Money Life with Chuck Jaffe

George Kinder, president of The Kinder Institute of Life Planning and one of the leading lights in the financial planning industry, talks about his new initiative, "Fiduciary in All Things," which seeks to apply a fiduciary standard to more than just money relationships. While most stripes of financial adviser have an obligation to act as a fiduciary -- meaning they put the client's interest ahead of their own -- Kinder believes a straightforward golden-rule like standard cold help restore civility in politics and society, would make consumers happy and would make politicians more interested in serving their voters than being reelected by them. Also on the show, Lily Vittayarukskul, chief executive officer at Waterlily -- which won the FinTech competition at the recent FinCon conference -- discusses the real costs of long-term care and how families making care decisions need to think beyond insurance to do a thorough analysis, plus Ed Slott of IRAhelp.com returns to the show to answer another question from a listener.

Financial journalist Allan Sloan, a seven-time winner of the Loeb Award -- business journalism's highest honor -- discusses his recent Fast Company column sizing up just how much money Elon Musk and his investors have lost in his dalliance with Twitter, and while the huge losses won't impact Musk's net worth, how bad deals like this do impact real people and ordinary investors who fall for the hype of a successful entrepreneur. Bryce Doty, senior portfolio manager at Sit Investments, returns to the show discussing closed-end funds and the massive discounts on muni funds -- currently at roughly 13.5 percent, compared to a historic average of about 4 percent -- and what has to happen for investors to profit from those discounts narrowing. Also returning to the show, Nancy Tengler, chief investment officer at Laffer Tengler Investments, who today discusses "The Women's Guide to Successful Investing," which she recently updated with a second edition. Plus, Ed Slott of IRAhelp.com is back to answer another question from a Money Life listener.

Dec Mullarkey, head of investment strategy and asset allocation at SLC Investments, says rate volatility has driven most market activity this year, and now the stock market is pricing in interest rate cuts toward the end of 2024. He thinks that timing is about right, but he notes that the market's fortunes for next year will rest almost entirely on the Federal Reserve, with the market understanding that the central bank has "reserved the right to be tougher here. Also on the show, Tom Lydon, vice chairman at VettaFi has his ETF of the Week, and the VCR he's discussing is not the one gathering dust in your basement, economist Lawrence Marsh discusses his book "Money Flow in a Dynamic Economy," and how changes in the way money is moving have altered the picture for both the country and the world -- and how further changes could solve many of those problems -- plus Stan Haithcock "Stan the Annuity Man" returns to answer a personal question from Chuck about whether to take a lump-sum buyout offer on an old pension or to stick with the structured payout plan.

T. Rowe Price issued its outlook for 2024 on Tuesday and Blerina Uruci, the firm's chief US economist, says that while she expects slower growth, "but I am not seeing a red flag here that indicates a recession is in the cards." She notes that forecasting has become harder in the post-COVID environment, making the margin for error higher, especially with the Federal Reserve still having work to do to bring inflation down, which "will keep uncertainty elevated for 2024." Uruci expects respectable growth, job growth and a low unemployment rate to create "a benign environment" for stocks and bonds. Also on the show, Len Estabrooks, owner of West Bridgewater Coin and Jewelry -- who Chuck and Gail went to when they sold some old jewelry and coins in September -- talks about the nuances of the cash-for-gold business, there's a Book Interview with Patrick Fisher, co-author of "The Compound Code: An Expert Guide to Trading Stocks and Options," and Ed Slott of IRAhelp.com is back to answer questions from the Money Life audience.

David Ellison, portfolio manager for the Hennessy Large-Cap and Small-Cap Financial Funds, says the struggle for banks will be "what's going to happen on the credit side as these loans re-price with the higher rates." Ellison says the economy's current strength is a function of what has happened over the last three decades, which has made the economy "stronger than people believe it is," which is why indicators like the inverted yield curve may not be accurate and functional now. Also on the show, Jennifer Burns, author of "Milton Friedman: The Last Conservative," discusses the legendary economist and his lasting impact on how today's leaders view the world, Stan Haithcock -- Stan the Annuity Man -- talks about how annuities perform and how attractive they should be to investors and savers in a higher-rate economy, and Chuck answers a listener's question about the efficacy of 60-40 portfolios, and how to allocate money around a core of target-date investments..

Ed Clissold, chief US strategist at Ned Davis Research, says he expects a choppy market through the first half of 2024, but says the market won't uncork an ugly bear market without a significant recession, which he does not currently expect. That said, the volatility and the economic conditions should help the "SHUT stocks" -- staples, health care, utilities and telecom -- which are defensive, dividend-oriented plays, currently "the most oversold they have ever been." If interest rates drop and dividend payers get a boost from investors seeking yield, Clissold believes defensive plays will have a strong rebound. Also on the show, Ed Slott of IRAhelp.com discusses the year-end tax considerations investors should be thinking about now, David Trainer of New Constructs comes up with a Thanksgiving turkey, revisiting a Danger Zone pick that has gone all the way to zero and another pick that seems headed for bankruptcy, and Sam Huisache discusses a Clever Real Estate study showing that housing prices in states that have legalized recreational cannabis use are higher and rising faster than property values in states in which marijuana remains illegal.

Jack Ablin, chief investment officer at Cresset Capital Management, says that the "hurricane" of bad economic numbers investors expected in 2023 could be a "gale force wind" in 2024, which is "something we can adjust to," which should help keep an economic downturn to a modest amount of time. Still, Ablin says that the technology sector is trading at 47 percent premium on a relative forward P/E basis to the rest of the Standard and Poor's 500, and history suggests that condition will lead to mediocre performance over the next 12 months. In The NAVigator segment, Eric Purington of the Aberdeen Global Infrastructure Income Fund, says mega-mergers involving oil giants Exxon and Chevron have implications for middle-market and midstream energy companies and infrastructure companies, because they show that larger energy companies are poised to make big investments in smaller firms, and the deals have opened the door to other mergers at all levels of the industry. Plus, in the Market Call, Dan Ives of the Wedbush ETFMG Global Cloud Technology ETF talks artificial-intelligence and cloud computing companies.

Jose Torres, senior economist at Interactive Brokers, says that America remains the best country in the world to do business in, which is going to maintain "a basement" that the economy will not slip past when it loses some steam early next year. "The consumer has assets and has jobs, and those two things will keep the economy doing all right," he says in The Big Interview. Tom Lydon, vice chairman at VettaFi, pursues really big dividends with his pick for the ETF of the Week. Claire Martin Tellis discusses a Preply.com survey showing that higher salaries don't always lead to the best job satisfaction, but lower salaries do tend to involve work that's boring. Plus, in the Market Call, Derek Izuel, chief investment officer at Shelton Capital Management, talks stocks.

Fritz Folts, chief investment strategist at 3EDGE Asset Management, says the domestic stock market "Has to go down a lot more from here to be considered at fair value," which is why he has more money working in international stocks, particularly in Japan, where markets are more fairly valued and central bankers have not had to tighten up monetary policy the way the Federal Reserve has had to in the U.S. He gives his most optimistic, pessimistic and realistic look-aheads to 2024. Ron Lieber, money columnist at The New York Times, goes off the news on his recent story about banks suddenly and unexpectedly closing down some consumer accounts without warning, leaving surprised customers at a loss and struggling to pay bills, make payrolls and more. In the Market Call, Chris Retzler of the Needham Small-Cap Growth fund discusses the struggles that smaller companies have had in a market dominated by a few big names.

Mark Luschini, chief investment strategist for Janney Montgomery Scott, says that the economic downturn everyone saw as happening this year wound up being postponed for solid economic reasons, but it hasn't been canceled and more likely just pushed back into 2024. Luschini says investors should be defensive, taking advantage of higher bond yields and not being sucked into low valuations on international investments, staying balanced but not too aggressive until the economy and market are on more solid ground. His forecast for a 2024 recession is in keeping with that of D.R. Barton Jr., chief investment strategist at Finiac, who says the market's technicals suggest that Santa Claus will be bringing a rally to town before the year ends, but that the New Year is likely to bring a recession that may be harder than most people expect after so much back and forth this year. Plus, in the Market Call, Eric Schoenstein of Jensen Investment Management talks about using quality as a factor in selecting growth stocks.

Frank Holmes, chief executive at U.S. Global Investors, says he believes interest rates have peaked, and that the economy will turn around in six months as rates start to fall, but he also believes there is plenty to carry the stock market in the short-term with the Santa Claus rally propping things up by year's end as gas prices start falling, with rate cuts also coming then to help boost the economy and the recovery. Also on the show, David Trainer, president of New Constructs revisits some "zombie stocks" that are less dangerous than in the past, but where their "good news" is not much cause for celebration. Plus Nancy Tengler, chief investment officer at Laffer Tengler Investments, talks stocks in the Market Call, and Chuck discusses the Weird Financial News.

Bryce Doty, senior portfolio manager at Sit Investment Associates, says he believes the Federal Reserve has finished hiking rates, even though it hasn't announced it. He looks at the clues in chairman Jerome Powell's remarks, and notes that this inflection point has bond yields at a great spot, noting "I can't remember a time when the real yield was as attractive as it is now." He's not the only one seeing opportunity in bonds, as Willie Delwiche of HiMount Research talks technicals and sees headwinds ahead for the stock market late in the year due to economic pressures that he expects to hit home early in 2024, but noting that bonds are poised for a long-term rally if/when interest rates start dropping. Also on the show, Steven Perry of XA Investments discusses the growth in non-listed closed-end funds and how they offer all investors -- including those without a lot of money -- the chance to get into asset classes that previously were reserved for the super wealthy and the big institutions and, in the Market Call, Rob Spivey of Valens Research talks about his firm's accounting-based methods for analyzing stocks.

BJ Webster, chief investment officer at Alera Group Wealth Management, says he does not expect the economy to have a hard landing, and while there will be discomfort, investors will survive a downturn and will see slower growth that brings down interest rates, which in turn will help to give a boost to any subsequent recovery. Webster notes that if the Federal Reserve is done hiking rates while other central banks are continuing to raise interest rates, international markets might benefit from the resulting weaker dollar, as well as current valuations that are better than on domestic stocks. Also on the show, Tom Lydon of VettaFi looks at a young high-yield fund for his ETF of the Week, Chuck puts a bow on his annual Halloween cash-or-candy, trade-or-treat fun, and Sam Burns of Mill Street Research talks stocks in the Money Life Market Call.

Peter Crane, president of Crane Data -- which publishes the Money Fund Intelligence newsletter tracking the performance of money market mutual funds -- says that high interest rates should have investors thinking about where to park and protect their cash, and to treat their cash holdings as an asset rather than an after-thought in the investment plan. He also discusses the likely path of money fund rates based on the Fed's moves. In The Book Interview, Victor Haghani, co-author of "The Missing Billionaires: A Guide to Better Financial Decisions," discusses how bad financial choices have wiped out countless family fortunes that would have grown massive had they just been managed smartly. In the Market Call, George Villere, co-manager of Villere Equity and Villere Balanced funds, talks small- and mid-cap investing.

Tom Samuelson, chief investment officer at Vineyard Global Advisors, says that the market is showing signs of breakdown, and while you can still find one or two indicators that are positive, the bearish signs are out and suggesting that there's a downturn coming, though he thinks the decline will stop short of being a "hard landing." Also on the show, Roraj Pradhananga, director of research at Veris Wealth Partners, a sustainable investment firm, talks about how current global conflicts are impacting markets, notably the energy sector, and how that is impacting the sustainable, renewable energy companies versus the fossil-fuel companies. Plus, Lester Jones discusses the results of the Business Conditions survey released Monday by the National Association for Business Economics, and Chuck answers a listener's question about how to bring money lessons to Halloween for a family that doesn't get trick-or-treating traffic so that they can't replicate Chuck's "cash or candy" holiday celebration.

Brij Khurana, fixed income portfolio manager at Wellington Management, says he expects the Federal Reserve to pause in its rate hiking cycle at its meeting this week, though that doesn't mean there won't be another rate increase at the next meeting if conditions warrant it. And under current conditions, Khurana says he is frequently asked why to go with bonds when cash can generate nice returns in bank certificates of deposit, to which he notes that bond prices are cheap right now, making this an ideal time to consider lengthening maturities as the Fed is looking at moving to the next phase of the rate cycle. Also on the show, Greg McBride talks about the latest BankRate.com study showing that Americans know they need to save more for emergencies, but are actually saving less, particularly when inflation is factored in, Kyle Guske, investment analyst at New Constructs, puts a mutual fund whose manager has been a guest on the show many times, into "The Danger Zone," noting that it has a high preponderance of dangerous stocks, and Martin Leclerc, chief investment officer at Barrack Yard Advisors, goes looking for cash producers in the Money Life Market Call.

Adam Hetts, global head of multi-asset at Janus Henderson Investors, says the economy is somewhere between a soft and hard landing, but that anyone expecting a mild recession should watch for it to last about nine months, but with the market bottoming out typically a few months before the recession ends, investors will want to stay the course through the bear market trough, rather than moving into cash to get the high current yields and play defense. With lower expected stock returns and improved bond returns, Hetts says riding out a balanced portfolio should provide both safety and growth potential. Also on the show, Cheryl Pate of the Angel Oak Financial Strategies Income Term Trust says the banking industry's wild ride since the failure of Silicon Valley Bank in March has created a strong opportunity for bank debt to outperform moving forward, Natalie Trevithick of Payden and Rygel discusses the investment-grade corporate bond market ad when investors will want to start pursuing longer-duration bonds, and Buck Klintworth of Chase Investment Counsel talks technical analysis and what it means that the Nasdaq technically moved into correction territory on Thursday.

Larry Adam, chief investment officer at Raymond James, says he expects a recession at the start of next year, but he's not nervous about it because much of the damage is already priced in and the downturn is likely to last six months, rather than the 10 months of an average recession. Moreover, with the stock market typically bottoming four to six months before a recession ends, Adam says investors may want to be buying in while the downturn is in mid-swing. Adam currently favors technology, energy, health care and financials. Tom Lydon, vice chairman at VettaFi, brings back a long-running fund powerhouse as his ETF of the Week, Chuck answers a listener's question about inflation-protected savings bonds -- with the new I-bond inflation rate having just been announced -- and absolute-value manager Brian Frank of the Frank Value Fund talks stocks in the Market Call.

David Goerz, chief executive officer at Strategic Frontier Management, says it seems "like we're muddling along at zero and sometimes we're in recession and sometimes we're not." It feels like a recession, he notes -- and it has had almost all of the key statistics at various times -- but without the unemployment issue or any big stock market correction. Goerz expects lower growth for the market moving forward, and urges safety and defense in building portfolios now. Also on the show, Tracey Spivey of the business tax services group at KPMG discusses how investors who have benefited from higher interest rates and leaned into the better yields available from fixed income investments are setting themselves up for an unpleasant tax surprise next year; plus Daniel Dusina, director of investments at Blue Chip Partners, talks brand-name companies in the Market Call.

Money Life wraps up the 20 interviews of FinCon. A gathering of financial content creators and fin-tech entrepreneurs held in New Orleans last week - with Benjamin Nadelstein of Monetary Metals talking about how to generate yield on your gold holdings, Logan Smyth of the TRADR Market Analytics app on technical analysis, Kalilah Reynolds discussing the ups and downs of the Jamaican Stock Market, Jenni Sisson on how inflation is hitting the foot soldiers of the home front, and Joe Saul-Sehy of the Stacking Benjamins on the good and bad of financial content creation in today's tough economic environment.

It's the third day of interviews taped at FinCon in New Orleans -- an annual gathering of financial content creators -- and one big focus of the conversations is inflation. That will be a big part of conversations today, when the interviews start with Jen Smith of the Frugal Friends podcast, moving into a chat with Scott Carson from The Note Closers Show and -- after a break to talk personal finance with David Zaegel from the Retire With Confidence podcast -- inflation is a big part of the talk with John Blizzard, head of CDValet.com, a site that helps consumers with certificates of deposit. The show concludes with conversations with Clifton Corbin, a financial educator and author of "Your Kids, Their Money," and Paula Pant of the Afford Anything podcast, who discusses why so many Americans are upset over inflation and financial conditions at a time when they actually have it pretty good.

It's Day Two of Money Life at FinCon, and Chuck again explores the rich tapestry of the financial world talking about the business of podcasting with Virginia Elder of Podcast Abundance, improving the financial awareness and habits in the Hispanic culture with financial educator Dario Martinez of Sal de la Olla, stock investing with CPA Mark Roussin -- the "Dividend Seeker" on YouTube -- the financial difficulties and differences of America's service men and women with Lacey Langford of the Military Money Show, and the ways that taxes can impact and delay retirement with "FITaxGuy" Sean Mullaney. Plus, John Cole Scott of Closed-End Fund Advisors and the Active Investment Company Alliance reviews a rough third quarter in closed-end funds in The NAVigator.

Money Life goes to the Fin Con Expo this week, with Chuck in New Orleans at the annual gathering of financial content creators, which is a mix of bloggers, podcasters, freelance writers, fin tech companies and forward-thinking financial minds, and you will hear from Preston Yadegar of Shareholder Vote Exchange (a company helping investors sell the votes on their shares), David Edey of the Executor Help podcast, Anthony Rushing of First Loan HELOC (which is working to help investors use credit lines to replace mortgages to save on home ownership and interest costs), and fraud expert Kathy Stokes of AARP. Plus, every Thursday starts with the ETF of the Week, and Tom Lydon of VettaFi does something he has not done in the history of Money Life, namely pick a fund that is NOT an ETF, though it has aspirations -- and hopes -- of being one someday.

For years, Chuck has offered the kids in his neighborhood a chance to pick cash or candy, to decide between a trade or a treat. Every Halloween, however, Chuck tweaks the game, making a few subtle changes to keep things interesting for him and the kids. This year, he is changing something he never expected to change, ever, and he talks about how Halloween will work at his house -- and maybe yours if you follow suit -- come Oct. 31. Plus, Andrew Krei, co-chief investment officer at Crescent Grove Advisors, talks about how the higher-for-longer rate environment -- coupled with the narrow stock market -- has given investors an opportunity to reposition and rebalance portfolios to play defense while being compensated with better yields, but he does warn that there may be more maneuvering to do once rates start to fall again. Matt Schulz, chief credit analyst at LendingTree discusses record credit-card rates and the alarming number of lenders now issuing cards with a 29.99 percent rate or higher. In the Market Call, Tom McIntyre of McINtyre Freedman and Flynn -- the first-ever Market Call guest in the history of the show -- returns to discuss where current events have him investing now.

John Kosar, chief market strategist at Asbury Research, says the stock market hit a key support level at the beginning of October, which typically has been triggering market rebounds. As a result, he sees current conditions as a "low-risk, high opportunity" place to put money to work in the market now. Mary Ryan, senior wealth advisor at The Vanguard Group, discusses the firm's research showing that investors who have the option of contributing to a health-savings account can goose their long-term investment returns by prioritizing the HSA, rather than thinking of it solely as a savings account to pay for medical costs. She suggests that savers turn to HSAs higher in their priority list for savings, just behind getting the free money of an employer's matching monies, but ahead of additional retirement-plan contributions and Roth IRAs. Plus, Allison Hadley covers a survey by AllStarHome.com on the financial impacts of living at home or in their hometown, and Gerry Frigon of Taylor Frigon Capital Management talks about buying growth stocks in the Market Call.

Craig Callahan, founder and chief executive officer at ICON Advisers and the ICON Funds, says that he's not seeing the overpricing you'd expect at a market peak or the bargains visible in typical market bottoms, so he expects the market to "drift higher" over the next six to nine months. But those gains will be led by different stocks and sectors than what drove the market to gains earlier this year. Callahan says the market has turned since May 31, with energy leading, and economically sensitive areas like financials have been strong too; "that really narrow market that we didn't think made sense, it ended May 31st" he said. "We're in a new market now." Also on the show, Kyle Guske, investment analyst at New Constructs revisits a stock that has been in the Danger Zone for years, but that has rebounded well this year to set up the next round of troubles, John Cabble of J.D. Power discusses the firm's latest look into payment patterns and looks at the deteriorating credit situation for most Americans, and Bob Olstein, founder and chief investment officer at Olstein Capital Management discusses stock investing in the Market Call.

Brian Andrew, chief investment officer at Johnson Financial Group, sees more potential negative economic outcomes than positive ones, ranging from a likely recession to possible stagflation, which should keep investors cautious but looking for opportunities in the year ahead. While he worries about the troubles ahead -- particularly with two wars in the world right now -- Andrew says he does not expect a deep global recession, but something more isolated and affecting some pockets of the market -- like interest-rate sensitive businesses -- harder than the rest. Also on the showm, harder than others. Roxanna Islam of VettaFi discusses how ETFs that buy closed-end funds have held up in a year when closed-end funds have delivered high yields but low total returns and seen widening discounts. Dan Passarelli, founder/chief executive, Market Taker Mentoring says the market is currently stuck between its 50 and 200 day moving averages, which makes movement hard to determine but which is creating short-term volatility conditions that are favorable for traders. Plus Rob Thummel, senior portfolio manager at TortoiseEcofin, talks about hwo dividend-hungry investors are going to find what they want moving forward in the energy sector.

Nate Thooft, chief investment officer at Manulife Investment Management, says that the strength of domestic stocks has been such that they are overpriced relative to international issues, which is why he has been light on U.S. equities of late. Thooft expects equity conditions to change at some point in the next year as a recession sets in, bringing with it "value destruction" that . Once that happens and there's been some "value destruction," it will be time to be more excited about stocks, but particularly the domestic issues. Also on the show, Tom Lydon, vice chairman at VettaFi, makes an active-income strategy his ETF of the Week, Matt Brannon discusses research from Clever Real Estate showing that one in four Americans is falling deeper into credit-card debt each month, and Clark Kendall, president of Kendall Capital Management, talks stocks in the Market Call.

Ron Sanchez, chief investment officer at Fiduciary Trust Company International, says that stock valuations are running high right now, making it that "the compensation for equity isn't nearly as good as it has been for the better part of a decade," which has made fixed-income investments look like a better bargain. Moreover, while Sanchez is calling for a soft landing economically and believes that the Federal Reserve is done raising interest rates, it is creating opportunities for bond investors now. Jeff Muhlenkamp, portfolio manager at the Muhlenkamp Fund does the Market Call, noting that the fund has put some money to work in the six months since he was last on the show, but explaining why he's not fully invested now and doesn't expect to be for a while, and noting that individual investors might follow his lead. Plus, Russel Kinnel, director of manager research at Morningstar, discusses research showing how money flows into or out of funds after changes are made to the firm's medalist and star ratings, noting that while star ratings continue to have the biggest impact on fund flows, the medalist ratings -- done with the input of analysts instead of based entirely on quantitative measures -- are having a greater impact than in the past.

Patrick Luce, economist at ITR Economics, says that current economic trends are building a storm that will result in a depression in the 2030s, and a small recession next year, but he notes that investors should treat the 2024 decline as a buying opportunity, positioning themselves for the market to pick up before the big trouble comes in the next decade. And while Luce sees that big event damaging portfolios, he notes that prepared investors will build portfolios leading up to it, and be positioned to profit as the market rebounds out of it long-term. Will Rhind, chief executive officer at GraniteShares, returns to the show to discuss single-stock ETFs and the various flavors of them -- long, short and leveraged -- that his firm has unleashed and how investors should approach them. Also, Steven Benna of travel-insurance company Squaremouth discusses how travelers are expecting trip costs to be higher next year, and why those higher prices are not just about global inflation, and forensic accountant Tracy Coenen is back for the final installment of "Find Me The Money," talking about how anyone concerned about getting a fair share in divorce should also be looking at estate planning and other ways to make sure their families and heirs get their just due, especially in situations of second marriages and blended families.

Alan Gayle, president of Via Nova Investment Management, says that the current negativity around the bond market has hidden "the opportunity [longer-term investors] have been waiting for," noting that government and investment-grade corporate bonds are now delivering the kind of yield that -- after years of bonds paying nothing -- can help achieve long-term income goals. Gayle does not believe a recession is happening soon, but as consumers lose strength -- and they have since the start of the year -- and the impact of rising rates eventually hurt economic growth rates, the likelihood of trouble late next year or beyond increases. Also on the show, economist Jack Kleinhenz discusses the latest Outlook Survey from the National Association for Business Economics -- released today -- showing that less than half of the surveyed economists expect a recession now. Plus David Trainer of New Constructs puts a stock in the Danger Zone that he thinks is due for a big miss during the upcoming earnings season, and Janet Brown of the FundX Upgrader Funds and the No-Load Fund*X newsletter, talks funds and ETFs in the Market Call.

Matt Gertken, chief strategist, global and U.S. political strategy at BCA Research, says that higher levels of leadership uncertainty lead to lower stock prices, and that the peak polarization in U.S. politics has taken the government's eyes off the ball when it comes to the actions of Russia and China, which could lead to policy mistakes and real costs on Americans in the global marketplace. Gertkin explains that the political gridlock is not all bad news for investors, noting that it restricts how far either side can go in blowing out the budget, but says that a recession is likely to lead to one party being swept into control. Jerremy Newsome of Real-Life Trading says the market's recent pullback "is a healthy rotation on the general broader uptrend of the markets," meaning that declines are buying opportunities because the market has room to run higher and is showing signs that it will, although much of that continuing rally may still be in mega-cap names. In The NAVigator segment, Robert Bush, director of closed-end products at Calamos Investments, says that discounts have widened to nearly 10 percent this year, and while closed-end funds haven't participated much in 2023's gains, they have become attractively priced, even though they are being challenged by many other investments when it comes to delivering good yields to investors. In the Market Call, Jeffrey DeMaso, editor, The Independent Vanguard Adviser, talks about "buying the manager, not the fund" to build a portfolio.

Steve Rick, chief economist at TruStage, expects the economy to slow in 2024 -- resulting in "a growth recession" rather than a traditional full-blown economic meltdown -- likely staving off a major stock market decline. Rick says he has heard from more nervous bank and credit union top dogs who are scared about economic conditions than at any time in his 30 plus year career and he worries that a slowdown in lending could be a trigger for something bigger and worse than he currently expects. Also on the show, Tom Lydon, vice chairman, VettaFi make a managed-futures fund his pick for ETF of the Week, Chuck talks the $1.2 billion Powerball jackpot from Wednesday night and why the lump-sum payment was one of the lowest any big-prize distributions in years, plus Brian Drubetsky -- manager of the Cullen Small Cap Value Strategy fund -- talks small- and mid-sized stocks in the Market Call.

Bill Stone, chief investment officer at Glenview Trust, says that third-quarter earnings season is likely to be where the market turns the corner to get positive year-o-ver-year comparisons, which may help the market get past the hurdle of higher interest rates and higher yields which has been a big reason why the market has struggled to have a broad-based rally this year. Stone says recession has been delayed, not canceled, though it could be well into next year before that happens. Also on the show, Simeon Hyman, global investment strategist at ProShares, discusses the firm's new funds based on ether futures; ether is the world's second-largest cryptocurrency behind bitcoin, and was the subject of new funds released by three different fund companies this week. In the Market Call, Bryan Armour, director of passive strategies research at Morningstar, discusses exchange-traded funds.

Adam Grimes, president of Talon Advisors, says in the Talking Technicals segment that he expects "strength coming into the end of the year," with the stock market re-touching and potentially breaking all-time highs, but "from that point, I will get pretty defensive" because of the "very significant selloff" he expects in stocks. Grimes notes that he expects a protracted bear market for stocks, which doesn't change his long-term positive outlook for equities but which he says will hurt investors who haven't seen that kind of downturn in about 15 years. Nobel Prize winner Sir Angus Deaton returns to the show to discuss his new book, "Economics in America: An Immigrant Economist Explores the Land of Inequality," which is out today and which discusses how societal problems were exacerbated by economic platitudes and not enough attention paid to workers and the poor living through trouble. Plus, forensic accountant Tracy Coenen returns with the latest "Find Me The Money" segment, talking about the right way to hire an attorney to help guide you through the divorce process, and Chuck discusses a recent statement from Dave Ramsey about how easily the well-known financial guru has "beaten the market" over the last three decades.

David Trainer, founder and president at New Constructs, says that Affirm Holding's gains this year -- the stock has more than doubled year-to-date -- have fooled investors into thinking there might be value in the purveyor of buy now, pay later programs, so he put the company back in "The Danger Zone" for the third time in three years. Trainer noted that the stock -- despite this year's gains -- is down more than 80 percent from when he first said it was headed for trouble in 2021, and he says the firm remains a "zombie stock," likely to run out of money within two years. Also on the show, Mark Hamrick, senior economic analyst/Washington bureau chief at BankRate.com discusses the agreement in Congress that allowed Congress to avoid a government shutdown this weekend, but what lies ahead for lawmakers and the economy, financial adviser Eric Beiley of the Beiley Group worries about the economic troubles ahead and suggests bak CDs as a possible alternative for investors who want to be on the sidelines now, waiting for trouble to pass. In the Market Call, Art Amador of Equbot -- which oversees the AI Powered Equity ETF -- discusses artificial intelligence driving investment decisions.

Craig Johnson, chief market technician at Piper Sandler, says "the trend between here and year-end is up, and 4,825 [on the Standard and Poor's 500] is my objective, and he expects the rally to broaden -- moving beyond the Magnificent Seven that have led to this point in the year -- and spreading into small- and mid-cap stocks. Chris Huemmer, senior client portfolio manager, at Flexshares, talks about why he believes real assets and natural resources play are important to help balance out a portfolio in the conditions that lie ahead; he also likes parts of the bond market -- notably junk bonds -- disdained by most of the show's recent guests. Duncan Farley, manager of the BlueBay Destra International Event-Driven Credit Fund -- which Morningstar places at the very top of its peer group over its five-year existence -- talks about how special situations are plentiful in the current marketplace, but the risks associated with those better yields are not so high as to turn off investors who can get 5 percent yields on money-market accounts. Plus, in the Market Call, Jordan Kahn, chief investment officer at HCR Wealth Advisors, talks stocks in the Market Call.

Victoria Fernandez, chief market strategist at Crossmark Global Investments, says it typically takes about a year from the start of a rate-hike cycle to impact the revenues of companies and then another nine months before layoffs and other fallout hits home. She says soft landings require increases in government spending, banks to ease lending requirements and labor costs coming down, and those factors aren't in the cards. Coupled with higher energy costs, the continuing strain on consumers and more, Fernandez says the economy and market is likely to take a hit early next year. Also on the show, Tom Lydon of VettaFi hums the tune of a new specialty fund for his ETF of the Week, Catherine Collinson of the Transamerica Center for Retirement Studies discusses their new research -- out today -- showing how the expectations of pre-retirees differ from the realities experienced by actual retirees, and Adam Peck of Riverwater Partners talks social investing in the Market Call.

Emily Roland, co-chief investment strategist at John Hancock Investment Management, says that there is a lot of value opening up in fixed income, allowing bonds to do "more heavy lifting" in a portfolio than in recent years. She notes that bonds will ride out the choppy market until a recession sets in and yields fall precipitously, at which point bond prices will rise, goosing returns amid an economic contraction. Roland made it clear she does not believe in a no-landing" outcome, but she says "the time to prepare a roof is when the sun is shining," and investors should be working on their portfolios now. Also on the show, financial advisor Chris Collins discusses the latest results from Northwestern Mutual's 2023 Planning and Progress Study, which showed that even millionaires -- and a surprising number of them -- worry that they will outlive their money, Chuck discusses how podcast host "Dr. Matt, the Cash-Flow King" wound up being charged this week with running a Ponzi scheme, and Will Rhind of GraniteShares discusses "disruptive stocks" in the Market Call.

Adam Turnquist, chief technical strategist at LPL Financial, says that while he expects the stock market to challenge its support levels and take a small step back soon, he expects "a buying opportunity between now and year-end" because the market cycle has plenty of strength -- particularly in industrial and energy stocks -- to keep the bullish phase running. Still, he expects a recession early in 2024, but says the market is prepared for a downturn that he expects to be short and shallow. In the Book Interview, Princeton University history professor Michael Blaakman discusses America's first market mania, the land rush of Revolutionary times and how it dictated much of what the country has seen and done since. Forensic accountant Tracy Coenen returns for another episode of "Find Me The Money," talking about protecting your finances post-divorce, making a clean break on joint accounts, updating beneficiaries to retirement accounts and insurance policies and stopping an ex from accessing new credit in your name. In the Market Call, Chuck Carlson of Horizon Investment Services -- editor of The DRIP Investor newsletter -- talks stocks and has five potential buys during the "Quick and Dirty" portion of the interview.

David Trainer, founder and president at New Constructs, puts an initial public offering into the Danger Zone for the third straight week, always jumping on deals he considers overpriced before they are even out of the box. Trainer says that this week's pick, Birkenstock, is another company that can show profits, but where the private-equity backers are pushing to get way more for those profits than the market is paying for the competition. Trainer's last two picks -- ARM Holdings and Maplebear (Instacart) -- have dropped below their IPO pop prices almost immediately after coming out. In The Big Interview, Stash Graham of Graham Capital Wealth Management, says that"there is pain ahead" for the economy; he says the business cycle starting to shift in ways where the higher cost of capital caused by increased interest rates and the struggles consumers and businesses are seeing due to lingering inflation are going to hit home and create serious market problems. Plus, Ted Rossman discusses Bankrate.com's latest study, which shows that many consumers are responding to current conditions by starting their holiday shopping now, and James Abate, manager of the five-star Centre American Select Equity Fund, talks stocks in the Market Call.

Jeanette Garretty, chief economist at Robertson Stephens Wealth Management, says that Federal Reserve chairman Jerome Powell's message this week was largely positive -- suggesting we're "in a mode to get a soft landing" -- but the market seized on confusing parts where he suggested that the central bank is not afraid of going through some pain. Garretty notes that there are already plenty of "pain points" already visible in the economy, but that it hasn't created real trouble yet. The question, she noted, is whether that pain will be felt down the line. Also on the show, John Cole Scott of Closed-End Fund Advisors talks about how muni-bond closed-end funds have seen discounts widening well past historic norms -- but notes that investors may want to be cautious before diving in -- Chuck answers a listener's question on unit investment trusts, and Matt Fox, president of Ithaca Wealth Management, says that technical indicators suggest the market will challenge support levels -- taking a small setback -- before they can start to make the next leg up.

Doug Roberts, chief investment strategist at Channel Capital Research, says the Federal Reserve is putting "arrows in the quiver" to deal with a recession if it happens, but that the central bankers have signaled that "if there's a rough landing ... they won't be so quick to react to it." Roberts says the economy remains strong -- and that the U.S. is still the best market in the world -- despite the market acting like it's in a correction. He sees the narrow, large-cap rally continuing for the foreseeable future. Plus, Tom Lydon, vice chairman at VettaFi, picks up on the quality theme he discussed a week ago, but turns in the small-cap direction with his "ETF of the Week," Chuck goes off the news with a consumer story that impacts every adult in the country -- and which serves as a reminder to take care of your financial chores -- and Tom Graff, head of investments at Facet, returns to the Market Call to discuss exchange-traded funds.

Sir Angus Deaton, a Nobel Prize winning economist and Princeton University professor, says that economic policy for the last few decades has paid little to no attention to "the negative consequences of trade, of disruption, of people losing their jobs to automation to globalization and what-not" and he thinks the Inflation Reduction Act has started to reverse that, though the progress maybe short-lived given current politics. Deaton weighs in on the UAW strike and the importance of unions and what he sees as the best possible outcome not only of the current situation but in the ways Corporate America and workers will deal with technological improvements from here. Also on the show, Miles Tullo discusses the latest research from J.D. Power on consumer preferences at the point of sale; debit cards are the not-surprising winner, but alternative methods -- including buy-now-pay-later choices -- are increasingly popular. Plus, portfolio manager Andrey Kutusov of Seven Canyons Advisors, talks international growth investing in the Market Call.

Investigative reporter Zeke Faux, author of "Number Go Up: Inside Crypto's Wild Rise and Staggering Fall," discusses his adventures covering the cryptocurrency market, from connecting with Sam Bankman-Fried before the collapse of FTX to attending "ApeFest," convincing his wife to let him spend $20,000 on an NFT as part of his book research and more. He also notes that despite its trading popularity, having crypto used as currency remains a struggle, even in the countries that have tried to adopt its usage. Forensic accountant Tracy Coenen talks about digging into the more obscure and esoteric documents -- insurance policies, car titles, estate-planning paperwork and more -- and making a timeline to help uncover forgotten or missing accounts (something Chuck experienced personally in his own case) in the latest installment of "Find Me The Money," and Mike Venuto, chief investment officer at Tidal Financial Group talks ETFs in the Markt Call.

Andrew Foster, founder and chief investment officer at Seafarer Capital Partners, says that stock prices in emerging markets are depressed -- understandably so -- but he thinks they have been too beaten down, which makes the case for emerging markets as a value play right now. That said, Foster says there is not a strong argument for growth investing in emerging markets now because struggles in China, the hub of the emerging markets, are tamping down the potential for growth in the asset class. Foster notes that China has been decoupling from U.S. markets, and visa versa, which is changing the international markets picture and the outcomes likely based on international politics. Also on the show, David Trainer of New Constructs is back with another IPO that he believes is rotten from the get-go, opening into troubling conditions that will lead to trouble once the market's honeymoon with the new offering is over, and we revisit a recent Marekt Call interview with Stephen Dodson, portfolio manager at The Bretton Fund.

Michael Baron, portfolio manager for the Baron Partners Fund, explains how the fund came to have nearly half of its portfolio in one stock -- Tesla -- and how his confidence in the company may lead for those holdings to become an even bigger portion of the portfolio. Just as importantly, Baron explains how the Tesla example highlights the way active management and good stock picking can still beat the indexes and deliver superior returns. Also on the show, Carley Garner, senior commodity strategist at DeCarley Trading, explains that a wave of mostly negative sentiment among traders has the market poised to finish out the year relatively strong, provided it can get through some short-term bumps now, Colin McBurnette of the Angel Oak Funds discussed how the high-rate, high-inflation environment have set up the housing and mortgage market to deliver at a time when headlines suggest that real estate is troubled. Plus, in the Market Call, Noland Langford, chief executive at Left Brain Wealth Management, returns to the show to talk growth stocks.

Whitney Tilson, founder and chief executive officer at Empire Financial Research, says he expects the market to be flat to slightly up for the remainder of 2023 -- gaining about 5 percent on top of the 17 percent gains thus far -- and then gaining another 10 to 15 percent in 2023. He expects the "sanguine, strong" economic environment to continue despite the skepticism that has been present -- but which hasn't really slowed anything -- this year. Also on the show, Tom Lydon of VettaFi dives into factor ETFs with his pick for "ETF of the Week," and Eric Marshall, president and portfolio manager at Hodges Capital Management talks stocks in the Market Call.

Jeff Rosenkranz, manager of the Shelton Tactical Credit Fund, says the economy and rate cycle are both reaching inflection points, making it tricky to make moves in fixed income without risking being wrong and facing punishment that's "severe". As such, he suggests moving up in credit quality, avoiding undue risks and starting to lengthen maturities, planning for rates to start going lower in six to nine months when the Federal Reserve has pushed the economy to where inflation finally recedes. Also on the show, Toby Eng discusses the latest results from Northwestern Mutual's 2023 Planning and Progress Study, showing that nearly one-third of Americans lose sleep at least once a month due to financial uncertainties. In the Market Call, Conrad Doenges, chief investment officer at Ranger Investment Management, makes his first appearance on the show and discusses small-and micro-cap investing.

Michael Kahn, senior market analyst at Lowry Research Corp., says the trend since October of last year remains up, despite the corrective nature of the last six weeks; that push and pull makes it that Kahn suggests buying only a few solid choices but not buying broadly or getting widely invested because the market's 'just not there at the moment.' Lowry notes that small-cap companies are struggling and he wants to see a resurgence in small-caps to get happy about the market's resurgence and prospects. In The Book Interview, best-selling author Diana Henriques discusses her newest effort -- 'Taming the Street: The Old Guard, the New Deal, and FDR's Fight to Regulate American Capitalism' -- which is out today. In the latest episode of 'Find Me The Money,' forensic accountant Tracy Coenen dives into the high cost -- and the spent money that might be recovered -- in cases of romantic infidelity, and Chuck discusses taking some old coins and jewelry to a gold buyer, and what he learned from the process.