For The Love With Jen Hatmaker Podcast

When was the last time you reached out to one of your neighbors? Not just the people you feel comfortable with, but the ones who live near that you might not know beyond a “How are you?” in passing. As we continue our Community and Friendship series, we’re taking a look at why it enriches our lives (and the lives of our neighbors) to invest in the people around us. It doesn’t have to mean they all become our best friends, but a little curiosity, a little paying attention, and a little effort to listen will go a long way in developing the kinds of relationships that make life sweeter. To help guide this conversation, we’re delighted to welcome author and speaker Shannan Martin back to the show! Through her writing, Shannan has revolutionized the way we think about relationships with her refreshing perspectives. She articulates the need for genuine, deep-seated friendships that stretch beyond conventional norms. She also unravels the complexities of forging meaningful connections in our modern world, and her last book “Start with Hello” beckons us toward extending hospitality in ways that might feel awkward at first, but will net us that sense of community and belonging we all long for. Shannan and Jen discuss: How Shannan, a self proclaimed introvert, faced her loneliness after she and her family moved from the country to the city by getting outside her comfort zone and making herself available to meet her neighbors What it means to be deeply embedded in a neighborhood where you are both a good neighbor, and your neighbors are good neighbors to you How making new friends, no matter how big or small, always starts with a simple “hello” and the small steps towards getting to know someone by making eye contact, paying attention and helping when we can Shannan and Jen agree that when we reach out beyond our fears, beyond our comfort level, and beyond our borders with radical hospitality, good things start to happen in our neighborhoods which then trickle out to our communities and begin to affect society as a whole. And, be sure to stay with us ‘til the very end–you won’t want to miss a little bonus chat among friends about whether ice cream is healthy for you or not, and what flavors Jen and Shannan swear by. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! FOCL | Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Every relationship that we have, whether it's the smallest acquaintance or our truest loves, began with a hello.” - Shannan Martin “There's this unfair idea that if somebody is unhoused, they're gonna be inherently a danger to us and it's just simply not true.” - Shannan Martin “What if we just decided to eat together? What if we decided that nobody is exempt from being in our home? Everybody's invited. That makes life really interesting.” - Shannan Martin Resources Mentioned in This Episode: For the Love of Books Series The Window (a nonprofit organization out of Goshen, IN) Shannan’s Books For the Love Episode ft. Osheta Moore An article on the health benefits of Ice Cream by The Atlantic Toad the Wet Sprocket Tour Crack the Case by Dawes Guest’s Links: Shannan’s Website Shannan’s Twitter Shannan’s Instagram Shannan’s Facebook Connect with Jen!: Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey friends, we are back with another episode in our For the Love of Community & Friendships, and we happen to have a true friend of the show returning to lay down some expertise about what it means to make and keep friends. We’re delighted to have Dr. Marisa Franco, (who also partnered with Jen to create a MeCourse on Friendship) who delves into the fascinating world of friendship attachment styles. Dr. Franco shares her extensive knowledge and insights on how our attachment styles, often formed during our early years, can significantly influence the type of friendships we form as adults. She discusses the three main types of attachment styles—secure, avoidant, and anxious—and explains how understanding our own style can help us navigate our friendships more effectively. Jen and Marisa touch on: How the three main types of attachment styles can change over time as we typically become more secure as we mature How, when we’re younger, we tend to have more friends (and friends who are very similar to us) as we look to expand our identity, and when we become more solid in our identity, we’re more open to be friends with people who are different from us Why friendship doesn’t just typically “happen,”--it takes effort, and some ways you can put yourself out there to make new friends, and how to do the work to keep the friends you already have How to approach conflict in friendship where we kindly share our needs with a spirit of reconciliation over an attitude of defensiveness * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Chime | Visit chime.com/forthelove to learn how you can benefit from using Chime! FOCL | Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “If you don't understand your attachment style, you think that the world is just mean and cruel and people are gonna reject you or people are going to betray you. If you're more avoidant and you don't have any power, you don't have any agency because all the issues are out in the world.” - Dr. Marisa Franco “I think if we can understand our attachment styles, we have more agency, we have more control, we can shift our behaviors and we can find the relationships that we really want.” - Dr. Marisa Franco “People are a lot more likely to be friends with people that are similar to them. It's called homophily. The value of these similar relationships is they do make us feel very safe.” - Dr. Marisa Franco “We see in the research that people who see friendship as happening without effort are more likely to be lonely five years later. People that see it as requiring effort are less likely to be lonely five years later.” - Dr. Marisa Franco “What we see in the research is that when people try to reconnect with someone, that person is happier to receive that reconnection than we predict.” - Dr. Marisa Franco “In a healthy conflict, I think of; what does this conflict look like without blame? What if I go into here not trying to blame this person, not trying to even assume that they were trying to intentionally hurt me. So then, how do I navigate it with that being what's going on in my head?” - Dr. Marisa Franco Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Platonic How The Science of Attachment Can Help You Make and Keep Friends a book by Dr. Marisa Franco Guest’s Links: Dr. Franco’s Website Dr. Franco’s Instagram Dr. Franco’s Facebook Dr. Franco’s Twitter Dr. Franco’s Psychology Today Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Genuine heart friendships have an incredible impact on our lives, including our health. Many recent studies tout the connection between health and the quality of your relationships, and that loneliness (not to be confused with being alone) can have a negative effect on our health–possibly even bigger than smoking or drinking or poor eating. So is it possible that our friends can actually help save us? Our guest today thinks so; writer and poet extraordinaire Maggie Smith recently went through a divorce and she credits her close knit friend group for being “her parachute” in that process (much like Jen’s friends have been for her as well). Jen and Maggie discuss these topics around friendship: The way friends can invest in you in a way that family isn’t able to when you’re going through disruptive life moments The friends that intuitively know what you need during a rough patch and show up proactively with solutions so you don’t feel so lost How we can nurture those “life saving” friendships by being a good friend ourselves Thank God for the friends who remind us of who we are–of our core goodness and worth– when a disruptive time shakes up our identity. They help bring us back to ourselves. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! Caraway | Save 10% on your next purchase on all Caraway products by visiting carawayhome.com/forthelove and use code: forthelove BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I was in a ‘not seeing the forest for the trees' mode. I was painting an inch from the canvas. I had no idea what the shape of anything was and I was just panicked and trying to spackle everything back together as quickly as I could. And so having people who could remind me of my goodness, my core worth, which I think is so easy to forget in these moments." - Maggie Smith "When friends come in, they're not necessarily invested in the relationship. They're invested in your happiness. Whatever that looks like for you, it doesn't actually impact your friend a block away. If your marriage doesn't work the same way it impacts your family, who's thinking, 'Oh, what are we gonna do for Christmas now?'" - Maggie Smith “I think there's something that we do that hurts our adult friendships in particular, which is why we prioritize them sometimes way below our romantic relationships. It happens even when we're dating. We all knew or we were the girl who was 15 and as soon as she got a boyfriend stopped hanging out with her friends on the weekends because she was like, ‘I just wanna be with my boyfriend and if he's busy then I can come hang out.’” - Maggie Smith "Maybe someone hurt you five years ago now seems pretty small and not unmanageable or unforgivable. So what would it take to just reach out, call your friends, and have them help you craft a text to someone that you haven't talked to in a while, or leave a voicemail—if you're phone brave, I am not phone brave, so I would text or probably email. If you know where they live, send a little postcard that has some little private joke or something that reminds you of them." - Maggie Smith Resources Mentioned in This Episode: You Could Make This Place Beautiful: A Memoir by Maggie Smith My Thoughts Have Wings by Maggie Smith (A picture book releasing in winter 2024 by Maggie Smith) Moving Forward After Pain Rips Your Script: Maggie Smith (FTL Episode featuring Maggie Smith) Guest’s Links: Maggie’s Website Maggie’s Instagram Maggie’s Twitter Maggie’s Facebook Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re in a brand new series; For the Love of Friends and Community. Friendship and community often serve as the cornerstone for many women's lives, providing a vital support system that nurtures connection, empathy, and mutual growth. In a recent survey from Psych Central, nearly half of most women report having fewer than 3 close friends, one third report having between 4-9 close friends, and 12% say they have no close friends at all. We know that friendship contributes to more satisfaction in life and is good for our overall health. So what’s the key to finding and keeping friends? How many friends do we need to get those good friend vibes? Our guest this week, author and podcaster Laura Tremaine, has written extensively about friendship, drawing from her own experiences and the experiences of other women she has talked to. Laura wants us to identify, create and nurture these deep connections that we long for. She also teaches us that friendship takes work, and vulnerably shares her friendship fails (yes, even a friendship expert has a few friend misses now and again). Jen and Laura discuss: The key qualities that make a friendship meaningful and enduring, and how those things are defined by what you value A rundown of the things we all may think are important about friendship and looking at the things that aren’t as important as we’ve been made to believe they are How to navigate friendship breakups and friendships ending, allowing grief over that loss, and leaving room for that vacant “chair” to be filled by someone new Finding the “fellow obsessive” friend - the one you can geek out about with things that you both love Creating meaningful friendships is not just about having a social circle. It's about experiencing true companionship and vulnerability and support. And it's these soul connections that can bring so much joy and fulfillment to our lives. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! MeCourse: LGBTQIA+ | LGBTQIA+ Parenting e-course from Jen and special guests is available for order. Visit https://www.mecourse.org/lgbtqia-parenting for more info. FOCL | Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “You can have all the data about why we connect or don't connect or how many people we can reasonably connect with. There's data and then there's actually real life.” - Laura Tremaine “It's great to have the friends who knew you when. It's also great to have friends who are like, ‘I had no idea you used to be that way and I'm glad we're meeting at this stage.’” - Laura Tremaine “My friendship with one of my best friends ended not by my choice, and it was as devastating as any romantic breakup I have ever been through.” - Laura Tremaine “Sharing your stuff, even when it's messy, brings you closer to who you are.” - Laura Tremaine “When you make a new friend and someone likes this newest version of you that you have fought so hard to be, how validating is that?” - Laura Tremaine “Friendship is a to-do and I have to put it on my to-do list like I put work tasks on my to-do list.” - Laura Tremaine Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Share Your Stuff I’ll Go First (a book by Laura Tremaine) Friends song by Michael W. Smith Brené Brown’s Websites Jamie B. Golden Steven King Summer (A book club with Laura Tremaine) On Writing: A Memoir of the Craft by Stephen King The Stand by Stephen King Guest’s Links: Laura’s Instagram Laura’s Facebook Laura’s Podcast Laura’s Amazon Laura’s Website Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

If you or anyone you know and love has ever had issues with their mental health, you know how painful it can be. As we conclude our “For the Love of Being Seen and Heard” series, we just want to remind you that there's no shame in admitting that you might need a little help. Maybe you’re feeling low, or more anxious than usual, or sad, scared, or just off—anything that feels different or keeps you from flourishing. Our guest today is here to encourage you to take agency over your mental health, and as a therapist herself, she’s here to help us shed those stigmas around seeking help from a therapist or counselor. Lori Gottleib is a renowned psychotherapist, a bestselling author, and a leading voice in the mental health space. Her latest book (which was also a a selection for the Jen Hatmaker Book Club) Maybe You Should Talk To Somebody leads us into her own experiences with the transformative power of therapy and gives answers to those who might have hesitations about beginning this process. Lori and Jen talk about: Identifying the stereotypes about therapy and debunking them, plus what to expect so that you can a get the most out of your time with a therapist Developing an attitude that mental health is just as important as physical help and that seeking a therapist is on the same level as getting a check up with a medical doctor toward whole body health Jen’s personal experiences with therapy - and how she processed pain and betrayal, plus what it looks like to be in active recovery Becoming aware of and taking responsiblity for our own patterns, actions and responses to life events as it pertains to our mental state and interactions with others As Lori says, “one thing that therapy will teach you is how to be your real, messy, imperfect, fallible self, but also still love who you are.” * * * Thank you to our sponsors! BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! FOCL | Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Vist jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I think a lot of people are maybe afraid to open up to a therapist. They're maybe afraid to say, ‘this is the truth of who I am.’f That's why I really wanted to be open about what I was going through when I went to therapy, because I want people to know that this is a space where we've seen it all, not only as a therapist, but as a person in the world ourselves.” - Lori Gottlieb “The more you can show the truth of who you are, the deeper your connections will be with the people in your life.” - Lori Gottlieb “The internet is the most effective short-term non-prescription painkiller out there because it's really something we use to distract ourselves.” - Lori Gottlieb “The value of therapy is that you get wise compassion; we will hold up a mirror to you and we will help you to see what you haven't been willing or able to see about your role in the situation.” - Lori Gottlieb Resources Mentioned in This Episode: For the Love of Reconnecting Podcast episode- Rewriting the Stories We Tell Ourselves: Lori Gottlieb Maybe You Should Talk to Somebody by Lori Gottlieb Jen Hatmaker Book Club Aspen Ideas Festival Dear Therapist Podcast Guy Winch’s Ted Talk Lori’s Atlantic Articles Maybe You Should Talk to Someone Workbook Maybe You Should Talk to Someone Journal Guest’s Links: Lori’s Website Lori’s Twitter Lori’s Instagram Lori’s Facebook Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

To close out season one of the Make Me Care About Podcast, Jen sits down with the co-chair of The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, Melinda French Gates. In the spirit of helping us care about important, but sometimes little known facts, resources and phenomena, in this final episode, Melinda helps Jen wrap the season by discussing why she thinks we should care, and why she herself cares about the topics discussed throughout the first season. She also fills us in on what new initiatives are brewing at the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and the foundation's future. She discusses a central tenet toward enhancing women’s economic power, and why she believes this is such an important goal for the foundation. Join Jen and Melinda as they discuss: What happens when we start to care about important topics like the ones discussed in this Make Me Care About series How women having true economic power changes everything in their household and in the world Jen’s pick on the episode from this season that had the most impact on her How Melinda’s travels around the world provide crucial perspective on other cultures and ways of life toward helping others thrive You won’t want to miss this fascinating wrap to Season One of the Make Me Care About Podcast with special guest Melinda French Gates. *** Gates Foundation Links Make Me Care About Podcast Series Gates Foundation Resources for this Episode Krystal Payne Deon Woods Bell Chef Pierre Thiam Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re back with another installment of our Being Seen and Heard series, and we think this one is going to strike a nerve with many of you out there who are looking for a better, stronger, fairer, narrative when it comes to the balance of work in your home and toward raising children. Are you the one in your relationship who is handling the lion’s share of the care and feeding of your littles PLUS taking care of their pickups and dropoffs to school, daycare, sports, bathtimes, bedtimes, wiping noses, butts PLUS managing the domestic front of grocery shopping, cleaning, organizing, handling the social calendar, vacations, PLUS working a 40 hour a week job either inside or outside the home? We see you and are asking a question that maybe you ask every day; why are women still, in a day and age where we make up 55.9 percent of the workforce and where 40 percent are the main breadwinner in the home, still responsible for so much when it comes to child rearing and domestic workload? Our guest this week has created a national conversation about greater equality on the home front with a system she created through intense research that helps couples create balance, by understanding that women are doing what she calls almost all of the “invisible labor” in the home, with at least two thirds of them having a job outside the home as well. Eve Rodsky is a Harvard Law School grad with years of training in organizational management When she had her first child (and began to see her identity at her job being stripped away because of it) and then began the dance of balancing her job with all of her duties as a mother (for which she bore the lion’s share of the domestic and child rearing responsibilities, as so many women do) she started to wonder: what would it be like if couples could reimagine their relationships as to how it relates to rebalancing the work it takes to run a home? So began her “Fair Play” system, where she sets couples up for success in relationship and parenting by helping them change the way they think and talk about their home life. Jen and Eve discuss: The patriarchal history that has been around for centuries that informs why the imbalance of domestic workload still exists when so many other categories for women have been elevated How important it is to invite men into their full power into the home, removing barriers and stereotypes as to what men’s and women’s strengths are there Changing the notion that women’s time is somehow less important than men’s–and that the “invisible work” women do is toward guarding the time of men How the overwhelming pace of work, child rearing and home management eventually ends up making us sick and damaging our relationships, and what we can do about it BONUS: Eve puts Jen to the test with a question from her Fair Play card deck where we dive deep into Jen’s family values–a question that is illuminating to all of us in understanding each other in relationship. Thank you to our sponsors! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Changing and inviting men into their full power in the home is the only way women are gonna be able to step out into their full power in the world.” - Eve Rodsky “We've convinced women that their time is sand. It's infinite. Whereas we guard men's time as if it's finite like diamonds.” - Eve Rodsky Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Peter Drucker Robert Waldinger Ted Talk Fair Play Life Instagram Fairlifeplay.com I’m Glad My Mom Died by Jennette McCurdy - book recommendation Tiny Beautiful Things by Cheryl Strayed - book recommendation The Kingdom of Prep: The Inside Story of the Rise and (Near) Fall of J. Crew - book recommendation Guest’s Links: Eve’s Website Eve’s Facebook Eve’s Instagram Eve’s Twitter Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re back with maybe the most foundational episode in our Being Seen and Heard series–and it’s all about how we see ourselves. Were you taught to love yourself when you were growing up? Many of us never grew up hearing anything about embodiment, and maybe we’ve treated our bodies as “the enemy” for most of our years. Maybe you grew up in a time where you didn’t see people that looked like you, or had your body type represented in magazines, on TV or in movies. Perhaps you even had shame about your body (or still do), and you bought into diet culture and were constantly worried about your size and the number on the scale. It’s hard to see ourselves as beautiful when we’re looking outside ourselves for a standard of beauty. Our guest today is doing the good work of helping people see themselves differently, and it’s giving them freedom to love themselves for who they are today. Jessamyn Stanley has become a powerful voice for wellness and body acceptance (she also dubs herself the “Beyonce’ of yoga” - who can’t get behind that?). After attending yoga classes with a friend, Jessamyn fell in love with it, but she noticed that she didn’t see anyone who looked like her or had a body like hers–and when she moved to a different city and wasn’t attending yoga classes anymore—she craved a community to share her practice–except she wanted all kinds of people and body types to be a part of it. She began sharing her yoga practice on Instagram in 2012 and was amazed by the overwhelming response from many who had never done yoga before because they had felt just like Jessamyn had–that maybe it wasn’t for “people like them.” Her fledgling Insta-yoga classes grew into an organization called The Underbelly, a unique and inclusive digital wellness experience that draws thousands of people into its safe, accepting space. Jen and Jessamyn touch on these topics: Jessamyn’s experience being ashamed of her body as a middle schooler and being bullied for being different and how she looks at those years of bullying as a revelation that everyone is self conscious about their bodies-bullies included The realization we all have at the end of the day; all we have is ourselves-and if we can accept ourselves as we are right now-not who we thought we should be, or who we might be-we’ll enjoy the ability to be fully present and authentic in all of our encounters Debunking the long held notion that many people have about black women (and also that black women have been taught to believe) that they are “stronger” and “superwomen,” and what it means to allow themselves moments of rest and self-care Key changes that could be made to empower everyone to have their own agency toward self care, by making it possible for anyone-no matter how much money you make, or where you live-to participate in wellness practices like yoga Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Middle school was a time when I was really heavily bullied. That experience for me, looking back, was one of the greatest experiences because what it was actually teaching me is: everyone is self-conscious about their body. There's no one who is not self-conscious. And the person who bullies is having the most traumatic experience.” -Jessamyn Stanley “If I am all I have, then I have to learn to accept myself where I am right now. Not where I could be in the future, or where I thought I should have been 10 years ago. Like, what does it mean to just be who I am today?” -Jessamyn Stanley Resources: Leslie Kinzel - Body acceptance writer Maryanne Kirby - Body acceptance writer Nicolette Mason - Fat fashion blogger Dianne Bondi - Yoga practitioner Bikram Yoga Guest Links: Jessamyn’s TikTok Jessamyn’s Instagram Jessamyn’s Twitter The Underbelly Yoga Jessamyn’s People Magazine feature Jessamyn's Books @theBabySharkClub - Jessamyn’s dog's Instagram Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

If you’ve listened long enough to our show and also follow Jen, you probably know that the conversations we invite come in many stripes—thoughtful, timely, fun, encouraging, helpful, educational and inclusive—plus, we’re not afraid to veer into some of the deeper stuff. Important stuff that is sometimes hard to wrap our heads around, but if we don’t, no change can occur. Whatever we think about gun rights, there are voices to consider who are doing hard work to create a future where kids can safely attend schools, where people won’t be shot just for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, where mass shootings become a thing of the past. Wherever you stand on the spectrum of this issue, at the end of the day, many polls show that roughly 90% of us agree that we should have stricter gun laws. So we’re opening the For the Love Floor to someone who is seeing and hearing first hand from families affected by gun violence, who makes it her priority to educate the public, and puts the issue in front of legislators for increased gun safety. Gloria Pan is the VP of Moms Rising, a group of caring moms who take on the most critical issues facing women, mothers and families. She’s the head of their gun safety initiative and works with their membership to accelerate impact on Capitol Hill and state capitols to affect legislative change. She's also been a trusted voice who’s spread the message on CNN, with The Los Angeles Times, NPR, and all kinds of media platforms. Gloria and Jen have a discussion around: + The origins of the 2nd Amendment and how the narrative of guns rights proponents has been shaped over the last 50 years + Practical steps toward what we all can do if we want to make our voices heard about this issue and take action toward better gun safety + Hope toward a new generation of young people who are engaged in creating a better future and are paying attention in ways perhaps previous generations haven’t This work is not glamorous and can be full of disappointment, as moving mountains can often be. We’re grateful to people like Gloria who give us a glimpse from inside the fight, and bring us hope that change can really happen. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Gun violence deaths in this country hovered around 32,000 people a year. That was pretty consistent for many years. Now we're nearing 50,000 and we have so many guns. We have more guns than people in this country.” - Gloria Pan “We consider all moms and families who care about the future of their families and their communities and our country as our constituency. We very much believe that our job is to bring their voices and their concerns to the policy-making table” - Gloria Pan “Not too long ago, issues that are concerning for moms and families were never even talked about in Congress. Childcare, paid family and medical leave, and policies that enabled families to be able to care for our families were never even talked about. But because of the work of MomsRising, our partners out there, and moms and families speaking out, it is now front and center for many lawmakers.” - Gloria Pan "Join us. Help us build this momentum toward this future where the well-being of families is front and center for this country. Because what are we without our families?" - Gloria Pan Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Sandy Hook Maxwell Frost Attitudes Toward Gun Ownership in America: Pew Research 2008 Heller Decision The Bruen Decision The Cincinnati Revolt Article on Maxwell Frost and Parkland Florida Guest’s Links: Gloria’s Website Gloria’s Instagram Gloria’s Twitter Gloria’s Pinterest Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s another week of our illuminating For the Love of Being Seen and Heard series. We’re talking to people that are doing the life-changing work of helping each other see and hear each other–to see and hear communities that we are not a part of, to see and hear voices that have been traditionally silenced or marginalized, or even to see and hear ourselves in honest and affirming ways. Our guest this week is a powerful advocate, but with a tender heart who works in so many spaces that matter: feminism, racial justice, the arts, activism, self care and healing. Rachel Cargle is a writer and entrepreneur who has created powerful online learning spaces. She’s a regular contributor to Cultured Magazine, The Cut and Atmos. She’s been featured in the New York Times and Forbes as well. Her work centers around an invitation to pursue healing and growth, as well as re-imagining how systems that no longer serve us can be dismantled or changed to embrace justice and liberation. Her belief is that every one of us has power–the power to unlearn, relearn and reimagine–taking ourselves out of stuck spaces and creating places for understanding for everyone. Her thoughts on feminism are so insightful as she looks at how a well intentioned movement for the progress of women leaves out key communities and how reimagining how to see and hear the needs of every woman toward better conditions for all women. This powerful discussion centers around: An explanation and brief history of the feminist movement and how communities of color often are left behind in this work How the culture, both inside and outside of black communities often stereotype black women as workers, as strong, as able to bear pain differently than their white counterparts; and Rachel’s work to help black women feel cared for–which leads to an amazing ripple effect on families, organizations and communities The Loveland Foundation, which gives black women access to black therapists, to self-care and to other resources that are so often not readily or affordably available Simple ways that women can get involved in the conversation to become clear about this intersection of feminism and race by hearing and telling truths, and to engage in knowledge, empathy, and action. Sometimes the truth can be hard to process, but when there is intentionality in how we exist in our efforts toward benefitting the condition of women, the result is liberation for all women. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I believe that when black women are poured into, it really offers a ripple effect to most other places in our communities and societies.” - Rachel Cargle "The systems are insistent on us not being curious. If we're not curious, they must stay the same. And if they stay the same the people who built them to win will continue winning." - Rachel Cargle "A lot of what I didn't yet know was what it meant to be a black woman in the feminist movement, in spaces full of white women who were having a very different experience than I was, and who were benefiting from the outcomes of our collective work--more than the black women who were doing equal amounts of the work--and sometimes even more of the work in these spaces." - Rachel Cargle Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Photo of Rachel from the Women’s March in 2017 per Huffington Post article “Feminism is White Supremacy In Heels” an article by Rachel Cargle in Harper’s Bazaar Elizabeth Cady Staton Ida B. Wells Be the Bridge Ebony Janice Website The Loveland FoundationElizabeth’s Bookshop & Writing Centre Rich Auntie Supreme Instagram The Great Unlearn Guest’s Links: Rachel’s Website Rachel’s Facebook Rachel’s Twitter Rachel’s Instagram Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re back for more of our Being Seen and Heard series! In a time where it feels like we are struggling to really see and hear one another, there are some bright lights who make it their mission to help one another understand each other a little better. Our guest today, Sara Cunningham, the founder of FreeMomHugs.org, is one amazing example of what can happen when we really see people for who they are and begin to hear their stories. Sara was on the show right at the beginning of her journey with Free Mom Hugs, and now the org—which started with the simple idea of attending Pride parades and holding up a sign that said “Free Mom Hugs,”—has become a national and world wide phenomenon. She uses her own experience as a guide to how she advocates, and is absolutely passionate about connecting with faith, civic, business, and government leaders in efforts to make the world a kinder safer place for our LGBTQIA+ family. Sara and Jen touch on these topics: Sara’s roots in conservative evangelicalism and how she found herself moving “from the church to the pride parade” after she reckoned with her son’s admission that he was gay and going to live in his identity The stories of people who, after coming out, lost their families, were kicked out of their churches, and felt completely alone and found solace and comfort in the simple act of a mom extending a hug Sara’s son Parker’s (as well as her own) journey of self-discovery and then coming to live authentically after seeing others, who had come out in faith environments, survive and thrive after loss How we can affect change with our voices as it relates to legislation that targets the LGBTQIA+ community * * * Thank you to our sponsors! BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! MeCourse: LGBTQIA+ | LGBTQIA+ Parenting e-course from Jen and special guests is available for order. Visit https://www.mecourse.org/lgbtqia-parenting for more info. FOCL | Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I remember there was a time, at the beginning of that journey, I call from the church to the pride parade. It was like reality was setting in. The bubble that I was in, the evangelical conservative mainstream bubble that I was in where everyone looked like me and talked like me, had just shattered. And I wanted to take a banner and put it outside of my house on the front door, like, welcome to the real world. And suddenly it's like my eyes are truly open.” - Sara Cunningham “I think about [my son] Parker early on in his journey of self-discovery and then coming to live authentically. He had people in his life that had survived the loss, who had survived being outed, kicked out of their place of worship and losing their family. Just seeing them go beyond that and thriving and having a place of their own and working and contributing to society; he saw people that had faced what he feared and then came out on the other side of it.” - Sara Cunningham “Our mission statement is that we empower the world to celebrate the community through visibility, education, and conversation.” - Sara Cunningham, about FreeMomHugs.org Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Mama Bears FTL Episode ft. Sydney Hatmaker Kai Shappley’s Website Free Mom Hugs Revolution Conference Kimberly Shappley’s Website Glennon Doyle’s Website How We Sleep at Night: A Mother’s Memoir by Sara Cunningham Good Friend with Jamie Lee Curtis ft Sara Cunningham HRC Oklahoma ACLU Oklahoma Freedom Oklahoma Guest’s Links: FreeMomHugs Website FreeMomHugs Facebook FreeMomHugs Instagram FreeMomHugs Twitter FreeMomHugs Youtube Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re back with our series For The Love of Being Seen and Heard. There is so much right now floating around in culture about what happens to us when we don’t feel like we’re either being seen or heard. For most of us, the longing to be understood by others is a core need. And for some groups or communities, including the disabled community, the task of being seen, heard and understood is more challenging, and we’ll hear why as we talk with disabled scholar-practitioner Dr. Amy Kenny. Dr. Kenny has made it her life’s work to shed light on and help clear up misunderstandings around the abled community’s view of the disabled. Her latest book, My Body Is Not a Prayer Request does a deep dive into one of those communities—places of faith—and the particular biases and unintentional ableism propagated there. Amy compassionately offers insight and solutions toward understanding in a new way. Jen and Dr. Kenny discuss: Common misunderstandings that abled people have toward disabled people plus words and actions they can learn from disabled people toward connectedness The “invisible qualities of God’s divine nature” and how we might be able to accept imperfections in nature, even considering them beautiful, but are unable to accept or find beauty in the imperfections of our bodies “Inspiration porn” a phrase that relates to the overall view of disabled folks being the poster children for overcoming—putting them in the position of feeling as if they are objects on a pedestal and that their sole purpose in life is to inspire the abled The challenges around access for disabled people and how to think differently about the right of access for all people There’s hope in this conversation, and Amy guides us to a place where we can unlearn some ableist tendencies and learn more about a community that has much to contribute to our world. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Chime | Visit https://www.chime.com/apply-debit/?ad=podcast_forthelove to learn how you can benefit from using Chime BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! MeCourse: LGBTQIA+ | LGBTQIA+ Parenting e-course from Jen and special guests is available for order. Visit https://www.mecourse.org/lgbtqia-parenting for more info. Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I'm not ashamed of my disability. It's an intrinsic part of the way that I navigate the world and the way that I am treated by the world and by various communities.” - Dr. Amy Kenny "I grew up in a household and in a church community that taught me that everyone was made in the image of God. And I had the audacity to believe it. Unfortunately, I wasn't treated as though I was made in the image of God a lot of times because I received potions and prayers and all kinds of shaming tactics to try to pray me away, essentially." - Dr. Amy Kenny "It's a beautiful interdependence that disabled folks bring and that we all can co-flourish when we have interdependence with one another." - Dr. Amy Kenny "We create this hierarchy of worth in humanity where we have societally constructed ideas of what's normal, who's intelligent, what's productive enough--who's contributing enough. All of those ideas uphold, ableism, racism, transphobia, colonialism, they're all interconnected." - Dr. Amy Kenny "My body is made of the same stuff as stars. Just watch me shine." - Dr. Amy Kenny “I have learned from the disability community that I have permission to show up as myself.” - Dr. Amy Kenny Resources Mentioned in This Episode: My Body is Not a Prayer Request by Dr. Amy Kenny Georgetown University’s Disability Culture Initiative Stella Young’s Memorial Website Maysoon Zayid’s website Zoom Guest’s Links: Dr. Amy Kenny’s website Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re at the tail end of our For the Love of Calming the Chaos series–and if you’ve gotten a chance to hear the whole series, we hope you’ve been able to take away some actionable items toward further peace in your life. Our last episode in the series is the perfect capper toward extending that ability to calm the chaos during the disruptive times of our lives, but also during the heartbreakingly difficult times. Our guest this week brings us the very comforting message that simply bucking up or trying to cheerlead ourselves into positivity isn't going to cut it. She gives us permission to actively accept our sadness, and then some tools for how to process it and move it from chaos to a place of peace. Katherine May is an international best-selling author, including the books Enchantment Awakening Wonder in An Anxious Age and Wintering: The Power of Rest and Retreat in Difficult Times. Katherine is going to walk us through not only her own story of a hard winter season she endured, and what she learned, but she’ll show us how we can be gentle with ourselves and believe that we deserve peace, no matter the circumstances. Jen and Katherine talk about: When those winter seasons come, just when you think you can’t or will never be happy again and the dark pit feels too overwhelming; that’s typically when the winter begins to cease and recovery begins Giving yourself grace to believe you haven’t done anything wrong if you’re still suffering a week, a month or even six months later - the process of unlearning your old ways of life and relearning new ones can be painful and lengthy Not all the lessons we learn come from happiness, they come from sorrow, and how to accept that Chaos doesn’t just emanate from choices that we've made or that we've onboarded too many things, but sometimes when tragedy or heartache has found its way to our doorstep. Allowing ourselves to rest and retreat at these times is a gift we can all give ourselves. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Rothy’s | $20 off your first purchase by visiting Rothys.com/forthelove Make Me Care About…Podcast | Jen is hosting a special podcast series produced by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. Check out "Make Me Care About..." wherever you get your podcasts. Caraway | Save 10% on your next purchase on all Caraway products by visiting carawayhome.com/forthelove and use code: forthelove Thought-Provoking Quotes: “One of the defining parts of [a season of winter] is that feeling of being trapped in a space with a window onto the outside world. And it seems like everybody else is carrying on and they're all fine. And you are uniquely not fine.” - Katherine May “There's something about how raw you are in that time [of suffering]. So there are moments of intense beauty that are an integral part of this, part of the suffering.”- Katherine May “People who've gone through major winters always seem to look back and say, ‘do you know what? I wouldn't have not gone through it if it meant that I couldn't be who I am now.’ You almost appreciate them because change is always necessary.” - Katherine May “You are not alone. You feel very alone, but you are actually part of a massive community of other people who are going through the same thing as you, but maybe for different reasons. And there's this incredible bond between all of you that might not be obvious, but you can trust this space and you can trust your sadness.” - Katherine May Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Enchantment: Awakening Wonder in an Anxious Age - book by Katherine May Wintering, the Power of Rest and Retreat in Difficult Times - book by Katherine May Guest’s Links: Katherine’s Website Katherine’s Instagram Katherine’s Pinterest Connect with Jen!: Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Calling all parents of adolescents, or those of you who are about to have adolescents in your midst–if you’ve been feeling like you’re not sure what is normal in the emotional landscape of teenagers, we’re here to help. Face it—teenagers are literally in the epicenter of chaos–and because they live in our homes, sometimes it bleeds into our lives too. These kids are in developmental flux and there’s so much on them with school work, keeping up grades, extracurricular activities, friends (not to mention friend drama), anxiety about college—it’s a lot. But we can find ways to stand by them in their emotions, without getting too overcome with our own–and help them manage all this chaos in a way that serves them, and serves the whole family. Our guest this week is the perfect breath of calm in the midst of teen emotional chaos–she’s lived it, she studies it and she practices in it. Dr. Lisa Damour is a New York Times bestselling author who has written a book on the subject called The Emotional Lives of Teenagers, in addition to being an expert on adolescent development and family mental health. She and Jen hit the high points of: The seven developmental tasks that teenagers face Why the emotional world of teenagers is very different than during any other time in their life, and how they navigate emotions and how they express them How to know when a teenager is having a mental health crisis or if it’s just a teenager being a teenager How to manage a meltdown in nine steps Dr. Lisa gives us actionable tools to help understand teenagers and gently guide them as they wade through the somewhat chaotic season of adolescence. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Betterhelp | 10% off your first month. Visit Betterhelp.com/forthelove Make Me Care About…Podcast | Jen is hosting a special podcast series produced by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. Check out "Make Me Care About..." wherever you get your podcasts. Thistle Farms | Use code For the Love for 15%off at checkout. Visit https://thistlefarms.org Thought-Provoking Quotes: “There is so much change in an incredibly short period of time. There are so many demands on that teenager in terms of how they're gonna grow, what is gonna be different between when they were 11 to 18. I mean, those are not the same people” - Dr. Lisa Damour “Teenagers make choices that can have a very dramatic impact on what's available to them in young adulthood, in terms of their options” - Dr. Lisa Damour "I think so often when we think we're listening, we're not listening. We're waiting for [our teenager] to pause so that we can make a suggestion. That's not listening." - Dr. Lisa Damour "Once your kid is into adolescence and is more autonomous and wanting more independence, and they come in close and ask for support--savor it and set your watch by the fact that it is gonna end probably within the next 30 seconds and it's not gonna end in a nice way." - Dr. Lisa Damour Resources Mentioned in This Episode Untangled by Dr. Lisa Damour Under Pressure by Dr. Lisa Damour The Emotional Lives of Teenagers by Dr. Lisa Damour The Ask Lisa Podcast The Little Mermaid Dr. Damour’s Bookmarks Guest’s Links Dr. Damour’s website Dr. Damour’s Instagram Dr. Damour’s YouTube Channel Dr. Damour’s Twitter Dr. Damour’s Facebook Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In our ongoing quest to squash the chaos in our lives, we’re talking to two experts (who are in fact sisters) who literally help us create space for our souls and our homes to breathe. Emily P. Freeman hosts the Do the Next Right Thing podcast where listeners flock to hear her soothing voice guide them with small ways to achieve mental clarity and avoid analysis paralysis when making decisions. Her sister, Myquillyn Smith, better known as The Nester, has the superpower of helping us create peace in the physical places we live with smart solutions that tweak our spaces to bring us calm–because when our homes feel out of control, our inner chaos rises as well. Highlights from this discussion with Jen, Emily, and Myquillyn include: How Emily and Myquillyn played with their Barbies as young girls was indicative of the roads they chose later in life How sometimes the things that we are influenced to purchase to help us conquer chaos can become triggers for chaos (ie: THE BASKET PEOPLE) How to not get bogged down with the pressure to plan your whole life, and how looking at past decisions can inform the decisions you make in the future What it means to “quiet a room” in order to bring calm to your living spaces Join Jen, Emily, and Myquillyn as we all seek a little refreshment for our lives and homes. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Make Me Care About…Podcast | Jen is hosting a special podcast series produced by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. Check out "Make Me Care About..." wherever you get your podcasts. Thistle Farms | Use code For the Love for 15%off at checkout. Visit https://thistlefarms.org Jen Hatmaker & Friends Cruise | Book your spot now at JenHatmaker.com/cruise Thought-Provoking Quotes "We would play Barbies—like I'm talking multiple levels of Barbie life. But the thing is, the way we moved through our Barbie life as kids echoes into adulthood. It is the way that we live our lives as grownups." - Emily P. Freeman "Decision making and discernment is not something we can quit, ignore, graduate, retire from, or often delegate. It is always with us. Unfortunately, sometimes it's great, sometimes it's not. And let's not forget it is a great privilege to be able to make a choice at all." - Emily P. Freeman "There are tons of studies about clutter and chaos and what it does to our literal heartbeat, the stress that we feel." - Myquillyn Smith "Our best teachers for decisions we are going to make in the future are the decisions we've already made in the past." Emily P. Freeman "The work of discernment is so much less about what should I do or not do? It's about can I trust myself?" - Emily P. Freeman “If you think of every single singular item in your space, having a voice over the months, over the years, maybe decades—it gets louder and louder.” - Myquillyn Smith “We think creating a beautiful home is about what we add in, but often it's about what we remove.” - Myquillyn Smith “If you cannot put your decision into a sentence, then it is not time to make the decision yet.” - Emily P. Freeman Resources Mentioned in This Episode The Next Right Thing Podcast The Next Right Thing Book by Emily Freeman The Next Right Thing Guided Journal by Emily Freeman Emily P. Freeman's For the Love Podcast Episode The Cozy Minimalist 17 Questions that Changed My Life by TIm Ferris Iris Murdoch Jamie B. Golden Westmore Beauty 60sec Eye Effect Guest’s Links: Myquillyn's Link's Myquillyn’s Website Myquillyn’s Instagram Myquillyn’s Facebook Emily's Link's Emily’s Website Emily’s Instagram Emily’s Facebook Emily’s Twitter The Next Right Thing Podcast Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s time for a good spring read–and what could be better than taking a literary trip to Paris in the spring? We are so excited to introduce you to Kerri Maher, the brilliant author of our latest book club pick, 'The Paris Bookseller.' Kerri is a rising star in the literary world, known for her captivating historical fiction that transports readers to different times and places. Kerri is the author of several critically acclaimed novels, including 'The Kennedy Debutante' and 'The Girl in White Gloves,' which have been praised for their historical detail and complex characters. In ‘The Paris Bookseller’, Kerri takes us to post-WWI Paris, where Maher brings to life Sylvia Beach, the founder of the bookstore Shakespeare and Company. 'The Paris Bookseller' is a tribute to the power of literature and the strength of women. Come be a part of the conversation here with us, and if you aren’t already a member of the Jen Hatmaker Book Club, jump on over to jenhatmakerbookclub.com after this episode to sign up! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “It's amazing how much I learned about writing fiction from writing the truth.” - Kerri Maher “I spent a lot of time in the research stage of that novel feeling inadequate. Who am I to write about these people? I'm just some housewife with five unpublished novels in my attic. And two writer friends from very different parts of my writing life responded to that comment in almost exactly the same way. They were like, ‘but Kerri, this is your novel, isn't it? I was and that was very liberating to me.” - Kerri Maher “I've really had to embrace representing real people and real time periods. Yes,I want to absolutely do right by them. I want to kind of represent the truth of their essence.. But I also have to cop to the fact and respect the fact that these are my versions of these people.” - Kerri Maher Kerri’s Links Kerri’s website Kerri’s Instagram Kerri’s Facebook Kerri’s Twitter Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode The Kennedy Debutante book by Kerri Maher The Girl in White Gloves book by Kerri Maher All You Have to Do Is Call book by Kerri Maher The Paris Wife book by Paula McClain A Moveable Feast book by Ernest Hemingway Ulysses book by James Joyce Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow book by Gabrielle Zevin The House of Eve book by Sadeqa Johnson The Midnight Library by Matt Haig Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sometimes, bad things happen (obvi, right?). Many times, we know what’s happening to us in the moment is awful and wrong. We know that it’s painful. But sometimes, we don’t know how bad those things were until that pain shows up again in our lives, maybe years later, in a completely different way. And when these seemingly bad things come up, our lives are thrown into a tailspin—creating chaos and unhappiness and we’re not even even sure why. So how do we begin to identify the source of the darkness? How do we walk toward healing when the muck of our trauma is so deep we feel like we can’t move forward? Our guest this week has navigated through this very thing (and is still navigating it). The chaotic parts, the hard parts, the painful parts. Author and This American Life producer Stephanie Foo had found success in her thirties–working at her dream job and in a loving relationship. But behind her office door she was having panic attacks daily and sobbing at her desk. After years of questioning what was wrong (and blaming herself), she was diagnosed with complex PTSD–a condition that happens when trauma occurs again and again over many years. She was determined to understand this diagnosis, and the result of her findings is a beautiful and powerful memoir called What My Bones Know. Jen and Stephanie have an illuminating discussion around these topics: The difference between PTSD and complex PTSD and why that’s an important distinction when it comes to healing How an unresolved mental health issue can impact our physical health, which can manifest (as it did for Stephanie) in panic attacks, joint issues, migraines, and endometriosis. How our traumas can be handed down through previous generations through our genes, but also through how we were (or weren’t) nurtured. What it feels like to pull back the curtain on our coping mechanisms to reveal why we react to things the way we do, or why we put up walls in safe places with safe people Join us for this very real, raw, but gentle conversation as Stephanie’s story sheds light on how to walk away from chaos into healing. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Chime | Visit https://www.chime.com/apply-debit/?ad=podcast_forthelove to learn how you can benefit by using chime BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! Make Me Care About…Podcast | Jen is hosting a special podcast series produced by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. Check out "Make Me Care About..." wherever you get your podcasts. Thought-Provoking Quotes “You can get traditional PTSD from a single traumatic event. So if you're in a car crash, you can get PTSD. Complex PTSD is kind of like if you were in that car crash every week for five years; it's when the trauma occurs over and over and over.” - Stephanie Foo “I felt scared all the time and I was burning out at work. I felt unable to actually produce. It was around 2018, and work had always been my constant source of comfort. And no matter how depressed or anxious I was, I would always be able to be productive. So when I found myself struggling to do that, I felt sort of lost.” - Stephanie Foo “I may have inherited my grandmother's desire and ability to hustle and that might be in my genes. It might be through nurture as well, not nature, and what I was taught as a child. It's kind of a mystery, but it certainly would explain a lot.” - Stephanie Foo Guest’s Links: Stephanie’s Website Stepanie’s Instagram Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Complex PTSD Malayan Emergency Road to Resilience Podcast Elissa Bassist What My Bones Know - book by Stephanie Foo What My Bones Know Audiobook Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome back, Chaos-breakers! We’re here trying to shake things up with another episode in our For the Love of Calming the Chaos–and this ones hitting us right where we live. Relationships; we’ve all got them, some we’re born into, others we choose, and others choose us. But what happens when certain relationships tax our energy, fill us with dread, and drain us of all ability to manage them? We have a great guide today to help us reframe relationships that have become dysfunctional, and how we can minimize the drama and chaos they bring. Therapist Nedra Tawwab is back on the show, and we couldn’t be happier. Nedra’s wildly popular Instagram account brings us life on the daily with her practical tips on recognizing when relationships are out of whack, how they might have gotten there, and how we can survive and thrive in the midst of it. Nedra has written two best selling books Set Boundaries, Find Peace: A Guide to Reclaiming Yourself, and Drama Free: A Guide to Managing Unhealthy Family Relationships. Nedra and Jen get into the following topics around eradicating relationship drama in our lives: The sometimes difficult but very possible ways to begin creating healthy family dynamics Finding the courage to have conversations with people when they hurt our feelings How to create boundaries and what to do when those boundaries aren’t respected Learning how to discern love from dysfunction in our relationships Life is full of chaos and confusion, and it is important to find a balance between healthy relationships and self-care to maintain peace. Nedra provides us the tools to express ourselves, say no, and be open to uncomfortable conversations. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Rothy’s | $20 off your first purchase by visiting Rothys.com/forthelove Make Me Care About…Podcast | Jen is hosting a special podcast series produced by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. Check out "Make Me Care About..." wherever you get your podcasts. Storyworth | Save $10 on your first purchase. Visit Storyworth.com/forthelove Thought-Provoking Quotes “Being a human is a lot of content in and of itself.” - Nedra Tawwab “Adulthood is really interesting because you have this opportunity to grow up and be your own person. But so many of us are still very much our parent's child. And I mean child in the sense that we’re a little child where [our parents] are still very much ruling what we’re able to do–at least when they're with us.” – Nedra Tawwab “How often are we willing to have those conversations and let people know they hurt our feelings?” - Nedra Tawwab “We all have a different capacity to tolerate dysfunctional things.” - Nedra Tawwab “So we really have to disentangle love from dysfunction, because we often think that because I love these people, I have to accept the dysfunction.” - Nedra Tawwab “We have to decide how much we are willing to give of ourselves to be in certain relationships with people, family.” - Nedra Tawwab “The biggest thing we have to focus on is ourselves. And that's really hard because the really easy thing is to change the other person.” - Nedra Tawwab Guest’s Links Nedra’s Website Nedra’s Instagram Nedra’s Facebook Resources Mentioned in This Episode Set Boundaries, Find Peace book by Nedra Tawwab Drama Free book by Nedra Tawwab Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re kicking off a new series called For The Love of Calming the Chaos and we’re looking at all the ways chaos invades our lives, how to identify what’s causing it, and how we can forge a way to calmness (at least some of the time). It’s one thing to be busy, tackling the everyday things that need to happen, to feel like you are pulled in a million different directions. It’s another thing to be overwhelmed, where a sense of hopelessness creeps in that the storm of chaos that surrounds your days might never subside. Author and speaker Alexis Jones hit a wall in a life that looked amazing from the outside, but was teeming with chaos and fear on the inside. After several hard-hitting circumstances knocked the wind out of her, she found herself unable to take even the tiniest step forward after living a life that had been full of activity and accomplishments, checking off all the right boxes–and realized she had lost sight of who she really was. Her latest book Joy Hunter: Messy Face Plants, Radical Love, and the Journey That Changed Everything details the story of how she found her way back to herself in the midst of the chaos–and you can too. Jen and Alexis talk about: The moment Alexis realized how the “gift of falling apart” would show her what really mattered When a tidal wave of chaos causes us to falter, how we can take steps to do something differently What it means to be able to find true joy after true sorrow How you can reconnect with a version of yourself that is real and authentic * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Betterhelp | 10% off your first month. Visit Betterhelp.com/forthelove Storyworth | Save $10 on your first purchase. Visit Storyworth.com/forthelove Make Me Care About | Jen is hosting a special podcast series produced by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. Check out "Make Me Care About..." wherever you get your podcasts. Thought-Provoking Quotes “If I don't have these things that I can pull out of my back pocket and impress you with, then maybe I'm not extraordinary at all. And maybe I am simply an ordinary girl. And for me, that was never enough.” - Alexis Jones “Every single thing that I'd ever thought made me matter, was taken away from me, one after another. And that was the most beautiful invitation I had ever been given to find out who I really was and to start that journey of enoughness.” - Alexis Jones “We live in a society where it's so easy to numb. It's so easy to distract ourselves so that we don't have to feel all the feelings that are uncomfortable.” - Alexis Jones “I did everything right. I played by the rules and I checked all the boxes and I did all the things. Aren't I supposed to be happy?” - Alexis Jones “An ordinary experience like sitting in an RV, eating canned chili with my best friend and my husband, watching an old movie, and thinking, this is the most joyful I have felt in years.” - Alexis Jones Guest’s Links Alexis’ Website Alexis’ Instagram Alexis’ Facebook Alexis’ Twitter Resources Mentioned in This Episode I Am That Girl - book by Alexis Jones Joy Hunter - book by Alexis Jones Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Suleika Jaouad joins our show today to discuss her extraordinary book "Between Two Kingdoms." Suleika shares her story of receiving an early-in-life cancer diagnosis and the way that experience changed her relationship to her sense of community and hope. Suleika is a journalist, writer, speaker, and cancer survivor. She has written for The New York Times, Vogue, and NPR and her memoir “Between Two Kingdoms” details her journey of being treated and recovering from leukemia at the age of twenty two. Join Jen and Suleika as they discuss the following: Suleika's experience of being diagnosed with cancer at a young age and how it changed her perspective in life. The vital role of community and support during challenging times, and how Suleika's own community rallied around her during her illness. The challenges of writing a memoir and going from a journalist to a memoirist, professionally How to practice self compassion while experiencing “Big Grief” in all it’s different stages * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Jen Hatmaker & Friends Cruise | Book your spot now at JenHatmaker.com/cruise Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Use code READ for $5 off your first month at jenhatmakerbookclub.com Me Course — Sex | Sign up for the presale price at 40% off at mecourse.org Thought-Provoking Quotes “I think as a culture we're so focused on positivity and self-improvement and on living our best lives that we sort of forget how to live in discomfort.” - Suleika Jouad “We live in a culture where we're told that if we only work hard enough, we can live the life that we've always wanted to live. I've been told that my whole life. And you know, there's that saying that when you make plans, god laughs.” - Suleika Jouad “I have a post-it note on my desk that's sort of my guiding light in terms of what I'm trying to do when I write. And it says, if you want to write a good book, write what you don't want others to know about you. Yeah. And if you want to write a great book, write what you don't want to know about yourself.” - Suleika Jouad “With the distance of time, I see that what I initially thought of as a complete loss of my identity was actually an invitation to get closer to my truer self.” - Suleika Jouad “I was a planner, I was a doer. I was someone who had a one year plan and a five year plan and a 10 year plan, and all of that went up in smoke when I got sick. Yeah. Um, and I realized that for much of my adult life, all four years of it at that point, uh, I really summed up my sense of self based on achievement, based on my work ethic, based on my output, based on my grade point average. Yep. And all of that was stripped away from me when I got sick. I lost my job overnight. I was dependent on my parents as much as I've been since elementary school. That's right. I lost my independence, even my ability to shower alone, which for someone who doesn't like to ask for help, who had always thought of myself as fiercely independent, that was a hard pill to swallow.” -Suleika Jouad Guest Links Suleika Jouad Website Suleika’s Instagram - @suleikajaouad Suleika’s Twitter - @suleikajaouad Suleik’s Facebook - @SuleikaJaouadPage Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode “Wolfish” by Erica Berry “Heads of the Colored People” by Nafissa Thompson-Spires “Nonviolent Communication” by Marshall B. Rosenberg PhD Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Are you smack dab in the middle of the Sandwich Years? That precarious time where you’re squeezed between the demands of caring for aging parents and still supporting children? We’re here for you, and we’ve got a friend to the show who is living it out in real time, sharing how she’s getting through it all. Jenny Hutt was the host of the Just Jenny Show on Sirius XM and is now hosting her own daily podcast–all while dealing with the long-term care of her father (and his recent death) and the launching of her adult children out into the world. Jenny and Jen discuss unique issues relevant to the Sandwich Generation: Learning to re-calibrate your role as a parent in the lives of your newly “launched into the world” kids Dealing with unresolved parent/child issues that sometimes arise with the death of a parent Recognizing generational anxiety and equipping ourselves and our children with the tools to handle it The importance of relying on a strong network of family and friends to draw from during this time (not being afraid to ask for help). Having the hard conversations with your parents about being prepared for their passing (and also making sure you’re taking care of that for your children too) So whether you’re managing being part of the sandwich generation right now, or you’re mentally preparing yourself for it, or you know someone who is facing it head on, there’s something for all of us to take away from this candid and vulnerable convo with Jen and Jenny. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! FOCL | Your personal dream team of premium hemp CBD + 5 soothing botanicals for a full night of deep, restorative sleep. Get 20% off at FOCL.com using code FORTHELOVE. MeCourse on Parenting Tweens & Teens | Get help parenting during the tween and teen years from Jen and Mercedes Samudio. Visit mecourse.org and sign up today! Thought-Provoking Quotes “Somebody should have said to us before we had kidS: ‘you're gonna have children and you're gonna be tired and it's gonna be fun when they're babies, but it's also gonna be awful when they're babies. And then, they're gonna grow up and they're gonna leave you. And when they leave you, you're gonna feel like they're gone for good. And you're also gonna feel like you are not gonna make it.’” - Jenny Hutt “While your parents are still healthy is when you have to have the conversation [about their affairs] and it's pretty simple. It's things like if there are bank accounts, designate somebody to automatically have the bank account upon your death.” - Jenny Hutt “Ask [your older parents] all the questions you want answers to, because if you don't ask them now, as uncomfortable as they might be, you're never gonna be able to ask them.” - Jenny Hutt “We all find our purpose at different points in our lives. I think that one of my biggest purposes is to show that you can live through things that feel like you can't live through them.” - Jenny Hutt Guest’s Links Website Just Jenny Podcast Instagram Twitter Facebook YouTube Resources Mentioned in This Episode Bunny Eyez Eyewear For You When I Am Gone by Rabbi Steve Leder Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Another special bonus episode from the “Make Me Care About” podcast from the Gates Foundation with our own Jen Hatmaker talking with another amazing expert about things we may not know about and if we did–we would definitely care! When it goes well, giving birth can be a wonderful experience, but when it goes wrong, it can be deadly for mother and child alike. Too often, where you live, your access to quality care, and in some places–the color of your skin–determines whether or not you live or die during birth. In this episode, we have the privilege of hearing from journalist, activist, and mom Elaine Welteroth. Join Jen and Elaine as they discuss: How many women die every year during childbirth and pregnancy The factors and risks contributing to mortality rates Why these deaths are preventable The increased likelihood of death for Black mothers Why the United States has the highest number of maternal deaths among high income countries Gates Foundation & Guest Links Make Me Care About Podcast Series Gates Foundation Elaine Welteroth’s website Resources for this Episode Gender equality strategy Maternal, infant, and child health Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode of our For the Love of the Middle series, renowned clinical psychologist Dr. Shefali returns to the show to discuss her concept of conscious parenting. Those of us in the middle of life who may still be parenting kids at home, or adjusting to parenting adult children who have just launched out into the world–or in any season of the parenting journey, really–will find much to learn as we look back (and forward) at our parenting patterns. Dr. Shefali provides a step-by-step roadmap to help free parents and their children from toxic patterns and expectations, while building a lasting meaningful bond with them. Using her book as a guide, she will introduce us to the five patterns of ego, show us some varying parenting styles (including helping Jen unpack her own parenting style), develop a mindful focus on self-control, and tips on how we can encourage our adult children to parent themselves. Jen and the good doctor will hit some big topics that will inform not only parents, but those of us who wish to discover how we were parented, and how it impacts us now; including: Walking through the definition of conscious parenting and the three stages of the parenting map Debunking the notion that as parents we are supposed to create happy, perfect superhumans by following traditional parenting rules Dismissing the notion that there are good kids and bad kids—and how to avoid using these labels Revealing the five ego patterns parents that parents might not even realize inform their quest to raise amazing children The three reasons why children act out or misbehave and how you can learn not to shame them for it The results of over-parenting and how it shows up in your adult children It’s never too late to become a mindful parent and set an intention to allow your children to become centerstage in their own lives. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Thought-Provoking Quotes “The evolution of the planet depends on the evolution of the parent.” - Dr. Shefali “Everyone wants a new tomorrow. But what we don't realize is that a new future comes with an absolute willingness to disrupt the past.” - Dr. Shefali “There is no such thing as a good kid or a bad kid. We put these labels based on an egoic agenda. So, what kind of kids are there? Just kids–just humans who are terribly flawed like we are, and terribly, but amazingly blissful like we are. They're just this unique combo and they defy labels.” - Dr. Shefali “The good girl taken to the extreme becomes self-sacrificial and she begins to lose her sense of self–it typically happens with girls. Then she's in her mid forties and she's like, ‘who am I?’” - Dr. Shefali “Conscious parenting is not something you are, it's something you become.” - Dr. Shefali “Punishment, shaming, blaming is never sustainable. I cannot tell you how many times a day I tell parents, ‘Listen, you appear to get control in the moment, but long term, it's going to be unforgiving.’” - Dr. Shefali “How do we constantly show our presence [to our adult children]? Unequivocal cheerleading. ‘I'm thinking of you. I miss you. I'm remembering you. I I adore you.’ Letting them know they are on our mind, but not involved in their day-to-day. - Dr. Shefali “When the ego crumbles, proportionately the heart expands, and you then are just this heart-centered being able to connect to other people in a very attuned, compassionate, genuine way. And your children will feel it.” - Dr. Shefali Guest’s Links Dr. Shefali’s website Dr. Shefali’s Instagram Dr. Shefali’s Facebook Resources Mentioned in This Episode “The Conscious Parent” by Dr. Shefali “The Parenting Map” by Dr. Shefali Dr. Shefali’s previous interview on For the Love Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Another special bonus episode from the “Make Me Care About” podcast from the Gates Foundation with our own Jen Hatmaker talking with another amazing expert about things we may not know or care about, but should! This episode gives us the privilege of speaking with Surabhi Rajaram, a Program Officer at the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation who focuses on improving immunization delivery. We dive deep into the world of safe syringes, and why they are so important in saving lives. Surabhi Rajaram is a true expert in her field, with years of experience at the forefront of improving global health. Today she shares her knowledge on the features of an auto-disabled syringe, and how it physically prevents the user from being able to withdraw the syringe again, ultimately preventing the spread of illness. Join Jen and Surabhi as they discuss: Why safe syringes are so important to effective vaccine delivery The importance of investing in scalable syringe manufacturing Improving immunization delivery for a safer world How preparing for disease threats like COVID requires syringe innovation Our guest shares their life’s work around investing in safe and effective syringe manufacturing and delivery and how each of us can make a difference in the world of global health by learning more about this important topic. Gates Foundation & Guest Links Make Me Care About Podcast Series Gates Foundation Guest Surabhi Rajaram’s website Resources for this Episode Vaccine Development and Surveillance Long Term Vaccine Development in Africa PATH Syringe GAP analysis UNICEF Syringes explainer video Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Continuing in our For the Love of the Middle series, we’re having a conversation about something that may impact us as we hit those middle years (or sooner)–caring for our aging parents. With us to be our guide through this sometimes difficult journey is Michelle Boyaner, the director of the documentary film "It's Not a Burden: The Humor and Heartache of Raising Elderly Parents.” As a storyteller, Michelle felt compelled to talk about this particular stage of life, and decided to film her own journey through it with her mother to help others embrace this unique time in a family’s evolution. Jen and Michelle explore the highs and the lows of caregiving for aging parents and how to stay sane and open hearted during the process. Michelle Boyaner is an award-winning filmmaker, writer, and educator who founded production company Greenie Films with her wife, Barbara Greene. Together they have written, directed and produced a variety of short and feature films that tell stories of caring for aging parents, living with HIV and the challenges of mental illness–all told with their signature humor and deep capacity for compassion. Join Jen and Michelle as they discuss: How to know when it's time to step in with your aging parents Honoring and managing your parents feelings of not wanting to be a burden Finding humor in the challenging moments Why caregivers feel so lonely, even when there are so many in the U.S. Moving from anger and frustration with difficult parental relationships to forgiveness We hope you’ll feel less alone on your caregiving journey as Michelle provides practical advice and encouragement as well as some tough love for those in the middle of this common but not often discussed major life experience. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Chime | Increase your credit score with the Chime app! Get a higher credit score today at www.chime.com/ForTheLove Boll&Branch | These are the softest sheets ever. Get 15% off your best night's sleep at www.BollandBranch.com using promo code ForTheLove. Thought-Provoking Quotes “How do you know it’s the right time to step in? If you see a cognitive difference, if there's a change like they're forgetting things–for example, my mom left her keys on the top of the car and sat in the car and didn't know why she couldn't start the car. That’s when you might want to consider stepping in. But how do I start that conversation? How can I place my hand on theirs and then gently sort of take the reins? It’s a tough thing to consider.” - Michelle Boyaner “By the time we get to this place in life [of caring for our] parents, you are playing a montage of their greatest hits and misses, right?” - Michelle Boyaner “It’s important to stay engaged with the humor of all situations if you can. That humor is this little cup of water that helps us in between the hard moments. Caring for aging parents has its absurd moments and leaning into the humor of it can sustain us.” - Michelle Boyaner “You're going to make mistakes. But the thing that becomes most important for those going through caring for an aging parent is to try to find support. Try to find others who have been going through the same thing and ask questions. Talk about how you're feeling. Take care of yourself to fill your tank so that you can help fill your parents' tank.” - Michelle Boyaner Michelle’s Links Twitter Facebook Instagram Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode Greenie Films Webpage Greenie Films: Packed in a Trunk: The Lost Art of Edith Lake Wilkinson, It’s Not a Burden; The Humor and Heartache of Raising Elderly Parents, All Around the Nation, Finished Life by Michelle Boyaner Instagram Account by Heather Spooner: Letter League Liz Hammond’s Poem: “The women who walk us home” Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey there, For the Love Podcast community! We’re excited to share some bonus episodes from a new podcast from the Gates Foundation, hosted by our very own Jen Hatmaker! It's all about getting to know the innovators who are out there changing the world and opening our minds to things that we might not otherwise think about much, like this first episode–poop! You can look forward to several of these bonus episodes popping into your feed that feature amazing conversations with experts who have shared their insights on the importance of things like sanitation systems, syringes, and even digital money. Our first episode in the series is all about…Poop! Jen speaks with expert Shannon Yee, an associate professor at the G.W.W. School of Mechanical Engineering at the Georgia Institute of Technology. Jen and Shannon discuss: How safe sanitation is a cornerstone of human health and society. Where poop goes when it leaves our bathrooms. The importance of investing in safe, scalable bathroom technologies now for future generations When will water scarcity impact our bathrooms and what to do about it. Find out about what happens every time you flush in this very special debut episode. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re back in the middle of life with another installment of our “For the Love of the Middle” series. This episode marks the return of the amazing Dr. Jim Burns to the show. He is an author and founder of HomeWord, a non-profit organization aimed at helping families and individuals strengthen their relationships. Dr. Burns has over three decades of experience as a speaker and is the author of books such as “Life With Your Adult Children” and “Finding Joy in the Empty Nest”. With his typical humor and self-awareness, Dr. Burns draws from his own experiences as a father in the middle of life–and also shares insights from his vast experience working with families and individuals. In this interview he touches on topics like loneliness in older adults, coping with post-divorce friendships, and enabling versus helping your adult children. Join Jen and Dr. Jim Burns as they discuss: Navigating the loneliness felt by those 50 and older and how to prepare for that early on. Finding meaningful friendships as a single person in a coupled world. Giving advice to adult children without sounding critical. When helping becomes enabling with adult children. Easing the burden of the Empty Nest by investing in hobbies and community. Jen and Dr. Burns offer practical advice for maintaining and cultivating adult friendships and how to move through the challenges of parenting adult children with grace. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! BetterHelp | Try convenient and affordable therapy with BetterHelp anytime, anywhere. Give BetterHelp a try and get 10% off your first month at BetterHelp.com/ForTheLove Thought-Provoking Quotes “One of the positive things that I saw was that the people who had good adult friends are the people who did well early on and made decisions to join a club and put themselves out there to meet people outside of the soccer games and kid friends. That planning in advance really helped with the empty nest syndrome.” -Dr. Jim Burns “American adults at 50+ tend to be very lonely people. In fact, there's a lot of studies on this and it's because they don't have replenishing relationships.You know, one of the best phrases that I have in my head on this is, a you know, successful and a well lived life is never accidental. And that takes time.” -Dr. Jim Burns “If we are always giving our kids advice, which we have been pretty good at for 20 of their years, that advice can be taken as criticism. Even if it's good advice! What they see is that you don't trust them to be an adult.” -Dr. Jim Burns “What we have to understand as parents, just like when they were five, is that the experience is a better teacher than advice. So you can say to your kid, "Don't touch that fire." But they're gonna touch the fire sometime and then they'll quit touching the fire because they did it one time and it burnt. But it's really hard for us as parents to trust them to learn from their own experiences.” -Dr. Jim Burns “As a parent, the question we have to ask is, are we helping or are we enabling dependency? And a lot of parents I think are enabling dependency as in, they mean to help. But sometimes we're enabling dependency and doing that in a way that doesn't help.” - Dr. Jim Burns Jim’s Links Website: www.homeword.com Facebook: @JimBurns Twitter: @DrJimBurns Instagram: @drjimburns YouTube: @homewordtoday Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode Homeward New Life Live Dr. Burns Books: Finding Joy in the Empty Nest, Life with Your Adult Children Dr. Burns on Jen Hatmaker in 2018 Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s here! Our next series, “For the Love of the Middle” kicks off this week. Many of us are at that middle stage of life, and if we aren’t, we’re going to get there eventually. This series brings life, hope and humor to a period of life which can at times be surprising, confusing, but ultimately, steeped in the wisdom of years lived and the harder work of our 20’s and 30’s behind us. We’re ringing in the start of this series with an amazing first guest; Mary Pipher, a clinical psychologist, anthropologist, and author. In her full scope of work, Mary has pioneered important conversations around motherhood and raising girls. Mary was the first to bring the effects of culture on mental health to the mainstream, especially for women and girls. She has a deep understanding of how culture can shape our thoughts, feelings, and behavior. Her most recent work has focused on aging intentionally, peppered with her own experience and her work has inspired many people to rethink the way we approach mental health and aging within our society. Join Mary and Jen as they discuss: - Pipher's background in psychology and how she became engaged in the cultural conversations about girlhood. - The importance of cultivating personal resilience and adaptability in aging. - How society impacts the mental health of girls and women at different stages of life. - The cultural scripts that influence girls' body image and sexuality, and how they differ from reality. - The role of caregivers and the challenges they face in taking care of aging family members. Mary Pipher's work is groundbreaking in exploring the connections between culture, mental health, and their impacts on aging. Her insights are instrumental in shaping the way we approach mental health issues and caregiving, and her activism and writing continue to help women all over the world. Thank you to our sponsors! Boll & Branch | These are the softest sheets ever. Get 15% off your best night's sleep at www.BollandBranch.com using promo code ForTheLove. Jen Hatmaker & Friends Cruise | Book your spot now at JenHatmaker.com/cruise MeCourse | Let’s join sexologist Dr. Celeste Holbrook and Jen as they talk about real steps you can take to improve your sex life. Head to MeCourse.org/love101 to register. Thought-Provoking Quotes! “One of the things I really love about my life as a 75 year old is I'm very busy, but I can wake up every morning and decide what I want to be busy at. And what a gift that is.” - Mary Pipher “Every life stage has its joys and its challenges as you know. We know that there's a lot of research that women get happier as they age. They're the happiest demographic in the world.” - Mary Pipher “if you don't become better, you become bitter. Right? You either grow or you shrink. You don't get to stay the same without growing. We all age, but we don't all grow. And the secret of being happy is growing.” -Mary Pipher “I very much believe we all find what we're looking for. And if what we're looking for is joy and love and kindness and beauty and laughter, that's what we find.” -Mary Pipher “So one of the goals of this life state is learning to detach and let go--acceptance of the fact that my world will not be as popular as before. And that means that the light I find is not in other people's eyes, it's gotta be in my own heart.” -Mary Pipher Guest’s Links! Mary Pipher's Website - www.marypipher.com Mary Pipher's Facebook - @authormarypiper Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode Mary Pipher's Books: Hunger Pains, the American Woman's Tragic Quest for Thinness, Reviving Ophelia, Women Rowing North, Seeking Peace, The Shelter of Each Other Simone De Beauvoir: The Second Sex Jane Jarvis - American Jazz Pianist Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Every person is sexy just because they’re alive, according to this week’s guest in our For the Love of Sex Series; Dr. Alexandra Solomon. Jen & Dr. Solomon talk about how we can discover how to engage with our sexuality free from judgment or expectation. Dr. Alexandra Solomon is the author of bestselling books, “Loving Bravely” and “Taking Sexy Back” which both seek to empower women to reclaim their sexual journeys. As a highly acclaimed psychologist at Northwestern University, Dr. Solomon regularly presents her findings to people all over the world. Join Dr. Solomon and Jen as they discuss: Talking about sex with your partner How to stop settling for less in the bedroom Objectively reflecting on your sexual journey without judgment The real impact of trauma on our sexual selves How desire shifts over the course of a relationship Dr. Solomon explains the basic premise that undergirds her work; that every person has the right and ability to experience pleasure and joy and connection through sex. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “What stands out first and foremost about women and sex is that we are so completely objectified from the time we're little. That's the nature of patriarchy, is to objectify women. And we learn to objectify ourselves. I don't know how it is for you, but I know I have forever related to my body as a forever fixer-upper project.”- Dr. Alexandra Solomon “There's an idea that sexiness is defined from the outside in. So in my book, "Taking Sexy Back," that's what we're taking back. We're taking back this idea that sexiness is externally defined. That actually, our “sexy” lives right here inside of us, and it always has. Your sexuality is a part of yourself. It's a part of who you are. It's your embodied relationship with touch and physical expression and pleasure and creativity and play.” - Dr. Alexandra Solomon “There's going to be dry spells. There's going to be mismatched libidos. There's going to be menopause. There's going to be childbirth and job changes and medical diagnoses. Things are going to happen. So I want couples to be together, shoulder to shoulder, looking at the problem together. It's not my problem or your problem. It's us looking at our sexual connection. How do we as a couple cultivate this, nurture it, tweak it over time? Making love as 50-year-olds is going to look and feel different than making love as 23-year-olds.” - Dr. Alexandra Solomon “We think that if we're sex positive, it means that we're these super confident vixens and divas, and that we have to be up for anything. But we all struggle with this idea of, "Wait, can I be sex positive and a bit timid? Can I be sex positive and what we would call, quote-unquote, 'vanilla,' or not super interested in being kinky or pushing edges? Sex positivity basically means coming in with the idea that sex is natural and normal, and we're all sexual, and what we're interested in is not weird or pathological. It's coming in from a foundation of positivity.” - Dr. Alexandra Solomon Guest’s Links: Dr. Solomon’s Website Dr. Solomon’s Instagram - @dr.alexandra.solomon Dr. Solomon’s Twitter - @ahsolomon Dr. Solomon’s Facebook - @dralexandrasolomon Dr. Solomon’s YouTube - @alexandrahs1 Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Reimagining Love Podcast Dr. Solomon’s books: Loving Bravely & Taking Sexy Back E-Course: Marriage 101 for the Grown and Sexy Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As part of Jen’s dedication to bringing her community sex education and sexual liberation, we’re opening up a book club episode to everyone. Today Jen’s talking to the original badass sex educator — Emily Nagoski. Emily created a sea change in the wider culture of how we talk about women’s sexuality and make space for the variety of experiences for women and sex. Since then, she’s become a celebrated speaker and the go-to expert on women’s sexuality. She recently updated “Come as You Are” as the sex science evolved and we’re excited to talk about it. In this Jen Hatmaker Book Club episode, Jen and Emily discuss: Sex not being a biological drive Connecting to your own body as a birthright Your sexuality being yours and pleasure is the measure of it The weight on women to perform pleasure The power of mindfulness and connecting to your body How to maintain a successful long term sexual relationship with a partner * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Jen Hatmaker & Friends Cruise | Book your spot now at JenHatmaker.com/cruise Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Use code READ for $5 off your first month at jenhatmakerbookclub.com Me Course — Sex | Sign up for the presale price at 40% off at mecourse.org Thought-Provoking Quotes “Pleasure is the measure. It is not how often you have sex or how much you crave sex. It is not what you do. It is not who you do it with, or in what room, or in what position. It is whether or not you like the sex you are having.” - Emily Nagoski “If a feeling happens in you and you're like, "I don't know where this is coming from," that's totally fine. Insight is not required. But in the same way that we complete the stress response cycle, feelings are tunnels, you have to go through the darkness to get to the light at the end.” - Emily Nagoski “We are in a bad moment around trans rights, around gay rights, around reproductive rights. A very dark moment where misogyny is rising, violence against the LGBTQIA2+ community is rising, and I think a conversation that centers with women's sexual pleasure is a very moderate place to be having a conversation. People can have a conversation and feel confident talking about their own sexual pleasure, which makes it easier to recognize that, "Oh, everyone has a right to this. Everyone has a right to basic bodily autonomy. Everyone has a right to experience the pleasure their body is capable of experiencing." - Emily Nagoski “When you release pain, it means you have to move through this pain, and a lot of us have spent a very long time hiding from, or medicating, or just tolerating an incredible, intense amount of pain and suffering that was imposed on us, that we never chose for ourselves, and we know that we can just keep marching forward with that pain. And the first dip your toe into processing those difficult experiences feels terrifying.” - Emily Nagoski “bodies are a disappointment sometimes. They are complicated, and people have feelings about them, but you get this life, your body is the one and only thing you have on the day you're born, that you still have with you on the day you die, and it's the gift that there is of living a human life.” - Emily Nagoski “There's not a linear progression from broken to normal to perfect. That is not how sex works. We are all always moving through the cycle from the wounds that were created in our bodies in the first couple few decades of our lives to the healing that we're doing for ourselves now.” - Emily Nagoski Guest Links Dr. Emily’s Website Dr. Emily’s Instagram Dr. Emily’s Facebook Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode Burnout: The Secret to Unlocking the Stress Cycle Book Come as You Are Book Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As our guest today says, “Everybody is here because somebody had sex.” Today we talk to Brandon Kyle Goodman about coming out from the shadows of your own desire. We’re looking at a new era of sex positivity in pop culture and in our lives. In this episode we explore themes from Brandon’s book: You Gotta Be You: How to Embrace This Messy Life and Step Into Who You Really Are. Listen as Jen and Brandon discuss: Sex in Culture, The Importance of Diverse Representation Subverting Gender Norms in the Bedroom Understanding Brandon’s Non-Binary Gender Identity Exploring your Sexual Identity with Radical Self Acceptance and Love Coming Out and the Importance of Chosen Family It’s a new day for sex in our media, our bedrooms, and in our minds and hearts! This conversation illustrates the unbelievable freedom to be found in honoring your sexual identity. Share a moment with Jen and Brandon as they walk the path towards personal sexual liberation and finding peace within yourself. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I fully believe that if you can tap into the vulnerability in the bedroom, you'll find your power everywhere else.” - Brandon Kyle Goodman “I always say self-love is the thing that saved my life. It is real. Loving yourself and knowing that you're worthy and filling your cup up. Pop culture tells you that your body, your skin, your gender is wrong. It is a radical act to love yourself in our world, but get about the business because on the other side of that is a life worth living.” - Brandon Kyle Goodman “All of us exist because somebody had sex. That's how this works. That's why you're here, so why are we pretending our parents don't do it? It's all as you said, it's a separate thing. It's put in a box and we don’t talk about it. Why can't we all be talking and learning and exploring and saying, "Oh, how did you ask about that? How did you get him to do that? How did you get her to do that? How did you navigate this?" The more we don't talk about it, the more shame we have, and so sex positivity is so important.” -Brandon Kyle Goodman “There's so much shame I think that queer folks inherently have around their sexuality. I think women also have this. No, I don't think–I know women also have this. Our bodies are policed, our sexuality is policed.” - Brandon Kyle Goodman “I would say you have one life. Are you going to live it for you? Or you can live it for somebody else. I had a teacher who was in the closet and I found out after his mother passed that he finally came out, but at that point, he was in his 50s, and now it's this whole life that you've missed for this other person. Do it in your own time, but don't miss out on your life for somebody else's approval.” -Brandon Kyle Goodman “Let's hold multiple truths. Multiple things get to be true. The freedom to be you can be liberating and allow you to live your best life, but also there is a pain and a sadness and a longing from losing the people that may not be able to support you on that journey.” -Brandon Kyle Goodman Brandon’s Links Website: www.brandonkylegoodman.com Insta: @brandonkylegoodman Twitter: @brandonkgood Youtube: @brandonkgood Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Brandon Kyle Goodman acts and writes for shows: Big Mouth, and Human Resources on Netflix Brandon Kyle Goodman’s Book “You Gotta Be You: How to Embrace This Messy Life and Step Into Who You Really Are” Tricia Hersey’s Book “The Nap Ministry” The Nap Ministry’s Instagram Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For this episode of the Sex series, we’re getting some adult sex education we wished we had learned when we were younger. Specifically around messages young men received around sex, and how this now manifests with toxic masculinity which unfortunately, seeps into the bedroom. Our guest today helps us find ways we can change these sexual narratives. While not all of us are in sexual relationships with men, the reality is that the way in which men perceive their status in the bedroom affects their roles outside of the bedroom. And when toxic masculinity is driving that inner monologue, we all lose. So today we’re addressing the ways this can affect us all, not only the cis hetero men in our lives. A licensed sex coach and therapist, Cam Fraser teaches sex education for cis hetero men and their partners. As someone who has been hurt by unhealthy masculine culture, he’s passionate about changing toxic masculine narratives that affect us all, and freeing men up to be the fully realized humans they are longing to be (whether they know it or not). In this episode, Cam and Jen discuss: Ideas on how to start conversations with your partner about sex Desire discrepancies in relationships and the difference between responsive and spontaneous libido Taking responsibility for your own arousal The spectrum of intimacy inside and outside the bedroom Unhealthy sexual narratives that feed toxic masculinity * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Betterhelp | Visit BetterHelp.com/ForTheLove to get 10% off your first month Thirdlove | Visit ThirdLove.com/forthelove and get 20% off your first order Thought-Provoking Quotes "I think that it is a very detrimental story we are telling each other as men--that men's libido is high and unwavering and it's just purely physical, there's no emotions attached to it--men just want sex all the time. And women are telling men that too because we all got that same story." - Cam Fraser “Overall we see a lot of over-pathologizing, over-medicalizing of male sexuality. I think that's a real issue, but one of the major ones I see is, "Oh, I'm not man enough because I don't want sex all the time," or, "I'm not jumping my partner every five minutes, so I must be broken.” - Cam Fraser “It's important to understand. There's a difference between physical arousal and mental subjective arousal.” - Cam Fraser “I think we live in quite a sex and pleasure negative society. And so conversations around sex are still, even though we're pushing for them to be more mainstream, they're still considered quite taboo.” - Cam Fraser “Conversations around sex can be really charged. If you're able to take some of the intensity out of those conversations and take some of the seriousness out of those conversations and keep it a little bit more playful, keep it a little bit more curious and lighthearted, then that's going to serve you well.” - Cam Fraser “There is a need for men to diversify their intimacy in terms of how they get their intimacy needs met.” - Cam Fraser “It's super important to have intimacy needs met in a diverse amount of ways. Because if you don't and then you get into a relationship and your partner is the only person that you can do that with, you're putting a lot of pressure and responsibility on your own as well and that can be detrimental to a relationship.” - Cam Fraser Cam’s Links Cam's Instagram - @thecamfraser Cam's TikTok - @thecamfraser2.0 Cam’s Website Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode Dan Savage Website Brené Brown's episode with Jen Hatmaker Trevor Noah on Lack of Male Intimacy Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Calling all book nerds! Are you looking for a place where your book-loving heart can flourish? Join us at jenhatmakerbookclub.com, and become one of our sisters in nerdiness. For January 2023 we’re excited to connect with an author who worked with Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg and penned a book featuring her many writings and thoughts titled My Own Words.. As one of Judge Ginsburg’s official biographers, Mary selected the writings and co-wrote the introductions to each chapter, providing biographical context and quotes gleaned from hundreds of interviews they had the pleasure of conducting the illustrious RGB. She shares about the special moments she had with the judge herself, in addition to some of her more notable writings, which are truly inspiring. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Jen Hatmaker & Friends Cruise | Book your spot now at JenHatmaker.com/cruise Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Use code READ for $5 off your first month at jenhatmakerbookclub.com Me Course — Sex | Sign up for the presale price at 40% off at mecourse.org Thought-Provoking Quotes “Sometimes I think people become famous and important, and then they say, ‘Okay, now I can throw a few scraps.’ But this was not [Ruth Bader Ginsburg] from the very beginning. Even in her very first briefs, she would cite in the brief, or even put as an author of the brief, someone whose work she found incredibly important with their permission, even though they had nothing to do with the case. It meant a lot to her to give credit to others who had inspired her. “ - Mary Hartnett “[Judge Ginsburg] did see that especially for younger people, learning the story and in really challenging times to represent this idea that things still can be better and more fair for everyone in the future, I think she got that.” - Mary Hartnett “[Judge Ginsburg] strongly believed that gender equality is good for everyone. Gender discrimination hurts everyone. It hurts men, women, others, children, our society, our country, our world. And so she firmly believed that.” - Mary Hartnett “Change wasn't just this intellectual thing that mattered to her. It was changing individuals' lives so that a young girl could hope to be a Supreme Court Justice or an astronaut. Not just a boy could have those hopes and dreams.” - Mary Hartnett “Everyone can't be Ruth Bader Ginsburg, but everyone can do something on the issues that they care about, which may be completely different than the issues that she cared about.” - Mary Hartnett Guest’s Links Mary Hartnett Author Page Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As part of our For the Love of Sex series, we are talking to a Hollywood intimacy coordinator about the nitty gritty of consent, the emerging role of intimacy coordinators in Hollywood, and the future of creating consent culture on film and TV sets. There are ripple effects into the wider culture at large that happen when we prioritize safety and consent. A viral content creator on TikTok and CEO of her own company, Jessica Steinrock is helping change the way we understand consent on TV & film sets. Our favorite quote of hers is ‘’‘Yes’ means nothing unless ‘No’ is an option.” In this episode, Jessica and Jen discuss: The historical context of consent in film and TV How intimacy coordinators cultivate consent Jessica’s definition of consent The power of pairing media literacy and sex education With her own company, Jessica is providing a framework for how we can experience consent in a variety of workplaces and helping change the way an entire industry approaches consent. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Boll & Branch | Use promo code FortheLove and get 15% off your first set of sheets Me Course — Sex | Sign up for the presale price at 40% off at mecourse.org Thought-Provoking Quotes "When actors have a sense of what's going to happen to their bodies, they know the arc of the scene. They have a time to think about how their character would want or move in those positions. They then layer on their acting onto this movement scaffold. And we create a better story. Because when actors are safe, they do their best work." - Jessica Steinrock "I love steamy scenes. I love spicy scenes. I am a romantic connoisseur in my media. I love it all. And I think what makes me love it though is knowing that these actors are safe while doing that, these actors are excited to tell those stories. That they weren't coerced into doing it because they think it's going to give them their break." - Jessica Steinrock “[intimacy coordination] is a relatively new field and a rare field where women are the majority. What we need to see is a more diverse pool of intimacy coordinators. So, that we have more of those voices impacting and supporting women of color, black trans women, actors who have historically marginalized characteristics.” - Jessica Steinrock Jessica’s Links Jessica's Instagram - @intimacy_coordinator_ Jessica's TikTok - @intimacycoordinator Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode Intimacy Directors and Coordinators Website SAG-ATRA Intimacy Coordinator Resources Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

“Good girls”, “naughty girls”, women with too tight skirts or too high heels. Women’s sexuality is being scrutinized and judged by forces outside of ourselves no matter what form it takes. Our guest today is Gina Gutierrez who seeks to empower women to stop listening to these outside voices and start listening to our inner eros by tuning in and turning on with audio erotica. We could not be more…excited. TedX speaker with over 1M views, and member of the Forbes Under 30 2020 list, Gina Gutierrez is celebrated for her work focusing on using the imagination to ignite women’s sexuality. With her co-founder Faye Keegan she created the app Dipsea to help women define their desire in an empowered way through audio erotica stories. In this episode Gina and Jen discuss: The link between sexual fulfillment and the imagination Celebrating selfishness in prioritizing sexual pleasure Uncovering and healing the shame of “feeling different” How embracing the erotic gives us our power With Dipsea, Gina is helping provide a framework for how we can safely explore our fantasies and prioritize our own pleasure resulting in us being better lovers, caregivers and friends. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Thistle Farms | Visit ThistleFarms.org and use promo code FortheLove to get 15% off your order Better Help | Visit BetterHelp.com/ForTheLove to get 10% off your first month Jen Hatmaker & Friends Cruise | Book your spot now at JenHatmaker.com/cruise Thought-Provoking Quotes "Desire isn't a problem to be solved — it's a fire to be stoked." - Gina Gutierrez "The brain is the biggest sex organ and everyone can benefit from expanding their sexual imagination." - Gina Gutierrez “This idea of just giving up on what's possible to make you feel good and excited and make you want to turn towards your partner versus away from them or whatever it means to you, that felt like such a loss.” - Gina Gutierrez “Nobody ever suggested to us that it was important or valuable to find out what turns us on ever. That was nothing that was ever suggested to us. In fact, it was kind of the opposite. A lot of us came up feeling like this is not something good girls say, we do not have this conversation.” - Gina Gutierrez “Maybe you don't have less of an interest in sex than you thought. Maybe you function differently than you thought. And maybe actually products, experiences, and stories that made you feel more comfortable and made your brakes less, 'I don't want that,' stop slamming your brakes so much could make you relax into pleasure." - Gina Gutierrez Dipsea’s Links Dipsea Website - www.DipseaStories.com Dipsea Facebook - @DipseaStories Dipsea Twitter - @DipseaStories Dipsea Instagram - @DipseaStories Dipsea TikTok - @DipseaStories Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode Dipsea Website with Jen’s Link (dipseastories.com/jenhatmaker) Ted Talk by Gina Gutierrez A Billion Wicked Thoughts Dr. Emily Nagoski: Come As You Are Dr. Emily Nagoski - For the Love Podcast Episode Dr. Emily Nagoski: Podcast Audre Lorde reads Uses of the Erotic: The Erotic as Power on YouTube Audre Lorde’s “Uses of the Erotic: The Erotic as Power” Essay Text OMG Yes - The Science of Women's Pleasure Jen’s FTL Enneagram Series Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to our first episode in our For the Love of Sex series! We’re excited to break open this topic and find ways to cultivate what sexual health means for each of us and lay down toxic perspectives surrounding sex in our lives. Today we’re talking about sexual shame and how that can show inside and outside the bedroom. Matthias Roberts is a psychotherapist, author and podcaster. He wrote a book on sexual shame called “Beyond Shame: Creating a Healthy Sex Life on Your Own Terms” and is committed to helping people find freedom feeling shame around sex. Jen and Matthias discuss: A working definition of what sexual shame is How Matthias’s perspective on sex shifted after coming out in a Christian fundamentalist home Questions to ask ourselves to develop our own sexual ethic How sexual shame can affect every area of our life Ways to stay curious and let go of shame about sex Matthias’s queer theological perspective on sex The ways shame can seep into our lives is surprising. Join Jen and Matthias as they unpack, with a compassionate lens, how to stay curious and work toward kicking the shame-filled parts of our sex life to the curb. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Chime | Sign up for your Chime Credit Builder Visa Credit Card today Chime.com/ForTheLove Thistle Farms | Visit ThistleFarms.org and use promo code FortheLove to get 15% off your order Jen Hatmaker & Friends Cruise | Book your spot now at JenHatmaker.com/cruise Thought-Provoking Quotes “Sexuality is also a really core part of who we are. How we experience or do not experience sexuality is identity construing, and it should be. It is part of who we are.” - Matthias Roberts “We have our shame, we have our sexuality, and then we have our divine, or our beliefs around the divine, and what the divine commands of us or doesn't command of us around our sexuality. And when those things play together, we can get a pretty nasty mix really quickly.” - Matthias Roberts “So many of us try to push shame aside. That's our default, "Push it aside. We're not going to pay attention to this. This hurts." Or we get shut down by it, but we never quite take the time, or a lot of people don't take the time to really listen and figure out what the shame is actually telling us. And I think that's a really, really important place to start, because if we don't know what we're working with, the particularities of the shame, then how do we actually work with it?” - Matthias Roberts “I think there's something around queerness and the ways that queer sexual ethic or queer ways of thinking around sexuality can actually free everyone up.” - Matthias Roberts “What would it mean for our bodies to be good as they are right now? Can we get curious about that? If we feel I have a bad body or that sense of inferiority, what does it mean that my body as it is, right now, in this moment, might actually be good and can bring me pleasure?” - Matthias Roberts “Shame disconnects us. It disconnects us from our bodies, from our communities, from our partners. Sex connects us. It is ultimately a connecting force. So we can actually use our sexuality as a way to reconnect to our bodies, reconnect to our partners.” - Matthias Roberts Guest’s LinksMatthias Roberts Website Matthias’s Facebook Matthias’s Instagram Matthias’s Twitter Resources Mentioned in This Episode Beyond Shame: Creating a Healthy Sex Life on Your Own Terms For The Love Podcast Episode with Jay Stringer on Purity Culture For The Love Podcast Episode with Brene Brown on Vulnerability Sex, God, & the Conservative Church Pure: Inside the Evangelical Movement That Shamed a Generation of Young Women and How I Normal Gossip Podcast Holy Runaways: Rediscovering Faith After Being Burned by Religion Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

So much is happening in real time in our world, obviously. And as a weekly podcast we can’t always speak immediately into the events that happen around us that need a bigger conversation. So we decided to take the time to look at those happenings, find some people who could walk us through the big events that have happened in the last 4 or 5 months and pop in with some conversations outside of our regular series for our premium subscribers. We’re talking about events that have us rethinking our stand on different issues, legislation being passed or overturned, and justice issues–all in an effort to understand what's at the core of each one and figure out how to react. This week, we’re looking at issues around gun control. Wherever your entry point into this discussion is, it’s something that’s been top of mind for many of us. You may find this shocking, since the divides on this are reported with great zeal via the media, but according to Gallup, a great majority of us believe in the right to own guns. And a whopping 92% of us favor background checks on Every. Single. Gun. Purchase. So, what’s the big hubbub about gun control if we’re nearly all in agreement? Because right now background checks aren’t required for every single gun purchase. Millions of guns have found their ways into the hands of those who are using them for criminal purposes, via sellers who don’t do background checks. Consider that fact alongside the stat that firearm deaths are the highest among teens and young adults between 18-34. How can this be, and how can we change it? That’s what we’re stepping through in this episode with Diana Oestreich, a veteran combat medic who served in Iraq. Diana’s an activist who is a self-proclaimed “peace wager” and she’s returning to our show to walk us through what’s going on and what we can do to change the situation to make the world a safer place for our kids. And spoiler alert: it doesn’t require everyone to have to hand over their guns. Thought-Provoking Quotes “Just this year, guns are the number one killer of kids in America. That demands action and I'm committed to it.” – Diana Oestreich “I totally believe that it is A-okay to own a gun. I come from a family of hunters, I am the daughter, the mom, the sister of hunters. Is there a place in the American battery of rights to own an AR-15–a weapon of war? Do you need a weapon of war? No, you don't. Do you know that a grenade is a weapon of war? It is illegal. No American can own a grenade. And that’s a good thing.” - Diana Oestreich “The antidote to despair is action.” – Diana Oestreich “The most powerful thing is that our kids know that they are part of doing good in the world. That's something that will make them resilient to violence.” – Diana Oestreich Diana’s Links Website Instagram Twitter The Waging Peace Project Connect with Jen !Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode of our What If Series asks; what if we looked inward to discover what makes us tick, who are the voices shaping us, and why are we choosing them? We also consider the question; who’s the most important person in your life? The answers most people give are what you’d expect, but our guest this week proposes that we dig deeper to find a different answer that will ultimately change how we approach life. Our guest, Dr. Corey Yeager, is a psychotherapist for the Detroit Pistons, a life coach, and an author. He appeared in the documentary, The Me You Can’t See, by Oprah and Prince Harry, and recently released a book that poses 40 questions we should be asking ourselves as we create a roadmap to discover our purpose and explore who we want to become. In this episode Dr. Corey and Jen discuss: Becoming a psychotherapist for NBA players How self talk affects our outlook Why asking intentional big questions can reframe our life How the timing is now for a love affair with yourself The most important conversation you can have is the one with yourself. Dr. Corey gives us the guidance and encouragement to do just that. Join Jen and Dr. Corey in an insightful discussion of self love, self talk, and staying curious. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Thought-Provoking Quotes “Most people have never thought about being a genius, ever. They would tell you, ‘I'm not a genius. I'm not a genius.’ But if someone says, ‘No. Be still. Think through this. Yes, you do have a genius. What is it?’ If you had to sit with that and play with that and grind with that, it would produce ... And actually not just the answer. The answer is not the key. The process towards the answer. The things that you play with, that you work through, that you cried through, that you laugh about. That is what we want more of." - Dr. Corey Yeager “I believe that at about nine, 10, 11, up into the 12, 13 year old range, we are handed a set of values. Our people around us, my grandparents, my mom, dad, my brother, they handed me a set of values. I didn't really get much say in it. They handed them to me and I agreed with it because I love my people. So then after I'm 12, 13, 14 years old, I move into the world holding those values, moving through the world with those values and never really re-engaging or checking in with myself to say, does that still work for me?.” - Dr. Corey Yeager “Discomfort should be an indicator that I'm growing into something that is quite important. So I think this indicator is something that will give us a signal.” - Dr. Corey Yeager “I submit that it is time for us to have a love affair with ourselves. I need to love me. And I'm glad my wife loves me and I'm glad my mama loves me and my kids love me. I'm glad, Jen, that they love me. But the most important love that I'm going to have is mine. If you don't know yourself, it's very hard to love yourself.” - Dr. Corey Yeager “So instead of using jealousy and just letting it sit, how about if we looked at those jealous moments, understood it as desire, and allowed that to become a GPS that told us where we wanted to head.” - Dr. Corey Yeager “We all hold the answers to everything we need. Everything that happens in my life today, I am fully equipped for. Anything that occurs, I'm fully equipped for, for this moment. And if we trust that, if we understand our lives as such, then we can move with confidence.” - Dr. Corey Yeager Guest’s LinksDr. Corey Yeager Website Dr. Corey's Facebook Dr. Corey's Twitter Dr. Corey’s Instagram Resources Mentioned in This Episode How Am I Doing: 40 Conversations to Have with Yourself The Me You Can’t See Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode of our What If Series asks what if you have big dreams and what if you didn’t let failure stop you from trying? Our guest is entrepreneur Kendra Scott, an intrepid businesswoman who built a billion dollar business while carrying her baby boy to sales meetings. She started with $500 and eventually created her dream, a 97% women run business that gives back to the community in meaningful ways. She breaks down the “why” and the “how” of building a jewelry empire and that asking for help from her people was key to her success. In this episode Kendra and Jen discuss: Failing at her first business with a kid and no college degree Where her “Why” came from Intentionally building a woman and mom-centric business The importance of asking for help The What If’s of our past can bury us under, so we never dream of our next things. But some of our next steps can be found in the rubble of our failures. Join Jen and Kendra in an honest discussion of entrepreneurship, motherhood, and community. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Third Love | Visit ThirdLove.com/forthelove and get 20% off your first order Boll & Branch | Use promo code FortheLove and get 15% off your first set of sheets Jen Hatmaker & Friends Cruise | Book your spot now at JenHatmaker.com/cruise Thought-Provoking Quotes “Because the ones that don't even try never know. And even if it doesn't work out, even if you fail. And I failed, I failed in my first business, that failure was the greatest education I ever got into business. It was my bridge to help me build the successful business I have today. And I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you, Jen if I didn't have that failed business. So I think for anyone out there scared, I always say, and I wrote this in Born to Shine, in my book, is put yourself in the worst case scenario, really think about it. And then you go, okay, you lived in that moment, and it wasn't so bad. Now I know what that's like. So now I'm going to just try to go for it." - Kendra Scott “Sometimes, we get ourselves buried in what ifs of our past and they hold us down from moving forward to our what ifs of the future, the dreaming what ifs.” - Kendra Scott “It is so hard in the moment to sometimes see the forest through the trees kind of thing, to see your way through. And it sometimes takes getting to that other place to then realize and you can see the path exactly back to where you began and why you had to go there.” - Kendra Scott “And I think if we can start taking those nos or the naysayers or the dream stealers and start to actually, when they say those things, get excited, make it more like, ‘Ooh, tell me I can't do it. Tell me, please.’ Ooh, I like it when someone tells me I can't do something because then I'm like, ‘Woo, let's go.’” - Kendra Scott “Stay open because we don't know what's going to come next.” - Kendra Scott I think for me, I'm still that dorky girl from Wisconsin. And I think sometimes I hope that the book too just knows that as these things happen, some people, it can affect them. And for me, I'm still me.” - Kendra Scott “Anything is possible. I promise you. I know in some moments it doesn't feel like they are, but if you can get your mind to know that you got this burning amazing light in your story, is what makes you great. So don't be ashamed to share who you really are.” - Kendra Scott Guest’s LinksKendra Scott Website Kendra Scott's Facebook Kendra Scott's business Instagram Kendra Scott’s personal Instagram Resources Mentioned in This Episode Born to Shine: Do Good, Find Your Joy, and Build a Life You Love Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode of the What If Series, we are asking some big questions around using your experience and skills to start something completely new or get imaginative on how you can positively affect your community with what you already have. What do you bring to the table with the whole totality of your experience that could be a force of good for your community or for the people around you? Our guest is leader and teacher Emily Pillton-Lam, an inspiring thinker and author of several books and creator of the nonprofit – Girls Garage. She’s taught thousands of gender expansive youth how to use power tools and to dream of a world built more equitably and sustainably, and she’s dreamt about what it would look like if girls/women were empowered to facilitate the surroundings in our world differently–with an eye toward thinking more communally and factoring in the lived experience of the people around them. In this episode Emily and Jen discuss: The shocking statistics around gender imbalance in Architecture, Engineering and Construction Worlds Why power tools can make you feel superhuman How it takes messy courage to change course and start something new Dreaming of a world built by women Emily gives us insight into the big “what if” question we might all ask ourselves: what if we could affect our world with the skills and experience we have right now? * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes “I think what I discovered through the act of building was both the physical power of it, like I could build something that was tangible and I could point to it and say I built that and we built that as a group of people, working together. Also, this was one of the first times where I looked around and there were other teenagers who were diverse, who were from all over the country, who had all kinds of various family stories, school experiences and yet, we were all on this construction site, building this thing together and it just felt ... like a light went off. This is the thing that makes me feel powerful and purposeful and that I don't have to check who I am at the door, that I could be my full self. So that's the gift that I think construction gave to me at a young age, and it's a gift that I have committed my adult life to paying forward and paying back and giving back to other young people." - Emily Pilloton-Lam “For women, a lot of our lives are influenced by, or sometimes dictated by how we view our bodies in the world.” - Emily Pilloton-Lam “So this is how I think about power tools. Of course, they're fun, they're exciting to learn, but they're like a real metaphor for what women can do and what women can contribute in the world in a physical way.” - Emily Pilloton-Lam “One of the first things that you see when you walk [into Girls Garage], in our reception area, on the left-hand wall, there's a tiled wall, there's all these wood tiles and every tile has the name of a student who's been here and there's like a thousand of them. So you walk in and your name is literally on the wall, alongside hundreds of other girls, so you don't ever have to doubt that you belong here.” - Emily Pilloton-Lam Guest’s Links: Website: https://www.emilypilloton.com/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WeAreGirlsGarage/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/_girlsgarage/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website: http://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram: https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook: https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re knee deep in our What If Series and we’re bringing a twist to the conversation. This powerful interview is a note-taking worthy one; a powerful conversation on one of the most misunderstood emotions we have as humans: regrets. How can we harness our regrets toward forward momentum instead of drowning in them? Our guest is writer and researcher Daniel H. Pink, a fascinating thinker and author of several books–five of them New York Times bestselling works. His latest book is The Power of Regret: How Looking Backward Moves Us Forward. In this episode Daniel and Jen discuss: Basic neurology behind regret How age can affect regret The four main types of regret we all feel How to vaporize the negative effects of regret through practical to dos Daniel teaches us to confront our regrets, listen to our regrets, use them as data, as feedback, and draw lessons from them. He shows us the evidence from social psychology, that if we deal with our regrets properly, we can become better problem solvers, strategists and ultimately find more meaning in life. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes “One can listen to the stories of other people, and if they have a little bit of mileage on them as I do, they can stop and say, "What are the lessons anybody can learn from this?" - Daniel H. Pink “What do you do when nobody's watching? What do you do? Because it's who you are. And it took me a while, Jen. It took me a while to realize like, ‘Hey, wait a second. I think I'm a writer.’” - Daniel H. Pink “Everybody has regrets. So if you feel regret, it doesn't mean that you're flawed. It doesn't mean that you're doing it wrong. It means that you are a human being. In fact, what we know from a whole pile of research here, so there's 50 or 60 years of research in social psychology, in cognitive science, in neuroscience, in developmental psychology, what it tells us is that regret is one of the most common emotions that human beings have. It's arguably the most common negative emotion that human beings have. It is ubiquitous in the human experience. We have piles of evidence showing that regret is omnipresent in our lives. It is everywhere. In fact, it's so prevalent, Jen, that if you lack regrets, that's probably a sign of a problem.” - Daniel H. Pink “Regret is a very complicated, sophisticated kind of emotion. It involves traveling in time in your head, negating things that really happen, coming to the present. It's very difficult.” - Daniel H. Pink “We have a half century of evidence showing that if we process our regrets in a systematic, intelligent way, don't ignore them, don't get wigged out by them, but listen to them, they can make us better.” - Daniel H. Pink “I've made so many decisions in the last week, most of which I don't remember, but there were decisions and indecisions and actions that happened three decades ago that not only I remember, but that bother me. That's a very strong signal.” - Daniel H. Pink “Regret clarifies what I value and instructs me on how to do better.” - Daniel H. Pink “Foundation regrets, if only I'd done the work. Boldness regrets, if only I'd taken the chance. Moral regrets, if only I'd done the right thing. And connection regrets, if only I'd reached out. And around the world, those seem to be the foremost prevalent types of regret.” - Daniel H. Pink “We fear that when we are vulnerable, people will think less of us when in fact they think more of us.” - Daniel H. Pink Guest’s Links https://www.danpink.com/ https://www.facebook.com/danielhpink https://twitter.com/danielpink To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As tons of us in the Jen Hatmaker Book Club can agree, a good book is a bit of a refuge at any time of the year, but especially in the swirl of the holidays. It's just stealing away minutes for our mind to not be thinking about planning and gifting and gatherings and shopping and cooking–not to mention expectations and the pressure to reinvent ourselves in the New Year. But getting to bury our nose in a book or even playing an audiobook has a way of transporting us to a different place entirely and giving us a break. This month we had the wonderful book Hamnet for that fleeting mental retreat we all need around this time of year. We’re getting to talk to Maggie O’Farrell, the amazing author of this atmospheric and emotional book. Maggie is an incredible novelist. She's the winner of the Women's Prize for Fiction in 2020 and her memoir, I Am, I Am which was a New York Times number one bestseller. Not only is she highly awarded with her adult fiction titles, she is also a beloved children's book writer. Even this interview was a bit of transport to another place as Maggie spoke to us in person from Edinburgh in Scotland. She and Jen discuss the book, their shared love of reading, started at an early age, and how amazing it is to find new stories to be told from the classic works of Shakespeare. If you’re not already a member of the book club, there’s so much more to discover in the conversations around amazing books we’re reading together. Jump on over to jenhatmakerbookclub.com after this episode to sign up! * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Use code READ for $5 off your first month at www.jenhatmakerbookclub.com Me Course - New Year | Head to mecourse.org to register and start your new year feeling inspired! Thought-Provoking Quotes “For me the purpose was to put Hamnet center stage and to say to my readers, this boy was important. His life was short, it was hugely significant. And without this child we would not have Hamlet and we probably wouldn't have Twelfth Night.” - Maggie O’ Farrell “The biggest drama of Shakespeare's real life happened off stage, and that's back in Stratford-upon-Avon–the death of his son. So I wanted to focus on that life rather than the one in London that we've seen many times and in many other novels, films and TV series.” - Maggie O’ Farrell “I think we all have our own version of Shakespeare in our heads, don't we? And they're all different, and I think that's fine.I think that's partly why he's of such enduring fascination because he's still open to so many new interpretations.” - Maggie O’ Farrell Guest’s Links Maggie’s Website Maggie’s Facebook Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode Hamnet Book I Am, I Am Book The Boy Who Lost His Spark Children’s Book Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s our first episode of the new year and we’re kicking it off with a brand new series as well. Jen’s always been fascinated by people who take risks, reinvent themselves, or chase a dream that might seem lofty or impossible. What’s the secret sauce to putting our dreams into action, and “what if” we actually get to that thing we always wanted to do in life? To start our series off in a powerful way, we’ve got a guest who has lived out her “what If” moment in the face of fear, trepidation and potentially walking away from a more “sure” thing. Podcast, author, and digital marketer Jenna Kutcher excelled at her first corporate job, where after just a few years, she was looking at a big promotion and more money. Jenna couldn’t shake the feeling that this move for more money and responsibility would be a tough trade off for long hours and time away from the things and people she cared about. Jenna shares the surprising decision she made, what it cost her and how it planned out—while posing questions that maybe we’ve all considered at one time or another: What happens when money doesn’t necessarily bring you the quality of life you’re longing for? What happens when the dreams you have just won’t take a backseat to the practical plan you had for your life? Jen and Jenna give their takes on what it’s like to realize the career or life situation you’ve chosen (or maybe that chose you) isn’t quite the fit you you thought it would be, and they give us permission to chase the thing that brings out the best of who we really are. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Third Love | Visit ThirdLove.com/forthelove and get 20% off your first order Me Course - New Year | Head to mecourse.org to register and start your new year feeling inspired! Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Join the Jen Hatmaker Book Club before January 5th and get a Me Course for free! Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com. Thought-Provoking Quotes “We are so quick to abandon what got us somewhere. Instead, we could leverage that thing to get us to the next place.” - Jenna Kutcher “If you do not have safety and security, creativity is really hard to muster up. Because a lot of people just abandon things and then they're like, "Oh my gosh, I have to take any money that will come in," and they find themselves doing things they don't love.” - Jenna Kutcher “I think that with hustle culture, it's beautiful because, yeah, you got to hustle to get things off the ground, but where is your enough point? Where do you start to say, ‘And now I can rest, or, well done, or now I protect my time?’”- Jenna Kutcher “I realized this trend in my life where when I finally give myself bandwidth and time and space to breathe and think, that is when the best things happen.” - Jenna Kutcher “I think for so many of us, it's like the dial on the stereo is up on the world's noise and your mother-in-law's opinion and your neighbor's car and all these things. It's like we've got to turn our intuition back up and we've got to trust that voice again.” - Jenna Kutcher “Trust the unfolding of your life and trust yourself through the process of the unfolding. Because I think that a lot of times when we're in those seasons, you feel like it's never going to end.” - Jenna Kutcher "Time is our currency. When we treat it that way and when we recognize that this is the one thing we can't go out and earn more of, we can't get back. The way that we spend our days is how we spend our life. Make sure that your day is reflecting where you want your life to go." - Jenna Kutcher Guest’s LinksJenna Kutcher Website Jenna Kutcher Instagram Jenna Kutcher Facebook Jenna Kutcher Twitter Resources Mentioned in This Episode Me Course Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s our anticipated annual solo episode where we get to spend time with Jen reflecting on the year and the changes that have occurred in her life and our collective lives. And whew, have Things™ happened! We are still in the cyclone of massive change that launched out of 2020. Jen recently entered an empty nest phase this year and began a new relationship (an LDR relationship to boot) for the first time in years. She opens up about her relationship with Tyler in a completely new way and offers some hope for those navigating the waters of being single or testing out tough relationships. Whatever comes in the new year, Jen is committed to trying new things and believing that things do get better. It might be messy and wildly nonlinear but there is hope and there is progress and there is a future worth fighting for. I mean, Jen is still shocked she wrote a bestselling cookbook at age 47. If you had asked her in her twenties if that was her future, she would have laughed in your face. Whether you want to overhaul your own life or dip your toe into a new venture, Jen’s with you and cheering you on. We end this episode with Jen sharing what’s on her mind for the new year and what’s to come on the podcast and beyond. We hope you go into your new year feeling like you have a community that gets you, supports you, and that you have permission to try new things. Happy new year, pod community! * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Thought-Provoking Quotes: "That's the nice thing about [starting a relationship] when you're older--you're mature, you've lived a lot of life and you're hopefully more generous, more wise and more grounded." - Jen Hatmaker “I've grown a lot, a lot, a lot through understanding things through Tyler's lens, and staying curious toward him, and fighting all my instincts, which are trauma related, to be scared, and reactive, and triggered.” - Jen Hatmaker “It is 100% okay, more than okay, to choose not to get married or even to partner up. That choice is viable. That is a real choice. It has merit for a trillion reasons.” - Jen Hatmaker “The faith of my childhood did not teach me that God had any interest in our pleasure…in fact the opposite was more true. The harder something was probably the godlier it was. Or the more I denied myself something that felt beautiful or wonderful, that probably meant I was being obedient…God made this world to just be so enjoyed and to heal us and to nurture us. And that feels so crystal clear, true to me now that I'm shocked that it wasn't always.” - Jen Hatmaker “Having a chance to be alone, whether you chose it or didn't, it doesn't matter, is a chance to look really deeply inside. Who am I? What do I want? What makes me happy? What makes me tick? Where are my own personal pain points? Let's not imagine we got this far in our life perfectly and everybody around us was just problematic.” - Jen Hatmaker "If you find yourself solo right now, take this time. Go deeply inside. Know who you are, be your own best friend, emerge as your best self--whether or not that best self ever partners up or marries, it doesn't matter because that's how you want to be in the world.” - Jen Hatmaker "I've been parenting since I was 23. I've done all that heavy lifting and I loved it. I wouldn't change one day of it--but it also feels great to be mostly done. Look at my young adult kids--I think they're fantastic. I'm getting to watch them start to fly." - Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Me Course Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s the benediction episode in our “Ending the Year with a Bang” series and what a well of wisdom we have for you. The Dalia Lama of the Christian faith who resides in and walks the trails of beautiful rural Georgia–a For the Love favorite—Barbara Brown Taylor, shares her priceless insights with us. She and Jen talk blueberry pies, retired racehorses who get a second chance at life in her backyard, and making room for friendships when the world wants us, above all else, to be productive. She shares a “Farewell to 2022” prayer that she composed specifically for this podcast community (which might have elicited a tear or two) and how considering new rhythms in our day to day might bring us new life in 2023. Barbara wants to remind us that God created this world to be enjoyed and to heal and nurture us. As we contemplate how we are looking to live in this coming year, BBT has this to say to us all: “be patient with the changing seasons and not insisting that spring be like fall or that winter be like summer; trust the change in them. There's a rhythm that is settling into a pattern and then there's a point at which the rhythm means breaking the pattern to insert a slower rhythm, a more attentive rhythm. It is a great walk of trust.” * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “It's been an odd liminal transition space between two heavy pandemic years and then seeing what comes next with really no assurance about what comes next. Which I think for people of faith, it is a great walk, a great kind of trust walk. So my 2022 has been a lot about deciding how much normal I want to go back to and what kind of a tempo I want to live because at this point everything's picking up again and I have found myself rushing and busy and distracted and I remember that too well and there are not enough years left to live like that. So 2022 has been for me a hinge year. It's been a year for coming to terms with age, both the fear of what that means and the invitation that it brings perhaps especially for a woman, I'm not sure about that. But the fear is about the stereotypes.” - Barbara Brown Taylor “I prayed much differently in my twenties than I did in my thirties or forties or now. So to be patient with the changing seasons and not insisting that spring be like fall or that winter, be like summer, but to be patient with the rhythms and to trust. To trust the change in them.” - Barbara Brown Taylor “Part of realizing God is with us is giving up illusions. That means that God is very chatty and always available. I mean I'm an introvert so I recognize one when I see one. And sometimes God with us means God's silent and withdrawn and that does not mean God's gone.” - Barbara Brown Taylor “My understanding of my Christian faith is it's the religion of the neighbor and it's the religion whose prime teacher said, "If you've got to choose between your religion and your neighbor, choose your neighbor…Because I never told you to love your religion.” - Barbara Brown Taylor Guest’s Links: Barbara Brown Taylor Website Barbara Brown Taylor Facebook Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Rhythm of Prayer Book Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

***Content Warning: This episode mentions suicide***Description It’s the second episode in our “Ending the Year with a Bang” series and we are leaning in hard as to how to stop spinning out and find a way forward or sideways or any direction really–we just don’t want to be stuck. We are getting into the nooks and crannies of how our brains work and how “micro-yeses” are powerful medicine for our psyches. If you are or ever have been in a place of feeling stuck or maybe even plastered to the floor from feeling overwhelmed, then step right in. Our guest, Britt Frank, is a trauma specialist with her own incredible story of restoration from several addictions and she has fantastic insight for navigating feeling stuck in unhealthy cycles. We can all find hope in the understanding that despite how it might appear sometimes, we are not crazy and our behaviors have reasons that are mapped all over our brains. The good news is we can shift our behaviors in some really simple and attainable ways that Britt shares with us in her no-holds barred style. In the spirit of finishing this year well, let’s all make a pact to stop labeling ourselves as crazy and start believing that our “stuff” makes sense and doesn’t have to hold us hostage. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Storyworth | Head to StoryWorth.Com/forthelove and save $10 on your first purchase BetterHelp | Visit BetterHelp.com/forthelove and get 10% off your first month Jen's Favorite Things Gift Guide | Listen to this special podcast episode for exclusive discounts on gifts that give back this holiday season! Thought-Provoking Quotes “My behaviors weren't good, but there's no such thing as a crazy person. If you look at everyone up close, everything always makes sense in context. Even if you don't know what that means, even if you don't know what that is, and when you stop shaming yourself and you start committing to, hey, I'm not subscribing to my behaviors, I'm not saying these should stay, but I'm not going to shame myself. I'm going to go, wow, this is an interesting adaptation to an injury. And, okay, I'm not crazy. I make sense. My stuff makes sense. My burnout makes sense. My depression makes sense for me. My meth addiction made sense. And what a beautiful message to know that we're not crazy, no one is.” - Britt Frank “If you're still breathing, there's another step to be taken, so take it. I don't know where I'm going, I don't know what I'm doing, just go. Because the second you move in any direction, even if it's the wrong direction, you're no longer inert, you're no longer stuck.” - Britt Frank “I didn't have a pivotal moment. It was a long series of unfortunate events with some moments that kept me inspired to not die. And I kept going.” - Britt Frank “In order to be a happy person, you need to be a whole person. But in order to be whole, we have to deal with the less than shiny things about ourselves.” - Britt Frank “That's a mile 26 problem, trying to love and forgive yourself. But we try to do it at mile one and then go, ‘what's wrong with me that I can't forgive myself?’ That's not the stage of the process we're at. Let's start by getting rid of the lie stories and that'll make it a lot easier to get to self-love and compassion and forgiveness later.” - Britt Frank Guest’s LinksBritt Frank Website Britt Frank Instagram Resources Mentioned in This Episode The Science of Stuck Book Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ask and you shall receive, folks. For years, Jen’s followers have begged for a cookbook and quite literally willed it into existence, and now it’s here in all its glory! For our November book club episode, Jen is joined by OG book club member Denise Gruzensky, who’s been cooking her way through Feed These People and is ready to grill Jen (no pun intended) on her early influences, including; cooking with kids interrupting you every two seconds, what to do when your loved ones can’t eat meat, and how to make your food work for you and your people. Happy Holidays and happy cooking! If you’re not already a member of the book club, there’s so much more to discover in the conversations around amazing books we’re reading together. Head to jenhatmakerbookclub.com after this episode to sign up! * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Jen's Favorite Things Gift Guide | Listen to this special podcast episode for exclusive discounts on gifts that give back this holiday season! Thistle Farms | Use code ForTheLove to save 15% off the entire website excluding sale items Join the Jen Hatmaker Book Club today! jenhatmakerbookclub.com Thought-Provoking Quotes “I knew that I loved making delicious food and creating something great in the kitchen, but I noticed I really liked writing about it and to layer over two things that I loved. Because really I'm a writer first.” - Jen Hatmaker “I used all these years of just writing helter skelter on social media as a template. It isn't one by the way, that is not industry standard. But that's the way that I had figured out food writing, which was just outside of the typical structure.” - Jen Hatmaker “We're all laughing as we're cooking because intermittently there's comedy even in the recipe itself.” - Denise Gruzensky “I think when it comes to cooking, the sum is greater than its parts. Yes, it's just an onion and it's garlic and it's a sub sandwich, but something about it, like the process of it, the possibility of it, the nourishment of it and then the appreciation of it, it's like, Well, maybe I'll learn to paint, maybe I'll write a book. So, I hope that it inspires a little bit of creativity in everybody.” - Jen Hatmaker “I just had so much to learn and I was willing to learn anything and try anything. I feel like the Food Network, I joke about that all the time, that's really where I learned how to cook. I just watched those shows and I watched how they chopped things and I learned technique and I figured out they would teach me about flavors that went together and how to fix something that tasted flat. Just all these things that cooks know, but I did not.” - Jen Hatmaker “I'm on the other side of this just complete seed change in my life. I've learned a lot. I have something new to say. I have something new that I've experienced and learned and I'm not quite ready to write it, but I can see its edges starting to take a little shape.” - Jen Hatmaker Guest’s LinksDenise’s website Denise’s Instagram Denise’s Facebook Denise’s Twitter Books & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeMike Burbiglia Of Mess & Moxie Food Network H-E-B Southern Living Real Simple Food and Wine Magazine Feed These People Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s the first episode in our “Ending the Year with a Bang” series, and we’re bolting headlong into everyone’s favorite topic (especially after week upon week of holiday spending)--finances! Maybe your finances don’t have you ending 2022 with a bang—it has been challenging and hard on the financial front for a lot of us–everything from post pandemic shifts to rising inflation to rising interest rates; things might seem a little gloomy on the financial horizon. But as Jen herself has learned over the last couple of years, you can turn the tide and start calling the shots on your finances, instead of staying in the dark and wondering where you stand. This applies to everyone no matter what money madness plagues you—even if you’re having to start over, or you don’t have much to work with, or you’re wildly uninformed about how to wrangle numbers. Just like a new year, we can all start at the very beginning. This week’s guest brings the realistic–and hopeful—truth about how to turn our finances around, or even just how we can manage things a little differently for maximum benefit. Chelsea Fagan is the co-founder and CEO of The Financial Diet. Having descended into her own financial pit during her first years living in New York, Chelsea decided to make a change and as she began to see some of the simple things she instigated move her toward a healthier financial picture, she wanted to empower others with the reality that basic changes in how we look at money can create great impact toward our financial futures. Chelsea helps people daily with budgeting, credit scores, investing, and does it all with a hopeful outlook that will bring even the least financially minded of us a sigh of relief. Get ready as Chelsea doles out some hard truths, some practical advice and even turns our weekly “what’s saving your life” question back on Jen—this is a conversation that ends up being, well, on the money! * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Thought-Provoking Quotes “Being good with money has basically nothing to do with your income level or your lifestyle. The ethos of being good with money very, very simply boils down to both living with and being content with living under your means, and then framing your financial decision making in terms of your long-term priorities and values as opposed to short-term gratification.” - Chelsea Fagan “I'm thinking about a variety of ways people gather around this time of year, be it actual Christmas or a gift giving moment, family or friends–work even–and those spaces are not paying close attention to making gatherings financially inclusive. If anyone coming to your event feels uncomfortable financially, you have failed as a host.” - Chelsea Fagan “In keeping a positive mindset [with money issues], something my husband says that I really love is, "Worrying is praying for something bad to happen." You either do something about it to be proactive and prevent negative outcomes or increase the chances of positive outcomes. Or, if you've done everything you need to do and it's out of your control now, then focus on other things.” - Chelsea Fagan Guest’s Links The Financial Diet Website The Financial Diet Instagram The Financial Diet Facebook The Financial Diet Twitter Resources Mentioned in This Episode Nerd Wallet Glassdoor Broke Millennial Can’t afford a CPA? See if you qualify for help with your taxes via a free service from United Way Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For the final episode of our Untraditional Traditions series, Jen’s good friend, American Idol alumni Melinda Doolittle, is with us to have an enlightening chat with Jen, which, as Jen readily admits, is 90% not about Christmas at all—and since we’re being untraditional this year, we’re here for it! Jen gets Melinda to spill all the behind the scenes scoop on what it was like to come through the American Idol machine, including how it felt to be the oldest contestant for her season (at the ripe old age of 28, mind you). They also set the record straight about what happened when Melinda “ignored” Tyler Merritt for a year (let’s just say it involved not knowing how social media works). Finally, since it is our holiday series, Melinda tells us about her favorite Christmas ever, which involves her yearly Christmas show in Nashville, TN, and the very special guest that happened to be in the audience that night. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Kiwico | Get your first month FREE on ANY crate line at kiwico.com/forthelove. Jen's Favorite Things Gift Guide | Listen to this special podcast episode for exclusive discounts on gifts that give back this holiday season! Thistle Farms | Use code ForTheLove to save 15% off the entire website excluding sale items Thought-Provoking Quotes “I was on the same season [of American Idol] as Jordan Sparks and she was the youngest in my season, I was the oldest. We were roommates, so we were extremely close. And she knew who she was. She knew what kind of artist she wanted to be. She had auditioned for lots of competitions. She just knew who she was. And I was like, ‘Can you teach me, 16 year old? Because I don't know.’” - Melinda Doolittle “I don't think anyone's prepped to ascend that quickly or to have that level of critique. Literally the whole country was saying what they thought of you.” - Melinda Doolittle on life during American Idol “I truly feel like dreams came true that I didn't actually know I had. I think I hadn't allowed myself to dream about what it would look like for me to be an artist and to step on stages and have my own story to tell.” - Melinda Doolittle “All I wanted out of life was to be the Black Barbara Streisand. I discovered that I could write some songs. I was okay with that, but I wanted to sing those classic songs that made everybody move, made people cry, made people feel something.” - Melinda Doolittle “[At my Christmas show] we do a version of 'All I Want for Christmas,' that is my happiest place. And I swore I would never do that song because that song is the gold standard for me. It is Mariah Carey and I will never be her. So to make that song fit me, but to still be true to it, that was one of the most exciting arrangements I've ever come up with. Ever.” - Melinda Doolittle Guest’s Links Melinda’s website Melinda’s Instagram Melinda’s Facebook Resources Mentioned in This Episode People Loving NashvilleMelinda’s Christmas Show in Franklin, Tennessee Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re back with another installment of our Untraditional Traditions series and continuing to celebrate the best of the season with different perspectives on how to change things up toward augmenting old traditions, creating new ones, or letting go of those that no longer serve us. Perhaps you’re thinking–how do I even begin to shift long held traditions—especially around holiday gatherings? Or maybe you’ve never been the “gather-er,” but you want to step your toe into those waters? We’ve got some fantastic practical guidance based on real life experience from our guest this week, on how we can get more from how we gather, and how to facilitate gatherings that bring life instead of stress. Priya Parker is a facilitator, a strategic advisor, an author and a life-long curious student. Priya believes everyone has the ability to gather well and gives us tangible tools to help us reimagine how we spend our time together and infuse it with creativity and meaning. Her best-selling book The Art of Gathering Well, is such a vital work when it comes to rethinking how we plan all our get togethers. Priya got her start in this field at a really young age as a kid when she straddled the two very different worlds of her parents, where she’d leave her mother and stepfather's Indian, liberal, vegetarian, Buddhist, household and travel to her father and stepmothers’, white American, evangelical Christian, conservative, meat eating household. Priya believes that a gathering starts when you pause first to ask “why do I want to do this, what are the needs and who should be there?” She and Jen talk through some of the possible answers to these questions and how they help us make important shifts in approaching our holiday gatherings. Recognizing that rituals are powerful, they also look at when they are needed–and when they’ve outlived their usefulness or specialness, or even when the observation of them brings sadness or pain. As we all search for belonging and true connection in our holiday gatherings, Priya and Jen walk us through how we can lay the foundation for our own blended and newly-created traditions. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Thought-Provoking Quotes “I think that the cultivation of meaningful dialogue, of meaningful conversation is a cultural practice, and I think that there are elements that help build that muscle, and that there's elements that block the going to that cultural gym.” - Priya Parker “We're doing a lot of missing of each other. We're missing each other spatially because of the pandemic. We're missing each other politically. We're missing each other during racial reckonings. And I think the art and craft of beginning to find each other again is to think about when and how do we actually meet, and how do we set it up in a way that people feel safe enough to engage.” - a letter received from a reader of Priya Parker’s book “The Art of Gathering.” “What is a need in my life, or what is a need in this community that by bringing together a specific group of people we might be able to address?” - Priya Parker “Our rituals are like the observable symbols of our forms, and when the forms are shifting, the rituals also need to shift for them to be relevant and meaningful to the people who choose to be in those systems.” - Priya Parker Guest’s Links Priya’s website Priya’s Instagram Priya’s Facebook Priya’s Twitter Resources Mentioned in This Episode The Art of Gathering - book by Priya Parker The Way We Never Were - book by Stephanie Coontz Americanah - book Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices