For The Love With Jen Hatmaker Podcast

Buckle up, listeners. It was only a matter of time before our paths crossed with Mel Robbins, one of the most respected experts on change and motivation in the zeitgeist, and today is that day. Known for being the host of the #1 ranking education podcast in the world, bringing deeply relatable topics, tactical advice, tools, and compelling conversations to her audiences, Jen and Amy spend today’s hour diving into Mel’s “Let Them” theory, which is taking the world by storm, already delivering instant peace and freedom in the lives and relationships of people putting it into practice. Together, they discuss: The difference between “Let Them” and “Let Me” Learning to release the white-knuckle grip we hold over other people’s behavior (and other things beyond our control) Reframing disappointment to view it as a gift (yes, it’s possible!) Repositioning self-worth inward, rather than leaving it dependent on others' opinions. *** Thought-provoking Quotes: “For a lot of women, we spend so much time upstairs in our heads as people-pleasers and over-analyzers, over-thinking and ruminating, trying to get things perfect. That’s the last place I should be, personally. I need to drop into my body and get out of my head.” – Mel Robbins “People reveal who they are and what they care about through their behavior. Ignore their words. Watch their behavior. Let people be who they are. Let them do what they’re going to do. Focusing on them is not where your power is.” – Mel Robbins “The difference between ‘not my business’ and ‘let them’ is worlds apart. When you say, ‘not my business’, you’re scolding yourself. With, ‘let them’, you’re in the power position because you see what’s happening and are choosing to allow it without allowing it. You’re rising above it.” – Mel Robbins “There’s something about learning that [people] aren’t ever going to change but that doesn’t mean your relationship can’t change for the better. When you let them be who they are, you create space for acceptance, the whole energy shifts.” – Mel Robbins Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Demotivators - https://despair.com/collections/ Effin Birds on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/effinbirds/ Van Morrison - https://www.vanmorrison.com/ No Hard Feelings by the Avett Brothers - https://open.spotify.com/track/0bgQ1hQrpP6ScdBZlDfLE2 Foo Fighters - https://foofighters.com/ DePeche Mode - https://www.depechemode.com/ The Cure - https://www.thecure.com/ Taylor Swift - https://www.taylorswift.com/ The 5 Second Rule: Transform Your Life, Work, and Confidence with Everyday Courage by Mel Robbins - https://amzn.to/427OHwu The Let Them Theory: A Life-Changing Tool That Millions of People Can't Stop Talking About by Mel Robbins - https://amzn.to/4hc53bE The Mel Robbins Podcast - https://www.melrobbins.com/podcast The Four Questions: For Henny Penny and Anybody with Stressful Thoughts by Byron Katie - https://amzn.to/3C7tKXT My Legacy Podcast - https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-my-legacy-podcast-255793246/ Man’s Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl - https://amzn.to/4ajbyaz Dr. Stuart Ablon - https://www.stuartablon.com/ The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck: A Counterintuitive Approach to Living a Good Life by Mark Manson - https://amzn.to/3PCqxmi Guest’s Links: Mel’s website - https://www.melrobbins.com/ Mel’s podcast - https://www.melrobbins.com/podcast Mel’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/melrobbins/ Mel’s Twitter - https://x.com/melrobbins Mel’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/melrobbins Mel’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/melrobbins Mel’s TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@melrobbins Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: In this thought-provoking conversation, Jen and Amy speak with “poet laureate of the ordinary” Kelly Corrrigan about the valuable lessons from life she’s reflecting on in this season: the significance of saying hard things, the power of listening and understanding in relationships, observations from parenting and from a career as a writer, podcaster and storyteller, and the importance of participating in democracy, regardless of who is in power. In this episode, which was recorded on Election Day 2024 (prior to knowing the outcome) Kelly uses her trademark wit and steadfast wisdom to offer listeners evergreen words of encouragement for our political landscape and for our lives in whole. Segments: Bless & Release: Lies we tell ourselves GenXcellence: MTV music videos *** Thought-provoking Quotes: “We have created this way of interpreting someone changing their mind as a flip-flopper and we have left no room for someone to grow.” – Kelly Corrigan “Making is good for individual well-being. Having an inventor’s or innovator’s mindset is just good for society.” – Kelly Corrigan “Once you say something out loud, it just gets smaller. It packs less of a punch. It’s the stuff that we’re holding and never saying to anyone that’s going to be the death of us.” – Kelly Corrigan Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Strumbellas - https://thestrumbellas.ca/ Arcade Fire - https://www.arcadefire.com/ Mt. Joy - https://www.mtjoyband.com/ Bless and Release sweatshirt - https://shop.jenhatmaker.com/collections/apparel-accessories/products/bless-release-sweatshirt Jamie Wright - https://www.instagram.com/jamietheveryworst/ MTV - https://www.mtv.com/ American Bandstand TV show (1952-1989) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0049993/ Madonna - Like a Virgin - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s__rX_WL100 American Top 40 with Casey Kasem (1970-1988) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Top_40 The Middle Place by Kelly Corrigan - https://amzn.to/3AgM14g Tell Me More: Stories About the 12 Hardest Things I'm Learning to Say by Kelly Corrigan - https://amzn.to/3UGcjUf Kelly’s IG post about the NYC Marathon - https://www.instagram.com/p/DB7IZumy6aR/ National Lampoon’s Animal House film (1978) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0077975/ Nantucket Project - https://nantucketproject.com/ Nantucket Project 2024 - Kelly Corrigan’s Annual Wrap-Up - https://nantucketproject.com/2-2024-gathering/ Aspen Ideas Festival - https://www.aspenideas.org/ TED - https://www.ted.com/ Marianne the Maker by Kelly Corrigan and Claire Corrigan Lichty - https://amzn.to/4hBUY92 George Sweetland (illustrator) - https://www.georgesweetland.org/ Bryan Stevenson on Kelly Corrigan Wonders - https://www.kellycorrigan.com/podcast/category/Bryan+Stevenson Jennifer Garner and Christy Turlington Burns on Kelly Corrigan Wonders - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/jennifer-garner-and-christy-turlington-burns-talking-moms/id1532951390?i=1000654904522 Steve Kerr on Kelly Corrigan Wonders - https://www.kellycorrigan.com/podcast/kerrkamau Guest’s Links: Kelly Corrigan Website - https://www.kellycorrigan.com/ Kelly Corrigan Wonders Podcast - https://www.kellycorrigan.com/podcast Kelly Corrigan Books - https://www.kellycorrigan.com/books Kelly’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/kellycorrigan/ Kelly’s Facebook -https://www.facebook.com/kellycorriganauthor Kelly’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@kellycorriganvideo Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: Life throws some challenging stuff at us. Sometimes we rely on traditional therapies and resources trusted in Western medicine to help us through. And sometimes, we need to look to alternative and newly emerging tools to experience the relief or breakthrough that we need. In today’s conversation, Mimi Bouchard, founder of the Activations app (formerly known as Superuman) shares her transformative journey from a troubled adolescence marked by substance abuse and self-doubt to becoming a successful entrepreneur and advocate for personal development. She discusses how her unique approach to 'activations' has helped her and so many others achieve emotional and mental wellbeing by utilizing unique audios that are a mix between a motivational podcast, cinematic music and guided visualization. From guided visualization practices and breathwork to grounding, reiki, and other body work Jen and Amy also talk about other “woo-woo” wellness approaches that have been useful for them in their healing needs. For The Love listeners have an opportunity to try Activations at a steep discount on a yearly subscription by visiting activations.com/jen. *** Thought-provoking Quotes: It was the beginning of a completely new life for me. I’m not going to say that I woke up the next day and I was perfect and completely transformed. It’s obviously a mega-journey and it’s not linear and growth is so messy. – Mimi Bouchard I had to believe in myself. The only thing that got me there was just this core deep belief in myself that I had to develop. I didn’t have that in my younger years. Doing this work of personal development was the only thing that mattered when everyone else doubted me. It drove me. At the end of the day, it’s a very lonely journey at the beginning. I had to be alone a lot. I had to be the only one who deeply believed in myself. – Mimi Bouchard When you’re feeling alive, it slows down time. What a blessing to be able to slow down time – life goes by so quickly. The more things we can do to slow down time, the better our lives will be, and more clear. You have to unnumb yourself. When you numb yourself so much, it’s very hard to get clear or get unstuck. It’s very easy to stay in your old ways and just numb, numb, numb until you just feel nothing anymore. – Mimi Bouchard I think so much of it is the intention with which you do things. If you are open-hearted and seeking, a lot of tools can benefit you. – Amy Hardin Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Success Principles: How to Get from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be by Jack Canfield - https://amzn.to/3CYaVq7 Activations App - https://www.superhuman.app/home Activate Your Future Self: The Secret to Effortlessly Becoming the Happiest, Healthiest and Wealthiest You by Mimi Bouchard - https://amzn.to/4gck8t6 Guest’s Links: Mimi’s website - https://www.mimibouchard.com/about Mimi’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/mimibouchard Mimi’s Twitter - https://x.com/mimibouchard Mimi’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/officialmimibouchard Activations App - https://www.superhuman.app/home Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: In part two of this epic conversation, we continue our journey around the globe with Sydney Hatmaker to hear about some of the amazing adventures and experiences had during her six months travelling across Europe and Asia on a tiny budget. In this episode: ● We hear how staying connected while travelling can have some serious pros and cons ● Sydney tells us about the 200 hours of intense yoga training she underwent in the magical landscape of the Indian Himalayan Mountains ● She tells us about her heart-pounding experience climbing a (LITERAL) active volcano, Mount Rinjani in Indonesia, and how it was the hardest thing she has ever done ● And Sydney tells us how she ultimately decided that it was time to hang up the backpack and come back home. As you dream and make plans for 2025, we hope this episode inspires you to broaden your horizons, to take chances, and to say yes to new things. One thing we are sure of is that this once-in-a-lifetime adventure is sure to be repeated. The only question is where will we go? *** Thought-provoking Quotes: I get why people climb mountains. It’s so empowering. You push up hard against the growing edge of your own limits. I didn’t even know that I was capable of pushing myself that hard. You just take that feeling and it's contagious, it spreads to other parts of your life. – Sydney Hatmaker I met this amazing 70 year old woman in one of my hosels in Turkey who started backpacking when she retired. She had been all throughout the entirety of the Middle East. She was so incredible. We all gathered around her. She had the most incredible stories. – Sydney Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The 9 Enneagram Types Descriptions - https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/type-descriptions/ Skyscanner - https://www.skyscanner.com/ Rick Steves Travel Guides - https://amzn.to/41mKeFX Berghain Techno Club in Berlin - https://bit.ly/4gfaMNq Sagrada Familia - https://sagradafamilia.org/en/ Jen’s MeCamp - https://bit.ly/3D1qX2I The Banana Pancake Trail - https://trail.bananabackpacks.com/banana-pancake-trail/ Hostel World - https://www.hostelworld.com/ Pyramid Yogshala Yoga School - https://pyramidyogshala.com/ Guest’s Links: Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: At 24 years old, Jennifer Hatmaker was parenting her first diaper baby on no sleep as a stay-at-home mom and pastor’s wife. By contrast, Jen’s second-born, Sydney Hatmaker, spent half of her 24th year on a gap year travelling the world and banking a lifetime of memories. In this special two-part conversation, Sydney walks us through some of the best moments and lessons learned from her life-changing adventure, beginning in May in Berlin and ending in October in Vietnam. With stops along the way in Sicily, Turkey, Portugal, Spain, Malaysia, Indonesia, India, and Thailand, Sydney gives us some of her best tips for travelling solo on a shoestring budget. It might entail a 40-hour journey taking a car to a bus to a ferry to a bus, to another ferry, to a train, to a taxi, to a scooter, to a hostel, all to save $60, but the point is it can be done and she’s here to inspire us all with tales from her adventure. Highlights from this conversation include: In our GenXcellence Travel-Edition, we reflect on what travel was like for us in the 80s-90s, before satellites and cell phones and Expedia (Sydney has never heard of Traveller’s Cheques) Sydney gives us her best tips for getting into one of the world’s most popular techno clubs in Berlin (shh! It’s very hush-hush!) We learn about surfing camp on the coastline of the Portuguese Riviera Why you need to budget more for European travel than Asian travel and how you can eat in Asia on $4 a day Sydney talks about learning to be comfortable travelling on her own and being in her own company – something she thought she was already good at but was pushed to new limits And a lot more….. Be sure to tune in for part two of our conversation next week to hear how the story ends. *** Thought-provoking Quotes: I didn’t have a phone for the last two months of my trip. I still had a laptop so when I was at the hostel on wifi, I could do research and book things but it was a different kind of travel. I made the most of it and it ended up being a bit of an adventure.I obviously had an initial reaction of panic (not having a phone) but then I felt this complete freedom. – Sydney Hatmaker I did have some big ideas that I would get something out of my system on this trip, that I would come home and settle down, get a real job, root down in one place but halfway through my trip I realized there is so much more (in the world) that I want to see. There’s so much to do, so much to see and explore and so many ways to make it happen. – Sydney Hatmaker Travelling feels different and way more real when you’re by yourself. I love my own company and my company is better than some random person that I’m not really connecting with. And realizing that, makes it really easy to connect with more people. – Sydney Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The 9 Enneagram Types Descriptions - https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/type-descriptions/ Skyscanner - https://www.skyscanner.com/ Rick Steves Travel Guides - https://amzn.to/41mKeFX Berghain Techno Club in Berlin - https://bit.ly/4gfaMNq Sagrada Familia - https://sagradafamilia.org/en/ Jen’s MeCamp - https://bit.ly/3D1qX2I The Banana Pancake Trail - https://trail.bananabackpacks.com/banana-pancake-trail/ Hostel World - https://www.hostelworld.com/ Pyramid Yogshala Yoga School - https://pyramidyogshala.com/ Guest’s Links: Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week Jen and Amy sit down with actress, musician, and author Bethany Joy Lenz to discuss her deeply personal memoir, Dinner for Vampires: Life on a Cult TV Show (While also in an Actual Cult!). Bethany opens up about her experience in a high-control group, known as “The Big House Family” religious cult, the complexities of spiritual abuse, and how she found her way back to faith and autonomy with the help of a One Tree Hill fan. They explore themes of manipulation, resilience, and the power of telling your story. This raw and inspiring conversation offers hope, clarity, and empowerment for anyone navigating their own path to freedom. Jen and Amy “Rant or Rave” about New Year’s resolutions and Amy teaches us some creative perspectives to take to feel more successful in this space. And we reminisce about our favorite shows from the early 2000s. West Wing… the best! Criminal Minds, 24, Gray’s Anatomy, all bingeable. Gilmore Girls, c’mon. And what about One Tree Hill? *** Thought-provoking Quotes: It doesn’t feel like a courageous act. It’s survival. Courage is when you are fully aware of the dangers that lie ahead – like a fireman, willing to run into a burning building to grab a baby – that’s courage because you know what’s at stake. When you are already in the burning building trying to find your way out, it doesn’t take courage, it’s survival – “find me the exit, how do I get out?” – Bethany Joy Lenz My faith has evolved into something that is much more connected to my gut which feels much more authentic. I feel a lot more comfortable asking questions and I really value doubt. The truth rises to the top. I think God is capable of communicating with all of us when it’s the right time in the right way. If the gospel shows us anything, it's that God meets us where we are. – Bethany Joy Lenz I think a lot of Christians live in a space where we think it's very noble to not question God, like we think he’ll love us more, appreciate us more, we’ll be better disciples or believers. But he gave us the brains that we have for a reason. Is he capable of satisfying our intellect or not? So, push the button as hard and as far down as you can. It’ll hold. – Bethany Joy Lenz God is big enough to hold all of you. There’s nothing that you can present to God that is going to scare him off. He can handle the worst version of you, the angry version of you, the confused version of you. You don’t need other people to hold you. The Bible is full of stories of God one-on-one with someone (Job, Moses, Jesus) so you don’t need to be afraid of being alone with the Lord. – Bethany Joy Lenz Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Paul Teal - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm3806295/ Joy’s tribute to Paul Teal - https://www.instagram.com/reel/DCf3CtopQt1/ Dinner for Vampires: Life on a Cult TV Show (While also in an Actual Cult!) - https://www.amazon.com/Dinner-Vampires-Life-While-Actual/dp/1668067307 Drama Queens Podcast - https://open.spotify.com/show/344eFGlcjmdAUqvWzPJzBk Tim Keller sermon on Doubt - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/praying-our-doubts/id352660924?i=1000678149013 Modern Vintage News - https://www.modernvintagenews.com/ Guest’s Links: Joy’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/msbethanyjoylenz/ Joy’s Twitter - https://x.com/itsjoylenz Joy’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/BethanyJoyLenz/ Joy’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@msbethanyjoylenz Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: In this delightful episode, Jen Hatmaker sits down with bestselling author Josie Silver, the brilliant mind behind One Day in December. Josie shares her journey from writing ten novels to achieving massive success with this enchanting Christmas love story. Together, Jen and Josie discuss the creative process, the inspiration behind her characters, and the challenges of crafting a love story that spans a decade. Josie opens up about the unexpected ways her personal life influences her writing, how she brings authenticity to her characters, and what it feels like to finally hit her stride after years of writing. Whether you're a die-hard romance fan or simply looking for your next great read, this cozy conversation will inspire and entertain. Thought-provoking Quotes: You write the men you want them to be, not necessarily the men they are. That’s part of the magic of romance writing.” – Josie Silver “I think a lot of the little, quiet moments in life—the shorthand between people who truly know each other—are what make stories feel real.” – Josie Silver “Do you want help, or do you want a hug?” – Jen Hatmaker, reflecting on parenting young adults. It was a joy to write this book. Some books come out more easily than others and, this one, I wrote in six weeks. Some books have taken six months, some have taken far longer; whereas this one, every time I sat down, everything just seemed to work. – Josie Silver Resources Mentioned in This Episode: One Day in December: A Novel by Josie Silver - https://amzn.to/3OD2D9A Guest’s Links: Josie’s books - https://amzn.to/3VlTFl3 Josie’s website - https://josiesilver.com/ Josie’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/josiesilverauthor Josie’s Twitter - https://x.com/josiesilver Josie’s BlueSky - https://bsky.app/profile/josiesilver.bsky.social Josie’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/JosieSilverAuthor Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Settle in, listeners. Jen and Amy have invited Greek and New Testament professor and scholar, Reverend Dr. Angela N. Parker to the show to reflect on the Advent season with some words of hope and liberation. She took our butts to seminary, opening our eyes to what it looks like when you examine the scripture through the lens of womanist theology and the experiences of Black women. But as Dr. Parker tells us, “I’ve lived long enough to know that God will bring me through but sometimes it’s hard and sometimes it hurts. But even after the hurt, the tender spots get more resilient.” There’s so much to unpack in this one. Jen and Amy discuss their favorite Christmas movies and debate whether classics like Gremlins and Die Hard fit the genre Dr. Parker explains how liberation is a collective journey, not an individual one – and how everyone, including white men, can need it. We learn how understanding the historical context of scripture is vital for its interpretation. And we also talk about some of the holiday hullabaloo we’re ready to Bless and Release this season. *** Thought-provoking Quotes: “If I’m liberated, I don’t want to be liberated alone.” – Dr. Angela N. Parker “We don’t want to think about the early church being enslavers.” – Dr. Angela N. Parker “If our biblical text is wrestling with the idea of empire from Genesis to Revelation, we are wrestling with empire as well.” –– Dr. Angela N. Parker “When we work as a collective, we actually do better to transform society.” – Dr. Angela N. Parker “The tree at the end of Revelation 21 has the leaves for the healing of all the “Ethnae”, for all the ethnicities, for all the nations. That’s what John the Revelator sees in his final vision.” – Dr. Angela N. Parker “In my own work, I talk about how I try to even get whiteness out of me. Even as an African American woman born and raised in these United States, there are elements of whiteness that are in me, on me and a part of me. That’s just what we swim in.” – Dr. Angela N. Parker “Hope breaks forth in the midst of terror, fear, and overwhelm. It’s normal to have [those feelings]. Don’t trick yourself into ignoring them. It’s best for us to acknowledge what is going on around us but to remember that hope breaks through.” – Dr. Angela N. Parker “I’ve lived long enough to know that God will bring me through but sometimes it’s still hard and sometimes it still hurts. But even after the hurt, the tender spots get more resilient.” – Dr. Angela N. Parker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Orange Theory - https://www.orangetheory.com/en-us James Hal Cone - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_H._Cone Jacquelyn Grant - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacquelyn_Grant Delores Williams - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delores_S._Williams Katie Cannon - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katie_Cannon Alice Walker - https://alicewalkersgarden.com/ Rev. Dr. Margaret Aymer - https://www.austinseminary.edu/cf_directory/dirprofile.cfm?p=2576&id=4459 Sisters in the Wilderness: The Challenge of Womanist God by Delores Williams - https://amzn.to/4eV3Nce If God Still Breathes, Why Can't I?: Black Lives Matter and Biblical Authority by Rev. Dr. Angela N. Parker - https://amzn.to/3YkO9Qo Guest’s Links: Angela’s website - https://theology.mercer.edu/faculty-and-staff/parker/ Angela’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/boozybiblescholar/ Angela’s Twitter - https://x.com/BzyBibleScholar Angela’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/WomanistNTScholar/ Angela’s TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@boozybiblescholar Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week Jen introduces Amy and the For the Love audience to her long-time friend, comedian Heather Land, who gained fame as a social media sensation through her viral I Ain’t Doin’ It videos. They discuss Heather’s journey from an early career in ministry to one in comedy, and now to her newest passion project, life coaching. Heather talks to Jen and Amy about the impact of burnout and the challenges of reinventing oneself, especially at different life stages and finding joy in her new creative project, the Dear Heathers podcast (that she co-hosts with best-friend Heather Lenard) encouraging other women to embrace their journeys and feel empowered. In this episode: Jen and Amy share their mixed feelings on receiving unsolicited advice. Inspired by the Dear Heathers podcast, Amy and Jen reminisce about what it was like using landline phones when they were teens. Shocker: Jen even remembers her old phone number! The group talks about the importance of recognizing signs of burnout and how reinventing oneself is a vital part of personal growth Heather shares how support from friends can play a crucial role in our journey, like when her friend advised her to ‘do it [comedy] afraid’. Jen, Amy, and Heather talk about women looking to others with relatable stories when they go through difficult experiences and how community can be our greatest lifeline. *** Thought-provoking Quotes: “What do I have to lose except my dignity?” – Heather Land “Standup is maybe the hardest form of comedy. It’s not scripted. You don’t have directors and writers. It is a hot seat and it’s live. It’s sink or swim. You picked the hardest way to be funny.” – Jen Hatmaker “You are in full integrity when you make a change when something is still working. That is a move that is in full alignment which is something to be proud of.” – Jen Hatmaker “We ask kids ‘what do you want to be when you grow up?” and I don’t think we leave a lot of room for ‘What do I want to be next?’ or ‘what do I want to be when I’m 40, or 50, or 60?’.” – Heather Land “I’m sorry, I have not hired you as my life coach.” – Amy Hardin Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Heather’s I Ain’t Doin’ It Playlist - https://youtu.be/slcwYADYwRc?si=Oe-m-0jf3-wDdVmH Dear Heathers Podcast - https://www.heatherlandofficial.com/podcast Heather Lenard - https://www.heatherlenard.com/ Life Coaching with Heather Land - https://www.heatherlandofficial.com/life-coach#book-an-appointment Nichole Nordeman - https://www.instagram.com/nicholenordeman/ Susannah Lewis (Whoa Susannah) - https://whoasusannah.com/ Jen Hatmaker Book Club Cruise January 30-February 3, 2025 - https://shop.jenhatmaker.com/pages/cruise Only Murders in the Building - https://www.hulu.com/series/only-murders-in-the-building Should men take baths? - Dear Heathers: Ep. 3 Bath Time with the Swon Brothers - https://apple.co/4eI6s9b Guest’s Links: Heathers’s website - https://www.heatherlandofficial.com/ Heather’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/heatherland_iaintdoinit Heather’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/iaintdoinit/ Heather’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCs4omp2klYLTOqqY56j-8Ag Dear Heathers Podcast - https://www.heatherlandofficial.com/podcast Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The SupportBeltTM is designed and validated for Ford and Lincoln vehicle specifications and is intended only for use in those vehicles; Ford is making the design available via license for other automakers to manufacture and test in their vehicles. For shoulder belt use only. Do not use on lap portion of belt. Not for use by children or with child seats or booster seats. For use by mastectomy patients. The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Krista Tippett's work in the realm of spirituality and human experience is unparalleled. She just has a divine gift for distilling complex topics into clear, palatable information that we can sit with, dissect, and examine. She uses her OnBeing podcast as a place to conduct honest conversations with theologians and thought leaders about what it means to be human, what it means to be alive. Curiosity is welcome in her space. She brings a sense of calm to everything around her. So during the frenzy of the holidays, which can be both joyful and stressful, we wanted to circle back to this centering conversation with Krista to decompress and be at peace with the world. This conversation feels like an oasis in what is always a chaotic month so it’s our gift to bring it back for you this week. Segments: Bless and Release: Rules for holiday decorating and making the holidays magical GenXcellence: Essentials for outfitting a GenX space *** Thought-provoking Quotes: If a thing is feeling stressful and not joyful, it needs to be re-evaluated. – Jen Hatmaker I actually found in the Bible, reading it for myself directly, that it completely honored the questions, and it honored the anguish, and it was full of things that didn’t make sense or were contradictory. And for me that was an opening to not feel that faith had to be in opposition to what didn’t make sense or was contradictory. – Krista Tippett There has to be a way to represent the complexity of this, and also the centrality of it, the fact that it’s more about questions than it is about answers, and the array of how we walk around with this, and what it means in our lives, and the ways we practice, and the vocabulary we have, and the different ways we pray. I wanted to show that you could talk about this and we could speak about the part of ourselves that we mean when we use language of religious or spiritual. – Krista Tippett The sensibility, the intentionality with which something is offered, shapes the reaction that comes at it. – Krista Tippett I do have a spiritual homeland and I do have a spiritual mother tongue. That matters. – Krista Tippett Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Walter Brueggeman – https://www.walterbrueggemann.com/ The Prophetic Imagination – https://onbeing.org/programs/walter-brueggemann-the-prophetic-imagination-dec2018/ Thích Nhât Hanh – https://plumvillage.org/ Desmond Tutu – https://www.tutu.org.za/ Mary Oliver – https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poets/mary-oliver I Got Saved By the Beauty of the World – https://onbeing.org/programs/mary-oliver-i-got-saved-by-the-beauty-of-the-world/ Guest’s Links: OnBeing Podcast - https://onbeing.org/series/podcast/ Krista’s website - https://onbeing.org/our-story/krista-tippett/ Krista’s Twitter - https://x.com/kristatippett Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As we journey into this Advent season, Scott Erickson, better known to most by his moniker in the internet and art world as Scott the Painter, discusses his journey of faith and the creation of his 'Honest Advent,' project aimed at reinterpreting traditional Christmas narratives through a lens of vulnerability and authenticity. He reflects on the paradoxes of belief, the importance of community, and the need for honest conversations about faith and the human experience, particularly during the Advent season. With a great deal of compassion and humor, Scott shares insights into his creative process, the significance of connection in his work (which has resonated so deeply with his community that many have it tattooed on their bodies), and the need for honest spiritual experiences in today's world. His work is not just visually beautiful. It’s also meaningful, bringing a beautiful new approach to an old and familiar story. Thought-provoking Quotes: “As an artist, I love the brand of Christmas – red and green, complimentary colors. I love the music – the soundtrack, I love all of it. But I thought, is this a distraction from life or is this a hopeful message for the reality of it?” – Scott Erickson “I want to know if I should just give up on my beliefs. If God’s not in the world and this isn’t a story that’s happening, then I just want to move on. But, if we are celebrating this thing and if it is happening, then that’s what my invitation is. By going through those things, and thinking through, and praying through, and then creating out of it, the fact that it then becomes a path for others to walk, that’s the greatest gift in making art.” – Scott Erickson “It’s amazing, the alchemy of what happens when you hand the work over and then it becomes something new in the hands of your audience and the people that are experiencing it and they bring a story to it that you couldn’t even fathom. You’ve done your part, you did the creation part, stewarding your gift, putting it out there to the best of your ability and then they take it and it becomes something more. I’ll never get over that exchange.” – Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: FitBit - https://store.google.com/category/trackers Scott’s Tattoo FAQ - https://www.scottericksonart.com/tattoo-faq Say Yes: Discover the Surprising Life beyond the Death of a Dream by Scott Erickson - https://amzn.to/3AEVfao Scott Erickson’s Shows - https://www.scottericksonart.com/shows The Enneagram Institute Personality Types - https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/type-descriptions/ Honest Advent: Awakening to the Wonder of God-with-Us Then, Here, and Now by Scott Erickson - https://amzn.to/4fgK6fc Guest’s Links: Scott’s website - https://www.scottericksonart.com/ Scott’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/scottthepainter Scott’s Twitter - https://x.com/scottthepainter Scott’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/scottthepainter Scott’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@scottericksonart Scott’s Pinterest - https://www.pinterest.com/scottthepainter/_created/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, Jen gets to fulfill a dream of interviewing one of her favorite influences and mentors in the food world. The iconic six-time James Beard award-winning Ruth Reichl sits down with Jen to discuss her extensive impact on food culture spanning the last several decades. They hit on everything from the alarming state of the modern food industrial complex, how we source our food and the impacts it poses to our health (as well as the hope they see for our future), to what it has been like to document the evolution of food across the changing media landscape of print media and the internet. Ruth reflects on highlights from her career as a chef, food critic, editor, tv personality, author, novelist and documentarian and discusses the challenges and joys of her various roles in the culinary world, including the emotional toll of her work which has garnered both admiration and criticism. *** Thought-provoking Quotes: The way that we eat, the way we have handed over our health, our environment, our communities to the idea of industrialized food is truly terrifying. – Ruth Reichl The more you say no, the more people want you. – Ruth Reichl Almost no one likes what is written about them. No matter how flattering a portrait may be, people don’t like it. So when it’s really not flattering, people don’t like it. – Ruth Reichl Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Food and Country Film - https://www.foodandcountryfilm.com/ Michael Pollan - https://amzn.to/4g1bkGV Barbara Kingsolver - https://amzn.to/3D0fv7f White Oak Pastures - https://whiteoakpastures.com/ Gourmet Magazine - https://bit.ly/3D2LN1B Tender at the Bone: Growing Up at the Table by Ruth Reichl - https://amzn.to/3OEwjmS Condé Nast - https://www.cntraveler.com/contributor/ruth-reichl New York Times - https://www.nytimes.com/by/ruth-reichl Garlic and Sapphires: The Secret Life of a Critic in Disguise by Ruth Reichl - https://amzn.to/4ifrUo9 The Paris Novel by Ruth Reichl - https://amzn.to/3BfyUk4 Save Me the Plums: My Gourmet Memoir by Ruth Reichl - https://amzn.to/49vwfiX Guest’s Links: Ruth’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/ruth.reichl/ Ruth’s Twitter - https://x.com/ruthreichl Ruth’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/@ruthreichlbooks Ruth’s Substack - https://ruthreichl.substack.com/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this conversation, recorded the morning after the presidential election, comedy phenom Tig Notaro joins Jen and Amy (donned head to toe in black in mourning) to unpack the events of the day and to help them find their happy place in the world again, which she accomplishes with tactical success. By the end of the show, they’ve laughed so hard, they’ve forgotten most of their cares. In this episode, Tig regales us with her journey as an Emmy and Grammy-nominated comedian, the influence of her free-spirited mother, and how her family dynamics (and a few hilarious stories from her boys) have shaped her comedy. She also reflects on her journey of authenticity, what it means to be an icon in the LGBTQ+ community, and the significance of being true to oneself. In Rant or Rave, Jen and Amy muse about whether or not they have the chops to make it in stand-up, and we learn that Amy definitely has a deep well of material at her disposal. Speaking of which, be sure to listen for Tig’s story about the weirdest gig she’s ever performed! *** Thought-provoking Quotes: One of the things my mother told me growing up was to tell everyone to go to hell if they had a problem with me. And I certainly do not walk around telling everyone to go to hell but I think there’s this thing in me, whether you know I was told that or not, I think people can tell that I don’t have a desperation and I’m not going to do backflips for anybody. – Tig Notaro I didn’t bust out of the closet. I went through my own process of figuring things out. I wasn’t born knowing I was gay. When I did come out, it was just an authentic feeling and decision of, this is who I am. – Tig Notaro Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Annette Benning - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000906/ John Travolta - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000237 Cher - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000333 Olivia Coleman - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1469236/ Broadchurch - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2249364/ Wicked Little Letters - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt20234774/ Taika Waititi - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0169806/ Ryan Reynolds - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005351 Denzel Washington - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000243 Julia Roberts - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000210 Notting Hill - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0125439 Jason Bateman - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000867 Smartless Docuseries - https://play.max.com/show/f8c800e3-7639-4883-a0f1-8eb5adbb5ced I’m Just a Person by Tig Notaro - https://amzn.to/3ZjlfQY Tig: A Netflix Documentary - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3986532/ One Mississippi TV series - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4947608/ Under a Rock with Tig Notaro - https://www.amazon.com/Under-Rock-Tig-Notaro/dp/B07SJZ4TKM Kevin Nealon - https://www.instagram.com/kevinnealon/ This American Life with Ira Glass - https://www.thisamericanlife.org/ Star Trek: Discovery - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5171438/ Hello Again - https://www.amazon.com/Tig-Notaro-Hello-Again/dp/B0CV4FNJ27 Guest’s Links: Tig’s website - https://tignation.com/ Tig’s Twitter - https://x.com/tignotaro Tig’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/tignotarocomedy/ Tig’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=tig+notaro Handsome Podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/handsome/id1702258458 Don’t Ask Tig Podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/dont-ask-tig/id1523507379 Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker Jen’s Holiday Gift Guide - https://shop.jenhatmaker.com/pages/gift-guide The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Office co-stars and best friends, Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey, are doing the ultimate Office-lovers podcast for you. Each week Jenna and Angela will dive deeper into The Office giving you access to even more behind the scene details, interviews and lots of stories that only two best friends who were there, can tell you. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week we welcome back a treasured friend of this show, renowned design guru and the heartbeat of the Fab Five, Bobby Berk! It’s been four years since we last talked to Bobby so we have a lot of ground to cover in this episode. Bobby tells us about the designers like Michael Graves and Isaac Mizrahi who he drew inspiration from early in his career. He tells stories about his humble beginnings with retail gigs at stores like Bed Bath & Beyond and Restoration Hardware – maybe part of what makes him so relatable? – and how his career as a designer blossomed from there. And with the holidays upon us, we also take the opportunity to ask Bobby about how he celebrates (or survives) the holidays. He offers some great insights on instituting some personal boundaries to maintain sanity that are not too late to put into rotation this year. *** Thought-provoking Quotes: “At my grandparents' A-frame cabin in Colorado, every square inch was red, and I mean R-E-D shag carpet and it looked like a whole gaggle of muppets laying on the ground….and I think I liked it. I remember laying on the ground threading my fingers through the carpet.” – Jen Hatmaker “I loved going to my friends houses where it was just cool and calm and nothing to look at. But honestly that’s not what I’m drawn to anyway. My house looks like a rainbow exploded. I have a kelly green velvet couch, a gallery wall that has every single color. I’ve got some bat shit wallpaper going on. I’ve decorated it like I’ve never seen the color gray.” – Amy Hardin “I’m drawn to spaces that have life in them, I like color – I like it when a room is even outrageous. Whether or not I would exactly do that thing, I think, ‘I like where your head is at’”. – Jen Hatmaker “You’re the CEO of your own instincts and design and if you love it, it’s going to work.” – Bobby Berk Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Queer Eye for the Straight Guy - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queer_Eye_(2003_TV_series) Queer Eye - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queer_Eye_(2018_TV_series) Queer Eye on Netflix - https://www.netflix.com/title/80160037 Series 26: Episode 02: Queer Eye’s Bobby Berk on the Fire Inside Us All - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-26/queer-eyes-bobby-berk-and-the-fire-inside-us-all/ BobbyBerk.com - https://bobbyberk.com/ Right at Home: How Good Design Is Good for the Mind: An Interior Design Book by Bobby Berk - https://amzn.to/3A7TjXT When Jen met Bobby in Mexico - https://www.instagram.com/p/B5HMYkUASvc/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== Tripointe Homes Style Finder Quiz - https://bobby-berk.tripointehomes.com/style-finder/ Michael Graves - https://michaelgraves.com/ Michael Graves Target Collaboration - https://michaelgraves.com/product/target-products/ Isaac Mizrahi Target Collaboration - https://www.target.com/b/isaac-mizrahi/-/N-s73qo Jen’s master bathroom remodel - https://www.instagram.com/p/DB38zmHOrYU/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== Bobby at the 76th Emmy’s - https://www.instagram.com/p/C__NYm2yz8G/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== RuPaul’s Drag Race - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1353056/ Celebrity Holiday Homes on HGTV - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1519269/ Guest’s Links: Bobby’s website - https://bobbyberk.com/ Bobby’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/bobby/ Bobby’s Twitter - https://x.com/bobbyberk Bobby’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/BobbyBerkOfficial Bobby’s TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@bobby Bobby’s Pinterest - https://www.pinterest.com/bobbyberk/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re going deep into the archives to pull out a special conversation for this week’s bonus episode with our most beloved friend, Grammy Award-winning singer/songwriter, Amy Grant. The last time Jen and Amy sat down together, it was on the heels of an exhausting,arduous time in our county. Back then, Amy delivered some profound words of wisdom in the peaceful, soothing way that only she can. And we felt her words would be a welcome balm to soothe our weary souls today so we’ve brought it back for you to enjoy as a bonus episode! In addition to some very timely words of wisdom from Amy, this episode covers: Navigating life's difficulties while maintaining a positive outlook — Amy shares a touching story about the final lesson she’s learned from her parents Amy discusses her journey of healing from unexpected open heart surgery and she and Jen talk about learning to respect their bodies and live more in balance The importance of community and support systems, especially when enduring hard circumstances The complexities of cancel culture which has come for Amy on more than one occasion in her career and personal life The evolution of Contemporary Christian Music (CCM) and the “The Queen of Christian Pop’s” impact on music that transcends genres and generations *** Thought-provoking Quotes: “Everybody brings different things to the table. Rapid-fire conversation or investigative or deep conversations might not be their comfort zone but there are other things that are. – Amy Grant “I have my hands on my own wheel. I can’t steer anybody else’s opinions. I can’t steer anybody else’s choices. But I’ve got to own mine.” – Amy Grant “When I was younger, I thought if I don’t say yes to everything, it’ll all stop. It’ll all dry up. It won’t keep coming. It’s my yeses that keep the energy moving forward. But I found out that’s not true at all. That was a fake story. It was just the scarcity mindset.” – Jen Hatmaker “Ask different questions. The next step, the next opportunity, the next enlightenment, the next everything for all of us is within reach. It always has been.” – Amy Grant Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Jen at the Amy Grant concert in Austin 2023 - https://www.instagram.com/p/CxvoBcbujuB/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this special episode, Jen and Amy get a visit from a Hollywood darling we’ve loved in countless films and shows like The Descendants, Archer, 27 Dresses, Arrested Development and 13 Going on 30 to talk about her newest project based on the beloved children’s book, The Best Christmas Pageant Ever! Actress Judy Greer talks about what it’s like to collaborate on such a treasured holiday story that she somehow missed out on as a kid but was lucky enough to discover when she was cast for the role. She sets the scene for what it was like to film the movie last fall in wintry Winnipeg with a cast full of kids on set and also takes a moment to share some highlights from earlier in her career. Also in this episode: Amy and Jen talk about their mixed feelings toward pageants and public performances. As you might guess, one of them loves them, one hates them. In our GenXcellence segment, Jen and Amy recount their first movie-without-parents experiences. And we Rant or Rave about decorating the house at Christmastime. *** Thought-provoking Quotes: “I directed so many programs with my sisters and my girl cousins, and my parents were very, very mediocre audience members. If you’re going to have four kids, guess what you get to do? You’re going to sit on the brown corduroy couch and watch our shitty programs. That’s part of the deal. We practiced for six hours. I had choreography. At one point, I gave Lindsay an umbrella that she had to open at just the right lyric in the song and the bitch could not do it and it was so upsetting.” – Jen Hatmaker “I think what’s so beautiful about this story is that it’s about unity, and compassion, and empathy. And it’s about being welcoming.” – Judy Greer Resources Mentioned in This Episode: 48 Hours movie (1982) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083511/ Film Rating Guide - https://www.motionpictures.org/film-ratings/ Top Gun movie (1986) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0092099/ The Shining movie (1980) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0081505/ Alamo Drafthouse Cinema - https://drafthouse.com/austin 37th Street Austin Light Display - https://www.instagram.com/37thstreetlights/ Arrested Development - https://www.netflix.com/title/70140358 13 Going on 30 movie (2004) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0337563/ The Descendants movie (2011) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1033575/ I Don’t Know What You Know Me From: Confessions of a Co-Star by Judy Greer - https://amzn.to/4hiDC0y The Best Christmas Pageant Ever: A Christmas Holiday Book for Kids by Barbara Robinson - https://amzn.to/3YzrNfh The Best Christmas Pageant Ever movie (2024) - https://bestchristmaspageantever.movie/ Archer - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1486217/ Citizen Ruth movie (1996) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0115906/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1 Dallas Jenkins - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0420817/?ref_=tt_ov_dr_1 Pete Holmes - https://peteholmes.com/ Guest’s Links: Judy’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/missjudygreer Judy’s Twitter - https://x.com/missjudygreer Judy’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/OfficialJudyGreer/ Movie Links: The Best Christmas Pageant Ever’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/bestchristmaspageantevermovie/ The Best Christmas Pageant Ever’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/BestChristmasPageantEverMovie The Best Christmas Pageant Ever’s Twitter - https://x.com/BCPEMovie Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Let’s be honest: there are seasons in life when things feel heavy and hard and the thought of breaking through the noise and negativity seems impossible. But with a little retooling of perspective, you can shift the conversation to one that is more productive and more hope-filled. In this episode, Timothy Shriver discusses his lifelong commitment to promoting dignity and unity through his work with the Special Olympics and the Dignity Index. He shares practical steps (and real-life examples gleaned from guests of his brand new Need A Lift? podcast) to demonstrate how you can turn a difficult conversation into an opportunity to form a connection. And if that’s not enough, Jen and Amy dig into some of their biggest fears – the ones they want to Bless and Release. *** Thought-provoking Quotes: “I was being invited into a world in which the pursuit of making the world better, more just, more hopeful was a joyful pursuit. It wasn’t a burden. It wasn’t a responsibility of commitment you had to keep.” – Tim Shriver "We need people willing to take a chance – on each other, on trying again, on their communities." – Tim Shriver “Without losing my passion, without losing my commitment to the issues, I can still treat people with dignity.” – Tim Shriver "Contempt for each other is the problem and treating each other with dignity is the solution." – Tim Shriver “We can’t get legislation in most states or at the Federal level that embodies either of those majority opinions [border security and gun control] because the contempt on the extremes is so dominating the conversation that our political leaders find it in their best interest not to solve the problem or too scary to try.” – Tim Shriver Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Special Olympics - https://www.specialolympics.org/ Fully Alive: Discovering What Matters Most by Tim Shriver - https://amzn.to/3NXAie9 The Dignity Index - https://www.dignity.us/ Tim’s Need A Lift Podcast - https://www.timothyshriver.com/projects/need-a-lift How Michael and Nicole Phelps Unlearned the Fear of Losing - https://apple.co/3NGKiYI A Special Olympics Gold Medalist on Authenticity and Play: Loretta Claiborne - https://apple.co/4hhBbLF Simon Sinek Believes that Idealism Belongs In the Workplace - https://apple.co/4dXmjj0 Taking Off Our Masks through Confession with Fr. Mike Schmitz - https://apple.co/48gAlLl Guest’s Links: Tim’s website - https://www.timothyshriver.com/ Tim’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/timothyshriver Tim’s Twitter - https://x.com/TimShriver Tim’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/timshriver/ Tim’s Need A Lift Podcast - https://www.timothyshriver.com/projects/need-a-lift Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jen and Amy are beyond thrilled to welcome none other than late-night legend Stephen Colbert and his amazing wife, Evie McGee Colbert, to the show! They’re dishing about their brand-new cookbook, Does This Taste Funny?—a project born right in the middle of pandemic life at home. Stephen and Evie share the hilarious backstory of how this all came together, dive into their kitchen quirks (spoiler: they don’t always see eye-to-eye in the kitchen), and their mutual love for Gullah cuisine from the heart of South Carolina’s Lowcountry. From the joy of cooking together to a classic metal spoon disaster, it’s the perfect blend of laughter, food, and a little bit of chaos. On today’s show: Jen and Amy discuss their mixed feelings about high school reunions Jen offers some sage guidance to young girls about how not to accessorize in their senior photos Amy shows off in front of the Colberts with her plate of (gluten-free) Patti McGee’s Cheese Biscuits from their cookbook The group tries to unpack what made our children’s generation so sensitive about food expiration dates Stephen shares the story about how he got radicalized by fancy butter *** Thought-provoking Quotes: “Anytime somebody brings me my own cookbook – which is only a few years old at this point – and it’s dirty, filthy, greasy, I am thrilled. It’s the best compliment.” – Jen Hatmaker “My mom grew up in the heyday of processed foods. She didn’t have a lot of recipes that didn’t come from the back of a bottle of chili sauce or a packet of dried soup mix. So that’s where I started my culinary journey.” – Stephen Colbert “Those people who have cooking shows are amazing. Shout out to anyone who has to cook and talk in front of a camera.” – Evie Colbert Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Flavors: The Junior League of San Antonio (1978) - https://www.abebooks.com/9780961041601/Flavors-Junior-League-San-Antonio-0961041609/plp The Pioneer Woman Cooks: Recipes from an Accidental Country Girl by Ree Drummond (2009) - https://amzn.to/3Ue0eWd The Colbert Report - https://tv.apple.com/us/show/the-colbert-report/umc.cmc.3k1kkmfgd34hfnk8mc6p1uj01 "I Hope This Grief Stays With Me" - Andrew Garfield Fights Back Tears And Celebrates His Mom - YouTube - https://youtu.be/_u_TswLQ4ws?si=Ah2cbnW3-5AiyAlF The Daily Show - https://www.cc.com/fan-hub/the-daily-show The Late Show with Stephen Colbert - https://www.cbs.com/shows/the-late-show-with-stephen-colbert/ After Midnight - https://www.cbs.com/shows/after-midnight/ Montclair Film - https://montclairfilm.org/ Does This Taste Funny?: Recipes Our Family Loves - https://amzn.to/3YoJeix Feed These People: Slam-Dunk Recipes for Your Crew by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/3BNozvM Candied Hot Peppers from Tiny Pizza Kitchen in Brooklyn - https://www.tinypizzakitchen.com/buy-chilies Guest’s Links: Stephen’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/stephenathome/ Stephen’s Twitter - https://x.com/StephenAtHome The Late Show with Stephen Colbert Website - https://www.cbs.com/shows/the-late-show-with-stephen-colbert/ The Late Show with Stephen Colbert Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/colbertlateshow/ The Late Show with Stephen Colbert Twitter - https://x.com/ColbertLateShow The Late Show with Stephen Colbert Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/colbertlateshow/ The Late Show with Stephen Colbert YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/ColbertLateShow Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Friends, today’s episode is a powerhouse! We’ve got Sharon McMahon, aka “America’s Government Teacher,” bringing some serious wisdom from her new book, "The Small and the Mighty." Even the drafters of the Constitution worried about chaos, but they hoped for better things—and Sharon’s here to show us how twelve lesser-known heroes in American history made a huge impact on democracy. She’s drawing parallels to how we can still shape our future today, no matter how small we feel. Get ready to be inspired, y’all! Let’s dive in! In this hope-filled chat: Jen and Amy muse around which historical figures they would most like to meet and we get a glimpse of their preferred election night routines Sharon highlights the arc of her career from an award-winning yarn influencer known as the Yarnista, to a photographer, to “America’s Government Teacher” We discuss the need for reliable sources of factual information in a world filled to the brim with fake news and disinformation Sharon explains why we shouldn’t sit out during state and local elections We talk about a variety of ways to engage in democracy beyond just voting And Sharon fields questions from members of our audience. *** Thought-provoking Quotes: “We’re all tired, we’re exhausted from the endless partisanship and the fake news and the disinformation and vitriol.” – Jen Hatmaker “I started noticing that there were a lot of people that were just really confidently wrong on the internet, saying things like ‘the electoral college is a university you can graduate from’.”– Sharon McMahon “There’s a big list of people, especially women, who never, ever get the credit when it comes to the civil rights movement – it’s the attorneys, it's the Thurgood Marshalls, it’s the Freddie Grays, it’s the Martin Luther Kings.,and, of course, what they did is incredibly important but… there are a lot of women with whom this hot air balloon does not get off the ground. There is no leaving the ground without the significant contributions of women.” – Sharon McMahon “We have to stop viewing this as a zero sum game in which our enemies must be defeated or destroyed. That’s an onramp to dictatorship.” – Sharon McMahon “There are many ways to be involved in democracy. It’s not just voting and running for office. There’s not one prescription for how to be involved. Do things you are good at and contribute in your own way. We can’t all be parade goers.” – Sharon McMahon “We tend to put all of our eggs in this basket of who will win the presidential election but who gets elected in your state matters so much. The things that really affect your daily life are defined at the state and local level.” – Sharon McMahon Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Henry Fite House of Baltimore - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Fite_House The Angry Trout Cafe, Grand Mariais, MN - https://www.angrytroutcafe.com/ The Small and the Mighty: Twelve Unsung Americans Who Changed the Course of History, from the Founding to the Civil Rights Movement by Sharon McMahon - https://amzn.to/3NsoqjI Guest’s Links: Sharon’s website - https://sharonmcmahon.com/ Sharon’s Newsletter, The Preamble - https://thepreamble.com/ Sharon’s Governerds Book Club - https://sharonmcmahon.com/products/governerds-insider Sharon’s Here’s Where It Gets Interesting Podcast - https://sharonmcmahon.com/podcast Sharon’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/sharonsaysso Sharon’s Twitter - https://x.com/sharon_says_so Sharon’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/sharonsaysso/ Sharon’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@sharonsaysso Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this engaging conversation, actress, activist, and all-around beautiful human, Yvette Nicole Brown, gives us a lesson on the fundamental importance of joy, the blessings of caregiving, and the significance of community support. Through an exploration of Yvettes’ career, first in the music business, and now in the entertainment industry, she and Jen and Amy discuss the many challenges that face black women today while also talking about one of black women’s greatest superpowers – the sisterhood that exists among them. They lean into how white women can learn to harness that power in their relationships, too, and the things that can be done to support their sisters of color right now. Yvette also reflects on her personal life as a devoted caregiver, and dishes for a moment about the beauty of finding love in your late 50s. *** Thought-provoking Quotes: “I don’t know as a kid that I ever thought that I would be a star. I always felt that I would be impactful in people's lives in some way because of the way that I love people.” – Yvette Nicole Brown “I am still pinching myself. I’m Forrest Gump in the flesh – in real life – because I just say yes to things that feel right and God just takes me to the next opportunity to do the same.” – Yvette Nicole Brown “That’s why black women are always so close with each other because whenever you see a ‘sista’, you know her story, without knowing her story. That’s why we call each other ‘sista’, because we know what she’s been through. Same thing with black men. ‘Brotha’. ‘Sista’. We know what the other person has been through and we stand with each other and support each other. But here’s the thing, we stand with and support everybody else too. And that’s why we say ‘vote like black women, think like black women’. That’s not hubris. That’s not arrogance. That’s heart. That’s soul.” – Yvette Nicole Brown “When it comes to anything that comes up in the news, culture, current events, whatever’s going on, if I feel even a modicum of uncertainty about how to feel about it, I just look to the black women. It’s the correct reading of the room. The response is always for the greater good. It’s what’s good for culture, for people, our neighbors, progress, equality.” – Jen Hatmaker “Instead of me showing you my pain, I’m going to use my joy as my strength and I’m going to dance and laugh through this thing.” – Yvette Nicole Brown Resources Mentioned in This Episode: I Take My Coffee Black: Reflections on Tupac, Musical Theater, Faith, and Being Black in America by Tyler Merritt - https://amzn.to/3U6nMfN Yvette’s acting and producing credits - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1304328/ Kamala Harris for President - https://kamalaharris.com/ How Black Women Organizers Broke Zoom to Raise $1.5 Million - Fortune.com K-Pops by Anderson .Paak at Toronto International Film Festival - https://tiff.net/events/k-pops Frasier - https://www.paramountplus.com/shows/frasier-2023/ Among Us - https://www.innersloth.com/voice-cast-for-the-among-us-animated-series-round-1/ Donors Choose - https://www.donorschoose.org/ The Creative Coalition Commission on Caregiving - https://thecreativecoalition.org/caregiving/ Emily’s List Guest’s Links: Yvette’s website - http://www.actressyvettenicolebrown.com/ Yvette’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/yvettenicolebrown Yvette’s Twitter - https://x.com/ynb Yvette’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/YvetteNBrown/ Yvette’s Squeezed Docupodcast - https://lemonadamedia.com/show/squeezed/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week Jen and Amy sit down with the charismatic and engaging Stanley Tucci, to discuss his new book, 'What I Ate in One Year', that explores the deep connections we can find amongst the food we eat, the memories we make, and the emotions we feel and how our cultural practices around food can provide fuel for us, not just in times of celebration, but can also provide us comfort in times of grief. Stanley reflects on how food plays a role in both joyous and difficult moments, emphasizing the importance of sharing meals with loved ones, hoping that readers will find comfort and connection through his work, especially in a time when we are all experiencing more loneliness and disconnection. *** Thought-provoking Quotes: "You're such a Renaissance man." – Jen Hatmaker "I like it so much more when we all eat together." – Stanley Tucci "Food is just a part of life, which means it's a part of death too." – Stanley Tucci “When somebody brings me bread, that’s my person. Let’s get married.” – Jen Hatmaker “Even if you’re in a really shitty place, even if the food is terrible, but you’re eating with people that you love, it’ll be a memorable meal.” – Stanley Tucci “I don’t want to eat a well done burger. I’d rather eat an extra side of fries.” – Jen Hatmaker “Eating outdoors makes things taste better. Why is that? I don’t know but the place is crucial…in a weird way. It can change the taste of things.” – Stanley Tucci “We think that in the moment we’re going to remember something forever but we don't. It just slips away. Even just writing your story down for you has meaning.” – Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Stanley Tucci’s new book 'What I Ate in One Year' - https://amzn.to/484rxb2 Big Night (1996) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0115678/ CNN Show: Searching for Italy - https://www.cnn.com/shows/stanley-tucci-searching-for-italy Stanley Tucci makes a Negroni for his wife, Felicity - https://bit.ly/4h2L9QW The Devil Wears Prada (2006) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0458352/ Stanley Tucci’s film bio - https://imdb.to/3YgfeW2 Stanley Tucci’s theater bio - https://playbill.com/person/stanley-tucci-vault-0000019856 Taste: My Life Through Food by Stanley Tucci - https://amzn.to/4f08P6Y Guest’s Links: Stanley’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/StanleyTucci Stanley’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/stanleytucci/ Stanley’s TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@stanley.tucci Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Named a best podcast of 2023 by Vulture, Time, The Economist, & Vogue. No question too big, no question too small. On Search Engine, host PJ Vogt answers the kinds of questions you might ask the internet when you can't sleep. If you find the world bewildering, but also sometimes enjoy being bewildered by it, we're here for you. Edited by Sruthi Pinnamaneni. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this month’s Jen Hatmaker Book Club episode, we speak with the author of A Woman of Intelligence, Karin Tanabe. In this fascinating interview, we learn that Karin originally set out to write a book about WWII women code breakers, but ended up turning it into an ode to the struggles of women finding themselves during early motherhood and the imminent right they have to a future chosen for themselves. The story follows a woman in the 50’s who sets out on a spy adventure, departing wildly from her mundane life, and making difficult choices that come with choosing yourself over society’s whims. Jen and Karin personally and candidly reflect on the pressures of motherhood, the erasure of self that can come with parenting full time, and the history that brought us to where we are today. Some topic points include: The fascinating pivot from Tanabe's original book pitch to the creation of "A Woman of Intelligence" Discussion of rarely-taught aspects of U.S. history, including government-funded childcare during WWII Tanabe’s approach to crafting complex characters, including the memorable mother-in-law The careful construction of the novel's open-ended finale Join Jen and Karin for an engaging conversation that will leave you eager to dive into "A Woman of Intelligence" and reflect on how far we've come – and how far we still have to go. * * * Resources & Books Mentioned in This Episode: A Woman of Intelligence by Karin Tanabe - https://bit.ly/47GdbxI The Sunset Crowd by Karin Tanabe - https://www.karintanabe.com/copy-of-the-list A Hundred Suns - https://www.karintanabe.com/a-hundred-suns Karin’s Booklist - https://www.karintanabe.com/books-w3tou Elizabeth Bentley - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Bentley The Lanham Act of 1940 (Government-Subsidized Health Care) - https://bit.ly/3XS2Uen The Red Scare - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Scare The Cliffs by J. Courtney Sullivan - https://bit.ly/4evbYLG Private Equity: A Memoir by Carrie Sun - https://bit.ly/3Bbgy3w Eyeliner by Zahra Hankir - https://bit.ly/4gDgdqC Guest’s Links: Karin’s Website: https://www.karintanabe.com/ Karin’s Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/karintanabe Karin’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/karintanabe Karin’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/authorkarintanabe Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week Jen and Amy dive deep into the mind of bestselling author and one of the most influential thinkers of the 2000’s, Malcolm Gladwell. Exploring the intriguing concepts behind his latest book, The Revenge of the Tipping Point, the conversation ebbs and flows through Malcolm's ability to turn dense data into compelling narratives, weaving stories that captivate readers in unexpected ways. Jen and Amy key into Malcolm's knack for viewing problems from unique angles, a skill that sets him apart in academic and popular discourse. Throughout the chat, Malcolm reveals how his perspectives have evolved over the last 25 years and how the nuances of today's world demand a fresh interpretation of the ideas that he first introduced. Their discussion underscores the blend of rigorous analysis and storytelling magic that defines Malcolm's work and leaves a lasting impact on listeners eager to engage with the pressing questions of our time. Malcolm gives us insight into all manner of cultural phenomena, including: A definition of “overstories” and how they can refine and deepen our understanding of the spread of customs, mores, and practices The advent of “superspreaders:” those very few people who have a large amount of influence, a situation which has shifted with the onset of social media Snippets of fascinating social observations, illustrated in stories from his book including a look at the opioid epidemic, the growing mental health issues of students, and the power of television shows like “Will & Grace,” toward creating massive cultural shifts * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “The overstory that is over our heads right now that we're not thinking about is one that says the most important way to understand ourselves and our differences from others is to look through the lens of politics. I think political ideology has somehow kind of become central in a way that it wasn't 25 years ago. That's a kind of weird thing going on right now that we're sort of not paying attention to. I'm hopeful that will shift. I would much rather people find themselves using other categories. Because there are other categories that are far more meaningful.” - Malcolm Gladwell "If you look at platforms like Twitter or TikTok, you'll see that a very small number of people have a massive amount of reach. As we examine how we're influenced, it's clear that the sources and individuals projecting influence in the world are getting smaller and smaller — which is weird, because we initially thought the opposite was happening." - Malcolm Gladwell Resources Mentioned in This Episode: What’s Going On by Marvin Gaye - https://bit.ly/3TLRne5 Sunday Bloody Sunday by U2 - https://bit.ly/4gQTdEC Losing My Religion by R.E.M - https://open.spotify.com/track/31AOj9sFz2gM0O3hMARRBx Malcolm’s Book List - https://www.gladwellbooks.com/landing-page/malcolm-gladwell-books/ Revenge of the Tipping Point by Malcolm Gladwell - https://bit.ly/3XYc7BN Anna Muller - https://umdearborn.edu/people-um-dearborn/anna-muller Seth Robertson - https://philosophy.fas.harvard.edu/people/seth-robertson Will and Grace - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_%26_Grace Guest’s Links: Malcolm’s Website - https://www.gladwellbooks.com/ Malcolm’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/gladwell Malcolm’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/malcolmgladwellbooks/ Malcolm’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/malcolmgladwell/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week, step into the studio (and kitchen!) with Jen and Amy as they have an intimate and insightful conversation with the iconic Ina Garten, a true pioneer in the culinary world who has shaped the way we cook at home. As they delve into Ina's groundbreaking career, from the beloved Barefoot Contessa specialty food shop to the 28 seasons of her cherished TV show, you'll discover the heart and humor behind Ina's success. Amidst laughter and heartwarming tales, the conversation takes a deeper turn as Ina opens up about her new memoir, “Be Ready When the Luck Happens,” providing candid insights into her life, including her early days with husband Jeffrey and the triumphs and challenges that have defined her journey. Topics include: Being open to unexpected opportunities can lead to fulfilling paths. The importance of maintaining a sense of humor and lightheartedness on the journey to success and connection. Behind the scenes of Ina’s relationship with her husband of 56 years, Jeffrey, where she underscores the value of strong support systems and partnerships in achieving balance and joy. Whether you're a longtime fan or new to Ina's world, this episode offers a personal glimpse into the life of a culinary legend who continues to inspire us all. PLUS don’t miss Jen and Amy’s discussion about foods they ate as kids that they wouldn’t dare touch now, and the cooking shows that first caught their attention as young wives and moms. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I think that we all need one person and we don't need a lot of people, just need one person who really believes in us. And fortunately for me, it was Jeffrey…He always made me feel like I was smart and I could accomplish anything I wanted to do with no reservations, no judgment. And it doesn't have to be a spouse. It can be a sister. It can be a teacher. It can be a parent. We all need to find that one person who really believes in us. At least that's my experience.” - Ina Garten “I think one of the things that we're always taught when we're young is; what are you going to be when you grow up? And you're not going to be one thing anymore. You're going to do something and it's going to lead to something else, and then it's going to lead to something else. If you decide when you're young what you're going to be and that's it, you're never going to learn anything. I think it's the twists and turns that are really interesting.” - Ina Garten Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Feed These People by Jen Hatmaker - https://shop.jenhatmaker.com/products/ftp-book Be My Guest with Ina Garten - https://bit.ly/3TvsfIx Be Ready When Luck Happens: A Memoir by Ina Garten - https://bit.ly/3ZndFqh Strapless: John Singer Sargent and the Fall of Madame X by Deborah Davis - https://bit.ly/3XPOo76 Party of the Century: The Fabulous Story of Truman Capote and His Black and White Ball by Deborah Davis - https://bit.ly/4gvQ6l6 The Oprah Winfrey Show: Reflections on an American Legacy - https://bit.ly/47r1QS1 Tina Turner: My Love Story - https://bit.ly/3Xu76j1 Ina Garten on 60 Minutes - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REyYFeqEKZg An Unmarried Woman - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Unmarried_Woman Ina’s Interview with John Grisham - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQ9jYxkbm6s Guest’s Links: Barefoot Contessa (Ina’s Website) - https://barefootcontessa.com/ Ina’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/InaGarten Ina’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOlnd-2UlwJuWcnfEKt28yg Ina’s Pinterest - https://br.pinterest.com/inaofficial/ Ina’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/inagarten/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Leanne Morgan was going to quit her career as a stand up comic and start a hardware store (with a cheese wheel, no less!) before she had her major break in comedy. Making the decision to invest in herself one last time opened the doors to an incredible season and newfound success in the comedy world. Jen, Amy, and Leanne get candid when talking about what it means to be the best version of themselves in their second act of life, and when success comes later, why it can be better than having all your dreams come true at once. Topics discussed include: Behind the scenes of Leanne’s viral success at 51 Why being yourself is always the best answer to any problem How handling criticism at their ages is so much easier to deal with The cornbread drama — do you add sugar or not? Also; don’t miss Jen and Amy’s discussions before the interview on Taylor Swift drama and FOMO! * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: "Use humor to get through hard times. I think it's the best thing that can ever happen to anybody is to be able to laugh through the bad times and to forgive themselves." - Leanne Morgan "I want [women] to know it is never too late...you're the best you've ever been. You're the smartest you've ever been. It is the best time in your life. It is the best time to start a business. It is the best time to go back to school. I just want women to know that." - Leanne Morgan Resources Mentioned in This Episode: What in the World? by Leanne Morgan - https://www.leannemorgan.com/book Quiet by Susan Cain - https://susancain.net/book/quiet/ For the Love Podcast Episode ft. Jim Gaffigan - https://bit.ly/3Ximuij Leanne’s Interview with Hallerin Hilton Hill - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14xdJyhnLuc You’re Cordially Invited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14xdJyhnLuc Leanne Morgan at the Grand Ole Opry - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFYMFOok5s4 Guest’s Links: Leanne’s Website - https://www.leannemorgan.com/ Leanne’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/leannecomedy Leanne’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/leannemorgancomedy Leanne’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/leannemorgancomedy Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

At the height of her worldly and academic success garnering three Harvard degrees, Martha Beck received life altering news, and discovered that maybe she didn’t know everything. This set off a lifetime of pursuing ways to soothe her nervous system from anxiety and find freedom in a new purpose. In a world where anxiety seems to be spiraling out of control, Martha offers a revolutionary approach to understanding and befriending anxiety. Drawing from cutting-edge neuroscience and her years of experience coaching people through what she calls the “Change Cycle,” Martha shares: The four phases of the “Change Cycle” Why anxiety is on the rise and how it's affecting us all The unexpected connection between anxiety and creativity How to access your own creative genius You’re also not going to want to miss Jen and Amy’s discussions before the interview on embracing the mantra “it’s never too late” and Jen’s incurable attachment to an ancient email address. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: "Hold it [stability] very lightly. Let it go. Because everything is always moving and changing." - Dr. Martha Beck "If you try to speed yourself through the process of letting go, of grieving your losses, of at least giving a really deep, profound, heartfelt farewell to the life you used to have — if you don't go through that process, nothing good is going to come of it. You're going to end up in lifelong therapy." Dr. Martha Beck “There is a sensation deeper than the mind, more profound than anything we could think, and in some ways, far more powerful than emotion. It is a kind of stillness, a connection. I believe that this is what consciousness is. It behaves this way when it is neither us nor a substance. It is a vibrantly alive stillness that pervades the universe, however many there are. And we are part of it; we are indistinguishable from it.” - Dr. Martha Beck "The first step to getting out of anxiety is to recognize that an anxious brain is not a broken machine--it's a frightened animal." - Dr. Martha Beck “The moment you move into a place of compassion, you use your brain very differently than when you’re in an anxiety spiral. This shift frees you to pull your attention away from the anxiety and begin being loving with yourself.” - Dr. Martha Beck "You were born a creative genius. Your mind is so capable of solving the problems that make you anxious, but only if you free that genius. And anxiety keeps it caged." - Dr. Martha Beck Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Dr. Becks Monthly O Magazine Column - https://www.oprah.com/spirit/martha-beck/all Bewildered Podcast with Dr. Martha Beck & Rowan Mangan - https://bit.ly/3zkyic2 The Gathering Room Podcast with Dr. Martha Beck - https://bit.ly/3XquFsV The Way of Integrity Finding the Path to Your True Self - https://bit.ly/3ziwm3F Nisargadatta Maharaj - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nisargadatta_Maharaj NASA’s Creative Genius Study - https://bit.ly/4dSoFAl Wildr App - https://apps.apple.com/my/app/wildr/id1604130204 Guest’s Links: Dr. Beck's Website: https://marthabeck.com Dr. Beck's Wayfinder Life Coach Training: https://marthabeck.com/life-coach-training/ Dr. Beck's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/themarthabeck/ Dr. Beck's upcoming book: https://marthabeck.com/beyond-anxiety/ Courses & Retreats with Dr. Beck: https://marthabeck.com/courses-training/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jen and New York Times best-selling author, Phaedra Patrick, discuss “The Little Italian Hotel” and how finding a way through heartache can look wildly different from one person to the next. Phaedra was a self-taught writer who almost gave up on her dream before she had a breakthrough with her runaway hit, “The Curious Charms of Arthur Pepper.” In her darkest moments she always reminds herself, “When I don’t feel confident, I just tell myself that I can always feel determined instead.” With that boldness in mind, she writes novels to make people feel good about themselves and want to connect with others. Particularly compelling moments between Jen and Phaedra include: Phaedra’s incredible story of teaching herself to write and dealing with rejection in the beginning of her career The author's insights on the challenges women face on putting themselves first Phaedra’s reasoning on the open ending of the book Why connecting with others in warm and gentle spaces can lead to healing * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “When I don't feel confident, I just tell myself that I can always feel determined instead.” - Phaedra Patrick Resources and Books Mentioned in This Episode: The Little Italian Hotel by Phaedra Patrick - https://bit.ly/4fJ92fJ The Year of What If by Phaedra Patrick - https://bit.ly/4drmseX Rise and Shine, Benedict Stone by Phaedra Patrick - https://bit.ly/3X3ugOr The Curious Charms Of Arthur Pepper by Phaedra Patrick - https://bit.ly/3WIQWSw Garden Spells by Sarah Addison Allen - https://bit.ly/3YKUsyA The Authenticity Project by Clare Pooley - https://bit.ly/4fC6XT7 The Love of My After Life by Kirsty Greenwood - https://bit.ly/46SffSQ Phaedra’s Writing Tips - https://www.phaedra-patrick.com/writing-tips Guest’s Links: Phaedra’s Website - https://www.phaedra-patrick.com/ Phaedra’s Instagram - http://instagram.com/phaedrapatrick Phaedra’s Twitter - http://twitter.com/phaedrapatrick Phaedra’s Facebook - http://facebook.com/phaedrapatrick Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Have you ever met someone who’s excited about menopause? It might seem like a rare breed, but isn’t it time we reconsider our relationship with aging? While society often tells us that 50 should look like 30, the reality is that growing older is a badge of honor—even if it comes with its own set of quirks. Menopause, instead of being a dreaded foe, is more like an old friend that invites us to a new chapter filled with wisdom, laughter, and some hilariously unpredictable moments. Rather than shying away from this natural transition, Cheryl Bridges Johns encourages us to lean into it, celebrating the changes and uncovering the vibrant selves we’ve always been. Through her insightful book, “Seven Transforming Gifts of Menopause,” she illuminates the idea that this phase is an opportunity for rediscovery—like uncovering a hidden treasure chest on a stormy day. As we navigate these waters together, it's easier to see that aging is not the end; it’s merely the beginning of a bravely authentic and empowered life. PLUS an all new episode intro from Amy and Jen who get into a Rant & Rave segment about the joys of permimenopause and menopause that you won’t want to miss. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Women are allowed to age but we are not allowed to mature.” - Cheryl Bridges Johns “We're the daughters of the Silent Generation but our daughters don't have to be.” - Cheryl Bridges Johns “Menopause is a gift to revisit. What did you let go, what did you repress? The uncovering of menopause is like a storm that comes in and you realize there’s a ship where you couldn’t see it before. It was hidden and the storm became a clearing, an uncovering.” - Cheryl Bridges Johns Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Silent Passage - Gail Sheehy - https://bit.ly/4dTE1Ve How to Survive a Shipwreck: Help Is on the Way and Love is Already Here - Jonathan Martin - https://bit.ly/4gaB5oL The Wisdom of Menopause: Creating Physical and Emotional Health During Change - Christiane Northrup - https://bit.ly/3TifroB Jen’s Blog - What’s Saving My Life Right Now: Perimenopause Edition - https://shop.jenhatmaker.com/pages/perimenopause-survival-guide Guest’s Links: Cheryl's Website - https://cherylbjohns.com Cheryl's Twitter - https://twitter.com/cb_johns Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s election season, and it’s been an interesting ride to this cycle’s moment of truth! Jen and Amy dive deep into the heart of the upcoming 2024 election with the insightful women from Pantsuit Politics–Sarah Stewart Holland and Beth Silvers. The conversation centers around the distinct dynamics shaping this election, along with insight as to why it’s vastly different from 2016; sparking a thought-provoking dialogue about the evolving political landscape. With Vice President Kamala Harris potentially on the brink of breaking barriers as our first female president, the discussion also touches on the hopes and challenges ahead. Sarah and Beth were participants at the Democratic National Convention in August, and they share what that experience was like, and how it informed their views of the current political terrain. As we look to a potentially historic outcome, Beth and Sarah share practical ways we can engage in the process and build community as we navigate this pivotal moment together. You also won’t want to miss a new GenXcellence segment where Jen and Amy reminisce about their first voting experiences. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Humans rising to the moment; that just never gets old to me. That's what politics can really be--including politicians who I know get a really bad rap. But watching them come into a moment they couldn't have expected, watching history show up on their doorsteps and go, all right, let's do it. I think it's just been so exhilarating”. - Sarah Stewart Holland “I could talk all day about all the things that Vice President Harris has done that no one talks about. I have been on the train for years that Biden needed to be a one term president, and that she was an excellent successor to him. And I think it's played out in a really strange way that presents some challenges, but also some opportunities for her. I am thrilled that America is finally getting to have a real introduction to her.” - Beth Silvers “Good governance needs people advocating for really different approaches to legislation, to policy, to issues, to messaging.” - Beth Silvers Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Project 2025 - https://bit.ly/3XqR2jt New York Times Article about Jelly Roll - https://bit.ly/3MrFrKv I Think Your’re Wrong (But I'm Listening) by Sarah Stewart Holland & Beth Silvers - https://www.amazon.com/Think-Youre-Wrong-Listening-Conversations/dp/1400208416 Now What? By Sarah Stewart Holland & Beth Silvers - https://bit.ly/4cOXV2b Guest’s Links: Pantsuit Politics Website - https://www.pantsuitpoliticsshow.com/ Pantsuit Politics Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pantsuitpolitics/ Pantsuit Politics Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/pantsuitpolitics/ Pantsuit Politics Twitter - https://bit.ly/3Xsx32H Pantsuit Politics Substack - https://substack.com/@pantsuitpolitics Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s a brand new season of the show and we are thrilled to have Amy Hardin, Jen’s longtime friend, join us on the podcast for a whole new adventure in laughing at ourselves and learning from our incredible guests. The Lazy Genius herself, Kendra Adachi, joins Jen and Amy today to challenge our culture's obsession with productivity and time management. Kendra offers a revolutionary perspective: the problem isn't you — it's the capitalistic, patriarchal culture we've all been raised in. Kendra unpacks why traditional productivity advice often fails women and shares a more compassionate approach for managing busy lives. Whether you're drowning in laundry, juggling work and family, or simply craving a kinder way to approach your days, this conversation will leave you feeling seen, encouraged, and equipped with practical strategies. Discover how to: Shift your mindset from pursuing 'greatness' to embracing contentment Take small, sustainable steps instead of attempting drastic overhauls Adapt your systems to fit your unique life and needs Find freedom from rigid to-do lists and unrealistic expectations Don't miss Kendra's sneak peek into her upcoming book 'The Plan' - it just might change your life! * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: "I thought I just had to try harder or give up. And those are not the only two options, everybody. There's a wide middle between ‘try hard’ and ‘give up.’ And so that's when I pivoted my online writing to this space to the Lazy Genius Ecosystem, as you called it, which is, 'let's be a genius about the things that matter and lazy about the things that don't. And everyone gets to choose what those things are.'" - Kendra Adachi "I think that we forget that the paradigm that we all live under in a Western, capitalistic, patriarchal society is not one that supports what I'm talking about in many ways. And so, it's hard to do. It's very, very hard because the waters that we live in really do not support this kind of idea. So the problem is not you is what I'm saying. The problem is not you." - Kendra Adachi "Your to-do list is not the boss of you. It's a tool." - Kendra Adachi “93% of time management productivity books are written by men.” - Kendra Adachi Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Feed These People by Jen Hatmaker - https://shop.jenhatmaker.com/products/ftp-book The Lazy Genius Podcast - https://bit.ly/4drs4WB The Lazy Genius Way - https://www.thelazygeniuscollective.com/way For the Love Podcast ft. Kendra Adachi - https://bit.ly/3WUZdD7 The Plan by Kendra Adachi - https://www.thelazygeniuscollective.com/theplan For the Love Podcast ft. Emily P. Freeman - https://bit.ly/4cGSRNr Guest’s Links Website - https://www.thelazygeniuscollective.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/thelazygenius/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/groups/2548803345149849 Twitter - https://twitter.com/lazykendra Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s an exciting time here at the For the Love Podcast and we are excited to share a brand new season of the show, now featuring Jen’s longtime friend, Amy Hardin! Amy’s been popping into the show all summer, and we’re thrilled to welcome her with an official seat across from Jen for all our upcoming episodes! And what better way to get to know Amy and Jen together all over again than to bring on an Enneagram personality typing expert to give the nod to their beautiful partnership. Ian Cron, author, podcaster and Enneagram expert weighs in on Jen and Amy’s longtime friendship and gives a peek into how he thinks they will mesh as a podcast duo (tip of the hat to any friendships that are a “three” and “six” combo out there!). They also spend a little time talking about the Enneagram types of their partners—highlighting the dynamics in how different types complement (and sometimes clash with) each other. If you’re not familiar with the Enneagram, you’re going to be fascinated, and if you are, you’ll love hearing Ian’s incredible insight into many of the 9 personality types. PLUS, Ian for the very first time on any podcast, talks about his brand new book “The Fix: How the Twelve Steps Offer a Surprising Path of Transformation for the Well-Adjusted, the Down-and-Out, and Everyone In Between.” * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “What I love about Enneagram sixes is; you are practical, loyal, and very witty—in a wry, wonderful way. Your humor comes out as being very self-deprecating. Then sometimes, when you're on autopilot, you default to a lot of questioning and self-doubting, and sometimes you'll be seen as being skeptical or anxious.” - Ian Morgan Cron “What determines the health of a relationship has to do with how much self-awareness each of the two people in it have. So two types of people of any Enneagram type or combination can be great with each other to the degree that they're self-aware and they're doing their own personal work.” - Ian Morgan Cron “I think the friendship exchange between an Enneagram three and a six is really interesting and beautiful. The three’s ambition and drive are tempered by the six’s caution and loyalty.” - Ian Morgan Cron “People ask me all the time; are there two Enneagram types that really go better together than other types? I'm like--it's all about how self-aware you are. Any two types can do great together to the degree they're doing their work and sharing the journey of self-discovery.” - Ian Morgan Cron Resources Mentioned in This Episode: For the Love of The Enneagram - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-27/ For the Love Episode on Enneagram Fours ft. Ian Cron - https://bit.ly/3Aa6oPU Jen Hatmaker Book Club Podcast Episode ft. Hillary McBride - https://bit.ly/3AvW4lL For the Love Encore Episode ft. Bessel van Der Kolk - https://bit.ly/3YzyRcg The Story of You by Ian Cron - https://bit.ly/46FWbam The Fix It by Ian Cron - https://bit.ly/3WzFYyK The Road Back to You by Ian Cron - https://bit.ly/4dejnPf The Last Blockbuster - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8704802/ Find out your Enneagram type here: https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/ Typology with Ian Morgan Cron - https://www.typologypodcast.com/ Guest’s Links: Ian's Website - https://ianmorgancron.com/ Ian's Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/IanMorganCron/ Ian's Twitter - https://twitter.com/ianmorgancron?lang=en Ian's LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ianmorgancron Ian's Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/ianmorgancron/?hl=en Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jen and her longtime friend, Amy Hardin, return together to introduce this previous interview with Jennifer Garner that was one of For the Love’s top downloaded episodes of all time. Jen and Amy chat about their favorite Jennifer Garner projects and how impressed they are with her activism and philanthropic work. In the interview itself, Jennifer Garner shares how she navigates life as a mom, an entrepreneur, and an actress. So many of us have followed Jen's career through TV & film, but she takes us back to the early days when she fell in love with theater, doing auditions in New York while she slept on the floor of a friend’s home who offered a place to lay her head. We also find out that her first job was working with Melissa Gilbert (Laura Ingalls of Little House on the Prairie fame) and how that eventually led to working with J.J. Abrams in Felicity, who then cast her in her breakout role as the star of Alias. The two Jens discuss everything from what it’s like to raise kids as they transition from littles to bigs and what eventually drove Jen’s pursuits outside of Hollywood to co-found Once Upon a Farm and become involved with Save the Children. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Change is hard. I mean, I have a tendency to, or I did when I was younger, where I leapt into living in New York before I thought about living in New York. And then I leapt into moving to LA, and then had to absorb that, wait a minute, I just left this all. That was a big transition for me, because I didn't realize I had built a community for myself in New York.” - Jennifer Garner “I hunted down what organization was really doing work in rural America and Save the Children was all over the world. Our whole global goal is to help kids where no one wants to go and where no one's helping them. So we are in Afghanistan, we're always in the middle of the Ebola crisis, we're always in the middle of helping kids as they're leaving Syria. And we're in those refugee camps and we're in disasters, and we are hand in hand with the Red Cross, and just one of the leading organizations helping kids in the whole world. And in the US, the work is so beautiful. And it's almost unknown, because we're in the little tucked away corners.” - Jennifer Garner “I think food insecurity and poverty in America, it's a little bit invisible, because we want it to be. We choose what we look at. And so, it is, in some ways, easier to look across the globe and see it somewhere else in a country that is so different than ours or with such obvious distinctions. But the food insecurity in America is high, high, high.” - Jen Hatmaker “You know what I love? I love any community. I just like to be in a community.” - Jennifer Garner “What is saving my life right now? I mean, I can’t imagine it ever being anything other than girlfriends.” - Jennifer Garner Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Once Upon a Farm - https://onceuponafarmorganics.com/pages/jens-farm Save the Children - https://bit.ly/4dnOuHM 13 Going on 30 - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0337563/ The Last Thing He Told Me - https://bit.ly/4d9wEbK Love, Simon - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5164432/ Guest’s Links: Jennifer’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jennifer.garner/?hl=en Jennifer’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/thejengarner?lang=en Jennifer’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/JenniferGarner/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jen and her longtime friend, Amy Hardin, are back together to introduce this interview with Kate Bowler that originally aired as a premium channel episode. They examine the ways a “toxic positivity” mindset and a misguided understanding of “blessings” can harm relationships and culture. If you’ve ever felt your soul drag to the ground after reading a #blessed post on Instagram, there’s relief for you here. Kate Bowler shows us a gentler way to look at the concept of blessings, so that someone else’s #blessing doesn’t feel like our #fail. In the interview, Jen and Kate talk about: A brief history of the prosperity gospel in America and the origins of toxic positivity The original definition of “blessing” from the Bible The absurdity of life and how tragedy can feel when watching other people’s happiness What the point of praying is Kate tries out being a late night radio DJ and shares a blessing she wrote specifically for our podcast * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “[Toxic positivity] is the overemphasis, the bright siding of truth to the point where you can't be honest. You can't really say what's going on.” - Kate Bowler “There is frankly almost no relationship between people's lives working out and whether they are fundamentally good and lovable by God among other people, period.” - Kate Bowler “I was in a waiting room the other day looking over at two people absolutely cracking each other up over an oxygen machine. And I felt the flicker of the tragic comedy of the world, and I was like, ‘Yep, that is a little blessing.’” - Kate Bowler “Such a weird moment when your life is in tatters and then you just see somebody walking their dog. You're like, ‘What are you doing? How is that happening? Why are you laughing?’” - Jen Hatmaker “The more we take what we think we know, and then we just rearrange it a bit, it offers us a chance to see something.” - Kate Bowler Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Blessed: A History of the American Prosperity Gospel by Kate Bowler - https://bit.ly/46ynpPX The Lives We Actually Have, 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days by Kate Bowler - https://bit.ly/4ftQOie Everything Happens for a Reason and Other Lies I've Loved by Kate Bowler - https://bit.ly/46DRopS For the Love episode with Maggie Smith - https://bit.ly/4fwTfR4 Have a Beautiful Terrible Day by Kate Bowler - https://bit.ly/4cdiS6T Guest’s Links: Kate’s Website: https://katebowler.com/ Kate’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/katecbowler Kate’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/katecbowler/ Kate’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/katecbowler Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s an exciting time here at the For the Love Podcast and we are excited to share a brand new season of the show, now featuring Jen’s longtime friend, Amy Hardin! Amy’s been popping into the show all summer, and we’re thrilled to welcome her with an official seat across from Jen for all our upcoming episodes! And what better way to get to know Amy and Jen together all over again than to bring on an Enneagram personality typing expert to give the nod to their beautiful partnership. Ian Cron, author, podcaster and Enneagram expert weighs in on Jen and Amy’s longtime friendship and gives a peek into how he thinks they will mesh as a podcast duo (tip of the hat to any friendships that are a “three” and “six” combo out there!). They also spend a little time talking about the Enneagram types of their partners—highlighting the dynamics in how different types complement (and sometimes clash with) each other. If you’re not familiar with the Enneagram, you’re going to be fascinated, and if you are, you’ll love hearing Ian’s incredible insight into many of the 9 personality types. PLUS, Ian for the very first time on any podcast, talks about his brand new book “The Fix: How the Twelve Steps Offer a Surprising Path of Transformation for the Well-Adjusted, the Down-and-Out, and Everyone In Between.” * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “What I love about Enneagram sixes is; you are practical, loyal, and very witty—in a wry, wonderful way. Your humor comes out as being very self-deprecating. Then sometimes, when you're on autopilot, you default to a lot of questioning and self-doubting, and sometimes you'll be seen as being skeptical or anxious.” - Ian Morgan Cron “What determines the health of a relationship has to do with how much self-awareness each of the two people in it have. So two types of people of any Enneagram type or combination can be great with each other to the degree that they're self-aware and they're doing their own personal work.” - Ian Morgan Cron “I think the friendship exchange between an Enneagram three and a six is really interesting and beautiful. The three’s ambition and drive are tempered by the six’s caution and loyalty.” - Ian Morgan Cron “People ask me all the time; are there two Enneagram types that really go better together than other types? I'm like--it's all about how self-aware you are. Any two types can do great together to the degree they're doing their work and sharing the journey of self-discovery.” - Ian Morgan Cron Resources Mentioned in This Episode: For the Love of The Enneagram - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-27/ For the Love Episode on Enneagram Fours ft. Ian Cron - https://bit.ly/3Aa6oPU Jen Hatmaker Book Club Podcast Episode ft. Hillary McBride - https://bit.ly/3AvW4lL For the Love Encore Episode ft. Bessel van Der Kolk - https://bit.ly/3YzyRcg The Story of You by Ian Cron - https://bit.ly/46FWbam The Fix It by Ian Cron - https://bit.ly/3WzFYyK The Road Back to You by Ian Cron - https://bit.ly/4dejnPf The Last Blockbuster - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8704802/ Find out your Enneagram type here: https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/ Typology with Ian Morgan Cron - https://www.typologypodcast.com/ Guest’s Links: Ian's Website - https://ianmorgancron.com/ Ian's Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/IanMorganCron/ Ian's Twitter - https://twitter.com/ianmorgancron?lang=en Ian's LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ianmorgancron Ian's Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/ianmorgancron/?hl=en Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As part of our summer series of re-airing the best of “For the Love,” we also have Jen’s long time friend, Amy Hardin, joining Jen to introduce this episode that was originally aired on the premium channel. In this new episode, we’ll hear about Jen and Amy’s summer so far and what constitutes guilty pleasure TV binges. True crime might be considered a guilty pleasure, but if you haven’t done a deep dive into the genre, then this will be an eye opening conversation for you. We’ve got an amazing guest who is here to talk about the true crime podcast phenomenon, and she’s one of the folks that really put it on the map — Ashley Flowers, the host of the wildly popular podcast, Crime Junkies. Ashley Flowers and her co-host Brit have spent years researching, analyzing, and solving cases. And with over 1 billion downloads, it’s easy to say they are pretty good at what they do. Jen and Ashley get into how Crime Junkies got started, their thoughts on why the true crime genre is so popular and how Ashely’s using the platform to educate as well as entertain. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I was looking for something specific, and the way we tell the stories was all based on me as the fan, not coming into a genre and being like, ‘It's popular. What can I do to make it successful?’ It was, ‘What would I really care about?’ And I think that's been the success of this show, as it comes from such a genuine place.” – Ashley Flowers “I founded a nonprofit called Season of Justice that's all about funding testing for law enforcement. We pay the labs directly so we can do this advanced testing. Because I found in my work and the more I talk to families, the more I talk to law enforcement, one of the barriers over and over again was just finances. And that's where I was like, ‘I can fix that.’" – Ashley Flowers “If you're truly invested in the community, there are so many different ways you can get involved and use your own talents to make a real difference and help solve these cases. I'm a storyteller, I'm a business owner, and now I'm solving murders.” – Ashley Flowers Guest’s Links: All Good People Here by Ashley Flowers - ​​https://www.amazon.com/All-Good-People-Here-Novel/dp/0593496477 Ashley’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/ashleyflowers/?hl=en Crime Junkie’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/crimejunkiepodcast/?hl=en Season of Justice - https://seasonofjustice.org Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://Jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/Jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/JenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/Jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Móni Guzmán came to the US from Mexico with her family many decades ago. In the past two presidential elections, her parents voted for Trump while she voted for Clinton and Biden. This created the kind of tension that must be managed very carefully. Fortunately, and relatedly, Móni has professional experience with difficult conversations in her capacity as a senior fellow at Braver Angels. We lean heavily on the ideas in Móni’s book, I Never Thought of It That Way, in this episode and throughout our 5-part series on getting along: Rupture + Repair. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s been two years since Roe v. Wade was overturned by the Supreme Court. As the power to rule over women’s reproductive rights reverts to the states, we are seeing many move toward vast limitations of reproductive choices, including bans on terminating pregnancies, but also devastating impediments toward the processes that have helped those who are struggling with infertility have a chance to conceive. To open up this conversation and really delve into what this decision means, we have Jen’s longtime friend Amy Hardin joining the pod. As women who lived their childbearing years under the protections of Roe v. Wade, Jen and Amy discuss what the aftermath will look for the next generation of women. Later on the show, we’ll feature an interview with Dr. Natalie Crawford, a Reproductive Endocrinology & Infertility Specialist in Austin, TX who really helps us break down all the salient issues. Dr. Crawford sensitively approaches all the repercussions of not having a safe way for a woman to terminate a pregnancy that many of us may not have even considered. Wherever you stand on the issue of abortion, these conversations show the ripple effect this decision has had on women’s ability to make health choices for themselves and how it affects women who do wish to conceive and the hurdles they will now face. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Reproductive care doesn't exist in silos. Abortion access is just one part of the triangle of reproductive care. And fertility care is on one end and gynecological care and OB/GYN care is on the other, but they all exist together, for a variety of reasons.” – Dr. Natalie Crawford “You could die in pregnancy even though you have zero risk factors. We know that this happens. And so when we start assigning the idea that reproductive choice or ending a pregnancy is morally bad because you're killing a baby or a fetus, what we're really doing is devaluing the life of that mother who's carrying the baby because at any moment it could go a way that could turn lethal.” – Dr. Natalie Crawford “We have allowed politics to infiltrate medicine and people are getting cared for differently because of the current political world. That should terrify anybody who knows somebody in their life with a uterus, that really should terrify you.” – Dr. Natalie Crawford “Black women have three to four times the chance of dying in childbirth, even when controlled for proper prenatal care or socioeconomic class, meaning even if you are educated and you have access to care, the color of your skin is a contributing factor to you walking out of childbirth alive. That is devastating.” – Dr. Natalie Crawford “You're either a fan of reproductive care and you respect the fact that people deserve the integrity to make their choices with their medical professionals and their loved ones, or you don't.” – Dr. Natalie Crawford Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.nataliecrawfordmd.com Fora Fertility - https://www.forafertilityaustin.com Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/nataliecrawfordmd/ Twitter - https://twitter.com/ncrawfordmd Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://Jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/Jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/JenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/Jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re bringing back one of our most popular episodes ever on the pod - featuring “The Body Keeps the Score” author Dr. Bessel van der Kolk. And for a fun NEW take on the episode, Jen Hatmaker has asked one of her best friends, Amy Hardin, to join her to discuss their thoughts on this episode! Listen as Jen and Amy discuss their meet cute and then wade into the episode which delves into the relationship between trauma and the body, relating their personal experiences around this. Dr. Van Der Kolk is a psychiatrist, author, researcher and author of the book The Body Keeps The Score. He has spent most of his career researching the causes of post traumatic stress, and is continuing to come away with groundbreaking discoveries about the power of our bodies to protect and shield us. Dr. Van Der Kolk brings us to the intersection of embodiment, mental well-being, and neuroscience and examines how we can understand our bodies’ response to trauma so we can embrace our healing. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “People think about trauma as that thing that happened a long time ago. But that's not the issue, because that thing is over. It happened last year or 10 years ago, it's not happening today. But the traces that it leaves inside of you, are happening now.” - Dr. Bessel Van Der Kolk “When you're traumatized, you try to not have all the sensations and feelings, and you turn on music loudly, or you drink or you take drugs, to make those feelings go away. And then to experience your feelings becomes very difficult.” - Dr. Bessel Van Der Kolk “The most elementary thing is breathing. Our breath is the one thing in our body that happens whether we want it or not. And we can learn to breathe differently. So there's a physiological function that gives us access to some core pieces of ourselves, where you slow down your breath, you focus on breath, you activate your parasympathetic nervous system, and you do become calmer. That's where you start.” - Dr. Bessel Van Der Kolk “You cannot take care of yourself unless you accept yourself for who you are.” - Dr. Bessel Van Der Kolk “When you're traumatized, one thing becomes another thing. So to open that up, and open up the mind to new possibilities is incredibly important.” - Dr. Bessel Van Der Kolk Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Body Keeps The Score by Dr. Bessel Van Der Kolk - https://bit.ly/3zyCVPk Guest’s Links: Dr. Van Der Kolk’s Website - https://www.besselvanderkolk.com Dr. Van Der Kolk’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/thebodykeepsthescore Dr. Van Der Kolk’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/thebodykeepsthescore/ Dr. Van Der Kolk’s YouTube - https://bit.ly/3RZpoa8 Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Kirsten Powers is a tenured news analyst who lived inside our modern age’s belly of the beast — 24-Hour Network News. Kirsten Powers lived and breathed as a senior news analyst at Fox News and then CNN for years. Eventually, she hit a breaking point and realized living full throttle, enraged about the state of the world, wasn't doing her or anyone she loved any favors. She pulled back and began examining what it would be like if she stayed engaged in political news but also still centered and compassionate. Through her examination, she wrote an entire book about how to embrace grace and disengage from inflammatory discourse called “Saving Grace: Speak Your Truth, Stay Centered, and Learn to Coexist with People Who Drive You Nuts.” If you need some advice on how to balance that tightrope walk of being informed and actionable but not totally defeated by the litany of bad news, please join Jen and Kirsten as they determine what grace looks like when the world feels culturally and politically on fire. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I feel like what our culture is missing is grace. We don't have grace for each other, and I don't have grace for people, and I don't think other people have grace for people, for the most part. And I think it's because we don't really understand grace.” - Kirsten Powers “When you call things out, you need to call it behavior. You need to say, "You're doing X, Y, and Z, and this is a problem," versus, "You are X, Y, and Z, and you are a problem.” - Kirsten Powers “Boundaries were really hard for me. And one of the things that I discovered was, I think I thought of boundaries as almost aggressive. You're keeping people out, and that's not actually what they are. You're actually letting people know how to be in a relationship with you. So it's actually an act of grace, right?” - Kirsten Powers Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Richard Rohr on FTL Podcast: https://jenhatmaker.com/podcast/series-16/live-yourself-into-a-new-way-of-thinking-richard-rohr/ Saving Grace: Speak Your Truth, Stay Centered, and Learn to Coexist with People Who Drive You Nuts https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/saving-grace-kirsten-powers/1138990768?ean=9780593238233 Fierce, Free and Full of Fire: The Guide to Being Glorious You https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/fierce-free-and-full-of-fire-jen-hatmaker/1132184307?ean=9780718088163&aug=1 Kirsten’s Substack Newsletter: https://kirstenpowers.substack.com/ For the Love of the Enneagram (Jen’s podcast series on the Enneagram): https://jenhatmaker.com/podcast/series/series-27/ Guest’s Links: Kirsten’s Website: https://kirstenpowers.com/ Kirsten’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kirstenpowers10/ Kirsten’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/KirstenPowers/ Kirsten’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/KirstenPowers Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Bestselling author, R. Eric Thomas, wrote “Here for It” in 2020 and it continues to reverberate in the hearts and minds of readers because of its timely topics and riveting personal story—making it a perfect “revisit” for our book club community! With humor and vulnerability, Eric shares about his memoir which is equal parts hilarity and heart–and what it took to write about his intersecting identities as a Black, queer, Christian man. Join Jen and Eric as they traverse transforming the ordinary into the profoundly funny and insightful. Book Summary: In his memoir of essays “Here for It,” Eric attempts to define what it means to be an “other” through his experience growing up in two very different worlds — the urban landscape of his parents home in Baltimore and then the wealthy, white suburb where he went to private school. He tries to figure out how to reconcile all of this, not just these two wildly different racial and class spaces, but also his Christian upbringing with his sexuality as a gay man; the exhaustion of code switching; accidentally finding internet fame; covering the 2016 election and all of that aftermath. Ultimately, he is seeking to answer whether the future is worth it when everything seems to be getting worse. He re-envisions what could be by placing himself at the center of his own story and sharing his experiences with us. * * * Guest’s Links: R. Eric Thomas’s Website - https://rericthomas.com/ R. Eric Thomas’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/oureric/ R. Eric Thomas’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/oureric R. Eric Thomas’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/R.Eric.T/ Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Here for It or How to Save Your Soul in America by R. Eric Thomas - https://bit.ly/3KFKdTV The Preacher’s Wife - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Preacher%27s_Wife Congratulations, The Best Is Over by R. Eric Thomas - https://bit.ly/3RdAY1E Kings of Baltimore by R. Eric Thomas - https://bit.ly/3PxKvQ4 Dickinson (TV Series) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8518136/ Better Things (TV Series) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4370596/ The Moth - https://bit.ly/3Vl3YFb Andre DeShields - https://www.andredeshields.com/ Clue (The 1985 Movie) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clue_(film) Amy Dickinson - https://amydickinson.com/ R. Eric Thomas’s Here For It News Letter - https://letter.rericthomas.com/ Maxine Waters - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxine_Waters Ann Patchett - http://www.annpatchett.com/ Festival of Homiletics - https://festivalofhomiletics.com/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - http://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Our guest this week is bringing core insights into the kitchen so that everyone can: a.) enjoy cooking and b.) turn it from a massive chore to a bright spot in your day. Author, blogger and “accidental cook” Bri McKoy is here, talking with Jen about the best practices and advice on how to become the kind of cook you want to be for your own life. Drawn from her essential cookbook, “The Cooks Book: Recipes for Keeps and Essential Techniques to Master Everyday Cooking,” Bri wants to share what she’s learned in her kitchen so that everyone’s kitchen can become a place of confidence and joy. Jen and Bri dish on: Why it matters where you put things in your kitchen—and how small changes can make a big impact The Forever Grocery list, is Bri’s tried and true list of things you should always have on hand in your kitchen so that you limit your time shopping and planning Bri’s Kitchen Techniques - simple rules that help us make decisions in the kitchen What you need to know about pairing the right wine with the right foods and how to stock your bar with the essentials If there’s more cooking in your life this summer with kids at home, guests coming to visit, or budget-conscious cooking when traveling, this relatable episode will give you the tools you need to de-stress your kitchen and make it a place for great food and great fun! * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I come from a background of I didn't like cooking. I didn't wanna be in the kitchen. Every aspect of it, from the grocery shopping to the cleaning to the prepping was the worst. Then, when I started to learn how to cook, I became so much more joyful and less stressed out.” - Bri McKoy “I have this arsenal of these five basic things. That means I have become confident and joyful in the kitchen. I teach those tips, tricks, techniques, recipes so that other people can feel like even if they depart from my cookbook, they will have success with every other recipe they try.” - Bri McKoy “I always say that a sauce can make a meal. Like give it a glow up” - Bri McKoy Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Cooks Book: Recipes for Keeps and Essential Techniques to Master Everyday Cooking - https://bit.ly/3DQg6Ws Cooking MeCourse ft. Jen and Bri - https://jenhatmaker.com/me-course/cooking/ Feed These People (Jen’s cookbook) - https://jenhatmaker.com/feed-these-people/ The Joy of Cooking (Cookbook) - https://bit.ly/3YpPbdv Country Crock Buttery Spread - https://bit.ly/3OrCRER Wine & Spirit Education Trust - https://bit.ly/3OMZPb1 Come and Eat: A Celebration of Love and Grace Around the Everyday Table (Bri’s Latest Cookbook) - https://bit.ly/3qqt89T Guest’s Links: Bri’s Website - https://oursavorylife.com/ Bri’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/brimckoy Bri’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/brimckoy Bri’s Pinterest - https://www.pinterest.com/brimckoy/ Bri’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/brimckoy/ Bri’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNkSDrh24WkP4HQbCfnPtwA? Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Do you struggle to feel truly at home in your body? We’re here to tell you; that it is possible. Our episode this week is a topic we return to often because we just can’t hear it enough; how we can heal our connections to our bodies. We have author and embodiment expert, Prentis Hemphill on the show, and she and Jen explore the idea of healing through embodied practices. Prentis shares poignant insights from their work in the Black community processing racial trauma through reconnecting to embodied cultural practices. Here’s another piece of good news–when you heal your connection to your body, you present a vision of embodied healing that radiates outward - from ourselves to our communities. That in turn can transform oppressive cultures through grounded love. The possibilities are endless when we take agency over our bodies! Jen and Prentis discuss: the definitions of somatic practices and embodied healing the role of embodiment in individual healing, processing trauma, and developing resilience the connection between individual embodied healing work and the potential for broader cultural/societal healing and transformation the lack of short-term optimism for societal change, but how unshakable faith rooted in human connection and community will eventually turn the tide * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes; "Somatics is the study of how our experiences and traumas live in the body. It's also a story of how our bodies can be resilient." - by Prentis Hemphill "I think, generally, the times I feel most free are when I'm with my people and feel fully accepted and loved. When we're eating or dancing or we're cracking up and falling off the couch is when my body feels the absolute freest — when I'm in a loving community." - by Prentis Hemphill "I love embodiment. I think a lot of it fundamentally is trying to point us in the direction of relationship and authenticity, courage, and care. I think that's when we will be most embodied is when we can live those values." - by Prentis Hemphill "I think, generally, our culture just doesn't take the space and time to grieve the things that we need to grieve. We haven't celebrated the things we need to celebrate. There's a lot of denial and that stifles our growth. It keeps us, as a society, deeply immature. And I think if we could make some space for those things, a lot would change." - by Prentis Hemphill "There are no more words that can be said. We can keep talking, but there are not really any more words to say. There's something that has to happen. It has to take root in your belly. It has to be expressed through your actions. You have to change." - by Prentis Hemphill "To do anything [to create change] is going to be contingent on our ability to stay in relationship with each other." - by Prentis Hemphill Resources Mentioned in This Episode; The Black Embodiment Initiative at The Embodiment Institute - https://bit.ly/3xhlAda You Are Your Best Thing edited by Tarana Burke and Brené Brown - https://bit.ly/3z09C88 Holding Change by Adrienne Maree Brown - https://bit.ly/3RlD3Ig The Politics of Trauma by Staci Haynes - https://bit.ly/4cjpFwk What it Takes to Heal by Prentis Hemphill - https://bit.ly/4eoC6ZB Guest’s Links: Prentis’ Website - https://prentishemphill.com/ Prentis’ Twitter - https://twitter.com/prentishemphill Prentis’ LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/prentishemphill Prentis’ Finding Our Way Podcast - https://linktr.ee/findingourwaypod Prentis’ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/prentishemphill Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Coming in hot for our Queer Futures series, we’re bringing you an interview previously aired on For The Love’s Premium Podcast channel with celebrity Peloton instructor, Cody Rigsby. Cody has gained a devoted following through his engaging and motivational fitness classes on the Peloton platform. He talks about his memoir "XOXO Cody: An Opinionated Homosexual's Guide to Self-Love, Relationships and Tactful Pettiness" in which he opens up about transitioning from professional dance to fitness, his relationship with his mother who struggled with addiction and bipolar disorder, and how he aims to empower others through vulnerability and self-love. With his vibrant personality and inspirational story, Cody has become a celebrity in his own right. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I think the biggest obstacle to someone starting a fitness journey is feeling intimidated. You don't know what you're doing. You don't look like the people that are at the gym. Your body doesn't know what it's doing. So it's super overwhelming. So if you can take that and push it all to the side and just be like, ‘Okay, [where] in this space can I have fun?’” - Cody Rigsby “No matter how much we love anybody in our life, specifically our parents, dealing with addiction is hard. It's challenging. You don't really know the effects of it when you're a kid until you look back as an adult and be like, ‘Oh wow, that was really messed up.’” - Cody Rigsby “In life, it gets so busy. We're wrapped up in work, we really forget what life used to be or the struggles that we had and the aspirations that we have. Then you sit in the present and you have a moment of gratitude and say to yourself, ‘Wow, I have a lot of the things that I always wanted and I've let go of so many of the things that were holding me back.” - Cody Rigsby Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Cody on Dancing with the Stars - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JjDU_DKpeQ One Peloton Community - https://www.onepeloton.com/blog/ XOXO, Cody: An Opinionated Homosexual’s Guide to Self-Love, Relationships, and Tactful Pettiness - https://bit.ly/3z0FkSN Dancing with the Stars ft. Cody Rigsby - https://bit.ly/4cjlCjv Jess King: Peloton Instructor - https://www.onepeloton.com/instructors/bike/jessicaking Robin Arzón: Peloton Instructor - https://www.onepeloton.com/instructors/bike/jessicaking Glamorous (Netflix TV Series) - https://www.netflix.com/title/81076871 Tiger King (Netflix Documentary) - https://www.netflix.com/title/81115994 Guest’s Links: Cody’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/codyrigsby/ Cody’s Peloton Page - https://www.onepeloton.com/instructors/bike/codyrigsby Cody’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/codyrigsbyfitness/ Cody’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/CodyRigsby Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This powerful episode in our Queer Futures series features an enlightening conversation about power structures with Jen and renowned author Roxane Gay and co-writer Megan Pillow. The women explore not only the concept of individual power, but how we can engage in community empowerment. Together, they delve into how marginalized communities, particularly LGBTQ+ individuals, can claim their power and challenge existing power structures to create a more inclusive and just society. Discussion includes: Claiming Individual Power: How women, LGBTQ+ individuals, and others can assert their power in personal and professional spaces. Challenging Power Structures: The importance of calling out abuses of power and questioning the status quo Empowerment Through Solidarity: The role of community and collective action in amplifying individual voices and driving social progress. Re-examining Power Dynamics: How rethinking traditional notions of gender, race, and power can lead to more equitable outcomes. Focusing on the Margins: The significance of centering marginalized voices and experiences in conversations about power and progress. Roxane and Megan discuss practical steps that anyone can take to empower others around them. We’re encouraged to ask ourselves critical questions about our own relationships to power and to question the power sources that infringe on the rights of others and use our individual power to disrupt them. Every small act of resistance contributes to a larger movement for justice. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Power doesn't affect all of us equally and some people are able to wield power or are given power, and others have power wielded against them. There are all kinds of factors that contribute to the why of that.” - Dr. Roxane Gay “When you see an abuse of power, call it out and identify it. Oftentimes power works because nobody questions it and nobody challenges it.” - Dr. Roxane Gay "We have to use voting as one tool [to enact change], but we have to figure out other ways to be involved in our communities and to enact other forms of power, not just rely on voting as the singular tool that we use to try to enact change.” - Dr. Roxane Gay “The queer future is complicated. I think the queer future is much better than the queer past, and we are really enjoying a lot of freedom. But it's not enough and until all of us are free, none of us are free.” - Dr. Roxane Gay Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Bad Feminist by Dr. Roxane Gay - https://roxanegay.com/books/bad-feminist/ Difficult Women by Dr. Roxane Gay - https://roxanegay.com/books/difficult-women/ Hunger by Dr. Roxane Gay - https://roxanegay.com/books/hunger/ All of Roxane’s Books - https://roxanegay.com/books/ Do The Work: A Guide to Understanding Power and Creating Change by Dr.Roxane Gay and Dr. Megan Pillow - https://bit.ly/45nxhvd The Power Book: What is it, Who Has it, and Why? by Dr. Roxane Gay - https://bit.ly/3VBRYAl Obergefell v. Hodges (2015 Supreme Court case making same-sex marriages legal in the U.S.) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obergefell_v._Hodges Guest’s Links: Roxane’s Website - https://roxanegay.com/ Roxane’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/roxanegay74 Roxane’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/roxanegay74 The Audacity (Roxane and Megan’s Stubstack Blog) - https://audacity.substack.com/ Megan’s Website - https://www.meganpillow.com/ Megan’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/megpillow Megan’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/megpillow77/ Craftwork (Megan’s Substack Blog) - https://craftwork.substack.com/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this special bonus episode of the For the Love Podcast, Jen sits down with her literary hero — beloved author and teacher, Anne Lamott, whose candid, humorous writing has inspired millions to embrace their imperfect selves. Anne and Jen explore the hard-won wisdom distilled across Anne's 45-year career and 20 books - from finding radical self-love after a lifetime of shame, to surrendering to life's ordinary miracles during periods of existential crisis. With refreshing irreverence, Anne shares her lessons on unearthing your deepest, truest voice and faith that new paths are waiting, even when the way forward feels hopelessly obscured. Jen and Anne discuss The importance of radical self-love, letting go of shame, and being your own priority before trying to please or gain approval from others Having faith that there is a "shape" or path waiting for you, even if you can't see it yet, by surrendering and doing the work of self-examination The wisdom that comes with age in realizing how little you know The way small, mundane acts can be profound expressions of love and service to buoy you during dark periods For anyone who has ever felt cracked by life's circumstances, Anne's perspective provides a roadmap back to wholeness. Thought-Provoking Quotes: “[I've been] giving myself deeper and deeper permission to use my own voice and to stop trying to get people to like or respect me or to think I'm more educated than I am--which I'm not at all educated--and to just get kind of cleaner in my own being so that I could write the deepest I could go in my own truest voice and just get that day's work done one day at a time. It's like nautilus for the soul. To keep writing your truth with your own weird, quirky, way of expressing yourself and being affirmed that people seem to like it and to keep going.” - Anne Lamott "What love manifests is making more mistakes. Knowing as a writer, that a pile of papers and notes and index cards is a fertile field, and you don't need to know what you're going to do with them. They know what you're going to do with them. The material knows what you're going to do with it, and it's going to get back to you as it trusts more and more that you're a reliable narrator." - Anne Lamott “We do some deep dive into the obstacles to radical self-love and to just surrendering to the path of goodness or God or the holiness. The first thing God says to Moses is 'take off your shoes. Feel the earth beneath your feet. This is holy ground.' And that is what God has for you, starting right now. Take off your shoes and wiggle your toes in the earth. Look up. Breathe in. And when you are restored from what you've been through, all this nautilus for your soul you've been doing, you're going to step forward into that shape.” - Anne Lamott Resources Mentioned in this Bonus Episode: Bird by Bird: Some Instructions on Writing and Life - https://bit.ly/3K1JZGg Somehow: Thoughts on Love by Anne Lamott - https://bit.ly/3ytWzeK The American Way of Death by Jessica Mitford - https://bit.ly/3JZCP5s Hard Laughter: A Novel by Anne Lamott - https://bit.ly/4bFcO7b Five Rules of Being a Grown-Up (Article by CJ Green) - https://bit.ly/4bXbmxl 8 Best Anne Lamott Books -https://bit.ly/3yoWbyj Guest Links: Twitter - https://twitter.com/annelamott/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/AnneLamott/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/annelamott/ Penguin Random House - https://sites.prh.com/annelamott Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - http://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jen Hatmaker revisits one of the most impactful and downloaded episodes from her "For the Love" podcast's 7-year history. In this powerful encore, she has a candid conversation with acclaimed writer and speaker Jonathan Merritt who publicly comes out as gay for the first time during their interview. Jen and Jonathan reflect on their intertwined journeys - she as an ally leaving the evangelical world, he as a prominent faith voice reckoning with his sexuality. Brace yourself for an emotional, insightful look at the joy and pain of Jonathan's coming out experience. This is one powerhouse episode you won't want to miss again (or for the first time!). * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I had a choice. I could either leave the idea of being loved in that way and loving in that way behind and to get belonging and acceptance, or I could choose to be rejected by the people that I was given as a family and a faith community and I could go off on my own way and try to find love. And that's a tough decision.” – Jonathan Merritt “I'd grown up hearing this, ‘we hate the sin, we love the sinner.’ And yet, everywhere I looked was all this sin-hate. And there was no marking of loving these people.” – Jonathan Merritt “The number one reason that someone changes their views on homosexuality or same-sex marriage is how they answer the question, ‘Do you have a close family member or friend who is gay?’” – Jonathan Merritt “I live in an Episcopal seminary. You feel hundreds of years of prayers that have been prayed here by good people. People who joined the Civil Rights Movement. And people who were marching after the Stonewall Riots. And people who did it because they loved Jesus and not in spite of that fact.” – Jonathan Merritt "American evangelicalism is predicated on the existence of an enemy to fight, and that keeps people coming to church. It's the need to be against, right? And people revel in that, that's the selling point." – Jonathan Merritt Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Love is the Game Changer of Our Faith: Bishop Michael Curry - https://bit.ly/3BQ2FUl How to Create a Politics of Love: Lisa Sharon Harper - https://bit.ly/3IdV3gW Jen Hatmaker: Trump, Black Lives Matter, Gay Marriage & More - Jonathan Merritt - https://bit.ly/3IhrUS0 Christian Rock Star Comes Out as Gay in Letter to the World - Jonathan Merritt - https://bit.ly/3siB9Ms Eugene Peterson on Changing His Mind About Same-Sex Issues and Marriage - Jonathan Merritt - https://bit.ly/3LXWlyX Leading Evangelical Ethicist is now Pro-LGBT (David Gushee) - Jonathan Merritt - https://bit.ly/3LVOTUV A Faith of Our Own: Following Jesus Beyond the Culture Wars - Jonathan Merritt - https://bit.ly/3Vvj8J6 Dr. Michael Lindsay - Sociologist & Author - https://www.taylor.edu/about/president-profile James Martin - Jesuit Priest - https://www.instagram.com/jamesmartinsj/ My Guncle and Me by Jonathan Merritt - https://www.amazon.com/My-Guncle-Me-Jonathan-Merritt/dp/0762485612 Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.jonathanmerritt.com Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jonathan_merritt/ Twitter - https://twitter.com/JonathanMerritt Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jen and award-winning author, Kelly Barnhill, discuss the powerful themes and inspirations behind her genre-defying book "When Women Were Dragons." Sparked by her outrage during the Kavanaugh hearings, Barnhill created a bold metaphor where women transform into dragons to escape societal oppression. In this conversation, she delves into her controversial ending that ultimately represents the multitude of paths to female empowerment. Barnhill also examines the dangerous historical pattern of silencing trauma and marginalized voices, from the 1918 flu to violent racial tensions. Jen and Kelly discuss: “When Women Were Dragons’" exploration of women transforming into dragons as a metaphor for rebelling against oppression and societal constraints. The ending and how it represents there are multiple valid paths for women's empowerment - some transformative, others finding power in conventional roles. Highlights about the historical pattern of silencing traumatic events and oppression of marginalized groups. Portrayals of womanhood as expansive and defying rigid societal definitions of what a woman is or can be. Novel Summary: "When Women Were Dragons" by Kelly Barnhill is a feminist fantasy novel that explores themes of female empowerment, societal repression, and transformation. Set in an alternate 1950s America, the story revolves around a mysterious event known as the "Mass Dragoning of 1955," where a significant number of women across the country inexplicably turn into dragons and fly away, leaving behind their human lives. The protagonist, Alex Green, navigates life in the aftermath of this event. She grows up in a society that tries to suppress and erase the memory of the dragonings, facing the stigma and secrecy surrounding the topic. Alex's journey involves uncovering family secrets, particularly those related to her aunt Marla, who was one of the women who transformed. As Alex learns more about her aunt's life and the circumstances of the dragonings, she begins to understand the broader implications of the event and its connection to women's liberation and agency. * * * Guest’s Links: Kelly’s Website - https://kellybarnhill.wordpress.com/ Kelly’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/insufferable_blabbermouth/ Kelly’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/kellybarnhill Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Girl Who Drank the Moon by Kelly Barnhill - https://bit.ly/3Vd01m3 The Book of Dragons: An Anthology - https://bit.ly/4bO3ldN Kavanaugh Hearing - https://supreme.justia.com/justices/brett-m-kavanaugh/ 1918 Spanish Flu Pandemic - https://bit.ly/3ysjfvX The Book of Love: A Novel by Kelly Link - https://bit.ly/4btgQzN Nettle & Bone - https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250824776/nettlebone Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - http://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week’s top episode from the archives is our number one most listened to episode. In a profoundly moving encore episode, Jen Hatmaker shares the story of interviewing her daughter, Sydney, as Sydney shared her emotional coming out story. This raw conversation follows Sydney as she vulnerably shares her journey of accepting herself as gay while still holding onto her faith–and we’re very excited to share this again during Pride Month as part of our Queer Futures series. Jen reintroduces the episode reflecting on what’s changed since this conversation and how it’s affected her community. Three years later, this episode remains an incredible force, sparking deep discussions around LGBTQ+ issues and Christianity in our community. Jen recalls the immense reach and impact this episode evoked - from mending broken family relationships to causing church leaders to reevaluate their approach. As Jen reflects on Sydney’s growth, it’s a beautiful reminder that embracing authenticity allows people to flourish. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I was just scared, and alone. And I wanted to have it all. I wanted to have my family, and God, and my future. And I didn't think I'd be able to have it all.” -Sydney Hatmaker “It doesn't matter how loving you are, or what emphasis on Scripture you come with. That's not enough if you're not fully accepting them as children of God.” -Sydney Hatmaker “Your allyship can't be about you, and it can't be performative, and it has to be for everybody. And it has to be about love.” -Sydney Hatmaker Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices