Deviate

“Things don’t happen in Las Vegas. Things are happened in Las Vegas. All actions in the town are so meticulously predicted and orchestrated that spontaneity itself exists only as the ghost of compulsion.” –Rolf Potts (in 1998) In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Ari discuss Rolf’s 1998 Las Vegas essay “The Mystical High Church of Luck,” and their relationship to their early creative work (2:30); how the experience of Las Vegas depends on what stage of life you’re in, how Vegas compares to New Orleans, and how Rolf and Ari have a hard time enjoying themselves when they go there (14:00); the stereotypes that surround Las Vegas, why it is difficult to write about, and how one might find original experiences there (30:00); what it would be like to live in Las Vegas, and the mysteries and mechanics of “luck” (47:00). Ari Shaffir (@AriShaffir) is a comedian, writer, podcaster, and actor. He is the host of the Skeptic Tank podcast. His latest comedy special, JEW, is available on YouTube. Las Vegas Links: The Mystical High Church of Luck, by Rolf Potts (1998 essay) Circus Circus Las Vegas (hotel and casino) Caesars Palace (casino resort in Las Vegas) Ghostbar (Las Vegas nightclub) History of Las Vegas Rat Pack (20th century Las Vegas entertainers) Casino (1995 film) At Home in the Neon, by Dave Hickey (essay) Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas (Hunter S. Thompson novel) The Hangover (2009 American comedy film) Las Vegas, Tis of Thee, by Richard Todd (essay) Fremont Street (popular gambling street in Las Vegas) Las Vegas Strip (popular gambling street) Valley of Fire State Park (recreation area near Las Vegas) Red Rock Canyon National Conservation Area SEMA auto show (car accessory convention) Las Vegas Souvenir & Resort Gift Show (convention) Other Links: Van Life before #VanLife (Deviate episode) Salvador Dalí Museum (St. Petersburg art museum) Atlantic City (casino resort city in New Jersey) March Madness (college basketball tournament) Joe Rogan (American comedian and podcaster) Odyssey: Drivi...

“Nothing against bucket lists, but sometimes that interest that makes you weird and nerdy at home is going to make you vulnerable to all the weird nerdy people in some distant new place who are also interested in that thing.” —Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and The Vagabond’s Way book club participants discuss what compels us to be interested in certain places, and how Rolf’s latest book is designed to be read over the course of a year (2:00); how nomads can create consistency and community in new places, and how to find good cities for families in Italy and the Balkans (4:45); how to find places to stay in places where last-minute reservations are hard to come by (8:30); how to choose where to go on a given vagabonding journey (13:00); how having a mission can give focus to your travels (17:45); and how guidebooks can still be a useful travel tool (21:10). Discussion moderator Luke Richardson is a traveler, author, and DJ based in England. Notable Links: The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (book) Paris Writing Workshops (Rolf’s class in France) Nottingham (city in England) Fudge Tunnel (sludge-rock band from Nottingham) Amalfi Coast (destination in Italy) CouchSurfing (homestay service) Hitching for pastries (Deviate episode) Kevin Kelly on Deviate Storming ‘The Beach,‘ by Rolf Potts (essay) Marco Polo Didn’t Go There, by Rolf Potts (book) Faroe Islands (Bradt Travel Guide) The Land of Maybe, by Tim Ecott (travel memoir) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“You hear how there’s many words for snow in native cultures in Canada; there are actually over 20 words for ‘fog’ in the Faroe Islands.” –Matthew Landrum In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Matthew discuss what makes the landscape and culture of the Faroe Islands distinctive, and how Matthew came to study Faroese (2:00); how your motivation to travel to a place affects what you see and experience there, and how isolation affects people’s worldview in a place like the Faroes (13:00); Faroese history, art, and culture, and how World War II transformed it (24:00); how the weather affects one’s experience of the Faroe Islands, and what it’s like to travel there (34:00); and how the Faroe Islands have changed — and stayed the same — over the years (46:00). Matthew Landrum (@MatthewLandrum) is a writer, speaker, and teacher. He is the translator of Faroese poet Katrin Ottarsdottir’s Are There Copper Pipes in Heaven, and the author of Berlin Poems. He lives in Detroit where he teaches at a private school for students on the autism spectrum. Faroese music, art, and literature links: Eivør Pálsdóttir (Faroese singer-songwriter) Teitur Lassen (Faroese singer-songwriter) Christine De Luca (Shetlandic poet) Viking metal (music subgenre) Týr (Faroese folk metal band) Trom (TV series set in the Faroe Islands) William Heinesen (Faroese novelist and painter) Magic realism (style of literary fiction) Faroese ballads (traditional music and dance) Ring Cycles (Germanic heroic legends) Völsunga saga (Norse saga involving dragons) Hjalmar and Ingeborg (Faroese ballad) Faroese travel, language, and geography links: Streymoy (largest and most populated of the Faroe Islands) Tórshavn (capital city of the Faroe Islands) International Summer Institute in Faroese Language Norn language (extinct North Germanic language) Týr (Norse god of war) The case for trekking on foot (Deviate episode) Vágar Airport (only airport in the Faroes) Akvavit (Scandinavian distilled spirit) Kirkjubøur (cathedral-ruin village in the Faroes) Gásadalur (village near Múlafossur Waterfall)

“”I wasn’t partying. I wasn’t relaxing on the beach. I was photographing – working – every minute of the day. That was a means to see as much as I possibly could. And to keep looking.” –Kevin Kelly In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Kevin discuss the ambitions and connections that led Kevin to Asia not long after high school (2:30); how Kevin’s interest in photography affected his experience of Asia (7:30); how seeing other cultures gave him perspective on his own culture, and on himself, and his countrymen (15:00); how photography gave him intensified attention to what in the world might be changing (23:00); how AI and other technology are changing how we live, create, and travel (30:00); how to travel in such a way that you are open to phenomenon and experiences you don’t know of yet, and how technology might enable a “protopia” future (40:00). Kevin Kelly (@kevin2kelly) is a co-founder of Wired magazine, a co-founder of the Rosetta Project, and he serves on the board of the Long Now Foundation. He is a photographer, writer, and futurist, with much of his work centering on Asian and digital culture. His three-volume photo book Vanishing Asia draws on 50 years of vagabonding travel experiences, and his newest book, Excellent Advice for Living: Wisdom I Wish I’d Known Earlier, debuts in May of 2023. Notable Links: The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (book) Leaves of Grass, by Walt Whitman (poetry book) Communitas (egalitarian ethos of shared interest) Jan Chipchase (design innovator) Wired (magazine) Rick Prelinger (American archivist) Stewart Brand (founder of the Whole Earth Catalog) Shenzhen (city in China) A Pattern Language (1977 urban design book) “What AI-Generated Art Means for Human Creativity” (article) “A Brief History of Smell-O-Vision” (article) Burning Man (event in the US) Kumbh Mela (event in India) Musical.ly (defunct social media app) “Forget Utopia. Ignore Dystopia. Embrace Protopia!” (article) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“Success is often about finding just enough material wealth to fund the life that makes you happy.” —Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and The Nomadic Network book club participants discuss how travel can intensify the attention you pay to life at home (2:30); how the best discoveries of travel can’t be planned, and how you can give yourself permission to travel at all ages in life (10:30); how travel can give you perspective on the notion of “success” (22:00); what various book club participants have learned from (and discovered on) their travels (34:00); and the details of Rolf’s annual Travel Memoir writing class in Paris (41:00). Notable Links: The Nomadic Network book club (online events with Rolf) Marco Polo Didn’t Go There book club (Deviate episode) The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (book) Rolf’s 2022 appearance on the Tim Ferriss Show (podcast) On Kawara (Japanese conceptual artist) Mallory Square (waterfront plaza in Key West) Oia (village on the Greek island of Santorini) Tony Perrottet on Deviate (podcast episode) Real on the Road (David Hunter Bishop travel blog) Rolf traveling with Sudanese in Syria (blog dispatch) Sei Shōnagon (10th century Japanese author) John Muir (American naturalist and author) Gobi Desert (arid region in East Asia) Van life before #VanLife (Deviate episode) Søren Kierkegaard (Danish philosopher) Bennifer (high-profile celebrity relationship) Paris Writing Workshop (Rolf’s summer writing classes) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“Travel has become a way to remind myself how it feels to get lost, and then get unlost. It is a way to remember the discomfort of uncertainty and the unfamiliar. It’s an exercise in receiving the unexpected.” –Kristin Van Tassel In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Kristin discuss being in DC, living in Kansas, and Kristin’s family trip to Mexico using migrant-economy buses (1:30); how seeking international restaurants and grocery stores at home can be a window into distant cultures (8:00); Kristin’s motivation to learn Spanish in middle age, and how it connects to her perspective as a teacher (16:00); Kristin’s harrowing experience of getting lost on a run in Nairobi in 1990, and how getting lost in a place is a way of experiencing it in a deeper way (20:30); how Kristin experienced the country and culture of Moldova through soups and salads while being hosted there by a former student (34:30); and how to stay open to being lost without compromising yourself, and embrace unfamiliar languages as a traveler and learner (41:00). Kristin Van Tassel teaches writing and American literature at Bethany College in Lindsborg, Kansas. She writes essays and poetry about place, teaching, motherhood, and travel. Notable Links: National Portrait Gallery (art museum in Washington, DC) Lindsborg (Swedish-American town in Kansas) Long-distance hiking at home (Deviate episode) Guanajuato (city in Mexico) Zacatecas (state in Mexico) Meeting Sudanese refugees in Syria (dispatch by Rolf Potts) Hmong people (ethnic group in Southeast Asia) Salina (small city in Kansas) Kimchi (Korean side-dish) “Swamp Creatures,” by Kristin Van Tassel (essay) “Swallowing Fear in San Miguel de Allende” (essay) Hangul (Korean writing system) Punta del Diablo (beach village in Uruguay) Nairobi (capital city of Kenya) Rolf’s 2010 no-baggage round-the-world journey The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (book) Chișinău (capital city of Moldova) Anna Gabur’s baking-themed Instagram Borscht (Eastern European soup) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album

“Running back John Levi is about as easy to stop as a 200-pound eel. With his speed, and his shifting, sidestepping style of running, tacklers slide off of him like rain off a slicker.” –From the Minneapolis Star, October 1923 In this episode of Deviate, Rolf talks about a 1927 football game between the New York Giants and an all-indigenous Oklahoma team called the Hominy Indians, and how the team’s star player, John Levi, was the father of Rolf’s junior high gym coach (0:00); John Levi’s early years as a football player at Haskell Institute, and Haskell’s games against teams like Baylor and Minnesota (5:00); Haskell’s game against the Quantico Marines at Yankee Stadium, and how it led to John Levi being offered a baseball contract (10:30); how professional football was different in the 1920s than it is now (14:00); how Osage County, Oklahoma was in the midst of an oil boom in the 1920s (17:30) the specifics of the 1927 New York Giants versus Hominy Indians game (20:30); and how John Levi’s legacy was embodied by his son, a U.S. Marine veteran who later became a physical education teacher in Wichita, Kansas (22:30). John Levi, Jr. served as a medic for the First Marine Division during the Korean War. He later taught physical education for several decades at Hadley Junior High School in Wichita, Kansas. Now retired, he lives in Green Valley, Arizona. Sports-related Links: John Levi (Arapaho multi-sport athlete) Hominy Indians (1920s Oklahoma football team) 1927 New York Giants (football team) Playground of the Native Son (2013 film) “They Might be Giants” (article about the Hominy-Giants game) Super Bowl 57 (NFL football championship) Jim Thorpe (Sac and Fox Nation multi-sport athlete) Barry Sanders (NFL running back) Patrick Mahomes (NFL quarterback) 1923 Quantico Marines Devil Dogs (football team) Red Grange (college and NFL running back) Olympics amateurism rules (aristocratic sporting ethos) Harrisburg Senators (minor-league baseball team) History of the National Football League Pottsville Maroons (defunct NFL football team) Kansas City Cowboys (defunct NFL football team) Akron Pros (defunct NFL football team) Buffalo Bisons (defunct NFL football team) Barnstorming (traveling sports exhibitions) John Mosier (NFL tight end...

“For ancient Roman tourists, the whole point of travel was to go where everyone else was going. Sightseeing was a form of pilgrimage.” –Tony Perrottet In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Tony discuss the habits idiosyncrasies of ancient Roman tourists, and how they relate to modern travel (1:30); the class tensions and expectations inherent in different types of modern and historical travelers, and how the “unexpected” affects these journeys (17:00); the appeal of Egypt to both ancient and modern tourists (22:30); how mythic ages can be a prism through which to see a place (33:00); how travel and geographical endeavor is an important task for a historian (44:30); and how the experience of travel has and hasn’t changed over the years (55:30). Tony Perrottet (@TonyPerrottet) is the author of six books, including Pagan Holiday: On the Trail of Ancient Roman Tourists; The Sinner’s Grand Tour: A Journey Through the Historical Underbelly of Europe; and The Naked Olympics: The True Story of the Greek Games. Notable Links: The Nomadic Network book club (online events with Rolf) Vagabond’s Way sweepstakes (online giveaway) Yousuf Karsh (Canadian photographer) Petra (ancient Nabataean city in Jordan) Troy (ancient city in modern-day Turkey) Grand Tour (travel rite from 17th-19th centuries) Explorer’s Club (professional society in New York) Lionel Casson (historian who wrote on ancient Rome) Ludwig Friedländer (scholar who wrote on ancient Rome) Wenamun (ancient Egyptian traveler) Appian Way (ancient Roman road) Gladiator (2000 film) Sultan Hotel (Rolf’s favorite hostel in Cairo) Valley of the Kings (ancient tomb complex in Egypt) Felucca (Mediterranean sailing boat) Egypt’s Entrepreneur Awards Belle Époque (period of French history) Giacomo Casanova (Italian adventurer) Johann Wolfgang von Goethe (German poet) Theseus (mythical Athenian king) Nero (Roman emperor) Ephesus (ancient Greek city) The ancient Greek Olympics (Deviate episode) Sagas of Icelanders (medieval narratives) Alhambra (Islamic-era fortress in Spain) <...

“A willingness to fail is an important part of difficult beauty. Because difficult beauty will arrive first not as beauty at all.” –Chloe Cooper Jones In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Chloe discuss the philosophical concept of “easy beauty” and “difficult beauty” in the context of travel (2:30); how our relationship to places changes over time with repeated exposure (15:00); how art and travel, home and adventure, became important aspects of Chloe’s life (23:00); how the archetype of the “Hero’s Journey” evokes aspects of home as well as travel (35:30); Chloe’s investigation and experience of “dark tourism” in Cambodia, and how it gave her perspective on how other people view her disability (45:15) and how there’s no easy way to navigate the polarities of the self, but trying to do so can result in a hard-won experience of beauty (1:08:00). Chloe Cooper Jones (@CCooperJones) is the author of Easy Beauty: A Memoir. She has been a Pulitzer Prize finalist in Feature Writing, and was the recipient of a Whiting Creative Nonfiction Grant, as well as a Howard Foundation Grant from Brown University. Notable Links: Bernard Bosanquet (English philosopher) Sublime (philosophical concept) Paris Writing Workshops (Rolf’s summer writing classes) The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (book) Lake Como (lake region in Italy) “The Loss of the Creature,” essay by Walker Percy Teotihuacan (pyramid site in Mexico) Pico Iyer (travel writer) Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance (book) Quality (philosophical concept) “Such Perfection,” (Believer essay by Chloe Cooper Jones) The High Line (elevated greenway park in New York City) Roland Barthes (French literary theorist) Souvenir, by Rolf Potts (book) The Sheltering Sky, by Paul Bowles (novel) Heroes of the Fourth Turning (2019 play by Will Arbery) “The Grateful Acre,” monologue from Arbery’s play Hero’s journey (narrative template) Minangkabau people (ethnic group in Sumatra) Wanderjahre (journeyman tradition in Germany) Gyoza (Chinese dumplings) Thich Nhat Hanh (...

“Travel is one of the few activities we engage in not knowing the outcome and reveling in that uncertainty. Nothing is more forgettable than the trip that goes exactly as planned.” –Eric Weiner In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Eric discuss the tendency of travelers to idealize the very recent bygone past in places, and Rolf’s experience of traveling by freighter ship (2:00); Eric’s satisfaction in returning to places he’s visited before, such as India, and how to remain open to uncertainty and surprise on the road (9:30); how conversations about travel differ from generation to generation, culture to culture, person to person (20:00); what it was like for Eric to have his book The Geography of Bliss adapted into a TV show, and the nuances behind the concept of “happiness” (28:30); how the experience of travel is inevitably intertwined with the experience of home (38:00); how luxury hotels can insulate you from the experience of a place, and how “adventure travel” is modern concept (43:30); and how Eric’s relationship to home, and to time, has changed over the years (58:30). Eric Weiner (@Eric_Weiner) is an award-winning journalist, bestselling author, and speaker. His books include The Socrates Express, and The Geography of Bliss, which is being made into a six-part docu-series, featuring actor Rainn Wilson, and due to air on NBC’s Peacock streaming service. For more about Eric, check out https://ericweinerbooks.com/ Notable Links: Philosophy compels us to live better (Deviate episode) Rainn Wilson and the Geography of Bliss (TV series) The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (book) Boatswain (deck boss on a freighter ship) Seven Pillars of Wisdom (book by T.E. Lawrence) Eric Weiner’s Atlas of Ideas (email newsletter) Keitai denwa (Japanese mobile phone culture) Grunge (1990s alternative music culture) K-Pop (Korean popular music) Hangul (Korean alphabet) World Happiness Report Rainn Wilson (TV actor and producer) Quilts for Kids Nepal (nonprofit organization) Ibn Battuta (medieval Moroccan traveler) Beryl Markham (aviator and author) Kamba (ethnic group in Kenya) Thar Desert (arid region in India) The Geography of Genius, by Eric Weiner (book) Yi-Fu Tuan (Chinese-American geographer) “Little Gid...

“Travel expands time, because you’re not experiencing the everyday of what you normally do. It’s all about discovery, and experiencing that with other people.” —Pegi Vail In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Pegi talk about how she originally sought to depict a “visual ethnography” of world travelers, their global impacts, and their power as a “gentrifying” force (2:00); how the world of travel has (and hasn’t) changed since Pegi made her film ten years ago, and how immigrants and migrant workers also represent travel communities just like backpackers and expats (11:00); the ways the notion of “journey” can serve as a metaphor for non-travel experiences, and how travel can expand one’s sense of time (26:30); what stories travelers choose to tell about places, and how drug-scenes have fueled travel communitas over the years (31:00); the role digital photography now plays in travel, and the individualized notion of what an “explorer” is (39:30); and the importance of allowing yourself to get lost on that road, the “structured danger” of most adventure travel, and relying on your “personness” (rather than technology) as a traveler (49:00). Pegi Vail is an anthropologist and filmmaker who directed the documentary Gringo Trails. She is also a sustainable-travel consultant whose academic work has focused on visual anthropology, Indigenous media, and the role of storytelling to the political economy of tourism in the developing world. She is the Co-Director of New York University’s Center for Media, Culture, and History. Vail is a founding member, curator, and featured storyteller of the popular not-for-profit storytelling collective, The Moth. Notable Links: The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (travel book) Williamsburg (gentrified neighborhood in Brooklyn) Banana Pancake Trail (travel circuit in SE Asia) Lower East Side Tenement Museum (historic site in NYC) History of hosteling (inexpensive lodging system) Hippie Trail (overland travel circuit in 1960s and 1970s) The Great Gatsby, by F. Scott Fitzgerald (novel) Hmong people (ethic group in SE Asia) Nelson H. H. Graburn (anthropology scholar) Communitas (communities created by shared endeavor) Arnold van Gennep (ethnographer who coined “rites of passage”) Chaebol (South Korean industrial conglomerate) Rolf and Ari Shaffir talk psychedelics (Deviate episode) Backpack Ambassadors, by Richard Ivan Jobs (book) Margaret Mead Film Festival (documentary film festival) Spike Lee (American filmmaker) Melvin Estrella (Pegi’s partner and film producer) J. Edgar...

“Why fly fourteen hours from New York to Johannesburg to see a South African version of Brooklyn? To me, the only reason to know what destinations are ‘hot’ is to avoid them.” —Seth Kugel In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Seth talk about how the travel industry both helps and hinders the travel experience, and how Seth first experienced travel when he was young (1:30); tourist desire, the “beaten path,” and the contradictions of what travelers seek in AirBnbs and related property-renting services (10:30); dealing with language barriers overseas, and social versus literal risks overseas (20:00); balancing general tourist advice versus nuanced insights as a travel writer, and the role new technologies play in travel decisions (27:00); and why it’s a good idea to avoid places that have been deemed “trendy,” and how to break out of the bad habits of travel (40:30). Seth Kugel (@sethkugel) is a travel writer, freelance journalist, and host of the Amigo Gringo YouTube channel. He was the Frugal Traveler columnist for the New York Times from 2010 to 2016, and he is most recently the author of the book Rediscovering Travel: A Guide for the Globally Curious. For more on Seth, check out his website http://sethkugel.com/ Notable Links: The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (travel book) Transnistria (breakaway part of Moldova) Nagorno-Karabakh (breakaway part of Azerbaijan) The World in a Selfie, by Marco D’Eramo (book) Principe Real (neighborhood in Lisbon) Wichita Vortex Sutra (poem by Allen Ginsberg) Nancy Mitford (English novelist) Barbarian Days, by William Finnegan (book) Arthur Frommer (guidebook writer) Bukittinggi (city in Sumatra) Malcolm X (American activist and traveler) Bangkok Post (English-language newspaper in Thailand) Hindustan Times (English-language newspaper in India) “Free Fallin’” (song by Tom Petty) Punta Cana (resort town in the Dominican Republic) “Driving Through the Heartland,” by Seth Kugel (article) Chicken Annie’s and Chicken Mary’s (Kansas restaurants) Red Queen’s race...

“There’s no getting lost when you travel, because you’re already there. You’re already where you’re supposed to be, which is somewhere in this new place.” –Ari Shaffir In this episode of Deviate, which took place at New York City’s KGB Bar, Rolf and Ari talk about the premise of Rolf’s new book The Vagabond’s Way (2:20); why it’s important not to postpone one’s dream travels to a seemingly more appropriate time of life, and how it’s hard for your friends to appreciate and understand your travels when you get home (7:30); how to not let your smartphones and photographs get in the way of your best journey (15:00); how to best decide where to start on a journey, and why allowing yourself to get lost is sometimes the best way to find experiences a place (23:00); why the philosophical concept of “time wealth” is important to Rolf, and how travel allows you to express a unique feeling freedom (31:30); how the The Vagabond’s Way is the “spiritual successor” to Vagabonding, and how Rolf keeps travel in conversation with his home life in Kansas (36:00); and how to savor a new place in the moment, even as that place is changing (44:00). Ari Shaffir (@AriShaffir) is a comedian, writer, podcaster, and actor. He is the host of the Skeptic Tank podcast. His new comedy special, JEW, is available on YouTube. Notable Links: Paris Writing Workshops (Rolf’s summer creative writing classes) The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (travel book) Henry Rollins on Ari’s podcast Skeptic Tank Commonplace book (method of compiling knowledge) Jasmin Shah (photographer) Wenamun (ancient Egyptian traveler) Matsuo Bashō, (Japanese poet and traveler) On Photography, by Susan Sontag (book) Mentawai people (inhabitants of islands near Sumatra) Cypress Hill (American hip-hop group) Pico Iyer (travel writer) Pagan Holiday, by Tony Perrottet (book) Icelandic Sagas (Nordic historic narratives) Koshary (Egyptian national dish) Chefchaouen (city in Morocco) Tétouan (city in Morocco) Inle Lake (lake in Myanmar) Eddy L. Harris (travel writer) Aosta Valley (region in the Italian Alps) Instagram shot of Rolf’s first vagabonding trip Mary Oliver (American poet) Lindsborg, Kansas (“Little Sweden”)

“Travel is often one part geography and nine parts imagination.” –Kate Harris In this episode of Deviate Rolf and Kate discuss how travel can transform one’s idea of what “exploration” is (3:00); the concept of borders (14:00); nostalgia and the transformational effect of travel (25:00); the role of home in relation to travel (34:00); and letting adventure into your life (44:00). Kate Harris (@kateonmars) is an adventure writer, named by Condé Nast Traveler as one of the “world’s most adventurous women.” Her work has appeared in Outside, The Walrus, and Georgia Review. Her book, Lands of Lost Borders, is a national bestseller For more about Kate, check out www.kateharris.ca Notable Links: Rolf’s Q&A with Kate Harris (book foreword) Silk Road (network of trade routes) Ernest Shackleton (explorer) Fridtjof Nansen (explorer) Annie Dillard (American author) Wind, Sand and Stars, by Antoine de Saint-Exupery (book) Henry David Thoreau (writer) My Journey to Lhasa, by Alexandra David-Neel (book) Aksai Chin (region administered by China) Marco Polo (historical figure) Tomas Tranströmer (poet) Atlin (community in British Columbia) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“I didn’t know where we were going, and I didn’t know how long we were going to be gone. I brought no food, not even a bottle of water. When that boat left the dock, I felt so free. I threw off all these anxieties about control.” –Carl Hoffman In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Carl talk about the premise of The Lunatic Express, which took Carl around the world on a series of local buses, trains, planes, and ferries (2:30); how to overcome the common fears of traveling in this manner, and how tourism infrastructure isn’t required for travel in places (9:30); how making yourself vulnerable to new places leaves you open to the people who live there (22:30); the role that simple conversation, smells, and open-ended activity plays in the lives of isolated communities (30:00); and Carl’s advice for leaving yourself open to spontaneous travel experiences (40:00). Carl Hoffman (@lunaticcarl) is the author of four books, including The Lunatic Express, and Savage Harvest: A Tale of Cannibals, Colonialism, and Michael Rockefeller’s Tragic Quest. Notable Links: People, Places & Things (play starring Kristen Bush) Meridian Hill Park (urban park in DC) Maggie Downs (travel writer) “Strange Bird” (Outside article about a pilot in the Congo) Moluccas (archipelago in Indonesia) Asmat (region in Papua) Sambal (Indonesian chili sauce) Buru (island in Indonesia) Pramoedya Ananta Toer (Indonesian novelist) Suharto (Indonesian president from 1967-1998) Sons of the Waves, by Stephen Taylor (book about sailors) Sago (palm starch used for food) Cando (town in North Dakota) Mentawai Islands (archipelago in Indonesia) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“Eat what is put in front of you. They are not making fun of you. The rooster’s head floating in the soup really is given to the honored guest. If you insist on being a picky eater, stay home.” –Tim Cahill In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Tim talk about the premise of Tim’s classic essay “Professor Cahill’s Travel 101” (1:30); the importance of having a “quest” on a journey (8:00); how boredom can enhance the experience of travel, and why rest-days are important to a journey (15:00); why one should avoid whining (and compulsively talking about bowel movements) on group journeys (21:00); why packing too much gear — and obsessively trying to save money on the road — can be counterproductive to engaged travel (25:00); why it’s important to be daring with trying new food on the road (40:00); and why bad travel experiences make for better stories than pleasant ones (45:00). Tim Cahill is a journalist, author, and pioneering travel writer. For more from Tim, check out his Rolling Stone and Outside archives, or his 2004 Q&A with Rolf. Notable Links: The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (travel book) Outside (magazine) Hold the Enlightenment, by Tim Cahill (book) Stoicism (ancient philosophy) Royal Commentaries of the Incas, by Garcilaso de la Vega (book) Francisco Pizarro (Spanish conquistador) Book Passage Travel Writers Conference The Old Patagonian Express, by Paul Theroux (book) Uinta Mountains (mountain range in Utah) 1989 Tiananmen Square protests and massacre Fish River Canyon (canyon in Namibia) Richard Bangs (travel-TV host and author) Leimebamba (province in Peru) Skua (predatory seabirds common in Antarctic regions) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“When you’re not sitting across from someone, you’re sitting across from the whole world.” –Stephanie Rosenbloom In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Stephanie talk about the rewards of traveling alone, and how to mix solo and companion travel within a single trip (2:00); how going alone makes you more receptive to museums, restaurants, and walking in a new play (11:00); how to better savor your travel experiences while they’re happening (21:00); certifying versus savoring experiences, and how to balance travel as an external act with a more spiritual internal process (31:00); and strategies for savoring solo travel experiences (46:00). Stephanie Rosenbloom (@stephronyt) is a travel writer for The New York Times, where she has been a reporter for more than a decade, and the author of the book, Alone Time: Four Seasons, Four Cities, and the Pleasures of Solitude. For more about Stephanie, check out http://www.stephanierosenbloom.com. Notable Links: The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (travel book) On Karawa (Japanese conceptual artist) Flâneur (urban stroller in France) The Marais (district in Paris) The Motorcycle Diaries, by Ernesto Guevara (book) Thích Nhất Hạnh (Buddhist monk and author) Savoring, by Fred B. Bryant (book) Uffizi (art museum in Florence, Italy) The Birth of Venus (painting by Botticelli) LiveTrekker (route-tracking app) Souvenir, by Rolf Potts (book) Busking (street performance) Evernote (task-management app) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“A travel journal helps you remember more than what you did and saw. It will helps you remember how you became the person you are today.” –Lavinia Spalding In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Lavinia talk about the section of Rolf’s book The Vagabond’s Way that touches on travel journaling, what what purposes a travel journal can serve (1:30); how journals give you perspective on the person you used to be, and how the journaling habit develops over time (9:00); strategies for being vulnerable and honest in a travel journal (15:00); strategies for being consistent with a journal on the road (19:00); employing non-visual senses and evoking less-than-ideal experiences to capture more subtle textures in a travel journal (25:30); how a journal gives you a pretext to approach and even interview people who interest you on the road (33:00); how to take notes in the field, how to maintain an ongoing relationship with old travel journals, and why travel journals serve to make a journey more meaningful (41:00). Lavinia Spalding (@laviniaspalding) is a travel writer and series editor of The Best Women’s Travel Writing. She has author of Writing Away, and co-author of With a Measure of Grace and This Immeasurable Place. For more about Lavinia, check out http://laviniaspalding.com/. Notable Links: Jack London (novelist and journalist) Busan (city in South Korea) Before Sunrise (1995 Richard Linklater movie) Bullet journal (method of note-taking) Clove cigarettes Rainer Maria Rilke (Austrian poet) Khentrul Lodro Thaye Rinpoche (Buddhist lama) Head, Shoulders, Knees and Toes (children’s song) Vagabonding, by Rolf Potts (book) Travel Writing and Global Change (TEDx talk by Lavinia Spalding) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“When you travel, you find out what it is you really want. You find out what you’re capable of, what your ambitions are.” –Paul Theroux In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Paul talk about how brotherly conflict is a time-honored trope in literature, and how travel can be a way to find your interests and ambitions in life (3:00); the ethical paradoxes and hypocrisies of global charities and industries in a resource-rich place like Africa (9:30); how writing fiction differs from writing nonfiction (19:00); and where Theroux is headed next (22:00). Paul Theroux (@PaulTheroux_) is a pioneer of travel writing and author of many highly acclaimed books, including The Great Railway Bazaar, The Tao of Travel, and On the Plain of Snakes. His newest novel is The Bad Angel Brothers. Notable Links: The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (travel book) Paul Theroux on the art of listening (Deviate episode) Paul Theroux on the inherent complexity of Mexico (Deviate episode) The Great Railway Bazaar, by Paul Theroux (travel book) Figures in a Landscape, by Paul Theroux (essay collection) Cain and Abel (Biblical brothers) East of Eden, by John Steinbeck (novel) Cobalt mining in Africa Tim Cook (CEO of Apple, Inc.) Big-box store (large-scale retail system) Chinese industry in Africa NAFTA (free-trade agreement) Malawi (country in southeastern Africa) Phil Knight (CEO of Nike) Dark Star Safari, by Paul Theroux (travel book) PrairyErth, by William Least Heat-Moon (book) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“This is your one life. Think about it: If you dream of travel, it’s not as hard as you might think. You can find ways to make it happen.” –Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Ernest talk about how “vagabonding” is defined, how Rolf has come to define home, and what the premise of The Vagabond’s Way is (2:00); how Rolf researched and organized the quotes and anecdotes and philosophies that went into the book (10:00); how mistakes and misadventures are an inevitable part of the travel process, and how time is one’s truest form of wealth (14:30); how the quiet experience of travel counts for more in life than travel that is performed for status (20:00); how no amount of planning can prepare you for the discoveries of each new day on the road, and how curiosity is more important than expertise on the road (27:30); how over-dependence on technology can compromise the novel experience of travel (33:30); advice for people leaving their country for the first time, advice for people traveling inside the US, and advice for keeping travel fresh over the long-term (38:00). Ernest White II (@ernestwhiteii) is a storyteller, explorer, producer, and host of the television travel series Fly Brother, now in its second season on PBS and Create TV. Check out his subscription-based membership community, Fly Brother & Friends, which promotes travel and personal transformation. Notable Links: Vagabonding, by Rolf Potts (book) The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (book) Mary Oliver (American poet) Ross Gay (American poet and essayist) Thích Nhất Hạnh (Buddhist monk and author) The Daily Stoic, by Ryan Holiday (book) Commonplace book (compilation of knowledge) “Song of the Open Road,” by Walt Whitman (poem) Memento mori (philosophy) Souvenir, by Rolf Potts (book) Damara (mountain-dwelling people in Namibia) Duvall Street (tourist district on Key West) Bukittinggi (city in Sumatra) Randang (Minangkabau meat dish) Culture shock (cross-cultural anxiety) Isan (rural northeastern region of Thailand) Sørumsand (town in Norway) Fly Brother Season Two (TV show season) Junction City (town in Kansas) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lu

“I didn’t go to Africa to “feel African,” or become African. What I wanted to do was put myself in the shoes of the person I was traveling next to.” –Eddy L. Harris In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Eddy discuss why Eddy’s Africa travel book Native Stranger was not always well-received by America’s cultural gatekeepers in 1992 (3:30); what is was like for Eddy to travel as a Black American in Africa in the 1990s, and how his experiences there became a book (12:30); how Africa has changed, and is changing (24:00); observations of Native Stranger that Rolf quoted in The Vagabond’s Way, such as how to deal with beggars on the road (30:00); and Eddy’s experiences being a Black American in France, and his core motivation for travel (37:00). Eddy Harris (@EddyLHarris) is a writer, filmmaker, and author of several books, including Mississippi Solo, Native Stranger, and Still Life in Harlem. Notable Links: Luxembourg Garden (park in Paris) South of Haunted Dreams, by Eddy L. Harris (travel book) Malcolm X (American activist) Alex Haley (American author) Jufureh (town in the Gambia) Taxi Brousse (share taxi common in Africa) Soho Square (garden square in London) Cape Coast Castle (“slave pen” fort in Ghana) Mobutu Sese Seko (ruler of Zaire from 1965 to 1997) Robert Mugabe (ruler of Zimbabwe from 1980 to 2017) Albert Pujols (baseball player) Central African Republic (nation) Josephine Baker (American dancer who moved to France) Normandy (region in France) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“Naysayers can be the biggest obstacle for people who want to travel. Even if they know nothing about a place, they’ll think of reasons why you shouldn’t go there.” –Ari Shaffir In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Ari discuss how the experience of travel changes as you get older, what it’s like to record an interview in public in Paris, and how loneliness compels you to be a better traveler (2:00); what it was like to workshop travel stories in class, and how writing for the page compares to writing for the comedy stage (12:00); Rolf quotes Ari from The Vagabond’s Way about why it’s OK to get lost when you travel, and what it’s like when you wander out of tourist zones in another country (22:30); and how naysayers can preempt your travel ambitions if you listen to them (46:30). Ari Shaffir (@AriShaffir) is a comedian, writer, podcaster, and actor. He is the host of the Skeptic Tank podcast. For more information on Ari, visit his website. Notable Links: Paris Writing Workshops (travel writing class) Luxembourg Garden (park in Paris) The Vagabond’s Way (Rolf’s newest book) Souvenir, by Rolf Potts (book) Deviate Live in NYC (podcast episode) Thích Nhat Hanh (Buddhist monk) Callback (comedy) Xylia Buros: Nomad (podcast episode) The Book of Delights, by Ross Gay (book) High Times (magazine) Chefchaouen (town in Morocco) Tétouan (city in Morocco) Tataouine (city in Tunisia) Farang (Asian slang for white European) Kathoey (trans identity in Thailand) Boney M (Caribbean pop group) Marco Polo Didn’t Go There, by Rolf Potts (book) Felucca (Egyptian boat) Temple of Hatshepsut (Egyptian temple) Dili (city in East Timor) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“At its best, travel is embraced not as a flashy backdrop for our lifestyle ambitions, but as an act that touches every aspect of our being.” –Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf reads the introduction chapter from his latest book, The Vagabond’s Way, which debuts on October 4th (and is available for preorder now from your favorite bookstore).

“I think sometimes as travel writers our most important job is to be a listener — to listen to the stories that people are telling each other in a place.” –Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Ernest talk about why home is such an important place in one’s life, even when one travels to more far-flung places (3:00); why the vagabonding ethos begins with the willingness to give oneself permission to travel in life, and how Rolf’s new book, The Vagabond’s Way, furthers the vagabonding ethos in a daily-reading format (15:00); the difficulty of figuring out which place in the world is your “favorite,” and how food becomes a part of one’s iconic travel memories (32:00); and why it helps to be confident and “ride tall in the saddle” if you sometimes feel out of place as a traveler (41:00). Ernest White II (@ernestwhiteii) is a storyteller, explorer, producer, and host of the television travel series Fly Brother, now in its second season on PBS and Create TV. Check out his subscription-based membership community, Fly Brother & Friends, which promotes travel and personal transformation. Ernest will moderate Rolf’s virtual launch event for The Vagabond’s Way at 5pm PT on October 4th, 2022. Notable Links: TV host Ernest White II (Deviate episode two) “Pandemic love” Deviate episode Deviate episode with filmmaker Rod Pocowatchit Deviate episode with baseball historian Phil S. Dixon Kansas City Monarchs (Negro Leagues baseball team) Gordon Parks (Kansas-born photographer and filmmaker) Nicodemus, Kansas (town settled by African Americans) Lindsborg, Kansas (Swedish-American town in Kansas) Zacatecas (state in Mexico) Van life before #VanLife (Deviate episode) Expat life in Korea (Deviate episode) Commonplace book (method of compiling knowledge) The Daily Stoic, by Ryan Holiday (book) Matsuo Bashō (medieval Japanese poet and traveler) Wenamun (ancient Egyptian traveler) Muhammad Ali (boxer) Code-switching (situational linguistic alternation) https://rolfpotts.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/Fly-Brother-Kansas.mp4 The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lu

“One thing we like to say [in Antarctica] is that nothing on the continent can kill you, except for the entire continent.” –Karen Pszonka In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Karen talk about how Karen first got a job in Antarctica (1:40); what weather is like during the Antarctic winter, the research being done at McMurdo, and a penguin named “Buddy” (8:00); what the landscape working conditions, and living conditions are like in Antartica (24:00); what community life is like among the people who live and work in Antarctica (42:15); and the best and worst aspects of working in Antarctica, and how one might go about applying for a job there (1:02:00). Karen Pszonka (@zonks) works as support staff for the United States Antarctic Program‘s science research at McMurdo Station. Notable Links: Ice Bound, by Dr. Jerri Nielsen (book) Terra Incognita: Travels in Antarctica, by Sara Wheeler (book) Doomsday Glacier (Antarctic glacier) Europa (moon of the planet Jupiter) IceCube (neutrino observatory at the South Pole) Sea spider (marine arthropod) Ob tube (research instrument) Sea angel (type of sea slug) Royal Society Range (mountain range in Antarctica) Hut Point (peninsula in Antarctica) Medevac (medical evacuation) Manhauling (human-powered sledges) The Nutcracker (ballet) Skua (type of bird) U.S. Antarctic Program job opportunities The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“I told him, ‘You didn’t have a long, lucrative NBA career, but that doesn’t make you a failure. Yet if you let other people tell your story, that’s how you’re going to be depicted.” –Dr. Kevin Harrison In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Kevin talk about how Kevin started writing what he calls “smut novels,” how he sold them at the grassroots level, and how people reacted to them (3:30); what it’s like to represent lesser-known places like Wichita in urban fiction and other writing, and how Kevin came to co-write NBA player Korleone Young’s book (20:00); and the way Kevin’s music is another form of storytelling that draws on specific experiences and places (29:30). Dr. Kevin Harrison is a writer, musician, and assistant teaching professor at Wichita State University. He is the author of Cameron Banks: The Reality Show, and co-author of One and Done: The Korleone Young Story. Notable Links: Urban fiction (literary genre) Kaye-Monk-Morgan on Deviate Korleone Young (basketball player) Zane (erotic fiction author) Oliver Twist (Charles Dickens novel) Iceberg Slim (writer and former pimp) Dolemite (Rudy May Moore film) Gordon Parks (Kansas-born photographer and filmmaker) She’s Gotta Have It (1986 Spike Lee film) Selena Montgomery (pen name of politician Stacey Abrams) Barry Sanders (football player) Curtis McClinton (football player) The Forgotten Phenom, by Jonathan Abrams (article) LeBron James (basketball player) Hot Water Cornbread (Kevin Harrison song) Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“I talked as much about the National Basketball Association in Syria as I did about politics. Syrians felt so global and interested in everything. As a young backpacker, I don’t know that I appreciated the historical moment that I was in.” –Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Shaun talk about how they first came to know of Father Paolo and Deir Mar Musa monastery in Syria (3:00); the warm and hospitable experience of traveling in other parts of the country (10:00); Father Paolo’s “interfaith dialogue” initiatives at Deir Mar Musa (18:30); what happened to Father Paolo after the Syrian government cracked down on dissent and protest in 2011 (29:00); and how Father Paolo’s monastery fostered interfaith dialogue over debate, and what his legacy is in Syria (43:00). Shaun O’Neill is the author of A Church of Islam: The Syrian Calling of Father Paolo Dall’Oglio. Notable Links: The strangers we meet on the road (Deviate episode) Paolo Dall’Oglio (Italian priest and peace activist) Deir Mar Musa (Christian monastery in Syria) 2011 Syrian uprising (phase of the Arab Spring) Sufism (mystic Islamic practice) Neuromancer, by William Gibson (novel) Tahrir Square (public area in Cairo) Hafez al-Assad (Syrian president from 1971-2000) Kurdish Syria (northeast part of the country) Alawites (ethnoreligious group) Interfaith dialogue (interaction between religious traditions) Desert Fathers (early Christian monks) Free Syrian Army (civil war faction) Daesh (militant Islamists in Syria and Iraq) Pope John Paul II (Catholic leader) Of Gods and Men (2010 film) Frans van der Lugt (Dutch priest killed in Syria) Syncretism (combining of different beliefs) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“The noun part of “writer” seems to require outside validation, but the verb part of it — “writing” — is something you’re either doing or you’re not.” –Matt Bell In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Matt talk about the importance of creative persistence and obsession (1:45); the importance of maintaining creative discipline and keeping concrete track of your progress (8:00); “swooper” versus “basher” writers, and approaches to revision (14:00); the importance of place to narrative, and its role in research (21:15); how point-of-view affects a narrative (30:00); the important of “inciting incidents” and other techniques of narrative structure (38:00); strategies for getting “unstuck” in a narrative (42:30); and counterintuitive strategies for revising a creative work (52:00). Novelist Matt Bell (@mdbell79) is the author of several books, including, most recently, Refuse to Be Done: How to Write and Rewrite a Novel in Three Drafts. Notable Links: National Novel Writing Month (creative writing event) Lauren Groff (novelist) IKEA (ready-to-assemble furniture) Anne Lamott (author) Kurt Vonnegut (author) Iceberg theory (writing technique) Appleseed (novel by Matt Bell) Scandinavian noir (genre of crime fiction) William Inge (playwright) Orpheus and Eurydice (Greek legend) Point of view (narrative mode) Graham Greene (novelist and travel writer) Poetics (work of dramatic theory by Aristotle) Amy Tan (author) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“Travel imparts a liquid language whose sole property is the flow of questions.” –Marcia DeSanctis In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Marcia talk about what it was like to work as a TV producer for Barbara Walters (1:30); how she made the decision to transition into prose writing, and how a sense of curiosity and abandon can inspire travel and travel writing (6:00); how we all change as travelers over the course of a lifetime (13:00); the way the things we bring home from our travels shape our memories of places (21:30); and how travel is a way to reinvent oneself (30:00). Marcia DeSanctis (marciadesanctis1) is a Contributing Writer for Travel + Leisure. Her 2022 essay collection is entitled A Hard Place to Leave: Stories from a Restless Life. Notable Links: Barbara Walters (American TV host) Muammar Gaddafi (Libyan revolutionary) The Millions (online literary magazine) Souvenir, book by Rolf Potts (book) Alexander Pushkin (Russian poet) Kievan Rus’ (medieval state) Leningrad (former name of St. Petersburg) Trans–Mongolian Railway (Asian train route) A&E Biography (TV program) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“Have a bias toward action.” – Chris Guillebeau In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Chris discuss Chris’ quest to travel to every country in the world (4:30); discovering and fine-tuning your passions through travel (17:00); exploring creativity through various mediums, and discontentment as a catalyst for change (27:00); knowing when to write a book (44:00); and overcoming adversity as a creative person (56:00). Chris Guillebeau (@chrisguillebeau), who visited every country in the world before his 35th birthday is a New York Times bestselling author. His books include The Art of Non-Conformity, The $100 Startup, The Happiness of Pursuit, and Side Hustle. He is also the host of the Side Hustle School podcast. For more on Chris, check out https://chrisguillebeau.com/ or his 193 Countries Project at https://www.instagram.com/193countries/. Notable Links: School of Travel (podcast) The 4-Hour Workweek, by Tim Ferriss (book) Paris Writing Workshops World Domination Summit (event) Ryan Holiday (author) Scrivener (note management application) Evernote (note management application) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“”Curiosity is contagious.” –Sophia Bentaher In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Sophia talk about structuring journey around specific passions and obsessions, and her own decision to hitchhike Europe in search of pastry recipes (2:00); how your national or ethnic identity affects how you are seen as a traveler (13:00); Sophia’s experiences as a woman hitchhiker in places like France, Switzerland and Italy, and how she documented her experiences on a spreadsheet (21:00); how the quest for pastry transformed the journey (38:00); how the travel experience led her to open a pastry business in Marrakesh (49:00); and how processes and stories are sometimes more essential than outcomes (57:30). Sophia Bentaher (@sophiabnthr) is a food traveler and writer, with a French-Moroccan background. Her obsession for food, specifically desserts, led her to drop a 9-5 lifestyle and go explore Europe to learn a traditional cake recipe in each country. Notable Links: The Wet and the Dry, by Laurence Osborne (book) American Chinatown, by Bonnie Tsui (book) Excel (spreadsheet software) Hero’s journey (mythology template) Wanderjahre or Compagnons du Devoir (learning journey) Third culture kid (cross-cultural identity) Crostata (Italian tart) Cornes de Gazelle (Moroccan cookie) The Alchemist (novel) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“The pathless path is an embrace of uncertainty and discomfort. It’s a call to adventure in a world that tells us to conform.” –Paul Millerd In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Paul talk about American ideas of success, what these ideas mean, and how certain kinds of success don’t improve one’s life-path (1:30); how Paul used travel and overseas living to reinvent his relationship to time and help put himself on the pathless path (16:30); how we instinctively sense when we’re on a wrong path, and what to do when we feel this way (30:00); and Paul’s ten principles for embracing the pathless path (40:00). Paul Millerd (@p_millerd) is a strategy consultant, and the author of The Pathless Path: Imagining a New Story for Work and Life. Notable Links: Wu wei (Taoist concept of inaction) Joseph Campbell (comparative mythologist) Søren Kierkegaard (philosopher) Jerry Colonna (financier) Seth Godin (author) Tim Ferriss (author and podcaster) Commonplace book (method of compiling knowledge) Johann Wolfgang von Goethe (writer) Ten ways to embrace the pathless path: 1) Question the default 2) Reflect 3) Figure out what you have to offer 4) Pause and disconnect 5) Go make a friend 6) Go make something 7) Give generously 8) Experiment 9) Commit 10) Be patient The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“Once I started medical school and my scalpel met the cadaver’s skin, I discovered that exploring the body felt quite similar to exploring the outside world.” –Jonathan Reisman In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Jonathan talk about how doctors and travel writers and both be generalists, and how travel puts can put us into a new relationship with our bodies (1:30); what travel to a place like India can teach you about toilet hygiene (7:00); what eating unfamiliar or strange-seeming food on a journey can teach you about the body (15:00); culturally specific ideas about fat, eating fat, and the idea of being fat (21:00); what Americans are getting wrong about health, nutrition, technology, and the human body (31:00); how the pineal gland regulates sleep, and what we know about it (35:00); and how travel helps us understand how our bodies work (42:00). Dr. Jonathan Reisman (@jonreismanMD) is an internist, pediatrician and ER physician, and author of The Unseen Body: A Doctor’s Journey Through the Hidden Wonders of Human Anatomy. Notable Links: Jet lag (physiological condition) Travelers’ diarrhea (intestinal infection) Gastritis (stomach inflammation) Sinusitis (inflammation of the sinuses) Kamchatka (peninsula in the Russian Far East) Haggis (Scottish savory pudding) Cholesterol (steroid alcohol found in fat) Triglycerides (constituent of body fat) Endocrine organ (part of the body’s hormonal system) Pineal gland (endocrine gland that secretes melatonin) Ambien (medicine for sleeping problems) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“The worst of what adventurers do is an exercise in vanity, chasing a scrolling, envious audience. At best, an adventurer makes people smile, challenges them to think, brings about change and inspires action.” –Alastair Humphreys In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Alastair talk about what the task of an “adventurer” is these days, and how Al got his start in adventure travel (2:00); how one might approach becoming an adventurer in this day and age, and how to balance embracing versus recording the adventure (7:30); the nuts and bolts of managing things like sponsorships and social media (19:00); communicating with one’s audience, including optimizing blog posts and email newsletters (35:00); working with agents, and when and why to self-publish books (47:00). Alastair Humphreys (@Al_Humphreys) is an English adventurer, author and motivational speaker. Alastair was the National Geographic Adventurer of the Year in 2012, and has written thirteen books, most recently Ask An Adventurer. Notable Links: Bill Tillman (20th century English mountaineer) Bear Grylls (British adventurer) Microadventures, by Alastair Humphreys (book) Buffer (social-media managing application) “Five-Bullet Friday” (Tim Ferriss email newsletter) Google Forms (survey software) Jab, Jab, Jab, Right Hook, by Gary Vaynerchuk (book) Alastair Humphreys newsletters Austin Kleon weekly newsletter Kindle Direct Publishing (self-publishing platform) Creative Penn (website for writers) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“Part of what enabled me to kiss that stranger was knowing I would never see him again.” –Colleen Kinder In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Colleen discuss why she started the magazine Off Assignment, and how it came to encompass letters to strangers (2:30); some of the specific stories included in Letter to a Stranger, and the role potential romance can play in meeting strangers (9:00); Rolf’s memorable travel strangers, how new travelers interact with people and places with a different energy than seasoned travelers or expats (27:00); places that force us into contact with strangers, like subways and hostels (33:00); and what it’s like to see travelers as a stationary person, and what local strangers must think of travelers (42:00). Colleen Kinder (@colleenkinder) is an essayist and editor whose work has appeared in the New York Times Magazine, the New Republic, and The Best American Travel Writing. She is the editor of the anthology Letter to a Stranger: Essays to the Ones Who Haunt Us. Colleen’s magazine Off Assignment accepts “Letter to a Stranger” submissions from all manner of travelers. If you’d like to submit an 800-1500-word letter to an unshakeable stranger you’ve met on the road, please read the magazine’s submission guidelines. Notable Links: Leslie Jamison (essayist) Pico Iyer (travel author) Interview with Julia Cooke (Deviate episode) Lavinia Spalding (travel author) “To a Stranger,” by Walt Whitman (poem) Ficar (Brazilian Portuguese slang) Speed dating (matchmaking process) Hijab (garment worn by some Muslim women) “Blot Out,” (Egypt essay by Colleen Kinder) Craig Mod (writer) Before Sunrise (1995 travel movie) Ajijic (Mexican town popular with retiree expats) Leaving the Atocha Station (novel by Ben Lerner) Semester at Sea (study-abroad program) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“In the Hong Kongs and New Yorks and Londons of the world you need to find ways to get outside, because it can be depressing to be in a great world city and be trapped in an 800-square-foot space.” –Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Rueben discuss what it’s like to come home after a life-changing journey, sharing the story with others, exploring one’s own hometown on foot (2:00); the wisdom captured in quotes, and the power of poetry (22:00); the notion of what is possible in less-expensive cities and neighborhoods, avoiding consumerist living, and spending money locally (35:00); the excuses people make to postpone taking their dream trips, and how friends and family can keep you accountable (45:30). Reuben Dreiblatt is the host of “The A.T. With You & Me,” a podcast about through-hiking the Appalachian Trail. Notable Links: Van Life before #VanLife (Deviate episode) Long-distance hiking at home (Deviate episode) Friluftsliv (Norwegian ethos of being outdoors) The World Beneath Your Feet (documentary) Matt Green interview (Deviate episode) Souvenir, by Rolf Potts (book) Lower East Side Tenement Museum (NYC museum) What narrative therapy is (Deviate episode) Commonplace book (journal method) Wanderlust, by Rebecca Solnit (book about walking) Walt Whitman (American poet) Standing on the shoulders of giants (metaphor) Ed Buryn interview (Deviate episode) Asheville (city in North Carolina) 52 Places to Visit in 2022 (New York Times article) Gary Snyder (American poet) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“My pandemic essay was so badly received; I got massively dragged on Twitter for it, practically canceled. And then it ended up in Best American Travel Writing.” –Meghan Daum In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Meghan discuss what it means to be called “the voice of a generation” (4:00); why Meghan moved to Nebraska early in her career, and what it’s like to live and create in the provinces versus the metropole (9:20); the difficulty of continuing to make a living as a creative person, and mid-life career reinvention (16:00); Meghan’s essay about moving to rural Virginia during the pandemic, how it was poorly received, and her anxieties about living as a “geoarbitrage” outsider (22:30); Meghan’s career pivot into commenting on the culture wars, and how social media algorithms made this cultural rift more of an issue (35:00); and Rolf’s concerns that the politicization and performative certainty of social discourse will make young people less open to the vulnerabilities and uncertainties of travel (44:45). Meghan Daum (@meghan_daum) is the host of The Unspeakable Podcast and is the author of six books. Her most recent book, The Problem With Everything: My Journey Through The New Culture Wars, was a New York Times Notable Book for 2019 and is just out in paperback. Notable Links: Girls (HBO TV series) Rolf’s Atlantic essay about Girls (2012 article) My Misspent Youth, by Meghan Daum (essay collection) Sophfronia Scott on Deviate (podcast episode) The GenX Reader, by Douglas Rushkoff (essay collection) X Saves the World, by Jeff Gordonier (book) Quality of Life Report, by Meghan Daum (novel) I Left NYC for Greener Pastures, by Meghan Daum (essay) Geoarbitrage (lifestyle-design strategy) Culture war (values conflict within a society) Alexander Kinglake (19th century English author) The Daily Stoic, by Ryan Holiday and Stephen Hanselman (book) Cultural appropriation Michel Foucault (French theorist) Quick Studies: The Best of Lingua Franca (criticism anthology) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“We don’t have a lot of time on this earth. When you get to my age you’ve got to use it wisely. The thing I object to most is people wasting my time.” – Paul Theroux In this episode of Deviate, Paul Theroux and Rolf discuss their travels through Mexico and magical realism (4:30); teaching as a way to get to know a country and the importance of reading (20:00); and Paul’s experience traveling along the US-Mexico border and geo-political complexities between the two countries (29:00). Paul Theroux (@PaulTheroux_) is a pioneer of travel writing and author of many highly acclaimed books, including The Great Railway Bazaar, The Tao of Travel, and On the Plain of Snakes. Notable Links: Sinclair Lewis (writer) William Faulkner (writer) Jorge Luis Borges (writer) Gabriel García Márquez (writer) Magical Realism (style of fiction) James Joyce (writer) Aldous Huxley (writer) Jack Kerouac (writer) Rebecca West (writer) Harriet Doer (writer) Leonora Carrington (artist) The Treasure of the Sierra Madre, by B. Traven (novel) Nathaniel Philbrick (author) Moby-Dick, by Herman Melville (book) Subcomandante Marcos (revolutionary) Zapatista Army of National Liberation (militant group) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“Calculate what you spend on a daily basis at home for all your living expenses, cut that in half, and you’ll have a daily budget that can take you around the world indefinitely.” –Tim Leffel In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Tim discuss the advantages of traveling to cheaper parts of the world (3:00); how living overseas can actually be cheaper than your life at home (13:00); strategies to save money on the road (23:00); setting a budget, and counterintuitive sightseeing (34:00); and breaking the myth of expensive European travel (51:00). Tim Leffel (@timleffel) is an award-winning travel writer and author of The World’s Cheapest Destinations and A Better Life for Half the Price. He is the editor of the narrative web publication Perceptive Travel. For more about Tim, check out https://timleffel.com. The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“I realized that Justin Alexander was the latest person to disappear in a long history of travelers disappearing in India’s Parvati Valley. It’s a dark aspect of this really beautiful place.” – Harley Rustad In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Harley discuss how Harley learned of Justin Alexander’s story, why he chose to report it, and what makes travel to India unique (2:30); who Justin Alexander was, and what life events and desires led to him being a world traveler and social-media persona (8:00); what makes India’s Parvati Valley unique as a mountainous place where backpackers sometimes disappear, and how “India Syndrome” affects travelers (30:00); Justin’s decision to live in a cave in the Parvati Valley under the influence of a local sadhu (40:00); Justin’s August 2016 Facebook message to Rolf, the timeline of his life before his disappearance (47:30); speculations on what became of Justin after he was seen for the last time, and what his legacy is (57:00). Harley Rustad (@hmrustad) is the author of Lost in the Valley of Death: A Story of Obsession and Danger in the Himalayas, and Big Lonely Doug: The Story of One of Canada’s Last Great Trees. Notable Links: Adventures of Justin Alexander (Facebook page) Adventures of Justin (Instagram account) Adventures of Justin (YouTube channel) Chris McCandless (subject of Into the Wild) Timothy Treadwell (subject of Grizzly Man) Hippie Trail (1960s/1970s Asia travel subculture) Tom Brown Jr. (American survivalist) Royal Enfield (type of motorcycle) Mentawai Islands (archipelago near Sumatra) Hero’s Journey (mythic narrative template) Joseph Campbell (comparative mythologist) Sterling Hayden (actor and adventurer) Parvati Valley (mountainous region in India) Hashish (drug common in the Parvati Valley) India Syndrome (delusional state) Sadhu (Hindu religious ascetic) “Lost in the Valley of Death” (2018 Outside article) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“Mixtapes were more than a way to share music in the 1980s and 1990s: They were, in fact, a type of extraverbal language — a vivid, inexpensive form of folk communication.” – Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf talks about the film Cassette, and reads an informal essay about how mixtapes are a kind of lost language (00:45); then Rolf, Liesl, and Michael talk about how person-to-person connection was essential to sharing music in the 1990s, and the legacy of cassettes (8:00); the era when cassettes were a new technology, and the craft and care that went into creating mixtapes (22:00); how finding new music is different in the era of online algorithms, versus what music curation was like before cassettes (33:00); and how music and music-nostalgia is generationally specific, according to what technology was used when a given generation was young (45:30). Zack Taylor is an actor and cinematographer, known for Cassette: A Documentary Mixtape (2016). Notable Links: Cassette: A Documentary Mixtape (film) Rondo Rolf essay and track listing High Fidelity (2000 movie) The Fall (English post-punk band) Kevin Young (poet and author) Gouache (type of paint) KROQ-FM (LA “alternative music” radio station) Siouxsie and the Banshees (English rock band) Fishbone (American rock band) Henry Rollins (musician) Kurt Cobain: Montage of Heck (documentary film) Cut-up technique (art method popularized by William S. Burroughs) Payola (music industry practice) “Home Taping Is Killing Music” (1980s slogan) “It’s Raining Tacos” (Parry Gripp song) Lou Ottens (inventor of the cassette tape) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“The Sears Christmas Wish Book was, for me, a kind of foundational text — a secular counterpoint to the Bible stories I learned around that time in Sunday School. I paged through the holiday catalog’s 620 glossy pages as if they amounted to an intoxicating graphic novel of desire, rich with abundance and possibility.” – Rolf Potts, from “Literature of Desire” In this episode Rolf reads an audio version of his Christmas-themed essay “Literature of Desire,” and discusses the wonders of the Sears Christmas Wish Book with novelist Tod Goldberg (@todgoldberg). Tod is the New York Times bestselling author of over a dozen books, including the novel Gangsterland, which is currently being developed into a television series. He is also the director of the University of California-Riverside Palm Desert Low-Residency MFA, and the co-host of the Literary Disco podcast. Introduction (00:35 – 11:20) Vintage Sears Wish Book online archive What Exactly is Christmas Tree Flocking? from Mental Floss Klonopin (anxiety medication) Janis Ian (singer-songwriter) Enchroma glasses (to correct colorblindness) Literature of Desire essay (11:20 – 32:20) Richard Warren Sears (catalog founder) Mr. Sears’ Catalog (video) from PBS’s American Experience Sears Catalog Home (ready-to-assemble houses) That ’70s Show, Happy Days, Good Times, Welcome Back, Kotter (TV shows) Christie Brinkley and Renee Russo (fashion models) Pong (video game) Big Jim’s P.A.C.K. (toy line) Jay J. Armes (private investigator) JJ Armes action figure (TV commercial) “Is Jay J. Armes For Real?” from Texas Monthly WishBookcom Sears Wish Book memories (32:20 – 50:10) Action figures (dolls marketed to boys) Toughskins (jeans for children) Huffy (bicycle brand) BEST (showroom retail store) “

“When you smell a place, that’s when your experience of it starts.” – Rolf Potts Wade Shepard (@vagabondjourney) is an itinerant writer and filmmaker who has been traveling the world, through ninety countries, since 1999. Digital nomads interested in lending experiences or insights to the documentary film The Nomads can contact Wade at [email protected]. Notable Links: Baywatch (TV show) Damara (African ethnic group) Herrero (African ethnic group) @lukeoakvt (Rolf’s nephew’s TikTok account) Malagasy invasion of Africa (10th century battle) Pollyanna principle (positivity bias) Mursi (African ethnic group) FOMO (fear of missing out) The Beach (1996 novel) The Beach (2000 film) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“I will never have another vagabonding journey that compares to that first one — even though I have since traveled to far more exotic parts of the world — in part because there’s something special about embarking on a long-term trip for the first time.” –Rolf Potts In this encore episode of Deviate, Rolf and his old friend Jeff talk about their 8-month van trip across North America back in 1994, how they prepared for it, and how it differed from current-day #VanLife excursions (5:30); how they exercised on the road, and how the conditions and travel-hacks of van journeys were different for two young men in 1994 (23:30); the route they took through North America, what happened along the way, and how they kept daily journals recounting events (36:00); the experience riding with cops in Houston, celebrating Mardi Gras in New Orleans, volunteering at a church in Mississippi, meeting girls in Florida, and seeing New York for the first time (51:00); the experience of staying at a Trappist monastery in Massachusetts for one week (1:14:30); visiting National Parks in the American South, Northeast, and West, and memorable books read along the way (1:28:00); and why the trip was life-changing (1:42:00). Van trip preparation and planning links: Digital nomadism (travel lifestyle) #VanLife (travel lifestyle) Composting toilet Blue Highways, by William Least Heat-Moon (1982 book) On the Road, by Jack Kerouac (1957 book) Travels With Charley, by John Steinbeck (1962 book) Vanagon (Volkswagen van) Volkswagen Westfalia (camper van) Trangia (alcohol-burning camp-stove) A (literal) photo album from my 1994 van vagabonding trip (blog post) Links regarding early months of the 1994 trip: 924 Gilman Street (Berkeley punk club) Northridge earthquake (1994 earthquake) “The Mystical High Church of Luck” (Salon essay about Las Vegas) Lollapalooza (music festival) O. J. Simpson murder case (1994 media incident) USCGC Northwind (Coast Guard icebreaker) Bourbon Street (historic street in New Orleans) The Geto Boys, by Rolf Potts (2016 book) Fifth Ward (Houston neighborhood) Cops (TV show) Canton (town in Mississippi) In His Steps (Mississippi Christian outreach ministry)

“Life’s journey is as rewarding as my travel journeys. It’s been fun to travel the world as a slightly older person.” – Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and participants in the Nomadic Network book club discuss the stories behind the travel tales in his 2008 book Marco Polo Didn’t Go There, including what inspired him to collect the essays into a single book, and why he decided to include endnotes (2:00); which stories stand out as favorites, for both Rolf and his readers, and how Rolf finds stories on the road (12:30); how his writing and his travels have changed in the years since these stories were first written (19:00); what it’s like to create a home amid a life of travel, and how journaling feeds creative writing (26:00); and the new book Rolf is working on now (35:00). Matt Kepnes (@nomadicmatt) is the founder of TravelCon and the author of Travel the World on $50 a Day and Ten Years a Nomad. The Nomadic Network is a global community of travel-enthusiasts who support and inspire one another to travel better, cheaper, and longer. Travel essays mentioned: “Storming The Beach“ (Thailand) ​”Going Native in the Australian Outback” (Australia) “Backpackers’ Ball at the Sultan Hotel” (Egypt) “My Beirut Hostage Crisis” (Lebanon) “Be Your Own Donkey” (Egypt) “Turkish Knockout” (Turkey) Notable links: Paris Writing Workshops (writing class) ​Travelers Tales (publisher) Wilfred Thesiger (travel writer) Gertrude Bell (travel writer) American Notes, by Charles Dickens (travelogue) Herodotus (Greek historian) Best Hostel Ever (Deviate episode) Whodunit (storytelling genre) Bootsnall (travel community) Mentawai Islands (archipelago in Indonesia) Tracy Kidder (journalist) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“You open up a map, and it’s like, ‘I could go anywhere here.’ It’s just a world of possibility.” – Ari Shaffir Ari Shaffir (@AriShaffir) is a comedian, writer, podcaster, and actor. He is the current host of the Skeptic Tank podcast. For more information on Ari, visit his website. The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“Putting together the podcast has been like swimming laps or practicing free-throws — it’s creative cross-training that benefits my broader writing pursuits, even as it allows me to explore esoteric topics that fascinate me.” – Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate (which is remixed from Jay Acunzo’s 3 Clips podcast) Rolf and Jay talk about how a visual medium like travel gets translated to audio, and how podcasting serves Rolf’s creative career (4:00); how the walking episode differed from normal ones, and the walk naturally mixed spiritual and practical themes (10:00); how to approach an interview without an outline, creating unstructured content that is beholden to things like having to take a pee (15:00); ow smooth conversation is often the result of planning and effort, deviating yet remembering what the core topic is (22:00); using spontaneous moments in a strategic way, and how Rolf will organize and plan the podcast looking forward (34:00). Jay Acunzo has worked for companies like Google and ESPN, and his projects (such as his 3 Clips podcast) aim to demystify the creative process behind creating memorable projects, careers, and companies. Notable Links: Long-distance hiking at home (Deviate episode) Idiosyncrasies of global train travel (Deviate episode) Thich Nhat Hanh (Buddhist monk) Paris Writing Workshops (creative writing class) Guildhall School of Music and Drama Archive of Deviate episodes with Ari Shaffir Scriptnotes (screenwriting podcast) The Rewatchables (movie podcast) Super Bowl special (Deviate episode) Why dinosaurs matter (Deviate episode) J. Yuenger on music and long-term travel (Deviate episode) Ian MacKaye on rock music (Deviate episode) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“We all have different priorities in life, and there is a place for each of us where we can live according to what those priorities are.” – Winona Dimeo In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Winona discuss what people are looking for in a place to live (2:00) and Livability.com’s latest rankings for America’s most livable cities (23:00). Then, Rolf takes recommendations from listeners on their favorite places to live in America (53:00). Winona Dimeo (@winona_rose) is the managing editor of Livability.com, a website that ranks America’s most livable small and mid-sized cities. For more livability tips, check out its rankings of the best small to mid-sized cities in the USA. Livability also publishes its methodology. Cities mentioned in the main interview include: Portland, OR; Austin, TX; Minneapolis, MN; Pittsburgh, PA; Manhattan, KS; Lawrence, KS; Overland Park, KS; Lindsborg, KS; Ottawa, KS; Wichita, KS; Buffalo, NY; Rochester, MN; Kingsport, TN; Sevierville, TN; Fargo, ND; Savannah, GA; New Orleans, LA; Cincinnati, OH; Yellow Springs, OH; Athens, OH; Astoria, OR; Lincoln City, OR; Nashville, TN; Asheville, NC; Black Mountain, NC; Brevard, NC; Traverse City, MI; Marfa, TX; Charleston, SC; Bend, OR; and Hood River, OR. Notable Links: Konza Prairie (biological preserve) Tallgrass National Prairie Preserve Kanopolis State Park Stiefel Theater “One of the Coolest Cities in America Doesn’t Even Realize It Yet” (Thrillist article) Dollywood (theme park) Alicia Underlee Nelson (travel writer) Gooding (band) 1,000 Places to See Before You Die, by Patricia Shultz (book) Oregon Shakespeare Festival Transcendental Meditation Wollowa Mountains (mountain range) Terminal Gravity (brewery) Maharishi Vastu Architecture Audio contributors: Adam Karlin (Staunton, VA) Alicia Ard (Bend, OR) Sarah Bell (Phoenixville, Pennsylvania) Gooding (Kingston Springs, TN) Steven Gray (Pensacola, FL) Avery Gunns (Truth or Consequences, NM) Max Hartshorne (Northampton, MA) Michele Hermann (Buffalo, NY) Karen Hugg (Ashland, OR) Jamie-Lee Josselyn (Galena, IL) Brian Kevin (Joseph, OR and Enterprise, OR) Tim Leffel (Chattanooga, TN) Deborah Lewis (...

“Holiday gave its writers room to tell a comprehensive story. A place was evoked in thousands of words instead of the usual 800 we are now accustomed to reading.” – Pamela Fiori In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Pamela talk about the origins of Holiday Magazine, why it attracted good writers, and how its creation was connected to advertising markets (2:15); famous articles to appear in the magazine, and why it was successful (7:00); who the magazine’s audience was, how television and political-cultural changes in America affected things in the 1960s (15:00); the decline of Holiday Magazine magazine amid the economic and cultural changes of the 1970s, and why there are no archives (24:30); and the legacy of Holiday Magazine in the 21st century. Pamela Fiori made publishing history in May 1993, when she became the first woman to be named editor in chief of Town & Country, America’s oldest continuously published general-interest magazine. She is the author of Holiday: The Best Travel Magazine that Ever Was. Notable Links: Holiday Magazine (travel publication) See the USA in Your Chevrolet (song performed by Dinah Shore) The Dinah Shore Chevy Show (1950s TV show) Travels with Charley (1962 John Steinbeck travel book) Saturday Evening Post (American general-interest magazine) Ladies’ Home Journal (American women’s magazine) Curtis Publishing (American magazine publisher) Ted Patrick (magazine editor) Joan Didion (American essayist) Roger Angell (American essayist) Here is New York (essay and book by E.B. White) Mad Men (TV show about advertising) Big Sur (coastal region of central California) Travel + Leisure (American travel magazine) Mag Men, by Walter Bernard (book) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“In ancient Greece, entire eras were measured by Olympiads. It’s how history was arranged. The Olympics were that important.” – Tony Perrottet In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Tony discuss how the ancient games was a religious festival, now it was never delayed, and why it was important (2:00) non-sports events that happened the the ancient Games, performance enhancing potions, and Greek competitiveness (17:00); the sporting events competed in the ancient games, and how they differed from modern sports (24:00); the training and diet that went into the games, aristocrats versus commoners who competed, and which ancient Olympians are still remembered (32:00); and what non-Greeks thought to the games, Greek skeptics of the games, and what it’s like to travel to the old sites of the ancient Greek games (45:30). Tony Perrottet (@TonyPerrottet) is the author of six books, including Pagan Holiday: On the Trail of Ancient Roman Tourists; The Sinner’s Grand Tour: A Journey Through the Historical Underbelly of Europe; and The Naked Olympics: The True Story of the Greek Games, upon which this interview is based. Notable Links: Ancient Olympic Games (sporting festival) Olympia, Greece (location of the ancient Games) Statue of Zeus at Olympia (ancient tourist attraction) Herodotus (ancient Greek historian) Pausanias (ancient Greek geographer) Symposium (ancient Greek drinking banquet) Monty Python (British comedy troupe) Gilgamesh (Mesopotamian mythological hero) Enkidu (Mesopotamian mythological hero) Funeral games (ancient honor ritual) Pankration (ancient fighting sport) Ben Hur (epic historical movie) Pierre de Coubertin (founder of the modern Olympics) Milo of Croton (ancient Greek wrestler) 300 (2007 epic historical movie) Battle of Thermopylae (ancient Greek battle) Diogenes the Cynic (ancient Greek philosopher) Karate gets its due at the Olympics, by Tony Perrottet (article) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].