Gender: A Wider Lens

On this episode of Gender: A Wider Lens, Stella & Sasha sit down with Dr. Michael Biggs, Associate Professor of Sociology at the University of Oxford and a Fellow of St Cross College. Dr. Biggs has been key in uncovering vital information that led to the independent Cass Review on GIDS at Tavistock. Biggs has since turned his laser-like focus on the Dutch Protocol and in this episode, he discusses many of the issues with this flawed model. His distinguished body of work includes articles on social movements and collective protest published in all the leading disciplinary journals, including the American Journal of Sociology, American Sociological Review, British Journal of Sociology, and Social Forces. In this conversation, Dr. Biggs tells the story of his experience as a professor in a graduate sociology program when he encountered pushback from students about discussing gender identity from a sociological perspective as part of a classroom exercise. Dr. Biggs has a longstanding history of advocating on behalf of LGBT issues and found himself puzzled when students questioned his intentions. He decided to dig into the literature to try to understand where and how the topic of gender generated such surprising responses from a few of his students. After diving deep into pediatric gender medicine, he continued pursuing investigations into the unreported outcomes for patients at the largest pediatric gender clinic in the world, the Tavistock’s Gender Identity Development Services (GIDS). After a lack of response when he requested information from the GIDS directly, Dr. Biggs filed a Freedom of Information request to access data about research and treatment protocols being conducted at the clinic. Ultimately, the buried outcomes of using puberty blockers in children and adolescents were far less than positive. Biggs began to wonder: how was the puberty blocker pathway worthy of its reputation as the “gold standard” for pediatric transgender care? Where was the research to back up that claim? What motivated Michael to dedicate so much effort to learning and reporting on medical experimentation in gender-affirming care? Dr. Biggs describes feeling compelled to a sense of duty and responsibility to use his privilege to fight for academic truth. His pursuit of the truth, along with that of several other key “whistleblowers” from within Tavistock itself, ultimately yielded momentum for the systematic “Cass Review.” The review process took over two years, but the interim findings reported in late 2022 ultimately resulted in the closure of the GIDS clinic.Links:Puberty Blockers and Suicidality in Adolescents Suffering from Gender Dysphoriahttps://rdcu.be/c4YpUThe Dutch Protocol for Juvenile Transsexuals: Origins and Evidencehttps://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/0092623X.2022.2121238?scroll=top&needAccess=true&role=tabGender Trender — 4th wave nowhttps://4thwavenow.com/2018/11/17/wordpress-dumps-gendertrender-gallus-mag-responds/The Wrong Body (video series - viewing requests available from the British Film Institute)Part 1 - https://www2.bfi.org.uk/films-tv-people/4ce2b80c5d9ba Part 2 - https://www2.bfi.org.uk/films-tv-people/4ce2b7f121f1bIf you liked this... This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

Sasha & Stella take a walk down “memory lane,” recalling the evolution of events and circumstances that lead them each towards a deeper concentration on gender identity exploration in their work. With very different stories to tell, they each share their observations of society at large and describe their individual experiences within the culture of their communities and in their workspaces. They explain what intrigued them and led them to explore deeper questions about identity development, dive into the research behind gender affirmative care and gender reassignment surgery, gender stereotypes, and basic human development in general.They also reflect on how they began working with families and individuals impacted by gender. Their stories both lead up to how their work around gender identity development connected them and ultimately inspired the creation of this show and its rapidly-growing listener base. In its first two years, their collaboration podcast, Gender: A Wider Lens, has curated over 100 hours of in-depth interviews, personal stories, and psychological exploration. Together, Stella O’Malley and Sasha Ayad probe the gender landscape within contemporary culture, considering the implications of prioritizing personal identity over other aspects of the self.The show has endured some pretty pivotal shifts in the cultural and political climate involving gender dysphoria and its treatments in practice on a global scale. In this episode, Sasha & Stella share their vision for the future of the show as well as the opportunities they anticipate which might broaden the scope of resources available to families and gender dysphoric individuals: resources that go beyond the affirmative approach. Together, the hosts of the popular podcast celebrate the pathways that lead them to each other, the development of the show, and the trajectory ahead for their continued exploration of gender from a wider lens.Reviews:https://rephonic.com/podcasts/gender-a-wider-lens-podcasthttps://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/gender-a-wider-lens-podcast-stella-omalley-FeB50G1PCt8/GDSN:https://genderdysphoriasupportnetwork.com/Stella’s Film: Trans Kids: It’s Time to Talk:http://www.stellaomalley.com/trans-kids-time-to-talkSupport the Show:https://linktr.ee/widerlenspodFor more about our sponsors, visit:ReIME— https://rethinkime.org/Genspect — https://genspect.org/Extended NotesSasha led her school’s first Gay-Straight Alliance (GSA) when she witnessed confusion about identity in the kids she worked with.Sasha was compelled to make a difference but was overwhelmed by the response she received.As a child, Stella was uncomfortable being a girl and knew she would be better as a boy. She was filled with shame and embarrassment.When Stella encountered a trans person she presumed their experience was like hers but they had transitioned.In Ireland, Stella has released three best-selling books, Cotton Wool Kids, Bully-proof Kids, and Fragile.In 2018, Stella’s husband encouraged her to... This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

This episode is being rereleased as part of our Top 5 Episodes of 2022 Countdown! Wesley Yang, an essayist and public intellectual, has written extensively about 21st-century America and the liminal position of the non-black, non-white person. Coining the term "successor ideology" in 2019, Wesley has carefully analyzed this particular kind of ideology among left-wing movements that is centered around identity politics. Wesley has recently turned his attention towards gender issues and, in this episode, he delivers a blistering analysis of how gender has become a socio-political juggernaut, infiltrating society in every possible way. His substack features his writing, and the writing of other authors who are covering all the shocking twists and turns in the gender debates. He is also covering the release of the new WPATH Standards of Care, and the subsequent talks given about various chapters, including the now infamous eunuch chapter. As you’ll hear Wesley has a truly incisive mind and dynamic voice, and we’re so thrilled he’s pointing his attention towards pediatric transition and the horrible treatment parents receive when they attempt to protect their children. We’ll just let him speak for himself: here is Wesley Yang. Links: Wesley Yang’s Substack: https://wesleyyang.substack.com/ Wesley Yang’s Twitter: https://mobile.twitter.com/wesyang The Face of Seung-Hui Cho https://www.nplusonemag.com/issue-6/essays/face-seung-hui-cho/ Book the souls of yellow folk https://amzn.to/3BCtziO Eliza mongreen transexceptionalism and kids twitter https://twitter.com/elizamondegreen/status/1494299809297178633?s=20&t=yF8H9TotYE_4ENzc41_JIg Swedish Documentary The Trans Train: Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJGAoNbHYzk&t=265s Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73-mLwWIgwU Part 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3WqLT9NEnU Billboard Chris on Wesley’s Youtube: https://youtu.be/AlacNs0b6Jw Teacher with gigantic prosthetic breasts is defended in Ontario: This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

This episode is being rereleased as part of our Top 5 Episodes of 2022 Countdown! We have completed eleven interviews and today we analyze the second half of our Pioneers Series. Stella and I discuss the psychological and emotional impact of some recent interviews. We review the shocking discussions we’ve had with several of our guests and reflect on the flawed Dutch Protocol, which is often held up as the gold standard in childhood dysphoria medical treatment. Dr. Anne Lawrence’s reflections on Autogynephilia and the extreme measures she feels some might take are discussed in the context of the Dutch researcher’s interview. We also think back about the role Az Hakeem’s groups will play when we examine this period in hindsight, years down the line. Perhaps Susan Bradley is right about ASD being a large explanatory factor in understanding gender dysphoria more broadly. We also look at the Samoan Prime Minister’s response to the Olympic Weightlifting competition: arguably the leaders of integrating male femininity into their society, the Samonas had sharp words for the Pacific Games Council’s admission of trans MtF lifter, Laurel Hubbard, in competing against two Samoan women.We’re wrapping up this season and we’ll be returning to our regular weekly programs with our next episode on May 20th. If you are a Patron, thank you! And don’t fret: we’ll continue recording our weekly Q&As and posting them on Patreon. Thanks for listening!Extended NotesStella and Sasha, being therapists, naturally ask questions to gain understanding of one’s thinking. They talk about the psychological and emotional toll this series had on them.They first analyze their conversation with Thomas Steensma and Annelou de Vries. Sasha shares what stood out to her.Stella also touches on her thoughts and why she sees avoidance tactics as anti-psychological.They explain what the gender dysphoria scale is all about.The entire premise of the puberty blockers experiment is based on the so-called success of the gender dysphoria scale. They both share their disagreements with these methods.Sasha talks about the unethical assumptions made with their studies.They move on to analyze their conversation with Anne Lawrence and how both their mouths dropped when she talked about castration.Stella asks why obsession is not being brought into this rather than just focusing on it as a gender identity topic.Sasha shares her thoughts about the dismissive counseling she has noticed in general.They both talk about their understanding of the depth of Anne’s suffering through her experience.Sasha evaluates Anne’s actions and responses as an obsession to a rejection of a body part, which is common in most Aspy people.Stella thinks there is still so much to be done on autistic diagnosis brainwork and she is looking forward to the next 15‒20 years.Everyone has a very high regard for the Dutch model, implying that they are being very careful but they both disagree.Sasha recalls how Steensma and de Vries may have perceived them as activists in their line of questioning.Stella and Sasha share more feedback about the Dutch study if they truly wanted it to be neutral and inclusive.What if the whole premise of the gender dysphoria scale is flawed? Sasha asks in retrospect.We shouldn’t really change something unless we have a really clear understanding of what the current state of affairs is. Stella reflects on this against puberty blockers.They share how off-putting it was for them to talk about the human body in a flippant manner.What if Jazz Jennings was put on this gender dysphoria scale? Stella and Sasha talk about their disappointment further.Stella mentions Az Hakim and how she admires his approach vs. the rigid coldness of the so-called... This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

This episode is being rereleased as part of our Top 5 Episodes of 2022 Countdown! Jesse Singal was instrumental in shining a light on the defamation of Dr. Ken Zucker in 2016. Then, two years later, he became even more widely known in the gender world for his seminal, long-form piece in the Atlantic, “When a Child Says She’s Trans.” In this conversation, we discuss flaws in the science of gender dysphoria treatment and the misrepresentation of research findings in the media. We also look at the recent pronouncements from the Biden Administration, new state legislation, and Health and Human Services proposals. We discuss how all of this impacts our understanding of complex issues and shapes the American political landscape around gender today.Links:Jesse’s Recent book: The Quick Fix: Why Fad Psychology Can’t Cure our Social Ills https://amzn.to/3yIVwpn Researchers Found Puberty Blockers And Hormones Didn’t Improve Trans Kids’ Mental Health At Their Clinic. Then They Published A Study Claiming The Opposite. (Updated) https://jessesingal.substack.com/p/researchers-found-puberty-blockers?s=r What the Media Gets Wrong on Gender Reassignment: https://spectatorworld.com/topic/media-wrong-gender-reassignment-transgender/ Civil rights discrimination providers - gender affirming care: https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/hhs-ocr-notice-and-guidance-gender-affirming-care.pdf The Cut https://www.thecut.com/2016/02/fight-over-trans-kids-got-a-researcher-fired.html https://www.thecut.com/2016/01/false-charge-helped-bring-down-kenneth-zucker.html When a Child Says She’s Trans: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/07/when-a-child-says-shes-trans/561749/ Extended NotesJesse explains how he became involved in publishing transgender articles.Journalism allows Jesse to follow a subject to the core of an issue.Before Jesse became known for his Atlantic piece, he was already interested in psychology fads.Stella enjoys self-help books.In his new book, The Quick Fix, Jesse argues that Americans turn to fad psychology because the real problems are too big to be solved.Researchers have been known to give credence to work that does not warrant it.Bad journalism abounds and Jesse often follows up bad stories with the facts.Stella states that maybe the Dutch study should be more thoroughly examined by Jesse.Writing and publishing articles on gender is complicated.Jesse says Republicans are taking the gender issue to the state level.Politicians have no idea of what the real science around the issue is.Sasha asks Jesse if he believes this to be a medical... This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

This episode is being rereleased as part of our Top 5 Episodes of 2022 Countdown! If you’ve ever asked yourself: how is this happening? How are so many institutions completely captured by contemporary gender beliefs? How are medical bodies, educational institutions, and courts operating in ways that seem crazy? Well, then you really need to listen to this insightful and clarifying discussion with Leor Sapir. Leor is a fellow at the Manhattan Institute. A driven researcher with a Ph.D. in Political Science from Boston College, Dr. Sapir previously completed a postdoctoral fellowship at the Program on Constitutional Government at Harvard University. His academic work, including his dissertation on the Obama Administration’s Title IX regulations, has investigated how America’s political culture and constitutional government shape public policy on matters of civil rights.Similarly, at the Manhattan Institute, Dr. Sapir will apply his knowledge of political theory and American government to policy issues, homing in, particularly on issues of gender identity and transgenderism. His inaugural essay in the Winter 2022 issue of City Journal explores a series of recent court rulings surrounding transgenderism, demonstrating how bad ideas translate from fringe academic theory into law and policy. Previous web pieces for City Journal have explored evolving athletic guidelines and media coverage surrounding transgender issues. He discussed these pieces in a recent episode of City Journal’s 10 Blocks podcast.Leor asserts the collapse of liberal optimism has brought about mindless apathy and subsequently, a kind of soft despotism. Leor makes the razor-sharp observation that being non-judgemental is our new civic religion. We talk about institutional capture, whether courts are the best place to decipher complex social issues, and what the impending malpractice lawsuits will mean for gender medicine. We also discuss the difference between the U.S. system and systems in progressive European countries, where a reversal of affirmation medicine seems to be taking place. We get into so much here: political philosophy, the virtue of tolerance vs. apathy, and what’s at stake when members of a society begin to lose their sense of engagement and responsibility to one another and to truth itself.Links & Resources:Leor Sapir’s writings: https://www.manhattan-institute.org/expert/leor-sapirWinter 2022 issue of City Journal:https://www.city-journal.org/magazine?issue=345Leor Sapir’s essay on athletic guidelines:https://www.city-journal.org/confused-and-flawed-debate-over-transgender-inclusion-in-womens-sportsLeor Sapir’s essay on media coverage:https://www.city-journal.org/misguided-affirmationsCity... This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

This episode is being rereleased as part of our Top 5 Episodes of 2022 Countdown! Bio: Steensma Thomas D. Steensma, Ph.D., is a health psychologist, principal investigator and part of the outpatient management team at the Center of Expertise on Gender Dysphoria at Amsterdam UMC, The Netherlands. Trained as a child and adolescent psychologist, his clinical work is focused on the counseling and treatment of people of all ages with gender incongruence and Differences in Sex Development (DSD). As principal investigator, his research lines are focused on psychosexual development, gender identity development and treatment evaluation of youth with gender incongruence. Over the years, he has published over 50 peer reviewed articles in international journals and several book chapters in close collaboration with prominent scientists in the field of gender and sexology. He has co-supervised several Ph.D. and master students. His recent scientific work is focused on understanding the developments in our field focusing on the change in observed sex ratios and the influence of media attention on gender referrals and understanding the processes and factors involved in non-binary gender identity formation. He is currently part of the working group for the text revision of the DSM-5 chapter on Gender Dysphoria. In the development of the 8th version of the Standards of Care of the World Professional Association of Transgender Health (WPATH), he is part of two working groups: Assessment and Therapeutic Approaches of Non-Binary People and Assessment, Support and Therapeutic Approaches of Children. Bio: de Vries Annelou de Vries is a child and adolescent psychiatrist and full staff member in the dept of child and adolescent psychiatry working at the Amsterdam UMC. Annelou de Vries is leading the Child Psychiatry Department of the Center of Expertise on Gender Dysphoria of the Amsterdam UMC. She is president elect of the European Professional Association of Transgender Health (EPATH) . She is co-chair of the adolescent chapter of the Standards of Care revision of the World Professional Association of Transgender Health (WPATH). At present, her lines of research focus on 1) the co-occurrence of autism and gender dysphoria, 2) capacity for informed consent of transgender adolescents, 3) long term follow up of transgender adolescence into middle adulthood, 4) sexual development of transgender adolescents, 5) shared decision making in transgender care, and 6) pathways in gender identity exploration and affirmation. The reason this interview is so important is bc the concept of puberty blockers originated with these two researchers (along w/ cohen kettenis.) We talk about patient zero and the 22 year follow up w/ this person. We get into the nitty gritty details about the 2 studies on which all puberty blocker treatment is based: we ask why they selected certain methods, talked about eligibility criteria, and the 15 participants who didn’t make it into the final study. We even touch on Jazz Jennings, social media, ROGD and detransition. This conversation felt, to us at least, like we barely scratched the surface: we were frankly left with more questions than answers, which we are so eager to talk about in our post series analysis. You’ll probably notice the vast differences between the perspectives of these researchers and of myself and Stella, but... This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

In this last episode before our break, we begin with some important and exciting announcements about what listeners can expect in 2023 from Gender: A Wider Lens. We then launch into one of our most important interviews yet: “Teiresias” was a patient at the notorious Dutch clinic. Unlike the common misconception that the Dutch used an air-tight method for correctly identifying kids who would benefit long-term from transition, Teiresias’s detransition reveals the truth about childhood gender medicine, even when it’s being practiced by the “gold standard.”He speaks out about his medical transition and subsequent detransition. Teiresias was a feminine boy who, with puberty, became increasingly distressed by his same-sex attraction. One day Teiresias watched a TV program where a trans man described the happiness that came about as a result of medical transition. A seed was sown, and Teiresias turned to the internet where he was encouraged by older trans women to transition as soon as possible.Teiresias describes the way the Dutch clinic ignored his childhood trauma, the difficulties with his father, his self-loathing, and his internalized homophobia and instead, led him on to a medicalized pathway with the gender affirmative approach. An over-eager surgeon encouraged Teiresias to undergo many procedures until one day he realized he was chasing a false dream. He then decided to get off the fast track and began his detransition.Links:Sasha’s Parent Coaching Membership Site: https://www.subscribestar.com/sashalpcStella’s Substack: https://stellaomalley.substack.com/https://gender-a-wider-lens.captivate.fm/episode/66-pioneers-series-where-it-all-started-the-dutch-researchers-steensma-de-vrieshttps://gender-a-wider-lens.captivate.fm/episode/69-pioneers-series-post-series-analysis-breakExtended NotesStella shares her experience of speaking with detransitioners from the Dutch clinic.Teiresias felt that he had a double side, telling friends he wanted to be a girl.His parents switched schools because of the bullying in the previous one.At ten, Teiresias felt neutral about being attracted to other boys and said he was gay.He thought puberty would make him attracted to women.He found himself mimicking straight boys and talking about liking girls while still being attracted to boys.At 12 or 13, he used derogatory terms to describe trans people just like everyone else.The family went through a difficult divorce while he was entering puberty. It caused him to isolate himself.In 2015, a talk show introduced him to a teenage trans man who described how happy he was after transitioning.Based on information he found on the internet, he self-diagnosed as bipolar and autistic until finding a trans description he aligned with.Teiresias started fixating on certain parts of his body but it never solved a problem.After entering the Dutch clinic, he had a specific picture in his mind of the woman he wanted to become.During his intake to the clinic in 2015, his mother insisted he was still troubled by his relationship with his father.There was a real-life phase at the clinic where Teiresias was... This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

StoicMom is a certified life coach and former classroom teacher who has some unique ideas about parenting and education. Like other moms whose lives have been altered when their teens adopted a trans identity, StoicMom was initially determined to rescue her daughter from this dangerous ideology. She quickly recognized what she was up against and sunk into desperate fear and rage. StoicMom did “all the things” to get her daughter to desist — she even moved her family to a small town in a red state — but this backfired, as gender identity theory was everywhere. Repeated failures at getting her daughter to desist left her feeling impotent and hopeless.Eventually, StoicMom had to accept that her approach was also taking a toll on her health and relationships. To restore sanity and stability to her home, she’d need to find a better way. So, she turned to her life-coaching toolbox and decided to reframe what was happening to her daughter and to herself. Knowing she couldn’t really control her daughter’s experience, StoicMom decided she would take charge of her own.In addition to immersing herself in studying attachment theory, conflict resolution, and communication skills, StoicMom focused on the gratitude she felt for her family members’ healthy qualities. She grounded herself in her values and worked to let go of the focus on her daughter’s outcomes.Earlier this year (2022), StoicMom launched a substack where she wrote about her approach and hoped other parents would find a bit of solace from the outrage culture. StoicMom also relaunched her coaching practice and now works 1:1 with parents who are interested in changing their inner worlds as a way to heal and grow through this destabilizing experience. Her 18-year-old daughter still identifies as transgender, but, as you’ll hear, StoicMom now recognizes her child is on her own individuation process, and she’s actually doing great. StoicMom now expresses gratitude for this journey with her daughter and is using the process as inspiration to become a better human.Quotes & Link:“It is no measure of health to be well-adjusted to a profoundly sick society.” ― J. Krishnamurti“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.” ― Albert EinsteinStoicMom Substack: https://stoicmom.substack.com/Extended NotesStoicMom makes suggestions to parents but doesn’t consider herself a parent coach.Has this generation taken away a child’s ability to be adaptable and survive?StoicMom and her daughter bonded over the incongruencies in the education system.The relationship between StoicMom and her daughter started to crack when they disagreed on the daughter’s desire to become diagnosed and medicated.A friend informed StoicMom that her daughter preferred a different name and identity.StoicMom and her husband both worked in Wilderness therapy prior to their daughter’s intervention.After the Wilderness program, when StoicMom asked her daughter about her identity her daughter told her it didn’t exist.StoicMom realized her daughter was binding her breasts.When StoicMom and her daughter finally conversed about her being trans-identified.In the Pivotal Moments piece on her substack, StoicMom reframes her experiences into gratitude.StoicMom’s daughter never went back to the traditional education environment.StoicMom adopted the practice of stoicism to focus on what she had control over.StoicMom is testing the waters of calling herself an Individuation coach.StoicMom strives to be a model for her... This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

Today’s interview might be a bit different from what our listeners are used to, and we think it’s crucial to recognize the many arenas of life where gender identity beliefs have been elevated. Not only elevated over progressive or classically liberal institutions but even within religious institutions, which you might think are inoculated from a radical gender-identity takeover. Our guest, Bernard Randall initially studied Classics and Ancient History (the subject of his Ph.D.), but after feeling the call to ministry he added theology to his studies and was ordained in the Church of England in 2006. After a spell in parish ministry, he entered educational chaplaincy in 2011, first in a Cambridge University college, and then at Trent College, a fee-paying K-12 school near Nottingham with a Church of England foundation. He had a general awareness of the issues around gender and gender identity but was forced to face them head-on in 2018 with the arrival of Educate and Celebrate, a pro-LGBT+ program in his school. Randall completely agreed with the organization’s aim of eradicating homophobic bullying, but when staff was instructed to charismatically chant “smash heteronormativity,” Bernard felt this was at odds with Christian beliefs. When a pupil requested, in 2019, that he give a sermon in the chapel outlining some of the differences between traditional Christian beliefs and LGBT ideology, he decided to take this request very seriously. He carefully crafted the sermon to honor everyone’s right to believe what they believe. He encouraged pupils to make up their own minds about these contemporary LGBTQ issues, but also to respect those with whom they disagreed. He was initially sacked for gross misconduct but then reinstated with a final written warning and censorship of all his sermons. When COVID-19 struck, he was put on furlough and eventually made redundant. He has sued the school for religious discrimination and unfair dismissal. The court hearing was in September this year, with the result not likely to be handed down before January 2023.This is a remarkable discussion. In addition to Bernard’s story, we also delve into some of the philosophical and therapeutic issues with things like ex-gay, detrans, emotional fragility, and whether or not we put enough trust in young people’s resilience. This is our conversation with Bernard Randall. Links:News Story on the Case: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/09/04/chaplain-sacked-defending-students-right-question-school-lgbt/ Live Tweet of the Case: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/bernard-randall-vs-trent-college Bernard’s Sermon: https://christianconcern.com/resource/a-school-sermon-by-bernard-randall-competing-ideologies/Extended NotesBernard’s father is a retired Vicar and then God called upon Bernard to become an ordained priest as well.When Bernard promised to be the public face of Christian truth he did so with resolve.In 2015, he joined the school as a school chaplain and teacher.At the school in 2018, the pro-LGBTQ+ Educate and Celebrate organization gave staff training in queer theory and pushed their political agenda.Bernard felt forced to investigate the organization’s ideas because moral and ethical matters were his responsibility as school chaplain.Educate This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

NOTE: Since this episode’s original air date, the Gender Exploratory Therapy Association has updated their name to be Therapy First.Two other members of GETA’s leadership team join Sasha and Stella for this special episode: Jungian Analyst, Lisa Marchiano and psychoanalyst, Joe Burgo join to discuss the new Clinical Guide that will be officially launched on December 3rd 2022. GETA, the Gender Exploratory Therapy Association and other groups have worked together to produce this guidance, which provides a loose framework for skilled and ethical therapists who are interested in depth-oriented work with gender-related distress. The launch of this document will be paired with a ground-breaking free workshop for any interested clinicians who want to learn how to work with gender issues in an ethical, exploratory fashion. Links: Dec 3rd Launch Event: https://bit.ly/GETADecember GETA, the Gender Exploratory Therapy Association: www.genderexploratory.comExtended NotesThe group shares why they believe GETA should exist.Gender can feel like an exception to everything you know for clinicians and therapists.GETA is a psychological approach to psychological problems.GETA created a thorough clinical guide for therapists who work with gender-questioning youth.The new guide is not a model for working with gender dysphoria. It leaves room for different approaches.The group discusses what the guide is and what it is not.The guide includes full-assessment guidance.This opens up further discussions around gender.The guide looks at what a true, informed assessment is.Gender exploratory therapy is not conversion therapy.There is a difference between the clinical side to look at things and the political.The guidelines will be free on the GETA website and will be launched with a webinar.Clinicians who are considering joining GETA are welcome. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

Dr. Leonore Tiefer is a native New Yorker, and an author, educator, feminist, researcher, psychologist, and activist whose work focuses on sexuality. She was a Clinical Associate Professor of Psychiatry at the NYU School of Medicine from 1981‒2018. She has been elected to office and received honors from major U.S. and international sexology and feminist psychology organizations such as the International Academy of Sex Research and the Association for Women in Psychology.Today, Leonore tells us about getting her Ph.D. from UC Berkeley in 1969. As a sexologist, she was studying hormones and sexual behavior in rats. When she got wind of the women’s revolution taking place outside her laboratory, she began a deep dive into feminist readings. Thinking about the cultural and social aspects of sexuality completely changed her paradigm. She came to believe that observing rat behavior in a lab could never help us understand how humans think about their own sexual experiences. She changed the direction of her work completely and eventually directed The Campaign for a New View of Women’s Sexual Problems to challenge sexual medicalization and Big Pharma trends. That was between 2000 and 2016. New View was a grassroots campaign focused on so-called “female sexual dysfunction” and the growing industry of cosmetogynecology. In 2011 the award-winning documentary on the subject, called “Orgasm Inc.'' featured Dr. Tiefer’s work and tracked one drug company’s race to develop the first female Viagra.Leonore is also the author of hundreds of research and theoretical papers and book reviews and several books, including Sex Is Not a Natural Act. She’s recently taken a keen interest in pediatric gender medicine, which has some familiar elements for Dr. Teifer. Namely, the financial interests of drug companies, over-zealous physicians, well-meaning social justice elements, and eager patients themselves, can create the perfect storm for ethically questionable medicine. You may notice that we had a hard time with Dr. Tiefer’s connection, and our editing team did the best they could with the audio. Things do clear up toward the middle of the interview, though. We hope this doesn’t become too distracting and we thank you in advance for bearing with us. Dr. Tiefer’s insights are so valuable; she is a wealth of knowledge and brings a very human yet analytical lens to the field of sexology.We hope to have her back since there was so much to discuss. Some good bits had to get cut out because of sound quality when we’d just barely scratched the surface. Hopefully, this will be accompanied by another interview in the future. For now, here’s our first discussion with Dr. Leonore Tiefer. Links: Dr Tiefer: https://www.leonoretiefer.com/Orgasm Inc.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orgasm_Inc.Dr. Vajayjay’s! Privatize Those Privates: https://youtu.be/T9kCw0Lmaa0Throw that Pink Pill Away: https://youtu.be/YNouazagUtIDr Tiefer’s CV: https://www.leonoretiefer.com/New View: http://newviewcampaign.org/Extended NotesLeonore received her Ph.D. before the women’s movement in 1969.She underwent a personal paradigm shift to study the social, cultural, and historical sexuality of women.Being a feminist and sexual therapist offered Leonore a... This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

WPATH (World Professional Association for Transgender Health) has recently released its Standards of Care, Version 8 (SOC8) to a lot of criticism and controversy. Sasha and Stella provide a preliminary examination of WPATH and their SOC8, explaining why they believe glaring issues within these guidelines have discredited the organization. Links: WPATH SOC8: https://www.wpath.org/soc8BMJ: https://www.bmj.com/content/378/bmj.o2303Wesley Yang: https://wesleyyang.substack.com/p/of-eunuchs-and-wannabesThe Daily Wire: https://www.dailywire.com/news/wpath-explains-why-they-removed-minimum-age-guidelines-for-children-to-access-transgender-medical-treatments-so-doctors-wont-get-suedGenspect: https://genspect.org/wpath-explained/The Economist: https://www.economist.com/united-states/2022/09/22/new-standards-of-transgender-health-care-raise-eyebrowsExtended NotesWPATH is a fringe organization.Many doctors are influenced by WPATH without knowing it.The Standards of Care are misguided and fully represent the citations they are based on.Stella shares the history of WPATH and its documents.In 1979, Harry Benjamin released his first Standards of Care.In 2006, the Henry Benjamin Foundation changed its name to WPATH.In SOC 7, a chapter on ethics was removed from the document yet the chapter on eunuchs remained.SOC8 has the feel of a shopping list of surgical interventions.Almost all of the minimum age requirements were missing from SOC8.The language is “lawyer language” because it is vague enough for no one to be held responsible.The document is more about political will than clinical care.Sasha shares the nonsensical parts of SOC8, referencing the non-binary chapter.Many items are categorized under gender but are truly body modifications.Many website references cited in the document include unsavory information.Detransitioners are badly depicted in SOC8 and the definition of a detransitioner is abhorrent.Visit https://rethinkime.org/ and https://genspect.org/ to learn more. For more about our show: https://linktr.ee/WiderLensPod. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

Wesley Yang, an essayist and public intellectual, has written extensively about 21st-century America and the liminal position of the non-black, non-white person. Coining the term "successor ideology" in 2019, Wesley has carefully analyzed this particular kind of ideology among left-wing movements that is centered around identity politics. Wesley has recently turned his attention towards gender issues and, in this episode, he delivers a blistering analysis of how gender has become a socio-political juggernaut, infiltrating society in every possible way. His substack features his writing, and the writing of other authors who are covering all the shocking twists and turns in the gender debates. He is also covering the release of the new WPATH Standards of Care, and the subsequent talks given about various chapters, including the now infamous eunuch chapter. As you’ll hear Wesley has a truly incisive mind and dynamic voice, and we’re so thrilled he’s pointing his attention towards pediatric transition and the horrible treatment parents receive when they attempt to protect their children. We’ll just let him speak for himself: here is Wesley Yang. Links: Wesley Yang’s Substack: https://wesleyyang.substack.com/ Wesley Yang’s Twitter: https://mobile.twitter.com/wesyang The Face of Seung-Hui Cho https://www.nplusonemag.com/issue-6/essays/face-seung-hui-cho/ Book the souls of yellow folk https://amzn.to/3BCtziO Eliza mongreen transexceptionalism and kids twitter https://twitter.com/elizamondegreen/status/1494299809297178633?s=20&t=yF8H9TotYE_4ENzc41_JIg Swedish Documentary The Trans Train: Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJGAoNbHYzk&t=265s Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73-mLwWIgwU Part 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3WqLT9NEnU Billboard Chris on Wesley’s Youtube: https://youtu.be/AlacNs0b6Jw Teacher with gigantic prosthetic breasts is defended in Ontario: This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

Brian Belovitch is an author, actor, and mental health professional. As a longtime resident of NY, he has a storied career as a writer and gender outlier. He was a featured guest on The Moth Storytelling Hour on NPR sharing a story from his memoir, Trans Figured: My Journey from Boy to Girl to Woman to Man, published in 2018. In June 2019, Brian was named one of the 50 most influential LGBTQ authors of all time by Barnes and Noble and he participated in the 50th anniversary of the Stonewall Gay Pride Parade in New York City. Brian was also the subject of a documentary film that made its world premiere at DOC NYC titled; I’m Gonna Make You Love Me directed by Karen Bernstein.Most recently, Brian holds a Master’s Degree in Mental Health Counseling, where he plans to use his lived experience as a cis gay man of trans experience to help others who are exploring their identity journeys. As a long-term survivor of HIV, Brian lives proudly as an out beloved gay man, advocating on behalf of the LGBTQ community in all its wondrous expressions.We start today, all the way back to Brian’s childhood. He was always a feminine and flamboyant kid, and his parents and brothers ostracized him severely for it. He tells us about his complicated relationship with his family and early on beginning to live a life full of risks, adventures, and self-sabotage. In New York in the 70s, Brian was living through a whirlwind of drugs, nightclubs, prostitution, and drag shows. He could not find his place as a feminine gay man and the pull towards creating a beautiful, seductive, new self as a woman became too strong to withstand. Brian transitioned to Tish and embarked on new trans adventures, both enriching and self-destructive. Tish even married an army man and tried to settle down in a domestic housewife role that Tish thought was expected of women. Only after beginning his process of sobriety did Tish realize this was a dead-end path that would either lead to bottom surgery or, as Brian now puts it, death. So as the fog of addiction cleared and with the help of a supportive therapist, Tish decided to re-transition to Brian. There are a lot of adult themes discussed today, so please be mindful of who's listening. We hope you enjoy our discussion with Brian Belovitch.Links:Trans Figured: Journey from Boy to Girl to Woman to Man https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Trans-Figured/Brian-Belovitch/9781510729643Extended NotesBrian was often misgendered as a child.Growing up with five athletic brothers didn’t feel right to Brian.Brian was influenced by the homophobic and racist nature of his childhood home.Most of Brian’s earliest sexual experiences were not positive, loving experiences.Paulie was the first person to see Brian and appreciate who he was as a person.At 17, Brian’s mother kicked him out of his childhood home but was welcomed by Paulie’s mother.Dressing in drag offered Brian acceptance and validation.At 19, after starting the transition process, Brian attempted suicide when his family rejected him.Because of his beauty, Brian had passing privilege and married a soldier.Finally, at 30, a therapist asked Brian what he thought about being male.Therapy and sobriety changed Brian’s life.Brian never considered the consequences of being unfaithful to his husband.Living with the risks of sex work was only made easier by Brian’s drug and alcohol use.No one knew Brian was trans.Brian found it harder to transition from Tish to Brian than he did originally transitioning to Tish.Brian uses re-transitioned, not de-transitioned to... This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

Dr. David Bell retired last year from his position as a consultant psychiatrist at the Tavistock and Portman NHS Foundation Trust, where he worked for 25 years. There, he led the Fitzjohns Unit service which provided long-term psychotherapy for those with enduring, severe psychological problems. He is also the former President of the British Psychoanalytic Society.While he was in the Governor role at the Tavistock and Portman Trust, through a series of events, which we cover today, Dr. Bell discovered that something was going terribly wrong in the Children’s Gender Identity Development Service, or GIDS. Something I didn’t know before speaking to Dave is that the broader Tavistock Service had an established reputation for excellent psychoanalytic treatment models and for providing the highest quality of psychological care. So, clinicians who applied to work there were expecting to join the ranks of the most thoughtful and knowledgeable psychotherapists in the UK. Those young and inexperienced clinicians who were funneled into the GIDS landed in a very different kind of treatment setting. They started raising their complaints and getting nowhere, so they started trickling, one by one, to Dr. Bell with their stories. Not only were they ill-equipped to provide proper, thorough care to kids with incredibly complex stories, but they were also getting a clear message from their direct chain of command: concerns were not going to be properly addressed. In fact, there was a culture of fear about raising these issues and clinicians felt a strong pressure to simply get through their humongous caseloads without rocking the boat.In 2018, Dr. Bell described all of this in a highly critical report on the GIDS which became part of the chain of events, which included critical involvement from our former guests, Marcus and Sue Evans, which led to the Judicial Review (the Kierra Bell Case), the thorough external Cass Review, and its recent decision to close down the GIDS.Links:Guardian Article about Dave Bell: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/may/02/tavistock-trust-whistleblower-david-bell-transgender-chilDr.en-gids Dave’s YouTube talk via Genspect: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGJeHcjtI4A Andrew Gilligan at the Times on Marcus Evans’ Resignation: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/governor-quits-blinkered-tavistock-clinic-82db7wzq8Extended NotesOriginally, Dave was put off by psychiatry due to the overmedicalization so he involved himself in anti-psychiatry.Dave created a unit for providing psychotherapy for disturbed patients.Dave became a governor at Tavistock.He found little interest at Tavistock in investigating the validity of the GIDS unit.Other doctors at Tavistock had raised their concerns about GIDS, but cautiously.The major complaints at Tavistock were caseloads and unresearched affirmations of children with gender dysphoria.Unexperienced clinicians were often confused about the purpose of the organization.Against a legal recommendation, Dave sent his review of GIDS and the accompanying complaints to the board.There was very little follow-up with adolescent patients so statistics were unavailable.Dave still doesn’t know who leaked his report to the press.Marcus Evans resigned from Tavistock because Dave’s... This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

Ellie was a gender nonconforming 90s kid in the UK. She became a patient of what came to be the Gender Identity Development Services (GIDS) at Tavistock. She was seen at the time by Dr. DiCeglie, a child and adolescent psychiatrist, and the GIDS founder. Ellie describes her psychological treatment with him and her decision, early on in life, that medicalization simply was not an option. She tells us about her family life and coming to terms with being gay in her teens. Ellie is now married to her wife and living happily. But she also talks about gender dysphoria being something she, and many lesbians, simply learn to live with. She offers some fascinating insights about the way technology is used, and social media, in particular, can mimic a kind of schizophrenia experience, with too many competing voices and opinions influencing the minds of teens today. She tells us about being featured in a BBC2 children’s program as a kid, and you can see the YouTube video of this segment in the show notes. We also discuss the book Hannah Barnes has written, soon to be published, for which Ellie was interviewed. If you’ve ever wondered about the desistance literature and hoped to tie a more human, personal story to the statistics, then you’re going to appreciate this discussion with Ellie.Links:BBC2 Short Film: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRU8TtOqGSA Extended NotesFrom as early as two years old, Ellie rejected dress clothes.Ellie has a theory that her sister’s ability to get attention played a part in her gender dysphoria.Ellie thought life would be easier if she was a boy and only hung out with boys.Why does being a boy or a girl matter?Ellie’s mother was a nurse who was treated for a genital condition (DSD) when she was born.Ellie’s mother took her to GIDS at Tavistock to treat her gender dysphoria.DSD is caused by a recessive gene.Ellie’s parents were freely naked in the house and on vacation at nudist beaches.When approached with the idea, Ellie thought of medicalization and surgery as a ridiculous option.Ellie was treated by the doctor who founded GIDS at Tavistock.Some doctors are in the business for status.Entering puberty Ellie did have one influential female friend.Ellie’s doctor provided a Watchful Waiting period.Buffy the Vampire Slayer offered Ellie a glimpse into the idea that women could be superheroes and embody their power.Everyone naturally has a relationship with their gender.The thing, Ellie says, she desired from masculinity is to have height. Surgery couldn’t provide that.Gender dysphoria is not static. It is constantly changing.Ellie had unrequited crushes on straight girls but her first sexual encounters were with men because that is who approached her.Romantically Ellie is interested in women, physically she considers herself bisexual.Ellie considers social media to be a drug.Ellie was interviewed extensively for Hannah Brown’s upcoming book about the Tavistock Clinic. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

Ritchie Herron, also known as TullipR on Twitter, is a 35-year-old detransitioning male who spent almost a decade living as a trans woman. Before his fixation on gender, Ritchie had spent most of his life struggling with debilitating anxiety and obsessional OCD thoughts. As you’ll hear, he is brilliant, articulate, and compelling. But in his teens and young adult life, he forced his big personality into submission. He was terrified of the truth: that he was gay. Internalized shame, body hatred, and extreme isolation only fed into his OCD.In the throes of all this, he found an online forum about gender dysphoria, and everything changed in an instant, as Ritchie had a new goal and a new OCD obsession. In this interview, he delivers a moving and powerful account of what happened next. And keep in mind, this is the story of a vulnerable adult, well over 18, but still the victim of a system that missed red flags over and over again. In 2018, after much coaxing from the professionals, he underwent a procedure under the UK’s National Health Service which removed his genitals. The regret set in almost immediately.Ritchie is now working towards suing the NHS for failing to address serious mental health issues during the diagnostic process. He is active on Twitter, and his brilliant substack, promoting and reposting stories of detransitioners, particularly highlighting the hidden stories of men, bringing awareness to the public about what he calls “the medical scandal of our time.”Links & Resources:Ritchie’s Substack — TullipR: https://tullipr.substack.com/Ritchie’s harrowing tweet thread on being a detransitioner: https://twitter.com/TullipR/status/1536422533230206976?t=QXFZlhxy7GKaTd812rAlTA&s=08Twitter: https://twitter.com/TullipRExtended NotesRitchie didn’t set out to be a mouthpiece for male detransitioners.Most people don’t understand the pressures associated with gender clinics and therapy.He longed to express himself as a child but he held it in which caused anxiety and OCD.During his teens and as his parents went through a divorce, Ritchie suffered in silence.He began SSRIs in his early 20s.He hated his body.When Ritchie told his psychologist he was trans, it was noted but not worked through.The gender clinic knew Ritchie was OCD.Forums helped implant the idea that Ritchie could be a woman who is loved by men.Paying the gender clinic with a PayDay loan, Ritchie had his transsexual diagnosis within two days.Estrogen tablets didn’t block Ritchie’s testosterone levels.Ritchie embodied a character of who he thought he should be instead of who he was.Pre-gender reassignment surgery, Ritchie’s mother attempted to warn the medical staff of his mental issues.When Ritchie discovered the waitlist for surgery was over four years, he decided to reaffirm and have the surgery.Shame and regret kicked in almost immediately after the surgery.Ritchie felt the anti-antigen was a big part in inducing his psychotic state.When Ritchie first found the detrans community he was angry but then realized he needed to talk.In trans discourse, males are regarded less than females.Vulnerability doesn’t have an age limit.Ritchie shares some of the physical repercussions of gender reassignment surgery.Ritchie’s advice to others is to avoid surgery at all... This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

If you’ve ever asked yourself: how is this happening? How are so many institutions completely captured by contemporary gender beliefs? How are medical bodies, educational institutions, and courts operating in ways that seem crazy? Well, then you really need to listen to this insightful and clarifying discussion with Leor Sapir. Leor is a fellow at the Manhattan Institute. A driven researcher with a Ph.D. in Political Science from Boston College, Dr. Sapir previously completed a postdoctoral fellowship at the Program on Constitutional Government at Harvard University. His academic work, including his dissertation on the Obama Administration’s Title IX regulations, has investigated how America’s political culture and constitutional government shape public policy on matters of civil rights.Similarly, at the Manhattan Institute, Dr. Sapir will apply his knowledge of political theory and American government to policy issues, homing in, particularly on issues of gender identity and transgenderism. His inaugural essay in the Winter 2022 issue of City Journal explores a series of recent court rulings surrounding transgenderism, demonstrating how bad ideas translate from fringe academic theory into law and policy. Previous web pieces for City Journal have explored evolving athletic guidelines and media coverage surrounding transgender issues. He discussed these pieces in a recent episode of City Journal’s 10 Blocks podcast.Leor asserts the collapse of liberal optimism has brought about mindless apathy and subsequently, a kind of soft despotism. Leor makes the razor-sharp observation that being non-judgemental is our new civic religion. We talk about institutional capture, whether courts are the best place to decipher complex social issues, and what the impending malpractice lawsuits will mean for gender medicine. We also discuss the difference between the U.S. system and systems in progressive European countries, where a reversal of affirmation medicine seems to be taking place. We get into so much here: political philosophy, the virtue of tolerance vs. apathy, and what’s at stake when members of a society begin to lose their sense of engagement and responsibility to one another and to truth itself.Links & Resources:Leor Sapir’s writings: https://www.manhattan-institute.org/expert/leor-sapirWinter 2022 issue of City Journal:https://www.city-journal.org/magazine?issue=345Leor Sapir’s essay on athletic guidelines:https://www.city-journal.org/confused-and-flawed-debate-over-transgender-inclusion-in-womens-sportsLeor Sapir’s essay on media coverage:https://www.city-journal.org/misguided-affirmationsCity Journal’s 10 Blocks podcast episode on the gender identity debate This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

Jennifer Lahl is the founder andpresident of The Center for Bioethics and Culture Network. She has 25years of experience as a pediatric critical care nurse, hospitaladministrator, and senior-level nursing manager, and more recently,she’s also become a successful filmmaker. In 2010, she made herwriting, producing, and directing debut producing the documentaryfilmEggsploitation,which has been awarded Best Documentary by the California IndependentFilm Festival and has sold in more than 30 countries. She is also theDirector, Executive Producer, and co-writer of AnonymousFather’sDay(2011), a documentary film exploring the stories of women and men whowere created by anonymous sperm donation. In 2014 she completed threefilms on the ethics of third-party reproduction, aka surrogacy, witha trilogy called: Breeders:ASubclassofWomen?.In July 2015, she released a documentary short calledMaggie'sStory,which follows one woman’s egg donation journey. Lahl’s nextfeature film, #BigFertilitywas released in the fall of 2018.And of course, we were particularlyinterested in Jennifer’s films that focus on gender medicine. TransMission:What’stheRushtoReassign This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

Bob Ostertag published his book, Sex Science Self: A Social History of Estrogen, Testosterone, and Identity in 2016. At the time, few people took much notice. Six years later, however, this book is causing a stir among gender critical circles and provoking considerable thought and discussion.Today, Bob Ostertag expands on the book, which explores the way pharmaceutical companies have been marketing testosterone as the essence of manhood and estrogen as the essence of womanhood. Pioneering physicians have also been looking long and hard for a condition, even if they have to fabricate one, for which these hormones offer a solution. Bob’s work raises important questions about the beliefs people hold about these substances and what those substances mean for their personal identity. And of course, these beliefs are changing rapidly as society expands its understanding of gender identity, for better or worse.Bob also reminds us that no aspect of history should be off limits for exploration. Studying the history of hormones, in and of itself, can be upsetting to people who hold strong beliefs about them. Nevertheless, knowing this history is important for anyone curious about the intersection between medicine and identity.Bob’s writing style is powerful, witty, and gripping. As you’ll see, he is a very thoughtful and cautious conversationalist. Towards the end of the discussion, Bob also raises some challenges to me and Stella about our show, and how some of our guests frame the biological or organic determinants of sexuality and identity. This conversation gave us much to think about and we will continue exploring these ideas in subsequent episodes. So without further delay, here’s our discussion with Bob Ostertag.Links & Resources:Sex Science Self: A Social History of Estrogen, Testosterone, and Identity, by Bob Ostertag, University of Massachusetts Press, 2016, https://www.amazon.com/Sex-Science-Self-Estrogen-Testosterone-ebook/dp/B07CHB9B7YISBN: 978-1-62534-213-3 Extended NotesIn his book, Sex Science Self: A Social History of Estrogen, Testosterone, and Identity,Bob describes the extraordinary claims by big pharma and the medical establishment about hormones determining gender.Is human gender chemical-based?Bob offers examples of the meaning of how hormones affect the body and how that meaning has changed.A deeper dive into the marketable idea that testosterone represents masculinity.How to better anticipate the landmines of pharmaceutical propaganda.Pharmaceutical hormones were the miracle cure without a disease.At the time, the thought was whoever could synthesize testosterone was going to be rich.Gay liberation groups did not want to talk to the medical establishment.Transgender issues are reflective of all the problems we have in the world today.In the past, a transition was only accomplished through physical surgery.All human identities are becoming chemically constructed.A project out of UC Berkeley is attempting to debunk the Low T campaign.Bob dispels some myths about hormone imbalances and the medical conditions they supposedly cause.Inspecting the ethical dilemma of consumer-led medicines.For 10 years, Bob’s book was mostly ignored.This podcast is sponsored by ReIME and Genspect. Visit https://rethinkime.org/ and This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

Dr. Maggie Goldsmith was working as an independent contractor at the psychological and counseling service of a small, progressive, liberal arts college when her 16-year-old daughter announced that she identified as trans-masculine and required he/him pronouns.Unable to find appropriate help for her daughter who was intensifying her demands for cross-sex hormone treatment as she approached her 18th birthday, Maggie embarked with her on a trip to their ancestral homeland. While there, Maggie wrote about her experiences as a clinician and parent of a gender-questioning adolescent. In her first PITT Substack essay titled, “To my daughter’s therapist: you were wrong,” Maggie wrote about her daughter’s process of shedding transgender identification as she worked to build a more flexible and resilient sense of self. That essay got over 20,000 reads within the first three months of its publication. Her second PITT essay titled, “Trans and the myth of sloppy parenting,” explored the conditions that made her family fertile ground for gender ideology and how, ultimately, the parent-child bond was the solvent for her daughter’s gender dysphoria.Maggie’s clinical work with teens and families impacted by gender dysphoria is guided by child and adolescent developmental theory and a belief that a good working alliance between therapist and patient can act as the scaffolding to support a young person’s mental health and emotional growth.We enjoyed this discussion so much that we decided it will be followed up by a Part II in the coming weeks.Links & Resources:https://pitt.substack.com/p/trans-and-the-myth-of-sloppy-parentinghttps://pitt.substack.com/p/to-my-daughters-therapist-you-wereExtended NotesMaggie was surprised to see they/them pronouns on student applications.She didn’t think much of her daughter approaching her with the idea of taking hormone therapy when she turned 25.Her daughter had the makings of an identity crisis.During Covid, tragedy struck the family and her children were attending school online.Her daughter went to Planned Parenthood to get testosterone shots on her 18th birthday without talking to Maggie.Even respected gender identity specialists were offering Maggie misplaced recommendations.Maggie felt that she had no resources and that she, as a clinician, would have to figure things out on her own.Attaching to binaries and a denial of history is common in teens and this compels a parent to be present-day focused.The same day Maggie made an appointment for her daughter at a gender clinic, her daughter bought a dress and heels online.Maggie thought about traveling as a way to give her daughter time to get clearer about her identity.Her son supported her daughter’s transition which Maggie found created a toxic environment.A fellow psychologist told Maggie that she was abandoning her son.In the family’s native language there are no gendered pronouns.When Maggie told her daughter she was done with gender issues, her daughter admitted to being done with it as well.Wider Lens Renewal Retreat — Arizona 2022:https://www.eventbrite.com/e/wider-lens-renewal-retreats-arizona-2022-tickets-368655377157This podcast is sponsored by ReIME andGenspect. Visit https://rethinkime.org/and This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

Denise Caignon is the founder of 4th wave now, the very first parent blog in the U.S. exposing the dangers and madness of the gender affirmative model of care for minors. In 2014, Denise seemed to be an ordinary U.S. mother who happened to work in healthcare, when her then 17-year-old daughter, out of the blue, texted her a link to a gender doctor’s website who claims he approves hormones and surgery for trans people.Denise refers to herself as a “good liberal” who didn’t know anything about this but was willing to investigate, so she made phone calls. She soon became puzzled by the response of the gender affirmative clinicians and decided she needed to do her own research. As it turns out Denise is quite extraordinary. Always a maverick and a deep thinker, found herself accidentally starting the groundbreaking website, 4thWaveNow, which grew to play a huge role in careful analysis and documentation of the psychological and medical harms being done to young people in the name of gender.Today, we talk with Denise as she reflects on how the U.S. has changed in its approach to this issue and some challenges we face when promoting gender exploratory therapy. This is a special conversation since Denise is so insanely knowledgeable about all things contemporary gender debates: from the big picture to the behind-the-scenes internet drama. Oh, and by the way, her daughter no longer identifies as trans, and she tells us about that story too. So, buckle in, and enjoy our discussion with 4thwavenow founder, Denise.Links:https://4thwavenow.com/Not Plural Phobic: https://4thwavenow.com/2017/12/29/not-plural-phobic-uspath-psychiatrist-promotes-transition-for-multiple-personalities/Age is just a number: https://4thwavenow.com/2017/03/20/age-is-just-a-number-when-it-comes-to-genital-surgeries-on-minors/Alexander Korte: https://www.lmu-klinikum.de/kinder-und-jugendpsychiatrieThe pop tarts story: https://4thwavenow.com/2017/07/23/i-just-gave-him-the-language-top-gender-doc-uses-pop-tart-analogy-to-persuade-8-year-old-girl-shes-really-a-boy/Extended NotesIn 2014, Denise’s daughter sent her a link to a gender clinic.Denise researched as much as she could about trans people quickly.She never intended to start a website but she needed to find other people who understood what she was going through.She received death threats after posting her first article.Denise describes the pop tarts story.After a visit to a somewhat offline horse farm, Denise’s daughter desisted.A certain percentage of gender dysphoric young people end up being gay or lesbian.Denise doesn’t believe desistance is a bad thing.Certain hormones can sterilize young people.People who weren’t talking about gender issues in the past are now talking about gender issues.Sasha, Stella, and Denise discuss the differences in the U.S. and the UK with regard to gender discussions.Finding common ground can be difficult when all sides want to capitalize on gender discussions.Denise describes the faith component involved in some detransition This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

Shannon Thrace is a writer, IT professional, and devotee of farm-to-table restaurants, summer festivals, all-night conversations, and lifelong learning. She’s passionate about unplugging, getting outside, and traveling the world. She’s also a trans widow who has written a memoir, soon to be published.Today Shannon tells about first meeting her husband, Jaime. She fell in love and married a man who was creative and artistic, with an eclectic but grungy style. He was down for anything, fun to be around, and spontaneous. They moved from the city to the country. This was a young open-minded couple that enjoyed a playfulness in their relationship. So when Jamie stumbled across trans porn and developed an interest in cross-dressing, Shannon was more curious than distressed. But then things took a weird turn. As Jamie started to spend more time in online spaces, and less time in the real world, his interest in cross-dressing changed from a fun activity to a real struggle with gender dysphoria. He spiraled into worsening mental health and their marriage took a dive. Shannon tells the story of how her loving marriage couldn’t withstand the pressure of Jamie’s obsessions, ideologies, and online activism. We touch on the role of affirmative therapists, the loss of her friends, and Shannon’s utter isolation from this complicated situation. Ultimately a solo camping trip helped her ground herself and make a decision about ending the marriage. She ends this interview with some advice to other women who may be in a similar situation.Links:Substack: shannonthrace.substack.comShannon's Book: 18 Months: A Memoir of a Marriage Lost to Gender Identity Extended NotesShannon shares the story of her love for her husband.Exploring Trans pornography was Jamie’s way of introducing Shannon to his transformation.Jamie changed his personal style many times over the years.Shannon identified as a lesbian before meeting her husband.While testing out the waters of cross-dressing, Jamie was writing about his masculinity in a blog.A brief comment from a stranger ignited Jamie’s gender dysphoria.Jamie’s story closely fits into the gender dysphoria narrative on the internet at the time.Jamie was so depressed he stepped out of his everyday life. He quit work and stopped having sex with Shannon.Shannon’s therapist recommended she write a letter to say goodbye to her male partner.The therapist commented that she thought it would be fun to transition Jamie.Jamie started to pull away, sabotaged Shannon in tirades, and gave their mutual friends ultimatums.Jamie has had surgery to fully incorporate his beliefs.Shannon believes gender dysphoria can be acquired.Shannon offers advice for those who have spouses in various stages of transitioning.Wider Lens Renewal Retreat – Arizona 2022: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/wider-lens-renewal-retreats-arizona-2022-tickets-368655377157This podcast is sponsored by ReIME and Genspect. Visit https://rethinkime.org/ and https://genspect.org/ to learn more.For more about our show: https://linktr.ee/WiderLensPod This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

Professor Tony Attwood has specialized in Autism Spectrum Disorders since he qualified as a clinical psychologist in England in 1975. He has written two books: Asperger’s Syndrome: A Guide for Parents and Professionals and The Complete Guide to Asperger’s Syndrome. Between the two, they’ve sold over 800,000 copies and have been translated into dozens of languages.He has been a keynote speaker at many Australian and International Conferences and he presents workshops and runs training courses for parents, professionals, and individuals with Asperger’s syndrome all over the world.Today, Dr. Attwood helps us to better understand autistic traits in the gender-questioning teens we see today. We covered this topic in Episode 17 but felt there were things we missed and wanted to clarify. As Dr. Atwood informed us before we hit record, his expertise is in Autism, and he may not be as well versed in the intricacies of contemporary gender identity activism or the studies around gender dysphoria, transition, and desistance. But his knowledge of autism in children and teens is vast and he was engaging and lovely to speak to!We asked Dr. Attwood about special interests, or the fixations and narrow obsessions that are common in autism, we asked him about the difficulty with socializing and how immediate affirmation in an LGBT peer group might be experienced. We also delve into the vulnerabilities and strengths of autistic adolescents and how parents can best support their children when they make rigid or urgent demands. Dr. Attwood highlights the difficult position parents may be in when their child is highly distressed but rushing into a process he/she may not fully understand. We also explored the new world that has opened up to teens via computers and social media and the tricky landscape that complicates a normal adolescent search for identity.Links:Website: https://tonyattwood.com.au/ Dr. Attwood’s Books on Amazon: https://amzn.to/3PKm1AN Events: https://www.attwoodandgarnettevents.comExtended NotesSasha explains to Professor Attwood the slower, psychological approach to gender facilitated on this podcast.Often, in those with autism, the age of emotional maturity does not match the chronological age.Professor Attwood describes what he believes to be the similarities between autism and gender.Autistic individuals seek affirmation and the transgender community offers affirmation but not at the level the autistic individual is seeking.Discovering a self-identity, regardless of gender, is a mechanism of realization utilized by Professor Attwood.Parents are expected to accept a child’s different concept of self in autism and gender.From a psychological perspective, it seems that social transition creates a sort of pathway toward medical transition.With autism subtlety is rare.Professor Attwood shares the positive and negative physical and psychological advantages for teens who find acceptance online.In his group, Professor Attwood explores how the world is perceived by autistic individuals.The ratio of autistic boys to girls is two to one.One in three of those in eating disorder clinics have autism, gender-dysphoria, etc.What it means when diagnoses are changed from autism to ADHD+.Professor Attwood describes an example of when children have characteristics of autism but not the disability.Gender exploration This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

Maya Forstater is a researcher, writer, and advisor working on business and sustainable development. She is one of the founders of Sex Matters, the UK-based, not-for-profit organization that seeks to re-establish that sex matters in rules, laws, policies, language, and culture.In 2019, she lost her job after tweeting and writing about sex and gender. She had begun talking and tweeting about news articles that she felt espoused bizarre new beliefs about gender and what the implications may be. For example, while building a campaign to combat overly-sex-segregated toys for children, called Let Toys be Toys, Maya observed that society had shifted from fighting sex stereotypes to claiming that some children were neither girls nor boys. It was fascinating to learn that even when researching tax policy, Maya found herself calling out unrealistic, utopian ideas and ruffling feathers among her liberal peers. In this conversation, Maya also reflects on her unlikely position in her landmark court case which established that gender-critical views are protected as a belief under the equality act. Despite her reluctance to jump into a complex and messy legal process, she felt a strong conviction to take this on.Links:Wider Lens Renewal Retreat — Arizona 2022:https://www.eventbrite.com/e/wider-lens-renewal-retreats-arizona-2022-tickets-368655377157Sex Matters:https://sex-matters.org/Let Toys Be Toys:https://www.lettoysbetoys.org.uk/Twitter Handle: https://www.twitter.com/@MForstaterMore of Maya’s Writing:https://a-question-of-consent.net/Extended NotesIn 2017, Maya took notice of the gender wars and started the “Let Toys Be Toys” campaign.Maya believes women are women and women have rights.It is widely spread that Maya is a Tax Accountant but her role in social justice is much more than that.Maya challenges people to engage in issues on Twitter and in her workplace.An employer told Maya that because she retweeted Kathleen Stock she was a bigot.Maya retained her job after explaining her plight on a blog and Twitter.Her father’s legal experience influenced Maya about whether or not to sue others.There is a legal time limit on discrimination cases.At the moment Maya was prepared to launch a public campaign, a major social justice law firm dropped her case.Maya has public support from those unable to raise their voice at work.The first hearing, that Maya lost, was about sex being real and a protected philosophical belief.In the first trial, a judge called Maya an Absolutist.A tweet from JK Rowling catapulted Maya’s campaign into the international spotlight.In 2021, Maya finally won a case that created a precedent that gender-critical people have the same rights as religious people.Sex Matters is an organization Maya founded to educate people about their rights.This podcast is sponsored by ReIME and Genspect. Visit https://rethinkime.org/ and https://genspect.org/ to learn more.For more This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

Following on from the first episode on desistance (77), Sasha and Stella address a common question they get from parents of gender-questioning children: Could my child be desisting, and if so, how should I respond? The episode begins with a description of how it might look if a child is desisting or developing more psychological flexibility around gender. Then, they explore the many different responses parents can have when they suspect their child is in a desistance process. Commonalities among parents of desisted kids are discussed, and Sasha and Stella offer some practical advice for parents who may be confused by conflicting information from both affirmative practitioners and gender-critical commentators alike.Links:Wider Lens Renewal Retreat — Arizona 2022:https://www.eventbrite.com/e/wider-lens-renewal-retreats-arizona-2022-tickets-368655377157Extended NotesDesistance is a highly emotional subject.Signs that may indicate desistance or gender flexibility in children.Parents should educate themselves and relax while teenagers are exploring gender.Rules of thumb for bringing up a conversation about gender with kids.Stella discusses Ireland and the lack of emphasis on medicalizing children there.Selfies and an emphasis on how someone looks have impacted children in negative ways.Radical interventions proactive parents have done to keep kids mentally healthy and engaged in life.A household in which a child feels they can be themselves can have a bigger impact than therapy in some cases.Does desistance manifest differently in boys than in girls?Gender can be concentrated or diluted depending on a child’s other interests.Moving is a strategy to mitigate unhelpful influences.In desistance stories, things that make a difference are when parents get creative about broadening their child’s life.When a child adopts a new name it is much different than when they adopt different pronouns.Therapy can help parents while their child is desisting.This podcast is sponsored by ReIME and Genspect. Visit https://rethinkime.org/ and https://genspect.org/ to learn more.For more about our show: https://linktr.ee/WiderLensPod This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

Bret Alderman is a writer and life coach who works with gender-questioning teens and their parents. He received his Ph.D. in Depth Psychology from the Pacifica Graduate Institute in 2012. His book Symptom, Symbol, and the Other of Language: A Jungian Interpretation of the Linguistic Turn, is an attempt to understand postmodernism, specifically its intense preoccupation with language, from a perspective informed by the work of Carl Jung. This work, in turn, has led him to an interest in Queer Theory and its relation to earlier, first-generation postmodernist thinkers.Bret’s insight into postmodernist and poststructuralist thinking provides a rich platform onwhich to get to grips with gender ideology. In this fascinating discussion, he explains the “linguistic turn” and the Jungian concepts such as ideological possession and other important archetypes. Perhaps most importantly, Bret tells us why a statement can be literally false and yet remain metaphorically true — and how we can best respond when this is happening.Links:Bret Alderman: Symptom, Symbol, and the Other of Language: A Jungian Interpretation of the Linguistic Turnhttps://www.routledge.com/Symptom-Symbol-and-the-Other-of-Language-A-Jungian-Interpretation-of/Alderman/p/book/9780815359135Bret’s website: https://www.aldermancoaching.com/Judith Butler: Bodies That Matter: On the Discursive Limits of Sex https://www.routledge.com/Bodies-That-Matter-On-the-Discursive-Limits-of-Sex/Butler/p/book/9780415610155?gclid=Cj0KCQjwzqSWBhDPARIsAK38LY8qB6h2FzpBYFMlcfzKiKmPE1zWEeh0C49TJ2humz9XDRNgpspkiBQaAqJbEALw_wcBExtended NotesFor his book, Symptom, Symbol, and the Other of Language, Bret researched the linguistic turn.Bret defines the Jungian “nothing-but” attitude.Queer theory and gender identity theory would be impossible without poststructuralism and the particular understanding of language it inaugurated.In their malleable state, young people may believe they have been misled into a different narrative.A death-rebirth motif runs through the discourse of what it means to be transgender.In the context of gender, something can be literally false yet metaphorically true.The body is a language itself and how physical characteristics are used to communicate who we are.Animals that are sexually dimorphic also exhibit differences in behavior.Bret details Prometheanism and its place in gender ideology.The issue with deifying an idea.Bret describes how he moves past the jargon of the internet during therapy.Jung’s active imagination technique for internalized transphobia.It is normal for teens to radically change the way they present themselves to the world.Bret contends that gender identity theory and queer theory are not sustainable.How knowing more than one language translates into a different mindset.This podcast is sponsored by ReIME and Genspect. Visit https://rethinkime.org/ and https://genspect.org/ to learn more.For more... This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

Stephanie Davies-Arai is the founder and director of Transgender Trend, the leading UK organization calling for evidence-based healthcare for gender dysphoric children and young people and fact-based teaching in schools. She was shortlisted for the John Maddox Prize 2018 for the school’s guide, “Supporting gender diverse and trans-identified students in schools.” She is a communication skills expert, teacher trainer, parent coach, and author of Communicating with Kids. Stephanie was an intervener in the High Court in support of Keira Bell and Mrs. A, who brought a landmark case against the Tavistock Gender Identity Development Service. They claim that under-18s are not old enough to consent to treatment with puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones. Stephanie was awarded the British Empire Medal as founder of Transgender Trend for services to children in the Queen’s Jubilee Birthday Honours list.In this discussion, we talk about how adults have always attempted to strike a balance between encouraging creativity and affirming reality for children. Stephanie started noticing a reversal in the parent-child relationship through her research into parenting books and then saw this trend come to life in media stories of trans children and the parents whose job was to facilitate their child’s self-development.Stephanie is also asked, given her background as an expert in communication with children, how would she want to introduce ideas of sex, gender, orientation, feminism, and media literacy to kids. We also explore how other vulnerable groups and protected categories are shadowed when we fixate disproportionately on gender and sexuality. How does this impact children’s development and sense of self? What happens when we lie to children? Stephanie offers some advice to parents who hope their child’s fixation on one particular thing will resolve (whether it be gender or otherwise). And lastly, we ask Stephanie to make some predictions of what will transpire regarding gender, transition, and education in the near future.Links:http://www.transgendertrend.comhttps://stephaniedaviesarai.com/communicating-with-kids/http://www.4thwavenow.comExtended NotesStephanie designed her own courses and wrote Communicating with Kids: What Works and What Doesn’t.Parents affirm a child’s reality in life.Based on 1970s TV, Stephanie internalized messages about women and their place in the world.Stephanie feels compelled to act when she sees an injustice.You don’t tell lies to children.A Huffington Post article about trans children and their parents triggered Stephanie to write her first book.In 2014, the BBC released a TV program for kids, named I Am Leo, about a transitioning girl.Stephanie thinks the U.S. was approximately five years ahead of the UK in detransition information.The impact of the pressure of objectification and stereotypes on teens.Feminism is not taught in schools, Identity Politics are.The need to critique organizations that make money from women.Acknowledging gender differences empowers young people to better understand themselves.We can make better decisions if we are aware of the messages we get from our culture.LGBTQ+ groups in schools may pigeonhole kids who just want to be non-conforming or non-conventional.Stephanie examines social contagion in teens.Stephanie receiving the British Empire Medal represents a sea of change.In 5‒10 years, Stephanie believes huge changes will... This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

This is Part 1 of a 2-part series on desistance. The difference between desistance and detransition is quite stark and in this episode, Sasha and Stella focus on the complex experience of desistance. How might a child come to desist? What facilitates or hinders this process, and what complicated feelings go along with this experience? Sasha and Stella also discuss the changes that have arisen in recent years and how compared to previous generations, society today responds very differently to children with gender dysphoria. In the next episode on desistance, EP 80, Sasha and Stella will help answer the question: How can I tell if my ROGD child may be desisting?Links:Cantor’s analysis of the desistance literature: http://www.sexologytoday.org/2016/01/do-trans-kids-stay-trans-when-they-grow_99.html Follow-up study of boys with Gender Identity Disorder: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2021.632784/fullExtended NotesThe word desistance means a person no longer wants to transition.Stella shares her journey of feeling as if she was a girl and also a boy.It can be horrifying when people don’t understand how one feels about their gender.Attempting to will yourself into a new reality.With puberty comes consciousness of reality.For thousands of years, people repressed their sexuality and gender and lived a lie.Growing up in today’s technology-driven world is vastly different from being a teen in the past.There is a correlation between gender non-conforming children and being gay, lesbian, or bi-sexual.A 2021 study showed that 80% of dysphoric boys desisted and 64% were gay.Stella shares her thoughts on This Is How It Always Is: A Novel by Laurie Frankel.Desistance does happen and often teens are grateful they didn’t make permanent changes.Desistance requires a reckoning.Gender issues have been polarized in political realms.Stella wanted to be powerful and feminine when she was 17.A person’s peer group can make it easier or harder for them to desist.People flip-flop their identities all the time.Taking a deeper look into fluidity between identities.Navigating the shame that can accompany questioning gender identity.Desistance can be a coming-of-age process.This podcast is sponsored by ReIME and Genspect. Visit https://rethinkime.org/ and https://genspect.org/ to learn more.For more about our show: https://linktr.ee/WiderLensPod This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

In this second episode on detransition (following from EP 74), Sasha and Stella dig into several pieces of research on detransition experiences. They discuss surveys and case studies and analyze the data which is forming a picture of why detransition happens and what appropriate therapeutic care might look like for this vulnerable group. Themes emerge such as misattributing distress to the body’s sex, unprocessed grief and trauma, medical complications, and dissatisfaction with medical transition.Links:Genspect Analysis of detrans Reddit survey: https://genspect.org/analysis-of-reddit-detrans-survey/Pablo Exposito-Campos Detransition Paper: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/0092623X.2020.1869126Lisa Littman’s Research Papers: https://littmanresearch.com/publications/Littman on Gender: A Wider Lens Podcast — EP 52: https://gender-a-wider-lens.captivate.fm/episode/52-gender-dysphoria-detransition-research-a-conversation-w-dr-lisa-littmanGenspect Highlights of Lisa’s Paper: https://genspect.org/detransition-highlights-of-dr-littmans-latest-peer-reviewed-study/Case Study: “Maya,” Lisa Marchiano https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1468-5922.12711 The Seventh Penis, Bob Withers: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25989331/Detransition-Related Needs & Support Survey, Vandenbussche: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00918369.2021.1919479Detrans reddit survey (not formal data) https://www.reddit.com/r/detrans/comments/srpp27/the_rdetrans_demographic_survey_screened_and/Taking the Lid off the Box: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/330911243_'Taking_the_lid_off_the_box'_The_value_of_extended_clinical_assessment_for_adolescents_presenting_with_gender_identity_difficultiesExtended NotesThe 1% regret rate stat is misleading.There is no clear understanding of how many people change their minds about transitioning.Gender dysphoria is different than sex dysphoria.Some are disappointed because they say the physical reality of transitioning wasn't very satisfying.We are all vain. We all care about how we look.There are medical complications with transition surgery.Does a relationship to sexual orientation keep someone in a trans-identity longer?Autistic people might be more likely to remain transitioned.In one study, 70% of respondents said they... This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

Lisa Duval is a licensed clinical psychologist who has worked with children, teens, and families for over 30 years. She is also the mother of a “fiercely gender-questioning” 18-year-old daughter, who has been male-identified for the last 5 years. She works with ROGD teens in an exploratory, empowering, feminist, and body-positive way, affirming their beautiful, complicated selves but not simply their trans identities. We start with Lisa describing the old DSM multiaxial system, which was actually discarded in the current version, version 5. In Axis 2, we had cognitive and personality disorders, including borderline personality disorder. Listeners often ask me and Stella about potential links between borderline personality constellations and gender issues, so we were really excited to speak with Lisa about this. For starters, Lisa shares why borderline personality disorder should rarely ever be diagnosed in teens, though sometimes you might hear psychiatrists say a child has some “borderline traits.” We delve into how common, and almost quintessential, these traits are as a part of normal adolescent development.Lisa then explains a fascinating theory: not only are kids with these traits perhaps more vulnerable to ROGD but also that aspects of gender identity ideology iatrogenically create borderline dynamics in dysphoric kids. In other words, gender ideology and a dogmatic affirmation approach could be causing and exacerbating these borderline traits. We also have a chance to explore the overlap between expressions of Autism and Borderline, and Lisa comments on a previous discussion we had about this with Dr. Susan Bradley in Ep. 65. At the end of the episode, Lisa shares a really interesting way she and her clients have been able to circumvent the issue of picking a new cross-sex name while exploring gender identity.Extended NotesLisa explains the personality disorders in Axis 2.Lisa grew up with parents who were diagnosed with personality disorders.If you work with people at a young age you can make a difference.Personality disorders can be trauma-based or genetically sourced.Diagnosing a disorder or behavior during the teenage years is not advised.Teenagers may naturally have a persecution fantasy.Falsely diagnosing gender dysphoria creates a personality structure that is in opposition to integration.A borderline personality disorder is in between neurosis and psychosis.Most gender therapists believe they are helping children.Lisa shares ways ROGD parents can connect with their kids and how clinicians can work with Cluster B people.Examining incredibly liberal parents and the response from teens who want their own thing.Lisa stresses the importance of giving children the agency to figure things out on their own.Kids are hearing from multiple sources that if their parents don’t support them the parents are wrong.Lisa pioneered the concept of an iatrogenic personality disorder.For children, it is important for them to integrate the different parts of themselves.Strategies for integration and gender roles that encourage children to maintain all sides of themselves.This podcast is sponsored by ReIME and Genspect. Visit https://rethinkime.org/ and https://genspect.org/ to learn more.For more about our show: https://linktr.ee/WiderLensPod This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com