Sustain

Guest Deb Goodkin Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes This episode of Sustain features host Richard Littauer having a conversation with guest Deb Goodkin, the Executive Director of the FreeBSD Foundation. They discuss the history, development, and distinct characteristics of FreeBSD as an operating system independent from Linux, and the foundational support provided by the FreeBSD Foundation. The conversation delves into the organization’s efforts in software development, security, community engagement, and plans to increase diversity. They also highlight the celebration of FreeBSD Day and Deb’s passion for maintaining and promoting FreeBSD. Press download now to hear more! [00:00:55] Deb explains her role and clarifies that FreeBSD is an independent operating system, originally derived from Unix developed at Bell Labs. [00:02:27] Richard mentions “BSD” stands for “Berkeley Software Distribution.” Deb confirms the existence of the BSD license and its relevance. [00:03:27] Deb admits it’s challenging to determine the number of FreeBSD users due to the nature of the BSD license but estimates hundreds of thousands based on device usage. [00:04:08] Deb distinguishes the FreeBSD Foundation from the FreeBSD Project, explaining the foundation’s role in supporting the project and the community through funding, development, and advocacy. [00:06:47] Deb compares the FreeBSD Foundation to other foundations like the GNOME Foundation and the Linux Foundation, emphasizing FreeBSD’s focus on software development and community support. [00:08:15] Deb reveals most of the foundation’s funding comes from corporate sponsors. She highlights the foundation’s increasing focus on security in response to global standards and government guidelines, mentioning FreeBSD’s involvement in security research and development. [00:12:45] There’s a discussion on the foundation’s approach to policy and standards, noting the limited resources but emphasizing the importance of corporate and community input in deciding priorities and projects. [00:15:52] Richard questions Deb about feedback mechanisms used to gauge the FreeBSD community’s concerns about security. He wonders about the participation dynamics. Deb details the communication channels within the FreeBSD community, mentions a recent community survey and what the responses revealed, and explains the 1% negative feedback. [00:19:56] The conversation shifts towards diversity and inclusion within FreeBSD, questioning the foundation’s strategies to enhance geographical and demographic diversity. Deb discusses the foundation’s efforts to increase gender diversity, mentioning initiatives targeting women, especially through involvement in computing events and universities. [00:24:05] Richard inquires about the prevalence of women in executive roles within open source foundations, sparking a conversation on gender dynamics in leadership and the intense dedication required in these roles. Deb shares her admiration for the passion and intelligence within the FreeBSD community and emphasizes the foundation’s commitment to supporting the project and its people. [00:26:51] Why is Deb so passionate about FreeBSD? She reflects on her deep connection with the community, her continuous learning in the field, and her desire to see the project thrive long-term. [00:29:06] Richard acknowledges the upcoming FreeBSD Day, and Deb shares how it showcases the uses of FreeBSD with a week of activities. [00:31:26] Find out here you can learn more about FreeBSD and Deb’s work online. {00:33:34] Richard asks about the FreeBSD logo, confused by the demon mascot. Deb clarifies that the mascot, named Beastie, is a playful representation related to the UNIX’s background processes (daemons) and not an actual logo. Spotlight [00:35:34] Richard’s spotlight is Philip Pullman’s Trilogy book series. [00:36:12] Deb’s spotlight is Michael Lucas’s book, Absolute FreeBSD. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] SustainOSS Mastodon Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Socials Deb Goodkin X/Twitter Deb Goodkin LinkedIn FreeBSD Foundation 2024 FreeBSD Community Survey is Here-FreeBSD Foundation FreeBSD Foundation YouTube The FreeBSD Project His Dark Materials by Philip Pullman-Wikipedia Absolute FreeBSD by Michael W. Lucas (no starch press) Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Deb Goodkin.

Guest Julia Evans Panelists Richard Littauer | Amanda Casari Show Notes In this episode of Sustain, host Richard Littauer and co-host Amanda Casari talk to Julia Evans, a zine artist and programmer from Montreal. The discussion delves into Julia's journey in creating educational zines about technical topics like strace, Bash, and Git. Julia shares insights into her unique approach to making complex tools more accessible, how she uses feedback and beta readers to refine her work, and the importance of writing about stable technologies. The episode also touches on Julia's balance between art and sustainability, her collaborative work with her team, and highlights the significance of community-driven knowledge sharing. Press download to hear much more! [00:01:44] Julia explains her approach to creating zines, starting with the desire to simplify the usage of complex tools like strace. [00:03:14] Julia discusses her background as a programmer and the thematic focus of her zines, including making technical topics like Bash scripting more approachable. [00:04:54] Amanda praises Julia’s method of demystifying technical concepts through zines. Julia shares the challenges of creating zines on complex topics like Git, discussing how user feedback helps refine content. [00:07:14] Julia details the iterative process of creating zines, including using beta readers and feedback tools to enhance the clarity and usefulness of her guides. [00:11:50] The discussion shifts to how Julia selects topics for her zines, focusing on technologies with strong backward compatibility guarantees, ensuring that the content remains relevant and accurate over time. [00:15:59] Richard questions Julia about her preference for creating zines over other formats like video tutorials or classes, despite the potential reach and educational impact of those mediums. She explains her preference for zines, highlighting her affinity for print and writing, and he challenge with video formats. [00:19:13] Julia discusses her transformative experience at the Recurse Center, which greatly enhanced her understanding of computer systems, inspiring her to help others feel like “wizards” who fully grasp their tools. [00:21:39] Julia mentions co-founding “bang bang con,” a conference focused on short, insightful talks about programming, and confirms the availability of these talks online. [00:22:46] Richard asks Julia about “weird stuff” she likes to do with computers. She describes creating a DNS server that open shares queries, reflecting her passion for making the invisible aspects of computing visible. [00:24:43] Julia reveals how she funds her zine-making and educational endeavors through sales, which has allowed her to focus full-time on this work and even hire help to manage operations, enhancing sustainability and enjoyment of her work. [00:26:05] Julia reflects on the unpredictability of her success, expressing hesitation to offer advice on replicating her business model due to its unconventional nature. [00:27:47] Julia shares her approach to team building and sustainability, focusing on treating and paying her collaborators well to endure ongoing successful partnerships. [00:28:44] Find out where you can purchase Julia’s zines and find her online. Quotes [00:02:19] “I would have all these questions, what are people using this tool for?” [00:02:45] “I wanted to show people that this is not that big of a deal.” [00:06:26] “This is what I wish someone told me when I started using this tool.” [00:17:08] “I don’t usually want to learn a book’s worth of information about a topic. I’m a generalist.” [00:17:40] “My dream when learning about something is I just want to talk to someone who’s really, really smart for two hours and they’ll tell me everything I need to know.” [00:21:11] “You can do weird stuff!” [00:24:07] “I just thought it would be cool to make it, so I did.” [00:26:34] “Once I saw that I was working, I started to ask, is it sustainable? What do I need to learn about marketing to make it a sustainable business?” [00:28:29] “I try to be the last client to get fired. That’s my dream.” Spotlight [00:29:43] Amanda’s spotlight is she finally got to attend csv,conf,v8. [00:30:40] Richard’s spotlight is Rafik Draoui. [00:31:26] Julia’s spotlight is Atuin, a really nice way to search your shell history. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] SustainOSS Mastodon Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Socials Amanda Casari X/Twitter Julia Evans Blog Julia Evans Mastodon Julia Evans X/Twitter Julia Evans GitHub strace Write Useful Books by Rob Fitzpatrick Space Jam Recurse Center Sustain Podcast-Episode 146: Anjana Vakil on the Recurse Center, Outreachy, and Learning to Code !!Con 2024 (bang bang con) Gazouilli by Rafik Draoui Wizard Zines Wizard Zine on strace New zine: How Git Works! by Julia Evans Mess with dns Csv,conf,v8 Rafik Draoui GitHub Atuin Credits Produced by Richard Littauer E

Guest Max Jones Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes In this first ever cross-over episode of Sustain and Open Source for Climate, host Richard welcomes guest Max Jones, a data scientist and open source software developer who works at Carbon Plan. Max discusses the importance of open source in bringing about effective climate action, the role of Carbon Plan in building accessible data products and tools, and how being a nonprofit is advantageous for open source development. The conversation also touches on funding models for open source projects in nonprofits, including support from individual donors, grants, and collaboration with governmental and private entities like NASA and Microsoft. Additionally, Max shares insights into the development of tools for better visualization of climate data, the impact of open source on climate action, and the challenges of ensuring software and data accessibility and reproducibility. Press download now to hear more! [00:02:50] Richard outlines Max’s background in open source software development focused on climate action, including his leadership role at Carbon Plan. [00:03:31] Max discusses the mission of Carbon Plan, emphasizing the importance of transparency and accessibility in climate solutions. [00:04:23] Max describes his role in leading open source initiatives at Carbon Plan. [00:03:23] The conversation shifts to the practical aspects of running a non-profit focused on open source projects, including funding mechanisms such as grants from NASA. [00:06:58] Max explains one of their projects that involve tools for visualizing large-scale climate data to assist cities in planning and decision-making. He mentions how these tools are designed to be accessible to both scientists and the general public. [00:08:13] There’s a discussion about community engagement with their tools, noting that while many people reach out with questions or feature requests, there have been few contributions in terms of pull requests. [00:08:53] Max reflects on a collaboration with the Washington Post using their tools to inform public understanding of climate projections. [00:10:37] Max discusses the broader use of the tools by various agencies and the importance of transparency for reproducibility in research. [00:11:24] Max emphasizes the importance of reproducibility in open source projects across academia, industry, and the non-profit sector, and he acknowledges the challenges in ensuring that external users can engage with and reproduce their computational workflows. [00:12:56] The conversation shares insights into building a community around open source projects, particularly through involvement with the Pangeo project, which supports reproducibility and scalability in earth science workflows. [00:14:08] Max talks about the importance of finding common needs across different fields to promote broader collaboration and integration and mentions the Zarr project. [00:15:51] We hear about the size of the team at Carbon Plan which includes various roles. [00:16:28] Richard inquires about the funding landscape for open source projects at Carbon Plan. Max mentions the initial funding received through collaborations with NASA and Microsoft. He emphasizes the importance of ongoing government and agency support for both new tools and the maintenance of existing software. [00:17:51] Max talks about contributing back to open source communities, highlighting the practice of reporting bugs and engaging with upstream dependencies to improve tools. [00:18:38] The necessity of open source for transparency in climate solutions is discussed, contrasting with closed source companies that sell proprietary products to governments. Max argues for the importance of open source in ensuring accountability and better outcomes in climate solutions. [00:20:07] Max discusses the broader aspects of open resources, such as leveraging open standards, data, and hardware. He mentions collaborating with other organizations to tackle scalable computing challenges. [00:21:18] The conversation shifts to the environmental impact of computational work, with Max acknowledging the need for more efficient workflows and the broader implications of their organization’s focus, which includes understanding and adapting to climate change impacts. [00:24:15] Richard and Max discuss the challenges of making data sets public in a market-driven environment. Max emphasizes the role of nonprofits in pushing for greater transparency and the potential impact of their work on broader technological practices. [00:26:09] Finally, Max highlights a new project called OffsetsDB, and tell us where you can follow him and his work online. Quotes [00:03:44] “We believe that it’s necessary to have transparency and accessibility in our research, data, and tools in order to accomplish the mission.” [00:06:17] “I don’t think we can have great climate solutions unless they’re open and accessible, especially to the communities that are most impacted by the

Guests Eva Maxfield Brown | Boris Veytsman Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes In this episode of Sustain, host Richard Littauer engages with guests Eva Maxfield Brown and Boris Veytsman to explore their co-authored paper, "Biomedical Open Source Software: Crucial Packages and Hidden Heroes." The paper focuses on identifying crucial but often overlooked software dependencies in biomedical research. The discussions delve into how the study used data from two million papers to map these dependencies, revealing both well-supported and undermaintained software components vital to scientific research. There’s a conversation on the methodological challenges and the concept of "Nebraska packages," which are essential yet potentially undermaintained elements crucial to the software stack used in both industry and science. The conversation also covers broader implications for software sustainability, security, and future research directions, including improving how software contributions are tracked and recognized within scientific careers. Press download now to hear more! [00:01:47] Richard dives into the paper co-authored by Eva and Boris. Boris explains the origins of the paper, starting from a workshop at CZI aimed at accelerating science through sustainable software, leading to the analysis of software used in biomedical research. He highlights the focus on identifying crucial yet often unmentioned software dependencies in research software, which he labels as “unsung heroes.” [00:05:22] Boris provides findings from their study, noting that while many foundational packages were cited, there are significant packages that, despite their critical role, remain uncited. [00:06:43] Eva discusses the concept of “Nebraska packages,” which are essential yet potentially undermaintained components that are crucial to the software stack used in both industry and science. Also, she elaborates on the methodological challenges of determining which packages to include in their analysis, particularly in terms of dependencies that vary between different users and contexts. [00:09:42] Richard reflects on the broader implications of their discussion for the open source community, particularly in terms of software sustainability and security. Eva emphasizes the importance of security across all fields and discusses the potential impact of software bugs on scientific research and the need for robust software infrastructure. [00:12:04] Boris comments on the necessity of well-tested tools in the scientific community, given that many scientists may lack a strong background in software development and training. [00:13:47] Richard quotes from the paper discussing the absence of cycles in the network of software packages used in science, indicating a more robust design compared to general software. He questions this in light of earlier comments about scientists not being great at coding. [00:14:08] Eva explains that the paper’s findings about acyclic dependencies (DAGs) might seem surprising given the common perception that scientific software is poorly developed. She notes that while scientists may not be trained in proper software packaging, the Python environment helps prevent cyclic dependencies. [00:17:31] Richard brings up “Katz centrality” which is discussed in the paper, and Boris clarifies that “Katz centrality” refers to a concept by Leo Katz on network centrality, explaining how it helps determine the importance of nodes within a network. [00:20:13] Richard questions the practical applications of the research findings, probing for advice on supporting crucial but underrecognized dependencies within software ecosystems. Eva addresses future research directions, including improving ecosystem matching algorithms for better accuracy in linking software mentions to the correct ecosystems. [00:22:50] Eva suggests expanding the research to cover more domains beyond biomedicine, considering different software needs across various scientific disciplines. Boris discusses the potential for targeted interventions to support underrecognized contributors in the scientific software community aiming to enhance their prestige. [00:27:22] Richard asks how the research team plans to map dependencies to individual contributors and track their motivations. Boris responds that while they have gathered substantial data from sources like GitHub logs, publishing this information poses ethical challenges due to privacy concerns. [00:28:45] Eva discusses her work on linking GitHub profiles to academic authors using ORCID identifiers to better track contributions to scientific software. [00:31:42] Richard brings up the broader impacts of their research, questioning whether their study on software packages centrality within the scientific community is unique or if there are similar studies at this scale. Eva acknowledges the need for more comprehensive studies and cites a previous study from 2015 that analyzed developer networks on Git

Guest Emmy Tsang Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes In this episode of Sustain, host Richard Littauer welcomes Emmy Tsang, the Engagement Lead at Invest in Open Infrastructure (IOI). Emmy introduces the mission of IOI, which focuses on increasing investment in and adoption of open infrastructure to promote equitable access and participation in research. The discussion delves into what constitutes 'open infrastructure,' the need for nuanced definitions, and IOI's efforts in providing evidence-based tools, strategic support, and funding pilots within the space. Emmy also highlights IOI's inaugural 'State of Open Infrastructure 2024' report, set to serve as an annual resource for understanding the open infrastructure landscape. They discuss the report's contents, including analysis of funding, governance trends, and policies affecting open infrastructure, and Emmy invites feedback from the community to improve future iterations of the report. Press download to hear more! [00:01:04] Emmy explains IOI and how it provides tools and recommendations, strategic support, and runs funding pilots. [00:02:14] There’s a discussion on the growth of the IOI team and the importance of a global perspective, as well as an explanation of IOI’s funding and fiscal sponsorship by Code for Science and Society. [00:03:47] Emmy explains open infrastructure as a spectrum and the importance of context and mentions the five criteria for defining open infrastructure. [00:07:37] Richard asks Emmy for clarification on the definition of infrastructure on the context of open infrastructure. She tells us a broader definition as services and technologies relied upon by researchers and scholars and gives an example. [00:10:34] Richard questions how IOI integrates community feedback into their work. Emmy explains IOI’s privileged position to consider open infrastructure at an ecosystem level, mentions the Infra Finder tool for open infrastructure discovery, and her role as an engagement person. She also mentions shifting power in funding decisions and increasing accessibility of funding to low and middle-income economies. [00:15:32] The “State of Open Infrastructure 2024” report will launch on May 28th. Emmy discusses the topics covered in the report, explains how they used their Infra Finder tool, and the data from the report will be shared openly via Zenodo. [00:19:38] Richard appreciates the scope and ambition of the report and wonders about the primary audience of the report and its relevance to open source maintainers. We learn the report is targeted at funders, but also relevant to maintainers and developers of open infrastructures. [00:25:16] Emmy responds on how they reach out to potential infrastructures and encourage storytelling through their work and engagement. She explains the unique perspective IOI brings to the concept of infrastructure and emphasizes the importance of defining success and sustainability for open infrastructure. Also, she mentions the “Graceful Transitions” section in the report, highlighting organizational changes in infrastructures. [00:30:18] Richard agrees on the need for personal and emotional discussions about transitions in open source projects. Emmy invites listeners to participate in community conversations about the report’s chapters and shares details on the upcoming community conversations and how to join the mailing list for updates. [00:32:40] Find out where you can read the report and follow Emmy on the interwebs. Quotes [00:04:14 ] “We find it easy to put open into really clear binaries, you’re open or not open, etc, etc.” [00:04:43] “Most of the time these binaries don’t really make sense.” [00:06:29] “We’re viewing open infrastructure more as a spectrum.” [00:26:42] “What does success and sustainability mean for open infrastructure?” Spotlight [00:34:24] Richard’s spotlight is the book, The (Big)Year That Flew By by Arjan Dwarshuis [00:35:10] Emmy’s spotlight is the Digital Infrastructure Insights Fund. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Bluesky SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] SustainOSS Mastodon Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Socials Richard Littauer email Richard Littauer SustainOSS email Emmy Tsang X/Twitter Emmy Tsang Mastodon Emmy Tsang LinkedIn Sustain Podcast-Episode 43: Investing in Open Infrastructure with Kaitlin Thaney Invest in Open Infrastructure Code for Science & Society ggplot2 The Astropy Project Roads and Bridges: The Unseen Labor Behind Our Digital Infrastructure Infra Finder Call for proposals: Open Infrastructure Fund by Emmy Tsang 2024 State of Open Infrastructure Report Zenodo Arjan Dwarshuis Digital Infrastructure Insights Fund Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Emmy Tsang.

Guest Simon Vansintjan Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes In this episode, host Richard Littauer and guest Simon Vansintjan dive into the topic of open-source sustainability in the music industry. Simon, a long-time friend of Richard and a seasoned coder and designer, introduces Mirlo, an innovative online platform he's working on that combines elements of Bandcamp and Patreon to enable direct financial support for musicians. Mirlo, an open-source project built with a full-stack TypeScript, Express, Redis, Postgres, and React, aims to provide an alternative to traditional music streaming services by focusing on direct artist support and community engagement. Simon discusses the challenges and benefits of building Mirlo as a cooperative, the intricacies of its development and funding model, and the broader implications of open-source principles in creating a more equitable and sustainable ecosystem for musicians. Hit download now to hear more! [00:01:38] What is Mirlo? Simon explains it’s an online record store where users can buy digital music directly from musicians and provide monthly support, similar to a combination of Bandcamp and Patreon. [00:02:32] Simon discusses Mirlo’s open source status and its tech stack, which includes TypeScript/JavaScript, Express, Redis, Postgres, and React. [00:03:13] Richard inquires about the origins of Mirlo, and Simon describes his work with Resonate, issues with legacy code, and the decision to create Mirlo to explore sustainable business models without venture capital. [00:04:16] We hear that Spotify isn’t profitable as Simon discusses the challenges streaming service face, which led Mirlo to adopt a different model. [00:05:04] Simon explains Mirlo’s co-op structure, focusing on worker empowerment and non-hierarchical decision-making, contrasting it with Resonate’s multi-stakeholder co-op model. [00:08:57] Richard asks about Mirlo’s sustainability model. Simon describes Mirlo’s revenue model, which includes taking a small cut from each sale, user contributions that cover server costs, and plans for grants and a Kickstarter campaign. [00:10:23] Simon explains the complexities of starting as a nonprofit and the decision to form an LLC for greater flexibility. [00:11:03] Richard questions the distinction between artists and worker owners. Simon discusses the different models for including musicians as co-owners, ongoing experimentation with the co-op structure, and the importance of recognizing musicians’ contributions to Mirlo. [00:13:07] The conversation turns to contributors to the GitHub codebase, and Richard mentions a couple of contributors and wonders if they have equal shares as worker owners. Simon explains that neither contributor is a worker owner, and he talks about the challenges in tracking contributions for co-ownership. [00:16:28] Simon highlights the slow process of building trust and the challenges posed by financial constraints, emphasizing the need for time and money. [00:18:29] Richard shifts focus to the codebase and notes the absence of contributing docs, asking about the onboarding process for new contributors. Simon explains their use of a Discord server for feedback and onboarding. [00:20:18] Richard questions the benefits of being open source for Mirlo, and Simon emphasizes all the significant benefits of being open source. [00:21:30] Mirlo’s competitive space is brought up and Simon acknowledges the moral aspect and mentions Mirlo’s near feature parity with Bandcamp, excluding merch and label support. He explains the Mirlo isn’t necessarily trying to compete directly with major platforms but aims to create a diverse, open, and transparent internet space. [00:23:52] Simon explains the Kickstarter rewards, including a compilation album and merch, and when it ends. [00:25:31] Richard praises Mirlo’s intentional cooperative approach and its efforts to maintain and grow the platform sustainably and Simon encourages listeners to go check out Mirlo, mentioning he has purchased music from the platform. [00:26:19] Find out where you can follow Simon online. Quotes [00:16:46] “A lot of [this project] is built on trust. It takes a long time to build trust with people.” [00:20:25] “The code is much better for [being open source].” [00:21:06] “Being open source generates trust.” [00:22:05] “We’re noticing that people care about it being a co-op, and that people care about it being open source.” Spotlight [00:27:12] Richard’s spotlight is Ryo Fukui, a Japanese jazz pianist. [00:27:48] Simon’s spotlight is the book, “Noise Uprising: The Audiopolitics of a World Musical Revolution.” Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Bluesky SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] SustainOSS Mastodon Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Socials Simon Vansintjan Mastodon Sustain-Episode 129:Per Ploug and the Spotify FOSS Fund Resonate Mirlo Mirlo Kickstarter: Musicians as worker-owners in co-operatives Ryo Fukui Scenery (Ryo Fukui album) Noise Uprising:

Guest Dr. Carlotta A. Berry Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes In this episode, host Richard Littauer engages in a conversation with Dr. Carlotta Berry, a Professor in the Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering at Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology and a passionate advocate for diversity in STEM. Carlotta shares her journey from an undergraduate student rarely seeing diversity in her field to becoming an engineering professor determined to change that narrative. She discusses her work at the Children's Museum of Indianapolis, emphasizing the importance of making STEM accessible and exciting for all, especially girls and underrepresented minorities. She also dives into her motivations behind founding two nonprofits, Black in Engineering and Black in Robotics, highlighting their roles during the racial reckoning and the importance of maintaining momentum in diversity efforts amidst societal backlashes. Additionally, Carlotta touches upon her engagement with open source communities, particularly in robotics, to further democratize STEM education. The discussion also covers her unique approaches to connecting with younger audiences through hip hop slam poetry on TikTok and the significance of representation in every aspect of STEM, from academia to community initiatives. Press download now to hear more! [00:01:05] Carlotta tells us about the Children’s Museum of Indianapolis and describes it as one of the largest children’s museums in the world, detailing its features and her role there in STEM and robotics activities. [00:02:00] Richard comments on Carlotta’s extensive education and asks about her journey from PHD to her current position. She explains her motivation for pursuing a PhD was to become an engineering professor and to represent diversity in the field. [00:02:59] Carlotta recounts that her PhD experience was relatively smooth compared to her undergrad challenges, highlighting the focus on subjects she loved. [00:04:57] The conversation turns to Carlotta’s involvement with nonprofits, particularly ‘Black in Engineering’ and ‘Black in Robotics’, and she shares the origin of these groups. She talks about the purpose of ‘Black in Engineering’ and its relevance in the current political climate. [00:08:26] Richard inquires how Carlotta stays motivated amid setbacks in civil rights progress. Carlotta cites the resilience of past civil rights leaders as inspiration and emphasizes the role of true allies. [00:10:41] The discussion shifts to open source, and Carlotta outlines her work in STEM communication and her involvement with open source hardware through her robots, the ‘flower bots’. Also, she acknowledges she has built a community primarily through social media engagement. [00:15:16] Carlotta explains Rose Bot’s origin, related to her school’s mascot, and its connection with various STEM outreach and education initiatives, such as Rosie, Lily, and Daisy bots. She celebrates the success of her program in increasing enrollment and diversity in computer science and software engineering, as well as her own department. [00:17:50] Richard inquires about Carlotta’s day-to-day activities and how she manages everything. She clarifies she’s a workaholic with a high teaching lead at a teaching-focused school and does not balance well, yet she is passionate about her work, and she details her daily schedule. [00:20:25] What is Carlotta’s mentoring approach for young women in STEM? She emphasizes honesty and support for her students, sharing her own struggles and the importance of community and resources to navigate the difficulties in engineering education. [00:23:46] Richard asks Carlotta what changes she would suggest for the broader open source community to increase diversity and representation in STEM. Carlotta advises against working in silos, stressing the importance of education about open source, reaching beyond typical recruitment spaces, and creating diverse testing groups. [00:26:35] Carlotta shares her strategy of code-switching and the importance of connecting with people and listening to them. She encourages students to pursue what is authentic to them and to avoid forcing themselves into careers they are not passionate about. [00:29:21] Richard inquires about hip hop slam poetry, and Carlotta shares that she used hip hop slam poetry as a method to connect with younger audiences and teach them about STEM on TikTok. [00:31:03] Carlotta talks about her books and describes her passion for romance novels and her decision to write black STEM romance novels to represent black women in science and engineering positively. [00:33:19] How does Carlotta balance her mission with her personal aspirations? She explains her mission serves her internal validation, aiming to improve the STEM experience for black and female students and thus contributing to a more diverse and inclusive future. [00:35:18] Find out where you can read more about Carlotta and her work. Quotes [00:09:57] “Yeah, and is tha

Guest Susan Kennedy Panelists Richard Littauer | Eriol Fox Show Notes In this episode, hosts Richard Littauer and Eriol Fox chat with Susan Kennedy, a program manager at the Open Technology Fund (OTF), to explore the intricacies of sustaining open source technologies. OTF, a nonprofit organization, plays a vital role in promoting internet freedom in oppressive regimes by supporting the development of anti-censorship and anti-surveillance technologies. Funded by the U.S. Congress but operating independently, OTF aids in navigating the challenges attached to open source project sustainability and maintenance. Susan outlines OTF's fund mechanism, highlighting its commitment to supporting open source projects that are pivotal for internet freedom. Also, the episode shines a light on the newly initiated FOSS Sustainability Fund by OTF, designed to specifically address the financial and logistical hurdles facing open source technologies today. Press download to hear more! [00:01:41] Susan explains the OTF’s role as a non-profit promoting internet freedom through anti-censorship and anti-surveillance technologies, mainly funded by the U.S. government but operates independently. [00:02:37] There’s a comparison of OTF to Germany’s Sovereign Tech Fund, emphasizing differences in funding despite both being government funded. [00:03:51] There’s a discussion on how OTF funds projects like Signal despite potential congressional controversies. [00:04:15] Susan introduces the FOSS Sustainability Fund aimed at supporting open source technologies for internet freedom. [00:06:15] Susan gives details on the scale of the FOSS Sustainability Fund, mentioning financial contributions from other private donors alongside U.S. government funds. [00:07:34] We find out the details of eligibility criteria for FOSS Sustainability Fund applicants, as Susan emphasizes projects with a track record and active community engagement. [00:09:00] Susan discusses the outcomes from the pilot funding round, focusing on the importance of community meetings and interaction. Also, she talks about exploration of sustainability as a lifecycle, including potential sunsetting of projects, emphasizing that sustainability might look different for each project. [00:13:17] Susan talks about exploration of sustainability as a lifecycle, including potential sunsetting of projects, emphasizing that sustainability might look different for each project. [00:15:19] Richard questions the approach of funding projects that are charismatic and grant-savvy, instead of focusing on lesser-known but critical projects, questioning the open application process. Susan defends the open application process of the Internet Freedom Fund, explaining it allows for a broader reach and inclusivity, ensuring opportunities for lesser-known projects to apply. [00:17:06] Richard asks if a small, unrelated project like ‘right pad’ used by major projects can apply, leading to a broader discussion on the relevance of small projects within significant tools. Susan responds by focusing on the end-users’ needs, emphasizing the importance of even small projects if they are critical to larger tools like Tails. [00:18:51] Susan highlights the two-phase application process designed to guide applicants efficiently, providing feedback and advice on project fit and impact, and she describes the iterative application process. [00:19:51] Eriol discusses the advisory aspect of OTF’s application process, noting the interaction and intention of their approach which aids applicants in refining their proposals. They raise concerns about projects using sustainability funds to tackle debt and asks how OTF views the alignment of tech debt resolution with user-centric sustainability. [00:21:34] Susan elaborates on distinguishing between tech debt and sustainability, advocating for a balanced approach that includes both technical fixes and enhancements in user engagement and governance. She stresses the importance of having user feedback mechanisms and long-term strategic planning as part of sustainable development, derived from consultations with funded projects. [00:23:36] We learn about OTF’s lab services, which support projects beyond funding, in areas like security, usability, design, and communication, enhancing the holistic support structure for open source sustainability. [00:26:44] Richard asks if there are expectations for funded projects to help guide their peers toward more sustainable practices. Susan explains that while OTF shares a list of alternate funding sources with applicants, the field remains underfunded, and stresses the importance of sharing learning publicly to help educate other funders and enhance funding efforts. [00:28:07] Richard questions if there are requirements for projects to support their dependencies or the broader ecosystem. Susan clarifies that while there’s no mandate for projects to fund their dependencies, OTF looks for projects that consider and support their depende

Guest Velda Kiara Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Today, host Richard has a conversation with guest Velda Kiara, a passionate open source developer. Velda discusses how open source has helped businesses, how it benefits both coders and non-coders, and how it can lead to career growth. She also talks about the challenges of open source, particularly in terms of finances and the sustainability of projects. The discussion also turns to Velda’s attendance at OSCA fest in Lagos, Nigeria, and her involvement with Black Python Devs. Velda shares her personal journey of contributing to Django and other Python projects and tells us about her experience joining programs like Djangonaut Space and contributing to projects like Novu. Press download now to hear more! [00:00:10] The episode opens with Velda highlighting the ins and outs of open source, acknowledging that it allows for the use of software that businesses can monetize. She appreciates the good that comes from open source despite the criticism of some corporations. She acknowledges the pros and cons of open source, expressing hope that the pros will eventually outweigh the cons. [00:02:21] Richard introduces Velda and praises her answer and asks if she’d like to change her initial statement. Velda stands by her answer, expressing willingness to continue the discussion for further insights on open source. [00:03:31] Velda confirms her attendance at OSCA fest, mentioning he talk on building APIs with Django, DRF, and Open API, and discusses the importance of sustainability in growing the open source community in Africa. [00:04:34] Richard inquires about Velda’s involvement with Black Panther Devs, and she explains the inception, its objectives, and activities like workshops and meetups that support the community. [00:07:12] The conversation shifts to encouraging newcomers to join open source, emphasizing roles beyond coding, such as project management and writing. [00:09:08] Richard and Velda discuss the challenges designers face in open source and the potential career benefits of contributing to open source, even for non-developers. Velda shares how open source helped her gain experience and improve skills, which is beneficial at any career level, and she discusses the “level up” aspect of open source and the learning opportunities it provides. [00:12:00] Richard explores into the sustainability of open source for late-stage careers and the challenges maintainers face. Velda suggests using open source for mentorship and ensuring project continuity by engaging contributors and sharing maintenance responsibilities. [00:14:02] What currently excites Velda about open source? She expresses her excitement about contributing to Django after building many websites with it and her positive experience at DjangoCon US, which she found to be an inclusive community. Also, she discusses Djangonaut Space, an eight-week program designed to assist new contributors like her in contributing to the Django framework or third-party packages. [00:16:28] Velda mentions her contributions to other Python projects, such as Novu, and her new experiences working with SDKs. She reflects on the learning process in open source and shares her excitement for exploring various Python projects and talks about how she started a newsletter called, “The Storytellers by Tales.” Quotes [00:12:36] “If you eventually want to not let the project die, you could easily use open source as a way to mentor another person who’s going to help you maintain for a while if you want to retire or stop writing code in general.” Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] SustainOSS Mastodon Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Socials Velda Kiara X/Twitter Velda Kiara LinkedIn Velda Kiara Website Black Python Devs KJay Miller Djangonaut Space Novu Sustain Podcast-Episode 169: Dawn Wages of PSF on organizing communities, ethical licenses, and more Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Velda Kiara.

Guest Kari L. Jordan Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes In this episode of Sustain, host Richard welcomes guest Dr. Kari L. Jordan, the Executive Director of The Carpentries, to discuss the organization’s mission, challenges, and strategies for fostering an inclusive community that teaches data and coding skills. We explore topics like sustaining open source projects, the importance of teaching open source tools and practices, and how The Carpentries contribute to the ecosystem. The conversation dives into the funding strategies, volunteer engagement, accessibility, and the future goals of The Carpentries, including spreading skills in data science and coding across diverse linguistic and geographical communities. Also, we’ll touch on broader issues such as equity in tech and the potential avenues for increasing participation of underrepresented groups in open source and data science. Press download to hear more! [00:02:03] Richard asks Kari about The Carpentries work, and she gives her elevator pitch, emphasizing their mission of teaching inclusive data and coding skills. [00:03:23] Kari discusses how The Carpentries incorporates open source principles in teaching various aspects, including community management and code of conduct. Also, she outlines the adjacent communities to The Carpentries, mentioning rOpenSci and the Center for Scientific Collaboration and Community Engagement. [00:05:15] Richard jokes about The Carpentries being well-funded, and Kari clarifies their actual funding sources and the crucial role of volunteers. [00:07:15] Kari details how the nine paid staff of The Carpentries structure their work across curricula development, workshops and instruction, and community engagement. [00:08:59] A question comes up about The Carpentries success metrics, and Kari speaks on their goal to build global capacity in essential data skills for informed decision-making. [00:11:56] Discussing the ethical use of data, Kari explains The Carpentries alignment with the FAIR Principles to ensure data management is equitable and accessible. [00:14:47] Kari highlights the importance of recognition and appreciation in open source contributions, and speaks about the diversity in forms of appreciation, from LinkedIn badges to DOIs for contributions, and the necessity of different incentives. [00:17:34] Kari acknowledges the divide and discusses how individuals in The Carpentries often pick a focus, be it teaching or lesson development, though some do cross over between data and open source contributions. [00:19:37] Richard probes into the potential contribution of ‘data people’ to the burnout of open source maintainers and whether they should also contribute to the maintenance. Kari agrees on the correlation but suggests it might be a confidence issues and emphasizes the need to educate these individuals on the importance of their contributions. [00:21:12] Richard seeks a clearer definition of what constitutes a contribution within The Carpentries, and Kari responds by referring to their Code of Conduct which clarifies that contributions are welcome as long as they adhere to it. [00:22:45] What is Kari’s long-term vision for The Carpentries? She envisions their lessons being taught in hundreds of languages and spreading their educational model without a reliance on strong internet connections and mentions currently having a multilingual open source glossary called Glosario. [00:25:26] Kari talks about the hardest part of her job, which is that volunteer capacity and revenue generation are current organizational priorities. [00:28:29] What would Kari focus on in open source if she wasn’t with The Carpentries? She expresses her desire to concentrate efforts on equity and inclusion, specifically increasing the involvement of people of color in open source within the U.S. [00:31:20] Richard asks Kari what she’s really excited about for the future of The Carpentries. She shares her enthusiasm about potential strategic alliances with other organizations to share resources and thrive together, and the creation of resources for communities to run their own inclusive events. [00:32:58] Find out where you can follow Kari online. Quotes [00:06:46] “We’ve supported workshops in over 64 countries, and it’s because of our volunteers.” [00:09:31] “We know that decisions that impact our lives are made with data.” [00:10:48] “Before I came on staff at The Carpentries, I had never heard of R, Python. I had never heard of GitHub, and I have a PhD.” [00:16:07] “Appreciation is different depending on what’s important to you.” Spotlight [00:33:55] Richard’s spotlight is Nisha Ghatak, from NeSI, who ran two of The Carpentries workshops he attended in New Zealand. [00:34:21] Kari’s spotlight is OpenRefine, a very powerful open source tool. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] SustainOSS Mastodon Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Socials Dr. Kari L. Jordan X/Twitter Dr.

Guest Stephen Okonkwo Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes In this episode of Sustain, the OSCA 2023 series, host Richard welcomes Steve Okonkwo, a multidisciplinary designer who actively contributes to the Open Source Community Africa (OSCA). Steve sheds light on his role in enhancing user experience through thoughtful design, particularly for OSCA, and shares his dedication to continue elevating the design team's work. Richard and Steve discuss the Sustain sub-event, the importance of design in open source, and the intricacies of conference planning around open source products. Steve also touches on the significance of research, the need for transparency in open source communities, and his personal journey and future aspirations within the design landscape. Press download now to hear more! [00:01:07] Steve tells us about his career as a multidisciplinary designer and his work in open source. He discusses his focus on improving user experience through design, including website and brand identity design for OSCA. [00:02:01] Richard compliments the OSCA’s branding, particularly the orange logos, and Steve mentions that OSCA has been his primary focus, and he plans to continue supporting their design team. [00:02:55] There was a large attendance at the last OSCAFest and a Sustain sub-event. Steve tells us he was the design facilitator for the design side of Sustain. [00:03:40] Steve highlights key points from OSCA discussions, including the growing opportunities for designers in open source and the importance of contributing to project aesthetics. [00:05:30] The conversation shifts to the iterative nature of web design and user experience, and Steve emphasizes the importance of research and testing in design updates to prevent overwhelming users. [00:06:37] Richard discusses the uniqueness of working with open source communities and the need for transparency. Steve talks about his approach to working with open source, emphasizing transparency, communications, and commitment to quality. [00:08:09] Richard asks about building a conference around open source products, and Steve shares insights from OSCAFest, including showcasing new tools like Penpot. [00:10:15] Richard inquires about challenges in designing the OSCA festival, and Steven mentions issues with physical artwork and space design. [00:11:02] What’s next for Steve? He talks about his current role as a multidisciplinary designer in Spokane, Washington, and his aspirations in open source design. [00:12:06] Find out where you can find out more about Steve’s work on the web. Quotes [00:05:19] “They always say in the tech industry, the web is never done.” [00:05:45] “Research is a very important part of design.” Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] SustainOSS Mastodon Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Mastodon Richard Littauer Instagram Steve Okonkwo Twitter Stephen Okonkwo LinkedIn Steve Okonkwo Website Penpot OSCA OSCA Festival Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Stephen Okonkwo.

Guest Yani Bellini Saibene Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes In this episode of Sustain, host Richard welcomes guest Yani Bellini Saibene from Argentina. Yani, with a rich background in open source community management, shares her journey into the tech and open source world, and highlights her roles as the rOpenSci Community Manager, R-Ladies Project Lead, and Vice President for the Board of Directors for The Carpentries. The discussion dives into the challenges of funding, sustainability of volunteer-based models, and the importance of including diverse voices in open source development. The conversation also explores the economic disparities and cultural differences affecting contributors form the global south and how building strong local communities can empower individuals by providing them with tools, knowledge, and a sense of belonging in the wider world. Press download to hear more! [00:01:47] Yani describes her start as a researcher at INTA while at university, her degree in computer science, and her initial work developing software and teaching scientists to use computing tools. She also details her career progression and her master thesis at INTA. [00:04:49] We hear about the foundation and global expansion of R-Ladies, as Yani emphasizes community strength and the organizers’ passion. She discusses the flexibility and inclusivity of the chapters, and the support and resources shared among the community. [00:08:56] Richard questions about the distinct roles and activities between rOpenSci, R-Ladies, and The Carpentries, which appear to have similar goals in teaching R, and Yani explains the different objectives of the three organizations. [00:12:50] Yani lists the funders, including the Chan Zuckerberg Initiative, Sloan Foundation, and others. She describes the funding models for R-Ladies and Carpentries and the challenges of sustaining such community-oriented projects. [00:14:52] Richard inquires about the role of the board of directors in establishing post-grant funding. Yani explains The Carpentries’ membership model where institutions pay for benefits like workshops and instructor training, she mentions the perks for members, discusses the challenges of maintaining services without sufficient membership or grants, and highlights cultural and financial barriers in Latin America. [00:20:17] Richard is curious about cultural barriers and asks for further insights into overcoming cultural barriers and the limitations of translations. Yani discusses her personal journey with the English language and its importance in coding beyond syntax and shares some data from a recent study that was done, and the paper is called, “The manifold costs of being a non-native English speaker in science,” from PLOS Biology. [00:24:42] Yani discusses additional studies, mentioning the Linux Foundation report on English as a barrier in open source contribution and its influence on perceived expertise. [00:25:55] Richard asks Yani about the point at which translation efforts start to yield benefits for the community and inquires about the visible impacts and dividends from investments in internationalizing materials. Yani cites examples of immediate benefits, and discusses her involvement in translating educational materials, which has supported teaching many Spanish speaking teachers. [00:32:38] Richard raises concerns about the possibility of global exploitation through talent extraction from non-English speaking regions. Yani addresses the issue of local versus international business compensation and the ethical implications for non-profit organizations. [00:36:30] We hear Richard’s concerns about how to have conversations about open source contributions and community building in a non-extractive way and he wonders if it’s feasible to collectively support open source maintainers financially. Yani explains the concept of three “currencies” in any job: money, heart, and brain. [00:39:16] Yani discusses the champions program at rOpenSci, where stipends were important for participants to allocate time to the tasks and do an excellent job. [00:41:05] Find out where you can follow Yani online. Quotes [00:06:17] “In R-Ladies, you have enough informality and enough expertise to make this a special place to learn.” [00:18:26] “There is little funding for maintaining what you already have.” [00:20:40] “I have to confess that I approached the English language because I loved code.” Spotlight [00:42:26] Richard’s spotlight is a book he’s reading called, Theodore Rex. [00:43:10] Yani’s spotlight is a friend and someone she works with at R-Ladies, Athanasia Mo Mowinckel. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] SustainOSS Mastodon Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Socials Yani Bellini Saibene GitHub Yani Bellini Saibene Mastodon Yani Bellini Saibene Website Yani Bellini Saibene LinkedIn Teaching Tech Together R-Ladies The Carpentries rOpenSci The manifold costs of be

Guest Adewale “Ace” Abati Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes In this episode, host Richard Littauer sits down with Adewale “Ace” Abati, a staff developer advocate at TBD and member of the Open Source Community Africa. Today, they discuss Ace’s work in building a decentralized future of the web and advocating for open protocol and Web5 technology. Ace provides insightful perspectives on the pressure of content creation, the importance of repetition for skill acquisition, and the role of community in open source project management. The conversation also touches on Ace’s ‘Made. In. Nigeria.’ project, a website that highlights the contributions of Nigerian developers to the open source community. Hit download now to hear more! [00:00:42] Ace talks about his role at TBD, advocating for decentralized technology and Web5, an open protocol for user-controlled identity and data across platforms. [00:01:25] We hear the difference between open protocol and open source, to which Ace confirms that while Web5 is open source, it is also a protocol that allows building on top of it. Also, Ace explains the relation of Web5 to blockchain. [00:02:21] Ace shares his journey to Amsterdam, starting from working at Code Sandbox, an online code editor, and moving for new experiences. [00:03:11] The conversation shifts to the topic of Nigerian developers in open source and the diaspora. Ace discusses his project ‘Made. In. Nigeria.’ highlighting the contributions of Nigerian developers both locally and abroad. [00:04:19] Ace introduces Buzz, a recent project on the list that uses OpenAI’s Whisper for audio transcription. [00:04:50] The discussion moves to Ace’s activities as a staff developer advocate and his hobbies, including YouTube and video game streaming. [00:05:46] Richard questions if creative individuals in the open source community burn out faster due to the constant need for new content. Ace agrees and discusses the pressures of project maintenance and content creation. [00:08:19] Richard talks about a designer in Australia and his YouTube video where he drew an Ibis every day for a year and what happened, then brings up the concept of repeated practice, and he asks Ace if he finds the skills gained from daily activities useful for the future. Ace sees the value in repetition for learning but doesn’t plan to repeat the exact same activities. [00:10:46] Ace previews a new version of the Made. In. Nigeria. project website focused on the stories behind the developers of the projects listed. [00:12:47] Find out where you can learn more about Ace on the web. Quotes [00:06:39] “At the end of the day we are not machines.” Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] SustainOSS Mastodon Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Mastodon Richard Littauer email Richard Littauer Sustain Richard Littauer blog email Adewale “Ace” Abati X/Twitter Adewale “Ace” Abati Website Adewale “Ace” Abati LinkedIn Adewale “Ace” Abati YouTube Adewale “Ace” Abati Instagram TBD Made. In. Nigeria. (GitHub) Made. In. Nigeria. Buzz The drawing advice that changed my life (YouTube) Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Adewale “Ace” Abati .

Guest Jacob Kaplan-Moss Panelist Richard Littauer | Amanda Casari Show Notes This episode of Sustain explores the challenges and dynamics of funding open source projects. Host Richard Littauer and co-host Amanda Casari welcome guest Jacob Kaplan-Moss, Board Member and Treasurer of the Django Software Foundation, and Security Architect at Latacora. The discussion covers Jacob’s recent blog post on the criticism faced by open source maintainers who seek compensation, highlighting the backlash encountered from seeing grants to selling T-shirts. The conversation also explores the ethical use of open source software, the importance of supporting maintainers financially, and the complexities surrounding the definition and licensing of open source software. Additionally, this episode touches on the personal connection to open source, the struggle for maintainers to find sustainable funding models, and the potential impact of high net worth individual donations. Download this episode now to hear more! [00:00:53] Richard highlights Jacob’s association with Django and his role as a security architect and brings up a blog post Jacob wrote about the experience of being an open source maintainer. He shares examples of maintainers who face undue criticism for monetizing their open source work in various ways and his thesis. Also, Richard endorses the Blue Oak Council and PolyForm Project. [00:06:24] Amanda appreciates the blog’s message about the sustainability of open source and the need to pay maintainers. Jacob recounts the largely positive reception of his post but also addresses the critical and unproductive responses, and he clarifies his stance on the importance of formal definitions of open source. [00:10:14] Richard suggests the term “Big Tent Open Source” and discusses the importance of having standards to precent open washing while also encouraging diversity in licensing. Jacob uses the term “monogamish” as an analogy for a more flexible approach to open source licensing. [00:11:46] Amanda discusses her background in releasing various types of open source work and how it sometimes differs from web apps, and touches on the complexities of open source licensing. She asks Jacob about his concerns regarding the adoption of open source in larger systems, and he shares his experience with government technology procurement, stressing the necessity of precise definitions of open source in that context. [00:16:40] Richard shifts the conversation to ethical considerations of open source work, specifically when software is used for harmful purposes, like state interventions. Jacob gives us a nuanced view on the ethical use of open source software and the impossibility of drawing a clear line between good and evil uses. [00:20:56] Jacob provides insights into the Django Software Foundation’s current scale, funding, and staffing, highlighting the significant impact even a small increase in funding could have, and he discusses the challenge of scaling funding across the vast number of open source projects to achieve broad sustainability. [00:23:16] Jacobs talks about the potential of engaging high net worth individuals and family foundations for donations as they may be more receptive than corporations. [00:24:54] Richard discusses the groups privilege and raises the question regarding giving back to open source or to the broader community, and Jacob explains he avoids judging others’ financial decisions but acknowledges his own better-off position and the personal moral obligation he feels to give back. [00:27:05] The conversation shifts to Richard asking Jacob how to support each other’s capitalist ventures while contributing to the open source community. He suggests congratulating individual successes and learning from them, while also being comfortable criticizing the systems and institutions that may be at odds with open source values. [00:28:53] Find out where you can learn more about Jacob on the internet. Quotes [00:01:40] “There’s this dynamic that happens around open source, where when someone takes money, someone always shows up to criticize them for it.” [00:04:07] “Anytime an open source maintainer figures out a way to get paid to build a lifestyle, at the very least comfortable, we should be celebrating that.” [00:06:46] “The community has coalesced around a definition of open source as defined by the OSI. I was like wait a minute, how are you conflating the open source community with one foundation? I don’t agree with this conflation of the OSI speaks for all open source.” [00:13:39] “If you work in technology for the government ling enough, eventually you come to realize that every problem is a procurement problem.” [00:18:16] “Even the MIT license is, do whatever you want, just don’t sue me.” [00:22:18] “To reach a point where I would say that open source as a whole is broadly sustainable, I would want every single project to have that level of funding associated with it.” Spotlight [00:30:11] Amanda’s spot

Guest Subomi Oluwalana Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes On today’s episode, Richard engages in a conversation with Subomi Oluwalana, Co-founder and CEO of Convoy, an innovative company specializing in open source Webhooks gateway solutions akin to Kong but focused on Webhooks, with features like rate limiting and circuit breaking. He delves into the intricacies of balancing a genuine open source philosophy with profitability drawing parallels with GitLab’s model and emphasizes the importance of community and transparency in open source projects. The discussion also covers Convoy’s positive reception in Nigeria, Subomi’s distinctive experience with Y Combinator, his thoughts on the evolving perceptions of open source as a business model, and advice for aspiring open source entrepreneurs. Press download now to hear more! [00:01:14] Subomi tells us about Convoy, and he describes Convoy’s service as analogous to Kong but for Webhooks, highlighting its functionalities. [00:01:52] Richard questions Subomi about Convoy’s open source model and what aspects remain proprietary, and he discusses the balance between being genuinely open source and profitable. [00:03:12] The conversation shifts to community importance in open source projects, with Subomi explaining the wide range of developers Convoy serves. [00:04:56] Richard sites Subomi’s blog post on sustainability and questions how Convoy maintains its product market while ensuring the sustainability of its open source project. Subomi speaks on the delicate balance of stewardship in open source, advocating for transparency and a clear understanding between the community and the company. [00:08:07] Richard steers the discussion towards the role of VC funders and Y Combinator’s support for open source projects. Subomi describes Y Combinator’s growing openness to open source companies and the changing perceptions of open source as a viable business model. [00:09:17] The conversation touches upon Subomi’s unique experience as a Nigerian company in Y Combinator, particularly as a DevTools company. [00:11:07] Subomi shares the positive response Convoy has received in Nigeria, detailing their engagement with the local tech ecosystem. [00:11:40] Richard asks for Subomi’s advice for those in the OSCA or developing countries looking to start an open source business. [00:13:06] Find out where you can learn more about Subomi and Convoy on the web. Quotes [00:02:11] “We wanted to be open source, but we also wanted to make money.” [00:05:03] “Open Source is the ultimate form of sustainability. 92% of SaaS companies fail regardless of funding or growth. Failure of your business should not bring down my infrastructure, nor force me to redesign my system architecture when I’m not ready to do so. Providing open source software is the highest form of care for sustainability for your users.” [00:06:57] “It’s very important to be transparent with the community with the direction you are taking. That, in my opinion is the biggest problem that we face as open source founders.” [00:08:15] “Y Combinator has become a good home for open source companies.” [00:09:23] “There hasn’t been any open source DevTools company from Nigeria in YC.” [00:12:32] “The abstractions you think are needed in your organization are most probably needed elsewhere.” Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] SustainOSS Mastodon Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Mastodon Richard Littauer email Richard Littauer Sustain Richard Littauer blog email Subomi Oluwalana X/Twitter Subomi Oluwalana LinkedIn Convoy Why Open Source? by Subomi Oluwalana (Convoy blog) Y Combinator Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Subomi Oluwalana.

Guest Ciarán O’Riordan Panelist Richard Littauer | Leslie Hawthorne Show Notes In this episode, host Richard Littauer and co-host Leslie Hawthorne engage with Ciarán O’Riordan, Senior Policy Advisor from Open Forum Europe (OFE), diving into the intricacies of the Cyber Resiliency Act (CRA) and its implications for the Free and Open Source Software (FOSS) community. Ciarán shares his journey from software development to policy advocacy, emphasizing the critical role of policy work in shaping the future of open source. He provides an in-depth analysis of the CRA, highlighting concerns about its initial draft, the involvement of the FOSS community in shaping its final form, and the potential challenges and opportunities it presents. The discussion also touches on other significant legislative developments in Europe, such as the Product Liability Directive and the AI Act, and their potential effects on open source software. Press download now to hear more! [00:01:25] Ciarán explains how he became a Senior Policy Advisor, his passion for policy work, tracing his journey from a software developer in Dublin to his 20-year career in Brussels focusing on policy advocacy, including his recent position at OFE. [00:06:08] Leslie asks Ciarán for a summary of the Cyber Resilience Act (CRA) and its specific implications for the free and open source software ecosystem. Ciarán contrasts the initial and final versions of the CR, detailing the changes made, the lightened obligations for free and open source software, and the ongoing compliance challenges for commercial distributions. [00:11:02] Leslie inquires how software foundation’s responsible for producing commercialized software are impacted by the Cyber Resilience Act. Ciarán explains that the final version of the Act introduces a new category called “Open Source Stewards” for entities like software foundations, which have a reduced set of obligations without fines. He also mentions the timeline for the CRA, stating in will come into force around summertime 2027, after being officially signed. [00:16:09] Richard asks about the CRA’s impact on individual non-European developers, like himself, who have repositories on platforms like GitHub or GitLab. Ciarán responds that the specifics of how the CRA will affect such developers will become clear once the standards are developed. [00:17:55] Ciarán clarifies the role of software foundations is to provide services or procedures for compliance, which may vary across different foundations. [00:19:36] Richard wonders who benefits from this Act, and Ciarán discusses the justification for the CRA, which is cost-based, comparing the cybersecurity costs with compliance costs. [00:21:31] Leslie asks about the process of creating standards for CRA compliance and how average FOSS developers can influence these standards and questions the best ways for FOSS developers to get involved in influencing the outcomes beneficial to the FOSS ecosystem. Ciarán notes that working on standards and policy is complex and compares it to contributing to software development on short notice. [00:26:07] Ciarán discusses OFE’s multi-layered structure and the FOSS community list, which serves as a base for information sharing and connection. [00:27:24] Richard questions the impact CRA on individual developers with numerous dependencies in their projects. Ciarán reassures that there is no immediate cause for panic as the CRA will not come into force until summer 2027 and many details will be clarified in the coming years. [00:28:39] Leslie shifts the discussion the Product Liability Directive (PLD) and its relevance to the FOSS ecosystem and Ciarán goes in depth about it. [00:33:36] Find out where you can learn more about Ciarán and OFE on the web. Quotes [00:04:58] “We’d love to have better cyber security, especially if it just falls from the sky.” [00:22:31] “Working on standards and policy in general is about as complex as working on software development.” [00:24:00] “In terms of getting involved, two important things: First is getting in contact with other people, and the second is the need to do some work on your own initiative without having been brought into some of these groups.” Spotlight [00:35:35] Leslie’s spotlight is the Open Source in The European Legislative Landscape devroom. [00:35:59] Richard’s spotlight is the book, “Better Living Through Birding.” [00:36:42] Ciarán’s spotlight is two books: “Thy Neighbour’s Wife” and “The Life Show.” Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] SustainOSS Mastodon Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Socials Leslie Hawthorne LinkedIn Ciarán O’Riordan LinkedIn Ciarán O’Riordan- Presentation of the Cyber Resilience Act (YouTube) OpenForum Europe OpenForum Europe Events OpenForum Europe Open Source Open Source Policy Community List Sustain Podcast-Episode 125: Astor Nummelin Carlberg of OFE on the Economic Impact of Open Source Product Liability Direc

Guest Mannie William Young Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes In this episode, host Richard invites guest Mannie Young from Ghana’s Python community to share his experiences in open source development. Mannie discusses his role as the Executive Director of the Python Software Community in Ghana and his involvement in organizing PyCon Africa. He provides insights into the significant growth of the Python community in Ghana and the various initiatives under it. He also discusses the Nigerian open source community’s vibrancy, the Python community’s development in Ghana, and reflects on his experiences at OSCA and Sustain events. Mannie touches on cultural differences affecting community sustainability and funding opportunities, and he shares insights on how to get involved with PyCon Africa and Python Ghana, highlighting the new PyClubs initiative. Hit download now to hear more! [00:00:59] Mannie mentions his active contribution to the Python software community and his roles as the Executive Director of Python Ghana and organizer of PyCon Africa. [00:02:02] Mannie discusses his experience at OSCA Fest 2023, insights from the Sustain Session, as well as Importance of Documentation in Open Source [00:06:14] Mannie explains the growth of the Python community in Ghana and its various initiatives, like PyLadies Ghana and PyData Ghana. [00:07:11] There’s a discussion about OSCA’s event in Lagos and the Sustain event. Although Mannie was not part of the organizing team this year, he shares some highlights from OSCA including great talks, diversity, and a welcoming environment. He also tells us about the Sustain workshops he attended, focusing on design and community. [00:10:04] The conversation shifts to compare the open source communities in Ghana and Nigeria, with an emphasis on social media presence and advocacy. [00:11:36] Mannie discusses the impact of being reserved on funding and opportunities in the Ghanaian open source community, along with the cultural differences affecting sustainability. [00:012:30] Richard and Mannie address a recent issue with DjangoCon and the PSF regarding discrepancies in approaches to funding and community support, along with cultural and legal considerations in Africa. [00:15:33] Richard inquires about how people can get involved with PyCon Africa, PyCon Ghana, and Mannie’s communities. Mannie explains that preparations for PyCon Africa 2024 are underway and provides contact emails and websites. [00:17:08] Find out where you can follow Mannie and his blog on the web. Quotes [00:11:08] “If you don’t blog about things, no one knows what you were doing.” Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] SustainOSS Mastodon Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Mastodon Mannie Young Website Mannie Young LinkedIn An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation (Python Africa) PyCon Ghana PyClubs PyLadies Ghana PyData Ghana OSCAfrica Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Mannie William Young.

Guest Nathan Schneider Panelist Richard Littauer | Leslie Hawthorne Show Notes In this episode of Sustain, host Richard is joined by Leslie Hawthorne, and features a discussion with guest Nathan Schneider, an assistant professor of media studies and the director of the Media Economics Design Lab at the University of Colorado Boulder, about his new book,”Governable Spaces: Democratic Design for Online Life.” The conversation explores the motivations of the book, which stems from Nathan’s experiences in running online spaces and his realization of the inadequacies in tools available for practicing democracy in these spaces. Richard, Leslie, and Nathan delve into the historical development of online spaces, the challenges in creating democratic governance online, and the potential impact on global democracy. The discussion also touches on open source sustainability, governance failures and potentials in open-source projects such as Git, and the role of protocols in shaping online communities. Additionally, Nathan argues for diverse forms of governance and shares examples of successes in opensource governance. Press download now to hear more! [00:01:40] Nathan explains the motivation for his book, “Governable Spaces.” [00:05:24] The discussion dives into the concept of the book with Richard questioning the practical existence of such spaces based on the book’s definition. Nathan confirms the book focusses on the absence of democratic infrastructures in digital lives and the lack of support for cooperatives online. [00:09:09] Richard relates the discussion on culture and democracy to media archaeology and questions how this relates to open source sustainability. Nathan acknowledges the importance of the topic and brings up the example of Git to discuss absences in open source governance. [00:13:41] Leslie asks Nathan to elaborate on his views regarding the lack of governance and democratic sharing of responsibilities within the structure that have developed, particularly in open source. Nathan responds by identifying two approaches to this issue. He first addresses the cultural aspect, and then the technical and legal aspects. [00:16:44] Leslie further inquires whether Nathan has considered in his book that the lack of governance could be due to the backgrounds of early internet designers, who were not from marginalized or vulnerable populations and thus did not prioritize governance structures. He talks about the colonization metaphor in the early internet’s language, specifically the term “homesteading,” and how it reflects a flawed understanding of democracy and governance. [00:18:18] Nathan mentions Jo Freeman’s essay, “The Tyranny of Structurelessness,” which warns against the absence of explicit governance leading to the rise of implicit governance by those already privileged. He also emphasizes that despite the dominant structures, there are examples of democratic practices in online spaces, especially among non-dominant identity groups. [00:20:33] Richard questions the robustness of democracy and brings up a point from Nathan’s book that raised some questions to him. He also wonders it was difficult for Nathan to use terms that don’t hold up under scrutiny for his book, and Nathan acknowledges the complexity of the term “feudalism,” and expresses gratitude for medieval governance structures. [00:24:50] Nathan and Richard discuss the topic of crypto, and Richard appreciates how Nathan’s book puts together the chapter on crypto with transformative justice and brings up that the book doesn’t go deep into the specifics of internet protocols. Nathan expresses a strong interest in protocols as a means of social organization and elaborates on the significance of crypto and blockchain protocols in breaking away from traditional centralized models. [00:30:30] Leslie asks Nathan about the Fediverse and federated social networking. Nathan shares his positive view on the Fediverse and discusses his experience co-founding a Mastodon server, acknowledging the potential for creating governable spaces while also recognizing the challenges in ensuring democratic governance. [00:32:40] Find out where you can get Nathan’s book for free and to purchase. Quotes [00:02:52] “The tools we have are really crappy for practicing democracy.” [00:05:57] “While working on this book, I started realizing how much my interest is in what we don’t have, it’s in the absence of our digital lives.” Spotlight [00:33:40] Leslie’s spotlight is her community devroom co-organizers for FOSDEM’24: Shirley Bailes and Laura Czajkowski. [00:34:04] Richard’s spotlight is the Vermont Arts Council. [00:34:32] Nathan’s spotlight is a group called the Exit to Community collective. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] SustainOSS Mastodon Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Socials Leslie Hawthorne LinkedIn Nathan Schneider Website Nathan Schneider X/Twitter Governable Spaces-Democratic Design f

Guest Malvika Sharan Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes In this episode, host Richard has a conversation with guest Malvika Sharan, a senior research associate and open source community manager at The Turing Way. Malvika gives fascinating insights into the journey and rationale behind The Turing Way, which is a data science guide and community collaborative project, seeking to make data science more open, accessible, and inclusive. The Turing Way is also much more than its curated guides, serving as a space for enthusiasts to exchange ideas and contribute to the project. Richard and Malvika dig deep into the importance of effective recognition for contributions, Malvika’s commitment to financial compensation within the constraints of the system, along with the persistence of volunteerism in open source work. Amid her busy year, Malvika is preparing for this chapter of The Turing Way’s journey to enter an exciting 2024 and 2025 phase as they look to engage more directly with organizations that haven’t yet adopted open source collaborative practices advocated by The Turing Way. Press download not to hear more! [00:01:17] Malvika explains The Turing Way as a collaborative book project on open science and data science, founded by Kristie Whittaker in 2019, which has evolved significantly with her as co-lead. Also, The Turing Way started as a book on GitHub aimed at making data science more open. [00:04:09] Richard clarifies that The Turing Way is a Jupyter book, and Malvika discusses the evolution of The Turing Way and its role in advocating for open source practices within data science projects. [00:05:55] Richard asks why there isn’t a specific guide for open source, and Malvika explains that The Turing Way integrates open source principles throughout and addresses concerns about open practices in sensitive areas. [00:08:07] Richard inquires about the name, The Turing Way, an Malvika recounts its origin relating to the Alan Turing Institute and the idea of reproducibility. [00:09:26] The discussion turns to community involvement in The Turing Way. Malvika talks about different types of community events and how individuals become part of the community through collaboration and self-identification. [00:12:15] The concept of “emergent strategy” from the book by Adrienne Maree Brown is explained as an influence on the community aspect of The Turing Way. [00:13:13] Richard inquires about the sustainability of The Turing Way as an open source project and its funding and staff structure. Malvika explains that it’s funded by the Alan Turing Institute and discusses the Institute’s support and staff dedicated to the project, including a new project manager. [00:16:16] Richard asks how The Turing Way collects feedback and demonstrates its impact on sustainability for projects that use it. Malvika shares experiences of community members using The Turing Way to influence their organizations and mentions collaborations like The Environmental Data Science book project. [00:18:03] Malvika talks about how she launched The Turing Way Practitioners Hub to gather and share evidence. [00:19:42] Richard questions what it means to adopt The Turing Way, and Malvika clarifies that it refers to adopting the practices of open and collaborative data science. [00:20:16] They address the breadth versus depth of The Turing Way’s content and the idea of creating sector-specific resources. [00:24:00] Malvika speaks about outreach through talks and workshops, and highlights the diversity of narratives within The Turing Way community, such as activism for [00:26:20] Richard notices the lack of Welsh language resources in The Turing Way and wonders why it’s not included. Malvika acknowledges this as a shortcoming due to underrepresentation in the community. [00:27:19] How does The Turing Way support careers of its contributors? Malvika talks about the importance of recognition, mentioning the All Contributors Bot for immediate recognition, chairing working groups, and listing significant contributors in the book. [00:30:31] Richard asks how The Turing Way supports contributors financially. Malvika stresses the value of volunteerism for skill-building and personal growth. She also talks about The Turing Way’s efforts in compensating contributors through grants and mentions the limitations of institutional funding structures. [00:33:58] Malvika tells us where you can find updates and involvement opportunities on The Turing Way, and where you can follow her online. Quotes [00:05:08] “The project itself is built on a lot of open source technology.” [00:06:00] “The Turing Way is a sneaky open source.” [00:09:48] “Sometimes it happens that you don’t think you’re a part of a community, but you are part of a community, it’s just someone didn’t tell you that you are part of the community.” [00:24:27] “I think of The Turing Way as an extension of digital commons that people should use and fare, but also maintain and support.” Spotlight [00:35:31] Richa

Guest Angie Byron Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! Richard is in Portland at FOSSY, the Free and Open Source Software Yearly conference that is held by the Software Freedom Conservancy. In this episode, we’re joined by Angie Byron, the Director of Community at Aiven, a leading open source data platform. Angie brings us insights from her role overseeing 11 open source projects, explaining how they provide managed services and security updates for several data projects, and highlighting the importance of prioritizing by impact. She also gives us a peek into their “start at the end” exercise used for goal setting and talks about the challenges of transparency and confidentiality in open source projects. Tune in now and download this episode to hear more! [00:00:39] Angie explains that Aiven is an open source data platform that provides managed services and security updates for several open source data projects such as Apache Kafka, MySQL, Postgres, Redis, and Grafana. [00:01:30] Angie shares that she’s the Director of Community at Aiven and has been there for a couple of months. She talks about her role as a meta community manager, overseeing 11 open source projects with a small team. [00:02:32] There’s a discussion by Angie on the importance of prioritizing by impact and empowering community members, and she explains the “start at the end” exercise she uses for setting their goals, and she explains using the Open Practice Library, which is a division of Red Hat. [00:07:17] Richard asks about the challenges of balancing transparency and confidentiality in open source projects. Angie shares that they’re working on a public-facing version of a roadmap with an ideation system. [00:08:23] Angie discusses three main goals of their work: increasing revenue, reducing costs, and mitigating risk. [00:09:59] Angie explains that she internalizes achievement by helping others grow, thrive, and accomplish their goals, with her success and that of her team tied to the success of others. [00:11:24] Find out where you can learn more about Aiven’s community efforts, and where you can learn more about Angie online. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] SustainOSS Mastodon Richard Littauer Twitter Software Freedom Conservancy Open OSS Angie Byron Tech Blog Angie Byron Twitter Angie Byron LinkedIn Angie Byron Mastodon Aiven Open Practice Library Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Angie Byron.

Guest Bolaji Ayodeji Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes In this episode, host Richard has a conversation with and guest, Bolaji Ayodeji, Software Engineer, Content Creator, Community Engineer, and an organizer of the OSCA (Open Source Community Africa), the biggest open source conference in Africa. Bolaji highlights the Sustain conference at OSCA, emphasizing the recent summit’s wide range of workshops, significant attendance, and the introduction of new working groups, particularly in mental health and data science. The importance of self-care and workload management in the open source community is a key topic, and Bolaji shares some strategies to maintain physical health while functioning in high-demand roles. Looking forward, they are making plans for the 2024 festival with a hope of attracting a more diverse group of attendees! Hit download now to hear more! [00:01:20] Bolaji tells us OSCA’s been around four years, with the conference itself being three years old, and he mentions the first Sustain in Africa happened in 2020, following the one in Belgium. [00:02:00] The conversation shifts to the Sustain conference at OSCA, which includes a variety of workshops. Bolaji details this year’s Sustain summit, the duration of the event, the number of working groups, and attendance. [00:03:25] Bolaji describes the format of the sessions at Sustain, his role with the timer, and the facilitation process. [00:04:21] Richard appreciates the work put into organizing the event and Bolaji shares his excitement about introducing new working groups focused on areas like mental health and data science. [00:06:33] Bolaji explains that the reports from the event are being prepared and will be published on the SustainOSS website. [00:07:19] The conversation turns to the challenge of organizing workshops on burnout and the focus of these sessions. Bolaji talks about the burnout and mental health session, discussing the importance of self-care and managing workload. [00:09:35] Richard and Bolaji discuss the scale of OSCA and the proportion of attendees who contribute to open source as a full-time job versus a side project. [00:10:31] Bolaji provides a few tips on maintaining wellbeing while contributing to open source, including prioritizing tasks, having a life outside work, and ensuring rest and relaxation. [00:12:44] Richard asks Bolaji about any surprises from the Sustain sessions, and he notes that there was a varied interest in different working groups, with more interest in some than others. [00:14:18] Will there be future events coming up? Bolaji confirms that there will be another Open Source Festival and Sustain Summit in 2024, but no specific details yet. [00:14:38] If you can’t attend but want to be involved, Bolaji mentions the Open Source Community Africa Discord server where the discussions continue, where the report will be shared, and he talks about volunteering opportunities. Quotes [00:06:01] “Sustainability is not just about the project itself, it’s about the people who manage the projects.” [00:07:37] “You’re already burnt out form your normal job, and then you have to figure how to contribute to open source.” [00:11:32] “Sometimes you need to touch the grass.” Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] SustainOSS Mastodon Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) GitHub Sustainers Website Richard Littauer Mastodon Bolaji Ayodeji X/Twitter Bolaji Ayodeji LinkedIn Bolaji Ayodeji Website SustainOSS Events Open Source Community Africa Discord OSCA Community Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Bolaji Ayodeji.

Guests Karthik Ram | James Howison Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes In this captivating episode of Sustain, host Richard welcomes returning guest, Karthik Ram, Senior Research Scientist at the Berkeley Institute for Data Science, and his colleague James Howison, an Associate Professor from the School of Information at the University of Texas, Austin. Today, they delve into their recent research report, “‘Research Software Visibility Infrastructure Priorities,” commissioned for the Australian Research Data Commons. They discuss their eight key recommendations about sustaining open source for the long haul, including ways to recognize software contribution, implement web analytics, and offer low friction ways for researchers to link software. Karthik and James also touch on the future of software citations in academic recognition systems, and the importance of universities valuing diverse academic outputs. Don’t miss this fascinating conversation! Press download now! [00:01:36] Richard brings up a paper written by Karthik and James. Karthik explains the report titled, “Research Software Visibility Infrastructure Priorities,” produced for the Australian Research Data Commons (ARDC). He describes the process of creating the report and the report’s relevance beyond Australia. [00:06:24] Richard asks how this is related to open source, and James relates the recommendations, focusing on citing software in publications and creating software bill of materials for research papers. [00:08:02] James and Karthik discuss recommendations, focusing on citing software in publications and creating software bill of materials for research papers. [00:12:02] Richard endorses the use of SBOMs for citing all software used in research, aiming to counter the issue of only popular projects getting noticed, but he questions how SBOMs account for the varying importance of different software dependencies. Karthik clarifies the SBOMs are not meant to create equal value citations for all software but to understand the scientific infrastructure that supports research. [00:15:28] Richard suggests that SBOMs could be useful in industrial contexts for security purposes and infrastructure visibility. Karthik agrees, stating that SBOMs have a broader application and were originally created for security reasons to track vulnerabilities. [00:17:41] James introduces the third recommendation to create software use infrascope as an observatory based on software mentions publications. He discusses the challenge of identifying software mentions in publications and the work done towards building comprehensive view of software in academia. [00:22:34] Karthik introduces the fourth recommendation to create detailed use cases for research tools aimed at different skill levels, addressing the challenge researchers face when selecting software tools. [00:24:29] Richard highlights the necessity of allocating time in research planning for writing documentation and tutorials, which James agrees is crucial for making software tools more accessible to researchers. [00:26:30] James discusses the fifth recommendation, which is to support existing technology for software archiving, such as Zenodo or Software Heritage, rather than creating new repositories at the institutional level. [00:28:28] Karthik talks about sixth recommendation and supporting communities of practice like hackathons and other collaborative spaces, which have shown to have a positive impact on research productivity. James describes the need for third spaces that are neither too local nor too public. Where researchers can comfortably ask questions and share insights within a focused community. [00:31:08] James introduces the seventh recommendation which is about implementing web analytics to gain insights into software usage, as citations alone do not reflect the full impact of research software. [00:33:48] James acknowledges the need for infrastructure to enhance insight from SBOMs and mentions the necessity of funding to maintain services that provide such data. [00:35:53] Richard highlights the eighth recommendation, which suggests providing an easy way for researchers to link to software alongside data submissions. James directs listeners to the Softcite GitHub organization and mentions the upcoming blog post about their report on the URSSI Blog. [00:36:16] Karthik and James tell us where you can find out more about their work and find them on the web. Quotes [00:08:40] “Absolutely every piece of software that you use in your whole stack should be cited, but I’ve had some issues with that in publications.” [00:09:04] “What we identified was that different fields have different norms for what rises to the level of contribution for actually being mentioned formally in the publication.” [00:14:40] “The researchers are experts in scientific explanation and they’re going to pick packages to mention that pertain to understanding the research that’s done in the paper, whereas the SBOM is going

Guest Heather Meeker Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes In this episode, host Richard Littauer welcomes renowned author and open source lawyer, Heather Meeker, in our first venture into video format. Heather discusses her journey from being a ‘big law’ lawyer to focusing specifically on open source matters. She talks about her latest book, From Project to Profit: How to Succeed in Commercial Open Source, and the valuable insights it provides for entrepreneurs and developers looking to transform their open source projects into successful businesses. The conversation also delves into the significance of open source, economic analysis, and the mission of the Open Source Initiative. We end with Heather sharing her all-time favorite open source project, Audacity, and why she thinks it’s a perfect example of an exquisite open source project. Press download to hear more! [00:01:49] Heather talks about her current practice and how she’s focusing on open source matters after leaving big law firms, driven by pandemic induced life choices, and she touches on her involvement with AI related issues. [00:04:18] Richard asks about Heather’s transition to writing for the public, and she details her journey of writing articles since the late 90’s and the process of creating her books. [00:06:41] We hear about Heather’s book, From Project to Profit, and it’s focus on the business potential of open source. She discusses the audience and motivation behind the book. [00:10:17] Heather describes the book’s layout: case studies, economic analysis, business models, and a final checklist for starting an open source business. [00:11:31] We learn about the checklist and the thought process behind starting an open source business. [00:13:18] Heather acknowledges that there are suggestions beyond VC funding, relating it to family businesses, which may not grow large but can provide a living and enjoyment. She tells us the book discusses setting realistic goals for open source projects and understanding when it’s appropriate to seek professional investment. [00:15:39] Richard talks about community projects that aim to be sustainable without necessarily seeking significant investments. Heather explains most small open source projects start as labors of love and discusses the motivations behind starting such projects, and she notes the commitment required to build a business. [00:19:16] Richard inquires about the fund that invests in open source projects. Heather describes OSS Capital, focusing on early-stage commercial open source software development, unique in its dedicated investment thesis. [00:21:15] Heather shares that the fund often approaches founders proactively, differing from traditional VC operations. [00:22:21] Richard is curious about equitable payment for contributors in open source projects, and Heather states they prefer to fund companies started by the projects' founders and describes the dynamic between contributors and the core team. [00:25:03] What was the toughest section of the book to write? Heather reveals the economic analysis was difficult as it required refreshing her knowledge and ensuring accuracy. She also didn’t mention specific economists but focused on basic economic principles. [00:28:15] Richard asks about common pitfalls in open source projects. Heather points out that mistakes in start-ups are not unique to open source and expands on the issue of companies taking code private due to misaligned investor interests. [00:31:15] Richard questions if misaligned investors are a by-product of capitalism, and Heather believes it’s possible to sustainably create value with open source without prioritizing it. [00:32:08] Richard asks what “open source” means to OSS Capital, and Heather explains that for their fund, open source means the core product is under a recognized open source license. She discusses the challenge of defining open source for non-software fields like AI and data. [00:35:31] Find out where you can buy Heather’s book and follow her online. Quotes [00:11:44] “One of the initial decisions that someone asked me is that they actually want to run a business around an open source project and that’s a non-trivial decision.” [00:31:24] “I do think it’s possible to run a business sustainably, create a ton of value with the open source projects, and never take it private.” Spotlight [00:37:33] Richard’s spotlight is the book, Man’s Search for Meaning. [00:38:10] Heather’s spotlight is one of her favorite authors, Primo Levi, and some books he wrote, The Periodic Table and Survival in Auschwitz. Also, another book she read called, Games Mother Never Taught You, and the open source project, Audacity. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS X/Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] SustainOSS Mastodon Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Mastodon Heather Meeker X/Twitter Heather Meeker Website Heather Meeker LinkedIn Heather Meeker YouTube From Project to Profit: How to Build a B

Guest Mohammed Shah Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes In this episode, host Richard engages in a conversation with guest Mohammed Shah about open source sustainability and the significant challenges faced by open source maintainers. Mohammed shares his background as a full-stack developer and discusses his involvement in a project aimed at reducing prediabetes risk using a WhatsApp chatbot. The discussion delves into the WhatsApp chatbot project, potential violations of WhatsApp’s terms of service, and the unique license used. Mohammed recounts the distressing experience of receiving cease and desist letters, leading to his decision to step down as the project’s maintainer. Richard and Mohammed explore the difficulties faced by open source maintainers and the need for collective representation, including the idea of forming an open source developer union. Mohammed also tells us about a climate-related initiative he’s working on and a website he set up called CVE.Earth, for tracking corporate environmental destruction. Press download now to hear more! [00:01:03] Mohammed introduces himself as a full-stack developer and talks about his involvement in a project called Antler, aimed at reducing the risk of prediabetes in specific communities using a WhatsApp chatbot. [00:02:55] Mohammed explains the project, which involved creating a CLI tool that allows users to interact with their own WhatsApp accounts programmatically. [00:04:02] The discussion touches on the potential violation of WhatsApp terms of service and how many projects in the space could be in violation. [00:06:19] Richard asks about the license Mohammed used to put this code up. He explains the unique license he sued for the project, which allows for specific purposes but not for nefarious activities, and Richard mentions Mohammed’s Hippocratic + Do Not Harm License. [00:07:35] Mohammed describes the distressing experience of receiving cease and desist letters which led him to step down as the project’s maintainer. [00:09:27] Richard discusses the stress and challenges open source maintainers face when receiving cease and desist letters and the lack of resources to respond effectively. [0011:05] Mohammed shares that the project is on hold, and he cannot transfer it to others due to the legal risk. [00:12:24] We hear Mohammed’s idea of forming an open source developer union to deal with unique legal cases affecting a small group of developers but with broader implications. This union could help address legal challenges and protect open source developers. He emphasizes the need for collective power in the open source community, like other worker unions or collectives that have the ability to advocate for the rights of their members. [00:13:58] Mohammed expresses that he wishes he had not put himself at risk with the project but defends open source work as a valid and important endeavor. He believes in the significance of open source work and its impact on a wide range of people. [00:15:22] The discussion delves into the role of large tech companies as gatekeepers and how they exert control over access to their APIs. Mohammed suggests that these companies should provide APIs as public infrastructure for interoperability. [00:17:54] Mohammed mentions a new project related to climate and corporate environmental responsibility that he’s been working on, and a website he set up called CVE.Earth, for tracking corporate environmental destruction. [00:18:58] Find out where you can reach out to Mohammed on the web. Spotlight [00:19:46] Richard’s spotlight is Tom ‘spot’ Callaway, an awesome developer. [00:20:36 Mohammed’s spotlight is two books: The Creative Act: A Way of Being and Silent Coup: How Corporations Overthrew Democracy. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS X/Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] SustainOSS Mastodon Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Mastodon Mohammed Shah X/Twitter CVE.Earth Antler Hippocratic + Do Not Harm (H-DNH) Version 1.1 by Mohammed Shah Tom ‘spot’ Callaway X/Twitter Sustain Podcast-Episode 52 with special guest Tom ‘spot’ Callaway The Creative Act: A Way of Being by Rick Rubin Silent Coup: How Corporations Overthrew Democracy by Claire Provost and Matt Kennard Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Mohammed Shah.

Guest Joseph Castle Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes In this episode, Richard welcomes Joe Castle, Executive Advisor for Strategic Partnerships and Technology at SAS, and he was previously featured on an episode in the FOSSY 2023 series podcasts. Today, they engage in conversations about various aspects of open source and Code.gov, exploring its history, budget changes, and challenges. Joe provides an overview of SAS Institute, its role in analytics and AI software, and its presence in the federal government. The discussion dives into the federal source code policy, its key aspects, and the allocation of the federal IT budget. They explore the idea of making government source code open source and the challenges associated with it, and there’s a discussion on the importance of supporting open source projects and various initiatives in different countries and labs. Press download now to hear more! [00:01:23] Joe gives us an overview of SAS Institute, its focus on analytics and AI software, and its presence in the federal government and other sectors. [00:02:08] Joe talks about his background and how he became an advocate for open source software, especially Python, in both personal and professional context. He discusses his role at SAS, which involves promoting open source integration and education. [00:06:41] We learn about the history of Code.gov, which was born out of the U.S. federal source policy in 2016, and then Joe explains the three key aspects of the federal source code policy: creating a source code policy, updating acquisition language, and publishing an inventory of source code, including at least 20% as open source software. [00:10:03] Richard mentions the size of the federal IT budget and asks about the allocation of the remaining 93% of the budget. Joe explains that the 93% of the budget goes towards labor, infrastructure, commodity IT, and various IT-related expenses. [00:14:31] Richard inquires about the availability of a manifest listing all open source packages on Code.gov, and Joseph explains that Code.gov provides agency inventories of their source code, and each agency can decide what to include or exclude from the list based on various factors, including security. [00:16:31] Joe discusses his involvement with Code.gov, which started when he worked at the White House and volunteered to help implement the federal source code policy. [00:19:21] Richard asks about the budget for Code.gov and its changes over the years and Joe clarifies that Code.gov had a budget of about a million dollars a year for platform, staff, and related expenses. [00:20:09] Joe discusses the rise and fall of Code.gov, including policy changes and a decrease in funding, resulting in downsizing and limited maintenance of the website and code. [00:22:30] The role of the CIO at OMB is brought up and Joe explains that the focus of the federal CIO can shift with changing priorities and administrations. [00:23:23] Richard asks about how to reinvigorate Code.gov and whether it’s possible to influence the CIO to prioritize it. Joe mentions an interaction with a Senate committee staffer and suggests that getting attention from key decision-makers is essential for pushing such initiatives. [00:27:34] Richard wonders if there are any internal efforts to track multiple contracts for the same vendors and improve code management. Joe tells us he’s not aware of specific internal efforts but mentions the existence of similar projects in other places. [00:31:47] Joe notes that there weren’t discussions about financially supporting open source projects at Code.gov, and the focus was on making the code available to the public and raising awareness of its existence. [00:32:52] Richard discusses the importance of supporting open source projects used by the government and mentions governmental efforts like the Sovereign Tech Fund in Germany. Joe talks about how certain agencies and labs, such as NASA and the Department of Energy, fund open source projects. He also mentions that he once considered making Code.gov an open source project separate from the government but didn’t proceed with the idea, and he mentions the GitHub Government website. [00:37:06] Find out where you can follow Joe on the internet. Quotes [00:07:06] “Code.gov was born out of the U.S. Federal source code policy.” [00:18:37] “It’s basically holistically the OSPO for the U.S. federal government.” Spotlight [00:37:45] Richard’s spotlight is a book series he read called, Bloody Jack by L.A. Meyer. [00:38:27] Joe’s spotlight is some great books he read: The Work by Wes Moore, Still Standing by Larry Hogan, and Bridgebuilders by William D. Eggers and Donald F. Kettl. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] SustainOSS Mastodon Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Mastodon Joseph Castle Twitter Joseph Castle, PhD LinkedIn Sustain Podcast-Episode 197: FOSSY 2023 with Joe Castle SAS Code.gov Data.gov Defense Finan

Guest Dr. Laura Dornheim Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes On today’s episode of Sustain, Richard welcomes Dr. Laura Dornheim, the Chief Digital Officer (CDO) of the city of Munich, who discusses her coding background, role as the CDO, and Munich’s digital initiatives. The conversation dives into Munich’s past experience with the Linux based LiMux project, and its strong support for open source today. Dr. Dornheim’s balanced approach to open source, collaborations with Berlin, and the city’s open source code publication are highlighted. The discussion covers Germany’s Sovereign Tech Fund, tech understanding, and the EU’s Cyber Resilience Act. Dr. Dornheim shares her perspective on dealing with challenges in her role, her optimism, and the importance of public money and public code. Hit download now to hear more! [00:01:17] Dr. Dornheim clarifies her coding experience and that she learned to code at a young age but never worked as a developer. [00:02:40] Dr. Dornheim explains her role as the CDO of Munich, being responsible for all tech in the city, overseeing various digital initiatives, and moving towards a smarter city. [00:03:55] She discusses the city’s interactions with its citizens, such as applying for passports or changing addresses through online services, and she mentions their current project of creating a digital twin of the city. [00:06:00] The discussion shifts to the role of open source in the city of Munich, as Laura talks about Munich’s ambitious open source project to replace Microsoft Office with Linux (LiMux) and its subsequent return to Microsoft. [00:08:54] We hear Dr. Dornheim’s approach to open source, emphasizing a balanced perspective and bridging the gap between open source supporters and opponents. She highlights successful open source implementations in the city, such as open source tools for online forms and appointment scheduling at the citizen’s office, developed collaboratively with Berlin. [00:12:00] Richard asks about the breakdown of services that could be seen as state or federal level I the U.S. compared to Munich. Dr. Dornheim explains that in Germany, services like applying for passports are managed a local level, with 11,000 communities responsible for such processes. [00:15:17] Richard asks how Munich ensures that the open source software it uses can be contributed to by external individuals or entities. Dr. Dornheim mentions launching an open source sabbatical to pay individuals to work on open source projects, promoting more external contributions. She also tells us where Munich’s open source code is published, primarily on GitHub and the Code platform launched by the public administration in Germany. [00:17:42] Richard inquires about the potential for other states to contribute to Munich’s open source projects, and Dr. Dornheim explains that they have both fully open projects and smaller ones that are published but may not receive external contributions. [00:19:15] Dr Dornheim addresses a question Richard brings up about Germany’s Sovereign Tech Fund and the push for self-sufficiency in tech. She views it as a marketing strategy for open source, emphasizing the importance of reducing dependency on a few big players. [00:21:10] Richard mentions the EU’s Cyber Resilience Act and inquires about the concerns related to liability in open source software, and Dr. Dornheim emphasizes that the problem isn’t liability but the ability to address issues and vulnerabilities. [00:22:46] What are some things that Dr. Dornheim is struggling with? She shares some difficulties they face such as dealing with 800 schools and day care places that run their own services, and the challenge of transitioning local politicians away from paper-based processes. [00:26:13] Dr. Dornheim mentions that she came to open source through her engagement in politics around digital and tech issues, emphasizing the importance of public money and public code. [00:26:55] Find out where can you interact with the City of Munich’s digital office. Quotes [00:06:57] “If you try to brute force 40,000 people to an operating system that they’re not used to not only make friends, let’s put in that way.” [00:07:42] “Today, open source is more alive and more supported in the city of Munich than ever. We have our own OSPO that we’re building up and growing.” [00:16:00] “We are launching an open source sabbatical where we really want to pay people wherever they are currently employed.” [00:18:44] “The whole aim behind open software is to make public administration more transparent and interactive because I really think it’s important that we lower this perceived barrier between the people and the state.” Spotlight [00:28:02] Richard’s spotlight is Raphaël Nussbaumer, and eBird reviewer in Switzerland. [00:28:42] Dr. Dornheim’s spotlight is Miriam Seyffarth from the Open Source Business Alliance in Berlin. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] SustainOSS Mastodon Open Coll

Guest Chad Whitacre Panelists Richard Littauer | Abby Cabunoc Mayes | Leslie Hawthorne | Justin Dorfman YouTube For this episode, we also recorded video! You can watch here. Show Notes In this episode of Sustain, host Richard Littauer is joined co-hosts Abby, Leslie, and Justin to talk with special guest, Chad Whitacre, co-founder of SustainOSS and Sentry’s Head of Open Source. Today, Chad sheds light on Sentry’s contributions in open source funding programs, the challenges, successes, and plans for progression. Chad also introduces FOSS Funder, a platform encouraging companies to give back to open source and shares his unique approach to business cards that has left a tangible imprint on the community. Hit download now to hear more! [00:01:47] Chad is introduced, we hear his history with open source platforms and Sentry’s programs for community engagement, compliance, and funding. [00:02:30] Justin asks Chad about changes since his last appearance, particularly Sentry’s 150k open source funding initiative, and Chad describes Sentry’s journey, the systematic approach to funding open source projects, and the growth of Sentry’s annual funding program from 150k to 500k. [00:06:03] Justin interjects with a question about the math used to determine funding, leading Chad to reflect on the economic value of open source and the sense of unfairness in the community about companies not giving back. He continues to explain the reasoning behind funding figures. [00:08:35] The conversation turns to defining the right amount to give, with discussions on per-engineer contributions and industry metrics for sponsorship. [00:11:02] Richard asks about Sentry’s employee count, office locations, and if they pay a living wage, to which Chad confirms they do, and details Sentry’s office distribution and company policies. [00:11:50] Richard raises a question about the focus of Sentry’s financial contributions, wondering if open source practitioners are the most appropriate recipients compared to other groups, and Chad states that Sentry does have contractors and they are paid adequately. He emphasizes that Sentry’s founders come from open an open source background, and the company still views itself as aligned with open source values. [00:14:00] Chad clarifies that when Sentry gives money to open source, it’s viewed as giving back for value received. He draws a distinction between charitable giving and investing in software, suggesting that the open source funding program is more about paying for the value received from open source software rather than charity. [00:17:23] Chad speaks about the provision of public goods, touching on taxes and shame as mechanisms, and the role of corporate social validation. [00:18:38] Leslie raises concern about the divestment from open source by corporations and the impact on the open source maintainer ecosystem. Chad discusses the multiple roles of OSPOs beyond funding and the cultural importance of open source at Sentry, and he tells the story of Sentry’s attempt to support every project on GitHub through GitHub sponsors and the challenges encountered. [00:22:57] Chad acknowledges the effort required to sponsor every project, mentioning the help of thanks.dev crew and the need for better tools to simplify the process. He also introduces FOSS Funders, a platform started by Dwayne O’Brien, and explains the group’s activities and its Slack community. [00:27:25] Abby inquires about how companies can join FOSS Funders and get their logos featured. Chad details how companies can participate in FOSS Funders through platforms, and the next phases of FOSS Funders. [00:29:12] Abby shares how her and Chad met and making his special business cards which are pennies with a logo punched into them. [00:32:14] Find out where you can learn more about Chad and his work on the web. He also touches on the connection and the need for honest conversations about sustainability in the community. Quotes [00:05:26] “The open source community is not monolithic.” [00:06:42] “There’s all these idealistic youths who put all of this software out there into the world, and then waking up ten years later totally burned out because they poured themselves out writing all this open source software.” [00:09:20] “We need other companies to join us.” [00:09:44] “We also need a better name for the non-commercial, sponsorable part of the community.” [00:09:57] “Let’s make this real, let’s make this sustainable.” [00:10:06] “It needs to be weird for companies not to do what Sentry is doing.” [00:12:43] “If we’re going to do this Pledge1%, giving to open source is part of that.” [00:13:09] “Open source is core to our company culture. And also, we’ve been there.” [00:14:40] “Personal opinion: I think this line-item should be software, and not charity.” [00:15:38] “Public goods are IOR: Invest On Return.” [00:17:29] “Public goods are provisioned in two ways: taxes or shame.” [00:23:00] “We need to start telling stories about the companies t

Guests Carlos Martinez-Ortiz | Shoaib Sufi Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes In this episode, Richards welcomes his two guests, Carlos Martinez, Scientific Community Manager at the Netherlands eScience center, and Shoaib Sufi, Community Lead at the Software Sustainability Institute. They both represent a vibrant community dedicated to the long-term sustainability of research software and open source projects in the sciences. Today, our discussion navigates the “WoSSS” (Workshop on Sustainable Software Sustainability) and its evolution, taking a deep dive into the challenges and solutions surrounding software sustainability. They explore the crossroads of open source and research software and the importance of funding for such sustainable efforts. Additionally, they reflect on the future of workshops, hinting at potential refinements to address evolving community needs. This episode emphasizes the need for knowledge exchange, networking, and community building while contemplating future pathways in this evolving field. Hit download now to hear more! [00:01:25] The WoSSS refers to efforts to look at the long-term sustainability of software research and other sectors. It involves various organizations and alliances interested in software sustainability. [00:03:15] Shoaib discusses the relationship between open source software and research software, highlighting that they share common principles and methods, though they may not always be driven by the same goals. [00:04:12] Shoaib provides clarification about the funding of the Software Sustainability Institute, explaining that it’s funded by multiple UK research and innovation funding agencies. [00:05:00] Carlos explains that the Netherlands eScience center is the national center for research software expertise in the Netherlands, focusing on developing research software with a strong preference for open source licensing. [00:06:32] Shoaib and Carlos discuss the origins and evolution of the WoSSS, which started as a knowledge exchange workshop and expanded to cover various topics related to research software sustainability, preservation, and infrastructure. [00:08:43] Richard inquires about the types of community members who participate in WoSSS workshops. Shoaib mentions that the workshops aim to bring together funders, leaders, middle managers, developers, and individuals interested in research software sustainability to foster discussions. [00:10:19] Carlos explains the concept of “sustained software sustainability” as a pyramid with research software at the top, followed by the need to sustain it and the creation of a research landscape that supports long-term software sustainability efforts. [00:13:35] Shoaib mentions that the workshops aim to benefit participants by offering opportunities for them to contribute and discuss topics, crating reports to recognize their contributions. He explains that participants include individuals empowered by their universities to share information within their institutions. [00:17:41] Richard questions whether the participants who attend these workshops are often empowered by their institutions to share the knowledge they gain, and he also asks about the tools provided to help them communicate with researchers. Carlos emphasizes the importance of networking opportunities during the workshops, where participants can connect with people in the field who share similar challenges and goals. [00:19:12] Shoaib discusses the role of Research Software Engineering (RSE) groups at universities, which often perform functions similar to OSPOs in terms of supporting research software development and training. He provides an example of a case where a research group decided to use a restrictive open source license to retain control of their IP for commercial purposes. [00:22:54] Shoaib summarizes the key takeaways from the workshops, including the importance of FAIR Principles for Research Software and the need for ongoing software sustainability. [00:25:04] Shoaib explains that there’s been a desire to merge WSBI and WoSSS but that the future direction of WoSSS is being considered. Carlos reflects on how evolving landscape of similar workshops and initiatives has prompted the need for reflection on the future direction of WoSSS. Shoaib emphasizes the need to determine the purpose and audience of WoSSS in the future. [00:29:13] We learn that WoSSS is currently in a period of reflection, and future directions for it are being considered. [00:32:49] Shoaib shares final thoughts and talks about the project around research software quality, which is bringing various research infrastructures together. He also mentions the hidden REF. Spotlight [00:34:30] Richard’s spotlight is Ross Mounce, Director of Open Access Programs at Arcadia. [00:35:04] Carlos’s spotlight is Hedy, a programming language for teaching children how to get into programming. [00:35:49] Shoaib’s spotlight is The People and Projects Podcast, the TalkPython Podcast, and

Guest Kyle Wiens Panelist Richard Littaueropen-source Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! Richard is in Portland at FOSSY, the Free and Open Source Software Yearly conference that is held by the Software Freedom Conservancy. In this exciting episode, Richard welcomes Kyle Wiens, the driving force behind iFixit, a large open source collection of user-generated repair manuals. Born out of a response to Apple’s stringent copyright regime on their service manuals, iFixit has grown into the most extensive collection of medical service manuals for hospitals. Kyle shares his journey from combating copyright laws to working on right to repair laws for everyday devices like tractors. From discussing locks on toasters to exploring the use of Linux and WINE on John Deere tractors, Kyle offers an insightful glimpse into the world of repair, open source contributions, and the potential futures of hardware. Press download now to hear more cool stuff! [00:00:46] Kyle explains that iFixit is a large open source collection of repair manuals. The manuals are created by the users, not sources from other companies, and they are the largest collection of medical service manuals for hospitals, from ventilators to vital sign monitors since the COVID-19 pandemic. [00:02:08] Kyle explains that iFixit is a for-profit company that sells parts and tools. He also mentions his friendship with Scotty Allen from Strange Parts. [00:03:08] Richard brings up the topic of legal implications surrounding iFixit and Kyle explains that while they do receive takedown notices, they’ve never been sued. He discusses how they deal with these notices, providing a detailed analysis of fair use. [00:05:27] Richard asks about LEGO building guides on iFixit, to which Kyle mentions a separate website dedicated to it. [00:06:04] We hear about the “Right to Repair” laws they are advocating for in various states. Kyle discusses the success of passing four bills in three states, focusing on electric wheelchairs and tractors, a consumer electronics bill passes in New York, and a law passed in Minnesota. [00:09:00] Kyle tells us his perspective about the intersection between right to repair and open source. [00:11:07] Richard asks Kyle if he collaborates with groups like Software Freedom Conservancy to circumvent these protections, and he confirms and gives an example of their work with “Right to Repair” laws for tractors. [00:12:46] What’s exciting for Kyle about this conference? Kyle expresses optimism about the conference and the potential of transferring the momentum from the right to repair movement to the open source world. [00:13:33] Kyle suggests that open source contributors can help by assigning their copyrights to the Conservancy, aiming to get GPL software into as much physical hardware as possible. [00:14:46] You can go to iFixit.com for guidance on fixing their devices and find out where you can follow Kyle online. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] Open Collective-SustainOSS Contribute SustainOSS Mastodon Richard Littauer Twitter Software Freedom Conservancy Open OSS Kyle Wiens Website Kyle Wiens Twitter Kyle Wiens LinkedIn iFixit Strange Parts The Repair Association The End of Ownership: Why You Need to Fight America’s Copyright Laws by Kyle Wiens (Wired) Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Kyle Wiens.

Guest Dr. Bryan G. Behrenshausen Panelist Leslie Hawthorn | Abby Cabunoc Mayes Show Notes In this episode, hosts Leslie Hawthorn from Red Hat and Abby Cabunoc Mayes from GitHub, welcome Dr. Bryan G. Behrenshausen, a Senior Open Source Program Manager at GitLab. This episode delves deep into the world of open source, discussing its importance, challenges, and how companies like GitLab and GitHub are navigating and supporting the open source community. Bryan showcases GitLab’s initiatives to support open source communities, touching on programs like the GitLab for Open Source, and the exclusive GitLab Open Source Partners program. Throughout the conversation topics like guidelines for diving into open source projects, the intrinsic link between open source and business strategy, and the role of effective social interaction in the open source realm are explored. The significance of maintaining transparent documentation, policies, and processes in an open source environment is also emphasized. Press download now to hear more! [00:01:29] Bryan tells us about his role at GitLab, where he operates at the interface between GitLab, the company, and the broader GitLab community, focusing on open source contributions. [00:03:23] Leslie inquires about specific support mechanisms GitLab offers to open source maintainers and Bryan mentions two significant programs at GitLab: The GitLab for Open Source program and The GitLab Open Source Partners program. He lists some major projects associated with the GitLab Open Source Partners program like Debian, Arch, Fedora, etc. [00:08:45] Bryan emphasizes the importance of sustainability and how being a part of a community can provide support, best practices, and even commiseration. [00:10:01] Abby points out the challenges of community interaction on platforms like GitHub and asks Bryan about the impact of his efforts on community building at GitLab. Bryan acknowledges the challenges and notes that while they’re seeing progress in community building, it’s an ongoing effort. [00:11:38] We hear how Bryan is handling open source projects that just need a private repository for security releases. [00:12:38] Leslie mentions the significance of sharing policies and processes publicly, particularly in Europe, given the legislative environment. Bryan explains how GitLab implements a management model called “team ops” for best practices in an all-remote environment. [00:13:33] Leslie stresses the importance of documentation, and Bryan shares that GitLab is active on Discord, and he tells the story of how the community started the server and later handed it to GitLab. [00:15:33] Abby praises both GitLab and Red Hat for running open source projects and documentation. Bryan highlights the challenges and decisions behind using Discord. [00:16:50] Bryan provides context for the open leadership assessment and talks about how open source principles impact organizational culture and design, he mentions he’ll be speaking with Heidi Hess von Ludewig about one of his favorite projects at All Things Open-2023, and we hear about the “open source way,” which is another project he worked on. [00:20:58] Leslie raises the topic of interplay between work in communities and the responsibilities to employers, and Bryan explores the complexities of working in open source, the challenges, and frictions when balancing between community engagement and organizational objectives. [00:24:26] Abby asks if GitLab is offering guidelines for diving into open source projects. Bryan responds that GitLab’s handbook provides some basic guides but lacks a full-fledged open source programs office. [00:25:42] Leslie discusses a trend in technology industry where companies scale back on their open source program office staff, especially during rough economic times, and Bryan talks about the intertwined nature of open source and business strategy in certain organizations, and how the open source strategy is essential from top to bottom. [00:28:27] Leslie suggests that achieving business outcomes can be smoother with the right tools, including the skills for effective social interactions in the open source realm. Quotes [00:03:45] “We owe it to the open source ecosystem of which we are a part to make sure that ecosystem is healthy and vibrant and has what it needs.” [00:19:45] “I just think that open source communities are really fascinating Petri dishes of self-organization and self-governance.” [00:24:02] “Participation in open source projects is all but unavoidable today as an organization.” Spotlight [00:29:32] Bryan’s spotlight is his favorite open source project, WordGrinder. [00:31:02] Abby’s spotlight is Random Name Picker for Lucky Draw. [00:31:44] Leslie’s spotlight is reading a chapter on ‘Communication Channels’ from the guidebook, The Turing Way. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] SustainOSS Mastodon Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Twitter Leslie

Guests Amanda Casari | Julie Ferraioli | Juniper Lovato Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes In today’s episode of Sustain, Richard is joined by guests, Amanda Casari, devrel engineer and open source researcher at Google Open Source Programs Office, Julie Ferraioli, an independent open source strategist, researcher, practitioner, and Partner at Open Chapters, and Juniper Lovato, Director of partnerships and programs at the Vermont Complex Systems Center at UVM and Data Ethics researcher. Amanda, Julia, and Juniper join the discussion, bringing a wealth of expertise in the open source domain. The conversation gravitates towards an article co-authored by the guests, striking a balance between open source software and open source ecosystems research. The episode dives deep into the “10 simple things” format of the article, the crucial importance of collective conversations, and a keen exploration of open source researchers. Hit download now to hear more cool stuff! [00:01:29] Richard tells us why he invited our three guests today and he talks about their previous accomplishments and backgrounds. [00:02:17] Our discussion moves to the title of a new article co-authored by the guests. We hear about the intended audience of the article and the distinction made between open source software and open source ecosystems research. [00:03:31] Richard brings up where the article fits in the academic landscape, and it’s revealed to be more editorial than research. [00:04:17] There’s a conversation about the “10 simple things” format, its origin, and the motivation behind it. They put an emphasis on the need for collective conversation and the value of sharing experiences and knowledge. [00:07:28] Richard brings up the idea of open source researchers and mentions various figures and institutions involved in open source research. Juniper clarifies the target audience for the article and its intentions, Julie shares her perspective from the industry side and the importance of a critical framework, and Amanda expresses her emotional response to some researchers’ approach towards the open source community. [00:12:03] Julie discusses the emotional challenges that inspired the paper’s best practices emphasizing not repeating negative behaviors, and Juniper notes tension in research between benefits for the community and for the researchers emphasizing understanding norms and values for studying open source communities. [00:13:52] Richard mentions there are nine principles in the paper and asks about the principle regarding treating open source ecosystems as systems “in production.” Amanda highlights the importance of considering the real-world impact of research in open source and mentions an incident where a university was banned from the Linux kernel due to disruptive changes. [00:16:33] Julie emphasizes the potential broader impact on industry systems when modifying open source systems and she raises the point that tampering with open source systems might inadvertently affect critical infrastructure. Amanda comments on the increasing cybersecurity concerns around open source. [00:19:18] Richard brings up a real-world example of a university introducing bugs to the Linux kernel and points out the need for considering ethical implications beyond just production systems. [00:20:59] Richard draws parallels between addressing these issues and addressing racism, and Juniper adds that the scientific process is ongoing and should evolve with technology and societal values. [00:21:53] Julie describes the complexity of open source funding and compensation and points out the challenge in understanding motivations and expectations of open source participants. [00:24:07] Amanda emphasizes the difficulty of summarizing each section, noting that each one could be a chapter or book and she expresses her concerns about not just individual equity but organizational equity. [00:25:59] Juniper raises the issue of invisible labor in open source. [00:26:39] Julie highlights the importance of recognizing that open source repository data might not capture all the activity and contributions made by community members. [00:27:37] Amanda discusses the challenges and importance of capturing data, especially when it may put individuals at risk. Juniper stresses the importance of involving communities in the research process and gaining their consent, ensuring their dignity, security, and privacy. [00:29:49] Julie discusses the complexities of identity within the open source community, highlighting that individuals can hold multiple identities in this space. [00:31:10] Richard adds that the insight shared are not just for open source researchers but also for anyone involved in the open source ecosystem. He emphasizes the need to be aware of biases and the importance of understanding the data one works with. [00:32:22] Richard prompts a summary of the main points in the paper, which are read by our guests. [00:34:48] Find out where you can learn more about

Guest Emily Omier Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! Richard is in Portland at FOSSY, the Free and Open Source Software Yearly conference that is held by the Software Freedom Conservancy. Today, we chat with Emily Omier, a revenue strategy and positioning consultant who helps open source startups accelerate revenue and community growth. Based in Paris, Emily lends her expertise to primarily European startups, helping them navigate their unique challenges and carve out a profitable strategy. We discuss her approach, which connects perfectly with her marketing background with company and product alignment in the open source space. We also touch on the critical role open source workers play in business profitability. Press download now to hear more! [00:00:47] Emily explains her role as a consultant who works with open source businesses to help them clarify their commercial strategy and positioning. [00:01:24] Emily reveals that she’s originally from Portland but currently resides in Paris. She serves both the European and American market and shares why she finds the European ecosystem more interesting. [00:03:00] Richard inquires about Emily’s approach to improving profit margins for European startups through open source strategy. Emily explains that her clients are typically companies that have already decided to be open. [00:05:56] Emily tells us that her ideal clients are relatively small startups that have some revenue and a commercial offering. [00:07:21] The topic of marketing comes up and Emily explains that although her background is in marketing, her current role involves various parts of a company, not just marketing. She discusses the importance of knowing the company’s identity, understanding the target user for the opens source project, and aligning product development with the company’s story. [00:10:06] We find out that Emily works mainly with founders and has never worked directly with a community or an Open Source Program Office (OSPO). She emphasizes the importance of open source workers in big businesses being able to articulate how their work in open source contributes to the company’s bottom line. [00:11:45] How did Emily get into this field if she hasn’t worked with open source communities? She goes in depth how she was working in marketing with Kubernetes companies in the cloud native sphere, where she found a significant overlap with open source communities. [00:13:43] Find out where you can learn more about Emily online. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] SustainOSS Mastodon Richard Littauer Twitter Software Freedom Conservancy Open OSS Emily Omier Website The Business of Open Source Podcast Emily Omier Twitter Emily Omier LinkedIn The New Stack-Entrepreneurship for Engineers Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Emily Omier.

Guest Karen Sandler Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! Richard is in Portland at FOSSY, the Free and Open Source Software Yearly conference that is held by the Software Freedom Conservancy. In this episode, Richard is joined by Karen Sandler, Executive Director at Software Freedom Conservancy. Today, they discuss the various aspects of organizing a conference, emphasizing ethical considerations, precautions taken, software freedom, community involvement, GNOME pronunciation, and highlight community contributions and the balance between using open source and proprietary software. They explore topics like DRM, exemptions, coordination on renewals, the challenge of “trafficking provision,” and the global influence of U.S. law. Hit download now to hear more! [00:00:35] Karen discusses the challenges of organizing the conference but praises her staff. [00:01:18] Richard and Karen discuss conference inspiration, focus on software freedom, and avoiding corporate noise. There’s an overview of talks and speakers, and a discussion on the correct pronunciation of “GNOME.” [00:03:46] Karen mentions attending the keynote session, Red Hat Enterprise Linux, and reflects on the complexity of organizing with ethical considerations. [00:04:22] Richard asks Karen if there’s any controversies she’s had to weather at the conference, and she talks about COVID precautions, collaboration with charities, ethical practices in organizing, and how high school students have contributed to the event’s success. [00:06:53] Richard questions Karen about the balance between using open source and proprietary software for practicality. Karen emphasizes the need for thoughtful decisions about using proprietary software, reflecting on the realistic choices to ensure software freedom. [00:09:14] Karen mentions having a nice coffee chat session with Kyle Wiens, and working together on 1201 materials, referring to the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). She further discusses about how the 1201 provision affects people. [00:11:27] The conversation takes a shift to discussing the trafficking term. They begin discussing potential legislation and the frustrations around applying for limited exemptions. [00:12:28] Richard questions why they focus so much on U.S. law instead of working in a country without restrictive laws. Karen explains the global impact of the U.S. law and how other countries often follow suit. [00:14:15] They discuss the lobbying impact of big companies and how they can influence laws even in small countries. Also, Karen shares being grateful for the ability to criticize and work within the system, the idea of working in another place, and the need for a global movement. [00:15:25] Find out where you can learn more about Software Freedom Conservancy and Karen. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] SustainOSS Mastodon Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Twitter Karen Sandler Twitter Software Freedom Conservancy Open OSS GNOME Digital Millennium Copyright Act Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Karen Sandler.

Guest Sophia Vargas Panelist Richard Littauer | Leslie Hawthorn Show Notes In this episode, Richard and Leslie welcome guest Sophia Vargas, a Researcher and Program Manager at Google. Sophia’s journey from data center research to the open source ecosystem is explored, and the tactical support she provides to projects. She highlights the challenge of understanding contributors’ motivations, particularly in the context of financial incentives. The episode explores Google’s role in open source, delves into the complexities of funding and motivation, and uncovers the often unseen “glue work” that binds open source communities together. Tune in to gain insights into the dynamic world of open source sustainability and the quest of a balanced ecosystem. Download this episode now! [00:02:07] Sophia explains her transition from data center infrastructure research to open source ecosystem research. She discusses her role in understanding how Google interacts with open source and supports projects. [00:05:26] Sophia emphasizes the importance of understanding motivation in open source contributions, noting that financial incentives aren’t the primary driver. She discusses Google’s role in open source and its investments in various programs and engagements. Her research also delves into understanding why people contribute to open source and what keeps them engaged. [00:09:42] We hear how Sophia overlaps between her work in the CHAOSS community and her research at Google, particularly in metrics and understanding project dynamics. [00:12:16] Richard raises a question on how open source projects can receive funding without becoming overly dependent on it. Sophia explains that she’s actively researching this topic to understand the dynamics of funding and motivation in open source. She mentions her previous research has focused on contributors’ motivations, and now she’s investigating how money impacts those motivations. [00:16:48] Sophia emphasizes that the core focus of her research is on understanding individual contributors and how money might affect their involvement. She points out the challenges of determining the impact of different funding levels on contributors’ behavior. [00:18:25] She mentions the potential impact of formal agreements and expectations tied to funding and the discussion touches on how projects can shift from being hobbies to more professional roles due to funding. [00:20:31] Richard asks about existing research in fields beyond open source that might shed light on this issue, and Sophia mentions volunteer energy research and discusses the gaps in understanding the complex relationship between individuals, their motivations, and funding. [00:22:49] Richard raises the questions of whether the motivations of young individuals, particularly from the global south, are aligned with contributing to open source, and Sophia shares her thoughts on this explaining how it’s difficult to measure. [00:26:51] Leslie discusses the challenges of quantifying and acknowledging engagement that doesn’t manifest as code commits or traditional contributions. Sophia adds to this highlighting the “glue work” that often goes unnoticed, including tasks related to communication, event management, and coordination. She talks about ideas such as adapting processes to better track non-coding activities and using existing communication channels to reveal hidden contributions. [00:33:13] Richard wonders how one can effectively limit and define the scope of open source given its extensive nature. Sophia cites a research effort by the Complex Systems Center that aimed to count open source activity outside of GitHub to highlight the ecosystem’s size, and she emphasizes the importance of seeking exposure to diverse open source spaces, projects, conferences, and ideals to avoid bias and gain a comprehensive understanding. [00:36:32] Find out where you can follow Sophia on the web. Spotlight [00:37:24] Leslie’s spotlight is her first boss, Joseph Nguyen. [00:37:53] Richard’s spotlight is the Green Mountain Club and the Appalachian Mountain Club. [00:38:42] Sophia’s spotlight is Inessa Pawson, a maintainer at NumPy. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] SustainOSS Mastodon Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Twitter Leslie Hawthorn Twitter Sophia Vargas LinkedIn Google Open Source CHAOSS What motivates open source software contributors? (article) The Shifting Sands of Motivation: Revisiting What Drives Contributors in Open Source (article) Do I Belong? Modeling Sense of Virtual Community Among Linux Kernel Contributors (article) The penumbra of open source: projects outside of centralized platforms are longer maintained, more academic and more collaborative (article) Sustainability Forecasting for Apache Incubator Projects (article) ACROSS (Attributing Contributor Roles in Open Source Software) Why contributions count? Analysis of attribution in open source (article) Green

Guest Richard Littauer Panelist Karen Sandler Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! In this episode, the tables are turned today as Karen Sandler takes over as host, interviewing our very own Richard Littauer. Recorded at the Free and Open Source Yearly conference, the discussion delves into Richard’s evolving perspective on sustainability in open source projects. His experiences attending multiple conferences have led him to question the term ‘sustainability,’ advocating instead for a shift towards values such as human rights, joy, and mitigating harm. Also, Richard and Karen explore the significance of user rights, copyleft licensing, and GPL, voicing concerns over the erosion of these rights. They end with a discussion on the systemic complexities in the open source world, the potential for a new community approach to sustainable code, and an emphasis on collective action and personal joy. Press download to hear more cool stuff! [00:00:58] Richard offers a detailed insight into his talk. He explains his perspective on sustainability, suggesting it may not be the most fitting term when applied to the open source community. He shares his experience attending multiple sustain conferences and how it shaped his views, and discusses sustainability for developers, touching upon burnout, recognition, and issues of dependency, supply chain, security, and legal issues. [00:03:31] He notes the wide range of topics covered in the Sustain podcasts, highlighting the complexity of sustainability. He questions the usefulness of the term ‘sustainability’ and suggests we need to focus on what truly matters in life, such as human rights, mitigating harm, and seeking joy. [00:04:39] Karen reviews the flow of Richard’s talk, and he summarizes his talk questioning the emphasis on sustainability and growth, recommending instead to focus on joy and relieving suffering. [00:05:55] Richard advocates for focusing on personal fulfillment and societal impact instead of simply growth and funding. He emphasizes that the ultimate goal should be about human rights, liberties, and happiness. [00:07:20] Karen wonders if Richard is going to rename the podcast. He maintains his support for open source but stresses the importance of focusing on impact and human values. He emphasizes the importance of considering one’s own project in the larger context and evaluating its actual importance. [00:08:47] Richard discusses the importance of GPL for user protections and shares concerns about devices locking users out, he shares his changing stance towards GPL and the impact of his code. [00:09:36] Karen and Richard discuss the potential for a new community approach to sustainable code, and Richard suggests that sharing stories and rethinking relationships with technology is a way forward. [00:10:46] Karen asks Richard about his views on corporate power, and he explains how his view has evolved. [00:12:04] They discuss the systematic problems and individual roles within them. Richard explores the conundrum of trying to change a system from the inside or outside, and he prefers to use his knowledge and privilege to make an impact rather than disengage from the system. [00:13:41] Thinking back to all the conversations Richard’s had about the sustain movement, he shares his favorite conversation with Dominic Tarr, who left coding to pursue personal joy. Karen emphasizes the need for collective action to address systemic problems. [00:16:01] Find out where you can follow Richard and his projects online. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] SustainOSS Mastodon Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Twitter Richard Littauer Website Software Freedom Conservancy Open OSS Dominic Tarr (YouTube) Sustain Podcast-Episode 56: Dominic Tarr on Coding What You Want, Living On a Boat, and the Early Days of Node.js Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Richard Littauer.

Guest Adam Monsen Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! Richard is in Portland at FOSSY, the Free and Open Source Software Yearly conference that is held by the Software Freedom Conservancy. In today’s episode, Richard is joined by Adam Monsen, co-founder of the open source conference, SeaGL, and author of the soon-to-be-published book, Steadfast Self-Hosting: Rapid-Rise Personal Cloud, which aims to guide individuals and groups towards personal data control, an important step towards autonomy, agency, and freedom. The discussion highlights the value of self-hosting data, its potential applications, and the benefits it can bring to small and mid-sized businesses. Adam shares that his book is free and open for remixing and reprinting, and it will not only be a guide but also serve as a starting point for tech authors. Hit download now to hear more! [00:01:36] Adam talks about his book which aims to guide people on how to maintain control over their personal data. [00:02:33] The conversation moves towards the difficulties faced while extracting personal data from large tech companies, and Adam suggests the use of open source servers and software like Nextcloud to migrate data. [00:03:31] Adam mentions that the first step towards data sovereignty could be purchasing his book, which provides guidance on setting up personal servers and services. [00:06:11] Why did Adam write this book? He explains why and shares his experience with self-hosting data for his family and emphasizes that doing this for a group can be empowering and meaningful. [00:07:27] Richard brings up the shift from cloud to self-hosting by Basecamp and he wonders if Adam thought about pitching any of his book towards businesses to host their own data. [00:09:53] Richard mentions a group in the UK working to create a standard for APIs to allow users to extract their data from big tech companies and maintain ownership. [00:11:11] Adam affirms his willingness to contribute and underscores the value of individual data ownership, using healthcare records as an example of a system that could greatly benefit from more seamless data sharing. [00:12:12] Richard brings up the topic of digital sovereignty, and Adam tells us his view that data sovereignty should be more about serving individuals and small groups, transcending politics, and should be capable of crossing borders. [00:13:52] Adam tells us where you can find his book online and he reveals that the book will serve as a starting point for tech authors who are stuck or uncertain about where you begin. Also, the book build system itself will be free and open source. Transcript [MUSIC PLAYING] RICHARD LITTAUER: Hello and welcome to Sustain. I am here again at FOSSY, the Free and Open-Source Software Conference Yearly run by Software Freedom Conservancy. This is its first year and I'm here in Portland, Oregon, which is just completely sunny. It's amazing. It's actually really nice, especially as Vermont is entirely underwater. But yeah, it's just good to be here and I'm here with a guest today. I'm Richard Littauer (if you didn't know that already) and my guest today is Adam Monsen coming down from Seattle. Adam, how are you doing? ADAM MONSEN: Doing very well, Richard. Thank you for having me. RICHARD LITTAUER: Thank you for coming on. So Adam, we just had a short chat before the podcast. Super cool. One of the founders of SeaGL, which is probably one of my favorite conferences. Free, every time. Stuff that people are passionate about. Seattle GNU/Linux Conference. It doesn't just mean GNU/Linux it means all of open source as a seagull as their mascot. Is it a glaucous-winged gull or an Olympic gull or a Herring gull? Do you have a species definition for that? ADAM MONSEN: (laughs) I have no idea. RICHARD LITTAUER: Okay, cool. Anything I missed when describing SeaGL? ADAM MONSEN: You nailed it. RICHARD LITTAUER: Excellent. That's because it's amazing. It's coming out November 11th. It's going to be the 11th time. ADAM MONSEN: Back in person at the UW. RICHARD LITTAUER: U-DUB! Two fireplaces this year. Very exciting. Salt was keen to share that. So, Adam is one of the drivers behind that. We've already talked about that on the podcast before. Go back to Deb Nicholson's episode, one of the early ones to hear more about that. We're probably going to have another episode coming out in October to remind you to go to this free-to-attend virtual or in-person conference. Super exciting. Adam, let's focus on some other stuff. I know you're an author. What's the book you're working on? ADAM MONSEN: I'm calling it Steadfast Self-Hosting: Rapid-Rise Personal Cloud. It's a manifesto for people who care about having their own data. Not necessarily for privacy, although that's a common motive. The fundamental theory I'm trying to push forward this concept of data sovereignty, I didn't make

Guests Daniel Stenberg | Dan Lorenc Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Today, we are switching things up and doing something new for this episode of Sustain, where we’ll be talking about current events, specifically security challenges. Richard welcomes guest, Daniel Stenberg, founder, and lead developer of the cURL project. Richard and Daniel dive into the complexities of Common Vulnerabilities and Exposures (CVEs), discussing issues with how they are reported, scored, and the potential impact on open source maintainers. They also explore the difficulty of fixing the CVE system, propose short-term solutions, and address concerns about CVE-related DDOS attacks. Dan Lorenc, co-founder, and CEO of Chainguard, also joins us and offers insights into the National Vulnerability Database (NVD) and suggests ways to improve CVE quality. NDS’s response is examined, and Daniel shares his frustrations and uncertainties regarding the CVE system’s future. Hit download now to hear more! [00:01:00] Richard explains that they will discuss Common Vulnerabilities and Exposures (CVEs) and mentions that CVEs were launched in September 1999, briefly highlighting their purpose. He mentions receiving an email about a CVE related to the cURL project, which wasn’t acknowledged by the cURL team. [00:01:50] Daniel explains that the email about the CVE was sent to the cURL library mailing list by a contributor who noticed the issue. He describes the confusion about the old bug being registered as a new CVE. discusses the process of requesting a CVE. He also mentions the National Vulnerability Database (NVD) and how it consumes and assigns severity scores to CVEs. [00:03:54] Daniel discusses the process of requesting a CVE which involves organizations like MITRE, and he mentions the National Vulnerability Database (NVD) and how it consumes and assigns severity scores to CVEs. [00:06:21] Richard asks about how NVD assigns severity scores to CVEs and specifically in the case of CVE 2020, and Daniel describes the actual bug in curl, which was a minor issue involving retry delays and not a severe security threat. [00:09:57] Richard questions who at NVD determines these scores and whether they are policy makers or coders, to which Daniel admits he has no idea and discusses his efforts to address the issue. He expresses frustration with NVD’s scoring system and their lack of communication. [00:11:18] Daniel and Richard discuss their concerns about the accuracy and relevance of CVE ratings, especially in cases where those assigning scores may not fully understand the technical details of vulnerabilities. [00:14:37] We now welcome Dan Lorenc to get his point of view on this issue. Dan introduces himself and talks about his experience with the NVD, highlighting some of the issues with CVE scoring and the varying quality of CVE reports. [00:16:11] Dan mentions the problems with the CVSS scoring and the incentives for individuals to report vulnerabilities with higher scores for personal gain, leading to score inflation. Dan suggests that NVD could improve the quality of CVEs by applying more scrutiny to high-severity and widely used libraries like cURL, which could reduce the noise and waste of resources in the industry. [00:18:23] Richard presents NVD’s response to their inquiry. Then, Daniel and Richard discuss NVD’s response and the discrepancy between their assessment and that of open source maintainers like Daniel who believe that some CVEs are not valid security issues. [00:20:44] Richard asks if anyone offered to fund the work to fix vulnerabilities in important open source projects like cURL when a CVE is reported. Daniel replies that no such offers have been made, as most involved in the project recognize that some CVEs are not actual security problems, but rather meta problems caused by the CVE rating system. [00:21:40] Daniel explains his short-term solution of registering his own CNA (CVE Numbering Authority) to manage CVEs for his products and prevent anonymous users from filing CVEs. [00:23:04] Richard raises concerns about the potential for a CVE DDOS attack on open source, overwhelming them with a flood of CVE reports. [00:24:20] Daniel comments on the growing problem of both legitimate and invalid CVEs being reported, as security scanners increasingly scan for them. Richard reflects on the global nature of the problem, and Daniel emphasizes the importance of having a unique ID for security problems like CVEs. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] SustainOSS Mastodon Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Twitter Richard Littauer Mastodon Daniel Stenberg Twitter Daniel Stenberg Mastodon Daniel Stenberg Website Dan Lorenc Twitter National Vulnerability Database CVE cURL Chainguard Sustain Podcast-Episode 185: Daniel Stenberg on the cURL project Sustain Podcast-Episode 93: Dan Lorenc and OSS Supply Chain Security at Google Credits Produced by Justin Dorfman & Richard L

Guest Ben Hutton Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. In this episode, Richard introduces us to Ben Hutton, a Specification Lead for JSON Schema at Postman. They discuss the evolution and diverse applications of JSON Schema, its funding, and the importance of open standards for interoperability and innovation. The episode delves into real-world use cases, community feedback, and the 10-year vision for JSON Schema. Join Richard and Ben as they explore how JSON Schema is shaping the development stack and its potential impact on various industries. Hit download now to hear more! [00:01:00] Ben describes his work on JSON Schema at Postman. His work entails leading the project, finding ways to move forward, creating visions and roadmaps. [00:01:50] Richard brings up the question of understanding the market value for a Schema like JSON and asks Ben to elaborate on the improvements and ways they are moving forward. Ben explains how JSON Schema has evolved over time to cater to more use cases. [00:03:22] Ben explains that Postman funds his work because JSON Schema is used by The OpenAPI Specification, a standard for defining the interface and data structure of APIs, which is a part of Postman products. [00:04:20] Richard asks about the number of maintainers and community members for JSON Schema, and Ben tells us there are about five or six core maintainers and a community size around 15,000. [00:05:16] What’s the importance of open standards and why do they need continuous improvements? Ben explains that the team helps developers understand and use JSON Schemas and supports the implementers of the Schema across different programming languages. [00:07:24] Ben discusses a use case with Six River Systems, illustrating how JSON Schema helped different teams within a company to define their data structures and communicate more effectively, preventing bugs and misunderstandings. [00:09:29] We hear why open standards are important, as Ben states that standards are vital for creating value that people can use and ensure interoperability and they can also spur innovation. [00:11:51] Ben explains that JSON Schema was initially a personal draft within the IETF, but due to lack of alignment and communication issues, they’ve decided to publish their own standards while still maintaining some principles from the IETF. [00:14:51] What’s the difference between JSON Schema and JSON? Ben explains JSON is used for API calls, and JSON Schema defines the stricture of expected JSON data. He also speaks about managing radical change requests, maintaining standards, and the value of community feedback, and he reveals an official JSON Schema test suite and a new tool called Bowtie. [00:18:23] Richard asks about the funding and progression of JSON Schema, given its foundational role and slower pace of development. Ben describes Postman’s evolution from a basic API client to a comprehensive API platform. [00:20:01] Ben mentions other companies, such as Retool and Airbnb, that support JSON Schema due to its utility in their own offerings, and he talks about Microsoft’s usage and a pending case study on how GitHub uses JSON Schema internally. [00:24:09] Richard asks Ben about his 10-year vision for JSON Schema. Ben envisions JSON Schema being used throughout the entire development stack, from inception to defining data structures and models. He tells us about a case study they used from Open Metadata. [00:27:18] The topic of financial needs for JSON Schema is brought up and Ben is content with current funding but admits they need to assess financial stability. He also tells us about future plans improving compliance and supporting the ecosystem to ensure interoperability across different languages and backgrounds. [00:31:12] Richard asks about potential threats to JSON Schema, and Ben mentions that biggest threat would be if something were to replace JSON, and simplicity and ease of learning are key strengths of JSON and JSON Schema. [00:33:47] Find out where you can learn more about Ben and JSON Schema online. Spotlight [00:35:31] Richard’s spotlight is the book, Sir Gawain and the Green Knight by J. R. R. Tolkien and The Green Knight (film). [00:36:08] Ben’s spotlight is MeetingBar for Meet, Zoom & Co. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] SustainOSS Mastodon Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Twitter Ben Hutton Website Ben Hutton Twitter Ben Hutton Mastodon JSON Schema JSON Schema Slack JSON Schema GitHub JSON Schema Open Collective (Donate) JSON Schema Twitter Postman Open banking (Wikipedia) Open Banking Bowtie Retool Open Metadata Sir Gawain and the Green Knight by J. R. R. Tolkien and E. V. Gordon The Green Knight (film) MeetingBar for Meet, Zoom & Co Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree

Guest Josh Simmons Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! Richard is in Portland at FOSSY, the Free and Open Source Software Yearly conference that is held by the Software Freedom Conservancy. In this exciting episode, we welcome guest Josh Simmons, a notable figure with an illustrious career in the open source community. We hear about Josh’s important contributions, particularly his involvement with OSCON as a community manager and now, a co-organizer and program chair of the community track. Josh also outlines his talk on health and safety policies in the diversity, equity, and inclusion track, focusing on minimizing risks and promoting inclusivity at events. Josh also introduces his exciting new venture, Open Chapters, a consultancy designed to support and elevate open source projects, community organizers, and institutions. If you’re curious about the dynamics and challenges of open source communities, this episode is a must listen! Hit download now! [00:00:41] Josh talks about his involvement in OSCON as a community manager and how he’s now involved in the community track, as a co-organizer and program chair and mentions his fellow organizers. He also mentions his upcoming talk on health and safety policies in the diversity, equity, and inclusion track. [00:02:14] Richard shares his experience of traveling and getting COVID twice, and asks Josh provides an overview of health and safety practices. [00:05:05] Josh shares about his newly launched consultancy with Julia Ferraioli called Open Chapters, which focuses on social and technical systems in open source projects. [00:06:00] He explains his ideal clients for their consultancy for profit or non-profit organizations looking to benefit from or contribute to open source and free software. [00:07:03] Josh discusses the “community manager trap” and how they plan to avoid it by providing coaching, strategy, and educational materials to mentor new community managers into those roles. [00:07:50] Josh acknowledges the resource disparities in open source and his hopes to level the playing field. [00:10:40] Richard presents a devil’s advocate stance, challenging the approach of trying to help maintainers and suggesting that they should be encouraged to set boundaries instead. Josh agrees with Richard’s stance and highlights the importance of maintainers and suggesting that they should be encouraged to set boundaries instead. [00:12:47] Find out where you can follow Josh, Open Chapters, and his health and safety policy work online. Links Sustain OSS Sustain OSS Twitter Sustain OSS Discourse [email protected] Sustain OSS Mastodon Richard Littauer Twitter Software Freedom Conservancy Open OSS Josh Simmons Website Josh Simmons Mastodon Josh Simmons LinkedIn Open Chapters The Public Health Pledge Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Josh Simmons.

Guest Stuart Geiger Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! Richard is in Portland at FOSSY, the Free and Open Source Software Yearly conference that is held by the Software Freedom Conservancy. In today’s episode, we’re joined by Stuart Geiger, and Assistant Professor at University of California, San Diego. Stuart shares his unique expertise on “invisible work” in the open source communities, discussing his research funded by the Digital Infrastructure Fund and emphasizing the importance of documenting and valuing such efforts. The conversation delves into the gendered aspects of invisible work, the intersection between capitalism and open source work, and the emotional impact of burnout in emotionally demanding and undervalued roles. Richard and Stuart also explore the motivations of open source practitioners, potential links between religious backgrounds and open source evangelism, and the intriguing implications of large language model AI in the open source world. Hit download now to hear more! [00:00:32] Stuart tells us his focus area and explains that he also studies a range of decentralized, volunteer-based, peer production communities. [00:00:57] Stuart was one of the first recipients of funding from the Digital Infrastructure Fund, aimed at researching the unseen aspects of open source software. [00:01:31] What does Stuart mean by “invisible work?” In open source projects they are things that aren’t tracked on public code repositories. He shares that they have conducted over 50 interviews to learn more about the “invisible work”, and discusses the importance of documenting “invisible work.” [00:04:56] Richard and Stuart discuss the need for environmentally friendly alternatives to in-person meetings or conferences. Stuart suggests using tools like Open Collective to and the All Contributors project. [00:05:57] Richard asks if there are parallels between invisible work in open source and societal invisible work, particularly regarding women. Stuart affirms this and mentions that some of this labor can be gendered, especially work marked as more social. Richard and Stuart brainstorm a slogan to describe the transition from non-contributors to contributors in open source projects, so if you have any suggestions send an email. [00:08:48] The topic about the intersection between capitalism and open source work is brought up, and Stuart discusses burnout, explaining that if often occurs in professions that are emotionally demanding and undervalued. [00:11:29] Richard asks Stuart if open source practitioners see it as a calling. Stuart explains that some do while others are motivated by business necessity. [00:12:57] A question arises around the potential religious backgrounds of open source evangelists, and Stuart shares he has not specifically investigated this connection, though he has observed comparisons with political activism. [00:14:22] What is Stuart working on right now? He mentions exploring the implications of large language model AI in the open source world. [00:16:32] Find out where you can follow Stuart and his work online. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] SustainOSS Mastodon Richard Littauer Twitter Software Freedom Conservancy Open OSS All Contributors Stuart Geiger Website Stuart Geiger Google Scholar Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Stuart Geiger.

Guest Ben Hur Pintor Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, Richard is joined by guest, Ben Hur Pintor, a key player in the world of open data and mapping. Ben shares insights about his work with BNHR, a consulting business helping others harness open source and open data, and SmartCT, a nonprofit working on sustainability issues. He details their unique approach of using games to educate about open source and data concepts. Ben highlights partnerships with universities, shares about their Civic Literacy Initiative aimed at making more effective use of data, and discusses the challenges faced by people from the Global South entering the open source/open data space. He also tells us about Pista ng Mapa, an annual conference that celebrates open mapping in the Philippines. Download this episode now to hear more! [00:01:16] What is BNHR? Ben explains it’s a consulting business where he helps people find value in open source and open data, particularly open geospatial and mapping. [00:02:21] Ben talks about SmartCT, a tech nonprofit that helps local governments and civic society organizations deal with sustainability issues. They put citizens at the heart of their services and promote openness. [00:03:24] Richard asks Ben why he saw the need for SmartCT, and he explains that many cities and municipalities in the Philippines were starting smart projects, but there was a lack of innovation and communication between them. [00:05:40] Ben mentions they are focusing on building offline first and open tools that are easy for local government units to use, and he tells us about their projects, a card game designed to help people learn about open source and open data and they’re creating a smart mobility board game. [00:09:14] Richard wonders if Ben has found traction with these board games and if there’s any drawback to this approach. Ben acknowledges the risk of making the concept seem too childlike but argues that these tools are designed to simplify the introduction to open source and open data concepts. [00:13:20] Ben confirms past partnerships with local universities and student interns and shares a shift in focus due to changes in travel restriction in the Philippines. He highlights the importance of networking and partnership to their organization. [00:15:00] We start a conversation on the Civic Literacy Initiative (CLI), which is an educational project co-founded by Ben. He tells us its goals, focusing on shifting from siloed capacity building to something more impactful, and their intent to support civic organizations and philanthropic bodies to make better use of data regarding capacity-building activities. [00:17:47] Ben provides more detail about CLI, emphasizing its role in open data around capacity building, open consulting, and the building of the School of Data network. [00:18:59] Richard asks Ben about his perspective on open data and open source as well as the sustainability of open source in the Philippines. Ben acknowledges the overlap and distinctions between various open movements and shares his own journey through them and he discusses the tight-knit community in the Philippines and their collective efforts pushing for openness. [00:23:18] A question about the possible barriers for individuals from the Global South to enter the open source/data space, and Ben explains that entering the open source space is more challenging and how more support is needed. [00:27:40] Ben tells us all the details about his project, Pista ng Mapa, Festival of Maps, which is an annual conference that celebrates open mapping in the Philippines. [00:33:14] Find out where you can follow Ben and his work on the webs. Quotes [00:12:48] “To me the biggest difference with working in this side of the world and also in the global south, in terms of the baseline capacity and the baseline knowledge for openness, open data, open source, open standards, we’re not there yet.” Spotlight [00:34:10] Richard’s spotlight is a book he just read called, Legends & Lattes. [00:34:50] Ben’s spotlight is QGIS. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] SustainOSS Mastodon Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Twitter Ben Hur Pintor Website Ben Hur Mastodon Ben Hur Fosstodon Ben Hur Twitter SmartCT Facebook Getting Started Series Card Kit-GitHub SustainOSS Podcast 2 episodes featuring Jan Ainali School of Data SustainOSS Podcast-Episode 28-What “OpenStreetMap US” is with Maggie Cawley & Pista ng Mapa (Festival of Maps) Legends & Lattes by Travis Baldree QGIS Qasketball: spatial analysis and visualization of basketball with QGIS with Ben Hur Pintor (YouTube) Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Ben Hur Pintor.

Guest Aaron Wolf Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! Richard is in Portland at FOSSY, the Free and Open Source Software Yearly conference that is held by the Software Freedom Conservancy. Join us on a captivating journey with guest Aaron Wolf, the co-founder of Snowdrift.coop, as he unravels the story behind the innovative crowdfunding platform for open source projects. From his initial resistance to founding something, through his eye-opening Linux experience and a friend’s prompt to solve a pressing problem, Aaron details how he ended up creating Snowdrift.coop. Learn about the platform’s unique funding model, the early challenges and progress made over a decade, and its exciting recent developments. Despite not being a programmer, but a music teacher, Aaron finds parallels between his profession and the open source world, while he passionately advocates for the open source process in other industries. Discover the ups and downs faced by Snowdrift, the challenges of running a campaign, its current standing as a debt-free entity with a dedicated team, and a recent major milestone is revealed. Download this episode now! [00:00:29] Aaron tells us about himself and being a co-founder, and how his friend encouraged him to act on a problem he was complaining about which is the lack of funding for public goods. He was frustrated with certain software limitations and desired improvements, which led to his idea for Snowdrift. [00:03:38] How does Snowdrift work? Patrons pledge to donate more to a project when others join the crowd that gives together, a method they call 'crowdmatching'. Aaron expresses his reluctance to start something like Snowdrift due to the complexities involved, but his friend convinced him to give it a shot. [00:04:47] Aaron talks about the challenges faced and progress made over the past 10 ten years, and the importance of early adopters. He also tells us he’s not a programmer but a music teacher and discusses the similarities he sees between open source software and the process of creating music. [00:06:26] He talks about his frustration with the copyright system and how it hampers creativity, discusses his belief in the need for an open source process in other industries, like music education, and discusses the obstacles encountered when trying to use open source software and run Snowdrift as a co-op. He shares the Snowdrift gained early attention and interest but struggled to secure funding. [00:09:30] Aaron shares that despite difficulties, Snowdrift is debt-free, has a small, dedicated team, and 156 patrons with real money. [00:11:52] Richard and Aaron discuss the difficulties of applying for and giving grants. Aaron mentions they have not focused much on this aspect as it requires a lot of time and expresses that their work is still relevant and needed as it was 10 years ago. He also reveals a recent major milestone. [00:13:55] Aaron mentions their early effort in reviewing around 760 crowdfunding sites to understand the landscape. They found many people working on similar projects but not collaborating, leading to many of these projects disappearing after a few months. [00:15:31] Aaron highlights Open Collective as the closest to their own project, and mentions the benefits of Open Collective, including their legal foundation and handling of money, which Snowdrift has struggled with. [00:17:37] We hear about Aaron’s talk on the nature of public goods and why coordination is necessary for their type of solution. [00:18:02] Find out where you can follow Aaron online. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] SustainOSS Mastodon Richard Littauer Twitter Software Freedom Conservancy Open OSS Aaron Wolf social.coop Mastodon Aaron Wolf LinkedIn Aaron Wolf Website Snowdrift.coop Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Aaron Wolf.

Guest Joe Castle Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! Richard is in Portland at FOSSY, the Free and Open Source Software Yearly conference that is held by the Software Freedom Conservancy. Today, Richard speaks with Joe Castle from SAS, a global analytics and AI company, about the fascinating world of open source software. Joe, who supports the federal team at SAS, shares the company’s journey from its roots as a statistical software company in the 1970s to its current role as an AI leader. We’ll dive into SAS’s integral involvement with open source software, how it supports and contributes to the community, and its ambitious plans for future engagement. Explore Joe’s unique insights into the motivations and sustainability of corporate open source efforts and discover how SAS balances financial incentive with authentic community engagement. Tune in for an exciting conversation about SAS’s shift towards greater open source integration and its commitment to building superior products, and ongoing discussions about making Python packages a first-class citizen in SAS. Hit download now! [00:00:30] Joe explains his role at SAS, explaining how he supports the federal team at SAS and how it involves business development with government executives and advocating for and developing open source software. [00:00:54] What does SAS do? Joe describes it as an analytics and AI company, and SAS clients are not just federal governments but also span industries such as banking, insurance, and more across the globe. [00:01:51] Joe discusses how SAS uses and supports open source. Their product suite allows integration with Python, R, Lua, and JavaScript. [00:03:33] Richard asks Joe to explain where SAS fits on the spectrum of corporate influence on open source. Joe tells us that SAS is involved in all aspects of open source usage, development, and contribution. [00:05:36] Joe talks about SAS’s evolution from being a statistical software company to an AI company and how open source figures in their AI offerings. Developers can use Python to develop AI models using SAS’s packages and run it through their large compute engines. [00:07:09] Joe explains his talk about the architecture of the CAS (Cloud Analytic Service), which is a Python package that allows for the sequential processing of large datasets. [00:07:57] On the question of open source vs closed source, Joe says it depends on the context. While SAS has proprietary algorithms for model processing, developers can use their own python code to interact with these models. [00:08:30] SAS’s primary audience includes data scientists, developers, and data engineers who have an understanding of Python and R. [00:13:46] Richard inquires about the experiences of SAS in the realm of open source. Joe tells us they’re competitive motivations and they want to help users and capture a wider audience by signaling that they are open source friendly. He brings up the financial incentive for companies to engage with open source. [00:15:27] Joe provides an example of a large financial customer who’s using their software for significant data processing and analysis. [00:16:21] What’s Joe most excited to open source? He admits that some proprietary elements will remain closed due to business reasons. However, he mentions that there are ongoing discussions about making Python packages a first-class citizen. [00:19:06] Find out you can follow Joe and SAS developer stuff online. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] SustainOSS Mastodon Richard Littauer Twitter Software Freedom Conservancy Open OSS Joseph Castle Twitter Joseph Castle, PhD LinkedIn SAS SAS Developer Home Python SWAT Library SAS Explore Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Joseph Castle, PhD.

Guest Vagrant Cascadian Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! Richard is in Portland at FOSSY, the Free and Open Source Software Yearly conference that is held by the Software Freedom Conservancy. In this episode, Richard invites guest Vagrant Cascadian to delve into the world of Reproducible Builds. Vagrant walks us through his role in the project where the aim is to ensure identical results in software builds across various machines and times, enhancing software security and creating a seamless developer experience. Discover how this mission, supported by the Software Freedom Conservancy and a broad community, is changing the face of Linux distros, Arch Linux, openSUSE, and F-Droid. They also explore the challenges of managing random elements in software, and Vagrant’s vision to make reproducible builds a standard best practice that will ideally become automatic for users. Vagrant shares his work in progress and their commitment to the “last mile problem.” Hit download now to hear more! [00:00:47] Vagrant talks about their work at Reproducible Builds and details their responsibilities, including removing timestamps from Debian packages to enable reproducibility and maintaining infrastructure on ARM-based machines. [00:02:25] Why do reproducible builds matter? Well, they allow verification that the source code matches the binary code that runs on a computer, enhancing security and preventing potential exploits. Also, they are important in scientific principles and for developers during code refactoring. [00:03:41] The Reproducible Project is made up of a few developers under the Software Freedom Conservancy, but also includes a large community working on different projects. The project receives funding from various grants and sometimes corporate sponsors. [00:05:56] We hear about the challenge of managing random elements in software to achieve reproducible builds. Vagrant talks about their goal to make reproducible builds a standard best proactive in the industry, benefitting software users. [00:08:27] Vagrant shares their challenge in educating people about reproducible builds while also trying to make it a standard practice. [00:09:09] How can open source projects help? They can help by setting up reproducibility testing in their continuous integration frameworks. [00:10:24] Richard asks how large companies can benefit from and contribute to reproducible builds. Vagrant mentions how companies like Google find value in reproducible builds as it saves time, energy, and money by not having to rebuild things when they know they don’t have to. [00:11:56] Vagrant mentions that they’re in the proof of concept phase of making Debian 96% reproducible, which includes over 30,000 source packages and over 50,000 binary packages. Richard asks about the project’s expected completion date, which Vagrant responds it’s his last mile problem to some degree, but they’re close. [00:12:51] Find out where you can find Vagrant and Reproducible Builds on the internet. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] SustainOSS Mastodon Richard Littauer Twitter Software Freedom Conservancy Open OSS Vagrant Cascadian Mastodon Aikidev, LLC Reproducible Builds Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Vagrant Cascadian.

Guest Denver Gingerich Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! Richard is in Portland at FOSSY, the Free and Open Source Software Yearly conference that is held by the Software Freedom Conservancy. In this episode, Richard hosts Denver Gingerich, a member of the Software Freedom Conservancy and Founder of JMP. Denver dives into the backstory of JMP, the initiative to make phone numbers as flexible as emails. They explore Denver’s role as the Director of Compliance at the Software Freedom Conservancy, where he ensures companies comply with open source software licenses. Then, the conversation takes a turn to tackle a range of software compliance controversies, from Vizio’s violation of GPL to John Deere’s restrictive software that hinders farmers’ right to repair their machines. Denver provides an invaluable perspective on the work being done to protect users from software licensing malpractices. Press download now to hear more! [00:01:22] Denver tells us how he started JMP and the motivation behind it. [00:02:52] Richard asks Denver about the funding model for JMP and how he supports himself financially, and Denver explains his role at the Software Freedom Conservancy, a non-profit charity based in New York. [00:05:35] The Vizio lawsuit is talked about and Denver outlines how GPL enforcement lawsuits traditionally focus on copyrights but argues that the direct harm is usually done to the users of the software who receive it out of compliance. [00:06:58] Denver shares that he’s not a lawyer by training, but he ended up in his role after reporting a GPL violation he encountered with an Insignia Blu-ray player to Bradley Kuhn at a conference. [00:08:44] Richard asks if XMPP, the protocol uses by JMP, has license or compliance issues, and Denver explains that it’s not a software license issue and that XMPP, made through the IETF, doesn’t pose any licensing concerns. [00:09:48] Richard discusses companies with bad track records in software licensing compliance and the right to repair, using John Deere as an example, and asks how anyone could know if a that company is violating software license agreements. Denver explains that the first step is to investigate what software is used on the machines. He also highlights the issues with modern agricultural technology. [00:12:20] Denver tells us there are around eight employees at the Software Freedom Conservancy. [00:12:47] Richard wonders about potential lawsuits against John Deere and Denver clarifies while they haven’t sued, they did make a public post about their concerns after private discussions didn’t lead to resolution. [00:13:41] Richard asks if there are similar user protection efforts in other countries, and Denver assures there are, citing examples in Germany and mentioning other organizations, such as FSFE. [00:14:50] Find out where you can learn more about Denver’s work and the Software Freedom Conservancy. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] SustainOSS Mastodon Richard Littauer Twitter Software Freedom Conservancy Open OSS Denver Gingerich Website JMP FSFE (Free Software Foundation Europe) Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Denver Gingerich.

Guests Timmy Barnett | Devin Ulibarri Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! Richard is in Portland at FOSSY, the Free and Open Source Software Yearly conference that is held by the Software Freedom Conservancy. In this podcast episode, Richard interviews Devin Ulibarri and Timmy Barnett about their work with Music Blocks and Sugar Labs. Music Blocks is a visual programming language that combines music and computation, allowing users to explore musical and computational concepts. Sugar Labs is a non-profit organization focused on providing free software learning activities for kids and teachers. Devin explains that Music Blocks started as a collaboration with Walter Bender, co-founder of Sugar Labs, to create a tool that empowers kids to learn and create music using free software. The software aims to offer a creative approach to music education, helping students explore concepts and compose music from the very beginning. Download this episode now to hear more! [00:01:28] Devin Ulibarri introduces Music Blocks. It's a visual programming language for music developed in collaboration with Sugar Labs, a non-profit organization promoting free software for education. Music Blocks combines music and computation, allowing users to explore both musical and computational concepts. [00:02:26] Devin explains how it got started. He was interested in free software in education and attended a talk by Walter Bender, co-founder of Sugar Labs. They collaborated to create Music Blocks. [00:03:43] There are more than 150 contributors to the Music Blocks project, and Japan has shown interest in using it in their national elementary school curriculum for teaching programming. [00:04:21] Devin explains how you can use different instruments or even record a sample of a sound to create an instrument. [00:05:14] Devin talks about being a musician and started a job at the Free Software Foundation last year, having played a significant role in incorporating Sugar Labs. [00:06:20] Sugar Labs is used across the world and it’s impossible to really know with the nature of the software. However, there isn’t nearly enough people operating it in the U.S. [00:08:23] Music Blocks is seen as an instrument, and the team focuses on reaching a critical mass of users to create a culture that promotes active learning and creativity. [00:09:16] The main challenge is educating the public about Music Blocks and providing teachers with the necessary tools and materials to integrate it into classrooms effectively. Also. there needs to be a culture with it. [00:10:15] There’s Music Blocks for musicians and music educators. It offers a creative approach to music composition and exploration of musical concepts from the very beginning, which can be beneficial for music education. [00:11:15] They use an active approach to technology rather than passive. They hire students from music colleges to teach the kids via Music Blocks. [00:13:39] Music Blocks allows students to explore musical concepts and start composing music from the very beginning, promoting a more active and engaging learning experience. [00:14:35] Find out where you can follow Devin and Timmy on the internet. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] SustainOSS Mastodon Richard Littauer Twitter Software Freedom Conservancy Open OSS Devin Ulibarri’s Website Timmy Barnett’s Website Music Blocks Music Blocks Mastodon Sugar Labs Free Software Foundation Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guests: Devin Ulibarri and Timmy Barnet.

Guests Matthew Wild | Stephen Paul Weber Panelists Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! Richard is in Portland at FOSSY, the Free and Open Source Software Yearly conference that is held by the Software Freedom Conservancy. Today, he engages with XMPP protocol experts Matthew Wild and Stephen Paul. Matthew shares about his project, Snikket, which aims to make XMPP more accessible for everyday communication among friends and family groups. Stephen introduces JMP, a project designed to facilitate connections using an XMPP based stack, allowing smoother transitions from other communication platforms. They explore why XMPP stands out against competitors, and you’ll get a glimpse into JMP’s transparent funding model, Snikket’s user base, and the open source projects it’s built upon. Our guests also discuss their future visions, highlighting the importance of open communication and the potential for growth in the XMPP ecosystem. Hit download to hear more! [00:00:48] Matthew talks about his work with Snikket, and Stephen talks about the project JMP, which helps people connect with their friends and family using XMPP based stack and transition from other communication platforms. [00:01:57] Matthew explains why XMPP is a better protocol for Snikket compared to Signal; the main reason being that XMPP is federated, giving users more choice. [00:02:42] Matthew tells us how XMPP is different from Matrix and Delta Chat. [00:04:06] Stephen agrees with Matthew, stating that JMP also supports multiple protocols and wishes to promote open communication, and acknowledges concerns around Matrix’s scalability and funding models. [00:04:47] Stephen describes JMP’s straightforward funding model with customers paying a monthly fee for their services. Matthew reveals that Snicket’s user base is hard to determine due to self-hosting and different statistics. [00:06:21] Matthew explains that Snicket is built on a variety of XMPP-based open-source projects, including Prosody, Conversations on Android, and Siskin on iOS. Stephen mentions that JMP is a five-member team. [00:07:37] Stephen explains JMP’s business model, stating they function on a traditional business model where customer directly pay for the services they receive, and they operate as a cooperative. [00:08:59] JMP has about 3,300 paying customers and Stephen explains they don’t have a dedicated marketing team, but they use blogs. [00:10:03] Stephen explains that he and the other primary founder of JMP do not currently draw income from the project. [00:10:54] Richard asks Matthew and Stephen about their long-term vision for their projects. Matthew explains his goal is open communication and Stephen shares his goal is create sustainable funding for the XMPP ecosystem. [00:13:22] Why are Matthew and Stephen focused on XMPP? Matthew tells us he always had a passion for communication and Stephen emphasizes the importance of communication, stating it’s often overlooked and consumes by proprietary silos, which can be harmful. [00:14:47] Find out where you can follow Matthew and Stephen and learn more about JMP and Snikket. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] SustainOSS Mastodon Richard Littauer Twitter Software Freedom Conservancy Open OSS Matthew Wild Website Stephen Paul Weber Website Snikket JMP Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guests: Matthew Wild and Stephen Paul Weber.

Guest Erik Benner Panelists Richard Littauer | Eriol Fox Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! We are in Portland at FOSSY, the Free and Open Source Software Yearly conference that is held by the Software Freedom Conservancy. Richard and Eriol are joined by Erik Benner, who works for Mythics, a large public sector IT company specializing in cloud migration and traditional legacy applications. Today, they discuss the challenges of transitioning open source software to government departments and the need for technical and cultural support in sustaining open source in the public sector. Erik emphasizes the importance of verifying true open source software and shares insights on Mythics role in providing services and support for government organizations. They also dive into the usability of open source applications, Erik’s background in Unix and Linux, and the potential benefits and considerations of government involvement in open source. Hit download to hear more! [00:00:57] Erik tells us about Mythics. [00:01:43] Eriol asks Erik about the challenges of transitioning open source software to government departments and their familiarity with it. He also mentions the challenge of companies misrepresenting proprietary software as open source. [00:04:43] Erik suggests that governments should be more diligent in verifying if technology marketed as open source is truly open source and not modified. [00:05:56] Richard is curious about Mythics and Erik clarifies that Mythics helps government organizations procure and support commercial distributions like Oracle, providing services and knowledge base for technical support and education. [00:08:16] We learn about Mythics responsibility for fixing dependencies in the tech stack as Erik emphasizes the need for education and enablement in the public sector where training may be limited. He gives an example of cities adopting open source and highlights Mythics role in providing assistance. [00:09:44] Eriol expresses interest in the usability and user design of open source software, suggesting it could be more user-friendly, and Erik agrees and mentions that open source applications in the UI space have room for improvement in terms of user experience. [00:10:56] Erik talks about his early experience with Unix systems and his introduction to Linux, he mentions his involvement in kernel hacks, bug finding, and bug fixes. Then, he explains his career transition, how he became more involved with technologies and open source and discusses the importance of using the right tools for the right job. [00:13:04] Richard asks Erik about his opinion on government subsidizing or paying for open source to improve cybersecurity and make it a part of shared infrastructure. Erik mentions the MITRE Corporation and other government-funded initiatives that contribute to open source, highlighting existing grants and funding mechanisms. He compares government involvement in open source to examples like the post office and Amtrak, noting that a mix of government funding and other approaches can be effective. [00:15:09] Find out where you can follow Erik online. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] SustainOSS Mastodon Richard Littauer Twitter Software Freedom Conservancy Open OSS Erik Benner Twitter Erik Benner LinkedIn Tales from the Datacenter v2.0 (Erik’s Blog) Mythics MITRE Corporation CVE Security Technical Implementation Guides (STIGs) Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Erik Benner.

Guest Sam Whited Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! Richard is in Portland, OR at FOSSY, the Free and Open Source Software Yearly conference that is held by the Software Freedom Conservancy. Today, our guest is Sam Whited, a bicycle mechanic with a deep involvement in open source software development. His contributions include work with the XMPP Standards Foundation, the Internet Engineering Task Force, and the creation of Mellium, an XMPP library in Go. The conversation delves into the sustainability challenges faced by Mellium and similar projects with Sam advocating for support from larger companies and well-funded open source initiatives. Sam, a strong supporter of open source co-op consultancies, also shares his personal journey from tech to bicycle mechanic, underscoring the struggle of maintaining open source projects while managing living expenses. Go ahead and download this episode now to hear more! [00:00:38] Sam tells us about himself, working as a bicycle mechanic while contributing to open source software in his free time. He’s worked with the XMPP Standards Foundation, the Internet Engineering Task Force, and maintains an XMPP library called Mellium. [00:01:45] He explains XMPP stands for Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol and is an open standard communication protocol. He believes in it because of its recognized standards body, resilience, and the continuing work to keep it open, free, and sustainable. [00:02:38] XMPP sits at several levels in the communication stack. It’s used in various applications like Snikket, Cisco’s mobile video conferencing, Grindr, Zoom, and Jitsi. [00:04:11] Mellium is explained as an implementation of XMPP in Go. [00:05:13] Richard asks about the sustainability of Mellium. Sam acknowledges the challenges of attracting maintainers and funding for the project, and he explains his goal is to operate Mellium as a cooperative. [00:08:00] The conversation turns to funding for protocol implementation and Sam suggests that companies and well-funded open source projects should give back to the smaller projects they utilize. He mentions that Mellium sets aside a portion of their donations for upstream projects that helped him. [00:10:38] Sam explains “The Seven Cooperative Principles” from the International Cooperative Alliance. [00:11:30] Sam explains why he decided to work as a bike mechanic instead of pursuing work related to his expertise in using Golang. [00:13:43] Find out where you can find Sam on the internet. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] SustainOSS mastodon Richard Littauer Twitter Software Freedom Conservancy Open OSS Sam Whited-social.coop Sam Whited Blog Mellium-Go XMPP library XMPP Standards Foundation (XSF) Go Snikket Jitsi Grindr The Seven Cooperative Principles (International Cooperative Alliance) Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Sam Whited.

Guest Karen M. Sandler Panelists Richard Littauer | Justin Dorfman Show Notes In this episode of Sustain, hosts Richard and Justin welcome Karen Sandler, Executive Director of the Software Freedom Conservancy (SFC). Karen shares her journey from engineer to lawyer, and how her personal health condition led her to the world of open source. She discusses her role at SFC, the importance of Copyleft licenses, and the organization's diversity initiative, Outreachy. Karen also shares her personal experience with her defibrillator pacemaker, emphasizing the need for more control over technology. The conversation then turns to SFC's role as a fiscal sponsor, its support for alternatives to proprietary software, and its work in enforcing Copyleft licenses. The episode concludes with a discussion about SFC's ongoing lawsuit with Vizio over Copyleft license obligations. Hit download to hear much more! [00:01:46] Karen discusses her background and how she got involved in open source and her role at the Software Freedom Conservancy (SFC). [00:04:44] Karen shares her personal experience with her defibrillator pacemaker, emphasizing the need for more control over technology. [00:09:34] Richard wants to know about how Software Freedom Conservancy came about, and if she helped found it. [00:10:58] Karen goes onto explain SFC's role as a fiscal sponsor, its support for alternatives to proprietary software, and its work in enforcing Copyleft licenses. [00:12:52] Justin is curious to find out the status of the Vizio lawsuit, so the group discusses SFC's ongoing lawsuit with Vizio over Copyleft license obligations. [00:15:08] Karen explains the difference between Copyleft and Copyright, emphasizing the importance of Copyleft. [00:17:30] Why is this lawsuit so important? Karen explains how companies like Vizio are not sharing source code under the terms of the Copyleft license. [00:26:54] Richard shares the news he read about how Japan says, “AI Model Training Doesn’t Violate Copyright,” and Karen shares her thoughts and how it could be playing a role with things like Microsoft Co-pilot and its effect on Open Source Code. [00:31:55] We find out what software freedom means to Karen and the importance of holding companies accountable for their responsibilities under Copyleft licenses. Quotes [00:03:43] “Our technology may not be made for us, and what are we going to do when it's not.” [00:12:29] “It was never our purpose to just be a fiscal sponsor. It was our purpose to support software freedom.” [00:13:32] “The really deep thinking about licensing and whether or not how it works out to have non Copyleft licensing and Copyleft Licensing, how that impacts the longevity of a community and the ability to maintain the software as open source.” [00:17:10] “There's so much promise in devices where you can get access to the software because you can create alternative builds, you can do really cool stuff with them.” [00:19:42] “It's really the downstream recipients who are the ones who are hurt by the lack of compliance.” [00:24:03] “We’re in it for the long haul. Going to do this slog so that we can come out at the other end and do our best and see if we can get a good result for software freedom.” [00:25:49] “Almost no business models rely on proprietary source code anymore. Very few are like royalty based.” [00:29:54] “I don't care about Copyleft necessarily. It's a strategy to get us to that goal of software freedom.” Spotlight [00:31:55] Justin’s spotlight is py-cord, which allows you to create Discord bots. [00:35:49] Richard spotlights Kevin Kelly, and the Tim Ferriss Show podcast episode he was on. [00:36:20] Karen shares a personal spotlight, the late Marina Zhurakhinskaya. Marina helped found Outreachy and passed away just over a year ago. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse [email protected] SustainOSS Mastodon Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Twitter Richard Littauer Mastodon Justin Dorfman Twitter Software Freedom Conservancy Outreachy The GNOME Foundation Karen Sandler Twitter Karen Sandler FLOSS Social Karen Sandler LinkedIn Vizio Lawsuit Article FOSSY 2023 py-cord Tim Ferriss Show – Kevin Kelly “Excellent Advice for Living” Episode Tim Ferris Show Blog – Kevin Kelly Marina Zhurakhinskaya Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Karen Sandler.