The Next Level

How concerned voters are toward Joe Biden's old age might be the biggest determining factor to whether he beats Donald Trump in 2024; and Tim got into it with FiveThirtyEight founder Nate Silver over how much the liberal media is covering it. Plus, the GOP is trying to decide whether to shutdown the government or impeach Biden, and Elon Musk claims the Anti-Defamation League is the reason X/Twitter's profits are so low.ANNOUNCEMENT: The Next Level’s YouTube page will be folded in to the main Bulwark channel starting October 4. Subscribe to watch the gang record each episode going forward here: https://www.youtube.com/@UCG4Hp1KbGw4e02N7FpPXDgQ

You should be alarmed.The Secret Show is exclusively for Bulwark+ members. To listen to the rest of this show and gain access to all Bulwark+ member benefits (newsletters, podcasts and more!) sign up today at TheBulwark.com/secret.NOTE: There is no Sunday show interview this week because of Labor Day weekend. They will return next week!

One week after the first GOP debate, nothing has changed and Trump is still dominant. Plus, conservative pundits now say Trump will get more Black votes because he has a mugshot, and DeSantis heads to Florida to deal with two tragic events. Sonny Bunch subs in for Sarah to discuss!View the Biden and DeSantis picture here: https://www.miamiherald.com/latest-news/il47u4/picture266923026/alternates/FREE_1140/AP22278716941078.jpgANNOUNCEMENT: The Next Level’s YouTube page will be folded in to the main Bulwark channel starting October 6. Subscribe to watch the gang record each episode going forward here: https://www.youtube.com/@bulwarkmedia

Rep. Marie Gluesenkamp Perez pulled off a surprise win against Republican Joe Kent in the 2022 midterms, and since entering Congress has made a name for herself as a truly moderate Democrat. Tim asks her about progressives calling her a "Kyrsten Sinema wannabe" for her vote against student loan forgiveness, as well as the Democratic Party's struggles with working class, rural voters, and the congresswoman's prior career in auto repair.Watch Tim interview Rep. Gluesenkamp Perez here: https://youtu.be/ML2qd-ik3hA

Sarah and JVL catch up on the debate—about Nikki and Ron and Vivek. And about Trump’s mugshot.Warning: Sarah’s audio is a little wonky.The Secret Show is exclusively for Bulwark+ members. To listen to the rest of this show and gain access to all Bulwark+ member benefits (newsletters, podcasts and more!) sign up today at TheBulwark.com/secret.

Tim and JVL went live with Tom Nichols and Semafor's Ben Smith on The Bulwark's YouTube channel last night immediately after the first GOP debate. Listen to their first take reactions right after closing arguments ended! Watch the recording and subscribe to the channel to stay up to date on future livestreams here: https://youtube.com/live/MZep4APpcR4?feature=share

The gang talks the stakes for the GOP presidential candidates not named Donald Trump who qualified for the first primary debate on Fox News.Watch the gang record this episode here: https://youtu.be/V93uXEDayto

Robbie Kaplan, the lawyer who represented E. Jean Carroll in her civil suit against Donald Trump, joins Tim to discuss her win against the former president for sexual abuse. She also gives her opinion on the current indictments against Trump, including which one could go to trial before the 2024 election, and her Supreme Court case that helped pave the way for marriage equality.Watch Tim interview Robbie on our YouTube channel here: https://youtu.be/atasEPqnzA4

A Very Special Episode.The Secret Show is exclusively for Bulwark+ members. To listen to the rest of this show and gain access to all Bulwark+ member benefits (newsletters, podcasts and more!) sign up today at TheBulwark.com/secret.

The gang plays a little game: What are the odds Trump a) Becomes president, b) Goes to jail, or c) Neither? Let us know what you think the odds are in the comments!Plus, another ignorant country song storms the charts, and Trump apparently DM'ed a lot of people on the app formerly known as Twitter.Watch the gang record this episode on our YouTube channel here: https://youtu.be/ChWTYpojUsY Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ever wonder how homelessness has gotten so bad in America? And why there appears to be no successful efforts to solve it? The Atlantic's Jerusalem Demsas joins Tim and JVL to answer every question they have about this massive problem. It's a truly in-depth discussion you won't want to miss!Watch the Tim and JVL interview Jerusalem on our official YouTube channel here: https://youtu.be/qCsd1O4-hdI Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sarah and JVL talk about the politics of Joe Biden’s Hunter problem and the game theory on whether or not Ron DeSantis should stay in the race.The Secret Show is exclusively for Bulwark+ members. To listen to the rest of this show and gain access to all Bulwark+ member benefits (newsletters, podcasts and more!) sign up today at TheBulwark.com/secret. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Tim recounts his trip to Iowa to watch GOP presidential candidates make their weak bids for the nomination over Trump, Including Ron DeSantis, who just replaced his campaign manager. And the so-called "pro-women's sports integrity" conservatives are relishing the U.S. women's soccer team getting knock out of the World Cup. Plus, Ohio shuts down GOP attempts to make constitutional amendments (abortion rights) harder, and Sarah gives updates on what her focus groups think of "on the rise" Tim Scott.Watch the gang record this episode on our YouTube channel here: https://youtu.be/4HnSr4lg1i0 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Country artist Amanda Shires joins Tim to discuss Nashville politics, abortion (including her life threatening ectopic pregnancy), being a liberal singer in a conservative genre, starting the all-female country group The Highwomen and more!Plus, Tim gives his thoughts on the latest arraignment of former president Donald Trump.Find Amanda's tour dates here: https://amandashiresmusic.com/Loving You: https://atorecords-ffm.com/lovingyouHighwomen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7D-6nklMMbMSummertime: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aW1a4fM8X0Watch Tim interview Amanda on our Youtube channel here: https://youtu.be/txZcSgqPLWk Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sarah and JVL talk about the latest arraignment.The Secret Show is exclusively for Bulwark+ members. To listen to the rest of this show and gain access to all Bulwark+ member benefits (newsletters, podcasts and more!) sign up today at TheBulwark.com/secret. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It's the latest indictment of former President Donald Trump, this time on the most dangerous charges yet: 2020 election interference. What will this mean for the 2024 race? What are the worst defenses of Trump's actions? Will Trump be put on trial during the general election? The gang breaks down all of this and more on today's The Next Level!Watch the gang record this video on our YouTube channel here: https://youtu.be/wsy1J7RSybY Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ron Filipkowski joins Tim to talk his journey from lawyer to never-Trump political commentator. Together, they analyze the MAGA transformation of the party they once called home, lambast Ron DeSantis' attempts to peel off Trump supporters, and explain how he balances his day job with his constant tweets on conservative crazies.Watch Tim interview Ron here: https://youtu.be/0dLxCE86VuQ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sarah and JVL talk about Jack Smith’s superseding indictment, Hunter Biden not getting pardoned, Sarah’s new campaign, and Barbenheimer. It’s a pretty good show this week.The Secret Show is exclusively for Bulwark+ members. To listen to the rest of this show and gain access to all Bulwark+ member benefits (newsletters, podcasts and more!) sign up today at TheBulwark.com/secret. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

DeSantis attempts to reboot his campaign with by firing a third of his staff, one of whom apparently made videos with Nazi symbolism. Plus, Kevin McCarthy teases an impeachment inquiry of President Biden, progressives turn on AOC, and a bizarre conservative ad makes it way online.Watch the gang record this episode on our YouTube channel here: https://youtu.be/UIQ-eZtkUxMFor a podcast without talks-too-much Tim Miller, subscribe to Bulwark+ and get The Secret Podcast with Sarah and JVL. Here's a link to get 30-days FREE to try it out: thebulwark.com/secret. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ben McKenzie (The O.C., Gotham) joins Tim and JVL to talk his new book, "Easy Money: Cryptocurrency, Casino Capitalism, and the Golden Age of Fraud." They discuss his investigation into cryptocurrency during the COVID-19 pandemic, pushback from supporters of crypto, finding a fulfilling mission later in life, and his lifelong vendetta with Chad Michael Murray!Plus, Tim and JVL talk about the impact of Trump’s trial and potential conviction on the presidential race.You can purchase Ben's book here: https://www.amazon.com/Easy-Money-Cryptocurrency-Casino-Capitalism/dp/1419766392Watch Tim and JVL interview Ben on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAaIN1KkNbk Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sarah and JVL dig into Ron DeSantis’s awful campaign reset and then try to figure out just what the No Labels people are thinking.Check out all The Secret Podcast episodes here: https://thesecretpodcast.thebulwark.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Trump and DeSantis had major interviews last night, and both were consumed by the former's third indictment yet. Trump doesn't even need to defend himself with DeSantis repeating all his talking points!Plus, Democratic Sen. Joe Manchin and former Republican Gov. Jon Huntsman tease with forming a "unity" ticket doomed to fail and put Trump back in the White House. And Mike Pence might not even qualify for the first GOP primary debate, proving he really is just a glutton for punishment.DeSantis' South Carolina exchange: https://twitter.com/GiancarloSopo/status/1681083703760506881Watch the gang record this episode here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWGfpg5y8SM Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jen Psaki joins Tim and Sarah this week to talk what Biden needs to do to win in 2024, whether his age is an issue, her time in the White House, and the transition to hosting her own TV show on MSNBC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Secret Podcast Preview: The weird disconnect between the vibes the actual real state of the economy.The Secret Show is exclusively for Bulwark+ members. To listen to the rest of this show and gain access to all Bulwark+ member benefits (newsletters, podcasts and more!) sign up today at TheBulwark.com/secret Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The key whistleblower the GOP has been touting as a smoking gun against President Biden, along with his son Hunter, has been charged with failing to register as a foreign asset for China. And Tucker Carlson plans to host a forum without Trump. Will it do anything to save DeSantis' floundering campaign?Plus, what do Trump 2016-Biden 2020 voters think of the state of the country? Will they be Trump 2024 voters soon? Sarah gives some Focus Group insight to the gang.Watch the gang record this episode here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkpFXXUSQAk Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hot comedian on the rise Alex Edelman joins Tim to discuss his show, Just for Us, and its debut on Broadway, alongside Judaism, white nationalism, comedy itself, and why he's the reverse of JD Vance. Plus, Tim and JVL discuss Hunter Biden's secret child in Arkansas, and what President Joe Biden should do, both politically and morally. Just for Us plays at the Hudson Theatre on Broadway until August 19th. Watch Tim interview Alex here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKgSs916Utk Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Secret Show is exclusively for Bulwark+ members. To listen to the rest of this show and gain access to all Bulwark+ member benefits (newsletters, podcasts and more!) sign up today at https://thebulwark.com/secret Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sarah is back this week to talk all things SCOTUS, as the gang breaks down this year's rulings and what they mean for the country. Plus, Ron DeSantis' campaign tries to out flank Trump to the right by arguing he's a bigger homophobe. And is Vivek Ramaswamy in a race for distant second against him? Watch the gang record this episode on TNL's official YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqCs3ge_vVc Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Tim sits down with sportswriter and ESPN Daily host Pablo S. Torre to discuss how sports, the last unifying cultural touchstone in America, has started to be corrupted by polarization. They get into the cringy identity politics of both the left and the right when it comes to athletics, along with some NBA commentary and Denver Nuggets debate!Plus, Tim breaks down his thoughts on SCOTUS ruling against Harvard’s and UNC’s affirmative action policies.Watch Tim interview Pablo here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_x50CSNQRw Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Bill Kristol sits in for Sarah today and we talked about a lot. What the 2024 election looks like from Europe; the war in Ukraine; Mike Pence; the Republican elites; No Labels; and even some Casablanca. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Tim and JVL sat down with Lt Col. Alexander Vindman to breakdown the almost civil war in Russia and what it could mean for Vladimir Putin down the line. Check out The Bulwark's YouTube channel to watch the full conversation here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vVMS2rgaA0 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker Kevin McCarthy says Trump might not be the strongest candidate in 2024, but immediately walks it back as loyalists rage against him, and DeSantis' poll numbers are pathetic. Plus, Joe Perticone joins Tim and JVL to discuss reporting on the Hill and breakdown new developments with normie Republicans, the Freedom Caucus, and the Squad. Watch the gang record this episode here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CLVhcTZ0CU Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On this week's TNL Sunday, Tim and JVL interview Reid Hoffman, a founding member of OpenAI, aka the creators of ChatGPT. Together they discuss how the future of humanity could unfold as artificial intelligence becomes more and more advanced. They also talk Elon Musk's venture into politics and the possible reason why he made such a choice. Plus, Tim and JVL breakdown good Republican Will Hurd becoming the latest not-Trump candidate to enter the 2024 GOP primary. Watch Tim and JVL interview Reid here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0IB2jstIhk Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sarah and JVL talk about the latest 2 percent candidate and the Pew survey on what Democrats and Republicans really want. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Donald Trump and Hunter Biden both admit they broke the law, but under very different circumstances. Plus, the second part of Bret Baier's interview with Trump aired last night, and he really doesn't understand the laws he's proposing. And what's up with RFK Jr.'s poll numbers? Amanda Carpenter joins Tim and JVL to discuss and share some special news! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sen. Tammy Baldwin joins Tim and Sarah to breakdown her lifetime of firsts as an openly gay politician, her coming out story in the 80s, the art of being both progressive and bipartisan, and an assessment of Wisconsin politics heading into 2024.Plus, Tim and Sarah dissect JVL’s Triad … without him present!Watch Tim and Sarah interview Sen. Baldwin here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEitt5qu0sw Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

A report from the front line of the GOP primary. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Donald Trump has been arrested for the second time this year, and GOP voters somehow think he's the most electable of all Republican candidates. Plus, Fox News calls Biden a "Wannabe Dictator" and Tim takes a victory lap with the Denver Nuggets' championship win. Sonny Bunch fills in for Sarah on this week's show!Watch the gang record this episode on our official YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSjuNl6Pu4Q Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In the lead up to Father’s Day, author and podcast host Ryan Holiday joins Tim and JVL to talk the rewards and tribulations of being a dad. Ryan also talks to Tim about their similar experiences setting aside their less than moral professional careers to pursue more rewarding livelihoods.Plus, Tim and JVL discuss the second indictment of Trump and the damning evidence against him. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sarah and JVL talk about the big indictment. What it means for the Republican primary. How the Triangle of Doom is operating. And whether there’s any way out of this thing. The Secret pod is almost always locked for Bulwark+ members but this week we’re making the entire thing available to everyone, because it’s an important moment. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sonny joins JVL and Sarah to talk the ouster of Chris Licht from CNN after a devastating profile by Tim Alberta. Plus, Chris Christie and Mike Pence official enter the 2024 primary, the Saudis take over pro-golf, and Marjorie Taylor Greene is becoming more mainstream, alienating her from the other fringe members of her party.Watch the gang record this episode our official YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXgljzlXOIE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On a special Pride edition of TNL Sunday, Chasten Buttigieg joins Tim to discuss his new book, Josh Hawley's "Manhood," Ted Cruz's Uganda comments, and being a new parent while under the spotlight.Watch Tim interview Chasten here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=426Tjzws4kI Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sarah and JVL go to a perplexing place trying to figure out if the (very valuable) short-term good Kevin McCarthy has done regarding governing outweighs the long-term danger of normalizing white nationalists, insurrectionists, and other assorted crazies. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Republicans and President Joe Biden worked out a debt ceiling deal where Democrats gave major concessions ... and yet Speaker Kevin McCarthy is still being accused of caving to the libs.The gang also debates who's more MAGA: Ron DeSantis or Donald Trump? Plus, Chris Christie appears ready to launch another presidential campaign and Tara Reade moves to Russia.Watch the gang record this episode our official YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzFsrGpTW4E Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Bradley Whitford (The West Wing, Transparent) joins the Sunday show to talk The West Wing, criticisms of the show's idealistic politics, and his own evolution into an advocate for liberal causes and much more!Plus, Tim and JVL breakdown DeSantis' attempts to shake off the "establishment" label after his presidential campaign launch.Watch Tim and JVL interview Bradley here: https://youtu.be/6hbDyqu8qOo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sarah and JVL talk about the DeSantis launch, his January 6 pardon weasel words, and the norming of soft-authoritarianism.To get the full episode—and The Secret Podcast every week—join Bulwark+.Go to: https://thesecretpodcast.thebulwark.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It's all about Ron DeSantis and his upcoming announcement on Twitter Spaces tonight. What does the gang think of the move to launch his campaign with Elon Musk? Plus, a riff on Tim Scott's inconsequential run for president and a rant on Nate Silver's Never Trumper critiques.And tune in tonight on YouTube to watch all your favorite Bulwark personalities react to DeSantis' announcement live! Join here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPz-zmDUiuw Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sarah and JVL are joined by Molly Jong-Fast as part of The Bulwark's live event in NYC! Tune in to hear several "Are we going to fight?" moments while discussing Donald Trump's continuous popularity with Republicans, the cruelty of the latest allegations against Rudy Giuliani, and basically ever current and potential 2024 presidential contender. It's a wild show that you won't want to miss!Subscribe to The Next Level's YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_lAiayRbLUnTfPebOw-44g Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sarah, Tim and JVL went live yesterday during their recording to talk Dem wins in traditionally Republican cities, DeSantis' Iowa trip and his allied PAC walking back criticism of Trump, and the idea that Mike Pence might actually jump into the 2024 race. Plus, the gang takes questions from the audience!The Bulwark is heading to the Big Apple for a night of politics, laughs and maybe even a few tears—with special guest Molly Jong-Fast of the Fast Politics podcast.Come meet the gang from The Next Level and fellow Bulwark+ members in Manhattan on Thursday, May 18.For tickets go to TheBulwark.com/events. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Director, writer and producer David Mandel (Veep, Seinfeld) sits down with Tim to discuss his new HBO miniseries White House Plumbers and his fascination with the behind the scenes of Washington.SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Next week's TNL will be streamed LIVE on YouTube on The Bulwark's main channel. Tune in May 17th at 3 pm EST to watch Tim, Sarah, and JVL record in the same room for the first time in ages! The chat will be open to get ready to ask our hosts your burning questions! Join here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONVoAmys1Lg Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices