No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp

This is our unabridged interview with Josh Brake. What if the tools shaping our future are also reshaping our humanity? As part of our series The Human Cost of AI, Josh Brake stands out as a uniquely thoughtful voice, bringing together engineering, philosophy, and theology to ask deeper questions about technology and human flourishing. We wanted to bring you the full, unabridged conversation that Josh and Lee had. This is a rich and honest exploration of what it means to live wisely, faithfully, and humanly in an age of artificial intelligence. ⁠⁠⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged episode 1 of The Human Cost of AI⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Join NSE+⁠⁠⁠⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, religion and spirituality, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠⁠ Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠@leeccamp ⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Lee and Savannah welcome a guest on this week’s episode to discuss why everyone hates poetry! In the hot seat is professor and poet Donovan McAbee, who recently published Holy the Body, a collection of poems exploring loss, grief, and doubt. Together, they talk about the beauty of uncertainty and how poetry can be the translator of life’s darkest experiences. If you liked the selected poems McAbee read on this episode, make sure to pick up a copy of Holy the Body! Things we mentioned in this episode: Holy the Body by Donovan McAbee Selected Poems by Seamus Heaney Endurance by Alfred Lansing The Frozen River by Ariel Lawhon Viola Davis on Good Hang with Amy Poehler Falling by James L. Dickey Praying Drunk by Andrew Hudgins Models of the Church by Avery Dulles Follow Donovan McAbee: Instagram Follow The Subtext: Instagram | Threads | X | YouTube | TikTok Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter | Lee's Newsletter Follow Savannah: Instagram | Substack Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What if the greatest danger of AI isn’t that it becomes human, but that it reshapes what it means to be one? In part one of this series, we explore artificial intelligence through a sobering insight: every ship we build also creates the possibility of a shipwreck. The question is not whether AI will save us or destroy us, but how our own formation may already be the collateral damage of its rise. To trace the human cost of AI, we follow three fault lines: tools, sex, and money. We examine how these technologies shape our habits and desires, and how they are shaped by the systems of power we live within. Along the way, we hear from leading scholars and technologists, including computer scientist Josh Brake, philosopher Joe Vukov, MIT professor Rosalind Picard, journalist Garrett Graff, and data scientist Rumman Chowdhury. Together, they challenge the idea that AI is merely a neutral tool, revealing how it quietly directs our attention, relationships, and sense of purpose and inviting us to reconsider what it means to live well and remain human, in an age of powerful machines. Key Ideas: -Rethink “Just a Tool” Technologies are never neutral; their design subtly shapes our habits, attention, and even our sense of agency. -Ask Who You’re Becoming The deeper question isn’t what we use AI for, but how it forms our character and communities over time. -Resist the Illusion of Understanding AI systems can mimic human thought, but they do not understand meaning—reminding us to value uniquely human forms of knowing. -Guard Your Desire AI’s ability to simulate intimacy risks reshaping our longings, training us toward convenience over genuine relationship. -Follow the Incentives Behind every AI system are economic forces that prioritize engagement and profit, often at the expense of human flourishing. -Recover a Fuller Humanity Being human is more than intelligence—it includes embodiment, relationships, and moral responsibility that no machine can replicate. Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged episode 1 of The Human Cost of AI Join NSE+ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, religion and spirituality, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow @nosmallendeavor Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow @leeccamp Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Matt Lee. What if flourishing isn’t something you achieve, but something you share? Sociologist and human flourishing scholar Matthew T. Lee reflects on his unlikely journey from studying homicide to exploring love as a social practice. Drawing on research, philosophy, and lived experience, he challenges individualistic definitions of success and offers a richer vision rooted in community, dialogue, and mutual care. He insists that all flourishing is mutual. Key Ideas: -Flourish Together or Not at All True human flourishing is mutual, it cannot exist at the expense of others or the world around us. -From Isolation to Interdependence His “forest” metaphor reveals that our lives are deeply interconnected, sharing resources and meaning beneath the surface. -Love as a Social Practice Flourishing grows through lived practices of love, not just ideas, especially in restorative justice and everyday relationships. -Rethink Success and Happiness The Global Flourishing study has found that material wealth and personal satisfaction alone are insufficient; flourishing includes virtue, relationships, and contribution to others. -Dialogue Over Monologue Transformation begins when we move beyond certainty and enter into genuine dialogue that reshapes how we see others and ourselves. -Build Small Communities of Hope Change doesn’t start at scale; it begins with small, intentional communities practicing a better way of being human. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources and Transcript⁠⁠ for abridged episode with Matt Lee ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join NSE+⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@leeccamp ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Is being an influencer on social media a calling? Can public-facing work align with a life of service? In this episode, Savannah and Lee unpack a viral influencer video and explore what it means to have a dream, how it connects to vocation, and what it really means to make an impact in the world. Things we mentioned in this episode: NYT Cooking Black Sesame Rice Krispies Treats Dept. Q Paradise Cup of Tea by Kacey Musgraves Who is My Enemy by Lee C. Camp The Seven Storey Mountain by Thomas Merton The Summer Day by Mary Oliver Markings by Dag Hammarskjold The Pretender by Jackson Browne Follow The Subtext: Instagram | Threads | X | YouTube | TikTok Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter | Lee's Newsletter Follow Savannah: Instagram | Substack Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What if flourishing isn’t something you achieve, but something you share? Sociologist and human flourishing scholar Matthew T. Lee reflects on his unlikely journey from studying homicide to exploring love as a social practice. Drawing on research, philosophy, and lived experience, he challenges individualistic definitions of success and offers a richer vision rooted in community, dialogue, and mutual care. He insists that all flourishing is mutual. Key Ideas: -Flourish Together or Not at All True human flourishing is mutual, it cannot exist at the expense of others or the world around us. -From Isolation to Interdependence His “forest” metaphor reveals that our lives are deeply interconnected, sharing resources and meaning beneath the surface. -Love as a Social Practice Flourishing grows through lived practices of love, not just ideas, especially in restorative justice and everyday relationships. -Rethink Success and Happiness The Global Flourishing study has found that material wealth and personal satisfaction alone are insufficient; flourishing includes virtue, relationships, and contribution to others. -Dialogue Over Monologue Transformation begins when we move beyond certainty and enter into genuine dialogue that reshapes how we see others and ourselves. -Build Small Communities of Hope Change doesn’t start at scale; it begins with small, intentional communities practicing a better way of being human. ⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources and Transcript⁠⁠ for abridged episode with Matt Lee⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join NSE+⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@leeccamp ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices