For The Love With Jen Hatmaker Podcast

Description:What do we do when the world feels like too much? When the headlines won’t let up, when grief and uncertainty sit heavy in our bodies, when we’re carrying more than we ever thought we could—how do we keep going without numbing out or falling apart? This week, Jen sits down with beloved writer and friend Shannan Martin to talk about her new book Counterweights, a tender, practical guide for living with hope in a heavy world. At the center of Shannan’s work is a deceptively simple idea: when life gets heavy, we don’t eliminate the weight—we learn to carry something equally weighty in the other hand. Not balance. Not denial. But both/and. Together, Jen and Shannan explore what it means to hold grief and joy at the same time, to resist despair without turning away from reality, and to find steady ground in the middle of it all. They talk about community as survival, faith that evolves and expands, and the small, ordinary moments that become lifelines when everything feels overwhelming. This conversation is a fitting close to our Wilderness & Wonder exploration—because if the wilderness strips us down to what’s real, Shannan helps us ask: what will hold us up now? If you’ve been feeling stretched thin, worn down, or just plain tired of carrying it all alone, this episode is for you. Thought-provoking Quotes: “Now, what are the things that are keeping me going? For me, it’s clawing for those little tiny moments where we can. I need to see myself take care of myself.” – Shannan Martin “We have to carry a lot of really heavy things in one hand. We don't choose these things. We would never have asked for them. And we can't just put them down. We don't have control over them. We can't just set them aside. So how do we carry these heavy things? We fill the other hand with heavy goodness.” – Shannan Martin “The world feels catastrophic right now. My bowl of curry for lunch cannot cancel that out. There's no amount of beautiful sunsets that can cancel out a diagnosis that nobody wants or these heavy, heavy things that we are tasked with carrying because balance is impossible.” – Shannan Martin “When wholeness is our goal, beauty is our emergency.” – Shannan Martin “Anytime I can disrupt the algorithm, I feel it in my body.” – Shannan Martin “The abundant life is not getting all the things we ever wanted. The abundant life is you get this and this and the task now is to figure out how to carry it.” – Shannan Martin Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Counterweights: An Essential Practice for Holding Hope in a Heavy World by Shannan Martin - https://amzn.to/4sRdTRZ David Chang - https://www.instagram.com/davidchang/ 7: An Experimental Mutiny Against Excess by Jen Hatmaker Rainer Maria Rilke - https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poets/rainer-maria-rilke Sara Miles - https://sara-miles.squarespace.com/bio Shannan Martin Book Tour - https://www.shannanmartin.com/counterweights-events Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.shannanmartin.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/shannanwrites/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/shannan.garbermartin Substack - https://www.shannanmartin.com/newsletter Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today we are thrilled to introduce you to a voice we think can really help us navigate some of the big life questions we’re facing right now: Suzy Welch. Have you ever wondered, “What should I do with my life?” Or, “Should I stay or should I go?” Or, “Is there anyone out there who actually tells the freaking truth about life and work today, but also does not leave me in despair?” Wonder no more! The “Becoming You” podcast has arrived, hosted by Suzy Welch, the business journalist-turned-professor at the helm of NYU’s wildly popular self-discovery class by the same name. A three New York Times best-seller and frequent contributor to the Today Show and the Wall Street Journal, Professor Welch is considered a leading expert on decision-making, and the discovery and pursuit of authentic purpose. Join Suzy every week to laugh, learn, get riled up, get calmed down, and basically get closer to becoming you, joyfully, in this crazy, upside-down, scary, messy, and altogether beautiful world we share. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:Sometimes a conversation lands so gently—and so powerfully—that it deserves another moment in the light. In this encore episode, Jen revisits her conversation with poet, writer, and visual artist David Gate, whose work explores themes of care, community, and spiritual resilience. Jen first discovered David the way so many of us discover the words that change us: late at night on Instagram, stumbling across a poem that made her stop mid-scroll and immediately send it to six friends. That was the beginning of a quiet fandom that eventually turned into this conversation—one that felt less like an interview and more like sitting in the presence of someone who has learned how to notice beauty in hard places. David’s work—including his collection A Rebellion of Care—is rooted in the radical idea that tenderness, attention, and compassion are not small acts. They are resistance. They are survival. They are a way through the wilderness. Together, Jen and David explore the ways language can become a lifeline during difficult seasons. They talk about the courage of softness in a harsh world, the sacred practice of paying attention, and how poetry can give us words for things we thought we had to carry alone. This conversation sits right at the intersection: the wilderness of grief, uncertainty, and fatigue—and the wonder that still insists on growing in the cracks. Thought-provoking Quotes: “I did not want to have an email job and I did not want to be in meetings that could have been emails. I did not want to be on Slack. I just didn't want that to be what I was spending my time doing. I loved caring for people, and I loved creating and writing, and I got to do that within the church world.” – David Gate “It’s a constant battle to speak the truth. Even things we all know It can be difficult to say, if it's not something that is normally said, and it's not something that is normally expressed, so you have to fight for that and you have to fight for your experience of the truth. You have to fight for your story. You have to fight for all of that.” – David Gate “I think it's very, very difficult for men to reach for emotional honesty because everything tells you that you're failing if you do that. But it's the most important work right now. And so much of what men are actually looking for in this world, intimacy, a sense of place, a sense of belonging, companionship, adventure, excitement, is on the other side of reaching for that emotional honesty.” – David Gate Resources Mentioned in This Episode: A Rebellion of Care: Poems and Essays by David Gate - https://amzn.to/4jjf87X Good Soil: The Education of an Accidental Farmhand by Jeff Chu - https://amzn.to/3GnS21w Cultivating Belonging and Evolving Faith with Jeff Chu - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/cultivating-belonging-and-evolving-faith-with-jeff-chu/ Sarah Bessey - https://www.sarahbessey.com/ Armando Veve, Illustrator - https://www.instagram.com/armandoveve/ Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/3YHKgpw Sinners film (2025) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt31193180/ Malaprop's Bookstore, Asheville - https://www.malaprops.com/ Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.davidgatepoet.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/davidgatepoet/ Substack - https://substack.com/@davidgatepoet Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:Today’s bonus episode is a joy from start to finish. We’re sitting down with treasured friend Anne Lamott—beloved writer, teacher, and spiritual guide—whose voice has shaped how so many of us think about faith, truth, writing, and what it means to be human on the page. Anne returns to For the Love to talk about her upcoming book, Good Writing, co-written with her husband, journalist and editor Neal Allen. While Neal couldn’t join us today, this conversation is very much about the shared work they created together—a book that isn’t chasing polish or perfection, but clarity, honesty, and respect for the reader. Good Writing is part craft guide, part philosophy of living. Written in alternating voices, it blends Anne’s signature warmth, humor, and spiritual insight with Neal’s journalistic precision and discipline. Together, they explore what makes sentences work, how voice is formed, why ego gets in the way, and why clarity is not just a stylistic choice—but an act of generosity. In this intimate and often funny conversation, Jen and Amy talk with Anne about what it was like to co-write a book so closely, what collaboration revealed about trust and restraint, and how writing—at its best—is a relationship. They dig into voice and ego, bad sentences and letting go, rhythm and revision, and why removing what doesn’t serve the sentence can feel like both grief and grace. But as always with Anne, the conversation goes deeper than craft. This episode explores writing as a way of being in the world—how attention, humility, and courage shape not only our sentences, but our lives. If you’ve ever loved Bird by Bird, wrestled with your inner critic, or longed to tell the truth with a little more care—this conversation is for you. Thought-provoking Quotes: “I only have to do today, today.” – Anne Lamott “We write because we try to tell the truth. We try to share our experience, strength and hope.” – Anne Lamott “Say what you mean. Mean what you say. And don’t say it mean.” – Anne Lamott Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Traveling Mercies: Some Thoughts on Faith by Anne Lamott - https://amzn.to/4qLZRQR Anne Lamott on Faith, Writing, and Radical Self-Love - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/bonus/anne-lamott-on-faith-writing-and-radical-self-love-2/ Neal Allen - https://www.shapesoftruth.com/ Good Writing: 36 Ways to Improve Your Sentences by Neal Allen and Anne Lamott - https://amzn.to/3NMoKNP Bird by Bird: Some Instructions on Writing and Life by Anne Lamott - https://amzn.to/4t7FteL Somehow: Thoughts on Love by Anne Lamott - https://amzn.to/3Z4Nd3r Stanley Tucci on the For the Love podcast - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/stanley-tucci-food-memories-and-emotions/ Amy’s Full of Microplastics and Existential Dread Sweatshirt - https://www.threadless.com/shop/@dinomike/design/full-of-microplastics/womens/sweatshirt Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/4rlv3Gz Jessica Mitford - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_Mitford Tyler Merritt - https://thetylermerrittproject.com/ I Take My Coffee Black: Reflections on Tupac, Musical Theater, Faith, and Being Black in America by Tyler Merritt - https://amzn.to/49N1ms8 Better Days: Tame Your Inner Critic by Neal Allen - https://amzn.to/3LTEVs9 A Writing Room - https://awritingroom.com/ Guest’s Links: Website - https://awritingroom.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/annelamott/ Twitter - https://x.com/ANNELAMOTT?lang=en Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/AnneLamott/ Substack - https://annelamott.substack.com/ Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:If parenting has you oscillating between “I’ve got this” and “I need to lie down immediately,” press play. Today, we’re stepping into one of the most humbling arenas for compassion and grace: your own living room. Because fierce compassion isn’t just for coworkers and complicated relatives—it’s also for the tiny humans melting down over the wrong color cup or the soccer uniform that didn’t get washed in time for game day. And it’s for YOU, standing there, wondering how you got so activated over this nonsense. Jen and Amy are talking to Mandy Grass—nationally recognized Board-Certified Behavior Analyst, founder of The Family Behaviorist, former teacher, and mom in a blended family of seven kids (ages four to sixteen). Yes, seven. Her house is less “quiet retreat” and more “ongoing behavioral case study.” The data is… robust. For nearly two decades, Mandy has been translating behavior science into practical, no-guilt tools for families. Her central message feels radical in a culture obsessed with control: kids’ behavior is communication—not a moral failure. And neither is your exhaustion. In this conversation, we talk about: What Mandy actually hears when parents say, “We’ve tried everything” How shame and blame sneak into parenting—and how to gently escort them out Why so much of parenting work begins with the parent, not the kid (I know. We had feelings about this too.) And one tiny shift you can make tonight that will cool the temperature at home (no sticker charts required) Here’s the truth: we cannot regulate our kids if we are operating at DEFCON 1 ourselves. Fierce compassion means holding boundaries without losing your humanity. It means seeing your child clearly—and offering yourself the same grace when you inevitably lose it over bedtime negotiations. Mandy also shares about her new podcast, The Behavior Blueprint, a grounded, step-by-step guide for parents who are tired of quick fixes and ready for something that actually works in real life—not just on Instagram. It’s equal parts instruction, compassion, and “oh thank God, it’s not just me.” Take a breath. Your child isn’t the problem. You aren’t either. And that might be the fiercest compassion of all. Thought-provoking Quotes: "In behavior analysis, every behavior has a function –attention, escape, access to something tangible, and an automatic or a sensory function."– Mandy Grass “Do I have ADHD, anxiety, or am I just a mom?” – Mandy Grass “Our default is take away, take away, take away. And really what we want to do is reinforce the behavior we want to see more of.” – Mandy Grass “You’re not gonna get it right every time, but at least it doesn't feel like you have no idea what to do.”– Mandy Grass Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Behavior Blueprint podcast with Mandy Grass - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-behavior-blueprint-with-mandy-grass/id1872526999 Too Much Junk on Your Social Media Feeds? I'll Show You How to Clean It Up - https://www.pcmag.com/how-to/too-much-junk-on-your-social-media-feeds-ill-show-you-how-to-clean-it-up?test_uuid=04IpBmWGZleS0I0J3epvMrC&test_variant=A Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.thefamilybehaviorist.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/thefamilybehaviorist Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61560942080087 Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@thefamilybehaviorist TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@thefamilybehaviorist Podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-behavior-blueprint-with-mandy-grass/id1872526999 Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:What if you were handed a single piece of information that could change everything you think you know about your life? For this Jen Hatmaker Book Club episode, Jen sits down with novelist Nikki Erlick, author of the wildly imaginative and deeply human novel The Measure—a story that asks one unsettling question: What would you do if you knew exactly how long you had to live? In The Measure, every adult in the world receives a small wooden box containing a string that reveals the length of their life. What follows isn’t chaos for chaos’ sake, but something far more intimate: marriages tested, dreams deferred or pursued, fears amplified, and love redefined. It’s a novel about mortality, yes—but even more so about meaning, choice, and how we show up for one another when certainty is stripped away. Jen and Nikki talk about the origin of this unforgettable premise, the emotional weight of writing about death in order to illuminate life, and why the book resonates so deeply with readers navigating grief, anxiety, hope, and big unanswered questions. They explore what The Measure reveals about how we value time, how fear can quietly shape our decisions, and what it might look like to live more honestly—even without guarantees. Whether you’ve already read along with the book club or are just encountering this story for the first time, this conversation invites you to reflect on your own “measure”—and to consider how love, courage, and presence might matter more than the number of days themselves. This episode is tender, thought-provoking, and quietly life-altering. Come for the story. Stay for the questions it leaves you asking long after the last page. Thought-provoking Quotes: “I was preoccupied with these big questions in life, the things that don't have easy answers or any answers at all. Why do people have different fates? Why do bad things happen to good people? How much power do we actually have over our lives? That inspired me.” – Nikki Erlick “My process felt like people knocking on the door to my brain at all times, being like, what about me? What about me? I would be an interesting story too. I had to answer the first couple of knocks and bring these new characters in. Once I hit eight or 10, I felt like readers can't handle any more than this.” – Nikki Erlick “I wanted to pull on everything, for every community that has been marginalized to make this experience feel real for the people in this book.” – Nikki Erlick “The one thing that doesn't go out of style is hope.”– Nikki Erlick Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Measure: A Novel by Nikki Erlick - https://amzn.to/3OmiJaK The Poppy Fields: A Novel by Nikki Erlick - https://amzn.to/49ZxdGf Allen Bradley, author - https://alanbradleyauthor.com/ Sandwich: A Novel by Catherine Newman - https://amzn.to/4a0bOwB Catherine Newman on the For the Love podcast - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/august-2025-catherine-newmans-sandwich/ Wreck by Catherine Newman - https://amzn.to/4bvUy3o This Is Not About Us by Allegra Goodman - https://amzn.to/4qnGIE3 Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.nikkierlick.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/nikkierlick/ Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:Many of us were taught that desire is dangerous—something to manage, suppress, or feel ashamed of. But what if desire isn’t the problem at all? What if it’s not just about sex or attraction, but about the places we feel most alive? Today, Jen and Amy sit down with FTL fan-favorite Jay Stringer, a licensed therapist and author whose work helps people understand the deeper stories shaping their desires—especially the ones we’ve been taught to hide, or silence. Drawing from his powerful new book Desire, Jay reframes desire not as a moral failure or impulse to eliminate, but as a signal worth listening to—one that points us toward what formed us, what wounded us, and what we are still longing for beneath the surface. Jay shifts the focus from behavior modification to understanding the story behind desire—for intimacy, success, escape, creativity, or belonging—shaped by early attachment, trauma, and unmet needs. The conversation moves from "What's wrong with me?" to "What happened to me?" turning desire from shame into meaning. This is not a conversation about labeling or fixing yourself. It’s about understanding yourself—how your story formed you, and how listening to what brings you to life can lead toward freedom, wholeness, and deeper connection. This episode also serves as the opening doorway into our Wilderness & Wonder series. In a season when many of us are navigating uncertainty—spiritually, relationally, or internally—this episode grounds us in the idea that exploration isn’t aimlessness, but formation. That the wilderness can be a teacher. And that desire itself may be one of the quiet guides helping us stay awake, curious, and present as we learn how to live inside the questions. This is a gentle conversation, but it’s also a brave one. And we’re really glad you’re here for it. Thought-provoking Quotes: “Desire is a navigational term from Latin that means ‘lack of a star’. I'm looking into the skies, trying to find this new direction. How do I get home in the midst of all this wandering, all this misery that I feel like I'm in?” – Jay Stringer “When did you last feel alive? When did you feel connected to your body, connected to others? That's the essence of desire that we're trying to get back to.” – Jay Stringer “The antidote to shame is really developing some curiosity for it.” – Jay Stringer Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Harper’s Magazine | Who Goes Nazi? by Dorothy Thompson - https://harpers.org/archive/1941/08/who-goes-nazi/ Desire: The Longings Inside Us and the New Science of How We Love, Heal, and Grow by Jay Stringer - https://amzn.to/4buLADD Unwanted: How Sexual Brokenness Reveals Our Way to Healing by Jay Stringer - https://www.amazon.com/Unwanted-Sexual-Brokenness-Reveals-Healing/dp/1631466720 Annie Dillard - https://www.anniedillard.com/ Brené Brown - https://brenebrown.com/ Alex Honnold climbs Taipei 101 skyscraper without ropes - https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Living/video/alex-honnold-climbs-taipei-101-skyscraper-ropes-129537771 Bill Plotkin - https://www.animas.org/about-us/our-founder/ Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/3LTorjM Stanzas from the Grande Chartreuse by Matthew Arnold - https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/43605/stanzas-from-the-grande-chartreuse Jon Batiste - jonbatiste.com Sarah Bessey - https://www.sarahbessey.com/ Dacher Keltner, PhD - https://www.dacherkeltner.com/ Guest’s Links: Website - https://jay-stringer.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jay_stringer_/ Twitter - https://x.com/_jaystringer Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/JayStringerUnwanted# Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:What does it look like to strive ardently for justice and equality without losing yourself in the process? Today, Jen sits down with Norah O’Donnell—award-winning journalist, anchor, and managing editor of the CBS Evening News—for a conversation about courage, compassion, and the women who have quietly shaped the arc of American history. Norah’s new book, We the Women: The Hidden Heroes Who Shaped America, uncovers the stories of women who refused to disappear: printers and poets, doctors and intellectuals, community builders and policymakers, women who risked safety, status, and belonging to tell the truth, expand freedom, and insist that dignity belongs to everyone. In this episode, we reflect on what these lives reveal about compassion—not as sentiment, but as action. Jen, Amy, and Norah talk about the indomitable women who made justice visible, who challenged power without losing their moral center, and who built systems of care that outlived them. The conversation also turns inward, as Norah reflects on her own career as one of the most trusted voices in American broadcast journalism, regularly asking hard questions in public spaces and of people in positions of power. This is a conversation about fierce compassion—the kind that tells the truth, draws boundaries, builds community, and refuses erasure. It’s an invitation to remember the women who came before us, and to consider how we might carry their courage forward in our own time. Thought-provoking Quotes: “I think that journalists are doing an incredible job right now under really tough circumstances. But they're bringing to light what the power of the federal government, what the power of state governments and others are doing, and allowing the electorate to be informed so that they can get involved, they can vote, they can be energized, and each of us can be part of this great American democracy.” – Norah O’Donnell “I do believe we need more women in government and more women in positions of power.” - Norah O’Donnell “I’m in the business of information not affirmation.” – Norah O’Donnell “Women have been at the forefront of helping to bend that arc towards justice. Women have crashed through the educational glass ceiling. More women get degrees than men. Women have the right to vote and they do vote in greater numbers than men. So when are we gonna see this tipping point? I keep waiting for that in my lifetime.” – Norah O’Donnell Resources Mentioned in This Episode: We the Women: The Hidden Heroes Who Shaped America by Norah O’Donnell - https://amzn.to/4keE2Hb We The Women Tour - https://www.wethewomenbook.com/about CBS News | Norah O’Donnell - https://www.cbsnews.com/team/norah-odonnell/ The Six Triple Eight | Netflix - https://www.netflix.com/title/81590591 Mary McLeod Bethune Statue - https://www.aoc.gov/explore-capitol-campus/art/mary-mcleod-bethune-statue The Declaration of Sentiments - https://www.nps.gov/wori/learn/historyculture/declaration-of-sentiments.htm Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.cbsnews.com/team/norah-odonnell/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/norahodonnell/ Twitter - https://x.com/NorahODonnell Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/norahodonnell/ TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@norahodonnell?lang=en Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: Description: What happens when the life you’ve been managing no longer fits? Jen Hatmaker sits down with Nedra Glover Tawwab, Emily Nagoski, Kobe Campbell, and Kate Bowler for an honest conversation about what it really means to wake up in midlife. Together, they explore where awakening often shows up first—our relationships, bodies, mental health, and faith. This isn’t about fixing yourself. It’s about noticing what’s shifting, understanding why it feels disruptive, and realizing you’re not alone. From boundaries and burnout to anxiety, trauma, body shame, and faith after certainty, this episode offers language and clarity for women navigating midlife change with courage. If you’ve ever thought, Something’s changing—and I don’t know what to do with it, this conversation is for you. Thought-provoking Quotes: “You’re not broken. You’re paying attention.” — Jen Hatmaker “Midlife clarity isn’t cruelty. It’s information.” — Nedra Glover Tawwab “Healing doesn’t mean you stop feeling. It means your responses finally make sense.” — Kobe Campbell “Anxiety can bring clarity—but it’s not meant to be the fuel forever.” — Kobe Campbell “You don’t complete stress by thinking it through. You complete it by letting it move through your body.” — Emily Nagoski “Certainty falling away doesn’t mean faith is gone. It means it’s growing up.” — Kate Bowler Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Set Boundaries, Find Peace: A Guide to Reclaiming Yourself by Nedra Glover Tawwab – https://amzn.to/4rhSzofThe Balancing Act: Creating Healthy Dependency and Connection Without Losing Yourself by Nedra Glover Tawwab – https://amzn.to/46cF4hgCome As You Are: Revised and Updated: The Surprising New Science That Will Transform Your Sex Life by Emily Nagoski – https://www.amazon.com/Come-You-Are-Surprising-Transform/dp/1982165316/ Burnout: The Secret to Unlocking the Stress Cycle by Emily Nagoski – https://amzn.to/3MgTXIK Why Am I Like This?: How to Break Cycles, Heal from Trauma, and Restore Your Faith by Kobe Campbell – https://amzn.to/4qIMqR9 Joyful, Anyway by Kate Bowler – https://amzn.to/3MdyfW3 Everything Happens podcast with Kate Bowler – https://katebowler.com/podcasts/ Nedra’s Links: Website - https://www.nedratawwab.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/nedratawwab/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/nedratawwab/- Substack - https://nedratawwab.substack.com/ Podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/you-need-to-hear-this-with-nedra-tawwab/id1686288228 Emily’s Links: Website - https://www.emilynagoski.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/enagoski/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/emilynagoskiphd/ TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@emilynagoski Substack - https://substack.com/@emilynagoski Podcast - https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/come-as-you-are Kobe’s Links: Website - https://kobecampbell.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/kobecampbell_/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/TheKobeCampbell/ Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@TheKobeCampbell Substack - https://substack.com/@kobecampbell Podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-healing-circle-podcast-with-kobe-campbell/id1448504061 Kate’s Links: Website - https://katebowler.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/katecbowler/ Twitter - https://x.com/katecbowler Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/katecbowler Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCf8m7lNdR7YVieU0muCg5cg TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@katecbowler Pinterest - https://www.pinterest.com/katecbowler/ Substack - https://katebowler.substack.com/ Podcast - https://katebowler.com/podcasts/ Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: Jen revisits this fan favorite episode with Mel Robbins. Buckle up, listeners. It was only a matter of time before our paths crossed with Mel Robbins, one of the most respected experts on change and motivation in the zeitgeist, and today is that day. Known for being the host of the #1 ranking education podcast in the world, bringing deeply relatable topics, tactical advice, tools, and compelling conversations to her audiences, Jen and Amy spend today’s hour diving into Mel’s “Let Them” theory, which is taking the world by storm, already delivering instant peace and freedom in the lives and relationships of people putting it into practice. Together, they discuss: The difference between “Let Them” and “Let Me” Learning to release the white-knuckle grip we hold over other people’s behavior (and other things beyond our control) Reframing disappointment to view it as a gift (yes, it’s possible!) Repositioning self-worth inward, rather than leaving it dependent on others' opinions. Thought-provoking Quotes: “For a lot of women, we spend so much time upstairs in our heads as people-pleasers and over-analyzers, over-thinking and ruminating, trying to get things perfect. That’s the last place I should be, personally. I need to drop into my body and get out of my head.” – Mel Robbins “People reveal who they are and what they care about through their behavior. Ignore their words. Watch their behavior. Let people be who they are. Let them do what they’re going to do. Focusing on them is not where your power is.” – Mel Robbins “The difference between ‘not my business’ and ‘let them’ is worlds apart. When you say, ‘not my business’, you’re scolding yourself. With, ‘let them’, you’re in the power position because you see what’s happening and are choosing to allow it without allowing it. You’re rising above it.” – Mel Robbins Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Demotivators - https://despair.com/collections/ Effin Birds on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/effinbirds/ Van Morrison - https://www.vanmorrison.com/ No Hard Feelings by the Avett Brothers - https://open.spotify.com/track/0bgQ1hQrpP6ScdBZlDfLE2 Foo Fighters - https://foofighters.com/ DePeche Mode - https://www.depechemode.com/ The Cure - https://www.thecure.com/ Taylor Swift - https://www.taylorswift.com/ The 5 Second Rule: Transform Your Life, Work, and Confidence with Everyday Courage by Mel Robbins - https://amzn.to/427OHwu The Let Them Theory: A Life-Changing Tool That Millions of People Can't Stop Talking About by Mel Robbins - https://amzn.to/4hc53bE The Mel Robbins Podcast - https://www.melrobbins.com/podcast The Four Questions: For Henny Penny and Anybody with Stressful Thoughts by Byron Katie - https://amzn.to/3C7tKXT My Legacy Podcast - https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-my-legacy-podcast-255793246/ Man’s Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl - https://amzn.to/4ajbyaz Dr. Stuart Ablon - https://www.stuartablon.com/ The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck: A Counterintuitive Approach to Living a Good Life by Mark Manson - https://amzn.to/3PCqxmi Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.melrobbins.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/melrobbins/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/melrobbins Twitter - https://x.com/melrobbins Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/melrobbins TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@melrobbins Podcast - https://www.melrobbins.com/podcast/ Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

When Listeners Say, “Me Too”: Finding Familiarity in Shared Stories – A Listener Voicemail Episode Description:In this special listener voicemail episode, Jen and Amy turn the mic outward—listening closely to the voices, stories, and wisdom of the community that makes this show what it is. From reflections sparked by our Wake Up Call season to deeply personal responses to Jen’s book Awake, these messages trace a powerful throughline: what happens when we begin to tell the truth about our lives—and make space for who we’re becoming. Listeners share how conversations with Lee C. Camp, John Fugelsang, Melani Sanders, and Chrissy King stirred something awake in them, naming long-held questions around faith, body, identity, and courage. Others call in to reflect on the uncanny resonance of Awake, beginning again and again with the same line: “Jen, our stories are very similar.” This episode is tender, funny, and honest—a reminder that none of us are doing this work alone. It’s about waking up, letting go, finding language for the ache, and choosing what comes next—together. If you’ve ever wondered whether your voice matters here, this episode is your answer. Thought-provoking Quotes: “Our stories are very similar—and hearing that out loud made me realize I’m not behind. I’m just in it.” – FTL Listener “I didn’t know how much I needed someone to say, ‘You’re allowed to change your mind,’ until this season.” – FTL Listener “That episode felt like someone finally put words to the questions I’ve been carrying quietly.” – FTL Listener “Something in me relaxed when I heard someone else say it first.” – FTL Listener Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Beyond Words: Listening to a Hidden Community — Ky Dickens and The Telepathy Tapes - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/unlocking-the-secrets-of-consciousness-and-telepathy-ky-dickens-and-the-telepathy-tapes/ The Telepathy Tapes podcast - https://thetelepathytapes.com/ Rick Rubin - https://x.com/RickRubin Elizabeth Gilbert - https://www.elizabethgilbert.com/ Human Flourishing in a Distracted World: Theologian Lee C. Camp Offers a Wake Up Call To Living Well - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/human-flourishing-in-a-distracted-world-theologian-lee-c-camp-offers-a-wake-up-call-to-living-well/ Love Over Dominance: John Fugelsang on the Future of Christianity - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/love-over-dominance-john-fugelsang-on-the-future-of-christianity/ Social Media Sensation Melani Sanders Reminds Us That We Are Enough and We Do Not Care - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/social-media-sensation-melani-sanders-reminds-us-that-we-are-enough-and-we-do-not-care/ Wake Up Call: Your Body Was Never the Problem with Body Liberation Advocate, Chrissy King - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/wake-up-call-your-body-was-never-the-problem-with-body-liberation-advocate-chrissy-king/ Dr. Mary Claire Haver - https://www.instagram.com/drmaryclaire Jen Hatmaker Book Club - https://shop.jenhatmaker.com/collections/book-club Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: This month in the Jen Hatmaker Book Club, Jen is joined by novelist Eliana Ramage to talk about her stunning debut, To the Moon and Back—a book that is as page-turny as it is tender, and as expansive as it is rooted. Jen and Eliana trace the actual arc of this book—how it began with an unforgettable spark of an idea at Dartmouth (about an “astronaut girl” who shows us that our stories aren’t static, and neither are our people) and how, over more than a decade, that idea became a novel about ambition, belonging, identity, and the complicated, beautiful gravity of connection. In this conversation, Jen and Eliana explore a story centered on a young woman unraveling in the aftermath of loss, navigating complicated relationships, spiritual longing, and the quiet ache of wanting more than the life she’s been handed. They dig into the women at the center of the novel—the ones you’ll root for, the ones who will frustrate you (hi, ambition), and the ones who will linger long after you close the cover—and they unpack why the ending matters: not because it ties everything into neat bows, but because it honors what’s true. Because in real life, healing doesn’t land with fireworks. It lands with honesty. With restraint. With the choice to keep loving, even when certainty has slipped through our fingers. This is a conversation about grieving honestly, questioning inherited beliefs, and staying awake to your own life. It’s about learning that connection matters more than performance—and trusting that the long arc of love and healing is still unfolding. Whether you’re reading along with the book club or simply craving a thoughtful, soulful conversation to start the new year, this episode invites you to slow down, feel deeply, and remember: even in loss, even in doubt, we are still reaching—toward connection, toward each other, and back to ourselves. Thought-provoking Quotes: “This is a story about women who are trying to understand who they are and move forward together after making some mistakes. That's where I definitely am right now. And if I could just finish this one thing that has been so hard for so many years, then it would be the first time I had done something that I could be really proud of.” – Eliana Ramage “I think in real life, you don't need to know that everything is all gonna be figured out at once. You need to land the plane on what matters. I don't think any of us, for our own lives, feel like we have that written out. And so there's some wiggle room on where we could go next, I think.”– Eliana Ramage “It’s become kind of a ritual to ask myself, can you believe that you're doing this job because your wildest dreams came true?”– Eliana Ramage Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Avid Reader Press - https://avidreaderpress.com/ Fancy Lunch - https://tinyurl.com/3uyuxryf Joyride: A Memoir by Susan Orlean - https://amzn.to/49vTrhC The Uncool: A Memoir by Cameron Crowe - https://amzn.to/3LFmd7n Lily King - https://lilykingbooks.com/ Reese Witherspoon book club pick - September 2025 - https://reesesbookclub.com/book/to-the-moon-and-back/ Mid-America All Indian Center, Wichita, KS - https://www.theindianmuseum.org/ Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/4swRPg9 Parnassus Books - https://parnassusbooks.net/ Ring of Salt: A Memoir of Finding Home and Hope on the Wild Coast of Ireland by Betsy Cornwell - https://amzn.to/3Z9qtPu I’ll Tell You When I’m Home by Hala Alyan - https://amzn.to/4bof7yr Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.elianaramage.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/elianaramage/ Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:Today we’re talking about something most of us sideline, postpone, or avoid entirely until life forces our hand: MONEY. This is a topic our host Jen Hatmaker knows all too well. For years, Jen let her then husband handle all of the bills, the budgeting, the taxes, the investments, everything. When she walked through divorce in midlife, she had to start from zero. It was humbling, terrifying, and ultimately deeply empowering. We’re thrilled to bring you today’s guest: Jean Chatzky, bestselling author, Emmy-winning financial journalist, CEO of HerMoney, and host of the hugely popular HerMoney Podcast. Jean is one of America’s most trusted voices on personal finance, with decades spent breaking down complicated concepts into simple, actionable steps—especially for women who have historically been excluded from financial conversations. In this discussion, we go straight to the questions so many of us have but don’t know how to ask: Where do you even start if finances feel overwhelming? How do you build confidence around money after years of letting someone else handle it? What does stability actually look like in midlife, especially for women navigating divorce, caregiving, career transitions, or reinvention? We talk about the mechanics of getting your financial life organized, and the emotional stories women carry around worth, fear, and permission. Jean offers grounding guidance you can act on today—whether it’s tackling debt, starting to invest, or finally creating some safety and agency around your money. If you’ve ever felt late to the financial game, intimidated by jargon, or unsure how to build security for the next chapter—this episode will meet you with compassion, clarity, and courage. Jean is a generous teacher, and we cannot wait for you to learn from her. Thought-provoking Quotes: “This is one of those things that we absolutely can blame on our parents because we weren't raised in homes necessarily where women took the lead on finances. And we tend to model what we grew up with.” – Jean Chatzky “Women are an army of perfectionists and many of us don't like to do things until we know that we can do them correctly. And with money, there are some things where I can give you an answer. But if you ask me what's the best stock or what's the best mutual fund or what's the best investment strategy, I can give you an answer that's worked historically, but I can't give you a perfect answer. And a lot of us are just not comfortable with that.” – Jean Chatzky “I've been around a lot of people who've made a lot of money mistakes that are solvable. The one that's not solvable is not starting, because if you ask any older woman, what they wish they had done differently where their money is concerned, a hundred of them are gonna tell you, I wish I had started investing earlier.” – Jean Chatzky Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Jean Chatzky’s HerMoney Podcast – https://hermoney.com/t/podcasts/ From Financially In the Dark to Fully In Control: Jen Hatmaker’s Wake-Up Call – https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/from-financially-in-the-dark-to-fully-in-control-jen/id1098802558?i=1000740622343 Monarch money management app – https://www.monarch.com/ Rocket Money –https://www.rocketmoney.com/ Openbank High Yield Savings account – https://secureapply.openbank.us/savings/intro/welcome Guest’s Links: Website - https://hermoney.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jeanchatzky Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/JeanChatzky/ TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@jeanchatzky Podcast - https://hermoney.com/t/podcasts/ Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:Many of us were taught that strength looks like independence. Don’t need too much. Don’t ask for help. Don’t lean on others. And then—somewhere along the way—we find ourselves lonely, exhausted, or quietly resentful, wondering why connection feels so hard and so heavy at the same time. We want closeness, but we’re afraid of needing too much. We want support, but we don’t know how to ask for it without losing ourselves. Today’s guest is someone who has helped millions of people name that tension—and find a gentler, healthier way forward. Nedra Glover Tawwab is a licensed therapist, relationship expert, and New York Times bestselling author of Set Boundaries, Find Peace and Drama Free. With more than fifteen years of clinical experience, she has become one of the most trusted voices in modern mental health, helping people navigate boundaries, attachment, emotional health, and sustainable connection in real, everyday life. Nedra ‘s work consistently meets people with clarity, compassion, and deep respect for how hard relationships can be. Her new book, The Balancing Act, invites us to rethink what healthy connection actually looks like—not as hyper-independence or over-functioning, but as learning how to depend on one another without disappearing in the process. In this conversation, we talk about: - The major attachment styles and how they quietly shape our relationships- Why so many of us confuse independence with emotional health - The dependency spectrum—and how to recognize where we’re over- or under-functioning - When closeness crosses into enmeshment, and how to find your way back - Gentle, practical first steps toward healthy dependency and asking for help We honestly could not think of a better person to help us wake up in the area of mental health. This conversation is tender, honest, and deeply freeing—and it offers language for places you may have felt stuck, tired, or alone for a long time. You are not broken. You are learning how to connect. Thought-provoking Quotes: ★ “You can be conflict-avoidant and peace-positive.” – Nedra Tawwab ★ “We have to allow people to exist as they are. And sometimes that's not in the same way as we exist.” – Nedra Tawwab ★ “The connection you’re seeking is on the other side of your discomfort.” – Nedra Tawwab Resources Mentioned in This Episode: ➢ The Balancing Act: Creating Healthy Dependency and Connection Without Losing Yourself by Nedra Tawwab – https://amzn.to/3Z77GEC ➢ Set Boundaries, Find Peace: A Guide to Reclaiming Yourself by Nedra Tawwab - https://amzn.to/49q8zg8 ➢ Drama Free: A Guide to Managing Unhealthy Family Relationships by Nedra Tawwab - https://amzn.to/4b3cSkh ➢ Nedra’s Quizzes - https://www.nedratawwab.com/quizzes Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.nedratawwab.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/nedratawwab/?hl=en Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/nedratawwab/ Substack - https://nedratawwab.substack.com/ Podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/you-need-to-hear-this-with-nedra-tawwab/id1686288228 Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:Sometimes a wake up call doesn’t arrive as a crisis. Sometimes it arrives as a quiet realization: the way I’m living isn’t actually working. In this encore episode, we revisit a powerful conversation with James Clear, bestselling author of Atomic Habits, whose work has helped millions rethink how real, lasting change actually happens. Not through willpower, reinvention, or overnight transformation—but through the small, often invisible choices we make every day. This conversation is a wake up call to the myth of “someday”, a wake up call to waiting for motivation before we act, and a wake up call to the belief that big change requires big drama. James breaks down why habits are less about self-discipline and more about identity, environment, and systems—and how the patterns we repeat, often unconsciously, are shaping our lives for better or worse. Together, we explore how paying attention to what we practice daily can wake us up to the lives we’re actually building. If you’re standing at the edge of change—feeling stuck in patterns you can’t seem to break, exhausted by self-improvement cycles, or longing for a more sustainable way forward—this episode offers a grounded, hopeful reset. Let this be your wake up call to begin again, not perfectly, not dramatically, but honestly, intentionally, and one doable step at a time. Thought-provoking Quotes: “The most powerful change doesn’t happen when you decide to achieve a goal—it happens when you decide to become a different kind of person. Every small habit is a vote for the identity you’re building, and over time those votes add up to who you believe you are.” — James Clear “You do not rise to the level of your goals. You fall to the level of your systems.” — James Clear “If you can get 1% better every day for one year, you’ll end up thirty-seven times better.” — James Clear “Fix the inputs, and the outputs will fix themselves.” — James Clear “The goal isn’t to run a marathon. It’s to become a runner.” — James Clear “Lasting change isn’t about doing something perfectly or dramatically. It’s about showing up consistently in small ways, even when it feels insignificant, because that consistency is what makes transformation inevitable.”— James Clear Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Atomic Habits: An Easy & Proven Way to Build Good Habits & Break Bad Ones by James Clear - https://amzn.to/4pQLrh6 James Clear’s 3-2-1 Newsletter - https://jamesclear.com/3-2-1 Guest’s Links: Website - https://jamesclear.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jamesclear/ Twitter - https://x.com/jamesclear Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/jamesclear Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:This is your wake up call: your body was never the problem. By midlife, so many women are exhausted—not just by life, but by decades of being told to manage, fix, discipline, and override our bodies. Wellness culture promised health and control. What it often delivered was shame, disconnection, and the quiet belief that rest, ease, and joy had to be earned. Today’s conversation asks us to wake up to something different. Chrissy King is a writer, educator, and body liberation advocate whose work exposes the harm baked into diet and fitness culture and offers a radically more honest path forward. One rooted in consent instead of control. Trust instead of punishment. Listening instead of fixing. In this Wake Up Call episode, Chrissy opens our eyes to what happens when we stop treating our bodies like projects and start treating them like partners—especially in midlife, when our bodies are changing and asking us to pay attention. We unpack why rest is a biological need (not a reward), and how relearning how to listen can be a form of liberation. This is a wake up call to the truth we’ve ignored: the body knows. It knows when something isn’t working. It knows when we’re depleted. It knows what it needs next. And when we learn to trust that wisdom—not just individually, but collectively—we don’t just heal our relationship with our bodies, we change the story entirely. If your body has been tapping you on the shoulder, this episode is your invitation to listen. Thought-provoking Quotes: “Society has conditioned women to put all of our value, effort, and energy into being the smallest version of ourselves possible. Then we have to spend the second half of our lives trying to unlearn that.” – Chrissy King “In ancient art, we see these big, beautiful bodies being immortalized and looked at as beautiful. So, how did we get to this point where we're demonizing people in larger bodies?” – Chrissy King “I think falling in love yourself is the most beautiful love story of all time.” - Chrissy King “The focus can't just be, do I feel good in my body? The focus has to be, is anybody in any body able to feel safe and respected and exist in their body free of harm? That's what the modern body positivity movement is really missing.” - Chrissy King “I think that we have to accept what our abilities are today, that what our bodies look like today is what it looks like today and tomorrow could be completely different. Bodies are designed to change.” - Chrissy King Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/4qoLTnZ The Body Liberation Project: How Understanding Racism and Diet Culture Helps Cultivate Joy and Build Collective Freedom by Chrissy King - https://amzn.to/49m6TWn The Body is Not an Apology: The Power of Radical Self-Love by Sonya Renne Taylor - https://amzn.to/3YJyfQ9 Fearing the Black Body: The Racial Origins of Fat Phobia by Dr. Sabrina Strings - https://amzn.to/49rmeoA White Fragility: Why It's So Hard for White People to Talk About Racism by Robin DiAngelo - https://amzn.to/3NyO75z Be The Bridge organization - https://bethebridge.com/ We Were Never Meant to Have Universal Healthcare by Dr. Jessica Knurick - https://drjessicaknurick.substack.com/p/we-were-never-meant-to-have-universal Guest’s Links: Website - https://chrissyking.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/iamchrissyking/ Twitter - https://x.com/iamchrissyking TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@iamchrissyking Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/ChrissyKingFitness/ Substack - https://chrissyking.substack.com/ Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:Today’s guest is someone who instantly made an impression on Jen when they met at a recent Hello Sunshine event in LosAngeles, when she moderated a Shine Away panel with Jen and beloved 9010 star and recent For the Love guest, Jennie Garth. Within five minutes Jen thought, “Okay… she’s one of us.” Warm, sharp, steady — Kanika Chadda-Gupta has this grounding presence that makes a whole room exhale. An award-winning former CNN journalist and producer, Kanika built a thriving career in television news before motherhood rerouted her life in the most profound way. Born in India and raised in the U.S., her story is braided with themes so many of us know intimately: immigration and bicultural identity, the expectations women inherit, the invisible labor we carry, and the endless negotiation between ambition, caregiving, and our own becoming. Today, Kanika is the creator and host of the beloved Total Mom Sense podcast, where she distills her lived experience — raising children while caring for aging parents, navigating mental and emotional load, reinventing purpose in midlife — into practical wisdom for women who are doing it all and feeling all of it. In this conversation, we talk about what happens when life asks us to reevaluate our pace, our priorities, and the stories we’ve been handed about success. We discuss staying rooted inside seasons of huge responsibility, finding yourself in the middle of caregiving, and reclaiming a sense of agency and identity in motherhood and beyond. If you’ve ever felt stretched thin between generations, pulled in every direction, or unsure how to follow your own calling while caring for everyone else — Kanika’s clarity and compassion will feel like a deep breath. This one’s for all of us standing at the intersection of who we were, who we are, and who we’re still becoming. Thought-provoking Quotes: "I like getting the gold star from all of my teachers. I did all the AP classes. I hung out with my teachers at lunchtime. We had open lunch, and it was like you could go to McDonald's, or you could go across the street to the pizza place. But I would go sit with Ms. Townsend, my biology teacher, and just kick it.” – Kanika Chadda-Gupta "It may be, the only headlights that you see heading to the eye of the storm are the first responders and the reporters. And I thought, I want to be in the eye of the storm. I belong here. I need to be here. I need to prove myself. And so then I stayed.” – Kanika Chadda-Gupta "I was most surprised by how your kids will make you face your childhood trauma head on. My dad and I get along great now, but when we were younger, he would say things that really just shot my self-esteem. And those are the first things that come up when my kids do something wrong and I'm like, wow, I gotta reframe." – Kanika Chadda-Gupta Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Hello Sunshine Shine Away Conference 2025 – https://shineaway.hello-sunshine.com/event/eddb3575-ec80-4812-a371-354c900d7cbf/summary Jim Gaffigan, comedian – https://www.jimgaffigan.com/ Mom Brain with Hilaria Baldwin and Daphne Oz - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/mom-brain/id1438292826 Guest’s Links: Website - https://kanikachaddagupta.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/kanikachaddagupta/ Twitter - https://x.com/KanikaChadda Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/kanikachaddagupta/ Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgkOq_AmLsvu6YJsKglQvSw TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@kanikachaddagupta?lang=en Pinterest - https://www.pinterest.com/kanikachaddagupta/ Podcast - https://kanikachaddagupta.com/podcast/ Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:Today, we’re stepping into the candlelit, corseted world of Victorian England with New York Times bestselling author Madeline Martin—a master of emotionally rich, meticulously researched historical fiction. Madeline’s novels (The Last Bookshop in London, The Librarian Spy, The Keeper of Hidden Books) have introduced millions of readers to hidden corners of history where ordinary people wield books as lifelines, rebellion, and hope. Her latest work and our December JHBC pick, The Secret Book Society, is no exception. Set in an era when women were warned that reading could “inflame the imagination,” The Secret Book Society follows Lady Duxbury—a thrice-widowed countess trailed by scandalous whispers—who covertly gathers a small circle of women for tea…and contraband literature. What begins as shared curiosity blooms into a daring underground society where women read the stories they’ve been forbidden, claim a power they’ve been denied, and build the kind of sisterhood that can spark a quiet revolution. In this conversation, we pull back the velvet curtain on: how real Victorian restrictions inspired her fictional rebellion the archival rabbit holes that uncovered surprising truths about women, reading, and resistance the power of “found family” in times of surveillance, judgment, and constraint why stories become sanctuaries when the world demands silence Thought-provoking Quotes: “Reading can really provide such lightness in dark times.” – Madeline Martin “Every book that I've written, I have been to the location where it is set. And I've been able to get that really wonderful firsthand experience of being there. I feel like it takes this black and white world and colors it in this really vivid, wonderful way that lets me accurately convey it onto the book for hopefully what makes for a very evocative read for the reader.” – Madeline Martin “If you read a book and it's so good you can't put it down, you read it over the course of a weekend, and you can viscerally recall every part of that story, from what the character drank and ate, to what they wore, to that snarky little one-liner that they gave the antagonist. But if you took six months to read that book, you might have a different experience. So for me, when I get to write that book in one month, it's like I'm living in their skin, and I'm living in their heads.” – Madeline Martin Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Outlander by Diana Gabaldon - https://amzn.to/4iv5e3C The Last Bookshop in London: A Novel of World War II by Madeline Martin - https://amzn.to/4pKU0uq For the Love: Fighting for Grace in a World of Impossible Standards by Jen Hatmaker – https://amzn.to/48AqikP A Time of Witches: A Novel by Madeline Martin – https://amzn.to/3MBpnJl The Forgotten Pages by Madeline Martin – coming 2027 Goodreads 2025 Reading Challenge – https://www.goodreads.com/readingchallenges?ref=rc_summerreading_25 The Hope Keeper: A Novel by Heather Webb –https://amzn.to/48uJkc2 The Lotus Shoes: A Novel by Jane Yang – https://amzn.to/447ANuy Guest’s Links: Website - https://madelinemartin.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/madelinemmartin/ Twitter - https://x.com/MadelineMMartin Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/MadelineMartinAuthor Pinterest - https://www.instagram.com/madelinemmartin/ Substack - https://authormadelinemartin.substack.com/subscribe Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:Buckle up, friends — today’s episode is a whole ride in the best possible way. Our guest is Melani Sanders, the founder of the global We Do Not Care Movement™, a viral sisterhood of women who are reclaiming humor, agency, and sanity in the absolute circus that is perimenopause, menopause, and midlife. Melani went from full-time mom of three to an overnight cultural phenomenon when a candid little reel she posted — “If you are in perimenopause, menopause, and beyond and simply do not care much anymore, let me hear from you” — blew up the internet and awakened millions of women who said, “Oh… same.” What began as one moment of honesty became a movement, a community, and now a book called The Official We Do Not Care Club Handbook, A hysterectomy in 2024 sent Melani into early perimenopause, and suddenly everything she knew about her mind and body went off the rails. A meltdown in a Whole Foods parking lot became her personal wake-up call — the moment she stopped spiraling, started laughing, and began telling the unvarnished truth about hormone chaos, identity shifts, brain fog, midlife rage, caregiving, and the mental load women carry without complaint. In today’s conversation, we talk about what perimenopause really feels like, how midlife reshapes our relationships and self-perception, and why humor can be a lifeline when your hormones are staging a coup. We also explore what it looks like to drop shame, release the pressure to hold it all together, and embrace this wild, transformative season with honesty, community, and a big ol’ dose of “we simply do not care.” If you’re in perimenopause, menopause, or that hazy middle place where your brain, body, and identity are all renegotiating the terms — this episode will feel like being seen and understood. Melani is a treasure, and we cannot wait for you to meet her. Thought-provoking Quotes: “When you get off your period, you have maybe a good week and a half where you can laugh and engage with everyone. But with perimenopause and menopause and beyond, it's every day. So, if I throw a shoe, I'm sorry. I did what I did, you know? Lock me up.” – Melani Sanders “I can't niche down because I'm too freaking much.” – Melani Sanders “I'm not big on attention. I don’t want all eyes on me. I'm typically the mom that will set things up and make it beautiful and then sit at the back of the room where you'll never know that it's me. I want to be able to open the door for my sisters and while they go out there and do it.” – Melani Sanders “Humor can be so healing. We need it. The second we lose our ability to laugh, we are in real trouble.” – Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: We Do Not Care Club – https://wedonotcareclub.com/ The Official We Do Not Care Club Handbook: A Hot-Mess Guide for Women in Perimenopause, Menopause, and Beyond Who Are Over It by Melani Sanders – https://amzn.to/3MC9BxS Ashwagandha Supplement – https://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/grocery/search?k=ashwagandha+supplements Harper Collins, Harvest imprint – https://www.harpercollins.com/pages/harvest The We Do Not Care Movement - A Glimpse Into How It All Started – https://www.facebook.com/melani.sanders/videos/1445359516454880/ Guest’s Links: Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/justbeingmelani/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/melani.sanders/ TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@justbeingmelani Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:What happens after the dream you built your life around ends? In today’s tender and searching conversation, Jen and Amy sit down with acclaimed novelist Ben Markovits to talk about his forthcoming book, The Rest of Our Lives—a story that lingers in the quiet spaces of midlife, marriage, parenting, friendship, and the quiet reckonings that arrive when the future you imagined no longer fits. The book is so spectacular, it has been shortlisted as a finalist for the illustrious Booker Prize. Together, the trio explores what happens when the life you worked toward doesn’t quite deliver what you expected—and how that reckoning ripples through family, intimacy, and identity. Ben speaks honestly about ambition, and the grief of letting go of former selves, while also naming the surprising beauty found in showing up for the people you love in ordinary, unglamorous moments. He and Jen talk about the similarities between the fictional story that he wrote and the real-life account that Jen penned in Awake. This episode is for anyone standing in the middle of their life, caring for children or parents (or both), wondering how to hold disappointment without becoming hardened—and how to love the life in front of you without pretending it’s easy. It’s a conversation about endurance, tenderness, and the brave, ongoing work of choosing one another as the years keep unfolding. If you’ve ever asked yourself, Is this really it?—and then quietly hoped the answer might still be no, not yet—this one is for you. Thought-provoking Quotes: “The author of Anatomy of a Murder said that writing a novel is like driving on a mountain road late at night. You should know where you're trying to get to, and you should be able to see 30 yards in advance. I guess I have some sense of where I want to get to and then I spend a lot of time watching the next 30 yards.” – Ben Markovits “I like to write about characters who feel like the place they have made for themselves in the world doesn't totally express their sense of who they are.” – Ben Markovits I love the way you write all the backstories of everything because I'm someone who wants to ask 20 questions about what was the furniture in the in-laws beach house like and how did that shape the family dynamic that he married into? Which if you, if you ask all those questions, you sound a little crazy. But actually, you answered all of my questions as I was reading. – Amy Hardin “At a certain point in marriage, you have your fingerprints all over each other.” – Ben Markovits “I love when characters are human, flawed, curious, confused, just really working out their own story. I'm drawn to stories like that that aren't necessarily tidy.” – Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Rest of Our Lives: A Novel by Ben Markovits – https://amzn.to/4qanlhM The Booker Prizes | Ben Markovits – https://thebookerprizes.com/the-booker-library/authors/ben-markovits Anatomy of a Murder by Robert Traver – https://amzn.to/3YAUTKc Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker – https://amzn.to/4qaARlw Phineas Redux by Anthony Trollope – https://amzn.to/4qiOPSN Starting Out by Ben Markovits – https://www.faber.co.uk/journal/faber-announces-the-acquisition-of-a-new-novel-by-ben-markovits/#:~:text=It%20will%20be%20published%20in,' New York Times – out 12/21 Atlantic Excerpt – The Rest of Our Lives Book Tour – https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/The-Rest-of-Our-Lives/Ben-Markovits/9781668231562 Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.simonandschuster.com/authors/Ben-Markovits/250699726 Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:What if the most faithful thing we could do right now is simply pay attention? In this episode of For the Love, Jen and Amy sit down with theologian, ethics professor, and artist Lee C. Camp for a soulful conversation about the kind of faith that wakes us up to what truly matters. As part of our Wake Up Call series on faith, Lee invites us to slow down and notice the world—our lives, our neighbors, and the beauty that keeps trying to reach us. Together, they explore why paying attention is not a luxury but a spiritual practice—and how our obsession with productivity, planning, and certainty can cause us to miss the most beautiful and formative parts of our lives. Lee reflects on what it means to know ourselves as deeply beloved by God, not because of what we produce but because love is the starting point of a life well lived. This conversation traces the threads of human flourishing and imagination, and asks why beauty—found in art, nature, poetry, and story—often teaches us more about God than arguments ever could. As he often does on his own No Small Endeavor podcast, Lee challenges us to consider what Christians are being called to wake up to in this season: a renewed attention to community, to creation, and to a church that is something we practice together, not merely something we attend. If you’re longing for a faith that feels grounded, spacious, and alive—one that helps you live a good life in the world you actually inhabit—this episode is a gentle, necessary wake-up call. Thought-provoking Quotes: “What Christianity most needs right now is to rediscover the basics of the beautiful story which we claim to believe.” – Lee C. Camp The model of the cross means that if we take up our cross and follow Christ, that we can expect difficulty because so much of human history doesn't want that kind of way. Religious powers don't want that. Imperialist powers don't want that. And so we can trust that we're going to have our own kind of crosses to bear along the way. And yet that life has triumphed over death. That love has triumphed over hatred. that beauty and truth and goodness has triumphed over hostility and ugliness and meanness. And so that's the big story.” – Lee C. Camp I deeply understand why a lot of people just can't believe all this [religious] stuff. But for me, it, the story at its best. is so beautiful that I don't know why everybody doesn't want to believe it, even if they can't believe it. It's this place we embody this narrative, embody this beauty, embody this brokenness in which we try to find tangible ways to do life together.” – Lee C. Camp Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Jen Hatmaker on Lee Camp’s No Small Endeavor podcast | Jen Hatmaker: When Everything Breaks: Grief, Growth, and Human Flourishing – https://www.nosmallendeavor.com/jen-hatmaker-when-everything-breaks-grief-growth-and-human-flourishing No Small Endeavor Podcast – https://www.nosmallendeavor.com/ Munther Isaac: Palestinian Christian Pastor on War, Hope, and Love –https://www.nosmallendeavor.com/munther-isaac-palestinian-christian-pastor-on-war-hope-and-love Munther Isaac Sermon | Christ in the Rubble – youtube.com/watch?si=zK8OKK_xGMZR64ZD&v=ZPTrmN6Dzmw&feature=youtu.be Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.leeccamp.com/home Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/LeeCCamp Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/leeccamp Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2Rk2D2fHz5mzmJT8G-x9uO5kyhQiU1N2 Podcast - https://www.nosmallendeavor.com/ The Subtext Podcast – https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-subtext/id1835471106 Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:As we close out the year, we wanted to do something a little different—and a little more tender. In this special end-of-year episode of For the Love, we’re turning the mic over to you. Over the past months, your voicemails have poured in, telling the story of what it’s been like to read Awake: the unraveling, the naming, the grief, the relief, the courage, the slow return to yourself. The messages were so honest and so resonant that we knew we needed to play some of them back—not just to honor the people who shared them, but to remind anyone listening in a similar space that they are not alone. We’ve woven these voices together in four acts, tracing the arc so many of us recognize. Act I — “The Moment Everything Broke” We hear from Nadine, Allison, and Sharon about the before-and-after moments: marriages ending, bodies shamed, the deep wounds of purity culture, and the rupture that comes when the life you were living can no longer hold. Act II — “Finding Language for the Ache” Paulette and Inez share what it means to finally name what couldn’t be named before—untangling attachment and codependence, wrestling with faith, Jesus, and the pain of church rupture, and discovering words for a long-held ache. Act III — “Coming Back to Ourselves” With Kelly and Laura, we witness what healing can look like in motion: reclaiming agency, inhabiting our bodies again, joy returning, learning to cherish yourself, embracing life, committing to therapy, finding community, and being truly seen. Act IV — “Witnessing a Life Over Time” Tracy closes us out with the long view—what it means to trust the slow arc of a life, to be held in shared history, and to witness change unfolding over time. If something in you woke up this year—even painfully—you’re not behind. You’re right on time. And you are certainly not alone. Thought-provoking Quotes: “Here’s to cherishing ourselves. We have so much to cherish.” – Kelly, For the Love listener “If you’re willing to believe a voice from the future who has been sitting exactly where you are sitting…There is something after this story, even though you can't see that, something good is still coming for you.” – Jen Hatmaker “Everyone's experience can be a lantern to someone else.” – Amy Hardin “This is how it goes. This is how people are inspired and moved. This is how we lend courage to one another by saying our things out loud. And that is literally how my life moved. I listened to other people who were saying their thing out loud and I just was just sitting there quietly listening, going, I wonder if this is something I could consider.” – Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker – https://amzn.to/44U2DuL Codependent No More: How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself by Melody Beattie – https://amzn.to/48UTYcn Jen Hatmaker Book Club – https://shop.jenhatmaker.com/collections/book-club?srsltid=AfmBOooHcTDRzkwfxjaozkEQyYWtFpthqUtOcFwOOiSYTqO7fCTbaEsb Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:Today’s guest, Suleika Jaouad, first captured our collective hearts with her searing memoir Between Two Kingdoms — a book that traced her diagnosis of leukemia, the brutal treatment that followed, and the long, complicated journey of coming home to herself again. It was a Jen Hatmaker Book Club selection back in March 2023, and it has stayed with so many of us. Suleika is an Emmy Award–winning journalist, bestselling author, speaker, and artist whose work asks some of the biggest questions humans ever face: What does it mean to live when life has been shattered? How do we hold hope and devastation at the same time? What does healing actually look like when recovery isn’t linear, or even guaranteed? She is also the founder of The Isolation Journals, a global creative community of more than 100,000 writers, artists, and curious souls who use storytelling and imagination as tools for transformation. Her latest book, The Book of Alchemy, feels is a continuation of her journey — filled with essays, prompts, and reflections from over 100 contributors across disciplines. It’s an invitation to explore how we turn pain into meaning, uncertainty into beauty, and our lives into art. Suleika speaks so generously about what it means to live in the middle — between diagnosis and remission, despair and joy, isolation and connection — and how storytelling helps us metabolize what we’ve lived through. Whether you’re a writer, an artist, someone who’s walking through your own valley, or simply trying to make sense of your story, this episode will speak to you. Thought-provoking Quotes: There is no right or wrong way to journal. There are no rules. You don’t have to be a good writer. I think it's why journaling appeals to me so much. – Suleika Jaouad I really try to make the journal a sacred space where I get to be my most unedited, most chaotic self. – Suleika Jaouad When I'm not trying to be efficient or productive is when I often end up having my best ideas because I’m not controlling, I'm not pushing, I'm not muscling my way through. – Suleika Jaouad When I stop making certainty or perfection the goal, it releases me from measuring myself against how far I am from that goal. And I get to be more present in what's happening now. – Suleika Jaouad Resources Mentioned in This Episode: American Symphony documentary on Netflix – https://www.netflix.com/title/81728930 The Book of Alchemy: A Creative Practice for an Inspired Life by Suleika Jaouad – https://amzn.to/3KPqWTD The Art of Survival | In living with cancer, Suleika Jaouad has learned to wrench meaning from our short time on Earth by Jennifer Senior | The Atlantic – https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2024/06/suleika-jaouad-writer-health-cancer/678210/?utm_campaign=the-atlantic&utm_content=edit-promo&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook Between Two Kingdoms: A Memoir of a Life Interrupted by Suleika Jaouad – https://amzn.to/48KO9y5 The Isolations Journals on Substack – https://theisolationjournals.substack.com/ Jon Batiste – https://www.jonbatiste.com/ Piano for Super Bowl LIX 2025 – https://noma.org/exhibitions/jaouad-batiste-piano/#exhibition-works Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.suleikajaouad.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/suleikajaouad/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/SuleikaJaouadPage Substack - https://theisolationjournals.substack.com/ Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: In this live, wide-ranging conversation, Jen Hatmaker is joined by bestselling author and civic educator Sharon McMahon (Sharon Says So) for an honest, funny, and deeply grounding discussion about truth, courage, faith, and what it means to stay awake in uncertain times. Beginning with Sharon joining Jen on stage, the two explore everything from dating after divorce and the wisdom of grandmothers, to how fear and misinformation shape our public life. They reflect on history as a guide, the importance of joy as resistance, and why living fully—especially in anxious seasons—is not a betrayal of others’ suffering. Jen also shares hard-won insight about friendship in midlife, faith after certainty, and the real cost of telling the truth. Together, Jen and Sharon remind us that while waking up is disruptive, staying asleep costs more—and that we don’t have to navigate this moment alone. Thought-provoking Quotes: “You are not helping anybody by being paralyzed in a state of fear and joylessness.”— Sharon McMahon “There have been people who came before us who lived through so much—and they left their lanterns on the path.” — Sharon McMahon “You do not owe the world a state of paralyzation and fear.”— Sharon McMahon “One friend can love you back to life. One is enough.” — Jen Hatmaker “Too hard is living asleep at the wheel.”— Jen Hatmaker “I don’t see good fruit from this tree.” — Jen Hatmaker “God is not constrained to a building. I didn’t lose Jesus.” — Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: ➢ Awake by Jen Hatmaker ➢ Me Talk Pretty One Day by David Sedaris ➢ The Middle Place by Kelly Corrigan ➢ Works by Anne Lamott ➢ Harriet Tubman (historical reference) Guest’s Links: Sharon’s Website– https://sharonmcmahon.com/ Sharon’s Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/sharonsaysso Sharon’s Substack – https://thepreamble.com/ Sharon’s Podcast – https://sharonmcmahon.com/podcast Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:Peace can feel elusive — globally, socially, personally. So what does it look like to reclaim it? And how do we rise when everything feels beyond dead? In this encore episode, we look back on one of our most galvanizing conversations from our For the Love of Peace series with Father James Martin — Jesuit priest, bestselling author, and one of the most trusted spiritual voices in America. Together, Jen and Father Martin explore what a centuries-old story still teaches us today. Rooted in the raising of Lazarus, their discussion unfolds into a modern invitation: What are we willing to let die so that we can live? Drawing on grief, mystery, advocacy, and the disruptive tenderness of Jesus, this conversation reaches for peace in the places that feel buried — in the church, in our communities, in ourselves. They talk candidly about: why Jesus still disorients us (and why that’s good) the comfort and challenge of real resurrection why faith should push us toward the margins, not away from them and how letting old patterns die brings us closer to peace If you’re hungry for spiritual clarity, exhausted by harmful religion, or longing for a God who feels like a deep breath — this episode is a balm. Father Martin’s humanity and integrity remind us what faith can still be: hopeful, liberating, trustworthy. May this encore meet you where you are — in grief, confusion, curiosity, or longing — and call you to come forth into peace, presence, and new life. Thought-provoking Quotes: “We’re called to reach out to people who feel—and who are—marginalized and excluded. That’s pretty clear in the gospels. For Jesus there’s no ‘us and them,’ there’s just ‘us.’ He’s about making the community into an us.” — Father James Martin “Jesus is fully human and fully divine. And it’s the fully human part that a lot of people have a hard time with. He weeps, he gets frustrated, he gets tired — and we have to keep those two things in tension, because if we lose sight of either one we risk not really understanding who he is.”— Father James Martin “What are the things in my life — patterns, behaviors, resentments — that I have to let die? What do I want to leave in the tomb? And can I trust that God is calling me to something new?” — Father James Martin “So much of the Christian message is forgiveness — letting resentment, bitterness, and grudges die. That does lead to peace. ‘Peace be with you’ isn’t just comfort — it’s invitation, it’s transformation, it’s listening to God and letting things go.”— Father James Martin Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Inspired: Slaying Giants, Walking on Water, and Loving the Bible Again by Rachel Held Evans - https://amzn.to/494t9Uo The Jesuit Guide to (Almost) Everything: A Spirituality for Real Life by Father James Martin - https://amzn.to/3Kn8KAI Learning to Pray: A Guide for Everyone by Father James Martin – https://amzn.to/44nfAwK Transgender People Can Be Baptized Catholic Reuters Article – https://www.reuters.com/world/transsexuals-can-be-baptized-catholic-serve-godparents-vatican-says-2023-11-08/ Come Forth: The Promise of Jesus’s Greatest Miracle by Father James Martin – https://amzn.to/3KS1c9a Mary Karr – https://www.marykarr.com/ The Seven Storey Mountain byThomas Merton – https://amzn.to/44TmdXL Dorothy Day — https://www.dorothydayguild.org/dorothy-day7ce4a03b Guest’s Links: Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jamesmartinsj/?hl=en Twitter - https://x.com/JamesMartinSJ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/FrJamesMartin/ TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@jamesmartinsj?lang=en Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:Today we’re talking to someone whose work really hits right where we live this year — in that messy middle space where you know you need joy, but you’re not totally sure how to find your way back to it. Sarah Catherine “SC” Perot created Styles of Joy, which is genuinely one of the most grounding, practical, soul-forward frameworks we’ve encountered in a long time. SC is an author, speaker, Vanderbilt professor, and self-proclaimed joy enthusiast whose work explores how we reclaim joy in seasons of transition, loss, rebuilding, and reinvention. Her debut book blends personal storytelling, cultural observation, and her CAPS Framework—Cultivate, Adopt, Protect, and Spread—a blueprint for understanding how joy works in us, around us, and through us. In this conversation, we talk about reclaiming joy after difficult seasons, the identity shifts that come with major life transitions, the science and soulfulness of joy, and why small, daily practices matter more than we think. SC brings brilliance, compassion, and practicality to a topic that often feels elusive, reminding us that joy isn’t something we “earn” — it’s something we can cultivate and choose, even in the midst of imperfect lives. If you’ve been craving a reset, a reorientation, or just a little more light in your day, this episode is a beautiful place to begin. Thought-provoking Quotes: “Music is like a scent that can transport us back in time. We have so many memories bookmarked in our heads.” – SC Perot “Joy can meet us in our quiet moments. It can meet us at a concert in a room full of people drowned in confetti. And it can meet us anywhere in between.” – SC Perot “The heat I was getting in my DMs, people are saying, have you lost your mind? You used to be on the straight and narrow. What has happened to you? What is with the feather boas?” – SC Perot “If we know we can tee ourselves up for productivity and if we know we can tee ourselves up for healthy decision making, why would we also not give joy a shot first thing in the morning?” – SC Perot “Joy can start small, just as hope does.” – SC Perot Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Styles of Joy: A Feel-Good Framework for Rediscovering Joy (with a Twist!) by SC Perot – https://amzn.to/48yUooy Harry Styles – https://www.hstyles.co.uk/ The Joy Hotline – https://www.scperot.com/joy-hotline/ Make Your Bed: Little Things That Can Change Your Life...And Maybe the World by Admiral William H. McRaven – https://amzn.to/4oC3iYK Unlocking the Secrets of Consciousness and Telepathy: Ky Dickens and The Telepathy Tapes - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/unlocking-the-secrets-of-consciousness-and-telepathy-ky-dickens-and-the-telepathy-tapes/ Jen Hatmaker | Advent Week One: The Light of Hope – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Obh3zvna-ng Elizabeth Gilbert Oprah show botox post on Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/p/CCyHEtZh8DG/ Tom Holland “Umbrella” Lip Sync Battle – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPCJIB1f7jk The Guardian | I tried some hacks to make my phone less appealing. It got existential – https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2024/jan/15/phone-addiction-cut-screen-time-diary Catherine Shannon Substack | Everyone is Numbing Out – https://catherineshannon.substack.com/p/everyone-is-numbing-out This Is Not a Book About Benedict Cumberbatch: The Joy of Loving Something--Anything--Like Your Life Depends On It by Tabatha Carvan – https://amzn.to/4pora36 Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.scperot.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/scperot/ Substack - https://substack.com/@scperot Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: If you’ve been lucky enough to stumble upon ‘The Keeper of Lost Things’ the bestselling debut novel by British author Ruth Hogan, you know exactly why it captured our hearts and was selected as our JHBC November Fireside Read selection. This book is a whimsical, tender, and deeply human story about a man who collects seemingly insignificant lost objects — and the woman who inherits both his home and this strange little mission. As she begins to return these “lost things” to their owners, we discover that every object holds a story, every story holds a loss, and every loss holds a little bit of light. Ruth’s own story is just as moving — she began writing after recovering from a serious car accident, during a time when she felt a bit lost herself. And from that season came this debut novel that went on to charm readers all over the world. This book feels like a love letter to brokenness — to the idea that what’s been lost can still be redeemed. It’s a generous, tender book — one that invites us to look closer at the world around us and remember that meaning lives everywhere, even in the smallest things. Thought-provoking Quotes: “I was one of those people who thought, ‘I'll write a book one day… it'll happen one day.’ But you should never wait for one day. You should get on with it.” – Ruth Hogan “You can't control what life throws at you but you can control what you do with it.” – Ruth Hogan “I think I write in quite an unusual way, speaking to other authors. I don't worry about planning and plotting. I like it to just come out organically. I will sit down, the story is in my head and it will come out. But what I do do is I edit chapter by chapter, which is a very bizarre way of working. And I'm so finicky that sometimes I can't move on if one word isn't right.” – Ruth Hogan “I'm a great believer that the universe will tell you the right thing to do.” – Ruth Hogan “I love to explore the emotional attachment that we form with objects. And I think it's all about maintaining connections. We will give an object disproportionate significance because it relates to a person that we loved or a memory or a place. I think we all do that. all have objects and we have connections to these objects that make them much more valuable than their intrinsic worth.” – Ruth Hogan “In one of my other books I described my characters as being ‘cracked in the kiln’. Those are the people that I'm interested in. I'm not interested in perfect people. I'm interested in the people who are lost, who have made mistakes. I love that idea of people being repaired and being more beautiful and more valuable because of their life experience.” – Ruth Hogan Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Keeper of Lost Things: A Novel by Ruth Hogan - https://amzn.to/4nGYy3p To the Sea by Train: The Golden Age of Railway Travel by Andrew Martin - https://amzn.to/3Jl7fT5 The Secret of Secrets: A Novel by Dan Brown - https://amzn.to/4oQTx9j The Golden Hour by Kate Lord Brown - https://amzn.to/4qMvslX Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.ruthhogan.co.uk/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/ruthmariehoganauthor/ Twitter - https://x.com/ruthmariehogan Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/RuthHoganAuthor/ Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:In this Road Tripping episode, Jen is joined by one of her dearest friends — the brilliant and beloved author and interviewer, Kelly Corrigan. Kelly read Awake cover to cover (twice!) and came armed to the live Awake Book Tour event in Denver, Colorado with ten of her favorite lines from the book, inviting Jen to riff on each one in real time. What unfolds is a night of belly laughs, truth-telling, and deep reflection on faith, patriarchy, divorce, parenting adult kids, therapy, rebuilding your life, and why middle age is actually the most freeing chapter yet. This conversation is Jen and Kelly at their absolute best: funny, wise, irreverent, and wide open. Growing up inside patriarchal faith systems and the lifelong impact of being taught not to trust your own intuition Why Jen believes that curiosity has never led her wrong — but that certainty has led her down many dead ends The moment that Jen realized the patriarchy harms everyone, including the men and boys she loves How purity culture can shape (and warp) our early ideas about sex, marriage, and womanhood Parenting through divorce and the shift from coaching to comforting Therapy breakthroughs around conflict, attachment styles, codependency, and dropping the need to control others’ emotions Thought-provoking Quotes: “Curiosity has never led me wrong. Certainty has led me down so many dead ends.” —Jen Hatmaker “Patriarchy messed both of us up. Neither one of us was meant to live inside those roles.” —Jen Hatmaker “When you try to rush your kids through their hard feelings, they feel abandoned. Comfort over coaching — that’s where we live.” —Jen Hatmaker “I’m not your leader. I’m your sister. This book isn’t a prescription. It’s my story handed to you with open hands.” —Jen Hatmaker “Sometimes the worst thing that ever happens ends up becoming the best thing. Not because of the pain — but because of the life that blooms afterward.” —Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker – https://amzn.to/440b5YW Tell Me More: Stories About the 12 Hardest Things I'm Learning to Say by Kelly Corrigan – https://amzn.to/4an9rUX The Middle Place by Kelly Corrigan – https://amzn.to/49Xueyt Kelly Corrigan Wonders podcast – https://www.kellycorrigan.com/podcast Who Is Government?: The Untold Story of Public Service by Michael Lewis – https://amzn.to/4pLC3Md Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.kellycorrigan.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/kellycorrigan Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/kelly.corrigan.376 Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@kellycorriganvideo Podcast - https://www.kellycorrigan.com/podcast Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. Listen in as Jen and Kelly discuss: To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: In this special Road Tripping episode, Jen invites her partner, actor/activist/author Tyler Merritt, to join her live after a last-minute schedule pivot. What unfolds is a night of honesty, hilarity, vulnerability, and deep connection. Jen reads two scenes from Awake—one from the earliest days of shock and grief, and one from the chaotic, hilarious adventure of dating again at midlife. She shares the moment her body finally allowed her to grieve, the unexpected relief that followed, and how storytelling helped rebuild her life from the inside out. Tyler joins her onstage and opens up about his own journey: discovering creativity as a kid in a sports household, what midlife has taught him, how his rare cancer diagnosis reshaped his priorities, and how their love story began on a night in New York City neither saw coming. He and Jen talk candidly about walking through illness together, finding joy even in hard seasons, and why Awake speaks to all genders—not just women. This episode is tender, funny, surprising, and deeply human—a reminder that grief can crack us open in ways that eventually let the light back in. ★ “My body bypassed my mind and gave itself the gift of grief.” — Jen Hatmaker (reading from Awake) ★ “If creativity is in you, you can’t get rid of it. It will find its way out.” — Tyler Merritt (on discovering his storytelling voice) ★ “Middle age shortens your alphabet — you just have fewer Fs to give.” — Tyler Merritt (describing midlife clarity) ★ “You don’t just get my story of cancer — you get yours, because you chose to love me.” — Tyler Merritt (on his cancer journey and their relationship) ★ “Some of the hardest things you’ve ever been through? You made it. You’re still here.” — Tyler Merritt (reflecting on resilience and survival) ➢ Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/4rjitZ7➢ This Changes Everything: A Surprisingly Funny Story About Race, Cancer, Faith, and Other Things We Don’t Talk About by Tyler Merritt – https://amzn.to/4ilNtnh➢ Simple Habit meditation app (referenced in the grief scene) - https://www.simplehabit.com/➢ Corey Muscara (meditation guide Jen listened to) – https://corymuscara.com/➢ The Tyler Merritt Project – https://thetylermerrittproject.com/➢ Waitress: The Musical (where Jen and Tyler first met) – https://waitressthemusical.com/ Website – https://thetylermerrittproject.com/Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/thetylermerrittproject/Twitter – https://x.com/ttmprojectFacebook – https://www.facebook.com/thetylermerrittprojectYouTube – https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPB48_JfK-VMnYQPTYyMX5Q Jen’s Website – https://jenhatmaker.com/Jen’s Instagram – https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter – https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/Jen’s Facebook – https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube – https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. Thought-provoking Quotes:Resources Mentioned in This Episode:Guest’s Links:Connect with Jen! To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Introducing: unPAUSED with Dr. Mary Claire Haver Dr. Mary Claire Haver, a bestselling author, board-certified Obstetrician-Gynecologist, Certified Menopause Practitioner, and women’s health advocate, is already known for transforming conversations about midlife and menopause. Now, she is extending her reach with her new podcast, unPAUSED, to share her expertise and empower even more women. On unPAUSED, Dr. Haver hosts candid, encouraging conversations about what it means to truly thrive during every stage of womanhood. This is about living life fully—no more pausing our lives, feeling invisible, or suffering in silence. Each weekly episode features a diverse lineup of guests, including medical experts, CEOs, and risk-takers, as they delve into universally relevant topics: from health and hormones to identity, relationships, and the experience of reinventing oneself in this next chapter. Listeners will come away from every episode feeling informed, seen, and inspired to live life unpaused. Check out this trailer for unPAUSED and subscribe today so you don’t miss an episode. Thought-provoking Quotes: What I hear from women everyday is that they want more for themselves, yet here’s the reality – as women, we’ve been expected to serve and fade. We were raised to believe that our values lie in how much we give, how quiet we stay, and how well we put everyone else’s needs before our own. And then, when we hit midlife, the world looks away. But women are waking up and saying, ‘hell no!’” – Dr. Mary Claire Haver Resources Mentioned in This Episode: unPAUSED with Dr. Mary Claire Haver - https://thepauselife.com/pages/the-unpaused-podcast Guest’s Links: Website - https://thepauselife.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/drmaryclaire/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/drmaryclaire/ TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@drmaryclaire YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@drmaryclaire Podcast - https://thepauselife.com/pages/the-unpaused-podcast Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: In today’s mind-bending episode, prepare to challenge everything you think you know. Today, we're inviting listeners into a radically inclusive conversation that reimagines ideas about communication, consciousness, and human connection. Award-winning filmmaker and storyteller Ky Dickens joins us to discuss The Telepathy Tapes, her viral podcast documenting the lived experiences of nonspeaking individuals who communicate in ways long dismissed or misunderstood. Through careful listening, deep respect, and investigative rigor, the series challenges entrenched assumptions about intelligence, language, and who gets to be heard—and believed. In conversation with hosts Jen and Amy, Ky explores how nonspeakers are expanding our understanding of connection beyond spoken language, giving insight into telepathic communication and shared consciousness. The episode centers the voices of a community historically excluded from public discourse and asks what becomes possible when we widen our definition of communication, dignity, and belonging. Rather than sensationalizing the unexplained, this conversation treats nonspeakers as authoritative narrators of their own experiences—inviting listeners to confront ableism, reexamine bias, and consider how inclusion begins with attention. Highlights from this Episode: How nonspeaking individuals are redefining communication and agency Dismissed yet fascinating topics like energy healing, animal communication, mediumship, and near-death experiences “The Hill”: a shared metaphysical space described by nonspeakers as a site of connection What these experiences reveal about consciousness, presence, and the enduring human need to belong This episode is a powerful act of listening—one that expands empathy, affirms marginalized voices, and challenges audiences to imagine a more inclusive understanding of what it means to communicate and connect. Thought-provoking Quotes: “Maybe instead of fixing the brokenness in society, I should focus on fixing the brokenness in me and in humanity.” – Ky Dickens “I don't think it's binary that people have to be that dogmatic about science, and we don't have to believe in everything. I think most of us are somewhere in the middle. We want to really investigate and understand the truth about the non-physical world, and it's not silly or unscientific or gullible to do so. I think it's a beautiful part of being alive.” – Ky Dickens “One thing I have come to realize deeply is that science and spirituality are not enemies.” – Ky Dickens “I have not met a single non-speaker who doesn't talk about people who've passed and about the very real existence of God in an afterlife.” – Ky Dickens Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Telepathy Tapes – https://thetelepathytapes.com/ BT Harman - https://btharman.com/welcome Dr. Diane Hennacy Powell – https://drdianehennacy.com/ Elizabeth Gilbert – https://www.elizabethgilbert.com/ Rick Rubin - https://x.com/RickRubin Gregory Shushan – https://www.gregoryshushan.com/ Jane Goodall – https://janegoodall.org/ Guest’s Links: Website - https://thetelepathytapes.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/thetelepathytapes/ Twitter - https://x.com/TelepathyTapes Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPA5cHDlwkvTM7akXINZo9w TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@telepathytapes Podcast - https://open.spotify.com/show/1zigaPaUWO4G9SiFV0Kf1c Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: We’re revisiting one of our most-loved conversations from this show—an exploration of how transformation takes shape in our lives and how we can bravely meet it, even when it’s terrifying. In this encore episode, we look back on Jen’s conversation with poet and community-builder Joy Sullivan, whose own “chosen change” became a leap toward more sanity, more love, and more joy. After years of living according to scripts written by others, Joy found herself standing at a crossroads, feeling the pull of something deeper and more true. What followed was a radical leap into the unknown—a move that reshaped her life, her faith, and her art, including her book ‘Instructions for Traveling West’ – a collection for anyone flinging themselves into their own fresh starts. Together, she and Jen talk about the “incremental scoots” we make before the big leap, the beauty and ache of reinvention, and how stillness can become a sacred space for clarity. Joy shares her story of walking into the unknown and learning to trust her intuition along the way. In this episode, we reflect on: The difference between a change that happens to us and one we choose Embracing loneliness and stillness as paths to self-discovery Lessons that taught Joy to love herself more deeply Why poetry gives language to what we cannot say aloud If you’re feeling the pull toward something new but uncertain, this encore offers a gentle reminder that change—though often uncomfortable—is where our truest selves begin to emerge. Thought-provoking Quotes: "If the birds know how to migrate, if bears know when to hibernate, if nature knows when to move forward, it doesn't make any sense for us to not know that also." – Joy Sullivan "It's so important to listen and to follow the rhythms that we're pulled to even if we don't know what we're leaping towards." – Amy Hardin “First you must realize you're homesick for all the lives you're not living. Then you must commit to the road and the rising loneliness.” – Joy Sullivan “You have to be careful what you write down—it performs this kind of beautiful, terrifying magic.” – Joy Sullivan “Don’t compare yourself to someone who’s mid-leap. There were probably a lot of scoots to the edge before they launched.” – Joy Sullivan “You don’t have to get the leap right every time. You just have to be willing to innovate midair.” – Joy Sullivan “I had coded into my psyche what it meant to be a good woman. When I fractured those stories, my life expanded into possibility.” – Joy Sullivan “If I take crumbs and call it a meal, if I stay in rooms where I’m not called beloved, then I’m in a cage of my own making.” – Joy Sullivan Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Flinging Ourselves Into Fresh Starts ft. Joy Sullivan – https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-61/flinging-ourselves-into-fresh-starts-ft-joy-sullivan/ Sustenance ((A Community of Poets and Writers founded by Joy Sullivan) - https://joysullivanpoet.com/sustenance Necessary Salt (Joy Sullivan’s Substack Blog) - https://joysullivan.substack.com/ Instructions For Traveling West: Poems by Joy Sullivan - https://amzn.to/4qZTZ7l Guest’s Links: Website - https://joysullivanpoet.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/joysullivanpoet/ Twitter - https://x.com/Joy_E_Sullivan Substack - https://joysullivan.substack.com/ Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: Today’s guest is someone whose work has touched millions of hearts around the world. You probably fell in love with her through her luminous debut memoir ‘From Scratch: A Memoir of Love, Sicily, and Finding Home’, which was later adapted into a limited series on Netflix and became a global success. Tembi Locke has held many roles: accomplished author, producer, screenwriter, actor, artist, caregiver, child of divorce, mother through adoption, and widow to cancer. It is through her experiences in all of these spaces that Tembi has honed her ability to write, speak, and live from that rare place where grief and grace meet—where we can hold loss and love in the same breath. Her newest work, Someday, Now, is an immersive, breathtaking, and deeply personal audio experience that takes us on a journey back to Sicily, a place layered with memory, love, and loss for Tembi, as she prepares to send her daughter off to college. Through reflection, family, and the beauty of place, Tembi invites us to consider what it means to re-nest—to reclaim identity, purpose, and joy in a season of profound transition. Whether you’re launching a kid, starting over, or simply remembering how to listen to your own heart again, this episode will speak to you in this season. Thought-provoking Quotes: “Sometimes in sharing the hardest things, we actually feel less alone.” – Tembi Locke “Sicily is that place of myth and nectar for me. It's one of those places on the planet that is supercharged with the best of what nature has to offer: sun, wind, the sea. It’s a beautiful place. It's the place I return to when there's something I don't quite understand and Sicily makes me have to listen to it.” – Tembi Locke “I think when you get to midlife, you need to settle into yourself, be more present with yourself in order to show up for the big moments of change that are happening. Try to anchor in and be as present as possible. Lean into the quiet spaces between the moments.” – Tembi Locke “How can we make space as families and really as mothers at this inflection point to quiet the noise and busyness of life? How can we slow down time, and really mark the moment and honor it?” – Tembi Locke Resources Mentioned in This Episode: From Scratch: A Memoir of Love, Sicily, and Finding Home by Tembi Locke - https://amzn.to/47s3ZhN From Scratch on Netflix - https://www.netflix.com/title/81104486 Attica Locke - https://www.atticalocke.com/ Someday, Now: A Memoir of Family, Reclaiming Possibility, and One Sicilian Summer by Tembi Locke - https://amzn.to/3LLKUyA Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.tembilocke.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/tembilocke/ Podcast - https://www.tembilocke.com/podcast Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: Tune in for this very special #JenHatmakerBookClub episode where Jen gives unprecedented access to look behind the scenes at her own writing process and collaboration that went into the publishing of “Awake”. For today’s conversation, Jen sits down with Vice President and Editorial Director for Avid Reader Press, Lauren Wein, to delve into the journey of bringing Jen's book "Awake" to the page and all the way to the New York Times bestseller list. Jen discusses the profound impact of trusting your own intuition in your writing along with the challenges in memoir-writing of prioritizing authenticity and vulnerability while honoring the privacy for those involved. Lauren pulls back the curtain on the collaborative nature of the editing process, describing the satisfaction she finds with helping authors find their voice. And Jen shares the one truth she hopes every reader of “Awake” walks away with. Anyone who is interested in writing, or the behind-the-scenes or book-making will enjoy this episode. Whether you're a writer or a reader, this conversation offers a unique glimpse into the creative process and the power of storytelling. Thought-provoking Quotes: “One of the things that Awake is about is learning to trust yourself and trusting your body. I feel like that is how I edit. It's like a tuning fork. I sense when something is like, need more or need less. It's physical.” – Lauren Wein “Every story deserves authenticity.” – Jen Hatmaker “In the war of ‘you versus you’, nobody wins, because you're very hard on yourself. You have a very critical inner voice. When you hear somebody tell you something that you maybe sensed about yourself but you didn't quite know, it ignites something, it confirms something that maybe you sensed was there but the voice was too small because the other voices were just louder.” – Lauren Wein “Finding your voice is a journey.” – Lauren Wein “When this book was first announced, it was erroneously referred to as a tell-all, which was upsetting to all of us because that is absolutely not what it is. What was very important to you (Jen) was honesty, not telling it all, but being truthful and respecting other people's privacy. Now that is the hardest line to walk when you're writing your own story because your own story is not your own story entirely.” – Lauren Wein "Trust your intuition in creative work." – Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: For the parents who are slogging through May – https://jenhatmaker.com/blog/for-the-parents-who-are-slogging-through-may/ Margaret Riley King - https://www.wmebookdepartment.com/team/margaret-riley-king/ Maybe You Should Talk to Someone: A Therapist, HER Therapist, and Our Lives Revealed by Lori Gottleib - https://amzn.to/4pUADj8 Wild Game: My Mother, Her Secret, and Me by Adrienne Brodeur - https://amzn.to/4nywiRc Becoming Duchess Goldblatt by Anonymous - https://amzn.to/4o6rHpt Awake by Jen Hatmaker audiobook - https://amzn.to/4gU7v7P Lights on a Similar Path: ‘Awake’ Readers Reflect On Finding Their Way - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/lights-on-a-similar-path-awake-readers-reflect-on-finding-their-way/ Guest’s Links: Website - https://editors.simonandschuster.com/editor/wein-lauren/ Twitter - https://x.com/desideratasaur Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/lauren.wein.1/ Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: In this heartfelt episode, Jen and Amy welcome friends, Justin McRoberts and Scott Erickson, to delve into the tender complexities of depression, creativity, and faith. Together, Scott and Justin have built a body of work around the intersection of art, prayer, and healing, including their newest project: In the Low: A Prayerbook for the Seasons of Depression. Today they share personal stories and insights on how art and spirituality can serve as companions through life's most isolating lows. This episode offers a compassionate perspective on navigating mental health challenges and finding hope in unexpected places. If you've ever found yourself in a season that was super dark or unbearably heavy, this conversation will bring you comfort. Thought-provoking Quotes: “When depression eventually would lift in my life, I noticed that I'd think, ‘Where did this fruit come from? Where did this treasure come from?’ It came through going through this process. You might feel void of it when you're in it, you're just trying to get through it or be in it or be functional every day. But there is something happening.” – Scott Erickson “What are the comforting words I need for today? How can my conscious mind provide something for my subconscious and my soul? How can my conscious mind provide some handles for me for this day, for this week, for this moment?” – Justin McRoberts “Your disappointment in the religious systems you've been a part of is a gift and those systems need it. There's something really institutionally beautiful and necessary to whole swaths, thousands and thousands of people sharing the same set of disappointments. Follow that thread.” – Scott Erickson “You aren't wrong to feel the things you are feeling. Life is hard. The machinery is beating the snot out of you. Stay. Please stay long enough to see what might be down there and learn to breathe. My hope is not that you rise to the surface, though I do hope that. My hope is that you learn to breathe at this depth.” – Justin McRoberts Resources Mentioned in This Episode: 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline - https://988lifeline.org/ Nichole Nordeman - https://www.instagram.com/nicholenordeman Prayer: Forty Days of Practice by Scott Erickson and Justin McRoberts - https://amzn.to/4hDMVsM May It Be So: Forty Days with the Lord's Prayer by Scott Erickson and Justin McRoberts - https://amzn.to/3WsKFL5 Honest Advent: Awakening to the Wonder of God-with-Us Then, Here, and Now by Scott Erickson - https://amzn.to/3LeVIFc In the Low: Honest Prayers for Dark Season by Scott Erickson and Justin McRoberts - https://amzn.to/3LaIB87 Lost Connections: Uncovering the Real Causes of Depression - and the Unexpected Solutions by Johann Hari - https://amzn.to/4nsvrAR Matt Haig - https://amzn.to/4o7CTlV Scott Erickson Paints an Honest Picture of an Advent Season of Hope - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/scott-erickson-paints-an-honest-picture-of-an-advent-season-of-hope/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: Part systems expert, part permission giver, Kendra Adachi, The Lazy Genius, has made it her mission to help you be a genius about the things that matter and lazy about the things that don’t. From simplifying a to-do list, to calming back-to-school chaos, tips on getting kids to clean their rooms, time management tips, travel hacks, recommended reading to make your life easier, Kendra’s philosophy on productivity and taming life is a zero-shame zone. See what we mean in this excerpt from Kendra’s podcast where she helps us simplify one of my favorite things, rest. Thought-provoking Quotes: “It is possible to figure out what makes you feel more like yourself. There are things that energize and wake you up and other things that fill you up.” – Kendra Adachi Resources Mentioned in This Episode: #258 - The Seven Kinds of Rest and How to Know Which One You Need - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/258-the-seven-kinds-of-rest-and-how-to-know-which-one-you-need/id1111796513?i=1000557902954 The PLAN: Manage Your Time Like a Lazy Genius by Kendra Adachi - https://amzn.to/47hKLvm Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.thelazygeniuscollective.com Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/thelazygenius/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/groups/2548803345149849 Podcast - https://www.thelazygeniuscollective.com/lazy Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: The number of people who have said, ‘Jen, you and John Fugelsang should have a conversation’ is approximately one thousand. So naturally, we thought, let’s have that conversation where a million listeners can tune in and enjoy it too. Strap yourself in for a wild ride as Jen Hatmaker chats with the ever-entertaining comedian, actor and broadcaster, John Fugelsang, host of the Tell Me Everything series on SiriusXM Progress and The John Fugelsang Podcast. In this episode, they tackle the delightful chaos of breezy topics like Christian nationalism, the real teachings of Jesus (spoiler: it's not about power), and why love trumps all—literally. With his signature blend of humor and razor-sharp insight, John dishes on his book, "Separation of Church and Hate," and why it's time to take back the Bible from the fundamentalist fun police. Get ready for a conversation that's as enlightening as a Sunday sermon, but way more fun. Whether you consider yourself religious, spiritual, atheistic, or just allergic to hypocrisy, THIS is the episode for you. Tune in, laugh, and maybe learn a thing or two! Thought-provoking Quotes: “I think the largest growing demographic we don't talk about is people who were raised religious but now consider themselves spiritual. They're not turned off to spirituality or God or Jesus or belief. They love the great mystery, but they're really turned off to the hypocrisies and the cruelties and the meanness of so many church communities in this country.” – John Fugelsang “ was raised to believe that Christianity was about the stuff that Christ taught and commanded: service to others, humility, love, acceptance, empathy, forgiving your enemies, turning the other cheek, replacing eye-for-an-eye. And the teachings of Jesus in Matthew 25, that individuals and nations are going to be judged by how they care for the poor, care for the sick, welcome the stranger, and care for the incarcerated. That's the stuff Jesus actually talked about.” – John Fugelsang “American Christians have been manipulated with all this homophobia, all this hatred of immigrants and none of that comes from Jesus and it's been done by a political movement that is only about power. Conservative Christian power, not the teachings of Christ, not the religious freedom, not fighting Satan, conservative Christian power.” – John Fugelsang “If Jesus spoke in parable and metaphor, why is it so hard to view the Bible as parable and metaphor? We get so hung up on proving the facts of the Bible that we miss the truth of the Bible. And the Bible has a lot of truth. It does not have a lot of facts.” – John Fugelsang Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Separation of Church and Hate: A Sane Person's Guide to Taking Back the Bible from Fundamentalists, Fascists, and Flock-Fleecing Frauds by John Fugelsang - https://amzn.to/4husQF3 Tell Me Everything with John Fugelsang on SiriusXM - https://www.siriusxm.com/blog/tag/john-fugelsang John’s Links: Website - https://www.johnfugelsang.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/johnfugelsang/ Twitter - https://x.com/JohnFugelsang Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/john.fugelsang.9 Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@JJbirdsong1 Substack - https://johnfugelsang.substack.com/ Podcast - https://www.johnfugelsang.com/podcast Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: For a special treat this week, we’re bringing you some highlights straight from Jen’s recent Awake book tour in a limited series we’ve dubbed “Road Trippin’ with Jen”. Every tour stop, audience, and special guest brought its own kind of magic, so we’re excited to share some of the best moments with you here on the podcast. On this Road Trippin’ stop, Jen shares the stage with two powerhouses. In Houston, board-certified OBGYN and best-selling author, Dr. Mary Claire Haver, shares her journey and insights into women's health, particularly around menopause and midlife. She unpacks our burning questions—why brain fog shows up before periods change, why sleep matters, and how a “menopause toolkit” can set us up for strength, longevity, and joy. This conversation delves into the complexities of menopause, the importance of nutrition, sleep, and movement, and the power of community and connection. Together we learn how to thrive in mind, body, and spirit during this transformative phase of life. Then we head to the Music City of Nashville, where comedian and truth-teller Heather Land talks about using humor to survive whatever garbage life throws at us, pivoting careers in midlife, and choosing honesty as a way to create belonging. Heather reminds us that laughter can be holy too, and when every other thing fails, humor has a way of breaking us open just enough to let the light in. Tune in for an evening that was equal parts comedy set, revival, and group therapy. … Thought-provoking Quotes: Perimenopause brain changes show up well before your periods go sideways.” — Dr. Mary Claire “Strength training is non-negotiable if you want to keep bone and muscle.” — Dr. Mary Claire “If you don’t laugh, you’ll cry—and sometimes the laughing saves you.” — Heather Land “Honesty is freedom. If people don’t like it, that’s on them.” — Heather Land “Staying awake isn’t just serious business—it’s about finding delight in unexpected places.” — Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Ultimate Menopause Toolkit - https://bit.ly/3WkYsDo The New Menopause: Navigating Your Path Through Hormonal Change with Purpose, Power, and Facts by Dr. Mary Claire Haver - https://amzn.to/4qBg8bU For the Love Episode 21: Series 64 - Reinventing Yourself with Heather Land - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/reinventing-yourself-with-heather-land/ Dr. Mary Claire Haver — Board-certified OB-GYN, bestselling author, leading voice on perimenopause/menopause care, and educator advocating science-based, compassionate treatment for women in midlife and beyond. Heather Land — Comedian, writer, and speaker whose viral wit opened the door to deeper storytelling. Known for pairing humor with honesty about faith, family, recovery, and midlife reinvention. Dr. Mary Claire Haver’s Links: Website - https://thepauselife.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/drmaryclaire/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/drmaryclaire/ Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@drmaryclaire TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@drmaryclaire Substack - https://drmaryclairehaver.substack.com/ Podcast - https://thepauselife.com/pages/the-unpaused-podcast Heather Land’s Links: Website - https://www.heatherlandofficial.com/ Instagram -https://www.instagram.com/heatherland_iaintdoinit Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/iaintdoinit/ Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCs4omp2klYLTOqqY56j-8Ag TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@heatherlandofficial Podcast - https://open.spotify.com/show/1c9HiacYhJDBWa2UneL7Ae?si=19c9414ec4f74953 Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. Meet the guests To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: In this episode of the Matriarchy series, we explore how deeply ingrained patriarchal narratives can create a policing effect on the behavior of women. Author, Elise Loehnen, discusses her book "On Our Best Behavior" which examines how concepts like the seven deadly sins have historically been used to restrict women's behavior and police their adherence to an idealized form of "goodness." Loehnen unpacks the insidious ways women are culturally conditioned from a young age to suppress normal human drives like anger, ambition, and sexuality. And how disrupting rigid gender stereotypes is important when raising the next generation in order to build a more compassionate world. … Thought-provoking Quotes: ★ “Women are trained for goodness; men are trained for power.” – Elise Loehnen ★ “Patriarchy isn’t just out there in systems and structures — it’s in us. It’s the air we breathe.” – Elise Loehnen ★ “A ‘good woman’ never needs anything. She has no wants, no anger, no appetite. She exists to meet everyone else’s needs — and calls it virtue.” – Elise Loehnen ★ “We are so conditioned to police ourselves that we end up policing each other.” – Elise Loehnen ★ “I hold everything I think with loose hands. This is what I know now. But I’m open to the me who might think differently later.” – Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: ➤ On Our Best Behavior by Elise Loehnen - https://bit.ly/44tz41D ➤ Goop - https://goop.com ➤ For the Love of Being Seen and Heard ft. Lori Gottlieb - https://bit.ly/4b8YT9C ➤ Maybe You Should Talk to Someone by Lori Gottlieb - https://bit.ly/3JO7FOn ➤ Evagrius Ponticus (Fourth Century Christian Monk) - https://bit.ly/4b7zEV5 ➤ Pope Gregory on the 7 Deadly Sins - https://bit.ly/3y1J1XK ➤ Harvey Weinstein Abuse Cases - https://bit.ly/4b5ktM5 ➤ Carol Gilligan - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_G... ➤ In a Different Voice by Carol Gilligan - https://bit.ly/3JQ9IBh ➤ Human Voice by Carol Gilligan - https://bit.ly/3UQ1Rcn ➤ Andrew Tate - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_... ➤ Order, Disorder, Reorder (An idea Developed by Richard Rohr) - https://bit.ly/44xzHqK ➤ For the Love of The Enneagram ft. Richard Rohr - https://bit.ly/3QzzZaW ➤ Loretta Ross - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loretta... Guest’s Links: ➤ Website: https://www.eliseloehnen.com/ ➤ Facebook: / eliseloehnen ➤ Instagram: / eliseloehnen ➤ Twitter: / eloehnen ➤ LinkedIn: / elise-loehnen-b867523 ➤ Podcast: https://www.eliseloehnen.com/episodes ➤ Blog: https://eliseloehnen.substack.com/ Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices