The Practice of the Practice Podcast | Where Modern Psychology Meets the Business of Therapy

<p>Joe Sanok talks with Tory Krone and Madeline Larsen about the few practice metrics that actually matter—retention, completed sessions, churn, and revenue per session—and how a simple dashboard turns guesswork into clear decisions about hiring, coaching, and marketing. Practical, no-fluff advice on using data to improve client care, reduce churn, and stabilize revenue.</p> <p>The post <a href="https://practiceofthepractice.com/practice-metrics-that-matter-with-tory-krone-and-madeline-larsen-pop-1249/">Practice Metrics that Matter with Tory Krone and Madeline Larsen | POP 1249</a> appeared first on <a href="https://practiceofthepractice.com">How to Start, Grow, and Scale a Private Practice | Practice of the Practice</a>.</p>

<p>In this episode, Joe Sanok talks with world-record marathoner and animal advocate Fiona Oakes about how passion and purpose fuel resilience. Fiona shares how she overcame major physical setbacks to become the fastest woman to run a marathon on all seven continents and the North Pole, all while running to raise awareness for animal welfare. She discusses the connection between her running and her lifelong commitment to compassion, how training in “dark zones” builds mental toughness, and why keeping purpose at the core of your actions sustains both career and life. Fiona also offers advice for private practitioners on staying adaptable, compassionate, and open to change.</p> <p>The post <a href="https://practiceofthepractice.com/fiona-oakes-holds-the-guinness-world-record-for-being-the-fastest-woman-to-run-a-marathon-on-all-7-continents-pop-1248/">Fiona Oakes Holds the Guinness World Record for Being the Fastest Woman to Run a Marathon on All 7 Continents | POP 1248</a> appeared first on <a href="https://practiceofthepractice.com">How to Start, Grow, and Scale a Private Practice | Practice of the Practice</a>.</p>

<p>What does the U.S. get wrong about wellness? Dr. Megan Lyons argues that real health isn’t about more—it’s about less. In this episode, she explores how modern culture’s obsession with instant gratification pulls us away from true well-being, and why simplicity—of food, lifestyle, and mindset—is often the key. She shares the core pillars of wellness, how to help kids build a healthy relationship with food, and what every private practitioner should keep in mind when navigating tough days. Whether you're a parent, a clinician, or just trying to feel better, this episode offers clear, practical ways to reclaim your health.</p> <p>The post <a href="https://practiceofthepractice.com/what-is-real-wellness-with-dr-megan-lyons-pop-1247/">Why Instant Gratification Is Undermining Your Health – with Dr. Megan Lyon | POP 1247</a> appeared first on <a href="https://practiceofthepractice.com">How to Start, Grow, and Scale a Private Practice | Practice of the Practice</a>.</p>

<p>In this episode, Joe Sanok speaks with NYT bestselling author Lawrence Armstrong about Layered Leadership and the role of creativity in effective leadership. Lawrence shares how drawing inspiration from the world around you, staying curious, and thinking in “synthesized layers” can lead to innovative strategies and solutions.</p> <p>He introduces the concept of “whole-brain thinking,” encouraging leaders to strengthen not only their natural abilities but also areas where they’re less skilled—engaging in continuous learning to become more adaptable. Lawrence stresses the importance of creating collaborative environments where ideas can be freely shared, built upon, and refined, and advises hiring people with expertise beyond your own to strengthen the team’s collective problem-solving power.</p> <p>For private practitioners and business owners, his key message is simple: you’re already a leader—so keep learning, embrace creativity, and apply whole-brain thinking to drive growth and inspire others.</p> <p>The post <a href="https://practiceofthepractice.com/layered-leadership-how-to-lead-creatively-with-nyt-bestselling-author-lawrence-armstrong-pop-1246/">Layered Leadership: How to lead Creatively with NYT Bestselling Author Lawrence Armstrong | POP 1246</a> appeared first on <a href="https://practiceofthepractice.com">How to Start, Grow, and Scale a Private Practice | Practice of the Practice</a>.</p>

<p>In this episode, Joe Sanok interviews Kevin Evers, senior editor at Harvard Business Review and author of There’s Nothing Like This: The Strategic Genius of Taylor Swift. Evers unpacks how Swift’s career offers lessons for therapists—chief among them the value of having a clear vision, maintaining consistency, building trust, and staying fan-focused. Drawing from her early decision to leave a major record label that didn’t share her vision, to her bold switch from country to pop at the height of her success, Swift’s story illustrates the power of strategic risk-taking. Evers encourages private practitioners to apply these principles in their own work: stay aligned with your mission, know your audience, adapt when the time is right, and above all—keep going.</p> <p>The post <a href="https://practiceofthepractice.com/the-strategic-genius-of-taylor-swift-with-hbr-senior-editor-kevin-evers-pop-1245/">The Strategic Genius of Taylor Swift with HBR Senior Editor Kevin Evers | POP 1245</a> appeared first on <a href="https://practiceofthepractice.com">How to Start, Grow, and Scale a Private Practice | Practice of the Practice</a>.</p>

<p>Meet Joe Sanok Joe Sanok helps counselors to create thriving practices that are the envy of other counselors. He has helped counselors to grow their businesses by 50-500% and is […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://practiceofthepractice.com/whats-changing-in-the-brain-ai-brain-computer-interface-and-ketamine-with-dustin-robinson-esq-cpa-pop-1244/">Ketamine, AI, and Brain Health: What Practitioners Need to Know with Dustin Robinson, Esq. CPA | POP 1244</a> appeared first on <a href="https://practiceofthepractice.com">How to Start, Grow, and Scale a Private Practice | Practice of the Practice</a>.</p>

<p>How can we make scientific writing engaging for both experts and everyday readers? Why is focusing on local, collective action the key to real social change? What practical steps can we take to shift cultural patterns and build more just communities?</p> <p>In this podcast episode, Joe Sanok discusses transforming cultural patterns to build more just communities with Nilanjana Dasgupta. </p> <p>The post <a href="https://practiceofthepractice.com/pop-1242-nilanjana-dasgupta/">Creating Just Communities: The Science of Collective Action with Nilanjana Dasgupta | POP 1242</a> appeared first on <a href="https://practiceofthepractice.com">How to Start, Grow, and Scale a Private Practice | Practice of the Practice</a>.</p>

<p>In this episode, Joe Sanok talks with holistic therapist Chris McDonald about the biggest misconceptions around integrating yoga into therapy. They explore how breathwork, mindfulness, and gentle movement can deepen therapeutic outcomes, and Chris shares practical steps for therapists to confidently and ethically bring yoga into their sessions.</p> <p>The post <a href="https://practiceofthepractice.com/chris_mcdonald/">How to Integrate Yoga into Counseling with Chris McDonald | POP 1241</a> appeared first on <a href="https://practiceofthepractice.com">How to Start, Grow, and Scale a Private Practice | Practice of the Practice</a>.</p>

<p>How can therapists help couples gain clarity before deciding to end a relationship? In this episode, Joe Sanok chats with Tarah and E.J. Kerwin, founders of Relationship Renovation, about their unique model for transforming relationships. They discuss how couples can navigate uncertainty, build resilience, and improve communication. Tarah and E.J. also share insights on how therapists can expand their impact nationally through podcasts and courses. Plus, they offer valuable advice for new therapists on building successful, heart-centered practices.</p> <p>The post <a href="https://practiceofthepractice.com/tarah-and-e-j-kerwin-pop-1240/">How to Help Couples Find Clarity in Their Relationships with Tarah and E.J. Kerwin | POP 1240</a> appeared first on <a href="https://practiceofthepractice.com">How to Start, Grow, and Scale a Private Practice | Practice of the Practice</a>.</p>

<p>Tired of trading time for money?<br /> Annie Schuessler shares how therapists can create programs, courses, and retreats to build alternative income streams; without burning out.</p> <p>The post <a href="https://practiceofthepractice.com/how-to-build-a-second-income-stream-through-programs-with-annie-schuessler-pop-1239/">How to Build A Second Income Stream Through Programs with Annie Schuessler | POP 1239</a> appeared first on <a href="https://practiceofthepractice.com">How to Start, Grow, and Scale a Private Practice | Practice of the Practice</a>.</p>

<p>How can intensives help reduce burnout—for you and your clients?<br /> In this episode, Joe Sanok talks with Dr. Adina Silvestri about integrating therapy intensives into private practice. They explore how offering different modalities, including Internal Family Systems (IFS), can reignite clinician excitement and support client transformation.</p> <p>The post <a href="https://practiceofthepractice.com/how-to-host-intensives-with-dr-adina-silvestri-pop-1238/">How to Host Intensives with Dr. Adina Silvestri | POP 1238</a> appeared first on <a href="https://practiceofthepractice.com">How to Start, Grow, and Scale a Private Practice | Practice of the Practice</a>.</p>

<p>Do you avoid conflict with clients, staff, or even yourself?<br /> Harvard’s Bob Bordone shares how therapists can use IFS and simple self-regulation tools to handle conflict with clarity and confidence.</p> <p>The post <a href="https://practiceofthepractice.com/what-every-therapist-should-know-about-conflict-and-disagreement-with-harvards-bob-bordone-pop-1237/">What Every Therapist Should Know About Conflict with Harvard’s Bob Bordone | POP 1237</a> appeared first on <a href="https://practiceofthepractice.com">How to Start, Grow, and Scale a Private Practice | Practice of the Practice</a>.</p>

<p>Are you using Instagram within your marketing strategy? Which golden rules of Instagram can you stick with to get the best results? How can you market yourself and your practice online while maintaining ethical self-disclosure?</p> <p>Therapist and Instagram strategist Kelly McKenna shares what most therapists get wrong on social media, how to navigate ethical self-disclosure, and the golden rules for building a thriving practice online. Learn how to niche down, post with purpose, and attract your ideal clients.</p> <p>The post <a href="https://practiceofthepractice.com/100-of-kelly-mckennas-marketing-is-through-instagram-pop-1236/">100% of Kelly McKenna’s Marketing is Through Instagram | POP 1236</a> appeared first on <a href="https://practiceofthepractice.com">How to Start, Grow, and Scale a Private Practice | Practice of the Practice</a>.</p>

<p>What are the radical possibilities of the human mind and body? How can you take a big risk and stick to it until the end? Why should you remember the body in treatment? In this podcast episode, Joe Sanok speaks with ultramarathon runner Dean Karnazes about cultivating and utilizing a high-performance mindset to achieve and surpass your goals. </p> <p>The post <a href="https://practiceofthepractice.com/50-marathons-50-days-50-states-with-ultramarathonman-dean-karnazes-pop-1235/">50 Marathons, 50 Days, 50 States with Ultramarathonman – Dean Karnazes | POP 1235</a> appeared first on <a href="https://practiceofthepractice.com">How to Start, Grow, and Scale a Private Practice | Practice of the Practice</a>.</p>

<p>What is the key to accelerating marketing growth and success? How can you tap into your audience’s influential subconscious mind with your marketing, rather than trying to convince their instinctive, skeptical mind? Which new rules of marketing should you start using this year?</p> <p>The post <a href="https://practiceofthepractice.com/using-behavioral-science-for-better-marketing-with-leslie-zane-pop-1234/">Old VS New Marketing: What to Ditch & Keep with Leslie Zane | POP 1234</a> appeared first on <a href="https://practiceofthepractice.com">How to Start, Grow, and Scale a Private Practice | Practice of the Practice</a>.</p>

<p>How can social media actually help your private practice grow? Should you focus on cash-pay clients or build a digital brand? And what boundaries keep your business sustainable?</p> <p>In this episode, Joe Sanok talks with therapist and business coach Kelley Stevens about scaling a cash-pay practice, using social media strategically, and setting clear boundaries that prevent burnout.</p> <p>The post <a href="https://practiceofthepractice.com/kelley-stevens-pop-1233/">Two Ways to Use Social Media and Still Keep Your Sanity with Kelley Stevens | POP 1233</a> appeared first on <a href="https://practiceofthepractice.com">How to Start, Grow, and Scale a Private Practice | Practice of the Practice</a>.</p>

<p>What can therapists and business owners learn from ultrarunners about resilience, failure, and pushing through pain?</p> <p>Joe Sanok talks with Karl “Speedgoat” Meltzer—one of the most accomplished ultrarunners in history—about mental strategies for enduring struggle, learning from setbacks, and staying present even when the challenge feels impossible.</p> <p>The post <a href="https://practiceofthepractice.com/karl-meltzer-pop-1232/">2190 Miles: How To Pursue the Unthinkable with Ultramarathon Runner Karl ‘Speedgoat’ Meltzer | POP 1232</a> appeared first on <a href="https://practiceofthepractice.com">How to Start, Grow, and Scale a Private Practice | Practice of the Practice</a>.</p>

<p>How can therapists shift clients from dependency to true empowerment?</p> <p>Joe Sanok talks with Dr. Ann Weiser Cornell about how to help clients build inner strength and self-trust from the very first session. They explore why therapists should act as guides rather than “forever experts,” how small language shifts can deepen a client’s self-awareness, and practical ways to move beyond overthinking into embodied emotional presence.</p> <p>Learn how empowering clients to navigate their own emotional landscapes not only transforms their lives but also reduces therapist burnout.</p> <p>The post <a href="https://practiceofthepractice.com/have-we-lost-the-ability-to-empower-clients-with-dr-ann-weiser-cornell-pop-1231/">Have We Lost the Ability to Empower Clients? with Dr. Ann Weiser Cornell | POP 1231</a> appeared first on <a href="https://practiceofthepractice.com">How to Start, Grow, and Scale a Private Practice | Practice of the Practice</a>.</p>

<p>What are the best practices for integrating mindfulness and customer service in therapy? How can you enhance your therapy by practicing proper emotional hygiene and mindfulness with your client connections? What happens when mindfulness meets customer service?</p> <p>In this podcast episode, Joe Sanok discusses the surprising and important therapy marketing combination of customer service with mindfulness with Dr. Guy Winch. </p> <p>The post <a href="https://practiceofthepractice.com/mindfulness-guy-winch/">Mindfulness: Guy Winch on Rejection, Loneliness & Healing | POP 1230</a> appeared first on <a href="https://practiceofthepractice.com">How to Start, Grow, and Scale a Private Practice | Practice of the Practice</a>.</p>

<p>How do you build up your high-performance mindset? Can transforming pain into purpose be one of the greatest journeys you can go on? How can you shift your mindset around problems, struggle, and pain into appreciating the journey, finding solutions, and being present in the moment?</p> <p>In this podcast episode, Joe Sanok speaks about a high-performance mindset with explorer, Akshay Nanavati.</p> <p>The post <a href="https://practiceofthepractice.com/hpm-akshay-nanavati/">HPM: What a 500-Mile Antarctic Expedition Teaches About Life with Akshay Nanavati | POP 1229</a> appeared first on <a href="https://practiceofthepractice.com">How to Start, Grow, and Scale a Private Practice | Practice of the Practice</a>.</p>

<p>Want to grow your practice through public speaking? Wonder why it’s a strong marketing tool for therapists or how to expand your impact? </p> <p>Joe Sanok talks with Dr. Dan Wendler about moving from book writing to keynotes at Google and Harvard, avoiding DIY marketing mistakes, building referral networks, and starting your speaking journey.</p> <p>The post <a href="https://practiceofthepractice.com/getting-top-keynotes-from-google-and-harvard-with-dr-dan-wendler-pop-1228/">How to Get Top Keynotes from Google and Harvard with Dr. Dan Wendler | POP 1228</a> appeared first on <a href="https://practiceofthepractice.com">How to Start, Grow, and Scale a Private Practice | Practice of the Practice</a>.</p>

<p>Is a toxic relationship making you sick? What are the hidden costs of relational trauma on the body? How does nervous system dysregulation affect health? </p> <p>Joe Sanok talks with Dr. Lissa Rankin about mindfulness, Internal Family Systems, and how relational healing can support physical and emotional recovery.</p> <p>The post <a href="https://practiceofthepractice.com/mindfulness-the-intersection-of-internal-family-systems-and-dysregulation-of-trauma-in-the-body-with-dr-lissa-rankin-md-pop-1227/">Mindfulness: Breaking Trauma Bonds & Healing from Within with Dr. Lissa Rankin, MD | POP 1227</a> appeared first on <a href="https://practiceofthepractice.com">How to Start, Grow, and Scale a Private Practice | Practice of the Practice</a>.</p>

<p>What resilience lessons can you learn from a six-time Ironman champion? How can mindfulness quiet negative self-talk in high-pressure moments? Can you train yourself to analyze instead of judge? </p> <p>Joe Sanok talks with Mark Allen about mindset shifts, mental endurance, and redefining success after setbacks.</p> <p>The post <a href="https://practiceofthepractice.com/hpm-six-time-ironman-champion-mark-allen-on-the-psychology-of-endurance-pop-1226/">HPM: Six-Time Ironman Champion Mark Allen on The Psychology of Endurance | POP 1226</a> appeared first on <a href="https://practiceofthepractice.com">How to Start, Grow, and Scale a Private Practice | Practice of the Practice</a>.</p>

<p>Want to attract more therapy clients? What makes SEO truly effective for therapists? How can you turn your practice from invisible to invincible online? </p> <p>Tom O’Malley and Nicole Arzt discuss timeless SEO best practices, balancing keywords with authentic copy, and creating content that connects you with your ideal clients.</p> <p>The post <a href="https://practiceofthepractice.com/sessionsites-podcast-takeover-therapist-seo-demystified-pop-1225/">SessionSites Podcast Takeover – Therapist SEO, Demystified | POP 1225</a> appeared first on <a href="https://practiceofthepractice.com">How to Start, Grow, and Scale a Private Practice | Practice of the Practice</a>.</p>