hall. But Matt, that is the worst possible title for you. What do you actually do? What do you call yourself? Matt: What I really do is I solve problems. People come to me and they don’t say, “Matt, I’ve got money for you. Just take it, do with it what you will.” They come to me because there’s something they want me to do and something they want me to make better. So I do that with websites, I do that with copy, I do that with strategic planning. A lot of what I learned has come from being able to interact with people just like Kim. Actually, this is a cool episode to be on because I accidentally sat next to Kim. And I didn’t realize I was sitting next to this copy A-lister. So I’m talking to her, and what I’ve been talking to her about, Montessori for my kid. She was just the nicest, most generous person I could possibly be talking to at that lunch table in Brooklyn. It was just such a cool experience. And then later you realize, oh wow, this is Kim Krause Schwalm, she’s the real deal. Kira: A big deal, yeah. Matt: She’s such a huge deal in this space. So this is such a cool episode. There’s so many things in it that I really resonate with. I think the simplicity and clarity, what she says is also going to really resonate with a lot of the people listening today. Kira: All right. Yeah. Kim is a wonderful, she&#82

John Mulry (yes, you saw that right) joins us for the 256th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast. John is a direct marketing expert who was trained by Dan Kennedy. He’s the creator of Email Academy Pro and Expert Authority Formula. Currently, John’s the Director of Marketing for Todd Brown Marketing*. If you want to be seen as an expert in your field, this is the episode for you. Here’s how it goes down: The process of writing a book at supersonic speed. Bringing direct response marketing to different countries. Going from fitness expert to marketing master. How helping people can look different for everyone. Bridging the gap to help business owners connect on a deeper level with their audience. The key to being seen as the expert. How unplanned events and experiences can change your life immensely. Should every copywriter write a book? Finding joy in finding your first clients. The acquisition of new skills and how to accelerate your business. Do you need to be great at sales to be great at marketing? What it’s like being the Director of Marketing for Todd Brown. How to acquire new customers in a crowded market. Best practices for building a 3 part acquisition funnel. How to engineer your offer to get repeated stripe notifications. What is AOV and why it’s important for your funnel. The real job of copywriters. (Hint: it isn’t to write words.) Want to uplevel your marketing skills? Listen to the episode or read the transcript below. *Since recording John has transitioned into taking over as COO of Todd Browns Sister Company E5 Agency The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground E5 Nation Facebook Group Full Transcript: Rob: One of the things we love about being copywriters is that we’re not just hired to make our client’s words sound good, we’re hired to solve problems. But here’s the thing, clients don’t always understand that that’s what they’re asking us to do. They come to us with projects and ask things like, “Can you write my website or can you help with a case study or a sales page?” What they’re really asking for is help solving a bigger problem, help me sound professional or help me prove that I can do what I say I can do, or help me sell more products and make more money. The more we sell ourselves as experts in solving complex marketing problems, the more we’re able to work with great clients and earn more money. Today’s guest for The Copywriter Club Podcast is John Mulry. John is the Director of Marketing for MFA, that’s Todd Brown’s company, and he is focused on solving very complex marketing problems for Todd and for Todd’s clients. And what he’s shared in this interview may give you some ideas on how to do that for your own clients and in your own business. But before we get to our interview with John, good news, Kira is back. Hey, Kira. Kira: Hi. Hey, Rob. Good to be back. Rob: Yes. How have you been? It’s been a while. Kira: I’ve enjoyed the podcast interviews while I was away where every intro, I feel like you were like, “And Kira’s still on maternity leave.” I feel like towards the end it sounded like maybe there was a little bit more frustration in that over the last few episodes, but I’m back. Rob: I don’t think I was frustrated. If it sounded that way, I’m sorry then. Kira: Maybe it was just to me. But yeah, I’m happy to be back on the podcast. I’ve had a fun time listening to other copywriters speak on the podcast and add their commentary and their thoughts. I think it’s strengthened the podcast. So I feel like you don’t really need me here. I’m just going to leave right now. I don’t think you need me here at all. Rob: We definitely had more than one person offer to take your place in the future should you decide to make maternity leave permanent? So who knows? Kira: Tell me who they are, I will fight them. Rob: Well, we’ll see that for- Kira: They’ll hunt me down. Rob: Yeah, exactly. Kira: Rob, how do you feel like running the show over the last few months, I guess, what is your biggest takeaway from running the show, Sans, Kira and building the show in any way? Rob: It’s been fun. Obviously, I missed your insightful question asking when I’m doing interviews on my own, like the one that we’re going to be doing here in just a second, it’s just me and John talking. But it’s also fun to get insights from other people beyond you and me. I think that you and I have said a lot of things, we kind of repeat ourselves sometimes. There’s only so many ways that we think about niching or experiences that we have. And so it’s been fun adding some additional voices and I think moving forward, that’s something that we’re going to continue to do. So it won’t

Jennifer Duann Fultz disrupts the status quo on the 255th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast. Jennifer is the founder and CEO of Chief Executive Auntie, a business aimed to teach WOC business owners how to make more money online through course creation. Interested in creating a better course experience for your students? Tune into the episode to find out how. It breaks down like this: The importance of promoting alternative and diverse voices. Money mindset and how it can affect your life (and business). The stories that are deeply rooted in us from the way we grow up. Why you don’t need to attract every single person into your course. (It’s okay to repel people.) How using your background can propel your business forward. The better way to create a course and guide students to an outcome. How to be the guide your students need and understand where they are coming from. Why you need to prime your students before they reach the next level. Customer research and the effect it has on your course creation. Increasing course completion rates and being selective on who joins your program. Building a lead magnet that will actually help your ideal prospects. Figuring out your strengths and not being tempted to try and do everything. The reality of passive income. (Is it even a thing?) Shifting from employee mindset to CEO mindset and knowing when it’s okay to step away. Being multi-passionate and creating structure to get things done. When it’s time to hire help in your business in order to avoid burnout. Become a better course creator by listening to the episode or checking out the transcript below.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Christy’s website Jennifer’s website   Full Transcript: Rob: A lot of copywriters buy courses, or write for course creators, or have created their own courses as part of their work. And lately, there seems to be a sense that courses may not be as easy to create and sell as they once were. Some course creators have been criticized for low completion rates. We’ve heard numbers as low as 4% of people buying courses that actually finish the course. Or they’re criticized for signing up students who shouldn’t be in a course in the first place. Our guest for the 255th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Jennifer Duann Fultz. And she knows a thing or two about creating and selling courses because that’s what she does in her business. So I asked her about these challenges and a lot more. But first, let me introduce my co-host for today, Christy Cegelski. Christy is a copywriter who specializes in copy that connects, captivates, and converts. She is a Think Tank member and host of her own podcast, The Captivate and Convert Podcast. I was lucky enough to be featured with Kira as a guest on that podcast. I think if I’m remembering right, it was Episode 29 right in there somewhere. Christy: Somewhere around there, yeah. Rob: Yeah, I think I’m like, one of two male guests that you’ve had in the runs of our site. I feel kind of lucky to be included amongst so many brilliant women. Christy: Yeah. Rob: But, yeah. Welcome, Christy. Thanks for joining. Christy: Well, thanks for having me. This is exciting. I’ve never been a co-host. Rob: Well, and now you are. So yeah, I mean, we can maybe make this permanent if it turns out well. Christy: Check. Rob: This is your audition. Christy: Check. Rob: I like it. If you want to know more about Christy, you can see her at christycegelski.com. Of course, subscribe to her podcast, The Captivate and Convert Podcast. She was actually a guest on our own podcast, Episode number 226. About what? That was probably five, six months ago now. Christy: Yeah. Rob: A really good interview about what you’ve done in your business and how your businesses has grown and developed from product marketing to what you do today, helping people actually connect with their clients. It’s a great interview. Christy: Thank you. I got a lot of messages about it. It’s funny because I totally felt like I bombed it, but hey, if somebody got something out of it, it’s all good. Rob: It definitely did not bomb. I’m excited to talk about Jennifer’s interview here in just a second. But before we get to that, let’s mention that this podcast is sponsored by the Copywriter Think Tank. That’s our mastermind for copywriters and other marketers who want to do more in their business. Maybe you’ve dreamed of stepping on stage or creating a new product or a podcast or a video channel or maybe you want to build an agency or a product company, or maybe you just want to become the best known copywriter in your niche, the person that high paying clients call because your name is the one that everyone in your industry knows. That’s the kind of thing that we focus on in the Think Tank.

For the 254th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast, Amisha Shrimanker hops on to talk all about her journey from order taker to CEO. Amisha is the founder of The Copy Crew and their focus is copy for online business coaches. As business owners, we don’t always give ourselves the permission to get things wrong, but Amisha looks at this from a different perspective. Here’s what we talk about: Writing copy without knowing you’re writing copy. Finding the right community to propel your business and skillset forward. How to write pitches that land you the job. The reality of beginner pricing. Do you need to settle? Going from order taker to 20k months in 18 months. Sending people to junior copywriters when they want to haggle. The pros and cons of being the order taker. Note: Learn all you can. The better way to land big clients. Why you need to document your copywriting process. How to get extra validation from your clients. (even if it doesn’t pay.) The reality of hustle and the benefits it can bring you in the long run. Getting the best case studies to showcase your work and results. Hiring someone to ask your client questions about you. Win-Win? Being on the other side of the interview. The interviewer becomes the interviewee. Getting the most out of job boards and paying for connections. How to do more than just “done for you” work. Why you shouldn’t let inexperience hold you back. Shifting your mindset from scarcity to abundance. How surrounding yourself with high-achieving people will propel you 10 steps forward. Building trust with your clients and demonstrating your expertise. When is enough learning, enough? Is it time to say no to more courses? Leveling up from skillbuilding to strategy-building. Can audits be profitable in your business? Hit the play button to listen to Amisha’s genius or read the transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Amisha’s website Nicole’s website   Full Transcript: Rob: If you’re a longtime listener to The Copywriter Club podcast, you’ve heard hundreds of copywriters share their stories over the last four years. And while we talk about the struggles that copywriters have from time to time, the big focus of our interviews is the success that so many copywriters are having in their businesses. Our guest today is Amisha Shrimanker. Amisha has a counter intuitive process for finding success. It’s all about choosing lots of ways to fail each week or each month, and then going after those failures with serious intensity. But the result isn’t failure, it’s actually success. And we can’t wait to share this interview with you in just a minute. But first, you’re still on maternity leave, and I want to introduce my co host for today, Nicole Morton. Nicole, how are you? Nicole: Good. Thank you so much for having me. This is such a treat. Rob: Yeah, this is going to be fun. So Nicole, for those of you who don’t know her, she’s a copywriter, brand strategist, really a creative genius. I know she doesn’t want to own that title. But it’s true. She’s a member of our think tank, and she’s been a longtime member of the copywriter underground, and she is the CEO, chief writer at the creatively named Nicole Morton Agency, so you can check her out there. And before we get to our interview with Amisha, this is the last time that I’m going to mention this for a while. But the Copywriter accelerator is open for two more days. If you’re listening as this episode drops, it will close tomorrow, midnight September 1st year 2021. And if you are looking for a program that will help you set your business on the right foundation moving forward so that you’re ready in 2022 for the success that you want to create in your business, if you need help with things like mindset and creating packages and the clients want to buy and processes that serve those clients and pricing those packages and branding and getting yourself out in front of the right clients, finding your X factor and so much more, then you’ll want to check out the Copywriteraccelerator.com, where you can still join this program for two more days. And if you’re listening after September 1st, we will be opening up the Copywriter accelerator again next year. Kira and I are actually working on adding some new and improved content. Everybody who joins this year will get all of that new and improved content next year, but the price will probably go up just depending on what we add. So check out the Copywriteraccelerator.com. Okay, let’s jump into our interview with Amisha starting with her story and how she became a copywriter. Amisha: I started my copywriting business in 2018. I was doing it before I even call myself a copywriter honestly. I had friends like peers who were business coaches because I wanted to be a busines

On the 253rd episode of The Copywriter Club podcast, Laura Briggs breaks down the foundational steps to catapulting your freelance business. Laura is a freelance writer and coach who helps aspiring and current entrepreneurs who are ready to live life on their own terms. Already have a successful business? You’ll hear concepts and ideas through a whole new lens. – Don’t miss this one. Here’s what we talk about: Humans biggest question: “What do I do with my life?” Balancing a full-time job and growing a side hustle business. The best way to use Upwork and break into the freelance writing world. Whether or not you need a website in the beginning. Pitching to clients on weekends through LinkedIn. Your first portfolio and what it needs to include. Landing a 50k ghostwriting book project through Upwork. The pros and cons of Upwork and using it to its fullest potential. Why you need to personalize your pitches. How to overcome the “new writer” syndrome. How retainer projects help you with income projections and how to position yourself to secure the deal. Building your dream work schedule. When you should raise your prices. (and when you shouldn’t.) Creating a writing process that works best for you and your creative genius. Setting boundaries and tuning into the red flags. How to make decisions as a CEO and become an empowered business owner. Sales calls and being okay with the silence. What most freelancers are doing wrong and how to fix it. When you know you’re ready to level up. Delegating to others and creating time and space in your business. Creating a nonprofit around your core values. Offering services that are in demand and match your personality. Check out the transcript below or hit that play button to listen in. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Betterbizacademy.com   Full Transcript: Rob: Being a successful freelance copywriter is about a lot more than just writing the right words for our clients. There are so many things to think about to do beyond the writing, things like finding clients, or pricing yourself effectively, setting up the right packages, things that our clients actually want to buy, and raising our prices as needed, figuring out retainers, project scope, all of that kind of stuff. Our guest for this episode of the Copywriter Club Podcast is Laura Briggs. Laura is known as The Freelance Coach. And in her business, like we do, she helps freelancers deal with these kinds of challenges. In a moment, we’re going to hear how she built her own successful business and then helping others to do the same thing. But first, let me introduce my co-host for today, since Kira is still on maternity leave, Jacob Suckow. Jacob is, I would call him an offer doctor. Jacob, I don’t know if you’ve got a better title for that or not, but he helps his clients really figure out their offers. Jacob: Awesome. Well, hey Rob, thanks for the introduction, I appreciate it. I don’t know if I’ve ever called myself an offer doctor, but I might have to steal that after today. Excited to be here with you today, excited to hear what Laura has got to say. Rob: Yeah. I’m looking forward to this conversation also. If you want to find out more about Jacob Suckow, you can find him at top-notchcopy.com, but don’t forget the dash. And one of the things, Jacob, I’m going to mention this, even though it’s not really live here, you’re playing around with this idea of a paid newsletter that you’re thinking about doing, talking about all the things about starting a successful solopreneur business. Maybe just give us like a one-liner for what that might turn into when it gets launched. Jacob: Yeah, sure. So there’s a big gap in content out there for people like us who are just building something on their own. And typically, we get a lot of really great feedback on everything except financials, sales, pipeline, and behind the curtain marketing and growth strategies. And so that’s what we’ll be doing, 100% behind the scenes, full transparency look into QuickBooks, my pipeline, client work, and everything that I’m doing that’s either working or not. Rob: That sounds really cool. I can’t wait to check it out when it goes live, we’ll keep everybody informed when it launches. So before we get to our interview with Laura, like last week, I’m going to switch things up just a little bit and talk about the Copywriter Accelerator. That’s because the Copywriter Accelerator, if we’ve timed this right, is actually opening up today. The accelerator itself is made up of eight modules, it takes about 16 weeks. We go through it not as a course, but as a program so that you’re going through with several other copywriters, figuring out things like business mindset, the kind of business that you want to build package

On the 252nd episode of The Copywriter Club podcast, we dive deep into courage with Heather Hubbard. After some unforeseen events and challenges, Heather shifted from powerful lawyer to powerful CEO of Simple Courage. Heather describes Simple Courage as more than a mantra but a mission and movement to both individual and collective change. Here’s how it all goes down: Why the drastic shift from lawyer to Simple Courage movement. What to do when we can’t get ideas out of our heads. Making major shifts and strides in the middle of a pandemic. Dealing with dysfunctional relationships and tragic life events and moving forward. Saving face and not being true to one’s self. The standards that are set by society and how to break them. Why being uncomfortable can be good and bad. How to choose or recreate your own stories. The 4 types of courage and changing between each. The difference between fearlessness and courage. Showing up brave because you have to rather than wanting to. How to figure out why we’re afraid of something in the first place. Why it’s important to stay curious and color your hair pink. Things we let slide because we think we’re being brave. Leaning into your values and taking a stand for what you believe. What we are actually afraid of happening when we have Simple Courage. How Simple Courage can work in your favor if you allow it to. The everyday effects of the different types of courage. Listen to the episode or read the podcast for inspiration on stepping into your own power.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Tamara’s website Simple Courage website Simple Courage podcast Heather’s program The Alter Ego Effect by Todd Herman   Full Transcript: Rob: What does being courageous mean to you? Is it being brave enough to run into a burning building to save someone? Is it standing up for what you believe in, or maybe standing up to protect others? Most of us grow up with the idea that courage is a good thing to have, but we’re not always courageous in the things that we do. Our guests for the 252nd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Heather Hubbard. She’s the founder of Simple Courage of movement that is helping people embrace courage and change their lives, and we think that you’re going to like what she has to share. But first, before we get to that, Kira is still on maternity leave. This is starting to feel to me like the never ending maternity leave. So I have my special guest hosts to help with some of the comments on this episode, Tamara Glick. Tamara is a copywriter, brand stylist, brand voice specialist, and so many things. She helps us with some of the stuff that we do in the think tank. Tamara, welcome to the show. Thanks for being here. Tamara: Thank you so much, Rob. Man, oh man, I am so excited about this conversation. This is the deep meaty stuff that I love. Forget the small talk, tell me about your biggest fear and your deepest secret, I’m a vault. That’s everything I want to know. So thank you so much for having me back for this one, Rob. Rob: You’re not getting my deepest secrets, but we’ll be talking about some other things on the show. Tamara: That’s okay. Rob: And also just as a reminder, Tamara has actually been on the show as a guest before, that’s episode number 142 of The Copywriter Club Podcast. If you want to listen to what she shared there, all about like style, copy style, all of that stuff. It was really good interview, so check that out. Before we get into our interview with Heather though, I’m going to switch things up a little bit and instead of telling you about The Copywriter Think Tank, which of course is still available. If you’re interested, go to copywriterthinktank.com, but next week we are opening up The Copywriter Accelerator, and this is our 16-week program. We only do it twice a year. This is the last time that we’re doing it this year. It opens up next week. It’s eight modules, talking about things like mindset packages, processes, pricing, branding, getting yourself in front of the right clients, x-factor, all of the things that lay the foundation for a successful business. It’s not a course, it’s a program that you go through with a community of other copywriters and as we’ll be sharing in the free Facebook group and in other places, there have been some amazing copywriters who’ve gone through that program and just done really incredible things with their business. And so if you are interested in hearing more about The Copywriter Accelerator, go to thecopywriteraccelerator.com, get on the wait list. This next week there’ll be a webinar all about pricing. The webinar is free, so you can check the data out, learn a little bit more about the accelerator and see if it’s a fit for your business. If you’ve done any

On the 251st episode of The Copywriter Club podcast, we’re joined by none other than Laura Belgray. Laura is the founder of Talking Shrimp and co-creator of The Copy Cure with Marie Forleo. It’s been a few years since she’s been on the show, and in which time she’s done everything she said she wasn’t going to do in her business. No matter where you are in your copywriting, you’ll hear countless insights you can apply to your own business. Ready to take notes? How to go from copywriter for clients to being a copywriter for yourself. What hiring team members can do for you and your business growth. (Hint: explode) The shift from being someone’s copywriter to stepping into your own voice and brand. Becoming the course creator and getting paid to write emails to your list. Igniting your brand so people know you exist. Why you need to start pitching yourself (yesterday). Envisioning what you truly want in your business and what it will take to get there. Laura’s website transformation and creating her own museum for people to take pictures with. (It’s the end of an era!) Hiring a coach to help with pivots and rebrands. Emailing your list 3x a week. Should you do it? How sharing your content and articles can prove to build your authority. — As long as it’s shareable. The fastest way to learn new information or processes. What you should be telling your list to create meaningful connections and to dig deeper into their wants and needs. The myths of managing a team. Why you need to be super clear and honest with your list about what your purpose is. How to boost your creativity when the wheels aren’t turning. The raw and real truth of writing a book. — You may need to quiet your ego. How many copywriters of today are becoming shadows and what you can do to ensure it doesn’t happen to you. The future of copywriting and what absolutely has got to go. What Laura does to make money by being herself (and while sitting on her couch.) There are many ways to create a successful copywriting business, and Laura’s method is one worth listening to. Press play or check out the transcript below.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Laura’s first episode Laura’s website Laura’s subject line resource Full Transcript: Rob: A lot can change in three years. Heck, if the last year has taught us anything, it’s that things can change quickly, and they change faster than we think. Our guest for this episode is Laura Belgray, and Laura was on our podcast a little over three years ago. That was episode 15, where she talked about the kind of business that she had, and she talked about a lot of things that she wasn’t even interested in doing. Now, three years later, that’s all changed. She’s built the business that she said she didn’t want, and she loves it. So we’re going to get into the details of that change, and what Laura has done with her business. But first, let me introduce my co-host for today, copywriter and launch strategist, Brittany McBean. Welcome, Brittany. Brittany: Thanks, thanks for having me. I’ve told you that my life goal is to be Kira when I grow up, so now I’m just one step closer. Rob: Yeah, right, if Kira decides not to come back, you can just stay. Brittany: I’m taking her spot, watch out. Rob: Exactly. You’ve been warned Kira. I’m excited to have Brittany here to share her thoughts about what we chatted with Laura today. But before we get to that interview and to the things that we want to share, this is your weekly reminder that this episode of The Copywriter Club podcast is brought to you by The Copywriter Think Tank. That’s our mastermind for copywriters and marketers who are doing some pretty big things in their business, becoming better copywriters, creating products, maybe creating things like video shows, like what Brittany has on YouTube, podcasts, even building agencies, product companies. If you want to do something interesting like that in your business, and become the person that high-paying clients call because you’re the person that they know, that’s what we help copywriters do in the think tank. To learn more, visit copywriterthinktank.com so that we can chat about whether it’s a fit for you. Okay. So let’s jump into our interview with Laura Belgray, and find out more about her business and what’s changed. Brittany: What have you been doing since we spoke to you on episode 15? Four and a half years ago. Laura: Four and a half years ago, right. We just established that was 2017. And I mean so much, like my business was totally different then, which I guess we’ll get into, we can get into it right now, so back then we talked about copywriting for clients and that’s what I was doing and that’s all that I was doing. Now I don’t do that anymore, so my business looks totally d

On the 250th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast (250 episodes?! Get out of here!), we’ve got a few things in store. Have you ever wondered what other copywriters are charging for their deliverables? Today, we’re giving you a breakdown. We’re also joined by a few special guests, so be sure to listen to what it’s all about. 250th episode breakdown: What other copywriters are charging for sales pages at different levels in their businesses. The median and averages of copywriter yearly incomes. Why experience doesn’t have to be the only factor when you’re ready to up your prices. Can you actually charge 45k for a sales page? Kira and baby Homer’s guest appearance. (Homer’s first podcast interview.) How new additions to the home can create a new dynamic in the household. (Even Kira’s cat has been needy as of late.) Creating new boundaries with a new baby and how having a team can be beneficial. Kira and Rob’s strengths when it comes to The Copywriter Club business. What the Accelerator is and who it’s good for. Gaining clarity and confidence in your business journey. Navigating how you should find your ideal clients and getting super clear on your systems and processes. Finding a community that is supportive and will lend a hand when you need one. Why Kira is the best at finding what makes you weird. (She loves to use questions.) How to begin focusing on what you really love to write. Accountability groups and why they’re vital to leveling up your business. When you should raise your prices and not feel like an imposter. Building your business at your own pace and your own way. Ready to start charging your worth? Tune into the episode. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Think Tank The Copywriter Accelerator The Ultimate Copywriter Salary Guide Full Transcript: Transcript is underway…

We interviewed Aly Goulet for the 249th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast. Aly is a SaaS copywriter and content strategist. She started her content writing business while still in college, and took it all the way when she graduated. By using her cold pitch method, she’s been able to book clients in her niche and she breaks down how she made it happen in this episode. Here’s the rundown: The scrappy method and when it may be time to start investing in your business and skill set growth. Skyrocketing and hitting goals in your business in 1 year. How many cold pitches you should send a day if you want to find clients fast. Why you should actually narrow in the type of clients you want to work with. What to include in your monthly retainers and how you should go about pricing them. When your cold pitches should be long or short and why. Perfecting your project management process, so you don’t get lost in all the moving pieces of retainer deliverables. How even copywriters need automations to keep up with their projects and save time. What you can start doing to get out of feast and famine mode. The science of connecting with people on LinkedIn. (Plus, your new cold pitch message.) The quickest, easiest way to become visible online. Why you shouldn’t put your own business on the backburner. (Hint: You won’t forget about your clients.) What happens after you start hitting your income goals. What’s next? Do’s and don’t of creating an epic portfolio. The newest WordPress plugin to make building out your portfolio easier. (You’re the best, Aly!) How the Think Tank has helped in reaching her goals in her business. How thinking of your business as an asset will propel you forward tenfold. If you’re tired of the merry-go-round of gaining clients, tune into this episode or check out the transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Think Tank Brandon’s episode Brandon’s website Aly’s website Aly’s premium portfolio plugin Full Transcript: Rob: If you’re a regular listener to this podcast, you no doubt have noticed the many differences in how copywriters make their living. Most of us earn money from writing content or copy, but still structure our businesses differently. Some charge by project, others work on retainers, and still others offer day rates and VIP days. But that’s just the beginning in the differences that we have as copywriters. Some copywriters consult on funnels and offers that audit websites and campaigns. Some structure their work so that they earn royalties, when a promotion does well. And still others create their own products to sell. Today’s guest on the podcast is Aly Goulet. She’s tried several of these approaches, very successfully, and recently launched a WordPress plugin to help copywriters show off their best work. We’ll talk more about that in a minute. But first I need to introduce my guest host for this episode, Brandon Burton. Brandon is a copywriter and a brand voice strategist, and he is also the community manager for the Copywriter Club, Facebook groups. Brandon, welcome to this episode. Brandon: Thanks for having me, Rob. I really appreciate it. Rob: Yeah, of course. So, before we get to all of this other stuff, just really quickly, not only do you manage our communities on Facebook, but you have your own community. Just take a second to tell us a little bit about that. Brandon: Yeah. I started a community called Our Children’s World, quite recently. And yeah, it’s just helping parents tackle the reality in the next few years and helping us raise children who can survive in it and thrive in it. Rob: Awesome. And you have a couple of young kids yourself, so you’re like a man deep in it. Brandon: Yeah. Yeah, like yourself. Yeah. I’ve got free. Yeah, they definitely made me realize this conversation we’re having. Rob: Awesome. And if after listening to this episode, if you like what you’ve heard from Brandon, check out episode number 215 of the Copywriter Club Podcast, he was our guest for that episode and talked a little bit about his approach to Brand Voice and some of the stuff that he does for us. Again, thanks Brandon for joining me for some of the additional comments in this episode. Before we get to Aly Goulet, and our interview with her, I want to just quickly mention the Copywriter Think Tank, that’s our mastermind for copywriters and other marketers who want to do more in their business and their work, whether that’s creating a product or a podcast, or a video show, whether you want to build an agency, product company, like what Aly is building. Maybe you want to become just the best copywriter in your niche. That’s the kind of stuff that we focus on with the members of the Copywriter Think Tank. If you’d like to learn more about how you can join, we promise no hard sell, just information, visit copywrit

Dayana Mayfield joins The Copywriter Club podcast for the 248th episode. Dayana is a SaaS copywriter who focuses on SEO and conversions. After deciding to pursue writing as a career to inspire her daughter to follow her passions, she found copywriting. If you want to learn how to grow your business through networking and online platforms, this episode is for you. Here’s what we talk about: How copywriting and editing are completely different skill sets. Becoming the sole provider in a foreign country. What it takes to learn SEO copywriting and what the difference is. The pros of Upwork and going from $16 hr to $175 hr in 2 years. What you should do when you don’t have a copywriting portfolio. The better way to cold pitch and land new clients. How Dayana was able to save for 4 months of maternity leave in 1 year. Why you shouldn’t lower your standards when you need money fast. The future of copywriting. Is it still worth it? The benefits of verifying who you could potentially be working with. Misconceptions of the SaaS industry and why it could be the right niche for you. The proper way to vet your prospects. Why SEO is important and could keep your lead list hot and ready. Navigating manic bipolar disorder and having a successful business. How PR and SEO go hand in hand and why you need both in your business. Being multi-passionate and starting a second business. The difference between a vertical and horizontal niche. How you can find leads via podcasts and backlinks. What actually happens when you begin to niche down and position yourself as the expert. Whether you’re reading the transcript or listening in, you won’t want to miss this episode. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Think Tank Tiffany’s website Dayana’s website Full Transcript: Rob: There’s more than one approach to choosing a niche, and the most common of course is choosing an industry to specialize in, but there are other approaches too like choosing a particular deliverable or a kind of project that you work on. That’s generally called horizontal niching. We’ve even seen copywriters niche by the customer that they work with. Our guest for this episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Dayana Mayfield, and she told us about how she’s adding a second horizontal niche to her business. We’re going to let her tell you all about it in just a minute, but first I want to introduce my guest host for this episode. That’s Tiffany Ingle. Hey, Tiffany. Tiffany: Hi, Rob. Rob: How’s it going? Tiffany: It’s going pretty well. Thank you for having me here. I’m really happy to sit down and have this conversation with you today. Rob: Yeah, this is awesome. So Tiffany is a conversion copywriter. She’s worked in the nonprofit sector I think for like seven years before starting her own business. She writes conversion copy and she has a newsletter called Authenticity is Addictive. If you want to be on that or receive that, go to Tiffany’s website and sign up. Before we talk with Dayana, this episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Think Tank. That’s our mastermind for copywriters and other marketers who want to do more in their business and their work. Maybe you have dreamed about creating a product or a podcast, or maybe you’ve thought about maybe starting an agency or a product company. Maybe you want to become the best-known copywriter in your niche, the person that high paying clients are always looking out for. That’s the kind of thing that we help copywriters do in the Think Tank. Tiffany is actually a member of the Think Tank, a new member. To learn more, visit copywriterthinktank.com, and maybe you can join this extraordinary group of business owners too. So let’s jump into our interview with Dayana and find out more about her business and the clients that she works with. Kira: All right, so let’s kick off with your story. How did you end up as a SaaS copywriter, conversion copywriter, PR expert, all the things? Dayana: Yeah. So about six years ago, I was a stay-at-home mom and I had had my first daughter. And now this is a controversial opinion, but I didn’t want to just teach a daughter. This is what we do. We hope we marry a nice engineer that could pay all the bills. My sister-in-law gets pissed at me for saying that, but I was like, I didn’t want to teach her. Like what is that teaching her? Right? It’s like how is she going to have a good life if she doesn’t find a good guy? So I was like, “Okay, I really got to figure this money thing out.” And when I had graduated college in 2009, it was the recession. I come from a blue collar family. My dad’s a motorcycle salesman. I had no understanding of like talent. Like that businesses hire talent and that talent could be creative and you could make money for being cr

Nicole Piper is our guest for the 247th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast. Nicole is a copywriter and direct response marketer. She started her career as a global brand development strategist working for companies such as Nickelodeon, MTV, and Pokemon. Now she focuses on writing for the health and wellness space. Here’s what we talk about: Going through a divorce and losing your 6-figure job. Falling upon copy courses and becoming energized with everything you’re consuming. When you might be ready to go all in and give it your best shot. How following your gut can open up the doors to 100’s of possibilities. Feeling unsure about your copy and it falling into the hands of Kevin Rogers. Becoming Parris Lampropoulos’ cub and gaining an incredible and surreal experience. Manifesting two clients in one week by getting out of your own way. How to get comfortable with not seeing the entire path ahead of you. The secret to the fastest growth and success. Hint: It’s not by doing it alone. What you can learn from Nickelodeon’s marketing angle. How to find the best humans in the world who are collaborative rather than competitive. When it may be the right time to hire a content strategist. The 4 P’s and how it can bring your message to life. Where most copywriters mess up when making big promises. Why you should have someone read your copy out loud to you. The better way to break into the health and wellness space. The challenge of finding the right people for the job. The truth about being an expert to your client. The difference between prevalence and intensity is the solution to finding your ideal client. Listen to the episode below or read it in the show notes. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Think Tank Piper’s website Piper’s health coaching website Grace’s website Full Transcript: Rob: There’s this idea made popular by the movie, The Secret, that you can manifest things into your life simply by thinking about them. Actually, that’s a bit of a simplification of the idea of manifesting, but I think you get the idea. By focusing on things like money or say a nice home or great clients, you actually attract those kinds of things into your life. Now, we’re not so sure that it’s that simple. In fact, I think I’m on record as saying that it doesn’t actually work that way, but we do think that when you work hard and you focus on the right things, good stuff generally happens to you and your business. Our guest for this episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is copywriter, Nicole Piper. Nicole is a great example of this manifesting process, attracting opportunity and clients by getting to work and focusing on what she really wanted to happen in a situation where many of us would probably do the opposite. We’ll let Nicole share her story in a moment. But first, before we get to that, I want to just introduce the Copywriter Think Tank that’s the sponsor for this episode, and that’s our mastermind for copywriters and other marketers who want to do more in their business and their work. Maybe you’ve dreamed of creating a product or a podcast or building an agency, or a product company, or anything else beyond just simply writing for clients, billing by the penny or by the hour. If you want to become the best known copywriter in your niche, that’s the kind of thing that we do in the Copywriter Think Tank. And because Kira is still on maternity leave, my guest host for today is Grace Baldwin. Grace is a member of the Think Tank. Grace, you can share a line or two about your experience, and just tell us what you think about that. Grace: Sure. Hi everybody. Yeah, my name is Grace Baldwin, I am a B2B SaaS copywriter currently working in-house in the company. But yeah, I’m part of the Think Tank and it’s been a pretty phenomenal experience, and I’m super excited to be here. Rob: We’ll talk more about surrounding yourself with community and that kind of thing in this interview, but if you’re interested in learning more about the Think Tank, go to copywriterthinktank.com, and maybe you could join this extraordinary group of business owners as well. Again, Grace, you can find Grace at heygracebaldwin.com. As she mentioned, she’s an in-house copywriter and a SaaS copywriter. She’s made amazing leaps forward in her business over the last couple of months, and so I’m thrilled to have you, Grace, to be my co-host for, at least the comments and the interjections here in this episode. Grace: So happy to be here. Rob: Okay. Let’s jump into our interview with Nicole and find out more about her business, the clients she works with and her story. Nicole: Okay. Yeah, that’s actually … It was like cosmic or divine. That’s what I like to say when I look back on it, because I’ve been in the corpor

On the 246th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast, we’re joined by one of our newest Think Tank members, Hira Usama. Hira is a social media manager and content strategist. Hira began her freelance journey on Upwork writing e-books and immensely undercharging. She now takes clients’ social media platforms from ghost town to binge-worthy. Here’s what we talk about: Going from a content creator for an agency to freelance work. Writing 4 e-books in one month while being pregnant and finding The Copywriter Club. How she got hired at 17 years old and was published in a magazine. How to effectively use online social platforms to expand your reach. The benefits of outbound engagement and using hashtags to connect with the right people. Social media strategy for the person who just doesn’t have the time or energy for engagement. Starting the process of working with a new client and what it’s like to work with Kira Hug. How to create effective content pillars and even mix in aspects of your life on social media. (Is there a method to the madness?) The beauty and the struggle of the hustle game. The truth about what leads to conversions. Why we need to be social on social media. (Shocking, huh?) How Hira uses Gary Vee in her approach to natural social media strategy. Copywriters who have got a killer approach to socials and what we can learn from observing. Why you absolutely need to be using swipe files. Realizing that no one is going to be as excited about your posts are you. The challenges of working on the other side of the world as your clients. Tips on working with business owners when there may be a language barrier. Creating a community for women who don’t have the means to work a standard 9-5. The struggles of building your own brand when you’re focused on so many others. (the life of a service provider.) If you want to ramp up your social media strategy and build a stronger online presence, listen to the episode or check out the transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Think Tank Hira’s website Tamara’s website Full Transcript: Rob: For most copywriters and content writers, writing comes pretty naturally to us, and that’s the one big reason that we all seem to choose this profession in the first place. There are a few exceptions who learn copywriting as a means to do something else, but for most of us, we’re pretty good writers and that’s why we are writers as a profession. But it takes a lot more than the ability to write to start a successful copywriting business. To do that, you have to hustle and add the skills to help you solve problems for your clients. Today’s guests on The Copywriter Club Podcast is Hira Usama. That’s exactly what she did from landing her first content gig at age 17, to doing work today as a social media strategist. She’s always learning and trying new things, everything from SEO to social media. In this interview, Hira shares exactly what she did to grow a successful business while working from Asia as a new parent. But before we get to that, let me introduce my guest, I guess, kind of host. Since Kira asked some of the questions, she was here when we recorded. But Kira is on maternity leave spending some time with her new baby, and my guests interjector, commenter, whatever we want to call it, is Tamara Glick. Say hi, Tamara. Tamara: Hello, Rob. How are you? Rob: It’s good. I’m thrilled to have you joining us. Those of you who maybe are longtime listeners to the podcast know that we interviewed Tamara on episode 142. Tamara is a fashion stylist and also a content and brand stylist. She also serves her clients as a fractional CMO, helping them figure out their customer journeys and how they can improve their offers and all kinds of different things. You can find her at Tamaraglick.com, and I’m just happy to have somebody else talking about some of the stuff that we learned while we interviewed Hira. Tamara: This was such a fascinating interview. I’m really excited to be here. Thanks for having me. Rob: Yeah, of course. Before we hear what Hira has to say, this podcast episode is brought to you by the Copywriter Think Tank. Now, Tamara, you’re actually in the Think Tank. You’ve worked with us in the Think Tank for a long time. We’ve talked about the Think Tank over and over, just promoting it, whatever. Give me your 30-second thoughts on the Think Tank. Tamara: Oh my goodness. The Think Tank to me is such an ideal incubator for someone who has built a business that they’re really excited about, and that does have legs and they’re confident that it does but they’re not sure what is going to happen next. You might be able to see the next step, but maybe not the staircase, and that’s totally okay because you need to have people around you who can support your vision, help

Eman Ismail is our guest for the 245th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast. Eman is an email copywriter who has quickly become a go-to expert for all things email copy. Eman made the transition from feast or famine freelancer to CEO by implementing VIP days into her business. If you want to make the switch to VIP days and day rates, don’t miss this episode. Here is what else we cover: Going from charity worker to charity freelancer. The difficulties of being a mom and owning a business. How to let your network know what you do in a way that’s not uncomfortable. Shifting niches and how to attract your ideal customer. The fastest way to level up your freelance business. When being booked out doesn’t mean paying the bills. Hitting the first 5k month and shifting your mindset to get out of feast or famine mode. How niching down can be terrifying but bring in more clients than ever before. When to increase your prices and invest in yourself. The secret to making the most out of your investments. The number one way to maximize all of the coaching and courses you go through. How to shift from a project-based model to a VIP day model. The better way to structure VIP days to allow for maximum results. Why you should hire someone for the service you provide. Perfecting your systems and processes and learning from others. Finding your ideal work schedule and allowing enough time for research. Selecting an online platform where you can find your ideal clients. The importance of a marketing plan. Whether your a new copywriter or you’ve been in the copywriting space for awhile, you’ll get actionable advice on building your business. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Think Tank Eman’s website Copywriting resource guide Full Transcript: Rob: There’s no doubt that you’ve heard the phrase overnight success, and usually when people talk about this you’re saying that there’s no such thing. Success takes time, and finding it overnight is incredibly rare, if it happens at all. Today’s guest for The Copywriter Club Podcast is Eman Ismail, and Eman recently gave a talk at TCC(N)IRL, that’s our event, about how she went from being completely unknown to being the name on everyone’s lips in less than a year, and during a year when we had a pandemic. It wasn’t overnight, but it happened incredibly fast, and she shared what she did to make that happen, partly in this interview and also in that presentation, available with the IRL recordings. But before we talk to Eman, let’s talk to you just a little bit about the Copywriter Think Tank, that’s our mastermind for copywriters and other marketers who want to do more in their business and their work, whether you want to build a more robust copywriting business with better clients and better projects, and of course better way, whether you want to add on something like a podcast, or a course, or something like that, or even if you want to build a mini agency or some other kind of business model that you’ve been thinking about. Those are the kinds of things that the people in the Copywriter Think Tank are doing all the time. If you’re ready to surround yourself with people who are thinking bigger about their business, then you should visit copywriterthinktank.com. Sign up for a quick information session. There’s no hard pitch, I promise, and maybe you can join this group of extraordinary business owners too. Now, before we jump into our conversation with Eman, you’ll notice that Kira is not here, and that’s because Kira is actually having a baby today. So, we unfortunately aren’t going to have Kira for the next couple of weeks as we talk about the things on the podcast, but I am going to bring in other people on our team, other copywriters that we know and want to be able to share some of their thoughts about the interviews. So, while it’s just me, Rob, today, starting next week we’ll introduce you to other copywriters as we talk about the things that our guests share on the podcast. So, having said that, let’s jump into our conversation with Eman and ask about her story and how she became a copywriter. Eman: I was managing the communications department for a local charity, and I was copywriting, I was doing a lot of marketing, creating their videos, and running their social media, which I hated but was part of the job description. As I was kind of doing this job, I realized that it was the copywriting side of this that I really loved, but didn’t know that you could get paid to do it. So, I kind of discovered that people will pay you to write their websites and write their emails. I also got really hooked on the idea of, because it was a charity, I send out an email and then money just floods in in response to this email, and that feeling was really addictiv

On the 244th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast, Sarah Greesonbach joins the show. After spending years in the classroom, she discovered the world of content marketing and e-commerce. Sarah is a prime example that you can be a highly paid and sought-after content writer when you position yourself as the expert and provide value time and time again. Here’s what we talk about: Writing an ebook all about life after teaching and jumping into the online business realm. Putting your all into your passion without boundaries. Creating an open door after getting laid off. Going from $20-30hr to $800 blog posts. How to make the shift in money and clientele. The reality of setting up your mindset for growth and success. Why you shouldn’t be shopping in your dream client’s wallet. The clear and cut process of writing white papers. What white papers are going for these days and how it can be your in with a potential client. How to showcase your authority right away and take the strategy lead. One simple skill that makes you more money. The shift from “perfect business” to realistic expectations of building a business. How to create buckets, so you can focus on the most important aspects of your business. Using LinkedIn to work with ongoing and steady clients. The difference between writing for B2B and B2C. The truth about being creative and understanding your capacity for scheduling it into your day. Want to create a profitable content writing business? Tune into the episode to learn how to make it happen. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Think Tank Sarah’s website Full Transcript: Rob: Over the past three years, we’ve interviewed hundreds of copywriters about their approach to business, their writing processes, their stories, and their tips for writing better copy. The vast majority of them describe themselves as copywriters, but today’s guest for the 244th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast Sarah Greesonbach calls herself a content writer. And I’ll be honest, I don’t see a lot of difference between copy and content. Both are designed to create and support a relationship between a company or brand and its customers. Both are part of the sales process, and both require a smart, strategic approach to make sure that they connect with the right people. We talked a lot about Sarah’s approach to content in this episode. And if you write and sell content as part of your business, you’re going to learn a lot from this interview. Kira: Before we hear what Sarah has to say, this podcast episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Think Tank. The Think Tank is our private mastermind for copywriters and other marketers who want to challenge each other, create multiple new revenue streams in their businesses, receive coaching from the two of us, and ultimately grow to six figures or more. Up until last year, we only opened the Think Tank once a year, but today we invite a few new members each month. If you’ve been looking for a mastermind to help you grow, visit copywriterthinktank.com to find out more. Rob: Okay, let’s jump into our interview with Sarah and find out more about her path to content writing. Sarah: Through that is Craigslist, it was pretty amazing. And this was a bit more popular back in the early 2010s when Craigslist was more of a thing. But my story actually starts, I got a master’s in arts and teaching, and I taught ninth grade English. And they basically chewed me up and spit me out in about two and a half years. I had reached ultimate burnout as a workaholic because the classroom will take everything you can give it, so I gave it everything. And I had to make my escape. And at that point, I hit that wall a lot of writers hit where it’s like, what else could I possibly do? I did the teaching, that’s not working for me. Where can I go? And so I just started Googling a lot of stuff about how people hire, what they look for in a candidate when they’re trying to fill a position. And that led me to the world of online blogging. And I wrote an ebook of life after teaching. I tried to start a website with that and a community, and I learned about e-commerce. And it just cracked open the world of the internet for me. So after that, I realized I could be a content writer because that’s a thing on the internet. And I used Craigslist and found a job that was closer to my husband. And they had a surprise for me, which was that I was laid off after about six months. So it felt like a lot of hope and then taken away, and then hope and then taken away. And while I was recovering from that and bingeing a lot of Netflix, I realized if that guy was selling my writing, so the marketing manager was doing the markup and selling that to companies as I know now, why couldn’t I do that? So I embraced my fear of the phone, started pitching and

On the 243rd episode of The Copywriter Club podcast, Yara Golden (dare we say it) drops gems you need to take note of. Yara Golden fell into the world of copywriting unexpectedly and said goodbye to her relationship coaching days. Now, she runs an agency of copywriters on the basis of storytelling. Here’s what we covered: How our greatest strengths can become our biggest weaknesses. When things seem to be falling apart, how do you pick up the pieces? The art of not being able to screw up being yourself. Transitioning from relationship coach to email copywriting magician. 3 lessons to improve yourself and the relationships you have with others. Going against the grain and breaking the copy “rules.” The #1 thing business owners need. How to strategically take on multiple clients at a time while managing a team. Reaching the epiphany step in the story selling method. The secret to being the character that your ideal client or customer wants to be. The better way to be customer-centric and close sales. The truth about negative inspiration and why it works for entrepreneurs. The fine line of taking in knowledge and closing off what makes us unique. How to revive an inactive email list. – Hint: Don’t say sorry. Are copy blocks the new day rates? Mentorships and helping others sparkle as they grow their businesses. The mindset shift between self-employed and entrepreneur. How to step into the spotlight when you don’t feel you deserve it. Taking the feelings of discomfort and using them to your full advantage. Working through a bad relationship with money and coming up with a strategic plan. The merging of projects and companies: How can this be done? How to write copy without VOC. This episode is a must-listen. If not, a must-read. Check out the transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Think Tank Yara’s website Full Transcript: Kira: Maybe the best thing about having a podcast is the opportunity to talk to so many smart and accomplished copywriters and marketing experts. Even the writers we talked to who are just starting out have unique ideas and perspectives. I think we both can safely say we feel lucky to talk to such talented people and get to learn while we’re doing it. And today’s guest for the 243rd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Yara Golden. And she shared some of her early struggles in her business, the way she packages and sells her services, the lessons she’s learned about boundaries and so much more. There are a ton of great takeaways in this episode. Rob: Before we talk to Yara, let’s talk to you, our listeners, about the Copywriter Think Tank. That’s our mastermind for copywriters and other marketers who want to do more in their business in their work. Maybe you’ve dreamed about creating a product, podcast, and you want to build a mini agency, like the one that Yara built, that she’s going to tell us about here in just a minute, or a product company. Maybe you want to become just the best copywriter in your industry or in your niche, or the person that has the high-paying clients and have them know that you’re the one that they should be calling. That’s the kind of thing that we help copywriters in the Copywriter Think Tank do. To learn more, visit copywriterthinktank.com, and maybe you can join this group of extraordinary business owners too. Kira: Before we get into the interview, we should note that after a couple of minutes, Rob’s internet went down. So, if you’re wondering why I hog the mic, and ask all the questions while Rob is quiet, while I didn’t kick him off the show, it’s just a little bit of trouble. Rob: Not yet. Kira: Not yet. So, let’s jump into our conversation with Yara and find out about her path into copywriting. Yara: Oh, my gosh, it’s such a great question because I have no idea. I think when I look back on my life, writing has always been a huge part of me, right? I tell people, I didn’t choose writing, writing chose me. And so, and at the end of 2013, I was going through a divorce. And it was really the first time in my life that I was going to be on my own, responsible for my own bills. And now, it wasn’t just me, it was me and my two kids, right? And so, I was very much thinking, how am I going to provide the life that I’m used to that I want without having to trade my time for it, right? And so, and I remember this conversation I had with a girlfriend back then. And she said, “You can always get a job at Nordstrom.” And I felt this fire ignite inside of me. And it was indignation, right, where I was like, “I don’t work at Nordstrom, I shop there.” And it’s nothing against retail, there’s any job that you want to do is perfectly fine, but it was that moment of knowing that I was capable of so much

Jared Macdonald is our guest for the 242nd episode of The Copywriter Club podcast. Jared is a copywriter whose focus is on user experience and customer research. It’s more than just the words we write, it’s about getting inside the heads of our ideal clients, so we can provide a product or service they truly need and want. Jared has proved his expertise in the area of serving his clients because he works with his clients for an average of 2.5 years. Here’s what else we talked about: Combining copy research with user experience and creating magic. Taking a life-threatening situation and turning it into a positive. Being okay with not having everything figured out in your business journey. There is no tiering to struggles and understanding we don’t know what someone is battling. How doing tasks in your business that don’t scale can end up leading to immense growth. Why over-delivering and building lasting client relationships go hand in hand. The steps to create points of excitement through every phase of a funnel. How to lengthen client relationships while respecting your own boundaries. The secret to being seen as the consultant from the beginning. Voice of customer research questions you need to include in your interview process. How to elevate your customer journey and provide the highest of experiences for your clients. Tools that can help you streamline and save you time. Getting to a place where YOU selectively choose your clients and make sure they’re worthy of a sales call. The benefits of working with retainer clients as a new copywriter. Best practices for networking when it can feel awkward and overwhelming. Hit that play button below or read the transcript if you want to improve your client experience. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Think Tank Jared’s website Jared’s workshop Full Transcript: Rob: One of the big challenges of running a copywriting business is finding clients. And unless you have retainers, once you find a good client and do the work, you’ve got to go back out there and find another client and then another. But what if the great clients that you have could stick with you, offering project after project month after month so you don’t have to spend your time prospecting and instead you can focus on problem solving. That’s what Jared McDonald, our guest for the 242nd episode of the Copywriter Club podcast does. His average client relationship lasts almost two and a half years. And we asked him what he does that makes his clients so happy and he shared a few ideas that any copywriter can implement into their business. Kira: Before we hear what Jared has to say, this podcast episode is brought to you by the Copywriter Think Tank mastermind, which Jared has participated in. The Think Tank is our private mastermind for copywriters and other marketers who want to challenge each other, create new revenue streams in their businesses, receive coaching from the two of us and ultimately grow to six figures or more. Up until last year, we only opened the Think Tank once a year, but today we invite a few new members each month. If you’ve been looking for a mastermind group to help you grow, visit copywriterthinktank.com to find out more. Rob: Okay. Let’s jump into our interview with Jared with this question about how he became a copywriter, a marketing consultant, and a UX strategist. Jared: Yeah, it’s a great question. I mean, from a story perspective, do you want the short version, long version? No. Rob: I want a medium version. Sort of in the middle. Jared: Medium, yeah? Medium details. Yeah. I mean, I started out in experiential marketing and doing sales as well. And then it really wasn’t until I went to… Wanted to go to school to be a diplomat in foreign languages for some odd reason. And then, as you both know, my kind of cancer diagnosis and that whole journey kind of led me out of that path and it couldn’t have been the best. It was literally the best thing because I managed to get a gig at a startup downtown Toronto, because I’m Canadian. And then started there, started content marketing, content strategy. And that’s kind of where the words, coming from a sports journalism background. Rob, you know I’m a big baseball fan. So I was covering baseball and hockey for a long time on the side. It wasn’t until I met you fine folks in the Copy Hackers mastermind where words can sell and the rest is kind of history. So moving from there, I loved the research side and I still do write copy periodically now, but not as much anymore. And I just love the research side. So at the same time, shortly after I met you both, I segued into user experience through the Nielsen Norman Group and really kind of saw a lot of overlaps with user experience and copy research. And then it kind of just blossomed from there. And since t

On the 241st episode of The Copywriter Club podcast, Daniel Lamb jumps on the show. Daniel Lamb is a copywriter who helps marketing agencies and B2B brands create conversions within their funnels. Throughout his time as a bartender and agency copywriter, he was able to take essential skills and blend them into his own agency. We also talked about: How to leverage opportunity when it’s sitting right in front of you. Connecting music and copywriting and how they both can evoke a response. The reality of creating your own luck. – Is it possible? What you gain when working with low-paying clients. Skills you gain while working for an agency. How to properly use data to get the best results for clients. Starting an agency “your way” after getting furloughed. The running cycle of looking for clients. – Feast and famine? Turning rubber bands and duck tape into smooth and clear systems. Tips on what to do when you’re fearful of diving into the stats. If you want to run an agency, then you need to be clear on one thing. How investing in relationships will propel you forward. Best practices for working with junior copywriters and the benefits of SOPs. The better way to manage a team and keep everything together. The simple practice that can really turn around procrastination. The secret to hacking your brain and mindset. The shift between taking care of your business and letting your business take care of you. The ins and out of hosting a podcast and surprises along the way. The first thing to consider when deciding on building a partnership. Thinking about starting an agency? Check out this episode or grab the transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s websiteRob’s websiteThe Copywriter Club Facebook GroupThe Copywriter UndergroundThink TankLinchpin by Seth Godin Who not how by Dan Sullivan Daniel’s website Daniel Lamb podcast – Ritual Linda’s episode Full Transcript: Transcript is underway…

Kira and Rob join each other as guests on the 240th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast. After hosting the show and being business partners for almost 5 years, they discuss tips and tools others can use to create more growth and avoid pitfalls along the way. Here’s how it breaks down: The 6 Mistakes Rob and Kira have made during their copywriting careers. Why being part of a community will skyrocket your career and build your skillset. How to be a problem solver for your clients, so they don’t have to guess and search for a solution. What Rob was doing before The Copywriter Club. Why this simple word will give you more power and create higher quality work. The value of testimonials and why they’ll grow your business. Being unaligned and the results it can bring. How to overcome comparisonitis when it keeps knocking at your door. Unveiling your unique mechanism and x-factor, so you can tap into your full-potential. How to successfully pull off a virtual event and create real community online. Building a team and focusing on the buckets that propel the business forward. Motivation and getting things done with a positive attitude. Why it’s vital to make time for things you love outside of your business. A better way to look at your business that will make all the difference in your sustainability and impact. Trends and patterns in the copywriting space that you should avoid. Books and podcasts Listen in on the podcast below or check out the transcript and give it a read. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Books and things we’re into right now: 21 Lessons for the 21st Century by Yuval Noah Harari The Highly Sensitive Person by Elaine N. Aron Run to Win by Stephanie Schriock The Vanishing Half by Brit Bennett You Get What You Pitch For by Anthony Sullivan The Catalyst by Jonah Berger A History of the World in 10 and a Half Chapters by Julian Barnes The Road Less Stupid by Keith J. Cunningham Frank Morgan Radio The Smartless podcast The Tim Ferriss Show Full Transcript: Kira: Hi, Rob. Rob: Hey, Kira. We were just saying that we should have written an intro for this episode, since we write those after we record. Now, our process is all changed and we’re just recording now this interview to go live next week actually. So I don’t know if we’re going to have time to do an intro or not. Kira: We don’t. Yeah. We’re anti shoulds, right? All the things you should do, let’s just not do it. We don’t… No more shoulds for us. So there is no intro. It’s just us, the two of us today. This is episode 240, right? Rob: Yeah. Episode 240 and every 10th episode or so we like to just jump on and just chat about different stuff, go guest free and this is all our stuff. If you don’t like that, you can skip to the next episode or listen to last week’s episode or stay tuned and you get a full dose of Kira and Rob. Kira: Yes. This is just us wild and free. So we are going to ask each other questions and just kind of interview each other because even though we talk frequently, we don’t always ask each other questions about business ideas, what else we’re doing so I think Rob and I just need more quality time together. We have a lot of time together, maybe we need more quality time together. Rob: There you go. Yeah. Finding out more. I mean, we’ve only been doing this for four years, right? So trying to understand who the other person is with I think- Kira: Who are you? Who is this person? So let’s kick it off with the first question. Rob, what are some mistakes that you’ve made in your copywriting business? I guess this could really be any mistake. It’s all fair game. But I was just thinking, I think frequently about mistakes I’ve made with projects with clients previously. I don’t know why they just kind of pop in to my mind at different times and every time I think about it, I’m like, oh, we should talk about that. We should share the stuff that doesn’t go as well or what we look back on and wish we could change. Because so often we talk about everything that is going well or all the things that we’ve done well, but let’s focus on some of those mistakes. Rob: Yeah. Let’s talk about all the things we do wrong. And we’re mostly talking about our own personal businesses here, the things that we do working one-on-one with clients. And as I was thinking about this earlier, there are a couple of things that come up, I think, for a lot of the copywriters that we talk to in the think tank when we’re coaching or even in the accelerator, the underground, these kinds of things, I’ve made the exact same mistakes that they do. And I think I’ve mentioned this one in particular several times, but the number one mistake that I made especially when I went out and started freelan

Full Transcript: Kira: Being a launch copywriter is not the easiest thing in the world. You’ve got to understand launch strategy, be able to write sales pages and emails, maybe even write webinar scripts, Facebook and Google or YouTube ads, and more, and often even just support your client through the launch experience, which can be a rollercoaster at times. It’s the kind of work that can easily lead to burnout if you’re not careful. Our guest for the 239th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is former Think Tank member, Kristina Shands. She joined us to talk all about the work involved with writing and strategizing for launches, and she talked about ways to make launches more enjoyable too. Rob: So, before we get to our interview with Kristina, we want to tell you that this podcast is brought to you by The Copywriter Think Tank. This is something we’ve been talking about quite a bit recently, and if you’re tired of hearing us promote the Think Tank, maybe just visit the copywriterthinktank.com and find out what it’s all about. It is our private mastermind for copywriters and other marketers who want to challenge each other, create new streams of revenue in their business, to receive coaching from the two of us, and ultimately grow your business to six figures or find more time for the things that you value, whatever your goals are, it’s designed to help you reach them. If you’ve been looking for a mastermind to help you grow as a copywriter or as a business owner, again, visit copywriterthinktank.com to find out more. Kira: Yeah, and we’re not going to stop talking about it anytime soon. So, sorry. Okay, let’s jump into our conversation with Kristina, as we usually do, with her story. Kristina: The roundabout way is how I got here. I spent a lot of time in college just doing random stuff, and then I discovered this thing called public relations, and I figured out I could write pretty well. So, I got a degree in public relations and worked for nonprofits, and then one day, I came in, and my boss said, “Our grant isn’t approved for next year, you’re the only person that I can let go, and sorry.” And so, I was like, “Oh, okay.” So, I spent a year working with other fundraising coaches, worked as a grant writer. I’ve taught fundraising to local nonprofits, and then I worked with graphic designers. And I had some friends that owned a web company, and I had no idea what I was doing, but I knew I could write. I’d still at this point didn’t know what copywriting was, I just knew I could write scripts and I could write stuff. Had no direction whatsoever. And then ended up finding out what internet marketing was, and got into that world, studied with some of the first, Frank Kern, sort of those types of copier, those types of internet marketers. And then became a VA, discovered launching from a client, came into her company as a junior copywriter, and that was when I was like, “Oh, wait, there’s a science behind copywriting. It’s not just writing words randomly and asking someone to do something, there’s actually a formula and science and metrics and things that I can actually study.” And then from there, it became a really dive into what it takes to be a real copywriter, how to become a better copywriter, about storytelling. And because my client was doing a lots of launches, I just got to study with her and watch her team do launches. From there, I just went on and started working with other friends and coaches and found my way through the maze. I’ve just been really lucky to get really great referrals and learning as I go and studying, and then found my way here. Long story short, I happened into it, and I’m really glad I did. Rob: So, Kristina, I’m curious, going back to PR days, fundraising days, when you started mentioning that, I’m like, “Okay, how do you fundraise? What are the secrets to fundraising?” Because when you’re offering somebody a product to sell or to buy, obviously, I’m going to give you money and I’m going to get something in return. But with fundraising, I’m going to give you money and maybe I’m going to get a few nice feelings in return or what, how do you make that work and be successful? Spill the secrets. Kristina: It is absolutely the same thing. It’s all about a feeling. So, you think we’re selling a product, and you’re not, you’re selling a solution, as a fundraiser. And I worked for environmental companies in a state that’s not known for environmental friendliness. I worked with clean energy and clean water groups. And so, trust-selling clean water to someone who is in a state where we’ve got tons of rain and dams and lakes that we can swim in year round, not year round, it gets cold here, but it’s all about a feeling, it’s all a

On the 239th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast, we’re joined by Kristina Shands, Copywriter and Launch Strategist. Kristina took her background in nonprofit and Public Relations and has been able to transform her clients’ businesses through the launch of their products and services. If you’re somebody who’s been dabbling in the launch world, and you want to increase the experience you provide your clients, this episode is a must-listen. We also talked about: How launching has changed and how the “what” has stayed the same. Giving people what they need to make an empowered decision by listening to what they have to say. How to hold space for your clients during a launch when launching can be high-energy and demanding. The strategy you can provide for your clients, so they don’t feel they have to do it all. The better way to have a killer launch and not get burned out. The easiest way to set reasonable standards and expectations for clients. The benefit to asking specific future pacing questions to prospects. How to implement love languages and human design into your business. The #1 component of being a better business owner and entrepreneur. Why it’s important to honor your energy management and the effects it has on your day. The secret to adding self-care into your launch strategy and why it needs to be a must. The right way to go down a rabbit hole and make it a beneficial use of your time. How learning something new can be self-sabotaging and impractical. Jumping ahead in your personal and business growth, so you can be “lucky.” The element you need to be part of the persuasion process. How to get off the “hustle” cycle and learn to trust the journey and opportunities that will come with time. Launching can be exhausting, but it doesn’t have to be. Listen in on this episode or check out the transcript here.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Kristina’s website Full Podcast Episode #239 Transcript

This week on The Copywriter Club podcast, Marietta Gentles Crawford drops the secrets to standing out on LinkedIn without changing who you are. Marietta is a Brand Strategist and LinkedIn expert whose focus is on growing a strong personal presence *like a real human.* Amp up your personal brand and LinkedIn profile by taking notes and following along. We also covered: The once upon a time of an about section. (Hint: It was called a summary section.) How to support the authority of your brand. Pulling quality traits from every experience you’ve had and why it’s highly-valuable to your clients. Why you should never have to chase your audience, and instead, keep them knocking at your door. What not to do on LinkedIn, so you can avoid being the pushy salesperson online. Why you shouldn’t change who you are from platform to platform. – Your voice should be the same everywhere you go. The secret to pitching to large businesses and landing the gig. LinkedIn for slackers 101 – Do more with less. How to turn your LinkedIn profile into a client lead magnet. Why LinkedIn is tried, tested, and true for growth and authority. The ins and outs of writing for yourself and why we tend to lose the clarity that we see in other people. The importance of visibility and becoming a highly sought-after copywriter. (People buy from who they know exists.) Why you shouldn’t chase squirrels and give yourself a break instead. How to structure your days for maximum productivity as a parent. The mistakes of underestimating how long a project will take and taking on projects just for the money. Defining what growth means for YOU, and why you need to run your business like a marathon. How to create more than just financial goals, plus the power of creating mistakes. Hit the play button and soak up the brilliance that is Marietta. Prefer to read? Check out the transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show:   Marietta’s Website Marietta’s LinkedIn guide Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Think Tank Bree’s Episode Dave’s Episode Selena’s Episode     Full Transcript: Rob: Is running a business, feel like a race against your competition or a race against yourself. You find yourself setting bigger goals, or working harder, and doing more only to figure out that you need to slow down and choose, maybe, a different race. Sometimes we chase the wrong goals, stuff like 10K a month, or six figure years, maybe even wanting to be a million dollar copywriter and our guests for the 238 episode of the Copywriter Club Podcast is personal brand strategist, Marietta Gentles Crawford. She compared her own business to running a race as we talked to her and she shared a lot of, really, good ideas for using LinkedIn more effectively. Kira: Before we hear what Marietta has to share with us, this podcast episode is brought to you by the Copywriter Think Tank. The Think Tank is a private mastermind for copywriters and other marketers who want to challenge each other, create new revenue streams in their businesses, receive coaching from the two of us and ultimately grow to six figures or more. Up until last year, we only opened a Think Tank once a year, but today we invite a few new members each quarter. If you’ve been looking for a mastermind to help you grow, go to copywriterthinktank.com to learn more. Rob: Okay. So, let’s jump into our interview with Marietta with a first question about how she became a brand strategist and a LinkedIn specialist. Kira: Okay. So, Marietta, we’d love to start with your story. How did you end up as a personal brand strategist and LinkedIn expert? Marietta Gentles Crawford: I really stumbled into it, to be honest. I was an entrepreneur as I call myself, I was working within different companies as a technical writer and trainer, and I usually ended up hated my jobs and felt like I wanted to make more money, or I wasn’t getting promoted, so I became what was called a job hopper at that time. And I was writing my resumes, and going through interviews, and through the whole interviewing process while I was trying to ruin my career, I realized that it was my communication skills that really allowed me to pivot in so many different directions from where I went to school. I graduated with a degree in English and I was able to translate my skills into accounting, and then to pharmaceutical, to retail, to education, all over place. And so, I realized through the process that it was less about my skills and more about the qualities that people liked about me, why they would hire me. And I realized that it was this whole thing at that time, we’re talking about 10 years ago, over 10 years ago, that was called branding. So that’s how I evolved into the whole process, because I became so great at it I started doing it for other people and charging, and that’s how I started on my business as a side hustle,

Dave Ruel joins us for the 237th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Dave is a serial entrepreneur and best-selling author of the book, “Done by Noon.” There’s an ongoing need to get more done in less time, and Dave paves the way to do just that. Whether it’s working fewer hours, finding a work-life balance, or you just need more direction when it comes to productivity, this episode is a must-listen. Here’s what we talked about: • The plus side to bodybuilding and fitness and how it can be applied to business. • How to manage discipline as a business owner, so you can achieve more in less time. • The Effic method. What is it and how can you apply this to your life? • Working hard leads to more success right? Not quite. It’s about working the right way. • The better way to plan out goals and reach them. • Why you need buckets in your business. • How to look at your tasks from a different perspective and minimize urgency. • The 4 types of tasks you need to implement into your life and business. • What energy management can do for you. • Narrowing down the most important things when everything seems top of the to do list. • Creating the fine line between urgent and important. • How small things compound over time to make the greatest success. • 5 elements to better habits and a better morning routine. • The quickest, easiest way to get more done. • Why you need to measure discipline over time and cut yourself some slack along the way. Habits, discipline, and energy management are key components to a successful business. Hit the play button or check out the transcript to absorb it all.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show:   Done By Noon by Dave Ruel Dave’s Website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Think Tank   Full Transcript: Kira: How often do you get to the end of your day and think, “I was busy, but did I really get anything done?” Do you ever look back over the last month or even the last quarter and wonder why you don’t have time for the big things you want to do in your business or your life? Maybe the problem isn’t our calendar or our to-do list. Maybe the problem has to do with our approach to managing our time and our energy levels. Today’s guest for the 237th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Dave Ruel. Dave is a former bodybuilder who realized that his approach to exercise might be a good way to approach all the projects he wanted to get done each week. Rob: Before we get to the interview with Dave, this podcast episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Think Tank. That’s our private mastermind that we’ve been telling you about for the last couple of weeks. It’s for copywriters and other marketers who want to challenge each other. They want to create new revenue streams in their business, create new products in their business, receive one-on-two coaching from Kira and myself, and ultimately grow your business to whatever your goal is. Rob: We often say six figures or more. But if that’s not your goal, we designed it to help you reach the goal that you have for your business. If you’ve been looking for a dynamic mastermind to help you grow as a copywriter and as a business owner, visit copywriterthinktank.com and set up a short information session with us to find out more. Kira: Now, let’s jump into our conversation with Dave. Dave: I’m going to go back to my days as a fitness athlete. This is pretty much when it all started. So, in the early 2000s, I was an amateur competitive bodybuilder. So, I was very obsessed with everything fitness, bodybuilding, muscle building, you name it. In 2007, I met a guy named Lee Hayward. We were fellow competitors on the regional circuit. So, we’ve known of each other within the local circuit, but I’ve never met Lee in person. I was traveling to his hometown to compete that weekend. So, Lee actually offered me to stay at his house that weekend. We only knew each other little bit, but I never knew what he was doing for a living. The first morning, he was having coffee. He’s like, “Well, I’m going to do some work. I’m going to answer a couple emails and then I should be done by noon. And then we can go work out.” I was like, “Yeah, it’s nice to be on vacation and have that schedule.” He’s like, “Well, it’s pretty much like the way we operate here.” I was like, “Really? What is it that you do?” He’s like, “Well, I have a bodybuilding website. I make a full living out of it and making six figures a year, working from home. My wife works with me.” I was like, “Well, okay, I need to understand how you do to that.” So, I quickly treated my passion for fitness to an obsession for business building, started studying direct response marketing, anything that had to do with online marketi

Nicola Moors brought so much to the 236th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast. Nicola started her career as an investigative journalist who wrote about topics that are not easy for everyone to tell or to write. In her time as a journalist, she was able to gain essential skills that make her a great and sought-after copywriter today. Dive into this episode to uplevel your “interview” skills. We also talked about: How becoming a copywriter leads to more things you love. Creating a safe space for women to share stories that severely impacted their lives. The challenge of making stories unique and different from each other. Why you should never call an interview “an interview.” How to replicate someone’s voice without a brand guide and do it effectively. Mental and emotional stability when writing about mentally exhaustive topics. Why it’s vital to separate yourself from the story, so you can help people share their experiences in an impactful way. The best way to find captivating hooks that pique interest. The importance of letting people speak more than you do. The advantages of Facebook and finding your first few clients. Why backing yourself is the key to your own success. How to grow with a network of supportive copywriters in a lonely online world. How being cheeky and upfront will get you what you want and boost confidence. The truth about the stories you tell yourself and when it’s time to let them go. The back and forth of being both a procrastinator and a perfectionist. – Can they live in harmony? The better way to get testimonials and feedback. (Hint: It’s all about making it less work-like.) The plus side to being organized and putting together systems that streamline. Why it’s important to celebrate your own wins as much as your clients. The secret to nailing Kira and Rob’s voice. Is it possible? The trick to making your previous clients feel special and remembered. Reversing into brick walls. – Ever done it? Be sure not to miss this episode whether it be by listening or reading the transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Nicola’s website Celeb Copywriter Brand Voice Buddy Think Tank   Full Transcript: Rob: This probably doesn’t come as a surprise, but a lot of copywriters get their start in the world of journalism, whether they earn a degree or actually work writing news stories. As reporters, they learn how to find a story that readers are interested in, how to research and find important details and how to find a hook and tell a story, all skills that we need as copywriters. This week’s guest for the 236th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is think tank member, Nicola Moors. And as you might expect from my intro, Nic was a reporter before she made the leap into copywriting. We asked her about what she learned from that experience and what she’s done to grow her copywriting business so quickly since going full-time early last year. Kira: Before we hear what Nic has to say, this podcast episode is brought to you by the Copywriter Think Tank. The think tank is our private mastermind group for copywriters and other marketers who want to challenge each other, create new revenue streams in their businesses, receive coaching from the two of us and ultimately grow to six figures or more. Up until last year we only opened the think tank once a year, but today we invite a few new members each quarter. If you’ve been looking for a mastermind to help you grow, email [email protected] to set up an interview. Rob: Okay, so let’s jump into our interview with Nic and find out why she left the world of journalism for life as a copywriter. Nic: The truthful story is very on-brand for me. So I think you’re going to like it. So basically I was working as a journalist and one of my colleagues was always typing, always working and she had a website. I was like, ooh, and she called herself a copywriter. And I had no idea what that was. And she said that she wrote blogs for these companies and she got paid X amount to write blogs. And I thought, oh, that sounds like good because I would like to have actual money to buy more wine. Literally, I just wanted to buy more wine. And so I said to her, can I have their contact details? They didn’t want to work with me, but I was really intrigued by the prospect of doing this copywriting. And I’m using air quotes now, which you guys can’t see, but I had no idea what it was. And so I literally just started my business. I enrolled with the government, with HMRC, started my business. I think the next day I just started this copywriting course just to see what copywriting was about. And then it went really well. The first day I opened my business, I got a client in a Facebook group and I was so happy. So for the next 18 months, I worked as a journalist while doing copywriting

For the 235th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, we’re joined by Jill Wise. Jill is a brand and marketing strategist, conversion copywriter, and business coach. As much as she’s dedicated to her craft and her clients, she’s also driven to create an authentic online presence. Pushing through the noise and the “rules” of what she’s supposed to do online, she’s been able to showcase who she truly is and attract clients who align with her same brand values. Don’t miss this episode all about being more YOU in a crowded space while serving your clients at the maximum level. In this episode, we dive deep into: • Going from a side-hustle to full-on copywriter. • How to break the rules the RIGHT way and feel great about it. • Creating a safe space for clients and allowing open communication right from the discovery call. • The step-by-step process of a white-glove experience and making sure your clients are supported every step of the way. • Why an automated system can be a great addition to your business and enhance your workflow and respect your boundaries. • 3 tips to enhance productivity and getting your ideal schedule defined. • How to shift mindset from freelancer to business owner and what it will do for your business. • The question: Should you give your client a to do list? • The truth about showing up online and finding your true voice • The secret to building discipline—no, it’s not a trait you’re born with • The ins and out of solving problems and finding real solutions for clients • When something doesn’t work… how to reframe, reevaluate, and get back out there • Why you should add other skills to your repertoire • How to properly evaluate competitors—mimic or do better? • When you get the advice to “dumb yourself down…” run! Whether you’re a new freelance copywriter or an established business owner, you’ll gain new insights and ideas on how to project your own business forward. Click the play button below to listen, or scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Jill’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Kira: Does this ring a bell for you? You see what everyone else in the copywriting world is doing. You hear what clients expect and you even get advice from a coach that you need to act just like everyone else to get the thing you want. The game’s got rules and if you don’t play by them, you’ll stay on the bench. That’s what Jill Wise, Think Tank mastermind member and our guest for the 235th episode of the Copywriter Club Podcast was told. Play nice, dumb things down, don’t rock the boat, or you won’t attract the clients you want. But something was off and recently, Jill decided to ignore that advice and be more true to who she is. And in this interview, she revealed her new brand transformation with us. Rob: Before we share what Jill told us, this podcast episode is brought to you by the Copywriter Think Tank. That’s our private mastermind for copywriters and other marketers who want to challenge each other, create new revenue streams in their business, receive one on two coaching from the two of us, and ultimately grow to six figures or more. If you’ve been looking for a dynamic mastermind to help you grow as a copywriter and as a business owner, visit copywriterthinktank.com to set up a short information session or email us at [email protected] with questions. Kira: The Copywriter Think Tank will help you figure out a lot of the same stuff we cover in this interview with Jill; things like client boundaries, creating better processes and figuring out what your brand stands for. Now, let’s jump into our conversation with Jill Wise. Jill: I graduated university and my husband is a few years older than me, we were dating at the time and he moved to Montreal and I did the thing, moved to be with him too. But I can’t speak French and he can, and it’s a French speaking city and you’re not supposed to be able to work in most places unless you can speak French too. So I had to figure out how I was going to actually make money. Of course I had that Carrie Bradshaw vision that a lot of us have thinking that I was going to live in a cool city and have cool shoes and this cute boyfriend and get to write all these stories, but it didn’t exactly work out that way because my first gig was writing 500 words for $25. And even though I was freelancing, I still had to get a job working in the kitchen of a vegan restaurant. And I was the head chef flipping falafels at the time. Obviously things got a lot better from there. We ended up leaving Montreal so that I could have an easier time working, and we moved out west to Calgary. That’s where I found the editor who started giving me writing gigs for his branding agency. And after doing a few of these like la

Mindset coach and business strategist, Linda Perry, is back for the 234th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Linda is a recovering copywriter who sheds light on how to make mindset approachable in business. No matter what stage of business, everyone experiences struggles with mindset in one way or another. There’s a ton of great advice in this episode. You’ll want to note all the ways you can make mindset practical in your own business. Here’s an inkling of what we talked about: • The mindset around pivoting and the fear of not making money. • The sneaky way low-hanging fruit can set you back if you’re not aware, and the better way to handle the low-hanging fruit. • The truth about being afraid to say no to projects and the feeling of always saying yes to everything. • The answer to the question: Are you telling yourself stories or facts? • How to create vision in your business and why it’s the #1 thing to do. • Why creating boundaries are key to setting yourself up to work the way YOU want to work. • The reality of overwhelm and why it’s a trap. • A clear vision is not a financial goal—here’s what it really is. • The 3 steps to let go of the “how” to let your vision thrive Linda’s website Linda’s 1st TCC Episode The Slight Edge by Jeff Olson Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob: As a business owner, you get to decide how your business changes over time, whether it shrinks or grows, whether you add products or services, employees or not, it’s all up to you. I was trying to think of a metaphor for how this works, but the regular metaphors that we use for transformation, like a caterpillar turning into a butterfly, doesn’t really feel like a fit to me here because the process isn’t that straightforward and the results that you get, aren’t always beautiful. So maybe a better metaphor is playing with LEGO bricks, building one thing and then breaking off pieces to expand it here or there and changing it into something completely different. And oftentimes the colors don’t match and the shape isn’t perfect. And maybe this thing that you’ve built, isn’t even recognizable to anybody who didn’t see you build it or who you haven’t told the thing is. And our guest for the 234th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Think Tank alum, Linda Perry. She has dramatically reshaped and changed her copywriting business over the past year. A lot like playing with those LEGO bricks. And while the result is a better business, the process wasn’t easy. And in a moment she’s going to share exactly what that was like and where she’s ended up. Kira: And clearly you have not played LEGO with me, Rob, because my colors do match. My shape is perfect. And the thing I build is always recognizable. Rob: You didn’t grow up with the old sets where you only had… Kira: I did. Rob: …like 15 bricks of blue and 15 bricks of red. Yeah. Kira: I did actually, and I feel like kids are missing out today because it’s like, you have your blueprint and you have to make the thing that you purchased and you can just be more creative. So yeah, we can talk about LEGOs. I’m glad you’re not talking about butterflies and caterpillars and LEGOs are way more fun. So thank you. And before we hear what Linda has to say, this podcast episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Think Tank. The Think Tank is our private mastermind for copywriters and other marketers who want to challenge each other, create new revenue streams in their businesses, receive coaching from the two of us and ultimately grow to six figures or more depending on your unique goal and vision. up until last year, we only opened the Think Tank once a year, but today we invite a few new members each quarter. So if you’ve been looking for a mastermind to help you grow email, [email protected] to set up an interview. Rob: Okay, let’s jump into our interview with Linda Perry and find out about what she’s been up to since we last interviewed her on the podcast more than a year ago—way back on episode 108. Linda: I feel like everything has changed in my business since I was last on. To start with, I think my business back then was primarily copywriting, working with a series of clients, having a couple of retainer clients and really just diving back into the mindset space in this whole new way where I really got to own myself and be really much more of a version of myself in the mindset space than I’d ever been. And today I think I have one copy writing client left. I do teach some life coaches about how to build their business, but I have built up my mindset business and have really nailed down who I love working with. And it is really, yes, I work with a ton of copywriters, but I love identifying sort of the phases people are in, in their growth of their bus

For the 233rd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Mariah Phillips shares the secret to building a copywriting business in the nonprofit sector. Mariah is a Digital Marketing Strategist and Copywriter based in Baltimore, Maryland. She teaches entrepreneurs how to market their businesses and tell their stories. If you’ve been looking for a way to make an impact in your copywriting career, give this episode a listen. (Or read.) Here’s what we talked about in this interview: • Mariah’s journey through brand story development and the secret to long standing brands. • How to write for top nonprofits AND earn a living. • The right way to build a local community event with the power of words. • The brilliant way to pivot and share knowledge with others about your expertise. • A day in the life of an agency writer: sampling 10’s of voices?! • The truth about going down the rabbit whole. (Can it actually be a good thing?) • What you need to know about working in fundraising. – and storytelling. • The formula to learn when writing to people not directly receiving a benefit. • The better way to navigate a conversation with agencies and their strategy. • Why you should give more value than your client pays for. • How to go from scrappy freelance mindset to empowered CEO mindset. • The quickest, easiest way to NOT connect with your clients. • Why it’s vital to connect with people where they’re at. • 5 ways you should use the same metaphor. – or shouldn’t. This is an interview you won’t want to miss. To hear it, click the play button below. Or school down to read the full transcript below and while you’re reading… subscribe with your favorite podcast app and never miss an episode.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Kira: Time and time again, guests on our podcast have told us they started copywriting without actually knowing that what they were doing was writing copy. They were just figuring out how to market a product or service and copy was a natural part of the process. That’s also true of today’s guests for the 233rd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Mariah Phillips. Mariah jumped from PR to fundraising to SEO before figuring out that the thing she did best in all of those roles was copywriting. Rob: Before we share our interview with Mariah, this podcast episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Think Tank. The Think Tank is a private mastermind group for copywriters and other marketers who want to challenge each other, create new revenue streams in their business, receive one on two coaching from the two of us and ultimately grow their businesses to six figures or more. If you’ve been looking for a mastermind to help you grow, email us at [email protected] to set up an interview or go to copywriterthinktank.com. Kira: Now let’s jump into our conversation with Mariah. Mariah: Somehow I’ve always been a copywriter and didn’t know it. So as I worked… I started in corporate America, I worked in a boutique PR firm in then New York Metro area. And so while there, we had to do a lot of brand story development for clients. Some of our clients were global and longstanding brands, and since some of them were brand new and sold quirky things like monocles, like this was their first time ever stepping out. And so my responsibility was to write their brand story, write copy, and even write pitches which isn’t necessarily copy, but pitches to the media are making a sale. So, I did that and then I transitioned to working for an ed tech company called 2U, Inc. And in the process there, I started off as a placement specialist for a clinical social work program. And if you don’t know anything about 2U, Inc basically they power the biggest universities in the country, they power their online master’s programs. My goal there was to get into their digital marketing department, but at the time when I was moving from the New York regions back to Maryland, they didn’t have any openings in that department, so I said, you know what, I’ll start off with student placement and help these master’s level social work students get their internships. And that was cool because in order to do that, the students had to take their social work program online, but they had to take their clinical programs in their hometown. And so I had to find clinical social work placements for students, working adults and places like Waukesha, Wisconsin. Places where there’s like one person in a whole town. And I worked throughout different regions in the U.S. to do that, and that relates to copy because it was there that I realized that the team there who was pitching these different clinical social work partnerships and like agreements with health systems to get our schools in partnership with these health sys

On the 232nd episode of The Copywriter Club podcast, we’ve got Marcus McNeill. Marcus is the co-founder and CEO of Magic based in Boulder, Colorado. He works with purpose-driven companies who seek global impact and change around both the country and world. He’s helped leaders such as Eckhart Tolle and Deepak Chopra spread their missions and messages across the globe. You may want to grab a notepad right away because this episode is full of insights you won’t want to miss. In this episode, we discussed: • How a conscious-based life can radically shift perspective. • Why learning from Deepak Chopra became the greatest catalyst to vulnerability and openness. • The secret to going from monkey mind to observing thoughts with confidence • How an agency helped in decriminalizing magic mushrooms. – and the key marketing components needed to make such an impact. • How to create multiple avatars for one campaign and nail their personal values to make an impact. • The ingredients behind asking people to change their buyer behavior and trust a new brand. Is it possible? • Where copywriters are getting their customer avatars wrong and why they should spend more time in the research. • How copywriters have the power to truly make an impact and difference around the world. • What you need to know before starting an agency and what should come first. • The reality of growing a business – why it’s okay to take a step back, so you can take two steps forward. • 3 ways you can gain clients and close sales like it’s nothin’. • How to maximize customer experience and become a partner with your client. • The client comes first, right? Think again, when your team is connected and nurtured, great work follows. • The truth about combining business and wellness. Can the two coexist? • Why small impact matters and how it can be the first magic step. This episode might leave you thinking about impact and copywriting in a whole new light. To hear it, click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. And of course, you should subscribe with your favorite podcast app to ensure you never miss an episode.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Our Event for Copywriters Marianne Williamson The E-myth Revisited by Michael Gerber Jonny Stellar Magic Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob: If you’re a longtime fan of this podcast, or I guess any other podcast, you’ve probably had the experience of listening to a guest share their story and what they learned, and then had to reach for a pen and paper to capture the ideas that they’re sharing, so that they don’t get lost, or so that you don’t forget them. Maybe you’ve even had to pull off the road as you were driving, or tell your kids to be quiet so that you don’t miss something that you could use in your business. That’s exactly how we felt more than a handful of times in this interview. Our guest for the 232nd episode of the Copywriter Club Podcast is Marcus McNeill, the founder of Magic. And as we spoke to Marcus, we found ourselves taking more notes than usual, trying to capture the wisdom that he shared about building his business. Fair warning, you might want to grab a pen and a notebook, or pull off to the side of the road, as you listen to this episode. Kira: Before we share our interview with Marcus, this is the last week for a while that this podcast is brought to you by TCC, Not in Real Life, our event for copywriters and other smart marketers. And the reason for that? Well, it’s just about the last week you can get a ticket for our event, which happens April 7th through the 9th. If you want to learn firsthand from experts like Joanna Wiebe, Todd Brown, Jereshia Hawk, Joel Klettke, Eman Ishmael, and so many more. You need to get your ticket today. To do that, visit thecopywriterclub.com/tccirl-1. There’s also a link to that information page in the show notes of this episode. Rob: So, hit pause now to get your ticket, and then jump back into our interview with Marcus McNeill, which begins with us asking Marcus why and how he started Magic Agency. Marcus: So, starting Magic, I would recommend going back a little bit further back. When I was in my early 20s, I was working in the corporate world and I absolutely hated it. So, I packed up all of my possessions and a crappy Honda Accord with no air conditioning and barely even operated, and drove from Texas to California in hopes of the California dream, living by the beach and all that. Serendipitously, although I’m a Texas raised kid and had never been exposed to yoga or meditation, or consciousness teachings of any kind, I got a job working with Deepak Chopra. I’m not sure if you guys know who he is, but he’s a relatively famous spiritual teacher. He teaches primordial sound meditation and just general spirituality. I learned those conscio

On the 231st episode of The Copywriter Club podcast, we’re joined by Sara Vartanian. Sara is a launch strategist and copywriter, but before that, she was a teacher and e-commerce business owner. She’s really done it all. After obtaining vast knowledge of the copywriting world through her e-commerce business, Sara has been able to grow her presence and establish herself as an authority in the online space. If you’re ready to create an effective lead magnet and begin building your email list, then you’ve come to the right place. Some of what we cover, includes: • how to carry over skills from teaching into copywriting, plus two tips on being a better mentor. • why giving less is more and how to charge for value rather than trying to give away your soul for pennies. • when it may be time to let go of clients who are no longer serving you and open up space for new opportunities. • how to create strong boundaries right from the sales call and how to stick with them. (No matter how hard it may be.) • the secret to putting yourself in front of the right communities in order to build genuine relationships and establish authority. • creating a lead magnet your ideal client wants AND needs • the right and wrong ways of building an email list – are pop ups the way to go? • why the “omg, you get me email” is crucial to building a relationship right away. • 4 emails that need to follow the first in your welcome sequence • the truth about launching…do you need to have all the bells and whistles? • 3 ways to manage your energy during a launch. • why it’s vital to set clear expectations about launch copy. • the single most important component of driving sales to a launch. • the sneaky way to get more people in the doors for your product. (or your client’s) • a better way to handle burnout and sustain productivity and creativity. • the secret to viewing comparisonitis in a positive light and where to find the best support in your copywriting business. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Best Copywriter Club event of the year! Sara’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Transcript is underway…    

On the 230th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast, Rob and Kira are going guestless. They’re sitting back and answering some questions they get frequently among our community. They’re giving their best advice and tips for new and established copywriters who are looking to level up and sustain what they’re building. In this episode, we dive into: • when you’ll get the chance to build the foundations of your business with us in just 3 months • the truth about working for free – should you do it? • how to hire a VA that will pay for themselves. • 9 books we’re reading right now – one genre? Never. • the #1 question we get asked every. single. day. • the 3 biggest levers when it comes to pricing your offers. • how to choose the most profitable niches in copywriting. • the good and the bad of Clubhouse. (Note: We will be on Clubhouse on Tuesdays at 5PM EST.) • if you don’t have copywriting samples for a particular project, here’s what you should do. • the secret to building trust with potential clients. • what Rob & Kira would do differently if they were beginners. • success as a copywriter – how we define success • how to maintain your business as you’re helping scale others. Tune in and listen as we give candid advice on your most asked questions. Hit the play button below or check out the transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Club Annual Event – Early Bird Sale Ends March 22nd Done by Noon by Dave Ruel Ready, Fire, Aim by Michael Masterson & Mark Ford Yes to Life by Viktor Frankl Man Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl The Righteous Mind by Jonathan Haidt Facing the Climate Emergency by Margaret Salamon Fair Play by Eve Rodsky The Uninhabitable Earth by David Wallace-Wells Lives of the Stoics by Ryan Holiday The Copywriter’s Ultimate Guide to Using Clubhouse Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: If you’ve been listening to the show for the last three plus years, you no doubt have heard us ask hundreds, maybe even thousands of questions to the amazing copywriters and experts who have been on the show. We’ve even asked a few people to join us and turn the tables to ask us questions. Today we’re going guestless for the 230th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, and we’re answering the questions that get asked the most often in our free Facebook group, as well as some questions that are asked in our paid programs, like The Copywriter Accelerator and The Copywriter Underground. Kira Hug: When you say guestless, it makes it sound like we’re naked. Rob Marsh: Does it? Kira Hug: Like we’re missing something. Yeah, it sounds like we’re shedding all the layers today and it’s just us. Rob Marsh: Nice. I would hate to think that people would think that we’re not clothed here, but yeah, that’s … How embarrassing. Kira Hug: It’s just us today, naked and we’re going to answer your questions. Before we do that, this podcast episode is brought to you by TCC(N)IRL, of course it’s The Copywriter Club (Not) In Real Life, our event for copywriters and other smart marketers who want to learn from experts like Joanna Wiebe, Carline Anglade-Cole, Todd Brown, Jereshia Hawk, Joel Klettke, Eman Ismail and more than a dozen others. But this event is not just about great presentations, it’s not just about sitting at your computer and staring at Zoom all day. It’s really about connecting with other copywriters in intimate virtual spaces so you can build real relationships, even possibly friendships, partnerships, and also get a lot of work done while you’re with us over the three days. So we’re really focused on doing, not just learning, and we’re focused on implementation through workshops. So you’re not just sitting through a presentation and then going back to your work with nothing to show for it. So if you’re interested in this virtual experience that we’re really excited about, you can learn more at thecopywriterclub.com\tccnirl-2021, and if you don’t remember that link, then you can just find it in the show notes on our website. Rob Marsh: Yeah, I’m excited. That’s going to be April 7th through 9th, 2021. If you’re listening to this after that, you missed the opportunity to join us, but if you’re listening before those dates, make sure you join us. It’s going to be great. Okay, so let’s open up, I want to say the mailbag. We don’t actually get any real mail, email bag or the Facebook groups, and answer some of the questions- Kira Hug: Well, we get mail. Rob Marsh: Well, email. Kira Hug: Oh, you mean like mail questions. Rob Marsh: Yes, yes. Questions in the mailbag. So we’re going to answer a bunch of questions that we get asked a lot, starting with, when are you going to open the accelerato

On the 229th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast, Selena Soo shares it all when it comes to publicity. During a difficult period, Selena began seeking information but found inspiration. Selena became a publicity strategist after stepping into the power of connecting others and helping people share their message with the world. If publicity isn’t something on your mind, it will be after listening in on this episode. In this episode, we cover: • how to get your ideal client to find you • why investing in yourself can change the game for your business and life • the impact of hustle culture and seeking a balance • when you include publicity, more eyes are on your core message • the secret to building a strong body of work • how to use being an introvert to your advantage • why you need to clear on what you want to be known for • what kind of media you should be in front of, plus how to decide on mainstream topics • two techniques you can use to pitch yourself • when and how to join the right mastermind programs • why your body of work matters no matter the size • the quickest, easiest way to amplify your message • 5 things you need to realize when it comes to mindset and pitching • the truth behind being vulnerable online • why sharing what’s important to you matters online • if you’re showing up in any form of media, Selena shares what you need to have prepared New to publicity or maybe you never thought it was THAT important? Think again. You’re about to learn a thing or two from an expert connector. Hit play below! The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: TCC(N)IRL Event 2021 Free Video Series – Impacting Millions Program Selena’s blog post about abuse Selena’s free calendar Elizabeth Gilbert: Eat Pray Love Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Kira: Getting noticed by the right people is a talent. And while we’ve talked a lot about pitching on this podcast lately, I think we can all agree that life is so much easier when your ideal client finds you rather than the other way around. To get to that place in your business, it sure helps to have publicity, AKA other people sharing your thoughts and ideas on their platforms. That’s something we can all use more of, right? Our guest for the 229th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is publicity strategist, Selena Soo. She didn’t waste any time helping us figure out what we should be doing to get more publicity for our business. And we think you’ll get a ton out of this interview too. Rob: We’ll get back to our interview with Selena in a moment. But first, this podcast episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Club (Not) In Real Life, or TCC(N)IRL. That’s our event for copywriters and other smart marketers who want to learn more from experts like Joanna Wiebe, Carline Anglade-Cole, Todd Brown, Jereshia Hawk, Joel Klettke, Eman Ismail, and more than a dozen others. But TCC(N)IRL is about more than just presentations, it’s about connecting with other copywriters, helping you to form real relationships, true friendships, and maybe even a successful partnership with another copywriter. To learn more, visit TheCopywriterClub.com/TCCNIRL-2021. And if you don’t remember that link, you can find it in the show notes of this episode on The Copywriter Club website. Kira: Now, let’s jump into our conversation with Selena. So why don’t you kick off your story just, how did you end up as a publicity and marketing strategist? Salena Soo: Absolutely. It actually started in my mid 20s when I had a quarter life crisis. I was clinically depressed, I was having trouble eating and getting out of that in the mornings. I reached such a low point that my mom flew from Vancouver, Canada to New York at the time, just to be by my side to help me get through life. And she would get on the subway and take me to work, as if I was like a little girl going to school. And I remember saying to a friend, “I just need to find a way to feel better. Do you know anyone who can help me?” And I learned about this life coach. And she would organize a women’s group, they would meet every Wednesday, and so I started going to those. And I got exposed to these experts and authors and inspirational personalities. And that’s when I realized that when people are struggling and suffering, they’re not just looking for more information, they’re looking for inspiration, whether they’re someone that doesn’t have a sense of life purpose, or they’re just really dying to strike out on their own and create their own dream business, or maybe they are looking to heal their health or leave a toxic relationship. And I just really felt like the world needs more role models and there’s nothing more powerful than these people that embody that message of possibility. And so I would ask my friends, &#822

On the 228th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, we’re joined by Eddie Biroun. Eddie is a conversion copywriter for e-comm and education brands and a forever learner of his craft. After fumbling into copywriting, he knew it was something he wanted to commit to for the long run. He became intrigued with understanding branding and what truly makes a brand stand the test of time. During our conversation, we talked about going from professional student to professional copywriter and how you can make the same leap. We also talked about: • why stages of awareness are important and why buzzwords don’t create a connection • failing and how you can (and should) make it work to your advantage • how expecting a perfect first draft is like looking for a unicorn • going from obtaining knowledge and skills in copywriting to putting it into action • Eddie’s process in downloading the voice of a new client and why it’s important to effective copy • how your creative artist and managerial side have to be separate when writing the first draft • why feedback (even negative feedback) is essential to becoming a better copywriter • choosing projects and people who empower you and respect your craft • how learning and improving will always be a part of copywriting and it doesn’t need to be something you learn in a day • how having a mentor speeds up the process because direct feedback is readily available • where to look for red flags and how using your gut can save you a lot of headaches • why building a better relationship with your mind will help you tackle imposter syndrome when it comes up (because it does for all of us) • why taking care of your life side of things is vital to take care of the work side of things • how copywriters have the power to make other people’s dreams come true (we are wizards after all) • copywriting isn’t just a flippant task, it’s the infrastructure for long-term success • why having a morning routine will keep you focused when in the copy cave (did we mention this includes reading?) • how to navigate through writer’s block when perfectionism or ideas need to be uncovered Need a dose of motivation to stop going into information overload and start applying what you’re learning? This episode with Eddie might do just the trick. Hit the play button below (or read the transcript below!) The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Almanack of Naval How to Create Your Copywriter Website (written by Eddie) Eddie’s Instagram Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob: Getting better at copywriting, this thing that we all do, isn’t easy. And sometimes we get stuck in a project, we get stuck getting started or we get stuck struggling to find clients. Our guest for the 228th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Eddie Biroun. Eddie is the kind of copywriter who hates getting stuck and he’s figured out what it takes to get moving again when he has gotten stuck. In fact, he’s made dramatic improvements over the past year or two in how fast he writes, in the quality of his writing and the kinds of clients that he’s working with. We think that you’re going to get quite a bit from the experiences that Eddie shares in this interview. Kira: Before we share our interview with Eddie, this podcast episode is brought to you by TCC (Not) In Real Life, our event for copywriters and other smart marketers who want to learn from experts like Joanna Wiebe, Todd Brown, Jereshia Hawk, Joel Klettke, Momo Price, and so many others like them. But it’s not just about speakers and presentations and sitting through more Zoom calls because you don’t need that. TCC IRL is really famous for connecting copywriters with each other and helping you to form real relationships, even friendships, potentially partnerships with other copywriters and marketers. To learn more, visit thecopywriterclub.com/tccnirl-2021. There’s also a link to that in the show notes, if you want to check out the event page. Rob: Let’s jump right into our interview with Eddie telling us how he became a copywriter. Eddie Biroun: I ended up in copywriting like most people do, I fumbled my way into it. I had been doing it without even realizing I’d done it. I was doing a lot of content writing and I was just generally doing a lot of advertising work. My first very marketing job was, I had a buddy who owned all the screens at our universities, all the TV screens and he was selling ad spaces using that. So I was the guy that was just coming around, knocking on doors around local businesses saying, “Hey, you want students to come and spend money here, right? Well, we’ve got all these TVs.” It was a sales job, so it was tough, you’re not going to get paid until somebody says yes. So what I was trying to do is sweeten the deal by offering them ad copy and graphic design. I didn’t know what th

On the 227th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, we’re joined by content writer Jacob McMillen, who as you’ll see towards the end of the episode is an SEO master. Jacob shares his insights on writing great copy and running a content business. Through actively listening and really wanting to help others in his door-to-door sales job, he decided to take the world of copywriting for a spin. Having scaled to 6 figures, we talked about the stages of business as a freelancer and what it really takes to make it. What’s more… he’s the #1 search result for “copywriter” on Google. We break down: • how copywriting can be the good of sales without the ick • how Jacob went from accounting student (who didn’t want to be an accountant) to copy expert • Jacob’s natural talent for connecting a solution to a problem • the perfect lucrative combination of marketing • how batting 5% is crushing the pitching game • how persistence is necessary in the beginning • how to get your ideal customer to agitate their own problems • the ropes of reeling in clients during the early stages • why putting your eggs in one basket can leave you scrambled • how Jacob went from 3k months to 20k • how pitches can be the bread and butter when in need • how flirting with SEO paid off & created 30+ monthly leads • how to stand out in 2021 as a new copywriter • why not to compare yourself to other copywriters • building a copywriting agency and how it’s not for everyone • if flipping websites could be the new real estate? • how new technology cannot replace copywriting geniuses If you’re ready to go from side-hustle to business owner, this episode is worth checking out. Grab a cup of coffee, hit play & start taking notes. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Copywriter Think Tank Empire Flippers Jacob’s Website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Kira: This week we talked about the different stages of business as a freelancer with our guest, copywriter, and entrepreneur, Jacob McMillen. Jacob is currently the number one US search result for the search term copywriter, which means we should all team up and up our SEO game and challenge his number one spot. Rob: We’ll come back to Jacob’s interview in just a moment, but first you should know that this interview is brought to you by The Copywriter Underground. That’s our incredibly valuable membership for copywriters who are done figuring out things by themselves and want to surround themselves with an awesome community of copywriters. It includes our perfect proposal training, our persuasion course, our new sales course, plus more than 20 templates and dozens of presentations all designed to help you make progress in your business. You can learn more about it at thecopywriterunderground.com. Kira: Now let’s get to our conversation with Jacob. Jacob, we would love to just start with your story, a very detailed story of how you got into copywriting. Do not leave anything out. Jacob McMillen: Okay. I think it’s a relatively fun story. I think you have to start back when I got into sales and unlike a normal person, my start in sales was door to door sales in college. I got roped into doing it one summer. I needed a lot of money. It sounded a little ridiculous, but the numbers made sense to me. So I was like, I’m just going to do it. And I made enough to pay for three years of school in 16 weeks… Not 16 weeks, yes, 12 weeks. And I really enjoyed the sales process. I enjoyed sitting down with someone talking to them, hearing about their needs, connecting what they needed to the solutions I was selling. There were also a lot of things about direct sales that I hated. So after college, I graduated with an accounting degree. Only thing I knew was I’m not going into accounting. So I was like, what’s next? Started to discover the online marketing world, SEO, stuff like that. And then I fell into copywriting and realized it was everything I loved about sales, minus everything I hated about sales. And I never really thought of myself as loving writing, but it would always come fairly easily. And once I started applying it and directions I actually cared about versus the writing you do in school, I realized I actually enjoyed it. So it just seemed like this great convergence of something that I was relatively talented at naturally, something I was learning to enjoy. And I quickly tapped into just how lucrative the demand was for it. And so, that’s the perfect combination of things in terms of skillset to build your career around. So I just ran with it and yeah, started with blog writing and then went into landing pages. I just went full speed on the freelancing end of things, did that for a few years. I applied… I think doing that door to door sales job, my mentality towards sales was very volume-based, very hustle-based.

Our guest for the 226th episode of The Copywriter Podcast is Christy Cegelski. Like many people who’ve become copywriters, Christy’s journey to becoming a copywriter was not a traditional one. She learned her marketing and copywriting skills after launching her own FOOD business. She gave us insights on how starting a business the “right” way isn’t the only way. Great results can be achieved by going off the beaten course and by following intuition. If you’re thinking about how your own background could prove useful in your copywriting career, make sure to give this episode a listen. This is how it all breaks down, we talked about: • how Christy went from mommy blogger to food creator • how margarita mix made Christy a copywriter • the stigma of not being paid well as a writer was proving painfully true in the beginning • her passion working behind the scenes with email funnels, website copy, social media • the end of the food creation business but the beginning of a new one • how she became the GO TO for all things websites & emails • how she was able to grow her email list + social media organically • how she proved email marketing was never “dead” • the knowledge she brought into copywriting from her previous business endeavors • when she knew copywriting was going to be a business • how she used “the google method” in the beginning to price her offers • why “figuring it out” in the beginning can be a positive and negative thing • using feminine strategies rather than masculine & following intuition to do what feels fulfilling • navigating burnout while learning a new skill • why she outsourced before she was ready + the results • how she’s scaled her prices overtime & works less • Christy’s writing process + flow of creativity • the struggles of going from storytelling to the point of the copy • having a launch plan prior to starting a podcast + who should start one • the benefits of having a podcast – reciprocal promotions • how learning about something and taking action towards it are two different things Ready to elevate your mindset as a copywriter? Don’t miss this episode with Christy. Click the play button below, or subscribe using your favorite podcast app. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Christy’s website Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob: So many copywriters follow what we’ve called a winding path from one career or kind of experience to their role as a copywriter. And some even grow beyond that to help with things like branding or voice development and marketing strategy. Our guest for the 226th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Christy Cegelski. Christy started writing as a mommy blogger, but then she got really serious about selling when she and her husband launched a company to sell the margarita mix that they had created. What she learned from running that company came in handy when other business owners started reaching out and asking for help with their copy for their businesses. Kira: Before we share our interview with Christy, this podcast episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Underground. That’s the membership for copywriters who are ready to start investing in their business, improve their sales calls, proposals, and build a network that supports them with ideas, leads, and more. To learn more, visit thecopywriterunderground.com. Rob: Christy’s experience ranges from mommy blogger to food product creator, to copywriter, to digital product maker and podcaster. But we started our interview with a question about how she became a copywriter. Christy Cegelski: It’s funny because listening to so many of your podcasts, I realized that none of us have a typical story where we dreamed one day we were going to become a copywriter, and here we are. I guess I kind of, I didn’t know that it sort of had become such a cliche, that it was, everybody came about it in such a strange way. But for me, I mean, I was a stay at home mom for years and years, and I really wanted to get back into writing. It was something that I was really good at when I was a kid. It was sort of an escape for me growing up in the environment that I did, which is another story for another day. But back in 2007, I was reading a lot of mommy blogs. And this is kind of back in the day when bloggers were bloggers and not influencers like they are now. But that medium really kind of became an outlet for me as I started my own blog the next year. And it was a way for me to sort of get back into the practice of writing every day and just sharing my own experience as a wife and a mom. And it was working on that blog that ultimately led me to the decision to go back to school, to get my bachelor’s degree in English, with a writing focus. And at the same time, I started pitching myself for some freelance writing gigs in local publications. And

One of the things we love about The Copywriter Club Facebook group is that we have members all over the world… in just the last 60 days, members from 99 different countries on every continent except Antartica—places like Bulgaria, Colombia, Lithuania, Nigeria, India, and of course the UK, US, Australia, and Canada—have stopped in to read posts, ask questions, comment or just learn from the advice and wisdom shared in the group. Our guest for the 225th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is SEO copywriter and content strategist, Chima Mmeje, who like so many others, joined the group and used the information she found there to hone her business as she started looking for clients. And now, she’s paying it all forward. She talks about: • studying LinkedIn for lead generation (then landing her first client with her very first post!) • the reason we should focus on human content just as much as expert content • articulating her process in order to raise her prices • blogging to generate organic leads and answer frequently asked questions • her initial struggle of finding her value — and building her authority as an African copywriter…and so much more • Chima also spoke about The Freelance Coalition for Developing Countries — the initiative she started to pair experienced copywriters, marketers and creatives with their counterparts in developing countries. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. And if you haven’t yet, subscribe with your favorite podcast app to make sure you never miss an episode.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Chima’s webpage Chima’s LinkedIn Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Kira: One of the things we love about The Copywriter Club Facebook group is that we have members all over the world. In just the last 60 days, members from 99 different countries on every continent except Antarctica… Places like Bulgaria, Columbia, Lithuania, Nigeria, India and of course, the UK, U.S., Australia and Canada, they’ve all stopped to repost, ask questions, show up in the group, comment or just learn from the advice and wisdom shared in the group. Our guest for the 225th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Chima Mmeje, who like so many others, joined the group and used the information she found there to hone her business as she started looking for clients. And now, she’s paying it all forward. Rob: We’ll share Chima’s story and how she’s paying her experience forward in just a minute but first, this podcast episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Underground, that’s the incredibly valuable membership for copywriters who are ready to start investing in their business, improving their sales skills, their proposals and building a network that supports them with ideas, leads and more. As a member of the Underground, you have access to a full sales training course, our proposal training course, the persuasion training course plus dozens of other trainings to improve your copywriting, your mindset and marketing your own business. To learn more, visit the thecopywriterunderground.com. Kira: As we like to do, we started off by asking Chima how she ended up as an SEO copywriter and content strategist. Chima Mmeje: I used to work for a company that are based in the UK. I worked with them remotely from 2017 until April 2019 and while I was working with them, most of the content we’re creating was for these big SEO agents in the UK, they were the biggest SEO agents in the UK at the time. And I realized that I always had the most fun when I was writing content for them, as against writing content for clients in other industries. And my boss used to have a background working with Google, so he was always very helpful in answering questions and my interest kept growing. So by the time I left, I played around with several industries, landing pages, printer’s copy and other stuff but it just felt natural going towards the route of SEO than anything else I’d ever done, it just felt easy. So that was decision made for me or rather, SEO finding me and not me finding SEO. Rob: So Chima, tell us a little bit about how you decided to become a copywriter and how you got that first gig. Chima Mmeje: Yeah, that first gig, it was by chance to be honest because I was just scrolling through… I was looking for a job and I was just scrolling through a job board and then I found this gig saying they are looking for a remote copywriter. I applied, I got it and that was it. There was no moment where I decided that I wanted to be a copywriter. I was blogging for a few years, I think five years. My own blog where I was writing… So it was a way for me to express myself about the issues we have in Nigeria and I was doing that for five years, just like a hobby blog. So I already had a background in writing but this

Today’s guest for the 224th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast is Bree Weber. Bree has a somewhat different approach to cold pitching than some past guests we’ve had on the podcast. One that takes a lot more time, but also seems to get better results. We ask her not only to divulge all of the secrets to her process, but she also shares a pitch she used to land a big client. One we think will make you want to pause this episode and take note. Scroll down to have a listen. A few other things we discussed were… • how she became a copywriter through a process she calls business roulette • what pet photography, video game streamer and Super Meat Boy all have in common • what is ethical cold pitching and Bree’s process for making it effective • how Bree created credibility and authority in her pitches when she had “no portfolio, no fancy names to drop or real stats…” • how she reinvented herself after losing all of her retainer clients in 2020 • Bree’s fears and anxieties she’s worked through when it comes to sales • what she’s done to turn cold pitching on its head; taking it from stigmatized to impossible to ignore • why Bree is getting responses from prospective clients within minutes instead of days or never • how Bree creates space in her schedule for thinking intentionally about her business • what to avoid in your call to action, so you don’t turn prospective clients off • what advice she would give to herself 3 years ago to fast track her business growth • breaking down how she uses video to follow up with clients instead of just another email • tips for bypassing years of experience many need to work with major brands and dream clients • why Bree stays open in all aspects of her business • what persuasion techniques have worked for Bree in her pitches • how to make clients say “thank you” for your pitch instead of just deleting it • why Bree says to get comfortable with “trying on an identity” • what has surprised Bree most about her time in the Copywriter Think Tank • Kira and Rob’s advice on taking “imperfect action” and surrounding yourself with action takers The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Laura Lopuch Chris Collins Belinda Weaver Bree’s Masterclass offer for our listeners Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Transcript is underway…    

Copywriter and philosophy graduate, Chris Collins is our guest for the 223rd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. He’s a member of the Underground and the Copywriter Think Tank so we’ve seen first hand how cold pitching has transformed his copywriting career and helped him get the clients he wants. We knew this is something we wanted to hear more about directly from Chris, so we asked him about… • how being a mommy blogger launched his career • how he saved himself hours of time streamlining his pitching process and scaling it • how he got past his fear of cold pitching • exactly how many emails should you send to your email list? • the importance of building relationships versus up leveling yourself • why just learning “stuff” isn’t enough • what to do if you don’t have money to invest in yourself or your business • why research is critical for a stand-out cold pitch • Chris’s highest converting subject line – averaging over a 90% open rate • how he combines automating with personalization • his not-so-secret shortcut for how he built his copywriting business from 0-10K per month in the same year • his advice on pitching if you’ve never had a client • what his graduate studies in philosophy taught him about strengthening his copy • what he did right in the beginning of his business that you should too • Rob and Kira’s advice on getting started and dealing with rejection To hear more of what Chris has to say, scroll down and hit the play button. Keep scrolling for a full transcript and, of course, you can subscribe with your favorite podcast app to make sure you never miss an episode. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: reply.io The Copywriter Think Tank The Copywriter Accelerator Chris’s LinkedIn christophercollins.co Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Kira: There’s an old cartoon that was published in the New Yorker Magazine of a dog in front of a computer, and the caption says, “On the internet, nobody knows you’re a dog.” That might ring true for a lot of copywriters who write for clients in voices that don’t quite match their own, like our guest for the 223rd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Chris Collins, whose first assignment was writing content for a mommy blogger. In real life, Chris is an academic, doesn’t have kids and gravitates to philosophy, not family planning. We asked Chris how he transitioned from mommy blogger to SAS, and in the process, he revealed a ton of tips about the ins and outs of cold pitching. Rob: But before we dive into Chris’s story, this episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Accelerator. That’s our program for copywriters who want to build a solid business foundation for everything that they do. Members of The Accelerator work through eight different modules together, and those modules cover topics like branding, pricing, client management, getting yourself in front of the right clients, and a lot more. If you’ve struggled to get transaction in your business, or you’re making a change in the kinds of clients that you want to work with, the kind of work that you want to do, or any other thing in your business, you simply want to get better at your processes and the services that you sell, you owe it to yourself to learn more at thecopywriteraccelerator.com. Kira: Let’s jump in with a question about how Chris got started as a copywriter/ mommy blogger. Chris Collins: My first gig was being a mommy blogger, and that wasn’t necessarily where I wanted to be as a writer or where I wanted to start out, but it was just honestly the first gig that I got. I had just been thinking, “Well, maybe I can try my hand at writing online. I’m a pretty good writer. Let’s see how that’ll go.” And the first client I found, she ran a sleep consultancy to help new moms. And she was looking for a blog writer and I sent her something and she really liked what I was doing. That ended up being my first gig for the first six months. And it was the first time that I really understood the power of research actually, because right off the bat, I was writing on topics that I did not know anything about. I’m not a mom or a dad, I don’t have kids, I don’t have a ton of firsthand experience with kids, but what I could do was research these topics that she would give me. She would want to write about, why do kids wake up in the middle of the night? Or, why is my kid a reluctant pooper? And so I would dig into all these articles and research the why behind this and write I think pretty well-informed articles that… She was really happy with the content, but I also knew that I don’t speak the language of parents. I’m not in that social circle, I don’t know what parents talk about, or are interested in. Kira: I don’t know either. Wh

What does it take to build a successful business from scratch? We’re talking about going from nothing to 6 or even 7 figures as a freelancer. Well as you know, it’s not one simple thing, but a combination of a lot of things from choosing a niche and building your network to encouraging referrals and building multiple streams of income. Our guest for the 222nd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Brandi Mowles. We talk to her about her step-by-step approach for creating a successful business that can work for you. In this episode we discuss: • why doing “what she’s supposed to do” didn’t work out for her • why Brandi went to law school with zero intention of working as a lawyer afterwards • why she chose to lean into network marketing and what that has to do with the “glass ceiling” • how she took a leap of faith and went all in with her online businesses • whether or not there is a grace period for niching down – her take on it • her journey from VA to Social Media Ads Manager to Coach and Business Strategist • what she did to stand out and market her services for free • the biggest personal lesson Brandi learned in direct sales and how it changed her perspective on work, family and her identity • what Brandi calls the GIF effect and why it’s so important to your business • why you should only choose ONE thing to change every launch • dealing with trolls • why the first 24 hours after the first contact is so important for delighting your clients and how Brandi does just that • creating your own referral program and getting leads from your best clients • building a win-win ecosystem with other freelancers • why she wants you to have 2-3 revenue streams and how she’s done that for herself This episode is filled with tips you won’t want to miss. Scroll down and hit the play button, or scroll a little farther to read a full transcript. Or download the episode to your podcast player. Better still, subscribe and never miss an episode. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Accelerator Bonjoro Brandi’s website Beta to Biggie Accelerator Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Transcript is underway…  

For a lot of us, being a copywriter is something we just stumble upon accidentally. And for most beginners, it’s getting harder and harder to know what to do when you’re starting out. Our guest for the 221st episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Delesia Watson. If you’re a beginning copywriter, or you want a fresh approach on how to approach marketing and the world of copywriting, then this interview is for you. To hear everything that Delesia shared, scroll down and click the play button. Or download this episode to your favorite podcast app. You can also find a transcript below. We also talked about: • how Delesia’s went from social media writer to copywriter • Delesia’s start in Public Relations and how it helps her as a copywriter • Delesia’s interview process that puts prospects and clients at ease • A look into what her first year in business looked like • Power of storytelling: Why it’s important • Choosing the right words—what works and what doesn’t • The importance of story and voice • Underselling copy — what makes the website fail • Pitching — how to get the right clients • The kind of clients she works with • Delesia’s secret to leveraging yourself without opening your wallet • Her secret tip on how to market yourself • A pet peeve—the one thing she hates doing the most in her business • Can you succeed without knowing your niche yet? • What Delesia wishes she knew in the beginning and what she knows now • Rob and Kira’s advice to beginning (or struggling) copywriters The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Accelerator Women Don’t Ask by Linda Babcock and Sara Laschever Ask For It by Linda Babcock and Sara Laschever Bencivenga’s Bullets The Gary Halberd Letter Free and Inexpensive Resources for Copywriters Delesia’s Youtube Channel: Life is Deleesh Delesia’s Website The Copywriter Club Website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Kira: Who grows up thinking “I want to be a copywriter”? Somehow we all seem to arrive at this point in our careers after working as teachers, marketers, even professions like nurses and attorneys. Our guest for the 221st episode of The copywriter podcast is Delesia Watson, who like the rest of us, found her way into copywriting accidentally. But her background in communications, teaching, pageants and PR prepared her perfectly to make the jump. Rob: But before we dive into Delesia’s story, this episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Accelerator. That’s our program for copywriters who want to build a solid business foundation for everything that they do. Members work through eight different modules all together, covering topics like branding, pricing, client management, getting yourself in front of the right clients. If you’ve struggled to get traction in your business, or if you’re making a change in the kinds of clients that you want to work with, or the kinds of work you want to do, or you simply want to get better at processes and services that you sell, you owe it to yourself to learn more at thecopywriteraccelerator.com. Kira: Let’s jump in and find out how Delesia accidentally became a copywriter. All right, Delesia, we want to start off with your story as we always do. How did you end up as a copywriter? Delesia Watson: That is hard to say, accidentally. I wasn’t planning on becoming a copywriter or becoming a writer, I just knew that I was good at writing. And so my friends would ask for help writing papers and essays throughout my entire life. And then eventually I saw an opportunity to work with a smaller agency that was writing tweets. This is back in, I think 2015, they were writing tweets for thought influencers. So I was writing these people’s tweets about technology or about business. And so that was something that I could add to my resume. And then from there, a friend of mine was working for a self-publishing company and she knew that I write and I’m always talking about grammar mistakes on social media. So she was like, “Hey, you should come help me copy edit books for this self-publishing company that I’m working for.” So I was like, “Totally, I would love to do that.” And I think what really made me feel like, “Hey, I’m probably a copywriter now,” was connecting with a graphic designer. She needed a copywriter for the websites that she was designing. And so I connected with her and started to work with her on a few different projects. And so the bulk of what I do today is writing website copy. Rob: So Delesia, I know you’ve got a lot of PR in your background as well. In fact, you’ve done all kinds of stuff, not only the copy editing and copy writing that you’re talking about, but social media, you’ve worked at an agency, you’ve done the account side. We talk a little bit about that previous experience

How did last year affect your business? 2020 was hard on a lot of copywriters, but somewhere in all the chaos, many of them found a way to not just survive, but thrive. In this episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, we invited Claire Pelletreau to interview us about the past year, our own struggles, the changes we’ve made to our businesses and a lot more. We think the next year is full of potential and can’t wait to get started. Here’s what we talked about: • how Claire set up her business to take maternity leave • the surprises that came as she took time away (and overcoming failure) • the mindset shifts Claire dealt with during her leave • the lessons we learned during 2020 (and Rob’s dream about COVID) • how we learned to like having a team to support our business • the pivots we had to make in our business this year • why we didn’t change our marketing sooner… waiting for pain • how the various programs at The Copywriter Club work together • the shift from live to virtual and how things got better • what we know about TCCIRL in 2021 so far… • how the past year has impacted us personally • our pep talk for what to expect in the next year • our predictions for 2021—what we think is going to happen • getting copywriters to use more Facebook ads If you want a little more insight into our businesses and what we did over the past 12 months, this is the episode to listen to. Scroll down and click the play button. Or subscribe with your favorite podcast app. You’ll find a full transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Get Paid Podcast with Claire Pelletreau The Courage and Clarity Show with Steph Crowder The Copywriter Accelerator Todd Brown Charlie Gilkey Jereshia Hawk Brian Kurtz Claire’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Transcript is underway…