Typology

When human language can no longer carry the freight of an idea or a spiritual truth, you have to default to metaphor or to another language that can do that job. That language might be sculpture, film, music, or art…whatever medium can express things that discursive analytical language cannot. No other Enneagram type can match the Enneagram Four's creative gift for giving language to ideas others of us can't find words for. Today's guests, Craig Lamar Brown and Andrea Summer share how they used their strengths to inspire others to find common ground and have healthy conversations about race, gentrification, and interracial dating in the church through their new movie, Between Mercy and Me. Tune in as we unpack the challenges they faced while working together, how and why Fours can self-destruct, and using art as an outlet for processing emotions.

Let's face it, relationships are complicated. But the more you know about yourself and your partner, the easier it is to communicate and navigate conflict. This week, Mike Alexander, Enneagram Six returns along with his wife, Enneagram One, and psychotherapist Cheryl, for a powerful conversation about the dynamics of their relationship and their own journey of healing within their types. We dig into a few of the challenges they face and learn how figuring out the inner workings of themselves and each other helped salvage their marriage. You don't want to miss this powerful conversation. ----- ABOUT MIKE Mike Alexander is a nationally recognized expert in ethics, integrity, leadership development, and coaching. This specialty began and flourished during his 41-year career in law enforcement and has defined the years following his retirement from service. Through the U.S. Department of Justice Community Policing Divisions, the thirty-six (36) Regional Community Policing Institute, the Multi-jurisdictional Counterdrug Task Force Training Center, the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center, the Texas Municipal League, the International Law Enforcement Administration, and the Texas Police Chiefs Association, the Carruth Policing Institute, he has traveled the nation training officers and community members on leadership development, ethics and integrity. In 1999, he founded the LION Leadership Institute, with workshops focused on leadership engagement, employee wellness, cost of conflict, psychological safety, emotional intelligence, healthy work environments, and socialization. He is currently working as an adjunct professor and leadership and curriculum development consultant with Austin Community College. Instagram: @thelion_institute LinkedIn: @thelion-organizational-development-instituteTwitter: @LION_Institute Facebook: @thelion.institute ABOUT CHERYL Cheryl is a native Texan, born in Waco, Texas, and reared in San Antonio, Texas. She is the daughter of the late LC and Dorothy Christman. She has one sister, Debbie Grady. Cheryl lived in San Antonio, Texas, until she graduated from Incarnate Word High School. After graduating from high school, she attended Southwest Texas State University (now known today as Texas State University) in San Marcos, Texas, where she received her bachelor's degree in Criminal Justice and a master's degree in School Psychology with a minor in Special Education. She is currently working on her dissertation for the Ph.D. Marriage and Family Counseling program at Northwestern University. She worked 13 years in the law enforcement field as a prison guard, an adult probation officer, and a Texas Youth Commission parole officer. She worked 22 years in the education field … 15 years as a school counselor. She is currently in private practice as a Christian Licensed Professional Counselor at Plan C Consultation and Counseling Services.

Whether we're watching it play out on social media or experiencing it in our relationships and workplaces, all of us know someone who is addicted to drama. But how do you recognize a drama addiction in yourself or others? And once you recognize it, how do you break the cycle and live more peacefully? Today on Typology, clinical psychologist Scott Lyons, Ph.D., reveals how he learned to navigate generations of trauma and identifies what a drama addiction is. "Like all addictions, it is looking at how do we fill the void? How do we prevent further pain? How do we fill the void? And when you have a void, you don't exist. There isn't a sense of existence on this plane. So you fill it with things that give you a sense of aliveness or purpose," explains Dr. Lyons. Tune in to hear his advice on how to break free from the damaging effects of living lives consumed by chaos. Follow @typologypodcast on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. -- ABOUT SCOTT LYONS, Ph.D. Dr. Scott Lyons is a holistic psychologist and educator. As a renowned body-based trauma expert, Doctor of Osteopathy and Mind-Body Medicine specialist, Scott helps people to break free of cycles of pain, limited beliefs, and trauma. Scott is an innovator in transformative wellness and trauma therapy, teaching over half a million people internationally over the past twenty years how to relieve stress and restore vitality. Scott has worked with many of the country's top leaders and CEOs as an executive coach and wellness consultant. Scott is the creator of The Embody Lab—the largest online learning platform for body-based trauma therapies—and developer of Somatic Stress ReleaseTM, a holistic process of restoring biological resilience taught in over 20 countries. Scott is also the founder and progressive designer of Omala, a wellness brand dedicated to creating sustainably sourced tools for transformation. Find Dr. Lyons online: Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, TikTok and website

What roadblocks keep you from reaching your true potential? How can you shift your mindset to find true inspiration and fulfillment? CEO of SelfHelp(ful) and host of the SelfHelp(ful) podcast, Kevin Miller believes the key to motivation is understanding what it is that you truly value. "If it wasn't anybody else, if it was just for you, what do you really want, that you can own?" asks Kevin. For a lot of people, when they really become clear on that value, they find it bumps against their existing lifestyle or relationships, and that's hard. But getting to the core of what drives you, and why, is what leads to personal and professional success and fulfillment. Kevin Miller is a former pro cyclist and founder of 19 businesses, with a common thread and devotion throughout all he's done to enhance personal performance and live an inspired life. Today he is CEO of Self-Helpful, Inc., a personal development organization which curates and produces self-help content. Kevin hosts the Self-Helpful podcast (Glassbox Network), which has over 60 million downloads and is routinely visited by today's most influential changemakers. His book, What Drives You (McGraw Hill, May 16, 2023) challenges today's myths on "driven people" and serves as a guide for clarity and conviction in what you authentically value and are motivated by. To learn more about Kevin, listen to the Selfhelp(ful) podcast, or pick up a copy of his new book, What Drives You: How to Discover Your Unique Motivators and Accelerate Growth in Work and Life.

Last week David Gungor shared his struggle in determining his type, how he embraces his "chaotic intentionality," and what it means to need others to "get out of his face." Today we continue the conversation using the Enneagram to help Enneagram Eights grow in self-awareness through spiritual practices and leaning into the people they do trust to gain true intimacy. David Gungor is a member of The Brilliance, the American worship music duo of David Gungor and John Arndt. The band started making music in 2010 under the Integrity Music label. Their latest album was "All is Not Lost" released in January 2017. David is also an associate pastor at Trinity Grace Tribeca. For more information about David, visit www.thebrilliancemusic.com

Enneagram Eights are called The Challenger for a good reason. Eights don't like to feel controlled and avoid any appearance of vulnerability. They are naturally confrontational and their combative energy can feel intimidating to others. But what feels like intimidation to others actually feels like connection to an Eight. Eights express their anger freely, are fueled by high levels of stimulation, and react very strongly against challenging injustices. And, as you'll hear from our guest, David Gungor, the "circle of trust" is small but tight. So what does it sound like when an Eight acknowledges their weakness or vulnerability? What does it look like when you break through that tough exterior? Listen to today's replay from Season 1 as David Gungor shares his struggle in determining his type, how he embraces his "chaotic intentionality," and what it means to need others to "get out of his face." David Gungor is a member of The Brilliance, the American worship music duo of David Gungor and John Arndt. The band started making music in 2010 under the Integrity Music label. Their new album was "All is Not Lost" released in January 2017. David is also an associate pastor at Trinity Grace Tribeca. For more information about David, visit www.thebrilliancemusic.com

The Enneagram is complex and dynamic and is itself, this act of self-curiousity, a portal to growth. With that in mind, how do we use it in an intentional way to achieve more integration and balance in our lives? In today's episode, we dial into the importance of Stances with Enneagram master Dr. Jerome Wagner. Stances are a way that we move through the world in order to get our needs met, but "they can also be a defensive strategy so they work in both ways," says Dr. Wagner, "They protect us and get us what we need." Dr. Wagner provides a comprehensive explanation of the Hornevian Stances and how we can use this knowledge to consciously adapt to life's circumstances in a manner that best serves ourselves and others. ----- Dr. Jerome "Jerry" Wagner, Ph.D. is a clinical psychologist, psychotherapist, supervisor, consultant in private practice, and emeritus faculty member in the Department of Psychology and Institute of Pastoral Studies at Loyola University, Chicago. As one of the earliest students of the Enneagram in the United States, Dr. Wagner has been researching and teaching the Enneagram since 1980 and began the Enneagram Spectrum Training and Certification Program in 1995. He has presented Enneagram workshops for business consultants and coaches, human resource directors, counselors, therapists, spiritual directors, educators, and personal growth audiences throughout the United States and in Canada, England, Spain, Finland, Australia, Hong Kong, Singapore, and South Africa. His books, Nine Lenses on the World: the Enneagram Perspective and The Enneagram Spectrum of Personality Styles: an Introductory Guide, 25th Anniversary Edition are both available through Amazon.com.

Discovering the Enneagram was the key to helping Kelli Thompson get out of her head, move through doubt and rumination, and take action. "It was really just a journey of how do you bring your life back into alignment with your values, learn to trust your heart and your gut, and that they have just as much merit as your brain, and then how do you use that to speak up and set boundaries, and take next steps forward and to make confident decisions," says Kelli. In this episode, Kelli shares the importance of bringing the three centers of intelligence into balance and how to navigate gender stereotypes as an Enneagram 5 in the workplace while not losing yourself in the process. ––– Kelli Thompson is a women's leadership coach and speaker who helps women advance to the rooms where decisions are made. She has coached and trained hundreds of women to trust themselves, lead with more confidence, and create a career they love. She is the founder of the Clarity & Confidence Women's Leadership Program, and a Stevie Award winner for Women in Business—Coach of the Year. Her thought leadership has been featured in Forbes, MarketWatch, Parents Magazine, HuffPost, and FastCompany. She is the author of Closing The Confidence Gap: Boost Your Peace, Your Potential & Your Paycheck. Website Instagram LinkedIn

Are an Enneagram 4 and an Enneagram 8 compatible? While both bring a fierce intensity to the world, they each bring different gifts to the table. Helen Palmer describes their match up, as "a partnership of intensity acted out by fight, flight fascination, and flare. Each feels somewhat awed by the other. Eights feel themselves to be coarse and blunt in comparison with the elegant and socially adept romantic. From their side, Fours can be utterly magnetized by the socially shameless boss. It can be a real cliffhanger." In today's episode, artist and author Makoto Fujimura and his wife, Haejin enter the Typology studio to talk about the importance of establishing their friendship first, their different approaches to battling darkness, and how they are putting together a partnership that is greater than it's individual parts. You'll learn: What they admire most about each other How they navigate and balance their individual intensity Ways they've learned to utilize their individual gifts to honor their partnership Makoto Fujimura is a world-class contemporary artist whose process driven, refractive "slow art" has been described by David Brooks of New York Times as "a small rebellion against the quickening of time". Robert Kushner, in the mid 90's, written on Fujimura's art in Art in America this way: "The idea of forging a new kind of art, about hope, healing, redemption, refuge, while maintaining visual sophistication and intellectual integrity is a growing movement, one which finds Makoto Fujimura's work at the vanguard." Haejin has extensive litigation and courtroom experience defending and prosecuting over 400 civil lawsuits in both federal and state courts. She is admitted to practice in NY, NJ and PA. She has represented manufacturing, insurance, software, e-commerce, franchise, real estate, hotel, restaurant, design, automobile, and transportation companies, nonprofit organizations, and individuals in matters involving contract, partnership dispute, directors/officers liability, corporate governance, business formation, trademark, personal injury, general/premises liability, and subrogation. She also has represented various companies as Outside General Counsel. Haejin is actively involved in the legal and local communities and serves on multiple charities. In 2015, Haejin was invited by Ministry of Health and Welfare of South Korean government to speak on U.S. nonprofit corporation law. She has also spoken at various community and legal organizations to encourage the youth and promote professionalism. To learn more about Mako or to find the exact date and location of his new exhibit coming to Nashville this fall, follow him on social or visit his website at https://makotofujimura.com. https://makotofujimura.com - [email protected] YouTube - @makotofujimura3020 Culture Care Creative Academy Kintsugi I Am Culture Care Instagram - @iamfujimura Facebook - @makotofujimuraart Twitter - @iamfujimura Haejin Shim Fujimura Website LinkedIn Instagram

What is an Instinctual Stack? Do you know yours? We all have three instincts. None of us are absent one. However, one does tend to be dominant. But what are instincts and how do they influence how each type shows up in the world? Today's guest, Elan Benami, creator of the EnneaApp and author of Enneagram Patterns & Poetics, provides a great overview of Instincts, Subtypes, and the Instinctual Stack and shares how they play out for him in his personal and professional life. – Elan is an LPC with a MA in Transpersonal Counseling Psychology and BA in Philosophy. In addition to his own private counseling practice, Elan is the Clinical Director of People House - a non-profit that provides affordable counseling in Colorado. Elan was introduced to the Enneagram in 2008 by his first therapist. He then did intense studying with Lori Ohlson, who was his supervisor. Claudio Naranjo was Lori's primary teacher, so there is a deep kinship with his work. Other major Enneagram teachers who have shaped Elan include Helen Palmer, Russ Hudson, Don Riso, and Sandra Maitri. Elan and Lori Ohlson have co-facilitated many Enneagram classes/workshops, most of them in the narrative tradition. Through Lori's Enneagram material (of over 25 years of teaching the Enneagram), Elan created the EnneaApp, initially for the purpose of having something to quickly reference between sessions. Through the years, he has adapted the content to be more reflective of his own experience while also preserving Lori's lineage. The app has over 1.5 million downloads. Follow the Typology Podcast on Apple, Spotify, or your favorite podcast player to hear the latest episodes. You can also follow us @typologypodcast on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. Learn more about Elan BenAmi: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elanbenami/ EnneaApp Enneagram Patterns & Poetics: A guide to understanding personality

How has your past uniquely prepared you to experience more joy? In today's replay of one of my favorite episodes, Dr. Dan Allender and I explore this question in an insightful conversation about healing the heart from trauma, rewriting the broken stories we adopt as children, and the overlap with the Enneagram. Professor of counseling psychology at The Seattle School and founder of The Allender Center, Dr. Dan Allender has pioneered a unique therapy centered around his innovative theory and training in transforming betrayal, ambivalence, and powerlessness into faith, hope, and love. He's a popular podcaster on The Allender Center Podcast and the author of Healing the Wondered Heart, The Wounded Heart, The Healing Path, To Be Told and God Loves Sex, and Redeeming Heartache: How Past Suffering Reveals Our True Calling. Learn more about Dr. Allender at https://theallendercenter.org or follow him @allendercenter on Facebook and Instagram. -- Follow the Typology Podcast on Apple, Spotify, or your favorite podcast player to hear the latest episodes. You can also follow us @typologypodcast on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter.

Research has shown that Emotional Intelligence (EI) is one of the biggest predictors of personal and professional success. But how do you develop it? Today's guest, expert in global leadership and organizational development and co-host of The Evolving Leader Podcast, Scott Allender joins Ian to discuss what emotional intelligence actually is, how the Enneagram aligns with the five essential skills needed to cultivate it, and shares the importance of reclaiming our lost parts for true healing and wholeness. Scott Allender is an expert in global leadership and organizational development. Along with co-hosting The Evolving Leader podcast, he regularly teaches Enneagram workshops and conducts typing interviews and emotional intelligence assessments for individuals and teams who seek to become more radically self-aware and cognizant of the impact they have on the world. To learn more about your personality-specific path toward lasting emotional intelligence and health, pre-order your copy of The Enneagram of Emotional Intelligence today. Follow the Typology Podcast on Apple, Spotify, or your favorite podcast player to hear the latest episodes. You can also follow us @typologypodcast on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter.

This week, my dear friend and gifted songwriter, Cindy Morgan, joins me for a great conversation about Enneagram Fours, including the push-pull dance of fours in relationships, the well of suffering we can get trapped in, and the importance of authenticity. We also discuss the story behind her debut novel, The Year of Jubilee, and explore how she integrated the Enneagram into the main characters' development. About Cindy Morgan Singer/songwriter Cindy L. Morgan is a two-time Grammy nominee, a thirteen-time Dove winner, and a recipient of the prestigious Songwriter of the Year trophy. An East Tennessee native, her evocative melodies and lyrics have mined the depths of life and love both in her own recording and through songwriting for noteworthy artists around the globe, including Vince Gill, India.Arie, Rascal Flatts, Amy Grant, Sandra McCracken, and Glen Campbell. Cindy is the author of two works of adult nonfiction—the memoir How Could I Ask for More: Stories of Blessings, Battles & Beauty (Worthy Inspire, 2015) and Barefoot on Barbed Wire: A Journey Out of Fear into Freedom (Harvest House Publishers, 2001)—and of the children's picture book Dance Me, Daddy (ZonderKidz, 2009). The Year of Jubilee is her debut novel. Cindy is a co-creator of the charitable Hymns for Hunger Tour, which has raised awareness and resources for hunger relief organizations across the globe. Cindy has two daughters and splits her time living between a small town near Nashville and Holly Springs, North Carolina, with her husband Jonathan. To learn more about Cindy Morgan, follow her on Instagram, Facebook or visit her website. Pre-order her new book, The Year of Jubilee. ----- Follow the Typology Podcast on Apple, Spotify, or your favorite podcast player to hear the latest episodes. You can also follow us @typologypodcast on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter.

As the New York Times bestselling author of 23 books and lead pastor of National Community Church, Mark Batterson believes that the foundation of all healthy relationships and successful careers stems from our proficiency in these three words: Please. Sorry. Thanks. All three of these words require a posture of humility. All three of these words unlock the law of reciprocity and foster connection and understanding. As Mark puts it, "to me, 'please' is a way of being others-focused and honoring others. It's going against the tide of entitlement. I don't want to operate in that way. I want to operate in a way that honors others." This week, Mark Batterson returns to Typology to discuss how these three powerful words impact leadership, relationships, and a healthy mindset. We also explore the distinction between self-awareness and self-consciousness, and the role self-awareness plays in allowing us to give a timely "please," a sincere "sorry," and a heartfelt "thanks." — Mark Batterson is the lead pastor of the National Community Church (NCC) in Washington, D.C. One church in multiple locations, NCC owns and operates Ebenezers Coffeehouse and the DC Dream Center. NCC is currently developing a city block into The Capital Turnaround - this 100,000-square-foot space will include an event venue, child development center, and mixed-use marketplace. Mark holds a doctor of ministry degree from Regent University and is the New York Times bestselling author of 23 books, including Please Sorry Thanks: The Three Words That Change Everything (Multnomah/Penguin Random House; on-sale 4/4/23) and Win the Day, as well as several books for children, including The Best Worst Day Ever (on sale 2/21/23; Multnomah/Penguin Random House), written with his daughter Summer. Pre-order his latest book, Please Sorry Thanks: The Three Words That Change Everything. To learn more about Mark Batterson, follow him on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter or visit his website. Follow the Typology Podcast on Apple, Spotify, or your favorite podcast player to hear the latest episodes. You can also follow us @typologypodcast on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter.

When Kate Bowler was diagnosed with Stage IV cancer, she was forced to grapple with the cultural scripts that box us into a tidy story about how we "earn our lives and get what we deserve," and that "anything is possible." But what if those scripts aren't true? She joins me for an open conversation about her chronic sadness, suffering, and pain, and invites us to be honest about the lives that can't be fixed. She reminds us that "we are people to be loved, not problems to be solved." Kate Bowler is the New York Times bestselling author of Everything Happens for a Reason (And Other Lies I've Loved), No Cure for Being Human (And Other Truths I Need to Hear), and Good Enough. She is the host of the popular podcast, Everything Happens. A Duke University professor, she earned a master's degree in religion from Yale Divinity School and a Ph.D. from Duke University.

What actually makes a fulfilling and meaningful life? Today, Dr. Robert Waldinger, Director of the Harvard Study of Adult Development, reveals the key to real happiness is the strength of our connections and relationships with others. "The people who stay happiest, healthiest, and live the longest have the warmest relationships with other people, "explains Dr. Waldinger. Dr. Waldinger shares the findings of the longest scientific study of happiness, shedding light on the common misconceptions of happiness, how meaningful human connection impacts our health, and what we can do to strengthen existing or forge new relationships. Dr. Robert Waldinger is a professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School, director of the Harvard Study of Adult Development at Massachusetts General Hospital, and cofounder of the Lifespan Research Foundation. In The Good Life, Dr. Waldinger teaches you how to proactively create happiness by focusing on what keeps you healthy rather than what makes you sick.

What are your parenting goals? What does a "win" look like for you? Andy and Sandra Stanley determined years ago that their primary goal as parents was to build strong, healthy relationships with their children that continue into their adulthood. "Our legacy is the relationships, the health of the relationships, and the healthy people in the relationships we leave behind," says Sandra. "We wanted to lay a foundation for our kids early of understanding that life is relationships. And, we wanted them to understand how to restore a broken relationship." This week, Andy and Sandra join me to discuss their latest book, Parenting: Getting It Right, and we share an honest conversation about the importance of intentional parenting, equipping our kids for relational success, and the art of restoring a broken relationship. ---- Communicator, author, and pastor Andy Stanley founded Atlanta-based North Point Ministries (NPM) in 1995. As host of Your Move with Andy Stanley, which delivers over 10.5 million messages each month through television, digital platforms, and podcasts, and author of more than 20 books, Andy is considered one of the most influential pastors in America. Sandra Stanley received her bachelor of science degree from Georgia Tech and master of arts from Dallas Theological Seminary. Sandra has a heart for foster kids and foster families, as she and Andy have been foster parents since 2010. Her ministry passion is promoting foster care in the local church. Much of her time these days is spent working on various writing projects and continuing her involvement with Fostering Together, the foster care initiative at North Point Ministries. In their new book, Parenting: Getting It Right, Andy and Sandra combine their experience and wisdom into a guide that helps readers understand and live by essential parenting principles. Visit Andy's website and Sandra's website to learn more about both of them and their new book.

Several years ago we had Lysa TerKeurst on our show and discussed not confusing the desire for peace with the disease to please. Today, Lysa joins us again for a deep conversation about learning to set good boundaries and where she notices her struggle to maintain them. "It's not that I don't want to be clear," Lysa says, "it's that sometimes I care so much about what the other person is feeling, that I forget it's not my job to own their feelings or manage their feelings. It's my job to be kind but clear. It's their job to manage their feelings." Listen as Lysa demonstrates the immense amount of work she has done over the past few years to establish solid boundaries and find groundedness as an Enneagram Nine. ---------------- Lysa TerKeurst is a New York Times bestselling author of more than 25 books with more than 6 million books in print. Her most recent books include Good Boundaries and Goodbyes, Forgiving What You Can't Forget, and It's Not Supposed to Be This Way. She is president and chief visionary officer of Proverbs 31 Ministries. Lysa writes from her family's farm table in North Carolina. In her recent book, Good Boundaries and Goodbyes, Lysa helps you stop the dysfunction of unhealthy relationships by showing you biblical ways to set boundaries--and, when necessary, say goodbye--without losing the best of who you are. To learn more about Lysa visit her website or follow her on social @LysaTerkeurst and @Proverbs31Ministries. Hear similar episodes here: Lysa TerKeurst episode in 2019, Panel of Nines, Type 9s with Beatrice Chestnut, Andy Gullahorn on Forming Own Opinions

As President of Belmont University, Dr. Greg Jones sees the importance of connection and community and puts a strong emphasis on molding character through storytelling. "I think that people are yearning for that sense of hope and that sense of community," says Dr. Jones, "and, I think, to be able to hear one another's stories, share one another's stories, and find a story worth living." This week, we talk to Greg about whole-person formation, learning to share our stories well, and looking toward a future full of possibilities. --- Dr. Jones is an author, gifted speaker, media contributor and thought leader in higher education, social innovation and theology. His most recent book, Navigating the Future: Traditioned Innovation for Wilder Seas outlines his perspective on traditioned innovation as "a habit of being and living that cultivates a certain kind of moral imagination shaped by storytelling and expressed in creative, transformational action." To learn more about Dr. Greg Jones, view his profile at LinkedIn or Belmont University.

As a former at-risk foster kid, Shipp found it difficult to trust adults: "The way I defined trustworthiness was: are you gonna not give up on me when I show you what I'm capable of? When I show you all my ugliness and all of my past and everything you didn't cause, but now you're gonna be dealing with…can you handle all of that?" Josh Shipp wants to pass that experience on to as many others as he can, so those adults can care for the kids in the way he needed: "Every kid is one caring adult away from being a success story." This week, we talk to Josh Shipp about how growing up in foster homes and being a counterphobic six has impacted his current work as a global youth empowerment expert. Josh Shipp is an author & youth advocate, and television producer of a documentary TV series on A&E that follows his groundbreaking work with youth and families. He has written two national bestsellers, "The Grown-Up's Guide to Teenage Humans," winner of the Nautilus Gold Award for Parenting & Family – and "The Teen's Guide to World Domination. Episode Links: YouTube Apple Spotify

Two years following his departure from the band, NEEDTOBREATHE, Bo is releasing a candid look at his past with childlike wonder and self-realization under a new name, Coy Roy: "I got into therapy and began to dig into my childhood and why the trajectory of my life took a different path. I left my six-year-old self back there, and we went different places. [Now I'm] recognizing that I'm not going anywhere and that I'm gonna have to face this. I'm gonna have to deal with it." This week, we talk to Bo Rinehart about emotional depth, his ability to bare his soul to his listeners, and what it means to take an honest look at his past while diving head first into his future endeavors. Bo Rinehart is a founding member of the Grammy Nominated band NEEDTOBREATHE. He is also an accomplished visual artist. To learn more about Bo Rinehart follow him on Instagram, check out his artwork at Bo Rinehart Studio and listen to his latest single as Coy Roy, "I'm Right Here". Episode Links: YouTube Apple Spotify

Throughout her 20+ years of teaching, Professor Bonnie Smith Whitehouse, has seen a significant change in her students' ties to religion. "I've seen them completely abandon spirituality because that drug of certainty has just gotten too toxic for them," says Whitehouse. "And so, what is really powerful to me is wonder. It's always been really powerful to me, as an Enneagram 2." This week, we talk to Bonnie Smith Whitehouse about how being an Enneagram 2 has opened her eyes to an alternate posture toward spirituality. — Bonnie Smith Whitehouse, PhD, is a writer and professor who studies storytelling, creativity, contemplation, and wonder. Check out her book, Seasons Of Wonder To learn more about Bonnie Smith Whitehouse, follow her on Instagram, or visit her website.

As the director of adolescent counseling at Daystar Counseling in Nashville, TN, Sissy Goff has seen first-hand how anxious behavior in children has been fueled by unrealistic social expectations. But according to Goff, one way to address that worry in kids is by teaching them self-talk: "I have them give the worry a name, because we all think of the voice in the back of our head as truth until we learn differently. And so to separate it out. I'll call it the worry monster. I have one girl who named her's, Bob. But adolescents come up with their own names. [So they can say] I'm not listening to you. You're always wrong. You always make me feel incapable." This week, we talk to Sissy Goff about how being an Enneagram 1 helps her in her work with young girls. — Sissy Goff, MEd, LPC-MHSP, spends most of her days counseling girls and their families alongside her assistant/pet therapist, Lucy the Havanese. Sissy serves as the director of child and adolescent counseling for Daystar Counseling Ministries(Nashville, TN) where she has worked with girls and their families for more than 25 years. Check out her book, Raising Worry-Free Girls: Helping Your Daughter Feel Braver, Stronger, and Smarter in an Anxious World. To learn more about Sissy Goff, follow her on Instagram, or visit her website.

No matter where we fall on the Enneagram, intentionality is a crucial posture to take into the new year. This week, we model how you can think ahead in the new year by drawing a few questions out of a hat and reflecting on the year to come.

A special offer for our podcast listeners: sign up for the Typology Institute today to get access to all 3 courses and other monthly perks. Go to typologyinstitute.com/workplace and use the code TYPOLOGYPODCAST for 30% savings through the end of 2022 only. The Enneagram is all about self-knowledge, self-reflection and learning about ourselves. We close out the year with today's episode, and talk through some questions that will help us reflect on our year and look back on what we learned.

A special offer for our podcast listeners: sign up for the Typology Institute today to get access to all 3 courses and other monthly perks. Go to typologyinstitute.com/workplace and use the code TYPOLOGYPODCAST for 30% savings through the end of 2022 only. This week, we take a phone call from a friend. Also: the benefits of the Enneagram for those in recovery. Tune in to hear our discussion on these topics, plus a few more. And for a chance to have your questions answered on-air, leave us a comment on social or email us at [email protected].

A special offer for our podcast listeners: sign up for the Typology Institute today to get access to all 3 courses and other monthly perks. Go to typologyinstitute.com/workplace and use the code TYPOLOGYPODCAST for 30% savings through the end of 2022 only. Every month, we record a secret ad-free podcast episode exclusively for Typology Institute Members. This week, we're giving you special access to a conversation between Ian and Anthony about the nature of anxiety and how it relates to the Enneagram. In addition to the Enneagram in the Workplace Course and monthly podcast episodes like this, the Typology Institute Membership includes: A monthly live Town Hall Q&A session with Ian about a specific topic. A monthly newsletter from Ian that shares thoughts around personal development, Enneagram insights, and spiritual formation. The "Hidden Gems of the Enneagram" video series (more video series coming soon).

A special offer for our podcast listeners: sign up for the Typology Institute today to get access to all 3 courses and other monthly perks. Go to typologyinstitute.com/workplace and use the code TYPOLOGYPODCAST for 30% savings through the end of 2022 only. I receive so many questions from our listeners via email and social media that I don't get to respond to them all. But I want you to know I'm paying attention! So, this week, Anthony pulls a few more audience questions for me to answer. I share some thoughts about how "right action" works for an Enneagram 9, the ins and outs of meditation, and how to tell whether you are a 1 or a 5. Tune in to hear our discussion on these topics, plus a few more. And for a chance to have your questions answered on-air, leave us a comment on social or email us at [email protected].

Podcast listeners: sign up for the Typology Institute today to get access to all 3 courses and other monthly perks. Go to typologyinstitute.com/workplace and use the code TYPOLOGYPODCAST for 30% savings through the end of 2022 only. Hey folks! Last week, I shared one of my favorite episodes in which the host of The Andy Stanley Leadership Podcast, founder of North Point Ministries, and author of Better Decisions, Fewer Regrets, Andy Stanley and I talked about how your type makes decisions. This week we continue our conversation and cover how each Enneagram type responds when decisions are made for them that impact their life circumstances.

We're off for Thanksgiving, but while we're gone, I wanted to share one of my favorite conversations I've been a part of about the Enneagram. Make sure to check us out next week for part two! In this episode, The host of The Andy Stanley Leadership Podcast, founder of North Point Ministries, and author of Better Decisions, Fewer Regrets, Andy Stanley takes over as host and interviews me on how each type makes decisions. To learn more about the Enneagram and how to use it in the business world, visit typologyinstitute.com/work/

We've got a special treat for you this week. Every month, we record a secret podcast episode exclusively for Typology Institute Members. But this month, we're letting you listen to one of our favorites, a conversation with Andrew Chapman, psychotherapist and meditation teacher, about the nature of mindfulness and how it relates to the Enneagram. You won't want to miss this deep dive into how transformational mindfulness impacts your daily life. Check out the Typology Institute Membership to access a monthly podcast episode like this, plus: A monthly live Town Hall Q&A session with Ian about a specific topic. A monthly newsletter from Ian that shares thoughts around personal development, Enneagram insights, and spiritual formation. The "Hidden Gems of the Enneagram" video series (more video series coming soon).

Mother & Daughter duo Nancy and Samantha Beach are both leaning into their Enneagram number by tackling one of the most audacious goals possible: addressing the mass exodus from the church, and working to make it more inclusive. As a millennial, Samantha suspects there may be a disconnect within the generations when it comes to messaging: "We're seeing this all across society, all the -isms, right? Racism, sexism, homophobia, all these things. And, I think my friends just wanna know, is the church having these conversations too?" In this episode, we chat about how to create a healthy dialogue between people of different views and age groups, and how working together on that message was the best way to model community for those in the church: "The texture of community is vital. There's something different about confessing sins together…singing together, even learning together in a room side by side. Then there's something about the conversation before and after, that can happen." — Nancy Beach (3w4) serves as a leadership coach with theSlingshot Group and on the teaching team at Soul City Church in downtown Chicago. Previously, Nancy served as the programming director at Willow Creek Community Church in suburban Chicago. She is also the author of An Hour on Sunday and Gifted to Lead. Nancy and her husband Warren have two adult daughters, Samantha and Johanna. Samantha Beach Kiley (3w2) is a writer and performer working at the intersection of art and faith. Samantha's creative work has appeared in theatres, churches, and non-profit spaces. She has taught at Northwestern's National High School Institute and Rocky Mountain Repertory Theatre, where she is the co-education director. She and her family have recently moved to Raleigh, NC where Samantha is associate pastor at Church on Morgan in Raleigh. Check out their new book, Next Sunday: An Honest Dialogue About the Future of the Church. To learn more about Nancy Beach, follow her on Twitter, or visit her website. To learn more about Samantha Beach Kiley, follow her on Twitter, or visit her website.

For years, Irene Rollins lived on auto-pilot. Unaware of just how motivated by shame she was, it took a jolt to wake her up to the fact that she didn't have to live a life characterized by fear and defensiveness. It was an addiction to alcohol, made more severe by the pressures of pastoring a church, that finally woke her up to these bigger problems: "Imagine the weight I was carrying. I still had three kids, the dogs, managing life, and I found myself reintroducing alcohol into my life." From there, things escalated, says Rollins. "My dependency increased over a six year period of time, and I went into a full blown alcohol addiction." In this episode, we explore the nature of addiction and recovery, including the ways in which every one of us struggle with addiction in our own way. — Irene Rollins is passionate about the physical, mental, emotional and spiritual health of all people. As a certified Emotional Intelligence Coach, she loves to study human behavior, which enables her to understand a wide variety of people, guiding them to be the best version of themselves through her teaching, writing and coaching. She founded the ministry of TWO = ONE with her husband Jimmy with a mission to help build strong marriages that result in healthy families that impact our communities for the better. To learn more about Irene Rollins, follow her on Instagram, visit her ministry, TWO = ONE, or check out her new book, Reframe Your Shame: Experience Freedom from What Holds You Back.

As the director of family counseling at Daystar Counseling in Nashville, TN, David Thomas has seen some patterns develop over the years. "Some of the healthiest parents I have worked with over the years are parents in recovery," says David. "Because you've done your work: those basic tenets of 'I understand I have a struggle, I need God, I need community.'" Those are principles that apply for everyone, whether in recovery or not, and they reflect a kind of humble acknowledgement of reality that every parent needs. But there's another way into these concepts: "The other set of parents that I see are the healthiest are those who are using the Enneagram," says David. "You're getting connected with some of those same things. Understanding, 'Here's what the shadow side looks like, Here are my traps, Here are my vulnerabilities." This week, we talk to David Thomas about his own experience dealing with the Enneagram One's inner monologue, how the shadow side comes out in parenting, and how the Enneagram can help us raise emotionally strong boys. — David Thomas, LMSW, is the director of family counseling at Daystar Counseling in Nashville, TN, and the coauthor of ten books, including the bestselling Wild Things: The Art of Nurturing Boys and Are My Kids on Track? He is the co-host of the top 10 parenting podcast "Raising Boys and Girls." To learn more about David Thomas, follow him on Instagram, visit his website, or check out his new book, Raising Emotionally Strong Boys: Tools Your Son Can Build On for Life.

Is motherhood really the hardest job in the world? Is there such a thing as a biological clock? Is motherhood the highest calling? And is it true that you can't truly know love until you're a mother? For Erin Lane, the mythology around motherhood has gotten out of hand. "How did we make motherhood an occupational, performative, identity based measure of worth?" This week, we speak to Erin Lane about these questions, and how being an Enneagram 5 has helped her break out of the scripts our culture gives her for motherhood. --- Erin S. Lane is the author of Someone Other Than a Mother: Flipping the Scripts on a Woman's Purpose and Making Meaning Beyond Motherhood and works as a vocational retreat facilitator. She resides in Raleigh, North Carolina. To learn more about Erin Lane, follow her on Instagram, visit her website, or check out her new book, Someone Other Than a Mother: Flipping the Scripts on a Woman's Purpose and Making Meaning Beyond Motherhood. REGISTER NOW for Dos and Don'ts of the Enneagram with Ian Morgan Cron to get access to the live webinar with Ian on October 26th at 2pm CST.

In addition to breaking ten world records, Colin O'Brady's feats include the world's first solo, unsupported, and fully human-powered crossing of Antarctica, speed records for the Explorers Grand Slam and the Seven Summits, and the first human-powered ocean row across Drake Passage. Would you be surprised to hear he's a three on the Enneagram? But as he grows older, his approach to achieving his goals is changing. "It's not the same burning desire, like deep in my bones," says Colin. Is he losing his "three-ness" or is there something deeper going on here? On this episode of Typology, we explore the ways our approach to goals, and the need to achieve, can evolve over time. — Colin O'Brady is a ten-time world record breaking explorer, speaker, entrepreneur, and expert on mindset. Colin's highly publicized expeditions have been followed by millions and his work has been featured by The New York Times, The Tonight Show, The Joe Rogan Experience, and The Today Show. He is the author of The New York Times bestseller The Impossible First and now The 12-Hour Walk: Invest One Day, Conquer Your Mind, and Unlock Your Best Life (Scribner; August 2nd).

This week, we step bravely into the world of politics, investigating the reasons it feels more divided than ever, and how we can truly listen to one another. Sarah and Beth started discussing these issues from opposite sides of the aisle, and while their positions have changed over time, they still believe in the power of dialoguing with those who disagree. In fact, they see their shifting positions on politics and government as a sign of the value of truly hearing one another out. But listening can be difficult when so many are leading with anger and rage. And those are emotions that signal something deeper beneath the surface than merely strong opinions on policy: "Instead of starting from 'what's wrong with you'," says Sarah, it's better to start with "What happened? How did you get here?" — Sarah Stewart Holland and Beth Silvers host Pantsuit Politics podcast, named by Apple Podcasts as one of the Best Shows of 2021. They are also the authors of Now What? How to Move Forward When We're Divided (About Basically Everything) (2022) and I Think You're Wrong (But I'm Listening): A Guide to Grace-Filled Political Conversation (2019).

When Maud Newton read about the traits of the Enneagram Four, she had to laugh out of pure recognition. "On my mother's side, there was this impulse toward larger than life stories. There wasn't really shame around difficult histories and that sort of thing. The greatest sin was to be boring." Maud's ancestors were anything but boring. In this episode, Maud shares what she's learned about herself through exploring her ancestors' lives, and explains how we're setting ourselves up to repeat our ancestors' trauma and toxic patterns if we aren't able to acknowledge them first. — Maud Newton has written for The New York Times Magazine, Harper's, The New York Times Book Review, and Oxford American. She grew up in Miami and graduated from the University of Florida with degrees in English and law.

Just three weeks shy of their one-year anniversary, the unthinkable happened. Mattie's 28-year-old husband died unexpectedly, leaving her with a massive hole in her life. But being an Enneagram three becomes a double-edged sword in grief: "This compulsion to perform that I have, in whatever I'm doing, was one of my greatest assets in my grief," says Jackson, who adds, "It was also one of the things that I had to be the most careful to keep in check." This week, we hear how she pursued personal growth and balance through her grief, and managed to come out on the other side with hope, ambition, and her love for her former husband intact. Mattie Jackson Selecman is an author, podcaster, speaker, and co-founder NaSHEville, a women's philanthropic apparel brand serving orphans, widows, and victims of human trafficking. To learn more about Mattie, follow her on Instagram, check out her new book, Lemons on Friday, or visit her website.

Grammy-nominated singer-songwriter Mary Gauthier has experienced abandonment from her mother, put herself in positions where she would inevitably be betrayed, come to terms with the power of her anger, and found herself struggling with addiction and alcoholism. But for Mary, so much of that tumult and life experience came from a sense of internal intensity. "The self-destructive and self-constructive forces inside of me," she says, "are both very, very strong." That conflict often can be too much to bear for many. But for Mary, it was songwriting that gave her the space and opportunity to work it all out. In the end, those six decades were time enough for her story to be reframed, rewritten, and even redeemed. To learn more about Mary, follow her on Instagram, check out her new book, Saved by a Song, or visit her website.

Every creative has a dream project: something they'd love to do if they had infinite time and resources. But what if you got the chance to pull off that dream project, and it didn't succeed? That's what happened to Steve Taylor, who poured himself into directing Blue Like Jazz, only to see a middling response at the theater. To him, that result felt like humiliation. This week, we hear about how his experience creating art for a living has changed his approach to success, risk-taking, and his own personal worth. Filmmaker/writer/producer/recording artist/entrepreneur Steve Taylor earned his "Renaissance Man" stripes (Prism Magazine) from a body of work that's garnered him multiple Grammy, Billboard, Telly, Addy, and Dove awards and nominations. As a recording artist, he's sold over one million albums worldwide, garnered two Grammy nominations for Meltdown (1984) and Squint (1993), and made history as the only artist to twice win Billboard Music Video Awards for self-directed music videos. He also fronted the MCA-signed rock band Chagall Guevara.

This week, we're going deep! With the help of the author of The Enneagram for Spiritual Formation, we discuss the various ways the Enneagram can be used narcissistically, and how to avoid those pitfalls. Then, we discuss spiritual bypassing, or the ways each type can end up evading the essential personal work they need to do to grow as an individual. AJ Sherrill (DMin, Fuller Theological Seminary) has more than twenty years of experience as a pastor, including as lead pastor at Mars Hill Bible Church in Grand Rapids, Michigan. He is now lead pastor at St. Peter's Church in Mount Pleasant, South Carolina. He is an adjunct professor at Fuller Theological Seminary, where he teaches popular courses on transformational preaching and the Enneagram. Sherrill leads Enneagram workshops across the country and is the author of The Enneagram for Spiritual Formation and Being with God.

In the span of a few years, Shauna Niequest found herself experiencing a series of changes and heartbreaks that left her feeling like a completely different person. But in the end, she found herself more easily feeling empathy for those who were going through grief themselves. In this episode, Shauna and and I discuss the importance of finding the right geographical place for who you are, the various practices that can help us work through our grief, and how our attempts to outrun grief will always catch up with us. Shauna Niequist is the New York Times bestselling author of Present Over Perfect and I Guess I Haven't Learned That Yet. She is married to Aaron, and they live in New York City with their sons, Henry and Mac. Shauna is a bookworm, a storyteller, and a passionate gatherer of people, especially around the table.

When her husband discovered Julie Solomon's thirty thousand dollars of credit card debt, she became acutely aware of how her narrative about herself had failed her. But that moment also kicked off a mutual journey of growth in her marriage. In this episode, Julie explains how being an Enneagram 3 can be a burden as well as a gift, how growing up in a lower-income household led to a complicated relationship with money, and how being married to an Enneagram 4 taught her not to have all the answers. Julie Solomon is a Speaker, Business Coach, Host of the top rated The Influencer Podcast, and Author of the book, Get What You Want: How to Go From Unseen to Unstoppable (HarperCollins Leadership, June 7, 2022). Get What You Want teaches you how to shake off outdated ideas of what is possible and use your newfound belief to make anything you want happen. Julie has launched several successful online programs including Pitch It Perfect, The Influencer Academy, and SHINE Mastermind, which teach clients how to master the skill sets needed to take a personal brand idea and turn it into a profitable, sustainable. In her weekly podcast, The Influencer Podcast, Julie offers up real-time coaching, straight talk, and conversations to her millions of listeners worldwide.

For Jeanne Stevens, it didn't take long to see herself in her Enneagram type. But it took the experience of facing three deep losses in a short period of time to finally learn how to process—and ultimately let go—of grief, freeing her up to truly live in the present. In today's episode, Jeanne shares how a childhood experience led her to believe a narrative about her life that no longer serves her. She also shares the ways she's learned to live in the present through noticing and naming what's happening around her, asking and answering the all-important question: "What's Here Now?" Jeanne Stevens is the founding and co-lead pastor of Soul City Church in Chicago, one of America's fastest growing urban churches. Prior to starting Soul City Church, Stevens was on the pastoral staff at Willow Creek Community Church and North Point Community Church. A sought-after speaker, leader, and writer, Jeanne's passion is to help people wake up to their purpose as they pursue a life of wholehearted freedom. She lives in Chicago with her husband, Jarrett, and their two children.

Known for exuding energy, joy, and laughter, former Miss Kentucky and three-time contestant of The Amazing Race, Mallory Ervin reveals her fear of being average and how her hunger to achieve publicly resulted in a big wake-up call. In today's episode, we explore her personal story of overcoming the unhealthy and damaging patterns in her life, the turning point that made her go to treatment, and how her time in recovery helped unmask and reveal her true self, allowing her to "live fully." Mallory Ervin is a Kentucky-grown, Nashville-living dreamer who had a roundabout way of arriving at today. From her time in the Miss America pageant to being a three-time contestant on The Amazing Race, Mallory turned her passion for sharing her love of fashion, beauty, and life into a platform for impact. Today she runs a global lifestyle brand she founded in 2016, hosts the Living Fully podcast where she encourages and inspires her dedicated following to seek joy and live fully, and appears across platforms ranging from Instagram to YouTube sharing her life and message of living fully.

What is the life that you want to live? The final step of S.O.A.R. is to rewrite your old story and write a new one that is fulfilling and true to who you are. The goal is to challenge the old, taken for granted, broken beliefs of your old story and lean into what the future looks like. So how do you do that? In today's episode, I'll walk you through a few proactive approaches you can take for lasting transformation. For more exercises, reflection prompts, and guided questions, pick up a copy of The Story of You Workbook.

This week, we're talking about Step 3 of S.O.A.R. and what it means to awaken. We'll explore mindfulness practice, why all of us need to develop this muscle, and we will share a few more tips for rewriting your story. This is just the sort of work I lead you through in my new The Story of You Workbook. Get your copy here.

What has your broken narrative cost you? This week, we're moving on to step 2 of the acronym S.O.A.R. from The Story of You, which is to 'own' your story. I explain what it means to 'own' your story and why this step is essential on your journey toward transformation. For more exercises, reflection prompts, and guided questions that can help you make lasting changes, pick up a copy of The Story of You Workbook.

For the next four weeks, I'm going to walk you through each step of the acronym S.O.A.R. to help you identify and rewrite your origin story. The S.O.A.R. acronym is four simple steps you can begin to journey through in order to relax your grip on the old story and craft a new one. In this episode, I explain the first step of S.O.A.R. which is to 'see' how you became who you are today. In order to narrate a new story, we must first explore and accept our history. I share a few questions to get you started on this journey. For more exercises, reflection prompts, and guided questions that can help you transform your life, check out The Story of You Workbook (available now for pre-order).