
People, Process, Progress: Leadership from Critical Care to the Boardroom
434 episodes — Page 2 of 9
S7 Ep 2Three Critical Elements to Align Any Team | S7 Ep3
Most team problems come from unclear direction, not a lack of effort. In this episode,Three Critical Elements to Align Any Team | S7 Ep3, I share three practical tools: Leader’s Intent, a clear Definition of Done, and SMART objectives that bring clarity and speed to any project. You will hear a real example of how alignment turned a drifting team into one that delivered with confidence.For more tools and "How to" get The People, Process, & Progress of Project Management on Amazon at https://a.co/d/4zpt5pz and visit the peopleprocessprogress.com website.
S7 Ep 2The Trifecta of Recovery - Reset Friday #1 | S7 Ep2
bonusI’m kicking off a new weekly series called Reset Friday. Each Friday, I’ll share a short, practical way to reset your mind, body, and spirit. These episodes aren’t long lectures. They’re tools you can put into practice right away.For our first Reset Friday, I’m sharing what I call the Trifecta of Recovery: Wim Hof breathing, yoga, and the cold plunge. Breathing primes your nervous system, yoga centers your body, and cold exposure builds resilience and focus. Together, they form a reset you can feel.Take a listen, and then try one of the three this weekend. You might be surprised at how much better you feel.
S7 Ep 1Get Back in Balance with a September Reset | S7 Ep1
September is a natural time to reset. In this episode, I share how I slipped on my own pillar maintenance and used reflection, family time, and a simple framework of People, Process, and Progress to get back on track. You will learn how balance does not come from perfection, but from correction and intentional resets, and how you can apply this principle in your own life and work.
S6 Ep 6The People, Process, & Progress of Project Management Book Release
bonusMy new book, The People, Process, & Progress of Project Management, is now live on Amazon in Kindle, paperback, and hardcover. This book has been years in the making, and it pulls together over two decades of lessons from healthcare IT, public safety, and emergency management into a practical field guide for project leaders.Get your Kindle, hardcover, or paperback copy at https://a.co/d/dsEDG87
S6 Ep 5Why I’m Taking a Break and What You Can Do in the Meantime
bonusKevin is taking a short break from the People, Process, Progress podcast until September. During this time, he's focused on publishing The Stability Equation audiobook, finishing his new project management book, and lining up future guests. Visit peopleprocessprogress.com for tools, resources, and ways to connect. Until then: own your mind, move your body, anchor your spirit.Godspeed y’allKevin
S6 Ep 4How One Habit Can Help You Reset and Refocus
bonusWhen your plan falls apart, your recovery starts with the habits you've built before things went sideways. In this Foundations Friday episode, Build the Bounce, One Habit at a Time, we focus on simple actions that help you reset, refocus, and respond, rather than react when life punches first.This week’s anchor point is mindfulness and movement. It’s not about being tough. It’s about being trained.Topics Covered:Why daily habits matter more than perfect plansHow to mentally prepare for the unexpectedSimple resilience-building practicesPersonal reflections on bounce-back momentsOne actionable habit you can start todayRelated Episode:“When Your Plan Gets Punched in the Mouth” – Listen here: https://peopleprocessprogress.com/2025/07/14/when-your-plan-gets-punched-in-the-mouth/For Stability: Own your mind. Move your body. Anchor your spirit.For leading: Hold on to hope. Make a plan. Take action.Godspeed, y’all.
S6 Ep 3How to Lead When Your Plan Falls Apart
What do you do when your perfect plan falls apart?In this episode, How to Lead When Your Plan Falls Apart, I share how the concepts of tension and compression from Jiu-Jitsu can help you lead through pressure, adapt in real time, and still move forward.Whether you’re leading a project, managing a team, or showing up at home, you’ll learn how to adjust without losing momentum.Hope ignites. Plans guide. Action transforms.
S6 Ep 2Why Letting Others Lead Builds Stronger Teams
bonusIn this Anchor Points episode, I reflect on what it really means to recognize when it’s time to step back and let someone else lead. Whether you’re a parent, a partner, or a project leader, there’s a moment when guidance turns into trust and support becomes space.Inspired by the full episode released earlier this week, “The Day My Son Surpassed Me”, this short-form reflection focuses on the value of noticing and honoring transitions, especially when they catch you by surprise.In this 5-minute listen, you’ll hear:What it means to see strength rise in someone elseHow giving space can be the most powerful form of supportA simple action to help you pause before you reactMentioned in this episode:
S6 Ep 1What I Learned the Day My Son Surpassed Me
There comes a moment when we realize our kids are no longer just following us, they’re leading in their way. In this episode, "What I Learned the Day My Son Surpassed Me," I share the story of how my son surpassed me, not just in the gym, but also in emotional steadiness. I also share how that shifted my approach to parenting, leadership, and letting go.Inspired by a powerful quote from Ryan Holiday's The Daily Dad: “Your job isn’t to raise a good kid. It’s to raise a good adult.” - Read more at https://dailydad.com/
S5 Ep 11How to Decide Between Remote, Hybrid, or In-Office Work
Since 2019, I’ve led major IT programs, including Workday ERP and the technology for a new children’s hospital, while mainly working remotely. In this episode, "Remote, Hybrid, or In-Office: What's the Right Fit?", I break down the pros and cons of remote, hybrid, and in-office work, drawing on real-world experience and leadership lessons.Links:Full article on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/remote-hybrid-in-office-whats-right-fit-your-work-life-kevin-pannell-kqvceRelated episode from 2020:https://blubrry.com/peopleprocessprogress/83155078/how-to-transition-to-effective-teleworking-in-2020-ppp-12/
S5 Ep 10How Many Direct Reports Should You Lead Effectively?
When leaders try to manage too many people directly, clarity disappears and momentum suffers. In this episode, I break down the importance of span of control across public safety, healthcare IT, and project teams. Whether you're building a department, spinning up an incident team, or planning a go-live, the rule of 3 to 7 direct reports still holds. Five is the sweet spot—but there are exceptions.We’ll walk through how ICS uses structure to maintain speed under pressure, how project teams should plan their structure during resource alignment, and why we must review roles and objectives regularly to stay on track. Whether you lead full-time staff or ad hoc teams, this episode is your blueprint for sustainable team design.People first. Combined process. Progress together.
S5 Ep 9How to Align Risk Language Across Teams
bonusOn this Foundations Friday, How to Align Risk Language Across Teams, we break down how project managers and emergency leaders can align around a shared risk language. Whether you're using a THIRA or a risk register, the goal is the same: identify what could go wrong, how bad it might be, and what to do about it. Real teamwork starts when everyone sees risk through the same lens.
S5 Ep 8How to Combine Project Risk Tools with Emergency Planning
Warren Buffett said it best: “Risk comes from not knowing what you're doing.” On today’s episode, How to Combine Project Risk Tools with Emergency Planning, we’re focusing on how project managers and public safety leaders can speak the same language when it comes to risk. The Federal Emergency Management Agency, or FEMA, created the Threat and Hazard Identification and Risk Assessment—also known as THIRA—to help communities anticipate and plan for the unknown. In the same way, project risk registers help uncover obstacles before they become blockers. Today, we’ll connect the dots between THIRA, stakeholder maps, and integrated risk matrices—so your team can prepare, prioritize, and progress, no matter the scenario.
S5 Ep 7Why Structure Must Come Before Action
bonusIn this Foundations Friday, Why Structure Must Come Before Action, we explore the importance of applying project structure to any event or initiative. Whether you're planning a community gathering, a training workshop, or a major deployment, structure is your best friend. Learn two quick strategies to lead with clarity and avoid chaos.What You'll Learn:Why structure should come before actionHow to define your event like a project charterTwo simple ways to build a planning foundationA reminder that leadership starts with preparationPaired Full Episode:
S5 Ep 6How to Run Your Event Like a Successful Project
Planning a public event without structure is a risk you can’t afford. In this episode, How to Treat How to Run Your Event Like a Successful Project, Kevin Pannell shares how to apply project management principles and ICS tools, like RACI matrices, project phases, SMART goals, and SitReps, to plan safer, smoother public safety events. Whether you're leading a 5K, a drill, or a community gathering, treat the event like a project—and lead with purpose.Topics Covered: event planning, project phases, stakeholder roles, ICS, SMART goals, emergency management, public safety leadership
S5 Ep 5How to Diagnose Failing Projects Like an EMT
bonusThis week, we apply an EMT’s trauma checklist to project leadership. Using the DCAP-BTLS framework, we explore how to scan your project for failure symptoms—before they spiral.Key focus areas:• Spotting early signs of project breakdown• Clarifying roles and responsibilities• Responding with intention, not reactionCall to Action: Identify one “injury” in your project—like burnout, misalignment, or scope creep—and treat it today. People first. Combined process. Progress together.
S5 Ep 4What Project Managers Can Learn from EMTs
Welcome to the second full episode in our All-Hazards Project Management series, What Project Managers Can Learn from EMTs. In this episode, we apply a trauma checklist used in emergency medicine—DCAP-BTLS—to assess and stabilize failing projects.Strategies shared include:Weekly workload balancingStakeholder alignment checkpointsRACI ownership clarificationsReal-world triage questions for team check-insPeople first. Combined process. Progress together.
S5 Ep 3How to Start Small with AI in Your Projects
bonusThis week’s Foundations Friday, How to Start Small with AI in Your Projects, is a bit of a reset and reminder. If you’re in public safety or project management, you don’t need to become a coder. But you do need to understand where AI can help you lead smarter and deliver faster.
S5 Ep 2How AI is Transforming Public Safety and Project Management
In this episode, How AI is Transforming Public Safety and Project Management We explore how artificial intelligence (AI) is reshaping how we plan, respond, and lead in complex environments.Key takeaways:How to get your PEOPLE ready with an AI readiness assessmentWhere to fit AI into your organization's PROCESSWhen to measure PROGRESS with an AI impact dashboardPeople first. Process aligned. Progress together.
S5 Ep 1All-Hazards Project Management: Series Kickoff and What to Expect
trailerWelcome to the 20-episode run of the All-Hazards Project Management: Series Kickoff and What to Expect of the People, Process, Progress podcast.Since I was seventeen, I’ve been involved in public safety, emergency medicine, and planning events or incident responses. Across all these roles, one truth has stood out: effective planning connects them all. In public safety, it’s about saving lives and protecting property—but that only works when teams share a process and operate efficiently. In emergency medicine, triage and crisis standards guide us to do the greatest good for the greatest number. And in project management, it’s about turning an idea into reality.In every one of these fields, people are the constant. To stay safe, deliver care, and get results, those people must work a shared process. The progress we make depends on both.That’s where this All-Hazards Project Management series comes in.This series is built from the field and the front lines. I've used elements of what you’ll hear in these episodes to train fire department leaders in project management and to share public safety insights with members of the Project Management Institute (PMI). These are the practical lessons that bridge emergency response and organizational execution.Each episode blends:People – who we lead and how we support them,Process – the systems and structures that keep us aligned,Progress – the measurable outcomes that prove we’re moving forward.We’ll connect project management frameworks to the Incident Command System (ICS), highlight real-world parallels, and provide tools you can apply immediately. You'll also get a clear call to action in every episode to drive results, not just reflection.If you’re ready to lead in uncertainty, plan with precision, and deliver under pressure—this series is for you.Let’s lead with clarity, operate with purpose, and progress together. I’ll see you next week.
S4 Ep 24How to Tackle Scope Creep with People, Process, and Courage
In this episode, How to Tackle Scope Creep with People, Process, and Courage we're diving into how to protect our projects, keep our sanity, and build stronger teams in the process.Episode outlineIntroCore conceptsThe People Side: Assertiveness and Stakeholder Boundaries The Process Side: Change Control Systems (Hard Skills/PM Tools)The Progress Side: Leading with Clarity Under Pressure Summary & ClosingGodspeed y'all,Kevin
S4 Ep 23The 7 Pillars Field Guide Audiobook, how to build a more balanced life
bonusThis episode is an audiobook-like version of the The 7 Pillars Field Guide Audiobook, how to build a more balanced life distills the key, actionable tools and techniques from The Stability Equation into one-page summaries of each of the seven pillars: ownership, mindfulness, movement, boundaries, connection, sleep, and faith.Godspeed y'all,Kevin
S4 Ep 22Project handoffs that work, how to receive and deliver with clarity
Welcome back to the People, Process, Progress podcast, the podcast dedicated to fostering pragmatic optimism in your professional world. Today, in Project handoffs that work, how to receive and deliver with clarity we're tackling a universal challenge: the art of the good project handoff. Whether you're a healthcare professional transitioning patient care, a software developer handing off a project, or simply passing the baton in any collaborative effort, a smooth handoff is crucial for success. So, let's dive in and explore some key elements for both providing and receiving a stellar handoff.Godspeed y'all,Kevin
Portfolio management lessons from Skyrim for project leaders
In Portfolio management lessons from Skyrim for project leaders, I share how the choices made in the virtual fantasy world of Skyrim parallel the strategic decisions Portfolio Managers and leaders must make when planning, resourcing, and executing projects within their organizations' portfolios.Episode focus areas:Effective resource allocation and prioritizationEffective stakeholder managementEffective risk managementEffective progress tracking and benefit realizationGodspeed y'all,Kevin
How to ask objective questions that improve decisions
Restarting the Fix It Friday series with the March 2024 episode from the Hope is NOT a Plan podcast. This episode delves into the crucial skill of asking objective questions to drive clarity and problem-solving. We explore how unbiased inquiries can empower teams and improve processes by drawing parallels to the host's diverse podcasting journey and the principles in his book The Stability Equation. Learn practical techniques to formulate effective objective questions and unlock better organizational outcomes.How to ask:Focus on "who," "what," "when," "where," and "how" questionsAvoid leading questions that suggest an answerPhrase questions neutrally, without judgmentEncourage elaboration with open-ended questionsGodspeed y'all,Kevin
S5 Ep 1Official Launch: Get Your Copy of The Stability Equation Book on Amazon!
Hey everyone!I'm excited to officially announce the launch of my book, The Stability Equation: 7 Pillars for a More Balanced Life! This subreddit was created to discuss the principles and practices outlined in the book, and I'm so grateful to have you all here.This book is deeply personal, born from my struggles with anxiety, trauma, and the journey to find lasting mental, physical, and spiritual well-being. It shares the roadmap I developed – the 7 Pillars – that helped me reclaim my balance.This book can serve as a practical resource, and this subreddit can become a supportive community where we can explore these pillars together, share our experiences, and encourage each other on our paths to greater stability.If you're interested in learning more, you can find the book on Amazon here:https://a.co/d/1V1tpGII look forward to engaging with you and building a supportive community around The Stability Equation. Let's work towards a more balanced life together.Godspeed y'all,Kevin
S4 Ep 21The Stability Equation: 7 Pillars for a More Balanced Life
Today's episode, The Stability Equation: 7 Pillars for a More Balanced Life, is all about building a balanced life, a life that honors the miracle you are while acknowledging the human imperfections that come along with the ride. We're talking about the seven pillars that, when stacked carefully, create a life that's not just planned – it's thriving.
S4 Ep 20Five Benefits of Family Time Off | S4 Ep20
Welcome back to People, Process, Progress podcast. Today, on Five Benefits of Family Time Off, I'm diving into something I believe is essential for well-being and something that often gets pushed down the priority list amidst our busy schedules: family vacations.The benefits:Stress reductionFamily bonding and connectionEnhanced problem-solving skillsPositive impact on physical healthCreating memories togetherGodspeed.
S4 Ep 19A Historical Look at Information Manipulation in US Politics | S4Ep19
Episode Objectives:Historical overview of political manipulation tactics used throughout America’s historyFive key examples of manipulation spanning different erasSix actionable strategies for navigating today's complex political landscapeGodspeed y'all.
S4 Ep 18The People, Process, & Progress of Public Health | S4Ep18
In this episode, The People, Process, & Progress of Public Health, I talk about what public health is, why it matters, and why it's crucial to protect it from political whiplash, ensuring that the critical work of keeping communities healthy continues regardless of who's in office.
S4 Ep 17How Technical Should Project Managers Really Be? | S4Ep17
Hello everyone and welcome back to The People, Process, & Progress Podcast, I’m your host Kevin Pannell. On today’s episode, How Technical Should Project Managers Really Be? | S4Ep17 I’m speaking to Project Managers, aspiring PMs, team leads, and anyone involved in software or technical projects. My goal is to talk through the optimal level of technical understanding for project managers, emphasizing the value of technical literacy without overstepping into solution design, and balancing tactical involvement with strategic oversight.
S4 Ep 16Five Focus Areas for Project Managers in 2025 | S4Ep16
As a Project Manager I'm always seeking new knowledge, skills, and abilities to help me empower my team members and project partners. In Five Focus Areas for Project Managers in 2025, I'm sharing focus areas I will be diving deeper into and that I've gotten questions about from my teams and the internet.
S4 Ep 15How we Should Reform the Federal Emergency Management Agency | S4Ep15
On today’s episode, How we Should Reform the Federal Emergency Management Agency, I’ll examine the critical role of FEMA in disaster relief and explore strategies to improving its effectivenessHow we can improve FEMA:Thorough After-Action Report/Improvement Plans (AAR/IPs)Direct engagement with FEMA employees and the publicStreamline Local and State assistance processesEnhance pre-disaster collaboration at all levelsGodspeed y'al
S4 Ep 14Five Steps to Extreme Ownership for Project Managers | S4Ep14
In this audio from my video, I share lessons learned from the book Extreme Ownership written by Jocko Willink and Leif Babin and from my completion of the Echelon Front course Extreme Ownership Framework and how Project Managers can apply them when leading teams.Find a course and sign up at https://academy.echelonfront.com/
S4 Ep 13Seven Powerful Quotes to Help You Balance Your Life in 2025 | S4Ep13
Over the past few years, I’ve pulled together seven focus areas for my life that I call the “7 Pillars”, of ownership, mindfulness, movement, boundaries, connection, sleep, and faith. Today on Seven Powerful Quotes to Help You Balance Your Life in 2025, I’m sharing quotes from seven of the most influential people I’ve heard speak, read books from, and worked with and how I apply these concepts in my life.Quotes from:Jocko WillinkAndy PuddicombeEmma McAdamJackson BaynardJohan HarriMatthew WalkerThe HospitalerGodspeed y'all.
S4 Ep 12Project Risk Management Lessons from the Challenger Disaster | S4Ep12
The Challenger disaster serves as a stark reminder of the importance of rigorous risk assessment and the potential consequences of ignoring or downplaying warnings. In Risk Management Lessons from the Challenger Disaster, I'm paralleling takeaways from the Challenger disaster with how Project Managers can reduce project risk through effective risk management.Godspeed to the Challenger Astronauts Sharon Christa McAuliffe, Michael J. Smith, Judith A. Resnik, Ronald E. McNair, Ellison S. Onizuka, and Gregory B. Jarvis
S4 Ep 11Risk Management Lessons from the Challenger Disaster | S4Ep11
The Challenger disaster serves as a stark reminder of the importance of rigorous risk assessment and the potential consequences of ignoring or downplaying warnings. In Risk Management Lessons from the Challenger Disaster, I'm paralleling takeaways from the Challenger disaster with how Project Managers can reduce project risk through effective risk management.Godspeed to the Challenger Astronauts Sharon Christa McAuliffe, Michael J. Smith, Judith A. Resnik, Ronald E. McNair, Ellison S. Onizuka, and Gregory B. Jarvis
S4 Ep 10Moving Past Paralysis During Analysis | S4Ep10
In Moving Past Paralysis During Analysis I'm sharing five considerations for leaders who need to move their teams to a decision point and out of an analysis rut whether planning a disaster response or a technology project.
S4 Ep 9Eight Steps to Effective Strategic Communication | S4Ep9
On today’s Framework Friday, Eight Steps to Effective Strategic Communication, I’m going to share the National Incident Management System (NIMS) 8-step process that many Public Information Officers (PIO) use to effectively communicate before, during, and after disasters.Reference: page 20 of the National Incident Management System (NIMS) Basic Guidance for Public Information Officers (PIOs)
S4 Ep 8How NOT to Brief the Public After a Disaster | S4Ep8
In this episode, How NOT to Brief the Public After a Disaster, I’ll share insight from my time on an All-Hazards Incident Management Team (AHIMT) on what not to do when briefing the public and press after a critical incident and proposed solutions to improve crisis communication in the future.Lessons learned:Not overcrowding the roomNot using basic mannersNot being honest with the publicNot letting Operations speakNot briefing leaders ahead of timeNot showing a Unified Command presenceGodspeed y'all,Kevin
S4 Ep 7Breathing, Framing, and Surviving in Jiu-Jitsu and in Life | S4Ep7
In Breathing, Framing, and Surviving in Jiu-Jitsu and in Life, I’m speaking about the importance of breathing, placing physical and metaphorical frames in your life, and surviving. I’m speaking to you folks facing challenging times, Jiu-Jitsu practitioners, fitness enthusiasts, anyone interested in self-improvement, …in other words. All humans. In this episode:Breathing in BJJWim Hof and 2-to-1 breathing techniquesSetting mental and physical frames in BJJ and lifeSurviving by balancing your "7 pillars"Godspeed y'all,Kevin
S4 Ep 6Lessons Learned from 2024 and Tools I'm Doubling Down On in 2025 | S4 Ep6
In Lessons Learned from 2024 and Tools I'm Doubling Down On in 2025, I'm sharing a roundup of non-family and friend influential people, products, exercises, mindsets, and tools I found helpful in 2024 and that I'll build on going into 2025.
S4 Ep 5When You Miss Someone at Christmas | S4Ep5
My Dad passed away in April of this year and this is my first Christmas without him. So I'm trying to find a way to honor my Father's memory, to acknowledge the pain, and perhaps, to find some peace. I wrote a poem, When You Miss Someone at Christmas, and I'd like to share it with you.Merry Christmas and Godspeed y'all,Kevin
S4 Ep 4How to Craft Impactful User Stories for Improved Outcomes | S4Ep4
Today, on Framework Friday episode one, How to Craft Impactful User Stories for Improved Outcomes, we're diving into a powerful tool for defining "what done looks like": user stories.People:Users, customers, and ourselvesProcess:Crafting user storiesUsing the MoSCoW prioritization methodProgress:Defining "what done looks like." more effectivelyGodspeed y'all,Kevin
S4 Ep 3When Processes Should Adapt | S4Ep3
In this episode I'm helping listeners not be too rigid with their processes through examples from Taiichi Ohno and my own lessons learned as an Emergency Medical Technician, Planning Section Chief, and Project Manager.People: "Let the flow manage the processes, and not let management manage the flow." - Taiichi OhonProcess:Evaluating what done looks likeLetting the team determine the best way to get thereGauging the team's capabilitiesChoosing the right tools from the process toolboxProgress:Helping listeners not be too rigid with their processes so that their teams have autonomy and collaborative outcomes are encouraged
S4 Ep 2For Personal Fitness the Simple Answer is the Way | S4Ep2
Getting out of shape doesn't happen overnight. Gaining weight isn't an instant occurrence. So, what's to be done? Hit play and let's improve together.
S4 Ep 1Welcome to the Re-launch of the People, Process, Progress Podcast | S4Ep1
trailerIn Welcome to the Re-launch of the People, Process, Progress Podcast, Host Kevin Pannell reunites himself with listeners after a one-year detour. Kevin shares why he stepped away, why he's back, and what listeners can expect from him and his guests in the future.“Sooner or later, everything old is new again.” - Stephen KingFuture focus:Leadership and managementTeam building and collaborationPersonal development and growthInnovation and creativityand more!more at peopleprocessprogress.com
S2 Ep 106How You Can Influence the Influencers John C. Maxwell Style | Foundations Friday #106
Providing practical considerations to the John Maxwell Company, list 7 Factors that Influence Influence (or Influencers)Read the original list at https://www.johnmaxwell.com/blog/7-factors-that-influence-influence/Get John C. Maxwell's book Good Leaders Ask Great Questions at https://www.amazon.com/Good-Leaders-Ask-Great-Questions/dp/145554809X
S3 Ep 36Helping Fathers Live Legendary with The Dad Edge Founder Larry Hagner | KEV Talks Podcast #36
In this episode of the KEV Talks Podcast, meet Larry Hagner, the visionary behind The Dad Edge – a platform that inspires men to create and sustain strong relationships with their spouses and children, while also achieving overall wellness in various aspects of their lives.
The Power of Proactivity | Foundations Friday #105
Being proactive is a power. It enables us to prepare our minds for hardship better, and proactive Public Safety leaders and Project Managers can provide better contingency plans. In the realm of Public Safety, taking proactive planning action saves lives. For Project Managers, a proactive planning approach saves time, money, and resources, and keeps the quality of our team's work high.Join me for this episode inspired by my soon-to-be-released interview with Larry Hagner of The Dad Edge (https://thedadedge.com/) as I expand on my thoughts and share more advantages to the proactive mindset over the reactive one.Godspeed y'all.