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Product Talk

Product Talk

667 episodes — Page 9 of 14

EP 265 - Google Play Product Consultant on Opportunities in AdTech

Do you get excited about regulations? This is the second episode in our podcast series hosted by the 2023 Awards Advisory Board. Here, ZEFR Senior PM Bharat Manglani leads the conversation. He sits down with Google Play Product & Business Consultant Tammy Taw. Their conversation is all about AdTech. (Be sure to check out our Adtech infographic.) They talk quite a bit about regulations, including why they can be (surprisingly enough) exciting. They also discuss opportunities in AdTech, for example in the free-to-play gaming space.

Dec 21, 202239 min

EP 264 - Extend CPO on Fintech from a Product Perspective

Product management has evolved and grown in almost every industry, including Fintech. With Fintech comes great responsibility. Building customer trust, and ensuring cybersecurity and data safety are at the core of product management in this space. So, what practices and strategies are needed to be a PM in the Fintech world? Extend Chief Product Officer Orna Albus shares insights on core strategies and practices for product management in the Fintech space.

Dec 14, 202229 min

EP 263 - Novo Group Product Leader On Powerfully Simple Business Banking

In this Age of Product, people are seeing the potential in starting their own businesses. But starting a business from the ground up can be extremely challenging. These trailblazers need people to help them make the money move faster, and also to make the checking experience powerful and specific to their needs. So, how do entrepreneurs access powerful banking experiences that fuel their businesses? Novo Group Product Leader Akash Desai shares insights on how to gain a business edge with powerful and simple business banking.

Nov 30, 202218 min

EP 262 - Product Industries to Watch: Satisfi Labs CEO on Conversational AI Tech

"Where can I find bacon on a stick?" From such simple origins, Satisfi Labs built an AI product to answer the questions event-goers really want to know… Here is the first episode in our podcast series hosted by the 2023 Awards Advisory Board. Here, Fmr Groupon Head of Product Kristopher Drey leads the conversation. His guest is Satisfi Labs CEO & Co-Founder Don White. They talk about Satisfi Labs' quest to build a conversational AI tech platform on the theory that it should answer everything. Including where to find bacon on a stick.

Nov 16, 202222 min

EP 261 - Product Leaders to Watch Episode 5: On Life Sciences

This is the fifth episode in our series presenting the Awards Advisory Board (AAB) for the 2023 Product Awards. In this episode, seasoned product leader Neha Shah speaks with two product leaders. First up is Pulse PEMF Director of Product Ryan House. And second is TimelyMD Head of Product Zac Fleming. The subject of the conversation is Life Sciences.

Nov 9, 202227 min

EP 260 - Product Leaders to Watch: Four Product Leaders on B2B Tech

This is the fourth episode in our series presenting the Awards Advisory Board (AAB) for the 2023 Product Awards. In this episode, seasoned product leader Neha Shah speaks with three product leaders. First, is Xander CEO Alex Westner. Second is A10 Networks VP of Product Line Management Ganesh Rajan. And third is Vertafore VP of Product Development Nand Shivkumar. The subject of the conversation is B2B Tech.

Nov 2, 202248 min

EP 259 - Product Leaders to Watch: Fmr Groupon Head of Product and TrueML VP of Product on PropTech and FinTech

This is episode three in our series presenting the Awards Advisory Board (AAB) for the 2023 Product Awards. In this episode, seasoned product leader Neha Shah speaks with two product leaders. First, Fmr Groupon Head of Product Kris Drey talks about the PropTech industry. Next, TrueML VP of Product Michael Krafft leads us on a deep dive into FinTech. So sit back and listen to these "product leaders to watch" as they explain two key product industries.

Oct 26, 20221h 1m

EP 258 - Symantec Product Lead on Not Chasing the Shiny New Object

Does your team have its eye on the prize? Or is it constantly chasing the shiny new object? Here, Symantec Product Lead Michael Dubinsky explains why it is important not to do that. As he tells PayPal Product Lead Dimitry Shvartsman, it is vital that teams are not chasing the shiny new object. Rather, you should know your agenda, and what you are focusing on. Stick to that, and watch the new business roll in.

Oct 19, 202231 min

EP 257 - CPO Rising Series: Teladoc CPO on Leading by Looking Forward

This is the 20th episode in the CPO Rising Series, featuring Teladoc CPO Donna Boyer. Donna speaks with Products That Count CPO Renée Niemi on leading change in telehealth. A key theme is looking forward to the next horizon, rather than wallowing in what has come before.

Oct 14, 202237 min

EP 256 - Product Leaders to Watch: Macy's, ZEFR, and Universal Electronics Product Leads on Telecom, AdTech, and IoT

This is the second episode in our series presenting the Awards Advisory Board (AAB) for the 2023 Product Awards. Here, seasoned product leader Neha Shah speaks with three product leaders. First, Macy's Product Lead Alisher Rakhimov discusses trends in telecom. Next, ZEFR Product Lead Bharat Manglani shares insights on the AdTech industry. And finally, Universal Electronics Product Lead Nikki Ahmadi talks about the Internet of Things (IoT). Altogether it is a good introduction to telecom, AdTech, and IoT.

Oct 12, 202242 min

EP 255 - CPO Rising Series: Ford CPO on Going All In on EVs

Here is episode 19 of the CPO Rising Series, featuring Ford CPO Hau Thai-Tang. Hau speaks with Products That Count CPO Renée Niemi on the big transitions at Ford. A key theme is how Ford decided to stop hedging their bets and go all in on electric vehicles, or EVs.

Oct 7, 202246 min

EP 254 - Product Leaders to Watch: Oscar Health and Intuit/Quickbooks Product Leaders on B2B Tech, Part 1

This is the first episode in our series presenting the Awards Advisory Board (AAB) for the 2023 Product Awards. Here, Fmr ALTR Product Lead Neha Shah speaks with two of the AAB members about the B2B tech product vertical. First up is Oscar Health Product Lead Aditya Subramaniam. And second is Intuit/Quickbooks Product Lead Rosa Gonzalez Welton.

Oct 5, 202225 min

EP 253 - Product Awards Series: Kura Technologies Founding CEO on the Diverse VR Market

This is the final episode in the 2022 Product Awards series. Here, Ubiety Technologies CPO Nacho Andrade speaks with Kura Technologies Founding CEO Kelly Peng. They quickly got into the topic of digital transformation. This has resulted in a hugely diverse VR market, with clients in automotive, medical, and smart homes. They also discussed why Kelly believes the enterprise companies are the early adopters who will pave the way for consumers. And of course, Kelly shares what she believes makes a great product manager.

Sep 30, 202243 min

EP 252 - MongoDB Product Lead on a Data-Driven Approach to Product Management

Data analysis is one of the most important aspects of product management. It is how we get to know our customers and our product. In order to be successful product leaders, we need to dive deep into data and turn it into actionable insights. So, how can data analysis help propel your product forward? This week, Product Talk host and Product Leader, Neha Shah, interviews MongoDB Product Lead Rachelle Palmer who shares insights on a data-driven approach to product management.

Sep 28, 202235 min

EP 251 - CPO Rising Series: ChargePoint CPO on the Hardest Part of Being a Product Leader

What is the hardest part of being a product leader? Here is episode 18 of the CPO Rising Series, featuring ChargePoint CPO Bill Loewenthal. Bill sits down with Products That Count CPO Renée Niemi to talk about the hardest part of being a product leader. A main thread in the conversation is that building great products includes building the systems around the product. All of that needs to work. In order to architect those systems, a product leader needs good prioritization systems in place. And that is a great clue to answer the question at the top of this blog.

Sep 23, 202245 min

EP 250 - Reflecting on Great Products and Great Product People

Thanks to Products That Count's growing network of over 300,000 managers and leaders, we have been fortunate enough to speak with some of the top product people in the world. One of my favorite things this has led to is our podcast, Product Talk, which has been a Webby Awards honoree, was named by Forbes as a top podcast and has won other awards. Now, 250 episodes later, I have been delighted to see we've shared product strategies with people across the globe. Product execs from Netflix, Google, Wayfair, Instagram, and many more have helped to understand exactly what it takes to build great products. So, what are some of the best lessons learned since the founding of Products That Count? This week on Product Talk, I am honored and excited to share this special episode as we're taking a look back at some of our favorite conversations and the best product practices we have learned.

Sep 21, 202221 min

EP 249 - Product Awards Series: MURAL VP of Product on Playing to Wow

This is the episode 13 in the 2022 Product Awards series. In this talk, Ubiety Technologies CPO Nacho Andrade speaks with MURAL VP of Product Rosalyn Lemieux. They discuss the ways that MURAL is helping solve the problem of disconnected hybrid teams. And also why Rosalyn dislikes the miscommunication that can happen between product and engineering teams. Additionally, Rosalyn gives insight into how MURAL tries to be a fun company to work with – and for. She says this is enshrined in a company value called "playing to wow."

Sep 16, 202231 min

EP 248 - Tata Consultancy Services VP & Strides.ai Co-Founder on How to Implement Artificial Intelligence

Artificial intelligence has grown into one of the most formidable product tools on the planet. The Age of Product is being driven by automation and connectivity. and it is crucial that product managers understand what AI is and what it is not. So, how do product managers know whether or not AI should be a part of their product strategy? This week, Product Talk host, Neha Shah, interviews Tata Consultancy Services VP of Sustainability and Emerging Tech & Co-Founder of STRIDES.ai Malur Narayan on how artificial intelligence can impact your product and company.

Sep 14, 202236 min

EP 247 - CPO Rising Series: Optimizely CPO on the Value in Constant Chaos

Do you find comfort in constant chaos? If not, it might be time to shake things up. This is episode 17 of the CPO Rising Series, featuring Optimizely CPO Justin Anovick. Justin sits down with Products That Count CPO Renée Niemi to talk about the value of constant chaos. It isn't that Justin loves chaos, but he does think it reminds the team not to get too settled. He always wants to keep improving. Beyond that, Justin and Renée also talk about structuring the organization, and what makes a great Chief Product Officer.

Sep 9, 202249 min

EP 246 - Product Awards Series: TripleBlind CRO on Data Serving the Greater Good

This is the 12th episode of the 2022 Product Awards series. Here, Ubiety Technologies CPO Nacho Andrade sits down with TripleBlind CRO Jay Smilyk. Jay points out that product people need to listen to customers, but likewise, customers need to listen as well. Next, he discusses the idea that data is the new gold. Data creates business opportunities as well as opportunities to increase the greater good. He also explains what makes product managers unique, as well as successful.

Sep 3, 202230 min

EP 245 - YegaTech CEO on Real Use Cases of Artificial Intelligence

More and more, companies are jumping on board the train to new and innovative developments. New technologies like artificial intelligence have improved customer service and optimized routine processes and tasks. So, how can artificial intelligence benefit your company? This week, Product Talk host and Universal Electronics Sr. Director of Product, Nikki Ahmadi, interviews YegaTech CEO Mehdi Nourbakhsh on real use cases of artificial intelligence and how it can help product development.

Aug 31, 202227 min

EP 244 - CPO Rising Series: UiPath CPO on Diverse Perspectives For Stronger Product Teams

Is it a problem when your whole team agrees? According to UiPath CPO Param Kahlon, the answer is yes. In episode 16 of the CPO Rising Series, Param sits down with Products That Count CPO Renée Niemi. They discuss what Param values in product leaders. Param also argues that if you've hired good people, you need to give them autonomy. And Param urges product teams to seek out diverse perspectives and dissenting views. That is the only way to challenge the status quo and grow the business.

Aug 26, 202245 min

EP 243 Marqeta VP of Product Management on the Evolution of Products in Fintech

In this age of technological advancement, the most successful companies are centered around products. Product management, as a function, means different things in different organizations because every company is in a different phase of the product lifecycle. So, how has product management evolved in fintech? This week, ProductTalk host, Neha Shah, interviews Marqeta VP of Product Management Archana Prasad on how fintech and product management interplay.

Aug 24, 202244 min

EP 242 - Product Awards Series: Bloom CEO on Mental Health after the Pandemic

The 11th episode of the 2022 Product Awards series features the CEO and co-founder of an innovative mental health app. Bloom CEO Leon Mueller spoke with Wayfair Product Leader Nacho Andrade about the founding and development of the app. Leon's insights include the impetus behind the app and how women users made a difference. He also shares what makes a good product manager. Just like Bloom, it requires a laser focus on the consumer.

Aug 19, 202232 min

EP 241 - Leaders in Innovation: Rockwell Automation Industry Lead on Digital Transformation in the Manufacturing World

This is the fifth and final episode in the Capgemini Leaders in Innovation podcast series. In this conversation, Capgemini Consulting VP Adrian Penka speaks with Rockwell Automation Industry Lead Glen Fields. The discussion includes digital transformation in the manufacturing world relating to AR, cloud, and data analytics. Additionally, they consider digital twin opportunities for original equipment manufacturers (OEMs). And Glen lays out five keys for companies looking to pivot from products to services.

Aug 17, 202241 min

EP 240 - CPO Rising Series: Tenable CPO on the Magnificent 7 KPIs

In episode 15 of the CPO Rising Series, Products That Count CPO Renée Niemi interviews Tenable CPO Nico Popp. Nico speaks a lot about the Chief Product Officer mindset, such as thinking like a coach. He also stresses the importance of sharing the company vision with the whole team. This includes making meaningful connections and leading with transparency. Finally, Nico shares his key measurements for performance and growth. He calls these his "magnificent seven" KPIs.

Aug 12, 202246 min

EP 239 - Notion Chief Product Officer on the Product Management Journey

Product management is unique. Unlike many other professions, product managers must forge their own path. They must build roadmaps, plans, and strategies, and they must collaborate with engineers to build the actual product. So, how can product managers ensure their success? This week on Product Talk, Transfix Director of Brand Content & Sustainability, Patrick Blute, interviews Notion Chief Product Officer Madhu Muthukumar on how to successfully navigate the product management journey.

Aug 10, 202230 min

EP 238 - Product Awards Series: Pendo SVP of New Products on Utility and Delight

Do you believe in the dichotomy between utility and delight? In episode 10 of the 2022 Product Awards series, we learn why that dichotomy may be false. Here, Wayfair Product Leader Nacho Andrade speaks with Pendo SVP of New Products Tatyana Mamut. They discuss why great company culture at Pendo starts with having a transparent culture. Tatyana explains her biggest product pet peeve. And why PMs often should consider giving their product teams the same attention as their product customers.

Aug 5, 202235 min

EP 237 - Rent the Runway Sr. VP of Consumer Product on Creating a Seamless User Experience

Great products solve real problems, are understandable by users, and perform their tasks as easily and efficiently as possible. In order to be successful, product managers and leaders need to understand their customers and their pain points. So, how can product managers and leaders ensure that they provide their consumers with a seamless user experience? This week, Product Talk host and Product Leader, Neha Shah, interviews Rent the Runway Sr. VP of Consumer Product Preethi Ramani on how to create a seamless user experience.

Aug 3, 202235 min

EP 236 - CPO Rising Series: Vonage CPO on the Owner's Mindset in Product

Here comes episode 14 in the CPO Rising Series. It features Vonage CPO Savinay Berry speaking with Products That Count CPO Renée Niemi. Savinay and Renée touch on several key topics, all of them revolving around the owner's mindset. First, Savinay gives his list of key features he looks for in product leaders. One of those is the owner's mindset, which he explains in detail. Ultimately, he believes that instilling new hires with this mindset can give your company a significant boost over the competition.

Jul 29, 202250 min

EP 235 - CareRev COO on Creating Customer-Driven Frameworks & Goals

No matter what type of product your company develops, the goals and vision should always be customer-driven. Product managers need to understand their customers' pain points, and how they do their work in order to create proper frameworks and strategies. So, how do product managers create a stubborn long-term vision that is flexible in execution? This week, ProductTalk host and Transfix Director of Brand Content and Sustainability, Patrick Blute, interviews CareRev COO, Filiz Genca, who shares insights on how to create customer-driven frameworks that align with your company's vision.

Jul 27, 202222 min

EP 234 - Product Awards Series: Hootsuite SVP of Product on Sizing the Opportunity

When setting priorities, are you properly sizing the opportunity? In the ninth episode in the 2022 Product Awards series, we learn that, with prioritization, sizing is everything. Wayfair Product Leader Nacho Andrade sits down with Hootsuite SVP of Product Darren Guarnaccia. They discuss the best way to go about choosing the best opportunities. They also talk about why curiosity and empathy are two key traits for PMs. Finally, Darren sheds light on how he fosters curiosity in his PMs.

Jul 22, 202227 min

EP 233 - WearWorks Co-Founder & Inventor on the Haptics Design Device: Wayband

New technologies have allowed for devices to be invented that are truly revolutionary. Because of haptics, we now have technologies that provide the sensation of digital touch feedback. So, how can product managers implement universal adaptive design? This week, Product Talk host & ALTR Product Leader, Neha Shah, interviews WearWorks Co-Founder & Inventor Kevin Hoil Yoo who shares insights on the impact that inclusive product design can have on broader populations.

Jul 20, 202234 min

EP 232 - CPO Rising Series: Fmr GitLab CPO on Leadership through Transparency

Get ready for episode 13 in the CPO Rising Series. Here, Fmr GitLab CPO Scott Williamson sits down with Products That Count CPO Renée Niemi. Scott talks about the importance of transparency when leading people and driving change. When it comes to change, he keeps it old school by writing things down. With talent, he makes sure people know where they stand (and where they need to go). And because GitLab is all-remote, transparent communication is key to making sure everybody stays in the loop.

Jul 15, 202245 min

EP 231 - Leaders in Innovation: Unilever Global Head of Digital Innovation on Data, Priorities, and Sustainability

How do PMs create trends in innovation? This is episode four in the Capgemini "Leaders in Innovation" Podcast Series, featuring guests in the Capgemini portfolio of products. Here, Capgemini Invent Senior Director Eric Cohen talks with Unilever Global Head of Digital Innovation Darren Adams. The conversation ranges from data in consumer products, to how PMs balance long and short term priorities. Finally, Darren gives insight into how PMs can set and reach goals for both innovation and sustainability.

Jul 13, 202255 min

EP 230 - Product Awards Series: SpatialChat CEO on Building a Virtual Office

In episode eight in the 2022 Product Awards series, we learn that people still miss things about the office. Wayfair Product Leader Nacho Andrade sits down with SpatialChat CEO Almas Abulkhairov. They discuss why sometimes stubbornness is a key quality in creating a successful product. They also touch on why great PMs not only have a coding background, but they are also often entrepreneurs. Finally, they talk about the 4 things remote teams still miss about the office, and how SpatialChat can help.

Jul 7, 202246 min

EP - 229 Google Cloud Director of Product on the Importance Zero Trust Security

One of the consumers' main concerns when it comes to buying and using products is security. Product managers need a strategic approach to cybersecurity that secures both the organization and the consumer. So, how do product managers ensure security? Google Cloud Director of Product shares insights on how Zero Trust Security helps protect your product.

Jul 6, 202232 min

EP 228 - CPO Rising Series: Autodesk EVP of AEC on Embracing Overcommunication

Are you communicating enough with your team? Here is episode 12 in the CPO Rising Series. Autodesk EVP of AEC Amy Bunszel sits down with Products That Count CPO Renée Niemi. Amy shares tips on shifting the culture, structuring the organization, and setting priorities. For Amy, this story begins with embracing overcommunication. And considering how wide-ranging this discussion is (not to mention authoritative), communication is clearly one of Amy's strengths.

Jul 1, 202244 min

EP 227 - Leaders in Innovation: Hamilton Beach Senior Designer on the Big Impact of Sustainability in Product

Here is number three in the Capgemini "Leaders in Innovation" Podcast Series, featuring guests in the Capgemini portfolio of products. In this conversation, Synapse Product Development VP of Engineering Martine Stillman talks with Hamilton Beach Senior Industrial Designer Drew Carlson. They discuss the ways that Hamilton Beach is leading sustainability efforts, from reduced packaging to recycling test appliances. Drew argues that even small steps add up to big impact when it comes to sustainability in product.

Jun 29, 202229 min

EP 226 - Product Awards Series: PandaDoc SVP of Product on the Diplomats of Product

What does a good product leader have in common with Henry Kissinger? Here is episode seven in the 2022 Product Awards series. In this conversation, Wayfair Product Leader Nacho Andrade sits down with PandaDoc SVP of Product Bernard Desarnauts. They touch on the importance of grit and iteration in building a Product Award-winning product. They also discuss why PMs must learn to ask the right questions. Finally, Bernard shares why he thinks a good product leader is more like a diplomat than a president – or CEO.

Jun 24, 202229 min

EP 225 - Root Insurance fmr CPO on Career Development in the Product World

There has yet to be a job field that has grown as exponentially as product management. Many product managers and leaders are attempting to expand both their careers and their companies. And are searching for the right kinds of career development. So, how do you develop your career as a product manager? In this episode, Product Talk host and ALTR Product Lead, Neha Shah, interviews Root Insurance fmr CPO Hemal Shah who takes us on a journey through product management and into leadership.

Jun 22, 202231 min

EP 224 - CPO Rising Series: SoFi CPO on Building Products That Make a Difference

Do your products make a difference in people's lives? This is episode 11 in the CPO Rising Series. Here, SoFi Chief Product Officer Assaf Ronen talks about leading product at the San Francisco-based financial services company. In particular he talks about building what he calls "the AWS of banking," the importance of thought diversity on product teams, and why he is passionate about building products that make a difference.

Jun 17, 202245 min

EP 223 - Morning Brew VP of Product on Redefining the Media Company Playbook

Media companies whose main focus is producing content are still delivering a product to consumers. Knowing how to navigate the waters of product development, operations, and management are equally important in the media industry as in the product world. So, how do media companies redefine their playbook? Morning Brew VP of Product shares insights on how content and product management interplay.

Jun 15, 202220 min

EP 222 - Product Awards Series: User.com Co-Founder on Talking to Users in the Digital Era

How do you get to know your users? This is episode six in the 2022 Product Awards series. Here, Wayfair Product Leader Nacho Andrade speaks with User.com Chief Commercial Officer & Co-Founder Mike Korba. Their conversation covered topics from live chatting with customers to the silver lining of COVID for digital platforms. In the final analysis, Mike says that your value proposition has to be easily understood by users.

Jun 10, 202228 min

EP 221 - Contentsquare VP of Product Excellence on the 4 Pillars of Product Excellence

In this new Age of Product, the way that we approach product management and product operations must change, and so must our product teams. Product excellence is measurable and can be achieved through various practices. So, how do we ensure product excellence? Contentsquare VP of Product Excellence, Danny Carvajal, shares how a product excellence team can help drive overall success.

Jun 8, 202241 min

EP 220 - CPO Rising Series: Elsevier CPO on the 2 Key Traits of Product Leaders

This is episode 10 in the CPO Rising Series. Here, Elsevier Chief Product Officer Mikhail Vaysbukh talks about leading product at the Netherlands-based academic publishing company. In particular he talks about building with the right people, beginning with the interview process, to structuring teams, to the two most important behaviors for any product leader.

Jun 3, 202246 min

EP 219 - Leaders in Innovation: Intel Global GM on Smart Infrastructure and the Future of Cities

Here is the second podcast in our Capgemini "Leaders in Innovation" Series, featuring guests in the Capgemini portfolio of products. In this conversation, Capgemini VP of Product Management Masood Amin talks with Intel Global GM for New IOT Markets Sameer Sharma. Their main topic of discussion is Intel's innovative roadside technology, an AI-integrated infrastructure enhancement designed to make cities safer and more efficient.

Jun 1, 202246 min

EP 218 - Product Awards Series: InVision CPO on Being Obsessed with Team Engagement

Here is the fifth episode in the 2022 Product Awards series. The conversation features Wayfair Product Leader Nacho Andrade and InVision CPO Jeff Chow. The discussion began with Jeff explaining that InVision has long been obsessed with building simple tools to improve team engagement. Jeff then shared how InVision had the opportunity to build and flex new muscles — for new customer segments — during the pandemic. Finally, Jeff laid out three traits of a great product manager.

May 27, 202231 min

EP 217 - Authomize VP of Product on Building Security Platform Products

With the invention of SaaS, cloud infrastructure, and global technology advancements, the cyber security industry is constantly evolving. Instead of the old "wall" method, product managers are taking a new approach to product, including building straight to platform. How can PMs take advantage of platform products to serve multiple use cases? Authomize VP of Product Guy Katzir shares the holistic approach to cyber security and how to build great platform products.

May 25, 202233 min

EP 216 - CPO Rising Series #9: Fidelity Investments CPO on Developing a Strong Talent Pipeline

Does your company build a strong talent pipeline by investing in a culture of learning and development? Here's the ninth episode in the CPO Rising Series, in which Fidelity Investments Chief Product Officer Deba Sahoo talks about building and developing a strong talent pipeline. Train your team. Provide them with mentorship opportunities. Let them spread the word about your company culture. Then, even during a difficult transition like the digital transformation, your team will always have the right people.

May 20, 202244 min