Money Life with Chuck Jaffe

Darrell Cronk, chief investment officer at Wells Fargo Wealth and Investment Management says that investors can expect a recession and market troubles during the first half of the New Year, but a recovery to start later on, noting that he expects the stock market to bottom out while the economy gets to where interest rates and inflation start becoming more reasonable. Cronk says that investors looking to be back in the market next year should be dipping into sectors where demand is consistent regardless of the economy, meaning health care, life sciences, defense companies and energy stocks. Also on the show, Tom Lydon, vice chairman at VettaFi -- the founder of ETF Trends -- reverts to his roots and makes a trend-following fund his pick as the ETF of the Week and, in the Market Call, Scot Bennett of Invest With Rules talks about how the rules apply and how well they have been working in today's difficult market conditions.

Roger Aliaga-Diaz, Americas chief economist and head of global portfolio construction at The Vanguard Group, says that the Federal Reserve and other central banks will be reluctant to stop interest-rate hikes in 2023, and while they will get inflation under control it will be a slow process to get it down to the 2 percent level they are hoping for until at least 2024 and possibly 2025. As a result, any economic recovery is likely to be lackluster, featuring more choppiness and sideways movements than significant, fast rebounds. Alliaga-Diaz says the stock market looks better now than a year ago -- when it was trading at up to 40 percent over fair value -- but that it is positioned to deliver between 6 and 10 percent annualized over the next decade, which means returns going forward will struggle to reach historic norms. In the Market Call, Rob Spivey, director of research at Valens Securities, says he expects a 'supply chain super cycle' to help sustain or even spur economic growth as consumer spending slows in the face of inflation, which should support the economy as it goes through a transition, but he notes that those conditions should make stock investors particularly picky about what they are buying now. Plus, Chuck answers a listener's question about tax-loss harvesting.

Dana Telsey, chief executive/chief research officer at Telsey Advisory Group -- a leading analyst of the retail industry -- says she is cautious about the status of consumers and how they will respond to continuing inflation, noting that spending has moderated a bit. Telsey thinks retailers will see less spending and success than the last two years, but she thinks that retailers who can get through these times without much leftover inventory will be healthy enough to weather the storm that's coming early in 2023; she expects that to spur a few last-minute deals that consumers can take advantage of this week. Also on the show, Chuck answers a listener's question on how to beat back sequence-of-return risk, Fidelity's Meredith Stoddard discusses the firm's 14th annual survey on financial New Year's resolutions, and Stephen Dodson, manager of The Bretton Fund, talks stocks in the Market Call.

Liz Ann Sonders, chief investment strategist for Charles Schwab and Co. says that investors should be hoping that the medicine necessary to help a weaker economy reduce the inflationary fever would be best taken sooner than later, leading to 'a much more meaningful deterioration of the economy ... that sets up a Fed pause.' With that in mind, Sonders expects more short-term market pain, setting up a recovery and better opportunities beyond that. David Trainer of New Constructs puts Digital Realty Trust back into the Danger Zone this week, noting that while the stock is already down significantly, it could drop another 75 percent before he thinks the market price will reflect the company's true value. Plus, Vivian Tsai, chairman of the College Savings Foundation discusses programs for gifting future college tuition monies for the holidays, and Bryan Armour, director of passive strategies research at Morningstar, makes his debut in the Market Call talking investments in exchange-traded funds.

Barry Ritholtz, chairman and chief investment officer at Ritholtz Wealth Management, says that with the market being driven by inflation, there is a very slim chance that the Federal Reserve 'sticks the landing, gets it just right and we're off to the races again,' but an equally small worry about the central bank taking rates too high and making a giant mistake that craters the market. He believes the Federal Reserve likely lands somewhere in the middle, triggering a small, shallow recession. Ritholtz says investors need to stay focused on their goals and not get too excited by market moves in 2023, noting 'You have to be short-term greedy, not long-term greedy.' Also on the show, Stacey Morris, head of energy research at VettaFi, talks midstream energy infrastructure investing in The NAVigator segment and, in the Market Call, Eric Schoenstein, chief investment officer at Jensen Investment Management discusses focusing on quality amid volatile, choppy markets.

Mike Liss, portfolio manager for the American Century Value fund -- who uses a relative-value approach and is always trying to find the stocks that are "most undervalued" -- says that there has been a shift in what represents a great risk-reward since the beginning of 2022. While energy stocks remain a reasonable value, Liss says that health care, industrial and real estate investment trusts are areas that have become particularly attractive entering the new year. Also on the show, Tom Lydon of VettaFi makes a small, young fund that focuses on offsetting carbon emissions as his ETF of the Week, Matt Schulz of LendingTree discusses holiday financial stress and how inflation and rising interest rates are contributing to consumers' agitation this year, and Chuck talks about Wednesday's news that the Securities and Exchange Commission is advancing its first big changes to trading rules in nearly two decades.

Sam Stovall, chief market strategist for CFRA Research says that investors in 2023 will find out "the difference between an all-weather radial tire and a 30-percent total return," with one being "a Goodyear and the other a great year." Dad jokes aside, his look ahead for the New Year includes the idea that 2023 will not be a repeat of 2022, and while there will still be significant volatility, he otherwise thinks that the market's leadership will turn over, with lagging sectors coming to the fore and the few hot places of the market receding. Moreover, he expects solid returns from the stock and bond market, though he thinks it may take until the second half of the year for those gains to materialize. Also on the show, Ed Carson of Investor's Business Daily discusses the rebound in investor optimism -- it was a big move, though the IBD/TIPP Economic Optimism Index remains in pessimistic territory -- and Louis Navellier of Navellier and Associates talks growths tocks in the Market Call.

Harry Dent, the founder of Dent Research, says that the stock market's troubles in 2022 were just a precursor to real trouble, with the next wave in a downward cycle coming early next year, right after the market wakes up to the fact that there is neither a Santa Claus rally or a January effect to get the new year started on good footing. Dent has been calling for a market decline of 85 percent or more in stocks -- moving from their peak to their trough -- and sees the massive decline being the next step, but he notes that the one silver lining is that bond funds are set up to not only be a safe haven but for significant gains. Also, he notes that once the market completes the crash cycle, he expects the next long bull market to begin. Dent's opinions tend to be outliers, and that is proven on this show as D.R. Barton Jr., chief investment strategist at Finiac, says he actually expects a Santa Claus rally this year, and he believes that technical indicators are showing that a market bottom may already be in place. He expects the new year will be more of the old one, volatile, choppy and with a lot of downward pressure just as we've seen in 2022. Plus, the Book Interview features Howard Yaruss, author of 'Understandable Economics: Because Understanding Our Economy Is Easier Than You Think and More Important Than You Know.'

Brian Nick, chief investment strategist at Nuveen, says that a soft landing for the economy is achievable, so long as inflation comes down without dramatically increasing the unemployment rate. He says it's 'so far, so good,' in terms of current conditions, though he notes it is still early. Nick expects a mild recession in 2023, but says 'Investors can get some pretty good deals with some of the yields that are available across the spectrum in fixed income, and that includes the equity markets too,' noting that dividend payers and growers are well positioned for the New Year. Dave Breazzano of Polen Capital Credit talks about the state of the corporate credit and high-yield markets, noting that the market's expectation that high interest rates will create more bankruptcies has priced paper attractively for investors who don't expect a spike in defaults. Also on the show, investment analyst Kyle Guske of New Constructs puts Five9 in 'The Danger Zone' as the latest 'zombie stock' with a destiny of running out of cash before it can run up any profits, plus Chuck answers a listener's question about deciding the best time to take Social Security.

Dan Fuss, vice chairman at Loomis Sayles, says that while interest rates and inflation are rising, the rate of those increases is slowing, and that part of the classic cycle doesn't ever get resolved quickly. is part of the classic cycle that has historically taken time to work out. The 89-year-old bond investing legend says the Federal Reserve has a tough job on its hands and places the central bank's odds of being successful in executing a soft landing are about 10 percent, though he thinks there's a better chance that it can push through the cycle without a downturn turning into a crash. Also on the show, Chuck answers a listener's question on how many stocks, funds and ETFs is too many for one investor to won, and portfolio manager Steve O'Neill of RiverNorth discusses why 'Tis the season for investors to go bargain hunting and discount shopping for closed-end funds.

Jeff Rosenkranz, manager of the Shelton Tactical Credit Fund, says that the fixed-income market is waiting for proof that the Federal Reserve's moves are starting to beat back inflation, but that stability in interest rates -- likely to be in place until the Fed starts cutting rates late in 2023 or into 2024 -- will drive good performance in fixed income over the next six to 12 months. Rosenkranz says that will help investors who are about to live through a recession which he says will be 'harder rather than softer in nature.' On the ETF of the Week, Tom Lydon of VettaFi discusses a China fund that is on the upswing but not quite yet trending, which he says investors may want to add to their watchlist entering the New Year. Also on the show, Anthony Sassine, senior investment strategist at KraneShares, gives his assessment of the electric vehicle sector -- going way beyond Tesla -- and Chuck answers a listener's question about ways to save a little more money in 2023.

Jonathan Mondillo, head of North American fixed income for abrdn, expects the Federal Reserve to do two more big interest rate hikes -- one now and one in the first quarter of 2023 -- which will keep the bond market choppy, but he believes the worst pain the bond market has suffered this year has passed. He expects the Fed to pause for the remainder of 2023, rather than pivot in its policies, with inflation having peaked but receding slowly. Mondillo cites strong fixed-income fundamentals -- particularly for municipal bonds -- despite the economic slowdown he sees ahead. Eric Veiel, head of global equity for T. Rowe Price, discusses the firm's recent research showing how its active management strategies outperformed appropriate index benchmarks over the last 20 years, and points out that active management doesn't necessarily deserve the bad name that indexing has given it in that time frame. Also on the show, Chuck answers a question about taking required minimum distributions from retirement accounts given current market conditions, and we revisit a recent Market Call interview with Amber Fairbanks, portfolio manager at Mirova.

Benjamin Halliburton, founder and chief investment officer at the Building Benjamins investment newsletter, says that inflation and interest rates bottoming out last year after a decline/trend that lasted for 40 years has now put investors into a new territory, forcing them to consider areas and industries that benefitted from decades of disinflation. It's the biggest inflection point of most investors' lifetimes, he says, but it's an adjustment that people will need to make to keep the profits rolling in the changed conditions they'll see for years to come. Also on the show, Washington Post columnist Helaine Olen discusses how Medicare Advantage will be used by more consumers this year than traditional Medicare coverage, and how that is creating a disadvantage to the country and to the many people who don't understand entirely what they are signing up for and who are falling for bad commercial messages. Plus, Chuck talks about giving gifts of stock for the children and grandchildren in your life.

Ben Ashby, head of investments at Rayliant Global Advisors, says that the U.S. stock market may be better positioned than the rest of the world right now, that's mostly because the outlook for almost all global markets right now is grim. He's anticipating trouble -- and sparse to no growth for the U.S. market and economy -- with little reason for optimism expected until the end of next year. Meanwhile, he described three types of bear markets -- apa Bear, Mama Bear and Baby Bear -- and says he thinks current problems will lead to the middle ground, but notes that a Mama Bear can be deep and difficult. Jack Kleinhenz, chief economist for the national Retail Federation and a member of the National Association for Business Economics Outlook Survey Committee discusses the results of the latest poll of economists, released today, showing that the researchers aren't holding out much optimism for 2023. Plus, Kyle Guske, investment analyst at New Constructs, puts another 'zombie stock' into The Danger Zone and in the Market Call, Andy Braun, portfolio manager for the Pax Large Cap fund, talks about stocks.

Paul Gruenwald, chief economist at S and P Global Ratings, sees trouble ahead for the economy early in 2023, as it moves through a recession and adjusts to slowing growth that is likely to be negative early on before picking up in May or June. Even with those gains, he expects the year to be flat on growth overall until 2024. Also on the show, Chris Oberbeck, chairman and chief executive at Saratoga Investment Corp. -- a large business-development company -- talks about the edge that BDCs have given income investors during today's sluggish market conditions and discusses why he thinks that advantage could grow as the market works through a potential recession. Plus, Brent Wilsey, president of Wilsey Asset Management, covers stocks in the Market Call.

Michael Kelly, portfolio manager and global head of multi-asset at PineBridge Investments, says that investors should expect volatile choppy markets -- moving sideways at best -- while the economy pivots away from the rising inflation and interest rate trend, but that investors shouldn't expect much good news until at least May of 2023. Kelly says that he expects China to pivot on some of its policies early in 2023, which will make its economy and stock market the only market with higher cash flows and an easier central bank come springtime, encouraging investment there while the rest of the world markets are volatile and choppy. He also suggests that investors will want to take the reasonable yields they can get on bonds while waiting for the equity markets to improve. Also on the show today, Tom Lydon, vice chairman at VettaFi goes international with a trend-following pick for his ETF of the Week, Mark Hamrick, senior economic analyst at Bankrate.com discusses all of the action around jobs and the labor market this week and what it portends for the news cycle and the stock market, and Chuck answers a listener's question about tax-loss harvesting, which he notes might be as popular with investors this year as holiday shopping is with consumers.

Alan McKnight, chief investment officer at Regions Asset Management, says that fallout from the current global supply-chain crisis will be a worldwide shift to there is going to "near-sourcing," the ability to have suppliers closer to home, which will lead to Corporate American spending money to make it happen, which should benefit industrial companies and energy stocks moving forward. Those sectors plus health care should be leading as the market and economy head into a volatile 2023 that McKnight says may not include a recession if the Federal Reserve gets its moves right. Also on the show, Bankrate.com analyst Sarah Foster returns to the show to discuss how inflation has been hitting some of the biggest holiday expense items hard and how higher costs could be the Grinch to steal Christmas traditions this year, plus we revisit a recent chat all about the financial and banking sectors with David Ellison, portfolio manager for the Hennessy Large-Cap Financial and Hennessy Small-Cap Financial funds.

Glory Liu, author of "Adam Smith's America: How a Scottish Philosopher Became an Icon of American Capitalism," says that people evoking the famous economist's memory to support their thinking are typically wrong about his teachings, noting that the patron saint of capitalism had a lot of ideas that have mostly been forgotten by leaders and politicians trying to appropriate his fame and use it as an endorsement. She suggests it might be a warning sign as to what is being promoted using Smith as a tool. Also on the show, Patrick Fisher, founder of Creation Investments Capital Management, discusses active ESG investments in banking, micro-loans and fintech in underserved parts of the world, plus retirement planner Jeremy Keil of Keil Financial Partners talks about the impact that sustained inflation is having on senior clients and how people can respond and plan to get through price hikes.

Eric Boughton, portfolio manager/chief analyst at Matisse Capital -- which runs mutual funds that invest in closed-end funds -- says that investors can find attractive discounts in a few sectors right now, notably in municipal bonds, high-yield and bank-loan funds are worth investigating in fixed income, with foreign stocks and MLP funds (investing in master limited partnerships) leading the opportunity set in equities. Boughton notes that investors can do significant "discount capture" -- making profitable trades as discounts to net asset value narrow and change, using that volatility as an additional way to generate profits. Also on the show, Bankrate.com analyst Sarah Foster discusses the pressure consumers are feeling -- and especially younger shoppers -- to spend up this holiday season, plus we revisit a late October interview with Chris Davis, portfolio manager and chairman of Davis Advisors, a conversation Chuck has described as "one of the very best interviews we will do on the show this year."

It's Black Friday, ahead of Cyber Monday and the start of the home stretch for holiday shopping, but it's not just about what's happening with retailers. John Cole Scott, chief investment officer at Closed-End Fund Advisors sorts through the big discounts in the closed-end fund world right now and comes up with four issues -- two in stocks and two in fixed-income -- that would be sound additions to an investor's holiday wish list now. Then the talk turns to retail fraud as Melanie McGovern of the International Association of Better Business Bureaus, discusses how online fraud losses thus far in 2022 have hit record levels of nearly $400 million before the holiday shopping season even gets up to speed, then Julie Ramhold of DealNews talks about the differences between Black Friday and Cyber Monday and how consumers can make the most of both days and the rest of the holiday bargains, plus Chuck discusses steps that listeners can take to keep the holidays in perspective during times of rising interest rates and high inflation.

Colin McWey, portfolio manager at Heartland Advisors, says that current market conditions are setting up well for value-oriented investors, because it is clear that many companies e market is building a scenario where a lot of companies will be worth much more in three to five years, although a number of stocks that were overpriced in 2020 and '21 will never re-attain past highs. The wash-out of companies that had a disconnect between fundamentals and enormous expectations was necessary, McWey says, but now the market is going through a healthy cleansing where the market is starting to respect a valuation discipline again, focusing on fundamentals in order to realize that profit potential as the market rebounds in the next few years. Also on the show, Tom Lydon of VettaFi makes a dividend-income fund with a covered-call strategy his pick for ETF of the Week, Regina Conway of Slickdeals discusses consumers' shopping expectations for Black Friday and hedge-fund manager Steven Grey of Grey Value Management talks about stocks in the Money Life Market Call.

John Kosar, chief market strategist at Asbury Research, says that the market has reached a key point, and he believes the lows the market made in June and retouched in October -- in the 3,500 range for the standard & Poor's 500 -- will stick, and last several quarters. He remains positive on the market for now, noting that his key indicators remain green, but notes he won't be surprised if the market re-tests those lows before moving forward again in 2023. Also on the show, Amanda Agati, chief investment officer at PNC Asset Management, discusses the rising cost of the "12 Days of Christmas," noting that inflation in the firm's Christmas Price Index is running even higher than inflation elsewhere in the economy, and how that reflects current events and broad economic conditions, author Paul Tucker discusses his new book, "Global Discord: Values and Power in a Fractured World Order" and, in the Market Call, Hank Smith, head of investment strategy at The Haverford Trust Co., discusses large-cap companies with a history of paying/raising dividends.

Brian Overby, senior markets strategist at Ally, says that the market is in a good place to have a Santa Claus rally into the end of the year, boosted by the strong consumer, but he noted that good news could carry into 2023 with an economy that could actually pull off a soft landing so long as employment, inflation and spending numbers stay where expected and continue current trends. Overby noted that while current conditions are rocky, it makes for a selective buying opportunity while waiting for the Federal Reserve to show its cards for the new year. Also on the show, Marc Zeitoun of Columbia Threadneedle discusses a survey showing that advisers and investors are looking for more flexible strategies to get by in rough markets, David Trainer of New Constructs puts a low-priced maker of oat milk and similar products in "The Danger Zone" and, in the Market Call, Bernie Horn, manager of the Polaris Global Value Fund talks about buying stocks in the messy market conditions currently being experienced around the world.

Jacob Channel, senior economist at LendingTree, says that while everyone is counting on the Federal Reserve to beat back inflation and tackle the economic problems facing the nation, 'the reality is that some of the issues we are facing aren't the kind of issues that the Fed has the ability to fix." He warns that if global supply chains struggle, prices will remain high no matter what happens with interest rates, and a worst-case scenario would be stagflation where unemployment is rising but prices email high; while that is not his base case for what's next, he expects a recession in 2023 as the price paid for getting a handle on inflation and returning the economy to more normal times. Also on the show, Michael Grayson, portfolio manager for three interval funds from First Trust Capital Management, says that investors should be giving up some liquidity to get the flexibility to invest in assets that their standard mutual fund or ETF can't hold responsibly, allowing investors to generate decent returns at times when the rest of the market is struggling. Plus, Jamie Dunaway-Seale of Clever Real Estate discusses the site's recent survey showing that a surprising number of home sellers are feeling remorse for the move they made, and Chuck answer's a listener's question on where to park short-term cash now to generate yield responsibly without taking on too much risk.

Barry Metzger, managing director of trading and education at Charles Schwab, says that the firm's latest trader sentiment survey shows that nearly 60% of traders feel like the United States is already in a recession or will be in one by the end of the year, with nearly that entire group believing that the economic slowdown will last less than one year. These traders -- investors who make 80 or more transactions in a year, but not part of the day-trading community -- are largely bearish, but believe there are opportunities in energy, health care and consumer staples. They are rotating toward value stocks and fixed income. In the ETF of the Week, Tom Lydon of VettaFi talks about a fund that was up double-digits just a week ago off of the inflation news, a move so big that it moved the ETF above its 200-day moving average and put it back into buying territory. Chuck answers a listener's question on cryptocurrency trading and the concept of "not your keys, not your coins," and the show revisits a recent interview with Jeffrey Cleveland, chief economist at Payden & Rygel.

Jeff Spiegel, U.S. head of iShares megatrend and international ETFs at BlackRock, says that high inflation is not a megatrend that will last decades, but it has created an environment in which investors will want to be more selective, looking for compelling reasons for long-0term growth. Specifically, he identified infrastructure and clean energy plays, health-care innovation and cybersecurity and robotics as industries with the juice to grow now but the potential to keep growing for decades. Also on the show, Rachna Ramachandran, an analyst on the high-yield strategies team at GMO, says that junk bonds yielding 9 percent today are priced as if default rates could reach 14 percent, dramatically higher than even the most bearish observers expect, which ultimately is making it worthwhile for investors to take on more high-yield risk. And Chuck goes Off the News with veteran financial columnist Allan Sloan of The Washington Post, who notes that the storied stock winners of just a year ago -- the FAANG stocks most notably among them -- have turned into today's biggest losers.

Victoria Fernandez, chief market strategist at Crossmark Global Investments, says that while there are real positives to take away from recent market activity, the lag effect from Federal Reserve actions will slow growth, earnings and profit margins sufficiently to create a small recession in the spring or summer of 2023. She recommends selectively managing portfolios to add balance, but warns against "taking wild swings at this market because things can change too quickly and you'll get caught on the wrong side of that." Veteran technical analyst Martin Pring of Pring Turner Research says that most of the indications he is seeing on the secular trend are negative right now, which is why he is keeping powder dry waiting for signs that there is more potential for real upturns rather than short bear-market rallies. Plus, Vern Sumnicht, chief executive officer at iSectors.com, makes his debut in the Market Call talking exchange-traded funds.

Amber Fairbanks, portfolio manager at Mirova on the firm's global sustainable equity strategy, says that she thinks a recession is coming, likely early next year and while she expects it to be mild, investors and experts are mostly guessing at that because there is no real precedent for the kind of high inflation, rising rate environment we are seeing today. Fairbanks, speaking in the Market Call segment, also talked about sustainable equities, which is a good comparison for the Big Interview segment featuring Venk Reddy, chief investment officer for sustainable credit strategies at Osterweis Capital Management, who also noted that market conditions are going to favor active managers who can separate the worthy credit investments from the ones that will get caught up in negative market conditions. Plus, David Trainer of New Constructs revisits a recent Danger Zone pick that he says has joined the walking dead of zombie stocks, and Christian Mitchell discusses a recent Northwestern Mutual survey showing that investors now believe they will need $1.25 million -- more than ever -- to retire comfortably in the face of current inflationary pressures.

Bill Stone, chief investment officer at Glenview Trust, says that buying smart in the stock market requires making investments when they feel bad, which despite this week's rally is still the case today. He foresees some recessionary troubles for 2023, but thinks the recovery from a bear market will be "normal" and likely accomplished within two years. Thus, even while he warns that earnings and conditions will look worse in the short run, the long run will benefit people who keep investing now. Likewise, Buck Klintworth, senior vice president at Chase Investment Counsel, thinks that the overwhelming evidence in the market is that this week's rally is not the start of a new bull market, but rather is a reprieve in a downturn that has longer to run. He too believes that there are good opportunities among some sectors that don't look great in current conditions, but which might lead the way next year. Also on the show, Mitchel Penn of Oppenheimer & Co. discusses the ups and downs of business development companies in the rising-rate, high inflation market, and David Miller of the Catalyst Mutual Funds talks about insider buying and selling and its influence on certain stocks in the Market Call.

Thomas Winmill, manager of the Midas Fund and the Dividend and Income Fund, says that investors have to adjust their psychology to recognize that it is a preserve of value, and while it has struggled this year in its traditional role as a hedge against inflation, it will hold up well against bonds, where investors have been lured by higher yields that look good but can't keep pace with inflation. Winmill says central bankers around the world have been buying it and that they have a good track record for timing a recovery, which he thinks will happen gradually ove the next three to six months as the dollar weakens. Winmill notes that investors who have tried to use cryptocurrency instead of gold as an inflation hedge have suffered much larger losses than gold investors this year. Also on the show, Tom Lydon of VettaFi.com takes an unusual step -- pegged to this week's election -- as his pick for ETF of the Week is influenced by politics, and Mike Bailey, director of research at FBB Capital Partners, talks about "beat and raise" stock investing in the Market Call.

Joe Kalish, chief macro strategist at Ned Davis Research, says that the Federal Reserve will begin scaling back its rate hikes by March, creating a good environment for bonds and cash to generate a real return with minimal risk. But first, he says the stock market will likely rally down the final stretch of 2022, but that because the stock market has never bottomed ahead of the start of a recession he expects a reversal that takes out the lows before the Fed pivots and the market can start a slow recovery during or after a mild recession in mid- to late 2023. Also on the show, Ed Carson, news editor at Investor's Business Daily discusses the latest IBD/TIPP Economic Optimism Index and how the crush of rising prices at the gas pump outshined the euphoria from dramatically rising stock prices in October, leaving investors feeling more down in the dumps than ever, plus, in the Market Call, Tom Plumb, chief executive officer at The Plumb Funds, talks stocks and valuation and market changes in the current high-inflation, rising rate environment.

Jeffrey Cleveland, chief economist at Payden & Rygel, says that inflation could begin dropping next year while unemployment remains low, conditions which run counter to the traditional recessionary playbook. He says that the reasons for inflation over the last few years could be unique to the Covid era -- fiscal stimulus, unusual supply chains, a shift in how people spend money moving from services to goods, war in Ukraine and more -- which could set up "a great scenario" and a potential soft landing. He sees the economy side-stepping recession until late next year or 2024, and sees strong potential investment opportunities in the interim. Also on the show, David Ellison, portfolio manager covering the financial services sector for the Hennessy Funds, says that Wall Street is in recession but the rest of the economy isn't, and while Wall Street wants that kind of pain -- because a recession is good for Wall Street -- he doesn't see that kind of downturn materializing right now, agreeing with Cleveland that low unemployment and other conditions make the current downturn very different than the great financial crisis of 2008. Plus, Ted Rossman of CreditCards.com returns with the site's look at retail store charge cards, which now have an average interest rate nearing 30 percent, a new record.

Adam Ballantyne, senior analyst at Cambiar Investors, says the Federal Reserve needs to keep talking as if inflation is far from over because their job is to dare us into a recession or near recession to cure the economy's problems, but he notes that "The reality is we might be peaking right here." Half of the inInflation is driven by housing, energy and medicare costs, and Ballantyne says those items do appear to have topped or are near to it, meaning "It could very well be the case that the next Fed rate increase is the last one." Ballantyne believes that the economy can also post a reasonable recovery from the current troubles, because consumers are not overextended, so they will be ready to participate once they are certain that prices are again under control. Also on the show, Ted Rossman from CreditCards.com discusses the pitfalls that consumers have experienced and worry about when lending money to friends and family, David Trainer, of New Constructs revisits his troubling take on Shopify, which he puts squarely in "The Danger Zone," and Herb Greenberg, senior editor at Empire Financial Research, discusses his annual takedown of Medicare drug pricing and how consumers can fight a system that works against them every year to the tune of hundreds or thousands of dollars.

Shep Perkins, chief investment officer for equities at Putnam Investments, says that once the Federal Reserve sees an uptick in unemployment and the economy slowing and cuts back on rate increases, the stock market will find a bottom and begin a sharp recovery once the all-clear is sounded. While investors will need to be patient waiting for that rebound to start, Perkins says there are plenty of compelling values for patient investors who are willing to wait for investments made into today's bad news to pay off in tomorrow's profits. Also talking about compelling values on today's show is John Cole Scott, chief investment officer at Closed-End Fund Advisors, who says that today's rate uncertainty has created attractive entry points for some municipal-bond funds because they are trading at big discounts and, in many cases, have gone through a dividend cut, which reduces the potential for another cut moving forward. Plus, Jeffrey Hirsch, editor of the Stock Trader's Almanac, says the market has reached a sweet spot just as investors are feeling most crunched. Between the historic effects of the calendar -- when November starts the market's best six-month period historically -- and the impact of mid-term elections and more, Hirsch sees the market rebounding from its current recession/bear market posture, with strong potential for 2023 to be a good year for investors.

George Bory, chief investment strategist for fixed income at Allspring Global Investments, says that the Federal Reserve's forth jumbo rate hike of the year -- announced yesterday -- is not likely to trigger a deep inflation, but the central bank did leave consumers wondering just how effective the rate hikes will be at slowing and ending inflation. - hiking activity will end or, at least slow, the rise in consumer prices. Bory adds that while higher yields are not great for all financial assets, they do help fixed-income investors to generate a reasonable real return now. Tom Lydon, vice chairman at VettaFi also delves into interest rates by making a short-duration bond fund his pick for ETF of the Week honors, andi n the Market Call, Simon Lack of SL Advisors returns to the show to discuss energy infrastructure and pipeline companies.

Scott Wren, senior global market strategist for the Wells Fargo Investment Institute, says the stock market is in for some dicey moments heading into 2023 and through the first few months of the year, but he is calling for the Standard & Poor's 500 to hit 4,400 -- roughly 15 percent higher than it is today -- by the end of next year, a recovery that is set up by solid economic underpinnings that he says will come to the fore once inflation is under better control. Also on the show, Anu Ganti of S&P Global discusses how the Dow Jones Industrial Average during October posted its best month in nearly 47 years, Jerome Clark of T. Rowe Price -- a pioneer of target-date investing -- discusses how and why target-date investors have performed by staying the course in market times tempting them into making portfolio changes, and Lin Ho of Zelros covers the site's recent survey on how consumers feel they are being gouged for insurance coverage and how to make sure you're getting the most for your insurance dolar.

Greg Valliere, chief U.S. policy strategist for AGF Investments, says that while there is no sugar-coating the problems of the economy -- inflation, rising interest rates, a rough housing market and more -- the likely recession that lies ahead will be shallow, and will have a reasonable recovery once the Federal Reserve proves that the bitter medicine it is providing to quash inflation won't go overboard and kill the patient. Also on the show, Mark Hulbert discusses his recent column on MarketWatch where he added his own flair to some new academic research showing that the classic "4 percent rule" on retirement withdrawals is leading savers astray and that the proper spending amount to ensure that someone not outlive their money may be less than half of what most people are planning for. Plus Chuck talks about his annual cash-or-candy, trade-or-treat Halloween event and the choices his neighborhood kids went for when they came to his home Tuesday night.

Quincy Krosby, chief global strategist at LPL Financial, says that the stock market has been signaling a coming recession -- albeit not likely to be "a deep scary one" -- but the key will be the speed of recovery, and that may hinge on how and when the Federal Reserve eases up on or reverses interest-rate hikes. Crosby notes that one thing that will help the recovery is that the dollar should weaken once the Fed makes it clear that the cycle of rate hikes is ending; she pointed to multi-national companies like Apple and Microsoft as examples of firms who saw global revenue growth hindered by the strength of the dollar. Also on the show: Kyle Guske of New Constructs puts a four-star mutual fund into "The Danger Zone," noting that it's filled with dangerous stocks and that past performance isn't likely to dictate future success; Greg Jenkins, head of institutional defined contribution for Invesco, examines the firm's recent survey showing that employees feel alone -- and unsupported by their employers -- in trying to determine the best investment strategy for retirement, and author and investment adviser Kristen Ragusin discusses her new book, "The End of Scarcity: The Dawn of the New Abundant World."

Karl Mills, president of Jurika Mills & Kiefer, says that negative investor sentiment is a precondition of a rebound, but he's looking for more signals that the economy and stock market is bottoming out. For example, Mills says that earnings haven't declined much yet, but he expects them to because of the squeeze that current conditions are putting on profits. The result is that Mills is taking a cautious, "shelter from the storm" approach, noting that there is still a lot of downside risk even though the market can see and already price in the coming recession he sees as arriving as the calendar turns. In The NAVigator segment, Mark Milner of Parametric Portfolio Associates, says that a lot of closed-end fund asset classes have now reached double-digit discount territory, "which historically has been a good opportunity to buy closed-end funds," although he worries about a coming boom in year-end tax-loss selling -- larger than in years past as a result of the market's 2023 downturn -- could impact closed-end assets as the New Year approaches. Plus, in the Market Call, Eric Marshall, president and portfolio manager at Hodges Capital Management, discusses bottoms-up investing in blue-chip stocks.

Matt Freund, co-chief investment officer at Calamos Investments, says that the market has taken the pain of higher rates but is watching that work its way through the economy and corporate earnings while facing wildcards like Covid-19, war in Ukraine and more that could extend current troubles. Still, despite an "epically bad" start to the year for the bond market -- coupled with hard times in equities -- Freund says that it is "not a foregone conclusion" that what lies ahead is a crash, and he expects the downturn to pass from here with a more limited amount of financial pain. Also on the show, Tom Lydon, vice-chairman at VettaFi, focuses on free cash-flow and quality domestic companies with his pick for "ETF of the Week," and Michael Campagna, senior investment analyst at Moerus Capital Management returns to the Market Call to discuss deep-value investing and just how messy he is willing to get in a market where the global valuation picture has been changing rapidly.

Christopher Davis, chairman and portfolio manager at Davis Advisors and the Davis Funds, says that "the bubble has been pricked" on the "crazy, hyper-speculative" growth companies, but that has put some names into the stock market's sweet spot, especially for investors with long time horizons and a value-investing bent. A year ago on the show , Davis said that a hybrid value style that encompassed "undervalued growth companies and value stocks that can grow" would be well positioned for whatever the market could dish out, and he now says the strategy has proven its worth; while the markets have bloodied all investors, Davis believes it has positioned investors to be long-term winners by staying the course. Also on the show, Greg McBride, chief financial analyst at BankRate.com discusses the site's latest survey showing that inflation concerns are making investors even more nervous that their retirement savings are falling behind, and Chuck talks about his annual Halloween "cash or candy" giveaway and how he will be working it on the trick-or-treaters this year, expecting the kids to be feeling the pinch of inflation this year too.

Tom Siomades, chief investment officer at AE Wealth Management and Advisors Excel, says that he believes the economy has been in recession for much of this year, and that he sees that ending as soon as the Federal Reserve gets inflation under control, which he expects to happen by early next year. He notes that the pundits calling for recession next year are late to the game; meanwhile, that time frame makes it easier for investors to stay the course with the investment portfolios built during the bull market. Also on the show, Matt Brannon of Clever Real Estate discusses the site's new survey showing that inflation is forcing roughly 40 percent of Americans to change buying habits on everyday goods, but which also highlights ways in which consumers misunderstand how inflation works and how bad the current situation is relative to the past. And in the Market Call, portfolio manager Adam Coons of Winthrop Capital Management discusses exchange-traded funds and the difficulty of finding issues that can be productive "satellites" to a core portfolio now.

Scott Knapp, chief market strategist at CUNA Mutual Group, says that central bankers are engineering a recession in order to kill inflation, and that investors are asking the wrong questions when they wonder how deep and how long a recession will be instead of wondering whether the mild recession most people expect will be enough to get the job done and fix the problem. Knapp believes that inflation is stubborn enough -- and that core inflation is accelerating -- to force a "more meaningful recession" that creates a longer downturn. Despite that forecast, Knapp says he is sticking with current asset allocations to ride things out, noting that a lot of the recession is already priced into the market. Also on the show, Kyle Guske of New Constructs revisits Tesla in "The Danegr Zone," discussing whether Elon Musk's distractions are adding pressure to a tenuous market position, Jenn Tracy discusses an IPX1031 survey in which half of Americans say that their dream home is "unattainable" in today's rising-rate, high-cost real estate market and, in the Market Call, David Barse, chief executive officer at XOUT Capital discusses the importance of eliminating worrisome stocks from a portfolio.

Robert Frick, corporate economist at Navy Federal Credit Union, says he thinks there is at least a 50 percent chance of a recession, but says that the whole idea that the Federal Reserve can "engineer a soft landing is a fairy tale," noting that a perfect ending to today's economic troubles isn't impossible, but "if it happens, it's just going to happen because it happened," not because the Fed actions caused it. Frick notes "a mild recession could be a tonic to a lot of what ails the economy right now." Also on the show, Gretchen Lam, senior portfolio manager at Octagon Credit Investors talks about how rising interest rates are helping the credit market now -- minimizing losses compared to most fixed-income investments -- and how loans have performed during periods of rate hikes in the past; Anna Mabry of Calvert Impact Capital discusses "community investment notes," direct investments that individuals can buy for as little as $50 that function as a fixed-income alternative while also trying to make a positive impact on communities, and Chuck answer's a listener's question about allowances, when to start them and how to structure them.

Michael Sincere, author of the Michael Sincere's Long-Term Trader column on MarketWatch.com, says that there are nine stages to a bear market and that the recent rallies are proving that this downturn isn't quite halfway through those steps, making the road to recovery long. He expects the bear market to last for at least another 12 months, and while he sees some potential rallies in there -- and even sees potential for a significant spike higher -- he suggests investors should be wary about taking the bait and should maintain a slug of cash (money market funds and short-duration Treasury funds) in their asset allocation until the technicals support that the recovery is on. Also on the show, Tom Lydon of Vetta Fi puts a happy face on a brand new fund in the "ETF of the Week," Jaime Dunaway-Seale of Clever Real Estate discusses a recent survey showing that a surprising number of Americans would be willing to buy a haunted house in order to get a home in these competitive, higher-cost times for the real estate market, and Dan Keady -- the chief financial planning strategist at TIAA -- discusses the impact of the recent, large cost-of-living adjustment for Social Security and how that extra income will help seniors and soon-to-be retirees fend off the sequence-of-return risk that is the big concern for seniors right now.

Craig Callahan, founder and chief executive officer at the ICON Funds -- who correctly called the bottom of the pandemic-driven bear market in March 2020 -- says that there are signs that the stock market has been through the ringer, but it's not yet showing enough signs that it has reached a bottom. Callahan says the market is roughly at fair value, not nearly beaten up enough to create the kind of widespread bargains normally found at a market bottom. the way it typically would be in As a result, he is holding maximum cash, waiting for inflation to start to ease, which should key the market reaction that puts him back in a buying mood. Also on the show, Rich Compson, head of managed accounts at Fidelity Investments talks about "direct indexing" or personalized indexing, and how it is now available to average investors with much smaller account balances; and in the Market Call, Scott Davies, founder and chief investment officer at CDAM, talks about international value investing now.

Ryan Detrick, chief market strategist for the Carson Group, says that while investors are suffering with the struggling market, he does not see a deep, protracted recession, and he says that investors who have priced in a much bigger downturn have created a buying opportunity that people may struggle to take advantage of because of the emotions of the downturn; he cites a number of data points that have him overweight to equities relative to fixed income now, which is a contrary position to many money managers now. Also on the show, Bob Pisani, senior markets correspondent for CNBC discusses his new book out today, "Shut Up and Keep Talking: Lessons on Life and Investing from the Floor of the New York Stock Exchange," and Nicholas Bohnsack, chief executive officer at Strategas Asset Management discusses "macro thematic opportunities" and the stocks that represent those opportunities now.

David Goerz, chief executive officer at Strategic Frontier Management, says that some well-known blue-chip companies are trading at single-digit price-earnings ratios lower than in the last two decades, creating opportunities for investors, but we are in an environment where investors could sell stocks and buy bonds expecting a better return, and the only asset class that he thinks can generate a positive return is cash. Goerz defends holding more cash right now despite an inflation rate that ultimately gives cash investments a negative real return, noting that losing a little ground to inflation is still a better outcome than losing a lot of ground in stocks and bonds. Also on the show, Matt Schulz, chief credit analyst at LendingTree, discusses a survey showing that nearly everyone across the country is planning to celebrate Halloween and plans to spend more money doing it, Kyle Guske of New Constructs puts a stock in The Danger Zone that he says was not rescued by a white knight recently but was instead pushed to the brink, and Manny Weintraub of Spears Abacus talks about finding compounders and other "super great stocks that are not going to kill you."

Warren Pierson, co-chief investment officer at the Baird Funds, says that after a long period where bond payouts were so low that investors had no choice and no alternative but to invest in stocks, things have now moved to where investors should be looking at bond yields because that's where they can find good values now. Pierson says that odds of a recession have risen, and while he does not expect a particularly long or difficult economic downturn, he believes investors should focus on investment-grade, quality bonds to ride it out. Also on the show, Duncan Farley, portfolio manager for the BlueBay Destra International Event-Driven Credit Fund, talks about alternative fixed-income opportunities, Zach Gildehaus of Edward Jones discusses charitable giving and making donations go farther and do more, and Nancy Prial, co-chief executive officer at Essex Investment Management, makes her debut in the Market Call talking about small-cap stocks.

Nick Sargen, senior economic advisor at Fort Washington Investment Advisors, says that investors didn't expect the Federal Reserve to let troubling times linger, but now the central bank can't make a change on a dime, so investors should now be waiting for the Fed to pivot on its strategy, a change he does not think will happen soon. Sargen expects a recession that is "not that long and not that deep," though he acknowledges there is enough uncertainty to make it last longer before those weak spots can be shored up. Also on the show, Tom Lydon of VettaFi looks to an international fund that hedges currency risk -- a hot topic in today's markets -- for his ETF of the Week, Maria Feller of SurePayroll talks about a survey showing that nearly 40 percent of Americans find that subscription services -- managing them and getting the most out of their money -- is adding to their financial stress, and in the Market Call, Justin Carbonneau, vice president at Validea.com discusses the ways in which legendary investors are or would be picking stocks in today's downbeat market.