Behavioral Grooves Podcast

Interested in a secret, underused marketing trick? Use rhyme in your design! You may easily recall examples like “Bounty: the quicker picker upper” or “Duracell: no battery is stronger, longer”. By including rhyming words in your marketing, your content is actually more memorable and more believable. This is just one of the 25 behavioral science tips that our expert guest, Nancy Harhut outlines in her comprehensive new book, “Using Behavioral Science in Marketing”. Nancy Harhutt is Co-Founder and Chief Creative Officer at HBT Marketing, a consultancy that specializes in applying human behavior techniques to marketing. Her new book Using Behavioral Science in Marketing: Drive Customer Action and Loyalty by Prompting Instinctive Responses is an easy-to-use guide on how to apply behavioral insights. “Behavioral science is tailor made for marketing. At the end of the day, marketers are trying to convince people to do something, we're trying to influence behavior.” While Nancy’s book is written for those in the marketing field, it is applicable to anyone trying to negotiate, influence or strategize with others. One of the things that makes the book such a helpful guide is Nancy’s use of industry stories to illustrate the effectiveness of her applied behavioral science techniques, and she shares some of these with us in our discussion. Kurt and Tim talk with Nancy about the weightiness of temporal landmarks, such as birthdays and fresh starts; why rhyming is an underused secret in marketing; and the reason why the reciprocity principle can be so effective with clients. Whether your job title is in marketing or you frequently find yourself trying to influence others behavior, you will gain some useful insight from Nancy’s interview. If you are a regular listener of Behavioral Grooves, please consider becoming a supporter too, through the Behavioral Grooves Pateron page. Topics (3:24) Welcome and speed round questions. (6:11) How behavioral science can be incredibly useful in marketing. (9:04) How Nancy first used the autonomy bias in a marketing campaign. (13:43) How do you measure marketing results? (17:28) What are the differences between labeling and framing? (24:14) The secret of rhyming in marketing. (30:29) How birthdays can impact our behavior. (36:00) Is marketing missing any tricks? (43:29) How the default settings on Spotify changed. (49:05) What music would Nancy take to a desert island? (51:32) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim. © 2023 Behavioral Grooves Links Nancy Harhut’s book: “Using Behavioral Science in Marketing: Drive Customer Action and Loyalty by Prompting Instinctive Responses”: https://amzn.to/41CAC72 Nancy Harhut: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nancyharhut Stephen Sondheim: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Sondheim Frank Lesser: https://www.franklesser.com/ Stephen Schwartz: https://stephenschwartz.com/ Episode 351, How One Small Word Can Transform Our Motivation, Success And Relationships with Jonah Berger: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/words-can-transform-jonah-berger/ Ogilvy: https://www.ogilvy.com/ Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves Musical Links West Side Story “Maria”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39WPioTx1zQ The Beatles “Help”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Q_ZzBGPdqE Wicked “Defying Gravity”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEq3xM-i0Ng

Is a happy life one that is abundant with pleasure? Or one without pain? Or one that overcomes struggle? The quest for a good life may go beyond the scope of a psychological study. But bestselling author, Paul Bloom does believe that psychology can help us maximize the circumstances that contribute to our happiness. In the second part of our interview with psychologist Paul Bloom we delve more into his book “Psych: The Story of the Human Mind”. Not only do we discuss the factors that lead to a happy life, we talk to Paul about the evolution of selfish versus altruistic behaviors, the ongoing debate between nature versus nurture, how maximizers and satisficers differ and what exactly hypophobia is. If you’d like to listen to the first part of Paul’s interview, tune in to episode 352 and you'll also enjoy our previous discussion with Paul about his book, The Sweet Spot in episode 241. Become a podcast follower of Behavioral Grooves and you will automatically be notified when our new weekly episodes go live. Topics (2:23) Why Paul hasn’t written a psychology textbook. (5:03) The evolution of kindness and selfishness. (11:57) Nature vs. nurture. (15:30) Why do we care more about our differences than our similarities? (18:07) Maximizers vs. satisficers? (20:28) Is language infinite in principle, but finite in practice? (22:19) What is a good life? (27:34) Do a lot of our politicians have hypophobia (lack of fear)? (30:47) What music would Paul take to a desert island? (34:30) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim. © 2023 Behavioral Grooves Links Episode 352, Psychology: Should Freud Still Be On The Syllabus? Paul Bloom, Part 1: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/psychology-freud-on-the-syllabus/ Paul Bloom’s book “Psych: The Story of the Human Mind”: https://amzn.to/3MF6raM Episode 241 with Paul Bloom, Why Finding Pleasure in Life is a Painful Journey: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/pleasure-is-a-painful-journey/ Lila Gleitman: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lila_R._Gleitman Noam Chomsky: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noam_Chomsky Randolph Nesse: https://www.randolphnesse.com/ Musical Links The White Lotus Soundtrack “I Want to Live”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8I9ffEzCPIA Elton John “The Last Song”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5eEQJZm7ZM David Bowie “Changes”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BgF7Y3q-as Tracey Chapman “Fast Car”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIOAlaACuv4 Joan Armatrading “Already There”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChMcN0ke1eA Suzanne Vega “Walk on The Wild Side”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEXGLRLhWls Led Zeppelin “Stairway to Heaven”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ly6ZhQVnVow Pink Floyd “Time”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qr0-7Ds79zo

Ask someone to name a famous psychologist and there’s a good chance they’ll say Sigmund Freud. Describing a person as “anal” or rebuking someone with “I'm not your mother”, are both references to Freud’s work. Since many of his outlandish theories have long been debunked, should he still be part of psychology teaching? Author Paul Bloom lays the case for why he has dedicated a whole chapter to Freud in his new book Psych. This is the first of two episodes with Paul Bloom, who we are warmly welcoming back to the Behavioral Grooves Podcast following his previous interview in episode 274 back in 2022. Paul joins us to discuss his new book, Psych: The Story of the Human Mind. And since we had such a fascinating (and long!) conversation with Paul, we decided to break it into two, more digestible, episodes. In this first episode, we spend time discussing the history of psychology, delving into the importance of Freud, Skinner and Milgram and the impact that behaviorism had. We also jump to the hypothetical future of psychology and where the field may make seismic progress over the next 50 years. By becoming a follower of Behavioral Grooves Podcast, you will automatically be notified when the second episode of Paul’s interview is released next week, on Monday, April 24th. In that interview, we will delve more into Paul’s book. We will talk about the impetus to write Psych, selfish vs altruistic behaviors, and what makes a good life. Topics (5:00) Welcome to Paul Bloom and speed round questions. (9:33) Why Paul wrote the book Psych. (12:15) Why Sigmund Freud had a whole chapter in the book. (18:08) The reason Paul doesn’t have much love for B.F. Skinner. (25:09) Milgram experiments during a wild west time in psychology. (29:33) Do we have free will? (33:42) How will the field of psychology change over the next 50 years? (37:49) The failures of neuroscience. (42:41) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim on the history of psychology. © 2023 Behavioral Grooves Links Paul Bloom’s book “Psych: The Story of the Human Mind”: https://amzn.to/3MF6raM Episode 274 with Paul Bloom, Why Finding Pleasure in Life is a Painful Journey: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/pleasure-is-a-painful-journey/ Sigmund Freud: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigmund_Freud Episode 67, George Loewenstein: On a Functional Theory of Boredom: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/george-loewenstein-on-a-functional-theory-of-boredom/ Carl Jung: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Jung B.F. Skinner: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B._F._Skinner Episode 247, Stanford Prison Experiment, 50 Years On: What Have We Really Learnt? With Dr Philip Zimbardo: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/stanford-prison-experiment/ Stanley Milgram experiment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment Episode 312, How To Find Meaning IN Life | Dr Brian Lowery PhD: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/meaning-in-life-brian-lowery/ Episode 248, Do We Control Situations or Do Situations Control Us? With John Bargh: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/control-situations-with-john-bargh/

With curiosity we can figure out what we actually want. Sometimes what we desire makes us feel uncomfortable, and as a therapist, our guest Charlotte Fox Weber makes space for that discomfort. Join us as she highlights her observations from the therapist's chair. “I think curiosity is a life force. It engages us, it galvanizes us, it's inspiring, and it gets us to pay attention.” ~ Charlotte Fox Weber Many people see a therapist to help them work through psychological issues. But have you ever considered what the dynamic is like from the point of view of the therapist? If you were a fly on the wall, what would you observe behind the closed doors? Charlotte Fox Weber brings a unique perspective to the therapist-client relationship. Her new book “Tell Me What You Want: A Therapist and Her Clients Explore Our 12 Deepest Desires”: https://amzn.to/3ZJ9XUl, expertly pulls out recurring themes from her years as a therapist which are beautifully illustrated with captivating stories. According to Charlotte, we each have 12 fundamental psychological needs that we all share but often hide. These universal desires are: to love and be loved; understanding, power, attention, freedom; to create, to belong, to win, to connect, to control; and to want what we shouldn’t. With her experience as a therapist, Charlotte is aiming to help us navigate our desires through curiosity and authenticity. If we can more accurately acknowledge what we actually want, we can live a more fulfilled life. “The 12 desires I describe, all have to do with recognition.” ~ Charlotte Fox Weber Our interview with Charlotte was recorded a few weeks ago when Tim Houlihan was unwell, so our producer Mary Kaliff joins Kurt on this episode as co-host of the show. But you’ll be pleased to know that Tim is doing much better now and you’ll be hearing his familiar voice on all upcoming episodes again! Topics (1:56) Welcome and speed round questions. (4:09) Why is it so hard for us to say what we want? (8:14) Why curiosity is so important in therapy. (11:37) The 12 desires that we each experience. (13:27) Do we have desires that stay consistent throughout our life? (18:22) How do we reconcile all of our identities? (20:14) Why do we struggle holding two truths simultaneously? (25:42) How jazz music helps us appreciate the notes unplayed. (29:50) Of the 12 desires, which one makes us most uncomfortable? (33:53) The cost of giving or paying attention. (36:39) Grooving session with Kurt and Mary. © 2023 Behavioral Grooves Links Charlotte Fox Weber: https://charlottefoxweber.com/ Charlotte’s book: “Tell Me What You Want: A Therapist and Her Clients Explore Our 12 Deepest Desires”: https://amzn.to/3ZJ9XUl Shankar Vedantam TED Talk “You don't actually know what your future self wants”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtfaccGmCCs Episode 325, Can You Unlearn History And Still Love Your Country? With Dolly Chugh: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/dolly-chugh/ Episode 178, Kwame Christian: On Compassionate Curiosity, Social Justice Conversations, and Cinnamon Toast Crunch: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/kwame-christian-on-compassionate-curiosity-social-justice-conversations-and-cinnamon-toast-crunch/ Episode 344, How To Frame Incentives To Drive The Desired Behavior with James Castello: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/incentives-to-drive-behavior/ Episode 237, Attention: How to Capture It and Keep It with Ben Parr: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/attention-with-ben-parr/ Episode 303, From Distracted To Focused: Nir Eyal’s Secrets On How To Be Indistractable: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/nir-eyal-how-to-be-indistractable/ Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves Musical Links Nina Simone “Feeling Good”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHRNrgDIJfo

Words matter. Unbelievably, tiny changes to language can have a big effect on behavior. Hear bestselling author, Jonah Berger reveal the magic words that can completely transform how we behave, in this riveting episode. Almost everything we do involves words. But have you ever stopped to consider how much influence the words you choose can have on the person reading your email, or listening to your presentation? Some words are more impactful than others. In fact, we can captivate, motivate and convince people with our words. But which words are the most powerful? Listen in to find out: How words can shape our identity. Tips on using language to positively affect our relationships. How simply changing the words in an email can dramatically alter behavior. Jonah Berger’s last book, “Magic Words: What To Say To Get Your Way” is a succinct summary of the latest scientific research on words and language. Jonah joins us on Behavioral Grooves, not only to tell us about what to expect in the book, but also to recount the story of how the idea for the book was sparked by a delayed flight. Jonah is a former guest of Behavioral Grooves Podcast, having previously been on the show to discuss his bestselling book The Catalyst: How to Change Anyone's Mind. He is a professor at The Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania and is known as a world-renowned expert on natural language processing, word of mouth, influence, consumer behavior, and why things catch on. Word of mouth is the number one way that new listeners find out about Behavioral Grooves podcast. If you feel wiser having listened to this episode, please share it on social media or email it to your friends and encourage them to become a listener too. Thank you! Topics (3:27) Welcome and speed round questions. (5:09) Why asking for advice makes us actually seem smarter. (7:17) Using abstract vs. concrete language. (12:42) How Jonah researched the use of language. (16:49) How can our language affect our relationships. (19:31) Turning actions into identities. (22:47) Priming behavior with language. (25:00) Do the lyrics of songs help explain their success? (28:27) Grooving Session with Tim and Kurt on why words matter. © 2023 Behavioral Grooves Links Jonah Berger: https://jonahberger.com/ Jonah’s book, “Magic Words: What To Say To Get Your Way”: https://amzn.to/3Kp9r9T Episode 201, The Counterintuitive Persuasion of The Catalyst with Jonah Berger: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/the-catalyst-with-jonah-berger/ Episode 147, Gary Latham, PhD: Goal Setting, Prompts, Priming, and Skepticism: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/gary-latham-goal-setting-prompts/ Episode 319, John Bargh: Want to Know How Priming Works? It Starts With Your Conscious, Not Your Unconscious: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4B_UYYPb-Gk&ab_channel=RUNDMCVEVO Leonardelli, Geoffrey & Pickett, Cynthia & Brewer, Marilynn. (2010). Optimal Distinctiveness Theory. Advances in Experimental Social Psychology: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/241065845_Optimal_Distinctiveness_Theory Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves Musical Links Suzanne Vega, DNA “Tom's Diner”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4jtIDaeaWI RUN DMC - Walk This Way featuring Aerosmith: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4B_UYYPb-Gk&ab_channel=RUNDMCVEVO

What lies ahead for applied behavioral science? How can we learn from the massive growth in the field over the last 15 years? Our guest, Michael Hallsworth, has very recently published a manifesto on the future of behavioural science and we’re privileged to discuss this landmark publication with him on this episode. Dr Michael Hallsworth PhD has been on the forefront of thought leadership and scholarship in behavioral science for many years. Having earned his PhD in Behavioural Economics from Imperial College in London, he has since spent most of his career working in either public policy or on corporate applications around the world. He is now the Managing Director, North America for the Behavioural Insights Team (BIT). Stemming from the original Behavioural Insights Team formed at the heart of the UK government in 2010, BIT has grown into a global company, driving positive change in communities and organizations all across the world. Having grown international teams, demonstrated workable behavioral results and shaken up policies around the world, Michael felt it was a good time for BIT to reflect on how far they had come. In the Manifesto for Applying Behavioural Science, Michael lays out 10 proposals that chart the path forward for behavioral science. We touch on these proposals in our discussion with Michael and the opportunities they present for the future. * Behavioral science is a global field but unfortunately the spelling is not! In an effort to be diplomatic, we are using both spellings in the show notes! Topics (4:54) Why does behavioural science need a manifesto? (7:18) What are some of the major themes? (11:15) How Michael is flipping the prospective on scaling. (16:37) Using behavioral science as a lens. (21:33) Putting randomized controlled trials (RCTs) in their place. (26:02) Choice infrastructure. (30:25) The vulnerability of behavioral science to overconfidence. (35:09) Reframing our language away from rational vs irrational behavior. (39:25) Using algorithms to reduce inequities rather than exploit vulnerabilities. (47:28) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim on applying behavioral science. © 2023 Behavioral Grooves Links Manifesto for Applying Behavioural Science: https://www.bi.team/publications/a-manifesto-for-applying-behavioral-science/ Misconceptions about the Practice of Behavioral Public Policy: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4328659 EAST Model: https://www.bi.team/publications/east-four-simple-ways-to-apply-behavioural-insights/ Mindscape Framework: https://thedecisionlab.com/reference-guide/neuroscience/mindspace-framework Ruth Schmidt, Zeya Chen, Veronica Paz Soldan (2022) Choice Posture, Architecture, and Infrastructure: Systemic Behavioral Design for Public Health Policy: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2405872622000661 Ruth Schmidt & Katelyn Stenger (2021). Behavioral brittleness: The case for strategic behavioral public policy: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/behavioural-public-policy/article/behavioral-brittleness-the-case-for-strategic-behavioral-public-policy/200D5BBC2947F7AB0CD4B4CD71B6A607 Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves

What if there was a way to end poverty and solve climate change, that might actually work. Shouldn’t we try it? Our guest Erik Angner thinks economics holds the solutions to some of the world’s biggest problems but that economists have done a woeful job of PR! He’s on a mission to change that. Erik Angner PhD is Professor of Practical Philosophy at Stockholm University. He holds, not one but two PhDs – in Economics and in History and Philosophy of Science – both from the University of Pittsburgh. Erik joins us on Behavioral Grooves to discuss his new book How Economics Can Save the World. He is also the author of two other books, Hayek and Natural Law and A Course in Behavioral Economics as well as multiple journal articles and book chapters on behavioral and experimental economics; the science and philosophy of happiness; and the history, philosophy, and methodology of contemporary economics. Please join us on Behavioral Grooves Twitter (@behavioralgroov) to take part in some poll questions around Erik’s episode and discuss this conversation. Topics (3:34) Welcome and speed round questions. (7:12) What exactly is economics and how is it useful? (11:15) How can economics save the world? (13:10) How we can actually solve poverty. (17:14) Scarcity and how it influences our behavior. (21:08) The scarcity of healthcare. (24:35) Why trust is the critical factor in vaccination take-up. (28:55) What are the unintended consequences? (31:30) How can economics solve climate change? (36:36) How social norms influence our behavior. (41:29) Does money make us happy? (49:11) What music would Erik take on a desert island? (51:40) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim on saving the world. © 2023 Behavioral Grooves Links Erik Angner PhD: https://www.erikangner.com/ Erik’s book “How Economics Can Save the World: Simple Ideas to Solve Our Biggest Problems”: https://amzn.to/3YU49qN Episode 102, Christina Bicchieri, PhD: Social Norms are Bundles of Expectations: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/cristina-bicchieri-social-norms-are-bundles-of-expectations/ Friedrich Hayek: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Hayek Jeremy Bentham: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10902-010-9204-z#:~:text=Bentham%20defined%20happiness%20in%20terms,seen%20as%20contribution%20to%20happiness. Musical Links Tom Waits “Hold On”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P5jV4lHHR0 PJ Harvey “This Is Love”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STxXS5lLunE

To be influential you do not require power, but wielding your influence is powerful. Vanessa Bohns, social psychologist and professor of organizational behavior at Cornell University, joins us to discuss her enticing new book “You Have More Influence Than You Think”. She draws from her research to illustrate why underestimating our influence can lead us to miss opportunities or worse yet, to misuse our power. Vanessa challenges us to examine our powers of persuasion and to recognize that we have more influence than we even realize. We learn exactly why it’s so hard for us to say no, even when we’re uncomfortable with saying yes. And why we should focus on communicating more with people face-to-face. As with all of our episodes, we leave you with a Grooving Session discussion focusing on how we can use Vanessa’s research to improve our lives, our relationships and our workplaces. Maybe this episode will influence you more than you realize? If it does, please support our ongoing work by contributing to our Patreon page at (just imagine, if we asked you in person, would you say yes?). This is episode is republished from our discussion with Vanessa in 2021, but her research and insights have come up in our discussions time and time again. Topics (3:19) Welcome to Vanessa Bohns. (5:46) How your enjoyment of chocolate is influenced by others. (8:15) The spotlight effect; is everyone really looking at me? (12:34) How can we influence people more than we think? (17:20) How Vanessa discovered people are likely to help, if you ask. (23:34) Why it’s so much harder to say no than we think. (26:50) How power amplifies your influence. (29:22) Why we need to recognize white privilege as a position of power. (32:47) Communication: why our choice of words matter. (34:13) Robert Cialdini’s Influence. (36:30) What are the most common misconceptions about influence? (41:07) What are the 2 biggest takeaways from the book? (43:52) How music has influenced Vanessa. (49:13) Grooving Session discussing how to apply Vanessa’s research. © 2023 Behavioral Grooves Links “You Have More Influence Than You Think: How We Underestimate Our Power of Persuasion, and Why It Matters” Book by Vanessa Bohns: https://amzn.to/39vCDIN John Bargh, Episode 248: Do We Control Situations or Do Situations Control Us? With John Bargh: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/control-situations-with-john-bargh/ Shankar Vedantam, Episode 222: How Delusions Can Actually Be Useful: Shankar Vedantam Reveals How: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/shankar-vedantam-useful-delusions/ Cristina Bicchieri, Episode 102: Social Norms are Bundles of Expectations: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/cristina-bicchieri-social-norms-are-bundles-of-expectations/ “Shared Experiences Are Amplified” Erica J. Boothby, Margaret S. Clark, John A. Bargh (2014): https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0956797614551162 “Good Lamps Are the Best Police: Darkness Increases Dishonesty and Self-Interested Behavior” Chen-Bo Zhong, Vanessa K. Bohns, Francesca Gino (2010): https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0956797609360754 Robert Frank on the Power of Peer Pressure in Fighting Climate Change: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmOUNgXKd0c&ab_channel=Rare Robert Cialdini, Episode 226: The Power Of Unity: Robert Cialdini Expands His Best Selling Book Influence: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/cialdini-unity-in-influence/ How to Start a Movement | Dan Sivers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V74AxCqOTvg Musical Links Bronksi Beats “Smalltown Boy”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88sARuFu-tc Sleigh Bells “Locust Laced”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzLOcmRRUfg The National “Light Years”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FQtSn_vak0 Vampire Weekend “This Life”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwkrrU2WYKg David Bowie “Ashes to Ashes”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyMm4rJemtI Harry Styles “Watermelon Sugar”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKlD97TnYwM Billie Ellish “Everything I Wanted”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgBJmlPo8Xw Taylor Swift “Willow”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsEZmictANA Nirvana “Smells Like Teen Spirit”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTWKbfoikeg

Working and parenting often feel like being pulled in two different directions. But what if we could reframe our thinking and actually appreciate that our experiences in one role can enhance the quality of life in the other. We explore the ways you can reframe your mindset with author and podcaster Yael Schonbrun. “If we’re able to see that there are opportunities for our roles to feed each other, then we're more likely to to access those experiences and benefit more from them.” ~ Yael Schonbrun, Episode 346 Yael Schonbrun is an assistant professor of psychology at Brown University, a family therapist, and co-host of the podcast Psychologists Off the Clock. In her new book Work, Parent, Thrive: 12 Science-Backed Strategies to Ditch Guilt, Manage Overwhelm, and Grow Connection (When Everything Feels Like Too Much) Yael offers practical strategies from clinical psychology and social science to better manage the conflict and enhance enrichment in work, parenting, and the balance of these meaningful roles. Regular listeners will have noticed that co-host of the show, Tim Houlihan is unfortunately off sick for a few episodes of Behavioral Grooves. So on this episode, producer of the show, Mary Kaliff, joins Kurt Nelson for the discussion with Yael. Listeners can jump on social media (Twitter: @THoulihan or LinkedIn) and wish Tim a speedy recovery. We hope this episode provides you with some practical tools to help you work, parent and thrive. If you do enjoy Behavioral Grooves, please write a short review of the show on your podcast player. Just sharing a short sentence about why you like the show can make it easier for other people to find the podcast. Topics (3:32) Welcome and speed round questions. (8:33) Why parenting is difficult even for experts. (12:07) How a mindset shift can change how we view our parenting and our work. (16:00) The questions you can ask yourself to change your mindset. (19:22) How Yael tapped into her own personal values during a difficult time. (24:46) Pains live right alongside gains. (29:32) How Jewish kibbutz communities raised children. (32:42) Why we need to quit the things that aren’t working. (36:36) How to nurture more independence in our children. (40:03) The 3 components of self compassion. (45:34) Modeling the behavior that you want your kids to develop. (46:54) What music would Yael take to a desert island? (48:54) Grooving Session with Kurt and Mary on working, parenting and thriving. © 2023 Behavioral Grooves Links Yael Schonbrun: https://yaelschonbrun.com/ Yael’s book, “Work, Parent, Thrive: 12 Science-Backed Strategies to Ditch Guilt, Manage Overwhelm, and Grow Connection (When Everything Feels Like Too Much)”: https://amzn.to/3IVEzNk Growth mindset, Carol Dweck: “Mindset: The New Psychology of Success”: https://amzn.to/3J7V9tD Episode 327, A Proven Way Expectations Can Unlock A More Positive Life | David Robson: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/expectations-and-a-positive-life/ Episode 345, The Tools You Need To Embrace Uncertainty | Nathan and Susannah Harmon Furr: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/tools-to-embrace-uncertainty/ Episode 342: Why Resilience Is More Than Just Bouncing Back | Gabriella Rosen Kellerman MD: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/resilience-more-than-bouncing-back/ Musical Links Weird Al Yankovic “Another One Rides The Bus”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79QxturUolo Taylor Swift “Midnight Rain”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Odh9ddPUkEY

We all face uncertainty at some point in our lives. But do we embrace it or resist it? Our thoughts about uncertainty and ambiguity shape the actions we take when we are faced with change. If we reframe how we view uncertainty, we can rewrite the story we tell ourselves. “The way we describe something to ourselves and others, shapes how we think, decide and act.” Our guests on this episode are the most delightful husband and wife team, Nathan Furr and Susannah Harmon Furr who have written a fantastic book together, “The Upside of Uncertainty: A Guide to Finding Possibility in the Unknown”. Ironically recording this episode has been plagued with uncertainty. Our first attempt, last summer, was bugged with audio issues, and since then we have faced a number of technical glitches. When we finally got a chance to sit down and re-record an interview with them recently, it unfortunately fell at a time that our own Tim Houlihan was unable to join the conversation due to illness. So Kurt Nelson embraced the uncertainty and flew solo on this interview! We learn from Nathan and Susannah about the types of uncertainty and some of the tools that they have devised to overcome those periods of our lives when everything seems unsure. We know you’ll take away a lot from this discussion, and we encourage you to also read their book which is packed full of useful advice. One thing we are certain about at Behavioral Grooves is how much we appreciate and rely on the support of you, our wonderful listeners. If you feel able, please join our growing community of Patreon supporters. Topics (2:25) Welcome and speed round questions. (8:20) How achievers step into uncertainty. (11:05) Planned uncertainty vs. unplanned uncertainty. (14:30) Uncertainty and possibility are two sides of the same coin. (21:32) Some of the tools to overcome uncertainty. (27:54) The possibility quotient. (33:22) How do uncertainty balancers counteract the unknown? (36:09) Why we should take more risks with options that inspire us. (39:32) Breaking down big uncertainties into small steps. (44:31) Don’t wait until all the pieces are in place. (47:36) The sustaining tools to help when you need a boost. (50:38) How emotional hygiene can help you face the ups and downs of uncertainty. (52:43) The UP School. (55:13) The musical experience that changed Nathan’s life. (1:00:54) Grooving Session with Kurt on grabbling with uncertainty. © 2023 Behavioral Grooves Links Nathan and Susannah’s book “The Upside of Uncertainty: A Guide to Finding Possibility in the Unknown”: https://amzn.to/3ZiuXBv UP: https://www.theupsideofuncertainty.com/ UP School: https://www.theupsideofuncertainty.com/learn Buckminster Fuller: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckminster_Fuller Reconstructed Living Labs (RLabs): https://rlabs.org/ Guy Winch, emotional hygiene: https://www.ted.com/talks/guy_winch_why_we_all_need_to_practice_emotional_first_aid?language=en Musical Links Vincenzo Lamagna’s adaption of Giselle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27lgUp_FboE&ab_channel=VariousArtists-Topic

If you want to incentivize an outcome, don’t just focus on the final reward, hone in on the behavior that will drive the result. Whether we’re motivating our employees, our kids or ourselves, we can all benefit from learning how to effectively drive behavior. “ Incentives drive behavior. So if you don't get the behaviors right, that's where incentives go off the rail.” ~ James Castello, Episode 344 Our guest on this episode is James Castello, Vice President of Field Operations and Incentive Compensation Practices at TGaS Advisors. TGaS Advisors is one of the leading consultancies focused on the pharmaceutical industry. They provide insights and real world knowledge to hundreds of the leading life science companies around the world. While this episode is focused on how incentives can be created effectively to reach sales targets, the takeaways from the discussion with Jim can be applied to many aspects of our lives. Be sure to join Kurt and Tim in the Grooving Session in the last portion of the episode, as they summarize the most applicable aspects of the interview. Topics (6:25) Welcome and speed round question. (8:32) Collaboration is just a means to an end. (10:49) Incentives drive behavior. (13:44) The influence of the pandemic on incentives. (17:25) How do you align incentives with behaviors? (20:05) The importance of language in incentives. (25:14) What exactly is goal setting? (33:04) Breaking goals into manageable chunks to remove objections. (38:54) Do contests work well for driving sales? (47:00) What music would Jim take to a desert island? (51:02) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim discussing incentives. © 2023 Behavioral Grooves Links Brain/Shift Journal Shopify: https://www.100behaviors.com/products/the-brain-shift-journal-volume-1 Brain/Shift Journal Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Brain-Shift-Journal-1/dp/B0BN2JZBJ2/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=brain+shift&qid=1670950820&sr=8-1 James Castello: https://trinitylifesciences.com/our-experts/james-castello/ T-GaS Advisors: https://www.linkedin.com/company/tgas-advisors/ 100th Episode of Behavioral Grooves: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/the-100th-episode-celebration-in-philadelphia/ Lake Wobegon Effect: https://psychology.fandom.com/wiki/Lake_Wobegon_effect Musical Links Bob Dylan “Like a Rollin’ Stone”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwOfCgkyEj0 AC/DC “It's a Long Way to the Top (If You Wanna Rock 'N' Roll)“: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vj_rvLVpqg8&ab_channel=AC%2FDC-Topic Metallica “Enter Sandman”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD-E-LDc384

First impressions matter but when it comes to dating, don't get blown away by the myth of the "relationship spark". Some people can instead be characterized as a "slow burn"; a person who you like more and more each time. We revisit an episode with dating coach, behavioral scientist and author of How Not To Die Alone, Logan Ury about how to date successfully. Logan Ury studied psychology at Harvard, was a TED Fellow, then became a behavioral scientist at Google, where she ran Google’s behavioral science team – which we now know as The Irrational Lab. She became a dating coach and is currently the Director of Relationship Science at the dating app Hinge, where she leads a research team dedicated to helping people find love. Her work has appeared in The New York Times and The Atlantic, among a variety of media outlets, including HBO and the BBC. Aside from those cool things, we wanted to talk to her because she is the author of How To Not Die Alone. In our conversation with Logan, which was originally recorded in early 2021, we talk about the challenges people face in getting prepared for dating, making the most of their dating experiences, and maintaining great relationships once they’ve landed in one. She shared her insights into how to overcome some of the common hurdles and to make the most out of each phase of the dating life. We had an interesting discussion about why moving from ‘romanticizer’ or ‘maximizer’ to ‘satisficer’ can make a big difference in your relationships (and in life). We talk about the Monet Effect and how we need to work hard to overcome some of our biggest biases – like the fundamental attribution error and negativity bias. She was also kind enough to share a little bit about her communal living conditions and her recommendation that we all need more significant others – OSO’s – in these turbulent times. NOTE #1: The “F” word features prominently in our conversation since it’s in the title of one of her book’s chapters. NOTE #2: Christina Gravert joined for our Grooving Session as our first-ever Grooving Partner, and you’ll hear her in the introduction, as well. We’re pleased that our good friend was named by Forbes magazine as one of the top behavioral scientists you ought to know. Christina teaches Economics at the University of Copenhagen, is a co-founder of Impactually, a behavioral consultancy, she has been a guest on Behavioral Grooves (episode 16 on creating a Nudge-A-Thon), and was a speaker at Nudge.It North 2021. © 2023 Behavioral Grooves Links Logan Ury: https://www.loganury.com/ “How to Not Die Alone”: https://amzn.to/3JSmDUz Ira Glass: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ira_Glass Dan Ariely: https://danariely.com/ Esther Perel: https://www.estherperel.com/ John Gottman, The Gottman Institute: https://www.gottman.com/ Eli Finkel: https://elifinkel.com/ Daniel Gilbert: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Gilbert_(psychologist) Jane Ebert: https://www.brandeis.edu/facultyguide/person.html?emplid=0fd6834b65b0eddec69f2ab77539fd341d63b270 Alain De Botton “School of Life”: https://www.theschooloflife.com/about-us/faculty/alain-de-botton/ Reiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reiki “Algorithms to Live By”: https://algorithmstoliveby.com/ John Nash “A Beautiful Mind”: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Forbes_Nash_Jr. Nicole Prause: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicole_Prause 36 Questions That Lead to Love: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/09/style/no-37-big-wedding-or-small.html The School of Life books: https://www.theschooloflife.com/shop/us/books/ Shelley Archambeau – Episode 204: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/how-shelley-archambeau-flies-like-an-eagle/ Christina Gravert – Episode 16: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/nudge-a-thon-with-dr-christina-gravert/ Christina Gravert, “Online Dating Like a Game Theorist”: https://behavioralscientist.org/online-dating-like-a-game-theorist/ Christina Gravert – Impactually: https://impactually.se/ “10 Behavioral Scientists You Should Know”: https://www.forbes.com/sites/alineholzwarth/2020/10/29/10-behavioral-scientists-you-should-know/?sh=36ad80b442e0 Musical Links “Hamilton” soundtrack: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPSWZUExZ8M Chance the Rapper “Coloring Book”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeChAs-bI3A Bush “Glycerine”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvXbHN5Gijw%C2%A0

There are actually 5 drivers of resilience; optimism, self compassion, cognitive agility, self efficacy and emotional regulation. We dive deep into each of these components and how they play a part in being resilient, with our guest Gabriella Rosen Kellerman MD. Gabriella is a medical doctor and behavioral science researcher with training in psychiatry and fMRI research. She currently works as Chief Product Officer at BetterUp – a company focused on employee wellbeing. But today’s episode is dedicated to talking about her latest venture - co-writing a new book with none other than the “the father of positive psychology” Martin SeligmanPhD. Their book, Tomorrowmind: Thriving at Work with Resilience, Creativity, and Connection―Now and in an Uncertain Future is a hopeful look at how to flourish in an uncertain world. By capitalizing on a Tomorrowmind, we can utilize the universal psychological skills for thriving in an uncertain future: resilience and cognitive agility; mattering and purpose; rapid rapport for social support; prospection; and creativity and innovation (PRISM). Join our insightful and thoughtful conversation with Gabriella to learn how we can adopt a tomorrowmind. And then stick around for our Grooving Session where Tim discusses the part of the interview that sent chills up his spine, and Kurt gets philosophical about what it means to be optimistic. Topics (3:24) Welcome and speed round questions. (5:58) What is a Tomorrowmind? (7:26) Why are creativity and prospection superpowers? (10:05) The phases of prospective thinking. (13:11) Why the right answer can be to ask a different question. (15:45) What is positivity resonance and why does it matter? (21:32) What are the consequences of time famine on connection? (23:17) A story of resilience - Aggie Dunn of Heinz. (26:55) What exactly does it mean to be resilient? (29:31) How does self compassion play a part in resilience? (31:53) The 5 building blocks of resilience. (34:40) Writing a book with Martin Seligman. (36:56) What music does Gabriella listen to at home? (39:40) Grooving Session with Tim and Kurt on Tomorrowmind. Links Tomorrowmind: Thriving at Work with Resilience, Creativity, and Connection―Now and in an Uncertain Future: https://amzn.to/3jnu9Mt Episode 31, Leaving the Matrix: Annie Duke and Insights into how you can improve your thinking! https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/leaving-the-matrix-annie-duke-and-insights-into-how-you-can-improve-your-thinking/ Episode 225, Behind NOISE and Beyond The Book: Linnea Gandhi Shares her New Course on Noise: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/behind-noise-linnea-gandhi/ Episode 283, Is The Anus Really The Key To All Intelligent Life? | Henry Gee: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/anus-the-key-to-intelligent-life/ Growth After Trauma by Richard G. Tedeschi: https://hbr.org/2020/07/growth-after-trauma Episode 214, Observing the Non-Obvious: How to Spot Trends Around You with Rohit Bhargava: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/the-non-obvious-rohit-bhargava/ Musical Links Nickel creek “Reasons Why”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lyZQB1H_Zw Bach “Piano Concerto in D Minor”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_yGiFHbQR0 Pharrell Williams “Happy”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbZSe6N_BXs

“Brands really matter, when and only when they matter to consumers. And this is fundamentally a question of human connection.” ~ Matt Johnson To get under the skin of how branding works, what makes it effective and how to build a successful brand, we talk with Matt Johnson PhD, who is an expert on the human side of business. Matt is a speaker, researcher, and writer specializing in the application of psychology and neuroscience to marketing. We discuss everything from the difference of brand strategy, brand personality and brand meaning, all the way to how brands can get involved in activism. “What determines if you're a great brand is if your values and your attributes and your characteristics resonate with your target market.” ~ Matt Johnson Our conversation doesn’t just appeal to marketers, however. In our usual lighthearted style, Kurt and Tim touch on Matt’s love of Arsenal, his appreciation for pumpkin spice lattes, and the music that helps him come up with creative ideas. As a former guest on Behavioral Grooves, we are delighted to welcome Matt back to discuss branding and marketing. Matt’s recent book, “Branding that Means Business: How to Build Enduring Bonds between Brands, Consumers and Markets” which is co-written with Tessa Misiaszek, provides a really informative overview of the application of marketing in organizations. Listen in to this episode to get a flavor for the expertise that Matt brings to his field. Behavioral Grooves relies on the support of listeners. If you’d like to be part of the community of supporters of the show, please visit our Patreon page. Topics (5:27) Welcome and speed round questions. (11:48) Why branding is at a crossroads now. (15:30) What is the difference between brand strategy, brand personality and brand meaning? (18:45) Why are some brands better at connecting with people? (25:39) The intersection of neuroscience and marketing. (27:47) Why Matt thinks we should steer away from the word consumer. (30:20) How the communication landscape has changed branding. (34:21) Social identity in branding. (37:45) How brands can play a part in activism without becoming tribal. (45:51) Can brands break through the noise? (48:26) What music would Matt take to a desert island? (53:10) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim discussing branding. © 2023 Behavioral Grooves Links Behavioral Grooves on LinkedIn: Behavioral Grooves Behavioral Grooves on Twitter: @behavioralgroov Behavioral Grooves on YouTube: Behavioral Grooves Behavioral Grooves on Instagram: @behavioralgrooves Behavioral Grooves on Facebook: Behavioral Grooves Send Behavioral Grooves an Email: [email protected] Support Behavioral Grooves on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves Matt’s book, co-written with Tessa Misiaszek, “Branding that Means Business: How to Build Enduring Bonds between Brands, Consumers and Markets”: https://amzn.to/3Jk2zdL Matt’s blog “Neuroscience Of”: https://www.neuroscienceof.com/branding-blog Episode 177, Matt Johnson & Prince Ghuman on Mid-Liminal Marketing and the Ethics of Applied Neuroscience: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/matt-johnson-prince-ghuman-on-mid-liminal-marketing-and-the-ethics-of-applied-neuroscience/ Episode 235, Make Choice Rewarding: Behavioral Insights in Marketing with Matthew Willcox: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/marketing-matthew-willcox/ Musical Links The Beatles “Don’t Let Me Down”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCtzkaL2t_Y Pierre Boulez “Livres Pour Cordes”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omeOdqO05W4&ab_channel=EuroArtsChannel

Context heavily influences our behavior (regular listeners of the show know our “context matters” mantra well!). Sometimes, because of what life throws at us, we have to re-evaluate our options. The best choice isn’t always the perfect choice. For instance, in an ideal world, we might be planning a 5 mile run after work. But instead we need to collect our sick child from school early and have to settle for a 2 mile run on the treadmill in the basement, or some dancing in the kitchen while we unload the dishwasher. It’s the perfect, imperfect choice, or what our guest, Michelle Segar calls The Joy Choice. Michelle Segar PhD is an award-winning lifestyle coach and sustainable behavior change researcher at the University of Michigan. For nearly three decades, she has pioneered methods to create sustainable healthy behavior change that are being used to boost patient health, employee well-being, and gym membership retention. “My approach to creating sustainable change is fundamentally grounded in changing people's mindsets.” ~ Michelle Segar PhD In this episode, we are lucky enough to talk to Michelle about her new book, “The Joy Choice: How to Finally Achieve Lasting Changes in Eating and Exercise”. We discuss why Michelle steers away from habits as a way of framing behavior change, the role of the executive function, and of course, how music influences her life. Topics (3:20) Welcome and speed round questions. (7:31) Why we all need to find The Joy Choice. (14:26) Why do we beat ourselves up about missing exercise and diet goals? (17:35) How our identity can motivate our behavior change. (20:22) The shortcomings of the habit loop. (25:10) The role of the executive function in our decision making. (30:45) To what degree do mindsets, belief systems and branding play? (35:58) How the TRAP and POP models help us with selecting The Joy Choice. (43:36) How Michelle finds joy in music. (48:02) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim on The Joy Choice. © 2023 Behavioral Grooves Links Michelle Segar: https://michellesegar.com/ Michelle on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michellelsegar/ Michelle on Twitter: @MichelleSegar “The Joy Choice: How to Finally Achieve Lasting Changes in Eating and Exercise”: https://amzn.to/3GTve6m It’s Time to Unhabit and Think Critically About Whether Habit Formation Has Been Over Valued as a Behavior Change Strategy Within Health Promotion: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/08901171221125326f Episode 277, No Regrets? Really? Why Regrets Actually Bring Us Hope | Daniel H. Pink: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/why-regrets-bring-us-hope/ Episode 327, A Proven Way Expectations Can Unlock A More Positive Life | David Robson: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/why-regrets-bring-us-hope/ Episode 307, Groove Track | Mind Over Milkshakes: Why Expectations Matter A Lot: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/mind-over-milkshakes-groove-track/ Zingermans in Ann Arbor, MI: https://www.zingermansdeli.com/ Musical Links Earth, wind and fire “September”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gs069dndIYk

Ever need to read a book in a hurry? How can you absorb the most relevant content in a short period of time? Join Kurt and Tim as they talk to their friend Christian Hunt of the Human Risk Podcast, for tips and tricks to read quickly and effectively. We’ve all been stuck with a last minute deadline that involves getting through a large amount of reading material. How do you approach it? As podcasters, we read a lot of content before interviewing the guests. So how do Kurt and Tim from Behavioral Grooves Podcast and Christian from the Human Risk Podcast tackle such a mammoth task. This is a special episode for Behavioral Grooves that was recorded a few months ago in Abbey Road studios when Kurt and Tim were in London, UK. Christian has joined us many times on the podcast so we enjoyed talking about a different topic on this episode. Topics (4:15) What to look for when you open the book - Kurt. (8:54) Christian on why it’s not always good to speed read the whole book. (12:19) What Tim’s “Kahneman Index” is exactly! (14:10) How speed reading a research paper is different from a book. (20:22) The top 2 tips on speed reading from Christian, Kurt and Tim. Other Episodes You Will Enjoy Episode 86, Christian Hunt: Mitigating Human Risk and The Algorithmic Mind: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/christian-hunt-mitigating-human-risk-and-the-algorithmic-mind/ Episode 336, The Best Behavioral Science Books Of 2022 (According to Kurt and Tim!): https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/best-2022-behavioral-science-books/ Episode 277, Daniel H. Pink - No Regrets? Really? Why Regrets Actually Bring Us Hope: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/why-regrets-bring-us-hope/

Small changes can have big effects. Standing on a different set of scales can affect our weight loss journey and adding friction to the share button online can reduce the spread of misinformation. Find out from Irrational Lab’s Managing Director, Evelyn Gosnell how they are researching the behavioral insights that make a big difference in the world. Evelyn Gosnell is a frequent speaker in behavioral economics and consumer psychology. She is an expert in helping companies use the science of decision-making to better understand how real people think and behave, thereby creating better products and services for them. Evelyn and her team at Irrational Labs are using behavioral science to solve some of the big, wicked problems that plague us - from obesity to misinformation. In our discussion with Evelyn, we also touch on the application of behavioral science in organizations and why you don’t need a PhD to transform yourself into a Behavioral Product Manager. One of the best takeaways from the interview is the 3B Framework that anyone can use to unlock behavior change: Define the behavior Reduce barriers Increase benefits We really hope you enjoy our conversation with Evelyn. If you did, we'd really like you to consider supporting the production of Behavioral Grooves, through our Patreon page. Or if you’d like a cost free way of supporting the podcast, please write a review of the show on your podcast app. Thanks! Topics (2:24) Welcome and speed round questions. (4:09) Using behavioral science to lose weight. (11:17) How Irrational Labs researched weight loss programs. (15:47) Reducing spread of misinformation on TikTok. (26:06) The 3B Framework to unlock behavior change in organizations. (34:47) How Evelyn’s childhood has influenced her relationship with music. (37:41) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim discussing Evelyn’s interview. © 2023 Behavioral Grooves Links Evelyn Gosnell on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/evelyn-gosnell-behavioral-design/ and Twitter: https://twitter.com/evelyngosnell Irrational Labs: https://irrationallabs.com/ Burning Man: https://burningman.org/ Shapa: https://home.myshapa.com/ “Bringing Users Back to the Forefront: 3 Sustainable User Engagement Tips from Behavioral Science” by Evelyn Gosnell: https://irrationallabs.com/blog/putting-back-users-to-the-forefront-sustainable-engagement-tips-from-behavioral-science/ “How behavioral science reduced the spread of misinformation on TikTok”: https://irrationallabs.com/case-studies/tiktok-how-behavioral-science-reduced-the-spread-of-misinformation/ The 3B Framework to unlock behavior change: https://irrationallabs.com/3bs-download/ “TytoCare Case Study: How Can We Encourage People to Complete Virtual Medical Visits?“: https://irrationallabs.com/case-studies/tytocare-virtual-medical-visits/ “Move Over, Product Manager: Introducing the Behavioral Product Manager”: https://irrationallabs.com/blog/move-over-product-manager-introducing-the-behavioral-product-manager/ Brain/Shift Journal Shopify: https://www.100behaviors.com/products/the-brain-shift-journal-volume-1 Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves

Finding your groove - ever wondered what that actually means? And why is this podcast really called Behavioral Grooves?! Kurt and Tim explain what it means to get in your groove and the 3 foundational steps that will help you get there. If you need to find your groove again in 2023, listen to this expert advice. It’s a long running joke on the podcast, that when settling on the name “Behavioral Grooves” for the show it meant two different things to hosts Kurt and Tim. While getting “in the groove” has parallels to being in a state of flow or routine, musical Tim equates it to being absorbed in a melodic rhythm. While finding your groove in your work, and getting your musical “groove on” could be seen as two opposing interpretations of the phrase, Kurt and Tim expertly weave them together in this episode. “Our life is made up of a playlist of many, many songs with many different keys and many different rhythms and many different tempos.” ~ Tim Houlihan, Episode 337 After identifying what finding your groove actually means, we discuss the three factors that help us get there: Mindset Rhythm Environment In a refreshing exchange which veers away from our normal New Year episode on setting goals and forming new habits, Kurt and Tim will help you find your groove in 2023. How appropriate that the first Grooving Session of the year is on how to get your groove back!

Scaling behavioral science initiatives from a small research study to a large population is a topic we have enjoyed delving into this year with John A. List in Episode 296. And we are delighted to be joined on this episode by Neela Saldanha PhD who focuses her work on developing the science around scaling policy interventions. Neela is the Executive Director of the Yale Research Initiative on Innovation and Scale (Y-RISE) which focuses on researching complexities of scaling policy interventions and bringing together global experts to overcome the challenges of scaling. Her work history touches academia, non-profits and the private sector, as well as spanning the globe, including India and the US. We are grateful to Neela for giving us time to discuss her work on this episode. Our ongoing production of the Behavioral Grooves Podcast is gratefully aided by our Patreon members. If you have enjoyed listening to Behavioral Grooves in 2022, please consider donating to our work through the Behavioral Grooves Patreon page. We also love reading reviews of the podcast, which in turn, helps others find our content. Topics (3:37) Welcome and speed round questions. (8:01) Neela’s work at Y-RISE. (12:12) The challenges of scaling research findings. (20:16) Applying behavioral science tools in the field of behavioral science. (23:40) The bottlenecks to applying behavioral science in organizations. (27:51) What are the WICKED problems that need to be solved? (38:00) Music Neela would take to a desert island. (40:33) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim discussing Neela’s interview. © 2022 Behavioral Grooves Links Neela Saldanha: https://neelasaldanha.com/ Yale Research Initiative on Innovation and Scale (Y-RISE) at Yale University: https://yrise.yale.edu/ “Behavioral Science in the Wild (Behaviorally Informed Organizations)”: https://amzn.to/3xxAD04 David Yokum PhD, Episode 282: Why Applying Behavioral Science to Public Policy Delivers Better Policy: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/behavioral-science-in-public-policy/ John A. List, Episode 296. Fail to Scale: Why Good Research Doesn’t Always Make Great Policy | John A. List: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/fail-to-scale-john-a-list/ John A. List’s book, “The Voltage Effect: How to Make Good Ideas Great and Great Ideas Scale”: https://amzn.to/3a0GOjh Episode 289, Why Not All Nudges Work ”In The Wild” | Nina Mazar PhD & Dilip Soman PhD: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/why-not-all-nudges-work-in-the-wild-nina-mazar-dilip-soman/ Diversifi: https://www.diversifiglobal.com/ Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves Musical Links Beethoveen’s 9th Symphony: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkQapdgAa7o&ab_channel=OsloPhilharmonic Beethoven’s 5th Symphony oboe solo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8axcI1K1I1U R.D. Burdman Bollywood hits: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QE2NsbDM0M

One of the ways we find our groove is through knowledge – sometimes new ideas, sometimes repeated ideas that are presented in new ways. Sometimes, it’s just reminders of old ideas that deserve a new look. And we love the fresh ideas that we’ve read about this year in the very notable Behavioral Science books of 2022. Kurt and Tim sit down, in this episode, to discuss the highlights of the books they’ve read in 2022. To save you some time, they have compiled a summary of why they liked each book, and what you can expect to get from reading it. We’d love to hear about your favorite books of the year. What stood out for you on your book shelf? Have any of your reads this year helped you find your groove? Share your thoughts with Behavioral Grooves on social media: Twitter: @behavioralgroov LinkedIn: Behavioral Grooves Instagram: @behavioralgrooves Facebook: Behavioral Grooves Links Robert Livingston, “The Conversation: How Talking Honestly About Racism Can Transform Individuals and Organizations”: https://amzn.to/3j1tYGb David McRaney, “How Minds Change: The Surprising Science of Belief, Opinion, and Persuasion”: https://amzn.to/3NvGMPp Henry Gee, “A (Very) Short History of Life on Earth: 4.6 Billion Years in 12 Pithy Chapters”: https://amzn.to/3I8HH4W Annie Duke, “Quit: The Power of Knowing When to Walk Away”: https://amzn.to/3z47JEP Ayelet Fishbach, “Get It Done: Surprising Lessons from the Science of Motivation”: https://amzn.to/3f3ooh4 Seth Stephens-Davidowitz, “Don’t Trust Your Gut: Using Data to Get What You Really Want in Life”: https://amzn.to/3yICKwT John A. List, “The Voltage Effect: How to Make Good Ideas Great and Great Ideas Scale”: https://amzn.to/3a0GOjh Daniel Pink, “The Power Of Regret: How Looking Backward Moves Us Forward”: https://amzn.to/3gpU1C9 Jennifer Moss, “The Burnout Epidemic: The Rise of Chronic Stress and How We Can Fix It”: https://amzn.to/3K3O4be Jonathan Malesic, “The End of Burnout: Why Work Drains Us and How to Build Better Lives”: https://amzn.to/3tDdS8j Max Bazerman, “Complicit: How We Enable the Unethical and How to Stop”: https://amzn.to/3UKjfNJ Dolly Chugh, “A More Just Future: Psychological Tools for Reckoning with Our Past and Driving Social Change “: https://amzn.to/3Cgs9eq Linda Babcock, “The No Club: Putting a Stop to Women’s Dead-End Work”: https://amzn.to/3KPuUFM Nina Mazar & Dilip Soman, “Behavioral Science in the Wild (Behaviorally Informed Organizations)”: https://amzn.to/3xxAD04 Zoe Chance, “Influence Is Your Superpower: The Science of Winning Hearts, Sparking Change, and Making Good Things Happen”: https://amzn.to/3EYKXOz Sam Tatam, “Evolutionary Ideas: Unlocking ancient innovation to solve tomorrow’s challenges“: https://amzn.to/3I6ANwX Paul Bloom, “The Sweet Spot: The Pleasures of Suffering and the Search for Meaning”: https://amzn.to/3Kmpweh Episode 270, The Behavioral Science Books We Just Couldn’t Put Down in 2021 With Louise Ward: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/best-behavioral-science-books-2021/ Episode 194, The 10 Best Behavioral Science Books for 2020: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/10-best-behavioral-science-books/

Want to start a journaling habit but worried you won't stay motivated? Having the right journal, that is designed using behavioral insights to keep you engaged, is the key. In this unique Grooving Session, our very own Kurt Nelson takes the hot seat along with his Lantern Group business partner, Ben Granlund to talk about their highly anticipated new product - the Brain/Shift Journal. This new journal is seeped in behavioral insights that help you clearly define and then actually reach your goals. Previous Behavioral Grooves guest, Katy Milkman, has highlighted that a distinct time in the calendar, like the New Year, is a great time for a fresh start when you can embrace a new habit. And journaling is a popular daily practice that is known to enhance your wellbeing and focus your energy on reaching your goals. In this episode, you will learn: How the Brain/Shift journal came about. Who the journal is for. What you can expect to get out of using it. Whether you are new to journaling, or you have tried before but couldn't keep up the habit, the Brain/Shift journal can help you. It makes a perfect gift for yourself or someone you love at Christmas. Links Brain/Shift Journal Shopify: https://www.100behaviors.com/products/the-brain-shift-journal-volume-1 Brain/Shift Journal Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Brain-Shift-Journal-1/dp/B0BN2JZBJ2/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=brain+shift&qid=1670950820&sr=8-1 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/100behaviors Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/100behaviors/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/100behaviors Musical Links Against Me "Black Me Out": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWB_b480-9c The Bouncing Souls "Up To Us": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdSmmTQ2_Lc Dave Hause "Without You": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpRjukRq3Hc Dire Straits "Money For Nothing": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTP2RUD_cL0 The Proclaimers "I Would Walk 500 Miles": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otXGqU4LBEI

We know human behavior isn’t rational. But this episode illustrates behavior using a surprising concept - game theory. This eye opening conversation with Erez Yoeli delves into what game theory is and the remarkable way it can be used to explain the things we think, feel and do. Our guest, Erez Yoeli has co-authored a new book, alongside Moshe Hoffman, called “Hidden Games: The Surprising Power of Game Theory to Explain Irrational Human Behavior”. Erez is a research scientist at the MIT Sloan School of Management and he teaches the undergraduate Game Theory course at Harvard. His research focuses on altruism: understanding how it works and how to promote it. To explain what exactly game theory is, we have turned to Britannica’s user-friendly definition;“economics is much like a game, wherein players anticipate each other's moves, and therefore, it requires a new kind of mathematics, which they called game theory.” This explanation opens the door to exploring how our behavior is influenced by our anticipation of the moves and choices of those around us. We hope you enjoy our fun and mind blowing chat with Erez on how game theory can bridge the divide between the rationality of classical economics and the irrationality of behavioral science. If you are a regular listener to Behavioral Grooves, please consider supporting the production of the podcast through Patreon https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves. Or write a review of the podcast on whatever app you’re listening on. Thanks! Topics (2:47) Welcome and speed round questions. (4:59) What exactly is game theory? (10:03) The Prisoners Dilemma. (13:23) Erez’s favorite game theory model. (14:48) What are categorical norms? (17:07) Game theory and gender balance. (23:26) The distinction between errors of omission and commission. (27:26) How we can look at behavioral science differently. (28:51) What is motivated reasoning? (32:22) Can exchanging rocket fire actually maintain peace? (39:45) What would Erez’s desert island music be? (44:00) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim on Hidden Games. © 2022 Behavioral Grooves Links Limited time offer - 23% Discount Brain/Shift Journal: https://www.100behaviors.com/products/the-brain-shift-journal-volume-1 “Hidden Games: The Surprising Power of Game Theory to Explain Irrational Human Behavior” by Moshe Hoffman and Erez Yoeli: https://amzn.to/3WbYaxi The Prisoner’s Dilemma: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner%27s_dilemma Charles Darwin “The Descent of Man”: https://amzn.to/3XPFynI Episode 329, Why Do Good People Let Bad Things Happen? With Max Bazerman: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/why-do-good-people-let-bad-things-happen-with-max-bazerman/ Michael Thaler: https://www.michaelthaler.com/ Musical Links Grigory Sokolov “Rachmaninoff Piano Concerto No.2 in C minor“: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRX5uM9cEos&ab_channel=AnsonYeung Big L “Put It On”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWMjRMJ0dTI Joseph Haydn “Surprise (Symphony No. 94)”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tF5kr251BRs Paul Simon “50 Ways to Leave Your Lover”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABXtWqmArUU&ab_channel=PaulSimonVEVO

Exercising your courage muscle every day and pushing yourself outside of your comfort zone, can have remarkable effect on your mindset and really influence those around you. Pushing through the uncomfortable feeling of simply talking to a stranger, or bravely climbing a ladder to clean your gutters, can make you more prepared for the scary moments in life that you can’t control. For instance, you’ll be more likely to speak up at work when someone says something inappropriate. Our guest on this episode has transformed his own life by pushing himself out of his comfort zone everyday. And he is passionate about helping others spark this change in themselves. Scott Simon was a shy, quiet child who was once told by a music teacher that he should just mime the words in a school concert. Scott continued to feel invisible until a life-changing moment, years later, on a flight to Tel Aviv. He shares this heartwarming story of how he embraced a new way to live, in this very personal interview. Scott Simon is a happiness entrepreneur, founder of the Scare Your Soul courage movement, and the author of the book Scare Your Soul: 7 Powerful Principles to Harness Fear and Lead Your Most Courageous Life. We discuss how we can embrace fear rather than trying to overcome it, the ways to stay motivated when we encounter failure, and the proven benefits of meditation and daily gratitude. One of the big takeaways from this podcast with Scott is that scaring yourself doesn’t need to involve jumping out of a plane to overcome your fear of heights. In fact, Scott advocates for the much less dramatic, but more effective approach of consistency. Climbing a ladder to clean your gutters every day for a week is much more likely to help you overcome your fear of heights than launching yourself out of an airplane. Small, daily incremental steps outside of your comfort zone are what can have a ripple effect on your wellbeing. And when we improve our own wellbeing, those around us start to notice which, in turn, can have a positive effect on the world. As a starter, you could overcome you fear of writing a podcast review! Jump onto the platform where you listen to Behavioral Grooves Podcast, and write a quick summary of why you listen. Thank you! Topics (3:18) Welcome and speed round questions. (5:14) What does it mean to scare ourselves every day? (10:16) Scaring yourself with baby steps. (15:03) Confronting the feeling of being uncomfortable. (18:30) How practicing gratitude can transform your day. (21:00) How to stay motivated even when we face failure. (28:31) Why do people find meditation so hard? (33:41) Heroes are born in small, everyday moments. (37:43) How music was part of Scott writing his book. (40:24) The way Scott scared his soul with singing. (46:23) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim on scaring our soul. © 2022 Behavioral Grooves Links Limited time offer - 23% Discount for Brain/Shift Journal: https://www.100behaviors.com/products/the-brain-shift-journal-volume-1 Scott Simon’s book, “Scare Your Soul: 7 Powerful Principles to Harness Fear and Lead Your Most Courageous Life”: https://amzn.to/3VEI65Y Episode 303, From Distracted To Focused: Nir Eyal’s Secrets On How To Be Indistractable: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/nir-eyal-how-to-be-indistractable/ Episode 176, Annie Duke on How to Decide: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/annie-duke-on-how-to-decide/ Episode 247, Stanford Prison Experiment, 50 Years On: What Have We Really Learnt? With Dr Philip Zimbardo: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/stanford-prison-experiment/ Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves Musical Links 76 Trombones “Music Man”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBQWsBiM5YY

If you were sent an exclusive invite to a secret society, would you accept? If you knew only a few people in the world had been approached to join, would it spark a scarcity curiosity? What is more alluring: the society itself or the mere fact that it’s a secret? Creating hype is the forte of our returning guest on this episode, Michael F. Schein. In our previous chat with Michael back in episode 212, he was telling us about his book “The Hype Handbook: 12 Indispensable Success Secrets From the World’s Greatest Propagandists, Self-Promoters, Cult Leaders, Mischief Makers, and Boundary Breakers”. Since writing it, his marketing business has been inundated with clients wanting “in on” some hype! So as a unique way of creating hype, Michael has created a new secret society with only a few (secret) members. Kurt and Tim spend time discussing the allure of a secret club - why they have been successful in the past, what continues to make them enticing, and how businesses can potentially use them to create hype. There is something that you can be part of that is definitely not a secret - the Behavioral Grooves Patreon membership. It’s no secret that we rely on the support of our loyal listeners to support the podcast and we truly appreciate everyone who chips in, thank you. Topics (5:16) How hype changed Michael’s marketing consultancy career. (10:51) The details of Michael’s secret society. (17:30) Are secret groups a tactic businesses should use? (21:30) How marketing has evolved since the Alice Cooper Piccadilly Circus stunt. (23:53) How Michael gets to work with only his favorite companies. (32:02) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim. © 2022 Behavioral Grooves Links Michael F. Schein: https://michaelfschein.com/ Michael’s book “The Hype Handbook: 12 Indispensable Success Secrets From the World’s Greatest Propagandists, Self-Promoters, Cult Leaders, Mischief Makers, and Boundary Breakers”: https://amzn.to/3V5KVO9 Episode 212, Scrutinizing Hype: Powerful lessons from The Hype Handbook with Michael F. Schein: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/scrutinizing-hype-with-michael-f-schein/ Seven Society, University of Virginia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Society Jeff Walker “Launch: An Internet Millionaire's Secret Formula To Sell Almost Anything Online, Build A Business You Love, And Live The Life Of Your Dreams”: https://amzn.to/3V9Uv2m Episode 226, The Power of Unity: Robert Cialdini Expands His Best Selling Book Influence: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/cialdini-unity-in-influence/ The Lake Wobegon Effect: https://psychology.fandom.com/wiki/Lake_Wobegon_effect Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves Musical Links The Dickies “Banana Split”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_wkEnLBvlE

The web was intended to be a way of creating genuine connections with others, but we’re all sadly familiar with the detrimental ways it can be used to spread misinformation. A team of experts at Prosocial Design Network is now using evidence-based behavioral insights to redesign social media interactions, to bring out the best of us online. We’re honored to be joined on this episode by two of the designers of the Prosocial Design Network - John Fullot and Philipp Lorentz-Spreen. John Fallot is a user experience and graphic designer based in the New York City Metro Area. He co-founded the Prosocial Design Network with colleague Joel Putnam in late 2019, in order to better explore ways that the web could be optimized for prosocial behaviors. Dr. Philipp Lorenz-Spreen is a research scientist based in Berlin, Germany. His work focuses on decision making online, and finding ways to improve online democratic discourse through environmental interventions. There are certainly no silver bullets in the effort of minimizing the spread of misinformation. But this conversation gives us hope and provides some insights for everyone on how to approach social media in a better way. We encourage you to check out the work of the Prosocial Design Network and browse through the interventions they are currently testing: www.prosocialdesign.org. Topics (3:34) Welcome and speed round questions. (6:41) Can we inoculate ourselves from misinformation online? (8:38) Redesigning the world wide web against misinformation. (13:28) Is misinformation on social media really threatening democracy? (16:50) Asymmetry of power between the platform and the users. (24:15) John and Phillip’s favorite Prosocial Design intervention: frictionless designs and "thank you" buttons. (28:33) Which social media sites are being proactive with interventions? (30:47) What is the obligation of behavioral scientists? (37:11) What music do John and Phillip listen to? (42:11) Grooving Session with Kurt on Tim on the Prosocial Design Network. © 2022 Behavioral Grooves Links Prosocial Design Network: www.prosocialdesign.org Prosocial Design Network Slack: www.prosocialdesign.org/community Prosocial Design Network donations: www.prosocialdesign.org/donate Maxwell House commercial with Margaret Hamilton: https://youtu.be/tUnNDEygBjA\ Discord: https://discord.com/ Lorenz-Spreen, P., Lewandowsky, S., Sunstein, C.R. et al. How behavioural sciences can promote truth, autonomy and democratic discourse online. Nat Hum Behav (2020): https://doi.org/10.1038/s41562-020-0889-7 Lorenz-Spreen, P., Geers, M., Pachur, T. et al. Boosting people’s ability to detect microtargeted advertising. Sci Rep (2021): https://doi.org/10.1038/s41598-021-94796-z Episode 10, Kal Turnbull Reddit superstar, Changing the World One View at a Time: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/changing-the-world-one-view-at-a-time-with-reddit-superstar-kal-turnbull/ Nir Eyal “Hooked: How to Build Habit-Forming Products”: https://amzn.to/3XeWgMM Episode 303, From Distracted To Focused: Nir Eyal’s Secrets On How To Be Indistractable: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/nir-eyal-how-to-be-indistractable/ Behavioral Grooves Patreon Page: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves Musical Links John: Tears For Fears “Everybody Wants to Rule The World”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGCdLKXNF3w&ab_channel=TearsForFearsVEVO Kat Cunning “Could Be Good”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpFh4dnKPKs Phillip: Pashanim “Airwaves”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5wsXLmWhCM&ab_channel=PashanimNulldreinull

Would you help change a stranger’s tire? How about if they offered you $20? Or, what if instead of money, they offered you some candy? We often think these types of exchanges are financial in nature - but this study explored how there is actually a different type of exchange going on here - a social exchange. When we help a friend move some furniture, invite friends over for dinner, help a stranger out who is in need - these are social exchanges in a social market, one that is separate from the financial market. And what’s even more interesting is that if you bring money into the social exchange, it falls apart. James Heyman and Dan Ariely explored this phenomena in their landmark study called, “Effort for Payment: A Tale of Two Markets” and is the basis for Kurt and Tim taking a deep look in this Groove Track. Listen to find out the backstory to the study and the implications from the findings. You can also watch a special video recording of this Groove Track with Kurt and Tim on the Behavioral Grooves YouTube Channel. Links Heyman, J., & Ariely, D. (2004). Effort for Payment: A Tale of Two Markets. Psychological Science: https://doi.org/10.1111/j.0956-7976.2004.00757.x Behavioral Grooves on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkmH8St_nsA&ab_channel=BehavioralGrooves

We find it easy to condemn wrongdoers, after they’ve been called out. But why do we often let unethical behavior occur around us, and not speak out? If we take a step back from the idea of there being one “bad apple”, we realize that with any wrongdoing, there is a collection of people who have been complicit in the behavior. Why is there so much fear about speaking up? “We've created too much fear in speaking up, when in fact, there's so much value in avoiding harm in that process.“ ~ Max Bazerman Our fascinating conversation with Max Bazerman aligns with the publication of his excellent new book, “Complicit: How We Enable the Unethical and How to Stop”. Our discussion is rich with insight, in particular we delve into the reason that we hold people, including ourselves, more responsible for errors of commission than omission. So how can we avoid errors of omission? Max Bazerman is a world famous behavioral scientist. He is the Jesse Isidor Straus Professor of Business Administration at the Harvard Business School and the Co-Director of the Center for Public Leadership at the Harvard Kennedy School. He is the author, co-author, or co-editor of twenty books and over 200 research articles and chapters. His awards include an honorary doctorate from the University of London and both the Distinguished Educator Award and the Distinguished Scholar Award from the Academy of Management. Over the years, Max has brought focus to the areas of decision making and ethics. Having been on the show before, we were delighted to welcome Max back to Behavioral Grooves once again. We hope you enjoy this episode of Behavioral Grooves. If you do, please write a review or share with a friend on Apple Podcasts. Thanks, listeners! Topics (3:16) What does it mean to be complicit? (13:02) How errors of omission play an under-rated role in complicit behavior. (18:21) How to move away from the idea that there is one bad apple? (21:48) Unethical behavior goes unnoticed when it happens gradually. (23:14) Do we legitimize unethical behavior in our leaders? (25:51) Do employees need to be made to care about unethical behavior or do they need to demand ethical behavior from employees? (27:26) When complicitors are engaged in illegal behavior. (29:29) How can we hold people accountable for their bad behavior? (37:33) Max’s personal story of being complicit. (39:31) Are there new norms on data collection that can eliminate fraud? (42:23) Dolly Chugh’s question for Max. (46:11) How can we all become better people? (49:05) What music does Max enjoy? © 2022 Behavioral Grooves Links Max Bazerman’s book: “Complicit: How We Enable the Unethical and How to Stop”: https://amzn.to/3UKjfNJ Episode 196, Living Happier By Making the World Better with Max Bazerman: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/living-happier-by-making-the-world-better-with-max-bazerman/ Episode 325, Dolly Chugh: Can You Unlearn History And Still Love Your Country? With Dolly Chugh: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/dolly-chugh/ Bobo Doll Experiments: https://www.simplypsychology.org/bobo-doll.html Episode 247, Stanford Prison Experiment, 50 Years On: What Have We Really Learnt? With Dr Philip Zimbardo: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/stanford-prison-experiment/ Heroic Imagination Society: https://www.heroicimagination.org/ Musical Links Bob Dylan “Blowin’ in the wind”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMFj8uDubsE

How we think about the world can drastically influence how we navigate through it. Cutting edge research proves that reframing our mindset to be more positive, even in the light of negative events, can significantly alter how our brain responds. Discussing one of our favorite books of the year, author David Robson explains how our expectations can secretly meddle with almost every aspect of our lives. And by understanding their effects more thoroughly, we can unlock some powerful ways of living a more positive life. This is a special episode, not only because we are talking with David Robson about his fantastic book “The Expectation Effect: How Your Mindset Can Change Your World”, but we are co-hosting this episode with one of our favorite podcasters, Christian Hunt of Human Risk Podcast. And just to top it off, the interview is recorded in none other than the iconic Abbey Road Studios in London! Now that your expectations are set suitably high, we hope we don’t disappoint you with what we think is a fantastic episode of Behavioral Grooves! If Behavioral Grooves Podcast continues to meet your listening expectations please consider helping our ongoing production costs with a Patreon subscription. Many thanks! Topics (4:20) Welcome and speed round questions. (7:07) What is the expectation effect? (8:09) Why the placebo effect doesn’t work on everyone. (9:36) Our stress response and fluctuations in our cortisol levels. (13:13) Negative stress mindset vs. positive stress mindset. (15:00) Does the expectation effect change the way we feel? (18:16) Is reframing a key component of the expectation effect? (19:35) David’s journey into exploring expectations. (22:26) How our mindset can contribute to the outcome of our diet or exercise habit. (28:41) How marketing sets our expectations. (33:04) The brain is a prediction machine. (36:32) Why critical thinking is a tool to manage our expectations. (39:30) Are you a “good” sleeper or a “bad” sleeper? (42:35) Being a pessimistic vs an optimistic person. (45:45) The ethics of expectations - genetic testing. (50:06) What music David is listening to and our expectations of musicians. (55:47) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim discussing The Expectation Effect. © 2022 Behavioral Grooves Links David Robson: https://davidrobson.me/ David Robson’s Book, The Expectation Effect: How Your Mindset Can Change Your World: https://amzn.to/3DVOXSD Episode 307, Groove Track | Mind Over Milkshakes: Why Expectations Matter A Lot: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/mind-over-milkshakes-groove-track/ Nocebo Effect: https://www.mindtools.com/blog/expert-interview-blog-david-robson/ Human Risk Podcast with Christian Hunt: https://www.human-risk.com/podcast Pygmalion effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pygmalion_effect Penolepe Fitzgerald: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penelope_Fitzgerald Martin Amos: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Amis Episode 155, John Bargh: Dante, Coffee and the Unconscious Mind: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/john-bargh-unconscious-mind/ Episode 75: Jonathan Mann: Integrating Behavioral Science into User Experience: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/jonathan-mann-integrating-behavioral-science-into-user-experience/ Episode 235: Make Choice Rewarding: Behavioral Insights in Marketing with Matthew Willcox: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/marketing-matthew-willcox/ Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves Musical Links Judy Collins “Spellbound”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnTh7TkFK1U

Cheating is all around us. Is it on the rise? It appears to be so, but why? Christian Hunt, the founder and host of Human Risk Podcast, and Koen Smets, a London-based behavioral scientist, discuss the dodgy travails of the human condition using examples of cheating in chess, walleye fishing, cycling, and even among behavioral scientists. Join us for an invigorating discussion on why we cheat - and we all do - from Abbey Road Studios in London. Human Risk Podcast: https://www.human-risk.com/podcast Koen Smets on Medium: https://koenfucius.medium.com/ Fishing Scandal: https://youtu.be/xSta3wFK15Y Chess Scandal: https://www.npr.org/2022/10/05/1126915049/hans-niemann-is-accused-of-cheating-in-more-than-100-chess-games-hes-playing-tod Bike Race Scandal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanical_doping DataColada on Bad Behavioral Science: https://datacolada.org/98

Learning ALL the parts of our country’s history can be very uncomfortable. Not just in the US, but around the world, there are usually very dark parts of our past that many of us would rather brush over because it doesn’t marry up with the sterilized version of what we were taught when we were younger. While many of us are willing to take the next step, to unlearn our history and dismantle the unjust systems that our forebears built, few of us actually know how to go about it effectively. Our wonderful guest on this episode, Dolly Chugh admits to her own story of how she inadvertently taught her kids a polished version of history. And in her own personal reckoning around this experience, wrote the book that she found herself needing to read. And we are delighted to be talking with her about “A More Just Future: Psychological Tools for Reckoning with Our Past and Driving Social Change” because it is now a valuable tool for all of us. Dolly Chugh is a Harvard educated, award-winning social psychologist at the NYU Stern School of Business, where she is an expert researcher in the psychology of good people. We’ve previously had Dolly on the show but we are thrilled to welcome her back to discuss her brand new book. Topics (2:07) How Little House On The Prairie led Dolly to write A More Just Future. (9:24) Behavioral History - the new way of looking at the past? (11:10) Why do we find it so difficult to talk about the dark parts of our history? (14:08) How “dressing for the weather” can help us deal with our emotional responses. (17:56) What other countries can teach the US about our response to history.. (19:37) How a Paradox Mindset can help us sit with uncomfortable truths. (23:28) How does Dolly feel about America after writing the book? (26:12) How do we move forward to a more just future? (29:28) Unlearning our past is simple but not easy. (31:49) Why is George Takei a gritty patriot? (37:51) What is belief grief? (39:42) How psychological distance creates a “long time ago illusion”. (41:37) Using music to anchor us in time. (44:52) What question Dolly would ask Max Bazerman? (47:54) Grooving Session with Tim and Kurt discussing A More Just Future. If you are a regular listener to Behavioral Grooves, please consider donating to our work through Patreon. Writing a review of the podcast is also a great way to share your appreciation with other listeners. © 2022 Behavioral Grooves Links Dolly’s book “A More Just Future: Psychological Tools for Reckoning with Our Past and Driving Social Change “: https://amzn.to/3Cgs9eq Episode 230, How Good People Fight Bias with Dolly Chugh: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/how-good-people-fight-bias/ Dolly’s TED Talk: “How to let go of being a "good" person — and become a better person”: https://www.ted.com/talks/dolly_chugh_how_to_let_go_of_being_a_good_person_and_become_a_better_person?language=en Episode 280, Do We Judge Others By The Way They Speak? | Katherine Kinzler PhD: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/judging-by-the-way-others-speak/ Historiography: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historiography Dan Gilbert “Stumbling on Happiness”: https://amzn.to/3zdV4iD Episode 321, Robert Livingston: How To Have A Conversation About Racism: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/a-conversation-about-racism/ Angela Duckworth “Grit: The Power of Passion and Perseverance”: https://amzn.to/3suuRZh “Construal-Level Theory of Psychological Distance” Yaacov Trope and Nira Liberman (2011): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3152826/ Max Bazerman “Complicit: How We Enable the Unethical and How to Stop”: https://amzn.to/3TSE7lB Episode 232: Katy Milkman: How to Make Healthy Habits that Actually Last: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/katy-milkman-habits-that-last/ Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves Musical Links Bob Marley “Buffalo Soldier”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5FCdx7Dn0o Hamilton “Alexander Hamilton”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhinPd5RRJw In the Heights “No Me Diga”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrFH772ytzM Louis Armstrong “Hello Dolly”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7N2wssse14

People don’t hate change, they hate the ambiguity that comes with change. Organizational psychologist, Dr Debbie Sutherland PhD, shares the tools we can use, both in business settings and in our personal lives, to overcome our discomfort with ambiguity and to thrive in uncertain environments. Debbie is an academic executive coach with both a masters degree and doctorate degree from Columbia University. She has recently written a well researched book, The Business of Ambiguity: Demystify the Unknown with Five Key Thinking and Behavior Strategies, which gives business leaders a blueprint for making better decisions in ambiguous situations. After all, ambiguous and uncertain situations aren’t going away, so we might as well figure out how to deal with them! Thank you to all our listeners of Behavioral Grooves, we enjoy sharing unique insights with you. If you have enjoyed this episode, please consider writing a review on your podcast player. Or you can contribute financially to our work through our Patreon page. Topics (2:31) Welcome and speed round questions. (5:35) Why do people hate ambiguity? (9:40) How frustration led to Debbie’s research on ambiguity? (11:25) The value of critical reflection. (16:11) How journaling can help you find patterns in behavior. (21:09) Mental models of ambiguity. (23:02) Reflection IN action vs. reflection ON action. (25:44) The ambiguity of THE dress. (29:18) The Ambiguity Mindset – intuitive or learned? (30:26) Where do leaders make mistakes with managing ambiguity? (38:25) What music would Debbie take to a desert island? (43:04) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim on ambiguity. Links Debbie Sutherland’s book “The Business of Ambiguity: Demystify the Unknown with Five Key Thinking and Behavior Strategies”: https://amzn.to/3MFuh3W The Business of Ambiguity: https://www.behaviorsinbusiness.com/ Groups Relations Conferences: https://www.tc.columbia.edu/organization-and-leadership/social-organizational-psychology/degree-info/group-relations-conferences/ Gestalt Psychology: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gestalt_psychology Dr Pamela Booth research on Behavior Analysis: https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Behaviour-Analysis%3A-Catalyst-for-Perspective-and-of-Booth/d90d2da66a769d574e99a5dcf6f5ced41a689ee1 David Schon, The Reflective Practitioner: https://graysreadinggroup.wordpress.com/2012/12/18/the-reflective-practitioner-by-donald-schon/ Episode 178, Kwame Christian: On Compassionate Curiosity, Social Justice Conversations, and Cinnamon Toast Crunch: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/kwame-christian-on-compassionate-curiosity-social-justice-conversations-and-cinnamon-toast-crunch/ Episode 323, Quit: Why We Do It Too Late and How To Get Better At It with Annie Duke: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/quit-with-annie-duke/ Episode 322, Chuck Wisner: Four Steps To More Effective Conversations: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/more-effective-conversations/ Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves Musical Links Eminem “Fall”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfTbHITdhEI Vivaldi “Four Seasons”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRxofEmo3HA

Walking away is never easy. Whether it’s quitting a job, a relationship or an expedition to the peak of Mount Everest, we have a real problem with knowing when to stop. And ironically, when we do quit, we often wish we’d done it earlier. So why do we find it so difficult to quit? Annie Duke addresses the psychological reasons that prevent us from quitting, and how we can overcome them. Annie needs little introduction to the Behavioral Grooves Podcast as she is now the only guest to have been on the show 4 times! Most people know of her as a poker champion and bestselling author but we are lucky enough to call her a friend. One of the reasons we are so fond of Annie is her ability to use relatable stories to explain the complex concepts around decision making. She has emerged as one of the leading thinkers in the field, and is truly an intellectual powerhouse. So we are thrilled to be talking to Annie about her excellent new book, “Quit: The Power of Knowing When to Walk Away”. We don't like ambiguity. We don't like uncertainty. We keep chugging along, trying to accrue more certainty. So that we know that it's the right decision....As Richard Thaler, Nobel laureate said to me; “the only time that we were really willing to quit is when it's not a decision anymore.” ~ Annie Duke, Episode 323 In this episode, Annie touches on key themes around quitting. We talk about the reasons we find quitting so difficult, why mantras like “quit while you’re ahead” are complete bunkum, and what techniques we can use to ensure we quit at the right time. Annie also sets the record straight on the myth that grit and quitting are opposite sides of the same coin. The concepts actually overlap. We hope you enjoy this episode (and didn’t quit!). To help others find our podcast content, we would be grateful if you would write us a quick review on your podcast player. It helps us get noticed by other folk who are interested in podcasts about behavioral science. Thank you, and we appreciate your help. Topics (5:36) Annie’s story of quitting and her personal frustration. (12:39) Grit and quit are NOT polar opposites. (22:53) What are some of the psychological aspects that make quitting hard? (36:31) What is the difference between loss aversion and sure loss aversion? (42:29) Why we shouldn’t quit while we’re ahead. (49:10) Gut feel vs rational decisions. (53:29) What Mount Everest can teach us about when to quit. (1:03:36) The second way to help you quit – a quitting coach. (1:10:44) The backstory of Barry Staw. (1:20:40) Grooving Session with Tim and Kurt about quitting. © 2022 Behavioral Grooves Links Annie Duke’s Books: “Quit: The Power of Knowing When to Walk Away”: https://amzn.to/3z47JEP “Thinking in Bets: Making Smarter Decisions When You Don't Have All the Facts”: https://amzn.to/3Vvaick Angela Duckworth book, “Grit: The Power of Passion and Perseverance”: https://amzn.to/3ECSLsS Episode 107, Rory Sutherland: The Opposite of a Good Idea is a Good Idea: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/rory-sutherland-the-opposite-of-a-good-idea-is-a-good-idea/ Maya Shankar: A Slight Change Of Plans Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/a-slight-change-of-plans/id1561860622 Episode 310, Why You Can’t Find a Cab When It’s Raining – Groove Track: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/why-you-cant-find-cabs-in-the-rain/ Barry Staw: https://haas.berkeley.edu/faculty/staw-barry/ Episode 277, No Regrets? Really? Why Regrets Actually Bring Us Hope | Daniel H. Pink: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/why-regrets-bring-us-hope/ Episode 171, Self Control, Belonging, and Why Your Most Dedicated Employees Are the Ones To Watch Out For with Roy Baumeister: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/self-control-belonging-and-why-your-most-dedicated-employees-are-the-ones-to-watch-out-for-with-roy-baumeister/

Conversations are vital to our existence - after all, we talk with people every day. But have you ever dissected what makes a conversation effective? When we are more conscious of how we are talking with others, we can nurture more productive connections, and avoid common pitfalls that often derail our conversations. In this episode, we explore the importance of conscious conversations, with author Chuck Wisner, whose new book The Art Of Conscious Conversations: Transforming How We Talk, Listen, and Interact is coming out in mid October 2022. Chuck’s insights are built on a fascinating mix of careers: from architect to personal coach, with a stop-off as a mediator at the Harvard Law Mediation Program. With Chuck, we discuss the four sequential stages to an effective conversation: Storytelling Collaboration Creativity Commitment We explore the role our identity plays in shaping the stories we tell ourselves, why leaders’ authority can make their voice louder, and how some of our best ideas happen when we are stimulating our creative minds. “The stories we live by and tell ourselves and others are essential to our identity.” ~ Chuck Wisner If you enjoy listening to Behavioral Grooves Podcast, please consider donating to our work through our Patreon page. We use all the donations to fund the production of the podcast. Thanks! Topics (2:31) Welcome and speed round questions. (4:35) The stories we tell ourselves are central to our identity. (5:34) The Art of Conscious Conversation Book. (10:14) The first of the four types of conversations: storytelling. (18:56) Collaboration, the second step of successful conversations. (22:38) How re-engaging with our creative minds assists our conversations. (28:56) Why commitment is the active part of a conversation. (38:06) How music is part of Chuck’s life. © 2022 Behavioral Grooves Links The Art of Conscious Conversations: Transforming How We Talk, Listen, and Interact: https://amzn.to/3clNtGk Episode 178: Kwame Christian On Compassionate Curiosity, Social Justice Conversations, and Cinnamon Toast Crunch: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/kwame-christian-on-compassionate-curiosity-social-justice-conversations-and-cinnamon-toast-crunch/ Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves Musical Links Joe Morello “Take 5 Drum Solo”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tTyTc6FjjU Delbert McClinton “Ain’t That Lovin’ You”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCN2og2kKdk

Racism is solvable, but that doesn’t mean we will solve it. To close the gap between the probable and possible, we need to have meaningful conversations. “Conversation is one of the most powerful ways to build knowledge, awareness, and empathy and ultimately, impact change.” In his award winning book, “The Conversation: How Seeking and Speaking the Truth About Racism Can Radically Transform Individuals and Organizations”, Dr Robert Livingston PhD provides a compass and a roadmap for individuals and for organizational leaders to solve racism. As a leading Harvard social psychologist, he expertly combines his research and narrative for an audience who is eager to be part of the solution. Robert talks with us about the lightbulb moment he realized storytelling was a powerful way to engage an audience. By building relationships and using narratives, you can change people’s behavior in a way that facts and graphs simply don’t. Our conversation with Robert gives us the tools to firstly define racism and recognize its existence. We learn why motivated reasoning tries to protect us from the threat of addressing our own racism. But if we approach the painful conversations with a growth mindset, we can allow ourselves the grace to learn. © 2022 Behavioral Grooves Topics (3:13) Welcome and speed round questions. (4:23) Is racism a solvable problem? (6:19) Why conversation is so crucial to overcoming racism. (13:18) How The Press Model can help solve racism. (19:47) Why are people in denial about racism? (25:12) How to challenge the “I’m not a racist” relative? (28:48) How to have a conversation about racism, rather than a debate. (36:20) Why do we confuse equity and equality? (45:03) People are not as concerned about fairness as they are about winning. (47:52) What music would Robert take to a desert island? Links Robert Livingston's book “The Conversation: How Seeking and Speaking the Truth About Racism Can Radically Transform Individuals and Organizations”: https://amzn.to/3DdQZOc Episode 232, Katy Milkman: How to Make Healthy Habits that Actually Last: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/katy-milkman-habits-that-last/ “Whites See Racism as a Zero-Sum Game That They Are Now Losing” Michael Norton and Samuel Sommers (2011): https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1745691611406922 Carol Dweck “Mindset: The New Psychology of Success”: https://amzn.to/3SBhamm Amy Edmondson: https://www.hbs.edu/faculty/Pages/profile.aspx?facId=6451 Episode 178, Kwame Christian: On Compassionate Curiosity, Social Justice Conversations, and Cinnamon Toast Crunch: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/kwame-christian-on-compassionate-curiosity-social-justice-conversations-and-cinnamon-toast-crunch/ Episode 230, How Good People Fight Bias with Dolly Chugh: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/how-good-people-fight-bias/ Musical Links Stevie Wonder “Songs In The Key of Life”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiG9eiwUpHo Miles Davis “So What”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqNTltOGh5c

Close your eyes and visualize a horse. Most people can picture the outline of the body, the color of the horse and the unique features of the animal. But some people simply don’t see any image at all. This lack of a mind’s eye is known as aphantasia. To help explain exactly what aphantasia is, and how it can affect behavior, we talk with Professor Adam Zeman who actually helped identify and name the neurological condition. Adam has a medical degree and a PhD in philosophy from Oxford University. He’s been a lecturer and professor of cognitive and behavioral neurology and has published extensively on visual imagery and forms of amnesia occurring in epilepsy. Adam has also published an introduction to neurology for the general audiences called, A Portrait of the Brain. But the reason we are talking to Adam on this episode is about his research on our “minds eye”. He discusses how a lack of visual imagery (aphantasia) or overly vivid imagery (hyperphantasia) can be identified and what effects it has on our behavior. We often ask guests on the show about whether their work is influenced by “me-search”; something of particular interest to them personally. Well, this episode is a little bit of me-search for our own Kurt Nelson who himself has aphantasia. Join both Kurt and Tim as they both find out more about the recent research into the condition and how we should all be aware of how it affects people. Thank you to all our listeners of Behavioral Grooves, we enjoy sharing unique insights with you. If you have enjoyed this episode, please consider writing a review on your podcast player. Or you can contribute financially to our work through our Patreon page: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves. Topics (3:36) Welcome and speed round questions. (5:15) How Adam discovered the condition aphantasia. (10:30) How aphantasia can affect all the senses. (12:45) The prevalence of aphantasia. (15:38) The behavioral differences that are present with aphantasia. (19:42) What careers suit people with a lack of mind’s eye? (23:39) What causes aphantasia? (25:51) The differences between voluntary and involuntary visualization. (30:41) Visualization is an echo of vision. (35:21) What music Adam will take to a desert island. (37:51) About The Mind’s Eye Project. (42:49) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim. © 2022 Behavioral Grooves Links Aphantasia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aphantasia Vividness of Visual Imagery Questionnaire (VVIQ): https://aphantasia.com/vviq/ Professor Adam Zeman: https://psychology.exeter.ac.uk/staff/profile/index.php?web_id=adam_zeman The Mind’s Eye Project: https://www.gla.ac.uk/research/az/cspe/projects/the-eyes-mind/ “Picture This? Some Just Can’t” by Carl Zimmer, 2015: https://carlzimmer.com/picture-this-some-just-cant-101/ Prosopagnosia: https://www.ninds.nih.gov/health-information/disorders/prosopagnosia#:~:text=Prosopagnosia%20is%20a%20neurological%20disorder,face%20blindness%20or%20facial%20agnosia. Hyperphantasia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperphantasia#:~:text=Hyperphantasia%20is%20the%20condition%20of,as%20vivid%20as%20real%20seeing%22. Ed Catmull: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwin_Catmull Craig Venter: https://www.jcvi.org/about/j-craig-venter Blake Ross: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blake_Ross Think of a horse: https://aphantasia.com/think-of-a-horse/ Musical Links David Gray “Sail Away”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oyBnvibWEY Bach “Cello Suite No.1 in G Major”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1prweT95Mo0 Mendelssohn “Overture: The Hebrides”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdQyN7MYSN8

“The primary source of unconscious priming…is your conscious experience.” Our consciousness is where we bring everything together, where we integrate and form a rich integration of our experience. This result is that this experience gets spread out to all the processes of the mind which is pivotal to how priming, an unconscious effect, actually works. Dr John Bargh PhD is a researcher and professor at Yale University and is probably the leading researcher on behavioral priming and has been studying this topic for almost 40 years. Not only that but he is a long term friend of Behavioral Grooves Podcast. In this episode with John, we explore with him both the past and future of priming as well as some of the controversies surrounding it. “The more important the goal, the more primable it is” Topics (4:36) Welcome and speed round questions. (7:50) Why priming gets a bad rap. (13:01) What exactly is a prime? (16:17) Where does future research in priming need to go? (19:46) How does priming differ from expectation theory and the placebo effect? (22:33) How is framing not priming? (24:07) What is the summation of experience? (32:02) The stupid reason John went into social psychology. (40:51) What the meta analysis studies on priming have found. (45:50) Science communication: how to tell the good science from the bad. (49:03) The importance of podcasting to bridge the gap between science and people. (1:00:03) Grooving session with Tim and Kurt on priming. © 2022 Behavioral Grooves Links John Bargh's book “Before You Know It: The Unconscious Reasons We Do What We Do”: https://amzn.to/3yUHka8 Episode 248, Do We Control Situations or Do Situations Control Us? With John Bargh: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/control-situations-with-john-bargh/ Episode 155, John Bargh: Dante, Coffee and the Unconscious Mind: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/john-bargh-unconscious-mind/ Global Workspace Theory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_workspace_theory Bargh JA. “What have we been priming all these years? On the development, mechanisms, and ecology of nonconscious social behavior.” Eur J Soc Psychol. 2006: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19844598/ Shinobu Kitayama, University of Michigan: https://lsa.umich.edu/psych/people/faculty/kitayama.html Daphna Oyserman, University of Southern California: https://dornsife.usc.edu/daphna-oyserman Paul J. Reber, Northwestern University: https://www.reberlab.psych.northwestern.edu/people/paul/ Daniel Schacter, “Amnesia observed: Remembering and forgetting in a natural environment” (1983): https://psycnet.apa.org/record/1983-26025-001 Parafoveal Processing: https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/psychology/parafoveal-processing Jeffrey W. Sherman (2017) “A Final Word on Train Wrecks”: https://psychology.ucdavis.edu/people/sherm/cv Evan Weingarten, Qijia Chen, Maxwell McAdams, Jessica Yi, Justin Hepler, Dolores Albarracin (2016) “On Priming Action: Conclusions from a Meta-Analysis of the Behavioral Effects of Incidentally-Presented Words”: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27957520/ Xiao Chen, Gary P. Latham, Ronald F. Piccolo, Guy Itzchakov (2019) “An Enumerative Review and a Meta-Analysis of Primed Goal Effects on Organizational Behavior”: https://iaap-journals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/apps.12239 Roy F. Baumeister and Kathleen D. Vohs (2003): “Sobriety Epidemic Endangers Nation’s Well-Being”: https://www.psychologicalscience.org/observer/sobriety-epidemic-endangers-nations-well-being Episode 147, Gary Latham, PhD: Goal Setting, Prompts, Priming, and Skepticism: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/gary-latham-goal-setting-prompts/ Musical Links AC/DC “Hells Bells”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etAIpkdhU9Q Psychedelic Porn Crumpets “Acid Dent”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuQyIQ0NA0k Acid Dad “Searchin’”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzSwzUAqVWw The Orb “Blue Room”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ8nTbS9mOE Nirvana “Smells Like Teen Spirit”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTWKbfoikeg Pearl Jam “Black”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgaRVvAKoqQ The Who “Who You Are”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNbBDrceCy8 Led Zeppelin “All My Love”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXC87EABywo Dead Pirates “Alexis”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9FsgAyZop4 Hadestown Broadway Show “Way Down Hadestown”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJIc3RtJK7U

Rory Sutherland is a British advertising executive who became fascinated with behavioral science. Between his TED talks, books and articles, he has become one of the field’s greatest proponents. Rory is currently the Executive Creative Director of OgilvyOne, after gigs as vice-chairman of Ogilvy Group UK and co-founder of the Behavioural Sciences Practice, part of the Ogilvy & Mather group of companies. He is the author of The Spectator’s The Wiki Man column and his most recent book, which we highly recommend, is Alchemy: The Dark Art and Curious Science of Creating Magic in Brands, Business, and Life. Our discussion with Rory was original published in January 2020, but Rory’s evergreen insights continue to be popular with our listeners so we decided to republish this episode. You can also listen to Rory discuss his latest book Transport for Humans: Are We Nearly There Yet? alongside his co-writer Pete Dyson, in episode 290. We start this discussion with Rory by asking him about his book and some of his insights from it. His approach to advertising, marketing and product design is informed by his ability to look for the things that aren’t there. He once described a solution to improving customer satisfaction on the Chunnel Train between London and Paris by suggesting that a billion dollars would be better spent on supermodel hosts in the cars than on reducing ride time by 15 minutes. He’s a terrifically insightful thinker. Our conversation ran amok down all sorts of rabbit holes, as expected, including ergodicity, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle’s “The Silver Blaze,” high-end audio and the dietary habits of the world-famous runner, Usain Bolt. In Kurt and Tim’s Grooving Session, we discuss some of our favorite takeaways from Rory’s conversation including, “The Opposite of a Good Idea is a Good Idea” and others. And finally, Kurt teed up the Bonus Track with a final reflection and recap of the key points we discussed. As always, we would be grateful if you would write us a quick review. It helps us get noticed by other folks who are interested in podcasts about behavioral science. It will only take 27 seconds. Thank you, and we appreciate your help. © 2022 Behavioral Grooves Links Rory Sutherland: https://ogilvy.co.uk/people/rorys “Alchemy: The Dark Art and Curious Science of Creating Magic in Brands, Business, and Life”: https://amzn.to/3xbibt3 “Transport for Humans: Are We Nearly There Yet?”: https://amzn.to/3cZPyIy Episode 290, Transport Your Thinking; Why We Need To Reframe Travel | Rory Sutherland & Pete Dyson: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/transport-rory-sutherland-pete-dyson/ “Friction”: https://www.rogerdooley.com/books/friction/ Murray Gell-Mann, PhD: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murray_Gell-Mann Robin Williams “Scottish Golf”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jx8TzR1-n4Q Don Draper: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Draper Ergodicity: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergodicity John James Cowperthwaite: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_James_Cowperthwaite SatNav: https://www.macmillandictionary.com/us/dictionary/american/satnav Daniel Kahneman, PhD: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Kahneman What You See is All There Is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thinking,_Fast_and_Slow Arthur Conan-Doyle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Conan_Doyle Sherlock Holmes “Silver Blaze”: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Adventure_of_Silver_Blaze Tim Houlihan’s Blog on “Silver Blaze”: https://tinyurl.com/ufumkj6 Ben Franklin T-Test: https://tinyurl.com/wocdsdk Volkswagen Fighter: https://tinyurl.com/qpyqh87 David Ogilvy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Ogilvy_(businessman) Jock Elliot: https://www.theguardian.com/news/2005/dec/01/guardianobituaries.media Battle of Leyte Gulf: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Leyte_Gulf Croft Audio: http://www.croftacoustics.co.uk/main.html Mu-So single speaker: https://www.naimaudio.com/mu-so WFMT Chicago: https://www.wfmt.com/ TK Maxx: https://www.tkmaxx.com/uk/en/ Berlin Hotel with Big Lebowski: https://www.michelbergerhotel.com/en/ Shure: https://www.shure.com/en-US/products/microphones?lpf[top][types][]=microphones Zoom: https://zoom.us/ Satisficing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satisficing Usain Bolt: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usain_Bolt Sheena Iyengar, PhD: https://www.sheenaiyengar.com/ Jelly Jar Study: https://tinyurl.com/oo6g6eb Big Band Music: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_band Musical Links Aretha Franklin: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aretha_Franklin Southern California Community Choir: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_California_Community_Choir Abba: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABBA Felix Mendelssohn: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felix_Mendelssohn George Frideric Handel: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Frideric_Handel Johann Sebastian Bach: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Sebastian_Bach Johann Christian Bach: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Christian_Bach

Psychology and neuroscience have proven that our minds do things on autopilot. These shortcuts (or heuristics) are laden with unconscious biases, which are juxtaposed to our self identity as a “good” person; one that isn’t racist, sexist or homophobic. Dolly Chugh believes we should set a higher standard for ourselves by being good-ish people. By implementing a Growth Mindset, a concept pioneered by Carol Dweck, we don’t hang on too tightly to our identity. We learn to change, and to be taught and to grow. Dolly Chugh is an award-winning associate professor and social psychologist at the Stern School of Business at New York University. Her research focuses on the “psychology of good people”. How and why most of us, however well-intended, are still prone to race and gender bias, as well as what she calls “bounded ethicality.” Kurt and Tim sat down with Dolly for this episode in Spring 2021 to talk about the concept of “good-ish” which is a central theme to her book The Person You Mean to Be: How Good People Fight Bias. In subsequent episodes we have referenced Dolly's interview and work many times, so we wanted to republish her episode so you can enjoy listening to her insights again. In our conversation with Dolly we learn about her beautiful analogy of headwinds and tailwinds that describe the invisible biases and systemic issues that many people in our world face. She explains the “Hmmm Framework” that she came up with after the January 6th Attack on the Capitol. And, of course, we discuss music and how Dolly incorporates it into her teaching and her writing. In our focused Grooving Session, Tim and Kurt extract the meaningful ways that we can apply Dolly’s work into our everyday lives. We summarize the key parts of our interview with her and how we can each challenge ourselves to find our good-ish groove! What You Will Learn from Dolly Chugh (2:41) Speed round questions (4:12) What is the difference between good and good-ish? (9:09) Why is a growth mindset so difficult? (12:28) Why we should integrate psychology more into our educational and political systems (15:48) How systemic racism and unconscious bias are related (29:12) Hmmm Framework and thought experiments (34:04) How do we discover our own blind spots? (38:58) How Dolly incorporates music into her teaching and writing (43:21) Applications from our interview with Dolly in our Grooving Session: Step back and be intentional, use “when...then…” statements. Don’t hold on so tightly to our identity and the status quo. Thought experiments to unveil our own ignorance. The Harvard Implicit Association Test (IAT). Self audit - look at our library, our magazines, our TV shows, what we talk about with friends. How are we showing up in the world? Are we being intentional with where we put our effort? © 2022 Behavioral Grooves Links Dolly Chugh: http://www.dollychugh.com/about-dolly Dolly Chugh, The Person You Mean to Be: How Good People Fight Bias https://amzn.to/35tGwMe Carol Dweck, Mindset, The New Psychology of Success https://amzn.to/3wDv10I Episode 196: Living Happier By Making the World Better with Max Bazerman https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/living-happier-by-making-the-world-better-with-max-bazerman/ Mahzarin Banaji https://psychology.fas.harvard.edu/people/mahzarin-r-banaji Molly Kern https://www.molly-kern.com/ Happy Days https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee0gziqT2Yk&ab_channel=ChiefScheiderChiefScheider Grey’s Anatomy https://youtu.be/dSGLObjyFvA Steve Martin and Nuala Walsh, Episode 209: GAABS and Improving the Future for Every Applied Behavioral Scientist https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/improving-the-future-for-every-applied-behavioral-scientist/ Katy Milkman, How to Change https://amzn.to/3wDZHzc Confronting the legacy of housing discrimination https://www.cbs.com/shows/cbs_this_morning/video/vLnaRgBIed_ph_NxZa2ZaivfdC_FeD1f/white-americans-confront-legacy-of-housing-discrimination/ Harvard Implicit Association Test https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/ Alec Lacamoire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Lacamoire Lake Wobegon Effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Wobegon Episode 214: Observing the Non-Obvious: How to Spot Trends Around You with Rohit Bhargava https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/the-non-obvious-rohit-bhargava/ Musical Links Hamilton “Alexander Hamilton” https://youtu.be/VhinPd5RRJw In the Heights “Blackout” https://youtu.be/T0V2cCjf1Tk Something Rotten! “A Musical” https://youtu.be/1KFNcy9VjQI Bruno Mars “The Lazy Song” https://youtu.be/fLexgOxsZu0 38 Special “Hold On Loosely” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJtf7R_oVaw Buffalo Springfield “For What It’s Worth” https://youtu.be/80_39eAx3z8

For many years, the general consensus by many researchers and practitioners was that providing people with short-term extrinsic rewards sapped their long-term motivation. This led to some organizations reducing or not using short-term rewards at all. However, this perspective has always had some detractors and now even more research shows that this belief is misleading. In this episode, Kurt and Tim explore the research paper by Indranil Goswami and Oleg Urmisky with the lovely title of “The Dynamic Effect of Incentives on Post-Reward Task Engagement” that shows that while short-term incentives drive an immediate reduction in task engagement, this only lasts for a short time and that engagement rebounds to the baseline relatively quickly. We examine some of the backstory to this belief, what the study showed, and review the implications of this. Links The Dynamic Effect of Incentives on Post-Reward Task Engagement: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/312100138_The_dynamic_effect_of_incentives_on_postreward_task_engagement © 2022 Behavioral Grooves

The GodFather of Influence, Robert Cialdini joins us on Behavioral Grooves to share his motivation for expanding his bestselling book Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion which now includes a completely new Seventh Principle of Influence: Unity. This additional principle can help explain our political loyalties, vaccine hesitancy and why media headlines can be so inflammatory. Another motivation for the revised edition to the book is to include more application to the Principles of Influence. So our conversation highlights some of Bob’s advice for start-up businesses and how they can harness the principle of Social Proof. And as general advice, Bob recounts how he recently advised a teenager to be generous to others – this in turn stimulates the Rule of Reciprocity, nurturing a relationship which is mutually beneficial. No episode of Behavioral Grooves would be complete without discussing music, even with guests we’ve interviewed before! But the theme of unity has a special significance with music and Bob highlights how music and dance bring people together and help them feel unified. Plus we get an interesting story of an experiment in France, and how a guitar case played a crucial part in one man’s luck. We hope you enjoy our discussion with The Godfather of Influence, Robert Cialdini. Since we generously share our great content with you, perhaps you feel influenced by the Rule of Reciprocity and will become a Behavioral Grooves Patreon Member! [This episode was originally published in May 2021 and you can also listen to our first interview with Robert Cialdini in Episode 50]. © 2022 Behavioral Grooves Topics we Discuss on Influence with Robert Cialdini (3:55) Speed round (6:50) Ideal number of stars on your online review (9:00) Why Cialdini wrote a new edition of Influence (12:13) The new Seventh Principle: Unity (15:10) How to harness social proof as a start-up (20:02) A new color of lies (22:22) Principle of Unity with politics (24:42) Tribalism and vaccine hesitancy (28:35) Why Trump getting vaccinated hasn’t influenced his voters (30:50) How framing of media headlines influences our perception of the news (33:24) The Petrified Forest Wood Principle (36:56) Where will the next generation of research go with Cialdini’s work? (40:52) What advice would Cialdini give your teenager? (48:23) Music and influence (53:05) Grooving session Robert Cialdini’s Books Influence, New and Expanded: The Psychology of Persuasion https://amzn.to/3tyCpZ6 Pre-Suasion: A Revolutionary Way to Influence and Persuade https://amzn.to/3eGdyOW Links Episode 50: Robert Cialdini, PhD: Littering, Egoism and Aretha Franklin: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/robert-cialdini-phd-littering-egoism-and-aretha-franklin/ Increase Your Influence: https://www.influenceatwork.com/ Godfather 2 Movie: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Godfather_Part_II Richard Thaler: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Thaler Daniel Kahneman: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Kahneman Episode 222: How Delusions Can Actually Be Useful: Shankar Vedantam Reveals How: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/shankar-vedantam-useful-delusions/ Donald Trump vaccine: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackbrewster/2021/04/20/trump-i-dont-know-why-republicans-are-vaccine-hesitant-again-floats-pfizer-conspiracy-theory/ Mike Pence: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/pence-set-receive-covid-vaccine-televised-appearance-n1251655 Petrified Forest Wood Principle: https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/the-shaping-us/201909/the-petrified-wood-principle Stanley Schachter: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Schachter Jerome Singer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerome_E._Singer Episode 220: How Do You Become Influential? Jon Levy Reveals His Surprising Secrets: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/how-to-be-influential-jon-levy/ The psychology of misinformation: Why it’s so hard to correct: https://firstdraftnews.org/latest/the-psychology-of-misinformation-why-its-so-hard-to-correct/ How to combat fake news and misinformation: https://www.brookings.edu/research/how-to-combat-fake-news-and-disinformation/ Teaching skills to combat fake news and misinformation: https://www.washington.edu/trends/teaching-skills-to-combat-fake-news-and-misinformation/ Episode 102: Cristina Bicchieri: Social Norms are Bundles of Expectations: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/cristina-bicchieri-social-norms-are-bundles-of-expectations/ Episode 214: Observing the Non-Obvious: How to Spot Trends Around You with Rohit Bhargava: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/the-non-obvious-rohit-bhargava/ Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves

Priming studies have had some negative press over the past ten years - some of it justified, some of it not. In this groove track, Kurt and Tim examine a 2018 study done by Alexander Stajkovic, Kayla Sergent, Gary Latham, and Suzanne Peterson called “Prime and Performance: Can a CEO Motivate Employees Without Their Awareness?” This field study, with real-world implications, demonstrated that the choice of words had an impact on company performance. The impact was not just statistically significant, but it had real-world significance as well. The researchers replaced 12 words in a company President’s e-mail message to his employees. The impact that those 12 words had on performance was wild. Kurt and Tim examine how the study was set up, the type of priming used, how performance was measured, and explore some of the key findings. We try to peel back the reasons why the interventions worked as it did, and discuss both the positive implications of this study, as well as things we should be wary of. Listen now or find out more about this paper in our blog post. Enjoy!

Shankar Vedantam is the host of the wildly popular podcast, Hidden Brain and esteemed author of the book Useful Delusions: The Power and Paradox of the Self-Deceiving Brain. We initially interviewed Shankar in mid 2021 but want to highlight this discussion for you again as it is one we still discuss in more recent episodes. Before reading Shankar’s book and interviewing him for this podcast we were, as Shankar describes himself, card-carrying rationalists. We were firmly in the camp of believing rational, scientific findings and believing that lies and deception are harmful to ourselves and to our communities. However, Shankar walks us through a compelling argument, that paradoxically, self-deception actually plays a pivotal role in our happiness and well-being. In our discussion with Shankar we cover: (6:38) Speed round questions. (11:04) The difference between self delusions being useful and being harmful. (16:23) How nations are a delusional construct. (23:00) Awareness of self-delusions and how daily gratitudes can shift our perspective of the world. (25:56) Shankar’s personal story of delusional thinking. (29:58) The role emotions play in our mood and delusions. (35:23) How avoidance of delusional thinking is a sign of privilege. (37:30) Why our perceptions play an important role in understanding delusions. (44:36) Shankar’s unique approach to conspiracy theories. (52:28) What music Shankar has been listening to during COVID. (52:15) Grooving Session and Bonus Track with Kurt and Tim. We really hope you find Shankar’s unique insight on how delusions are useful as compelling as we did. If you’re a regular Behavioral Grooves listener, please consider supporting us through Patreon. Thank you! © 2022 Behavioral Grooves Books Useful Delusions: The Power and Paradox of the Self-Deceiving Brain https://amzn.to/2PUkzlv The Hidden Brain: How Our Unconscious Minds Elect Presidents, Control Markets, Wage Wars and Save Our Lives https://amzn.to/3e1qgWY Links Noise: A Flaw in Human Judgment by Kahneman, Sibony and Sunstein, 2021 https://amzn.to/3heyr5r Richard Dawkins https://richarddawkins.net/ Mahabharata https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahabharata Lake Wobegon Effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Wobegon Other Episodes We Talk About The Myth of the “Relationship Spark” with Logan Ury (featuring a guest appearance by Christina Gravert, PhD): https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/the-myth-of-the-relationship-spark-with-logan-ury-featuring-a-guest-appearance-by-christina-gravert-phd/ Robert Cialdini, PhD: Littering, Egoism and Aretha Franklin: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/robert-cialdini-phd-littering-egoism-and-aretha-franklin/ Self Control, Belonging, and Why Your Most Dedicated Employees Are the Ones To Watch Out For with Roy Baumeister: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/self-control-belonging-and-why-your-most-dedicated-employees-are-the-ones-to-watch-out-for-with-roy-baumeister/ George Loewenstein: On a Functional Theory of Boredom: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/george-loewenstein-on-a-functional-theory-of-boredom/ Gary Latham, PhD: Goal Setting, Prompts, Priming, and Skepticism: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/gary-latham-phd-goal-setting-prompts-priming-and-skepticism/ John Bargh: Dante, Coffee and the Unconscious Mind: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/john-bargh-dante-coffee-and-the-unconscious-mind/ Linda Thunstrom: Are Thoughts and Prayers Empty Gestures to Suffering Disaster Victims? https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/linda-thunstrom-are-thoughts-and-prayers-empty-gestures-to-suffering-disaster-victims/

Three things generate a sense of meaning IN life; Coherence - can you make sense of the world? Purpose - do you feel a sense of purpose with what you do? And Significance - does your life matter? Having meaning in your life is correlated with a sense of self certainty. Knowing who you are and having a sense of self, gives you structure and a stable way of seeing the world. But how do you answer the question “who am I?” Our guest, Dr Brian Lowery PhD says the answer isn’t as individualistic as we may have been led to believe. Not only do those around us; our friends, co-workers and parents contribute to who we are, Brian claims they actually create who we are. Putting it bluntly, there is no way of separating “you” from your relationships. We’ve waited a long time to talk to Brian, who is the Walter Kenneth Kilpatrick Professor of Organizational Behavior at the Stanford Graduate School of Business. He is a social psychologist by training, but Brian’s work is by no means traditional in that field. He studies how individuals perceive inequality, and his research explores individuals' experiences of inequality and fairness in a way that sheds light on intergroup conflict and the nature of social justice. Brian is also a fellow podcaster, hosting the show Know What You See which is definitely worth checking out. Listeners can become a Behavioral Grooves supporter by donating to our work through Patreon. Or please consider writing us a podcast review on your app. Thanks! Topics (5:21) Welcome to Brian Lowery and speed round questions. (7:34) The meaning IN life vs. the meaning OF life. (9:23) How meaning in life is linked to a sense of self certainty. (13:30) Context matters: those around us create who we are. (17:13) What are you referring to when you talk about you? (19:23) The responsibility we have when interacting with others. (21:27) Does authenticity assume a stability of self? (26:17) Our relationships define us while also limiting our freedom. (30:59) The myth of rugged individualism. (36:35) Do we really have freewill? (42:06) What Brian talks about on his podcast, Know What You See. (43:42) What role does music play in the identity of self? (51:43) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim discussing the meaning in life. © 2022 Behavioral Grooves Links Know What You See Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/know-what-you-see-with-brian-lowery/id1580636076 Monty Python’s The Meaning Of Life: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAwDWZoETk4&ab_channel=MontyPython Episode 67, George Loewenstein: On a Functional Theory of Boredom: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/george-loewenstein-on-a-functional-theory-of-boredom/ Episode 248, John Bargh: Do We Control Situations or Do Situations Control Us? https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/control-situations-with-john-bargh/ Kimberle Crenshaw: https://www.law.columbia.edu/faculty/kimberle-w-crenshaw Episode 307, Groove Track | Mind Over Milkshakes: Why Expectations Matter A Lot: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/mind-over-milkshakes-groove-track/ Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves Musical Links Killer Mike “Untitled”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNsAfGDkUtk

Incentives can improve motivation. But what actually happens when the incentive is removed? An influential body of research previously suggested that extrinsic rewards have a negative impact on intrinsic motivation. However, more recent studies show this not to be the case over the long term. Our guest, Dr Indranil Goswami PhD, talks us through the longer term effects of temporary incentives and the implications for motivating behavior change. Indranil is an Assistant Professor of Marketing at the University at Buffalo. The research that we focus on in this episode is the paper he co-wrote with Dr Oleg Urminsky PhD, called “The Dynamic Effect of Incentives on Post-Reward Task Engagement”. While there may be a dose of confirmation bias with this conversation, Kurt and Tim are excited to hear more about Indranil’s research which backs up what they have been telling companies for years: “Incentives are useful for improving people's behavior, engagement and performance.” Managers, academics and even parents have bought into the widely held belief that extrinsic motivators are not a useful tool for initiating behavior change. But Indranil’s work may help you reevaluate the tools you use to motivate those around you. Listen in and let us know if it encourages you to rethink your incentive program. Regular listeners to Behavioral Grooves may enjoy being part of our exclusive group of Patreon members by supporting our work. You can also write a review of our podcast on whatever platform you listen on, and we often read these out on the show. Thank you! Topics (2:49) Welcome and speed round questions. (4:00) Do extrinsic incentives always suppress intrinsic motivation? (9:41) Does post incentive disengagement actually happen? (16:59) The surprising effect of big incentives. (22:42) Real world experiences of incentives. (25:03) Can we design incentives that improve post reward performance? (31:40) What is more motivating - flat fee payment schemes or rate based payment scheme? (38:57) Does Indranil use music as motivation? (43:18) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim on rewards and motivation. © 2022 Behavioral Grooves Links Goswami I, Urminsky O (2017) The dynamic effect of incentives on postreward task engagement: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28054810/ Daniel Kahneman: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Kahneman Dan Ariely: https://danariely.com/ Eisenberger, R., & Cameron, J. (1996) Detrimental effects of reward: Reality or myth? https://doi.org/10.1037/0003-066X.51.11.1153 Dan Ariely, Uri Gneezy, George Loewenstein, Nina Mazar (2009) Large Stakes and Big Mistakes: https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1467-937X.2009.00534.x Episode 106, Jana Gallus: The Role of Precision in Incentives: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/jana-gallus-the-role-of-precision-in-incentives/ Goswami, Indranil and Urminsky, Oleg (2018). Don't Fear the Meter: How Longer Time Limits Yield Biased Preferences for Flat Fee Contracts: http://dx.doi.org/10.2139/ssrn.3448174 Episode 71, Alex Imas: Clawback Incentives and Tom Waits: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/alex-imas-clawback-incentives-and-tom-waits/ Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves Musical Links Ravi Shankar “The Spirit of India”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMk2eTqPLWk

Groove Track | Why can’t you find a cab in the rain? We take a deep dive exploring the 1997 study “LABOR SUPPLY OF NEW YORK CITY CAB DRIVERS: ONE DAY AT A TIME,” by Colin Camerer, Linda Babcock, George Loewenstein, and Richard Thaler. This paper shifts through piles of data to look at how NY city cab drivers behaved - and what they found was an economic anomaly - the cab drivers did not behave as classical economists predicted. The data showed that the drivers worked shorter hours on days when they earned faster (e.g., when it's raining) which goes against what economists would have predicted (i.e., that they maximize those opportunities). Kurt and Tim run through how the study came to be, what they measured, and the implications of the paper's findings. This is a quick and fun dive into one of behavioral science classic studies. Find out more about this paper in our blog post

Love connects us to things in a deep way. But when we say we love our car, or we love our favorite beach, or we love our children, the love we express for each of those things is very different. So can we really love things as much as we love people? Our guest is Dr. Aaron Ahuvia, the world’s leading expert on brand love, a topic he pioneered and has worked on since 1990. He is a Professor of Marketing at the University of Michigan Ann Arbor’s Ross School of Business. Among the many books and papers he has authored, our favorite is the paper titled “Dr. Seuss, Felicitator”. For those of you who are unfamiliar with the term “felicitator,” it is someone who brings happiness to others. With Aaron, we discuss the very interesting and important topic of loving the things in our lives, why we love them, and how that love can change over time. This is especially true with brands and products and sporting teams and neighborhoods. One of the big takeaways from our conversation with Aaron is just to let go of this notion that it might be bad to love something. If you love Behavioral Grooves, and it brings you a little happiness, please consider becoming one of our special Patreon members. Or you can tell us, and others, how much you love the show by leaving us a podcast review on whatever platform you use to listen. Thanks! Topics (4:45) Welcome and speed round questions. (7:09) Can you really love a thing like you love a person? (9:39) The difference between liking and loving. (13:13) Why do we love sports teams? (18:05) Why do we love something that can’t reciprocate? (20:18) Is there an evolutionary basis to our love of objects? (23:44) Do we love the things we use more often? (27:44) Loving the music vs. the equipment that plays the music. (34:29) The social aspect of the objects we buy. (36:46) How Aaron loves music. (42:46) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim on what we love. © 2022 Behavioral Grooves Links Aaron Ahuvia’s book “The Things We Love: How Our Passions Connect Us and Make Us Who We Are”: https://amzn.to/3IW0Jxj Broadbent, Sarah (2012) Brand love in sport: antecedents and consequences: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/305330187_Brand_love_in_sport_antecedents_and_consequences Seth Stephens-Davidowitz, Episode 306, “Trust Your Gut? Only If The Data Supports It”: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/trust-your-gut/ Rory Sutherland & Pete Dyson, Episode 290 “Transport Your Thinking; Why We Need To Reframe Travel”: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/transport-rory-sutherland-pete-dyson/ Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves. Musical Links Cory Wong “Power Station”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1loN5mhRkI Brian Eno “Desert Island Music”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rQBi692Dw8

Disembarking people from a plane, row by row during the height of COVID, but then cramming all the passengers into a bus to the terminal…where is the common sense in that? Best selling author Martin Lindstrom laments that we are drowning in bureaucracy and that technology is contributing to the death of common sense in society. Founder and chairman of Lindstrom Company, Martin Lindstrom is also the best selling author of seven New York Times best-selling books. We talk with Martin about his most recent book, “The Ministry Of Common Sense: How to Eliminate Bureaucratic Red Tape, Bad Excuses, and Corporate BS”. Our conversation covers a lot of ground in a short time, including how John F. Kennedy was a trendsetter for the way businessmen dress today, why Martin lives without a phone, as well as how to cultivate more human-to-human connections. And since no conversation on Behavioral Grooves would be complete without a chit-chat about music, we find out what artists Martin would choose to take with him to a desert island. If you are a regular listener to Behavioral Grooves, please consider donating to our work through Patreon. We really appreciate all our listeners' support, thanks. Topics (2:55) Welcome to Martin and speed round. (8:19) Is technology contributing to the death of common sense? (9:51) Separating private life and work life. (14:45) What is the Ministry of Common Sense about? (22:58) Compliance and being different. (27:07) What musical artists would Martin take to a desert island? (30:03) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim on common sense. © 2022 Behavioral Grooves Links Martin Lindstrom’s book: “The Ministry Of Common Sense: How to Eliminate Bureaucratic Red Tape, Bad Excuses, and Corporate BS”: https://amzn.to/3z0CJ7M Martin Lindstrom: https://www.martinlindstrom.com/ Whitney Johnson, Episode 285: “The Three Phases of Growth and Learning”: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/three-phases-of-growth/ Charlie Bell: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Bell_(businessman) Human Risk Podcast: https://www.human-risk.com/podcast Nir Eyal, Episode 303 “From Distracted To Focused: Nir Eyal’s Secrets On How To Be Indistractable”: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/nir-eyal-how-to-be-indistractable/ Vanessa Bohns, Episode 253 “Why You Don‘t Need to be Powerful to be Influential”: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/influence-vanessa-bohns/ Robert Cialdini, Episode 226 “The Power of Unity: Robert Cialdini Expands His Best Selling Book Influence”: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/cialdini-unity-in-influence/ Andrea Belk Olson, Episode 304 “Finding Out What Your Customers Want and Why It Matters”: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/what-your-customers-wants/ Behavioral Grooves Patreon page: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves Musical Links Tina Turner “Proud Mary”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTfYnRQgKgY&ab_channel=TinaTurner Phil Collins “A Groovy Kind of Love”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsC_SARyPzk&ab_channel=PhilCollins Mozart “Requiem”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi8vJ_lMxQI Vivaldi “Four Seasons”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRxofEmo3HA

When making big decisions, people often go with what feels right - who we marry, where we live, what career we pursue. We base these decisions on our gut instinct. But what if our gut is biased, misinformed or quite simply wrong? Economist, former Google scientist, New York Times bestselling author and friend of the show Seth Stephens-Davidowitz has mined through thousands of data sets to prove that we are, in fact, frequently making ill-informed decisions when we only trust our gut. And we are delighted to be talking to Seth again about his fantastic new book, Don't Trust Your Gut: Using Data to Get What You Really Want in Life. From the data, Seth has uncovered what activities make us most happy, which isn’t always the most comfortable activity. “If you're on the fence, between walking with friends, and lying on the couch watching Netflix…go on that walk…it's been proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt that that's the more likely path to happiness.” But surprisingly there is one aspect of life that data cannot give us answers on. Listen to Seth’s entertaining interview to find out when exactly we should and shouldn’t trust our gut. At Behavioral Grooves, the data tells us that our listeners are loving our recent episodes! Thank you to everyone who has recently left us a podcast review. We read each and every one of them! Some of our dedicated Behavioral Grooves, donate to our work through Patreon page. Please consider supporting our work in this way, many thanks. Topics (2:58) Welcome and speed round questions. (10:04) Should we really not trust our gut? (16:09) Relationships are as unpredictable as the weather forecast. (20:16) Big data doesn’t apply to everything. (22:51) Is skepticism underrated? (24:51) What is mappiness? (27:48) Does supporting a winning team make you more happy? (29:28) The #1 happy activity. (32:29) Mistaking a comfortable activity for an enjoyable activity. (37:28) What is dataism? (44:20) The data behind hustling. (46:54) Would Bob Dylan and Leonard Cohen make it today? (52:37) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim on trusting your gut. © 2022 Behavioral Grooves Links Seth’s book: “Don't Trust Your Gut: Using Data to Get What You Really Want in Life”: https://amzn.to/3yICKwT Episode 246, Seth Stephens-Davidowitz: Are You More Honest with Google or Your Friends? https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/are-you-more-honest-with-google/ Alexander Todorov, “Face Value: The Irresistible Influence of First Impressions”: https://amzn.to/3Pi59kp Episode 211, AJ Jacobs: A Thousand Thanks: A Lifetime of Experiments and Gratitude: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/a-thousand-thanks-with-aj-jacobs/ Seth’s previous book: “Everybody Lies: Big Data, New Data, and What the Internet Can Tell Us About Who We Really Are”: https://amzn.to/32ULlgD Episode 222, Shankar Vedantam “How Delusions Can Actually Be Useful: Shankar Vedantam Reveals How“: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/shankar-vedantam-useful-delusions/ Mappiness: http://www.mappiness.org.uk/ Krishnamurti T, Loewenstein G. The partner-specific sexual liking and sexual wanting scale: psychometric properties. Arch Sex Behav. 2012 Apr;41(2): https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21720917/ Episode 287, Nick Epley, Why Talking To Strangers Is Actually Good For Your Wellbeing: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/talking-to-strangers/ Episode 274: Paul Bloom, Why Finding Pleasure in Life is a Painful Journey: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/pleasure-is-a-painful-journey/ Episode 205: Logan Ury, The Myth of the “Relationship Spark”: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/relationship-spark-logan-ury/ 1000 True Fans, Kevin Kelly: https://kk.org/thetechnium/1000-true-fans/ Musical Links Rick Springfield “Jesse’s Girl”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYkbTyHXwbs Bruce Springsteen “Glory Days’: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WccS8iFXgFI Bob Dylan “The Times Are A-Changin’”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90WD_ats6eE 23refvc Leonard Cohen “Hallelujah”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrLk4vdY28Q Metallica “Nothing Else Matters”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAGnKpE4NCI Luther Ingram "(If Loving You Is Wrong) I Don't Want to Be Right": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvJj7SN9EWI

Over the last 50 years, little has changed for the pharmaceutical management of mental illness. This is troublesome, but not unsolvable, according to The New York Times writer and author, Daniel Bergner. We talked with him about his most recent book, The Mind and the Moon: My Brother’s Story, the Science of Our Brains, and the Search for Our Psyches, and some of the key themes he discovered along his personal journey with a mentally challenged family member and other people he came to know well. We discussed the shortcomings of our current mental healthcare systems and processes, the benefits of non-traditional mental health therapies, the ancient myth about the Turkey Prince, and how we might be able to get immediate relief by reframing the conversation about pain management and pain suppression. The book features stories about his brother and a few other people that are told in remarkable detail over a long period of time. The gripping and beautifully-told narrative will open your eyes to some of the challenges that mental illness brings to life. Our conversation with Daniel explored these stories and areas of mental health that are too often overlooked - and we are grateful we get to share that conversation with you. If you are a regular listener to Behavioral Grooves, please consider contributing to our work through Patreon. Writing a podcast review or giving us a quick rating also helps others find our show. Weird, isn’t it? But, yeah, it’s true. We would appreciate any help you can offer. Most importantly, if you or someone you know needs help, please seek help. The Mental Health Guide is a global resource with phone numbers and websites in dozens of countries: https://www.helpguide.org/find-help.htm. Topics (2:45) Welcome and speed round. (5:23) What the book The Mind and The Moon is about. (7:18) Progress in mental health treatment and with society in the last 50 years. (10:00) The 3 stories that illustrate mental health in the book. (15:50) The effect of psilocybin. (18:15) What a turkey under a table can teach us about managing mental illness. (21:09) What are the next steps in mental health? (22:51) Daniel’s personal journey. (26:23) Writing the book in the context of the Trump election and George Floyd. (29:15) This is not an anti-pharmaceutical book. (35:18) Was it deliberate that music was a big part of the book? (41:42) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim discussing mental health. © 2022 Behavioral Grooves Links Mental Health Guide with global phone numbers and websites: https://www.helpguide.org/find-help.htm Daniel Bergner’s book, “The Mind and The Moon: My Brother's Story, the Science of Our Brains, and the Search for Our Psyches”: https://amzn.to/3aka5pU Psilocybin: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybin Steven Hyman: shorturl.at/lty19 Episode 274, Paul Bloom, “Why Finding Pleasure in Life is a Painful Journey”: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/pleasure-is-a-painful-journey/ Episode 255, Daniel Almeida “The 5 Healthy Brain Habits Of A Neuroscientist”: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/healthy-brain-habits-neuroscience/ Behavioral Grooves Patreon page: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves Musical Links Stanley Brothers “The Darkest Hour Is Just Before Dawn”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmiYKpVNOVg Marty Robbins “Red River Valley”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezJkRDQmL2Y Simon & Garfunkel “The Sound of Silence”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAEppFUWLfc Wolfgang Mozart “Symphony No. 36 in C Major, K. 425 ‘Linz’ - I. Adagio - Allegro spiritoso”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMloPIwd_FM Antonio Vivaldi “Four Seasons - Spring”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LAPFM3dgag

Customer feedback lacks two fundamental pieces of information: context and behavior. Traditional methods of insight, like the Net Promoter Score (NPS) and customer feedback surveys have their limitations. Andrea Belk Olson, our guest on this episode, challenges organizations to adopt a different approach to customer behavior by delving into the WHY and the WHAT, then coming up with a WOW hypothesis - a 3 step process called the 3W Ideation. Author of the new book, “What to Ask: How to Learn What Customers Need but Don't Tell You”: https://amzn.to/3yvooRF, Andrea Belk Olson is the CEO of applied behavioral science consulting firm Pragmadik, and head of the University of Iowa JPEC startup incubator. She delivers a unique, cognitive method for discovering hidden customer needs, converting them quickly into differentiators, and avoiding the pitfalls of traditional research. By using behavioral insights in organizations, Andrea believes that companies can become more customer focused. And when everyone in an organization is customer focused, the whole strategic vision of the company realigns. If you enjoy listening to Behavioral Grooves Podcast, please consider donating to our work through our Patreon page: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves. We use all the donations to fund the production of the podcast. Thanks! Topics (3:11) Welcome and speed round questions. (7:14) How can marketers understand customers' needs? (13:01) How to remove the disconnect between marketing and sales. (16:42) The steps marketing can take to get closer to the customer. (19:23) How behavioral science can help with adapting to change. (26:07) The 3 W Ideation process: Why, What & WOW. (30:04) The shortcomings of the Net Promoter Scores (NPS). (32:44) What role does culture play? (37:31) What Beethoven can teach us about behavior change. (42:28) What music would Andrea take to a desert island? (45:37) Grooving session with Kurt and Tim on What To Ask. © 2022 Behavioral Grooves Links Andrea Belk Olson’s book: “What to Ask: How to Learn What Customers Need but Don't Tell You”: https://amzn.to/3yvooRF Episode 289, Why Not All Nudges Work ”In The Wild” with Nina Mazar PhD & Dilip Soman PhD: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/why-not-all-nudges-work-in-the-wild-nina-mazar-dilip-soman/ Musical Links Queen “I Want To Break Free”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3w5gVM_4y8 Led Zeppelin “Whole Lotta Love”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQmmM_qwG4k