Longform

Stephanie Clifford is an investigative journalist and novelist who has written for The New York Times, The New Yorker, The Atlantic, and many other publications. Her most recent article is "The Journalist and the Pharma Bro."“I think your job as a journalist—particularly with people who are in vulnerable situations or people who are not used to press—is to explain what the fallout might be." Thanks to Mailchimp for sponsoring this week's episode. Show notes: @stephcliff stephanieclifford.net Clifford on Longform Clifford's New York Times archive 02:00 "The Journalist and the Pharma Bro" (Elle • Dec 2020) 05:00 Everybody Rise (St. Martin’s Press • 2015) 15:00 "The Inside Story of MacKenzie Scott, the Mysterious 60-Billion-Dollar Woman" (Marker • Oct 2020) 26:00 "When the Misdiagnosis Is Child Abuse" (Atlantic • Aug 2020) 27:00 "He Cyberstalked Teen Girls for Years—Then They Fought Back" (Wired • Oct 2019) 33:00 "The First Year Out" (Marie Claire • Jun 2020) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Kenneth R. Rosen has written for The New York Times, Wired, The New Yorker, and many other publications. His new book is Troubled: The Failed Promise of America's Behavioral Treatment Programs. “When I report, I keep two journals. … I keep my reporting notebook, which is sort of an almanac of dates, times, names, quotes, phone numbers. And then I have my personal notebook, which has all my fears and anxieties. And it invariably makes its way into the reporting … which is sort of an amalgamation of those two journals, of those two experiences, the internal and the external.” Thanks to Mailchimp for sponsoring this week's episode. Show notes: @kenneth_rosen kennethrrosen.com Rosen on Longform 03:00 "The Devil’s Henchmen" (The Atavist • Jun 2017) 04:00 Troubled: The Failed Promise of America's Behavioral Treatment Programs (Little a • 2021) 13:00 "At a Therapeutic Ranch, No Payday Until Later" (New York Times • Mar 2017) 31:00 Rosen's New York Times archive 32:00 Longform Podcast #403: Seyward Darby 35:00 Luke Mogelson on Longform 35:00 Ben Taub on Longform 35:00 May Jeong on Longform 35:00 Longform Podcast #300: May Jeong 39:00 Alicia Patterson Fellowship 41:00 Longform Podcast #135: Scott Anderson Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Carvell Wallace is a podcast host and has written for The New Yorker and The New York Times Magazine. He is the co-author, with Andre Iguodala, of The Sixth Man.“So much of my life experience coalesces into things that are useful… All those years that I was obsessing over this that or the other thing, all the weird stuff that I would do, all the weird things that happened to me, all the places I found myself in that I didn’t want to be in but were interesting - this is all part of what makes me the writer that I am today.” Thanks to Mailchimp for sponsoring this week's episode. @carvellwallace carvellwallace.com The Sixth Man: A Memoir (Blue Rider Press • 2019) Episode One of Finding Fred Are You There, God? It's Me, Margaret (Bradbury Press • 1970) Purple Rain (1984) The Karate Kid (Scholastic • 1984) “The Two Lives of Michael Jackson” (New Yorker • 2015) “How to Parent on a Night Like This” (Huffington Post • 2014) Wallace's Pitchfork archive Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ashley C. Ford is a writer and podcast host. Her memoir, Somebody's Daughter, is forthcoming from Flatiron Books.“For the first time I felt like I had so many more choices in my life than I originally thought I had. That was my first realization that I did not just have to react to the world, that I could be intentional in the world, and just curious about what came back to me.” Thanks to Mailchimp for sponsoring this week's episode. @iSmashFizzle ashleycford.net Fortune Favors the Bold podcast 4:30 "Roger Loves Chaz" (Roger Ebert • Sep 2012) 11:00 The Giver (Lois Lowry • Houghton Mifflin • 1993) 17:15 Ford's commencement speech at Ball State 25:30 Ford's archive at Buzzfeed 40:30 "Ashley C. Ford’s Debut Memoir ‘Somebody’s Daughter’ Finds Home at Flatiron" (Paperback Paris • 2018) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ed Yong spent 2020 covering the pandemic for The Atlantic. His latest feature is "How Science Beat the Virus." “I am trying to give readers a platform that they can stand on to observe this raging torrent that is the pandemic, this cascade of information that is threatening to sweep us all away. I’m trying to give people a rock on which they can stand so that they can observe what is happening without themselves being submerged by it. But I am trying to construct that platform while also being submerged in it.” Thanks to Mailchimp for sponsoring this week's episode. Show notes: @edyong209 edyong.me Yong on Longform Longform Podcast #386: Ed Yong Yong's archive at The Atlantic 08:00 "How the Pandemic Will End" (The Atlantic • Mar 2020) 08:00 "The Giant Pool of Money" (Alex Blumberg, Adam Davidson, and Planet Money • This American Life • May 2008) 16:00 "Our Pandemic Summer" (The Atlantic • Apr 2015) 16:00 "What the Racial Data Show" (Ibram X. Kendi • The Atlantic • Apr 2020) 18:00 "How the Pandemic Defeated America" (The Atlantic • Sep 2020) 19:00 "How Science Beat the Virus" (The Atlantic • Jan 2021) 34:00 "Q&A with Ed Yong" (Delia Cai • Deez Links • Nov 2020) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nilay Patel is editor-in-chief of The Verge and hosts the podcast Decoder. “The instant ability—unmanaged ability—for people to say horrible things to each other because of phones is tearing our culture apart. It just is. And so sometimes, I’m like, Man, I wish our headline had been: ‘iPhone Released. It’s A Mistake.’ … But I think there’s a really important flipside to that … a bunch of teenagers are able to create culture at a scale that has never been possible before. Also, a bunch of marginalized communities are able to speak with coordinated voices and make change very rapidly. And that balance—I don’t think we’ve quite understood.” Thanks to Mailchimp for sponsoring this week's episode. Show Notes: @reckless Patel's archive at The Verge 02:00 Decoder 02:00 The Vergecast 03:00 Recode Decode 08:00 Platformer (Casey Newton) 12:00 "Mark in the Middle" (Casey Newton • Verge • Sept 2020) 22:00 Patel's archive at Engadget 26:00 Processor (Dieter Bohn • Verge) 28:00 "Foxconn Is Confusing the Hell Out of Wisconsin" (Josh Dzieza • Verge • Apr 2019) 28:00 "Foxconn Says Empty Buildings in Wisconsin Are Not Empty" (Josh Dzieza • Verge • Apr 2019) 29:00 "Condo at the End of the World" (Joseph L. Flatley • Verge • Nov 2011) 45:00 Stratechery (Ben Thompson) 45:00 Kevin Roose on Longform 45:00 Charlie Warzel on Longform Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Wright Thompson is a senior writer for ESPN. His new book is Pappyland: A Story of Family, Fine Bourbon, and the Things That Last. “If you’re going to write a profile of someone … you have to find some piece of common ground with them so that no matter how famous or good or noble or bad—or no matter how cartoonish their most well-known attributes are—it shrinks them. And once they’re small enough to fit in your hand, I think it changes the entire experience of asking questions about their lives.” Thanks to Mailchimp for sponsoring the show. Show notes: wrightthompson.com Thompson on Longform 01:00 Pappyland (Penguin Random House • 2020) 02:00 Bloodlines (ESPN Investigates • 2020) 18:00 "The Secret History of Tiger Woods" (ESPN • Apr 2016) 18:00 "Michael Jordan Has Not Left The Building" (ESPN • Feb 2013) 18:00 "Holy Ground" (ESPN • Jun 2007) 31:00 ”Michael Jordan: A History of Flight" (ESPN • May 2020) 47:00 "As Clayton Kershaw Waits for Baseball to Return, a Look at His Family, Legacy and Future" (ESPN • Apr 2020) 49:00 The Big Fella (Jane Leavy • Harper • 2018) 52:00 "Pat Riley's Final Test" (ESPN • Apr 2017) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Melissa del Bosque is an investigative journalist covering the U.S.-Mexico border.“What I really want people to know is the context within which this traumatic event is happening. It doesn’t have to happen. It’s happening because certain people made certain decisions. Or they made a decision to do nothing. … There are laws, there are policies on the books that are either being ignored or could be changed.” Thanks to Mailchimp for sponsoring this week's episode. Show notes: 8:00 The Western Edition 12:00 "Editorial: A Brief Look Back, Then Forward" (Staff • Texas Observer • Dec 2007) 14:00 The Monitor 18:00 Texas Observer 20:00 "Holes in the Wall" (Texas Observer • Feb 2008) 24:00 "Children of the Exodus" (Texas Observer • Nov 2010) 30:00 "Beyond the Border" (Texas Observer, Guardian • Aug 2014) 32:00 "They Die in Brooks County" (Mary Jo McConahay • Texas Observer • Jun 2007) 33:00 Type Investigations 34:00 "Death on Sevenmile Road" (Texas Observer • May 2015) 42:00 Bloodlines (Ecco • 2017) 50:00 Dart Center for Journalism and Trauma 50:00 "The Deadliest Place In Mexico" (Texas Observer • Feb 2012) 58:00 "The El Paso Experiment" (Intercept • Nov 2020) 1:03:00 "Army Sergeants at Fort Hood Fear for the Safety of Their Soldiers" (Intercept • Oct 2020) 1:04:00 "A Group of Agents Rose Through the Ranks to Lead the Border Patrol. They’re Leaving It in Crisis." (ProPublica • Feb 2020) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Reggie Ugwu is an arts reporter for The New York Times. “I find that even though I talk to celebrities or popular artists, I’m not all that interested in celebrity. I’m pretty uninterested in celebrity. But I’m really interested in creativity.” Thanks to Mailchimp for sponsoring this week's episode. Show notes: @uugwuu Ugwu on Longform Ugwu's New York Times archive 10:00 The Quake (Martin Smith and Marcela Gaviria • Frontline • Mar 2010) 12:00 "Inside The Playlist Factory" (Buzzfeed • Jul 2016) 12:00 stereogum.com 17:00 "A Song No One Remembered. A Podcast That’s Hard to Forget." (New York Times • Mar 2020) 18:00 "'Song Exploder' and the Inexhaustible Hustle of Hrishikesh Hirway" (New York Times • Nov 2020) 22:00 "Francis and the Lights, Pop Star Interrupted" (New York Times • Mar 2020) 27:00 "'Black Panther' Star Chadwick Boseman Dies of Cancer at 43" (New York Times • Aug 2020) 27:00 "Overlooked No More: Robert Johnson, Bluesman Whose Life Was a Riddle" (New York Times • Sept 2019) 28:00 "How Chadwick Boseman Embodies Black Male Dignity" (New York Times • Jan 2019) 30:00 "Why Are There So Few Black Directors in the Criterion Collection?" (Kyle Buchanan and Reggie Ugwu • New York Times • Aug 2020) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Stephanie McCrummen is a national enterprise reporter at The Washington Post. “I do have to psych myself up. There’s always something awkward about it and that never goes away. … No matter how long I do this job, that part of it doesn’t get any easier. It’s always a bit awkward and you’re always sort of humbled when someone actually is willing to talk to you. Then it can be kind of thrilling, once you’re in it, once you’re actually in the conversation. ... But the moment a few seconds before that is still—to this day, it’s sort of an act of will.” Thanks to Mailchimp and Squarespace for sponsoring this week's episode. Show notes: @mccrummenWaPo McCrummen on Longform McCrummen's Washington Post archive 08:00 "In Georgia, a Biden supporter realizes the power of her ballot" (Washington Post • Nov 2020) 12:00 "Miranda’s Rebellion" (Washington Post • Feb 2020) 28:00 "Judgment Days" (Washington Post • Jul 2018) 37:00 "Woman says Roy Moore initiated sexual encounter when she was 14, he was 32" (Washington Post • Nov 2017) 43:00 "A woman approached The Post with dramatic — and false — tale about Roy Moore. She appears to be part of undercover sting operation." (Shawn Boburg, Aaron C. Davis and Alice Crites • Washington Post • Nov 2017) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Olivia Nuzzi is the White House correspondent for New York.“I don’t think that, broadly speaking, this a group of redeemable people. … But I do think there is tremendous value, in this first draft of history, trying to understand why the fuck they are like this. … There is value in understanding why these people are like this because they are the reason why we are here in this situation. And I think it’s a [question] that historians will try to answer years from now. … I view my job as providing fodder for that.” Thanks to Mailchimp and SAIC for sponsoring this week's episode. Show notes: @Olivianuzzi Nuzzi on Longform Nuzzi's archive at New York 13:00 "The Final Gasp of Donald Trump’s Presidency" (New York • Nov 2020) 24:00 "Steve Bannon and Reince Priebus Want You to Know They’re Actually Friends" (New York • Feb 2017) 25:00 "My Private Oval Office Press Conference With Trump, Pence, Pompeo, and Kelly" (New York • Oct 2018) 25:00 "How John Kelly Failed to Tame the West Wing" (New York • Dec 2018) 25:00 "The Chaotic, Desperate, Last-Minute Trump 2020 Reboot" (New York • Aug 2020) 36:00 "The Mystifying Triumph of Hope Hicks, Donald Trump’s Right-Hand Woman" (GQ • Jun 2016) 39:00 "An Anonymous Republican on Power vs. Contempt for Trump" (New York • Oct 2020) 56:00 "Listen to Children Who’ve Just Been Separated From Their Parents at the Border" (Ginger Thompson • ProPublica • Jun 2018) 1:06:00 "Does Governor Andrew Cuomo Have His Nipples Pierced?" (New York • Apr 2020) 1:08:00 Nuzzi's archive at The Daily Beast 1:08:00 "The Entire Presidency Is a Superspreading Event" (New York • Oct 2020) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Reeves Wiedeman is a reporter at New York and the author of the new book Billion Dollar Loser. “You get inside these companies and … you assume everything is running based on models and numbers and then you get inside and it’s just people. And sometimes they have MBAs and sometimes they don’t. … At the end of the day, whether you’re running a media company or an office space company, it’s all people making these decisions and they often do very strange, contradictory, and ultimately unsuccessful things.” Thanks to Mailchimp for sponsoring this week's episode. Show notes: @reeveswiedeman reeveswiedeman.net Wiedeman on Longform Wiedeman on Longform Podcast Wiedeman's archive at New York Magazine 01:00 "The Watcher" (New York • Nov 2018) 01:00 "What's Left of Condé Nast" (New York • Oct 2019) 01:00 "A Company Built on a Bluff" (New York • Jun 2018) 01:00 "The I in We" (New York • Jun 2019) 02:00 Billion Dollar Loser (Little Brown • 2020) 17:00 "Is Uber Evil, Or Just Doomed?" (New York • May 2017) 25:00 Cambridge Analytica coverage at The Guardian Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Latif Nasser co-hosts Radiolab. He also hosted The Other Latif and the Netflix documentary series Connected.“It’s so easy to hate everything and be cynical. There’s a kind of ease to that. It takes a lot more courage to go up in front of everybody and be like, This is awesome. I love this. That takes a lot of guts, I think.” Thanks to Mailchimp for sponsoring this week's episode. Show notes: @latifnasser 02:00 The Other Latif (WNYC Studios • 2020) 02:00 Connected (Netflix • 2020) 09:00 "Dust" from Connected (Netflix • 2020) 09:00 "Digits" from Connected (Netflix • 2020) 18:00 "A Clockwork Miracle" (Radiolab • 2012) 22:00 "Smile My Ass" (Radiolab • Oct 2015) 28:00 "The World’s Biggest Scavenger Hunt: A Guide To Finding Stories" (Transom • Nov 2018) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Barton Gellman is a staff writer for The Atlantic. and was previously a Pulitzer-winning reporter at The Washington Post. His latest book is Dark Mirror: Edward Snowden and the American Surveillance State and his latest essay is "The Election That Could Break America."“I have found that I have a talent for accidentally pissing people off. ... I’m interested most in accountability and the use and abuse of power. So naturally it’s going to annoy people sometimes. And sometimes they take it like grown-ups and sometimes less so.” Thanks to Mailchimp for sponsoring this week's episode. Show notes: @bartongellman bartongellman.com Gellman on Longform Dark Mirror (Penguin Press • 2020) 10:00 Gellman's early Washington Post archive 37:00 Gellman's Time archive 39:00 Gellman's NSA stories at The Washington Post 57:00 "The Election That Could Break America" (The Atlantic • Nov 2020) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Latria Graham is a writer living in South Carolina. Her work has appeared in Outside, Garden & Gun, The Guardian, and The New York Times. Her latest essay is "Out There, Nobody Can Hear You Scream." “My goal as a person—not just as a writer—is to be the adult that I needed when I was younger. That’s why I go and talk to college classes. That’s why I write some of these vulnerable things, to let people that are struggling know that they’re not on their own. … I have to be unmerciful to myself, I think, in order to do it. I really do try to dissect myself and my mistakes. And just kind of say, Here’s the full deck of my life. Take from it what you need. But I’m not holding out on you.” Thanks to Mailchimp for sponsoring this week's episode. Show Notes: @LatriaGraham latriagraham.com 10:00 Going Hungry (Kate M. Taylor • Anchor • 2008) 32:00 "The Dark Knight Unmasked" (SB Nation • Jan 2016) 37:00 "We're Here. You Just Don't See Us." (Outside • May 2018) 37:00 "Out There, Nobody Can Hear You Scream" (Outside • Sept 2020) 48:00 "How an E-Bike Got Me Riding Again After 20 Years" (Bicycling • Jul 2018) 1:03:00 "A Dream Uprooted" (Garden & Gun • Apr/May 2020) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nicholson Baker is the author of 18 books of fiction and nonfiction. He has written for The New Yorker, Harper’s, and many other publications. His latest book is Baseless: My Search for Secrets in the Ruins of the Freedom of Information Act. "In the end, I don’t care how famous you get, how widely read you are during your lifetime. You’re going to be forgotten. And you’re going to have five or six fans in the end. It’s going to be your grandchildren or your great-grandchildren are going to say, Oh, yeah, he was big. … So I think the key is, write what you actually care about. Because in the end, you’re only doing this for yourself. … So maybe do your best stuff for yourself and for the three, four, five people who know in the coming century that you ever existed. That’s all you need to do." Thanks to Mailchimp for sponsoring this week's episode. Show notes: @nicholsonbaker8 nicholsonbaker.com The Mezzanine (Grove Press • 1988) Baseless (Penguin Press • 2020) 10:00 Human Smoke (Simon & Schuster • 2009) 10:00 "Wrong Answer" (Harper's • Sept 2013) 11:00 Room Temperature (Grove Press • 2010) 11:00 U and I (Random House • 2000) 11:00 The Fermata(2000) 12:00 "The Projector" (New Yorker • Mar 1994) 12:00 The Size of Thoughts (Vintage Contemporaries • 1996) 13:00 "The Author vs. the Library" (New Yorker • Oct 1996) 19:00 Double Fold (Vintage • 2002) 30:00 Lab 257 (Michael Carroll • Willam Morrow Paperbacks • 2005) 33:00 Longform Podcast #192: Seymour Hersh 33:00 The Killing of Osama Bin Laden (Seymour Hersh • Verso • 2017) 33:00 Longform Podcast #321: Nicholas Schmidle 33:00 "Getting Bin Laden" (Nicholas Schmidle • New Yorker • Aug 2011) 46:00 Baker's New Yorker archive Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Elizabeth Weil covers California and the climate for ProPublica. She has written for The New York Times Magazine, California Sunday, and more.“As a journalist you’re endlessly asking people to tell you really personal, really vulnerable stuff about their lives. And I feel like you have to be willing to be in that conversation too—or really think about why you’re not willing.” Thanks to Mailchimp for sponsoring this week's episode. Show notes: @lizweil elizabethweil.net Weil on Longform 03:00 "Why He Kayaked Across the Atlantic at 70 (For the Third Time)" (New York Times Magazine • Mar 2018) 04:00 "What the Photos of Wildfires and Smoke Don’t Show You" (ProPublica • Sept 2020) 08:00 "The Climate Crisis Is Happening Right Now. Just Look at California’s Weekend." (ProPublica • Sept 2020) 13:00 "The Lost Boys of Sudan; The Long, Long, Long Road to Fargo" (Sara Corbett • New York Times Magazine • April 2001) 17:00 Off the Sidelines (Kirsten Gillibrand • Penguin Random House • 2015) 20:00 "In the Ashes of Ghost Ship" (New York Times Magazine • Dec 2018) 24:00 "Mary Cain Is Growing Up Fast" (New York Times Magazine • Mar 2015) 31:00 "Kamala Harris Takes Her Shot" (Atlantic • May 2019) 32:00 The Girl Who Smiled Beads (Clemantine Wamariya • Penguin Random House • 2019) 36:00 No Cheating, No Dying (Scribner • 2012) 36:00 They All Laughed at Christopher Columbus (Bantam • 2010) 39:00 "Married (Happily) With Issues" (New York Times Magazine • Dec 2009) 42:00 "Raising a Teenage Daughter" (California Sunday Magazine • Nov 2017) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jiayang Fan is a staff writer for The New Yorker. Her latest article is a "How My Mother and I Became Chinese Propaganda.""I think considering the unusual shape of our lives—the lives of my mother and I—from bare subsistence to one of the richest enclaves in America … it made me think about what the value of existence is. ... It made me wonder, What should a person be? And how should a person be? And being a writer has been a lifelong quest to answer those questions." Thanks to Mailchimp for sponsoring this week's episode. Show notes @JiayangFan Fan on Longform Fan at The New Yorker 02:00 "How My Mother and I Became Chinese Propaganda" (New Yorker • Sept 2020) 09:00 "Hong Kong's Protest Movement and the Fight for the City's Soul" (New Yorker • Dec 2019) 40:00 "China's Selfie Obsession" (New Yorker • Dec 2017) 41:00 "China's Mistress-Dispellers" (New Yorker • June 2017) 43:00 "How E-Commerce is Transforming Rural China" (New Yorker • July 2018) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Claudia Rankine is a poet, essayist, and playwright. She is the author of the new book, Just Us: An American Conversation.“I began to wonder, why am I maintaining civility around things that are actually very important to me? This might be the only chance I get to stand up for myself. As Claudia. As a Black person. As a Black woman. As an American citizen. So what am I waiting for? What am I preserving when the thing I am supposedly preserving is also the thing that is on some level killing me?” Thanks to Mailchimp for sponsoring this week's episode. Show notes: Rankine on Longform Just Us: An American Conversation (Graywolf Press • 2020) Citizen: An American Lyric (Graywolf Press • 2014) 4:00 "The Meaning of Serena Williams" (New York Times Magazine • Aug 2015) 4:00 "I Wanted to Know What White Men Thought About Their Privilege. So I Asked." (New York Times Magazine • July 2019) 4:00 On Being: Claudia Rankine 43:00 "Black Newborns More Likely to Die When Looked After By White Doctors" (Rob Picheta • CNN • Aug 2020) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ta-Nehisi Coates is an author and journalist. He served as guest editor for the September issue of Vanity Fair, titled "The Great Fire."“There’s this pressure to say something. Say something. The world’s burning, say something. But I try to stay where I’ve been or where I’ve tried to be in my career. ... Good things take time. You gotta let things cook. You can’t insta-bake something like this.” Thanks to Mailchimp for sponsoring this week's episode. Show notes: ta-nehisicoates.com Coates on Longform Longform Podcast #7: Ta-Nehisi Coates Longform Podcast #97: Ta-Nehisi Coates Longform Podcast #168: Ta-Nehisi Coates Longform Podcast #225: Ta-Nehisi Coates Longform Podcast #360: Ta-Nehisi Coates and Chris Jackson 1:00 "The Great Fire: A Special Issue, Edited by Ta-Nehisi Coates" (Vanity Fair • September 2020) 1:15 "On Witnessing and Respair: A Personal Tragedy Followed by Pandemic" (Jesmyn Ward • Vanity Fair • September 2020) 1:15 "Blue Bloods: America's Brotherhood of Police Officers" (Eve L. Ewing • Vanity Fair • September 2020) 1:30 "The Abolition Movement" (Josie Duffy Rice • Vanity Fair • September 2020) 1:30 "College Football Players are Unpaid Stars on the Field – And Have No Power Off It" (Bomani Jones • Vanity Fair • September 2020) 1:45 "Amy Sherald on Making Breonna Taylor's Portrait" (Miles Pope • Vanity Fair • September 2020) 7:00 The Apollo and The Atlantic Present Black Panther in Conversation: Featuring Chadwick Boseman and Ta-Nehisi Coates 9:30 “He Was An Epic Firework Display”: Ryan Coogler on Chadwick Boseman 15:00 Longform Podcast #363: Radhika Jones 15:45 "'I Am Still Called by the God I Serve to Walk This Out' A conversation with Lucia McBath, mother of Jordan Davis" (The Atlantic • February 2014) 20:30 "Mississippi: A Poem, In Days" (Kiese Makeba Lamon • Vanity Fair • September 2020) 23:15 "The Life of Breonna Taylor Lived, in the Words of Her Mother" (Ta-Nehisi Coates • Photography by Latoya Ruby Frazier • Vanity Fair • September 2020) 26:00 Between the World and Me 27:45 "Viola Davis: “My Entire Life Has Been a Protest" (Sonia Saraiya • Vanity Fair • July/August 2020) 27:45 "Janelle Monáe: Artist in Residence" (Yohana Desta • Vanity Fair • May 2020) 27:45 "For the Love of Lupita Nyong’o" (Kimberly Drew • Vanity Fair • September 2019) 44:00 "I’m Still Reading Andrew Sullivan. But I Can’t Defend Him." (Ben Smith • New York Times • Aug 2020) 46:15 "Myths About Physical Racial Differences Were Used to Justify Slavery — and are Still Believed by Doctors Today." (Linda Villarosa • New York Times Magazine • August 2019) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Baynard Woods and Brandon Soderberg are the co-authors of the new book I Got A Monster: The Rise and Fall of America's Most Corrupt Police Squad.“We really wanted to create some kind of leftist, anti-racist true crime story that we really haven’t seen. The conventions of the thriller often smuggle in all of this really right-wing, pro-police propaganda that all of our cops were raised on—the story of cops having to crash cars and break rules in order to get the bad guys. We wanted to take that and subvert it, using its methods to blow it up from the inside while also being rigorously reported.” Thanks to Mailchimp and The Jordan Harbinger Show for sponsoring this week's episode. Show notes: @baynardwoods @notrivia 5:30 "Even After the Remaining Charges Were Dropped in Freddie Gray's Death, Mosby Received a Hero's Welcome in Sandtown While the FOP Countered SAO's Arguments" (Baynard Woods • Baltimore City Paper • August 2016) 7:00 "Freddie Gray: Judge Declares Mistrial in Case Against Baltimore Police Officer" (Baynard Woods • The Guardian • December 2015) 8:00 "What Happened to Tyree Woodson?" (Baynard Woods • Baltimore City Paper • May 2017) 8:15 "The Detective and the Rapper" (Baynard Woods • Baltimore City Paper • October 2014) 8:15 Longform Podcast #395: Wesley Lowery 18:00 The Mastermind: Drugs. Empire. Murder. Betrayal. (Evan Ratliff • Random House • 2019) 28:30 "A Documentary About Baltimore's Notorious Urban Dirt Bike Riders" (Baynard Woods • Baltimore City Paper • March 2013) 28:30 Coffin Point: The Strange Cases Of Ed Mc Teer, Witch Doctor Sheriff (Baynard Woods • River City Publishing • 2010) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Andrea Valdez is the editor-in-chief of The 19th*.“You know how sometimes you hear a song and you think, Gosh, it feels like that song has always existed and an artist just plucked it out of the air and played it and now it’s a part of our musical canon? I really hope that The 19th* is a news organization where it feels like it has always been, should have always been, and will always be there.” Thanks to Mailchimp for sponsoring this week's episode. Show Notes @andreamvaldez 00:30 The 19th* 1:30 Valdez's archive at Texas Monthly 17:50 Valdez's archive at Wired 25:15 Valdez's archive at The Texas Observer 32:00 "America’s First Female Recession" (Chabeli Carrazana • The 19th* • July 2020) 32:00 "Black Female Voters Say They Want What They’re Owed: Power" (Errin Haines • The 19th* • July 2020) 33:00 "Kamala Harris Applauds Biden’s “Audacity to Choose a Black Woman to Be His Running Mate”" (Shefali Luthra • The 19th* • August 2020) 37:45 "Breonna Taylor’s Death Looms Over Kentucky’s Primary Election (Errin Haines • The 19th* • June 2020) 41:00 "The Newsroom Where Politics Is Not About Men" (Angelina Chapin • The Cut • Aug 2020) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jason Parham is a senior writer at Wired.“I think of myself some days as a critic. Some days I think of myself as a journalist. But I essentially mostly think of myself as an essayist, somebody who is trying to bridge those two traditions. My approach to writing now is kind of simple…I’m always writing about things I like and want to hear about.” Thanks to Mailchimp for sponsoring this week's episode. Show notes: @nonlinearnotes jasonparham.com 00:45 "TikTok and the Evolution of Digital Blackface" (Wired • Aug 2020) 1:00 Spook 1:45 Evan (@henrylittleboots) on TikTok 18:30 "The Reality of Dating White Women When You're Black" (Ernest Baker • Gawker • Jun 2014) 21:30 "Gawker Media's Responsibility to Diversity" (Jan 2015) 24:00 Gawker Cuts Seven Staffers as It Goes All Politics (Peter Sterne • Politico • Nov 2015) 29:15 Longform Podcast #335: Kiese Laymon (Peter Sterne • Politico • Nov 2015) 30:00 "And Lo, With Russell Westbrook, Humanity Outpaced Science" (Wired • June 2017) 30:00 "How Oprah’s Network Finally Found Its Voice" (Wired • June 2018) 39:15 Longform Podcast #157: Margo Jefferson 39:15 "Ripping Off Black Music" (Harper’s • January 1973) 43:00 "Why I (Still) Love Tech: In Defense of a Difficult Industry" (Wired • May 2019) 44:15 "When Influencers Switch Platforms—and Bare It All" (Wired • August 2019) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jenny Kleeman is a journalist, broadcaster and the author of the new book Sex Robots and Vegan Meat: Adventures at the Frontier of Birth, Food, Sex, and Death.“It’s better to cover one thing in a really illuminating way than to try and explore every single aspect of a topic in a really superficial way. So if there’s one thing that particularly interests you or fascinates you, if there’s just one question you want to ask, do as much research as you can on that one question and you’ll end up with a much more illuminating interview than something that is a precis of their entire field. Because anyone can do that.” Thanks to Mailchimp for sponsoring this week's episode. Show notes: Mailchimp's By the Books @jennykleeman jennykleeman.com 13:15 "The Race to Build the World's First Sex Robot" (The Guardian • April 2017) 15:00 "The Murderers Next Door" (The Guardian • October 2014) 21:00 "The YouTube Star Who Fought Back Against Revenge Porn—and Won" (The Guardian • January 2018) 32:15 The Immaculate Deception Podcast 34:00 BBC Hotspot 36:00 HBO: Vice News Tonight Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Seyward Darby is the editor-in-chief of The Atavist Magazine and the author of Sisters in Hate: American Women on the Front Lines of White Nationalism.“The most enlightening thing I learned in working on this book ultimately was that when we think of hate we think of animosity. Hate means I do not like someone or I do not like something. I deplore it. I despise it. But hate as a movement is actually a lot more like any social movement where it’s providing something to its supporters, members, acolytes that they were seeking but didn’t necessarily know where they were going to find it. So it could be camaraderie, it could be power, it could be purpose, in some cases it could be money. There’s something terrifyingly mundane about that.” Thanks to Mailchimp for sponsoring this week's episode. Show notes: The Mastermind Chronicles of Now @seywarddarby seywarddarby.com 3:15 "White Supremacy Was Her World. And Then She Left." (New York Times • 2020) 8:00 A Voice of Hate in America’s Heartland (New York Times • 2017) 8:45 The Rise of the Valkyries (Harpers • 2017) 20:00 Longform Podcast #362: Andrew Marantz 30:15 The History of White People (Nell Irvin Painter • W. W. Norton & Company • 2011) 32:45 Longform Podcast #395: Wesley Lowery 43:15 Duke Lacrosse Case 50:00 The Duke Lacrosse Scandal and the Birth of the Alt-Right (New York Magazine • 2017) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Raquel Willis, the former executive editor of Out, is an activist, journalist, and writer. Guest host Patrice Peck is a freelance journalist and writes the Coronavirus News for Black Folks newsletter.“To my peers, I would just say that we have to rethink our idea of leadership. Rethink our idea of storytelling. As the media, we shouldn’t be seeing ourselves as the owners and the gatekeepers of people’s stories. We actually need to be democratizing this experience—sharing the tools of storytelling with other folks. Folks are hungry to tell their own stories and may not always have the tools.” Thanks to Mailchimp for sponsoring this week's episode. Show notes: @RaquelWillis_ raquelwillis.com 00:30 "Self-Care for Black Journalists" (Patrice Peck • New York Times • Jul 2020) 00:45 Transgender Law Center 00:45 Out 01:00 Ms. Foundation for Women 13:00 National Association of Black Journalists 16:45 "Trans Women Are Women. This Isn’t a Debate." (The Root • Mar 2017) 19:00 "I Was Born a Boy" (Janet Mock • The Root • Mar 2017) 19:30 Orange is the New Black 26:30 HowStuffWorks 27:15 Transgender Teen's Death Sparks Outcry From Advocates (Eliana Dockterman • Time • Dec 2014) 28:00 I"Man Sentenced to 12 Years in Beating Death of Transgender Woman" (James C. McKinley Jr. • New York Times • Apr 2016) 38:15 Jack Jones Literary Arts 39:30 "Our March Cover Stars: The Mothers and Daughters of the Movement" (Out • February 2019) 40:30 BYP100 41:00 "Introducing the Out100 Trans Obituaries Project" (Out • November 2019) 41:15 "Layleen Cubilette-Polanco Died in the System, but Her Fight Lives On" (Out • November 2019) 45:30 ”Overlooked" (New York Times) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

An episode featuring Ashley C. Ford from "The Books That Changed Us," a new, short-run podcast hosted by Aaron and Max where authors discuss the books that made them who they are. The 10-episode series is part of Mailchimp's By The Books, a summer-long virtual literary festival curated by last week's Longform guests, Aminatou Sow and Ann Friedman. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Aminatou Sow and Ann Friedman are co-hosts of the podcast Call Your Girlfriend and co-authors of the new book Big Friendship: How We Keep Each Other Close.“People telling you about their lives is a real privilege and honor. No one owes you to tell you their story. Sometimes in the world of people who write or people who make media there is just this expectation that everything is on the table, especially if you’re two women who make media, that we’re supposed to just share our pain and everything that’s going on in our lives but that’s not fair and it’s not true and I think the larger project of this book is really sharing these stories in service of having an honest dialogue about how other people are doing friendship.” Thanks to Mailchimp for sponsoring this week's episode. Show notes: @aminatou @annfriedman bigfriendship.com annfriedman.com Longform Podcast #37: Ann Friedman 2:00 Mailchimp Presents: By The Books 19:00 Shine Theory 1:08:15 Carrie Frye Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Maria Konnikova is a journalist, professional poker player, and author of the new book The Biggest Bluff: How I Learned to Pay Attention, Master Myself, and Win. “I do think that writing and psychology are so closely interlinked. The connections between the human mind and writing are in some ways the same thing. If you’re a good writer, you have to be a good, intuitive psychologist. You have to understand people, observe them, and really figure out what makes them tick.” Thanks to Mailchimp for sponsoring this week's episode. [13:30] Mastermind: How to Think Like Sherlock Holmes (2013) [14:15] Longform Podcast #324: Malcolm Gladwell [16:30] "When Authors Disown Their Work, Should Readers Care?" (The Atlantic • August 2012) [16:30] "Is Huckleberry Finn's ending really lacking? Not if you're talking psychology." (Scientific American • October 2012) [19:45] The Confidence Game: Why We Fall for It . . . Every Time (2017) [23:15] The Grift Podcast [34:45] Rounders (1998) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Tessie Castillo, a journalist covering criminal justice reform, and George Wilkerson, a prisoner on death row in North Carolina, are two of the co-authors of Crimson Letters: Voices from Death Row. “I want other people to see what I see, which is that the men on death row are human beings. They’re incredibly intelligent and insightful and they have so many redemptive qualities...I don’t think I could really convey that as well as if they get their own voice out there. So I wanted this book to be a platform for them and for their voices.” –Tessie Castillo “For me, writing was like a form of conversation with myself or with my past, like therapy. So I just chose these periods in my life that I didn’t really understand and that were really powerful and impactful to me, and I just sat down and started writing to understand them and make peace with them.” –George Wilkerson Thanks to Mailchimp for sponsoring this week's episode. @TessietheWriter Castillo's archive [06:15] "A Second Chance" (Slate • May 2014) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Dean Baquet is executive editor of The New York Times. "I always tried to question what is the difference between what is truly tradition and core, and what is merely habit. A lot of stuff we think are core, are just habits. The way we write newspaper stories, that’s not core, that’s habit. I think that’s the most important part about leading a place that’s going through dramatic change and even generational change. You’ve got to say, here’s what’s not going to change. This is core. This is who we are. Everything else is sort of up for grabs." Thanks to Mailchimp for sponsoring this week's episode. Baquet’s archive at The New York Times [03:15] "Tom Cotton: Send In the Troops" (The New York Times • June 2020) [03:30] "A Reckoning Over Objectivity, Led by Black Journalists" (The New York Times • June 2020) [10:00] The Trust: The Private and Powerful Family Behind The New York Times (Jones, Tifft • Little, Brown • 1999) [29:45] Dean Baquet’s 1988 Pulitzer Prize [55:15] “Still Processing: The Day After” (The New York Times • November 2016) [1:09:15] Longform Podcast #254: Maggie Haberman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jacqueline Charles is the Caribbean correspondent at the .Miami Herald Guest host Patrice Peck is a freelance journalist and writes the newsletterCoronavirus News for Black Folks. "There are things that you see that if you start taking it in, you’re never going to stop and you’re not going to be able to do your job…I have family in all of these countries and when disaster strikes, you can’t help everyone. But what you hope is that with your pen, with your voice, with your recording of history…somebody somewhere will feel compelled to do something. So that’s what keeps me going." MailchimpApple BooksThanks to and for sponsoring this week's episode. @Jacquiecharles Charles’s archive at Miami Herald [58:45] "Flowers and Calls for Unity Mark Haiti’s 10th Anniversary Quake Commemoration" (Miami Herald • January 2020) [1:03:30] "Journalist Jacqueline Charles, Child of the Caribbean" (South Florida Times • July 2011) [1:03:30] “NABJ Names Miami Herald’s Jacqueline Charles Journalist of the Year” (National Association of Black Journalists • 2011) [1:04:15] Patrick Farrell’s 2009 Pulitzer Prize Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Kierna Mayo is the showrunner and head writer for the Lena Horne Prize for Artists Creating Social Impact. She is the former editor-in-chief of Ebony and Honey Magazine, which she co-founded at age 27. Guest host Patrice Peck is a freelance journalist and writes the Coronavirus News for Black Folks newsletter. Her most recent article is "Black Journalists Are Exhausted," an op-ed published in The New York Times. “Advocacy is not a bad word. Telling the truth about a particular slice of life is what my career has been. That slice of life started about young people who were partaking in hip hop culture. Most of them were of color, most of them were poor. So that was a perspective. If you begin to tell the stories of those people at that time, that begins to have an advocacy feel and taste and touch. Not even with a consciousness to it. Because this is a lost voice. This is a lost point of view. It is not in the mainstream. It is not being centered. No one is telling it. So the mere act of shedding light journalistically in places where there has been no light before is advocacy. Sorry, journalists. Sorry, all you impartial, fair-and-balanced folks.” Thanks to Mailchimp for sponsoring this week's episode. @kiernamayo kierna-mayo.format.com @speakpatrice Coronavirus News for Black Folks [3:00]"'Ebony Magazine' Explores 'The Cosby Show's' Tainted Legacy" (All Things Considered • Oct 2015) [4:30] "Black Journalists Are Exhausted" (Patrice Peck • New York Times • Jun 2020) [10:00] Jamilah Lemieux [48:00] "Does America Love Black People?" (Ebony • Jul 2015) [48:45] Amy DuBois Barnett [54:00] Damon Young [54:00] Michael Arceneaux [54:00] Zerlina Maxwell [54:00] Longform Podcast #395: Wesley Lowery [1:16:45] cassiuslife.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Wesley Lowery is a correspondent for “60 in 6” from 60 Minutes. He is the author of They Can't Kill Us All: Ferguson, Baltimore, and a New Era in America's Racial Justice Movement and won the 2016 Pulitzer Prize for "Fatal Force," a Washington Post project covering fatal shootings by police officers. “The police are not, in and of themselves, objective observers of things. They are political and government entities who are the literal characters in the story. They are describing the actions of people who are protesting them. They have incentives.” Thanks to Mailchimp for sponsoring this week's episode. @WesleyLowery Longform Podcast #222: Wesley Lowery In Ferguson, Washington Post reporter Wesley Lowery gives account of his arrest" (Washington Post • Aug 2014) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Philip Montgomery is a photojournalist. “The photographers that I grew up on all sort of had their moment… I sort of had, in this weird way, this feeling of envy that they had their moment with this story that was all-encompassing. Looking at it now, this is the story of my time, and it’s a little more than I perhaps bargained for.” Thanks to Mailchimp and Pitt Writers for sponsoring this week's episode. @philip_nyc philipmontgomery.com [04:23] "The Epicenter: A Week Inside New York’s Public Hospitals." (New York Times Magazine • April 2020) [24:55] "How Do You Maintain Dignity for the Dead in a Pandemic?" (New York Times Magazine • May 2020) [34:05] War Photographer (2001) [24:55] "Is Stop and Frisk Worth It?" (The Atlantic • April 2014) [48:28] "The Longest Night" (2014) [24:55] "Flash Points" (New Yorker • Aug 2015) [53:24] "‘We’ve Upped the Ante.’ Why Nancy Pelosi Is Going All in Against Trump" (Time • Jan 2020) [53:28] "Jeff Sessions Is Winning for Donald Trump. If Only He Can Keep His Job" (Time • March 2018) [53:30] "De Niro and Pacino Have Always Connected. Just Rarely Onscreen." (New York Times • Oct 2019) [54:00] "The Year's Great Performers Dancing in a Series of Short Films" (New York Times Magazine • Dec 2018) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Isaac Chotiner conducts interviews for The New Yorker. “People like to talk. They like to be asked questions, generally. In the space that I’m doing most interviews, which is politics or politics-adjacent, people have strong views and like to express them. It may be just as simple as that.” Thanks to Mailchimp and Pitt Writers for sponsoring this week's episode. @IChotiner Chotiner on Longform Chotiner's New Yorker archive [08:03] "V.S. Naipaul on the Arab Spring, Authors He Loathes, and the Books He will Never Write" (The New Republic • Dec 2012) [25:16] Talk (New York Times Magazine) [28:30] He Was a Science Star. Then He Promoted a Questionable Cure for Covid-19." (New York Times Magazine • May 2020) [29:24] "What We Know About Masks and the New Coronavirus" (New Yorker • April 2020) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

David Haskell is the editor-in-chief of New York Magazine. “Fingers crossed, knock on wood, we've got time here. You can't ever take that for granted, but I think it's fair to indulge a long-term perspective. More than fair, actually — I think it's part of the job, for me at least, to be plotting and dreaming years out. And to be fashioning the magazine toward that long-term vision as gingerly as I can without it breaking.” Thanks to Mailchimp, Pitt Writers, Squarespace, and Literati for sponsoring this week's episode. @DavidGHaskell davidhaskell.us Kings County Distillery [13:29] "Rich Corona, Poor Corona: Who Lives, Who Dies, Who Thrives" (New York Magazine • April 2020) [15:00] I Was Caroline Calloway (Natalie Beach • The Cut) [30:10] "What is College Without the Campus?" (New York Magazine • May 2020) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Cheryl Strayed is the author of Wild and Tiny Beautiful Things. Her new podcast is Sugar Calling. “I think that we have this limited idea of what ambition is. All through my twenties, you wouldn’t necessarily have looked at me and been like, ‘she’s ambitious.’ I mean, I was working as a waitress. I was goofing around and doing all kinds of things. But I was always writing. And I was always really sure and clear and serious about my writing. My ambition was this secret thing within me that I dedicated myself to.” Thanks to Mailchimp and Pitt Writers for sponsoring this week's episode. @CherylStrayed cherylstrayed.com Longform Podcast #144: Cheryl Strayed Strayed on Longform [07:12] Sugar Calling [23:21] Transparent Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Bonnie Tsui is a journalist and author of the new book Why We Swim. “I am a self-motivated person. I really don’t like being told what to do. I’ve thought about this many times over the last 16 years that I’ve been a full-time freelancer... even though I thought my dream was to always and forever be living in New York, working in publishing, working at a magazine, being an editor, writing. When I was an editor, I kind of hated it. I just didn’t like being chained to a desk.” Thanks to Mailchimp and Pitt Writers for sponsoring this week's episode. @bonnietsui bonnietsui.com [02:34] Why We Swim (Algonquin • 2020) [03:50] American Chinatown: A People's History of Five Neighborhoods (Tsui • Free Press • 2009) [11:02] The Deep (2012) [28:25] "With His Absence, My Artist Father Taught Me the Art of Vanishing" (Catapult • Feb 2019) [42:11] "After Fires, Napa and Sonoma Tourism Industry Is Getting Back on Its Feet" (New York Times • Oct 2017) [45:04] "Child Care: What — and Who — It Takes to Raise a Family" (California Sunday • July 2019) [49:38] "The Break: Female Big-Wave Surfers Prepare to Compete on Mavericks’s 50-Foot Waves for the First Time" (California Sunday • Aug 2018) [50:46] "Meet the Women Who Are Changing What it Means to be a Mom and a Professional Athlete" (Sports Illustrated • Dec 2019) [54:03] "You Are Doing Something Important When You Aren’t Doing Anything" (New York Times • June 2019) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Lulu Miller is a former producer at Radiolab and a co-founder of Invisibilia. Her new book is Why Fish Don't Exist: A Story of Loss, Love, and the Hidden Order of Life. “I think almost every radio story I’ve ever done comes down to the question of me trying to ask a person how they get through this life thing. How they get through this breakup. How they get through being disabled in a family that's crushing them. How they get through having a head that's poisonous. Every story is just, Oh, what's your trick?” Thanks to Mailchimp, Literati, and Pitt Writers for sponsoring this week's episode. @lmillernpr lutimestwo.com Miller's archive at NPR Invisibilia [04:57] Why Fish Don't Exist: A Story of Loss, Love, and the Hidden Order of Life (Simon & Schuster • 2020) [15:18] "The Reluctant Immortalist" (Invisibilia • April 2020) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Naomi Klein is a senior correspondent at The Intercept and the author of The Shock Doctrine and No Logo. Her most recent book is On Fire: The (Burning) Case for a Green New Deal. “I have no idea whether we will do this. All I know is there is a slim chance, a very slim chance, that we could make things a lot better than if we do nothing and just let it burn. The stakes of that are so high that I’m not going to spend my time trying to figure out whether our chances are good or not. I’m just gonna try to enlarge those chances.” Thanks to Mailchimp, Literati, and Pitt Writers for sponsoring this week's episode. @NaomiAKlein naomiklein.org Klein on Longform [20:09] "The Problem With Hillary Clinton Isn’t Just Her Corporate Cash. It’s Her Corporate Worldview." (The Nation • April 2016) [23:46] On Fire: The (Burning) Case for a Green New Deal. (Naomi Klein • Simon & Schuster • 2019) [25:38] No Logo (Picador • 1999) [25:39] The Shock Doctrine (Picador • 2007) [25:40] This Changes Everything (Simon & Schuster • 2014) [44:31] "In a Summer of Wildfires and Hurricanes, My Son Asks 'Why Is Everything Going Wrong?'" (The Intercept • Sep 2017) [45:13] The Take (2004) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Eva Holland is a freelance journalist and a correspondent for Outside. Her new book is Nerve: Adventures in the Science of Fear. “I'm less caught up in my freelance career anxieties every day that this goes on. Maybe I'll become a paramedic, who knows? Magazines I write for are already shutting down because of this. You can only freak out so much before you decide that if you end up having to find a new way to make a living, that's what you'll do.” Thanks to Mailchimp and Pitt Writers for sponsoring this week's episode. @evaholland Holland's archive at Outside Magazine Holland on Longform [07:31] Nerve: Adventures in the Science of Fear (Eva Holland • The Experiment • 2020) [30:50] "No Sleep 'Till Fairbanks" (SB Nation • March 2013) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ed Yong is the author of I Contain Multitudes and a science writer at The Atlantic . His most recent article is "How the Pandemic Will End." “Normally when I write things that are about a pressing societal issue, those pieces feel like they’re about things that need to get solved in timeframes of, say, months or years. ... But now I’m writing pieces that are affecting people’s choices and lives, and hopefully the direction of the entire country, on an hourly basis. The changes I hope to see, I hope to see immediately. Like right now. And that does create a massive sense of urgency, a sense of pressing, incredibly high stakes. And it’s a burden.” Thanks to Mailchimp and Pitt Writers for sponsoring this week's episode. @edyong209 edyong.me Yong on Longform [01:08] "How the Pandemic Will End" (The Atlantic • March 2020) [02:49] "The Next Plague Is Coming. Is America Ready?" (The Atlantic • July 2018) [28:21] "How a Pandemic Might Play Out Under Trump" (The Atlantic • Dec 2016) [39:33] Flash Forward Podcast [46:02] "The Last Giraffes on Earth" (The Atlantic • March 2020) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Charlie Warzel is a writer-at-large for The New York Times opinion page. “I’m relying on my morals more than I normally do, but less on my gut. The stakes are just so high.” Thanks to Mailchimp and Pitt Writers for sponsoring this week's episode. @cwarzel Warzel's archive at The New York Times Longform Podcast #291: Charlie Warzel Warzel on Longform [05:08] "Please, Don’t Go Out to Brunch Today" (New York Times • March 2020) [10:52] "Please, Listen to Experts About the Coronavirus. Then Step Up." (New York Times • March 2020) [29:57] "They Went off the Grid. They Came Back to Coronavirus." (New York Times • March 2020) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jon Mooallem is a journalist, author, and host of The Walking Podcast. His latest book is This is Chance!: The Shaking of an All-American City, A Voice That Held It Together. “There is this impulse that we have, this very clearly documented impulse that people everywhere have, to help. It sounds tacky, but when the bottom drops out, when ordinary life is overturned and there’s this upheaval or this disruption—if it’s a natural disaster or even something like this, that there’s ... in the book I call it a ‘civic immune response.’ People do spontaneously help each other, they work together, they collaborate. This whole idea that society falls apart and everyone descends into madness and violence is just not true. And we know that. We have science that shows it.” Thanks to Mailchimp and Pitt Writers for sponsoring this week's episode. @jmooallem jonmooallem.com Mooallem on Longform Longform Podcast #74: Jon Mooallem [08:29] This Is Chance!: The Shaking of an All-American City, A Voice That Held It Together (Random House • 2020) [11:26] "The Senseless Logic of the Wild" (New York Times Magazine • March 2019) [11:32] "Neanderthals Were People, Too" (New York Times Magazine • Jan 2017) [11:35] "We Have Fire Everywhere" (New York Times Magazine • July 2019) [34:45] Wild Ones: A Sometimes Dismaying, Weirdly Reassuring Story About Looking at People Looking at Animals in America (Penguin • 2013) [34:58] Black Prairie's soundtrack album to Wild Ones [35:39] "Wild Ones Live" (99% Invisible • Oct 2013) [36:47] "Death, Redesigned" (California Sunday • April 2015) [37:46] "One Man’s Quest to Change the Way We Die" (New York Times Magazine • Jan 2017) [44:10] Our Town: A Play in Three Acts (Thornton Wilder • 1938) [53:45] The Walking Podcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jad Abumrad is the co-creator and host of Radiolab. His new podcast is Dolly Parton's America. “There’s a way in which, I think, it felt more honest to be more confused in our stories. So that’s where we went.” Thanks to Mailchimp and Pitt Writers for sponsoring this week's episode. @JadAbumrad jadabumrad.com [03:27] "Patient Zero" (Radiolab • Nov 2011) [04:34] Dolly Parton's America [17:32] 9 to 5 (1980) [19:00] "Dixie Disappearance" (Dolly Parton's America • Dec 2017) [17:32] "My Tennessee Mountain Home" (1973) [33:10] More Perfect [33:19] "The Architect" (More Perfect • Dec 2017) [36:12] Democracy in America (Alexis de Tocqueville • 1835) [40:05] "Where Does the Term Redneck Come From?" (Slate • Dec 2019) [40:58] "Race" (Radiolab • Dec 2008) [42:10] "Yellow Rain" (Radiolab • Sep 2012) [1:05:47] "Playing God" (Radiolab • Aug 2016) [1:06:21] "Words" (Radiolab • Aug 2010) [1:07:31] "Musical Language" (Radiolab • Sep 2007) [1:08:07] "Lucy" (Radiolab • Feb 2010) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Mara Hvistendahl is a freelance reporter and was a Pulitzer Prize finalist for her first book, Unnatural Selection. Her new book is The Scientist and the Spy: A True Story of China, the FBI, and Industrial Espionage. “In times of tension, Cold War historians believe that there’s this mirroring that goes on, that we start to behave like the enemy, and that that is the big risk. And I feel like that’s the moment we’re in now.” Thanks to Mailchimp and Pitt Writers for sponsoring this week's episode. @MaraHvistendahl marahvistendahl.com Hvistendahl on Longform The Scientist and the Spy excerpt [00:45] The Scientist and the Spy: A True Story of China, the FBI, and Industrial Espionage (Mara Hvistendahl • Riverhead • 2020) [04:20] "Some People Just Smell Like Republicans" (Village Voice • Sep 2004) [09:36] "Rich Pickings" (Financial Times • Nov 2007) [10:42] Hvistendahl's archive at Science [15:20] "Half the Sky: How China’s Gender Imbalance Threatens Its Future" (Virginia Quarterly Review • Fall 2008) [15:20] "Can AI Escape Our Control and Destroy Us?" (Popular Science • May 2019) [16:42] "Meet the Flat-Earthers of the Modern Era" (Popular Science • Oct 2019) [16:44] "Inside China's Vast New Experiment in Social Ranking" (Wired • Dec 2017) [22:33] "The FBI’s China Obsession" (The Intercept • Feb 2020) [25:37] North by Northwest (1959) [30:20] "Some True Information is Impossible to Censor" (Matter • Oct 2014) [41:12] "‘If You Want to Kill Someone, We Are the Right Guys’" (Wired • April 2019) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hannah Dreier is a reporter at The Washington Post and the winner of the 2019 Pulitzer Prize for Feature Writing. “You can’t come up with a good story idea in the office. I’ve never had a good idea that I just came up with out of thin air. It always comes from being on the ground.” Thanks to Mailchimp and Pitt Writers for sponsoring this week's episode. @hannahdreier hannahdreier.com Dreier on Longform [01:49] "Former MS-13 Member Who Secretly Helped Police is Deported" (ProPublica • Jan 2019) [02:05] "Trust and Consequences" (Washington Post • Jan 2020) [02:33] Dreier's archive at New York [02:35] Dreier on This American Life [02:37] "How a Crackdown on MS-13 Caught Up Innocent High School Students" (New York Times Magazine • Dec 2019) [07:52] "A Child's Scraped Knee a Life or Death Matter in Venezuela" (Associated Press • Oct 2016) [08:50] "Life on the Line in Venezuela as Economic Crisis Worsens" (Associated Press • July 2016) [15:55] "Venezuela's Newest Shortage: Breast Implants" (Hartford Courant • Sep 2014) [17:52] "No Food, No Teachers, Violence in Failing Venezuela Schools" (Hartford Courant • Jun 2016) [30:29] "How a Crackdown on MS-13 Caught Up Innocent High School Students" (New York Times Magazine • Jan 2019) [30:34] "The Disappeared" (ProPublica • Sep 2018) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ronan Farrow is a Pulitzer-winning investigative reporter for The New Yorker. He is the author of Catch and Kill: Lies, Spies, and a Conspiracy to Protect Predators and hosts The Catch and Kill Podcast. “It was the opposite of anything I would’ve expected, breaking a story like that. It wasn’t a moment of celebration. I was immensely relieved, and immensely grateful for the sources … and I was so grateful for those people at the New Yorker who had worked so hard. But it was a strange, numb time for me that ended, at the end of that day, with me bursting into tears.” Thanks to Mailchimp and Pitt Writers for sponsoring this week's episode. @RonanFarrow Farrow's archive at The New Yorker The Catch and Kill Podcast [09:24] "How an Élite University Research Center Concealed its Relationship with Jeffrey Epstein" (New Yorker • Sep 2019) [09:56] "Les Moonves and CBS Face Allegations of Sexual Misconduct" (New Yorker • Jul 2018) [10:20] "From Aggressive Overtures to Sexual Assault: Harvey Weinstein's Accusers Tell Their Stories" (New Yorker • Oct 2017) [10:52] Ronan Farrow Daily on MSNBC [11:45] War on Peace: The End of Diplomacy and the Decline of American Influence (Ronan Farrow • W.W. Norton • 2018) [27:50] "My Oh Miley!" (W Magazine • Feb 2014) [32:53] Catch and Kill: Lies, Spies, and a Conspiracy to Protect Predators (Little, Brown • 2019) [33:18] "My Father, Woody Allen, and the Danger of Questions Unasked" (Hollywood Reporter • May 2016) [47:22] Farrow's interview on The Rachel Maddow Show (MSNBC • Oct 2017) [51:44] "The Black Cube Chronicles, Part I: The Private Investigators" (New Yorker • Oct 2019) [51:59] "Four Women Accuse New York's Attorney General of Physical Abuse" (New Yorker • May 2018) [52:40] "Donald Trump, a Playboy Model, and a System For Concealing Infidelity" (New Yorker • Feb 2018) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Joshua Yaffa is a Moscow correspondent for The New Yorker. His first book is Between Two Fires: Truth, Ambition, and Compromise in Putin's Russia. “Especially in a place like Russia, where there’s a lot of sensitivity around what people might tell you—when they do open up to you, there’s a lot of trust there. And you better not abuse it or mishandle it, because you could put people in danger. Just being a decent person, and demonstrating that decency, goes a long way.” Thanks to Mailchimp and Pitt Writers for sponsoring this week's episode. @yaffaesque joshuayaffa.com [19:45] "The Search for Petr Khokhlov" (New York Times Magazine • Jan 2015) [22:45] Longform Podcast #339: Michael Lewis [26:15] "Ukraine's Unlikely President, Promising New Style of Politics, Gets a Tase of Trump's Swamp" (New Yorker • Oct 2019) [30:15] "The Double Sting" (New Yorker • Jul 2015) [37:45] "Russia's House of Shadows" (New Yorker • Oct 2017) [37:45] "A Village Doctor's Literary Calling" (New Yorker • May 2019) [38:00] Citizen K (Alex Gibney) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices