Typology

Not only is the Enneagram a great tool for gaining self-knowledge, but it is also a gateway for building strong relationships. When you understand that your way of seeing the world is not the only way to see the world, it creates room for compassion and appreciation toward others. The Enneagram teaches us how to communicate, and in turn, strengthens our relationships with family, friends, and co-workers. This week I invited husband and wife, David Dark (Enneagram 9) and Sarah Masen (Enneagram 6) to join me in a conversation about how the Enneagram has helped them identify the similarities and differences in their personalities and how that knowledge has shaped their marriage. With Enneagram Nines "optimistic to the point of denial" and Enneagram Sixes "realistic to the point of oblivion," Dark and Masen demonstrate how they try to live in a balanced way that fosters a supportive and secure relationship where they both feel valued. ABOUT DAVID: David Dark is the author of Life's Too Short To Pretend You're Not Religious, The Sacredness of Questioning Everything, Everyday Apocalypse: The Sacred Revealed in Radiohead, The Simpsons, and Other Pop Culture Icons and The Gospel According To America: A Meditation on a God-blessed, Christ-haunted Idea. His work has appeared in MTV News, Books & Culture, Pitchfork, and the Oxford American. Following years of teaching high school English, he received his doctorate in 2011 and now teaches at the Tennessee Prison for Women and Belmont University where he is assistant professor of Religion and the Arts in the College of Theology. ABOUT SARAH: Sarah Masen is an American singer-songwriter originally from the suburbs of Detroit, Michigan. For several years she has lived in Nashville, TN with her husband, author David Dark, and their three children. Originally signed to Charlie Peacock's "re:think" label, and subsequently to Word Records, she is now independent. Sarah's music has been described as pop alternative and is written from a background featuring influences as varied as Rich Mullins, Keith Green, 10,000 Maniacs, Over The Rhine, Victoria Williams and Julie Miller. Sarah's live performance has elements of the innocent approach of the last two artists, although most of her music comes from more of an intellectual background, discussing life, relationships and faith, in stark contrast with the angst-driven, dark and cynical approach you can find in a lot of the alternative music today.

Whether there's a three in your life or you are a three yourself, you're probably aware that threes are not naturally self-reflective. They tend to be externally focused rather than internally focused. The big message that threes receive growing up is that it's not okay to have your own feelings and identity, so they expend a lot of energy creating, projecting and maintaining a false image in order to be admired and accepted. Projecting this false image makes it very challenging for three's to answer the question, "Who am I behind the mask?" Let's face it, self-acceptance is difficult for all of us, but it is particularly difficult, for twos, threes and fours in the feeling space. So, I think a very important part of the journey for threes is reclaiming and integrating that splintered child that got thrown into the shadow large pieces of him that need to be owned again. This week, author/writer Jonathan Merritt joins me in a discussion about processing the pain behind the mask and pushing past the lies we tell ourselves in order to move closer to self-acceptance. A contributing writer for The Atlantic and a contributing editor for The Week, Jonathan Merritt is one of America's most prolific and trusted faith and culture writers. He has published more than 3,000 articles in outlets such as the New York Times, USA Today, National Journal, Christianity Today, Washington Post, and CNN.com and is the author of numerous critically acclaimed books including Jesus is Better Than You Imagined. Jonathan holds graduate degrees from Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary and Emory University's Candler School of Theology. He resides in Brooklyn, NY.

Eights are motivated by a powerful need to be strong and, when unhealthy, can have a hard time lowering their guard in fear of appearing weak or vulnerable. Healthy Eights understand that there is strength and power in vulnerability. Yes, it takes courage to risk vulnerability. But if Eights want to love and be loved they will have to risk opening their heart and revealing their innermost feelings to a trusted few. Today, Ian welcomes young adults pastor, Chris Cruz, into a conversation about letting go of the pressure to be strong, choosing mercy over vengeance, and embracing the awkwardness of being vulnerable. About Chris Cruz: Chris Cruz is a husband, father, pastor, speaker and blogger. He serves on the leadership teams at Bethel School of Supernatural Ministry and Tribe Young Adults at Bethel Redding. His role includes preaching, mentoring interns and pastoring students. Chris loves to see the church be a cultural influence for positive change in the world, and he lives to see heaven and earth become one. In his free time, Chris and his wife, Lana, love exploring and experiencing different cultures and cities. Chris is an avid creative, pursuing outlets that vary from graphic design to handmade leather goods. He also has a love for craft coffee and a slight fascination with raw denim. Chris Cruz is the Young Adults Pastor at Bethel. He's a passionate person, all the way from coffee to life with God. Chris loves teaching leaders and churches the way of Jesus and how it's leads to heaven overlapping with earth. He worked as a Pastor for seven years at Bethel School of Supernatural Ministry. Chris and his wife Lana live in Redding, CA with their son Solomon and daughter Pearl.

Last week, StoryBrand's Don Miller joined Ian to discuss the importance of directing your own story. Tune in today as the conversation turns toward understanding how each Enneagram type tends to lead and how that can impact the broader culture of a workplace. About Don Miller: Donald Miller is the CEO of StoryBrand, and every year he helps more than 3,000 business leaders clarify their brand message. He is the author of New York Times best-sellers: Blue Like Jazz, Scary Close, and A Million Miles in a Thousand Years, and the #1 Wall Street Journal best-seller, Building a StoryBrand. Don is considered one of the world's leading experts on the subject of story. His audiences are challenged to lean into their own story, creatively develop and execute the story of their team, and understand the story of their customers so they can serve them with passion. Don's thoughts on story have deeply influenced leaders and teams for Pantene, Chick-fil-A, Steelcase, Intel, Prime Lending, Zaxby's, and thousands more. Don lives in Nashville, Tennessee, with his wife, Betsy, and their chocolate lab, Lucy. For more about Donald Miller, check out his website at www.storybrand.com.

The Enneagram is not just meant to help people understand themselves and then do nothing about it. Rather it is a tool for fostering deep, inner work. In order to make lasting changes in your life, you need to know the story and themes that run beneath the surface. The Enneagram reveals what story you are programmed with and how a self-limiting narrative drives a lot of thoughts, actions, and behaviors. In today's episode, Don Miller and Ian Cron talk about the importance of directing your own story and ask "What story do you want to live? and "What story are you actually living?" About Don Miller Donald Miller is the CEO of StoryBrand, and every year he helps more than 3,000 business leaders clarify their brand message. He is the author of New York Times best-sellers: Blue Like Jazz, Scary Close, and A Million Miles in a Thousand Years, and the #1 Wall Street Journal best-seller, Building a StoryBrand. Don is considered one of the world's leading experts on the subject of story. His audiences are challenged to lean into their own story, creatively develop and execute the story of their team, and understand the story of their customers so they can serve them with passion. Don's thoughts on story have deeply influenced leaders and teams for Pantene, Chick-fil-A, Steelcase, Intel, Prime Lending, Zaxby's, and thousands more. Don lives in Nashville, Tennessee, with his wife, Betsy, and their chocolate lab, Lucy.

One of the gifts of the Enneagram -- the wisdom that we can gain from it -- is self-knowledge. No matter your Enneagram type, self-knowledge can help you dis-identify with those aspects of your personality that put you in an unhealthy place of habitual reactivity. And once you start to observe those unhealthy aspects, and dive into your work, you'll no longer be ruled by your personality. Our guest this week, John Mark McMillan, is a brilliant singer-songwriter, artist. He's a platinum-selling songwriter, and as an Enneagram Four, he joins Ian to discuss his deep connection to his feelings, touches on the Four's defense mechanism of introjection, and shares a checklist of ways he counteracts when he's feeling down. About John Mark McMillan John Mark McMillan is something of an anomaly: an artist and Platinum-selling songwriter bending genres and defying categorization by carving out his own unique and independent path. With an ear for melody and a poet's eye for metaphor, no topic has been off-limits. While each of his albums over the past decade have continued to explore new territory, it's McMillan's ability to give lyric and language to the human experience that many consider his greatest gift. McMillan, who has made a career of rejecting easy categorization and challenging expectations, co-founded the independent record label Lionhawk Records with his manager Josh Lujan Loveless in 2015. Mercury & Lightning was the third release from the label followed up in 2018 with The Mercury Sessions and The Lightning Sessions - alternative takes of the records with special guests including Joy Williams and Josh Garrels. McMillan recently remastered and re-released his beloved album The Medicine (10th Anniversary Deluxe Edition) available digitally and vinyl. His first-ever Christmas record Smile In The Mystery comes out Nov. 23.

Enneagram Threes, or The Achievers, see a world in which people only value others for what they can do versus for who they are. They tend to be driven, task-oriented, visionaries, goal crushers who want to avoid failure at all costs. Threes are very concerned with what other people think of them and are able to look in anybody's eyes and respond instinctively to whether or not they're being approved or disapproved of in the moment, and then tweaking or projecting a specific image to make sure they stay in approval. But sometimes Threes have a hard time settling in on their type because the underlying motivation doesn't seem to fit quite right. We've talked about subtypes and how they can make a type look and act in three different ways. But, another way we learn about people in their types is through, what are called, Hornevian groups, based on the work of Karen Horney, or stances. What they indicate for us is the social style of each type, or the direction we move in, in relationship to people. There are three styles: the assertive stance, the withdrawing stance, and the earning stance. In today's episode, Miles Adcox joins Ian to talk about each stance and how knowing your stance can help you find your type. Miles Adcox is an entrepreneur, speaker, host, and coach. He is the Owner and CEO of Onsite, an internationally-known emotional wellness lifestyle brand that delivers life-changing personal growth workshops, inspiring content, leadership retreats, and emotional treatment. He and Onsite have been featured on 20/20, Good Morning America, New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Dr. Phil Show, and The Doctors. He is the founder and co-host of The Unspoken Podcast, the owner of Onsite Music Publishing and founder of Inspire Productions. Miles has created and managed multiple mental health programs, personal growth workshops, and speaks nationally on mental health, emotional wellness and leadership. Miles has been a featured speaker and facilitator at various international events including Random House; O-The Oprah Magazine's Rising Strong Day with Dr. Brené Brown and TEDx. He has consulted major brands on organizational health and emotional wellness and is a communication, personal growth, and mental health consultant to the entertainment industry. He works with and consults several NGO's and serves on the board of The Onsite Foundation, C4, Dream 514, and is an advisory board member for Musicians on Call. Miles has currently been selected to take part in the Leadership Music class of 2019.

Sevens have a core belief that in order for them to be secure, loved and valued they have to bring the energy and excitement into every situation. There's this expectation and pressure to be on all the time. And though they are generally wired with a great deal of energy, so it does come easily to them, Sevens have a lot more to offer than just their energy and humor. The struggle for a Seven comes when they get trapped in the role of "entertainer" and distract themselves with exciting situations or experiences in an attempt to avoid having hard conversations, painful feelings, and loneliness. The path to transformation for a Seven is to learn how to manifest their joy from a place of abundance, rather than emptiness. Once Sevens learn to notice when they feel the need to escape from the events of life, they can teach themselves to pause and just sit in a feeling without feeling stuck. This week on Typology, Annie F. Downs, discusses how she stopped running from pain and is learning to share more of her true self through her own path to transformation.

For those of you who are new to the Enneagram and listening, Eights are called the Challengers. Sometimes they're called the Boss. Eights are typically people who are real forces of nature in the world. They live larger than life. The deadly sin or passion of Eights is lust. That doesn't necessarily mean in the sexual sense of the word, although Eights do have a hunger for excess in every area of life. For those of you who don't know, it's a lust for intensity. They just want immediate engagement with other people. They walk in a room and think where's the engagement, where's the juice? They go right to where the energy is and want to either challenge it or engage it or just feed on it. This intensity is easy to spot in an Eight's concern with justice. Eights are very concerned with standing up for the underdog. They love to defend the defenseless, to be the voice of the voiceless. It gives them great satisfaction to stand in the line of fire for people who are vulnerable. And you'll hear that in my conversation with today's guest, Scott Harrison. If you haven't heard of Scott yet, he spent almost 10 years as a successful nightclub promoter in New York City before leaving to volunteer on a hospital ship off the coast of Liberia, West Africa as a volunteer photojournalist. Returning home to New York City two years later, he founded the non-profit organization charity: water in 2006. Turning his full attention to the global water crisis and the world's 663 million people without clean water to drink, he created public installations and innovative online fundraising platforms to spread international awareness of the issue. In eleven years, with the help of more than over 1 million donors worldwide, charity: water has raised more than $300 million and funded over 28,000 water projects in 26 countries. When completed, those projects will provide over 8.2 million people with clean, safe drinking water. Scott has recently been recognized in Fortune Magazine's 40 under 40 list, the Forbes Magazine Impact 30 list and was recently #10 in Fast Company's 100 Most Creative People in Business issue. He is currently a World Economic Forum Young Global Leader. His new book, Thirst: A Story of Redemption, Compassion, and a Mission to Bring Clean Water to the World (published on October 2, 2018), recounts the twists and turns that built charity: water into one of the most trusted and admired nonprofits in the world. For more information on Scott, visit www.charitywater.org.

What's your best friend's number? Understanding the Enneagram can profoundly impact how you relate to others and help you build strong friendships. Knowing your friends' number allows you to understand each other's tendencies and creates space for conversation and compassion. Today on Typology, listen as Michael Gungor and Mike McHargue, co-hosts of the wildly popular podcast, The Liturgists, demonstrate the role the Enneagram has played in their friendship. Michael Gungor is one half of Gungor, and is a co-host of The Liturgists Podcast. Michael is a Grammy-nominated musician and composer who lives in Los Angeles, California. He leads the musical collective Gungor with his wife Lisa Gungor and is a co-founder of The Liturgists with Mike McHargue ('Science Mike'). Mike McHargue (better known as Science Mike) is an author, podcaster, and speaker who travels the world helping people understand the science of life's most profound and mundane experiences. His bestselling debut book, Finding God in the Waves, has helped thousands understand faith in the 21st century. Mike's the host of Ask Science Mike, and co-hosts The Liturgists Podcast with his friend Michael Gungor. He's recently appeared before sold-out audiences in New York, Chicago, and London, and is a frequent contributor to RELEVANT magazine, Storyline, BioLogos, and The Washington Post. Mike lives in Los Angles, CA with his wife, Jenny, and two daughters.

In last week's episode, Mark Scandrette shared some simple steps to help you begin using the Enneagram to move from unconscious to conscious living. In part two, Mark and Ian continue their conversation by discussing the importance of doing work within a community and asking the right questions. Mark Scandrette has written five books on practical spirituality that seek to apply spiritual wisdom to everyday life: FREE, Practicing The Way of Jesus, Soul Graffiti, Belonging and Becoming (Co-authored with Lisa Scandrette) and The Ninefold Path Notebook (with Danielle Welch). He regularly teaches and offers workshops and training events based on themes from these books. Before each book is published he usually spends several years piloting the concepts and processes explored with groups in multiple contexts. He is currently working on his 6th book on self-awareness, personality and transformation. He also speaks nationally and internationally at universities, conferences and churches and offers training to leaders and organizations through workshops, retreats and group intensives. Mark teaches a doctoral course on spiritual formation at Fuller Theological seminary and has taught courses at Pittsburgh Theological Seminary and Church Divinity School of the Pacific. Wherever Mark travels he speaks with the goal of awakening imagination and inviting audiences to take new steps into life and wholeness. For more about Mark, visit www.markscandrette.com.

Every day listeners email asking, "I know my type, now what?" Well, the truth is that simply knowing your Enneagram type doesn't change anything in and of itself other than to arm you with a little bit of self-knowledge. Understanding where you go in points of stress and where you go in growth helps explain a lot about why each of us has particular struggles. But to really begin to heal and experience true transformation, we have to be willing to face our shadows because that's where the distortions of our reality live and multiply. It's tough to start doing the work but we're simply not going to grow unless we're willing to look in the places that are going to create moments of shame and self-reflection that are uncomfortable. But that's one of the many gifts of the Enneagram. The Enneagram provides us with an opportunity to compassionately look into our shadow…to hold up a mirror to those behaviors that we can change. In today's episode, Mark Scandrette joins Ian and shares some simple steps you can start using today to help you begin to move from unconscious to conscious living. This episode was so full of great insights that we split it into two parts to help you really absorb the content. Mark Scandrette has written five books on practical spirituality that seek to apply spiritual wisdom to everyday life: FREE, Practicing The Way of Jesus, Soul Graffiti, Belonging and Becoming (Co-authored with Lisa Scandrette) and The Ninefold Path Notebook (with Danielle Welch). He regularly teaches and offers workshops and training events based on themes from these books. Before each book is published he usually spends several years piloting the concepts and processes explored with groups in multiple contexts. He is currently working on a 6th book on self-awareness, personality and transformation. He also speaks nationally and internationally at universities, conferences and churches and offers training to leaders and organizations through workshops, retreats and group intensives. Mark teaches a doctoral course on spiritual formation at Fuller Theological seminary and has taught courses at Pittsburgh Theological Seminary and Church Divinity School of the Pacific. Wherever Mark travels he speaks with the goal of awakening imagination and inviting audiences to take new steps into life and wholeness. For more about Mark, visit www.markscandrette.com.

Open to new experiences, Sevens are self-confident, optimistic and joyful people who exude loads of energy. They bring a sense of adventure and energy to their relationships and generally try to avoid negative feelings. But that doesn't mean that Sevens aren't emotionally articulate. In fact, as part of the Head Triad, Sevens are very intelligent about a variety of subjects, including emotions. It's just that it's not the first thing they want to talk about. In today's episode, Enneagram 7, Dave Barnes joins us to discuss how integrating the Enneagram into his spiritual development has helped him slow down his internal processor and taught him to keep tabs on whether or not he is staying present in the moment. About Dave Barnes: Dave Barnes is a respected Nashville artist and songwriter who received GRAMMY and CMA nominations for Blake Shelton's recording of his hit song "God Gave Me You." Barnes has also penned songs for Tim McGraw, Thomas Rhett & Maren Morris, Reba McEntire, Marc Broussard, Billy Currington, Hunter Hayes, Matt Wertz, Ben Rector, among many others. Touring extensively over the past 15 years as a headlining artist, he has also opened for Bonnie Raitt, Taylor Swift, John Mayer, Lady Antebellum, Hanson, and One Republic, to name a few. Dave Barnes has recorded three EP's and ten full-length albums, including his newest project, the LP Who Knew It Would Be So Hard To Be Myself, releasing February 9, 2018. He is also well known for his brand of humor, having sold out several stand-up comedy shows throughout the Southeast. Many of his comedic videos are posted to his YouTube video series.

The Enneagram is a great tool for discovering why we feel the way we feel, act the way we act, and think the way we think. For Fives, who are unconsciously motivated by Avarice (or Greed), the Enneagram can help identify when fear begins to take over and they are operating with a perpetual scarcity mentality. On auto-pilot, Fives can be inclined to disassociate and observe from a distance, rather than jumping in and participating in life. In today's episode, Tim Mackie and Jon Collins from The Bible Project, discuss how the Enneagram has helped them tackle undiscovered territory in their own temperaments and value systems, and how learning to name, pay attention to, and honor these parts of their personality has allowed them to release control of different parts of their lives and receive every part of what each day brings. Tim Mackie is a writer and creative director for The Bible Project. He has a PhD in Semitic Languages and Biblical Studies. He wrote his dissertation on the manuscript history of the book of Ezekiel, with a focus on the Septuagint and Dead Sea Scrolls. What a total nerd! He is a professor at Western Seminary and served as a teaching pastor for many years. Jon Collins is a writer and creative director for The Bible Project. He has a BA in Biblical Studies from Multnomah University (where he met Tim). Jon is affectionately known by the team as the Architect of Ideas. He is a master of making complex ideas simple and has spent the last decade founding and leading digital media and marketing companies. Together, Tim and Jon founded The Bible Project. The Bible Project is a non-profit animation studio that produces short-form, fully animated videos to make the biblical story accessible to everyone, everywhere. They create videos, podcasts, and study guides. To learn more, visit www.thebibleproject.com.

Sixes have excellent analytical minds, are great strategists, troubleshooters, problem-solvers, and of course, see worst-case scenarios that other people don't see. The passion of the Six is fear which is often experienced as anxiety…anxiety that the unexpected could happen at any time. Sixes are really good at playing out all the worst-case scenarios in any given situation. But once they launch a mental narrative in their head of all that could go wrong, these fictional stories can take on lives of their own and can grow and crowd out what's actually happening. For growth and transformation, Sixes need to learn to acknowledge their fear and doubt, own their own power and authority instead of projecting it onto others, and make a conscious effort to develop trust in others. In today's episode, Jeff Chu joins Ian to talk about embracing his fears by identifying those aspects of his personality that are responses to things he's been through in the past. Jeff Chu is a Brooklyn-based freelance reporter and writer as well as a seminarian at Princeton Theological Seminary. Most recently, he was on staff at Fast Company for almost eight years. During that time, Jeff edited, wrote, and reported on lots of different things. Jeff's reporting and writing have also appeared in a bunch of other places—The New York Times Magazine, Travel+Leisure, the Wall Street Journal, the Washington Post, Modern Farmer. When big publishers were still starting magazines and pouring millions of dollars into them, Jeff was an editor on the launch team of the now-defunct Conde Nast Portfolio. And before that, he spent seven years at Time magazine, where he really received his journalistic education. Jeff was a London-based web producer and staff writer.

When you truly begin doing your work, the Enneagram really should mess with you. It should dis-equilibrate you, throw you back on your heals, make you wonder, "Who am I? Who is everybody else? What am I supposed to do now? This week we're back with part 2 of Claire Diaz-Ortiz's interview revealing how her research into Enneagram Threes has helped her dig beneath the surface and shift her focus towards using the gifts she's developed to lift up others from behind the scenes. Claire Diaz-Ortiz is an author, speaker and Silicon Valley innovator who was an early employee at Twitter. Named one of the 100 Most Creative People in Business by Fast Company, she holds an MBA and other degrees from Stanford and Oxford and has been featured widely in print and broadcast media. She writes a popular business blog at ClaireDiazOrtiz.com and is the award-winning author of eight books that have been published in more than a dozen countries. To learn more about Claire, visit www.clairediazortiz.com.

Welcome back to Season 2 of Typology. I'm thrilled to continue Season Two with a really great friend who I've known for many years, Aaron Niequist. Though Aaron is a four on the Enneagram, we're actually going to explore some new territory today. We're going to go into some content that'll be great for every single number to know and learn about. With two fours on the line, I do need to say that because otherwise, everyone will just assume that all we're going to do is talk about ourselves for a long time. Not today. So many of our listeners have asked me to talk about subtypes. Everybody asks, "Can you please say more about subtypes? What are they and how do I determine mine?" Those are great questions actually because there are multiple variations of type. I think what happens with each variation is you get another degree of clarity about the nature of the type itself, it's different flavors and expressions. One of the most important next steps a person can take after they know all the basics is to learn their subtype. If you are somebody who, for example, can't figure out your type, I would steer you toward instincts and subtypes because that's another way of kind of getting at type. So tune in as I break it down for you and Aaron. Aaron Niequist has served as a leader at some of the most influential churches in the country. In 2014, he launched a neo-liturgical, ecumenical, practice-based service at Willow Creek in Chicago. He also created a series of liturgical recordings called A New Liturgy to help people create holy space wherever they find themselves. Niequist and his wife, bestselling author Shauna Niequist, live in the suburbs of Chicago with their two sons. For more information, visit aaronniequist.com and anewliturgy.com.

Claire Diaz-Ortiz first discovered the Enneagram in 2005 and typed herself as an Enneagram One. When Ian first interviewed Claire in Season One, she came onto the show sharing her life through the lens of a One. But the more she and Ian dug into her narrative, the more Ian began to sense there was more to Claire's story. Ian suggested she consider reading up on Enneagram Threes...and she did. Today, Claire returns to reveal how her research into Enneagram Threes has had impacted her and helped her become "quiet enough to listen" so real, deep change can happen. Claire Diaz-Ortiz is an author, speaker and Silicon Valley innovator who was an early employee at Twitter. Named one of the 100 Most Creative People in Business by Fast Company, she holds an MBA and other degrees from Stanford and Oxford and has been featured widely in print and broadcast media. She writes a popular business blog at ClaireDiazOrtiz.com and is the award-winning author of eight books that have been published in more than a dozen countries. To learn more about Claire, visit www.clairediazortiz.com.

Enneagram Twos are called The Helpers. They are some of the most loving, kind, supportive, upbeat, and—when healthy—genuinely helpful to other people. Their underlying motivation is to feel loved and needed. But sometimes that need to be needed can lead to burn out. In this week's episode of Typology, we revisit our Panel of Twos who describe what it's like to view life through the eyes of The Helper. So, tune in and listen as the loud-laughing, contentedly uncool mom of three teenagers, Tia Coffey, Vanderbilt University fundraising specialist and stand-up comic, Geoff Little, and singer-songwriter-author, Andrew Greer join Ian to talk about finding the balance between giving enough and giving to the point of burn out.

Discovering the Enneagram was a game-changer for Rob. His knowledge and enthusiasm for the Enneagram runs deep, and as you'll discover while we revisit this episode, Rob is an Enneagram "7 with a 7 wing." Check out Rob's latest book, What Is the Bible?, and visit RobBell.com for speaking dates and other events.

This week we are revisiting Ian's interview with 'Science Mike' McHargue as he shares his journey through the inner sanctum of an Enneagram Nine and his process of building a healthy connection to anger. To preserve their inner peace and harmony, Nines often deny or simply don't even recognize their anger. Instead, they create an inner boundary to tamp down any feelings or desires that might disturb their calm inner sea. They also establish an external boundary to protect themselves from anything external that might cause inner tumult. This desire for inner and outer peace is so innate that Nines unconsciously absorb other people's emotional energy. Mike McHargue (better known as Science Mike) is an author, podcaster, and speaker who travels the world helping people understand the science of life's most profound experiences. His bestselling debut book, Finding God in the Waves, has helped thousands understand faith in the 21st century. Mike hosts Ask Science Mike, a weekly question and answer podcast helping hundreds of thousands explore the questions they've always been afraid to ask. He also co-hosts The Liturgists Podcast with his friend Michael Gungor. With over a million downloads per month, The Liturgists Podcast is reshaping how the spiritually homeless and frustrated relate to God. And his bestselling debut book, Finding God in the Waves, has helped thousands understand faith in the 21st century. To learn more about Science Mike, visit www.mikemchargue.com

For the month of July we will be revisiting some of Typology's most downloaded episodes. This week we revisit Ian's interview with Sarah Thebarge. Sarah shares how she approaches the world through the lens of an Enneagram Six. With a strong need for security and consistency, Sixes appreciate order, plans and rules and like the comfort and predictability of laws and guidelines. But their passion is fear, which is often experienced as anxiety. Anxiety is a vague, free-floating sense of apprehension that arises in response to an unknown or potential threat that may never materialize. So, how do Sixes achieve spiritual growth? A lot of Sixes think the answer is bravery, but there's never enough bravery to fill the bucket of "this is a scary world and I need support." In today's episode, Sarah Thebarge shares the difference between bravery and courage and how making that distinction has been helpful for her as an Enneagram Six. Sarah Thebarge is a speaker, blogger, journalist and author of The Invisible Girls, a memoir that weaves her story of nearly dying of breast cancer in her 20's together with the story of a Somali refugee family she met on a train in Portland, Oregon, as she was recovering from her cancer treatments.

Today we are revisiting Ian's interview with celebrated Author, Speaker Bob Goff and his wife Maria. Bob is an Enneagram 7 and Maria is a 9. And even though this episode provides a lot of insight into the worldview of a 7 and 9, the show today is really more about marriage and how two very distinct personality types can create a climate in which difference isn't merely tolerated, but rather is celebrated. Now, even if you're not married, you'll still love this episode because it paints a marvelous picture of how two very different Enneagram types, regardless of the kind of relationship they have forged, can come together to form a bond in which the two become more than the sum of their individual parts. It's a great model. Be sure and check out Bob's newest book, Everybody, Always: Becoming Love in a World Full of Setbacks and Difficult People, and Maria's book, Love Lives Here. Also, check out Dream Big Framework to learn about Bob's upcoming workshop.

As Richard Rohr says, Ones are childlike and full of joy and wonder at the world and creation. But for Ones, that sense of joy has been lost. Instead, they suppress their own feelings and focus on being good and doing what is right. They feel a sense of duty and responsibility and may harbor resentment toward others who don't see things the right way – their way. But what would it look like if Ones reclaimed their childlike wonder? When Ones move toward health, they begin to let judgments go and become more at ease with imperfection. They begin to truly quiet that inner critic and turn it into an inner encourager. Our guest today, Julianne Cusick, shares how her journey towards self-awareness and self-knowledge as an Enneagram One has allowed her to prioritize relationships over perfection and has given her permission to have fun dancing in the kitchen. Julianne Cusick is a licensed minister and registered psychotherapist whose passion is to fight for the hearts of women silenced by shame and fear related to their husband's sexual brokenness. Julianne is a 2nd-year graduate student for a Masters in Marriage and Family Therapy at Argosy University, Denver. She thrives on personal and professional growth. A dynamic and engaging communicator, Julianne speaks to Christian organizations, women's groups, and retreats – all from the voice of hope and her own story of healing and redemption. She is the mother of a high-schooler and young adult son, and enjoys gardening, reading, and spending time with family and friends.

Every single day I receive multiple emails from listeners saying they are stuck and can't figure out their Enneagram type. Usually, my first recommendation is to dive into the Subtypes of each number to see if that helps narrow things down. But there is something else to consider…something we have not yet talked about on Typology. Just as the Enneagram is broken into Triads, it is also broken into Stances--the Dependent Stance, the Withdrawing Stance, and the Aggressive Stance. So, if you're still conflicted, ask yourself which stance are you? Are you someone who is withdrawing? Are you someone who is assertive? Or are you someone who is dependent and more compliant? Because oftentimes when you're stuck between two or three types they can each feel very different--like they are in conflict with each other. And when those types don't fall into the same stance category then knowing your "default stance" can really help iron things out. On today's episode of Typology, Ashley Cleveland and I delve into the stances, right-sizing the personality and how surrender and acceptance are the gateways to everything. It's a great episode you won't want to miss. Since her debut on Atlantic Records in 1991, Ashley Cleveland has recorded 9 critically acclaimed albums. She has won three Grammys for Best Rock Gospel Album (Lesson of Love, 1995; You Are There, 1998; Before the Daylight's Shot, 2007). She was the first female to be nominated in that category and the only one to win the award three times. She has been nominated for six Dove awards and won twice for compilation records (Songs from the Loft: Praise and Worship Album of the year; The Jesus Record: Album of the Year). She received her fourth Grammy nomination in 2010 for her disc, God Don't Never Change, a collection of spirituals in the Best Traditional Gospel Album category. Three of her albums have been on Billboard's year-end best list (Big Town, Bus Named Desire, Men and Angels Say) and she has been nominated twice for a Nashville Music Award (Lesson Of Love, God Don't Never Change) winning for Lesson Of Love. She was named Female Vocalist of the year in 2007 by Christianity Today.net and, in addition to her own recordings, has contributed background vocals on over 300 records over the course of her career. Her 10th album, One More Song, is due for release late in 2017. Ashley is currently the subject of a new documentary from Big Branch productions expected to release in early 2018. The working title is: Who's The Girl?. Ashley is a writer/essayist and has written a memoir entitled "Little Black Sheep" which was released September 2013 by David C Cook Publishing and she is currently working on two new memoirs. Ashley is a native of Knoxville, Tennessee, and lives in Franklin, Tennessee with her husband Kenny Greenberg. She has three adult children, Rebecca, Henry and Lily. For more about Ashley, visit www.ashleycleveland.com.

Our guest today is an Enneagram professional, spiritual director, coach, facilitator, and author who is passionate about the Enneagram personality model and its value in Christian spiritual transformation. Her workshops and retreats focus on how the Enneagram helps people identify barriers to living out their unique expression and experience as one created in God's image. This show is packed with great information for those who know your Enneagram type and are interested in learning how to shift your attention and grow in self-awareness. Today, Marilyn Vancil talks about: the focus of attention for each type what to do when you realize you're locked into a habit of attention and how to break it, and how to know when it's time to wake up and develop a spiritual practice Marilyn earned her certification as an Enneagram Professional in the Narrative Tradition through Enneagram Worldwide, and has also taken courses on the Enneagram at Loyola University and the Deep Coaching Institute. She enjoys life in Seattle with her husband, Jeff. For more information about Marilyn, visit www.marilynvancil.com.

Eights are often called the Challengers, but I like to call them the Protectors or Defenders. Every type has a basic fear and desire coloring the waters of their personality. The basic fear of an Eight is being not in control of their self. The basic desire is to avoid feeling weak or vulnerable. But Eights can often be misinterpreted. Though they can often appear blunt and aggressive, Eights are truly about justice and looking out for their tribe and making sure others feel like they belong. Eights have lots of energy. They are high energy, movement people who like to see things get done. The downside of Eights might be that they are low on the vulnerability side of things. They only trust a small amount of people, and though it may take a lot to get in the trust circle, it doesn't take much for you to get out. It's very hard to get on the list, and then you just have to do one thing and you're off the list. But what does it look like when an Eight has done their work and views life through the healthy lens of an Eight? Listen in as Patrick Chappell discusses various triggers and how he approaches them from the lens of an Eight. Patrick is southern born and bred, having been born in Birmingham and raised in Chattanooga. Patrick earned his degree in Oral Communication and Public Relations from Lipscomb University. He then served as an Admissions Recruiter for the University, traveling the country to bring students to Nashville for a Christian education. He is currently the College and Young Adult Minister at Otter Creek Church in Brentwood, TN. Patrick is passionate about life, spending many hours reading, going to concerts, taking in movies and his favorite TV shows, as well as spending countless hours over coffee with friends. He's also a big fan of the band Weezer.

Sevens are the joy bombs of the Enneagram. The energy they give off is energetic, fun-loving and naturally cheerful. They are optimistic by nature and seize every moment of life. They live for the next adventure and are experts at reframing a negative situation to find the silver lining. But all their "living for tomorrow" is really to avoid pain and introspection. Sevens may have an underlying feeling that if they allow themselves to feel an emotion they'll get stuck in that emotion never come out. They keep their minds busy and occupied with projects and ideas for the future in an unconscious attempt to evade having negative emotional or psychological feelings. Listen in as we jump into an energetic conversation with Enneagram Seven, Luke Norsworthy, and find out why it's important for Sevens to enjoy life with a small spoon. Luke and his wife Lindsay along with their three daughters live in Austin, TX where Luke is the senior minister of the Westover Hills Church. Luke's first book God over Good releases October 2018. Luke also hosts the Newsworthy with Norsworthy Podcast, a weekly podcast discussing Spirituality, Christianity, and anything else that seems news worthy. You can follow Luke on Twitter: @LukeNorsworthy

The last time I spoke with Jen Hatmaker on her "For of Love" podcast, we talked about how she identifies as a Three. As our conversation continued I began to think, "Man, you've got a lot of features of an Eight. I wonder if you should check out this other type." Threes and Eights are both assertive, ambitious, and competitive. But the difference is that an average eight wants to get their way pretty fast because they just don't want to waste time. They're not afraid to get into an argument, but they're like, "Whatever, I just want to get the power and the control in the room here a little bit or in life." They'll compete for dominance, but it's less about social or status issues, it's more about power. For Threes, it's much more about status and appearances. Threes are less interested in having the power rather they are more interested in being admired by others. In today's episode, we discuss the similarities and differences of Threes and Eights and how that manifests under the umbrella of fighting for justice and grace. Listen as we talk about Jen's need to stand up for various social issues, her ability to embrace confrontation for what is just, and the emotional response to doing just that.

Last week David Gungor shared his struggle in determining his type, how he embraces his "chaotic intentionality," and what it means to need others to "get out of his face." Today we continue the conversation about how the Enneagram can help Enneagram Eights grow in self-awareness through spiritual practices and leaning into the people they do trust to gain true intimacy. David Gungor is a member of The Brilliance, the American worship music duo of David Gungor and John Arndt. The band started making music in 2010 under the Integrity Music label. Their new album was "All is Not Lost" released in January 2017. David is also an associate pastor at Trinity Grace Tribeca. For more information about David, visit www.thebrilliancemusic.com

Enneagram Eights are called The Challenger for a good reason. Eights don't like to feel controlled and avoid any appearance of vulnerability. They are naturally confrontational and their combative energy can feel intimidating to others. But what feels like intimidation to others actually feels like connection to an Eight. Eights express their anger freely, are fueled by high levels of stimulation, and react very strongly against challenging injustices. And, as you'll hear from our guest, David Gungor, the "circle of trust" is small but tight. So what does it sound like when an Eight acknowledges their weakness or vulnerability? What does it look like when you break through that tough exterior? Listen as David Gungor shares his struggle in determining his type, how he embraces his "chaotic intentionality," and what it means to need others to "get out of his face." David Gungor is a member of The Brilliance, the American worship music duo of David Gungor and John Arndt. The band started making music in 2010 under the Integrity Music label. Their new album was "All is Not Lost" released in January 2017. David is also an associate pastor at Trinity Grace Tribeca. For more information about David, visit www.thebrilliancemusic.com.

Twos have an amazing way of making other people feel safe and comfortable. They are some of the most caring, supportive and upbeat people I know. They accept you as you are, aren't judgmental and create space where people can speak from their hearts and experience. Yet, Twos need to be needed but for a Two to admit their own "neediness" is very difficult. They rarely ask for help and don't know how to receive it when it's offered. Instead, they focus their energy on meeting the needs of others. They have to DO things to really feel loved. Unhealthy Twos don't know who they are if they aren't doing things for the people around them. So, for a Two to grow in self-awareness and gain self-compassion, they need to embrace the truth that we all have needs. We're all broken in some way. And that's okay. It just makes us more human. In today's episode, Michele Cushatt joins us to talk about how Twos can stop seeing their wounds as a flaw but rather as portals for deeper connection for others.

This week we continue with our panel of Fours -- Sandra McCracken, Megan Miller, Matthew Perryman Jones, and Don Chaffer. Tune in as we discuss the strengths and challenges of being a Four, and then stick around to the end when Ian and guests pull some guitars down from the studio walls and spontaneously break into a Dylan tune. It's pretty unforgettable.

For those who are new to the Enneagram or to what life is like as an Enneagram Four, let me just give a 50,000-foot fly-by of the Enneagram Four. Fours, called the Individualists, sometimes called the Romantics or the Tragic Romantics, these are folks who have a sense that they carry within themselves some deficiency--some irredeemable deficiency--a missing piece in their essential makeup that they can't quite name. It actually elicits or brings up in them this kind of inconsolable longing for the un-nameable missing piece that they're trying to find and recover so that they can feel a part of the world. They feel as though they're disqualified from belonging because they're different from other people. And so, this launches them on a lifelong quest, usually early on with the struggling low self-esteem, I've never met a Four who told me that that was not an issue for them. And their passion, or their deadly sin, is Envy. So, what is it that Fours? Fours envy the normalcy, the happiness, and the apparent ease with which other people seem to move in the world. We just look at other people and think they just haven't suffered as much as we have. We just have this perception that other people have had an easier time of it in this life. And that can sometimes give us a little bit of superiority, almost, because we also become addicted to our suffering if we're not careful. It becomes the core of our identity--the tragic story of the past that we don't know how to divorce ourselves from, and even if we could who would we be without it, without that tragic story? God, we'd be ordinary, which of course points to the underlying motivation of the Four which is a compulsive need to be unique and special as a strategy to compensate for what we perceive to be this irredeemable deficiency. To best illustrate the ways that Fours are unique, even from each other, I brought in a panel of Fours for this week's show. The thing I love about panels is it's so much better for people to learn about these different types, these archetypes of the Enneagram, straight from the mouths of those who live in the shoes of those different styles of being in the world. Fours are the most misunderstood number on the Enneagram in general. So, tune in as Sandra McCracken, Megan Miller, Matthew Perryman Jones, and Don Chaffer join us in studio to talk about all things Four.

After a knee-jerk reaction of skepticism, Dr. Richard Beck and his wife, Jana, share how the Enneagram has had a profound effect on their family. In today's show, we talk about the disjoint of how we conceive ourselves and how we behave on the ground, how personality and virtue cut across Enneagram types, and the unique contribution of the fluidity of the Enneagram. Richard Beck, Ph.D. is a research psychologist, professor, and award-winning author. His books include: Unclean: Meditations on Purity, Hospitality and Mortality (2011), The Authenticity of Faith: The Varieties and Illusions of Religious Experiences (2012), The Slavery of Death (2013), Reviving Old Scratch: Demons and the Devil for Doubters and the Disenchanted (May 2016), and his newest book, which just released in November, Stranger God: Meeting Jesus in Disguise. To learn more about Richard, visit https://experimentaltheology.blogspot.com or his author page at https://amzn.to/2uKfzEQ.

This week we jump back into our conversation with Paul Young to help nail down his type. Figuring out his type was hard, as it can be for many. But I think Paul has suffered and worked through so many things in his life, he has reached a point where I think he's maybe one of the most integrated nines I've ever known. Also, because of that, he has a mystical quality. When they're healthy, nines are so awake there's a mystical quality to them. I think it becomes tough to figure out their type because they're so attuned and plugged in across all these types, but they're awake. Paul Young is the author of The Shack (2007), Cross Roads (2012), Eve (2015), and he just released his latest book, Lies we believe about GOD (2017). To learn more about Paul or to check out his books, visit www.wmpaulyoung.com.

When learning the Enneagram and figuring out your number, one of the things that complicates the process is trauma and the effect of trauma on personality development and theory. I always say, I think personality, just the defensive nature of the personality thickens on people with trauma. The staircase is steeper that we have to climb. Our guest in this two-part episode is not sure if he's a 9 or a 7. And so during the show, we actually get into it, we actually help Author Paul Young nail it in the second episode. Paul Young is a human being whose heart and soul are fascinating and are also enriching. I have a special place of affection in my heart for Paul, and I know you're really going to get a lot out of this show. Paul Young is the author of The Shack (2007), Cross Roads (2012), Eve (2015), and he just released his latest book, Lies we believe about GOD (2017). To learn more about Paul or to check out his books, visit www.wmpaulyoung.com.

I've said it before, Sixes are wonderful. They have a strong need for security and consistency. They appreciate order, plans and rules and like the comfort and predictability of laws and guidelines. But Sixes also have a shadow side. Their passion is fear, which is often experienced as anxiety. Anxiety is a vague, free-floating sense of apprehension that arises in response to an unknown or potential threat that may never materialize. So, how do Sixes achieve spiritual growth? A lot of Sixes think the answer is bravery, but there's never enough bravery to fill the bucket of "this is a scary world and I need support." But in today's episode, Sarah Thebarge shares the difference between bravery and courage and how making that distinction has been helpful for her as an Enneagram Six. Sarah Thebarge is a speaker, blogger, journalist and author of The Invisible Girls, a memoir that weaves her story of nearly dying of breast cancer in her 20's together with the story of a Somali refugee family she met on a train in Portland, Oregon, as she was recovering from her cancer treatments. The Invisible Girls is a World Magazine Notable Book and was also chosen as the First Year Experience book by Mississippi State University. Her current book, THE WELL: Healing Our Beautiful, Broken World from a Hospital in West Africa, is a deeply personal account of what practicing medicine at a hospital in Togo taught Sarah about how each of us can heal the cracks we see in the world around us. Sarah's blog was featured by MSNBC.com. Her writing has appeared in National Geographic, USA Today, Everyday Health, Relevant Magazine, Christianity Today, Huffington Post, Red Letter Christian and Sojouorneers. As a speaker, Sarah is a regular at retreats, churches, colleges and conferences. She has spoken at Donald Miller's Storyline Conference and the Jubilee Conference, as well as more than 40 universities and colleges. In addition to speaking to large assemblies, Sarah gives talks on the topics of International Aid, Health Communications and Public Health, and teaches nonfiction writing workshops.

Every type on the Enneagram has misbeliefs and errant unconscious motivations that get us to do and think and feel things that just are not in our best interests. We all have these broken messages in our lives that run like recordings in the background. The hurtful words and experiences from our past often determine what record play in our head as an adult. In her new book, How to Fix a Broken Record, Amena Brown uses music to help us recognize the negative messages that play on repeat throughout our lives. Think of your soul as one big record collection with a soundtrack for different parts of your life. What broken record runs through your life? And how can you use the Enneagram to recognize these negative messages so you can reclaim your life? Amena Brown is an author, spoken word poet, speaker, and event host. The author of five spoken word albums and two non-fiction books, Amena performs and speaks at events from coffeehouses to arenas with a mix of poetry, humor, and storytelling. She and her husband, DJ Opdiggy, reside in Atlanta, GA. She hosts a 10-episode limited edition podcast called, "How to Fix a Broken Record," which unpacks themes from her book with a different guest each episode discussing life, love, faith, and broken records revealing the soundtracks of their lives. https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/how-to-fix-a-broken-record/id1296534604?mt=2 And she hosts her regular podcast "Here for the Donuts" with her sister-in-law Missi Burgess in which they discuss donuts, cupcakes and navigating life's awkward moments and meeting standards of weird etiquette. https://itunes.apple.com/mt/podcast/here-for-the-donuts-podcast/id1183039922?mt=2 To learn more about Amena visit www.amenabrown.com or order her book at http://amzn.to/2oUg4WA.

Have you ever wondered what it would be like to go on tour with a band? It sounds exciting, right? You'd hop on a tour bus, travel coast to coast seeing the world, and entertain thousands of people every night. But, what is it truly like to live on a bus with 11 other people day-in and day-out? Well, when the road manager of Tenth Avenue North reached out to talk about how the Enneagram, and The Road Back to You in particular, has helped their band get along in tight quarters, I was excited to get them in the studio. There are 12 of them…with 12 bunks…on one tour bus. We weren't sure what would happen as we squeezed into Anthony's studio, but it was great! Listen as we uncover how the Enneagram has given Tenth Avenue North a new starting place for communicating and facing conflict. For more about Tenth Avenue North or to catch them on tour, visit their website at www.tenthavenuenorth.com. And don't miss them in Nashville on March 4th!

When Nines are healthy and self-aware, they learn to feel special and important. They get in touch with their own passions and feel secure enough to stand behind their accomplishments. They become assertive and decisive. But when they switch to autopilot and spiritually fall asleep at the wheel, they doubt themselves and become more pessimistic. The deadly sin, or the passion of Nines, Sloth, is really about the failure to invest in your own self-development, in your own spiritual maturity, becoming your own person, finding your own voice, and claiming your ground. Nines need to be reminded that they matter. Nines need to do things for themselves, invest in themselves, and not feel like it's a poor investment. In her book, Reading People: How Seeing the World through the Lens of the Personality Changes Everything, author Anne Bogel talks about being at peace with who you are. And, of course, who doesn't want that? I mean, I don't know anybody who doesn't want peace with themselves, to have a sense of consonance, a sense of integration despite all of their dings and dents. Part of the journey for Nines is learning to take action on their own behalf and invest in themselves. One helpful way for nines to summon self-compassion and find peace with who they are is to imagine what it would be like for somebody else to experience what you are experiencing. Ask yourself, "What advice would you give someone else?" Then use that to summon the appropriate action for yourself. Anne Bogel is the creator of the blog Modern Mrs. Darcy, the voice of the top-rated books and reading podcast "What Should I Read Next", and a bona fide personality geek. Her first book, Reading People: How Seeing the World Through the Lens of Personality Changes Everything, combines her loves of literature and personality frameworks. To learn more about Anne Bogel visit www.modernmrsdarcy.com.

In Enneagram-speak, Enneagram Twos are called The Helpers. They are some of the most loving, kind, supportive, upbeat, and—when healthy—genuinely helpful to other people. Their underlying motivation is to feel loved and needed. But sometimes that need to be needed can lead to burn out. But, why listen to me talk about The Helper when you can hear it from those who actually live it? In this week's episode of Typology, I brought together a panel of Twos to describe what it's like in the mind of The Helper. So, tune in and listen as the loud-laughing, contentedly uncool mom of three teenagers, Tia Coffey, Vanderbilt University fundraising specialist and stand-up comic, Geoff Little, and singer-songwriter-author, Andrew Greer join me to talk about finding the balance between giving enough and giving to the point of burn out. Tia Coffey spends her workdays as an executive assistant, her evenings as a student, and her free time drinking wine, hiking, having theological conversations with friends, or hanging with her kids and an anxious chihuahua named Napoleon. Geoff Little works by day as a fundraising specialist at Vanderbilt University, but after hours he spirals into a whirl of outgoing pursuits. He loves spoken word live performances, including stand-up comedy. He is former co-host of TenX9 Nashville, a critically acclaimed storytelling group. He founded (and still leads) Nashville's Beer & Hymns public singing group phenomenon, which sells out Nashville rock club Mercy Lounge on occasion (don't miss this year's St. Patrick's Day Pub Sing!). He is married to his lovely wife, Tara, and on a good day, she lets him jog with her in the nearby Warner Parks, graciously slowing down her pace. Andrew Greer is a multiple Dove Award-nominated singer-songwriter and respected author, known for his old soul sound and thoughtful prose. The native Texan-turned-Tennessean's folk-gospel discography displays a deep affection for vintage spiritual songs, instinctively captured on his critically acclaimed Angel Band hymn series—reaching the Top 10 on Amazon and iTunes' mainstream charts upon release. With a love for facilitating conversations that dig deep, Andrew co-created and co-hosts the video podcast, Dinner Conversations with Mark Lowry and Andrew Greer: Turning the Light on One Question at a Time. The conversations-centered series debuted at #1 on iTunes Religion & Spirituality chart last year, and is now syndicated on television nationwide. Andrew has also authored two books— Transcending Mysteries: Who is God, and What Does He Want From Us? (Thomas Nelson) co-authored with Ginny Owens, and Winds of Heaven, Stuff of Earth: Spiritual Conversations Inspired by the Life and Lyrics of Rich Mullins (Worthy Publishing).

Our personality types can put us into an almost hypnotic trance, something I'd call the shadow. We relegate to the shadow those parts of ourselves we don't want to see. What the Enneagram does is it takes a flashlight and it goes into the shadow with you. It says, "Okay, we've got to look around." It helps us embrace the journey inward. And no, it's not going to be comfortable. It is going to be painful because embracing pain isn't something we do well. It's something that we avoid well. But it's important to feel those things as they come up, not analyze them, not try and figure them out. Actually just let them be what they are. Let the beautiful things be beautiful and let the painful things be what they are. In today's episode, Brian Hardin talks about his journey through the lens of a Five. He shares how using the Enneagram as a tool not only gives language to and expands our understanding of each other and of ourselves but also how it helps us pull back the curtain to shed the façade of our personality and find our true self. Though best known for founding Daily Audio Bible, the revolutionary Scripture podcast, downloaded over 55 million times, Brian Hardin is truly a man of many hats. With his trademark soul patch of whiskers and wisps of hair framing his face, the Nashville creative rose to recognition throughout the Christian music industry producing for the legendary likes of Larry Norman to modern radio regulars like Jill Parr and Manic Drive, earning hundreds of album credits and a healthy collection of Grammy and Dove Award nominations. Along the way, he branched out into photography, landing everything from music industry publicity shots to portraits and corporate portfolios, alongside an eye for graphic design that found his work featured in Time, CCM, Christian Retailing and Gaither Homecoming (to name a mere handful). It was from within these extraordinary accomplishments that an unexpected professional blow set Hardin on a path toward restored faith, and eventually, vocational ministry.

About a month ago, I sat down with author and former White House staffer, Michael Wear, to talk about personality, power, and politics. And I know this is a hot-button topic, but I do think it's an important conversation to have. When we're talking about the President of United States and want to understand who he/she is, how he/she operates, and why our country is where it is, I think it's fair to begin to just think out loud what is happening here and what does it mean? So listen in as Michael and I provide some Enneagram insight into the politics of the past and present. Michael is the founder of Public Square Strategies LLC, a sought-after firm that helps religious organizations, political organizations, businesses and others effectively navigate the rapidly changing American religious and political landscape. Michael is a leading expert and strategist at the intersection of faith, politics and American public life. As one of President Obama's "ambassadors to America's believers" (Buzzfeed), Michael directed faith outreach for President Obama's historic 2012 re-election campaign. Michael was also one of the youngest White House staffers in modern American history: he served in the White House faith-based initiative during President Obama's first term, where he led evangelical outreach and helped manage The White House's engagement on religious and values issues, including adoption and anti-human trafficking efforts. And, he's got a new book out titled, "Reclaiming Hope: Lessons Learned in the Obama White House About the Future of Faith in America in which he provides unprecedented insight into the highs and lows of working as a Christian in government. He also writes for The Atlantic, Christianity Today, USA Today, Relevant Magazine and other publications on faith, politics and culture. He serves on the national board of Bethany Christian Services, the nation's largest adoption agency, and holds an honorary position at the University of Birmingham's Cadbury Center for the Public Understanding of Religion. Michael and his wife, Melissa, are both proud natives of Buffalo, New York. They now reside in Washington, D.C. For more information on Michael, visit www.michaelwear.com.

Enneagram Twos are part of the shame triad which, for those who are just getting started with the Enneagram, means that 'shame' is the go-to emotion for Twos, Threes, and Fours. Whatever the external manifestation is of—our struggle, our compulsion, our presenting problem, anger, alcohol, buying stuff that you don't need, sex, helping—shame is always what fuels that compulsion because where there's shame, our soul can't rest, in a sense of being loved. The very thing that we're hungry and thirsty for, which is that kind of deep love for who we are, the shame actually sets us up to never be able to get that. The antidote to that shame is learning to embrace our failures and shortcomings and accept ourselves as we are. Tune in to part two of my conversation with Michael Cusick as we talk about letting go and finding the freedom to live from a place of self-acceptance. Michael Cusick is a licensed professional counselor, spiritual director, speaker and author of two books including Surfing for God: Discovering the Divine Desire Beneath Sexual Struggle and Somebody's Daughter: An Experiential Guide. Having experienced the restoring touch of God in a deeply broken life and marriage, Michael's passion is to connect life's broken realities with the reality of the gospel. In addition to leading Restoring the Soul and equipping Christian organizations around the world, Michael currently serves as an adjunct professor at Denver Seminary. He holds an MA in Biblical Counseling from Colorado Christian University and an MA from the College of Education at the University of Denver. Michael lives with his wife Julianne and two children, in Littleton, Colorado where he enjoys the Rocky Mountains and a host of other outdoor activities with friends and family.

Known as The Helper, or as Michael Cusick prefers to call them, The Giver, Twos can be really great therapists and are maybe the most natural to move into that field, but there's also a lot of things about being a Two that work against that. Twos can care too much for the wrong reasons. Twos are so wired and attuned to the needs and the feelings of other people that they are often clueless as to what their own are. They look to other people to take care of their needs without having to acknowledge or articulate them. A large piece of the journey for Twos is to understand that you do have needs, acknowledge those needs, and actually learn how to articulate them. On today's show, Michael Cusick talks about how the Enneagram has taught him to become more conscious of when he is over-identifying with those aspects of his personality that aren't healthy and helps him make different choices. Michael Cusick is a licensed professional counselor, spiritual director, speaker and author of two books including Surfing for God: Discovering the Divine Desire Beneath Sexual Struggle and Somebody's Daughter: An Experiential Guide. Having experienced the restoring touch of God in a deeply broken life and marriage, Michael's passion is to connect life's broken realities with the reality of the gospel. In addition to leading Restoring the Soul and equipping Christian organizations around the world, Michael currently serves as an adjunct professor at Denver Seminary. He holds an MA in Biblical Counseling from Colorado Christian University and an MA from the College of Education at the University of Denver. Michael lives with his wife Julianne and two children, in Littleton, Colorado where he enjoys the Rocky Mountains and a host of other outdoor activities with friends and family. For more information on Michael, visit www.restoringthesoul.com or www.michaeljohncusick.com.

Healthy Eights are great friends, exceptional leaders and champions of those who cannot fight on their own behalf. They have the intelligence, courage and stamina to do what others say can't be done. And, as with most Enneagram Eights, Jo Saxton is full of Eight's life-giving energy so when she was available for our podcast, I jumped at the chance to interview her. When healthy, Eights learn to open their hearts like a healthy Two. And today, Jo shares how she peeled back the layers, let down her defenses and got in touch with their inner heart. Listen in as we discuss healing broken identities and using the Enneagram as a tool for breaking through the junk that we accumulate and that confuses us from seeing who we truly are. And at the end of the show, Jo Saxton shares some tips for Eights who are just beginning to do their work and how they can begin to grow beyond their broken identity, or their broken personality, into their best self. A few things about Jo...she's a really popular leadership trainer. She's an international speaker. She's a best-selling author. She's passionate about seeing God transform lives across the globe. I mean, she's been featured at conferences like If, Catalyst, Thrive, Propel. She also chairs the board of international discipleship organization called 3D Movements, and cohosts the Lead Stories podcast. Her latest book, The Dream of You: Let Go of Broken Identities and Live the Life You Were Made For is set to release on January 23, 2018. For more information on Jo, visit www.josaxton.com

"Compassion is a verb." - Thich Nhat Hanh The Enneagram helps us recognize and overcome self-defeating patterns of behavior by challenging us to bravely explore who we really are. As we grow in self-awareness we pave the way for our wiser and more compassionate self. Instead of banging guardrail-to-guardrail through life hurting those in our path, the Enneagram allows us to build and sustain healthy relationships by appreciating and understanding our own motivations and behaviors as well as those of our friends and family. In today's episode, the Cron Family gathers over the holidays to discuss how the Enneagram has helped them grow closer and understand each other better. Listen as they share how their family finds balance and appreciation among each other. "The beginning of love is the will to let those we love be perfectly themselves, the resolution not to twist them to fit our own image. If in loving them we do not love what they are, but only their potential likeness to ourselves, then we do not love them: we only love the reflection of ourselves we find in them." - Thomas Merton

This week on Typology, we continue our conversation with 'Science Mike' McHargue. This show is bursting with wisdom about Nines. You'll learn how Nines can spiritually wake up and leverage their unleashed energy for some really cool things, what a Nine looks like in Right Action, and hear some great tips at the end for growing in your journey. Mike McHargue (better known as Science Mike) is an author, podcaster, and speaker who travels the world helping people understand the science of life's most profound experiences. His bestselling debut book, Finding God in the Waves, has helped thousands understand faith in the 21st century. Mike hosts Ask Science Mike, a weekly question and answer podcast helping hundreds of thousands explore the questions they've always been afraid to ask. He also co-hosts The Liturgists Podcast with his friend Michael Gungor. With over a million downloads per month, The Liturgists Podcast is reshaping how the spiritually homeless and frustrated relate to God. And his bestselling debut book, Finding God in the Waves, has helped thousands understand faith in the 21st century. To learn more about Science Mike, visit www.mikemchargue.com

Enneagram Nines, or The Peacemakers, are open and receptive in every way. They can see both sides to everything and they have a profound awareness of the interconnectedness of all things in creation. Their unconscious motivation is to avoid conflict at all costs, to maintain a relational connection, maintain the status quo, and preserve inner peace and harmony. To preserve this inner peace and harmony, Nines create internal and external boundaries. The inner boundary is to tamp down any feelings or desires that might disturb their calm inner sea. The external boundary exists to protect them from anything external that might cause inner tumult. This desire for inner and outer peace is so innate that Nines unconsciously absorb other people's emotional energy. Today on Typology, our guest 'Science Mike' McHargue shares his journey through the inner sanctum of a Nine and his process of building a healthy connection to anger. Mike provides so much insight into the life of the Peacemaker we had to make it a two-part show. Mike McHargue (better known as Science Mike) is an author, podcaster, and speaker who travels the world helping people understand the science of life's most profound experiences. His bestselling debut book, Finding God in the Waves, has helped thousands understand faith in the 21st century. Mike hosts Ask Science Mike, a weekly question and answer podcast helping hundreds of thousands explore the questions they've always been afraid to ask. He also co-hosts The Liturgists Podcast with his friend Michael Gungor. With over a million downloads per month, The Liturgists Podcast is reshaping how the spiritually homeless and frustrated relate to God. And his bestselling debut book, Finding God in the Waves, has helped thousands understand faith in the 21st century. To learn more about Science Mike, visit www.mikemchargue.com