Sustain

Guest Manuel Riel Panelists Richard Littauer | Justin Dorfman Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we are super excited to have as our guest, Manuel Riel, joining us from Austria. Manu ran a web development agency and launched multiple open source related products, including an invoice processing tool, and a backup service. He’s also the Co-founder of PikaPods, which is a container hosting service for open source apps. Manu is with us to talk about PikaPods. We’ll find out what it does, why it’s needed, the benefits of having it, the most popular app, and plans he has in the future for PikaPods. Go ahead and download this episode to learn more! [00:01:23] Manu tells us his background, what PikaPods is, and about the apps. [00:03:32] What’s the difference between Heroku, Netlify, and PikaPods? [00:04:29] Since you can’t run your own stuff and you can’t edit the apps, Manu explains how this is an open source marketplace. We hear about PikaPods user base, how long he’s been up and running, and how many people are using the platform. [00:06:11] Manu explains the one source of revenue they provide to open source office. [00:09:06] We hear Manu’s selling point he pitches to open source maintainers and open source projects. [00:11:45] Why did Manu choose to work with open source projects to host when there are other things available to him? Why PikaPods? [00:13:32] Justin brings up pricing on PikaPods site and comments a trend with the ones that paid the least had the most demands. He wonders how Manu deals with that. [00:15:04] Justin wonders if the services are subsidized by using the BorgBase infrastructure, and Manu explains how they are totally separate, and he tells us about his team. [00:16:31] We hear if there are any collabs with maintainers Manu is working with since there are a lot of projects he hosts. [00:18:02] Find out PikaPods most popular app, if there’s a limit, and if bandwidth is an issue. [00:21:17] Manu shares some things he would like to do in the future with PikaPods. [00:23:35] How does Manu position himself in the ecosystem and are there other things that could be used in collaboration with PikaPods that makes it easier for maintainers? [00:25:37] Find out where you can follow Manu and PikaPods online. Quotes [00:10:08] “Hosting is not a good fit for part-time maintainers because it’s a big responsibility.” [00:12:20] “The motivating event for me was the Log4j Vulnerability.” Spotlight [00:26:42] Justin’s spotlight is pydantic, data validation and settings management using Python type hints. [00:27:10] Richard’s spotlight is Amna Shamim. [00:27:36] Manu’s spotlight is Uptime Kuma, a fancy self-hosted monitoring tool. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] Richard Littauer Twitter Justin Dorfman Twitter PikaPods PikaPods Twitter Apache Log4j Vulnerability pydantic Amna Shamim Uptime Kuma Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Manuel Riel.

Guest Ruth Cheesley Panelists Richard Littauer | Ben Nickolls | Eriol Fox | Justin Dorfman Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we are excited to have as our guest, Ruth Cheesley, joining us from the UK. She is an open-source advocate and Project Lead for Mautic at Acquia. We invited Ruth on this podcast because we don’t seem to have enough talks from people who are part of an actual community of coders. Today, Ruth tells us all about Mautic and her job there as Project Lead, she fills us in on Drupal and Acquia, and a tool they used in managing community health called, Savannah. We’ll also hear Ruth’s strategy when she helped with governance, why Open Source Friday is so important, she explains how she diversifies the contributor base, and we hear her ten-year vision for Mautic she’s working on. Go ahead and download this episode now to learn more! [00:02:38] Ruth explains what Mautic is, how she became the Project Lead and being on the Community Leadership Team at Joomla. [00:04:48] Find out the difference between Joomla, Drupal, Acquia, and Mautic. [00:06:17] From someone that organizes open source communities at his job, Justin asks Ruth what tools she uses, and she tells us about one called, Savannah. [00:08:54] Ruth tells us about what her strategy was when she helped with governance. [00:12:47] Richard wonders if the assessment also applies to Mautic and if Mautic is just the same as every other open source project on the web. [00:16:03] Eriol asks Ruth to tell us some success stories or things that have been tricky between different kinds of functions within the open source. [00:19:14] We learn how Ruth sees her role or the roles of other people who are being paid as being part of a sustainable path for Mautic itself, and how money has a play in the ecosystem as well as attribution. [00:21:59] Ruth explains if Acquia pays for full-time engineers and for traditional coder roles for Mautic, and she tells us about Open Source Friday. [00:24:20] Eriol wonders if there’s anything people can go read or listen to around how smaller organizations or individuals can make that kind of contribution sustainable and are there things we can implement. [00:27:09] Ruth tells us about a partner’s program they created in Mautic. [00:29:27] How does Ruth manage to diversify the contributor base, given that not everyone has the access or time to do that sort of work? [00:32:01] Ruth shares a ten-year vision with a three-year strategy for Mautic. [00:34:10] Find out where you can follow Ruth online. Quotes [00:09:14] “There wasn’t really a community empowerment process to set up workflows and training for people to take on the releases, so the project just sort of slowed down.” [00:32:28] “It’s quite tricky during longer term plans when you have lots of businesses that are depending on your software, because what one business thinks the product should do is maybe different to what another business thinks the product should do.” Spotlight [00:35:27] Justin’s spotlight is Tour de Source newsletter. [00:35:46] Eriol’s spotlight is Fantasy Map Generator. [00:36:20] Ben’s spotlight is Roden open source bike design. [00:37:02] Richard’s spotlight is Richard Matthews and his Oyster Yachts, and the Royal Naval Tot Club of Antigua & Barbuda. [00:37:46] Ruth’s spotlight is Ardour, a tool to compose music. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] Richard Littauer Twitter Ben Nickolls Twitter Justin Dorfman Twitter Eriol Fox Twitter Ruth Cheesley Twitter Ruth Cheesley LinkedIn Ruth Cheesley Website Mautic Joomla Sustain Podcast-Episode 109: Dries Buytaert of Drupal on Balancing Makers and Takers to Scale and Sustain Open Source Drupal Mautic Open-Source Marketing Automation Project (Open Collective) Savannah Mautic Community Manifesto Working in Public: The Making and Maintenance of Open Source Software by Nadia Eghbal Google Season of Docs Open Source Friday Acquia’s Drupal Acceleration Team Acquia’s response to the Mautic Community Manifesto Mautic Community Governance Model Response to Community Consultation on the Governance Model Proposal Establishing an incentivised partners programme in an open source project Tour de Source Fantasy Map Generator Roden Oyster Yachts Royal Naval Tot Club of Antigua & Barbuda Ardour Ardour-GitHub Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Ruth Cheesley.

Panelists Richard Littauer | Deb Nicholson | Alyssa Wright | Josep Prat | Duane O’Brien Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We have an exciting episode today because just like long haul truckers, open source maintainers are the people who are keeping the world alive with open source. What we’re excited about is a talk that we gave at OSPOCon in Austin. The talk was called, Panel Discussion: A How-to Guide for Contributing to Open Source as an Employee. This discussion was super important because employees do put a lot of work into open source code, and we wanted to talk about how to contribute to open source better. So, along with Richard, we have four other esteemed colleagues that were a part of this amazing talk, and we decided to put it on this podcast because it represents an initiative that is going to try to showcase to companies how to authentically participate in open source. The panelists joining us are Deb Nicholson from the Python Software Foundation, Alyssa Wright from Bloomberg, Josep Prat from Aiven, and Duane O’Brien from Indeed. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out more! [00:05:23] Duane starts us off by giving us a little history lesson on the Principles of Authentic Participation and how we got to where we are with the work today. [00:09:01] The panelists will go through and explain what they think it means to be an authentic participant in open source by going through the principles in order. Josep explains Principle 1: Starts Early. [00:10:24] Deb explains _Principle 2: Puts the Community First: the collective holds the timeline. _ [00:11:10] Alyssa explains Principle 3: Starts With Listening. [00:12:32] Duane explains Principle 4: Has Transparent Motivations. [00:13:45] Josep explains Principle 5: Enforces Respectful Behavior. [00:15:15] Richard explains Principle 6: Ends Gracefully. [00:16:05] The last one is a fun one which is _Principle 0: Don’t be a Jerk _;) [00:16:58] Duane talks about some of the behaviors that were discussed with the principles so that they make more sense. [00:20:23] The panelists let us know what we can do to make sure these principles are something that companies can adopt. [00:25:20] Deb touches on commitments or cooperation commitments that people have signed up for and she tells us about the GPL Cooperation Commitment. [00:31:35] Alyssa tells us about their intent to finalize the principles by the end of summer and put it out for community review and feedback, as well as speaking about it as OSPOCon Europe 2022 in September. TODO GUIDE: Employee Open Source Engagement Guide Principle 1: Starts Early Principle 2: Puts the Community First: the collective holds the timeline Principle 3: Starts With Listening Principle 4: Has Transparent Motivations Principle 5: Enforces Respectful Behavior Principle 6: Ends Gracefully Principle 0: Don’t be a Jerk ;) Spotlight [00:33:52] Deb’s spotlight is Duane O’Brien. [00:34:13] Duane’s spotlights are the book A Prayer for the Crown-Shy by Becky Chambers, and to take thirty minutes to sit outside and watch people having fun because it will change your day. [00:35:08] Alyssa’s spotlight is cold showers and AC. [00:35:36] Josep’s spotlight is to do work with people you never knew before. [00:36:25] Richard’s spotlight is Capital Grounds, a café in downtown Montpelier, Vermont, and an amazing Irish barista that works there. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] Richard Littauer Twitter Deb Nicholson Twitter Alyssa Wright Twitter Josep Prat Twitter Duane O’Brien Twitter TODO Group Issues-GitHub Principles of Authentic Participation Justin W. Flory Twitter Sustain 2021 Event Report TODO Guide: Employee Open Source Engagement Guide Principles of Authentic Participation-How do the Principles help? Contributor Covenant Code of Conduct Join the GPL Cooperation Commitment A Prayer for the Crown-Shy: A Monk and Robot Book by Becky Chambers Capital Grounds Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound

Guest Daniel S. Katz Panelists Richard Littauer | Ben Nickolls | Amanda Casari Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We are very excited to have as our guest Daniel S. Katz, who’s Chief Scientist at the National Center for Supercomputing Applications (NCSA), Research Associate Professor in Computer Science, Electrical and Computer Engineering, and the School of Information Sciences at the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign. He’s also a Better Scientific Software (BSSw) Fellow and is one of the founding editors and the current Associate Editor-in-Chief of The Journal of Open Source Software. His interest is in cyber infrastructure, advanced cyber infrastructure, and solving problems at scale, but he’s also interested in policy issues, citation, and credit mechanisms. Today, Dan is joining us to talk about the Research Software Alliance (ReSA), how academia has changed over the years, and why funding is necessary for these projects. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out more! [00:04:39] Dan explains what the Research Software Alliance is. [00:08:09] We find out the difference between the ReSA and URSSI communities. [00:11:34] Richard wonders why funding is necessary for all these projects and how do we diversify our funding to make sure that it’s not just Sloan that does this. [00:17:40] Ben asks if Dan thinks the conversation within academia and within research institutions is more mature and developed or more trustful compared to what’s happening in commercial industry right now. [00:22:00] We find out why research software is fundamentally different from corporate software from the makers perspective, and Dan shares with us a project he’s working on called Parsl. [00:26:25] Amanda brings up the Journal of Open Source Software and asks Dan if he thinks that software is viewed yet as a first class research project online with a published paper, and if not, what are the barriers and what things need to change in the academia industry. [00:30:38] If you’re a Research Software Engineer, Software Engineer, Engineer, or at companies or academies, find out how you can get involved in ReSA. Dan also tells us more about the importance of funding. [00:34:03] Find out the best places you can follow Dan online. Spotlight [00:34:45] Ben’s spotlight is his favorite piece of research work called FITS. [00:35:24] Amanda’s spotlight is a paper she read titled, “Did You Miss My Comment or What?” Understanding Toxicity in Open Source Discussions [00:36:37] Richard’s spotlight is a paper he read titled, “How many genera of Stercorariidae are there?” [00:37:29] Dan’s spotlight is the book, Radical Candor by Kim Scott. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] Richard Littauer Twitter Ben Nickolls Twitter Amanda Casari Twitter Daniel S. Katz Twitter Daniel S. Katz LinkedIn FAIR Principles RDA-Research Data Alliance FORCE11-The Future of Research Communications and e-Scholarship Sustain Podcast-Episode 88 and Episode 79 with Leah Silen The Sloan Foundation Technology program announces over $5M in new grants Research Software Alliance URSSI Karthik Ram-UC Berkeley FAIR for Research Software (FAIR4RS) Principles A survey of the state of the practice for research software in the United States (PeerJ Computer Science) OSPO++ Open Work in Academia Summit-RIT Software Sustainability Institute Parsl ROpenSci The Journal of Open Source Software NCSA Post-doc posting on policy for sustainable code in research software CIG-Computational Infrastructure for Geodynamics FITS “Did You Miss My Comment or What? Understanding Toxicity in Open-Source Discussions How many genera of Stercorariidae are there? (Springer Link) Radical Candor by Kim Scott Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Daniel S. Katz.

Guest Tracy Hinds Panelists Richard Littauer | Ben Nickolls Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We are very excited with our guest today, Tracy Hinds, who’s currently the CEO and Founder of Crow & Pitcher and serves as a CFO and board director at the Open Source Initiative. She’s also a long-time open source practitioner, maker, creator, and a powerful woman of glory, and has founded tons of different communities. Tracy is also a non-profit leader, a career transitioner, and a forever conflict manager. Today, we’ll learn more about Crow & Pitcher and the Community Committee (CommComm) in the Node.js Foundation. Also, we’ll hear Tracy’s thoughts on what she thinks the role is for Product Managers, Program Managers, and Project Managers in open source. Go ahead and download this episode to learn more! [00:02:05] Tracy tells us more about her journey to becoming the Founder of Crow & Pitcher. [00:04:25] Since Tracy was instrumental is the Node.js community for setting up Community Committee (CommComm), she tells us more about it. [00:09:25] Tracy mentions how having an understanding board is essential to the health of the organization. [00:12:51] We hear Tracy’s thoughts on how she feels about the role for Product Managers, Program Managers, and Project Managers in open source. [00:16:19] Ben wonders if there was any work within CommComm to try and create that separation and is that something Tracy thinks is more of a challenge within open source. Tracy explains the criticism about core contributors not being open to input. [00:19:58] We hear Tracy’s thoughts on what she thinks is the best way to talk to someone to let them know you want to be in a Project Manager role or Product Management role. [00:23:56] Ben wonders what can people do who are working in a code centric open source project, to make themselves and their work more open and amenable to people that come in a more product management or project management capacity? [00:27:24] Find out the difference between a Product Manager, Project Manager, and Program Manager. [00:30:47] Tracy tells us where you can follow her online. Quotes [00:08:12] “Everyone gets broken down by the amount of work and ambition in open source.” [00:11:07] “I kind of love when things get deprecated because one, it means people are paying attention enough to notice you don’t need these things anymore, and it means that things are still changing, and I think that’s an important sign in a project.” [00:14:06] “I think it’s really interesting to think of many open source projects as products.” [00:18:30] “Every project needs documentation and people being compensated for documentation.” [00:20:40] (On how to get a role as PM in OSS): “It helps to clarify a problem.” [00:21:13] “They need to build trust.” [00:25:02] “A lot of people have open source code projects, but not open collaboration.” [00:28:58] “You’re the goalie.” Spotlight [00:31:42] Ben’s spotlight is making a Swamp Cooler. [00:32:12] Richard’s spotlight is Bryan Hughes. [00:33:00] Tracy’s spotlight is her exposure to JSConf’s bringing her to where she is today. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] Richard Littauer Twitter Ben Nickolls Twitter Tracy Hinds LinkedIn Tracy Hinds Twitter Crow & Pitcher Crow & Pitcher Twitter Node.js Community Committee (CommComm) Sustain Open Source Design Podcast Let’s Talk Docs Podcast Swamp Cooler Bryan Hughes Twitter JSConf Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Tracy Hinds.

Guest Cornelius Schumacher Panelists Richard Littauer | Ben Nickolls Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We’re very excited to have as our guest, Cornelius Schumacher, who works as the Open Source Steward at DB Systel, helping teams to successfully use and contribute to open source. Today, we’ll have discussions with Cornelius about what it means to be an Open Source Steward at DB Systel, what it means for the world of open source, and how he brings his extended history of working with KDE and other open source communities into this position. Go ahead and download this episode now to learn more! [00:02:44] Cornelius tells us what he does as an Open Source Steward at DB Systel, how big DB Systel is, and how many people work under him. [00:07:18] Find out if Cornelius sees himself as being a civil servant or as being more enterprise based in terms of how his OSPO is situated compared to other OSPOs. [00:08:53] We learn how Cornelius’s journey and experience has been with license compliance over the last three years. [00:11:26] Ben asks Cornelius if there’s been a conversation about what’s been happening in the U.S. with the Biden administration’s security of open source and the supply chain security concept, and Richard wonders if the German Sustainable Open Source Fund is also included in that discussion. [00:14:07] We hear what environmental sustainability looks like for Cornelius. [00:20:12] Cornelius fills us in on the German group, the report they made, and how they think about autonomy. [00:21:28] We learn more about how Cornelius is interfacing with projects to make them more autonomous and sustainable, and how he’s helping the open source community at large through his work at Deutsche Bahn. [00:25:19] Richard brings up a blog post Cornelius wrote, and Cornelius talks more about how his journey has evolved. [00:30:38] Cornelius shares advice on what he would say if someone wanted to work in open source but they don’t have the free time. [00:33:18] Find out where you follow Cornelius and his work online. Quotes [00:15:19] “Still, software has a big influence on energy consumption, but also on how systems are designed, what you can do with them, and how much control you have.” [00:28:24] “I think we should pay people properly.” [00:28:53] “Exploiting people is not sustainable.” Spotlight [00:34:54] Ben’s spotlight is Flipper Zero. [00:35:45] Richard’s spotlight is Erasmus+. [00:36:29] Cornelius’s spotlight is NEdit. Links SustainOSS Sustain Podcast SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] Richard Littauer Twitter Ben Nickolls Twitter Cornelius Schumacher Twitter Cornelius Schumacher LinkedIn Cornelius Schumacher Blog Cornelius Schumacher GitHub Cornelius Schumacher Wikipedia DB Systel Deutsche Bahn accelerates climate neutral target (Global Railway Review) First Ever Eco-Certified Computer Program: KDE’s Popular PDF Reader Okular Sustain Podcast-Episode 82: Steve Helvie and the Open Compute Project Sustain Podcast-Episode 49: What OpenUK Does with Amanda Brock & Andrew Katz Open Source Guide: Best Practices for Open Source Software Version 3.0 (bitkom) Don’t sell free software cheap by Cornelius Schumacher Flipper Zero-Kickstarter Erasmus+ NEdit Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Cornelius Schumacher.

Panelists Georg Link | Richard Littauer | Dawn Foster | Willem Jiang | Amanda Casari | Ben Nickolls Show Notes Hello and welcome to CHAOSScast Community podcast, where we share use cases and experiences with measuring open source community health. Elevating conversations about metrics, analytics, and software from the Community Health Analytics Open Source Software, or short CHAOSS Project, to wherever you like to listen. Today’s episode is a shared podcast between Sustain and CHAOSS. We have six panelists to talk about maintaining open source and we’ll also do a quick update from a previous episode and talk about what has changed and what maintaining open source looks like today. The panelists we have are Georg Link, Richard Littauer, Dawn Foster, Willem Jiang, Amanda Casari, and Ben Nickolls. Download this episode now to find out much more, and don’t forget to subscribe for free to this podcast on your favorite podcast app and share this podcast with your friends and colleagues! [00:00:38] The six panelists introduce themselves. [00:04:04] Richard details more about what Sustain is, Georg and Dawn explain CHAOSS and what’s going on there, and Amanda shares what she likes about CHAOSS. [00:13:15] Dawn talks about the kind of community members CHAOSS has, Willem tells us about the Asia community, and Ben shares his views on the Sustain community. [00:19:22] Georg asks if there’s been any updates on the funding situation in open source and if anything has changed there and Ben updates us. [00:22:34] When thinking about resources, who gets paid, how money flows, and how we identify when help is needed, Amanda wonders how that’s changed in the last few years in the CHAOSS community. [00:25:09] Richard shares from his angle what he’s seen about what has changed in the past two years in open source. [00:27:09] Ben shares his views on the supply chain conversation about who is making money in open source. [00:29:06] Since security is such a hot topic, Georg asks if we’re prepared in all the open source projects to really focus on this topic or if we have to upskill everyone, and we hear Ben’s thoughts on this. [00:31:02] Richard explains how you can get involved in Sustain happenings that are going on, and Georg and Dawn inform us about some projects, working groups, and other things going on with CHAOSS. [00:39:17] Find out where you can get involved with Sustain and CHAOSS. Spotlight [00:34:21] Georg’s pick is meeting with an online local group and doing cool things together. [00:35:06] Richard’s pick is going on a super long hike and buying a hydration pack (CamelBak Pouch). [00:35:56] Dawn’s spotlight is GraphiQL. [00:36:34] Ben’s spotlights are taking care of Swifts on his roof, and the book, Swifts and Us: The Life of the Bird that Sleeps in the Sky. [00:36:55] Amanda’s pick is the book, Burnout: The Secret to Unlocking the Stress Cycle. [00:38:03] Willem’s pick is ApacheCon Asia 2022. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse Sustain Podcast [email protected] CHAOSS CHAOSS Project Twitter CHAOSScast Podcast CHAOSS Community Participate [email protected] Ford Foundation Georg Link Twitter Richard Littauer Twitter Dawn Foster Twitter Willem Jiang Twitter Amanda Casari Twitter Ben Nickolls Twitter Sustain Podcast-Episode 65: CHAOSS and Sustain: A Joint Podcast Ecosyste.ms xkcd Executive Order on Improving the Nation’s Cybersecurity (The White House) Sustain 2021 Event Report Mozilla-Open Source Archetypes: A Framework For Purposeful Open Source May 2018 SonarQube CamelBak Crux 3-Liter Water Reservoir GraphiQL Swifts and Us: The Life of the Bird that Sleeps in the Sky by Sarah Gibson Burnout: The Secret to Unlocking the Stress Cycle by Emily Nagoski, PhD and Amelia Nagoski, DMA ApacheCon Asia 2022 Working in Public: The Making and Maintenance of Open Source Software by Nadia Eghbal

Guest Ana Jiménez Santamaría Panelists Richard Littauer | Justin Dorfman Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we have joining us as our guest, Ana Jiménez Santamaría, who’s the TODO Group OSPO Program Manager. Our conversations bring us to finding out how Ana got into open source, the history of the TODO Group, and she goes in depth about the OSPO Mind Map Project she’s working on and how you can contribute to it. Ana talks about some OSPO workshops coming up, she shares a vision for how OSPOs interact with the open source community, and what she’s doing with the OSPOlogy series. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out more! [00:02:04] Ana unfolds how she got into open source. [00:04:31] We learn the history of the TODO Group and the context within the greater Linux Foundation ecosystem. [00:08:43] Ana details the OSPO Mind Map Project. [00:12:35] How does Ana deal with the needs of an OSPO? [00:15:37] Find out how you can contribute to the Mind Map. [00:18:18] There’s some OSPOs workshops coming up encouraging people to collaborate more, and Ana tells us more about them. [00:21:35] Ana explains adopting open source faster in the organizations in a healthier way. [00:24:48] We hear some ideas from Ana on how to engage with communities in a way that honors the original intent of the people who are working on those projects. [00:26:23] Justin asks Ana if Duane O’Brien from Indeed was involved in the talks with Spotify. [00:27:03] Ana shares a near future vision for how OSPOs interact with the open source community. [00:28:14] Richard asks if Ana has any thoughts on the long game for how we invest sustainably in our digital commons which involves open source. [00:30:23] We learn what Ana’s doing at OSPOlogy and TODO to help the third world. [00:33:58] Find out where you can follow Ana on the internet. Quotes [00:13:20] “Until compliance is covered, the organization cannot move forward.” [00:22:51] “What OSPOs are for is to put a strategy and alignment on top of all the open source efforts and to start building a healthy open source culture within the organizations to take real actions and start contributing back to the community.” [00:27:25] “If you don’t have a strategy on top of the open source efforts, if you’re just doing open source ad hoc, the organizations might be harming the open source ecosystem.” Spotlight [00:34:34] Justin’s spotlights are TypeScript ESLint and Learning TypeScript by Josh Goldberg. [00:35:03] Richard’s spotlight is Ruy Adorno, an awesome developer. [00:35:26] Ana’s spotlight is GrimoireLab from CHAOSS Project, and the tool Perceval. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] Richard Littauer Twitter Justin Dorfman Twitter Ana Jiménez Santamaría Twitter Ana Jiménez Santamaría LinkedIn Kimetsu No Yaiba Opening 1-Demon Slayer Gurenge Full Band Cover (YouTube) Bitergia CHAOSScast Podcast TODO Group TODO Group Associates A New Framework for In-Person OSPO Workshops: TODO Group Seeks Collaborators OSPO ++ OSPO Zone OSPO Mind Map-TODO Group OSPOlogy: The Study of OSPOs (TODO Group) TODO (OSPO) Group-GitHub OSPO Mind Map Project-GitHub Sustain Podcast-Episode 104: Duane O’Brien and Mandy Grover on Investing in Open Source: The FOSS Contributor Fund TypeScript ESLint Learning TypeScript: Enhance Your Web Development Skills Using Type-Safe JavaScript by Josh Goldberg Ruy Adorno Twitter GrimoireLab Perceval Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Ana Jiménez Santamaría.

Guest Bolaji Ayodeji Panelists Richard Littauer | Justin Dorfman | Ben Nickolls Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, our guest is Bolaji Ayodeji, who’s a Software Engineer, Content Creator, Community Engineer, and currently works as a Developer Advocate at Commerce Layer. Bolaji is a member of the Sustain community and has done so much with Open Source Community Africa (OSCA). Our conversations take us through learning how Bolaji got into open source, being a part of the OSCA community and the Sustain Africa session, and what OSCA is all about. We’ll also hear about the communities and companies that are part of OSCA, things we can do to help the next generation of open source contributors and developers from African nations, and Bolaji highlights two Sustain sessions that he thought were really cool and what he enjoyed most about them. Go ahead and download this episode now! [00:01:39] Bolaji tells us how he got into open source. [00:03:05] We learn how Bolaji ended up being a part of the OSCA community and how his experience was joining them. [00:04:20] At the OSCA event there was a giant Sustain track, so Bolaji talks about how that happened and what happened there. [00:09:04] Now that there’s been a few events that happened, Bolaji fills us in on how the conversation has been evolving, and he tells us about DataFest in Africa. [00:12:47] Justin talks about Bolaji’s blog and his tutorials around data science and he wonders if he’s giving any talks about data visualization and if there’s any organizations he’s working with that he can take their data and visualize it to the community. [00:15:30] We hear about the communities and companies that are part of OSCA. [00:18:21] Find out how many people came to OSCA this year, and how many people that attended are working on open source as part of their jobs or in addition to their jobs. [00:20:02] Bolaji shares his views on what we should be doing to ensure the next generation of open source contributors and developers from African nations are incentivized and able to join in that community and contribute. [00:23:16] Richard asks Bolaji if there has been a lot of buy-in about open source from other countries in Africa who’ve come to OSCA, is there a particular reason open source blossoming in Nigeria, and how is it being spread out to places like Ghana or other countries. [00:25:25] Bolaji explains if there’s anything large companies can do in developed nations to help the open source community in Africa. [00:27:22] What sessions was Bolaji most excited about at the Sustain meeting. [00:29:36] When we talk about documentation in OSCA, Richard asks if as a community, Bolaji talks in English or if there’s small subgroups which speak in languages also spoken by participants in open source. [00:34:51] Find out where you can follow Bolaji and OSCA on the internet. Quotes [00:26:37] “The same things that people in the western world have access to, Africans also working in open source should also be able to have access too without bias.” Spotlight [00:35:49] Justin’s spotlight is his Non-Code Contributor Newsletter. [00:36:21] Ben’s spotlights are a blog post by Abdulsamod Azeez on Contributing to Open Source as a Data Scientist, and a list of Open Source Data Science Projects you can contribute to by Aden Haussmann. [00:36:54] Richard’s spotlight is Heather Piwowar. [00:37:24] Bolaji’s spotlight is TypeScript Error Translator by Matt Pocock. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] Richard Littauer Twitter Justin Dorfman Twitter Ben Nickolls Twitter Bolaji Ayodeji Twitter Bolaji Ayodeji LinkedIn Bolaji Ayodeji website Commerce Layer Open Source Community Africa Sustain Africa 2022 Community Report DataFest Africa 2022 Sustain Podcast-Episode 122: A conversation with Stefano Maffulli of the OSI The Non-Code Contributor- Issue #35 Contributing to Open Source as a Data Scientist by Abdulsamond Azeez Open-Source Data Science Projects You Can Contribute to Today by Aden Haussmann Heather Piwowar Twitter TypeScript Error Translator-Git Hub Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Bolaji Ayodeji.

Guest Anita Ihuman | Atinuke Oluwabamikemi Kayode Panelists Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we’ll be talking to two guests who are a part of the Open Source Community Africa (OSCA), which has a conference every year or so in Nigeria, where a lot of people come together. We’ve invited people who facilitated workshops at this event to talk about what they facilitated, what they’re interested in as far as sustaining open source, and to share their personal story. Our first guest is Anita Ihuman, who’s a Developer, an Advocate for open source, and an open source contributor. We also have Atinuke Oluwabamikemi Kayode (Bami), who’s a Python Developer as part of OSCA, a Community Manager at Tunga and Layer5, and she helped facilitate a workshop on Burnout and Mental Health at the last Sustain event. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out much more! Anita: [00:02:23] Anita shares her story how she got involved with open source and how she got to where she is today. [00:06:05] At OSCA, Anita was asked to facilitate the open source documentation workshop as part of the Sustain group, and she fills us in on how it went and how many people were at the workshop with her. [00:08:25] Anita wrote a blog explaining ten steps for the approach people can take to build better documentation, and she highlights a few of them. [00:13:36] We hear how engineers can get help to get better at documentation. [00:14:42] At the end of the blog post, Anita talked about how we can sustain open source communities and projects through documentation, and she shares her thoughts on the three main points. [00:17:20] Find out what’s next for Anita and where you can find her online. Bami: [00:20:18] Bami shares what she does as a Community Manager at Tunga and Layer5. [00:21:56] We hear how Bami ended up at OSCA and how she ended up in the Sustain track as the facilitator for this session talking about burnout. [00:25:53] Find out how the role of self-awareness plays in burnout, and the role that companies in the ecosystem play in stopping burnout for maintainers and developers. [00:32:19] Bami tells us about setting boundaries which are super important. [00:35:01] Find out where you can follow Bami on the internet and she shares advice on the importance of taking time for yourself and communicating to others. Quotes Anita: [00:06:21] “I was able to attend and learn so much, and it made me realize that I could actually teach.” [00:06:53] “Do you actually read documentation for a project? And I found that so many people don’t. And the reason is that it’s either out of date or it’s not informative enough.” [00:15:02] “[We should] put together a standard for documentation for every open source project.” Bami: [00:27:23] “We have to rest at some point and it’s okay to have that rest.” [00:31:11] “If the community is not healthy, contributors will not come back.” [00:31:19] “How do you want to sustain open source software if the communities are not healthy? So, it is important that organizations take effort in helping, in creating awareness of how to handle mental health because we know mental health burnout is inevitable.” Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] Anita Ihuman Twitter Anita Ihuman LinkedIn Anita Ihuman website Open Source Community Africa-Sustain Africa 2022 Community Report Scalable Onboarding Let’s Talk Docs Podcast [email protected] Atinuke Oluwabamikemi Twitter Atinuke Oluwabamikemi Kayode LinkedIn Atinuke Oluwabamikemi Kayode website CHAOSS Tunga Layer5 OSCA Report: Burnout and Mental Health Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guests: Anita Ihuman and Atinuke Oluwabamikemi Kayode.

Guest Per Ploug Krogslund Panelists Richard Littauer | Ben Nickolls Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Our guest today is Per Ploug Krogslund, who’s the Open Source Tech Lead at Spotify. He’s with us to talk in-depth about the FOSS Fund he’s setting up with Spotify, to pay maintainers of independent projects and give back to open source developers. Go ahead and download this episode now to hear more! [00:01:30] Per tells us his background, how he got involved with Spotify and open source, and he tells us about the OSPO office at Spotify. [00:05:46] Ben wonders how the conversation evolved in Spotify about how an OSPO would work there and how he got to be the one person that’s representing the OSPO. [00:09:47] Per explains the FOSS Fund he’s setting up to give back to open source. [00:11:50] Richard wonders what Per is doing to make sure that the participation is authentic and aligns to the values of the people who are in those projects beforehand so that he doesn’t come off as an extractive corporate company. [00:14:22] What is Per doing to make sure there’s enough governance set up where the money is being used with the project to make developer’s lives happy? [00:15:55] Find out how people working at Spotify are involved in the process of deciding who’s going to receive what they’re supposed to receive, and Per tells us how he’s thinking about next year looking at the success of the program he’s setting up this year. [00:21:14] When Per is having conversations in Spotify about what the FOSS Funds look like in terms of money, we find out if there’s any other investments that are competing alongside that. Also, is InnerSource a thing inside Spotify? [00:24:41] Per explains what’s going on with diversity of projects right now and if there’s any thoughts deeper down the dependency stack and helping projects. [00:28:02] Richard wonders if Per’s supporting projects which go towards Spotify’s larger goals in the long run of different markets and different technologies ensuring faster transmission, and if he’s thinking about the dependencies which he will have in the future and supporting those ecosystems as opposed to individual projects. [00:32:56] In terms of degrowth and the possibility of having a sustainable Spotify, Richard asks Per’s thoughts on if there’s any room to talk about open source policy. Ben shares his thoughts on a possible direction to take with a cooperative community based project. [00:39:20] Find out where you follow Per on the web. Quotes [00:10:06] “We’re trying to just have a fair relationship with the people we depend on.” Spotlight [00:39:50] Ben’s spotlight is fs Timer. [00:40:35] Richard’s spotlight is Jim Kang and his project, GODTRIBUTES. [00:41:24] Per’s spotlight is a Spotify project, Basic Pitch. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] Richard Littauer Twitter Ben Nickolls Twitter Per Ploug Twitter Per Ploug LinkedIn Spotify for Developers Spotify Sustain Podcast-Episode 71: Hong Phuc Dang, founder of FOSSAsia, on how to build communities across boundaries Sustain Podcast-Episode 121: FOSS Backstage 2022 with Cornelius Schumacher, Yadira Sánchez Benítez & Thomas Fricke Sustain Podcast-Episode 120: FOSS Backstage 2022 with Rich Bowen & Paul Berschick Sustain Podcast-Episode 119: FOSS Backstage 2022 with Ana Jiménez Santamaría and McCoy Smith Sustain Podcast-Episode 118: FOSS Backstage 2022 with Florian Gilcher & Silona Bonewald Spotify Says It Paid $7 Billion In Royalties In 2021 Amid Claims Of Low Pay From Artists (Forbes) Announcing the Spotify FOSS Fund (Spotify R&D) fs Timer Jim Kang Website GODTRIBUTES Basic Pitch Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Per Ploug Krogslund.

Panelists Richard Littauer | Justin Dorfman | Ben Nickolls | Amanda Casari Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today’s episode is all panelists, no guests, and our conversations are focusing on the question, “What does sustaining open source actually mean?” Each of the panelists share their opinions, give feedback, and tell stories around sustaining open source. We’ll also learn the origins of SustainOSS, the definition of a “sustainer,” and we hear about the OSCA Sustain Community Report 2022 that recently came out and gave Justin chills just reading it. Go ahead and download this episode now, and if you have any thoughts you would like to share, please email us! [00:01:30] Justin gives us the backstory of how Sustain started. [00:06:14] Since Ben came up with the definition of a “Sustainer” he goes in depth what it means. [00:10:05] Amanda poses a question when we think about sustaining, how do we think about helping with graceful endings and exits? [00:17:42] Richard tells us sustaining is figuring out and having an ecosystem level approach of what open source is, and what’s needed now. Justin shares a story about Chad Whitacre changing the game when it came to donating to open source. [00:20:53] Ben takes the conversation away from money and talks about Open Collective and finding a way to sustain the work without money. [00:22:47] Richard brings up the environmental sustainability of open source as an entire thing and how the environmental cost of training AI is massive. [00:26:04] Richard mentions he finds interesting what sort of conversations happened on an ecosystem level between all the participants and all the stakeholders, and Amanda expresses a concern she has. Richard and Amanda talk about giving honor to people who do honorable things. [00:29:45] We hear some open questions from Richard about what he thinks is what sustaining means now, and Amanda talks about the concept around open source sustainability that a lot of people are focusing on. Quotes [00:09:51] “Forking is not a threat, it’s a promise.” [00:11:36] “The whole sustainability thing is about a combination of incentives and market failures.” [00:13:24] “Two researchers from South Africa have been looking at contributions to internet standards over the past twenty years from across the world, largely from within Africa, and they’ve seen a massive peak in 2005, and then it’ll die off.” [00:16:24] “Open source is a jellyfish and jellyfish of course have many eyes.” [00:29:34] “Honoring people for their work and giving them visibility, making sure that they’re seen is a great step forward that we can all be working on because that’s definitely a gap that still exists.” [00:31:06] “The xkcd comic showing digital infrastructure as one small person in Kansas is great, but it ignores every other block in that comic. Who is funding the blocks in those comics, who has governance to it, who was maintaining it, what are their intentions, and what is their final destinations that they want to be going to?” Spotlight [00:36:48] Justin’s spotlight is recognizing a Non-Code Contributor, Erin McKean and his newsletter that comes out a couple times a month. [00:37:11] Ben’s spotlight is Play Monikers. [00:37:59] Amanda’s spotlight is the Elevator Saga game. [00:38:40] Richard’s spotlight is Nicole Kelner, who’s a climate artist. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] [email protected] Richard Littauer Twitter Justin Dorfman Twitter Ben Nickolls Twitter Amanda Casari Twitter Sustain 2021 Event Report SustainOSS Report 2017 (with definition of “sustainer”) OSCA-Sustain Africa 2022 Community Report Sustain Podcast-Episode 96: Chad Whitacre and how Sentry is giving $150k to their OSS Dependencies Sovereign Tech Fund Fuligo septica The Non-Code Contributor Newsletter by Justin Dorfman Play Monikers Elevator Saga Elevator Saga-GitHub Nicole Kelner Twitter Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound

Guest Marie Kochsiek | Hélène Martin Panelists Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to a special episode of Sustain/GitHub Maintainer Month, which is a short series of podcasts where we’re focusing on maintainers of open source, what they do with their experience, and how they contribute to the sustainability of their projects. Our first guest is Marie Kochsiek, who’s a developer and one of the maintainers of drip, a menstrual cycle and fertility tracking app. Marie goes in depth about the drip app, challenges she has as a maintainer, and since the supreme court repealed Roe v. Wade, she shares advice on what people can do with their menstruation trackers to stay safe. Our next guest is Hélène Martin, who’s the CTO of ODK, a platform for offline data collection that’s used by organizations like Red Cross. We’ll hear about ODK’s funding model, how Hélène has transitioned their governance strategy, we learn about their funding model, and she shares advice to maintainers who want to go to a higher level with their projects in open source. Go ahead and download this episode now! Marie: [00:01:19] Marie explains the drip app and how she ended up working on this project. [00:03:21] We find out how large the community is working on drip and how many users there are. [00:05:37] Since there are a lot of period tracking apps out there, Marie fills us in on how drip is different from other things out there. [00:08:16] Marie talks about some hurdles she overcame recently with her team. [00:10:06] We learn why Marie works on open source with her free time and what she does for her main work to work on this stuff. [00:11:51] What advice does Marie wish people would have given her when she first started out coding to make it easier. [00:13:28] Find out where you can contribute to her project. [00:16:00] With Roe v. Wade being overturned, Marie shares advice what people should do with their menstruation trackers. Hélène: [00:21:26] Hélène tells us what ODK is and how many users it has. [00:23:40 ] We learn how Hélène views herself as a maintainer of that ODK’s software and what it means for her. [00:24:42] In the past one and a half years Hélène transitioned her governance strategy, so she expands on what she transitioned to and why. [00:27:51] Richard wonders if Hélène’s source code has ever been forked, cloned, or if anyone has ever made their own company out of it. [00:29:38 ] We hear about ODK’s funding model and where they get their money to keep the work going. [00:30:13] Since we’ve heard the direction Hélène has taken with governance, Richard wonders how she has led that change as a CTO. Also, she tells us if she’s still getting into the weeds and writing commits. [00:34:47] Hélène shares advice for maintainers who are realizing they need to go to a higher level of abstraction to grow the projects they’re in. [00:37:33 ] If you want to read along and join the ODK community, find out where you can go to get involved, and where you can follow Hélène on the web. Quotes Marie: [00:08:35] “The best work we achieve is when we work on stuff collectively.” [00:10:53] “Open source work is also community work.” [00:12:03] “Things can take time.” Hélène: [00:28:16 ] “We think the pie is big enough.” [00:31:23] “I think it’s hard to jump between levels of abstraction.” [00:33:08 ] “I really think there are modes, and any given project can switch between them over time.” [00:34:48 ] “It’s really important to realize that there’s no one way to do open source.” [00:36:16] “A lot of times when people talk about open source, I think they mean the source is open AND.” Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse Sustain Podcast Invite Details [email protected] Richard Littauer Twitter Marie Kochsiek Twitter drip drip, the open-source cycle tracking app-GitHub drip-GitLab Hélène Martin Twitter Hélène Martin GitHub ODK Twitter ODK Hélène's profile on the ODK forum Credits Produced by Richard Littauer] Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guests: Hélène Martin and Marie Kochsiek.

Guest Mike McQuaid | Nina Breznik Panelists Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to a special episode of Sustain, where we interview Maintainers as part of GitHub Maintainer Month! On this episode, Richard is interviewing a few open source maintainers to talk about what it’s like to be a maintainer, how awesome they are, and what issues they may have being a maintainer. My first guest is Mike McQuaid, who works for GitHub and is one of the maintainers of Homebrew. Mike tells us all about Homebrew, how you can contribute, and the most fun thing about being a maintainer there. Also joining me is Nina Breznik, another awesome maintainer, Founder of RefugeesWork, Partner and Open Source Developer at Playproject, Community Organizer at Wizard Amigos, and she works on a DatDot project with serapath. Nina shares how it is for her being a maintainer, how she helps other people see it as art, not just science and math, but a more creative thing, and she tells us the project she had the most fun working on. Go ahead and download this episode now to learn more! Mike: [00:00:48] Mike explains what Homebrew is, the size of the community, and the usage. [00:01:46] How did Mike come to maintain Homebrew and the other twenty people and how did he pivot and make the switch elegantly? [00:04:08] Richard asks if Mike has any resources he can suggest to other maintainers. [00:05:04] Mike talks about burnout and when he works on Homebrew. [00:07:19] Mike shares advice to a first time open source person, and he tells us what advice he wishes someone had given him back in the day. [00:09:00] We learn from Mike the most fun thing about being a maintainer at Homebrew. [00:09:47] Find out how you can contribute to Mike’s project and where you can follow him on the web. Nina: [00:11:48] We have Nina joining us now and Richard shares her bio with us. We also hear what Nina is maintaining these days and what her code looks like. [00:14:41] Nina tells us about the number of projects she maintains in the sense of commit access and the size of the community that she’s working with. [00:17:30] Find out the hardest part for Nina when it comes to maintaining code. [00:18:47] Nina shares more about the RefugeesWork project she started which was the most magical experience for her. [00:21:36] What is Nina most looking forward to over the next five to ten years as a maintainer and what does she want to see happen with her work? [00:22:57] Nina shares what she wishes people had told her to make it easier for her when she first started coding. [00:24:27] We learn what Nina does in her community to ensure that designers or tech writers, etc., feel involved in the projects she works on. [00:27:15] Find out where you can follow Nina and her projects on the web. Quotes [00:01:59] “The best way to get involved with open source was solving a problem I had for myself.” [00:04:23] “Everything we do breaks down to human relationships and managing those and trying to have an environment where people are happy with each other.” [00:07:19] “What advice would you give to a first-time open source person? I think just strict boundaries.” [00:20:34] “I transitioned from social sciences and arts into coding because I wanted to get a skill. I wanted to be able to build something on my own and this was the first time I felt the power that I built something.” [00:21:45] “I would love to see more people learning to code, which is one of the reasons why I started Wizards Amigos Project because I feel that this really is literacy of the future.” [00:23:06] “They should have told me this is not all about math, but more like art.” Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] Richard Littauer Twitter Mike McQuaid Twitter Mike McQuaid Website Homebrew Sustain Podcast-Episode 117: Mike McQuaid of Homebrew on Sustainability Working on OSS Projects Nina Breznik Twitter serapath Twitter Google Summer of Code 2022 Program Announced Rails Girls Wizard Amigos DatDot Dat Ecosystem Mathias Buus Ok Distribute Blog Dat Foundation Governance Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guests: Mike McQuaid and Nina Breznik.

Guest Astor Nummelin Carlberg Panelists Richard Littauer | Amanda Casari | Ben Nickolls Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. On this episode, we have joining us, Astor Nummelin Carlberg, who’s the Executive Director of OpenForum Europe. OFE works with open technologies and public policy. Today, Astor goes in depth about a report he co-authored with another team of economists, and we also find out Astor’s thoughts on what we should do to make open source more sustainable, what his team at OFE does in terms of policy work, and he shares the challenges to everyone involved in the open source ecosystem and how you can engage in them. Go ahead and download this episode now to learn more! [00:01:11] Astor explains what OFE is. [00:04:20] We hear about a report that came out and how the economic impact of open source has been. [00:08:58] In thinking about policies and recommendations, Amanda wonders what information would help about understanding open source from a systems level that Astor hasn’t been able to access but would help with making better policy decisions. [00:12:19] Astor gives us his perspective on how we can best use OSPOs and OSPO networks to come together to release more data. [00:17:38] We hear Astor’s thoughts on the tension between working in public, protecting individual’s privacy, and the ability to work in public and not be a target of harassment, as well as working openly and allowing information to be transparent for people who are making large scale decisions. [00:20:18] Now that OFE has released this report, Richard wonders what we should do to make open source more sustainable and how can we do that. Astor also tells us the budget was secured for the Centre for Digital Sovereignty in Germany. [00:24:41] Astor tells us about his team and what they do in terms of policy work. [00:31:35] Ben wonders how we can enable that conversation with the government to happen more authentically and representatively. [00:34:00] Find out where you can follow Astor and OFE online. Quotes [00:07:15] “Open source is a good investment.” [00:07:26] “Open source is a greenfield for policy makers to figure out how to engage with this ecosystem.” [00:11:06] “Research and data access to open source is still severely underfunded.” [00:25:29] “The classic Cathedral and Bazaar metaphor works with policy very well.” Spotlight [00:35:44] Amanda’s spotlight is a paper recently published by colleagues of hers called, “The penumbra of open source.” [00:36:27] Ben’s spotlight is The Linux Foundation report on open source software security that was recently published. [00:37:01] Richard’s spotlights are two films he watched: Grandma and Blue Bayou. [00:37:29] Astor’s spotlights are Find Shelter and Frank Nagle’s new article in Brookings. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] Richard Littauer Twitter Amanda Casari Twitter Ben Nickolls Twitter Astor Nummelin Carlberg Twitter Astor Nummelin Carlberg LinkedIn OpenForum Europe The Impact of Open Source Software and Hardware on Technological Independence, Competitiveness and Innovation in the EU Economy (Open Research Community) Prof. Dr. Knut Blind-Fraunhofer ISI Sovereign Tech Fund Open Source Observatory (OSOR) Joinup Open Source Community List The Cathedral and the Bazaar Introducing Open Source Insights data in BigQuery to help secure software supply chains The penumbra of open source: projects outside of centralized platforms are longer maintained, more academic and more collaborative (Springer Open) The Linux Foundation and Open Source Software Security Foundation (OpenSSF) Gather Industry and Government Leaders for Open Source Software Security Summit II Grandma Blue Bayou Find Shelter-Accommodation for Ukrainians in France Strengthening digital infrastructure: A policy agenda for free and open source software (Brookings) Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Astor Nummelin Carlberg.

Guest Julia Ferraioli Panelists Richard Littauer | Justin Dorfman | Alyssa Wright Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we have joining us as our guest, Julia Ferraioli, who’s an open source human, co-founded Open Source Stories, and has been part of the Sustain community for a while. Our conversations today take us through learning about Julia’s background, what Open Source Stories is, and how she quantifies a black swan open source. We also learn about two camps of people who work on open source that Julia encountered, a detailed explanation of what “matters” means, and what Julia does when she works on standardizing open source information. Go ahead and download this episode now to hear more! [00:01:40] Julia talks about her history and how she got to where she is today. [00:02:43] What is Open Source Stories? [00:06:05] We find out the story how Julia and Amanda Casari ended up working together on Open Source Stories. [00:10:48] Julia explains how she quantifies a black swan open source and what she worries about in terms of recognition. [00:15:11] Alyssa asks Julia if there are people that are contributing to open source projects that don’t feel recognized and acknowledged and if there’s an invisible community that we’re trying to not only grow and diversify. [00:16:32] Justin shares a story about Guist, a designer he worked on a Zsh project with. [00:18:07] Julia brings up how you can sponsor a developer on GitHub, but wonders if you can sponsor a designer on GitHub. [00:20:00] Alyssa asks Julia why we have to recognize people in order to sustain the open source software communities. [00:23:35] Richard brings up the topic of recognition of individuals and how do we make sure that recognition is equal across the board, and Julia shares her thoughts. [00:26:57] Julia explains two camps she’s encountered, the camp where the contribution matters and the camp where the whole person matters. [00:30:03] We find out what “matters” means to the whole ecosystem, what matters to a sub ecosystem, and what matters to a project. [00:32:42] What does Julia work on when she works on standardizing open source information? [00:35:18] Find out where you can follow Julia online. Quotes [00:08:14] “The conversations that we have tend to lead to some really interesting explorations and one of our talks was about black swans and open source.” [00:10:51] “I think it’s completely subjective.” [00:13:22] “We’ve made really good strides in recognizing contributions outside of code such as technical writing, triage, and code reviews.” [00:14:15] “It’s really important as more and more companies are relying on open source because it makes it into products.” Spotlight [00:36:22] Justin’s spotlight is The Non-Code Contributor newsletter. [00:36:57 Alyssa’s spotlight is Wikipedia for quick searches and seeing people outside and meeting each other in person. [00:37:50] Richard’s spotlight is Marquette University and the J.R.R. Tolkien Fandom Oral History Collection. [00:38:24] Julia's spotlight is a paper called Chalk: Materials and Concepts in Mathematics Research. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] Julia Ferraioli LinkedIn Julia Ferraioli Twitter Julia Ferraioli Website Julia Ferraioli LeadDev Open Source Stories Vermont Complex Systems Center StoryCorps Sustain Open Source Design Podcast Amanda Casari Twitter Z shell guist.eth Twitter Black Swan theory Bananas Are Berries? (Stanford Magazine) The Non-Code Contributor By Justin Dorfman The J.R.R. Tolkien Fandom Oral History Collection Chalk: Materials and Concepts in Mathematics Research by Michael J. Barany and Donald MacKenzie The Non-Code Contributor- Issue #32 by Justin Contributor Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Julia Ferraioli.

Guest Colin Eberhardt Panelists Richard Littauer | Ben Nickolls Show ask: Fill out this Survey for OSS in Europe! Link. Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, joining us as our guest is Colin Eberhardt, who’s the CTO at Scott Logic, which is a UK based software consultancy, and a member of FINOS. Colin tells us about Scott Logic, the journey he’s been on there, and how his view of open source has changed over the years being in this industry. We learn more about a talk he did on “Why I Love Open Source” and he goes in depth of what marketing means to him. Also, Colin explains what he calls the “roll up your sleeves and help model,” and find out about Beyond the Hype, a podcast by Scott Logic, and what it’s all about. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out more! [00:01:34] Colin tells us about Scott Logic and how he got interested in software sustainability. [00:03:15] Colin explains how his view of open source has changed over time and more about the journey he’s been on with Scott Logic. [00:06:04] Richard asks Colin if he sees donating money as an individual choice by the responsible members of the corporate environment or if there’s structural reasons to give back, and he tells us about a talk he did on “Why I Love Open Source.” [00:08:37] How does open source make you better at marketing? [00:12:12] Ben wonders how Colin sees the conversation happening on how organizations can sustain support, whether it’s open source work that they’re producing or consuming themselves. He explains what he calls the “roll up your sleeves and help model.” [00:16:16] Colin brings up a survey they ran with Fintech Open Source Foundation and one of the results he found fascinating. [00:17:54] Richard asks Colin if he’s thought about taxation, standards, or ways where people are required to contribute back to open source. [00:21:03] Ben wonders if Colin is thinking at Scott Logic about how to involve some of those people who aren’t necessarily working in classic open source developer roles to get involved, and how he’s thinking about projects abilities to bring on those people. [00:24:44] Colin tells us about the best data he’s seen by the Linux Foundation FOSS Contributor Survey, that’s targeted at maintainers and contributors. [00:26:10] We hear Colin’s idea for a project he had that analyzed open source projects to try to measure their health. [00:33:58] Find out where you can follow Colin online and his podcast. Quotes [00:09:04] “Generally speaking, most people create open source projects because they want others to use them. Learning how to market your creation, and I don’t mean adverts at marketing it. And for each one of them, if I can understand what the Unique Selling Points are of this project, that’s what I mean by marketing.” [00:10:40] “You have to design the user journey.” [00:21:39] “To me, sustainable, healthy open source involves a huge diversity of skills.” [00:33:16] “Your best security policy is not to pay some third-party firm to do all these scans and checks. Your best security policy is to get involved with that project.” Spotlight [00:35:58] Ben’s spotlight is Octobox. [00:36:51] Richard’s spotlight is Andrew Nesbitt. [00:37:31] Colin’s spotlight is a blog post, “On the weaponisation of open source.” Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] Richard Littauer Twitter Ben Nickolls Twitter Colin Eberhardt Twitter Colin Eberhardt GitHub Colin Eberhardt Blog Beyond the Hype Podcast (Scott Logic) Scott Logic Colin Eberhard- Open Source Sustainablity through Corporate Social Responsibility-OS Leeds (YouTube) Colin Eberhardt: Why I Love Open Source (FINOS Community Blog) Sustain Podcast-Episode 32: What FOSS Responders Does with Megan Sanicki & Duane O’Brien Sustain Podcast-Episode 51: Working in Public: Nadia Eghbal and her new book about Making and Sustaining Open-Source Software Sustain Podcast-Episode 104: Duane O’Brien and Mandy Grover on Investing in Open Source: The FOSS Contributor Fund FINOS Open UK-State of Open: The UK in 2021 Phase Three, The Values of Open Report on the 2020 FOSS Contributor Survey World Happiness Report 2022 Gross National Happiness Octobox Browser Extension-GitHub Octobox (Gitter) Andrew Nesbitt Twitter On the weaponisation of open source (Blog post) Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Colin Eberhardt.

Guest Stefano Maffulli Panelists Richard Littauer | Justin Dorfman Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we have joining us Stefano Maffulli, who’s the new Executive Director for the Open Source Initiative (OSI). Our conversations center around Stefano taking us through what OSI can do and we learn more about how it’s changing. He also tells us about the biggest debate that’s happening in the community, a podcast series they are releasing called Deep Dive AI, and some things he’s most excited about happening in the next few months with the OSI. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out much more! [00:02:03] Stefano fills us in on his background and how he got into his role at the OSI. [00:04:49] When coming into the ED role, Stefano explains what he was most excited about doing. [00:07:21] Stefano shares his ideas and what he’s started since being at the OSI. [00:09:13] We hear Stefano’s thoughts on dual licensing being part of the open source ecosystem that isn’t negative, and ethical source licenses being big ten open source, and how he sees the OSD changing. [00:11:27] What are the biggest debates that are happening in the community? [00:17:35] A podcast series is mentioned by Stefano, and Justin wonders if this a new way to diversify the revenue that’s coming in and if there’s any other initiatives Stefano has that is going to increase that. [00:22:33] Richard wonders how Stefano expects to mitigate corporate interest ruling OSI’s agenda. [00:29:33] We learn how Stefano is hoping to involve people for affiliates who don’t have time to read all the legal stuff in his mailing list. [00:31:42] Stefano tells us what he’s most excited happening in the next few months with the OSI. [00:34:07] Find out where you can follow Stefano on the web and become a member of the OSI. Quotes [00:09:26] “I do think that technology is not neutral.” [00:09:53] “We do need to think about how the software that we’ve created impacts the lives of people. And there’s no easy answer.” [00:15:28] “Artificial Intelligence is a new thing. It’s changing the boundary between data and software.” Spotlight [00:34:58] Justin’s spotlight is No Secrets! [00:35:18] Richard’s spotlight is Deb Nicholson. [00:36:12] Stefano’s spotlight is Bruce Perens and IndieWeb. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] Richard Littauer Twitter Justin Dorfman Twitter Stefano Maffulli Twitter Stefano Maffulli LinkedIn Stefano Maffulli Blog Open Source Initiative OpenAI Sustain Podcast-Episode 75: Deb Nicholson on the OSI, the future of open source and SeaGL Sustain Podcast-Episode 37: AN Open Source History Lesson & More with Patrick Masson Sustain Podcast-Episode 23: Why Companies Should Invest Money in Open Source with Josh Simmons Sustain Podcast-Episode 110: Impactful Open Source: Teaching Open Source Technology Managers at Brandeis, with Ken Udas and Georg Link Become an OSI Affiliate Open Source Initiative - Sign Up as a Member No Secrets! Deb Nicholson Twitter Bruce Perens Twitter IndieWeb Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Stefano Maffulli.

Guests Cornelius Schumacher | Yadira Sánchez Benítez | Thomas Fricke Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! On this episode, Richard is at the FOSS Backstage 2022 that is held in Berlin every year. This conference focuses on open source sustainability. He had the opportunity to interview people who were there in-person and talk about software sustainability, what they hope to find in FOSS Backstage, talks they did at FOSS Backstage, and a bunch of other good stuff. Today, we have three guests joining us. Our first guest is Cornelius Schumacher, who’s an Open Source Steward at DB Systel GmbH, where he helps teams to use open source software and to contribute to open source software. Our next guest is Yadira Sánchez Benítez, who’s a Criminology and Human-Centered AI Doctoral Student at the Faculty of Social Sciences & Web Science Institute and a Fellow at the Software Sustainability Institute. And our last guest is Thomas Fricke, who’s doing Kubernetes security consulting and started a side business supporting companies doing open source. Download this episode to find out much more! [00:01:09] Richard gives us a brief intro about Cornelius, what he did back in 2009, and Cornelius shares his view on open source now and his current job. [00:06:12] Looking at FOSS Backstage today, Cornelius tells us what he thinks is different now, given the amount of perspective he has, then what it used to be. [00:09:35] Cornelius details where we can improve or do better in open source. [00:11:35] Find out where to follow Cornelius online. [00:12:42] Yadira joins us and tells us everything she does, as well as what it has to do with criminology and human-centered AI. [00:15:55] Richard asks Yadira what structures we’ve built into open source which are actively excluding marginalized communities and how we can build a better open source ecosystem going forward that’s more sustainable and diverse. [00:18:44] Yadira explains why she’s in an institution saying don’t make your software from institutions. [00:20:50] We find out about what open source projects can do to be more communitarian, and what open source program offices and large enterprises can do to be less dominating and single-minded in their approaches towards building software. [00:22:38] Yadira talks about the way she sees open source working by mostly voluntary contributions and people who want to be a part of this. [00:25:39] Thomas joins us and tells us what he’s currently doing and some news in Germany about a Sovereign Tech Fund. [00:28:11] How does Thomas quantify what open source is critical information? [00:29:58] We learn about a little bit of the work going on by the German government that Thomas is advising on the topic about what’s critical or not. [00:31:05] Richard and Thomas chat about the meaning of sovereign in Germany. [00:34:21] Thomas explains more about when he mentioned earlier, “forty-year old code packages just working,” and what he thinks about what kinds of packages need what level of support. [00:38:17] Find out if Thomas sees a future where we all work together to shore up the ecosystems and make it more sustainable and secure? [00:39:33] A study on critical infrastructure is brought up and Richard wonders if Thomas sees a way for developers to be able to raise issues to the state or to the $10 million funds to help them out on an ecosystem level. [00:40:44] What does Thomas see coming in the next five to ten years? [00:42:53] Find out where you can follow Thomas online. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] FOSS Backstage 2022 Cornelius Schumacher Wikipedia Cornelius Schumacher Twitter Cornelius Schumacher GitHub Cornelius Schumacher Blog Cornelius Schumacher LinkedIn Yadira Sánchez Benítez (University of Southampton Social Page) Yadira Sánchez (Google Scholar) To App or Not to App? Understanding Public Resistance to COVID-19 Digital Contact Tracing and its Criminological Relevance Thomas Fricke Twitter Thomas Fricke Email Thomas Fricke LinkedIn FOSS Backstage-Thomas Fricke: Log4Shell-The Open Source World on Fire (YouTube) Credits Produced by Richard Littauer and Charlotte Tiennes Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guests: Cornelius Schumacher, Thomas Fricke, and Yadira Sánchez Benítez.

Guests Rich Bowen | Paul Berschick Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! On this episode, Richard is at the FOSS Backstage 2022 that is held in Berlin every year. This conference focuses on open source sustainability. He had the opportunity to interview people who were there in-person and talk about software sustainability, what they hope to find in FOSS Backstage, talks they did, and a bunch of other good stuff. Our first guest is Richard Bowen, who’s been doing open source stuff for over twenty years, most recently at Red Hat, and just started working at AWS in the open source group. We also have another guest, Paul Berschick, who is one of the organizers of FOSS Backstage, and does Open Source Events at Plain Schwarz. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out more! [00:00:58] Rich tells us what he’s doing now since leaving Red Hat. [00:02:13] We hear about Rich’s talk he did on, “Delivering Bad News: Helping your community through a rough patch.” [00:04:45] Rich shares his thoughts on what happens when incentives don’t align. [00:07:40] If you want a great read, Rich tells us a fantastic book to look into called, The Art of Community: Seven Principles of Belonging by Charles Vogl, as well as sharing advice to hang out with other Community Managers and to listen to his talk if you want to learn something. [00:10:25] How does Rich sees the role of Community Managers going and how does he think of community? [00:14:25] Find out where you can follow Rich online. [00:15:47] We now have Paul Berschick joining us and he tells us about Plain Schwarz. [00:17:02] Paul explains how much FOSS Backstage has grown since 2018, including the pandemic and how that changed. [00:21:35] How is Paul working to recreate and enable the amazing connections that he makes with people through FOSS Backstage for people who are remote? [00:25:28] Richard wonders how Paul has noticed, given his place of an event organizer, that his particular clientele influences how he builds these spaces, and if it changes how he views things because he does open source stuff. [00:27:52] Paul shares how he feels he’s helping the ecosystem as a whole besides just having a one-off conference. [00:30:47] Does Paul feel FOSS Backstage could do better at accessing the rest of the long tail open source developers? [00:33:31] Paul shares ideas with having satellite events in other places where there’s a more diverse listenership and how would that work. [00:35:24] Find out where you can follow Paul online. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] FOSS Backstage 2022 Rich Bowen Twitter Rich Bowen Blog AWSOpen (Amazon Web Services) Paul Berschick Twitter Paul Berschick LinkedIn The Art of Community: Seven Principles for Belonging by Charles Vogl Nonviolent Communication: A Language of Life: Life-Changing Tools for Healthy Relationships by Marshall B. Rosenberg PhD The Art of Community: Building the New Age of Participation by Jono Bacon Sustain Podcast-Episode 84: Jono Bacon on Building Sustainable Communities Plain Schwarz Open Source Collective Credits Produced by Richard Littauer and Charlotte Tienes Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guests: Paul Berschick and Rich Bowen.

Guests Ana Jiménez Santamaría | McCoy Smith Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! On this episode, Richard is at the FOSS Backstage 2022 that is held in Berlin every year. This conference focuses on open source sustainability. He had the opportunity to interview people who were there in-person and talk about open source software sustainability, what they hope to find in FOSS Backstage, the talks they did, and a bunch of other good stuff. Our first guest is Ana Jiménez Santamaría, who is the OSPO Program Manager at the TODO Group, a Linux Foundation project. We also have another guest, McCoy Smith, who is the Founding Attorney of Lex Pan Law, where he specializes in patents, copyrights, and free and open source licensing. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out much more! [00:01:48] Ana tells us what she does at The Linux Foundation. She also explains more about the TODO Group, how the memberships are structured, what TODO offers, and what she offers as an OSPO manager there. [00:05:23] Ana gave a talk and was part of a panel at FOSS Backstage and she shares her perspective on InnerSource versus Open Source and what TODO does with InnerSource. [00:09:46] Richard asks Ana what she thinks is the right way for corporations to give back, what the ratio is of giving back to the open source community, and how do you do that in a good way. [00:12:32] We find out what TODO does to help organizations coordinate their giving back to open source projects. [00:14:47] Looking at the TODO Group and looking ahead in the next three to five years, Ana tells us what she’s most excited about making. [00:17:24] Richard asks Ana if TODO Group offers anything towards the midsize or mini OSPO companies and what do they offer. [00:19:17] Ana explains more about OSPOlogy. [00:21:37] Find out the best way to get involved in TODO Group. [00:24:15] Our next guest, McCoy Smith, joins us and shares his background. [00:26:44] McCoy gives us the details on the talk he did at FOSS Backstage on, \ Project Ownership & Project Enforcement: The Rules, they are A-Changing, and he explains some acronyms he talked about in his presentation: CAA, CLA, and LELO. [00:30:14] Does enforcement matter for most open source projects? [00:31:49] Richard asks McCoy about proliferation of licenses and wonders if that’s even an issue or how he views it affecting the open source space. [00:34:17] We find out if McCoy is seeing open source being more of a liability for law than it used to be like for legal parts of large corporations or if he’s seeing open source focus on security more than it used to be. [00:37:22] McCoy tells us about some different initiatives that are happening with OSPO’s. [00:39:23] Find out what’s most interesting to McCoy today about open source. [00:41:38] Richard brings up a blog post Kyle Mitchell wrote, and McCoy shares his thoughts about it. [00:44:48] Find out where you can follow McCoy on the web. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] FOSS Backstage 2022 Ana Jiménez Santamaría Twitter Ana Jiménez Santamaría LinkedIn McCoy Smith Twitter McCoy Smith LinkedIn Lex Pan Law Lex Pan Law Twitter TODO Group TODO (OSPO) Group-GitHub OSPOlogy Monthly Meetings TODO Group OSPO Forum Measuring the Business Impact of Open Source & OSPOs with Amanda Casari OSPOCon 2022-Austin, TX OSPOCon 2022 Europe OpenChain FOSS Backstage-McCoy Smith-Project Ownership & Project Enforcement: The Rules, they Are A-Changing (YouTube) Sustain Podcast-Episode 94: Josh Montgomery and the Patent Trolls Kyle Mitchell Blog Credits Produced by Richard Littauer and Charlotte Tienes Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guests: Ana Jiménez Santamaría and McCoy Smith.

Guest Florian Gilcher | Silona Bonewald Panelists Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! On this episode, Richard is at the FOSS Backstage 2022 that is held in Berlin every year. This conference focuses on open source and sustainability. He had the opportunity to interview people who were there in-person and talk about software sustainability, what they hope to find in FOSS Backstage, and a bunch of other good stuff. Joining him today are two guests, the first is Florian Gilcher, a Rustacean, CEO of Asquera, Managing Director of Ferrous Systems, and a Founding member of Rust Foundation. We also have Silona Bonewald, who is the Executive Director of IEEE SA OPEN. Go ahead and download this episode now to hear more! [00:01:00] Florian tells his background, what he does now, and how he gets community funded. [00:03:36] We learn that Florian is one of the Founding members of the Rust Foundation, and how he shares how he decided to build his for-profit company, Ferrous Systems, instead of just getting open source to pay him for everything. [00:09:16] Richard wonders if Florian sees more foundations working well with companies that are service providers as a viable means of actually making open source projects sustainable in the future. [00:12:13] Find out where you can follow Florian on the web. [00:12:54] Silona tells us more about the IEEE SA OPEN. [00:14:52] We hear about what it means to have an open source standard and where are these standards being applied. [00:18:58] Silona shares with us what her dream is for ten years from now for the output of this governance group. [00:22:06] We hear about Silona’s talk she did at FOSS Backstage called, It Takes a Village, where she talked about diversity and what it means to grow open source. [00:25:39] Silona tells us how to use the IEEE platform and sign up if you’re interested in starting a new project at your company, and she explains how the adoption has been. [00:28:59] How does funding work on IEEE SA OPEN projects? [00:30:42] Over the next year or two, Silona talks about what collaborations are going to make it better for people who use the platform and what she’s excited about. [00:33:06] Find out where you can follow Silona on the web. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] FOSS Backstage 2022 Florian Gilcher Twitter Florian Gilcher Website Asquera Rust Rust Foundation Ferrous Systems Ferrous Systems Twitter FOSS Backstage 2022-Florian Gilcher: On the importance of leaving (YouTube) Silona Bonewald Twitter IEEE SA OPEN Sustain Podcast-Episode 98: Silona Bonewald and her long-term vision for IEEE and open source FOSS Backstage 2022-Silona Bonewald: It Takes a Village (YouTube) Credits Produced by Richard Littauer and Charlotte Tiennes Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guests: Florian Gilcher and Silona Bonewald.

Guest Mike McQuaid Panelists Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about software sustainability for the long haul. Today, I’m very excited to have as my guest from Edinburgh, Mike McQuaid, who’s a Principal Engineer at GitHub and the Project Leader of Homebrew. Mike fills us in on Homebrew, how he became the Project Lead, and the Homebrew journey towards software sustainability. We also find out how Mike applies Brené Brown’s acronym “BRAVING” to his work on open source, and about his involvement with GitHub Sponsors. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out much more! [00:01:26] Mike explains what Homebrew is, who originally created it, and how he became one of the lead maintainers. [00:05:41] Since Mike is the Homebrew Project Leader at GitHub, Richard wonders why they need an OSX related package manager and Mike explains how that happened. [00:07:06] We learn how Mike worked on Homebrew as open source on company time and the importance of choosing priorities. [00:11:57] Mike goes in depth about the Homebrew sustainability journey, mentoring other maintainers, and the value of feature flagging in Homebrew. [00:16:45] Richard wonders how Mike talks to people about whether or not they’re a good candidate to be a mentor. [00:20:12] We hear about the meaning of the “BRAVING” acronym from Brené Brown’s podcast and book, and how it applies to Mike’s work on open source. [00:25:36] Where is there room in Mike’s open source boundary setting for grace? [00:31:07] Mike was on the GitHub Sponsors team and we find out how he got involved with it, and why it has been such a valuable contribution to the open source ecosystem. [00:37:05] We learn what Mike thinks the next step of sustainability might be in terms of helping open source maintainers from a non-individualistic approach. [00:42:15] Find out where you can follow Mike on the web. Quote [00:22:12] “I think boundaries are the most important part of open source sustainability, at the end of the day you should be only working on the stuff that you want to be working on.” Spotlight [00:43:16] Richard’s spotlight is Forest Café in Edinburgh. [00:43:57] Mike’s spotlight is a search tool called, ripgrep. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse Mike McQuaid Twitter Mike McQuaid Website Mike McQuaid GitHub Homebrew The Silver Searcher Max Howell Website tea The Mentorship Diamond by Mike McQuaid Stop Mentoring First-Time Contributors by Mike McQuaid Saying No by Mike McQuaid Sacred Earth Sacred Soul by John Philip Newell Feature flags GitHub Sponsors Open Source Economics (is not what you think). by Mike McQuaid Open Collective Homebrew Brené Brown Dare to Lead: The BRAVING Inventory Forest Café ripgrep-GitHub Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Mike McQuaid.

Guest Álvaro Trigo Panelists Richard Littauer | Amanda Casari | Ben Nickolls Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Our guest today is Álvaro Trigo, who is an open source developer and maintainer of fullPage.js, which is an open source package that helps you figure out how to make a full-page website. He’s made this into a business. Álvaro shares his story of working as a full-stack developer, how fullPage.js came to fruition for him, things he’s learned since starting his business, and some difficult things he’s encountered in his job. We also learn more about some other cool projects Álvaro has created such as fullSnap.io and fullstats.io, how he uses different platforms to enable his business, and why he encourages people to create open source projects. Go ahead and download this episode now, and if you enjoyed this podcast, please let us know! [00:02:07] Álvaro tells us how it all started with his career, working at fullPage.js., and what the usage stats look like on this project. [00:04:15] We learn how Álvaro started getting paid for fullPage.js. [00:06:27] Álvaro talks about some things he wishes he would have known before starting his self-owned business. [00:07:30] Find out what the reaction has been within the community on the open source side, and if there’s been an uplift in contributions and activity within this project in addition to the work Álvaro’s been doing in the extensions. [00:08:26] Amanda wonders if Álvaro has any goals or models for community contributions or onboarding additional maintainers. [00:09:42] Richard wonders if Álvaro has ever seen anyone take an add-on and implement it in open source and then give it away for free. [00:15:09] Álvaro shares what’s difficult for him right now with his job. [00:17:14] Why is it easier to monetize other kinds of projects? [00:19:43] We hear about two other projects Álvaro has created: fullSnap.io and fullstats.io. [00:21:00] When Álvaro thinks about a new project he shares how monetizing is easier. [00:22:44] Amanda explains the new General Public License version 3. [00:23:58] We hear Álvaro’s views on supporting the software that he’s building on. [00:26:00] Gulp.js is one of the main dependencies that Álvaro uses at fullPage.js, and we find out if he would be more interested in paying all the way down the stack or giving money or time towards Gulp. [00:32:41] Álvaro sharing some final thoughts and where you can follow him online. Quotes [00:12:21] “At the end of the day, if I am able to monetize it and [competitors] are not, I’m able to spend more time on it.” [00:21:36] “The fact that you can monetize something makes it easier for you to support and improve it.” [00:21:57] “Providing something for free is a good way to validate a project, to see if there is enough interest or not.” [00:29:00] “I don’t think providing a contribution is the same as maintaining the project as a whole.” Spotlight [00:34:18] Amanda’s spotlight is the book, Kill It with Fire: Manage Aging Computer Systems (and Future Proof Modern Ones) by Marianne Bellotti. [00:35:02] Ben’s spotlight is ASTAP, the Astrometric STAcking Program, which is image stacker and astrometric (plate) solver. [00:35:38] Richard’s spotlight is Turf.js. [00:36:12] Álvaro’s spotlight is Handsontable.com. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse Álvaro Trigo Twitter Álvaro Trigo Website fullPage Software Engineering Unlocked: Make money with open source software Switching Open Software Terms (Kyle E. Mitchell) Jana Gallus Digital Infrastructure Podcast-Episode 5: Jana Gallus and the Power of Public: Recognition and Reputation as Drivers of Open Source Success Gumroad fullSnap fullstats GNU General Public License version 3 Gulp Open Collective-Gulp Masonry Flickity David DeSandro Kill It with Fire: Manage Aging Computer Systems (and Future Proof Modern Ones) by Marianne Bellotti Astrometric STAcking Program (ASTAP) Turf.js Handsontable Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Alvaro Trigo.

Guest Emily Shaffer Panelists Richard Littauer | Eric Berry Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we’re going to have some great conversations with our guest, Emily Shaffer, who is a Software Developer for Google working on Git, which is an open source project. Emily fills us in on Git’s governance, deadnaming, submodules, Git Hooks, and GitGitGadget. We also learn more about a tutorial she wrote for people who are trying to learn how to contribute, called My First Contribution, we learn what her day to day experience looks like, and what she’s most excited about happening in the next year in Git. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out more! [00:02:29] Emily explains why she was at the Embedded Linux Conference. [00:04:09] We learn about Git’s governance, who runs it, and who works on it. [00:05:41] The topic of software developers working full-time on Git and being paid is brought up, and Richard wonders if things are moving in certain ways because of the number of paid employees on the project. [00:14:27] Richard wonders what efforts have been done in changing the name and email when you change a Git commit, and Emily explains how they use a Mail Map. [00:20:52] Emily tells us about GitGitGadget. [00:22:19] Before switching to Git, Emily was working on a similar project and Richard asks how many of the contributors are hobbyists, and she explains “scratching your own itch.” [00:23:45] Emily explains the onboarding process and how she wrote a tutorial for people who are trying to learn to contribute called, My First Contribution. [00:25:43] Richard wonders if there’s a guide for people who are interested in writing something for their own project, and Emily shares suggestions on what people can do. [00:27:03] We learn about the working group Git has. [00:29:07] Find out what Emily’s experience is on a day-to-day basis with having a Foundation be the home for Git. [00:31:32] What is Emily most excited about happening in Git in the next year? [00:34:14] Eric wonders if Emily ever reaches for GUI tool to manage her Git or if she is just CLI, and she shares a hot tip. [00:37:00] Find out where you can follow Emily online. Quotes [00:25:58] “Writing a new contributor document works well if you already don’t know what is going into the document.” Spotlight [00:37:43] Eric’s spotlight is Setapp. [00:38:39] Richard’s spotlight is hub. [00:39:25] Emily’s spotlight is the book, Little Brother by Cory Doctorow. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse Emily Shaffer Website Emily Shaffer Twitter Mastodon ([email protected]) Git Sustain Podcast-Episode 88: Foundations Roundtable: From Maintain to Sustain GitGitGadget Git-My First Contribution Customizing Git- Git Hooks Git Mailmap Setapp hub Little Brother by Cory Doctorow Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Emily Shaffer.

Guest Chris Coleman Panelists Richard Littauer | Justin Dorfman Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we have a really cool guest joining us, Chris Coleman, who is the Professor of Emergent Digital Practices and Director of The Clinic for Open Source Arts at the University of Denver. Chris takes us through his journey of creating The Clinic for Open Source Arts (COSA), what they’re focused on, and some cool projects they are working with. He goes in detail about open source artists and what creativity means for COSA. Also, we learn why we need Web3, some thoughts on Crypto, and a conference coming up that Chris is really excited about. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out more! [00:01:48] Chris tells us what he does and how he created The Clinic for Open Source Arts (COSA). [00:03:13] Chris defines what an open source artist is. [00:05:15] When Chris talks about being creative we find out what he means by this, as well as how he teaches artists who are open source people. [00:08:11] Justin wonders what opportunities there are for Web3 and NFTs to fund open source. [00:09:51] Since there’s a huge problem with trust in the NFT space, Justin wonders how we get over this unfortunate situation we’re in with NFTs and Web3 being the future of sustain open source and funding. [00:13:05] Richard and Chris share their thoughts on Crypto. [00:15:57] Chris tells us about some cool projects they are working with such as Bitsy, a Feminist Data Set by Caroline Sinders, and Close Isn’t Home. [00:18:30] Find out why we need Web3, why it’s so interesting, and what COSA is focused on. [00:21:21] Chris tells us where we can access COSA stuff. [00:22:40] We learn about a conference Chris is most excited about. [00:24:32] If you want to get involved with COSA find out here, and Chris tells us the hardest thing about his job. [00:28:28] Find out where you can follow Chris and COSA online. Quotes [00:07:07] “There are some people whose time is best spent innovating, and there are some who’s joy is helping.” [00:11:12] “If you want diverse voices to show up to the table, they need money.” [00:14:00] “You don’t have to work in advertising, there are new ways of selling your work.” Spotlight [00:29:50] Justin’s spotlight is a new podcast called, Let’s Talk Docs, with Portia Burton and Erik Holscher. [00:30:40] Richard’s spotlight is Cybraphon. [00:31:22] Chris’s spotlight is the Open Source Afro Hair Library. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse Richard Littauer Twitter Justin Dorfman Twitter Chris Coleman Website Chris Coleman Twitter Chris Coleman LinkedIn The Clinic for Open Source Arts The Clinic for Open Source Arts Twitter Clinic for Open Source Arts-GitHub [email protected] (email) Bitsy Feminist Data Set by Caroline Sinders Close Isn’t Home Sustain podcast-Episode 107: Caroline Sinders on building healthy OSS Communities Sustain podcast-Episode 112: Mike Saunders on The Document Foundation and LibreOffice Electric Zine Maker Introducing COSA, the Clinic for Open Source Arts (Medium) Clinic for Open Source Arts (Medium) Let’s Talk Docs podcast Cybraphon Open Source Afro Hair Library Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Chris Coleman.

Guest Jon Gottfried | Mike Swift Panelists Richard Littauer | Justin Dorfman | Ben Nickolls Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We have two amazing guests joining us, Jon Gottfried and Mike Swift, who are the Co-Founders of Major League Hacking (MLH). Today, we’ll learn about the MLH Fellowship program, the philosophy behind MLH, which every year, more than 100,000 developers from around the world attend these events to learn new technical skills by getting hands-on experience. Jon and Mike share the changes they faced when COVID hit, the future of events, and what they’re most excited about happening in the next year. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out much more! [00:01:35] Jon and Mike share their background stories how they founded MLH. [00:08:45] We hear the elevator pitch of what MLH is and the philosophy behind it. [00:13:43] Jon and Mike talk about what the selection process is in terms of projects that people are contributing to on the fellowship program. [00:18:13] Richard brings up a post from Mike McQuaid and wonders how Jon and Mike are helping the new beginners learn about the necessities of open source, and how they’re helping the maintainers to not burn out. [00:25:50] Jon and Mike share how they were feeling when the pandemic first started and if they had to make any transitions to get to 2022. [00:31:05] Mike shares his take on future events being possibly hybrid or not. [00:33:59] Ben wonders if there’s anything that’s missing from the fellowship or from some of the digital events. [00:38:06] We learn what Jon and Mike are most excited about happening in the next six months or year. [00:42:09] Find out where you can follow Jon, Mike, and MLH online. Quotes [00:07:07] “It really drew me back in and really made me passionate about the community side of tech.” [00:09:36] “A lot of developers start to hone their skills though open source; however, open source is scary.” [00:11:44] “All told, something like 40,000 people in our community lost a job or internship during the summer of 2020 due to COVID.” [00:15:16] “When you’re an early career developer, one of the most important things you can learn is how to approach an open source codebase you haven’t seen before, and how to begin contributing.” [00:18:02] “For people who don’t go to top tier schools or don’t live in a country that’s highly desirable from a hiring perspective, that really does set them apart by being able to point to something they built.” [00:20:35] “Start with community.” [00:21:43] “Major League Hacking helps foster a culture of coming back and contributing.” [00:26:37] “We’re not a hackathon company. Our job is to empower new developers and launch their careers.” [00:40:31] “We run a digital event every single week, full year-round, and it’s democratizing access to these types of opportunities.” Spotlight [00:42:39] Ben’s spotlight is thanks.dev [00:43:28]** Justin’s **spotlight is fig.io. [00:43:50] Richard’s spotlight is Uri Goldshtein. [00:44:22] Mike’s spotlight is a project by Vercel called Next.js. [00:45:36] Jon’s spotlight is a shout-out to Frédéric Collonval, a maintainer that has been helping new contributors on jupyterlab-git. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse Jon Gottfried Twitter Jon Gottfried LinkedIn Mike Swift Twitter Mike Swift LinkedIn MLH Fellowship Major League Hacking Stop Mentoring First-Time Contributors by Mike McQuaid thanks.dev Fig Uri Goldshtein Twitter Next.js-GitHub Frédéric Collonval jupyterlab-git Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guests: Jon Gottfried and Mike Swift.

Guest Mike Saunders Panelists Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Richard is solo today, but very excited to have as his guest, Mike Saunders, joining us from Munich, where he’s the Marketing and Communications Coordinator for The Document Foundation, a longtime advocate of open standards, and wrote his own operating system at one point called MikeOS, which we’ll find out how that happened. Today, Mike tells us all about The Document Foundation, LibreOffice, how they work together, and how he really wants to grow the LibreOffice community. Also, besides The Documentation Foundation, there’s another much smaller project called the Document Liberation Project that we learn more about, as well as what Mike is most excited about happening this year. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out more! [00:01:12] We learn how MikeOS happened. [00:02:10] Mike explains how he ended up at The Document Foundation. [00:03:25] What is LibreOffice? [00:05:33] We hear about how the state of LibreOffice is today and The Document Foundation, how they work together, and how many developers there are. [00:10:36] Richard wonders why Mike hasn’t decided to have a giant corporate empire and what keeps him small and end user focused instead of something else. [00:14:28] Mike talks about a huge challenge for them which is growing the community. [00:20:12] Mike mentioned getting people involved is some of their community and he tells us what he does to lift people up and make it so that they stay around and feel like they’re a part of the community. [00:23:05] Richard wonders how Mike facilitates a handover of trust and not show that he’s not making the decisions in the end, and how do they become part of those power structures and not just be contributors. [00:26:00] We learn about the Document Liberation Project. [00:29:57] Richard wonders what Mike’s doing to make sure that he’s sustainable in the face of Google Docs taking over the market for documents. [00:33:21] We find out where the 200 million users are. [00:35:20] Mike reveals what he’s most excited about in the next few years. [00:36:20] Find out where you can follow Mike and the LibreOffice community online. Quotes [00:11:40] “We estimate we have 200 million users of LibreOffice.” [00:13:05] “We exist to serve the LibreOffice community.” [00:21:13] “The best thing you can do is to put your trust in people.” [00:21:33] “Doers decide.” Spotlight [00:38:50] Richard’s** **spotlight is Mozilla Fellow and researcher, Narrira Lemos. [00:39:33]** Mike’s **spotlight is Slackware Linux. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse Richard Littauer Twitter Mike Saunders Twitter [email protected] MikeOS The Document Foundation LibreOffice LibreOffice Twitter Sustain Podcast-Episode 67: Ryan Sipes and Building Community at Thunderbird Document Liberation Project OpenDocument Sustain Podcast-Episode 54: Danese Cooer on the History of Open Source, InnerSource, and What’s Next LibreOffice Blog LibreOffice Fosstodon Narrira Lemos GitHub Slackware Linux Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Mike Saunders.

Guest Amanda Casari Panelists Richard Littauer | Ben Nickolls | Eric Berry Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We are very excited for today’s podcast. Our guest is Amanda Casari, who is a Developer Relations Engineer and Open Source Researcher at Google Open Source Programs Office (OSPO). Today, we learn about some open source work Amanda is doing with her research team at the University of Vermont Complex Systems Center, she tells us about a project called ACROSS, and a paper that was written by her team that was actively looking at contributions that are measured for code centric repositories. Amanda goes in depth about what open source is to her, she shares advice if you’re looking to collaborate more effectively with people in open source, she talks more about how we can support projects financially to other parts of the world and mentions some great groups she worked with. Go ahead and download this episode to learn more! [00:02:00] Amanda fills us in on the open source work that she started working on with the University of Vermont Complex Systems Center. [00:06:43] Amanda explains the “assumptions we have that aren’t verified,” as well as a paper that came from their research team and what they examined. [00:09:52] We learn more about how people interface with closed decisions behind doors and open source. [00:13:30] Ben asks Amanda to tell us what kind of behaviors and differences she sees between communities that emerge and continue to exists off of platforms like GitHub and GitLab. [00:15:50] Amanda tells us about a project their team is working on called ACROSS, and a paper that won a FOSS award last year that was about actively looking at contributions that are measured for code centric repositories. [0019:18] Eric wonders what type of responsibility Amanda sees that would come from GitHub and if that’s going to affect us long term. [00:23:01] Amanda explains working as a Control Systems Engineer, and she explains how she sees open source as blocked diagrams and feedback loops. [00:27:53] We hear some great advice from Amanda if you are someone who wants to make the world of open source a more complex and beautiful place with what you have to offer. [00:32:08] We hear some thoughts from Amanda for people working in open source who don’t have a huge amount of privilege to have the ability to share their energy and find it harder to think laterally. [00:35:27] Ben wonders what we can do to support projects financially and what we can do to support the next generation from the different parts of the world who haven’t had the opportunity to benefit yet. Amanda shares her thoughts and mentions some really great groups she worked with such as Open Source Community Africa, PyCon Africa, and Python Ghana. [00:39:24] Find out where you can follow Amanda online. Quotes [00:09:01] “A lot of open source decision making is really behind proprietary or closed doors.” [00:19:59] “When it feels like there is only one option for any kind of tool, infrastructure, or access, that’s when I always start getting concerned.” [00:24:58] “Open source is a ___ system.” [00:29:59] “Open source is not one thing, it’s many interactive parts that fit together in different ways.” Spotlight [00:40:10] Eric’s spotlight is an article Amanda submitted on “Open source ecosystems need equitable credit across contributions.” [00:40:39] Ben’s spotlight is a shout out to Jess Sachs and the maintainers of Faker.js. [00:41:22] Richard’s spotlight is Red Hen Baking in Vermont. [00:41:47] Amanda’s spotlights are two books_: Data Feminism and _The Data-Sitters Club that she found on The Executable Books Project. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse Amanda Casari Twitter Amanda Casari LinkedIn Open Source Stories The penumbra of open source: projects outside of centralized platforms are longer maintained, more academic and more collaborative Getting the Giella source code for your language Julia Ferraioli Blog What contributions count? Analysis of attribution in open source (article) ACROSS Taxonomy-GitHub RubyConf 2021- Black Swan Events in Open Source-That time we broke the Internet All Contributors bot-GitHub App All Contributors Open Source Community Africa PyCon Africa Python Ghana Open source ecosystems need equitable credit across contributions (article) Faker Red Hen Baking Co. Data Feminism The Executable Books Project The Data-Sitters Club Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Associate Producer Justin Dorfman Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Transcript by Layten Pryce Transcript Richard [00:11]: Hello, and welcome to Sustain, the podcast where we're talking about sustaining open-source for the long haul. Who are we? Where do we come from? Where are we going? What are we going to talk about today? Very excited for today's podcast. We have an amazing guest. One of the few guest

Guests Ken Udas | Georg Link Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to a special episode of Sustain. This is the Impactful Open Source series, part of a former podcast host by Richard Littauer. This is the podcast where we talk about taking source code and moving it until it makes an impact on the world at large, either on cities, universities, or governments. Today, I have two special guests, Ken Udas, who is the Program Officer at Open Source Technology Management Program at Brandeis University, where he has been founding a new course on open source. Also, Georg Link, who is of the assistants there and is the Director of Sales at Bitergia and Founder of the CHAOSS Project. We will learn all about the program at Brandeis University and how it works and the how the courses were designed into three areas. Also, we find out how Brandeis fits into the open source ecosystem in the next five to ten years and the flexible model they are using to help. Download this episode now to find out more! [00:02:16] Ken tells us all about the program at Brandeis University and how it works. [00:04:46] Richard asks Ken since open source program offices are run by one or two people, there’s not many in the world and it’s a problem, so what he’s trying to solve is figuring out how do we get more people to run these offices and he’s not trying to get more people making open source software. [00:07:45] Ken and Georg share with us the hands-on stuff they are teaching the students, having mentors, and how they designed the courses in three areas: Community, Production, and Business. [00:12:56] Richard asks Georg is all of the resources are open source, if it’s all viewable anywhere, and if he can see the presentation mock-ups. [00:14:16] Richard wonders what’s the level of open source that Ken and Georg work with. Georg tells us about the experts that he’s pulled in when he designed the community. We also learn how many students he has. [00:18:07] Ken tells us how he thinks Brandeis will fit into the open source ecosystem in the next five to ten years. He explains a model that they put together to be flexible. Also, we find out about their unique program. [00:24:16] Georg mentions one of the cool things he’s noticed just from the first few courses, is the importance of connecting the learners with the open source ecosystem. [00:25:52] Richard wants to know how they started figuring out and have the idea that there’s nobody to do this work, and how did they have the idea to have a university course and Ken explains. [00:30:27] Find out where you can learn more about the program and where you can find Ken and Georg on the internet. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse Ken Udas- Latent Pattern Transmission Ken Udas Twitter Georg Link Website Georg Link Twitter CHAOSS CHAOSScast podcast Bitergia Brandeis -Open Source Technology Management OSI (Open Source Initiative) Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guests: Georg Link and Ken Udas.

Guest Dries Buytaert Panelists Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We’re very excited about our guest and even though Richard is the only panelist today, it’s going to be a great episode. Joining us today is Dries Buytaert, who’s the Founder of Drupal, as well as the Founder and CTO of Acquia, which is a very successful open source company that helps out Drupal. We learn more about Drupal and why it’s so successful, as well as how Acquia was born and how it differs from Drupal. Dries goes in depth about a blog post he wrote, _Balancing Makers and Takers to scale and sustain Open Source, _and he shares one of the biggest challenges that we need to figure out in open source sustainability and explains how the work of Elinor Ostrom ties into it. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out more! [00:01:42] Dries details how it all started for him and how he ended up with Drupal. [00:03:25] Find out how many contributors Drupal has and how many websites are served by Drupal. [00:05:16] We learn about Acquia, how it differs from Drupal, and the donation Drupal made to the PHP Foundation. [00:09:20] Dries explains why Drupal is so successful. [00:10:46] Richard mentions a blog post to check out that Dries wrote. Dries goes in depth about what he means by the ‘Fairness Principle,’ and explains the takers, makers, and the credit system they use to encourage the makers. [00:20:57] Richard brings up the Algorithm in Drupal and Dries talks more about it. [00:22:51] Dries shares advice to people who may be interested in setting up to invest in foundations and the story of how he started Acquia. [00:27:50] Richard asks Dries what his views are on both digital infrastructure and government involvement in open source. [00:31:50] Dries explains some challenges for open source sustainability and talks about the work of Elinor Ostrom. [00:38:20] Dries fills us in on some experiments they’re doing in the Drupal project. [00:38:55] Find out where you can follow Dries and his work online. Quotes [00:14:15] “Open source is also a common good.” [00:29:51] “I do think we need to think about how we institutionalize the operations of the project.” [00:38:03] “Sustainability is often a coordination problem.” Spotlight [00:40:07] Richard’s spotlight is Rachel Lawson. [00:40:37] Dries’s spotlight is a shout out to all the open source diversity and inclusion communities. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse Dries Buytaert Website Dries Buytaert Twitter Drupal Acquia Balancing Makers and Takers to scale and sustain Open Source (blog post by Dries Buytaert) PHP Foundation Drupal-GitHub Rachel Lawson- Sustain Podcast: Episodes 35 and 88 Danese Cooper-Sustain Podcast: Episode 54 Governing the Commons: The Evolution of Institutions for Collective Action by Elinor Ostrom Greg Bloom LinkedIn SustainOSS Working Group: Community Principles & Ostrom Redux (Greg Bloom) SustainOSS Working Group: Licensing Rachel Lawson Twitter Open Source Diversity Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Dries Buytaert.

Guest Sarah Gran | Josh Aas Panelists Richard Littauer | Justin Dorfman Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We are super excited to have two guests today, Sarah Gran and Josh Aas, who both work for ISRG, the Internet Security Research Group which consists of three projects: Let’s Encrypt, Divvi Up, and Prossimo. Sarah is a VP of Communication and fundraising for ISRG, and Josh is the Executive Director at ISRG. They are both working on Prossimo to bring memory safe code to critical digital infrastructure, which they will explain more in depth today. We also learn about some other projects they are investing in this year, and Sarah and Josh share some positive things they’re really excited about happening in 2022 with Prossimo. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out more! [00:02:03] We find out what ISRG is and how they choose which projects to focus on. [00:04:53] Josh explains the difference between Prossimo and Rust. [00:07:07] Josh and Sarah explain why memory allocation is so important. [00:10:33] Justin wonders if Log4j is on their radar in terms of funding, if that’s something ISRG can help them with, and how that has brought more attention to memory safe languages. [00:13:03] We hear about the relationship ISRG has with the Linux Foundation. [00:15:21] Sarah shares what they’ve done so far to make the Prossimo project sustainable. [00:18:21] We find out what the budget is for running ISRG, and how they make that budget for what they are trying to accomplish. [00:22:40] Josh tells us about using Linkerd if you’re looking for memory safety in that space. [00:24:40] Besides working on major projects that have had massive impacts like he had with Let’s Encrypt, Josh shares things that have been difficult for him this year. [00:27:02] Josh explains how Cloudflare deals with DDoS attacks, and if there’s been any open line of communication with NginX. [00:29:55] Josh and Sarah detail what they’re doing to get the word out about Prossimo which includes four criteria they use to decide what they’re going to engage with. [00:33:18] We hear about some projects they are investing in this year, such as Rustls, Linux kernel, and NTP. [00:35:07] What are Sarah and Josh most excited about happening in 2022? [00:41:35] Find out where you can follow Josh, Sarah, and Prossimo online. Quotes [00:04:05] “We just like to do a lot research about what we’re doing. We’re not a throw it at the wall and see what sticks organization.” [00:12:05] “From my perspective in communications and fundraising, I think this is a great moment for us to help people understand that memory safety isn’t at the crux of Log4j.” [00:14:31] “Rising tides raises all ships.” [00:25:27] “We have a huge amount of history that tells us C++ code is not safe.” [00:29:25] “I really hope that ten years from now, the number one web server is not written in C, that cannot happen, we can’t allow that to happen. Popular web servers written in C need to go.” [00:36:37] “We can have a plan to boot OpenSSL off the internet. That’s a dream of mine and I think that’s an achievable goal.” Spotlight [00:38:09] Justin’s spotlight is Twitter communities. [00:38:33] Richard’s spotlight is Karl Becker. [00:39:14] Sarah’s spotlight is Crowdin. [00:40:43] Josh’s spotlight is Qubes OS. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse SustainOSS Podcast Josh Aas Twitter Josh Aas LinkedIn Sarah Gran Twitter Sarah Gran LinkedIn Internet Security Research Group Prossimo Let’s Encrypt Apache Log4j Linkerd Justin Dorfman Twitter Crowdin Karl Becker GitHub Qubes OS Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guests: Josh Aas and Sarah Gran.

Guest Caroline Sinders Panelists Richard Littauer | Eriol Fox | Ben Nickolls Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we are very excited to have as our guest, Caroline Sinders, who is the Founder of Convocation Design + Research. She’s also a critical designer, researcher, and artist, and a lot of the work she does is on online gender-based violence, as well as community health and toxicity. She has a lot of expertise looking at what Codes of Conduct mean, how to have safe communities, and how to understand how to code together better. Caroline details her journey and how she got into this line of work, and how she understands the boundaries of communities, what she observes in the open source communities, and how platforms influence communities. Also, she tells us about a great toolkit she read and some great resources you can check out if you’re new to dealing with Code of Conduct. Go ahead and download this episode to learn more! [00:02:44] Caroline explains how she started getting into this line of work. [00:07:08] As an ethnographer, we find out how Caroline understands the boundaries of communities and how she looks at them as building spaces of shared values. [00:13:17] Eriol wants to know things that Caroline sees happening in the spaces she observes, especially within open source communities, and why she thinks this happens in these communities. [00:19:18] Ben wonders how Caroline feels about the influence that a platform has on communities, appreciation, and values of skill sets within that community. [00:23:34] Eriol wonders if Caroline has encountered any communities that are very resistant to code of conduct being implemented. Also, Caroline talks about an interesting toolkit she read called, Toolkit for Cooperative, Collective, & Collaborative Cultural Work. [00:31:36] Caroline shares some great resources that are worth checking out if you’re new to dealing with Code of Conduct. [00:33:29] Find out where to follow Caroline on the web. Quotes [00:22:54] “ I think we’re stuck in a place where community worth for a community member is how many lines of code you’ve written and maybe not how many successful events have you run, how many facilitation trainings have you gone through, how any harassment teams have you helped serve spun up a guide, and those are the skills we need.” [00:25:18] “Community doesn’t mean friendship.” [00:25:21] “Just because you’re a small group of people that doesn’t mean you aren’t going to have a problem, it just means you haven’t had one yet.” Spotlight [00:34:45] Eriol’s spotlight is a talk by Kiran-Rin Oliver: Community Repositories- Why You Need One Your Open Source Project. [00:35:25] Ben’s spotlight is a project called OpenAstroTech. [00:36:04] Richard’s spotlight is Christmas Bird Counts. [00:36:41] Caroline’s spotlights are the Toolkit for Cooperative, Collective, & Collaborative Cultural Work, and a shout out to her friends for celebrating their 10th Anniversary of pie hard, where they ate pie and watched Die Hard during the holiday season. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse Digital Infrastructure Podcast Digital Infrastructure Podcast-Episode 7: Caroline Sinders on the Importance of Diverse Communities Caroline Sinders Twitter Caroline Sinders Website Toolkit for Cooperative, Collective, & Collaborative Cultural Work How to Respond to Code of Conduct Reports by Valerie Aurora Community Repositories- Why You Need One Your Open Source Project (YouTube) OpenAstroTech Audubon Christmas Bird Count Die Hard “What Does a Community Need?” Researching Remote Communities, Digital Events, Academic Conferences, and Tool Design during COVID19 by Caroline Sinders, Melina Garcia, and Melissa Huerta (Simply Secure) Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Caroline Sinders.

Guest Rodrigo Mendoza Panelists Richard Littauer | Justin Dorfman | Ben Nichols | Eric Berry Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we have a really awesome guest to talk about some really cool stuff. Rodrigo Mendoza is the Founder and CEO of Quine, a data-driven professional network for software creators, as well as GitNFT, an NFT minting platform for GitHub commits. Rodrigo dives deep in Quine and tells us why he’s focusing on open source and software developers, and what is so different about his platform. We also learn more about GitNFT, which is a part of Quine but a different product, and he talks about some of the issues he’s had with GitNFT and why some people get so riled up towards NFTs and Web3. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out much more! [00:02:09] We start off with Rodrigo telling us what Quine is. [00:04:12] Richard wonders why Rodrigo is focusing on open source and software developers in particular. [00:05:26] Richard asks Rodrigo how Quine is not a subset of LinkedIn, and he tells us what’s different about his platform. [00:09:17] Ben wonders if Rodrigo has any pathways he could create to bring more people into open source to distribute more opportunities to people. [00:12:33] Another thing Rodrigo works on is GitNFT, so we find out more about that and how it works. [00:16:22] Justin asks Rodrigo his thoughts on why some people in this industry or our community are so hostile towards NFTs and Web3 as a whole. [00:21:28] Richard wonders how Rodrigo deals with the internal conflict. [00:23:36] Ben shares his thoughts on NFTs, and Rodrigo talks about some of the issues he’s had with GitNFT. [00:29:17] Eric shares some closing thoughts on GitNFT, NFTs overall, and what he loves about this project. [00:32:35] Find out where you can follow Rodrigo and learn more about Quine. Quotes [00:02:28] “We think that coding is a super-power and if you can code, then you should be able to monetize your skill in a way that is very easy and very fluid.” [00:06:48] “We think of open source as the professional network of the future.” [00:07:21] “We think that open source contributions are going to be micro-certificates of skill.” [00:08:35] “Open source contributions are proof-of-work for skills.” [00:10:07] “I like to think that open source is still in its early stages.” [00:11:09] “Open Source has the same problems that a creator economy has: It has issues all around attention, monetization, content creation, content consumption, etc.” [00:15:40] “We think that having an NFT of a commit can have value based on historical significance.” [00:19:44] “We want to flip the script on how we monetize open source contributions.” Spotlight [00:33:33] Ben’s spotlight is Exercism.org. [00:34:07] Eric’s spotlight is the Firefox Browser Developer Edition. [00:34:27] Justin’s spotlight is a GitNFT discussion on the Sustain discourse. [00:34:45] Richard’s spotlight is ADHD medication. [00:35:16] Rodrigo’s spotlight is Bioconductor. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse Rodrigo Mendoza Twitter Rodrigo Mendoza LinkedIn Quine Quine Twitter GitNFT GitNFT Twitter “Devs have eaten the world,” by Rodrigo Mendoza Exercism Firefox Browser Developer Edition Sustain Discourse-GitNFT discussion Bioconductor Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Rodrigo Mendoza-Smith.

Guest John Amaral | Kyle Quest Panelists Richard Littauer | Eric Berry Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we are excited to have two guests with us from Slim.ai, which is a company that focuses on developer experience. Joining us is John Amaral, who is the CEO of Slim.ai and Kyle Quest, who is the CTO of Slim.ai and creator of DockerSlim. We are going to learn all about Slim.ai, who is using it, tools they are building, and why Kyle created DockerSlim. Also, John and Kyle fill us in what they’re doing to give back to the communities and why they have the best developer focused investors. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out much more! [00:02:24] John tells us what Slim.ai does. [00:04:10] Kyle expands on the ‘ai’ part of it which stands for “Application Intelligence,” and what aspects he would go in and modify. [00:08:22] We learn who is primarily using Slim.ai. and the tools they are building. [00:10:53] Kyle fills us in more about the governance of DockerSlim, how he ended up having more contributors contribute to it, and how it maintains itself as a free project with all the work he’s putting in. Also, he mentions Gitpod as a great tool. [00:14:31] John tells us how they are paying themselves and their developers. [00:19:46] Eric asks Kyle and John if they see a shift in the community to where there is more attention and new avenues that containerization is providing, and if they see the developer environment of the future primarily being in the Cloud. [00:24:03] When Richard thinks of the Cloud he thinks of large business practices, which are interested in paying other large projects to host their stuff, and he asks Kyle to share his thoughts on this. [00:26:15] We hear how John and Kyle are maintaining their core value of helping developers do better and their amazing investment partners. [00:29:01] Kyle and John explain what they’re doing to give back to the communities. [00:36:03] Find out where you can follow along with Slim.ai, John, and Kyle and get involved with their communities. Quotes [00:11:42] “There are many ways to contribute: It’s not just about code, it’s about feedback, ideas, and suggestions.” [00:14:52] “We believe in open source as a foundational way to build value with developers.” [00:15:06] “We work in a way that is designed around interacting and giving to developers.” Spotlight [00:37:02] Eric’s spotlight is Lazydocker built by Jessie Duffield. [00:37:29] Richard’s spotlight is Pieter van Noordennen. [00:38:21] John’s spotlight is Railway.app. [00:39:25] Kyle’s spotlight is Docker. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse John Amaral Twitter John Amaral Linkedin Kyle Quest Twitter Kyle Quest GitHub Slim.ai DockerSlim Gitpod Sustain Podcast-Episode 85: Geoffrey Huntley and Sustaining OSS with Gitpod boldstart Sustain Podcast- 2 Episodes with Dave Gandy Lazydocker-GitHub Pieter van Noordennen Linkedin Railway.app Docker Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guests: John Amaral and Kyle Quest.

Guest Duane O’Brien | Mandy Grover Panelists Richard Littauer | Justin Dorfman | Ben Nichols Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. On today’s episode we have two excellent guests, Duane O’Brien and Mandy Grover. Duane is the Head of Open Source at Indeed and Mandy is a Technical Content Architect III, as well as manages a team within the Technical Content organization at Indeed. They are here to talk about the FOSS Fund and the recently released FOSS Fund report. Duane and Mandy go in detail on the report and expand on who it is for, how to use it, tools they used, and things they’ll be writing about in the second report. We also learn the ups and downs of writing, but more importantly how Duane and Mandy built their friendship and trust in the process of writing this report successfully. Go ahead and download this episode now to learn more! [00:03:11] Mandy and Duane fill us in on the FOSS Fund report titled, Investing in Open Source: The FOSS Contributor Fund. [00:04:57] We learn more about how the FOSS Contributor Fund started, what it is, and how the response has been so far. [00:09:06] Justin wonders if Duane and Mandy ever thought this would become the blueprint, and then we hear the story how the Sentry thing came about. [00:16:08] Learn about some new things coming out in the second report. [00:19:24] Duane explains how you can still use this report even if your organization is not huge. [00:20:56] Richard wonders if you were a coder, how could you make yourself more eligible to be a recipient of funds. [00:24:19] Find out about a few of the tools they talk about in the report, one which is called Starfish. [00:26:28] Mandy fills us in on how everything went when they released the report and how they set expectations with each other. Duane also brings up about asking maintainers to write things. [00:33:54] Find out where you can find this report and where you can find Duane and Mandy online. Quotes [00:13:56] “We had this moment where we were like, it’s certainly projects, it’s certainly money, it’s certainly all these things, but at the heart of it is people.” [00:21:17] “The biggest problem that we don’t talk about is this: You are a single project in a sea of thousands that organizations may depend on.” [00:26:48] “We set expectations early, we knew the goal, and we were always there supporting each other and holding each other accountable.” [00:33:12] “Let’s temper our expectation of what we want maintainers to do when it comes to documenting things because it’s not easy.” Spotlight [00:35:15] Justin’s spotlight is Opensourcestories.org. [00:35:35] Ben’s spotlights are 24 Pull Requests and The Good Docs Project. [00:36:37] Richard’s spotlight is John Hill. [00:37:08] Mandy’s spotlight is to watch all movies. [00:38:29] Duane’s spotlight is the book, A Psalm for the Wild- Built by Becky Chambers. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse Duane O’Brien Twitter Duane O’Brien Linkedin Mandy Grover Twitter Mandy Grover Twitter (Indeed) Mandy Grover Linkedin Indeed Open Source Investing in Open Source: The FOSS Contributor Fund-(EBOOK) Sustain Podcast-Episode 80: Emma Irwin and the FOSS Fund Program Sustain Podcast-Episode 96: Chad Whitacre and how Sentry is giving $150k to their OSS Dependencies Sustain Podcast- Episode 38: Working Group Updates with Justin & Javi Sustain Podcast-Episode 101: Nicholas Zakas and ESLint FOSS Contributor Fund Starfish-GitHub Open Source Stories 24 Pull Requests The Good Docs Project John Hill John Hill Twitter Sunset Blvd All the President’s Men David Lynch movies A Psalm for the Wild-Built (Monk & Robot #1) by Becky Chambers Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guests: Duane O’Brien and Mandy Grover.

Guest Samuel Wein Panelists Richard Littauer | Justin Dorfman Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. On today’s episode, we are very excited to have as our guest, Samuel Wein, who is a core developer and Executive Chairman of the OpenMS Foundation, a Post Doc at University of Tuebingen in Germany, and the head of a software consultancy specializing in analysis of RNA using Mass Spectrometry. Samuel fills us in on OpenMS and Mass Spectrometry and how he’s trying to make it better and expand it. He explains more about the governance process, how the funding process is going, training programs he’s done, and an internship program in the works to get more diversity. Samuel shares some great groups to get involved in the open source projects sciences area, and what he would like to change with OpenMS. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out more! [00:02:14] Samuel is a scientist, so we find out how he ended up being a coder. [00:03:27] Samuel explains OpenMS and Mass Spectrometry, and Justin wonders if this was instrumental in the mRNA research from Moderna and the other place that Pfizer teamed up with. [00:06:47] Justin wonders how many times Samuel has been trying to get recruited from companies, such as Moderna, since they are probably looking for people like Samuel, and what’s keeping him away from them. [00:08:14] Richard wonders what the governance process was like. [00:11:09] Samuel has three partnerships for funding right now and Justin wonders if they are his go-to or if he needs to get more funding from different partners. [00:13:08] Richard asks Samuel if he can talk about how he’s keeping the project from ending up bending the corporate interest and what it looks like for him. [00:14:29] Justin wonders what other revenue streams Samuel has besides his donors and grants and if he has any training programs that he’s put together. [00:17:34] Besides documentation, Richard is curious to know if Samuel could think of looking at his organization and then the wider field as a whole of really improving JEDI work, and if there’s anything he’s working on besides that. [00:20:00] Samuel explains how people can get involved and what was helpful for him. [00:22:17] We find out what Samuel is interested in learning and changing, as well as other things he’s interested in doing with OpenMS. [00:24:07] Samuel suggests some groups that have useful to him to join, such as Open Bio, EuBIC-MS, and HUPO PSI. [00:25:45] Find out where you can follow Samuel on the internet. Quotes [00:08:19] “My experience with scientific projects developed in labs is that they unfortunately tend to have a lifecycle that is contingent upon the career path of the core developer.” [00:08:45] "There are issues with sustainability and maintainability once the original developer has left.” [00:09:39] “[On community organizing in OSS] It’s all volunteer, it’s all passion projects, and you need to steer people towards their passions.” [00:16:20] “We’re looking for a Community Manager.” [00:22:41] “I would like to convince more scientists of the importance of choosing their software based on it’s openness.” Spotlight [00:27:23] Justin’s spotlight is BioJS. [00:27:56] Richard’s spotlight is _The Wheel of Time _books by Robert Jordan. [00:28:45] Samuel's spotlight is Anathem by Neal Stephenson. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse Samuel Wein PhD Linkedin Samuel Wein GitHub OpenMS [email protected] Otakon Open Bioinformatics Foundation EuBIC-MS (European Bioinformatics Community for Mass Spectrometry) HUPO-PSI (HUPO Proteomics Standards Initiative) BioJs The Eye of the World: Book One of The Wheel of Time by Robert Jordan Anathem by Neal Stephenson Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Samuel Wein.

Guest Ele Diakomichalis Panelists Richard Littauer | Eric Berry | Pia Mancini Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We are very excited to have as our guest today, Ele Diakomichalis, who is one of the Co-Founders and one of the core contributors to Radicle. What is Radicle? It’s a decentralized stack for code collaboration that enables developers to collaborate on code, govern code, and fund code in a decentralized way. Ele fills us in more about Radicle, how many people are on the team, how many people use it, the financial commitment to using Radicle, and he explains the three layers to the Radicle stack. Also, we find out Ele’s pipe dream for long-term usage of Radicle and his thoughts on how he thinks he can change the coding space for JavaScript and Ruby coders, and people who want to make open source better. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out more about how to get involved in Radicle! [00:01:28] Ele fills us in on what Radicle is and why it’s so awesome. Also, we learn how Radicle is different than using GitHub and then paying people through Open Collective using Ethereum. [00:08:39] We learn more about the financial commitment that somebody using Radicle might be obligated to or not obligated to. [00:15:29] Richard wonders what the current scope of Radicle is, how many people use it, and how big the team is. [00:18:09] What is Ele’s pipe dream for long-term usage of Radicle for the average contributor who doesn’t want anything to do with P2P or Crypto, and how does he think he can change the coding space for JavaScript coders, Ruby coders, or people who are interested in just making open source better and working on stuff? [00:22:42] The topic of finding a path for open source creators to capture more value out of their creations through a coin or token is brought up by Pia and she wonders how that’s looking now for Ele with Radicle, as well as challenges of paying or getting paid for value creation in open source. [00:32:12] If you want to get involved in Radicle find out where you can go. [00:33:25] Find out where you can follow Ele online. Quotes [00:06:25] “One of the things that we actually do with Radicle is actually leveraging Ethereum for code governance.” [00:13:28] “The last thing is basically what we call Radicle Funding, and this is basically our contribution to the open sustainability problem where you, as a maintainer, you can actually raise funds from your supporters, either as donations or in exchange for something within your community.” [00:19:17] “The second thing that it’s more of a dream or a hope, but I really feel that what we’re doing with Radicle works is introducing a non-hierarchical model for collaboration.” [00:19:57] “We really hope that we’re going to see a lot of these developers actually realizing that if we can also coordinate in a non-hierarchical way and sometimes this actually looks more beautiful.” [00:30:56] “Because we think that we need to create new cultural norms. We want to make this a norm that every time that you get paid, more developers get paid and try to create this more cyclical, regenerative, someone would say, open source economy.” Spotlight [00:34:31] Eric’s spotlights are iPad mini 6, Gitcoin and Kevin Owocki, and the immense value that Richard Littauer provides to the community, as well as his videos to check out on YouTube called, “Francis Bacon and Eggs.” [00:36:09] Pia’s spotlight is the Lex Fridman Podcast. [00:36:50] Richard’s spotlight is Nassar Hayat. [00:37:29] Ele’s spotlights are Abbey Titcomb, Nassar Hayat, IPFS, SSB, and other decentralized workers. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse Eleftherios Diakomichalis Twitter Eleftherios Diakomichalis Linkedin Elefttherios Diakomichalis Website Radicle Radicle Community iPad mini Kevin Owocki Twitter Francis Bacon and Eggs-Richard Littauer (YouTube) Lex Fridman Podcast Nassar Hayat Twitter Abbey Titcomb Twitter IPFS Sustain Podcast- Episode 57-Mikeal Rogers on Building Communities, the Early Days of Node.js, and How to Stay a Coder for Life Sustain Podcast- Episode 56-Dominic Tarr on Coding What You Want, Living On A Boat, and the Early Days of Node.js Sustain Podcast- Episode 68- Kevin Owocki-Introducing FundOSS.org: A new way of funding open source, by Gitcoin x Sustain Sustain Podcast- Episode 50- Kevin Owocki- Gitcoin, Quadratic Funding, and how Crypto can sustain Open Source Sustain Podcast- Episode 14-Kevin Owocki- Funding Open Source With Gitcoin Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Ele Diakomichalis.

Guest Nicholas C. Zakas Panelists Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. You may know my guest today, Nicholas Zakas, because he is the creator of a very popular JavaScript project called ESLint, which has been downloaded 13 million times each week. Nicholas is an independent software engineer, consultant, and coach, and has written numerous books including, Understanding ECMAScript 6, The Principles of Object-Oriented JavaScript, and Maintainable JavaScript. With over sixteen years of web application development experience and speaking at conferences around the world, he’s putting his focus now on mentoring and coaching the next generation of JavaScript engineers. Nicholas brings us on his journey sharing his story of becoming a developer, starting ESLint, and what he’s doing to make sure everybody in the ESLint community is able to benefit from the money they are bringing in. We also learn more about an interesting blog post he wrote, how contributors get paid, and other open source projects ESLint donates to. Why should you use ESLint? Go ahead and download this episode now to find out! [00:01:39] Nicholas shares his story with us starting out as a developer and how it led him to starting ESLint. [00:03:01] What did Nicholas mean when he said he fell in love with JavaScript? [00:03:47] We find out how long ESLint has been around, how many people are working full-time, and how he keeps himself in funds. [00:05:04] Nicholas talks about the Open Collective and GitHub sponsors they set up for donations. [00:07:42] Richard brings up a blog post Nicholas wrote on, “How to talk to your company about sponsoring an open source project” and he tells us what iterations he’s gone through with ESLint. [00:10:59] Nicholas talks about the difficulties in multi-tasking, and he tells us the next thing they tried with paying a straight per hour rate for team members. [00:17:15] Richard wonders where Nicholas came up with the less than standard rate for hourly work which is not really a Silicon Valley salary, and he also tells us how many hours per month he is paying out and for the people that have been paid, how they feel about it, and having no caps on what people can make. [00:20:43] Nicholas mentions using Tidelift, how much money it brings in, and the money going to TSC members. [00:22:04] Find out what else Nicholas is doing with the money besides paying contributors. He mentions several other open source projects they are donating to, and one person in particular he mentions is Sindre Sorhus. [00:27:58] Richard wonders more about the governance process and how Nicholas feels about it. [00:31:52] Nicholas dives deep as he explains three things that would convince him that ESLint would be a project that he would want to use. [00:34:20] We learn some future plans for what Nicholas would do with funds to make the project more sustainable. [00:38:09] Find out where you follow Nicholas online. Quotes [00:03:26] “And I see ESLint as really, this will sound cheesy, as an act of love on your code that we aren’t trying to change what it does.” [00:04:24] “We found that people who have kids are looking for something to do after the kids go to bed.” [00:05:52] “And so, if that is your starting point where even folks who are just coming right out of college are getting 120k each year, that means that’s the minimum that you need to raise in order to hire someone full-time if they’re in a major metropolitan area in the United States.” [00:22:17] “The first thing is we have what’s called a contributor pool, which is money that we set aside every month to pay non-team members for contributions to ESLint.” [00:22:46] “Generally, anything that is of benefit to the project we will potentially pay you for.” [00:24:43] “So, one of the things that we were looking at in terms of sustainability is we’re bringing in a certain amount of money each month.” [00:24:53] “We are building on top of the work of others. And so, why shouldn’t we be spreading that money to those others, because without them ESLint either wouldn’t exist or be a lot harder to maintain.” [00:28:17] “Well, what’s interesting is that when I started ESLint, in my mind this was like a one-year project.” [00:29:16] “And I just kept coming back to, what’s in it for them?” [00:30:44] “And so, how can I ensure the future survival of the project outside of me working on it?” Spotlight [00:38:52] Richard’s spotlight is StandardJS. [00:39:27] Nicholas’s spotlight is a project called Release Please. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse Nicholas C. Zakas Twitter Human Who Codes Open Collective- ESLint How to talk to your company about sponsoring an open source project by Nicholas C. Zakas- Human Who Codes Reading List-Human Who Codes Deep Work: Rules for Focused Success in a Distracted World by Cal Newport A year of paying contributors (ESLint) Sindre Sorhus ESLint Standar

Guest Paul Bahr | DeAnn Bahr Panelists Richard Littauer | Allen “Gunner” Gunn | Eric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Pia Mancini | Eriol Fox | Ben Nichols Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Cue the horns and balloons folks because today’s episode is extremely special. We are celebrating our 100th episode!! Can you believe it? We are so fortunate to have everyone with us, including our editors, as our conversations takes us back to the origins of this podcast and how it all began. We find out a little bit more about each panelist, and thoughts about the future of Sustain and plans going forward. The topic of having more controversy on this podcast is discussed, and thoughts on how each panelist sees the impact this podcast has made on open source sustainability and whether or not we can measure it. Go ahead and download this episode now to hear more and thank you for celebrating this momentous event with us! [00:00:58] We start by getting to know the background of each panelist, where they work, and what they do. [00:08:25] Since Richard always states in the beginning of every episode, “Where are we going,” Paul asks where Sustain is going as an organization and if they have any future plans. [00:13:49] Eriol shares some thoughts with us about the future of Sustain Open Source Design. [00:16:12] Richard brings up wishing there was more controversy on the Sustain podcast and the panelists share more. [00:21:07] Pia talks about some things going back to the origins of this podcast. [00:23:40] We hear from everyone on how they see the impact that this podcast has made on open source sustainability, and if they think we can measure open source sustainability. Quotes [00:15:24] “I really do think that the time for design as a topic within open source has never been more rich, involved, and interesting because of the amount of designers understanding what open source is in all of its different flavors and varieties. And, wanting to participate in new ways or old ways or different ways and doing a lot of really interesting stuff lately. So, I really do think it’s really a special time for designers in open source from what I can tell.” Spotlight [00:32:37] Gunner’s spotlight is OpenNews. [00:33:02] Paul’s spotlight is Descript. [00:33:42] Eric’s spotlight is Firefox. [00:34:04] Justin’s spotlight is Gregor Martynus. [00:34:20] Ben’s spotlight is The National Museum of Computing. [00:35:07] Pia’s spotlight is SMAT (Social Media Analysis Toolkit). [00:35:38] Richard’s spotlight is “Bird Facts with Richard Littauer.” Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse Ford Foundation Alfred P. Sloan Foundation Committing To Cloud Native Podcast Reblaze Curiefense Sustain our Docs (Pilot Episode) Sustain Open Source Design Podcast Open Collective OpenNews Descript-GitHub Firefox Gregor Martynus GitHub Light Years Ahead | The 1969 Apollo Guidance Computer-YouTube Social Media Analysis Toolkit (SMAT) All About Birds-Cooper’s Hawk Credits Produced by (Richard Littauer) Edited by Paul M. Bahr at (Peachtree Sound) Show notes by DeAnn Bahr (Peachtree Sound) Special Guest: Paul and DeAnn Bahr.

Guest Matt Mankins Panelists Richard Littauer | Ben Nichols Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we are very excited to have as our guest, Matt Mankins, joining us from Barcelona. He is a Fellow at Mozilla, currently working on advancing open monetization strategies for the web. He previously worked at the publisher Condé Nast, where he led global monetization engineering efforts for the company’s iconic brands and was the CTO of FastCo magazine. He’s also the Founder of numerous companies such as Lorem Ipsum Books, SMTP.com, Vert, and Fair Tread. On this episode, Matt fills us in on his journey as a Fellow at Mozilla and his ideas about alternative ways to fund the web, which led him to the idea of Kudos, that came out of thinking about payments. We learn what his main goal is right now with Kudos, the hardest problem he’s facing as he develops Kudos, and what he’s trying to accomplish before his Fellowship ends. Also, find out what Matt means when he said, “Kudos are about the creation, not the creator.” Go ahead and download this episode now to find out much more! [00:02:20] Matt fills us in on the history of the Lorem Ipsum Bookstore. [00:03:57] We learn what Matt is doing at Mozilla and he explains Interledger. [00:07:00] Matt describes what Kudos is and how it works, since that is the main thing he is working on now. [00:12:50] Matt explains how Kudos is in the philosophy stage right now and the implementation is up to the various people that implement this. [00:15:22] Flattr is brought up in conversation, and Matt explains something he did called “in-a-moon.” [00:17:27] Richard wonders how Matt sells this to companies and how does he get them involved in wanting to invest in Kudos, and Matt shares a goal he has right now. [00:20:02] Matt shares what he thinks is the hardest problem he’s facing right now as he develops Kudos. [00:21:52] Ben wonders if Matt is looking for particular communities that might be interested in experimenting and Matt shares a dream of his with us. [00:24:09] We find out how Matt is working with the Mozilla communities and how he’s about to be in the “build it phase” and the “promote it a little bit more phase.” He also tells us something he’s hoping to do in the implementation phase with Facebook and Kudos. [00:30:44] Find out where you can follow Matt and his work online. Quotes [00:11:31] “In my mind, this is not just supporting Babel or Henry, but you’re supporting all of the contributors that could number in the thousands or tens of thousands.” [00:22:21] “One of my dreams is that, as a creator, I can just go do my creation and money will show up in my bank account as I do good work to society.” Spotlight [00:31:11] Ben’s spotlight is Open PHD Guiding. [00:31:56] Richard’s spotlight is the Scottish Rail System. [00:32:43] Matt’s spotlight is a GitHub project called libfood. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse Matt Mankins Twitter Matt Mankins Blog Matt Mankins Linkedin Babel JWT Interledger Foundation In-a-Moon Overview by Matt Mankins Flattr The Hacker Milieu as Gift Culture Open PHD Guiding ScotRail (Scotland’s Railway) libfood-GitHub Flossbank The Digital Infrastructure Fund Podcast Hosted By Richard Littauer The Faithful-The King, The Pope, The Princess- Laemmle Theatres Sustain Podcast-Episode 96-Chad Whitacre and how Sentry is giving $150k to their OSS Dependencies Credits Produced by [Richard Littauer] (https://www.burntfen.com/) Edited by Paul M. Bahr at [Peachtree Sound] (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Show notes by DeAnn Bahr [Peachtree Sound] (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Special Guest: Matt Mankins.

Guest Silona Bonewald Panelists Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, our guest is Silona Bonewald, who is the Executive Director of IEEE SA OPEN, which is a comprehensive platform offering the open source community cost-effective options for developing and validating their projects. She is also the Founder of Leadingbit Solutions. We find out why Silona was a taker, not a maker, when she first got into open source, how she went from writing code to working on policy, how she ended up at IEEE, and what SA OPEN does. She reveals her long-term vision for IEEE and open source, how she feels about standards using her Reese’s Peanut Butter Cups metaphor, working on certifications, and she shares her thoughts on where she thinks we will be down the road in the distant future in terms of badges and certification for open source. Go ahead and download this episode to learn much more from Silona! [00:01:30] Silona tells us how she was a taker, not a maker, when she first got into open source. [00:05:20] At some point Silona segued from writing code to working on policy and she tells us how that happened. [00:06:53] We find out how Silona ended up at IEEE and what SA OPEN does. [00:09:08] Silona talks about her long-term vision for both IEEE and open source. [00:11:30] Standards are explained by Silona, how they work, why they think in decades, and who the 30,000 people are involved with standards. [00:14:17] In regard to talking to developers, Richard wonders if Silona feels like she’s often trying to talk in two languages again when people would come into the room while she was coding. [00:18:48] Silona tells us about working on doing certifications and how they are going through badges and are in the design phase right now. She also mentions that IEEE recruits from engineering schools all over the world to get their members. [00:20:00] Richard wonders if some people think certifications are scary and they won’t be able to get them, will this slow down open source development by forcing people to jump through hoops in order to do work. [00:22:00] Find out about a conversation Silona had with Richard Rockefeller and Larry Brilliant. She talks about an experiment they are doing with three advisory groups which include the technical advisor, marketing advisor, and community advisor, which Georg from CHAOSS is running. Also, she tells us about a great article to check out written by Dries Buytaert on the “Makers and Takers.” [00:28:20] Richard mentions a great episode to check out on CHAOSScast Podcast with guest Stephen Jacobs, and he gives a shout-out to Rachel Lawson at Drupal. [00:28:55] Silona shares her thoughts on where she thinks we will be fifty years down the road in terms of badges and certification for open source. [00:34:14] Find out where you follow Silona on the internet. Quotes [00:09:59] “You can pull the data back out, but can you pull the community back out of GitHub?” [00:13:36] “But, I really do love the not doing the corporate dominance aspect, and the trying to achieve the balance pieces I think is really important when you’re creating a standard, especially if you want true adoptability.” [00:14:27] “My favorite little metaphor now is chocolate and peanut butter. You put your peanut butter in my chocolate. Oh, you put your chocolate in my peanut butter. And then you’ve got the Reese’s Peanut Butter Cups.” [00:23:29] “It’s hard to teach non-profits to become a software company.” Spotlight [00:35:08] Richard’s spotlight is Tom “Spot” Callaway, Episode #52 on Sustain Podcast where he was a guest, and listening about his adventure in Canada. [00:35:48] Silona’s spotlight is InnerSource Commons and the Patterns Working Group. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse Silona Bonewald Linkedin Silona Bonewald Twitter IEEE SA OPEN Leadingbit Solutions The Long Now Foundation CHAOSScast Podcast Project OCEAN Digital Impact Alliance Open Source Center Drupal Sustain Podcast-Episode 88-Foundations Roundtable: From Maintain to Sustain with Rachel Lawson and other guests Sustain Podcast-Episode 35-Why the Drupal Community Cares with Rachel Lawson OSPOCon 2021 IEEE SA OPEN Community Advisory Group Meetings Balancing Makers and Takers to scale and sustain Open Source by Dries Buytaert IEEE SA OPEN Community Advisory Group Education CHAOSScast Podcast-Episode 22: University OSPO Metrics with Stephen Jacobs Tom Callaway Twitter Sustain Podcast-Episode 52-Being Willing to be Open: Twenty Years of Coding at Red Hat, with Tom “Spot” Callaway InnerSource Commons Special Guest: Silona Bonewald.

Guest Anthony Ronda Panelists Richard Littauer | Eric Berry | Ben Nickolls | Eriol Fox Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we have an amazing guest, Anthony Ronda, who is one of the leaders in the League of Extraordinary Foundry VTT Developers. Foundry Virtual Tabletop is a standalone application built for experiencing multiplayer tabletop RPGs, which helps you play games like Dungeons and Dragons and other games virtually. Anthony fills us in on the history of the League, the background of Foundry, and the open source module that was created. He also tells us about a really cool game he made, how he found it easier to make friends through the league, more about the Open Game License, and advice on how you can get started in this community. Go ahead and download this episode to find out more cool stuff! [00:01:40] Anthony explains Virtual Tabletop (VTT) and gives us the history and background of the League. [00:03:53] We find out the background of Foundry and how it’s geared more towards Dungeons & Dragons and tabletop role-playing games, and Anthony tells us how the adoption has been over the past couple of years. [00:07:29] In talking about the API developer community, we learn how this relates to open source and what type of contributions exist. Anthony mentions a book by Nadia Eghbal that helped him make sense of what was going on, especially with making sure games run smoothly. [00:11:15] Anthony tells us about a cool game he made in Foundry. [00:14:30] The topic is gaming communities and Richard is curious to know more about Wizards of the Coast and what their involvement is with open source and Anthony explains how his league is doing newer novel things. He also explains the Open Game License. [00:19:05] Anthony shares his thoughts on the barriers to entry. [00:21:32] We learn from Anthony how he found it easier to make friends through the league than other open source communities. [00:22:47] We find out how many people in the open source gaming community are there on behalf of their company. [00:25:17] Anthony tells us how you can get started in this community. [00:29:24] Find out where you can follow Anthony online. Quotes [00:15:09] “First off, rules aren’t protectable by copyright. However, a specific implementation of rules into texts are protected by our copyright.” [00:15:33] “Being a market leader doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re the best game, but it’s the game that everyone knows the rules too.” [00:17:47] “You can at least see the correlation if not show causation, that open licensing allows your game to be more popular and go everywhere.” Spotlight [00:30:20] Eric’s spotlight is an open source project called Voxelmade. [00:30:55] Ben’s spotlight is an open source astronomy tool called Stellarium. [00:31:27] Eriol’s spotlight is The Homebrewery, to turn pages into parchment and Dungeons & Dragons formatting. [00:32:19] Richard’s spotlight is the computer game Commander Keen. Also, if you know John Carmack, who is one of the creators of this game, please let him know we are very interested to have him on this podcast! ☺ [00:32:57] Anthony’s spotlight is Codidact. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse Anthony Ronda Twitter Anthony Ronda-GitHub Foundry Virtual Tabletop Foundry VTT Twitter Foundry Virtual Tabletop YouTube Working in Public: The Making and Maintenance of Open Source Software by Nadia Eghbal Open Game License Awesome OGL Projects-Anthony Ronda-GitHub Voxelmade Stellarium The Homebrewery Commander Keen Codidact Special Guests: Anthony Ronda and Benjamin Nickolls.

Guest Chad Whitacre Panelists Eric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we have the fabulous Chad Whitacre, who was one of the Sustain conference organizers in the first year and is currently a Senior Software Engineer on the Open Source team at Sentry, where he helps Sentry’s engineers and users collaborate to make Sentry even better than it already is. He is also the Founder of Gratipay, also known as Gittip. Chad takes us through his journey as we learn more about how he helped fund the first Sustain, and more about Gittip, Gratipay, Sentry, and what they’re doing to fund the open source projects that we depend on at Sentry. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out more cool stuff from Chad! [00:03:08] Chad fills us in how he first got involved with the idea of funding open source, what Gittip did, and gives a shout-out to Liberapay. [00:05:46] We learn a little bit about Gratipay, what it was like shutting it down, and a blog post that he wrote about it that you can check out. [00:08:31] Chad talks about his job at Sentry and what he does on a day-to-day basis. [00:12:57] We learn more about the Business Source License and risk mitigation. [00:16:47] Richard mentions a previous episode with Toby Langel to check out where he talks about the graph of what’s open source and what isn’t open source. [00:17:46] Chad explains what Sentry is doing to give the money back to people. [00:21:09] We hear how Chad made a list of open source projects Sentry uses. He also shares the origin story for Back Your Stack, and he tells us about his use of raw.githack.com. [00:26:33] Chad shares a story that starts at the beginning of 2020, and Duane O’Brien from Indeed contacting somebody at Sentry before he started and offering a grant, and what we learn what happened with the money. [00:29:22] Find out how Sentry donated $150,000 to open source! [00:33:11] Find out where you can follow Chad online. Quotes [00:10:53] “We have a great customer support team, but a lot of times there’s an anti-pattern, which is that I contact customer support and unfortunately their hands are tied, and so they say "I’ll let our product team know, but no promises." Or "I’ll let you know, if this ever ends up on the roadmap." That’s shutting the door in someone’s face - unfortunately we put customer support in that position to have to do that.” [00:11:45] “So one of the big projects this year has been tracking triage time, meaning somebody creates an issue in our GitHub issues, and asking - does anybody ever answer that?” [00:12:22] “Sentry is as open source as we can make it.” [00:18:43] “We just gave $150,000 roughly into the open source community.” [00:27:39] “The wider picture, the thing that we’re talking about, one of the big things obviously for sustaining is: companies need to fund open source.” [00:27:49] “We need to figure out how to have companies fund open source because companies are the ones that benefit from it, companies are the ones that have the money. We just need to figure out the mechanics.” [00:31:45] “It takes time to change systems.” Spotlight [00:34:11] Justin’s spotlight is the Sky Map App for Android. [00:34:48] Eric's spotlight is the artwork on Sentry. [00:35:56] Richard’s spotlight is timeanddate.com. [00:36:41] Chad’s spotlight is Glimesh.tv. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse Chad Whitacre Twitter Chad Whitacre Website Chad Whitacre Linkedin Sentry The End of Gratipay by Chad Whitacre Friends Roastery Twitter Liberapay Sentry-GitHub Business Source License 1.1 (MariaDB) Sustain Podcast-Episode 76-Tobie Langel on what people mean when they say “Open Source” Raw.githack.com Sentry’s Fundable Dependencies What is the right amount to give away?-SustainOSS Discourse Sky Map timeanddate.com Glimesh Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Chad Whitacre.

Guest Marko Saric Panelists Eric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We hope you are as excited as we are to have as our guest today Marko Saric, who is the Co-Founder of Plausible Analytics, which is an open source and privacy friendly alternative to Google Analytics. If you’ve never heard about Plausible Analytics, then this is your episode to learn all about it. With over 4,000 subscribers in the past year, Marko tells us what they’ve done to get people to convert. He also gives us his perspective on how he sees the business surviving in the next ten years, what his future game plan is, and why it’s so important that Plausible Analytics is open source. Download this episode now to learn so much more from Marko! [00:01:33] Marko tells us what he does as one of the Co-Founders, how long Plausible Analytics has been around, and how many subscribers they have. [00:03:57] Justin asks Marko how he handles the bots and how much of a threat are they in terms of making sure that they don’t mess up someone’s expectations in terms of traffic. [00:06:15] We find out how Justin found Marko which was from a blog post he wrote and Justin wonders how this issue has converted people that are so Google dependent in terms of Google Analytics to turn over to a paid service like this, and how the shift has been since he was brought on board. [00:10:25] Eric wonders what’s to prevent developers from adding blockers to this system and is there a reason why they would or would not. [00:17:59] Marko tells us how he sees his business surviving in the next ten years, and if he sees any big plans that he is trying to push to make it so there is that harmony between advertisers and the consumers. [00:24:12] Richard wonders what Marko’s game plan in twenty-five years, where he wants to go in the future, and how to build a more sustainable web for everyone. [00:27:46] Does Marko see Plausible Analytics staying independent or possibly joining a company? [00:30:40] Justin shares a conspiracy theory about what he thinks Brave is doing to Plausible Analytics and Marko shares his thoughts. [00:32:59] Richard asks Marko why it’s important that Plausible is open source. [00:35:29] Marko tells us if he’s worried about people taking the code and just running another “Pausable” Analytics as a fork. Quotes [00:13:14] “My thinking is let’s try to make the devs better by getting website owners to use better tools for people that use ad blockers - the fact is still that most people don’t use ad blockers.” [00:15:01] “There’s a huge disconnect between people, like all of us here in the chat and the more kind of normal dev user.” [00:22:04] “If you actually give your vote and say no, or no to this and yes to that, you’re actually voting to make a change.” [00:22:14] “That’s one of the main Key Performance Indicators these days in companies is how many people are saying yes or no to that little banner we have on our sites.” [00:22:23] “I’m going to take my three seconds to click on options and then scroll down and click on reject because I know that it makes a difference.” [00:24:35] “Yeah, I mean GDPR was a great first step and I think if there can be something similar, but actually just going off to the personal data.” [00:24:48] “Many websites that I visit, the newspapers and so on, they will live from the ads.” [00:25:00] “I understand that there is a need for ads while that is the main monetization method of the web.” [00:26:15] “A few weeks ago, Ethical Ads installed Plausible and they wrote a blog post about it and I was like, “Perfect!” [00:27:19] “You can find people doing studies on their own website, and like personal ads versus contextual ads, they’re seeing no difference in terms of effectiveness or in the kind of income they get or the conversion rate or whatever.” [00:27:34] “You can actually do good business, both as a publisher but also as an advertiser, just by talking to people contextually or whatever other way they can find out that’s not really necessary as part of surveillance capitalism.” [00:28:45] “We just do our own thing and try to kind of do our own little sustainable business.” [00:33:19] “If you’re not open source and you’re talking about privacy first you will probably be excluded from the conversation. People will not take you serious.” [00:33:58] “And if you’re proprietary, a lot of people with technical knowledge and people really deep into this would not trust us because we’re just saying things. We don’t know who you are. Why would we trust you?” [00:35:08] “I gotta trust that by being open source and having so many eyeballs on it at least if there some kind of sketchy going on or whatever, somebody will kind of flag it.” [00:35:40] “I was completely new to all this licensed system. I had no idea I was using WordPress and stuff.” [00:36:29] “And I was like, again, I was new to the open since I ha

Panelists Justin Dorfman Guest Portia Burton · Eric Holscher Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! Today, we have a bonus episode for you to listen to, and we’re calling it “Sustain Our Docs.” If you are looking for your place in open source, then you have found it. We’ll be sharing with you a new concept around documentation and sustainability and all that kind of cool stuff. We’re going to talk about how you can leverage documentation, how you can leverage content to bring more people, more attention, and more funding to your products. We will talk to experts who know how to write content engagingly, interview people who speak about the importance of content having goals, and talk to people who have successfully built projects, used excellent documentation and used the content as the pillar of their success. Our hosts are Portia Burton and Eric Holscher. Portia is the owner of Document-Write, a technical documentation agency, and Eric is the co-founder of Read the Docs, Write the Docs, EthicalAds, and PyCascades. We learn about Portia and Eric’s backgrounds, businesses, and visions for this podcast. They also have conversations about the sponsorship model, the multi-pronged finding model, the meaning of funneling, and the importance of documentation and sustainability. So go ahead and download this episode now to find out much more! [00:00:38] We learn all about the hosts, Portia and Eric. [00:02:05] Portia tells us why she is super excited to talk about financial sustainability when it comes to open source projects. [00:05:35] Eric shares his thoughts on how in the software ecosystem, documentation is a huge part of how people get involved in projects, and he talks more about documentation and sustainability. [00:08:09] Portia wonders what kind of conversation Eric has when talking to a maintainer of an open source project about economic sustainability and its connection to documentation. [00:09:18] We learn more about EthicalAds and the sponsorship model. [00:13:45] Portia goes deeper into the multi-pronged funding model. [00:17:01] Eric explains more about what they mean by “funnelling.” [00:18:27] Portia and Eric explain what this podcast is all about. [00:21:50] We learn from Portia why money was the most off-putting part about open source and one of the biggest problems she had with having conversations about money. [00:24:29] Eric touches on the huge benefits to having really good documentation and some great teasers are mentioned for future episodes. Quotes [00:02:58] “I guess you know the vision is I want to see open source developers get paid.” [00:03:14] “And it just breaks my heart to see such talented, smart people not know how to make that next step and to be able to take a little bit of value or monetize, basically the gifts they put out in the world.” [00:04:45] “So I think documentation is a form of ethical content marketing.” [00:07:12] “Yeah, it’s one of those things that really brings me a lot of joy is seeing success in open source and people getting paid for the work that they’re doing.” [00:09:44] “And advertising is one of the ways, but I think developers know all the issues with online advertising around privacy and everything else.” [00:10:44 “Sponsorship model is a model that you see in other industries such as fitness and beauty, and it’s definitely something that open source projects could emulate as well.” [00:13:52] “I think we also need to have more conversations in the open source community about having different revenue streams, as opposed to depending on one.” [00:17:10] “It’s all the stuff that the successful projects are already doing.” [00:18:04] “And when you write documentation, when you write your blog posts, you’re actively finding your people, and how beautiful is that?” [00:20:42] “ And I’m just remembering, I ran into this thing in the Dev Rel World called the “Orbit Model” or something, and I do think that was a way of rebranding funnels in a way that’s a little bit less kinda loaded already.” [00:23:28] “I just think about the person who’s dropped from a bootcamp and they go into the ecosystem of software or whatever and they’re trying to learn how to be a developer, and they run into so many terrible documentation sites and software that they actually think that the problem is them, when actually the problem is the terrible state of documentation and in many parts of the ecosystem, and working to improve that situation is a huge benefit to lots of people.” Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse Portia Burton Linkedin Portia Burton Twitter DocumentWrite Eric Holscher Linkedin Eric Holscher Twitter Eric Holscher Website Read the Docs Write the Docs Ethical Ads PyCascades Credits Produced by Justin Dorfman Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound Special Guests: Eric Holscher and Portia Burton.

Guest Josh Montgomery Panelists Eric Berry | Alyssa Wright | Richard Littauer Show Notes **TRIGGER WARNING: **There is mention of blood in this episode. Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we have an amazing guest, Josh Montgomery, who is one of the co-founders of Mycroft AI, which is a private open source voice assistant and smart speaker, that customers could access, change, hack, and customize. Josh has also written a children’s book called, Mycroft and the Patent Trolls, that relates to open source sustainability. Josh takes us through the process of how Mycroft AI came about, we learn how it’s different than the other voice systems out there, and more about their goal, which is to provide value to customers in a way that makes them willing and eager to pay for it. He goes more in depth about the book he wrote which started because they realized there wasn’t a lot of innovation on the defense side, and Josh explains the ways the patent system needs to be reformed. Download this episode to find out much more! [00:01:42] We learn more about Josh and the story behind founding Mycroft AI. [00:04:20] Richard wonders how Josh builds this without having huge amounts of data to access. [00:06:04] When Josh talks about “us” he explains who “us” is, how large the community is, and what kind of people are in it. [00:08:21] Josh tells us about the challenges he faces trying to maintain that ethical boundary, but still be competitive. [00:12:37] Alyssa wonders if the business development model that Josh was talking about has been in any other space. [00:13:40] We hear a pitch for Mycroft AI from Josh. [00:15:20] Josh mentions giving back to the community and Richard wonders how that would work and who in particular would get the investment back. [00:18:18] Josh goes more in depth about how far they support people and what their focus is right now with Mycroft. [00:20:21] Richard brings up “Patent Trolls” and ask Josh to talk about the eleven law firms that he hired and the children’s book he wrote. [00:22:02] Josh explains how he feels about patents. TRIGGER WARNING. He shares an example about the guy who invented the “SawStop” and patented it. [00:25:46] Find out where you can follow Josh and Mycroft AI online. Quotes [00:03:19] “You know, we went and decided to do it an open way.” [00:05:26] “So the way we get access to data is by being good stewards of our customer’s data and then giving customers the choice of how that data is used.” [00:07:35] “You know our goal is to make it easier for those people to contribute and then to do as much of the heavy lifting as we can, you know, using company resources.” [00:09:31] “Many of the Silicon Valley giants, I mean for example, Google is under indictment by all fifty states in the United States.” [00:11:49] “And then from a sustainability perspective, you know, the next step to that is to take that revenue and share it with the people in the community who are building the skills that power the technology.” [00:12:31] “You know what I would argue is take the easy way out, which is you know, spying on people and it’s just something we’re not willing to do.” [00:12:50] “Plex is a great example of a company that took an open source stack, XBMC, right, or I guess it’s called Kodi now, took that and built a sustainable business where they provide some additional features for people who are paid.” [00:20:35] “So, one of the things that we realized when we started battling a Patent Troll was that there wasn’t a whole lot of innovation on the defense side.” [00:22:11] “A patent is a quid pro quo. It’s a deal between the general public and the inventor.” [00:23:42] “And so, you know, the patent system needs to be reformed in a number of ways.” [00:23:47] “But I think the two biggest things that need to happen is number one, it needs to be much, much harder to get a patent in terms of obviousness and in terms of people who have expertise in the area being able to reproduce it. So that’s number one. And then number two, they need to create a process that makes it extremely inexpensive and easy to challenge patents as they’re going through the process to get them revoked if they’re bad.” [00:24:24] “And so I think we need to restore the patent system back to what it was originally intended for.” [00:29:28] “You know, we’ve given open source a voice.” Spotlight [00:26:47] Alyssa’s spotlight is reflecting on how valuable open source surveys and polls have been in her journey. [00:27:38] Eric’s spotlight is a back massager by Comfier. [00:28:20] Richard’s spotlight is Greg, who is the unsung hero behind Peakbagger.com. [00:28:54] Josh’s spotlight is the context of gratitude to Steven Hickson. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse Joshua Montgomery Twitter Joshua Montgomery Linkedin Mycroft AI Mycroft and the Patent Trolls by Joshua Montgomery Plex Sustain Podcast-Episode 80: Emma Irwin and the

Guest Dan Lorenc Panelists Eric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we have a very special guest, Dan Lorenc, who is a Staff Software Engineer and the lead for Google’s Open Source Security Team. Dan founded projects like Minikube, Skaffold, TektonCD, and Sigstore. He blogs regularly about supply chain security and serves on the TAC for the Open SSF. Dan fill us in on how Docker fits into what he’s doing at Google, he tells us about who’s running the Open Standards that Docker is depending on, and what he’s most excited for with Docker with standardization and in the future. We also learn a little more about a blog post he did recently and what he means by “package managers should become boring,” and he tells us how package managers can help pay maintainers to support their libraries. We learn more about his project Sigstore, and his perspective on the long-term growth of the software industry towards security and how that will change in the next five to ten years. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out much more! [00:01:09] Dan tells us his background and how he got to where he is today. [00:03:08] Eric wonders how Docker fits into what Dan is doing at Google and if he can compare Minicube and his work with what the Docker team is trying to drive. He also compares Kubernetes to Docker and how they relate. [00:06:13] Dan talks about if he sees a shift of adoption in the sphere of what he’s seeing, and Eric asks if he feels that local development with Docker is devalued a little bit if you don’t use the same Docker configuration for your production deploy. [00:08:49] Richard wonders in the long-term, if Dan thinks we’re going to continually keep making Dockers, better Kubernetes, or at some point are we going to decide that tooling is enough. [00:10:35] We learn who’s currently running the Open Standards that Docker is depending on and Dan talks about the different standards. [00:12:13] Dan shares how he thinks the shift towards open standards in particular with Docker, influences open source developers who are in more smaller companies, in SMEs, in medium-sized companies, or solo developers out there who may not have the time to get involved in open standards. [00:13:45] Find out what Dan is really excited about in terms of Docker, with standardization or in the future that will lead to a more sustainable ecosystem. [00:15:17] Justin brings up Dan’s blog and a recent post he just did called, “In Defense of Package Managers,” and in it he mentions package managers should become boring, so he explains what he means by that. [00:18:01] Dan discusses how package managers can help pay maintainers to support their libraries. [00:22:03] Richard asks Dan if he has any thoughts on getting other ways of recognition to maintainers down the stack than just paying them. He mentions things that he loves that GitHub’s been doing recently showing people their contribution history. [00:23:46] Find out about Dan’s project Sigstore and what his adoption looks like so far. [00:26:35] Richard wonders if Dan thinks it’s a good idea to have that ecosystem depend upon a few brilliant people like him doing this work or if there’s a larger community of people working on security supply chain issues. Also, who are his colleagues that he bounces these ideas off of and how do we eliminate the bus factor here. Dan tells us they have a slack for Sigstore [00:30:03] We learn Dan’s perspective on the long-term growth of the software industry towards security in general, how will that change over the next five to ten years, and how his role and the role of people like him will change. [00:31:35] Find out all the places you can follow Dan on the internet. Quotes [00:10:14] “You kind of move past that single point of failure and single tool shame that’s actually used to manage everything.” [00:12:44] “So, they kind of helped contribute to the standardization process by proving stuff out by getting to try all the new exciting stuff.” [00:16:33] The “bullseye” release actually just went on a couple of days ago which was awesome.” [00:17:04] “It’s a problem because there’s nobody maintaining, which is a really good topic for sustainability.” [00:24:46] “But nobody’s doing it for open source, nobody’s signing their code on PyPy or Ruby Gems even though you can.” [00:29:50] “These are not the Kim Kardashians of the coding community.” [00:30:25] “Something that we’ve been constantly reminding, you know, the policy makers wherever we can, is that 80 to 90% of software in use today is open source.” [00:30:51] “And even if companies can do this work for the software that they produce if we don’t think of, and don’t take care of, and don’t remember that these same requirements are going to hit opensource at the very bottom of the stack, and we’re kind of placing unfunded mandates and burdens on these repositories a

Guest Niels ten Oever Panelists Eric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Our guest today is Niels ten Oever, who is a Postdoctoral Researcher at the University of Amsterdam, and recently published a really interesting report from the Ford Foundation on “Human Rights Are Not A Bug: Upgrading Governance for an Equitable Internet,” which we will learn more about. Today, Niels shares his thoughts on what the internet is, what human rights are, and how to make sure that we all work in the open. Niels tells us about the idea he had to build this powerful tool for the people in Ethiopia and what happened with that. He explains how he got interested in Internet Governance, his thoughts on 5G, working with the Guardian Project to develop the StoryMaker app, and more about his PhD report called, “Wired Norms.” Niels also shares great advice for open source developers on what they can do to make the world a better place. Download this episode now to hear so much more from Niels. [00:01:41] Niels tells us how he got into being a developer and working in open source, and tells us about working with the Guardian Project to develop the StoryMaker app. [00:04:25] Niels explains how he came up with this idea to build this powerful tool for the people in Ethiopia. He talks about his involvement with Tactical Tech and more about the report he wrote for the Ford Foundation on “Human Rights Are Not A Bug: Upgrading Governance for an Equitable Internet” and he goes in depth about infrastructural norm of interconnection.” [00:16:23] Since Niels is someone who is an open source developer and has worked with open tools, Richard asks him how he views the intersection between large unseen infrastructure, human rights, and open source as this whole idea of everything should be able to be used by anyone else and how does that work with him with the idea of privacy. [00:20:56] Niels talks about an article that he did along with Mallory Knodel, that the New York Times printed called, ‘Master,’ ‘Slave’ and the Fight over Offensive Terms in Computing. [00:26:06] Richard is curious to know how Niels personally chooses what level of the stack to approach to figure out how to be a better person. Niels shares his thoughts and advice for open source developers on what they can do to make the world a better place. He mentions Cloudflare as a company that has adopted a Human Rights Policy. [00:31:58] We find out from Niels about writing his PhD report called “Wired Norms,” why he came out with it, and the best part of it. [00:36:12] Find out where you can follow Niels online and learn more about things that he’s writing. [00:36:27] Justin brings one final point about how Niels writes a lot of papers on 5G and how in America there a certain people that have this conspiracy theory that 5G is not secure, and since Niels works very closely in that community, he shares his thoughts. Quotes [00:03:18] “Then we develop different distros for the different parts of the radio station that have been in use ever since.” [00:03:52] “So we tend to think that you need the really fancy computers to do things, but Linux actually allowed me to reuse so much of the hardware and software there to enable freedom of expression.” [00:05:38] “I had also studied a year in Berlin and one of the quotes on top of the Humboldt University directly when you entered is in German and it means “Philosophers have always interpreted the world differently, but what really matters is to change it.” And that’s what I actually wanted to do. I didn’t want to be an armchair philosopher.” [00:08:42] “And then I thought like hey, but all these smartphones people carry around, they have as much computing power as my Linux boxes. Why don’t we actually do editing on that?” [00:09:51] “So then I got really involved with technical tech and other organizations working on digital security issues, but also found out that like teaching people who were under the most stressful situation of their lives to do something else added on top and that the best possible outcome of that behavior is nothing happens is almost like the worst premise for behavior change.” [00:10:30] “So, then I started wondering, why don’t we address this in the infrastructure itself?” [00:11:03] “So, that really confused me because my whole premise, freedom of expression plus access to information equals social change, clearly wasn’t true.” [00:13:09] “What is so interesting about the internet, which consist of more than 70,000 independent networks, lots of different devices from different manufacturers, lots of networking stacks, operating systems, that are all working together, that is possible through what I call “infrastructural norm of interconnection.” [00:14:49] “But this is the nature of infrastructure, it hides itself, it only shows what it breaks.” [00:17:47] “But, as open source developers know, the

Guest Bruno Souza Panelists Richard Littauer | Justin Dorfman Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. If you’re looking to learn more about Java, this is the episode you really need to listen to. Today, our guest is Bruno Souza, a Brazillian Java programmer and a member of the OSI. Bruno is the Founder of SouJava, a Brazillian Java User Group which became the world’s largest, he was involved with some of the earliest JVM’s, and has been very influential not only in Brazil, but in the Java open source works at large. Bruno goes in depth on how he got involved in open source, getting involved in the OSI, and in Java. We also learn more about what Kotlin means for the community, how OpenJDK was extremely important for Java, and how Oracle really embraced the idea of OpenJDK. You will soon understand why Bruno is known as the “Brazilian JavaMan.” Go ahead and download this episode now to find out more! [00:01:44] Bruno explains how he got involved in open source and how long he’s been a developer. [00:03:46] We learn how Bruno got involved in the OSI early on and how he got involved in Java. [00:07:12] Justin asks Bruno how he felt during the legal proceedings on Oracle v. Google. [00:12:35] Richard wonders how the Brazilian government got in touch with Bruno and what role has Brazil played in open source. Bruno mentions a manifesto that his Java group wrote along with other user groups in Brazil, explaining how they, as developers, saw open source and standards. [00:21:51] Justin asks Bruno to talk about what Kotlin means for the community and what other projects took advantage of the OpenJDK contribution. [00:28:41] Richard asks who is paying the current Java maintainers and how do we make sure that companies are responsible in doing that. [00:35:14] Find out where you can find Bruno on the internet. Quotes [00:05:15] “So, for me that discussion really opened my eyes on how important it was for a developer to have access to the source code of the things they are doing.” [00:06:19] “The adoption of Java was important because they were looking for freedom because they wanted to be free from the vendors.” [00:06:47] “And so for me, when I started discussing open source in 2000, my whole objective was to discuss those two freedoms together, the freedom to choose different vendors and the freedom to do what you want with the software you’re using.” [00:09:01] “And so for me, it was more like Google was relying and benefitting from the Java tools, from all the knowledge on Java, for all the developers that knew Java.” [00:09:12] “But at the same time, they did not commit to the community.” [00:09:25] “And then when Oracle took over and they made the lawsuit, right, the problem with the lawsuit was, in terms of copywriting, it was damaging, I think. The way the lawsuit was done was damaging for developers, for software in fact.” [00:11:00] “Sometimes it’s like you’re swimming side by side with whales. The whale doesn’t even know you’re there, doesn’t care that you’re there. If the whale decides to move in another direction, you’re dead.” [00:16:20] “The interesting thing is that the Brazilian open source community at that time was mostly comprised of people using open source, so Linux, and Open Office, so basically people suing tools. And the Java community in Brazil was by far the strongest development community that was developing for Linux using Java. So then basically, we are bringing in the developer discussion.” [00:16:46] “So, for us, the whole point to us, you know, it’s not only about deciding to use open source, it’s about to develop basing your code on the standards and open source software.” [00:17:19] “You can buy software from someone, you can download software from someone, but the big effort that you actually do is to write your own software.” [00:23:15] “And, I think this was very important because Oracle did do amazingly with Java in open source because Oracle really embraced the whole idea of OpenJDK.” [00:26:15] “I think that having Java open source allows you to base other languages on top of the Java VM.” [00:26:55] “But Java is the runtime in all history, the runtime that will have received more investments from companies.” [00:27:30] “Honestly for me as a developer, I see languages as tools.” [00:29:24] “So we still have to battle that with the developer.” [00:29:27] “I mean look, the biggest beneficiary of open source is the software developer.” [00:29:33] “You know you can talk about companies can benefit, you can talk users can benefit, there’s lots of benefits around open source.” [00:30:01] “So, I think the biggest thing that we can do is actually show to companies how beneficial it is for them.” [00:31:15] “But, the more Twitter can get that stuff and put on the VM the less difference there is in between the open source version and what Twitter does, the less differences there are, the more Twitter can benefit fr