The Copywriter Club Podcast

We’ve been lucky to be mentored by several copywriters and marketers over the past few years. We met one of our mentors—Brian Kurtz—when we interviewed him way back in the beginning days of The Copywriter Club. He’s our guest, for the second time, on the 219th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We asked Brian about his stroke, how he’s changed his business this past year and a lot more, including: • using excuses to NOT do what needs to be done • how Brian predicted COVID with changes he made to his business • retiring from all the things you don’t like to do • Brian’s massive stroke and the impact it had on his business • the legacy Brian wants to leave to future generations • what he’s learned from the greatest copywriters ever • why copywriters need to own their own media • the different ways businesses have pivoted over the past year • the different “clicks” on the dial that solve your client’s problems • what he’s learned by starting a membership community • his strategy for getting his members to renew each year • what it would take to have a career like Brian’s today • why Brian—the strategic schmoozer—hates networking • the persuasive reminder that Brian keeps in his wallet • how he implements reciprocation into everything he does—and why • the “ask from nowhere” that doesn’t work and how to avoid it • his advice to anyone going through a serious challenge right now • givers and takers and where they land on the success ladder It was great to take a few minutes to catch up with Brian. To hear the interview, scroll down and hit the play button. Keep scrolling for a full transcript and links to the things we mentioned. And, of course, you can subscribe with your favorite podcast app to make sure you never miss an episode. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Brian’s book: Overdeliver overdeliverbook.com CoCo Dan Kennedy Gordon Grossman Robin Robins Stefan Georgi’s RMBC Influence by Robert Cialdini Give and Take by Adam Grant Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Transcript is underway…    

One of the things that keeps waaaay too many copywriters from achieving their goals is fear. Which is a little odd because it’s not like our work puts us in dangerous or risky situations. We’re not fighting fires or facing down bad guys. And we’re not standing on a trapeze platform high above the ground, mustering the courage to jump. But that’s a very real situation that Annie Bacher, our guest for the 218th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast has experienced. She told us about it—and the lesson it holds for copywriters everywhere—in this interview. We also talked about: • how she went from writing about Argentinian circus artists to writing for clients • the “fear-less” lesson Annie learned from her trapeze artist that changed her outlook • the importance of the early career feedback Annie got from her first boss • the “what not to do” lessons she learned in her first copywriting job • the catalyst for leaving her job and going out on her own • why doing your own thing doesn’t mean you’re working on your own • the different ways Annie has grown (and changed her biz) over the last year • how cutting down on what she does has made business more enjoyable • when Kira and Rob feel the “fear” in their work • lightning decision jams and how she’s made them part of her business • a framework for brainstorming solutions to sticky problems • how you can create a workshop offer for your own business • the “big promise” for the client when they participate in an LDJ • the kinds of clients who are best for a workshop like the LDJ • Annie’s experience in the Copywriter Think Tank—what she likes most • what she’s struggled with in her business • the advice she would give to Annie from a few years ago • what we thought about the LDJs that we experienced • why it’s okay that nobody has it all figured out This is a great interview packed with ideas you can use in your business. To hear it, scroll down and click the play button. Keep scrolling for a transcript. Or download this episode to your favorite podcast player. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Bird by Bird by Anne Lamott Annie’s website Miro The Copywriter Underground Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group   Full Transcript: Transcript is underway…    

When it comes to creating the belief that you can deliver what your clients need, or that the products and services you write about will deliver a real transformation, nothing works better than a good demonstration. Our guest for episode 217 of The Copywriter Club Podcast is film maker and story teller, Jude Charles, who loves to talk about his formula for demonstrating proof. We covered a lot of ground in this interview, including… • how Jude became a brand strategist and story teller • why he wrote 11 “books” about his future life and whether he got it right • using 10 year blocks to figure out where he is going • the teacher who gave him a set of business cards and kicked off his career • how he struggled to earn a few thousand dollars and the moment he almost gave up • the difference between perspective and vision (and getting the right lens) • figuring out the marketing and sales process to land better clients • what copywriters should do to help clients understand what they can deliver • what we all wanted to be when we “grew up” • why sales and marketing doesn’t end when a client hires you • what Jude covers in his roadmapping sessions—the stories he’s looking for • how Jude uncovers the hidden stories his clients should be telling • the differences between telling stories in copy and video • coaching clients to understand that what they share is actually interesting • why strategy is such an important part of what copywriters do • why a film maker came to our event TCCIRL, then wore a cape the following year • what it takes to raise your prices from hundreds to tens of thousands of dollars • the confidence folder—and how Jude uses it to boost his performance • the moments in his life that led to big leaps in mindset and success As usual, this episode is definitely worth a listen. Scroll down to find the play button… and a little farther to find a full transcript of the interview. But what you really should do is subscribe on your favorite podcast player so you never miss an episode. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Stefan Georgi Ramit Sethi Ben Settle The Promo Jude Made for Us TCCIRL Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Kira: David Ogilvy once wrote that visual demonstrations are effective because they help visualize your promise. They save time since you don’t have to talk about what your product does, you can simply show it, and they are also memorable. But too many copywriters miss the chance to demonstrate the impact of their products and services, or their client’s products. Our guest for the 217th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Jude Charles. Jude is a brand strategist, storyteller, and filmmaker who’s passionate about the power of demonstrations and visual proof. Rob: But before we dive into the demonstrations and proof, this episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Underground. That’s the membership community designed to help you create a more successful copywriting business. As a member, you have access to more than 60 hours of insightful training, group coaching calls, copy teardowns and reviews, weekly creative exercises, and our exclusive print newsletter mailed directly to your home. Go to thecopywriterunderground.com to learn more. Kira: This is actually our second interview with Jude, the first one was lost when we had a technical glitch. So, we’re thankful that Jude came back at all to answer our questions all over again. And with that, let’s jump in. All right, so, Jude, let’s start with your story. How did you end up as a brand strategist, storyteller, and filmmaker? Jude Charles: So, I have always been interested in storytelling. From a very young age, eight years old, I wasn’t the kid that would be outside playing basketball or football, even inside the house, I wasn’t the kid that played video games. Instead, I would lock myself in a room after school and I would write. And what I was writing was these 100 page books of what I thought my future life would look like. So, I wrote books like The Police Life of Jude Charles, because growing up, I wanted to be a police officer, and The Baseball Life of Jude Charles. But in all, I wrote 11 books. Kira: Oh my God. Rob: So, more details here, what was The Police Life of Jude Charles like? Then, how developed were these stories? Jude Charles: These stories were pretty developed because I was thinking 20 years into the future, so even though I was writing it as an eight-year-old child, I was writing it as if I was 28. Rob: I love this. Jude Charles: So, for me, it was just like, what could my future life look like? If I became a police officer, if I became a baseball player, what would that look like? And so, I wrote 11 books. And then, I got into high school, and in high school, I took a TV production class. And the teacher, Mrs. Donnelly, she taught me everything that she k

Writing copy with personality is hard. So what does it take to do it? We invited copywriter and brand ventriloquist Justin Blackman to talk about how he does it for the 216th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast—and to give us an update on everything he’s done since our first interview with him way back in episode 59. If you’re looking for ways to write with more personality, this interview is for you. Here’s what we covered: • a recap of what he’s done in his business for the past 4 years • how he doubled his salary a year after leaving his full-time gig • how important building his authority was—and the result • when it’s time to move on to the next thing in your career • recreating your job/career as new opportunities arise • what it takes to build the confidence to move forward • taking on big challenges as a way to grow your authority and business • the investments Justin has made in mindset • how Justin’s ego kept him from writing his best work • Justin’s advice to anyone who feels like they aren’t as far along as they should be • how to write with more personality—the formulas that work • how to figure out your own unique voice • why so many voice guides are useless and what to do instead • Justin’s WTF framework and how it captures the 3 parts of brand voice • the things we’ve done in our businesses to change our mindsets • Kira’s brand strategy guides and what they include • the program he’s created to help others write with personality • how he gets everything done—it starts with working on his own stuff first • how to have fun while working as a copywriter • his tattoo story—this goes back to what he said about ego getting in the way As usual, this is a great episode you won’t want to miss. Scroll down and hit the play button, or scroll a little farther to read a full transcript. Or download the episode to your podcast player. Better still, subscribe and never miss an episode. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Episode 59 Never Lose a Customer Again The Go Giver TCCIRL Linda Perry Lianna Patch Abbey Woodcock The Codex Persona Ian Stanley Liz Painter Prerna Malik The Big Leap by Gay Hendrix Justin’s website The tattoo video Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob: Writing is hard, but writing with personality or perfectly capturing the personality of your client is even harder, but that’s what Justin Blackman does. Justin is our guest for the 216th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. He stopped by to share how his business has changed since the last time that we spoke in depth about the Headline Project way back on episode 59. Kira: Before we do that, this episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Underground, the membership for copywriters of all experience levels who want to invest in their businesses and grow. As a member, you get more than 60 hours of video training courses on marketing your business, improving your copywriting skills and fixing your mindset so you’re set up for success. Learn more at thecopywriterunderground.com. Rob: Okay. So let’s jump into our interview with Justin. Kira: Let’s kick this off. My first question I even wrote down was, dude, what have you been up to the last year? Question mark. Question mark. Question mark. Because I feel like you’ve taken off. And I don’t think it’s just me because we talk about you and we say good things in our circles, and I feel like you just have, I don’t know, like you just are doing the right things and it’s paying off and you’ve put in a lot of hard work too that is worth acknowledging. But it just seems like you’re doing really well. And so I am really excited to hear about what you’ve been doing, the changes you’ve made, and how it starting to pay off for you too. Justin: See, I think that’s the fun part because the last couple of months, it doesn’t seem like it’s been the hard work. It seems like the years leading up to this have been the hard work. And now, when everything shut down and I was like, “I need to figure out what to do.” I said, “You know what? Now I can have a little bit more fun.” And that’s when I embraced the fact that there weren’t a lot of people talking about just the silly things that I was talking about and writing with the style and the weird techniques and things that I do, because there really was a structure behind that. And I just wrote an email saying, “You know what? I’m going to keep it light.” And I made it fun. And then at the end of the email, I broke down exactly what I had done above it. And people wrote back to like, “Yes, more of this. I had no idea that there was actually a science behind this. Tell me about this process.” And then I started talking more about that and just having fun, literally not knowing what to do, not feeling comfor

What does it take to build and maintain a great community? We’re not sure we’ve got the answers, but we thought we should talk about it with The Copywriter Club’s Community Manager, Brandon Burton. For the past year, Brandon’s had an insider’s view of everything that happens in our free Facebook group as well as our private (paid community) Copywriter Underground group. Brandon’s influence in both groups has made these communities better. Here’s a bit about what we talked about… • why he left a comfortable sales position to become a copywriter • how he leveraged a multi-month parental leave to start his own business • the blog he launched that turned into his first community • what it takes to be a good sales person—and how to sell ourselves • why he is re-branding his business (and the process he’s using to do it) • the mistakes introverts are making in their businesses • what he did early on to get his foot in the door and find clients • what Brandon struggles with in his business • Rob and Kira’s thoughts on being introverted and getting out there • what he does as the community manager of The Copywriter Club • the ingredients that make a strong community • what you can learn in the right community—even if you’ve got a lot of experience • where the opportunities in social media are right now • the scary thing Kira’s doing outside of business right now • the future of copywriting as Brandon sees it This is a solid episode you won’t want to miss. To hear it, click the play button below. Or scroll down for a full transcript. Don’t forget to subscribe on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Club FB Group Brandon’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Transcript is underway…    

Building a successful business isn’t easy… but it should be simple. That is, you don’t need to do “all the things” in order to make a living. In fact, a minimal approach may help you grow in ways you don’t expect. Our guest for the 214th episode of The Copywriter Club is marketing minimalist Ellen Yin. She shared her formula for running a simple, but profitable business and a whole lot more. Here’s a bit of what we covered: • how Ellen became a marketing minimalist • the basic systems you must have in order to succeed • the purpose behind your social media use • the problem with adopting someone else’s marketing strategy • her simple marketing system that keeps her sales system going • how she takes prospects through her sales process, step by step • how she maintains a 70% close rate on six month contracts • the differences between marketing services and products • the mistakes you might be making using hashtags on instagram • short term vs. long term marketing efforts and why you need both • having help to support your “lazy” marketing efforts • how to borrow someone else’s audience and connect authentically • when to build your own audience and when to borrow • the state of the union on Instagram—what’s working and not • the basics of marketing on instagram—you don’t have to do all the things • striking the right balance between products and services • the steps to take to reach a big monthly income number like $10K • the “hidden funnel” that takes less work for getting/retaining clients • why she shared her quarterly income with her audience • how she finds the gold in bad investments in courses and coaches • batching and the impact it has on her days • the options for investing… mindset, skillset or network • Rob and Kira’s “one thing” that has helped them in their businesses This is a good one—especially if you look around at all the things other copywriters do and think, “how are they getting it all done?” To hear it, click the play button below. Or to read what Ellen shared, scroll down for a full transcript. And of course, you should subscribe and leave a review if you enjoy this interview. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Ellen’s Podcast Hashtag Hacks Hira Usama The One Thing by Gary Keller Linda Perry Ellen’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Transcript is underway…    

Among the copywriters we’ve had the pleasure to meet, there are a lot of former teachers who have gone from helping students learn history, math, and English and now help teach customers about products and services that meet their needs. Our guest for the 213th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Francis Nayan, a former teacher, now conversion copywriter specializing in emails. Francis told us about how he made the switch and what he’s doing now. Here’s what we talked about: • the first hit of dopamine that led him to believe he could make a living as a copywriter • what he did to grow his business after landing his first client • his wild-west approach to finding clients and why it didn’t work very well • the first big client that turned into an intense marketing training opportunity • why he looked forward 6 months to figure out what to do next • how he focused on better habits to build the business he wanted • the tangible benefits Francis has gotten from the investments in his biz • our first gigs—how we got started as copywriters • being intentional about the business you are building—and doing it early on • the habits Francis has adopted to get ahead—cold showers, 5 AM, lemon water • the kinds of email packages he works on and what he charges • what’s involved in creating email strategy • email deliverability—what you can do to make sure your emails make it to the inbox • dealing with the psychology of trimming your list • the best subject line for your emails <—this is great advice • whether you should do the tech and automation or just the copy • why he is anti-social media and what he does instead • podcasting and why it is a great way to get your ideas into the world This is a great interview you won’t want to miss. To hear it, hit the play button below. Or read the transcript just under that. Best of all, subscribe so you never miss an episode (and leave a review on iTunes while you’re at it). The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Wim Hof The Alter Ego Effect Mai-kee Tsang Gary V Francis’ website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Transcript is underway…  

Do you ever listen to what our podcast guests share and think, that’s not the kind of business I am building? Today’s guest for the 212th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Liz Painter. She has built a very “normal” copywriting business—one that probably looks a lot like your business. And there’s still a lot here that we can all learn from. Here’s what we asked her about: • her path from journalist to email strategist and copywriter • how copywriting and journalism are different and how to write better • Liz’s writing process and formulas—and how it’s different from others we’ve seen • the #1 thing she tries to accomplish in the email she writes • 3 different formulas for writing email sequences • how Liz finds her clients and what she does to get referrals from clients • what her business looks like today and how it all works day to day • how Liz has networked herself into several agency relationships • how she changes boundaries and processes when working with agencies • her LinkedIn strategy and how it immediately to a new client and more connections • the “comment first” strategy for finding connections • going all in on one social media platform and not stretching yourself too thin • Liz’s sales process—step by step—and how she makes sure to get a “yes” • what Liz does differently from other clients—she definitely listens more • the #1 lesson she learned from working with Copyhacker’s agency • what Liz struggles with in her business—why it took so long to find success • what she would do differently if she had to start over • a list of books she recommends for personal improvement • what she’s doing to save the bees with every project she works with This is a great interview with a copywriter who is doing a lot of things right. To hear it, click the button below. Or scroll down to read the transcript. Better still, subscribe with your favorite podcast app and never miss a show! The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Joanna Wiebe Amy Posner Better Proposals Philip Pullman novel Shinesty The Slight Edge by Jeff Olson Essentialism by Greg McKeon Personality Isn’t Permanent by Benjamin Hardy Life in Half a Second by Matthew Michalewicz The One Thing by Gary Keller The Big Leap by Gay Hendricks Liz’s website & Instagram Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob: You ever listen to the guests that we talk with on the podcast and think, “Their business is nothing like mine. What they’re doing is so different from other copywriters and I’m not really sure that I can learn anything from they’re saying.”? Well, our guest for the 212th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Liz Painter. She has a business like most copywriters and yet there are plenty of things that she’s doing that we can all learn from. Whether it’s her approach to LinkedIn, how she’s worked with agency clients, or her sales process, Liz is doing a lot of stuff very successfully. She stopped by to share all of the details in this excellent interview. Kira: We’ll share our discussion with Liz in a moment. But first this episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Think Tank, our private mastermind group for copywriters and marketers who want to challenge each other, create new revenue streams in their business, receive one on two coaching from the two of us, and ultimately grow to 200K or more. The think tank is now open for a few select new members. If you’re interested you can visit copywriterthinktank.com to learn more about this mastermind. Rob: So let’s get to our interview with Liz Painter. Kira: Liz, before we hit record we were just remembering our time with you in San Diego way back in March when we got to stroll down the street leisurely with you and hang out with you in person and it just seems so long ago now. So I’m excited to catch up with you and hear more about what you’ve been up to since we last saw you in March. So why don’t we kick off with your story, as we do, about how you ended up as an email strategist and copywriter. Liz: Yeah, cool. Yeah, that does seem like a long time ago that we were in San Diego. Back in the day when you could be outside with other people and hang out. So yeah, my journey started out as a journalist. Straight after university I studied journalism and then I got a job at a newspaper and it was a really good grounding in, not copywriting obviously, but writing because you’re in this newsroom and you’ve got the editor sat across from you. And if you write a really boring long intro to your story he’s going to shout across the newsroom and tell you in front of everyone that it needs work. So you have to get good at it really quickly. So that was a really good grounding in how to write concisely and quickly and in a way that catches the reader’s attention. And I did for a couple of years and w

Retainers or projects? That’s a question a lot of copywriters ask themselves when they determine what kind of business they want to build. But who says you have to choose? Our guest for the 211th episode of The Copywriter Club is Brian Speronello who’s “Barbell Strategy” takes advantage of both projects and retainers to make his business stronger and more resilient. We asked him about: • how Brian used a course to specialize and launch his copywriting business • the “try it before you buy it” approach to buying a course • a random bar encounter and the importance of taking first steps toward success • what Brian would have done differently if he had to do it all again • the tripod framework for deciding to go full-time as a freelancer • how Brian was able to test-drive working for himself while holding down a FT job • what it takes to make the leap into freelancing • what Brian’s business looks like today—it’s half of his barbell strategy • the limits of retainers and how Brian makes them work in his business • the “Landlord Retainer” model that makes sure you always get paid • the big fail Brian had when he agreed to work for royalties • the legal clause he includes in all agreements to protect himself today • our thoughts on Brian’s business model • his process for getting clients to refer additional clients to him • the investments he’s made in his business to “fill the holes” in his skillset • the part we played in getting Brian to get his program ready to launch • why he treats his own project as his fourth business client • what the Lindy Effect means for the future of copywriting This is a great interview, full of tips and lessons any copywriter can apply in their own business. To hear it, click the play button below. Or download this episode to your favorite podcast player. Better still, subscribe and never miss an episode. And if you prefer to read, scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Ramit Sethi’s Earn 1K Upwork Kim Schwalm Justin Goff Stefan Georgi Alvaro Barrios Brian’s website The Script Brian Talked about Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Transcript is underway…    

For the 210th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Rob and Kira are guest-less, which means it’s just us, talking about what’s going on in our lives and in the club. Here’s what we covered this week: what we’ve done to create a routine during the “shutdown” an update on the new podcast format—what we think about the extra work what else we’re working on as we update other parts of The Copywriter Club how we’re trying to make everything we do more helpful for copywriters what we’re doing differently with our email today trying to create a better separation between work and “life” how we spend our “CEO” time and what we’re doing differently what we’re reading right now why you should ask Kira to do something crazy right now how we’ve adjusted our mastermind to virtual—and the success we’ve seen To hear what we shared on this episode, click the play button below or download the episode to your favorite podcast app. There’s a full transcript below as well. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kirsty Fanton Liz Green Rosie Theresa Brandon Fina Perry Marshall The Copywriter Accelerator The Copywriter Think Tank Think Like a Monk by Jay Shetty The Big Leap by Gay Hendricks Ian Stanley Year of Yes by Shonda Rhimes Alchemy by Rory Sutherland Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob: Never a clever way to start when it’s just you and me. Kira: On a rainy Monday. It’s raining here. I feel like I just want to curl up in bed, but instead we’re going to start this podcast. And so, Rob, how are you? Rob: I am doing great. Before we get into how we’re actually doing, we should say, this is the 210th episode of the Copywriter Club Podcast, and if you’re wondering why there wasn’t a funny or story based intro, it’s because we don’t have a guest today. It’s just you and me. And we just want to give a little bit of an update and maybe a review of what’s been going on over the last couple of weeks. So then to answer your question, I’m doing great. How are you? Kira: I’m good. I was just thinking it would be fun to do our new commentary that we’ve added to the last 10 episodes. If you all haven’t noticed and add that to this episode, so we can add commentary on top of our commentary and just go really meta with it. Rob: It could get a little meta. It also might get annoying. This is where we break in to say that was actually totally wrong, what you just said, Rob. Kira: But we’re jumping in here. It’s been a while, I think, since we’ve really shared what we’ve been up to in our worlds and in the Copywriter Club and our copywriting businesses. So when you reflect back over the last few months, Rob, how are you dealing with world craziness, recession, all this stuff, COVID? How is your family doing? How are you doing? Rob: At this point end of summer, middle of the fall, we’re doing pretty good. I think we’ve figured out a routine. I was one of the lucky ones who, very early on, got the virus and I spent a whole week being kind of sick and very tired. Kira: I forgot about that. Rob: In fact, I was watching a video that we recorded back in April and I saw myself. I was like, oh my gosh, I look half dead. I look horrible. But yeah, we’ve gone through the school cancellations and summer, and then my kids are actually back in school at school. At least they’ve had one short break because the number of infections rose to whatever the level is that it hits and then they cancel school for a week or so. They’ve actually gone back now the second time and things are pretty good. Rob: We do better with routine at my house, especially when it goes around school. My kids are older. I have teenagers. And so there’s not a lot of supervision that needs to happen other than just sort of getting kids out of bed, which is a teenage challenge. I was that way, I think, when I was a kid and my kids are definitely that way, but yeah, I think we’ve adjusted our family life and are doing okay. How about you? You’ve got littler kids, so I’m guessing maybe some slightly different challenges. Kira: Yeah, I think the spring was rough for so many people. And so I agree having, I mean, structure and schedules help with kids at all ages, and adults. And so not having that in the spring just was quite difficult. But starting this school year, knowing what was ahead for us with online learning in DC public schools, so we were able to plan ahead and just figure it out and figure out what it was going to look like. And so it’s been going well for us with online learning. The first week was awful because we didn’t have any help or support, so I have experienced how hard it is when you don’t have support. And it’s impossible. I don’t know how parents are supposed to work and do online learn

When it comes to building a copywriting business, there are lots of options. You can sell services. You can sell products. You can even create a platform. How about all three? Our guest for the 209th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast is Eman Zabi and we asked her all about her unique approach to her business—one that includes all three of these approaches to earning money. We talked about… • an update on what she’s been doing the past 2+ years • some of the “insane” ideas she’s pursued since our last interview • why she made so many changes to her business • the mistakes she made as she started building her team of 13 • how one of her employees faked her father’s death to not get fired • what it takes to manage a larger team (including how she pays her writers) • what Eman’s copywriting projects look like today • her advice to copywriters who are thinking about growing a team • balancing business growth with mindset growth • why Eman decided to create physical products (and the production process) • the products Eman may create and offer in the future • the “mom” test to prove the product would work • embracing the hustle culture and seeing it for what it is • the software platform she’s created and why she leaned into this • the different approach Eman is taking with Terrain to set it apart • what’s wrong with courses and why the industry is still growing • the ingredients for a great course (and how Terrain helps make it better) • how we’ve changed our own courses to help members finish them • making sacrifices to accomplish more now • feeling the pressure to do everything and how Eman dealt with it • the reason Eman is willing to explore ideas most copywriters don’t think about • why she wouldn’t change if she could do it all over again—except one thing This is the second time we’ve interviewed Eman and if you heard the first episode, you’ll be amazed at how far Eman has come. To hear what she shared, click the play button below. Or scroll down for a full transcript. You can also subscribe anywhere great podcasts are found. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Eman’s First TCC Interview Jereshia Hawk Linda Perry Jordan Gill Eman’s Card Deck Terrain Eman’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Transcript is underway…    

Mindset is a topic we touch on quite a bit—because a healthy mindset is the foundation for everything we do well as copywriters and in life… and an unhealthy mindset? We’ll that won’t take you anywhere good. Our guest for the 208th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Ian Stanley. Ian doesn’t call himself a copywriter any more (we talk about why) but he knows a lot about copy and getting people to respond to his offers. We asked Ian about: • how he became a copywriter—a story of height supremacy, MLMs and Clickbank • what charging $5 an email taught him about templates and processes • some of the early investments he made and what he learned from them • hand copying sales letters—and what you might want to do instead • how to grow taller—Ian spills the “scientific” details of an offer he wrote for • what Ian’s done over the past couple of years to fix his broken mindset • his daily mindset practice, the two wolves he feeds and his tattoo • what you’re responsible for—and what you’re not • his ayahuasca experience—this one gets a little wild • Ian’s experience with the afterlife or whatever it was that he experienced • the gift of being human that the gods can’t experience • the program he created to uncover deeper mental and emotional blocks • building passive income and leveraging your work • the stupid stuff copywriters do to mess up projects and client relationships • the conversation that leads to agreements that pay royalties • Ian’s experiment with media and what he’s trying to accomplish • doing what 95% of competitors aren’t willing to do—to stand out Another episode you won’t want to miss. To hear it, you can scroll down and press the play button or download this episode to your favorite podcast player. You’ll also find a full transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Clickbank CopyHour The Talent Code Brent Charlton The Surrender Experiment The Untethered Soul The Untethered Soul at Work Confessions of a Persuasion Hitman Ian’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Transcript is underway…    

Getting things done—or getting MORE done—is a struggle for many copywriters including us. But systems and processes can help. Our guest for the 207th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast is systems expert, Jordan Gill. Jordan shared a ton of ideas for improving systems to help get things done and stop spending every minute on your business. It’s a message we definitely needed to hear—and maybe one you can relate to as well? Here’s what we talked about with Jordan… • how she came to “love” systems even though she despised them • the “launch-mageddon” that forced her to change her business for the better • how systems give you more control and free you from anxiety • whether people are born loving systems or whether they develop the skill over time • how to use batching to get more done faster • the role of discipline and creating structures that support your effort • the “impossible” process of letting go and how to actually do it • knowing your strengths and going all in on them • how a team can help support your systems (and the systems you need before you hire) • how she spends her time during a typical day and what her processes look like • how her team spends their time to support Jordan each week • the 4 Quadrants tool for determining what you should systemize or delegate • our (Kira and Rob’s) own trust issues and how they impact getting stuff done • how Jordan structures her VIP days—how she makes them work • the importance of the right name for your VIP days—and other mistakes we make • what Jordan does to balance work with real life • the subscription boxes Kira—and maybe Rob—will be checking out If you struggle at all with systems and processes or getting things done, you’ll want to get this episode into your earbuds as soon as possible. Scroll down and click the play button to listen, or download this episode to your favorite podcast player. There’s also a full transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Jordan’s website Melanie Duncan Deep Work by Cal Newport The Social Dilemma Strengths Finder Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Transcript is underway…

Facebook ads are one of those copywriting deliverables that neither of us focus on in our business. But we want to know more. So we invited copywriter and Facebook Ad Specialist Sarah Sal to share what she knows about the dark arts of Facebook ads. Here’s what we talked about: • how Sarah went from math and IT to writing Facebook ads • the connections between the disciplines of math and copywriting • the basics you need to know about the algorithm to write Facebook ads • what elements (tactics) you should include when writing an ad • the resources she looks for before Sarah starts to write an ad • why you might want to encourage comments on your FB ads • some of the changes that have some to FB ads in the last couple of years • how she looks for the different angles that might appeal to readers • changing ads versus changing strategy • what Sarah has seen is the most effective kind of ad on FB • the investments she’s made in herself to make her more effective • how she structures her packages and why she doesn’t sign on for the long term • the mistakes she’s made along the way • what she’s done to land big clients—and how you can do it too • Sarah’s experience in The Copywriter Underground • cats To hear what Sarah shared—or the extra thoughts Kira and Rob added—click the button below. Or subscribe using your favorite podcast app. For a full transcript, just scroll down. ….. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sarah’s TCC Blog Post Sarah’s website The Copywriter Accelerator Laura Belgray Perry Marshall Hootesuite AdEspresso Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Kira: Facebook ads are one of those copyrighting deliverables that neither Rob nor I do. We’ve run ads, but it’s not our specialty. That’s why we invited Sarah Sal to be our guest for the 206th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Sarah is one of our founding members of the Copywriter Underground, and one of the most active members in that group, which is why she was also our Mole of the Month, which is one of our most active and engaged members. And we call her Mole of the Month because most of our members, not all of them, refer to themselves as moles, as in the rodent. Sarah’s always entertaining in the group and talks frequently about her cats, and pizza, and entertains all of us, as you’ll see in this episode. And this conversation with Sarah gave us plenty to think about when it comes to running our ads on Facebook. Rob: We’ll get to our interview in just a second, but first we want to tell you that this episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Think Tank. That’s our mastermind group for copywriters, content writers, brand strategists, anyone who is ready for the training, coaching and support that they need to grow their business to, say, $200,000 or more. This is the only place where Kira and I provide one-on-two strategy sessions and coaching designed to help you achieve more than ever. If you’re interested in learning more about the Think Tank, drop us an email at [email protected] or [email protected], and we’ll tell you a little more. Kira: Let’s jump right into our interview with Sarah. Hey, Sarah. Let’s kick this off with your story. How did you end up as a Facebook ads strategist and copywriter? Sarah Sal: Curiosity, like a cat that is looking for trouble. Facebook marketing, copywriting have absolutely nothing to do with my background. I studied computer science in university and then I studied applied mathematics. And I really enjoyed research in math. I actually, for my thesis, wrote nearly 200 pages of math theorem, formula, proof, and so on. And at some point, I was. I’m going to do a PhD. I really enjoy math. It’s really like meditation for me. But then, I realized once I started that I love math, I love research in math, I didn’t like academia and the job opportunity, and asking for grant, and so on. So, I fall back on my IT and study computer science, and I worked in IT for a while. Then, over 10 years ago, it was when Facebook ads started working and everyone was talking about Facebook ads like it’s the future. So, I started learning about Facebook API. I even joined a few hackathon in Berlin, some of them organized by Facebook, and I won some prizes. Then, one thing lead to the other because you cannot talk about Facebook ads without marketing. So, I started taking course like Perry Marshall’s Facebook Marketing course. And before I know it, I’m here and I write a lot of article about Facebook marketing. So, that’s for Facebook marketing. Copywriting, people often tell me, “Hey, Sarah. We really love your copy. You’re a good copywriter.” And the reaction, “Am I really a copywriter?” This despite having articles, some of the best publication like Copyhackers, Copywriter&

One of the “options” for copywriters who don’t want to limit themselves to solely writing for clients is creating and promoting their own products. And for many of the copywriters who take this path, it’s very lucrative. Our guest for the 205th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Justin Goff. Justin has created his own offers and in this interview he talks about how you can do the same thing. We also talked about: • how a gambling debt he couldn’t pay led to his first online product • his over-the-top reaction to his first ever online sale of $149 • what he learned working in the gaming niche (as a student) that still helps him today • the one thing you need to do to be a better copywriter • how he landed his first few clients as he got into copywriting • the terrible-horrible-no-good-very-bad-week that led to his first real success • how he came up with the Big Idea that launched a 23 million dollar business • reverse engineering a product to find your own Big Ideas • the ins and outs of partnerships and how to make one work • what he’s done to overcome his own money mindset issues • the only thing that matters when it comes to dialing in a successful offer • Justin’s advice for raising their prices—what he’s seen that almost always works • why he believes in masterminds and what he gets from them • the “have to apply” email trick that keeps his readers engaged and reading • what he learned about knowing your audience from Tinder dates during quarantine • how he guards his time to get more done • why he bothers to dress up whenever he’s around potential partners and clients • the future of copywriting and how to make sure you’re set up to take advantage We say this a lot, but this is another don’t-miss episode. To hear it, click the button below. Or subscribe wherever podcasts are available. Scroll down for links and a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Patriot Greens Stefan Georgi No B.S. Wealth Attraction by Dan Kennedy Adam Bensman Sam Woods Justin’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob: There’s this thing that tends to happen for a lot of copywriters, not all of us, but many, where they ultimately decide that they don’t want to work with clients anymore. And at that point, they create their own products instead of helping other people sell their products. It sounds easy, right? But if it were easy, everyone would be doing it. Today’s guest, on the 205th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast, is Justin Goff. Just after the worst week of his life, Justin created his first product and earned a little over 100,000 dollars in three months, and then he did it again, earning millions. If that sounds like something that you’d like to do in your own business, then this episode is for you. Kira: We’ll share Justin’s story in just a minute but first, this episode is brought to you by the Copywriter Underground, a private membership and community designed to help you hit your business growth goals faster, whether your goal is hitting 10K a month or launching a new service or product, or even just finding your first few clients, the resources in Underground can help with accountability, support, coaching, and a path to help you get out of your own way and build momentum in your business. Find out more at thecopywriterunderground.com. Rob: There are a lot of ways to succeed as a copywriter, working directly with clients is one and creating your own products is another. Let’s jump into our interview with Justin and hear how he has used copywriting to create his million-dollar business. Justin Goff: I initially got into kind of making websites when I was in college, as the result of I had a $1,200 gambling debt when I was in college, I was probably 20 at the time. And so I was a really good sports better in college. I’d bet on college football games and college basketball games. I would make good money doing it. And then like a lot of kids, my age, I got really cocky and thought I was better than I was. And ended up betting a lot more money than I had. And one weekend, I basically had the weekend from hell where I lost like seven or eight of the games I’d bet on. I basically, went from being up $5,000 on this season to down $1,200. And this guy who I bet through, it was this big bookie who was like six foot eight named Gabe who weighed like 280 pounds and Gabe wanted his money two days later and I did not have that kind of money, so. Kira: It sounds like a movie. Justin Goff: It’s like Rounders part two. So yeah, I owed this guy a bunch of money and I’m trying to figure out how I’m going to pay him. And I had this bright idea that I could make a website and sell my sports picks. I knew nothing about making a website, knew nothing about selling stuff, but I’d seen other people doing it online. I’m li

Too many copywriters have a limiting belief around how much they can charge for their services, so our guest for the 204th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Jereshia Hawk, a high-ticket sales coach who shared how we can overcome that mindset issue. But that’s not all we talked about. We also covered… • how she became known for helping clients increase high-ticket sales • how her “engineering” approach shifts her thinking about products, problems and failure • overcoming objections—after the sale • why she carves out an hour on Monday’s for “superthinking” • her thoughts on building a team (and our role as an “employee” of your company) • what a personal performance review should look like (questions you can ask) • the zero sum budget approach to goal setting • how copywriters can overcome the idea that they can’t make a lot of money • the first steps toward building a high-ticket offer (like as much as $40K or more) • the simplicity rule that can instantly help you sell more • the POP method that helps you synthesize your offer and audience • her “champagne closer method” that completely changes a sales call • rethinking the free content you provide and what it has to do • the one metric everyone with a business needs to know <— this is critical • how she leverages one piece of content to show up everywhere • a step-by-step breakdown of the Jereshia’s sales call process • the mid-call check-in/pattern interrupt and why you steal this idea • the “hidden” mindset shift that changed Jereshia’s path into the online world • why your success isn’t reflected in your latest success or failure This is a great discussion you won’t want to miss. Be sure to do what Jereshia suggests at the end of the podcast and share your “one thing” on Instagram, Twitter, or elsewhere in social media. To listen, click the button below or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Jereshia’s question list: • What expectations would I have of the CEO? • How would I measure the performance and success of the CEO? • Am I living up to those expectations now? How so? Why or why not? • Would I hire myself again? Why or why not? • What uncomfortable decision am I putting off right now that is preventing me from moving forward? Copywriter Think Tank Brook Castillo The Road Less Stupid Shape Up Perry Marshall’s Renaissance Time Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Kira: Selling a product or service for $2,000 or even $10,000 takes a different approach, even a different skillset than selling something for $47 or maybe $500. Your high-end prospects have different needs, different problems, different beliefs, possibly even a different outlook on life. So naturally, reaching those prospects takes a very different approach. Today, on the 204th of The Copywriter Club podcast, we’re speaking with high ticket sales coach, Jereshia Hawk. Jereshia started her career as an engineer, not an online business coach, so her entire approach to systems and processes and sales is different from anyone else we’ve spoken with on the podcast. Rob: We’ll jump in to our interview with Jereshia in a moment, but first, we need to tell you that this episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Think Tank, our high level mastermind for copywriters, content writers and brand strategists who want to grow their business to the $200,000 mark. This is also where Kira and I both provide our one-on-two strategy sessions and coaching. It is designed to help you achieve more than ever. If you’re interested in learning more about The Copywriter Think Tank, drop us an email at [email protected], or [email protected]. Kira: Jereshia shared so many great ideas in this interview. Both Rob and I were texting each other during the entire interview with the different ideas that we could test in our own businesses, and we learned not just about selling, but also about designing client experiences so you can deliver the results your clients need and even processes for thinking differently about your business. Let’s jump in to our interview with Jereshia as she tells us about how she became a sales coach. All right, Jereshia, welcome. We want to kick this off with your story. How did you end up as a high ticket sales coach? Jereshia Hawk: Well, I kind of stumbled my way here. I was an engineer by trade before even knowing this whole online world existed. And I started doing some of my videos, started getting into coaching, just people asking me to give advice or insight on how I was able to navigate my corporate career and how I was able to position myself for upward mobility opportunities in a nontraditional way or in a way that just wasn’t the same beat and path of how you’re supposed to excel in corporate. And one thing I started recognizing during my coaching calls at the very, very beginning, when I wa

How do you attract clients to your business? That’s one of the subjects we covered with Jenn Robbins, the guest for the 203rd episode of The Copywriter Club podcast. Jenn is an expert on funnel strategy and shared the three types of funnels every business owner should have—not right away, but eventually, if you’re going to grow. But that’s not all we covered, here’s a partial list of what we asked Jenn… • going from 80 hour weeks in accounting to blogger to copywriter • why freelancers often fail before things work the second time around • feeling like a fraud and what they says about you • overcoming the imposter complex—a recurring theme on the podcast • how Jenn has mixed services with other offers in her business • making a retainer work—really work—for 9 years • Jenn’s process for making VIP days work—and her check in “trick” worth stealing • the 3 basic funnels every business needs • what she does to make sure her funnels engage her prospects • her rates—what she charges her clients for the work she does • the list building challenge she’s sharing with her audience • the stuff she struggles with in her business • the biggest changes she’s made to grow her business • how collaboration has changed Jenn’s mindset as her business has grown • what she does when things don’t get done as planned • what we’re really doing as copywriters—it’s not writing words • what to look for in a course or mastermind before you join Jenn is doing so many things right in her business, you’ll definitely want to hear what she shared about how to do it. To listen, click the button below. Or subscribe on iTunes or Stitcher. And coming soon to Spotify (hopefully). Prefer to read? Scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Tanya Geisler Sage Polaris Joanna Wiebe TCCIRL Tarzan Kay JennRobbins.com WTFchallenge.com Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Transcript is underway…

What kind of a business are you building? The guest for episode 202 of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Amy Posner. Amy’s the first person to be interviewed on the podcast three times—and no wonder—she’s got a lot to share. Amy’s currently rethinking the programs and services she offers her clients and we thought it might be worth talking to her about the process. We talked about all of the following: • the agonizing journey she’s been on as she’s changing her own business model • why the process has been so painful and pulling back on doing too much • the three questions she’s used to figure out what to do next • overcoming the desire to hide behind other brands • the new products and services she’s working on creating as she pivots • the missing career path for freelance copywriters (and how to find it) • what it takes to be a great copywriter—we all take a stab at answering this • the process of getting perspective on your own business • the questions to ask as you think about niching • what to add to your proposals so clients want to say “yes” • 3 questions to ask before you decide to raise your rates • why having someone copy chief your writing makes you better • how to up your client-finding game to land dream and anchor clients • a strategy for pricing your work to capture the value you create • some of the benefits that come from acting like a trusted partner • what keeps Amy engaged and growing • the third mind and how to get it in your business This conversation with Amy is perfect if you’re thinking about a pivot or change in your business. To hear her advice, click the button below. Or subscribe on iTunes or Stitcher. And coming soon to Spotify (hopefully). Prefer to read? Scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Joanna Wiebe Kirsty Fanton Amy’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Transcript is underway…

He’s one of the few copywriters who truly doesn’t need an introduction—Parris Lampropoulos is our guest for the 201st episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Parris spoke at both of our TCCIRL events in New York City—and it was a discussion at our event that led to this interview. rather than interview Parris about his life, we talked to him about his mentors and what he learned from them. Here’s a sample of what we covered: • his advice to “newbie” copywriters about who to learn from • how a fist through a window led to a job as a real estate sales manager • the “gun to the head” trick for making sure prospects want to get your marketing • why you need to make theater part of everything you write • Parris’ copywriting reading list—and why you should read each book 3X • what he looks for when he’s doing research—his I didn’t know that list • the mentor who was a former marine with a vulnerable side • the way most people listen—and how to do it right for better writing • taking notes on index cards to easily assemble and re-order your copy • looking for hidden benefits—hot buttons—to share in your copy • the best—most heartfelt—gifts we’ve ever received from anyone • the baptism by fire Parris got when he started writing for Mark Ford • the criticism sandwich that Mark Ford used to get Parris to write better • the copywriting lesson Parris learned from watching Joel Silver thrillers • why Parris prowls the stage like a predator when he speaks • the comparison technique Parris used reading Clayton Makepeace’s copy • the “you’re doing X anyway, why not get Y” technique that makes you tingle • the people he spends time with and those he runs “like hell” away from • how he uses the lessons he learned when he mentors is own copy cubs • the 3 things you need as a copywriter to make sure you succeed • the “Bruce Springsteen” process that guarantees you get a good idea As we mentioned in the intro, Parris may be the best copywriter working today. You do not want to miss this episode—even though it’s quite a bit longer than usual. To hear it, click the button below. Or subscribe where better podcasts are shared. Or scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: TCCIRL The Copywriter Underground Gary Halbert How to Make Maximum Money in Minimum Time The Amazing Direct Mail Secret from a Desperate Nerd in Ohio Influence by Robert Cialdini Gary Bencivenga Trust Me I’m Lying by Ryan Holiday My Life in Advertising by Claude Hopkins Scientific Advertising by Claude Hopkins John Carlton Made to Stick by Chip and Dan Heath Ted Nicolas Agora Bill Bonner Mark Ford Gene Schwartz Joel Silver Bo Eason Clayton Makepeace How to Write a Good Advertisement by Victor Schwab Dan Kennedy Jay Abraham Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Accelerator Intro Outro   Full Transcript: Transcript is underway…  

It’s time to celebrate… we’ve reached episode 200 of The Copywriter Club Podcast. This episode marks a tweak to our format and an update to the music we use. And to help us celebrate the changes—and our anniversary—we invited copywriter and marketing consultant Mike Kim to share his story and what he’s learned over the last several years of his career. Here’s a recap of what we covered: • how he went from marketer to blogger to copywriter • the importance of professional-grade production—spoiler: it’s not • the #1 thing you need in your content to get traction • simplifiers vs. multipliers (and where Mike, Rob and Kira fit in) • what he did to find his first clients and what he did next • the present-negative/future positive reason why he left a high-paying CMO role • the impact copywriting had on sales (when he was a CMO) • what Mike would do differently if he had to start over • his personal “code” for investing in coaching, courses and contractors • the big risks Mike has taken throughout his career (and the results) • why confidence is a sucker’s game and what you need instead • Mike’s “made it” moment where he realized things would be fine • the role mindset has played in his success—particularly his thoughts about money • Mike’s advice for raising your prices today—he calls it scope-creep insurance • his experience at TCCIRL as a speaker and attendee • the one thing he attributes his success to—this might not surprise you • his prediction for what will happen in the marketing world in the future Mike is a phenomenal copywriter (and human) and this interview is one you won’t want to miss. To hear it, click the button below. Or subscribe on iTunes or Stitcher… and soon on Spotify. And if you prefer reading, scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Accelerator Michael Hyatt AWAI Jeff Walker Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill The Big Leap by Gay Hendricks Business Brilliant by Lewis Schiff Mike’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Intro Outro Full transcript: Kira: What does it take to stand out like a snow lynx in a bowling alley and get noticed in today’s crowded marketplace. Okay, assuming you’re already a good writer and you can serve your clients well, which we can assume because you’re listening to this show, how do you actually get people to see that you’re extraordinary or extra, extraordinary? If you want it to be extraordinary, you can’t do the things ordinary people do. We know this. So you need to take the type of risks others refuse to take. You need to think and act differently from everyone else. Today on the 200th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, which we’re celebrating with lots of Coke Zero, barbecue chips, and peanut butter cheesecake. Rob: So good. Kira: We’re speaking with one of my D.C. neighbors and new friends, Mike Kim. Mike is much more than a copywriter. He’s a former CMO and current podcaster, coach, public speaker, and brand strategist. But maybe, most important of all, Mike is the kind of person who takes the type of risks that can launch an extraordinary career. Rob: We’ll get to all of that in a moment. But first we need to tell you that this episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Accelerator. The Accelerator is a 16-week business growth program designed to help copywriters figure out not only what makes them extraordinary, but also how to be the kind of business or how to run the kind of business that can scale and attract the right clients. This isn’t a course, something that you buy and forget in your downloads folder. It’s a program that you work through with other students as you master your business mindset, your X factor, your signature package as you price and create processes, work on client management, even branding and getting in front of the right clients. If you’re ready to stop dabbling and get serious about building a copywriting business that’s set up to grow, go to thecopywriteraccelerator.com for more details. Kira: I first connected with Mike shockingly on a podcast. After five minutes of prepping for my big interview with Mike Kim, I knew we’d be buds. We both lived in D.C. We both played basketball back in the day, and we’re both kind of tall. So obviously, a perfect recipe for friendship. So Mike and I hit it off, and I invited him to attend TCC In Real Life in San Diego. He took me up on the offer and flew out to the West Coast for the event, and I’m really glad I invited him because we didn’t see what was about to happen next. Rob: Even though he only showed up as a guest, Mike ended up being the first speaker at TCC IRL, which we’ve started calling the last event held in America. As coronavirus started spreading across the country, a few of our speakers canceled during the week prior to the event, but we w

This episode is completely different from anything we’ve done before. If you’re here for copywriting and business tips, you might want to skip this one. But, if you want to get a sense of the breadth of musical talent in The Copywriter Club, tune in, because this one is fun. When we announced we were updating the podcast for episode 200 (coming next week), we put out a call for the musicians in our group to let us know what they think the new intro should sound like. We’ve collected the submissions to share with you. What do you think? Did we make the right choice? The copywriters/musicians mentioned in this episode: Mario Bourzac / The Protected Left Jeff Herman / Mind Rock Robin Burke Neil Campbell Paul Hanna/Chad Reisliger Paola / Texxex Daniel Lamb Bill Kernodle Robin Burke Rachael Pilcher Alex Moon Steven Scott Jessica Marshall David Muntner Paul Conners Andre Johnson Addison Rice/The Love Sprockets I’m not sure if we’ve smiled more during a podcast than we did as we put this episode together. Maybe we should do more like this? To hear what these amazing copywriters/musicians had to share, click the play button below. Or subscribe to the podcast on Stitcher or iTunes and never miss another episode.   Other stuff you should check out: The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Because this episode is mostly music, there is no transcript. Please listen by clicking the link above.

Copywriter Allea Grummert is our guest for episode 199 of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Wait… are we really about to cross the 200 episode frontier? Yep, and Allea is the perfect guest to wrap up the last 100 episodes before we make a few changes to the format. We talked to Allea about her processes, her switch from blogging to copywriting, and how she’s made so much progress in the past year. Here’s the breakdown of what we covered: • the long road from personal finance blogger to copywriter • her best personal finance ideas for copywriters • why she waited so long to call herself a copywriter • how she finds clients today (a lot of them come from conferences) • the take-aways from Allea’s work as an implementer • her process for working with clients—the whole thing—start to finish • what she charges for her audits (and what makes them valuable) • the differences between the packages she offers to clients • how she structures the email sequences she writes • how she segments lists for her clients to be most effective • the CEO check-in and how it helps her grow her business • the hard stuff she’s dealt with as she’s grown • the things and people she’s invested in to take her business to the next level • her advice to “writers” who aren’t yet ready to call themselves “copywriters” • the advice from a friend that caused a panic attack • the mindset shifts she’s made over the past year to move forward • getting paid in advance for work that doesn’t start for a month or more • working with a VA and how to do it so the relationship works • her advice for list building and creating content for your list • her experience at TCCIRL in 2019 and 2020   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Notion Val Geisler TCCIRL Allea’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Kira: This episode is brought to you by the Copywriter Underground, the place to find more than 20 templates, dozens of presentations on topics like copywriting and marketing your business, a community of successful writers who share ideas and leads, and the Copywriter Club newsletter mailed directly to your home every month. Learn more at thecopywriterunderground.com. Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at the Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode 199 as we chat with copywriter, Allea Grummert about email and why it’s such a powerful platform, which email sequences are most important and what they need to accomplish, what she’s done to invest in herself and grow her business, and her five-step framework for writing a welcome sequence. Kira: Welcome, Allea. Allea: Hello, thanks welcome to you. Kira: Yeah. Allea: Welcome to my living room. Kira: Great to have you here, and let’s kick this off with your story. How did you end up as a copywriter? Allea: So, I started as a blogger. I was a personal finance blogger, and that’s what everyone does on a Memorial Day weekend. Yeah, it was just a hobby of mine, and I also have a degree in advertising and public relations so blogging came for me as like a, I called it my digital playground, so I could learn and play. And not just about copywriting. In fact, I didn’t call myself a copywriter until this January, but I learned about SEO and content marketing and how online businesses work. So over time though, people would come to me with questions about email marketing, and it was one of those things where it came easy to me and it didn’t for others and became a service to them for them to have me do it versus them doing it themselves. Rob: Before we get into article writing, blogging, or even copywriting, I’ve got to ask, what are your best personal finance tips? What should we be doing as copywriters to earn or save more money? Allea: Well, I would always say create a budget. So I’ve been using mint.com since 2010. So 10 years now. It’s a free service just to track all of your expenses. So what I love about it is it connects all of your bank accounts, and so I don’t even check my individual statements or bank accounts. I’m only in Mint when I want to see where my money is, and I get in there probably like three times a week. So that’s a big one. And then I would say set up moving money to savings as its own budget line item. So don’t wait to save just with what’s leftover, build that into your budget. Rob: So what about the easy stuff? The secret weapon. Kira: I was going to say, Rob knows I don’t do budgeting. So these are already great tips for me. Thank you. Allea: Yeah, absolutely. Anytime. I love talking about budgeting. Kira: All right. So let’s have

Copywriter and Creative Director Sam Pollen is our guest for the 198th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Sam works in-house at an agency focused entirely on copy—there are no designers—which might be a dream for a lot of copywriters. We asked Sam about the differences between the freelance world and the work his team does. Here’s an idea of what we covered during the interview: • how Sam went from zoology student to copywriter and creative director • why Sam prefers to work in-house and leaves the freelancing to others • how he works with other writers in his role as a CD • the creative process at agencies and how everyone works together • how they work with designers and hand off copy to the design team • this skills and training a copywriter might need to be a creative director • Sam’s writing process and how he generates ideas for each assignment • asking “stupid questions” to truly understand the products we sell • how asking the questions that aren’t in the brief leads to a big idea • what’s involved in the process of naming • how Sam and his agency present work to their clients • the challenges of working on brand voice and brand guides • writing luxury copy and the different approaches to a variety of products • why he wrote a book about a boy with anorexia Sam’s story and advice are worth a listen. To hear what he told us, scroll down and click the play button. Or read a transcript a little farther down the page. And if you never want to miss an episode subscribe to the podcast with your podcast app, then leave a review.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Reed Words Sam’s Twitter Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob: This episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Underground, the place to connect with hundreds of smart copywriters who share ideas and strategies to help you master marketing, mindset, and copywriting in your business. Learn more at thecopywriterunderground.com. Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join The Club for episode 198 as we chat with copywriter and creative director Sam Pollen about working at an agency that’s focused on great copy, what it takes to build a verbal identity, his biggest struggle as a creative and as a copywriter, and why he wrote a book about anorexia. Kira: Welcome, Sam. Rob: Hey, Sam. Sam Pollen: Thanks very much for having me, guys. Kira: Yeah, we’re excited to have you today and let’s just start this conversation with how you ended up as a creative director. What was that story? Sam Pollen: I think the story for me is probably the story similar for a lot of people in that position in that I just worked my way up, basically. I did a degree in natural sciences, so zoology and psychology, of all things, so not really related to what I do now at all. Then I worked in photography for a little bit, and then I worked in marketing and sort of fell into copywriting. So copywriting was not a deliberate choice for me, but it was something that I did some of in a marketing job and found out I was good at or good enough at. And then honed my skills and developed and found that that was something I found interesting and had some talent for, and so went from there. About five, six years ago, I had started working with my now boss, Mike Reed, who set up the agency I work for, it’s called Reed Words. I was initially hired just to write a sort of, he was starting to build an agency and then we have grown from that point. We have a team of writers and I’m the deputy creative director. I direct other people’s work as well as it’s still doing quite a bit of writing in my own. Writing that I’ve done as well as writing and directing from other people. Rob: Sam, most of the people that we talk to on the podcast are in the freelance world. And your career, seems to be a little bit different. Like you’ve worked in house and in agencies, primarily. Will you talk a little bit about what it takes to find a job as a copywriter in those kinds of environments? Sam Pollen: Yeah. The first thing I’d say is that, I have been in house all of my career basically, and the primary reason for that is because I have a huge amount of respect to people who are freelancers. I’m not sure I have the personality for it. And maybe I’m just a little bit scared of it. I worked in house in kind of marketing and just little general marketing role and then in a small company that was actually a design agency and then more and more specialized in writing. I think it brings a different set of challenges, right? There’s obviously the fin

Red hot copywriter Lorrie Morgan is our guest for the 197th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. As a stay-at-home mom she looked for a job that she could do from home. When a client asked for a 52-part auto responder, she knew she had to get serious about the craft. And she shared her decades of experience, as we asked about: • her journey from actor to copywriter to direct response guru • what she learned from her mentors (and who they are) • what it takes to “write fearlessly” … Lorrie breaks down what she did • the “pain-in-the-butt” writing exercise that makes you into a better writer • what she did to attract clients when she was just starting out • what she learned from moving 16 times before she graduated from high school • how she uses an alter-ego to go beyond her limitations and write copy • self-care and how Lorrie makes sure she feels good enough to write well • the biggest mistakes her copywriter clients make • the differences between writing for men and women • the “tarket” trick for connecting on a deeper emotional level in copy • the process of writing her book and why she wrote it • what’s on Rob’s vision board (and why Kira might need one) • why Lorrie wears a cowboy hat to events • what is was like to work on Baywatch—the truth about David Hasslehoff Lorrie shares some great advice to copywriters who want to grow. To hear what she said, scroll down and click the play button. Or scroll a bit farther for a transcript. And if you’re really serious about getting better as a copywriter, subscribe to the podcast (so you don’t miss an episode) and leave a review.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Baywatch Gary Halbert John Carlton Kevin Rogers Pauline Longdon Todd Herman Ignite Your Moxie Ali Brown Andre The Giant Lorrie’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Kira: This episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Underground, the place to find more than 20 templates, dozens of presentations and topics like copywriting, marketing, mindset. A community of successful writers who share ideas and leads and a copywriter club newsletter which is mailed directly to your home every single month. Learn more at thecopywriterunderground.com. Rob: What if you can hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then instill an idea or two to inspire your own work, that’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for Episode 197 as we chat with Red Hot copywriter Lorrie Morgan about the differences between writing for men and women, why she wrote her book, Ignite Your Moxie and what it’s about, what she’s done to create a profitable copywriting business, and how she landed a job working on the set of Baywatch. Welcome, Lorrie. Rob: Hey, Lorrie. Lorrie Morgan: Hey, good to be here, you guys. Kira: Great to have you here, Lorrie. So, let’s start. As much as I want to ask you everything about Baywatch right away, I feel like we should wait to hear about that. But let’s start with your story. How did you end up as a copywriter? Lorrie Morgan: Oh yes, everyone has a story. Nobody wants to be a copywriter when they’re a little girl, do they? So, I have a journalism degree. But I always wanted to be an actress. So, this is the rambling version, but I’ll try to get to the point real quick. So, I moved to California, which is where I live now, to be an actress. We’ll jump into the Baywatch a little bit later, too. But I’m a terrible actress, it turns out. I just really like the whole idea of it. So instead, I got married and I had children, which was wonderful. And then, I ended up going getting divorced and had to get a job. Oh, no. And the whole time I was working in corporate, I was dying to be home with my kids again and be a stay-at-home mom again. And I was like, “Wait a second, I can write. There’s no reason why I can’t write from home.” And this was in the 90s, right, when the internet was starting to get to be a thing. And my boss ended up retiring at my business and I just never got another job. I’m like, “I’m going to figure out how to be a writer from home.” And I focused on doing like press releases and stuff like that. And then, a client came to me, who wanted me to write 52 autoresponders and I’m like, “What the hell is an autoresponder?” And that was my introduction into copywriting. And he introduced me to Gary Halbert, the style, and Dan Kennedy. And I’m like, “Oh my God, where has this been my whole life. This is what I want to do.” This is in 1999. And at this time, there weren’t the dozens and hundreds of copywriting trainings that there are now. So, you really had to either work for an a

Copywriter and persuasion expert Adil Amarsi is the guest for the 196th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Adil is working on a book on Persuasion and recently changed the title he prefers from Copywriter to Creative Director because he does so much more than copy. We covered quite a bit of ground during our discussion, including: • how writing daily stories as a kid led to a gig as a copywriter (before he knew what copywriting was) • his process for attracting his first clients • what he did to learn copywriting and who he learned it from • the “first week’s earnings” deal that netted him six figures • what not to do when you get a windfall • going from £300 to $30,000 + 4%—the secret of Adil’s success • mental health issues and the impact on his business • how much time he spends writing versus ideation • breaking down what a $30K project looks like • the clause that Adil adds to his contract that you’ll definitely want to borrow • walking the line between manipulation and persuasion • one of the words you should never use in your copy • what it means to be a creative director and why he doesn’t call himself a copywriter • what it takes to create a great offer • the practical joke he played on one of his friends You won’t want to miss this one. Download it to your favorite podcast app or simple scroll down and press the play button. You’ll also find a full transcript and links below.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: John Carlton Gary Halbert PsychoCybernetics Jay Abraham The Irresistible Offer Adil’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob: This episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Underground, the place to connect with hundreds of smart copywriters who share ideas and strategies to help you master marketing, mindset and copywriting in your business. Learn more at thecopywriterunderground.com. Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 196 as we chat with copywriter, podcaster and alchemists of persuasion, Adil Amarsi, about telling better stories, what it takes to create a great offer, how to be more persuasive, and his approach to consulting with his clients on their marketing needs. Kira: Welcome, Adil. Adil: Hi. Thanks for having me, guys. Kira: Yeah, and just shout out before we jump into Brennan Hopkins, who introduced us, so thank you, Brennan for making the introduction. And let’s just kick this off with your story. How did you end up as a copywriter, consultant, podcaster, artists and we can go on and on, and on? Adil: Yeah. So first of all, thank you, Brennan, because he did make this happen. So my story’s kind of I used to think it was interesting until I actually sat down and wrote it out with a friend. So I moved from Africa, like East Africa to the UK when I was four years old. About a year into moving to the UK, in the mid-90s, my dad ended up having a herniated disk that affected his walking, so he was paralyzed from the waist down for about two years. And it’s important to know that I have an older sister and the 90s were basically known as Nickelodeon versus Cartoon Network. You can pretty much guess which side I sided with and which side she went with. I was Cartoon Network, she was Nickelodeon. I found that the best way I could watch cartoons was to sit down and watch whatever my dad was watching at the time. In the UK my dad really loved watching four shows, in particular. Two quite important. The other two, somewhat. So the first one was the news. My dad loved watching the news. I do not love watching the news. He did, but there was a lot that I picked up from there, especially about how presentation is done and essentially how to speak in a presentable manner. Very unconsciously, I picked up those habits. The second was a trigger show known as Fifteen to One. It was just like the weakest link but less competitive. It was like playing Trivial Pursuit with a real live audience of 15 people. My dad loved the show called Countdown, which is about words and numbers. And finally, his favorite show of all, for some strange reason, he loved watching the Home Shopping channel with Billy Mays. And he would watch it for two hours a day, six days a week. And this went on for like two years. So in the space of about three hours, or three and a half hours of television programming, me at the age of five to the time I was seven, when my brain is most susceptible to taking on this kind of information, it’s being bombarded with not only cartoons, high levels of creativity because I love to draw, but I’m also being bombarded with mathematics, ana

Growth marketer and event co-founder, Stef Grieser, is the guest for the 195th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira met Stef and Shine Bootcamp late last year and immediately knew that she had a lot to share with our audience. But we didn’t just talk about speaking. We covered a lot of ground—and went a little longer than usual. Here’s a taste of what we talked about: • Stef’s career path and how she came to co-found two big events • how she used meet-ups to “test drive” CTA Conference • how the first CTA Conference line up led her to focus on diverse voices at conferences • the mix of speakers and why up-and-comers are just as important as stars • what she did to turn herself into a conference speaker • the difference between “growth” marketer and “regular” marketer • how Stef scaled her team and community as she built CTA Conf • what makes a good speaker pitch and how to get accepted as a speaker • the cues that let conference organizers know you are a fit for them • what she did to connect with sponsors and what makes a good sponsor • the importance of being a subject matter expert • the other skills you need on stage… in addition to content • when you should reach out for help from a speaking coach • Stef’s thoughts on the importance of copywriting as a business skill • what Stef would like copywriters to do differently • how she’s developed her leadership skills and built a team • the stuff that hasn’t gone very well and how she fixed things • her advice to anyone who wants to do what she’s done • product founder fit and the importance of finding it • Shine Bootcamp—what it is and how to find out more If you’ve ever thought about getting on stage (or presenting workshops or webinars) as a way to build your authority, you won’t want to miss this episode. To hear it, click the play button below or scroll down for links and a full transcript. Or subscribe using your favorite podcast app.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Shine Bootcamp CTA Conf Oli Gardner Lianna Patch Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Kira: This episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Underground, the place to find more than 20 templates, dozens of presentations on topics like copywriting and marketing your business, a community of successful writers who share ideas and leads, and the Copywriter Club Newsletter mailed directly to your home every month. Learn more at TheCopywriterUnderground.com. Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at the Copywriter Club podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode 195 as we chat with marketing specialist and public speaker, Stef Grieser, about growth marketing and what copywriters need to know to help their clients grow, Shine Bootcamp and what you need to know to land a speaking gig, the lessons she’s learned after co-founding two big events, how she looks at and solves business problems, and her biggest career struggle. Kira: Welcome, Stef. Rob: Hey, Stef. Stef Grieser: Hi. Kira: Hello. It’s great to have you here. Last time I saw you was at Shine Bootcamp in Toronto last September, so it’s such a pleasure to have you here so we can dig into everything that you’re doing. Stef Grieser: I am so excited to be here and excited to dig in. Kira: All right. Why don’t we start with your story? How did you end up as a growth marketer, founder of Call-to-Action Conference and co-founder of Shine Bootcamp? How did you get into all of it? Stef Grieser: Yeah, that’s a really, really great question. I’ll go way back when I was graduating university, I had worked internships and industries that were established for decades and really, really big companies, like I’m talking some of the biggest in the world, like Exxon Mobil. I 180’d, not 360’d because that would mean I was right back where I started, but no. I 180’d and I decided that I really just wanted to get on the ground floor of a growing startup. That landed me at a little software company at the time called Unbounce and I started there as their second marketer who was really primarily in charge of our community and our blog. That looked at a bunch of things that essentially working with guest bloggers, and then also cultivating community over social media, but for the most part, it was very digital. Like, software is very digital and it was a very digital play. I remember about one year in, and I remember this so vividly, I went out to lunch. It was this tiny Lebanese restaurant. It was in a basement with our CEO, Rick. We sat there and I pitched him on the idea of taking this community and this content that we cultivated and turning it in

Copywriter Christina Torres is our guest for the 194th guest on The Copywriter Club Podcast. Christina is a member of The Underground and The Copywriter Think Tank so we’ve seen some of the changes she’s made to her business recently. We talked to Christina about her business and the kinds of things she does as a pocket CMO. Here’s most what we covered… • her story—how she became a copywriter by mistake • how she got permission to do the thing she really wanted to do • what she does in her role as a CMO in your pocket • how she’s worked with copywriters as a CMO to help them grow • some examples of her work and how she helps people get out of their own way • how she attracts and connects with her clients • why she took the time to figure out what she doesn’t like to do • how she found clients in the the programs she has joined • the importance of taking a stand in her business and making change • the idea of a culture and equity audit for the work she does • how she balances all the things competing for her time • the catalyst for the new program she’s launching • what an anti-copy course copy course would look like • launching even when there’s too much other stuff going on This is a good interview you won’t want to miss. To hear it, click the play button below or subscribe on iTunes or Stitcher. Or scroll down to read a full transcript and see links to what we talked about.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Marie Forleo Laura Belgray Samar Owais Matt Hall Rachel Rogers Christina’s website Christina’s insta Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob: This episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Underground, the place to connect with hundreds of smart copywriters who share ideas and strategies to help you master marketing, mindset and copywriting in your business. Learn more at TheCopywriterUnderground.com. Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 194 as we chat with copywriter and CMO in your pocket, Christina Torres, about how her business has evolved to include much more than copywriting, what she’s done to juggle working a job while pursuing a side hustle, how copywriters can speak up and create change, and what she’s done to figure out what comes next. Kira: Welcome, Christina. Christina Torres: Hey. I’m so excited. Ah, this is like the nerdiest, surreal thing that’s ever happened and I’m just pinching myself. I’m so excited to be with my copy uncle and my copy cousin. That’s what I call Kira. You’re not my copy dad. I feel like Rob is so much cooler. Rob: I’m a really cool dad, I got to say. I’m not cool at all, actually. Just ask my daughters. They remind me of that, seriously, every single day; how uncool I am. Kira: That’s their job. Their job is to remind you of that every day. I’m glad I’m the cousin and not the mom. I feel like I can barely mom. Christina Torres: We’re too close in age. Kira: I can barely mom, parent my own children. So, I’m happy to be the cousin. Christina Torres, we have had the pleasure of hanging out with you and working with you in The Underground. And then also, more recently, in The Think Tank over the last month. But we want to really start with your story and how you became a copywriter. And then, more recently, a Pocket CMO. Christina Torres: Yeah, sure. I think … I was just listening to your most recent podcast and I feel like everyone says this, but of course I became a copywriter by mistake. I feel like that’s so cliché but it’s kind of true. Not really. I became a copywriter by mistake in that I didn’t know what it was, but I knew I always wanted to be a Mad Men. I was, before it was cool and before people really were like, “Ooooh.” … Before there was Casper and before there was all these cool brands, I would definitely take out my Razr Motorola phone … That probably doesn’t age me too far back … But I would take pictures of all the cute and clever ads on the subway because I was just obsessed with language and comedy and just funny things. I was always taking pictures because they would just make me giggle. And we run a lot of ads in the New York City subway. It started there, but I didn’t know what copywriting was. I was like … I knew I was wanted to be in advertising, but that’s not what I did. I ended up in finance because it’s what my mom did. My mom was in public relations and in investor relations. And I went to school for business management. So, now I’m using my degree kind

Copywriter Brittany McBean is our guest for the 193rd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We wanted to talk to Brittany after we heard about the success she had when she completed the “Find a Client in 3 Weeks or Less” Challenge we offered in The Copywriter Underground this past April. In addition to that, Brittany shared her path to copywriting and the nuts-and-bolts of creating a paid workshop for your list. Here’s what we covered in this interview: • going from acting in musical theater to network marketing to copywriter • the on-the-job training she gave herself when she landed her first project • what she learned as a signer, dancer and actor that makes her a better copywriter • how she approaches marketing for herself so it doesn’t feel spammy • her advice for people who are using Facebook to go live with video • Brittany’s experience with the Find a Client Challenge in The Copywriter Underground • the three different kinds of clients you need in your business • what surprised her most about the challenge… and why she did it anyway • how you can replicate the momentum Brittany built during the challenge • what it takes to create and run a masterclass and the supporting materials • the financial results she got by finishing the Challenge and how she used the money • what she’s going to do next with her workshops and business • her adoption journey and how she worked through the difficulties of the process • her struggle with anxiety and working and the results of dealing with it • her approach to talking about hard things and helping our clients do it too • what she’s excited about doing next in her business This is a great discussion about how much you can create in a short time—and a lot more. To hear what Brittany had to share, scroll down and click the play button. Or scroll a little farther to read a full transcript. Better yet, subscribe on your favorite podcast app and never miss an episode.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Brenda McGowan The Project Plan Trello Board Sara Heselin Woods Brittany’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Kira: This episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Underground, the place to find more than 20 templates, dozens of presentations on topics like copywriting and marketing your business, a community of successful writers who share ideas and leads, and The Copywriter Club newsletter mailed directly to your home every month. Learn more at thecopywriterunderground.com. Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode 193 as we chat with copywriter, Brittany McBean about why she became a copywriter, what her business looks like today, her experience with the find a client in three weeks challenge in The Copywriter Underground, and what she’s done recently to think bigger about her business and clients. Welcome Brittany. Rob: Hey Brittany. Brittany McBean: Hi, thanks. I just had some free time and thought I’d help you guys out and just … No, I’m just kidding. My palms are sweaty and I’m really honored and excited to be here. Rob: This is really good. Kira: Yeah. We’re so excited to talk to you. And this initially started around a challenge that we offered in The Underground in April. And it was how to book a client in three weeks challenge, although it had like a snazzier name and it was the first challenge we ever did in the underground. And it was quite intense because I don’t think I knew what I was doing when I was throwing out these challenges. And you were one of the few people, there were a couple who completed every single challenge that we threw out there, which is 12 in depth challenges. And you did all of them. And then you had a really great story too about the impact on your business. So I know we’re going to talk about that today and then a whole lot of other things like your success that you’ve had over the last year in your business. But let’s start with your story. How did you end up as a copywriter? Brittany McBean: Yeah. Sometimes I’m not even sure if we’re being honest. I hear there are two paths and one was incredibly nonlinear, and this was not their background, or they were in a marketing agency and they saw who made the most money and they went and did that. So I’m more of the nonlinear path. So, my degree is in musical theater. That’s what I went to school for. I always say that I have a degree in singing a high C and kicking my face. And I love that. That was my passion for a very long time. I acted professionally after that for about three year

Business coach and copywriter Ashley Gartland is our guest for the 192nd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. No surprise, when it comes to helping other writers build a solid business, she knows her stuff. So we asked Ashley about a whole range of things, including: • how she ended up as a writer and business coach • what she does in her business today and the problems she helps solve • what a “better not bigger” business looks like and how to create one • a few of the business models that help copywriters grow a better business • what Ashley does to help free up more time for clients • her “marketing audit” and what it involves for her clients • what copywriters starting out can do to build a “better not bigger” biz • what happens when people hit their goals and what comes next • growing a team and what you should think about as you scale and grow • how to grow a business WITHOUT a team • how Ashley deals with overwhelm and getting things done • the tools that Ashley uses to get things done • what her team looks like and how she spends her time today • the packages she offers to her clients • what you should do if you want to do more copy coaching • the mistakes Ashley sees copywriters making and holding them back • what she’s done to take her business to the next level • the pitch that got Ashley on our podcast and why it worked • the difference confidence makes in so many of her client’s businesses We also asked about the future of copywriting and what to do if you want a “bigger and better” business. This is a good one. To hear it all, the play button below. Or scroll down for a transcript. Better yet, subscribe and never miss an episode.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Ashley’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob: This episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Underground, the place to connect with hundreds of smart copywriters who share your ideas and strategies to help you master marketing, mindset and copywriting in your business. Learn more at thecopywriterunderground.com. Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work. That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 192 as we chat with business coach Ashley Gartland about creating a business that is better not bigger, what business challenges copywriters struggle with the most, her advice on managing time projects and overwhelm and the pitch she sent us that made us want to have her on the show. Kira: Welcome Ashley. Rob: Hi Ashley. Ashley: Hi guys. Thanks so much for having me. Kira: Yeah. Great to have you and I am excited to talk about the pitch that you sent us because it did grab my attention at least, and you kind of played the long game too as far as building a relationship on Instagram first and I just felt like it was very an elegant approach to pitching podcast. So we’ll talk about that, but first let’s start with your story. How did you end up as a writer turned business coach? Ashley: Yeah. So really I have to say that though the way I landed here and the way I got into business by myself in the first place, entrepreneurship, is because I had this really strong desire to have a career that served my life. And when I graduated from journalism school I didn’t see a lot of options out there that matched what I envisioned for my life, which was a lot of autonomy, a lot of choice in terms of how my days looked and also where I wanted to live in the country and those things. And so I decided that I would just give it a go and I would see straight out of college how to be a freelance writer and it went really well, and I came down to Portland, Oregon drove down here, started building a life here and business here and did that for about eight years. And at that point I felt like I had done a lot of the things. I had this big goal list, I checked a lot of those boxes off and I kind of didn’t know what was next and so that began a process of asking what was next and what I realized eventually after a lot of soul searching was that I was kind of already doing the thing that I loved, which was mentoring other business owners. And I just didn’t know that it was like a legitimate career path until I started to dig in a little bit deeper and once I realized that I realized I had a whole second chapter I could move into, where I still get to use a lot of my writing skills to be quite honest, but now I get to coach and mentor other business owners who want to build that better than big business, that business that serves their life. Rob: So tell us more about that. What does your business look like and what kinds of coaching do you do? What are the

Copywriter Kaitlyn Parker is our guest for the 191st episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We got to know Kaitlyn a bit better at this years IRL event where she took more than 35 pages of notes, recording the most important ideas and tactics that the speakers shared. We asked her why she did that as well as a lot of questions about how she’s grown her business. Here’s most of what we covered: • how she turned a social media gig with LuluLemon into her current role as a copywriter • what she does to make social media effective for her business • how often she posts on instagram (and the size of her audience) • how to make “copy” posts work on visual media like Instagram or Pinterest • whether hiring a photographer for social images is worth it or not… ROI? • how Kaitlyn comes up with the images for her brand • her process for helping clients develop and dial in their brands • the packages and deliverables she offers to her clients • how her prices have evolved as her business has grown • what her client relationships look like—retainers versus one-time projects • how clients find her… it’s not all from social media • the #1 thing she’s gotten from attending live events • her biggest take away from TCCIRL and the speaker who made the most difference in her biz • how she manages her time and projects (and the tools she uses) • what she thinks the future of copywriting looks like If you’ve ever struggled to effectively capture your brand on social media, you won’t want to miss this episode. To hear it, click the button below, or download it to your favorite podcast app. Readers scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: TCCIRL Sage Polaris Mike Kim Kaitlyn’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Kira: This episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Underground. The place to find more than 20 templates, dozens of presentations on topics like copywriting, and marketing your business. A community of successful writers, who share ideas and leads, and The Copywriter Club newsletter, mailed directly to your home every month. Learn more at thecopywriterunderground.com. Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts? Ask them about their success and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work, that’s what Kira and I do every week, at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode 191, as we chat with copywriter, Kaitlyn Parker about her career path, the importance of branding and social media in growing her business. Why she took 37 pages of notes at TCC in real life, and the process she uses to get crystal clear messaging for her clients. Kira: Welcome Kaitlyn. Rob: Hey Kaitlyn. Kaitlyn: Hey, I’m so happy to be here. Thank you. Kira: Yeah, we’re excited that you’re here. We met you at TCC in real life in San Diego. Kaitlyn: The timing of that was just wild. I don’t think any of us knew that it was going to turn into all of this. And here we are, barely have left our houses since then. Kira: Yeah. Who knew? Craziness. Okay, so Kaitlyn, let’s kick this off with your story. How did you end up as a copywriter? Kaitlyn: Yeah, I feel like most copywriters, it was kind of accidental. I always loved writing and had a personal blog for years. And then after college I was an English major and then post-college, I had an outside sales job. Did that for a bit, but it was in recruiting and I just didn’t love it. So I ended up actually working for Lululemon, and I was managing the social media, and marketing, and the community, divisions of the store as we were opening quite a few different stores in the area, and I really loved it. And people would be like, “Oh, that caption was so clever,” or “That was so good”. And I didn’t even really realize at the time that what I was doing was copywriting. And I later went through a master’s program in strategic communications and some of our textbooks and stuff like that were actually like Gary Vaynerchuk’s Jab, Jab, Right Hook, and books like that, that all of a sudden, it was this light bulb went off where I was like, “I could get paid to write and I could merge all of these multi-passionate interest of mine and work with brands.” So I really just kind of started pouring myself into the discipline of copywriting. And the first course that I found on it was actually one by digital marketer. And then I later enrolled in copy school and went through a rebrand and just kind of steamrolled since then. Rob: Can we, by talking about your social media experience. Because you have social media dialed in and it’s something that I struggle with. And I think it’s something that a lot of copywriters stru

Copywriter Per Andreasen interviews Rob and Kira for the 190th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Per kicks off the interview with the Intro in Danish… which will probably confuse a few listeners expecting to hear our regular intro… then we talked about what’s up with us and how the podcast will be changing in the near future. Here’s most of what we talked about: • what the intro sounds like in Danish… thanks to Per Andreasen • how to thrive in a crisis—Rob’s advice for surviving a recession • what has happened to our business since the virus became a “thing” • the Copywriter Roundtable… and why we don’t promote it • how The Copywriter Club evolved into what it is today • how The Copywriter Club is a bit like a cult • how we deal with imposter complex ourselves • when the biggest leaps in our business have happened • why we haven’t offered certifications for the training we provide • our biggest program failure and what we did instead • the changes we are making to the podcast in the future • where we think copywriting is going in the future • why some copywriters are busier than ever during the COVID crisis • good example of advertising in response to the economic crisis • what we are doing in our own businesses this year • when to expect the very first Copywriter Club event in Europe • a bit about Per’s business too If you’re interested in what’s going on in our businesses, and what’s next for The Copywriter Club, you’ll want to check out this episode. Scroll down to listen or for a full transcript. Or better yet, download it to your podcast player now.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Accelerator The Copywriter Think Tank The tattoo video Gin Walker Elaine Wellman Brian Kurtz The intro/outro competition details FB post Kim Krause Schwalm Per’s Website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Per Andreasen: [Speaking in Danish] Hvad nu hvis du kunne hænge ud med seriøst talentfulde copywritere og andre eksperter. Spørge dem om deres succeser og fiaskoer, deres processer og vaner for så at stjæle en idé eller to som kan inspirere dit eget arbejde? Det er hvad Rob og Kira gør hver eneste uge på…The Copywriter Club Podcast. Yes, this is still The Copywriter Club Podcast. You’re invited to join them for Episode 190 as former journalist and now the world’s strongest copywriter, Per Andreasen, lovingly grills them on this and that. Rob: Our Danish audience is going to go through the roof with this episode. So, for this episode of the podcast, we’ve invited our friend and someone who has participated in The Copywriter Accelerator, The Copywriter Think Tank, has been to all three TCC IRLs, and is the only copywriter that we know in Denmark, I think, to interview us for the podcast and that is, Per Andreasen, the strongest copywriter in the world. Kira: Yeah, 190, that’s pretty crazy. Per Andreasen: It’s amazing. So, the last time I saw you two guys was at your amazing real life event in San Diego, and you’ve already gone through all your takeaways before, so I want to talk about the crisis that made everything about the event feel even more special than your previous events. Especially, Rob, your talk was about how to thrive in a crisis, can you repeat some of that advice and how that has stayed true? Rob: I can definitely repeat a lot of the advice, it was kind of… I guess it was a timely talk. I wasn’t assuming that it was going to be quite as timely as it was, as I was preparing it. I kind of thought we might be due for a recession in the next year or two, maybe in six months but wasn’t thinking that it was going to come together the way that it quite did. And so, I just gave some tips for how to deal with working in a recession. And you can get all of those tips in the videos from the event that we have made available. But I guess, one or two of the main takeaways, and we’ve talked about them in a couple places, having an anchor client, this isn’t necessarily an ideal client or a client that you love, but a client who is going to consistently pay you money so that you don’t have to worry about the mortgage or keeping the lights on, or feeding your family. Because when you are dealing with that kind of stress, it changes the way that you’re able to approach your work and new clients, and you start operating from a place of fear rather than from your expertise and from your ability to create value for your clients. And so, that was one of the recommendations that I made. We talked a little bit about investing wisely. It seems a little counterintuitive sometimes when money gets tight to say that you should be investing, and we certainly wouldn’t recommend that people take on debt to invest in a coach or a program of some kind, but that if you need a skill or you need to

In the 189th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob talk with A-lister Carline Anglade Cole on how supporting her firefighter husband led to a career as a copywriter, what she learned from her mentor Clayton Makepeace, how she connects with her prospects and more. Here’s a bit of what we covered… • her ballsy approach to scoring a 2-hour interview for a marketing position • how she learned the craft of copywriting without courses or books • how doing a great job on a promotion got her fired (and 6 months of severance) • the WWCD question that helped her write a promotion that got a 5% response • what she’s done to go deeper with copy than most copywriters • her life as a 50 year old white man • what she learned from working with Clayton Makepeace • her approach to testing a lot emotions so the market comes to her • how her income went up every time Clayton criticized her writing • what it takes to write kick-butt copy that resonates with her audience • the “mom test” she uses to make sure she believes in the product • how she reworks her copy to make sure it’s as strong as possible • her kids—three of four of whom have worked as copywriters This episode should not be missed. To hear it, click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. Or add it to your podcast player now.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Clayton Makepeace Gary Bencivenga Kim Schwalm Marcella Allison Carline’s Website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Kira: This episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Underground. The place to find more than 20 templates, dozens of presentations on topics like copywriting, and marketing, and mindset. A community of successful writers, who share ideas and leads, and The Copywriter Club newsletter, which is mailed directly to your home every month. Learn more at thecopywriterunderground.com. Rob: If you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their success and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work, that’s what Kira and I do every week, at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode 189, as we chat with A list health copywriter, Carline Anglade-Cole, about working with and learning from her mentor, Clayton Makepeace. Her life as a 50 year-old white man, hiring her kids to write copy for her, connecting emotionally with the buyers she writes for and what it takes to write kick butt copy. Welcome, Carline. Rob: Hey, Carline. Carline: Hey guys, how are you? Rob: We’re doing good. Carline: I liked the intro, Kira. Kira: That was all Rob, Rob wrote that one. Carline: Oh, Rob, very nice, very nice. Kira: So we’re excited to have you back. We tried to record this, I don’t know, was it a year ago, more than a year ago now and I had major tech issues and so we didn’t know if this interview was ever going to happen, and I’m so glad that it will. So thanks, Carline for coming back. Carline: Thanks for inviting me. Kira: And let’s kick it off with your story. How did you end up as a copywriter? Carline: Definitely, it was not a life plan. I had no idea what copywriting was. I had gone to school and got my degree in communications and journalism, so I always knew I wanted to be in the writing field somehow, but didn’t quite know how. I just sort of stumbled across the whole copywriting thing when I got a job working at Phillips Publishing. At the time, I had a two and a half year-old and a one-year-old and I was just looking for a job that would complement my husband’s schedule. He was a firefighter and he worked shift work. So we had these kids and we wanted to be home with our kids ourselves. So I had to find some kind of a job that would allow me to have a flexibility of being off when he had to work. And then the days were shifts, so it would change. And I happened to stumble across an ad in the paper for a customer service job for a direct response company, called Phillips Publishing. The biggest draw to me with that ad, was just that flexible schedule. So I called and I interviewed and I got the job, working at customer service and that’s how I got into the whole direct response business. I had no idea how it worked, but here I was now answering phone calls and talking to customers and then I’m seeing these renewal letters going and I’m hearing about different aspects of direct mail. And I’m like, “Wow, this is interesting, but again, totally new to me.” And as I was working there, the company was very entrepreneurial, I mean, if you had an idea, didn’t matter where you worked, if you had an idea, you could submit an idea. And then if it was a good one, they’d give you credit for it and help make it happen. So I loved t

In the 188th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob talk with Gin Walker on how her experience as a stage actor influences her writing process, her REACH framework, the misunderstanding that turned her into a copywriter, and what she does to manage the competing interests in her life. Here’s the outline of what we covered during this interview: • the airplane discussion that “mistakenly” turned her into a copywriter • the podcast that helped her discover what copywriting is • the difference between copy editing and copywriting • how she landed her first few clients after she made her career switch • what she did to build on her initial success and grow her business • how attending TCCIRL changed her business • how being an actor has helped Gin as a copywriter • how she uses her R.E.A.C.H. framework as she works with clients • what she does to manage all the competing interests in her life • how her business has changed over the past year • what her business looks like today • the mindset issue she struggles with and how she deals with it • her experience as the closing speaker at TCCIRL Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Accelerator The Copywriter Think Tank The Copywriter Club In Real Life Joanna Wiebe Ry Schwartz Joel Klettke Hillary Weiss Tarzan Kay Rob Braddock Gin’s Website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob: This episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Underground, the place to be if you want to master marketing mindset and copywriting in your business and hit 10K a month without losing your mind. Learn more at TheCopywriterUnderground.com. Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 188 as we chat with copywriter and TCCIRL closing speaker Gin Walker about her journey to copywriting, the advantages that she gets from being a stage actor that apply to copywriting, her reach framework, what she’s done to grow her business this year, and what she would do differently if she had to start over today. Kira: Welcome, Gin. Rob: Hey, Gin. Gin: Hello, guys. How are you doing? Kira: Good. Great to have you here. We have known you for a while. You were in the Copywriter Accelerator program, and then the Copywriter Think Tank Mastermind, and most recently, you spoke on stage at The Copywriter Club in real life in San Diego. So, we’ve seen firsthand how you’ve grown in your business, and I’ll be fun today to share a little bit more about what’s been happening behind the scenes. So, why don’t we start with your story and how you ended up as a copywriter? Gin: Right. Sure, absolutely. Well, it’s been relatively recent that I transitioned into copywriting in fact. I started out in educational publishing. I was a copyeditor for the longest time. Decades, in fact. So, yeah, I’ve been altering minds with word power for a little while. I was a copyeditor, as I say, and a commissioning editor. I was also a kids’ science author within that educational field. I went into that basically straight from university, straight after I graduated way back, and I worked up from the bottom there. But then I went freelance, in fact. I worked in-house at a couple of large educational publishers in the UK, this was. But then went freelance way back in 1995. Well, I continued to work with various publishers that I had worked for in-house for a little while, but then it branched out and I was working for various educational publishers. Because I got myself into really quite a narrow niche by accident, and I didn’t even know what niching was in those days, to be fair, but I was working as a science editor. In fact, people often used to ask me, “How did you get into publishing when you had a science degree?” Because I did [inaudible] biological sciences at university for my first degree. Yes, the fact that I did sciences doesn’t mean I can’t read and write. But nevertheless, it was relatively unusual to be working in the publishing field with that kind of background. So, yeah, I did end up doing similar work for various publishers, especially biology books, but also chemistry, physics. This was at the school level, the kind of high school level. But during all that time, even when I’d gone freelance, I was still very much in the order taker, basically outsourced employee mindset. I was there exclusively for my clients and I had no concept that I had really any control over the direction of my business. It was great. It was actually hugely flexible at

Conversion designer and sales page specialist Melissa Burkheimer is the guest for the 187th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We talked a bit about why copywriters and designers don’t always see eye-to-eye and what we all can do about it. We also asked Melissa about why she niched to conversion design and sales pages and her design process. Here’s what we covered: • how Melissa became a “conversion designer” and started her own business • what she learned from investing in several programs and courses • how she connected with Amy Porterfield through a friend of a friend the “relationship” process she followed to keep adding clients to her roster • her thoughts about “pay to play” and what we think about it too • what she would do to get traction if she had to start over today • why she niched to working only on sales pages and the impact on her biz • how she prices her sales pages and the packages she offers • what it takes for copywriters to work closely with a designer • the difference between a regular designer and a conversion designer • her design process and how she works on a project • her thoughts on wireframes provided by copywriters • what to do when the designer wants to cut your copy • the things that copywriters do that bug designers • what Melissa is working on today and the future of conversion design It’s another great discussion that will give you plenty to think about. Ready to hear what Melissa has to say? Click the play button below. Or scroll down for a full transcript. Or subscribe on your favorite podcast app so you never miss an episode.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Rick Mulready B-School Amy Porterfield Erica Lyremark Elizabeth Dialto Sage Polaris Gin Walker Melissa’s podcast Melissa’s website The Conversion Design School Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Kira Hug: This episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Underground, the place to be if you want to master marketing mindset and copywriting in your business and hit 10K a month in your business without losing your mind. Learn more at thecopywriterunderground.com. Rob Marsh: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira Hug: You’re invited to join the club for episode 187 as we chat with conversion designer Melissa Burkheimer about what copywriters need to know about the design process, how good design makes your copy way more effective, why she only works with seven clients a year and why she created the Conversion Design School. Welcome Melissa. Rob Marsh: Hey Melissa. Melissa Burkheimer: Hi, Kira and Rob, thank you so much for having me. I’m so excited to be here. Kira Hug: We’re excited to have you here. You and I met, I don’t know, three or four years ago, maybe working on a sales page project for Rick Mulready, and that’s when we first met. And it was such a positive experience to work with you on the design side because I know, we’ll talk about this today, but oftentimes it feels like copywriters are battling designers and designers are battling copywriters on projects. But when we worked together, it was just really collaborative and we became friends too, which it was a great surprise too. So a lot of what we’re going to talk about today is how we can work together more effectively. But before we dig into that, why don’t we just start with you and your story? How did you end up as a designer? Melissa Burkheimer: So it’s a funny story. So I actually had a business, I was a professional paid singer as a kid when I was eight and I quit when I was 11. And by the time I quit, my hourly rate was more than I charged when I first started my design business. But when I was in high school, I took photo journalism and I was the photo editor of the school newspaper. And so I ended up going to college right down the street from my high school planning to major in journalism. And then I found out they had a major called graphic drone journalism. So I switched really quickly and that meant I took half of my classes in the design department and half in the communication department. And so when I started college, I also got surprisingly pregnant with my now high school senior. So I was juggling a job and a baby and a relationship and a mortgage while studying. But when I graduated I got married and I had my second son. So I ended up just staying at the same job I had while I was in college because they offered part time and flexible hours before that was really a thing. And then in 2011 I got the itch to be creative. So I started networking in in-person events and got clients based on the fact that I wanted to

In the 186th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob talk with two ambitious copywriters who recently launched the first of many Women Led Summits. Their first summit included 45 different speakers, helped them grow their email list and actually made money. We wanted to know how they did it, so we invited Great Cate and Betsy Muse to the studio to chat. Here’s what we covered: • how Betsy and Greta became business partners • the paths they both took to becoming copywriters • the original vision for the women-led summit and how it came together • what does it take to create a summit today • all the moving pieces for producing a summit… time, editing, interviews, etc. • how Betsy and Greta made it all work • their favorite take aways from the 45 speakers who participated • the impact the summit had on their list and bottom line • the real goal of their summit (it wasn’t really about the money) • how they promoted their summit—the promotion plan • their advice to anyone considering creating their own summit • how they make their partnership work—the benefit of partners • what the future looks like for both Betsy and Greta • how they’ve dealt with mindset issues (like introversion) as they’ve grown If you’ve ever considered creating a summit for your niche, you’ll want to make sure to listen to this episode, which you can do when you click the play button below. Or scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Joanna Wiebe App Sumo WomenLedSummits.com HeySummit The Copywriter Club In Real Life Betsy’s Website Greta’s Website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob: This episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Accelerator, 12-week program for copywriters who want to learn the business skills they need to succeed as copywriters. Learn more at thecopywriteraccelerator.com. Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 186 as we chat with two copywriters, Betsy Muse and Greta Cate, about forming a business partnership with another copywriter, running a summit and their advice for anyone who wants to do one, their biggest struggles in business and what comes next. Kira: Betsy and Greta, welcome. Rob: Hi guys. Betsy Muse: Thank you. It’s great being here. Thanks for having us. Kira: We’re excited to have both of you. It’s a little party today with the four of us. We were both recently a part of your summit that you ran a couple months ago now, your first ever Women-Led Summit. So I know we’re going to dig into that today and talk about summits which are quite popular right now in the COVID-19 landscape. Lots of summits are popping up. But why don’t we start with your story. How did you two end up as business partners? Betsy Muse: Well, it’s a really a funny story. Greta and I met in Joanna Wiebe’s 10x Freelance Copywriter and bonded over a shared love for AppSumo lifetime deals. Greta Cate: Yeah. Betsy Muse: Greta invited me for coffee. I thought, “Hey, great. She lives in North Carolina somewhere, and so we’ll just meet halfway in between.” Now, Greta lives in Corpus Christi, Texas. We weren’t quite meeting in person. And then a week after our virtual coffee, we started an accountability group in 10x Freelance Copywriter. That group is still active today. Greta Cate: Yeah. We had right off the bat realized that we had some shared values and were interested in making and having the same kind of impact. Back to AppSumo, they have this summit deal and we were talking about that and Betsy said, “Let’s do a summit. Let’s do it.” So it was born. We weren’t putting our heads together and trying to come up with a business that we could run together. It wasn’t that kind of situation. It all happened very organically. We just jumped in. Rob: I know we’re mostly going to talk about the partnership that you two have and the summits and the things that you’re doing together. But I actually want to take a step back and ask you both how did you get into copywriting in the first place? What was the thing that made you choose to be a copywriter so that you would have joined a mastermind and then met each other? Greta, maybe you could start and then Betsy. Greta Cate: Sure, sure. I fell in love with writing as soon as I fell in love with stories when I was a child and I sort of never looked back. I come from ghostwriting previous to marketing. I was doing ghostwriting for speeches, presentations, and articles. I have a great love of psychology. I was raised by an edu

Health copywriter, Darren Hanser, is our guest for the 185th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We recently met Darren at an event in Las Vegas, then again at The Copywriter Club In Real Life and after chatting, we knew we had to have him on the show. Darren has built a solid copy business and we got him to share how he did it. Here’s what we talked about: • why he may have been destined to become a copywriter even as a child • the google search term that led him to a career as a copywriter • how he made more than $98,000 in a weekend… to prove he could write • how he learned to come up with lots of good ideas • the importance of the mechanism and how Darren uses it in his copy • his “double down” approach to finding more copy assignments • his “leap frog” approach to investing in the next thing • how he got a client to pay for his first copy coach • what his business looks like today and where his income comes from • his writing process from research to delivery • depression, darkness and overwhelm and having to ask for help • why he attends events and masterminds when his business is already doing well • his take aways from The Copywriter Club In Real Life • the three things you must do to succeed as a copywriter • how Darren structures his fees—a lesson he learned in the insurance industry • what it’s like to look like Seth Rogan • what’s next for Darren in his business this year This is another good one. To hear it, click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. And consider subscribing on your favorite podcast app so you don’t ever miss an episode.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Ask by Ryan Levesque Dan Ferrari Justin Goff Stefan Georgi Dean Jackson’s Naked Truth Letter Copy Chief Live Kim Krause Schwalm Kaitlyn Parker Darren’s website darrenhanser.com 15minuteemails.com Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Kira Hug: This episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Accelerator, the 12-week program for copywriters who want to learn the business skills they need to succeed. Learn more at thecopywriteraccelerator.com. Rob Marsh: What if you can hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira Hug: You’re invited to join the club for Episode 185, as we chat with health supplement copywriter Darren Hanser about writing for wellness and info products, how he commands high fees for the work he does, what he’s done to grow his business, and what it’s like to be Seth Rogan’s doppelganger. Welcome, Darren. Rob Marsh: Hey, Darren. Darren Hanser: Had to throw that in there, right? Kira Hug: You gave that piece of information to me. Darren Hanser: It’s great to be here. Rob Marsh: That’s probably where we should start. Kira Hug: Yeah, exactly. Darren, we met you in Las Vegas not too long ago. We were fast friends and then we saw you again a couple weeks later at TCC in real life before the world shut down. Today, I’m excited to just dig more into your story and what you’ve done to grow. Why don’t we kick it off with how you became a copywriter? What’s your story? Darren Hanser: What’s your story? It’s funny, because that’s the question I ask people and it gets them talking. But when people ask me that I stumble sometimes. Kira Hug: It gets you talking, it’s going to get you talking, yeah. Darren Hanser: It’s gets me talking. The earliest I remember I was always in a sales mentality, just in my own mind. Even as a young child, I was always trying to persuade my parents to do things and I would come up with these arguments, I would come up with these very logical and emotional appeals to them. I’d come into their bedroom at night and sit on the foot of their bed. And they knew that this was the start of a pitch. But they humored me and they allowed me to go through this and that. That grew over time where I enjoyed the art of not changing someone’s mind, but helping them to the place where I know that the best result is going to be. I became enthralled with that idea. I got started in the marketing space on the side. I was in the financial services industry and there was a company that was ahead of the game. They were doing a lot of direct response marketing style work for our local insurance agents. They would help them come up with presentations, unique ideas to present to their customers, really help them differentiate themselves in their local market when everyone else is doing the same thing. I learned how to find really unique ideas in mundane, everyday products, right. I loved doing that and eventually, it got to the point where I didn’t

Copywriter Rachel Greiman is our guest for the 184th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rachel has worked almost exclusively with photographers since she launched her copywriting business a few years ago. We talked about how the niche found her, her unique process and more. Here’s most of what we covered: • how she became a photographer and copywriter • her work as a photo-journalist and the work she did • the struggle she had in early days in her business as a copywriter • how she charged $200 for entire websites—and why it was so low • how clients found her as she launched her copywriting business • why she works with associate writers and how she trained them • what her business looks like today compared to those early days • how she works with and pays her team and what she expects from them • why she pays her team well and how it has helped her business • how she trains her team to make sure they can deliver • why she only takes one client at a time and her delivery schedule • how she thinks about her “competitors” • the “guide” she created to develop a second income stream • what she learned from the process of launching a product • the first time she ever met another copywriter and what happened after that • what she’s done to take her business to the next level • dealing with the virus and running a business in a time of disruption • the reason to be optimistic about the future right now To hear all the great advice Rachel has to share, click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. Or subscribe at iTunes or Stitcher so you never miss an episode.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Rachel’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob: This episode is brought to you by the copywriter accelerator, the 12-week program for copywriters who want to learn the business skills they need to succeed as copywriters, learn more at thecopywriteraccelerator.com Kira: What if you get to hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts? Ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits. Then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work. That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 184 as we chat with copywriter for photographers Rachel Greiman about the power of choosing a niche building and managing team, creating a completely different offer for her audience and what she’s done to take the business to a new level this year. Kira: Rachel, welcome. Rachel: Hi. Thanks for having me. Thanks for dealing with the last 40 minutes of tech problems with us. I’m sure that 90% of it was my fault. So… Rob: Everyone is working from home these days and so the internet does not want to cooperate. Kira: The internet is full. That is true. Rachel: It is full. Kira: So Rachel, we have been working with you and been able to get to know you through the Think Tank over the last 12 months. And we’re excited to share a bit more about your story and some of the wins and even some of the struggles. But why don’t we start with your story. How did you end up as a copywriter? Rachel: That is a really great question and probably one I should have mentally prepared for knowing this, coming here. I just feel like it’s such a winding road and it always gets so long. I will try to condense it though. Kira: Okay. Rachel: So I studied photojournalism in college, so writing and photography always went hand in hand for me. Like I was always doing both. And then after college I worked in the nonprofit field for a long time, almost a decade actually. And I would always get hired for one skillset, either writing or photography. And then I always ended up doing both together because at nonprofits everybody wears a ton of hats. So it quickly became apparent to me that both skill sets were married together kind of indefinitely in my life and I didn’t mind it. I really loved doing both. And then my last full time job, I was doing both together. I was the writer and photographer at a rescue mission in Denver, Colorado. And then I decided I wanted to pursue my own business and I decided I wanted to be a full time family photographer. So I was just kind of putting writing off to the side for a while. And then I joined all the Facebook groups that one joins when they decided to become a photographer and everybody kept asking generic questions about writing. How do I write my about page? How do I write my homepage? How do I write this email to a client? And it was a very natural way for me to be helpful in these new communities. So I could ask my questions about running a photography business and not feel like I was merging. And so I started getting paid to help people write because it was a skill I had already learned in the nonprofit

SEO Consultant (and reformed web designer) Meg Casebolt is our guest for the 183rd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Since this is an area that we don’t have real deep knowledge in, we asked Meg all about what copywriters need to know about SEO and what they should be trying to rank for. And we spent a lot of time talking about the 3-week challenge she put together last year and how it helped grow her list. Here’s a pretty good list of what we covered: • how she went from graphic design to SEO—it’s about grabbing opportunity • what she did to learn SEO in the first place • what she did to work through the pivot from design to SEO • Meg’s advice for anyone working through their own pivot (or choosing a niche) • how she ramped up her client acquisition after the first few referrals • the best thing she’s done to grow her authority since her pivot • the surprising thing that scared Meg as she was running her challenge • how she ran her challenge and how she engaged her affiliates • why her challenge took off (and why people joined in the middle) • how she structured her challenge from start to finish • the results that participants got as they went through the program • how Meg kept people engaged in the Challenge from start to finish • why adding a deadline helped people finish their Challenge assignments • why she no longer does PPC as part of her services • what a copywriter needs to know about SEO and getting online traffic • why you shouldn’t try to rank for a term like “copywriter” • the importance of putting great content on your own website • how she has dealt with mindset issues around working with clients • the end-product she provides clients after a consulting session • why she decided to rebrand her services as she grew her team • what her team looks like today and where Meg spends her time We covered a lot of ground in this one. To hear it, click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. Or subscribe on iTunes or Stitcher so you don’t miss an episode.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Accelerator Tanya Geisler SEOctober MemberVault Meg’s Website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Kira: This episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Accelerator, the 12-week program for copywriters who want to learn the business skills they need to succeed. Learn more at thecopywriteraccelerator.com. Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for Episode 183 as we chat with SEO strategist, Meg Casebolt about planning and writing search friendly content, why SEO needs to be a part of your marketing mix, what it takes to run a month-long challenge as well as the results she got and why has she rebranded and refocused her business solely on SEO. Welcome Meg. Rob: Hey, Meg. Meg: Hey, it’s so nice to be here with you guys. Kira: Yeah, it’s great to have you here. I’ve been able to get to know you over the last nine months or so through Tanya Geisler and I’m excited to just dig into your business more and talk about a lot of the changes that you’ve made and challenges that you’ve taken on, so let’s kick it off with your story. How did you get into SEO? Meg: Okay, so my story is, I think a pretty common one, which is that I had been working in communications for many years. I worked in nonprofits. I worked at an architecture firm for a couple of years doing all of their marketing. I got married, I got pregnant, and I looked at the cost of childcare and I don’t know if I can swear on this podcast, but I swore. So I kind of had to make this decision about how do I want to spend my time, how do I want to make money and I’d been sort of dabbling in freelance graphic design. Actually, when I was working in the nonprofits, I wrote grants to take classes to teach myself design for the nonprofits because nonprofit folks are always very resourceful like that. And so I’ve been freelancing a little bit on the side, just kind of playing around with my personal copy of Adobe Illustrator, and I went, ‘I wonder if I can make this work?’ And then I reconnected with some old friends. My first corporate client was literally my first grade best friend. My first subcontracting client was my next door neighbor from my childhood. And they both were huge experiences and really great companies to work for and so it kind of just took off on its own once I started to pursue this route of being a designer. And it was easy then for me to leave my job and stay home with my son part-time and sent him to daycare part-time, and that was kind of

SaaS Copywriter Rachael Pilcher is our guest for the 182nd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We’ve had a front row seat over the past year as Rachael has made dramatic changes to her business and stepped up as an expert in the SaaS space. So we wanted to ask her about: • how she went from travel blogging to SaaS copywriting • what she did to find her first clients—it started with job boards • what she learned running a “little shop” and why she sold it • why she niched into SaaS and the clients she works with today • the process she went through to choose her niche • what she did to transition from blogger to fully booked copywriter • her processes from start to finish on a project • what she looks for in clients she takes (and those she rejects) • her new website and the process she went through to get where she is • Rachael’s SNACKS framework and how she uses it • the resources she’s used to improve her skills and grow her business • value-based pricing and price anchoring • the biggest mistake she made in her business • why she hangs out where other copywriters DON’T hang out • how she works and avoids the temptation of site seeing while traveling • what Rachael is doing in 2020 This is a good one. To hear it, click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. Or subscribe with your favorite podcast app (don’t forget to leave a review).   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Josh Garofalo Joel Klettke Joanna Wiebe Rachael’s website Copywriter Think Tank Nigel Stevens Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob: This episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Accelerator, the 12-week program for copywriters who want to learn the business skills they need to succeed. Learn more at thecopywriteraccelerator.com Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 182 as we chat with SaaS copywriter Rachael Pilcher about working with software clients, the investments she’s made in her business that have paid off, what she learned from her brick and mortar businesses, and what it’s like to work and travel for months at a time. Kira: Welcome, Rachael. Rob: Hey, Rachael. Rachael: Nice to be here. Thank you for having me on. Kira: Great to have you here. It’s great to have you in a time zone near me, selfishly. I just feel like you’re near me finally because you’re traveling all over the place, which I know we’ll talk about. But yeah, we’ve just really enjoyed getting to know you through the Think Tank over the last year and I just feel like you’re one of those people that is always, you’re just cool. You’re just always cool. When we’re not around you at the Think Tank, we’re all talking about just how you live a very cool life and you’ve done very well in your business and built this really interesting brand that stands out. I mean, you’ve done it in a short period of time. Kira: We’re going to talk about the cool factor today, but let’s kick it off with your story. How did you end up as a copywriter? Rachael: Well, it was kind of accidentally, actually. I had sold my business and I’d sold my classic car as well, so I had quite a bit of money saved up and I just wanted to travel because I hadn’t really done that. So travel, travel, travel, and then obviously started running out of money. So it’s like, what can I do to keep traveling and also have some money coming in? I think I just Googled and Googled and I came across… It was actually Nomadic Matt’s traveling blog course, embarrassingly enough. And so I took that and that was actually really good, and it tells you how to set up a WordPress website, how to find clients and things like that. It didn’t end up being travel writing, but the more I got into that scene and found that I could actually get paid for writing, I sort of stumbled across the Facebook group and you guys, and it went from there. Yeah. Rob: So how did you find your first clients, Rachael, as you set up your website and got going? What did you do to find clients as you were kicking off? Rachael: I set up a really, really crappy website on WordPress and then I think I went through… ProBlogger job board was the first job I got and it was an $80 US post. Can’t remember what it was about. Something to do with kids and business or something. It was a bit random but they gave me the job, and then I got another one off the same board which was just marketing stuff. It kind of snowballed from there quite quickly. Kira: So when did you get

In the 181st episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob talk about what happened at TCCIRL—the best event we’ve held yet. Several speakers stepped up at the last minute, others brought their A-game and shared ideas and stories that have changed the businesses of the 130+ copywriters who were there. We talk about: • the earthquake, the virus and the economic response to it • why we can’t afford to operate from a place of fear no matter what is going on • why TCCIRL felt “better” this year than in the past • the speakers who had less than 48 hours to get stage ready • a few of the speakers who really stood out to us • what Jasmine Star taught us about scaling a business • the hero’s journey and what marketers miss when they talk about it • some of the advice that came out of the panel discussions • how to think about branding from the standpoint of authenticity • the power of constraints to make us more creative • why its important to think about your role as a human asset, not just a copywriter • what you should do differently during a recession • why the Copywriter Think Tank is about and the transformation members see If you can’t get enough of what happened at TCCIRL or you want more information about The Copywriter Think Tank, click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank TCCIRL Mike Kim Dana Malstaff Marcella Allison Ray Edwards Jasmine Star Jamie Jensen Tanya Geisler Linda Perry Lindsay Hotmire Justin Blackman Matt Hall Gin Walker Bond Halbert Stefan Georgi Sam Woods Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob: So, we do not have an intro for this episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast because it’s just me and Kira chatting about what went down over the last week or so at The Copywriter Club In Real Life. And so yeah, we just wanted to jump in and share some of our biggest takeaways, what happened and express our gratitude for some things that happened. And reflect a little bit on the magic that we got to experience last week. Kira: Well it’s not just me and you, it’s me and you and the earthquake. Rob: So, we did have an earthquake here this morning, so hopefully- Kira: No biggy. Rob: The power will stay on long enough to make sure that everything here is good. But yeah, it’s been kind of a crazy morning Kira while it’s been not just the morning, right? With the virus, with everything that’s going on it’s a crazy, a lot of things. Kira: And Rob is kind of downplaying the earthquake like, ‘Oh, it’s just a little earthquake.’ It was a big one and with several follow-up tremors. I don’t speak earthquake language because I live on the East Coast, we don’t have earthquakes here typically. But can you just share, I mean these are big earthquakes that you experienced today. Rob: Yeah, the first big one that we felt this morning was like a 5.7 on the Richter scale, which is- Kira: It’s a big deal. Rob: It’s big enough to knock down walls and there’s definitely been a little bit of damage. They closed the airport because of some water main breakage, they had to evacuate I think the tower. I’m not sure if there was any damage there, but I’m far enough away from the epicenter that I’ve walked around my house, there’s no damage to our house and there are no fatalities reported, no injuries. So while it could have certainly been worse and maybe someday a worse earthquake will happen here. We survived this one. But it is freaky when the ground starts moving, when everything in your house starts to shake and it’s happened seven or eight times this morning of the ones that we could feel. And yeah. So, who knows? Like if you hear a rumble in the background while we’re chatting here, it could be another aftershock going on and on and I’ll just dive under my desk. Kira: That’d be cool footage to have. I experienced my first mini earthquake this past summer in Bali in the middle of the night and it was a baby earthquake. It was probably nothing even compared to what you experienced today. But it was my first really my first one. And it was terrifying even though it was just a little shake, shake and we did exactly what you’re not supposed to do because we haven’t experienced it before. We ran out of the building, which you’re not supposed to do because debris could fall. So you probably know the etiquette of how you’re supposed to react but it was a terrifying experience. And I know we also wrote recently about earthquakes in one of our promo emails for the event and we talked about the big earthquake coming and potentially harming your city. So anyway hoping that you stay safe. And I’m just wondering Rob how are you staying so like cool and calm and collected now that we&#

Copywriter and persuasion scientist Jimmy Parent is our guest for the 180th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We’ve been meaning to get Jimmy on the podcast for quite a while and were finally able to make it happen. Jimmy is a master storyteller and has spent a lot of time thinking about how to make messages more compelling. We asked him about: • how Jimmy went from phone sales to copywriter, then what he did to grow his skills • the importance of sales skills for copywriting • Jimmy’s two favorite books and how they’ve influenced his career choices • the training he took advantage of as he was just getting started • the copy training he experienced at Agora—what worked for him, what didn’t • how to be more persuasive in your own writing • the PMP stack for developing big ideas and how to have more of them • how to sell your idea once you have it • the critical message that is missing from almost all sales messages—this hurts sales • what Jimmy is doing today for his clients today—kicking ducks so to speak • the worst dad joke ever told… seriously, the worst • his current pricing model—draw against commissions • his secret for attracting high-paying clients—Jimmy shares exactly where to find them • the thing that sets the very best copywriters apart from the rest • the biggest lesson he has learned from working with Oren Klaf… it’s a good one • what Jimmy has struggled with over the past couple of years Like we said, this is an episode you won’t want to miss. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. Better still subscribe on iTunes so you never miss an episode.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kevin Rogers The Go-Giver by Bob Burg Mastery by Robert Greene Joe Schriefer John Carlton Contagious Extreme Ownership 15 Minute Copywriter with Jimmy John Caples The Copywriter Accelerator Pitch Anything by Oren Klaf Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Transcript is underway…  

Copywriter and former cookie maker, Helen Tremethick, is our guest for the 179th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Helen has an interesting approach to working with her clients, so we asked her all about it… and we asked her about these things too: • the path she followed from R&D director at a cookie company to copywriter • the common thread running through the jobs she had before she became a writer • her “complimentary relationship” tactic for finding clients • the “platypus model” for working with branding and copy clients • how to create, sell and deliver a workshop for clients (and the economics of it all) • the mistakes you’ll want to avoid if you want to hold workshops • what her Clarity Sessions include—getting the underlying brand values right • the questions she asks her clients in her consulting work • how she prices her introductory offers in order to attract clients • the tactics she uses to “do brand voice” better—this is an idea worth stealing • what she includes in her roadmapping sessions • where things go off the rails with style and brand voice guides • the other unique things she’s doing in her business that other copywriters aren’t • her experience as a blocker in roller derby • Helen’s and Kira’s copywriting lessons from roller derby • where she thinks copywriting is going in the future To hear everything Helen shared, click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. Or, even better, subscribe on iTunes or Stitcher so you never miss an episode.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The price survey Tanya Geisler Helen’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Kira: This episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Accelerator, the 12 week program for copywriters who want to learn the business skills they need to succeed. Learn more at thecopywriteraccelerator.com. Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for Episode 179 as we chat with copywriter and brand voice strategist, Helen Tremethick about how to position of business so you attract the right clients, creating more than one revenue stream in her business, how she creates balance and ignores the hustle and her experience in roller derby. Welcome, Helen. Helen: Hi, thank you. Kira: Kick this off and let us know how you ended up as a copywriter and brand voice strategist. What’s your story? Helen: Oh, yes, thanks. The short story is that I went to school for radio and television broadcasting. Then I went to school for International Development. Brand voice strategy is really about communicating who you are, and really understanding that deeper motivation. It’s really hybrid of both of those educational channels that I took along the way in a very formal way. But the truth of the matter is, if you get a little bit deeper and uncover the story, there are a lot of hats that I wore along the way from being a research and development consultant for a cookie company, to being an executive director of a nonprofit, and even being a purple tea apprentice at a farm in central Ontario. All these experiences allowed me to really see business owners as they are, what works, what doesn’t work, and really start formulating a way of communicating that connects to the people that we want to connect to, but still maintains this really genuine and authentic, not authentic TM, but this really authentic way of communicating who you are. Rob: Did you just say you were an R&D specialist in a cookie company? Helen: Yes, vegan cookie company in Toronto, also a baker. Rob: Okay, let’s hear more about that. Because I can imagine waking up as an R&D person thinking, okay, chocolate chips been done, pumpkins been done, snicker doodles been done. What am I going to do today? What do you do as an R&D person in a cookie company? Helen: A lot of it was really testing out recipe ideas that came from the owner. I got to tell you, a lot of it was taste testing. Baking cookies, taste testing, seeing if they’ll fly and then… Also not just seeing if they’ll fly with the audience, whether they taste good, but if they hold their structure. I suppose we could apply a really good business metaphor here as well. It’s not just what lands but what works well for you as well as the audience involved. Rob: Okay, what was the weirdest recipe that you developed there? Helen: Gosh, we did a lot of spicy chocolate stuff for a little while, which can go… Yes, absolutely. Spicy chocolate done well is very delicious. Spicy chocolate done not well, is it honestly… Kira: How do you ever leave

Productivity Expert and Coach, Charlie Gilkey, is our guest for the 178th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We’ve admitted our struggles with getting things done on the podcast before—and neither one of us is a fan of traditional time management tactics like setting SMART goals… so it made sense to have Charlie on to talk through how we can start finishing and get more done. We asked Charlie about: • how he accidentally became a speaker, author and coach • exactly what he does as a coach and how he helps his clients • why coaches ask so many questions (and don’t always share the answers) • an example of how Charlie works with his clients to help them find the real issues • why so many people shy away from the work that could help them level up • why accountability helps anyone who wants achieve more • why time management isn’t the answer (but you still need it) • focus blocks and how to use them to get more done • how to stop what you’re doing that’s keeping you from getting what you want • how to figure out if you’re a lark, an owl, or an emu • his advice for figuring out what you really want • the hardest question Charlie asks people (and why) • why he doesn’t believe anyone is inherently a procrastinator • the tools we can use to create a better vision for our lives • the difference between those who make it and those who give up • what his book is about and what you’ll get out of it • what he does to grow his skills and be a better coach for his clients If you struggle with getting things done, or finishing the thing you start… or you just want to quit and watch Netflix for a few weeks, you don’t want to miss this episode. To hear it, click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. Better still, subscribe on iTunes so you never miss an episode.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Coaching Habit The Advice Trap Joanna Wiebe Val Geisler The Spice Girls Double Double Start Finishing (Charlie’s book) Deep Work by Cal Newport Finish by John Acuff Charlie’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob: This episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Club In Real Life, our live event in San Diego March 12th through 14th. Get your tickets now at thecopywriterclub.com/tccirl. Kira: What if you could hang with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 178 as we chat with author and business coach Charlie Gilkey about how to take an idea from start to finish, what it takes to level up your business, how to effectively use time to get more done, and what it takes to do your best work. Kira: Charlie, welcome! Rob: Hey, Charlie. Charlie: Thanks so much for having me, guys. I’m pumped to be here. Kira: Yeah. We’re pumped! I have been looking forward to this for a while. So let’s just start, Charlie, with your story. For anyone who doesn’t know you as well, how did you end up as an executive coach, speaker, an author, and a philosopher? Charlie: Well, when it comes to the executive coach, speaker, and author bit, all of that was super accidental. I fell into this backassward, in the sense where I had come back. So let’s roll back to 2006, 2007. I had recently come back from being a deployed soldier for Operation Iraqi Freedom, and I still had my career as an Army officer. I was a logistics officer. And I was also pursuing my PhD in philosophy. So I’m a social philosopher and an ethicist. And it seems so sophomoric now, looking back as a 40-year-old, looking back at my 26-year-old self. But my 26-year-old self was like, ‘I’ve got to get my stuff together. I’m just not making it happen. I’m just not getting stuff done.’ What I would say now is, ‘You’ve got two careers, dummy. Chill!’ Right? But at the time, I was just like, ‘Ah! I’m not making it happen.’ So I did what any good scholar and any good officer would do. I was just like, ‘Look. I’m not the only person that has had this problem. Someone else has figured this out.’ So I started doing the research, and I found that I was having to do a lot of synthesis and translation of what I was reading from the productivity literature, which tended to be really granular, and really focused on tasks. And it just really focused on lower-level stuff in the personal development literature, which tended to be pretty lofty. But my problem was this messy world in the middle of projects. I had all these projects that just wasn’t getting done. And so I did what any good scholar and philosopher would do, is I started teaching other people about this sort of stuff. And it seems really funn

Social Media strategist, Andrea Jones is our guest for the 177th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We were interested in this topic because we are so bad at using social media in our own businesses and for The Copywriter Club. If you’ve struggled to find a way to maximize social media to help you find clients you’ll want to listen to this. We asked Andrea about: • how she became a social media strategist—she started doing posts for $5 • what she did to meet her husband (he was annoying her on Youtube) • what’s going on in social media today and the rise of video • how to understand your audience so you serve them • where you should start if you’re overwhelmed by social media • the importance—or non-importance—of design and “the grid” • the bare minimum you should be sharing on social media • how to build your audience and get the attention of your best prospects • how to turn social media into a lead generation tool for your biz • the mistakes people make on social media that you don’t want to make • the “right” approach to your brand voice on social media • when you should be working with a team and when you shouldn’t • what it costs to hire a social media consultant • the #1 thing she’s done to take her business to the next level • the future of social media… and how you can get ahead of it This episode is available wherever great podcasts are found (like iTunes and Stitcher). Or you can simply click the play button below. There’s also a transcript for anyone who scrolls down.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Life Coach School Andrea’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Kira: This episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Club In Real Life, our live event in San Diego, March 12th through the 14th. Get your tickets now at thecopywriterclub.com/tccirl. Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode 177 as we chat with social media strategist, Andrea Jones about creating impact and social media channels like Instagram and LinkedIn, creating sales funnels that start in social media, why copywriters need to spend more time in this important channel and the things she’s done to up level her business. Welcome, Andrea. Rob: Hey Andrea. Andrea: Thank you so much for having me. I’m super excited to chat with you guys today. Kira: I know we’re excited to talk about social media because we’ve done well in certain areas in media, but there are other areas where we are lacking in The Copywriter Club. Rob: It’s so bad. Kira: Super bad, because we’ve talked about it before, Andrea. So why don’t we start this off with your story and talk about how you ended up as a social media strategist. Andrea: Yes. I love this question because, I met my husband on YouTube. Rob: Social media is a game changer is what you’re saying. Andrea: It literally has changed my life. But I am an early adapter to social media. I actually happen to like it and I started a blog back in 2004. I was making YouTube videos in 2007 way before it was cool and my friends thought I was insane. And so social media for me is just a really fun way for an introvert like myself to show up in a way that’s still doesn’t drain my energy. I started out on social media as fun, but it wasn’t until I actually moved to live with my YouTube husband in 2014 when I started the business. So with that move, I needed something to do. I moved to a completely different country from Atlanta, Georgia to Toronto, Canada. And so that big move helped me launch my business. And I was amazed when I started digging into the freelancing world how many people didn’t understand social media since I had a natural love for it and how my clients were just grateful and thankful that they didn’t have to think about it anymore. So my start in this world came from a very organic space. Rob: And tell us more about that. What were the things that you started doing as you were starting this business in social media? Andrea: Yeah, I started off doing all of the things. I was actually doing a lot of things on Fiverr. You guys know Fiverr. So it was writing Facebook post for $5. Um, and that actually got my start into it. And once I was doing those kind of little piecemeal things, I noticed that there was a big space for people who needed this consistently. So it’s one of those things where it’s 24/7 clients need it all of the time. And so I really leaned into that and that’s where I got my start building out a monthly retainer package and really helping clients that wa

We don’t often have two guests join us in the studio, but this week is one of those exceptions. For this special “un-numbered’ episode, we’ve invited Rob Braddock and Conor Lynch to share how they become copywriters, what they’re doing differently in the financial niche, and how you can earn the opportunity for a paid gig ($7,500 plus royalties) to write a promo for WealthPress. You’ll want to listen to get the details. We also talked about: • how Rob Braddock accomplished his meteoric rise from prisoner to successful copywriter • the resources he used to learn direct response copywriter • Rob’s daily meditation practice • how easy it is to get your foot in the door wherever you want to work • how Conor Lynch got his first taste of copywriting at age 13 • the boring narrative arc in the biz-op niche that drove him to finance • how WealthPress became the fastest growing Financial publisher • the writing and approval process that helped Conor get promotions done faster • the importance of spectacle when it comes to getting attention • the process of building a hot list (and how WealthPress does it differently) • whether spectacle and video promotions will work in niches beside finance • why WealthPress is sponsoring the cocktail party at TCCIRL • how you can “win” an opportunity for a paid promotion with WealthPress Don’t skip this one, especially if you’ve ever dreamed of writing in the financial niche. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. Or better yet, subscribe on iTunes or Stitcher so you never miss an episode.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: WealthPress The Gary Halbert Letters Jake Hoffberg Joe Schriefer Evaldo Albuequeque Dan Kennedy Yanik Silver Russell Brunson Raging Bull Angel Publishing Trade Winds Bencivenga’s Marketing Bullets Joel Klettke Macallan M Contest Entries Go Here Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob M: This is a different kind of interview than we usually do. We usually only talk to one person at a time. Today we have both Rob Braddock and Conor Lynch as our guests today. For a couple different reasons we’re doing this a little bit differently. One, because we’ve got a contest that we’re going to talk about here in just a minute. Two, you guys worked together to create some pretty interesting financial promotions, and you do it in a different way. Before we get into all of that, maybe Rob Braddock, we can start with your story. Then maybe we can hear a little bit from Conor about his story and how he got into this business. Rob B: Right. Well, yeah. I guess it is a pretty crazy thing to think. You could probably go back not too far just two years or so ago and find the first post I made in The Copywriter Club. I didn’t know anything about copywriting two years ago really, but I’d just discovered it. So, before I got into copywriting, I was in political fundraising. Got in a little bit of trouble. Bribery this, bribery that, yada, yada, yada, blah, blah, blah. Three years in federal prison. That essentially ended that career and all of the contacts I had built up over time. It’s not something I could get back into. So, I had to start over again. After I stumbled around and bumbled around trying to figure out what I was going to do, I knew it was going to be something in the internet space or maybe I would SEO, sales or something. I wasn’t really sure. I stumbled across copywriting, direct response copywriting and then financial direct response copywriting. Once I saw what it was, what it is and how much money can be made with it, I was like, ‘All right, I’m doing this, man. I’m going all in.’ So, I started studying and studying and studying relentlessly. It was essentially my primary focus of my life for six months at least. Then one thing led to another, and I was lucky enough to get a shot to work for Agora and went to Agora. Had a couple of hits at Agora. Then decided to leave to join up with WealthPress and see if we could make some big moves. So, that’s where I am. That’s the quick story. Kira: That is a quick story, but we want to dig into that a little bit more. From your time in prison, is there a question that people ask you repeatedly about that time in your life that just you’re tired of it because everyone asks you the same question? Rob B: No. Everyone just says, ‘What was it like?’ Not really a lot of specifics. The hardest part of prison is the separation and being totally disconnected from the rest of the world, and the world’s moving by and you don’t know what’s happening. You’re sort of stuck in this one place. It’s literal and metaphorical at the same time. You’re stuck in one spot while everything else is moving by. A lot of guys decide to stay stuck in that place, again, physicall

Special Midweek Bonus Episode. TCCIRL is just around the corner, so we invited Event Strategist, Elaine Wellman, to join us for the 176th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. When we first published the podcast, we regularly posted two episodes a week. Now that’s a rarity… thanks to the behind the scenes info that Elaine shares about TCCIRL, we didn’t want to wait to publish this on. We talked to Elaine about: • the path she followed from public relations to coaching to event management • how she landed her first solo event project and launched her business • the mindset shifts needed to recognize when business isn’t working • when you need to “go with the flow” at events and when you shouldn’t • the different ways you can approach events (it doesn’t have to be big) • doing the things in your business that others won’t do because they’re hard • the truth about The Copywriter Club In Real Life • the extra things that are truly unique about TCCIRL • the stuff Elaine thinks we should be doing differently • the difference between a great event and one that underwhelms • how to get the right people to attend an event • how to handle the stress of hosting or attending an event • when you need to consider getting an event coordinator to help • how to know whether the event coordinator you’re considering is the right one • the food that VIP ticket holders will get to “experience” This one is a fun behind-the-scenes discussion of the planning of TCCIRL and the importance of events—you won’t want to miss it. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. Or subscribe on iTunes or Stitcher so you never miss an episode.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: TCCIRL Copywriting Event Prerna Malik Publicis Why Events are Rocket Fuel for Your Business The Event Planning PDF The Event Retreat Leaders Lounge Elaine’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob: This episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Club In Real Life, our live event in San Diego, March 12th through 14th. Get your tickets now at thecopywriterclub.com/tccirl. Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habit, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 176 as we chat with our Event Planner for TCCIRL, Elaine Wellman, about planning events of all sizes, why it can be a good idea to work with an event planner, why some events are life changing while others are kind of blah, and how events can deepen client connections. Kira: Welcome Elaine. Rob: Hey Elaine. Elaine: Hey you guys, been so long since we talked yesterday or maybe… Rob: All we do is talk to you lately. We are in the throes of planning a pretty big event with you. Kira: Yes, we are a month away, as Elaine likes to remind us. It stresses me out a little bit to think about it, but Elaine, we met you three years ago before our first event in New York City. Prerna Malik had introduced us and I think we were, I remember we were halfway through the planning process when we were just like, ‘Oh, we need help.’ And luckily, we met you and you were able to swoop in and help us produce the event, the first event and make it a success. So, you’ve been integral to the process and you’ve also seen how the event has evolved. We’re going to get into all of that. But let’s just first start with your story. How did you get into this business? How did you end up as an event strategist and planner? Elaine: It wasn’t really by design. I guess I’ll try to give you the short version here because we have a lot to talk about. But I majored in college in communications and went into public relations. And some of your copywriters might be able to relate to the PR industry. I don’t know, but it is a huge burnout job for sure. I ended up at an agency, a really small company that morphed from PR to doing a lot of events. And in public relations, the area that I was in, I did events for my clients, but my major focus was on getting publicity for them. And I always liked events because they’re really tangible when you’re working on them. It’s something that you create and you see it and you bring it to life and then it ends unlike getting publicity, which is this unending, everlasting project. So, I always liked events. And then the company I worked for just morphed into focusing on events, getting a lot of event clients, it was pretty unique. The owner is French and we got all these French companies that were doing events in New York and ended up doing a lot of trade shows, really small boutique trade shows, a little bit upscale, which was great training grounds

For the 175th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob talked with copywriter Derek Hambrick about his path to freelance copywriter… including his first failed attempt and what made him successful the second time he gave it a go. We also talked about: • the path he followed from communications to copywriting • the surprising emotions Derek felt when he was laid off… panic and excitement • how he relies on relationships to find clients for his business • what he did to step up his copywriting game as he went out on his own • the importance of giving and altruism to Derek’s ROI • the process he follows as he works with his clients • why he chose his niche and the impact its had on his business growth • the pros and cons of working in the higher education niche • how he moves from one client to the next and gets referrals • the changes he’s made to his mindset in order to think bigger • his experience in The Copywriter Underground and what he gets from it • how to get the most from a course or community you belong to • the mistakes he’s made as he moved from full time to freelance • what comes next… how Derek keeps growing To hear what else we talked about, click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. Or better yet, subscribe with your favorite podcast app and never miss an episode.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Ry Schwartz Joel Klettke The Copywriter Underground Cantilever Creative TCCIRL Copywriting Event Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Kira: This episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Club In Real Life, our live event in San Diego, March 12th through the 14th. Get your tickets now at thecopywriterclub.com/tccirl. Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode 175 as we chat with copywriter Derek Hambrick about moving from full time work to freelance, choosing his niche and what that did for his business, what he did to find his first clients and how he finds people to work with today, his experience in The Copywriter Underground and what he’s doing differently in 2020. Welcome, Derek. Derek: Hey guys, thanks for having me over. Kira: Yeah, I feel like we have wanted to have this conversation with you for a while. We’ve been able to hang out with… Well, I was able to hang out with you in person not too long ago and chat with you then, but we really wanted to record this and find out more about you and your business and what you’ve done because it’s worked well. So, why don’t we kick it off with your story? How did you end up as a copywriter? Derek: Yes. So, I always knew I wanted to work with words for a living, but didn’t know exactly how. Long story really short, I found myself working at Delta Airlines, not really knowing what I wanted to do with my life, but I figured Delta was a big enough place that I’ll probably find it there and get paid as well along the way as I figured that out. I remember working on the International Concourse, writing a few articles for newsletters, that kind of thing. Nothing big. But one evening the last flight pushed out to Santiago, Chile. That was done. Went back to the break room, working on an article, looked at the clock and an hour had gone by. And at that point I realized, ‘My God, I must really enjoy this.’ And that’s when I realized I’ve got to find some role, some place capacity for me to write for a living. So I applied for a bunch of corp-comm jobs, marketing roles and that kind of thing. Nothing really panned out because I didn’t have a degree is what it turned out to be. So I got one. Working full time, went back to school. I got a communications and rhetoric degree from my Alma Mater. Essentially once I got that… by that time I had landed a corporate communications job, but figuring that I had my degree, I had some experience, I’ll go ahead and make my own way in the world as a writer. So, quit the job, jumped out of the eighth floor of corporate communications and into the tea cup of freelance. And to paint the picture of it, this was back in 2008. So, it was not the best time financially to start your own business. And that turned out to be my biggest failure was trying to go out of my own way too early and really without any kind of plan. Went through our savings, racked up some debt, wasn’t good. But some good lessons. So, that’s a positive of there. So what did I do? I decided to go in-house, get a full-time job, benefits, had a family at the time, still do. But I had people depending on me as the main breadwinner. So,

Copywriter, coach and expert marketer, Ray Edwards is our guest for the 174th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. In this wide ranging conversation, Kira and Rob asked Ray about his business, how he got started, the changes he’s making in his business and life, and what he does to accomplish more than most other people… even things he thinks are impossible. Here are a few of the things we covered: • how Ray went from radio host to copywriter • the experiences he had working in radio that help him in his copywriting career • his tattoos… what they are and why had has them • what has happened in Ray’s life and business over the last few years • what can happen when you remove the fear from your life • why it’s important to let your hidden personal beliefs influence your work persona • the power of impossible goals to set off a quantum leap in your life and business • why worthy failures are critical for achieving your impossible goals • Ray’s two-word counsel you need to hear—especially if you’re not operating at your best • the unspoken part of the law of manifestation and how to manifest things into your life • the things that have made the biggest difference in Ray’s business • what he would do today if he had to start over with nothing • drag racing rental cars when he travels • what’s next for Ray and where you can reach out to him If you want to accomplish more than you ever thought possible, you’ll want to listen to this episode. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. Or download the episode to your favorite podcast player.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Jack Canfield Frank Kern Tony Robbins Ray’s podcast Ray’s Instagram Ray’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Kira: This episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Club In Real Life, our live event in San Diego, March 12th through the 14th. Get your tickets now at thecopywriterclub.com/TCCIRL. Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode 174 as we chat with master copywriter, coach and consultant, Ray Edwards about his rise from radio personality to A-list copywriter, the relationship between his struggles and his success, the business and mindset shifts he’s made in the past year and how he creates so much content every single week. Welcome Ray. Rob: Hey Ray. Ray: Hi, thank you. Kira: It’s great to have you here, Ray, because you are one of my mentors and I was lucky enough to be in your mastermind group last year and went through a lot of different .. my own mindset shifts just by joining that group and spending time with you. So I’m glad that we’re able to dig in and ask you a bunch of questions today. I’m also surrounded by all the books you gave me because you gave me so many books from our time together. I’m still working my way through them, but they’re all surrounding me right now. So I’ve got some Ray vibes in my office right now. Ray: That’s what happen with anybody who hangs around me, I’ll actually have a book for you. Kira: I loved it. So let’s kick it off. Many of our listeners know who you are, but let’s just share your story, how you ended up as a copywriter. Ray: Well, I started in the radio business when I was 14 and I loved being on the radio. I loved storytelling. I hung out at my grandparents house a lot during those days and I used to read the National Enquirer and I was fascinated by the ads. I actually thought they were articles, I was a bit younger when this was going on. I thought they were articles, they were actually ads by Eugene Schwartz. And I just remember being fascinated by them. And later I learned that they were advertising, I learned about copywriting. So I started using that in my radio career to write ads for our clients, the stations, to write ads to promote the stations. And I did radio for over 25 years and I wrote tons of copy and I felt like I had the secret weapon because I had Jay Abraham and Claude Hopkins and Dan Kennedy and John Carlton backing me up. And nobody in radio knew who those guys were. So they were like my secret team of superheroes to make me look brilliant. And then Steve Jobs came out with this invention, the iPod and it was a thousand songs in your pocket with no commercials and no annoying DJs. And I said, oh, we’re in trouble, radio business is in trouble. So I ended up getting out of radio. I figured out that people would actually pay me to write copy outside radio. And in the radio business, this is a little known fact, in the radio business, hardl

Accountant and business consultant, Erik Solbakken, is the guest for episode 173 of The Copywriter Club Podcast. If you saw that Erik is an accountant and thought, “maybe I’ll skip this one” don’t. Because we didn’t really talk with Erik about the typical accounting stuff. Instead, Erik shared how he changed the pricing model for his service business and how copywriters can do the same thing. Now instead of trading time for money, a signifiant portion of Erik’s income is completely independent of the time he spends working with clients. Instead, he makes more when he creates more value. Kira and Rob asked Erik about: • how he went from tax accountant to strategic consultant • what he did to significantly change how he earns a living as an accountant • the realization that how long a thing takes isn’t connected to its value • the three lies business owners tell themselves about money • a breakdown of why value can’t be attached to the time spent to create it • why working with clients doesn’t have to suck • the 4 step solution to solving any problem—and the most important step • the 10-10-10 model for pricing coaching services • why he insists his clients “never sell” • the 3 Cs Erik covers on every sales call • the mistakes that are all too easy to make when selling on value • his total launch failures and the impact it had on his business This is an episode you won’t want to miss. To hear it, click the play button below, or download the episode to your favorite podcast player. And if you’re rather read, you can scroll down for a full transcript and links to some of the people and things we talked about.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Jeff Walker Erik’s website Accountant Success Formula Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Transcript is underway…    

Allison Evelyn Gower is our guest for the 172nd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We asked Allison about her experience creating her first program, what inspired her to move fast, and how she got scrappy to fill it. She offers plenty of learning and advice to anyone who is thinking of creating a program or course. Here’s the outline of what we covered during this interview: • what inspired her transition from film production to copywriting • how she learned to be “scrappy” as a production assistant • how Allison landed her first few clients • what’s happened in her business since she launched—lots of changes • the process she went through to find her niche • the 3 things that have been the biggest game changers for her business • how she pulls brand personality out of her clients • the answers Rob and Kira gave to one of Allison’s on-boarding questions • how to get feedback from clients on the words that describe you • secrets for identifying the language that shows off your personality • how you project your personality into the world • what she did when she launched her day-rate package • why she decided to launch a group program—and how Kira lit a fire under her • how Allison mapped out her program and created her content • what she did to fill her first program—an idea she stole from Tarzan Kay • the things she’s doing differently as she relaunches the course • how to run a business while moving across the country If your copywriting business could be scrappier or you’re looking for some launch inspiration for your first product, you won’t want to miss this interview. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. Better still, subscribe on iTunes or Stitcher so you never miss an episode.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Joe Nefziger Tarzan Kay Laura Belgray The Copywriter Think Tank Allison’s Website The Brand with Bite Podcast Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Kira: This episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Club In Real Life, our live event in San Diego, March 12th through the 14th. Get your tickets now at thecopywriterclub.com/tccirl. Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode 172 as we chat with copywriter and product creator Allison Gower about how she became a copywriter, her first big solo product launch. How she’s changed the work she does over time, launching a podcast and running a business while moving across the country. Welcome Allison. Allison: Hey mates. How’s it going? Kira: Good. It’s always good with you. It’s always good. So we’re so excited to have you here to talk more about your story. Let’s kick it off with how you became a copywriter. Allison: Oh my life, in a summary. Yes, let’s go. So the long story short, I was always making up ads and writing as a kid and doing all these things that had no idea what actually does something later in life. Right? Like I think a lot of us, copywriters and people in brand, we look back as kids and are like, ‘Oh yeah.’ Rob: We don’t normally interrupt you in the story. But ads as a kid, what were you writing ads of? Allison: Me and my best friend, elementary school, we came up with this candy bar and we called it a nitwit bar and we created the packaging. We actually made a barn, created the design and then we created commercials for it. And then we had a school project where honestly, you didn’t really have to do very much but we went real hard and then create a commercial and performed it. So we would do stuff like that all the time for fun. And yet it took me another two decades to figure out what I wanted to do. Which is kind of funny, because it should have been obvious. So doing stuff like that. Majored in English, minored marketing, was working in production. So it sounds glamorous to say we had headsets and we’re in LA working on shoots and all the things. But what I discovered was even though there was a lot I loved about the production world, commercials and photo shoots and all the things I always felt this jealousy almost of the agencies we worked with, because then I would partner with them, it would be story-boarding and saying, ‘Oh here are the words, this is what the brand should be.’ And then we would take our stuff and go make the commercial happen. I always felt like, ‘Oh the fun part was in the room that we just left.’ And I think sometimes a little bit of… We feel that envy or sadness like, ‘That show is what we’re supposed to be doing.’ It was one of the gents who would be in the story boarding