For The Love With Jen Hatmaker Podcast

“If my faith cannot offer me something in the wilderness moments, it isn’t worth having,” says Rev. Naomi Washington-Leapheart. And as we explore the silver linings of this turbulent year, Rev. Naomi’s wisdom is just what we need as we turn our thoughts to how our faith has held us up, stretched our empathy, and asked us to hold suffering and joy with both hands. As Philadelphia’s Director of the Mayor’s Office of Faith-Based and Interfaith Affairs, Rev. Naomi has spent the year trying to bring faith communities together with the goal of healing a hurting city. And for those who may not be able to see a way forward, Rev. Naomi reminds us that God is still right there, never leaving us alone. Because as she says, “we are always becoming,” meaning that even through the impossible, good can be brought out of any story—including the ones we never asked for. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Rothy’s | Check out all the amazing shoes—and bags!—available right now at https://rothys.com/forthelove Thistle Farms | Find beautiful self-care gifts that are giving back! Use code FORTHELOVE to get 15% off the whole shop at www.thistlefarms.org Ancestry | Don’t miss special holiday pricing on truly meaningful gifts during the Holiday Sale! Head to ancestry.com/forthelove BetterHelp | Take care of your mental health through the holidays—get 10% off your first month at http://betterhelp.com/forthelove **GIFT GUIDE ALERT** Making your holiday gift list and checking it twice? Need more ideas for unique, useful, or doing-good gifts? Check out all the goodies on the 4th Annual Edition of Jen’s Favorite Things Holiday Gift Guide! ➤ https://bit.ly/JensFavoriteThings2020 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sneak peek alert! Are you a bookie? Do you love reading and talking about what you’re reading? Then the Jen Hatmaker Book Club is where you belong. Want to join us? Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com, become one of the squad. This month, we read the fiercely feminine and delightful novel The Bookish Life of Nina Hill by the oh-so-talented Abbi Waxman. Abbi gives us a peek into her pleasurable work that’s truly the happy ending we need right now, because just like Nina, books are our escape. Abbi dives into what it was like to craft a character with ADHD and anxiety, and how she broke down that stigma, showing how preserving your mental health goes hand and hand with living a regular life. Abbi dives into what family issues can look like realistically, how the small moments can make the most spectacular relationship, and how dominating at trivia can give you a minute of triumph when you need it. *** Join the Jen Hatmaker Book Club sisterhood today! https://jenhatmakerbookclub.com *** Thank you to our sponsors! BetterHelp | Take charge of your mental health—get 10% off your first month at http://betterhelp.com/forthelove Duke Cannon | Find the perfect gifts for the men in your life—check out Duke Cannon’s grooming gift sets for only $20 each at Target! Coupons.com | Get groceries and get paid! Download the coupons.com app for FREE in the Apple app store or Google Play. Mrs. Fields | Get 20% off mouthwatering holiday sweets with code FORTHELOVE at https://www.mrsfields.com To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Joy and pain aren’t mutually exclusive; they mingle together in our stories every single day. That’s probably never been more true than in 2020. In these moments, we reach for guides who have traveled through some dark moments and come out the other side, and we couldn’t have a better teacher than writer, speaker, and self-proclaimed joyologist Dawn Barton. Pain and loss have been familiar companions to Dawn for a long time. She’s lost a baby daughter, and a sister to cancer. She’s suffered through sexual assault and walked her mother through recovery from an aneurysm, and her husband through alcohol addiction. Dawn has seen suffering, but she’s also realized that even in the middle of pain, you can experience full-fledged joy. Moments of hurt create opportunities for others to show up for us, and allow us to experience love in ways beyond what we ever thought possible (and sometimes scary times lead to hilarious ones, as Dawn found during her misadventures with a prosthetic breast named Lucky). Ultimately, our lives come full circle when we get to help someone else through their painful moments the way that others once helped us. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! KiwiCo | Go to https://kiwico.com, and use code FORTHELOVE to get 50% off your first month of project crates, plus FREE shipping! Feetures | Head to http://feetures.com/, and use code FORTHELOVE to get $10 off your first pair of cozy Feetures socks. Honey | Sign up for free at https://joinhoney.com/FORTHELOVE, and add gifts on your Droplist for a chance to win some cash! Duke Cannon | Find the perfect gifts for the men in your life—check out Duke Cannon’s grooming gift sets for only $20 each at Target! **GIFT GUIDE ALERT** Making your holiday gift list and checking it twice? Need more ideas for unique, useful, or doing-good gifts? Check out all the goodies on the 4th Annual Edition of Jen’s Favorite Things Holiday Gift Guide! ➤ https://bit.ly/JensFavoriteThings2020 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

2020 has shaken up so many of our beliefs. What’s normal? What’s safe? What does it look like for our families and our communities to thrive? These are life-changing questions, and today’s guest is someone who has been searching for the answers to these very questions for nearly two decades. Diana Oestreich was an American soldier in Iraq who received orders to keep her convoy rolling at all costs, even if children crossed her path. And in that gut-wrenching moment, Diana decided she couldn’t follow those orders, and she would fight for peace with sacrifice instead of bullets. Today Diana “wages peace” with love and justice alongside the organization Preemptive Love, and she and Jen talk about who the true heroes are, and how everything changes in our world when we choose to build bridges instead of walls. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! FabFitFun | Order your Winter box today! Use coupon code FTL for $10 off your first box at www.fabfitfun.com #fabfitfunpartner BetterHelp | Take care of your mental health this holiday season—get 10% off your first month at http://betterhelp.com/forthelove Stamps.com | Need to send out those Christmas cards? Get a 4-week trial, plus FREE postage and a digital scale at https://stamps.com with code FORTHELOVE Ancestry | So don’t miss special holiday pricing on truly meaningful gifts during the Holiday Sale! Head to ancestry.com/forthelove **GIFT GUIDE ALERT** Making your holiday gift list and checking it twice? Need more ideas for unique, useful, or doing-good gifts? Check out all the goodies on the 4th Annual Edition of Jen’s Favorite Things Holiday Gift Guide! ➤ https://bit.ly/JensFavoriteThings2020 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Do you know who has a PhD in Small Wins? We do, because this week on the show we have The Lazy Genius, AKA the brilliant and delightful Kendra Adachi! Kendra is the woman who brought the Tim Riggins Salad and Change Your Life Chicken to the internet, and she is about to change our lives far beyond the fridge (though fun fact: that chicken is delicious). Kendra’s going to give us a treasure trove of pro tips, like the beauty of 17-minute naps and the stress-reducing way to clean up our kitchens (hint: zones, people—it’s all about the zones!). As a recovering perfectionist, Kendra’s learned how to strike the middle ground between “It has to be perfect!” and “Meh, I don’t care anymore.” She shows us how to care about what matters and let the rest go, because let’s be real: there’s just too much for us to care about everything. Plus, for all the Enneagram 1s and Type-As out there, Kendra reminds us that even if our plans are upended, it doesn’t mean our plans were wrong—it just means that life happened, and we’ll be okay. And stay till the end for Jen and Kendra’s Hamilton love fest as they look around, look around at how lucky we are to be alive right now in a world with Lin Manuel-Miranda and Disney+! * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Solitaire Grand Harvest | Download the app for FREE in the Apple App Store, Google Play, & Amazon Framebridge | Frame your photos and send the perfect gift! Get 15% off your first order at www.framebridge.com with code FORTHELOVE Stamps.com | Skip the post office lines this holiday season! Get a 4-week trial, plus FREE postage and a digital scale at https://stamps.com with code FORTHELOVE Ancestry | Don’t miss special holiday pricing on truly meaningful gifts during the Holiday Sale at Ancestry! Head to ancestry.com/forthelove **GIFT GUIDE ALERT** Making your holiday gift list and checking it twice? Need more ideas for unique, useful, or doing-good gifts? Check out all the goodies on the 4th Annual Edition of Jen’s Favorite Things Holiday Gift Guide! ➤ https://bit.ly/JensFavoriteThings2020 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s the most wonderful time of the year—gift guide time! We're going to go ahead and give 2020 the No, Thank You Award, but we can still try to make the holidays merry and bright. And to help you do that, we bring you the 4th installment of Jen’s Favorite Things! Every year, we shine a spotlight on brands we love that also give back, so we do the most good with the dollars we're already going to spend (and PS: so many of these companies are women-owned!). So grab a cup of cocoa while Jen and her sisters, Lindsay and Cortney, share 12 incredible companies with amazing products—everything from coffee and candles to comfy robes and socks and Jen’s signature feather earrings. Plus, each brand has a special offer just for you, so you can stock up on great gifts and also *save some cash.* Look alive, campers, it’s time to do some Christmas shopping! Psst: We’ve taken notes so you don’t have to! Head over to jenhatmaker.com/podcast for a one-stop shop of all the companies, products, and offers mentioned on the show. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On the road to finding small wins, it’s helpful to watch for the “green lights” in our lives—those signals that indicate we can move forward when we see them—but also recognize and appreciate the yellows and reds that slow us down so we can take a second to absorb what life is teaching us. Academy Award-winning actor, minister of culture, and self-proclaimed pickle expert Matthew McConaughey is a man who’s had a few green lights show up over the course of his career (along with a few reds and yellows, he admits). He shares about it all in his new book, Greenlights, where he describes (in an oh-so-McConaughey way) his “sights and seens, felts and figured-outs, cools and shamefuls.” Matthew points out that green lights illuminate our way through the choices we make, and challenge us to ask some bigger questions: Are you living in the present? Are you being kind? Are you enjoying both freedom and responsibility? Matthew gives us a sneak peek into his motivation for writing Greenlights, and tells us about important women in his life who shaped and supported him all along the way. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Noom |Check out how to stay on a healthy track at https://noom.com/forthelove BetterHelp | Take charge of your mental health—get 10% off your first month at http://betterhelp.com/forthelove KiwiCo | Go to https://kiwico.com, and use code FORTHELOVE to get 50% off your first month of project crates, plus FREE shipping! Stamps.com | Skip the post office lines this holiday season by visiting https://stamps.com, and get a 4-week trial PLUS free postage and a digital scale with code FORTHELOVE. **Gift Guide Alert!** Making your holiday gift list and checking it twice? Need more ideas for unique, useful, or doing-good gifts? Look for Jen’s super-special annual Gift Guide Episode, popping into your feed on Monday, November 16! To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Right now, we all need some small wins. And in our brand-new series called—wait for it—For the Love of Small Wins, we’re talking to thought leaders who remind us to look for the ways kindness and resilience has showed up in our lives this year. First up, author and life coach Valorie Burton knows all about something we each struggle with: guilt. She knows what it looks like, how it can disguise itself, and how ingrained it is in our daily lives. Valorie helps us identify the difference between authentic and false guilt, and walks us through the different types of guilt we experience, especially in 2020: mom/daughter/friend guilt, guilt for not doing more or better, guilt for not being involved enough in the causes happening around us. Valerie gives us the tools to begin to let go of guilt, so we can take the first step on our journey to appreciating the small wins of 2020 * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Rothy’s | Check out all the amazing shoes—and bags!—available right now at https://rothys.com/forthelove ThirdLove | Find your perfect-fitting bra, and get 10% off your first purchase at https://thirdlove.com/forthelove Feetures | Go to http://feetures.com/, and use code FORTHELOVE to get $10 off your first pair of Feetures **Gift Guide Alert!** Making your holiday gift list and checking it twice? Need more ideas for unique, useful, or doing-good gifts? Look for Jen’s super-special annual Gift Guide Episode, popping into your feed on Monday, November 16! To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Want a sneak peek into the book club of your dreams? Then allow us to present: the Jen Hatmaker Book Club! From time to time, we’ll drop in with what we’re reading in hopes you’ll join us at jenhatmakerbookclub.com—because we *know* you’ll love it. We had to bring this one out of the vault, because we are the biggest fans of NYT bestselling author—and now TV and podcast host—Kelly Corrigan! Kelly’s memoir Tell Me More was the first book we chose to read in the Jen Hatmaker Book Club back in June 2019, because Kelly has a knack for taking a magnifying glass to the phrases that create connection between us (like “I don’t know,” “I was wrong,” and “Good enough”) and showing us why they matter, all with her signature humor and warmth. If you’ve never met Kelly, get ready: you’re about to meet your new favorite. And while you’re at it, check out Kelly’s brand-new projects: a podcast called Kelly Corrigan’s Wonders and a new interview series on PBS called—wait for it—Tell Me More! * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Ancestry | Get your AncestryDNA kit and start your free trial at ancestry.com/forthelove Jen’s FREE Merch | Be free—check out the collection at jenhatmaker.com/shop Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Join our sisterhood today at jenhatmakerbookclub.com To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

To be Black in America means living at several different intersections. Writer and thinker Marcie Alvis-Walker joins For the Love Podcast to share the inspiration behind her beautiful, thought-provoking space called Black Coffee with White Friends. Marcie shares about her experience having to code switch as she grew up—she’d have to adapt her language, her likes and dislikes based on the group she was with—and what it’s like for her family to navigate the world being members of different races. Marcie leads us to think about what it means to “celebrate” holidays like 4th of July, Memorial Day, and Columbus Day when your skin isn’t white, and how siblings of different races can use their influence to help their Black siblings. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! BetterHelp | Take charge of your mental health—get 10% off your first month at http://betterhelp.com/forthelove Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Join the sisterhood at jenhatmakerbookclub.com FabFitFun | Use coupon code FTL for $10 off your first box at https://fabfitfun.com/ #fabfitfunpartner To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On this bonus episode of For the Love, we’re talking about a heartwarming new movie (based on a true story!) called “2 Hearts” with organ donor recipient and advocate Michael Kutcher. He’s a walking miracle shares his journey of receiving a heart transplant 29 years ago, and the profound ways the gift of organ donation not only gave him life—it impacted generations, as Michael is a proud father today. Michael and Jen talk about the beautiful parallels between Michael’s story and the “2 Hearts” movie, a true story of two couples who were never supposed to meet, but through love and generosity, they end up making waves in the world. * * * Thank you to our sponsor! Honey | Get online savings, simplified. Download Honey for FREE today at http://joinhoney.com/forthelove To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Stories come in many forms: in the reports we see in the news, the TV shows and movies that light up our screens, from books to toys and so many other places. New York Times bestselling author Brit Bennett is here to discuss the ways that Black stories are told and the ripple effects they have across American culture. She shares insight into her life as a young author and how she’s used her writing as a way to figure out the way she feels about different topics—like what it means to “perform race,” which she wrote about in her latest book called The Vanishing Half. Brit dives into the stories she’s looking to create in the world—ones that show the human experience of what it means to struggle and the ways we experience hope and joy and love. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Noom | Sign up for your trial at http://noom.com/forthelove ThirdLove | Find your perfect-fitting bra, and get 10% off your first purchase at https://thirdlove.com/forthelove Feetures |Go to http://feetures.com/, and use code FORTHELOVE to get $10 off your first pair of Feetures To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What does it mean to build the world in a way where every single person, no matter their color, gender, ability or religion has access to security and opportunity? That’s a question inventor and entrepreneur Jessica O. Matthews has spent much of her life asking. Jessica is the CEO of Uncharted Power, a company looking to build sustainable infrastructure in the world—which Jessica launched when she was just twenty-two years old! She shares the legacy of curiosity and hard work her parents passed onto her, and why having countless hmm moments leads to that one a-ha! moment. Jessica and Jen hash out the opportunities the world has left on the table of innovation and why Jessica’s place at several intersections—a Black woman who’s a dual US/Nigerian citizen—helps her recognize developments that are still possible for parts of the world that typically don’t receive investment. Because as Jessica says: “I have the ability to not see the world as it is but to see the world as it should be. That's something that would not have happened not only if I wasn't just Nigerian American, but if I wasn't a woman of color.” * * * Thank you to our sponsors! BetterHelp | Take charge of your mental health—get 10% off your first month at http://betterhelp.com/forthelove KiwiCo | Get 30% off your first month plus FREE shipping on any crate line at https://kiwico.com/forthelove “2 Hearts” movie | Mark your calendar—“2 Hearts” is in theaters only nationwide on October 16! https://2heartsthefilm.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Having access to learning is a portal to opportunity, a key to unlocking your dreams and leaving doors open for those who come after you. That’s what education has been for Dr. Monique Morris, an author, scholar, justice educator and die-hard Prince fan who, in sixth grade, found herself at a fork in the road. She got into a fight with a boy who’d provoked her. And instead of suspending her, expelling her, or arresting her and pushing her away, Dr. Morris’ teachers reconnected her to her learning community—a key moment in the life of a girl who’d been dealing with sexual abuse and violence in her home. This moment of restoration paved the path for Dr. Morris to go on to earn a doctorate in education. Others in Dr. Morris’ situation haven’t been as fortunate, and find their studies interrupted by disciplinary action and a descent down the slippery slope known commonly as the “school to prison pipeline,” where they are pushed out of the education experience and criminalized by administrators. Dr. Morris uses her own education and experience to advocate for Black and brown students, encouraging schools to look at themselves as places of healing and restoration, not punishment, so that more students of color can become the scholars they are meant to be. Because no person is “unrecoverable,” and the important“freedom work of education begins when teachers ultimately see themselves as healers. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Rothy’s | Check out all the amazing shoes and bags available right now at http://rothys.com/forthelove Jenni Kayne | Get 20 percent off your first order! Go to http://jennikayne.com/, enter code FORTHELOVE at checkout. “2 Hearts” film | Only in theaters October 16! https://2heartsthefilm.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Want a sneak peek into the book club of your dreams? Then allow us to present: the Jen Hatmaker Book Club! From time to time, we’ll drop in with what we’re reading in hopes you’ll join us at jenhatmakerbookclub.com—because we *know* you’ll love it. This month, we read the gorgeous bestselling novel The Storyteller’s Secret by lawyer-turned-writer Sejal Badani. Sejal gives us a behind the scenes look at what it was like to write a fiction story that’s deeply rooted in her own family history, and how examining the lives of her ancestors helped unravel her emotions about her own upbringing. What began as a way to break free from family secret-keeping became a way for Sejal to explain her heritage and history to her children. Writing Storyteller also became a method of healing, and Sejal shares how exposing the most vulnerable parts of who we are can help create a better world for someone else. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! BetterHelp | Take charge of your mental health—get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove Jen’s Fierce Mask | Get the cutest mask ever at jenhatmaker.com/shop Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Join our sisterhood today at jenhatmakerbookclub.com To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Cultivating a healthy mind is essential for our entire well-being. Psychologist and theologian Dr. Chanequa Walker-Barnes joins us For the Love of Black Lives series to help us unpack how the anxiety and trauma carried through generations of Black Americans affects the flourishing of communities of every stripe (and newsflash: the trauma we experience can be passed down through four generations after us). For so long, Black women have been praised as “strong,” and they absolutely are. But when we only view Black women as unshakeable “superwomen,” we take away their right to vulnerability, their right to care for themselves, and their right to be cared for by someone else. And instead, we hand them a standard that’s impossible to achieve—which, as anyone knows who’s tried to achieve something that can’t be attained, causes shame and depression. Dr. Chanequa describes the effects of living in a community where anxiety is normal for everyone. As she says, “I was never taught to think of what I had as anxiety, even though now I realize, on both sides of my family, there’s anxiety.” She explains why it’s vital for Black women and men to have access to Black mental healthcare providers, so clients can feel truly seen and heard, and receive the true care they need. And above all, Dr. Chanequa reminds us that every Black woman, child, and man is worthy of self-care. They are worthy to notice and treat their pain and anxiety, so they can flourish in wholeness. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! BetterHelp | Take charge of your mental health—get 10% off your first month at http://betterhelp.com/forthelove Laurel Springs | Register your child at laurelsprings.com/forthelove today and receive a waived registration fee Stamps.com | Start your 4-week trial, plus free postage and a digital scale without a long-term commitment! Go to stamps.com, enter FORTHELOVE To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Black culture is central to American culture—we simply don’t have America without having the Black experience, born of slavery and systemic racism and white supremacy, of physical and mental and emotional pain. But through generations, Black women and men have passed down stories given from their mothers and grandmothers. They’ve cooked and sang and danced and played the most beautiful music. They’ve wrote and dreamed and created. Black culture has inspired us for hundreds of years as it has woven its way into the tapestry of American life. And today, we’re going to talk about the richness of it all with Dr. Tanisha C. Ford, a cultural critic and professor of history at CUNY. Dr. Ford shares the artists and icons that shaped her world as a young Black woman growing up (everyone from her own mother and her leather jackets, to the music of Aretha Franklin and TLC, Roberta Flack and Mary J. Blige). Dr. Ford shows us how looking deeply at culture helps us see the threads of politics and society woven within. We learn why cultural appropriation is tied to systems of exploitation. We see why we need to shift our eyes away from history books that haven’t centered important Black pioneers like Anna Julia Cooper and Ida B. Wells, why everyone needs to read words from thinkers like James Baldwin and Audre Lorde. We see how Shirley Chisholm paved the way for Kamala Harris. We see the beauty and strength of artists like Nina Simone and Billie Holiday, and how they birth artists like Alicia Keys and Janelle Monáe. And through it all we see how new forms of technology have carried Black voices to new corners of the world for decades, planing the seeds for social media to blossom into a powerful force for the change that we’re seeing today. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Author School | Reserve your spot today at https://authorschool.com/jenhatmaker Noom | Sign up for your trial at http://noom.com/forthelove Jenni Kayne | Get 20% off your first order! Go to https://jennikayne.com, promo code FORTHELOVE FabFitFun | Use coupon code FTL for $10 off your first box at https://fabfitfun.com #fabfitfunpartner To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Though many of our country’s systems of care desperately need an overhaul, there’s one system in particular that could improve greatly to help Black Americans: healthcare. It might be unimaginable that we might get lesser care, for example, if we found ourselves in a medical emergency or were giving birth to our child. But Black women and men find themselves in these situations often, where healthcare professionals aren’t listening to their needs or taking time to understand their health concerns, and this sometimes leads to disastrous consequences—even death. These healthcare gaps are part of a feedback loop where many Black Americans find themselves. Many times, it starts with a huge imbalance in economic resources, which leads to a lack of access to healthy food, gyms, nutritional education, and as our guest today says, “places that are considered well.” Christina M. Rice is a wellness expert and chief experience officer of OMNoire, a social wellness community for Black women and women of color dedicated to living well. Christina shares about her own wellness experiences as a Black woman, and how finding yoga helped her realize the need for wellness spaces where Black women and women of color feel seen and welcome. Christina describes why it’s so important for everyone to prioritize the health of Black women and men. Tackling healthcare inequity may be daunting, but siblings everywhere must speak up and do our part to amplify voices of color so that Black bodies are allowed to flourish. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Author School | Reserve your spot today at https://authorschool.com/jenhatmaker BetterHelp | Take charge of your mental health—get 10% off your first month at http://betterhelp.com/forthelove Jen Hatmaker’s FIERCE Mask | Get yours right now at https://jenhatmaker.com/shop KiwiCo | Get 30% off your first month—plus FREE shipping on any crate line—at http://kiwico.com/forthelove To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

God created a beautiful world, filled with people who share love, creativity, friendship and hope in all kinds of ways. For thousands of years, some have tried to use religion to wield power and authority over people around the globe, claiming “their” way was the “right” way to gain access to God. That’s how the seeds of religious trauma are sown. And through generations, we’ve seen members of the white American Christan church push Black and brown people away from the center of the church’s stories in an attempt to gain control over those cultures. But as justice educator and equity consultant Alicia Crosby reminds us, we gain so much when we center stories that have been pushed to the margins, when we allow ourselves to be curious about ourselves and other cultures. Alicia shares her own history in the church as a Black queer woman, and how, after her “burn it all down” phase, she’s learned to embrace the beauty of who she is and how she chooses to express her faith in God’s love for her. Jen and Alicia dive into why it’s important to create protective spaces for affinity groups of all kinds (everything from parents, to race and cultural groups, to LGBTQ+ spaces), and why sitting down at the table is the most equalizing force in our universe. * * * Thank you to our episode sponsors! Author School | Reserve your spot today at authorschool.com/jenhatmaker Rothy’s | Check out all the amazing shoes and bags available right now at rothys.com/forthelove ThirdLove | Go to thirdlove.com/forthelove to find your perfect-fitting bra, and get 15% off your first purchase! Jen Hatmaker’s FIERCE Mask | Get yours right now at jenhatmaker.com/shop To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Want a sneak peek into the book club of your dreams? Then allow us to present: the Jen Hatmaker Book Club! From time to time, we’ll drop in with what we’re reading in hopes you’ll join us at jenhatmakerbookclub.com—because we *know* you’ll love it. This month's book has been an over-the-top experience for all of us. We read No Happy Endings by Nora McInerny, and it’s resonated from top to bottom in our community. Nora makes a living talking to people about life's hardest moments, and she speaks from experience. She lost her second baby, her father, and her young husband over the course of six weeks when she was 31 years old. Yet, she’s chosen to channel her grief into two bestselling memoirs and a stellar podcast called Terrible, Thanks for Asking. She’s a master storyteller who brings heart, transparency, and even levity to the most difficult and uncomfortable conversations that most of us spend our lives trying to avoid. And through it all, Nora’s a reliable, trustworthy guide as we journey along our own suffering and grief and loss. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! BetterHelp | Take charge of your mental health—get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove Stamps.com | Start your 4-week trial and get a 4-week trial, plus free postage and a digital scale without a long-term commitment! Go to stamps.com, enter FORTHELOVE. Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Join our sisterhood today at jenhatmakerbookclub.com To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As lawyer and activist Bryan Stevenson puts it, slavery never actually ended—it just evolved, and today it looks like mass incarceration. In the past fifty years, we’ve seen the prison population skyrocket from 200,000 in 1970 to 2.2 million in 2020. In fact, America holds just 5% of the world’s population but more than 25% of the world’s prisoners, where the Black population clock in five times the rate of inmates as the white population. It is imperative that our generation abolish the overcriminalization of Black women, children, and men. And today we’re learning a bit more from CeCe Jones-Davis on how to bring that world to fruition. She’s an activist, a worship leader, and a teacher of social gospel who’s made it her mission to expose the underbelly of the US criminal justice system as she fights for the freedom of a man she believes has been wrongfully convicted: Julius Jones. CeCe also shares the influences who showed her the way toward pursuing justice and life experiences that broke her heart and gave her a passion to advocate for others. CeCe reminds us that realigning the gears of the justice system is too big a task for one person to bear alone—but if we each pick up our small piece, it’s a load we can carry together. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Noom |Start your trial today at noom.com/forthelove Ancestry | Get your AncestryDNA kit and start your free trial at ancestry.com/fortheloveBetterHelp | Take charge of your mental health—get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today we open a new chapter of For the Love, where we’ll celebrate the beauty, wholeness, and dignity of Black Lives. At the same time, we’ll also explore the roots of the recent growing advocacy and racial reckoning with experts who will guide us through different facets of what it’s like to be Black in America—in education, health, culture, the church. We’ll unpack how the Black experience differs from the white experience, with true understanding of the gaps in these collective experiences becoming the catalyst for necessary change. Leading off this series is Alencia Johnson, who is the chief impact officer and founder of 1063 West Broad, a company focusing on social impact, brand engagement, and communication strategy (you may remember Alencia from the #sharethemicnow campaign, when she took over Jen’s Instagram to share some deep truths). Alencia helps us examine the intersectionality of racism and gender as she unspools more than 400 years of Black oppression in America, and helps us examine what our country could look like if we invested in the safety and health of ALL communities. Alencia longs to see action behind the words of those who have actual power to create change, and challenges us to implement that change swiftly to systems that uphold racism—and most importantly, sustain the change. Tackling some hard-hitting topics, Alencia touches on white fragility, voter suppression, and what “defunding the police” really means as she helps us imagine how our actions toward these problems might mirror the actions of an aggrieved, change-making, table-flipping Jesus in such a time as this. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! LAUREL SPRINGS | Register your child at laurelsprings.com/forthelove today and receive a waived registration fee. ANCESTRY| Head to ancestry.com/forthelove to get your AncestryDNA kit and start your free trial. CAMANO ISLAND COFFEE|Sign up for your Coffee Lover’s Membership, and get $20 off your first shipment at camanoislandcoffee.com/forthelove. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Since journalist (and now podcaster!) Jeff Chu came on the show in spring of 2019, we haven’t forgotten his poignant storytelling or his answer to the powerful question he’s asked himself since he was a kid: “Does Jesus really love me?” Jeff grew up immersed in a family of theologians, where knowing and sticking to the Bible’s rules were prized currency. As Jeff approached high school, he realized he was gay. Over time, while he prayed for God to change who he was, Jeff threw himself into his work to escape his inner turmoil and realized he was a gifted storyteller who loved talking with people from all walks of life. A few years ago, Jeff found himself on the road, searching for the answer to his long-held question across America as he interviewed everyone from nice church ladies to members of the Westboro Baptist Church. And as he talked to more and more people about their spiritual beliefs, he concluded that, yes—even though Jeff doesn’t feel like it some days—Jesus really does love us all. And if we actually believed He did, we would speak differently, tweet differently, love differently—in a nutshell, believing we’re loved would transform our lives. And don’t forget to check out Jeff’s brand-new podcast called “Evolving Faith,” which he’s co-hosting with FTL fan favorite Sarah Bessey! * * * Thank you to our sponsors! FabFitFun | Use coupon code “FTL” for $10 off your first box at fabfitfun.com #fabfitfunpartner BetterHelp |Take charge of your mental health—get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove Camano Island Coffee | Sign up for the Coffee Lovers Membership and get $20 off your first shipment at camanoislandcoffee.com/forthelove To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

When lawyer-turned-writer Gretchen Rubin first came on the show in 2019, we were dazzled by the wisdom and tools she shared on how to live with more contentment, right where we are. A decade ago, Gretchen fancied herself a happy person. She had a job she liked, a husband and two daughters she loved, a life she enjoyed. But one day she found herself wondering, “Could I be happier?” So she set out to change her life—not in a blow-it-all-up-and-move-across-the-world kind of way, but with small steps over one year. Gretchen documented her experiment to live happier in the blockbuster New York Times bestseller The Happiness Project, and has inspired millions to improve their lives and find contentment. Jen and Gretchen talk about why it’s okay to pursue happiness in a world filled with hard things, and the little ways we can reach for a richer, more satisfying life. Gretchen shows how easy it is to work “happiness habits” into our lives (Jen adopted one immediately after this interview!) and how these small steps can yield big, long-term results. And don’t forget to check out Gretchen’s latest book Outer Order, Inner Calm. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! ThirdLove | Get 15% off your first order at thirdlove.com/forthelove KiwiCo | Get 30% off your first month, plus FREE shipping on any crate line at kiwico.com/forthelove Stamps.com | Start your 4-week trial (plus, get free postage and a digital scale) at stamps.com, and enter FORTHELOVE To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

When our third Summer Best Of teacher speaks, people listen—and we couldn’t forget the powerful words she shared on For the Love in 2019. Raised a Southern Baptist, as she grew older Kaitlin Curtice began to explore her family’s rich history in the Potawatomi Citizen Band. Kaitlin tells us what life is like as an indigenous woman in the United States today, how she’s teaching her kids about their heritage and how we can rally around teachers of color during their hardest moments. Kaitlin reminds us we have a responsibility to incorporate a wide range of voices into our world and remember the power of empathizing with an experience different from our own. One of the most poignant lessons she gives us: God is is inviting us into the sacred, and it’s not in a far-off sunbeam or reserved for the church pew—the sacred is all around us, from the daffodils on the street corner to the popsicle-stained smile of our kid, even as we are consoled in our pain and grief. God’s glory is in everyone and everything. We only need eyes to see it. Be sure to check out her new book “Native.” * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Noom |Start your trial today at noom.com/forthelove Rothy’s |Check out all the amazing shoes (and bags!) available right now at rothys.com/forthelove BetterHelp | Take charge of your mental health—get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Our second Summer Best Of guest is a teacher who taught us how to embrace peace with others, but also within ourselves. Osheta Moore is a writer, speaker, podcaster, and a faith groundbreaker. She’s also a powerful leader on racial reconciliation and equality, and through it all, she teaches that God wants each of us to be whole, vibrant, and flourishing. In her book and podcast called Shalom Sistas, Osheta breaks down 12 ways we can turn “shalom” into an action. She shows us how to become peacemakers in our everyday lives—not just with each other, but with ourselves and with God. Osheta shows us that peace is more than just a feeling. It’s the belief that God created us perfectly, just as we are, and the bodies that we live and practice shalom in, from the color of our skin to the shape of our hips, are wholly good. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Ancestry | Get your AncestryDNA kit and start your free trial at ancestry.com/forthelove Green Chef | Get $80 off your first month plus free shipping on your first box at greenchef.com/forthelove80 Camano Island Coffee | Sign up for the Coffee Lovers Membership and get $20 off your first shipment at camanoislandcoffee.com/forthelove To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ever wish you had a toolkit tailor-made to get you through 2020? Us too. That’s why we pulled together a few of our favorite teachers who have graced the podcast over the years, so we can brush up on the important lessons they taught us and tools they gave us to meet this moment. First up is the matriarch of our favorite “What is saving your life right now?” question—Barbara Brown Taylor! Barbara is a New York Times bestselling author, teacher, and Episcopal priest, and she came on the show during our “For the Love of Exploring Our Faith” series in 2018. Her book Learning to Walk in the Dark was featured on the cover of TIME Magazine, and in 2014, TIME also included her on its annual list of Most Influential People (PS she also appeared on Super Soul Sunday with Oprah, so no big deal). Long a favorite author of Jen’s, Barbara has a unique way of sharing essential truths about beauty and about God, and shows us that it cannot be contained inside any walls that people build. Her view is that Jesus “placed higher value on human relationships than on religion. He never told His followers to love their religion—just their neighbors, their enemies, and God." * * * Thank you to our sponsors! BetterHelp | Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove Ancestry | Get your AncestryDNA kit and start your free trial at ancestry.com/forthelove Camano Island Coffee | Sign up for the Coffee Lovers Membership and get $20 off your first shipment at camanoislandcoffee.com/forthelove To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

To close our spectacular Enneagram series, last but certainly not least (we promise, Nines!), we’re diving into the earnest and endearingly sincere Peacemakers with Jen’s wonderful friend and all-around good human, author Sarah Bessey. Fondly called the crown of the Enneagram, Type Nines have the gift to be fully empathetic, to love and accept without judgement because they can see others as made in God’s image. For a Nine, everyone belongs. This type may seem slow to move sometimes—that’s because they’re content to live in this very moment. Sarah demonstrates the ways that Nines can be mediators, but she also shares how a Nine’s shadow side leans away from conflict and into numbness and routine, pushing them to be a little sloth-like. In their unhealthiest state, a Nine’s identity morphs into whoever’s surrounding them at the moment. But as they grow, Nines realize they don’t have to sacrifice who they are just to keep the peace—their voices are valuable and deserve to be heard. Stay tuned ‘til the end to hear how Ryan O’Neal (AKA Sleeping at Last) created a piece that was extremely vulnerable and painfully honest, as he had to confront his own weaknesses as a type Nine in order to grow into his full potential. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Laurel Springs | Register your child at laurelsprings.com/forthelove today and receive a waived registration fee KiwiCo | Get 30% off your first month on select crates at kiwico.com/forthelove ThirdLove | Get 15% off your first order at thirdlove.com/forthelove To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Make way for the Enneagram Eights! On this week’s episode, we get to chat with not one, but two experts about the steely armor and tender insides that make up The Challengers, as they’re sometimes called. Sarajane Case of Enneagram & Coffee helps us unpack the hallmark characteristic of an Eight—their strength—and reveals that an Eight’s strength typically stems from childhood happenings that trigger the notion that they have to take care of themselves, which they can also wrap around their loved ones and those in need. This protective instinct means that Eights aren’t intimidated by opposition, but they do fear being betrayed or controlled—and when that happens, it can appear that Eights don’t need a shoulder to lean on. But, as Sarajane shows us, in order to love an Eight well, they need to see strength in us so that they can release the heavy responsibility they feel to carry the world’s weight on their shoulders. Abi Robins of Conscious Enneagram shares their expertise as not only an Eight themselves, but also as a teacher of The Narrative Enneagram. Abi also breaks down a new-to-us Enneagram term called “subtypes,” of which there are three—self-preservation, one-to-one, and social—and shows how these subtypes affect the way our Enneagram numbers play out in the world. Abi opens up about the incredible resilience that Eights possess and vulnerably shares what type Eight growth looks like to someone with a marginalized identity. Abi explains that a heated exchange that may look like an argument to some types is just a problem-solving, connective conversation to an Eight, and how that willingness to engage with an Eight, even when it’s messy, is the key to unlocks an Eight’s trust. Make sure you listen all the way through the hear how composer Ryan O’Neal (AKA Sleeping at Last) created a piece as strong as the Eights are, with a little touch of vulnerability that those who are close to Eights are lucky enough to glimpse. * * * Rothy's | Check out all the stylish and sustainable shoes (and amazing bags!) at rothys.com/forthelove BetterHelp | Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove Stamps.com | Start your 4-week trial (plus, get free postage and a digital scale) at stamps.com, and enter FORTHELOVE To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Enneagram Sevens! You can’t say it without an exclamation point, right? This week we look at what many consider to be the most “fun” number on the Enneagram—known as The Enthusiasts for good reason! To guide us is a true Seven among Sevens and friend of the podcast, Bob Goff. Bob is a man of many hats—attorney, honorary consul, author, and humanitarian, to name a few. He’s here to share about the power of a Seven’s joy, their ability to have big dreams and ideas, and that a Seven’s enthusiasm isn’t as spontaneous as you would think—there’s planning and thought behind it. As part of the thinking triad, these joyful strategists are full of situational awareness. They’re in tune with examining why they do the things they do, but they also carry a deep fear of rejection. Sevens possess a beautiful, natural curiosity about possibilities. They’re excellent at saying, “Let’s just see what will happen . . .” and they’re brave enough to take those chances. Sevens strive for meaning, not just surface-level joy. As Jen puts it, “These are people that really come alongside the rest of us and go, ‘What's your dream? You can do this.’” Also, if you stick around to the end of the episode, you’ll be delighted to hear composer Ryan O’Neal (AKA Sleeping at Last) talk about how he crafted a piece for Sevens inspired by Disney classics like Peter Pan and Inside Out—and you’ll hear Bob Goff himself, who contributed his own ukulele stylings to the piece (such a Seven thing to do!). * * * Thank you to our sponsors! FabFitFun | Get $10 off your first box when you go to https://fabfitfun.com and use the code FTL at checkout Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Join today at https://jenhatmakerbookclub.com Jo Saxton Leadership Coaching | Sign up for a 30-day trial (and access the workshop led by Be the Bridge’s LaTasha Morrison) at http://josaxtonleadershipcoaching.com/forthelove To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On this incredibly meaningful, special bonus episode of For the Love, in honor of Pride Month, a mother and daughter come together to have a frank and beautiful conversation about what it’s like to grow up as the daughter of a popular Christian author and speaker and in a household steeped in the church . . . and realize you’re gay. This is Jen and Sydney Hatmaker’s experience—and in this episode, Sydney and her mom tell their story so that parents, family, and friends of LGBTQ+ kids who need trustworthy voices to lead them into love and affirmation will find hope here. Sydney bravely and tenderly shares how she grappled with reconciling her sexuality and her spirituality, all the while wondering if God would still love her if she decided to build a life where she could be who she was meant to be. The pair candidly discuss Sydney’s initial silent journey and Jen’s deep regret at not being more aware of what her daughter needed during these early days as Sydney wrestled alone with who she was. Jen and Sydney make a call to Christians to look at what it means to really love our LGBTQ+ family: recognizing them wholly as God’s children, who are wholly loved by God. Sydney also gives us insight into how we can come alongside our LGBTQ+ family by showing us what meaningful allyship looks like: supporting and protecting those who are subject to marginalization with tangible actions filled with love. * * * Thank you to our episode sponsors! Ancestry | Get your AncestryDNA kit and start your free trial at ancestry.com/forthelove Queer RelationTips Podcast | Listen and subscribe today, wherever you get your podcasts. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On today’s peek behind the Enneagram curtain, we get to learn all about Type Sixes—the Loyalists—and what makes them tick. Graphic designer, Enneagram artist, and Disney cast member Ashton Brye shares how she discovered the Enneagram, applied her own artistic and pop culture spin on it, and voila! Her Instagram following @ashton.creates skyrocketed, all born out of her desire to learn more about all the Enneagram types. As a Six herself, Ashton breaks down for us how Sixes have a deep longing for safety and security, which they find through preparedness. Unfortunately, that need to be on top of things can often be mistakenly labeled for anxiety and fear. Sixes are crazy loyal and responsible, and they value structure. As Ashton shares, when a Six goes in on something, they go all in--which is why they make excellent friends. Ashton talks a little bit about how it’s hard for Sixes to turn their minds off and relax without thinking about what needs to get done in the future, that for Sixes, it’s a balance of learning what can wait. In conflict, like in everything else they do, Sixes are all in, and they crave reassurance from others that you aren’t going to leave them. And PS: don’t forget to stick around until the end of the episode to hear composer Ryan O’Neal (AKA Sleeping at Last) talk about how he crafted a soothing, safe, and whimsical musical piece inspired by type Sixes. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Noom | Start your trial today at noom.com/fortheloveBetterHelp | Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/fortheloveLaurel Springs | Register your child at laurelsprings.com/forthelove today and receive a waived registration fee To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today we begin a deep dive into the head triad, starting with Type Fives—the Investigators. And because there’s so much to learn about the complex Fives, we have not one but two guests to share their input: Enneagram expert Dr. Avon Manney, and podcaster/author/Enneagram Five Knox McCoy. Dr. Avon (a Nine married to a Five!) shares how she started applying the Enneagram to her osteopathy practice so she could help patients heal emotional issues that were manifesting in her patients’ bodies. She talks about how Fives are explorers who want to know how and why things work the way they do. Taking Dr. Avon’s insights a step further and giving us a peek under the hood, Knox explains how that exploration shows up in his own life—as a Five, he’s motivated to make sure he shows up as competent and prepared in every situation. Knox also breaks down something Fives suffer from called “catastrophic depletion,” which basically means Fives have a limited energy reservoir, and once it’s gone for the day, it is gone. As profoundly efficient fixers, Fives possess a beautiful clarity of thought, a thirst for knowledge, and an unparalleled loyalty for those they love. And just wait until you make it to the end, when we hear from composer Ryan O’Neal (AKA Sleeping At Last), about how he completed a music piece inspired by Fives—his longest piece in the whole series! * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Ancestry | Head to ancestry.com/forthelove to get your AncestryDNA kit and start your free trial. KiwiCo | Get 30% off your first month on select crates at kiwico.com/forthelove. Laurel Springs | Register your child at laurelsprings.com/forthelove today and receive a waived registration fee. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In light of the uprisings of the past weeks, it is not enough to perform wokeness. We need true solidarity. True solidarity requires an understanding of the historical and cultural roots and current-day patterns of white women’s betrayals of people of color. It will also require repair. This is a raw, honest, informative, solidarity-building conversation with author and Freedom Road founder and president Lisa Sharon Harper. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Our Enneagram series continues with another type who rounds out the heart triad: the beautifully complex Type Fours (also known as The Romantics). To lead us on all things Type Four, we have an incredible returning guest: a Four himself, Ian Morgan Cron. Ian wears many hats—Enneagram expert, author of The Road Back to You, host of Typology Podcast, priest and psychotherapist, to name a few—and his Fourness is revealed in his beautiful, open posture toward humanity. He walks us through how Fours believe that they have an “unredeemable deficiency,” how they feel a little different and off-center, and have a vague dissatisfaction with themselves. Typically seen as the most complex of all the Enneagram numbers, Fours seek to be special in some way to fill this inner void, and the road to being a healthy Four is when they realize that “specialness” isn’t their sole path to being loved. Ian shares personally his experience that the superpower of a Four is emotional intuitiveness and empathy; Fours are equipped to come alongside people in their dark moments and walk through the suffering with them, and they tend to gravitate towards spaces in which they can uniquely contribute to conversation. Conversely, Fours in conflict tend to withdraw, and Ian shares how they can be lovingly drawn out. And don’t forget to stick around until the end to hear from composer Ryan O’Neal (AKA Sleeping At Last), who shares his process for crafting a music piece as uniquely complex as Type Fours. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The next stop on the For the Love of The Enneagram train takes us to the land of the Enneagram Threes (also known as The Achievers). Leading us today are two Threes—someone you may know named Jen Hatmaker who’s a Three, and Lisa Whelchel. Lisa’s an actor (you may know her best as Blair from the ‘80s sitcom “The Facts of Life”), author, speaker, and life coach who is not only a Three herself, but who also raised a Three, and she’s just walked through a twelve-year journey of deconstructing and reconstructing everything about her life: everything she knows and everything she believed about herself and her faith. She’s dismantled so many internal walls that now, in her words, the love can flow without blocks. Lisa has bravely stepped out of safety and security in the pursuit of being whole, though her natural instincts told her to hide from the shame and fear she felt. She’s learned to overcome crowd-pleasing in order to live her own truth and be her most authentic self, and she shares what it looks like to be in a marriage and in conflict with someone of this type. And stay tuned at the end to hear from composer Ryan O’Neal (AKA Sleeping At Last), who shares his thoughts behind the music he created for the incredibly special Enneagram Three in his life. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! FabFitFun | Go to fabfitfun.com and use the code HATMAKER at checkout to get $10 off your first box. #fabfitfunpartner BestFiends | Download for FREE at the Apple App Store or Google Play. Ancestry | Head to Ancestry.com/forthelove to get your AncestryDNA kit and start your free trial. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Our next installment of For the Love of The Enneagram brings us to wonderful Enneagram Twos (aka The Helpers!). And leading our discussion is Phileena Heuertz, a spiritual director and Enneagram expert who, as a Two herself, knows how it feels to love others and want to help them as much as she can, while at the same time longing to feel accepted for who she is, not necessarily what she does for others. Years ago, after Phileena began to study the Enneagram a bit more and felt deeply seen by it, she began to ask herself some deep, probing questions about her Twoness: What is my motivation for serving others? Am I doing it to fulfill my need to be loved? If I stop serving you, will you still love me? And finally, Phileena realized she could find true freedom once she gave herself permission to take care of her own needs so that she could be her happiest, healthiest, and most authentic self—which would help her care for others even more deeply. Also featured in this episode is composer Ryan O’Neal (AKA Sleeping At Last), who shares his thoughts behind the music he created for the special Enneagram Twos in his life. * * * Thank you to our episode sponsors! Noom | Start your trial today at noom.com/forthelove BetterHelp | Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove Laurel Springs | Register your child at laurelsprings.com/forthelove and receive a waived registration fee To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Last week, we launched our brand-new Enneagram series, and today we begin our deep-dive into each of the nine numbers. We’re starting right at the top with Enneagram Ones—and who’s better to talk about Ones than with For the Love favorite, Fr. Richard Rohr? While we’ve been obsessed with the Enneagram for only a few years, Fr. Richard has been studying it for decades, and he has keen insight into the personality assessment. As a One himself, Fr. Richard opens the door into what it’s like to live inside the head of a One, and how even from an early age, Ones work so hard to be dependable, solutions-driven people. After years of trying to solve the world’s problems, Fr. Richard found freedom when he realized he couldn’t—and that was okay (plus, he found his relationships could be richer when he learned to enjoy being right without proclaiming to be right). Whether you’re a One, you love a One, or you’re raising a One, Fr. Richard’s insights are revelatory as he speaks about the motivations behind the type, how to approach conflict with Ones, and what it feels like to constantly have a critic inside your own head. And be sure to stick around to hear from composer Ryan O’Neal (AKA Sleeping At Last) and listen to his thoughts behind the music he crafted specifically for Ones, which appears all throughout this episode. * * * Jen’s new book, “Fierce, Free, and Full of Fire” is out now! http://fierceandfreebook.com * * * Thanks to our episode sponsors! - KiwiCo | Get your first month free on select crates at kiwico.com/forthelove - Aspen Lane |Get 10% off your order with discount code FORTHELOVE at shopaspenlane.com - Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Join the best book club community on the internet! jenhatmakerbookclub.com To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Good people of the internet and faithful For the Love listeners—you’ve asked, we’ve listened, and we are *thrilled* to invite you to our brand-new series on one of our favorite topics: The Enneagram personality assessment! Whether you’re a seasoned Ennea-thusiast or a complete newbie, you’re going to want to plug into this deep dive with Enneagram expert (and a Type 2 herself), Suzanne Stabile! Suzanne and Jen walk through the ins and outs of each of the nine Enneagram numbers, while Suzanne gives piercingly accurate insight on the motivations behind each personality type. Plus, Suzanne shares how we can learn to use the Enneagram as the ultimate empathy tool, as it helps us listen to and treat others in the way that they need, not in the way that we need. Suzanne and Jen agree that knowing yourself and others through identifying your type can revolutionize our relationships with our spouses, parents, kids, friends, coworkers—everyone. And be sure to check out the whole series featuring a deep dive into every number type over 9 episodes! * * * Jen’s new book, “Fierce, Free, and Full of Fire” is out now! http://fierceandfreebook.com * * * Thank you to our episode sponsors! BetterHelp Counseling | Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove Laurel Springs School | Register your child today at laurelsprings.com/forthelove and receive a waived registration fee Ancestry | Start exploring your family story today at ancestry.com/forthelove to get your AncestryDNA Kit and start your free trial To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Who would we be if we weren’t afraid? What would our lives look like if we pushed aside our greatest fears and let curiosity lead the way? Today we’re wrapping the Fierce, Free, and Full of Fire series with one of the world’s greatest teachers on how to live in the beauty of freedom: award-winning writer and all-around good human, Elizabeth Gilbert. Liz has opened her life and poured her lessons generously into masterpieces on creative living like Eat, Pray, Love and Big Magic, plus her latest work, the gorgeous novel City of Girls. Today Liz feeds our souls by giving us permission to throw away words like “passion” and “purpose” and “balance” (which, let’s be honest, are stifling) so that, instead, we can lower the stakes and allow ourselves the delight of discovery. * * * Jen’s new book, “Fierce, Free, and Full of Fire” is out now! http://fierceandfreebook.com * * * Thank you to our episode sponsors! - Best Fiends | Download Best Fiends FREE on the Apple App Store or Google Play. https://bestfiends.com - BeachBody on Demand | Text FORTHELOVE to 303030 and get a special free trial membership. - Camano Island Coffee | Sign up for a Coffee Lovers Membership and receive $20 off your first shipment. http://camanoislandcoffee.com/forthelove To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Have you ever wanted to be part of an actual book club? One that actually reads the book instead of just providing classy cover for wine drinking? (well, okay, there’s still a *little* wine drinking) Then seriously, you need to join the Jen Hatmaker Book Club! Every month, Jen sends you one of her favorite books (along with a box of goodies!), and sits down with the book’s author for a podcast that’s exclusive for members . . . until TODAY! Because the April author of the month is none other than one Ms. Jennifer Hatmaker, who wrote a brand-new book you may have heard a little something about called Fierce, Free, and Full of Fire. So to celebrate, Jen and her ride-or-die girlfriends Trina, Shonna, and Jenny hopped on Skype to talk about all the hard lessons and laughs they’ve had as they’ve lived out the pages of Fierce together. Jen and the gang talk about how they met, which friend can claim eternal credit for pushing Jen into creating a sphere of influence, how they’ve learned to love their bodies and make friendships last and trust themselves to create a life that’s worthy of the women full of fire they’ve been called to be. ***SIGN UP for the Jen Hatmaker Book Club today!jenhatmakerbookclub.com ***THANK YOU to our episode sponsors!- Aspen Lane | Get 10% off your order with discount code FORTHELOVE at shopaspenlane.com- Camano Island Coffee | Sign up for a Coffee Lovers Membership and get $20 off your first order at camanolislandcoffee.com/forthelove To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Fierce women are all around us—we are them, we raise them, we’ve been mentored by them. But lifestyle expert and entrepreneur Camila McConaughey takes that to a new level by cultivating a loving, open, supportive community called Women of Today. The ultimate example of a fierce woman, Camila moved independently from Brazil to the U.S. at only fifteen, determined to take the world by storm. After stumbling into modeling, Camila hustled, and she hustled hard. She lived her life to the very fullest, experiencing all she could, because those life moments are things that can never be taken away. She clung to faith to keep the discouragement at bay when things got hard, and she prayed diligently for God to reveal her bigger mission: “You take me where I’m supposed to go.” She’s a proponent of the spirit of trying, the experience of living, and innovating in every way possible, and she’s on the show to share what magic can happen when we’re comfortable and confident enough in our own skin that we can turn our efforts to the other women around us who need to be lifted. * * * Thank you to our episode sponsors! - Noom | Start your trial today at noom.com/forthelove - I Still Believe | watch the trailer | available on Blu-Ray/DVD on May 5 - International Justice Mission | watch stories of hope at ijm.org/sharehopenow To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Right now, we’re capable of so much more than surviving. We can thrive right now if we dig deep and we put our hand to this work. Award-winning ABC News correspondent Paula Faris, who also hosts the Journeys of Faith podcast, has just undergone an enormous self-transformation, right before all this COVID-19 craziness started happening, so she guides us through the waters here. She tells us how she’s leaning into her true purpose and how we use this season to discover ours. As co-anchor of Good Morning America Weekend and the co-host of The View, Paula was living her best life--or so she thought--because even though she had her dream job, she didn’t have her dream life. Fear haunted her when she first stepped into her career, and then again when stepping out of it, and she shares how facing that fear helped her realign her priorities and led to inner peace. In this season, it helps to be realistic with our expectations and our workload; focusing on practicality and giving ourselves (and our loved ones) grace. Like Paula, we can hit the reset button and consider where we are, what’s next, and where we want to go from here. * * * Thanks to our episode sponsor, International Justice Mission! ijm.org/sharehopenow To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Think about the day quarantine is over (dare we dream?). What will our lives look like? Who will we be? Is it possible that maybe, ever so gently, we can start taking a small inventory of what’s been serving us, and what we want to let go of? Leading us through these questions is the wise and witty Sheri Salata, former executive producer of The Oprah Winfrey Show, former co-president of Harpo Network and OWN. One day, Sheri woke up at age 57 and discovered that while she had the career of her dreams, she didn’t have the life of her dreams—and she embarked on a journey to reverse those roles, which she talks about in her most excellent book, The Beautiful No. Sheri walks us through how to recognize when you’re living in deliberate unconsciousness, why it’s never too late to dream a new dream, and how committing to radical self-care is a surefire way to change your life for the better. Sheri reminds us that we’re not worthy because of what we achieve—we are worthy simply because of who we are. * * * Thanks to our episode sponsor, International Justice Mission! ijm.org/sharehopenow To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Our next “Fierce” guest is coming in hot! The dynamite leader of the Own It Academy, Jordan Lee Dooley, takes the mic to push us to ponder what our true dreams really are and how we can start to own them—even if we have to take steps outside of our comfort zone box (or the box that others have put us in!). And Jordan doesn’t just talk about chasing dreams—she’s a woman who walks behind her words. Jordan reveals how she forged her own path from Etsy shop owner to business educator, author, and podcaster by daring to take chances and try different career paths as she honed her gift for communication. And Jordan realized as she gave herself permission to try new things, she kept herself open to discover all the seemingly random skills weren’t meaningless—they could be woven together to create a phenomenal career to help women all over the globe. Jordan and Jen talk through what it means to pivot well and why finding our passion actually isn’t the biggest task of our lives—it’s recognizing what our skills are, and using them to contribute help humankind flourish. Jordan reminds us that our job is not to accomplish things—it’s to leave behind a legacy of relationships and love as integrated women who know themselves and help others know themselves, too. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re all struggling with resentment right now—separation from family and friends, lost jobs and furloughs, cancelled graduations and vacations, and even struggling to come up with grace for the people living right inside our very houses. But our guest today, New York Times bestselling author Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt, reminds us how healing and freeing it can be to wrap this season—and the rest of our lives—in forgiveness, even when it’s incredibly hard to encounter our pain and try to let it all go. Katherine’s spent the last few years in the quest to understand forgiveness after a terrible rift with a close friend. And in her journey, she talked to more than 20 people from all walks of life who have encountered tragedy and personal demons—everyone from headline-making names like Elizabeth Smart to friend-of-the-podcast Nadia Bolz-Weber. Katherine recorded her conversations and insights in her brand-new book The Gift of Forgiveness. Katherine’s words will fill you with hope because, as she says, “When we learn to embrace forgiveness, it opens us up to healing, hope, and a new world of possibility.” To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Quarantine Queens is back with another episode as we continue to muddle through this weird time of isolation and the ongoing search for the elusive “new normal,” including; when is it okay to take a break from the seriousness of it all to have fun and laugh? Enter this week’s guest, best-selling author and award winning comedian Jim Gaffigan. Like Jen, Jim is quarantining with his spouse and 5 kids, but unlike Jen, they literally can’t go one step out the door—as Jim describes it—“taking out the trash is my ‘me’ time.” Like so many of us, Jim and his family are navigating completely unknown territory where questions of “what’s next” with jobs, school, trips and obligations remain vague at best—and he’s graciously invited us to take a peek at how his family is handling it all with his hilarious online series “Dinner with The Gaffigans.” If you think you deserve a parade because you cooked 3 meals for your family in a day while in quarantine, or because you changed a water filter without calling anyone, Jim and Jen are your staunch advocates. Ultimately, they discuss what they hope we’ll walk away with from this unsettling season, and Jim even gives Jen a pep talk about the pros and cons of launching a new book during a pandemic. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The For the Love world is totally upside-down today, y’all. Jen is a guest on her own podcast, and gets interviewed about her new book, Fierce, Free, and Full of Fire, by the ever-so-magical Melissa Radke! Jen reveals the first outlier women who made lasting impressions on her: watching how they lived in her own skins in a way that didn't fit the template Jen had been prescribed from her conservative upbringing. The two talk about growing up in the church and the messaging they received about who they should be as women, and the hard work of pushing past those boundaries to become the women they were designed to be. Listen as Melissa pulls an “Oprah” on Jen, how some of Jen’s words made Melissa “mad,” and how they both are learning to discover who they are and how to love every part of themselves (and we can too). Finding a sense of belonging to ourselves, uncovering who we are and what we want, is the start of the journey to becoming Fierce, Free and Full of Fire. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What do you do when you believe God is good, that He has a plans to give us hope and a future, and yet the reality of what we’re living is . . . well, it’s hard. And sad. So how do we reconcile having hard feelings and holding onto faith? Times like these call for experts who’ve walked hard paths before, and we have that leader in the incredible Kate Bowler, an associate professor at Duke Divinity School and NYT bestselling author of Everything Happens for a Reason: And Other Lies I’ve Loved. After Kate walked through a Stage IV cancer diagnosis at 35 years old, she’s gained some hard-earned wisdom that she she shares abundantly, like how to manage our moments when we can’t plan for the future (spoiler alert: look for signs of hope in the in-between space). Plus, Kate reminds us that the language of the Christian faith isn’t always self-improvement—there’s a purpose to our pain, and it’s something we need to talk about, because we can be scared and still be faithful. Let’s be honest: we’re living through a really hard season. But even right now, God is still here with us. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Parents, we’re trying our best here. Who’d have ever thought we’d find ourselves in the middle of a pandemic, trying to help our offspring navigate a world we don’t really know how to wade through ourselves? Two of our fellow parents, blogger Jessica Turner and children’s book author Matthew Paul Turner, share how they’re managing all the moving pieces, and how they’re trying to balance structure with whimsy to keep kids on track. The Turners also give us the scoop on which tools and resources that are helping them navigate life with their three kids from pre-K to 5th grade (spoiler alert: subscription boxes are worth their weight in gold). As busy working parents, Jessica and Matthew remind us that we can put away the expectations for perfect homeschooling (scratch that, crisis schooling) or perfect anything, really, and trust that being present and hopeful in this new season will carry us through. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices