The Copywriter Club Podcast

For the 123rd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob change things up a little bit and go “guest-less”. After a short discussion about what’s going on in our own copywriting businesses, we talk about we’re working on and what we’re most excited about—with special attention paid to our in-person event coming up next month. Here’s what we covered in our discussion: • the pain of juggling two businesses • getting back into things after taking a step back from client work • what we might be testing on LinkedIn this year • taking a Quantum Leap • the genesis of The Copywriter Club In Real Life • when it doesn’t make sense to make a Quantum Leap • the people we’re seeing make Quantum Leaps right now • why we’re “all in” on The Copywriter Club • a few tips for making your own Quantum Leap • why you have to join us at TCCIRL this year To listen to this entire episode, click the play button below. You can also add it to your favorite podcast app. And if you’re a reader, you can scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Michal Eisikowitz Kirsty Fanton Linda Perry Derek Hambrick Raven Douglas Robert Lucas Justin Blackman Sorcha MacKenzie TCCIRL19 Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob: This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira: It’s our new membership, designed for you to help you attract more clients and hit 10k a month consistently. Rob: For more information or to sign up, go to thecopywriterunderground.com. We do not have an intro for this episode. I guess we’re just going to wing it. Kira: Is that your intro? Rob: I think that’s our intro. Yeah, why not? Hey, everybody. Hey, Kira. It is Episode 123 of The Copywriter Club Podcast, and it’s just you and me today. Kira: Yeah, it’s just us, just more quality time together. I love it. Rob: That’s right. Kira: I just want more time with Rob, all the time. Rob: Which is hard to do, because we live far away, and we both have separate families. Yeah, we squeeze in what we can. But I have a question for you, Kira. It’s been a long time since it was just you and I on a podcast episode, last summer. What has been going on? What’s changed in your business over the last few months? Kira: That’s such a big question. A lot. I think in that last episode I was talking about how painful it was at the time, and I think the pain is still kind of there. It’s just changed. I’ve made a lot of improvements to my business, but I’m still juggling two businesses, so I think if you’re juggling two businesses and a family, it’s just going to be a bit painful. But I am transitioning towards The Copywriter Club and focusing more time and energy on The Copywriter Club. I’m just not fully there yet. My time is still very much split. I probably had the busiest fall ever with my copywriting business, which was probably silly, just taking on a lot, building out a team, doing all the things I kind of told myself I wasn’t going to do, and then I just did it all and took on a lot. Now I’m trying to trim that and just focus on building this business and this community that we’re both so excited about, but making that transition is very messy for me. That’s it. Rob: One of the things I love about you and your businesses is that you’re just a doer. I mean, a lot of times you’ll say you’re not going to do stuff, and then you just go ahead and do it, but you have this vision of what you want to accomplish and the people that you want to work with, and you go out and you make it happen. I think that’s really admirable, even though sometimes it squeezes you for time, and it’s hard to accomplish everything sometimes. Kira: Yeah. Well, that’s a very positive way of looking at it, thank you. But no, I think that that’s what I do really well, and that’s also what will hold me back and drive me crazy, so that’s also what I’m working on, is just looking at how I operate and really questioning just a lot of things in my life and business. I kind of view this upcoming year as just a year to question, just question everything, because I think it’s really easy just to fall back into what comes naturally and your habits, and even your strengths that could end up holding you back from where you need to go. What about you, Rob? What’s been happening for you? Rob: My business hasn’t changed drastically. We launched The Copywriter Underground at the end of October, and because of the work and the attention that I’ve tried to play there, I’ve backed off on taking as many clients as I did through the previous nine months of that year and the year before. I’ve done less client work in order to suppo

Copywriter and book strategist, Bryna Haynes is our guest for the 122nd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Bryna helps “change makers” make their change with books that start movements. And she would know. She’s the author of The Art of Inspiration, a best-selling book about writing inspirational books. Here’s a look at we talk about in this interview: • how she went from hair stylist to freelance copywriter • how she found out that being a good writer isn’t enough to keep a business afloat • her writing process and how she finished her book • how to connect to influencers who can help boost your business • how to know what ideas to pursue (and how guiding values help) • what you need before you make a pivot • all the different kinds of copy she worked on and how finding clarity helped her find a new niche • what pivoting has looked like in her business and where she’s headed • how we make quantum leaps in our businesses (and what that really means) • using your “reticular activating system” to change your behavior • the importance of “big” dreams and how to achieve them Ready to get this episode in your earbuds? Click the play button below or download it to your favorite podcast app. And, as always, you can scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Linda Joy Lisa Tener Bryna’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob: This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Club Underground. Kira: It’s our new membership designed for you, to help you attract more clients and hit 10K a month consistently. Rob: For more information or to sign up go to thecopywriterunderground.com. Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 122 as we chat with author and book strategist Bryna Haynes about writing books that start movements, making a big pivot in your career, what quantum physics has to do with goal achievement, and putting yourself out there. Kira: Bryna, welcome. Rob: Hey Bryna. Bryna: So happy to be here. Hi Kira. Hi Rob. Kira: Bryna and I are working together currently, and as we’ve sat down and talked through Bryna’s past and what she’s working on and events she’s planning this spring, I was just like, ‘We have to get you on the show.’ Because everything that you’re teaching and talking about and thinking would really help the copywriter community. I’m really excited to dive deeper into what you teach today. Let’s start with your story. How did you end up where you’re sitting today, and what are you focused on today? Bryna: Well I’ll give you the short version. When I was about 26 I was working as a hairdresser, master stylist, color expert in Providence. I loved that career because it taught me how to talk to people. Prior to that I was really, really shy, and not a very good communicator. I really learned a lot about relationships in that job. But I was also very bored. I felt like it was time to return to my dream of writing as a career. With no prior experience, I don’t have an English degree, I didn’t have any idea what I was doing, I quit my lucrative salon job and dove into the world of freelance writing. I quickly found that just being a good writer is not enough to keep a writing business afloat. I had to really do a lot of learning in a very short period of time. It was really the best move I could have made, because it was totally sink or swim. I didn’t have any way to go back. I didn’t have any way to make excuses for not doing the work and learning what I needed to learn. I also happened to make some really fortuitous connections. One of them with the boutique publisher I still work with today, and one of them with a book coach who immediately put me on her referral list for editing clients. Between the two of them I really fell into, without planning it or even thinking that I would go in that direction, I really fell into the world of personal development, self-help, inspirational books. That’s where I’ve been working for over 10 years. That’s kind of the short version of the story. But it’s been a really incredible journey in that I got to meld two of my biggest passions, writing and personal development, and really work with some amazing influencers in the industry. Work on an individual level with women who are out to change the world, and doing a damn good job of it. Rob: Bryna, there’s a ton of stuff there that we can talk about. Before we get into all of the inspiration and the cool change that you’re maki

Copywriter and entrepreneur Nikki Groom joins Rob and Kira for the 121st episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Nikki is a high achiever who isn’t afraid of trying new things (like moving to America to start a business) so we asked her about her life as a copywriter and the new things she’s doing in her business. Here’s a look at what we covered in this fantastic interview: • how she became an advisor, coach and marketing specialist • why she moved to America to further her career • what she does to prove her haters wrong • what it took to get traction when she first started out on her own • how she “forced” herself to quit by booking so much work she had to • when she knew she had to double her rates (and how she did it) • what she did to book herself out for three months at a time • the mistake she made with her one-day package • how Nikki has expanded her business beyond copywriting • when you know you need to say “no” to an opportunity • what she did to make a bigger impact (and get paid more) • how we as copywriters can make a bigger impact with our brands • why numbers are the wrong thing to focus on as you start to grow • what she’s done to grow her own influence • the difference between being a freelancer and a business owner • what she does to develop great relationships • what the future of copywriting looks like to her Bonus… we asked Nikki a couple of questions about her podcast and what works when potential guests pitch her. These questions aren’t included in this podcast, but you can find Nikki’s answers in The Copywriter Underground. To hear all of this and more, click the play button below, or download it to your favorite podcast app (we like Overcast). You can also scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Marie Poulin Nikki’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob: This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira: It’s our new membership designed for you, to help you attract more clients, and hit 10K a month consistently. Rob: For more information, or to sign up, go to thecopywriterunderground.com. Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for Episode 121, as we chat with brand strategist, copywriter, and storytelling expert, Nikki Groom, about creating personal brands that create a big impact; how storytelling humanizes our business; what it means to lead with empathy; and how copywriters can increase their income and impact without sacrificing their relationships and lifestyle. Kira: So, welcome Nikki, it’s great to have you here. Nikki: Thank you! I am so excited and happy to be here. Rob: We’re glad to have you. Kira: We met in your mastermind that we’ll talk about. So let’s kick this off with just this story about how you ended up as a brand messaging storytelling strategist, creative coach, leadership consultant, all the things. How did you get there? Nikki: Yes. Well first, I think it’s worth mentioning that there have been many, many iterations when it comes to the many job titles that I could attach to my work. And that’s chiefly because, over the course of several years now, I’ve just learned so much. And actually it’s kind of been this ongoing battle like, am I this? Am I that? And I’m kind of … even though I do have all of those labels on my website, I am kind of allergic to labels, cause I’m like, ‘Well, it doesn’t quite fit in this box. It’s like this thing, and a bit of this thing.’ But my entry into the world of work back in the day was kind of a fluke. I was 22, fresh out of university, and looking for a job. I’d done some part-time work in the past for the UK subsidiary of a global manufacturer. And a friend told me that she thought they could use a marketing manager. So, I approached them about it, and they went for it, and I found myself kind of thrown into this role that most of the people at the company at that time thought I was too young for. Now I look back and I’m like, gosh, I was only 22. I was a little baby. And not qualified enough for it. But what they didn’t know is that I always rise to the challenges put in front of me, and this was a challenge that I’d chosen. And so, over the months and years that followed, I poured my sweat, and my heart, and my soul into learning everything I could about marketing. And if I didn’t know what something meant, which was often, I researched it. I sat through endless webinars. I watched what other people were

Copywriter and Copy Coach, Amy Posner, returns to chat with Kira and Rob for the 120th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. (Yeah, it’s #120 even though the intro says “special un-numbered episode.”) Despite our numbering flub, this episode is loaded with great advice from an expert copywriter with serious coaching chops. We talked with Amy about all of the following and more: • how her business has changed from big projects to coaching this year • the differences between copywriting and copy coaching • the mindset shifts she’s had to make as her business has changed • what happens in copy clinic and how it makes copy better • the value of getting a second set of eyes on a project • the biggest mistakes Amy sees from the copywriters she coaches • the problem with too many CTAs she reviews • what’s changing in sales and landing pages from the desktop to mobile • how to establish authority with a client and conduct the conversation • what she does to attract clients to her business • what happens in The Copy Clinic (everything members do) As usual, it’s a good one. And if you’ve heard Amy talk before (like at TCCIRL last year), you know she always brings her A-game. To get this one in your ear buds, simply download it to your favorite podcast app. Or click the play button below. For a full transcript, scroll down.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copy Clinic Copyhackers Natalie Smithson Val Geisler Kevin Rogers Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob: This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira: It’s our new membership designed for you to help you attract more clients and hit 10K a month consistently. Rob: For more information or to sign up, go to thecopywriterunderground.com. Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join a club for a special unnumbered episode (UPDATE: episode #120) as we chat with direct response copywriter and copy coach, Amy Posner about her coaching program The Copy Clinic, how her business has changed since we spoke with her more than 100 episodes ago, how to build authority and what it takes to write great copy today. Kira: Welcome back, Amy. Amy: Hey, thanks for having me. Kira: Yeah. It’s great to have you back. It’s about time. Why don’t we start with what you’ve been up to since you were last on the show over a year ago? Amy: It’s sort of shocking that it was that long ago. Well, I think that’s a lot. My copy business has morphed considerably. I stopped taking on super big projects. I guess the beginning of this year, the beginning of 2018, I still love these really big complex projects that were 20, $30,000, lots of moving parts, a long time to complete them, but I’d usually do a couple of them overlapping. It just got to be too involved for me. It was too complex and it was too long, and I wanted to do things that were a little bit shorter and a little bit more repeatable because all those kinds of things are usually custom one-off projects. I started doing streamlining, what I was doing in terms of client projects and in the meantime what happened last year I ended up coaching The Copy Hackers Mastermind, Copy Hackers Mastermind 3, over the summer when Joanna was away and that morphed into me coming on as the co-coach for her 10X freelancer course and then that morphed into me being the co-coach in The Copy Hackers Mastermind 4 which is, I guess, we’re three months into it. It’s a six-month program or four months, whatever, that ends at the end of this year. From all of that coaching has come … We’re private coaching because people came to me from those programs and asked for help for specific things. Then I ended up launching my own group coaching program, Copy Clinic. Things have changed just really significantly. I’m doing different work than I was doing a year ago, I guess, for the majority of my work time. Kira: Can you just talk to us more about why this big pivot? It sounds like you were just maybe tired of those big projects which can be overwhelming, but this is a big change in your business so what really triggered it? Amy: It’s a good question. It’s so funny this entrepreneurial journey, and I’ve been on it a long time. I just find it … At least if you stay open things change. Different opportunities are presented. You see things differently as you grow and change. I think I really wanted just a change in my work and in my lifestyle. I hate to use that word but what I realized, and I guess this is probably true for a lot of us but I work for myself an

Expert copywriter Clayton Makepeace is our guest for this special episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. If there were a list of the world’s most successful (and highly paid) copywriters, Clayton would have a place near or at the top. He’s the kind of expert worth listening to if you want to succeed as a copywriter (and especially if you want to write financial copy). Here’s what we covered in our discussion: • how Clayton went from running a folding machine to his first copy assignment • what he learned working in the film industry that applies to copywriting • how he went from employee to starting his own copy agency • the raw truth about why he became a copywriter • what he did to improve his skills early on (and the mentors he found) • how he went from unknown to the copywriter everyone wanted to work with • what he did to succeed that copywriters can model today • the storytelling secret he learned from an old coin • where you get the best criticism for your copy (it’s not a copy chief) • Clayton’s thoughts on how you get a prospect to read past page one • the process he uses with his team today to create a package • why you need a stick as well as a carrot in your copy • why leading with a big benefit might not be the best option • the two ways to overcome objections • specifics versus abstractions and why one works better in copy • when you should present the expert’s bio on a sales page • the “bars on the beach” reason he starts working at 4 am • the financial copywriting training he’s working on right now We knew this interview would be great the minute we booked it, but the advice Clayton shared was even better than we expected. To hear it, download it to your favorite podcast app. Or click the play button below. You can also scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Jim Rutz Gary Bencivenga Carline Anglade Cole Parris Lampropolous Dan Rosenthal Agora Paul Martinez The End of America Mike Ward MoneyMap Clayton’s Financial Intensive Jedd Canty Henry Bingaman Terry Weiss Marcella Allison Makepeace Total Package Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob: This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira: It’s our new membership designed for you to help you attract more clients and hit 10k a month consistently. Rob: For more information or to sign up, go to the copywriterunderground.com. Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts? Ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work. That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for a special unnumbered episode as we chat with copywriter and direct marketing consultant Clayton Makepeace about writing copy in the most competitive niches, his checklists for writing more powerful copy, what he’s learned mentoring other copywriters, and how you can learn to write copy for the financial niche. Kira: Welcome Clayton. Clayton: Hey, thank you for having me. Kira: It’s great to have you here. It’s an honor. You’ve been on our list. As I mentioned before we recorded, for a long time, so we were lucky to finally get you on the show. To kick this off, let’s start with your story. How did you end up as a copywriter? Clayton: Okay, well, let’s see. I was running a folding machine in 1968 or 9 at a print shop in Tulsa, Oklahoma, and the print shop printed appeal letters for a nonprofit organization. One day this guy came through, his name was Richard Viguerie. He was in his forties, and it was like the second coming of Christ, and we had to clean up the warehouse for this guy. It was like a real VIP. And it turns out he was a copywriter who was writing all of these appeal letters, and he also did a lot more for us. We had the first mainframe computer west of the Mississippi by any private company to segment our file with, this is in the late 60s. Anyway, someone mentioned to me that Richard was making like $350,000 a year in 1968, and I thought, ‘Whoa!’ And all I had to do at night was just sit around and run the folding machine and read these letters that he had written. And so I figured I could probably write one of these, and I asked the head of the organization, ‘If I wrote one, would you mail it?’ And he said, ‘Well, if I like it, yeah,’ so I wrote an appeal letter. He mailed it and it worked, but I wasn’t smart enough to realize I could actually make a living doing this. It was several years before I finally got back into this and it was basically in LA. We had a recession in 73 and 74. I’d been in the film industry and I couldn’t get work, so I saw an ad for a small agency that needed a copywriter, and I’d had that previous successful experience, and so

Copywriter Jonnie Williams joins us for the 119th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira met Jonnie at Copy Chief Live and they hit it off. We continued their conversation from the conference on the podcast and asked Jonnie about her work. Here’s a taste of what she shared: • How she survived a bad situation and launched a solo career • The first gigs she landed and what she did to get her business off the ground • The crazy stuff that happened at the job she left—really crazy • How to deal with a toxic work environment • How her business has evolved recently and the work she does • When to jump at a new opportunity and how to know if it’s right • Her approach to retainers and how she makes it work • How Jonnie stays creative — the non-copy stuff she does • How a move to tornado alley has created stress and anxiety for her • Creating a personal network while living in a small town • What’s working (and what’s not) when it comes to creating funnels To get this one in your ear holes, click the play button below. You can also download it to your favorite podcast app, or scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Ry Schwartz The Copywriter Accelerator Copy School JustSellHomes Copy Chief Live The Copywriter Underground Start.me AirStory Justin Blackman Jonnie’s website (and bonus for listeners) Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob: This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira: It’s our new membership designed for you to help you attract more clients and hit 10k a month consistently. Rob: For more information or to sign up, go to thecopywriterunderground.com. What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode 119 as we chat with copywriter Jonnie Williams about how her business has evolved over time, what she’s done to uplevel her career, giving up on projects that don’t work, and writing conversion oriented content for the personal development space. So, welcome Jonnie, it’s great to have you here. Rob: Hi Jonnie. Kira: As a copywriter I’ve worked with on many projects, I told you so many times I think you’re so talented and we actually got to hang out last week at Copy Chief Live, which was a lot of fun. Jonnie: Yeah. Hello Rob and Kira, I am so thrilled to be on the podcast. It’s kind of crazy because this is really full circle for me, I started out writing for podcasts and I listened to your podcast for so long and here I am, so it’s an honor to be here and Kira, loved being able to hang out with you and this is a lot more comfortable for me now that we’ve met face to face, and thank you for the kind words. Rob: If there’s any discomfort, it’s because we haven’t met face to face Jonnie, so I’m …… but just carry on, yeah, just carry on without me, it’ll be fun. Jonnie: I know you Rob, you’re, everyone’s homie and you have the best gifts ever. Rob: Thank you. Kira: He’s making me feel uncomfortable, so that’s just normal. Rob: There you go, that would not be unusual. Kira: Jonnie, let’s just start with your story. How did you end up as a copywriter? Jonnie: Over the course of, I’d say probably the last eight years, I worked in two extremely toxic environments and more recently I worked at a small family owned business where I experienced and observed some pretty rotten situations and it was stuff that was kind of so horrific that it felt surreal. It was everything from sexual harassment to extreme verbal abuse and even to the violent death of a coworker who was murdered inside the building so there’s a lot to unpack there. I spent nearly, it felt like every day filled with this kind of fear and anxiety that my manager would get screamed at or one of my coworkers would storm out with tears and so it was just a lot of stress and that eventually bled into my personal life. I’d watched my physical and a health basically deteriorate and my personal relationships fall apart. I’d always kind of threatened to quit regularly but I’d always find a reason to cop out because I really wasn’t confident that I’d find another job that would cough up the 14.50 an hour so I stuck it out. A little under three years and after a miscarriage, a friend had handed me a Tony Robbins DVD and that was a pivotal moment in my life because it evolved into this like full blown personal development journey. I started doing some self work and listening to personal development, podcasts, reading blog posts, and started valuing myse

Copywriter and brand specialist, Sorcha MacKenzie, is our guest for the 118th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We’ve admired Sorcha for quite awhile now, and have followed along as she’s launched her own brand and website. We asked Sorcha about that process and this stuff too: • her path from acting to branding to copywriting • what her business looks like today • what it’s like to work for big brands like Marvel and Disney • how research impacts the creative process and brand development • working with chronic pain so that clients still get what they need • how Sorcha pads her timelines to give her extra time to get work done • how she conducts the research for a brand audits and branding work • the pitfalls of doing group research and focus groups • how she applies the branding process to her own business • what she’s done to develop her own brand as a branding expert • her experience starting her own business • how she came up with the products she offers for her clients • her biggest struggles as a freelancer Want to hear what it’s like to go from working on an Ant Man promotion to the daily grind of freelance life? Then click the play button below. You can also scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sorcha’s website The Copywriter Accelerator Copyhackers The Brand Gap The 22 Immutable Laws of Branding The Copywriter Club In Real Life Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript:   Rob: This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira: It’s our new membership designed for you, to help you attract more clients and hit $10K a month consistently. Rob: For more information or to sign up, go to thecopywriterunderground.com. Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 118 as we chat with copywriter and brand specialist Sorcha MacKenzie about working for big clients like Disney and Marvel, understanding brand strategy, the struggles she’s had leaving the agency world for freelance, and why puppies make the best and worst office mates. Kira: Welcome, Sorcha. Rob: Hey, Sorcha. Sorcha: Thank you for having me. I’m thrilled to be here. Kira: Yeah, we’re excited to have you here. We know you well through both The Accelerator and The Think Tank program that you’re participating in. But I feel like we’re going to get to know you even better today, so let’s start with your story and how you got started in copywriting and branding. Sorcha: Sure, so I’m an accidental copywriter, probably like a lot of people. I was actually trained as an actress until I was about 20 years old. I was going to be a theater actress, and then I kind of bored of the stage world and went to film school. I got an MA in Film Studies. I wrote my dissertation on Grey’s Anatomy like all good people do. I ended up interning for Disney afterwards. I did a year’s internship and I just never left. I got a really good grounding there. I got to do the creative stuff and learn lots more about the marketing side and all that. So that’s really how I got into things, just absolutely stumbled into it. Rob: Okay, so I’ve got to know more about the dissertation on Grey’s Anatomy. What was the topic? What did you do? What did you write? Sorcha: So, it was the representations of gender and sexuality within the first season of Grey’s Anatomy. So there was lots of like stuff about the gays, the female gays, and all of the kind of representations of different people and all that. It was kind of a groundbreaking show back in the day. I’m going to date myself there. It’s been a while since I was at university. Rob: Okay, cool. So trained as an actress. Tell us more about that experience and how that has fueled your career since. Sorcha: A lot like being a screenwriter helps being a copywriter, I think having that acting training is really helpful as well, because you get used to jumping into other people’s skins and really understanding their motivations and their feelings, which is kind of what we have to do for all of our clients, customers. So I started when I was very, very young. I knew from a really young age that I wanted to act. So I was classically trained. I started doing lessons when I was 5, and I went all the way through until the age of about 20, performed on stage, all of that jazz. But it meant a lot of voice work, a lot of the theory of acting, a lot of … not quite the psychology of people, but really trying to help you understand other people so that you could become t

Copywriter Hannah Mang is our guest for the 117th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We both love to travel, so we naturally wanted to talk with Hannah about how she makes her business work while traveling to interesting places around the world. But that’s not all, we also asked Hannah about: • the accidental path she took from lawyer to copywriter • what she did to connect with her first clients (and how that led to more) • how she avoids the mistakes that other copywriters are making • how she pulls the personality out of her clients • the structure she uses for About pages and why she sometimes ignores it • why you have to be interesting before you do anything else • why you might want to think twice about agitating pain with your copy • making shifts in your business and how mindset contributes • Hanna’s tips for journaling (Rob really needed this) • How she makes work “work” while she’s traveling • Why speaking more than one language can help with copywriting • The best places around the world to live and work To listen to this episode, click the play button below, or if you prefer to read, scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: B school A-Fest Mindvalley Kirsty Fanton Hannah on Instagram Hannah on Facebook The Copywriter Underground Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: Rob: This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira: It’s our new membership designed for you to help you attract more clients and hit 10K a month consistently. Rob: For more information or to sign up, go to thecopywriterunderground.com. What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for Episode 117 as we chat with copywriter Hannah Mang about how she became a copywriter, the importance of creating packages for clients to choose from, her career change from copywriter to business coach and mentor, and how speaking seven-and-a-half languages influences her copy. Welcome, Hannah. Hannah: Hi, guys. Kira: Great to have you here. I was telling you before we hit record that I wanted to get you on the show for a while because I watched you from afar and all your travels and stories through Instagram, so it’s nice to finally have you here. Let’s kick this off with your story. How did you end up as a copywriter? Hannah: Oh. Yeah, that’s actually quite a funny story. Kira: That thing. Hannah: I know, I know. Well, it was kind of random, looking back, but I feel it was really guided. In 2013, I joined B-School and for most people who know what that is, it’s Marie Forleo’s course on, basically, how to run an online business and I did that without even having a business idea. Back at that time, I was a law student. I was working part-time at a law firm and I just have this urge or feeling to start my own business. I wanted to be location-independent. I wanted to do my own thing, but I had no clue what I had to offer, so I joined B-School completely clueless. Actually, what happened was that I just felt, like, ‘Okay, I need to put myself out there and just offer something.’ I had gone through coach training when I was 19 and so when I did B-School I was about 24 at the time. I figured, ‘Okay, I’m just going to offer, basically, coaching sessions for people who are just starting out and don’t know what to do.’ So, it was like we teach what we most need to learn, that type of thing. I had just put out a post in the B-School group in the community on Facebook and I’d gotten a few responses. The first person I ever talked to, before jumping on the call with her, I, obviously, looked at her website, and I just started noticing all these things, tweaks you could make and how she could improve her sign-up rates if she just changed a couple words around and all of that. I ended up writing all of this down and when I jumped on the call with her, it was, like, ‘Hi. I noticed all these things and I know you never asked me to do that, but are you interested in what I have to say about your website?’ Luckily, she was, so I gave her all that input. She came back to me two weeks later, ‘My sign-up rate has tripled just from implementing a few small tweaks according to what you told me,’ and, you know, take a hint. What was most important for me, though, was that I felt like, well, it came to me very easily. It was fun, it kind of felt natural. At that time, I didn’t even know what copywriting was. I didn’t even know that was a thing. But I started doing that with more clients for free and, eventually, I realized, ‘Okay, I’m on to something.’ I didn’t ev

Our guest for the 116th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Nabeel Azeez. Kira and Rob talked with Nabeel about getting put in time out in the Facebook club, cultivating controversy as part of your branding strategy, being a “troll” and a lot more. Here are the specifics: • how Nabeel became a copywriter and what he does today • becoming “Dubai’s most expensive” copywriter • why he was put on a “time out” from The Copywriter Club • how copywriters can stop selling themselves short • niching—should you do it or not? • the “Troll Framework” and how it works • why you might consider being more controversial and why you might not • attraction versus repulsion marketing and which works better • what you need to do as a newer copywriter (it’s not set up a website) • the three reasons he’s writing a book • what he’s struggling with most in his business • selling on the phone (and why more copywriters should do it) • the biggest opportunities for copywriters today Want to hear it? Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. Or you can download it to your favorite podcast app.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Ramit Sethi Alpha Muslim The Think Tank Mel Abraham Alaura Weaver Agora DragonEnergy.me Chanti Zak Paige Poutiainen Myrna Begnel Zero to Launch Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob: This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira: It’s our new membership designed for you to help you attract more clients and hit 10K a month consistently. Rob: For more information or to sign up, go to thecopywriterunderground.com. What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode 116 as we chat with copywriter and entrepreneur Nabeel Azeez about his claim to be Dubai’s most expensive copywriter, his Troll Framework, investing in himself and his business, what it feels like to get kicked out of The Copywriter Club Facebook group, and what it means to be an alpha Muslim. Welcome, Nabeel. Rob: Hey, Nabeel. Nabeel: Hello. What up? What up? What’s up, Rob and Kira? This is a long time coming. Second time’s a charm. We tried this one time earlier in the year, but I totally sucked, so obviously it wasn’t published. Rob: I think maybe it had more to do with a bad Internet connection to where you are, which isn’t always easy to get a connection. Kira: Yeah. Well, we’re glad you’re back, anyway. Nabeel: Yeah. I’m coming at you from a cave in Dubai somewhere. Kira: All right, Nabeel. Let’s kick this off with your story. How did you get into copywriting? Nabeel: Right. I fell into copywriting by accident. I used to volunteer at this community center, and out of the group I had the best command of written English, so generally it fell to me to write the email blasts and marketing collaterals. At the time, I didn’t know that you called this copywriting. Along the way I got exposed, or introduced to Ramit Sethi, and he introduced me to this world of personal development and online business I never knew existed. And then I ended up getting my first paid gig, also by accident. The community center was organizing a conference. And my friend, who was also a volunteer, he had his own marketing agency, and they commissioned him to brand the event and create all of the marketing. Obviously, he needed a writer, so he sub-contracted that out to me. I ended up writing the entire website, all of the marketing collaterals, a bespoke invitation for VIPs, and even a script for a marketing video. It was total amateur hour, and as I look back on it now, as I look at the website now, I cringe. But that was my first full package. So now I’m thinking, ‘Yo, I might could do this. I could sell my services as a writer.’ And that’s when Nabeel Azeez, the copywriter, was born. Rob: Tell us about your business since then, Nabeel. Obviously you’ve moved on to other clients. You’re a partner, I believe, in an ad agency. You’re working on your own projects. Once you decided to be a copywriter, then what? Nabeel: Right. I have a bunch of things going on right now. Nabeel Azeez is a direct-response copywriter, author, and marketing consultant. Dropkick Copy is my boutique content studio, and I run that with my brother. Becoming the Alpha Muslim is a self-improvement blog for Muslim men, and that’s my side-hustle. I was a partner in a marketing agency. I was helping out a few friends with their content strategy, but I’ve since moved on from that earlier in the year. Now I’m just on my own now. As a copywriter, I a

Luke Sullivan, author of Hey Whipple, Squeeze This! is our guest for the 115th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira and Rob were thrilled when Luke agreed to share his advice on the show—Rob is a proud owner of the first edition of Luke’s book purchased 20 years ago and headed for an expanded 6th edition soon—because he comes from the advertising agency world and has a slightly different perspective on copywriting than most of our other guests. We asked Luke about: • how he got started in the advertising business • the elements required to create “magic” at an advertising agency • why you absolutely must work with people who are better than you • how to surround yourself with geniuses when you work alone • the power of curiosity and why copywriters need it • Luke’s favorite campaign—surprisingly it’s radio • the moment he knew he had made it • how loving mentors can have an oversized impact on your success • how you learn to write a decent headline and other skills • what it takes to get hired at a big ad agency • the “Alien” moment you need to build into your portfolio • the things copywriters do wrong and why “idea guy” is dead • How Luke recommends you come up with your own big ideas • how to structure your day for maximum creativity • how to get creative briefs that help you do your best work • the advice he would give young Luke if he could go back in time As expected Luke dished out some amazing advice that you’re going to want to hear as soon as you can. So click the play button below or scroll down for a full transcript. You can also download it to your favorite podcast app.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Hey Whipple, Squeeze This! Tom McElligott (lots of great ads at this link) Ron Anderson Martin Agency Fallon GSD&M SCAD HeyWhipple.com Goodby DDB Lynda Edward Boches Mullen Thirty Rooms to Hide In Luke on Facebook Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob: This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira: It’s our new membership designed for you to help you attract more clients and hit 10K a month consistently. Rob: For more information, or to sign up, go to thecopywriterunderground.com. Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, and then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode 115 as we chat with award-winning copywriter, author and professor of advertising, Luke Sullivan, about his bestselling book, Hey, Whipple, Squeeze This!, what it takes to make great advertising, what copywriters can do to get better creative briefs, and what it takes to get hired by an elite advertising agency. Rob: Hey, Luke. Luke: Hey, guys. Kira: Welcome, Luke. Luke: Hello, thanks for having me. Rob: We are thrilled to have you here because, for a lot of different reasons, but a lot of our guests in the past have focused on freelance copywriting and a lot of direct response copywriting, and you come from a different branch of advertising. Maybe, the more familiar one to most people. But we’re thrilled to have you here and really interested in your story. How did you become a copywriter? Luke: Well, let’s see. Number one, I’m older than both you guys, probably older than all your listeners put together. But old school is fun because of all kinds of reasons. I got into the business in the year of 1979, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, a long time ago. And back then it was all just, you know, print, outdoor, radio and TV. That was it, 1979, I was lucky enough to be hired by two Minneapolis greats, Tom McElligott, who’s a hall of fame copywriter at the One Show, and the late Ron Anderson who, ask anybody in Minneapolis. He was like the godfather to the entire Minneapolis ad community. He just died several months ago, and everybody up there … It was a sad day in Minneapolis advertising. They were the first of the regional agencies that rose in the ’80s. There wasn’t anything outside of New York back in the early ’80s. It was just New York and, maybe there’s Chicago, but the absolutely killer work was being done probably by, you know, Ally & Gargano in New York and a handful of others. Kelly McCabe, Slobes. These guys woke up the Minneapolis ad community, and soon followed was Portland and Richmond and, so I was lucky to be in the middle and be tutored by these two giants. So, my first job was at a place called, Bozell and Jacobs, which is no longer around. I was there for five years, and then I had the bug, I had to try New York City. I hated it, didn’t like it. Was there for one year and then I went to the Martin Agency in Richmond. Worked for Mike Hughes, possibly the best sin

Seth Godin is the guest on this special un-numbered episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Of course, Seth needs no introduction. He has inspired millions of entrepreneurs, marketers and freelancers to think bigger about the change they want to make in the world and to create products and services that aren’t mediocre, but rather aim to change the world—even if they fail. Rob and Kira asked Seth about: • the two kinds of freelancers (and which one you want to be) • the enemy inside that most freelancers have to work against • the kind of work you need to do for yourself when you’re not working for clients • the real meaning of art and why we need to do more of it • the most important skills to develop as a freelancer • the role of fear in our lives and how it impacts the work we do • the importance of “smallest viable audience” • being uncomfortable and creating tension • why it’s always your turn • the right time to ship (and why you’re already waiting too long) • the difference between professionals and hacks • genius and the imposter complex • recognizing genius and getting it into the world • what Seth has done “a lousy job” with • what copywriters and others do that drive Seth crazy • how to be a better student of the things we need to know • why there isn’t just “one thing” that you need to do to make your business go This one is full of great advice and ideas for thinking about how you make a change in the world. We really loved Seth’s answer about learning and trying to get more important stuff on your plate. Want to hear it? Click the play button below, or download the episode to your favorite podcast app. You can also scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Jay Abraham Margo Aaron Permission Marketing St. Luke’s Akimbo Podcast This is Marketing (Seth’s new book) Kind of Blue AltMBA The Marketing Seminar Clayton Christensen Lester Wunderman Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob: This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira: It’s our new membership designed for you to help you attract more clients and hit 10K a month consistently. Rob: For more information or to sign up go to thecopywriterunderground.com. Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and experts? Ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits, then steal and idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for a special unnumbered episode as we chat with author, entrepreneur, and influential business thinker, Seth Godin about freelancing and creating brilliant work, embracing genius, how to know when and what to ship, what permission marketing means today, and the impact of showing up online every single day for more than 20 years. Kira: Seth, welcome. Rob: Hey, Seth. Seth: Thanks. Great to talk to you guys. Kira: We’re very excited and honored that you’re a part of our show. Before we start recording, we just shared with you that you’ve been such a big influence in our careers and also in creating The Copywriter Club. So my palms are sweaty and I am thrilled that you’re here. Seth: All right. Well, I’ll do my best. That’s a pretty high expectation, but we’ll see what happens. Rob: You’re going to deliver. We feel good about this, so. Kira: So, to kick this off, you talk about becoming a category of one on your own podcast, and you mentioned doing quirky work. That really stood out to me. What does that mean and how can freelancers do that? Seth: Well, there’s two kinds of freelancers. There are freelancers who seek to have a job without a boss, that’s most freelancers. And then there’s freelancers who actually make a living, make an impact, bend the curve. It’s fun to talk about being the second kind, but there’s a cost to it. I think distinguishing between the two is really important. More than ever because there are laptops, because there’s an internet. More than ever people feel like they can make a living on their own in the world. That plenty of people who are professional copywriters used to be on the client side and then they go, ‘Whoa, I just paid that person a thousand dollars if I only did that 60 times a year, I could make a living.’ And so off they go. Their motto is ‘You can hire anyone and I’m anyone.’ The problem with that motto is it’s based on a mindset of scarcity. A scarcity of information, a scarcity of choice, the scarcity that comes from geography. And in my little town, there’s only one florist. So yeah, if you want flowers you have to buy it from the florist, but it’s not true for copywriters. There’s no scarcity. The alternative is to do the scary work of intentionally

Attorney and contract expert, Christina Scalera is our guest for the 114th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We’re grateful Christina took some time to explain why we (copywriters outside of the EU) might not need to worry too much about stuff like GDPR and what we really should be worried about instead (if you write sales pages, you’ll want to hear what she says). Here’s what we talked about: • how and why she started the Contract Shop • the risks of working with generic legal websites or big law firms • the #1 thing Christina did to grow her business quickly • the contracts you absolutely need in your business • what you need to know and what you can safely ignore about GDPR • what can happen if you don’t have the right contracts in place • the benefits (besides legal protection) you get from contracts • the ins and outs of client privacy • a few things to know about working with affiliates • legal risks when it comes to sales pages and sharing results • working with subcontractors—what you need to know We covered a lot of tricky topics and Christina helped us understand where we need to spend time reducing our legal risks—and how to do it. Ready to listen? Click the play button below or download this episode to your podcast app. And if you prefer reading, you can scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Contract Shop Profit First Lianna Patch Chanti Zak Ashlyn Carter Shades of Gray Frank Kern Amy Porterfield Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: Rob: This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira: It’s our new membership designed for you, to help you attract more clients and hit 10k a month consistently. Rob: For more information or to sign up, go to thecopywriterunderground.com. Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits, and steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 114 as we chat with attorney and founder of The Contract Shop, Christina Scalera, about the importance of contracts, GDPR and other privacy regulations, what we need to know about trademarks, building and growing more than one online business for creatives, and why she collects abstract art. Kira: Welcome, Christina. Christina: Hi, guys. Kira: All right. Great to have you here. Let’s kick this off with your story. How did you end up building The Contract Shop? Christina: Sure, yeah. I got out of law school and I landed my dream job. It was perfect, and it was the job that everybody wanted to get, and I felt so lucky. But unfortunately, a lot of different things were happening at the same time, and I ended up with a couple different health complications and basically had a doctor tell me something had to give. The only thing that I could give was my job. I had to figure out a different way to make a living, and that was where I really stepped into the creative economy that … Well, not as it exists today, but what we know of it. I decided my first foray into this economy would be as a private yoga teacher, because I had a friend in DC, and she was a former business attorney turned private yoga teacher in DC, and I was living in Atlanta at the time. I was like, ‘Great. I can do that.’ She kind of helped me out with that and everything. But long story short, I didn’t make any money. Not a big shocker there. It’s hard to make money as a yoga teacher. Not impossible, but difficult. To pay the bills, I kept doing legal work on the side. This yoga studio thing wasn’t a total wash. I got a lot of clients that were yoga studios in the area that needed different contracts reviewed, or were doing some licensing, things like that, that I had done in my corporate job. In the process, I felt like … Maybe you guys have felt this, too, but I was feeling that tug of the mid 20s, quarter-life crisis, like, ‘Okay, I’ve done all the school. I’ve done all the things. I’ve checked all the boxes. What’s next?’ I was really on this searching path and kind of stumbled into the creative world maybe that you guys are more familiar with as copywriters working with those kinds of creatives. What I mean by that is The Rising Tide Society was just starting. I think I was one of their first 700 followers, and I was like, ‘Oh, wow, this is really cool. This account has 500 followers overnight.’ Then the next day it had 20,000. It was so crazy to watch. Just got in really early with them, went to some conferences, like Creative at Heart, A Loom with Bonnie Bakhtiari, and just kind of different … Making things happen. I was just really searching for some kind of answer and solution, what would

Creative Director and copywriter, Daniel Harmon is one of the brains behind the popular ads for PooPouri, Purple mattresses, Chatbooks and more. In the 113th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob talk with Daniel about The Harmon Bros. approach to creating advertising that’s calibrated to go viral, demonstrate the product, and sell enough to make a lot of money. Here’s what we covered: • how growing up on a potato farm led to a career in advertising • using YouTube to sell a tongue brush, air freshener and mattresses • how a Huffington Post article gave the Harmon Bros. their name • the creative process that led to working with Golidlocks • why they hold “writing retreats” as part of the creative process • how he (and the HB team) knows when something is truly funny • how they cast talent for their videos and look for the “comedic X-factor” • the two levels of hell and how to stay out of both (when it comes to casting) • what ads need to do at the end of the day—even the funny ones • how the HB formula works for both humor and serious ads • what it takes to get hired by an agency like Harmon Brothers • what it takes to turn “gross” into “gold” • the course they built to share all of their how-to secrets There’s a ton of great advice, stories and ideas that anyone serious about creating compelling ads (especially those that work in environments like YouTube and Facebook). To hear it all, click the play button below, or download the episode to your favorite podcast app. Or scroll down to read a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Orabrush Devin Supertramp Austin Craig Poopouri Harmon Bros. The Goldilocks Ad Studio C The Abe Lincoln Ad Hey Whipple Squeeze This How to write ads that sell (The HB Course) Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob: This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira: It’s our new membership designed for you to help you attract more clients and hit 10K a month consistently. Rob: For more information or to sign up, go to thecopywriterunderground.com. What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts? Ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habit, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode 113 as we chat with the Chief Creative Officer at Harmon Brothers, Daniel Harmon, about storytelling and humor, what it takes to create viral videos that also sell products, building an agency, and what we need to do to create amazing work like the Harmon Brothers. Welcome, Daniel. Daniel: Thank you. Thanks for having me on, guys. Kira: All right. Well, why don’t we start this off with your story, Daniel, about how you ended up as the Creative Director at Harmon Brothers. Daniel: My story actually goes back to when I was born. No. Not exactly. I was born in Idaho, Burley, Idaho specifically, and grew up working on the potato farm. This seems tangential, but it’s not. I learned to do sales face-to-face before I ever got into selling anything through video or through social media. What I mean by that is in order to earn money, my brothers and I, we would grab a truck that my uncle had and we would fill it full of 50-pound boxes of fresh Idaho potatoes and illegally, I’m sure, drive it down across the Utah border and go door-to-door or street side and sell boxes of potatoes. We would sell a 50-pound box for $20. Utah was a really good market because it wasn’t Idaho where everyone already has potatoes and because there’s a lot of families there. We figured out that we could make more money selling potatoes door-to-door and face-to-face than we could if we worked minimum wage jobs, you know, as teenagers. The pitch was pretty basic. It was like, ‘Oh, I’ve just come down from my uncle’s farm with a lot of fresh Idaho potatoes that I’m selling to earn money for college,’ or in our case, ‘Earning money to pay for a mission to go and sell for our church. Does your family eat potatoes?’ If they said yes, we’re like, ‘Okay. They’re $20 for a 50-pound box. Do you want one or two boxes?’ It was basically the pitch. If they said, ‘No, we eat rice,’ then we just kind of moved on with our tail between our legs because we didn’t know anything about overcoming objections or anything like that, but it was very successful. We were able to make I think probably double the money that we would have made had we just worked minimum wage jobs. The first vehicle we ever owned was a van that my uncle came down and bought in Utah at auction. He bought it from an old copper mine. It was run to death. It was a 15 passenger Econoline Ford van. Big old white van, industrial strength kind of thing, but it had

Copywriter Chris Orzechowski is our guest for the 112th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We met Chris through our friend Kim Schwalm after they got in a bit of a fight over the best kind of clients. Needless to say, we’re all friends now, but it was touch and go there for a little while : ). Rob and Kira sat down with Chris to talk about: • Chris’s path from school teacher and wrestling coach to copywriter • how he “embraced the suck” to make things work as a marketer • how his teaching and coaching skills make him a better copywriter • landing his first “real” clients—what worked and what didn’t work • the moment he knew things were going to work out • why you need to treat copywriting like a business and outwork everyone • the #1 thing copywriters need to do in order to truly succeed • how to find good retainer clients—exactly what to look for • how to manage the back and forth with a retainer client • what Chris charges for retainers and how it’s changed <– this is good to know • why retainers are better than going from project to project • how he started (and why he ended) a fight with Kim Schwalm • his approach to writing emails <– Kira calls this “sexy” advice This is a good one. As always, to listen simply click the play button below or download the episode to your favorite podcast app. If you’d rather read, scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Zach Evenesh Kim Schwalm Brian Kurtz theemailcopywriter.com Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: Rob: This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira: It’s our new membership designed for you to help you attract more clients and hit 10K a month consistently. Rob: For more information or to sign up, go to thecopywriterunderground.com. Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts? Ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits. Then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work. That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 112 as we chat with launch specialist and email copywriter, Chris Orzechowski about what it takes to land a retainer client, his closely held secrets for writing email that customers want to read, the lessons he’s learned from creating high performing funnels and how copywriting is a bit like high school wrestling. Kira: Hey Chris, welcome. Chris: Hey Kira, Rob. Thanks so much for having me. Kira: We’re excited to have you here. So Chris, let’s kick this off with your story. How did you get into copywriting? Chris: So I got into copywriting a little over five years ago. I went to college to become a teacher because I didn’t really know what I wanted to do. I was a wrestler, so I figured I guess I’ll go teach or coach wrestling and that’ll be my life. And then I got done with my first day of school, my first day of work and I went home and I said, man, I had made a huge mistake. I do not want to do this at all, let alone for the rest of my life. So I started looking around. I said, you know, there’s always people who use the internet and they make money. And I was like, I wonder how that works. And I wonder if I could figure out how to do the same thing too. And one of my mentors, this strength coach, his name was Zack Evenesh, he was one of the early strength conditioning publishers back from like 2003 is when he first started online. He was always like selling e-books and programs and doing all this online marketing stuff. I was always following along with what he did. And I was like, man, this is really cool, maybe I can do the same kind of thing. So I started going down that rabbit hole and studying everything. I started to see blogs and websites. One actually got a little bit of traction, was about coaching wrestling because that’s what I was pretty good at. You know, I had a few articles go viral, I had like a weekly podcast. I was doing daily emails to an email list and blogging and do all these things. And I wasn’t really making much money with it. So after about eight or nine months, I said, this is really cool, but I’m taking six to eight hours a day working on this after my day job. \I’m not really making the kind of money that I thought I would. So let me just pick one thing that I really want to focus on and go deep and, as all the things that we’re involved with kind of trying to build that online business. The copy was the part that I loved the most. I loved writing the emails. I was like, this is something that is so cool to me, like I can literally get paid thousands of dollars to hand people a Google document with words on it. And I was so enamored by that idea, I was like, this is what I’m going to learn. I’m go

Erika Lyremark, known as the “business whipstress,” is our guest for the latest episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Like a few of our other guest experts, Erika doesn’t call herself a copywriter, but she has written her own copy (it’s good) in the past and knows a bit about the business struggle copywriters go through. So Kira and Rob asked her about: • how she became the “business whipstress” • her red carpet dream and how to find yours • how to get clarity around “your thing” in your space • the importance of clearing clutter (real and imaginary) • the types of clients she works with and the problems she helps them solve • the three things to focus on when developing products • Erika’s creation process and how she goes from idea to glamorous products • why it’s important to get outside of your bubble when creating your brand • the biggest takeaways from each step of her career path • how discipline and structure contribute to her success • why she doesn’t call herself a copywriter even though she writes a lot of copy • two things you need to do to establish your authority • how to get better at selling (and why you should) • boundaries and how to get comfortable with them Sounds pretty good, right? We think you’ll like this one. To hear it, click the play button below, or download it to your favorite podcast app. Readers scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Think Like a Stripper (Erika’s book) Mark’d Mastery (Erika’s business program) Autumn Thompkins Laura Belgray Sam Horn Cashvertising Hypnotic Writing Tony Robbins Paul Jarvis Erika on Instagram Srini Rao DailyWhip.com Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: Rob: This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira: It’s our new membership, designed for you, to help you attract more clients and hit 10K a month consistently. Rob: For more information or to sign up, go to thecopywriterunderground.com. Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two, to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You are invited to join the club for episode 111, as we chat with author and business coach, Erika Lyremark about how she became a business whipstress, what it takes to truly stand out, writing great copy, even though she doesn’t call herself a copywriter and what she has done to up level her business. Kira: Welcome Erika. Rob: Hey Erika. Erika: Hello. Kira: I’m so happy to have you here. You have been a mentor to me for years before I even started my copywriting business so I feel like this is just such a great place to be with you right now. Erika: Well I am very thrilled to be here as well. Kira: All right. Let’s start with your story. How did you end up as a business whipstress? Erika: I don’t think that was on my list of occupations when I was a young lady. I wanted to be a race car driver, I wanted to be a doctor, I wanted to be a fashion designer, but I always knew that I wanted to be in charge. Like no matter what I was doing, it’s like if I’m not in charge, I actually don’t do well. I’m a terrible employee, but if I know that I’m in charge, I actually excel at that. So, I mean, long story short, I’m super nerdy, I love learning. I’m hardcore Type A, I’m super driven. I’ve always been really really motivated in my life. I’m also highly creative. I’ve always been really creative. I’m very much left brain, right brain split, so there’s one side or the other. It’s constantly arguing with the other side. In the 1990s I was a stripper for nine years out in Seattle, Washington, where I live now and in 2001, I left the industry and I moved back to Minneapolis, which is where I grew up, and started a commercial real estate company with my dad. It was really … there was no intention behind it. It was like, dad I need I job and he’s like, okay, I’ll give you a job. Just I really want to help you quit stripping and it turned into creating a multi-million dollar commercial real estate investment company, which is still around. I’m no longer involved in the day to day details of it, but I’m still a partner in the company. In 2003, 2004 I loved what I was doing, but I didn’t feel stretched creatively and I felt like I had more to give, and what I know about myself is that once I figured something out, I had to do something. I tend to get bored, so it wasn’t the kind of career where I could really pour my heart and soul into what I was doing, it was really missing that super high glam, super highly creative side of myself, so I started to think about what else I could d

There’s a lot of talk lately about money mindset and “blocks” that keep you from achieving the success you want. In this episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob talk with the Queen of Passive Income, Colleen Arneil, about money mindset and how to discover the mind trash that is holding us back. We talked about: • her path from psychology to money mindset coach • why we don’t finish the majority of training programs we start • why money mindset is important even if you think it’s woo-woo • a few of the most common “money blocks” and why we get stuck in them • some of the questions to ask to figure out your money blocks • how to move past negative feelings from pressing financial needs • how Colleen became the passive income queen • how to build passive income into our businesses • what she would say to people who think passive income is “easy” • selling the transformation that a client gets • how to you earn your authority (it helps to have a niche) • the importance of “self care” and how Colleen approaches it Some pretty good advice in this one. To listen, click the play button below or download it to your favorite podcast app. Want to read it instead? Scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Colleen’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work process, and their habits? Then, steal an idea or two to inspire your own work. That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 110 as we chat with course creation expert and money mindset coach, Colleen Arneil about how she became the passive income queen, why money mindset is so important, even if you think that it’s a little woo-woo, building passive income into our businesses, and how copywriters can build their authority and expertise. Kira: Colleen, welcome. Colleen: Thank you so much for having me. Kira: We’re glad you’re here. It’s a pleasure to have you here. We’ve worked together in the past. I know so many copywriters really are working on their money mindset. Even if they don’t know they need it, we know that they need it based on the questions they’re asking us on a regular basis. Let’s just jump into your story. How did you end up as a money mindset coach? Colleen: It’s actually a roundabout way. When I was younger, I always thought I was going to be a psychologist, so I went to university, I did my undergrad, went onto grad school, did my Master’s in clinical. As I was almost done with my PhD, I had this awakening, at least in the traditional sense of being a psychologist, it wasn’t the right path for me. I’d come so far, I just finished out my degree. Then, I launched an e-commerce program online and love customer service, passionate about it. That’s where I started in the online field. What I noticed as I was taking courses to learn how to market and grow my e-commerce business was there was some people who could teach programs in an amazing way and other people who had so much knowledge, but they just didn’t know how to share that information to actually get people results and help get them transformation. I had spent a lot of years at the university level lecturing and teaching. I just got really inspired to be like, ‘Okay, I need to help people better understand how they can create their curriculums and develop their programs and share their information so that it’s a really positive experience and people get results.’ I transitioned out of my e-com business and that’s how I first came online and was teaching a strategy part. What I noticed was happening was a lot of my students weren’t getting to the end result. Either they were going down a rabbit hole and never finishing their courses or they had a course or they were just not getting out there and selling it. For a long time, I took that on personally as I think a lot of us tend to do. Then, I realized, ‘Oh, this actually isn’t about the program. It’s not about me not showing up and supporting them. It’s that they’re getting in their own way and there’s a lot of fears and beliefs that are tripping up their journey.’ That was when I created my first money mindset program and started to really incorporate a lot more of it in the work that I do. Rob: Colleen, I’ve heard the statistic that only 4% of people who buy courses actually finish globally. That probably includes a lot of those free courses and that kind of thing. That is a minuscule number of people given how much money people pay for courses. What are those fears and beliefs that are getting in the way of us completing a course or training or

Comedy writer Eric Cunningham talks about what it takes to be funny with Kira and Rob for the 109th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. A lot of writers dream of working for comedy shows like Saturday Night Live or one of the late night shows. But there’s a lot of competition and success isn’t guaranteed. What does that have to do with copywriting? It turns out, quite a lot. We talked to Eric about: • the career path to become a comedy writer and what it takes to succeed • how to deal with the up and down of project work • what a day in the life of a comedy writer looks like • how to stand out in a competitive space • why you can’t wait to be chosen and what to do instead • what sets the successful comedy writers apart from those who fail • what does it take to be funny (and what we can do to be funnier) • why he says “Yes” to lots of things (including condo board meetings) • why copywriters should use more humor in their copy • the one thing he has done to up-level his career • where comedy is headed in the future We had some technical difficulties half way through the show but it doesn’t affect the excellent advice Eric shares about what it takes to succeed in the world of comedy—and copy. Listen by clicking the play button below. Or subscribe on your favorite podcast app (we like Overcast). Prefer to read? Scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Streaks Eric’s Twitter Upright Citizen Brigade Theater Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You are invited to join our club for Episode 109 as we chat with comedy writer Eric Cunningham about writing for TV outlets like Comedy Central and TruTV. What it takes to stay sharp as a comedy writer, his writing process and what we might borrow from it, and what it all has to do with copywriting. Welcome Eric. Rob: Hey Eric. Eric: Hello! Thanks for having me. Kira: I’m so excited to have you here. I was just telling Rob, Eric is a good friend. He’s close to home. He’s a fellow New Yorker, and I’ve known him for a while and he’s married to one of my best friends. So, this is a very special interview. I’m really excited that you’re here. Rob: Don’t blow it Eric. Kira: Yeah. No pressure! Eric: What if this ruins a friendship? A long lasting .. Kira: Right! Yeah, just to have you here as a comedy writer and someone’s who’s really outside of our space as copywriters and what we’re doing, I feel like there’s a lot we can learn from what you do day to day and just your experience so far. So, let’s kick this off with your story. How did you end up as a comedy writer? Eric: Sure, so I was not a funny child at all. I was like a big nerd and, you know, liked politics and all that stuff. And then, in college, I was kind of like looking for my thing and I couldn’t find it because my whole thing growing up was being smart and then when you go to college, you’re surrounded by all smart people, and then I was like oh, I don’t have a thing anymore. So, I was just desperately looking for something that would differentiate myself a little bit, or just like find a home. And, they were taking columnists at the school newspaper and I was like, I don’t have the attention span to write a full column, so I’ll just write … essentially this is … I mean this is how old I am. It was basically Twitter before Twitter was there. It was just like short little one liner observational jokes that were not associated with anything else and just like here’s joke, here’s a joke, here’s a joke. And, they published it, and people really liked it and it was different from all the other columns because it didn’t have any kind of through line. It was just assorted thoughts and jokes about like the dining halls and other useless junk. But, it was received well and I was like, oh, I guess this will be my thing. From that, when I was graduating, I was like, I want to work at Saturday Night Live and decided to try for the NBC Page program which is a nice entry level position in the pipeline. I didn’t end up getting it, but I was like I’m going to move to New York anyway and figure it out and started taking classes at the Upright Citizens Brigade Theater and did all their improv and sketch. Got my first job in television, entry level, as a TV watcher for an old show called Best Week Ever, which is so fun. You would essentially do book reports, but about the Tyra Banks Show. It was very fun and from then, you just more and more other television s

Copywriter, coach and former defense attorney, Linda Perry is our guest for the 108th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Linda’s career hasn’t followed the typical marketing to copywriting track. She’s spent time in prisons and courtrooms around the country, honing her skills for empathy and persuasion. Add in serious training as a coach and she’s got plenty of copywriting advice to share. We talked with Linda about: • how she went from defense attorney to copywriter • how her legal background makes her a more persuasive copywriter • her experiment with life coaching and the impact it had on her writing • the “suitcase” exercise that helps with the next evolutionary leap • the “one thing” that has helped her uplevel her career • the run-down on the StoryBrand framework and how it’s 4x-ed her business • what keeps her focused and on-message • a deeper look at her on-boarding process • what her kick-off calls look like and the information she gets there • how she’s using Instagram and video to get in front of her clients • the behind-the-scenes with her video creation process • the questions she’s asking about where her business will go this year • what’s working for Linda in social media • the mindset mistakes copywriters are making today • the “what-if” beliefs that are real and those that aren’t • what she’s most excited about in her own business This is not an exhaustive list of all the stuff we covered, so you’re going to want to download this to your podcast player to hear it all. Or just click the play button below. If you prefer reading, scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Debbie Ford Marie Forleo Amy Porterfield StoryBrand Zoom The Slight Edge by Jeff Olson Tony Robbins Soul Genius Branding Linda on Instagram Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Kira: What if you could hang out was seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, the work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for Episode 108, as we chat with copywriter, brand strategist, and coach, Linda Perry, about why she made the jump from prosecutor to copywriter, the processes she uses to clarify her client’s messaging as well as the importance of getting the right mindset and how hidden beliefs can sabotage your success. Kira: Linda, welcome. Rob: Hey, Linda. Linda: Hey guys, thank you for having me. Kira: I feel like, prosecutor to copywriter that sounds like a podcast. I feel like you should get that started. Rob: That does sound like a podcast, more than just an interview. Linda: Right. I hate to burst your bubble guys but I was defense attorney. Rob: Oh no! We’ve ruined the intro. Linda: It doesn’t have the same ring to it, too. Kira: Linda, let’s start with your story and how you ended up as a copywriter. Linda: I definitely don’t have traditional path, but I feel like even though I was a defense attorney, the seeds of being a copywriter literally started when I was like six years old. I think I gave every stuffed animal, every Barbie, every car, a story. I was always really wrapped up in the storytelling part of life. I always wanted to be a copywriter but with immigrant parents that we’re like, ‘No, no. You need a profession’, I went and became a lawyer. Part of what I loved about being a lawyer was really my paper walk through the door before I did. It was always about telling someone’s stories. After 17 years of being a criminal defense attorney, you get tired, you get a little worn out. I really started to think about who is it that I want to be. With a little life coaching background, I pursued life coaching really changed a bit of my beliefs about what I thought had to happen in my life. I recognize that I really love giving people a voice, and I wanted to do it in a different way. I took the leap somewhere around the age of 40, and just decided it was time to pursue what I had always really wanted to do from even being a little kid. It’s a bit of a strange road but it’s been perfect for me. Kira: Okay. We’ve already talked about this before, but we both really loved Barbies growing up, which is now not cool, like it’s not PC to say that because Barbies are not in anymore. Rob: We should clarify just a second, when you say ‘we both’, you’re talking about you and Linda, not Kira and Rob because I wasn’t really…. Kira: No, the three of us have talked about this many times. Yes, Linda and I have talked about this. I want to hear, you glossed over it, but you mentioned that’s … you created these stories around Barbies and other toys growing up. I’m not sure what my question is here, but I want to hea

Just a short introduction to The Copywriter Underground and an invitation to join our first-ever hot seat call for members of The Copywriter Club. To learn more, go to thecopywriterclub.com/tcu. Click the play button below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Underground Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Because this episode is simply an introduction to The Copywriter Underground and the special hot set webinar next Tuesday, there is no transcript for this one.    

Copywriter Joel Klettke shares his thoughts with Kira and Rob about how copywriters like to show off only the best parts of their business and how that affects other writers struggling to make things work. It’s a great discussion, but we covered a lot more than that. Here’s a look at what you’ll hear in this 107th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast: • what he’s doing and how his business (and life) has changed in the past year • how audits and research have impacted his business • what Joel does in an audit and how he prices them for his clients • how he sells the audit and then hands it off to the client or another writer • why he’s taking on fewer projects and the season of “no” • the instagram-ification of some copywriter’s businesses—and why it hurts • why we end up chasing the wrong goals (and maybe what to do instead) • what to do if you aren’t performing as well as you think you should • what is “enough” • a few ideas for building confidence and the impact on your business • the biggest mistakes copywriters make that ruin your conversion rates • his advice to new dads and why you might need “guilt cancelling headphones” To get the low-down on how Joel’s business has changed since the first time we talked to him more than a year ago, click the play button below. Or if you’re the reading type (and lots of copywriters are) scroll down for a full transcript. And you should be able to find it on your favorite podcast app as well.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Joel’s first interview Joanna Wiebe Case Study Buddy Chantelle Zakarisian Val Geisler Laura Belgray Joels’ Conversion Killers Presentation Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join a club for Episode 107 as we chat for a second time with freelance copywriter and case study specialist Joel Klettke about what he’s accomplished in the year since we last talked. What it really takes to grown and run a six figure business, balancing copywriting with building a second business and being a new dad, and the biggest conversion killing mistakes copywriters make. Kira: Welcome Joel. Rob: Hey Joel. Joel: Hey guys, thanks so much for having me. Kira: Yeah it’s great to have you back. All right, so let’s kick this off Joel with what you’ve been working on over the last year. What’s changed for you? We know quite a bit has changed for you, but what’s changed since the last time that we had you on the show? Joel: I kind of started off the year, I made the promise to myself I said, ‘I’m going to step back from the copy projects, and I’m going to press into the case study business, and focus on growing that.’ And so, that was kind of my mental goal. I thought, ‘Yeah I need to see what I’ve got in that.’ And that went well for all of like 10 minutes, and then projects cross your desk, and it’s difficult to say no. But, I have kind of stepped back a little bit from writing. I’m taking on fewer but bigger projects now, which was a big goal of mine. But I think obviously the most significant change is now I’m a dad, so I’ve got a little guy in the house, and learning to work, and live, and adjust my sleep schedules and life in general around this little person, which is pretty interesting. And then the other side of it on a totally different side of things, I looked up kind of midway through the year and realized outside of case studies, and outside of my writing projects I’ve actually made more money, and had more work on the audits and review side of things, which was a surprise even to me, because it wasn’t something I really willfully thought, ‘You know I’m really going to spin this up and focus a ton on these audits and reviews.’ It just sort of started snowballing. And so, now I’m in a place where big life changes, potential shifts in the way I spend my time in my work, so quite a lot going on. Quite a lot to kind of grapple with, and a lot to be excited about too. Rob: Just for context Joel, do you mind talking a little bit about what the auditing and those services that you’re doing that you weren’t necessarily expecting to be a big contribute to your business. Tell us about those kind of projects, what you do, how they come to you and what you are helping clients accomplish. Joel: Yeah, definitely. So, I’ve always been a proponent of to be good in this business, especially when it comes to the conversion side of copywriting, you can’t just be a good writer. It’s not enough to just be good

Copywriter Kirsty Fanton joins Kira and Rob to talk about psychology in copy in this episode off The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kirsty’s experience includes a degree in psychology and work as a counselor and what she learned in those roles has had a big impact on her work for her clients. She shares how you can use psychology to forge a better connection with your clients. We talked about: • How a travel blog helped Kirsty discover copywriting and land her first clients • The things she did to get started the right way • How her work as a counselor makes her a better business owner • The importance of reflective practice and her 3-pronged approach that she uses to improve • How she conducts a debrief call • The different lenses her psychology background gives her to find the “meaty” parts in her research • How she uses “naming” to discover what prospects are really feeling • How she builds rapport quickly with prospects when she’s interviewing • Narrative therapy and how copywriters can use it effectively • The one question everyone asks—knowing it will make your copy better • The two kinds of persuasion techniques • How she keeps it all together and gets things done • The mistakes she sees other copywriters making (that she’s avoided) There are a lot of great ideas and “psychological tricks” you can borrow to improve your own interviewing and copywriting. And, if you haven’t read her post about indirect hints in copy, you should click here. To hear the interview, click the play button below, or visit iTunes, Stitcher or your favorite podcast app. And if you’re the type that likes to read, scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Accelerator Kirsty’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits. Then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 106 as we chat with copywriter Kirsty Fenton about how her background in psychology helps her write great copy for her clients, the narrative therapy techniques she uses to get prospects to take action, and the one question people regularly ask and how you can use it to your advantage in just about everything you write. Hey, Kirsty. Kira: Kirsty, welcome. Kirsty: Thanks guys. Great to be here. Kira: Before we jumped in with Kirsty and started recording, we were telling her how we haven’t interviewed someone in at least two months because we both had been on vacation, so I’m sweating over here like I feel really anxious, Kirsty. A good place to start is with our basic question. Let’s start with your story and how did you end up as a copywriter? Kirsty: Yeah, sure. So I got into copywriting and quite a roundabout way. As you said, I have a background in psychology, so when I finished high school I went to Uni, did an undergrad in psych and a post grad in counseling and then worked as a counselor for five years, and also lectured a couple of psych subjects at university here in Sydney. Anyway, all was going well and then in 2014 my partner and I decided we wanted to take a belated gap year. We packed up our lives and moved over to France for 12 months, which was amazing. While we were over there I kept a blog of our adventures just as a way of keeping our friends and family in the loop on what we were actually getting up to. Anyway, by the time we got back to Australia at the end of 2015, a couple of my friends had started their own business and they liked the way I’d written about our travels on my blog and asked if I’d like to write their copy, so I said yes. Not that I had any idea what a copy was at that point, but I thought why not? I’ll give it a crack and I did that on the side of a counseling job. I think it was about six to 10 hours a week to start with, and then about six months later I decided to just take the leap and try out copywriting full time. Rob: How did that work out? That first couple … that first leap? What did that look like? Kirsty: People think I was brave. I think I was just a bit stupid in terms of what it would actually entail. I mean it worked out quite well, I think. For the first year I was doing quite well. I was just getting work via word of mouth referrals, although I wasn’t getting to spend my time working on projects that I really enjoyed. I was more just doing whatever came my way. It wasn’t until I joined your Accelerator actually in, I think it was November last year, that I actually sort of started putting myself in the driver’s seat a bit more and building something that today I’m really quite proud of and really enjoying. Ther

Copywriter Sarah Grear is back for a second appearance on The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira and Rob wanted to learn more about how she is shifting to offer more consulting in addition to copywriting, the tools she uses to land clients and how she structures her business so she gets paid even while on vacation. It this episode (#105 for those who are keeping score) we talked all about: • how she made six figures last year (and took four months off) • what Sarah’s accomplished since we last talked with her • what she does to help her clients have massively successful launches • the “gift” she gives her clients that closes the deal • what it takes to create a launch map and feel confident about sharing with her clients • the five phases of a launch plan • the ins and outs of a successful “launch debrief” and how she sells the next project • how she continues to get herself on stage (and what she teaches) • why she publicly celebrates every win today • the strategies Sarah uses to create more freedom in her personal life • how you can leverage your strengths to add consulting to your copy business • her “mindset” advice for copywriters who want to up-level to consultant There’s lots to love in this episode. To hear it, click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. You can also find it at iTunes, Stitcher and on your favorite podcast app. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The first Sarah episode (#32) MindMup for G Suite Abbey Woodcock Tarzan Val Geisler SarahGrear.com/copy Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the Club for Episode 105 as we chat for a second time with freelance copywriter, Sarah Grier, about what it takes to grow a copywriting business past six figures, her recipe for launch success, why she books two projects at a time and spreads payments over six months, and how to add consulting to the services you offer your clients. Hey, Sarah. Welcome back. Rob: Hey Sarah. Sarah: Hey, thanks for having me. It’s so fun. I can’t believe you guys have done 106 interviews. And you’re still standing. Rob: Barely. We’re actually … I think we’re both sitting right now. Kira: Sitting all day long. Which we need to work on. So why don’t you just give us a quick update. What have you been working on and what’s happened since last time you were on our show? Rob: And that was Episode 32, for anybody who wants to check that out, because it was a really good one. So, yeah, check that out. Sarah: I know. I became the take four months off in your business woman since then. But, yeah, I’ve done that. I took four months off last year, intermittently. If you listen to the old episode you can hear how. So, I’ll leave that as a tease. Since then, in 2017, I worked on 52 projects for 19 clients, and still managed to take all that time off. Kira: What? Rob: Wow. Sarah: I know. Rob: It’s crazy. Kira: That is crazy. Sarah: When you have systems in place it makes a huge difference. But also I had this astronomical launch that stood out from all the other ones. We did seven figures in a single launch. Sarah: And it was the first time we had worked together. Basically, that changed the way that I was showing up with my clients, because I realized when my clients grow to that level or grow that quickly, they don’t always need a copywriter at that point because they usually hire an in-house production team. And so I started doing small percentage of consultant work alongside the copywriting work to really serve the people who needed more than just a copywriter. So that’s what happened in the last year. It’s been fun and insane. And then I also, just to add to the mix, I also did close to 10 podcast interviews and did at least three live events that I can remember, where I was speaking onstage. So it’s been a fun year. Rob: You listen to that, I’m thinking, ‘How in the world did you take four months off?’ That’s crazy. Sarah: I had my formula for it and it just works when you have systems and a good team in place. So that’s really the short and long of it. Rob: Very cool. So can we talk about launching and what you’ve been doing to have so many successful launches? I’m blown away. A million dollar launch the first time you’re working with the client. That’s amazing. What are you doing to make your launches so valuable for your clients? Sarah: Well, I definitely helped them with all the components the first round. So from the top of the funnel all the w

Copywriter Colin Theriot joins Rob and Kira for the 104th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Colin is well known as the leader of the Cult of Copy (as well as four or five other related Facebook groups). He often jumps into the club to answer questions or comment on something, and we thought it was about time to talk shop with him. In our discussion, we covered: • how Colin became a copywriter • why he started The Cult of Copy • the short cut to getting people to know who you are • how beginning copywriters can create a copy learning experience • the most important thing for beginners to learn (this skill is portable) • his philosophy for running more than one Facebook group • why he offers a “jobs” group and why you probably shouldn’t use it • the five Vs of the Viking Velociraptor Formula <– this is gold • the “artist vs. cabinet maker” mistake copywriters tend to make • the scalability secret for earning more by doing less • why you need to treat your business like a business • why he tells copywriters to read books that aren’t copywriting books Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Cult of Copy Understanding Comics by Scott McLoud Books by Elmore Leonard Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 104, as we chat with Copywriter and cult leader Colin Theriot about starting a cult and running a Facebook group with nearly 25,000 members. The 5 Vs of the Viking Velociraptor Formula, what most copywriters are doing wrong today and why, when asked about his favorite books about copywriting, he doesn’t recommend books about copywriting. Kira: Welcome Colin. Rob: Hey Colin. Colin: Hi guys. Thanks for having me. Kira: Yeah, great to have you here. Colin: Sweet. Kira: So Colin, let’s kick this off with your story. How did you end up as a copywriter? Colin: I was working at an internet marketing company. It was an eCommerce company. I was working there as a graphic designer/SEO analyst/content writer. One of the owners of that eCommerce site and his other marketing partner in other ventures, they decided to launch this thing called StomperNet and I was working there making their web pages at the time, so I helped them, stayed up on launch night, making some HTML for that. And they launched it and it was a big record breaking launch. I think was like $24 million at the time. And so I got called over from the eCommerce site to go work on that. And then while we were wiring, my boss at the time, Andy Jenkins, his house for Wi-Fi so we could work there legally, while I was doing that, the writer we had on staff at the time, I can’t remember to this day if she was sick or if we were just busy and had too much stuff going on, but it was sort of like a voluntary basis, ‘Hey, we need this sales letter rewritten, because we’re about to relaunch with all these new features we’ve added.’ So I took a shot at it and Andy was like, ‘This is pretty good. Do you like doing it?’ And I’m like, ‘Yeah. It’s easier than wiring your house for Wi-Fi.’ And he’s like, ‘Well cool, because you’re the chief marketing copywriter, so get good at it.’ Over the next, I think it was a little under two years, I worked with all the high end marketing faculty they had there that were all copywriters in their own right and written things and sold their own products for years. And I got to write all the emails for their list of 100,000 subscribers that they had left over from the launch. I got to write all their blog posts, all the affiliate promos, all the slides. I wrote a draft, at least, of everything we’ve ever launched. They had a lot of chefs in that kitchen, as it were. So, I didn’t necessarily write the final draft of everything, but I had input and I didn’t realize it at the time, but it was basically like hard core Copywriting University, because before I started doing the job, I had no idea you could even be a copywriter. I just kind of presumed advertising was written by somebody that worked at the company, in there as a side project. I didn’t realize it was a highly paid specialist field or anything. But I picked it up, I learned on the job. And then I went freelance when that company changed hands, the bosses had what I refer to as a business divorce, and they went their

Copywriter, course creator, and coach, Belinda Weaver joins Kira and Rob for the 103rd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Belinda’s also the co-host of the popular Hot Copy podcast. We talked with Belinda about the variety of ways she’s created income streams for her business. Note: links and a full list of what we discussed is coming soon. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode 103 as we chat with freelance copywriter and coach Belinda Weaver about building an information business as a copywriter, what she’s learned coaching other writers, creating courses, and running one of the most popular copywriting podcasts, and how tap dancing makes her a better copywriter. Welcome, Belinda. Rob: Hey, Belinda. Belinda: Hi, guys. It’s really great to be here. Tap dancing, flashback. Oh my gosh. Rob: Should we jump into tap dancing immediately, or do we want to save that to the end? Belinda: It’s completely up to you. I think it’s a lovely hook we can leave people with. Kira: Let’s save that for the end. Let’s start with your story, Belinda, and how you got into copywriting. Belinda: Well, like most people, had a day job I didn’t really like, was looking for an opportunity to do something else. I was working in marketing in Melbourne. We lived just over an hour out of the city, so two plus hours of commuting every day, plus a job I didn’t really like. My husband and I started talking about a family, and I started thinking, ‘Well, how is this going to work?’ So I was open to new opportunities, and then I got taken to this kind of sales day with the job. It’s a lot of people standing up, giving presentations, doing their pitches. One of them was about copywriting. Now, I did copywriting every day, but I didn’t know it was a thing you could actually do as a job on its own. So when, at the end of the presentation, this copywriter started talking about running your own business as a freelance copywriter, I didn’t listen to the rest of the day, because that was the idea that I’d been waiting for. As soon as we got back to work, I quietly registered my business. Maybe not that day. I took a day or two to brainstorm a name, but I registered my business. Then, while I was pretending to work, I started marketing and figuring out how to run a business and developing service packages, and then being on social media, and I started getting work. So I did that for about six months. I did my day job. I worked, did copywriting at night and on the weekends. Then after about six months, I was confident enough in my marketing abilities to know that I could get more work. So I was getting regular leads coming in, and I thought, ‘Yeah, I can do this.’ Then on my last day, rather than walking through the office going, ‘Screw you all,’ I put together a presentation for the MD, and I said, ‘I can save you $20,000 on your marketing if you keep me on at my new freelance rate,’ and I just stopped doing all the time-wasting activities. I divided my job into value tasks and low-value tasks, and I had this whole little spiel, and he actually agreed before the presentation had finished. So I had my first client before the end of the day. Rob: Wow. I mean, that’s so smart. Love it. What resources did you use when you made that first decision to move away from marketing and into copywriting, to start writing? Were there books or things that you turned to, to teach yourself the skills, or did you just go at it? Belinda: I’m a learner, so I took a course. I took a copywriting course, because I think many copywriters, I was doing it, I loved it, I had trust in my instincts, but I wasn’t aware of the construction element of copywriting. Once I learned that, I felt much more confident in my ability. A lot of the things I was doing anyway, but I wasn’t applying a method to it. So I did a course. I started reading books. I started reading a lot of blogs and following a lot of copywriters to see not only how they wrote, but how they put their business together, how they did their marketing, and gleaning any kind of tips I could get about copywriting as well. Kira: What did those early days look like for you as far as finding those clients? So

Community manager Harmony Eichsteadt is the guest for the 102nd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We chatted with Harmony about a wide range of topics related to connecting with clients to building communities for both customers and peers. Harmony knows a thing or two about building healthy communities—she’s done it with groups like The Good Life Project and NationBuilder. We asked Harmony about: • how she became a community manager (with stops as a dating coach and cancer survivor along the way) • the first steps to take to build a community around ourselves • who is better for community building: introverts or extroverts • the biggest misconceptions around building a community • where you can build a community and how (it’s not just online) • some of the benefits of building and belonging to a community of copywriters • how to connect with others within communities you don’t own • whether there’s a growing hunger for new communities today • why everyone is already a community leader and how to get better • the differences between online and offline community interaction • how to connect with people in the real world • how copywriters can build deeper connections with other writers We also asked Harmony for her advice about when you run an event (we’re starting to think about round two for TCC IRL) and what it takes to win a poetry slam. She let’s us in on the fact that we probably won’t win one. Maybe we’ll have Harmony to our next event to perform a bit of her award-winning poetry—yeah? To hear this one, simply click the play button below, or download it to your favorite podcast app. Want to read it instead? Scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Inward 2019 Event Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 102 as we chat with professional community builder, Harmony Eichsteadt about what it takes to create strong communities, how to work a room online and off, what she does to land and rock a speaking gig, and writing poetry good enough to win a poetry slam. Kira: Welcome Harmony. Rob: Hey Harmony. Harmony: Thanks so much for having me. Kira: We’re excited that you’re here so we can talk about something that we really haven’t covered on this podcast. All about community development, community engagement and relationships. So, why don’t we kick it off with your story. How did you end up as a relationship and community expert? Harmony: It’s such a good question and I think for many of us we can start the story at a lot of different places. So, the more deeply I get into my work, the more I can see tendrils from even my childhood of like, ‘I’ve always been very fascinated about connecting people.’ So, I think there’s some thread that was maybe there from a young age, but how it crystallized for me was actually I started out as a dating coach, which I think is, now I think is very funny. I spent a few years working with people on writing dating profiles, on how to flirt, and think about developing relationships. That morphed into this current career for a few different reasons. One is that I got diagnosed with thyroid cancer when I was 29 and that was not what I was planning to do with my 29th year on the planet. I had other items on my agenda, but it threw a monkey wrench in things. As is the case for lots of us when we have a big surprising life change, it forces us to look at our priorities, what we care about and who we really are. Part of what emerged for me in that process was that I noticed I was really gathering all these people around me. That seems very obvious and normal in that time, but I started to see other people going through difficult circumstances alone. I realized that there was some combination of having already built a really strong community and then knowing what to do with it. I started to reflect back on the dating coaching that I was doing, and so much of that was actually teaching people how to build communities, and how to have a lot of rich relationships, many of which, or some of which would turn romantic, but not all of them because we have a lot of friends, it’s easier to meet someone to date. So, I started to really refine like, what I care about is actually just teaching people about connecting. I want everyone to have the kind of network support that can uplift you so that when life takes a

We’re kicking off our second century of podcasts by flipping the tables and answering your questions for the 101st episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Justin Blackman (of 100-Headline-Project fame) grabs the microphone to ask Kira and Rob all about: • who Rob and Kira really are • how Rob and Kira met and decided to start The Copywriter Club together • where the idea for The Copywriter Accelerator came from • the story behind the creation of the first Copywriter Club event • why we shut down our second program and what we learned • some of the other mistakes we’ve made over the past year or so • how The Copywriter Club has changed our own businesses • the progress we’ve made on the goals we shared in episode 50 • how the podcast (and our guests) have helped us improve our writing and processes • what we’ve learned going through The Copywriter Accelerator for the third time • when we plan on taking a break from learning • what’s coming up for The Copywriter Club in the coming months Plus Justin asked a long list of “lightning round” questions that we do our best to answer—but let’s face it, we’re not very good at the whole quick answer, lightning fast thing. So, if you want to know more about Rob and Kira and a bit of what’s going on behind the scenes at the club, download this one to your favorite podcast player. You can also hit the play button below or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Justin Blackman The Copywriter Accelerator The Copywriter Club IRL Event (link coming soon) Brian Kurtz Kim Krause Schwalm Amy Posner The Copy Clinic Tarzan Kay Sam Woods Joe Schriefer Sarah Grear Sean D’Souza Bond Halbert Tanya Geisler The Copywriter Club book lists Dan Kennedy Wikipedia’s List of Lists Seth Godin Eman Zabi Mel Abraham Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: Justin: What if you could hang out with two moderately talented copywriters, who spend all day asking seriously talented copywriters, about their successes and failures, they’re work processes and their habits, and steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what I’m going to do with Kira and Rob this week, at The Copywriter Club Podcast. You’re invited to join the club for episode 101 as I turn the microphone on Rob Marsh and Kira Hug and dive into what it’s like to run a gigantic Facebook group, interview copywriting royalty, develop a training program, and create a think tank, on top of managing their own work. Rob, Kira, welcome to your show. Rob: Moderately talented, might give us more credit than what we deserve. Might be overstating things a little. Kira: That’s true, I’m flattered. Thank you. Justin: Exactly. Rob: Let’s do this Justin, let’s do it. Justin: Let’s do it. So, I’m going to turn the tables a little bit. We’re going to get into what it’s like to run The Copywriter Club and Facebook group, your Accelerator, The Think Tank, your own client work. So we’re going to get into it a little bit about who are Rob and Kira? I know you guys, you’re a bit of an unlikely pair. Rob you’re a little more formal, a little buttoned up and corporate. Kira, a little wild child, dressing up like a pirate, you got your hair colored like a troll. But somehow you guys, you make it work. So I want to hear a little bit of rundown about how you guys met, and what’s the history of the TCC. Kira: Rob, I’ll let you tell our Tinder story. Rob: I think you tell it better than I do actually though. So, yeah, the short story is that, yeah, we met on Tinder and we both swiped right, and it just was meant to be. And then the longer version is that it had nothing to do with Tinder and we met in a mastermind group run by Copy Hackers. And it took us about maybe a year, but over that year we sort of got to know each other a little bit, shared our copy with each other. And at the end of a year, a few people had started suggesting that we should be doing something together, some kind of project or something and I had explored the idea of doing a podcast and reached out to Kira and said ‘Hey, I’ve got this domain, The Copywriter Club. I don’t know what we should do with it, maybe we should do a podcast.’ And she was game. And that’s all she wrote, it’s been fun ever since. Kira: Yeah, that’s it. I never thought about a partnership necessarily. I wasn’t looking for a partner. But it was interesting that several people … not just one, mentioned you two should do something together. And I think we were both like, what, huh? And then when Rob mentioned his idea around The Copywriter Club, I was just in because I was looking for a podcast. I wanted to host a podcast again, I had had one previously and I also love building communities. And I thought Rob was a decent human being and we wou

Former copywriter and current business advisor, Jay Abraham is the guest for the 100th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast with Kira Hug and Rob Marsh. Jay is the perfect guest for this milestone episode because Jay teaches the importance of pre-eminence—and what is more pre-eminent than appearing as the expert on the 100th episode of this podcast? And Jay delivered. Here’s a look at some of what we covered: • how he went from copywriter to business advisor to thousands of companies • the expert authors he learned from when he started out • how he accidentally got into the seminar business • the business ideas (USP, LTV, Risk Reversal, Allowable Cost) you should know • how to deliver continuous breakthroughs for our clients • copy versus concept and which one matters most • why you shouldn’t offer stuff for free (and what you should do instead) • the biggest challenge you have to overcome with your audiences • why achieving pre-eminence is so important (and how you do it) • the shortcuts to engineering a continuous stream of breakthroughs • how to get mindshare for the clients you’re working for • a few of the places copywriters should do research in order to be great • what it takes to be an “original synthesizer” (versus a plagiarist). • who the client you’re really working for is (it might not be your client) • the thing that bugs Jay the most about list building Jay also shared a ton of bonuses for listeners to the podcast. Check out the links to those resources below. Then, click the play button to listen to the interview, or scroll down for a full transcript. And of course, you can find this episode on iTunes, Stitcher or in your favorite podcast app. Go get it! The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Dan Rosenthal Claude Hopkins George Hotchkiss Victor Schwab Robert Collier Entrepreneur Magazine International Living Scientific Advertising My Life in Advertising Albert Lasker Tony Robbins Steven Covey Brian Tracy Mary Lou Tyler The Deming Institute A Technique for Producing Ideas The Three Bonuses (The 100 Greatest Headlines, 37 Million Dollar Headlines, and Copywriting Formulas) 50 Shades of Jay Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits and steal an idea to inspire your own work. That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 100 as we chat with Jay Abraham, the founder and CEO of the Abraham Group about how he solved business problems for clients in more than 7,000 industries, thinking strategically about copywriting and what we offer our clients, the importance of preeminence and what we can do to find new breakthroughs in our own businesses. Hey, Jay. Kira: Welcome, Jay. Jay: Thank you very much. It’s a distinction and an honor to be podcast number 100. Rob: It is. In fact, we were talking to Sonny, who’s on your team and she’s in our group. She suggested, ‘Hey, you know, I don’t know if you’re doing anything interesting for your hundredth episode, but maybe we could connect with you.’ We thought, actually would make perfect sense to have you come on for number 100 because of how you talk about preeminence and to have a super special guest like you on episode 100. We’re thrilled to have you here, so thank you so much. Jay: It’s my pleasure. As I told you, at a certain point in one’s career, you become very focused on being privileged to impact people’s thinking lives and the impact they can make on multitudes of others. It goes both ways. I am taking the gloves off. You guys have access to whatever you want. I don’t know where you’re going to take it but I like surprises. Rob: Cool. We like to start with people’s stories. I wonder, Jay, you started as a copywriter, I believe. Will you tell us how you went from copywriter to the kind of an advisor to thousands of companies in thousands of industries, literally. How’d that all happen? Jay: It’s all tied to an accidental event which I wouldn’t recommend for everybody but it had a profound positive, ultimate outcome. I got married the first time — I’ve been married a total of three times and I’m not recommending it but I’m just giving you a background — at 18. I had two kids by that time I was 20. I had no formal education. I had the needs of somebody about 40 and nobody cared. The only jobs I could get weren’t really jobs. They were crazy, created on the spot situations that entrepreneurs would give me where my purpose was to create value where it didn’t exist, develop a new distribution channel or figure out how to sell a ton of their product without any marketing budget or persuade 1,000 radio s

This is the last episode of the podcast before we hit triple digits—and it’s a good one. Health copywriter Jason Rutkowski joins us for the 99th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast and we covered a lot of ground, from Jason’s secrets for connecting with both mentors and clients to a look inside his copy mastery process (he sent us a screen capture of his file system so you can see what he’s talking about during the podcast). Here’s a look at what we covered: • how Jason failed his way to copywriting as a career • finding his first few clients and figured out his niche • the “one thing” he tried that resulting in connecting with good clients • the strategy Jason followed to get A-list copywriters to share their stories with him • the single most important thing you can do at live marketing events • what it’s like to be “cubbed” by an A-list copywriter • why you absolutely need to reverse engineer great copy to get better • the difference between a copywriter and a master copywriter • the foundational copywriting reference everyone should study • Jason’s research process (and how he reverse engineers A-list research) • how to get started writing in the health industry • the gmail hack for studying the market you want to write for • the reason A-list copywriters work with copywriters (an opportunity?) If you’re interested in not just being a copywriter, but becoming a great copywriter, you’re going to want get this one. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. And of course, you can find it on iTunes, Stitcher or in your favorite podcast app.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Clayton Makepeace Parris Lampropolous Marcella Allison Paul Martinez John Carlton Gary Halbert Jim Rutz Carline Cole David Deutsch AWAI Barnaby Kalan The Single Best Way to Get Clients Parris’ book list On Writing Well by William Zinsser The Brilliance Breakthrough by Eugene Schwartz Brian Kurtz New Market Health Health Sense Media Dr. Gundry Advanced Bionutritionals Nature City Patriot Health Alliance The Agora JasonRutkowski.com Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for Episode 99 as we chat with freelance copywriter Jason Rutkowski about writing in the health and wellness niche, investing in himself and his expertise, his business and writing processes, and what it took to gain traction as a copywriter when he was just starting out. Rob: Hey Jason. Kira: Welcome Jason. Jason: Hey Kira, hey Rob. Kira: How’s it going? Glad you’re here. Jason: Oh no, I’m excited. I haven’t done one of these in a while, so I was excited to do it with you. Rob: Definitely took a little time to get our schedules aligned. We’ve been trying to make this happen for a little while, because we know a little bit about you and where you write and we think it’ll be a great conversation, so we’re glad to have you here. Jason: Yeah, definitely. Kira: All right, so let’s kick this off. Jason, how did you end up as a copywriter? Jason: Okay, I’ll give you the quick story about this. I was 19. I just finished my freshman year of college. I got an internship at a normal 9-to-5 job. And I realized I hated it. I was like, oh man. I saw all these people who worked in an office, you know, 30, 40 years; I’m like, is this really going to be my life? And also at the same exact time, I was on the internet one day and I found an internet marketing forum. And I was like, what’s an internet marketing forum? I don’t know. So I go on it and I see all these guys, like ‘Yeah I just made 200 grand this year, 500 grand this year. I work from home; I’m sitting at my desk all day.’ I’m like what? How is that even possible? So I started getting really into it. And then I learned about traffic drivers and marketing and product creation and all these things. And I was really confused. And I was like 19, 20 years old. So I heard about copywriting, but I didn’t decide to be a freelance copywriter right away. I was like, you know what I’m going to do, I’m going to create my own products; I’m going to do Google Adwords; and I’m going to drive traffic. I’m going to do the whole thing, like from start to finish. And I horribly failed. You know, I was going to school full-time, and then I was doing this part-time, and I was just failing and failing. And then after a couple of years of that, I decided, okay this isn’t working. I’m just going to do copywriting because I think this is what I like most. I don&

For the 98th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob bring back one of the most popular guests from the first few weeks of 2017—Tarzan Kay. Tarzan’s been a great friend to us (and the club) so we were thrilled to have her back to talk about how her business has changed in the year since we last talked and how having a baby forced her to change how she worked. We talked about: • how her business has changed since we talked more than a year ago • why (and how) she has moved to day rates for most of her projects today • how day rates work and why clients like them • what day-rate clients can expect as far as deliverables go • what the day rate process and schedule looks like • the next step for clients after they book their first day • the place mindset plays with day rates and asking for more money • ideas for stepping out of your own thoughts to work on mindset • how you can identify your mindset around money • her approach to affiliate launches and what she does to succeed • the #1 lesson she’s learned from working with affiliates • how she found balance through a major life-change • her advice to copywriters who want to take their business to the next level Tarzan has built a following among copywriters working on their mindsets and looking for new models for their business. If you’re like them, you’ll want to listen in on this discussion. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. And of course you can also find it at iTunes, Stitcher or your favorite podcast app.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Tarzan’s first episode Denise Duffield Thomas Laura Belgray Julie Stoian B-School Copy School Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 98 as we chat with freelance copywriter, Tarzan Kay, for the second time about her business and what’s changed over the past year. What it takes to do a successful affiliate promotion, getting over money issues and selling day rate intensive packages. Kira: Welcome back Tarzan. Rob: Hey Tarzan. Tarzan: Thanks for having me back guys. Rob: We are so excited to have you back. In fact, like you’re one of the very rare few people that have come back to the show more than once. So thanks for doing that. Tarzan: It’s a real honor you know. I actually think you guys should do more episodes just the two of you, because I really like those ones. They’re some of my favorites. Kira: Awe, thank you for saying that. Rob: Now, we’ll let you go and Kira and I will talk ourselves. Kira: And this interview is over, we are done. Rob: Thanks, thanks for that. Hey let’s start out by you catching us up on what’s been going on in your business over the last year. Because, the last time we talked, and people can go back to that episode 9, 89 episodes ago, and check out what you said then. What’s been going on for you over the past year? Tarzan: Well, a lot has changed. So in August, I was surprised to learn that I was pregnant. Total surprise baby, which I wasn’t planning for at all, and it threw a major monkey wrench into my plans, in the best way though. So, I had to adapt, and figure out how I was going to take time off and really change, kind of restructure a little bit. For one thing, I used way more hours with my VA and I’ve scaled that up since learning that I was pregnant. In January, and February since then, I’ve pretty much transitioned to day rate work almost exclusively. I have two clients who I just love the heck out of, so much, and I still do project based work for them. Everyone else, any new leads that’s coming in, everyone is exclusively day rate work. Part of that was just because toward January and February, so the baby was due at the beginning of March, and I was kind of like, the baby could come early, I don’t want to be booking a big project, that’s going to require extensive research and lots of revisions and blah, blah, blah. So, I need to do something that could be flexible and also be really lucrative. Another crazy thing that happened, so in the meantime, we bought a house and sold our old house. Around some time mid-January, the deal went a little bit haywire and it ended up costing us an extra $25,000.00 to make all these sales go through. It totally wiped out my maternity savings fund. Starting in January, I have to start from zero now, and figure out how I’m going to be able to take time off. So, I did a little promo on my day rate, I did a ‘Buy one, get one half off’. I don’t know, I suddenly g

Copywriter Michal Eisikowitz joined Kira and Rob for the 97th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast and we go deep into her business. Michal has made some amazing changes to her business in the last year (including creating one of the best copywriter websites we’ve ever seen). You’re going to want to listen to this one. Here’s what we covered: • how she turned a degree in speech pathology into a career as a copywriter • the “experiment” that led solidified her career choice • what she learned from her other jobs that made her a better copywriter • how what she accomplished in the Accelerator helped her walk away from her previous job • the evolution of her business, the kinds of work she does and what she charges today • how long the exploratory phase should last before you choose your niche • the work she does today and how she plans to evolve her business • what her process looks like from start to finish • why she has branded herself as a “perfectionist” • how she balances her work with everything else in her life • what she did to upgrade her website and how to know if you should upgrade yours • what she has her VA do at the end of every project • the packages she offers to her clients and how she came up with them • how she uses LinkedIn to generate leads for her business (and the tool she uses) • what she did to triple her income this year • the mistakes she’s made along the way Finally, we asked Michal where she plans to take her business in the next year or two. Note: we lost Kira’s sound for the last few minutes, but it doesn’t detract from this fantastic episode. To hear this one, visit iTunes, Stitcher or use your favorite podcast app to download it. Or scroll down and click the play button or read the full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Accelerator The Copywriter Think Tank 30 Day Social Michal’s website LinkedIn Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode 97, as we chat with freelance copywriter Michal Eisikowitz about how she became a copywriter, how she’s transformed her business over the past year and her amazing new website, how she uses LinkedIn to connect with potential clients and what she’s learned as she started mentoring other writers. Kira: Welcome Michal. Rob: Hi Michal. Michal: Thank you. Great to be here, you know how much I love you guys, so the chance to spend another hour with the two of you. Rob: The feeling is mutual, so this should be fun. Kira: All right, let’s kick this off with your story and how you got into copywriting. Michal: I have a really winding path to copywriting. I actually am a licensed Speech Language Pathologist. I trained in Communication Sciences, I have a Masters. My mother is also a Speech Language Pathologist, I have a background in education, so I thought special education was going to be a great fit. Then while I was earning my Masters I wanted a job, side job and I interned at a publishing company as the marketing assistant. I interned there for about three months and then was hired full-time and I ended up working there for two and a half years. I just loved every minute. I did everything to do with book publicity, marketing and copywriting, book titles, press releases, back flaps, book descriptions, catalog descriptions. All kinds of as ad copy, you name it, I was doing their marketing work. This kind of work really gave me this broad foundation in marketing and copywriting and I realized, wow, this is something I really love. What happened was that, after two and a half years, the company eventually closed and its closing coincided with the completion of my Masters degree. I was like okay, the fun is over, it’s time to dive into my real job. This wasn’t a real job, this was just like a dream. I landed a part-time job in speech therapy. I liked it, the kids liked me, the parents liked me, and it was going well. Then I just soon discovered that I had this kind of twitch, like I wasn’t totally satisfied. I felt like I needed to get back into writing. There was something missing. Then I turned my face to journalism and I submitted my first feature to a weekly magazine and eventually started writing regularly for them and as well as other publications, monthly features, columns. At the same time I started accepting freelance writing and copywriting projects on the side. One of which grew into a proper gig as the in-house copywriter of a New York marketing agency. Basically, I was doing a million and one things, it was crazy. I was doing speech

For the 96th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob talk with copywriter Ridge Abraham. Ridge recently left full time employment with The Agora and now works freelance for financial clients and is taking on clients in other fields as well. You’ll want to listen to this one if only to get all of the books Ridge recommends as we talked. In this wide ranging interview we talked about: • how Ridge went from Los Angeles DJ to financial copywriter • how his very first mailed promotion pulled $7 million • how he uses swipe copy without stealing ideas • his writing process • the projects he works on today—since he left Agora full time • how he structures his compensation for the projects he takes • what he does to connect to potential clients • how he keeps his skills sharp today • his thoughts about mentorship and why it is so important • what he’s learned from his famous dad—Jay Abraham • the “unbelievable” mistake he sees a lot of other copywriters make • the failures he’s experienced and how to know when to give up • several ideas to try if you want to write in the financial niche We also asked Ridge about what he thinks will happen to copywriting in the future and he turned the question back on us, so we shared our thoughts as well. To hear this one, visit iTunes, Stitcher, or download it on your favorite podcast app. Or you can simply click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show:   Agora Financial Great Leads Influence Made to Stick Money Map Stansbury Research The Oxford Club Cremes and Lotions Steal Like an Artist A Technique for Producing Ideas Joe Schriefer Abbey Woodcock Ian Stanley Gary Bencivenga Jay Abraham The Dip Chanti Zak Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript:   Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work. That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 96 as we chat with copywriter Ridge Abraham about his path into financial copywriting, what he did to generate seven million dollars with the first campaign he ever wrote, why he’s so hard to find online, and the most important lessons he learned from his famous dad. Kira: Ridge, welcome. Ridge: Thank you guys. Thanks for having me. Rob: It’s really good to have you. Kira: We were joking before we started recording about how Ridge is the hardest person to find online. We had to scour the internet to find you. Ridge: That way you guys can’t ask me those trick questions. Kira: I know. Ridge: It’s even been easier to find Paris Lampropolous online, than it is to find me, which is saying something because he hides. I think he’s got a bigger body of work than me, I don’t know. Kira: So let’s kick this off with your story and how you ended up as a financial copywriter. Ridge: Okay. So it’s actually a pretty funny story. So, like I was telling you guys, I went to school for music. I was really into music production, songwriting. I was DJing. I was living in LA, and I really want to play shows. I wanted to travel and do stuff like that, and it is tough right out of college. If you want to be like an entrepreneur in the music business, it’s very difficult to make it and you’re often times broke. So I was working this internship at … It was like a subsidiary of Hans Zimmer Music for Film studio, and I hated it. I was the intern that every day I would just go and get people lunch. I was just like the gopher. Worst job ever, miserable. I was really like, okay, I need to figure something else out. So I was listening to a lot of entrepreneurial podcast and one of them was John Lee Dumas, Entrepreneur on Fire, and I heard this episode with Kevin Rogers. And so I’m listening, I’m like, okay. He’s talking about copy sheets. He’s talking about copywriting. I’m like, okay, this sounds pretty cool. That’s interesting. So anyways, I hear that and then a couple days later, and as we were talking about my dad’s involved in direct response, someone from Agora, Ryan McGrath had come to meet with my dad at my house, I was living back at my parents’ house at this time, and so he comes to my house and my dad’s not there. And so I’m like, “How’s it going?” We’re talking, and he tells me he’s a copywriter, I’m like, “Oh, yeah. I just heard all this stuff about Kevin Rogers podcast.” We started dicing it out, and then he’s like, “Wow. You really know this stuff. So maybe come out to Baltimore and check it out.” I honestly had no clue what Agora was. I didn’t know a

Copywriter Julia Reinisch is in the house for the 95th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Julia chatted with Kira and Rob about a variety of topics from how she came to join The Copywriter Think Tank to her favorite dive spots in Roatán. Long time listeners know that we like to talk with copywriters at all stages in their business, and while Julia is not a beginner, many listeners will relate to the effort Julia is going through to build a thriving freelance business. Here’s what we covered: • how curiosity and a suggestion from her family led her from social work to copywriting • where she found her very first client and the kind of work resonated with her • how her background in social work makes her a better writer • the kind of work she does as an in-house copywriter at a University • how she learned to talk to customers and thicken her skin with a job in retail • the unique steps she took to start her own copywriting business • why Julia thinks every copywriter needs a great website • what she’s done to take her business to the next level • her thoughts about connecting with other writers in the Copywriter Think Tank • what she’s done to pitch her employer on hiring her as a copywriter • the advice she has for copywriters just starting out • her thoughts about working with other writers • what she’s doing with her business in the future • her favorite dive spots in Roatán To get this episode in your earbuds, visit iTunes, Stitcher or your favorite podcast app. Or simply click the play button below. And if you don’t like listening, you can scroll down for a full transcript (there’s even an option to download it and read it later).   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Yeti MooseJaw REI Jax Asana The Copywriter Accelerator The Copywriter Think Tank Mary’s Crack The Blue Cave Julia on Twitter MomentumCopy.com Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for Episode 95, as we chat with in-house and freelance copywriter, Julia Reinish, about her move from social work to copywriting, what she did to pitch herself to a big client, the struggles of a full time writing job and the place adventure plays in her life. Welcome Julia. Julia: Hey, Rob, Kira, thank you so much for having me. Kira: Yeah, great to have you here as one of the members of our think tank, which I’m sure we’ll talk about a little bit more. But, Julia, can you just start with your story? How did you end up as a copywriter? Julia: Yeah. Personally, I’ve always been a really creative person. Growing up I guess, I was the child that probably kept my parents super entertained all the time because I was always finding something new to explore and something to really learn a lot about. I know at one point I got really interested in everything about Atlantis and Lost City type things and codes at one point. I thought that I was totally going to grow up and be a spy. So just all kinds of creative things like that. But one thing that’s remained constant, I guess, is that I’ve always been really interested in writing. I won my first writing contest at nine years old I think. From there, did a lot of writing in school and everything as everyone else does, but I was always getting recognized for it. So you would think that when I’d get to college and everything, I’d want to actually pursue that as a career, but I didn’t. I guess a part of me just really wanted to reach more of the sensitive part of myself. I would say I’m a very sensitive person and I’m always really keeping an eye out for people who are having a hard time in life. And I actually decided to study social work. That did not make my family super happy because they thought that I wouldn’t be able to make a decent living for myself, but there’s lots of people who are doing well doing that, so I guess to kind of make them happy too, and because they know me super well, I also studied communications and journalism in college. So right after school, I graduated and I worked as a social worker for about five years. I worked primarily with folks who were homeless, housing a lot of refugees, a lot of young adults who aged out of the foster care system and that was actually really cool for me to be a part of seeing people’s transformations, seeing people in really heartbreaking situations, but seeing the resilience in them was really inspiring to me. But the thing is, is being a really sensitive person, I would get really overwhelmed with it and I definitely, within those five years, got burn

Email expert and sometime copywriter, Val Geisler, is our guest for the 94th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. In this episode, we go deep on the ins and outs of emails—especially on-boarding sequences which can make a huge difference to your client acquisition processes (and the one you create for your clients). We cover: • how Val went from stage manager to copywriter and email marketing genius • what she did to learn business skills then start her own business • how managing stage productions has made her a better writer • Val’s processes for designing and mapping email sequences • why she added strategy to the services she provides (in addition to copy) • Val’s secret for getting clients (that we’ve mentioned on the podcast before) • the backdoor Val uses to get results from her clients • the writing and testing tools Val uses as an email copywriter • how she presents then delivers final copy to her clients • how she sets up projects and charges for them • her advice on welcome sequences to onboard new customers • the mistakes everyone makes with their email marketing • her favorite tips for working with VAs • the new book she is writing about her experience as a woman in the tech industry • how marketing is like a dinner party • how to get her regular email tear-downs Val also shared how you can get her regular email tear-downs if you want to keep learning about email marketing. To get this excellent episode in your earbuds, click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. It’s also available on iTunes, Stitcher and your favorite podcast app.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Lululemon LucidChart Litmus Intercom ActiveCampaign Drip Drift Airstory ValGeisler.com @lovevalgeisler Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 94 as we chat with copywriter and email strategist Val Geisler about email copywriting strategy and what it takes to convert casual visitors into happy customers, writing a book, and how thinking about your marketing is a lot like hosting a dinner party. Kira: Welcome, Val. Rob: Hey, Val. Val: Hey, guys. Thanks for having me. Episode 94, that’s so huge. Kira: It’s exciting. I realized before you jumped on here that you are the only guest we’ve had on this podcast that I have also interviewed on my previous podcast from a previous lifetime, the Bridal Rebellion Podcast in 2015. I was lucky enough to interview you about your wedding, and planning, and systems, so I feel like this is just coming full circle. Val: Wow. Yeah. That’s like a blast from the past. It just kind of proves my theory that the journey you go on in your career is one that’s pretty unpredictable, and that if you would have told me in 2015 that I would be sitting here talking to you about copywriting and email marketing, I probably would have laughed at you, but here we are. I didn’t have this plan, but this is where the life has taken me as I’ve let plans unfold. Kira: All right, so let’s start with your story. You didn’t expect to end up as a copywriter, so how did you end up as a copywriter? Val: Sure. Well, I have a degree in theater, so I went to school for theater production. I was a stage manager and worked in theater for several years. Stage managers are the people behind the scenes who make everything happen. They tell everybody where to be and what they should be wearing, and props to be carrying, and when the lights go on, and all those things. When I worked in theater, I traveled a ton and got really tired of not having the same hairdresser ever, or … I really had no, my parents’ address was my home address, so I didn’t really have a home. I just lived in extended-stay hotels, and Airbnb wasn’t a thing then, so like long-term rentals off of Craigslist. I got pretty tired of the nomad lifestyle and was looking for a job that would be similar to what I was doing and found event management. I worked in events both at non-profits, for-profits, and for small business owners. I worked mostly in the wedding industry, very much like theater, organizing a tiny little production multiple times a weekend. Did that for a couple of years, and in that process of doing all of these events, having a pretty crazy stressful job, managing weddings and people and personalities. I started doing yoga, and when I was in yoga class one day, someone was talking about the company Lululemon. Lululemon Athletica was still a super small company in the United States. It was still a big brand in Canada, but there weren’t very many stories here in the U.S. I investigated t

Copywriter Erica Strauss joins Kira and Rob for the 93rd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Erica is doing something a little different in her business than what most copywriters are doing… working with a direct sales company to add another revenue stream to her personal business. So far it’s working, and we wanted to know more. We also talked about: • how Erica started her copywriting career at age 10 • what she learned about copywriting from working as a gossip columnist • why she decided NOT to finish her master’s degree • how Erica makes retainers work for her andher clients • what she typically charges for one of her projects • how she started copy coaching • the challenges of growing a copywriting business quickly • what she did to overcome the burnout that comes with so much work • how her business is shifting to include other income streams • what to consider if you’re interested in network marketing • how Erica connects with clients and gets to know their voice and stories • what she’s doing on Facebook Live and her tips for doing it well • why relationships are so important as copywriters • where her business is going from here • why she loves rap and EDM—and how it makes her a better write We also talked about her processes and tips for writing taglines and naming products—and why she offers this service to her clients. And as we often do, we asked her about the future of copywriting. To hear what Erica had to share, click the play button below or scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Lisa Vanderpump Marie Forleo EricaLeeXO.com Erica on Facebook Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Kira: The Copywriter Club Podcastis sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at the Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode 93 as we chat with copywriter and communications strategists Erica Lee Strauss about her stint as a gossip columnist. Helping entrepreneurs communicate their stories, burning out and finding a purpose, copy coaching and her love of EDM. Welcome Erica. Rob: Hey Erica. Erica:Hi guys. Thanks for having me. Rob: We’re stocked to have you. Kira: Yeah, so Erica, let’s start with your story, how did you end up as a copywriter? Erica:Oh my gosh you guys. Okay, so honestly I was one of those annoying little kids who always knew what they wanted to do. I was sending out manuscripts and God knows what they were like. I was sending out manuscripts at age 10. Actually started an online magazine back in the days of like AOL and CompuServe, and kind of had my first mailing list back then. Had a little mailing list of like, I guess it wasn’t so little, it was 2000 people. I had a little online magazine and just always knew that I wanted to write or like wanted to do something. I thought it would be with editorial basically, I thought I would do something in magazines. I actually wrote my first article for a magazine at age 10, because somebody at Girls Life Magazine got wind of the fact that I was this 10 year old having this, writing this online magazine. They contacted me to write an article for their reader’s issue, and as soon as I saw my name in print, I was completely hooked. I just knew that that was going to be the thing, like I definitely was going to go down the magazine journalism path. I did. I went to college for that, and it was kind of during that weird time where everyone wasn’t sure really what was going on. Like Facebook was just becoming popular, social media was becoming a thing and people were like print is dying and like newspapers are going to die and magazines are going to die and this whole sorts of things. I kind of switched gears and I decided, well I’ll just be an English major, and I’ll write poetry, because that’s clearly a better career path. I made the switch and ended up graduating with a degree in English, but after that, I still was like okay, so I really did, my whole life I’d imagined I would do something with magazines, so I ended up just applying for different jobs through Craigslist. I found this job that was a work at home job as a celebrity gossip reporter. It was like some $15 an hour, nothing crazy at all, but I got to work from home and it was all online. I ended up doing that. That was like my first big girl job, but because it wasn’t really like paying enough, I started looking in other areas. Like this is cool, I’m getting paid from this one company. How else can I expand this and maybe make more money? This was like w

Copywriter and Marketing Consultant, Eric Bakey, steps into the studio with Kira and Rob for the 92nd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We met Eric a few months ago and got to talking about his approach to his business. It’s different than a lot of other copywriters’, so we thought it would be interesting to talk about how he works with his clients. In this interview, we cover: • how Eric went from the army to construction to writing a book to copywriting • why he doesn’t call himself a copywriter (even though he writes copy) • Eric’s onboarding process and the “found money” blueprint • the “15 minutes -> hour -> day -> long term contract” roadmap • how he connected with Dan Kennedy (and the results for his business) • what you need to know about packaging your services like Eric • how he uses sketches in his customer interactions • what he does when clients buy the “found money” blueprint • how to set up a retainer model so you don’t get burned • why Eric treats his copy the same way an artist treats her work • how he turned $80 of Facebook ads into $30,000 in sales • Eric’s book recommendation for building a steady stream of sales • why it’s important to create a list of your best 100 clients • what Eric’s regular work day looks like And if that weren’t enough, we asked Eric how he uses cartoons in his business and why there are so many opportunities for copywriters today. We also sneaked in a question about his favorite tattoo (he has quite a few to choose from). Ready to hear it? Visit iTunes, Stitcher or your favorite podcast app. Or scroll down and click the play button below, where you’ll also find lots of links and a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Strength from Within by Eric Bakey Jocko Willink Dan Kennedy Renegade Millionaire Business Model Canvas Ultimate Sales Machine by Chet Holmes 93 Extraordinary Referral Systems by Jay Abraham Sean D’Souza Joe Schriefer Ray Edwards Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 92 as we chat with author, copywriter, and combat vet, Eric Bakey, about his long and winding road to copywriting the “Found Money” Blueprint, cartooning, writing for his niche vet-preneurs, and which of his one or two tattoos is his favorite. Kira: Welcome, Eric. Rob: Welcome, Eric. Eric: Thanks for having me. Rob: Yeah, we’re thrilled. Kira: Yeah, great to have you. So we met you through Brian Kurtz’s Titans Masterclass. We’re both excited to hear more about your story, which is a great place to start. How did you end up as a copywriter? Eric: Well, I joined the Army after high school, and I learned how to blow stuff up and mop floors. Neither of them are very lucrative, so I had to start all over again into construction when I got out. I was sick of working and building someone else’s empire, so I decided to write a book as an escape from the corporate world. And then I learned that the publisher, after they make the initial push for your book, they do not care about whether you sell anymore. So I had to start writing copy if I wanted to sell any books, and you have to sell a lot of books if you want to make any money. That’s how I kind of how I got started in copywriting. Rob: So tell us a little bit about your book. If that’s the doorway to get into copywriting, why did you decide to write it? What does it cover and when you started to promote it, what are some of the things that you learned in order to make that happen? Eric: So I was following the typical internet marketing pyramid in that I was going to use the book as a front end to my online personal training business. So the book is called Strength From Within: The Anti-Meathead Approach To Fitness. You’ve got to own your keywords, so if you type in “Anti-Meathead,” it’s number one on Amazon and Google. And it was really to support my online personal training business. It’s the fastest way to get unbelievably strong without going to the gym. And it kind of dialed in my USP after writing the book and after being book-solid as a personal trainer. But I decided that I really like growing businesses more than I like growing biceps. So I transitioned to a copywriting business exclusively. Kira: Wow, okay. So what does your business look like today? What do you spend your time on? What services do you offer? Eric: When people ask me what I do, I tell them I’m a combat imagineer. And they go, “What does that mean?” Kira: What does that … Eric: And so I ask people, “Do you know how much you can spend in order to acquire your best customers?” And of course they d

Persuasion expert and copywriter Bushra Azhar joins Kira and Rob for the 91st episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. This is a fun one. We covered a lot of ground with Bushra, beginning with her meteoric rise and success (she worked hard for it) and the principles she teaches in her books and webinars. The stuff we covered includes: • how Bushra went from corporate consultant to copywriter and landed her first client • how her business shifted when she launched an online course • why she worked around the clock—for pennies—for weeks and the massive impact it had on her business • how she made $7500 by making a single presentation • why it’s harder to get results from Facebook groups today vs. a few years age • why you should never PM people with advice on Facebook—and what to do instead • brand positioning—how to do it and what not to do • the 8 persuasion triggers and how to use them • what accountants use for birth control (it’s a joke, people) • what Bushra’s business looks like today • the mistakes she’s made on her way to making more than $1 million There’s a ton of value in this one—you won’t want to miss the discussion of the persuasion triggers which will help you improve your writing whether you write BoF copy or ToF content. To get this one in your ear buds, visit iTunes, Stitcher or click the play button below. You can read and download a full transcript by scrolling down. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Copyhackers article Laura Belgray Mass Persuasion Method by Bushra Ashar ThePersuasionRevolution.com Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode 91, as we chat with copywriter and autoher of Mass Persuasion Method, Bushra Azhar, about her story; persuasion triggers and why you need to use them; and how she’s found success creating programs for entrepreneurs; what she wishes she had done differently; and her advice for copywriters who want to grow quickly. Kira: Welcome, Bushra. Rob: Hey, Bushra. Bushra: Hey Kira; hey Rob! Thank you so much for having me; it is an utter honor. And yes, I just clapped my hands, so if you heard a blast in your ear, I am sorry! Rob: I’m clapping too. Kira: Laughs. Let’s all clap! Bushra: So it doesn’t look awkward, so I don’t look like a two-year old. But, thank you so much for having me. It is an utter pleasure; I am very excited. Kira: No, we’re great. You’ve been at top of our list actually. We’ve wanted to have you on the podcast for a while. So glad you are finally here. And Bushra, a great place to start is just with your story, especially for anyone who has not heard of you before. How did you end up running your business, and copywriting, and persuasion? Bushra: Oh, okay. So first off all, thank you so much. It’s a funny, funny note that I will tell, which I will think, it is probably… like I’m making a massive boo-boo in front of all the copywriters community, but I have to say this: you just introduced me, and you said “copywriter”, and the thing is, I don’t identify myself as a copywriter, because I have never taken any copywriter training. And, when I started my business, I wasn’t really sure which copywriting was which. So it the w-r-i-t-e, or is the r-i-g-h-t? Kira: Laughs. Rob: Laughs. Bushra: And I said okay, which is which? I just knew that I’m good at using words to make a sales argument. That’s something that I’ve always done. That has always been my strength. But I never really thought there was a need for something like this, so when I started my business, I positioned myself as a persuasion strategist. I was not comfortable calling myself a copywriter, even though a lot of what I do is copywriting, but if you were to mention copywriting principles, I would not know what they are, simply because I’ve never been formally trained as a copywriter. So, I was in consulting—okay, I changed a gazillion professions—but the last thing that I was doing was, I was working as a consultant in Saudi Arabia; I worked with some big Saudi companies. It was really great. And then I stopped, decided to dip my toes into the murky waters of online business; started 2014, and started it kind of like an experiment: okay, I’m just going to try it out, I’m not going to tell anyone, let’s see how it goes—most likely fail and make an utter fool of myself. I was, like, absolutely sure. So, I never told anyone, and I just started basically just put together a landing page, standing writing articles and using the psychology of persuasion in business in different ways. Again, the same thing that I was doing in my consulting work; how to dismiss

Wow, ninety episodes. That was fast, right? For the 90th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob talk about some of the challenges of running a growing Facebook group and managing competing cultures, expectations, and conversations that cross the line. Some of the topics we covered in this rare guest-less episode include: • what Rob has been doing with his business for the last two months • a little bit about Kira’s experiment with a “mini micro agency” • the program experiment that “failed” • why we created the Facebook group and why we sometimes let things go farther than some people feel appropriate • balancing trust and intent with censorship • the place for scarcity in copywriting • how scarcity impacts us as copywriters • what Kira does when she finds herself in a scarcity mindset • how to create scarcity the right way Plus we talked a bit about what’s coming up next for us and the club. We’ve got some great new (and returning) guests joining us in the next few weeks that we’re very excited about. To hear it all, visit iTunes, Stitcher or click the play button below. And as always you can scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Accelerator The Copywriter Think Tank The Hidden Brain Scarcity Episode Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 90, as Kira and I talk about what’s been going on in the Copywriter Club lately, and in our own businesses; how we hope to monitor Facebook discussions moving forward; and why scarcity is such a powerful motivator for your clients, and something you need to watch out for in your own business. Rob: Hey, Kira. Kira: Hey Rob. How’s it going? Rob: It is going awesome. Before we started recording, we were just talking about how we’re both so happy that Spring is here, and spending some time outside. You were going for a run; I’m hoping to get out on my bike and…yeah, things are going good. Kira: Yeah, definitely. Getting outside has helped with the warm weather; I feel like I haven’t done much of that over the last two months, so yeah. This was a first job in a long time. Very slow; very slow pace! Rob: Yeah, I totally get that. So, my bike has been sitting in my garage for way too long, because the handlebar tape broke on my bike, and I fixed it with some packing tape, and that just bugged the heck out of me. So I had this tape sitting, ready to make a repair, and I finally got it done on Saturday, and got out for a ride, and oh my gosh. You know, like ten minutes in, I’m like, why haven’t I been doing this everyday? You know, I miss being on my bike. So, yeah; thank you Spring for getting here, and getting my out of my desk chair, and out into the world. Kira: Yeah. Well I feel like you and I have been hibernating a bit the past….year, maybe? Rob: Laugh. Yeah, a little bit. Kira: And just chugging along on the copywriter club, and putting it together. So what’s been happening in your business? Because we haven’t really talked about your business since episode 80 which was about two months ago, right? Rob: Yeah. So I think we talked right after the live even that we did. Kira: Right. Yeah. Rob: And you know, after the live event, I took on a lot of work, and so for the last two months, have been working really hard on balancing a couple of really large projects, along with what we were doing in The Copywriter Club, and i have to admit, for the last two months, while the work has been steady and the income has been good, it has been, you know—I’ve literally been working 60, 70-hour weeks, and not spending nearly enough time with my family or on myself. And it definitely wears you down. I think you’ve been doing something similar. Kira: And we did the same thing, I guess. I didn’t realize that, but after the event, I feel like January and February were so focused on the event in New York, that I missed the client work, or I felt…I like to get out there; I like to speak to client; i like to book work; I like to make money; I like to sell. SO I think I just got overly zealous and just jumped into client work, and took on a lot as well. We both did that, and so I definitely booked the biggest two months I’ve ever booked with more projects than really I could handle and decided to look at it like I’m running a micro-agency, and to bring on subcontractors as needed, and really just to treat it like, you know, I’m an agency; I need to operate differently than I have in the past, and this will be an experiment like we always say. So, that’s been my March and April, and while I fee

Frameworks specialist, Mel Abraham is our guest for the 89th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Mel’s got an interesting background that launched him as an expert is building expertise (kind of meta, right?), which means he is the perfect person to talk about client relationships and how to establish your expertise before you work with a client. We talked about: • how he learned to leverage his experience to build a real business • how to stop exchanging hours for dollars and sell your true value • the risks and rewards of project pricing • what you have to do to get clients past the “yellow light” • how you can help clients see the value of what you do before they hire you • what to cover in your first call with a potential client • how to know if you’re an expert or a thought leader • the “prolific power of positioning” and how to use it for your business • all about frameworks and why you need one • the steps to follow for creating a framework for your business • how copywriters can build their own credibility As usual, there’s a lot of good stuff in this episode. To hear it, visit iTunes, Stitcher or open up your favorite podcast app and search for The Copywriter Club. Or just scroll down and click the play button below. Keep scrolling for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Thoughtpreneur Academy The Entrepreneur’s Solution by Mel Abraham Stephen Covey James Wedmore Mel’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode 89, as we talk with entrepreneur and business advisor Mel Abraham about building a successful business from nothing, what you need to do to become an influencer and make a real impact, the importance of frameworks, and how to write a national bestseller. Kira: Welcome, Mel. Mel: How are you doing? Rob: Mel, it’s great to have you here. We’re thrilled to be talking to you. Mel: Yeah, it’s fun. Kira: All right Mel, so let’s just start with your story; how did you end up building your online building empire? Mel: Wow. I guess, you know, it’s a non-traditional thing. It wasn’t like I grew up with the internet; I grew up well before the internet, and I was the traditional CPA. I’m a CPA by education, but I was building an expert business before I knew what an expert business was. And it was pre-internet; I needed to build a practice. I needed to get clients; I needed to get known; I needed to get myself out there, and the only way to do it back then was direct mail, you know; networking; speaking; and writing articles. And that’s what I did to do this. And as time went on, I started to realize that the game that I was sold—swapping hours for dollars—is the absolute worst business model I that could ever be sold to someone, and should be burned at the stake! And I tried to figure out, how do I leverage my expertise, and how do I leverage that stuff? And you know, we may get more into it, but what I was building at the time was as an expert witness, strategic consultant, or businesses. I was helping them build businesses, but I was doing a lot of testimony at trial in litigation, which was such a negative environment, that I got tired of it. And I said, well, where can my skills work and where can I leverage those skills better, and that’s when I started to look at the online space. I was already speaking; I said, so how do I capitalize that? How do I record it? How do I put it out there? And that’s how I really got into this game of the online space, and have been in it now for, well gosh, at least a decade. Rob: When you talk about trading hours for dollars, it’s got to resonate with almost every one of our listeners, because that’s what copywriters do. I want to know more. What’s the secret; what’s the solution to that problem? Mel: The solution is simple. It may not be easy, though. And first is a mindset shift; an attitude shift. What I realized is that when we talk about selling hours, we’re putting ourselves in the commodity space, and selling in commodity’s the worst thing we can do because the only differentiating point at that point in the consumer’s mind is pricing. But that’s not what we do, and when you talk about copywriters, it’s not what you do. You create value, and what we truly live in today, and I think that anything from employee on up, we need to understand this, is that we live in a value-exchange economy. And so we need to forget price; we ne

Our guest for the 88th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Facebook Ads Expert Rick Mulready. Kira and Rob sat down with Rick to ask him about his story and how he became the go-to-guy for everything related to Facebook marketing. Here are a few of the things they talked about: • the mistake he made when he started his business that held him back • how he structures his days to get more done • how he’s grown his team to handle the parts of the business he can’t handle • the programs and products he’s built to sustain his business • the Insta-story opportunity that’s open for the taking • how to get started with Facebook (the first step will sound familiar) • the kinds of ads that are working today • what you can do with FB ads to increase engagement and make connections • the images you should be using in your Facebook ads • how we can use FB ads to market our own (copywriting) businesses and stand out • what has changed with launches and how Rick is thinking differently about them • how you can get started with FB ads even if you have no experience • where you should do Facebook Lives (on the page or in a group) • how Rick connects with authority figures (and how we can do the same thing) There’s a ton of great information here for anyone who wants to start advertising on Facebook as well as for any copywriter who works with clients who use Facebook to promote their products and services. You won’t want to miss it. To hear the entire interview, click the play button below, or for a full transcript, scroll down. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: RickMulready.com The Art of Paid Traffic The FB Ads Diagnosis Check List (mention troubleshoot) Ashlyn Carter Amy Porterfield Chanti Zak Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: Kira:What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob:You’re invited to join the club for episode 88, as we chat with paid traffic expert Rick Mulready, about Facebook advertising and what copywriters need to learn about making it work; how he’s built his own business empire; what’s working and what’s not working in launches today; and the importance of teaming up with the right people to move your business forward. Kira:Welcome, Rick. Rob: Hey, Rick! Rick:I am so honored to be here; thanks for having me on! Rob:We’re excited. Kira:Yeah! Rick:You guys just said ‘episode number 88’; is that what you guys said? Rob:Yeah. Kira: Yeah!Laughs. Rob:88. Can you believe it? Rick: Laughs. No! I was like, I feel like you guys just started this, like it’s…I mean, I know it’s been going amazingly well, but are you doing like four a day or something like that? Rob:Laughs. Kira:Laughs. We’re pulling one everyday; yeah… Rick:Laughs. Congratulations! Amazing. Kira: Yeah! Thank you! And I know, Rick, we’ve worked together in the past, and we’ve talking about bringing you on the show for a while, so now it’s finally happening, and a good place to start is with your story, especially for people who aren’t familiar with you yet. How did you end up running your empire? Rick:Laughs. You use that word; I just laugh at that word. Kira:It’s an awful word! Laughs. Rick:And just for everybody listening, before we got going here, Kira said, ‘Is there anything that you don’t want to talk about,’ and I said, ‘Nah, I’m an open book,’ and the thing of it is, is Kira knows a lotabout me, because we’ve worked together with writing copy. And so I said that, and I’m like, ‘Ooh, wait; Kira knows a lotabout me’, and I’m saying nothing’s off the table here. So yeah. It’s been a very cool journey. I mean, when I think about it, it’s only been really not only four and a half years. It was January of 2015 when the business truly got started. I say ‘truly’ because I left the corporate world in the fall of 2012, and I fumbled around for fifteen months. I was like, ‘Oh yeah, I’m going to be an online entrepreneur,’ and I had no idea really, truly, what that meant. And, so, I left the corporate world, and I had money saved, and thought I was going to, you know, create this amazing business doing Facebook ads, and by the end of 2013, I was quickly running out of money because I really didn’t know how to create my own business, and then, hired a coach, got support, got community, in January of 2014, and that’s when things really started to take off for me and get some structure in the business, really. And, for the past four years, a little over four years now, I’m super, super grateful. I’ve seen hockey-stick growth; we’ve been growing really quickly over the past years, and this year’s looking no different. And, I’m really excited about it. I think the lack of clarity of what I truly wanted t

Our guest for the 87th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is none other than A-list copywriter Paul Martinez. We covered a lot of ground in this one, including how Paul landed a place as Parris Lampropolous’ copy cub (for seven years) and his process for finding ideas that hook the reader so they’ll see his offers. The resources he shares are excellent. Here’s most of what we cover in this episode: • how an English degree and a job in real estate helped him find copywriting • what he did to recover from losing almost everything and how that still impacts how he spends his time today • what he learned from real estate sales and how that’s made him a better writer • what he did to find clients as a new copywriter and the #1 thing that reallymade a difference • how you get yourself in the right room with the right people • what he learned as a copy cub for one of the world’s best copywriters • what you can do right now to be a better copywriter (you may not want to do this) • how he keeps his copywriting skills sharp today • how Paul finds big ideas playing around on the internet all day long • how he structures his projects today (and his advice about retainers) • how he deals with failures That’s a lot of hows and whats—and every one of them is worth the listen. There are also a whole lot of links. To hear this episode in its entirety, click the play button below. Or for a full transcript and links to the stuff Paul mentions, scroll down.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Google Adwords Parris Lampropolous Brian Kurtz Dan Kennedy John Carlton Barnaby Kaelin Alexi Neocleous Jim Rutz Raymond Carver Joe Sugarman Todd Brown Atlas Obscura How We Got to Now At Home by Bill Bryson History of the World in 100 Objects Now I Know More This is Your Brain on Parasites Clayton Makepeace Clayton’s Sales Page Template Agora NatureCity Soundview Weiss Research Mike Ward Money Map Press Jed Canty Paul on Facebook PaulMartinezCopywriting.com Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob:What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode 87, as we talk with copywriter and business owner Paul Martinez about digging deep to turn things around after losing it all, the importance of sales skills in copywriting, emotional hot buttons and what really makes people buy, and what it takes to create successful promotions for companies like Motley Fool, Soundview, and Nature City. Kira:Welcome Paul. Rob: Hey, Paul. Paul:Hi; hi guys. Kira: How’s it going? Paul: It’s going great; great to be here. Rob:Yeah, we’re stoked to have you here. Kira:So Paul, a great place to start is with how you ended up as a copywriter. Paul:Yeah, sure, sure. So I began my journey actually in the real estate world. Well, going a little further back, my background is actually I went to school for fiction writing and ending up getting an English degree. I pretty quickly realized that, you know, that really wasn’t going to pay the bills. So I ended up in real estate, and actually discovered that I really liked sales. And I was pretty good at it, I studied it a lot. I got better and better but, there was a problem: that I didn’t know how to generate leads. And, you know, this was 2000, 2001. Real estate marketing at that point was, believe it or not, still really based around cold calling. Like, literally going through this thing called a “colds directory”, which was like a phone book, but it has a little diamond next to the people who owned a house. And my broken told me, just like, “Call those people and ask them if they want to sell their house.” And I didn’t that for probably five or six months, chuckles, like hoursa day, and I got nothing from it. And finally one of these other brokers at the office was like, “Hey man, you got to send letters. Way better. You know, you spend a few hundred bucks on stamps; you hired some kid from college to pull them up and stuff the envelopes, and boom.” And he showed me kind of the rough way he did it. And so, I instantly started working; I started listing property, making money. And then I got interested in this, kind of, “How do I make these letters better?” So I started looking into copywriting. I discovered Dan Kennedy and, you know, Jay Abraham, and then ended up going into a real estate coaching program with a guy named Craig Proctor, who’s one of Dan Kennedy’s protégés, and the copy was a huge, huge piece of it. And you know through that, you know, I went through the coaching; I went through their graduating coaching, my real estate business grew and grew and grew as I got better at writing copy, and, you know, better at implement

Copywriter Rick Marion joins Kira Hug and Rob Marsh for the 86th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. This one gets personal as Rick talks about how he overcame his addictions and how that relates to copywriting. We also talked about… • how he found copywriting and persuasion though a mentor • what his first few clients were like (where the work came from) • how he identifies a mentor to connect (and work) with • how he finds clients today • what he’s doing to build the channels where clients can find him • the two reasons he continually invests in masterminds, books, and events • the biggest take-aways from his membership in The Think Tank • his struggle with addiction and how he reframed the way he looked at the world • what he is experimenting with these days • what copywriters can do to build their authority • why he put together a copywriter book group • what Rick is working on in his business today Rick is a current member of The Copywriter Think Tank and he shares a bit about his experience there. To get this one, visit iTunes, Stitcher or your favorite podcast app. Or click the play button below. For a full transcript, just keep scrolling.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank The New York Event: TCCIRL Proposify Better Proposals Ben Settle Jody Mayberry Ray Edwards Brian Kurtz Larry Winget Parris Lampropolous Parris’ book list (coming soon) How to Write a Good Advertisement by Vic Schwab Talent is Overrated by Geoffrey Colvin rickmarion.com Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 86, as we chat we freelance copywriter Rick Marion about his story; dealing with addiction; how he approached copywriting; what he’s learned from the influencers in his life, and the importance of constantly learning and improving as you build your career. Kira: Rick, welcome! Rob: Hey Rick! Rick: Hey; thank you guys! Kira: So Rick, we met you through The Copywriter Think Tank, and we’ve had the privilege of getting to know you overt the past six months or so. So why don’t we start with your story, and how you became a copywriter? Rick: Well, it was comforting; a couple of weeks ago at the New York event, someone asked how many people became copywriters by accident, and like, the whole room pretty much raised their hand. So, that was pretty comforting to know that I also kind of just fell into this. So, full-time job; like, i was working. This was about four years ago, five years ago, and I was working on my master’s degree. i was getting certifications going after my dream job. And I actually got the offer. It was more money than I asked for. Ton of vacation time…it was exactly what I was looking for in like cyber-security. And I had the start date, like, everything was lined up. And then i got a call saying they couldn’t give me the job because of foreign-national contacts that i had. Like… Kira: What? Rick: It was too sensitive. Yeah, it’s the industry. Rob: I want to know about these “foreign-national contacts”! Rick: Laughs. Kira: Yeah! Rob: Like, foreign national…spy? Or drug dealer? Kira: Are you a spy? Rob: Yeah, what’s up? Laughs. Rick: Laughs. No, you know what? It’s just people that travel all over the world and they travel to some countries that, you know, the U.S. doesn’t really want to get involved with. So it was enough to basically say they couldn’t offer me the job, and I was devastated. Kira: Wow. Rick: I mean this was, like I said, like three years i was working towards this. I was working two jobs to get it, like, I was making all the connections. Going through, like, the whole interview process from like falling on my face the first interview I ever had, to like, really learning how to sell myself. And through that process, someone say that I was having a tough time, and they put me in contact with a mentor, and someone who’s now become a friend—his name’s Mark. And, he helped open my eyes to other possibilities outside of just that, like, one track that i had in mind. He made me realize I was kind of living in a bubble, and that there’s a ton more opportunities. And so we started talking, and he kind of introduced me to the whole idea of, like, marketing concepts, and how psychology plays a role, and I was just like falling in love with this because it was right up my alley anyway. So then I started looking into, like, online business, and marketing and realized that, I actually knew something about this because I had marketed myself in the career space, and there are a lot of parallels. And so, come up to close

Health and Fitness copywriter, Misty Mozejko joins Kira and Rob for the 85th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We asked her all kinds of questions about her fitness and copywriting business—and got a lot of great advice to apply to our own businesses. We even talked about nipple tassels, which is new ground for us (though not for Misty). Here’s what else we talked about: • how she got started running her own businesses and how that led to copywriting • how she found a mentor and why she continues to look for them • what she did to lose 120 pounds (and how long it took) • the business lessons she learned running her own fitness club • her diet recommendations for copywriters who need to feed their brains • the system she has developed in her business to help her succeed • the moment she realized she was good at copywriting • what she’s done to improve her own writing (this is a great tip) • her advice on how to choose clients • why she emails her list every day (and the impact it has) • where the ideas for her emails come from • how she captures the voice of her clients • how she manages two businesses, being a mom, and staying healthy • the mistakes she’s made (and why she tries to stay in her lane) • what she’s learned about hiring people to help her • how she communicates with her team (and the tool she uses) • what she does to improve her writing and business skills • the words she uses to push back on her clients Finally, Misty pulled out her crystal ball to tell us where she sees copywriting going in the future. She’s probably not wrong. To hear it all, click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: The Copywriter Think Tank Brian Kurtz Paul Mort Ben Settle Email Players James Friel Autopilot Entrepreneur Evernote Trello Basecamp Bond Halbert Russell Brunson Sell Health Nipple Tassels The Go Giver Misty’s Facebook Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode 85 as we talk with copywriter and business owner Misty Mozejko about succeeding as a copywriter while running a whole other business; how she stays sane balancing two businesses while being a mom; her best fitness and nutrition advice; and what she does to stand out as a copywriter in a crowded field. Rob: Hey Misty. Kira: Welcome, Misty. Misty: Well, thank you very much for having me; this is an honor! Kira: It’s great to have you hear. I think a great place to start is with your story, and how you ended up running multiple businesses. Misty: Uhhhm, yeah; you said ‘sane’? You mentioned something about my sanity in the intro, and I think we should address that, because there’s definitely none of that happened in the past. I’m not sane at all, so let’s just clear that up right now. But yeah, I think that, you know, I started out as an entrepreneur just after my son was born and he’s almost twelve, so it’s been over a decade now doing my own thing. And the fitness business arose because of my own personal… Well, I lost 120 pounds after my son was born, and I figured if I could do it, then everyone could do it; like seriously, everyone can do it. So, I grew a fitness business from that, and the copywriting kind of came out of the fitness business, because I was writing to my clients, and writing to my list everyday, unbeknownst to me what even copywriting was or even email marketing was. I had no idea. I was just doing it. And then, after a few years of thinking, “Huh, I should probably make some money off of this,” I got a mentor and they kind of helped me really get into email marketing. The fitness business came first, and then the copywriting and email marketing came second mainly because I needed it as a tool for my business, and then that little seed kind of grew and blossomed, and here I am today. So, that’s the nuts and bolts of it, really. Rob: So let’s talk about how you found your mentor—I think we know who it was, or at least one of your mentors. But, how did you find that person, and what did that mentorship look like? Misty: So, yeah. I’ve always had coached from day one; I quickly realized in business you’re not going to get very far on your own. And so I definitely try to surround myself with people who can expand my horizons, and teach me new things, and if I can learn from different people, then that’s really key, which is why obviously I’m in with Bryan and learning from him now. So, that’s always been crucial. So, the mentorship with the email marketing started way back in the day with a guy in England called Paul Mort. And then

Copywriter, author and copy coach Steve Roller stops by our studio for the 84th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Steve is the founder of The Copywriter Cafe Facebook group—a group that a lot of club members are also in. We asked Steve to share his thoughts about his book, the field of copywriting and a whole lot more. Here’s what this episode covers: • how a 17-year career in sales (and an online course) led to his second life as a copywriter • how he connected with his first client (it involved pancakes) • the advice he gives copywriters who are struggling to gain traction • the advantage copywriters with a sales background have over other writers • what it takes to foster engagement in a Facebook community • the importance of relationships for all (but especially new) copywriters • the books he recommends to copywriters who are just starting out • the skills you need to be good at on client calls • why every copywriter needs to write their own book • how writing a book has affected his business • the dark side of freelancing (spoiler: you won’t make millions working at the beach) • the lighter side of freelancing—it’s definitely not all bad • what Steve sees happening with copywriting in the future This was a great conversation with someone who is doing a lot to support other copywriters and help them succeed. It’s no wonder we feel such a kinship with Steve. You can get this interview on iTunes, Stitcher or by scrolling down to click the play button. Or you can read the transcript if you scroll down the page a bit.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Café Never Eat Alone by Keith Ferazzi How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie The Freelancer Manifesto by Steve Roller Death of a Salesman by Arthur Miller Cafewriter.com Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: This podcast is brought to you by The Copywriter Think Tank, our mastermind group for writers who are serious about taking their businesses to the next level. In the Think Tank, you’ll learn from guest experts who share their business and copywriting expertise; you’ll have the opportunity to sit in the hot seat while the other members of the group brainstorm solutions to the challenges you’re facing; and, you’ll have exclusive access to a small, focus group of professional copywriters who are all working together to get better at what we do. It’s not cheap, but it’s worth the investment. If you’re interested in learning more, visit www.copywriterthinktank.com. Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 84 as we chat with freelance copywriter, author, and community leader Steve Roller about the dark side of freelancing; the skills you need to make it as a consulting copywriter; why you must ride a book; and the impact a great community can have on your career. Kira: Welcome, Steve! Rob: Yeah, welcome Steve! Steve: Hey! Thank you very much for having me; I’m honored to be here, and excited to talk to you today and share some ideas with your readers. With your readers…I’m thinking ‘book’ already! With your lis— Kira: They’re going to be readers! Steve: Laughs Rob: Readers, listeners, yeah. Steve: With your listeners! No, I’m excited to be here. Thanks for having me. Rob: We’re really grateful that you are taking the time to talk to us. You’ve been on our list for a little while. We’ve sort of watched what you’ve done in your community and with your book and so, we’re just really excited to just kick off this conversation. Steve: Excellent, excellent. Thank you. Kira: So Steve, let’s start with your story. How did you end up as a copywriter? Steve: Yeah, so before I ever heard about copywriting, I was in sales. So, my career coming out of college and for seventeen years, actually before I did this, was in direct sales. So I worked for a couple of different publishing companies. And, I loved it. I loved the whole sales world, I loved the autonomy of working for a company but kind of being on my own. I was pretty good at it so I made good money. I went on some nice trips and got recognition and all that kind of stuff. But the only drawback for me was that I only got like three to four weeks of vacation every year, and I really like traveling and taking extended vacations and what I call Sabbaticals. That wasn’t enough for my tastes, so, I was looking for something to do to get out on my own, and this was like back at the end of the 90’s. And this goes back a few years, so back at the end of the 90’s, you know, when everyone was getting into dot-com businesses and stuff; I was really intrigued by that whole world but

In the direct response world everyone knows the name, Gary Halbert. He’s often called the best copywriter who ever lived. And if we could, we’d ask Gary to be on the show, but alas, that’s not possible, so we’ve done the next best thing. Bond Halbert is the guest for episode 83 of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira and Rob sat down with Bond to talk about his famous dad and the lessons he’s learned from a lifetime (literally) learning copy. We talked about: • his path into the world of copywriting (it all starts with his dad) • the story behind The Boron Letters and why Gary wrote them to Bond • why Gary Halbert went to prison for a crime he didn’t commit (really) • the 2-3 most important lessons he learned from Gary Halbert • how he divides his work into thirds • the four kinds of readers you’ll attract to your copy • why copywriters are good at headlines but bad at closes • what he does to nail the close • the importance being persuasive in person (not just in copy) • where good copy really comes from • what Bond’s research process involves • his hack for finding the problems your customers want to solve • why expertise is relative (the differing levels of expertise) • the formula he leans toward when he writes for his clients • why you need to create a compelling sense of urgency in every sales message (and how to do it) • why he wrote Part III of The Halbert Copywriting Method first • how he talks differently about positive and negative ideas in his copy (we hadn’t heard this anywhere else before) • how (and why) Bond’s relationship with money is different from his father’s This interview was so good that it went a little long, but we think you’ll learn a lot from the extra time we spent talking about copywriting. To get this one, visit iTunes, Stitcher or your favorite podcast app. Or simply click the play button below. And of course, you can scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Boron Letters Parris Lampropolous How to Make Maximum Money in Minimal Time Glenn Gary Glen Ross Big Jason Henderson Sam Markowitz The Halbert Copywriting Writing Method, Part III BondHalbert.com TheGaryHalbertLetter.com Halbertising.com Email: [email protected] Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode 83 as we talk with copywriter and marketer Bond Halbert about the most important lessons he learned from his father, the man many called the greatest copywriter ever lived; the story behind The Boron Letters; the formulas, tactics, and strategies he uses to make effective copy; and what he’s doing to carry on Gary’s legacy. Rob: Hey Bond! Kira: Welcome, Bond! Bond: Hi! Thank you for having me here! Rob: Yeah we’re thrilled to have you; when we made a list of all of the guests that we wanted to interview eventually on the podcast, your name was one of the first ones that we added, and so it’s taken us a little while to get to you, but we are glad that you’re finally here. Bond: Oh! I didn’t know that, I would have come sooner! Laughs. Kira: Laughs. This is perfect; perfect timing. Episode 83 is a good episode. So Bond, let’s start with your story, especially for people who are less familiar with you, you know; how—how did you get into this wonderful world of copywriting and marketing? Bond: I’m going to try to make this really short, because I know I’ve given this to people who’ve heard me on other podcasts, and I like to give people as much, like, new stuff as I can, and tactical advice. Basically, my dad quit his last—got fired from his job—the day before I was born. And, he started getting into the world of copywriting and direct marketing on, basically, the day I was born. So, I grew up in the business, but, one day what happened was, I was talking to him—we were walking down the street—and my dad had this kind of rocky up-and-down relationship with money. And so, a lot of people don’t know it, but, you know, his ability to make money was only really eclipsed by his ability to blow it. And he didn’t do this on purpose—it took me many years to figure out that he was addicted to like, needing to have a big win, then making a big win. Laughs. And so, one time he was needing a big win, and I turned to him and said, “You know, I’m really lucky.” He said, “Why?” And I said, “My oldest brother got to grow up with, you know, all the toys and pleasures of being a rich kid. I get to see how to make it,” and he thought that was really, really smart thing for a ten-year-old to say. So, he singled me out and started, you know, because after…

Copywriter Eman Zabi joined Kira and Rob for the 82nd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast and we had a great conversation. She became a copywriter a little over a year ago, but in that time has accomplished more than many writers with several years of experience. We talked about her experience in The Copywriter Accelerator and Think Tank and what she’s done to grow her business to the point where she’s working with major outdoor consumer brands. Here are a few of the topics we covered: • how she went from star engineering student to copywriter (with a stop at the UN along the way) • what the early days of starting her own business • what she’s learned from the copywriters she’s surrounded herself with • what she’s done to stand out online (her SEO secrets) • why she cut the number of projects she will work in half • how she’s raised her prices and didn’t worry about “paying her dues” • how she goes after the clients that she wants to work with • what you have to know to write in the outdoor industry • why she threw away her entire list (every single name) and started over • her thoughts about creating a signature service • how she deals with clients who think she’s too young • why she adopted a penguin, two tigers, a great white shark and a llama last year • how she built a beautiful website for just $47 (and some tears and caffeine) • why she moved half way around the globe last year • climbing Kilimanjaro and what she learned from the experience • how branding can make a big difference for copywriters We also talked with Eman about her best advice to copywriters who are just starting out. And what she shared sounded good to us. To hear the whole discussion, simply click the play button below, or scroll down to read the full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Mount Kilimanjaro Ban Ki-moon The Copywriter Accelerator The Copywriter Think Tank Lessons from Kilimanjaro Wix MooseJaw Sean D’Souza Hillary Weiss Laura Belgray Eman’s Twitter The Outdoor Copywriter Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 82 as we chat with freelance copywriter Eman Zabi, about how she got into copywriting, dealing with clients who think she’s too young, choosing her niche to rebranding to reach her ideal clients, and what it’s like to stand on top of Mt. Kilimanjaro. Kira: Welcome, Eman! Rob: Hey, Eman. Eman: Hey, thank you! Kira: Great to have you here! So, we’ve been able to get to know you—we’ve had the privilege of getting to know you—over the past, well almost year, through the Accelerator Program, and then now through The Copywriter Think Tank. So we’re excited to kind of dig into your past, and your copywriting, and your business a bit more. A good place to start is with your story. So, how did you end up in copywriting? Eman: So that’s a funny story, actually. I kind of started off as like every brown parent’s dream, because as a kid, I was like making websites at eight; I was building radios and Morse Code oscillators; and I was going to be an engineer, and I was going to be a great engineer. And then like I started writing, and then I got something published by Bloomsbury at eleven, and then I ended up at the U.N. at fifteen, and then I’m like, “Oh my goodness. I don’t want to be an engineer anymore.” And my parents were devastated. And then I went into politics, and you can’t get a job in politics. I was unemployed; there was no way I was going to get a job with a degree in international politics. And, the market’s really bad so I couldn’t get a job, and I started blogging about Kilimanjaro, and then people were like, “Hey, you’re a half-decent writer; maybe you should write and get paid for it.” And Priscilla from The Copywriter Club actually—she’s in the group, and she sent me a link to the podcast. She’s like, “This might interest you.” Kira: Oh! Eman: And that’s basically how I got started. I like binge-listened to like twenty episodes in less than a week, and I’m like, “Okay, that’s it. I’m going to be a copywriter.” So, being here’s kind of a full circle for me. Rob: I did not know that. Kira: I didn’t know that either!! Yeah! Rob: Yeah. This kind of feels like a proud parent moment in a way. Eman: Laughs. Kira: Laughs. Group hug! Rob: Yeah, it’s totally cool! So tell us the kind of writing that you’re doing right now. Eman: At the moment I’m primarily working with people in the outdoor industry, which is so great for me, because I live and breathe it. So a lot of the clients that I’m working with right now, they’re women who are trying to make the outdoor indus

For the 81st episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob talk with copywriter and marketing specialist, Mike Saul, about copywriting, sales, marketing, and a lot more. Kira first met Mike at a lunch-time gathering of copywriters in New York City and after talking for a little while, realized Mike had a lot of great advice to share with our listeners. In this podcast we talked about: • how a 13-year-old’s newspaper route led to a career in sales and copywriting • the book that he used to help a client go from a $500K monthly loss in $1 million in monthly revenue • how his sales experience informs what he does today • what he learned from selling burglar alarms—price is not the most important thing • the relationship between sales and marketing in what copywriters do • how to write an “air tight” argument for your solution • how to overcome objections on your sales page • the checklist he uses when he writes sales pages for his clients • why sales people in California have to leave the house after • the list of people he has learned sales and copywriting skills from • credibility versus believability and which one really matters Lots of good stuff in this episode. To hear it all, click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Staton Island Advance Mandolin Brothers NAM Show Todd Brown The Ultimate Sales Letter by Dan Kennedy Brian Tracy Zig Ziglar Gibson SG Fender Telecaster Glen Garry Glen Ross Chris Haddad Clayton Makepeace’s Checklist Joe Schriefer Bob Bly John Carlton Dr. Robert LaPenna Better Call Saul Email: tinymjs.gmail.com Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode 81 as we talk with marketing strategist and copywriter Mike Saul about how a newspaper route launched his copywriting career, how preconceived notions affect your success, credibility vs. believability, what baby bottles, Santa Clause, and getting a first date have in common, and the learning resources he likes most. Kira: Hey Mike, welcome to the show! Rob: Mike, we’re glad to have you! Mike: Thank you for having me, guys. Kira: So, we want to start with your story, Mike. How did you end up in marketing and direct response copywriting? Mike: It probably goes back to when I was 12 or 13 years old. I grew up on Staten Island, which is one of the five boroughs of New York City, so about 13 I started playing guitar. And my parents decided that they weren’t going to buy me a really nice guitar so I had to get a job at thirteen and we perish the thought these days, with all these entitled children, including my three. So anyway, I started delivering the newspaper, The Staten Island Advance. And I actually split a route with two brothers. The two brothers each had a route each but they were too big, so the mother split each of their routes and made a third route. It was kind a rent deed route, it wasn’t officially recognized by the Staten Island Advance. So that route got cycled through the neighborhood kids; most of the kids couldn’t do it so I said alright, I’m going to give it a shot. I had twenty one stops on my route. And I started delivering the paper and anybody I wasn’t delivering to on my route, I would knock on the door, ask if they wanted it, and I started selling. So, I built the route up to 41 people from 21. Now, why 41? Because I was warned by my friend’s mom, that, if you add one more house, we’re going to split the route again, so I said okay, well, that’s great… really good for getting rewarded for all my efforts, right? And at that point, I really knew what bureaucracy was all about so that’s how I got started in selling. I was just knocking on doors and trying to sell the Staten Island Advance on delivery. From there, I went to a high end guitar shop, which close about a year ago, year and a half ago, when the founder actually passed away and I was selling high end guitars on Staten Island at a place called Mandolin Brothers when I was 14 and 15 years old. And when the owner and the head sales guy would go to the NAM show, in California, I was actually running the showroom by myself. So, that’s how I got my chops in sales. Now, how does that move into marketing? Well, a lot of times you’ll hear people say, okay, you know, copywriting is salesmanship in print. Now, I don’t agree with that. I take Todd Brown’s approach, which is “copywriting is really marketing in print”. So anyway, fast forward a while, I had some sales jobs, I sold alarm systems, I sold mausoleums, people were just dying to get in, I liked to say; I sold life-alert, the

In the 80th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob share their take aways from the recent TCC In Real Life event in New York City, what’s going on in their businesses right now (and how they’re dealing with it) and what’s coming up in The Copywriter Club—the next Copywriter Think Tank and the new options we’re offering with The Copywriter Accelerator. We talked about: • how some of the best parts of a conference aren’t at the conference • a couple of highlights from the incredible presentations • who won the scavenger hunt (and how well they did) • what we’re working on and why we’re suddenly feeling overwhelmed • what mastermind groups have done for us and a few of the reasons you might want to consider one • the changes we’ve made to The Copywriter Think Tank • the new, more affordable, option for The Copywriter Accelerator To hear all about it, click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Hillary Weiss Parris Lampropolous Brian Kurtz Allison Comotto Katz’s Deli City Hunt The Copywriter Think Tank The Copywriter Accelerator Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits. Then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work. That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 80 as Kira and I talk about a couple of our favorite moments from our event, The Copywriter Club In Real Life, why masterminds have been an important part of our personal and business growth. What’s happening in our own businesses and what’s happening in the club in the next few weeks. Kira: Hey Rob! Rob: Kira, how’s it going? Kira: It’s great. I feel like we haven’t chatted about our businesses and the club in a while. It feels like a while. Rob: Yeah, it’s been a while since we shared anything publicly anyway. I mean obviously, we talk every once in a while about what’s going on but it has been awhile since we shared what’s going on so we should definitely catch people up. Kira: Yeah, so big event … Rob: Huge event. Kira: …recent event. So, what did you think about TCC In Real Life? Rob: When you organize an event there’s all kinds of things that are going on. We were so busy in the weeks running up to it. In addition to the stuff we’re doing on the side with our own clients just trying to make sure that this event was going to come off swimmingly and I was so afraid that we were going to drop the ball or something was going to go wrong and after it was all said and done I kind of walked away and said okay we did an okay job. It was fun. It was like so gratifying in the way that so many speakers came to support us. The things that they shared were incredible and even the stuff that happened outside of the room. We just had a total blast. It was so much fun and I wish that it was the kind of thing we could have had more people there. How about you? What’d you think? Kira: Yeah, I think I remember you saying something about before the event about how this even might break us up or something… Rob: Yeah. Kira: Or cause us to get divorced and I was like yeah this is definitely testing our relationship, but we ended up making it through. It wasn’t that bad. So, I felt like for me, it was exactly what I envisioned in my head especially stepping into Hotel 50 Bowery months beforehand and kind of picturing it all and it surpassed what I envisioned and so yeah, I was really excited about it. I know how people say oh events feel magical and I’m like that sounds really woo-woo, but that’s the only way I can describe is it did feel magical and a bit surreal. Yeah, so I mean we had a bunch of speakers, like 15. Did any of their presentations really stand out to you? I feel like every presentation was so good. What did you take away from it? Rob: Yeah they were all so good. Without mentioning everybody, everything that was said there is definitely worth listening to and we’re going to make the tapes available and hopefully everybody can have the opportunity to watch and listen for themselves, but I just want to pick out like three or four highlights for me, you know, as I was sitting in the room. The one hitch of the entire show happened when I was trying to get Hillary Weiss’ slides loaded up and there was a change at the last minute of which slide deck was the right one. And I had the wrong one on the laptop. So, she was getting started I’m trying to pull up the slides and you know, I’ve got it there in the download and it’s downloading and of course it’s downloading over hotel WIFI. So, it’s like 150 megabyte file and it’s going at like 15 kilobytes a second, right? I’m sitting there just like I’m sweating just trying to ge

Copywriter James Turner is our guest for the 79th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We’ve known James for a few years now, so we’ve been saving up questions to ask him for a while. Here’s just a sample of what we covered… • how James went from an English teacher in Japan to copywriter in Canada • the jobs he took on as he started out in his career and what’s changed since • his thoughts about retainers—the good and the bad • his book ghostwriting experiment and what that involves • why undercharging for work doesn’t serve you or your clients well • how James gets more done with Pomodoros (and other tricks) • “The power of asking” and how it got James a new business • how automation can change your copywriting business • why he started a podcast and the impact on his business • how he networks (and his advice to copywriters who need to do more of it) James is the kind of copywriter we can all learn something from. Make sure you download this one to your favorite podcast app, or click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Hillary Weiss Laura Hanly Pomodoro Technique SNAP Copy Lianna Patch The Copy & Design Brew Podcast Oli Gardner (Unbounce) TCC IRL Business of Software ConversionXL CTAConf Turner Creative The other James Turner Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode 79, as we talk with freelance copywriter James Turner about ghostwriting a book, running a micro-agency like SNAP Copy, why he started a podcast, and what’s he’s learned from it, and what he’s done to manage his done and get everything done. Rob: Hey James! Kira: Welcome! James: Hello! Thanks for having me. Rob: Yeah, we’re glad that you’re here, finally! I mean again, another person that we should’ve talked to months ago; you’ve been on our radar, been in our circle of friends forever, and it’s about time you got here. So, thanks. James: Yeah. It’s a pleasure. I’m glad we waited; I have more things to say. Kira: Laughs. James: If you asked me a week ago, it would’ve been a mistake. Kira: Laughs. Rob: Laughs. James: Life moves fast! Kira: James, let’s start with your story. How’d you end up as a copywriter? James: So, I’ve been thinking about how to tell that story quickly. Long story short, I went from having an English degree to teaching English in Japan to working in HR at an English school in Japan, to being instructional designer in Fredericton, New Brunswick—little Fredericton, New Brunswick—to becoming a copywriter. That’s the story arc. The reason I specifically want to talk about the HR thing is because that was the first time I really, truly used words to their full power, I suppose, like in a persuasive way. If I may go a little bit into the story of that…? Rob: Please do. James: So we worked for this big school in Japan, this sort of conversational English school. My wife and I, we moved there; we lived in Japan for three and a half years. And, I was brought into the, sort of, the personal coordinator role in my last year there. They were sort of shaking up the top level foreign part of the company. Everyone above us was Japanese, so it was like a big Japanese company with all kinds of different arms of business, and the English school we were sort of at the top of…our column, if you will, our business arm. And, the morale was really crappy because the people before us had not done a good job internal communications, essentially. Like, it came down to sort of personality stuff, but at the end of the day, it was all a matter of how people were spoken to, typically in emails and that was basically what I did for the company. I mean I was myself, and I was friends with a bunch of teachers because I’d been there for a couple years, but in essence, I’d rewrote all of the sort of internal stuff, and most of the teachers were spread out over a long, large area—so we had about a hundred teachers going to forty-five different schools. So, the only real interaction they had with the company… and, so, you know, I think of these, like, now as a copywriter, I think that you know, we were all customers, in a way, you know? We had to buy into wanting to work there, to showing up and like representing the school in a positive way, and the only real interaction that we had with a company on a day-to-day basis was through these internal communications, and it made a big difference. Kira: So James, what did your first few copy jobs look like, beyond this role in HR, you know? Communicating and trying to keep the morale up. When you really

Inhouse copywriter Jon Lamphier joins Kira and Rob for the 78th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We’ve known Jon for a few years now and really admire his ability to get readers to care about his writing. And he’s a lot of fun to hang out with. We talked with Jon about: • how socializing at a trivia game led to a job as a copywriter • what it’s like to work as at an agency and his terrifying first days • when he first realized that copywriting was what he wanted to do (and that he was good at it) • the kinds of work he took on as an agency copywriter • how he developed the ability to throw out funny one-liners • how he breaks down the creative process to get to the right idea • what the day-to-day work looks like at an agency • the dark side of agency life (the knife someone on the first day analogy) • how he balances freelance and a regular copywriting day job • how he gets himself into the mindset for coming up with good ideas • the big career mistake he made on the way to an important pitch • how a mastermind made him a better writer and agency employee • what Jon is doing today as an in-house copywriter • what he learned from moving his family to a new city for a new job • his two-word advice to writers going through the job search process We also talked about why he doesn’t limit himself to a single niche, where he sees himself working in sixty years (okay, maybe not sixty years), the books and other resources he loves as a copywriter, and the #1 mistake he sees copywriters making (and the opportunity it presents to those who are ready for it). To hear it all, click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: McDonald’s George Clooney Joanna Wiebe Copyhackers David Ogilvy Aaron Sorkin JRR Tolkien Neil Gaiman Lianna Patch Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 78, as we talk with in-house copywriter Jon Lamphier about how he became a copywriter; the ends and outs of agency life; what he does to stay creative; and how he got so good at writing great headlines. Kira: Jon, welcome! Jon: Hey guys. Rob: Jon. Kira: I can’t believe it’s taken us this long to get you on the show. Rob: Yeah, seriously. Jon: What? Why? You guys have had so many famous copywriters on the show, I am the opposite of that! Kira: Laughs. Rob: Maybe not famous, but every bit as talented, and certainly a better friend than most of them are to us. Jon: All right, I’ll take….I’ll take that. I’ll take that; I appreciate it. Kira: Laughs. So why don’t we start with your story, Jon? How did you end up as a copywriter? Jon: All right. Well, I had a past life in another career, but, when I went to a trivia night one night after my wife and I had moved to Greensboro, North Carolina… Showed up at that trivia night, and made a friend who was actually the host. Told him I thought he did a great job, and we got to talking over a couple of adult beverages, and you know, he started talking about how he was overloaded at work. One thing led to another, and I picked up a freelance gig working for the agency that he was working for; I knocked it out of the park, and sort of fell in and realized that this is what I should’ve been doing all along, so… Rob: So you’re not the kind of guy that grew up wishing to be a copywriter? You weren’t watching Darren Stevens on Bewitched, or you know, any…. Jon: No…. Rob: ….Thinking “copy’s for me”? Jon: No, I wasn’t. I mean, whether it was, you know, actively knowing it or not, like, I always loved advertising. I just… when stuff was clearly pointed at me, I could totally tell. And you could tell that I was bored with stuff that wasn’t, and that was fine, but I always loved words. English was a passion for a long time. Not in college, but, just the way that words work and what we can mean and how, you know, one thing can mean something to one person, and then another. That was always there, and, then the clever, sort of conceptual side of it kind of came to life when I got that first freelance gig. Kira: So Jon, what would you doing before you got this freelance gig? Jon: I got worked at McDonald’s for almost ten years. I got to do a lot of people managing and training of people; sort of got really got at firing people too. Rob: Yeah, the “George Clooney” of McDonald’s? What was his role in firing people? Jon: Maybe not that big, but you know, just getting people to understand what they had done, and how that was fire-able and how it was just like, hey, it’s nothing personal, it’s just the job, a

For episode 77 of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob talk with copywriter and marketing specialist Christine Laureano about her business, what it’s like to work with different niches that are completely different (makers and engineers), and a whole lot more. Here’s what we covered in our time together: • how she went from the corporate world to maker to marketer to copywriter • what she did to deal with a devastating personal tragedy • the importance of carving focused creative time out of your day • how she created systems to support her work and produce results • the difference between working with big clients and small clients • how she conducts her discovery process to uncover additional work (she gives a specific example) • the process she went through to land a recent engineering client • how she deals with working in more than one niche • what she does to find clients who can pay within her niche • why she is involved in more than one master mind group • how she stays upbeat all the time (this is great advice) She also explains why e-commerce is such a rich opportunity for writers today—the growth in this sector makes it hard to ignore. To listen, click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Copyblogger Angels by Silver Ravenwolf The Copywriter Accelerator Danny Iny Teach and Grow Rich The Copywriter Think Tank Joanna Wiebe The J Peterman Company Seinfeld Ba6marketing.com Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode 77 as we chat with copywriter Christine Laureano about her path from business owner to copywriter, writing for engineers and other technical clients, how she uses her coaching experience as a copywriter, and how she stays so positive through the ups and downs of business. Kira: Welcome, Christine. Rob: Hey, Christine. Christine: Hey, guys! Excited to be here. Thanks for having me. Kira: Yeah, welcome! Rob: It’s great to have you here. Kira: All right, Christine, I know you have a really interesting path and story and we’d love to share it with our listeners. Christine: Oh, yeah, the winding path. Okay. Well, I am probably one of the oldest copywriters in The Copywriter Club. My path started back in the 80’s, way before the internet, when marketing was still done with maybe a computer, but pen and paper; rock and chisel. But I graduated college with a marketing degree and a minor in computer science. So not only was I into the marketing end of it, but I love the tech stuff. So I ended up getting a job at Xerox, and I did the corporate thing for several years. From there, I go down to a very, very technical job as a marketing exec, managing executive for accounts for an electronics distributor. I worked really closely with engineers, I worked with purchasing, I worked with production and manufacturing, and I did that for a really long time and that satisfied my technical need. And of course, the writing that I did for that was really that boring, dry copy. It was proposals, it was the stuff that I hate to think about when I look back on it. And then from there, I ended up having a family. And this is where everything kind of turned and the reason I talk about it like this is, I know everybody has life lessons and things and tragedies and things that happened in their life that forced them to pivot, and I had one of those. Our first daughter ended up passing in daycare. So my life completely, completely changed. I spent a month on the couch, literally, trying to figure out, “What am I going to do with myself? What am I going to do my life?” I actually finally ended up getting off the couch, took a shower, and went to a bookstore and books were, you know, a great solace for me, but not non-fiction. I went to all the how to books. “How to feel better”, “How to get your life back”—all that. And that really made me think about what were the next steps. So when I had my next children, there was no way daycare was in the picture, so what could I do that would use some of my talents, but yet, allow me to be home with my kids? And the big part of it was, how to feel good while doing it. So I ended up creating a natural skincare line. I became a certified aromatherapist, I worked a lot with essential oils, and I just wanted to play around with products that made people feel really good, so I did that for a little bit, and then as it started to grow, and I had products on every flat surface of my house, I actually got scared. Because I thought about, “Wow, my next step is to become a manufacturer, get a facility, move out; what