We Made This Political Podcast

Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall host Joe Waters, CEO of Capita, to discuss how government should promote the common good by creating social conditions that help people and families flourish. Waters explains Capita’s founding in 2018 to address how major transformations—artificial intelligence, demographic change, political realignment, and climate disruption—affect families, and to push longer-term policy thinking beyond short-term fixes. He highlights Capita’s work with the Aspen Institute on the U.S. Early Years Climate Action Task Force and its Unifying Family Policy series. The conversation focuses on public distrust driven by systems failures, the need for politicians to listen more directly to constituents, and the importance of stability and predictability in work schedules and public institutions. They also discuss mental health as shaped by family and community conditions, Waters’ Catholic social teaching framework, and sources of optimism including springtime and anticipated papal interventions.00:00 Common Good Defined00:44 Podcast Introductions02:18 Why Capita Exists05:52 Climate and Early Years08:08 Family Policy Agenda10:27 Wicked Problems Framework11:58 Center Left Lost Narrative17:20 FDR Lessons on Trust19:17 Listening and Access Gap26:47 Stability and Predictability29:47 Unpredictability And Politics30:48 Regressive Impacts Of Closures32:01 Institution Attacks And Chaos33:54 Democrats And Durable Governance34:42 Cuts Medicaid Snap Fallout36:15 Exploitation And Anti Incumbent Wave37:43 Mental Health Beyond Individuals42:07 Common Good And Citizenship45:59 Stability Across Ideologies49:56 Catholic Social Teaching Lens51:22 Wrap Up And Where To Follow52:18 Optimism Spring And Pope Leo54:33 Final Thanks And OutroResourcesFind Joe and his podcast Per Capita at Capita.org. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall interview Mike Lee, director of the Civility Initiative at the College of Charleston and host of When We Disagree, about how to improve disagreement through both debate and dialogue. Lee argues dialogue requires letting go of winning to humanize conflict and preserve long-term relationships, while debate uses evidence and stress-testing to clarify issues and strengthen arguments; done well, each supports the other. Hall shares a pandemic-era student government conflict involving Slack disputes, Blue Lives Matter symbolism, privacy, and free speech, which revealed the need for dialogue alongside principled adjudication. They discuss conflict avoidance on campuses, perspective-taking and mentalizing, structured on-ramps and accessible topics to make disagreement less threatening, and whether media can scale healthier models via parasocial contact. Lee ends with optimism about people’s hunger for connection and the return of sunshine in Charleston.Thanks for reading We Made This Political Podcast! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.00:00 Dialogue vs Debate00:41 Podcast Introductions02:20 Civility Initiative Explained03:30 Why the Distinction Matters05:56 Campus Conflict Case Study10:09 Forbearance and Relationships11:26 Do Students Want to Win15:13 Debate Kids and Parenting18:56 Active Listening Can Weaponize23:52 Conflict Avoidance on Campus27:26 Three Ways to Spark Debate31:35 Curiosity Shift Drill33:33 Debate as Perspective Taking36:46 Mentalization Against Tribalism40:28 Can Good Debate Scale43:43 Adam Smith and Sympathy47:58 Parasocial Contact Through Media52:12 Teaching Dialogue in Class54:32 Adversarial Collaboration Model58:51 Hopeful Closing and PlugsResourcesYou can find Mike’s books here: Creating ConservatismWe Are Not One People: Secession and Separatism in American Politics Since 1776 This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall host Elizabeth Neumann, former DHS assistant secretary for counterterrorism and author of Kingdom of Rage, to discuss how dynamics long studied overseas—radicalization, identity threat, and extremist mobilization—have intensified in U.S. politics, with data showing a post-2016 shift in plots and attacks and a growing public tolerance for hostile action. Neumann argues ideology is often a poor explanation for violence compared with unmet needs for belonging and significance, crisis moments, and pervasive online exposure to extremist content; she distinguishes radical ideas from extremism, defined as believing hostile action is the only choice. The conversation covers dehumanizing discourse as a key driver, the limits of arguing people out of beliefs, the role of empathy in disengagement, algorithmic rage incentives, smartphone-era mental health and nihilism, gender patterns in attacks, and redefining success and meaning amid uncertainty.00:00 Podcast Welcome01:04 Meet Elizabeth Neumann02:13 When Threats Came Home04:47 Fragile Communities Parallel08:12 Beyond Ideology Labels11:14 Defining Extremism Clearly13:05 Hostile Action Spectrum16:26 Tribalism and Belonging18:31 Labels and Language Traps22:21 Harm Discourse Spiral26:04 How People Disengage29:26 Empathy With Boundaries31:47 Daryl Davis Example34:15 Empathy and Backstory36:00 Why Rage Spreads39:12 Always Online Effects42:04 From Outrage to Violence45:16 Taking Back Control46:25 Gender and Extremism52:01 Meaning and Uncertainty01:00:00 Redefining Success01:05:27 Values and Hopeful Paths01:07:11 Where to Find Elizabeth01:08:06 Closing CreditsResourcesRead Elizabeth’s book Kingdom of Rage and follow her on Substack, where she writes the newsletter, Courageous Faith. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

In the final episode of their parenting series, hosts Laura Forcum and Lauren Hall recap conversations with Peter Gray, Darby Saxby, and Helen Roy, focusing on what it would mean to take care seriously in a culture that undervalues and genders care. They discuss how care has become siloed and often invisible through professionalization, regulation, and divided civic spaces, with COVID highlighting schools as major providers of childcare. They argue that weakened communal networks and heightened risk aversion reduce alloparenting, limit children’s practice navigating different rules, and contribute to passivity and reliance on authority. Linking self-knowledge, intuition, and agency to civic health, they emphasize cultivating agency through habits, discomfort, chores, and solitude, aiming for flourishing rather than comfort, and close by recommending prior episodes and sharing family milestones.00:00 Final Episode Setup01:37 Why Care Matters04:44 Punch the Monkey Lesson10:10 COVID Revealed Childcare12:18 Care in Public Spaces15:18 Small Town Responsibility17:29 Losing Care Skills21:03 Regulation Makes Help Hard24:58 Alloparenting and Risk27:09 Discipline and Flexibility32:58 Self Trust and Authority35:46 Judging Law as Citizens37:57 Intuition and Power39:37 Agency Against Authority43:49 Systems That Train Compliance46:21 Civic Solitude and Boredom49:22 Parenting for Values59:06 Flourishing Not Comfort01:01:11 Civic Mindset at Home01:02:46 Wrap Up and Gratitude This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Lura and Lauren welcome writer and mother of four Helen Roy of Helen Roy Writes to the podcast We Made This Political for their parenting month series. Roy describes how her early work as an analyst at the Defense Intelligence Agency, graduate study in Western moral tradition and Aristotle’s virtue ethics, and concern about national identity and lack of grand strategy led her to see the family as a basic unit of civilization and parenting as work with deep civic meaning. She shares how meeting her husband (her first Bumble date) shifted her view of family life, and emphasizes that raising a family can be central without diminishing intellectual or professional work. The conversation turns to Roy’s “Call Your Mom” advice series and her view of feminism, which she identifies as “care feminism” and “Catholic feminism,” drawing in part from radical Black feminist legacies that center care as legitimate economic, spiritual, and politically significant work. They discuss care as protection and resistance, including examples from the history of Black midwifery, and criticize contemporary conservative anti-feminist arguments that dismiss feminism by redefining it narrowly while taking for granted feminist achievements such as age-of-consent reforms and legal protections. Roy argues misogyny remains present in culture and politics, citing public reactions and comments around the Epstein files as attempts to minimize women’s anger and enforce silence. Roy explains how these convictions shape her parenting: teaching daughters not to abandon themselves, cultivating attention to inner voice and God’s voice, reinforcing bodily integrity by not forcing affection, and protecting boundaries around children’s bodies. She describes writing advice in the voice she herself needed—offering mentorship and insisting romantic love should imitate divine love. Roy also reflects on her movement away from rigid, black-and-white thinking, saying early motherhood—especially a traumatic birth experience and health consequences from rigid breastfeeding ideals—humbled her and pushed her toward moderation and complexity. The episode closes with Roy’s view that optimism is both natural and a deliberate choice, echoing her mother’s note that “optimism is a force multiplier,” and she shares where listeners can find her work on Substack and Instagram.00:00 Welcome to the Podcast + Meet Helen Roy01:56 Parenting as Civic Life: When Family Becomes Political02:34 From National Security to Aristotle: Family as the Unit of Civilization07:06 Meaning in the Concrete: Grand Strategy, Faith, and Subsidiarity09:25 Is There a ‘Helen Roy Feminism’? Introducing Care Feminism15:21 Care as Resistance: Black Midwifery and the Politics of Protection18:04 Why Feminism Still Matters: Rights, History, and Conservative Anti-Feminism23:53 Women’s Work in Religion & the New Pushback on Women’s Humanity28:49 Misogyny in Plain Sight: Epstein Files, ‘Smile More,’ and Silencing Women35:40 Parenting Daughters (and Sons) with Human Dignity in Mind36:43 Parenting Girls in an Unfair World (and What We Do to Boys Too)37:33 Raising Kids Not to Abandon Themselves: Inner Voice, God’s Voice & Boundaries39:53 Body Integrity & Intuition as a ‘Superpower’42:01 ‘You’re Made for So Much More’: Emotional & Spiritual Integrity in Love43:32 Writing Advice as Mentorship: The Voice She Needed Growing Up46:33 Rejecting ‘Pottery Barn Catholicism’ & Fundamentalist Mommy Culture50:42 Radical Moderation: Escaping Gender Binaries and One-Brand Feminism52:37 From Extremes to Humility: Motherhood, Trauma, and Letting Go of Certainty58:08 Grace, Control, and Being ‘Broken Open’ (With or Without Kids)59:34 Optimism as a Choice: Hope, Destiny, and Closing ReflectionsResourcesHelen’s amazing Substack is here: https://helenroy.substack.com/aboutFurther ReadingDiscussed in the episode include Chantal Delsol’s book Icarus Fallen. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall host an episode of We Made This Political featuring clinical psychologist and USC professor Darby Saxbe, whose research focuses on the transition to parenthood, fathers’ roles, and how family relationships shape mental and physical health. The conversation covers alloparenting and humans as cooperative breeders, arguing that shared caregiving and community support are central to healthy parenting and maternal mental health. They discuss how modern U.S. life—built environments, isolation, intensive parenting norms, and limited policy supports—raises stress for parents and may deter family formation. Saxbe notes evidence across OECD countries that higher male contributions to housework and parenting are positively correlated with birth rates, and argues that coercive or women-disadvantaging pronatalist approaches are counterproductive, citing Romania as a warning. They critique polarized “trad wife vs. girl boss” framings, discuss the Heritage Foundation’s pronatalist messaging and gender-hostile narratives, and also acknowledge left-leaning cultural messages that can shade into hostility toward families. The episode touches on marriage declines, men’s increasing time with children, the influence of manosphere content on boys, and the importance of raising boys to be capable partners through non-gendered expectations around care and domestic labor. They compare child-friendliness across countries (including Denmark, Sweden, Spain, South Korea, and Mexico), emphasizing public spaces, zoning, and liability structures that shape family life. Saxbe closes with cautious optimism that current political and cultural turbulence could lead to renewed valuing of care, and the hosts encourage listeners to read Saxbe’s Substack Natal Gazing and pre-order her upcoming book on the neurobiology of fatherhood.00:00 Birth Rates & the Case for Dads Doing More at Home00:47 Meet the Hosts + Introducing Psychologist Darby Saxbe02:18 Why Study Fatherhood? Darby’s Origin Story04:38 Alloparenting 101: Humans as Cooperative Breeders08:50 Isolation, “What’s Natural,” and the Myth of the 1950s Family11:33 The Rise of Intensive Parenting (and Why It’s Crushing Parents)15:28 What’s Really Behind Falling Birth Rates? Money, Stress, and Gender Roles17:47 Pronatalism vs Antinatalism: How Family Became a Culture-War Issue25:01 Toxic Narratives on Right and Left: Tradwife vs Girlboss30:36 Where Are the Men? Fatherhood, Marriage, and the Manosphere34:04 A Better Model in Academia: When Leadership Supports Parents34:30 No Parental Leave Policy: Finding an Ally in the Department Chair35:43 Why Parent Representation in Politics Shapes Family Policy36:22 When Maternity Leave Depends on One Mentor (and Why That’s a Problem)37:29 Suspicion Toward Moms, Praise for Dads: The Cultural Double Standard39:34 Policy Isn’t Everything: Sweden, Incentives, and the Need for Culture Change41:00 The Real Tradeoffs of Parenting + Where Kids Do (and Don’t) Belong44:20 South Korea’s No-Kids Signs vs. Mexico’s Child-Delight Culture48:48 What Family-Friendly Cities Look Like: Denmark, Sweden, Barcelona, Austria52:48 Zoning, Liability, and the Case for More ‘Beer Gardens with Playgrounds’55:08 Raising Boys Today: Algorithms, Masculinity, and Teaching Self-Sufficiency01:00:33 Optimism, Plugs, and Farewell: Care, Realignment, and the New BookResources:Pre-order Darby’s book Dad Brain, coming in June.Read her current work on her Substack Natal Gazing.Some other great thinkers on biology and parenting: Sarah Blaffer Hrdy’s books Mother Nature and Mothers and Others This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

In this episode of ‘We Made This Political,’ hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall are joined by Peter Gray, research psychologist and professor emeritus at Boston College, to discuss the crucial role of play in human development and education. Peter shares insights from his studies on the impact of unstructured play, autonomy, and curiosity on children’s psychological well-being and learning. Through personal anecdotes and research findings, the conversation explores how current schooling systems quash curiosity and independence, and suggests ways parents can foster a more play-driven and exploratory environment for their children at home. This episode is a deep dive into understanding how play and freedom influence growth, independence, and lifelong happiness.00:00 The Power of Curiosity00:43 Introduction of Hosts and Guest01:30 Peter Gray’s Background and Influence03:30 The Concept of ‘Good Enough’ Parenting04:10 Peter Gray’s Journey into Play Research05:48 The Sudbury Valley School Experience09:06 Observational Study on Play14:01 Evolutionary Perspective on Play and Learning21:19 Challenges in Modern Education and Parenting32:59 The Flaws of Traditional Schooling33:40 The Power of Play in Career Development35:46 Misalignment of Career Aspirations and Interests40:07 The Increasing Burden of School on Children43:35 The Criminalization of Common Sense Parenting50:54 The Democratic Nature of Play58:58 Optimism for the Future of Education01:03:11 Final Thoughts and Encouragement for ParentsResourcesPeter Gray’s Substack Play Makes Us HumanPeter’s book Free to LearnLet Grow website, with resources for families, schools, and policymakers on fostering independent play This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

In this episode of ‘We Made This Political,’ hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall host documentary filmmaker Rob Feld. The conversation delves into the increasing polarization in American politics and public discourse, highlighting the impact of social media and algorithms. Rob shares insights from his film ‘Jesters and Fools,’ which uses comedians to explore polarization, cancel culture and self-censorship. Topics include the roles of outrage and anger in comedy, the challenges of civil discourse in higher education, and parenting in the digital age. The episode also touches on the importance of engaging with those who hold differing views to foster understanding and move past divisions.00:00 Introduction to Political Centrism and Extremism00:53 Meet the Hosts: Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall02:05 Introducing Rob Feld: Documentary Filmmaker02:38 The Making of ‘Jesters and Fools’08:19 The Role of Comedians in Discussing Polarization17:44 Impact of Social Media on Public Discourse19:23 Challenges in Higher Education and Free Speech27:28 Navigating Online and Offline Interactions36:46 The Impact of Online Echo Chambers38:08 Parenting in the Age of Social Media45:00 The Role of Outrage in Comedy52:39 The Importance of Free Speech and Civic Dialogue01:01:50 Hope and Optimism in a Polarized WorldResourcesMore about Jesters and Fools, including how to schedule a screening.Find out more about Rob and his production studio Gotham Arts. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

In this episode of We Made This Political, Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall talk with Emma Adams, founder and co-executive director of Mormon Women for Ethical Government (MWEG). Emma shares her journey from refugee resettlement volunteer to leading a national organization advocating for ethical governance. The discussion covers MWEG’s mission, peacemaking principles, and fostering bipartisan cooperation. The episode offers insights on navigating political and social conflicts with dignity, understanding, and practical skills for resilience and change.00:00 Introduction and Hosts’ Backgrounds00:49 Guest Introduction: Emma Adams02:02 Emma’s Journey to Advocacy03:31 Founding of Mormon Women for Ethical Government06:34 MWEG’s Mission and Advocacy Areas08:17 Empowering Women in Leadership16:09 Peacemaking and Conflict Transformation20:22 Navigating Political Identity and Engagement26:20 Challenges and Criticisms of Radical Moderation35:13 Skills Building and Philosophy37:02 Parenting and Professional Life39:55 Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and Parenting43:45 Political Violence and Community Response59:38 Hope and Optimism in Challenging TimesResourcesMormon Women For Ethical Government This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

In this episode of ‘We Made This Political,’ hosts Lauren Hall and Laura Forcum welcome back Shannon Watson, a civic leader from Minnesota, to discuss the current political climate in the state. They explore how Minnesotans are coping with federal interventions, the challenges of polarization, and the importance of local engagement and community resilience. Shannon shares insights on the nuanced reality of Minnesota, highlighting the state’s high civic participation and the critical role of relationship building in addressing political divides. The conversation also touches on the importance of peaceful protest, the rule of law, and efforts to bridge gaps through organizations like Majority in the Middle and What We Can Do Week.00:00 Introduction to the Podcast and Hosts01:44 Welcoming Shannon Watson03:07 Current Political Climate in Minnesota07:09 Community Engagement and Civic Participation08:50 Challenges and Emotions Amidst Political Tensions18:19 Protests and Legal Boundaries30:36 Law Enforcement and Public Perception31:57 Behind the Scenes Efforts to Deescalate33:17 The Importance of Full Investigations34:14 Law Enforcement and Public Trust40:56 The Role of Community Organizations47:45 Building Relationships and Trust53:16 The Power of Breaking Bread56:52 Hope and Resilience in Challenging Times58:37 Conclusion and Final ThoughtsMore ResourcesThe Civic Pledge is at www.whatwecandoweek.org/pledgeFind Majority in the Middle at www.majoritymiddle.orgIf you’d like to support Shannon’s depolarization work at Majority in the Middle, consider donating in honor of her birthday at www.majoritymiddle.org/51 This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com