Sustain

Guest Otto Richter Panelists Richard Littauer | Abby Cabunoc Mayes Show Notes Welcome back to another episode of Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. In this episode, Richard and Abby are joined by guest Otto Richter. Otto is the executive director of Codeberg, a nonprofit organization dedicated to providing a free and open space for developers to host their software projects. It’s like GitHub or GitLab but powered by free software as an alternative to proprietary software platforms. Today, we learn about the financial model and the inner workings of Codeberg, its commitment to user sovereignty, and its unique approach to open source hosting. Also, we discuss the challenges and triumphs of running a nonprofit in the tech space, the importance of community involvement, and the future of Codeberg. As always, it’s a fascinating discussion, so go hit the download button and hear it for yourself! [00:01:49] Otto explains what Codeberg is - a nonprofit hosting software projectories, created as an alternative to proprietary software platforms and he explains the difference between Codeberg and GitLab. [00:03:37] Otto explains the structure of Codeberg as a registered nonprofit association in Germany. [00:04:52] Discussion about the financial structure of Codeberg, including donations and membership fees. [00:05:41] Abby asks Otto about the membership structure and fees of Codeberg, and he explains that it is an opportunity for larger companies, but it is currently more around individuals. [00:07:02] The discussion turns to how the voting process is within the association, what they are voting on, and how things get implemented. Otto explains the role of the executive board in relation to the membership as well. [00:09:39] Richard is curious about international membership of Codeberg, and Otto explains the challenges, even though 50% of the members are from outside of Germany. [00:11:19] Richard and Otto discuss how about the value of sovereignty in Codeberg's platform and in Germany in general. [00:13:29] Otto talks to us about the about the design process of Codeberg and how it currently works. [00:14:43] Otto shares the current number of users and projects on Codeberg as well as user protections on the platform and managing user expectations around platform availability. [00:19:39] Abby asks Otto about the audience of Codeberg and how they manage reliability. He cites an example for us and explains how they communicate downtime to users. [00:23:41] Otto tells us how Codeberg’s contributors is really a mixed bag. [00:24:50] Richard wants to know why they don’t have a federated system or a decentralized system. [00:30:10] Otto goes into the importance of building up “human infrastructure,” projects coordination, and why they need to spread awareness. [00:32:38] Abby really wants to know about ways of paying contributors for their work, and Otto discusses why it’s so simple in Germany to do so. [00:34:25] Find out where you can follow Codeberg on the web. Quotes [00:30:10] “I think one important part is that you need to pay humans for their awesome work.” [00:30:24] “You need to decide whom to pay. What is the most important thing?” Spotlight [00:35:25] Abby’s spotlight is the Godot Gaming Engine. [00:35:42] Richard’s spotlight is a book of poems by Martín Espada called, “Floaters.” [00:35:58] Otto’s spotlight is the Linux Show Player. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] SustainOSS Mastodon Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Twitter Richard Littauer Mastodon Abby Cabunoc Mayes Twitter Codeberg Website Codeberg Mastodon Codeberg Twitter Codeberg Matrix Codeberg Blog Codeberg Blog – The Hardest Scaling Issue ceph Duane O’Brien – Critical Human Infrastructure UC Santa Cruz - CROSS GODOT “Floaters” by Martín Espada Linux Show Player Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Otto Richter.

Guests Ruth Cheesley | Josh Goldberg Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Note: Due to an issue with Gmail sending the edited podcast to spam (thanks, gmail), this is going out a bit late! Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. This is a special podcast and one of several in this series for GitHub’s Maintainer Month. We’re interviewing maintainers to ask them about their experience of open source and their experience of living as maintainers. Our first guest is Ruth Cheesley, a maintainer and community lead for Mautic, an open source marketing automation platform. Richard and Ruth dive into open source governance, community engagement, and organizing virtual conferences. Ruth shares how she reinvigorated the Mautic community, highlighting the importance of transparency and empowering community leaders, and she unveils her project focusing on governance and fundraising to ensure Mautic’s sustainability. Our next guest is Josh Goldberg, a full-time independent open source developer who’s contributed significantly to TypeScript. They discuss Josh’s transition from TSLint to TypeScript-ESLint, his efforts to boost developer community efficiency, and the importance of fair compensation for maintainers. Also, there’s a conversation on the governance proposal of TypeScript-ESLint and the challenges of fair funding. Hit download to hear more! [00:01:06] Ruth tells us about Mautic and the growing community. Also, the core team/leadership team is made up of team leads for each functional area and Ruth as project lead. [00:03:32] Ruth thinks of herself as a maintainer because she’s instrumental in the project’s direction and ongoing development. [00:04:21] We hear about a challenging time for Ruth when Mautic was first acquired by Acquia in 2019, she was brought in as community manger to navigate this change and was successful in regaining trust an keeping the project moving forward. [00:07:41] Ruth emphasizes the importance of transparency in building trust, and she encourages maintainers to empower their community members by providing opportunities for leadership and ownership. [00:08:57] What’s been fun for Ruth? Organizing Mautic’s first-ever conference which was an inclusive, multi-lingual event with over 300 attendees. [00:12:11] Ruth discusses her excitement about the independent project they’re working on, focusing on governance and fundraising. She expressed her vision for Mautic to be among the top options when people consider marketing automation tools. [00:13:49] We find out Ruth’s long-term career aspirations in open source and community management, and how enjoys the challenge of new tasks and strives to balance her routine administrative duties with more fulfilling tasks that bring her joy. [00:17:01] She advises community managers to keep working in public, even it feels like an echo chamber initially, as people are watching and learning how they can contribute to the project. She suggested that this approach prevents burnout and invites others to generously contribute their time and support to the project. [00:18:09] Find out where you can learn more about Mautic and Ruth on the web. [00:20:22] Josh Goldberg joins us and fills us in on his journey into open source. He discusses the transition from the TSLint project, a linter for TypeScript, to TypeScript-ESLint, a set of extensions on top of ESLint that allows linting of TypeScript code, improving the efficiency and reducing duplication between the ESLint and TSLint communities. [00:22:13] His work is primarily funded through the Open Collective platform and some individual sponsorship on GitHub, and ESLint also sponsors the TypeScript-ESLint project. [00:23:06] We learn about the co-maintainers that work on the team. He also tells us they are working on a governance proposal, involving a system that ranks contributions by points, aiming to encourage maintainers and contributors to keep contributing. [00:24:39] Josh mentions his role as an open source maintainer, which has turned out to be mostly DevRel. [00:25:42] We hear about sustainable funding, and one of the challenges Josh experiences is the necessity to ask for funding, but he sees it as a necessary part of maintaining an open source project that lacks corporate backing. [00:27:10] There’s a discussion on sustainable funding and Josh explains how they have different definitions based on their life situations. [00:28:54] Josh tells us the work is primarily funded through the Open Collective platform and some individual sponsorship on GitHub. He also talks about the governance proposal, involving a system that ranks contributions by points, [00:31:51] Josh mentions his role as an open source maintainer, which he initially thought would be half DevRel and half coding, has turned out to be DevRel, and he enjoys interacting with users and networking but misses core coding work. [00:33:03] One of the challenges Josh experiences is the

Guest Karthik Ram Panelists Richard Littauer | Abby Cabunoc Mayes Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. In this episode, Richard and Abby are joined by guest Karthik Ram, a research scientist at UC Berkeley’s Institute for Data Science and Berkeley Initiative for Global Change Biology, as well as co-founder and director of the rOpenSci Project, and lead at URSSI. Karthik’s journey from field ecologist to data scientist has propelled him into roles that advocate for sustainable scientific software and open science. He currently manages projects, fundraises, and mentors while also overseeing initiatives aimed at developing best practices in software development, advocating for supporting policy, building user and developer communities. He emphasizes the significance of reproducibility and sustainability in research software and offers an empowering approach to maintaining academic software. Hit download to hear much more! [00:02:00] Karthik explains what he does as a senior data scientist, and he tells us that he views himself as an “engineering manager” rather than an individual contributor. [00:03:01] His transition from a field ecologist to a data scientist was triggered by handling large amounts of data and developing software to work with it. [00:06:21] The conversation turns to the JOSS, the Journal of Open Source Science, and Karthik shares the origin story for the software review process. [00:09:03] Karthik dives into the UC Berkeley’s Science Institute, he tells us how it started, and what his role was there. [00:11:11] Karthik’s involved with the URSSI, where they aim to collect and disseminate best practices in software development, advocate for supporting policy at a national level, and grow user and develop communities around their projects. [00:12:55] One of the projects coming up in the fall for URSSI is they’re going to run a school for research software engineering. [00:15:16] Karthik and Kyle assembled a course focusing on the best practices for developing sustainable research software by drawing on topics from past workshops and classes they’ve conducted. [00:17:12] We hear about the commonalities between scientific software sustainability versus normal open source software sustainability, and Karthik explains that scientific software sustainability is unique because it caters to niche groups, making it expensive to build and maintain. [00:20:20] Karthik tells us about a project he’s working on with Patrice Lopez and James Howison, to identify what tools researchers use in various domains, how their usage evolves over time, and which clusters of tools drive research in certain areas. [00:23:34] As part of this project, Karthik and his team are using a tool called, GROBID, to process structured documents to XML, extract entities, and analyze the usage of software mentioned in scientific papers. [00:28:23] Karthik highlights the difficulties researchers face in keeping with best practices for code hosting and archival copies and discusses the misconceptions about GitHub being a permanent archive and the need for a safer, more reliable repository like Zenodo. [00:31:31] Richard brings up the issue of measuring the impact of code repositories and whether a similar system to academic journal impact factors could arise. [00:33:02] Karthik details an approach for maintaining academic software. [00:38:02] Find out where you can learn more about Karthik and his work on the web. Quotes [00:07:43] “They would bring their puppy and ask us to adopt it.” [00:15:45] “Even today, we do not have a good appreciation for research software and the role that it plays in driving research on all the things that we care about.” [00:16:21] “Another pet peeve that I have is that people think money is the solution to everything.” [00:16:38] “If we teach more projects about best practices, it’s very likely that software that integrates those best practices will actually continue to exist.” [00:17:51] “The challenge with research software is there’s a lot of software that sits on the long tail.” [00:28:39] “I think the challenge is that we don’t really need to invent anything new.” [00:36:14] “Part of the work we want people to do is invest community early on.” Spotlight [00:38:47] Abby’s spotlight is Governing Open by Shauna Gordon-McKeon. [00:39:15] Richard’s spotlight is Bertram Ludäscher and William Michener. [00:39:43] Karthik’s spotlight is Patrice Lopez. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] SustainOSS Mastodon Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Twitter Richard Littauer Mastodon Abby Cabunoc Mayes Twitter Karthik Ram Website Karthik Ram Twitter Karthik Ram GitHub Karthik Ram LinkedIn rOpenSci The Journal of Open Source Software Arfon Smith-Chatops-Driven Publishing DJ Patil Berkeley Institute for Data Science URSSI (US Research Software Sustainability Institute) Software ca

Guests Yan Minagawa | Christian Paul Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! On this episode, Richard is at FOSS Backstage 2023 in Berlin, where he has two guests joining him, Yan Minagawa and Christian Paul, from the Matrix Project. Today, they talk about what the Matrix Project is. The project has 80 million users and around 10,000 home servers. We also learn that Christian works on developing bridges for the Matrix project, and Yan is part of the team and works as a Solution Architect, specifically in the public sector in Germany. Also, Yan and Christian are involved in organizing meetups and podcasts about the Matrix. Download this episode now to find out more! Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] Richard Littauer Twitter FOSS Backstage 2023 Yan Minagawa LinkedIn Yan Minagawa Email Christian Paul Website Christian Paul Mastodon Matrix Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guests: Christian Paul and Yan Minagawa.

Guest Daniel Stenberg Panelists Richard Littauer | Leslie Hawthorne Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. On this episode, Richard and Leslie are super excited to have as their guest, Daniel Stenberg, Lead Developer of the cURL project. Today, Daniel shares his journey of how he got involved with cURL, its development over the years, the community behind it, and funding the development. Our conversation also touches on the upcoming release of cURL, the future of cURL, Daniel’s desire to grow the project, the benefits of people to collaborate with and provide support, and the role of cURL in the broader landscape of internet protocols and digital infrastructure. Press download to hear more! [00:01:24] Daniel shares the story of how he became involved with the cURL project. [00:03:55] We hear about the community behind cURL and the number of maintainers involved. He mentions having over 1,100 commit authors in the current repository. [00:05:29] The discussion shifts to funding cURL’s development. He tells us for the first twenty one years he had it as a spare time project while having a separate job. [00:06:28] He explains the challenge monetizing a free software project but emphasizes the value he provides to customers in terms of support and expertise. [00:08:40] Leslie raises the topic of Daniel’s positive and generous attitude despite giving away free software and not always receiving equal support in return. He explains as long as he has enough customers to sustain his work, he remains calm and relaxed. [00:11:46] Daniel discusses the development of his mindset and how he acquired a positive outlook over the past 25 years. He attributes his confidence to proven success, test cases that validate code functionality, and feedback form the large install base of cURL. [00:12:45] Richard asks Daniel about his plans for the future of cURL, and Daniel expresses a desire to expand the team and highlights the benefits of having additional people to collaborate with and provide support. [00:13:56] Leslie takes the opportunity to promote wolfSSL, the company Daniel collaborates with to support cURLS’s growth and provide services to more users, and he explains why he’s working with wolfSSL. [00:17:02] Richard raises the topic funding individual maintainers with the broader open source ecosystem, and Daniel acknowledges that his support contract model might not work for all projects, as it requires a certain project size, importance, and ecosystem. [00:19:04] Security issues, particularly zero-day exploit is brought up, and Daniel emphasizes the significance of security and mentions that maintaining cURL involves devoting a considerable amount of time to fixing bugs, addressing support questions, and handling security concerns. [00:20:32] We hear how cURL fits into the wider landscape of internet protocols and digital infrastructure. Daniel talks about the importance of maintaining backward compatibility in cURL, and how he sees cURL as a tool that enables users to transfer data over the internet effectively. [00:22:53] We hear about Uncurled, which is a book by Daniel. [00:24:32] Daniel tells us what many companies would rather not say, such as companies that choose not to disclose their support or donations to cURL. They prefer to remain anonymous and keep their contributions private. [00:28:02] He acknowledges that extracting significant value solely from donations can be challenging and offering support contracts provides a way to generate more revenue and provide additional value to companies. [00:29:19] What’s hard for Daniel? He attributes his optimistic and positive mindset to his personality and outlook on life, but he also mentions facing struggles. [00:34:24] Find out where you can follow Daniel on the web. Quotes [00:07:35] “My biggest way in is when my customers run into a bug. So, I have this weird incentive to not do it too good.” [00:10:32] “When you’ve been around for a long time and you know if things go well, I can be around for a long time further as well.” [00:21:24] “We haven’t done a breaking change in 16 years.” [00:30:09] “The hard part is the humans, the community, interacting with others, all the cultures, languages, and people.” Spotlight [00:35:03] Leslie’s spotlight is The Swedish Internet Foundation. [00:35:47] Richard’s spotlight is WC and Cat. [00:36:10] Daniel’s spotlight is Valgrind. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] SustainOSS Mastodon Richard Littauer Twitter Leslie Hawthorne Twitter Daniel Stenberg Website Daniel Stenberg Twitter Daniel Stenberg Mastodon cURL wolfSSL Uncurled Everything curl The Swedish Internet Foundation wc (Unix) Valgrind Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Daniel Stenberg.

Guests Omotola Eunice Omotayo | Jan Ainali Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! Today, Richard’s live at FOSS Backstage 2023 in Berlin, and on this episode, he’s joined by two guests. His first guest is Omotola Eunice Omotayo, who works as a community manager and organizer for Outreachy, which is a fellowship under Software Freedom Conservancy. She gave a talk about “Contributor engagement and monetization opportunities” at the event. They discuss the number of applications Outreachy received, the number of interns, and how she manages to keep up with social media and meetings with each intern. Finally, we learn about the HUGE open source community in Africa and OSCA. Richard’s next guest is Jan Ainali, who’s here to discuss a card game. Seriously! The Governance Game is a card game designed to encourage discussion about governance in open-source code bases. The game was created by publiccode.net, which helps public organizations collaborate on developing software for public purposes. The game includes starting states, bugs, and scenarios that are based on calamities observed in the real world. Jan also talks about the Foundation for Public Code, what they do, and how they are funded. Download this episode now to learn more! Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] Richard Littauer Twitter FOSS Backstage 2023 Omotola Eunice Omotayo Twitter Omotola Eunice Omotayo LinkedIn Outreachy Open Source Community Africa (OSCA) She Code Africa Jan Ainali Twitter Jan Ainali LinkedIn Jan Ainali Website Foundation for Public Code The Governance Game Signalen Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guests: Jan Ainali and Omotola Eunice Omotayo.

Guest Nahuai Badiola Panelists Richard Littauer | Justin Dorfman Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, Richard and Justin are very excited to have as their guest, Nahuai Badiola, who’s a freelance WordPress developer, part of the WordPress Sustainability Initiative, the W3C Sustainability Working Group, and a recent recipient of a fellowship at The Green Web Foundation. Today’s discussion covers the importance of sustainability in different contexts, including the environmental, social, and economic aspects. There’s a conversation on the efforts being made towards sustainability and the challenges of translating environmental and social issues for the digital space. Also, we’ll hear about Nahuai’s project called, Doughnut Economics, and his fellowship work with The Green Web Foundation. Download this episode to hear more! [00:02:14] Nahuai is a WordPress developer, so he tells us when he started, and he talks about the three pillars. [00:04:37] He tells us about the WordPress Sustainability Initiative he helped set up and its efforts to create guidelines for building a more sustainable CMS. [00:07:05] We hear about the people who are on the Sustainability Initiative. [00:09:08] Nahuai discusses how they plan to work with plugin developers and hosting services to incentivize sustainable practices and possibly implement a sustainability score for plugins. [00:11:54] The conversation is about the need for sustainability in the WordPress community and the efforts being made towards that goal. They also discuss the importance of buy-in from influential people in the community like Matt Mullenweg and Syed Balkhi at WPBeginner. [00:17:23] Nahuai is part of a working group within the W3C that aims to produce evidence-based guidelines for web sustainability. He tells us there’s a draft in progress and the group aims to present it at the W3C TPAC conference in September. [00:21:22] We hear about The Green Web Foundation and their fellowship program and Nahuai being a fellowship recipient working on a project to bring the idea of “Doughnut Economics” to the WordPress community through and interactive workshop. [00:25:39] Nahuai is considering how to adapt the framework of 12 social foundations and 9 ecological ceilings for the WordPress community. [00:28:10] Richard wonders if Nahuai has any thoughts about making that translation itself an easier process for future people to go through. [00:30:13] Find out where you can get involved with Nahuai’s projects, learn more about him and his podcast you can check out called, Freelan_dev_. Quotes [00:02:47] “I fell in love with WordPress because of the community.” [00:07:24] “We at WordPress Sustainability Initiative can do small things but have a big impact.” Spotlight [00:32:35] Justin’s spotlight is Beginner’s Guide for WordPress. [00:32:52] Richard’s spotlight is the book, Far from Land: The Mysterious Lives of Seabirds. [00:33:30] Nahuai’s spotlight is WordPress. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] SustainOSS Mastodon Richard Littauer Twitter Richard Littauer Mastodon Justin Dorfman Twitter Nahuai Badiola Twitter Nahuai Badiola-The Green Web Foundation Nahuai Badiola Blog (Spanish) Freelandev Podcast Doughnut Economics Action Lab (DEAL) About Doughnut Economics W3C TPAC 2023 Beginner’s Guide for WordPress Far from Land: The Mysterious Lives of Seabirds by Michael Brooke WordPress Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Nahuai Badiola.

Guests Wolfgang Gehring | Ana Jiménez Santamaría Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! Today, Richard is joined by two guests from FOSS Backstage 2023 in Berlin. His first guest is Wolfgang Gehring, OSPO Head at Mercedes-Benz Tech Innovation. Wolfgang discusses the importance of open source at Mercedes-Benz. He mentions the company's recent FOSS convention, explains his role in getting people to work together, and talks about the challenges of de-risking and softening legal requirements. Richard asks for advice on how other large industrial companies can get started with OSPO. Finally, Wolfgang discusses his involvement with the Eclipse Foundation and their efforts to revise the Cyber Resiliency Act in the EU, and a great conversation about how large industries use and evangelize open source. Richard’s next guest he has another great conversation with is Ana Jiménez Santamaría. She discusses her work with the OSPO community and the importance of sustainability in open source ecosystems. Richard and Anna discuss a survey done by the TODO Group. Also, Ana talks about the importance of educating non-tech audiences on open source, and her new YouTube channel helping teach open source in an easy way to those not familiar with the tech stuff, particularly in Spanish, where there is a lack of content. Download this episode to hear more! Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] Richard Littauer Twitter FOSS Backstage 2023 Wolfgang Gehring LinkedIn Open Source Mercedes-Benz Mercedes-Benz Group GitHub Eclipse Foundation Ana Jiménez Santamaría Twitter Ana Jiménez Mastodon Ana Jiménez Santamaría LinkedIn Ana Jiménez Santamaría YouTube TODO Group Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guests: Ana Jiménez Santamaría and Dr. Wolfgang Gehring.

Guest John Robb Panelists Richard Littauer | Amanda Casari Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We’re super excited to have guest, John Robb, joining us today. John is a Community Manager at React Flow, an open source library for building node-based UI. Today, John talks about how they’ve sustained the project without investors and valuing intentionally and autonomy over endless growth. Then, there’s a conversation around paying contributors, supporting diverse contributors, and establishing boundaries for a safe environment. Also, we’ll hear about the challenges of funding open source projects, understanding the purchase funnel, and the need for transparency and clarity around the financial aspects of open source projects. Download this episode now to hear more! [00:01:53] John tells us about React Flow and how they’ve managed to sustain the project without investors. [00:04:50] “Dear Open Source: let’s do a better job of asking for money,” is a blog post John wrote and he used the word “ramen profitable,” so he explains what it means. [00:06:44] John talks about the company values intentionality and autonomy over growth and endless expansion. [00:09:32 ] As a Community Manager, John’s interested in thinking critically about growth and what it means to have a community. [00:11:13] The conversation revolves around the tension between personal greed and the desire for growth in open source projects. [00:15:38] The group discusses the importance of paying contributors for their work and how to invite and support a diverse range of contributors. [00:18:33 ] John tells us about an experience that’s been most relevant to him while doing community management work which was at a design camp called Stone Soup that he co-organized this year. [00:21:13] They discuss the history of open source and how it began with large enterprises working together on project without violating antitrust laws. [00:23:43 ] There’s a conversation about the importance of understanding the purchase funnel and how to make it easier for individuals and organizations to donate or support open source projects. [00:25:44] The group highlights the need for more transparency and clarity around the financial aspect of open source projects. [00:33:05 ] Find out where you can follow John on the web and get in touch with him. Quotes [00:08:08] “We’ve all been raised in this business culture to seek for something bigger and greater, and to grow a company as large as one can. But the tradeoff is great.” [00:09:37] “Do we want to scale our community?” [00:09:45] “Having more contributors makes things more difficult for them.” [00:14:48] “Just talking about the number of contributors isn’t going to help.” [00:15:46] “Being able to pay people in open source is good. People being able to be paid for their work is good.” [00:16:02] “Free time is a privileged resource.” [00:19:20] “How do you invite people and how do you know who you want to bring to the event and who not?” Spotlight [00:33:49] Amanda’s spotlight is the csv,conf 2023. [00:34:39] Richard’s spotlight is the ABA Podcast (American Birding). [00:35:19] John’s spotlight is The Hippocratic License 3.0. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] SustainOSS Mastodon Richard Littauer-iNaturalist Richard Littauer Mastodon Amanda Casari Twitter John Robb LinkedIn John Robb Twitter John Robb Mastodon John Robb email React Flow Dear Open Source: let’s do a better job of asking for money by John Robb Juli Sikorska LinkedIn Stone Soup The Green Bottle: Personal Financial Experience sliding scale Money and Open Source by Isaacs The Ethics of Unpaid Labor and the OSS Community by Ashe Dryden csv,conf 2023 American Birding Podcast The Hippocratic License 3.0 Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: John Robb.

Guest Gregor Bransky Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! On this episode, Richard is in Berlin this week at FOSS Backstage 2023, and he is joined by his guest, Gregor Bransky, who’s an artist, hacker, and computer technician. He discussed his experiences at CCC and how they value the creation of beauty using technology as part of their "Hacker Ethics." Gregor also discusses his role as a board member for present policy of the Innovation Council Public Health, an NGO that developed digital tools to fight COVID-19. The organization participated in the Virus Hackathon by the German government in March 2020, which led to the creation of projects such as a digital waiting room for communication with public health centers. Download this episode to hear more! Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] Richard Littauer Twitter FOSS Backstage 2023 Gregor Bransky LinkedIn Gregor Bransky Twitter Inoeg-Innovationsverbund Öffentliche Gesundheit Inoeg mastaodon CCC Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Gregor Bransky.

Guest Martin Woodward Panelists Richard Littauer | Ben Nickolls Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. This is a special podcast and one of several in this series for GitHub’s Maintainer Month. We’re interviewing maintainers to ask them about their experience of open source and their experience of living as maintainers. We are super excited to talk to our guest, Martin Woodward, who’s the VP of Developer Relations at GitHub. Today, Martin explains the origins of Maintainer Month and discusses his role in supporting open source maintainers and helping them succeed with GitHub. The conversation also covers topics such as the distinction between open source authors and maintainers, the GitHub Accelerator program and the M12 fund, the future of maintainership and funding challenges, and strategies for setting expectations for senior management and funders. There’s much more, so hit download now! [00:01:30] Martin explains that his role involves supporting open source maintainers and helping them succeed with GitHub. [00:02:46] How does Martin distinguish between DevRel and GitHub and make sure the work he does helps people who are maintainers. [00:04:54] Martin discusses the origins of Maintainer Month, starting with a virtual maintainer summit during the pandemic, which later expanded to involve the entire community. [00:07:38] Ben brings up how Maintainer’s month seems to be evolving, and Martin tells us the event aims to provide a safe space for maintainers to connect, share best practices, and raise awareness among developers about the challenges and importance of maintaining open source projects. [00:10:17] Martin explains the different segments within the maintainer community, ranging from contributors to maintainers who set the direction and run the projects, and emphasizes the need for respect and understanding of the diverse governance structures. [00:12:32] Ben discusses the distinction between open source authors and maintainers, highlighting the challenge of maintaining projects and the need for support and resources in that role, and he brings up a resource library. [00:15:34] The conversation shifts to the future of maintainership, focusing on the funding challenges faced by maintainers and the various motivations and expectations within the open source community. [00:17:12] The discussion touches on the involvement of venture capital firms asking for open source strategies from start-ups. [00:18:54] We hear about the involvement in the GitHub Accelerator program and M12 fund, with members of their team driving the first cohort and providing funding and training to open source start-ups. [00:22:44] Martin acknowledges the importance of maintaining boundaries and saying no as a maintainer, and shares how GitHub is incorporating feedback from maintainers into product features, such as interaction limits and status settings. He also mentions personal strategies for avoiding burnout as a maintainer. [00:27:26] Richard asks Martin for his thoughts on setting expectations for people above him such as senior management and funders, regarding keeping open source sustainable. [00:32:21] Why did Martin get into open source? [00:34:56] The conversation turns to the relationship between Microsoft and GitHub, with Martin stating that GitHub remains an independent entity while benefitting from the scale and resources of the parent company. [00:37:22] Find out where you follow Martin on the web. Quotes [00:08:37] “Other people start using it and all of a sudden you find you’re the maintainer of an open source project.” [00:21:34] “Maintainers are the givers.” [00:21:55] “Maintainers build communities.” [00:25:26] “You don’t have to take everybody’s PR’s.” [00:29:17] “Open source communities value co-contribution over everything else.” Spotlight [00:38:42] Ben’s spotlight is the Merlin App. [00:39:32] Richard’s *spotlight is getting your ears cleaned. [00:40:04] Martin’s spotlight is the WLED Project. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] SustainOSS Mastodon Richard Littauer Twitter Ben Nickolls Twitter Martin Woodward Twitter Martin Woodward Website GitHub GitHub Maintainer Month Dear GitHub Abigail Cabunoc Mayes LinkedIn Maintainerati OctoPrint Sustain Podcast-Episode 157: Joel Wasserman on lessons learned with Flossbank Sustain Podcast-2 episodes featuring Mike McQuaid from Homebrew Sustain Podcast-Episode 149: Naytri Sramek on the GitHub Accelerator and M12 GitHub Fund Sustain Podcast-2 episodes featuring Duane O’Brien Merlin Birding in Vermont WLED Project Octolamp-GitHub Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Martin Woodward.

Guests Predrag Gruevski | Kingsley Mkpandiok Panelists Richard Littauer | Eriol Fox Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. This is a special podcast and one of several in this series for Maintainer Month. We’re interviewing maintainers to ask them about their experience of open source and their experience of living as maintainers. We’re super excited to have two guests with us. Our first guest is Predrag Gruevski, who’s the maintainer of two projects in the Rust ecosystem. Predrag discusses his role as a maintainer for these projects, and he shares his motivations for volunteering as a maintainer, the value of making an impact on the community, and the importance of mentorship. Our next guest is Kingsley Mkpandiok, who’s a B2B B2C UX Designer, Open Source Design Advocate, and has contributed to projects like CHAOSS Africa and OSCAfrica Festival. Kingsley shares his journey as a UX designer contributing to open source projects in Nigeria, he discusses the challenges of onboarding designers, shares his approach to creating a welcoming environment and providing opportunities for designers to contribute beyond initial tasks. Download this episode now to hear much more! Predrag: [00:00:46] Predrag discusses his role as a maintainer of two open source projects in the Rust ecosystem: cargo-semver-checks and Trustfall. [00:01:13] He explains that semantic versioning is more critical in Rust due to the language’s auto traits feature, and breaking changes in Rust can have serious consequences. [00:03:15] Predrag talks about being a volunteer and how it provides an opportunity to make a significant impact on the community while benefiting from the value proposition. [00:06:32] We hear how Predrag values helping early career individuals break into software engineering and finding competent individuals who outperform their peers. [00:08:24] How does Predrag rule out people who aren’t competent yet? He explains how he’s looking for people who are outperforming their peers and outperforming their environment. [00:09:55] Regarding onboarding maintainers, Predrag discusses marketing mentorship opportunities on GitHub issues and being open to collaborating with students or individuals interested in Rust open source tooling. [00:11:15] Predrag acknowledges the possibility of experiencing burnout as a maintainer. He separates burnout from mentorship, noting that not everyone may be a good fit for his mentorship style. He values feedback and growth-oriented individuals and believes in honest conversations. [00:12:56] Richard brings up value propositions and Predrag tells us he enjoys solving hard problems and finding efficient solutions. The question of value alignment comes up and Predrag clarifies that he sees himself as a curator of options for the project, providing a menu of potential directions for new maintainers to choose from. [00:15:26] Predrag mentions that he plans to integrate cargo-semvr-checks into the Rust programming language cargo tool, which would further decentralize the project and make it a collective effort. [00:17:09] Find out where you can follow Predrag and his blog on the web. Kingsley: [00:20:21] Our next guest, Kingsley tells us that he sees himself primarily as a designer rather than a maintainer. He shares his experience of joining CHAOSS Africa as his first open source contribution. [00:23:31] Kingsley tells us it took him about two months to fully understand how to contribute to CHAOSS Africa, and he emphasizes the importance of designers being open to problem-solving and looking for issues to fix within the community. [00:26:16] Regarding onboarding designers and creating a more inclusive environment, Kingsley shares his experience in CHAOSS Africa and a document he created. [00:30:06] Kingsley shares that the one thing he didn’t expect about working in design was having to handle conflict resolution among design contributors. [00:31:41] Eriol asks Kingsley about his vision for change in open source projects and culture to make design more inclusive. He expresses his desire to see more designers getting involved in open source projects, and he encourages designers to see themselves as problem solvers who can contribute to various aspects of open source. [00:35:10] Find out where you can follow Kingsley on the web. Quotes Predrag: [00:04:10] “There’s been multiple prior efforts to build semver-checks in Rust that have failed for maintainability reasons. They were harder to keep going.” [00:05:28] “I felt that for a very small amount of effort, I could have a very large impact on the community.” [00:07:01] “I’m one of those people that believes that number of years of experience is an extremely poor predictor of competence, whether in software or otherwise.” [00:10:10] “I label issues as ‘e-mentor,’ so that means I’m willing to mentor someone to take over implementing this issue.” [00:14:11] “I believe in laying out a men

Guest Lisa Caywood Panelists Richard Littauer | Amanda Casari Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We’re very excited for our guest today! Joining us is Lisa Caywood, who’s the Senior Principal Community Architect at Red Hat OSPO, and has a podcast about cheese, which we’ll learn a little more about. Today, our discussion revolves around managing open source communities, determining their strategic value, and gracefully ending relationships when necessary. We’ll also hear about telco industry’s shift towards open source code, and the importance of community health and strategic alignment with Red Hat’s objectives in deciding whether to continue investing in a particular community. Also, there’s a discussion on the challenges of managing relationships between corporations and open source projects. Download this episode to hear much more! [00:01:32] Lisa shares that Red Hat’s OSPO focuses on outbound open source engagement, ensuring healthy and well-governed communities, and advising on engagement strategies. She tells us what a Senior Principal Community Architect does. [00:04:04] Lisa emphasizes the importance of community health and strategic alignment with Red Hat’s objectives in deciding whether to continue investing in a particular community. [00:05:59] The discussion revolves around managing open source communities. [00:08:15] We hear the challenges of parting ways with communities, and Lisa offers insights into managing both individual and corporate transitions. [00:15:06] Lisa explains the challenges of managing relationships between corporations and open source projects. [00:17:30] One key issue is how to communicate with project leaders about sponsorship or support, which requires a nuanced approached. [00:19:37] Networking and telco are discussed as examples of industries where open source communities play a crucial role. Lisa touches on the need for projects to address interoperability pain points and ensure the different pieces of the stack are able to talk to each other in a cohesive way. [00:22:31] Lisa discusses the telco industry’s shift towards open source code, with AT&T leading the way bringing a big chunk of their proprietary project into the open source world, and she mentions the ONAP project. [00:27:02] The scale of projects and problems being tackled in the telco industry is talked about since it’s so exciting to Lisa, who has always been a big-picture person. [00:31:30] Lisa talks about when leaving a community, it’s important to document and take the knowledge and mindset shift towards open source with you to the next community. [00:32:37] Find out about Lisa’s podcast and where you can follow her on the web, Quotes [00:07:13] “The individual has to decide it’s time to leave, but the company also to decide it’s time to leave. Those are two different levels of how to say goodbye.” [00:09:39] “If you’re an individual who’s coming to the project leadership with a proposal or a plan for how you hand things off to other people, is the best thing you can do.” [00:16:06] “It’s more how do I address the feeling and continue to make the sale. That’s a different personality and different skillset.” [00:20:02] “It took a long time for Kubernetes to understand that there’s a little wire on a diagram that connects your apps and that helps different components talk to each other and that’s called the network. You need to include networking people in your community to make this all work and it eventually got there.” [00:21:44] “The number one thing that keep telcos awake at night is I can’t have anything break. The conversations that we have with these companies span many different communities because we’re not talking about one single type of technology.” [00:23:49] “We’re all moving towards the same basic model. We’re all going to be doing 80% of this stuff, so let’s figure it out together.” [00:26:02] “The scale of Chinese telcos dwarfs AT&T in terms of number of users.” [00:30:56] “As a software person in a hardware company, you’re always the odd duck out.” [00:32:05] “It’s important not just as individuals, but as a company to be conscious of what you’ve learned in a community, perhaps documented that these are the useful things that we got from working in this community. Let’s make sure we take that with us into our next community so we can take the best things forward.” Spotlight [00:34:03] Amanda’s spotlight is a research paper, Name-based demographic inference and the unequal distribution of misrecognition (2023). [00:34:56] Richard’s spotlight is the Master and Commander series. [00:35:21] Lisa’s spotlight is Christina Warinner, who looked at gut microbiomes of nomadic herds in Mongolia, which helps from a cheesemaking perspective. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] SustainOSS Mastodon Richard Littauer Twitter Amanda Casari Twitter Lisa Caywood Twitter Red H

Guests Russell Keith-Magee | Uriel Ofir Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. This is a special podcast and one of several in this series for GitHub’s Maintainer Month. We’re interviewing maintainers to ask them about their experience of open source and their experience of living as maintainers. Our first guest is Dr. Russell Keith-Magee, who’s the Founder of the BeeWare Project and Software Engineer at Anaconda working on BeeWare in the OSS team. Russell talks about starting the project, the challenges of transitioning from an author to a maintainer, and the role of Anaconda in the Python ecosystem. Then we’ll have a conversation with our next guest, Uriel Ofir, who’s the Founder and Manager of Ma’akaf, an open source Israel community. Uriel tells us all about Ma’akaf, the importance of members being serious and proactive in contributing to the community, and how they encourage participants to contribute and improve their skills through an “open source party.” Hit download to hear much more! Russell: [00:01:40] Russell explains his role at Anaconda and being the Founder of the BeeWare Project. [00:03:43] The role of Anaconda in the Python ecosystem and the company’s open source offerings is discussed. [00:04:15] Russell discusses the process of starting the BeeWare project. [00:08:03] We hear about the funding problem in open source and how development is something that needs to be looked at. [00:10:15] He tells us the challenges of transitioning from an author to maintainer. [00:11:51] What’s hard for Russell as a maintainer? He mentions struggling when you don’t see progress and the difficulties of finding maintainers with the necessary skillset. [00:14:35] There’s been a lot of effort trying to document the onboarding process and making it smoother for new contributors. [00:15:21] Russell’s excited about the prospect of iOS and Android becoming officially supported platforms in C Python and the progress they’ve made after nine years of work. [00:16:28] Find out where you can follow Russell and read about his work on the web. Uriel: [00:18:23] Our next guest, Uriel Ofir, joins us and he tells us about Ma’akaf. [00:22:28] He explains the community currently has around 350 members and four active projects. [00:26:09] He started the community even after he got a job and manages it by delegating tasks and empowering members to take responsibility for projects, and he emphasizes the importance of members being serious and proactive in contributing to the company. [00:29:48] Uriel shares how they encourage participants who may be hesitant to contribute to their open source community by hosting an “open source party” where everyone is welcome to introduce themselves and ask for help or advice. [00:31:43] Uriel tells us where people can join this group and follow him on the web. Quotes Russell: [00:02:08] “The Python ecosystem is only successful because of the open source component of it.” [00:06:51] “I made some challenge coins that we would give out to anyone who made a contribution.” [00:08:22] “Open source has a funding problem. There are big problems that don’t get solved unless you have someone working on them full-time.” [00:11:22] “Having to create the project was an inconvenience before I can get to the point of having other work on it with me.” [00:11:29] “Open source really is a community. The whole thing is built around people working together for a greater good.” [00:15:05] “The more you can remove every possible obstacle to someone getting that first contribution, the more likely they are to contribute, not necessarily more likely to hang around long term.” Uriel: [00:28:33] “The most important thing about open source is to be serious.” [00:32:07] “I really want people to contact me around the world because this idea is scalable, and I would be happy to help you with that.” Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] SustainOSS Mastodon Richard Littauer Twitter Richard Littauer Mastodon Russell Keith-Magee Mastodon BeeWare BeeWare GitHub Sustain Podcast-Episode 64: Travis Oliphant and Russell Pekrul on NumPy, Anaconda, and giving back with FairOSS Uriel Ofir Twitter Uriel Ofir GitHub Uriel Ofir LinkedIn International OS Party Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guests: Russell Keith-Magee and Uriel Ofir.

Guest Serkan Holat Panelists Richard Littauer | Leslie Hawthorn Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Richard and Leslie are hosting today, and they’re very excited to welcome our special guest, Serkan Holat, who’s a Freelance Software Developer, with over 20 years of experience in researching finance, open source ecosystems, and digital public goods. He advocates for financing open source software with public money and setting up dedicated public funds called Agile Public Funds. Today, we’ll discuss with Serkan, the need to allocate funds to support and publish critical open source software, the importance of sustainability on open source software, and the lack of understanding of the industry’s risk profile. Also, Serkan gives us all the details on an experiment he recently started to increase awareness about using public money to finance open source. Download this episode to hear much more! [00:01:47] We start off with Serkan telling us how the tax cause is going. He proposes introducing an open source tax on proprietary software sales, with the revenue going to public funds for distribution to the open source ecosystem. [00:06:11] Serkan explains how he’s watched the space grow, and he talks about the Digital Public Goods Alliance that recognizes open source software as a new type of digital public good, and the Sovereign Tech Fund. [00:08:35] Serkan tells us why there shouldn’t be any obligations on the developers and what we should do. [00:10:23] We hear Serkan’s thoughts on the Sovereign Tech Fund in Germany, an excellent initiative that he supports as a blueprint for other nations to follow, but scalability will become an issue. [00:12:39] Free Software Foundation Europe has a fantastic campaign. Serkan’s explains the idea of using public sector collaboration. [00:13:56] There’s a discussion on the challenges of implementing public sector collaboration and there’s a suggestion of creating a social contract to increase funding for open source software. [00:16:43] What’s wrong with the market we currently have? Serkan elaborates on this. [00:20:19] The conversation shifts to Richard, Leslie, and Serkan touching on the role of security in financing open source software, they discuss the allocations of funds to support and publish open source software, the need for sustainability in open source software, and the lack of understanding of the industry’s risk profile. [00:28:41] Serkan shares his thoughts on how he’s trying to convince software companies to produce open source software. [00:30:31] Richard wonders how a tax on proprietary software to help out open source communities, is going to lead to a more equitable environment, or all people building open source software. [00:32:45] Serkan advocates for the creation of public funds to finance the open source ecosystem, and he’s been experimenting with this approach for the past 15 months. He chooses three projects from Open Collective each month and distributes money based on their criticality score. [00:34:11] Find out where you can follow Serkan and all his writings on the web. Quotes [00:02:51] “My proposal on that area is to introduce an open source software tax on proprietor software sales.” Spotlight [00:37:13] Leslie’s spotlight is the Chaos Computer Club. [00:38:22] Richard’s spotlight is the Feminist Bird Club, Northern Vermont chapter. [00:39:04] Serkan’s spotlight is an announcement made by Minister Alexandra van Huffelen, at the EU Open Source Policy Summit 2023. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] SustainOSS Mastodon Richard Littauer Twitter Leslie Hawthorn Twitter Serkan Holat Twitter Serkan Holat LinkedIn Serkan Holat Mastodon Roads and Bridges: The Unseen Labor Behind Our Digital Infrastructure by Nadia Eghbal Digital Public Goods Alliance Sovereign Tech Fund Open Source Project Criticality Score-GitHub Open source public fund experiment by Serkan Holat Ecosyste.ms If it’s public money, make it public code!-FOSDEM’23 Public Money? Public Code! Free Software Foundation Europe Switch to open source alternatives in Munich Chaos Computer Club Northern Vermont Feminist Bird Club- Instagram Dutch Digitalisation Minister announces creation of an OSPO Ministerial Address: Alexandra van Huffelen (YouTube) Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Serkan Holat.

Guests Bob Killen | Navendu Pottekkat Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. This is a special podcast and one of several in this series for GitHub’s Maintainer Month. We’re interviewing maintainers to ask them about what their experience is of maintainership and open source. Today, we’re very excited to have two guests joining us. Our first guest is Bob Killen, who’s a Program Manager at Google, serves the Kubernetes project as a Steering Committee member and chair of the Contributor Experience Special Interest Group. Bob talks about the mentoring cohort approach the Kubernetes community has, the importance of titles, and the value of a defined contributor ladder to recognize and motivate contributors. Our next guest is Navendu Pottekkat, who’s a Maintainer of Apache APISIX, the Cloud Native API Gateway. Navendu tells us about his experience in contributing to building, scaling, and maintaining open source projects, his involvement in mentorship programs, and the importance of people focusing on balancing the code with the community aspect. Download this episode now to hear much more! Bob: [00:02:00] Bob’s role at Google encourages him to contribute and to be active in the Kubernetes community and being part of the OSPO, where he’s focused on maintaining the overall health of the project and keeping track of various services. [00:03:02] He’s been in the open source space since mid-2000s and was already working on Kubernetes before joining Google. [00:04:16] We hear about the Contributor Experience Special Interest Group, what Bob does there, and the mentoring cohort approach the Kubernetes community has to help grow people into maintainer roles. [00:07:56] Since Kubernetes avoids private Slack channels, Bob explains how he asks questions in an open place. [00:08:45] Bob finds it challenging to maintain his role in special interest groups while working full-time, as there is always an endless backlog of issues and prioritizing and triaging can be difficult. [00:09:45] What keeps Bob working there? Well, he enjoys the people he works with and going to KubeCon events has helped him connect with so many people. [00:11:45] Something Bob is looking forward to doing is stepping down from some of his leadership roles and mentoring others to replace him. [00:13:15] Bob shares some advice to his potential replacement, and he discusses the importance of titles in helping people understand the time investment and leadership responsibilities of being a maintainer. [00:16:12] He explains the value of a defined contributor ladder to recognize and motivate contributors. [00:16:50] Find out where you can read more about Bob and his work on the web. Navendu: [00:19:29] Our next guest is Navendu, and he tells us about APISIX. [00:21:03] Navendu talks about how he got involved in open source and how he mentors students and new developers who are interested in building stuff in the cloud. Also, he tells us about being a part of the Linux Foundation mentorship program. [00:23:35] We hear about Navendu’s involvement in mentorship programs like Google Summer of Code and the Linux Foundation mentorship program. [00:25:30] There’s a discussion on the importance of stipends for students and how mentorship is an important aspect of open source projects. [00:26:42] Navendu mentions that it’s easy to convince him company and the APISIX community about the importance of mentorship and community in open source. [00:28:24] What’s hard about open source for Navendu? He mentions that working on open source projects can be overwhelming especially when there are always issues that need to be addressed and pull requests that need to be reviewed. [00:30:11] We hear some tips for people to step up to take of the community, and Navendu encourages users and community members to get involved. [00:32:20] Find out where you can learn more about Navendu and APISIX online. Quotes Quote from Bob: [00:14:23] “That title winds up being a much bigger thing because it’s easier to explain than hey, I’m a lead of this.” Quotes from Navendu: [00:23:11] “Being online 24/7 is taking a toll on my health and is not sustainable.” [00:26:52] “There is always some aspect of mentorship when you’re working on open source projects.” [00:29:46] “If you have people focus on community it helps.” [00:30:41] “At some point, some maintainers have to step up and take care of the community.” Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] SustainOSS Mastodon Richard Littauer Twitter Richard Littauer Mastodon Bob Killen Website Bob Killen Twitter Bob Killen Mastodon KubeCon 2023 North America KubeCon 2023 China Navendu Pottekkat Website Apache APISIX Apache APISIX-How to Contribute Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guests: Bob Killen and Navendu Pottekkat

Guests Nick Vidal | Masae Shida Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! On this episode, Richard is roaming the halls at FOSS Backstage 2023 this week, and you just never know who you’re going to bump into. He grabs Nick Vidal, the new Community Manager for ClearlyDefined, which is an open-source project that aims to bring clarity to licensing information for open-source projects. Nick is trying to reach out to different communities to work together, such as OpenSSF and Open Research Toolkit. Nick and Richard discuss the licensing issues related to AI, particularly regarding chatbot models like ChatGPT. They talk about copyright issues related to gathering data, images, and texts from the internet and feeding them into proprietary models. His next guest is Masae Shida, a Senior Program Manager at VMware. Masae is in Berlin to talk about why Asian participation in open source is not as significant as it should be. She talks about how Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) are important for companies as they lead to higher productivity and innovation. However, in open source, she has noticed that the number of Asian participants is much lower than expected, even though there are large populations in Asian countries like India and China. Masae aims to identify the barriers preventing Asian participation in open source and find ways to overcome them. Download this episode now! Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] Richard Littauer Twitter FOSS Backstage 2023 Nick Vidal Twitter ClearlyDefined Open Source Initiative Open Source Initiative Mastodon Masae Shida LinkedIn VMware VMware Twitter Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guests: Masae Shida and Nick Vidal.

Guests Sarah Boyce | David Blass Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. This is a special podcast and one of several in this series for GitHub’s Maintainer Month. We’re interviewing actual maintainers of open source code to talk about what they do, how they like it, and what they need to keep going. Today, we’re very excited to have two guests joining us. Our first guest is Sarah Boyce, who’s a Backend Developer at CheMondis and member of Django’s review and triage team. She talks about her role, her contributions to Django, her experiences on the review and triage team, and shares advice for those contemplating becoming a maintainer. Our second guest is David Blass, who’s a full-time JavaScript open source developer and Founder of ArkType, which is a TypeScript validation system. David discusses community feedback, improvements in the new release, the potential monetization of the project, and the TypeScript market and potential for growth of ArkType. Press download to hear more! Sarah: [00:01:13] Sarah tells us about her work with Django, ways it overlaps with her work at CheMondis, and her journey doing open source work and getting involved in Django. [00:03:04] Sarah talks about her contributions to Django and the Python ecosystem, as well as her experiences being on the triage and review team. [00:04:35] We hear about the supportive and friendly community of Django. [00:07:07] Despite being unpaid, Sarah explains how her open source work has helped her gain personal and professional benefits. [00:09:54] We learn how Sarah manages her time effectively with all the extra volunteer work, badminton, painting, and work. [00:11:34] Why Django? Sarah fills us in on why Django was interesting to her. [00:12:26] Sarah tells us what she’s looking forward to, such as meeting other contributors and maintainers of Django. [00:13:26] The hardest thing for Sarah was the anxiety around doing the first jump and raising the first PR. Also, dealing with people who disagree and get contentious can be challenging. [00:15:09] Her advice to someone contemplating becoming a maintainer is to do some research first, double-check that the repository has a code of conduct, and check the vibe of the conversation before jumping in. [00:16:59] Find out where you can follow Sarah on the web. David: [00:19:07] Joining us now is David Blass. He tells us about ArkType, which is a validator for runtime data that mirrors TypeScript’s syntax for defining types. [00:20:50] David explains TypeScript and how it offers a developer experience. [00:24:51] We learn about David’s passion with ArkType and his community of contributors. [00:26:50] David discusses the funding model, how he’s looking for VC funding and is open to other funding models that allow the project to continue as a purely open source project if that’s viable. [00:27:52] David has another core maintainer that work with him, and he tells us what he does. [00:29:10] ArkType is still at the alpha stage and has not been broadly adopted in production yet, but David plans to make a push in the next couple of months. [00:32:26] What is the goal of ArkType? [00:34:09] Richard and David discuss the TypeScript market and the potential for growth of ArkType. [00:35:58] David shares some final thoughts about the potential monetization of the project, such as using the validation system for instrumented code that checks code that checks code execution for validity and suggests that investors could contact him if interested. [00:37:34] Find out where you can follow David on the web. Quotes Sarah: [00:05:26] “Everything we do is very much in the open and we want to keep it as much in the open as possible, so we don’t have a group of people who have access to information that other people don’t have access to.” [00:11:39] “Django found me; I didn’t find Django.” [00:15:25] “Before you make your first PR, double check that they have a Code of Conduct. It’s a good sign if it is there.” [00:15:46] “[Before contributing], I would look on a couple of the issues or PR’s and check the vibe of the conversation.” David: [00:21:37] “The more you scale a project the more important it is to have static types and clean interfaces.” [00:26:10] “Just to have people who are so deeply engaged with what you’re doing and invested has been such a rewarding thing for me.” [00:26:23] “It’s one thing to know that something’s theoretically important, but it’s another to just have the day-to-day sustenance and engagement you need to feel like you can give it your all.” Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] SustainOSS Mastodon Richard Littauer Twitter Sarah Boyce LinkedIn Sarah Boyce GitHub CheMondis Django DjangoCon Europe 2023 David Blass LinkedIn David Blass GitHub David Blass Twitter David Blass Email ArkType ArkType GitHub TypeScript Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Ed

Guests Chris Baker | Stephen Jacobs Panelists Richard Littauer | Justin Dorfman | Abby Cabunoc Mayes Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we are excited to have as our guests, Chris Baker and Stephen Jacobs, who work at RIT (Rochester Institute of Technology). Chris is the Assistant Director for the Open@RIT Program Office, and Stephen is a Professor at RIT and the Founder of Open@RIT. Our conversations today focus on how academia is trying to integrate open source into traditional academic practices, and how OSPO’s are creating standards and best practices. Stephen and Chris also discuss how to help students deal with diverse incentives in open source and academia, the importance of role diversity in software development, and Stephen advocates for policy change to recognize the value of open work and to give credit to those who do it. Download this episode to hear more! [00:01:39] Chris fills us in on Open RIT where they’re working to build open community and foster collaboration in the open space. [00:03:19] Stephen tells us about RIT having an open source department that teaches open source classes, offers an academic minor, and has an experiential education program. [00:07:50] Abby wonders if OSPO’s are creating more career pathways, and Stephen explains they hope to create more opportunities in open source work in the future. [00:10:19] We hear about The Boyer’s model of scholarship, and a classification system of four types of scholarship, and Stephen mentions the classic “Einstein Eureka” model being one of many, and he brings up Open Work Definition that RIT and a couple of other collaborators put out. [00:15:06] Stephen talks about The Sloan Foundation and why they’re so interested in the research space of open source. [00:17:37] Open@RIT was founded by Stephen, Chris is the Assistant Director, and Mike Nolan is the Associate Director, and we’ll hear about their responsibilities. [00:19:03] Chris explains how he’s helping students deal with diverse incentives in open source and academia, and Stephen adds there’s a need for educating on open science practices. [00:23:45] Stephen believes that policy need to change to recognize the value of open work and to give credit to those who do it. He also discusses the importance of role diversity in software development and how it can lead to more DEIA friendly projects. [00:27:10] What successful alumni came out of the Open@RIT? How about Justin Flory Jenn Kotler, and our very own Django Skorupa. [00:29:29] Chris and Stephen talk about other avenues they’re pursuing to help teach open work outside of the university, and the FOSSY conference is mentioned. [00:33:59] Find out where you can learn more about Open work at RIT and where you can follow Chris and Stephen on the web. Quotes [00:04:25] “We became the second university with an OSPO.” [00:19:42] “We’re taking students given their backgrounds, whether it be full-stack developers, or graphic design, and using that to produce the structure for open work inside of research.” Spotlight [00:36:49] Justin’s spotlight is the 988 Crisis Lifeline. [00:37:23 Abby’s spotlight is GitHub + Slack Integration open source project. [00:37:45] Richard’s spotlight is getyourshittogether.org and Brain Donor Project. [00:38:28] Stephen’s spotlight is Software Freedom Conservancy FOSSY Conf. [00:38:55] Chris’s spotlight is the young ladies in rural high schools who are standing up to passive and aggressive sexism. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] SustainOSS Mastodon Richard Littauer Twitter Justin Dorfman Twitter Abby Cabunoc Mayes Twitter Stephen Jacobs LinkedIn Stephen Jacobs RIT Chris Baker LinkedIn Chris Baker RIT Open@RIT Rochester Institute of Technology Boyer’s model of scholarship Open Work Definition Alfred P. Sloan Foundation-Technology The Journal of Open Source Software Sustain Podcast- Episodes featuring Mike Nolan Sustain Podcast-Episodes featuring Justin W. Flory Sustain Open Source Design-Episode 27: Jenn Kotler on Astronomical Sonification and Designing UX for Science & Open Data 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline GitHub + Slack Integration Get Your Shit Together Brain Donor Project Software Freedom Conservancy-FOSSY Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guests: Chris Baker and Stephen Jacobs.

Guests Smera Goel | Dotan Horovits Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! On this episode, Richard is at the FOSS Backstage 2023 that is held in Berlin every year. Today, Richard has two guests joining him. He meets up with Smera Goel who was featured on Episode 3 of our Sustain Open Source Design Podcast. Richard catches up with her and what has been going on the past year and a half. Smera is a Product Designer and an Outreachy Mentor for Fedora. She is also the Mentor Project Representative for Fedora, in charge of looking after the participation of Fedora in different mentorship programs such as Outreachy and Google Summer of Code. Smera works for a startup in Berlin that has some open-source offerings, and she got her job from an open-source design job board. Richard and Smera discuss mentoring mentors and mentees in the context of software sustainability. Richard’s next guest is Dotan Horovits, who’s the Principal Developer Advocate at Logz.io. and he tells us about his own podcast called "OpenObservability Talks." He explains the dominance of closed-source vendors in the observability space, which has led to a siloed and vendor-locked situation. They also discuss how observability is important for cloud-based web applications and large production systems and how open-source projects should have an open door to the CNCF and how collaborations between different foundations can be beneficial. Download this episode to hear more! Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] Richard Littauer Twitter FOSS Backstage 2023 Smera Goel Website Smera Goel LinkedIn Fedora Sustain Open Source Design Podcast-Episode 3-Smera Goel on Designing in the Fedora Project, Outreachy, and India Dotan Horovits LinkedIn Dotan Horovits Twitter OpenObservability Talks Podcast Logz.io OpenObservability Talks on the podcast apps OpenObservability Talks on YouTube (videocast) Is “vendor owned open source” an oxymoron? Open Source for Better Observability Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guests: Dotan Horovits and Smera Goel.

Guest Dawn Wages Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, Richard is very excited to have as his guest, Dawn Wages, who’s the Python Community Advocate at Microsoft, Core Team Member for Wagtail, DjangoCon Organizer, and Director and Treasurer for the Python Software Foundation. We’ll hear Dawn’s journey into how she got involved with the PSF and as a Python Community Advocate at Microsoft, she explains how to become a PSF member, as well as the benefits, since they’ve made some changes recently. She explains where she falls on the ethical source divide and dives into the AntiRacist Ethical Source License, which is her niche. Also, she shares advice on how communities can be more sustainable at navigating conflict in their communities and reveals that we should lead with empathy. If you’re looking at going to a conference this year, there’s some great DjangoCon’s and a PyCon going on that are worth checking out. Hit download now to hear more! [00:03:31] We hear how Dawn got involved with the PSF and how she became the Python Community Advocate at Microsoft. [00:05:23] Dawn shares why foundations in the open source space seem to continually have this community voting way of entering into the board, if she thinks it’s healthy, and if she thought about it when she was working on Django’s new process. [00:08:27] Both dollars and time are things which are often barriers to entry for DEI, so how does that help diversity, equity, and inclusion versus how it hurts it? Also, we hear about Wagtail and Torchbox and what they do. [00:11:40] Dawn mentioned that the PSF lowered the dollar amount and Open Collective, so now we hear the benefits it gives to an individual to become a member of the PSF, if that’s something people should think about if they’re working in Python, and if it’s possible to join on behalf of the project and not their company. [00:13:30] We hear about a tool called, Fiscal Sponsoree, with the PSF. [00:14:50] Dawn fills us in on DjangoCon 2023, the financing structure for keeping Django going, how they think about sustainability in their community, and DjangoCon Africa 2023. [00:16:51] What does a sponsored chair do? [00:19:04] Richard wonders how Dawn thinks about the return on investment for her ultimate strategy, why these conferences, and what’s the ultimate narrative arc for her seventh season open source Bajor story. Also, she explains why she’s the treasurer. [00:22:56] Richard explains what the Ethical Source Movement is and wonders how Dawn holds the tension and where she falls on the ethical source divide. [00:24:37] We hear Richard’s opinion on one of the problems with open source requiring a huge layout of upfront investment in hours and time and no guarantee that it will pay off, and the work being detrimental to mental health of people working on it. Dawn talks about the Anti-Racist License and explains the “PIES” check-in. [00:28:12] Dawn shares advice on how to help communities be more sustainable at navigating trauma and conflict in their communities without it becoming a drain on resources. [00:31:00] Listen here for a list of conferences you should go to that are Python and Django and where you can follow Dawn on the web. Quotes [00:08:58] “Open source is not accessible for everyone, and it’s not a great method for everyone. It is people who have support elsewhere somehow.” [00:26:34] “I think there are tools we can use to be able to acknowledge the humanity of the individuals contributing, and being flexible and thoughtful about the goals we are trying to meet as a collective, and the goals the individual is trying to contribute or try to receive.” Spotlight [00:33:21] Richard’s spotlight is his friend, Danielle Garber, who’s a personal coach and makes amazing hand woven things. [00:34:08] Dawn’s spotlight is Jeff Triplett, Director of PSF, and Coraline Ada Ehmke, lead organizer for the Organization for Ethical Source. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] Richard Littauer Twitter Dawn Wages Twitter Dawn Wages Website Dawn Wages Mastodon Python Software Foundation At The Root DjangoCon 2023 (Durham, North Carolina) DjangoCon 2023 (Edinburgh, Scotland) DjangoCon Africa 2023 ( Zanzibar, Tanzania) PyCon 2023 (Salt Lake City, Utah) Sustain Podcast-Episode 75: Deb Nicholson on the OSI, the future of open source, and SeaGL Wagtail Torchbox Fiscal Sponsorees AntiRacist Ethical Source License Every Thread Handwoven (Danielle Garber) Jeff Triplett Website Coraline Ada Ehmke Website Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Dawn Wages.

Guest Pablo Ruiz-Múzquiz Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! On this episode, Richard is at the FOSS Backstage 2023 that is held in Berlin every year. Today, Richard speaks with Pablo Ruiz-Múzquiz, CEO of Kaleidos, and creator of Penpot and Taiga. The episode focuses on open-source design and how open-source products can be successful. They discuss how Kaleidos started as a consultancy company, but eventually became a full open-source products company. They also talk about the benefits and risks of focusing entirely on open-source products, as well as the importance of beauty and art in technology. Pablo Ruiz-Múzquiz has been in open source since 1996 and witnessed Spain's huge trend in open source. Download this episode now to hear more! Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] Richard Littauer Twitter FOSS Backstage 2023 Pablo Ruiz-Múzquiz Website Pablo Ruiz-Múzquiz Twitter Kaleidos Taiga penpot Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Pablo Ruiz-Múzquiz.

Guests Paul Berschick | Oleg Nenashev Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! We are at FOSS Backstage 2023 this week, and our host Richard is joined by Paul Berschick, who’s the organizer of the conference. Paul has been involved with Foss Backstage from the beginning in 2017, and he talks about the development of the event and how it has grown over the years. He mentions that the pandemic helped to refocus the conference and reach more people online. Paul also talks about his company, Plain Schwarz. Learn about Paul’s story, his views on the future of open source, and the personal growth required to get where he is today. Richard’s next guest is Oleg Nenashev, TOC chair and community ambassador for the Continuous Delivery Foundation (CDF), and a core maintainer and board member of Jenkins. We hear about Oleg’s talk at FOSS Backstage, the public roadmap initiative in Jenkins. Oleg explains the obstacles he faced, what could have been done better, and how to make open source projects more sustainable and less fragile in general. Download this episode now to hear more! Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] Richard Littauer Twitter FOSS Backstage 2023 Paul Berschick Mastodon Paul Berschick LinkedIn Paul Berschick Twitter Plain Schwarz Oleg Nenashev GitHub Oleg Nenashev Website CD Foundation Open Roadmaps for Open Communities Slides Open Roadmaps for Open Communities Video Jenkins Website Jenkins Participate Jenkins roadmap (stale) InnerSource Commons List of open source projects aimed at helping Ukraine and Ukrainians during War Open Intelligence programs Future Russia - Switzerland Sustain Open Source Design Podcast-Episode 13: Oleg Nenashev and designing at Jenkins Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guests: Oleg Nenashev and Paul Berschick.

Guests Thomas Steenbergen | Josep Prat Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! Richard is at the FOSS Backstage 2023 that’s held in Berlin every year. On this episode, Richard has two guests joining him. His first guest is Thomas Steenbergen, co-founder and organizer for the TODO Group Europe and Head of the Open Source Program Office at EPAM Systems. Thomas talks about his current workshop, OSS Review Toolkit, his background as a software developer, and the three important aspects of open-source software: consuming, compliance, and contributing back. Richard’s next guest is Josep Prat, who’s the Open Source Engineering Director at Aiven. Aiven provides software as a service including Kafka and Cassandra with around 500 employees, and despite its size, it has an open-source program office that focuses on employing people to work full-time on open-source projects. Josep talks about the importance of hiring people with the right mentality, and they look for people who care deeply about open source and communities and are not just in it for the fame and glory of open source. Also, he talks about the importance of diversity in open-source projects, as well at the Plankton program at Aiven for people who want to do contributions in their free time. Download this episode to hear much more! Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] Richard Littauer Twitter FOSS Backstage 2023 Thomas Steenburgen Twitter Thomas Steenburgen GitHub EPAM OSS Review Toolkit I am not a supplier- by Thomas Depierre Josep Prat Twitter Josep Prat GitHub Aiven Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guests: Josep Prat and Thomas Steenbergen.

Guest Hugi Ásgeirsson | Silona Bonewald | Marco Möller Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome back to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Richard is at the State of Open Con 2023 UK in London, and he’s excited to have his first ever in-person podcasts. Today, he has three guests joining him. His first guest is Hugi Ásgeirsson, who’s the Strategy & Partnerships Director at Open Collective Europe. He talks about the differences and benefits between Open Collective in the US vs Europe. Richard’s next guest is a Sustain favorite, Silona Bonewald, who’s the Executive Director for IEEE SA Open. Silona dives into DE&I at conferences and how IEEE and SA Open help with Sustainability. Finally, Marco Möller joins the podcast. Marco is the Co-Founder and Managing Director at PIONIX. We’ll learn how open source is helping sustain our environment, via EV Charging solutions powered by Open Source. Interested in finding out more? Hit play now and enjoy this episode. [00:01:12] Hugi explains how Open Collective Europe fits within Open Collective. [00:03:48] Why does tax structure matter for hosting Open Source projects? Hugi explains the benefits of funding via OCE vs other parts of the world. [00:07:16] If Hugi works for Open Collective Europe...as in the EU, why is he at a conference in the UK? We learn how 50% of all philanthropic donations in Europe happen in the UK. [00:08:34] Hugi discusses his favorite discussions heard at State of Open Con 2023 UK and the takeaways. One word… resilience. [00:13:14] Find out where you can follow Hugi and Open Collective Europe on the web. [00:16:11] Silona now joins Richard. Silona talks about if the sustainability of the ecosystem still depends upon individual members of large projects and corporation at these conferences. Does it help or hurt? [00:17:42] We hear about types of diversity and inclusion that's left out of the conferences. [00:20:40] Silona explains what IEEE and SA Open is, the differences, and her on-going work there. [00:26:29] Richard ask Silona how their platform lends itself towards a more sustainable, more diverse market or ecosystem of open source. [00:31:34] If you want to get involved, Silona gives us two sites you can check out (linked below). [00:32:07] Find out all the places you can follow Silona on the web. [00:33:45] Richard has on a different and special guest for us as the final interview of the conference, Marco Möller. Marco gives us his background and his links to Open Source. [00:35:35] Marco explains how EV Charging works, and how his company PIONIX fit in. [00:36:41] We learn how PIONIX, and their EV charging system is powered by open source and is the main contributor to EVerest. [00:40:46] Marco goes into LF Energy’s (A Linux Foundation Project) involvement in PIONIX. [00:43:59] Richard is curious to find out more about PIONIX’s investors. [00:49:33] Want to learn more about PIONIX, the repository, or Marco himself? He tells us where to find him on the internet. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] Richard Littauer Twitter Open Collective Europe Hugi Ásgeirsson email Hugi Ásgeirsson Mastodon Hugi Ásgeirsson Twitter IEEE IEEE SA Open IEEE Computer Society Open Source Software Project Governance Working Group Silona Bonewald email Silona Bonewald LinkedIn Silona Bonewald Twitter Silona Bonewald Mastodon The Onion - Prague's Franz Kafka International Named World's Most Alienating Airport PIONIX PIONIX Article on TNW LF Energy EVerest Project EVerest GitHub EVerest Mailing List Marco Möller LinkedIn Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guests: Hugi Ásgeirsson, Marco Möller, and Silona Bonewald.

Guest Derek Kozel | Abby Cabunoc Mayes Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Welcome back to another episode of Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Richard is at the State of Open Con 2023 UK in London, and he’s excited to have his first ever in-person podcasts. On this episode he has two guests for us to enjoy. His first guest is the President of GNU Radio, Derek Kozel. Hear the moment Derek blows Richard’s mind about all the uses for GNU Radio. Plus, Derek gets into how a 22-year-old project gets effectively run and funded. Interesting! Then, joining him on the second half is Abigail Cabunoc Mayes. Abby is a fellow Sustainer, a “prominent” (not somewhat) voice in open source community, and the Open Source Program Manager at GitHub. Phew. Abby is here today to talk about the importance of maintainers. Enjoy these great discussions now, just click the download button. [00:01:14] Derek explains what GNU Radio is and all its uses. [00:02:15] Richard’s mind gets blown. (poof) [00:03:08] Derek tells us the size of the GNU Radio community. [00:04:10] This is a 22-year-old project, so grab some takeaways from this experienced community. Derek discusses how they’ve kept it going so smoothly. [00:05:50] Wait, What??!! Richard’s mind gets blown 2.0. Derek tells us how the project all started from a court case. [00:07:12] We learn they are funded by GRCon. [00:08:31] Richard asks how GNU Radio is working to ensure inclusion and diversity. [00:10:34] Derek circles back to funding and how they use funds generated for the project. [00:11:58] Derek talks about his favorite workshop at State of Open Con 2023 UK and learning about succession planning. [00:17:04] Want to find out more about GNU Radio and Derek on the internet? He shares where to find him and GNU Radio. [00:19:09] Abby joins us for the second half and talks about her recent trip to FOSDEM and learning how GitHub IS a part of the open source community. [00:20:05] Succession Planning was a talk she gave at FOSDEM and was well received. [00:20:24] What were Abby’s main takeaways from FOSDEM? [00:21:46] Richard circles back to Abby’s succession planning talk and they deep dive into it. Take notes! [00:24:14] Abby gives advice for maintainers trying to get the right kinds of contributors for the future of your projects. [00:27:41] Not everyone wants to be a leader, and Richard wants to know how people can position themselves that way within a project. [00:29:02] Abby talks about what she’s been working on, which is the GitHub Maintainer Community, a private GitHub repo. [00:30:24] Richard is interested to know if Abby has learned anything from talking to similar community leads at GitLab or Bitbucket. [00:32:35] Find out where to follow Abby on the web. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] Richard Littauer Twitter Derek Kozel Website Derek Kozel LinkedIn Derek Kozel Twitter Derek Kozel Mastodon GNU Radio Abby Cabunoc Mayes LinkedIn Abby Cabunoc Mayes Twitter Abby Cabunoc Mayes GitHub Abby Cabunoc Mayes Hachyderm FOSDEM 23 – Creating Pathways That Invest in New Maintainers Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guests: Abigail Cabunoc Mayes and Derek Kozel.

Guest Ana Jiménez Santamaría | Samson Goddy Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Richard is at the State of Open Con 2023 UK in London, and he’s excited to have his first ever in-person podcasts. Today, he has two guests joining him. His first guest is Ana Jiménez Santamaría, who’s working as the TODO Group OSPO Program Manager at The Linux Foundation. We’ll find out about Ana’s talk at this event, everything she’s been doing for the past few months as the OSPO Program Manager, what’s going on with the regional working groups, what OSPOlogy is, and how the TODO Group works. His next guest is Samson Goddy, a software engineer, open source advocate, Co-founder of Open Source Community Africa (OSCA), and on the Open Source Collective Board. Samson gives us the details about OSCA and the OSCA Fest 2023 coming up in June, that he expects to have a lot of people attending. He also shares a great project called Chakra UI, created by a Nigerian maintainer, as well as a collection of open source projects on GitHub created by Nigerians. We’ll hear about his talk, his favorite sessions, and how he views software sustainability. Enjoy these great discussions and hit the download button now! [00:00:54] Ana went to FOSDEM for the third time, and she tells us what her main takeaway was after being there, and the talk she enjoyed the most called, Open Design. [00:03:00] Since Ana is an OSPO Program Manager she does a lot in terms of output, so we’ll find out what she’s been doing for the past few months. [00:05:15] We hear about the regional working groups, for example the Japanese regional working group, and Ana tells us about some groups in Europe. [00:07:45] What is OSPOlogy? [00:09:03] Ana explains how the TODO Groups work and how OSPOlogy fits within a larger question of open source sustainability. [00:11:45] Richard wonders how they judge inauthentic participation in OSPO’s, and do they ever have any actions what they can say this isn’t what we want. [00:15:39] We hear about Ana’s talk at State of Open Con UK, how the UK gets involved with TODO and the OSPO, and she shares that she sees a need of creating communities with British participants in the OSPO space. [00:17:54] What is Ana looking forward to in the next few months that she’s working on? Also, with all the tech layoffs, she tells us if that has affected the participation in the OSPO. [00:20:50] Find out where you can get involved in the TODO Group and follow Ana on the web. [00:22:05] Richard’s next guest joins him and that is Sampson Goddy. He gives us more details about being the co-founder of OSCA, what it is, and info about OSCA Fest 2023. [00:25:26] Richard doesn’t see a lot of maintainers of major open source projects coming from Africa or Nigeria, and he wonders if we can change that. Sampson shares there’s been a few projects done by Nigerian and African core maintainers, as well as a collection of open source projects created by Nigerians on GitHub. [00:29:06] A tough question is asked about there being a lot of racist and colonialist attitudes towards Nigeria and hard to deal with. Is there anything that corporations or communities of tech people can do to help OSCA and what would the support look like? [00:31:06] Sampson talks about other movements in countries that are not in Nigeria. [00:33:32] How does Sampson view software sustainability? [00:35:10] We hear what Sampson’s favorite sessions have been in the sustain mini events with OSCA and what his talk is about. [00:36:27] Find out where you can learn more about OSCA and the festival coming up, and where you can follow him on the web. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] Richard Littauer Twitter Ana Jiménez Santamaría Twitter Ana Jiménez Santamaría LinkedIn OSPOlogy The Linux Foundation TODO Group Community Samson Goddy GitHub Samson Goddy Twitter Samson Goddy Website Samson Goddy LinkedIn Open Source Community Africa (OSCA) Open Source Community Africa Festival Open Source Community Africa Instagram Open Source Community Africa Facebook Open Source Collective Chakra UI Made in Africa Collection-GitHub Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guests: Ana Jiménez Santamaría and Samson Goddy.

Guest Colin Eberhardt | Eriol Fox Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Richard is at the State of Open Con 2023 UK in London, and he’s excited to have his first ever in-person podcasts. Today, he has two guests joining him. His first guest is Colin Eberhardt, who’s Technology Director at Scott Logic, and a Board Member of FINOS. Colin tells us about some of his favorite talks at this event, what he learned about Confidential Computing, and his thoughts on open source being described as public good. His next guest is Eriol Fox, who’s Richard’s co-host on the Sustain Open Source Design Podcast. Eriol works at Superbloom, previously Simply Secure, which we’ll hear more about that branding change, what Superbloom does, and some cool things they’ve been working on there. We’ll also find out about the sessions they did at this event on financial topics around open source and succession planning. Download this episode now to hear much more! [00:02:03] Colin tells us what he’s doing at State of Open Con and how it’s going. [00:03:51] We hear about Colin’s talk, other talks he enjoyed, and what Confidential Computing is. [00:09:18] There was a fantastic talk about Wikipedia by the Founder, Jimmy Wales, and Colin shares some great takeaways from that talk. [00:14:15] We’re going a little off topic, but no worries. Colin talks about being annoyed when he sees people siting a claim that ChatGPT is going to be the end of software engineering in the future, and Richard and Colin share their thoughts. [00:15:21] Why does Colin disagree with open source being described as public good? [00:19:44] Find out where you can follow Colin on the web. [00:21:02] His next guest is Eriol Fox, and they tell us about the sessions they did on financial related topics around open source, which apparently was a busy session. They mention several projects said that they were investing in usability improvements, which was great to hear. [00:23:04] The second session was on succession planning, what that talk was about, and how many people attended. [00:24:50] Eriol explains what Superbloom does, what they do at Superbloom, the rebranding from Simply Secure, as well as some cool things they worked on there. [00:33:52] Find out where you can follow Eriol and Superbloom on the web. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] Richard Littauer Twitter Colin Eberhardt Twitter Colin Eberhardt Blog Colin Eberhardt GitHub Scott Logic FINOS Eriol Fox Twitter Eriol Fox Website Eriol Fox hachyderm Eriol Fox GitHub Superbloom Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guests: Colin Eberhardt and Eriol Fox.

Guest Aaron Crawfis Panelists Richard Littauer | Justin Dorfman Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Richard and Justin are excited to have as their guest today, Aaron Crawfis, who works in the cloud space as a Senior Product Manager on the Azure Open Source Incubations team, which develops and launches new open source projects to advance the industry of cloud native computing and applications. He’s done a lot of work on Dapr, which is a distributed application runtime where he helped define, launch, and market it to microservice developers currently working on incubations, and more open source stuff across Azure and Microsoft. Today, we’re going to find out more about Dapr, Azure, and working in the cloud space. Aaron tells us about some great projects and cool technologies coming out of the incubation space at Azure, and he shares some awesome advice if you’re a project looking to get into this space. Press download to hear more! [00:01:52] We start with learning more about Dapr. [00:04:39] What’s the difference between cloud native and working in the cloud? [00:07:35] Justin mentions Dapr is mature and there are several companies that use it and wonders what’s keeping Dapr in an incubation state rather than graduating. Aaron also tells us that since the release of Dapr v.1.10, they found that the majority of contributors are now non-Microsoft developers. [00:09:31] We hear if Sarah Novotny and Stormy Peters are involved in Dapr or if they’ve worked on any projects with Aaron. [00:11:59] Aaron gives us his take on why so many people in the cloud space feel the need to gravitate towards large corporations. [00:16:33] We hear about a small business startup Diagrid, and the Founders are building their entire business model around Dapr. [00:18:13] Besides wearing a Dapr hat, Aaron runs the Open Source Incubations at Azure, so he fills us in on what that is, and their most recent incubation they launched called, Project Copacetic. Justin wonders if this project has any similarities to Chainguard’s images or a different approach to tackling vulnerabilities. [00:24:08] Aaron shares how the Azure Open Source Incubations team, as well as Microsoft is giving back more than it takes. He gives a shout-out to the Hugo Project and Doxy, which are his two go-to projects. [00:27:3] We hear about if there’s been a discussion around governance for Dapr and how to make the governance be independent from a single large funding body. [00:29:40] If you’re a project looking to get into this space, Aaron shares some advice. [00:30:57] Find out where you can follow Aaron on the web. Quotes [00:16:26] “Developers and customers will go where the best place to run that software is and I don’t think it has to necessarily be a large corporation.” [00:30:39] “You can make the best piece of software out there, but if it’s undocumented or if you’re doing the getting started guide and you a hit a bug on the first line, that’s where everyone will drop off.” [00:30:48] “Biggest piece of advice, make sure that things are well documented, the value props are there, and the customers will flock right to you.” Spotlight [00:31:39] Justin’s spotlight is a series he’s doing called, tncc-newsletter.com. [00:32:02] Richard’s spotlight is Hugo. [00:32:20] Aaron’s spotlight is Doxy. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] SustainOSS Hachyderm Richard Littauer Twitter Justin Dorfman Twitter Aaron Crawfis Twitter Aaron Crawfis LinkedIn Dapr Azure Sustain Podcast-Episode 78: Stormy Peters: Sustaining FLOSS at Microsoft’s Open Source Programs Office Sustain Podcast-Episode 93: Dan Lorenc and OSS Supply Chain Security at Google Sustain Podcast-Episode 80: Emma Irwin and the Foss Fund Program Diagrid Project Copacetic Hugo Doxy The Non-Code Contributor newsletter Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Aaron Crawfis.

Guest Andy Piper | Ana Meta Dolinar | Gemma Penson Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Richard is at the State of Open Con 2023 UK in London, and he’s excited to have his first ever in-person podcasts. Today, he has three guests joining him. His first guest is Andy Piper, who volunteered to come here and represent the Open Source Initiative. We’ll hear more about he’s helping the OSI today, what changes he has seen with the OSI over the past decade, and his thoughts on the Cyber Resilience Act. His next two guests are Ana Meta Dolinar and Gemma Penson, who are both University students in Cambridge. They had a stall upstairs at the event for Women@CL, which is the initiative promoting inclusivity and community of women who do computer science, either as students or researchers at Cambridge. Today, we’ll learn all about the Women @CL, how they’re helping to fix the huge gender imbalance when it comes to open source and computer science, and their thoughts on the “leaky pipeline” metaphor. Download this episode now to hear much more! [00:00:46] Andy tells us why he’s at the State of Open Con helping the OSI. [00:04:01] We hear Andy’s perspective on how you can benefit from the OSD by being an enthusiast and what it gives you by having the OSD there. [00:06:25] We learn what Andy is currently doing with open source and being a member of the Python Software Foundation. [00:09:44] Since Andy’s been a member for over ten years, he tells us what he has seen that has changed significantly in the past decade with the OSI. [00:11:26] Andy shares his first experience at FOSDEM 2023. [00:12:59] What are Andy’s thoughts on the Cyber Resilience Act? He also mentions a website and blog to check out by Simon Phipps. [00:15:41] Find out where you can follow Andy and the OSI on the web. [00:17:56] There is a huge gender imbalance when it comes to open source and computer science, and Ana and Gemma share the statistics with us as well as what activities they do to help fix that imbalance. [00:19:14] Ana explains more about the Oxford Women in Computing Society. She mentions lobbying and explains how it requires a lot of background work. [00:21:20] We hear more about the Oxbridge Women in Computer Science Conference that takes place April 2023. [00:24:45] Tech has a higher representation of neuro divergent participants, and Ana and Gemma talk about how visible this population is at universities and in computer science programs and how supportive the university is. [00:27:19] We hear Gemma and Ana’s thoughts on the “leaky pipeline” metaphor and why it may or may not work. [00:32:00] The last question is on the topic of governance and how they plan to keep the program existing and onboard new women to this important cause. They tell us about the initiative at Cambridge, and a Big Sister, Little Sister program they have. [00:35:28] Ana and Gemma explain the mentorship from the graduate school, postgraduates, assistant lecturers, etc. [00:36:25] If you’re a company that wants to sponsor Women in CL, find out where you can reach out to them and where to get in touch with Ana and Gemma on the web. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] Richard Littauer Twitter Andy Piper Website Andy Piper Mastodon Open Source Initiative Cyber Resilience Act The ultimate list of reactions to the Cyber Resilience Act by Simon Phipps (Voices of Open Source) Ana Meta Dolinar email Gemma Penson email Women@CL-Department of Computer Science and Technology-University of Cambridge Women@CL Twitter Women@CL Facebook Women @CL Instagram Oxford Women in Computing Society Oxbridge Women in Computer Science Conference Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guests: Ana Meta Dolinar, Andy Piper, and Gemma Penson.

Guest Dawn Foster | Andrew Nesbitt Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Richard is at the State of Open Con 2023 UK in London, which is a conference dedicated towards open source. Today, he has two guests joining him in-person and his first guest is Dawn Foster, who’s Director of Open Source Community Strategy in VMware’s OSPO. We’ll hear about Dawn’s responsibilities at VMWare, some highlights on what she talks about at her talk, some great tools she uses, and the importance of mentoring to grow the next wave of maintainers. Richard’s next guest is Andrew Nesbitt, who’s a Software Engineer, Founder of Libraries.io, and a new project he’s working on with Ben Nickolls called, Ecosyste.ms. We’ll learn more about a project he did a while ago called, 24 Pull Requests, and the newest project, Ecosyste.ms, and how it's different from Libraries.io. Download this episode now to hear much more! [00:00:48] We hear about Dawn’s talk on leading in open source and taking a strategic approach and she shares some bullet points from it. [00:03:33] Is there a way to win an ROI argument with an argumentative manager and how can you win those conversations? Dawn explains ways to justify it. [00:06:54] Richard brings up how he thinks about open source as two different buckets, one as developers, and the other as enterprise corporate models, and wonders if they’re the same type of community, and Dawn explains how they blend together. [00:08:13] Dawn details her job and responsibilities at VMware. [00:10:15] We heard Dawn mention she uses CHAOSS tools, but are there others she uses to make it easier for her as a community strategy? She tells us about a metrics model for the CHAOSS Project called, Starter Project Health Metrics Model. [00:12:19] At VMware, their business units operate independently, and Dawn tells us how they act in more of a mentor capacity for the groups. [00:13:38] Dawn shares her thoughts on how engineers are going to move forward in their career from the project to have the skills necessary to do the same thing at a new project. She tells about a talk she did geared towards maintainers. [00:16:57] How does Dawn operationalize the off giving of trust for maintainers? [00:18:42] Dawn shares how she’s looking forward to a future with looking at things from a data based approach, and where you can follow her on the internet. [00:20:17] Andrew gives us the history of how he met Ben Nickolls, a project he started a while ago called, 24 Pull Requests, and how libraries.io started. [00:28:05] Has Andrew ever looked at projects that are popular or that are infrastructure level which may be used in closed source, but have licenses that discriminate against closed source usage? [00:28:43] Andrew and Ben are working on a new project called Ecosyste.ms. What’s the difference between that and libraires.io? [00:33:50] If you’re looking to improve or understand the stack of your dependencies, Andrew tells us what the most interesting use case of Ecosyste.ms is for a maintainer or community manager. [00:37:32] Find out where you can follow Andrew on the web. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] Richard Littauer Twitter Dawn Foster Twitter Dawn Foster GitHub Dawn Foster Mastodon Dawn Foster Blog CHAOSS Andrew Nesbitt Twitter Andrew Nesbitt Website Andrew Nesbitt GitHub Ben Nickolls Twitter Libraries.io 24 Pull Requests-GitHub Ecosyste.ms-GitHub Sustain Podcast-Episode 70: Avi Press and Scarf Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guests: Andrew Nesbitt and Dawn Foster.

Guest Ruth Cheesley | Mike Nolan Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Richard is at the State of Open Con 2023 UK in London, and he’s excited to have his first ever in-person podcast. Today, he has two guests joining him that have previously been on this podcast. His first guest is Ruth Cheesley, who’s the Project Lead at Mautic. Ruth tells us about Mautic and what her job entails. Also, since she attended FOSDEM ’23 right before this, we’ll find out a little more about that event, as well as what she’s looking forward to at State of Open Con 2023. Richard’s next guest is Mike Nolan, who’s a Software Engineer and open source Community Strategy Consultant helping run Open@RIT as the Associate Director, and he’s the Director and Founding Member of the Federation of Humanitarian Technologists. Mike tells us why he’s at State of Open Con representing RIT and what he’ll be speaking about at his session, and we’ll find out what separates an OSPO at a university from an OSPO in the industry. Download this episode to hear more! [00:01:19] Ruth tells us about her role at Mautic and what her recurring tasks are throughout the week. [00:05:24] We learn how Ruth sets up the community engagement in the Mautic Slack and how she uses Common Room. [00:08:05] Find out Ruth’s journey of getting to where she is today. [00:09:56] In case you missed FOSDEM ‘23, Ruth fills us in on how fantastic it was this year because she was there. [00:11:56] What is Ruth looking forward to at State of Open? [00:14:56] Find out where you can follow Ruth online. [00:16:12] Mike Nolan joins Richard and we find out why he’s at State of Open, and why Rochester Institute of Technology needs to be represented at this conference. [00:18:52] Mike explains what separates an OSPO at a university from an OSPO in the industry. [00:24:10] What does Mike do to help Steve Jacobs make everything happens at RIT? [00:27:27] Mike details how they utilize the students at RIT, not just as an effort of instruction, but as an effort of moving forward with his own OSPO roles. [00:30:18] Mike submitted a proposal for a session at State of Open called, “Entering the OSPO Winter,” and he tells us what he means by winter and what the session is going to be about. [00:32:30] Find out where you can follow Mike online, and he tells us about a great place in England to visit for wild camping. Spotlight [00:13:12] Richard’s spotlight is the eBird reviewers for London. [00:13:53] Ruth’s spotlight is the HappyCow App-The #1 Vegan App. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] Richard Littauer Twitter Ruth Cheesley Twitter Ruth Cheesley Mastodon Ruth Cheesley GitHub Sustain Podcast-Episode 138: Ruth Cheesley, the Mautic Project Lead at Acquia, on Building and Growing Open Source Communities Mautic Common Room Monica eBird-London HappyCow Mike Nolan Twitter Mike Nolan Website Mike Nolan GitHub [email protected] Nolan email Sustain Podcast-Episode 69: Humanitarian Open Source with Michael Nolan Dartmoor National Park Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guests: Michael Nolan and Ruth Cheesley.

Guest Joel Wasserman Panelists Richard Littauer | Justin Dorfman Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Our guest today has been on this podcast before, and we are super excited to have him back on. Joining us is Joel Wasserman, co-founder and Founder of Flossbank and Software Engineer at Google. Today, we’ll find out what happened to Flossbank and what’s happening next as Joel tells the story of how the idea of Flossbank came about, and the challenges and lessons he’s learned along the way. He goes in-depth about the need for funding, the ginormous difference between an open source author and an open source maintainer, and diversity in open source. Download this episode now to hear more! [00:01:23] What is Flossbank? [00:05:59] Onboarding can be difficult, and Joel fills us in on some lessons he’s learned. [00:09:53] Richard brings up a point of finding the right person, and wonders what issues Joel had was because he was the middleman or something else, and if it’s hard to find money for any project in open source. Joel mentions Nadia Eghbal’s book as the best book he’s ever read on the open source ecosystem. [00:12:58] Justin talks about a blog post Joel wrote last June on “The Flossbank Attempt,” where he made a comment “don’t hesitate to reach out,” and he tells us what other projects are actively asking him for advice. [00:15:20] We hear what Joel thinks of the benefits of GitHub sponsors and Open Collective are in comparison to his and why they’re able to garner some money, and his thoughts on that part of the ecosystem. [00:18:26] Joel tells us if there will be any sort of government grants going down the dependency tree and if he’s thought about that kind of money coming into the system and if there are benefits. [00:22:26] We hear what Joel thinks about the idea the maybe Flossbank was never going to work because there’s isn’t as much altruism in the world from companies and that he’s asking for something that’s impossible. [00:29:38] Joel talks about payment mechanisms and something cool they did with Flossbank, working with a company called Coil that uses Interledger. [00:32:13] Joel details his realistic and optimistic view on people wanting to invest in open source and getting money off it, and about diversity in open source. [00:38:50] Find out where you can follow Joel on the web. Quotes [00:05:04] “What we didn’t know and what we quickly found out is that a lot of companies want to have a relationship with the maintainer they are donating to.” [00:06:21] “Small companies, startups, are acutely aware of the open source they rely on.” [00:18:53] “People just take it for granted and they say, “Well, why should I fund it if the next person isn’t funding it?” [00:22:48] “There’s a ginormous rarely spoken difference between an open source author and an open source maintainer. An author chooses to put that license up. An author has given no promise to working on this, to securing it toward making sure that other companies get what they want, bug fixes, future maintenance, making sure their dependencies, no guarantees.” [00:24:00] “Open source maintainers are what I’m advocating to get paid and open source maintainers are the ones who are keeping code up to date, making sure it’s secure, making sure the dependencies are up to date, making sure the dependencies are secure, those people are putting in work.” [00:28:09] “Maintainership is work. It’s a triage of bugs, a triage of feature requests, it’s actual improvements to a package, it’s a long-term commitment, it’s a dramatically different persona and role than author.” [00:32:26] “You should be giving to your entire open source dependency tree because you don’t know what you depend on, or you don’t know what maintainer needs that money to do their work, to keep their package secured, to keep their package up to date until it breaks.” Spotlight [00:39:01] Joel’s spotlight is Nadia Eghbal’s book, Working in Public: The Making and Maintenance of Open Source Software. [00:40:01] Justin’s spotlight is the Open Technology Fund. [00:40:19] Richard’s spotlight is the book, Sacred Economics: Money, Gift & Society in The Age of Transition by Charles Eisenstein. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] Richard Littauer Twitter Justin Dorfman Twitter Joel Wasserman Twitter Flossbank Sustain Podcast-Episode 58: Joel Wasserman on Flossbank and Sustainability Giving Back to Dependencies Feross-Introducing ‘funding’ experiment Working in Public: The Making and Maintenance of Open Source Software by Nadia Eghbal The Flossbank Attempt by Joel Wasserman Sustain Podcast-Episode 148-Ali Nehzat of thanks.dev and OSS Funding Sustain Podcast-Episode 152-Dudley Carr and Wes Carr on StackAid thanks.dev Stackaid Coil Interledger Foundation Open Technology Fund Sacred Economics: Money, Gift & Society in The Age of Transition by Charles Eisenstein Credits

Guest Paul Berschick Panelists Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Richard is very excited to have a repeat guest on today, and that is Paul Berschick. Paul is here to tell us a little bit about his conference, FOSS Backstage 2023, which is being held in Berlin, in-person and online, March 13-14. He gives us some important details about the event, from what’s happening this year, some exciting speakers that will be there, and where you can register and sign up ASAP. Download this episode to get all the details and we hope to see you there! [00:00:53] What’s happening at FOSS Backstage this year? [00:02:26] Paul tells us about some of the speakers that he’s excited about having. [00:03:37] There’s going to be podcasts rooms there and podcasts hosts, which of course Richard will be there. Will there be any more hosts joining in? [00:04:17] Find out how to register for FOSS Backstage, booking accommodations, traveling, and places to go online for more info. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] Richard Littauer Twitter Paul Berschick Twitter FOSS Backstage 2023 FOSS Backstage 2023 Twitter FOSS Backstage 2023 Mastodon Sustain Podcast-Episode 120: FOSS Backstage 2022 with Rich Bowen & Paul Berschick Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Paul Berschick.

Guest Yadira Sánchez Benítez Panelists Richard Littauer | Amanda Casari | Leslie Hawthorn Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today we have joining us, Yadira Sánchez Benítez, who’s been on this podcast before, and we decided to bring her back since there’s so much more we wanted to discuss with her. Yadira is a lecturer in Data Science in London at UAL. She’s also a creative technologist, examining the role technology plays in our everyday lives and ecosystems, engaging, and actively dismantling the tech-violent pipelines reinforcing hegemonic structures and reimagining and co-creating spaces where technologies and art are pluriversal and liberatory, which we’ll learn more about today. Also, Yadira tells us about her Fellowship with the Software Sustainability Institute, what open source means in community work, her work with other communities that have language barriers to get them more involved, and she talks about the importance of being aware of privileges we hold in different spaces. Download his episode now to learn more! [00:02:29] Yadira explains how she gets paid for what she does, how she got into that position, and her Fellowship with the Software Sustainability Institute. [00:05:36] We hear some examples of what hegemonic control of open source production is in the aspect of community work. Also, Yadira tells us a little bit about AlterMundi, based in Argentina, that’s doing amazing work in the area of open source from a different perspective. [00:09:45] We find out if there’s a way for people who want to learn more to get better engaged with what’s coming out in these communities across Central and South America. [00:13:04] Leslie saw Yadira’s really cool wearables and electronic art in her portfolio and wonders if she’ll see her at a future Chaos Communications Congress Conference to show them off, and she tells us more about her creative work. [00:19:31] Amanda wonders what Yadira’s experience has been working in statistical processes or data centered processes that are taken over by larger groups, and she shares her thoughts on how practitioners can work together to prevent this kind of weaponization. [00:24:26] Richard wonders how we can work with people who are in tech and don’t have roots to indigenous areas, and what can we do in tech to help heal those wounds and accept that he’s as legitimate a person as anyone else. [00:28:29] Yadira shares thoughts on how to easily help decolonize your open source projects or how to make it easier for people who don’t have the privilege. [00:34:59] Find out where you can follow Yadira and her work on the web. Quotes [00:06:31] “We rely a lot in documentation and platforms to propagate the work that we do. However, when you work with communities that may not have fast internet or access to these platforms, that doesn’t work.” [00:26:19] “We need to be more aware of the privileges we hold in different spaces and times.” [00:26:57] “How can I act in solidarity with people when I’m in a position of power or privilege?” [00:29:28] “It’s very important to ask the question – open source for whom and for what?” Spotlight [00:36:46] Amanda’s spotlight is an essay, Apache Appropriation by Natives in Tech. [00:37:13] Leslie’s spotlight is the Outreachy program. [00:37:41] Richard’s spotlights are the Middlebury Abenaki course and the Nulhegan Band of the Coosuk Abenaki Nation. [00:38:19] Yadira’s spotlight is a talk on YouTube: Indigenous Futures: A Conversation with Yásnaya Elena Aguilar Gil-Twenty Summers 2022. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] Richard Littauer Twitter Amanda Casari Twitter Leslie Hawthorn Twitter Yadira Sánchez Benítez Twitter Yadira Sánchez Benítez LinkedIn Yadira Sánchez Benítez Instagram Yadira Sánchez Benítez Website Sustain Podcast-Episode 121: FOSS Backstage 2022 with Cornelius Schumacher, Yadira Sánchez Benítez, & Thomas Fricke Software Sustainability Institute APC Association For Progressive Communication-AlterMundi Chaos Computer Club Milpa Three Sisters (agriculture) Apache Appropriation Outreachy Middlebury Language Schools-Abenaki Nulhegan Band of the Coosuk Abenaki Nation Indigenous Futures: A Conversation with Yásnaya Elena Aguilar Gil-Twenty Summers 2022 (YouTube) Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Yadira Sánchez Benítez.

Guest Clare Dillon Panelists Richard Littauer | Leslie Hawthorn | Justin Dorfman Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we are excited to have joining us Clare Dillon, who’s the Executive Director of InnerSource Commons and works with the OSPO++ Network to support the establishment of University and Government Open Source Program Offices globally. In 2021, she Co-founded Open Ireland Network, which is a community of people talking about open source in Ireland. Our discussions today take us through how Clare got into open source and involved with InnerSource Commons, their relationship with the TODO Group, and the importance of the Japanese community in the InnerSource Commons. Also, since Clare Co-founded the Open Ireland Network, she fills us in on what it is, and gives an overview of the research and her findings from a report that was produced with the Irish government on, “Open Source and InnerSource Skills in Ireland: A Call for Action.” There is much more, so download this episode now! [00:02:07] Clare shares her background story of how she got into open source, how she joined an Irish company called Nearform, and meeting Danese Cooper, who introduced her to open source and the concept of InnerSource. [00:04:48] We hear how Clare got involved with InnerSource Commons with Danese Cooper. [00:06:47] When talking about InnerSource Commons, Clare goes in depth on how many people are active members, separate members, and since it’s a 501(c)(3), how big the budget is. She also explains how InnerSource is more about the methods and practices. [00:11:31] Leslie wonders if Clare has found in her experience that organizations that come to InnerSource who may not have any experience with open source are more disposed to community engagement or doing co-development outside of the firewall after they get that experience with InnerSource. [00:16:11] Clare tells us her thoughts about the long-term implications for the health of the open source ecosystem. [00:19:11] On the InnerSource Commons website there is English and Japanese, and we find out how active it is for the people who speak Japanese into InnerSource. [00:21:01] We hear about the InnerSource Commons relationship to the TODO Group and Anna Jiménez, who’s a community participant at InnerSource Commons as well. [00:22:34] Since Clare is the Co-founder of Open Ireland Network, she tells us what it is and gives an overview of the research and her findings from a skills report that was just produced with the Irish government. [00:28:07] We learn is there’s any intent to support the skills agenda in Ireland with more open source work, and if the Irish government plans for economic development in Ireland if that’s something that the Open Ireland Network is encouraging. [00:31:47] Clare shares some thoughts on the long-term implications of nationalistic approaches towards open source markets. [00:36:31] Find out where you can read the report and follow Clare on the web. Quotes [00:09:54] “Many of the original founders of InnerSource Commons were motivated by the idea of creating a whole new set of people who were able and willing to collaborate in the open source community so that they had that experience within their jobs, and therefore would be more likely and able to contribute either within their jobs or in their own private time to the open source community.” [00:26:54] “What was really fascinating to me was there was almost equal emphasis in the folks that responded to the survey about the non-technical skills. So where are the people in sales and marketing who understand this ecosystem? Where are the people in legal professions who understand the legal agreements necessary?” [00:29:33] “One of the most interesting areas that folks are now beginning to be aware of is that it’s not just the technology that gives you a leapfrog in, but also market access.” [00:29:54] “When I was talking to some of the industry development agencies in Ireland, the idea that there are industry vertical foundations focusing on innovation in particular areas were a huge interest to them.” [00:34:32] “If you’re enabling people to do open source in any nation, it enables collaboration across nations.” Spotlight [00:37:43] Justin’s spotlight is Ghost. [00:37:57] Leslie’s spotlight is to go check out the Digital Public Goods Charter that’s been published. [00:38:38] Richard’s spotlight is the National Portrait Gallery in Dublin. [00:39:06] Clare’s spotlight is Sue Borchardt, who’s a research artist and her amazing animation series she created on Cultural Evolution. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse Richard Littauer Twitter Leslie Hawthorn Twitter Justin Dorfman Twitter Clare Dillon LinkedIn InnerSource Commons NearForm Sustain podcast-Episode 54: Danese Cooper on the History of Open Source, InnerSource, and What’s Next Sustain Podcast-Episode 132: Ana Jiménez Santamaria on OSPOs

Guest Kailash Nadh Panelists Richard Littauer | Justin Dorfman Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We’re super excited to have as our guest today, Kailash Nadh. In 2020, he co-founded the FOSS United Foundation, a non-profit organization that supports the FOSS ecosystem in India, where he serves as director. He also has been the CTO of Zerodha, India’s largest stock broking firm for the last decade. Today, our conversations with Kailash will take through the FOSS program at Zerodha, and he’ll explain how they’ve grown to be one of the largest financial tech companies in India. He’ll take us through the journey of starting the FOSS Foundation, Zerodha’s funding for FOSS, and Kailash explains why people getting interested in open source is such a huge valuable concept and philosophy. Download this episode now to learn more! [00:02:20] Kailash tells us about the FOSS program at Zerodha and being a CTO. [00:06:46] There’s a FOSS Pledge on the FOSS United website and Kailash explains who it’s for and if anyone can sign it. [00:08:04] We learn about Zerodha’s yearly budget to the FOSS Foundation. [00:10:36] A question comes up if there are any documents or resources Kailash has in place to help ensure that their interests at Zerodha don’t erode away the native interests of any open source project. [00:13:04] Kailash tells us about paperd.ink. [00:15:04] Justin is curious to know if every part of the product is open source or if there’s some type of proprietary in there and what their focus is for the funds. [00:16:01] Dwayne O’Brien’s name comes up with the FOSS Contributor Fund, and if Kailash has ever talked to him. [00:17:32] Since it’s hard to find people to fund right now, Richard wonders what the intake process is for Kailash to get new contributors and maintainers. [00:18:26] Does Zerodha have Community Managers or social media people to help out the foundation? [00:20:27] We hear about the different conferences in India. [00:23:58] Kailash explains what the people were interested in hearing about at the FOSS focused events and how enticing it is for people to go to them. [00:28:41] We hear Kailash’s views on what he thinks about people getting interested in open source, and he tells us about the social development sector. [00:34:23] A questions comes up if there are any resources people could reach out to if they are in the NGO sector, or social sector. where they can learn what FOSS tools are best for them. [00:36:15] Find out where you can follow Kailash and his work online. Quotes [00:04:00] “We have close to zero SaaS subscriptions even as a really large enterprise.” [00:04:20] “FOSS really is why Zerodha exists today in the form it does.” [00:04:31] “We’ve grown to be one of the largest financial tech companies in India all on the back of FOSS.” [00:06:32] “Building everything community first, first principles, is really key.” [00:08:50] “At Zerodha, we’ve set aside one million dollars a year minimum to fund FOSS.” [00:20:29] “The conference a few months ago was IndiaFOSS, then a conference that happened in Kochi they named KochiFOSS, then DelhiFOSS, and there’s an upcoming one MumbaiFOSS, which has a nice ring to it. This evolved organically with people in Kochi because they really wanted to call it KochiFOSS to identify with the city.” [00:32:50] “FOSS is the answer to the massive systematic risk that is the lack of technical capacity in the most dire of needs.” Spotlight [00:37:13] Justin’s spotlight is a project he’s been working on with his co-worker Camden called, conc: better structured concurrency for go. [00:38:04] Richard’s spotlight is Ben Acker. [00:39:06] Kailash’s spotlight is Matt’s FormMail and Planet Source Code. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] Richard Littauer Twitter Justin Dorfman Twitter Kailash Nadh LinkedIn Kailash Nadh Website FOSS United FOSS Pledge Zerodha paperd.ink IndiaFOSS KochiFOSS DelhiFOSS conc-GitHub Ben Acker GitHub Matts Script Archive-FormMail Planet Source Code Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Kailash Nadh.

Guest Dudley Carr | Wes Carr Panelists Richard Littauer | Justin Dorfman Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. On this episode, we have two guests joining us. Today, we’ll be talking with Dudley Carr and Wes Carr, who are brothers and Founders of StackAid, which is a monthly subscription you can use to automatically fund all of your dependencies. We’ll be discussing all things StackAid, learn more about Wes and Dudley’s backgrounds, some long-term goals they have, and exciting things on the horizon for StackAid. Go ahead and download this episode now to learn more! [00:02:43] Wes tells us what StackAid is and how it’s different. Also, he explains why they chose to only fund first and second order. [00:05:44] Since StackAid’s goal is to help developers get money for their careers, we find out how many users are using the platform, how many maintainers, and their corporate sponsor. [00:06:58] In 2006, their start-up got acquired, so we hear about that start-up. [00:09:17] Dudley worked at Google and then switched to Moz and started working on Node.js stuff, and he explains when he made the decision to start tackling dependency payments, helping maintainers, and how they’re self-funding the work. [00:13:41] We’ll find about Sentry being the only corporate sponsor currently for StackAid and why the most important base they can rely on is individual developers. [00:19:14] Richard wonders what Wes and Dudley are going to do to convince developers to donate more of their money besides putting out content and they explain what their focus is right now. [00:22:23] A question comes up if Wes or Dudley have looked into the minimum viable income that they think has an effect on a project’s health. [00:24:49] We hear what Wes and Dudley are doing to help diversify the developer stack and how they allocate their funds. [00:28:59] Dudley explains the reasons why they have zero guides to for people to tell them how they should spend their money in order to make the project more sustainable. [00:31:44] Wes shares the hardest part about building StackAid so far, and some long- term goals and exciting things coming up for StackAid. [00:38:08] Find out where you can follow along with Wes and Dudley online. Quotes [00:08:13] “We attended a peer-to-peer conference back in the day where Shawn Fanning was attending this kind of stuff, and then we bumped into some Google people.” [00:09:30] “Wes and I have been close to open source for a very long time. We’ve consumed it since the late nineties and have benefited from it tremendously.” [00:10:36] “We wanted to make a concrete contribution back into the open source community in some form.” [00:17:16] “I think evangelism is super important.” [00:17:50] “It’s like saying I’m not going to recycle, but I expect the company that I work for to recycle.” [00:23:50] “There’s an amount of space that we need to be able to buy people and give them that freedom and that cushion so that they can think of new things or reinvest it in things that they’ve done.” Spotlight [00:38:54] Justin’s spotlight is asdf. [00:39:40] Richard’s spotlight is Donald Hall’s and his essay, The Third Thing: Poet Donald Hall on the Secret to Lasting Love (The Marginalian). [00:40:16] Dudley’s spotlight is the NSQ project. [00:40:52] Wes’s spotlight is Benthos. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] Richard Littauer Twitter Justin Dorfman Twitter Dudley Carr LinkedIn Dudley Carr Twitter Wes Carr LinkedIn Wes Carr Twitter StackAid Twitter StackAid-Mastodon Social StackAid Sustain Podcast-Episode 148: Ali Nehzat of thanks.dev and OSS Funding Sustain Podcast-Episode 96: Chad Whitacre and how Sentry is giving $150k to their OSS Dependencies Sustain Podcast-Episode 149: Naytri Sramek on the GitHub Accelerator and M12 GitHub Fund asdf The Third Thing: Poet Donald Hall on the Secret to Lasting Love (The Marginalian) NSQ Benthos Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guests: Dudley Carr and Wes Carr.

Panelists Richard Littauer | Pia Mancini | Ben Nickolls Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. This is a short episode today because we are headed to London in early February for a Sustain event. Why are we going to London? Well, it’s the State of Open Con 2023, February 7-8, an event that is all things open source, including legal, governance, technology itself, hardware, and data, put on mainly by Amanda Brock and Open UK, and funded by IEEE SA and many other sponsors. You’ll find out all the details on this event, how to get tickets, and the two-day session Sustain is having that they would love for you to join in on. Download this episode now to learn more! [00:00:44] Ben gives all the details on what’s going on in London with State of Open Con 2023. [00:02:29] Find out how you can get your hands on some tickets to the event, and if you need any financial assistance, they are offering it, but it is limited. [00:04:13] Pia fills us in on why she’s going to this event and the two-day sessions they are having for Sustain about different topics, and they would love for everyone to join them. [00:05:26] Since FOSDEM 2023 is happening February 4-5 in Brussels, Ben points out there will probably be a lot of people traveling from that event to this one by train, so try to make plans for a rest day before this event kicks off. [00:06:40] If you’re going to FOSDEM, get in touch with Justin Dorfman or Abigail Mayes because they’re putting on an awesome event there. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] Richard Littauer Twitter Pia Mancini Twitter Ben Nickolls Twitter State of Open Con 2023 Sustain Podcast- 2 Episodes with guest Amanda Brock Sustain Podcast-Episode 98: Silona Bonewald and her long-term vision for IEEE and open source FOSDEM 2023 Justin Dorfman Twitter Abigail Cabunoc Mayes Twitter Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound

Guest Dustin Ingram Panelists Richard Littauer | Justin Dorfman Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Joining us today is Dustin Ingram, who’s a Staff Software Engineer on Google’s Open Source Security Team, where he works on improving the security of open source software that Google and the rest of the world relies on. He’s also the director of the Python Software Foundation and maintainer of the Python Package Index. Today, we’ll learn about the Open Source Security Team at Google, what they do, the bill they’ve contributed to for Securing Open Source Software Act of 2022, a rewards program they have to pay maintainers called SOS rewards, and Google’s role in the Sigstore project. Also, Dustin talks about the Python Package Index, he shares his opinion on the difference between security and sustainability, and what he’s most excited about with work going on in the next year or two. Download this episode now to find out more! [00:01:10] Dustin fills us in on the Open Source Security Team at Google, what they do there, how they prioritize which packages to work on, and which security bugs to work on. [00:03:25] We hear about the team at Google working on the bill 4913 Securing Open Source Software Act of 2022. [00:04:18] Justin brings up Dan Lorenc and Sigstore, and we learn Google’s role in this project and making sure it’s adopted more heavily in the supply chain. [00:06:05] Dustin explains the model on how Google is working to make sure these projects stick together, and he tells us how an open source maintainer can make their code more reliable by going to Sigstore and other sites to talk to people. [00:09:26] How does Google prioritize and choose which projects are the most important and where they’re going to dedicate developer time to do that work? [00:11:02] Dustin works on the Python Package Index, and he explains what it is, and with the PSF, how many directors they have, and how much he interfaces with other people there. [00:12:17] We hear how Dustin dealt with the fallout from the backlash that happened during the mandatory multifactor authentication for the critical projects. [00:16:52] When it comes to security, Richard wonders if Dustin has put a lot of thought into different grades of where it exists and who it’s for, as well as if there’s a ten to fifty year plan for the maintainers who move on to do other things and people are not going to be developing at all. [00:19:13] Are there plans around educations for maintainers and communities on how to onboard new maintainers and how to increase security without increasing load time for the maintainers working on their projects? [00:20:21] We hear what the Securing Open Source Software Act is all about. [00:22:21] Now that open source is the dominant distribution, Dustin shares his thoughts on if open source will stop working and explains the real strength of open source. [00:24:09] Richard brings up the US government trying to secure their supply chain, working with future maintainers, code packages, working with foundations to figure out how we secure the ecosystem at a large, and wonders if Dustin sees a way for the government to try and secure open source and not regulate it, but try to figure how to manage it without the help of foundations or package managers. [00:26:56] Dustin shares his opinion on the difference between security and sustainability and what he thinks about that and what he’s most excited about with work going on in the next year or two. [00:30:28] Find out where you can follow Dustin and his work on the web. Quotes [00:03:34] “After Log4j, the government got really spooked because they really didn’t know what software they were consuming, and President Biden did an executive order on securing a nation’s cybersecurity, which was about setting a policy for how the government should consume open source.” [00:08:11] “We also do some other things to make that a little easier for open source maintainers to adopt these technologies.” [00:08:17] “One thing we have is a rewards program called SOS.dev, and that’s a way that maintainers can get paid for doing what we feel is relevant security work.” [00:21:01] “The US government consumes a lot of open source software. They have a dependency on a lot more than most large companies that you can think of.” [00:21:11] “The answer to Log4j is not to stop using open source, it’s to get better practices around determining what you have and just do industry best practices for finding and fixing vulnerabilities.” Spotlight [00:31:17] Justin’s spotlight is some awesome software called Rewind.ai. [00:32:32] Richard’s spotlight is Geoff Huntley. [00:33:36] Dustin’s spotlight is the Mozilla Open Source Support Program. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] Richard Littauer Twitter Justin Dorfman Twitter Dustin Ingram Twitter Dustin Ingram LinkedIn Dustin Ingram Website Open Sou

Guest Naytri Sramek Panelists Richard Littauer | Justin Dorfman Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we’re super excited to have joining us as our guest, Naytri Sramek, who’s the Senior Director of Strategy at GitHub. Have you heard of the GitHub Accelerator and M12 GitHub Fund? Well, this is a great day to be joining us because Naytri is here to talk about these programs that they’ve been launching to help support and sustain OSS over the long haul. Naytri shares GitHub’s journey which began with the GitHub Sponsors launch in 2019, bringing on enterprise sponsors, and how it led into launching the GitHub Accelerator program and the M12 GitHub Fund. Go ahead and download this episode now to learn more. [00:01:23] Naytri reveals the two things they’ve been launching which are the GitHub Accelerator and the M12 GitHub Fund. She also tells us about bringing on enterprise sponsors since they’ve benefited from open source. [00:06:25] Peter Thomas, who worked at Intuit and is creator of Karate Labs, is brought up and Justin wonders if he’s involved in this venture or if there are others. [00:09:37] A question comes up regarding if the growth of the projects has been tracked with the money that GitHub has given to developers, if they’ve been able to quit their jobs since the money was given to them, and if those projects have improved. [00:15:35] We hear the focus of the GitHub sponsors, the Accelerator, and the M12 Fund. [00:19:57] Justin brings up the difficult issue of how to deal with developers that build these critical pieces of software, but they don’t want to deal with the responsibility and wonders how Naytri and her team deal with this issue. [00:23:18] There’s a 10-week course for the accelerator program and we hear how it works, and if it will be available to everyone in the future on GitHub. [00:29:28] Naytri explains how the communities are being funded. [00:32:47] A point is brought up about how long can these strategies and programs live on so maintainers and open source developers can make a good living, and Naytri goes in depth about the need for more sources of funding and funding models. [00:36:34] Find out where you can learn more about the GitHub Accelerator and the M12 Fund. Quotes [00:17:40] “The M12 GitHub Fund is all about how we do invest in the tools that are built on GitHub’s platform.” [00:24:33] “I want 20 people making $200,000 a year.” [00:24:58] “The GitHub Accelerator course itself will be open source.” [00:28:08] “As we’ve expanded the program into more countries, we’ve doubled the number of countries that sponsors cover right now.” [00:30:10] “Commits aren’t universal. You shouldn’t just be rewarded for the code.” [00:33:07] “The way we’re thinking about the accelerator and the fund is we need so many more sources of funding and funding models to be able to support open source creators as well as communities.” Spotlight [00:37:44] Justin’s spotlight is Jessica Lord, who’s the GitHub Sponsors Product Lead. [00:38:14] Richard’s spotlight is Bill Watterson, author of Calvin and Hobbes. [00:38:23] Naytri’s spotlight is Mike Perham and a 10 year anniversary post he wrote to Sidekiq. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] Richard Littauer Twitter Justin Dorfman Twitter Naytri Sramek LinkedIn [email protected] [email protected] GitHub Accelerator GitHub Blog- An open source economy-built by developers, for developers by Naytri Sramek Sustain Podcast-Episode 56: Dominic Tarr on Coding What You Want, Living on A Boat, and the Early Days of Node.js Karate Labs Hopscotch Justin Dorfman Tweet: The hard decisions popular open source project maintainers need to make…daily. Jessica Lord-GitHub Bill Watterson-Wikipedia Happy 10th Birthday, Sidekiq! -by Mike Perham Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Naytri Sramek.

Guest Ali Nehzat Panelists Richard Littauer | Justin Dorfman Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Get ready for an exciting guest today as we welcome, Ali Nehzat, who’s a Software Engineer with a preference for embedded systems and Founder of thanks.dev. Ali’s been around for a while, and he realized that the open source ecosystem needs some help, and his focus is specifically on the OSS funding problem. Today, we’ll learn more about Ali’s story of why he started thanks.dev, what motivated him, people that inspired him through his journey, and he reveals his mission for OSS developers. But it doesn’t stop there! Ali dives into different aspects he’s experimenting for funding, he tells us how payouts are supported so developers get paid, and how he’s planning on making this more sustainable. Download this episode now to find out more! [00:02:53] We find out the difference between thanks.dev and the other platforms, and Ali tells us his story about being motivated by Brian Carlson from the Node.js community, who’s behind node-postgres. [00:08:13] Ali talks about thanks.dev’s approach with helping to convince people to give money to open source. [00:11:20] We hear the tools that thanks.dev offers to its engineers to help them figure out how to sell giving back to open source. [00:14:07] After having conversations with OSPO companies, Ali explains how everything is a learning experience currently with thanks.dev, and he states the reason for thanks.dev not getting involved with code of conduct right now and what the mission is. [00:17:51] Licensing landscape is brought up by Ali and the conversations happening around it. [00:20:51] Ali fills us in on the insightful conversations he had with Joel Wasserman who really helped him in his journey, as well as other people, with thanks.dev, as well as some ideas to solve the funding with open source and make sure thanks.dev is sustainable going forward. [00:23:05] As far as projects go, Ali tells us who’s he’s worked with to get more funding. [00:26:06] Justin wonders if there’s any papers Ali’s read dealing with the complexities and edge cases, he explains how he would like to publish blog posts he wrote, and the testing and the experiments he’s been doing, and the impact Duane O’Brien from Indeed has made. [00:29:28] Richard brings up payment payouts and wonders how Ali is making sure the money actually gets to the developers and that helps the sustainability of those projects. [00:33:50] Ali is currently not getting a salary for this, but he tells us how fundraising through family and friends helped him, and how he’s planning to make this sustainable for him. [00:35:37] Find out where you can follow Ali on the web. Quotes [00:03:20] “Currently, thanks.dev is focusing on an experiment if you make it super easy for companies to donate to their dependency trees, what would be the outcome of that?” [00:04:41] “When I got interested in the funding space and in the challenges that open source maintainers face, it was actually all motivated by Brian Carlson in the Node.js community, who’s the person behind node-postgres.” [00:06:35] “It’s not just funding, it’s project management and it’s community management. There’s a whole array of other problems that can be attacked.” [00:09:12] “When I hit that barrier, the approach I took was to add a line item to my invoices for the OSS ecosystem.” [00:22:02] “The biggest learning is that to solve the funding problem in open source, you have to look at it from the perspective of the marketplace.” [00:23:50] “Then there’s a whole cohort of donors on GitHub and Open Collective that are engineering managers that are going to their own organizations and getting donations done and figuring out the motivations and actions behind these people.” [00:26:52] “The input that Duane O'Brien has had on thanks.dev has made such a huge impact.” Spotlight [00:37:32] Justin’s spotlight is CodeMirror. [00:38:19] Richard’s spotlight is Atom. [00:39:04] Ali’s spotlight is Brian Carlson. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] Richard Littauer Twitter Justin Dorfman Twitter Ali Nehzat LinkedIn Ali Nehzat Twitter thanks.dev Twitter [email protected] thanks.dev Sustain Podcast-Episode 58: Joel Wasserman on Flossbank and Sustainably Giving Back to Dependencies Sustain Podcast-Episode 96: Chad Whitacre and how Sentry is giving $150 to their OSS Dependencies Sustain Podcast- 2 episodes featuring guest, Duane O’Brien Sustain Podcast-2 episodes featuring guest, Nicholas Zakas CodeMirror Atom Brian Carlson-GitHub node-postgres Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Ali Nehzat.

Guest Jan Ainali Panelists Richard Littauer | Justin Dorfman Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. On this episode, we have an amazing guest, Jan Ainali, who’s a steward at the Foundation for Public Code, where they develop tools, processes, and collecting best practices for community building. Earlier, he ran a consultancy called Open by Default and he was swept into the ‘open movement’ through Wikipedia editing and leading him to cofound the Swedish Wikimedia chapter and become chairman and later, CEO. Today, we’ll learn all the details about the Foundation for Public Code, the process of becoming a member, what sets them apart from others, and their Standard for Public Code that is for anyone who wants to prepare their code to be collaborated on. Also, Jan shares what’s he looking forward to in the next few months about the standard and the Foundation for Public Code. Download this episode now to learn much more! [00:02:02] Jan tells us about the Foundation for Public Code, as well as how many member organizations it has. [00:03:43] With only one member currently, we find out if Jan is trying to get others on to work with the foundation, he explains the process of becoming of member with them, and the team sizes that are directly working with them. [00:07:02] We learn what sets apart the Foundation for Public Code from the other trans-provincial and trans-governmental organizations that are doing the work of InnerSource Commons but with politics. He also goes into the policies that have gone into code that he’s worked on. [00:09:46] Wikimedia and Wikipedia have chapters, and Jan reveals how big his was, how many other chapters there are in the world, and the difference between them. [00:11:15] Find out who Sverker Johansson is and what he did. [00:13:12] Jan tells us more about the Standard for Public Code, what it is, how it applies, who wrote it, and we hear the 16 criteria for it. [00:18:13] Jan explains the “must be in plain English” requirement and what the global efforts are for the Foundation for Public Code. [00:20:13] We learn how Jan is making it beneficial for everyone to join in a way that helps them out as being super awesome and grow the network that way. [00:21:02] Has Jan gotten any pushback from developers in other places? [00:22:24] Jan tells us businesses he’s working with to help push this initiative forward. [00:24:38] We hear if there’s a sign on process for getting people to use this standard, and Jan talks about the accreditation process. [00:29:14] Richard asks Jan if he knows of other standards that are already in this space and what sets his apart from the others. [00:30:32] Jan explains their level of standards, as well as what he’s most looking forward to in the next few months about the standard and the foundation. [00:32:54] Find out where you can follow Jan on the web. Quotes [00:03:19] “We really think if you collaborate with everyone, that’s better than to collaborate with just a few." [00:07:22] “We only work with code bases with the public purpose where someone tries to put a policy into code. That’s where we’re a little bit narrower than others.” Spotlight [00:34:04] Justin’s spotlight is WeasyPrint. It’s open source and turns simple HTML pages into gorgeous PDF’s and open source. [00:34:39] Richard’s spotlight is Sverker Johansson. [00:35:10] Jan’s spotlight is Denny Vrandečić, first project manager at Wikidata, and right now working on Abstract Wikipedia. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] Richard Littauer Twitter Justin Dorfman Twitter Jan Ainali Twitter Jan Ainali Website Foundation for Public Code Standard for Public Code WeasyPrint Standard for Public Code (Book) Sverker Johansson-Wikipedia The Dawn of Language by Sverker Johansson xkcd-Standards Wikidata Abstract Wikipedia Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Jan Ainali.

Guest Anjana Vakil Panelists Richard Littauer | Justin Dorfman Show Notes On today’s episode, Richard and Justin have joining them as their guest, Anjana Vakil, who’s a Freelance Developer, Software Engineer, and Developer Advocate doing some amazing stuff in the world. Anjana takes us through her journey into tech that started out at the Recurse Center, which led her to Outreachy, the internship she did as a Software Engineer at Mozilla, which was pivotal in shaping her career, and how diversity scholarships she received helped her as well. She explains why sharing what she learned as an educator is so important to people who are trying to learn new skills, and we hear some of the great benefits of why people should sponsor an Outreachy project. Download this episode to learn more! [00:02:37] Anjana fills us in on the Recurse Center and Outreachy. [00:06:11] We learn what Anjana studied at the Recurse Center when she was there. [00:09:25] We hear if licensing ever came up for Anjana as something she was interested in along her journey, and how she interfaced with open source code as she started learning about all these things you could do with computer languages. [00:14:02] Richard wonders if Anjana thinks support is necessary in order to get involved in open source and keep the fire alive of learning, and she tells us how she feels about equity in open source, getting people into it, and how to make it happen. [00:21:12] Anjana shares tips for people who are in open source projects that want to help out and why it’s so important to help people. [00:27:00] We learn how having the internship with Mozilla was so pivotal in shaping Anjana’s career. [00:31:42] Anjana shares how working at Mozilla was a formative time in her tech career and how sharing what she learned with other people was such a great accountability moment. She also talks about the benefits of sponsoring an Outreachy project. [00:40:45] Find out where you can follow Anjana online. Quotes [00:17:31] “Programs like Outreachy and Recurse Center show a way to level the playing field and make it more accessible for those who have constraints on their time or finances.” [00:19:00] “Another great source of help, that I got along the way, was diversity scholarships to attend conferences in the tech space.” [00:34:55] “It really takes so many different hats to successfully run a sustainable, large open source project.” [00:39:12] “Coding is a human interaction.” Spotlight [00:42:10] Justin’s spotlight is Warp. [00:42:46] Richard’s spotlight is Irvin Hwang. [00:43:19] Anjana’s spotlight is Outreachy. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] Richard Littauer Twitter Justin Dorfman Twitter Anjana Vakil Twitter Anjana Vakil GitHub Anjana Vakil YouTube Recurse Center Outreachy Bang bang con Sustain Podcast-Episode 78: Stormy Peters: Sustaining FLOSS at Microsoft’s Open Source Programs Office (“Mentions Outreachy”) Sustain Podcast-Episode 72: Eriol Fox on Open Source Design and Sustain (“Mentions Outreachy”) Warp Irvin Hwang Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Anjana Vakil.

Guest Ashley Williams Panelists Richard Littauer | Justin Dorfman Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We are super excited to have Ashley Williams joining us. Ashley is the Founder and CEO of Axo. She is also a former member of the Rust Core Team, founder of the Rust Foundation, and served as its first Executive Director. She was the leader of the Node.js Community Committee and founded the NodeTogether educational initiative. Today, Ashley shares her background with us from working at NPM, joining Mozilla, building the Rust Foundation, and she fills us in on Axo, which she explains is the tool company for tool companies. She also has some suggestions on how open source projects can get money to become successful in the long term. Go ahead and download this episode now to learn more! [00:01:41] Ashley explains what Axo does. [00:04:07] When Ashley moved from Node to Rust, she tells us what she took to the community there from the lessons she learned from Node, and how she wanted to build great communities in Rust. [00:09:35] We learn more about the process of building the Rust Foundation and why building it was necessary. [00:15:02] Justin wonders what it was that made the organizations calm again and why did they stick with Rust. [00:17:07] Ashley explains what the difference is for her and why one is better for open source software sustainability. [00:21:24] How do open source projects position themselves in the future to continue to have stake in their own governance and their own sustainability and where does Ashley think they should be investing their time? [00:23:28] We hear some tips from Ashley about the best way for a project to have a conversation with each other about setting goals and intentions for their project in a way that isn’t alienating. [00:30:02] Ashley shares a little of her background with us after leaving NPM, joining Mozilla, and she tells us about a tool she built called, wasm-pack. [00:33:35] We find out where can you learn about Axo, get involved, and if it’s open source. [00:35:15] Ashley shares some tips on what open source projects can do to get money to help themselves go forward and become financially viable in the long term. [00:40:11] Find out where you can follow Ashley on the web. Quotes [00:05:57] “I got super burned out of community work and Node and everyone kept throwing it in my face that I wasn’t technical. If I wasn’t so busy doing all this other stuff maybe I would commit some code.” [00:06:59] “When you build a community in reaction to something, when you stop reacting to that thing it’s hard to figure out what you do next and how you grow it.” [00:10:18] “It’s way worse to have a foundation too early than having a foundation too late.” [00:17:49] “I love to say ergonomics is eighty percent familiarity, and it appears to be true for organizations that are doing fundraising,” [00:18:31] “The goal of that Linux Foundation generation was to get corporations to use open source, which in a way is the opposite of making it sustainable because it adds an incredible burden.” [00:20:20] “I don’t think charity is the same as sustainability.” [00:24:23] “Try and get people to itch the same way.” [00:24:42] “Having really strong communication brand and marketing helps drive that shared collective vision.” [00:24:50] “I think Rust had really fantastic marketing for a really long time and that helped drive the community to have as much of a shared vision as is possible in a group of software engineers.” [00:29:00] “I don’t know if open source wants to be sustained.” [00:32:42] “Pay attention to the types of open source maintainers that are getting hired versus the ones that aren’t, because there are some patterns that no one should be proud of.” [00:35:57] “Get a company that loves your project and then get them to hire you to work on it.” [00:39:49] “The era of open source we’re in, there’s need for more safeguards.” Spotlight [00:41:01] Justin’s spotlight is axii.axo.dev. [00:41:34] Richard’s spotlight is an animated Chobani yogurt commercial. [00:42:25] Ashley’s spotlight is the Embroidery Trouble Shooting Guide. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] Richard Littauer Twitter Justin Dorfman Twitter Ashley Williams Twitter Ashley Williams LinkedIn Axo Axo Twitter Sustain Podcast-Episode 135: Tracy Hinds on Node.js’s CommComm and PMs in Open Source Sustain Podcast-Episodes featuring guest Ewa Jodlowska Sustain Podcast-Episode featuring guest Deb Nicholson Sustain Podcast-Episode featuring guest Karen Sandler Sustain Podcast-Episode 56-Dominic Tarr on Coding What You Want, Living On A Boat, and the Early Days of Node.js Sustain Open Source Design Podcast Sustain Podcast-Episodes featuring guest Mike McQuaid axii.axo Eat today, feed tomorrow-Chobani commercial (YouTube) Embroidery Trouble Shooting Guide Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. B

Guest Simon Minton Panelists Richard Littauer | Justin Dorfman Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Richard and Justin are super excited to have as their guest today, Simon Minton, who’s the CEO of Ringer, which we’ll hear all about. Simon tells us how Ringer is different by the ways they provide for their maintainers, how they give back to projects, handle consultancy with projects, and he explains their recruitment process. Simon shares his long-term plan for Ringer, and a new tool they are building to help the ecosystem in the long-term. Go ahead and download this episode now to hear more! [00:01:54] Simon tells us how Ringer was born, what it is, and how many people use it. [00:05:00] Find out how Ringer is different. [00:08:59] Besides a payment gateway, we hear about some other infrastructure and services Simon is providing for the maintainers. [00:12:01] How does Ringer make sure that the money doesn’t just flow to the people on the top of the projects, but also to the projects as a whole? [00:14:16] Richard wonders how Simon teaches the next generation to become the next generation of Ringer HQ/maintainers besides the 5%. [00:15:19] Richard brings up a concern around consulting and Simon explains how they handle this with larger and smaller projects. [00:17:32] We learn about some projects where Ringer will be their consultancy platform. [00:19:19] Ringer’s recruitment process is explained. [00:21:33] Justin thinks the Ringer site is really cool and Simon shares where the inspiration came from. [00:23:30] Richard wonders if Simon has a long-term plan, and as he scales up his team if services will be provided to the consultants., and he tells us about the educational services he offers. [00:30:58] Simon informs us about a tool they are building right now to help the ecosystem in the long-term. [00:33:20] Justin brings up thanks.dev and the founder, Ali Nehzat. [00:35:58] We learn the meaning of Ringer and where you can follow Simon online. Spotlight [00:37:04] Justin’s spotlight is NextAuth.js. [00:37:30] Richard’s spotlight is Wikiquote and the works of Seneca the Younger. [00:38:13] Simon’s spotlight is Spatie and Freek Van der Herten. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] Richard Littauer Twitter Justin Dorfman Twitter Simon Minton LinkedIn Simon Minton Twitter Ringer filament Sustain Podcast-Episode 142: Nicholas Zakas on Sponsoring Dependencies, All the Way Down Electron Ali Nehzat Twitter thanks.dev NextAuth.js Wikiquote-Seneca the Younger Spatie-GitHub Freek Van der Herten-GitHub Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Simon Minton.

Guest Amanda Brock Panelists Richard Littauer | Justin Dorfman | Ben Nickolls Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we have an amazing guest and she’s been on this podcast before. Joining us is Amanda Brock, who’s the CEO of OpenUK, which is an industry organization about the business of open technology. She’s also a Board Member, keynote speaker, and author, with a new book coming out soon called, Open Source Law, Policy and Practice, that we’ll hear all about today. We’ll also be learning more about OpenUK and the policy work they do, Amanda tells us about the All Things Open (ATO) tech conference where she’ll be launching her book with some incredible panelists, and we hear some goals from Amanda for an event she’ll be attending to create a broader engagement across UK government, where they’ll focus on security, technical issues, and security policy issues. Go ahead and download this episode now! [00:01:27] Amanda tells us about OpenUK, the difference between OpenUK and the Software Sustainability Institute (SSI), and the policy work OpenUK does. [00:04:37] We learn if OpenUk’s mission has changed since Brexit, now that the UK is more of an independent body as a national group and how that’s influenced how we think about tech in Britain. [00:07:13] Amanda tells us all about her book coming out called, Open Source Law, Policy and Practice, that includes several authors, and the launch of her book at ATO. [00:12:06] One of the chapters in Amanda’s book is on sustainability and open source and since it’s relevant to this podcast Amanda explains more about this chapter. [00:13:52] Amanda explains some goals they have for the meeting that’s happening on the17th of October called, “Open Source Software: Infrastructure Curation and Security, Thought Leadership Event.” [00:18:28] Ben asks Amanda if she thinks anything is going to happen within the government from now until February and what she thinks of the government’s response in the US with the executive order around expenditure on open source in government departments and guidance around a software bill of materials and better understanding of what components are in software that’s using governments. [00:22:00] Richard wonders if there’s been a conversation about what happens if one part of the dependency stack doesn’t want to be included or bother with having a SBOM, dealing with the government, and refuses to do any work. [00:35:10] We hear a mad insurance scheme Amanda had a long time ago that’s she’s going to get some people to revisit. [00:37:02] Find out where to follow Amanda and OpenUK online. Quotes [00:17:13] “I think it’s really important that governments also see the level of engagement across our communities as strong, and that we are largely united at least body, that wants to see them understand how they do a much better job of curating open source software and ensuring that when they’re using it, they’re giving back both in terms of contribution and economic contribution.” [00:20:41] “In the US, the survey showed over 70% of organizations that are using SBOMs now.” [00:21:45] “You should not be taking on liability for the open source code. You should be taking on liability for the work you’re paid to do.” [00:24:02] “Coding to me is a freedom of speech.” [00:24:27] “My personal view is they’ll be public private enterprises or initiatives, and they will hold code that is sanitized or curated for usage in the public sector.” [00:24:38] “I think we’ll see governments wanting that and it’s not an OSPO, it’s a hybrid. It’s somewhere between a foundation and an OSPO.” [00:27:40] “Chainguard started creating their own Docker images with their own version of Nginx and Linux, and I think we’re going to see that trend continue.” [00:28:29] “What we don’t want is for governments to get everything from companies, because if they do, they’re going to end up back in a situation of vendor lock-in.” [00:35:58] “In the US at one time, you couldn’t buy insurance around open source because it was too unknown. I think there’s going to be a big space there where we can also manage some of this risk and some of the government money can go into that too and help protect the bigger picture.” Spotlight [00:37:58] Justin’s spotlight is opensauced.pizza founded by Brian Douglas. [00:38:30] Ben’s spotlight is Stellarium 1.0. [00:39:25] Richard’s spotlight is Collins Bird Guide and the app. [00:40:39] Amanda’s spotlight is Eddie Jaoude, a GitHub All-Star. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] Richard Littauer Twitter Justin Dorfman Twitter Ben Nickolls Twitter Amanda Brock-OpenUK Amanda Brock Twitter Amanda Brock LinkedIn OpenUK OpenUK Twitter OpenUK LinkedIn All Things Open Twitter All Things Open-2022 Sustain Podcast-Episode 49: What OpenUK does with Amanda Brock & Andrew Katz Open Source Law, Policy, and Practice by Amanda Brock Neil Chue

Guest Nicholas Zakas Panelists Richard Littauer | Justin Dorfman Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Our guest today is a returning guest that we’ve had on before. We are excited to have joining us, Nicholas Zakas, who’s one of the maintainers on ESLint, which is a tool that helps you find and fix problems in your JavaScript code. Today, we’ll learn all about ESLint, the maintainers, contributors, and how they get paid. Also, we’ll find out the success behind ESLint, and a post about sponsoring dependencies that Nicholas wrote on his blog. Go ahead and download this episode now to learn more! [00:02:23] Nicholas tells us all about ESLint, their maintainers that work on the project, and how many people have contributed to the project on GitHub. [00:07:29] Nicholas tells us how maintainers get paid as part of his governance strategy. [00:10:04] Justin asked about the fact that ESLint not only pays contributors, but also pays downstream dependencies. [00:12:04] Richard wonders where all the money comes from that gave ESLint this huge surplus, and Nicholas explains how they raised so much and what it is about ESLint that makes that possible. [00:16:10] We hear some reflections from Richard as he congratulates Nicholas and makes some important points about the success of ESLint. [00:20:19] Nicholas fills us in on the OpenJS Foundation Project. [00:23:57] Richard talks about a blog post Nicholas wrote on his blog about sponsoring dependencies, and Nicholas explains the difference between large charismatic projects and smaller projects and how he sees the role of large projects in funding the smaller ones. [00:31:41] We hear what ESLint did with sponsoring dependencies, and Nicholas tells us about some projects that they wanted to support financially, but turned them down. [00:38:06] Find out where you can follow Nicholas and ESLint online. Quotes [00:07:43] “Everybody on the team, the committers, reviewers, technical steering committee, gets paid an hourly rate for their contributions.” [00:07:53] “Contributions can be anything that contributes to the project, reviewing issues and pull requests, attending meetings, helping people on discord, helping people on GitHub discussions, and if people ever go to conferences or meetings representing the team, they can also charge for that.” [00:10:15] “We made a decision the beginning of last year that it was time to start supporting our dependencies.” [00:12:28] “I do think we are lucky in a lot of ways that we’ve had champions inside of companies who were working within their company to get ESLint’s support.” [00:13:13] “In the beginning, we were hesitant to start spending the money because we didn’t know how reliable that source of income would be, and we were worried we wouldn’t be able to pay a living wage.” [00:21:25] “Being in a foundation is one type of a reputational check mark that an open source project can get.” [00:26:15] “I think OpenSSL is a great example of [the funding problem]. It’s a foundational piece of internet infrastructure.” [00:28:31] “We went on backyourstack.com and started looking for the projects that we were depending on that had Open Collective pages and said, as a project, what is good for open source in general, is also good for ESLint.” [00:29:20] “Open source, in general, is this collective of projects that are built on top of projects that are built on top of projects that are built on top of projects, and we have no problem giving that recognition when we’re talking about what the project is built upon.” Spotlight [00:39:47] Justin’s spotlight is the new book, What if? 2 by Randall Munroe. [00:40:31] Richard’s spotlight is David Troupes, Buttercup Festival comic strips. [00:41:03] Nicholas’s spotlight is the book, WebAssembly: The Definitive Guide by Brian Sletten Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] Richard Littauer Twitter Justin Dorfman Twitter Nicholas Zakas Twitter Nicholas Zakas GitHub ESLint ESLint Twitter ESLint GitHub ESLint-Open Collective Sustain Podcast-Episode 101: Nicholas Zakas and ESLint Sponsoring dependencies: The next step in open source sustainability (Human Who Codes Blog) Sustain Podcast-Episode 117: Mike McQuaid of Homebrew on Sustainably Working on OSS Projects Sustain Podcast-Episode 126: GitHub Maintainer Month with Mike McQuaid of Homebrew and Nina Breznik of DatDot BackYourStack Securing Open Source Software Act of 2022 (Sustain) What if? 2 by Randall Munroe David Troupes-Buttercup Festival comic strips (Patreon) WebAssembly: The Definitive Guide by Brian Sletten Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Nicholas Zakas.

Guest Melissa Mendonça Panelists Richard Littauer | Amanda Casari Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we are so excited to have a wonderful guest, Melissa Mendonça, joining us. Melissa is a Senior Developer Experience Engineer at Quansight, where she focuses more on developer experience and contributor experience. Today, we’ll hear all about Quansight and the focus for Melissa’s role as a Developer Experience Engineer. Melissa tells us about a grant they are working on with CZI that focuses on NumPy, SciPy, Matplotlib, and pandas, she shares several ideas on what can be done to make people feel seen and heard, and we hear her thoughts on what the future of community management and community development looks like for people entering the role of these projects. Go ahead and download this episode now to hear more! [00:01:25] Melissa tells us her background and her role at Quansight. [00:03:41] When Melissa made the decision to switch from one role to another, Amanda asks if that was her plan or if she learned that the skills that she needed to get things done changed over time. [00:06:10] We find out what the focus is for Melissa’s role as a Developer Experience Engineer and what she does on a day-to-day basis. [00:08:43] As Melissa was talking about her projects that they work on at Quansight, Amanda wonders if that’s the majority of her portfolio, or if she works across different kinds of projects. We learn about the current grant they are working on with CZI that focuses on NumPy, SciPy, Matplotlib, and pandas. [00:13:18] We learn about the funding model and how sustainable it is. [00:16:20] Melissa shares some great ideas on how we can put more effort into making people feel seen and heard. [00:19:26] Melissa details some things she learned with the open source projects and things she recommends for others with large established projects. [00:22:44] Amanda talks about a 2020 paper that was released in nature called “Array programming with NumPy,” and Melissa gives us her perspective on what happened with the community in 2020, if things have changed, and what needs to be addressed. [00:27:09] Find out how CZI got involved with Melissa’s work, what their goals are, and how she’s changing in order to adapt towards those goals. [00:31:32] Melissa shares her thoughts on what the future of community management and community development looks like for people who are entering the role for those projects. [00:36:40] We hear more about Python Brasil 2022 that’s coming up. [00:38:05] Find out where you can follow Melissa online and learn more about her work. Quotes [00:02:49] “Since Quansight is a company very focused on sustaining and helping maintain open source projects, we are trying to help new contributors, people who want to do the move from contributor to maintainer, understanding what that means, and how we can help them get there, and how we can help improve leadership in our open source projects.” [00:11:53] “This is one of the barriers that we want to break, is that making sure that people understand that these are important, they are core projects in the scientific Python ecosystem, but at the same time they are projects just like any other.” [00:12:17] “I think experience of working with projects that are so old and big has taught me a lot about the dynamics of how people work and how new people try to join these projects and how we can improve on that.” [00:16:41] “We need to make sure that people who do contribution outside of code are credited and that they are valued inside open source projects.” [00:18:20] “I think we should think about diversifying these paths for contribution, but for that we need to go beyond GitHub. We need to go beyond the current metrics that we have for open source, we need to go beyond the current credit system and reputation system that we have for open source contributions.” [00:30:38] “Community managers are not second-class citizens.” Spotlight [00:39:21 Amanda’s spotlight is a 2014 paper from MSR called, “The Promises and Perils of Mining GitHub.” [00:40:48] Richard’s spotlight is the book, Don’t Sleep, There Are Snakes, by Daniel Everett. [00:41:52] Melissa’s spotlights are Ralf Gommers and Scientific Python initiative. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] Richard Littauer Twitter Amanda Casari Twitter Melissa Mendonça Twitter Melissa Mendonça LinkedIn Melissa Mendonça GitHub Quansight Quansight Labs Quansight Lab Projects Quansight Labs Team Sustain Podcast-Episode 57: Mikeal Rogers on Building Communities, the Early Days of Node.js, and How to Stay a Coder for Life Sustain Podcast-Episode 85: Geoffrey Huntley and Sustaining OSS with Gitpod Advancing an inclusive culture in the scientific Python ecosystem (CZI grant for NumPy, SciPy, Matplotlib, and Pandas Sustain Podcast-Episode 79: Leah Silen on how NumFocus helps makes scientific code

Guest Courtney Miller | Hongbo Fang Panelists Richard Littauer | Eriol Fox Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We are super excited to talk to our guests today on the topic of toxicity in open source. Today, we have joining us, Courtney Miller and Hungbo Fang, who are both PhD students at Carnegie Mellon University. We asked them to come on because we were curious about their work, and they came highly recommended by Bogdan Vasilescu. We’ll hear more about Courtney’s talk and her paper on her award-winning work exploring toxicity in open source communities, and we’ll find out the work Hongbo has done focusing on information flow and where people talk about open source. Download this episode now to learn more! [00:02:49] Courtney tells us about the talk she gave at the Linux Open Source Summit on her work exploring toxicity in open source communities. [00:03:55] We find out if there was a data set that was used to find the information. [00:05:08] Hongbo focuses on information flow and where do people talk about open source, and he tells us what his involvement is with this work. [00:06:57] Courtney tells us what she saw within the hundred issues and how she broke them down and tagged them to get to the conclusions she had. [00:08:44] We hear how Courtney used the technical definition of toxicity introduced by Google’s Perspective API tool to inform the decisions of what toxicity means. [00:12:01] Eriol wants to know whether Courtney’s had thoughts or intentions of looking into the content moderation space to see if there’s any similarities between what’s happening there. [00:14:29] Richard wonders what we can do to improve the state of toxicity in open source and wonders if she has any future work that can make this better. [00:16:08] Hongbo shares his thoughts about the future and what we can do to solve this from a quantitative angle. [00:17:02] Based on Courtney’s work, we find out if she thinks AI has improved, if she has hope, and Hongbo shares his thoughts as well. [00:19:20] Eriol wants to know how community members can help researchers by talking about things that are less referenced in the paper, and how Courtney thinks about tackling some of the harder to read parts of toxicity with new emerging spaces. [00:24:54] We find out if there’s a place where open source could have a restorative justice around toxicity and what action is there for the open source community to move from talking about our experiences of toxicity to how we can heal. [00:27:40] Hongbo explains what his work is mainly focused on, how he’s holding this space, and suggestions he has for the future on how we can improve information flow. [00:34:31] Richard talks about a paper called, The Tyranny of Structurelessness by Jo Freeman, and wonders if Hongbo has any suggestions for how to help open source projects with information gap issues. [00:39:33] Find out where you can follow Courtney, Hongbo, and their work online. Quotes [00:12:11] "Open source toxicity is not new, it’s very old. The long-term effects of this toxicity, especially in open source, is why I was really moved to do this research.” [00:14:56] “If you can identify toxic comments, and deal with them, instead of making the maintainers spend the emotional labor every time dealing with this stuff – [that] can be very helpful.” [00:15:17] “Maintainers are often toxic in their own projects.” [00:15:40] “We have issue templates – what about issue response templates?” [00:25:47] “If a community has leadership that tolerates certain things, it’s going to happen. If the community has leadership that does not tolerate certain things, it’s not going to happen.” Spotlight [00:41:21] Eriol’s spotlight is Digital Safety Snacks by Pen America. [00:41:58] Richard’s spotlight is an article he read called, The Opposite of Rape Culture is Nurturance Culture by Nora Samaran. [00:42:40] Hongbo’s spotlight is the book, Roads and Bridges: The Unseen Labor Behind Our Digital Infrastructure by Nadia Eghbal. [00:43:32] Courtney’s spotlight is the book, Working in Public: The Making and Maintenance of Open Source Software by Nadia Eghbal, and the tool, Betty. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] Richard Littauer Twitter Eriol Fox Twitter Courtney Miller Twitter Courtney Miller-GitHub Courtney Miller LinkedIn Hongbo Fang Twitter Hongbo Fang LinkedIn Sustain Podcast-Episode 40: How Open Source Maintainers Don’t Get Rich with Bogdan Vasilescu Perspective API Christian Kästner Kat Lo Twitter Meedan Twitter Open Source Diversity The Tyranny of Structurelessness by Jo Freeman “Did You Miss My Comment or What?” Understanding Toxicity in Open Source Discussions (paper) Roads and Bridges Sustain Podcast-Episode 51: Working in Public: Nadia Eghbal and her new book about Making and Sustaining Open Source Software Nadia Asparouhova (Eghbal) Website Digital Safety Snacks by Pen Americ