Money Life with Chuck Jaffe

The show — like the stock market and economy — moves in a lot of directions today, with Ron Sanchez, chief investment officer at Fiduciary Trust Company International, saying that there's a "high degree of clarity around the economy," — a level of sustainability and durability that he thinks will last at least through 2026 — balanced out by a host of policy and regime changes ahead that could impact monetary and fiscal policies, regulation, trades and tariffs and more. He thinks the uncertainty being played over a strong economic backdrop should ensure that the market avoids significant trouble. Jeffrey Bierman, founder of TheQuantGuy.com and chief market technician at TheoTrade, says the stock market is setting up for a "garden-variety, nothing-to-panic, maybe 10 percent corrective move in the market," but that once that is done stocks will consolidate and the market will start to climb higher again. Neither guest thinks big gains are likely in 2025, but both think that high single-digit gains are likely. Also on the show, John Cole Scott of Closed-End Fund Advisors answers audience questions on closed-end fund investing in The NAVigator segment and Chip Lupo discusses a WalletHub survey which showed that some 40 percent of Americans think their bank is taking advantage of them.

Nanette Abuhoff Jacobson, global investments strategist for the Hartford Funds, is expecting a positive year for 2025, with a broadening market and solid earnings growth driving it forward, but she expects the drive to a third consecutive year of double-digit gains to be more volatile. That volatility represents an opportunity, she said, because fantastic companies become cheap when the markets get frothy but their underlying fundamentals don't change. Jacobson is leaning towards domestic stocks, but she noted that investors do not want to forsake international stocks, because they represent a good value at a point where domestic markets are pricey. Economist Lester Jones discusses the latest Business Outlook Survey from the National Association for Business Economics, which showed that economists think sales and profits are holding steady in current conditions, despite rising costs and increasing uncertainty over economic policy. Todd Rosenbluth, head of research at VettaFi, looks at a Bitcoin fund that uses options to eliminate downside risk as his ETF of the Week, and Geoff Garbacz, partner at Quantitative Partners, mixes technical analysis with a macro outlook in examining some popular stocks in the Money Life Market Call.

Mark Luschini, chief investment strategist for Janney Montgomery Scott, says that "the U.S. economy seems to be in pretty good shape," noting that there's a healthy amount of momentum — built on the strength of the labor market — that is creating solid underpinnings to will keep the economy and the stock market in a good place at least through 2025. Luschini thinks that earnings expectations — which he sees as a key for stocks continuing to post gains — are reasonable right now, though he does expect the market will be more volatile around news events, especially as it relates to earnings. Mark Hamrick, Washington bureau chief for Bankrate.com, looks at their latest "emergency savings report," which showed that just 41 percent of Americans would use their savings to pay for a major unexpected expense, like a $1,000 car repair or medical emergency treatment. In the Market Call, Ken Applegate, portfolio manager for the Wasatch International Growth and International Select funds, talks global small-cap investing.

Steven Dover, chief market strategist for Franklin Templeton — the head of the Franklin Templeton Investment Institute — called the DeepSeek news that roiled the market over the weekend and into Monday "a Sputnik moment," comparing it to when the Russians stepped up the space race and the rest of the world responded. "If it's true that something is coming out that is much cheaper and easier for companies to use, that is going to incease the efficiency and productivity of the economy and help the broad market significantly," Dover said. He noted that the weekend's news — and the start of the new Trump Administration — have not shaken his outlook for 2025, when he sees low double-digit gains, a broadening of the stocks that are working and heightened volatility, but no recession. Tom McClellan, editor of The McClellan Market Report, talks about how he believes that liquidity concerns are being overlooked by investors now, but they have him fully short the market. He notes that "event risk" tends to be heightened when liquidity is impaired, which could add to market volatility now; he pointed out that the DeepSeek news highlighted market overconfidence because investors were unprepared for weekend event risk. In the Market Call, Max Wasserman, co-founder and senior portfolio manager at Miramar Capital, talks about building a portfolio around dividend payers, with a mix of high- and low-growth companies.

Brad McMillan, chief investment officer for Commonwealth Financial Network, says that investors are nervous and have plenty of worries, but that there is a disconnect between those negative thoughts and what's actually going wrong because conditions continue to look good and be mostly unaffected by the worst things investors are scared of. That's a big reason why McMillan is optimistic now, noting as well that "The worse the rest of the world looks, the better we look because there's nowhere else to be;" while he expects heightened volatility, he also expects stocks to deliver low double-digit gains again this year. David Trainer, founder and president at New Constructs, puts the entire utility sector in the Danger Zone, noting that the vast majority of companies in the sector are unattractive or worse. Ted Rossman discusses a Bankrate.com study showing that nearly one in four rewards cardholders left free money on the table last year. Plus Jon Wolfenbarger, founder and chief executive officer at BullAndBearProfits.com, brings his stock and ETF strategies to the Market Call.

Barry Ritholtz, chairman and chief investment officer at Ritholtz Wealth Management, says that investors love a good story, but they tend to put too much stock in them and right now they are looking at a lot of things that either "can't" happen or "must" happen after two big-gain years for the market and they're making misguided decisions. He notes that the economy is likely to continue to avoid recession, especially as the 2020s will be looked back on as a period that pushed technology forward and created productivity and other gains that helped a mature economy keep growing. Chris Vermeulen, chief market strategist for The Technical Traders, discusses why short-term concerns have him on the sidelines right now -- even with the market potentially set to gain another 5 to 8 percent before he expects a downturn -- and what he will need to see to feel comfortable moving back into the market. In The NAVigator segment, Miguel Laranjeiro, investment director for municipal debt at Abrdn, says the appetite for muni-bond assets has been growing at a point when "tax-exempt yields look really attractive."

Jennifer Martin, vice president of global equities for T. Rowe Price, says that artificial intelligence is creating "contestable markets," which means that "Every company has to keep spending." That creates an economic imperative -- regardless of economic and market conditions -- that should help the stock market power through adjustments to the new administration's policies and concerning economic conditions. Martin discusses T. Rowe's 2025 Outlook, and how it has changed in the two months since it was issued, but she noted that the U.S. economy is set for another year of growth, and that value plays and small-cap stocks could be strong for international markets. Todd Rosenbluth, head of research at VettaFi, looks to a long-term dividend payers for both income and growth in his ETF of the Week, and Ken Mahoney, chief executive officer at Mahoney Asset Management, brings his "GPS method" for picking stocks and ETFs to the Market Call, looking to ride companies and sectors where the players are beating estimates and raising their earnings guidance.

Scott Ladner, chief investment officer at Horizon Investments, says that the stock market will need earnings growth to generate returns in 2025, but that those gains should run roughly equal to the level of earnings growth, leaving the market set up for low double-digit gains in 2025. He says that technology continues to provide a tailwind to the market, though henotes that the artificial intelligence evolution makes for a moving target where investors might want to gravitate towards industries that are adjacent to AI, making money off of the companies and sectors that use AI to drive profit gains. Ladner — whose firm practices goals-based planning — noted that while the U.S. economy remains the world's strongest, it would be a mistake to ignore international markets now. Leigh Purvis, prescription drug policy principal at the AARP Public Policy Institute discusses her research into showing that prices on brand-name drugs have been rising much faster than the rate of general inflation for decades, creating challenges — particularly for Medicare Part D enrollees — that many people have addressed by not refilling prescriptions or by skipping doses to make prescriptions last longer. Plus Dan Crowley, partner at Nightview Capital — portfolio manager of the Nightview Fund — brings his concentrated growth approach to the Market Call.

Bryce Doty, senior portfolio manager at Sit Investment Associates says that "the elephant in the room" for the economy is the growing federal debt, now up to $36 trillion, which puts the Federal Reserve "in a pickle," because the debt will continue exploding if interest rates don't fall, but inflation could get out of control if the central bank cuts rates too fast. Doty sees an economy that will struggle to overcome that pressure, consumers that are reaching the limits on their spending and more, yet he doesn't foresee a recession this year just a slowdown that likely won't last long because he foresees the economy reaccelerating before year's end. David Trainer, founder and president at New Constructs celebrates Monday's holiday — which delayed his weekly appearance on the show — by discussing an undervalued, dividend-paying steel company stock as he turns his weekly Danger Zone into "The Attractive Zone," and financial psychotherapist Vicky Reynal discusses her new book, "Money on Your Mind" The Unconscious Beliefs That Sabotage Your Financial Well-Being – and How to Break Free."

Daniel McCormack, head of research for Macquarie Asset Management, says that heightened volatility in 2025 should make investors want to stay nimble and flexible, but he expects reasonable growth and a healthy environment. Sharing his outlook for 2025, McCormack says he expects China to begin "exporting inflation again," which could the U.S. back above a 3 percent inflation rate, which might slow down the pace of rate cuts, but it won't throw the economy into a recession. Larry Holzenthaler, portfolio manager for First Eagle Alternative Credit, gave his outlook for credit markets in 2025, noting that after avoiding default troubles when rates were rising, the picture is better now, particularly in private credit. Jennifer White discusses a J.D. Power study showing that consumers don't think their bank will help them out in an emergency, and how banks might be more helpful than customers expect, and Chuck answers a listener question about sequence-of-return risk.

Bob Elliott, chief investment officer for the Unlimited Funds, says investors entered 2025 with "euphoric expectations," but at a time when the market was going through a tightening, which is a set-up for the market to be flat or down for a few months. He says investors should curb their enthusiasm if they expect the market to perform as well as it has in the last two years, though he makes it clear that there are still good times to be had, just at the levels of 2023 and '24. Author Paul Podolsky discusses "The Uncomfortable Truth About Money," which is his latest book, focused on "living with uncertainty and [thinking] for yourself." Todd Rosenbluth, head of research at VettaFi, looks to the banking sector for his ETF of the Week.

Ryan Detrick, chief market strategist for the Carson Group, says growing earnings and profit margins are creating a dual tailwind for the stock market, and while he cites plenty of reasons for concern — including the potential for a double-digit market decline in the first half of 2025 — he's "not scared that the bull market is over." In both his 2025 outlook — released Tuesday — and in today's Big Interview, Detrick called for double-digit market gains, inflation that comes under control and allows the Federal Reserve to cut interest rates later in the year, and a change in market leadership that has him leaning into rebalancing and diversifying portfolios, with particular attention paid to financial, cyclical and industrial companies. Chip Lupo discusses a WalletHub survey which showed that more than 1 in 10 Americans blew up their credit card debt over the holiday season, and that more people are carrying debt without any plan on how to pay it off. In the Market Call, it's discount shopping in the closed-end fund aisle with Eric Boughton, chief analyst for Matisse Captial and manager of the Matisse Discounted Closed-End Fund Strategy fund.

Scott Helfstein, head of investment strategy for Global X ETFs says "Investors had better be ready for some chop" in 2024, but he thinks fundamentals are good and expanding and the market will broaden so that the economy and market pick up in areas that have not done well of late. Those conditions may create a volatile market but should help fight off a slowing pace of interest rate cuts. Helfstein sees several themes leading the way, most notably artificial intelligence — both the providers and the AI infrastructure — but also power companies, and then infrastructure investing. His take on infrastructure — particularly in the power business — aligns with that of Rob Thummel, portfolio manager of the Tortoise Energy Infrastructure Corp. (TYG) Fund, who lays out his case for the sector in the Market Call. Plus, Willie Delwiche of Hi Mount Research makes a technical case for the market to take a breather before it can get re-achieve record highs, and Chuck Bell of Consumer Reports discusses a recent federal proposal to ban the inclusion of medical debt on credit reports.

Dec Mullarkey, head of investment strategy at SLC Investments, says that when there is a lot of uncertainty and geopolitical risk, the United States economy and markets benefit from the situation, even if the unrest is partially caused by the U.S. As a result, while many observers worry about what might change under the new Trump Administration, Mullarkey expects economic stability, noting that "given all the headwinds we all can think of, [the U.S.) is better fortified than any other economy right now to sustain continuous growth this year. ... The rest of the world is more at risk." David Trainer, founder and president of New Constructs, revisits Sweetgreen, which he put into the Danger Zone in 2021 and subsequently named a "zombie stock," which has bounced back significantly this year, setting it up for another fall. Plus, John Dorfman, chairman of Dorfman Value Investments brings his classic value style to the Market Call.

Liz Ann Sonders, chief investment strategist at Charles Schwab & Co., says that while the stock market has done well at the index level — where a few big names carried the benchmarks to big years — the fuller story has been told at a lower level, where the market has had more struggles and there have been rolling recessions in various areas of the economy without triggering a full-blown, broad-based downturn. She says those conditions will persist for at least the first half of 2025, with the market continuing to roll on if earnings remain strong; to that end, she noted that the market's current expectations — calling for 14 percent earnings growth — seem high, which should make investors cautious at least until they see forward-looking estimates. Mark Gatto, co-founder and co-chief executive officer at CION Investment Group, says that global infrastructure spending estimated at as much as $3 trillion annually worldwide is creating an asset class that can overcome political challenges and that has significant earning potential, which is why his firm recently announced plans for the new CION Grosvenor Infrastructure Fund. And in the Market Call, Jason Browne, president of Alexis Investment Partners and the Alexis Practical Tactical fund talks about ETF investing.

Rob Arnott, chairman and founder of Research Affiliates, says that current markets resemble the dot-com markets in the narrative that everything is about to change due to technological advancements, but he notes that the dominant tech players from the year 2000 failed to beat the Standard & Poor's 500 index over the long-term future. He says that could happen again today with the artificial intelligence stocks, with the technology changing the world but the stocks having a less clear path forward. Arnott notes that the narratives have made the mega caps overvalued and the comparison to the dot-com era could continue with a market downturn, but he sees plenty of opportunities for investors who are willing to pursue deep value and small-cap strategies, as well as liquid alternatives and non-U.S. stocks to "have a decent shot at high single-digit returns" this year. Todd Rosenbluth, head of research at VettaFi, makes the exchange-traded version of a classic Fidelity fund his ETF of the Week, and Rob Lutts, president and chief investment officer at Cabot Wealth Management brings his classic growth investing style to the Market Call.

Bob Doll, chief investment officer at Crossmark Global Investments, foresees some slowdown in consumer activity this year — with middle-income consumers beginning to struggle — and he says that will lead to a sluggish economy with higher unemployment. He expects inflation to remain sticky, which will push the Federal Reserve to make fewer rate cuts — he says it's possible they make no rate reductions this year at all — though he does believe the economy can stave off a recession. He reviews his 10 forecasts for the year ahead in The Big Interview. But he's not the only guest gazing into the crystal ball for 2025, as Greg McBride, chief financial analyst at BankRate.com, talks about what to expect from interest rates on everything from mortgages to savings accounts over the next 12 months. And in the Market Call, David Allen of the Octane All-Cap Value Energy ETF talks about finding under-the-radar issues in the energy sector.

Kristy Akullian, head of iShares Investment Strategy for the Americas at BlackRock, says that "the most important thing we're watching is earnings" as an indicator for the year ahead, noting that in 2024 more of the performance came from earnings growth than from multiple expansion, particularly for the parts of the market like large-cap growth companies that had a banner year. While the stock market is still looking for interest rate cuts, Akullian says that earnings can overcome any disappointment that is likely as the Federal Reserve slows the pace of rate cuts. For the year ahead — and iShares released its outlook for 2025 today — she is expecting modest gains, no recession, and continued struggles for international markets and small-cap stocks. Kim Blanton, who writes the Squared Away blog for the Center for Retirement Research at Boston College, discusses research which shows that delaying Social Security pays off for couples, but particularly for high-income families who get the best possible outcomes by being patient and who — because of their income — can afford to wait to achieve that outcome. Plus, Chuck answers questions about Morningstar and VettaFi and mutual fund research and ratings.

Brian Jacobsen, chief economist at Annex Wealth Management, says that 2025 is likely to see the leaders from the last few years move sideways while the rest of the market "can get some more traction and play a little catch-up." He notes that if the market broadens out and those other companies see earnings growth, it can keep the bull market rolling and offset a slowdown in rate cuts from the Federal Reserve as the central bank responds to sticky inflation by slowing its pace of rate reductions. Scott Krase, wealth manager at Connor & Gallagher OneSource, makes his debut in the Market Call, talking about ETFs and how they particularly provide access to alternative asset classes in ways that ordinary investors can benefit from in current conditions. Chuck also reviews what he has long called his "change experiment," where he saves all of his cash below $10 bills, and how much that added up to not just in 2024 but since he started doing it in 2020.

Bob Doll, chief investment officer at Crossmark Global Investments, says that 2024 proved most pundits wrong, as they forecast years that were much more modest than the 25 percent that the stock market gained, with more economic struggles and more interest rate cuts from the Federal Reserve. His forecasts, however, proved mostly right, as he reviews 2024 in today's Big Interview. Speaking of a review of the year just finished, John Cole Scott of Closed-End Fund Advisors — the chairman of the Active Investment Company Alliance — looks back at the prognostications for the closed-end fund industry that he made a year ago and how the data now shows nearly all of them to have been correct. And as for prognostications, Adam Peck, co-founder of Riverwater Partners, makes a big one in the Market Call when he says that the cycles that have favored large-caps over small stocks are now long in the tooth, which is why he is expecting small-caps to outperform over the next 15 years.

Sam Stovall, chief investment strategist at CFRA Research, says 2025 will finish up a positive year, but it will likely be a year of single-digit gains that will be a struggle to achieve because the market is starting the year with stretched valuations and other headwinds. While he doesn't see a recession in the offing, Stovall sees other conditions making the market sluggish, ranging from the presidential cycle to the regular run of a bull market and more. Todd Rosenbluth, head of research at VettaFi, reviews the big stories in the exchange-traded fund business from 2024 and how some of those issues will keep playing out for ETFs and investors in the new year. Plus, in the Market Call, Jeff Auxier of the Auxier Focus Fund discusses business-centric, long-term investing.

Jim Lee, founder at StratFi, says investors can be "reasonably optimistic" about the first half of 2025, but says that by the time June rolls around "I'd start to get careful." Among the technical indicators Lee leans on is the "Kitchin Cycle," which runs 180 weeks (or three and a half years) and has a solid record over the last century, and the cycle is showing a market peak at the start of March in 2025. Less says the market has the momentum to keep rolling, but not too far past that peak in the Kitchin Cycle. Also on the show, Dana Miranda of the Healthy Rich newsletter discusses her new book, "You Don't Need a Budget: Stop Worrying About Debt, Spend Without Shame and Manage Money with Ease," Rita Assaf discusses the annual Financial Resolutions Study out from Fidelity, which showed a strong desire for "a year of living practically" in 2025, and Chuck discusses ways to measure the success of 2024, and how it fits into the big picture of both the market and of our personal lives.

Whether it is making resolutions, setting goals or establishing targets, Chuck has tried every kind of plan for financial self-improvement over his decades as a personal finance journalist, and today he talks about the importance of having a system that helps you focus on making progress and how to set yourself up to end 2025 better off than you are now. Also on the show, author Steven Foerster discusses his latest book, "Trailblazers, Heroes & Crooks: Stories to Make You a Smarter Investor," and Aniket Ullal, head of ETF data and analytics at CFRA Research talks exchange-traded funds in the Market Call.

Matt Hougan, chief investment officer at Bitwise Asset Management, says that the real story in cryptocurrency in 2024 has not been the massive gains in Bitcoin -- which is up about 120 percent year-to-date -- but the way the business has matured, adding crypto ETFs from some of Wall Street's biggest firms. Coupled with the new administration, which is crypto-friendly, it makes Hougan more positive about his outlook for the future, which he says includes plenty of room for crypto to run higher in 2025. John Cole Scott, president of Closed-End Fund Advisors, digs into his mountain of data to divine the stories he anticipates to be central to the closed-end fund landscape in the new year, and also delivers the names of five funds that he thinks are poised for breakout performances. Plus, financial adviser Patti Brennan helps answer the big question most investors want to know for the new year and beyond, as she discusses her new book, "Am I Going to Be Okay? Timely Intelligence, Actionable Ideas, Answers to the Questions that Really Matter."

Teralyn Pilgrim, author of "No Scrap Left Behind: My Life Without Food Waste," says that Americans are wasting significant dollars each month, simply with how they buy and use their groceries. She's not preaching radical lifestyle change as much is simply trying to plan and use food purchases efficiently to reduce or eliminate food waste. Todd Rosenbluth, head of research at VettaFi, reviews the year that was for ETFs; Kevin Roth, head of research for the CFP Board of Standards discusses the group's annual Debt and New Year's Resolution Report, which clearly shows that finances play a big role in New Year's resolutions. Plus,Sam Fleming, co-founder / chief technology officer at Moat Metrics, brings his firm's methods into focus in the Money Life Market Call.

Avi Gilburt, founder of Elliott Wave Trader, says the market is in the final throes of a bull market that has been in place for nearly a century, noting that while there may be one more high or buying opportunity before things are exhausted, he sees the market turning in the next few months, noting that the Standard & Poor's 500 decisively breaking the 5400 support level would be a sign that a bear market has begun. Then, Daniel Crosby, host of the Standard Deviations Podcast, discusses his new book, "The Soul of Wealth: 50 reflections on money and meaning;" After that, Allison Hadley talks about a new CardRates.com study showing that nearly half of Americans expect to return 1-3 gifts this holiday season. And in the Market Call, Scott Martindale, chief executive at Sabrient Systems, talks about picking "high performance stock portfolios," using the methods of Sabrient's founder, David Brown, who recently released a book on building a portfolio based on high-octane stocks.

Amanda Agati, chief investment officer at PNC Financial Services Group, says investors who are worried about the Federal Reserve not cutting interest rates as much as previously expected are missing the idea that it's a sign of a solid backdrop for economic growth. She notes that the market and investors "crave the sugar high from more policy accommodations," and are overlooking the potential for the market to move forward in 2025. "We're not going to put up the same kind of returns we did in the last two years," Agati says, "but I think the market can grow at a pace that aligns with earnings growth;" she says earnings could grow at a pace of 10 to 15 percent year over year. Financial adviser Harmon Kong, discusses his new book, "Values Over Valuables: Daring to Live the Life Money Can't Buy" and — speaking of what money can't buy — Melissa Stephenson discusses a Solitaire Bliss study which showed that many Americans are unable to afford travel and time off, making finances a big part of why many Americans will celebrate the holidays alone this year. Plus, Cynthia McLaughlin, investment editor at AAII — lead editor at VMQ Stocks — talks about value, momentum and quality investing in the Money Life Market Call.

Mary Ellen Stanek, chief investment officer at Baird Advisors — president of the Baird Funds — says that the need to slow interest rate cuts has been building for a while, but that it's a sign of a strong economy and it's good for bond investors, without taking all of the starch out of the stock market. She says this week's news from the Federal Reserve about slowing cuts doesn't change Baird's forecast for 2025, noting that they expected good values in bonds through the new year and that those yields only got better with the latest announcement from the central bank. Amanda Agati, chief investment officer at PNC Financial Services Group, discusses the wild rate of inflation seen in the firm's 41st annual Christmas Price Index, which this year showed that the cost of buying your true love the gifts from the 12 Days of Christmas would set you back nearly $50,000. Bryan Piccirillo discusses an Edward Jones survey which showed that 81 percent of Americans are confident in their ability to keep their financial resolutions — the big ones being building a savings account, paying off credit card debt and increasing income — despite the terrible success rate that resolutions normally have. Plus, Ken Burdon, a partner in the registered funds practice at Simpson Thacher and Bartlett, discusses how the return of President Donald Trump might benefit closed-end funds.

Frank Holmes, chief investment officer at U.S. Global Investors, sees the market as being due for a big correction after an "amazing move" over the last two years, but he also sees the market beginning a new era of capital innovation and creativity that will help to push the market back to new heights over the next few years. He notes that artificial intelligence will keep leading the way higher, though he says he typically prefers the AI-adjacent companies to the direct players in the space. He also discusses gold, crypto and more in a wide-ranging Big Interview. Todd Rosenbluth, head of research at VettaFi, looks to double down on the winners of the Nasdaq Composite with his pick for ETF of the Week, and Peter Schneider, president of Primerica, discusses the firm's latest Financial Security Monitor, which showed that recent gains in purchasing power don't have middle-income families feeling any better about their personal finances. In the Market Call, Ryan Jacob, chief investment officer of the Jacob Funds, talks technology stocks and where the next round of AI winners might come from.

Brent Schutte, chief investment officer at Northwestern Mutual Wealth Management Co., says that the current stock market reminds him of the late 1990s -- with a super strong dollar, a few stocks driving the market while the others are mediocre, where the American market and economy are exceptional and more -- but as economic seasons changed, it was the rest of the market that thrived. That's what he sees happening again now, so he is preaching diversification, especially toward small-cap stocks but also with international investments and commodities, as a way of growing and protecting a portfolio in 2025. In The Book Interview, financial columnist and historian Rodney Brooks discusses "The Rise and Fall of the Freedman's Savings Bank and It's Lasting Socio-Economic Impact on Black America," and Eric Schoenstein, portfolio manager and chief investment officer at Jensen Investment Management discusses quality investing in The Market Call.

Jack Ablin, chief investment officer at Cresset Capital Management, says that the market is about 25 percent overvalued, but the momentum of the market suggests that investors shouldn't worry about an immediate downturn. Ablin says that traditional value metrics show the overvaluation and says that lofty prices eventually meet up with momentum that gets exhausted, leading to "a pretty good exit point." But he notes that "Value is always early," and there "still a lot more room" for the market to run before it rolls over. In the Talking Technicals segment, Gene Peroni, founder of Peroni Portfolio Advisors, also sees the market's potential for downturn, but he says that the market has effectively ignored Wall Street adages, cyclical and seasonal factors, psychological considerations and has moved to its own beat, with a strong technical foundation that should enable it to weather storms and turn any potential downturns into buying opportunities. In the Money Life Market Call, Andrey Kutusov, portfolio manager at Seven Canyons Advisors, talks high-growth small-cap international/emerging markets stocks.

Disagreement makes a market, and the market on Robinhood Markets was wide open on this show as David Trainer of New Constructs put the stock in The Danger Zone, but Tom Martin, senior portfolio manager at Globalt Investments, made the stock a "buy" during "Quick and Dirty" in the Money Life Market Call. Also on the show, Paula Fleming of the Better Business Bureau of Eastern Massachusetts, Maine, Rhode Island and Vermont talks about personalization scams — where people are being ripped off in multiple ways while buying personalized gifts for the holidays — and discusses how to avoid holiday frauds. Plus, Lauren FitzHugh, vice president of growth at Fruition — Money Life's newest sponsor — discusses the benefits of having all of your investment, bank and spending accounts linked together in one place, and the peace of mind that comes with better control of your finances.

Despite headlines that have dominated the news stating concerns about the stock market and its ability to keep thriving under a new political administration, Mick Heyman, founder of Heyman Investment Counseling, doesn't see the warning signs of a terrible market. "Close your eyes, it's fear of heights, and just let the long-term trend continue on," Heyman said. He is not the only one who sees little trouble evident on the horizon, as Vuk Vuković, chief investment officer at Oraclum Capital, sees the economy being able to avoid a recession throughout 2025. Ravi Chintapalli from the Global Fixed Income team at Nuveen, says in The NAVigator that structural changes have made the junk bond market stronger, while reducing default risk; as a result, yields of 7 percent should be normal and comfortable in 2025. Plus Mac Sykes, portfolio manager at Gabelli talks financial stocks in the Market Call.

Ben Harburg, founder of CoreValues Alpha — manager of the firm's Greater China Growth ETF — says that consumers in China have over $21 trillion in household savings sitting on the shelf and that as that money starts to be spent, it will drive the Chinese market to a long recovery. That should be happening at a time when Chinese stocks "are near rock bottom" but U.S. equities have been running to record highs, making China a good diversifier for American investors looking for protection against a setback here. Todd Rosenbluth, head of research at VettaFi, turns to a free cash-flow ETF that opened in 2023 and that has risen to the top of its large-cap value peer group this year as his ETF of the Week. In the Market Call, Noland chief executive officer at Left Brain Wealth Management, returns to the show to discuss his version of growth investing; one area he particularly likes now is the big cruise companies.

Dan Fuss, vice chairman at Loomis Sayles & Co. — one of the longest-tenured and most decorated bond fund managers in history — says that the Federal Reserve has done its job and managed to avoid most of the trouble that observers feared was coming. Moreover, it has positioned the economy and the bond market to keep humming along. Yet Fuss also singles out several factors, including climate change and geo-politics, that are not usually factors in bond investing that are having a big impact on bond investing now. WalletHub analyst Chip Lupo discusses the site's research on the best and most-popular gift cards for the holiday season, and Tobias Carlisle, founder of the Acquirers Funds, talks in the Market Call about how he practices deep-value investing at a time when the market is at record-high levels.

Louis Navellier, chief investment officer at Navellier & Associates, says investors "have a lot to look forward to," starting with a strong ending to the year and a big January effect, but he notes that conditions are right to keep the economy chugging along and pushing through the occasional stumble and correction. That said, he notes in The Big Interview that he is worried about the potential for trouble in the private credit market — where investors have been chasing super high yields for several years — to potentially create a full-blown market crash, akin to what the market experienced in 2008. Navellier also talks about his stock-picking methodology and his grading system in The Market Call. In the Talking Technicals segment, Xander Gray, founder and chief executive officer at XG Capital Strategies says that there's a recession and significant market drop coming, likely to start before the end of the first quarter of the new year. The recession is the fallout of the inverted yield curve; while many experts have said the economy will avoid the downturn that typically comes with that condition, Gray says there are plenty of reasons why investors should remain defensive now.

Todd Kellenberger, portfolio manager for public REITs at Principal Asset Management, expects that the Federal Reserve will make two to three interest rate cuts in 2025, but that the way rates move will be the real determinant in how the year plays out for real estate investors. Kellenberger says that the central bank's actions will be determined by inflation and jobs data, but he notes that if rates stay benign it will still be a good market for real estate, with the potential for much more if rates move more and the economy has a soft landing where real estate fundamentals improve. He gives his outlook for a variety of REIT types in a wide-ranging Big Interview. David Trainer, founder and president at New Constructs puts MicroStrategy Inc. in the Danger Zone, noting that the company is essentially a costly, leveraged play on bitcoin with more risk than an investor would face just owning cryptocurrency directly. And Michael Lowenberg, portfolio manager for the Modern Capital Tactical Income fund, talks in the Money Life Market Call about what he looks for in closed-end funds.

Brandon Thurber, chief market strategist at Regions Asset Management, says the market is looking strong for the next 12 to 18 months, provided it can avoid a big earnings shortfall. With high earnings expectations, he sees earnings pressure overhanging a market that is overbought but which still has pockets that represent good values. Thurber sees the market broadening out, with mid-caps being part of the rally but small companies likely to keep struggling, delivering moderate growth despite increased levels of volatility than investors have seen this year. Likewise, Buck Klintworth of Chase Investment Counsel — co-manager of the Chase Growth Fund — says that all of the market's underlying fundamentals are positive right now, and he suggests to stick with a friendly trend, even though they should look for "any cracks that begin to develop" that could be signs that the economy is turning. Kevin Mahn, president and chief investment officer at Hennion & Walsh Asset Management — which runs the Smart Trust Unit Investment Trusts — expects that rate cuts in the next two years will drive investors to turn for income alternatives "since they can't find the 5 percent in the short-term CDs any more." That will drive investors toward business development companies and leveraged municipal closed-end funds, and he discusses the benefits of playing those areas of the market using unit investment trusts.

Lauren Sanfilippo, senior investment strategist for Bank of America Merrill and Private Bank, says that the market has reached highs on the backs of a few stocks, but that it is now rotating away from those popular trades. That will reward investors who stay balanced and diversified as the market broadens out next year, moving away from the Magnificent Seven stocks and a few names driving results to rewarding more companies with solid balance sheets in sectors from defense to technology, industrials and more. Todd Rosenbluth, head of research at VettaFi, makes a short-duration, actively managed fixed-income fund his ETF of the Week. WalletHub analyst Chip Lupo, discusses the site's research into how average rates on department-store credit cards have popped to roughly 33 percent, but also how consumers looking to deferred interest deals wind up paying more because they don't understand how the programs work. Plus, Chuck answers a listener's question about paper stock certificates.

Simeon Hyman, global investment strategist at ProShares, sees "rational exuberance" on today's market, noting that the stock market is a little bit expensive but not dramatically above long-term normal forward earnings numbers, and he notes that expectations are reasonable, a little high but reasonable. Further, he suggests that all-time low levels of leverage and little debt on the books of the Standard & Poor's 500 is "a significant risk offset" to the current worries that make investors nervous. Author Michael Sincere — who writes the Long-Term Trader column at MarketWatch — discusses his new book, "Help Your Child Build Wealth: A Parents' Guide to Teaching Children to be Successful Investors," and then sticks around to discuss technical analysis and how he sees the market moving on from the election and through the change of administrations into 2025.

Josef Schuster, president of IPOX Schuster, says that the market for initial public offerings isn't just hot right now — it has outperformed the stock market this year, despite the market having gone up to record-high levels — but it is safer than it has been in years, with fewer issues going public and with much of the risk of default having been shifted to the pre-IPO market. And while artificial-intelligence plays have gotten a lot of the headlines and attention, Schuster says that industrials and other sectors have seen more stable and generally more profitable IPO activity. Lester Jones, chief economist for the National Wholesale Beer Association says that the November Beer Purchasers Index shows a highly unusual but completely neutral outlook for distributor sentiment, meaning the industry can't tell if times are bullish or bearish with year-end in sight. Plus college financial aid advisor Jack Wang, host of the new "Smart College Buyer" podcast, helps Chuck answer a listener's question about college loans coming due, and jeopardinging an unprepared parent's finances.

Bill Smead, manager of the Smead Value Fund, (SMVLX), says that the market has "all the pre-conditions for the [Standard and Poor's 500 to do very poorly," noting that current conditions are the "antithesis of 1980," when everyone got excited about Ronald Reagan took office at a time when stocks were cheap and inflation and interest rates are high. This time, he says, people are getting excited "at the end of a huge run .... a financial euphoria episode." He says in the Market Call that these conditions will lead to strong market performance over the next two decades, but to much tougher sledding over the next few years. One area that investors might turn to for relief would be gold, which has been on a big run in 2024 to get to record-high levels, and Everett Millman, precious metals specialist at Gainesville Coins, says he thinks that precious metals rally and gains are sustainable for at least the next 18 months — even if it goes through a short-term correction caused by profit-taking — because the conditions that have created the rally are likely to remain in place. Plus, Allison Hadley discusses a study fone for Luke Zion Jewelry which showed that Americans spend nearly $1,500 a year on "fashion."

John Cole Scott, president of Closed-End Fund Advisors and the chairman of the Active Investment Company Alliance, looks at how discounts have narrowed in closed-end funds amid the strong market this year, but he digs into his firm's data to find three closed-end funds and one business development company trading at attractive discounts to make them appropriate picks for year-end portfolio moves. Julia Toothacre discusses a ResumeTemplates.com, study showing that six-in 10 employees will be shopping Black Friday sales while at work today, Chuck discusses the ultimate financial gift to give your relatives this (and every year) -- so that you can get your shopping done before the shopping season even starts in earnest -- and Eric Marshall, president of Hodges Capital Management, talks small-cap investing in the Market Call.

Talley Leger, chief market strategist at The Wealth Consulting Group, likes small-cap stocks, financials and consumer discretionary and industrial companies, saying he expects a lot of the recent winners to slow as part of a shift in leadership that could lead to a market that slows or creates attractive buying opportunities with intermediate-term losses. Todd Rosenbluth, head of research at VettaFi, returns to the Standard & Poor's 500 for the second week in a row, but this time picks an all-time classic that has been having record inflows as his "ETF of the Week." And in the Market Call, Christopher Zook, president of CAZ Investments, talks about looking for long-term themes, but buying them at reasonable prices, and discusses how that has him handling a hot space like artificial intelligence.

Carley Garner, senior commodity strategist at DeCarley Trading, sees the stock market completing its current rally with a small gain that would move the Standard and Poor's 500 to about 6,200. But once the holiday euphoria passes, she sees the market being hit, taking the S&P 500 down to roughly 4800. She also worries about how gold and oil prices will play out as the second Trump administration follows through on some of its campaign promises. Mark Hamrick, senior economic analyst and Washington bureau chief at BankRate.com, discusses the site's latest survey on Americans' Social Security needs, noting that more than half of the nation's not-yet-retired workers expect to rely on the program to pay for "necessary expenses," but nearly three-quarters of Americans are concerned they won't get their promised benefits once they hit retirement age. Plus, Chuck answers a listener's questions about hiring a financial adviser to help manage an inheritance.

The National Association for Business Economics released its November Outlook Survey today, and nearly all of the economists surveyed expect moderating growth and slowing inflation but, most importantly, no recession until at least 2026. Kathy Bostjancic, chief economist at Nationwide and the outlook survey chairperson for NABE, called the results "Goldilock-ish," noting that forecasting firmer growth and slower inflation than they did in September, the economists are effectively expecting a near-perfect landing for the economy, with downside expectations decreased. David Trainer, founder and president at New Constructs, revisits Beyond Meat, noting that a number of different Danger Zone picks have recently had big rebounds, but that the plant-based meat maker hasn't gotten that kind of life support from the market, which is why he expects it to complete its destiny as a "zombie stock" in 2025. Plus, Nael Fakhry, portfolio manager for the Osterweis Growth and Income fund, discusses "quality growth companies" in the Market Call.

After waiting over three years for "one of the worst recessions ever anticipated that never happened," Edward Yardeni, president and chief investment strategist at Yardeni Research, says that the economy is now moving forward without much recession worry, buoyed by consumer spending — especially from Baby Boomers — and rate cuts from the Federal Reserve that he considered mostly unnecessary. Yardeni sees the economy going through another "Roaring 20s" period, and while the one a century ago ended in the Great Depression, he does think that outcome is not inevitable provided the government can keep debt and deficit levels under control while riding out the benefits of the "Digital Revolution" that includes all of the excitement around artificial intelligence and technology. Kendall Dilley, portfolio manager at Vineyard Global Advisors says the market's technicals are showing all green lights for a continuing bull market, and investors should lean in and treat downturns as buying opportunities. Dilley makes a case for the Standard & Poor's 500 to reach 7,500, getting as high as 6,400 by year's end, with only "normal pullbacks" on the road to that higher level. Plus, we revisit a recent conversation with Axel Merk, president and chief investment officer at Merk Investments — manager of the ASA Gold and Precious Metals — on why gold has worked better as a geo-political hedge than as a buffer against inflation.

George Bory, chief investment strategist for fixed income at Allspring Global Investments, says that 'the soft landing was earlier this year,' and now the Federal Reserve is trying to "prevent a recession in an otherwise fairly healthy but unevenly distributed economy." Bory notes that central bankers typically cut interest rates to stimulate a slowing economy, but that's not the case currently in the United States, where he says the Fed is trying to bring rates down more in line with inflation, and that has changed the shape of the yield curve, dropping short-term rates but making it that long-term rates — including mortgage rates — aren't likely to fall by much even with additional rate cuts. Todd Rosenbluth, head of research at VettaFi picks a market-index fund with an options overlay — an ETF that's delivering yields of roughly 9 percent — as his "ETF of the Week." Thomas Cole, co-founder of Distillate Capital — a firm that makes "stability" a prime factor in its investment methodology — brings his numbers-oriented value-investing approach to the Money Life Market Call.

Nick Nefouse, global head of retirement solutions in the multi-asset strategies and solutions team at BlackRock, says that in a world where investors are increasingly nervous about sequence-of-return risk — the potential for the market to crater just as they start withdrawing from their retirement nestegg, forever damaging their finances — and longevity risk, investors may be looking for ways to lock in income, so that they can avoid those concerns. He discusses how investors should be reconsidering risk as they enter "the retirement window," which he notes starts in your 50s and runs for some people into their 70s. Jon Stubbs, analyst at Clever Real Estate, talks about what has been happening to the average real estate commission in light of a settlement that was supposed to change the way buyer's agents were compensated and reduce costs for seller in the process. Plus, Chuck discusses a little error he made in a financial transaction this weekend that could have turned into a huge problem, and how and why it is crucial that consumers using payment apps understand that they may be on the hook for blunders, no matter how innocent and unintentional.

Adam Turnquist, chief technical strategist at LPL Financial expects the stock market's return levels to "return to normal," which means slower growth but not anything that ends the bull market as it rolls through its third year. Turnquist does think the short-term action has put the bulls on trial, forcing them to prove that the market can go higher without some sort of interim downturn. Turnquist thinks the market could take a setback to its Halloween lows, but that action would be an opportunity to buy the dip. Charlie Bobrinskoy, vice chairman and portfolio manager at Ariel Investments, brings his classic, Warren Buffett-style of value investing to the Market Call, and Chuck talks about how the car dealer who sold his step-daughter the car that exacerbated her ear problems resolved the issue over this weekend, and the valuable — and pricey — lessons he and his step-daughter took away from the process.