For The Love With Jen Hatmaker Podcast

2020’s Faith series has brought us incredible leaders across decades, generations, denominations, and ideologies. We've listened to what makes them excited to be in the faith right now and what's been challenging. We've talked about ways to build a brighter, more beautiful church. As we wrap this series, we're going to dig in a little deeper to one specific place, and we’ve enlisted three faith leaders to help us navigate through a much-needed discussion. And these faith leaders are members of the LGBTQ+ community—because it is possible to be a part of a church that is passionate about Jesus and affirming to LGBTQ+ groups. Matthew Vines is the founder of the Reformation Project, a nonprofit that educates Christians about the biblical case for LGBTQ+ inclusion. He's also the author of “God and the Gay Christian: The Biblical Case in Support of Same-Sex Relationships.” Michael Vazquez is the director of the Human Rights Campaign Foundation's Religion and Faith Program in DC. He leads efforts there to advance equity initiatives in faith communities. B.T. Harman is a content creator and speaker. His blog and podcast “Blue Babies Pink” shed some beautiful light on what it is like to love Jesus, love the church, and be gay. Each of these men has deep commitment to their faith and to the church, and during their formative years, they had to reckon with the truth that they were gay—and they experienced the full spectrum of pain and discovery that so often comes with this particular journey. Today we ask some hard questions: what does it mean to hold one another and our faith leaders accountable? And when it comes to affirmation, what's public and what's private? How can we be the best allies for our LGBTQ+ friends? How can we listen and avoid “canceling” one another if we don’t agree, or are there times when it’s called for? Our conversation is fully open, filled with grace and understanding, helping us to view things from different perspectives in the most rewarding way possible. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Our guest in this continuation of our For the Love of Faith Icons series has conducted his faith leadership through a lens of love, sacrifice and goodness. Bishop Michael Curry is here to share his ideologies behind faith and what it means to live a life looking at Jesus. You’ve probably already heard of him without even knowing it: Bishop Curry had the honor of preaching at Meghan Markle and Prince Harry’s wedding. Of course, we had to ask him how he kept calm during that AMAZING moment, and he’ll share a bit about that, but the heart of what he’s here to say in this episode all comes down to one simple concept: love. The kind of love that he says “must move beyond being a sentiment to becoming a commitment—a commitment to seek the good and the welfare and the well-being of others as well as the self.” The kind of love that truly reflects the love of God. Bishop Curry provides a glimmer of hope in recognizing that even though we all tend toward vanity and selfishness, the desire to do good—the desire to seek God’s will—will propel us to love Him, love people and love ourselves. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Our For the Love of Faith Icons series wouldn’t be complete without one of Jen’s longtime inspirations and mentors: Beth Moore. After four decades of leadership as an author, speaker, and teacher, Beth has seen a lot and come through a lot, but she gracefully continues to be a relevant voice to new generations of women, helping them navigate the opportunities that have opened up for them, and leading them to push back against old challenges that persistently remain. It might appear that a faith icon as strong as Beth might herself be inoculated from faith crises—after all, her humor and thoughtful perspective have guided us through the valleys of our own faith for years. But she vulnerably admits that she never feels like she can get completely free from the “rocks” in her own life, which she explores in her new book Chasing Vines. Her beautiful analogies to the vineyard underscore her belief that no matter how rocky the soil we may find ourselves planted in, God has us there—and that soil will ultimately be fertile. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Our For the Love of Faith Icons series is going strong, and this week we’re diving into an issue we’ve probably all struggled with: how to act like a Christian when we’re riled up about our political views. Without even knowing it, each of us has likely been guilty of having the “I’m-right-and-everybody-who-doesn’t-agree-with-me-is-crazy” attitude when it comes to politics. And today, we’re here to get a little help on how we can engage in politics with civility and openness not only as believers, but as good citizens in general. Eugene Cho, the founder of Quest Church and the non-profit One Day’s Wages, gives his pastoral view on how, if we can keep loving God and loving others as our guiding principles, we’ll be better equipped to engage in civil and productive conversations (and PS: it won’t send us spiraling down to political/moral ruin to listen to a contrary opinion). Cho emphasizes that when we surround ourselves with people who don’t look, think, feel, or vote like us, we are following Jesus’ commandment to “love our neighbor.” And it matters how we engage, Cho reminds us, because “politics matter. Because politics inform policies that impact real human people created in the image of God.” To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Are y’all ready to go to church? Because in this episode of our For the Love of Faith Icons series, author and activist Lisa Sharon Harper graces us once again with her singular wisdom and fire—and we are here. for. it. Lisa shares what’s been going on in her work since she appeared on the award-winning episode in 2018 that everyone is still talking about. She helps us make sense of the innumerable tensions we see in the world right now between different communities and shines a light on the “narrative gap” that exists in our world: how one story affirms the experience of the powerful few, and another recognizes the dignity and worth of every single person in the world, including those on the margin. Lest we lose hope, Lisa shares a solution on the way reconnection can close this gap and calls us all to be as we were created to be: a “radically, interdependent web of love.” To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s full steam ahead in For the Love of Faith Icons, and listen—grab your pens and your Kleenexes, because Jen’s dear friend Patsy Clairmont is equal parts wisdom and pure sunshine (and we want her to adopt us). A beloved speaker and author, Patsy is a founding member of the Women of Faith conferences, which Jen credits as changing the way she thought about women in ministry (Christian women can be *gasp* funny!). Patsy knows a thing or two about opening up and sharing from her own lived experiences to help someone else. Today she tells us about her dark days battling with agoraphobia and how, when she determined to change her mindset, she was able to step out of her house and onto dozens of stages a year to impact countless lives. And for those of us wondering how we can begin to make a difference in our world, Patsy gently pushes us to keep our eyes open, to flex our empathy muscles, and to be around people who are different from us—because what’s when we remember, as she says, “the pure thrill of being alive.” To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Our “For the Love of Faith Icons” series continues with another leader who hails from a famous evangelical family and has blazed a trail to a new understanding of Christianity and where the Bible fits in: pastor, writer and speaker Andy Stanley. As he grew up as a preacher’s kid of a man who has iconic status in his own right, Dr. Charles Stanley, Andy was encouraged to find his own way to God and to ask hard questions without fear of recrimination. This freedom ultimately steered Andy into his own ministry, and he is still asking the hard questions on behalf of thousands of people who attend services across 6 campuses at Atlanta’s North Point Church, the 2nd largest church in the U.S. Andy and Jen discuss how folks who have been burned by the church or who are just burned out in their faith can take a step back toward Jesus and shed their religious baggage by realizing the basis of our faith is an event (the resurrection) and a person (Jesus), not just a book of rules. They also agree that the ancient truth of the Bible can stand up to our toughest questions and that curiosity and faith really can go hand in hand. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s a brand-new year, a brand-new decade—and a brand-new series! “For the Love of Faith Icons” finds Jen talking to some of the most well-loved leaders in the faith, the kinds of folks who have had a chance to see themselves and the world evolve spiritually, and who can handle our biggest questions while admitting they have their own. We couldn’t be more pleased to start off these inspiring and thought-provoking discussions with none other than the beloved pastor and speaker Max Lucado. For decades, Max has been leading us with warmth and good humor, gently asking us to think about who we are in the world as people of faith and what we’re striving to represent, especially in these divisive times. Max and Jen talk about some of the biggest issues on our minds—namely, what unity can look like among different groups who disagree with one another among believers and non-believers alike. Max implores us to work together to communicate, to love one another, and to model this for others. As Max says, “We can be respectful. We do not have the right to be arrogant and to point a finger. Of all the people who should not be arrogant it is those of us who believe we are saved by grace.” To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Christmas holds so many truths all at once, as it has for thousands of years. And today, Jen’s friend, pastor Nadia Bolz-Weber, leads us to look with several new lenses at the story we’ve heard since we were toddling around in snowman footie pajamas. There’s the beauty of a young family shepherding a new life into the world, amid brutal oppression from a power-hungry empire. There’s the unwed teenage girl who’s told she will carry the savior of the world while a disdainful religious culture watches her belly swell. Through it all, we get a glimpse at Mary’s fierce desire to honor her Creator, and the tremendous power held in the way she accepts this divine assignment. As Nadia takes us through the Christmas story, she points out how God moves through the world by turning the notions of “power” and “blessing” upside down while lifting up the voiceless and the oppressed, reminding us that “being ‘blessed’ means seeing God in the world and trusting that God is at work even in things we can't see, understand, or imagine.” To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As we continue the conversation about finishing strong for the year, we tap into a resource who clearly maps out a way we all can live happier and with more intention. Our friend Dave Hollis (husband to our other friend, Rachel!) had his dream job as president of distribution for The Walt Disney Company, where he worked 17 years. At the top of his game, Dave left Disney and moved with his family to Austin to form The Hollis Company, so he and Rachel could continue helping people live better lives. This move also began Dave’s personal journey to find his true purpose. Dave pulls no punches as he lays down his thoughts on finishing strong, based on hard lessons he’s learned as he’s left comfort zones, chosen to be vulnerable and tossed aside worrying what others think of him. As you might have guessed, this took Dave a bit of deliberation, forced reflection and a lot of sweat, but he assures us the results are worth it. Dave gives us paths toward gratitude and steps toward making meaningful changes in our lives that are as simple as recognizing what brings us joy and what doesn’t, and saying “yes” to the joy-giving things more often. As Dave says, “If you go on the hunt for gratitude every day, you will find evidence of it, and you will have a life that is full and different because of it.” To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re kicking it with a legend today on our series For the Love of Finishing Strong: Olympic gold medalist and FIFA World Cup champ (and Jen’s good friend) Abby Wambach! Abby shares her road to soccer stardom and the lessons she picked up from great leaders along the way—like her coach Pia Sundhage, who showed Abby how powerful and holistic feminine leadership can be. Abby takes us on a journey through her life post-soccer and how she’s using structure and discipline in new ways to help her meet her goals. Together with her wife Glennon Doyle and their Wolfpack, Abby is showing the world what it looks like to bring your full, authentic, and vulnerable self to leadership and why it’s important to make sure everyone in the room is seen and has a voice. And at the end of the day, Abby reminds us that life isn’t about achieving gold medals or winning world championships—it’s about the journey and the people who are walking beside us along the way. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s the first episode of our Finishing Strong series! With the pressure of New Year’s resolutions and “new year, new you” mandates creeping just ‘round the corner, we’d like to focus on finishing this year (and this decade) with a bang, by giving ourselves time for reflection and the space to better wrap our heads around the future, thus absolving us all of that annoying January 1st deadline to fix everything in our lives (feel better? You’re welcome). And to help us do just that is our guest for this episode; speaker, author, entrepreneur, and just overall mentoring force for good in the world; Lewis Howes. Lewis takes us through his life story--from a childhood filled with pain and trauma, to a career in professional football, to becoming a high performance business coach--and all the missteps and lessons along the way. Speaking with candor and vulnerability, Lewis implores us, like he did, to let everything go from our pasts and to deal with the hurts and traumas in our life, in order to embrace a beautiful future. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Podcast Land’s giving-est couple Jen & Brandon are back with a slew of great gift ideas for the holidays on our 3rd Annual Hatmaker’s Favorite Things Holiday Gift Guide! Brennifer’s (we’re gonna get that “Super Couple” name to stick) giving us all the warm fuzzies by featuring 16 companies that not only make great products, but give back in significant ways to our communities, to people in need, and to the world. Our team has done the homework so you can feel good about all your gifts this year—PLUS the Hatmakers pulled a few strings so that For the Love Podcast listeners get amazing exclusive discounts from each company featured in the episode! From leather bags to soft blankets, from Jen-approved signature jewelry to wake-you-up-with-a-kick coffee, Jen & Brandon usher us into the holidays with their inimitable style and festive spirits. And don’t worry if you can’t write down these ideas as fast as Brandon and Jen are laying them down. The entire list of products—along with pictures, links and details about the exclusive discounts—are over on jenhatmaker.com just waiting for you. Happy Holidays from Jen, Brandon and the entire For the Love Podcast team! To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, neighbor! Today we start a short holiday series that reminds us there’s still so much good in the world, and so much to be thankful for. Speaking of, is there anyone more iconic, more revolutionary, more kind than Fred Rogers? Today we get a behind-the-scenes look at the new movie, A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood, starring Tom Hanks (!) as Mister Rogers, who was lightyears ahead of his time—and Jen is joined by none other than the writers and executive producers of the movie, Noah Harpster and Micah Fitzerman-Blue. Noah and Micah tell Jen why they decided to spend a decade of their lives to writing about Mister Rogers, how it’s made them better parents, and why they think the movie will help us soften our cynicism and remember the importance of being kind. We’re inspired by the words of Fred’s wife Joanne, who said that her husband was just another person too, one always looking for a way to help children understand their feelings and to make the world a gentler place to live. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As we wrap up our For the Love of Podcasts series (insert sad face), Jen’s sitting down with the one and only Monica Padman, co-creator and co-host with Dax Shepard of Armchair Expert—aka THE most-downloaded new podcast of 2018. Monica is a creative powerhouse, and today she and Jen go down memory lane to trace Monica’s path from theater major to LA-babysitter-trying-to-land-an-acting-gig to getting a text from Kristen Bell asking if she wanted to watch her five-month-old baby—which, by the way, was a job Monica almost didn’t take (!). Monica’s relationship with Kristen and Dax gradually developed into a creative partnership that’s spawned multiple projects, including the always-insightful Armchair Expert where some of the most creative and smart people spill their guts for two hours. Monica shares that finding a north star and following it, even if it doesn’t take you where you planned to go, is always worth the risk. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Our next episode of For the Love of Podcasts takes us to the gates of one of the most beloved audio shows of all time, NPR’s This American Life. And here to take us by the hand and lead us through the gates is producer Bim Adewunmi! Bim has had a rich media career, working for the BBC, The Guardian, and Buzzfeed News before starting her own podcast called Thirst Aid Kit then joining the ranks of This American Life. Radio was Bim’s first love (she’s had the same radio in her house for two decades!) so it’s only fitting that she works with the OG, circa 1995 podcast, telling stories from every corner in America from summer camp magic to a used car lot to African American blueberry farmers in Michigan. Bim’s perspective on uncovering hidden story gems, polishing and presenting them in an engaging way is equal parts fascinating and inspiring, and she reminds us that what we put into a story is just as important as what we leave out of it—and to appreciate narratives both big and small. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today we’re cracking open the history textbooks and learning from OG podcaster—we’re talking, 2005 OG—Dan Carlin! Dan’s had a long career in broadcasting and his podcast, Hardcore History, combines gripping moments in history with Twilight Zone-style twists only a master storyteller could pull off. Dan and Jen examine that while we may be players on the world’s stage, we really have no precedent for today’s society. How do we navigate it when there’s nothing in our experiences we can compare it to? Through it all, Dan provides invaluable insight into seeing ourselves through the lens of history, learning from our ancestors, and fitting ourselves into the giant puzzle. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This 4th episode in our For the Love of Podcasts series speaks to the powerful way podcasts can affect change. In fact, we’ve seen podcasts start important conversations and transport us to moments in history we’d have never encountered otherwise. Jen talks to a few of her podcaster friends who are bringing the heat to their spaces: The Red Couch Podcast’s Jason Petty (aka rapper Propaganda) and his wife, Dr. Alma Zaragoza-Petty, and Catlick’s BT Harman (Brett Trapp!). First, Prop and Alma give us a deep dive into the world of the Red Couch, where they empower the experiences of people in non-majority culture who may not have conventional degrees, but can school us on politics and economics all the same (because everybody comes up against money and power, no matter where they live). Prop and Alma invite folks in majority culture to spend time in a space that’s not designed for them—because experience breeds empathy. In the second half of the show, we catch up with BT Harman, who was on the show last spring when we still called him Brett Trapp. Today we learn about the podcast BT’s been working on for four years: a true-crime story filled with complicated Southern history reaching back across centuries that he unearthed right in his own backyard: Atlanta’s Cabbagetown neighborhood. These storytellers encourage every generation to retell the hard stories, and to make room for voices from the margins to move to the center of the discussion. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re learning truckloads and having a ridiculous amount of fun in our For the Love of Podcasts series—lifehacks abound in these episodes, and especially in the show of our next guest: How To! with Charles Duhigg. Charles is a Pulitzer-winning investigative reporter and NYT bestselling author (who’s disarmingly charming), and he’s come up with a genius way to answer all of life’s “important” questions. Want to manage your anxiety? He’s your guy. Need tips on robbing a bank? Got you covered. Want to be ripped like Ryan Reynolds? Look no further! On his podcast, Charles talks to people with real questions we all have but never knew who to ask, and he hooks up the question-askers with experts who break down the big problems step by small step. And in fact, Charles is an expert in his own right: for his bestselling book The Power of Habit, Charles learned why people develop their habits—good or bad—and how we can fix them. And at one point, he walks Jen through her own mini-counseling sesh, peeling back the layers of why Jen (and we) procrastinate, and how the heck we can fix it. Charles’ insights into breaking down big problems into small, manageable steps are practical, applicable, and just plain fun podcast listening. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

One of THE best things about podcasts is how we can instantly connect with wise teachers who change our lives for the better. And that’s 100% true for today’s guest, personal finance expert Rachel Cruze! For some of us, throwing around words like “budget” and “401k” is the verbal equivalent of sticking pencils in our eyeballs. But thankfully, Rachel doesn’t have that effect on us. In her podcast and web series, The Rachel Cruze Show, Rachel takes a warm, practical approach to money that makes it all so much more doable and manageable (after all, she’s had a lifetime of training, thanks to her dad Dave Ramsey!). Today Jen and Rachel talk about why sticking to a budget actually gives you freedom, the surprising secret to having more peace with your partner around finances, and how to teach your kids healthy money habits from an early age. As a self-admitted spender at heart, Rachel empowers us with tips and tools to help us remember that despite our feelings and past choices around money, it is always possible to make a change—because we are more than just our stuff. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Calling all podcast nerds: today we’re launching a brand-new series celebrating the shows and hosts we love—that’s right, it’s time to kick off For the Love of Podcasts! And today we’re thrilled to bring you two fresh voices who started a new in the summer of 2019 and are just killing it: Charla Lauriston and Lauren Domino from The Secret Lives of Black Women! Charla and Lauren have created a space where they’re inviting all listeners to join, but they’re carving a space where black women can especially relate and be celebrated. Charla and Lauren have been friends for nearly a decade after meeting in a not-so-great workspace. Being in the trenches brought them closer together, and now they bring hilarious and poignant observations to their listeners with episodes each Thursday. Lauren and Charla share the unique challenges of being a black woman, their favorite role models—including their dream guests for their podcast (some of which mirror our own—psst, Oprah and Michelle Obama, call us!). Through podcasting, Charla and Laura have been able to confidently (and vulnerably) show who they are, where they’ve come from and share that sense of self with others as we all blaze a trail into the future. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re wrapping up the Back to School series as we celebrate the heart of our nation’s classrooms: our teachers. There are so many inspiring teachers that we couldn’t narrow down our conversation to just one guest. We had to talk to two very special teachers: the National Teachers of the Year for 2017 and 2018, Sydney Chaffee and Mandy Manning. Mandy’s classroom is in Spokane, WA, where she teaches immigrants and refugees to the US, and Sydney teaches students in Codman, MA, who find themselves in a minority population. Both teachers guide us through typical days in their classroom, tell us about the teachers who inspired them along the way, and give us a peek at the big and small things their kids share (Fortnite!). We’re so inspired by the way Mandy and Sydney infuse courage and wisdom into hard truths their pupils are learning about the world, and they remind us that every kid has the potential to be amazing—we just have to believe in them. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re still in full swing with our back to school series, and we’ve saved the best of our academic years for last - Elementary School. If you’ve ever been tempted to lose faith in this upcoming crop of youngsters, we’re here to bear witness that these kids are #killingit. Leading the pack are prodigies like 5th Grader Ryan Hickman, who started his own recycling business when he was just three years old (yes, 3!). Ryan’s now 10, and his business is thriving, and his goal, by the time he is the ripe old age of 12, is to recycle 1 million bottles and cans. He talks about his business, and how he raises money for the Pacific Marine Mammal Center in Orange County (which he’s shared about in numerous TV news stories and on The Ellen Show). Ryan also gives us a peek into what elementary school kids are into right now (besides being business magnates), including challenging Jen to a rousing game of his favorite card game, “War.” To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re winding back the clock and revisiting one of the most pivotal times in our lives: middle school. And guiding us through the junior high hallways of 2019 are Jen’s daughter Remy and her very best friend Ella! These girls have weathered middle school and all its new responsibilities, social commitments, and shifting dynamics with so much grace and heart. And they give us the inside scoop on what’s in (TikTok and Snapchat) and what’s out (*gasp* Instagram!), their best advice to their younger selves (if someone gets mad at you for trying to make new friends, that’s their problem) and what they wish their parents knew (everything is, um, a lot—so maybe give us some space?). Remy and Ella’s friendship is giving us life goals, and the girls remind us that good relationships help make some of the weirdest times not only navigable, but tons of fun. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hit up your locker and meet us in homeroom because today we’re going back to high school with Jen’s very own two high schoolers, Caleb and Ben Hatmaker. High school is a formative experience for all, and Ben and Caleb’s journey will likely resonate with each of us: making great friends, getting buried under homework, trying to make our parents proud. But it’s eye-opening to learn about what Gen Z is dealing with that we didn’t have to: paralyzing academic pressure, a laser-focused emphasis on getting a four-year degree, having an instant connection to information and peers 24/7—it’s a lot. Ben and Caleb reveal what they like about being in Gen Z, and they give us the 411 (*ahem* perhaps under duress) about all the stuff the cool kids are saying (Cap? Dap?) that we immediately plan to use everywhere and make uncool—and they drop a bomb by telling us Agatha Christie has made a comeback. And Jen lays down some old-school wisdom by teaching the boys what a “busy signal” is. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Pull out your notebooks and sharpen your pencils, because today we’re starting a brand-new series called For the Love of Back to School! Ahh, school. Some things never change (football games! clubs! writing your entire term paper the night before it’s due!), but today’s kids are dealing with challenges that weren’t around when some of us were younger. We wanted to get the inside scoop on the ways young folks think about school and the world they’re learning to live in, and we’re starting with two people Jen knows pretty well: her two college kids, Gavin and Sydney! Gavin’s a senior at Texas Tech, and Sydney’s a sophomore at UT Austin, and they graciously let their mom to grill them on all kinds of topics: What’s different about college from what they expected? Why are they excited to be part of Gen Z? What do they wish their parents knew? (and what do their parents, ahem, not know—besides Sydney and her friends have a major crush on Michelle Obama?) One thing the Hatmakers take away from their chat: as you learn how to be an adult or how to be the parent of an adult, keeping the lines of communication open lifts up everyone. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Remember when newspapers and 3 TV channels were the only ways you consumed the news? That world will never be a reality for our kids—and it’s up to us to teach them to think critically about where they’re getting information and who may be trying to feed it to them. And get excited, parents, because we have a killer partner in this effort: it’s called MediaWise, and it’s a media literacy project that aims to teach 1 million teens how to sort fact from fiction online by 2020. Jen talks to journalist and MediaWise member Heaven Taylor-Wynn, who schools us on ways we can teach our kids (and ourselves) how to sniff out fake news and gives us the skinny on some of the new scams we need to watch out for (anyone who’s seen the “deep fake” video of Ron Swanson on the opening credits of Full House knows what we’re talking about). We learn how keyword searches take the sensation out of crazy headlines and how “lateral reading” helps us give a more full context to a story. Heaven’s right when she says, “The information we consume directly affects the decisions we make.” And if we can equip our kids to navigate digital waters successfully, we’re setting them up to have healthy media diets and make well-informed choices for life. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

When we sat down to plan For the Love of Finding the Truth, one of the first names that came to mind was Elizabeth Dias of The New York Times. And for good reason—Elizabeth is one of our best thinkers right now, giving us context for what’s going on at the intersection of politics and religion in America, all the while searching for underrepresented voices that need to be amplified. A decade ago, Elizabeth started her career at Time, sitting down with heavy-hitters like Pope Francis and the Dalai Lama while also covering social and ideological shifting sands, like the way the Latino community is changing the face of evangelical churches and our culture’s collective response to Trayvon Martin’s death. Elizabeth and Jen talk about the way American Christians are trying to reconcile their decisions at the ballot box with their faith, and why it’s so important to ask hard questions, even if you don’t like the answers you get in return. Elizabeth reminds us even when we get uncomfortable and dig for answers beneath the surface, the truth is always worth it. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

“It’s funny ‘cause it’s true!” said Tina Fey on 30 Rock. As in all things, Tina is 100% correct. In our 2nd episode of For the Love of Finding the Truth, Elle.com humor writer R. Eric Thomas and Jen explore humor as a truth-telling device and how we can use comedy to face some of the greatest ideological battles of our time. Eric has a daily column called “Eric Reads the News” where he breaks down the biggest headlines as only a satirist, brunch enthusiast, and Beyoncé Fan Club President can do (and be careful where you read anything Eric writes—he’ll likely inspire uncontrollable snorts, much like you’ll hear from Jen during the episode). Eric’s first stab at observational humor took place at church while he and his brother made hilarious notes about the people there (to which Eric was sure they’d go to hell for). This humor later turned into imaginative scenarios Eric would post on Facebook for his friends (i.e. when he saw a group photo of President Obama, Canadian prime minister Justin Trudeau and former Mexican president Enrique Peña Nieto, Eric declared them “an all-male cast of Sex and the City”), which ultimately got the attention of Elle.com and launched his daily column. Eric’s journey is defined by confronting his own painful and hilarious truths as he’s overcome stereotypes, reckoned his Christianity with being gay, and discovered some surprisingly deep things about himself when he joined a gay softball league—all of which he talks about in his upcoming book Here For It. As Eric says: “The oppressors do not get to define the way I walk through the world and hold my head up. I get to define that.” As Eric would also say—honey, yes. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In the immortal words of Jack Nicholson, can you handle the truth? We think you can, and we’re excited to start a new series that dives into the murky world of truth-telling in our culture today: For the Love of Finding the Truth! Skewing the truth is nothing new—bias exists everywhere—but in the pre-social media era, it was a smidge easier to parse through what was real and what wasn’t. With the massive growth of online communities, there are more ways to get information than ever before—and more organizations looking to feed the information they want us to have (#fakenews). Kicking off the series are two women dedicated to sifting through the mountains of information hurled at us each day and understanding it from differing perspectives. Sarah Stewart Holland and Beth Silvers (who go by “Sarah from the left” and “Beth from the right”) stand a few feet from each other on the political spectrum, but are still friends—good friends. And they’re leading the way on how to have grace-filled political conversations, which they do each week on their highly acclaimed podcast Pantsuit Politics. Lucky for us, they wrote a whole book called I Think You’re Wrong (But I’m Listening) to remind us that relationship is always more important than being right. Plus, Sarah and Beth answer some burning political questions like: how does the Electoral College work and why is everyone in a twist about it? Gerrymandering—why should I care? And what’s gonna happen in 2020?? The Pantsuit ladies break it all down and give us thoughtful explanations and opinions, showing us how truth can be revealed through knowledge wherever you stand. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Erin Loos Cutraro has a vision some may describe as bold, but actually, it should be our reality: half of the people running for office should be women (and spoiler alert: women who run win at the same rates as men!). But often, starting when we’re little girls, women don’t see themselves as qualified leaders, or feel they don’t have enough experience, connections, or time to jump into the political arena. Erin is passionate about removing those perceived obstacles and clearing the path for more women to run for office—starting at the all-important local level (did you know 99% of elected offices are at the local level?). Erin launched She Should Run, a nonpartisan organization that encourages and equips women from all walks of life to run for office. Erin and Jen talk about why it’s so important to have policymakers with diverse experiences and backgrounds, and how we can start small by getting to know our local officials. Erin believes women participating in government is the key to solving systemic issues in our neighborhoods and our nation, which lifts up everyone. If you’ve ever thought you could bring a fresh perspective to the political landscape where you live and beyond, Erin’s here to tell you: you should—and can—run! To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

If you’ve seen her on the Netflix series Chef’s Table, you know Chef Dominique Crenn is filled with equal parts talent, love, and creative whimsy. Dominique is the chef-proprietor of Atelier Crenn, the San Francisco restaurant she opened nearly a decade ago. And last year Dominique became the first female chef in America to earn three Michelin stars, the highest honor in the food world, all with an eye toward connecting with her guests and ensuring all feel welcome in her space. Raised in the Brittany region of France, Dominique moved to California in her twenties, looking for a sense of purpose, and talked her way into the glitzy kitchen run by acclaimed chef Jeremiah Tower—except Dominique had never cooked in a professional kitchen before. Today she and Jen talk about the ways leaders can help their teams thrive, how women can become advocates for each other, and why it’s so important to care for the earth as much as it cares for us. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Our series on Powerhouse Women continues with two strong women who are helping women in Haiti get through the most powerful and vulnerable moments they will ever experience: giving birth. Midwives Tara Livesay and KJ Johnson are best friends who work with Heartline Ministries and, like Melinda Gates, they champion maternal care as a human right. As Enneagram 2s, Tara and KJ became fast friends, and they tell Jen why they decided to become midwives, about the birth story that brought them together (an unexpected twin!), what it’s like to offer maternal care in Haiti (it involves Tara driving a van on the rules-optional streets of Port-au-Prince—not for the faint of heart!). Tara and KJ are facing broken systems that are daunting for people in their line of work, and instead of walking away defeated, they are offering love to one person at a time—the kind of love we’d all like to receive in our own moment of need. And sometimes, that’s all we can do. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nona Jones (Yes Nona, not Norah!) faced a lot of obstacles on her path to becoming a powerhouse woman and now heads up global faith-based partnerships at Facebook. Growing up with a single mom amid trauma and abuse, Nona struggled to see her value or her place in the world. Nona found a community of love and support in her local church, and being accepted and welcomed there began a path toward healing that would change her whole trajectory. She tells Jen how she joined the executive team of a Fortune 500 Company at age 23, and how she learned the difference between healthy and unhealthy ambition. And in her role as social media maven at Facebook, Nona has razor-sharp insight into how we can help our kids cultivate authentic communities online and off. Nona’s message is one that we can all take to heart--when we believe in who we truly are, we are able to pursue our highest values and goals with excellence, which adds enormous value to the world. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

By anyone's definition, Sarah Robb O'Hagan is a winning force. She's a brilliant executive, passionate athlete, and bold entrepreneur who’s worked with some of the biggest corporations around: Apple, Virgin Atlantic, Nike, to name a few. And when Sarah was the CEO of Gatorade, she led a huge turnaround that reinvigorated the struggling company. Sarah talks candidly about her winding road to the top, a journey that included more than one time she was let go from a job. She isn’t afraid to admit, “I deserved to get fired,” and reminds us that we need to allow ourselves plenty of room to try and risk and make mistakes, because our failures have just as much to teach us as our successes. Sarah reiterates a common theme among powerhouse women—we need to pull our sisters and other underrepresented communities to the top with us, because our boardrooms won’t truly represent what our country looks like until we close the gap ourselves. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We all know knowledge is power. But the power doesn’t just come from what you know—it comes from acting on that knowledge. And for theSkimm’s Carly Zakin and Danielle Weisberg, their mission is to give that power to millennial women and beyond, to arm them with the tools and confidence to take charge of their lives and conquer the world, and they’re doing it all through the media company they founded called theSkimm. When they left their jobs at NBC News in 2012, Carly and Danielle started a daily online newsletter from their couch. Since then, their office has grown from 2 employees to more than 100, and their handful of subscribers has ballooned to a whopping 7 million (!). Why? Because they tell hard news in a way that people can not only understand but actually want to read, and they’re making a difference. In fact, theSkimm helped register more than 200,000 new voters in the 2018 midterms, and they’ve already set their sights on the 2020 elections. Jen sat down with Carly and Danielle to talk about their rise as female CEOs running a female-led company, and the best career advice they’ve received from powerful women in their lives. And speaking of advice, theSkimm team assembled of their best nuggets of wisdom, from how to invest to how to pack jewelry for a trip, in their just-released New York Times bestselling book, How to Skimm Your Life. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re starting strong in our new series For the Love of Powerhouse Women, because we’re joined by one of our personal heroes: Melinda Gates. Kind and wise, Melinda leads the world largest philanthropy, the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, to improve the lives of millions of women and children around the world, and she does it all with a listening ear and an equally fierce and gentle spirit. We’re thrilled to talk with her today about her dynamite new book The Moment of Lift. Melinda lets us in our her early days in Dallas, growing up in a devoted Catholic family and learning about the lives of the marginalized through volunteer work at the country courthouse. After receiving degrees in computer science and business at Duke, Melinda made her way to Microsoft, where she led product teams on little things you might’ve heard of like Microsoft Word and Expedia, before turning down Bill Gates for a date, then eventually becoming his bride. When her children were young, Melinda explored the lives of little ones like her own around the globe and wondered why children in other countries were dying of preventable diseases like malaria. Her trip down the rabbit hole led to conclude that their mothers needed to be lifted up. And in fact, when you lift up a woman, she lifts up everyone else. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this bonus episode as we begin a new series, which features Powerhouse Women, we’re thrilled to visit with someone close to one of the most powerful women on the planet! Stedman Graham is a brilliant business consultant whose clients range from Microsoft to the US Department of Labor. And after talking with him about his latest book, Identity Leadership, we can see why. Stedman reminds us if you want to lead someone else, you need to lead yourself first—and leading yourself means knowing who you are and where you want to go. He and Jen talk about why love is the secret ingredient to transforming our energy, why Oprah is one of the world’s most effective leaders, and how we can help our kids become creative, curious thinkers who can lead and dare greatly into the next generation. Whether you’re leading the way for your family or an entire company, Stedman’s advice rings true: find what you love and go do it, because love will light you up and change the world. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Break out the champagne and the streamers because today we’re celebrating our 100th episode! To mark this illustrious milestone, Jen is joined by the women behind the podcast: God-sent angel/assistant Amanda Duckett (who had to be heavily bribed to appear on the show), and producer extraordinaire/lover of stats Laura Neutzling. Together the ladies of For the Love dish on the behind-the-scenes shenanigans that have never left their laptops. Learn the secret identity of the first voiceover lady, which guest surprised Jen in the very best way, and what’s saving all our lives. The ladies muse on their personal favorite episodes and reveal which episodes have been your favorites, too. We’re also honored to celebrate you, our listeners, who inspire us to bring the best guests and topics to the table—here’s to the next 100 episodes! To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In our fifth and final installment of For the Love of Health & Wellness, we’re exploring the wide world of career health, a huge part of many of our lives that affects us mind, body, and soul. How we spend our days is how we spend our lives, and if you work full-time, you know how much of your day seems to be dedicated to making a living. But what happens when you’re ready for the next step . . . and you don’t know what it is? Whether you’re a young person trying to break into a career or you’re wanting to start fresh later in life, what if it feels like the opportunities you expected aren’t presenting themselves? Rich Karlgaard, the publisher of Forbes Magazine, helps us embrace the notion that it’s never too late for us. While Rich landed a job that he loves, he didn’t always have a clear idea of his path. Years after he graduated from college, he wandered from job to entry-level job, seeking a spark from something (like so many of us). Rich has written a fascinating book called Late Bloomers, and he and Jen muse on why our world is so obsessed with early achievement, how that’s hurting adults and kids alike, and the benefits of “peaking” at a higher age. It’s never too late to start the business, write the book, go after the dream. In fact, the wisdom we might gain through hard-won experience could be just the thing that helps us succeed. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

*Since this episode contains mature themes, we recommend listening where kids can’t hear.* We forge ahead in For the Love of Health & Wellness with an important facet of our health we don’t address as openly as we may care to admit: sexual health. Jen sits down with sexologist Dr. Celeste Holbrook, who has dedicated her life to helping women achieve soul-centered sex, and they broach topics many of us might be too timid to bring up. Ever wonder how much sex is normal? It’s in here. Want to know what the #1 arousal killer is? Gotcha covered. And (gulp) we even discuss how to talk to our kids about sex (!). Not only does Celeste discuss these important topics, she also relates her own journey with sex—from the anticipation of having a mind-blowing sexual encounter for the first time, to finding that for her, the whole event was . . . less than ideal. For years, sex remained a painful, shame-inducing experience for Celeste that finally drove her to get help, but even then her doctor couldn’t give her the answers she needed to address the physical and emotional issues she had around sex. Celeste decided to take her sexual health into her own hands and got her PhD in sexology. Now Celeste sees one of the biggest ways she can help her clients have better sex is by helping them find their worth. She wants to empower women to know themselves and feel confident in their bodies, so that they are able to ask for what they want inside and outside the bedroom. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Let’s get in the driver’s seat of how we’re living, who we’re investing in, and how we’re spending our time as we head into the third episode of For the Love of Health & Wellness. Today we’re looking at the direct connection between living a life of kindness and improving our mental and physical health. Did you know studies show that helping others can reduce early mortality rates by 22%, diminish depression, and increase our sense of life satisfaction and well-being? Author, TV Host, and curator of the 100 Things List Terry Sebastian found this out firsthand. After tragically losing a childhood friend, 24-year-old Sebastian made a list of 100 Things he wanted to pursue, hoping it would bring him joy and a life of no regrets, and set out to bring his list to life. While the adventure involved amazing things like jumping out of a plane (naked!) and delivering a baby, he realized his true mission when he met a quadriplegic man named Mark, who dreamed of completing a half marathon. Sebastian helped Mark reach his dream by pushing Mark the entire 13.1 miles. Sebastian’s new mission to spread kindness led him to create an organization called Kindsum, which connects “helpers” to those who are vulnerable and brave enough to ask for help. Sebastian shows us what’s possible by living intentionally and how showing kindness can change ourselves and the world for good. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

With the second episode of our For the Love of Health & Wellness series, we’re taking a deep dive into physical health—but this is not a “go get your annual physical” guilt trip. We’re talking with a doctor who’s taking a refreshing “body and mind” approach to looking at health, a physician who started a literary journal and decided to learn how to play the cello because she wanted a little more beauty and learning in her life. Dr. Danielle Ofri is a general physician at Bellevue Hospital in New York City, the oldest public hospital in America, and today she brings us into life inside the white coat as she and Jen discuss some of the HUGE changes the medical world has seen over the last few decades, what we really need to do to stay healthy (hint: make friends, get a hobby, and drink lots of water), and some of the exciting medical breakthroughs we might see in our lifetime. Equal parts art and science, Dr. Ofri emphasizes that better and more frequent communication and connection is at the heart of what will keep us healthy in the long run, which she talks about in her latest book What Patients Say, What Doctors Hear. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re thrilled to begin a new series we hope will spur conversations about our body image, health, nutrition and well-being. During For the Love of Health & Wellness, we’re stepping out of the body-shaming space and giving the mic to experts and clinicians who have wise ways to help us take stock of how we’re doing, and adjust those dials to feel a bit better. In this episode, we’re talking food and body with our first guest, nutritionist Haley Goodrich, who we adore for many reasons—especially the way she helps others find joy and peace with their bodies. If you’re tired of feeding into toxic diet culture, you’ll be refreshed by Haley’s “Health at Every Size” philosophy that says you are worthy of caring for your body in ways that make you feel stronger and healthier, no matter the number you see on the scale. Jen and Haley have an eye-opening discussion about the way thin privilege shows up in our everyday lives and how we can become more inclusive of others’ different shapes. Haley encourages us to develop a healthy relationship with food that doesn’t involve strict calorie counting or calling foods “good” or “bad,” but instead helps us remember food is neutral—it’s just something we nourish ourselves with, body and soul. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We lost a beloved friend, teacher, and true faith groundbreaker this week. Her teachings, writings, and insight into the Christian faith have quietly revolutionized the lives for many whose religious upbringing imposed limits and yielded scars. Because of Rachel, more women than ever have begun pursuing their place in the pulpit. Because of Rachel, the way has been paved for all of us who struggle with questions, doubts and failings in the faith to speak openly about it. Her passing seems sudden, and too soon. But right now, we are clinging to her warmth and wisdom in hopes we can continue to be the light she always was for us. In that spirit, we’re re-airing her conversation from last year about her fierce love of the church, even in the midst of her doubt. In Rachel’s own words from that interview, “Ours is a God of death and resurrection—and that God can take anything and bring it to life.” In moments like this, we realize Rachel’s work planted seeds of hope that will bloom across generations. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We always like to mix it up a little bit here in For the Love Podcast world, and we hope you’ll be the happy beneficiaries of this bonus episode! We got the chance to catch up with one of our faves--the beautiful and talented Chrissy Metz--who plays the role of Kate Pearson on the beloved, boo-hoo-every-week hit television show, This Is Us. Chrissy shares a little about how she got her start, and in the process cheers on the late bloomers among us and those who may be tired of living in the shadows. She goes on to talk about the powerful movie she recently starred in called Breakthrough. In this true life story, she plays the role of a mother, who after everyone told her her son wouldn’t survive a terrible accident, decided to believe that he could. Chrissy experienced a similar situation after her own mother suffered a stroke, and relates how the role echoed her real life crisis. Chrissy is a champion for being vulnerable--as an actor, and as a woman--and is a model for what it means to finally believe in yourself and take a leap of faith. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Coming in to wrap up our For the Love of Faith Groundbreakers series is yet another guest who challenges us to look at our faith differently, a prolific writer, rapper, activist and voice of conscience (and one that’s bound to get us cool points with our kids): GRAMMY Award-winning hip-hop artist Lecrae. Over the years, Lecrae has discovered the most effective leaders for change do so with vulnerability. He candidly tells us about the blowback he received after raising his voice about systemic racism, how it subsequently sent him into a depression, and how therapy and a fresh outlook on faith helped him pull forward. Through it all, Lecrae lays down truth and eye-opening wisdom as he shepherds us through conversations in artistry, faith, and fatherhood, reminding us why it’s so important not only to think about injustice, but to do something about it. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Bible means many things to many people, and its passages have been interpreted seven ways to Sunday; in turn those interpretations have spawned countless church denominations that all vary in their beliefs. For some, the Bible is the ultimate answer book for anything that life may present. But for others, there are questions that the Bible doesn’t seem to address, or if it does, it’s difficult to always understand the context of those thoughts and how they apply to our present day world. Pete Enns is a Bible scholar, a popular blogger and podcast host of The Bible for Normal People, and he’s here to tell us that the Bible is a “guide to a journey of wisdom in this life, as opposed to being an answer book for every question we might happen to have to ask of it.” His excellent new book called “How the Bible Actually Works” will give us comfort in that there is no “wrong way” to read the Bible and that the questions that stem from that reading aren’t obstacles, but catalysts to lead us into a deeper understanding of God. While the Bible is often “weaponized” and its text used to foster guilt and shame, Pete eschews the notion that we approach the Bible as a “rule book,” and wants us to recognize it as a beautiful, liberating book of wisdom that has guided the church forward generation after generation. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sarah Bessey is the friend we all need, the one who will welcome you with open arms, tuck you under a blanket she knitted herself, and hand you a cup of tea while you talk about the mysteries of life. As a matter of fact, she’s exactly that kind of friend to Jen—and through this episode, you’ll feel the love too. As a beautiful and insightful writer, her books take us through the deconstruction of her faith, with wonderings and wanderings so many of us have had, or may be experiencing now, back to a relationship with God that allows for questions and a desire for change in our religious systems. Sarah also opens up about a shift in her reality that she’s been quietly living through for the last couple of years—the aftermath of a serious car accident, which upended the life she was building and left her in chronic pain. Having to hit pause on the speaking career she loved and the book she thought she would write, Sarah embarked on an all new journey to rediscover who God was in this season of life, and contemplates what’s different on the other side of being broken. Her new book, Miracles and Other Reasonable To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Father Richard Rohr is one of our best teachers, hands down. Whether it’s through his work at the Center for Action and Contemplation (which he founded) in Albuquerque, New Mexico, or the many enlightening books he’s written, Fr. Richard is dedicated to helping people realize their best selves, both inwardly and outwardly. A champion for social justice who’s spent decades fighting for equality, he shows us the way to radical compassion by gently leading us to see the world with new eyes through the concept of “voluntary displacement,” i.e. when we willfully move out of our comfort zones and “live” ourselves into new ways of thinking. For such a wise and contemplative guy, his cool factor is off the charts. He calls Bono a good friend, and he was considered the foremost expert on the Enneagram WAY before it was the hot topic of the day. Jen and Fr. Richard discuss the dangers of “individualistic Christianity,” in the context of his new book “The Universal Christ,” and how so many of us have a stingy view of God who doles out His love out to just a certain few. He sums up our spiritual challenges in one masterful concept that, if we truly embraced, it would change the direction of our lives: “nothing can separate us from God, except the thought that we’re separate from God.” To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices