Religion on the Mind

In today’s episode, I’m joined by licensed professional counselor Monica DiCristina to explore the question that haunts so many people leaving conservative religious environments: What can I trust about myself? Monica shares her thoughts on navigating the messy reality of learning to trust your own intuition, emotions, and body when you've been taught that authority figures and scripture are the only reliable sources of “knowing.” We swap stories about our own religious upbringings—hers navigating both Spanish Catholicism and 90s evangelicalism—and how anxiety disorders complicated our ability to discern what was "the Holy Spirit" versus our own mental health struggles. We explore how naming your pain is different from naming yourself, why wisdom feels expansive rather than anxious, and how Jesus's command to "love your neighbor as yourself" actually validates self-trust rather than self-abandonment. If you've ever wondered whether you can trust a gut feeling or found yourself paralyzed by the epistemological crisis of our current moment, this conversation offers a refreshingly non-anxious path forward. Monica's Website | Monicadicristina.com ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: [email protected] YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Religion on the News is back — (thanks to our patron Samantha for suggesting that series title!) Mason Mennenga joins me to round up the latest stories from faith, culture, and psychology. After acknowledging the tragedy of the mass shooting in Australia, we segue into the absurdity of Skillet—yes, the massive Christian rock band—getting "criticized" for making their Christmas hymn cover sound too demonic (spoiler: the controversy seems manufactured by two Twitter/X accounts with tiny followings). But this leads us down a fascinating rabbit hole about evangelicalism's century-long panic over music itself, from jazz's "jungle rhythms" to today's active rock, and why conservative Christians keep mistaking their aesthetic preferences for theological truths. Speaking of music, AI-generated gospel music hit #1 on iTunes! We reckon with whether the "art vs. artist" divide holds up when there's no actual artist at all—just algorithms and Auto-Tune's logical endpoint. Finally, we discuss if declining alcohol consumption might actually be terrible news for the American community, drawing on Blue Zones research and my own recent reckoning with using substances to enhance rather than escape. If you've ever wondered whether Process Theology can capitalize on increased cannabis use, why college students don't party anymore, or what it means that we're losing our shared vices without replacing the social functions they served, pour yourself a craft beer (or don't) and listen now. Mason's Website | ⁠Masonmennenga.com ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: [email protected] YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In today’s episode, I’m joined by social psychologist Dr. James Pennebaker from UT Austin to explore an uncomfortable truth: we don't use language to tell the truth—we use it to justify ourselves and protect our egos, whether we're explaining to our spouse why we didn't do the dishes or electing presidents based on confidence rather than facts. We dig into why we're suckers for confident, simple speakers (explaining the rise of figures like Trump and Obama), how wisdom traditions manage to preserve truth despite our constant self-deception, why we've all retreated into communities that confirm our existing beliefs, and whether the 90% of values we actually share can compete with the 10% that's tearing us apart. James brings decades of psychological research to help explain several cultural movements, like how politicians have become less logical but more confident over the past century and how evangelical Christian institutions have trained millions of people to tune out challenging information. We end wrestling with whether AI represents humanity's next great cognitive leap forward or just gives us shinier tools to build more convincing echo chambers—and why the answer might depend entirely on how we choose to use them. James's Faculty Page ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: [email protected] YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to a special episode of GenDERation Gap Culture Hour with Joy Vetterlein bringing a female perspective to the conversation with me, Josh Gilbert and Tony Jones. We launch in with crystals and why religious nones don’t seem to engage in more spiritual practices before we each share our Spotify Wrapped ages (guess who is the oldest?). Tony shares why Hans Zimmer is at the top of his playlist. In the Patron-only second half, Joy airs her grievances with how we’ve discussed Taylor Swift in the past, Dan shares his new nightly ritual of watching the American Revolution docuseries by Ken Burns, and we debate whether patriotism is a right-leaning tradition. ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: [email protected] YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In today’s episode, I’m joined by writer, rabbi, journalist and fellow “weird religious person” Jay Michaelson for a thought-provoking conversation that already has me scheming ways to have him back on the show! We articulate the tension between liberal theology and ecstatic spiritual experience: why do people whose politics we agree with have boring prayer services while the charismatic communities offer genuine transcendence amidst their rigid theology? Jay opens up about overcoming his own "Christophobia" (yes, he wrote an article called "How I Finally Came to Accept Christ in My Heart"), and we dig into his concept of "small-r religion"—the intentional, piecemeal approach to meaning-making that liberal religious folks practice versus capital-R traditional religion. It gets juicy as we wrestle with whether this progressive, open-minded approach can actually compete with conservative religion's appeal in our current moment of nihilism and meaning crisis. Can pluralistic spirituality be effective at fighting back against the wide road of AI slop, economic despair, and rising authoritarianism?? I push back on Jay's darker assessments while he challenges my therapeutic optimism, and we land somewhere fascinating between acceptance, the narrow road, and what we can actually control. This one covers everything from Buddhist meditation to Trump to whether my hypothetical gay Christian clients need liberal churches. I hope you enjoy. Jay's Substack | Both/And with Jay Michaelson Jay's Book "God vs. Gay? The Reli­gious Case for Equality" Jay's Website | Jaymichaelson.net ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: [email protected] YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I sit down with Dr. Nathan Carlin, professor of medical humanities and author of The Secularization of Medicine, to explore his fascinating thesis that doctors have become the new priests of secular society. We trace how this shift began—from medieval cathedrals as the highest points in European cities to modern hospital skylines dominating places like Houston's Texas Medical Center, where people now make pilgrimages seeking salvation of the body rather than the soul. Nathan walks me through the historical intertwining of religion and medicine, from the original Hippocratic Oath invoking Apollo to the 1850s when the American Medical Association's code explicitly grounded medical ethics in religion, and how the 1960s-70s brought radical secularization alongside movements for patient rights and autonomy. We explore the moral complexities of medical decision-making through the haunting case of Dax, a burn victim who consistently demanded to die but was kept alive by doctors who believed they knew best, and examine Canada's controversial Medical Assistance in Dying (MAID) program, which now accounts for one in twenty deaths. Our conversation explores the tension between patient autonomy and other moral values, the vulnerability inherent in the doctor-patient relationship that mirrors the confessional booth, and why psychedelic research needs the institutional prestige of places like Johns Hopkins to gain legitimacy—a perfect example of medicine functioning as the new church. In the Patron-only second half, we discuss cases of medical fraud, vaccine skepticism and institutional trust, and why medicine needs practices of confession and forgiveness to repair the mistrust that plagues healthcare today. Dr. Carlin's Book | The Secularization of Medicine: Ritual, Salvation, and Prophecy Dr. Carlin's Faculty Page | Med.uth.edu/oep/nathan-carlin-ph-d ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: [email protected] YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We ease into today’s topic with a Top of Mind segment on two competing narratives: does having children make the future better? Or worse? From right-leaning fears of population collapse to left-leaning concerns about overpopulation and climate impact, both arguments rely on catastrophizing about opposing dystopian predictions, and I myself have not been immune to them. For our main interview, I’m joined by Kevin Kelly, founding editor of Wired magazine and author of the "thousand true fans" theory (yes, that Kevin Kelly), to explore his concept of "protopia"—a vision of the future that's neither utopian nor dystopian, but rather a steady 1-2% improvement compounded over time. We get into the weeds on process theology, the cosmic Christ appearing on trillions of planets, why we'll need a "catechism for robots" within 100 years, and how AI might actually make us better humans by forcing us to codify what "better than us" even means. Kevin's technological optimism isn't naive—he fully acknowledges that more powerful technologies create more powerful problems—but he argues our capacity to solve problems consistently outpaces our ability to create them, and that technology itself carries something divine in how it expands the possibility space for human flourishing. From personal anxiety about parenthood to cosmic theology to the future of consciousness itself—this is exactly the kind of conversation we love to have on this show. Kevin Kelly's Website | Kk.org Article Mentions: https://skepticalscience.com/moving-away-high-end-emission-scenarios.html?utm_source=chatgpt.com ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: [email protected] YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In the continuation of this series examining how cognitive distortions impact our religious beliefs and experiences, I'm diving into one of the most pervasive distortions with returning guest Molly LaCroix: jumping to conclusions. This thinking error shows up everywhere: in our relationships (Molly shares a perfect personal example involving this very podcast), our therapy practices, and especially in religious contexts. I break down the difference between evidence-based thinking and filling voids with negative assumptions, examining everything from Job's misguided friends to prosperity gospel theology. We tackle some genuinely sticky questions: What's the difference between jumping to conclusions and taking a leap of faith? How do we hold beliefs provisionally while maintaining committed faith? And when does this cognitive distortion cross into spiritual abuse territory? Drawing from evolutionary psychology, Christian tradition, and wisdom from Buddhism, Hinduism, and Islam, we land on something surprisingly hopeful—that both good therapy and ancient religious wisdom point us toward the same antidote: slow down, seek fuller information, and approach others with curiosity rather than suspicion. Whether you're a therapist, a person of faith navigating deconstruction, or just someone who wants to stop catastrophizing every time a sent text goes unanswered, this conversation offers practical tools wrapped in deeper existential questions about certainty, ambiguity, and what it means to truly have faith. Molly's Website | ⁠Mollylacroix.com Un-Shaming Each Part of Ourselves (#197) Episode #123 with Heather Griffin | "Bible Truths," "Sanctified Common Sense," & "Evangelical Insta-Trust" ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: [email protected] YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We’re back with another Generation Gap Culture Hour featuring myself, Tony Jones and Josh Gilbert all representing our different generational viewpoints. As is our regular dynamic, this one kicks off with Tony disagreeing with something I say. We quickly get into discussing whether genetic analysis of historical figures like Hitler (yes, they sequenced his DNA from blood on a couch) actually tells us anything meaningful. Tony is skeptical, but I think the connection between genetics and legacy is fascinating in how it informs our understanding of nature versus nurture. We debate about whether or not the word "pedophile" is being misused in coverage of the Epstein files, and why precision in language matters even when discussing despicable people. We cleanse our palates with meditative bushcraft videos served up by my five-year-old’s YouTube algorithm. In the Patreon-only second half we finish our discussion on the re-emergence of "pedophile" into public discourse, debate whether modern guys are too self-conscious about nudity in locker rooms (with Tony lamenting his gym now requires swimsuits in the hot tub), and I somehow end up moderating while Tony and Josh argue about whether co-ed locker rooms would have more or fewer social norms. ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: [email protected] YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Definitely don’t play this one with kids around! I’m sitting down with journalist Ellen Huet to explore the rise and fall of OneTaste, a San Francisco wellness startup that built an empire around "orgasmic meditation"—a 15-minute sexual practice wrapped in spiritual language and trademark Silicon Valley business savvy. Ellen, who wrote the exposé that helped trigger an FBI investigation and whose book Empire of Orgasm releases tomorrow, walks me through how founder Nicole Dadone created a company that promised enlightenment through sexuality, borrowed heavily from Buddhist and tantric traditions (while naming their practice "OM"), and attracted a devoted following among tech workers and entrepreneurs. We get deep into the “ick” of how spirituality, commerce, and exploitation all worked together, discussing how implicit manipulation can be more powerful than explicit demands, why people stayed despite red flags, and how OneTaste's playbook mirrors both traditional cult dynamics and the modern wellness influencer industrial complex. From "unconditional sex" experiments to forced labor convictions, this conversation reveals how spiritual abuse operates in startup culture and why the future of cult-like control might look less like rural communes and more like your Instagram feed. Fair warning: this episode includes frank discussion of sexual practices and exploitation. ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: [email protected] YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Matthew Burdette—Episcopal priest, theologian, and editor—joins me for a wide-ranging conversation about theology and culture. We cover a little bit of everything in this one! Matthew begins by telling me about his theology of culture, and how his approach allows God to remain distinct from culture while still being relevant to everything. We look at how both liberal and conservative Christianity can fail when they focus too much on either human goodness or human sinfulness. Matthew also challenges common assumptions about power and privilege, arguing that gestures like land acknowledgments or other virtue signals can often mask—rather than address—real authority, and we wrestle with thorny questions about immigration, marriage, and what it means to bear the "cross" of Christian ethics in a world of undeniable trade-offs. In the Patron-only second half, we discuss how paternalism—from COVID policies to climate change messaging to my own admitted tendency to peoples tendency to manage others anxiety for them—undermining both personal relationships and democratic governance. Matt's Substack | Matthewburdette.substack.com ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: [email protected] YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm sitting down with my friend of 12 years, Sara Billups, to talk about her brand new book Nervous Systems—and all the many meanings implied in its title. We start with how anxiety gets passed down through generations. Sara shares about her wonderfully neurotic Jewish father and frequent medical “scares” that shaped her nervous system before she could even articulate a worry. But this isn't just another Seinfeld episode or therapy session about family patterns—Sara takes us into how anxiety operates at three interconnected levels: our individual bodies, the church body that's absorbed America's cultural panic instead of offering an alternative, and our body politic that's turned every election into an apocalypse. Sara introduces me to a counterintuitive Jesuit practice called "holy indifference" that she discovered through nine months of Ignatian spiritual exercises, which maps perfectly onto OCD treatment principles. We wrestle with impossible questions like whether progressive Christians should keep reaching across the aisle to conservatives when the stakes feel existential and whether learning to lose—politically, personally, physically—might be the only way to stay sane in a world that's convinced every loss is the end of democracy. Sarah's Book | Nervous Systems: Spiritual Practices to Calm Anxiety in Your Body, the Church, and Politics Sarah's Substack | BITTER SCROLL Sarah's Podcast | That's The Spirit Previous Episode with Sara | Orphaned by Evangelicalism (#175) ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: [email protected] YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today I’m joined by my brother-in-law Cameron Reed and fellow therapist Gabe Cortez to explore fiction through the lens of psychology and spirituality. We’re planning a series of conversations on Religion & Fiction in which we look at literary short stories and make the case for why fiction matters—not as escapism, but as an essential way of understanding ourselves, building empathy, and accessing truths that nonfiction simply can't reach. We start by discussing the benefits of fiction broadly and how stories allow us to experience and reflect on life. We get into how reading fiction has shaped our understanding of everything from sibling relationships to spiritual experience, as well as Jesus’ preference for parables over doctrine. To set the scene for today’s short story, I share an embarrassing college-era memory of coming home to lecture my mom about selling her jewelry after reading Howard Zinn, and Cam and Gabe confess their own pretentious homecoming moments as well. Then we turn to Alice Walker's brilliant 1973 short story "Everyday Use," dissecting a family drama about quilts, heritage, and what it truly means to revere the sacred objects of our past—a story that hits differently when you've been the know-it-all child returning home with new ideas about God, justice, and the world. In the Patron-only second portion of the episode, we apply these ideas directly to Walker's story, exploring themes of incarnational theology, appropriation versus appreciation, and the quiet transformation of the story's most overlooked character. Free Copy of the Short Story | Everyday Use by Alice Walker ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: [email protected] YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It’s a Religion News Roundup with podcaster and theologian Mason Mennenga, where we discuss the latest in religion-related current events. In this first episode trying out this new format, we explore why young people seem more open to spirituality than millennials were at their age, discuss clergy getting pepper-sprayed while protesting ICE detention centers, and unpack the wild story of gay billionaire Peter Thiel giving ticketed lectures about the Antichrist in San Francisco. We also chuckle at biblical comedy series called The Promised Land and analyze the surprising data showing Gen Z might be flattening the secularization curve. Along the way, Mason and I test our friendship with jokes about his far-left politics versus my centrist tendencies, debate whether progressive Christianity is just politics in disguise, and somehow end up discussing why good climate news isn't making headlines. We also discover that Mason's faith actually drives his politics more than I expected, and I admit my own confidence in eschatological hope has diminished over the years. It's a wide-ranging conversation that's equal parts serious theological reflection on current events and playful banter between two friends who've finally matured enough to publicly podcast together. Mason's Website | Masonmennenga.com Articles Mentioned: https://religionnews.com/2025/10/21/is-there-religious-revival-among-gen-z/ https://thepromisedlandseries.tv/ https://religionnews.com/2025/10/21/after-clergy-arrests-religious-pushback-to-ice-expands-in-chicago/ https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/oct/10/peter-thiel-lectures-antichrist?utm_source=chatgpt.com ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: [email protected] YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I sit down with musician John Mark McMillan for an exclusive conversation about something I never thought I'd see—one of contemporary Christian music's most boundary-pushing artists stepping away from the touring life after nearly 20 years on the road. What starts as a discussion about the brutal economics of modern music—the streaming pennies, the oversaturated venue landscape, the mounting tour costs—quickly becomes something richer: a meditation on what music is actually for. John Mark shares about a wild night in a Belfast pub where strangers went from wanting to fight him to nearly kissing him (he declined), and how this experience crystallizes his vision for what comes next. We explore why performing the same song 50 times for 50 different crowds might be less transformative than gathering the same people in the same room week after week, why the death of the album as an art form matters, and what it looks like to trade reach for depth. If you've ever wondered whether the music industry's evolution has cost us something essential about human connection—or if you're just curious what makes an artist walk away from the only income they've known since 2006—this conversation will give you plenty to think about. Johnmarkmcmillan.com Previous Episodes with John: (#270) John Mark McMillan: Faith & Doubt (#316) Redefining Success with John Mark McMillan & Thomas Torrey ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: [email protected] YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Here's a little update after our weekend in St. Paul, MN for Theology Beer Camp 2025. See you on Monday with our regular episode! ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: [email protected] YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm launching a new series diving deep into cognitive distortions—those sneaky thinking errors we all fall into—and exploring how they show up at the intersection of psychology and religion. In this first episode, I tackle "Should/Must statements" with research psychologist Laird Edman. We go way beyond the therapy textbooks to explore how these rigid internal rules can either guide us toward our values or trap us in cycles of shame and perfectionism, examine why our brains evolved to be so rule-obsessed in the first place, and dig into the messy territory of spiritual abuse, purity culture, and religious scrupulosity. We also venture into how different faith traditions—from Orthodox Judaism to Islam to Christianity—grapple with the balance between divine standards and human fallibility. Whether you're wrestling with unrealistic expectations in your faith community, trying to understand OCD and religious anxiety, or just curious about finding that sweet spot between perfectionism and permissiveness, this conversation offers both psychological insight and practical tools for a more grace-filled approach to life. Plus, Laird shares some surprisingly vulnerable stories about altar calls and guitar playing that'll make you rethink what "good enough" really means. Laird's Website | ⁠Lairdedman.com⁠ ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: [email protected] YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I sit down with John Hawthorne, retired Christian university sociology professor and author of The Fearless Christian University, to unpack the troubling martyrdom narrative emerging around Charlie Kirk's assassination. We explore how Kirk is being weaponized as an icon by Christian nationalist ambassadors while everyday adherents struggle to make sense of senseless violence through familiar theological frameworks. John and I compare the Kirk situation to George Floyd—not as moral equivalents, but as examples of how viral footage of violent deaths gets absorbed into competing political narratives that say more about our fractured media ecosystem than the victims themselves. We dig into why evangelicals are particularly susceptible to martyrdom narratives (suffering must have divine purpose), how the attention economy incentivizes crisis merchants on both left and right, and why the complete breakdown of shared civic discourse leaves people feeling they have no choice but to retreat into their tribal identities. The conversation gets uncomfortably honest about how both sides manufacture heroes from tragedy, and why understanding the psychology of the adherents—our neighbors, family members, and clients—matters more than dissecting the cynical ambassadors orchestrating it all. ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: [email protected] YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You Have Permission is now Religion on the Mind! Look for our updated artwork in your podcast feed and listen to this episode for more about what you can expect with the new name. In this episode, I sit down with Zoë Bernard, a writer and journalist who wrote a fascinating piece about Christianity's surprising resurgence in Silicon Valley. I share my own experience growing up evangelical in the Valley during the dot-com era—a time when religion, especially Christianity, felt distinctly uncool in tech circles. Zoë and I explore how dramatically things have shifted: where tech leaders once kept their faith quiet or embraced new atheism, figures like Peter Thiel and Elon Musk now publicly identify with Christianity, and startups in places like El Segundo are hosting Bible studies. We dig into what's driving this change—from the moral complexity of working in AI and defense tech, to the perceived failures of "wokeism" as a secular replacement for religion, to the hollow feeling many successful tech workers experience despite their wealth. I push back on some of the tensions I see between Silicon Valley's uber-capitalism and Jesus's actual economic teachings, while Zoë offers insights from her time embedded with young Christian entrepreneurs who are reshaping tech culture. We close by considering how AI might fundamentally alter spirituality itself—a conversation we'll definitely need to continue. Zoe's Website | Zoe-bernard.com Zoe's Article | https://archive.vanityfair.com/article/2025/4/god-complex ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: [email protected] YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It’s a new name, new art… and the rest is pretty much the same content you know and love on the overlap of psychology, religion and spirituality. My teammates Josh Gilbert and Joy Vetterlein join me for a quick chat about our rebrand of this podcast (It’s a glow-up, but Dan wants everyone to know those are Joy’s words and not his words). We talk about why the change now, what it represents in the context of the culture at large and share about upcoming series and episodes in the works. Listen in and keep an eye out for new artwork in your podcast feed! ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: [email protected] Religion on the Mind Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by Nick Luevano Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Friend of the pod Tripp Fuller joins me in full Dodgers gear (the audacity!) to discuss why the doctrine of original sin desperately needs a comeback—not the toxic version that told us we couldn't trust our own emotions or experiences, but a robust theological framework that actually explains the mess we're living in. We unpack how the concept of original sin operates on three interconnected levels: individual, communal, and structural. We tear apart Augustine's outdated biology while rescuing his psychological insights, trace the snowball effect of violence from Cain's first murder through the Tower of Babel, and discover why progressive Christians who rail against systemic injustice are actually doing theology whether they realize it or not. Along the way, we somehow manage to argue about Sam Harris, the military-industrial complex, global capitalism, and whether America is an evil empire or just another flawed superpower trying not to blow up the world. If you've ever wondered why humans keep doing terrible things despite our best intentions, or why your evangelical upbringing left you allergic to the very doctrine that might actually help you understand structural oppression, this conversation is for you. Come to Theology Beer Camp 2025 Listen to Homebrewed Christianity ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: [email protected] YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Attention YHP Listeners: Starting in October, the podcast You Have Permission will change its name to Religion on the Mind. This rebrand will come with new artwork and focus more broadly on the overlap of Psychology, Religion & Spirituality. We look forward to telling you more in the coming days… stay tuned! I sit down with previous guest Matt Naylor from the Milkless podcast to explore a disturbing pattern he discovered through a simple Google experiment: searching for public figures known for embracing violence and cruelty, then adding "father" to see what emerges. From Elon Musk to Joe Rogan to JD Vance, the batting average for abuse, abandonment, and alcoholism is striking. We dig into the neuroscience behind early childhood attachment, examining how those first six months of life literally wire our brains for how we perceive safety in the world. Matt shares research on rat mothers who groom their babies differently and how those early experiences shape everything from stress response to longevity—findings that translate directly to human development. We explore the unique roles fathers play in transmitting worldview and values, diving into attachment research that shows father-child relationships are particularly crucial for managing externalizing behaviors like aggression and rule-breaking. The conversation takes a personal turn as Matt reflects on his own family history and his determination to raise daughters who see the world as an enchanted place full of wonder rather than a threatening landscape requiring constant vigilance. The episode weaves together cutting-edge brain science, attachment theory, and deeply personal reflection on what it means to be a father in an increasingly polarized world. Take It Offline Question: What things do you find that you feel in your body about the world that don't line up with the way you wish you felt about the world? Milkless Podcast Child-father attachment and behavior problems (NIH) Christian Century interview with Vern Bengston about fathers and religious transmission to children ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: [email protected] YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this week’s Top of Mind segment, I address the Charlie Kirk assassination through cognitive distortions, calling out the all-or-nothing thinking that's turning him into either a blessed martyr or democracy's destroyer when the reality is more nuanced. I also push back against the dangerous idea that speech equals violence, pointing out that Kirk's murder serves as a stark reminder that actual bullets—not words—constitute real violence. For this week’s main episode, I’m going solo. I start by sharing how my own faith deconstruction included grappling with evolution. From questioning young earth creationism to eventually embracing evolutionary theory by my late twenties, and how evolution informs my therapeutic practice. Then, I go into how psychology has fully embraced evolutionary explanations across five key areas: attachment theory (which appears across species and helped our ancestors survive through bonding), shame (as an evolved social conscience that keeps us aligned with group norms), sexual jealousy (as mate-guarding behavior found throughout the animal kingdom), anxiety (as an overactive alarm system that kept our ancestors alive through hypervigilance), and depression (as either energy conservation during adverse conditions or analytical rumination for solving complex problems.) These evolutionary frameworks help reduce client shame by showing that their struggles aren't personal defects but rather ancient survival systems that are now mismatched to our modern world. In the Patreon-only portion, I dive deeper into attachment research with macaques, the neuroscience of shame and anxiety across species, mate-guarding behaviors from chimpanzees to humans, and two competing theories of depression—the hibernation model and analytical rumination hypothesis. Episodes Mentioned: Episode with Adrian Wyard | To Accept Theistic Evolution (#2) To Trust Science (#28) Evolution Myths & Long Lifespans in Genesis (#36) Who’s Afraid of Evolutionary Psychology? (#47) ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: [email protected] YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My fellow Beach Boys fan and returning guest David Zahl is back to discuss his provocative critique of self-optimization culture in his Plough Quarterly piece "Against Self-Optimization.” As someone who has maximized my morning routine to a science, I wrestle with my own efficiency obsession and David's argument that our machine-like language and relentless pursuit of becoming "optimized" versions of ourselves is fundamentally dehumanizing. We look at how Jesus wasn't particularly efficient, how the wellness industry monetizes our unhappiness, and whether there's a difference between optimization and ruthless efficiency. Along the way, we touch on everything from Daft Punk's "Harder Better Faster Stronger" to the theology of death, the loneliness epidemic, and why churches that function too seamlessly might actually be missing the point. David brings his characteristically poetic perspective to counter my more prose-like approach, creating a conversation that challenges both the Silicon Valley promise of endless self-improvement and the Christian concept of becoming our "ideal selves" — while somehow managing to work in references to Beach Boys, Radiohead, and why AI should do our laundry, not write our books. David's Piece Against Optimization David's Books Songs Played: Me Without You | "Red Cow & Dorothy" Daft Punk | Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: [email protected] YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I sit down with licensed therapist Emily Maynard—herself a product of Dobson-influenced parenting—to unpack what I'm calling one of the most consequential psychological disasters of the last fifty years. While James Dobson's death a few weeks ago has evangelicals reflecting on his legacy, Emily and I dig into the wreckage his teachings left in therapy offices across America. We explore how his "loving discipline" and will-breaking methods created attachment wounds, spiritual abuse, and shame cycles that adults are still untangling decades later—and why parents who would never have hit their children became convinced it was the most loving thing they could do. Emily brings both clinical expertise and personal experience to bear on questions that hit close to home: How do you heal from authoritarian parenting that was sold as godly love? What happens when the very people meant to be your safe harbor become sources of fear? And perhaps most importantly—what do we carry forward, and what do we finally have permission to leave behind? Emily's Website | ⁠Emilymaynardtherapy.com⁠ Emily's Instagram | ⁠@Emilymaynardlmft⁠ ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: [email protected] YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

He’s out from behind the green curtain! In this episode, my guest is none other than my producer and audio/editor wizard, Josh Gilbert. Josh spends about 23 hours per week listening to conversations on religion, psychology, and deconstruction. He joins me to tell how this work has fundamentally changed his worldview and sense of self. For Josh, this immersive listening experience has made it nearly impossible for him to be surprised by new ideas and has pushed him towards comedy and entertainment for palette cleansing. He tells the story of attending both Black Lives Matter protests and police ride-alongs, and shares how listening has transformed his capacity for empathy and given him the ability to see multiple perspectives. We dive into the psychology of repetition, the nature of intellectual humility, and how Josh's journey through religious scrupulosity and OCD diagnosis has intersected with his unique vantage point as someone who absorbs thousands of hours of other people's spiritual and psychological processing—without being able to contribute his own voice to the conversation. In the Patron-only portion, we wrestle with the deeper questions of religious belief—Josh arguing that we inevitably construct our beliefs from our experiences rather than discovering objective truth, while I explore whether there's a defensible middle path where following Jesus's teachings remains worthwhile even if I'm entirely wrong about the metaphysical claims of Christianity. ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: [email protected] YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this week’s episode of You Have Permission, I sit down with Dr. Richard B. Miller, Professor Emeritus from the University of Chicago Divinity School, to tackle his blunt question (and the title of his book): Why Study Religion? What starts as a defense against critics like Sam Harris—who'd rather we just stick to the "straight dope" of science—quickly spirals into something much more provocative: religion as the ultimate training ground for navigating our hypermediated, pluralistic world where we're drowning in conflicting authorities and information overload. Miller argues that religious studies isn't just academic navel-gazing but a crucial skill-building exercise in what he calls "post-critical reasoning," teaching us to hold multiple worldviews in tension without falling into either fundamentalist certainty or relativistic paralysis. We discuss why the secularization hypothesis got it wrong, how contemplative traditions across religions offer surprising resources for the ecological crisis, and why understanding the religious "wackadoodles" (my term, not his) might be the key to actually changing minds rather than just preaching to the choir. By the end, I'm wrestling with my own biases about expanding this podcast beyond Christianity, and you'll be questioning whether your discomfort with religion says more about the world's problems or your own assumptions about how to solve them. Richard's Book | Why Religion Matters? ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: [email protected] YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Last week I hosted a live Q&A session for our Patrons—one of the perks that comes with a YHP Patreon membership (now on sale for 42% off an annual subscription with code BIRTHDAY). We spent a good portion of the time talking about the concept of “audience capture” and this podcast in particular, and whether I've been shaped by what my listeners want to hear rather than staying true to my own interests and convictions. I admit I might be constitutionally allergic to giving people what they want and may be too resistant to audience preferences rather than captured by them—while another member suggests that my contrarian nature might itself be a form of audience capture! Other questions come up about the experience of hosting a podcast— how I handle criticism, my defensive tendency to avoid listening to podcasters who do what I want to do better than me, and the raw envy I feel when I see smaller podcasts outperforming mine. We also get into the Internal Family Systems modality of therapy, which sparked a rich discussion about this approach to understanding different "parts" of ourselves. In the Patreon-only portion, we continue the IFS discussion with input from trained therapists, discuss the challenges and benefits of having podcast listeners as therapy clients (including awkward moments when they look me up!), and field questions about work-life balance, religious traditions, and personal experiences with various therapy modalities. Thanks to all of you who came… and hope to see the rest of you soon! ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: [email protected] YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It’s the last week of my 42nd birthday sale! Become an Annual Member of my Patreon now for just around $4 a month. Also, I'm now taking therapy clients in Washington State and coaching clients nationwide, specializing in religious transitions and life changes that intersect with faith journeys. More info here. In this week’s “Top of Mind” segment, I reflect on the legacy of Dr. James Dobson, a prominent figure in evangelical psychology and parenting advice; highlighting some things Dobson got right, as well as areas where his teachings have caused great harm. I discuss Dobson's influence on conservative Christian views, critique some of his psychological perspectives, and evaluate the accuracy of his claims and evaluate the accuracy of his claims regarding queer sexuality, “secular humanism” in modern psychology, and his most influential area: parenting and discipline. In today’s main interview (beginning around min 33), comedian Jeremy Alder is here to discuss his journey from fundamentalist homeschooling in Texas to stand-up comedy. Jeremy brings sharp wit and genuine theological insight as we trace his path from a prosperity gospel upbringing through youth group dropout years, then back to faith via Augustine's Confessions and Reformed University Fellowship at UT Austin. Now, Jeremy blends Eastern Orthodox spirituality with liberation theology while creating his "Christians That Don't Suck" video series that highlights radical Christian figures fighting against what he calls "Confederate fascist Christianity." We explore how his philosophy and religion background shaped both his comedy and his current pursuit of a degree to work with religious trauma survivors, the practical realities of changing careers in your forties with five kids, and making the leap into creative work that challenges both conservative Christians and secular audiences. Jeremy's Website | Jeremyalder.com ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: [email protected] YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My 42nd birthday sale is LIVE! Join as an Annual Member of my Patreon to get 42% off through September 1 and enjoy ad-free access to Patron-exclusive content like this! In today’s bonus episode, team member Joy Vetterlein and I tackle what might be the most commonly given piece of marriage advice at wedding receptions: "don't go to bed angry." After seeing comedian Leanne Morgan flip this conventional wisdom on its head during a Colbert appearance, we dive into why this advice became so popular in mid-20th century America through the "infection model" of marital conflict, explore what modern neuroscience tells us about arguing while dysregulated (hint: your prefrontal cortex isn't working very well at a 7+ on the anger scale), and discover that the original biblical verse this advice comes from had absolutely nothing to do with marriage. I share my practical "rule of sevens" for knowing when to table an argument, and confess to being the type of person who will hijack wedding videographers to give counter-programming relationship advice. In the Patreon portion, Joy and I get personal about our own marriages, including her revelation about needing to give herself permission to consider divorce in order to truly choose her marriage, and we explore a 7th-century monk's surprisingly modern insights about anger as spiritual energy. ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: [email protected] YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Get 42% off a YHP annual Patreon membership, while we celebrate Dan’s 42nd birthday! (Ends Sept 1st) ~Use code “BIRTHDAY”~ It’s time for another Generation Gap Culture Hour (Full Episode Special), where Dan Koch sits down with Tony Jones and Josh Gilbert to peel back some layers about self-reflection, media habits, and big financial decisions, all through their differing generational perspectives. ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: [email protected] YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My friend James Wightman joins me to tell me about What Would Jesus Sell? a documentary he's been working on for eight years about the Christian music industry. We get into how Christian music evolved from the genuine DIY spirit of the 1970s Jesus Movement into today's sanitized, focus-grouped machine that prioritizes “Becky” (the industry's target demographic of exhausted soccer moms) over artistic integrity. James reveals the open secrets everyone in green rooms and tour buses has whispered about for years, explains why the incentive structures actually punish authenticity while rewarding conformity, and shares how his own journey led him to realize that both artists and consumers are trapped in an exploitative system that uses spiritual language to sell us baby food when we're starving for a real meal. He also shares some insider perspective on the recent allegations against Michael Tait. It's a conversation about art, faith, commerce, and what happens when you try to package the sacred for mass consumption. James on Instagram | @James.final.mp4 Walk Me Through Jesus Movement Music '67-'79 (Part 1) ⁠Walk Me Through Jesus Movement Music '67-'79 (Part 2) ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: [email protected] YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sarah Lane Ritchie is back for our final Shiny Happy People discussion from Season 2 of the Amazon docuseries. Sarah opens with a delightfully unhinged question about whether I've ever been exorcised (spoiler: I haven't, but Sarah casually drops that she's had "many, many" attempted exorcisms like it's no big deal). We then tear into episode three's heavy-handed turn toward political fearmongering that had even us progressive-leaning viewers rolling our eyes at their irresponsible psychoanalytic claims about Ron Luce and bristling at the lack of journalistic integrity while declaring existential threats to democracy. Behind the Patreon paywall, Sarah makes her compelling academic case for why Honor Academy functioned as a cult (it checks pretty much every box), we dive deep into my spiritual abuse research and how multiple subtypes show up in the Teen Mania system, and we wrestle with the genuinely difficult question of how much "collateral damage" might be acceptable when intense religious experiences create both profound meaning and lasting trauma for different people. ⁠⁠Watch Shiny Happy People Season 2⁠⁠ Sarah's Website | ⁠⁠⁠Sarahlaneritchie.net⁠⁠⁠ YHP Episodes on Season 1: ⁠⁠Shiny Happy People: Did Bill Gothard Create Pedophiles? (#198)⁠⁠ ⁠⁠Shiny Happy People: Are Children Born Evil? (#200)⁠⁠ ⁠⁠Shiny Happy People: Was Bill Gothard A Cult Leader? (#202)⁠⁠ ⁠⁠Is "Shiny Happy People" Anti-Religion? (#204)⁠ ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: [email protected] YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Top of Mind: I start this episode by addressing the recent report from Baptist News Global regarding former guest Dr. Laura E. Anderson, a well-known therapist and coach in the religious trauma world, detailing ethical board sanctioning and other complaints by her associates. Main Interview (Adam joins at 6:45): Licensed therapist and Place We Find Ourselves podcast host Adam Young joins me to explore how our childhood stories quite literally shape our brains—and why telling those stories accurately matters more than we might think. We dig into Adam's narrative and body-focused therapeutic approach, which complements my own cognitive work by emphasizing how our neural networks wire together through early relational experiences with primary caregivers. We discuss why truth-telling orients us with reality in ways that reduce shame and self-contempt, explore the neuroscience behind why we can't simply suppress difficult emotions (spoiler: your amygdala has other plans), and examine how attachment patterns from ages 2-3 continue influencing our adult relationships through fight-flight-freeze responses. Adam introduces the concept of "blessing our younger selves" as distinct from the popular notion of "reparenting," drawing on Internal Family Systems theory to help us understand the different parts within us that need attention. Take it Offline: Take this conversation beyond the solo podcast experience into real community with friends and ask each other: "Where do you find yourself most laboring under accusation?" He explains that all of us live with self-contempt and feel accusation about various aspects of our lives throughout our days — our parenting, our relationships, our habits, our compulsions, who we are and how we show up in the world. This vulnerable but powerful question can help bring kindness into areas that are exhausting and are often suffered in silence and alone. Adam's Website | ⁠Adamyoungcounseling.com⁠ Adam's Book | ⁠Make Sense of Your Story: Why Engaging Your Past with Kindness Changes Everything⁠ Related Episodes: Episode #197 - "Un-Shaming Each Part of Ourselves" with Molly LaCroixEpisode #333 - "The Science of Social Connection" with Julia Hotz Episode #337 - "The 'Middle Path' in Politics & Purity Culture" with Dr. Camden Morgante ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: [email protected] YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In today's episode, I'm diving back into the deep end with theologian and philosopher of science Sarah Lane Ritchie for part two of our response to the Shiny Happy People docuseries, focusing on episode two's unflinching look at Teen Mania's Honor Academy. We start by exploring one of the most psychologically complex aspects of growing up in end-times evangelical culture: the expectation that your life might be cut short—whether through martyrdom, the rapture, or other apocalyptic events. Sarah and I unpack how this shaped our teenage years differently, with her wrestling with anxiety about "making the cut" for the rapture while I was more concerned about missing out on earthly experiences before Jesus returned. We examine how this worldview creates two distinct buckets of spiritual trauma, and I introduce what I call "the jihad test"—a thought experiment about how we'd want someone to escape coercive religious indoctrination if they were born into a jihadist group, and why those same critical thinking tools should be available to all young people in high-demand religious environments. In the Patreon portion, we dig deeper into the militaristic aspects of Honor Academy, the psychology of high-demand religious groups, listener feedback about Bible smuggling and mission trip costs, and the complex relationship between traditional masculinity and evangelical theology. ⁠Watch Shiny Happy People Season 2⁠ Sarah's Website | ⁠⁠Sarahlaneritchie.net⁠⁠ Patreon Only Episode : ⁠Martyrdom Expectations YHP Episodes on Season 1: ⁠Shiny Happy People: Did Bill Gothard Create Pedophiles? (#198)⁠ ⁠Shiny Happy People: Are Children Born Evil? (#200)⁠ ⁠Shiny Happy People: Was Bill Gothard A Cult Leader? (#202)⁠ ⁠Is "Shiny Happy People" Anti-Religion? (#204)⁠ ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: [email protected] YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm joined again by my dear friend Sarah Lane Ritchie, theologian and scholar of science and religion, for the first of three episodes responding to the new season of Amazon's Shiny Happy People docuseries. This season shifts focus from the Duggar family to Teen Mania—arguably the biggest religious youth phenomenon of the late 20th century with a three-tier pipeline: Acquire the Fire stadium events that functioned like teenage Billy Graham crusades, Global Expeditions mission trips where kids raised thousands to evangelize abroad, and the Honor Academy internship program that took on cult-like characteristics. Sarah shares her profound personal journey beginning at age 13 at the pivotal "Day One" event with 70,000 attendees at the Pontiac Silverdome just days after Columbine, leading to transformative month-long mission trips to Ghana and Bolivia that shaped her entire academic career. We examine the sophisticated psychological mechanisms at play—from Durkheimian collective effervescence to high-stakes eternal damnation theology that made extreme actions feel necessary, the integration of Josh Harris's purity culture teachings that redirected teenage sexuality toward spiritual eroticism, and how the apocalyptic urgency created a manufactured crisis that made everything else seem trivial. This episode sets the stage for deeper dives into Global Expeditions and the troubling Honor Academy cult dynamics in our upcoming conversations, illuminating how spiritual technology shapes young lives in ways that are simultaneously transformative and potentially harmful. Watch Shiny Happy People Season 2 Sarah's Website | ⁠Sarahlaneritchie.net⁠ YHP Episodes on Season 1: Shiny Happy People: Did Bill Gothard Create Pedophiles? (#198) Shiny Happy People: Are Children Born Evil? (#200) Shiny Happy People: Was Bill Gothard A Cult Leader? (#202) Is "Shiny Happy People" Anti-Religion? (#204) ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: [email protected] YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Dan kicks off the episode with a new segment, Top of Mind, focused this week on former President Obama’s entry into the discourse around struggles currently faced by men and boys in the US and elsewhere: education, mental health, employment, suicide, overdoses, and identity concerns. He highlights the overlap between main points made by Obama and YHP topics, as well as gender discrepancies in therapy utilization. Richard Reeves Substack Post⁠ ⁠Obama Podcast Appearance⁠ For the main episode, I sit down with Dr. Camden Morgante, licensed psychologist and author of Recovering from Purity Culture, to explore the revolutionary concept of dialectical thinking—finding the "both/and" instead of "either/or"—as an alternative to the black-and-white thinking that dominates evangelical culture, politics, and even purity culture recovery movements. We dive into practical applications like developing a "values-congruent sexual ethic" that transcends both shame-based purity culture and consent-only frameworks, discuss the real costs of walking the middle path in our polarized world (canceled interviews, lost relationships, professional challenges), and explore how to parent for critical thinking rather than ideological conformity. This conversation offers essential insights for anyone wrestling with post-evangelical identity, seeking alternatives to political polarization, or curious about how therapeutic wisdom can inform spiritual and ethical development in an age that punishes nuance. Dr. Camden's Website Dr. Camden's Book Dr. Camden on Instagram ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: [email protected] YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this special "after hours" episode, I dive deep with my friend Chase Willett into the surprising abundance of religious and spiritual themes running through the New York Times' list of the 100 greatest films of the 21st century. We explore how our relationship with spiritually-charged cinema has transformed over the years—from Chase's evangelical need to connect every movie back to Paul's letters, to my own journey of embracing ambiguity and transcendent moments that don't require tidy theological conclusions. I share one of the most formative spiritual experiences of my life, involving a chance encounter in Stockholm and Richard Linklater's Boyhood, that reshaped how I understand human dignity and God's perspective. We also discuss spiritual technologies, the nature of transcendent experiences, and begin examining the first category of our 23-film analysis: "Mythic, Fairy Tale and Fantasy Spiritual Allegories," setting up what promises to be a rich exploration of how cinema grapples with questions of meaning and faith. In the patron-only second half, we dive deeper into The Lord of the Rings and other films in this category, commit to watching The Tree of Life and Grizzly Man before our next conversation, and hint at how our discussion may inevitably touch on contemporary geopolitical events. NY Times | 100 Best Movies of the 21st Century Episode #307 | Disability, the Beatitudes & “Changing the World” Religious/spiritual movies from the NYT list in no particular order: Interstellar Lord of the Rings: Fellowship Past Lives The Tree of Life O Brother, Where Art Thou? Spotlight The Master Lady Bird A Serious Man A Prophet Arrival Spirited Away No Country for Old Men Children of Men There Will Be Blood Melancholia Pan’s Labyrinth Mulholland Drive Mad Max: Fury Road Grizzly Man Yi Yi Her Zone of Interest ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: [email protected] YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A spiritual sequel of sorts to episode #330 on youth pastors, I’m joined by Casey and Sam from the Growing Up Christian Podcast to explore their experiences as ex-vangelicals and the evolution of their faith and show. They discuss the origins of their podcast, the role of humor in navigating serious topics, and the impact of community on their personal beliefs. The conversation delves into the complexities of identity, the challenges faced by the “faith deconstruction” community, and the importance of perspective in understanding their past. Growing Up Christian Podcast ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: [email protected] YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It’s time for another Generation Gap Culture Hour, where I sit down with Josh Gilbert and Tony Jones to peel back the layers of personal stories, health struggles, and shifting cultural landscapes through a generational and developmental lens. In today’s episode, we kick things off with a candid discussion about living with Lyme disease (sorry Tony). From there, we trade work-related stories about hustle culture, what work-life balance actually means today, what “baby blue collar” work looks like, and how different age groups think about job loyalty and purpose. Naturally, we can’t help but wander into the messiness of modern politics — exploring how our personal lives and political identities intertwine, and why nuance and community support feel more crucial than ever. In the patron-only second half of the episode, starting with an announcement from Josh’s personal life, we go even deeper: discussing the fine line between personal ambition and collective responsibility, the importance of honest conversations in bridging generational divides, and how we can show up for each other in a world that often feels more polarized by the day. ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: [email protected] YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I chat with journalist Julia Hotz about her book The Connection Cure: The Prescriptive Power of Movement, Nature, Art, Service, and Belonging. Julia introduces me to the fascinating world of "social prescribing," where healthcare providers actually prescribe specific social activities (like circus classes, if you're into that sort of thing) rather than just pills or therapy sessions. We dive into why intrinsic motivation makes all the difference — whether you're there because you genuinely want to be or because someone's making you show up — and how religious spaces naturally deliver many of the connection benefits we're all seeking. The conversation gets particularly interesting when we discuss my social anxiety therapy groups, where I've witnessed firsthand how group therapy can actually outperform individual therapy for certain conditions (and costs a fraction of the price, which should probably be shouted from the rooftops). We explore how 80% of our health outcomes are determined by environmental factors rather than clinical care alone. By the end, we map out practical ways anyone can create their own social prescriptions — whether it's hitting nature for attention restoration, moving your body for mood boosts, or finding your tribe through shared interests and values. Julia's Book | The Connection Cure: The Prescriptive Power of Movement, Nature, Art, Service, and Belonging Julia on Instagram | @Hotzthoughts ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: [email protected] YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm joined by David Zahl, returning YHP guest and editor-in-chief of Mockingbird's online magazine. David is also a massive Beach Boys/Brian Wilson fan like myself, so I knew he would be perfect to talk with about what we know about Brian Wilson's personal faith and spirituality. We also celebrate what his music has meant to us personally, playing a lot of song clips along the way. This is a dual-feed episode on both the You Have Permission and Pretty Good Vibrations feeds because the content feels like it fits in both places. Brian Wilson passed away on June 11th. Although my attempt to have a strong line between the first half of the episode (more focused on his faith) and the second (mostly just focused on the music), things got a little blended up. Nonetheless, if you'd like to skip most of the faith/theology stuff, a good place to start listening is around the 60 min mark. David's piece on Brian Playlist for today's episode Beach Boys Mega Tournament PGV episode Part 1 ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: [email protected] YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Last week I hosted a Q&A session for You Have Permission Patreon subscribers, and we had a great time! Topics included: Christianity's anthropological influence on Western culture How Christian principles have shaped secular humanism and individual rights movements Dan's experience working his first sustained nine-to-five schedule and with college-aged clients How spiritual abuse research specifically affects clergy members rather than just congregants, touching on concepts like "burn through" versus burnout in organizational structures that may make religious institutions unsustainable for their workers. We had a great time and plan to do more of these in the future. Enjoy the recording and stay tuned for the next! ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: [email protected] YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Joy Vetterlein joins me at the top of the episode to discuss the latest round of allegations against Michael Tait, and our evolving reactions and perspectives through this ongoing story. After that update, David Zahl joins me to discuss his new book The Big Relief and his take on grace as Christianity's most radical contribution to the world. We dig into the Lutheran distinction between law and grace, connecting it to Carl Rogers' unconditional positive regard and examining how contemporary culture often delivers moral instruction without the container of acceptance that makes change possible. Dave argues that whether it's progressive activism or conservative piety, we're often just "shouting at people to change and then resenting them when they don't," while true transformation happens when people feel safe enough to be vulnerable. We explore evidence for divine grace through romantic love, recovery programs, and those surprising moments when someone sees us at our worst and chooses to stay. We also get beautifully sidetracked by our mutual obsession with Brian Wilson and the Beach Boys as examples of pure gift. In the end, we're all just looking to be accepted exactly as we are. www.christchurchcville.org/david-zahl Highlights 35:58 The Role of Therapy in Grace 44:47 The Absence of Grace in Socio-Political Discourse 51:49 The Concept of Divine Acceptance 1:05:57 The Burden of Performance and Conditionality 1:10:47 Experiencing Belonging and Grace ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: [email protected] YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode of You Have Permission, I'm checking in with youth pastors to see how they're really doing—and the answer is, “Not great.” My guest Joel Foster, who serves at University Church on Pepperdine's campus, argues that today's youth ministers are working with the most anxious and depressed generation of teenagers ever, but lack the tools and training to handle what they're facing. We explore uncomfortable questions about who's entering the field and why, the psychological toll of carrying students' crises without proper support systems, and whether traditional youth ministry approaches still work for today's kids. Joel opens up about late-night crisis calls, the gap between what this emotionally intensive work requires and what people are actually trained for, and the creative solutions he's developed to support fellow youth ministers. Whether you're in youth ministry, have teenagers in your life, or are curious about how we're caring for the next generation, this conversation offers crucial insights into a field under pressure and what young people actually need from the adults in their lives. Highlights 05:46 Stereotypes of Youth Ministers 15:05 Mental Health and Youth Ministry 30:56 Understanding Adolescent Development 47:21 Challenges Faced by Youth Ministers ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Edited by Josh Gilbert (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠joshgilbertmedia.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ -- he is accepting more work!) Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: [email protected] YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This special live episode was recorded with one of the pod’s favorite friends, Daryl Van Tongeren, back in October at Theology Beer Camp. We talked about how people make faith decisions without definitive proof, based partially on William James' concept of "will to believe." After we establish that Christianity can't be proven beyond reasonable doubt in our pluralistic age, we get into James's framework for "genuine options"—choices that are live, forced, and momentous. Daryl explains the cognitive biases that make certainty impossible, and how James suggests we can reasonably consider pragmatic evidence when metaphysical questions remain unanswerable. We also get into some personal stories, with Daryl sharing how one inexplicable college experience survived his decade-long deconstruction after his brother's tragic death. This was an intellectual yet practical conversation about how we can learn and choose how to live thoughtfully with uncertainty. Other episodes with Daryl: The Good of Religion Without the Bad You Are Not Your Beliefs Come to Theology Beer Camp 2025 in St. Paul, Minneasota! Highlights 01:49 The Challenge of Proving Christianity 09:00 William James and Genuine Options 21:11 The Evolutionary Perspective on Meaning 42:15 The Role of Evidence in Belief 50:25 Living with Uncertainty ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Edited by Josh Gilbert (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠joshgilbertmedia.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ -- he is accepting more work!) Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: [email protected] YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This emergency podcast responds to a new Roys Report article alleging sexual assault by Michael Tait of dc Talk and Newsboys, with my guest Tyson Motsenbocker joining to discuss both the details and broader issues at play, given our respective experiences within the Christian music world. We discuss the culture of secrecy, power imbalances, "adolescent" male culture, and normalization of predatory behavior in Christian music circles—issues that echo longstanding problems in both religious and secular music industries. I tell some horror stories from my early touring days on the Vans Warped Tour, and we connect this scandal to my research on spiritual abuse and religious trauma. The article: https://julieroys.com/former-newsboys-frontman-michael-tait-accused-sexual-assault-grooming-substance-abuse-dating-back-to-2004/ Tyson's music: https://open.spotify.com/artist/5zhKRxsS4pRPhkO6vbE07u Tyson's book: https://www.tysonmotsenbocker.com/shop/where-the-waves-turn-back ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: [email protected] YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It’s time for another Generation Gap Culture Hour, where I sit down with Josh Gilbert and Tony Jones to unpack everything from personal stories to shifting generational trends. In today’s episode, we kick things off by exploring my evolving relationship with cannabis and the lingering stigma that still surrounds its use. From there, we dive into the joys and headaches of homeownership as a way of celebrating Josh and his partner Emily’s first home purchase—comparing notes on which tools are actually worth investing in and which ones just collect dust. Later, we look at the shifting landscape of religion and politics, especially how Gen Z is reimagining both faith and civic engagement in ways that often surprise older generations. And of course, we couldn’t avoid discussing the impact of COVID-19—how it reshaped our sense of community, morality, and what we expect from each other socially. I share how many of my college student therapy clients have mentioned the timing of Covid-era lockdowns as having affected their social skills development. In the patron-only second half of the episode, we go even deeper, focusing on how Gen Z is navigating political disillusionment, their renewed interest in spirituality, and what all of this might mean for the future of activism and trust in institutions. ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Edited by Josh Gilbert (⁠joshgilbertmedia.com⁠ -- he is accepting more work!) Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: [email protected] YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this roundtable conversation, I reconnect with Joy Vetterlein and Jon Steingard (former Hawk Nelson frontman) to explore their parallel journeys of leaving Christian ministry contexts, building public platforms around their deconstruction experiences, and then making the countercultural decision to step back from that public work entirely. Both guests candidly discuss the complex motivations behind their initial platform-building—Jon's ingrained need for attention from his band years, Joy's readiness to stop letting others take credit for her best work—and the financial realities that made sustainability difficult. The conversation reveals how both discovered that the deconstruction community, initially appealing for its theological openness, developed its own orthodoxies and mob dynamics that felt uncomfortably similar to the evangelical culture they'd left. Ultimately, both chose privacy and continued growth over platform maintenance, recognizing the hidden costs of public work on family relationships and personal development. Their stories offer a rare glimpse into the decision to pull back from influence and attention in a culture obsessed with building platforms and growing audiences. Previous Episodes: I Don't Believe in that God: Jon Steingard (#75) I Don't Believe in That God: Joy Vetterlein (#230) ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Edited by Josh Gilbert (⁠⁠⁠⁠joshgilbertmedia.com⁠⁠⁠⁠ -- he is accepting more work!) Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: [email protected] YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My dear friend Ben Bishop, author of The Garden House Substack, joins me to discuss how fiction can help us imagine how people from different times and places experienced the divine, particularly through the novels of Frederick Buechner. Listeners don't need to have read these works to follow our conversation—there are "no quizzes" here. Rather, Buechner’s function helps us strip away our accumulated religious assumptions. When we read biblical stories today, we're receiving them after thousands of years of theological interpretation, but Buechner helps us imagine what it felt like to be Jacob or Isaac in the moment—not as figures who knew they were part of some grand biblical narrative, but as people experiencing strange, terrifying, and wonderful encounters with the divine in real-time. Through his storytelling, we confront both the "offensiveness and the beauty and wonder of those stories" in ways that theoretical discussions simply cannot achieve, making ancient faith experiences immediate and visceral. In the Patreon-exclusive second half, Ben and I discuss our shared adolescent experiences with Christian punk rock, its influence on our sociopolitics, social lives, and faith development. Ben's Substack Ben's pieces mentioned: The Light Shines in the Darkness Straight On Til Morning ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Edited by Josh Gilbert (⁠⁠⁠joshgilbertmedia.com⁠⁠⁠ -- he is accepting more work!) Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: [email protected] YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices