For The Love With Jen Hatmaker Podcast

Another year, another holiday, and another special bonus episode of our podcast featuring our 6th Annual Jen's Favorite Things Gift Guide. If you're just now realizing that we've got about a month before Christmas, Jen and team are here to help! In this episode, Jen will guide us to some of the most practical, fun and beautiful gifts this year—along with all kinds of deals, just for you, our faithful listeners. And as we've done in past years, Jen has selected products she loves from businesses who are doing good in the world—whether that's through dollars back to worthy causes, employing and empowering marginalized communities, or creating sustainable solutions that are both good for us and our planet. And here's a fun bonus (on top of a bonus episode!). We love a good story here on our show, so to celebrate 6 years of this guide, we've invited some of the folks who've benefited from the "giving back" component of our gift companies this year to share how their lives were impacted by the help and support they've received through the conscientious work of these companies AND because generous buyers like you decided they wanted to spend their holiday dollars meaningfully. Thought-Provoking Quotes “I was at the end of the road. I was completely desperate. I was sitting in prison and a lady from Thistle Farms, one of the original graduates, came in and spoke to a group of women in the prison. And so I got out, I went straight to Thistle Farms. I felt the love and the support. They bought me hygiene. They bought me clothes right when I came in. They basically just put their arms around me and let me just rest and breathe.” - Rachel, 2017 graduate of the Thistle Farms Residential Community “One of the things that we really found is that good food, good drink, and sitting around the table is actually the largest place to find healing. Because we started hearing the stories and sharing our experiences and we would linger around a table for hours and hours, starting from breakfast all the way through dinner. That was where everything happened.” - Paulette Wooten, co-founder of The Treehouse + Co. “I love being here. I love being part of something that is bigger than me and doing more for the greater good, and sharing my story and being around the women that have been through similar situations and gone through struggle.” - Katie, ABLE jeweler “Because of your direct support and buying our gift products and sending them to your girlfriends, and your moms, and your teacher or friends, we have been able to grow. We have been able to give back to our women. We have been able to keep our team employed through a really challenging few years in the retail and shopping space.” - Micah Shreeve, founder of Aspen Lane Gift Guide Holiday Deals Thistle Farms | Use code ForTheLove to save 15% off the entire website excluding sale items Wagon Coffee | Use code ForTheLove to save 10% off the entire online shop, including the Caffeinate These People coffee pack and For the Love coffee blend The Treehouse & Co | Use code ForTheLove to save 15% off the entire website, including the Jen Hatmaker holiday spice box ABLE | Use code ForTheLove to save 40% on purchases made in November, and 25% on purchases made in December Aspen Lane | Shop Jen’s favorites and get 25% off using code ForTheLove Hon’s Honey | Save 15% on the entire online store with code ForTheLove Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re in the midpoint of our Untraditional Traditions series, and we want to ask all of you listeners to consider something; what kind of Christmas do you want or need this year? Maybe it’s a riotous, celebratory Christmas with tons of gatherings and activities, a frenzy of lights and shopping and cooking and more. But perhaps some of us might be feeling a bit tethered to the way we’ve always done it—and the notion of a calm Christmas sounds nothing short of divine (and kudos to you all who have found the joy of this already). Perhaps you feel like you don’t really have a choice as to what kind of Christmas you have, as you’ve been the “keeper of Christmas” for your family and friends for so long, but our guest this week is here to tell us otherwise. Beth Kempton is a writer, a mother and has been obsessed with Christmas since she was a little girl. After one particularly stressful Christmas when her children were small (and she and her husband decided that neither of them really liked turkey) Beth began to realize that Christmas could be what she wanted it to be (sans turkey, for one!), and she started spreading that message—namely through her book “Calm Christmas and a Happy New Year.” She and Jen talk through the 5 “stories” of Christmas and which one they identify with most, they discuss when Christmas is hard and how to help yourself and others when that’s the case, and the comfort and joy of letting yourself be free of anyone else’s Christmas expectations and choosing the kind of season that is nurturing instead of draining. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! StoryWorth | Give the gift of preserved memories at storyworth.com/forthelove to save $10 on your first purchase! For the Love’s 2022 Gift Guide | Save on gifts that give back this holiday season! Thought-Provoking Quotes “I think the reason it's so important to think carefully about Christmas is because it's not just Christmas Day, it's the whole of winter. It's the season that sets us up for the year that follows. The impact on our mental health can be enormous.” - Beth Kempton “Isn't it interesting that you turn to the symbols of Christmas–the tree, the lights, whatever–as comfort in a really difficult time? And I know it's up to everyone when they put the tree up, but I'm totally the same. If that brings you joy, why not extend it as much as you can?” - Beth Kempton “When we find the quiet, it's so much easier to connect with the wisdom that we already hold and often don't even realize. I think somehow our heart is way ahead of our mind in terms of what we know, what we need to know.” - Beth Kempton “One of the things that I was really shocked by was how many people that I spoke to–I would say more than 80%--had a very sad story connected with Christmas in some way.” - Beth Kempton Guest’s Links Beth’s Website Beth’s Instagram Beth’s Facebook Beth Kempton’s podcast The Way of the Fearless Writer: Ancient Eastern wisdom for a flourishing writing life Resources Mentioned in This Episode Book: Calm Christmas and a Happy New Year by Beth Kempton Book: The Way of the Fearless Writer by Beth Kempton Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Let’s get into the nitty gritty of our holiday traditions—real tree or a fake tree? Love egg nog or hate it? Decorating to the hilt or like to keep it minimalist? In this kickoff episode of our Untraditional Traditions series, we’re doing a deep dive into some of the traditions many of us may observe at the holidays, and a few we might want to try! Like, how many of you put up your Christmas tree at Halloween and take it down on Valentine’s Day? Well, our guest this week does and he just gave us all permission to do that same (you’re welcome). Because that’s the fun thing about traditions—we can take the ones that mean the most to us and build off them to create something that really reflects who we are. And if our old traditions leave us feeling flat, there are always new things to explore. Brian Earl, the host of the “Christmas Past” podcast is the perfect guide as we begin this series. Brian dedicates hours of research to uncovering the roots behind many of our beloved (and maybe to some, annoying) holiday traditions. Ever wonder why we put up a Christmas tree in the first place? He lays it out for us, along with many other interesting facts around traditions. Also, he and Jen reminisce about being kids in the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s and the nostalgia around gifts we received and the Christmas commercials that used to barrage us on TV. (Rubik’s Cube, anyone? How about Teddy Ruxpin)? As they wind through the nostalgia of traditions past, Jen and Brian also talk about creating new traditions, and how valuable those are and will become to us and our people. Brian’s years of research have resulted in a book about all the fascinating, sometimes really surprising stories behind our holiday traditions, why we should care about them, and what they mean. Get into the spirit of the holidays as we wax nostalgic and dream of new ways to celebrate the season. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! BetterHelp | Visit BetterHelp.com/forthelove and get 10% off your first month Chime | Sign up for your Chime Credit Builder Visa Credit Card today Chime.com/ForTheLove Feed These People | Order Jen’s new cookbook and get free extra recipes, cooking videos, and more at jenhatmaker.com/feedthesepeople. Available now! Thought-Provoking Quotes “I grew up in the '70s and '80s. Those are two decades that I feel like produced maybe twice their fair share of popular culture. And all of that worked its way into Christmas.” - Brian Earl “Christmas for your great-great-grandparents was very different from what we celebrate. They would take a look at our celebration and sort of recognize it as Christmas, but not really.” - Brian Earl “During the Christmas season, anything in my community that's going on, any Christmas thing, we're always running around to it, and [my wife] gets a little tired, because she loves Christmas too, but very few people love it as much as I do.” - Brian Earl “Every year we write the next chapter in the story of Christmas. And I mean that on a small scale–you write the next chapter in your family's Christmas. But then collectively, with changing our behaviors, and just what kinds of things we want as a culture for Christmas, we write the next chapter collectively as the larger Christmas-celebrating community.” - Brian Earl Guest’s Links Brian’s Website Brian’s Instagram Brian’s Facebook The Christmas Past Podcast Resources Mentioned in This Episode For the Love Podcast episode with “Deck the Hallmark” Christmas Past: The Fascinating Stories Behind Our Favorite Holiday's Traditions by Brian Earl Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re celebrating fall in the Jen Hatmaker Book Club (and for those of you who live in the deep south like Jen, our sympathies for the fall leaves you won’t see). Whether it’s actual fall or the idea of fall that gives you that cozy-up-with-a-blanket-in-your-favorite-chair-with-a-good-book feeling, we’re here for it. And we’ve got just the book for your fall reading–our book of the month is none other than Who Is Maud Dixon? by Alexandra Andrews. Alexandra is a journalist, an editor, and copywriter who works from New York and Paris, and this is her very first book! We think she hit it out of the park–and a lot of people feel the same. Who Is Maud Dixon? was named best mystery novel of the year by the New York Times, best book of the year by Time Magazine and has gotten kudos from NPR, Publishers Weekly–and host of other publications.. Can we take a minute to imagine your very first book being met with that level of success? It's so exciting what she's accomplished, and you’ll love hearing how she crafted such a page turner–it will surprise you and there's more than one twist, which is the best kind of thriller. If you’re not already a member of the book club, there’s so much more to discover in the conversations around amazing books we’re reading together. Jump on over to jenhatmakerbookclub.com after this episode to sign up! Thought-Provoking Quotes:“I'm always inspired the same way, which is reading another book and thinking, oh, I wish I could do that. And for a long time it was mostly nonfiction books and I really wanted to be Joan Didion.” - Alexandra Andrews “There are a lot of women, or people in general, not just women, who’ve had a tough upbringing, they've been up against a lot of obstacles, and how much leeway do they deserve, and how much can we really blame them for not having the tools to go after success in ordinary ways?” - Alexandra Andrews “I'd been writing for so long and without any success, and even when I just finished the first draft, I was so happy I finished the first draft. And then when I got an agent, I was just thrilled I had an agent. And then when it sold, every step has felt like icing on the cake.” - Alexandra Andrews Alexandra’s Links Alexandra’s website Alexandra’s Instagram Books & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeJoan Didon The Talented Mr. Ripley Elena Ferrante Patricia Highsmith To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s another episode of our cozy fall series; For the Love of Feeding These People. How could we talk about food without talking about one of the things that pairs with it best. Yes, we’re talking wine on this week’s show, and we’ve got a knowledgeable, smart and decidedly different wine expert joining Jen to talk through food’s most delightful partner. Noel Burgess is a wine writer and influencer who lives in wine country in Northern California. For those of you that love wine, and even better, for those of you who have been looking to add wine to your table, Noel’s approach to wine is refreshing to us all. What’s great about Noel is that he’s on a journey of wine discovery himself—having only started drinking wine less than 5 years ago. He makes wine approachable to all of us and wants us to learn along with him. As Noel likes to say “wines are as diverse as people, spectacular in their perfect imperfections, shaped by their distinct environments, and always evolving.” Sounds like our kind of wine guy. Stick around to the end, where we’ve picked a dish from Jen’s cookbook, Feeding These People, and Noel tells us exactly the right wine to pair with it—just in time for fall entertaining. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Rothy’s | $20 off your first purchase by visiting Rothys.com/forthelove BetterHelp | Visit BetterHelp.com/forthelove and get 10% off your first month All the Dish Tour | Jen is going on tour! Find your city and get your tickets at jenhatmaker.com. Thought-Provoking Quotes “Everyone's palate is different. So to me, the overall thing of it is, it's good to you, then it's a quality wine, whether it costs fifty bucks or five bucks.” - Noel Burgess “The wine got my attention, no doubt, but the diversity piece is what really fuels my passion and sustains me in this industry.” - Noel Burgess “What are they doing when it comes to sustainability? What are they doing when it comes to giving back to the earth or to individuals, charities? Those are things I care about because there's so many different wine brands out there. If you're not exercising these things, why am I drinking your wine?” - Noel Burgess “I do enjoy working in the industry, but it's really about the people. And that's why I focus on those things in my story, versus talking about the technicality of wine. That's important.” - Noel Burgess “Even though your palate might expand, this is the best way to put it, it might expand, I don't leave behind the brands that I tried in the beginning that I actually do enjoy the taste.” - Noel Burgess “That outlet to do the things that I love, which is interacting with people and telling real stories, and helping highlight and give a voice to those that don't have as big a voice, is why I'm in HR, is why I'm in the wine, food, travel, hospitality, influencing, print media game, whatever you want to call it. That is the thing, that is the mechanism that I have used to improve the quality of my life.” - Noel Burgess Guest’s LinksNoel’s Instagram Noel on Muckrack.com Noel’s website (coming soon) Mentioned in This EpisodeTheopholis Vineyards Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Things are getting even more delicious as we continue with the “Feeding These People” series here on the For The Love Podcast, as we celebrate the launch of Jen’s dream project - her very first cookbook! And like we need an excuse to talk about food (we don’t) so pardon us as we revel in all the foodie-loving goodness our guest this week brings us through her oh-so-delectable, highly followed Instagram channel. We’ve got Half Baked Harvest’s Tieghan Gerard with us this week and we couldn’t be more excited (and a little hungry). Tieghan, much like Jen, got her start in the world of blogging way back in 2012 and was just a natural to move her food thoughts and creations over to Instagram (to the tune of 4.7M followers), and subsequently began appearing on outlets like the Cooking Channel, Food Network, HGTV and more. Tieghan confesses to us, as much as she loves cooking (which came from experimentation as a kid, and watching a lot of Rachael Ray) she loves styling the things she cooks even more. And if you get a look at Half Baked Harvest on the socials, you’ll understand why. From her point of view on food, to her flavor profiles, to how she showcases her beautiful creations, you’ll see her talent–but rejoice in the fact that even though her recipes *look* elevated, they are made for people who might not have a chef’s touch in the kitchen. We were stunned to find out that she wrote AND styled her last three cookbooks (after last week’s episode, where we had Jen’s entire cookbook team describing their work, we marvel at how she does it all). We also love the moments when Tieghan discovers Jen is southern and their hand-clapping delight that they both adore spicy foods (more jalapenos, please) and their aside about how wonderful it is to get to do what you love for a living. Stick around for the end as Tieghan shares her favorite (and easy) go-to recipe that everyone needs for their fall menus. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Storyworth | Save $10.00 on your first purchase at Storyworth.com/ForTheLove Feed These People | Pre-order Jen’s new cookbook and get free extra recipes, cooking videos, and more at jenhatmaker.com/feedthesepeople. Book is on shelves Oct 18, 2022. All the Dish Tour | Jen is going on tour! Find your city and get your tickets at jenhatmaker.com. Thought-Provoking Quotes “I love to make things look pretty. In my eye, in my head when something clicks, I'm so excited. It clicks, I'm like, "Yeah, this is it. I love it." So that's how I build recipes is I really build them in my head first and I build them based off color, and textures.” - Tieghan Gerard “I'm so grateful for the gradual growth I've had. I didn't have that one thing that put me on the map. I didn't go on the Today show, there wasn't some giant celebrity shout-out, it was just gradual, steady, consistent growth.” - Tieghan Gerard “Creating content and interacting with my community, and all of those things are the things that really build my business at the end of the day.” - Tieghan Gerard Tieghan’s Links Tiehgan’s website Tieghan’s Instagram Tieghan’s Facebook Tieghan’s Twitter Tieghan’s TikTok Resources Mentioned in This Episode Book: Essentialism: The Disciplined Pursuit of Less Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Coming in hot with a sneak peek of the premium podcast content! We’re tackling some tough social issues with these exclusive bonus episodes in the hope of having conversations that will be enlightening and sobering, but also encouraging. Our mission in these conversations is to advance respectful dialogue around hard issues, while looking toward how we can all build a world that we want to hand down to the next generations. And so continuing in this vein, we wanted to get a politicians' 1000 foot view of these issues, how to sort them out, what feels hopeful and what is our role to play. Former US Representative Beto O'Rourke is here with us to talk about all of these things, but in particular, voter’s rights. Whether you’re affiliated with a party at all, I think we can all agree that voting is the right of the American citizen. He walks us through a history of voting, what some of the hurdles have been for all to be able to vote in the past and the present, and how we can better this situation with our voices and our votes. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Feed These People | Pre-order Jen’s new cookbook and get free extra recipes, cooking videos, and more at jenhatmaker.com/feedthesepeople. Book is on shelves Oct 18, 2022. All the Dish Tour | Jen is going on tour! Find your city and get your tickets at jenhatmaker.com. Thought-Provoking Quotes “It's just so important [to acknowledge] just how extraordinarily exceptional our form of government is. In the whole of human history, very, very few people on the planet have ever pulled off anything close to a democracy. And even today, though there are more democratic countries than have ever existed before in the history of the world, it's not easy. And most of the planet does not live under free and fair elections.” Beto O’ Rourke “In 1965, the first Texas president, Lyndon Baines Johnson, signed into law the Voting Rights Act, which really for the first time since Reconstruction, allows everyone to participate in the franchise, regardless of race or ethnicity or country of national origin. It's really a beautiful moment. It was an important achievement and milestone, but none of these victories are final. You’ve always got to keep fighting because the forces that are fighting against democracy, they never rest. “ - Beto O’ Rourke “The more power you get, the more power hungry you are. And I don't think any human or any party is immune to that. The beauty of our country is you have all these checks and balances and these laws that are supposed to protect democracy. And we really have an opportunity that few generations get to fight for and restore this democracy. So voting is super important, of course.” - Beto O’ Rourke “We all need to know that we have a role to play. There's something that we can do. We're not merely witnesses or bystanders or on the sidelines. We're in this. And getting registered to vote, that puts you in this.” - Beto O’ Rourke Guest’s LinksBeto’s website Beto’s Instagram Beto’s Facebook Beto’s Twitter Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeBeto’s book Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s time to get into a topic for a brand new series that is near and dear to our hearts—food. We love to eat it, we love to take pictures of it, we love to cook it (well, some of us do). This brand new series, For the Love of Feeding These People, coincides with the release of Jen’s brand new cookbook; “Feed These People,” but lest you think this is one long discussion about Jen’s book, think again. We’re bringing in other food creators whose Instagrams we follow religiously for their culinary creations, we’re bringing in a wine guy (not a snooty one, but one that gives us affordable options and doesn’t shame us if we wonder out loud what wine pairs with corn dogs), and Jen’s own family (sisters, brother and mom) to talk about their family food moments and give up the secrets of their most loved and hated family meals. But for this episode, we’re going deep behind the scenes and uncovering the mystery of how the pictures of food we see in advertisements, websites, instagram feeds, books and more look so darn good. There are people who specialize in photographing food to make it look as sumptuous as possible, and other folks who “style” the food so it appears in the most beautiful atmospheres, and the chefs who cook up every recipe to its ultimate best so the photog and stylist can enhance the magic around it. If you’ve ever been curious as to how that all happens, we have the actual team who put together Jen’s cookbook, and they’re here to dish about all the hours, details, and antics that go into this kind of work, and how they got to the mouth-watering final results. Mackenzie, Maite and Taylor are the dream team behind so many beautiful food shoots and you’ll love the triumphs and the fails they share (including a story about Jen’s Satay with Peanut Dipping Sauce recipe that somehow resembled something REALLY unappetizing) and other hilarious challenges and triumphs that happened while creating Jen’s beautiful new cookbook. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Better Help | Visit Betterhelp.com/ForTheLove to get 10% off your first month of therapy. Chime | Sign up for your Chime Credit Builder Visa Credit Card today Chime.com/ForTheLove Feed These People | Pre-order Jen’s new cookbook and get free extra recipes, cooking videos, and more at jenhatmaker.com/feedthesepeople. Book is on shelves Oct 18, 2022. Thought-Provoking Quotes “I think my goal with photography, food or not, but especially with food, is to connect, is to make people feel connected. And I love doing that by making things relatable instead of aspirational.” - Mackenzie, food photographer “Food styling is such a different task because you have to think of all the potential issues that could happen, not only with the actual making of the food, but when you're actually putting it in front of the camera, and the transition that just naturally happens in food.” - Maite, chef and food designer “I was in Fiesta, if you're not in Texas, that's like this amazing Mexican grocery store, in the canned aisle, and called Mackenzie. And I was like, ‘This might sound crazy, but what if we built a wall of canned food?’ And to her credit, she was like, ‘If you have a vision, let's give it a shot.’ And I think that's a really fun shot. And it was exciting.” - Taylor, food stylist and designer Guests’ LinksMaite’s Website Maite’s Instagram Taylor’s Website Taylor’s Instagram Mackenzie’s Website Makenzie’s Instagram Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode Feed These People: Slam Dunk Recipes for Your Crew by Jen Hatmaker Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s time to bring a close to our Dating, Sex, & Relationships series. And what better way to wrap it all than hearing a candid conversation from Jen and her person–Tyler Merritt. If you’ve listened to this series, you might have noticed that Jen has mentioned Tyler–a long time activist and author—a time or two, and that part of the reason for this series was to explore some new territory that Jen has only been exposed to over the last year or so as she tentatively put her toe in the dating waters after the end of her 26 year marriage in 2020. As we’ve stepped through all the new ways we can meet people, or explored the choice to be single, or looked at how to start over after divorce or loss, we’ve heard the threads of Jen and Tyler’s story in all of this mix. And now, they’re here to give us some insight as to “how it’s going,” with all the joys and challenges every new relationship faces, plus some never before heard conversations about how they came together from completely different places in life including; long time married with kids vs. long time single with no kids, navigating the nuances of being a bi-racial couple and coming from completely different cultural circumstances, balancing their careers while nurturing a budding relationship and the bittersweet reality of dating long-distance. This episode is packed with some “in the moment” musings from both Jen and Tyler and also includes some hilarious takes on how a relationship that started as a new friendship turned into long daily text sessions moving to hours long phone conversations, their “define the relationship” talk, and culminating with a fun bonus segment–the For the Love team’s version of “The Newlywed Game,”--where we see how well Jen and Tyler really know each other (you’ll want to see this on video as well over on Jen’s YouTube). * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I just remember thinking, ‘This is weird. This is special. There's something special happening here.’ [Maybe] I just met a lifelong friend and we're going to have to meet up in New York and go see shows–I don't know what's happening.’” - Jen Hatmaker “I remember telling you I have to have conversations with the people that are close to me in my life because I'm just known as being single, and me not being single affects my single people and it's a lot.” - Tyler Merritt “What's been great about being in a relationship with somebody who has such a different set of circumstances from me; and it's not just single and married, it's black and it's white and it's only child, it's oldest of four, it is vegetarian, it is hamburgers, and it's no kids, it's five kids. We've got a lot, we have a lot of really interesting differences. And I think I can say honestly that most of them have been really good for me to navigate and to learn.” - Jen Hatmaker “[I want] to kind of encourage anybody that's in a racial relationship that it doesn't matter how progressive you are, it doesn't matter how far you are into the movement, you're going to run into things that are just different and you've just got to make your way through it.” - Tyler Merritt Guest’s Links: Tyler’s website: https://thetylermerrittproject.com/ Tyler’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thetylermerrittproject Tyler’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thetylermerrittproject/ Tyler’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/ttmproject Tyler’s YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPB48_JfK-VMnYQPTYyMX5Q Connect with Jen! Jen’s website: http://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram: https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook: https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As we’ve been learning in our Dating, Sex and Relationship series, there is no one right way to go about finding satisfaction in these areas of life. And the same is true for sex. You deserve to find joy and pleasure in your body and your sexuality just as you are, no matter what. There are so many things that culture has told us about our bodies and our sexuality that aren’t true. We’re going to walk through some of those misnomers and some healthy ways to approach sex with our very wise guest, sex educator and return visitor to our show, Emily Nagoski. Emily describes her mission as helping women live with joy and confidence inside their bodies. She wants us to know that our bodies have wisdom to share, and that our bodies can be trusted–their intuition is actually good for us and our protection. She explains what a sex drive is (actually, what it isn’t, because it’s not actually a thing–surprise!). Emily also shares key findings from couples who sustain strong sexual connection over the long term (and those two things aren’t what people most generally think they are). In this frank conversation about sex, Emily encourages us to lean into our sexual pleasure and shake off any hesitations that are usually due to cultural shame or baggage. And if you think that exploring your sexuality isn’t possible with a busy career, kids, and other responsibilities, Emily removes the myth that scheduling sex makes it less hot. When we normalize all sorts of sexual responses, we remove barriers that keep us from making space for all this pleasure that has always been ours to claim. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I think having curiosity about our own bodies and continually learning in a non-judgmental way is really important. Trusting the message your body is sending you more than anyone else's expressed opinion about what should be happening with your body. We can believe our bodies over and above anybody else's opinion about bodies.” - Emily Nagoski “We actually heal ourselves when we allow uncomfortable feelings to melt through our bodies. On the other side of it, that process has healed our bodies and freed us from the lies that we were told when we were small.” - Emily Nagoski “The person you are is a person worth being. This is the whole you're enough, but the thing is–you are enough. It is only in this like culturally constructed comparison against a fictional and often deliberately unachievable ideal that we torture ourselves about the way our sexuality works.” - Emily Nagoski “There is no quota of pleasure. There's no such thing as too little pleasure. And there's no such thing as too much pleasure. Nobody gets to judge or decide about your experience of pleasure.” - Emily Nagoski “Let's make a world with less body shame. Let's make a world where girls are raised to believe that they have a basic right to bodily autonomy and that pleasure is their birthright. They have the right to all the pleasure that their body is capable of experiencing without being afraid of it or ashamed of it or needing to prioritize somebody else's pleasure over theirs.” - Emily Nagoski “Neurologically, pleasure is a practice. The more we practice paying attention to pleasure, the easier it is for our brains to notice pleasure.” - Emily Nagoski “Have pleasure. Desire will follow.” - Emily Nagoski Emily Nagoski’s Links: Emily’s website: https://www.emilynagoski.com/ Emily’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/enagoski/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - http://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

When we were putting this series together about love and sex and relationships, we knew we had to have a guest that was well-versed in the ways of dating through online apps and digital services. For those of us who may be seeking a partner for the first time, or maybe we’re back in the dating pool after leaving a relationship–we can all benefit from practical tips on how to navigate it all. All the questions you could possibly think of related to online dating–we’ve got you covered, like: what do you look for when you’re looking at someone’s online profile? What are the red flags? How do I make my own profile reflect who I am and what I want? And is having a meal on a first date really a good idea? [Spoiler Alert: No.] We’ve got just the person to hold our hand through what can be an overwhelming process—we’re happy to introduce online dating coach, Perri Schneider to the For the Love community. She's going to answer all these questions for us and then some, and you’re going to want to take note of what she has to say. Perri's story is one many of us can relate to. After getting fed up with less than stellar experiences in her attempts at modern dating, she decided to help others navigate this online space. She learned through trial and error, and she’s got the 411 on how to master the process. She helps her clients shift their approach and their intentions with dating apps in the hopes that her clients find precisely what they are looking for–whether it is new experiences, casual fun, relationships, or even their dream partner. Consider this your field guide on which apps to use, how to approach a first date, what to do if you’re ghosted, and so much more–and maybe you’ll even find love along the way. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Liquid IV | Get 25% off at liquid-iv.com using promo code For The Love Feed These People | Pre-order Jen’s new cookbook and get free extra recipes, cooking videos, and more at jenhatmaker.com/feedthesepeople. Book is on shelves Oct 18, 2022. All the Dish Tour | Jen is going on tour and will have special guests at each stop! Find your city and get your tickets at jenhatmaker.com. Thought-Provoking Quotes “Find one or two apps that you've kind of heard of or that have a good reputation, and just get your toe into the water. Just go for it. And remember, you are in the driver's seat. It's great. If someone's giving you the heebie-jeebies, you can unmatch someone.” - Perri Schneider “When you're actively looking at profiles, make it your one active task. That way, you're limiting your time spent and you're kind of pushing away the ability for you to fall into that garbage-y feeling.” - Perri Schneider “There's no rush to meet seven people at once. Enjoy it. Revel in it. Dating should be fun and enjoyable, first and foremost.” - Perri Schneider “The best way to kind of break into the dating world and really brace yourself for potential rejection is get on the dang phone with them.” - Perri Schneider “You're never going to find success when you're not in a space where you can ease-in and really present yourself authentically.” - Perri Schneider Perri Schneider’s LinksPerri’s website Perri’s Instagram Perri’s Twitter Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Producer's Note: Mature subject matter around sex is discussed in this episode. We’re covering it all in our Relationships, Sex and Dating series, and this week’s episode has a twist. It’s not all flowers, heart emojis, and adrenaline when it comes to love and relationships–finding them, keeping them, growing them. Some of us have done all those things–possibly for many years–and yet for many reasons, find ourselves thrust back into the dating pool after divorce, or death, or when a long term relationship ends. And maybe we never thought we’d have to look to find love again after so many years of being in a relationship. It’s unexpected, it’s disappointing and disorienting. We’ve become strangers in a strange land. Fortunately, we have a guest this week who is going to help map us through that strange land and her name is Laura Stassi. Laura was married for 30 years and went through what researchers have labeled “gray divorce.” As she started to come out of the daze that can set in when your life is completely uprooted in this way–she began to realize that there were a lot more people that had been through the same thing than she had ever imagined. In fact, it’s a worldwide trend. As she noticed that she was in plentiful company with others who were coming out of long term partnerships and trying to figure out what was next, she set her mind to research and that research eventually turned into a popular public radio backed podcast called “Dating While Gray.” Laura and Jen get into it all; How do you navigate today’s world of dating when men and women have thousands of options to choose from via dating apps? What’s it like to have sex with someone new after having sex with the same person for many years? How do you handle finances when you’re both grown ups with assets and income? Find these answers and more from both Laura’s and Jen’s experience, plus a little encouragement that when you’re truly open to new possibilities, the world can open up for you in amazing ways. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Betterhelp | Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove. All the Dish Tour| Jen is going on tour! Find your city and get your tickets at jenhatmaker.com. Feed These People| Pre-order Jen’s new cookbook and get free extra recipes, cooking videos, and more at jenhatmaker.com/feedthesepeople. Book is on shelves Oct 18, 2022. Thought-Provoking Quotes “I look back now and people were like, ‘Why were you fighting the end of your marriage so much?’ I was like, ‘You know what? I was scared. I was scared out of my mind.’ Not that I didn't have the strength to be on my own, but I didn't know anybody else who was single.” - Laura Stassi “Everybody needs to learn how to be on their own happily, financially, emotionally, physiologically. You just need to be comfortable in your own skin, in your own space, in your own skin, however that may look.” - Laura Stassi “One thing that would behoove all of us is to learn how to be more open with everything. For some of us, I feel like I'm more open mainly because I was forced into it. When you're forced into single's world after being in married land, if you stay close minded about anything, I don't think you're going to have a happy life.” - Laura Stassi “Money is one of those things that if you're going to become involved with somebody, you need to talk about it. Maybe that means you don't commingle. Maybe that means you don't live together without a cohabitation agreement. The minute you start joining lives officially or unofficially, you want to be very clear about finances.” - Laura Stassi Laura’s Links Laura Stassi’s Instagram Laura Stassi’s Twitter Laura Stassi’s Facebook Dating While Gray Podcast Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Calling all book nerds! Are you looking for a place where your book-loving heart can flourish? Join us at jenhatmakerbookclub.com, and become one of our sisters in nerdiness. For August 2022, Jen and the club read Shauna Niequist’s I Guess I Haven’t Learned That Yet. Now, no one in this community is new to Shauna, she has appeared on the show before and is Jen’s dear friend and tour mate.. But in case you are new to this community, Shauna is an author and speaker who authentically shares the hardships she faces and how she works through them. Her newest book, I Guess I Haven’t Learned That Yet is a poignant and humbling look at her faith, health struggles, and feelings of loneliness as she entered a new phase of life. Every reader can find themselves in the pages, as Shauna is so adept in bringing her story to life in ways we can all relate to. So join us as Jen and Shauna talk about reinventing faith, working towards better health, and healing as a community. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Join the sisterhood in nerdiness today at jenhatmakerbookclub.com. Feed These People| Pre-order Jen’s new cookbook and get free extra recipes, cooking videos, and more at jenhatmaker.com/feedthesepeople. Book is on shelves Oct 18, 2022. Fall Tour | Get your tickets for Jen’s All The Dish tour at www.jenhatmaker.com Thought-Provoking Quotes “The point of storytelling, the point of being a writer is not reporting on your own life. It's holding out these little edges of your own experience and offering them to someone else as an active service saying, ‘Does this help? Does this make you feel a little less alone in the world? Could this keep you company along the rougher parts of your journey?’" – Shauna Niequist “You can live in the most beautiful house in the world or you can have the coolest friends in the world or the coolest experiences, if your mind and body are not working, none of that matters. None of it.” – Shauna Niequist “There are seasons where we can't always find a church home and that's okay. And then you practice your faith in a field or watching the water or with your journal, or as you walk the city streets and you pray that maybe there will be a time when you can sit at the back of a church, but your faith doesn't have to look the same way forever.” – Shauna Niequist Shauna’s LinksWebsite Instagram I Guess I Haven’t Learned That Yet - Shauna Niequist Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Our For the Love of Dating, Sex and Relationships series continues, and lest you think we’re solidly in the camp of “all people must be paired up,” let us assure you we’re firmly on the side of choosing whatever state of being (attached or not) best fits your life. We’re here, in this episode, to talk about the state and the choice of singleness. So maybe you’re unattached and you want to find the love of your life. Perhaps you’re getting pressure from friends and family as to why you remain available. (we can all hear that well-meaning person’s voice in our ear–”but you’re such a catch! Why are you still single??). Maybe you’ve gone on a LOT of dates (bad and good) and you’re ready to get off that train, but don’t want to give up the notion of potentially finding someone one day. We have good news. You get to choose to be happily single. And that does not preclude you from future partnership. So maybe the happily single part is what you’re struggling with (and that others in your life who want to see you partnered up aren’t helping) but our guest today knows what you’re going through and wants you to know you’re not alone. After years of actively dating and pursuing dates through a variety of digital means, writer Shani Silver decided she didn’t want to spend the rest of her 30’s swiping through face after face to see if maybe love would find her. She decided to go a different route and is here to share where it's led her on her quest to be happy with who and where she is right now. Shani likes to say that she is not an advocate for singlehood necessarily, but an advocate for women feeling good while single. She wrote a book called A Single Revolution: Don’t Look for a Match, Light One which she hopes is helping women feel better about this incredibly valuable time in their lives. She gives us pointers on how to make ourselves available for all kinds of experiences and people–whether we’re looking for love or not—and surprise, it doesn’t necessarily have to involve dating apps or even dating itself! During their conversation, Jen also discusses her tentative steps into singlehood after 26 years of marriage and her brief experience on dating apps, and how love organically found her. Single, married, divorced or looking for love, we can all look at this time in our lives (and in the lives of our friends) as one to be embraced, not scorned, and why, more than ever, it can be a positive, endlessly full-of-possibility way of living. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “What if being single wasn't bad? What if being single was good and valuable and a really cool, positive endlessly possible season of your life? What if it was good? It's challenging just the fabric of our brains in terms of what singlehood means. But that's where it has to start.” - Shani Silver “You can look forward to your future relationships. You can even pursue them to the extent that you're comfortable doing so. Dating is not a prerequisite for partnership. You can also value and cherish all of the opportunity that you have now to live happily.” - Shani Silver “I would suggest to people and couples is whatever effort a single [person] is making to be a part of your life, if you can, try to reciprocate that effort. And if you can't, let them know why.” - Shani Silver “We've got to learn to be happy for people. You don't want to live your life as a jealous person. Be happy for people. Be happy.” - Shani Silver “We deserve more ways out of singlehood misery than just “find someone” and [those ways] are abundant. They do exist. That's why I talk as ferociously as I do because I found them and I love them. If I can pull myself out of the darkest pit of singlehood despair that exists, anyone can.”- Shani Silver Shani Silver’s Links Shani Silver Website Shani Silver Instagram Shani Silver Twitter Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description We’re bringing you all the goods with our For the Love of Dating, Sex and Relationships series. So if you’ve ever tried dating as a fully grown adult, you might have a few feelings about it. Maybe you’ve been swiping and swiping and swiping (and if this makes no sense to you, it’s okay–you’ll know what it means by the end of this series) and you’re just not connecting with anyone who sets your world on fire. It can really be the wild west out there in the digital dating world, but we’re here to help. Perhaps you’ve perused the dating sites and maybe you’ve even joined a site, created a profile, or taken the leap to go on a date. Dating sites have successfully brought millions of people together, but as they say, you might have to kiss a lot of frogs before you meet your prince or princess (no offense to frogs). But there are more than a few ways to find love if you’re looking for it. And this week we are excited to talk about the world of matchmaking–a way of bringing people together that has a long and storied history–and is still alive and well in our digital age. Founder of RBL (Real Black Love) Matchmaking service Joseph Dixon is on the show with his colleague Paris Denise to give us the finer points of finding love through a matchmaker. . Joseph and Paris entered the world of matchmaking after seeing negative experiences that were affecting long and lasting relationships in their community. Since then, they have been focused and dedicated to connecting people for committed relationships in and for the black community. Matchmaking has come a long way since the Victorian era (and even since our 70’s favorite, The Dating Game) and now with experts like Paris and Joseph at the ready, you can take advantage of a deeper way to find someone to share your life–the art of matchmaking has led to thousands of successful relationships! * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Betterhelp | Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove. Rothy’s | Get $20 off your first purchase at rothys.com/forthelove. All The Dish Tour | Find your city and get your tickets at jenhatmaker.com. Thought-Provoking Quotes “I got divorced. I was in my early 30s. There was nothing out there for African American singles looking for substantial connections, and me being a web developer, I decided to go ahead and take the onus on myself to actually build something out to help people like myself find substantial relationships.” – Joseph Dixon “We're taking the time to teach people that you need to holistically look at people. And of course income is important, of course assets are important, but also a person's character, their conflict resolution skills, their emotional intelligence and their support, and their general personality and how they receive love and how they give love is important as well.” – Paris Denise “Change up your dating cycle, change up your dating pattern because you don't know what you don't like until you actually don't like it.” – Joseph Dixon “When it came to dating apps, when it comes to Black people, it was a taboo in our community. And if you were on a dating app, you didn't talk about it at all, right? This is literally less than 10 years ago.” – Joseph Dixon “Don't tell me what you want. I need to find out what you need, because if we can establish that first, then you may find out the person that you've been looking for is not actually the person that you really need." – Joseph Dixon “People are dealing with a lot of relationship anxiety. They're dealing with a lot of doubt, a lot of trauma. I'm not a genie and I'm not a wizard, but I can definitely get in the trenches with you and help you fight this battle, because it's challenging being single and finding the person that you want.” – Paris Denise Joseph & Paris’ LinksReal Black Love Website Real Black Love Instagram Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

One aspect of dating after a breakup or divorce is the terrifying ordeal of being known again. Whether it’s because you can’t imagine opening yourself back up to someone in complete vulnerability or maybe you can’t fathom anyone having enough time to plumb the depths of your idiosyncrasies—I mean, who is ever going to take the time to learn your quirks and help you celebrate them in all their unapologetic glory, again? And how are you going to ever forgive the person who disappointed you and doesn’t want to be your #1 knower anymore? With Jen jumping back in the saddle in the dating world, we needed someone to help us all laugh and sift through post-divorce dating tribulations. Cameron Esposito is a comedian, author, podcast host, actor and recovering Catholic; and we’re delighted to have her lead the way for this episode of the Dating, Sex and Relationships series. Like Jen, Cameron went through a public facing divorce and has since found love and happiness. They talk about the complications of coming into yourself while dating when you’re dealing with grief from divorce, trauma from a strict religious culture, and new unexplored feelings around your gender and body. No stone is left unturned in this conversation and Cameron’s frank and honest storytelling is a balm for those of us afraid of a future that doesn’t look like our past. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Join the sisterhood in nerdiness today at jenhatmakerbookclub.com. ABLE | Head to ableclothing.com and use code JEN to get 15% off your order. Thought-Provoking Quotes “Certainty used to make me feel safe, it felt like guardrails around me and the way that I knew what the rules were, I knew what to do and not to do. Then those began to lose their appeal, of course, and then became their own prison, ultimately. But curiosity is a completely different posture.” – Cameron Esposito “Queer culture isn't actually about sex, but because it's been criminalized and othered, it also was embraced and the culture was built around it.” – Cameron Esposito “To not have characters who represent us [in media] is to remove us from the world. If we're not there, you've removed us.” – Cameron Esposito “If somebody dies and is erased from the planet, then we can go to that person's people and it's a little more clean to understand that that person might feel grief. I think in the case of divorce, that can get really muddled for folks.” – Cameron Esposito Cameron’s LinksWebsite Instagram Facebook Twitter Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re starting a new series that is going to be fire–it’s For the Love of Dating, Sex and Relationships. We’re going to cover a lot of territory over the life of this series–and with this episode we’re going to start with a question; what was it that you learned about sex during the most formative years of your life? Because whether you realize it or not, this can greatly shape how you approach sex as an adult. Maybe you’ve been unraveling what it is you think about sex, how you think about your body, what sex means to you–and you’re tracing it back to what you learned as teenager or young adult–and maybe that education wasn’t positive. To help guide us through making those connections to our early sexual education and how we view sex today is therapist Jay Stringer–returning for his second appearance on the show. Jay pulls back the curtain on the teachings many of us got about sex when we were young. Even if you never were a part of movements like “True Love Waits,” or received lessons on purity culture by your church, or other religious organizations–perhaps there was a rigid sexual space in the childhood home you grew up in. We’re speaking to all the ways sex might have been presented to us with messages of shame. Jay encourages us to look at our sexual stories, seeking ways to find healing and wholeness toward a healthy view of sex. And bonus–for you parents who find talking about sex with your kids akin to a slow, painful death, Jay and Jen talk through ways can engage our kids around sex without the shame approach that a lot of us experienced, and to have those conversations in a loving, age-appropriate way by being open and responsive. Content Warning: This episode talks extensively about sex, sexuality, and unwanted sexual behaviors, so it may not be suitable for young listeners. Thought-Provoking Quotes “If you hate your sexual desire, and you are militantly trying to stop it, you are going to develop a very severe and harmful theology, and that's exactly what happened in purity culture.” – Jay Stringer “I've seen the purity culture really affect women in three particular ways. I would say that it deprioritizes women's sexual pleasure. It set women up for sexual violation. Then, the third, is that it contributed to sexual pain.” – Jay Stringer “I think one of the greatest myths out there is that you can't change your past. In some ways, the past is far easier to change than the future, in that you can go back to that scared, adolescent girl, and you can begin to mother her. You can ask her, ‘what are the things that you wish that you would have known back in the day?’” – Jay Stringer “When we don't have language for what we're experiencing or what we're coming out of, we aren't going to have language to be able to create a new sexual world, so we've got to educate ourselves. We've got to get into community and start talking through this stuff in order to rewrite our sexual script.” – Jay Stringer “View sexual difficulties as a stage to be able to rewrite your story.” – Jay Stringer Jay’s Links: Website - https://jay-stringer.com Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/JayStringerUnwanted/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jay_stringer_/ Twitter - https://twitter.com/_jaystringer Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - http://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’ve reached the end friends, sadly Me Camp 2022 is over for the summer. And just like real camp, coming back home is wonderful and bittersweet at the same time. Making new friends, trying new things and getting outside the everyday routine is the magic of camp and Jen reflects on her time in Aspen to her last days in Grand Marais with gratefulness to be able to take this kind of time for herself (and to invite others into the fold, turning MeCamp into WeCamp!). Jen shares how MeCamp began; it started with the need to get away to regroup from a chaotic and heartbreaking season of her life and led to a revelation of what it truly means to take time for yourself to heal. She vowed that she wouldn’t go another year without taking this time, but instead of being born out of sadness, this year’s MeCamp was a deliberate, and joyful excursion. While listing all the the virtues of solo travel, Jen gives us some practical ideas on how we can replicate our own MeCamp— even if we’re not able to travel far or for an extended time. Enjoy this last letter from MeCamp 2022, and let’s start dreaming about our own 2023 MeCamps! * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Chime | Get started at chime.com/forthelove today! Third Love | Head over to thirdlove.com/forthelove to get 20% off your order. MeCourse | Reconnect with your faith today at mecourse.org. Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Calling all book nerds! Are you looking for a place where your book-loving heart can flourish? Join us at jenhatmakerbookclub.com, and become one of our sisters in nerdiness. For July 2022, Jen and the club read Sarah Blake’s The Guest Book. Sarah is the author of several books including a book of poetry, the New York Times bestseller The Postmistress, and our book this month, The Guest Book. The Guest Book was a New York Times bestseller, an Amazon Best Book of 2019, and found it’s spot at #1 on the Indie Next List in May of 2019. So join us as Jen and Sarah get into what it looks like to write a book over the course of 9 years, how we can all find growth and understanding in the history of our family, and why it’s so important to continue to evolve over time. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Me Course | Reconnect with your faith today at mecourse.org. Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Join the sisterhood in nerdiness at jenhatmakerbookclub.com Thought-Provoking Quotes “When Obama was running for president in 2008, he reminded us that his presidency was going to kick off a kind of racial awareness. And he especially invoked Faulkner's line, ‘the past isn't dead in this country, it isn't even past.’ And so I wanted to think about why that is, and it seems that doing the family novel was going to help.” – Sarah Blake “We are often echoing or repeating our parents or grandparents without knowing that's what we're doing because we don't know fully who they are. I really wanted to think about that, or I wanted the novel to think about that.” – Sarah Blake “I wanted this novel to take a look at the history of racism and antisemitism. And in particular, I wanted to look at it in terms of my family. What was the history inside?” – Sarah Blake Sarah’s LinksWebsite Books & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeBliss - Katherine Mansfield The Lighthouse Keeper’s Daughters - Hazel Gaynor To the Lighthouse - Virginia Woolf A Ghost in the Throat - Doireann Ní Ghríofa Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description With MeCamp on the tail end of it’s 2022 tenure, Jen is still traversing the wilds of Minnesota, trespassing on neighboring roofs to read her book, and bring her beloveds along on the ride with her. So as we enter week 3, Jen’s best girlfriends arrive for 4 days, followed by a visit from our favorite Hatmaker sisters, Remy and Sydney. Jen also gives her takeaways on the value of carving out this kind of time in your life–whether it’s a few days in a tent a couple of miles from your house, or a staycation in a nearby town–it’s really about the time for YOU, and less about where you go or how long you retreat. But for now, as we live vicariously through Jen in Minnesota this week, we’ll visit the local country store, walk between 400 and 4 million stairs on a hike, bike along the lake, and happily wear sweatshirts in July. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Rothy’s | Get $20 off your first purchase at rothys.com/forthelove. Betterhelp | Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove. ABLE | Get 15% off sitewide using code JEN at ableclothing.com. Me Course Faith | Open the door to your faith journey today at mecourse.org. Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This year’s Me Camp is in full swing, community. We have traveled from Austin to Aspen, and now up, up, up to the Northwoods of Minnesota, where we find ourselves in Grand Marais. Nestled on the shores of Lake Superior, this teeny tiny town was home to Jen for 3 weeks. And she is doing it all. Eating a plethora of fried fish salads, skipping rocks in the bay, potentially trespassing to sit on a picturesque roof and read her book and drink her wine. BONUS: Jen is joined by none other than the man of the moment Tyler Merritt, who discusses his unique state of being in the great white north, and his surprising and ever-so-northeastern encounter with a music-loving octogenarian. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Me Camp Merch | Grab your merch today at jenhatmaker.com/shop! Me Course Faith | Open the door to your faith journey today at mecourse.org. FOCL | Get 20% off at focl.com using code FORTHELOVE to grab your new favorites today. Books & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeThe Lighthouse Keeper’s Daughter - Hazel Gaynor Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You guys, it’s time again for us to load up the suitcases, grab the comfy shoes, and head on out to Me Camp 2022. What is MeCamp you say? Jen took an extended solo trip to Maine last year after a really tough season. What she thought might be lonely and maybe a bit TOO reflective became something so rejuvenating and powerful in her life, she couldn’t keep it to herself and began sharing her experiences online with her community. So this year, she decided to mix it up and do some more solo travel (and add some friends in the mix during the time) and pull in her podcast community for all the insight, learnings and fun. This year, join Jen as she spends time in the beautiful Rocky Mountains for week 1 of MeCamp 2022! Binge Jen’s first full week while she hits the town with an open heart and mind, eats where the locals eat, and shop where they shop. Bonus tidbits: she visits the Aspen Ideas Festival, a space filled with some of the smartest humans alive (and maybe a random Katie Couric spotting!). Join us as all (even you folks from Aspen, who might have spotted Jen out there) as we all live vicariously through Jen’s trip to rest, reflect, and learn. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Betterhelp | Head to betterhelp.com/forthelove to get 10% off your first month. Liquid IV | Get 25% off at liquidiv.com using the code FORTHELOVE at checkout. Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Join the sisterhood in nerdiness today at jenhatmakerbookclub.com! Books & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeAspen Ideas Festival Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The past few weeks have been so nurturing to the collective soul of this podcast community. We have gotten together with a friend, and caught up on all that matters in our worlds (as friends do) and talked through the changes we’ve both faced recently, on finding and keeping friendship alive at this season in our lives, and how we’ve each evolved in our own beliefs. And we’re always a little sad to say goodbye to friends, but we know that the bonds we’ve built here will keep us going til we can meet again. For the last episode of the For the Love of Conversations series, Jen and Kelly share about the men in their lives–from their friends, to their sons, their brothers, fathers and their partners—we speak to the unique relationship the opposite sex brings to our lives. And right now in our culture, in some ways that are fair, and other ways that aren't, men are getting thrown under the bus, somewhat carte blanche. And this is rightly so in many cases and much overdue in some areas. But it still stands that there are good men and boys in our culture, men that defy the misogynistic stereotypes, and they do lift up women and are there for their sisters and their wives and their daughters and their mothers. Jen and Kelly poke at the view of men where they are portrayed as wild and rough and emotionally unregulated–those traits can sometimes be found–but they share stories of their fathers, brothers and friends that show the reverse can be true (Kelly’s story about her dad is a 10-kleenex-er, so get ready), and that the men in their lives have truly taught them how to love better. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Chime | Get started at chime.com/forthelove to start today! Catalina Crunch | Head to catalinacrunch.com/forthelove to get 15% off your first order plus free shipping. MeCourse | Save $20 on the parenting MeCourse using the code Parenting20 at mecourse.org. You can also get half off all 4 courses using the code 4CourseBundle. Thought-Provoking Quotes “Isn't it funny how lucky we can get when the women that we love have men that we love too?” – Jen Hatmaker “A table is better with women at it, it also holds that a table is better with men at it. It shouldn't be a room full of either.” – Kelly Corrigan “It's not true that boys don't have feelings. It's not true that they don't love deeply. It's not true that love doesn't cut them just as deep as it does girls. It's not true that they're not scared to ask a girl to prom. They are tender. It's just the packaging is so wild.” – Jen Hatmaker “I think we have this metric for coming close to somebody that we love in their pain or in their suffering, that we've got to hit the right notes. We've got to get the formula right. That's not really how suffering works. It's just that you have to do this, but we'll make sure you're just not alone while you're doing it. That's enough.” – Jen Hatmaker “My parents set a really good example for me of being deeply connected to their friends, the men, the women, everybody. And so I never knew that that wasn't a thing. I just assumed you grow up and you create deep and lasting relationships with the men and women in your life. That's just how you live.” – Jen Hatmaker Kelly’s LinksWebsite Instagram Kelly’s Podcast, Kelly Corrigan Wonders Books & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeKate Baer Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome back to another episode of our For the Love of Conversations series with one of Jen’s best loved friends, author, speaker and podcaster Kelly Corrigan. Both Jen and Kelly have seen strong beliefs give way to new beliefs, and old beliefs be tested by time and experience. It's a wonder to learn as you move through the world, even if those lessons are hard won and hands down, a ton of them are. It's a beautiful and redemptive thing to take a step back and level the playing field you are on–in whatever season of life you’re in–and see if everything that makes up “you:” all the stories you tell yourself about your life and other people and what happened to you and even about your own self–that composite of what you believe. And take heart in knowing that your beliefs don’t have to remain the same forever– they can grow and change with us. Jen and Kelly go deep into what beliefs they hold dear, how the truth that binds us might look a little different than it used to for all of us, and the comfort they find in a community that lives with a sense of curiosity and how to keep that alive for every phase of our beliefs. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Rothy’s | Get $20 off your first purchase at rothys.com/forthelove. KiwiCo | Get 50% off your first month plus free shipping on any crate line at kiwico.com using code FORTHELOVE. Betterhelp | Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove. Thought-Provoking Quotes “I think we're built to evaluate instantly friend or foe. I think that's our evolutionary nature, but we're not on the Savannah anymore. We can take a minute to make that judgment. In fact, the longer we can hold off on making that judgment, maybe the more interesting people and stories we’ll be able to consume in a lifetime.” – Kelly Corrigan “None of us have everything exactly right because that's not a thing. There's no such thing as always right or always wrong. I just think we would become so much more interesting as a people if we were able to humbly take in a person's differing experience, or opinion, or worry. Those are the people that I want in my life right now. Those are the ones.” – Jen Hatmaker “We can all love each other and not believe the same things. That's just not a requirement.” – Kelly Corrigan “Is your version of faith making you kinder, is it making you more loving, is it making you more humble, is it creating peace around you, is it good to other people? That's a kind of faith I can get behind. If it's making you mean, and angry, and hateful, and scared, that needs reexamining.” – Jen Hatmaker Kelly’s LinksWebsite Instagram Kelly’s Podcast, Kelly Corrigan Wonders Books & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeKate Baer Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Friendship is one of those gifts in life we can run to when it feels like the rest of the world just doesn’t get us. On a day when life hasn’t been cooperating exactly as you’d hoped, who hasn’t called that friend we can vent to, cry to, laugh with, and compare notes with? And the longer a friendship goes, the deeper the bond seems to be. But some of us are in spaces in our lives where we’ve had to follow another dream and leave the proximity of our friends. And the work of friendship takes on a different layer. It can be difficult to connect like we used to–even if it was just dropping by to say hi because you could–it’s harder to keep relationships alive when you don’t see your friend daily, weekly, or even monthly. In this second installment of our For the Love of Conversations with Jen and Kelly, we are talking all about friendship and how it changes as you mature, grow, and perhaps even re-locate. And how to keep it going strong—even across the divides of family commitments, jobs, and miles in between. Jen and Kelly first had this conversation over on Kelly’s podcast, but we loved it so much we had to share it here–plus–-Jen has added some of her own insights and comments regarding her friendship with Kelly and what she learned through their conversation. * * * Kelly’s Links: Website - https://www.kellycorrigan.com Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/kellycorrigan/?hl=en Kelly’s Podcast, Kelly Corrigan Wonders - https://www.kellycorrigan.com/podcast Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode: For the Love of Friendships: Savoring Your Friendships with Shauna Niequist - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcast/series-01/savoring-your-friendships-with-shauna-niequist/ Kate Baer - https://www.katebaer.com Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - http://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You know there really isn’t much that’s more comforting than sitting down with one of your friends and talking openly because you know they just get you. They have seen you grow and change and evolve and become who you are today–and they don’t try to stand in the way of that change however hard it may be for them, or for you. These conversations with friends are life-giving. And with that in mind, we thought it might be fun to have a series of conversations here in our podcast community with our best and brightest friends and dispensers of wisdom and humor. And our first conversation partner for this 4-part series is none other than one of our favorite humans herself–author, podcaster and speaker Kelly Corrigan. This first installment of For the Love of Conversations will bring us 4 weeks from Kelly’s own show, Kelly Corrigan Wonders, with new thoughts and insights from Jen herself at the front of each episode. To kick things off, Kelly and Jen tackle the good, the bad, and the ugliest parts of change. We all know that change is hard, not just for us, but for our people–and that pesky inability to see the future makes it even harder. Jen and Kelly lean into the notion that change can be beautiful. It helps us create the life we want for ourselves while growing us into the people we’ve always wanted to be. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Betterhelp | Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove. Stamps.com | Head to stamps.com using code FORTHELOVE to start your four week trial today. MeCourse | Save $20 on the parenting MeCourse using the code Parenting20 at mecourse.org. You can also get half off all 4 courses using the code 4CourseBundle. Thought-Provoking Quotes “Change, although it can be literally devastating, can also, and generally does, turn out to be a great and wonderful good.” – Jen Hatmaker “There's something in us, even in the worst possible scenario that compels us to live, that compels us to recover and to reach for hope and light and love.” – Jen Hatmaker “Somebody is going to make you laugh just when you thought you might never smile again. You get to borrow from their life force until your own returns.” – Jen Hatmaker “In chasing change the risk is worth the reward as it makes us fuller, rounder, more compassionate human people. It brings us closer to alignment, into what we love, what we're good at, what has meaning to us, what brings us to life.” – Jen Hatmaker Kelly’s LinksWebsite Instagram Kelly’s Podcast, Kelly Corrigan Wonders Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can’t Stop Talking - Susan Cain The Middle Place - Kelly Corrigan Worst End of School Year Mom Ever - Jen Hatmaker Simple Habit App Kate Baer Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As we come to the end of our Favorite Pastimes series, we hope you are filling your summer with your favorite activities —and maybe some new ones we’ve talked about here! Our series wouldn’t be complete without a conversation about one universal pastime that is approached with either love or loathing—cooking! Perhaps cooking has become nothing but drudgery for you and those ungrateful kids who eye your culinary masterpieces with disdain have made you turn to slinging out Lunchables and microwave mac and cheese. Or maybe you are single and cooking for one seems like a chore. Or maybe you *think* cooking could be your thing but you’re intimidated by the lingo and measurements and if you have the right appliances (Hot Pots! Air Fryers! Immersion Blenders! Oh my!). No matter where you fall on the cooking spectrum, easy and delicious summer cooking is within your reach and we have a guest who is here to help us claim our cooking identity. Teri Turner is an author, home cook, and podcast host who has turned her love of the kitchen into a whole career for herself. Her mantra is “It’s Just Food,” —takes the pressure off, right? She encourages us to find our “food thing” and how we can perfect that signature dish that will have even the most skeptical palates coming back for more. Teri’s tips include Whole30 options, gluten free dishes—she leaves nothing behind. Teri makes cooking seem accessible to us all—and promises our kitchens can be places of joy and magic-making. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Pair | Get glasses as unique as you are at paireyewear.com/forthelove for 15% off your first purchase. Thought-Provoking Quotes “I love sharing inspiration for food and I love tips and tricks to get you in the kitchen and to cook real food, because all of us are on our phones all the time. We're busy, we’re going out to eat. And we just have to get back to take a breath and get back to cooking some beautiful food. And find the joy that comes from cooking food, eating it with friends, and the celebration of cooking.” – Teri Turner “Here’s the thing, we have to eat anyway so we might as well surrender to it and allow cooking to be something spectacular and fun.” – Teri Turner “Go for what you want and make it happen and believe in yourself. And by the way have a lot of fun doing it.” – Teri Turner Teri’s LinksWebsite Table Talks Podcast Facebook Instagram Books & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeNo Crumbs Left : Whole30 Endorsed, Recipes for Everyday Food Made Marvelous - Teri Turner Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Calling all book nerds! Are you looking for a place where your book-loving heart can flourish? Join us at jenhatmakerbookclub.com, and become one of our sisters in nerdiness. For May 2022, Jen and the club read Abi Dare’s The Girl With The Louding Voice. Abi is originally from Lagos, Nigeria and went on to study law in the UK at the University of Wolverhampton and eventually earned her MA in Creative Writing at Birkbeck, University of London. Not only is she an incredible writer, she is also a major advocate for women’s education. Her husband inspired her to write this book and it came about after discussing how they saw housemaids treated during their childhood. The Girl With The Louding Voice was a New York Times Bestseller, a #ReadWithJenna Today Show book club pick, and it was an Indie Next Pick. This story whipped up a ton of talk and for a good reason, it helps folks see the impact lack of education, opportunity, and freedom can have on young girls across the world. So without further ado, please enjoy this conversation with author extraordinaire, Abi Dare. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Betterhelp | Head to betterhelp.com/forthelove for 10% off your first month. MeCourse | Save $20 on the parenting MeCourse using the code Parenting20 at mecourse.org. You can also get half off all 4 courses using the code 4CourseBundle. ABLE | Head to ableclothing.com and get 15% off sitewide using code JEN. Thought-Provoking Quotes “I knew I wanted to tell a story of a young girl who was semi illiterate and had only three years of education. And that was very different from who I am. And so I decided to try to create a character that I could give her the story that she deserves.” – Abi Dare “In your own little tiny way, and with tiny little gestures of kindness of reaching out, you can change a life. And you can make a difference.” – Abi Dare Abi’s LinksInstagram Twitter Books & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeBig Little Lies - Liane Moriarty My Sister, The Serial Killer - Oyinkan Braithwaite Open Water - Caleb Azuma Nelson Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Time to grab your passport and packing cubes! The world’s back open for travel—and if you’ve tried to book a trip recently, you know that, hello, the prices are a smidge higher than they used to be. But with a little planning and a lot of advice from The Points Guy, you can rack up the credit card points that’ll get you to unforgettable destinations around the world for a fraction of the price! Brian Kelly, The Points Guy himself, joins Jen to share how he turned his love of a good deal into a lifestyle brand sharing travel how-to’s for every budget from every corner of the planet (it’s a *wild* story!). Brian tips his hand on the best-kept trips you need to take at home and abroad, how you can earn enough points for a free flight to Europe in 90 days, all while building a credit score that can unlock opportunities at home while you plan your next getaway. #practical This episode is a treasure trove of travel tips, so grab a pen and paper—and maybe a fruity drink with an umbrella—because your next adventure is closer than you think! * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Rothy’s | Get $20 off your first purchase at rothys.com/forthelove. KiwiCo | Get 50% off your first month plus free shipping on any crate line at kiwico.com using code FORTHELOVE. Chime | Head to chime.com/forthelove to get started today! Thought-Provoking Quotes “I think what I've done with points is take this really granular boring subject and kind of make it fun and ‘look what I can do.’ And being 6'7" whenever I test out airline seats and hotels, I'm like, If I can be comfortable in this seat you can too. And I added my own personality into it whereas a lot of other bloggers were kind of clinical and just taking pictures of the plane seat and the plane whereas I kind of injected a little fabulousity into it.” – Brian Kelly “I just want to put this out there for people: if you're paying with cash or debit card, you're paying for my points. . . . When you pay cash, you're losing money because you're not getting the rewards that are built into the cost of goods.” – Brian Kelly “When you find amazing deals, book it because most airlines will let you cancel within a day. So don't call all your friends and try to herd the cats on taking the trip, book the flight and then take 24 hours to double check you can do it. Book now, think later, that's my advice.” – Brian Kelly “The coolest thing about points is that you can get points for free, essentially. In the US it's so lucrative—no other country can you get points paying your rent or doing online shopping. And so basically what you want to do, the foundation of any good points strategy, is maximizing your spending.” – Brian Kelly “There's certain places you go that are just spiritual that have that energy and it's Guatemala, the food, it's safe. I've been to Guatemala multiple times, and everyone I take is like, ‘This is amazing, why doesn't everyone go here?’” – Brian Kelly “I do believe people become better people, the more of the world they travel. You realize that other people are not scary, they're actually amazing.” – Brian Kelly Bryan’s LinksBrian’s website, The Points Guy Brian’s Instagram Brian’s farm, Carbon Ridge Animal Sanctuary Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

When it comes to hobbies and pastimes, the inspiration can be drawn from anywhere. Maybe it was something you did during the summer as a kid, or it was an activity you loved to do with your mom in her freetime. No matter where your inspiration stems from, perhaps you’ve returned to it today and it brings you peace, comfort and even healing. Our guest this week was diagnosed 15 years ago with Celiac Disease, with neurological implications that put her in a wheelchair. Looking for solace and healing, she turned to her two favorite things: reading and gluten free baking. Stephanie Hockersmith, aka, PieLadyBooks, took her therapeutic pastime and has turned it into an absolutely amazing Instagram page and now small business (and healer herself in the process)! She takes covers of her favorite books and turns them into the most incredible pies you have ever seen! If you are curious like we were when we first met Stephanie, be sure to head over to watch this episode on YouTube as we’ll be sharing some of the incredible pies she’s created there. You’ll be inspired as Stephanie talks about how she stumbled into this art, how it guided her healing process, and why believing in yourself creates magic if you let it. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Pair | Get glasses as unique as you are at paireyewear.com/forthelove for 15% off your first purchase. Me Course | Save $20 on the parenting MeCourse using the code Parenting20 at mecourse.org. You can also get half off all 4 courses using the code 4CourseBundle. Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Head to jenhatmakerbookclub.com to join our sisterhood in nerdiness today. ABLE | Head over to ableclothing.com and use code JEN to save 15% on anything. Thought-Provoking Quotes “I got really, really sick about 15 years ago. It was actually celiac disease. My husband really loved pies, so I thought, "You know what? I'm going to try to really master a yummy gluten-free pie.” I just researched and researched and researched and it kept me alive in a lot of ways. As you're healing and your body's getting stronger, I had this project to work on, and so I started making these really beautiful pies.” – Stephanie Hockersmith “It's exciting to see magic in yourself and to see yourself as something magical. I have a really hard time embracing that but pie making has helped me.” – Stephanie Hockersmith “I am abundantly grateful. It is the most weird little niche I could have ever imagined. I never expected it, and if I could say that to anybody it's I went from being in a wheelchair 15 years ago to The Today Show last week. So you just never know where your journey's going to go.” – Stephanie Hockersmith “Don't give up and keep fighting for that magical part of you that makes you feel alive, because it's crucial to who we are and allows us to pour out into others in such big ways.” – Stephanie Hockersmith “For anyone looking to find their creative niche, I would say to just start. Start something, find something that gives you spark.” – Stephanie Hockersmith Stephanie’s LinksInstagram Facebook Stephanie’s Girl Power Playlist Books & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeToday Show Appearance The Smallest Part - Amy Harmon Untamed - Glennon Doyle All The Blues Come Through - Metra Farrari The Girl With The Louding Voice - Abi Dare All Along You Were Blooming - Morgan Harper Nichols With The Fire on High - Elizabeth Acevedo Fight Song - Rachel Platten Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Aren’t we all inspired by people who have taken their favorite hobby, or their little side hustle, or their craft–and they invested in it, they loved it so much that it became their main thing? In this series, we’ve introduced a variety of pastimes we all can enjoy this summer–the kinds of things that give us that break from the daily grind–but in doing so, we’re also talking to folks who took the leap to make their pastime their career. And in this episode, we’re giving a nod to a pastime that’s been exploding over the past few years–a love for plants and gardening! For many, gardening has long been a part of their favorite pastimes, but we’re seeing it become more accessible to weekend gardeners, others who thought they could never be good at it, or those who thought the whole proposition of keeping another living thing fed and watered was overwhelming at best. Marcus Bridgewater, aka, Garden Marcus, is our horticultural guide to the secret of growing healthy plants, and simultaneously, becoming more healthy ourselves. He presides over an insanely popular Instagram account, is a content creator and a CEO of his company Choice Forward, where he offers workshops, presentations, life coaching, and more to empower individuals and strengthen communities. Jen shares the story of her metamorphosis from becoming a plant murderer to plant mom with the advent of two little hanging plants entrusted to her by friends in a season where she was struggling to nurture herself; much less two plants. Marcus also gives us a peek into his new book, How to Grow: Nurture Your Garden, Nurture Yourself, and shows that it is possible to keep ourselves, our loved ones and our plants thriving and growing. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Betterhelp | Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove. MeCourse | Save $20 on the parenting MeCourse using the code Parenting20 at mecourse.org. You can also get half off all 4 courses using the code 4CourseBundle. ABLE | Head over to ableclothing.com and use code JEN to save 15% on anything. Thought-Provoking Quotes “Not to deter people from plant care, but taking care of plants can be a science in a way. There are lots of levels of thought and things to consider, lots of variables that affect them, but the rewards are so cosmic that it makes all of that effort worth it.” – Marcus Bridgewater “Every time I walked into the garden, it made me a better teacher, it made me a better friend, a better person.” – Marcus Bridgewater “All living things respond to vibration. Your voice is a collection of vibrations, and so this means your voice can be a valuable tool if you use it wisely. So, be conscious of how you use your voice, because if you're not using your voice with kindness, chances are you're not building community.” – Marcus Bridgewater “There's no reason to not get plants, but there is also no reason to have them and have them decline and have them cost you. They're an incredible tool and that tool can become a vice if we are not conscious.” – Marcus Bridgewater “We need to plant seeds of love, kindness, patience, and positivity so that we can grow wholesome roots, that will yield trees of prosperity, which will then yield fruits of success that we can all enjoy. And I think that if we are more conscious of those seeds, we can live in a future that has a forest of prosperity for us to all enjoy.” – Marcus Bridgewater Marcus’s LinksWebsite Facebook Instagram Twitter Books & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeChoice Forward How to Grow: Nurture Your Garden, Nurture Yourself - Marcus Bridgewater Dana Hammarstrom - Co-Founder of Choice Forward Plants Mentioned From Easiest to Hardest to Maintain Philodendron Giganteum Dieffenbachia Silver Sword Philodendron Asparagus Fern Bromeliads Pothos Sweet Potato Ivy Snake Plants Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As we continue on in our Favorite Pastime series, we’re reveling in all the opportunities that are hiding in plain sight–through the beloved activities, we cherish in our spare time. No spare time, you say? We understand—and that’s where our series has a delightful twist–these folks took their passions and hobbies and turned them from hobbies into full-fledged careers. So you think those toaster cozies you like to knit can’t be a full time gig? Think again–we’ve got creators, makers and dreamers of all ilks–and this week’s guest is one for the books! She is an artist, a poet, a driftwood collecting connoisseur–yes you heard us right–and she is creating the most unique, beautiful and accessible art that you would ever hope to see. Jaime Kurowski has always felt the call to pursue art, as it’s ingrained in her family tree. So when she took a sabbatical from teaching to pursue her driftwood creations, it wasn’t a big surprise for anyone. But like many creatives, her work comes from a place of darkness. One devastating event led to another and Jaime found herself seeking healing from her profound emotional and physical brokenness. Part of her healing was finding a new way to unwind, express herself, and put light into the world. She came through that rough season and now has a company of her own that is thriving, and also heads up a collective of female business owners and artists who have gone through similar journeys, who all focus on finding the audacity to believe in themselves and their talents. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Stamps.com | Sign up for your 4-week trial today at stamps.com using code FORTHELOVE. MeCourse | Save $20 on the parenting MeCourse using the code Parenting20 at mecourse.org. You can also get half off all 4 courses using the code 4CourseBundle. Catalina Crunch | Head to catalinacrunch.com/forthelove for 15% off your first order plus free shipping. Thought-Provoking Quotes “This is my first year where I'm a full-time creative, and I'm reinventing the things that I loved about teaching, my passion for creative writing, and my passion for the words that we have on repeat in our head, women, adults, and children. And then using the driftwood to give it art.” – Jaime Kurowski “She was free. And when she returned to the trees, she dressed herself in lovely, placed flowers in her hair. Let sensuality slip off her shoulder, slipped strength upon her feet, looked down at this solid ground and finally stepped into herself.” – an excerpt from a poem by Jaime Kurowski “If you ask a fourth grade class what they have on repeat, they're like, ‘I'm stupid,’ or ‘I'm ugly.’ And the confidence camp that I did for them to have a place to not be alone in that, is everything to me.” – Jaime Kurowski Jaime’s LinksWebsite Instagram Facebook Books & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeThe Make(Her) Collective The Make(Her) Collective Website For the Love of the Elephant in the Room: Grief on Your Terms with Sal & Im Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re back with another episode in our For the Love of Favorite Pastimes series, and this week, we’re talking about the great outdoors. And in case you think this topic is just for those of you who find their greatest joy loading up piles of gear to go hiking for 20 miles every weekend, or for all the rabid runners, cyclists, swimmers, campers, and the rest of you that make the other half of us real, real tired––there’s something for all of us who may like being outside, even those who aren’t necessarily the outdoorsy type. Maybe your jam is barbecuing outside with friends, or sitting on your porch swing à la Jen Hatmaker. At the end of the day ,we can all agree (and science proves) that spending time in nature makes a person happier. And that’s the message this week’s guest is taking to the masses. Ben Steele is the Chief Customer Officer at REI - the nation’s largest consumer co-op for the outdoor community. Ben didn’t grow up with an innate love for nature, even though it was a part of his family’s life in Idaho. It wasn’t until he found his own outdoor personality as an adult that he truly appreciated the benefits of spending time outside (and surprise– it doesn’t have to involve driving miles away from home or having oodles of gear). * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Rothy’s | Get $20 off your first purchase at rothys.com/forthelove. KiwiCo | Get 30% off your first month plus free shipping on any crate line at kiwico.com using code FORTHELOVE. Betterhelp | Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/forthelove and get 10% off your first month. Thought-Provoking Quotes “There is science that says when folks have access to green spaces, have access to clean air, have access to time outside, you're healthier as an individual and at a societal level.” – Ben Steele “The only part of your day you truly control is what time you get up. So I get up early to get my time outdoors every day on the weekdays. And there's definitely days I'd rather stay in bed, but if I put it off for the end of the day, there's always something that comes up.” – Ben Steele “The outside is not an equally safe space for everybody. It's certainly true for women. It's certainly true for people of color. It's certainly true for even different identity groups. And so we've got to be honest about everything from racist naming of outdoor places, to a legacy of stolen land, to the reality that, depending on who I am, I may not feel that comfortable outside or around other people.” – Ben Steele “Relatively early in COVID [REI] had built a beautiful new headquarters and we sold it. We made the decision that we'd rather have these dollars working for our employees, working for our customers, working for our business. So we've been in a virtual environment with a couple of satellite offices for the last few years. And that was a big change for our headquarters. We're trying to recognize, ‘wow, my days at home are really efficient and really effective and productive. My days in the office are really connected.’ Both of those things matter.” - Ben Steele on achieving work life balance. “I think for somebody who says I'm not an outdoors person, I'm not outdoorsy. I think what I'd ask is what they like to do outside? And it might be a barbecue in the backyard with their family. They love to sit on the front porch and watch the world go by. They love to watch a sunset or they love birds. Whatever you like, find a way to pursue that.” – Ben Steele Books & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeREI Co-Op REI Gear Trade-In Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Calling all book nerds! Are you looking for a place where your book-loving heart can flourish? Join us at jenhatmakerbookclub.com, and become one of our sisters in nerdiness. For April 2022, Jen and the club read Sarah Penner’s The Lost Apothecary. Sarah began writing seriously back in 2015 after attending a lecture by one of our favorite authors–Elizabeth Gilbert. Soon after that moment, Sarah enrolled in her first creative writing class, and y’all, how lucky are we that she did. Her book, The Lost Apothecary, was an instant success. It debuted at #7 on the New York Times bestseller list, and has been translated into over 40 languages. Based on a real-life mudlarking discovery (and yes, she explains what that is), Sarah takes us back in time to see how one woman created space for women everywhere to do what they needed to do. So, we are more than thrilled to bring this conversation to you all with the wonderful and talented Sarah Penner. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Stamps.com | Start your trial today using promo code FORTHELOVE at stamps.com. Thought-Provoking Quotes “I don't think Nella is a hero or a villain. I think she's somewhere in the middle. And that's how all of us are really, none of us are heroes. None of us are villains. We're all somewhere in the middle.” – Sarah Penner “Sometimes we can meet someone and just form an instant friendship, sisterhood, connection, whatever you want to call it. And those can be the people that are most impactful in our lives. We don't need to only rely on these friends that we've had our whole lives. Sometimes the people that we need the most are just right there in the near vicinity.” – Sarah Penner "Betrayal is part of the human experience. And one of the most enjoyable things about writing this book was I was able to compare and contrast how things were different with 200 years between them. And one of the main things that was the same is how we are all hurt by people that we love. And 200 years from now, nothing will have changed." – Sarah Penner Sarah’s LinksWebsite Instagram Twitter Books & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeI Capture the Castle - Dodie Smith Bloomsbury Girls - Natalie Jenner Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What’s your favorite pastime (go with us here, we know that lots of us don’t even know the concept of having time for a pastime). Imagine being able to really spend time in your garden, instead of just hoping it will rain or the rabbits don’t eat your bounty. Think about being able to carve out some time to write–really giving some thought and intention to your journal or that spark of a story you’ve been thinking about for awhile. Taking time for what matters to us, aside from doing the things we need to (and yes, that matters to) is like nurturing our soul–it helps us become fuller versions of ourselves, and in the end, those respites make us better at our “real” jobs/routine/duties. That’s why this series is coming in hot–to help us make that step in allowing that outside passion to become a part of our weekly schedule. For the Love of Favorite Pastimes delves into how to identify the things that spark joy and passion in our days, and give ourselves space for them–no matter how small that space may be. And to kick this whole series off, we are thrilled to welcome friends of the show and Jen, Amie and Jolie of the Junk Gypsies. Now, we know you all know who these ladies are and we can’t believe it’s taken so long to get them on the show. But, now that we have them, we will be talking to them about their side passion (and how that turned into a full time business), how they pursued it with nothing more than a pick-up truck and a dream, and how their love for other people’s junk turned into a treasured way of life. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Chime | Get started today at chime.com/forthelove. Pair | Get glasses as unique as you are, starting at just $60 at paireyewear.com/forthelove to get 15% off your pfirst urchase. Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Join our sisterhood in nerdiness today at jenhatmakerbookclub.com Thought-Provoking Quotes "Between college and retirement, there's a mindset that if you don't really like it, you'll just work until retirement anyway. And we were like 'No, we don't want that,' and money was never the most important thing. It was always about quality of life." - Amie Sikes “We don't have a plan of what's going to happen next year. But we stay open-minded and we don't stay too rigid as we try to bend and flow and be open to opportunities. But we've said no to some that we probably should have said yes to, and yes to some we probably should have said no to.” - Jolie Sikes “We started doing dressers and side tables and eventually working our own aesthetic into it. So all of a sudden, it's becoming not just a booth where you buy furniture, but your customers are buying into our lifestyle.” - Amie Sikes “The way we dress, the way we decorate, it's a reflection of you so why would it be boring? You're not boring. So if your home is a reflection of you and your adventures and personality, why would you want everything the same color?” - Jolie Sikes Junk Gypsies LinksWebsite Facebook Instagram Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re wrapping up our Faith Shakers series this week, and we hope you’ve found it as eye-opening and enlightening as we have to see what people of faith in non-traditional spaces have been doing to make the world a better, more thoughtful place. This episode takes us to yet another unique space where faith and art are being combined to great effect--and it’s through poetry. In case you’re having flashbacks to Shakespearean sonnets you had to study in high school, fear not. We’re going beyond poetry to recognize the beauty in the lyrics we love from our favorite songs, to the way thoughts are constructed by deep thinkers like modern poet Maya Angelou. Language, words, and poetry have always been a tool deeply embedded inside any sort of faith search. So this week, we welcome a poet who also happens to be a theologian, and he's going to walk us through the powerful ways that poetry can bring healing, hope, and reconciliation, Pádraig Ó Tuama is a poet and theologian whose work centers around language, power, conflict, politics, and religion. For several years, he was the leader of Corrymeela Community—Ireland's oldest organization focused on religious reconciliation. He’s also the in-house theologian for the NPR show On Being, with Krista Tippet. Pádraig focuses on conflict resolution who dedicates his life to creating safe spaces for all people within the religious realm. He shows us all that communication, understanding, and landing in the gray space is the way forward and that we can all find our faith space, no matter who we are or where we come from. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Betterhelp | Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove OSEA | Get 10% off your first order using promo code FORTHELOVE at oseamalibu.com Thistle Farms | Get 15% off at thistlefarms.org using promo code FORTHELOVE Thought-Provoking Quotes "Conflict can be the place for brilliant friendships to thrive, and experience electricity for themselves. So sometimes you want to amplify conflict because it's really fruitful, energetic, and creative. But when it gets violent, or destructive, or fruitless, then it needs to be resolved." – Padraig O Tuama “I have no interest in whether somebody does or doesn't believe in God. I have no interest in whether we agree. That doesn't interest me at all. I hope we don't, I don't agree with myself, so I don't really agree with anybody else.” – Padraig O Tuama "I have a deep interest in wondering, 'do the words we use help us make some kind of sense of the world?' And when there's no sense to be made, do the words we use help give our grief voice?" – Padraig O Tuama “So much of the work of peace can be undone by the peace field being partitioned, and segregated, and fighting amongst itself.” – Padraig O Tuama “I'm uninterested in neutrality. I am interested in fairness and trustability.” – Padraig O Tuama "If you were to gather all the authors of the bible, and put them in a field, I think they would hate each other at times. They would not agree with each other on this word of God, or the question of God. And as a result, I thought, ‘Oh my God, there's room for me.’" – Padraig O Tuama Padraig’s LinksWebsite Facebook Instagram Twitter Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In the past, questioning the spiritual majority was unacceptable. Not only were people of faith expected to fall into line and just accept what was laid out by church leaders, but they were also expected to carry those beliefs throughout their entire lives–even when those tenets no longer aligned with their own values. And if they dropped them? Well, then they likely got dropped by their faith institutions. Fortunately for us all, there have been some quiet trail blazers who have been pushing at the edges of those institutions, asking hard questions, and paving the way for so many of us to shift and develop and grow our faith into living, breathing entities that enhance life–instead of being burdensome. One of those trailblazers joins us this week—the creator and host of the On Being radio show (and podcast) on NPR–Krista Tippet. Krista, like so many of us, grew up entrenched in the church–going three times a week, including Wednesday night suppers (we never turn down a potluck here) and it was her family’s main social life and community. Since beginning her career as a journalist Krista began to see that whenever religion was discussed in public, in the news or on public radio, it had the effect of shutting people's imaginations down. She wanted to show people that you could talk about it, and we could speak about the part of ourselves that we’re referring to when we use the words “religious or spiritual” in a way that allowed for questions and differing opinions. Now, 20 years and hundreds of fascinating interviews later, she has changed the way we talk about faith publicly and allowed space for it to be full of inquisitiveness and beautiful mystery–enabling so many to find a faith that feels like home to them. You’ll want to be sure to listen all the way to the end where Krista reveals the surprising reason she started her show, On Being, and the touching situation that is saving her life right now. Thank you to our sponsors! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “How we do school, how we do medicine, how we do law, how we do politics, how we do church, how we've done religion. They don't make sense for who we are becoming and what we're learning, and how we live, and the way our technologies have upended things.” – Krista Tippett "I have developed this absolute delight in mystery, and I also believe mystery is orthodoxy right? We are told there are things we will not understand in this lifetime. And standing before that with reverence and humility is part of being devout. For me, this all works together now and it feels like an adventure." – Krista Tippett “We live in this time when faith is evolving, and our traditions are evolving, and our experience of [faith] is evolving. We are evolving.” – Krista Tippett “Depression, it's so hard to describe, although so many people have been through it now. It's not just not having a sense of hope or joy, or what those might look like in the future. It's not being able to imagine how that ever felt or that it could possibly ever happen again. The bottom fell out of my understanding–all these things I had told myself about my family and the love that I knew growing up, I had to get honest about who I was and how I'd survived and how hard my survival techniques had been on me.” – Krista Tippett Krista’s Links: Website Twitter Books & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeWalter Brueggeman - Author, Speaker & Professor The Prophetic Imagination - On Being with Walter Bruggeman Thích Nhât Hanh - Vietnamese Buddhist & Activist Desmond Tutu - Bishop & Theologian Mary Oliver - Poet I Got Saved By the Beauty of the World - On Being with Mary Oliver Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

A dilemma that has gripped the hearts of traditional church leaders and their followers is the trend toward “non-affiliation–” those folks referred to as the “Nones” - who check “none” when asked if they affiliate with any religion or attend any church. Which begs the question–why? Why aren’t people attending church like they used to? And why are people outright leaving the church? Are people still seeking and finding spiritual community somewhere out there? Writer, speaker and co-founder of the Sacred Design Lab, Casper ter Kuile–a graduate of Harvard Divinity School who once identified as an atheist–has done some fascinating research on why people–millennials in particular–are leaving religious institutions in droves; what it is they are searching for, and the surpising places they are finding connection and hope. Caspar published a study titled How We Gather, which discusses this millennial exodus from the church, and how they are transitioning into a more spiritual journey instead of a religious one. For those of us who may have been embedded in traditional church culture for years and now find ourselves at a crossroads because of the politicization of religion, or perhaps because of untenable behavior that occurred behind closed doors at churches for years wondering if we can see ourselves in spiritual community ever again, This conversation with Jen and Caspar reveals the darker reasons for the detachment many have from religion and church, but also insight into a transformation on how we might practice a new “religion” that draws from the best of tradition and the new and inspiring ways people are congregating. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Rothy’s | Get $20 off your first purchase at rothys.com/forthelove. KiwiCo | Get 30% off your first month plus free shipping on any crate line using code FORTHELOVE at kiwico.com Betterhelp | Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove. ABLE | Sign up with promo code FORTHELOVE for a special offer that includes a 4-week trial, free postage, and a digital scale at stamps.com To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re back with another installment of our Faith Shakers series–talking to people who are doing work in the name of faith in “not so typical places,” using nontraditional ways to bring life and light to people's lives. One of the not so typical places people of faith are congregating more than ever is on social media. So many of us have a love/hate relationship with the medium. Sometimes it gives us the feeling of connection and community–especially during times where connection in person isn’t possible (remember the pandemic lockdown, everyone?). Other times, it can be a source of stress, a place where we’re constantly comparing ourselves to others, an alternate reality of only our “best selves” shown to the world through carefully curated content. Religion, faith and spirituality have their place on social media, and with emerging generations–millennials, Gen X’ers–many have never known life without it. But how do we navigate that quality of instant gratification that social media so readily supplies and find true connection and community that will challenge us, instruct us, and maybe even pastor us in the digital space? This week’s guest has done a lot of work looking at and studying digital communication spaces, and she is here to pass on what she has found so that we can better know the power of digital communication and make social connections that are positive, productive and beneficial. Heather Thompson Day is the host of Viral Jesus, a podcast that discusses these very things. She’s also an associate professor of communication at Andrews University and she’s intent on serving students and women in navigating the digital space toward the best possible end–good self image, finding conviction and even handling disagreements. This isn’t your grandma’s Sunday school class y’all–Heather gives us the tools to find a whole different way of experiencing our faith through our social channels. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Chime | Sign up today at chime.com/forthelove to start your trial today. Noom Mood | Sign up for your trial at noom.com/ftl. Tiff’s Treats Book | Get a $25 credit for Tiff's Treats with the purchase of their new book, It's Not Just Cookies, at cookiedelivery.com/jen. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re not always comfortable with people who push us past our comfort zones, who ask hard questions, who bring us a different perspective, a different angle–but we get so much from there. As we continue our Faith Shakers series, we’re talking to people who challenge unjust systems and are doing dynamic things in faith spaces and how those things are positively impacting the world. This week’s discussion takes place at a location that many would consider to be a hotbed of divisiveness–where many believe it hard to show love; the center of our political world–Washington D.C. This particular location is important because it's representative of our public discourse, the direction of our country's legislation, policy, and rhetoric. As we explore this highly emotional and volatile topic, we have a guest who has been standing on the frontlines and helps us take it apart compassionately. Lisa Schutlz is the chief of staff for the United States Senate chaplain, Barry Black. For 15 years, she’s been directing all of Chaplain Black's programs and outreach to all senators, their families, and any Senate staff. Jen and Lisa really get into what faith looks like in Washington DC right now. There's some hope baked into this conversation, and Lisa’s very unique perspective on faith in our highly charged political world gives us insight on how we can “brave the wilderness” in this political divisiveness to build bridges that might bring us together in love. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! BetterHelp | Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove. OSEA | Head to oseamalibu.com and get 10% off your first order using promo code FORTHELOVE. Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Head to jenhatmakerbookclub.comtoday to join our sisterhood in nerdiness. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re back with a fourth episode in this powerful series; For the Love of Faith Shakers. As many of us who might have come from a Western evangelical Christian community, we were presented a God that has a strong patriarchal presence. As we dig into the history of that, we learn that this image has been crafted, held together and governed by men, as those in power tend to shape the deities as they want to see them. However, history–the same written and oral history that gives us the basis for the Bible–tells us that Jesus likely wasn’t caucasian with blue eyes as we often see him depicted, but that he was Jewish, born and raised in the middle east and more than likely, was a person of color. But the image of white Jesus took root, as well as God as a white man, his father, also a man, emerging from The clouds in a fury–ruling with an iron fist. This generally serves one group of people in one gender, but has been so painful and difficult for black and brown and female and LGBTQ+ communities to see themselves in their creator; and to feel safe with this God, to feel cherished, to feel protected, to feel included. And so to give us some insight toward moving beyond this narrow, potentially abusive and oppressive view of God, we're talking with Dr. Christena Cleveland. Dr. Cleveland is a social psychologist, an author and activist who grew up in white evangelical spaces and was a popular speaker and influencer in that world for many years. As a researcher and former professor of Divinity at Duke University, she's done some amazing study around the patriarchal forces in Christianity and other religions, which led to some dismantling of this practice of silencing the feminine side of God's intimate presence in our life. It wasn’t until she looked at her own history of being “othered” by the white leaders in her religious background that she began to understand the tension she felt about her relationship to God as a black woman. This led to a journey of figuring out who God was to her and how we all–no matter our gender or our color–can find ourselves in the Divine. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Cavatica | Head to cavatica.co and fill out the "Let's Talk" form using code FORTHELOVE to get $100 off your site ABLE | Head to livefashionable.com and save 15% sitewide using code JEN. MeCourse | Register now at mecourse.org and use the code FORTHELOVE to save $10. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Through our entire Faith Shakers series, we’ve been finding the places where faith is vibrant and alive–both outside the church and inside it–and who has been creating safe spaces for faith to be expressed; no matter where you fall on the religious spectrum. For centuries, art has been an integral part of the religious tradition. Some of the most breathtaking art was commissioned by leaders of the church and still adorns the walls, architecture, windows and gardens in some of the most famous religious landmarks all over the world. However, over the last century, the tie to art and religion seems to be tenuous. And those creatives who seek to express their faith or their relationship to God through art don’t always have a conduit to do so in religious spaces. But, like the faith shakers they are, people who connect to God through art are still doing their thing wherever they can–and reconnecting others to God in the process. That’s the story of our guest today– an artist who is actively helping build that connective tissue between art, God and people–the spectacularly talented Morgan Harper Nichols. Morgan is a visual artist and poet who shares stories of grief, anger and solace who found her place of expression, surprisingly, on Instagram (where now nearly 2M followers are tuned in to her artistic offerings). Morgan’s experience in the Christian faith began with roots in a church that was planted by former American slaves and their descendants. It was committed to community and ensuring all voices were heard and was a guide for how she began sharing her work with the world. Morgan recognizes that the word “God” alone has so much baggage for a lot of people because it's been weaponized against them, and she wants to show those traumatized souls that you can actually feel eternal love and the presence of God, and it doesn’t have to be in a church, and it can look warm and welcoming and different than how it may have been presented in the past. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Rothy’s | Get $20 off your first purchase at rothys.com/forthelove. KiwiCo. | Get 30% off your first month plus free shipping on any crate line at kiwico.com using promo code FORTHELOVE. Betterhelp | Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Calling all book nerds! Are you looking for a place where your book-loving heart can flourish? Join us at jenhatmakerbookclub.com, and become one of our sisters in nerdiness. For February 2022, Jen and the club read Brit Bennett’s The Vanishing Half. Brit is a novelist and essayist that has been featured in The New York Times, The New Yorker, The Paris Review, and Jezebel. Her first novel, The Mothers, was a finalist for both the NBCC John Leonard First Novel Prize and the Robert W. Bingham Prize for Debut Fiction. And that brings us to this month’s book, The Vanishing Half. It was an instant New York Times bestseller and took the literary world by storm. It was named one of the top books of 2020, and no big deal, landed on the short list of Barack Obama’s favorite books. It is a story filled with self-growth, familial pain, generational divisions, and more. So join Jen this week as she chats all about The Vanishing Half and its impact with Brit Bennett. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! ABLE | Get 15% off sitewide using code JEN at livefashionable.com To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re back with more of our Faith Shakers series–with another person of faith who’s inhabiting something different than what we normally expect or see in faith spaces. When it comes to better understanding the church and how faith exists outside its walls, we must take into consideration voices that haven’t been largely represented in many church traditions. Communities of color were often not considered in the long history of liturgy in the church–and if you’re not familiar with what liturgy is, the technical definition is the “ritual or script for various forms of public worship in churches.” And those scripts weren’t scripts and rituals didn’t take into account the Black experience. That’s where our guest today comes in. Cole Arthur Riley is an author and the creator behind the uber popular Black Liturgies, which has blown up on Instagram over the last couple of years. Cole daily shares the poems and prayers she has created that invite Black dignity, lament, rage, justice, and rest. She and Jen talk about how hard it can be to go against the grain in spaces of faith, and the power of trading acceptance for inner stability. As Cole says, “when you have that inner stability of heart, it gives you courage to step away and say ‘I trust that I am going to find belonging elsewhere.’” * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Chime | Sign up today at chime.com/forthelove. Stamps.com | Sign up with promo code FORTHELOVE today at stamps.com for a 4-week trial. Noom Mood | Sign up for your trial at noom.com/FTL today. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Happy unscheduled podcast goodness day to you all—we’ve got an amazing bonus episode dropping in just for you! This week we are delighted to welcome author Tara Westover to the show. Her book Educated is on the tip- top of our list for “must-read” books (and was on the New York Times Bestseller list for over 135 weeks in addition to being applauded and celebrated by the New Yorker, O, The Oprah Magazine, and the Obamas. Tara paints a riveting picture of how she grew up in a strict religious survivalist family in the mountains of Idaho, where she didn’t get a birth certificate until she was nine, had no medical records, and didn’t attend school. She tells us what it was like to live in that environment and what compelled her, at 17, to seek education as a means of escape. In 10 years time, Tara earned a PhD in intellectual history and political thought from Cambridge, despite no schooling up to that point. Tara shares how she’s dealing with the aftermath of her trauma and the impact her departure had on her family. As she celebrates the release of Educated in paperback this year, Tara and Jen have a lively discussion about faith, family and therapy––and the transformative power of education. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Join the sisterhood in nerdiness today at jenhatmakerbookclub.com! Me Course | Register now at mecourse.org using code FORTHELOVE for $10 off. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s an origin story we’ve heard time and time again; a young person trying to figure out who they are as they grow up—in the context of their families, their religious beliefs, and their sexuality. And when all of those areas conflate, there can be fallout and damage—especially when they discover how and who they choose to love isn’t embraced by their faith or family structures. Award winning journalist and writer Jonathan Merritt navigated this particular firestorm in his own life by pursuing a Masters in Divinity and Theology and becoming a journalist who asked hard hitting questions at the intersections of faith and culture. But it would take years for him to sort out who he himself was in the midst of it. Growing up in the family of an evangelical mega-pastor, Jonathan was taught that in regards to gay people, Christians were called to “love the sinner, but hate the sin.” Jonathan didn’t see a lot of love with this practice, just a lot of hate. And it kept him from being open to who he himself might be—a gay man. It took an event that shattered his life into pieces and caused his private process to become very public; which ultimately sent him down the road to really pursue his identity and recalibrate his relationship to his family, his faith, and his purpose. For the first time, he talks about this process, and shares a moment where he and Jen’s paths crossed in a significant way that would also blow up a few sacred cows in Jen’s life and introduced her to an early version of cancel culture, circa 2016. Welcome all, to this first, powerful episode in our Faith Shakers series. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Betterhelp | Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove. Catalina Crunch | Head to catalinacrunch.com/forthelove for 15% off your first order plus free shipping. Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Join the sisterhood in nerdiness today at jenhatmakerbookclub.com! To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As we wrap up our Elephant in the Room series, there will be no awkward topics left in our wake. And this week, we’re putting the nail in that coffin (so to speak) and we’re talking about–yes, you guessed it– Death. It’s really hard to think about how to plan for your death when you’re too busy living, not to mention that we don’t even want to really contemplate our demise, but alas, none of us will escape it. And we’ve all heard the horror stories of people who leave this earth with no will or last testament, families put under duress because they don’t know how to manage it all, or the provider of the family passes suddenly, and in an instant, there is no income, no insurance and perhaps unexpected expenses for hospital stays and/or funerals. As stark as it seems, it doesn’t have to be. Planning well for the life that you’ve built so that legacy is created for those who are left behind is something we all can bravely face. And to help us through it is someone who has taken this hard topic and turned it on its face so that it’s actually approachable and less scary to contemplate–we’ve got Abby Schneiderman, the founder of Everplans–to hold our hands through the process. Abby has the answers to the questions we need to take care of In Case You Get Hit By A Bus (also the title of her book). Her company Everplans focuses on providing resources to people as they think about what needs to be done to put the right things into place once we pass on. Some of it is just practical stuff we might not be thinking about—like a list of passwords so getting into accounts doesn’t take an act of congress, developing a way to keep track of medical forms, legal files, and so much more. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Thistle Farms | Head to thistlefarms.org to get 15% off using code FORTHELOVE. BYJU | Sign up for your first class free today at byjus.com/podcast. Me Course | Register now at mecourse.org using code FORTHELOVE for $10 off. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Calling all book nerds! Are you looking for a place where your book-loving heart can flourish? Join us at jenhatmakerbookclub.com, and become one of our sisters in nerdiness. For January 2022, Jen and the club read Christie Tate’s Group. Christie is a well-known writer and essayist that has written for amazing publications including The New York Times, The Washington Post, McSweeney’s, and more. Her first novel, Group, was published in 2020 and was named as one of Reese’s Book Club picks along with being a New York Times Bestseller. Group started many conversations about the power therapy offers and how finding your group allows healing and self-discovery. Join Jen and Christie this week as they talk about Christie’s writing process, the power of therapy, and why it’s so important to find the people that help you become whole again. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Me Course | Start learning today and get $10 off at mecourse.org using code FORTHELOVE. JHBC | Join our reading community at jenhatmakerbookclub.com. ABLE | Head to livefashionable.com to get 20% off using code 20JEN. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Get ready for some real and raw conversation with Jen and two of her most trusted friends about an experience they’ve all shared [which happens to be this week’s elephant in the room as well]. We’re talking about divorce. We’ve all heard the not-so-fun stat that at least half of all marriages in our country end up in divorce. No matter how it happens, who makes the choice, or however long the marriage lasted—it’s traumatizing. Like any elephant in the room, there’s a sense of failure, a sense of shame that keeps the pain and loneliness of a marriage that is on the rails shrouded in silence and solitude, and when the marriage finally crumbles––we’re not only grieving over own dreams and expectations dashed, but wondering how we’ll manage all our people’s disappointment and confusion over it all–including our children’s. And moving forward as a single person after being married has its own challenges as well. How do you tell people in the office your plus one has vacated the position? Who’s your emergency contact now? Do I keep the same last name? How do we even process it all–what we were taught about marriage to begin with, why we stayed when our boundaries were pushed to their limits, and who we can trust as we put our lives back together again? Jen shares more than she ever has before about her own divorce with her good friends Kristen Howerton and Jamie Wright who walked with her through every step of the process. They discuss the trajectory of their marriages, how they each grappled with choosing divorce, and what they are learning in “real time” in the aftermath. And here’s the good news–they all agree that as devastating as it can be, our friends can help us remember who we are in all of it; new dreams can be made, old dreams can change and hope and healing is possible. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Rothy’s | New customers get $20 off your first purchase at rothys.com/forthelove. Kiwi Co | Get 50% off your first month plus free shipping at kiwico.com using promo code FORTHELOVE. Betterhelp | Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In the tail-end of this series, we really acknowledge some of the bigger elephants in the room we all face each and every day. And this week’s elephant is a big one that likely we’ve all experienced first hand or with those we love. Mental health disorders have been around for as long as we’ve been walking the planet, but bringing them out of the dark has been a fairly recent phenomenon. Even as recently as 3 or 4 decades ago, depression and anxiety were rarely diagnosed as clinical disorders, and in previous generations, people with more profound issues that are now treatable were hidden away from society by their families or locked up in institutions. And while there have been huge strides made in the past or so regarding treatment of now commonly diagnosed mental health issues such as anxiety and depression, there is still reticence to recognize its impact and shame taken on by those who deal with it. The time has come to bring these issues out of the dark as we see the growing impact of unchecked mental illness and where it leads for those who don’t know where or how to get help. One of the people that’s leading the charge toward legitimizing mental health conditions in a bigger way is the founder of To Write Love On Her Arms, Jamie Tworkowski. Jamie founded TWLOHA after guiding a friend through her struggles with depression and suicidal thoughts. He saw the need for guidance in this space and created a world-renowned organization that offers resources and help to those who need it most. Jen and Jamie talk about the painful process of loving our people when they are hurting, how to give our own selves grace when we struggle, and why mental health needs to be treated as seriously as physical health. Content Warning: This episode addresses hard topics including anxiety, depression and suicidal ideation, so it may not be suitable for young listeners or individuals on the path to healing. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Chime | Get started today at chime.com/forthelove. ThirdLove | Get 20% off your first order at thirdlove.com/forthelove. Stamps.com | Use code FORTHELOVE to start your 4 week trial today at stamps.com To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices