ChinaTalk

Is there a stable state the US and China can hope for on the road to AGI? To discuss we have on today Dan Hendrycks. A CS PhD, Dan runs the Center for AI Safety and is an advisor at xAI and Scale AI. Here's his superintelligence strategy: https://www.nationalsecurity.ai/ For some more direct lessons from the Cold War to today's US-China dynamics, check out the show I did with Hal Brands (https://www.chinatalk.media/p/cold-war-lessons-for-us-china-today) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The Transistor Radio boys are back. Jon of Asianometry, Doug O'Laughlin and Dylan Patel of SemiAnalysis on the pod to talk about Google's AI push, Intel's new CEO, Chinese robots, and the rise of CoreWeave. Here's the article rating the clouds that SemiAnalysis wrote: https://semianalysis.com/2025/03/26/the-gpu-cloud-clustermax-rating-system-how-to-rent-gpus/ Outtro Music: Some Malaysian UK garage: GADISKU lucidrari, FITTO, Gard, 2023 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVewUwqu1dM Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sergey Radchenko’s book, To Run the World: The Kremlin’s Bid for Global Power, is a masterwork! In my mind, it’s in pole position for best book of 2025. Sergey takes you into the mind of Soviet and Chinese leaders as they wrestle for global power and recognition, leaving you amused, inspired, and horrified by the small-mindedness of the people who had the power to start World War III. We get amazing vignettes like Liu Shaoqi making fun of the Americans for eating ice cream in trenches, Khrushchev pinning red stars on Eisenhower’s grandkids, and Brezhnev and Andropov offering to dig up dirt on senators to help save Nixon from Watergate. Sergey earns your trust in this book, acknowledging what we can and can’t know. He leaves you with a new lens to understand the Cold War and the new US-China rivalry — namely, the overwhelming preoccupation with global prestige by Cold War leaders. In this interview, we discuss… Why legitimacy matters in international politics, Stalin’s colonial ambitions and Truman’s strategy of containment, Sino-Soviet relations during the Stalin era and beyond, The history of nuclear blackmail, starting with the 1956 Suez crisis, Why Khrushchev couldn’t save the Soviet economy. Co-hosting today is Jon Sine of the Cogitations substack. Outro music: Виталий Марков "Главное, ребята, сердцем не стареть" (YouTube Link) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Despite leading the world in AI innovation, there’s no guarantee that America will rise to meet the challenge of AI infrastructure. Specifically, the key technological barrier for data center construction within the next 5 years is new power capacity. To discuss policy solutions, ChinaTalk interviewed Ben Della Rocca, who helped write the AI infrastructure executive order and formerly served as director for technology and national security on Biden’s NSC, as well as Arnab Datta, director at IFP and managing director at Employ America, and Tim Fist, a director at IFP. Arnab and Tim just published a fantastic three-part series exploring the policy changes needed to ensure that AGI is invented in the USA and deployed through American data centers. In today’s interview, we discuss… The need for new power generation driven by ballooning demand for compute, The impact of the January 2025 executive order on AI infrastructure, Which energy technologies can (and can’t) power gigawatt-scale AI training facilities (and why Jordan is all-in on GEOTHERMAL), Challenges for financing moonshot green power ideas and the role of government action, The failure of the market to prioritize AI lab security, and what can be done to fend off threats from adversaries and non-state actors. Outtro music: Ghost Crew - 蝴蝶武士 (Butterfly Warriors) (Youtube link) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A Wuhan-developed AI agent went viral this weekend. Guests Rohit Krishnan of the substack Strange Loop Canon, Shawn Wang of Latent Space, and Dean Ball of Mercatus and Hyperdimensional join us to discuss. We get into What Manus is and isn't What Manus tells us about the broader AI ecosystem's ability to produce products we actually want to use The political economy and liability issues that AI agents will engender More ChinaTalk coverage: https://www.chinatalk.media/p/manus-chinas-latest-ai-sensation Outtro Music: La Marelu "Mala" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAB5rx8mqjM&ab_channel=LaMarelu-Topic Alaska y Dinarama "A Quién Le Importa" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uQhdDtdXg0&ab_channel=YouMoreTv-Espect%C3%A1culo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Note: This episode was recorded Wednesday February 26th, two days before Zelenskyy's press conference with J.D. Vance and Trump in the White House. Shashank Joshi (Defence Editor at The Economist) and Michael Horowitz (Biden's Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Force Development and Emerging Capabilities, now back at Penn) come on the show to discuss: Ukraine's Chances on the Battlefield: We revisit J.D. Vance's tweet war with Shashank where he claims Ukraine is fated to lose, highlighting how war is nonlinear and dependent on political cohesion, economic strength, and defense industrial capacity beyond just manpower. Trump's Pivot to Putin: We try to think through what Trump is doing with Ukraine and Russia at the strategic level and what the long term and second order consequences are. AI and the Future of Warfare: We discuss of how AGI would transform warfare, with Horowitz suggesting progress will be incremental rather than revolutionary, emphasizing government adoption challenges over 0 to 1 technical breakthroughs. "Precise Mass" in Combat: Ukrainian forces have demonstrated how AI-guided drones achieving 80%+ hit rates have changed battlefield dynamics, introducing the concept of "precise mass" - lower-cost precision systems deployed at scale across domains including air, land, and sea. See Mike's Foreign Affairs piece on the topic here: https://www.foreignaffairs.com/world/battles-precise-mass-technology-war-horowitz Defense Innovation Challenges: Western bureaucratic processes severely impede military innovation, with Horowitz noting that reprogramming just 0.05% of the defense budget required over 40 congressional briefings, contrasting with Ukraine's wartime innovation speed and calling for acquisition reform. Recommended Books: Under the Nuclear Shadow by Fiona Cunningham Army of None by Paul Scharre Billion Dollar Spy by David Hoffman Outtro Music: Santigold, You'll Find a Way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IodbPh7RkBw Vampire Weekend, Walcott: https://open.spotify.com/track/0BZY839qKXibapu4S0GYE2?si=7ecc773a95ee4d62 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Can sanctions really work? What lessons can we draw from US sanctions on Iran, Russia, and China in the 21st century? To find out, we interviewed Eddie Fishman, a former civil servant at the Department of State and an Adjunct Professor at Columbia. His new book, Chokepoints: American Power in the Age of Economic Warfare, is a gripping history of the past 20 years of American sanctions policy. In this show, we’ll talk about… The evolution of U.S. sanctions policy, from Iraq and Cuba to Iran and Russia, How Reagan’s deal with the Saudis turned the dollar into an economic chokepoint, The incredible success of sanctions against Iran, and how that playbook could have been used to punish Russia, Historical lessons in enforcement that are relevant for export controls on China today, The role of great civil servants like Stuart Levey, Daleep Singh, Victoria Nuland, and Matt Pottinger in building state power, Institutional challenges for economic warfare and the consequences of failure to reform, Strategies for writing groundbreaking books about modern history. Outro music: 1970s Iranian Psychadelic Rock, Gole Yakhe by Kourosh Yaghmaei https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmhqVPXOKo4 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

How do patents influence emerging technology innovation? How far could AI and DOGE push our current IP regime? Does it matter that China issues way more patents than the US does? To discuss, ChinaTalk interviewed ​​Andrei Iancu, who served as the director of the US Patent Office under the first Trump administration. Andrei has degrees in aerospace and mechanical engineering, and worked at the legendary Hughes Aircraft Company before going to law school. He is currently in private practice at Sullivan and Cromwell. Co-hosting today is ChinaTalk editor and second year law student at Duke, Nicholas Welch. We get into… The mounting evidence that China's patent system now dominates America’s, and whether these indicators constitute an emergency in the innovation ecosystem, Why some US companies now prefer Chinese courts for patent enforcement, The fundamental tension between private rights of inventors and public access to innovations, What congressional inaction on patent eligibility means for AI innovation, and the bills that congress could pass to immediately jumpstart emerging tech investment, What the current administration could do to help USPTO juice the economy, Controversy surrounding the Patent Trial and Appeal Board (PTAB), and whether DOGE could put PTAB on the chopping block, How Trump will approach patent law and intellectual property rights, including perspectives on appointments and potential reforms. Thanks to CSIS for partnering with us to bring you this episode, the first in a three-episode CSIS Chip Chat series. Outtro Music: Lil Green, I'm Going to Copyright Your Kisses (1941) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ye39JuJZ4k&ab_channel=LilGreen-Topic Nellie Hill, I'm Gunna Copyright Your Kisses (1951) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3OcMdxpWas&ab_channel=krobigraubart Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

How has Chinese hegemony shaped power relations in East Asia? Why did imperial China conquer Tibet and Xinjiang but not Vietnam or Korea? Can learning from history help maintain peace in the Taiwan Strait? Today’s interview begins with one shocking truth — while medieval Europe suffered under near-constant war, East Asia’s Middle Ages were defined by great power peace. To discuss, ChinaTalk interviewed Professor David C. Kang, director of the Korean Studies Institute at USC and co-author of Beyond Power Transitions: The Lessons of East Asian History and the Future of U.S.-China Relations. We discuss… How East Asian nations managed to peacefully coexist for centuries, Why lessons from European history don’t always apply in non-European contexts, Why wars begin and how they can be avoided, How to interpret outbreaks of violence in Asia — including conflicts with the Mongols, China’s meddling in Vietnam, and Japan’s early attempts at empire, State behaviors that cannot be explained by power transition theory alone, Whether the Thucydides trap makes U.S.-China war inevitable, Old school methods for managing cross-strait relations. Co-hosting today is Ilari Mäkelä of the On Humans podcast. Outro music: 荒城の月 "The Moon over the Ruined Castle" by 滝廉太郎 Rentarō Taki (Youtube link) Cover photo of a Song Dynasty axe-wielding god https://dragonsarmory.blogspot.com/2016/12/song-chinese-armor-in-religious.html Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Dylan Patel and Doug O'Laughlin (SemiAnalysis), Jon from Asianometry and I have way too much fun talking hyperscaler capex, the AI mandate of heaven tier list, and Tim Cook succession plans. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Dario Amodei is the CEO of Anthropic. In today’s interview, we discuss… Whether an AI innovation race is inevitable between the US and China, How the US should update export controls in light of DeepSeek’s R1 release, DeepSeek’s willingness to generate information about bioweapons, Technical defenses against model distillation and AI espionage, How advanced AI could eventually impact democracy, Whether there is tension between export controls and the belief that AI will broadly increase human flourishing. Dario's blogposts: Machines of Loving Grace: https://darioamodei.com/machines-of-loving-grace On DeepSeek and Export Controls: https://darioamodei.com/on-deepseek-and-export-controls Outro Music: Lykke Li, I Follow Rivers (Magician Remix) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oS6wfWu0JvA&ab_channel=LykkeLi Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Kevin Xu of Interconnected and Interconnected Capital and I knock it out of the park with a roundup episode exploring: What DeepSeek does and doesn't illustrate about Chinese innovation Tensions between open-source cosmopolitanism and nationalism built into DeepSeek and the broader Chinese tech community DeepSeek's organizational and talent management strategy, parallels to OpenAI, and what the fame will mean for the firm and Chinese AI policy What DeepSeek should and may mean for the future of export controls and broader US innovation policy The JS Tan article referenced: https://www.chinatalk.media/p/deepseeks-secret-to-success Dario's first article on our happy AI future: https://darioamodei.com/machines-of-loving-grace Dario's second article on why America needs to export control China: https://darioamodei.com/on-deepseek-and-export-controls Outtro Music: Dizkar, 愛縂時刻盛開 https://open.spotify.com/track/1rXneAS9Djts7fwRGHUeG5?si=b2b29714802948de Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Miles Brundage, a six year OpenAI vet who ran its Policy Research and AGI readiness arms, discuss why all your deepseek takes are so terrible. Outtro music: The Departure, Max Richter https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8R5Ppb9wqjY Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What makes some countries more innovative than others? What role do intellectual property rights play in building national power? Does Elon Musk really give competitors free access to Tesla’s patents? To find out, ChinaTalk interviewed Adam Mossoff, professor at the Antonin Scalia Law School at George Mason University. We discuss… How the patent system has shaped American society since independence, The extent to which patent policy caused the great divergence between the West and China, Whether Elon’s misunderstanding of patents will become the dominant attitude of the second Trump administration, The Patent Trial and Appeal Board (PTAB) and other threats to the U.S. innovation ecosystem, How to reconcile China’s IP theft with its robust domestic patent law, What the U.S. can do to facilitate innovation while competing with China in emerging technology. Outro Songs from the American Revolution: Liberty Song (Arthur F. Schrader rendition), and the Tory retort, Come Shake Your Dull Noodles (Arthur F. Schrader rendition) Thanks to the Innovation Alliance for sponsoring this episode. The Innovation Alliance is a coalition of research and development-based technology companies representing innovators, patent owners, and stakeholders who believe in the critical importance of maintaining a strong patent system that supports innovative enterprises of all sizes. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Here's a best-of playlist for 2024: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/3yexkG2kvPlq68B22pjOWw?si=da3d1cf64dfe4a2ci Outtro Music: Дили-дили (Dili-dili) Artist: Гюлли Чохели (Gyulli Chokheli), 1967 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

​​Our guest today is economist Noah Smith, who made time for an in-person interview during his recent trip to Taiwan. He runs the Noahpinion substack and is the author of an upcoming book on the revival of the Japanese economy. We discuss… The goals of Silicon Valley's pro-Trump constituency, from deregulation, to tariffs, to China policy, Whether Elon is standing up for Taiwan behind closed doors, Whether Taiwan, Japan, South Korea, and Poland need their own nuclear weapons, How Taiwan could bargain for independence with China’s leaders post-Xi, National health insurance as a potential solution to China’s aggregate demand problem, A Georgist perspective on China’s real estate problem, Why China’s demographic issues are overstated, Recommendations for Taiwan’s economic development. To hear more of Noah's musings, check out Econ 102, a podcast by Turpentine. Outtro music: Wifey by Dizzy Dizzo 蔡詩芸 (Youtube Link) Cover art: 清 冷枚 梧桐双兔图 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Greg Allen of CSIS and I are tired! We go through today's new export controls to stop TSMC from fabbing Huawei chips, some DRAM revisions, and discuss the past two years of Biden BIS policy and where we could all be going next. Outtro music: 大雨 - deca joins https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FFALDn1yGQ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Biden last export control, for real this time! Who does and doesn't get to build datacenters under this new regulation? To discuss, we brought on RAND's Lennart Heim, Jimmy Goodrich, Chris Miller, and Dylan Patel. Outtro Music: Afida Es & the Siglap Boys - jangan goda, Malaysia, 1967 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvXrdwKST1U&ab_channel=schutbart hasnah haron & the spiritual 70's _ bintang pujaan, Malaysia 1977 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4cMsoLttNs&ab_channel=nostalgiahassny Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Can diplomatic charisma prevent crises from escalating? Does the CCP feel conflicted about aligning with the likes of Iran and North Korea? What’s the use of communicating during a great power competition? To find out, ChinaTalk interviewed R. Nicholas Burns, Biden’s Ambassador to China, whose diplomatic career spans 35 years and 8 countries. We discuss… Kissinger’s experience negotiating with the CCP, Why China’s negotiating tactics are so different from those of the Soviet Union, How European allies are helping to push back against Chinese aggression, Great power responsibilities, and whether Chinese leaders truly appreciate the reputational costs of helping the Russians and the Houthis, Biden’s victories with new partners in the Pacific, How diplomats express consequences and draw red lines during international crises, Areas of mutual interest where the U.S. and China can still engage productively, The importance of specialists in the Foreign Service. Outro music: Óró Mo Bháidín - Mary O’Hara Auld Lang Syne - Rendition by The Irish Rovers, originally written by Robert Burns Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

To discuss the Christmas Day MAGA civil war over H1Bs and the future of US immigration policy, ChinaTalk interviewed Divyansh Kaushik, a computer science PhD and vice president of Beacon Global Strategies. We get into… Pro-immigrant attitudes among Trump’s allies in Silicon Valley Creative political maneuvering that could make high-skill immigration reform a reality Whether Vivek is right about American culture aspiring to normalcy Other areas where Elon and the tech right might spend their political influence How nativist backlash could influence Trump’s agenda Why India has yet to produce an influential, home-grown AI lab Special thanks to Mani Subramani, Gauri Subramani, and our anonymous contributor who grew up in China for sharing their reflections on immigrant parenting. Outro song: Kishore Kumar, Rote Hue Aate Hai Sab https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e18Pgofqpnc Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jake Newby is the author of Concrete Avalanche, a free newsletter about music from China. You might remember Jake from the Chinese shoegaze election playlist, or from the tracklist he presented on ChinaTalk back in June. Now that the year is over, Jake is here to introduce his picks for the overall most interesting songs to come out of China in 2024. This tracklist includes everything from Afrobeat-influenced Beijing funk endorsed by Gilles Peterson, to an electronic track crafted in a Tibetan monastery featuring Buddhist chanting. You can find links to listen to each track individually on the ChinaTalk substack. Enjoy! 1. Golden Seeds 黄金种子 by Sleeping Dogs 2. Never Broken, Never Healed by Seon Ga 信鴿 3. Aroma Compound by ayrtbh 4. Stage Riot 舞台 by Carsick Cars 5. Hereditary Nightmare 遗 传 噩 梦 by The Swan and Blossoms 天鹅与花朵 6. Kagi 鍵 by Voision Xi 7. 物件 (Object) by Mdprl & Git Bu$y Trio 8. Night Patrol by Fazi 法兹 9. Mantra Of Buddha Akshobhya 不 动 佛 心 咒 by Howie Lee 10. Ghostbomb by Ghostmass 大鬼众 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Chris Miller of Chip War and Lennart Heim of RAND check in on the geopolitics of AI. We explore: Chinese labs' algorithmic progress (surprising to everyone but regular ChinaTalk listeners!) The geopolitical implications of scaling on test time compute What is and isn't working with US export controls And a whole lot more this was a great episode! The CSET report I referenced: https://cset.georgetown.edu/publication/chinas-sti-operations/ Chris and Lennart's ChinaTalk in early 2023 https://www.chinatalk.media/p/ai-compute-101-the-geopolitics-of Outtro music: japanese citypop producers collaborating Beijinger Cheng Fangyuan in the 80s! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=403GCMhZ89Q&ab_channel=Heatwolves itself a cover of this Japanese track but better than the original https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyjnkuhRfJA&ab_channel=PopBULL Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We’ll be getting into the biggest tv show of 2024, a celebrity road trip “will they or won’t they divorce” show which is just as big of a hot mess as it sounds like, rigged nationalist singing competitions, megacorp boy idol capitalism corrupting something as seemingly innocent as a farming reality show, and xinjiang-set tv hit drama. Our guest today is Em who writes Active Faults, one of my favorite substacks that explores the China’s entertainment industry and celebrity fandom. It is a consistently dark read but one of my favorite discoveries this year. https://activefaults.substack.com/ Puttro music: one of those foreigners who showed up the Chinese singers in 歌手， China's 'The Voice" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMpnuYBcA_I Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Nathan Lambert of the excellent https://www.interconnects.ai/ newsletter and the Allen Institute joins the pod for a rundown of the biggest AI stories of this year and next. We also talk about what he's learned training advanced AI models at the Allen Institute. Outtro Music: Young and Holtful by Young-Holt Unlimited, 1969. https://open.spotify.com/track/5am0dV7aB91Q6sWqIAuurA?autoplay=true Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Commerce released its much-anticipated chip export-control updates yesterday, December 2. But today's guests are unimpressed. But are we right to have hoped for more? To discuss, I’m joined by Dylan Patel of SemiAnalysis and Greg Allen from CSIS. A disclaimer: We recorded this yesterday the same day the regs were released, and given their complexity our takes are inevitably provisional. We get into: What’s in the new controls: high bandwidth memory, FDPR, and the Entity List. Why key assumptions in Biden’s approach to export controls limited How China’s stockpiling spree may have already rendered these new rules partially obsolete, and what policymakers can do about that going forward. The law-enforcement approach vs. the counterintelligence approach, and whether export controls should be a foreign-policy tool or simply a law-enforcement activity. How the new chip controls are like removing puzzle pieces just one at a time — and why that’s exactly what China wants. The “America First” rationale for domestic chip production. Why the Democrats’ regulatory design philosophy has favored massive complexity to the detriment of enforcement — and what the Trump administration might do differently going forward. Outtro music: From the Netherlands! Mensen by Josine Van Dalsum https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igRkp_03UHk From Japan! Yadokari - Meiko Kaji https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJG2Wozor94 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Dylan Patel, Doug O'Laughlin, Jon from Asianometry and I all chat the biggest semiconductor stories of the year. We get into energy demands for datacenters, Intel, Samsung, Nvidia, SMIC, Huawei, Deepseek and the rise of ChatGPT. Outtro music: Sabicas, Carcelera (Reflejo Andaluz) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2_nX21D8Go Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Few books have influenced me as much as the Makers of Modern Strategy series. The three volumes (published in 1942, 1986, and 2023) are indispensable to understanding statecraft, leadership, and the evolution of warfare across millennia. The New Makers of Modern Strategy (2023) is a thousand pages long and analyzes strategy from ancient Greece to the Congo. The man behind this behemoth collection is Hal Brands, a professor at the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies and a returning ChinaTalk guest. In our conversation, we discuss: The process for compiling such an ambitious collection of essays; Unique insights and new topics covered in the 2023 edition, including Tecumseh, Kabila in the Congo, and Strategies of Equilibrium in 17th Century France; Advice for reading the book effectively; Revolutions in military affairs, from the atom bomb to quantum computers. For reference, you can compare the content of the three volumes with this spreadsheet, courtesy of Nicholas Welch. Outtro music: When This Cruel War is Over (Civil War ballad by Hermes Nye) https://open.spotify.com/track/1Zjcz6B4PromuFFXMWu8hK?si=500b718d8361421b Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

To discuss the Department of Justice’s new proposed rule on data security, we interviewed two brilliant guests from the ChinaTalk Hall of Fame — DOJ National Security Division attorneys Lee Licata and Devin DeBacker. Before DOJ, Lee was an attorney at DHS and then CBP, while Devin was a partner at Kirkland & Ellis and then worked with the Office of White House Counsel. Today we’ll be discussing the DOJ’s new proposed rule on data security. We get into… DOJ’s plan to protect your data from foreign adversaries, How public comments have shaped the proposed rule since the last time we interviewed Lee and Devin, DOJ’s tools for enforcing corporate compliance, The differences between data security regulations, privacy laws, and export controls, Why some public comments get accepted and some get rejected, The DOJ playbook for assembling a dream team of talented bureaucrats. Thanks to Nicholas Welch for hosting this interview! Outtro music: Bad Boys (Theme from Cops) (Youtube link) + Everybody Loves the Sunshine (Takuya Kuroda) (YouTube) Submit comments here. Check out our last show about the DOJ's data security rule here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Antoine, aka 多多底料, is a French Mandarin teacher by day and a Chinese rap enthusiast by night. Today, he’s here with a setlist of his favorite hip hop tracks. His original songs can be found here. Bonne écoute! Track 1: 芳草地 (The Fragrant Meadow) by DIGI GHETTO (艾志恒Asen/thomeboydontkill/mac ova seas/KIV/Mula Sakee/付思遥) Track 2: 威远故事 (The Story of Weiyuan County) by GAI周延 Track 3: 变蓝 (Turning Blue) by 也是福 (Eddie Beatz) feat. PO8 and 喜辰晨 Track 4: 亚特兰蒂斯陷落 (Atlantis Surrenders) by 弗兰德斯坦/C-Low Track 5: 春雪采耳 (Ear Cleanse In The Spring Snow) by 施鑫文月 and 小老虎 (Lil Tiger) Track 6: THE MESSAGE PT.2 by CREAM D and 艾热AIR Track 7: 落幕 (Sunset) by Asen (feat. GALI, 堵琳Caroline) Track 8: 囚 (Cage) by 李佳隆 (JelloRio) Track 9: 恨与爱 (Hate and Love) by AThree Track 10: 不负责 (Why u blame on me?) by Capper and (ﾉI A I)ﾉ♡ Track 11: 危险派对 by 王以太 Links to all these songs can be found on the ChinaTalk Substack. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

ChinaTalk columnist Alexa Pan and Jake Newby of the China music substack Concrete Avalanche (https://jakenewby.substack.com/) No election content whatsoever! 1. 'Hohhot Aquarium' - NarrowLaneAngel 窄巷天使 One of the stand-out acts from the Kind of Shoegaze Vol. 1 compilation focused on young Chinese bands that was released at the start of the year, NarrowLaneAngel formed in Inner Mongolia in 2023. In August of that year, they released an eponymous debut EP. 2. 'Limpid' - Forsaken Autumn Based in Shanghai, Forsaken Autumn have been together since 2011, propelled by the talents of britlulu (who also founded the East Asia Shoegaze Festival) and singer Ecke Wu. Released at the tail-end of 2015, Forsaken Autumn’s record Whenere — dubbed “the Chinese Loveless” by one commenter on Bandcamp — is a classic in Chinese shoegaze circles. 3. 'Nostalgia' - Summer Daze Founded in 2021, Summer Daze are another band who featured on the Kind of Shoegaze compilation series from Amemoyo. After a couple of early EPs, they've put out four new singles over the course of this year. 4. 'Firework' - The White Tulips Xiamen music scene stalwart Chen Zhenchao (also known as Soda) has moved away from shoegaze into surf-rock and dream- and city-pop territory with his more recent projects, but in 2015 he and his band The White Tulips delivered the decidedly shoegazey Fondle. It’s re-release on vinyl in 2021 was a nod to its status as a Chinese shoegaze classic. 5. 'Float' - Chocland.doc 巧克力文件岛 Hebei five piece Chocland.doc apparently first came together at a former residence of Eileen Chang, but are seemingly yet to write a song based on Lust, Caution or any of her other novels. "Of course, the name of the band has no meaning," they say, "what you understand is what you understand." 6. 'Is your dream still out-focus' - Lunacid Another one of China's newer shoegaze acts, Lunacid were formed in 2023. The trio hail from Changsha and also featured on the Kind of Shoegaze compilation series. 7. '迷航' ('Dazedtrek') - 哲学思潮 (Philosophy Currents) Formed just last year, 哲学思潮 hail from Nanning in Guangxi province, near the border with Vietnam. Their debut album Dazedtrek was recently made available on Bandcamp. 8. 'Detached' - The Numen Shanghai-based quartet The Numen met on arts review platform Douban and have pursued a shared love of shoegaze and indie-rock since the summer of 2023. They namecheck shoegaze greats such as My Bloody Valentine's Kevin Shields among their influences. 9. 'Cat Tenant (Summer)' - Baby Formula Formed by “three boring people with no expectations for the unknown journey ahead”, Beijing band Baby Formula came seemingly out of nowhere, dropped an impressive eponymous debut album in the autumn of 2013, and then promptly disappeared again. Still, their music continues to resonate over a decade later. 10. 'star' - Dear Eloise As frontman for long-running band PK14, Yang Haisong is one of the godfathers of Chinese post-punk. Yet he’s also played a pivotal role in bringing more experimental, noisy, and yes, shoegazey sounds to the fore. Formed in 2007 with his wife (and one-time PK14 bassist) Sun Xia, Dear Eloise have released a string of atmospheric records over the years and remain an influential act in China. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Why did the Soviet Union collapse? Which lessons from Cold War history are relevant for China’s future? To discuss the successes, failures, and strategies of Soviet leaders, ChinaTalk interviewed Yakov Feygin. Feygin is the author of Building a Ruin: The Cold War Politics of Soviet Economic Reform, which examines how various Soviet leaders, institutions, and economists attempted to boost Soviet growth and national power. Co-hosting today is Jon Sine, writer of the Cogitations substack. We discuss: The strengths and limitations of the Stalinist economic model, Khrushchev’s shift to “peaceful competition” with capitalism, Alternative policy paths that could have saved the Soviet Union, How technological optimism shaped Soviet reform efforts, inspiring the CCP in the process, Parallels between the institutions of the Soviet Union and those of contemporary China, The battle between political scientists and historians when analyzing the political economy of authoritarian states. Outro music: Building a Ruin - Skyclad (Youtube link) Links to all the books and papers referenced in this show are available on the ChinaTalk substack. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

林宏文是《晶片島上的光芒》一書的作者,這本書深入探討了台積電的歷史、管理方法和國際角色。作為台灣最資深的半導體記者之一、林宏文以其三十多年的行業經驗,為讀者呈現了一個全面而生動的台灣半導體產業發展故事。 訪談中、主要討論了以下幾個關鍵話題: 台積電的創立背景及其在全球半導體產業中的獨特定位 台灣政府在推動半導體產業發展中的角色,特別是工研院和科學園區的貢獻 台積電的管理模式,包括研發與製造部門的平衡以及人才培養策略 台灣半導體產業的國際競爭力,尤其是與三星等競爭對手的比較 台積電在全球地緣政治中的角色,以及"矽盾"這一概念的由來和影響 AI時代對半導體產業的影響,特別是對記憶體和邏輯晶片整合的需求 台灣與美國在看待國際關係上的差異,以及這種差異對台灣國際戰略的影響 Special thanks to the host of this interview, Arrian Ebrahimi of the Chip Capitols substack. Cohosted by ChinaTalk editors Nicholas Welch and Lily Ottinger. Outtro music: Right Here Waiting, by Richard Marx. Youtube Link. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome back to part two of our interview with Yasheng Huang 黄亚生, the author of The Rise and Fall of the EAST: How Exams, Autocracy, Stability, and Technology Brought China Success and Why They Might Lead to Its Decline. We cover a lot of ground in this two-hour installment. During the first hour, we discuss… The aspects of imperial China’s governance Mao chose to embrace, and those he chose to abandon, The factors enabling Mao’s radical policies compared to imperial rulers, Why China was able to grow so much faster than India, despite the setbacks of the Cultural Revolution, Statistical approaches for evaluating the effectiveness of autocratic development models, China’s economic reforms and rural development policies in the 1980s, How the events of 1989 permanently altered China’s trajectory, Whether the rise of Xi Jinping was inevitable, In the second hour, we discuss... The Steelman case for why China needed a leader like Xi Jinping, What sets Xi apart from his predecessors, Succession challenges and the importance of term limits in authoritarian states, Why engagement with China failed to produce political liberalization, How the US could have better leveraged economic relations with China, Creative approaches to human rights advocacy in China. Outro music: Nothing to My Name (一无所有) by Cui Jian (崔健) (Youtube Link) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yasheng Huang 黄亚生 is the author of one of the decade’s greatest books about China — The Rise and Fall of the EAST: How Exams, Autocracy, Stability, and Technology Brought China Success and Why They Might Lead to Its Decline. It’s a rich book, a product of a career of reflections, with each page delivering something novel and provocative. In this first half of our two-part interview, we discuss… How the imperial examination system (known as keju) shaped Chinese governance, culture, and society, Why autocratic Chinese dynasties benefitted from a meritocratic bureaucracy, Statistical methods for analyzing social mobility in imperial China, How the keju system survived the Mongol conquest, What the tradeoffs in the imperial exam system can teach us about the future economic prospects of China and Taiwan. Co-hosting today is Ilari Mäkelä, host of the On Humans podcast. NOTES (Courtesy of Ilari) A Rough Timeline of Chinese history: Pre–221 BCE: Disunity (e.g. Warring States) 221 BCE – 220: Unity (Qin & Han dynasties) 220 – 581: Disunity (“Han-Sui Interregnum”) 581 – 1911: Unity (Sui, Tang, Song, Yuan, Ming, and Qing Dynasties) Historical figures Emperor Wanli 萬曆帝 | Shen Kuo 沈括 (polymath) | Zhu Xi 朱熹 (classical philosopher) | Hong Xiuquan 洪秀全 (leader of the Taiping Rebellion) | Yuan Shikai 袁世凯 (military leader) | Chiang Kai-shek 蔣介石 (military leader and statesman) Modern scholars Ping-ti Ho 何炳棣 (historian) | Clair Yang (economist) | Joseph Needham (scientist and historian) | Daron Acemoglu | James Robinson Historical terms Keju civil service exams | Taiping Rebellion REFERENCES A lot of the original data discussed in the episode is original from Huang’s book. As an exception, Huang references his co-authored article on civil service exams and imperial stability, written with Clair Yang. Outtro music: 等着你回来 by 白光, a 1930s Shanghai starlet https://open.spotify.com/track/0aHMT9dIdPDz094fc37Xq0?si=d1591ff2339d421c Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

To discuss America’s comparative advantages in national competition and the structural forces that drive (and limit) innovation, ChinaTalk interviewed Kumar Garg. Formerly an Obama official in the Office of Science and Technology Policy, Kumar spent several years at Schmidt Futures focusing on science and technology philanthropy. He has been a mentor and cheerleader for ChinaTalk over the years, and he is the president of the newly established Renaissance Philanthropy. We discuss: The inspiration behind Renaissance Philanthropy and its focus on mid-scale, field-transforming ideas Strategies for identifying underexplored, high-impact projects — including weather forecasting, carbon sequestration, and datasets on neurocognition Structural challenges for R&D funding at the level of government and universities The role of focused research organizations like OpenAI in accelerating progress and understanding long-term drivers of productivity A wide angle-view of US-China competition and strategic innovation The underresearched importance of alliance management. Outtro music: Song 1 - If ye love me - Thomas Tallis and the Cambridge Singers (Youtube Link) Song 2 - Recercare (I) - Francesco Spinacino and Robert Meunier (Youtube Link) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Michael Collins is the acting chair of the National Intelligence Council (NIC). He has spent 28 years in the intelligence community, starting as a career analyst in the CIA focused on East Asia before moving into leadership roles. He served as chief of staff for the CIA deputy director and worked on modernization efforts in the agency. We discuss… How the intelligence community informs high-level policymaking, Why different institutional approaches are needed to collect intelligence on non-state actors vs nation-state adversaries, Challenges in assessing China’s technological and military capabilities, “Narrative Intelligence” and areas where intelligence agencies have a unique edge, Strategies for improving long-term forecasting and avoiding groupthink. Outro music: Scorpions - Wind Of Change (Youtube Link) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

To discuss the post-election future of US competition policy, ChinaTalk interviewed Peter Harrell and Nazak Nikakhtar. Nazak served in the Trump administration after a long career as a civil servant, where she was instrumental in shaping the Commerce Department’s work on China, first at the International Trade Administration and later leading the Bureau of Industry and Security. Peter worked in the Biden administration on the National Economic Council and National Security Council, focusing on international economics, export controls, and investment restrictions. We discuss… The role of the executive in setting the industrial policy agenda Leadership shortcomings in the Biden and Trump administrations Competition with China — bipartisan consensus, bureaucratic inertia, and strategies to stop wasting time. Advice for America’s next president, from export controls to pharmaceutical decoupling and alliance management Creative approaches to supply chain resilience This is 2023 CSET report Jordan referenced (See the “Understanding the Intangibles section) Outtro Music: Jun Mayuzumi - Black Room (Youtube Link) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jeffrey Ding is a professor at George Washington University, leading US scholar on China’s AI, and the creator of the ChinAI Substack. In honor of the publication of his new book, Technology and the Rise of Great Powers, enjoy this interview with Jeff from the ChinaTalk archives. Jeff Ding argues in a 2023 paper that great powers must harness general-purpose technologies if they want to achieve global dominance. That is, diffusion capacity (not just innovation capacity) is critical to economic growth — and China actually fares much worse in diffusion capacity than mainstream narratives imply. In this show, we discuss the historical underpinnings of that argument and apply it to AI today — drawing out policymaking lessons spanning centuries of technologically driven great power transitions. We also get into: Why long-term productivity growth is driven by the diffusion of general-purpose technology, and what makes this so crucial for great power competition; Historical lessons from the UK, Soviet Union, US, and Germany illustrating the cultural and policy roadblocks to tech diffusion; The importance of decentralized systems, and how this helped America win the Cold War Why China’s diffusion capacity lags behind its innovation capacity, and how America should avoid getting locked into any one technological trajectory. Co-hosting is Teddy Collins, formerly of DeepMind and the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy. Outro music: 分享那奇沃夫/Prodby玉的单曲《亚克西》(Youtube Link) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Thanks to The Innovation Alliance for sponsoring this episode. The Innovation Alliance is a coalition of research and development-based technology companies representing innovators, patent owners, and stakeholders who believe in the critical importance of maintaining a strong patent system that supports innovative enterprises of all sizes. To discuss the domestic and international implications of patent policy, ChinaTalk interviewed Brian Pomper. Brian was the Chief International Trade Counsel to Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus, and he is now a partner at Akin Gump. We discuss: The history of America’s innovation hegemony, from the signing of the Constitution to patent trolls and Elon Musk Why big tech companies spent decades systematically attacking the foundations of the US patent system The thermonuclear patent war of Apple vs Samsung The evolution of Standard Essential Patents (SEPs) as a battleground for emerging tech competition Why China’s approach to patent litigation is causing controversy in Europe The intersection of patent policy and international trade agreements. Outtro music: Minitel Rose - Magic Powder (Youtube Link) Here's the 2-hour show on global tech standards from the ChinaTalk archives: Global Standards: What's the Deal? Spotify link, Apple Podcasts Link Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Here at ChinaTalk, we break the ice on all things international relations, and today we are diving into a topic that is snow joke — icebreakers! We interviewed William Henagan and Robert Obayda, both directors of the NSC. We discuss: How Canada, Finland, and the United States are leveling up their cooperation in the Arctic through the Icebreaker Collaboration Effort (ICE Pact); The mechanics of industrial policy in the US government; Why cranes matter for national security, and the benefits of using carrots vs sticks; What icebreakers are for, and how Finland is punching above its weight in the NATO alliance. Co-hosting today is former ChinaTalk intern Alexander Boyd, who is currently at the China Digital Times. Outtro music: Arctic Monkeys — A Certain Romance (link) and Mardy Bum (link) Pictured: the Russian icebreaker Yamal. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Chris Kirchhoff was a founding member of the Defense Innovation Unit (DIU) and previously worked in the Obama NSC. He recently published a book called Unit X: How the Pentagon and Silicon Valley Are Transforming the Future of War. He wrote: “To the extent present military and civilian leadership is articulating its strategy, it is one built, for the most part, on a continuation of previous programmatic and budgetary trendlines. If there is a strategy for losing a future war in China, this is it.” Unit X traces the evolution of the Defense Innovation Unit (DIU), a group of Pentagon insurgents who are fighting to change how the DoD relates to emerging technologies. We discuss: The origin story of DIU and its early struggles to break Pentagon bureaucracy; How DIU leveraged “waiver authority” to circumvent red tape under Defense Secretary Ash Carter; Why the defense industrial base is ill-equipped to keep pace with technological change; The case for shifting more DoD spending to non-traditional tech companies; Lessons from commercial spaceflight for future AI governance, including potential issues with a “Manhattan project for AI.” Outtro music: 告五人 Accusefive - 愛人錯過 Somewhere in Time (Youtube Link) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is a show about globalization, fashion design, and the future of manufacturing-based economic growth. For a breather from the election chaos, ChinaTalk interviewed Will Lasry, Montreal-based designer, manufacturing specialist, and founder of Glass Factory. Will and his team are on a mission to make manufacturing transparent. They fly all around the world making documentaries on clothing factories and playing matchmaker between designers and producers. Check out his Youtube channel here. We discuss: How clothes are made, including the complicated processes behind distressed denim and other trends; What makes a country an ideal destination for manufacturing clothing, and whether rising labor costs will drive the industry out of China entirely; Xinjiang cotton, environmental destruction, and other unethical practices hanging over the fashion industry; Why Gucci and other high-end designers are betting that “Made in India” will soon be even more chic than “Made in Italy.” Co-hosting today is longtime ChinaTalk editor Irene Zhang. Outtro music: Vinida Weng - WAIYA! (Youtube Link) Thumbnail image: Link. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What does JD think about currency, tariffs, and industrial policy? How has the Strategic Patroleum Reserve evolved into new relevance with some fun new powers over the past few years, and how can America take lessons from this success and apply them to addressing critical minerals? And what secrets of policy entrepreneurship can Arnab teach me? To discuss we have on Arnab Datta of Employ America and Matt Klein of The Overshoot podcast. Plus we get some parent corner! Outtro music: Melody by Ash Island (matched my mood of wanting to scream things I don't understand) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHWWGm0nxYk Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Where is Congress on AI? How will a second Trump term impact US innovation? Does Congress have what it takes to step up and legislate in a world without Chevron? To discuss, ChinaTalk interviewed Senator Todd Young of Indiana (R). He’s a rare breed on Capitol Hill these days: an actual legislator. Sen. Young drafted the Chips and Science Act with Sen. Schumer and is the co-author of my personal favorite bill this Congress which aims to establish an Office of Global Competition Analysis. He announced earlier this year that he would not be endorsing Trump’s candidacy this cycle. We get into… Biden’s woes The case for an office of tech net assessment The future of tech legislation post-Chevron The Senate’s AI Policy Roadmap and where the GOP is on AI regulation Chinese espionage and high-skill immigration policy Outtro music: AC/DC - Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap (Youtube Link) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

How can Shakespeare help explain the dynamics we're seeing around Biden today? We get into King Lear, Richard II, Macbeth and Coriolanus to illustrate themes on conniving courtiers, political marriages, and politicians facing the end. Joining us today: Eliot Cohen, author of The Hollow Crown, two dramaturgs Drew Lichtenberg and Kate Pitt, as well as actor Phil Schneider. Kate's substack: https://shakespearenews.substack.com/ Phil's still looking for an agent! Reach out to me [email protected] to connect with him! Outtro music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEqnXNsAFL8 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What will it take for the US to remain competitive in 21st-century technologies? Is high state capacity a thing of the past? To discuss, ChinaTalk interviewed David Lin, Abigail Kukura, and Venkat Somala from the Special Competitive Studies Project. SCSP’s new report outlines exactly how America should compete in the tech-powered future of geopolitics. We get into… The role of public-private research partnerships and SCSP’s relationship with the National Security Commission on Artificial Intelligence; A strategy for upgrading US institutions with the help of emerging technologies like AI; The historical decline of government-backed research in the US; China’s industrial espionage and the potential for stolen innovations to consolidate authoritarianism across the globe; Bureaucratic moonshots and techniques for communicating urgency to the slow-moving American polity. Our past episode on tech net assessment: Crafting A National Tech Strategy and Reviving Net Tech Assesment (Spotify Link) (Apple Podcasts Link) Our past episode on bureaucratic moonshots: Peter Harrell on Bureaucratic Barriers to Competition (Spotify Link) (Apple Podcasts Link) Outtro music: SadSvit - Касета (Youtube Link) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

How could AI change the global balance of power? What could the US and allies do to preserve national moats? To discuss, ChinaTalk interviewed the CEO of Scale AI, Alex Wang. In a blog post announcing Scale’s $1 billion fundraising success, Alex wrote that Scale is aiming to grow into the world's data foundry for AI. Alex grew up in Los Alamos, New Mexico, with two physicist parents who worked in the national labs, and he started Scale in college. I am particularly excited to have Alex on the show because he is perhaps the only private-sector AI leader working with the DoD and thinking seriously about the national security implications of AI. We discuss: The three key factors limiting rapid AGI takeoff, and how quickly these barriers will be overcome; China’s strengths and weaknesses in the race for AGI; National security implications for winning (or losing) the AI race; Prospects for AI net assessment and the case for a Manhattan project for data; Methods to prevent AI espionage without kneecapping innovation or profiling immigrants. Outtro music: Zach Bryan - Pink Skies (Youtube Link) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Is Cold War II upon us? What should America do to prevent it from becoming a hot war? To discuss, ChinaTalk interviewed Dmitri Alperovitch. Dmitri emigrated from Russia in 1994 at age 13. He co-founded the leading cybersecurity startup Crowdstrike, and has spent the past four years running his new think tank, the Silverado Policy Accelerator. He's also the author of the new book World on the Brink: How America Can Beat China in the Race for the Twenty-First Century. We discuss: Lessons from Cold War crises that almost went nuclear; Underappreciated parallels between the Soviet Union and China today; Groupthink in Washington as well as in Silicon Valley; What a productive economic relationship with China would look like given national security concerns; Some bold military and diplomatic recommendations for Taiwan; … and more! Work with Matt at Open Philanthropy: Clickable link, URL: https://jobs.ashbyhq.com/openphilanthropy/f33460e1-e092-46ae-918a-85338ffad9a3 Kennedy's speech to the American people regarding the Berlin Wall: JFK Library. Outtro music: Leningradskie mosty from 1957 USSR Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jake Newby is the author of Concrete Avalanche, a free newsletter about music from China. Today, he's here to play you some of his favorite tracks from 2024 thus far — including everything from psychedelic rock to rare Uyghur folk, and from Beijing kawaii core to Tibetan Buddhist chants mixed with footwork. 00:00:00 'Narcissus' Death' — Backspace (read more) 00:05:38 '红喷泉' — Pepper Heart (read more) 00:09:35 'Mail from the River' (live) — Wang Wen (read more) 00:15:30 '她的力量来自海洋' — Yang Haisong & Wang Xiaofeng (read more) 00:22:32 'Ollie' — 西红、CNdY (read more) 00:26:43 'Lost in Bamboos' — Cola Ren (read more) 00:30:38 'Southern Shanghai' — Voision Xi (read more) 00:34:20 'Liquid' — Duck Fight Goose (read more) 00:36:54 '玉林敬酒歌‘ — Run Run Run (read more) 00:40:35 'Mountains in Yukashima' — Birdstriking (read more) 00:45:38 'SonicBaby' — XIAOWANG (read more) 00:48:25 'My Vagina' — Fakeorgasm (read more) 00:50:25 'Mantra of Vajra Armour' — Howie Lee (read more) 00:54:08 'Bash Bayawan Muqam' — Mekit Dolan Muqam Group (read more) 00:59:13 'Μῆνιν ἄειδε, θεὰ παραμαινομένη ἐμοῦ...' — Ὁπλίτης (read more) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Are politicians and actors two sides of the same coin? Can you become a better public speaker by studying soliloquies? What can Shakespeare teach us about the nature of power? To discuss, ChinaTalk interviewed Eliot Cohen: SAIS professor, military historian, and counselor to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. He is also the author of The Hollow Crown: Shakespeare on How Leaders Rise, Rule, and Fall. Co-hosting is Jordan’s little brother, actor Phil Schneider. He recently graduated from Yale where he starred in a production of Hamlet. He’s played Romeo, Octavius Valentine, Richard II, and Leontes. Also, he’s looking for a new agent — reach out at [email protected]! They discuss: Royal/executive power — what getting it does to you, and why relinquishing it is so hard; Court intrigues of yore (and today); Timeless techniques for exhorting and manipulating the masses; What makes a great speech; What it really means to be an effective leader, and how great leaders know when it's time to quit. Nixon's Farewell speech: Youtube link. Outtro audio: Orson Welles Recounts Crossing Paths With Hitler And Churchill. Youtube link. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices