Sex, Love, and Addiction

In this week’s episode, Dr. Rob welcomes back Candice Christiansen, founder and clinical director for the Namaste Center for Healing. She and Rob discuss some co-occurring diagnosis that is found as an underlying source in addiction and avoidance, and why it’s not unusual for people that have sexual problems to also have an emotional and mental disorder that causes them to act out. They give a few examples of these conditions, define some characteristics of those on the spectrum, and talk about the importance of getting a professional evaluation to make sure one is getting the proper treatment. TAKEAWAYS: [4:46] Sexual addictions and disorders aren’t always based on personality and narcissism. There are also many instances where it is an attachment based disorder. The acting out is a learned behavior to try to escape, self soothe or connect. [5:45] Candice describes how self-stimulating behavior relates to those on the autism spectrum. Part of her job is to help the addict replace porn with a non harmful replacement to self-stim. [9:04] High functioning autism will often be diagnosed when a child is young because there is a clear language deficit or auditory processing issue. [11:15] Those on the spectrum are usually very intelligent, and may not get social/sexual cues. They may also be very honest to a fault, blunt, and get overstimulated by bright lights or loud noises. [15:07] Sociopaths know that their actions may hurt someone else, but they don’t care or possess empathy, while those on the spectrum have “in the moment” thinking, but do show great empathy. [16:19] There are conditions that can look like a learning disability, so it is very important to get a thorough evaluation by an expert. [25:43] A symptom of bipolar disorder is often the tendency to be hypersexual. When a bipolar individual is stable and their disorder is in remission, many times they stop acting out. [26:02] Other diagnoses that Candice sees where people act out include both OCD and OCPD. [27:38] Mental health professionals must have a common language so they know how to best treat a condition and everything that goes along with the condition. [29:01] A diagnosis is not a judgment, it’s an observation so that an issue can be treated properly and professionally. RESOURCES: Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Cruise Control: Understanding Sex Addiction in Gay Men Prodependence: Moving Beyond Codependency [email protected] In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts Autism Speaks Namaste Center for Healing [email protected] @namasteadvice QUOTES: “Human beings are built to connect and to turn to relationships. This is how we thrive.” “When people struggle with the ability to connect, it leaves them empty.” “I love working with people on the spectrum, because they have so many strengths.” “No matter how much trauma work you do, or how many times you write out a recovery plan, it won’t work for you if you have an underlying emotional illness that needs to be addressed.” “We have to figure out why you started, and then heal that wound.” “Diagnosis aren’t meant to judge people, they are meant to have a common understanding of how to help people.”

Kim Buck, LPC and CSAT, joins the show, to share her excitement in the concept of prodependence, and her own experience in integrating it within the treatment of her own clients. Kim has over 15 years of clinical experience as a therapist and works in multiple modalities depending on the clients needs. As the Clinical Director at Family Strategies Counseling Center in Arizona, she runs treatment programs for hundreds of people. She and Rob also talk about the difference between the codependence and prodependence models, and the changes she has seen firsthand in her treatment centers when implementing this model. TAKEAWAYS: [2:31] Kim heard about the concept of prodependence and was an early adopter, using it in her own practice. The concept of codependency helped in her own recovery, however there were concepts in the model that she found shaming and blaming towards the partner experiencing betrayal. Prodependence addressed those issues for her, and she aligned with it due to how it lessens the blame of the betrayed partner. [8:02] Kim started rewriting some of the curriculum for the partners to integrate the prodependency model. She now has three active prodependence groups for partners of sex addicts, and they learn how to take care of themselves and set boundaries in this time of crisis. [11:56] The first goal of Kim’s work is to help them sort through the mess of their partner’s actions, and offer them support and hope. If they need the additional work, it will come organically. However, oftentimes in the early stages of treatment, people just need support and understanding while they are in crisis mode. [17:34] Prodependence invites the addict to look in the mirror and not blame the other partner for their actions. It increases the chance that a betrayed partner will come back and question what they did in the past, creating a mutually agreed upon opening to explore and grow. [22:45] For Kim, she had some fundamental issues with some of the concepts of codependency, and found that prodependency served to depathologize rather than pathologize. It removes the idea that the partner has an illness that is causing the partner to act out, and instead understands that most often they are just trying their hardest to solve a problem dragging their life down the drain. [28:01] The goal of codependency which is self care and detachment is valid and necessary, but trouble comes in when blame is placed on the partner and sees them as part of the problem. RESOURCES: Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Cruise Control: Understanding Sex Addiction in Gay Men Prodependence: Moving Beyond Codependency [email protected] Arizona Board of Behavioral Health Examiners Family Strategies Counseling Center [email protected] QUOTES: “Most people are just trying to help someone they love, and figure out their life.” “If you are married to or involved with an addict, there is nothing in the world you can ever do to make that person drink, use, or act out.” “The partners come in with a lot of trauma. They are trying to manage the crisis and the craziness.” “They are not trying to fight through a label or diagnosis when they walk through our door.” “We don’t make someone wrong, we make them right.” “Find another partner of an addict who doesn’t feel crazy.”

Joe Saavedra, is an MFT and sex addiction treatment provider who is passionate about working with people who have the experiences that come with addictive and compulsive behavior. Joe has a true healer’s heart and spirit, and works in an integrity and empathy based model. Today, he talks about the importance of group work, his own story of addiction and recovery, and why there is true power in relational intimacy with others. TAKEAWAYS: [3:02] Joe does a Men’s Sex Addiction 101 Drop-In Group on Sex and Relationship Healing. The group is successful because it is a great support system, and helps men find healthy connections in a safe and interactive virtual setting. The goal is to build relationships and help people realize they are not alone. [6:44] The goal with Joe’s group work is to get the men into a pattern of activities that stabilize them, and provides a sense of hope. [9:30] Rogerian group therapy is the type of therapy that is non judgemental, accepting and loving. [13:35] The groups are gender separate, because they seek to create a safe space for the addict and keep an open forum. There is also support provided for the betrayed partner. [18:58] Joe has a background in the railroad industry, and during his time working on the railway his own addiction blossomed. He struggled with addiction, and it adversely affected his marriage. He got help and remarried his wife, and continues to take personal inventory of his own actions and stays accountable to others. [26:24] The DIY client thinks they don’t need any help, but in order to truly heal, we need others in our life. RESOURCES: Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Cruise Control: Understanding Sex Addiction in Gay Men Prodependence: Moving Beyond Codependency [email protected] Men’s Sex Addiction 101 Drop-In Discussion Group Emmaus Road [email protected] QUOTES: “It’s the therapist's presence that makes the difference.” “Make sure you are making the right click.” “It’s not just a passion for me, it’s a calling.” “It’s about empowering yourself through others.”

Kristin Snowden is a specialist in helping individuals, couples, and family recover and heal from addiction, depression, anxiety, trauma and relationship challenges such as betrayal and infidelity. She and Rob discuss their time working together at Promises Malibu and Kristin shares what that experience brought her both professionally and personally. She also discusses the importance of education and language in overcoming shame and struggle, why she finds great success in group therapy sessions and more about her bi-monthly webinars on the Sex and Relationship Healing site. TAKEAWAYS: [0:55] Kristin and Rob ran a treatment program for a number of years called Promises Malibu. This experience of opened her eyes to a new approach for those struggling with active addiction and outpatient care. She was strongly impacted by the work and applied what she was learning to her own relationships. [10:30] Narcissistic defense occurs when one has to get an external reflection of what they are doing right because of a feeling of emptiness on the inside. [14:05] Often people don’t seek help until they are in enough discomfort and realize the choices aren’t working for them and they need a different way. [15:33] There’s a lot of vulnerability in healing a relationship and breaking down our defenses. [20:07] Kristin shifted her thinking from acting based on the perceived rewards to really seeing people for who they are, accepting both their flaws and her own, and lessening “black-and-white” type thinking. [23:52] Kristin feels as though when you are connected with your spirituality or a higher power, you look at what’s happening as though someone else is in control, and it’s okay to let go and surrender. [24:45] Kristin explains the power behind running groups and the connection that occurs when her clients share observations and experiences in the safety of a group. [26:18] Kristin feels a strong pull to help those who fly under the radar with their issues. They may be high functioning, and she helps them access a higher sense of awareness and consciousness about their addiction and acting out behavior. [31:18] In owning our vulnerability, it releases us from the anger and self-righteous indignation, and gets right to the pain we need to access for true healing. RESOURCES: Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Cruise Control: Understanding Sex Addiction in Gay Men Prodependence: Moving Beyond Codependency [email protected] Promises Brene Brown Sex and Relationship Healing Kristin Kristin Snowden.com QUOTES: “I’m hooked, and I love this type of work and am grateful every day to do this type of work.” “Why does the human state seem to change in a state discomfort?” “I’m no different than anyone else.” “We have this wound in us where we are all looking to be loved in spite of our flaws.” “When we clear out our shame and our defenses, we have amazing natural instincts.” “I feel a strong pull to help those under the radar.”

Dr. Leon Seltzer joins the show today to speak about his work in intimate relationships, early wounding and healing, and the paradoxical relationship of intimacy and independence. He and Rob also discuss how defensive behavior and betrayal mirrors the world of addiction and the role that a family attachment bond later has on picking relationship partners. Dr. Seltzer describes the qualities he sees in couples able to work their way through great difficulties, and what seems to be missing in those unable to overcome betrayal. TAKEAWAYS: [1:07] Dr. Leon Seltzer has two doctorates, one in English, and the second in Psychology. He is also a prolific blogger for Psychology Today, and has written over 400 articles for the website which have resulted in over 30 million views. [3:24] Those that grew up without a secure attachment bond to their family may have a tougher time trusting their partner. When people aren’t secure within themselves, they are in self protection mode rather than truly able to feel vulnerable. [6:09] A child needs to feel that they can be themselves in their relationship, and yet secure enough to go out on their own and develop self confidence without their parents. [9:49] In order for people to really know us and connect with us on an authentic level, we must pursue an intimate relationship that also includes us being independent. The paradox is that to be completely intimate, we must be able to be independent. [12:03] We want to give the wounded partners time and space to feel angry, hurt, and betrayed, but if they decide to stay in the relationship there is a certain point where the punishing becomes detrimental to moving forward and healing. [15:13] Emotional resourcefulness, empathy without shaming, and ability to express vulnerability are key traits that Dr. Seltzer sees in couples that are able to work through betrayal. The partner acting out must recognize how their behavior has hurt their partner. They also must endure guilt deep enough that they really get how much harm they have done to the other person, so much so that it is unthinkable to do it again. [18:54] If the acting out is due to fear, the partner acting out must learn ways to make them feel less ashamed without going back into the addictive process. [21:08] A large part of betrayed partners healing is recognizing their own behaviors that may be in place to distract or disengage from their own emotions, and to have more compassion for avoidance and defensive behaviors. [25:36] It is common for couples dealing with infidelity to be so focused on the betrayal that they miss opportunities for growth and connection beyond the hurt. You can never get trust back fully right away, rather by degrees in a process that takes time. RESOURCES: Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Cruise Control: Understanding Sex Addiction in Gay Men Prodependence: Moving Beyond Codependency [email protected] Paradoxical Strategies in Psychotherapy Evolution of the Self Psychology Today: Leon Seltzer QUOTES: “All intimate relationships are going to be challenging. To have an intimate relationship, you have to be willing to both trust the other person and make yourself vulnerable.” “We all have the innate drive to influence others. That can’t happen unless people can confide in us, without feeling us sitting in judgement of them.” “It’s synonymous to be authentic in your relationship with others, and to be courageous enough to be vulnerable in your relationship with others.” “To have an intimate relationship with another person, you need to feel independent from them.” “Addiction thrives in isolation.” “We live in a world where we can trust only ourselves, or we can trust others.”

Terry Real offers workshops for couples, individuals, and parents around the country along with professional training of the Relational Life Therapy method for clinicians through his Relational Life Institute. He also is the best-selling author of I Don’t Want To Talk About It, Overcoming the Secret Legacy of Male Depression, and his new book The New Rules of Marriage is out now. Today, he chose the topic of healing betrayal, the added challenges that addiction brings in to the situation, and the roadblocks that must be moved in order for real healing and change, and possibly even a transformed relationship better than it was before. TAKEAWAYS: [2:43] In order for it to count as infidelity, there needs to be two elements: a violation of contract and trust, and deceit. [5:14] The partner usually has two questions: how can you do this, and how can I know you won’t do this again? [5:47] The three phases that generally occur when coming back from infidelity: The Acute Phase - the partner is in a true state of trauma, blind fury, crisis, and shame. Everything they believe to be true has been pulled out from underneath them. The partner that has acted out needs to come clean, step up, and end all of whatever the involvements are. The Understanding Phase - what did the infidelity do to the betrayed partner, and what it meant for the betrayer. This is the phase where we assess the relationship, and look for narcissistic character traits that may have overridden loyalty and trust. Recommitment and Transformation - fix and transform the characters, and look at changing accommodation patterns there may be in the hurt partner and a realistic look at the relationship in all it’s positives and negatives. [11:38] Reassuring behavior will help to regain trust, and the need for it differs couple by couple. [19:42] The harmony phase is the innocent “love without knowledge” phase, the “knowledge without love” phase is the dissolution phase, which then flows into experienced love where you know what is at stake, but it is an informed choice to stay. [26:40] The same type of narcissism that gets the partner to betray in the first place, also keeps them from successfully being accountable and trustworthy to their partner in the healing stage. [29:44] Personal empowerment is based in individual power, and relational empowerment is to bring your full strength into the relationship. RESOURCES: Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Cruise Control: Understanding Sex Addiction in Gay Men Prodependence: Moving Beyond Codependency [email protected] Terry Real The New Rules of Marriage I Don’t Want to Talk About It How Can I Get Through To You The Golden Bowl Beyonce Lemonade Sex and the City QUOTES: “Trauma sweeps away the underlying beliefs that you don’t think about.” “There is a bit of Tiger Wood’s spouse in all of us.” “You have to ask them, why they wouldn’t cheat?” “Wholeness and connection feels better than the lack of wholeness and connection.” “I don’t like the word forgiveness.” “The unfaithful partner needs to get it and really move into empathy and remorse.” “Most couples that I work with do not go back to the same relationship, they go back to a better one.”

Stan Tatkin, PsyD, MFT, joins the show today to talk about creating a long-lasting and secure relationship. He discusses his latest book, We Do, his work at the PACT Institute, and how we can encourage people to take time to have the important discussions before jumping in headfirst to a commitment or marriage. He also discusses the smart way to vet out a potential relationship, monogamy as a choice, the Commandments of a secure functioning relationship and advice for couples dealing with betrayal. TAKEAWAYS: [3:10] Stan Tatkin’s book, We Do is a pre-commitment manual, meant to help people understand the nuts and bolts about intimacy, agreements, and having a purpose and vision for being together. [5:10] Monogamy is a choice, not something provided by nature. While it is nature’s plan to mix up the gene pool about every 4 years, honest and true intimacy is something very possible with the right tools. [6:04] Love that stems from secure functioning is interdependent on the parties surviving and thriving together. It is a mutual agreement to protect each other, agree on being in it together, and a commitment to practice radical loyalty. [8:07] In the early stages of a relationship we may get hooked in by love or even lust, but an attitude and spirit of collaboration and cooperation keeps us together. [10:17] While most premarital counseling focuses on our goals surrounding finance and children, Dr. Tatkin feels it should be more about vision and expectations, to find out if we are really on the same page. [12:19] Yes, it matters if your friends like your significant others. We can use our social networks to vet out our potential partners, and see how well we fit in the community together. When red flags are popping up from our family and friends on our partner, that is something to be taken seriously. [14:48] Women also bond and release oxytocin in not just sex, but eye contact and kissing. [15:48] Dr. Tatkin is interested in keeping partners together because our primary attachment bond has the ability to be the lighting rod to give hope and influence others in society. [17:48] Although the human relationship is complex, we need it to survive. As primates, we are driven by attachment, community, interaction and relationships. Humans need each other to amplify our emotional states. [23:09] Dr. Tatkin shares some of his Commandments for Enduring and Connected Love: We consult with each other first, and are aware that we are the rulers of our ecosystem. Our relationship comes first. We tell each other everything. We take threats off the table. We have each other’s backs, and know exactly how to protect each other’s vulnerabilities. [28:08] Secure functioning doesn’t necessarily mean monogamy, it just means we agree and are up front about the big ticket items. [30:24] Being able to depend on and trust our partners is the most important factor of long lasting and secure functioning relationships. [32:29] Couples dealing with betrayal almost always need a mediator to help. It is never acceptable for someone that has betrayed you to rush your healing, or blame you for any part of their behavior. [35:26] By nature humans are self serving, but when we seek to help not only ourselves but our partner, we can begin long lasting love. [37:02] To stay healthy and happy we must have at least one secure functioning relationship. RESOURCES: Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Cruise Control: Understanding Sex Addiction in Gay Men Prodependence: Moving Beyond Codependency [email protected] Stan Tatkin We Do: Saying Yes to a Relationship of Depth, True Connection, and Enduring Love The Pact Institute Harvard Study QUOTES: “People can save themselves a lot of pain if they just learn the nuts and bolts of being in an intimate relationship.” “People tend to think this is about me, or about you, but this really is about the human condition.” “More people are invested in finding the right person, than looking at the right relationship.” “There’s nothing harder than another person. But we need them.” “It’s about trust and reliability.”

Ross Rosenberg, psychotherapist, international speaker, author, and professional trainer joins the show today to talk with Rob about codependency, narcissism, and sex addiction. Ross explains his model of self-love deficiency disorder and talks about the work that he is doing at his Self Love Recovery Institute and with his Human Magnet Syndrome books. They also discuss what Ross defines as the core of codependency, the dance of SLDD and narcissism, the difference in getting help for women and men, and resources of how someone can begin to move from self-love deficiency to self-love abundance. TAKEAWAYS: [1:25] Ross Rosenberg is a psychotherapist, an international speaker and best selling author. He is a professional trainer who is considered an expert in the field of narcissism, trauma, codependency, and narcissistic abuse. His Human Magnet Syndrome has sold over 70,000 copies. [5:25] Ross explains that codependency is really a problem with self love deficiency that traces back to early childhood trauma, core shame, and the addiction that one has that drives them into unhealthy relationships. The first step is to meet them where they are at, and affirm their experience in a way that resonates. [7:40] Codependency is a symptom that will repeat itself, and Ross helps his clients understand that they are both the victim for what happened to them, along with responsible for their treatment and future. [9:30] The “human magnet syndrome” is an unconscious dynamic that plays out no matter how much we desire to change our choices. Once one acknowledges it and heals to experience self love and hope, the true change of relationships can begin. [12:29] Codependence has never been a diagnosis, and both Rob and Ross are finding strength based ways of healing rather than looking at our deficits and negative parts. [19:23] The rules are changing on how information and help is accessible for people that may typically not have abundant resources. Ross and Rob both give out a wide amount of information for free or low cost on podcasts, webinars and YouTube videos. [19:59] Although Ross sees females as 75% of who gets help as an SLDD, it really is more like 55% women and 45% men. It is exponentially harder and more shameful in our society for a man to admit and seek help for neglect, abuse and gaslighting in his relationship. [24:19] Dependency is a good thing, and it is our nature and part of the human condition to long for connection and partnership. [25:53] SLDD is an addiction, and the pain of being alone connects them to the core shame, that connects them to the pain as a child. They find a person that fits them best, which is most often a pathological narcissist or someone equally unavailable, such as an addict. [26:37] Ross’s 4 Categories of Pathological Narcissists: Borderline Antisocial Personality Disorder Addict RESOURCES: Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Cruise Control: Understanding Sex Addiction in Gay Men Prodependence: Moving Beyond Codependency [email protected] Self-Love Recovery Institute Human Magnet Syndrome Ross Rosenberg YouTube QUOTES: “People must understand the problem for what it really is, not what people have told them it is, or what they have been believing it is.” “It’s not a problem of bad decisions or bad thinking, it’s a problem of self love that is anchored in core shame, a fear of pathological loneliness and a powerful addiction.” “I don’t give people easy solutions, I give them the truth.” “We repeat patterns in which we get to the original template of which our relationships began.” “It’s much harder, and the shame is deeper for a man.” “The person with self love deficit disorder does not know what to do with a healthy person.” “Once the person solves the problem that keeps them from loving themselves, they will finally get what they deserve - someone who can love, respect and care for them.”

This week, Rob returns with the great Tami VerHelst, his sidekick and first point of contact for the important questions that get sent their way. Tami came up with her list of best and newest questions over the recent weeks and generalized them to boil it down to a combination of the original question and common questions they get quite often. TAKEAWAYS: [3:10] Q: How does one figure out sexual preference when acting out with the same sex? A: That is a hard question, and because there are so many levels to it, it usually is a case by case situation. For the man married to a woman and acting out with men occasionally, he might be bisexual and doesn’t want his wife to know, he could be gay, or may have sexual trauma and abuse and acts out all over the place which happens to include men. Whether your husband is having sex with men or women, lying, cheating and living a double life is the major cause of concern. [6:24] Q: What does healthy sexuality look like? A: For a sex addict restarting the dating process, dating is something you do in a bold brightly lit coffee shop for about an hour, then head your separate way. It is important for sex addicts newly dating again to lower their expectations of dating, be clear on your boundaries, and slow down the process and get to know someone at least a month or two before sex. It helps to have someone in the recovery program to go over the date with, and decide if it is beneficial to continue dating. [9:54] Q: How does a recovering addict work their way back to intimate sexuality with their partner? A: Whether it’s an affair, porn or acting out in another way, the addict has been conditioned to a high level of stimulation in order to get aroused. In order to re engage sexually with their partner and achieve stimulation, both parties must have an attitude of willingness and openness. [14:58] Q: What’s the difference between a sex addict and a love addict? A: Sex addicts consistently and persistently seek out body parts and equate it with power and importance in a primitive way. Love addicts don’t objectify body parts, but they fixate on how that person makes them feel and gets caught up in a glorified version of that person. Love addicts either do one of two things when they see their partners’ “real” side: back away, because they want the fantasy instead, or stay in a relationship with the wrong person instead of seeing the reality of the situation and moving on. [18:20] Q: What are the purpose of 12 Step meetings, and why are they useful? How do I pick one? A: For the addicts, peer support is essential for healing. It allows someone to reduce shame, find a community and bond with like minded individuals that have been through similar issues. It removes the “terminal uniqueness” and the feeling of being the “worst”. [22:54] Q: How do I set boundaries? A: We set boundaries before a situation occurs, and they should be something each partner draws up to help themselves feel safer and more secure. [30:36] Q: What is edging? A: Edging is masturbation for short or long periods of time, where you don’t allow yourself to orgasm. One would do that to make the experience last longer. RESOURCES Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Cruise Control: Understanding Sex Addiction in Gay Men Prodependence: Moving Beyond Codependency Shame Out of the Doghouse: A Step-By-Step Relationship-Saving Guide for Men Caught Cheating

This week, Rob is joined this week by his compadre and sidekick, Tami VerHelst. They discuss a topic and challenge that comes up so often that it inspired Rob’s book, Out of the Doghouse: A Step-By-Step Relationship-Saving Guide for Men Caught Cheating. Rob shares how he wrote a book to help men, but knew that the women in their lives would purchase (and possibly throw at them). Rob and Tami also discuss cheating in the digital age, what men typically do that makes the situation worse, and some steps that will actually heal relationships. TAKEAWAYS: [3:58] Men tend to be problem solvers, and jump in and offer solutions right off the bat. What struck Rob is that the problem of infidelity and betrayal is one they aren’t so good at, and tend to solve it with gifts, and get impatient when that doesn’t work. [5:50] The title from Out of the Doghouse came from the concept of a video where a woman gets an unwanted vacuum as a gift, and banishes her husband to the doghouse. There, he meets other men guilty of similarly heinous crimes, and they conspire on how to get a reprieve and return back to normal life. [6:32] Women buy 95% of all self help books. [7:49] Rob redefines infidelity in the digital age as the keeping of profound secrets in relationships. What tends to break people’s hearts is not that their partner had sex with someone else, but that they were lied to, deceived, or that details were omitted. [12:01] Men are more able to compartmentalize, and women tend to be more holistic thinkers. They may see a one night stand or even an affair as something that has nothing to do with their primary relationship, whereas their partner will be devastated and hurt. [14:03] Tami gets many emails and messages of women catching their partner with another male. It doesn’t matter who or what gender the betrayal is with, infidelity still hurts and can destroy their relationship. [16:11] The worst thing a man can do is blame their woman or partner for their cheating or need to step out of the relationship. The man must take responsibility for their actions, and the outcome of their decision. [17:50] Other things men do after a betrayal that don’t work: asking for forgiveness shortly after while the pain is still raw, giving gifts and financial demonstrations of love, continuing to cheat, blaming their partner for their anger. [21:12] A few steps from Out of the Doghouse that are proven steps towards repairing a relationship: men must have empathy for their betrayed partner, and display an understanding that they have caused the pain. Men should actively disclose the general details to their partner, but make sure it is in a professionally supportive environment. [26:05] It is important for men to be sure they want to stay in their relationship, and are sincere about staying before they jump into all of the healing work. RESOURCES Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Cruise Control: Understanding Sex Addiction in Gay Men Prodependence: Moving Beyond Codependency [email protected] Out of the Doghouse: A Step-By-Step Relationship-Saving Guide for Men Caught Cheating Beware of the Doghouse Out of the Doghouse for Christian Men QUOTES: “Men just don’t seem to be particularly good at healing a betrayal wound with a spouse.” “It’s important to understand that it’s what is agreed upon in the relationship, and that it is the deceit that undermines the relationship.” - Tami “Cheating is the keeping of profound secrets in an intimate relationship.” “The most devastating thing you can do to your partner is blame them for your cheating.” “If you’ve been caught cheating, put everything on the table.”

Dr. Christine Courtois is a leader and trailblazer in the world of trauma and sexual addiction. Over the past 30 years, she has developed treatment approaches for complex posttraumatic and dissociative conditions that have been ahead of its time and is one of the first trauma professionals to create the field of modern trauma therapy. Today, she talks about both the similarities, the differences and the disconnect between the trauma and the addiction world, and ways she sees that shifting to bring more education and understanding between the two. She and Rob also discuss emerging research in the field, why looking at the past can help us move forward in the future, and what support and information are out there for childhood abuse and how it may affect adult life. TAKEAWAYS: [2:52] The first step of trauma treatment is safety, which is the first step of sexual addiction treatment as well. [3:41] Christine feels we are making progress in helping addiction professionals understand trauma history, and trauma professionals see how big a role addictions play in child abuse and complex trauma. There is still a long way to go, however, before we fully see addiction co-addressed with the trauma from the start of treatment. [5:40] Addiction itself is traumatic, especially to a dependent child. [7:24] The money paid by the government for mental health goes to a completely different silo than for addiction treatment, even though professionals understand the two are often intertwined. [9:42] The training for trauma professionals to assess addiction was not at the forefront over the past years, and Christine makes one of her biggest priorities to expand knowledge about trauma in areas that need more awareness. [12:05] Working with a complex trauma is much like doing addiction treatment. [15:40] In 12 Step programs, the term 13th Stepping refers to when one is sober and they decide to start dating or sleeping with partners to feel better rather than focus on their healing. [17:51] In someone with both a trauma or addiction, often there are many betrayals that have occurred interpersonally. [19:50] It’s not about blaming bad parents or situations, it’s about uncovering the influence certain things had upon a person. While we can’t change the fact these events happened, they can serve as a vehicle to understand more of what’s going on today so that they can take accountability in moving forward with their lives. [27:34] Often in treatment, one is able to come to terms with who their parents really were and accept that it’s up to them to learn it as an adult and take responsibility for their own healing. It is also beneficial to look at the attachment style of their parents, and what they got in their own childhood as a model to pass down to their own offspring. [34:03] Christine’s advice to those in the field would be to make sure there is education, self-knowledge, and support systems set in place. RESOURCES Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Cruise Control: Understanding Sex Addiction in Gay Men Prodependence: Moving Beyond Codependency Dr. Christine Courtois ACES.ORG It’s Not You, It’s What Happened To You: Complex Trauma and Treatment by Christine Courtois ISTSS ISST-D

Dr. Pat Love is known for warmth, humor, and her practical and research based wisdom. Her work has taken her around the world to help people understand and improve their relationships through just about every platform including magazines, TV, blogs, and workshops. Today, she talks about the inspiration she gains by new research and information in the field, how she brings couples together when there have been many years of distance and the formula for desire and true passion. She also gives a formula for passion and intimacy, the strongest predictors of longevity in relationships and the three key elements that make up real life trust. TAKEAWAYS: [1:28] Dr. Pat Love has numerous amount of blog posts, You Tube clips, trainings and workshops that have made her a renowned relationship consultant. She is also a distinguished professor, licensed marriage and family therapist, and long-standing clinical member and approved supervisor in American Association for Marriage and Family Therapy. [4:26] More research is coming out everyday to support the evidence that being there for each other during not only the fun times, but the tough ones as well is one of the main keys to a healthy and fulfilling relationship. [5:42] Many of Rob’s clients struggle and wonder how they will be sexual with their partner after there has been a betrayal. [7:11] One of Dr. Love’s motivations for writing her book Hot Monogamy was to dig in and process how to feel intimacy again when there has been a betrayal. [9:21] There are two pathways to desire, there are autogenic and psychogenic. We often stereotype all women to be “brains” and men to be “body” in term of desire, but it is more like a continuum. [11:58] The formula Dr. Love came up with in Hot Monogamy is P(passion)=S2i (two sexual beings joined by sexual intimacy). [14:21] One of the strongest predictors of longevity is emotional regulation, the ability to calm, soothe and cheer yourself no matter what is happening. [16:16] The three steps to build trust: Say what you are going to do; Do it; Repeat steps 1 and 2. [18:09] Infatuation lowers our defenses, and the desire and brain chemistry cocktail leads us to focus only on the positive instead of processing negatives. [19:55] The all too common phase of “I love you, but I’m not in love with you” isn’t always something to break up over. Often times, it presents a critical moment where the infatuation has passed and you are at the threshold of true love. [23:56] Dr. Love adapts her model and teachings based on the current research and information, and Hot Monogamy will be updated to reflect the digital age. [28:47] Dr. Love shares her experience of getting her hormones checked and taking testosterone for a couple months. She saw that all the sexual cues that related to her desire were screaming at her under the influence of 1 cc of testosterone. [32:34] The discussion of “chore play” is important for taking the time to relax, and block out some time to create desire. RESOURCES Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Cruise Control: Understanding Sex Addiction in Gay Men Prodependence: Moving Beyond Codependency Dr. Pat Love Hot Monogamy: Essential Steps to More Passionate, Intimate Lovemaking by Dr. Patricia Love @Pat Love facebook @DrPatLove twitter [email protected] QUOTES: “The good thing about what we do is the research keeps going out.” - P “You will never have passion without intimacy” - P “There’s a limit on how many chandeliers you will hang from, but there is no limit to intimacy.” “Vintage love, tried and true love, makes infatuation pale by comparison.” “I’m halfway between genius and stupid.” “If I even think about patting my husbands butt, I do it.” “Sex takes some work if you want a healthy sex life. You have to be proactive.”

Gabe Deem is a strong voice when it comes to the issue of porn addiction, and his passion and drive helps offer encouragement, advice and support to both men and women during the recovery process. Today, Gabe shares his work and drive behind Reboot Nation, a free online community with over 11,000 members that helps addicts and their partners overcome problems related to porn use. He and Rob also talk about the ways that he educates himself to stay current on the subject, his own story of porn use and the dysfunction it led to, and interest in the neurochemical processes behind addiction. TAKEAWAYS: [1:32] Gabe became dependent on porn and developed porn-induced erectile dysfunction (PIED) at the age of 23. [2:42] Early on in Gabe’s recovery, he wanted to go straight to the source and educate himself on porn addiction. He thought there was no better way than to go to those leading the discussions, hence why he attends conferences to get in the conversation in order to share awareness and help future generations. [3:46] When it’s articulated in a simple way, young men and women can see just how large an effect a stimulus like porn can have upon our sexuality. [5:07] Reboot Nation does have a separate section for women, and Gabe seeks to provide a safe space for women to meet their needs. [7:23] Gabe considers himself recovered, rather than an addict. [9:44] In his work, Gabe finds that most men that developed youthful sexual dysfunctions were exposed to porn at a very early age. He was looking at porn since age 8, and that was a crucial factor in his conditioned response to arousal. [12:09] What really started to change things for Gabe was when he dove into the neuroscience behind porn addiction and sexual conditioning. [14:12] Rob’s “cheesecake theory” explains that if you eat cheesecake everyday and come to expect it, your brain is going to wire itself to really not want broccoli, plain toast, or anything but cheesecake. [15:58] Gabe considers himself pro-education, not anti porn. He considers his message empowering, and gives people hope with the message that it is possible to regain their sexuality and steer themselves towards a healthy sex life. [22:41] Gabe and Rob seek to bring the two different populations of porn addicts and sex addicts together, and realize that although they require different treatment, one can help the other. [24:05] Although Gabe didn’t feel personal shame for watching porn, his chronic use through adolescence led to opportunity addiction, where he rewired his brain to a point that led to sexual dysfunction. [26:19] VR is going to bring a whole new experience into the world of porn and addiction. [26:38] Gabe shares his own personal story on his experience with porn dependency and dysfunction. [28:32] The porn induced ED test is an important gauge to gain clarity on where the dysfunction is rooted in. [30:48] Gabe encourages everyone to seek professional help if they think they need it, or if they are having trouble going through the Reboot. [34:13] Reboot Nation has a section for partners of porn addicts as well, and hopefully coming soon a section for professionals to learn more. RESOURCES Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Cruise Control: Understanding Sex Addiction in Gay Men Prodependence: Moving Beyond Codependency Reboot Nation @GabeDeem @Reboot_Nation Addicted to Internet Porn with Noah Church AASECT Your Brain On Porn Sexual Compulsives Anonymous Paula Hall Reboot Nation YouTube QUOTES: “I think people are responding to the practical information that we didn’t have growing up.” “When you bring people together that have a common problem, they are really motivated to support each other.” “The knowledge of the potential of rewiring your reward circuit at a young age is something I think everyone should know of.” “I found out that my pursuit of internet porn actually ended up taking the one thing I thought it would give me - sexual pleasure.” “The common misconception is that a porn addict is a 40 year old virgin in their mother’s basement. I was completely the opposite.”

Noah Church is an expert, recovery coach, speaker and author of Wack: Addicted to Internet Porn, and evolution of the porn addiction treatment world. Today, he talks about the difference between addiction and dysfunction, his own personal experience and struggle with porn addiction, the ways porn and sex addiction differ, and what he is doing to make a difference. TAKEAWAYS: [2:12] Noah himself began using porn at age 9. At 24, he realized how much of a negative impact his porn use had on the rest of his life, and knew he had to seek help and change things around. [3:41] In both porn and sex addiction, there is a stigma to fight, and people that need support. In sex addiction, Rob has seen a deep early trauma, and a pervasive intimacy disorder that affects their dating life and general ability to function in any sort of healthy relationship. [5:51] Noah has the perspective of someone that both has gone through porn addiction, and someone that helps others recover in their own struggles. [9:25] When Noah was 18 and in his first long term relationship, he experienced difficulty with sexual intimacy and what he would later learn to be was porn induced erectile dysfunction. The pattern repeated up until Noah had graduated from college, and he confronted the issue and recognized it was something he needed to leave behind. [16:53] It was when Noah watched Gary Wilson’s TEDx talk on “The great porn experiment” that he began an understanding of recovery and a light at the end of the tunnel. He began sharing his experience online, and even shared his experiences with his romantic partner. [21:54] If you were exposed to porn in an excessive way before puberty, it’s going to cause damage. Fetishes typically develop around ages 9-11. [25:25] Noah sees a blurry middle between a sex addict and a porn addict. Some of his clients have a primary porn addiction which has escalated into engaging in destructive sexual behavior, and some have never had sex. [28:12] Virtual Reality porn will present a whole new host of issues and challenges in both porn and sex addiction. While VR may be more addictive than the state of porn now, we will have to wait and see how it affects real life intimacy. [32:37] Only 20 states in the nation offer sex education, and of those 20 states, 12 require parental permission. RESOURCES Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Cruise Control: Understanding Sex Addiction in Gay Men Prodependence: Moving Beyond Codependency Wack: Addicted to Internet Porn by Noah B.E. Church The great porn experiment | Gary Wilson | TEDxGlasgow Your Brain Rebalanced Addicted to Internet Porn QUOTES: “Over time, curiosity became compulsion, and it began to replace my drive to actually connect with the people in my life.” “I didn’t have any trauma that led me to pornography, but the pornography led me to trauma.” “It’s not about what you are looking at or how often, it’s about how it’s affecting your life as a whole.” “Addiction thrives in isolation and secrecy. It feels good to break down those walls.”

Kelly McDaniel is an expert on women and addiction. Her deep empathy in the field helps women find, develop and be okay with themselves despite the trauma that may have occurred in early attachment. Today, she speaks about her upcoming book “Mother Hunger”, the lasting patterns that emerge due to early trauma, and how Mother Hunger treatment is different that typical sex and love addiction treatment. TAKEAWAYS: [1:04] Kelly McDaniel, LPC, NCC, CST, maintains a private practice in Nashville, where she specializes in the treatment of adults and couples. In addition, she is an EMDR trained therapist and member in the Society for the Advancement of Sexual Health (SASH), and holds an education of an MA from Georgetown University and St. Mary’s University. [1:39] In 2008, Kelly’s first book “Ready to Heal” came out, written for women healing from addictive love and sex. The book kicked off that women needed gender-specific information in a culture that objectifies female bodies and women’s wisdom. [2:38] In 2012, the second edition was expanded to include a chapter on McDaniel’s original term “Mother Hunger​.” Mother Hunger​ is a concept that has assisted both clinicians and clients to identify the origin of addictive relationships and foster the healing process. Currently, Kelly is offering two, three-day therapeutic Intensives for women who are exploring their relational patterns in depth. [5:31] Kelly finds her work resonates with both clinicians and the women that seek help. [7:02] Kelly defines “Mother Hunger” as a form of pre-verbal trauma that occurs in early attachment (5 weeks into conception in utero to age 3) that affects a woman’s belief system, physiology, psychology and relationship capacity. [8:37] A neglected child that is left hungry for connection, touch or love will turn to dissociation, or a freeze state, in order to protect and comfort themselves. [13:32] Our most basic idea of what a good partner would be is deeply affected when we are neglected or abused. When Kelly works with women in betrayal, it is a replay of the original wound and a map of where to go to heal. [17:22] The first ways we take in the world are through our mother’s love and some form of feeding and nourishment. These traumas are related to our most primitive stages of love, and continue to play romantically with both our current day lovers and support system or lack thereof. [20:46] Crisis is when your emotions and intellect is out of balance, and you are so invested emotionally in a situation that you are not thinking clearly. When those who have Mother Hunger get into a relationship, they get weighed down by the emotional need that comes up with the possibility of finally being loved. [21:37] Mother Hunger treatment is very different than standard sex and love addiction treatment. It is more related to the treatment in EMDR and somatic training, and sitting inside the grief for a longer intensive amount of time. [24:04] Women with Mother Hunger haven’t yet built a sense of identity, community or trust within themselves and others. [27:25] We profoundly underestimate postpartum depression and how that affect the ability to give love and nurturing. [29:39] The trauma forms before language, and is wired in to the body as the norm for what the world feels like. [31:30] Women with Mother Hunger transfer their attachment needs to men early on. RESOURCES Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Cruise Control: Understanding Sex Addiction in Gay Men Prodependence: Moving Beyond Codependency Kelly McDaniel Ready to Heal: Breaking Free of Addictive Relationships Mother Hunger Partner Hope Dr. Kenneth Adams Christine Courtois QUOTES: “There is a huge gap between I am safe and I feel safe that goes into adulthood.” “If your responsiveness from your most important caregiver is impaired from the start, then you don’t even have a sense of what normal or healthy is, because you have never experienced it.” “Our first love is our mother.” “Women gain strength from each other. One of the ways healthy women even tolerate men are with the help of other women.”

Since Paula Hall’s work in the field began over 15 years ago, she has seen many shifts in the way we treat and educate surrounding sexual addiction and sexual impulsivity. She is now a leader, and between her own work at The Laurel Centre, her 9 published books and her team of 20 people in growing locations, she is a voice for change and empathy for both men and women struggling with addiction. She talks today about the difference in approach that the UK has towards addiction, gives a sneak peek into her upcoming book Sex Addiction: A Guide for Couples, and what she sees for the future of giving individuals and couples hope and direction. TAKEAWAYS: [2:09] At a time when she was working in private practice, Paula attended a sex therapy conference and saw there were just a handful of speakers on the subject. Once she saw it was being recognized as an addiction with pragmatic relapse strategies and recovery work, it made sense to apply this model. Since she was familiar in working with the model of drug addiction, she decided to further her training in sexual addiction. [4:08] It took Paula four years to get her first book published, as every publisher she went to said there was no market in sex addiction. [7:55] The US and UK come from different directions in the field of sexual addiction. Awareness of sexual compulsivity and addiction came in America through the lens of addiction. In England, the concept came out of sexology, where sex in all of it’s non offensive forms are considered healthy and normative. In the UK, the 12 Steps are used in chemical addiction treatment, but not heavily for sexual addiction treatment and recovery. [10:56] To Rob, the word “addiction” means access to a lifelong resource of free support, examples of recovery and shame reduction. If we de-stigmatize addiction and the connotations that the 12 Steps must be done in accordance with religion, that may help the negative associations that go along with the treatment. [14:15] In Europe they are more liberal in certain ways, but when you have more choice it brings more responsibility. The challenge Paula sees is one of seeing moderation as prudish and limiting. [16:38] Writing Sex Addiction: The Guide for Couples was the hardest book Paula has ever written, primarily because working with couples is a multi layered and complex experience. There are two people with different perspectives and fractured agenda on the past, present and future. Paula reminds us there are some things you can not compromise on - two examples are values and children. [22:04] Paula uses the metaphor of a ship that has been hit by a tidal wave to describe what happens to couples when there is a betrayal or sex addiction All crew members must scramble to safety, and drag the relationship back to the harbor to assess the damage without creating any more damage. Then, it is hard work and dedication to get every aspect of intimacy back, building it up from the ground floor. RESOURCES Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Cruise Control: Understanding Sex Addiction in Gay Men Prodependence: Moving Beyond Codependency Understanding and Treating Sex Addiction: A comprehensive guide for people who struggle with sex addiction and those who want to help them by Paula Hall Sex Addiction and the Partners Perspective A Comprehensive Guide to Understanding and Surviving Sex Addiction For Partners and Those Who Want to Help Them by Paula Hall We Need to Talk About Sex Addiction - TEDx The Laurel Center QUOTES: “Conservatism and moral issues in American culture make it so much easier to pathologize or call things sex addiction that aren’t”. - R “In the UK we aren’t pathologizing sexual diversity, because most of us are trained in it.” “Couples work has been the hardest work I have ever done. There is nothing like the couple with sex addiction.” “If you do really good work as a therapist, you are no longer needed.” “Quite literally, often times one partner finds a freedom at a the cost of their partner.”

Carol Juergensen Sheets, aka “Carol the Coach”, has a passion for understanding trauma, disconnection and isolation, and using her gifts to help both sex addicts and betrayed partners through their darkest moments and into the light of healing. She also loves to use media and broadcasting to spread her message to millions, in a judgment and blame freeway. Today, she talks with Rob about her work in partner focused treatment, her radio show on Blog Talk Radio that receives more than half a million listeners weekly, the concept of blame, guilt and remorse in addiction and the shift she has seen in the field over the past decade. Carol has a deep enthusiasm for her work, and it is apparent in her work as a therapist, coach, media personality or caring member of the community. TAKEAWAYS: [3:32] Carol has an affinity for disseminating information to the public on a wide scale. Her podcast is one of the oldest, and now has half a million downloads per week. She helps people globally, interviews leading experts and helps colleagues and clinicians gather cutting edge education to bring back in their work. [7:26] Carol compiled a book in sex addiction, Sexual Addiction: Wisdom from the Masters, that she donated to the American Federation of Research. This body of work served to share the wisdom on a wide range of topics on addiction, compulsion and partner betrayal. 8:16] When Dr. Patrick Carnes appeared on Carol’s radio show, he brought up the notion that suffering and trauma of addiction and betrayal can actually be a precursor for growth, healing and connection. [9:46] If a partner is acting out and is in a deep and enduring relationship, there is a higher chance they will feel remorse than an individual that is unable to connect. Relationships provide a depth of learning, and isolation continues the process of sexual addiction. [10:45] It it often helpful for partners to hear that the compulsions and of their sex addict partner started earlier than their relationship. This may help take a large burden of remorse off their backs, and realize they did not cause the behavior and it was present long before their coupling. [12:18] Carol shares how she noticed a shift in the field around 2007 in how the partners were acknowledged in their deep pain, and not blamed from a model of codependence and causation. She began in to invite them in to her sessions, and realized they needed their own specialized help. She got involved with APSATS, The Association of Partners of Sex Addicts Trauma Specialists, and within a year was training her own colleagues. Partner betrayal is still seen as a deficit area, and Carol supports crisis management both separately AND together between the partner and the addict. [17:01] Conflict breeds intimacy when partners are able to work through their grief and restore and develop a foundation of safety and stabilization. Once there is full disclosure in the early couples recovery work, couples can begin to work on empathy. The addict must acknowledge the issues, validate the partner’s feelings and reassure the partner that he or she can begin to feel safe. Partners also must work through their shame, or the blame from others around them from staying with a sex addict. [21:55] Carol speaks upon an older model that looked at partners with the same need for confrontation as their sex addict partners, even adding the label of codependence. Now, we realize that this is a person in crisis reacting to the betrayal trauma, and they need support rather than blame. [29:27] Remorse is a natural part of grief, and it is common for the spouse to already blame themselves on some level for their partner’s betrayal. Carol works with her clients on building up their sense of worth and belief that they are deserving of honesty, truth and love. RESOURCES Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Cruise Control: Understanding Sex Addiction in Gay Men Prodependence: Moving Beyond Codependency APSATS American Federation of Medical Research Your Sexually Addicted Spouse: How Partners Can Cope and Heal Sex Addiction: Wisdom from the Masters Esther Perel Carol the Coach [email protected] Sex Help with Carol the Coach Sex Help with Carol the Coach - You Tube Blog Talk Radio - Sex Help with Carol the Coach Betrayal Recovery Radio QUOTES: “With sexual addiction and partner trauma, we aren’t going to get as far as we need to go unless we have the research to substantiate what we know to be true.” “Suffering can be the precursor for post traumatic growth.” “Isolation is at the root of sexual addiction.” “The addict carries the shame, but the partner carries the pain.” - Esther Perel In any coupleship, there are issues that both people contribute towards or contaminate. Sexual addiction is not one of them.” “Connection is the antidote to suffering.”

Dr. Harville Hendrix is an international expert in the field of human intimacy and human relationships, and is dedicated to teaching individuals what love is in both feeling and action. Today, he talks about the crucial steps in a relationship before love can even enter the picture, and the interesting way our unconscious minds match us with our partners. He and his wife Helen authored the best-seller Getting the Love You Want, and draw from over 40 years of working with couples to get to the root of how we can be curious instead of judgemental and find ourselves through our relationships. Lastly, they talk about Imago, their work in education and their work helping couples understand each other even in the most painful of circumstances. TAKEAWAYS: [2:54] Even before love happens in a relationship, there must be a differentiation process where we become aware that our partner is not a figment of our imagination here on this earth to love us in exactly the manners we think are best. Until that process occurs, real love cannot yet be born. [5:07] The highest divorce rate is year 7. [5:54] During courtship and early stages of marriage, partners have a tendency to conform to the “perfect person” for their partner. [6:52] Polar energy is needed for interest, and if we end up marrying the exact same type of person as us, that will lead to a couple feeling disinterested, not challenged and eventually disengaged. [8:52] We tend to unconsciously seek out our partners for the same needs we are looking to find in our caretakers. Caretakers may be neglectful or intrusive, and this absence occurs both in single family homes and intact homes. [10:10] It’s typically about 2 years in to a relationship when we see real differences start to come out, the fantasy is unmasked and the partner is left triggered, confused, and anxious. This need for the symbiotic relationship to be back may often lead to compensatory behaviors. [13:01] If we become curious instead of reactive, that will lead us to really understand our partner, and see both them and ourselves clearly. [16:31] It is a huge loss when couples see the illusion, and walk away from an opportunity. [18:31] 20 out of 50 states have mandatory sexual education in schools, and of the 20 states, 12 require parental consent. [20:17] Dr. Hendrix recounts a story about a couple he met that was from an arranged marriage, and he found they had similar expectations and challenges than a couple that met organically. [24:41] Context is just as important as the self, and what gives birth to the individual. [26:39] Imago Relationship Therapy has been in the culture for 30 years, and is a three step dialog process to help people connect, talk and listen. [32:40] Talking can be the the most dangerous thing people do. Dr. Hendrix is concerned with strengthening the health, safety and dialogue of a couple when he is working with them. [35:06] Learning better relationship and conversational skills is something that can benefit people both in personal and professional relationships. RESOURCES Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Cruise Control: Understanding Sex Addiction in Gay Men Getting the Love You Want Harville & Helen Five Stages of Grief Safe Conversations Leadership Training Imago Imago Training Relationships First QUOTES: “Love has to be love of the real, rather than love of the fantasy.” “There is a collusion to become symbiotic with each other.” “Instead of judgement and criticism, we can shift to curiosity.” “When the energy dies and the love dies, now is the time for growth to begin.” “If you do not feel safe with your partner, you can not connect with your partner.”

Staci Sprout, author of Naked in Public, therapist and speaker joins the show today to share her experience of over 24 years working with couples, individuals and groups on sex and love addiction. She discusses her current project, where she dedicates her time and expertise to train therapists on how to better work with females, and how to broach different perspectives and reasons for acting out. She and Rob also talk about cultural issues in dating, women using porn and ways people can find connection and love in a healthy and productive manner. TAKEAWAYS: [2:40] Staci is a gender variant woman and doesn’t fit the typical bell curve profile of a female in recovery. There are certain qualities that have been typically more masculine in a traditional sense, such as identifying herself as an addict in her book Naked in Public. [4:41] Many women hate the term sex addict, and struggle with shame and oppression in society over their sexual identity in the first place. Others will identify with it almost as a badge of honor, which is more rare yet found in the younger generation. [6:31] The majority of female sex addicts tend to act in ways that are more in pursuit of unavailable partnerships, staying in abusive relationships, or other relationship and emotionally driven situations. [7:17] Staci wrote Naked in Public from the perspective of a female addict that we typically see in men. This includes behavior and a mindset leading to casual and unattached sex, typically with many partners. [12:17] The longing for love and connection is so powerful, and we can still be drawn into implicit longing and cravings if these needs are not met. A large part of Staci’s recovery is being able to do what she does consciously, and observe impulses and cravings without judgement or shame. [16:03] A woman that doesn't know how to date the right man isn’t broken, and shouldn’t give up on love. [17:23] One of the signs of mental dis-ease is when your emotions and intellect are out of balance, and you lose the ability to make a good intellectual choice. Having a supportive community that you can share with, is a human and healthy need. [21:44] Our culture is still waking up to the power of attachment, and open to learning new ways of picking partners and finding intimate and meaningful connections. [25:44] As exposure to porn is getting younger, Staci cites a study where at least 1 in 3 women watch porn every week, and 1 in 10 every day. In an ever evolving technological world, therapists must find a way to factor in online addiction with the human needs in love and sex. [29:02] Rob and Staci discuss what dating is, and what it is not. Hands off, lights on! Enjoying coffee for an hour or two then parting ways is healthy, and part of the forgotten fun of courtship is taking your time to get to know someone. [32:29] Distress tolerance is good for reclaiming the innocence of dating and vulnerability. Often times people move too quickly or give up on love entirely because of a past bad experience, having no clue how to date in the first place, or having no support to bounce ideas and fears off of. RESOURCES Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Cruise Control: Understanding Sex Addiction in Gay Men Naked in Public Staci Sprout Sex and Relationship Healing Live Webinar Staci’s Support Group Marie Claire - How Porn Affects Women’s Lives QUOTES: “We need to look at our language, and find a language that will help women feel seen, mirrored and valued.” “There’s just not enough female informed approaches, and then women I work with are always educating me.” “We can teach you how to love better, and find communities where you can get the love that you need without having the abuse accompany it.” “Sugar and sex are two of the things that kids have to reach to.” “Not all of us are the best picker. Sometimes we need help picking.” “One of the most important things is who someone lets close to them, both emotionally and physically.”

Today on the podcast, Rob and his partner in crime (and healing), Tami explore a new model to treat the betrayed and hurting partners of sexual addicts - Prodependence. Rob has been immersed in the last few years in looking for a new model that moves beyond codependency, and helps to validate and support the partners of addicts, rather than pathologizing and blaming them. His new book, Prodependence: Moving Beyond Codependency, explains this model and the framework of attachment vs. trauma therapy and changes the lens from confrontational to invitational. He and Tami answer questions about the formation of codependency in the 1980’s and how it evolved, the issues with the codependency model, explanation of the “crazy” state of an upset partner, and how Prodependence encourages loving in a manner exhibiting boundaries and self care. TAKEAWAYS: [1:29] Rob’s book, Prodependence: Moving Beyond Codependency, will be out in September. Rob has been very invested in this topic over his many years as a therapist, including his PhD dissertation on codependency. [2:06] Q: Why did Rob write Prodependence? A: For the first ten years that Rob was in practice from 1991 - 2001, partners of sex addicts were treated using codependency, the same model that was used for alcohol and drug addiction. This speaks to not just what is going on with the addict, but assumes that a partner’s distress and anger has to do with their own early life experiences instead of the trauma they feel from the addict’s behavior. Codependency says that we are working out and repeating patterns from unresolved relationships. [3:45] There is an assumption, in the models we have been working with, that the partner is somehow in part responsible for maintaining addiction. [5:21] Prodependence states that every action a partner or loved one takes - enabling, rescuing, even nagging, is acting out of love. It is the nature of relationships where we are attached, and looking out for our primary bond. When our primary bond is threatened, what seems like “crazy” behavior is really just the partner trying to step up and save their family. [6:21] Codependency came out in the 1980’s, and became a big pop culture issue during the rise of feminism. It emphasized that partners look at themselves and take accountability, while prodepenence recognizes the partner is going through a major crisis and must be treated for the trauma happening in that present moment for at least the first 60-90 days. [8:51] When we experience a loss and grieve, we have regrets and remorse as part of the process. It’s natural for partners to blame themselves, rather than realize they have been victimized. There is an emphasis in codependency to look at the partners behavior, and from that, surmise how they enabled the addict’s behavior. [12:37] Prodepenency supports the proven fact that we do better in life, work and social situations when we have a stable relationship and attached bonds. [13:35] In the early stages of treatment, it’s important to acknowledge the partner’s suffering and efforts to keep their family together. [15:35] Q: Do you think that Codependence Treatment as a trauma based model can actually be counterproductive when working with loved ones of addicts? A: The essence of codependency is a trauma based and deficit based model. It says to the partner, you have some problems in the way you love, and pathologizes them to feel wrong and broken for the love they have been trying to show in order to save their family and marriage. Prodependency has empathy for the way they have been trying to love, and supports and teaches them to find a different way. [21:33] When partners come in to seek help, they often have been lied to and had their suspicions doubted over a long period time. It’s not their early trauma that makes them feel “crazy”, it’s the thought of their whole world being a lie, or getting information that takes the bottom out of everything they have believed to be true. [24:04] Prodependence says partners act “crazy” because they have been living in a crazy and traumatic situation and living with an active addict who has been lying, cheating and gaslighting them. That’s enough trauma for the first couple months of treatment, rather than spend time focusing on why they may be acting out from their own childhood. [25:36] Q: Do you think a lot of therapists have evolved away from the true Codependence trauma based work, but have lacked the language to express this evolution, perhaps until now with Prodependence? A: As the Codependence model evolved in the culture, the emphasis began to grow more on the partner’s responsibility for why their addict partner was acting out. Even though the field has naturally evolved its stance from blaming addicts partners, the only formal model that therapists have had has been codependency. [28:51] The goals of Codependency for partners to take care of themselves, set better boundaries and love in a healthy way is well intentioned, but

In today’s episode, Rob digs in deeper on the topic of sexuality and sexual addiction in gay men. He discusses the different norms in gay vs. heterosexual communities, what determines an addictive or compulsive sexual behavior, and the specific challenges gay men have in building relationship intimacy. There are both many differences and similarities in how gay and straight men act out in addiction, and also specific knowledge therapists need to have when working with the gay population. TAKEAWAYS: [1:39] When Rob entered the field of work in the Sexual Addiction and Compulsion in the 90’s, we were dealing with the height of the HIV crisis. Many of the men that were behaving in unsafe or promiscuous ways were sex addicts, and there were not a lot of educated experts to help them. [3:33] Rob wrote the book Cruise Control in 2003, which is the first and only book of its kind. In 2013, he updated it to include the present-day landscape of certain drug use such as methamphetamines, social media and hook up apps, and marriage. [4:56] Gay men exist in different cultural expectancies and behavioral patterns than the heterosexual population. There is also a lack of cultural validation over time for long-term intimacy building. [5:31] Many gay men have grown up being encouraged to appear a certain way and hide or deny their sexuality. They are already accustomed to having a front-facing presentation to the world of who they really are not, which is also a what sex addicts possess. [6:22] Most gay men don’t get to date in high school and end up repressing their sexuality, so there is a delayed adolescence and they often explore sexuality, relationships and intimacy starting in their 20’s. [7:02] Unfortunately in the gay world, there aren’t a lot of role models for healthy long term dating and relationship building. Younger men often don’t get to see what a healthy gay coupleship looks like, because once gay men find their partners they typically leave the singles scenes and join the paired up community. [8:34] The tendency for males to want to dominate and lead may not produce the same type of synergistic male / female relationship that produces empathy, intimacy and compassion. If two men want to be together, they will have to learn these skills and work on their affiliation. On the other hand, lesbians usually need help with individuation in relationships, as they tend to enmesh quickly in the beginning. [9:54] If an individual is demeaned and devalued for their sexuality, it is natural for them to internalize and act out against it. [11:11] We don’t talk about HIV or AIDS very much anymore, even though we lost 350,000 people before we got medication. The cultural response is almost as if it didn’t happen, and that is something that gay men live with every day. [12:18] Men share common characteristics on how they view sexuality, relationships and intimacy. The traumas that drive straight men to act out sexually are the same ones in gay men. Men are visual by nature, and it’s not unusual for gay men to have body issues, food issues and stresses among their physical image. [13:58] Gay men act out in similar ways as straight men, whether it’s a hookup app, webcams, a club, or a one-night stand. Grindr has been helpful of taking gay men out of dark alleys and put them on the same dating and relationship ground as heterosexuals. [18:03] The #2 leading addiction problem in America after opioid addiction is ChemSex. It’s difficult to compartmentalize what pieces belong to the sex addiction, and what pieces belong to drug addiction. Recovery from meth and sex addiction is a long and challenging process. [20:34] In treating gay male sex addicts, it is imperative for the therapist to know the lingo and how gay men view sexual experiences, not pathologize, and know that they will most likely need to learn intimacy. They will need guidance on finding places, hobbies activities to go to where they can grow their community, receive peer support and build their skills without being sexual. The therapist must be open to many non typical therapy topics such as sex toys, threesomes and open relationships. [23:04] Many times gay men believe part of being gay is having many sexual partners and experiences. That may be the case, but doesn’t have to be true for someone that is relationship and commitment seeking. [24:55] In the healing process where heterosexual and gay men are both present, the men bond together as men, rather than necessarily around sexualization or homophobia. RESOURCES Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Cruise Control: Understanding Sex Addiction in Gay Men Shame Grindr The Urge to Merge QUOTES: “Being a gay male who is a sex addict, it’s a difficult thing to identify, own and work past because of the cultural issues that are involved.” “There are fewer cultural boundaries for potentially excessive sexual behavior among gay men.” “Most gay men already know how to do that (have a front facing

Jonathon Taylor and Jackie Pack are on a mission to help people know what healthy dating and true intimacy look like. On today’s episode, they join Rob for a talk about their own journey as Licensed Therapists, their great work with One Layer Deeper, the common struggles they find from men and women moving from addiction to dating, the mistakes addicts make when they do go back in the dating pool, and their very own Dating Intensives. TAKEAWAYS: [3:00] Addicts tend to pick up other people’s issues and focus on the person they are dating rather than themselves, possibly to control and evade feelings of isolation and lack of control. [6:04] One of the things that surprises Jonathon and Jackie most in their work is the wants, needs and desires men and women show in relationships that may have otherwise been clouded and buried in addiction. [7:19] When a sex addict goes out in the dating world without the flirtation, seduction and the need for control, they are actually quite vulnerable. That fear and anxiety is a large part of what addicts try to avoid. [10:20] Profound changes happen in addiction within a group dynamic with the common intention is getting sober and supporting individual recovery. It’s scary often times for individuals to move into the “wild” dating scene where heartbreak, emotion and intimacy must occur to feel genuinely loved and appreciated. [11:57] Jackie and Jonathon speak about their Intensives, and how the outcomes usually are deeper and wider than ever imagined. [14:44] Love addicts realize that dating is a numbers game, and often when the second or third date isn’t working out, they just give up. When in actuality, dating in recovery is conversation, a “get to know you” type of activity such as a walk in the park, and short periods of time where you get together and get to know someone. There are multiple reasons people date including friendship and companionship, rather than just being enmeshed or focused on sex. [19:46] Jonathon and Jackie help men and women become informed and authentic partners within their own relationships. Whereas before someone may have felt unlovable and hopeless, they teach their clients how to pick a date based on appreciating someone for their core values. [25:29] Octytocin is the hormone in our brain that bonds us to our loved ones, and often released on the women’s behalf typically during sex. In Jonathon and Jackie’s intensive, they coach women on dating to enjoy themselves rather than sole focus of becoming bonded and dependent on their partner. [30:20] Jackie defines trauma as “anything else than nurturing at critical points.” RESOURCES Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Healing Paths Recovery If the Budda Dated If the Budda Married One Layer Deeper QUOTES: “I see a lot of men early in recovery discover for the first time that they get to take a very active role in creating relationships, instead of the relationship just forming around them.” “It moves into a back and forth chess game into a really collaborative process.” “You have to have a little of that spark to date someone, but too much of it and you might not know who they are.” “Half the battle is not stopping the behavior, it’s learning to be intimate.”

Michelle Mays joins the podcast to talk about how the model of working with partners of addicts, her own story of partner betrayal and how it fueled her to make a positive impact in the field, her complex betrayal trauma model, and how partners that have been cheated on finding their way to healing themselves and find peace again. Michelle runs PartnerHope site and has an amazing treatment center of her own, the Center for Relational Recovery. TAKEAWAYS: [1:25] Michelle Mays received her Masters in Counseling in 2001 in Seattle, Washington where she then opened a private practice. In 2005 she crossed the country and moved back to Northern Virginia where she opened a private practice in Leesburg. One of Michelle’s passions is to educate and train other counselors to become excellent providers of care and healing for clients. In 2011 Michelle founded the Center for Relational Recovery, a counseling and training center focused on providing leading-edge treatment to sex addicts, partners of sex addicts, trauma survivors, and those struggling with relationship issues. [2:45] Michelle herself was in a relationship with someone that was a sex addict, so she had her own journey dealing with the hurt and struggle of getting help. She found that many people didn’t understand addiction treatment, and they minimized her confusion, pain, anger and distress. [8:23] When betrayed partners come in reeling from the pain of infidelity, they are in the middle of an unfolding trauma. Michelle realizes that it is a very visceral response, and it’s important for the therapist to realize they are seeing people in the middle of a crisis. [11:23] It’s important for therapists to notice their own stress levels and deal with them appropriately rather than trying to lessen someone’s pain due to their own internal feelings of overwhelm to a strong and emotional reaction. [13:13] Grief counselors know that people are blaming themselves and feeling a lot of remorse. Rob’s experience is that partners coming in who have just been betrayed also are experiencing grief, and therefore remorse. [14:51] Michelle has developed a model for working with complex betrayal trauma, which looks at three different components that bleed together. Attachment trauma affects the way your attachment system has been impacted by the betrayal, and how the healthy bond has been disrupted and impacted. When things are traumatic in the relationship, it deregulates the partner rather than providing a sense of safety. Emotional and psychological trauma which are the result of being lied to and being manipulated in your perception of reality. This creates doubt and is most definitely a form of abuse. Rob says the intention of the cheater is not to hurt their partner, in fact, they are not thinking about the other partner's emotions at all. They are trying to cover their own tracks, without much thought to anyone else’s feelings. Sexual trauma ranges across the board and affects many facets of the partner’s identity and sexual confidence. [27:23] The betrayed partners must fully understand the depth of the betrayal, so they can know all the information, feel the pain and move on. Michelle says it takes at least a year for the betrayed partner to begin to feel like themselves again in the relationship. [27:48] When partners do detective work, they may find bits and pieces that hurt them more. It takes the other partner to sit down and tell them everything so they can get a full idea of what’s happening. [30:01] The more Michelle looks at research on attachment, the more she understands why such a high number of partners stay together after a betrayal. [30:30] On her website for betrayed partners, Partner Hope, Michelle has written about the shame that betrayed partners feel when deciding to stay. Our cultural story about leaving and never looking back is very different from the reality of what is happening. [33:11] At the Center for Relational Recovery, Michelle and her team treat the addict, partner and the relationship all at one time. RESOURCES Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Prodependence: Moving Beyond Codependency Partner Hope Center for Relational Recovery [email protected] QUOTES: “There’s this idea that if your partner cheats on you and you’re female, you have either done something or not done something. This causes partners to internalize and feel an enormous amount of shame.” “When you have a partner coming in to your office, there is no post for them, they are usually mid-trauma.” “When people pair up in long-term relationships, they actually become one biological unit. You truly become an organism together.” “Most addicts and cheaters are caught in a dilemma because they have competing attachments, their partner and the cheating or affair partner.” “If you can’t bear to be sexual with your partner, there is something seriously wrong.” “Detective work and sleuthing is a way to have control over an out of control

Today Rob welcomes respected colleague and filmmaker, Paul Ginocchio. Paul talks about his work as an MFT and CSAT, and the intention and inspiration behind creating his film The Courage to Love. He and Rob dig deeper on the difference between sex addiction and offending, the positive emotional impact upon men that stand up and speak out about their sexual problems, and about how Paul himself moved forward to find healing and redemption in his own struggles. Paul’s willingness to share and put himself out there has created a path for many to help rebuild their own lives and find recovery and love that they may have never thought possible. TAKEAWAYS: [1:09] Paul is a Licensed Marriage & Family Therapist, MFT, CSAT, with a private practice in the San Francisco Bay area. He specializes in couples therapy, and the assessment and treatment of sexual addiction. Paul is also the creator of the film The Courage To Love, a pioneering documentary film about sex addiction that tells the personal journeys of four individuals from the shame of sexual addiction to the hope and healing of recovery. [5:07] In Paul’s personal case of sex addiction, he felt it became an almost pathological need for release and validation to gratify him as an individual and his own self-worth. In his teenage years, he felt like porn was the first red flag where he knew he was out of control, but didn’t know what the term for it was or where to even begin to seek help. [6:25] Paul went to his first meeting in the Mission District in San Francisco during the mid 90’s, and tells his account of how intimidating the first experience of talking about his issue was to him. He was petrified but knew he had something in common with the guys, even though their particular story was different than his. It took him a few years of attending on and off before he fully committed to the 12-step program with Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous. [10:22] Paul encourages first-timers to commit to attending at least five meetings, and understand that it’s normal and natural to compare yourself to others in the room, both for better or worse. [11:49] Paul has a background in documentary filmmaking and possessed a love for making film and videos since childhood. As part of his 11-step he went to a 10 day silent meditation retreat, and the idea of the film and the title came to him as he was mid-retreat. He started shooting it 2007 while in grad school as a therapist, and first tried to pull from his connections within S.L.A.A, but quickly realized most people wanted to remain anonymous and weren’t ready to be public about their addiction and struggles. Despite his initial hesitation, he appeared as a subject in the video, and found Jay by googling “sex addiction memoirs”. Jay then introduced him to Greg, and years later Silvia got in touch and she was added, which has been a saving grace to connect females to the film. [15:56] Paul chose to go even beyond sex addiction and include Jay, who was an offender and who acts out in exhibitionism. [17:46] Exhibitionism and voyeurism are misdemeanor offenses, and often have highly addictive components. Sexual offending is exhibiting and engaging in nonconsensual sex and/or behavior. The Courage to Love film gives hope to the offender community, that there is a place to go and get help. [21:46] Paul talks about how the film has affected his work as a therapist, and the ability for the stories in the film to inspire others to open up and share their own stories. If he had to make a new film today, he would broaden the perspective to include the partner and spouses of addicts and couples in recovery. [30:15] The landscape of today’s modern digital age produces a much different plight than over the recent decades. RESOURCES Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Out of the Doghouse Out of the Doghouse for Christian Men The Courage To Love The Courage to Love on Amazon The Courage to Love on YouTube S.L.A.A. Erica Garza - Getting Off Robert Weiss on Megyn Kelly Today Discussing Female Sex Addiction Paul Ginocchio QUOTES: “All of us were out of control at some point in our journey, and personally crazy in the world around sex.” - PG “To hear other men talk about their struggles and their emotions, there was a part of me that thought it was awesome, yet terrifying as well.” - PG “I bumped up against this closet of shame that I thought wasn’t going to be there because I knew so many people for so many years in recovery.” - PG “The secrecy of the disease of addiction is part of the stigma.” - RW “The only understanding I had of sex addiction was my own journey, and all that I read.” - PG “A therapist is only as good as the work they have done on themselves.” - RW “When we get to diffuse that shame and that self-hatred and give people hope, change happens quickly.” - RW

Dr. Carol Clark, Board Certified Sex Therapist and Board Certified Transgender Care Therapist, joins Ron for a talk on human sexuality, addiction and intimacy. She and Rob discuss what it really means to be a sex addict, the difference between true addiction and a behavior that is deemed unacceptable, and how we face, process, and move forward in situations that are often confusing and difficult. Lastly, Dr. Clark shares the variety of interventions that she currently uses to assist clients seeking personal growth and mental health. She is Certified in Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing and specializes in treating sex addiction and gender dysphoria. TAKEAWAYS: [3:51] Dr. Clark gets a lot of questions relating to sexuality and sexual identity from both couples and individuals. She breaks down the definition and meaning behind the words “gay”, “bixsexual” and “homosexuality”, and how they relate to sex and gender, and addiction. [5:03] Dr. Clark defines addiction as, “obsessive compulsive, out of control behavior done in spite of negative consequences to self or others.” In a sex addiction, sex is the drug of choice. There are many aspects to sexuality and attraction, including development in puberty and adolescent stage of life. To fully know if someone is an addict, there is much to be discovered, history to uncover and analyzing the energy that goes into the behavior. [9:56] When we get stuck at different parts of life, we must address the trauma, no matter how small. It’s traumatic for an individual to question their orientation with their loved ones denying their feelings or even threatening impending consequences if they were to follow their impulses. Rob sees people from very conservative or morality driven environments struggle with sexuality more than people who don’t come from those environments. [11:54] When someone is looking to get help, or even just to uncover what may be going on with their own arousal or orientation issues, it is important they seek someone that has education in Human Sexuality. [14:27] Whereas intimacy is about connection, addiction is about disconnection. Rob quotes a friend, “Sex for sex addicts, with a partner who they are really committed to, is not about being horny, it’s about being willing.” A lot of sex addicts are so used to being immediately aroused by a new stimulus, they often feel disappointed when they don’t feel that with their long term steady partners. [16:28] Dr. Clark’s book, Addict America: The Lost Connection, explores our culture’s tendency to look externally for internal validation. This never fills us, and sends us into an addictive place, seeking more with no success. [18:25] Rob explains the term secondary gains, and how for some people it may be just a simple behavior such as going to get a drink, or having sex as a way to foster intimacy and connection. For others, they will do a behavior to try and fill their void, or numb their pain. [23:21] Dr. Clark says that when someone comes in to her office who has been encouraged to deny or push away any part of who they inherently are, there is much work to be done. [23:40] Dr. Clark helps her clients process negative events and turn them around through EMDR, or Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing. After they reprocess the old memories, they can move forward and explore what is congruent with their own beliefs. [30:43] No couples are going to agree 100% of the time on sexual desires and what makes them aroused. Dr. Clark and Rob both agree that what is important is the communication between partners to identify what works for that particular relationship. The world of sex addiction is becoming less rigid about a one size fits all approach for everyone, and becoming articulated towards what works for that individual and their love lives. RESOURCES Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Out of the Doghouse Out of the Doghouse for Christian Men Addict America: The Lost Connection Hannah Gadsby [email protected] Clinical Sexology Phd Therapy Certification Training QUOTES: “It comes back to behavior and what the thoughts are behind that behavior.” “Addiction is about objectification. A sex addiction is about addiction more than sex.” “Just because you don’t like something around your sexual behavior doesn’t mean it’s addiction.” “I’d like you to think about sex as an expression of intimacy, and being open and connected with another person.” “We would like sex with a partner to be about intimacy and connection.” “Our addiction is stimulation, that is really what we get addicted to.” “We are born to be optimally sexual, and then we get messages about what is okay, and what’s not okay, and we do have some of the hard wiring.”

In a world of self-centered social media and “it’s about me” culture, the work Tara Lemasters is doing is of utmost importance. Tara is a Licensed Therapist and an expert on the issue of narcissism, what it is and what it’s not, and our need to understand more deeply what a diagnosis of narcissism means. She and Rob also discuss when exhibitions of narcissism are normal and healthy vs. when self-obsession begins to take a turn into something much darker, and the difference between narcissist self-obsession and real empathy. TAKEAWAYS: [1:24] Narcissism is almost something that is correlated with addiction. Most people that have problems with drugs and alcohol also have problems with how they see themselves. [2:05] Over the past 5 years, the term narcissism has become embraced in every relationship situation in our culture. The problem is not the word itself, but when a narcissist finds themselves more attached to their needs and addictions then the people they care about, with no fear of suffering consequences. [4:00] The term Narcissism is derived from Narcissus, a figure from Greek Mythology. This mythical being was so handsome that he fell in love with his own image reflected in a pool of water. [4:53] Our material and outward focused culture supports narcissism and the belief of “I must have / get more to succeed and be liked.” Social media also supports the tendency for us to show off or portray certain things to get likes or shares, making us feel more important and connected. [6:22] Rob explains how every addict is a narcissist when engaged in their addictions. It shows up in sex addicts when it is an abandonment of core values and beliefs, at the expense of compartmentalizing what they want, when they want it. The addicts puts the need to satisfy their own needs above others, and hide it so they can have their cake and eat it too. [9:38] Tara believes that the process of healing is a process of creating greater empathy for oneself personally, and for the people in their life that their actions have an impact on. When Tara’s clients start to experience grief regarding how their actions have affected who they loved ones, a crack of empathy starts to come through. [11:20] In the early stages of healing, Rob often sees narcissist self-obsession, where the addict is worried or upset about how judgements hurts and affects them, and their self image. Later on in the healing process, when they feel true empathy, the focus will be on how their actions impacted their loved ones. [13:14] Expectations do not always reflect reality when a partner wishes for their narcissist partner to heal and deal with their issue quickly. It may often take a while, and this can be very frustrating for a partner whose world has been shattered. Tara recommends that the hurt partner focus as much as they can on self-care and finding support of their own. [19:57] Narcissistic people tend to lack empathy, so they will do whatever pleases them the most, and not think about how that affects the people around them. There is a difference between narcissism and sociopathy, where narcissism tend to have intact remorse which may be brought out during treatment, but sociopaths are incapable of feeling empathy whatsoever. [24:46] Most men are problem solvers, and want to fix the problem they created. Their version of making things better may be radically different than how long it takes for their partner to heal from the hurt of their actions. [30:49] After a betrayal and initial trust is broken, it can never be the same again. Partners must rebuild together from the ground up, and it’s very similar to rebuilding a house from scratch. RESOURCES Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Out of the Doghouse Out of the Doghouse for Christian Men Narcissus in Greek Mythology Tara LeMasters QUOTES: “Narcissism implies that the externals is going to help determine how you think of me. Our culture certainly supports that.” “An addict by definition is a narcissist.” “Real empathy is not about you at all. It’s about understanding what others are going through as a result of how you treated them.”

Dr. James Wadley is on a mission to bring openness and community to those from all walks of life that may otherwise have shied away from stepping forward to get help for themselves or their families. He is an advocate and voice for healing across the world and is passionate about working with both those in the community and training the professional leaders that work with them. He is an Associate Professor and Director of the Master of Human Services program at The Lincoln University and licensed professional counselor in Pennsylvania and New Jersey. He is the founding editor of the scholarly, interdisciplinary journal, the Journal of Black Sexuality and Relationships (University of Nebraska Press). Dr. Wadley talks with Rob about his background in education and educational leadership, his program development to help African Americans know where to turn when seeking treatment, and ways to improve the current structure so everyone feels welcome and deserving to be part of whatever it is that will serve them towards their health. He and Rob also discuss the ways that African American communities are typically underserved when it comes to mental health and addiction programs, especially sexual addiction, how we can help minorities step out of the hidden secrets of addiction and into the light of healing and hope. TAKEAWAYS: [2:52] Dr. Wadley has worked with African Americans and minority groups for many decades, and still finds misconceptions, and mistrust around the community and medical and mental health professions. It is great for someone struggling to get initial support and advice from a member in the community or social group, but non-medical help can only go so far, and oftentimes their response comes from a pre existing belief, stereotype or myth. [5:06] Dr. Wadley and his colleagues actively try to work towards people having a “sex positive” approach towards sexuality. This means facing and dealing with the stigma and trauma of sexual expression in the African decent, whether it’s stereotypes surrounding the community, or the way they express their own sexual identity. [7:16] Rob and Dr. Wadley run into the same type of problems, but in different ways. Minority groups tend to not seek out professional help for their issue, and even when they do, the factor of access and finding a professional of a similar minority is usually of importance as well. [8:18] Although other cultures deal with sexual addiction just as much as the white culture, there are several factors that make up why they seek professional and 12-step treatment groups less. First, if they walk in and see that they are the only representative of their minority, they are less likely to open up and share, thus reducing the likelihood of ever returning again. [11:08] Dr. Wadley finds that spending time in the community is a way to at least open the conversation with people regarding their sexual behavior and help them get their guard down to see that there is no judgement or stigma around seeking help. [15:08] Dr. Wadley credits a lot of his success to the positive and inspirational people around him. [18:02] Although the communities may be different, the pain and shame of addiction is the same across the board no matter race or ethnicity. The top sexual issues among Rob’s young male clients are the same as Dr. Wadley’s - online porn, hookup apps, traditional affair / anonymous sex and prostitutes. Seeking out help online is better for anonymity, but individuals must be in the know that they are expected to share vulnerably everything they are dealing with. [21:22] Rob and Dr. Wadley discuss the difference of options when a couple has financial means and resources vs. when they need to stay together because divorce or separating just isn’t an option financially. [26:42] On a recent trip to Cuba, Dr. Wadley appreciated how he could fully experience the culture, as it is one of the few places that hasn’t been colonized. RESOURCES Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Dr. James Wadley The Journal of Black Sexuality and Relationships Association of Black Sexologists and Clinicians Lincoln University Dr. Wadley on Twitter [email protected] QUOTES: “While people in the community may be able to listen and give advice, they are not mental health professionals.” “My work is to try my best to empower not only those people who are indigenous to the community, but also to work with the folks who work with folks in those communities in having a level of acceptance and appreciation towards diversity.” “Minorities tend to want to keep their problems to themselves.” “I allow my spirit to lead me.” We as therapists and healers have to figure out how to provide access to those folks who probably can’t afford us.”

Today’s topic is one of the most important, yet least covered subjects matter in sex addiction - redemption. Rob is joined by special guest Tom Ryan to talk about recovery, hope, the dichotomy of holding a position of power and prestige when dealing with an addiction, and when it’s okay to not get it right the first time, or the second. Tom is a spiritual community leader, father, husband and has much to share on the struggles of living a hidden life of denial and escapism. Tom is the author of Ashamed No More, and is Founding and Executive Director of Living Integrated, an organization that helps individuals with compulsive sexual behaviors find hope and healing by integrating their spirituality with healthy recovery practices. TAKEAWAYS: [2:10] Tom attended the University of Missouri and earned a bachelor’s degree in education. He got involved with a youth ministry at a local church, and that led him to follow his divine calling to professional ministry. His life was a true dichotomy between spirituality, religion and the struggle of a compulsive sexual addiction. [7:45] Sex addiction can escalate and grow. Tom found himself continuously drawing the line of his boundaries further away from his morals, and then feeling the guilt and shame that came along with the emptiness and loneliness of living a secret addicted life. There is a tendency to call someone a hypocrite, liar or fraud instead of someone that is deeply struggling with painful issues. [11:14] Tom found help and visited a therapist, who recommended the book Out of the Shadows by Dr. Patrick Carnes. He cites the experience of discovering this work as “breathtaking”, because it showed him that he wasn’t alone, and he wasn’t a failure. [15:39] Tom and Rob discuss the disconnection and isolation that comes with addiction. Much like eating potato chips when you are hungry, you are satisfying an urge with an impulse that in the long run isn’t good or healthy for you, and doesn’t make you any less hungry than when you first started. [16:45] Tom and his therapist worked together to help Tom find a trusted friend to listen to his real story, and one who he could share his vulnerability with, and who would show up for Tom. [21:06] Tom shares how he came out to his wife as an addict, and the impact the disclosure had on his healing and marriage. Years later, Tom learned a lot, progressed through his treatment, but still felt ashamed that he didn’t have sustained sobriety, and his public persona didn’t honor who he was privately. [28:27] Tom hit his lowest point in 2008 when he was arrested. He felt ashamed that he had already been in treatment and been out as an addict to his loved ones, and still was acting out. [31:56] Many of the other faith leaders both Rob and Tom have worked with hold a sincere motivation to help others and follow their calling, but are stuck in the negative loop of their addiction, and often find it even harder to get help due to their elevated position. [32:02] In addition to Tom coming back on the show, there is a possibility of “Tom’s Corner” on Rob’s website, Sex and Relationship Healing. This will be a safe space for religious leaders and workers to connect with others and talk about their addiction, no matter what point of it they are currently at. RESOURCES Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Mark Salling Tom Ryan TC-Ryan Dr. Patrick Carnes Out of the Shadows by Dr. Patrick Carnes Ashamed No More by Tom Ryan Living Integrated QUOTES: “You can get past your consequences. You can have a life beyond the problem you are in right now.” “What was satisfying and distracting now no longer is, and you want a little bit more.” “Sex addicts have a varsity level skill of compartmentalization.” “When I’m living in the shadows, it's amazing what I’m willing to do, and when I think I’m living in the light, it’s amazing what I’m not willing to do.” “Part of the grandiosity of the disease is we think there is nobody quite as big a failure as we are.” “My persona was still a performance persona, even though I wanted to be genuine and sincere. And it was eating me alive.” “There is that tendency for all of us to look at someone in town who is supposed to be the moral sheriff in town and say “ ‘Oh my gosh, what a loser, hypocrite, and liar.’ “ But many times these are sincere servants who really wanted to help others and honor their vows and commitments, but found themselves in this diabolical catch in life.” “The gifts are there, but we have to get out of our own way. Covering up and hiding it doesn’t do anything.”

Today’s episode features Dr. David Fawcett, therapist, author of Lust, Men and Meth, and expert in methamphetamines and stimulants in sexual behavior. David and Rob discuss trends in drug use among the gay male and female population, the frequent co-occurrence of both sex and drug addictions, risk factors and consequences of meth use, and the need for disruption in therapy to update training, assessment, and treatment. David works hard to eliminates the stigma around addiction, and advocates to look at the whole picture of addiction rather than compartmentalizing it. He frequently presents workshops on LGBT health, addiction, HIV, and co-occurring disorders both in the US and internationally. TAKEAWAYS: [2:25] We are in the middle of a dangerous trend. For about the last twenty years, we have seen a rise of stimulant abuse, particularly methamphetamines and cocaine in conjunction with sexual behavior. We have also seen a change in what kind of meth is coming in, as it’s much higher grade and leading to addiction in a quicker and more powerful way than ever before. [3:42] Meth and stimulants can be bonded with all types of behavior, not all sexually related. However, when used in conjunction with sexual behavior, people develop a dependence on the drug to perform in any capacity. David has noticed a trend with young gay men to skip over the pills and go right to the injectibles such as Trimix to treat erectile dysfunction. [5:36] The opioid crisis is certainly worth the mention and attention it has been getting in mainstream media, but meth overdoses are actually outpacing opioid-related ones. [6:39] Methamphetamine is a synthetic molecule that is neurotoxic and sits on the receptors for 9-10 hours, providing a surge and eventually the depletion of our “feel good” neurotransmitter dopamine. [7:44] Dopamine rewards behavior that helps us seek rewards in order to survive. The most natural way we release dopamine is through sex. [9:44] David sees many of his clients use meth to try and numb and dissociate negative feelings such as shame, isolation, and trauma. Over time, he has seen it most commonly in his clients that are gay men but is also now seeing it rise in the female population and eating disorder world as well. [10:50] There are a host of psychological and physiological severe consequences in meth use including brain damage, suicidal thoughts and actions, and cardiac issues. [12:53] Not all drug users become addicted. David discusses that although about 20% of drug users are led to addiction, the consequences are extremely severe. [13:05] David and Rob explain that meth and sexual addiction usually must be treated simultaneously. If one is a meth addict, chances addictions merge and work in tandem, creating a sex addiction as well. [15:57] Sexual addiction is often not addressed in drug treatment, left untreated may be a factor to lead the individual back to using. [18:20] There’s been a model of how we view addiction, and it’s been based on substances for 50 or 60 years, with a cultural resistance to natural occurring addiction such as sex and eating disorders. That model is changing, and more therapists and training programs are beginning to understand the repercussions and need for assessment of behavioral or process addictions. [21:38] Rob and David discuss the importance of finding a therapist that is well versed in the specialty one is seeking focused help. [25:45] David and Rob role play a typical call of someone seeking help for addiction and a potential therapist. [28:20] Therapists must do a more detailed assessment of sexual history as it related to addiction, and be hypersensitive to the level of shame, fear, trauma that their clients are bringing in to the treatment. It’s also important to help the client envision how sexuality is going to unfold in a healthy way in recovery. RESOURCES Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 David Fawcett @LustMenMeth Facebook @LustMenMeth Twitter Lust, Men, and Meth: A Gay Man’s Guide to Sex and Recovery NIH QUOTES: “There is a huge overlap between sexual addiction and stimulant addiction.” “Most meth addicts are probably sex addicts.” “One addiction can trigger the other. We see if people try and get clean from meth, their sexual desire fades. The two become paired and work in tandem.” “We have many people in the substance addiction treatment centers who are not getting adequately assessed for the sexual component in terms of sexual history intervention.” “Therapists should be required to do some reflection on their own attitudes and beliefs about sex.” “Therapists will resist, deflect, defer or avoid to keep themselves comfortable.” “When it comes to specialty work, we need specialty therapists.” “You get to therapist shop. It's important to find someone you feel comfortable with.”

Trauma, abuse, and addiction happen everywhere, it doesn’t matter what class or culture. Today’s guest, Sam Louie, is a psychotherapist specializing in treating shame, trauma and a host of addictions. Sam is on a mission to reach more of the Asian - American culture and help them with their heavy shame and cultural stigmas surrounding addiction. Sam reflects on his own experience of addiction and then getting help, gives more information on Japanese culture as it relates to addiction and shame, and how he went from feeling defective to comfortable in his own skin and a role model for others. Lastly, Sam shares ways we can outreach to communities that may be different than ours to help others rise above the shame and embarrassment that go along with addiction. TAKEAWAYS: [1:01] Sam Louie is a psychotherapist, blogger, and speaker on cultural shame and addictions. Sam is also an Emmy Award-Winning former broadcast journalist who continues to write. His books include, "Asian Shame and Addiction: Suffering in Silence" and "Slanted Eyes: The Asian-American Poetic Experience". On a personal note, Sam is a first-generation immigrant from Hong Kong who grew up amidst 3 generations of addictions. [3:46] Sam shares that one of the challenges with minority cultures and specifically Asian - American cultures getting help for their addiction is the feeling of cultural shame. Asians are collectivists by nature, meaning that instead of a focus on individualism, they put an emphasis on cohesiveness among the groups (family, society, government) in their world both on a small and large scale. Sam explains further that a lot of it is based on Confucian views where obedience and order are the common denominators. [6:02] Sam recalls how he first learned at a very early age how important it is to honor the family name above all else. [9:39] In the teenage years, traditional Asian values confronted with American tendency to rebel and strike out as an individual can be a confusing and conflicting time. [11:18] Shame can run deep in the Asian - American culture for cases of addiction, sexual issues and divorce. Sam speaks of a Chinese saying where shame can run 8 generations deep. [13:19] Sam shares how suicide in the Japanese culture can be seen as a way to get back honor and not shame their family. [16:01] In his youth, Sam encountered a role model in his Pastor, who showed vulnerability, encouragement and support. [19:44] In the Japanese culture, sexual shame even as the victim, reflects on breaking the code of honor within your family. [22:42] Sam reads one of his poems and explains the meaning behind the words. He then shares how his addictive and compulsive tendencies started emerging in childhood. [25:02] Children who are profoundly neglected and who experience emotional and physical neglect have to figure out how to comfort and validate themselves. This is where a lot of addiction stems from. [33:10] Educating yourself first on the nature of addiction is key. Then, finding someone of your ethnic background or cultural identification can help very much on the road to recovery. RESOURCES Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Asian Shame and Addiction: Suffering in Silence Slanted Eyes: The Asian - American Poetic Experience Sam Louie MFT Hikikomori Getting Off by Erica Garza QUOTES: “Sadly, there are several minorities that are underserved in America when it comes to addiction services and mental health.” “There are two sides to the coin - we have shame on one end, and honor on the other.” “If I hide from things, other people will never get the exposure that they need.” “Since intimacy problems and sex addiction most often comes out of early dysfunction, it doesn’t matter where you are from.” “Much addiction comes out of that period where a child has to learn how to survive on their own.” “So many of us need to see someone of our cultural heritage going through something as well.”

Mark Anthony Lord is an expert in the area of spirituality and recovery. As an author, coach, speaker, and minister, Mark sees firsthand the damage that addiction can impart upon one’s spirituality and faith. When we heal, Mark believes it must be first from within. As a Reverend, Mark helps people from all walks of life become back in tune with their spiritually, or possibly even connect for the first time. He and Rob also talk about the isolating nature of addiction, the connection between God and sexuality, and fostering the one relationship that we can count on no matter what the circumstances, the one between ourselves and our higher power. TAKEAWAYS: [1:46] Dealing with spirituality is one of the hardest challenges that sex addicts tend to have, whether it’s their own personal morality, or within the healing process. Betrayed partners also take issue with feeling as though they were living in a giant lie based upon their partners faith versus their actions of bad behavior. [3:00] Mark believes that addiction is a spiritual disease which disconnects an individual from their spirit of creativity, love, joy and generosity. Addiction affects us first spiritually, and drains our zeal for life. [4:26] The tendency for sex addicts to compartmentalize bad behavior is a way of perpetuating the cycle of disconnection, mistrust and unworthiness, thus leading to even more disconnection. [8:14] Mark loves doing exercises to reconnect people with their life affirming and life-giving passions. Whether it’s nature, family, work or service, we all get excited by something deep inside. [10:44] Although their paths of treatment are different, both Mark and Rob are doing work where people connect both with themselves, their own pain and ultimately, learning to take joy in the basic human connections around us. [13:26] One of the challenges about religion currently is the feeling that one must be “good” and “together” to partake in it, instead of it feeling like a salvation for those that need it most. Mark discusses some spiritually bankrupt religious leaders that could have used some connection in their soul. [16:25] A lot of people living in duality feel as though they must be afraid or fearful of God. They must be courageous to explore their own broken relationship with God, and heal it to move forward with recovery. [18:32] In the 12-step program, Mark has seen miracles happen time and time again once people connect with their own spirituality and begin to connect with the human experience in an open and vulnerable way. [19:26] Mark explains his belief that God and sex do not have to be separate, and that the power in both God and sexual energy in a healthy human being are aligned. [24:59] Our childhood attachments and security impacts our outlook on love, security and trust in the world. Mark believes the more of a broken upbringing one has, the more important it is to seek spirituality and a higher power. [26:10] Expecting people to never let us down or disappoint us, will always keep us separated and disconnected from our human experience. A big part of being spiritually in tune is to love others despite their flaws. [28:55] Mark feels that marriage is for the exact reason of loving one another through our brokenness. It doesn’t necessarily mean staying or leaving after a betrayal, just to love ourselves unconditionally. RESOURCES Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 To contact Mark Anthony Lord: [email protected] Mark Anthony Lord Cityside Spiritual Community QUOTES: “I believe that addiction is a spiritual disease.” “We all have a natural spirit inside us. Some like to think about spirit in relationship to God, some like to be religious about it, and a lot of people don’t. What I love about the recovery world is they don’t tell anyone what they have to believe in.” “Addictions kill us at the level of spirit first.” “Honesty is the doorway to our freedom. That is so scary for sex and love addicts.” “I know God as perfect unconditional love. There’s nothing you can do or say that would ever change that.” “God and sex are not separate from me.” “That’s the evolution of our spirituality - to realize that people will fail, and will change. Nothing outside of us will remain our source - our source is inside of us.” “Most people try to trust people and love God. That’s wrong, you can only trust God and learn how to love people.”

Tami VerHelst has been working with Rob for over 15 years in the field of sex, love and relationship addiction. She has been central to many therapists and is often times the very first person someone talks to when they are in crisis mode and undergoing a trauma. People with sexual addictions are often filled with shame and embarrassment, and she continues to be the lifeline that shows them that help is out there. Tami also talks about the difficulties of treating sex addiction compared to other addictions, the importance of getting help from an expert, the programs she is currently working to develop through Seeking Integrity, how she decides where to send someone to get help, and important resources for sex addicts and their partners looking for help and hope. TAKEAWAYS: [1:51] Despite all the different stories and cases Tami has heard, she always looks at it through the lens of helping someone alleviate their pain. [2:43] When people first call Tami, they can do so anonymously. This takes away the fear of judgment that usually comes with admitting there is an addiction. [4:44] One of the most challenging issues Tami faces is people choosing to overcome the stigma and shame and follow through to contact the resources for support that she provides. [7:23] While drug and alcohol behavior may be able to be ended completely, sexual addiction and food disorders require a perimeter of what is healthy for the individual since sex and hunger are two of our natural desires. [13:35] Each addiction is quite unique and requires its own focus. Many times questions about sexual behavior are overlooked in the mental health field. [14:07] Tami has been in the field for so long that she knows the right questions to ask people to find them the appropriate help and resources. [16:31] If the partner gets good support and the addict gets solid help, they have a greater chance of getting through the trauma of betrayal. [19:49] Tami has seen more women acting with typical male characteristic behavior in the past five years. The world has changed dramatically with the advent of numerous apps that make it as easy as the click of a button to get sex. [23:53] For many addicts, it’s almost more exciting to search for sex and build to orgasm than the actual intercourse itself. [26:17] It is very important for the partner to stand up, draw a line in the sand, and not stand for their partner to continue on with harmful and hurtful behavior. It is also important throughout the treatment for the partner to get their own help and support as well. [33:10] To contact Tami directly, email her at: [email protected]. [34:15] Tami herself struggled with addiction. She credits her amazing life with recovery and takes great pleasure in giving back. RESOURCES Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Dr. Patrick Carnes Out of the Doghouse Bloom for Women APSATS QUOTES: “I’m so passionate about people having the opportunity for solid recovery. Not just abstinence but a happy, joyous and free recovery.” “The biggest barrier can just be talking to someone else about your problem.” “What is sobriety and what is recovery? It really depends on the person.” “Getting a good foundation will help people get to a stable place and past the initial crisis.” “Don’t have hope if the addict is not willing to get help.” “My recovery has given me everything.”

Dr. Barbara Steffens joins Rob to talk about betrayal trauma and her many extensive years of work within the field. She looks at addiction and infidelity through both the lens of the addict and the partner and works to normalize all parts of what occurs in the addiction and healing process. She and Rob discuss what betrayal trauma is, why some partners may decide to stay, and how they can eventually begin to possibly trust again. Dr. Steffens founded and is President of The Association of Partners of Sex Addicts Trauma Specialists, and helps clients and also therapists work with people experiencing profound trauma and betrayal. She is also the author of Your Sexually Addicted Spouse. TAKEAWAYS: [0:49] Dr. Barbara Steffens has been a specialist in sex addiction and partners of sex addiction since 1999. Her book Your Sexually Addicted Spouse is a lifeline to help partners cope and heal after betrayal trauma. [2:22] Often times people first associate a trauma with abuse, either physical or mental, but there is also a trauma that goes along with a betrayal within a relationship. When there is an expectation of trust, safety, and security that is violated, it can have a profound effect. [10:43] The partner acting out still can have love, attachment and a connection, but the quality of how deep their intimacy can actually be changes over time as they must compartmentalize in order to not feel too much guilt over their behavior. It’s an internal split for the addict, and hard for the partner to understand how the addict can say they love them and yet still betray their trust. [16:15] It is another betrayal when partners are not heard for what has just happened to them, and the addict may even blame some of their behavior on the spouse. [18:12] Dr. Steffens had to first go to the infidelity field to learn about betrayal trauma from the partner’s point of view, as the addict field just focused primarily on the needs of the addict. [19:32] While partners may not be able to trust the way they once did, they can develop an ability to trust the heart, intent and the behaviors they observe along with their own ability to detect lies and deceit. [23:01] Dr. Steffens tells partners that they did not make their partner cheat, and they don’t have the power over how someone else responds. She encourages them to work with their own emotions and speak their truth rather than prescribing a one size fits all protocol. [32:36] Partners sometimes stay with an addict when there is a relapse due to not wanting to ruin the stability and course of what they have built in their life. Dr. Steffens knows every partner has the choice to decide what is right for them, and takes the judgement away from those no matter what they deem tolerable. RESOURCES Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Prodependence: Moving Beyond Codependency Dr. Barbara Steffens Your Sexually Addicted Spouse Association of Partners of Sex Addicts Trauma Specialists https://twitter.com/APSATSOrg QUOTES: “The best thing that the field can do is really listen to the partner as an individual.” “Over time that ability to attach and connect when somebody is engaging in other behaviors has to loosen because so much of the attachment and attention goes to the addiction.” “There’s no intimacy when there are secrets.” “Traumatized people look messy because they are - their life has just exploded.” “Addicts can look very slick and together, even when they are not.” “The greatest gift we can give to partners when we are helping them is the ability for them to trust themselves again.” “There is no pain-free way to deal with this situation. It’s just what kind of pain and how true to yourself are you going to be.”

Hope Ray does amazing work in helping couples and individuals cope in the throes of a betrayal, and helps give them the opportunity to possibly even develop a higher quality of intimacy if they do decide to continue the relationship. She is a Licensed Professional Counselor (LPC), Certified Sex Addiction Therapist (CSAT), and a Certified Hope and Freedom Practitioner. Her experience has shown there is hope for healing even after the devastation of sexual secrets and infidelity. She and Rob talk about empathy for the partner, developing an intimacy radar and her intensive specialized programs to provide help in a great time of need. TAKEAWAYS: [0:54] Hope’s work is focused on working with couples one at a time in an intensive, specialized environment. [2:27] Hope seeks to take away some of the stigma of addiction, and help both the addict and their partner know that help is out there. [5:39] For the partner experiencing the betrayal and learning to what extent they have been misled, they are often caught between the desire to run away from the situation and their own hurt, and having empathy for their emotionally ill spouse who may need their support to get better. [10:08] Sex addicts typically develop characteristics of entitlement, narcissism, and dishonesty to cover up the guilt of acting out. [13:58] Addicts may be able to balance home and family life with their secret for a while, but will show up in a way that is disconnected and not fully present. [20:14] Rob and Hope support partners in their work by acknowledging their pain and not trivializing the trauma they are experiencing. Partners usually feel shame and guilt that they didn’t know what was happening, even if others around them were aware. [22:14] Hope encourages her clients to be able to detect low levels of intimacy, to express it to their partner and become aware of their own needs that constitute a healthy relationship. [32:14] Partners should be careful who they choose to talk to, individuals who can’t worsen the situation later by knowing the deep dark secrets of the situation. Both Hope and Rob suggest finding a professional in the field that specializes in sex and relationship healing. RESOURCES Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Hope Ray Therapy Hope and Freedom Intensive Dr. Patrick Carnes Dr. Ken Adams Prodependence: Moving Beyond Codependency QUOTES: “When we are living two separate lives, we develop a lot of poor character traits in order to keep these secrets.” “They may show up, but half the time they aren’t emotionally present.” ---(Rob said “they”, but in case you want to change it to addicts) “Partners are so misunderstood. It’s really important they don’t experience blame for their partner's sexual behavior in any way.” “I believe one of the greatest powers we can give partners is the ability to detect intimacy.” - Hope

Finding out your partner is a sex addict and that everything you have believed to be previously true is a lie can be devastating, traumatic and isolating to say the least. Often times most partners are embarrassed and shameful, thinking they did something to cause the addict’s bad behavior. Today our special guest, Marnie Breecker, explains more on the partner’s point of view. Marnie is a Psychotherapist, Marriage and Family Counselor, Certified Sex Addiction Therapist, Certified Clinical Partners Specialist, and Founder and Clinical Director for the Center of Relational Healing. She talks with Rob about the typical emotional patterns she sees in both parties when dealing with sex addiction, how she helps them get help, and why specialized treatment is so important. TAKEAWAYS: [2:02] Anger, shock, confusion and an overall crisis in all areas of life. Usually, the anger is directed at first towards their partner, and then as the situation unfolds the anger also spreads to their partner’s family and friends that knew their partner was acting out. [4:39] The partner usually has a conflict where they want to help the person they love, but their own anger and fear creates a barrier. [10:48] After the initial stabilization of help, the partner’s anger surfaces not only in regards to the event(s) of addiction but the fact that they feel all of the attention and support has gone to the person with the addiction. [13:30] Working with partners is often seen as a daunting task for therapists. They usually are a sign of acting crazy or unbalanced, but really this is a human that is in the midst of an actual trauma and has usually been denied their own intuition. [21:19] When you are living a lie as an addict, you have the control when you get to decide what truth your partner hears. One of the hardest thing for the addict to realize is that once the spouse uncovers the truth, they are in control. [23:28] Specialized treatment is so important to discern whether someone is an addict and to delineate what type of treatment is appropriate. [28:40] When a couple comes in dealing with sex addiction and/or confidentiality, the first thing Marnie does is assess what measures must be taken for their physical safety. Next, she helps the partner try to find a community of support to deal with their own trauma of the unfortunate outside circumstance. RESOURCES Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 The Center for Relational Healing Marnie Breecker

Today Rob welcomes his admired and respected colleague, Dr. Don Hilton. As an adjunct associate professor of neurosurgery at the University of Texas Health Center at San Antonio, Dr. Hilton has been at the forefront in expanding what we know about the neurobiology of addiction. He talks with Rob about the ways our brain learns addiction, how porn may be the “fast food of sex” and the need for our culture to catch up in education when it comes to sex and pornography. Dr. Hilton’s research and work help people get over the stigma shame of addiction and instead learn to create what we really all want - authentic human relationships with a valid connection. TAKEAWAYS: [2:28] Dr. Hilton’s recent focus has been on pornography and the effect of pornography on the brain. About a decade ago he was in Australia to lecture on minimally invasive spine surgery, and met up with a dear friend who was a world-renowned scientist studying the natural instinctive brain craving for survival. The question came up about engines of desire, and what made animals crave things to help them survive. A research project grew out of those discussions, and they found that the same DNA gene sets that caused the animal model to desire salt also correlated with addiction. [5:52] Is pursuing sensation over emotion quite possibly all part of the evolutionary plan for us? [10:02] Virtual Reality is a double-edged sword - it may help people connect who are too socially shy or introverted, but it also brings up a confusing blend of emotions. Dr. Hilton feels as though we will, in the end, choose an emotional connection, and we are designed to connect and bond with each other as humans. [14:29] Porn strikes at our need for human connection and love most deeply. Rob looks at it in a way similar to alcohol, where for some people it’s a real issue, and some people can use it sporadically without a problem. Dr. Hilton feels as though there is a problem with the product itself in terms of the risks, use of drugs and alcohol and consent. [22:32] Dr. Hilton feels that America could follow a similar model to Britain’s to protect our minors. For parents to say it’s okay for their minors to partake in it, it’s important that they have an understanding of the reality of what they are watching. [28:02] It would be more helpful if counselors and educational supporters talked about real sex issues such as pornography with teenagers. Currently, only 20 states in America offer sex education as a standard to their high school students, and 12 require parental permission. [32:03] If a person can step back and realize an addiction such as porn is a problem, but it is not them and a problem with their brain. Recovery is a learning process where we come back to wholeness. RESOURCES Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Out of the Doghouse Cruise Control Dr. Donald Hilton, M.D. Bio Dr. Donald Hilton, M.D. Neurosurgeon, University of Texas, San Antonio -- Dr. Hilton is an adjunct associate professor of neurosurgery at the University of Texas Health Science Center at San Antonio, where he is the director of the spine fellowship and the director of neurosurgical training at the Methodist Hospital rotation. He is a fellow of the American College of Surgeons and of the American Association of Neurological Surgeons. His research and publishing interests have included traumatic brain injury, minimally invasive surgery, and neural mechanisms of addiction. He also serves on the board of directors of the Washington DC-based National Center on Sexual Exploitation (NCOSE), and on the board of directors of the Society for the Advancement of Sexual Health (SASH).

Licensed marriage and family therapist Marnie Ferree joins Rob today for a conversation on healing sex and love addictions, her own story of recovery from abuse, and how our background and current culture shape the way we go about getting our needs met in love and sexual relationships. Since 1992 she has been working to advance the field of healing sexual addiction in a variety of different arenas, and is currently pioneering the first intensive workshop for female teens and adolescent sex addicts. TAKEAWAYS: [1:20] Marnie C. Ferree, M.A. is a licensed marriage and family therapist in Nashville, where she directs and is the founder of Bethesda Workshops, a short time Christian based intensive program for sex addicts and partners. The workshop she established in 1997 for female sex addicts was the first of its kind in the country. Her book No Stones: Women Redeemed from Sexual Addiction was the first to address sexual addiction in women from a Christian perspective. [3:14] As a young adolescent Marnie had unresolved losses, abandonment, family dysfunction and abuse within her close circle. This had a major impact on how she paired affection and attention with sex, and her pattern of getting her needs met through intense relationships reflects the story of addiction all too often and mirrored the abuse in her childhood. [9:23] Marnie helps her clients see the unconscious patterns that emerge in their adulthood from previous abuse when looking for love and connection. They work together to alleviate some of the confusion, shame, and blame. [12:54] Marnie is seeing less overt sexual trauma in her workshops, and more of the effect coming from our sexually saturated and exploitative culture. [18:09] We are in a deep need of more honest conversations on human sexuality and the way our values and belief systems clash with the objectification of women and men in our culture. [23:09] Healing begins when someone decides to bring their secret behavior into light, whatever their problematic or dependent behavior is. [28:42] Marnie feels her work with adolescent females and their families very redemptive and rewarding. RESOURCES Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Out of the Doghouse Cruise Control No Stones: Women Redeemed by Sexual Shame Making Advances: A Comprehensive Guide for Treating Female Sex and Love Addicts Bethesda Workshops

Erica Garza, journalist and author of Getting Off, joins Rob for an honest and raw discussion of her past experiences with porn and sex addiction, and how it led to her now being a voice for redemption and women throughout the world. Erica took her own shame, guilt and fear surrounding the topic and turned to a path of self-care, support and honesty. She embodies the future of female power and bravely uses her own past to light a future for those broken to recover. TAKEAWAYS: [2:08] Loneliness was a theme from early on in Erica’s life. Around 12, she masturbated compulsively and had a sense of guilt and shame about sexuality, with little to no discussion about what was happening. She was diagnosed with scoliosis at the same age, and started to use masturbation and porn as a comfort to make herself feel better. This led to her seeking out continued experiences and scenarios that mixed pleasure and shame. [7:53] Growing up in a family that doesn’t talk about sexuality can lead to a feeling of shame and confusion. [8:45] When someone sexualizes a sex addict an object, it may make them feel powerful and in control, but only for a short amount of time before isolation and emptiness kicks in. [11:47] Around her 30th birthday, Erica took a trip to Bali and paid more attention to self care and loving self talk. During this time she also met her future husband and found it refreshing to be accepted in her raw and vulnerable state. This inspired her to seek even more support, and take positive steps in a new direction. [19:09] Erica felt that being exposed and honest with her thoughts and feelings led to a deeper connection than she was expecting instead of the rejection she was feared. [26:51] Any trepidation of fear Erica may have of putting herself out there and exposing her story completely pales in comparison to the relief and satisfaction she gets from hearing how she inspires other women to seek help or feel better about their situation. [31:03] The internet can be both a place to run to during an addiction, and a resource for getting help. RESOURCES Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Out of the Doghouse Cruise Control @EricaDGarza Erica Garza Eat, Pray, Love The Power is Within You Loose Girl

Rob and Tami answer a few of the most common questions that come up frequently. Topics covered include how to know if you or your partner is an addict, porn addiction, catching your male partner looking at male porn and who to reach out to if you need support. TAKEAWAYS: [5:36] How do you know if you or your partner are an addict? Addiction is not defined by how much and what kind, but if your involvement with this behavior affects the functioning of your life. The consequences of an addict’s behavior causes distraction and turmoil and is a driving force in their life. [9:01] For the partner that may suspect they are in a relationship with an addict - trust what you feel, trust what you see, and don’t stop at no. [12:41] Finding out hints about a sexual partner’s life doesn’t mean they are a sexual addict, but it may mean they have something they feel ashamed or fearful to share with you. [13:25] I found my husband or boyfriend looking at male porn or have had sex with men. Is this a threat to our marriage, and will he leave me for a man? This does not automatically mean he will leave you for a man, or that he is homosexual. The first step is having an open conversation, letting him know what you found / saw, and asking him directly what it means to him. [19:04] Who can I talk to or trust with my questions around sex, love and addiction? Is it even important for me to talk to someone? Partners should not underestimate the importance of having a supportive friend, confidant or professional to trust. There are several partner support options, including reaching out to a CSAT, or Certified Sex Addiction Therapist, APSATS, CoDa, and Al-Anon. [25:08] We learn and grow best with problems that are similar to us. RESOURCES Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Out of the Doghouse Cruise Control APSATS CoDa

Rob welcomes friend and colleague Dr. Ken Adams. They discuss signs and examples of mother-enmeshed men and how it relates to sexual addiction and intimacy. problems. Dr. Adams shares his knowledge on the evolution of our sexuality, the steps to emancipation, and some gold nuggets of wisdom on what to expect if you are involved with an enmeshed man. TAKEAWAYS: [1:08] Dr. Ken Adams lives in Michigan and has a thriving practice. His book, Silently Seduced explores how an individual’s relationships with their moms can produce the types of problems that sex addiction creates. Married to Mom to uncover why a man might seem to continually choose his mom over his partner. He began private practice with the Children of Alcoholic Parents Program. There he became interested and devoted to working with sex addiction. [4:11] Enmeshment is a term used in family therapy field to describe when family members are too involved, and the dynamic is too close. When a mother burdens her son with expectations and inappropriate boundaries, the son may begin to feel disloyal when he has other objects of desire. He then acts out and carries out these desires on the side while feeling a tremendous amount of grief and guilt. [8:50] It is the parents job to celebrate the independence and emancipation of their children. On the flip side, it is the son’s responsibility to leave and start their own life with their own partner. [14:53] The evolution of our sexuality is primarily tied to our early care taking experiences. Emotional freedom and having a need for their own space is a running theme that comes up consistently for enmeshed men. [17:28] Emancipation involves two things: external boundaries and an internal structure of how he feels about romance, including the important task of figuring out how to parse out freedom in a commitment. [20:12] The man may project his feelings of being trapped and burdened on to his well-meaning partner, or also be drawn to someone dominating that may pull him away from his mother. [22:02] Our partner choice is not doomed based on how we grew up. It’s an inside job and a “one day at a time” solution for the mother-enmeshed man to observe what makes him feel overwhelmed and trapped, and to turn out obligations when he starts to feel smothered. [29:45] In the sex and love addicted area, females tend to struggle with overt / physical insest, and males covert / emotional insest. RESOURCES Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Out of the Doghouse Cruise Control Silently Seduced Married to Mom Kenneth M. Adams

Welcome to Sex, Love and Addiction 101! Your host, Rob Weiss, is a licensed therapist, sexologist and author of numerous books on sex, relationships and addiction. This podcast is a way to discuss these topics in frank and informative ways. Rob will talk with everyone from experts from around the world to regular people just looking to make their relationships better. In today’s episode, Rob breaks down what sex addiction is, and isn’t. He also discusses the recovery of sex and love addiction, and resources on ways to further expand your education on the topic. TAKEAWAYS [1:17] Sex addiction is a repetitive pattern of using sexual fantasy and behavior as a way to escape difficult feelings or emotions. It is a lifelong struggle, and is not the same thing as sexual orientation or gender identity. [6:29] Rob equates a sex addiction to an eating disorder in the way that we have a primal need, but it can become disruptive and harmful to our normal lives. [8:44] The life of a sex addict ends up being a double life, and many times affection and connection is compartmentalized away from intensity, fantasy and stimulation. [11:36] It is rarely about the partner, and addicts may try to blame their spouse to take some of the distractions away from their own compulsion and need for recovery. [14:19] Sex addicts have a responsibility to work on themselves, get support and commit to recovery. [16:02] Real love is knowing someone fully, and accepting them fully as they are. It takes about two years to truly know and understand who someone is. The love addict looks for these experiences with blinders on to soothe and mask their loneliness, obsession and emptiness. [19:44] Rob explains how sex and love use pleasure to escape reality, and how Intermittent Reinforcement is used to perpetuate this behavior and lose focus of the reality of the situation. [23:55] Being a sex addict does not excuse the behavior, but does mean there is a lot of work to be done in order to clean up their act. RESOURCES Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Out of the Doghouse Cruise Control Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous Out of the Shadows Always Turned On Charlotte Kasl Brenda Schaeffer