For The Love With Jen Hatmaker Podcast

Calling all book nerds! Are you looking for a place where your book-loving heart can flourish? Join us at jenhatmakerbookclub.com, and become one of our sisters in nerdiness. For April 2021, Jen chose her own book, Simple and Free, because what’s the point in having a book club if you can’t pick your own book every now and again? Jen invited two of her very best friends, Jenny and Shonna, to jump in on the discussion. They reminisce about the group decision to dive into living the experience of writing the book, why eating beans and rice for a whole month isn’t the most fun, and how not to train for a half marathon. This book reminds us that in a world filled with choices, sometimes you need to boil it down and bring it back to truly understand what you have, and recognize what means most to you. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! BetterHelp | Join over 1 million people taking charge of their mental health. As a listener, you’ll get 10% off your first month by visiting https://BetterHelp.com/forthelove. Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Join the bookclub sisterhood for reading plans, summaries, and exclusive perks. Visit https://jenhatmakerbookclub.com to learn more. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Just as we rely on spring each year to bring light and warmth back into our lives, we also depend on the lessons of life that show up during each season. That’s why on this series of For the Love we are bringing back some of our all-time favorite guests. Not only to remind ourselves of what life was like way back when it was normal, but also to give ourselves the chance to look back on some life lessons that we should always carry with us. And this week, we are bringing you the one and only, Emily Ley. You know the superstar mom that built the Simplified empire from the ground up? Yes, that one. Not only does she guide women to live their lives based in simplicity, she also encourages them to evaluate what truly matters, and ditch what doesn’t. Jen revisits why it’s so important to not only clear clutter from your home, but to also clear the clutter mentally. Because once we take the time to remove the unnecessary parts of life, we are then able to live a life filled with joy and passion for what we actually care about. AND Jen has all new commentary about how decluttering gives you space to live simple and free and grow boldly--also the topics of Jen’s and Emily’s new books. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Best Fiends | Download the 5 star-rated puzzle game, Best Fiends FREE today on the App Store or Google Play. That’s FRIENDS without the R – Best Fiends! Ancestry | There’s strength in every family story. Learn more about yours at Ancestry. Head to my URL at https://Ancestry.com/ForTheLove to start your free trial. Rothy’s | Style and sustainability meet to create your new favorites! Check out all the amazing shoes, bags and masks available right now at https://Rothys.com/FORTHELOVE. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Spring is here, and you know what that means! Blossoming, regrowth, cleaning out, all the goodness that comes with a new season. But that doesn’t mean we should leave behind the lessons learned last season. We can be watering what we planted, watching it grow, and trying to become the better humans we’ve always strived to be. There are truths and lessons that come back year after year, reminding us of who we want to be and who we should be. To that end, we’ve gathered some wisdom from a few of our favorite For The Love Podcast guests that speak into what’s happening in our world right now, plus some brand new commentary from Jen as to how we can apply these ideas to where we are in our lives today. Spring back with as we revisit these time-tested truths while we keep on finding our footing in the present. Episode Description It’s new series time--and we’re “springing back” to some For the Love favorites, while bringing you some new thoughts from Jen’s heart in this season! As they say, what’s old becomes new again, and we can rely on spring every year to bring us that new growth; from the plants to the trees, and oftentimes within our own souls. This week we are bringing back one of Jen’s longtime inspirations and mentors, Beth Moore. Beth’s recent split from her roots in the Southern Baptist community after calling out the misogyny, inequality, and disregard for many minority communities has a lot of people talking. It was a big, huge deal, and Jen explains what this means to the Christian zeitgeist. Jen also revisits her favorite moments with Beth and dives back into how we can learn to live a life filled with faith even if that means pushing back against long held, and perhaps antiquated beliefs. So, let’s Spring back to our interview with Beth, and reflect on the biblical concept of the vineyard and how vines can grow in rocky places, opening space for God to prune and prepare us for change that comes with seasons of growth. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Noom |There’s a science to getting healthier. It’s called Noom. Sign up for your trial today at noom.com/forthlove. Chime | Join the millions on Chime. Signup takes two minutes, and doesn’t affect your credit score! Apply now at chime.com/FORTHELOVE. Public | You can start investing today with as little as $1. You’ll even get a free slice of stock when you join. Just go to public.com/JEN to download. *Disclaimer: Chime is a financial technology company. Banking services provided by The Bancorp Bank or Stride Bank, N.A.; Members FDIC. Eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Overdraft only applies to debit card purchases. Limits start at $20 and may be increased up to $100 by Chime. Early Direct Deposit depends on the payer. Out-of-Network cash withdrawal fees apply. Third-party and cash deposit fees may apply. Go to Chime.com/FORTHELOVE for details. Public is valid for U.S. residents 18+. Subject to account approval. See Public.com/disclosures. Not investment advice. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Calling all book nerds! Are you looking for a place where your book-loving heart can flourish? Join us at jenhatmakerbookclub.com, and become one of our sisters in nerdiness. For March 2021, Jen and the club read Laura Zigman’s Separation Anxiety. Laura shot into superstardom with the publication of her first novel, Animal Husbandry, which was later adapted into the film Someone Like You starring Hugh Jackman and Ashley Judd. So, no big deal for your first book, right? Laura’s latest book, Separation Anxiety, helps readers face the complexities of everyday life in the 21st century. From self-help culture, anxiety, depression, and longing for what once was, Zigman knits and weaves the lives of her characters in a way that makes them relatable, complex, and at times absurd. The book reminds us that not everything is straightforward with one path ahead. Oftentimes we need to evaluate where we are and how we can grow in order to be who we’re meant to be. * * * Join the sisterhood today! jenhatmakerbookclub.com * * * NEW JEN BOOK! Get Simple and Free, a call toward simplicity and generosity for a radically better life (a revised and updated version of Jen’s book 7) https://jenhatmaker.com/books/simple-and-free * * * Thank you to our sponsor! KiwiCo | Get 30% off your first month at kiwico.com, promo code: FORTHELOVE To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s the grand finale of our For the Love of Food series—and lucky for us, we’ve got someone on today who holds the very high honor of “Most Requested For the Love Podcast Guest of All Time”—Joanna Gaines! Jen and Jo are real-life buddies, and this week they dive into Joanna’s rich family heritage that introduced her to so many cuisines from around the world by the time she could crawl. They dish about how to get a big family to get to the table, let alone connect at the table, how Jo finds joy in her garden, and why the kitchen is her happy place (even as she’s learning to cook on camera for her new show on the Magnolia Network called Magnolia Table with Joanna Gaines). The two also get into very serious topics like the war between Ragú and Prego, and why ramen most certainly *cannot* have an egg in it. Through it all, Joanna shows that food has the power to bring life to any situation, and why getting folks around the table is far more important than how perfect the dish is that brought them there. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! KiwiCo | Snag 30% off your first month at https://kiwico.com, promo code: FORTHELOVE ThirdLove | Score 20% off your first purchase at https://thirdlove.com/forthelove BetterHelp | Get 10% off your first month at https://betterhelp.com/forthelove To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

“Come on over.” Talk about three words that promise fun’s on the way! We’re daydreaming of getting back to game nights with our besties, and margaritas with the neighbors, and the great Jeff Mauro is no exception. You may know him as a cohost on Food Network’s The Kitchen, or maybe as a winner of The Next Food Network Star. After getting his start working in a deli when he was 15 and later opening his own, Jeff is the larger-than-life sandwich king who’s just published a cookbook and launched a podcast—and both are called Come On Over! Jeff and Jen dive into why you *must* establish proper sandwich making protocol, and why it’s wise to become friends with your local deli guy. Jeff shows us that food has the power to bring together people of all ages, and after the past year, the “Come On Over” mentality might look different, but we can still find the same spirit of love and connection through a shared meal. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Policygenius | Policygenius has saved customers up to $1,055 per year compared to their current home & auto policies. Head to Policygenius.com to get started! Bloomscape | Get 15% off plant orders of $100 with promo code FORTHELOVE at bloomscape.com Ancestry | There’s strength in every family story—learn more about yours at Ancestry. Head to my URL at ancestry.com/forthelove to start your free trial. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

When you’re a kitchen newbie, it can feel a little intimidating—and even overwhelming—to figure out how to put a good meal together, especially if you’re just asking yourself questions like, “What the heck is oregano, anyway?” But we all start somewhere, even world-renowned country music artists. Martina McBride is a 14-time GRAMMY-nominated country singer, cookbook author, and self-taught home chef. Jen and Martina talk through what it’s really like to put a cookbook together, how these two Kansas girls learned the ins and outs of the kitchen in their adult years, and how a neighborhood golf cart can bring us a new verse to our all-time favorite Martina song “For the Girls!” * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Noom | Start your trial today at noom.com/forthelove Best Fiends | Download for FREE today on the Apple App Store or Google Play. Rothy’s | Check out all the amazing shoes—and bags! and masks!—available right now at Rothys.com/FORTHELOVE. BetterHelp | Get 10% off your first month by visiting betterhelp.com/forthelove To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We *know* we aren’t the only ones who spend hours on the couch binging episodes of Chopped or Iron Chef. Not only is it super satisfying watching other people cook— we feel like we become friends with the contestants and judges. And this week, we get to hear from one of our favorite Food Network chefs/judges/friends, Maneet Chauhan! Maneet and Jen take a walk through Maneet’s culinary history from her beginnings in India to the leap she took into the NYC culinary scene, and why she decided to begin her own restaurant empire in Nashville. Maneet has become known as the fun, kind, and bubbly judge on Chopped and now tells the full story of her path to culinary star in her latest book, Chaat. We’re so pleased to have Maneet’s perspective during our For the Love of Food series as she lifts up fellow female professional chefs and helps us understand the legacy of culturally driven foods. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Public | Go to public.com/JEN to follow me on Public.com and see what I’m investing in. You can start investing today with as little as $1. Chime | Join the millions on Chime. Signup takes two minutes, and doesn’t affect your credit score! Apply now at chime.com/FORTHELOVE. American Giant | Get your Classic Full Zip Hoodie at american-giant.com today and use promo code FORTHELOVE for 15% off your first order. **DISCLAIMERS**PUBLIC: Valid for U.S. residents 18+. Subject to account approval. See Public.com/disclosures. Not investment advice. CHIME: Chime is a financial technology company. Banking services provided by The Bancorp Bank or Stride Bank, N.A.; Members FDIC. Eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Overdraft only applies to debit card purchases. Limits start at $20 and may be increased up to $100 by Chime. Early Direct Deposit depends on the payer. Out-of-Network cash withdrawal fees apply. Third-party and cash deposit fees may apply. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In the past year, many of us have looked at our kitchens and had to flip the Open sign to Closed. We put big holidays dinners on hold. We canceled game nights with our friends. We traded cutting boards for takeout containers because we just. couldn’t. cook. another. meal. But we still need to eat and nourish our bodies and souls, and for that, we turn to Alex Snodgrass of The Defined Dish. Alex shares her unlikely journey to creating a popular food brand and a New York Times bestselling cookbook (also called The Defined Dish), how to your get over your anchovy aversion (it’s worth it, we promise), and why healthy eating doesn’t mean a carrot stick on a bed of lettuce. Jen and Alex talk about how food can bond groups of people who may not come together otherwise, and why forming a community is super rewarding—even if you’re separated by a screen. * * * Get Jen’s latest book, SIMPLE & FREE! jenhatmaker.com/simpleandfree * * * Thank you to our sponsors! KiwiCo | Get 30% off your first month plus FREE shipping on ANY crate line at kiwico.com, promo code FORTHELOVE Third Love | Go to thirdlove.com/FORTHELOVE to find your perfect-fitting bra and get 20% off your first purchase! Ancestry | There’s strength in every family story. Learn more about yours at Ancestry. Head to my URL at Ancestry.com/ForTheLove to start your free trial. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Break out the confetti cannons because today’s guest is someone we’ve wanted on the show since Day 1: the one and only Jennifer Garner! Who didn’t love Alias? Who doesn’t watch 13 Going on 30 at least once a year? Jen Garner is one of our favorite actors ever, and today, the two Jens talk about all things Yes Day, Jen Garner’s brand-new movie on Netflix that’s the *perfect* feel-good watch for your family this spring break. The Jens talk about the phenomenon of Yes Days they’ve shared with their own kids (i.e. magical days where kids can do basically anything they want within reason) and how these days have brought their families closer together. From sitting in the front seat to getting eyebrows threaded to sharing s’mores around a campfire in the backyard, there’s so much joy to be found when we say yes a little more to our kids—and even to ourselves. * * * Thank you to our sponsor! BetterHelp | Join over 1 million people taking charge of their mental health at https://BetterHelp.com/forthelove To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We hope all you foodies out there have been enjoying the Food 2.0 series. But we know some of you saw what this series was about and thought, I can’t cook, I’ve never cooked, I will never cook, and you can’t make me! Listen, we get it—cooking isn’t everyone’s bag. It wasn’t Bri McKoy’s either. Bri’s an accidental home cook turned cookbook author, and her foray into the culinary space started when her husband refused to build a home out of their collection of Thai takeout containers. Bri reluctantly learned what a pinch of salt was, how to literally toast bread, and that onion casseroles perhaps aren’t the best idea to serve, well, ever. Bri watched a lot of Food Network and honed her craft, and since then she’s found a love for traveling with knives, and as a military wife, she’s learned food can be an easy way to bring people to the table and build community. Jen and Bri share some of their most epic kitchen failures, divulge the biggest lessons we can learn from standing over a stove, and reveal their can’t-live-without-it kitchen gadgets. Bri shows that food fills our days with simple joy and helps us forge new relationships with people in ways we never thought possible—even over a Zoom cocktail. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Noom | Ready to learn how to live healthier? Sign up for your trial today at noom.com/forthelove American Giant | Get 15% your first order when you use promo code FORTHELOVE at american-giant.com Ancestry | Start exploring your family story today! Head to ancestry.com/FORTHELOVE to get your AncestryDNA kit and start your free trial. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Calling all book nerds! Are you looking for a place where your book-loving heart can flourish? Join us at jenhatmakerbookclub.com, and become one of our sisters in nerdiness. For February 2021, the Jen Hatmaker Book Club read the novel Red at the Bone by four-time National Book Award winner Jacqueline Woodson, and whew, what a story. Jacqueline is a master storyteller who explores all kinds of topics—sexual desire and identity, ambition, gentrification, education, class and status, and the life-altering facts of parenthood—with the grace and nuance that each deserves. Red at the Bone is a fascinating novel that looks at the ways young people often make long-lasting decisions about their lives—even before they’ve begun to figure out who they are and what they want to be. * * * Join the sisterhood today! jenhatmakerbookclub.com * * * Thank you to our sponsors! American Giant | Get 15% off your first order at american-giant.com, promo code FORTHELOVE PolicyGenius | Reshop your home & auto insurance rates, and you could save up to $1,055. Head to policygenius.com today! To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’ve got a crush on this series and everyone in it—because FOOD! For the Love of Food, Part 2 is cooking up something new this week as we move into BAKING with a member of the royal family of baking itself—The Great British Bake Off’s Nadiya Hussain! Nadiya is not only the Mary Poppins of baking, she’s also hosting a brand-new show on Netflix that’ll be your brand-new happy place, and it’s called—what else?—Nadiya Bakes. Nadiya reveals why she never turned on an oven or baked anything until her 20s, why her husband sent in an application to Bake Off without her knowing (!), and how she learned to be confident in the kitchen and how to keep saying yes to new opportunities. Nadiya shows us that baking doesn’t have to be Bake Off-level perfect to bring people together, and promises our mashed potatoes would be better if we just added a bit of mayo to the mix (we’ll take her word for it!). * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Best Fiends | Download FREE today on the Apple App Store or Google Play. Betterhelp | Get 10% off your first month by visiting betterhelp.com/forthelove. Rothy’s | Check out all the amazing shoes—and bags! and masks!—available right now at Rothys.com/FORTHELOVE To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s a big day on For the Love, friends—we’re celebrating our 200th episode! We’re kicking off a brand-new series about food! And we’re celebrating it all with an FTL Fan Favorite: The Pioneer Woman herself, Ree Drummond! Ree’s back on the show to talk about the best (or tackiest?) sweatshirt of all time gifted to her by none other than Purveyor of Fine Sweatshirts, Jen Hatmaker. Jen and Ree talk about their favorite pastimes, potato chip sandwiches, what Ree makes when she’s just freaking tired of cooking (there may be a lot of jars involved), and the importance of a microwaved Ding Dong in a well-balanced diet. Not only does Ree show that cooking can be fun, she shares that it doesn’t have to be complicated and perfect—in fact, it’s probably better if it’s not. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Ancestry | Head to ancestry.com/forthelove to get your AncestryDNA kit and start your free trial Bloomscape | Get 15% off plant orders of $100 or more with promo code FORTHELOVE at bloomscape.com Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Join the sisterhood today! jenhatmakerbookclub.com To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Calling all book nerds! Are you looking for a place where your book-loving heart can flourish? Join us at jenhatmakerbookclub.com, and become one of our sisters in nerdiness. For January 2021, the Jen Hatmaker Book Club read the novel This Tender Land by the author extraordinaire William Kent Krueger. Chock full of intrigue and adventure and drama, this unforgettable story of four orphans who travel the Mississippi River on a life-changing journey during the Great Depression just absolutely transported us. During this episode, Kent dives into the real-life research behind the Lincoln Indian Training School, and how Mark Twain and The Odyssey played a huge role in shaping the story. Kent gives us a peek into the family that he created among the brave runaways and how their bond shifts as they heal together throughout the novel. *** Join the Jen Hatmaker Book Club sisterhood today! jenhatmakerbookclub.com *** Thank you to our sponsors! Audiobooks.com | Sign up for your FREE 30-day trial! Go to jenhatmaker.com/podcast, and find the audiobooks.com link in today's show notes Wagon Coffee | Save 10% off all of coffee choices with code FORTHELOVE at wagoncoffeeroasters.com To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Have you ever had a conversation with a friend or loved one where you couldn’t find common ground about something that fundamentally mattered to you? Is it possible for those relationships to continue, even though you don’t see eye to eye? Today we’re wrapping up our For the Love of Reconnecting series and talking about some of the hardest reconnecting of all: how to stay engaged with and even love someone who thinks differently from us. To guide us through this rocky terrain, we have Rozella Haydée White—AKA the Love Big Coach. Rozella is a theologian, a spiritual life-coach and a leadership consultant who guides people to give and receive love that is life-giving and justice-seeking. Rozella and Jen walk through what it means to lean into the hardest conversations and make space for yourself and the ones you love (or have a hard time loving). Rozella reminds us that, “If we believe that people are created in the image of God, then I don't really have a choice but to believe in people.” * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Noom | Sign up for your trial today at noom.com/forthelove KiwiCo | Get 30% off your first month at kiwico.com, promo code: FORTHELOVE ThirdLove | Get 20% off your first purchase at thirdlove.com/forthelove To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Over the past year, we’ve had to put our dreams on hold. We canceled vacations, missed family gatherings, and constantly wondered, How long will my life look like this? But those spaces in our calendars have given us the margin to think about what’s next for us. And as we continue our For the Love of Reconnecting series, we’re going to go out on a limb and thinking about what it looks like to reconnect with our dreams. And our next guest, Priyanka Chopra Jonas knows all about that. Priyanka’s a triple-threat: she’s an actor, a social activist, and now the author of a brand-new memoir called Unfinished. Jen and Priyanka trace Priyanka’s winding path from India to the US as a teen, and how she’s leaped with both feet into new projects and challenges and discovered that being willing to fail is an important part of leveling up and investing in ourselves. Jen and Priyanka dive into why it’s so important to normalize ambition in women and girls, and why putting boots on the ground is crucial to making our dreams a reality. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! American Giant | Get 15% your first order when you use promo code FORTHELOVE at american-giant.com Ancestry | Head to ancestry.com/forthelove to get your AncestryDNA kit and start your free trial Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Join the sisterhood today! jenhatmakerbookclub.com To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Get ready for a deep-dive into what it means to listen and connect with those around you with our next guest in the Reconnecting series: psychiatrist and executive coach Dr. Mark Goulston. As a former FBI hostage negotiation trainer, Dr. Goulston knows how to reach out to and connect with just about anyone. After the past twelve months, we’re all living on edge, and Dr. Goulston gives Jen a few communication tips to guide tense conversations toward calm. Plus, Dr. Goulston shows us how people are icebergs and why asking someone, “What’s really going on?” more than once helps us drill down and discover what the real problem is. And spoiler alert: when we vulnerably share what’s going on with us, and when someone listens and responds without judgment—whether we’re doing the sharing or the listening, true connection really does help us heal. And after 2020, we’re all due for a heavy dose of healing. * * * Thank you to our sponsors!Best Fiends | Download FREE on the Apple App Store or Google Play! BetterHelp | Start living a happier, healthier life – get 10% off your first month at http://betterhelp.com/forthelove Rothy’s | Check out all the amazing shoes, bags and masks available right now at http://rothys.com/forthelove To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Break out a pen and notebook, because today on For the Love, we’re going back to school with writer and professor Chris Stedman, our next guest in the For the Love of Reconnecting series. A former chaplain at Harvard and founding director of the Yale Humanist Community, Chris just wrote a fascinating book called IRL: Finding Realness, Meaning, and Belonging in Our Digital Lives. He’s a millennial who grew up fluent in the digital world but didn’t have a smartphone that tethered him to the internet until after his formative years, when a post he wrote went viral and steered him toward building a platform online. The internet of today is definitely not the one Chris grew up with—it’s no longer something we log in and out of. Chris and Jen talk about the beauty of finding and building community online and expanding our circles of belonging, but also why it’s so important to disconnect from tech every once in a while, because we discover things about ourselves in the silence of retreat that we may not see otherwise. And while sometimes the internet can seem like a place teeming with chaos, Chris reminds us that we have the power to choose how *we* engage with technology, that we control our devices—not the other way around. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Noom | Check out how to stay on a healthy track at https://noom.com/forthelove Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Join the sisterhood today! https://jenhatmakerbookclub.com To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

With so much discussion around finding different ways to connect in a season where literal physical connections are challenging at best, how do we address when our spiritual connections are faltering? How do we “feel seen” by God when things are not okay and our attitudes are washed in more doubt than belief? Writer Bunmi Laditan (also known by her online moniker, The Honest Toddler) joins For the Love to share her lifelong journey of wrestling with God and faith, and ultimately finding hope, acceptance, and love. The daughter of Nigerian immigrants, Bunmi ran away from home as a teen, seeking a home and faith that wouldn’t shackle her to rules and tradition. During her wanderings in both the spiritual and physical world, she explored relationships and different faith traditions before finally coming to know a core truth that has informed her ever since: God sees her and loves her—and He would come to meet her, no matter where her wandering took her. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! KiwiCo | Hands-on projects shipped right to your door! Get 30% off your first month plus FREE shipping on ANY crate line with code FORTHELOVE at https://www.kiwico.com/ ThirdLove | Find your perfect-fitting bra, and get 20% off your first purchase at https://thirdlove.com/forthelove BetterHelp | Take charge of your mental health—get 10% off your first month at https://betterhelp.com/forthelove To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s so hard to feel your feelings—especially when you have all of them all at once, and it’s never a convenient time to process them. For the past year, we’ve all been stewing with anxiety, stress, anger, loneliness, grief, and fear. Ignoring our hard feelings might seem like the easiest way to cope and get relief—but it’s not the only option available to us. Our next guest in our For the Love of Reconnecting Series, psychoanalyst and therapist Hilary Jacobs Hendel, reminds us that when we disconnect from our harder emotions, we disconnect from the life-giving ones too, like joy—and don’t we all need more of that right now?. Hilary’s the author of a fascinating book called It’s Not Always Depression (and psst: she consulted on the psychological development of characters in Mad Men!), and she and Jen talk about the freedom we find when we realize emotions just are, and we don’t have to judge them. In fact, instead of shutting down, Hilary shows us how we can walk ourselves toward self-compassion and healing, which gives us real resilience—not the kind that we *think* we have by stuffing down our feelings. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! American Giant | Get 100% American-made clothes that do good for local communities! Get 15% off with code FORTHELOVE at american-giant.com Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Join the sisterhood today! jenhatmakerbookclub.com Jen Hatmaker Merch | Get 20% off the entire site at jenhatmaker.com/shop To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Next up in our For the Love of Reconnecting series, we’re touching base with a very important and easy-to-lose-hold-of concept: our boundaries. If 2020 taught us anything, it’s how much setting boundaries impacts our life. So why do we feel guilty when we actually do set them? And when was the last time you took a second to think about what you need and what you have the capacity for? Therapist Nedra Glover Tawwab, author of the book Set Boundaries, Find Peace, walks us through how we draw these needed lines, and why it’s important for us to have them in the first place (spoiler alert: they’re crucial for our mental health and keep us away from resentment and burnout). It’s okay for us to ask for what we want and take charge of our own lives, even if some people don’t agree—because in the end, you really do know what’s best for you. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! 1| Best Fiends – Download FREE on the Apple App Store or Google Play 2| BetterHelp – Start living a happier, healthier life – get 10% off your first month at betterHelp.com/forthelove 3| Stamps.com – Never go to the Post Office again! Get a 4-week trial, PLUS free postage and a digital scale at Stamps.com, promo code FORTHELOVE To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sneak peek alert! Are you looking for a place where your book-loving heart can flourish? Look no further, and allow us to welcome you to the Jen Hatmaker Book Club. Want to join us? Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com, and become one of our sisters in nerdiness. This month, we read the oh-so-powerful Cleo McDougal Regrets Nothing by Allison Winn Scotch. Allison tells us why the #MeToo and TIME’S UP movements inspired her to write this story, plus we dive into how regrets can impact our lives and how they present an opportunity for amends and personal growth. We get to unpack Cleo’s engaging and fierce character, what it’s like to be a woman in this moment in time (and to be one in politics!), and how being unapologetically ambitious might mean you’re not liked. Allison walks us through how she crafted a character that doesn’t rub everyone the right way, but how we still end up rooting for Cleo anyway. By unpacking abuse of power, examining Cleo’s role as a mother, and watching her learn to confront her not-so-great decisions, Allison has woven a tale that captivates us and teaches us and inspires us to be leaders ourselves. *** Join the Jen Hatmaker Book Club sisterhood today! jenhatmakerbookclub.com *** Jen Hatmaker Merch – Get 20% off the entire site at jenhatmaker.com/shop To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

New year, new series! We’re thinking all about For the Love of Reconnecting, where we’ll try to get back in touch with who we are and what we value, so that we can start to inch forward in this brand-new year. What’s holding you back? Is there a real obstacle standing in the way of your growth—or is it just a story you’re telling yourself? Therapist, author, TED Talk superstar and podcast host Lori Gottlieb knows a thing or two about the stories we tell ourselves. In fact, Lori opens up her life in a deeply vulnerable way, taking us into the stories she told herself as a practicing therapist and how she moved past them in her New York Times bestselling memoir Maybe You Should Talk to Someone. Lori explains that we are the narrators of our own stories, and how we talk to ourselves and tell the story of our lives shapes who we will become. She asserts that when we begin to take responsibility for our choices and allow ourselves to examine what’s working in or lives and what we can tweak a little bit, we’ll begin to let go of the feeling of being trapped—and find a power in ourselves we never knew was there. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! BetterHelp | Take charge of your mental health—get 10% off your first month at https://betterhelp.com/forthelove To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We made it, you guys—we’re finally turning the corner into a brand-new year and into the hope of a fresh start. And while 2021 will no doubt have its set of challenges, we’ve set our minds to living in the moment while we wait for a post-pandemic world to settle in, thanks to inspiration from minister and activist Cece Jones-Davis. Cece was one of our favorite 2020 guests, and she’s back to lead us through a vigil on what we’ve walked through this year and reflect on all the beautiful things we have to look forward to. Cece reminds us that the weariness we feel from this year can be a powerful catalyst towards change for the better, and why 2021 can be the year of “Alive” (which happens to be the title of her brand-new worship album!). And here’s a little reminder for you, sister: as we enter a new chapter, remember that God is alive in you, and He has plans for hope and a future with your name written right on top. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! BetterHelp| Take charge of your mental health—get 10% off your first month at http://betterhelp.com/forthelove Noom | Check out how to stay on a healthy track at https://noom.com/forthelove Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Join the sisterhood! Visit www.jenhatmakerbookclub.com to sign up today. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s the most wonderful time of the year! But let’s be honest: if you’re a Hallmark Christmas Movie addict, it’s been the most wonderful time of the year since October, and you’re *not sorry* about it. And neither are Dan, Panda, and Bran—the 3 dudes behind the smash-hit podcast Deck the Hallmark. These Hallmark movie connoisseurs each have a different perspective: Bran loves them, Panda’s okay with them, and Dan hate-watches with all his might. Jen and the guys break down why these, let’s face it, “less than stellar production value-filled” shows are so addicting. AND are we ever surprised that the big-city girl falls for the small-town candlemaker who owns the snowy inn?! The group dishes on the best movies Hallmark has to offer (spoiler alert: The Fonz makes an appearance!), and which ones you desperately need to avoid. And to wrap this holiday episode in the most beautiful bow, the group signs off by divulging their fantasy cast and plot lines for the Hallmark movies of their dreams. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Solitaire Grand Harvest | Download the app for FREE in the Apple App Store, Google Play, & Amazon BetterHelp| Take charge of your mental health this holiday season—get 10% off your first month at http://betterhelp.com/forthelove Noom | Check out how to stay on a healthy track at https://noom.com/forthelove To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week, we’re wrapping up our celebration of small wins amid the 2020 dumpster fire, and we’re asking ourselves two questions: where we go from here, and how do we say yes what’s ahead? Savvy businesswoman and bubbly star of TLC’s Say Yes to the Dress: Atlanta Lori Allen has said yes to many things in her life: launching and running a successful bridal boutique for 40 years, fighting breast cancer, and managing the roles of wife, mom, grandmother, and daughter of aging parents. Lori and Jen break down how to push through resistance to change and breakthrough to accept the next yes, even when we don’t know what’s ahead. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! ThirdLove | Find your perfect-fitting bra, and get 10% off your first purchase at https://thirdlove.com/forthelove Thistle Farms | Find beautiful self-care gifts that are giving back! Use code FORTHELOVE to get 15% off the whole shop at www.thistlefarms.org Coupons.com | Get cash back for everyday items at the grocery store! Download the app for FREE today at the Apple App Store and Google Play! Rothy’s | Check out all the amazing shoes—and bags!—available right now at https://rothys.com/forthelove To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

“If my faith cannot offer me something in the wilderness moments, it isn’t worth having,” says Rev. Naomi Washington-Leapheart. And as we explore the silver linings of this turbulent year, Rev. Naomi’s wisdom is just what we need as we turn our thoughts to how our faith has held us up, stretched our empathy, and asked us to hold suffering and joy with both hands. As Philadelphia’s Director of the Mayor’s Office of Faith-Based and Interfaith Affairs, Rev. Naomi has spent the year trying to bring faith communities together with the goal of healing a hurting city. And for those who may not be able to see a way forward, Rev. Naomi reminds us that God is still right there, never leaving us alone. Because as she says, “we are always becoming,” meaning that even through the impossible, good can be brought out of any story—including the ones we never asked for. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Rothy’s | Check out all the amazing shoes—and bags!—available right now at https://rothys.com/forthelove Thistle Farms | Find beautiful self-care gifts that are giving back! Use code FORTHELOVE to get 15% off the whole shop at www.thistlefarms.org Ancestry | Don’t miss special holiday pricing on truly meaningful gifts during the Holiday Sale! Head to ancestry.com/forthelove BetterHelp | Take care of your mental health through the holidays—get 10% off your first month at http://betterhelp.com/forthelove **GIFT GUIDE ALERT** Making your holiday gift list and checking it twice? Need more ideas for unique, useful, or doing-good gifts? Check out all the goodies on the 4th Annual Edition of Jen’s Favorite Things Holiday Gift Guide! ➤ https://bit.ly/JensFavoriteThings2020 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sneak peek alert! Are you a bookie? Do you love reading and talking about what you’re reading? Then the Jen Hatmaker Book Club is where you belong. Want to join us? Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com, become one of the squad. This month, we read the fiercely feminine and delightful novel The Bookish Life of Nina Hill by the oh-so-talented Abbi Waxman. Abbi gives us a peek into her pleasurable work that’s truly the happy ending we need right now, because just like Nina, books are our escape. Abbi dives into what it was like to craft a character with ADHD and anxiety, and how she broke down that stigma, showing how preserving your mental health goes hand and hand with living a regular life. Abbi dives into what family issues can look like realistically, how the small moments can make the most spectacular relationship, and how dominating at trivia can give you a minute of triumph when you need it. *** Join the Jen Hatmaker Book Club sisterhood today! https://jenhatmakerbookclub.com *** Thank you to our sponsors! BetterHelp | Take charge of your mental health—get 10% off your first month at http://betterhelp.com/forthelove Duke Cannon | Find the perfect gifts for the men in your life—check out Duke Cannon’s grooming gift sets for only $20 each at Target! Coupons.com | Get groceries and get paid! Download the coupons.com app for FREE in the Apple app store or Google Play. Mrs. Fields | Get 20% off mouthwatering holiday sweets with code FORTHELOVE at https://www.mrsfields.com To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Joy and pain aren’t mutually exclusive; they mingle together in our stories every single day. That’s probably never been more true than in 2020. In these moments, we reach for guides who have traveled through some dark moments and come out the other side, and we couldn’t have a better teacher than writer, speaker, and self-proclaimed joyologist Dawn Barton. Pain and loss have been familiar companions to Dawn for a long time. She’s lost a baby daughter, and a sister to cancer. She’s suffered through sexual assault and walked her mother through recovery from an aneurysm, and her husband through alcohol addiction. Dawn has seen suffering, but she’s also realized that even in the middle of pain, you can experience full-fledged joy. Moments of hurt create opportunities for others to show up for us, and allow us to experience love in ways beyond what we ever thought possible (and sometimes scary times lead to hilarious ones, as Dawn found during her misadventures with a prosthetic breast named Lucky). Ultimately, our lives come full circle when we get to help someone else through their painful moments the way that others once helped us. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! KiwiCo | Go to https://kiwico.com, and use code FORTHELOVE to get 50% off your first month of project crates, plus FREE shipping! Feetures | Head to http://feetures.com/, and use code FORTHELOVE to get $10 off your first pair of cozy Feetures socks. Honey | Sign up for free at https://joinhoney.com/FORTHELOVE, and add gifts on your Droplist for a chance to win some cash! Duke Cannon | Find the perfect gifts for the men in your life—check out Duke Cannon’s grooming gift sets for only $20 each at Target! **GIFT GUIDE ALERT** Making your holiday gift list and checking it twice? Need more ideas for unique, useful, or doing-good gifts? Check out all the goodies on the 4th Annual Edition of Jen’s Favorite Things Holiday Gift Guide! ➤ https://bit.ly/JensFavoriteThings2020 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

2020 has shaken up so many of our beliefs. What’s normal? What’s safe? What does it look like for our families and our communities to thrive? These are life-changing questions, and today’s guest is someone who has been searching for the answers to these very questions for nearly two decades. Diana Oestreich was an American soldier in Iraq who received orders to keep her convoy rolling at all costs, even if children crossed her path. And in that gut-wrenching moment, Diana decided she couldn’t follow those orders, and she would fight for peace with sacrifice instead of bullets. Today Diana “wages peace” with love and justice alongside the organization Preemptive Love, and she and Jen talk about who the true heroes are, and how everything changes in our world when we choose to build bridges instead of walls. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! FabFitFun | Order your Winter box today! Use coupon code FTL for $10 off your first box at www.fabfitfun.com #fabfitfunpartner BetterHelp | Take care of your mental health this holiday season—get 10% off your first month at http://betterhelp.com/forthelove Stamps.com | Need to send out those Christmas cards? Get a 4-week trial, plus FREE postage and a digital scale at https://stamps.com with code FORTHELOVE Ancestry | So don’t miss special holiday pricing on truly meaningful gifts during the Holiday Sale! Head to ancestry.com/forthelove **GIFT GUIDE ALERT** Making your holiday gift list and checking it twice? Need more ideas for unique, useful, or doing-good gifts? Check out all the goodies on the 4th Annual Edition of Jen’s Favorite Things Holiday Gift Guide! ➤ https://bit.ly/JensFavoriteThings2020 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Do you know who has a PhD in Small Wins? We do, because this week on the show we have The Lazy Genius, AKA the brilliant and delightful Kendra Adachi! Kendra is the woman who brought the Tim Riggins Salad and Change Your Life Chicken to the internet, and she is about to change our lives far beyond the fridge (though fun fact: that chicken is delicious). Kendra’s going to give us a treasure trove of pro tips, like the beauty of 17-minute naps and the stress-reducing way to clean up our kitchens (hint: zones, people—it’s all about the zones!). As a recovering perfectionist, Kendra’s learned how to strike the middle ground between “It has to be perfect!” and “Meh, I don’t care anymore.” She shows us how to care about what matters and let the rest go, because let’s be real: there’s just too much for us to care about everything. Plus, for all the Enneagram 1s and Type-As out there, Kendra reminds us that even if our plans are upended, it doesn’t mean our plans were wrong—it just means that life happened, and we’ll be okay. And stay till the end for Jen and Kendra’s Hamilton love fest as they look around, look around at how lucky we are to be alive right now in a world with Lin Manuel-Miranda and Disney+! * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Solitaire Grand Harvest | Download the app for FREE in the Apple App Store, Google Play, & Amazon Framebridge | Frame your photos and send the perfect gift! Get 15% off your first order at www.framebridge.com with code FORTHELOVE Stamps.com | Skip the post office lines this holiday season! Get a 4-week trial, plus FREE postage and a digital scale at https://stamps.com with code FORTHELOVE Ancestry | Don’t miss special holiday pricing on truly meaningful gifts during the Holiday Sale at Ancestry! Head to ancestry.com/forthelove **GIFT GUIDE ALERT** Making your holiday gift list and checking it twice? Need more ideas for unique, useful, or doing-good gifts? Check out all the goodies on the 4th Annual Edition of Jen’s Favorite Things Holiday Gift Guide! ➤ https://bit.ly/JensFavoriteThings2020 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s the most wonderful time of the year—gift guide time! We're going to go ahead and give 2020 the No, Thank You Award, but we can still try to make the holidays merry and bright. And to help you do that, we bring you the 4th installment of Jen’s Favorite Things! Every year, we shine a spotlight on brands we love that also give back, so we do the most good with the dollars we're already going to spend (and PS: so many of these companies are women-owned!). So grab a cup of cocoa while Jen and her sisters, Lindsay and Cortney, share 12 incredible companies with amazing products—everything from coffee and candles to comfy robes and socks and Jen’s signature feather earrings. Plus, each brand has a special offer just for you, so you can stock up on great gifts and also *save some cash.* Look alive, campers, it’s time to do some Christmas shopping! Psst: We’ve taken notes so you don’t have to! Head over to jenhatmaker.com/podcast for a one-stop shop of all the companies, products, and offers mentioned on the show. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On the road to finding small wins, it’s helpful to watch for the “green lights” in our lives—those signals that indicate we can move forward when we see them—but also recognize and appreciate the yellows and reds that slow us down so we can take a second to absorb what life is teaching us. Academy Award-winning actor, minister of culture, and self-proclaimed pickle expert Matthew McConaughey is a man who’s had a few green lights show up over the course of his career (along with a few reds and yellows, he admits). He shares about it all in his new book, Greenlights, where he describes (in an oh-so-McConaughey way) his “sights and seens, felts and figured-outs, cools and shamefuls.” Matthew points out that green lights illuminate our way through the choices we make, and challenge us to ask some bigger questions: Are you living in the present? Are you being kind? Are you enjoying both freedom and responsibility? Matthew gives us a sneak peek into his motivation for writing Greenlights, and tells us about important women in his life who shaped and supported him all along the way. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Noom |Check out how to stay on a healthy track at https://noom.com/forthelove BetterHelp | Take charge of your mental health—get 10% off your first month at http://betterhelp.com/forthelove KiwiCo | Go to https://kiwico.com, and use code FORTHELOVE to get 50% off your first month of project crates, plus FREE shipping! Stamps.com | Skip the post office lines this holiday season by visiting https://stamps.com, and get a 4-week trial PLUS free postage and a digital scale with code FORTHELOVE. **Gift Guide Alert!** Making your holiday gift list and checking it twice? Need more ideas for unique, useful, or doing-good gifts? Look for Jen’s super-special annual Gift Guide Episode, popping into your feed on Monday, November 16! To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Right now, we all need some small wins. And in our brand-new series called—wait for it—For the Love of Small Wins, we’re talking to thought leaders who remind us to look for the ways kindness and resilience has showed up in our lives this year. First up, author and life coach Valorie Burton knows all about something we each struggle with: guilt. She knows what it looks like, how it can disguise itself, and how ingrained it is in our daily lives. Valorie helps us identify the difference between authentic and false guilt, and walks us through the different types of guilt we experience, especially in 2020: mom/daughter/friend guilt, guilt for not doing more or better, guilt for not being involved enough in the causes happening around us. Valerie gives us the tools to begin to let go of guilt, so we can take the first step on our journey to appreciating the small wins of 2020 * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Rothy’s | Check out all the amazing shoes—and bags!—available right now at https://rothys.com/forthelove ThirdLove | Find your perfect-fitting bra, and get 10% off your first purchase at https://thirdlove.com/forthelove Feetures | Go to http://feetures.com/, and use code FORTHELOVE to get $10 off your first pair of Feetures **Gift Guide Alert!** Making your holiday gift list and checking it twice? Need more ideas for unique, useful, or doing-good gifts? Look for Jen’s super-special annual Gift Guide Episode, popping into your feed on Monday, November 16! To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Want a sneak peek into the book club of your dreams? Then allow us to present: the Jen Hatmaker Book Club! From time to time, we’ll drop in with what we’re reading in hopes you’ll join us at jenhatmakerbookclub.com—because we *know* you’ll love it. We had to bring this one out of the vault, because we are the biggest fans of NYT bestselling author—and now TV and podcast host—Kelly Corrigan! Kelly’s memoir Tell Me More was the first book we chose to read in the Jen Hatmaker Book Club back in June 2019, because Kelly has a knack for taking a magnifying glass to the phrases that create connection between us (like “I don’t know,” “I was wrong,” and “Good enough”) and showing us why they matter, all with her signature humor and warmth. If you’ve never met Kelly, get ready: you’re about to meet your new favorite. And while you’re at it, check out Kelly’s brand-new projects: a podcast called Kelly Corrigan’s Wonders and a new interview series on PBS called—wait for it—Tell Me More! * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Ancestry | Get your AncestryDNA kit and start your free trial at ancestry.com/forthelove Jen’s FREE Merch | Be free—check out the collection at jenhatmaker.com/shop Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Join our sisterhood today at jenhatmakerbookclub.com To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

To be Black in America means living at several different intersections. Writer and thinker Marcie Alvis-Walker joins For the Love Podcast to share the inspiration behind her beautiful, thought-provoking space called Black Coffee with White Friends. Marcie shares about her experience having to code switch as she grew up—she’d have to adapt her language, her likes and dislikes based on the group she was with—and what it’s like for her family to navigate the world being members of different races. Marcie leads us to think about what it means to “celebrate” holidays like 4th of July, Memorial Day, and Columbus Day when your skin isn’t white, and how siblings of different races can use their influence to help their Black siblings. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! BetterHelp | Take charge of your mental health—get 10% off your first month at http://betterhelp.com/forthelove Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Join the sisterhood at jenhatmakerbookclub.com FabFitFun | Use coupon code FTL for $10 off your first box at https://fabfitfun.com/ #fabfitfunpartner To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On this bonus episode of For the Love, we’re talking about a heartwarming new movie (based on a true story!) called “2 Hearts” with organ donor recipient and advocate Michael Kutcher. He’s a walking miracle shares his journey of receiving a heart transplant 29 years ago, and the profound ways the gift of organ donation not only gave him life—it impacted generations, as Michael is a proud father today. Michael and Jen talk about the beautiful parallels between Michael’s story and the “2 Hearts” movie, a true story of two couples who were never supposed to meet, but through love and generosity, they end up making waves in the world. * * * Thank you to our sponsor! Honey | Get online savings, simplified. Download Honey for FREE today at http://joinhoney.com/forthelove To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Stories come in many forms: in the reports we see in the news, the TV shows and movies that light up our screens, from books to toys and so many other places. New York Times bestselling author Brit Bennett is here to discuss the ways that Black stories are told and the ripple effects they have across American culture. She shares insight into her life as a young author and how she’s used her writing as a way to figure out the way she feels about different topics—like what it means to “perform race,” which she wrote about in her latest book called The Vanishing Half. Brit dives into the stories she’s looking to create in the world—ones that show the human experience of what it means to struggle and the ways we experience hope and joy and love. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Noom | Sign up for your trial at http://noom.com/forthelove ThirdLove | Find your perfect-fitting bra, and get 10% off your first purchase at https://thirdlove.com/forthelove Feetures |Go to http://feetures.com/, and use code FORTHELOVE to get $10 off your first pair of Feetures To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What does it mean to build the world in a way where every single person, no matter their color, gender, ability or religion has access to security and opportunity? That’s a question inventor and entrepreneur Jessica O. Matthews has spent much of her life asking. Jessica is the CEO of Uncharted Power, a company looking to build sustainable infrastructure in the world—which Jessica launched when she was just twenty-two years old! She shares the legacy of curiosity and hard work her parents passed onto her, and why having countless hmm moments leads to that one a-ha! moment. Jessica and Jen hash out the opportunities the world has left on the table of innovation and why Jessica’s place at several intersections—a Black woman who’s a dual US/Nigerian citizen—helps her recognize developments that are still possible for parts of the world that typically don’t receive investment. Because as Jessica says: “I have the ability to not see the world as it is but to see the world as it should be. That's something that would not have happened not only if I wasn't just Nigerian American, but if I wasn't a woman of color.” * * * Thank you to our sponsors! BetterHelp | Take charge of your mental health—get 10% off your first month at http://betterhelp.com/forthelove KiwiCo | Get 30% off your first month plus FREE shipping on any crate line at https://kiwico.com/forthelove “2 Hearts” movie | Mark your calendar—“2 Hearts” is in theaters only nationwide on October 16! https://2heartsthefilm.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Having access to learning is a portal to opportunity, a key to unlocking your dreams and leaving doors open for those who come after you. That’s what education has been for Dr. Monique Morris, an author, scholar, justice educator and die-hard Prince fan who, in sixth grade, found herself at a fork in the road. She got into a fight with a boy who’d provoked her. And instead of suspending her, expelling her, or arresting her and pushing her away, Dr. Morris’ teachers reconnected her to her learning community—a key moment in the life of a girl who’d been dealing with sexual abuse and violence in her home. This moment of restoration paved the path for Dr. Morris to go on to earn a doctorate in education. Others in Dr. Morris’ situation haven’t been as fortunate, and find their studies interrupted by disciplinary action and a descent down the slippery slope known commonly as the “school to prison pipeline,” where they are pushed out of the education experience and criminalized by administrators. Dr. Morris uses her own education and experience to advocate for Black and brown students, encouraging schools to look at themselves as places of healing and restoration, not punishment, so that more students of color can become the scholars they are meant to be. Because no person is “unrecoverable,” and the important“freedom work of education begins when teachers ultimately see themselves as healers. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Rothy’s | Check out all the amazing shoes and bags available right now at http://rothys.com/forthelove Jenni Kayne | Get 20 percent off your first order! Go to http://jennikayne.com/, enter code FORTHELOVE at checkout. “2 Hearts” film | Only in theaters October 16! https://2heartsthefilm.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Want a sneak peek into the book club of your dreams? Then allow us to present: the Jen Hatmaker Book Club! From time to time, we’ll drop in with what we’re reading in hopes you’ll join us at jenhatmakerbookclub.com—because we *know* you’ll love it. This month, we read the gorgeous bestselling novel The Storyteller’s Secret by lawyer-turned-writer Sejal Badani. Sejal gives us a behind the scenes look at what it was like to write a fiction story that’s deeply rooted in her own family history, and how examining the lives of her ancestors helped unravel her emotions about her own upbringing. What began as a way to break free from family secret-keeping became a way for Sejal to explain her heritage and history to her children. Writing Storyteller also became a method of healing, and Sejal shares how exposing the most vulnerable parts of who we are can help create a better world for someone else. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! BetterHelp | Take charge of your mental health—get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove Jen’s Fierce Mask | Get the cutest mask ever at jenhatmaker.com/shop Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Join our sisterhood today at jenhatmakerbookclub.com To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Cultivating a healthy mind is essential for our entire well-being. Psychologist and theologian Dr. Chanequa Walker-Barnes joins us For the Love of Black Lives series to help us unpack how the anxiety and trauma carried through generations of Black Americans affects the flourishing of communities of every stripe (and newsflash: the trauma we experience can be passed down through four generations after us). For so long, Black women have been praised as “strong,” and they absolutely are. But when we only view Black women as unshakeable “superwomen,” we take away their right to vulnerability, their right to care for themselves, and their right to be cared for by someone else. And instead, we hand them a standard that’s impossible to achieve—which, as anyone knows who’s tried to achieve something that can’t be attained, causes shame and depression. Dr. Chanequa describes the effects of living in a community where anxiety is normal for everyone. As she says, “I was never taught to think of what I had as anxiety, even though now I realize, on both sides of my family, there’s anxiety.” She explains why it’s vital for Black women and men to have access to Black mental healthcare providers, so clients can feel truly seen and heard, and receive the true care they need. And above all, Dr. Chanequa reminds us that every Black woman, child, and man is worthy of self-care. They are worthy to notice and treat their pain and anxiety, so they can flourish in wholeness. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! BetterHelp | Take charge of your mental health—get 10% off your first month at http://betterhelp.com/forthelove Laurel Springs | Register your child at laurelsprings.com/forthelove today and receive a waived registration fee Stamps.com | Start your 4-week trial, plus free postage and a digital scale without a long-term commitment! Go to stamps.com, enter FORTHELOVE To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Black culture is central to American culture—we simply don’t have America without having the Black experience, born of slavery and systemic racism and white supremacy, of physical and mental and emotional pain. But through generations, Black women and men have passed down stories given from their mothers and grandmothers. They’ve cooked and sang and danced and played the most beautiful music. They’ve wrote and dreamed and created. Black culture has inspired us for hundreds of years as it has woven its way into the tapestry of American life. And today, we’re going to talk about the richness of it all with Dr. Tanisha C. Ford, a cultural critic and professor of history at CUNY. Dr. Ford shares the artists and icons that shaped her world as a young Black woman growing up (everyone from her own mother and her leather jackets, to the music of Aretha Franklin and TLC, Roberta Flack and Mary J. Blige). Dr. Ford shows us how looking deeply at culture helps us see the threads of politics and society woven within. We learn why cultural appropriation is tied to systems of exploitation. We see why we need to shift our eyes away from history books that haven’t centered important Black pioneers like Anna Julia Cooper and Ida B. Wells, why everyone needs to read words from thinkers like James Baldwin and Audre Lorde. We see how Shirley Chisholm paved the way for Kamala Harris. We see the beauty and strength of artists like Nina Simone and Billie Holiday, and how they birth artists like Alicia Keys and Janelle Monáe. And through it all we see how new forms of technology have carried Black voices to new corners of the world for decades, planing the seeds for social media to blossom into a powerful force for the change that we’re seeing today. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Author School | Reserve your spot today at https://authorschool.com/jenhatmaker Noom | Sign up for your trial at http://noom.com/forthelove Jenni Kayne | Get 20% off your first order! Go to https://jennikayne.com, promo code FORTHELOVE FabFitFun | Use coupon code FTL for $10 off your first box at https://fabfitfun.com #fabfitfunpartner To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Though many of our country’s systems of care desperately need an overhaul, there’s one system in particular that could improve greatly to help Black Americans: healthcare. It might be unimaginable that we might get lesser care, for example, if we found ourselves in a medical emergency or were giving birth to our child. But Black women and men find themselves in these situations often, where healthcare professionals aren’t listening to their needs or taking time to understand their health concerns, and this sometimes leads to disastrous consequences—even death. These healthcare gaps are part of a feedback loop where many Black Americans find themselves. Many times, it starts with a huge imbalance in economic resources, which leads to a lack of access to healthy food, gyms, nutritional education, and as our guest today says, “places that are considered well.” Christina M. Rice is a wellness expert and chief experience officer of OMNoire, a social wellness community for Black women and women of color dedicated to living well. Christina shares about her own wellness experiences as a Black woman, and how finding yoga helped her realize the need for wellness spaces where Black women and women of color feel seen and welcome. Christina describes why it’s so important for everyone to prioritize the health of Black women and men. Tackling healthcare inequity may be daunting, but siblings everywhere must speak up and do our part to amplify voices of color so that Black bodies are allowed to flourish. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Author School | Reserve your spot today at https://authorschool.com/jenhatmaker BetterHelp | Take charge of your mental health—get 10% off your first month at http://betterhelp.com/forthelove Jen Hatmaker’s FIERCE Mask | Get yours right now at https://jenhatmaker.com/shop KiwiCo | Get 30% off your first month—plus FREE shipping on any crate line—at http://kiwico.com/forthelove To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

God created a beautiful world, filled with people who share love, creativity, friendship and hope in all kinds of ways. For thousands of years, some have tried to use religion to wield power and authority over people around the globe, claiming “their” way was the “right” way to gain access to God. That’s how the seeds of religious trauma are sown. And through generations, we’ve seen members of the white American Christan church push Black and brown people away from the center of the church’s stories in an attempt to gain control over those cultures. But as justice educator and equity consultant Alicia Crosby reminds us, we gain so much when we center stories that have been pushed to the margins, when we allow ourselves to be curious about ourselves and other cultures. Alicia shares her own history in the church as a Black queer woman, and how, after her “burn it all down” phase, she’s learned to embrace the beauty of who she is and how she chooses to express her faith in God’s love for her. Jen and Alicia dive into why it’s important to create protective spaces for affinity groups of all kinds (everything from parents, to race and cultural groups, to LGBTQ+ spaces), and why sitting down at the table is the most equalizing force in our universe. * * * Thank you to our episode sponsors! Author School | Reserve your spot today at authorschool.com/jenhatmaker Rothy’s | Check out all the amazing shoes and bags available right now at rothys.com/forthelove ThirdLove | Go to thirdlove.com/forthelove to find your perfect-fitting bra, and get 15% off your first purchase! Jen Hatmaker’s FIERCE Mask | Get yours right now at jenhatmaker.com/shop To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Want a sneak peek into the book club of your dreams? Then allow us to present: the Jen Hatmaker Book Club! From time to time, we’ll drop in with what we’re reading in hopes you’ll join us at jenhatmakerbookclub.com—because we *know* you’ll love it. This month's book has been an over-the-top experience for all of us. We read No Happy Endings by Nora McInerny, and it’s resonated from top to bottom in our community. Nora makes a living talking to people about life's hardest moments, and she speaks from experience. She lost her second baby, her father, and her young husband over the course of six weeks when she was 31 years old. Yet, she’s chosen to channel her grief into two bestselling memoirs and a stellar podcast called Terrible, Thanks for Asking. She’s a master storyteller who brings heart, transparency, and even levity to the most difficult and uncomfortable conversations that most of us spend our lives trying to avoid. And through it all, Nora’s a reliable, trustworthy guide as we journey along our own suffering and grief and loss. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! BetterHelp | Take charge of your mental health—get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove Stamps.com | Start your 4-week trial and get a 4-week trial, plus free postage and a digital scale without a long-term commitment! Go to stamps.com, enter FORTHELOVE. Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Join our sisterhood today at jenhatmakerbookclub.com To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As lawyer and activist Bryan Stevenson puts it, slavery never actually ended—it just evolved, and today it looks like mass incarceration. In the past fifty years, we’ve seen the prison population skyrocket from 200,000 in 1970 to 2.2 million in 2020. In fact, America holds just 5% of the world’s population but more than 25% of the world’s prisoners, where the Black population clock in five times the rate of inmates as the white population. It is imperative that our generation abolish the overcriminalization of Black women, children, and men. And today we’re learning a bit more from CeCe Jones-Davis on how to bring that world to fruition. She’s an activist, a worship leader, and a teacher of social gospel who’s made it her mission to expose the underbelly of the US criminal justice system as she fights for the freedom of a man she believes has been wrongfully convicted: Julius Jones. CeCe also shares the influences who showed her the way toward pursuing justice and life experiences that broke her heart and gave her a passion to advocate for others. CeCe reminds us that realigning the gears of the justice system is too big a task for one person to bear alone—but if we each pick up our small piece, it’s a load we can carry together. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Noom |Start your trial today at noom.com/forthelove Ancestry | Get your AncestryDNA kit and start your free trial at ancestry.com/fortheloveBetterHelp | Take charge of your mental health—get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today we open a new chapter of For the Love, where we’ll celebrate the beauty, wholeness, and dignity of Black Lives. At the same time, we’ll also explore the roots of the recent growing advocacy and racial reckoning with experts who will guide us through different facets of what it’s like to be Black in America—in education, health, culture, the church. We’ll unpack how the Black experience differs from the white experience, with true understanding of the gaps in these collective experiences becoming the catalyst for necessary change. Leading off this series is Alencia Johnson, who is the chief impact officer and founder of 1063 West Broad, a company focusing on social impact, brand engagement, and communication strategy (you may remember Alencia from the #sharethemicnow campaign, when she took over Jen’s Instagram to share some deep truths). Alencia helps us examine the intersectionality of racism and gender as she unspools more than 400 years of Black oppression in America, and helps us examine what our country could look like if we invested in the safety and health of ALL communities. Alencia longs to see action behind the words of those who have actual power to create change, and challenges us to implement that change swiftly to systems that uphold racism—and most importantly, sustain the change. Tackling some hard-hitting topics, Alencia touches on white fragility, voter suppression, and what “defunding the police” really means as she helps us imagine how our actions toward these problems might mirror the actions of an aggrieved, change-making, table-flipping Jesus in such a time as this. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! LAUREL SPRINGS | Register your child at laurelsprings.com/forthelove today and receive a waived registration fee. ANCESTRY| Head to ancestry.com/forthelove to get your AncestryDNA kit and start your free trial. CAMANO ISLAND COFFEE|Sign up for your Coffee Lover’s Membership, and get $20 off your first shipment at camanoislandcoffee.com/forthelove. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Since journalist (and now podcaster!) Jeff Chu came on the show in spring of 2019, we haven’t forgotten his poignant storytelling or his answer to the powerful question he’s asked himself since he was a kid: “Does Jesus really love me?” Jeff grew up immersed in a family of theologians, where knowing and sticking to the Bible’s rules were prized currency. As Jeff approached high school, he realized he was gay. Over time, while he prayed for God to change who he was, Jeff threw himself into his work to escape his inner turmoil and realized he was a gifted storyteller who loved talking with people from all walks of life. A few years ago, Jeff found himself on the road, searching for the answer to his long-held question across America as he interviewed everyone from nice church ladies to members of the Westboro Baptist Church. And as he talked to more and more people about their spiritual beliefs, he concluded that, yes—even though Jeff doesn’t feel like it some days—Jesus really does love us all. And if we actually believed He did, we would speak differently, tweet differently, love differently—in a nutshell, believing we’re loved would transform our lives. And don’t forget to check out Jeff’s brand-new podcast called “Evolving Faith,” which he’s co-hosting with FTL fan favorite Sarah Bessey! * * * Thank you to our sponsors! FabFitFun | Use coupon code “FTL” for $10 off your first box at fabfitfun.com #fabfitfunpartner BetterHelp |Take charge of your mental health—get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove Camano Island Coffee | Sign up for the Coffee Lovers Membership and get $20 off your first shipment at camanoislandcoffee.com/forthelove To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices