Longform

Rachel Aviv is a staff writer for The New Yorker. Her new book is Strangers to Ourselves: Unsettled Minds and the Stories That Make Us. “I used to feel that if I knew everything, that was a good sign. And I've become more aware that if you know everything you want to argue, that's not such a good sign…. Do I have a genuine question? Is there something I’m trying to figure out? Then the story is worth telling. But if I don’t really have a question or if my question is already answered, then maybe that should give you pause.” Show notes: @rachelaviv Aviv on Longform Aviv on Longform Podcast Aviv's New Yorker archive 05:00 Strangers to Ourselves: Unsettled Minds and the Stories That Make Us (Farrar, Straus and Giroux • 2022) 03:00 "How An Ivy League School Turned Against A Student" (New Yorker • Mar 2022) 11:00 "Anorexia, The Impossible Subject" (Alice Gregory • New Yorker • Dec 2013) 12:00 "The Trauma of Facing Deportation" (New Yorker • Mar 2017) 28:00 The Warmth of Other Suns (Isabel Wilkerson • Vintage • 2011) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sam Anderson is a writer for New York Times Magazine and the author of Boom Town. “I love being in that place where everything is just coming in, and everything is potentially important, and I’m underlining every great sentence that John McPhee has ever written and then I’m typing it up into this embarrassingly long set of reading notes, documents, organized by books. And then when you sit down with it as a writer who has a job, and his job is to fill a little window of a magazine or website, all of that ecstatic inhaling has to stop. You realize that you’ve collected approximately 900,000% of what you need or could ever use.” Show notes: @shamblanderson shamblanderson.com Anderson on Longform Anderson’s New York TImes Magazine archive 03:00 "Kevin Durant and (Possibly) the Greatest Basketball Team of All Time" (New York Times Magazine • June 2021) 05:00 "The Mind of John McPhee" (New York Times Magazine • Sept. 2017) 05:00 Draft No. 4 (John McPhee • Farrar, Straus and Giroux • 2017) 07:00 "The Fierce Imagination of Haruki Murakami" (New York Times Magazine • Oct, 2011) 10:00 Boom Town (Crown • 2019) 19:00 "The Inscrutable Brilliance of Anne Carson" (New York Times Magazine • March 2013) 20:00 "David’s Ankles: How Imperfections Could Bring Down the World’s Most Perfect Statue" (New York Times Magazine • Aug. 2016) 35:00 "The Weirdly Enduring Appeal of Weird Al Yankovic" (New York Times Magazine • April 2022) 35:00 "The Mad Liberationist" (New York • May 2010) 35:00 "Laurie Anderson Has a Message for Us Humans" (New York Times Magazine • Nov. 2021) 35:00 "The Uses of ‘Mythologies’" (Richard Brody • New Yorker • April 2012) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Robert Samuels and Toluse Olorunnipa are reporters for The Washington Post and co-authors of the new book His Name Is George Floyd: One Man’s Life and the Struggle for Racial Justice. “Looking at George Floyd's family history, looking at the poverty that he grew up in, looking at the schools that he attended, which were segregated, looking at the opportunities that were denied to him and the struggles he had in the criminal justice system—it's an extraordinary American experience, in part because it's so outside of the norm of what we think of when we think of the American dream…. And so we wanted to be able to showcase that that kind of extraordinary American experience is ordinary for so many people.” Show notes: @newsbysamuels @ToluseO Samuels’s Washington Post archive Olorunnipa’s Washington Post archive 00:00 His Name Is George Floyd: One Man’s Life and the Struggle for Racial Justice (Viking • 2022) 03:00 "Covid-19 Is Ravaging Black Communities. A Milwaukee Neighborhood Is Figuring Out How to Fight Back." (Robert Samuels • Washington Post • Apr 2020) 04:00 "Stumbling Toward Wokeness" (Robert Samuels • Washington Post • Jul 2020) 05:00 "George Floyd’s America" (Washington Post Staff • Washington Post • Oct 2020) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Pablo Torre is a sports journalist and the host of the ESPN Daily podcast. “I have an open borders policy as a podcast. All are welcome, but I’m specifically appealing to people who want a little bit more of that magazine curation. What if I gave you one thing today, and that thing was the thing you needed, and what if that thing is deliberately different from every other way you consume sports? That’s the premise.” Show notes: @pablotorre pablotorre.squarespace.com Torre on Longform Torre on Longform Podcast Torre’s ESPN Daily archive 11:00 "Sue Bird on the WNBA Finals, Retirement, and a Career Like No Other" (Torre • ESPN • Sept 2022) 15:00 "The Survivor: From the Holocaust to the Munich Massacre, One Athlete’s Incredible Story" (Torre • ESPN • Sept 2022) 18:00 "The No. 16 Seed University of Maryland Baltimore County Topples Virginia in a Historic Sports Upset" (Ian Crouch • New Yorker • March 2018) 21:00 "Inside Jeremy Lin’s Life After Linsanity and the New York Knicks" (ESPN The Magazine • March 2015) 21:00 "The 76ers Plan to Win (Yes, Really)" (ESPN The Magazine • Jan 2015) 23:00 "WATCH: Sixers Fans Get Married at NBA Draft Lottery Party" (Nihal Kolur • Sports Illustrated • May 2018) 27:00 "How (and Why) Athletes Go Broke" (Sports Illustrated • March 2009) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Evan Osnos is a staff writer for The New Yorker. His new book is Wildland: The Making of America’s Fury. “I'm always trying to get inside a subculture. That's the thing that I think has been the most enduring, attractive element for me. Is there a world that has its own manners and vocabulary and internal rhythms and status structure? And who looks down on whom? And why? And who venerates whom? Who's a big deal in these worlds? And if I can get into that, it doesn't even really matter to me that much what the subculture is. I'm fascinated by trying to map that thing out.” Show notes: @eosnos evanosnos.com Osnos on Longform Osnos’s New Yorker archive 00:00 The Making of America’s Fury (Farrar, Straus and Giroux • 2021) 02:00 "Life After White Collar Crime" (New Yorker • Aug 2021) 03:00 "Doomsday Prep for the Super-Rich" (New Yorker • Jan 2017) 05:00 Osnos’s Chicago Tribune archive 19:00 "The Boxing Rebellion" (New Yorker • Jan 2008) 24:00 "Born Red" (New Yorker • Apr 2015) 34:00 "Wastepaper Queen" (New Yorker • Mar 2009) 38:00 "The Grand Tour" (New Yorker • Apr 2011) 46:00 "Welcome to the United States: The Shutdown Edition" (New Yorker • Oct 2013) 49:00 "The Haves and Have-Yachts" (New Yorker • Jul 2022) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Graciela Mochkofsky is a writer for The New Yorker and dean of CUNY's Newmark Graduate School of Journalism. She has written six nonfiction books in Spanish. Her new book, her first in English, is The Prophet of the Andes. “It connects with me as a journalist, actually — it’s this idea of just seeking truth and how elusive that is. So this is a person who thinks he can get to the true meaning of God and of how he needs to live. And he thinks that by asking the right questions, and by reading, and reading, and reading, and by discussing collectively, he can get to the truth. And he can’t.” Show notes: @gmochkofsky Mochkofsky on Longform Mochkofsky’s New Yorker archive 03:00 Timerman: El periodista que quiso ser parte del poder (Penguin Random House Grupo Editorial Argentina • 2012) 14:00 The Sirens of Mars (Sarah Stewart Johnson • Crown • 2021) 21:00 "The Missing Borges" (The Paris Review • April 2014) 21:00 "Henry Kissinger Will Not Apologize" (The Atlantic • Nov 2016) 21:00 "Obama’s Bittersweet Visit to Argentina" (New Yorker • March 2016) 21:00 "Mexico’s Literary Prankster Goes to War With His Publisher" (New Yorker • Dec 2015) 25:00 "CUNY’s New Spanish-Language Journalism Program, With Big Ambitions, Opens for Applications" (Shan Wang • Nieman Lab • March 2016) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nona Willis Aronowitz, an editor and author, writes a sex and love advice column for Teen Vogue. Her new book is Bad Sex: Truth, Pleasure, and an Unfinished Revolution. “I'm getting a lot of emails from people saying basically ‘You've inspired me to break up with my man tomorrow.’ Or ‘I may not ever break up with my man, but I'm starting to tell the truth, at least to myself, about my relationship.’ And I think a lot of people — even though I think being open about your feelings and acceptance of all kinds of lifestyles are two tenants of modern society — I still think there's a lot of silence around dissatisfaction around sex and love.” Show notes: @nona theothernwa.com Willis Aronowitz on Longform Willis Aronowitz’s Teen Vogue archive 02:00Willis Aronowitz’s Good archive 02:00Willis Aronowitz’s Splinter archive 04:00 "Ellen Willis, 64, Journalist and Feminist, Dies" (Margalit Fox • New York Times • Nov 2006) 10:00 "Consciousness-Raising Groups and the Women’s Movement" (Erin Blakemore • JSTOR Daily • March 2021) 29:00 "Everything You Ever Wanted to Know About ‘Bad Sex’ But Were Afraid to Ask" (Jessica Bennett • New York Times • Aug 2022) 43:00 Out of the Vinyl Deeps (Ellen Willis • University of Minnesota Press • 2011) 43:00 The Essential Ellen Willis (Ellen Willis • University of Minnesota Press • 2014) 43:00Ellen Willis’ New Yorker archive Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Caitlin Dickerson is a staff writer for The Atlantic covering immigration. Her latest article, on the secret history of U.S. government’s family-separation policy, is ”An American Catastrophe.” “Interviewing separated families, I’ve found, is just on a whole other scale of pain and trauma. I’ve watched people have really intense PTSD flashbacks in front of me. I never wanted to risk asking a family to open up in that way if I didn’t know that I’d be able to use that material. The worst thing you can do is waste someone’s time in a way that causes them pain.” Show notes: @itscaitlinhd Dickerson on Longform Dickerson’s Atlantic archive 09:00 Dickerson’s New York Times archive 09:00 Dickerson’s NPR archive 15:00 The Fifth Risk (Michael Lewis • W.W. Norton • 2019) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yudhijit Bhattacharjee is a contributing writer for National Geographic and the New York Times Magazine. His new podcast is Chameleon: Scam Likely. “I want a crumpled piece of paper where there are enough ridges and valleys and lines for me to be able to navigate, and they have to be authentic. And then of course the best stories among them will have surprise and intrigue, and things that are completely unexpected happen somewhere along the way. But it's hard to anticipate all of that. You still have to have a little bit of faith.” Show notes: @Yudhijit yudhijit.com Bhattacharjee on Longform Bhattacharjee’s National Geographic archive Bhattacharjee’s New York Times archive 03:00 "Who’s Making All Those Scam Calls?" (New York Times Magazine • Jan 2021) 06:00 "The Downfall of India’s Kidney Kingpin" (Discover Magazine • Aug 2010) 09:00 Natalie Angier’s New York Times archive 09:00 George Johnson’s New York Times archive 09:00 Gina Kolata’s New York Times archive 18:00 Bhattacharjee’s Science archive 26:00 "The Man Who Captures Criminals for the D.E.A. by Playing Them" (New Yorker • July 2018) 29:00 "My Father and Me: A Spy Story" (GQ • June 2012) 29:00 The Spy Who Couldn’t Spell (Penguin Random House • 2016) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hannah Goldfield is the food critic at The New Yorker. “There are just only so many ways to say ‘crunchy.’ There's ‘crunchy,’ there's ‘crisp,’ there's ‘crispy,’ you can say something ‘crackles,’ and that's kind of it. It's really, really hard. And a lot of things are crunchy. It's a really specific sensation that needs to be described. But I've had moments where I'm like, I can't say crunchy again in a sentence. What am I going to do? How do I get this across?” Show notes: @hannahgoldfield Goldfield’s New Yorker archive 02:00 My Best Friend’s Wedding (P.J. Hogan • Sony • 1997) 03:00Ruth Reichl's New York Times archive 09:00 Ratatouille (Brad Bird • Disney • 2007) 10:00 Garlic and Sapphires (Ruth Reichl • Penguin Random House • 2005) 15:00 "The Pandemic-Proof Atmosphere of the Odeon Outside" (New Yorker • Oct 2020) 15:00 "The Odeon Responds to the New Yorker" (Lynn Wagenknecht • Tribeca Citizen • Nov 2020) 22:00 "The Glorious Fish and Chips at Dame" (New Yorker • Jan 2021) 27:00 "Burmese Food and a Hopeful Vision at Yun Café & Asian Mart" (New Yorker • Sept 2020) 35:00 "How Kim Kardashian Is Bringing Buzz (and Business) to Staten Island" (Alyson Krueger • New York Times • May 2022) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sam Sanders is the former host of NPR’s It’s Been a Minute. He hosts Vulture’s Into It, which launched last week. “I don’t think I ever wanted a career where I was doing the same thing for 30 years. I think that, editorially, I had become someone who was really contemplating what kind of capital-j journalist I wanted to be, want to be, and I was questioning a lot of rules and the structure of what we think journalism is supposed to be, and I think I needed to be away from a legacy institution like NPR, at least for a spell, to work that out.” Show notes: @samsanders Sanders’ NPR archive 02:00 It’s Been a Minute (Sam Sanders • NPR • 2017) 02:00 NPR’s Politics Podcast (Tamara Keith and Scott Detrow • NPR • 2022) 28:00 "Eric André Talks ‘Bad Trip’ and Dangerous Pranks with Sam Sanders" (It's Been a Minute • April 2021) 29:00 "Joel Kim Booster Reflects on the 'Pride and Prejudice' of Fire Island's Party Scene" (Fresh Air • June 2022) 30:00 Psychosexual (Joel Kim Booster • Netflix • 2022) 32:00 "Maya Rudolph Once Struggled With Identity And Belonging. Now It's Her Inspiration" (It's Been a Minute • Aug 2021) 33:00 "Jennifer Lopez on Longevity and 'Second Act'" (It's Been a Minute • Dec 2018) 34:00 "A 1998 Jennifer Lopez Interview Is Going Viral for Her Comments About Other Actresses " (Kimberly Truong • InStyle • Sept 2019) 41:00 "The Business of Beyonc‪é" (Into It • July 2022) 48:00 Inside the Actors Studio (James Lipton • Bravo • 1994) 50:00 "Longform Podcast #491: Lulu Garcia-Navarro" 50:00 "Host Sam Sanders Calls Out NPR, Media Industry for Lack of Diversity: 'It Doesn't Sit Well'" (David Oliver • USA Today • March 2021) 50:00 "NPR Hosts' Departures Fuel Questions Over Race. The Full Story Is Complex" (David Folkenflik • NPR • Jan 2022) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Michael Pollan is a contributing writer for New York Times Magazine, the host of Netflix's How to Change Your Mind, and the author of nine books. The latest is This Is Your Mind On Plants. “I have found myself at two distinct points in my history having this transition from being the journalist, learning at the feet of these people, to becoming an advocate. And it’s an awkward role for a journalist, but at a certain point it would be kind of false to pretend you didn't have points of view, that there weren't directions in which you think the world should go. And the great thing about doing narrative nonfiction is that editors cut you a fair amount of slack at the end of a 10,000–word piece to say what you think.” Show notes: @michaelpollan michaelpollan.com Pollan on Longform Pollan on Longform Podcast Pollan’s New York Times archive Pollan’s Harper’s archive 01:00 How To Change Your Mind (Penguin Press • 2018) 01:00 How To Change Your Mind (Netflix • 2022) 06:00 "Channels of Communication Magazine" 09:00 "The Microdose Newsletter" 11:00 "The Future of Psychedelic-Assisted Psychotherapy" (Rick Doblin • TED • April 2019) 15:00 Second Nature (Grove Press; Reprint Edition • 2003) 17:00 "Caffeine" (Audible • 2019) 17:00 "Opium, Made Easy" (Harper’s • April 1997) 20:00 The Botany of Desire (Random House • 2002) 20:00 "Trip Treatment" (New Yorker • Feb 2015) 21:00 The Omnivore’s Dilemma (Penguin Press • 2007) 22:00 Fast Food Nation (Eric Schlosser • Penguin Random House • 2001) 24:00 A Life On Our Planet (David Attenborough • Netflix • 2020) 27:00 "The Morning After" (Robert Stone • Harper’s • Nov 1996) 27:00 "In Darkest Hollywood" (Stanley Elkin • Harper’s • Dec 1989) 28:00 "Shipping Out" (David Foster Wallace • Harper’s • Jan 1996) 28:00 "Gravy Boat: My Week on the High Seas with Paula Deen and Friends" (Caity Weaver • Gawker • Feb 2014) 28:00 "Ticket to the fair" (David Foster Wallace • Harper’s • July 1994) 35:00 Food Rules (Penguin Press • 2009) 42:00 "The Rubber Hand Illusion" (Horizon • BBC • Oct 2010) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Evan Ratliff, a co-host of the Longform Podcast, is host of the new podcast Persona: The French Deception. “One of these big scams is like a story. And in the story, what they're doing is they're manipulating you to be a participant in the story, and they're getting you so hooked that you will not just do anything they say, but you will invest yourself in bringing the story to its conclusion. And like, isn't that what you're doing if you're trying to get someone to listen to eight episodes, spend that much of their life listening to your voice? … The idea that every story has this person pulling the strings... I like revisiting that in everything that I do." Show notes: @ev_rat cazart.net Ratliff on Longform Longform Podcast #48: Evan Ratliff Longform Podcast Bonus Episode: Evan Ratliff (April 2016) Longform Podcast: Evan Ratliff, author of The Mastermind (March 2019) 1:00 Persona: The French Deception (Pineapple Street Studios, Wondery • May 2022) 2:00 Exit Scam (Treats Media • May 2021) 7:00 Thank You For Calling (Vito Films • March 2015) 9:00 The Mastermind: Drugs. Empire. Murder. Betrayal. (Random House • Jan 2019) 10:00 "The Fall of the Billionaire Gucci Master" (Bloomberg Businessweek • Jun 2021) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Andrea Elliott is an investigative reporter for The New York Times. Her recent book, Invisible Child: Poverty, Survival & Hope in An American City, won a Pulitzer Prize. ”I don’t see reporting as a one-way street. ... I think that people need to know as much as they can about you. And yes, there are boundaries ... but at the same time, the fact of the boundaries is something to talk about with the people you’re writing about. Isn’t it weird that this is my job to be reporting on your life when we can laugh and we can break bread together and I spend all these hours with you and you know about my kids? ... And at the same time, I’m also here to write a book. ... And those two facts I learned to just allow to coexist within me. But it was not easy.” Show notes: @andreafelliott andrea-elliott.com Elliott on Longform 00:00 Invisible Child: Poverty, Survival & Hope in An American City (Random House • 2021) 01:00 "When Dasani Left Home" (New York Times Magazine • Sept 2021) 04:00 "Invisible Child: Girl in the Shadows, Dasani’s Homeless Life" (New York Times • Dec 2013) 17:00 "An Imam in America: Tending to Muslim Hearts and Islam's Future" (New York Times • Mar 2006) 17:00 "An Imam in America: To Lead the Faithful in a Faith Under Fire" (New York Times • Mar 2006) 17:00 "An Imam in America: A Muslim Leader in Brooklyn, Reconciling 2 Worlds" (New York Times • Mar 2006) 17:00 "An Imam in America: A Cleric’s Journey Leads to a Suburban Frontier" (New York Times • Jan 2007) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nicholson Baker is the author of 18 books of fiction and nonfiction. He has written for The New Yorker, Harper’s, and many other publications. His latest book is Baseless: My Search for Secrets in the Ruins of the Freedom of Information Act. "In the end, I don’t care how famous you get, how widely read you are during your lifetime. You’re going to be forgotten. And you’re going to have five or six fans in the end. It’s going to be your grandchildren or your great-grandchildren are going to say, Oh, yeah, he was big. … So I think the key is, write what you actually care about. Because in the end, you’re only doing this for yourself. … So maybe do your best stuff for yourself and for the three, four, five people who know in the coming century that you ever existed. That’s all you need to do." Show notes: @nicholsonbaker8 nicholsonbaker.com The Mezzanine (Grove Press • 1988) Baseless (Penguin Press • 2020) 10:00 Human Smoke (Simon & Schuster • 2009) 10:00 "Wrong Answer" (Harper's • Sept 2013) 11:00 Room Temperature (Grove Press • 2010) 11:00 U and I (Random House • 2000) 11:00 Vox (Publisher • 2000) 11:00 The Fermata (Author if different from Writer • Publisher • 2000) 12:00 "The Projector" (New Yorker • Mar 1994) 12:00 The Size of Thoughts (Vintage Contemporaries • 1996) 13:00 "The Author vs. the Library" (New Yorker • Oct 1996) 19:00 Double Fold (Vintage • 2002) 30:00 Lab 257 (Michael Carroll • Willam Morrow Paperbacks • 2005) 33:00 Longform Podcast #192: Seymour Hersh 33:00 The Killing of Osama Bin Laden (Seymour Hersh • Verso • 2017) 33:00 Longform Podcast #321: Nicholas Schmidle 33:00 "Getting Bin Laden" (Nicholas Schmidle • New Yorker • Aug 2011) 46:00 Baker's New Yorker archive Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Rebecca Traister is a writer for New York and the author of Good and Mad: The Revolutionary Power of Women’s Anger. Her latest article is "The Necessity of Hope." “A big motivation of this piece, which I think is framed in this there’s still reason to hope is actually the inverse of that. Which is: Let us be crystal clear about what is happening, what is lost, what is violated. The cruelty, the horror, and the injustice, and that is it only moving toward worse right now. And to establish that to then say that it is the responsibility to really absorb that, and then figure out how to move forward.” Show notes: @rtraister rebeccatraister.com Traister on Longform Traister on Longform Podcast 5:00 "Roe's Final Hours in One of America's Largest Abortion Clinics" (Stephania Taladrid • New Yorker • Jun 2022) 10:00 "The Dissenters Say You're Not Hysterical" (Irin Carmon • New York • Jun 2022) 23:00 "The Immoderate Susan Collins" (New York • Feb 2020) 26:00 Traister's Salon archive 26:00 "Abortion’s Deadly DIY Past Could Soon Become Its Future" (New York • Jan 2017) 27:00 "Let's Just Say It: Women Matter More Than Fetuses Do" (The New Republic • Nov 2014) 27:00 "The Institutionalist" (The Cut • Jun 2022) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Alexandra Lange is a design critic whose work has appeared in The New Yorker, The New York Times, and many other publications. Her new book is Meet Me by the Fountain: An Inside History of the Mall. “I really like to write about things that I can hold and experience. I'm not that interested in biography, but I am very interested in the biography of an object. ... Like I feel about the objects, I think, how most people feel about people. So what I'm always trying to do is communicate that enthusiasm and that understanding to my reader, because these objects really have a lot of speaking to do.” Show notes: @LangeAlexandra alexandralange.net Lange on Longform 00:00 Lange's Design Observer archive 00:00 Lange's Curbed archive 00:00 Meet Me by the Fountain: An Inside History of the Mall (Bloomsbury • 2022) 15:00 "Malls and the Future of American Retail" (Curbed • Feb 2018) 17:00 "Owings Mills Mall in 1986" (YouTube) 21:00 Lange's New York Magazine archive 21:00 Lange’s Tumblr 26:00 Witold Rybczynski’s Architect Magazine archive 30:00 The Design of Childhood: How the Material World Shapes Independent Kids (Bloomsbury • 2018) 35:00 New Angle: Voice (Beverly Willis Architecture Foundation) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Lulu Garcia-Navarro is a former war correspondent and host of NPR’s Weekend Edition. Her new podcast, for the New York Times, is First Person. “I would always say that if you go cover a story and you already know what people are going to say, and you already have it in your head what the outcome is, and there's no surprise there, then that's a story that you shouldn't be working on. You have to allow the opportunity for there to be a journey. And for there to be something at the end of it, that is gonna be like, Wow. I really never thought that. I didn't think that I was coming here to report on that, but I guess that's what I'm here to report on.” Show notes: @lourdesgnavarro Garcia-Navarro's NPR archive 00:00 First Person (New York Times • 2022) 19:00 "Polk Award Winners: Clarissa Ward" (Longform Podcast • Apr 2022) 42:00 "Abortion Didn’t Feel Like an Option. Neither Did Motherhood." (New York Times • Jun 2022) 45:00 "Longform Podcast #1: Matthieu Aikins" (Aug 2012) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Matt Levine is a finance columnist for Bloomberg News. His newsletter is Money Stuff. ”I write a lot about people who have gotten in trouble with the SEC or the Justice Department. And a surprising subset of them will email me. And often I will have made fun of them, and they'll be like, ‘That was pretty fair.’” Show notes: @matt_levine Levine's Bloomberg News and Money Stuff newsletter archive 19:00 "The Goldman Sachs Aluminum Conspiracy Was Pretty Silly" (Bloomberg News • Nov 2014) 22:00 "Don’t Insider Trade NFTs" (Bloomberg News • Jun 2022) 23:00 "Elon Has a New Bot Excuse" (Bloomberg News • Jun 2022) 24:00 "The GameStop Game Never Stops" (Bloomberg News • Jan 2021) 24:00 "Crypto Is Going Through Some Things" (Bloomberg News • May 2022) 39:00 Levine's Dealbreaker archive 44:00 Noahpinion (Noah Smith • Substack) 45:00 "Everything Everywhere Is Securities Fraud" (Bloomberg News • Jun 2019) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We've got something a little different today, the trailer for co-host Evan Ratliff's brand-new podcast Persona: The French Deception. It's the story of Gilbert Chikli, one of the greatest con artists of all time. Over eight episodes, Evan investigates how Chikli duped some of the world’s most powerful people into handing over their fortunes, evaded the law for years, and became a Robin Hood-like hero to many in the process. More than just a tale of criminal genius, Persona is about the moment we’re living in right now — the golden age of scammers — and the power of seduction. But what happens when the fantasy we’ve been lured into finally crumbles away? The first two episodes of Persona: The French Deception are available starting today wherever you get your podcasts. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Molly Lambert is a writer and host of the new podcast HeidiWorld: The Heidi Fleiss Story. “I think as a writer I always had this thing: I don't want to be out front. I don't want the spotlight on me. I'm not an actor. I want to be lurking in the back with the cast accepting the applause, but I don't want to be the center of attention. And so I think kind of like making peace with like, Look man, it's fine to be the center of attention when you made something you're proud of.” Show notes: @mollylambert Lambert on Longform HeidiWorld: The Heidi Fleiss Story (iHeartPodcasts • 2022) 01:00 Deckheads: Chief Stews! (Anna Hossnieh and Molly Lambert) 07:00 O.J.: Made in America (Ezra Edelman • ESPN Films, Laylow Films • 2016) 10:00 Inherent Vice (Thomas Pynchon • Penguin Books • 2010) 10:00 Vineland (Thomas Pynchon • Penguin Classics • 1997) 11:00 You Must Remember This (Karina Longworth) 11:00 Once Upon a Time… In the Valley: T-R-A-C-I (Lili Anolik • C13Originals • 2020) 12:00 Short Cuts (Robert Altman • Fine Line Features • 1993) 16:00 "Young Playwrights Get Off-Bway Spotlight in Sondheim Founded Fest" (Playbill • Sep 2002) 21:00 Lolita Podcast (Jamie Loftus • iHeartRadio • 2021) 24:00 "Porntopia" (Grantland • Mar 2015) 24:00 Karina Longworth on Longform Podcast 32:00 "‘Mad Men’ Week 1: Catching Tigers in Red Weather" (Grantland • Apr 2015) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sam Knight is a London-based staff writer for The New Yorker. His new book is The Premonitions Bureau: A True Account of Death Foretold. “I had a kind of working definition of what a premonition was when I was writing this book, which is: It's not just a feeling. It's not just a hunch. It's just not like a sense in the air. It's like, you know. You know, and you don't even want to know because you can't know and no one's going to believe you that you know, but you know. And what are you going to do about it? It's a horrible feeling.” Show notes: @samknightwrites samknight.net Knight on Longform Knight's New Yorker archive Knight's Guardian archive 09:00 "Mixed up in Minsk" (Times of London • Mar 2007) 09:00 "Summer Celebrations in Mongolia" (Times of London • Dec 2007) 10:00 "Enter Left" (New Yorker • May 2016) 17:00 "Inside the Snow Globe" (Harper’s • Jul 2011) 21:00 "The Bouvier Affair" (New Yorker • Feb 2016) 21:00 "How Football Leaks is Exposing Corruption in European Soccer" New Yorker • Jun 2019) 21:00 "How the Sandwich Consumed Britain" (Guardian • Nov 2017) 21:00 "The Spectacular Power of Big Lens" (Guardian • May 2018) 27:00 "Sadiq Khan Takes on Brexit and Terror" (New Yorker • Jul 2017) 27:00 "The Empty Promise of Boris Johnson" (New Yorker • Jun 2019) 27:00 "Theresa May’s Impossible Choice" (New Yorker • Jul 2018) 27:00 "Nicola Sturgeon’s Quest for Scottish Independence" (New Yorker • May 2021) 28:00 "Operation London Bridge: The Secret Plans for the Days After the Queen's Death" (Guardian • Mar 2017) 30:00 "President Trump’s First Term" (Evan Osnos • New Yorker • Sep 2016) 30:00 "The Earthquake That Will Devastate the Pacific Northwest" (Kathryn Schulz • New Yorker • Jul 2015) 34:00 The Premonitions Bureau: A True Account of Death Foretold (Penguin • 2022) 45:00 "The Psychiatrist Who Believed People Could Tell the Future" (New Yorker • Mar 2019) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Mitchell S. Jackson is a journalist and author. His profile of Ahmaud Arbery, ”Twelve Minutes and a Life,” won the 2021 Pulitzer Prize for Feature Writing. ”What is 'great'? 'Great' isn’t really sales, right? No one cares what James Baldwin sold. So: Are you doing the important work?” Show notes: @MitchSJackson mitchellsjackson.com Jackson on Longform 00:00 "Twelve Minutes and a Life" (Runner’s World • Jun 2020) 01:00 Pafko at the Wall (Don DeLillo • Scribner • 2001) 03:00 "Ahmaud Arbery’s Final Minutes: What Videos and 911 Calls Show" (Malachy Browne, Drew Jordan, Dmitriy Khavin and Ainara Tiefenthaler • New York Times • May 2020) 12:00 "We Went to Vegas to Wring Joy From Heartbreak" (New York Times Magazine • Sep 2021) 16:00 Survival Math (Scribner • 2020) 24:00 The Residue Years (Bloomsbury • 2014) 29:00 "Chuck Palahniuk, Tom Spanbauer Share Writing Secrets" (Jeff Baker • Oregonian • May 2014) 34:00 "When Michael B. Jordan Promises to Come Home, He Means It" (Esquire • Nov 2019) 36:00 "Chris Rock's Plan for Immortality" (Esquire • May 2021) 44:00 "Prison" (Richard Just, Editor • Washington Post • Oct 2019) 44:00 "Calendars" (Washington Post • Oct 2019) 45:00 Olio (Tyehimba Jess • Wave Books • 2016) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Joe Bernstein is a senior reporter for BuzzFeed News. “The question of disinformation is almost an attempt to create a new mythology around why people act the way they do. I don’t mean to say that it’s some kind of nefarious plot. ... It’s a natural, or a convenient explanation. And that’s why I think it caught on for some time anyway.” Show notes: @Bernstein Bernstein on Longform 02:00 "Bad News: Selling the Story of Disinformation" (Harper's • Aug 2021) 12:00 "How Tucker Carlson Stoked White Fear to Conquer Cable" (Nicholas Confessore • New York Times • Apr 2022) 18:00 Subprime Attention Crisis: Advertising and the Time Bomb at the Heart of the Internet (Tim Hwang • FSG Originals • Oct 2020) 25:00 Charlie Warzel on Longform Podcast (Mar 2020) 26:00 "'Look At What We’re Doing With Your Money, You Dick': How Peter Thiel Backed An 'Anti-Woke' Film Festival" (BuzzFeed News • Mar 2022) 28:00 "The Curious Life and Mind-Altering Death of Justin Clark" (Christopher Robbins • New York Magazine • Feb 2022) 36:00 "'Corrosive Communities': How A Facebook Fight Over Wind Power Predicts the Future of Local Politics in America" (BuzzFeed News • Dec 2021) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Vauhini Vara is a contributing writer at Wired and author of the novel The Immortal King Rao. “With a magazine story, it might be like six months or a year or two, if it's something that took you a long time. With this [novel], it was 13 years for me, but the sort of emotional arc felt similar, where there were these periods of despair and a sense that like, this wasn't going anywhere, and then these periods where like, I'm a genius and this is going to be the best book ever written. You go back and forth, as we do with our journalism. But then with every draft of it, I always felt like, all right, this is better than the last draft at least. I don't know what the next one is going to look like, but this is definitely an improvement. And I feel like that's what kept me feeling like I was at least moving in the right direction.” Show notes: @vauhinivara vauhinivara.com Vara on Longform 01:00 "Bee-Brained" (Harper's • May 2017) 11:00 "Special Counsel" (California Sunday • Jun 2015) 30:00 "New Workers of the World" (Bloomberg Businessweek • Jul 2017) 32:00 "Can This Startup Break Big Tech’s Hold on A.I.?" (Fortune • Jun 2018) 32:00 "Fast, Cheap, and Out of Control: Inside Shein’s Sudden Rise" (Wired • May 2022) 37:00 "Ghosts" (The Believer • Aug 2021) 37:00 "The Political Awakening of Silicon Valley" (California Sunday • Sep 2017) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Azmat Khan is an investigative reporter for the New York Times Magazine. She won the George Polk Award for uncovering intelligence failures and civilian deaths associated with U.S. air strikes. “I think what was really damning for me is that, when I obtained these 1,300 records, in not one of them was there a single instance in which they describe any disciplinary action for anyone involved, or any findings of wrongdoing. … When I was looking at this in totality, suddenly it’s really hard to say you have a system of accountability.” This is the last in a week-long series of conversations with winners of this year's George Polk Awards in Journalism. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Daniel Chang covers health care for the Miami Herald. Along with Carol Marbin Miller, he won the George Polk Award for "Birth & Betrayal," a series co-published with ProPublica that exposed the consequences of a 1988 law designed to shelter medical providers from lawsuits by funding lifelong care for children severely disabled by birth-related brain injuries. “I think that someone on the healthcare beat looks for stories from the perspective of patients, people who want or need to access the healthcare system and for different reasons cannot. It’s a pretty complicated system and it’s difficult for most people to understand how their health insurance works — and that’s if they have health insurance. If they don’t, there is a whole other system they have to go through. What you look for is access issues and accountability for that.” This is the latest in a week-long series of conversations with winners of this year's George Polk Awards in Journalism. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sarah Stillman is a staff writer for The New Yorker and the director of the Global Migration Program at Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism. She won the George Polk Award for "The Migrant Workers Who Follow Climate Disasters." “I’m all about the Venn diagram where the individual meaningful stories of things people are up against intersect with the big systemic injustice issues of our day. It feels like climate is clearly an enormous domain where it’s been hard in some ways to tell substantive stories of where actual human beings are navigating and pushing back on some of these huge cultural forces.” This is the third in a week-long series of conversations with winners of this year's George Polk Awards in Journalism. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Maria Abi-Habib is the bureau chief for Mexico, Central America and the Caribbean for the New York Times. Along with her colleague Frances Robles, Abi-Habib won the George Polk Award for revealing concealed aspects of the murder of Haitian president Jovenel Moïse. “We’re not going to stop covering Haiti just because you don’t like us … at the end of the day you owe it to your citizens to talk to the media because if you can’t talk to the media and actually answer some questions, how are you going to run a country? We’re not doing this for ourselves, we’re doing this because we think that Haiti matters and we think Haitians, like all citizens in this world, actually deserve some answers to their questions and to know what the truth is.” This is the second in a week-long series of conversations with winners of this year's George Polk Awards in Journalism. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Clarissa Ward is the chief international correspondent for CNN. Along with field producer Brent Swails and photojournalists William Bonnett and Scott McWhinnie, Ward won the 2022 George Polk Award for her real-time coverage of the rapid rise of the Taliban as U.S. forces withdrew from Afghanistan last summer. “I used to come back from war zones and feel completely disconnected from my life—disconnected from my friends, from my family. I would look down on people about the conversations they were having about silly things. I would feel kind of numb and miserable. And then I realized that if you want to be able to keep doing this work, you have to choose to embrace the privileges that you've been given. And you have to choose joy and choose love and be kind to yourself and have a glass of wine and go dancing or run up a mountain—whatever it is that does it for you, embrace it. That is part of the tax you pay for surviving these things: You've got to continue to love life.” This is the first in a week-long series of conversations with winners of this year's George Polk Awards in Journalism. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jackie MacMullan is an NBA journalist who has written for The Boston Globe, Sports Illustrated and ESPN. She hosts the podcast Icons Club for The Ringer. “[Athletes] think they don't need journalists—and they're wrong. And I tell them all this. I'm like, ‘I know you think you've got your own production company, but we can tell your story better than you can.' That's just the truth. No one tells their own story the best. It's the people around them that tell the story the best. And nobody wants a whitewashed version of you. They want warts and all. That's what makes you lovable. That's what makes you interesting. ... There are great journalists out there that can tell your story—and it might not be exactly the way you want it to be told, but it'll have weight and it'll have legacy to it.” Show notes: MacMullan's Sports Illustrated archive MacMullan's ESPN archive Jackie MacMullan says goodbye to Around the Horn 01:00 "Journalism Pioneer Jackie MacMullan, Former Globe Columnist, to Retire From ESPN" (Chad Finn • Boston Globe • Aug 2021) 18:00 Bird Watching: On Playing and Coaching the Game I Love (Larry Bird, Jackie MacMullan • Grand Central Publishing • 1999) 21:00 When the Game Was Ours (Larry Bird, Earvin Johnson, Jackie MacMullan • Houghton Mifflin Harcourt • 2009) 22:00 Shaq Uncut (Shaquille O’Neal, Jackie MacMullan • Grand Central Publishing • 2011) 24:00 Icons Club (The Ringer • 2022) 27:00 ESPN Daily (Pablo Torre • ESPN) 27:00 The Book of Basketball: The NBA According to the Sports Guy (Bill Simmons • ESPN • 2010) 39:00 The Last Dance (Netflix • 2020) 49:00 "When Making the NBA Isn't a Cure-All: Mental Health and Black Athletes" (ESPN • Aug 2018) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

“Human beings, we are the same, right? Like when you come out of the womb, you need to eat, you need to sleep, you need to pee, you need to shit, and when it comes to emotional needs, you need to feel loved. You need to feel there's compassion, you know? You need to feel significant and of value. And when it comes to like the feeling of significance and feeling valued, I think that's where we start to get into trouble because the same things that you hold of value, I may not in the same way. […] And so if I can engage you and recognize the perspective from which you come, and at least give you an entry level or a human level of respect from the beginning, then the departure point for our engagement is a proper one, as opposed to an antagonistic one.” @alzoslade VICE on Showtime Cheat on Apple Podcasts 15:00 "Moment of Truth: The Day Dr. Christine Blasey Ford Told Her Story About Brett Kavanaugh" (VICE News • Oct 2018 2019) 20:00 "Season 1, Episode 2: India Burning & Russia's Fight Factory" (VICE on Showtime • Apr 2020) 25:00 "Season 1, Episode 5: Quitting WeWork & Losing Ground & Italy's Darkest Hour" (VICE on Showtime • Apr 2020) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Chloé Cooper Jones is a philosopher and journalist whose work has appeared in GQ, The Verge, The Believer and many other publications. Her new book is Easy Beauty. ”I literally didn't talk to anyone in my life about disability until I was, like, 30. Ever. Not my husband, not my friends, as little as possible to my own mother. I had this very bad idea that what I needed to do in every single social situation was wait until people could unsee my body…. And it was all in service of trying to be truly recognized or truly seen. And, of course, what was happening is I was involved in a complete act of self erasure because my body and my real self are related…. There is no real me without my physical self…. I did not think I was going to ever write about this, but once I started, it felt like I met myself for the first time.” Show notes: @CCooperJones chloecooperjones.com Cooper Jones on Longform 00:00 Easy Beauty (Avid Reader Press/Simon & Schuster • 2022) 01:00 "Fearing for His Life" (The Verge • Mar 2019) 02:00 "Contemplating Beauty in a Disabled Body" (New York Times Magazine • Mar 2022) 19:00 "Such Perfection" (The Believer • Jun 2019) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Maya Shankar is a cognitive scientist and the host of A Slight Change of Plans. ”I am a type A person through and through. I love having the five-year plan and the ten-year plan, and mapping it all out. By nature, that's what I'm like. And I think the series of pivots that my life has naturally taken, or I've had to take, has kind of soured me on that whole way of thinking. […] Maybe it's also that I'm a more grateful person than I used to be. Like, I feel more gratitude, and so part of my orientation now is, well, how lucky am I that I even stumbled upon something?” Show notes: @drmayashankar mayashankar.com Apple Podcasts' Best of 2021 35:00 A Slight Change of Plans, "A Black Musician Takes on the KKK" (Pushkin Industries • May 2021) 38:00 A Slight Change of Plans, "Maya's Slight Change of Plans" (Pushkin Industries • Oct 2021) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hanif Abdurraqib is a poet, essayist, and critic whose work has appeared in The New Yorker, The New York Times Magazine and many other publications. His new book is A Little Devil in America: In Praise of Black Performance. “I learn from hearing my elders tell stories. There’s an inherent knowing of yourself as a vessel for narration who also has to—is required to—hold the attention of others at all costs. And that’s essentially what I’m trying to do. The broader project of my writing is almost a constant pleading of: Don’t leave yet. Stay here with me for just a little bit longer.” Show notes: @NifMuhammad abdurraqib.com Abdurraqib on Longform 02:00 A Little Devil in America (Random House • 2021) 09:00 Psychotic Reactions and Carburetor Dung (Lester Bangs • Anchor • 1988) 10:00 The Crown Ain’t Worth Much (Button Poetry • 2016) 14:00 They Can’t Kill Us Until They Kill Us (Two Dollar Radio • 2017) 20:00 Go Ahead in the Rain: Notes to A Tribe Called Quest (University of Texas Press • 2019) 25:00 Stakes Is High (De La Soul • Tommy Boy, Warner Brothers • 1996) 33:00 Black Movie (Danez Smith • Button Poetry • 2014) 37:00 Abdurraqib's MTV News archive 39:00 "Mo Salah Is Ready to Make the Whole World Smile" (Bleacher Report • Jun 2018) 44:00 Red Dead Redemption (Rockstar Games • 2010) 47:00 The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild (Nintendo • 2017) 47:00 Elden Ring (Bandai Namco Entertainment • 2022) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Joshua Yaffa is a correspondent for The New Yorker, the author of Between Two Fires: Truth, Ambition, and Compromise in Putin's Russia, and has been reporting from Ukraine for the last several weeks. His most recent article is "What the Russian Invasion Has Done to Ukraine." “I’m not at all a conflict reporter. I don't like it, though who would like being in these situations? But this is the story, right? If you cover this part of the world, if the war in 2014 felt like the tectonic plates of history were shifting, now they're just erupting, crashing. This is the asteroid-impact event for this part of the world with effects that will last similarly long going forward.” Show notes: @yaffaesque joshuayaffa.com Yaffa on Longform Longform Podcast #379: Joshua Yaffa Yaffa's New Yorker archive 03:00 "On the Road With Ukraine's Refugees" (Sabrina Tavernise • The Daily • Mar 2022) 7:00 "What the Russian Invasion Has Done to Ukraine" (New Yorker • Mar 2022) 12:00 "Ukraine's Unlikely New President, Promising a New Style of Politics, Gets a Taste of Trump's Swamp" (New Yorker • Oct 2019) 33:00 "In the Rubble of Kharkiv, Survivors Make Their Stand: ‘It’s a War, and It’s a Dirty War’" (Yaroslav Trofimov • Wall Street Journal • Mar 2022) 33:00 "A Russian airstrike kills 9 civilians in Mykolaiv" (Michael Schwirtz • New York Times • Mar 2022) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Heather Havrilesky writes the Ask Polly and Ask Molly newsletters. Her latest book is Foreverland: On the Divine Tedium of Marriage. “It’s not a good story when you're bullshitting people. I didn't want this book to feel like bullshit…. I wanted to show enough that you could feel reassured that it's normal to feel conflicted about your life and the people in it. It's normal to feel anxious about how much people love you. And it's normal to feel avoidant about how much people love you. It's normal to feel like a failure in the face of trying to stay with someone over the course of your entire life.” Show notes: @hhavrilesky Havrilesky on Longform Havrilesky on Longform Podcast Foreverland: On the Divine Tedium of Marriage (Ecco • 2022) 1:00 "US author, 51, confesses she 'hates' her husband of 16 years in new memoir about what marriage is REALLY like - as she compares him to 'a pointy Lego brick underfoot' and 'a snoring heap of meat' (but they're not splitting up)" (Harriet Johnson • Daily Mail • Feb 2022) 01:00 "Woman Claims She “Hates” Husband In Memoir" (The View) 06:00 Disaster Preparedness (Riverhead Books • 2011) 06:00 What If This Were Enough? (Anchor • 2019) 06:00 Havrilesky's New York archive 06:00 askpolly.substack.com 06:00 askmolly.substack.com 11:00 "Heather Havrilesky Compares Her Husband to a Heap of Laundry" (Walter Kirn • New York Times • Feb 2022) 12:00 "Marriage Requires Amnesia" (New York Times • Dec 2021) 14:00 "Heather Havrilesky on hating her husband and her tell-all memoir, Foreverland" (Willy Somma • Times UK • Feb 2022) 15:00 "Wife calls marriage ‘insane,’ hates her husband: ‘Snoring heap of meat’" (Andrew Court • New York Post • Feb 2022) 27:00 How to Be a Person in the World (Anchor • 2017) 32:00 "Our ‘Mommy’ Problem" (New York Times • Nov 2014) 48:00 Havrilesky’s Twitter thread addressing The View (Mar 2022) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Laura Shin is a journalist covering cryptocurrency and hosts the podcast Unchained. Her new book is The Cryptopians: Idealism, Greed, Lies, and the Making of the First Big Cryptocurrency Craze. “I was extremely well-acquainted with what the failings were with our traditional financial system. I was seeing through my other reporting how everything works now, and really understanding, whoa, this is not a good system. And then getting this education on what bitcoin is, I understood right away: wow, this is going to change the world.” Show notes: @laurashin laurashin.com 03:00 The Fintech 50 (Forbes) 16:00 The Breakdown Podcast (Nathaniel Whittemore • Coindesk) 29:00 "Exclusive: Austrian Programmer And Ex Crypto CEO Likely Stole $11 Billion Of Ether" (Forbes • Feb 2022) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Tara Westover is the author of Educated. “I used to be so fearful. ... I was afraid of losing my family. Then, after I had lost them, I was afraid that I made the wrong decision. Then I wrote the book and I was afraid that was the wrong decision. Everything made me frightened back then, and I just—I don't have that feeling now.” Show notes: @tarawestover tarawestover.com 00:00 Educated (Random House • 2018) 09:00 "I Am Not Proof of the American Dream" (New York Times • Feb 2022) 21:00 A Visit from the Goon Squad (Jennifer Egan • Knopf • 2011) 35:00 Nobel Lecture (Kazuo Ishiguro • 2017) 36:00 The Body Keeps the Score (Bessel Van Der Kolk • Penguin • 2015) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Matthieu Aikins is a contributing writer at The New York Times Magazine who has reported on Afghanistan since 2008. His new book is The Naked Don’t Fear the Water: An Underground Journey with Afghan Refugees. “I think at some point you just say, screw it. I'm gonna act like a human being and help my friend. That's the most important thing. You actually realize, yeah, now that we're in it together, the only thing that matters is both of us staying alive and staying safe and getting where we need to go. And whatever I have to do to do that, I'm going to do.” Show notes: @mattaikins maikins.com Aikins on Longform Longform Podcast #1: Matthieu Aikins 08:00 "The Master of Spin Boldak" (Harper's • Dec 2009) 38:00 Aikins on The Daily (New York Times • Sep 2021) 39:00 "Inside the Fall of Kabul" (New York Times Magazine • Dec 2021) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Brian Reed and Hamza Syed are co-hosts of the new podcast The Trojan Horse Affair. “I had lost all faith in the reporting that already happened on the subject matter. And that was my mentality with each source and each interviewer. I wanted the debate ended in the room because I didn't want commentary beyond it. I didn't want any kind of interpretation beyond it. I wanted the situation to be resolved there and then…. And without certain answers, I thought we weren't going to be able to speak about this matter in the way that I wanted to speak about it.” —Syed “I both desperately wanted to know the answer of who wrote the letter, but kind of understood that we probably weren't going to get it beyond a shadow of a doubt. And I thought that I had transmitted that to Hamza and that he understood that. But as time went on, I realized that he had not accepted that as the likely outcome. And this is what was actually so energizing to work with you, Hamza. You never let your hope and desire and hunger to get that answer ever get dimmed. Like, ever.” —Reed Show notes: @BriHReed @HamzaMSyed Reed on Longform Podcast 00:00 S-Town (Serial Productions • 2017) 01:00 The Trojan Horse Affair (Serial Productions • 2022) 21:56 "Trojan Horse Primary Barred Muslims from Easter Classes, Tribunal Hears" (Richard Adams • The Guardian • Dec 2015) 49:00 Serial: Season Three (Serial Productions • 2018) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Chuck Klosterman is a journalist and the author of eleven books, including his latest, The Nineties. ”Selling out… was very much injected into the way I understood the world…. And I am now supposed to do all of these interviews and all of these podcasts promoting this book. And because it's a book about the nineties… it feels incredibly uncomfortable to me…. I think young people assume that selling out is only about money: that if you try to do something to make money, that means you're selling out, because the word ‘sell’ is in there. But that's not really how it was. I mean, what you were selling out was this idea of your integrity. And what your integrity was, was somehow not doing anything to make other people like you.” Show notes: @CKlosterman chuckklostermanauthor.com Klosterman on Longform 00:00 The Nineties (Penguin Press • 2022) 10:00 Capitalist Realism (Mark Fisher • Zer0 Books • 2009) 15:00 Klosterman's SPIN archive 29:00 Fargo Rock City (Scribner • 2001) 30:00 Sex, Drugs and Cocoa Puffs (Scribner • 2003) 31:00 Killing Yourself to Live (Scribner • 2005) 57:00 "A 12th L.A. Lakers Title and Remembering Eddie Van Halen with Ryen Russillo and Chuck Klosterman" (The Bill Simmons Podcast • 2020) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Khabat Abbas is an independent journalist and video producer from northeastern Syria, and the winner of the 2021 Kurt Schork News Fixer Award. ”I can see from my experience that there is a gap between the editors, who are kind of elites in their luxury offices, and the amazing journalists who are in the field, who all sympathize with what they are seeing on the ground and want to cover [it], but they have to satisfy the editors. And this is how we end up having little gaps in the ways of covering in general. It's not a matter of like, they shaped it in this way. The problem, I think, it’s bigger. How this industry is working, how this industry is deciding what they should cover.” Show notes: @khabat_abas Kurt Schork Awards in International Journalism 34:00 "'Belief Allows Us to Move Forward,' Said One Female Soldier in Battle Against ISIS" (ABC News • July 2017) 40:00 "The Former 'Caliphate Capital' Is Haunted by Fears of an ISIS Comeback" (Washington Post • May 2020) 43:00 "How ISIS Women and Their Children Are Being Left Stranded in the Desert" (Washington Post • Dec 2019) 43:00 "ISIS at a Crossroads" (Washington Post • Dec 2019) 43:00 "After the ISIS Caliphate: Thousands of Islamic State Fighters Captured in Syria Face Uncertain Fate" (Washington Post • Dec 2019) 51:00 "'This Is Ethnic Cleansing': A Dispatch from Kurdish Syria" (New York Review of Books • Oct 2019) 51:00 "For Kurds on the Syrian Front Line There’s No Ceasefire" (The Daily Beast • Nov 2019) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Michael Schulman is a staff writer for The New Yorker. He recently profiled Jeremy Strong of Succession. ”There's an interesting moment that's part of this job where you’ve spent a lot of time with someone and it often feels very personal and very intimate. And then when you go to write the piece, you have to sort of take a breath and say to yourself, Okay, I'm not writing this for this person. I'm writing this for the reader.” Show notes: @MJSchulman michael-schulman.com Schulman on Longform Schulman's New Yorker archive 01:00 "On ‘Succession,’ Jeremy Strong Doesn’t Get the Joke" (New Yorker • Dec 2021) 03:00 Her Again: Becoming Meryl Streep (Harper • 2016) 09:00 "Wendy Williams Dishes the Dirt" (New Yorker • May 2021) 35:00 "Adam Driver, the Original Man" (New Yorker • Oct 2019) 37:00 "A Defense of Jeremy Strong (and All the Strivers With No Chill)" (Elizabeth Spiers • New York Times • Jan 2022) 44:00 "Bridget Everett is Larger than Life" (New Yorker • Jan 2022) 45:00 "The Otherworldly Comedy of Julio Torres" (New Yorker • Dec 2020) 47:00 "Bo Burnham’s Age of Anxiety" (New Yorker • Jun 2018) 47:00 "Troye Sivan’s Coming of Age" (New Yorker • Jun 2019) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sarah Marshall is a writer and hosts the podcast You're Wrong About. ”I love it when people tell me that listening to the way I talk about these people in the stories that we tell, and just about the world generally, has made them practice empathy more. I almost feel like I have preserved this a-little-bit-past version of myself, because I've been on this journey throughout the pandemic of becoming pretty cynical, and then deciding cynicism is a luxury and that it feels better, ultimately, to try to believe in people.” Show notes: remembersarahmarshall.com Marshall on Longform You're Wrong About 05:00 "Your 2012 Baby Name Guide: Puritan Edition" (The Hairpin • Jan 2012) 08:00 "Remote Control" (The Believer • Jan 2014) 12:00 "The End of Evil" (The Believer • Feb 2018) 17:00 "Talking Tammy Faye Bakker w. Jessica Chastain" (You're Wrong About • Jan 2022) 46:00 "The O.J. Simpson Trial: The DeLorean Detour" (You're Wrong About • Feb 2021) 47:00 "The O.J. Simpson Trial: Kato Kaelin Part 1" (You're Wrong About • Dec 2019) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Abe Streep is a journalist and contributing editor for Outside. His new book is Brothers on Three: A True Story of Family, Resistance, and Hope on a Reservation in Montana. ”The way journalists talk about, ‘Did you get the story?’—that's not how I see this. That would be extractive in this setting, I think. If someone shares something personal with me, that is a serious matter. It's a gift and you’ve got to treat it with great respect.” Show notes: @abestreep abestreep.com Streep on Longform 03:00 "What the Arlee Warriors Were Playing For" (New York Times Magazine • Apr 2018) 03:00 Brothers on Three: A True Story of Family, Resistance, and Hope on a Reservation in Montana (Celadon Books • 2021) 09:00 "The Legends of Last Place" (The Atavist • Apr 2013) 24:00 Custer Died for Your Sins (Vine Deloria • University of Oklahoma Press • 1988) 34:00 Friday Night Lights (H.G. Bissinger • Da Capo • 1990) 34:00 The Last Shot: City Streets, Basketball Dreams (Darcy Frey • Houghton Mifflin • 1994) 35:00 Counting Coup: A True Story of Basketball and Honor on the Little Big Horn (Larry Colton • Grand Central • 2001) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Connie Walker is an investigative reporter and podcast host. Her latest show is Stolen: The Search for Jermain. “For so long, there has been this kind of history of journalists coming in and taking stories from Indigenous communities. And that kind of extractive, transactional kind of journalism really causes a lot of harm. And so much of our work is trying to undo and address that. There is a way to be a storyteller and help amplify and give people agency in their stories.” Show notes: @connie_walker Walker's CBC News archive 00:00 Missing & Murdered (CBC News) 04:00 "The Injustice to Pamela George Continues Long After Her Murder" (Heather Mallick • Toronto Star • Jan 2020) 08:00 Street Cents (CBC) 12:00 "Alicia Ross: Everyone’s Daughter" (Catherine McDonald • Global News • Apr 2020) 14:00 Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada 19:00 8th Fire, Ep. 1: "Indigenous in the City" (CBC • 2012) 19:00 8th Fire, Ep. 2: "It’s Time" (CBC • 2012) 19:00 8th Fire, Ep. 3: "Whose Land Is It Anyway?" (CBC • 2012) 19:00 8th Fire, Ep. 4: "At the Crossroads" (CBC • 2012) 22:00 "Missing and Murdered Aboriginal Women: A National Operational Overview" (Royal Canadian Mounted Police • 2014) 24:00 "Missing and Murdered: The Life and Mysterious Death of Leah Anderson" (CBC News • Mar 2015) 26:00 Serial 27:00 "Amber Tuccaro's Unsolved Murder: Do You Recognize This Voice?" (Marnie Luke and Connie Walker • CBC News • Jun 2015) 27:00 "Unresolved: Patricia Carpenter" (Holly Moore • CBC News • Jun 2016) 27:00 Missing & Murdered Season 1: Who Killed Alberta Williams? (Connie Walker and Marnie Luke • CBC News) 27:00 Missing & Murdered Season 2: Finding Cleo (Connie Walker and Marnie Luke • CBC News) 35:00 Ochberg Fellowship 37:00 "Duncan McCue on Reporting in Indigenous Communities" (Ryerson Today • Apr 2018) 37:00 Reporting in Indigenous Communities Guide (Duncan McCue) 39:00 Stolen (Gimlet • 2021) 39:00 "Jermain Charlo Missing Two Years on Tuesday" (Seaborn Larson • Missoulian • Jun 2020) 44:00 "Monday's Montanan: Lauren Small Rodriguez Helps Native Trafficking Survivors" (Patrick Reilly • Missoulian • Feb 2020) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Parul Sehgal, a former a book critic for The New York Times, is now a staff writer at The New Yorker. “My job is I think to be honest with the reader and to keep surfacing new ways for me and for other people to think about books. New vocabularies of pleasure and disgust.” Show notes: parulsehgal.com @parul_sehgal Sehgal's New York Times archive “Mothers of Invention: A Group of Authors Finds New Narrative Possibilities in Parenthood” (Bookforum • 2015) “In Letters to the World, a New Wave of Memoirs Draws on the Intimate” (New York Times • 2019) “#MeToo Is All Too Real. But to Better Understand it, Turn to Fiction.” (New York Times • 2019) Jia Tolentino on Longform “Peter Luger Used to Sizzle. Now It Sputters.” (Pete Wells • New York Times • 2019) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

George Saunders is the author of eleven books. His latest is A Swim in a Pond in the Rain: In Which Four Russians Give a Master Class on Writing, Reading, and Life. ”I really have so much affection for being alive. I really enjoy it. And yet, I’m a little negative minded in a lot of ways too, like I really think things tend to be fucked up. ... To get that on the page—to sufficiently praise the loveliness of the world without being a sap, and also lacerate the world for being so goddamn mean—to do those in the same story would be a great aspiration. And I haven’t gotten there yet.” Show notes: georgesaundersbooks.com Saunders on Longform Saunders on the Longform Podcast (Jan 2014) Saunders' Story Club newsletter 16:00 "First Thohts on Reviision" (Story Club • Dec 2021) 28:00 "The Great Divider" (GQ • Jan 2007) 48:00 "Sea Oak" (New Yorker • Dec 1998) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Emily Oster is an economist, professor, and author. Her new book is The Family Firm. ”[COVID] has been 18 months of being a person who is slightly more public, who is saying things that are somewhat more controversial, where people yell at me a lot. ... I do much less reading of the comments than I did early on because I found that eventually I just got mad and that's not a productive way to interact. And it affects how I think about what I write, and I would like what I write to be the things that I think are true, not the things I think will avoid people being angry.” Show notes: @ProfEmilyOster emilyoster.net "Steve Cohen-Backed Radkl Hires DeFi Trader Aaron Lammer" (Nick Baker • Bloomberg • Nov 2021) Expecting Better (Penguin Books • 2014) Cribsheet (Penguin Books • 2020) The Family Firm (Penguin Books • 2021) Oster’s Parent Data newsletter 35:00 "Antibiotics and Allergies, Zika, Travel Baby Carriers..." (Parent Data • Feb 2020) 36:00 "Grandparents & Day Care" (Parent Data • May 2020) 36:00 "She Fought to Reopen Schools, Becoming a Hero and a Villain" (Dana Goldstein • New York Times • Jun 2021) 36:00 "Emily Oster, the Brown Economist, Is Launching a New Data Hub on Schools and the Pandemi." (Dana Goldstein • New York Times • Sept 2021) 36:00 "Schools Aren’t Super-Spreaders" (The Atlantic • Oct 2020) 37:00 "Your Unvaccinated Kid Is Like a Vaccinated Grandma" (The Atlantic • Mar 2021) 42:00 Oster’s COVID-19 School Response Dashboard 44:00 "Emily Oster Thinks of Herself As an Expert on Data in Parenting, Not Parenting Itself" (Alex Hazlett • The Cut • Aug 2021) 45:00 "Pandemic Schooling Mode and Student Test Scores: Evidence from US States" (Clare Halloran, Rebecca Jack, James Okun, Emily Oster • NBER • Nov 2021) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices