Future Christian

What does it mean to center the life of the church around the table—and why has the Eucharist so often been pushed to the margins? In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with Rev. Dr. Jarrod Longbons about cultivating a Eucharistic movement in the modern church. Drawing from theology, liturgical practice, and pastoral experience, Longbons invites leaders to reconsider how worship has shifted toward production and consumption—and what is lost when the table is no longer central. The conversation explores how the Eucharist forms identity over time, not just as a ritual but as a way of life. Rather than seeing communion as an add-on or symbolic moment, they discuss how it can become the organizing center of worship, shaping how communities understand grace, presence, and participation. They also reflect on how modern church models often prioritize content over formation, why repetition and liturgy still matter, and what it might look like to reorient church life around shared practices that cultivate deeper community and spiritual depth. Together they explore: Why the Eucharist has been marginalized in modern worship The difference between consumer-driven worship and Eucharistic formation How the table shapes identity, community, and mission The formative power of liturgy and repetition What it looks like to re-center worship around communion Practical ways church leaders can begin cultivating a Eucharistic culture Rev. Dr. Jarrod Longbons is the Senior Minister of Peachtree Christian Church, where he seeks to share the heart of Christ in the heart of the city. A pastor-theologian and gifted communicator, he brings together thoughtful biblical interpretation, pastoral warmth, and a passion for connecting faith with contemporary life. Jarrod is deeply committed to discipleship, worship, and cultivating a church that serves both its members and the wider community. His ministry is shaped by a love for teaching, the arts, and the formation of leaders for the Church. He and his family consider it a joy to walk alongside the people of Peachtree in God’s ongoing work of renewal and hope. Outside of ministry, he enjoys Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Golf, and Fly Fishing. Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Jarrod's Church Website: Peachtree Christian Church 🎧 Jarrod's Podcast: Complex Creatures 🎧 Jarrod's Podcast: Who Watches the Re-Watchers 🟧 Jarrod's Substack: keepafire.substack.com 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Andrew Root 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Ted Smith 🎧 Episodes Referenced: DOC Roundtable 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Ryan Burge Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/ Supporting Sponsors: Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History Available for Pre-order now! Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer SEO / Keywords Eucharistic movement, Eucharist theology, communion centrality, Lord’s Supper, sacramental theology, liturgical renewal, table-centered worship, worship formation, consumer vs formative worship, church worship practices, liturgy and repetition, embodied faith, communal worship, spiritual formation church, re-centering the church, historic Christian practices, future of the church, church leadership and worship, Jarrod Longbons, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.

What does it really take to engage younger generations—and why do so many of our assumptions about them fall short? In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with sociologist Dr. Josh Packard about his book Faithful Futures and what churches often misunderstand about Gen Z and Gen Alpha. Drawing from years of research, Packard challenges the tendency to reduce younger generations to stereotypes and instead invites leaders to approach them with curiosity, humility, and a posture of listening. The conversation explores how rapid cultural change has created a “fast and slow” dynamic in young people’s lives, why relationships—not institutions—are now the primary source of trust, and how churches can rethink formation beyond simply passing down right answers. They also discuss the importance of communal worship in an age of loneliness, the role of sacred space, and how young people are constructing “micro-narratives” of meaning in a world where institutional authority is often questioned. Together they explore: Why generational stereotypes fail—and what to focus on instead The “fast and slow” reality of growing up today How trust has shifted from institutions to relationships Why listening matters more than giving answers The role of communal worship and sacred space in a lonely world How young people build meaning through “micro-narratives” Dr. Josh Packard is the co-founder of Future of Faith and one of the foremost experts in the spiritual lives of American youth and religious trends in the United States. He is an accomplished researcher in the sociology of religion and new forms of religious expression. He is a frequent keynote speaker and acts as an advisor and board member to a number of faith-based organizations. Josh has authored numerous books and articles in both popular and academic outlets including the recently released Faithful Futures: Sacred Tools for Engaging Younger Generations. Previous books include Church Refugees: Sociologists reveal why people are DONE with church but not their faith and Meaning Making: 8 Values That Drive America’s Newest Generations. Josh was previously a professor, founding Executive Director of Springtide Research Institute and Executive Vice President of Strategy with the National Catholic Educational Association. He has a BA in English from Texas Lutheran University and Ph.D. in Sociology from Vanderbilt University. He lives in Greeley, Colorado with his wife and teenage son where he is quickly becoming the third best golfer in his family of three. Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Josh's Website: Future of Faith 📖 Josh's Book: Faithful Futures 📱Twitter/X: @drjoshpackard 📱 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshpackard/ 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Andrew Root 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Megan Bissell 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Mike Orr 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Ryan Burge Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/ Supporting Sponsors: Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History Available for Pre-order now! Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer SEO / Keywords contemporary worship, praise and worship history, worship wars, worship industry, church music theology, hymns vs modern worship, liturgy renewal, lament in worship, worship leader burnout, secular songs in church, worship culture, evangelical worship music, mainline worship styles, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.

What does it mean to live faithfully in a world that rewards conformity—and why might the Christian life feel “weird”? In this episode, Martha Tatarnic talks with Aaron Miller about what it looks like to follow Jesus in a way that resists cultural expectations and embraces a more intentional, embodied faith. Drawing from his ministry experience and writing, Aaron reframes “weird” not as something to avoid, but as a sign of living in alignment with the kingdom of God. The conversation explores how practices like prayer, Scripture, lament, and worship form disciples who can live with clarity and conviction in a complex world. Aaron also highlights the role of imagination in the Christian life—both as a response to cultural challenges and as a way to envision communities shaped by hope. They discuss the importance of formation over performance, the tension between cultural relevance and faithfulness, and how local churches can cultivate rhythms that sustain authentic discipleship. Together they explore: Why the Christian life can feel “weird”—and why that’s not a problem The role of spiritual practices in forming faithful disciples How imagination shapes both personal faith and church life The importance of lament, presence, and embodied faith What it looks like to live with intentionality in everyday life Rev Aaron Miller is the congregational minister at University Hill United Church, and the UCC campus minister at the University of British Columbia. He is the author of Witnesses of These Things: Faithfulness Here and Now, and Weird in the World: Living Towards the World God Wants. Aaron lives in Vancouver with his wife, Kate, and their teenaged sons. Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Aaron's Website: 📖 Aaron's Book: Weird in the World 📖 Aaron's Book: Witnesses of These Things 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Andy Root 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Kara Root Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/ Supporting Sponsors: Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History Available for Pre-order now! Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer SEO / Keywords Aaron Miller, Martha Tatarnic, Christian discipleship, spiritual formation, living weird for Jesus, Christian practices, prayer and Scripture, lament and worship, imagination and faith, Sermon on the Mount, Psalm 34, practicing the way, church leadership formation, mainline church, authentic faith, embodied discipleship, Future Christian Podcast

What can sports rivalries and cultural moments reveal about leadership, character, and the values that shape us? In this episode, Loren and Martha take a conversational turn that begins with sports, competition, and cultural dynamics—but quickly opens into deeper reflections on character, leadership, and community. What starts as a lighthearted discussion about sports rivalries between Canada and the United States becomes a thoughtful conversation about identity, integrity, and how competition reveals the values that lie beneath the surface of our culture. Along the way, they reflect on how rivalry, loyalty, and belonging shape the way communities see themselves and others. The conversation also explores the ways everyday cultural moments—whether sports, media, or shared public experiences—can open surprising opportunities to think more deeply about leadership, character, and the habits that form us. This episode offers a reflective and engaging conversation about competition, identity, and the cultural stories that shape the way we live and lead. Together they explore: How sports rivalries shape identity and community What competition reveals about character and leadership The cultural narratives embedded in sports and public life The tension between rivalry, belonging, and respect How everyday cultural moments can open deeper conversations about values and faith Mentioned Resources: 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Bill Harrison 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Arianna Molloy Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/ Supporting Sponsors: Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History Available for Pre-order now! Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer SEO / Keywords Martha Tatarnic, sports and faith, leadership and character, competition and culture, Christian leadership formation, church leadership conversations, cultural analysis and faith, community and identity, discipleship and culture, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr., faith and culture discussion

What does it mean to belong to God when the structures of faith you once trusted begin to fall apart? In this episode, Loren talks with Kara Root—pastor, spiritual director, and author of The Deepest Belonging and A Pilgrimage into Letting Go—about faith, loss, and the surprising ways God rebuilds belief when certainty collapses. Drawing from her own journey through the unraveling of a ministry-centered evangelical world, Kara reflects on how faith can be rebuilt from the ground up through pilgrimage, prayer, and honest encounters with suffering. The conversation explores the difference between inherited faith and lived faith, and why belonging to God often emerges most clearly when our illusions fall away. They also discuss the role of Sabbath rest, spiritual practices, and pastoral leadership in helping congregations navigate seasons of change and uncertainty. This episode offers a reflective and hopeful conversation about letting go of what no longer holds—and discovering the deeper belonging God offers in its place. Together they explore: How faith can be rebuilt after the collapse of inherited religious systems The spiritual significance of pilgrimage and letting go Why belonging to God is deeper than belonging to institutions The role of Sabbath, prayer, and spiritual practices in sustaining faith How pastors and churches navigate seasons of change and uncertainty Rev. Kara K. Root is the author of The Deepest Belonging (2021), Receiving This Life: (2023), and A Pilgrimage Into Letting Go (2025, with husband, Andy). ​Pastor of Lake Nokomis Presbyterian Church in Minneapolis, MN, a Christian community that shapes its life around worship, hospitality and Sabbath rest, she is a trained Spiritual Director and Certified Educator in the PCUSA. Being mom to two intrepid young adults (and a goofy dog), and wife and proofreader to a wily theologian, spices up her vocational calling and keeps her fully immersed in life. She has written for Sparkhouse, Working Preacher, Christian Century, Christianity Today, Faith and Leadership, Patheos and more. Kara leads retreats and workshops on sabbath rest, prayer practices, and church leadership and transformation. ​​Kara and her husband, Andy, lead workshops and speak together through Root Creative, inc. Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Kara's Website: https://www.karakroot.com/about.html#/ 📖 Kara's Book: A Pilgrimage into Letting Go 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Andy Root 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Kelsey McGinnis Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/ Supporting Sponsors: Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History Available for Pre-order now! Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer SEO / Keywords Kara Root, The Deepest Belonging, A Pilgrimage into Letting Go, faith after deconstruction, spiritual pilgrimage, Sabbath practices, spiritual formation, rebuilding faith, pastoral leadership, church and doubt, belonging to God, Christian spiritual practices, evangelicalism and faith transition, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.

How did contemporary praise and worship develop—and who is shaping what the church sings today? In this episode, Loren talks with Kelsey McGinnis to explore the evolution of modern worship, the lingering effects of the “worship wars,” and the growing influence of the worship industry on local congregations. They discuss how large-scale production and publishing networks shape song selection and theology, the unseen pressures facing worship leaders, and what healthy support actually looks like in a local church. The conversation also revisits the hymns versus modern worship debate, the renewed interest in liturgy, and whether lament, silence, and stillness have space in contemporary services. This episode offers a thoughtful, grounded look at how what we sing forms what we believe—and how churches might lead worship more intentionally in the years ahead. Together they explore: The rise of contemporary praise and worship How the worship industry shapes theology and song selection The pressures facing today’s worship leaders Hymns, liturgy, and the place of lament Whether secular songs belong in church Kelsey McGinnis is the worship correspondent for Christianity Today. She holds a PhD in musicology and teaches music and theology at Grand View University in Des Moines, Iowa, and writes broadly on Christian music and the intersection of American Christianity and popular culture. Kelsey is a coauthor of the book The Myth of Good Christian Parenting and the author of a forthcoming book about Christian diet and wellness culture. She lives in central Iowa with her husband and three children. Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Kelsey's Website: https://www.kkramermcginnis.com/ 📖 Kelsey's Book: The Myth of Good Christian Parenting 🟧 Kelsey's Substack: https://kkramermcginnis.substack.com/ 📱 Instagram: @kelseykmcginnis 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Michelle Van Loon 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Michael Huerter 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Robert Schuller Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/ Supporting Sponsors: Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History Available for Pre-order now! Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer SEO / Keywords contemporary worship, praise and worship history, worship wars, worship industry, church music theology, hymns vs modern worship, liturgy renewal, lament in worship, worship leader burnout, secular songs in church, worship culture, evangelical worship music, mainline worship styles, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.

What does Gen Z really believe about God? And what are they actually asking? In this episode, Loren talks with Tanita Tualla Maddox, National Director for Generational Impact at Young Life and author of What Gen Z Really Wants to Know About God. Tanita offers a compelling case for cultural apologetics—understanding the lens through which Gen Z asks timeless questions like “Is God good?” She also challenges churches to move from abstract teaching to concrete spiritual practices that help young people live out their faith in real relationships. Together they explore: Why headlines about Gen Z “revival” can be misleading The reality of low trust culture—and how to earn it How Gen Z defines acceptance, belonging, and safety Why evangelism must go beyond “just invite your friends to church” Practical ways churches can disciple students in a post-Christian world The importance of teaching young people to articulate their own testimony Why isolating teenagers from the broader church might be a mistake Tanita Tualla Maddox (DMin, Phoenix Seminary) is the national director for generational impact for Young Life and serves as an associate regional director in the Mountain West Young Life region. With an expertise in contextualizing the gospel for Gen Z, Tanita has been featured on The Holy Post podcast and has been published in The Great Commission Research Journal, the Journal of Youth and Theology, and more. She has served as Young Life leader with adolescents for over twenty-six years and serves as a volunteer Young Life leader in her local community. She lives in Spokane, Washington, with her husband and two children. Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Her Website: https://tanitamaddox.com/ 📖 Her Book: https://www.ivpress.com/what-gen-z-really-wants-to-know-about-god 📱 Instagram & FB: @drtanitamaddox 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Mike Orr Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/ Supporting Sponsors: Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History Available for Pre-order now! Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer SEO / Keywords Tanita Tualla Maddox, Gen Z faith, What Gen Z Really Wants to Know About God, Young Life, generational ministry, youth ministry strategy, cultural apologetics, post-Christian culture, evangelism training, Gen Z and church, belonging and acceptance, discipling teenagers, low trust culture, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.

What happens when pastors care for everyone else—but neglect their own soul? In this episode, Loren talks with Bill and Kristi Gaultiere, founders of Soul Shepherding and co-authors of Deeply Loved: Receiving and Reflecting God’s Great Empathy for You. Together, they explore why emotional health is not optional for Christian leaders—and why empathy begins with receiving God’s love, not just offering it to others. Drawing from decades of experience in psychology, spiritual direction, and ministry leadership, the Gaultieres unpack the difference between empathy and indulgence, how unaddressed shame leads to burnout, and why pastors must have a safe place to be listened to and prayed for. They also discuss: Why emotions are gifts—but terrible masters The danger of processing unresolved wounds from the platform Burnout warning signs every pastor should recognize Compassion fatigue and isolation in ministry Why leaders must receive pastoral care, not just provide it This conversation is a candid and practical guide for church leaders who want their ministry to flow from healing and authenticity rather than exhaustion and performance. Bill is a psychologist (PhD) and ordained pastor and Kristi is a licensed professional counselor (PsyD). Together they lead Soul Shepherding, which is a nonprofit ministry to help pastors, leaders, churches, and others to go deeper with Jesus in emotional health and loving leadership. They lead immersive retreats that integrate Jesus-centered psychology and spiritual formation. Participants have the option to earn a Certificate in Spiritual Direction to improve their relationship skills and earn side income as a spiritual director or coach. They are authors of a number of soul care books, including Journey of the Soul, which was #1 on Amazon in Christian Counseling, and Healthy Feelings, Thriving Faith. Their newest book is Deeply Loved: Receiving and Reflecting God’s Great Empathy for You. Bill and Kristi have provided over 100,000 hours helping clients in therapy or spiritual direction. They were also personally mentored by Dallas and Jane Willard for many years. They have developed a unique approach to spiritual direction that is informed by their Jesus-centered psychology. Their two-year Certificate in Spiritual Direction training program is a hybrid of in person retreats and online training (or it can be completed 100% online) and currently has over 150 students participating. Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Their Website: www.soulshepherding.org 🌐 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/billgaultiere 📱 Instagram & FB: @soulshepherding 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Chuck DeGroat 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Josh Packard 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Tara Beth Leach Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/ Supporting Sponsors: Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History Available for Pre-order now! Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer SEO / Keywords Bill Gaultiere, Kristi Gaultiere, Soul Shepherding, Deeply Loved book, empathy in ministry, pastoral burnout, emotional health for pastors, compassion fatigue, spiritual direction training, church leadership formation, sustainable ministry, shame and leadership, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.

Why should we still be planting churches—and what should church planting look like in a rapidly changing world? In this episode, Loren is joined by Len Tang, Director of the Church Planting Initiative at Fuller Seminary, for a wide-ranging conversation about mission, formation, and the future of church planting. Drawing on his experience planting churches and training planters across diverse contexts, Len reframes church planting as a normal part of the church’s life cycle—one that includes birth, growth, reproduction, and sometimes faithful endings. The conversation explores why growth alone is an inadequate metric, how global migration is reshaping mission fields, and why new expressions of church must be deeply contextual, diverse, and disciple-centered. Loren and Len also discuss the emotional and spiritual realities of church planting: grief, resilience, failure, and the importance of practices like Sabbath, lament, and community support. Rather than treating church planting as a silver bullet, the episode makes the case for forming leaders with character, humility, and a deep grounding in the way of Jesus. This is a thoughtful conversation for pastors, planters, denominational leaders, and anyone discerning how the church can participate faithfully in God’s mission today. Topics Include Why church planting is a normal—and finite—part of church life Growth, reproduction, and the reality of church endings Global migration and new mission fields close to home Moving beyond one-size-fits-all planting models Bivocational ministry, social entrepreneurship, and sustainability Character over charisma in church planting leadership Grief, failure, and resilience in ministry Discipleship as the true measure of fruitfulness Len Tang is the Director of the Church Planting Initiative at Fuller Seminary, and has planted two churches: Cedar Creek Church in Sherwood, Oregon, and Missio Community Church in Pasadena, CA. He received a B.S. in Electrical Engineering and Computer Science from UC Berkeley and an MDiv from Fuller Seminary. He is married to Amy and they have three young adult boys, a cat, and an electric motorcycle. Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Fuller Website: churchplanting.fuller.edu 🌐 Website: Faithful Resistance.com 📱 Len's Instagram & FB: @len.tang 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Tim Morey 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Nick Warnes 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Dwight Zscheile Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/ Supporting Sponsors: Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History Available for Pre-order now! Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer SEO / Keywords Len Tang, church planting, Fuller Seminary church planting initiative, missional church, discipleship and mission, global migration and church, bivocational ministry, church growth vs faithfulness, church planter formation, character over charisma, failure in ministry, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.

What if the future of the church isn’t found in choosing between old and new—but in learning how both can flourish together? In this episode, Loren is joined by Dwight Zscheile and Blair Pogue for a wide-ranging conversation about their book, Embracing the Mixed Ecology, and what it means to form Christian communities in a changing world. Drawing on their experience in congregational leadership, theological education, and diocesan innovation, Dwight and Blair make the case for a mixed ecology of church—where inherited congregations, new communities, fresh expressions, digital ministry, and lay-led initiatives work together to embody the gospel. Rather than dismissing institutions or chasing quick fixes, the conversation emphasizes discipleship, listening to neighbors, and adapting church forms without abandoning the substance of the faith. The episode also explores why activism alone cannot sustain Christian identity, how polarization distorts formation, and why the church must recover practices that shape people into a distinct way of life centered on Jesus. Topics Include What a “mixed ecology” of church actually means Why inherited churches still matter—and where they fall short Fresh expressions, microchurches, and lay-led ministry Discipleship vs. political or cultural substitutes for faith Listening as the starting point for mission Digital ministry as doorway, not replacement When and how churches may need to end faithfully The Rev. Dwight Zscheile, Ph.D. is professor of congregational mission and leadership at Luther Seminary in St. Paul, Minnesota. He is author of Embracing the Mixed Ecology: Inherited and New Forms of Christian Community Flourishing Together (with Blair Pogue, Seabury Books 2025), Leading Faithful Innovation: Following God into a Hopeful Future (with Michael Binder and Tessa Pinkstaff, Fortress, 2023), Participating in God’s Mission: A Theological Missiology for the Church in America (with Craig Van Gelder, Eerdmans, 2018), The Agile Church: Spirit-Led Innovation in an Uncertain Age (Morehouse Publishing, 2014), People of the Way: Renewing Episcopal Identity (Morehouse Publishing, 2012) and The Missional Church in Perspective: Mapping Trends and Shaping the Conversation (with Craig Van Gelder, Baker Academic 2011), editor of Cultivating Sent Communities: Missional Spiritual Formation (Eerdmans, 2012) and co-editor (with Ed Olsworth-Peter) of The Starter’s Way: Leading New Contextual Christian Communities (Church Publishing, 2025). A graduate of Stanford University (BA), Yale University (MDiv) and Luther Seminary (PhD, Congregational Mission and Leadership), he has served congregations in Minnesota and Virginia. Dwight’s experience growing up in a secular home in California has shaped his commitment to helping the church cultivate Christian community with neighbors in today’s changing world. The Rev. Canon Blair Pogue is the Canon for Innovation for the Episcopal Church in Minnesota. In that capacity she helps congregations all over the state go deeper in their practice of the Christian faith and rethink how they form disciples and engage the communities surrounding their church. She also runs learning communities for Episcopalians wanting to learn how to form Christian community with neighbors where they live, work, and play. Before joining Bishop Craig Loya’s staff she was the rector of St. Matthew’s Episcopal Church in St. Paul for 16 ½ years, and before that she served two churches in the Diocese of Virginia, with a special focus on Christian formation. She is a graduate of Luther Seminary (D.Min in Congregational Mission and Leadership), Yale Divinity School (M.Div), and Whitman College (B.A.). Mentioned Resources: 📖 Their Book: Embracing the Mixed Ecology 🌐 Dwight's Website: https://www.dwightzscheile.com/ 📧 Blair's Email: [email protected] 🎧 Episodes Referenced: William Harrison Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/ Supporting Sponsors: Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer SEO / Keywords Dwight Zscheile, Blair Pogue, Embracing the Mixed Ecology, mixed ecology church, fresh expressions, inherited church, church innovation, post-Christian ministry, discipleship formation, lay-led ministry, digital church, future of the church, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.

What does it mean to remain faithful to a calling when the church itself says no? In this episode, Martha Tatarnic is joined by Rose Hudson‑Wilkin, Bishop of Dover, for a wide-ranging conversation rooted in her memoir, The Girl from Montego Bay. Drawing on her journey from a childhood in Jamaica to episcopal leadership in the Church of England, Bishop Rose reflects on poverty, belonging, the discovery of God’s love, and the clarity of call that sustained her through repeated rejection. She speaks candidly about racism in the church, the pressure of being “the first,” and the cost of leadership when institutions lag behind the Spirit. The conversation also explores motherhood and ministry, Scripture as a lived practice, faith in public life, and what Bishop Rose believes the church most urgently needs now: confident Christians who live their faith beyond the church door. This episode offers pastoral wisdom and spiritual encouragement for anyone discerning vocation, navigating institutional resistance, or seeking a faith marked by courage, joy, and love. Topics Include Discerning a call without visible role models Growing up poor without growing up diminished Scripture as a source of belonging and confidence Racism, representation, and leadership pressure Motherhood and ministry as shared vocation Why the church needs confident Christians now Faith lived publicly, not defensively The Rt Revd Rose Hudson-Wilkin, CD, MBE was born and raised in Jamaica before coming to the UK to study. Ordained to the priesthood in 1994, in 2007 she was appointed as a Chaplain to Her Late Majesty the Queen and in 2010, became the first female appointed to the position of the 79th Chaplain to the Speaker of the House of Commons. In November 2019 she was consecrated as a Bishop in the Church of England and installed in Canterbury Cathedral. In May 2023, Bishop Rose was one of three female bishops to make history by playing a part in the coronation of King Charles lll. Her autobiography, ‘The Girl From Montego Bay’ was published in January 2025. Bishop Rose is in wide demand as a preacher and speaker undertaking engagements both nationally and internationally, as well as making regular appearances in the media. Mentioned Resources: 📖 Her Book: The Girl from Montego Bay 🌐 Facebook: Bishop of Dover 🎧 Audiobook: Listen for Free Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/ Supporting Sponsors: Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer SEO / Keywords Rose Hudson-Wilkin, Bishop of Dover, Bishop in Canterbury, The Girl from Montego Bay, women in ministry, Black church leadership, calling and vocation, racism in the church, Church of England, confident Christians, faith and public life, memoir theology, Future Christian Podcast, Martha Tatarnic

What does it mean to lead faithfully when change is unavoidable—and grief is real? In this episode, Loren is joined by Rev. Dr. Josh Hayden for a deeply honest conversation about remissioning churches and navigating loss. Drawing from his work with congregations across denominations—and from his own experience of profound personal grief—Josh reflects on what it means to embrace change that is rooted in love, sacrifice, and hope. Rather than treating renewal as a technical fix, the conversation explores remissioning as a discipleship-centered process that requires dying to old versions of ourselves so new life can emerge. Together, Loren and Josh wrestle with fear, resistance to change, the pace of transformation, and why churches often avoid the very practices that form people to live faithfully through loss. Josh Hayden is the cofounder and copresident of `Iwa Collaborative, which helps leaders fly high and and live low as they lead through change processes in their community. He runs remissioning trainings through `Iwa Collaborative across various denominational, non-denominational, and global networks. Hayden is the senior pastor at First Baptist Church in Ashland, Virginia. He has worked and led in nonprofit organizations, church plants, and established churches. He has a doctorate in leadership and organizational change from Duke Divinity School and is the author of Sacred Hope. He serves on the boards of numerous nonprofits, and he and his family live near Richmond, Virginia. Mentioned Resources: 📖 His Book: Remissioning Church 🌐 Website: `Iwa Collaborative 🎧 Episode Referenced: Jack Shitama 🎧 Episode Referenced: Angela Gorrell 🎧 Episode Referenced: Andrew Root Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/ Supporting Sponsors: Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer SEO / Keywords Josh Hayden, remissioning churches, church renewal, church change, leading through grief, discipleship and change, pastoral leadership, Edwin Friedman, family systems theory, cross before resurrection, church revitalization vs remissioning, grief and faith, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.

What does it mean to worship faithfully in a digital age when church participation is no longer limited to a physical room? In this episode, Loren is joined by Michael Huerter to talk about hybrid church, online worship, and how technology is reshaping participation in Christian life. Drawing from Michael’s experience in worship leadership and digital ministry, the conversation explores how the pandemic accelerated changes already underway and why worship has always involved mediation and technology. Loren and Michael discuss common assumptions about online participation, the pressure placed on worship leaders to produce spiritual experiences, and how hybrid models can expand access without reducing worship to consumption. Rather than treating digital worship as a temporary solution or a threat to embodiment, the episode examines how churches can think more carefully about participation, formation, and accessibility in a hybrid context. Topics include: What “hybrid church” actually means Why worship has always been mediated Assumptions about online participation Pressure on worship leaders to perform Hybrid worship and accessibility This episode is a practical conversation for pastors, worship leaders, and church leaders navigating worship in a digital and hybrid age. Michael Huerter (PhD, Baylor University) is a pastor at Holmeswood Baptist Church in Kansas City, Missouri, where he leads worship and works to build community and connection. As a lifelong church musician and digital native, he is interested in engaging with and contributing to scholarship that bridges the gap between research and practical ministry. Mentioned Resources: 📖 His Book: The Hybrid Congregation 🎧 Episode Referenced: DOC Roundtable 🎧 Episode Referenced: Andrew Draper 🎧 Episode Referenced: David Taylor 🎧 Episode Referenced: The Pressure to Perform Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/ Supporting Sponsors: Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer SEO / Keywords Hybrid church, hybrid worship, online worship, digital church, worship technology, mediated worship, worship leadership, participation in worship, embodiment and accessibility, church after COVID, future of worship, Michael Huerter, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.

What does it mean for a church to thrive when membership is declining, resources feel scarce, and the future is uncertain? In this episode, Loren is joined by Kory Wilcoxson and Erin Cash to talk about their book, Thriving Church: What We Can Learn from Faithful Congregations, and the real-world practices of congregations navigating change with courage and clarity. Drawing from years of congregational research and ministry experience, the conversation explores how churches can remain faithful to their calling without being governed by fear, metrics, or nostalgia. Kory and Erin reflect on the importance of grounding ministry in Scripture, revisiting mission and vision regularly, and honoring the past without being constrained by it. Rather than equating thriving with growth, the episode makes a case for faithfulness, imagination, and adaptability—especially in mainline Protestant contexts where decline is often assumed to be the whole story. Topics include: Why thriving is not the same as numerical growth How fear distorts mission—and how clarity restores it What it looks like for a church to be both “dying” and thriving Honoring history without letting it become a barrier to change Why Scripture still matters deeply for faithful congregations This episode is a grounded, hopeful conversation for pastors and church leaders discerning how to lead well in seasons of transition. Rev. Dr. Kory Wilcoxson has served as the Senior Pastor of Crestwood Christian Church in Lexington, Ky., since 2009. Prior to moving to Lexington, he served for twelve years as a pastor in the Chicago and Indianapolis areas. Wilcoxson holds degrees from Indiana University ((BA in Speech Communication), Ohio University (MA in Interpersonal Communication), Christian Theological Seminary (Master of Divinity), and Lexington Theological Seminary (Doctor of Divinity). Wilcoxson has served in a number of leadership positions within the Kentucky Region and Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) denomination, including moderator of the Kentucky Regional Board, chair of the Board of Directors for the Council on Christian Unity (now the Christian Unity and Interfaith Ministry), and member of the Board of Directors for Disciples Home Missions. Wilcoxson is also the executive director of Compassionate Lexington, an organization which seeks to promote the core value of compassion through concrete action. Wilcoxson has two adult daughters: Sydney and Molly. He enjoys reading, running, and rooting on his beloved Cincinnati Reds. Erin Cash is the Project Director for the Thriving Congregations Project at Lexington Theological Seminary. Prior to this role, Erin served as Director of Admissions at LTS for over 8 years. She is a graduate of Greenville University in Greenville, IL, Candler School of Theology at Emory University in Atlanta, GA, and Lexington Theological Seminary in Lexington, KY. Ordained in 2006, Erin enjoys the opportunities she has to serve in pulpit supply, guest lectures, and as a lay leader in her own congregation. Erin has served as Moderator for the Christian Church In Kentucky, as co-chair of the Local Arrangements team for Regional Assembly, and as co-chair for the Local Arrangements Team of the General Assembly. She also serves as Kentucky’s representative to the General Board, chairing the General Assembly Planning Committee there. Erin is deeply passionate about the work of the local and the Regional church. She is co-author of the book Thriving Church: What You Can Learn from Faithful Congregations now available from Chalice Press. Erin is part of a clergy couple. Her husband, Chris, is the Senior Pastor at FCC Georgetown, having formerly served North Middletown Christian Church and Oxford Christian Church. She is mom to Ella, who is a Junior at Murray State University. In her free time, Erin enjoys baking, hiking, exploring the National Parks, baseball games, and any experience that involves a lake, pool, or the ocean. Mentioned Resources: 📖 Their Book: Thriving Church 🎧 Episode Referenced: DOC Roundtable 🎧 Episode Referenced: Dawn Weaks 🎧 Episode Referenced: Chad Brooks Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/ Supporting Sponsors: Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer SEO / Keywords Kory Wilcoxson, Erin Cash, Thriving Church book, Thriving Congregations, mainline Protestant churches, church decline, faithful congregations, mission and vision, church leadership, pastoral leadership, Disciples of Christ, Lexington Theological Seminary, fear vs mission, Christian formation, Future Christian Pod

In this year-end episode, Loren Richmond Jr. and Martha Tatarnic reflect on leadership, vulnerability, and the pressures pastors are carrying into the new year. They discuss how leaders navigate vulnerability in public roles, including the challenge of knowing what to share, what to hold privately, and how unresolved pain can unintentionally shape preaching and leadership. The conversation addresses the tension between honesty and responsibility, especially when leaders are still processing their own questions or struggles. Loren and Martha also talk about spiritual practices that have become increasingly important to them, particularly shared prayer and the Daily Office as grounding rhythms amid institutional anxiety and uncertainty. They reflect on how decline, fatigue, and pressure to perform can distort leadership, and why steadiness and formation matter when outcomes are unclear. Topics include: Vulnerability and disclosure in pastoral leadership The difference between honesty and oversharing Prayer and the Daily Office as stabilizing practices Institutional anxiety and leadership pressure Leading faithfully without clear outcomes 👉 Subscribe to the Future Christian Podcast for ongoing conversations about leadership, theology, and the future of the church. Mentioned Resources: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/ Supporting Sponsors: Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer SEO / Keywords Loren Richmond Jr., Martha Tatarnic, church leadership, pastoral leadership, vulnerability in leadership, spiritual practices, Daily Office, prayer rhythms, Christian formation, ministry fatigue, church decline, institutional anxiety, faith and leadership, pastors and ministry leaders, Future Christian Podcast