The Next Level

In the lead up to Father’s Day, author and podcast host Ryan Holiday joins Tim and JVL to talk the rewards and tribulations of being a dad. Ryan also talks to Tim about their similar experiences setting aside their less than moral professional careers to pursue more rewarding livelihoods.Plus, Tim and JVL discuss the second indictment of Trump and the damning evidence against him. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sarah and JVL talk about the big indictment. What it means for the Republican primary. How the Triangle of Doom is operating. And whether there’s any way out of this thing. The Secret pod is almost always locked for Bulwark+ members but this week we’re making the entire thing available to everyone, because it’s an important moment. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sonny joins JVL and Sarah to talk the ouster of Chris Licht from CNN after a devastating profile by Tim Alberta. Plus, Chris Christie and Mike Pence official enter the 2024 primary, the Saudis take over pro-golf, and Marjorie Taylor Greene is becoming more mainstream, alienating her from the other fringe members of her party.Watch the gang record this episode our official YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXgljzlXOIE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On a special Pride edition of TNL Sunday, Chasten Buttigieg joins Tim to discuss his new book, Josh Hawley's "Manhood," Ted Cruz's Uganda comments, and being a new parent while under the spotlight.Watch Tim interview Chasten here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=426Tjzws4kI Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sarah and JVL go to a perplexing place trying to figure out if the (very valuable) short-term good Kevin McCarthy has done regarding governing outweighs the long-term danger of normalizing white nationalists, insurrectionists, and other assorted crazies. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Republicans and President Joe Biden worked out a debt ceiling deal where Democrats gave major concessions ... and yet Speaker Kevin McCarthy is still being accused of caving to the libs.The gang also debates who's more MAGA: Ron DeSantis or Donald Trump? Plus, Chris Christie appears ready to launch another presidential campaign and Tara Reade moves to Russia.Watch the gang record this episode our official YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzFsrGpTW4E Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Bradley Whitford (The West Wing, Transparent) joins the Sunday show to talk The West Wing, criticisms of the show's idealistic politics, and his own evolution into an advocate for liberal causes and much more!Plus, Tim and JVL breakdown DeSantis' attempts to shake off the "establishment" label after his presidential campaign launch.Watch Tim and JVL interview Bradley here: https://youtu.be/6hbDyqu8qOo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sarah and JVL talk about the DeSantis launch, his January 6 pardon weasel words, and the norming of soft-authoritarianism.To get the full episode—and The Secret Podcast every week—join Bulwark+.Go to: https://thesecretpodcast.thebulwark.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It's all about Ron DeSantis and his upcoming announcement on Twitter Spaces tonight. What does the gang think of the move to launch his campaign with Elon Musk? Plus, a riff on Tim Scott's inconsequential run for president and a rant on Nate Silver's Never Trumper critiques.And tune in tonight on YouTube to watch all your favorite Bulwark personalities react to DeSantis' announcement live! Join here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPz-zmDUiuw Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sarah and JVL are joined by Molly Jong-Fast as part of The Bulwark's live event in NYC! Tune in to hear several "Are we going to fight?" moments while discussing Donald Trump's continuous popularity with Republicans, the cruelty of the latest allegations against Rudy Giuliani, and basically ever current and potential 2024 presidential contender. It's a wild show that you won't want to miss!Subscribe to The Next Level's YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_lAiayRbLUnTfPebOw-44g Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sarah, Tim and JVL went live yesterday during their recording to talk Dem wins in traditionally Republican cities, DeSantis' Iowa trip and his allied PAC walking back criticism of Trump, and the idea that Mike Pence might actually jump into the 2024 race. Plus, the gang takes questions from the audience!The Bulwark is heading to the Big Apple for a night of politics, laughs and maybe even a few tears—with special guest Molly Jong-Fast of the Fast Politics podcast.Come meet the gang from The Next Level and fellow Bulwark+ members in Manhattan on Thursday, May 18.For tickets go to TheBulwark.com/events. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Director, writer and producer David Mandel (Veep, Seinfeld) sits down with Tim to discuss his new HBO miniseries White House Plumbers and his fascination with the behind the scenes of Washington.SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Next week's TNL will be streamed LIVE on YouTube on The Bulwark's main channel. Tune in May 17th at 3 pm EST to watch Tim, Sarah, and JVL record in the same room for the first time in ages! The chat will be open to get ready to ask our hosts your burning questions! Join here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONVoAmys1Lg Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

JVL sits down with Will Saletan to talk about his book on The Corruption of Lindsey Graham. It’s a *much* more free-flowing and philosophical discussion than I’d planned. If you’re game for a journey, you might like it.SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Next week's TNL will be streamed LIVE on YouTube on The Bulwark's main channel. Tune in May 17th at 3 pm EST to watch Tim, Sarah, and JVL record in the same room for the first time in ages! The chat will be open to get ready to ask our hosts your burning questions! Join here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONVoAmys1Lg Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Donald Trump is found guilty of sexually assaulting E Jean Carroll, but no one doubts he's still on a path to the top of the Republican ticket in 2024. The GOP is also sticking by Rep. George Santos after he was indicted by a grand jury on 13 criminal charges. They really know how to pick some good ones! Plus, what do our hosts think of President Joe Biden and Speaker Kevin McCarthy's standoff over the debt limit? And Tucker Carlson announces his return to spewing propaganda on Twitter, while RFK Jr. does surprisingly well in Democratic polls. SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Next week's TNL will be streamed LIVE on YouTube on The Bulwark's main channel. Tune in May 17th at 3 pm EST to watch Tim, Sarah, and JVL record in the same room for the first time in ages! The chat will be open to get ready to ask our hosts your burning questions! Join here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONVoAmys1Lg The Bulwark is heading to the Big Apple for a night of politics, laughs and maybe even a few tears—with special guest Molly Jong-Fast of the Fast Politics podcast. Come meet the gang from The Next Level and fellow Bulwark+ members in Manhattan on Thursday, May 18. For tickets go to TheBulwark.com/events. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Tim sits down with Larry Wilmore to talk his career as a comedian, the Democratic party, race in America, and Vice President Kamala Harris on this week’s Sunday show.Plus, Tim and JVL discuss the killing of a homeless black man in New York City that has, once again, divided the country along party lines.The Bulwark is heading to the Big Apple for a night of politics, laughs and maybe even a few tears—with special guest Molly Jong-Fast of the Fast Politics podcast. Come meet the gang from The Next Level and fellow Bulwark+ members in Manhattan on Thursday, May 18. For tickets go to TheBulwark.com/events. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today Bill Kristol is in for Sarah and he and JVL talk about CNN’s Trump town hall, the latest Ginni Thomas reporting, and the bizarre reaction of Conservatism Inc. to the ongoing Clarence Thomas story.To get the full episode—and The Secret Podcast every week—join Bulwark+.Go to: https://thesecretpodcast.thebulwark.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The OG trio is back this week to talk the latest poll of GOP primary voters. Spoiler alert: fighting “wokeness” matters, helping Ukraine does not. Plus, Ron DeSantis is imploding before our very eyes, while Trump’s campaign is actually running a coherent operation. Is a repeat of 2020 truly inevitable? And in Texas, the tragic murder of a family gets drawn into immigration politics, while Rep. Colin puts his hat in the ring to challenge Cruz for the Senate. Watch the gang record this episode our official YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dgm6vZqPjqA The Bulwark is heading to the Big Apple for a night of politics, laughs and maybe even a few tears—with special guest Molly Jong-Fast of the Fast Politics podcast. Come meet the gang from The Next Level and fellow Bulwark+ members in Manhattan on Thursday, May 18. For tickets go to TheBulwark.com/events. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Rep. Abigail Spanberger, a favorite of Never Trumpers everywhere, joins Tim this week to talk appealing to the middle, the battle of the debt ceiling, her career in the CIA (as much as she's allowed to say), what it's like being a mom while in Congress and much more! Note: This episode was recorded on April 24, 2023. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sarah and JVL talk about Montana Republicans kicking a trans Democrat out of the chamber, the E. Jean Carroll lawsuit, Nikki Haley’s death pool, DeSantis in Israel, Trump and debates. And then we close out with the scourge of participation trophies.To get the full episode—and The Secret Podcast every week—join Bulwark+.Go to: https://thesecretpodcast.thebulwark.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Both Tucker Carlson and Don Lemon have been kicked to the curb by their employers, leaving us political pundits to wonder what their next move means, and what the future holds for Fox and CNN, respectively.Plus, Ron DeSantis keeps sinking in the polls, while the primary field against Trump has almost evaporated. Will DeSantis even run? And is he trying to match Trump’s crazy by making it easier to enforce the death penalty?Amanda Carpenter subs in for Sarah to discuss! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Abraham Josephine Riesman, author of The New York Times bestselling book, Ringmaster, joins Tim and JVL to talk WWE wrestling and the latest attacks on trans Americans from the right. Plus, Tim and JVL talk the $5 million Mike Lindell has the pay for his disproven election fraud claims. Watch the gang record this episode here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0u9_tuy9V4 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sarah and JVL talk about Biden’s coming reelection announcement and DeSantis’s latest polling drop. Also: If Trump becomes the Republican nominee and you could wave a wand and have any person be the Democratic nominee, who would you pick?To get the full episode—and The Secret Podcast every week—join Bulwark+: https://thesecretpodcast.thebulwark.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Fox settled with Dominion Voting Systems for $787.5 million, at the expense of getting Tucker Carlson and Laura Ingraham to testify publicly. Was this the best or worst case scenario? Plus, with his stock in the 2024 presidential horse race sinking, Ron DeSantis picks back up his fight with Disney, threatening to build a jail next to Disney World. Anything beats taking on Trump directly, right? And Democrats are pressuring Sen. Dianne Feinstein to retire as her absence prevent President Biden from confirming judges. Is it time for all these octogenarians to finally give up their seats? Watch the gang record this episode here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftyhv2AIoEk Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Tennessee House Rep. Gloria Johnson joins Tim to talk the insanity that's happened in her state's legislature over the past couple of weeks. She details why she and her Democratic colleagues, Reps. Justin J. Pearson and Justin Jones, decided to take action after another school shooting in Nashville.Along with reacting to the racism her Republican peers and the conservative media have shown in the aftermath, Rep. Johnson also gets into the dangerous legislation proposed by the GOP in her state, which will have serious consequences for abortion access and freedom of expression.Watch Tim and Rep. Johnson record this episode live here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpywzrLd_Z0 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sarah and JVL talk about MAGA’s new attack on the Great Republican Hope. And about the Heritage Foundation’s strange new respect for socialism. And more!Check out all The Secret Podcast episodes here: https://thesecretpodcast.thebulwark.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

UPDATE: Rep. Tim Scott revealed he was no longer a virgin in 2012, according to the Daily Mail.Donald Trump joined Tucker Carlson last night to lavish praise on genocidal Chinese President Xi Jinping, among other authoritarian world leaders. Plus, law and order Texas Gov. Greg Abbott plans to pardon a convicted murderer and Tim Scott launches his presidential campaign, while DeSantis waits in the corner and passes dangerous new immigration laws.Show Notes"The Big Break" by Ben Terris: https://www.twelvebooks.com/titles/ben-terris/the-big-break/9781538708057/Watch the gang record the episode here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2OdxWq_ZdI Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Frank Bruni, veteran opinion writer for The New York Times, joins Tim and JVL on this week's Sunday show to talk Trumps indictment, his esteemed career, which includes covering the President George W. Bush's administration, the future of journalism, modern day challenges to free speech, and much more! Watch the gang record this episode here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XXMZkdu-M0 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sarah and JVL talk about the potential for Vivek Ramaswamy to fill the Ron Paul lane and how that could hurt DeSantis. And also Clarence Thomas and the burden of having close personal friends who just happen to be billionaires.Check out all The Secret Podcast episodes here: https://thesecretpodcast.thebulwark.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Trump's (first) indictment has finally arrived and the GOP is more (publicly) united behind him than ever before. The MAGA base demands loyalty, and even the so-called normies are falling in line.The gang also breaks down Democrats' big win in Wisconsin yesterday and if it's a bad sign for Ron DeSantis. Plus, everyone gives their take on the NCAA women's national championship tournament, as well as how much racism and misogyny was behind the media storm surrounding the Angel Reese.Watch the gang record this episode here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0caff1USZzA Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Pulitzer Prize-winning author Junot Diaz joins the Sunday show to talk his career and the current political climate in America. They also get into his experience with cancel culture, and if it changed his view of the world.Plus, Tim and Sarah give their thoughts what the Trump indictment means for his re-election campaign.Watch the gang record this episode here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2K2dK1BEWqg Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sarah and JVL go deep on the day everyone knew would eventually get here.Check out all The Secret Podcast episodes here: https://thesecretpodcast.thebulwark.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In the wake of the latest mass shooting in Nashville, the gang breaks down where the country stands when it comes to protecting our children from gun violence. They discuss whether the Republican Party has given up attempting to find an alternative solution to gun control, as well as the culture war fallout from the potential gender identity of the shooter.Plus, Donald Trump's insane rally in Waco, Texas shows how insane he is, but also what a force he continues to be. Can Ron DeSantis continue to sidestep a full on confrontation with the Donfather? Chris Christie seems like he maybe be up for that fight, but not all the hosts are convinced he's actually turned a corner. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The spectacular Jane Lynch (Glee, Party Down) joins Tim and Sarah this week, and turns out she's a huge fan of Never Trumpers! They discuss Donald Trump's indictment, Hollywood, cancel culture, and of course, gay stuff. If you've ever wanted to know if Sue Sylvester would support Trump or Ron DeSantis, you won't want to miss this episode!Plus, Tim and Sarah give their updated thoughts on Florida’s escalation of its “Don’t Say Gay Bill.”Watch the gang record this episode here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kc5vWgbWgRQ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sarah and JVL talk about Ron DeSantis’s not-really-a-pivot on Ukraine, what it says about his campaign, and what we’re learning about him as a political commodity.Also: Why do the anti-antis hate the Never Trumpers above all others?Check out all The Secret Podcast episodes here: https://thesecretpodcast.thebulwark.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Donald Trump's indictment seems inevitable, but how long it will take before an arrest actually happens is anyone's guess. Regardless, Ron DeSantis has taken his first slight swing at his would-be rival, but he's just using Marco Rubio's failed 2016 playbook.Watch the gang record this episode here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8Fi-ikGsBw Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Tim and JVL welcome Rep. Colin Allred to the Sunday show to discuss Rep. Jim Jordan’s bogus Weaponization of the Federal Government committee, his potential challenge to Sen. Ted Cruz, and his journey to the Tennessee Titans as an undrafted football player.Plus, how do you pronounce DeSantis? Tim and JVL debate, as even Meatball Ron doesn’t seem to know.Watch the gang record this episode here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQ3DcU3ROds Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Need an extra dose of JVL and Sarah in your week? Take a listen to this clip from today's The Secret Podcast and subscribe to Bulwark+ to hear new episodes every Friday! Check out all The Secret Podcast episodes here: https://thesecretpodcast.thebulwark.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

DeSantis says Ukraine's security is not a priority for the U.S., and (some) GOP politicians are pushing back. How long will it last? And why doesn't Trump get the same criticisms?Plus, Fox News blames Silicon Valley Bank's "wokeness" for it failure, and the TNL hosts have some choice words for them.Watch the gang record this episode live here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcPGCSZa44g Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

A new adventure begins for the TNL gang with our new Sunday show! Catch Tim and either JVL or Sarah interview all sorts of guests every Sunday night!The show welcomes actor Adam Brody (The OC, Fleishman Is in Trouble) to discuss his entry into political discourse, his career in Hollywood, and his new movie "Shazam! Fury of the Gods," in theaters March 17th!Watch the gang record this episode here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zETbAN_KEMk Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Need an extra dose of JVL and Sarah in your week? Take a listen to this clip from today's The Secret Podcast and subscribe to Bulwark+ to hear new episodes every Friday!Check out all The Secret Podcast episodes here: https://thesecretpodcast.thebulwark.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Amanda Carpenter subs in for Sarah to help the boys chastise Tucker Carlson, Kevin McCarthy, Elon Musk and Fox News for their irrespnsible handling of Jan. 6. Plus, a stunning takedown of No Labels potentially spoiling the 2024 election with third party candidates, and a Tim rant on Andrew Sullivan accusing The Bulwark of wanting Trump to beat DeSantis. Watch the gang record this episode here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-snexk8zoU And tune in for TNL's new Sunday night show! Featuring a new guest every week! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Tim shares his experience following Ron DeSantis throughout Florida. Plus, is the crime wave to blame for Lori Lightfoot getting the ax in Chicago? And will Tennessee's drag ban hold up against the First Amendment?Watch the gang record the episode here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCpbVRrVbpw Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Everyone's favorite lunatic Marjorie Taylor Greene thinks the U.S. needs a national divorce. She's an expert on the subject. Plus, Biden's trip to Ukraine on Presidents' Day should be a moment of unity, but MAGA shills like Ron DeSantis are breeding disunity when we most need it.This episode of The Next Level was recording on February 21, 2023. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nikki Haley launches her bid for the presidency and she's the perfect candidate ... for 2015. Are her presidential ambitions pure fantasy? Plus, Elon Musk blows a fuse over Biden's more popular tweet, as Republicans continue losing their minds over Chinese balloons. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sarah, Tim and JVL break down Biden's State of the Union speech. Consensus? The president did what he does best! Watch the gang record each episode of The Next Level on our official YouTube channel! Make sure to like and subscribe! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Larry Hogan walks back comments he'd support Trump if he was the GOP's 2024 nominee, while Chris Sununu doubles down. Plus, Nikki Haley's narrow path to victory and the hurdles facing the police reform debate.This episode of The Next Level was recorded on February 2, 2023. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The gang finish their road trip with a live show in Seattle this weekend with columnist Dan Savage! Here's what went down! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The gang hit the road this week with a live show from the Avalon Hollywood. To listen to the entire show go to The Next Level at https://thenextlevel.thebulwark.com/p/no-bs-live-la#details.Part two of the show features our guest, Jon Favreau, host of the Pod Save America podcast. Listen here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is part two of our Jan. 19 live show from the Avalon Hollywood with special guest Jon Favreau, former Obama speechwriter and host of Pod Save American. To listen to the entire show go to The Next Level at https://thenextlevel.thebulwark.com/p/bonus-live-from-la-pt-2#details Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sonny Bunch joins Tim and JVL to talk Republican fury over suggestions to ban gas stoves. Plus, debates on the trajectory of social media and Ron DeSantis’ new education policy. Join the gang from The Next Level in Hollywood on January 19 and in Seattle on January 21. Learn more here: TheBulwark.com/events Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices