The Copywriter Club Podcast

This is 369th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. And today Kira and Rob talk in depth about writing sales pages. They share their formulas for writing, how they landed their first sales page assignments, and the best ways to improve your skills when it comes to writing sales pages. You definitely don’t want to miss this episode. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.     Full Transcript: As content writers and copywriters gain experience and work on different types of projects, many of them express interest in doing less content work like blog posts and more sales copy work. There are a lot of reasons for this. One big reason is that sales pages are closely tied to the sale of the product or service you are writing about, so it’s easier to justify charging higher prices for the work you do. The sales page leads directly to the sale, where a blog post or case study may be a couple of steps away. Hi, I’m Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And on today’s episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, my co-founder, Kira Hug and I are talking about sales pages. How we approach them. The research we do. The formulas we use to write them. And our secrets for making sure they work as promised. If you write sales copy or want to write sales pages in the future, you may want to stick around for this one. But first, this episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is brought to you by The Copywriter Underground. It is truly the best membership for copywriters and content writers… let me just give you an idea of what you get for $87 a month… first there’s a monthly group coaching call with Kira and me where you can get answers to your questions, advice for overcoming any business or client or writing challenge you have. There are weekly copy critiques where we give you feedback on your copy or content. There are regular training sessions on different copy techniques and business practices designed to help you get better. And we’re adding a new monthly AI tool review where we share a new AI tool or a technique or prompt you can do with AI get more done. That’s on top of the massive library of training and templates. And the community is full of copywriters ready to help you with just about anything… including sharing leads from time to time. Find out more at thecopywriterclub.com/tcu And with that, let’s go to our discussion for some of what we’ve learned over the past few weeks. Kira Hug: Well I think it’s exciting that we are talking together twice in a row back to back. We’ve never done that on this podcast. Usually it’s like 1 podcast for the 2 of us and then maybe ten later we get back on together. Rob Marsh: Yeah, it’s definitely been a while, if it has happened at all. I’d have to go back through… I mean it’s probably because you and I talk to each other a lot, but we don’t record those and share those as podcasts. So. Kira Hug: This is the first. It’s never happened. Rob Marsh: Maybe we’re opening up the doors a little bit to some of our personal conversations here, I don’t know, but hopefully people will enjoy what we have to share today. Kira Hug: Well, it’s also snowing here in Maine. It’s the first snow of the season. Okay it slowed down. It stopped, but it was snowing all morning. It’s absolutely beautiful and it put me in such a good mood, like you just can’t bring me down right now. Rob Marsh: Do you have a blanket and hot chocolate anything by the fire? Kira Hug: I’ve been I’ve been making stew and just drinking hot water. And I’m so ready for the holidays I just drink hot water… Rob Marsh: Wait… You’re drinking hot water, like not tea? Kira Hug: I just drink hot water. So I stopped drinking caffeine since London when I got sick because I felt awful anyway. So anytime I get sick, I’m like, “Well I may as well cut out some of my vices because I already feel awful.” So I’m not drinking caffeine. And I drink a good amount of caffeine. So now I just drink hot water throughout the day with chia seeds which gives you some energy. Rob Marsh: Ah, sure I haven’t tried that. I mean I’m not I’m not criticizing it, it’s different. So yeah, giving up caffeine like that’s my one vice and that would be—I don’t know—I have done it before you know where I’ve gone months or whatever. Kira Hug: That’s hard. Rob Marsh: I know I can do it, but I also just like having a Coke Zero. It’s kind of my treat during the day. Kira Hug: Yeah, it’s hard because I enjoy drinking a latte or coffee or tea. I enjoy that process, the ritual. I enjoy going to coffee shops. But also you can go to coffee shops and get a decaf. So that’s why I’m drinking hot water. I’m trying to stay hydrated. Rob Marsh: Awesome! Well I mean it’s funny you mentioned that because as we were putting togeth

The 368th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is all about what we learned from participating in the Copy Legends Lock-in Event, The Top One Mastermind, TCC IRL in London and our own Think Tank Retreat in London. There’s something in this episode for everyone, from copywriting tips to ideas for better supporting your clients and interacting with members of your team to be more effective. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   Full Transcript: You’ve heard us talk about the impact that masterminds and events can have on your business. It’s why we talk about The Copywriter Think Tank so often. It’s why we organize retreats and IRL events just about every year. And we don’t just say that because we produce our own events. From the beginning of The Copywriter Club, Kira and I have both belonged to several masterminds from people like Brian Kurtz, Jeresia Hawk, and Todd Brown. And we’ve attended events around the country to add to our own business and copywriting skills. Hi, I’m Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And on today’s episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, my co-founder, Kira Hug, who I just mentioned, talked about the four events we attended over the past two weeks—Copy Legends Lock-in, The Top One Mastermind Retreat, The Copywriter Club In Real Life in London, and our own Think Tank retreat in London. We’re sharing our biggest takeaways and what we learned from these awesome experiences. You’ll want to stick around and listen to this episode. But first, this episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is brought to you by The Copywriter Underground. It is truly the best membership for copywriters and content writers… let me just give you an idea of what you get for $87 a month… first there’s a monthly group coaching call with Kira and me where you can get answers to your questions, advice for overcoming any business or client or writing challenge you have. There are weekly copy critiques where we give you feedback on your copy or content. There are regular training sessions on different copy techniques and business practices designed to help you get better. And we’re adding a new monthly AI tool review where we share a new AI tool or a technique or prompt you can do with AI get more done. That’s on top of the massive library of training and templates. And the community is full of copywriters ready to help you with just about anything… including sharing leads from time to time. Find out more at thecopywriterclub.com/tcu And with that, let’s go to our discussion for some of what we’ve learned over the past few weeks. Okay, Kira we are. It’s just you and me today. But we’ve been up to a lot of stuff. Lots been going on the last few weeks so let’s let’s kick it off you know where do you where do you want to start with all the stuff that’s been going on. Kira Hug: Ah I think we should just start with our health… I mean I’m seeing you on the screen and you have a heat pad on your shoulder and you’re in pain and I think we should talk about this. We have been traveling a lot and I don’t know how we physically do it. Travel isn’t necessarily is what triggered your pain, but I think it definitely triggered my cold. I’m a little worn out. I know you’re a little worn out. What’s going on with your arm and shoulder right now? Rob Marsh: Yeah, well we were in London for an IRL event and a Think Tank Retreat but I went a few days early just to do a little bit of traveling around England with my wife and some friends that we have there. I woke up Sunday morning in massive pain. It was the most pain I’ve ever felt. I could barely move… it was hard to dress myself. It was it was awful and I didn’t really know what was going on. I felt a little bit better the next day. Although it hurt all week long I didn’t want to go to the emergency room, simply because we were on vacation. We had our friends there then we had the retreat and everything was going on with without so once I got home I went to my doctor and he has diagnosed me with a slipped disc which I guess the the medical term for it is a C5 Cervical Radiculopathy. And it’s just a slipped disc and it is incredibly painful. I’ve got some physical therapy that I’m working on trying to fix it. Hopefully we don’t need surgery. It’s a really good reminder of when people are feeling pain—how desperate they are for solutions. This is something we talk about in copywriting all the time. You want to you want to start your copy by focusing in on the pain or the problem or the thing that your prospect needs and the the more impactful and deeper felt pains that people have, you know we help them solve that. We identify what that pain is, we empathize with the pain that they’re feeling, then present solutions. You know if a doctor had come along while we were in the retreat with a unique mechanism an

On the 367th episode of The Copywriter Club, Russ Henneberry joins the show to chat all about SEO. Russ is the founder of theCLIKK, a free daily email newsletter covering digital business topics. He shares strategies copywriters can use to increase website traffic and how they can keep up with the evolving digital marketing landscape. It’s an episode you’ll want to keep handy. Here’s what you’ll find out: How Russ went from teacher to marketer and SEO expert. When he was introduced to the world of digital marketing and SEO. Why skills like content marketing and copywriting are essential in today’s landscape. The impact of AI on search behavior and the everchanging search experience. What copywriters can do to optimize their chances of ranking in online searches. How to customize dedicated webpages for various niches to increase discoverability. What is link building and why is it important? Why your content needs to be thorough and how to create a content strategy for your business. Paid advertising vs. organic search… How can they coexist? Should you productize your services? What kind of clients are willing to pay premium rates? The difference between you and the in-house employee. What is the theCLIKK and how do they leverage evolving marketing techniques to scale? Tune into the episode by hitting play below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Join The Copywriter Underground Kira’s website Rob’s website Russ’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Free month of Brain.FM AI for Creative Entrepreneurs Podcast Full Transcript:    

On the 366th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, website copywriter and niche extraordinaire, Masha Koyen joins the show. We walk through Masha’s journey from a demanding corporate marketing career to a thriving copywriting business. She shares her “REVEAL” framework, a six-step process that helps her attract high-value clients, and how copywriters can build their business from scratch. Tune into the episode to find out more about: Masha’s transition from corporate marketing director to website copywriter for interior designers. When do you know it’s time to pivot or go off on your own? How she unexpectedly gained her first clients and how she markets her business today. Burnout after 3 months?! How she navigated the early stages of entrepreneurship. How she decided to niche down both vertically and horizontally. Her methods to delving into her audience’s pain points and challenges. Where she found clients in a hyper-specific market and how she began to stand out. The key to finding differentiating factors within competitive niches. Her six-step framework for strategic website copywriting. The importance of having a framework in your business. What’s a CEO retreat and how can it benefit your overall well-being? How can you gain access to higher-level clients? The impact of The Copywriter Think Tank on Masha’s business. Tune into the episode by hitting the play button below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Join The Copywriter Underground Kira’s website Rob’s website Masha’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Free month of Brain.FM AI for Creative Entrepreneurs Podcast Full Transcript:    

On the 365th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Rob and Kira sit down with seasoned copywriter, John Bejakovic. With a background in IT, John made his way into copywriting and now has a daily email newsletter. This episode dives into the underlying principles that make copywriting effective and how copywriters can position themselves in an evolving industry. Here’s how the conversation goes: Why do marketers gatekeep this book? All will be revealed – no gatekeeping here. How a 500-word blog post changed John’s career path. Why he decided to become a published author on Amazon. The importance of having an email list. When should you pivot your business? Why an email list is the fastest way to grow as a copywriter. Should you create a niche-specific newsletter? (plus how to decide which niche to focus on) John’s monetization strategy and how he’s grown his newsletter. How do magic, persuasion, and copywriting overlap and work together? What’s the push-and-pull technique? Why Jaws is the perfect example of teasing and how to use it in your emails. How to include anticipation for future emails. Don’t forget about proof – how it increases credibility. The effectiveness of transparent copywriting. The future of copywriting and the use of AI. Tune into the episode below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Join The Copywriter Underground Kira’s website Rob’s website Join John’s list John’s website Derren Brown’s book Tricks of the Mind The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Free month of Brain.FM AI for Creative Entrepreneurs Podcast Full Transcript:    

Lauren Hermann is our guest on the 364th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Lauren is a speech-language pathologist (SLP) turned copywriter who now owns and operates The Copy Clinicians, a small copywriting agency for the healthcare industry. Lauren’s journey from scrub life to “scribe” life has led to surprising results and a desire to teach other clinicians how to become copywriters in their niche. Listen to the episode to find out: How writing a book on speech-language pathology introduced Lauren to the world of copywriting. The two pitch emails that almost landed her a forward by a renowned surgeon. Why we don’t always need a ‘yes’ to be successful. How to take rejection and thrive. What do people misunderstand about speech-language pathology? How SLPs and copywriters are similar and how Lauren merges the two worlds. The importance of looking at objective and subjective data. How she found her first set of clients on Upwork and through a Facebook post. Why she niched into writing for SLPs and how it’s helped her build her micro-agency. Can you pivot and still be relevant to your audience? The pros and cons of working as a copywriter and SLP. How The Think Tank has helped her business and improved her copywriting confidence. We don’t know what we don’t know – how can we build awareness around improving copy for our audience?Hit the play button below to tune in. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Join The Copywriter Underground Kira’s website Rob’s website Lauren’s website Join Lauren’s course waitlist The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Free month of Brain.FM AI for Creative Entrepreneurs Podcast Full Transcript:    

On the 363rd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Eden Bidani hops on the show to chat all things conversion, sales conversations, and pitching prospects. Eden is a conversion copywriter and messaging strategist who uses her anthropology background to get to the root message that’ll attract the right customers to the right offer. Tune into the episode to find out: How Eden went from selling cosmetics to writing blogs. Why she slowly raised her prices and how it built her confidence. Here’s the truth about pitching and some practical advice you can apply. Why you need to be emotionally distant from your pitches. The importance of making promises you know you can keep and how it can impact your business. Should you start doing this in your sales calls? How to guide your sales calls while letting your prospect take the lead. The process for writing an advertorial. How her background in anthropology has shaped her research process. Are you reading between the lines while conducting research? How her business is currently structured to support her lifestyle. Messaging vs. copywriting – what’s the difference and how it can be the key to increasing conversions? When you want to do it all, remember this. Hit play to listen to the episode. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Join The Copywriter Underground Kira’s website Rob’s website Connect with Eden The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Free month of Brain.FM AI for Creative Entrepreneurs Podcast Full Transcript:    

On the 362nd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Alex Thompson takes the mic to chat all things LinkedIn. Alex is a website and email copywriter who gains the majority of his clients on LinkedIn by creating parody content. You’ll walk away from this episode with tangible steps you can use to create a LinkedIn strategy that works for you. Tune into the episode to discover: How Alex went from teacher to farm worker to copywriter. Why it’s okay to leave a profession you thought was your end all be all. Alex’s discovery of The Copywriter Club Podcast, and how it helped him grow his business. How he uses LinkedIn as his primary source to find clients. The significance of curating the right kind of LinkedIn feed for your mental state. How to embrace the “sucky” beginnings of anything new. Why every copywriter needs to acquire this trait. Offers you can service and skill stack to gain clients. What most copywriters get wrong when they start their business. His marketing strategy on LinkedIn and how you can make it your own. Why you need to be ridiculously yourself on any platform you choose. What’s in a successful LinkedIn profile? What new and seasoned copywriters need to keep in mind. Not finding clients on LinkedIn? This could be why. Where you need to spend more time on LinkedIn. How to effectively close sales calls (and with ease). The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Alex’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM AI for Creative Entrepreneurs Podcast Full Transcript:    

Abi Prendergast is our guest on the 361st episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Abi is a copywriter and evergreen funnel strategist for course creators who are tired of the never-ending cycles of live launches. She shares actionable advice copywriters can use in their own businesses or for their clients. Abi’s early beginnings on Upwork and how she got kicked off the platform. How she uses Facebook groups to land and secure clients. Why she decided to invest in herself and her business. The switch she made from live launching to evergreen launching. The truth behind a “bad” launch and how to learn from it. How she increased her rates after 30 sales pages and hundreds of emails. What’s the real reason behind an unsuccessful launch? The power behind having a strategic mindset. Why you cannot ignore feedback loops and how they’ll increase conversions. How talking to the wrong people can make great copy fall flat. Tune into the episode by hitting the play button. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Join the Accelerator The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Abi’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM AI for Creative Entrepreneurs Podcast Full Transcript:    

Ali Rector joins the show on the 360th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Ali is a cycle-syncing coach and copywriter who gained her expertise from years of agency copywriting. She sheds light on the importance of not letting your ego interfere with your work and how to build a strong creative process to become the best copywriter you can be. Tune into the episode to find out: How Ali quickly grew her skillset and became a lead agency copywriter Her path from agency copywriter to freelance copywriter. The follow-up email that landed her a high-paying contract. The ins and outs of the creative process at an agency. How to communicate your vision to your team. What characteristics make copywriters successful? Why it’s a good thing for everyone to have a different creative process. How to spark creativity as a freelance copywriter. Why she decided to pivot into coaching and how she made the transition. How The Copywriter Accelerator helped Ali build her business. Why community is absolutely essential as a freelancer The balance between intuition and logic. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Join the Accelerator The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Connect with Ali The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM AI for Creative Entrepreneurs Podcast Full Transcript:    

Erica Salm Rench is our guest on the 359th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Erica is the COO of Rasa.io, an AI tool used to personalize and streamline email newsletters. She shares insights about the world of AI and how although there’s no slowing it down, how copywriters can use AI to optimize their systems and processes in their own businesses and use it as a competitive edge in a crowded marketplace. Here’s what you’ll find: What exactly is Rasa.io, and how does it work? Why email is still powerful and why you need an email newsletter. The importance of client feedback and how AI can streamline your process. How to incorporate the use of AI in your business model and packages. The similarities between a sales conversation and offering value. Do your discovery questions need a facelift? How to intertwine human relationships with the use of AI. Need a reason to create a bank of content? Here’s why. How to repurpose your content and save yourself time and energy. How to dig beneath the surface and get customer feedback that matters. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Accelerator waitlist The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Rasa.io The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM AI for Creative Entrepreneurs Podcast Full Transcript:    

On the 358th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, we’re covering all things law and your business. Taylor Tieman, Esq. joins the show to give copywriters actionable steps they can take to legally protect their business. Legal is an unavoidable part of running a business, and Taylor breaks it down in an approachable way. Tune into the episode to find out: The pitfalls of not having a proper contract in place. The difference between owning your copy and the right to use it in your portfolio. Can you have 50/50 ownership of the copy you write? What is an intellectual property clause and how can you add it to your contract? What if you need to end the project abruptly? The specific clauses copywriters need to have in their contracts. When do you actually need to enforce the contract? LLC vs. S-Corp: Which one is right for your business? The 3 most important legal aspects to protect your business. Why you may need a trademark and the different levels of filing. AI and legal… A lawyer’s input. How to better protect your clients’ private info from AI. What about privacy policies and terms and conditions? How to be GDPR compliant. Is there a problem with using “re:” as a subject line Hit play to listen to the episode below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Accelerator waitlist The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Taylor’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM AI for Creative Entrepreneurs Podcast Full Transcript:    

Angela Morris is our guest on the 357th episode of The Copywriter Club. Angela is a makeup artist turned copywriter and digital marketing strategist who teaches her clients how to quiet quit Instagram, so they can save time and energy in their businesses. This episode breaks down her strategy and framework for how to take a step back from social media while continuing to grow your impact and your business. Here’s what you’ll find in the episode: How to solve problems your audience actually is struggling with. Where she found her first set of social media clients in the midst of losing all her makeup industry gigs. Why you should channel what makes you angry. Is palatable still sellable? How she went from writing captions to strategizing business messaging. The importance of having good perception as a copywriter. What is Quiet Quitting Instagram? Angela’s strategy for Quiet Quitting Instagram and how it’s affected her business. Is Kira quitting Instagram? The process of creating a successful package and selling it. What happens once your static feed is radio silent? What does the data say? Could Quiet Quitting Instagram be for you? Binge the episode by hitting the play button below.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Accelerator waitlist The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Angela’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM AI for Creative Entrepreneurs Podcast Full Transcript:    

Katelyn Collins joins us on the 356th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. With a background in theater, Katelyn has transferred her many talents into the world of copywriting. Now she writes for 7-figure course creators and is a copywriting educator to those looking to improve their writing chops. Tune into the episode to find out: How an actor ignited a passion for email marketing. What are darlings and how can you cut them in your copy? The importance of throughlines and how they build decisiveness as a copywriter. Katelyn’s inside scoop on what it’s like to work for start–ups. When diving head first into your business… Where do you start to find clients? The delicate balance between being the dreamer and generator in your business. What’s really on the other side of uncomfortable pivots and changes in our lives and businesses? The perspective shift every entrepreneur needs to make. How to recover from burnout and notice when it starts to creep in. Is it still worth it to work with course creators? Her perspective on AI and copywriting and what it means for the changing marketing landscape. How to minimize the amount of airtime your negative thoughts get. The perks of working with 7-figure business owners and a few things to look out for. Katelyn’s 4 P’s and how it’ll help you land more clients. Why you need to include potential objections inside your project pitch. How to be more decisive in your business. Her method for nipping writing procrastination in the bud. Listen to the episode or check out the transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Accelerator waitlist The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Katelyn’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM AI for Creative Entrepreneurs Podcast Full Transcript:    

On the 355th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob take the mic to talk about the 5 critical moves copywriters need to make to build, grow, and scale a successful copywriting business. If this year has got you questioning your business, this episode is for you. Here’s what you’ll learn: How to “flip the switch” in your business. What successful copywriters know that struggling copywriters don’t. Why you need to build an operating system to support your goals. How to define your X-factor… The very thing that makes you stand out. The steps to create your ideal client and discover the problems they want to be solved. How to find the right pricing model for your business. Why having a signature service will make you more revenue. The importance of processes and systems and how to begin to build them. Why systems are the solution to imposter complex. How to improve your sales skills without feeling sleazy. The 4 mistakes copywriters are making in growing their business. How to actually find higher-paying clients who recognize your value. Why you need to implement these 4 levers to make your business run more efficiently. How to radically change your business in just 5 months. Tune into the episode by hitting play or checking out the transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Accelerator waitlist The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM AI for Creative Entrepreneurs Podcast Full Transcript:    

Brenna McGowan is our guest on the 354th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Brenna is a social media manager turned email copywriter and launch strategist who helps her clients implement prelaunch methods that generate greater awareness and sales. If you want to create natural momemtum before your launch, you’ll want to listen to Brenna’s behind-the-curtain insights. Here’s what you’ll find: Why Brenna transitioned from social media marketing to email marketing. How she repositioned her business in a new industry and grew an online presence. The process she created for validating her offer and expertise. Why she niched into prelaunch and how it can benefit the overall launch of a product or service. What’s so important about your “why?” What are you supposed to do after you pivot your business? Being good at things vs being passionate about them. How Brenna uses the LEAP process to help entrepreneurs find their sweet spot to achieve their goals. What’s working with prelaunch now? Why you’re really feeling overwhelmed by prelaunch and how to stop it. How to build your email list before you launch. Her inspiration behind creating a different style event aka The Voxer Summit. A behind-the-scenes look at her client launch based on her CASE method. How she packages her offers and positions herself as a strategist. What if you only have 3 hours before your next launch? The easier way to create natural momentum for your business. Tune into the episode to learn all of this and more. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Accelerator waitlist The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Brenna’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM AI for Creative Entrepreneurs Podcast Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: If you’ve dreamed of building a copywriting business that earns five figures a month, there are certain types of projects that make reaching that goal a lot easier. And at the top of that list of projects is product launches, that is, helping clients sell a course or a membership or another kind of product, with a combination of strategy emails, landing pages, ads and sales pages. A single launch project can pay a good copywriter a lot of money. Hi, I’m Rob Marsh. Kira Hug: And I’m Kira Hug. And we’re the founders and hosts of the Copywriter Club podcast. Our guest for today’s episode is copywriter and launch strategist Brenna McGowan. In just the past couple of years, Brenna has become a leader in the launch world, helping clients sell more and teaching copywriters and other marketers how to put together more successful launches. Rob Marsh: But there’s a lot more to a successful launch than a bunch of emails and sales pages. Brenna shared with us how she thinks about the days or weeks immediately before a launch and what you should be doing to prime your audience so that they’re ready to buy when you launch. She also shared her thoughts about pivoting your business, validating offers and ethical marketing practices. We think you’re going to like what you had to share. Kira Hug: But first, and speaking of priming your audience so they’re ready to buy when you launch a product, which is what we are trying to do, this is part of our pre-launch strategy, hopefully we nail it, the Copywriter Accelerator is coming up soon. The doors will be open soon. This is our signature business-building program for copywriters and content writers where we help you put together the most critical eight components of your business, the eight parts that you need in order to build a profitable business. And we’ve had success story after success story with some of the most internet-famous copywriters that you may have heard of, and it’s coming up soon. So if you want to learn about this program and what it consists of and how it could help you in your business, you can learn more at thecopywriteraccelerator.com. Okay, let’s kick off our episode with Brenna. Brenna McGowan: I originally started off as a social media manager back in 2018, and I didn’t even realize that’s what I was doing. I was doing some odd jobs on the side. I was a stay-at-home mom, and I had a friend who was starting a new business and she was an esthetician, and I was like, “Hey, why don’t I do your Instagram?” Which by the way, I’ve never done Instagram before. Why don’t I do your Instagram and email marketing and you give me eyelashes? So I always joke, I started my business out of vanity. I wanted fake eyelashes. And so I started doing her social media and email marketing, and what I started to notice was that we were getting attention, and people were asking her who was doing this? And I was like, gosh, this could be a business. And so I created a business doing social media. I agonized over the logo and the website, and I announced myself on social m

On the 353rd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Lindsay Hyatt joins the show to talk about how to make strategic pivots in your business and step into the spotlight with confidence. Lindsay is a copywriter and empowerment coach who helps her clients build a stand-out personal brand. Before she built her business, she worked in radio ads and healthcare marketing, and she was a 5th-grade teacher before jumping ship to start her own blog, so she knows a thing or two about making big pivots. Listen in to find out: How do you know when it’s time to pivot in your business… or life? The steps Lindsay took to meet her salary within a couple of months. How to create a writing habit and build your portfolio. The benefits of setting aside your pride and putting yourself out there. What’s the key to building a personal brand? Her Instagram philosophy for growth and building an audience. What to do when it’s hard to show up on social media. General content pillars vs rigid content calendar – which one is for you? How to stand out on LinkedIn. Why she chose to niche horizontally vs vertically. The reality of creating a new arm in your business. How to grow your visibility with intention and mindset. Want to gain clarity and perspective? Follow this step. Why she started a podcast and how it’s shifting her business. What happens when we challenge our beliefs? The benefits of creating an alter ego and stepping into the spotlight. How Rob’s email was the tough love she (and we) all needed to hear. Hit that play button or check out the transcript below.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Accelerator waitlist The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Lindsay’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM AI for Creative Entrepreneurs Podcast Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: There’s a saying that gets thrown around occasionally in the business world that goes something like this: We overestimate what we can get done in a day and we underestimate what we can accomplish in a year, which is probably why we often feel like we don’t get much done as we work through our days. But when we look back to where we were last year or the year before, we are amazed at some of the changes that we’ve seen and experienced. Hi, this is Rob Marsh. Kira Hug: And I’m Kira Hug. Rob Marsh: And we are the founders and hosts of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Our guest for today’s episode is copywriter and copy coach Lindsay Hyatt. Over the past two years, Lindsay has experienced some big changes in her business. As we chatted with her, she shared a few of the things that she’s done that made all of the difference: activities like showing up regularly on social media, creating personal connections with their network, and exploring new opportunities for serving her clients. They’re small things, but they produce really big results. In short, she puts in the reps, so stick around to hear what she has to share about her business. Kira Hug: But first, this episode is sponsored by The Copywriter Accelerator, which is our signature business building program that we are running in the fall for four months in the fall. And Lindsay actually is an alumni member of that program, so she’ll speak to a little bit of that program and the benefits, and you can hear from this conversation how it’s helped her in her business. If you have any interest in learning more about that program and the eight-part framework we work through in that program that will help build the foundation of your business, you can learn more at our wait list page, which is at thecopywriterclub.com/accelerator-waitlist. We’ll link to it in the show notes so you can jump over there and get your name on the list if you want to explore that program with us this fall. Let’s kick off our episode with Lindsay Hyatt. Lindsay Hyatt: Well, I have a winding road, but it started with copywriting, which I feel like not many copywriters say. So I started as a copywriter in radio, which was my first job out of college, and I wrote radio commercials for four different stations, all completely different genres. So that was the beginning of learning about brand voice for me. And I love that. And then from there I kind of got deeper into marketing as a whole and learning about creating campaigns and launching campaigns for different industries. So at the time I was actually in healthcare marketing, which is a whole different game. I really love the creativity part of it, but what I didn’t love right off the bat was feeling like I didn’t know what I was doing, and I didn’t really have a lot of guidance in the first few jobs that I had. So I actually had, unfortunately, some bad work environment experiences that really molded the early parts of my career in marketing and it made me run in the other direction. So I actually took a break from marke

Chris Mason is our guest on the 352nd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Chris is a direct-response marketer who wrote a companion book to Breakthrough Advertising by Eugene Schwartz called, Breakthrough Advertising Mastery. Chris breaks down his process for writing this book and he gives actionable tips for copywriters can use today. Tune into the episode to find out: What similarities are there between songwriting and direct response marketing? Why you need to build your “sitting down” muscle. How Chris landed Brian Kurtz as a client and how their partnership grew. What is the 40/40/20 mix? The best process for context switching and juggling multiple projects at a time. How to get better at decision-making and what that means for your business. Determining your audience’s mass desire and understanding market sophistication. When do you incorporate a unique mechanism? Two techniques to better understand your audience and their needs. How to build the stream of acceptance and shift current beliefs. How to break things down into actionable steps for your audience. What’s a profit partner and what’s involved? Tune into the episode by hitting play or checking out the transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Chris’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM AI for Creative Entrepreneurs Podcast Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: If you’ve been a copywriter for more than a few days, you’ve almost certainly been told that the preeminent copywriting book that you absolutely have to read, maybe even read over and over, is Eugene Schwartz’s Breakthrough Advertising. A few years ago when the book was out of print, it wasn’t uncommon to see a single copy of Breakthrough Advertising selling on eBay for close to a thousand dollars. And it is a good book, even a must read for serious copywriters, but it’s not the easiest book to read or understand. Hi, I’m Rob Marsh and my co-host of The Copywriter Club podcast is Kira Hug, and our guest for this episode is copywriter and marketing strategist Chris Mason. Chris spent much of the last two years writing a companion volume for Eugene Schwartz’s book called Breakthrough Advertising Mastery. It makes learning the concepts that Eugene Schwartz taught in that book a lot easier to learn. And Chris tell us which concepts of the book he thinks are most important during this interview. He also shared his thoughts about songwriting, juggling multiple large projects at the same time, and what it takes to help shift a prospect’s belief so they can buy. Kira Hug: But first, this episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Accelerator, which is actually coming up pretty soon. We have a nice little wait list you can jump on that we’ll link to if you have any interest in this program. And hopefully you do have some interest in this program. Rob, why should someone listening be interested in this program? Rob Marsh: So if you are a new copywriter, a newish copywriter, or a copywriter that is trying to make a shift in your business in some way, we’ve actually designed this to help you go through all of those steps so that you can lay the foundation for successful business, including figuring out what niche you serve, who your exact ideal client is, what kinds of services and products they will actually buy, how you position yourself so that they want to hear from you, how you get yourself out into the world, how you price things. All of that is wrapped up into this one, I don’t want to call it a course because it’s not really a course, but it’s a cohort based group program you go through with several other copywriters, all who are working through the same assignments. You start to create your own network and there’s just a ton of bonuses stacked on top of it as well. There’s so many reasons to join. I’m actually surprised everybody hasn’t joined yet. It’s only a little bit tongue in cheek. Kira Hug: Yeah, we clearly drank our own Kool-Aid. Yeah, and if you think about some of my favorite copywriters working today, some of the ones who I feel like are the smartest, the most creative out there, many of them have been through The Copywriter Accelerator program. Whether or not you realize that they’ve been through the entire program and really focused on their positioning and everything Rob just mentioned, niching, packaging, which has helped them get to that level where they are so successful because they’ve been so intentional about it. They didn’t just happen to fall into their business. They were intentional about all those micro-decisions and thinking through what they’re building along the way. And you can do that too. If you want to be intentional about what you’re building, you can look into The Copywriter Accelerator a

Jess Kelly is our guest on the 351st episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. She is a copywriter who helps conscientious brands build authentic and true-to-them businesses through brand and marketing strategies. From shifts in careers and misdiagnoses, Jess’s journey highlights the benefits of personal growth and becoming different and new versions of yourself along the way. Listen to the episode to find out: Why Jess dropped out of journalism. Experimentation vs expectation – why does it matter? The permission slip you need to give yourself – like yesterday. How she fell into copywriting and her career paths to get there. The 10-minute call that landed her inside of The Copywriter Accelerator. What’s the secret to building better interview skills? Why you need to start showing up and how it’s going to pay off. The diagnoses that helped Jess make sense of her identity and experience. How to connect with more people in your network. What kinds of relationships should we really be building? The best thing about becoming a new version of yourself. Tune into the episode by hitting play or checking out the transcript below.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Jess’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM AI for Creative Entrepreneurs Podcast Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: Connecting with others and creating a relationship with the people around you is a critical part of building a sustainable copywriting business. If you’re not connecting regularly with people that you might work with someday, you will eventually run out of clients. To talk about how we don’t let that happen to you, and speaking of creating connections and relationships, hi, we’re Rob Marsh and Kira Hug, the hosts of the Copywriter Club Podcast. And Kira, I’m pretty sure that’s the very first time we’ve ever said our names in the intro. Kira Hug: Yeah, I’m, Kira Hug. It feels good to finally share that with the world. Why did it take us so long? Rob Marsh: 350 episodes and we’ve been hiding back there. But now that we’ve established this relationship, we’re thrilled to introduce our guest for this episode, who is copywriter, Jess Kelly. And Jess shared how she discovered copywriting, how neurodiversity impacts how she works and sees the world, and what she does to connect with others in this interview. It’s an activity that attracts new clients to her business and an idea that we can all steal or borrow and use in our own businesses. Stick around to hear what Jess shared. Kira Hug: But first, this episode is sponsored by the Copywriter Accelerator, which is our business building system that we put together for copywriters and content writers like you to figure out how to put the foundation of your business together so that you know how to attract the right clients. You know what to focus on in your business. You have your positioning dialed in, so what makes you different from every other writer out there. Your signature package and even a starter package that you can sell and introduce to the world. You’ve nailed down your pricing, you know how to show up and where to show up to build your visibility and so much more. And so it’s really everything you need to run and grow a copywriting business. And it’s all one program, so you get all of it bundled together, and Rob and I walk you through the entire program along with an incredible group of generous writers who will do it alongside you. So we’re kicking that off in just a few weeks. And if you have any interest or you’ve heard about it before and you want to learn more about the Copywriter Accelerator, you can learn more at thecopywriteraccelerator.com and sign up there to get on the waitlist if you want to receive updates when we do officially open the doors to it. Okay, let’s kick off our episode with Jess Kelly. Jess, so excited to have you here. And I know I personally can’t wait to hear your story. So how did you end up as a copywriter? Jess Kelly: I stumbled into copywriting when I went to journalism right out of high school and very quickly left. I did not like the way reporting was done, it felt like there was a lot of bias and the way they were training us, it looked like they were basically training us to incorporate bias and skewed sort of news, it didn’t feel good. And then I didn’t want to be an observer. They told me I had to be an observer, not a participant. It didn’t feel good, but I’m a writer, and so they also told me if I wrote novels, I would starve. And so I ended up in food service and fast-forward, I trained as a nurse, but I have a wimpy immune system. So that was a no go. But I learned a lot there about interacting with people and creating that rapport and being able to talk to them about really deep and person

350 episodes and over 1.5 million downloads later, Rob and Kira sit down to chat about… pitching (and phones?). From setting intentions for a new season to setting your business up for success in Q3, you’ll walk away from this episode with ideas and actionable steps you can use right now in your business. Catch up with Rob and Kira to find out: The sure-fire way to gain clients in Q3. How Kira’s flip-phone project is going. Creating a theme for a new season. What summer on this side of the globe means for Rob and Kira. What’s new with TCC this summer? The do’s and don’t’s of pitching and why copywriters need to focus on this instead. Is your ego getting in the way of new clients? What business activities can help you come out of a slow season? How are copywriters getting paid right now? What’s new on the AI for Creative Entrepreneurs podcast? The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Underground Annual Membership –> Get P7 for Free The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM AI for Creative Entrepreneurs Podcast Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: I am Rob Marsh. Kira Hug: I am Kira Hug, and we are the host of the Copywriter Club podcast. We are the host who did not introduce ourselves for 350 episodes or at least 340 episodes. We did not ever introduce ourselves. Rob Marsh: We fixed that. We’re here. This is just a conversation between you and me, Kira and Rob, and hopefully if you’re tuning into this episode, you’re interested in some of the updates that we have coming up, but we also want to talk a little bit about what’s going on in the economy and the industry and what’s working for people right now. We’ll get to that in just a minute as well. Kira, let’s kick this off. I was talking to our team just the other day. We literally hit 80 degrees for maybe the second time this year a couple days ago, Summer finally started here. Let’s just talk about our summer plans. What’s going on with you this summer? Kira Hug: Yeah, I will have some travel in July. I know you and I are both traveling in July and my travel includes actually staying within my state and staying at a couple cabins in Maine, in the woods and just having more of a rustic experience. I know you have a trip. I think the same week I’m gone. I don’t even know where you’re going. Rob Marsh: My daughter is playing in Junior Olympics water polo tournament. We are going to turn that travel into a little bit of a beach vacation. We’re going to spend a couple days at the beach, maybe check out an amusement park one day. My kids are older. The Disney Land, Disney World type thing doesn’t really work for us anymore. Kira Hug: That’s so sad. Rob Marsh: Rollercoasters are still fun and paying for overpriced amusement park food, we might do that one day, but I think we’re going to spend a lot of time sitting with our toes in the sand listening to the waves crash on the beach because we don’t get that here a whole lot in Salt Lake. Kira Hug: Yeah, that’ll be nice. It’s really sad to think that they’ve already outgrown Disney like that. I don’t know, that crushes me. Rob Marsh: It happens, but it’s good. Different things, different strokes for different times of life. It’ll just be me, my daughters and my wife and I will be sitting on the beach reading, splashing around a little bit and having a good time. Kira Hug: What is your vacation style. When you’re on vacation, some people are really well planned and they have every moment planned, lots of activities. Some people just kick back and just want to chill on the sofa with the book. Rob Marsh: I’m the chill. I do not love to go into it with tons of plans. I’m okay with a, “Hey, on Tuesday we’re going to go to the beach. On Wednesday, we’re going to go see the Angels play.” Or whatever. I hate having everything scheduled out and I do not feel like every moment of a vacation needs to be doing something. The point of my vacations is to rest. I like to just lounge around and do nothing. How about you? Kira Hug: So many questions about how to vacation properly because I think vacationing is hard. It takes me a while to get into vacation mode and by that time it’s over. So do you just flip a switch and you’re like, “Cool. I’m on vacation mode. Everything feels good.” I really struggle with it. Rob Marsh: I don’t know. I’ll still write emails while I’m on vacation. I have a really hard time stepping away from that stuff. Kira Hug: You enjoy that. Rob Marsh: Yeah, I enjoy it. It’s okay. What’s bad is when you’re on vacation with another couple or another family or another person whose vacation style is not your style. We have some really good f

On the 349th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Michelle Pollack joins the show to completely shatter your perception of the inner critic and how something as “simple” as values can truly change how you show up in your life and business. Michelle is an Executive and Leadership Coach who shares her expertise in how to give yourself permission to play bigger and live the life you desire. Follow along to find out: How Michelle was able to change the neural pathways in her brain. What to do when the “is this all there is” feeling pops up and how to step out of it. The importance of values and how to define them for yourself. Can you have too many values and how to prioritize values for different seasons of life? Is there such a thing as balance? How to LIVE within your values once you’ve actually identified them despite life’s responsibilities. The #1 barrier to facing your own inner critic. 7 ways the inner critic could be showing up in your life. How to create awareness around your inner critic. The critical component of working through your inner critic. What’s a “why” and how do you create one? What does compassion got to do with your inner critic? Why is messy action better than no action? The reality of shifting into new identities. How are you supposed to sit in difficult emotions? Leadership vs power: what’s the difference? How to lead with your values. Tune into the episode by hitting play or reading the transcript below.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Michelle’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM AI for Creative Entrepreneurs Podcast Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: At some point in your business or life you’ve probably thought a bit about your values. What’s really important to you as a human, as a copywriter, maybe as a parent or a friend or a sibling, or any of the other roles that you fill in your life. What’s really important? Some of the stuff isn’t easy to figure out, it takes time and deep thinking, and that’s why we invited our guest for today’s episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast to join us, that’s Michelle Pollack, and Michelle is a leadership and mindset coach for executives. We asked her about figuring out our values, setting the right goals and dealing with the inner critic that won’t leave us alone, and her answers are directly applicable to your business and success. Kira Hug: But first, this episode is brought to you by the P7 Client Attraction Pipeline, which is our client acquisition system. And anytime we survey our community of lovely copywriters, we ask you what do you want? And you say, I need help finding clients, I need a prospecting system. So we put it together and we continue to improve and add to it so that it works for copywriters based on what’s happening in the marketplace today. And inside the Pipeline Prospecting System we have over 21 pitching templates, so there’s different styles you can use, different templates you can pull from based on what works for you. There are also different tools and pitch tracking templates that you can pull from so that you… It’s really easy to start pitching tomorrow and you don’t have to reinvent everything from scratch. And there are also a ton of other templates and tools and resources inside the system that other copywriters have used to find new clients. So, we wanted to make it really easy for you to just get up and running and find those clients, especially during weird recession times like right now, where it feels a little tricky. And so if you are looking for something like that, you can learn more at thecopywriterclub.com/p7. Okay, let’s kick off our episode with Michelle. How did you end up as an executive coach slash leadership coach slash mindset coach? How did you get here? Michelle Pollack: So I ended up where I am because I felt like crap about myself for a really long time. I thought I was going to be an actress. I went to school for acting, I was convinced I was going to be a star. In eighth grade I told everybody in my class that we were moving to Manhattan for my career. My mom got all sorts of phone calls from people, “Joanne, you’re moving to New York City?” She was like, “No.” I think I was testing out early iterations of manifestation, they didn’t work. But that was it, I was tunnel visioned. And then I got to New York City. I mean, I did some performing after college in Chicago. I went to Northwestern, I did all the shows. And then I moved to New York and I did… I auditioned, I did some summer theater and I was on the track and I was at a callback for a national tour of Annie Get Your Gun, and I was cartwheeling across the room at the callback and I was like, “Oh my God, I don’t want to cartwheel across the stage eight shows a week, this i

Dan Nelken is our guest on the 348th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Dan is a copywriter and author of A Self-Help Guide for Copywriters. If you’re a creative, you may have fallen into the inner critic rabbit hole that keeps you in a cycle of stuck. But Dan gives practical and actionable steps to move away from creative burnout and into a process that helps you turn surface-level ideas into substance. Tune into the episode to find out: Dan’s experience in ad school and how it shaped his expertise and portfolio. The grind that turned into a sustainable copywriting career. How to come up with ideas without letting self-doubt, inner critic, and the feeling of stuck get in the way. The bucket exercise – how to trick your brain into creating ideas. What’s the creative process and what tools are useful? The two reasons procrastination is keeping you from total creativity. Why you should use AI to feel inspired rather than disposable. How to create a swipe folder system and maximize it. Do you have a habit of following through? How to make your emotions work for you. The variety of work copywriters can do and industries they can dive into. How to keep your business alive without feeling resentful and burned out. Creativity outside of writing – how do we do it? How Dan’s been able to scale back his client projects by 40%. Listen to the episode or check out the transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Dan’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM AI for Creative Entrepreneurs Podcast Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: Creativity is a big part of your work as a copywriter. Whether you’re coming up with new angles for leads and headlines or new ideas for content or new approaches for pitches to prospects who you want to work with, creativity plays a big part in all of that, which begs the question, can creativity be systematized? Can processes and formulas help you be more creative? Those approaches feel a little bit uncreative to me, but our guest for this episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Dan Nelken, and Dan is here to correct that misconception. He shared several details about his creative process that might help make you more creative too. Stick around for this fun conversation. Kira Hug: But before we all get super creative here, we just want to share something special for you. We call it the P7 Client Attraction Pipeline, which is kind of a mouthful. You can call it P7 for short. This is our client acquisition system designed specifically to help copywriters create a prospecting habit. So we want to make it really easy for you to fit prospecting into your day so it feels natural. And so, not only do we cover prospecting tools you can use, we give you a bunch of pitching templates and we continue to kind of add new templates that work for copywriters. We also give you industry niches, 293 specifically, so you can figure out which niches you could tap, especially if you feel like the space you’re working in currently might be slowing down and not hiring. This is where we can be really flexible and explore other niches to find work. And so, we do all of that inside the pipeline and this program along with supporting you with some behavior shifting that can help you really turn this behavior into a habit so it doesn’t become the thing that you try one day and then you stop doing. It does work. We’ve seen copywriters use these tools and these trainings to gain clients, so it’s worth exploring if you don’t have a client attraction pipeline in your business. And you can find out more information, thecopywriterclub.com/p7 to find out more information about this client acquisition system. Until then, let’s kick off our episode with Dan Nelken. Dan Nelken: Yeah, it was kind of like, I think a lot of wrong turns and dead ends. I didn’t grow up being a writer or a creator. I wasn’t even the creative one in my family, I would say my two older brothers were. And so I thought, “Okay, I’ll play sports and be the dumb jock and that’s my job.” And then, it wasn’t until I was a bit older and when the house was quiet and it was just my mom and I, I think she was really my first audience where I was able to explore my creativity and saw that, hey, I’m funny too. I had soaked up a lot from my brothers and I was just always so quiet in the house, but still, I think by the time I finished high school, I went into psychology, which is what my mom did, and my dad, there was just something missing. And then I thought, well, sports, yeah, I’ll go. And I went into sports broadcasting and it was, while I was doing that program, there was a copywriting class for radio and we had to write and produce radio commercials for the school station. I say it was the only class I ever felt seen by a professor, and

On the 347th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Linda Perry makes her FOURTH appearance on the show. This episode acts as a friendly reminder to take care of your mindset especially in times of financial uncertainty and business (and life) plateaus. Linda shares how we can continue to grow our mindset toolbelt, so we can stop getting in our own way. Here’s how the episode goes: How Linda’s work has changed over the last few years. Her dream of moving to Europe and how she made it happen. What’s the challenge with selling something like mindset? The real reason you keep coming back to your mindset struggles. How finding your why will help you craft messaging and communicate better. What tools should copywriters add to their business? Here’s the real problem with continually purchasing courses and programs. The 5 traps keeping you from business confidence. What’s the difference between worth base and value base? Are we telling ourselves a story that keeps us stuck? How to focus on what we can control. Can you be the solution AND the problem in your business? Why Linda paused her podcast and grew her client roster. The importance of having a sounding board. The simple shift that’ll help you save time and energy in your business. Why you shouldn’t be afraid to do something because someone else is doing it. How defining success will keep you from feelings of shame. Is the Think Tank the right program for you? Tune into the episode by hitting play or reading the transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Linda’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM AI for Creative Entrepreneurs Podcast Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: Longtime listeners to this podcast will recognize a recurring topic that we revisit from time to time, and that’s mindset. Your mindset as a copywriter, as a business owner, as a problem solver impacts everything that you do in your work. It often determines whether you land that client that you’ve been dreaming of or hit the goals that you’ve set. And when it comes to mindset, our go-to expert is Linda Perry. She’s the guest for this episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Linda is a mindset coach who has helped hundreds of copywriters deal with the head trash that gets in the way of all of our success. She’s a coach inside the Copywriter Think Tank, and we invited her to talk with us about the challenges facing copywriters, content writers, and other marketers today. Kira Hug: But first, this podcast episode is sponsored by the Copywriter Think Tank. And I’m not going to share a whole lot about the Think Tank because we talk about it with Linda in depth and we talk about a lot of the struggles and wins Copywriter Think Tank members have experienced. Linda is a Think Tank alumni member. So we dive pretty deep into what’s possible with the Think Tank in this episode. So stay tuned and if you like what you’re hearing about the Think Tank and what’s possible, you can learn more at copywriterthinktank.com and jump in there with us. Okay, let’s get into our episode with Linda. All right, so let’s just catch up real quick because you’ve had some big life changes that we were just chatting about. I’m very jealous of these life changes that you’ve made and excited for you. So why don’t we just start with how your life and business has changed over the last year. Linda Perry: Yeah, I could actually just listen to your podcast to track all my changes in life. This would be great. So in the last year, I decided somewhere along the way to pick up and move and leave the States. We now are living in Portugal. I think I’ve expanded my business as well in terms of who I work with. I still really work with copywriters. I work with a lot of marketers. I’ve expanded to work with agencies actually to help them really in some of their team building leadership communications aspects and helping them all play a better role. So that’s been kind of fun. I also do another sort of assessment with people that’s been really fun to do. Lately, as you know, I work on the Enneagram, but I also have been doing this Why Certification that I got, this Why assessment that helps people really understand their why and how they show up and what they do. It’s been really cool because it can be validating. It can show me where people’s blocks are going to be, but it also gives them a really cool marketing message right away. For example, my why is better ways, so I’m always looking for a better way to do things. If you’ve hung out with me, you know that’s probably true. And how I do that is challenging the system. And what I do is build trusting relationships. And so I’ve been working with people on that and it just opens up their mind to think about what

Dr. Rebecca Fortgang is our guest on the 346th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Dr. Becky is a clinical psychologist, an instructor at Harvard Medical School, and a research scientist at Massachusetts General Hospital. Just a light background, huh? Kira knew Dr. Becky had to be on the show after taking her class, and she did not disappoint. Take a peek inside the conversation: Is willpower a muscle? What’s all the debate around willpower? What do willpower and love have in common? Researching topics with inconclusive and incomplete data – this work has to start somewhere. Tools creative entrepreneurs can use to be more productive. Why do people really quit on their goals? What to do when lapses happen and what are they trying to tell us? How to avoid spiraling and what we should do instead. What’s a goal cleanse? Are you a failure if you quit a long-term goal? How to find alternate goals if you can’t let goals go. The clear-cut approach to setting goals and achieving them. What is “gripping the table” self-control and how can we do less of it? How your future self can motivate you in completing your goals TODAY. Is sacrifice needed to attain goals? Strategies to stop procrastinating and how to tap into your willpower. Can you convince yourself to be in the right headspace? How can you prioritize mental health in your life? Tune into the episode to listen to all the insights. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Rebecca’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM AI for Creative Entrepreneurs Podcast Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: Most copywriters we know share an interest in psychology and figuring out what makes people tick. After all, if you’re writing something to convince your prospect to buy or to take some kind of action, you need to understand them. But our interest in psychology often goes well beyond persuasion tactics and mental heuristics. Our guest for today’s episode of The Copywriter Club podcast is Dr. Rebecca Fortgang, who specializes in willpower, goal setting and mental health. Just as a quick side note, she was Kira’s professor last year in a class she took, and I like to point out that it was at Harvard University, the CURE Harvard student. We talked with Rebecca about the ins and outs of willpower, overcoming procrastination, mental health, and a lot more. We think you’re really going to like this episode. Kira Hug: But before we jump in, we are going to promote something because that’s what we do. So today, Rob, I want to talk about our new-ish course, not like brand new but new as in couple months ago. Our AI for copywriters course, which is available to all writers. And the reason I want to mention it today is because we’re adding a certification to it, a prompt engineer certification, because we know as we’ve been talking to a lot of startups, especially on our new podcast, AI for Creative Entrepreneurs, we’re interviewing different startups and they’re talking about the need for prompt engineers and that it’s hard to find prompt engineers right now, and writers are really set up to succeed in that role because we ask good questions. We think about prompting in a creative way, and there is no university that has a prompt engineer program right now. There’s this new need in the marketplace and there aren’t enough people to fill that role. We’re creating the program that you need to train you to not only provide the training, but also to give you a certification, and that usually means a boost of confidence for you to go out there and maybe even update your LinkedIn title to include prompt engineer and maybe even pitch yourself or go after opportunities that you wouldn’t normally have gone after. And so you can work through that certification. It’s not easy. Rob’s making it very difficult to get it, but it’s a tough certification because we want you to feel confident and well-trained before you actually achieve it. Rob Marsh: It’s not easy, but it’s also not honors. It’s not something you’re going to have to sit in a classroom for four or five hours and work through. We teach all the information in the course that you need. As long as you go through that, do the practices, read the prompts and things that we share, you’ll have the information that you need to get that certification. But it’s also not the kind of thing that you’ll be able to just show up and do without doing the work. And that’s really the way certifications should work. So if you want to earn a certification as a prompt engineer, as a copywriter who knows what they’re doing when it comes to writing prompts for large language models like ChatGPT, go to thecopywriterclub.com/ai4c, that is the number four C, and you can find the program there a

Kate Hollis is our guest on the 345th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kate is a copywriter and sales strategist whose alter ego is a librarian, but her skillset doesn’t stop there. Fueled by curiosity, she’s also on track to become a certified Enneagram practitioner. With her “hummingbird” mindset, she emphasizes the value of leading a curiosity-driven life, and how it can lead to a more fulfilling life and business. Here’s how the conversation goes: What’s the bus metaphor and how does it apply to business? Kate’s path to copywriting and owning a business. Why creating connections with others will help you become a better copywriter. How to create an identity outside of your business. Is simple messaging underrated? How to build your intellectual and emotional muscles. What is the Enneagram? How books will help you become a more compassionate salesperson. The benefits of using the Enneagram in your messaging and how it’ll benefit your ideal audience. How the Enneagram can influence your sales funnels. The do’s and don’ts of the Enneagram. Could you be holding yourself back from essential growth? Tune into the episode below or by reading the transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Kate’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM AI for Creative Entrepreneurs Podcast Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: What is it about personality tests that draws us to them? From Myers-Briggs and StrengthsFinder to DiSC and the Enneagram and lots more besides those, humans tend to be attracted to tests and quizzes that promise to reveal something about ourselves and the people around us. Maybe it’s our innate curiosity that drives this behavior. I don’t know. But our guest for today’s episode of The Copywriter Club podcast is copywriter and strategist Kate Hollis. And Kate is a certified Enneagram coach who uses that test a little differently than most other people do, as a way to think about positioning your offers. To hear how she does it, you’re going to have to stay tuned. Kate also talked a bit about the books that she’s read and how to stay curious as a creative. There’s a lot to learn from her in this episode, so stay tuned. Kira Hug: We also talk about poop in this episode, which Rob did not include in the intro, but I think it’s the first time that we’ve ever talked about that. Rob Marsh: Barely. It gets mentioned. Let’s be honest. We didn’t talk about it, mentioned it. Kira Hug: It’s the first time we’ve ever mentioned it on the podcast. Rob Marsh: I think so. Kira Hug: So I think it deserves some attention. Also, this podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Think Tank, which is our mastermind, and I’m going to do something that you’re not supposed to do as a copywriter. We’re supposed to talk about benefits, but I’m going to talk about features today and everything that’s included in the Think Tank. So I’m going to run through it, and Rob, let me know if I’m missing anything. These are the features you get when you join our Think Tank mastermind, which is phenomenal. You get access to our upcoming virtual retreat that is coming up really soon on June 1st and 2nd. It’s not too late. You could actually be a part of that amazing virtual retreat that we put together with at least like eight different speakers talking about a variety of topics, talking about how to use AI in a project from start to finish. What other topics do we have covered, Rob, in the retreat? Rob Marsh: Talking about things like email deliverability, finding clients and how you do that when your business has been going relatively well and then suddenly you hit a tough patch. There’s just such a wide range. I don’t have the list in front of me, unfortunately. Otherwise, I could join you in pimping up some of these speakers that we’ve got lined up. Kira Hug: Well, you’re talking about profit margins. I’m going to talk about my tips for running a business in summer of 2023, what’s working today, what’s no longer working, and so that’s the retreat and that’s coming up and you will definitely want to jump into that retreat. Here’s what else you get when you join us in the Think Tank. Other features, you get a one-hour vision setting session with the two of us where we force you to think really big even though it feels uncomfortable about your business. So the two of us sit down with you for that kickoff session followed by separate focus mapping sessions where I build a map with you so that you have a three-month growth plan and every time we hit three months, we sit down and rebuild it or continue to add on what you’ve already built. So you always have a plan and know what to focus on and know what you can put on the back burner and

Paulo Faustino is our guest on the 344th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Paulo is a serial entrepreneur and digital marketing expert who shares his experience in building and scaling businesses even in the midst of chaos. From writing 550 articles for $100 to scaling a millionaire-dollar business, Paulo shares insights all business owners can glean. Tune into the episode to find out: How a gut feeling kept him on the path to entrepreneurship. How he scaled his business to a million dollars and why it took an extreme hit. The pivot he made to save his business and grow his audience. What is affiliate marketing and how can it benefit your business? How to navigate a financial loss and why fear cannot stop you from moving forward. This reality of business can make or break you. The 4 foundational pieces your business need to thrive. Why marketing and authority go hand in hand? When does the sale really start? The effects of a world-class client experience. Why it’s not your job to fix all your client’s problems (including money mindset). How to filter the types of clients you work with. The simpler and faster way to save time and energy in your business. The ins and outs of Paulo’s social media marketing strategy and how he grew his following and email list to hundreds of thousands. How to bring aligned content to your audience. Why you need to focus on value rather than design. What Paulo would do differently if he could start over. Authority grows when you have these two things. The current struggles of a high-earning entrepreneur. Press play or check out the transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Paulo’s Instagram The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM AI for Creative Entrepreneurs Podcast Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: Building a business is hard. Sometimes things go really well. Clients are plentiful. The work is fun and rewarding, and the money comes in, and other times things don’t go so well. Laws change or the algorithm changes or the economy changes and the client pipeline dries up. The work is hard and the money runs out. Our guest for today’s episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Paulo Faustino, and he built a thriving affiliate business that collapsed in less than a month, thanks to a change in the laws. He had just enough money to last four months, which means that he had to completely rebuild his business in 120 days and in this interview, he tells us how he did it, and along the way, he shares a ton of great business advice for anyone who’s trying to build their own business. Kira Hug: But before we jump into this interview, this podcast is sponsored by the Copywriter Think Tank, which is our mastermind for copywriters who want to figure out a new revenue stream for their business and launch something new that can transform their business in the year ahead. We have a retreat coming up actually in a couple weeks. In early June, we have our next retreat, and if you want to be a part of that mastermind retreat where we bring in top speakers where Rob and I teach and share. Well, Rob, what are you sharing? Rob Marsh: I think we’re going to talk about profits, profit margins, and how do you increase the money that’s coming in, but we’ll cover a lot of other stuff too. We have guests who are speaking about the client buying cycle and how to implement the things that were taught by Eugene Schwartz. We’re pulling in guests to talk about all kinds of things like email and such. So, definitely worth tuning in and learning from all of these experts as well as the super smart people that are already in the think tank. Kira Hug: Yes, so that is coming up in June and if you are listening to this, it is not too late to apply and possibly participate in that upcoming retreat if it’s a good fit for you. So, you can learn more at copywriterthinktank.com. All right, let’s kick off our episode with Paulo. Paulo Faustino: So, I started in 2007 and I started building companies in 2005. I built my first company when I was 19 years old and it was a technology company. We sell computers and all overclocking stuff and water cooling stuff and I started there. I left the company in 2007 and I went home with some bills to pay, and the first thing I searched on Google was how to make money online and that was my start because no one was searching for digital marketing or all that stuff because no one speak spoke about that at the time. So, they were speaking about how to make money online. That was the thing and I started there and I found a lot of really interesting North American stuff from Jeremy Schumacher, from Darren Rose, from John Chow, and a lot of different entrepreneurs that were teaching at a time how to make money online. There was a lot of different strategies like affiliate marketing, like PPC, like a lot of other th

We’re bringing Brittany McBean back for the 343rd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. It’s been 3 years since Brittany’s been on the show and a lot of has changed for her and her business. From highs and lows of building a 6-figure business, she’s completely transparent in her journey and how other copywriters can use her wisdom to grow their own business. Here’s how the conversation goes: Why Brittany works on long projects and what it does for her client retention. The benefits of having a highly-automated inquiry process. Why she’s not looking for a 500k year but this instead. The raw and real downsides of business. Her hiring process – why you need to know what you need and how to hire based on two specific criteria. The imposter complex pops up even for high-level copywriters? What is a malleable role and how can it fit into your business (with boundaries)? How to be a better leader to your team when things are falling off track. Her process for letting someone go. Why your role changes as you grow into your business as CEO. How to have humanizing and empathetic conversations with your team. What’s working in the marketing world today and what needs to change? Is your audience jaded? How to create shifts in your messaging to position yourself as the answer. What’s the deal with urgency and scarcity? Her process for strategy and writing copy. What’s the hierarchy of messaging? How to get fewer revisions on the final copy. How belief can hold you back for far too long. Tune into the episode by hitting play or checking out the transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Brittany’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM AI for Creative Entrepreneurs Podcast Brittany’s first episode Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: Growth and change are a natural part of starting and building a business. And sometimes it all goes smoothly, other times it can be a little bit painful. But, ultimately we have to figure this stuff out in order to succeed as copywriters and as business owners. Our guest for today’s episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is returning once again to share what she’s learned as she’s built her copywriting agency and helped dozens of high-end clients build their businesses too. Strategist and copywriter, Brittany McBean is here to share what’s happened to her business over the last couple of years, why she hit pause on her YouTube channel, the struggles of managing employees, mental health, and a lot more. It’s another great interview that you’re definitely going to want to stick around for. Kira Hug: But, before we jump into the interview, this podcast is sponsored by the Copywriter Think Tank. That’s our mastermind for copywriters, content writers, strategists, marketers, you name it. If you’re a creative and you’re building a service-based business and creating scalable offers or products, new podcast, you will be a good fit in this room. Brittany McBean, today’s guest is a Think Tank alumni member, so we were lucky enough to work with her in the Think Tank. And we do have a retreat coming up in our Think Tank. It’s a virtual retreat coming up June 1st and 2nd. So, if you would like to be a part of that virtual retreat and meet our entire Think Tank crew, it’s not too late. You can reach out to us and we can chat about whether or not the Think Tank makes sense for you. One thing I feel like we don’t typically talk about when we talk about the Think Tank, Rob, is what new members can expect when they join, and how we help them immediately over the first month. And so, I thought we could just touch on that real quick, because I feel like it’s always mysterious when you join a mastermind, kind of like what’s actually going to happen when you get in and walk into the room. So, Rob, what do you feel like works well for new members when they join us that maybe they don’t know or expect? Rob Marsh: Well, a lot of masterminds, it’s just a group of people that get together and talk and share ideas or whatever. But, we’ve combined a mastermind with coaching. And so, we start out with two pretty intensive calls where we help everyone set goals. And it’s not the simple, how much do you want to make? Move on, what do you want to do with your business? We go really deep and we challenge each person who joins the Think Tank to think bigger, to think differently about their business. And then, we sit down with them and really scope out how they can achieve one of these big goals that they’ve set. We come up with a strategy for achieving it. We identify things that might get in the way. How they might move forward, really to set them up for a big success, hopefully in the first few months that they’re with us. And then, we can repeat that process over

Alyssa Burkus is our guest on the 341st episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Alyssa is a thought leadership and content marketer. She started her business after being faced with asking life’s big questions after a chronic cancer prognosis but has defied the odds over and over again by building a business that works for her, her health, and her family. While we may not all be faced with life-threatening illnesses, we all face uncertainty and downsides. Alyssa shares the systems she has in place to look after what matters most. Here’s how the conversation goes: How her background in a global change consulting company has impacted her copywriting career. Why she leaned into thought leadership and authority building as her area of specialization. What really is thought leadership and how is it different from other forms of content marketing? Is all content marketing created equal? Tools to cope with uncertainty. The importance of energy management for your personal and business life. What AI doesn’t have on thought leadership. What’s Alyssa’s strategy for working with a new client on building their authority? How to strategically repurpose content. Using the “plant and…” approach to pivoting. How to create writing habits that stick as a writer. Why it’s a good idea to have a place you can relearn information. “Write it in your own words” is making a comeback. How she sold out her first program with no list. What can you modify in your products or services to make them stand out? The #1 question you need to ask yourself when creating a course. Why you can’t hustle culture your way through business. Morning routines vs morning windows… What’s the difference? Press play or check out the transcript below.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Alyssa’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM AI for Creative Entrepreneurs Podcast Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: What does it mean to be a thought leader? What kind of content does a thought leader produce? And maybe the biggest question of all, once you’ve got good content that reflects your strategic thinking, how do you make sure that the world will even see it? Those are just three questions that we asked our guest for today’s episode of The Copywriter Club podcast. Alyssa Burkus is a strategist, a copywriter, a member of the Think Tank and a thought partner for her clients, and she shared how she helps them build their audience with great thinking. We also talked about working through serious difficulties, what to do when change becomes a constant, how to pivot and creating a writing habit that will actually stick. This is an episode definitely worth listening to twice. Kira Hug: Or maybe three times. Maybe four times. Before we get to the interview though, this podcast is sponsored by the Copywriter Think Tank. That is our mastermind for copywriters and other marketers who want to figure out the next phase of their business. Some things are working well in their business, but they want to figure out what comes next; they want to increase their revenue; they want to figure out new revenue streams, increase visibility and really figure out what their X factor looks like, so they can build a business around that. We actually have a retreat coming up in June. It’s a virtual retreat on June 2nd and 3rd. So it’s coming up fast, and if you want to participate in that, you can apply today to see if you’re a good fit in the Copywriter Think Tank. We also have a retreat that we’re really excited about coming up in September in London, and Rob and I are thrilled to have an excuse to fly to London and hang out with copywriters. It doesn’t get better than that, does it, rob? Rob Marsh: Does not get better than hanging out with copywriters in the UK. Kira Hug: All right, so Rob, I have a quick question for you. You’ve been to many retreats that we’ve hosted and that you’ve been a part of. I wonder which one stands out as maybe a favorite retreat that you’ve participated in or have hosted and why? Rob Marsh: Ooh, that’s a really hard question to answer, because most of them are pretty good. Let me just speak in general. So I really like retreats where I come away with ideas that I can implement in my business; that is the thing that sets them apart. So, I’ve been to events where I’m excited, I’m jazzed up, and then I get home. It’s like, “Well, how do I actually execute on that thing?” And for me, the ones that really set it apart is: Here’s a tactic, here’s exactly how you implement it, here are the steps and they really walk you through that. So that stuff makes a difference to me and it makes it feel more useful, gives me a pattern that I can follow to make sure that I’m making changes in my business and, hopefully, it makes m

Rob and Kira sit down on the 340th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast to chat about a few episodes that have stood out to them over the last 5 years. Yup, they’re jumping all the way back in the archives to tap into what still applies to today’s copywriting arena and how you can use past insight to your business today. Here’s how the conversation goes: The copywriting event happening in London in 2023. The FREE A.I. challenge being hosted THIS week. Rob and Kira’s new A.I for Creative Entrepreneurs podcast. Why Joel Klettke didn’t start with beginner rates and jumped straight into value rates? How to turn mindset and confidence into action. The difference between an employee mindset and an entrepreneurial mindset. Do you need a portfolio to start charging higher rates? How to shift our mindset around the imposter complex. The benefits of imposter complex. The 12 lies of the imposter complex and what to do about it. What is The Stone Soup tale and how does it apply to copywriting? How to become the go-to copywriter in the room. Jereshia’s advice on high-ticket sales as a copywriter. The real difference between low-ticket and high-ticket sales. Are you being a spork? What are the POP and the Champagne Closer methods? How to lead a sales call with authority. Tune into the episode below by hitting play or reading the transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Join the AI Challenge The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM Episode 21 with Joel Klettke Episode 47 with Tanya Geisler Episode 36 with Ken McCarthy Episode 204 with Jereshia Hawk Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: Today’s episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is number 340. Not very many podcasts have that long of a lifespan. Most stop a long time before that. In fact, I’ve heard some people say that the average podcast lasts about 12 to 15 episodes. I’m not sure how correct those numbers are. But we are fully committed to keeping this podcast going because talking to copywriters, content writers, and other marketers isn’t just a learning experience for us, it’s fun. You are our people, and talking to copywriters is honestly one of the most enjoyable things that we do every week. Having said that, there are a lot of great episodes you probably haven’t listened to yet, especially if you’ve only been listening to the podcast for the last year or so. And even if you’ve heard every single episode, I’m tempted to wave at our mothers here, Kira, although my mom has passed, but your mom maybe is one of the few that’s listened to every episode. Kira Hug: She has not listened to every episode. Rob Marsh: She should have. But if you’ve listened to every episode, you’ve probably forgotten some of the phenomenal advice that we’ve heard over the years. So we thought today we would share just a couple of clips from our back catalog so you can go back and check out some of these amazing interviews. It’s a bit of a best of show episode for you today. Kira Hug: But before we jump into all those episodes, this episode is sponsored by the Copywriter Think Tank, which is our mastermind. And we have a retreat coming up pretty soon actually, in June. Early June, we have a virtual retreat with all of our Think Tank members. It’s one of my favorite parts of this mastermind and being a part of the Think Tank. It’s also my favorite part of being in other masterminds that Rob and I are part of. The retreats are where, it’s really cheesy, but that is where the magic happens. Because there’s collaboration, you’re talking about ideas, and you bring in brilliant people who can teach you something new that you can implement right away in your business. It’s where, Rob, you and I have really implemented a good amount from the last retreat that you and I attended, so we know it can make a difference, and we know it makes a difference for the copywriters in the Think Tank. So if you have any interest in being a part of a mastermind and being a part of a retreat, I would not wait to jump in. Definitely reach out to us and you can learn more about the Think Tank at copywriterthinktank.com. And I will also mention that we have an in-person retreat because we like to do both in-person retreats and virtual retreats, a combination of the two. And our in-person retreat is coming up in September, will be in London, which we might talk about more in this episode. So join us. It’s a lot of fun. Rob Marsh: Yeah. It’s funny because you’re talking about that, and we might have mentioned this once before on the podcast, but one of the things that I’ve found with retreats is the first one, maybe even the first two or three, you’re kind of still new to the group, and so you don’t have those same relationships. But in the masterminds that y

Dave Harland is our guest on the 339th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. After starting a career as a soccer (or should we say football) reporter in Manchester, Dave shifted to the world of copywriting where he’s known for coming up with big ideas and a method to execute them. In this episode, you’ll find out exactly how he makes it happen. You’ll also learn: How Dave improved his copy skills with limited technology capabilities. Why he branded himself using “word” rather than “copy.” How he organized his portfolio when he first started his business. A typical day in the life of Dave and how he balances client work with his own business goals. Why writers need time to simmer in their thoughts and why they shouldn’t rush the critical thinking process. How to get bigger brands to notice you. The 3 question test Dave uses when coming up with a big idea. How many projects are too many projects? His method for attracting clients and building his brand using LinkedIn. How to find your voice, break the rules, and connect with your audience. Dave’s path to becoming the “copywriting comedian.” Why you need to create a connection in anything you write. How he uses AI as a firestarter and as a means to eliminate the most common ideas. Why he believes ChatGPT won’t replace dedicated, skilled copywriters. Tune into the episode by hitting play or reading the transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Join the AI Challenge The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Dave’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: There’s a saying among copywriters, especially online conversion copywriters that goes back to Eugene Schwartz. He put it like this: sales copy is not written, copy is assembled. And of course that’s true. The messages that customers relate to best are assembled from interviews, surveys, and other research. But in subscribing to this idea, a lot of copywriters have inadvertently lost the connection to creativity and copy. After all, what’s the point of being creative if the words are in the survey responses? Our guest for The Copywriter Club podcast today takes a more creative approach than many copywriters we know. Dave Harland, also known as the word man, walked us through his 10-step process for coming up with big, compelling ideas. And he shared three questions that he asks every time he comes up with a good headline or a good idea, to make sure that it is good. He also talked in-depth about his unconventional approach to posting on LinkedIn, one that has attracted a lot of great clients for his business. If you want to be more creative in your approach to copywriting, this episode is for you. Kira Hug: But before we get to the interview, this podcast is sponsored by the Copywriter Think tank. That is our mastermind for copywriters, content writers and other marketers who want to figure out the next thing in their businesses. That could be anything from creating a new revenue stream or a couple new revenue streams to launching a new product or a subscription service or a membership or podcast book. You name it. Our members are doing incredible things and we actually have a retreat coming up in early June. It’s a virtual retreat and in-person retreat in London in September. And so we are really excited to add a couple of new members to the Think Tank before the retreat in June. And if you think that could be you, visit copywriterthinktank.com to apply. Let’s kick off our episode with Dave. Dave Harland: Probably like most people fell into it completely by accident. My, no, my background is journalism, so I did a journalism degree. I mean, before that, I loved writing as a kid, as I presume most copywriters. Had a love of words growing up. Got into Scrabble when I was six with my dad and just never looked back, really. Started writing poems and stories and loved English at school. So yeah, that led me down a journalism path. So I did work experience at the local paper when I was at school for a couple of weeks and just loved the buzz of that. And then yeah, went to university to do a journalism degree. So I was a three-year undergrad degree in journalism, which really opened my eyes to all the different kinds of types and styles that were out there. I just thought when I went there, I was just writing about news. Didn’t for one moment think I’d be learning how to package up a radio news article, or we did a little bit of TV as well. I haven’t got a face for TV at all. So we tried that. And then watching it back, I just looked all kind of nervous and my tongue was hanging out. It was like “TV isn’t for me.” And at the time they just introduced an online route. So it was online journalism. In your third year, you get to spec, specialize in TV, newspapers, radio, or this new route online. And in a class of a hundred, there wer

Corrie Myers is a website copywriter and messaging strategist who acts as a thought partner for her clients. After 15 years in the education field, she made the shift to copy and has found ways to incorporate her leadership and teaching expertise into her business. She’s built a successful business over the last few years by leading with empathy and setting clear boundaries. Here’s how the conversation goes: Corrie’s career shift from teacher to copywriter. Building a business as a parent of three and how she balances work and life. The skills she’s brought from her teaching career into copywriting. Why she treats her own business as a client and why you should, too. The benefits of having less hours to do something. How she built confidence in making big life changes. Being a thought partner for your clients – how do you position yourself as the go-to? How the Think Tank has helped transform Corrie’s business. Why you should pinpoint gaps your clients might miss. How she determines the types of clients she works with. Where she finds leads and projects during unprecedented times and what she leans on during periods of unknown. How her pricing has evolved since the beginning of her business and how she packages her offers. Why day rates are helpful in getting your foot in the door for long-term work. How to selll a day rate or retainer. The subtle shift in language Corrie uses to position herself as the strategist. The messy middle – how do you trudge through? How AI has impacted her business and maximized her energy by being a way to “chop vegetables.” Tune into the episode by hitting play or checking out the transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Corrie’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: There is a challenge facing most copywriters that many of us struggle to deal with, and that is how do I stand out from the massive other copywriters and content writers who offer sales pages, emails, case studies, and all of the other things that we help our clients with? And for the most part, any copywriter can probably figure out how to do a decent job writing just about any project deliverable. And, yes, I know I’m probably oversimplifying here to make the point, but our guest on today’s episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is copywriter and Think Tank member Corrie Myers. And as we talk with Corrie, she shared a ton of details about her business. Perhaps, most importantly, she talked about showing up not just as a copywriter, but as a thought partner for your clients. It’s an approach that has helped her stay fully booked over the last year, while many other copywriters have struggled to find clients. And it’s an approach that a lot of us could use in our own businesses. Kira Hug: But before we jump into the interview, this episode is sponsored by the Copywriter Think Tank, which is our Mastermind for copywriters and marketers who want to figure out the next thing in their business, that could be new revenue streams or it could be a new idea or podcast or so many different ideas. I’m not even going to promote it right now, because Corrie talks about it with us in this conversation. So you’ll get to hear from her what her experience was like in the Think Tank, and you can also hear the results of what she’s been able to do while being in the Think Tank. And so I think that’s truly the best promo for the Mastermind. We also had a chance to talk about the retreats. I know Corrie got a lot out of our most recent retreat in New Orleans. And I’m just going to mention that we do have Think Tank retreats coming up. In June, we have a virtual retreat, and then in September we’re traveling to London for an in-person retreat, because similar to Corrie, we believe that the power in business growth and all types of growth, it all happens when you’re together in person at these types of retreats. So if you have any interest in our Think Tank and becoming a new member, you can visit copywriterthinktank.com. Okay, let’s kick off our episode with Corrie. Corrie Myers: Well, in, what was it? January of 2019, I was pregnant and teaching full-time, and wrote on a little, it wasn’t a fancy vision board, it was just a real basic notepad of my goals for 2019. And it was to explore other career opportunities. And I had a couple goals within that to reach out to people who had explored other careers outside of teaching. And then by the time I went back to work after maternity leave, I was also a copywriter. So that’s kind of how I got into it, was deciding to explore it. And then six months later I was doing it. Rob Marsh: That’s really concise. So let’s talk about what you were teaching, and why you felt the need to maybe move on. And I know you were doing more than teaching, y

Carolyn McMurray is our guest on the 337th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Carolyn is a copywriter and host of a community designed for generation Z to learn about copywriting. But how does one start a community and grow towards 100+ members? Tune into the episode to find out. You’ll also discover: Carolyn’s accidental discovery of copywriting and how she landed her first gig. Her advice for getting her business started if she had to do it all over again. How she fell into the tech niche. Why she decided to build and grow a community for gen Z? What’s her community all about and how does she benefit from it? Should you label yourself as a junior copywriter? When she increased her rates and began to build her reputation and brand. How to create a copywriting portfolio that stands out. Where she gathers inspiration to write her list weekly. Why she doesn’t take herself too seriously and how it benefits her brand. Carolyn’s advice for building a successful community. Mistakes she’s made in the growth of her community and what to avoid. Why you need something to get you out of your head. Using ChatGTP for writer’s block – does it really help? Thinking about marketing to gen z? Here’s some advice from a gen z’er. Using AI and the future of copywriting for upcoming generations. Listen to the episode by hitting play or checking out the transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Connect with Carolyn The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: Way back in 1991, two academics, William Straus and Neil Howell came up with a theory about a generational cycle in American and Western history. And in their theory, they defined 13 different generations starting from the founding of the American colonies and running right up to the publication of their book. Actually, it goes farther back than those 13, but that’s where they focused on. Their work is partially responsible for the way that marketers talk today about different generations like Generation X, Millennials, who are at one point also called Generation Y and Gen Z, which some academics like to call the homeland generation. So, why the long introduction about generations to start this episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast? Well, our guest for this episode is Carolyn McMurray. She’s a member of Generation Z and the founder of a copywriting group exclusively for Gen Z copywriters. We asked her about how she got her start in copywriting, building a portfolio, outdated writing advice, overcoming writer’s block, and what to do if you’re writing to Gen Z. Stick around. This is a pretty good discussion. Kira Hug: That might be your most Rob Marsh-esque introduction that you’ve ever created. Rob Marsh: I don’t know. Kira Hug: I love it. I love it. All right, so before we jump into the interview, if you haven’t heard yet, we just launched our newest podcast, AI for Creative Entrepreneurs, which officially has dropped this week with new episodes, which we’ll share regularly on YouTube and also wherever you stream your podcasts. So again, that’s AI for Creative Entrepreneurs. You can also check out the site where you can sign up for regular updates so you never miss an episode as we’re trying our best to figure out what’s happening with AI and apply it in our businesses and in our creative lives. And, we won’t pass up the opportunity to also mention our mastermind, The Copywriter Think Tank, which is, in my opinion, the best place to go if you are a writer and you want to figure out what is the next thing in your business; the next offer, the next product, the next revenue stream. We’ve really figured out how to help writers create a pivot in their business and achieve that next level result, whatever that is for you. And you can learn more about that mastermind and coaching experience at copywriterthinktank.com. Rob Marsh: Okay, let’s kick off our episode with Carolyn McMurray. Carolyn McMurray: So basically my journey, I’d say, started when I was about 17. No one had taught me about copywriting at school. It was always: become a teacher. I was doing a lot of my own blog stuff and social media captions just for myself, but I never knew that it could be a career. So I thought, “Let’s go to university, study business” because everyone was saying you should study business. And, I hated it. I left after a month, went back again to study English because I was better at that. I liked it. It just wasn’t wasn’t me. I just didn’t like being told what to read and Shakespeare … I like Shakespeare, but I don’t know. It wasn’t for me. And while I was there, I actually ended up doing a bit of blog writing for this law firm. And again, they didn’t tell me it was copywriting and I didn’t clock

John Forde is a direct-response copywriter and co-author of the book, Great Leads and the person behind the long-running newsletter called the Copywriter’s Roundtable. John shared his process for getting started with research and copy and the lessons he’s learned from his 23-year copywriting career. Here’s how the episode goes: John’s approach to research – how much do you really need to get started? What does it mean for your copy to be invisible? Do you need to invest in another copywriting formula? How often do you need to check in with your writing process and method? The difference between divergent and convergent thinking and how to use each in copywriting. Why the warm-up is essential to writing your best copy. The benefits of reverse engineering outlines in different copywriting assets. How speed can benefit your copy and emulate positive energy. John’s process for feeding his brain from morning to night. How fiction books can help you develop a better sense of empathy. The 6 leads John teaches in his book. What makes a great lead? Info product vs. a wise product – what makes one better than the other? The discipline that comes with writing a weekly newsletter for over 20 years. His view on the future of copywriting and the lifestyle of copywriters. Hit that play button or check out the transcript below! The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website John’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: If you’ve been listening to the Copywriter Club podcast for very long, you know that we love talking to copywriters, content creators, and marketers at all stages of business, from beginners to seasoned experts. Today’s guest fits very comfortably in the latter group. John Forde is the co-author of the book Great Leads, along with Michael Masterson, and the man behind the long-running weekly email called The Copywriter’s Roundtable. He’s also the author of dozens, maybe even hundreds, of high performing sales promotions in the financial newsletter industry. John shared his process for getting started with research and copy, how divergent and convergent thinking helps him come up with new ideas, the lessons that he learned as a copywriter, especially as he was just starting out, along with a lot more. Stick around, because this interview is a good one. Kira Hug: But before we get to the interview, this podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Think Tank. That is our mastermind for copywriters and other marketers who want to figure out the next thing in their businesses. That could be anything from creating a new product to launching a podcast or a video channel. Maybe it’s creating a product company or building an agency. Maybe you just want to be the best copywriter in your niche. Maybe you just want to hang out with us in real life at one of the upcoming retreats that we’re so excited about. Regardless, you can check out more information copywriterthinktank.com to find out more and to apply today. Rob Marsh: Okay. Let’s kick our episode off with John. And as we do, just a quick note that John’s neighbor decided to mow his lawn about halfway through the interview. It’s not too bad, but we do apologize for any of the background noise that you might hear. Don’t let that stop you from listening though, because this is a really good interview packed with lots of ideas you can implement in your business. John Forde: I guess, just like any story you ask a copywriter to tell, it can be long versions and short versions. So, I’ll try to come somewhere in the middle. When I was in school, I was studying… What I wanted to study was English lit. I was talked out of that by my mother who has a degree in English literature and a master’s degree in English literature and she worried about my employability. Rob Marsh: Yeah. John Forde: So I started taking marketing courses because they were there. To be honest, the teachers were great, but I learned nothing. I retained nothing from those marketing courses, at least not consciously. Maybe in the subconscious, I don’t know. But when I got out of school, I wanted to find some way to do writing that still involved making money, not starving. In the time that I didn’t know what I wanted to do, I went to a graduate program in Annapolis, St. John’s University. It’s really just a great books program. And not especially marketable, but I just felt like that would be very interesting to me, so I took that. Well, I ended up seeing a job posting there for an internship at Agora Publishing. At the time they were very, very small, maybe 25, 30 employees total across the company. I went, I got the internship. I was being paid $15 a day to write editorial stuff. I met Bill Bonner and at one point he said, “Why don’t you come over and sit i

Paul Roetzer is our guest on the 335th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Paul is the host of The Marketing Artificial Intelligence Show and Founder & CEO of the Marketing AI Institute. He shares how AI can be used as a tool to increase efficiency and help grow your business. Here’s what you’ll find out: The impact AI is having on children and future generations. Is AI stealing imagination? The 3 questions you need to ask yourself as a creative using AI. Can we avoid using AI? The effects of AI-generated content and the natural human need. Low-cost and free access tools to start experimenting with AI. The areas copywriters should focus on and how they can leverage them. Should you shift your title? How to become a more efficient writer. Finding trusted voices to learn from to become more confident in AI. What AI cannot take away from copywriters. How to rid yourself of the fear that come with the never-ending updates, changes, and shifts in copywriting. Why you need to be willing to put out imperfect work. What can be streamlined with your team using AI? How does ChatGPT really work? How Paul uses AI in his business to maximize productivity without extra work. AI and fears – what does it mean for the future? Responsible principles and ethics while using AI for business and marketing. Tune into the episode by hitting play or reading the transcript below.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website AI Writer’s Summit Connect with Paul on LinkedIn The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM Full Transcript: Kira Hug: When it comes to AI, it’s hard not to wonder, as a creative person, if we’re losing something or if we’re unlocking a whole new level of creativity. In today’s podcast episode, we cover the three questions we need to ask ourselves as creatives, and we dive deep into the world of AI and its applications in the business world. Our guest, Paul Roetzer, host of the Marketing Artificial Intelligence Show and founder and CEO of the Marketing AI Institute, shares his insights on how AI can be used as a tool to increase efficiency and solve business problems. Paul shares how his business uses AI for podcast transcription, summaries, blog post creation, and social media content. And naturally, it’s impossible not to talk about the importance of responsible AI and how it affects our future and society. We also dive into how we can get excited about AI as creatives and accept it as part of our businesses and our lives. And yes, that intro was written in collaboration with ChatGPT because we’ve got to walk our talk and start experimenting with these tools. Now, let’s get started. Rob Marsh: Okay, so this part of the podcast is not written by ChatGPT. It’s just me talking about the Copywriter Think Tank, that’s our mastermind for copywriters and other marketers who want to do more in their business. You’ve heard us talk about this before. If you’ve been thinking about joining a mastermind and in particular, the Think Tank, now is the best time to do it because we have a retreat coming up in the first part of June. We also are planning a retreat overseas in London coming in September. Members have free access to both of those, plus a whole slew of other things that we do, including one-on-one coaching from Kira and myself on how to accomplish bigger things in your business, whether that’s stepping out on stage, creating a new product, building a podcast or video channel, or maybe you’re building an agency, a product company, even if you just want to become the best-known copywriter in your niche. Those are the kinds of things that we do in the Copywriter Think Tank. To find out more, visit copywriterthinktank.com, watch the short video, and then fill out the application so we can just chat and find out if the Think Tank is right for you. Okay, let’s kick off our interview with Paul. Kira Hug: All right, so Paul, I think this is a great place to start, just individual conversations the two of us have had with our kids. My son, he just turned eight. When I mentioned to him that a lot of copywriters I know are concerned about chatbots taking over their jobs and that’s why I wanted to start this podcast, he immediately got teary-eyed and said, “What’s going to happen if they don’t have a purpose?” and followed immediately by, “Does this mean I can’t be a writer?” which was really moving because I didn’t even know he wanted to be a writer, so I was like, “That’s a win.” I mean, there was a tear, so I was like, “I was not prepared for this. I don’t really know how to talk about this with him.” I heard you had a similar story with your nine-year-old or a child of a similar age. Paul Roetzer: Yeah, my daughter was ten at the time

Sam Woods is our guest on the 334th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Sam is a copywriter who’s been leveraging AI for copywriting since 2019. This episode dives into how AI is going to integrate into our personal and professional lives over the next decade, and Sam shares how copywriters can use it to their advantage. Take a peek at what we chat out: How will AI create and eliminate jobs and reshape the economy. What capabilities does ChatGPT have and how can copywriters leverage it in their business? How Sam uses AI in his client projects and his process for writing sales copy. Using ChatGPT prompts for market research. What ChatGPT is and what it’s not. Can ChatGPT really write in your voice? Treating ChatGPT like a junior copywriter. Is AI a tool for creativity on tap? How to present using AI to a client. What else can AI actually do? Why your input matters more than anything. The benefits and value of using AI in your creative business. Can using AI make you a better copywriter? What are the first steps to start using tools like ChatGPT? Tune into the episode below by hitting play or reading the transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Sam’s Twitter The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: You’d have to be living on a different planet to not have your inbox clogged with emails about AI. Talk about artificial intelligence is everywhere. Some people are saying that it means the end of content, copy, and copywriting. Others are saying the opposite, that AI is the biggest opportunity for marketers in generations. And the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. I can’t remember who said this, but I recently saw a comment that said, “AI won’t take your job, but someone using AI will.” So learning about these tools and how to use them is not just a good idea, but quite possibly the best way to ensure that you’re still working as a copywriter in the coming decade. Our guest for this episode of The Copywriter Club podcast is copywriter and AI expert Sam Woods, and we grilled him with our questions about AI, ChatGPT, and what it all means for the future. You are definitely going to want to stick around for this one. Kira Hug: Before we get to our interview, the podcast today is sponsored by, actually, it’s sponsored by our new podcast. So we have a new podcast that is launching soon featuring other experts like Sam Woods, and so today is a preview of what’s to come on the new podcast, which is called AI for Creatives. So if you like today’s episode and you want more of that, you can just check out our show notes and there’ll be a link in our show notes so you can get on the list and hear all about the new podcast when new shows come out. Rob Marsh: And that podcast is we’re interviewing experts in AI, experts who are developing their own AI tools. It’s really all about how we get better at using artificial intelligence in our own businesses as creatives. Kira Hug: And this podcast episode is also sponsored by the Copywriter Underground, which is our membership for copywriters, content writers, creatives. And we’re creating a new series of AI trainings in the membership so that you can figure out how to use these tools, how to apply them to your business. And so actually, Sam Woods has a training in the Underground that you can access where he shows a demo of how to use the tools in your own copywriting. And so, if you want access to other trainings like that, definitely check out the Underground membership. Rob Marsh: Yeah, listen to this episode with Sam, then go to the Underground, check out what he shared there. That’s good for now. Let’s kick off our episode with Sam Woods. Kira Hug: How do you see AI impacting society and the economy in the next five to ten years? Sam Woods: Yeah, I’ll make a prediction and everyone will then tell me that I was wrong five years from now. No, well, so it’ll have… And it’s hard to say these things because it sounds like hype, and it sounds like overstated, and it sounds like everything else that’s been hyped. Right before this you had Web3 and crypto and all this other stuff, right? NFTs. And they were all hyped and so on. But what’s different about AI is that it’s an infrastructure play, as it is being integrated into all the things that we are already doing. Web3 is not infrastructure, Crypto is not… Even though crypto could be infrastructure in terms of payments and coins and tokens and everything else, but it wasn’t, and it probably never will be. But what you can do with AI is at an infrastructure level in society as it can be implemented into, not everything, but most things. And that’s what we’re seeing now. Like Bing. Microsoft made the investment of the d

Juliet Peay is our guest on the 333rd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Juliet is a personal brand coach and copywriter who helps her clients “unfrankenstein” themselves, so they can show up authentically online. When it comes to building a business, your personal brand can be the key to attracting your ideal clients. Here’s how the conversation went: Why Juliet decided to start a blog about local business and how it opened up a full-time job opportunity. Freelancing on the side and when she felt ready take the leap in her business. Doing something because you think you’re supposed to. Going from a reactive to a proactive client search and why mindset plays a key role. Finding the right social media platform for your business. Do you have to send hard pitches? Building relationships with people using LinkedIn. How Juliet landed a ghostwriting retainer project. The fine line between personal branding and copywriting. Her personal branding process – what does she use with clients? How personal should we get online? Is there a line we shouldn’t cross? How to find a middle ground when sharing strong opinions and viewpoints. One project at a time vs. balancing multiple deadlines. Implementing shorter deadlines for proposals and sending this key piece in your proposal routine. Hiring a VA + using Dubsado for business. Learning from client mistakes and the necessity of having contracts Common misconceptions around boundaries and how they improve your customer service skills. Finding contractors to make your life easier. Juliet’s cut and clear approach to problem-solving. The struggles of keeping up with the opportunities and not yet having the bandwidth to make it happen. Tune into the episode by hitting play or reading the transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Juliet’s website Nikita’s episode The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: A lot of copywriters start out doing copy as a side hustle while they work at a real job, and as the work piles up, they quickly realize that they could probably be making more money doing the side hustle full-time. That’s what happened to today’s guest on the Copywriter Club podcast. Juliet Peay started a blog as a side hustle, got a bit of traction, and then started doing copy projects all while working her full-time job. Then she realized that what she was making as a freelancer was double the hourly rate she had in her real job, so it was time to jump. Juliet shared how she made the jump, plus she also told us about feeling trapped in a niche, how she sets boundaries, and her unique approach to making connections on LinkedIn. But before we get to our interview, this podcast is sponsored by the Copywriter Think Tank. That’s our mastermind for copywriters and other marketers who want to do more in their business, whether it’s something like stepping out on stage, creating a new product, your own podcast or video channel, building an agency, a product company, anything like that. Maybe you just want to become the best-known copywriter in your niche. That’s the kind of stuff that we help copywriters do in the Think Tank. To learn more, visit copywriterthinktank.com and fill out the application there. Before we get to the interview, I also need to introduce my co-host for this episode, Nikita Morell. Nikita is known as the copywriter for architects. She was our guest on this podcast a long time ago, it was episode 136. She’s a former member of the Think Tank and I’m just excited to hang out with you for 30 minutes again. Nikita, thanks for joining me and welcome back to the show. Nikita Morell: Thanks, Rob. I can’t believe it’s been so long. It’s been a while. Rob Marsh: It’s been way too long. I’ve been watching what you do on LinkedIn and on your list, and of course, we’ll talk a little bit about niching I think later on here, but you really truly have done an amazing job niching your business and filling a need and finding a spot for you that’s very unique, I think, in the world of copywriting. Nikita Morell: Yeah, thanks Rob. I’m really excited to talk about Juliet’s story today because I think I identify with lots of different things that she’s gone through. So yeah, excited to get stuck into it. Rob Marsh: Well, fantastic. Let’s kick our episode off then by listening to the first half of our interview with Juliet. Juliet Peay: I guess how I ended up in copywriting was that I loved writing, like all copywriters do. I got my degree in journalism because I felt like that was the smart and practical thing to do. I thought maybe I would go into politics, or journalism, or even have a talk show someday or something. I felt like college was the time to get that smart degree. I, after college, found myself in a

Chloe Barnes is our guest on the 332nd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Chloe is a copywriter and creator coach who made her freelance gig a full-time income. After going viral on a little platform known as TikTok, Chloe has been able to grow her business by building her personal brand. But what makes good content and how can you use the platform to your advantage? Tune into the episode to find out… You’ll also hear: Why she ended up studying abroad in Sweden and how it changed the projection of her career. Starting a travel blog and getting a full-time content marketing job out of it. How she maintained working a 9-5 and a 5-9. Why she ended up on TikTok in the first place. How she blew up on TikTok on two different occasions and booked out her calendar. Why you need to be okay with the long game and how to be consistent. How she builds her personal brand on TikTok rather than her copywriting expertise. Her process for posting on TikTok and her content marketing strategy. How do you come down from a viral moment? What about haters and trolls? What do you do about them? Balancing the many ideas that come from quick growth and success. Dealing with wrong-fit clients and how to navigate sticky situations. How to develop your own style on social media. Why you don’t have to pay to get started and how it’s holding you back. Press play or read the transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Chloe’s TikTok The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: How long does it take to become an overnight sensation? How much work do you need to put in until something goes viral or your audience starts to find you? And what happens when you finally break through and people want to hear from you? Our guest for this episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast knows the answers to those questions. Copywriter and TikTok sensation, Chloe Barnes, is here to answer those questions and more. We talked about going viral on social media, dealing with haters and trolls, her not exactly strategic approach to creating content and a lot more. So stay tuned because we think you’re going to like this episode. But before we get to that interview, this podcast is sponsored by the Copywriter Think Tank, that’s our mastermind for copywriters and other marketers who want to do more in their businesses. Whether that’s getting onto a stage, creating a new product, growing the business that you already have, creating a video channel, building an agency, anything like that. Maybe you want to just become the best known copywriter in your niche. That’s the kind of thing that we help copywriters do in the Think Tank. To learn more, visit copywriterthinktank.com and fill out that short application. And I also need to introduce you to my guest host for this episode, copywriter and business strategist, Jill Wise. Jill has been a previous guest on the podcast, that was episode 235. She’s also a former Think Tank member. She’s an amazing copywriter. Welcome to the show, Jill. Jill Wise: Thank you so much for having me. Like I said before we started recording, I was really excited to just hang out with you this morning. Rob Marsh: Yeah, well I mean, when you’re talking about all the amazing things… Before we started recording the show, telling me all the things going on in your business, I’m like, I wish we had more time now. Jill Wise: I mean, maybe I’ll just come back for another episode. Rob Marsh: Yeah, let’s do that. Jill Wise: I’m pitching myself live. Rob Marsh: We should definitely do that. I mean, since the last time we recorded you’ve had a baby, your business is still growing and doing amazing. So yeah, you have a lot, I think to add, not just to this conversation, but maybe a future episode. Jill Wise: I’m very excited to talk about this though, because right after you sent this over, I obviously went and found her TikTok and her Instagram, and I found the viral videos, and I was starting to reverse engineer everything. I’m really excited to get into it. Rob Marsh: Awesome. Cool. Well, first let’s kick off our interview with Chloe Barnes with Kira asking her how she got started as a copywriter. Chloe Barnes: I actually started in digital marketing for a university back when I was working in Australia, and I was promoting the student exchange program for the division of business. I did a student exchange when I was in uni, and it was amazing, and that was my first introduction into the world of marketing, something that you really believe in. It just opened up this whole new career path for me, because I originally got my degree in IT and started out as an advisor for a big four company, and really hated it. So once I started in marketing, I moved to the UK and got a job in an SEO agency, and realized th

Anne-Laure Le Cunff is our guest on the 331st episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. After deciding to go back to school to study neuroscience, Anne-Laure created a newsletter that turned into the thriving business known as Ness Labs, a science-based learning community to become more creative and productive without the burnout. Anne-Laure shares how business owners can minimize content overload and make their lives simpler. Here’s how the conversation goes: Why Anne-Laure decided to go back to school and shift her career path. What is the generation effect and how it’ll help you learn more effectively? How a newsletter became a full-fledged business. The importance of finding the learning output that works for you. The reality of being an “expert.” Is there such a thing as the curse of knowledge? Why everyone could benefit from becoming a teacher. How do you connect all the things you’ve learned? What is mind gardening and how does Anne-Laure use it in her life? Are you holding onto too much random information? How she organizes her notes and filters through her mind as she takes notes. A book reading process – is it effective? How to decide what to learn next. What does creative chaos actually consist of? The benefits of breaking up your work into smaller tasks. How to work with your team in creative chaos. Do you have to change your work style for other people? Time management and themed days – could it work for you? How she balances her Ph.D. program and running a business. Anne-Laure’s advice for creating your OWN ladder and path. Do you have transferable skills? Assess before you pivot. How to run experiments on yourself, collect data, and conduct personal check-ins. What to watch out for to avoid burnout. AI and the future of copywriting. Tune into the episode or read the transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Ness Labs Anne-Laure’s Twitter page The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: There’s a term renaissance man or renaissance woman that refers to people like Leonardo da Vinci, who had many interests in hobbies from writing and art to engineering and architecture. Another word used to describe people like this is Polymath. Isaac Newton and Benjamin Franklin were Polymaths. And Polymath or Renaissance woman are the terms that come to mind when I try to describe our guest for this week’s episode of the Copywriter podcast. She is Anne-Laure Le Cunff, and she knows a lot about a lot. She’s a neuroscientist, entrepreneur, and ex-Googler, expert note-taker, and all-around genius. Not to mention that she’s a really cool person to hang out with. I have been following Anne-Laure for a few years and was thrilled when she agreed to join us to talk about learning and neuroscience and expertise and getting things done and so much more. I think you were going to love this interview. Kira Hug: But before we jump into the interview, this podcast is sponsored by the Copywriter Think Tank. That is our mastermind for copywriters and creatives and other marketers who want to figure out what’s next in their business. That could be anything from stepping on a stage for the first time or creating a new product, maybe a new podcast, maybe a new video channel. Maybe you want to build out an agency or a product company. Maybe you just want to be the best-known copywriter or expert in your niche. Regardless of what it is, or even if you don’t know what it is exactly, but you know there’s something out there for you, this is how we help copywriters in the Think Tank. You can learn more if you’re interested in being a part of a mastermind and joining us at retreats. You can learn more at copywriterthinktank.com. Rob Marsh: Okay, let’s kick off our episode with Anne-Laure Le Cunff. How did you become writer, neuroscience student, mindful productivity nerd, AI specialist? All of the things that you do, tell us the pathway. Anne-Laure Le Cunff: Wow, that’s a big question. How do we become who we are? I always enjoyed writing. I was already writing short stories and poems and little essays about big philosophical questions when I was a kid, but I didn’t really think of it as a potential career. I am half French, half Algerian, and I grew up in a family where success really looked like following the traditional path. So I went to university. I got a job at Google. I did everything that I was supposed to do. So it took a little bit of time for me to find myself on my current path, and I had a little bit of a squiggle-y carrier. I left Google, I worked on a couple of startups, figured out that wasn’t really what I wanted to do and found myself feeling completely lost, not knowing what was next. What do you do when you don’t have that very clear ladder in front of you anymore when you don’t kno

On the 330th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Rob and Kira sit down after two weeks of in-person retreats to share what they’re most excited about in 2023. Between new conversations around writing a book, learning new languages, competing in an Ironman, and AI and ChatGPT, you’ll want to tune into the few surprises Rob and Kira have up their sleeve. Tune into the podcast to find out: Who’s going to learn Italian – Rob or Kira? Did Rob actually bike 200 miles in one day?! Is Kira going to be the new Ironman? The tentative releases of Rob and Kira’s books. Is there a ghost in Kira’s photo? The power of in-person retreats and masterminds. Will there be a new AI workshop for copywriters? Who should worry about AI? Where will the next Think Tank retreats take place? A Copywriter Club spin-off podcast is happening… what’s it about? Find out the answers by tuning into the podcast below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: If you’d like to be the first to know about the AI workshop + limited series all about AI and ChatGPT, then click here to add yourself to the list! The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: Welcome to the Copywriter Club podcast. We don’t have an intro today, but we were just talking about the fact that maybe we haven’t ever even said our names on the podcast other than occasionally talking to each other. So this is the Copywriter Club podcast with Rob Marsh and Kira Hug. Kira Hug: Right. Rob Marsh: What else should we say about ourselves? I don’t know. Kira Hug: Well, Rob, so we’re at the beginning of February. What are you really excited about right now? Personally, professionally? Rob Marsh: Personally, a couple of things are going on. So outside of work, I am taking an Italian class with my wife and my oldest daughter, and the class actually started a couple of weeks ago. I haven’t been able to take the first two classes because you and I have been traveling out of town. We had our retreat; then we had our mastermind group that met together. And so today that we’re recording is my first day that I get to go to this class. So I’m hoping that after missing the first two classes, I’m not hopelessly far behind in my attempts to learn Italian. So I’m looking forward to that. Kira Hug: You got to prove it. You have to say something. Rob Marsh: Well, I haven’t been to class yet, so I don’t have anything to say, but I will eventually. I think, maybe I even said this on the podcast once. I can’t remember, but Italian to me, is the most beautiful language. It’s musical. When I hear people speaking Italian, it sounds like they’re singing in a lot of ways. My wife lived in Italy for close to a year at one point, and so we have some friends in Italy that we’ve connected with over the years, once or twice, and usually, it’s my wife talking to them at dinner or sitting around their homes, and I’m sitting there quietly picking out a word or two that I might understand because I took high school Spanish and there are some similarities there. And you know what? It’s just time for me to pick up another language, so in addition to the very little Spanish that I can understand and joke about speaking, maybe I’ll learn Italian. And so yeah, that’s going on in- Kira Hug: That’s so fun. Rob Marsh: … In my life right now. Yeah, it’s a lot easier than training for a marathon and 112 mile bike race and a two-mile swim all at the same time. Kira Hug: I don’t think it is. I am slightly jealous because I do want to learn another language desperately, but I also realize I tend to take on too much. And so I was like, don’t take on any other goals for now; just focus on what’s in front of you. But then I was thinking if I’m training for an Ironman, there’s a lot of time I have to just listen and think, and maybe that is the best time to learn a new language, just to listen to it while you’re on a long run. I don’t know if you’re going to do that and integrate the two together in your running and your bike riding. Rob Marsh: That’s a good idea. I hadn’t. I have thought about watching movies in Italian or TV shows, having those on in the background and trying to pick out what you know. I know that that’s one of the ways that you can get closer to being fluent in a language, but actually putting on Italian podcasts or that kind of thing as I’m running is actually a really good idea. So maybe I will do more of that. We’ll see. But yeah, catch us up on where you are with the marathon that you’ve got to be running in eight months, nine months? Not Marathon. Sorry. Triathlon. Kira Hug: Yeah. Well, I signed up officially, so I have shared with the community that I wan

Steph Trovato is our guest on the 329th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Steph is a copywriter who has been able to scale her business to $300k a year in just 3 years. In this episode, she shares the tools, strategies, support, and systems she’s put in place along the way to make it happen. Here’s a breakdown of the conversation: How Steph went from marketer for dental practices to freelancer and copywriter. Why she had to make the jump to full-time in her business and how she earned her first clients. Her pitching method – 100 pitches a week?! The most important step in the pitching process. How long she had to pitch before her business was sustainable. Her mindset and perspective shifts as she went full-time in her business. The transition from one-off projects to robust retainers. Can you be profitable and NOT be a launch copywriter? The power of being upfront about your pricing. How to set up a profitable retainer for your business. The reality of finding the perfect work schedule for your business and lifestyle. Steph’s mamba mentality – her approach to business, resilience, and dedication. Is it a sacrifice forever or just for a season? Here come those boundaries again… Why are they so vital for business growth and success? What really is a CEO retreat and how does affect business? How Steph breaks down her CEO retreats and how she stays productive. Why you need to find a supportive group of people who understand what you do. Creating goals that aren’t monetarily based. Creating truth to your purpose and the power you give to those around you. Tune into the episode by hitting play or reading the transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Join The Copywriter Accelerator waitlist The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Stephanie’s LinkedIn The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: Is it really possible to make six figures writing copy? How about three times that much. You might be thinking, “yeah, it’s a possibility, but only after decades or longer of cultivating the right clients and developing your sales skills.” That’s certainly one pathway there. But our guest for today’s episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast did it in just two years while primarily writing websites and content, not sales copy. Copywriter, Stephanie Trovato shares how she launched her business as a side hustle during COVID, then went full-time to avoid going back to the office. Two years later, she just cleared over $300,000 in her business. Steph told us how she did it and she filled us in on her CEO retreats, how she manages her time and family, and how the Copywriter Think Tank helped her do it. Kira Hug: But before we get into our interview with Steph, we want to talk about our sponsor for this episode, The Copywriter Think Tank. So I have all this promotional copy in front of me that I should read about the Think Tank and how amazing it is. But I think it’s better just to listen to the episode because Steph is a Think Tank member. She’s in year two of the Think Tank, and I think she is one of the best examples of what the Think Tank is all about. It’s about figuring out what else is possible for your business beyond the basics and beyond what you ever thought was possible for yourself and for your family, and for your own business and for your revenue. And so if you resonate with anything Steph is sharing in this episode, consider a Think Tank mastermind and apply. We’ll jump on a call and discuss whether or not it’s a good fit for you. But I think the best way to sum it up is like the Think Tank attracts people like Steph who want to challenge themselves and think differently about what they’re building and explore what’s possible for you. So, hope you can check that out if you’re interested and we’ll talk to you about it soon. You can learn more by visiting copywriterthinktank.com. Rob Marsh: Okay. As we usually do, let’s kick off this episode with some details about how Stephanie built a business that honestly earned $300,000 last year. Stephanie Trovato: I ended up as a copywriter because of COVID. I always did copywriting because I’m a marketer and I used to do dental marketing and wrote the website copy and social media and all that stuff. And I always liked it. And as a kid, I always liked writing in general. So I thought freelance writing would be a good way to earn some extra money because I was tired of waitressing to pay for daycare in addition to my full-time job. And so right before 2020, I started freelancing for Huffington Post. I made 150 an article and it was like so much money, like I have made 700 in one month and I was like, “oh my God, I could pay for daycare. This is so great. This is so much money.” And I decided to do it right from the beginning, so I made myself into a little LLC on

Andrea Grassi is our guest on the 328th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Andrea is a serial entrepreneur with 6 businesses, and he shares how he’s able to manage, build, and grow each business. If you’ve ever thought about expanding your sources of income, you’ll want to tune into this episode. Here’s how the conversation goes: How Andrea became a marketer and entrepreneur. The reality of growing a business. Why he decided to start a second business… and a third business and… The most important part about starting a business. A breakdown of each of his vastly different businesses. Why he doesn’t need to be the expert in every business. The ingredients needed to build any business. How to create profit in your business and create a successful chain. Why your revenue isn’t that important – here’s what is. The importance of paying attention to each weak link in your business. The 3 pillars to any successful business. How to begin making a marketing plan. The mindshifts that take place while growing multiple businesses. Are you making it harder than it needs to be? The 3 positions you hold as a business owner. How to calculate your business value in each position. Finding out when it’s time to grow a team. How to look for the right business partner. The balance between multiple businesses, business partners, and employees. How Andrea breaks up his time and energy between each business. Measuring success through KPI’s. Splitting the stakes in business – what’s the first step? Are you really working or are you just working? Why you need to add in your rest block FIRST. The importance of deadlines for you and your team. The benefits of compartmentalizing. Andrea’s biggest strength and weakness are the same? How riding horses has anything to do with business. Listen to the episode or read the transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Join The Copywriter Accelerator waitlist The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Andrea’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: There’s a well known and much shared idea that says that the average millionaire has seven different streams of income. They might earn money from serving clients in their business, from selling evergreen products, from a property rental, from stocks and other financial assets and so on. Our guest for today’s episode of The Copywriter Club podcast is Andrea Grassi. He’s a partner in six or seven different businesses that generate income for him and more importantly, he makes a major contribution as the marketing expert in each of the businesses he runs. And because running even a single business is a big challenge for most of us, we wanted to find out how he does it all. How does he find partners? What exactly does he do in each of his businesses? And maybe how more copywriters can create businesses like the ones Andrea has. There’s lots of great business building advice in this episode, so be sure to stick around for all of it. Kira Hug: This podcast episode is sponsored by New Orleans. This is a city that Rob and I are currently in right now. We’re together in New Orleans. We’re actually here for our think tank Mastermind retreat, which we just wrapped last night. And Rob, did you have a good time? Rob Marsh: That was amazing. Hanging out with these guys. They’re doing such cool things with their businesses and just talking about the challenges they have, working through some of those solutions and also listening to the presentations, the speakers that we had, talking about all kinds of things from processes to running a minimalist business that works, people who are doing amazing things, running six figure businesses, sometimes working three or four hours a day, four or five days a week. Yeah, it’s been really insightful. Kira Hug: It was so fun to have everyone in this same room together. It’s in a really intimate space for a couple of days just because we weren’t able to do it for a couple of years, and were finally able to start gathering together in person and doing more than even just learning together, which was fun to hear all the different presenters and learn, but we also had a lot of fun. We went out to dinner, we went on a ghost tour, a cemetery tour. We went out to a comedy show. It was just great to get out, and New Orleans is such a magical city and place to visit. I feel like it was the best place for us all to be. And so it was all part of the Think Tank because that’s what the Think Tank is about. It’s about gathering copywriters together so you can share brilliant ideas with each other and build your own network and meet new friends, build your network of other copywriters and create new experiences. Get yourself out of your comfort zone. Even traveling here was out of my comfort zone and just putting yourself out there in a new way to c

Mike Garner is our guest on the 327th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Mike is a message consultant who focuses on story-based emails that build connections and convert for small businesses. If you’ve ever struggled to share your story in a way that’s true to you, this episode will give you the inspiration to make it happen. Here’s what we chat about: How Mike went from translator to copywriter and how he uses his past experience today. The art of copywriting vs the art of other forms of writing – how’s it different? How you can use your title or label to your advantage. Why Mike decided to “sit down and do stuff” aka give copywriting a fair go. How digging out the trash, shame, and insecurities will make you a better writer and business owner. Developing your rags-to-riches story. What’s the point of writing for ourselves? Is anyone actually paying attention? Is that a good thing? Why you need to get over yourself… Mike’s personal memoir book writing process. When it might be a good idea to get back to the foundations of your business. Are you neglecting your own business, dreams, story? How The Copywriter Accelerator and Think Tank have given Mike much needed validation and how they’ve helped grow his business. Everyone’s in a rush… baby steps are great. Tune into the episode below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Join The Copywriter Accelerator waitlist The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Mike’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM     Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: Great writers of all kinds have at least one thing in common. They tell stories in copy, in content, in books, in poetry, sometimes even on packaging and postcards. There’s something magical about the way that stories hold our attention, and our guest for this episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is copywriter Mike Garner, who just finished an entire book about stories, a book that includes many of his own. While we were talking with Mike, we took the opportunity to also ask him about his experience with the Copywriter Accelerator program, what he learned from it, and how it’s informed what he’s doing in this business today. There’s a lot of good advice that you might be able to apply in your own business. Kira Hug: Rob, you are really good at writing introductions. I just have to note that right here, that was well written, well done. Rob Marsh: I don’t know. I don’t know about that. Kira Hug: I cannot write an introduction for the life of me, so I’m impressed. Before we jump into the conversation, this episode is sponsored by the Copywriter Accelerator, which Rob just mentioned. It is our five-month mastermind/coaching program for copywriters who want to build a profitable, sustainable copywriting business and make 10K a month in their business consistently. If you have interest or want to learn more about the Copywriter Accelerator, especially as we talk about it today with Mike. Go to the copywriteraccelerator.com to learn more about it. Doors do close, so fair warning, doors close to the program today at midnight when this episode goes live. If you’re on the fence, definitely move fast. Rob Marsh: Yes. Kira Hug: Okay, well let’s jump into the interview with Mike. Mike Garner: Where do I start? Well, I’ve been a freelancer for 25 odd years. I was living in France. I lived in France for 20 years. I was in about, it’s about 10 years into my time in France perhaps, and I got to the end of the road in terms of employment. I’ve been a travel agent, but I lost that particular job. I trained to be a teacher, an English teacher in France. It’s a competitive exam, so if they want to take 2000 candidates for example, sorry, and you come 2001st, well that’s just tough on you in the hierarchy if you like, and I missed it by 0.4%. Which was very galling at the time, but now I thank my lucky stars because me and the French education system wouldn’t have got along. But I got to the stage where I thought, “Well what can I do? I know I can speak English, I can speak French. Let’s be a translator.” This is the end of 1996 and you don’t know what you don’t know. The first translation I took was my one and only ever medical translation. This is in the days before AltaVista and even before Google, I just had a French English dictionary, like 20 years I had at school, and I did this translation with this thing. God knows how I got paid for it in the end, but I did. Anyway, to cut a very long story short, I built this thing up, starting by being amazed that people gave me work and then paid me for it, but you work things through. Then I got bored by being a, I got bored with translation because I got bored with translating other people’s bad French, because I heard some horrendous things and sorry engineers, but engineers battl

Tara Lassiter is our guest on the 326th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. After a 12-year career as a model and actress for QVC, Tara shifted into the copywriting space and became an email strategist. Whether you need to up your networking skills, need to make faster decisions, or you want to dabble into the world of TikTok, you’ll find yourself scribbling notes through the entire episode. Why Tara went from model and actress for QVC to email strategist. How is QVC similar to copywriting? Where she found her first copywriting clients. How The Copywriter Accelerator helped her propel her business forward. Do you brag about yourself? Here’s why you should. Dating vs marrying your decisions. How to hone in on what your audience wants to see from you. How to go from overthinking to taking action and accomplishing. Starting on TikTok – where do you begin? Create two versions of yourself… Here’s how. How to get more done with a limited amount of hours. Navigating the challenge of shifting from copywriter to strategist. Why you absolutely need to find a network and how it’ll change your business (and life). How to tap into your current network if you’ve never done it before. The added benefit of creating frameworks and how they help you AND your clients. Being realistic about your time and why setting realistic expectations is vital. How Tara balances being a homeschool mom, business owner, and wife. Is it really about being the breadwinner? The advice she would give to her past self. Listen to the episode below or read the transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Join The Copywriter Accelerator waitlist The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Tara’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM Episode 157 Episode 269   Full Transcript:   Rob Marsh: Imagine for a minute selling more than a million dollars worth of a product in about an hour’s time. What should you get paid for something like that? What would you learn from that experience, and how could you repeat that with other clients? Our guest for today’s episode of the Copywriter Club podcast did exactly that. Copywriter and customer journey strategist, Tara Lassiter, helped sell a million dollars of lotion on QVC and made $100 for her effort. She joined us to share how that experience, along with the Copywriter Accelerator and a great network that she has built around her, helped launch her career as a copywriter. We think you’re going to like this episode. Kira Hug: But first, this podcast is sponsored by the Copywriter Accelerator. Shocking, right? Tara was a member, she’s an Accelerator alumni member, so you’ll hear a little bit more about the program in this conversation. Before that, it is a five-month coaching and Mastermind program for copywriters who want to build a profitable copywriting business and get closer to the 10K-a-month mark. If you feel like that could be you and you want the support and the systems and the blueprints to help you get there, along with coaching from the two of us and the support of a tight-knit community, we’ve bundled it all into the Copywriter Accelerator. We know it works because we’ve been doing it for five years now. So if you have any interest, you can jump onto the waitlist, and we will drop the link to that in the show notes. Tara Lassiter: It started a long time ago, a little over a decade ago. In my past life, I was a model and an actress. My main client was QVC. There was one particular show, an hour-long show, where I had rubbed lotion all over my body for an hour. At the end of the hour everyone started to cheer. It was because we had sold a million dollars worth of body butter. I started to cheer and cheer and cheer. Then it dawned on me that I had made a hundred bucks in that million-dollar hour. I wasn’t jealous or anything, but I was so intrigued. How did they make a million dollars in an hour? So I started to do research on buyer psychology and marketing. It led me to copywriting because I didn’t even know what the word was. I understood that there were triggers that were happening within the hour while we were on television that encouraged people to buy. So I started buying copywriting courses and books. I bought John Carlton’s… I think it’s called Kick-Ass Copywriting in 2014 or something like that. I’ve just pulled up the receipt. So I’ve been reading books and doing courses, but modeling was kind of golden handcuffs. I enjoyed it, and I worked with people that I loved. It wasn’t a bad gig. It paid well and it was really flexible. I got to travel. So it was really cool. I wasn’t able to pursue copywriting until the pandemic shut everything down. Then there were a lot of castings that disappeared, and the ones that were, they would say you need to show proof that you had COVID already. Because before there

Over 271 episodes later, we’ve FINALLY brought back Chanti Zak for the 325th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. From solo copywriter to agency owner, Chanti breaks down her journey over the last few years, and how she became known as THE quiz funnel expert. Her insights on growing a thriving business are ones you won’t want to miss. Here’s what we talk about: Why Chanti made the decision to hire a team and how it’s helped her grow her OWN business. Hitting a 50/50 revenue mark between clients and courses. What unique advantage do copywriters have over other business owners? How to use your energy for what you love and avoid burnout (especially when growing a family). Who was her first team member and what did they do? When to start saying “no” to client work and “yes” to your own business. How to set your team up for success and realizations that will save you time, money, and a headache. Why your business needs to be more like Mcdonald’s. The importance of having a system for everything in your business. How to break the people-pleasing pattern. Why you need to create boundaries and implement them. Where does Chanti’s copywriting energy go nowadays? Mindset shifts to go from copywriter to CEO. The challenges of writing for yourself vs. writing for clients. Should you become an e-commerce copywriter? The negative bias around shifting your content. How quizzes can work for YOUR business and why they’re still effective. Tools for building a growth mindset and handling tough conversations. How The Copywriter Accelerator helped establish foundations for her business. What’s possible in a short period of time? Press play to listen to the episode or read the transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Join The Copywriter Accelerator The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Chanti’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM Episode 54 Episode 141 Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: If you listen to last week’s episode, you know that from time to time, we like to have previous guests come back and talk about the evolution of their businesses since the last time that we spoke. This week, we’re doing it again. Our guest for this episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is former Copywriter Accelerator member and former Copywriter Think Tank member, Chanti Zak. Chanti shared the details about the three phases of her business that she’s gone through over the last couple of years since we last talked to her and when she first started out as a copywriter. And if you are just starting out or you’re thinking about what your business could become in the future, you’re going to find a lot of inspiration in what Chanti has to share today. Kira Hug: But first, this podcast episode is sponsored by The Copywriter Accelerator, which is our five-month mastermind/coaching program for copywriters who want to build a profitable copywriting business and make roughly $10,000 a month in their business consistently. So if that grabbed your attention, if that’s what you want to do in the New Year, then join the wait list for The Copywriter Accelerator, and you can do that by going to thecopywriteraccelerator.com. Rob Marsh: Okay, let’s get to our interview with Chanti. Kira Hug: Let’s just rewind a little bit. We don’t have to cover everything that’s happened since we last chatted, but can you share a highlight reel with one of your highlights from the last two years post-COVID? Chanti Zak: Oh my gosh. From the last two years, probably one of the biggest things has been building a team and just working with a lot more brilliant humans and learning how to ask for help and support in my business, but also in life. Rob Marsh: We’ll link to the first interview. In fact, we’ve talked to you a couple times on the podcast, if I’m not mistaken, Chanti. But we’re going to link back to those so that people can catch up and hear how you built your business and how you literally went from getting laid off to creating this business. But we should probably also not only have you just built the team, but let’s talk a little bit about where you are in your business, the kinds of things that you’re doing today, the kinds of courses and work that you do for the clients. When we talked that first time, you didn’t have this huge roster of famous, big name marketers and copywriters and the who’s who of the internet that you have today. So tell us about that business. Chanti Zak: Yeah. Oh my gosh, it’s been a wild ride. So yeah, I think the first time I was on the pod was totally solo, really just figuring things out and I feel like I had no clue where I was headed or what I was doing. And today, I sometimes feel the same way, but I have a little agency, so that’s a big change because demand for quizzes became so impossible for me to meet by myself that it

Our guest on the 324th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Brian Kurtz. His 3rd appearance on the show is a good indicator that there’s no lack of what Brian is able to share with our audience. From gaining rights to one of the most notable books in advertising history to teaching copywriters how to be better marketers, this a conversation you won’t want to miss. Here’s what we cover: What Brian learned from having a near-fatal stroke at the same time as a book launch. Why he decided to launch a mastermind. Gaining rights to Breakthrough Advertising and selling over 10,000 copies. Is Brian a copywriter in secret? How he makes the principles inside Breakthrough Advertising doable. Can a book from the 60s still apply to today’s marketing arena? Creating upsells and bonuses for added value to customers. Is it a good idea to write a book? The reality of book launches. How to get better at relationship building. Why Brian hates the word “networking.” Giving more than you get – is it worth it? Press play or read the transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Join The Copywriter Accelerator The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Brian’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM Kim’s website Episode 22 Episode 219 Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: If you’ve been a copywriter for more than a few days, you’ve almost certainly been advised to read Eugene Schwartz’s book, Breakthrough Advertising. It’s listed on almost every list of the best copywriting books that I’ve ever seen, and it’s true, this book is a must-read, but it’s probably not the first book that you should read about copywriting, or marketing. It’s a bit of a hard book to read, and the concepts are a little bit challenging. Our guest for this episode of The Copywriter Club podcast is Brian Kurtz, who along with Eugene Schwartz’s wife, makes that book, Breakthrough Advertising, available to the world. He has recently created a companion volume called Breakthrough Advertising Mastery, that makes Schwartz’s book even more accessible for anyone who has struggled with the concepts that he lays out in the book. So, we talked to Brian about that book, what he’s been up to since we last spoke about a year and a half ago, and it’s always great to connect with him. We think you’re going to like this interview. But, before we get to our interview with Brian, I want to introduce my co-host this week. She’s our friend and A-list copywriter, Kim Krause Schwalm. Welcome back to the show, Kim. Kim Krause Schwalm: Oh, it’s great to be here. Rob Marsh: Yeah, I’m excited for this. You’ve been on the show a couple of times. We’ll share those episodes at the end, so we make sure everybody can come back and listen to it. You’ve also spoken at TCC IRL a couple of times. Kim Krause Schwalm: Three or four times. Yeah. Rob Marsh: Yeah. You’ve been an awesome friend to The Copywriter Club, and just getting your ideas and feedback on the show. I’m really looking forward to it. Kim Krause Schwalm: I am too. Thanks. It’s weird to be in this role on the podcast, but I am excited. As soon as you said, “Brian Kurtz.” He is somebody that I have so much respect for. I’ve known him for many years, and so yeah, I’m happy to be here, and hopefully I can add some value as well. Rob Marsh: Yeah. Knowing how close you and Brian are, it was just a no-brainer to have you come and share some ideas. So, thank you for that. So, before we jump into the interview, let me just take a moment to remind you that this episode of The Copywriter Club podcast is sponsored by the Copywriter Accelerator. It’s not a course, it’s a five month long mentoring program, where we follow the Acceleration Formula, to create the foundation for a profitable business that doesn’t struggle, doesn’t struggle with things like pricing, or packages, or finding clients. You learn critical mindset strategies, you set goals, get accountability, and dive into the business skills, like positioning, pricing, creating client experiences, and getting yourself hired by the clients you want to work with. Most importantly, we’ll introduce you to a curated network of copywriters who will help you get unstuck, and build a business that lasts. The next round of the Accelerator starts soon, so get on the waitlist now at thecopywriteraccelerator.com. Kim Krause Schwalm: So, I think we need to get on with this interview. That was a great intro to that program, and I know a lot of people that have gone through it, and I think it’s an excellent way to kickstart your copywriting career. But yeah, let’s get on, and hear from Brian. Brian Kurtz: Just to catch people up, I’m still alive, which is a good thing. Had a near-fatal stroke the day after m

On the 323rd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Sara Rosinsky joins the show. Sara’s initial career plan was to be a stand-up comedian, but ultimately she decided to focus on her very enjoyable day job in a Boston advertising agency, writing copy. Sara is also the author of Unflubbify Your Writing: Bite-Sized Lessons to Improve Your Spelling, Punctuation, and Grammar, a book intended to help people avoid making common mistakes in English. Sara’s career spans from agency life, to in-house, and freelance copywriting, so you’re not going to want to miss all the insight she shares. Here’s how it all goes down: How Sara landed her first agency job that lasted over 10 years. The creative process at an agency and being able to learn everything on the job. How to become more confident in the words you write. Why you need to have passion for all of your ideas even when they don’t make it out. What’s the real story behind working in-house? Is it a good idea to go rogue and start freelancing? Which route is for you? How her two freelance endeavors are different. To niche or not to niche. Why she decided to get consistent on LinkedIn and how she built an audience who wanted to work with her. How to create a sales force for free. Packaging deliverables for out-of-state projects – what’s the best route? Her approach to LinkedIn and how she comes up with content ideas. Sara’s mantra for copywriters. How she makes many things work at one time. What can you make happen in 27 minutes? Her book writing process and why she decided to write a book. The most common mistakes people make when writing and speaking. How to channel creativity outside of work. Listen to the episode or read the transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Join The Copywriter Accelerator The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Sara’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM Episode 4 Episode 6 Episode 282 Gin’s website Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: A few weeks ago, I wrote an email to all of the people on The Copywriter Club list that included some crazy math about skill compounding. Because I know a lot of copywriters say they don’t like math, I added the phrase, “Bear with me,” to my email as I explained how it worked. Only I wrote B-A-R-E instead of the correct form of the word, B-E-A-R. What’s worse is that I realized my mistake and I meant to correct it, but before I could, I had to run out, pick up my daughter from school. By the time I got back, I forgot. I hit send with my mistake in place. Fortunately, dozens of you caught my mistake and wrote back to point it out, which I really do appreciate, by the way. One of those kind correctors was our guest for this episode of The Copywriter Club podcast, copywriter and etymologist, Sara Rosinsky. When she responded to my mistake, she offered to come on the podcast and clarify this beastly language that we all speak and make it fun and memorable. We’re thrilled to have Sara on the show today to talk about her business and some of the stickiest language problems that we all deal with as copywriters. But before we get to our interview, let me introduce my co-host for the week, copywriter Gin Walker, who writes for educators and online experts. She helps them connect with their audiences. Welcome back to the podcast, Gin. Gin Walker: Hey, Rob, thank you so much. It’s so awesome to be here. I’m especially pleased to be here for this episode actually thinking about Sara’s fascination with grammar and punctuation and so on, because I spent a good two decades of my life as an editor. And so this is kind of my bag as well. I’m particularly pleased to be here. Rob Marsh: Yeah, that’s partly why I thought of you- Gin Walker: Oh, really? Rob Marsh: … thinking, “Hey, who should we have come on and help?” And I thought Gin would be perfect because she’s kind of into this stuff too. Gin Walker: Totally, totally. Rob Marsh: This is going to be a great conversation. Also at this point, I need to make sure that everybody knows this podcast episode is sponsored by the Copywriter Think Tank. If you’re looking for a mastermind/coaching program to help you scale your business, check out copywriterthinktank.com for more information. You get one-on-one coaching, not just from Kira and myself, but we have coaches for mindset and for systems and processes and for visibility. There’s still time to get in and join us for our next in-person retreat in New Orleans in January. Go to copywriterthinktank.com for more information about that. Gin Walker: Yes, absolutely. Please, may I say, I am an alumni of the Think Tank and I cannot sing its praises highly enough. Get in there. You will learn so much. It’s just a hugely uplifting experience in every sense. Let’s get to this interview with Sara. Sara Rosinsky: I graduated from co

Martha Barnard-Rae joins the show for the 322nd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Martha is a copywriter and TEDx speaker who opens up the conversation about how getting to know yourself makes you a better business owner. After an ADHD diagnosis, she’s learned to put a different lens on her business and lean into tools and resources that work for her, and let go of what doesn’t. This episode reframes what we understand about ADHD and self-discovery and it’s one you won’t want to miss. How she ended up an English teacher in the most isolated city in the world. Finding a mentor and providing equal value to each other. Why her business partnership ended and how she ended it. How she stumbled into a diagnosis of ADHD and how it’s affected her business. The importance of learning about yourself and tools you can utilize. Why you need to show yourself compassion. How she became a TEDx speaker and how she continues to seek opportunities. The time management struggle… How to manage your time. How taking a break when you need one can save you and your business. Why you need to have an honest conversation with yourself. How to stay in your lane and focus on things you love. Do you have the right systems in place when things go wrong? Smash that play button or check out the transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Join The Copywriter Accelerator The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Martha’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM Masha’s website   Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: Building a successful copywriting business is a challenge even when everything is running smoothly. But that almost never happens as most listeners would know. Several of our guests on the podcast in the past year started their business during the pandemic and worked really hard to overcome the challenges that presented. But there are other challenges to face down things like difficult clients growing your skills and some copywriters even have challenges, like things like ADHD. Today’s guest on The Copywriter Club Podcast is Martha Barnard-Rae and she opened up about what it’s like to run and grow a copywriting business with ADHD. And if you struggled with focus or lack of attention, you may want to stick around for this one. And even if you haven’t, there’s a lot of really good advice that she offers that applies to all copywriter businesses. And now let me remind you that this podcast is sponsored by the Copywriter Accelerator. That’s our program that helps copywriters, content creators, and other marketers lay a solid foundation for their business. If you are already a good writer, you’re already good at the thing that you do, but you’re still struggling to build a business that supports you, the Copywriter Accelerator is the program that can help you get over the hump from thinking about your business as a CEO instead of as a writer or a service provider to strategies for getting yourself out in front of the right clients, building a great brand, creating packages that people want to buy the Accelerator will help you set up your business for success in the coming year and beyond. Go to the copywriteraccelerator.com now to join the waitlist so that you get notified as soon as we open up and we will link to that in the show notes just in case you are driving or otherwise occupied and can’t look that up right now. And before we get to our interview, let me introduce my co-host today. It’s Masha Koyen. Masha is a copywriter and strategist for interior designers and builders. She’s a member of the Copywriter Think Tank and a former Accelerator member. Masha, welcome. Thanks for being here. Masha Koyen: Thanks so much for having me Rob. And thanks for the introduction and I’m so honored to be here. I’ve been a loyal listener for over three years and as you mentioned, I’ve been in Accelerator and now in the Think Tank and I absolutely love both communities. They’ve given me such tremendous support and community accountability and weekly trainings, all those things. So thank you so much. Rob Marsh: Amazing. So I’m thrilled to have you here and we’re going to chat in just a few minutes, but for now, let’s get to our interview with Martha. Martha Barnard-Rae: I was a teacher, I used to be an English teacher. So I live in a place called Denmark, Western Australia, which is on the southwest corner of Western Australia, 450 kilometers south of Perth, which is the most isolated city in the world. And the school that I worked at was 70 kilometers away from my house and my husband is the only paramedic in that place. So his hours are really weird and I was just, “I feel like doing all this driving and all of this stuff is just too hard and I don’t think it’s supposed to be this hard.” So I started looking for something

Mariam Vossough is our guest on the 321st episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Mariam is a copywriter and scriptwriter who is breaking into TikTok as a means to connect with her ideal client: Gen X women. The insights she shares will not only help you become a better writer but just might give you the courage to give TikTok a shot. Here’s what we talk about: Mariam’s start in the cutting room and how she became in charge of the entire story office. Her transition to children’s author after becoming a mother. Are children’s book writers cooler than copywriters? Self-publishing vs. finding an agent – which route should you take? Why copywriting is the best career for never-ending learners. How she stumbled across copywriting and why she joined The Copywriter Accelerator. What’s the process for turning a mediocre story into great content? How copy structure is an art form and why it can change the entire dynamic of the reader’s experience. Why your ego has no place in the editing room. How Mariam tears apart copy and creates a better end product. The day-to-day of being on a writing team and writing stories for episodes. How her scriptwriting career made her fearless and develop a thick skin. How to create better open loops and cliffhangers. When she knew she was ready to transition her career. What her business looks like today and why it took her longer to niche down. How she discovered her niche and what helped her get there. Why marketers need to pay more attention to gen X women and why they’re being ignored in the first place. Showing up on TikTok – what works and who should use it? 5 steps to getting started on TikTok TODAY. How she breaks down her content pillars on social media. Creating content on TikTok without dancing. Play this episode for immediate inspiration. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Join The Accelerator Waitlist The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Connect with Mariam on TikTok and Linkedin Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM Jenn Prochaska’s episode Episode 75 Episode 177 Episode 276 Jenn’s TikTok Full Transcript: Kira Hug: Niching down, owning your personal brand and showing up as your wild self on social media often feels like a huge obstacle for copywriters like us. But as business owners, it’s kind of unavoidable, especially early on in our business when we don’t have a team. The good news is we control how we niche, how we brand ourselves, and how we show up in the world. And our guest on this week’s podcast is the perfect example of a writer who’s not only taken control over her brand identity, but who has also built a business that provides meaning to her. And she’s done it in her own way with a brilliant sense of humor and grace. Mariam Vossough is a copywriter, screenwriter, and TikTok nerd. And after this episode, you just might rethink how you show up on social media and you just might find yourself creating a TikTok account. I know she’s almost convinced me, like not quite, but almost, so close. And before we jump into the interview, I want to introduce my lovely co-host this week who is feeling a little under the weather, and I appreciate her being here. So welcome back to the show, Jenn Prochaska, who is a brand messaging strategist, writer, also a guest on episode 307, which is one of my favorite episodes where we talked about overcoming addiction, scaling a business, parenthood. We went deep and Jenn was so transparent and real throughout the entire conversation. If you haven’t listened to it, you’ve got to listen to it. So Jenn, thanks for coming back, especially when you’re not feeling so great. Jenn Prochaska: Yeah, thanks Kira. Yeah, I’m keeping it real. I’m a little congested, but I’m super excited to talk about Mariam… Podcast. Kira Hug: All right, great. And so before we jump in, this episode is brought to you by the Copywriter Accelerator. We are really excited because we are about to launch this program. We’re about to jump in with a bunch of copywriters and get started. So we’re currently offering early bird access to this business building program where we get to work with you over five months to put all the pieces of your business together. So you can go from feeling like an order taker to really feeling more like a CEO and in control of your business. And if you have any interest in joining or just checking it out, you can join early and save some cash, which is always nice. And you can check out more information in the show notes. You will hear a good amount about it today because our podcast guest is an Accelerator alumni member. So you’ll hear a little bit more about it. All right, let’s jump into the interview with Mariam. Mariam Vossough: I’ll try to do the potted history ’cause I’m very, very old, so there’s quite a lot. I always wa

On the 320th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Rob and Kira sit down to debrief 2022. What worked? What didn’t? And what’s coming up in the month of December and into the new year? As you begin to reflect on the past year and plan for the next, you’ll find advice and book recommendations to guide you into a successful 2023. Here’s how the episode breaks down: Why you need to join the Strategic Growth Plan challenge TODAY. The difference between how Rob and Kira change their behavior. Trying out a different email style… Masterclasses and diary entries? Is Kira ready to move again? Early-bird for Accelerator is opening when?! CEO retreats – do you need them in your life? Why roles can change when your business grows. How stepping into a leadership role can help your business. Productivity and time management book recommendations for 2023. Check out the episode below or read the transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Join The Accelerator Waitlist Join the 5-Day Challenge The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM     Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: Okay, so welcome everyone to the Copywriter Club Podcast. This is our 10th episode since the last time that Kira and I were together and just chatting about what’s going on in our lives and our business and the things that we’ve got coming up that we’re excited about. And so as we like to do, we’re jumping back in to give you another update on what’s happening so that you know what to look forward to from the Copywriter Club. Kira Hug: Yeah. And we thought it would be fun to reflect, as many of us are reflecting at this time of year on what has happened over this past year, good and bad so that we can be more intentional as we move into the new year. Rob Marsh: Every time we talk about what we’ve done, Kira, I feel like your list is always so long because you always move, you have a new kid, you do all these amazing things and I’m like, “Huh, I wonder what I did this year.” I got to come up with something while you’re talking. Kira Hug: I think you’ve done many things you just didn’t have quite as much time to prep as I did. So I had lots of time to think about everything that happened this past year. So we’re going to share again, just like some wins and struggles, personal, and professional from the two of us. And then we are going to talk about what’s happening this week in the Copywriter Club, what’s happening next month, this month. So we’ll try to stay on track and stay focused. I think focus might be the theme for today’s… I was going to say today’s interview, today’s conversation – Rob Marsh: Episode. Yeah. And if you are used to the longer episodes and you were looking forward to that, we hate to disappoint you. And if you think that other episodes are too long, this one might be right up your alley because it will probably be a bit shorter. Kira Hug: Yeah, because let’s be transparent, it’s Friday; it’s my end of day. Not quite your end of day, but it’s Friday. So we’re going to keep this short and sweet. Rob Marsh: Yes. So Kira, why don’t you kick us off. Let’s talk about some of the stuff, the wins that you’ve had. And since we’re really talking about end-of-year reflection, we’ll go into that a bit more later. Yeah. What’s happened this year that’s been exciting for you? Kira Hug: All right. So I do have my lengthy list in front of me. I’m going to try to just highlight a couple. Like you said, I move frequently. So yeah, moving was a big win. Moving is hard. I hope to never move again, ever. So that was a big deal. And it’s also rewarding because I really like where I live now and I don’t want to leave Maine anytime soon. So I think that’s a win. Rob Marsh: Yeah, definitely a win. And my win is that I didn’t move, which means I didn’t have to box up any of the books that I own or any of the stuff that, the whole mess of moving. I’ve avoided that for yet another year in a row. I think I’ve lived in this house now for about 17 and a half years and my goal is to make it 18 and a half. Kira Hug: I think I told you before that we have a team of movers. We get a special discount because we move so frequently and we just work with the same team of movers. And every time we move Slava, who’s our main guy, he comes to me, he’s like, “You have too many books.” He’s just like, “You need to get rid of some of your books.” Which I will never do. So that was a win. I also eased back into monthly CEO retreats, which I had to take a pause on those. While baby Homer was kind of young, it was just tricky to do those monthly and spend a night at a hotel to reall

Sue Bowness is our guest on the 319th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Sue is a content writer and professor who helps her clients and students tell better stories through content. In this episode, she shares her insights on the content writing industry and how it’s changed over her two-decade long freelance career. Tune in to find out: The real difference between being a business owner vs being an employee. The mindset reframe you need to take on when you decide to start your own business. Copywriting vs content writing… Are they the same? What is the true value of content writing and how do you position it to clients? How much can you actually charge for ONE blog post? Are you stuck on finding a niche? Try this. How can you make a boring topic tolerable to read? What does it take to run a profitable business for two decades? How to navigate trends and changes to your industry. How to be more productive as a full-time business owner? Creating multiple income streams to fulfill different passions. How joining the Think Tank helped her business and the power of being surrounded by high-level ambition. Are you writing your business emails the wrong way? Do you need a college degree to be a content writer? The skills that crossover with degrees and other business experience. Check out the episode below or read the transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Sue’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM James Turner’s episode (79) Episode 227 Episode 244   Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: We talk a lot about copy on this podcast. I mean, it’s in the name, The Copywriter Club Podcast. So over the past few years, we’ve spent hours talking about persuasion, and sales, and calls to action, and dozens of other copywriting strategies and tactics. We don’t often talk about content, although the last couple of episodes we have talked about content, but it is a really big part of the work that many copywriters do. So today’s guest on the podcast is content writer and strategist Sue Bowness. We asked Sue why more copywriters should take on content projects. We also talked with her about the things that she’s done that had the biggest impact on her business, how disciplined she is with her schedule, and a lot more. So stick around to hear what she had to share with us. Before we do all of that though, this episode is sponsored by the Copywriter Underground. We recently rebuilt the entire back end of the underground to make it easier to find the training and resources that members of the underground have access to. Everything from creating the perfect proposal, which is one of the trainings in the Underground, to running a successful sales call, which is another training that’s in there, to more than 40 in-depth newsletters on topics like persuasion, overcoming objections, managing your time, getting more done. I’m barely scratching the surface here. There are monthly coaching calls, weekly copy critiques, and a fantastic group of supportive copywriters in our exclusive Facebook group. Check it all out at thecopywriterunderground.com. And one more thing before we get to our interview with Sue. I feel like I’m going on and on here, but I need to introduce my guest host for the day, James Turner. James is a conversion copywriter, marketing collaborator who’s worked in SaaS, tech, and education and e-commerce and about, I don’t know, 50 other niches. I’m going to ask him about that in just a second. Once more, James is a friend going back six or seven years. At parties, I’ve called him my wingman as he introduces me around. He’s a bit of an extrovert, which is an exception around copywriters. Welcome back to the show, James. James Turner: Hi Rob. Thanks. It’s great to be back. Rob Marsh: And you don’t have a niche, right, or do you have a niche? I mean, you’ve worked in lots of niches. James Turner: No, I remain nicheless. Rob Marsh: Okay, you’re one of the few. We may have to sell you a program on choosing a niche or something someday. We’ll see. James Turner: I’d buy that. Rob Marsh: Okay, so let’s get to our interview with Sue and hear what she has to say about being a content writer. Sue Bowness: I’ve actually wanted to be a writer since grade three, so that was exciting. I actually have my grade seven autobiography on my bookshelf over there and it says, “Wants to be a writer.” So I guess as I grew up it was like how do I actually make that happen, right? Because the writer that I wanted to be were the writers that I read as a child, right? Because I was always a big reader, and so I wanted to be like Gordon Korman, or Shel Silverstein, or Lois Lowry. And then I was like, but I need to make a living at this, and so how do I do that? And I became