Future Christian

What does it mean to center the life of the church around the table—and why has the Eucharist so often been pushed to the margins? In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with Rev. Dr. Jarrod Longbons about cultivating a Eucharistic movement in the modern church. Drawing from theology, liturgical practice, and pastoral experience, Longbons invites leaders to reconsider how worship has shifted toward production and consumption—and what is lost when the table is no longer central. The conversation explores how the Eucharist forms identity over time, not just as a ritual but as a way of life. Rather than seeing communion as an add-on or symbolic moment, they discuss how it can become the organizing center of worship, shaping how communities understand grace, presence, and participation. They also reflect on how modern church models often prioritize content over formation, why repetition and liturgy still matter, and what it might look like to reorient church life around shared practices that cultivate deeper community and spiritual depth. Together they explore: Why the Eucharist has been marginalized in modern worship The difference between consumer-driven worship and Eucharistic formation How the table shapes identity, community, and mission The formative power of liturgy and repetition What it looks like to re-center worship around communion Practical ways church leaders can begin cultivating a Eucharistic culture Rev. Dr. Jarrod Longbons is the Senior Minister of Peachtree Christian Church, where he seeks to share the heart of Christ in the heart of the city. A pastor-theologian and gifted communicator, he brings together thoughtful biblical interpretation, pastoral warmth, and a passion for connecting faith with contemporary life. Jarrod is deeply committed to discipleship, worship, and cultivating a church that serves both its members and the wider community. His ministry is shaped by a love for teaching, the arts, and the formation of leaders for the Church. He and his family consider it a joy to walk alongside the people of Peachtree in God’s ongoing work of renewal and hope. Outside of ministry, he enjoys Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Golf, and Fly Fishing. Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Jarrod's Church Website: Peachtree Christian Church 🎧 Jarrod's Podcast: Complex Creatures 🎧 Jarrod's Podcast: Who Watches the Re-Watchers 🟧 Jarrod's Substack: keepafire.substack.com 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Andrew Root 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Ted Smith 🎧 Episodes Referenced: DOC Roundtable 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Ryan Burge Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/ Supporting Sponsors: Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History Available for Pre-order now! Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer SEO / Keywords Eucharistic movement, Eucharist theology, communion centrality, Lord’s Supper, sacramental theology, liturgical renewal, table-centered worship, worship formation, consumer vs formative worship, church worship practices, liturgy and repetition, embodied faith, communal worship, spiritual formation church, re-centering the church, historic Christian practices, future of the church, church leadership and worship, Jarrod Longbons, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.

What does it really take to engage younger generations—and why do so many of our assumptions about them fall short? In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with sociologist Dr. Josh Packard about his book Faithful Futures and what churches often misunderstand about Gen Z and Gen Alpha. Drawing from years of research, Packard challenges the tendency to reduce younger generations to stereotypes and instead invites leaders to approach them with curiosity, humility, and a posture of listening. The conversation explores how rapid cultural change has created a “fast and slow” dynamic in young people’s lives, why relationships—not institutions—are now the primary source of trust, and how churches can rethink formation beyond simply passing down right answers. They also discuss the importance of communal worship in an age of loneliness, the role of sacred space, and how young people are constructing “micro-narratives” of meaning in a world where institutional authority is often questioned. Together they explore: Why generational stereotypes fail—and what to focus on instead The “fast and slow” reality of growing up today How trust has shifted from institutions to relationships Why listening matters more than giving answers The role of communal worship and sacred space in a lonely world How young people build meaning through “micro-narratives” Dr. Josh Packard is the co-founder of Future of Faith and one of the foremost experts in the spiritual lives of American youth and religious trends in the United States. He is an accomplished researcher in the sociology of religion and new forms of religious expression. He is a frequent keynote speaker and acts as an advisor and board member to a number of faith-based organizations. Josh has authored numerous books and articles in both popular and academic outlets including the recently released Faithful Futures: Sacred Tools for Engaging Younger Generations. Previous books include Church Refugees: Sociologists reveal why people are DONE with church but not their faith and Meaning Making: 8 Values That Drive America’s Newest Generations. Josh was previously a professor, founding Executive Director of Springtide Research Institute and Executive Vice President of Strategy with the National Catholic Educational Association. He has a BA in English from Texas Lutheran University and Ph.D. in Sociology from Vanderbilt University. He lives in Greeley, Colorado with his wife and teenage son where he is quickly becoming the third best golfer in his family of three. Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Josh's Website: Future of Faith 📖 Josh's Book: Faithful Futures 📱Twitter/X: @drjoshpackard 📱 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshpackard/ 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Andrew Root 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Megan Bissell 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Mike Orr 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Ryan Burge Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/ Supporting Sponsors: Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History Available for Pre-order now! Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer SEO / Keywords contemporary worship, praise and worship history, worship wars, worship industry, church music theology, hymns vs modern worship, liturgy renewal, lament in worship, worship leader burnout, secular songs in church, worship culture, evangelical worship music, mainline worship styles, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.

What does it mean to live faithfully in a world that rewards conformity—and why might the Christian life feel “weird”? In this episode, Martha Tatarnic talks with Aaron Miller about what it looks like to follow Jesus in a way that resists cultural expectations and embraces a more intentional, embodied faith. Drawing from his ministry experience and writing, Aaron reframes “weird” not as something to avoid, but as a sign of living in alignment with the kingdom of God. The conversation explores how practices like prayer, Scripture, lament, and worship form disciples who can live with clarity and conviction in a complex world. Aaron also highlights the role of imagination in the Christian life—both as a response to cultural challenges and as a way to envision communities shaped by hope. They discuss the importance of formation over performance, the tension between cultural relevance and faithfulness, and how local churches can cultivate rhythms that sustain authentic discipleship. Together they explore: Why the Christian life can feel “weird”—and why that’s not a problem The role of spiritual practices in forming faithful disciples How imagination shapes both personal faith and church life The importance of lament, presence, and embodied faith What it looks like to live with intentionality in everyday life Rev Aaron Miller is the congregational minister at University Hill United Church, and the UCC campus minister at the University of British Columbia. He is the author of Witnesses of These Things: Faithfulness Here and Now, and Weird in the World: Living Towards the World God Wants. Aaron lives in Vancouver with his wife, Kate, and their teenaged sons. Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Aaron's Website: 📖 Aaron's Book: Weird in the World 📖 Aaron's Book: Witnesses of These Things 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Andy Root 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Kara Root Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/ Supporting Sponsors: Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History Available for Pre-order now! Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer SEO / Keywords Aaron Miller, Martha Tatarnic, Christian discipleship, spiritual formation, living weird for Jesus, Christian practices, prayer and Scripture, lament and worship, imagination and faith, Sermon on the Mount, Psalm 34, practicing the way, church leadership formation, mainline church, authentic faith, embodied discipleship, Future Christian Podcast

What can sports rivalries and cultural moments reveal about leadership, character, and the values that shape us? In this episode, Loren and Martha take a conversational turn that begins with sports, competition, and cultural dynamics—but quickly opens into deeper reflections on character, leadership, and community. What starts as a lighthearted discussion about sports rivalries between Canada and the United States becomes a thoughtful conversation about identity, integrity, and how competition reveals the values that lie beneath the surface of our culture. Along the way, they reflect on how rivalry, loyalty, and belonging shape the way communities see themselves and others. The conversation also explores the ways everyday cultural moments—whether sports, media, or shared public experiences—can open surprising opportunities to think more deeply about leadership, character, and the habits that form us. This episode offers a reflective and engaging conversation about competition, identity, and the cultural stories that shape the way we live and lead. Together they explore: How sports rivalries shape identity and community What competition reveals about character and leadership The cultural narratives embedded in sports and public life The tension between rivalry, belonging, and respect How everyday cultural moments can open deeper conversations about values and faith Mentioned Resources: 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Bill Harrison 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Arianna Molloy Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/ Supporting Sponsors: Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History Available for Pre-order now! Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer SEO / Keywords Martha Tatarnic, sports and faith, leadership and character, competition and culture, Christian leadership formation, church leadership conversations, cultural analysis and faith, community and identity, discipleship and culture, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr., faith and culture discussion

What does it mean to belong to God when the structures of faith you once trusted begin to fall apart? In this episode, Loren talks with Kara Root—pastor, spiritual director, and author of The Deepest Belonging and A Pilgrimage into Letting Go—about faith, loss, and the surprising ways God rebuilds belief when certainty collapses. Drawing from her own journey through the unraveling of a ministry-centered evangelical world, Kara reflects on how faith can be rebuilt from the ground up through pilgrimage, prayer, and honest encounters with suffering. The conversation explores the difference between inherited faith and lived faith, and why belonging to God often emerges most clearly when our illusions fall away. They also discuss the role of Sabbath rest, spiritual practices, and pastoral leadership in helping congregations navigate seasons of change and uncertainty. This episode offers a reflective and hopeful conversation about letting go of what no longer holds—and discovering the deeper belonging God offers in its place. Together they explore: How faith can be rebuilt after the collapse of inherited religious systems The spiritual significance of pilgrimage and letting go Why belonging to God is deeper than belonging to institutions The role of Sabbath, prayer, and spiritual practices in sustaining faith How pastors and churches navigate seasons of change and uncertainty Rev. Kara K. Root is the author of The Deepest Belonging (2021), Receiving This Life: (2023), and A Pilgrimage Into Letting Go (2025, with husband, Andy). ​Pastor of Lake Nokomis Presbyterian Church in Minneapolis, MN, a Christian community that shapes its life around worship, hospitality and Sabbath rest, she is a trained Spiritual Director and Certified Educator in the PCUSA. Being mom to two intrepid young adults (and a goofy dog), and wife and proofreader to a wily theologian, spices up her vocational calling and keeps her fully immersed in life. She has written for Sparkhouse, Working Preacher, Christian Century, Christianity Today, Faith and Leadership, Patheos and more. Kara leads retreats and workshops on sabbath rest, prayer practices, and church leadership and transformation. ​​Kara and her husband, Andy, lead workshops and speak together through Root Creative, inc. Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Kara's Website: https://www.karakroot.com/about.html#/ 📖 Kara's Book: A Pilgrimage into Letting Go 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Andy Root 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Kelsey McGinnis Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/ Supporting Sponsors: Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History Available for Pre-order now! Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer SEO / Keywords Kara Root, The Deepest Belonging, A Pilgrimage into Letting Go, faith after deconstruction, spiritual pilgrimage, Sabbath practices, spiritual formation, rebuilding faith, pastoral leadership, church and doubt, belonging to God, Christian spiritual practices, evangelicalism and faith transition, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.

How did contemporary praise and worship develop—and who is shaping what the church sings today? In this episode, Loren talks with Kelsey McGinnis to explore the evolution of modern worship, the lingering effects of the “worship wars,” and the growing influence of the worship industry on local congregations. They discuss how large-scale production and publishing networks shape song selection and theology, the unseen pressures facing worship leaders, and what healthy support actually looks like in a local church. The conversation also revisits the hymns versus modern worship debate, the renewed interest in liturgy, and whether lament, silence, and stillness have space in contemporary services. This episode offers a thoughtful, grounded look at how what we sing forms what we believe—and how churches might lead worship more intentionally in the years ahead. Together they explore: The rise of contemporary praise and worship How the worship industry shapes theology and song selection The pressures facing today’s worship leaders Hymns, liturgy, and the place of lament Whether secular songs belong in church Kelsey McGinnis is the worship correspondent for Christianity Today. She holds a PhD in musicology and teaches music and theology at Grand View University in Des Moines, Iowa, and writes broadly on Christian music and the intersection of American Christianity and popular culture. Kelsey is a coauthor of the book The Myth of Good Christian Parenting and the author of a forthcoming book about Christian diet and wellness culture. She lives in central Iowa with her husband and three children. Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Kelsey's Website: https://www.kkramermcginnis.com/ 📖 Kelsey's Book: The Myth of Good Christian Parenting 🟧 Kelsey's Substack: https://kkramermcginnis.substack.com/ 📱 Instagram: @kelseykmcginnis 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Michelle Van Loon 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Michael Huerter 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Robert Schuller Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/ Supporting Sponsors: Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History Available for Pre-order now! Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer SEO / Keywords contemporary worship, praise and worship history, worship wars, worship industry, church music theology, hymns vs modern worship, liturgy renewal, lament in worship, worship leader burnout, secular songs in church, worship culture, evangelical worship music, mainline worship styles, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.

What does Gen Z really believe about God? And what are they actually asking? In this episode, Loren talks with Tanita Tualla Maddox, National Director for Generational Impact at Young Life and author of What Gen Z Really Wants to Know About God. Tanita offers a compelling case for cultural apologetics—understanding the lens through which Gen Z asks timeless questions like “Is God good?” She also challenges churches to move from abstract teaching to concrete spiritual practices that help young people live out their faith in real relationships. Together they explore: Why headlines about Gen Z “revival” can be misleading The reality of low trust culture—and how to earn it How Gen Z defines acceptance, belonging, and safety Why evangelism must go beyond “just invite your friends to church” Practical ways churches can disciple students in a post-Christian world The importance of teaching young people to articulate their own testimony Why isolating teenagers from the broader church might be a mistake Tanita Tualla Maddox (DMin, Phoenix Seminary) is the national director for generational impact for Young Life and serves as an associate regional director in the Mountain West Young Life region. With an expertise in contextualizing the gospel for Gen Z, Tanita has been featured on The Holy Post podcast and has been published in The Great Commission Research Journal, the Journal of Youth and Theology, and more. She has served as Young Life leader with adolescents for over twenty-six years and serves as a volunteer Young Life leader in her local community. She lives in Spokane, Washington, with her husband and two children. Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Her Website: https://tanitamaddox.com/ 📖 Her Book: https://www.ivpress.com/what-gen-z-really-wants-to-know-about-god 📱 Instagram & FB: @drtanitamaddox 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Mike Orr Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/ Supporting Sponsors: Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History Available for Pre-order now! Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer SEO / Keywords Tanita Tualla Maddox, Gen Z faith, What Gen Z Really Wants to Know About God, Young Life, generational ministry, youth ministry strategy, cultural apologetics, post-Christian culture, evangelism training, Gen Z and church, belonging and acceptance, discipling teenagers, low trust culture, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.

What happens when pastors care for everyone else—but neglect their own soul? In this episode, Loren talks with Bill and Kristi Gaultiere, founders of Soul Shepherding and co-authors of Deeply Loved: Receiving and Reflecting God’s Great Empathy for You. Together, they explore why emotional health is not optional for Christian leaders—and why empathy begins with receiving God’s love, not just offering it to others. Drawing from decades of experience in psychology, spiritual direction, and ministry leadership, the Gaultieres unpack the difference between empathy and indulgence, how unaddressed shame leads to burnout, and why pastors must have a safe place to be listened to and prayed for. They also discuss: Why emotions are gifts—but terrible masters The danger of processing unresolved wounds from the platform Burnout warning signs every pastor should recognize Compassion fatigue and isolation in ministry Why leaders must receive pastoral care, not just provide it This conversation is a candid and practical guide for church leaders who want their ministry to flow from healing and authenticity rather than exhaustion and performance. Bill is a psychologist (PhD) and ordained pastor and Kristi is a licensed professional counselor (PsyD). Together they lead Soul Shepherding, which is a nonprofit ministry to help pastors, leaders, churches, and others to go deeper with Jesus in emotional health and loving leadership. They lead immersive retreats that integrate Jesus-centered psychology and spiritual formation. Participants have the option to earn a Certificate in Spiritual Direction to improve their relationship skills and earn side income as a spiritual director or coach. They are authors of a number of soul care books, including Journey of the Soul, which was #1 on Amazon in Christian Counseling, and Healthy Feelings, Thriving Faith. Their newest book is Deeply Loved: Receiving and Reflecting God’s Great Empathy for You. Bill and Kristi have provided over 100,000 hours helping clients in therapy or spiritual direction. They were also personally mentored by Dallas and Jane Willard for many years. They have developed a unique approach to spiritual direction that is informed by their Jesus-centered psychology. Their two-year Certificate in Spiritual Direction training program is a hybrid of in person retreats and online training (or it can be completed 100% online) and currently has over 150 students participating. Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Their Website: www.soulshepherding.org 🌐 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/billgaultiere 📱 Instagram & FB: @soulshepherding 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Chuck DeGroat 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Josh Packard 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Tara Beth Leach Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/ Supporting Sponsors: Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History Available for Pre-order now! Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer SEO / Keywords Bill Gaultiere, Kristi Gaultiere, Soul Shepherding, Deeply Loved book, empathy in ministry, pastoral burnout, emotional health for pastors, compassion fatigue, spiritual direction training, church leadership formation, sustainable ministry, shame and leadership, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.

Why should we still be planting churches—and what should church planting look like in a rapidly changing world? In this episode, Loren is joined by Len Tang, Director of the Church Planting Initiative at Fuller Seminary, for a wide-ranging conversation about mission, formation, and the future of church planting. Drawing on his experience planting churches and training planters across diverse contexts, Len reframes church planting as a normal part of the church’s life cycle—one that includes birth, growth, reproduction, and sometimes faithful endings. The conversation explores why growth alone is an inadequate metric, how global migration is reshaping mission fields, and why new expressions of church must be deeply contextual, diverse, and disciple-centered. Loren and Len also discuss the emotional and spiritual realities of church planting: grief, resilience, failure, and the importance of practices like Sabbath, lament, and community support. Rather than treating church planting as a silver bullet, the episode makes the case for forming leaders with character, humility, and a deep grounding in the way of Jesus. This is a thoughtful conversation for pastors, planters, denominational leaders, and anyone discerning how the church can participate faithfully in God’s mission today. Topics Include Why church planting is a normal—and finite—part of church life Growth, reproduction, and the reality of church endings Global migration and new mission fields close to home Moving beyond one-size-fits-all planting models Bivocational ministry, social entrepreneurship, and sustainability Character over charisma in church planting leadership Grief, failure, and resilience in ministry Discipleship as the true measure of fruitfulness Len Tang is the Director of the Church Planting Initiative at Fuller Seminary, and has planted two churches: Cedar Creek Church in Sherwood, Oregon, and Missio Community Church in Pasadena, CA. He received a B.S. in Electrical Engineering and Computer Science from UC Berkeley and an MDiv from Fuller Seminary. He is married to Amy and they have three young adult boys, a cat, and an electric motorcycle. Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Fuller Website: churchplanting.fuller.edu 🌐 Website: Faithful Resistance.com 📱 Len's Instagram & FB: @len.tang 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Tim Morey 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Nick Warnes 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Dwight Zscheile Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/ Supporting Sponsors: Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History Available for Pre-order now! Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer SEO / Keywords Len Tang, church planting, Fuller Seminary church planting initiative, missional church, discipleship and mission, global migration and church, bivocational ministry, church growth vs faithfulness, church planter formation, character over charisma, failure in ministry, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.

What if the future of the church isn’t found in choosing between old and new—but in learning how both can flourish together? In this episode, Loren is joined by Dwight Zscheile and Blair Pogue for a wide-ranging conversation about their book, Embracing the Mixed Ecology, and what it means to form Christian communities in a changing world. Drawing on their experience in congregational leadership, theological education, and diocesan innovation, Dwight and Blair make the case for a mixed ecology of church—where inherited congregations, new communities, fresh expressions, digital ministry, and lay-led initiatives work together to embody the gospel. Rather than dismissing institutions or chasing quick fixes, the conversation emphasizes discipleship, listening to neighbors, and adapting church forms without abandoning the substance of the faith. The episode also explores why activism alone cannot sustain Christian identity, how polarization distorts formation, and why the church must recover practices that shape people into a distinct way of life centered on Jesus. Topics Include What a “mixed ecology” of church actually means Why inherited churches still matter—and where they fall short Fresh expressions, microchurches, and lay-led ministry Discipleship vs. political or cultural substitutes for faith Listening as the starting point for mission Digital ministry as doorway, not replacement When and how churches may need to end faithfully The Rev. Dwight Zscheile, Ph.D. is professor of congregational mission and leadership at Luther Seminary in St. Paul, Minnesota. He is author of Embracing the Mixed Ecology: Inherited and New Forms of Christian Community Flourishing Together (with Blair Pogue, Seabury Books 2025), Leading Faithful Innovation: Following God into a Hopeful Future (with Michael Binder and Tessa Pinkstaff, Fortress, 2023), Participating in God’s Mission: A Theological Missiology for the Church in America (with Craig Van Gelder, Eerdmans, 2018), The Agile Church: Spirit-Led Innovation in an Uncertain Age (Morehouse Publishing, 2014), People of the Way: Renewing Episcopal Identity (Morehouse Publishing, 2012) and The Missional Church in Perspective: Mapping Trends and Shaping the Conversation (with Craig Van Gelder, Baker Academic 2011), editor of Cultivating Sent Communities: Missional Spiritual Formation (Eerdmans, 2012) and co-editor (with Ed Olsworth-Peter) of The Starter’s Way: Leading New Contextual Christian Communities (Church Publishing, 2025). A graduate of Stanford University (BA), Yale University (MDiv) and Luther Seminary (PhD, Congregational Mission and Leadership), he has served congregations in Minnesota and Virginia. Dwight’s experience growing up in a secular home in California has shaped his commitment to helping the church cultivate Christian community with neighbors in today’s changing world. The Rev. Canon Blair Pogue is the Canon for Innovation for the Episcopal Church in Minnesota. In that capacity she helps congregations all over the state go deeper in their practice of the Christian faith and rethink how they form disciples and engage the communities surrounding their church. She also runs learning communities for Episcopalians wanting to learn how to form Christian community with neighbors where they live, work, and play. Before joining Bishop Craig Loya’s staff she was the rector of St. Matthew’s Episcopal Church in St. Paul for 16 ½ years, and before that she served two churches in the Diocese of Virginia, with a special focus on Christian formation. She is a graduate of Luther Seminary (D.Min in Congregational Mission and Leadership), Yale Divinity School (M.Div), and Whitman College (B.A.). Mentioned Resources: 📖 Their Book: Embracing the Mixed Ecology 🌐 Dwight's Website: https://www.dwightzscheile.com/ 📧 Blair's Email: [email protected] 🎧 Episodes Referenced: William Harrison Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/ Supporting Sponsors: Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer SEO / Keywords Dwight Zscheile, Blair Pogue, Embracing the Mixed Ecology, mixed ecology church, fresh expressions, inherited church, church innovation, post-Christian ministry, discipleship formation, lay-led ministry, digital church, future of the church, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.

What does it mean to remain faithful to a calling when the church itself says no? In this episode, Martha Tatarnic is joined by Rose Hudson‑Wilkin, Bishop of Dover, for a wide-ranging conversation rooted in her memoir, The Girl from Montego Bay. Drawing on her journey from a childhood in Jamaica to episcopal leadership in the Church of England, Bishop Rose reflects on poverty, belonging, the discovery of God’s love, and the clarity of call that sustained her through repeated rejection. She speaks candidly about racism in the church, the pressure of being “the first,” and the cost of leadership when institutions lag behind the Spirit. The conversation also explores motherhood and ministry, Scripture as a lived practice, faith in public life, and what Bishop Rose believes the church most urgently needs now: confident Christians who live their faith beyond the church door. This episode offers pastoral wisdom and spiritual encouragement for anyone discerning vocation, navigating institutional resistance, or seeking a faith marked by courage, joy, and love. Topics Include Discerning a call without visible role models Growing up poor without growing up diminished Scripture as a source of belonging and confidence Racism, representation, and leadership pressure Motherhood and ministry as shared vocation Why the church needs confident Christians now Faith lived publicly, not defensively The Rt Revd Rose Hudson-Wilkin, CD, MBE was born and raised in Jamaica before coming to the UK to study. Ordained to the priesthood in 1994, in 2007 she was appointed as a Chaplain to Her Late Majesty the Queen and in 2010, became the first female appointed to the position of the 79th Chaplain to the Speaker of the House of Commons. In November 2019 she was consecrated as a Bishop in the Church of England and installed in Canterbury Cathedral. In May 2023, Bishop Rose was one of three female bishops to make history by playing a part in the coronation of King Charles lll. Her autobiography, ‘The Girl From Montego Bay’ was published in January 2025. Bishop Rose is in wide demand as a preacher and speaker undertaking engagements both nationally and internationally, as well as making regular appearances in the media. Mentioned Resources: 📖 Her Book: The Girl from Montego Bay 🌐 Facebook: Bishop of Dover 🎧 Audiobook: Listen for Free Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/ Supporting Sponsors: Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer SEO / Keywords Rose Hudson-Wilkin, Bishop of Dover, Bishop in Canterbury, The Girl from Montego Bay, women in ministry, Black church leadership, calling and vocation, racism in the church, Church of England, confident Christians, faith and public life, memoir theology, Future Christian Podcast, Martha Tatarnic

What does it mean to lead faithfully when change is unavoidable—and grief is real? In this episode, Loren is joined by Rev. Dr. Josh Hayden for a deeply honest conversation about remissioning churches and navigating loss. Drawing from his work with congregations across denominations—and from his own experience of profound personal grief—Josh reflects on what it means to embrace change that is rooted in love, sacrifice, and hope. Rather than treating renewal as a technical fix, the conversation explores remissioning as a discipleship-centered process that requires dying to old versions of ourselves so new life can emerge. Together, Loren and Josh wrestle with fear, resistance to change, the pace of transformation, and why churches often avoid the very practices that form people to live faithfully through loss. Josh Hayden is the cofounder and copresident of `Iwa Collaborative, which helps leaders fly high and and live low as they lead through change processes in their community. He runs remissioning trainings through `Iwa Collaborative across various denominational, non-denominational, and global networks. Hayden is the senior pastor at First Baptist Church in Ashland, Virginia. He has worked and led in nonprofit organizations, church plants, and established churches. He has a doctorate in leadership and organizational change from Duke Divinity School and is the author of Sacred Hope. He serves on the boards of numerous nonprofits, and he and his family live near Richmond, Virginia. Mentioned Resources: 📖 His Book: Remissioning Church 🌐 Website: `Iwa Collaborative 🎧 Episode Referenced: Jack Shitama 🎧 Episode Referenced: Angela Gorrell 🎧 Episode Referenced: Andrew Root Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/ Supporting Sponsors: Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer SEO / Keywords Josh Hayden, remissioning churches, church renewal, church change, leading through grief, discipleship and change, pastoral leadership, Edwin Friedman, family systems theory, cross before resurrection, church revitalization vs remissioning, grief and faith, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.

What does it mean to worship faithfully in a digital age when church participation is no longer limited to a physical room? In this episode, Loren is joined by Michael Huerter to talk about hybrid church, online worship, and how technology is reshaping participation in Christian life. Drawing from Michael’s experience in worship leadership and digital ministry, the conversation explores how the pandemic accelerated changes already underway and why worship has always involved mediation and technology. Loren and Michael discuss common assumptions about online participation, the pressure placed on worship leaders to produce spiritual experiences, and how hybrid models can expand access without reducing worship to consumption. Rather than treating digital worship as a temporary solution or a threat to embodiment, the episode examines how churches can think more carefully about participation, formation, and accessibility in a hybrid context. Topics include: What “hybrid church” actually means Why worship has always been mediated Assumptions about online participation Pressure on worship leaders to perform Hybrid worship and accessibility This episode is a practical conversation for pastors, worship leaders, and church leaders navigating worship in a digital and hybrid age. Michael Huerter (PhD, Baylor University) is a pastor at Holmeswood Baptist Church in Kansas City, Missouri, where he leads worship and works to build community and connection. As a lifelong church musician and digital native, he is interested in engaging with and contributing to scholarship that bridges the gap between research and practical ministry. Mentioned Resources: 📖 His Book: The Hybrid Congregation 🎧 Episode Referenced: DOC Roundtable 🎧 Episode Referenced: Andrew Draper 🎧 Episode Referenced: David Taylor 🎧 Episode Referenced: The Pressure to Perform Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/ Supporting Sponsors: Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer SEO / Keywords Hybrid church, hybrid worship, online worship, digital church, worship technology, mediated worship, worship leadership, participation in worship, embodiment and accessibility, church after COVID, future of worship, Michael Huerter, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.

What does it mean for a church to thrive when membership is declining, resources feel scarce, and the future is uncertain? In this episode, Loren is joined by Kory Wilcoxson and Erin Cash to talk about their book, Thriving Church: What We Can Learn from Faithful Congregations, and the real-world practices of congregations navigating change with courage and clarity. Drawing from years of congregational research and ministry experience, the conversation explores how churches can remain faithful to their calling without being governed by fear, metrics, or nostalgia. Kory and Erin reflect on the importance of grounding ministry in Scripture, revisiting mission and vision regularly, and honoring the past without being constrained by it. Rather than equating thriving with growth, the episode makes a case for faithfulness, imagination, and adaptability—especially in mainline Protestant contexts where decline is often assumed to be the whole story. Topics include: Why thriving is not the same as numerical growth How fear distorts mission—and how clarity restores it What it looks like for a church to be both “dying” and thriving Honoring history without letting it become a barrier to change Why Scripture still matters deeply for faithful congregations This episode is a grounded, hopeful conversation for pastors and church leaders discerning how to lead well in seasons of transition. Rev. Dr. Kory Wilcoxson has served as the Senior Pastor of Crestwood Christian Church in Lexington, Ky., since 2009. Prior to moving to Lexington, he served for twelve years as a pastor in the Chicago and Indianapolis areas. Wilcoxson holds degrees from Indiana University ((BA in Speech Communication), Ohio University (MA in Interpersonal Communication), Christian Theological Seminary (Master of Divinity), and Lexington Theological Seminary (Doctor of Divinity). Wilcoxson has served in a number of leadership positions within the Kentucky Region and Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) denomination, including moderator of the Kentucky Regional Board, chair of the Board of Directors for the Council on Christian Unity (now the Christian Unity and Interfaith Ministry), and member of the Board of Directors for Disciples Home Missions. Wilcoxson is also the executive director of Compassionate Lexington, an organization which seeks to promote the core value of compassion through concrete action. Wilcoxson has two adult daughters: Sydney and Molly. He enjoys reading, running, and rooting on his beloved Cincinnati Reds. Erin Cash is the Project Director for the Thriving Congregations Project at Lexington Theological Seminary. Prior to this role, Erin served as Director of Admissions at LTS for over 8 years. She is a graduate of Greenville University in Greenville, IL, Candler School of Theology at Emory University in Atlanta, GA, and Lexington Theological Seminary in Lexington, KY. Ordained in 2006, Erin enjoys the opportunities she has to serve in pulpit supply, guest lectures, and as a lay leader in her own congregation. Erin has served as Moderator for the Christian Church In Kentucky, as co-chair of the Local Arrangements team for Regional Assembly, and as co-chair for the Local Arrangements Team of the General Assembly. She also serves as Kentucky’s representative to the General Board, chairing the General Assembly Planning Committee there. Erin is deeply passionate about the work of the local and the Regional church. She is co-author of the book Thriving Church: What You Can Learn from Faithful Congregations now available from Chalice Press. Erin is part of a clergy couple. Her husband, Chris, is the Senior Pastor at FCC Georgetown, having formerly served North Middletown Christian Church and Oxford Christian Church. She is mom to Ella, who is a Junior at Murray State University. In her free time, Erin enjoys baking, hiking, exploring the National Parks, baseball games, and any experience that involves a lake, pool, or the ocean. Mentioned Resources: 📖 Their Book: Thriving Church 🎧 Episode Referenced: DOC Roundtable 🎧 Episode Referenced: Dawn Weaks 🎧 Episode Referenced: Chad Brooks Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/ Supporting Sponsors: Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer SEO / Keywords Kory Wilcoxson, Erin Cash, Thriving Church book, Thriving Congregations, mainline Protestant churches, church decline, faithful congregations, mission and vision, church leadership, pastoral leadership, Disciples of Christ, Lexington Theological Seminary, fear vs mission, Christian formation, Future Christian Pod

In this year-end episode, Loren Richmond Jr. and Martha Tatarnic reflect on leadership, vulnerability, and the pressures pastors are carrying into the new year. They discuss how leaders navigate vulnerability in public roles, including the challenge of knowing what to share, what to hold privately, and how unresolved pain can unintentionally shape preaching and leadership. The conversation addresses the tension between honesty and responsibility, especially when leaders are still processing their own questions or struggles. Loren and Martha also talk about spiritual practices that have become increasingly important to them, particularly shared prayer and the Daily Office as grounding rhythms amid institutional anxiety and uncertainty. They reflect on how decline, fatigue, and pressure to perform can distort leadership, and why steadiness and formation matter when outcomes are unclear. Topics include: Vulnerability and disclosure in pastoral leadership The difference between honesty and oversharing Prayer and the Daily Office as stabilizing practices Institutional anxiety and leadership pressure Leading faithfully without clear outcomes 👉 Subscribe to the Future Christian Podcast for ongoing conversations about leadership, theology, and the future of the church. Mentioned Resources: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/ Supporting Sponsors: Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer SEO / Keywords Loren Richmond Jr., Martha Tatarnic, church leadership, pastoral leadership, vulnerability in leadership, spiritual practices, Daily Office, prayer rhythms, Christian formation, ministry fatigue, church decline, institutional anxiety, faith and leadership, pastors and ministry leaders, Future Christian Podcast

What happens when deconstruction becomes an identity—and woundedness becomes a platform? In this episode of the Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with pastor and writer Tara Beth Leach about the growing online ecosystem where deconstruction is monetized, anger is rewarded, and discipleship is often replaced by endless dismantling. Tara Beth shares why she believes some deconstruction is necessary (especially as faith matures), but warns that deconstruction without reconstruction can become a spiral that forms people in cynicism rather than hope. She describes how churches can respond to cultural crises without becoming “statement churches,” why partisan politics becomes idolatrous, and how practices like liturgy and theology formation can subvert polarization and re-form the Christian imagination. In this conversation, you’ll hear about: Why online deconstruction and local church reality are often very different The danger of mistaking deconstruction for discipleship How algorithms reward outrage and shape Christian formation Why Gen Z is often hungry for embodied, communal faith Liturgy and slow formation as a pastoral response in a divided age The difference between charisma and character—and what churches celebrate Supporting women in ministry: why men often “call out” people who look like them Tara Beth’s “G.R.E.A.T.” morning prayer practice and her book The Great Morning Revolution Tara Beth Leach is a pastor, preacher of the Word, and writer. She speaks widely at conferences, retreats, and universities across the country on Women in Ministry, Church Leadership, and the call to be a Radiant Witness. She is the Senior Pastor at Good Shepherd Church in Naperville, IL and previously served at Christ Church in Oakbrook and as Senior Pastor of First Church of the Nazarene of Pasadena (”PazNaz”) in SoCal. She is a graduate of Olivet Nazarene University and Northern Theological Seminary and has authored three books, including Emboldened and Radiant Church. Tara Beth is the co-founder of Propel Ecclesia and is also the co-host of The Pastors Table podcast. She has two beautiful and rambunctious sons and has been married to the love of her life, Jeff, since 2006. Mentioned Resources: 📱 Find Tara online @TaraBethLeach 🟧 Tara's Substack: https://substack.com/@tarabethleach 🌐 Tara's Website: https://tarabethleach.com/ 🎧 Tara's Podcast: The Pastors Table Podcast 📖 Tara's Book: The Great Morning Revolution Supporting Sponsors: Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share. Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant SEO / Keywords Tara Beth Leach, deconstruction, discipleship, church hurt, Christian formation, Gen Z church, Christian nationalism, partisan politics idolatry, pastoral leadership, preaching in a divided age, liturgy, school of theology, Christian imagination, cancel culture, call-out culture, family systems theory, Jonathan Haidt Anxious Generation, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.

What would happen if churches stopped talking about money with guilt, shame, or fear—and started talking about vision, impact, and opportunity instead? In this episode, Loren interviews Jason Hanselman, Donor Relations Director and longtime pastor, missionary, church planter, and fundraiser. Jason shares why asking people for money is, surprisingly, one of his most deeply spiritual practices, and why churches must rethink the way they talk about giving if they want to cultivate generosity rather than anxiety. Together they explore: Why asking for money can be a spiritual experience for donors and leaders How childhood experiences shape our money scripts Why guilt-based “money talks” cause people to disengage How nonprofits have shifted donor expectations—and why churches must catch up How to make giving personal, relational, and meaningful Why younger adults don’t lack commitment—they lack invitation and clarity How segmenting, storytelling, and vision casting can transform a giving culture Why many churches need to simplify their structures, clarify their mission, and make compelling asks How capital campaigns can tie internal needs to external impact Jason offers honest, practical, field-tested wisdom for pastors, stewardship teams, and anyone responsible for raising money in a ministry context. If you want to cultivate a healthier, more joyful, more spiritually grounded approach to giving, this conversation will give you the tools to start. Jason Hanselman currently serves as a Donor Relations Director with Mission Aviation Fellowship. His ministry experience spans more than 25 years. He has led in a variety of capacities in kingdom-building roles as a pastor, missionary, church planter and fundraiser. Jason was born and raised in Denver Colorado where he met his wife Mary - they’ve been married for 32 years. He holds a Bachelor’s degree in Ministry and a Master of Arts degree in Education. Jason’s goal is to partner with other Kingdom minded individuals and churches to raise enough resources to make it possible for them to fund their vision and increase their impact. Jason enjoys spending time with his family on hikes and in art museums. Jason and Mary raised their three children in Boise, Idaho: Naomi (25), Grace (23) and Solomon (20). When he has extra time, Jason is a portrait artist and an avid sports fan. Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Jason's Website: https://fundyourvision.my.canva.site/ 📧 Jason's Email: [email protected] 🎧 Podcast Episodes Referenced: Sheryl Johnson 🎧 Podcast Episodes Referenced: JJ Peterson 🎧 Podcast Episodes Referenced: Mike Cosper 🎧 Podcast Episodes Referenced: Michelle Van Loon Supporting Sponsors: Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share. Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant SEO / Keywords church fundraising, generosity, stewardship campaign, donor relations, spiritual fundraising, money and faith, church giving, nonprofit fundraising strategies, Mission Aviation Fellowship, fundraising without guilt, money scripts, younger donors church, capital campaign ideas, storytelling for churches, Loren Richmond Jr, Future Christian Podcast

What does youth ministry look like when the world — and young people — are changing faster than ever? In this in-person episode recorded at Broomfield United Methodist Church, host Loren Richmond Jr. sits down with longtime student ministries director Mike Orr to talk about faith formation, Gen Z and Gen Alpha, belonging, spiritual maturity, and what it really means to cultivate community in a post-Christian culture. With warmth, honesty, and decades of ministry experience, Mike reflects on: Highlights from the Conversation His early spiritual experiences and how actual transformation — not willpower — shaped his faith. The surprising power of belonging-first ministry for Gen Z & Gen Alpha. Why emotionally coercive youth ministry of the 90s left deep marks — and how churches can do better. How to hold space for students with radically different political or cultural views. Why youth ministry should never be about indoctrination, but about helping young people own and explore their faith. How to handle deconstruction as a natural part of spiritual growth. The crisis facing young men — and how to model a healthier version of Christian masculinity. Why the future of church isn't about producing spiritual “products,” but creating a context where real faith can flourish. The essential role parents play in forming faith, whether they realize it or not. His hope for Christianity: “Keep adding leaves to the table. There’s room for everyone.” This is a rich, grounded conversation about what actually works in youth ministry today — and what kind of church the next generation is longing for. Mike Orr has been a youth worker since the late 1990's, serving churches in Pennsylvania, Connecticut, California, and Colorado. He earned his MDiv from Fuller Theological Seminary in Pasadena, California. For over 10 years he has been the Director of Student Ministries at Broomfield United Methodist Church, located in the northern suburbs of Denver, CO. He lives with his wife and 3 dogs in Denver, CO. He has written zero books. Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Mike's Church: Broomfield UMC 🎧 Podcast Episodes Referenced: Andrew Root 🎧 Podcast Episodes Referenced: Quiet Revival 🎧 Mike’s Podcast: Tapestry Talk Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. Supporting Sponsors: Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share. Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant Keywords / SEO Tags youth ministry, Gen Z faith, Gen Alpha spirituality, belonging in church, student ministries, Mike Orr Broomfield UMC, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr, deconstruction and faith, progressive youth ministry, family faith formation, modern youth ministry challenges, Charlie Kirk Christianity, masculinity and church, spiritual formation for teens, church and political identity, Christian nationalism youth, Wesleyan sanctification, teen mental health church

How can a historic church navigate a rapidly changing world without losing its soul? In this episode of the Future Christian Podcast, host Martha Tatarnic speaks with Archbishop Shane Parker, the newly elected Primate of the Anglican Church of Canada, about leading through transition, discernment, and hope for the church’s future. Archbishop Parker shares the story of his unexpected election, reflecting on themes of surrender, vocation, and guiding change rather than being changed by circumstance. Together, they explore what it means to lead faithfully in a post-Christian context—one where the church no longer holds cultural prominence but still holds deep spiritual purpose. They discuss: The evolving role of Christianity in Canadian society What it means to be “first among equals” in Anglican leadership The spiritual practice of personal prayer and community intercession Why some leaders are called to stay instead of move on The challenge of guiding change before it overtakes the church How to reimagine church structures for relevance and sustainability The importance of friendship, pastoral care, and gathered community in thriving congregations His hope that the future of Christianity will embody the courage, compassion, and justice of Christ Parker offers both realism and hope: that the Anglican Church can rediscover its vitality by focusing on community, worship, and service — not nostalgia or institutional weight. Archbishop Shane Parker was elected the 15th Primate of the Anglican Church of Canada on June 26, 2025, and installed on June 29, 2025, at St. Paul’s Cathedral in London, Ontario. Prior to being elected Primate, he had served as the Bishop of the Anglican Diocese of Ottawa since 2020. Before that, he was dean of the Diocese of Ottawa and rector of Christ Church Cathedral for two decades. Born to Irish parents in Edmonton, Alberta, he grew up in western Canada. He worked as a labourer for several years before embarking on undergraduate and graduate studies in sociology at Carleton University. After working as a professional sociologist, he studied theology at Saint Paul University. He was ordained as a priest in 1987 in the Diocese of Ottawa, later serving as the diocesan archdeacon. Parker has an honorary doctorate from Saint Paul University, where he has served as a part-time professor of pastoral ministry and chairs its Anglican Studies Advisory Committee. A collection of his pastoral essays was published by Novalis in a book called Answering the Big Questions. He is a recipient of the Interfaith Ottawa Award, for devoted service to promoting interfaith dialogue and cooperation. Parker is married to Katherine Shadbolt, a lawyer specializing in family law and mediation. He has three adult children and three grandchildren. He is handy, enjoys physical work and is most comfortable in natural places. Mentioned Resources: 🌐 The Anglican Church of Canada: https://www.anglican.ca/ Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. Supporting Sponsors: Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share. Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

What do you do when life falls apart—and you have no idea what to do next? In this heartfelt episode, Loren Richmond Jr. speaks with Rev. Dr. Angela Williams Gorrell, theologian, researcher, and author of Braving Difficult Decisions: What to Do When You Don’t Know What to Do and Always On: The Gravity of Joy. Drawing from her own experience of profound grief and transformation, Angela shares how surrender, acceptance, and spiritual practices like meditation can open us to God’s presence—even in silence. Together, they explore: The difference between grasping for control and living in surrender How to accept reality as it is without losing hope Why prayer isn’t preparation for action—it is action Learning from feelings as information, not final truth What it means to trust that nothing is wasted in God’s economy How pastors and church leaders can find peace and purpose amid decline or loss Why healing and joy are still possible, even after tragedy Whether you’re navigating personal loss or leading through uncertainty in ministry, this conversation offers honesty, theological depth, and hard-won wisdom for finding grace when life doesn’t go according to plan. Rev. Dr. Angela Williams Gorrell is a speaker, author, and consultant. She has taught at several schools including Yale and Baylor University. Media sources such as the New York Times, NPR, and the Washington Post have highlighted her research. Dr. Angela is the author of always on, The Gravity of Joy, and a new book, Braving Difficult Decisions: What to Do When You Don’t Know What to Do. She’d love to connect with you on Facebook or Instagram @angelagorrell Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Her website: https://www.angelagorrell.com/ 📱 Her socials: @angelagorrell 📖 Her book: Braving Difficult Decisions 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Heather Thompson Day 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Martha Tatarnic Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. Supporting Sponsors: Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share. Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant Keywords / SEO Tags Angela Williams Gorrell, Braving Difficult Decisions, Always On The Gravity of Joy, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr., Christian leadership, spiritual direction, surrender to God, prayer and healing, faith through suffering, meditation and Christian spirituality, grief and resilience, trauma and faith, pastoral care, nothing wasted in God’s economy, mainline church leadership, church decline and hope, progressive Christian spirituality

What does it mean to be the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) in a world where shared language about faith, salvation, and community seems to be slipping away? In this roundtable episode of the Future Christian Podcast, host Martha Tatarnic is joined by Loren Richmond Jr., Dennis Sanders, and David Emery for a deep conversation on the past, present, and future of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ). Together they wrestle with what “No Creed but Christ” means today—and how this historic movement can renew its theological identity in a rapidly changing culture. This conversation explores: Why “No creed but Christ” was once revolutionary—and what it might mean now How Disciples’ emphasis on inclusion and open communion can recover deeper theological grounding The tension between progressive activism and theological clarity The role of preaching, formation, and leadership in shaping discipleship Why local churches—and not denominational structures—are key to renewal Signs of hope and new life emerging in Disciples congregations across North America If you’ve ever wondered how denominations can stay rooted in the Gospel while adapting to modern realities, this episode offers an honest, hopeful look at faithful innovation and renewal in the mainline church. Dennis Sanders is an ordained Disciples of Christ minister and lead pastor of First Christian Church in St. Paul, Minnesota. A native of Flint, Michigan and big fan of the Detroit Tigers and Lions, Dennis is also a communications specialist for a Lutheran congregation in the Twin Cities and is the host of the Church and Main podcast, which tries to live out Karl Barth’s quote of reading the Bible and the newspaper and interpreting the news through the Bible. Dennis lives in Minneapolis with his husband Daniel and their cats. David Emery is the Lead Pastor of Harvard Avenue Christian Church in Tulsa, OK. David is a passionate preacher, compassionate pastor, and adept leader whose understanding of the Gospel and vision for the church help our congregation fulfill our mission to live and love like Jesus. David has a reputation for growing churches, reaching new people, and transforming lives in every church he has served throughout his ministry, which includes congregations in Arkansas, Texas, and Kentucky. He holds a Master’s of Divinity from Vanderbilt. If you were to ask David what his favorite scripture passage is, he would tell you: “Whatever I’m preaching on this week!” An avid runner and multiple-marathoner, when David isn’t on the trail or in the pulpit, he enjoys spending time with his wife, Teresa, and their children and grandchildren. Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Dennis' Church: https://fccsaintpaul.org/ 🌐 David's Church: https://hacctulsa.org/ 📖 Book Referenced: Thriving Church 🎧 Dennis Sanders Podcast: Church and Main Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. Supporting Sponsors: Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share. Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

What happens when the church you’ve loved becomes too small for the faith you’ve grown into? Former Anglican priest Brian E. Pearson joins host Martha Tatarnic on the Future Christian Podcast to discuss his book Talking to the Trees: A Journey Into Soul and his evolving spirituality after nearly forty years in ordained ministry. In this deeply honest conversation, Brian reflects on his transition from parish life to life on the edges—where faith, doubt, nature, and imagination meet. Together, he and Martha explore what it means to live faith large rather than small, to follow curiosity and courage beyond institutional boundaries, and to discover the sacred in unexpected places. They talk about: Why the edges of faith are often where renewal begins The cost and gift of leaving the institutional church How nature, ritual, and imagination can nurture a living spirituality Storytelling as a pathway to truth and healing Courage, curiosity, and the call to live with openness instead of fear Pearson’s journey invites pastors, seekers, and skeptics alike to consider: What if leaving the church isn’t an ending, but another way of following the Spirit into new life? Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Website: https://www.brianepearson.ca/ 📖 His Book: Talking to Trees 🎧 His Podcast: The Mystic Cave Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. Supporting Sponsors: Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share. Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

What does it look like for a church’s budget, bylaws, and building to reflect the values of justice and faith? In this episode of the Future Christian Podcast, host Loren Richmond Jr. speaks with Rev. Dr. Sheryl Johnson, theologian, ethicist, and author of Serving Money, Serving God: Aligning Radical Justice, Christian Practice, and Church Life (Fortress Press, 2023). Together they explore how churches can move beyond good intentions to embody justice through everyday practices—especially around finance, fundraising, stewardship, and administration. They discuss: Why church administration is theological, not just logistical How job postings and pay scales reveal a congregation’s real values The pitfalls of donor-centered fundraising and better alternatives Honest communication about money, failure, and hope How churches can make ethical decisions about property and buildings What it means to see the local church as a foretaste of God’s reign Sheryl challenges pastors and leaders to re-imagine what “faithful stewardship” truly means in today’s world—where economic justice, transparency, and collaboration are essential for credible ministry. Sheryl Johnson (she/her) is a settler on Ohlone land and was born in Treaty 1 Territory in what is colonially known as Winnipeg, Canada. She began teaching at Pacific Lutheran Theological Seminary in the fall of 2020, as she was defending her PhD in Theology and Ethics at Graduate Theological Union. Her dissertation focused on the intersections of social justice (racial, economic, gender, etc) and ecclesial practices (specifically stewardship, finance, and polity). A book based on her dissertation, Serving Money, Serving God: Aligning Radical Justice, Christian Practice, and Church Life, was published by Fortress Press in 2023. Sheryl is an ordained minister in the United Church of Canada, with dual standing in the United Church of Christ. Sheryl has served several congregations, campus ministries, ecumenical advocacy organizations (especially KAIROS: Canadian Ecumenical Justice Initiatives and the Student Christian Movement/World Student Christian Federation), and global church partners (specifically the National Council of Churches of the Philippines and People's Action Forum in Zambia), in addition to her academic work. She completed her M.Div and MPS degrees at Emmanuel College, University of Toronto and also completed a Certificate of Specialization in Theology and Ecology at the University of St. Michael's College during her theological studies. Sheryl is passionate about embodied, participatory, and critical pedagogies and supporting students to make connections between justice commitments and vocational practices. Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Website: https://www.sheryljohnsonphd.com/ 📖 Her Book: https://www.fortresspress.com/store/product/9781506482965/Serving-Money-Serving-God 📖 Her Next Book: The Business of God 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Michelle Van Loon Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. Supporting Sponsors: Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share. Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

What’s worth keeping—and what needs to go—when it comes to modern evangelicalism? In this episode of the Future Christian Podcast, host Loren Richmond Jr. talks with author Michelle Van Loon, whose new book Downsizing: Letting Go of Evangelicalism’s Non-Essentials explores the story of evangelical faith from its post–World War II roots to today’s crisis of credibility. Drawing from her own journey—from a secular Jewish upbringing to decades inside evangelical churches—Van Loon offers an unflinching yet hopeful look at the movement’s excesses, blind spots, and spiritual gifts worth preserving. Together, Loren and Michelle unpack: The distinction between revival and revivalism—and why chasing emotional “mountaintop” moments misses the point. The long shadow of leaders like James Dobson and Bill Gothard, and how their influence shaped evangelical culture. The roots of authoritarianism and control in religious systems—and what healthy spiritual authority looks like. Why humility and listening matter more than programs or platforms. What it means to “downsize” faith while still holding on to Jesus. Van Loon reminds listeners that faith is not about clinging to institutions but about rediscovering the way of Christ—one marked by honesty, empathy, and hope. 👉 Subscribe to the Future Christian Podcast for more honest conversations about leadership, theology, and the future of the church. Michelle Van Loon’s writing is shaped by her deeply rooted faith in Christ, secular Jewish heritage, spiritual hunger, and storyteller’s sensibilities. She has been a regular contributor to Christianity Today magazine, and has articles at a number of other digital sites.. Her eight books include her newest, Downsizing: Letting Go of Evangelicalism's Nonessentials. You can learn more about her work at her website, michellevanloon.com or connect with her at her little corner of Substack, which is called Transforming Words. Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Website: michellevanloon.com 📖 Her Book:: https://www.eerdmans.com/9780802884626/downsizing/ 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Joelle Kidd 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Robert Schuller 🎧 Episodes Referenced: J. Michael Jordan 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Mike Cosper Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. Supporting Sponsors: Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share. Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

What unique challenges do women face in ministry leadership—and what gives them hope for the future of the church? In this special roundtable episode of the Future Christian Podcast, host Loren Richmond Jr. welcomes a panel of seasoned clergy leaders: Rev. Tabatha Johnson (Disciples of Christ), The Venerable Sheila Van Zandwyck (Anglican), Rev. Canon Katherine Morgan (Anglican), and Rev. Canon Martha Tatarnic (Anglican and Future Christian co-host). Together, they share candid stories about their call to ministry, navigating representation and authority, the sacrifices women often make that men may not, and how mentors and allies have helped along the way. From maternity leave struggles to stereotypes about “what a minister should look like,” these leaders open up about both progress and persistent challenges for women in the church today. Listeners will gain insights into: How women discern and embrace a call to ordained ministry. The “stained glass ceiling” and ongoing equity issues in church leadership. The importance of mentors, representation, and visible role models. How congregations respond differently to women clergy across traditions. What gives hope for the next generation of women entering ministry. Whether you’re a pastor, church leader, or layperson passionate about equality in the church, this episode offers wisdom, encouragement, and a vision for a more inclusive future. Rev. Tabatha D. Johnson is a pastor in the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ). She has served as a pastor and chaplain for over twenty years. She graduated from the University of Missouri-Kansas City and Central Baptist Theological Seminary and is co-editor and contributor to Still A Mother: Journeys Through Perinatal Bereavement (Judson Press.) a 2017 Gold Medal Winner in the Illumination Book Awards. She is currently the Senior Pastor at Shawnee Community Christian Church where she joyfully serves alongside people who love Jesus and one another. Tabatha’s greatest love, besides her family and her church, are coffee and starting home improvement projects in her home that someday, hopefully, she will finish. Tabatha lives with her spouse, Cory, and their children in the Kansas City Metro. The Venerable Sheila Van Zandwyk is Archdeacon of Lincoln Deanery and Rector of Church of the Transfiguration. She was born and raised in St. Catharines and was raised in the Christian Reformed Church. She began attending an Anglican Church in my twenties. Until starting seminary at 40, Van Zandwyk worked in retail, for a number of years as the Manager of a Shoppers Drug Mart. Ordained for 17 years, Van Zandwyk has worked in churches in Oakville, Hamilton and now St. Catharines, being at Transfiguration for 6 years now. The Reverend Canon Katherine Morgan graduated with a Master of Divinity from Trinity College, University of Toronto. Morgan is ordained in the Diocese of Niagara where she had the privilege of serving in rural, small town and city parishes for 29 years. Currently Morgan is the rector of Church of the Resurrection in Hamilton. In her free time, she loves to sing, enjoy puzzles, and is the proud parent of an adult son. Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Website: https://shawneecommunity.org/ 🌐 Website: 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Margo Guernsey Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. Supporting Sponsors: Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share. Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

What does ministry look like beyond the walls of traditional institutions? In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with Father Cathie Caimano—Episcopal priest, writer, coach, and founder of Free Range Priest. For nearly a decade, Caimano has been helping churches and leaders reimagine ministry for the 21st century, blending ancient practices with agile, entrepreneurial models. Caimano shares her own journey from traditional parish priest to “free range” ministry, reflecting on what she learned serving small churches, working alongside Bishop Michael Curry, and navigating the disruption of the COVID era. She makes a bold case for new containers of church—lean, sustainable, and faithful—while still deeply rooted in the gospel. Caimano insists that the church is not dying—the institution is. And in that collapse lies the opportunity to reimagine ministry with freedom, joy, and faithfulness. Key points from the conversation: How spiritual practices can function like a “gym for your soul” Why institutions resist technology and why that must change The difference between innovation within old systems and creating new ones Why small congregations can thrive by embracing sustainability, not size How the church can learn from entrepreneurship, social enterprise, and start-up culture Cathie Caimano, ʻFr. Cathie’, and is an Episcopal priest, ordained for 25 years. Since 2016, She's been a Free Range Priest - her own ministry/business with a mission to help reimagine ministry in the 21st century. She serves a small congregation in a 'cage free' way, and she writes, coaches, teaches and consults about practical ways of being and doing church in sustainable, faithful, joyful ways. She lives near Charlotte, NC with her wonderful husband and adorable Great Dane. When she's not thinking about God and church, you can find her taking photos of the sunrise, or out running somewhere! Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Website: https://trexo.church/p/start-here 🌐 Website: https://www.freerangepriest.org/about 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Chad Brooks 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Steve Cuss 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Matt Syrdal 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Bethany Peerbolte Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. Supporting Sponsors: Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share. Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

What does leadership look like when the church is shrinking? In this episode, Martha Tatarnic talks with Rev. Dr. Bill Harrison, president of Lutheran Theological Seminary in Saskatoon and author of Leadership in a Shrinking Church. Harrison shares candid insights from his own journey—from growing up in a fundamentalist tradition to leading in ecumenical and academic contexts. He reflects on why complexity is not something to fear, why “do less with less” might be the most faithful strategy today, and how congregations can reclaim a gospel vision rooted in transformation rather than numbers. Realistic and hopeful, this episode offers practical tools for pastors, leaders, and congregations navigating decline as Harrison reminds that God’s transformation is complex, but the good news is alive and present—even in a shrinking church. In this conversation you’ll hear: Why numerical growth has become an idol in many churches The crushing accumulation of roles and expectations placed on clergy Four dimensions of transformation—intellectual, psychic, moral, and religious—that shape Christian life Why congregations need to clarify identity, mission, and resources instead of trying to be “all things to all people” How gospel vision statements can help churches focus on what really matters The Rev. Dr. William (Bill) Harrison is president of Lutheran Theological Seminary, Saskatoon, and former chair of the Saskatoon Theological Union Common Faculty. Bill teaches systematic and historical theology, and ethics. In addition to his PhD in systematic theology and church history from Boston College, Bill has degrees in English literature (M.A.), theology (B.Th.), and political science (B.A. Hons). Bill is the author of Leadership in a Shrinking Church: Finding New Vision in Unlikely Places; Frequently Asked Questions in Christian Theology; and In Praise of Mixed Religions: The Syncretism Solution in a Multifaith World. Everywhere he goes, Bill takes music with him, listening to a broad variety. At home, he spends as much time as possible walking trails or out in his kayak. Mentioned Resources: 📖 Get his Book: Leadership in a Shrinking Church 📱 Follow: https://www.facebook.com/bill.harrison.359128 🌐 Website: www.lutherantheological.ca 🌐 Website: https://www.facebook.com/LTSSaskatoon/ 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Robert Schuller episode Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. Supporting Sponsors: Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share. Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

What does it really mean for a church to be “healthy”? In this episode, Loren sits down with Chad Brooks—United Methodist congregational vitality strategist and author of Is My Church Healthy? Drawing on his years of experience as a church planter, pastor, and denominational leader, Brooks challenges common assumptions about growth and health. He unpacks why stability must come before vitality, how to measure what truly matters, and why small congregations often carry unique strengths that larger ones overlook. With both encouragement and practical tools, Brooks equips pastors, leaders, and laypeople to discern their next faithful step. Whether you lead a large church or a normal-sized one, this conversation will help you reimagine what vitality looks like in today’s context. Key Points: Why size doesn’t determine health—and how small churches can thrive The four stages of congregational life: unstable, stable, vital, and sustainable How to right-size ministries instead of copying “the big church down the street” Why tracking data isn’t impersonal but essential to caring for people The difference between mercy, justice, mission, and evangelism—and why churches must reclaim their distinct call How COVID acted as a “reset button” for many congregations Chad Brooks is an ordained elder in the United Methodist Church and currently serves on the staff of The Louisiana Annual Conference of the United Methodist Church as the Congregational Vitality Strategist. He lives in central Louisiana with his wife of 20 years Meredith. Chad is a graduate of Louisiana Tech University and Asbury Theological Seminary. Chad grew up in the church as the son of an SBC Pastor and has spent his career working in all aspects of church, from Technical Production Director of churches and a major Seminary, to a pastor of established churches and church plants. He has stewarded the Productive Pastor Community for 20 years and it equally passionate about seeing revival as he is about resourcing Pastors in all aspects of healthy ministry. When not reading and thinking about the Church, he enjoys practicing Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and being in the outdoors at his hunting camp. Mentioned Resources: 📖 Get his Book: Is My Church Healthy? 🌐 Louisiana Conference: https://www.la-umc.org/conferencestaff 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Dennis Sanders 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Drew Crowson Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share. Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

How do pastors and church leaders navigate ministry when the battles feel relentless? In this episode, Loren talks with Bishop Jeffrey V. Dudley Sr.—retired Air Force chaplain, pastor, and leadership coach. Drawing from his decades of service in the military and the church, Bishop Dudley shares candid reflections on leadership, spiritual practices, and the weight of ministry. He opens up about personal seasons of opposition, the temptation to over-spiritualize crises, and the vital importance of prayer, boundaries, and honest self-awareness. This conversation is a powerful reminder for pastors, leaders, and anyone in ministry that resilience is possible, that honesty matters, and that our hope remains anchored in Jesus. Listeners will hear: Why “battles are inevitable, and preparation must be intentional” How to discern between authenticity and “bleeding on the people” The danger of over-spiritualizing crises—and how leaders can own responsibility Bishop Dudley’s vulnerable reflections on suicidal ideation and the hope that carried him through Why he insists, “You are not what you feel” Dr. Geoffrey V. Dudley, Sr. is a retired Air Force Chaplain (Lt. Colonel), Bishop, author, and leadership coach. A lifelong minister and visionary leader, he holds a PhD in Organizational Leadership from Regent University, a Doctor of Ministry from Virginia Union University, a Master of Divinity from Virginia Union, a Master of Human Relations from the University of Oklahoma, and a Bachelor of Arts in Communication, Drama & Speech from UNC Greensboro. He also holds a Post-Master Education Specialist degree from the University of Memphis. Dr. Dudley is the founding pastor of New Life in Christ Church (O'Fallon, IL), one of the fastest-growing churches in the St. Louis metro area, and the CEO of New Life Community Development Corporation, which leads major community initiatives including a $20M affordable housing project. A John Maxwell Associate Trainer and author of six books—including Leading Through Storms—he also mentors leaders through iLeadAcademy.net and Changing Lives Ministries. He and his wife Glenda have two adult children engaged in ministry and nonprofit leadership. Mentioned Resources: 📖 His Book: https://ivpress.com/leading-through-storms 🌐 His church website: https://www.nlicic.org Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share. Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

What does it mean to lead the church toward vitality in a time of disruption, decline, and shifting cultural landscapes? In this episode, Loren sits down with Dr. F. Douglas Powe Jr., President of Phillips Theological Seminary. Recorded live at the General Assembly of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ), this conversation explores how seminaries and congregations alike can foster authentic belonging, support diverse pathways into ministry, and reimagine theological education for the future. Doug reflects on his first six months at Phillips, the seminary’s bold tuition initiative, and the vision behind Bedford House—a new space designed to embody belonging for marginalized and underrepresented communities. He also shares his hopes for how churches can model unity and reconciliation in a divided world. Topics include: Why belonging must come before believing for new generations How Bedford House embodies Phillips Seminary’s commitment to inclusion The challenges and opportunities of rural and small-church ministry Alternative pathways into ministry beyond the traditional M.Div. Why theological education must adapt without losing its core formation The role of social justice engagement in calling new leaders Dr. Powe’s hopes for the church in an age of disruption and division Rev. F. Douglas Powe Jr., PhD is President of Phillips Theological Seminary in Tulsa, Okla., where he leads the seminary in its work toward deep learning, faithful leadership and global impact. An ordained elder in The United Methodist Church, Dr. Powe is a respected scholar, teacher, and author whose work explores congregational vitality, urban ministry, and innovative approaches to evangelism. Before leading Phillips, he served as Director of the Lewis Center for Church Leadership and James C. Logan Professor of Evangelism at Wesley Theological Seminary. His books include Sustaining While Disrupting, The Adept Church, and Transforming Evangelism. A graduate of Ohio Wesleyan University, Emory University’s Candler School of Theology, and Emory’s Graduate Division of Religion, Dr. Powe is widely sought after for his insights on faith, leadership, and the changing ministry environment. Mentioned Resources: 📖 Book: https://www.cokesbury.com/The-Adept-Church?vsl=2487 📖 Book: https://www.fortresspress.com/store/product/9781506479200/Sustaining-While-Disrupting 🌐 Phillps Seminary: https://ptstulsa.edu/ 🎧 Past Episode with Doug Powe: Sustaining While Disrupting 🎧 Past Episode with Doug Powe: The Adept Church Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share. Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

What does it mean to build safer, healthier churches in a world where abuse and misuse of power have left deep scars? In this conversation, Loren talks with Dr. Lisa Compton and Taylor Patterson, co-editors of Skills for Safeguarding: A Guide to Preventing Abuse and Fostering Healing in the Church. Drawing on decades of counseling and trauma work, they explore how churches can recognize unhealthy dynamics, respond with integrity, and create cultures where both leaders and congregants can flourish. This is a vital conversation for pastors, lay leaders, and anyone who cares about the long-term health and witness of the church. Topics include: Why integrity, not charisma, is essential for church leadership The difference between protecting a church’s brand and serving the people of God The “tripod of relational safety”: safe self, safe community, and safe ministry Distinguishing between guilt and shame, and how each shapes spiritual formation Why forgiveness does not always mean reconciliation Practical first steps churches can take toward safeguarding Taylor Patterson is an instructor in the counseling department at Regent University. She worked for several years as a mental health counselor at a nonprofit agency serving survivors of domestic violence, sexual assault, and human trafficking and now sees clients in private practice, specializing in adult with a history of childhood trauma. She served as co-editor for "Safeguarding Skills: A Guide to Preventing Abuse and Fostering Healing in the Church,” a textbook for seminaries, parachurch ministries, and local churches, and has published in peer-reviewed journals. Taylor’s research interests include interpersonal violence, compassion fatigue prevention and treatment, and trauma-informed counselor education and supervision. Dr. Lisa Compton is an Associate Professor and Director of the Ph.D. in Counselor Education program at Regent University. With over 29 years of experience in the mental health field, she is a licensed clinical social worker (LCSW), certified trauma treatment specialist (CTTS), and compassion fatigue educator (CFE). Dr. Compton has been a conference keynote speaker, presented internationally on trauma-related topics, and has been featured on CBN News discussing domestic violence and sexual trauma. She is the co-author of Preparing for Trauma Work in Clinical Mental Health and Safeguarding Skills: A Guide to Preventing Abuse and Fostering Healing in the Church. Her research focuses on secondary trauma and trauma pedagogy with numerous published articles, including "Absorption Vulnerability" in Traumatology (2024). Mentioned Resources: 📖 Their book: https://www.ivpress.com/skills-for-safeguarding 🌐 Lisa's Website: https://drlisacompton.com/ 🎧 Mike Cosper on the Dangers of Ideology in Church 🎧 May Young on Biblical Lament Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share. Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

Recorded live from the 2025 General Assembly of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) in Memphis, TN, Loren is joined once again by pastor and podcaster Dennis Sanders for a candid conversation about the state and future of the denomination. They reflect on what’s changed since past gatherings, the unique role and challenges of General Assembly in a time of declining attendance, and the ongoing tension between institutional loyalty and openness to diverse theological voices. From the missed opportunity of a revival resolution to the practical realities of costs, exhibitor layouts, and programming balance, Loren and Dennis bring both deep care and honest critique. The conversation also moves beyond denominational borders—raising questions relevant to mainline and evangelical contexts alike: How should denominations engage in political advocacy when their cultural influence has waned? What would it take to be truly inclusive of conservative, moderate, and progressive voices? Where might revival come from—and how will we know it when we see it? Dennis Sanders is an ordained Disciples of Christ minister and lead pastor of First Christian Church in St. Paul, Minnesota. A native of Flint, Michigan and big fan of the Detroit Tigers and Lions, Dennis is also a communications specialist for a Lutheran congregation in the Twin Cities and is the host of the Church and Main podcast, which tries to live out Karl Barth’s quote of reading the Bible and the newspaper and interpreting the news through the Bible. Dennis lives in Minneapolis with his husband Daniel and their cats. Mentioned Resources: 🎧 Last GA Episode with Dennis: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-fgenv-1476ff7 📱 Dennis instagram: @adventcelina 📖 Mixed Ecology Book: https://www.churchpublishing.org/embracingthemixedecology 🌐 Ben Crosby's Substack: https://substack.com/@bencrosby 🌐 Jeff Gill's Substack: https://substack.com/@knapsack 🎧 Dennis Sanders: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-q2e35-134587d 🎧 Church and Main Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/church-and-main/id1660817140 Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share. Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

What does it take to start a brand-new church in one of the fastest-growing cities in the U.S.? In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with Drew Crowson, an Episcopal priest in the Diocese of Dallas planting a church in Celina, Texas—a city where 800 new residents arrive every month and there’s never been an Episcopal congregation. Drew shares his journey from growing up Baptist in East Texas, to ministry roles in Germany, the Middle East, and Alabama, to finding a spiritual home in the Anglican tradition. He explains why he believes the parish model is the future of the church, how a preschool can be a vital ministry and funding source, and the discipline it takes to keep showing up—even when no one else does. Whether you’re in church leadership, thinking about starting something new, or just curious about what it takes to plant a church in today’s cultural climate, this conversation is both honest and inspiring. They discuss: Why liturgy and the Book of Common Prayer resonate with non-liturgical Christians How to plant a church in a mainline denomination with little recent church-planting history Balancing entrepreneurial hustle with slow, patient spiritual formation The importance of pastoral boundaries for family health Building a prayer team and cultivating resilience in ministry Drew Crowson is a church planter in the Episcopal Diocese of Dallas. Before stepping into church planting, he served in young adult and youth ministry in diverse contexts—from Dallas to Düsseldorf, Germany, an oil compound in the Middle East, and Auburn, Alabama. Deeply shaped by the early 2000s emergent church movement, his journey ultimately led him deeper into Jesus and into the Anglican tradition. Drew is married to an incredible woman, and together they are raising three young children who daily remind them of their ongoing need for grace. Mentioned Resources: 📱 Celina instagram: @adventcelina 🌐 Drew's Substack: https://substack.com/@andrewcrowson 🌐 WashPark UMC: https://www.washparkumc.org Other Church planting episodes: 🎧 Cameron Trimble: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-8siub-10d0a4d 🎧 Paula Stone Williams: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-pgxda-f59f19 🎧 Tim Morey: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-25zwi-1059d6d 🎧 Nick Warnes: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-ketw5-1172f9e 🎧 Jonah Overton: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-y28bz-13457f4 🎧 Even More: https://www.podbean.com/ep/pb-wzbs7-173f5fc Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share. Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

What happens when Christian faith gets filtered through purity rings, YA fiction, and pop-punk soundtracks? In this episode, co-host Martha Tatarnic welcomes writer and journalist Joelle Kidd to discuss her new book, Jesusland. Joelle shares her experiences growing up in a conservative Christian school and how the teachings she received influenced her understanding of faith, identity, and culture. This candid conversation explores the complexities of navigating a religious upbringing marked by purity culture, shame, and the impact of Christian pop culture on personal and political landscapes. Joelle reflects on the positives and negatives of her faith journey, the importance of self-ownership, and the need for a more inclusive and compassionate Christianity. Whether you were steeped in youth group culture or always felt on the outside looking in, this episode invites reflection on the messages that shaped us, and what kind of faith might lead us forward. Topics Covered: What “Christian pop culture” really means and how it shaped Joelle’s youth The collision of capitalism, conservatism, and evangelical media How shame, purity culture, and literalist theology distort identity and faith The rise of Christian influencers, tradwives, and mega-pastor empires What the church can do differently—especially for young people today Joelle Kidd is a writer, award-winning journalist, and editor who lives in a book-filled basement apartment in Tkaronto/Toronto. Her work has appeared in outlets such as The Walrus, This Magazine, Lit Hub, The Rumpus, and Xtra Magazine. She holds an MFA in creative writing from the University of Guelph. Jesusland is her first book. Mentioned Resources: 📱 Follow https://bsky.app/profile/joellekidd.bsky.social). 🌐 Website: https://joellekidd.com/ 🎧 Mike Cosper: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-2m9ra-176f33e Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share. Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

What can we learn about the future of the church by looking back at Robert Schuller? In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. speaks with sociologists Gerardo Marti and Mark Mulder about their new biography, The Church Must Grow or Perish: Robert Schuller and the Business of American Christianity. Together, they explore how Schuller’s entrepreneurial vision, drive-in worship, and architectural grandeur helped shape the megachurch model—and why his story still matters today. This wide-ranging conversation dives into Schuller’s deep pastoral commitment, his embrace of American capitalism, and the unspoken ways his model of church innovation continues to influence today’s pastors. Loren, Gerardo, and Mark also reflect on what it means to lead faithfully in a culture defined by speed, spectacle, and constant change. Topics Covered The rise and fall of Robert Schuller and the Crystal Cathedral Why Schuller’s legacy lives on in today’s church growth models How capitalism and faith became intertwined in modern ministry The unintended consequences of constant innovation Schuller’s surprising theological conservatism and deep pastoral care What “resonance” offers as a response to cultural acceleration Mark T. Mulder is Professor of Sociology at Calvin University and director of the Common Good Collective. He is the author or co-author of five books In addition, Mulder has published numerous peer-reviewed articles in academic journals, including Social Problems, Religion and American Culture, and The Journal of Urban History. He has also published pieces for church audiences and won writing awards from the Evangelical Press Association and the Associated Church Press. Gerardo Martí is William R. Kenan, Jr. Professor of Sociology at Davidson College and president of the Society for the Scientific Study of Religion. A prolific and award winning author, his research explores religious innovation and the role of religion in shaping patterns of racialization and political engagement in the United States. Bluesky ‪@gerardomarti.bsky.social Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Faculty Website: https://calvin.edu/people/mark-mulder 🌐 Faculty Website: https://www.davidson.edu/people/gerardo-marti 📖 Previous Book: https://www.rutgersuniversitypress.org/the-glass-church/9780813589060/ 📖 The Book: https://www.eerdmans.com/9780802878557/the-church-must-grow-or-perish/ 🎧 Andrew Root: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/walking-into-sorrow-andrew-root-on-evangelism-in-the-age-of-despair/ 🎧 Andrew Root: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/andy-root/ 🎧 Andrew Root: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-jtzdu-1500e5e Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share. Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

What does faith look like in the middle of life? In this special in-person episode of podcast, co-hosts Loren Richmond Jr. and Martha Tatarnic reflect on the spiritual realities of middle age. Recorded together in St. Catharines, Ontario, they explore how faith changes through grief, caregiving, shifting theology, and the evolving nature of ministry. This deeply personal and thought-provoking conversation touches on everything from parenting and loss to theological mystery and sustaining joy in pastoral work. Loren and Martha offer hard-earned wisdom, honesty, and encouragement for anyone trying to live faithfully in the messy middle years of life and leadership. Topics Covered The spiritual needs of middle age (and why churches often overlook them) How grief, caregiving, and loss shape our faith What sustains ministry over the long haul Changing theological priorities after seminary Parenting teenagers and modeling faith without coercion Embracing mystery, awe, and the Spirit’s leading Mentioned Resources: 📖 Martha's Book: https://www.churchpublishing.org/whygather 📖 James Cone: https://orbisbooks.com/products/the-cross-and-the-lynching-tree 🎧 Andrew Root: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/walking-into-sorrow-andrew-root-on-evangelism-in-the-age-of-despair/ 🎧 Arianna Molloy: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/healthy-calling-ariana-malloy-on-burnout-purpose-and-redefining-work/ 🎧 Elizabeth Schrader Polczer: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/elizabeth-schrader-polczer-on-rethinking-mary-magdalene-part-1/ 🎧 Suzanne Nadell: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/leading-with-grace-suzanne-nadell-on-navigating-faith-media-polarization/ Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share. Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

What if the most faithful act of evangelism isn’t preaching—but sitting with someone in their grief? In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with theologian and returning guest Dr. Andrew Root to explore what it means to practice evangelism in an age defined by despair. Drawing from his latest book, Evangelism in the Age of Despair: Hope Beyond the Failed Promise of Happiness, Andy challenges the notion that evangelism is about strategy, persuasion, or growth—and instead reframes it as a practice of consolation. Together, Loren and Andy wrestle with the loneliness, sorrow, and disconnection of modern life. From Facebook Marketplace encounters to late-night hospital chaplaincy calls, this conversation dives deep into the spiritual significance of simply showing up and staying present with people in their suffering. They discuss: Why sorrow is "contagious"—and why that matters The mystical, communal nature of consolation How pastors and chaplains might be better theologians than academics What happens when a society loses its rituals for goodbye Why people turn to the occult when meaning is missing Whether you’re a ministry leader, chaplain, or spiritually curious, this episode will help you rethink what it means to offer hope in a world hungry for presence, not platitudes. Andrew Root is the Carrie Olson Baalson professor of youth and family ministry at Luther Seminary in St. Paul, Minnesota. He writes and researches in areas of theology, ministry, culture and younger generations. His recent books are Churches and the Crisis of Decline, When Church Stops Working, and The Church After Innovation. Andy has worked in congregations, parachurch ministries, and social service programs. He lives in St. Paul with his wife Kara, two children, Owen and Maisy, and their dog. When not reading, writing, or teaching, Andy spends far too much time watching TV and movies. Mentioned Resources: 📖 Book: https://bakerpublishinggroup.com/books/evangelism-in-an-age-of-despair/423470 🌐 Website: https://www.andrewroot.org 🎧 Previous Episode: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/andy-root/ 🎧 Previous Episode: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-jtzdu-1500e5e Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share. Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

As seminaries face shrinking enrollments, rising costs, and shifting demographics, what models of theological education will carry the church forward? In this episode, Loren talks with Bekah Buchterkirchen, a writer, speaker, and former dean of students with nearly a decade in Christian higher education. Drawing from her experiences in seminary leadership—and as a seminary spouse—Bekah offers a thoughtful look at what’s working, what’s not, and what needs to change for theological education to stay relevant and form faithful leaders. Bekah also shares about her own spiritual rhythms as a mother and ministry partner, what she’d do if she were pope for a day, and why the legacy of Tim Keller continues to shape her hopes for the church. Together they explore: The shift away from traditional seminary students to older, working adults The growing presence of women in seminary—and the challenges they still face Creative cohort-based and hybrid models that foster both learning and community The need for deeper church-seminary partnerships and real-time ministry formation Stackable certificates, lay education, and the future of non-traditional theological training Why poor digital presence is a turnoff—and how seminaries can adapt Bekah Buchterkirchen is a writer, speaker, and creative collaborator passionate about cultivating joy and faith in every season. With nearly a decade in Christian higher education and ministry alongside her pastor-husband, she seeks to create spaces where curiosity, hospitality, and the love of Jesus meet. She lives in the Pacific Northwest with their two, almost three, young kids and writes to encourage moms in the trenches of motherhood to seek the Lord daily—even when they feel like it's not enough. Mentioned Resources: 📱 Follow @bekahbuck 🌐 Website: https://www.bekahbuck.com 🎧 Arianna Malloy: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-gb5yr-18a44c5 🎧 John Hawthorne: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-zgqq8-18c307a 🎧 Ulysses Allen: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-iumm4-1502da4 🎧 Ted Smith: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-w4nrb-15d747b Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share. Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

What if the path to hope isn’t found in overcoming pain, but in naming it? In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. speaks with Dr. May Young, Associate Professor of Biblical Studies at Taylor University and author of Walking with God Through the Valley: Recovering the Purpose of Biblical Lament. Together, they explore why lament—too often overlooked in modern Christianity—is not just a personal cry, but a prophetic act of faith. Dr. Young vulnerably shares from her own experience of heartbreak and disorientation, and how discovering the biblical practice of lament became a turning point in her spiritual life. From the Psalms to the prophets, she explains how lament gives believers a faithful way to grieve, resist injustice, and grow in spiritual resilience—even when nothing changes. Topics explored: Why biblical lament is more than venting—it's rooted in God’s character and promises How lament helps churches stand with the suffering and resist apathy Why modern worship often skips lament, and why that’s a problem How unprocessed pain from the COVID era may still be shaping us The difference between stoic acceptance and faithful sorrow What it means to trust God when healing or justice may not come on our timeline May Young (PhD, Trinity Evangelical Divinity School) is associate professor of biblical studies and chairs the Department of Biblical Studies, Christian Ministries, Intercultural Studies, and Philosophy at Taylor University. She has contributed to several volumes focused on lament, including Reading the Psalms Theologically (Lexham) and World Christianity and COVID-19: Discourses and Perspective (Routledge). She is a member of the Evangelical Theological Society and the Society of Biblical Literature and serves on the board of directors of the Institute of Biblical Research, as well as the editorial board for Sacred Roots. Mentioned Resources: 📖 May Young's book: https://www.ivpress.com/walking-with-god-through-the-valley Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share. Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

What happens when a group of women dare to follow their calling—despite being told they can’t? In this compelling episode, Martha Tatarnic speaks with documentary filmmaker Margo Guernsey about her powerful film The Philadelphia Eleven, which tells the story of the first women ordained as Episcopal priests in 1974. Margo reflects on her own evolving faith journey, the deep spiritual nature of storytelling, and how this film reignited her connection with church and community. They discuss the courage and solidarity required to challenge institutional injustice, the cost of following one's calling, and why this story of ecclesiastical disobedience remains incredibly timely today. Whether you’re in ministry or simply seeking inspiration to live more truthfully, this conversation reminds us why history matters—and how faith and justice must always walk hand in hand. Topics Covered: Margo’s journey from UCC upbringing to filmmaking as spiritual practice The groundbreaking ordination of the Philadelphia Eleven Why solidarity, trust, and long-term relationship-building matter The cost of truth-telling and challenging church hierarchy Representation, visibility, and the power of embodied leadership The importance of storytelling in shaping faith and future How churches can resist silence and engage with courage Hosting a screening and engaging your community with the film Margo Guernsey (she/her) is a documentary Director/Producer, impact strategist, and founder of Time Travel Productions LLC. Her films include Councilwoman (America ReFramed 2019), No Time To Fail (America Reframed 2023), The Philadelphia Eleven (impact distribution 2023 - 2024 topping 500 screenings, American Public Television 2025), and THE OFFICIALS (TIME Studios, 2024). Prior to film, Margo worked as a union organizer, non-profit development director, and Spanish/English translator. Margo’s work has received support from Chicken & Egg Pictures, ITVS, Catapult Film Fund, GoodPitch, Perspective Fund, Ford Foundation, Surdna Foundation, and LEF Moving Image Fund among others; and she was a Film Independent Fast Track Fellow. She speaks both Spanish and English and holds an MFA in Film (University of Miami), an MA in History (UMass Amherst), and a BA in History (Brown University). Margo teaches producing as affiliated faculty at Emerson College and is a member of the Documentary Producers Alliance and Global Impact Producers Alliance. Mentioned Resources: 📖 Book recommendation: Song in a Weary Throat by Rev. Dr. Pauli Murray 🌐 No Time to Fail and The Officials (Margo's films on election workers) 🌐 The Philadelphia Eleven film website 🌐 Time Travel Productions Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share. Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with Raymond Chang—pastor, writer, and Executive Director of the TENx10 Collaboration at Fuller Seminary. As co-author of Future Focused Church, Raymond shares a hopeful, grounded vision for how churches can embrace change, cultivate culture, and lead the next generation with clarity and purpose. Drawing from his experience in campus ministry, global missions, and as the president of the Asian American Christian Collaborative, Raymond offers practical wisdom on how to engage young people, make faithful decisions, and ground all change efforts in deep discipleship. The conversation touches on everything from listening well to those who resist, to why the worship service is often the worst place to initiate change. Key Themes: Why the future of the church is still bright Spiritual postures vs. spiritual practices The long, faithful work of building congregational imagination Creating culture change, not just cosmetic change Empowering transformation teams Leading with listening and honoring those who resist Why everything should be grounded in discipleship How to manage hard decisions with grace The danger of political syncretism in the church Raymond Chang is the executive director of the TENx10 Collaboration (part of Fuller Seminary), which is a collaborative movement that is geared toward reaching ten million young people over ten years with the gospel. He is also the president of the Asian American Christian Collaborative, a pastor, and a writer. Prior to his role at Fuller, Raymond served as the associate chaplain for discipleship at Wheaton College. He has worked in the for-profit and nonprofit sectors and served in the Peace Corps in Panama. He and his wife, Jessica Min Chang, are proud parents of Sophia, and they reside in Chicago. Mentioned Resources: 📱 Follow @raychang502 📖 Book: FutureFocusedChurch.com 🌐 TENx10.org: https://www.tenx10.org/ 🌐 Asian American Christian Collaboration: https://asianamericanchristiancollaborative.com/ 🎧 Jeff Keuss: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-8wu23-1703189 Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share. Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

How can the church learn from the newsroom? In this episode, Loren welcomes veteran journalist and media executive Suzanne Nadell to explore what faith leaders can gain from the world of communications. Drawing from her decades of experience in newsrooms across the country, Suzanne reflects on her own faith journey as a preacher’s kid, the challenge of navigating polarization, and how churches can better engage their communities by leading with grace, truth, and thoughtful storytelling. Suzanne shares lessons from her book Wired to Lead, discusses the importance of creating inclusive tables in church spaces, and reveals how spiritual practices like Sabbath and attentiveness to the Holy Spirit have shaped her in both professional and personal life. Whether you're a pastor, lay leader, or simply curious about the overlap between faith and media, this episode offers rich insights on leading well in divided times. Topics Covered: Suzanne’s faith story as a preacher’s kid who found her own faith in adulthood Lessons from the newsroom that church leaders should embrace Why churches must get out of their cultural bubbles Communicating hard truths with kindness How Sabbath is an act of trust in God Building healthier boundaries in a 24/7 world Tips for better communication and storytelling in church Why Suzanne finds inspiration in Priscilla and other overlooked women in scripture Her hope for a less politically divided and more community-rooted church Mentioned Resources: 📖 Her book: Wired to Lead 🌐 Suzanne's Website: https://suzannenadell.com/ 🌐 She Leads Church: https://www.sheleadschurch.com/ Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share. Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

What if Christian colleges—and churches—stopped being driven by fear? In this episode of the Future Christian Podcast, Loren sits down (literally, in person) with sociologist and Substack writer John Hawthorne to talk about his new book The Fearless Christian University. Drawing on nearly four decades in Christian higher education, John outlines why so many institutions have slipped into what Andy Crouch calls "zombie mode"—defined more by inertia than imagination. This conversation moves fluidly between Christian universities and local churches, asking critical questions about sustainability, fear-based culture wars, institutional loyalty, and what it looks like to center the real questions of a rising generation. Together, John and Loren explore: Why Christian institutions often default to fear and control What it means to be a “zombie institution”—and how to wake up How schools and churches can move from protecting tradition to cultivating belonging The importance of legitimizing doubt and centering student (or congregant) questions Whether it's possible to hold onto theological identity without gatekeeping How online church and online education can erode or support community Why belonging may need to come before belief John Hawthorne is a sociologist who spent nearly four decades in Christian higher education. He served as faculty member and academic administrator over the course of his career, spending time in five different Christian universities. He writes a Substack that often deals with issues in Christian higher education and has been regularly interviewed for Christianity Today, Religion News Service, Sojourners, Inside Higher Ed, and the Associated Press. His publications include A First Step into a Much Larger World: The Christian University and Beyond. Mentioned Resources: 📱 Follow https://bsky.app/profile/jwhawthorne.bsky.social 📖 Book: https://www.eerdmans.com/9780802884565/the-fearless-christian-university/ 🌐 John's Substack: https://substack.com/@johnhawthorne 🎧 Jeff Keuss: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-8wu23-1703189 Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share. Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

Can your church pay the bills and follow God’s call with integrity? In this episode, Loren talks with stewardship educator and sustainability strategist Grace Duddy Pomroy about how churches can embrace bold, faithful financial models without compromising their mission. Grace offers insights drawn from her national research and latest book on reimagining how churches fund ministry—from sliding-scale rentals to community-rooted partnerships. Topics Explored: Why your mission must come before your money The spiritual practices that sustain long-term financial change How to rethink rent, real costs, and what generosity really looks like Why churches need to grieve the past to make room for the future A six-part “rocket ship” model for launching sustainable ideas The myth of quick fixes—and the value of faithful experimentation Grace Duddy Pomroy is the Director of the Stewardship Leaders Program at Luther Seminary. She’s a lay, millennial stewardship leader, speaker, and financial educator based in Allyn, WA. She is the co-author of the stewardship book, Embracing Stewardship: How to Put Stewardship at the Heart of Your Congregation’s Life, as well as author of the free 2013 ELCA stewardship resource, “Stewards of God’s Love.” Her latest book, Funding Forward: A Pathway to More Sustainable Models for Ministry, was just released September 2024. Grace is also a consultant with Relèven, a charitable organization that lovingly preserves, restores, and repurposes under-utilized churches into community hubs and affordable housing. Mentioned Resources: 📱 Follow https://www.instagram.com/gracepomroy/ on Instagram 📖 Book: https://www.fortresspress.com/store/product/9781506493336/Funding-Forward 🌐 Funding Forward: https://faithlead.org/funding-forward 🌐 Releven: https://releven.org/ 🎧 Mark Elsdon: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/eldson/ 🎧 Mark Elsdon: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/mark-elsdon-on-why-we-arent-broke/ 🎧 Jessica Dominguez: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/jessica-dominguez-on-mobilizing-churches-for-affordable-housing/ Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share. Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

What if your church property wasn’t a burden—but a blessing to your neighbors? In this episode, Loren talks with John Cleghorn about the growing movement of churches reimagining their buildings and land to address the affordable housing crisis. Drawing from firsthand experience and national trends, John explores how faith communities can embrace a new missional identity rooted in service, hospitality, and justice. Whether you’re a pastor, denominational leader, or simply wondering what’s next for the American church, this conversation offers both challenge and hope. This episode includes: How churches are transforming unused space into affordable housing The pastoral challenge of helping congregations grieve old models while embracing new vision Why engaging neighbors is essential before development The tension between mission and monetization What it means to be a church after Christendom—and why that might be good news John Cleghorn became pastor of Caldwell Presbyterian in 2008 after 25 years in banking and journalism. He has served Caldwell as it rebounded from almost closing to become a vibrant, diverse, mission-driven congregation centered on the love and justice of Jesus Christ. His latest book, Building Belonging: The Church’s Call to Create Community and House Our Neighbors, springs from his congregation’s experience and his national research into the emerging movement of faith-based organizations building affordable housing on their property. Building Belonging blends theology and Bible study with case studies and lessons learned From the movement. A native of Atlanta, he has lived in Charlotte since 1986 and has served on a wide array of non-profit agency boards in the religious and human services fields at the local and national levels. He is currently a board member of WFAE. He is married to Kelly, a kindergarten teacher, and has two adult children. He holds a Doctorate in Ministry from Pittsburgh Theological Seminary, a Master of Divinity from Union Presbyterian Seminary and a Bachelor of Arts from Washington and Lee University. His first book, Resurrecting Church: Where Justice and Diversity Meet Radical Welcome and Healing Hope (Fortress Press), came out in 2020. Mentioned Resources: 📖 Book: https://www.wjkbooks.com/Products/0664268501/building-belonging.aspx 🌐 Caldwell Presbyterian: https://www.caldwellpresby.org/ 🎧 Mark Elsdon: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/eldson/ 🎧 Mark Elsdon: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/mark-elsdon-on-why-we-arent-broke/ Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share. Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant