The Brands On Brands Podcast

Today we learn what it means to be a more human brand, make connections with customers one-to-one, and how the marketing rebellion has changed what it takes to be a brand to this next generation of customers. Today our guest is an internationally acclaimed keynote speaker, Mark Schaefer. Mark is an author and strategy consultant for marketing. I have read several of his books, including his most recent one, Marketing Rebellion: The Most Human Company Wins. He is a college educator and has been a leader in this industry for years. I've respected and looked up to Mark for a long time and am excited to share our interview with you today. What is the Marketing Rebellion? Brandon Birkmeyer: [00:02:24] I was hoping you could tell me a little bit more about how you find inspiration, and then how this idea of a marketing rebellion came to be. Mark Schaefer: [00:02:49] You know, I was thinking today. I was out cutting my grass and I was thinking about how all my books sort of fit together. They provide this narrative that has sort of explored my thinking in terms of how marketing is changing. And I have been very fortunate in that it's sort of reflected how the world is changing as well. My first real book was called Return On Influence. That came out in 2012. This was the first book on influence marketing. And back then, nobody was talking about that. It wasn't even a thing. But I recognize this idea that power was shifting from agencies, newspapers, and book publishers to people. That was a very new idea back then. In fact, it was rejected by a lot of people. It was a very controversial idea. This idea that individual people could be counted on as influencers was a radical idea that caused a lot of fury when I was writing about it. We have this opportunity to create our own power to influence. Well, how do you do that? I wrote a book about creating content, about social media, and about blogging. Well then, all of a sudden, we have too much content because everybody's doing it now. So how do we stand out in this crazy world? How do we get our content to move through an audience? That was my book, The Content Code. That works for businesses. Can it work for an individual? Can an individual become known that same way? So, then I wrote Known. The problem that I solve with this new book, Marketing Rebellion, is that with this power shift, the whole world of marketing has now moved over to our customers. It has completed the cycle that I started talking about in 2012. Now, here we are today in 2019, and it is complete. It is not just shifting. It has shifted. And in those seven years since that first book came out, marketers really haven't adapted to this idea. We have built our organizations to do something, but nobody's looking up to say, "Wait a minute, is everything still the same? Are things still working the way we thought they were?" We have had our heads down, trying to do content and social media without really reflecting on reality. That is what the book is about. It is a reality check to see what's happening now. The customers are really in control of the sales funnel, of the customer journey, of the marketing process. It was not an easy book to write because it's such a profound and provocative idea. I was fearful that there could be a backlash on the book, but people have embraced it. They have seen this coming and it makes sense. How Has Marketing Changed Brandon Birkmeyer: [00:06:19] Looking back to when you first got into marketing versus where it is now, how have you seen things change? You've talked about how it's changed for consumers but it's also interesting to see how the marketing professionals and how marketing as a profession has changed and how maybe we are behind. Mark Schaefer: [00:06:58] Or has it changed? That's my biggest concern, really. One of my favorite quotes in the book is from Chris Savage, the CEO of Wistia. He says our culture is our marketing. And that is a big problem today. The culture has not kept up with the pulse of the world. Our company cultures have not kept up with the pulse of popular culture and our consumers. It is a leadership issue. There is no such thing as a grassroots organizational change. That must come from the top. So, my biggest concern is that they have not changed and there is organizational resistance built in. I was blown away by an ad agency that really gets it. A company that I featured in the book, Giant Spoon. They are doing this experiential marketing. Their mantra is we're an advertising agency that aspires to never make an ad. I really think that is poignant. We need to look at young people like the leaders of Giant Spoon to show us a new way. The world is not changing fast enough. More of Mark's Back Story Brandon Birkmeyer: [00:10:45] This idea of customer experience and of a more human approach to marketing has been a theme for you and your content. Where does this passion come from to explore that? And how did you get into marketing. You seem