Plain Talk

On Tuesday, February 25, lawmakers in the state House of Representatives worked late into the evening to finish work on the hundreds of bills introduced in that chamber this session so that they could be sent over to the state Senate for consideration. This legislative session has seen a lot of bills introduced — the most since the 1990s — and that's put a strain on the process. So much so that state Rep. Landon Bahl, a Republican from Grand Forks, says it's precluding lawmakers from giving important issues the attention they deserve. Bills get "ramrodded" into up or down votes, Bahl said, with lawmakers sometimes approving bad legislation in the hope that their colleagues in the other legislative chamber will address the flaws. Bahl sponsored House Bill 1408 with an eye toward addressing some of these problems. The bill, which passed the House by a wide margin earlier this month, would move lawmakers to annual sessions, albeit within the same 80-day constitutional limit they already have. Bahl thinks that would allow the Legislature to do a better job of keeping up with North Dakota's needs, but on this episode of Plain Talk, he said more is needed. Like a cap on the number of bills any lawmaker can introduce. Bahl pointed out that some of his colleagues have introduced dozens of bills. He said he started the session with just three introduced. "I guarantee you other lawmakers do not know their 10, 20, 30 bills inside and out. And I think that's poor legislation," he said. Bahl also said he'd support giving the Legislature's interim committees more power to finalize their work on bills so they can be brought immediately to the floor for votes when the legislative session begins. He'd also like committees to be able to kill legislation without it coming to a floor vote. "I think that streamlines government," he said. "It's a better use of our time. The efficiency is going to increase. Our work, the quality of our work is going to increase. The committees have the time to dive in." Also on this episode, co-host Chad Oban and I discuss Rep. Austin Foss's emotional comments against a resolution opposing same-sex marriage which passed the House this week, as well as progress on property tax legislation, a controversial sentencing bill, and the failure of legislation funding school lunches for all North Dakota children. This episode is presented by Dakota Resource Council. For nearly 50 years, DRC has worked across North Dakota to protect our land, water and future. Become a member, volunteer and take action, or donate today at www.DRCinfo.org. If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It's super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you're from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive

"I got angry," Scott Davis said on this episode of Plain Talk. "I had to walk away." Davis served as the Commissioner of Indian Affairs under three North Dakota governors (John Hoeven, Jack Dalrymple, and Doug Burgum), and now works as a consultant for North Dakota's tribal communities (he has familial roots in both the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe and the Turtle Mountain Chippewa). What made him angry, and want to walk away, were comments by Sen. Diane Larsen, a Bismarck Republican, suggesting that "cartels" were behind a proposal by the Turtle Mountain tribe to open a casino near Grand Forks. Davis is also a Republican, I should point out, having served under Republican governors, and as a leader in his local NDGOP district. On Plain Talk, Davis pointed out that tribal gaming is legal and thoroughly regulated by tribal government, state government, and the federal government. He contrasted that with charitable gaming which, thanks to the popularity of electronic pull tab machines, has exploded to become a multi-billion dollar enterprise in North Dakota. He described charitable gaming as "wild west, unregulated activity." Davis said he warned lawmakers about electronic pull tabs when their legalization was being debated in Bismarck. "Nobody wanted to listen to Scott Davis the Indian guy." Asked if charitable gaming had put a dent in tribal proceeds from gambling, he said "big time." He expressed frustration that lawmakers like Larsen are so often dismissive of the tribe's interests. "Treat us fair," he said. "That's all we ask for." Davis appeared alongside Sen. Scott Meyer, a Republican from Grand Forks, who sponsored enabling legislation (Senate Bill 2376) that would allow Turtle Mountain's project to proceed. That bill failed in the Senate recently, but Meyer expressed confidence that it could return later in the session. Also on this episode, co-host Chad Oban and I reacted to some feedback from listeners, and discussed recent debates over Sen. Keith Boehm's book ban bill, which passed in the state Senate this week, and school lunch funding legislation, which got a "do not pass" recommendation from the House appropriations committee after what seemed like a perfunctory debate. This episode is brought to you by the North Dakota Petroleum Foundation, providing education and outreach opportunities related to the petroleum industry, advancing quality of life initiatives, and promoting and enhancing the conservation heritage of North Dakota. Learn more at www.NDPetroleumFoundation.org. If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It's super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you're from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive

MINOT — For the first time ever we took the Plain Talk podcast on the road, to famed bar, restaurant, and political hangout Peacock Alley. We interviewed Senate Majority Leader David Hogue and House Minority Leader Zac Ista. We also interviewed a couple of former lawmakers, Jessica Bell and Erin Oban. The theme of the night? The legislature is going to have to change. Bell and Oban talked about how much the Legislature changed, both during their time and since. Things have become more performative and less productive. Hogue and Ista talked about the struggles to get through more than a thousand proposed bills while still giving each of them the scrutiny and consideration they deserve. All of this is happening as both North Dakota, and the nation, go through a sometimes baffling political realignment, and North Dakota, specifically, has a new term limits law for lawmakers looming. What can North Dakota do to ensure that the Legislature can continue to serve our state well, without veering off into the morass of dysfunction that's reality in Washington D.C.? We also talked about tough fights taking place in the current legislative session over sentencing, property taxes, and more. This episode is brought to you by the North Dakota Petroleum Foundation, providing education and outreach opportunities related to the petroleum industry, advancing quality of life initiatives, and promoting and enhancing the conservation heritage of North Dakota. Learn more at www.NDPetroleumFoundation.org. If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It's super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you're from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive

Lawmakers in Bismarck are considering a number of school choice bills which would, in various ways, make public dollars available for parents to use toward private school tuition. The most important one, perhaps, is Senate Bill 2400, introduced by Sen. Michelle Axtman, and it does a whole lot more than just fund school choice. As currently amended, it would create what's called education savings accounts, making at least $1,000 available for every student in North Dakota who attends a public school or is home-schooled. For students attending participating private schools, there would be $4,000 available per student for families making 300% of the federal poverty level or less, $2,000 for families making up to 500% of the poverty level, and $1,000 for everyone else. These funds could be used not just for tuition, but other things as well, like a STEM camp or tutoring, but there's a big price tag attached. The most recent fiscal note attached to the legislation estimates its cost at north of $200 million per two-year budget cycle. Sen. Axtman joined Plain Talk to discuss this legislation, including its cost, the impact it may have on funding for public schools, and the process through which North Dakotans would access these funds. Also on this episode, co-host Chad Oban and I talked about the status of culture war bills in the Legislature, as well as Rep. Lori VanWinkle's vile comments about infertile women. This episode is brought to you by the North Dakota Petroleum Foundation, providing education and outreach opportunities related to the petroleum industry, advancing quality of life initiatives, and promoting and enhancing the conservation heritage of North Dakota. Learn more at www.NDPetroleumFoundation.org. If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It's super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you're from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive

At the beginning of this episode of Plain Talk, Attorney General Drew Wrigley took exception to my recent reporting suggesting that he and Gov. Kelly Armstrong are at odds over sentencing legislation and the performance of state prison officials. Based on what would follow, I think the conflict between two of North Dakota's top elected officials is positively overt. According to Wrigely, the North Dakota Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, headed by director Colby Braun, is lying to state lawmakers and the public. He took particular issue with a recent fiscal note issued by the DOCR indicating that so-called "truth in sentencing" legislation he supports, which would mean that inmates serve a larger percentage of their sentences, will cost taxpayers as much as $269 million. "Their quest is to make it extraordinarily expensive to turn people away from the bill," he said. "That is a blatant falsehood," a stormy Wrigley told guest-cost Erin Oban and I. "It is not worth the paper it's written on," he continued about the fiscal note. "It would be a joke if it weren't a matter of serious policy debate," he said. Wrigley also said that DOCR officials have been hiding data from the public and lawmakers, and making misleading statements about rising crime rates. "What an absolute abdication of responsibility," concluded. These are serious accusations -- lying, abdication of responsibility, etc. -- but Braun isn't an independent operator. He has a boss. That's Armstrong, who was also scheduled to appear on this episode to discuss the progress of property tax reform, which he has made his primary focus during this legislative session. I asked Wrigley if he felt Braun should be fired, and he demured, saying it wasn't his place to advise the governor on personnel issues. As for Armstrong's feelings about Braun? "I have total confidence in Colby," Armstrong told us when I asked him about Wrigley's remarks. "I try not to make things personal," he added. Armstrong said he hadn't yet reviewed the fiscal note issued by DOCR in response to Wrigley's legislation, which is Senate Bill 2128, but expressed some sympathy with its conclusions about cost. "It turns out when you lock people up, it's expensive," he said. Armstrong also said that while he'll take advice from his staff and cabinet into consideration, if he is ultimately asked to sign something like SB2128 into law, the decision will ultimately be based on his consideration of its merits. As for the progress on property taxes, Armstrong said he's pleased with the debate, though he's worried about lawmakers watering down the caps in his bill. House Bill 1176, which was introduced by Rep. Mike Nathe and carries the governor's plan, was amended in policy committees to allow local governments to set aside a 3% cap on spending increases for as much as 10 years if approved by a vote. "The way it was done probably means there aren't really caps," Armstrong said of the change, later arguing that it was a loophole so big "you could drive a grain truck through it." This episode is presented by Dakota Resource Council. For nearly 50 years, DRC has worked across North Dakota to protect our land, water and future. Become a member, volunteer and take action, or donate today at www.DRCinfo.org. If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It's super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you're from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive

In our promotions for this episode of Plain Talk, we had indicated that state Rep. Nico Rios would be joining us. Rios has made some fairly ugly headlines over the past year or so. He derated two law enforcement officers with bigoted and homophobic comments during an arrest for DUI. More recently, with regard to Mexican President Claudia Sheinbaum Pardo, he wondered in an X post "if the CIA would help Trump overthrow and kick this Jew out of power in Mexico." He's also introduced a resolution, in the current legislative session in Bismarck, which would have the State of North Dakota "acknowledge the Kingship of Jesus Christ over all the world," something that likely violates the state constitution, the U.S. constitution, and would not be in keeping with what many North Dakotans -- those of the Jewish faith, or Islamic, etc. -- believe to be true. Me and my co-host, Chad Oban, were looking forward to a respectful interview with Rios about these words and actions. Unfortunately, just minutes before the agreed-upon time for the interview, Rios backed out. "Ay dude I'm not going on your boring little show," he told me in a text. "When I initially agreed to come on Sunday afternoon I thought it was just to promote my Christ is King Resolution, but you seem to be focusing on my social media. NOT NEWS. Got more important things to do than chat Capitol gossip." We did have a very good interview with state Rep. Mike Nathe, who spoke about his property tax bill (which carries Gov. Kelly Armstrong's plan for reform) as well as legislation he's backing that would require all candidates seeking a political party's nomination to collect signatures to appear on the primary ballot. Currently, candidates endorsed at party conventions do not have to collect signatures. "I'm just glad they got this one out so everyone can see it," he said of his property tax bill, which just emerged from the policy committee with a "do-pass" recommendation and some amendments. The committee added the option for local voters to approve a 10-year exemption from the budget caps promoted by Gov. Armstrong. It also lowered the amount of the primary residence tax credit by roughly $100, and added an income tax cut. "If it was my desire that would have been in a separate bill," he said of the income tax portion. Nathe also responded to some of the controversy around Rep. Rios. "I don't agree with it," he said of Rios's words and actions. "My colleagues don't agree with it." Asked if he felt his party should remove Rios from the caucus, and strip him of committee assignments, Nathe deferred to House Majority Leader Mike Lefor, though he did have this message for the people who elected Rios: "The people of Williston have got to stand up." This episode is presented by Dakota Resource Council. For nearly 50 years, DRC has worked across North Dakota to protect our land, water, and future. Become a member; volunteer and take action; or donate today at www.DRCinfo.org. If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It's super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you're from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive

"We live in an age where people can say whatever they want without consequence," says Steve Hunegs, executive director of the Jewish Community Relations Council of Minnesota and the Dakotas. Hunegs appeared on this episode of Plain Talk to discuss the anti-Semitic comments made recently by state Rep. Nico Rios, who referred to Mexican President Claudia Sheinbaum Pardo as "this Jew." "There's nothing new under the sun with anti-Semitism," Hunegs told me and co-host Chad Oban, noting that hateful tropes and conspiracy theories focused on the Jewish people are often centuries old and dusted off for modern contexts. He said he hopes to have a "respectful" and "intelligent" conversation with Rep. Rios at some point. He wants to "try to have good speech drive out the bad speech." Also on this episode, Cody Schuler, advocacy manager for the ACLU of North Dakota, joined to talk about how some communities in North Dakota are trying to balance the principles of free speech with the desire some in public have to use open meetings as stages for at times hateful and bigoted language. He also spoke to legislation mandating the 10 commandments and Pledge of Allegiance in classrooms, as well as a Republican-backed bill that would expand legal access to abortion in the state. This episode is presented by Dakota Resource Council. For nearly 50 years, DRC has worked across North Dakota to protect our land, water, and future. Become a member; volunteer and take action; or donate today at www.DRCinfo.org. If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It's super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you're from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive

Property taxes are complicated, so is it any surprise that reforming the property tax code is similarly complicated? We talked about the property tax issue on this Plain Talk (again) because it is, without a doubt, the most complicated and consequential question before lawmakers in Bismarck during the 2025 session. Rep. Scott Louser, a Republican from Minot, discussed his property tax plan, which includes coupling a spending cap on local governments with a buydown of property tax mills. He also critiqued Gov. Kelly Armstrong's plan, saying he's worried that his proposed primary residence tax credits could depress North Dakota's real estate markets. Sen. Mark Weber, a Republican from Casselton, talked about his role in this process as the chair of the Finance and Tax committee, which will need to sort through these bills. Weber represents a largely rural area, and said that the owners of farm land are worried about being left out in the cold on property tax relief. In some rural areas, the bulk of property taxes are paid by a relatively small number of land owners. Is that fair? And what sort of a situation are we creating if a small number of voters, who don't pay the property tax thanks to the state's primary residence credits, can vote to raise taxes on a much smaller number of land-owning voters who do? "Everybody should pay a little property tax," Sen. Weber said. He also expressed frustration with the number of bills introduced this legislative session, which close to a record for the last 20 years. "I think we are introducing entirely too many bills in the legislature," he said. "If we had less bills we could have more meaningful debates," he added. This episode is brought to you by the North Dakota Petroleum Foundation, providing education and outreach opportunities related to the petroleum industry, advancing quality of life initiatives, and promoting and enhancing the conservation heritage of North Dakota. Learn more at www.NDPetroleumFoundation.org. If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It's super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you're from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive

There is a fight in the Legislature between the North Dakota Game & Fish Department and a group of hunters and landowners over regulations aimed at curbing the impact of chronic wasting disease on North Dakota's wildlife populations. But is that fight really about CWD? Or is this another front in the culture war spurred by (in some respects not entirely unreasonable) frustration with Game & Fish regulations? Dusty Backer is an activist (I don't use that word pejoratively, though he objected to being described that way) who joined this episode of Plain Talk to discuss the issue. He argues that concerns over CWD are feigned by state officials, federal officials, and academics as an avenue toward "controlling people." "Prions don't exist," he told us (CWD is described by health officials as "a prion disease"). He said that the state's efforts to regulate bait hunting, implemented as one method to control the spread of CWD, are unreasonable and an affront to property rights. Also on this episode, we've heard a lot about Gov. Kelly Armstrong's property tax plan, but Rep. Ben Koppelman, a Republican from West Fargo, has an alternative he says is better, though he admits that he likes broad portions of Armstrong's proposal. "The cap in the governor's plan I agree with," he said, referring to a 3% limit on growth in local budgets which he says the governor took from him. "I'm honored he would take that idea and put it in his plan." "Where I disagree is on the relief portion," Koppelman continued, saying that his plan delivers more tax relief on primary residences more quickly than Armstrong's plan by buying down a percentage as opposed to providing a fixed credit. He says there is political risk in not delivering tax relief swiftly. "I think we're going to set ourselves up for another measure," he said, referring to Measure 4, a proposal to abolish taxes on property values which voters defeated by a wide margin last year. Koppelman argues that, under his plan, a broader crossection of property owners will feel relief on a shorter timeline than under the governor's plan. "The idea is everyone should get to zer [property taxes] together," he said. This episode is brought to you by the North Dakota Petroleum Foundation, providing education and outreach opportunities related to the petroleum industry, advancing quality of life initiatives, and promoting and enhancing the conservation heritage of North Dakota. Learn more at www.NDPetroleumFoundation.org. If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It's super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you're from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive

There's no denying that the easy availability of explicit content on the internet is a major problem for parents, not to mention schools. We all agree, children shouldn't be looking at pornography, but how we go about regulating access (and even how we define what is and is not pornography) are tricky problems. Rep. Steve Swiontek, a Republican from Fargo, has proposed a bill that would create a requirement for the purveyors of explicit content online to implement age verification, but the government wouldn't enforce it. Instead, the legislation creates a legal liability for the companies allowing them to be sued by private citizens, or classes of citizens, if they aren't doing verification. "I do have a passion for this one," Rep. Swiontek said on this episode of Plain Talk. Also on this episode, we discussed a growing trend in the insurance industry that's worrisome for people obliged to take expensive medications. Basically, the insurance companies aren't counting payments made on prescription drugs with third-party money toward a patient's deductible. If the patient gets a coupon or a gift card to cover a portion of their out of pocket payment, that doesn't count. If they get some help from family, or a charity or a church, that also doesn't count. That can leave those patients stuck on an out-of-pocket treadmill for much longer than they would need to be. Rep. Karen Karls, a Bismarck Republican, joined this Plain Talk alongside Bill Robie from the National Bleeding Disorders Foundation, to talk about proposed legislation prohibiting this practice. If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It's super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you're from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive

Former President Joe Biden spent the last moments of his time in office issuing preemptive pardons to family members and political allies. He also pardoned thousands of people convicted of crimes, often to the bewilderment of judges and prosecutors, including some here in North Dakota. New President Donald Trump, meanwhile, spent the first moments after his inauguration releasing hundreds of people who participated in the violent January 6 attack on Congress which was inspired by his lies about the 2020 election. Mac Schneider has spent the last couple of years working in the justice business. The Justice Department, specifically, as the U.S. Attorney for North Dakota. How does he feel about these pardons? "The folks I work with are incredibly serious about upholding the rule of law," he said on this episode of Plain Talk, adding that the "wreckage" created by many of those pardoned persists even as their accountability disappears at the stroke of a politician's pen. "When you get news of that variety, I think of the victims," he said. "That does hurt." Also on this episode, first-term state Rep. Austin Foss, a Democrat from Fargo, talks about his experiences in his first legislative session, as well as legislation he's proposed that would require employers to give people interested in serving in the legislature a leave of absence. What does Foss think of the Legislature so far? "I'm surprised by the number of Republicans that do want to work with us," he said. If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It's super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you're from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive

Participatory politics is what makes our democracy work, but it also supposes that those who are participating are doing so in good faith. How do we handle people who want to use the tools of participation -- things like open records requests and open meetings -- as soap boxes for narcissistic jeremiads? What if the people participating aren't intent on being constructive, but instead are out to just burn everything down (figuratively speaking)? The City of Dickinson will soon hold a special election in which the incumbent, city commissioner Jason Fridrich, who was recalled to the ballot by petitioners, will run unopposed after the leader of the petitioning campaign, a local gadfly prolifically active on social media and in the public comment period at city meetings, chose not to run. This exercise in futility will cost the taxpayers of Dickinson tens of thousands of dollars, and what does it accomplish? Satisfying the ego of a minority faction of malcontents? "I bite my tongue," Dickinson Mayor Scott Decker said on this episode of Plain Talk of his efforts to keep his composure while getting berated during public meetings. "I'm patient," he continued, "but our patience is wearing thin." Decker and his community are struggling with balancing the sort of openness and transparency that allows certain members of the public to verbally abuse elected officials, and accuse them of all manner of perfidy, with the need to just get on with the public's business. Why should members of the public, attending a city meeting to learn about budgets, or taxes, or a zoning issue, be subjected to long-winded tirades that often have little to do with city business? This isn't just a Dickinson problem. Local governing entities across North Dakota -- indeed, across America -- are struggling with these problems. During his interview, Decker offered some fascinating insight on what it all looks like from a seat in local government. Also on this episode, Travis Finck, North Dakota's top public defender, talks about his office's struggles amid funding shortfalls, and his efforts to convince lawmakers to fund his lawyers on par with what prosecutors receive. "Right now we're not worried about a level playing field," Finck told us. "We're not even in the arena. If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It's super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you're from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive

In North Dakota, game and fish officials have the authority to restrict bait hunting in order to protect animals from diseases like chronic wasting disease. And that's what they've been doing. When a case is found in the deer population, they ban the use of bait for hunting in an area 25 miles around it. This has a very vocal faction of the hunting community incensed. Many of them insist that chronic wasting disease is a hoax, or at the every least an exaggerated threat, and they want state officials stripped of the ability regulate bait hunting. There are three versions of bills to do that before lawmakers in Bismarck. Brock Wahl is a fifth-generation North Dakotan and chair of the North Dakota Backcountry Hunters and Anglers organization. On this episode of Plain Talk, he told co-host Chad Oban and I that while regulation of bait hunting hasn't been perfect, it is necessary, and it is protecting state deer populations from CWD. "It's undoutable that this is making a difference," he said. As for the opponents? "I think some of these folks are on a disinformation campaign." Wahl spoke at length about the history of prion diseases like CWD, or other maladies like so-called "mad cow disease, calling them "both vertical and horizontal" threats. Part of what he means by that is CWD can spread to other species. Is that a threat to livestock, which is an important part of North Dakota's economy? Wahl said he didn't want to exaggerate the threat. "I don't know that it's a significant concern," he said. But he argued it's like playing the lottery. The odds may be against it, but buy enough tickets, and eventually you'll have a winner. Wahl said that some opponents of baiting regulation invoke property rights, arguing that they should get to do what they want on their property, but Wahl pointed to Article XI, section 27 of the state constitution, which states, "Hunting, trapping, and fishing and the taking of game and fish are a valued part of our heritage and will be forever preserved for the people and managed by law and regulation for the public good." The property may be privately owned, Wahl said, but the wildlife belongs to everyone. Also on this episode, Chad and I discuss the debate over bills mandating the 10 commandments and the Pledge of Allegiance in our schools, the first hearing over Gov. Kelly Armstrong's property tax proposal, and the debate over the explosion in charitable gaming. This episode is presented by the North Dakota Petroleum Foundation. ND Petroleum Foundation provides education and outreach opportunities related to the petroleum industry, advances quality of life initiatives, and promotes and enhances the conservation heritage of North Dakota. Learn more at www.NDPetroleumFoundation.org. If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It's super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you're from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive

By his own admission, Auditor Josh Gallion had a rocky relationship with lawmakers last session, which resulted in the Legislature appropriating funding for an audit of Gallion's office. That audit has been completed. It had findings related to communications issues and confusing invoices. The review also found that Gallion has implemented measures to improve these issues, and that they have improved. Gallion joined this episode of Plain Talk to discuss the audit of his office, as well as a request he's making to lawmakers to give him subpoena power to help his office review public/private partnerships. "I can't tell you how much I appreciate the feedback that we received last legislative session," Gallion said. He said there was some "additional emotion" on both sides of the relationship between his office and the Legislature during the 2023 session, but that he hopes to put that in the past. "We definitely needed to improve the communications and the detail and the training. So, that's the feedback that we really appreciated last session," he said. As for subpoena power, a growing number of government entities in North Dakota are working with or through private entities like nonprofits. Sometimes, the nonprofits are even created by the government entities themselves. This presents a challenge for Gallion and his team because their authority "really stops at the edge of that government organization," he told co-host Chad Oban and I. "If we do need to follow the money, there are times where we have challenges and these private entities may not have to necessarily comply with the public records," he continued. Gallion's office has submitted a proposal for subpoena power to lawmakers. Also on this episode, Dean Mitchell from DFM Research talked about a survey he conducted which was sponsored by North Dakota United, the state's teacher and public worker's union which Oban also works for. The survey found strong support for universal school lunches and property tax reform, as well as opposition to using public dollars to fund private school tuition. Mitchell walked us through the survey's results. This episode is brought to you by the North Dakota Petroleum Foundation, providing education and outreach opportunities related to the petroleum industry, advancing quality of life initiatives, and promoting and enhancing the conservation heritage of North Dakota - learn more at www.NDPetroleumFoundation.org. If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It's super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you're from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive

The public and media reaction to Gov. Kelly Armstrong's first address to the state Legislature has focused on his bold and aggressive plan for property taxes. That's understandable. There's a near-consensus in the state's political circles over property taxes being the most pressing issue facing this legislature. But Armstrong's state-of-the-state address telegraphed another hot issue that could put him at swords' points with another of North Dakota's top elected officials. During the 2023 session, Attorney General Drew Wrigley was combative with lawmakers who opposes his efforts to implement new mandatory minimum sentences in state law. Ahead of the 2025 session, he told reporter April Baumgarten that he will "lock horns" on the issue again. But during Armstrong's address, he made blunt reference to the fact that North Dakota's jails are full. On this episode of Plain Talk, I asked the governor if there's tension between his stance and Wrigley's. It seems there is. "I don't think we have the space" in the state's jails and prisons, Armstrong said. He added that his staff was briefed on Wrigley's plan the same day as his address and that he "hasn't even looked" at the legislation Wrigley is backing. When asked directly if it were something he'd support, Armstrong said, "I don't know yet," though he added that he's never seen a mandatory minimum sentencing bill that he's supported. "It's expensive to incarcerate people," he said. He promised during his address, and during our interview to be working on what he described as the "cheapest and quickest way to free up prison space," but wasn't ready to provide details, saying he'll announce the plan during a budget address further into he session. Armstrong is a former defense attorney — he described himself as an "old street lawyer" during our interview — and has been passionate about criminal justice reform since he was first elected to the Legislature as a state Senator in 2012. Wrigley, too, is outspoken on the issue. We could see some fireworks. Armstrong also discussed his property tax plan with co-host Chad Oban and I, and former U.S. Senator Heidi Heitkamp also joined to discuss the demise of the so-called "Chevron doctrine" in American jurisprudence, which may be the most consequential political issue you've never heard of. Why is Congress so dysfunctional? Because they aren't writing laws anymore, instead punting them to regulatory agencies in the executive branch. Why are presidential politics out of control? Because the power Congress has ceded to the executive branch has raised the stakes for presidential elections through the roof. "Congress needs to exercise its Article I authority and write the laws," Heitkamp said. She's leading a bipartisan group creating a roadmap for Congress on how to reclaim that authority. It's a fascinating discussion, and not nearly as boring as it may seem. If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It's super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you're from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive

Guest hosts Jessica and Michael Bell welcome Representative Anna S. Novak for a wide-ranging conversation on the upcoming legislative session. From property tax proposals to requiring the Pledge of Allegiance in schools, they explore the policies that will shape classrooms and communities statewide. Rep. Novak and the hosts also tackle energy reliability, including the role of coal and the potential for nuclear power. The Bells wrap up the episode with their perspectives on upcoming legislative priorities and President Trump's cabinet appointments. If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It's super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you're from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive

"Turn off the TV and talk radio," Chris Berg said in this February 6, 2024 interview, which we're re-publishing during our holiday break. Berg worked in those media for over a decade, earning the most notoriety (and, depending on your perspective, infamy) as a television host in the Fargo market. But Berg says he now has some regrets. I invited him to talk on this episode of Plain Talk after he responded to an article I posted on Twitter saying that leaving talk radio and television behind was the best decision he could make for his mental health. "I felt like I was dragging myself to the microphone," he told me. He ultimately decided to step back from that line of work, and decamp to the west coast. He said that shortly after he moved to California, news broke of a school shooting in Tennessee, and despite the awful news, he felt a sense of relief that he wouldn't have to spend hours having the same old shout-fest about it without anything meaningful getting done. "The sad thing about the media business is the more anger and hate you sow, the more money you make," he said. "Take off the red or blue glasses and challenge yourself," he added. If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It's super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you're from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive

We're in holiday mode here at Plain Talk, so we thought we'd bring you some reruns of a few of our best interviews from 2024. This interview with Rebecca Binstock, the executive director of the North Dakota Ethics Commission, was originally published on July 26, 2024. "Ethics commissions alone do not create ethical government," Binstock told us, adding that it also requires a robust news media and an engaged electorate. Binstock also noted that, while complaints filed with the commission tend to get the most attention, her goal is to reduce the number of complaints filed by holding seminars and information sessions to prevent them from happening in the first place. The voters created the ethics commission on the ballot, and since then it's become a larger part of North Dakota government. And, unfortunately, politics. This election cycle we saw multiple incidents of politicians and activists announcing that they had filed ethics complaints against individuals on the ballot, with a clear intent to manipulate voters, even though the complaints are officially confidential, and those they're filed against are prohibited by law from speaking about them. We hope you enjoy this rerun, and enjoy your holidays. If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It's super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you're from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive

It was an excellent year for the Plain Talk podcast. Our audience grew by leaps and bounds and is larger than ever. For that ,we have you to thank, dear listener. Thank you for tuning in. This Christmas, we wanted to reflect on the year that was, and the year that's ahead of us. On this episode of Plain Talk, Chad Oban and I talk about the highlights (and lowlights) of 2024. The Doug Burgum era of North Dakota politics came to an end, and the Kelly Armstrong era has begun. The North Dakota Republican went through a bruising primary season, but emerged after the general election as dominant as ever. At the national level, former President Donald Trump became president once again. We talk about all that, and more, and also look ahead to what 2025 might have in store for us. And, most of all, Chad and I and everyone involved in producing the Plain Talk podcast hope you and yours have a wonderful holiday. If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It's super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you're from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive

McLean County State's Attorney Ladd Erickson has not been mincing words in his reaction to some of President Joe Biden's pardons that impact our region. He's called them "ridiculous" and "despicable," though he wants to be clear that this didn't have anything to do with politics. "Some of the stuff that President Trump said he's going to pardon is despicable," he said on this episode of Plain Talk. But at least one of Biden's pardons is very, very personal to him. Erickson was involved in bringing Hunter Hanson to justice. Hanson defrauded dozens of people to the tune of about $11 million, but as Erickson explained to us on the show, his victim pool is larger than that. Whole businesses, some of which were the pillars of their small, rural communities, collapsed as a result of Hanson's actions. And President Biden commuted his sentence. Why? "I have no idea," Erickson told us, "and that's one of the frustrations." Also on this episode, Sen. Dale Patten, a Republican from Watford City, weighs in on the controversy over the proposed Maah Daah Hey National Monument. A group of activists are pushing hard to get President Biden to create this monument with an executive order on his way out of office, but Patten says it's far too big a decision to be made unilaterally in Washington D.C. "This is 140,000 acres," he said. "This is twice the size of Theodore Roosevelt National Park." He also said that Biden using the authority of the Antiquities Act would be in appropriate. "It's a circumvention of congressional intent when wilderness is declared a national monument." Patten said his criticism of the project isn't political. "As the proposal sits, I don't care who the president is, there would be opposition." He would prefer that local stakeholders in North Dakota -- from agricultural interests to industrial interests to tribes and all levels of state and local government -- work together on a plan to address whatever protections these lands need. "Do we need to include the federal to do that? No we don't," he said. If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It's super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you're from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive

A national survey reports that a shocking number of Americans under the age of 30 condone the murder of health industry CEO Brian Thompson, an act allegedly committed by Luigi Mangione. Me and Chad Oban discuss that survey on this episode of Plain Talk. Do the people justifying the murder of Thompson understand that people they don't like so much might decide to play by the same rules? What happens when other sorts of political extremists begin justifying violence this way? Also on this episode, a coalition calling itself Together for School Meals has formed to begin advocacy for legislation that would pay for school lunches for all North Dakota students. Tony Burke, a government affairs director for the American Heart Association, which is one of the groups in this coalition, joined us to make the case for the initiative. "It's broader than just school lunches," he told us, arguing that it's "about healthy students." How much will the initiative cost? How will it be implemented? What impacts will it have on existing federal funding for North Dakota's school lunch program? We asked, and Burke answered. If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It's super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you're from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive

If you get into an accident involving a local political subdivision in North Dakota -- maybe a garbage truck side-swipes your car, or you slip on some ice outside of a school -- you may find yourself dealing with what's called the North Dakota Insurance Reserve Fund. This self-insurance fund, paid for by local entities, handles those claims. And, according to a scathing report from Insurance Commissioner Jon Godfread's office, it hasn't been handling them fairly. "It's damning," Rep. Austen Schauer said on this episode of Plain Talk. "It's absolutely horrible." Schauer, a Republican from Fargo, sits on the Legislative Audit and Fiscal Review Committee, which received Godfread's report. He called NDIRF's treatment of claimants "callous" and "an abuse of public dollars." He argues that the way NDIRF handles claims, "the victim has to prove they were victimized." "There's no appeals process other than you hire an attorney," he added. Schauer says he'd like to see the current fund eliminated, and replaced with something new, be it a new fund with a better governance structure, or a private sector option. "If there's a legitimate claim, you pay it," he said. "If you have to raise premiums, you raise premiums." Also on this episode, Chad Oban and I discuss Gov. Doug Burgum's comments about his biggest regret from eight years in office. He says it's not doing more to put the blame for property taxes on the local governments that levy them. If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It's super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you're from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive

Artificial intelligence. Whether you love it, hate it, or are indifferent, it's here, and there are important questions about how it will be used, and what sort of opportunities it presents for our region, which policymakers need to discuss. Rep. Josh Christy is a first-term Republican lawmaker from Fargo who is heading into his second legislative session. He's also what you could call an AI professional. He's an entrepreneur, a software development executive, and a consultant who works with AI and AI policies on a regular basis. "Two years ago, generative AI was not something anyone was talking about," he said, referring to his first session in Bismarck. But now it's here. Teachers are using it. Students are using it. The business community is using it. On this episode of Plain Talk, Christy argued that it's time for North Dakota's laws to catch up. "With any type of technology, there's the good, the bad, the ugly," Christy said, and he's got legislative proposals for each of those. One bill he has developed in conjunction with Attorney General Drew Wrigley's office would address abusive uses of AI. Say, to develop images or videos of public figures for nefarious purposes or of children for sexual gratification. "People are using this to generate images of children in compromising positions," Christy said, and current law doesn't necessarily address that. But other initiatives Christy proposes would seek to welcome the AI industry into North Dakota as a partner. Christy proposes leveraging North Dakota's oil, gas, and coal resources to help power data centers. He wants to develop "computing credits" that could help facilitate the data industry's move into the state. He'll be pushing this bills during the upcoming legislative session, which begins in January. Also on this episode, Chad Oban and I discuss the on-going controversies around Burleigh County auditor Mark Spolonskowski, the efforts to recall Dickinson city commissioner Jason Fridrich, the arrest of Luigi Mangione, who is accused of gunning down an insurance industry executive in Manhattan, and what all those stories mean for our society's notions about right and wrong. If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It's super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you're from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive

When state Rep. Eric Murphy decided to introduced an abortion bill that, while perhaps representing where most of the public is on the issue, is likely to incite blowback from activists on both sides, he decided he wasn't going to ask any of his fellow lawmakers to co-sponsor it. "This is going to be a charged bill," he said of the draft legislation, which he'll introduce next month during North Dakota's legislative session. He said he felt "no need to expose anyone" to the threats and vitriol the bill could inspire. Murphy joined this episode of Plain Talk to discuss the proposal, which would make abortion legal as an elective for the first 15 weeks of of a pregnancy, illegal after 26 weeks, and allowable between 16 and 26 weeks only with approval from a panel of medical professionals who deem it medically necessary. Is Murphy's bill a pro-life bill? That side of the argument would probably say no, because abortion would be completely legal for the first 15 weeks. Is it a pro-choice bill? That side of the debate would likely say no, because abortion is restricted after 15 weeks, and completely banned after 26. But that middle ground between the two extremes on the issue is precisely where Murphy wants to be, and where he thinks most Americans, and most North Dakotans are. He told co-host Chad Oban and I that "we have to move away from the morality play" that the abortion issue is typically cast as. "Nobody is getting what they want," on this contentious issue, Murphy argued. He says it's time to start creating laws we can live with. Also on this episode, columnist Gary Emineth joined us to discuss property taxes. In a recent column, Emineth, who supported the constitutional amendment to abolish all taxes on property values which failed on the November ballot, argued for the Legislature to pass a somewhat narrower ban on property taxes, specifically removing them from only residential properties. If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It's super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you're from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive

I don't make a habit of referencing things Plain Talk podcast guests say off the air, but Deb McDaniel, the director of the gaming division in Attorney General Drew Wrigley's office, casually mentioned this jaw-dropping statistic on co-host Chad Oban and I after our interview on today's episode. In October 2024, electronic pull-tab machines in North Dakota saw over 200 million button pushes. The machines saw $80 million in cash run through them that month. That's one month, a state with just over 783,000 citizens. That works out to roughly $100 for every beating heart in the state. It's an astounding figure, and it illustrates how acute the issue of charitable gaming has become in North Dakota. Both Wrigley and McDaniel joined this episode of Plain Talk to talk about their efforts to regulate this exploding industry, as well as a looming push in the upcoming legislative session to take gaming regulation authority away from Wrigley's office. Also on this episode, we react to Gov. Doug Burgum's last budget address as a lame-duck governor, and the tightrope Sen. Kevin Cramer is walking around some of President-elect Donald Trump's nominees. If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It's super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you're from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive

Chad Oban and I are off for the holiday, so today's podcast is a rerun. This is an interview I recorded with columnist Tony Bender three years ago this month, in November of 2021. In it, we discuss divides in the North Dakota Republican Party that were apparent at the time, and still are today. We also discussed the tribalism of American politics in 2021, redistricting, and the special session of the Legislature in Bismarck. Tony was a good friend of mine, and passed away recently. Missing him, I went back and listened to this old interview, and thought you, the audience, might enjoy it, too, as a holiday rerun. Especially since so many in my audience were part of Tony's audience, too. Regular episodes of Plain Talk will resume next week If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It's super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you're from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive

Plain Talk co-host Chad Oban says North Dakota's campaign finance laws are a joke. They're not transparent, he argues, and there's little in the way of consequence for those who flout them. Sen. Sean Cleary, a Republican from Bismarck, wants to change that. He joined this episode of Plain Talk to discuss his idea for putting more information about campaigns and candidates before the voters, and creating some stiffer penalties for those who don't comply. Legislation Cleary is drafting for the upcoming legislative session, which commences in January, aims to require more frequent campaign finance reports from candidates and expand the information being reported. It also seeks to make reporting requirements more consistent across different types of campaigns, from those run by candidates to those backing ballot measures. Cleary is also looking at increasing the fines for non-compliance to put more of a "stick behind it," and he wants to require that both candidates and incumbents have to file statements of interest more regularly, disclosing certain facts about their holdings so that voters can scrutinize how they might intersect with the public's business. Also on this episode, Oban and I discuss my recent story about a plan for the University of North Dakota Alumni Association and Foundation to pay retention bonuses to UND President Andrew Armacost. We also honor the passing of my friend and fellow columnist Tony Bender. If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It's super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you're from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive

When reporter Adam Willis set out to profile the debate in North Dakota over Summit's Midwest Carbon Express pipeline for Bloomberg, he wanted to focus on the people who are for it, rather than against it. Much of the reporting on that topic, to date, has focused on the naysayers, he told Chad Oban and I on this episode of Plain Talk. During out interview, Willis described what he learned about the people who are working to make carbon capture projects, including Summit's, a reality in North Dakota, as well as some of the strange political bedfellows between the left and right the debate has created. Also on this episode, Oban and I discuss what may be the new political divide in America, which is less along the lines of ideology than the vagaries of pragmatism. The debate, increasingly, seems to be between people who are unflinchingly loyal to their party or buried to their necks in ideology, and those who just want to pursue good ideas. We also discussed the state of President-elect Donald Trump's cabinet appointments, and some of the blowback Governor-elect Kelly Armstrong has received for appointing an outgoing Democratic lawmaker to his cabinet. If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It's super easy—leave your message, tell us your name and where you're from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive

Heading into their 2025 legislative session, which starts in January, North Dakota lawmakers will consider dozens and dozens of bills dealing with property taxes. That makes sense because despite a ballot measure aimed at abolishing property taxes face planting on the statewide ballot, North Dakotans are not satisfied with the status quo. What property tax reform and relief will look like coming out of this legislative session is an open question, but Senate Majority Leader David Hogue told Chad Oban and me on this episode of Plain Talk that there is one certainty. "There will be caps," he said. Which is to say, lawmakers will be capping property tax increases, though Hogue explained that how those caps will be structured will be an open debate. Will the caps apply to all local spending or only that funded by property taxes? Will the caps be a flat percentage or tied to inflation? We'll see, but after years of demuring on caps, won over, Hogue said, by the local control argument, the Legislature is ready to get it done. Hogue also spoke about steps the Legislature plans to take to strengthen its oversight role in policy. The majority leader says the plan is to move dozens of executive branch officials who evaluate policy to the legislative branch. Which makes sense. If the Legislature wants to measure the success or failure of a given policy, it might not make a lot of sense to get that analysis from someone working for an agency head who lobbied for the policy in the first place. This move is also aimed at addressing the challenges presented by term limits. Now that the legislature is going to see more turnover, by law, it's going to be losing some level of institutional knowledge. Moving these workers to the legislative branch serves as a buttress to that brain drain. Hogue also spoke to impending debates over state jail and prison populations and state-provided mental health services, including the push to build a new state hospital in Jamestown, which he said is far too expensive. Also on this episode, Oban and I discuss Gov.-elect Kelly Armstrong's decision to appoint Democrat (and erstwhile Plain Talk gust host) Rep. Corey Mock to his administration, and provide some local analysis of President-elect Donald Trump's cabinet choices. If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It's super easy—leave your message, tell us your name and where you're from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive

In this episode of Plain Talk, guest hosts Corey Mock and Jessica Unruh Bell are joined by Minot Representative Scott Louser. Together, they dive deep into the complexities of North Dakota's property tax system, dissecting the legislative response to the failed Measure 4 and exploring innovative proposals for property tax relief and reform. Mock and Bell close the episode with their perspectives on upcoming legislative priorities and the latest developments in President Trump's cabinet appointments. If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It's super easy—leave your message, tell us your name and where you're from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive

In this special episode of Plain Talk, guest hosts Corey Mock and Jessica Unruh Bell welcome Senator Dick Dever from District 32 for a candid conversation on legislative insights and challenges. Senator Dever shares reflections on his experience in the legislature, discussing the impact of term limits, the significance of interim committees, and his personal goal to restore honor and civility in North Dakota politics. The discussion also covers the evolving responsibilities of policy advisory roles and predictions on how term limits might reshape the state's government structure. Following the interview, Corey and Jessica exchange their own insights on the upcoming legislative session and the recent reporting about Securities Commissioner Karen Tyler. If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It's super easy—leave your message, tell us your name and where you're from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive

Governor-elect Kelly Armstrong, fresh off a landslide victory on the statewide ballot, is coming in hot. He's still got a term in Congress to finish out -- he's said he'll resign shortly before midnight the day before he's sworn in as governor on December 15 -- but he's got big plans for his time in Bismarck. "I don't give platitudes," he told me and Chad Oban on this episode of Plain Talk. Armstrong campaigned on property tax reform. He opposed Measure 4 -- he said in a previous Plain Talk interview that he hated the proposal -- but he also isn't a fan of what the Legislature has been doing to address the issue in previous sessions, which as amounted transferring local spending into the state budget. "Don't send me another buy down without significant reform," he told us. "It hasn't worked in the past. It's not going to work going forward." He also talked about his philosophy when it comes to staffing his new administration. "I have a small alaw firm mentality for how I operate," he said (Armstrong practiced as an attorney before his political career). "I hire smart people and empower them to make decisions. If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It's super easy—leave your message, tell us your name and where you're from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive

The vote is in, and despite weeks of polling gurus telling us it was going to be a close election, it wasn't particularly close. It wasn't a Reaganesque national landslide, either, but former President Donald Trump won not only the Electoral College vote but the national popular vote as well. Legendary North Dakota political operative Pat Finken joined me and Chad Oban on this episode of Plain Talk to discuss the national election, as well as local elections, where Finken, through his Brighter Future Fund political action committee, campaigned against the Measure 5 legalization of marijuana and as well as a couple of Republican legislative candidates. The high turnout election, both in North Dakota and nationally, showed "the importance of showing up," Finken said. We also discussed how the election will impact the divides in the North Dakota Republican party, and how that coalition will govern in Bismarck. If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It's super easy—leave your message, tell us your name and where you're from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive

The legislative races in the Grand Forks area have gotten ugly. Incumbent state Sen. Scott Meyer, a Republican from District 18, sent his opponent threatening social media messages. Incumbent state Rep. Emily O'Brien from District 42 has been accused of not living in her district. Now Sarah Grossbauer, a Democratic-NPL candidate in District 42 -- one of O'Brien's opponents -- is dodging questions about drug use after a Republican (and former friend) leaked a photo of her allegedly using cocaine in the bathroom of a downtown Grand Forks bar. Me and Chad Oban talked about it all on this episode of Plain Talk (full disclosure, Oban works for North Dakota United, as does Grossbauer). One complicating factor in all of this is our propensity -- and I really mean "our" because we're all guilty of this -- of being hypercritical of candidates we don't like while rationalizing the behavior of those we do. It has to stop. We can expect more from our elected officials. Auditor Josh Gallion also joined this episode to talk about what he's done during his two terms in office to justify voters giving him a third. Among his arguments? He's modernized the office. "We had walls of filing cabinets with paper records," he said. Now, much of that data has been digitized, and is available online. Gallion also talked about his office's greater efforts to communicate audit information to the public, but at times that's gotten the incumbent in some hot water. His critics in the Legislature, and in local government, have accused him of sensationalizing funding. Gallion responded to those criticisms, and others related to the costs of his office's audits. Finally, Chad and made our 2024 election predictions. How will North Dakota's statewide races shake out? Which ballot measures will be approved? Will the partisan balance in the Legislature change much? And who is going to win the national election? You'll have to listen to find out what we think. And, after Tuesday, maybe you can make fun of us for being wrong. Speaking of which, we have a new way for you to communicate with us. Just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It's super easy—leave your message, tell us your name and where you're from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive

We live in an age of misinformation. The internet is chock full of false narratives and egregious bunkum that can seem plausible to some if for no other reason than the sheer volume of it orr, perhaps, because it confirms certain biases and attitudes the audience already has. Recently a website called the Gateway Pundit, which was forced to print a retraction as a part of a settlement in a defamation lawsuit brought by Georgia election workers published what it purports to be a news story about the Bank of North Dakota. Citing anonymous sources and critics, the "story" insinuates that the BND is involved in a cover-up of bad loans, bailouts, and other nefarious activities. The one on-the-record statement was given by Sen. Kent Weston, a Republican who serves in District 9. Normally, one might think it unwise to respond to internet cranks, but we live in an era where talk radio host Alex Jones was able to convince 1 in 5 Americans that the Sandy Hook school shooting was a hoax. These things can't be taken lightly. BND President Don Morgan joined this episode of Plain Talk to provide factual answers. "The only part of the article that is true is they got our name right," Morgan told Chad Oban and me. "As it kind of got picked up by some locals, we decided we want to get some facts out there," he continued. Morgan says the bank is in strong financial shape, and it hasn't received bailouts. He also said that Sen. Weston hasn't, to his knowledge, contacted the bank about the claims made in the article. Also on this episode, Democratic-NPL auditor candidate Tim Lamb joined to discuss his campaign. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive

"Even the most extreme ends of our legislature vote the same way 60+ percent of the time," a Plain Talk listener and sitting state lawmaker texted me recently. He was making a point about the way we talk about politics, where we emphasize our disagreements more than our agreements. "Difference in ideology is great. We need more civil debate and strengthening ideas through discourse," he said. "But the gap between left and right is much narrower than most people realize." He's right, and the voting records bear it out. We do agree more than we disagree, what gets the heat, what draws our attention for reasons having to do with human nature (and, if we're being honest, the sort of content that drives clicks and shares and views) is our differences. I was thinking about while recording this episode of Plain Talk, which featured Chad Oban and I moderating a debate between District 10 Sen. Ryan Braunberger, a Democrat, and challenger George Roughead, a Republican. As we covered education topics like student performance, school choice, and school lunches, and as we hit on working-class issues like child care, and as we delved into culture war issues like LGTBQ issues and book bans, these two bright, engaged, well-informed candidates spent a lot of time agreeing on what North Dakota's challenges are. They often disagreed, sometimes sharply, on what the solutions to those problems are, but when it comes to what the job before them would be if elected to another term in the Legislature? Both men were over the target. "I was a very good voice for my district," Braunberger told us when asked why voters should give him another term. He mentioned his work on child care and his efforts to work with Republicans. "Being one of only four Democrats in the Senate, you have to work across the aisle," he said. Roughead, who works as a teacher, said he wants to focus on education. "The Senate doesn't have any active teachers," he said. District 10 features one of the few competitive races in North Dakota, and that's probably because it's one of the few places with mixed partisan representation. The debate in District 10 can tell us a lot about the debates that are happening (or that would be happening if they featured competitive races) in legislative campaigns around North Dakota. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts, or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive

Chad Oban and I have a lot of disagreements while hosting the Plain Talk podcast, which is what you'd expect. He's left-of-center; I'm right-of-center. Today, however, we were singing from the same choirbook. Sen. Scott Meyer, a Republican running for re-election in Grand Forks-area District 18, who admitted to me that he got drunk and sent threatening messages to his opponent, Democratic-NPL candidate Kyle Thorson, should resign. We each made our case for why on today's episode of Plain Talk. Also joining us was former NDGOP chairman Perrie Schafer to discuss the work his LegeNDary Fund is doing to promote traditional, "normie" conservatism in North Dakota. "There are a certain group of people who are loud and make a lot of noise," he said. "They are not the majority." He said he wants to bring what he calls the "80%" of reasonable North Dakota Republicans back into active engagement with the NDGOP. "When the loud side of either party makes a lot of noise, the 80% are quiet." Also joining us was Treasurer Thomas Beadle to respond to criticisms of the State Investment Board made by two of our previous guests, Rep. Bernie Satrom and Rep. Mitch Ostlie of Jamestown. They claim that North Dakota's Legacy Fund investments are transparent enough, and have proposed legislation to require an online database detailing where the fund's money is at. Beadle says he supports the idea, but pointed out some limitations. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts, or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive

The Legacy Fund was launched in 2010 when North Dakota voters approved a legislatively-initiated constitutional amendment to create it. Now, thanks to the share of oil tax revenues it receives, as well as the investment returns its generated, it sits with a balance of about $10.7 billion. And it's become something of a political football. It can seem as though we are endlessly debating how the fund is invested and what we should do with the fund and its earnings. On this episode of Plain Talk, a couple of Republican lawmakers from District 12, in the Jamestown area, talked about legislation they'd like to see passed during the 2025 session which, they feel, would help inform those debates. Because one of the biggest problems of the Legacy Fund is that we don't know how a lot of the money is invested. Rep. Mitch Ostlie, and Rep. Bernie Satrom, estimate that about $3.1 billion of the fund's investments are opaque to public scrutiny. "Where are the dollars invested?" Rep. Ostlie asked. Their proposal is called the Legacy Fund Transparency Act, and it's pretty simple. It would require that the State Investment Board list the Legacy Fund's investments in a public way. Perhaps on the SIB's website. The lawmakers feel this would not only help inform debates over what we should be doing with the Legacy Fund, but also help us identify problematic investments, like when the fund was invested in Russian bonds. "We were literally funding the Russian government," Rep. Satrom said. The lawmakers were also somewhat critical of the current members of the State Investment Board, which includes among its number elected officials like Lt. Gov. Tammy Miller, Treasurer Thomas Beadle, Rep. Glenn Bosch, and Sen. Jerry Klein. "This has just been incredibly hands off," Rep. Satrom said. "We were able to find out...that we were in Russian bonds," he continued at another point in the interview. "Couldn't they see? They're just trusting the experts and not having common sense." Also on this episode, Chad Oban and I discuss what are probably the most important legislative races in the North Dakota, in Districts 10, 24, and 46, and we also talk about U.S. House candidate Trygve Hammer's recent criticisms of his opponent Julie Fedorchak. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts, or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive

People who are familiar with my body of work probably aren't inclined to think of me when they have an appetite for warm, fuzzy, feel-good stories, and yet that's precisely the sort of story we began today's episode of Plain Talk with. Which is a good thing, because as we survey the political landscape, there's not a lot to feel positive about. Joe Kolosky works for the North Dakota Department of Public Instruction. He says one of the favorite parts of his job is overseeing a program through which veterans of World War II, the Korean War, and Vietnam, can apply to receive the high school diplomas they missed out on when they shipped out to war zones. The Legislature created the program in 2001 for WWII veterans, and expanded it to include Korea and Vietnam veterans in 2003, and since then it's issued over 300 honorary high school diplomas including, most recently, two Korean War veterans. Koslosky says it means a lot to him that he gets to help these veterans, but more important, it means a great deal to the veterans themselves. Those who feel they or someone they know may qualify for it should contact the Department of Public Instruction. Officials only need you to fill out a one-page application, and provide a the veteran's paperwork verifying their service. Also on this episode, Chad Oban and I discuss the recent FEC filngs in North Dakota's federal races, our thoughts on the likely outcomes of those races, and the future of the North Dakota Republican Party's dominance in electoral office. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts, or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive

By the time her current term ends, Kirsten Baesler will have been the Superintendent of Public Schools in North Dakota for 12 years, having first been elected in 2012. She's currently running against Jason Heitkamp, a distant relative of former U.S. Senator Heidi Heitkamp and a former lawmaker who served one abbreviated, two-term in the state Senate as a Republican from 2021 to 2022 (redistricting forced him to run for re-election after two years, a campaign he lost). Heitkamp and Baesler met on this episode of Plain Talk for what has been, and perhaps will be, their only debate. Each presented sharply contrasting views of the job of superintendent, and repeatedly accused one another of lying or misleading. For her part, Baesler championed her performance in office since 2012. "I've accomplished a lot," she said, noting that she's reduced the number of employees in her office from 101 to 82 while simultaneously maintaining the highest level of job satisfaction among state agencies. She also touted her background as an educator. She's worked as a teacher, and served in administrative and governing positions at the local level. "A lot of people don't know who I am," Heitkamp said by way of introduction but pointed out that in addition to his legislative service, he's also served on two city councils and as a county commissioner. He also accused both the incumbent and public school educators generally of performing poorly. "We can't afford another four years of what's happening in our state," he said. The candidates took questions about student attendance issues, teacher recruitment and retention, vaccination rates, and classroom challenges related to mental health and education. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts, or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive

On this episode of Plain Talk, Chad Oban and I spent some time talking about the column in which I outed myself as a Kamala Harris voter. Or, more accurately, I spent some time expanding on my explanation, and Chad listened. But the more important part of this episode was our conversation with Sen. Michelle Axtman, a Republican from Bismarck who is something of a rising star in her party (she was transparent about her ambitions during our off-air conversation, saying her goal is to be elected governor one day). Axtman is heading up a legislative tax force on the school choice issue that has drawn some heat for not being as open as it should be to the public, and some criticssay (including Chad, who works for North Dakota United) not including as wide a swath of education stakeholders as it could have. Axtman took those questions, and answered them, but also delivered a clearer picture of just what it is they're working on. School choice is a fraught topic because, when most people think about it, their minds turn to vouchers. They envision parents getting money to use for private school tuition. That's the part that many public school educators and their advocates don't like. They're afraid that the money will drain resources from public schools and create more profits for private schools that are, for the most part, doing pretty well. But what Sen. Axtman describes is a program that goes far beyond that. Yes, it would provide some money for tuition, but the framework she and her colleagues are working toward could also make money available for people with children in public schools. Money that could be used to get a tutor for a student struggling with a subject, or to pay for online lessons to help a student pursue a particular interest like coding or languages, or even to help a student with special needs -- maybe they're dealing with dyslexia or another challenge -- get some help beyond what the schools can provide. It's a fascinating proposal, and it will be a fascinating debate in the upcoming legislative session. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts, or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive

We are 31 days away from election day and, here in North Dakota, the hottest race in the state probably isn't for the U.S. Senate, or the U.S. House, or even the governor's seat. It is, arguably, Measure 4 which, if passed, would eliminate taxes on property values and order the Legislature to compensate local governments for that loss of revenue at 2024 levels. It's such a hot issue that when Prairie Public recently hosted a debate between U.S. Senate candidates Kevin Cramer and Katrina Christiansen, they asked the candidates about Measure 4, even though that issue really has nothing to do with the federal office they're running for. Aaron Birst joined this episode of Plain Talk to discuss Measure 4, and what's driving both the support for it and opposition to it. Aaron is the executive director of the North Dakota Association of Counties. "The only tax people like is the one somebody else pays," he told Chad Oban and I. Birst isn't arguing that there are no problems with local taxing and spending. "Do we need to have a conversation about how much we spend at the local level? Sure," he said, though he argued that Measure 4 just isn't the right fix. "We can try something different. I'm just not sure we're going to find something better," he said. He also argued that passing Measure 4 could create legal and policy-making chaos that would be with North Dakota for a long time. "If this passes...we're probably going to have a decade of court cases to figure out what this means." Also on this episode, Oban and I discuss the recently-released polling in North Dakota's statewide races, and some intrigue at the North Dakota Industrial Commission. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts, or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive

Todd Reisenauer says he'd like to get elected to the North Dakota House of Representatives so that he can take Fargo-area District 46 in a new direction. He said he'd like to focus on issues like housing, healthcare, childcare, and property taxes. What he doesn't want to do, he says, is emulate the approach taken by one of incumbents in that district, state Rep. Jim Kasper, who has been in the center of debates over social issues like book bans and issues surrounding our transgender neighbors. "We can't have District 46 be the front lines of a culture war," Reisenauer told Chad Oban and I on this episode of Plain Talk. The legislative races in District 46 are worth watching. The jurisdiction represents one of the few purple districts in North Dakota and has a history of mixed-partisan leadership. Reisenauer said he admired the work done by another of the Republican incumbents in the district, outgoing Rep. Shannon Roers, who opted not to run for reeelction. He said he got interested in the race when he heard Roers was retiring, and that he wants to continue her work of making District 46 "a bipartisan, get things done kind of district." "We're burning people out," Reisenauer said, addressing the polarized nature of politics in 2024. "I'm not an activist," he added, saying he has no interested in playing partisan politics and "selling fear." "I don't want to be a part of that," he said, adding that he's "not afraid to say conservatives have good policy ideas, and that sometimes Demcorats overshoot." Also on this episode, Oban and I discuss the vice presidential debate between Sen. J.D. Vance and Gov. Tim Walz, and the news of a North Dakota man, the son of a Republican legislative candidate in District 24, getting arrested for his alleged participation in the January 6 attack on Congress. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts, or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive

Steve Bakken is the former mayor of Bismarck, and the chair of the committee backing Measure 5, which seeks to legalize recreational marijuana in North Dakota. Pat Finken is a long-time advertising professional and political activist. He's a part of the coalition opposing Measure 5. These gentleman came together on Plain Talk to make their respective cases. The contrasts in their arguments, as you might expect, were sharp. Bakken says Measure 5 is a "very conservative" legalization that gives state officials plenty of latitude to regulate lawful use of the drug. The measure "gives all the power to the state," he said. But Finken painted the measure as exacerbating North Dakota's existing problems with substance abuse. "The marijuana of today is not safe," he said. "It's ten times more powerful" than what Americans have may been smoking in past decades. He rejected the argument that marijuana legalization is inevitable, saying that even if North Dakota were the last state in the union without legal access for recreational use, he wouldn't mind it. "I'm perfectly content for North Dakota to remain an island," he said. Bakken, for his part, argued that Finken's alarmism is out of date. "That reefer madness mentality goes back to the 50s." To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts, or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive

Is Attorney General Drew Wrigley's office wasting money on unnecessary litigation? Is North Dakota's Republican majority in the Legislature being something less than good stewards of our fiscal resources by passing controversial bills that invite litigation? House Minority Leader Zac Ista, who led his caucus in voting against approving attitional litigation funds for Wrigley's office at a recent meeting of the Legislature's Budget Section committee, joined this episode of Plain Talk to discuss it. Though, given that one of the laws currently being litigated is North Dakota's restrictive ban on most abortions, that dominated the conversation, which had my co-host Chad Oban calling me "raging Rob." Admittedly, I have been a bit feisty lately. But abortion litigation isn't the only cost North Dakota is facing. The biggest line item for litigation costs recently is related to our state's suit against the federal government over the expenses associated with responding to the violent, protracted protests against the Dakota Access Pipeline. And aren't we prone to seeing the efficacy of any given litigation through the lens of our feelings about the policy being litigated? Isn't it natural that Democrats might not like the policy and legal priorities of a Republican majority, and a Republican attorney general? Rep. Ista answered those questions and more. Also on this episode, we discuss the odds of Measure 4 passing on the November ballot. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts, or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive

If you read the ballot language for Measure 3 and still didn't understand just what it is the proposed constitutional amendment does, I wouldn't blame you. I don't think that's anyone's fault. It's just a somewhat arcane topic, but that doesn't mean it's not important. State Rep. Corey Mock joined us on this episode of Plain Talk to discuss the proposal, which would make some changes around the Legacy Fund, which these days is sporting a balance of around $11 billion. Currently, lawmakers have the statutory authority to spend up to 15% of the principal of that fund. Mock said that was written into the original amendment that created the fund to ensure that at least some of it was available to lawmakers should some emergent situation make it necessary. But when the Legacy Fund was created, nobody expected it to grow as far and as fast as it has. Mock said the original projects for the fund expected it to cross the $1 billion threshold by like 2021. Clearly, we're well beyond that, but the Legislature's authority to spend as much as 15% of it has resulted in some lost opportunities. The fund managers have to keep those funds liquid, because theoretically the Legislature could come calling for them. Measure 3 shrinks that from 15% to 5%. Given that the Legacy Fund is much, much larger now than we expected when that original 15% limit was written into the constitution, lowering still leaves plenty of money available to lawmakers in an emergency, but allows the fund managers to invest more of the principal and get bigger returns. Also on this episode, guest co-host Jamie Selzler and I discuss the state of the presidential race. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts, or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive

Are the proponents of Measure 2 "elite and out of touch?" Are they "condescending" and "disrespectful" to the electorate? Or do they view North Dakota's initiated measure process -- particularly when it comes to amending the state constitution -- as flawed and needing reform? Measure 2 is a constitutional amendment placed on the ballot by the Legislature, which would prohibit people who aren't North Dakota residents from collecting petition signatures for initiated measures. It would limit measures to a single subject. And, for constitutional measures, it would raise the signature requirement from 4% to 5% of the state's population and require that those proposals be approved through two statewide votes: once on the June primary ballot and again on the November general election ballot. Ellie Shockley, a columnist for the Bismarck Tribune, joined this episode of Plain Talk to make the case against the proposal. It's her words that I'm quoting above. She views this proposed amendment as motivated by a desire among lawmakers to diminish the will of the people in making policy. Sen. Janne Myrdal, a Republican from Edinburg, also joined this episode, and she argued that it's become too easy for deep-pocketed, often out-of-state interests to hire professional signature gatherers (who themselves are often not North Dakotans) to force a vote on complicated policy proposals that aren't often explained well to the voters. This point-and-counterpoint conversation at times got heated, because it deals with some of the bedrock assumptions we make about our system of government. The political power in our republic ultimately comes from the people, but as a question of process, is legislating what are often complicated policy proposals at the ballot box where a distracted electorate, already asked to evaluate candidates for everything from weed control boards to president of the United States, really a good way to make sound policy? The Plain Talk Podcast is the voice of North Dakota politics. To subscribe, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts, like Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or YouTube, or click here for more information.

In November, North Dakota voters will be asked to decide the fate of Measure 4. If approved, it would amend the state constitution to prohibit taxes on property values. It would also lock in an obligation for the state legislature to replace current property tax revenues to local government with other revenues, but only at 2024 levels, with no mechanism to change that level in the future. On this episode of Plain Talk, we had a debate about that proposal. Making the affirmative case for it is former Fargo City Commissioner Tony Gehrig. Making the case against it is Robert Harms, a former chair of the North Dakota Republican Party who also served in the administrations of former governors Ed Schafer and John Hoeven. Former state lawmaker Rick Becker, the chair of the committee sponsoring the measure, declined to participate in the debate, saying the Plain Talk podcast is the only place where he won't speak about the proposal. Both Harms and Gehrig agree on some key issues. They say that property taxes are a problem in North Dakota in need of a solution. They both also agree that taxing property values is problematic. As property values rise, they drive almost automatic increases in tax burdens that aren't tied to local needs. Where they differ is the nature of the solution. Harms argues that abolishing property taxes would shift too much power over local spending to lawmakers in Bismarck. He also said that it "freezes some unfairness" in the state constitution by locking in funding for local governments at 2024 levels. A local government that made a big bond payment in 2024 would continue to be compensated for it by state taxpayers well into the future, even after the bond is paid off. A local government that kept property taxes low, on the other hand, would be punished for their conservative budgeting. For his part, Gehrig argued that eliminating property taxes would be an economic boon to the state, drawing new investment. During his time in office, Gehrig was an outspoken opponent of policies that seek to incent economic development by easing or eliminating property tax burdens, but he used that stance as an argument for Measure 4. "If you believe those policies work, then you have to believe in Measure 4," he said. The Plain Talk Podcast is the voice of North Dakota politics. To subscribe, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts, like Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or YouTube, or click here for more information.

"The property tax is a good tax," Jared Walczak told Chad Oban and I on this episode of Plain Talk. "You may not love it, but you will not like the alternatives better." Walczak is the state projects director for the Tax Foundation, a right-of-center think tank that focuses on -- you guessed it -- tax policy. His organization recently published an article critical of Measure 4, a constitutional amendment that would prohibit taxes on property values. Walczak has also presented his group's arguments to state lawmakers. Walczak's argument is not that North Dakotan's shouldn't feel upset about their property taxes. "There's legitimate frustration," he said. The problem is that eliminating the property tax would produce "real economic upheaval" by shifting tax burdens from a tax that "has very little economic drag" to others, like income taxes or sales taxes, which do. Eliminating the billions collected locally in property taxes would mean replacing those revenues with tax dollars collected state wide. "You're talking about essentially doubling your other taxes at the state level," Walczak argued. "No one else has done this for pretty good reasons," he said, and he's not just talking about state governments in America. He said that no other country in the developed world has eliminated its property taxes. What should North Dakota do to address the genuine public consternation over property taxes? He says state policymakers should look at caps on how much locals can raise through property taxes, coupled with some pressure relief valves that would allow the taxing jurisdictions to exceed those caps in specific circumstances, like if the voters ok the increase on the ballot. Also on this episode, Chad and I discuss the presidential debate between former President Donald Trump and Vice President Kamala Harris, including everything from Harris's facial expressions to Trump's blood libel attack on immigrants. The Plain Talk Podcast is the voice of North Dakota politics. To subscribe, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts, like Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or YouTube, or click here for more information.

North Dakota's gubernatorial race features to affable, well-liked candidates, who clearly like one another as well. Republican Kelly Armstrong was first elected to the North Dakota Senate in 2012, and served there until the 2018 election cycle, when he campaigned successfully for a seat in the U.S. House of Representatives. That's where he's currently finishing out a term, while also campaigning for governor. Democratic-NPL candidate Merrill Piepkorn has also served in the state Senate. He's been there since he was elected in 2016, and had a one-session overlap with Armstrong's service. On this Plain Talk, the two candidates compared and contrasted with one another under questioning from me and my co-host Chad Oban. We covered everything from internet pornography (Armstrong says he'd like to see North Dakota implement an ID requirement to access it), to political accountability (Piepkorn says long-time Republican supermajorities in North Dakota have created an "environment of entitlement"), to property taxes (both candidates oppose Measure 4 on the November ballot which, if passed, would abolish taxes on property values). To address North Dakota's chronic workforce shortages, Armstrong says "you have to concentrate on cops, teachers, and nurses." Piepkorn, meanwhile, says the state Legislature has been too-focused on the culture war, passing "bad bills that are repelling people." Armstrong said he's "really glad North Dakota has gotten to where it's at" on mental health issues, but added that if he's "blessed to win, in eight years we will still need more work." Piepkorn said that to address North Dakota's childcare shortages, he sees a three-pronged strategy: "help parents, help children, help businesses." These are two candidates who, again, are likable, and like one another, but they have very different visions for how North Dakota should be governed. It was our pleasure to bring their contrasting views to you on Plain Talk. Want to follow Plain Talk and be kept up to date on all of these debates? Click here for an archive of past shows and for information on how to subscribe, or just search for the show wherever you get your podcasts, including on YouTube.