The Fourth Way

A huge thanks to Joseph McDade for his generous permission to use his music: https://josephmcdade.com/Thanks to Palmtoptiger17 for the beautiful logo: https://www.instagram.com/palmtoptiger17/Discord Discussion Board: https://disboard.org/server/474580298630430751 The Historic Faith Courses: https://thehistoricfaith.com/The Case Against Abortion: https://thefourthway.transistor.fm/episodes/43-the-case-against-abortion-the-foundational-question Dear Scott, What is this quelled inside me? I cannot really say.It’s certainly not dread, Scott. That came on another day.It feels more like fuzzy warmth. A rashly rationed rationalityStanding partially on reason’s leg, to support desire’s partialityBut of desire, why condemn it so? This, nature’s guide to truth.For survival, reason validates these means and ends that we intuitYet at moments my intuitions falter, as I see my fallible humanityUntil I’m brought back to reason’s side, guided by infallible HumityI’m reminded that man has no plan except that which does play out.Each’s goal, oneself. Nothing else. Even altruism, a selfish route So what is this quelled inside me? I still can’t really say. But damn it, I don’t care to know. I’ll say what I want anyway.And if you care not to agree, I’ll take care not to care.For the winner won’t win on empathy’s plea, but by exerting more force than other can bear.So what do I want for society? Or should I say, what do I want for me? I want no restraints that impede my class. I want the power to be beyond freeI want to restrict those who are far removed from me. I want to remove their ability to impede.And as the Humian that I truly am, I’ll strip away their humanityIf those in my way are no longer like me, then there’s no person to consider – Like all obstacles that come before me, I discard them as rubbish, refuse, litter.But to throw things away seems so absurd. Nothing but cavalier waste.For it’s not only meat that gives utility, but also bone, sinew, hair, carapace. So what of this class that’s so unlike me? Those without presence, no cries? While too burdensome it is to provide their support, surely them we can still utilizeWe need not mandate that others preserve these lives, if the voiceless become hindrance, In order to punish some for taking same life, though really punishing for inconvenienceWe also need not apply personhood to this group, these dejected who are so like usTo subjectively choose some objective ground to define humanity so it includes usSo if I have right to take this life, then this life is mine to own.But since this my life can’t speak on its own, why not give its owners their vote?I propose that we count all voiceless at hand as three fifths woman and man,To keep them inhuman, yet still useful to me, as I further my narcicized plan. So what is this quelled inside me? I finally think that I can say.It’s certainly not dread, Scott. But it’s just as inhumane. Sincerely, NatashaYuri The title is a reference to the Missouri Compromise. Basically, it was a compromise whereby the United States allowed Missouri to enter the Union as a slave state, despite relatively strong objections, and a notion in some that it just wasn’t right. Throughout this poem I will be making many slavery references, in hopes that I can parallel it to the abortion issue. Speaking to the abortion issue, the first line of the poem alludes to the major question that must be asked in the abortion debate: “what is inside the mother?” This is the second reference to slavery, in the case of Dred Scott. Scott was a slave who sued for his freedom on the grounds that he should be considered a citizen, or at least a free man. This was not only due to his “inalienable” rights as a human being, but the government’s own laws. At one time, Scott’s owner traveled with Scott through free territory, where by law, Scott was a human being with rights. So even on the government’s own grounds, they were hypocrites. In regard to abortion, we end up asking a similar question of humanity. What is inside the mother? Here, she admits that she does not know. I liked the play on words at the end here, but I also think it describes well the stupidity and gutlessness of the lack of a stand for morality against slavery. People thought through things very rashly. Instead of thinking about the big picture for the nation, they did what was going to get them through the moment. And while compromises were made, people rationalized their reasoning in an attempt to justify themselves. Playing off number four, it seems as though people leaned on the voice of reason as their pillar of foundation, as their desires were shortsighted. They want their generation to be at peace in the land, even if it means war within morally. Slavery was not affecting the majority group – the group in power. There wasn’t much of an incentive to take slavery away, as it was very lucrative and not hurting those who mattered (WASPs who owned land). Desire won out over moral reason and long-ter

A wonderful resource and a classic you must read in regard to the SOTM is Dallas Willard's "The Divine Conspiracy." Willard excoriates modern Christianity and our easy believism and refusal to emphasize works, but he also does a great job doing what I failed to do in my consequentialism series until the Bonhoeffer episodes, which is to make clear that following Jesus leads us to right actions, it is not right actions of themselves which we are seeking. I would take exception with Willard on two parts, however. The first is that Willard seems to view some of the SOTM (especially the beatitudes) with a more eschatological lens. While he definitely emphasizes that the Kingdom is now, there are moments where I feel like he overspiritualizes it into two distinct kingdoms (the spiritual and the human/physical) rather than integrating the two kingdoms, though he certainly does this much less than most other Evangelicals.The second area I'd push back on is Willard's dismissal of the Beatitudes as prescriptive. While I do agree with him that at least some are not prescriptive in the sense that we should go out and seek them (e.g. seeking persecution and trying to get killed for your faith is not good), I think they are semi-prescriptive in an indicative sense. What I mean by that is I don't think we seek persecution, but I think that when we truly seek and follow Jesus, our lives are the type which will almost certainly bring some level of persecution. Most, if not all of the other beatitudes fall in that same vein. If we are humble we will likely be meek and poor in spirit. If we hold our resources with an open hand because we recognize they are God's and don't worry about tomorrow, we'll likely have a difficult life. And Jesus told us that the gospel will bring division in families. So we will be a people who have much opportunity to mourn. In that sense, I think the life which is prescriptive, if followed, tends to lead towards the Beatitudes, while some of those things are not meant to be sought in and of themselves. https://www.amazon.com/Divine-Conspiracy-first-Text-Only/dp/B004TJWC7M/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2TKRZIONHZRVE&dchild=1&keywords=the+divine+conspiracy+by+dallas+willard&qid=1587258908&s=audible&sprefix=the+divine+conspiracy%2Caudible%2C178&sr=1-2-catcorrA huge thanks to Joseph McDade for his generous permission to use his music: https://josephmcdade.com/Thanks to Palmtoptiger17 for the beautiful logo: https://www.instagram.com/palmtoptiger17/Discord Discussion Board: https://disboard.org/server/474580298630430751 The Historic Faith Courses: https://thehistoricfaith.com/Tolstoy's "What I Believe:" https://www.amazon.com/Spiritual-Works-Leo-Tolstoy-Correspondences-ebook/dp/B01DY83DC6/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=tolstoy+what+i+believe&qid=1585870266&sr=8-6My Sonnet Compilation: https://www.amazon.com/My-First-Sonnets-J-G-Elliot-ebook/dp/B01LXXIIQN/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=my+first+sonnets&qid=1585870352&sr=8-2Richard Rohr's "Sermon on the Mount": https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003A0IASQ/ref=cm_sw_r_em_api_uOXEFbGCN7ASQDallas Willard's "The Divine Conspiracy": https://www.amazon.com/Divine-Conspiracy-Rediscovering-Hidden-Life/dp/0007596545/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=dallas+willard+divine+conspiracy&qid=1601907374&sr=8-1 Thanks to our monthly supporters J Phillip Mast Laverne Miller Jesse Killion ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

A huge thanks to Joseph McDade for his generous permission to use his music: https://josephmcdade.com/Thanks to Palmtoptiger17 for the beautiful logo: https://www.instagram.com/palmtoptiger17/Discord Discussion Board: https://disboard.org/server/474580298630430751 The Historic Faith Courses: https://thehistoricfaith.com/ Thanks to our monthly supporters J Phillip Mast Laverne Miller Jesse Killion ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

A huge thanks to Joseph McDade for his generous permission to use his music: https://josephmcdade.com/Thanks to Palmtoptiger17 for the beautiful logo: https://www.instagram.com/palmtoptiger17/Discord Discussion Board: https://disboard.org/server/474580298630430751 The Historic Faith Courses: https://thehistoricfaith.com/John Wesley's Arguments Against the Revolution: https://www.consource.org/document/a-calm-address-to-our-american-colonies-by-john-wesley-1775/The Historic Faith Courses (particularly "The Myth of Christian America"): https://thehistoricfaith.com/The Myth of a Christian Nation: https://www.amazon.com/Myth-Christian-Nation-Political-Destroying/dp/0310267315/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=myth+of+a+christian+nation&qid=1596814955&s=books&sr=1-1Thanksgiving and Genocide: https://www.rivalnations.org/thanksgiving-genocide/Farewell to Mars: https://www.amazon.com/Farewell-Mars-Evangelical-Pastors-Biblical-ebook/dp/B00I65455C/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=farewell+to+mars&qid=1596814981&sr=8-1Legacy of Ashes: https://www.amazon.com/Legacy-of-Ashes-The-History-of-the-CIA/dp/0307389006/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_rvw_txt?ie=UTF8America Invades: The Controversial Story of How We've Invaded or Been Militarily Involved with Almost Every Country on Earth: https://www.amazon.com/America-Invades-Controversial-Militarily-Involved-ebook/dp/B00R1ZXKMW/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=America+invades&qid=1596814737&sr=8-1 Thanks to our monthly supporters J Phillip Mast Laverne Miller Jesse Killion ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

A huge thanks to Joseph McDade for his generous permission to use his music: https://josephmcdade.com/Thanks to Palmtoptiger17 for the beautiful logo: https://www.instagram.com/palmtoptiger17/Discord Discussion Board: https://disboard.org/server/474580298630430751 The Historic Faith Courses: https://thehistoricfaith.com/Anatomy of a Hybrid: https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0802816150/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=anatomy+of+a+hybrid&qid=1578024564&sr=8-1Dan Carlin on torture and violence: https://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-61-blitz-painfotainment/Chomsky on Religion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=SNDG7ErY-k4&feature=emb_logoChomsky "Why They Hate the West:" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7HqfqtlueI&t=156sChomsky "How to Create a Terrorist:" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=708pvp0E9dI Thanks to our monthly supporters J Phillip Mast Laverne Miller Jesse Killion ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

A huge thanks to Joseph McDade for his generous permission to use his music: https://josephmcdade.com/Thanks to Palmtoptiger17 for the beautiful logo: https://www.instagram.com/palmtoptiger17/Discord Discussion Board: https://disboard.org/server/474580298630430751 The Historic Faith Courses: https://thehistoricfaith.com/Anatomy of a Hybrid: https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0802816150/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=anatomy+of+a+hybrid&qid=1578024564&sr=8-1Dan Carlin on torture and violence: https://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-61-blitz-painfotainment/13th Amendment Film: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/13th_(film)Westminster Confession change to article 23: https://www.opc.org/documents/WCF_orig.htmlBelgic Confession Article 36: https://www.crcna.org/welcome/beliefs/confessions/belgic-confessionLynching of Jesse Washington: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynching_of_Jesse_WashingtonJustice Department Lawyer defends inhumane treatment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzZwca4rEWc&feature=youtu.be Thanks to our monthly supporters J Phillip Mast Laverne Miller Jesse Killion ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

A huge thanks to Joseph McDade for his generous permission to use his music: https://josephmcdade.com/Thanks to Palmtoptiger17 for the beautiful logo: https://www.instagram.com/palmtoptiger17/Discord Discussion Board: https://disboard.org/server/474580298630430751 The Historic Faith Courses: https://thehistoricfaith.com/What Would You Do?: https://www.amazon.com/What-Would-John-Howard-Yoder/dp/0836136039/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=what+would+you+do+yoder&qid=1578024472&sr=8-3Victories Without Violence: https://www.amazon.com/Victories-Without-Violence-Ruth-Fry/dp/0943734061/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=victories+without+violence&qid=1578024466&sr=8-1 Thanks to our monthly supporters J Phillip Mast Laverne Miller Jesse Killion ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

A huge thanks to Joseph McDade for his generous permission to use his music: https://josephmcdade.com/Thanks to Palmtoptiger17 for the beautiful logo: https://www.instagram.com/palmtoptiger17/Discord Discussion Board: https://disboard.org/server/474580298630430751 The Historic Faith Courses: https://thehistoricfaith.com/ Thanks to our monthly supporters J Phillip Mast Laverne Miller Jesse Killion ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

A huge thanks to Joseph McDade for his generous permission to use his music: https://josephmcdade.com/Thanks to Palmtoptiger17 for the beautiful logo: https://www.instagram.com/palmtoptiger17/Discord Discussion Board: https://disboard.org/server/474580298630430751 The Historic Faith Courses: https://thehistoricfaith.com/PCA Position paper on nuclear weapons: https://web.archive.org/web/20190303185338/http://www.pcahistory.org/pca/1-439.pdfWhy Civil Resistance Works: https://cup.columbia.edu/book/why-civil-resistance-works/9780231156820Gene Sharp: https://www.amazon.com/Gene-Sharp/s?k=Gene+SharpGun behind every blade of grass: Apparently not verifiable. That being said, I think the point of the statement stands. With as armed as the citizenry of the U.S. is, certainly that would be a factor an invading force would consider. https://www.factcheck.org/2009/05/misquoting-yamamoto/City of Refuge Podcast: https://wagingnonviolence.org/podcast/ Thanks to our monthly supporters J Phillip Mast Laverne Miller Jesse Killion ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

A huge thanks to Joseph McDade for his generous permission to use his music: https://josephmcdade.com/Thanks to Palmtoptiger17 for the beautiful logo: https://www.instagram.com/palmtoptiger17/Discord Discussion Board: https://disboard.org/server/474580298630430751 The Historic Faith Courses: https://thehistoricfaith.com/Christian Attitudes to War, Peace, and Revolution: https://www.amazon.com/Christian-Attitudes-War-Peace-Revolution/dp/1587432315/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=war+peace+and+revolution+yoder&qid=1584391613&sr=8-2Hauerwas on the "Sacrifices of War and the Sacrifice of Christ:" https://www.abc.net.au/religion/the-sacrifices-of-war-and-the-sacrifice-of-christ/10098368War and the American Difference: https://www.amazon.com/War-American-Difference-Theological-Reflections/dp/0801039290 Thanks to our monthly supporters J Phillip Mast Laverne Miller Jesse Killion ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

A huge thanks to Joseph McDade for his generous permission to use his music: https://josephmcdade.com/Thanks to Palmtoptiger17 for the beautiful logo: https://www.instagram.com/palmtoptiger17/Discord Discussion Board: https://disboard.org/server/474580298630430751 Christian Attitudes to War, Peace, and Revolution: https://www.amazon.com/Christian-Attitudes-War-Peace-Revolution/dp/1587432315/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=war+peace+and+revolution+yoder&qid=1584391613&sr=8-2War is a Racket: https://www.amazon.com/War-Racket-Original-Smedley-Butler/dp/1939438586/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=war+is+a+racket&qid=1576982864&sr=8-1 Thanks to our monthly supporters J Phillip Mast Laverne Miller Jesse Killion ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

A huge thanks to Joseph McDade for his generous permission to use his music: https://josephmcdade.com/Thanks to Palmtoptiger17 for the beautiful logo: https://www.instagram.com/palmtoptiger17/Discord Discussion Board: https://disboard.org/server/474580298630430751 Discord Discussion Board: https://disboard.org/server/474580298630430751 Christian Attitudes to War, Peace, and Revolution: https://www.amazon.com/Christian-Attitudes-War-Peace-Revolution/dp/1587432315/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=war+peace+and+revolution+yoder&qid=1584391613&sr=8-2 Thanks to our monthly supporters J Phillip Mast Laverne Miller Jesse Killion ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

A huge thanks to Joseph McDade for his generous permission to use his music: https://josephmcdade.com/Thanks to Palmtoptiger17 for the beautiful logo: https://www.instagram.com/palmtoptiger17/Discord Discussion Board: https://disboard.org/server/474580298630430751 Christian Attitudes to War, Peace, and Revolution: https://www.amazon.com/Christian-Attitudes-War-Peace-Revolution/dp/1587432315/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=war+peace+and+revolution+yoder&qid=1584391613&sr=8-2-----George Cannon, predecessor of the Truman Doctrine, in a memo (1948): https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Memo_PPS23_by_George_Kennan"Furthermore, we have about 50% of the world's wealth but only 6.3% of its population. This disparity is particularly great as between ourselves and the peoples of Asia. In this situation, we cannot fail to be the object of envy and resentment. Our real task in the coming period is to devise a pattern of relationships which will permit us to maintain this position of disparity without positive detriment to our national security. To do so, we will have to dispense with all sentimentality and day-dreaming; and our attention will have to be concentrated everywhere on our immediate national objectives. We need not deceive ourselves that we can afford today the luxury of altruism and world-benefaction."Scene On Radio's episode on the American Empire: http://www.sceneonradio.org/s4-e9-american-empire/Bible Project Revelation 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nvVVcYD-0wA book looking at all of the major American wars: https://amishcountrygoods.com/product/christianity-war-and-americas-salvation-story/America Invades: The Controversial Story of How We've Invaded or Been Militarily Involved with Almost Every Country on Earth: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00R1ZXKMW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_d_asin_title_o06?ie=UTF8&psc=1Behind the Bastards Podcast on Soleimani (explicit language): https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/behind-the-bastards/id1373812661?i=1000461883289War is a Racket: https://www.amazon.com/War-Racket-Antiwar-Americas-Decorated-ebook/dp/B00E25IYES/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=war+is+a+racket&qid=1592924412&s=digital-text&sr=1-1 Only 3 Countries in which the U.S. hasn't had boots on the ground, and only 2 with which we've had no military dealings whatsoever: https://www.wearethemighty.com/articles/these-are-the-only-3-countries-america-hasnt-invadedAmerica's assassination in the Congo: https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/poverty-matters/2011/jan/17/patrice-lumumba-50th-anniversary-assassinationTuskegee Experiment: https://www.history.com/news/the-infamous-40-year-tuskegee-studyForced Eugenics of Minorities: https://today.duke.edu/2020/07/new-paper-examines-disproportionate-effect-eugenics-nc%E2%80%99s-black-populationJesse Washington: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiyQFG6uHggTorture and Burning of Henry Smith: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Smith_(lynching_victim)Dan Carlin on torture: https://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-61-blitz-painfotainment/Mcnamara's Folly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J2VwFDV4-g&t=1sPhilippine Genocide: https://britsinthephilippines.top/philippines-genocide-3-million-filipinos-killed/Children in the Civil Right's Movement: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCxE6i_SzoQOta Benga: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaKgDugiQh4Zinned Project on obscured history: https://www.zinnedproject.org/if-we-knew-our-history/Chomsky on Haiti: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVVRoWxFB1s&t=2698sChomsky on U.S. Imperialism: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PdJ9TAdTdA&t=1028sTrail of Tears: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SosZ2ZRJymUBuck vs. Bell Forced Sterilization: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZQkCSuXZ0UAmerica Invades: How We've Invaded or been Militarily Involved with almost Every Country on Earth https://www.amazon.com/dp/1940598427/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_Vi9-EbD56NCZMForced Sterilization Interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3_c9pZ4SKcForced Sterilization of Immigrants in 2020: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/14/ice-detainees-hysterectomies-medical-neglect-irwin-georgiaThe Civil War as a Theological Crisis [An interesting read by Evangelical Protestant Mark Noll. He writes many history accounts you can read, but this one in particular helped me to understand how we developed to the point we are now and how some of our idols have been fashioned and maintained.]: https://www.amazon.com/Theological-Crisis-Steven-Janice-Lectures-ebook/dp/B00W1W601S/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=mark+noll&qid=1586187452&sr=8-3Cornel West's "Democracy Matters:" https://www.amazon.com/Democracy-Matters-Winning-Against-Imperialism/dp/B0009JON0U/ref=sr_1_1?d...

A huge thanks to Joseph McDade for his generous permission to use his music: https://josephmcdade.com/Thanks to Palmtoptiger17 for the beautiful logo: https://www.instagram.com/palmtoptiger17/Discord Discussion Board: https://disboard.org/server/474580298630430751 The Historic Faith Courses: https://thehistoricfaith.com/Christian Attitudes to War, Peace, and Revolution: https://www.amazon.com/Christian-Attitudes-War-Peace-Revolution/dp/1587432315/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=war+peace+and+revolution+yoder&qid=1584391613&sr=8-2Killing from the Inside Out: https://www.amazon.com/Killing-Inside-Out-Moral-Injury-ebook/dp/B00NVN93EM/ref=sr_1_1?crid=9DXPV3KT88QB&keywords=killing+from+the+inside+out+moral+injury+and+just+war&qid=1576704840&sprefix=killing+from+the+in%2Caps%2C283&sr=8-1The War Prayer by Mark Twain: https://warprayer.org/It was brought to my attention after this episode was created that there are only 3-5 countries (depending on how you count them) which were not controlled in at least some part by European Christendom (Thailand, Japan, Korea, and Liberia). But even the states which weren't controlled were heavily influenced, and largely uncontested due to their value as either a place to dump baggage (Liberia - slaves you didn't want to become citizens) or use as a buffer against other countries (Thailand). https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2014/6/24/5835320/map-in-the-whole-world-only-these-five-countries-escaped-european Thanks to our monthly supporters J Phillip Mast Laverne Miller Jesse Killion ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

A huge thanks to Joseph McDade for his generous permission to use his music: https://josephmcdade.com/Thanks to Palmtoptiger17 for the beautiful logo: https://www.instagram.com/palmtoptiger17/Discord Discussion Board: https://disboard.org/server/474580298630430751 --------(Article discussed in this episode) An Open Letter to Christians Condoning Violence: https://freethinkingministries.com/an-open-letter-to-christians-condoning-violence/Episode 7: Is Nonviolence Evil by Refusing to Do Good? https://thefourthway.transistor.fm/episodes/rebuttal-evil-in-refusing-to-do-goodRomans 13 Part 2: The Practical: https://thefourthway.transistor.fm/episodes/rebuttal-romans-13-part-2Episode 19: What Would You Do to Protect Your Family (Part 1)? https://thefourthway.transistor.fm/episodes/rebuttal-would-you-really-allow-an-intruder-to-harm-your-familyEpisode 20: What Would You Do to Protect Your Family (Part 2)? https://thefourthway.transistor.fm/episodes/episode-19-rebuttal-would-you-really-allow-an-intruder-to-harm-your-family-part-2-the-practicalBonhoeffer Episode 1: https://thefourthway.transistor.fm/episodes/se3-bonhoefferBonhoeffer Episode 2: https://thefourthway.transistor.fm/episodes/47-se5-bonhoeffer-pacifist-or-assassin Thanks to our monthly supporters J Phillip Mast Laverne Miller Jesse Killion ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

**Part of what makes this topic difficult is its changing statistics. For instance, there are many years in which "whites" count hispanics, thought that changes throughout the years. Another thing I want to point out is that due to proportions, it needs to be made clear that minorities do face a disproportionate number of abortions. The text below is from 1997 as just one example. I am not at all arguing that whites have had less of a problem with abortion proportionally, but that the general trend for whites is downward, while the trend for minorities is relatively static as far as it can be told from the data the CDC provides. A great look at this can be seen in the following site ( http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/usa_abortion_by_race.html ), where the 2nd graph is of the most importance (abortions by race/ethnicity). What you will see is that the white abortions drop significantly, while the minority abortions do increase for a time, but then are largely level. Considering that the white population did not fall that much, while the minority population did increase, it seems fair to conclude that the white drop is disproportionate to the population drop. Obviously you can look at various facets of the data, and it's a complex task. Hopefully I've been fair and accurate in this one focused assessment, but please do your own legwork and follow that up. FROM: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/67/ss/ss6713a1.htmAmong women whose race was reported (from 39 reporting areas), approximately 56% of women who obtained legal induced abortions were white (Table 9). The abortion ratio for black women was 543 per 1,000 live births, 2.8 times the ratio for white women (194 per 1,000 live births). However, numbers of abortions for white women include data for Hispanics and thus might affect comparisons from state to state. The abortion ratio for women of other races (341 per 1,000 live births) was 1.8 times the ratio for white women. In addition, the abortion rate for black women (32 per 1,000 women) was 2.9 times the rate for white women (11 per 1,000 women).------------A huge thanks to Joseph McDade for his generous permission to use his music: https://josephmcdade.com/Thanks to Palmtoptiger17 for the beautiful logo: https://www.instagram.com/palmtoptiger17/Discord Discussion Board: https://disboard.org/server/474580298630430751 -----------My article on the double standard and slectivity of conservative, moral legislation: https://www.dckreider.com/blog-theological-musings/economic-pornography-and-pet-sinsJerry Falwell's Mask: https://www.wsls.com/news/local/2020/05/27/libertys-jerry-falwell-designs-his-own-mask-using-ralph-northam-yearbook-blackface-photo/?outputType=ampSex Partners and Activity: https://ifstudies.org/blog/nine-decades-of-promiscuityTrend of Poverty and Adoption: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/09/us/abortion-access-inequality.htmlAbortion Rate by Country: https://bedbible.com/abortion-statistics/ https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/abortion-rates-by-country/Adoption Stats in the U.S.: https://ifstudies.org/blog/the-changing-face-of-adoption-in-the-united-statesCDC Abortion Stats: https://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/data_stats/index.htmAbortion and Race Trends: http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/usa_abortion_by_race.htmlPhil Vischer on abortion causes and cures: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvWD7ykNjCc&feature=youtu.be Thanks to our monthly supporters J Phillip Mast Laverne Miller Jesse Killion ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

A huge thanks to Joseph McDade for his generous permission to use his music: https://josephmcdade.com/Thanks to Palmtoptiger17 for the beautiful logo: https://www.instagram.com/palmtoptiger17/Discord Discussion Board: https://disboard.org/server/474580298630430751 ***For an alternative perspective on the rise of the abortion issue among conservative Evangelicals, check out the following article. While I think the author makes some good points and helps to balance a true, growing concern for abortion, I think the race issue is clearly the catalyst. So while I disagree with the morality of abortion now, the reason the issue was shot to prominence so quickly seems to be as a result of racism. It's hard to explain the seismic shift in worldviews about the personhood of fetuses without a motivator, as I argue in the episode. Nevertheless, decide for yourself: https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/p/fact-and-fiction-about-racism-and . You can also find a version from the Gospel Coalition here: https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/evangelical-history/christian-right-discovered-abortion-rights-transformed-culture-wars/Lee Atwater's famous quote about Republican and Religious Right implications and understanding in politics: https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/exclusive-lee-atwaters-infamous-1981-interview-southern-strategy/You start out in 1954 by saying, “Nigger, nigger, nigger.” By 1968 you can’t say “nigger”—that hurts you, backfires. So you say stuff like, uh, forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff, and you’re getting so abstract. Now, you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites.… “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, uh, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “Nigger, nigger.”The 1971 SBC Resolution on Abortion: http://www.sbc.net/resolutions/13/resolution-on-abortion Brief explanation of the origins of the anti-abortion movement in Evangelicalism: https://www.npr.org/2019/06/20/734303135/throughline-traces-evangelicals-history-on-the-abortion-issue Detailed article about the origins of the anti-abortion movement in Evangelicalism: https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/05/religious-right-real-origins-107133The Color of Compromise: https://www.amazon.com/Color-Compromise-American-Churchs-Complicity/dp/0310113601/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=the+color+of+compromise&qid=1591475569&sr=8-1The Evangelicals: The Struggle to Shape America: This resource is a very deep overview of the history of Evangelicalism and the Religious Right. It helps paint a picture of how we got to where we are and the compromisedOne Nation Under God: https://www.amazon.com/One-Nation-Under-God-Corporate/dp/0465097413/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=one+nation+under+god&qid=1591475623&sr=8-1Revolution of Values: is a great look at the history of modern Evangelicalism and the racist roots of the Religious Right from the perspective of a long-time Southern Baptist, and one who served the Republican party under Strom Thurmond: https://www.amazon.com/Revolution-Values-Reclaiming-Public-Common/dp/0830845933/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=jonathan+hartgrove&qid=1591475669&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExUVZOQlVWQUhGSklOJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMzM5MzgxTTU5SDBXSURKRlVOJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTAxMzY3NDRTQzhRWTU0Njk5NFEmd2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGYmYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVlA good summary of the rise in anti-abortion sentiment: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/how-evangelicals-decided-that-life-begins-at-conception_b_2072716?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuYmluZy5jb20vc2VhcmNoP3E9RXZhbmdlbGljYWwrYWJvcnRpb24rbW92ZW1lbnQmZm9ybT1BUElQSDEmUEM9QVBQTA&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAFK1r-ntO2NVaghH4hLP_lW3elDj6xvvJiThE7fIQ8JGqyHT_JdoYoUqFlPH78UZokykrlr4reUpQt3VYpWDtlj0N29jhWoGUq3oSH55qWnPELjR8dRMsBxOO1j6-5MZSqJJNxsFsm7VVjo0iwKcM5MLr8hhHWSacvgWAClJodGRScene on Radio Podcast: http://www.sceneonradio.org/s4-e8-the-second-redemption/Behind the Bastards on Jerry Falwell (explicit language): This is a three part series which is good at helping not only to paint a picture of ulterior motives in the abortion issue, but in seeing the political and business problems inherent in the religious right. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/behind-the-bastards/id1373812661?i=1000458529023 Bob Jones Finally Drops Interracial Dating Policy in the Year 2000: https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2000/marchweb-only/53.0.htmlFormer SBC President W.A. Criswell (1973): "I have always felt that it was only after a child was born and had a life separate from its mother that it became an individual person, and it has always, therefore, seemed to me that what is best for the mother and for the future should be allowed." W. Barry Garrett (1973): "Religious liberty, human equality and justice are advanced by the [Roe v.

A huge thanks to Joseph McDade for his generous permission to use his music: https://josephmcdade.com/Thanks to Palmtoptiger17 for the beautiful logo: https://www.instagram.com/palmtoptiger17/Discord Discussion Board: https://disboard.org/server/474580298630430751 1-1-1 Project: http://www.111project.org/careportal/Early Church Quotes: https://www.dckreider.com/blog-theological-musings/arguments-for-christian-pacifism-4-teaching-of-the-early-churchThe Dropbox Film: https://dropbox.focusonthefamily.ca/ Thanks to our monthly supporters J Phillip Mast Laverne Miller Jesse Killion ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

A huge thanks to Joseph McDade for his generous permission to use his music: https://josephmcdade.com/Thanks to Palmtoptiger17 for the beautiful logo: https://www.instagram.com/palmtoptiger17/Discord Discussion Board: https://disboard.org/server/474580298630430751 The 80% (My Book): https://www.amazon.com/80-Conservative-Evangelicals-Prove-Relativists-ebook/dp/B07RDPW2NZ/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=j.g.+elliot&qid=1573560697&sr=8-1Compilation of peer-reviewed and other literature on ectopic pregnancies: http://www.personhoodinitiative.com/ectopic-personhood.htmlSuccessful transplant of an ectopic pregnancy example: https://www.ajog.org/article/0002-9378%2890%2990794-8/pdfMisdiagnosed ectopic pregnancies: https://www.wbur.org/commonhealth/2013/10/11/ectopic-pregnancy-misdiagnosed-methotrexateBrief summary of anti-abortion in ectopic pregnancy position: https://www.clmagazine.org/topic/medicine-science/does-an-ectopic-pregnancy-justify-intentionally-killing-the-baby/Many disorders are misdiagnosed: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/01/upshot/pregnancy-birth-genetic-testing.html?fbclid=IwAR18I7kdcavsxDF6RBqs8Y2sAjkQdBZAwKT3YId1PPgCHWxFyGBUYISvy8w Thanks to our monthly supporters J Phillip Mast Laverne Miller Jesse Killion ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

A huge thanks to Joseph McDade for his generous permission to use his music: https://josephmcdade.com/Thanks to Palmtoptiger17 for the beautiful logo: https://www.instagram.com/palmtoptiger17/Discord Discussion Board: https://disboard.org/server/474580298630430751 The 80% (My Book): https://www.amazon.com/80-Conservative-Evangelicals-Prove-Relativists-ebook/dp/B07RDPW2NZ/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=j.g.+elliot&qid=1573560697&sr=8-1Links to various studies and data mentioned in the episode can be found in my written version of this issue here: https://www.dckreider.com/blog-theological-musings/abortion-counterrebuttal-patriarchal-bias Thanks to our monthly supporters J Phillip Mast Laverne Miller Jesse Killion ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

A huge thanks to Joseph McDade for his generous permission to use his music: https://josephmcdade.com/Thanks to Palmtoptiger17 for the beautiful logo: https://www.instagram.com/palmtoptiger17/Discord Discussion Board: https://disboard.org/server/474580298630430751 The Sacrifices of War and the Sacrifice of Christ: https://www.abc.net.au/religion/the-sacrifices-of-war-and-the-sacrifice-of-christ/10098368Chomsky: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRbnPA3fd5U&t=376sKilling From the Inside Out: https://www.amazon.com/Killing-Inside-Out-Moral-Injury-ebook/dp/B00NVN93EM/ref=sr_1_1?crid=R9KWYOKIFBHB&keywords=killing+from+the+inside+out+moral+injury+and+just+war&qid=1579144348&sprefix=killing+from%2Caps%2C189&sr=8-1War and Moral Injury: https://www.amazon.com/Moral-Injury-Robert-Emmet-Meagher-ebook/dp/B07CFW2S3G/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3ML8UZ5LHM913&keywords=war+and+moral+injury&qid=1579144321&sprefix=war+and+moral+inju%2Caps%2C211&sr=8-1On Killing: https://www.amazon.com/Killing-Psychological-Cost-Learning-Society-ebook/dp/B00J90F8W2/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2RHR2TOPIB06N&keywords=on+killing+by+dave+grossman&qid=1579144334&sprefix=on+killin%2Caps%2C370&sr=8-1While the following quote was pieced together from soldier testimony to make the famous speech from the movie "Patton," it is widely attributed to General Patton: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCA6uxQE-bw&t=200s No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making some other poor dumb bastard die for his country.John Howard Yoder from "Christian Attitudes to War, Peace, and Revolution:" A crusade does not have to be winnable. Those who died in a crusade go straight to heaven. In the Middle Ages, dying in a crusade was the only way to get straight to heaven. In a crusade, death is not considered a necessary sacrifice so as to win war. Death is righteous in itself, because it is in a righteous cause. This view carries on in the West despite theories to the contrary. An element of martyrdom is present in our culture’s recognition of the moral dignity of the war dead. There is a close juxtaposition, theologically in need of debate between such “martyrdom” and the sacrifice of Christ. “No one has greater love than this, to lay down one’s life for one’s friends” (John 15:13): Jesus said that about himself. Many Western war monuments to the dead have that verse on them, as though what a dead soldier went out to do was to lay down his life for his friends. That is not what he went out to do. He went out to kill, and he hoped to come home. He went out to lay down somebody else’s life. The use of Jesus’s cross language is a dramatic pointer to the persistence of the crusade mentality in our culture. Thanks to our monthly supporters J Phillip Mast Laverne Miller Jesse Killion ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

A huge thanks to Joseph McDade for his generous permission to use his music: https://josephmcdade.com/Thanks to Palmtoptiger17 for the beautiful logo: https://www.instagram.com/palmtoptiger17/Discord Discussion Board: https://disboard.org/server/474580298630430751 The 80% (My Book): https://www.amazon.com/80-Conservative-Evangelicals-Prove-Relativists-ebook/dp/B07RDPW2NZ/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=j.g.+elliot&qid=1573560697&sr=8-1Tomlinson's Abortion Conundrum: https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/man-pro-choice-question-anti-abortion-argument-human-embryos-five-year-old-a8016671.htmlConsequentialism Series on Altruism: https://thefourthway.transistor.fm/episodes/consequentialism-the-heart-of-compromiseA great article discussing what we have worked through in this episode: https://www.mccl.org/post/2017/11/02/the-embryo-rescue-argument-doesnt-show-that-some-human-beings-are-expendable Thanks to our monthly supporters J Phillip Mast Laverne Miller Jesse Killion ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

A huge thanks to Joseph McDade for his generous permission to use his music: https://josephmcdade.com/Thanks to Palmtoptiger17 for the beautiful logo: https://www.instagram.com/palmtoptiger17/Discord Discussion Board: https://disboard.org/server/474580298630430751 Thoughts on the Phillips vs. Irons Case: https://supreme.findlaw.com/legal-commentary/when-oral-sex-results-in-a-pregnancy-can-men-ever-escape-paternity-obligations.htmlA great discussion on the violinist argument: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGPudL_GQ3Y&feature=youtu.be Thanks to our monthly supporters J Phillip Mast Laverne Miller Jesse Killion ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

A huge thanks to Joseph McDade for his generous permission to use his music: https://josephmcdade.com/Thanks to Palmtoptiger17 for the beautiful logo: https://www.instagram.com/palmtoptiger17/Discord Discussion Board: https://disboard.org/server/474580298630430751 The Best Conversationalist on Abortion and Life: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK-sX7E90QI&feature=emb_logoA great discussion on the violinist argument: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGPudL_GQ3Y&feature=youtu.beGreg Kokul's "Unstringing the Violinist:" https://www.str.org/articles/unstringing-the-violinist Thanks to our monthly supporters J Phillip Mast Laverne Miller Jesse Killion ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

[Edit 5/8/22] I just came across Psalm 51:5 today and thought it helped to make another great point about how we interpret scripture. For those arguing that our being known by God in the womb ought to be taken at face value and point towards the sanctity of life from in the womb, then surely Psalm 51, if taken in a consistent fashion, declares the concept of original sin and original guilt. It says, "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me." If one wants to proof-text the idea of the sanctity of life in the womb, then those same fetuses that die, and infants who die are sinners who stand guilty before God. While a portion of the Christian community would have no problem with this concept, many would detest such a notion. A huge thanks to Joseph McDade for his generous permission to use his music: https://josephmcdade.com/Thanks to Palmtoptiger17 for the beautiful logo: https://www.instagram.com/palmtoptiger17/Discord Discussion Board: https://disboard.org/server/474580298630430751 **After listening again I recognize I said something which needs to be restated. I understand that having sex doesn't mean you'll get pregnant (I have 4 kids, so trust me, I understand). I misspoke. I intended to imply that for every 100 times there would have been impregnation, statistically, one of those would be aborted via secondary measures of hormonal birth control. Over the course of a married life and assuming healthy sexual activity, that means that there would likely be multiple abortions statistically speaking. Episode Summary: 1. Images and Pain Presence: Use of post-abortion photos and describing the pain sensations a fetus can feel at different stages of development can be valuable tools to spark emotion, dig at intuitive knowledge, or bolster a larger argument. However, they are terrible stand-alone or primary arguments against abortion, yet they tend to be where many Christians start and stop their understanding of the issue. The main problem with them is that they actually undermine the core case Christians want to make for the value of the fetus. How much something resembles a human or what level of pain one can feel changes based on time and situations, and are what we call degreed properties. If something is held in degrees, not only can you be more or less of something on the spectrum (in this case, human), but you can also lose that thing. likeness and pain sensation are degreed properties and are not present in all fetuses at all times, and especially not at the same level. ---2. Biblical Cherry-picking: Many anti-abortion Christians love to say that everyone, including fetuses, are important, because "God knits us all together in the womb." We turn this into a scientific statement. The problem is that in this very passage - only two verses later - the author declares that he was woven together in the depths of the earth. You will find plenty of cases where (especially in the Psalms), the author works within an ANE framework, and not a scientific one (e.g. the pillars holding up the sky). We also see other strange conceptions (to our modern ears) of life, as in when the Bible tells us that Levi paid a tithe to Melchizedek through Abraham, as Levi was in Abraham's loins (Augustine called this "seminal headship" in regard to all humans being in the loins of Adam). Today, we know that this isn't how sperm, genetics, and individual identity work. We can't pick and choose what aspects of ancient beliefs sound good for our case to use as zinger proof-texts. It's a whole package. Since this may be a particularly contentious point, here are some perspectives from an inerrantist I trust who expounds on these topics. Adam's Loins and Seminal Headship: https://drmsh.com/more-on-romans-5/ Levi's Loins and Hebrew Belief: https://nakedbiblepodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/NB-185-Transcript.pdf (top of pg. 14 ff). Ancient Hebrew Cosmology: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbPtym0NboU (39:30 ff). ---3. Ignoring Counter-examples in the Bible: Some Christians know the common rebuttal that life was viewed as less valuable to ancient Hebrews because there was a law which seems to declare the consequences for causing a woman to miscarry were less severe than for killing a human who was older. But there are some words you can argue about there. To me, the glaring problem passage is when by law, a husband was able to take his wife to the priest if he suspected infidelity and force her to drink a concoction which would kill the child if it was not the husbands. However, I don't know any anti-abortion Christians who would argue that we should be able to do paternity tests and then justly abort any children born out of a marital relationship. ---4. Christian Inconsistency: We say we believe life begins at conception, yet most of us use birth controls which have abortive measures (preventing implantation, not conception) as secondary effects. Many of us also speak in a derogatory fashion about ch

A huge thanks to Joseph McDade for his generous permission to use his music: https://josephmcdade.com/Thanks to Palmtoptiger17 for the beautiful logo: https://www.instagram.com/palmtoptiger17/Discord Discussion Board: https://disboard.org/server/474580298630430751 Thanks to our monthly supporters J Phillip Mast Laverne Miller Jesse Killion ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

A huge thanks to Joseph McDade for his generous permission to use his music: https://josephmcdade.com/Thanks to Palmtoptiger17 for the beautiful logo: https://www.instagram.com/palmtoptiger17/Discord Discussion Board: https://disboard.org/server/474580298630430751 Thanks to our monthly supporters J Phillip Mast Laverne Miller Jesse Killion ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

A huge thanks to Joseph McDade for his generous permission to use his music: https://josephmcdade.com/Thanks to Palmtoptiger17 for the beautiful logo: https://www.instagram.com/palmtoptiger17/Discord Discussion Board: https://disboard.org/server/474580298630430751 Various Abortion Resources: https://www.dckreider.com/blog-theological-musings/abortion-8-resources Thanks to our monthly supporters J Phillip Mast Laverne Miller Jesse Killion ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

A huge thanks to Joseph McDade for his generous permission to use his music: https://josephmcdade.com/Thanks to Palmtoptiger17 for the beautiful logo: https://www.instagram.com/palmtoptiger17/Discord Discussion Board: https://disboard.org/server/474580298630430751 The 80% (My Book): https://www.amazon.com/80-Conservative-Evangelicals-Prove-Relativists-ebook/dp/B07RDPW2NZ/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=j.g.+elliot&qid=1573560697&sr=8-1Various reflections related to consequentialism: https://www.dckreider.com/blog-theological-musings/category/pragmatism-and-consequentialismJust Mercy: https://www.amazon.com/Just-Mercy-story-justice-redemption/dp/1912854791/ref=sr_1_14?dchild=1&keywords=bryan+stevenson&qid=1585871230&sr=8-14The 13th Documentary: https://www.bing.com/search?FORM=U523DF&PC=U523&q=the+13th+documentaryThe Racist History of the Religious Right and Conservative Evangelicalism: https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/05/religious-right-real-origins-107133Abortion was approved by many conservative Evangelicals until it became a backdoor to race issues: https://www.npr.org/2019/06/20/734303135/throughline-traces-evangelicals-history-on-the-abortion-issueCornel West's "Democracy Matters:" https://www.amazon.com/Democracy-Matters-Winning-Against-Imperialism/dp/B0009JON0U/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Cornell+west+democracy+matters&qid=1587258766&sr=8-1Black Lives Matter Beliefs: https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/Mark Noll is an Evangelical Historian who I have found to be very insightful during this time in my life. He is a heartbroken Evangelical (as can be seen in his [in]famous book "The Scandal of the Evangelical Mind"), meaning he considers himself an Evangelical, but is introspective and honest enough to recognize our glaring problems. That is exactly how I feel at the moment, and I appreciate those who, like Noll, can honestly point out our past and our present and call us to address our problems. Noll has many books which you may find helpful on this topic, but I found the two books below to be helpful in understanding why the Evangelical church has so many problems with race, why the government took over the church's role (and why we let it), why we are political idolaters, and so much more. The Civil War as a Theological Crisis: https://www.amazon.com/Theological-Crisis-Steven-Janice-Lectures-ebook/dp/B00W1W601S/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=mark+noll&qid=1586637948&sr=8-2God and Race in American Politics: https://www.amazon.com/God-Race-American-Politics-History-ebook/dp/B003E7FIDU/ref=sr_1_15?dchild=1&keywords=mark+noll&qid=1586637986&sr=8-15 Thanks to our monthly supporters J Phillip Mast Laverne Miller Jesse Killion ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

*Please note that I am not particularly critiquing the actions taken by government or individuals, provided their actions are based on honest and educated assessments of data. Isolating everyone vs. isolating only a certain population (e.g. those over 60, those with preexisting conditions, etc) is a judgment call. We don't have all the data necessary to make perfect decisions, so we're experimenting and learning as we go. At what point does shutting down the economy do more harm than good, particularly in countries where they live day to day, hand to mouth? I don't know, and I don't want to judge anyone for difficult decisions.However, what I do intend to point out in this episode is that my group has erred (as a broad generalization, of course) in our discernment. Many in my group have politicized the virus to the point that we were unable to assess the gravity of the situation, we were unable to effectively love in our actions, and we were unable to wisely discern common sense judgment and action in the situation. While I am not judging for making the wrong decisions given limited information, I am judging our political idolatry and our dismissal of truths which don't fit our desired narrative. A huge thanks to Joseph McDade for his generous permission to use his music: https://josephmcdade.com/Thanks to Palmtoptiger17 for the beautiful logo: https://www.instagram.com/palmtoptiger17/Discord Discussion Board: https://disboard.org/server/474580298630430751 The 80% (My Book): https://www.amazon.com/80-Conservative-Evangelicals-Prove-Relativists-ebook/dp/B07RDPW2NZ/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=j.g.+elliot&qid=1573560697&sr=8-1Various reflections related to consequentialism: https://www.dckreider.com/blog-theological-musings/category/pragmatism-and-consequentialismA fantastic moral overview of the pandemic from a Christian perspective: https://mereorthodoxy.com/moral-reasoning-coronavirus-pandemic/ Mars Hill Audio, which featured the above article in audio format: https://www.marshillaudio.org Conservative Responses to COVID-19 Image Gallery: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1CMNQ-kj1dN37sxBUPjffKwZCk1vi0dREDemocrat vs. Republican: https://www.npr.org/2020/03/17/816501871/poll-as-coronavirus-spreads-fewer-americans-see-pandemic-as-a-real-threat?utm_term=nprnews&utm_campaign=npr&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=socialLiberty University and Falwell: https://www.washingtonpost.com/Falwell continue classes: https://www.businessinsider.com/jerry-falwell-jr-suggests-coronavirus-is-plot-to-hurt-trump-2020-3Governer difference between KY and TN: https://www.alternet.org/2020/03/kentucky-vs-tennessee-on-coronavirus-may-be-the-best-example-of-elections-matter-in-decades/?fbclid=IwAR0QBc9J9X37IwUjxyhfRovCTTliRV7SyBgCNtWPKYvTC--w7wW6gwu2o9UFOX Hype and Changing Tune: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DmW_H4U-MI&t=145sFox Questioning the Virus as a Hoax/Conspiracy: https://www.mediamatters.org/coronavirus-covid-19/fox-news-contributor-i-am-seeing-videos-twitter-empty-hospital-parking-lotsGeorgia Conservative questions legitimacy of the pandemic: https://decaturish.com/2020/03/gov-kemp-staffer-accuses-officials-of-overreacting-to-covid-19-spokesperson-cites-federalist/Environment correction article: https://medium.com/cruciformity/coronavirus-a-symptom-of-creations-brokenness-e9335ae7d8a1Florida Church Ignores Guidelines: https://www.fox13news.com/news/tampa-megachurch-crowded-with-worshipers-despite-social-distancing-ordersAnother Church Ignores Guidelines: https://www.wesh.com/article/second-pastor-charged-with-violating-public-orders-says-church-doors-will-still-be-open-on-sunday/32003221?fbclid=IwAR3I9lL5E5WHuGR5mtMMDjbqPVAMLobnr8XJg8DCSP4SPmnRXdVAWYcl0o4#Parishoner Interview "covered by the blood": https://www.facebook.com/tboypunk/videos/3913215418696211/Reopen America and Conservatism: https://www.forbes.com/sites/simonchandler/2020/04/24/security-researchers-say-the-reopen-america-campaign-is-being-astroturfed/A good piece on Evangelicalism and some of its problems with taking responsibility: https://religiondispatches.org/itsnotus-being-evangelical-means-never-having-to-say-youre-sorry/Hypocrisy of the Religious Right: https://www.patheos.com/blogs/shanephipps/2020/04/20/the-christian-right-is-under-siege-by-a-pandemic-of-hypocrisy/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=FBCP-PATHChristians and Conspiracy Theories: https://www.christianitytoday.com/edstetzer/2020/april/christians-and-corona-conspiracies.html?fbclid=IwAR0BFQWYb4Y-UUiWzugAlCC7hbwr7EF2bYIySoVwCn6zv82rh5EW5QM7KR0Sacrificing God - my blog discussing the moral inconsistency of our response to COVID and our response to moral compromise in politics:

*around 59:30 I intend to say prostitution is a secular endeavor, not a sacred oneA huge thanks to Joseph McDade for his generous permission to use his music: https://josephmcdade.com/Thanks to Palmtoptiger17 for the beautiful logo: https://www.instagram.com/palmtoptiger17/Discord Discussion Board: https://disboard.org/server/474580298630430751 The 80% (My Book): https://www.amazon.com/80-Conservative-Evangelicals-Prove-Relativists-ebook/dp/B07RDPW2NZ/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=j.g.+elliot&qid=1573560697&sr=8-1Various reflections related to consequentialism: https://www.dckreider.com/blog-theological-musings/category/pragmatism-and-consequentialismBonhoeffer the Assassin: https://www.amazon.com/Bonhoeffer-Assassin-Challenging-Recovering-Peacemaking-ebook/dp/B00FOWLXVY/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=bonhoeffer+the+assassin&qid=1578771855&sr=8-1Summary of Bonhoeffer's Case: https://www.plough.com/en/topics/justice/nonviolence/was-bonhoeffer-willing-to-killInterview with Bonhoeffer Scholar: https://www.benjaminlcorey.com/no-dietrich-bonhoeffer-didnt-try-to-kill-adolph-hitler/Jerry Falwell Jr. Quote: https://twitter.com/JerryFalwellJr/status/1045853333007798272?ref_src=twsrc%5EtfwPablo Yoder Testimony: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOdGENdH1fo&t=1sVictories Without Violence: https://www.amazon.com/Victories-Without-Violence-Ruth-Fry/dp/0943734061/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1578896183&sr=8-2The Doors of the Sea: https://www.amazon.com/Doors-Sea-Where-Was-Tsunami/dp/0802866867/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=the+doors+of+the+sea&qid=1578897160&sr=8-1"Nationalism and internationalism have to do with political necessities and possibilities. The ecumenical Church, however, does not concern itself with these things, but with the commandments of God, and regardless of consequences it transmits these commandments to the world. Our task as theologians, accordingly, consists only in accepting this commandment as a binding one, not as a question open to discussion. Peace on earth is not a problem, but a commandment given at Christ’s coming. There are two ways of reacting to this command from God: the unconditional, blind obedience of action, or the hypocritical question of the Serpent: “Yea, hath God said . . . ?” This question is the mortal enemy of obedience, and therefore the mortal enemy of all real peace. . . . “Must God not have meant that we should talk about peace, to be sure, but that it is not to be literally translated into action? Must God not really have said that we should work for peace, of course, but also make ready tanks and poison gas for security?” And then perhaps the most serious question: “Did God say you should not protect your own people? Did God say you should leave your own a prey to the enemy?” No, God did not say all that. What He has said is that there shall be peace among men—that we shall obey Him without further question, that is what He means. He who questions the commandment of God before obeying has already denied Him. . . . For the members of the ecumenical Church, in so far as they hold to Christ, His word, His commandment of peace is more holy, more inviolable than the most revered words and works of the natural world. For they know that whoso is not able to hate father and mother for His sake is not worthy of Him, and lies if he calls himself after Christ’s name. These brothers in Christ obey His word; they do not doubt or question, but keep His commandment of peace. They are not ashamed, in defiance of the world, even to speak of eternal peace. They cannot take up arms against Christ himself—yet this is what they do if they take up arms against one another! Even in anguish and distress of conscience there is for them no escape from the commandment of Christ that there shall be peace. How does peace come about? Through a system of political treaties? Through the investment of international capital in different countries? Through the big banks, through money? Or through universal peaceful rearmament in order to guarantee peace? Through none of these, for the single reason that in all of them peace is confused with safety. There is no way to peace along the way of safety. For peace must be dared. It is the great venture. It can never be made safe. Peace is the opposite of security. To demand guarantees is to mistrust, and this mistrust in turn brings forth war. To look for guarantees is to want to protect oneself. Peace means to give oneself altogether to the law of God, wanting no security, but in faith and obedience laying the destiny of the nations in the hand of Almighty God, not trying to direct it for selfish purposes. Battles are won, not with weapons, but with God. They are won where the way leads to the cross. Which of us can say he knows what it might mean for the world if one nation should meet the aggressor, not with weapons in hand, but praying defenseless, and for that very reason protected by “a bulwark never failing”? "In Bonhoeffer’s interpretatio

A huge thanks to Joseph McDade for his generous permission to use his music: https://josephmcdade.com/Thanks to Palmtoptiger17 for the beautiful logo: https://www.instagram.com/palmtoptiger17/Discord Discussion Board: https://disboard.org/server/474580298630430751 The 80% (My Book): https://www.amazon.com/80-Conservative-Evangelicals-Prove-Relativists-ebook/dp/B07RDPW2NZ/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=j.g.+elliot&qid=1573560697&sr=8-1Various reflections related to consequentialism: https://www.dckreider.com/blog-theological-musings/category/pragmatism-and-consequentialismBonhoeffer the Assassin: https://www.amazon.com/Bonhoeffer-Assassin-Challenging-Recovering-Peacemaking-ebook/dp/B00FOWLXVY/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=bonhoeffer+the+assassin&qid=1578771855&sr=8-1Great extended summary of the book's findings from Dr. Nation and Hauerwas: https://www.abc.net.au/religion/a-pacifist-and-enemy-of-the-state-bonhoeffers-journey-to-nonviol/10094798Summary of Bonhoeffer's Case: https://www.plough.com/en/topics/justice/nonviolence/was-bonhoeffer-willing-to-killInterview with Bonhoeffer Scholar: https://www.benjaminlcorey.com/no-dietrich-bonhoeffer-didnt-try-to-kill-adolph-hitler/ Thanks to our monthly supporters J Phillip Mast Laverne Miller Jesse Killion ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

A huge thanks to Joseph McDade for his generous permission to use his music: https://josephmcdade.com/Thanks to Palmtoptiger17 for the beautiful logo: https://www.instagram.com/palmtoptiger17/Discord Discussion Board: https://disboard.org/server/474580298630430751 The 80% (My Book): https://www.amazon.com/80-Conservative-Evangelicals-Prove-Relativists-ebook/dp/B07RDPW2NZ/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=j.g.+elliot&qid=1573560697&sr=8-1Various reflections related to consequentialism: https://www.dckreider.com/blog-theological-musings/category/pragmatism-and-consequentialismBonhoeffer the Assassin: https://www.amazon.com/Bonhoeffer-Assassin-Challenging-Recovering-Peacemaking-ebook/dp/B00FOWLXVY/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=bonhoeffer+the+assassin&qid=1578771855&sr=8-1Great extended summary of the book's findings from Dr. Nation and Hauerwas: https://www.abc.net.au/religion/a-pacifist-and-enemy-of-the-state-bonhoeffers-journey-to-nonviol/10094798Summary of Bonhoeffer's Case: https://www.plough.com/en/topics/justice/nonviolence/was-bonhoeffer-willing-to-killInterview with Bonhoeffer Scholar: https://www.benjaminlcorey.com/no-dietrich-bonhoeffer-didnt-try-to-kill-adolph-hitler/The original version of this episode uncorrected: https://thefourthway.transistor.fm/episodes/46-se4-uncorrected-bonhoeffer-pacifist-or-assassin-part-1 Thanks to our monthly supporters J Phillip Mast Laverne Miller Jesse Killion ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

A huge thanks to Joseph McDade for his generous permission to use his music: https://josephmcdade.com/Thanks to Palmtoptiger17 for the beautiful logo: https://www.instagram.com/palmtoptiger17/Discord Discussion Board: https://disboard.org/server/474580298630430751 The 80% (My Book): https://www.amazon.com/80-Conservative-Evangelicals-Prove-Relativists-ebook/dp/B07RDPW2NZ/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=j.g.+elliot&qid=1573560697&sr=8-1Various reflections related to consequentialism: https://www.dckreider.com/blog-theological-musings/category/pragmatism-and-consequentialismPeter's Betrayal Wasn't Cowardice: https://www.dckreider.com/blog-theological-musings/peters-denial-wasnt-cowardice Thanks to our monthly supporters J Phillip Mast Laverne Miller Jesse Killion ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

A huge thanks to Joseph McDade for his generous permission to use his music: https://josephmcdade.com/Thanks to Palmtoptiger17 for the beautiful logo: https://www.instagram.com/palmtoptiger17/Discord Discussion Board: https://disboard.org/server/474580298630430751 The 80% (My Book): https://www.amazon.com/80-Conservative-Evangelicals-Prove-Relativists-ebook/dp/B07RDPW2NZ/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=j.g.+elliot&qid=1573560697&sr=8-1Various reflections related to consequentialism: https://www.dckreider.com/blog-theological-musings/category/pragmatism-and-consequentialismEarly Church Quotes: https://www.dckreider.com/blog-theological-musings/arguments-for-christian-pacifism-4-teaching-of-the-early-church Thanks to our monthly supporters J Phillip Mast Laverne Miller Jesse Killion ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

A huge thanks to Joseph McDade for his generous permission to use his music: https://josephmcdade.com/Thanks to Palmtoptiger17 for the beautiful logo: https://www.instagram.com/palmtoptiger17/Discord Discussion Board: https://disboard.org/server/474580298630430751 The 80% (My Book): https://www.amazon.com/80-Conservative-Evangelicals-Prove-Relativists-ebook/dp/B07RDPW2NZ/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=j.g.+elliot&qid=1573560697&sr=8-1Various reflections related to consequentialism: https://www.dckreider.com/blog-theological-musings/category/pragmatism-and-consequentialismTim Keller on God's Control: http://andynaselli.com/watergate Thanks to our monthly supporters J Phillip Mast Laverne Miller Jesse Killion ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

A huge thanks to Joseph McDade for his generous permission to use his music: https://josephmcdade.com/Thanks to Palmtoptiger17 for the beautiful logo: https://www.instagram.com/palmtoptiger17/Discord Discussion Board: https://disboard.org/server/474580298630430751 The 80% (My Book): https://www.amazon.com/80-Conservative-Evangelicals-Prove-Relativists-ebook/dp/B07RDPW2NZ/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=j.g.+elliot&qid=1573560697&sr=8-1Various reflections related to consequentialism: https://www.dckreider.com/blog-theological-musings/category/pragmatism-and-consequentialismEarly Church Quotes Compilation: https://www.dckreider.com/blog-theological-musings/arguments-for-christian-pacifism-4-teaching-of-the-early-churchThe Early Church on Killing: https://www.amazon.com/Early-Church-Killing-Comprehensive-Sourcebook/dp/0801036305/ref=sr_1_2?crid=3P67XKXI6LXU9&keywords=the+early+church+on+killing&qid=1577046248&sprefix=killing+in+the+early+church%2Caps%2C172&sr=8-2Rich Christians in the Age of Hunger: https://www.amazon.com/Rich-Christians-Age-Hunger-Generosity-ebook/dp/B00PWOH5TS/ref=sr_1_1?crid=IFXL81PXMRTI&keywords=rich+christians+in+the+age+of+hunger&qid=1577046278&sprefix=Rich+christians%2Caps%2C187&sr=8-1War is a Racket: https://www.amazon.com/War-Racket-Original-Smedley-Butler/dp/1939438586/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=War+is+a+racket&qid=1577046512&sr=8-1 Thanks to our monthly supporters J Phillip Mast Laverne Miller Jesse Killion ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

A huge thanks to Joseph McDade for his generous permission to use his music: https://josephmcdade.com/Thanks to Palmtoptiger17 for the beautiful logo: https://www.instagram.com/palmtoptiger17/Discord Discussion Board: https://disboard.org/server/474580298630430751 The 80% (My Book): https://www.amazon.com/80-Conservative-Evangelicals-Prove-Relativists-ebook/dp/B07RDPW2NZ/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=j.g.+elliot&qid=1573560697&sr=8-1Various reflections related to consequentialism: https://www.dckreider.com/blog-theological-musings/category/pragmatism-and-consequentialismSeason 1:13 discussing how a refusal to engage evil can be advancing good in a more meaningful way: https://thefourthway.transistor.fm/episodes/rebuttal-romans-13-part-2Romans 13 Application Episode: https://thefourthway.transistor.fm/episodes/rebuttal-romans-13-part-2Avoiding evil isn't a failure to do good episode: https://thefourthway.transistor.fm/episodes/rebuttal-evil-in-refusing-to-do-good Thanks to our monthly supporters J Phillip Mast Laverne Miller Jesse Killion ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

A huge thanks to Joseph McDade for his generous permission to use his music: https://josephmcdade.com/Thanks to Palmtoptiger17 for the beautiful logo: https://www.instagram.com/palmtoptiger17/Discord Discussion Board: https://disboard.org/server/474580298630430751 The 80% (My Book): https://www.amazon.com/80-Conservative-Evangelicals-Prove-Relativists-ebook/dp/B07RDPW2NZ/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=j.g.+elliot&qid=1573560697&sr=8-1Various reflections related to consequentialism: https://www.dckreider.com/blog-theological-musings/category/pragmatism-and-consequentialismLesser of Two Evils Episode: https://thefourthway.transistor.fm/episodes/consequentialism-problems-with-the-lesser-of-two-evils-ethic Thanks to our monthly supporters J Phillip Mast Laverne Miller Jesse Killion ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

A huge thanks to Joseph McDade for his generous permission to use his music: https://josephmcdade.com/Thanks to Palmtoptiger17 for the beautiful logo: https://www.instagram.com/palmtoptiger17/Discord Discussion Board: https://disboard.org/server/474580298630430751 The 80% (My Book): https://www.amazon.com/80-Conservative-Evangelicals-Prove-Relativists-ebook/dp/B07RDPW2NZ/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=j.g.+elliot&qid=1573560697&sr=8-1Various reflections related to consequentialism: https://www.dckreider.com/blog-theological-musings/category/pragmatism-and-consequentialism Thanks to our monthly supporters J Phillip Mast Laverne Miller Jesse Killion ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

A huge thanks to Joseph McDade for his generous permission to use his music: https://josephmcdade.com/Thanks to Palmtoptiger17 for the beautiful logo: https://www.instagram.com/palmtoptiger17/Discord Discussion Board: https://disboard.org/server/474580298630430751 The 80% (My Book): https://www.amazon.com/80-Conservative-Evangelicals-Prove-Relativists-ebook/dp/B07RDPW2NZ/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=j.g.+elliot&qid=1573560697&sr=8-1Various reflections related to consequentialism: https://www.dckreider.com/blog-theological-musings/category/pragmatism-and-consequentialism Thanks to our monthly supporters J Phillip Mast Laverne Miller Jesse Killion ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

A huge thanks to Joseph McDade for his generous permission to use his music: https://josephmcdade.com/Thanks to Palmtoptiger17 for the beautiful logo: https://www.instagram.com/palmtoptiger17/Discord Discussion Board: https://disboard.org/server/474580298630430751 The 80% (My Book): https://www.amazon.com/80-Conservative-Evangelicals-Prove-Relativists-ebook/dp/B07RDPW2NZ/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=j.g.+elliot&qid=1573560697&sr=8-1Various reflections related to consequentialism: https://www.dckreider.com/blog-theological-musings/category/pragmatism-and-consequentialismThe Immoral Majority: https://www.amazon.com/Immoral-Majority-Good-Christians-Leaders/dp/0062797115/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=the+immoral+majority&qid=1592527499&sr=8-1"Anatomy of a Hybrid" and Christendom/Christian Sacralism: https://www.gospeltruth.net/verduin/hybrid.htm The Myth of a Christian Nation: https://www.amazon.com/Myth-Christian-Nation-Political-Destroying/dp/0310267315/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=the+myth+of+a+christian+nation&qid=1583004622&sr=8-2Quote from Robert Jeffress, President Trump's spiritual advisor and Evangelical bigshot: "But as far as his worldview, Trump's world view, I was debating an evangelical professor on NPR and this professor said, "Pastor, don’t you want a candidate who embodies the teaching of Jesus and would govern this country according to the principles found in the Sermon on the Mount?" I said, "Heck no." I would run from that candidate as far as possible because the Sermon on the Mount was not given as a governing principle for this nation. Nowhere is government told to forgive those who wrong it, nowhere is government commanded to turn the other cheek. Government is to be a strongman to protect its citizens against evildoers. When I’m looking for somebody who’s going to deal with ISIS and exterminate ISIS, I don’t care about that candidate’s tone or vocabulary, I want the meanest, toughest, son of a you-know-what I can find, and I believe that’s Biblical."Psalm 2: https://www.biblestudytools.com/psalms/2.html1 Why do the nations conspireand the peoples plot in vain? 2 The kings of the earth rise up and the rulers band together against the LORD and against his anointed, saying, 3 “Let us break their chains and throw off their shackles.” 4 The One enthroned in heaven laughs; the Lord scoffs at them. 5 He rebukes them in his anger and terrifies them in his wrath, saying, 6 “I have installed my king on Zion, my holy mountain.” 7 I will proclaim the LORD’s decree: He said to me, “You are my son; today I have become your father. 8 Ask me, and I will make the nations your inheritance, the ends of the earth your possession. 9 You will break them with a rod of iron ; you will dash them to pieces like pottery.” 10 Therefore, you kings, be wise; be warned, you rulers of the earth. 11 Serve the LORD with fear and celebrate his rule with trembling. 12 Kiss his son, or he will be angry and your way will lead to your destruction, for his wrath can flare up in a moment. Blessed are all who take refuge in him. Thanks to our monthly supporters J Phillip Mast Laverne Miller Jesse Killion ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

A huge thanks to Joseph McDade for his generous permission to use his music: https://josephmcdade.com/Thanks to Palmtoptiger17 for the beautiful logo: https://www.instagram.com/palmtoptiger17/Discord Discussion Board: https://disboard.org/server/474580298630430751 The 80% (My Book): https://www.amazon.com/80-Conservative-Evangelicals-Prove-Relativists-ebook/dp/B07RDPW2NZ/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=j.g.+elliot&qid=1573560697&sr=8-1Various reflections related to consequentialism: https://www.dckreider.com/blog-theological-musings/category/pragmatism-and-consequentialismA great conversation on a philosophy behind abstention: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqEc3NNGol8&feature=youtu.bePhil Vischer on abortion and politics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvWD7ykNjCc&feature=youtu.beVoting as coercive: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiiyZsCzP9k&t=1sVoting as an abdication of responsibility: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBAs9jmanzs&t=9sChristian Sacralism in "Anatomy of a Hybrid:" https://www.gospeltruth.net/verduin/hybrid.htmElecting Not to Vote: https://www.amazon.com/Electing-Not-Vote-Christian-Reflections-ebook/dp/B00YD5D0Z0/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=electing+not+to+vote&qid=1577199172&sr=8-1Essay on Civil Disobedience (Thoreau): https://users.manchester.edu/Facstaff/SSNaragon/Online/texts/201/Thoreau,%20CivilDisobedience.pdfKierkegaard Quotes on Politics: https://www.plough.com/en/topics/justice/politics/politics-and-the-stateThe Myth of a Christian Nation: https://www.amazon.com/Myth-Christian-Nation-Political-Destroying/dp/0310267315/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=the+myth+of+a+christian+nation&qid=1583004622&sr=8-2Consequentialism Series (beginning ep. 24): https://thefourthway.transistor.fm/episodes?utf8=%E2%9C%93&year=2019&month=Romans 13 Part 1 (Biblical Case): https://thefourthway.transistor.fm/episodes/rebuttal-romans-13Romans 13 Part 2 (Practical Case): https://thefourthway.transistor.fm/episodes/rebuttal-romans-13-part-2As Christians in the U.S. start thinking about voting for a commander in chief this fall, I thought I'd throw out an unpopular option for everyone to chew on. I've done a significant amount of reflection on politics, voting, and Kingdom living over the past few years, and I have concluded that the option of abstention is something that needs to be on the table for Christians. It may not be something you do in this election, or any future election, but it needs to be a tool you have available to you and one you can respect others using. In this podcast episode I lay out that case for this option, but if you want the summary and don't want to listen to a ninety minute episode, I'll summarize below. https://thefourthway.transistor.fm/episodes/se2-abstention-from-political-idolatry1. Many Christians view what James calls true religion as optional (helping orphans, widows, etc), as few Christians judge others for not doing these things. Only people who are "called" to those things are required to do them. Few people in our churches adopt, volunteer at the food pantry, etc. We view those things as optional, and understand if congregants don't have the time to participate. However, many view voting as morally necessary and the responsible thing to do. This mismatch of moral obligations seems to me to be political idolatry. How is it that orphans and widows are optional, while voting is obligatory? The state has replaced the church as the Christian ethic in American Evangelical society, which is why a vote every four years is lauded more vocally than doing the hard work of consistent community interaction and love. 2. When all candidates and/or platforms require our own moral compromises or implicit support of evil, the testimony of Christ should be prioritized and our salt/light to the world maintained over any action which promises perceived effectiveness. When all options are evil (a threshold we may disagree on), a holy example is only maintained through our abstention from evil and subsequent faith in God to accomplish his means through the church. As Daniel resigned himself to prayer, Moses's mother resigned her son to a basket, and Jesus resigned himself to a cross - God may bring us to a moment where following him means throwing off seeming effectiveness and simply resting in God's promise to sovereignly control history not through our subversion of his means, but through our clinging to him and his holy will over human wisdom, methodology, and power..God's express and implied will for our lives is holiness and a growing conformity to Christ. If all political parties and/or candidates require moral compromise, abstention is important to maintain moral holiness in our avoidance of evil. It is only through holy distinction (being salt and light) that incarnation is possible and meaningful. Had Jesus met us where we were, but not maintained his holy distinction from us, his incarnation would have been meaningless because he would have condescended without pr

A huge thanks to Joseph McDade for his generous permission to use his music: https://josephmcdade.com/Thanks to Palmtoptiger17 for the beautiful logo: https://www.instagram.com/palmtoptiger17/Discord Discussion Board: https://disboard.org/server/474580298630430751 The 80% (My Book): https://www.amazon.com/80-Conservative-Evangelicals-Prove-Relativists-ebook/dp/B07RDPW2NZ/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=j.g.+elliot&qid=1573560697&sr=8-1Various reflections related to consequentialism: https://www.dckreider.com/blog-theological-musings/category/pragmatism-and-consequentialismGreat real-life example of integrity in doing right while refusing to lie: https://wagingnonviolence.org/podcast/city-of-refuge-part-1/ Thanks to our monthly supporters J Phillip Mast Laverne Miller Jesse Killion ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

A huge thanks to Joseph McDade for his generous permission to use his music: https://josephmcdade.com/Thanks to Palmtoptiger17 for the beautiful logo: https://www.instagram.com/palmtoptiger17/Discord Discussion Board: https://disboard.org/server/474580298630430751 The 80% (My Book): https://www.amazon.com/80-Conservative-Evangelicals-Prove-Relativists-ebook/dp/B07RDPW2NZ/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=j.g.+elliot&qid=1573560697&sr=8-1Various reflections related to consequentialism: https://www.dckreider.com/blog-theological-musings/category/pragmatism-and-consequentialismM.A.S.H. Clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvBS0VqJPXs&t=6s Thanks to our monthly supporters J Phillip Mast Laverne Miller Jesse Killion ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

A huge thanks to Joseph McDade for his generous permission to use his music: https://josephmcdade.com/Thanks to Palmtoptiger17 for the beautiful logo: https://www.instagram.com/palmtoptiger17/Discord Discussion Board: https://disboard.org/server/474580298630430751 The 80% (My Book): https://www.amazon.com/80-Conservative-Evangelicals-Prove-Relativists-ebook/dp/B07RDPW2NZ/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=j.g.+elliot&qid=1573560697&sr=8-1Various reflections related to consequentialism: https://www.dckreider.com/blog-theological-musings/category/pragmatism-and-consequentialismGreg Kokul's Case for Abortion in Ectopic Pregnancies: https://www.str.org/blog/are-pro-lifers-being-inconsistent-if-they-save-mothers-life-rather-babys#.XFGgZFwzZEYThe Bridge Film: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ_tDVNLrnA&t=1418sFollow-Up Resource on Ectopic Pregnancies (with peer-reviewed literature): http://www.personhoodinitiative.com/ectopic-personhood.html Thanks to our monthly supporters J Phillip Mast Laverne Miller Jesse Killion ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

A huge thanks to Joseph McDade for his generous permission to use his music: https://josephmcdade.com/Thanks to Palmtoptiger17 for the beautiful logo: https://www.instagram.com/palmtoptiger17/Discord Discussion Board: https://disboard.org/server/474580298630430751 The 80% (My Book): https://www.amazon.com/80-Conservative-Evangelicals-Prove-Relativists-ebook/dp/B07RDPW2NZ/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=j.g.+elliot&qid=1573560697&sr=8-1Various reflections related to consequentialism: https://www.dckreider.com/blog-theological-musings/category/pragmatism-and-consequentialismThe House Wins song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30Uvq9SMNHQ Thanks to our monthly supporters J Phillip Mast Laverne Miller Jesse Killion ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

A huge thanks to Joseph McDade for his generous permission to use his music: https://josephmcdade.com/Thanks to Palmtoptiger17 for the beautiful logo: https://www.instagram.com/palmtoptiger17/Discord Discussion Board: https://disboard.org/server/474580298630430751 The 80% (My Book): https://www.amazon.com/80-Conservative-Evangelicals-Prove-Relativists-ebook/dp/B07RDPW2NZ/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=j.g.+elliot&qid=1573560697&sr=8-1Various reflections related to consequentialism: https://www.dckreider.com/blog-theological-musings/category/pragmatism-and-consequentialismWhen Helping Hurts book: https://www.amazon.com/When-Helping-Hurts-Alleviate-Yourself/dp/0802409989/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1574185196&sr=8-2Greek Orthodox Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/st-spyridon/id980578028Revolution of Values: https://www.amazon.com/Revolution-Values-Reclaiming-Public-Common-ebook/dp/B07V7YY2MV/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=revolution+of+values&qid=1589546203&sr=8-1From "Revolution of Values:" I strongly recommend chapter two which hits very hard at the heart of our discussion on grace and generosity. " The Bible in the hands of rich men became divorced from it's social and political context. Key to avoiding its prophetic challenge of economic inequality and the exploitation of poor people in ancient economies, was a focus on the Bible's spiritual message. On this reading, all of Hebrew scripture with its prophets with long beards and hair shirts confronting greedy kings, its message becomes a morality play meant to demonstrate each individual's need of redemption from sin. If wealth is the visible sign you are blessed, then poor people are spiritually needy.When rich men gather to read a spiritualized Bible, their thoughts turn not towards repentance, but charity. Thus the Bible's concern for justice towards all people and a concern for the poor became a reminder to rich men that it was important to sit on non-profits and charity boards. Helping poor people wasn't only about making sure they had food to eat or a place to sleep. It was ultimately about imparting spiritual blessing on them, holding out the hope that they too may pull themselves up by their bootstraps and be saved. 'When you did it to the least of these, you did it unto me,' wasn't Jesus's summary statement about how the nations of the earth would be judged on the last day. It was instead a reminder that industrialists must also be philanthropists. Great men who prove their spiritual greatness by offering to bestow it on anyone who aspires to be just like them. Thanks to our monthly supporters J Phillip Mast Laverne Miller Jesse Killion ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

*I realized that my statement on hospitality may not be taken graciously or with a full attempt to understand, so I felt the need to have an extended explanation here. It's important to note that I am not saying the only sin of Sodom was lacking hospitality, but simply that it was one aspect of the problem. Ezekiel 16:49 perhaps encompasses this idea the best, as it declares the sin of Sodom to be, at least in part, their lack of concern and assistance for the poor and needy. Unfortunately, many conservative Christians feel they can't allow both/and answers here, as they feel it undercuts their ability to use this verse as a proof text against homosexuality. Hospitality was a huge issue in the ANE, and even more specifically in the Bible. You can see this in a passage which has several similarities to the Sodom passage, found in Judges 19. There we see that a man enters another city within Israel, and it is emphasized that no one takes him in for the night. Finally, an old man takes him in, but then the men of the city come along and seek to rape the male traveler. The owner of the house shows disgust, emphasizing that it is vile to consider doing this to him because he is a guest. Rape doesn't seem to be as much the issue for the owner, as he's willing to throw out the guest's concubine and even his own daughter to be raped, and when the concubine is thrown out, the men are contented to rape her instead of the male guest. While the rape may be a part of the emphasis of perversion, the aspect which seems to put the icing on the cake is that such a thing would be done to a guest. Again, I am not saying that a lack of hospitality is the biggest aspect of either story, but that a lack of hospitality is a part of the problem. Lacking hospitality may not in and of itself seem abhorrent, but just as lust is a prerequisite for adultery and hate a prerequisite for murder, it seems that being inhospitable is a prerequisite (or accompanying attitude) for at least certain forms of injustice and abhorrent sin. We see many other references to God's desire for ancient Israel to be hospitable, especially to the most vulnerable (strangers, foreigners, orphans, widows, those in need, etc). Hospitality in this sense is a justice issue - a justice issue for which Israel goes into exile (concomitant with idolatry). We also see in the New Testament that hospitality is a requirement for both elders and deacons (even preceding teaching as a characteristic), and is also an important emphasis in Romans 12, where Paul is describing what the Christian life should look like at its core. For a good overview of ideas, check out the following source. https://www.christianity.com/newsletters/features/a-meal-says-more-than-you-think-the-importance-of-hospitality-11631555.html A huge thanks to Joseph McDade for his generous permission to use his music: https://josephmcdade.com/Thanks to Palmtoptiger17 for the beautiful logo: https://www.instagram.com/palmtoptiger17/Discord Discussion Board: https://disboard.org/server/474580298630430751 The 80% (My Book): https://www.amazon.com/80-Conservative-Evangelicals-Prove-Relativists-ebook/dp/B07RDPW2NZ/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=j.g.+elliot&qid=1573560697&sr=8-1Various reflections related to consequentialism: https://www.dckreider.com/blog-theological-musings/category/pragmatism-and-consequentialism Thanks to our monthly supporters J Phillip Mast Laverne Miller Jesse Killion ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

A huge thanks to Joseph McDade for his generous permission to use his music: https://josephmcdade.com/Thanks to Palmtoptiger17 for the beautiful logo: https://www.instagram.com/palmtoptiger17/Discord Discussion Board: https://disboard.org/server/474580298630430751 The 80% (My Book): https://www.amazon.com/80-Conservative-Evangelicals-Prove-Relativists-ebook/dp/B07RDPW2NZ/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=j.g.+elliot&qid=1573560697&sr=8-1Various reflections related to consequentialism: https://www.dckreider.com/blog-theological-musings/category/pragmatism-and-consequentialismLes Miserables Priest/Bishop Scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhpwV4cwB4oStories from my early stories of struggling with grace towards those requesting need: https://www.dckreider.com/blog-ministry-in-romania/category/perspectivesSome of my reflections on grace: https://www.dckreider.com/blog-theological-musings/category/grace-and-mercyRevolution of Values: https://www.amazon.com/Revolution-Values-Reclaiming-Public-Common-ebook/dp/B07V7YY2MV/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=revolution+of+values&qid=1589546203&sr=8-1From "Revolution of Values:" I strongly recommend chapter two which hits very hard at the heart of our discussion on grace and generosity. " The Bible in the hands of rich men became divorced from it's social and political context. Key to avoiding its prophetic challenge of economic inequality and the exploitation of poor people in ancient economies, was a focus on the Bible's spiritual message. On this reading, all of Hebrew scripture with its prophets with long beards and hair shirts confronting greedy kings, its message becomes a morality play meant to demonstrate each individual's need of redemption from sin. If wealth is the visible sign you are blessed, then poor people are spiritually needy.When rich men gather to read a spiritualized Bible, their thoughts turn not towards repentance, but charity. Thus the Bible's concern for justice towards all people and a concern for the poor became a reminder to rich men that it was important to sit on non-profits and charity boards. Helping poor people wasn't only about making sure they had food to eat or a place to sleep. It was ultimately about imparting spiritual blessing on them, holding out the hope that they too may pull themselves up by their bootstraps and be saved. 'When you did it to the least of these, you did it unto me,' wasn't Jesus's summary statement about how the nations of the earth would be judged on the last day. It was instead a reminder that industrialists must also be philanthropists. Great men who prove their spiritual greatness by offering to bestow it on anyone who aspires to be just like them. Thanks to our monthly supporters J Phillip Mast Laverne Miller Jesse Killion ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★