The Copywriter Club Podcast

It’s a bit early to pick a best episode of 2020, but we predict this will be an early contender. Master copywriter, Stefan Georgi, joined us for the 171th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, to talk about how he became a copywriter who has helped his clients earn $700 million is sales. That is NOT a typo. Stefan is a terrific copywriter and this interview is practically a workshop on writing better sales letters. We talked about: • the lucky poker game that turned Stefan into a copywriter • how he landed his first two clients (and $300) 24 hours after calling himself a copywriter • growing into clients and selling almost $700 million worth of products • the crazy amount of work that earned Stefan $80K a month • how he ended up writing 8 out of 10 of the top performing pages on click bank • how he obsessed over the craft of copywriting (and what that involved) • his favorite copywriting resource—we’ve included a link so you can get it too • the RMBC method for writing a sales letters • the genius way he breaks the “mechanism” into two parts that increases sales • the different things you need to do with the lead of a sales page • Stefan’s point-by-point script for a sales page that you can use when you write • the most common mistakes copywriters make when writing a sales message • the ROI escalation method and how Stefan uses it to justify his rates • how his mindset has shifted as he’s grown in his business • how he got his clients to recommend him to future clients • how he balances his time writing for elite clients with time for his family You won’t want to miss this one. To get it, download it to your favorite podcast app (or better yet, subscribe so you never miss an episode), click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: TCCIRL Warrior Forum ClickBank Software Projects The Fascinations Doc Stefan and Justin’s Mastermind Stefanpaulgeorgi.com Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob: This episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Club In Real Life, our live event in San Diego, this coming March 12th through 14th. You can get your tickets now at thecopywriterclub.com/tccirl. Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the Club for Episode 171 as we chat with copywriter Stefan Georgi about his approach to writing long copy, the ROI escalation ladder and how we can use it in our businesses, what it takes to write copy that produces $700 million in revenue over six years, and how he gets his clients to sell his services for him. Kira: Welcome Stefan. Rob: Hey, Stefan. Stefan: Hey, guys. Thank you. It’s great to be here. Kira: Yeah, we’re excited to have you here. We met you through Brian Kurtz, through the Titans Masterclass, and so, glad we can hang out today. And also you’re going to be speaking at our event in March, which is really exciting. Stefan: Yeah, I’m thrilled for that. I really appreciate you guys inviting me to come speak, but I cannot wait for that. Kira: All right, so why don’t we start off with your story? How did you end up as a copywriter? Stefan: Yeah, so it’s definitely one of those sort of funny twists of fate or things that are, it’s a bit unexpected, I suppose you’d say. In 2011, I was teaching at an outdoor school in Marble Falls, Texas, which is about an hour and a half outside of Austin. And I was at this place called The Outdoor School, which was like a summer camp during the summer and a outdoor Ed type facility during the spring and the fall, where kids from all over Texas would come in on buses and stay from anywhere from a couple of days to a week. And they’d be taught about nature, living off the land, water quality, astronomy and things like that. I was one of the instructors there, which that happened because I’d been in a phone call center type job that I hated, and was like, ‘I want to go be in nature.’ And I applied to do this job and got accepted. I was in Marble Falls, Texas, teaching kids about the outdoors and nature, and I thought that’s what I was going to do for an extended period of my life. But in May of that year, maybe late April, I went hiking with my dad back in San Diego. We hiked up a mountain, and I was just home for like a weekend, and went back to Texas to keep teaching kids about nature. And then I got a call maybe a week or two later that my dad had been diagnosed with cancer, and he ended up having stage four cancer. It was a rare form of liver cancer. When I found that out and did the whole thing where you look it up on Wikipedia to

For the 170th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob do something they haven’t done in awhile and that’s chat about what’s going on in their lives and The Copywriter Club. Plus, they talk about the most popular episodes of the podcast this year—and of all time. Both of them listed a few of their favorites from the past 12 months… if you haven’t listened to all the past year’s episodes, this is a great way to find a few you don’t want to miss. Here’s what they covered: • what’s happening in our lives right now • the goals we have for the coming year • the amazing speaker line-up at The Copywriter Club In Real Life • what makes TCCIRL different from other conferences • what you’ll walk away with if you come to the event • another great resource for reaching your goals—The Copywriter Underground • the new Underground Case Studies • a few specifics about the print newsletter that goes out to all members • the top podcasts from 2019—these are the most listened to episodes • our favorite podcasts from the past year—and a few of our take aways You won’t want to miss this one. Click the play button below to hear it now, or download episode 170 to your podcast app. Want to read it? Scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Club In Real Life Event The Copywriter Underground Case Study Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob: This episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Club In Real Life. our live event in San Diego this March 12th through the 14th. You can get your tickets now at thecopywriterclub.com/tccirl. Kira: Hey, Rob. Rob: Hey, Kira. Kira: Happy 2020. Rob: It’s always a little awkward starting these when we don’t write an intro for ourselves to read about ourselves. But this is an episode where we don’t have a guest. We’re just going to talk amongst ourselves. Yeah, let’s do it. Happy 2020 to you, too. Kira: Yeah, it’s been a while since we’ve chatted and recorded it, even though we chat just about daily. So let’s talk about some podcast episodes that were our favorites from 2019, some of the top most downloaded episodes, some of the ones that have resonated the most with us. But first, let’s just catch up a bit. What’s been new with you, Rob, since, I don’t know, last time we recorded anything? I don’t know what episode that was, but it’s been a while. Rob: It’s definitely been a while since … It’s been even longer since just you and I talked. It’s been a while since we had anything to talk- Kira: It’s been a year. Has it been a year? Rob: Yeah, maybe. It’s been a long time. So you would think that there would be some really big changes over the course of a year. I haven’t done anything as exciting as, say, move, but this year is the first year that I am the only male person in my household. My oldest son is away to college and my youngest son is living in Phoenix on a mission. So the dynamic in my house has changed dramatically without any boys around. It’s a lot quieter. Kira: You’re the only dude. Rob: That’s true. Kira: How has it changed? How is it different at home? Rob: It is a lot quieter. I miss my sons when they’re not here. Obviously, my oldest son comes home from college quite a bit. And so, he’s around. It’s great having older children, but I definitely miss the rowdiness. I didn’t ever think that I would, but I do. I miss the noise and the rowdiness. On the other hand, it’s a lot quieter around here, and so I’m able to get more work done during the day. That is awesome. Kira: Yeah, I’ll send Henry. Henry can spend some time at your house if you need some extra rowdiness. He’ll bring that. Rob: I will take him any day. We can hang out and do Lego and whatever. So what big changes happened for you? Kira: So the biggest change for me over the last year was just moving, moving from New York City to Washington, D.C. So still on the east coast, but it was a pretty big move. I think I always underestimate the toll it takes to move your family and your house to a different city and how long it takes to actually get settled. We’re still getting settled, but it’s been a nice change. It’s been really exciting and just a different energy in the city, and more space in our home too compared to our shoebox apartment in New York City. Overall, I feel like it’s been a really good move. Rob: Yeah. It’s funny, we think about moving day, but there’s no such thing as moving day. It’s like moving year. I moved, I think, 15 years ago at the house we live in now, and there are still boxes in our basement that have stuff stored that we just don’t open. Kira: Yeah, our living room

Messaging expert Michelle Mazur joins Rob and Kira in the studio for the 169th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Michelle started her career as a speech consultant, then pivoted to talking about the 3 Word Rebellion and how a rallying cry can make your business more resilient. We talked about: • how Michelle became a messaging coach and strategist • what a “messaging strategist” actually does on a day-to-day basis • how she lost her “why” and completely changed her business • what a three-word rebellion is and why you need to start one • a real world example how a “three-word rebellion” changes a business • the process for creating your own rallying cry or • the two things a good three-word rebellion (or positioning statement) does • how to make a pivot in your business (and how to message it) • how a three-word rebellion acts as a frame for speaking to your audience • what Michelle has done to overcome the imposter complex • her messaging advice to someone without her credentials • what she would change about the marketing world • how she met the perfect partner with a six minute discussion • what’s next for Michelle in 2020 To hear Michelle’s take on positioning your business in a way that attracts customers to your flag, click the play button below, or subscribe using your favorite podcast app. Or you can scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Three Word Rebellion Jennie Nash Profit Without Worry Podcast Tanya Geisler Michelle’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Transcript is underway…    

NPR Podcaster and story teller, Glynn Washington, was generous enough with his time to visit our studio and share his thoughts about podcasting, storytelling and the hustle required to make something great for the 168th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We love this interview. Here’s a few of the things we talked about with Glynn: • how (and why) he built a career as a podcaster and radio producer • the reaction he got when he announced his intention to be a podcaster • what he did to help his podcasts gain traction—it took a lot of hustle • the very “untechnical” process he used to create his first podcast • how he came to understand the power of a good story • what makes a great story that you can’t help but stop and listen to • how to introduce an unbelievable story and get listeners to lean in • the question every storyteller needs to ask before sharing their story • the important reason Glynn never tells you what the story means • the magician’s trick he uses to get people to talk about the supernatural • the real impact of the stories/experiences shared on his podcasts • the impossibility of choosing the one story he was born to tell • the thing Glynn wishes more podcasters would do today • 3+ things to do if you want to create your own great podcast • the power of a podcast to move markets and create best-selling products • what’s coming next year from Snap Judgment If you want to improve your story-telling prowess, you’ll want to get this episode ASAP. Click the play button below to listen online or download this episode to your podcast app. Even better subscribe so you never miss an episode. Readers can scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Snap Judgment Spooked Podcast Heaven’s Gate Podcast GarageBand Mark Twain Have You Heard George’s Podcast Scott Sigler Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: This episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Club In Real Life, our live event in San Diego March 12th through 14th, 2020. Get your tickets now at thecopywriterclub.com/TCCIRL. Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 168 as we chat with media personality and radio podcast producer, Glynn Washington, about what it takes to tell a great story, the power of podcasting to connect with an audience, what most podcasters including us should be doing differently, and what it means to be a fist-shaker, mountain hollerer, and foot stomper. Kira: So, Glynn, welcome. Glynn: Thank you for having me. Kira: All right. So, Glynn knows, because I’ve already e-mailed him and said, ‘I’m a super fan.’ So I have listened to every episode of Spooked, all three seasons of Spooked. So this is just a delight, to be able to talk to you about what happens behind the scenes and get to know more about you. Rob: And I want to add, I listened to all of the episodes of the Heaven’s Gate podcast, as well as several of the Spooked episodes. So- Kira: So we’re both super fans. Rob: We’re big fans of what you’ve done, Glynn. Glynn: Well, I’m so glad you dug it. And I appreciate you having me on the show today. And I hope, I’m sorry, we had a bit of a flood, here, so I’m in a weird setting. So I’m hoping the sounds works for you right now. Rob: Yeah, it’s working great. It sounds really good. Kira: All right, Glynn. So let’s start with your story. How did you end up as a storyteller, podcaster, executive producer, and host of Snap Judgment and my favorite podcast, Spooked? Glynn: Well, it was not by design. This is something that … an organic unfolding of a lot of different things. But, to make a long story shorter, I have been a public media head for a long time, and I started listening to various shows in the podcast format early on, like, in maybe 2006, ’07, ’08, when I was listening to podcasts before they became, what people think about them today. And I heard an ad for something called the Public Radio Talent Quest. It was Ira Glass and Terry Gross, and I believe a few other people that were saying if you have something called hostiness, you can do this, this public radio thing. And the truth of the matter was, I just wanted to preserve my right to complain. I love public radio, but I thought that a lot of different things that happened were, they weren’t necessarily getting at the communities that I knew anything about, properly. And, for an example, I remember listening to someone, and they were talking to someone who was an African American person, lower social economic status, and they asked

Copywriter Andrea Littell is the guest for the 167th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. As we’ve gotten to know Andrea over the past year and learned more about her accomplishments and struggles, it was obvious we needed to have her join us to talk about her business. This discussion covers a lot of ground, including: • her experience as the “go to” person for marketing and copywriting • why she started a blog—Townies—and what it did for her business • how she attracted attention without a plan or a press kit • why she put her blog on pause and what she’s doing now • how to prepare for personal difficulties when you’re the provider • the place budgeting and knowing your numbers has in your business • how Andrea manages the money in her business • the power of consistency to earn grace from clients when you need it • how to keep the right mindset when everything falls apart • why more money isn’t always the goal for Andrea’s business • working with an agency as a freelancer and the works she does • the thing that matters more than talent when freelancing • her advice to other freelancers who are starting out • what her business looks like today and the kinds of projects she takes on now • boundaries and how she makes space for her family and personal time • the thing that has made the biggest difference in her success so far • how to prepare your biz for a maternity (or paternity) leave To hear the wisdom that Andrea shared, click the play button below, or download this episode to your podcast app. And you can always scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Townies The Copywriter Think Tank Andrea’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Transcript is underway…  

Online Business Manager, Ashlee Berghoff, is our guest for the 166th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Ashlee has helped a bunch of copywriters we know and like figure out how to make their businesses more profitable… and just as importantly, helped them focus on the work they are best at (while shifting other work to a VA or OBM). That sounded like something we needed to hear more about. So we asked Ashee about ….. • how she became an independent business manager/COO for copywriters • the 10 months she spent working to prevent human trafficking at IJM • when you should get help in your copywriting business • the different kinds of VAs and other help you might consider hiring • some examples of how she works with copywriters to grow • the systems she helps her clients develop as they start working together • the importance of discipline as you set up processes in your biz • what it really costs to work with an integrator versus a VA (and what you get) • the easiest systems to build that almost everyone needs right now • the return on investment when you spend money on a VA or OBM • the true cost of doing the work that others could be doing for less • how to keep your VA relationship from falling apart • some of the problems you should anticipate to keep the relationship working • where to find the best VAs… the answer may surprise you • what you need to put into a contract versus email • how to deal with problems when thing inevitably go wrong • the tools Ashlee uses in her business If you have a sneaky suspicion that your business could be doing better and that you need help to make that happen, you’ll want to listen to this episode now. Click the play button below or subscribe using your favorite podcast app. Or scroll down to read a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: International Justice Mission Global Fund to End Modern Slavery Rocketfuel Angie Colie April Dykman Asana Jira Asquaredonline.com Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Kira: What if you’re going to hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the Club for Episode 166 as we chat with business integrator Ashlee Berghoff about how to know when you’re ready to bring in help for your business, the systems and processes copywriters need to grow, practical ways copywriters can expand their capacity and exactly what a VA or OBM can help you do in your business. Kira: Welcome, Ashlee. Rob: Hey Ashlee. Ashlee: Thank you so much for inviting me. It’s wonderful to be here. Kira: Yes, we’re excited to have you here because you worked with, I don’t know- Rob: Everybody. Kira: …six to eight, maybe even more copywriters. You don’t have to name drop all the copywriters, but you’ve worked with a lot of well-known, successful copywriters that we’ve hung out with and we know really well too. So, we’ll get a behind the scenes look at the type of work that you’re doing with them. But before we dig into that, let’s start with your story. How did you end up as an integrator, OBM? I know there are multiple titles for it. Yes, how did this all happen? Ashlee: Yes, so I think as is the case for so many people, it was not a straight line at all. I actually graduated with an English degree and no idea what to do with my life. And in my first major job, I ended up in the Philippines actually working as kind of a de facto recruiter for an anti-trafficking field office there, did that for about 10 months, built out their recruiting program from scratch, which was really fun for me, but I didn’t know why, just that it was a really amazing experience. And then, when I came back to the States, I worked in staffing for and then ended up at a publicly traded financial services consulting firm for a couple of years working in operations and project management there. And as I was doing that, I realized that I loved the type of work that I was doing and I was good at it, but it wasn’t the right industry for me and it wasn’t the right kind of work culture for me. And I was going to school for my MBA at Georgetown in the evenings and as I was getting close to graduating from that, kind of all the pieces started coming together for me. I kind of started realizing, wait, I organized for fun as a kid and I made lesson plans and report cards for my stuffed animals. And that’s not normal for 12-year olds to do. And I loved taking things that were really messy and organizing them and bringing order and calm to them. And the reason I loved my job at IJM was because I got to build templates and checklist

This one is wild. We invited Drayton Bird (who knew and worked with some of the original mad men) to join us for the 165th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Drayton has been around the world of advertising and direct marketing since the 1960s and he has the stories to prove it. As we talked, it occurred to us that if Drayton wasn’t the inspiration for The Most Interesting Man in the World, he probably should have been. We asked Drayton about: • what happened to him the last time he went to San Diego • how he became a successful copywriter—it’s not about creativity • how he spent his teen-age years and why he carried 2 library cards • Why he couldn’t choose a niche when he started writing • the one thing Drayton says you need to be a good copywriter • the intriguing letter he sent to David Ogilvy that got an immediate reply • the 7 big lessons he learned from David Ogilvy • whether being interesting is something we are or something we become • some of the questions he asks to get better creative work • the legacy he has built and the story he shares in his latest book • the bizarre thing his mother saw his father doing in their living room • the time a stripper nearly killed him hitting him in the face with a plate • the Maori princess who broke his heart when she ran off with a Swedish lawyer • his parents’ crazy, loving and destructive relationship • the advice he got from a Polish Count that saved Drayton’s life • what you need to think about constantly if you really want to be really good at copy Like we said, this one is different from any other interview we’ve done. You won’t want to miss it. Click the play button below to listen (or download the episode to your favorite podcast player), or scroll down to read a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The VW Snowplow Ad David Ogilvy Ogilvy on Advertising Drayton’s Biography (read this page) Drayton’s Book Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: This episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Club, In Real Life, our live event in San Diego, March 12th through 14th. Get your tickets now at thecopywriterclub.com/tccirl. Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode 165 as we chat with one of the original Mad Men, copywriter Drayton Bird about his place among the original Mad Men of advertising, what all copywriters need to master to make their writing better, getting stabbed three times and surviving, and the good advice he got from a Polish count many years ago. Rob: Hey Drayton. Kira: Welcome Drayton. Drayton: Nice to talk to you. And I’ll tell you something. I got involved in my most sad most expensive marriage to one of the ladies who did have a go at sticking a knife in me. Well, she didn’t ever go, she didn’t stick a knife in me, because I was in San Diego. It was all your fault. I’d been doing a speech in Los Angeles and afterward, I went with some friends and we made our way down the coast staying somewhere terribly expensive. I can’t remember. And then we went to San Diego Zoo and had one or two drinks and my friends said, ‘Let’s go down to Mexico.’ And so we went down to the Mexican border to a dangerous town. I think, I believe one of the most dangerous places in Mexico. And that’s where I got married as a result of being intoxicated. Kira: That’s a romantic, romantic story. Rob: So are you telling us you’re not going to come to San Diego for our event? Is that what you’re saying here? Too dangerous? Drayton: Can’t afford to come twice. Tijuana, that was where it was. I remember I was driving into Tijuana. No, I looked on the left on the side, it said that you can get married immediately. I was on the right-hand side going on. And on the left-hand side, it said divorce within 24 hours. I thought, ‘What can I possibly lose?’ And I said to this lady, who is actually the widow of my best friend who had killed himself. Well, that’s another story. I said, ‘Let’s get married.’ And she said, ‘You’re kidding.’ I said, ‘No.’ I said, ‘This is a limited time offer.’ I said, ‘You’ve got to make up your mind before six o’clock.’ So she said, ‘What can we use for a ring’ And I said, ‘You can use the ring of Martin,’ who was my best friend, who had been her husband who killed himself. And then she said, ‘What should we wear? What should I wear?’ I didn’t bother about what I was wearing. I don’t know whether you’ve ever tried to shop some Tijuana, looking for something really elegant, but it’s not easy. Ro

Want to get better at copy? Copywriter and author, Glenn Fisher, joined us for the 164th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast to talk about how he became a copywriter and how he rapidly improved his skills. Today, Glenn teaches other how to start and get better at copywriting on his podcast, in speeches, and in his book. We asked Glenn about: • how copywriting overtook his dream of becoming a bank manager • pitching everyone in London before finding his first job • what he learned from his early mentors that helped him most • Glenn’s process for finding (and testing out) a great idea • the difference between the UK and the USA when it comes to ideas • the lessons he took away from his Tony Robbins experience • whether or not copy and advertising can change a person’s beliefs • the no-secret, “secrets” Glenn has used to grow his skill set • what his business looks like and how he spends his time • the catalyst for writing his book and the process he followed • what he would do differently if he were rewriting his book again • what the book has done to build his credibility and why that’s NOT enough • what he struggles with in his business today • what he would do if he lost everything and had to start over from scratch • why other copywriters aren’t your competition We also asked Glenn about the future of copywriting and where marketing is headed right now. To hear this interview, click the play button below, or download the episode to your favorite podcast app. Or scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Agora Tony Robbins The End of America Alex Mandossian AWAI Proust The Art of the Click Mary Ellen Tribby Kate Toon All Good Copy Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: This episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Club, In Real Life, our live event in San Diego, March 12th through 14th. Get your tickets now at thecopywriterclub.com/tccirl. Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the Club for episode 164 as we chat with copywriter and podcaster Glenn Fisher about becoming a direct-response copywriter and writing a book about it, what it takes to write good copy, his writing processes, mistakes he’s made, and what he thinks the future of copywriting looks like. Kira: Welcome, Glenn. Rob: Hi, Glenn. Glenn: Hello. Thanks for having me. Kira: So, let’s kick this off with your story. How did you end up as a copywriter/author/speaker? Let’s hear your story. Glenn: Cool. So, yeah, we’ll break it down into parts. As is the case with most copywriters, I got into it completely by mistake. I think I’ve spoken to you about one out of a thousand copywriters who went, ‘I’m going to be a copywriter.’ I started out as an accountant, which was an obvious mistake, but I did that for a few years and so I wanted to be a bank manager. I’ve never met anyone else who, as a 15-year-old kid, wanted to be a bank manager, but that’s what I wanted to do. And I was going along on that path for a while until something snapped in my brain and went wrong, or maybe right, depending on which way you look at it, and I figured I wanted to do writing in some form. So, I ended up… I knew I couldn’t just walk into a job and go, ‘Hey, I’m a writer now. Hope you might employ me,’ so I went back to uni. I was probably 22-ish, something around that mark. Went back to uni and did a creative writing course, a degree, here in England. I did that and then I come from a very small town in the Northeast of England where they barely can read, let alone write, so I had to move to the big city, to London, and get a job, and I applied for as many writing jobs as I could, anything that said Junior Writer, I applied for. And the only place where I managed to get an interview, let alone any response, was a company that at the time I had little to no idea who they were or what they did, but it was a company called Agora, which many of your listeners will be familiar with, especially in US. And they had an office in London. I applied for a junior writer job and got the job. Still, for probably at least three months sat in an office in London with direct-response sales letters all around me, not knowing what the hell was going on, whether… what any of this meant. Didn’t know really what a copywriter was, but obviously, as you guys will know, having entered that world, I’d kind of, very luckily, struck the jackpot as far as learning to be a copywriter goes. So, it’s purely chance that I discovered copywriting. I got this job at Agora and then from there obviously I

Email copywriter Sarah Henson is our guest for the 163rd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We first met Sarah a couple of years ago (at a copywriter conference) and have seen her make big changes in her business in the past year as a member of The Copywriter Think Tank. We asked Sarah about her successes, her struggles and how she’s pushed herself to accomplish more—even as she’s faced some big challenges in her life and business. We talked about: • Sarah’s career path from actress to coach to email tech to copywriter • her experience as an actress and how it helps her as a writer • the “method actor” approach to understanding customers • owning the title of copywriter and how she made the switch • how she chose her niche (or how it chose her) • some of the hurdles Sarah’s overcome on her way to the next level • the big goals she’s set and what she wants to accomplish next • what keeps her going especially when she struggles to make things work • the mindset shift she’s experienced over the past 10 months • a breakdown of the work she did to hit $11K in a single month • comparison-itis and how Sarah has made sure it won’t hold her back • struggles with balance and how to fit it all in • the difference a community or mastermind can make in business • what she’s building in her business right now To get this one in your ear holes, click the play button below. To make sure you never miss an episode, subscribe on your favorite podcast app. And to read a full transcript, scroll down the page a bit.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Big Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts and ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode 163 as we chat with email strategist and e-commerce copywriter, Sarah Henson, about the struggle of freelancing and having her biggest revenue month ever, building an effective email strategy, what she’s done to take her business to the next level, and how her past life as an actor has made her a better copywriter. Welcome, Sarah. Sarah: Hey. Rob: Hi, Sarah. Sarah: Hey there. Kira: Great to have you here. Sarah. Let’s just kick this off with your story. How did you end up in e-commerce and as an email strategist and a copywriter? Sarah: Well, it’s kind of a convoluted story, which I think pretty much everybody who’s been on your podcast says it’s been a bit of a weaving tale, but to me, yeah, you touched on it, that I was an actress for about 12 years. And when I say actress, it’s not like I was super famous or anything like that. I was in the trenches, doing all of the auditions here, there and everywhere, getting gigs every now and again, but for 12 years, I was constantly going towards my goal and always getting little jobs here and there that just kept me going and kept me fueled all the time. But then, as I got into my 30s, things started to change, and my priorities changed. I met someone and we ended up getting married and having children and the life of an actor going for auditions all the time and being available for tours and gigs and things like that is not really conducive to life as a mother, so I decided that it was high time that I had to kind of switch gears. And I actually ended up starting my own actors’ agency, because I knew a lot of what goes on in the industry and how it works and everything. And I thought I could be really helpful to help other actors to get work. So, I started an agency. I ran that for about three years. And that was mildly successful. But I kind of, I think it was necessary for me to be able to kind of segue from acting, which was my passion, and I still have a little bit of a yearning deep down when I watch some stuff on TV and in the movies that was like, oh, that could have been me. But it was a way for me to let go of that big dream that I had of winning an Oscar one day and so I actually got to see a little bit more of the other side of the business, which wasn’t quite as pretty. So, it allowed me to let go of that dream. And then after, I decided to close the business down because it just wasn’t generating the revenue that I wanted. I kind of switched gears again, did a business degree. And then I found the online world, which for many people is kind of like a rabbit hole, where you go down and you find there’s so many different things that you can do and the possibilities of what online business can actually bring you. And I ended up going into coaching. I’d never coached before. I’d never done any coach train

Leadership coach, Tanya Geisler, is our guest for the 162nd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. It’s been more than 2 years since we spoke to Tanya last (all about the Imposter Complex) and we thought it was time to check back in and see what other issues she could help us deal with. And we’re glad we did. We asked Tanya about: • what’s changed since we talked to her 2 years ago • the behaviors that hold us back from accomplishing our mission • the difference between anxiety, criticism and imposter complex—and why it matters • how our deeply held values sometimes hold us back (and real world examples of how that works) • the unshakeable confidence framework • how to take ownership of what is holding us back so we can make progress • overcoming the lies of the imposter complex (it’s not a linear process) • how to find our own brand(s) of joy • Tanya workshopped this a bit for Rob a bit while we talked • what happens when we have the wrong perception of our brand of joy • Tanya and Kira talked through her “word” and why Kira didn’t like it at first • what you can do to figure this stuff out for yourself • how to choose a coach who will help you become a better version of yourself • how copywriters can take on the role of a leader We also asked Tanya about how someone can work with her and her thoughts about the future of copywriting and online marketing. To hear what she said about all of the above, click the play button below or download this episode to your favorite podcast player. Rather read what she said? Then scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Our first interview with Tanya (47) TanyaGeisler.com Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 162, as we chat for a second time with leadership coach Tanya Geisler, about what she’s been doing since our last interview more than two years ago, the importance of embracing joy, building unshakable confidence, what to look for when you’re hiring a coach and the thing that separates those who reach their full potential from those who don’t. Kira: Welcome, Tanya. Rob: Hey Tanya. Tanya: Hey. I’m so happy to be here, and honored. Thank you both so much. Kira: Yeah, we’re very excited to have you back for a second time. Your interview, number 47, is one of my favorite interviews on this entire show and I think just surprised both of us just with the impact it’s had in the copywriter community after we talked about the impostor complex and dug into that. So we’ll definitely link to that conversation, but we want to know really like what you’ve been up to since then over the last two years. So we can talk about a lot of what you’re teaching and talking about today. Tanya: Oh, what I’ve been doing in the last two years? I can tell you what I’ve been doing today, but the last two years, Oh my goodness. I’ve been doing a lot of speaking. I’ve been doing a lot of deepening into this body of work that I’ve been called to really understand. I’ve created a framework from which I’m really understanding the impostor complex, and I launched my own podcast called Ready Enough, which is really looking at all of the places perfectionism and gets up in our grill and insists that we do things perfectly right. But really it’s also about taking the conversation about the impostor complex and getting under when it might not be the impostor complex, because I’ve spent so much time, I think I might’ve even said this in our interview two years ago, that for me I’m like, I used to say that I’m like the Greek father in My Big Fat Greek Wedding and I can bring everything back to the imposter complex and over the speaking of the doing and the deepening of the doing with my work, I really, sometimes it’s not the impostor complex. Sometimes it’s a fear of fat phobia or transphobia or it’s racism, it’s systemic issues that are at play. So I’m really trying to be much more nuanced about it, and continuing to dig into what we do about the impostor complex when it shows up. That’s what I’ve been up to. Rob: Well, let’s dig into that just a little bit and we don’t need to rehash the discussion we had on imposter complex because that was already a great interview and you walked us through all of the ways that that can show up in our lives and some of the tools that we need to have in our toolbox in order to deal with it. But can we go a littl

Speaking coach and consultant, Lanie Presswood, is our guest for the 161st episode of The Copywriter Club podcast. Lanie coached both of us (Kira and Rob) as we scripted and delivered our presentations at our copywriting event, The Copywriter Club In Real Life. We asked Lanie to join us to talk about public speaking, what to do (and not do) on stage and this long list of other topics we covered: • her journey to becoming a public speaker and speaking consultant • some of Lanie’s early successes • the time Rob ruined Hillary Weiss’ presentation at TCCIRL • how to deal with stage fright when getting up to speak • the best ways to prepare a presentation that an audience wants to see • how to “lay out” a presentation to get attention and persuade • the 5 parts of a speech: definitions, scope, explanation, description, illustration • the biggest mistake presenters make when giving a speech • what a speaker can expect from the audience • physicality—what to do with your hands and body as you speak • things you should never do as a speaker • whether you should play a “role” on stage (you don’t have to be Gary V) • developing the “skill” of public speaking… no one is born an expert • Lanie’s advice to anyone who thinks they don’t have anything to talk about • whether or not you should write out your speech ahead of time • the difference between video presentations and live presentations We also asked Lanie about the future of public speaking (a little twist on the question we usually end with). To learn more about how you can use public speaking to grow your authority, click the play button below, or download the episode to your favorite podcast player. Readers scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Hillary Weiss Presswood Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode 161 as we chat with professor, communications expert, and public speaking consultant Lanie Presswood about speaking from the stage, what makes a good presentation, the simple things we can do to communicate more clearly, and how to avoid the worst mistakes speakers make. Welcome, Lanie. Lanie: Hello. Thank you so much for having me here. Kira: I feel like this was a long time coming. Especially considering you helped both of us with our presentations at TCC In Real Life this past year. So, we’re excited to dig into that and talk more about you and your story. Let’s kick it off with your story. How did you end up as a public speaking consultant and professor? Lanie: So, I got into competitive speech and debate as a high schooler. And I was very bent on being a journalist at this point in time. I’m about 15, very, very opinionated, have lots of thoughts, and I think I’m going to storm down the doors of a newsroom somewhere in the nebulous future and right away they’re going to hire me to just take on big names and bash in some skulls and change the world. This was my vision for myself. So, I knew that to do that I needed to get into a good college and therefore I needed a lot of extracurriculars. But unfortunately, I was really not particularly physically gifted and therefore I was really looking for a lot of things to do that didn’t involve me having to go outside and run. I also wanted to get away from the legacy of my older brothers. Two years older than me, and he was very talented and very smart and extremely popular. So, I was really trying to find something to do at that point in my high school career that would just belong to me. And that’s how I wandered into forensics, which is speech and debate, not cutting apart dead bodies and investigating crime scenes for the purposes of the next hour. And I was terrible. So, so bad. I just had paralyzing stage fright whenever I had to get up in front of people. Would turn this bright purple color. It’s a flush that started in my chest and kind of worked its way up my face. My hands would shake, my knees would knock, my voice would shake. Just all the sights and sounds of terrible public speaking. I was so, so bad. But, I started to learn very slowly, a little bit about what different audiences and different types of judges were looking for, about what was consistent across every different kind of speaking occasion and what sort of changed every time you stood up in front of a different group of people. But I got to the end of my high school career and I was like all right, I’ve learned things, I have improved, I’ve started to gently chip away at that stage fright, but I think

Brand expert and one-woman SNL skit, Rachael Kay Albers is our guest for the 160th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Fitting all the characters Rachael plays on her YouTube channel into the TCC studio wasn’t easy, but we managed. In addition to meeting several of the characters from her show (hey, Rachael’s mom and Brad!), we also talked about: • how she went from law school to business comedian and content writer • how Rachael found her first clients (it has to do with cam shafts and pepper spray) • going from small clients to internet sensation (wigs played a part) • what she did to grow her authority and get attention • how her internet show has helped her grow her business • the time required to produce a high-quality video show • the simplicity of her earlier shows and how she evolved as she got better • the different characters who show up on Rachael’s show • the truth about how comfortable Rachael is on every show • how to use comparison, exaggeration and specifics to be funny • brand strategy and what Rachael does for her clients • how she helps clients discover a brand that reflects who they really are • the questions to think through as you develop your own brand • the tools she uses to help her clients develop really good content • how she collaborates with the different people on her team • the other tactics she’s used to grow her business (besides the web show) • the mistakes copywriters are making when it comes to marketing We also talked about speaking on stage, the change she’s making to her business moving forward, and the future of copywriting. Want to hear it? Click the play button below or subscribe with your favorite podcast app. Prefer to read? Scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Upwork Awkward Marketing Laura Belgray Justin Blackman Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee Basecamp Dubsado Amy Porterfield’s Digital Course Academy Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 160 as we chat with content strategist and business comedian, Rachael Kay Albers about how she became the One-Woman Saturday Night live of business comedy, what it takes to build an unforgettable brand, the different kinds of humor that copywriters can tap into for themselves and their clients and creating content that people want to see. Kira: Hey Rachael. Rob: Hey Rachael. Rachael: Well, hey there. How are you doing? Kira: Welcome. I feel like I ever wrote the same for recorded that. I feel like I’m in the room with the celebrity, like an SNL celebrity. Rob: Or 10 celebrities. 10 different celebrities. Rachael: It’s so mutual. Yeah, there’s about 30 of us here. I got wigs and for every voice I do I’m putting on in different wigs. So just imagine that. Kira: You’ve got great wigs and great costumes, which I definitely want to talk about. But let’s kick this off with your story. How did you end up as a creative director / digital strategist / business comedian? Rachael: Well, I kind of came at it backwards. Because, the whole thing these days is… The dream is to quit your day job and go live in a beautiful place and drink Margaritas in a hammock. But I actually did kind of the opposite way. I was in law school, 10 years ago and it wasn’t working out. It was a bad move. It was the wrong choice. And I had done an internship in Southern Mexico, where I kind of learned about this type of theater that was being used as a tool for social change. And I was really attracted to that. So I decided to move to Mexico. And in order to do this non-profit work with theater and the arts and youth, and while I was there, I’m like, okay, so how do I stay here? I do I get some tacos. How do I keep doing this thing? I had a background in marketing, I had a background in coding and design. And so, I decided to kind of hang my shingle. But it wasn’t because I wanted to be an entrepreneur. It wasn’t because I was wanting to be a digital nomad. It was because I wanted to keep living in Mexico doing that work. And kind of fell in love with entrepreneurship. In the beginning I did not care about my business. I was like, whatever. I didn’t care about the online marketing world. I did my things, shut off my computer and I was done living my life. But along the journey, I kind of fell in love with doing this work and running my own, what became a mini agency and… So that’s all she wrote. Here we are today. Rob: Yeah. So before we jump all the way to where we are today, I’

Copywriter Matt Hall joins us in the studio for the 159th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Matt is a member of The Copywriter Think Tank and has a ton of experience as a copywriter and agency owner. He’s worked in-house, as an agency employee, and has started his own agency—twice. Here’s what we talked about: • the high school experience that made him want to know everything • how he decides what he needs to learn next—without the stress of keeping up • getting permission to be different and not live up to other’s expectations • the system he uses to stay up-to-date on his favorite topics • why he made the shift from eternal student to content writer and strategist • working with a variety of clients • why he likes to do a lot of different kinds of work • the different roles a copywriter can choose (and why to do each one) • his biggest struggle as a business owner • his $30K month and the work he had to deliver • the challenge and benefit of working with a spouse • his system for managing all the house-hold stuff so work gets done • the practice that keeps him from having a scarcity mindset • how he attracts clients to his freelance business • his thoughts about the trends in conversion copy and design This is a good discussion you definitely don’t want to miss. To hear it, click the play button below or subscribe with your favorite podcast app. You’ll find a full transcript below.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kajabi Rob Braddock The Dunning Krueger Effect Prerna Malik Linda Perry Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript:   Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for Episode 159 as we chat with copywriter and all-around renaissance man, Matt Hall, about how he became a copywriter, different roles copywriters can take on and how they all compare, conversion design, what it is and how copywriters should think about conversion, and what Matt has done to bring business in the door for his agency. Welcome, Matt. Matt: Hi. Really happy to be here. Kira: Yeah. Great to have you. I have this huge smile on my face and I don’t know if it’s the cold Chinese food I’m eating or if it’s just … I’m so excited to hang out with you. So let’s kick this off with your story. How did you end up as a renaissance man/conversion, optimization socialist/copywriter/many other things? Matt: All of the things. I’m hoping more of a jack of all trades rather than a master of none. But it started back in high school and I overheard a conversation when I was like, 14. And some of my classmates were talking about one of our friends saying, ‘She is so interesting. She can talk about literally anything, like your car’s dashboard and she knows about it.’ And something about the idea of being able to engage with somebody over literally any topic at any given time and actually know what you’re talking about really connected with me. And that stuck with me, even when I was an undergrad, I did a master’s in English with the focus on professional writing, but I got … I built my own minor. It was a combination of graph design and PR and building documents with tech and just combining a whole bunch of things. I ended up having something like 200 credits when they finally kicked me out school and said, ‘You got to graduate, dude. It’s time to go.’ And then I went and got a Master’s in American studies which is another field that’s like combining a few different fields. American studies lives on the edge of English but also history and a little bit of psychology or whatever you want to do. So I’ve always been really interested and gravitated towards the kind of work where you can apply knowledge and experience from a lot of different areas and put it together towards making a project even more successful than it could have been maybe if you had one singular focus. So now that I’m doing copywriting/web development/CRO/UX, all the stuff put together, it turned out to be a really … a great way for me to bring my passions to life, keep my work interesting. And also, I think bring a better experience to my clients and the people I work with. Rob: So before we jump into how you made the switch to copywriter from student, can you talk just a little bit about, you have a framework for learning. How do you decide what you want to learn next or how you take what you’re learning and you apply it to become the renaissance person and jack of all trades so that that information becomes useful and whatever it is that you&#82

Samar Owais, content expert and email copywriter is our guest for the 158th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. This one has been a long time coming… this is our fourth attempt to make this interview happen and it is worth the wait. Kira and Rob ask Samar about a lot of stuff from email to being the only person at TCCIRL with a hijab. Here’s the list of what we asked: • how Samar built her content business and charged $1000 per blog post • what content writers should be doing to build their business • why she “transitioned” from content to conversion-oriented email copy • what she does to find clients for her business right now • what email sequences should use in their business • the 4 phases of her process and what she accomplishes in each phase • the things she struggles within her business • how she storyboards emails to make sure the sequence does what it should • how she tracks her success—and gets access to all of her client’s numbers • why she offers to help implement the emails she writes • how she packages her services and what she charges for an engagement • her writing process and how she applies her strategy to each project • the impact of the pivot—from content to email—on her business • her experience attending TCCIRL last year (and why you should go this year) • what she experienced as the only hijab-wearing Muslim woman at the event and why we need more people from all backgrounds at all copywriting events • how she deals with self-sabotage and how we can stop doing that to ourselves • who she relies on to help her get things done • her advice for anyone who wants to specialize in email copy • what’s next for Samar in her business Like we wrote above, this one is worth the wait. To hear all the advice Samar had to share, Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. Or download the episode to your favorite podcast app (and don’t forget to subscribe so you won’t miss future episodes).   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Paul Jarvis Copyblogger Copyhackers Val Geisler Prerna Malik Eman Zabi TCCIRL The Copywriter Underground Chanti Zak Samar’s website Samar’s Twitter Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal and idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the Club for episode 158 as we chat with copywriter, Samar Owais about going from $5 blog posts to assignments that pay more than 50 times that much today. How she finds good clients, willing to pay her rates. What she did to write for clients like Copyblogger, Men with Pens, and Mercy, and how she stays productive while raising a young family. Hey, Samar. Kira: Samar, welcome. Samar: Hi, guys, how are you? Kira: So good, so good to talk to you. This has been a long time in the making. I think this is our fourth attempt to make this interview happen, but I’m feeling, I think we’re all feeling good. This is going to happen and we’re really excited to talk to you today. So, let’s just kick off with your story. How did you end up as an email copywriter? Samar: Mostly through trial and error. So, before I was an email copywriter, I was a content writer. I spent about eight years building my business and authority. Wrote for clients like Paul Jarvis, and big brands like Marriott and Intercontinental. Got published in places like Copyblogger and Founder. My business as a content writer was at a pretty sweet spot, to be honest. But then, three things happened. One, I got more interested in pursuing the ROI of the content that I was writing, but my clients weren’t. Two, I hit the ceiling at $1,000 a blog post, and couldn’t seem to find clients willing to pay me more than that. And the ones that were paying me a thousand dollars expected the sun and the moon, without measuring the ROI again, so this was really frustrating. And three, I’d begun to hate waking up in the morning and writing content. There was just no joy in my workday anymore, and I thought I was just burned out. So, as I was grappling with all this when Joanna Wiebe, Copyhackers launched her 10X Freelance Copywriter Course. I figured if there was one person who could help me break the $1000 ceiling and teach me how to convince clients to measure the ROI of the content that they were publishing online, it was Joanna. So, as I worked through the course, I realized that it wasn’t that I was burned out, it was that I was just no longer interested in writing content anymore. And that’s when I started experimenting with writing other kinds of copy. I tried my hand at landing pages, hated that. I tried writing a sales

Copywriter and expert cold emailer, Laura Lopuch, is our guest for the 157th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. In this interview, Kira, Rob and Laura covered a lot of ground when it comes to what to say when you’re cold pitching new prospects. Here’s a pretty good list of what we covered: • the path Laura took from paralegal to copywriter • what made her decide it was time for a job change • how she attracted her first clients when she went out on her own • how to cold pitch effectively • the difference between personalization and relevance and why it matters • the thing that no one talks about when it comes to cold emails • what Laura does BEFORE she starts to write a cold pitch • why you might need to indulge your inner stalker when you cold pitch • how to tell if a potential client is ready to invest in what you can offer • the best way to phrase the call to action so you get results • the subject lines that work well—Laura’s “backslash secret” • the ways a cold pitch email differs from a regular email to your list • how she figured out the niche to focus on in her business • the basics of a good presentation and how it all comes together • why she doesn’t focus her mentorship on learning • how she became a travel hacker so she could travel for free • where Laura thinks copywriting will go in the future • the templates she used to land +$20K in business If that seems like a lot, it is. And it’s good stuff. To hear this interview, click the play button below or subscribe to The Copywriter Club Podcast using your favorite podcast app. And if you prefer to read, you can scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Crystalknows Copyhackers Shine Bootcamp MicroConf Hayley Hopson Tarzan Kay thepointsguy.com Laura’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode 157 as we chat with email copywriter, Laura Lopuch about why she loves writing emails, the worst mistakes we make when writing emails, the relevancy method and how to structure a cold pitch so potential clients become actual clients, and how she became a travel hacker. Kira: Welcome Laura. Rob: Hey Laura. Laura: Thanks guys for having me. I’m very excited to be here. Kira: Yeah, we’re excited to chat and we want to kick this off with your story. So how did you end up as a copywriter? Laura: I took a long detour through the legal field. I thought I wanted to be a lawyer. You can blame Jerry Maguire and all those awesome John Grisham novels and all that kind of stuff for it. I just thought, yeah, this would be cool. I like arguing. I could be a lawyer. So I did something smart and actually took a job at a law firm to see real world experience if A, I wanted to be a lawyer, before I spent B, all that money to get a fancy dancy law degree. Fast forward a couple of years and I figured out no, I didn’t want to be a lawyer. But it was a really good job and I was learning a lot. I really liked the stories. We were a civil defense law firm. For example, if you get in a car accident, we were usually the insurance for the law firm that your insurance company would hire to defend you against the plaintiff, the person who’s suing you. So I got to see some really interesting cases and stories. People do some crazy, crazy stuff, let me tell you. But I got seduced by a steady paycheck and a good job, until I just couldn’t take it anymore and I quit. And so at that point I was like, I don’t want to go back and deal with lawyers. I was kind of tired of that industry. I knew I wanted to work for myself. I was tired of being under a boss. So I was kind of taking stock of the skills that I had. I’ve always been a writer. Majored in English lit and it came in really handy working at the law firm. That analysis brain type, putting things together, examining things, keeping track of details and writing killer emails to persuade people to do stuff that they really didn’t want to do. Because who out there wants to actually work with a lawyer, even if it’s your own lawyer? Nobody. So I was writing a lot of emails that were convincing people to do things that they really didn’t want to do. Like show up and testify at trial, maybe hunt down documents from like five years ago, sort through that old closet and find some stupid document. And I was doing a lot of it by email because number one, I hate the phone. Hate the phone. Took me two weeks one time to schedule a 10-minute meeting for my job. And I was supposed to do it. It was

Sometimes we like to try a little something different with the podcast and today’s interview is a bit different than our standard. Preacher, coach and copywriter Les Hughes is our guest for the 156th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We talked to Les about ….. • how awesome, giving and kind Kira is • the path from preacher to business coach • what he did to build his platform as he pivoted his “business” • having the right mindset before you make a shift • trusting the process (and mentors and a higher power) • what he would have done differently—and faster—if he did it again • the tactics that helped him move forward quickly • what he does today and the success he has found • what copywriters can do to build their own authority to serve their own clients • why you need to create a success path for your clients • how to get your clients to help you serve them more effectively • the importance of humility • how he helps his own clients thing more strategically • Les’ writing process and what helps him improve his writing • how to prepare for adversity (but hope for the best) • the place service to others plays in a successful business To hear it all, download this episode to your favorite podcast player or click the play button below. If you’re a reader, scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Ray Edwards Mel Abraham Stu McLaren Tribe Jim Rohn Zig Ziglar Joni Eareckson Tada (athlete, painter) Les’ website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Kira: What if you can hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for Episode 156 as we chat with preacher, business coach and strategist Les Hughes about his surprising career path, how we can think more strategically about our own businesses, what he does to help his clients transform their businesses and the power of volunteer work to change lives. Kira: Welcome, Les. Rob: Hey, Les. Les: Thank you all both. Kira, great to talk with you again. Rob, great to talk with you as well. I really look forward to our conversation today. Kira: It’s so great to hear your voice. We met in Ray Edward’s Mastermind last year and it was so great to meet you. I’m just happy to hang out with you for the next hour because it’s been a while since we’ve chatted. Let’s kick this off with your story, Les. How did you end up as a preacher, a pastor to pastors, a coach, a strategist to business leaders, a copywriter and many other things? Les: I will do that and thank you for asking. Before I do, I’d like to share if I could take a point of peripheral privilege, so I’m going to ask for forgiveness rather than permission, okay? Kira, the people that know you are going to know what I’m going to say, but maybe new listeners or those that only listen to your podcast. Kira: You’re making me nervous. Les: Well, don’t be. It’s going to be good. Listen, it’s going to be a little uncomfortable for you, but that’s all right. I want your audience to know what a giving and servant-hearted person you are genuinely. I think that doesn’t come always across on your podcast because you’re also very professional and objective and friendly and all of that. You’re a very organized person, but I want the people that are listening this to know that you are one of the most giving, kind, empathetic people in this space that I’ve met. I just wanted to say that. I don’t know if I’ve ever told you that, but I wanted you to know that. Les: When we began our relationship in the mastermind group together, you were certainly further ahead than many of us in terms of your business. Boy, you came into that group with a servant’s heart and have been so helpful to me personally. Thank you for the things that you’ve done. Now- Rob: It’s nice praise. Les: I’ll be glad to tell the story. Kira: Thank you, Les. That’s very kind of you. Les: You’re welcome. I began sensing as a very young adult, actually probably a senior in high school, that there was something pulling on me. I realized later on it was someone and that was God. I just felt as if there was a sense of calling on my life to do something in terms of ministry. I had grown up in that environment. Both of my parents were faithful followers of Jesus. That was the environment that I was raised in. As I got to making those decisions on my own, it began to become my faith and not just my parents’ faith. I did not believe it first that that was going to be pastorate because by nature I’m a m

Marketing OG, Nigel Stevens, is our guest for the 155th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Nigel is in the middle of a move from Asia to Spain and we caught him as he was packing his bags to talk about the business he’s built, his experience in content marketing and SEO, and maybe most interesting… how to raise your prices and up level the clients you work with. Here’s what we covered… • how he turned an English degree into a position as the marketing OG • why he left a cushy job in San Francisco to create his best job • what it takes to build an agency from the ground up • the early days… how he started finding clients and growing his leverage • how he grew his confidence charging more money • value based pricing and getting better referrals • his discovery and proposal process and what he wants to learn • how to build your portfolio of clients (most copywriters won’t do this) • what’s working (and not working) right now in content marketing • how he figures out what kind of content to create for clients • what copywriters need to know about SEO (Nigel’s answer surprised us) • how he helps clients understand the right approach to SEO content • how he’s built his authority to engender trust with his clients • the future of content marketing It’s a good discussion that will get you thinking about the kind of business you’re building and the next steps. To hear it, click the play button below, or download the episode to your favorite podcast player. Readers can scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Nigel’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, the work processes, and their habits, then steal and idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode 155 as we chat with marketing specialist, Nigel Stevens, about what it takes to build a marketing agency, what copywriters need to know about SEO, building authority, attracting, and working with really big clients, and what it’s like to live and work in Barcelona. Kira: Welcome, Nigel. Nigel: Thanks, great to be here. Kira: Yeah, great to have you here, and we’re going to see you in just a couple weeks in Barcelona because you will be presenting at our Think Tank retreat, so excited to meet you in person. Until then, we can get to hear all about your story today. So why don’t you share your story and how you ended up as the marketing OG? Nigel: Yeah, so it’s a little bit of a winding story as it tends to go. So, I got an English degree, got out of school, realized I had no idea what I wanted to do, somehow found my way into a job doing copywriting for this weird mattress startup that no longer exists anymore. And then, I got a job offer to be a SEO analyst, which I was exactly zero percent qualified to do. But I somehow got the job, and I went from being more of a kind of writer and qualitative marketer to then having to also pick up some quantitative skills, and then I had a couple more jobs, worked at BigCommerce for a while, e-commerce platform doing kind of a combination of SEO and content marketing. And then, after a little while there, I decided I kind of wanted to blow up my life. So, I left my job, moved to Thailand and then started taking on work. And it escalated quickly, one thing led to another. And now, I have a team, and we work with various SaaS clients and other companies. So that’s the summary. Rob: Yes, quick summary, but can we talk a little bit about at least this last section of your career, building an agency and what has taken to do that? I’m sure we can ask other questions about some of the stuff you’ve done earlier, but really curious, what does it take to build an agency that big companies are willing to work with? Nigel: Yeah, so I guess to… you got to put one foot in front of the other, and the first foot is you have to have a connection to something. So, when I’d left BigCommerce, they were still really interested in working with me, and that was my first thing. And then, through a couple people I knew there, someone hit me up and said, ‘Hey, do you want to help with this site?’ And I really didn’t even know when I’d left my job, how much do I want to work anymore? I was sort of totally willing to do everything or nothing. I didn’t really know. And then, I got an intro and started working on one thing. And then, as I got one more intro, I reached this little inflection point where I was like, ‘Okay, I’ve said yes to things because they’re really cool opportunities, and if I want to say yes to anything else, my time does not scale linearl

Copywriter and expert researcher, Hannah Shamji, joins us in the ultra-plush Copywriter Club studio for our 154th episode. Hannah has been making a name for her self doing research for Copyhackers Agency and we wanted to learn more about how she does it. We asked Hannah about: • how she went from boring public policy to copywriter and research specialist • The catalyst for making her career change • how her previous experience helped her make the jump more quickly • the first steps she took as a new copywriter (and started looking for clients) • what it feels like to find clients when you don’t know everything yet • Hannah’s research process… goals, questions, hypothesis • how to define the goals for research so you know what’s most important • the kinds of data she looks for as she does her research • the one thing she always does when asking questions • two things you can do immediately that will help you do research better • the mistakes most copywriters make when conducting research • the bad questions you probably shouldn’t ask • how to get clients excited about research • what you don’t know (that you should know) about interviews Want to improve your research chops. Then add this one to your favorite podcast app. Or click the play button below. If you prefer reading, scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The copywriter therapist post Hannah’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 154 as we chat with conversion copywriter Hannah Shamji about how she became a copywriter, the best way to get good voice of customer data, how to conduct a great interview, her role at Copy Hackers, and how psychology makes her a better copywriter. Kira: Hey, Hannah. Welcome. Rob: Hey, Hannah. Hannah: Thank you. Hey, guys. Kira: All right, Hannah. This conversation has been a long time coming. We’ve had to reschedule a couple times, but we’re really excited to chat with you and really dig into some of your processes around research and experiences. But before we do that, let’s kick it off with your story, how did you become a copywriter and researcher? Hannah: Yeah, for sure. Well, I’m super excited to be here thanks for having me on. My story is kind of meandering as I feel a lot of folks are. I have a bachelor’s in psychology, a master’s in public health and jumped into public health policy and research. So pretty heavy in the academic side of research, and kind of government policy development, pretty boring words to most folks, myself included. And I think it was about like five-ish years ago that I… Maybe four years ago, and I just kind of pump the brakes, looked up the clock. It was 10:08, I remember the time exactly and decided I was just going to quit. So I handed in my resignation the next day and had zero idea of what I was going to do, and I didn’t even really think about clearly planning that before. So it was a few hops before I found copywriting. I had my own jewelry business, I did affiliate marketing, a t-shirt business, and kind of just hopped around. And I started a counseling training program which was a three year program. I just graduated from that last year. And it was on that path that I’ve always liked writing, enjoyed writing, and came across one of Copy Hackers‘ blogs. I think it’s written by Sam Woods, and it’s talking about the theory of copywriters towards therapists, and that blend which was exactly the line I was interested in. So that kind of pulled me into the copywriting moment very quickly afterwards I joined the mastermind, Joanna’s copywriter mastermind. So that was maybe like a month turn around there from well, copywriting exists to signing up for that program. And that was like a year long stint. So I just kind of was like eyeballs deep in learning copywriting, and had awesome experience interacting with Joanna and kind of learning from her, from the get-go. So that was kind of the first foray there. And more recently into research that is something that I would say is maybe even like six to eight months old in terms of conversion research. I’ve kind of been hopping around with copywriting trying to find my niche and listening a bunch to your guys podcast, just sort of figuring out what clicked. And a few copywriters asked me if I would do research for them, and that kind of stemmed out of them knowing my counseling and psychology background. And it kind of just happened organically

Conversion content writer, Doug Paton, is the guest for the 153rd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We’ve known Doug since the beginning days of The Copywriter Club, so it’s about time we had him on the show to talk about his approach to content writing. We asked Doug all about: • his favorite place to fly fish (in British Columbia) • how “not wanting to talk to people” led to his career choices • why he chose content as his focus as a copywriter • his stint writing books for kids—and how he landed it • how he applies his experience writing for kids to his work today • his process for writing content and how he grabs attention • how he pitches new clients on content projects • what he done to build his network and the result on his work load • what Doug would do if he had to start all over • his definition of “conversion content” and how its different from other content • what he’s done to land amazing clients like National Geographic • what he still struggles with in spite of his recent success • how he balances work with being a dad and the other demands on his time • what’s next in his business and what the future holds for copywriting To hear what Doug had to share, click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. You can also subscribe and download this episode to your favorite podcast player (recommended). Don’t miss this one.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Justin Blackman Shanelle Mullins Jessica Mehring Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Transcript delayed but on its way soon…    

Continuing what’s been a bit of a theme on the show lately, we invited copywriter Mai-kee Tsang to talk about how to pitch podcasts for the 152nd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Mai-kee recently set a goal to pitch 101 podcasts in 30 days, and she joined Kira and Rob to talk about how she did it, what she learned, and the impact the project had on her business. During our discussion, we asked her: • how Mai-kee finally listened to her heart and became a copywriter • how she applies ideas from psychology and coaching to her copy • overcoming fears and how she overcame her fear of acceptance • developing a habit of trying things regardless of the expected result • the importance of sales—and why copywriters can’t afford not to sell • what she did to find her first clients • how she announced her copywriting business to the world • why hiding until you’re ready is the wrong approach to launching • why she took on a “101 podcast pitches” project • the biggest lessons she learned while pitching podcasts • the terrible first pitch she sent and what she learned • the elements of a successful pitch and how Mai-kee personalized each pitch • how she finds elements to personalize her pitches • the group program she launching to help others get on more podcasts • overcoming the idea that you don’t have something to share • the impact podcasts have had on Mai-kee’s own business If you’ve ever listened to a podcast and though you could do better than the person you heard on the show, this is an episode you won’t want to miss. Combine it with our interview two weeks ago with Brigitte Lyons for best results. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. Or download the episode to your favorite podcast app and listen wherever you are.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank The Podcast Pitching Masterclass Mai-kee’s Website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Transcript to come…    

Marketing strategist and event planner, Patsy Kenney, is our guest for the 151st episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Patsy is wrapping up a couple of transitions in her business, including combining her event planning business into an agency with two of her best friends. We asked Patsy about all the changes in her life and… • how Patsy became a brand and event specialist • all the things someone needs to know to be an event planner • how to think about the purpose of your event to magnify your ripple effect • Patsy’s 4P process for event planning • the power of being intentional about everything at an event • how to foster more connection at an event (what we try to do at TCCIRL) • the part that branding and marketing play in your event • when copywriters should consider holding their own events • why retreats and personal gatherings are such a great opportunity • the mistakes she’s seen others make with their events • why she decided to fold her business into an agency with friends • navigating business and growing when life throws you a setback • what comes next for Patsy and her business(es) To hear the brilliant things Patsy shared about events and dealing with change, click the play button below, or download this episode to your favorite podcast app. Or scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Nikki Groom The Good Life Project Seth Godin Vidyard AndCelebrate.com TheBrandingEdit.com Patsy’s Instagram Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode 151 as we chat with branding and events strategist, Patsy Kenney, about celebrating something every day, what it’s like to start an agency with your best friends, how to know if you should have your own event, and what it takes to make an event successful. Welcome, Patsy. Rob: Hey, Patsy. Patsy: Hey, thank you both so much for having me. I’m really excited about this conversation. Kira: Yes, we are excited, and we met … I was trying to trace it back, but we met via Nikki Groom, who is also on our show, and we met at the Good Life Project, which is such a nice place to meet you. Patsy: We did. It was a lovely space, and I just adore that community because it is full of amazing people like yourself who are looking to really get the most out of this human experience that we’re a part of. Kira: All right, so, Patsy, let’s kick us off with your story. I know you’ve gone through a lot of changes in your business and your life. Let’s just start with how you ended up becoming a brand and event strategist. Patsy: Awesome. Yeah, so my path has not been a linear one by any means. When I first graduated from high school, I grew up in a small town in Maine, and I knew I wanted to leave the state, at least for those four years of college. I found myself in Rhode Island. When I first started that college pathway, I really didn’t know what I wanted to focus on, and I didn’t really have a great sense of self. I knew that I loved learning about people, and I was a decent writer. Those two things as my filter, I eventually found myself pursuing a public relations degree, and quickly, after graduation, found myself in a corporate setting in a marketing department for very well-known brands, but in an industry and space that wasn’t exactly what I would call interesting to me. While it was a great foundational place for me to land in terms of learning about how a business works and what it’s like to be out in this sort of corporate world, it was wonderful. The people I met during that time period were very integral in how I sort of shaped my path forward beyond that, but very quickly into that first six months of “adult” corporate life, I thought, “Gosh, there has to be more to life than this.” I ended up going back to school to pursue something more creative. I was studying graphics, multimedia, and web design in a small college here in Rhode Island, working full-time, going to school at night. That’s where really the time and place that I fell into branding and brand development and the art of that, and finding the deeper meaning behind the messaging, and how you can utilize visuals to tell a story, as well as copywriting to connect as quickly and deeply with your clients or future prospective customers as possible. That really lit me up, so I found myself over the last decade or so, prior to starting my own business, kind of bouncing from … I would say these were intentional leaps, but bouncing from co

For the 150th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, we asked public relations and podcast expert, Brigitte Lyons, to talk about the best ways to build authority. Brigitte has presented to our Think Tank and The Underground, but we felt like what she has to share is too good to keep secret. In this interview, we asked her about: • her early experiences as a PR specialist • how she shifted her business from PR to specializing in Podcasts • why podcasting is a powerful medium for building authority (and finding clients) • how to get started pitching podcasts—what to think about before you pitch • her advice to beginners and those who have “nothing” to say • the elements of your podcast pitch—what you need to include • what not to do when you pitch (the bad pitches she’s seen) • what to do after the podcast goes live to maximize the impact • how to make the interview successful—how to prep • why you need a clear call to action to direct people to your website If you’ve thought of using podcasts to build your authority as a copywriter, you’ll want to listen to this episode. To do that, just click the play button below or subscribe with your favorite podcast app. Readers can scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Creative Live Entrepreneur on Fire Lacy Boggs Zencastr Sims CatQuest Brigitte’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits? Then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work. That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 150 as we chat with media strategist and podcast expert Brigitte Lyons about building a reputation, tactics copywriters can use to build authority and recognition, what to include in your podcast pitch so the host will say yes and a few details about her new business Podcast Ally. Kira: Welcome Brigitte. Brigitte: Hi. Thank you so much. Episode 150. I heard you saying in the intro. I feel like that’s a milestone episode. Kira: This is a big deal episode. Yes. Rob: Definitely a big deal episode. And I probably just said the business name wrong too, it’s Ally, right? Not Alley. Brigitte: Yeah, it’s Ally. The naming of the business, that mistake right there was actually my biggest kind of fear. And there’s another company that has a pop-up ally and for years I thought it was Ali, so I’m like, it’ll just, it’ll be what it is. Rob: Yeah. My apologies. Everybody check out Podcast Alli and yeah and learn more. Kira: So we are so excited to have you here, Brigitte, because you have been in our community, you’ve already run a couple of workshops for our mastermind group and for our membership. And every time you run a workshop you teach, there’s so much you bring to the table and you teach us about podcasting and PR. So we knew we had to bring you on the podcast and I’m personally working with you too. So I’m clearly a big fan. So let’s just kick this off with your story. How did you end up in PR? Brigitte: Yeah, well I got into PR really early in my career. When I was in college, I was a creative writing major and of course, like all creative writing majors, I thought I’m going to leave school. I want to do something really creative. I want to write. Of course, I want to write the great American novel, which I haven’t done, but there’s still time. And I stumbled into PR by accident, while I was still in school, I did an internship for actually a local sheriff’s department. It’s this crazy story where the sheriff ended up in the hospital. My mom was an ER nurse and they got to talking and she’s like, ‘Hey, do you have any internships for my daughter?’ And it turned out being a really amazing experience because by the end of that summer, I was writing a full newsletter. We were doing all these really cool events. We did this whole event around not drinking and boating and we did some film spots and things like that. And I thought, ‘Oh, this would be kind of a cool way to spend my time when I’m out of school.’ And so I dove right into PR. I started out in the big agency path. So I did really political PR, so issue management, government relations, like if a company wanted legislation passed, I was in the agency helping shape public opinion about that legislation. If you’re getting the sense listening to this thinking like, ‘Oh, Brigitte, so you are one of the bad guys.’ You’re not entirely wrong about that. And so when I was doing that work, I just really realized that some of the things that I was working were entirely lined up with the beliefs and the values that I had. And so I st

This episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, is all about The Copywriter Accelerator—the 16-week program designed to help “newish” copywriters build the foundations of a healthy business. Kira and Rob talk about what it includes and who it’s for in this short, informational episode. The Copywriter Accelerator opens up for new members on August 27 and launches for good the first week of September.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Accelerator Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Since this is just a short discussion of The Copywriter Accelerator, there is no transcript for this episode.  

Copywriter Lindsay Hotmire is our guest for the 149th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We’ve gotten to know Lindsay over the past six months as she’s made some big changes to her business—including dialing in her niche and reaching out to a new kind of client. She told us all about the process she has followed as she’s made these changes (funny enough it’s the same process she walks her clients through). We asked Lindsay a bunch of stuff including: • how Lindsay went from high school English teacher to anti-hog activist to copywriter • how she found her first few clients so she could quit her full-time gig • the resources she used to gain traction and reach six figures • the “unbranding” transition she’s been going through over the last few months • why she applied her three-part client framework to her own business • her interest in phenomenology and how that affects her work • how developing a framework has changed the way so works with clients • the 5 steps of her framework and the questions she asks • why pivots are good for your business and why you should trust the journey • what she’s done to show up more for her audience—and where she does it • what to do if you don’t have anything interesting to share • the changes she’s making as she moves her business forward • how she gets so much done as a busy mom of four teens • what she would do differently if she had to start over Lindsay offers a calm, collected look at what it means to be a six-figure copywriter—including the struggles and successes. To hear this episode, click the play button below or subscribe and download it to your favorite podcast app. Rather read? Scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Start with Why by Simon Sinek Researching The Lived Experience by Max Van Manan To Kill a Mockingbird Lindsay’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode 149 as we chat with copywriter, Lindsay Hotmire about her framework that helps clients understand how she helps them brand their businesses, her interest in phenomenology, and how that impacts her business, changing niches and focusing on the clients she loves, and the number one thing that’s helped her push her business forward. Welcome, Lindsay. Lindsay: Hey, I’m so excited to be here. Kira: I know. We’re excited too, and we’re really grateful that we’ve been able to get to know you better through the Think Tank, and just chatting with you recently about all the changes you’ve made in your business and some of the frameworks you’re developing. We’ve got to talk to you about this, and of course, hit record as we’re chatting through some of this. Why don’t we start with your story? How did you end up as a copywriter? Lindsay: Yes, so my story. I always tell people I hate telling my own story. I like to collect people’s stories better, but my story really starts, I guess professionally back in 1999. I graduated from college. That was a time where I guess the internet existed, but fairly. Napster was still a thing. Facebook and LinkedIn, they didn’t even exist, and so I knew I loved to write, but I graduated from college with an education degree. I was going to teach high school English. I thought that that’s what I wanted to do because I understood even then the power of language to kind of change lives, and I thought, ‘What better place to do that than in a classroom.’ I realized pretty quickly that that wasn’t really the place for me. I just … My husband is an educator. He spent his life teaching educators, and so I have the utmost respect for educators, but it wasn’t my place. That wasn’t my passion, and so by the time I had baby number two, I decided to step out of the world of education, and so over the next few years, as I was having babies, raising my family, I did lots of things part-time. I worked in a law office, I taught part-time at a university, I worked on local political campaigns, and I became an activist for sustainable agriculture. That is the thing that really changed everything for me. That’s how I became a copywriter. 15,000 hogs turned me into a copywriter. The story is really, I became an activist for sustainable agriculture and realized that all the processes laid out for me to affect change, the democratic processes, they weren’t working. I just thought, ‘If I’m going to affect change, the only way I can do it is through the written word,’ and so I went on, got my master&#8217

Author, copywriter and member retention specialist, Robert Skrob, is our guest n the 148th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We recently invited Robert to present his unique business model to the members of The Copywriter Think Tank and wanted to share his unique approach to marketing his business with everyone who listens to the podcast. We asked Robert about: • how he went from working as a book keeper to writing copy for subscription businesses and the advantages his accounting background give him • how copywriters make our business more complex than it needs to be • why your marketing should be all about the problem you solve • Robert’s advice to copywriters choosing a niche • how he promotes his business today • the unique approach he used to attract his first big clients (this is worth stealing) • how he uses his book to attract and qualify clients today • the kinds of clients copywriters should be trying to attract (sail fish, not brim) • how Robert pitches long-term projects to his clients • the mindset issues that keep us from getting the paychecks we want • what he learned from Dan Kennedy and Bill Glazier • the ideas you can safely ignore when it comes to “the next new thing” • positioning yourself as the wizard with the knowledge • why there is no future in copywriting and what you need to be instead Here we go again, saying this is a great interview. But if you want to attract multiple, high-paying clients to your business, you could do a lot worse than follow the blue print that Robert lays out in this episode. To hear it, click the play button below, or subscribe with your favorite podcast app. Or scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Ultimate Sales Letter by Dan Kennedy David Deutsch Parris Lampropoulos Retention Point by Robert Skrob Bill Glazier Perry Marshall Adam Witty Travis Miller The Bonanza King Robert’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits? Then, steal an idea or two to inspire your own work. That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for Episode 148 as we chat with author and copywriter, Robert Skrob, about adopting a unique copywriting niche and positioning himself as the industry expert in memberships and subscriptions, the sales formula to outline his recent book, Retention Point, why people join memberships and why they leave, and what it’s like to write a book with Dan Kennedy. Hey Robert. Robert: It’s my honor to be here. It took, I guess I’m 148 on the list of the most interesting copywriters to talk to. Rob: You’re way above that. But, we just haven’t been able to get with you. You’re so busy. Kira: That’s true. Rob: With a such a great business. It’s amazing to have you here though. Thank you so much for being here. Robert: I’m honored. I don’t hang out at copywriting events or speak at those things, but I certainly see copywriters struggle and become very frustrated. So hopefully, we can share some ideas that can help simplify this whole business for everybody. Kira: Sounds great. Well, let’s start with your story first. How did you end up as a copywriter? Robert: Actually, back in 1993, I was an accountant at a public accounting firm and hated it. I was there three months and left, took a job as a bookkeeper for a company that did consulting with non-profit associations, and I ended up buying that company about five years later. So, I had 20 associations that I was responsible for doing membership marketing, event marketing, sponsorship sales, and I needed to know how to get this stuff sold. I ran across Dan Kennedy about ’96 and found his how to write a sales letter book. I can remember sitting at my living room coffee table going through that book chapter by chapter writing my first sales letter ever and editing it and getting it out. So, for a number of a years, for the clients that we were working with, I was writing offers for membership sales, selling sponsorships, selling exhibits, and even in some political campaigns. So, it gave me a very quick practice in how to write because I was writing to movers to get them to join. I was writing to motorcycle dealers, to different types of doctors, dermatologists, OB-GYNs, pain medicine doctors, anesthesiologists, and then occupational therapists and geologists, all different types of people. So, it helped me really understand. They’d say you’ve got to learn what the insider language is of the niche and learn what they’re thinking. That experience really helped me learn that. I started doing some freelance cop

Copywriter Adam Bensman is our guest for the 147th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We’ve gotten to know Adam over the past few months and are very impressed with the business he’s built. While so many copywriters struggle to find decent paying clients, Adam has built a great business working with a few, high-paying clients—and still has plenty of time at the end of the day for recreation and fun. We asked Adam about: • how he went from door to door sales to copywriter (with a few stops in between) • how he compensates for the “missing advantages” of face to face sales when you’re writing email (or sales pages) • why you need to couple empathy with pain when you “agitate the pain” • how to join the conversation in your prospect’s head • the template he uses when he sits down to write for clients • establishing boundaries and how it can change your business • how Adam defines his niche (it’s not the regular way) • the connection secret he used to find clients that fit in his niche • the value he creates for his clients (and how he presents it) • pricing… what Adam used to do and what he does today • what a typical project looks like (and what Adam does to complete it) • success fees and how it makes it work for his clients • how to think bigger about your business We say this a lot, but this is a good one. To hear everything Adam has to share, click the play button below or download this episode to your favorite podcast player. Rather read? Scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Joseph Sugarman Sales Email Formula Adam’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode 147 as we chat with copywriter Adam Bensman about his approach to finding high-paying clients and building a business to support his lifestyle, making the time to value switch, how he finds the right clients and prices his projects, and what all copywriters can do to think bigger about their businesses. Kira: Welcome, Adam. Adam: Hey. Thank you, Kira and Rob. It’s great to be here. Rob: Yeah, it’s good to have you here. Kira: All right, Adam. So let’s start with your story. How did you end up as a copywriter? Adam: My original background was in psychology and natural medicine, and when I moved to Madison, Wisconsin to pursue that venture, I was making no money in that field. And I set out to put food on the table, literally. I mean, I was that broke. So, I fell into door-to-door sales selling roofing, and from there worked my way up to be the COO of a multi-state roofing and storm restoration company. And when I left that space from burnout, I started in the consulting world. And I was writing all of our direct mail at that company when I was COO, and then when I was doing consulting, I was providing some of those service for clients, not really even understanding that there was a copywriting profession in existence. And I went on to co-found kind of an email marketing-type SaaS for the niche that I came from. And we went six months with zero sales. It was me and one partner. And I was sending emails out to our list that I had built, to past clients. I was posting on LinkedIn, posting on Facebook and engaging all the Facebook groups. We literally went six months with zero sales. And when I kind of reached this breaking point, it was like, we needed to turn the ship around. So, I found an opportunity to joint venture with someone in our space, share their list. And I said, ‘Hey, I’ll write a promo series for you as long as I can promote our products.’ And I just poured my heart and soul into these three emails that I was able to write through this list, and looked at all the things I couldn’t control when selling in person, which I was really good at, and figured out how I can control them in an email. So, I put together this three-email sequence and drove a $100,000 in contracted sales out of those three emails in a week. And I said, ‘Wow, I’m onto something. Six months, zero sales, $100,000 in a week. This is awesome.’ So, at that point, I was super fired up, and I said, ‘Hey, I’d love to do this for a living.’ And I didn’t even know it existed. So long and short of it, picked up my first client as a copywriter from that specific email sequence. I ended up parting ways with my business partner. Just, you know how those go. We were doing well, and it just wasn’t a good fit for us to be working together. And when we parted ways, I just set out to do it. And the re

A-list Copywriter and best-selling author, Richard Armstrong, is our guest for the 146th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Richard has been writing winning direct response copy for more than 30 years. And he just released his latest book, The Don Con. Kira and Rob invited Richard into the studio to talk about the book and a whole lot more. Stuff like… • how Richard went from office boy to agency creative director • the lessons he learned early on working on “junk” mail • what’s changed in the world of direct response in 30 years—and what hasn’t • his award-winning letter for Sea Turtle Rescue • the go-to books he refers to again and again • his favorite clients and the work he’s most proud of • why he took long 3 martini lunches in his “Mad Men” days • the one good copywriting habit he has • the #1 thing that makes copywriters good at what they do • what Richard learned while writing about con men • the important difference between copywriters and confidence men • his experience at Comic Con and FanCon • what happened when he met Captain Kirk and The Fonz Don’t miss your opportunity to get the free copywriting samples and download that Richard mentioned during the interview. And check out a few of the many resources he mentioned. This is a good one. To hear it all, click the play button below, or download this episode to your favorite podcast app. And if you prefer reading, you can scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: FreeSampleBook.com Claude Hopkins David Ogilvy Eugene Schwartz The Sea Turtle Letter The Responsive Chord by Tony Schwartz The Solid Gold Mailbox by Walter Wentz Being Direct by Lester Wunderman Boardroom Parris Lampropoulos Richard Viguerie Agora AWAI David Deutsch Clayton Makepeace Carline Anglade Cole Jim Rutz The Don Con Jonathan Frakes Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob: This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira: It’s our new membership designed for you to help you attract more clients and hit 10K a month consistently. Rob: For more information or to sign up, go to thecopywriterunderground.com. Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 146, as we chat with author and direct response copywriter Richard Armstrong about the persuasion techniques used by con artists that copywriters use as well, what he’s learned from 40 years of writing junk mail and what he writes today, his new book The Don Con, and a very useful free bonus he’s sharing with copywriters. Richard, welcome. Richard: Thank you very much. It’s great to be here. I am a big fan of the emails you guys send everyday. A lot of tremendous personality and voice in those emails and I read them avidly. Kira: Thank you. Rob: That’s nice of you to say. I think all of the personality is Kira. I’m kind of the boring side, so she deserves the credit for that. Kira: That is not true, but thank you for saying that. That’s very nice and I was just saying before we started recording, Richard and I are officially neighbors because I just moved to Washington, D.C. So we’re going to hang out all the time, right Richard? Richard: Absolutely. The only problem with being a citizen of Washington is that the rest of the country hates you. So when you go anywhere else on vacation, tell them you’re from Brooklyn, you’ll get a much better response. Kira: Okay, these are things I need to know that you need to teach me, so we’ll sit down and go through all the rules of what I need to know about living here. Let’s kick this off, Richard, with your story. How did you end up as a copywriter? Richard: Well, it was totally by accident. I’m always kind of amused nowadays when I see these people, very young people, including one successful copywriter that I know that actually got interested while she was still in college. That didn’t happen in my day 45 years ago. I mean, I think just about all of us kind of fell into this business and that was certainly my story. I got a job as a copy, not a copy but an office boy with a direct mail agency. Now what an office boy is, is kind of like beneath a secretary. It’s somebody who just hangs around the office and if the important people need to have coffee or sandwiches sent in, you go get them and you lick envelopes and you stand at the photocopier machine and make copies, and things like that. And I was doing that for a while. In our agency, which was a small direct mail fundraising agency, the structure that they had

Copywriter Jay Pitkanen is our guest for the 145th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Jay has an interesting background, having worked as a taxi driver and relationship coach which has prepared him well for the work he does as a copywriter. Kira and Rob asked Jay about: • how he went from poker player to blogger to copywriter to coach • what his business looks like today and what he writes • why we need to be “cool with being vulnerable” • what the typical conversation with his coaching clients looks like • what it takes to shift someone’s mindset and why it works • improving the offer to create a better connection with the audience • the value of personality in attracting the right clients • why trusting yourself leads to more opportunity—don’t wait for permission • the power of controversy and the effect on his business • the mistakes copywriters make that hold them back We also asked Jay about the lessons he learned as a taxi driver—his #1 takeaway from that experience is don’t show fear… and maybe that’s a good lesson for copywriters as well. To hear this one, click the play button below, download the episode to your favorite podcast app, or scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: John Morrow Luke Sullivan Jay’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob: This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira: It’s our new membership designed for you to help you attract more clients and hit 10K a month consistently. Rob: For more information or to sign up, go to thecopywriterunderground.com. What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode 145 as we can chat with copywriter and relationship coach, Jay Pitkanen about marketing his business, what copywriting and relationship coaching have in common, owning your voice and viewpoints, and the business lessons he learned while driving a taxi. Kira: Welcome, Jay. Rob: Hey, hey. Glad to have you here. Jay: Hi guys. Thanks for having me. Kira: Yeah, great to have you here, Jay. I know we were just mentioning before we started recording that we had connected a couple of years ago, maybe three or four years ago. I’m not even sure how long ago now and so it’s great to catch up with you now and hear about how your business has changed. So why don’t we start with just how you got started as a copywriter and where you are today? Jay: Oh, sure. So the thing is, I’ve always been interested in how people’s minds work and how I can influence that. It’s been like a curiosity of mine ever since … as long as I can remember. I used to be a poker player for a while and then that got a bit too stressful to do as a living thing, but that always … The reason I was interested in that was because I loved to see what’s going on in people’s minds, or at least I thought I could do that and that was so fascinating to me and ever since then, it’s been expressing myself in a way to get other people interested in stuff and just hearing how people think and ways to get to influence that. That’s always been such a huge fascination of mine and I wonder when the first time I really got into copywriting though was. It must’ve been like five or six years ago, when I started one of my first blogs and really got into writing. Kira: Yeah, just when you got started with copywriting and then how that’s changed too. Are you a copywriter today or has that morphed into something else over the last few years? Jay: Out of my blog … First there was I wanted to monetize my blogs. I wanted to be a blogger right? This was a whole huge thing four years ago. Everyone wanted to be a blogger and I’m like ‘Hey, I can make money with this, so yeah, I’m going to be a blogger.’ Whatever that means, I went to John Morrow and did his class and started building my blog, but I realized that more than the blog writing, I was interested in the marketing stuff, so then through that, I got a job at this software company, Thryv Scenes, which some of you may have heard of. I think that was actually the place when I really, really dived into copywriting as it is, as a sales tool, as a sales mechanism. So we worked together for a couple years but then I realized I really got to do my own thing, so I started … We went our separate ways and I started building my own business and I figured since I liked writing and I liked the marketing stuff work so copywriting must be my thing and the interesting thing was as a new business owner

Copywriter Jeff Kimes is our guest for the 144th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Jeff is a former scientist and musician (or rather, he’s currently a musician making his living writing copy for clients). We asked Jeff about his path into copywriting and a bunch of other topics including… • Jeff’s journey from scientist to copywriter • the “copywriting” lessons he learned as a musician • how he creates connection with his readers • the importance of setting the stage to create a better experience • what he’s doing today as a copywriter (and where he is living) • the challenges of writing for a single client and learning their voice • the benefits of working with a single client • how we can optimize for learning throughout our careers • what Jeff is doing to build his authority today Jeff also shared a few thoughts about the ethics of copywriting and why thinking about how your copy serves your customers matters. Click the play button below, find it on your favorite podcast app, or scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Jeff’s music Joshua Bell in the Subway Video Brian Clark (Copyblogger) Brian Kurtz Scott Adams Jeff’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob: This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira: It’s our new membership designed for you to help you attract more clients and hit 10K a month consistently. Rob: For information or to sign up go to thecopywriterunderground.com. Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode number 144 as we chat with copywriter Jeff Kimes about how science, music and travel combined to make him a more effective copywriter. His research and writing process, seeking out experiences that grow his career. And we might even talk a little bit about the ethics of copy. Kira: All right, welcome Jeff. Rob: Hey Jeff. Jeff: Hello. Kira: I want to say welcome back because we already did interview months ago, but we just lost the file. It just didn’t work out. So welcome back. We never got to publish that conversation, but I know this one will be even more insightful. So Jeff why don’t we start this off just with the basics of how you got into copywriting and then we’ll go from there. Jeff: So as far as my own journey into copywriting, I’ve lived a couple different phases of life, which I think is pretty normal at this point in society. I started out in science. I was working in a psychoneuroimmunology lab. After school I was doing, working in vaccine development. I worked in neuroscience labs and stuff like that. And after a while I got really sick of the lab life and was really hungering for more. And I always had a real big travel bug inside of me. And so went on a, found jobs that facilitated that lifestyle. I worked at sea a lot in marine biology and used that to fund eight years of world travel that was very musically inspired. I’m also a musician and I’d go to a lot of countries where I was really inspired by their musical traditions and learned to teach over there. And then I would take what I learned and incorporate it into music that I was making back here in the U.S. and used that to launch a music project that I played with for several years. It was really fun, enormously fun. Not terribly profitable, but just a really, really beautiful life experience. And in that process of growing a band and trying to make music my life and make that my living started to really come into contact with the necessity of marketing. And you have to get your message out there. You have, it doesn’t matter how good what you do is. No one really cares how good what you do, unfortunately, if they don’t know about it. If you can’t tell your story, if you can’t tell people how awesome you are, if you can’t find ways to connect with audiences and draw them into whatever it is that you’re creating, it’s almost a lost cause. I mean I’ve met lots of incredible musicians, just like really inspired artists, amazing people who are all really struggling. No one’s ever heard of them because they don’t know how to promote themselves. And so my first real exposure to copywriting was doing Kickstarter campaigns and running copy for our Kickstarter launch and helped script out the video. I mean it was a team effort, for sure, and a lot of outreach and all that. That was the first time I was like, okay, if you want people to give you money you have to write all these words. What do you write? How

Copywriter Lauren Hazel is our guest for the 143rd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Lauren is a hustler who has done a lot in her years as a copywriter. She thinks and writes about brand stories, marketing and email. Once we got her in the studio, we asked about… • how Lauren accidentally became a copywriter • how she stumbled onto copywriting when she tried to improve a flyer • the programs she used to learn her skill set • what she learned about pricing from her first freelance project • her cold call pitch that failed and what she learned from the failure • what she did to grow beyond her first couple of clients • how changing her title brought her more copywriting and marketing work • how she splits her time between her marketing agency, training and writing • what she does in her workshops and how much she charges • how she packages her strategy work • the things she has done that have made the biggest difference in her business • the kinds of clients she works with in her business today • the mistakes she’s made that she won’t make again • what it was like to work with 50Cent We also asked Lauren about her program for introverts. To hear what she had to share, click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: CopyHour Lauren’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob: This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira: It’s our new membership designed for you to help you attract more clients and hit 10K a month consistently. Rob: For more information or to sign up, go to thecopywriterunderground.com. What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode 143 as we chat with copywriter and brand strategist Lauren Hazel about building her business, what it means to hustle and how copywriters can do it better, why every copywriter should have an email list and what to send them, and what it’s like to write for a celebrity like 50 Cent. Hey, Lauren, welcome. Lauren: Hey, how are you all doing? What’s up? Kira: Great. Great to have you here and we want to kick this off, I feel like we should kick it off with 50 Cent and just give that away, but we’re going to make people wait for that story. Lauren: Ah… Kira: So let’s start with your story. How did you end up as a copywriter? Lauren: By accident. Not intentional. It’s like, ‘No, duh duh duh.’ No. So what happened … Oh God, I’m thinking about my birthday is coming up in a couple of days by the time we’re doing this, so. Kira: Oh, happy birthday. Lauren: Thank you. So it’s nine years probably. Yeah, damn near nine year, almost 10 years here. So, what I, I live in New York City and I had a tutoring business. So, I was trying to find a way to get more tutoring clients. An at that point, I was using either referral system, so I would go to places that I had worked or knew where there were schools that I had volunteered at and asked for, ‘If anyone needs math tutoring, I’m available.’ And then I was doing fliers, because fliers actually still work for those who don’t know. Fliers do work. And I was trying to make the flier better, so I was in a group and I was like, ‘Hey, here’s my flier. I’m trying to, I’m planning on posting this out in Soho or whatever and see if I can get some clients.’ And folks were like, ‘Give me a hint.’ And then someone said, ‘Hey, why don’t you, you should really look into copywriting because you’ll then learn how to write a better flier and stuff like that.’ And I’m like, ‘Okay, I know what copywriting is legally.’ And I was like, ‘What is this copywriting thing?’ And so they started pointing me in the direction of some links and then I got on some email lists and then I got into some courses, the courses back then and learning how to write copy, direct response copy, so I can actually write better ads or fliers for my tutoring business at the time. So that’s how I started. It was to get some kiddies and some parents to trust me enough to hand me money and your child to teach them some math. Rob: So, tell us what were some of those resources that you used to get the skills when you were first starting out? Lauren: Let’s see, I’m trying to think. There is a program which is still around called the Copy Hour. I got into that, somebody probably said, ‘Hey, why don’t you do Copy Artist?’ Because at the time I was in college at the time, so it wasn’t like I wasn’t doing anything. I was in col

What’s the big deal about style in copy anyway? We invited Style Consultant and copywriter Tamara Glick to join us for the 142nd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast to get to the bottom of that question. We covered a lot of ground in this one, but unfortunately we forgot to ask Tamara about joining a biker gang—even though we teased it in the intro. However, we think this episode makes up for that mistake because it’s our first interview to include the word, “huge-mungous.” Here’s what we covered with Tamara: • how she went from working as a fashion consultant to writing copy • what it means to be a style consultant • the importance of a personal brand and showing that to the world • what she learned working closely with other creative in an ad agency • what it took to transition full time to copywriting • what she did once she decided to quit a full time job and make a living writing copy • what she did to line up projects and find clients • the changes she made when she went through the Copywriter Accelerator • the packages, prices and other things she offers in her business today • how she’s investing in her business today • mindset and how she gets out of her own way • her advice to others who aren’t as outgoing and energetic as she is To hear this episode, you’ve got to click the play button below or download it to your favorite podcast app. Prefer to read? Scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Accelerator The Copywriter Think Tank Soho House Agnes Kowalski Tamara’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob: This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira: It’s our new membership designed for you to help you attract more clients and hit 10K a month consistently. Rob: For more information or to sign up, go to thecopywriterunderground.com. Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 142 as we chat with copywriter Tamara Glick about leaving the safety of a job and going freelance full-time, the role that fashion and style play in her business today, what she’s doing today to invest in her business, and whether it’s true that she’s a member of a biker gang. Kira: Biker gang, what? Rob: Hey, Tamara. Kira: I feel like we’re teasing that, but I want to know right now. So welcome. I know you and I have chatted about this for a while and getting you on the show, because definitely you have been through a lot of transitions in your own business that we want to talk about. But before we do, let’s just dig into how you ended up as a copywriter. Tamara: Sure, hi guys. This is so exciting for me. How I ended up as a copywriter is kind of a twisted, checkered story. I actually started my career in advertising, but on the business side. Originally I would be the person who was going between the clients and the creative teams and briefing a creative team from what I’d been given from a client, and then allowing the creative team to do their magical work, and then coming back and working through that again with the client, and back and forth and back and forth. I would be that person who would sit with the creatives right beside them kind of hanging over their cubicles and saying, ‘What you doing? Can I help? What can I do?’ So I really learned a ton from hanging out with my creative teams and appreciating the processes that they would go through, but I was working more on the business side. Simultaneously, I was also building a business as a personal stylist. So I became a trained image consultant and built a business helping people with essentially self-expression. So that came in terms of the clothing that they would wear or the words that they would use on their resumes or their LinkedIn profiles or on their business’s websites if they were growing their own businesses. I had quite a few clients when I moved into image consulting full-time for whom I did that kind of messaging work. But I never really considered it to be ‘copywriting’. I’ve got my air quotes going. Then as my business started to evolve, we’re talking 13 years down the line, a few of my digital copywriter friends approached me and said, ‘We could really use your help on some overflow. Did you know that you’re a copywriter? We don’t really understand why you’re not doing that.’ I said, ‘What do you mean I’m a copywriter?’ They’re like, ‘Well, can you go back and explain your story again?’ I thought, ‘Oh. Oh that’s what you meant.’ So essentiall

Writing quizzes is pretty hot right now. So we asked entrepreneur and Quiz expert, Josh Haynam to join us to share everything he knows about quizzes for the 141st episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. In this episode Kira and Rob asked all their questions about what copywriters need to know before creating great quizzes. Here’s what we covered: • the story of how Josh and his partner built a business on quizzes • some of the struggles he faced in starting his own company • the moment Josh and others knew things were going to work • why quizzes are such powerful tools for engaging your audience • how quizzes can change the person who is taking it • what the best quizzes have in common and why they work • examples of people and companies that are doing quizzes right • best practices for following up your quiz to engage your audience • the tools Interact has created to help writers create a quiz • the mistakes people make when creating quizzes • what his ridiculous daily schedule looks like • what he does to meditate for an hour and a half *really* We also asked Josh about how Interact got traction—the content strategy they followed as they grew, how he listens to customers to figure out what’s next, and what the future holds for Interact. To hear it all, click the play button below, download the episode to your podcast player, or scroll down read a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Interact <– sign up here Marie Forleo Jenna Kutcher The Copywriter Club Quiz Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Note: we’ve talked about quizzes before. Click here to hear our interview with Chanti Zak about how she’s built her business around quizzes. Also, that link to Interact is an affiliate link. If you sign up for a paid account, we will earn a dollar or two (at no cost to you).   Full Transcript: Rob: This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira: It’s our new membership designed for you to help you attract more clients and hit 10K a month consistently. Rob: For more information or to sign up, go to thecopywriterunderground.com. What if you can hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You are invited to join the club for Episode 141 as we chat with entrepreneur and quiz expert, Josh Haynam, about co-founding Interact, how copywriters are using quiz funnels for their clients and in their own businesses, why quizzes are such powerful marketing tools, and what separates a great quiz from the merely good quizzes. Welcome, Josh. Rob: Hey, Josh. Josh: Yeah, thanks for having me. Kira: Yeah, great to have you here. And as a sponsor at our conference for copywriters in Brooklyn this past March, which already feels like a long time ago, was not that long ago, but great to have you and meet you at the event. So, just to start, can you tell us a little bit about your story and how you ended up building Interact? Josh: Yeah, yeah. It’s a long story. Interact itself is a long story. It’s been in business for almost eight years, which is, like, an eternity in the software world. We’re basically, like, grandparents at this point. Yeah, I got my start as an entrepreneur when I was 15, so I’ve been running companies for 11 years now. And Interact was born out of an agency that myself and my co-founder Matt used to run. We would build websites for people and run all of their digital marketing. And we’d charge them a lot of money, and the end of the day, really all they had any interest in was the size of their email list, so how many contacts were coming in, and could they market to those contacts? And that was, kind of, frustrating for us because we spent all this time building out these interfaces and all this stuff, and they would just want to know the number. So, we actually stumbled across the quiz idea by accident, because one of our clients asked for a quiz to be built, I think, it was, ‘What’s Your Sales Persona?’ Which now, everybody builds very similar quizzes to that. But at the time, we did it custom, we put it on his website, and it converted just way, way, way better than our other websites we’d built. And it was much easier. And it was a simple process to create the thing. And then, kind of, digging into that, we just realized this makes sense, like, if you just ask people about themselves, and you give them a personalized product offering or a service offering, then it converts a lot better, and you get a lot more opt-ins because the quiz has an opt-in form in order to reveal your results. So, that’s where it started, that was 2011, so a very, very long time ago. And no one r

Thinking about joining a membership community for copywriters? This episode may help you make the decision to jump. For the 140th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob talk about The Copywriter Underground—what it includes and what you can expect when you join. And so it just isn’t us talking about a thing we made, we asked six members to join us and share their experience. The result is an episode that is a bit longer than what we usually share, but it was interesting to hear some of the things Underground members shared about their experience. Here’s what we covered: • what has surprised us the most since launching The Underground • what The Copywriter Underground includes (there’s a lot) • how The Underground is going to change this July 1st—important if you’ve been thinking of trying it out • how The Underground has helped members like Amy Jones, Derek Hambrick, Mladden Stojanović, Renae Rockwell, Emily Zoscak, and Natalie Smithson Like we said, this one is different. It’s not a full-on sales pitch, but it is all about this community that we love. To hear more about it, click the play button below, or download the episode to your podcast player. Or to read the transcript, simply scroll down.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: David Garfinkel Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob: This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira: It’s our new membership, designed for you, to help you attract more clients and hit 10k a month, consistently. Rob: For more information or to sign up, go to thecopywriterunderground.com. Kira: Hey Rob. Rob: Hey Kira, how’s it going? Kira: It’s great. It’s great. Rob: We do not have an intro prepared for this episode, because we don’t have a guest today. Well, we actually have six guests today, but not, this is a different kind of episode. We’ve never really done this before, and I think we were talking the other day about The Underground and we thought, you know, a lot of people ask us about what’s going on in The Underground or what it is and they have questions. And so we thought, let’s just go really deep on what’s in The Underground, what we do there, and ask some of our members of The Underground what their experience is like, just so that people have a really good idea of what it is and how it can help somebody in their copywriting journey. Kira: Yeah. So this is fun, because you’ll actually hear the voices of the members. And we lovingly call them our moles. I don’t know who started that, we think it was Justin Blackman, who coined the term. But our members seem to be very happy being called moles. So we will hear their voices as they talk through their experience in The Underground, which we haven’t really shared before. And then Rob and I will just talk through what we’ve learned from running The Underground since September, right? Is that when we launched it? Rob: Yeah, we launched it in September and it’s been going now for seven or eight months. It’s grown to almost 200 people. And we’re actually going to close the doors to new members here in the near future, we’ve got a few weeks before that happens. But we’ll talk a little bit about that as well, and the change behind that. So Kira, you know, let’s, what’s your experience been in The Underground so far? Like what has surprised you, what were you expecting and how has it turned out maybe differently or even better than what you expected? Kira: Yeah. So I think so far what has surprised me the most is that the community aspect is more important than anything else. Then the trainings we create, live trainings in there, there’s a ton of great templates and resources and scripts. Especially like, we add stuff from our own businesses that we use, and that’s all been great, and the members use that. But I guess I have been surprised at how many members really are sticking around and growing their businesses and gaining confidence from each other and the community aspect. Which is great, because that’s what a membership is all about. But until you start it and see it unfold, you don’t really know what the members will take out of it, and you don’t know if a community is going to work or not if people will connect. There are parts of that you can control and help, but also part of that is just the people you’re attracting, and if it’s working or not. So I’d say that probably surprised me the most. What about you, Rob? Rob: Yeah, I agree. And I think I’ve been surprised as well as to how strong that community is. It feels a lot like The Copywriter Club when we first started out. Kira: Yeah. Rob: With just a couple hundred members, and the camaraderie, the people supporting each oth

Thinking about writing a book? Author and book coach Jennie Nash is our guest for the 139th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Although we’ve talked about writing a book on the podcast before, Rob and Kira wanted to go even deeper on the topic, as well as learn what it means to be a book coach. We learned a lot from the discussion. Here’s what we covered: • how she became a book coach and landed book deals for her first 3 clients • the embarrassingly easy process of writing her own first book • where creativity and book ideas come from • when someone should consider working with a book coach • where writers go wrong in the book writing process • the three critical motivations that drive people to write books • the she turned book coaching into a thriving business • whether copywriters should have a book to support their businesses • the place ego plays in writing a book • how she prices her coaching packages and what they include • the importance of structure and where you can find them If you’ve even considered writing a book, you should listen to what Jennie has to share. Click the play button below, download the episode to your favorite podcast app, or scroll down to read a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Creative Habit by Twila Tharp Jenny’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob: This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira: It’s our new membership designed for you, to help you attract more clients and hit 10K a month, consistently. Rob: For more information or to sign up, go to thecopywriterunderground.com. What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two, to inspire your own work. That’s what Kira and I do, every week, at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode 139, as we chat with book coach, Jennie Nash, about writing and publishing a book, working in the publishing industry, what her writing process looks like, and how we can avoid the mistakes authors usually make when sitting down to write a book. Welcome Jennie. Rob: Hey, Jennie. Jennie: Hey, thanks for having me. Kira: Yeah, great to have you here. So, let’s kick this off with your story, how did you end up as a book coach? Jennie: Well, I guess we should start out by saying what a book coach is, because a lot of people have never heard that term. Rob: That’s the question, what is a book coach? Jennie: And I may have made it up, I don’t know. I mean, I’m not claiming to have started the internet kind of thing. But, lots of people have been using this term, but the way I distinguish it, is that, an editor usually works on a piece of writing after that piece of writing is finished, in order to move it forward and make it better. And a book coach helps a writer while they’re writing. So, the way I describe it is, it’s like a personal trainer for your writing life. And a book coach is focused on book writing. So, that’s what a book coach is. And I stumbled into this career after a career as an author. I had published seven books in two genres, mostly with big five publishers. And I was teaching at the UCLA writers program, which is actually the largest adult focused writing program in the country. And what I realized when I began teaching, I taught there for 12 years, and I realized that I was teaching systems. And that, nobody else around me was teaching systems. And it began to be quite obvious that I was doing something different. And I didn’t know I was doing that, it just was a thing that I naturally did. And as a result of that practice, I guess, I would call it, I was approached by another instructor, who is Lisa Cron, who’s the author of Wired for Story and Story Genius. And Lisa is a brilliant story analyst and she was teaching in the program as well and wanted to write a book about her thoughts and philosophies and ideas about story. But, she didn’t know how, she had never written a book. And so, she recognized that I had the system’s way of thinking and asked if I would coach her. And I didn’t, at the time, know how to do that, or what that would look like or anything, but I said yes. And together, we found our way, and the result was the sale of that two book deal for her. And my next client in a different genre, sold his book to Simon and Schuster, his memoir to Simon and Schuster. So, the first three projects I worked on, ended up in big five book deals. So, I realized I was on to something, and began to do it full time. Rob: That is awesome. So, I’m really curious about the systems that you use. But before we talk about that, tell us about the first book that you w

Do you need better packages to offer your clients? Prerna and Mayank Malik join us for the 138th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast to share what they know about packages. This is something a lot of copywriters struggle with, so Kira and Rob asked Prerna and Mayank about the best ways to think about and structure packages. Here’s what we covered: • what has changed in their business over the past two years • their failure to reach a lofty revenue goal (and why it was still a success) • the key team players they lean on for support • how they create and refine the packages they offer their clients • the IMAGE framework they use when they come up with a new product • an example of how the use the framework to create packages • why they’re so passionate about packages (and passion is definitely the right word) • the mistakes copywriters make when creating a package • why knowing your audience is the key to creating a good package • how the packages fit together in their business • how to get started creating a package for your business • how to make your existing package more profitable • their approach to launches and how they make sure the launch goes well • the niches and businesses that packages won’t work for • how they manage their days to finish work by 3:00 each day • what to do before you decide to work with your spouse As usual, this is a good one. Click the play button below or download this episode to your podcast app. If you’d rather read, scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Prerna’s First TCC Interview The Copywriter Think Tank Profits on Tap Fully Loaded Launch Bushra Azhar Prerna’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Transcript to come…    

Copywriter and entrepreneur, Austin Mullins, is our guest for the 137th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We’ve known Austin for quite a while now and the more we heard him talk about his sales process, the more we knew we needed to have him share his process with the club. We covered a lot of ground—especially about sales processes—in this one, here’s a good list of most of what we talked about: • how Austin became a copywriter in high school • why he thinks it was a mistake (for him) to attend college • what he did to find good clients beyond Upwork • the #1 thing he did to grow his business—it has to do with sales • why he chose the niche he is in and how it changed his business • how he split his time between three “jobs” at the same time • his “ideal” client acquisition process and selling on the phone • what to do to encourage referrals or testimonials • the mistakes copywriters make on sales calls (and how to fix them) • what it means to be a growth strategist—and how to “do” strategy • what his process for working with content clients looks like • an in-depth review of what the sales process should look like • how to teach yourself to “sell” To hear this one—and if you struggle with sales you definitely want to hear this one, click the play button below or download the episode to your podcast app. Readers scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Accelerator The Copywriter Think Tank Danny Marguiles Joel Klettke SPIN Selling Austin’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob: This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira: It’s our new membership designed for you to help you attract more clients and hit 10k a month consistently. Rob: For more information or to sign up, go to thecopywriterunderground.com. What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode 137 as we chat with copywriter Austin Mullins about what he does as a growth strategist for B2B SaaS companies, how he attracts and closes leads, what it’s like to build an agency, and the challenges of investing his time in more than one business at once. Welcome, Austin. Rob: Hey, Austin. Austin: Thanks for having me, guys. Longtime fan of the podcast, so excited to be here. Kira: Great to have you here, Austin. As one of our former Accelerator members and now a Think Tank member. It’s about time we had you on the show, so let’s start with your story. How did you end up as a copywriter and growth strategist? Austin: Yeah. I started a bit early, so I first started doing a little bit of copywriting work in high school, actually. Stumbled across Upwork, which I know is often a dirty word around these parts but stumbled upon there and was interested in this freelancing thing. I had always been good at academic writing but didn’t particularly enjoy it, but stumbled across this term, copywriting and started to do some really low-level work like helping people write reviews and such at first, and then gradually worked my way up to being a generalist copywriter, who would write blog content for all sorts of businesses, brochures, a little bit of web copy in there but not web copy done the right way with lots of customer research. Then did that for a while. Made the mistake of letting my family convince me I should go to college, and so, business dropped off. Then when I tried to get back into it, things didn’t pick up quite as quickly as I thought they would, so I ended up telling myself, ‘Okay, I need to learn sales. I’m not good enough at closing new business.’ I went in-house at an agency as a sales guy, worked my way up the ranks there and then more recently, have departed that agency and I’m now working totally on my agency, which is focused on content marketing and SEO, as you mentioned, for B2B SaaS companies. Rob: Okay, so I want to ask about the mistake of going to college. This is something that a lot of people don’t talk about and an interesting phrasing. Obviously, it’s not a mistake for everybody, but why was it a mistake for you? What was it about that experience that was wrong and what has happened since you left? Austin: Yeah, absolutely. One reason it was a mistake is that I had a little bit of momentum. I was not earning a lot of money as a copywriter but enough to get by at the time, and so, allocating that much of my time to something else that wasn’t really what I wanted to do but out of obligation to someone else, was not a great idea. It was understandable at the time but

Nikita Morell is our guest for the 136th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We’ve known Nikita for a while now and given the success she’s had, it’s a shame we haven’t had her on the podcast before now. Nikita has found a lot of success by niching her business and delivering exactly what her ideal clients need. We talked to her about: • how she went from selling bread to selling ads to writing copy • her accidental sales pitch that saved her sales job • how a job in marketing taught her skills that she uses as a copywriter • why she chose her niche—working only with architects and the impact on her biz • how she changed her business to accommodate having a baby • what she does to find clients—she’s a “prospecting nerd” • what she did to raise her rates adding thousands of dollars to every project • how she thinks about her brand and why she takes her brand seriously • the marketing pieces she is using in her prospecting process • how she makes her cold emails feel like warm emails • this mistakes she’s made along the way—it hasn’t all been smooth sailing • what she does to get a lot of “busy work” done and still avoid burnout • the things she has done that have made the biggest difference in her business We also asked Nikita about working with subcontractors, creating a “pretty” framework to show how her process works and why she spends a lot of time with a Japanese floor loom. Nikita shares a lot of advice worth listening to in this episode. To hear it, click the play button below or find it on your favorite podcast app. Readers can scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Seth Godin The Copywriter Think Tank Mel Abraham Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob: This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira: It’s our new membership, designed for you, to help you attract more clients, and hit 10k a month, consistently. Rob: For more information, or to sign up, go to thecopywriterunderground.com. Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 136, as we chat with copywriter Nikita Morell about helping architects with copy and marketing strategy, her approach to choosing a niche and then narrowing it even further, why she created a framework for her process, and the role weaving plays in her life and business. Kira: Welcome Nikita. Rob: Hey Nikita. Nikita: Thank you, hi. Kira: Yeah, we’re excited to have you here. You are one of our members of our Think Tank, so we’ve been able to witness your business growth, and we’re really excited to share what’s working, because so much is working for you in your business. So let’s just kick this off with your story. Kira: How did you end up as a copywriter? Nikita: So, I started in corporate marketing for L’Oreal and George Weston Foods, which is Australia’s biggest bread brand, and I quite quickly realized this corporate life just wasn’t for me. I think it was just all the layers and I just wasn’t that great at taking direction. And it was round about this time I was earning a full time salary, so I was frequenting lots of bars and different restaurants, and after a night out, my friends would come back and comment on the food, or the music, or the cute boy sitting on the bar stool, and I would be looking at the copper lights, or the timber joinery; and I think it was about this time I just became obsessed with everything design related. I signed up to an interior design diploma, and did that as a hobby, and learned how to draft, and draw floor plans, with no intention of becoming an interior designer, just to learn and immerse myself in that world. And, yeah, it was round about this time I thought, you know, there has to be a way to marry marketing and communications with design and architecture. And I still remember the time, I was sitting there reading a commercial architecture magazine, and I though, aha this is it, I just need to work for this one magazine. And so, fast forward six months, I honestly just stalked, politely, stalked this magazine. I rang them pretty much every week, I just said, can I please meet you? Are there any job openings? And didn’t get much back, and then I think finally, just they thought, we just need to get this girl in; just meet her and just see what she’s about. And I went in, and they said look, we don’t have any positions in the editorial team, because I had been doing a lot of writing, I had created my own design blog called Distracted By Design, and writing for so

Copywriter Andrey Adison is our guest for the 135th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We recorded this one on Valentine’s Day and are just now getting it in your podcast feed—hopefully it is worth the wait. We asked Dre about his background, what he helps his clients do today, and what he thinks writers will be doing in the future. Here’s what we covered: • how he went from affiliate marketer to copywriter • what he learned from affiliate marketing that he applies to his work today • why he feels like he has a duty to get serious about mindset • how Dre helps his clients find the core truth they want to share • his framework for helping his clients build their message and audience • how he finds his clients and what he charges for his services • what he’s done to take his business to the next level • why specialization is important and how it has helped Dre in his business • what’s not working in his business today • where he thinks copywriting is headed in the future This is a good one. To hear what Dre has to share, click the play button below or download the episode to your podcast player. And if you like reading, you can scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Rob’s book The Copywriter Accelerator Andrey’s site Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob: This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira: It’s our new membership designed for you to help you attract more clients and hit 10K a month consistently. Rob: For more information or to sign up, go to thecopywriterunderground.com. What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts? Ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits. Then steal an idea, or two, to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You are invited to join the club for episode 135 as we chat with copywriter Dre Adison about growing his business. The one thing he has done to take his business to the next level, finding and working with clients and the deep dive question he asks his clients to help them get clear on their brand messaging. Kira: This is a very special episode because it’s Valentine’s Day, even though when you listen to this, it might be more like Easter-time, but there’s going to be a lot of love in this episode. Rob: Tons of love. Kira: So welcome Dre. Rob: Welcome Dre. Dre: Well thanks for having me. I feel the love already. Kira: Before we start recording we basically shared our Valentine’s Day experience thus far and Rob gives books to his children on Valentine’s Day. Which is so … Rob: And my wife, not just my kids- Kira: And your wife. Rob: My wife and we give to each other. Love for everyone. Kira: It’s so on brand with who you are. I just give my kids a lot of sugar and cavities. Rob: Which is also on brand. Kira: Which is also on brand. Dre: You gift them your own book? Your Brand Story book? Kira: His autograph. Rob: I don’t think they would read it. I should do that. I should give everyone my own book. Kira: It’s a good way to get it out there. Rob: Dre, what’s your Valentine’s tradition? Dre: I usually go out the next day, my girlfriend she doesn’t, she feels like Valentine’s Day is so populated, all the restaurants and stuff like that. So normally the day after we go out to eat or we just spend time together. Rob: So smart. Kira: You can tell you live in New York City when … I feel like all New Yorkers say that. It’s like yeah we don’t actually go out on Valentine’s Day. There’s just no space for all these people. Dre: Too many people. Kira: Alright, so let’s kick this off with your story Dre. How did you end up as a copywriter? Dre: At first, I feel there were a lot of twists and turns to it, but it first started out with me back in 2012 when I was in … about to be in my senior year of college. And I just knew that whatever path I was going down, I knew I wanted to be an entrepreneur. I knew I wanted to make a bigger impact. And I got into affiliated marketing, internet marketing. And just really trying to see how could I make money and how I could build a business of my own, and that took me down the path of affiliate marketing. I was in a company where I had to figure out how I could stand out from tens of thousands other affiliates or direct sales. I quickly learned about copywriting, building my own list and Facebook ads and things like that. So I had that foundation throughout the years. But then the thing that shifted for me, where I really wanted to become a copywriter. Because I made a shift from that to being a high-performance coach, a mindset coach. But I wanted to specialize in how do I help people get over this story

Grumpy Grammarian, Autumn Tompkins, is our guest for the 134th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Autumn has been a member of the club almost from the beginning. And she’s shared her editing and proofreading advice with anyone who asked. Now we took the chance to ask a few questions about her business. Here’s most of what we talked about: • how she went from ink slinger to grumpy grammarian • her business rules that keep her from being miserable • the difference between copyediting (art) and copywriting (science) • the impact of spending 7 months in the hospital and how she dealt with it • how she uses music to inspire what she does—and her copywriting mix tape • the resources—her personal master class—she’s used to learn copywriting • living with muscular dystrophy and what she’s learned from it • the fine line between grumpy and bitchy and the need for lightheartedness • her editing process and tips for doing your own copy editing • the 5 mistakes she sees copywriters make over and over • a few tips for improving transitions in your copy • her 3 favorite rhetorical devices and why they work in copy • how she finds clients and what her packages and pricing look like We also asked Autumn about her copy edit school and the 5 components she teaches her students. To get hear everything that Autumn has to say, click the play button below, or download the episode to your favorite podcast app. Prefer reading? Scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Erika Lyremark Copy Edit School The Grumpy Grammarian’s Guide to Copy Editing Autumn’s Website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob: This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira: It’s our new membership designed for you to help you attract more clients and hit 10K a month consistently. Rob: For more information or to sign up, go to thecopywriterunderground.com. Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 134 as we chat with author, copy editor, and grumpy grammarian, Autumn Tompkins, about the ins and outs of copy editing, how it’s different from copywriting, what she’s done to find success in spite of serious life changes, and we’ll ask, ‘Why is she so grumpy?’ Kira: Autumn, welcome. Rob: Hey, Autumn. Autumn: Hi. Thank you so much for having me. Kira: It’s great to have you here, Autumn, because we’ve worked closely on many different projects. You’ve cleaned up my copy many, many times. You’ve worked with The Copywriter Club on our newsletter as well, cleaning that up and making Rob and I look a little bit smarter than we actually are. So, it’s so wonderful to finally bring you onto the show. Autumn: Well, I’m so happy to be here. It’s a total honor. Kira: Well, let’s start with your story. So, how did you end up as The Grumpy Grammarian? Autumn: So, I used to be a copywriter for hire. I would sling ink for the right price. I had good intentions, write copy for business owners, so their prospects would buy from them. As soon as I landed my first client, I put my head down, never came up for air. And fast forward five years later, and I burned out. Back then, my marketing plan was simple. Find clients, write copy, get money, but part of the reason why I burned out was because that I didn’t put my business first, and the other part of that reason was because I didn’t know what I stood for. Who was I as a business owner and copywriter, and what did I believe in? Right around that time, I got hooked up with Erika Lyremark, and she helped me figure out that the [inaudible 00:02:32] was real, and her name was Autumn. I didn’t put effort into growing my business. I never expressed my personal opinions, and fun wasn’t something I should be having while writing copy or even business, but with Erika’s help, I was able to align my business and my life and my viewpoints so that I could evaluate where I was, where I wanted to be, and what I loved to do. And with her help, that’s when I made the decision to become The Grumpy Grammarian, and it’s where I embrace my grumpy self, but also copyediting because for me, it’s not about how great of a writer I was, it’s how well I could edit. I know I could take word vomit that I wrote and spin it into word gold that everyone wanted to read. So, I decided to transition from copywriter to copyeditor. I could spot certain words and phrases in my copy and sweep them so that the writing made sense, and it connected with r

Copywriter Doug Pew is our guest for the 133rd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira and Rob talked to Doug about his transition from composer of melodies to composer of sales email sequences and a whole lot more. Although he’s only been at his copywriting business for about a year, he’s found traction by connecting with the right mentors and bringing his past experience into his approach towards marketing. We talked to Doug about: • how he went from university professor to copywriter • what Kira needs to do to become a music professor—it’s not easy • the impact of losing the only job he ever wanted and the mindset adjustments he’s made • the importance of mentors when you take on copywriting as a career • how what he learned as a composer that apply to copywriting • his MAESTRO framework for copywriting • the importance of stories and what it takes to find them • the challenges of getting started as a new copywriter • why you should aspire to be in a category of one • his favorite composer story and how it applies to what you’re doing today If you want to know how to make your copy more musical, get this episode in your earbuds. To do that, click the play button below, or download it to your favorite podcast app. Or you can scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Note: since we recorded this episode, Doug has changed his website from SymphoicCopywriting to RockStarCopywriting. Links have been updated but the audio file has not. David Garfinkel Ray Edwards Presence by Amy Cuddy Brian Kurtz MAESTRO formula Toscanini Book Yourself Solid by Michael Port Jason Resnick Jeff Walker’s Product Launch Formula Free chapters of doug’s book Doug’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Transcript and graphic coming soon…    

Former copywriter and Ad Contrarian, Bob Hoffman, is our guest for the 132nd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. If you know anything about Bob and his special brand of commentary, you already know that you’re in for a treat. He’s been an outspoken critic of what’s wrong in the advertising world and he had a lot to say about privacy, ageism, and social media. Here’s what we talked about: • Bob’s path from bad school teacher to contrarian copywriter • the most important personal quality if you want to be a copywriter • how to write in a way that attracts interest from your audience • why he started his own ad agency—more than once! • the dark side of running an agency and the difference when working alone • the things about advertising that drive Bob crazy • why privacy should be your #1 concern as a marketer and consumer • what it will take to fix the privacy problem • what ad agencies are doing well right now (spoiler: it’s not much) • Bob’s complex love-hate relationship with social media • the limits of brand building with social media • the ultimate goal of the work that you do • Bob’s process for selling better ideas to his clients • the problem of ageism in advertising today—and why it matters We also asked Bob about what he’s focused on today, his book recommendations, and what’s next for him—no surprise, it’s another book—and his reluctance to tell us his predictions for the future. To hear this one, click the play button below or download it to your favorite podcast app. Or you can scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Hoffman Lewis Bad Men by Bob Hoffman 10 Influencers Under 10 The Choice Factory by Richard Shotton Dave Trott Where Did It All Go Wrong? by Eaon Pritchard Eat Your Greens by Weimer Snijders Laughing at Advertising by Bob Hoffman Bob’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob: This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira: It’s our new membership designed for you to help you attract more clients and hit 10k a month consistently. Rob: For more information or to sign up, go to thecopywriterunderground.com. Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for Episode 132 as we chat with author, Ad Contrarian and chief aggravation officer, Bob Hoffman, about what’s wrong and what’s right in advertising today, what it’s like to found two successful ad agencies, what copywriters need to know about marketing and copy right now and what it means to be a true contrarian in an industry where group think is rampant. Kira: Welcome, Bob. Rob: Hey, Bob. Bob: Thank you, thank you. It’s great to be here. Kira: Bob, how did you end up as a contrarian copywriter? Bob: I started as a contrarian person and then it led to me being a contrarian copywriter. Well, I started as a copywriter, I didn’t really start as a copywriter. I started as a science teacher, believe it or not. Kira: Oh, wow! Bob: I was a science teacher for a couple of years in middle school and then I ran into a friend of mine who I hadn’t seen since college, this was about three or four years after college and I asked him what he was doing and he said, ‘I’m a copywriter,’ and I said, ‘What’s that?’ and he said, ‘I write ads,’ and he said, ‘And you would be really good at it.’ He said that to me because we had written some stuff together in college. He said, ‘You’d be really good at that,’ and at that time, I was fed up. I was a terrible teacher, and I always wanted to do writing, although I wasn’t trained in it. I said, ‘How do I do that?’ First, I need to say that he said to me, ‘You know those things, the TV commercials you see on TV.’ I said, ‘Yeah.’ He said, ‘I write those.’ It had never occurred to me that civilized people actually sat down and wrote commercial. I thought somehow, they just appeared on television magically and he said, ‘Yeah.’ I was, ‘Okay, yeah. That sounds like something I’d like to do.’ He gave me some information on what to do and I put together a sample portfolio and I took it to see a headhunter. I was living in New York at that time and she told me I would never get a job in advertising and that’s when I knew I had to get a job in advertising because I’m a contrarian. I did get a job and I worked in New York for a couple of years and then I moved out to San Francisco and got my first agency job in San Francisco. In New York, I was working in house at Panasonic. They had a large advertising department about 40 people or so. I got my first agency jo

Direct response designer, Lori Haller, talks all about design and how copywriters can work more effectively with designers in the 131st episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Lori was also one of the speakers at our recent copywriting event in Brooklyn, TCCIRL (videos available soon). Kira and Rob asked Lori about her processes, how she built her design agency, and all of the following: • how she got started as a designer • where her first jobs came from—and how she chose direct response as her niche • how branding design differs from direct response • her 3-step read-through process before she designs anything • how copywriters can improve their working relationships with designers • what separates the best copywriters from the rest • how she landed the big name clients she works with • how copywriters can learn basic design principles • how she makes sure she has the ideas an attitude she needs to do her best work • her advice to anyone growing a team • where she sees copywriting going in the future • what she does to keep learning and growing If you’ve ever wanted to get more out of your relationship with your designer, this is a good one to add to your podcast play list. To hear it, click the play button below. Or if you like reading more than listening, scroll down for a full transcript.   Most of the people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Jim Rutz Gary Bencivenga Doug D’anna David Deutsch Clayton Makepeace Carline Cole Envisioning Information by Edward Tufte Latrice Eiseman Bonus link to an interview of Lori by John Carlton Lori’s list of design references 3 Step Copy Review and Checklist Lori’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for Episode 131 as we chat with direct response Art Director Lori Haller about working with copywriters, the relationship that design and copy share and why they need each other, why she chose direct response as her niche, and how knowing design basics will make you a better copywriter. Welcome, Lori. Rob: Hey Lori. Lori: Hey guys. How’s it going? Kira: It’s great. Rob: So good. Kira: Yeah. Great to have you here, especially to have a designer in the house. Let’s kick this off with your story. How did you end up as a designer? Lori: I knew at an early age that I was in love with visualness, design, fonts. And so I went to training program for a couple years in high school where you had to be picked, it was like some type of tie in with the community college. Then I went to many years of a variety of trainings and college, at different colleges and sites in order to gain access to typography, communications, marketing, design, all that jazz. Then I went right from there into top agencies in Washington, DC. I tried to follow some of the lead art directors of that time and train under their wings for several years. The whole time I wanted my own agency at some point. And finally, about 20, 21 years ago, I decided to leave being a full-time employee and jumping in and starting my own agency. I had already … I don’t know, we might have talked about this Kira, but I’d already done nighttime work and weekend work on the side, all the whole while that I was employed, ramping up for hopefully one day building my client list and being able to go full-time just having my own agency. So luckily, it worked out. Rob: Yeah, and it has worked out. When you were just starting to do the side projects, where did those projects come from? Was it relationships that you had in the agencies that you’re working with? Or did it come some other way? And then how did you develop that into a standalone business? Lori: Both. People in the agencies, maybe they’d have a little freelance side job, I picked that up. I’d meet people, and they would need something done. The nice thing was I got the training under the wings of all those high-end art directors learning, watching. They were so kind to help me learn all those years, and then be able to bring those skills into my own agency. Kira: So Lori, when did you realize that you wanted to specialize in direct response? Lori: This was a big awakening for me. So at first as you know, in just regular agency work, you are designing for design’s sake, doing gorgeous designs, type fonts, and stuff like that. But then I guess once they started feeding me campaigns that would get a result, and they would come in and say, ‘The thing that you designed won.’ Or, ‘We got 5,000 more attendees this year than last year Lori.’ And stuff

We’ve flipped the microphones again and invited copywriter Kirsty Fanton back into the studio to interview us for the 130th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. This is the episode where we answer important questions like… What’s a furfie? What’s a ripsnorter? And has Rob ever cried in a movie? And what disgusting work habits does Kira have? Plus we talk about what the Copywriter Think Tank is like—it’s only open for new members once a year and we’re taking applications right now. Here are a few of the topics we covered: • our favorite moments from TCCIRL and why this year was even better than last • the speakers who stood out—the people you definitely want to watch when the videos are ready • a short description of the “lost” panel discussion • the new round of The Copywriter Think Tank • the importance of balancing financial success with a personal life • Kira’s favorite post from her blog about being tall in New York • Rob reveals that he has cried in a movie and that he can’t even remember the right breed of dog in the movie • the thing that Rob did that still bothers Kira • what Rob and Kira’s childhood hobbies were We think this one is kind of fun. Make sure you stick around for the “lightning round” at the end to really get to know your hosts. It’s easy to listen, just click the play button below, or download the episode to your favorite podcast app. Readers can scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank The Copywriter Accelerator The Copywriter Club In Real Life Event Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Kirsty: What if you could have a yarn with ridgy-didge copywriters and other experts, ask them about their ripsnorters and furphies, their work processes and habit-a-roos, then pitch an idea or two to inspire your own hard yakka. That’s what Rob and Kira do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. And if you haven’t already guessed, today’s episode is coming to you from the land down under, where we drive on the left, celebrate Christmas in the sweaty peak of summer, and wear thongs on our feet. Given everything is upside down and inside out over here, it’s only fair that I’m flipping the tables, and getting Robira to spill the beans on all things TCC. We’ll get the down low on last months In Real Life event, a sneak peak at the new and improved Copywriter Think Tank, and the inside scoop on Rob’s most woo woo moment, and Kira’s grossest working from home habit. Hey guys. Kira: That was the best intro ever. Rob: I might have to leave. I’m a little weirded out right now. That was English, right? You were speaking English? Kirsty: I was speaking English, Rob. Kira: Yeah, but what is a furphie? Kirsty: A furphie’s like an error or a mistake. Kira: Wow. Okay. Definitely using that one. Rob: Nice. Kirsty: It’s a good word. You can drop it in when you’re over here next month, Rob. You’ll sound like a local. Rob: Yeah. I can’t wait. I’m going to like just memorize this, ripsnorters and furphies. Got it. Ready to go. Kirsty: You’ll fit right in. Well, guys, it’s so nice to be chatting with you again so soon. I feel like I’m getting maximum in Robira time this month because I was over with you guys in Brooklyn like what, two weeks ago? For the final- Kira: Yeah. Kirsty: … Think Tank workshop and also for of course TCC IRL version 2.0. So, how are you both after what I imagine has been a huge month at your end? Kira: How are you, Rob? Rob: I am great. I am- Kira: You’re always great. Rob: … we’ve had some time to rest and start picking up the pieces. It felt like it was a success. You’re right though, it was a hard work. It was tiring. Like I immediately went home Sunday afternoon, had dinner with my family, fell asleep at four o’clock in the afternoon and I didn’t wake up until like 5:30 the next morning. Kira: Whoa. Rob: So like, it was tiring, but I feel good now after a couple weeks. It’s been good. Kira’s been going ever since. Like she didn’t even stop. Kira: I won’t slow down. Rob: Because then she took time off … And yeah. So, she’s tired I think. Kira: Yeah. I really am. Now I’m sick, too, so. No, I mean, it was exciting and I just jumped straight into my birthday, so took some time off for my birthday and realized that going out and celebrating with the girlfriends for my birthday was going to be exhausting, so probably not the best follow-up to the event. But it was fun nonetheless. And then, we went to DC to look for a new home. So, yeah. It’s been on the go with some big life changes the last few weeks. I have not slowed down to rest yet. I do need to do that, my body is starting to feel all the weight from the

Copywriter Pete Michaels of Rock and Roll Copy fame is back for a second guest appearance—exactly 100 episodes after his first visit to our studio. A lot has changed in Pete’s business since we last talked, so we asked him about: • what’s happened since we last talked • why he moved from London to Berlin • Pete’s questioning process for making the decision to move • how moving away from your comfort zone leads to progress • the role expectations play in what we do (and do well) • how working with a mentor shines a light on his processes • how Pete pulls his personality into his work and what that looks like • the importance of professionalism—why it matters • why (and how) he’s having more fun these days • the “real” role a copywriter should play in their clients’ businesses • his “selling unique” process and what it involves • the spiritual journey that Pete has been on for the past 2 years • Pete’s take on the future of copywriting Worth a listen? Then click the play button below, or download the episode to your podcast player. Or if you prefer to read, scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Jason Leister Company of One Eric Bakey Pete’s website A book Pete didn’t mention but wanted to Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Transcript coming soon…    

Copywriter Keli Chevalier was the final speaker at TCCIRL19 and she brought down the house with her chant about booty call brands (get the videos to see what we’re talking about). Now she’s our guest for the 128th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We had hoped to get this out last week before the event, so you could have a taste of what she was going to speak about, but it works as a follow up too. Here’s what we covered: • how she unknowingly started writing copy while selling weapons for the Army • what she did as an Army Major (she was a pretty big deal) • how she developed her writing process—the BOMB method—while under fire in Iraq • the “Sitcom Principles” that apply to sales pages and kick starter campaigns • why she likes to work with frameworks and the impact on her business • her thoughts on leadership and how it applies to copywriting • what she did to attract her first clients and get traction • what else she knows beyond copywriting • how to rock a conference (even before you get there) • what she’s done to uplevel her business over the past few years • the people she has on her team—there are a few you might not expect • the process she stole from the Army to get everyone on the same page • the thing she’s done that has had the biggest impact on her business • how harsh feedback changed her approach to everything she does We also talked about the imposter complex and her big goal for the coming year (it’s a good one). Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. Or if you prefer, download this episode to your favorite podcast app.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Text: “LaunchMe” to 39492 TCCIRL 2020 Videos (link coming soon) Keli’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: On it’s way….    

Direct response copywriter Pauline Longdon shares her thoughts about showing up in a bigger way in the 127th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. What does she mean by that? It’s not enough any more to just show up. You need to be strategic about how, where, when and with whom you show up. And that’s just one of the many things we discussed with Pauline, Here’s a short list of some of the other topics we covered… • how she went from army nurse to up-and-coming copywriter • the impact that depression had on her—and how she dealt with it • how her experience as a nurse helped her develop the copywriter’s secret weapon • why she writes “emotional” direct response copy • why we should forget copy tricks and what to do instead to write more emotionally • what she did to accelerate her copywriting business • the worst thing a prospect can say to you (and why it doesn’t matter) • how she makes time for her own business • what she’s learned from her time in the world’s most exclusive copy training program • the must read book that copywriter should read • not just showing up but showing up strategically • how she optimizes—not manages—her time to get so much done • her unique—longer—take on the pomodoro technique • why Pauline invests in more than one copywriting group at the same time • what she’s focused on in the coming year Ready to listen? Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. And if you prefer to listen while doing other things, you can download this episode to your favorite podcast app. Be sure to subscribe so you don’t miss another episode.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Gary Bencivenga Think and Grow Rich Mal Emery Parris Lampropolous How to Win Friends and Influence People Victor Schwab Scientific Advertising Tested Advertising Methods 4thEdition Breakthrough Advertising Titans of Direct Response AWAI Carline Anglade Cole Pauline’s Website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript:    

Copywriter Zafira Rajan is our guest for this un-numbered episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Zafira’s business has really taken off over the past year as she’s focused in on a niche and gotten herself in front of the right clients. We talked about that as well as how she has used events to connect with people in person. Here’s what we covered: • her journey from Nairobi to Vancouver and journalist to copywriter • the skills she learned as a journalist that make her a better copywriter • the surprising interview question that often leads to a new idea • why she doesn’t have a standard list of questions for interviews • the little things she did to start her business the right way • the systems she uses to make projects go more smoothly • the changes she made to her business in the last year—and the impact it’s had • how niching has *surprise*helped her business grow • the packages she has created and what they include • how she uses events to connect with clients • her tips for doing well on instagram (and who to follow) • how to think about brand messaging as a copywriter • a few of the mistakes she’s made over the past year or two • a few details about her women of color project • why she’s excited for The Copywriter Club In Real Life Like we say, this is a good one. To hear it, click the play button below, or simply scroll down for a full transcript. If you prefer to listen while you work out or run errands, download it to your favorite podcast app.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Accelerator The Copywriter Think Tank Laura Belgray Zafira’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join The Club as we chat with copywriter Zafira Rajan about how her background as a designer has made her a better copywriter, what’s she done to gain traction in her business, building relationships, and her secret for networking, and what she’s doing to support other women of color. Kira: Welcome, Zafira. Rob: Hey, Zafira. Zafira: Hi. Kira: It’s great to have you here. We met you a year and a half ago in the Accelerator Program, and then you moved into the Think Tank Mastermind Group. And then you and I have worked on several projects now, so I feel like we know you really well, and the more we chat with you about your business and how you’ve grown over the last year or so. Rob and I are both like, “We need to bring you onto the show and share what you’re doing, what you’re learning, because it’s working, so we should share with the other copywriters as well.” So excited that you’re here, and let’s kick this off with your story. How did you end up as a copywriter? Zafira: Yeah, well it’s not a long journey. I realized pretty early on that I wanted to have a business of my own. I’m originally from Nairobi, Kenya, and I moved here to Vancouver about nine years ago, when I started university. My path probably started just even by doing an English Literature degree, writing every day, and I really thought at the time I would be going down the path towards journalism. And I was writing for the student paper, I started a platform for college women to share their voices that’s still alive today, and then I started managing a lot of social media accounts during that time and when I graduated I was doing marketing for the university. But I was also penning columns for publications here about global news and word just started getting out that I could write and I could manage social media and I could do a bunch of different things. So I started getting requests from people I knew, people who knew other people to do work for them, and then I suddenly had a full-time job but also tons of work to do on the side. So I started to think that I really wanted to make that leap to being my own boss, to managing my own schedule, but I wanted to do it really strategically. So I saw the perfect opportunity at my university to take on a marketing role that was just a 60% position so that I could still be earning money for a year, but having the time freed up to work on my own stuff and build up a business over the year. So I started doing that, and by the time that year wrapped, that was really like my deadline for me to be like, “Okay, we’re pressing ‘go’ on January 1st. Like, you are doing this on your own now,” and that was about three years ago now and I haven’t really looked back since. I mean, the types of copy I’ve written, the journey that I’ve taken, and the clients that I’ve worked with have really changed along the way. but that was how I made the leap initially.

Okay, this one is more than a little different. We talked with bio-energetics therapist and self mastery coach, Ron Baker for the 126th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Let’s just say this upfront, this interview is way outside our experience as copywriters. But as human beings, maybe there’s something here that we can all learn from. Here’s what we covered with Ron: • how he become a “bio-energetics therapist” and self mastery coach • how to be present in the moment and get in touch with your “inner self” • the place that breath plays in inspiration, intuition and passion • an exercise or two to get in touch with your inner self • how breath work and sound has changed Ron’s client’s life • Ron’s experiences visiting sacred sites around the world • what is possible for deeper personal potential and consciousness • the one thing everyone should do when it comes to woo • how woo applies to online marketing Want to hear it all? Click the play button below or download this episode to your favorite podcast app. Or, if you prefer, you can scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Ron’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob: This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira: It’s our new membership designed for you to help you attract more clients and hit 10K a month consistently. Rob: For more information or to sign up, go to thecopywriterunderground.com. Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 126 as we chat with self-mastery coach, Ron Baker about self-mastery and what we can do to get better at it. The levels of consciousness, creating a better life, and what it all has to do with copywriting. Kira: Welcome, Ron. Ron: Thank you for having me here. I have been enjoying your podcast a lot. I was actually just laughing my ass off at the interview that Ry did with the two of you. Kira: Oh, you listened to that one. Ron: I love … Well, I listened to many, but I love the humanity and- Kira: Oh boy. Ron: Putting yourselves in the hot seat. I thought it was very courageous. I’m really- Rob: Let’s not do that again, shall we? Kira: No I think we should do that more often. That was fun. So thanks for jumping in here with us. We were just saying before we started recording that this conversation is a little bit different than our normal copywriting focus conversations but I feel like this would be really helpful for us to branch out and stretch and for other copywriters to stretch, as well. So let’s kick it off with your story, Ron. How did you end up as a bio-energetics therapist and self-mastery coach? Ron: Well, the simple version of that is how did I end up as a nurturer and a guide for people to get to know themselves more fully? Because as I share just a brief version of my story, it will end up with how I went through 20 years of school as well as home and nobody taught me anything about myself, about my inner self, about how to truly trust myself and be fulfilled as a self. So, all of that started out way back when in North Carolina, and I grew up in a home that had some very typical challenges and some difficult challenges, and basically we were five separate people on five separate islands who didn’t know how to communicate and nurture. Though everybody was inherently a really good person, nobody had the skills to create connection, intimacy and communication. We ended up with alcoholism and divorce and all kinds of things to navigate. At the same time, I was having these inner gut feelings that I couldn’t explain. I said, ‘I feel like I am protected and I’m guided.’ And I feel like I’m being prepared for something and I had no idea what I was talking about. I was only like 10 and 11 years old when all that started to happen. I then moved through high school into college and out into the world and had a first career compensating for all of my self-doubt. All of the lack of education about self. All of the fear and shame that I carried and I had some really cool ways to do that. I had a first career where I got to be one of the lucky ones performing over 60 leading roles in Broadway shows and opera all over the world. I was in glamorous positions working with famous people, signing autographs and I was so unhappy on the inside. I didn’t know how to fulfill my self and it was really confusing, because I was living some people’s idea of the dream of success. And so, I interrupted the whole thing and went on a journey of inner exploration and what I di

Conversion copywriter, Lisa Pierson, joins us for the 125th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We’ve known Lisa for a couple of years and have witnessed as she’s built a growing freelance business in a short time—creating demand for her copywriting and her presence on stage to talk about increasing conversions. This was a great conversation that covered: • how Lisa went from journalism and PR to copywriter • why she joined a mastermind when she wasn’t sure what a mastermind was • how she landed her first clients • how she managed to start a business in the middle of massive life changes • why putting your self matters (and how it helps) • when things started to “click” and how Lisa’s business has changed • how joining Match.com and online dating led to her first speaking gig • the impact that speaking has had on her business • what else Lisa’s done to build her authority as a copywriter • what it takes to be more competitive as a copywriter today • what she’s done to make her retainer agreements work • what it means to be a “conversion” copywriter—it’s all about process • how she started “copy training” for companies This is a good one. You know the drill. To hear it, click the play button below or download the episode to your podcast app. And, as always, you can scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Copyhackers Inbound theconversioncopywriter.com Lisa’s Twitter Lisa on YouTube Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript:   Full transcript coming soon…

Launch manager, Shannon McCaffery, is our guest for the 124th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We’ve known Shannon for a little over a year and after talking with her about TCCIRL and several other launches she’s helped manage, we thought she’d be a great guest for the show. Here’s a sample of what we talked about: • how she went from a corporate job to independent business owner • the biggest lessons she learned from working with Dan Kennedy • why she doesn’t ever take phone calls on the weekend • how she earned the nickname, “the product launch chick” • the three different ways Shannon helps her clients — an idea you can steal • how she conducts her initial consulting call so she closes more business • the 5 questions she asks of every potential clients • what she does during her $8K strategic planning days • the 3 Ms—message, market, media—and why you need to get all three right • knowing which events are the right ones to attend • why you should always take the VIP option (if there is one) at an event • what’s working in launches today (and what isn’t) and how copywriters fall short when working on them • how spirituality has impacted her life and business • what the future of online marketing looks like To hear it all, just click the play button below. Or download the episode to your favorite podcast app. And, if reading is your thing, you can scroll down for a full transcript. After we were done with the recording, we asked Shannon a couple of questions about what copywriters need to do to really stand out in their marketplace… we’ve shared her answer to that a one or two other copy-related questions in the Podcast Extras in The Copywriter Underground.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: No BS Insider Circle Ryan Deiss Perry Belcher Yanik Silver Jeff Walker No B.S. Time Management Don’t Make Me Think Brenden Burchard Frank Kern Rob Berkley Secret Prayer by Joe Vatale Wishes Fulfilled by Wayne Dyer The Obstacle is The Way by Ryan Holiday SoulfulVisionMarketer Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob: This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira: It’s our new membership designed for you to help you attract more clients and hit 10K a month consistently. Rob: For more information or to sign up, go to thecopywriterunderground.com. Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 124 as we chat with product launch manager and direct marketer, Shannon McCaffery, about becoming an online marketer, running launches with experts like Jeff Walker and Lisa Sasevich, the role spirituality plays in her life and business, and what’s not working in online marketing today. Kira: Hey, Shannon. Welcome. Rob: Great to have you here. Shannon: Hey guys, awesome to be here. Thrilled. This is going to be fun. Kira: Alright. So, we met you in a Titans master class. We’re all members in there with Brian Kurtz, and you and I are actually in an accountability group, so we get to connect on a regular basis, but I don’t think I know your entire story, so let’s start with how you ended up as an online marketer. Shannon: Yeah, sure. I actually was in corporate America for a good bit. After that stint, I got to say, I think it was in there 15, 16 years, I don’t know, it all rolls together, I lost my job, or they laid me off in a layoff. And basically my mentor came to me, his name is Rob Berkeley, an amazing coach, and he said, ‘Hey, don’t go back to corporate America. I just bought this independent business advisor with Dan Kennedy. Come help me run that and I’ll help you create your own online marketing business.’ And I said, ‘Sure. Why not? What do I got to lose?’ And that’s what happened. Rob: Okay. Already questions. First of all, working with Dan Kennedy, how was that, but how did the whole building that business go? What were the next steps? Shannon: Oh, sweet. Yeah. Well, basically at that time this was, I’m dating myself. This was 2006. Basically Dan, they were still independent so it was Bill and Dan, and they were the Glazer Kennedy Insider Circle, right? Basically they sold these independent business advisor, if I can say that word. And they had one for every major city around the country. He bought the Boston one. So basically we were Dan Kennedy and Bill Glazer’s arm in Boston. We ran monthly Glazer Kennedy meetings for everyone locally in Boston and the Massachusetts area who wanted to have access to Dan and all of his stuff. Then we also created a Mastermind group, and we would bring t