Before You Quit

Church conflict doesn’t just hurt people—it clouds God’s glory and weakens the church’s witness to the world. While there are many causes, one often overlooked issue is that many church members haven’t been taught how to think well about pastoral authority or how to follow in a healthy, biblical way. In the wider world, “followership” is being studied more seriously, but the church has largely neglected it—or worse, confused it. Because of real concerns about abuse, many avoid talking about authority altogether. But ignoring it leaves the church vulnerable, especially in difficult seasons. This Podcast aims to help believers become wise, healthy followers who support godly leadership and contribute to a thriving church—one that ultimately brings glory to God. Order Scott’s book here! ABOUT SCOTT MASON: “Scott Mason spent half a career in the business world before being called to pastoral ministry. He spent 15 years serving as an associate pastor and a senior pastor at several churches of varying sizes. Some of these were established churches, and some were church plants. He has graduate degrees from the Elliot School of International Affairs at George Washington University and from Liberty Theological Seminary, as well as a Doctor of Ministry from Bethel Seminary.” The post Podcast 158: Respecting Pastoral Authority (Scott Mason) appeared first on Before You Quit.

Several months ago, former actor and apologist Kirk Cameron stepped squarely on an evangelical hornet’s nest—and didn’t flinch. On a podcast with his son, he planted his apologetical feet firmly on one of the most controversial views of hell: annihilationism, also known as conditional immortality. The backlash was swift—but so was something else: renewed interest in a doctrine many have quietly avoided. What is hell, really? What does the Bible actually say? And how do we square it with a just and holy God? Now, I don’t agree with Cameron’s position—in fact, I think it’s dangerous. But I’ll say this: I’m glad we’re talking about it. Because the full gospel isn’t just comforting—it’s confronting. It tells a story of grace and glory, but also of judgment. And we can’t afford to edit that out. In this episode, I sit down with my go-to theology guy, Pastor Dan Samms, to dig into the biblical doctrine of hell, how it should be preached, and how we handle the tough, emotional questions that come with it. Pastor Dan is deeply committed to doctrine who believes if the pastor is going to be passionate about anything, it needs to be about what he believes concerning the truths of God’s Word. Dan’s primary role is equipping the saints to make disciples. He pastors Restoration Church. He also teaches theology for Liberty University and for Underground Seminary. Dan is in love with his wife, Christy. They have three kids, a few chickens, and an awesome dog named “Sam.” Dan drinks good coffee, enjoys fine woodworking, and writes theology curriculum. Christy is a licensed counselor. She owns Hope Counseling and Consultation Services, LLC and is an incredible mother who has a variety of hobbies . Together, they raise their kids, lead the church, and enjoy God’s blessings and they do all that in Amherst, Oh. The post Podcast 157: WHAT ABOUT HELL! (Pastor Dan Samms) appeared first on Before You Quit.

We live in a broken world, and that can often leave us broken. Trauma is often the result of specific events in our lives that leave a lasting mark, often leading to a profound deep deep-seated sense of isolation and pain that can also lead us to make bad choices. A child is molested at a young age, and this event leaves a lasting mark as they grow older, finding it difficult to enjoy life, function well at work, or live in healthy relationships. A soldier sees things in war, comes home, and never talks about it with his family and friends. This is trauma. Even pastors face traumatic events. When people tell me they have been traumatized by a church, I will jokingly say, “Try pastoring for over thirty years, and I will talk to you about trauma.” In this podcast, John Kerr and I talk about how the pastor, or any Christian for that matter, can learn the skills on how to help people going through trauma. We also desire to help you if you have experienced trauma. We also talk about how there is hope in the gospel. Jesus, by dying on the cross, experienced more trauma than we ever will. And he understands us, provides comfort and healing in the gospel, and puts the right people in our lives to help us through our painful events. You can be set free from trauma. In Hebrews 4:15, we are given this wonderful promise: “For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.” John Kerr is a licensed counselor and graduated from Brown University. He lives in Toccoa Ga and currently working in addiction counseling. The post Podcast 156: The Pastor and Trauma Counseling (John Kerr) appeared first on Before You Quit.

Choosing godly elders is essential to the health of the church. Pastor Charles Swindoll writes, Every church is the lengthening shadow of those who lead it. Therefore, no issue is more important in any church than having the most-qualified people who model true spirituality serving in leadership as elders. This explains why the lists of qualifications in 1 Timothy 3:1–7 and Titus 1:5–9 are so strict and demanding. Unfortunately, in most churches of America, the method of appointing and selecting those who lead is skewed. In those churches, leaders are chosen by majority vote, having been selected because the candidates are good businessmen or popular among the congregation or wealthy or long-time members or well-known, impressive individuals in the community. Nice and important as those factors may be, they have nothing to do with whether a person is qualified to be a servant leader and to be able to guide the flock of God in a way that honors the Lord Jesus Christ. In this podcast, I interview Pastor Hobie Wood of Christ Presbyterian Church in Clarksville, GA, on his 14 years of experience choosing the right elders for your church. Hobie is married to Hannah, and they have 3 children. He is a native of Tiger, Ga., a graduate of Clemson University (B.S.) and Reformed Theological Seminary in Charlotte, NC (MDiv.). Prior to seminary and being called to be the pastor at Christ Presbyterian, Hobie and Hannah were on staff with Campus Crusade for Christ (Cru) at Appalachian State University in Boone, NC. He’s a rabid Clemson fan, a cyclist, and a (very) novice fly-fisherman. The post Podcast 155: Choosing Elders (Rev. Hobie Wood) appeared first on Before You Quit.

Those who grew up during World War 2 are gradually leaving us. Most who are alive are in their 90s or older. It’s important we keep their memories alive. Both my father and mother grew up in Europe and experienced the trauma of growing up under Nazi Occupation. In this podcast, I interview my 93-year-old mother about her story. Three years ago, my father passed away at the age of 93. My mother lives near us, and while diagnosed with stage three cancer, she remains independent and relatively healthy. For an interview I did with my father, you can click here.   The post Podcast 154: Growing Up Under Nazi Occupation (Janine Schultz) appeared first on Before You Quit.

Charles Spurgeon said of the Bible, “To me the Bible is not God, but it is God’s voice, and I do not hear it without awe.” I did a quick review on Amazon of the number of books titled “Hearing God’s Voice.” I was amazed at the dozens of books written on that title. For example, Priscilla Shirer in her book, He Speaks to Me, writes, “God desires to speak to you through His Word and His Holy Spirit. By learning to listen to God’s voice and committing to obey Him, you will draw closer to God with a deeper desire to serve Him faithfully.” Did you see her distinction, “through His Word AND His Holy Spirit.”? Is hearing God’s voice something separate from reading scripture? Henry Blackabee, in his book Hearing God’s Voice, writes, “This book is about hearing God’s voice, and by reading it, Christians need to learn to hear God’s voice.” He argues that just as those in scripture learned to hear God’s voice, so can you. Dr. Dan Samms and I ask, “How do we hear God’s Voice?” Our answer is, through his Word, through scripture. Dan is in love with his wife, Christy. They have three kids, a few chickens, and an awesome dog named “Sam.” Dan drinks good coffee, enjoys fine woodworking, and writes theology curriculum. Christy is a licensed counselor. She owns Hope Counseling and Consultation Services, LLC, and is an incredible mother who has a variety of hobbies. Together, they raise their kids, lead the church, and enjoy God’s blessings. Dan wrote a book, Follow: A Handbook for Making Disciples of Jesus Christ. It’s a handy tool for guiding people through initial steps in following Jesus. You can purchase it on Amazon.com, and it is inexpensive enough that you can easily buy a copy for a friend and read it together. Dan’s primary role at Restoration is equipping the saints to make disciples. Email: [email protected] Instagram: @roaringshepherd Website: www.undergroundseminary.net The post Podcast 153: Hearing God’s Voice (Dr. Dan Samms) appeared first on Before You Quit.

To understand transgenderism, we must understand our fallen nature. God created us in his image, and this is distorted by sin. The pressure from society to accept that you are born in the wrong body only leads to fatalism and despair. The gospel, however, brings hope and points to the restoration of our God created design through the God-man, Christ Jesus. In this podcast, my cohost and I discuss the origins of transgenderism, societal pressures, and how the church can better address the issue. Here is a sermon Pastor Dan Stegeman preached on the subject: Click the link here. Below is the lecture Pastor Dan Stegeman gave on the subject: Click the link here. For the Focus On the Family article on how to address transgenderism with your family, click the link here.   The post Podcast 152: Transgenderism and the Gospel appeared first on Before You Quit.

John Owen wrote, “A minister may fill his pews, his communion roll, the mouths of the public, but what that minister is on his knees in secret before God Almighty, that he is and no more.” Most pastors that I know are committed to a prayer life. However, it is something that is easily neglected. The weight of the sermon and the burdens for his people will cause the pastor to look for help, and the best help comes from the Lord Jesus. King David wrote in Psalm 34:6, “This poor man called out, and the LORD heard him; He saved him from all his troubles.” In this podcast, Pastor John Fogal discussed together the challenges for a praying pastor, the importance of prayer for the sermon, and the critical need to prayer for those he shepherds. John W. Fogal lives in Ft. Wayne, IN. He pastored for twenty years and served as a district superintendent with the Christian and Missionary Alliance for 18 years. He has also served as a coach for pastors and churches. John is also the author of Living the Beatitudes. Click on the book cover to order John’s book. The post Podcast 151: The Pastor and His Prayer Life (Pastor John Fogal) appeared first on Before You Quit.

What is good, Gospel preaching. We believe it must center on preaching both the law and the gospel. According to Eric Beach from 9 Marks, Scripture contains both commands to obey (law) and promises to believe for salvation (gospel). These are not antithetical to each other. Instead, they play indispensable yet different roles in the lives of Christians. A “gospel-centered” hermeneutic which unintentionally downplays or sidelines the commands of God for Christians will often result in significant problems over the long-term. The solution is not to downplay the gospel with a soft moralism or sideline the law with a soft antinomianism. Rather, teachers should proclaim both the law and the gospel. Pastor, preach the gospel of Christ the glorious savior in every sermon. But also preach the whole counsel of the word of God. Give your sheep God’s instructions and his commands for holy living. (See link here) Pastor Dan Samms and I discuss the importance of preaching LAW AND GOSPEL and how to frame the sermon so it does here in this podcast. Dan is in love with his wife, Christy. They have three kids, a few chickens, and an awesome dog named “Sam.” Dan drinks good coffee, enjoys fine woodworking, and writes theology curriculum. Christy is a licensed counselor. She owns Hope Counseling and Consultation Services, LLC, and is an incredible mother who has a variety of hobbies. Together, they raise their kids, lead the church, and enjoy God’s blessings. Dan wrote a book, Follow: A Handbook for Making Disciples of Jesus Christ. It’s a handy tool for guiding people through initial steps in following Jesus. You can purchase it on Amazon.com, and it is inexpensive enough that you can easily buy a copy for a friend and read it together. Dan’s primary role at Restoration is equipping the saints to make disciples. Email: [email protected] Instagram: @roaringshepherd Website: www.undergroundseminary.net   The post Podcast 150: Preaching Law and Gospel (Pastor Dan Samms) appeared first on Before You Quit.

I interviewed Pastor Matt Cohen on the discipline of expository preaching. Below is a summary of what expository preaching is from Qot Questions. See the link here. Expository preaching involves the exposition, or comprehensive explanation, of the Scripture; that is, expository preaching presents the meaning and intent of a biblical text, providing commentary and examples to make the passage clear and understandable. The word exposition is related to the word expose—the expository preacher’s goal is simply to expose the meaning of the Bible, verse by verse. To prepare an expository sermon, the preacher starts with a passage of Scripture and then studies the grammar, the context, and the historical setting of that passage in order to understand the author’s intent. In other words, the expositor is also an exegete—one who analyzes the text carefully and objectively. (See our article “What is the difference between exegesis and eisegesis?”) Once the preacher understands the meaning of the passage, he then crafts a sermon to explain and apply it. The result is expository preaching. G. Campbell Morgan, pastor of London’s Westminster Chapel and known as “the prince of expositors,” taught that a sermon is limited by the text it is covering. Every word from the pulpit should amplify, elaborate on, or illustrate the text at hand, with a view towards clarity. He wrote, “The sermon is the text repeated more fully.” A sermon’s primary function is to present the text. Matt Cohen is the lead pastor of Citylight Church in Philadelphia, PA, where he has served since planting the church in 2011-2012. Matt is also the Dean of the Center for Christ-centered Preaching and professor of preaching at Grimke Seminary. Matt has been married to Andrea since 2007 and they have two children, Soren and Sage. To hear a recent sermon from Pastor Matt, go here. To hear Matt share about how to become a preacher, listen to this interview here. The post Podcast 149: The Pastor and Expository Preaching (Pastor Matt Cohen) appeared first on Before You Quit.

Increasingly, parents are carrying a burden for prodigal adult children. Some months ago, out of my own burden, I purchased and read Pastor James Banks’ book called Prayer for Prodigals. I used the book as part of my devotional time and found great courage and comfort from the way James uses scripture to shape his prayers for his own two children. In this podcast, we discuss not only his book but also the humble journey of living and trusting a sovereign God to answer the deep cries of the heart for our burden for adult children who are not following Jesus. Dr. James Banks’ bestselling writing on prayer and faith, translated into multiple languages, has encouraged and inspired millions around the world. James is a devotional writer for Our Daily Bread and has been a pastor and church planter for 30 years. James is also a popular speaker at churches, conferences and retreats (to learn more visit his website). He is a graduate of Westmont College and holds advanced degrees from Princeton and Gordon Conwell Theological Seminaries. He and wife Cari have been married 35 years and make their home in Durham, NC. They have two adult children and one grandchild. For more information visit JamesBanks.org, PrayersForProdigals.org and James’ Facebook Author Page. Order Pastor Jame’s books below by clicking on the image: The post Podcast 148: Praying For Your Prodigal (Pastor James Banks) appeared first on Before You Quit.

We don’t often consider the impact of the pastor’s burnout on the pastor’s wife! I sit down with Tom and Karen Friedrichs to discuss their own journey with burnout, recovery, and how God used it to prepare them to help others in ministry. Often the wife is affected differently than her husband from his burnout. If not addressed, she can withdraw from others and even from her husband. We also discuss how the church could be safer place for pastors if the leadership were protecting him better particuarly from antagonists in the church. Tom and Karen have faithfully served together in ministry for over 30 years. Throughout their journey, Tom has pastored three churches and led a parachurch ministry, while Karen has supported him as a pastor’s wife and embraced numerous ministry roles, all while working as a registered nurse. Together, they have navigated the highs and lows of ministry life — and have a deep and personal understanding of the difficulties ministry leaders face, and the weight pastors and Christian leaders carry. When faced with Tom’s own time of burnout, his sabbatical experience brought about the soul rest that he needed, developing new healthy rhythms for a fruitful next season. Because of this journey, they are passionate about walking alongside Christian leaders to foster health, sustainability, and effectiveness for the long haul. Tom is a certified counselor and an ICF-certified life and leadership coach, with special training in “Life Younique” to help others discover their true calling and purpose. He also offers Sabbatical Coaching to help those in ministry plan for a meaningful sabbatical, stay on course during it, and have successful reentry to ministry. Karen’s heart for hospitality and support for pastor’s wives shines through in her work as both a retreat host and certified Christian life coach. Together, they are committed to creating an environment where you can rest, grow and thrive. Check out their ministry Broom Tree Landing here. The post Podcast 147: Pastor Burnout and His Marriage (Tom & Karen Friedrichs) appeared first on Before You Quit.

One Sunday after preaching, I found myself gravitating to a man I knew would compliment me for another great sermon. I found that I did this every Sunday. I bypassed others and went straight for my backslapping, always sermon-affirming, never-to-disappoint friend. The day I caught myself doing this was the day I realized this was unhealthy. So, I ignored that friend and stood in the lobby, eager to talk to anyone, even those who didn’t like my sermon and were honest about it. Why are pastors like that? According to my interview with Dr. Andreas Kostenberger, it comes down to our self-image. The Bible does talk about it, but it has to be a discussion around how Jesus views us. We both agreed that God will sometimes make us insecure so that we, in time, find our security in him. Dr. Andreas Kostenberger writes this on his blog on this subject: The role of pastors in fostering a healthy self-image is vital. People may think the concern for mental health and a proper self-image is a fairly recent phenomenon, but it is not. In the pages of the Bible, we see the apostle Paul display a consistent concern for the mental health of his associates and people in the churches. We see this most poignantly by the recurrence of the Greek word group, sōphro-, typically translated into English as “self-control,” though a more accurate translation would be “sound or healthy mind.” In his letters to Timothy and Titus, Paul urges that a sound mind be pursued by church leaders (1 Tim 3:2; 2 Tim 1:7; Titus 1:8), older and younger men (Titus 2:2, 6), older and younger women (Titus 2:5; cf. 1 Tim 2:9, 15), and by every believer (Titus 2:12). Drs. Andreas and Marny Kostenberger have four adult children, have decades of experience equipping leaders for ministry, and are devoted servants of God in our local church. Andreas is a Bible teacher and prolific author with a heart for coaching men in the ministry. Marny enjoys hospitality and coaching ministry wives and other Christian women leaders. Together, Marny and Andreas have written books on marriage and family, and each has written on topics of their expertise. Andreas is well known for his love of Biblical Theology and the Gospel of John. Both of us are also certified Christian leadership coaches (CCLC). Whether you are a pastor planning a sabbatical, a missionary starting home assignment, or any Christian leader looking for refreshment, encouragement, and support, we look forward to hosting you soon at our quaint cottage home! Whether you are a pastor planning a sabbatical, a missionary starting home assignment, or any Christian leader looking for refreshment, encouragement, and support, we look forward to hosting you soon at our quaint cottage home! Check out: www.oaktreecottage.org www.biblicalfoundations.org   The post Podcast 146: The Pastor and His Identity (Dr. Andreas Köstenberger) appeared first on Before You Quit.

The Pastor taking a sabbatical has theological backing. God commanded the Old Testament doctrine of the Sabbath or rest to remember him as our creator and provider. Those who don’t rest tend to forget that. By resting, we join Him and his rest from creation, but it is also our way of preparing us for the final rest that awaits us. “Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us fear lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it.” (Hebrews 4:1) The church and the pastor need to understand the importance of the pastor’s sabbatical. It is more than taking a break from burnout and stress. Sabbaticals done intentionally will help reset the pastor’s calling, bring rest to his soul, and prepare him for longevity. In this podcast, Pastor Dan Stegeman and I discuss the biblical basis for a sabbatical, how to plan it, and how to benefit from it. Here are some helpful resources. Why Sabbaticals are Good for Your Church by Sean Nemecek The Sabbatical Planning Tool Kit by Sean Nemecek 6 Reasons Pastors Should Consider a Sabbatical By Pastor Dan Stegeman Sabbatical Planning by Mitch A. Schultz The post Podcast 145: The Pastor and His Sabbatical appeared first on Before You Quit.

Pastors struggle to develop meaningful friendships. Imagine struggling, striving, and working for the good of others. But then, when you have a need, there is no one with whom you can be honest and share your heart. Many pastors are going through this. Almost all go through it eventually. In this podcast, Pastor Ken Cluck and I discuss why friendships are difficult for pastors but why they are still critical to his personal health and effective ministry. Pastor Ken has been in pastoral ministry since 1995. His ministry has included two Indian reservations (Northern Cheyenne and Nez Perce), refugee ministry, Korean churches, and urban and rural settings. Pastor Ken holds advanced degrees in ministry and theology, including two master’s degrees and a doctorate. In addition to pastoral ministry, Ken teaches graduate and undergrad classes through Crown College and is an evaluator for Alliance Leadership Development. In both roles, he trains future pastors. He also serves as a member of the Rules and Bylaws Committee for the Christian & Missionary Alliance.Pastor Ken has been married to Yong since 1987. They have been together through thick and thin, through good times and bad. Neither is perfect, but both seek to exemplify a godly marriage and provide a loving family for their children and grandchildren. For Pastor Ken’s blog titled: With Whom Does the Pastor Talk? Click here.   The post Podcast 144: Pastors and Friendships (Pastor Ken Cluck) appeared first on Before You Quit.

Do you know what is worse than a salvation without assurance? It is an assurance without a salvation. According to Jesus that is what is going to be worse for many. This book has been written to give you the opportunity to assess your own story of salvation and the way Jesus has come to you, as well as your response to him. God saves each of us individually so each of our stories are uniquely different. At the same time, God’s work in saving us is consistent. He works in the same way so there is something consistent that will be going on in all of our lives. In this podcast, I interview Pastor Joel Van Hoogen on his book Saving Evangelicals: When Many Say, Lord! Lord! Order the book by clicking on the cover! Rev. Joel Van Hoogen is the Executive Director of Church Partnership Evangelism (CPE), an international ministry devoted to equipping and engaging the members of Christ’s Body in personal evangelism, discipleship, and church planting. Ordained in the Christian and Missionary Alliance, he pastors a small fellowship in Boise Idaho. He and His wife have 5 children and 14 grandchildren. Other related resources – Church Partnership Evangelisms website does not have any bio information, but it does have important connections to this ministry. www.traincpe.org There is a website dedicated to this book, which is embedded on CPE’s website. www.testyourtestimony.com   The post Podcast 143: Saving Evangelicals – When Many Say, Lord! Lord! (Pastor Joel Van Hoogen) appeared first on Before You Quit.

When I heard the news of Steve Lawson’s sexual sin, I threw up my hands and said, “I give up! Is there anyone we can look up to anymore? Who is next?” If you need to find out who Steve Lawson is, he was right up there with giants like RC Sproul and John MacArthur. Lawson was a board member and teaching fellow of R. C. Sproul’s Ligonier Ministries. Lawson also served as the dean of the Doctor of Ministry program at The Master’s Seminary, founded by John MacArthur. Dan and I discuss what happened, how it could happen, and, more importantly, what lessons we can learn from it. One of our takeaways is how much more we should look up to our small-town local pastor than to famous pastors who we don’t know well and do not know us. We want to remind you that if you are looking for ways to direct your end-of-the-year giving, Fruitful Vine Ministry needs your help. You can go to our support page here and follow the directions. For helpful resources on the Steve Lawson story, check out these resources. https://truthscript.com/church/the-fall-of-a-leader-lessons-from-steve-lawsons-removal/ https://banneroftruth.org/us/resources/announcements/2024/when-a-christian-leader-falls/?srsltid=AfmBOorfFqnoeZ6Iw-nElkQp00WrUGQXN_kqCdr8xU-Br-BfYczO4mnd https://www.equip.org/articles/a-christians-response-to-pastor-lawsons-moral-failure/ https://pastoral-theology.com/2021/02/22/a-response-to-the-fall-of-ravi-zacharias/ The post PODCAST 142: The Story of Steve Lawson (Dan and Mitch) appeared first on Before You Quit.

The nation of India has over 1.4 billion people. There are 2,289–2,554 groups that are considered unreached, meaning that less than 2% of the people in those groups follow Jesus. In this podcast, I interview Dan (last name withheld) to discuss his ministry of training pastors in India. Dan and the ministry he serves travel to India regularly and holds online training sessions for thousands of pastors across India. Many of these pastors have no biblical education. It’s a vital ministry. Dan and I also talk about how the church can see itself as missionally involved in the world without having to go. Training and equipping are becoming a large part of our missional commitment. As part of my prayer discipline, I pray each morning for the persecuted church across the globe. India is one of those nations where the freedom to worship Jesus is severely limited. According to Voices of the Martyr, “Christians in India are facing increased opposition from Hindu nationalists who seek to eradicate their witness for Christ and establish a “pure” Hindu nation. Despite beatings, arrests and even the murder of loved ones, persecuted Christians in India continue to faithfully advance God’s Kingdom.” Despite the persecution, the church is rapidly growing in India thanks to pastors like Dan and his ministry.   The post Podcast Ep.141 The Church in India (Daniel) appeared first on Before You Quit.

Many of us get stuck when we see contradictions in the Bible. Pastor John Fogal argues that exceptions in the Bible are never contradictions. This podcast interview will open a window to worship an amazing God who made the greatest exception ever when he extended to us redemption. John W. Fogal lives in Ft. Wayne, IN. He pastored for twenty years and served as a district superintendent with the Christian and Missionary Alliance for 18 years. He has also served as a coach for pastors and churches. John is also the author of Living The Beatitudes. EXCEPTIONS and CONTRADICTIONS The God who is revealed in Scripture is so great that He can make exceptions but never so small that He is guilty of contradictions. He can make exceptions without contradicting the foundational truths. We need spiritual discernment to know the difference. We need faith to see that God is always all His Word claims Him to be. And we need strong discipline to never turn one of God’s exceptions into an official human policy that ultimately contradicts and invalidates God’s foundational rule. He is God. We are not. The more I see of God’s exceptions the more I see the greatness of His sovereign authority and the grandeur of His radiant glory. God made it clear from the start that when a human being sins, he/she will die. Read the genealogies in Genesis 5 and you will see the number of years that each man lived, “and he died.” Except for verse 24 which reads, “And Enoch walked with God; and was not, for God took him.” Before the 10 commandments were given to Moses everyone (including Cain) instinctively knew that it was wrong to kill another human being. Yet God told Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac on the alter. When Abraham passed the test, God provided a ram, so Isaac did not die prematurely. (However, when it came time for God the Father to sacrifice His only begotten Son, “He spared not His own Son but freely gave Him up for us all.”) God told Hosea to marry a harlot (an exception) to teach him and Israel and us about His love for all of us who are “harlots” in His sight. True miracles are, by definition, exceptions that do not conform to the general rule. They transcend the general laws of nature and accomplish exceptional and unusual and rare events. The iron ax head floated on the water. The sun stood still. The bush burned but was not consumed. The Red Sea parted. Jonah was swallowed by a great fish. The three Hebrew children miraculously came out of the fiery furnace. God shut the lions’ mouths. Extraordinary miracles happened throughout the Old and New Testaments. The Virgin birth of Jesus was a miracle. So was His resurrection. None of these exceptions negated the overriding, foundational laws of God. We must remember that God’s ways and thoughts are higher and better than ours and are beyond our finding out (Isaiah 55:8-9). From our human perspective, the best of God’s “exceptions” is our great salvation. Every human being is “already condemned” and deserves the wrath of God. In His loving sovereign will He chooses us. The Bible calls it “election.” He draws us to His Son; brings us to a place of godly sorrow that leads to repentance; declares us to be justified in His sight; forgives and cleanses us when we confess our sins; makes us new creatures in Christ; calls us to be His children; and Christ is coming soon to take us to be with Him! That makes the “few” exceptional! PRAISE THE LORD! Universalists want to make this exception into a rule and conclude that, in the end, everyone will be saved and go to heaven. That is not what the Bible teaches. “But when He saved my soul, cleansed and made me whole, it took a miracle of love and grace.” THREE APPLICATIONS God’s Word makes it clear that He instituted marriage and unites a man and a woman in “one flesh” and that union is to last “until death us do part.” When the Pharisees asked Jesus about divorce He said, “a man shall leave father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh. So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.” They said to him, “Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce?” He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.” (Matthew 19:4-8) He then gave clear teaching for the restrictions on the exception called divorce. Add to the large number of marriages that end in divorce all the people who co-habit without being married and it almost seems like the exception has become the rule and the rule has become the exception.. What we call a “miscarriage” is one of God’s exceptions. There may even be times when a husband and wife and doctor need to prayerfully decide (with godly, biblical counsel) to end the pregnancy as the only way to save the mother’s life. But that is not the motivation for more than 99% of the millions of abortions. When the sperm and egg are fertil

In the five previous podcasts we reviewed Dr. Rob Reimer’s Soul Care Ministry and teachings. It is appropriate that we follow those up with a discussion of spiritual abuse in the church. I had the honor of interviewing Dawn Hill for this podcast on this subject. Dawn Hill is a Christian blogger known as The Lovesick Scribe, and the host of The Lovesick Scribe Podcast. She is passionate about sharing the truth and pointing others back to Jesus Christ through the written Word as the standard of authority for Christian living and instruction while being led by the Holy Spirit into maturity. She is the author of NonProphet Woke: The Reformation of a Modern-Day Disciple. She writes articles for Christianity.com, Servants of Grace, and her blog posts have been shared by individuals such as Tim Challies. She will be featured in the upcoming docuseries, American Gospel: Spirit and Fire. She co-leads a women’s support group with Emily Massey called Snatched from the Flames, where they minister to women who have come out of the hypercharismatic and New Apostolic Reformation movement. She is a wife to Nicholas and a mother to Anabel and Ephraim. You can follow her on The Lovesick Scribe and Instagram. The post Podcast 139: Spiritual Abuse in the Church (Dawn Hill) appeared first on Before You Quit.

In this final podcast reviewing Dr. Rob Reimer’s Soul Care Ministry, Rev. Mark Barnard of Blessing Point Ministry joins the conversation with Dan Stegeman and me. We discuss Dr. Reimer’s teachings that Christians can be indwelt by demons and we offer a biblical response. To listen to the first podcast on Soul Care, click here. To listen to the second podcast on Soul Care, click here. To listen to the third podcast on Soul Care, click here. For a full written review I wrote on Dr. Reimer’s Soul Care teaching, click here.For Mark Barnard’s paper on Reimer’s teaching on demon occupation, click here.For Testimonies from those who left Soul Care teaching, click here. For Jonathan and Brooke Gangi’s testimony of attending a Soul Care conference click here.   The post Podcast 138: Christians and Demons (Dr. Rob Reimer’s Soul Care Ministry) appeared first on Before You Quit.

For the past few weeks, we have been doing an in depth critique of Rob Reimer’s Soul Care ministry. We have attempted to show why this ministry is unbiblical and even dangerous. In this podcast, we want to continue our review with a first hand account of an individual who attended a Soul Care Conference and had a traumatic experience. In this powerful testimony, Dan interviews Brooke and Jonathan Gangi. Jonathan and Brooke Gangi have been married for 17 years and are proud parents of four girls. Jonathan is a professor at Penn State University and Brooke is a homemaker and homeschooling mom. They are members of Oakwood Presbyterian Church (PCA) in State College, PA To listen to the first podcast on Soul Care, click here. To listen to the second podcast on Soul Care, click here. To listen to the third podcast on Soul Care, click here. For a full written review I wrote on Dr. Reimer’s Soul Care teaching, click here.For Mark Barnard’s paper on Reimer’s teaching on demon occupation, click here.For Testimonies from those who left Soul Care teaching, click here. The post Podcast 137: Attending a Soul Care Conference (The story of Brooke and Jonathan Gangi) appeared first on Before You Quit.

Dan and I continued our conversation reviewing Dr. Rob Reimer’s Soul Care Ministry, today discussing his chapter on Inner Wounds. How does healing really happen? You’re deeply affected by childhood trauma, or abused as a child. This has left you struggling through life, often unable to trust others. Relationships are hard, and marriages affected.You find yourself anxious and lacking confidence. Where do you turn? Do you take a journey, by the guidance of an experienced healer, into your inner self, or does the Holy Spirit take you back to the finished work at the cross of Jesus? What difference does sound theology have on our understanding of faith, and how to overcome, or just endure, the hard stuff we face in life? Let’s find out! We hope to receive feedback and even welcome critical responses. You can email me with questions or comments at [email protected], or comment in the comment section below this page. To listen to the first podcast, click here. For a full written review I wrote on Dr. Reimer’s Soul Care teaching, click here. For Mark Barnard’s paper on Reimer’s teaching on demon occupation, click here. For Testimonies from those who left Soul Care teaching, click here. The post Podcast 136: Dr. Rob Reimer, Soul Care Part 3 (Healing Wounds) appeared first on Before You Quit.

Most of us are unfamiliar with the Church of Christ. There is one in our town, and from all appearance it looks like any other ordinary church. When you dig into their beliefs, however, there are serious concerns. For a thorough review of the Church of Christ, read this article from Got Questions here. My interest in this podcast is not at all to attack the church of Christ, but to hear Pastor Gary Phillips story of pastoring a Church of Christ church and what caused him to leave. Toccoa Christian Church minister, Gary Phillips, has been involved in Biblical ministry for over 18 years. Gary, along with wife Sandi, has served the Lord in many capacities. Married for 19 years, Gary and Sandi are loved by and cherish 5 adult children and 12 grandchildren. A well-rounded individual and lover of learning, Gary Phillips is not only well-read and educated in Biblical Scripture, but in professional studies as well. Earning 3 degrees, Gary has obtained much knowledge and real-life experience to not only teach, but to lead his congregation in a real and relevant way. (Gary has earned a Bachelor of Science degree in both Mechanical Engineering and Theology. He has also earned a Master of Divinity Degree in Counseling). Once an atheist, Gary became a follower of Christ with a strong desire to learn Scripture. Gary studied apologetics at Theology School, diligently studying the existence of God and the inspiration of Scripture. In addition to preaching over 3,000 sermons, Gary has also taught (as well as written curriculum for) many marriage classes, divorce groups, groups of parents of children, and others developed with the help of his Counseling degree. Gary explains his teaching philosophy: “90% of the sermons I preach are expository; directly from the inspired text. My illustrations, applications, videos are applicable and are up to date. I believe that if they are not, the Word of God will not be understood as relevant to our youth, our families, and it certainly will not seem relevant to our community.” The post Podcast 135: Leaving the Church of Christ (Pastor Gary Phillips) appeared first on Before You Quit.

My cohost, Dan Stegeman and I continue our review of Soul Care Ministry by Dr. Rob Reimer. This podcast comes out of the desire to be discerning. We are instructed in scripture to test everything being taught and compare it to scripture. The apostle John writes, “Do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world” (1 John 4:1). Soul Care is a ministry led by Dr. Rob Reimer which is hugely popular. We have deep concerns over the theology and practice of Soul Care and desire to review it with an open Bible. We are also concerned by the number of people who have been negatively impacted by Soul Care. We do this podcast because we care about the church and believe strongly in the authority of the scriptures to govern life and ministry. We are not attacking an individual, but questioning this individual’s teachings about what experiencing freedom and healing really looks like. We hope to receive feedback and even welcome critical responses. You can email me with questions or comments at [email protected], or comment in the comment section below this page. To listen to the first podcast, click here. For a full written review I wrote on Dr. Reimer’s Soul Care teaching, click here. For Mark Barnard’s paper on Reimer’s teaching on demon occupation, click here. For Testimonies from those who left Soul Care teaching, click here. The post Podcast 134: A Review of Dr. Rob Reimer’s Soul Care Teaching (Part Two) appeared first on Before You Quit.

This podcast comes out of the desire to be discerning. We are instructed in scripture to test everything being taught and compare it to scripture. The apostle John writes, “Do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world” (1 John 4:1). Soul Care is a ministry led by Dr. Rob Reimer which is hugely popular. We have deep concerns over the theology and practice of Soul Care and desire to review it with an open Bible. We are also concerned by the number of people who have been negatively impacted by Soul Care. We do this podcast because we care about the church and believe strongly in the authority of the scriptures to govern life and ministry. We are not attacking an individual, but questioning this individual’s teachings about what experiencing freedom and healing really looks like. We hope to receive feedback and even welcome critical responses. You can email me with questions or comments at [email protected], or comment in the comment section below this page. The post Podcast 133: A Review of Dr. Rob Reimer’s Soul Care Ministry appeared first on Before You Quit.

More than ever, as society around us devalues marriage, the church needs to respond with biblical conviction. While most statistics indicate that divorce is nearly as high among professing Christians from the secular world, we are also discovering that Christians who attend church regularly have a far better chance of surviving the enemies attempts at destroying the family. Professing believers who do not attend church have a 60% change of divorcing, and that number drops to 30% for those who do regularly attend church. The church is an important place, not only to promote godly marriage, but also respond with biblical obedience to divorce and remarriage. We encourage the pastor and church leaders to have a clear biblical policy in place that will help to strengthen the family unit. I had the privilege to interview Pastor Dan Samms on this subject. Pastor Dan is deeply committed to doctrine who believes if the pastor is going to be passionate about anything, it needs to be about what he believes concerning the truths of God’s Word. Dan’s primary role is equipping the saints to make disciples. He plants house churches and trains shepherds with Restoration House Church Network. He also teaches theology for Liberty University and for Underground Seminary. Dan is in love with his wife, Christy. They have three kids, a few chickens, and an awesome dog named “Sam.” Dan drinks good coffee, enjoys fine woodworking, and writes theology curriculum. Christy is a licensed counselor. She owns Hope Counseling and Consultation Services, LLC and is an incredible mother who has a variety of hobbies . Together, they raise their kids, lead the church, and enjoy God’s blessings and they do all that in Amherst, Oh. The post Podcast 132: Marriage, Divorce and Remarriage (Pastor Dan Samms) appeared first on Before You Quit.

I grew up to missionary parents in Papua, Indonesia, formerly, Iran Jaya. My parents served there for thirty-eight years, most of those years with a primitive tribe in the Paniai Lakes region. After World War Two, hundreds of missionaries moved to Papua and a large community of churches was planted. My parents’ main role was to train and equip pastors. Papua is a complicated place to understand. Politics, under the control of Indonesia, animism, corruption and power all came together to create conflict within the Alliance Church in Papua. Today, there is a spit group, one tied strongly to the ambition and fight for independence, and the other maintain strong roots to orthodoxy. Barry Jordan and I start our conversation by telling the story of my parents’ visit some ten years ago to the tribal area where they started their ministry, and where my sibling and I were born. My parents had been invited to speak at an area church conference. Awaiting the airplane was a large crowd. At first, it was assumed the crowd was there to greet them, but as they airplanes engine shut off, the mob began attacking the plane. Barry was one of the passengers, and he explains how for twenty minutes, they prayed and waited, and eventually the local police were able to disperse the crowd, and the airplane was able to take off. It broke my parents’ heart, especially seeing in the crowd some of the students they had taught, now there to either kill or kidnap them. In this podcast Barry and I talk about the dynamics that led to this tragic church conflict. Barry Jordan is married to Patty for forty-years, and together they have served in Papua for thirty-five years. They have three children, two grandchildren and two on the way.   The post Episode 131: Church Crisis in Papua (Barry Jordan) appeared first on Before You Quit.

How does the church remain strong on its convictions, but convey love? How do parents respond when their adult children come out as homosexual? Do you attend a gay wedding? What do you do when your son or daughter wants to bring their partner home? Jim Domen addresses these questions, but also tells his story about coming to Christ and leaving the gay lifestyle. He now offers encouragement and support to parents who are wrestling with the same questions his parents did when he was far from the Lord. Check out Jim Domen’s website here. Here is what Jim shares about himself: I never imagined that I would enter the homosexual lifestyle after being raised in a God-fearing home and accepting Christ at age seven. After I graduated from George Fox University, I was so desperate to love and be loved that I didn’t care that my partner was HIV positive. God changed my life forever on June 8, 2002, when I lost all my worldly possessions and distinctly heard God’s voice telling me to come back to Him. I told God, “I’m yours again,” and I began to realize that His strength is made perfect in my weakness – even in someone as broken as me. God began to restore me and I enrolled in seminary at Azusa Pacific University. I learned how to be obedient to God’s voice and how to interpret the Bible. God continued His work of redemption and gave me opportunities to share my story publicly. After I graduated from seminary, I became a pastor at Rose Drive Friends Church. I realized that I could no longer ignore the troublesome news stories about public policy and it discouraged me to hear Christians who did not understand how to articulate their worldview. Around this time, Proposition 8 was being fought in the culture and I found myself on the front lines promoting God’s plan for marriage: the union between a man and woman. At press conferences and rallies, I met the founder of Focus on the Family’s California Family Council, who became my boss and mentor after I was asked to join California Family Council. After six years at CFC, God strategically called me to begin Church United in 2016. Church United’s vision is to transform California for Christ by 1) Disrupting Pastors, 2) Uniting the Church, and 3) Transforming our Communities. Six years after leaving the gay lifestyle and one month before the successful passage of Proposition 8, God continued His work of restoration when I met my wife, Amanda. She is “God’s gift from Heaven.” We were married in 2009 and five years latter God blessed us with our daughter, Aliah, whose name in Hebrew means “ascending to God” – just like our praises to Him for giving us the gift of becoming parents. Two years later, Amanda gave birth to our son, Ryker, whose name means “strong leader,” and in 2018, we had our third child, Asher. Her name means “Happy and blessed.” Click on book cover to order Jim Domen’s book The post Podcast Ep.130: The Church and Homosexuality (Jim Domen) appeared first on Before You Quit.

We continue our series on the twenty-plus-year pastor. What keeps a pastor serving even when the road gets rough? How does one stay resilient during seasons of little growth, opposition and even disappointments and loss? Have you ever considered that pastoring can be mundane? How do you keep yourself passionate about preaching and shepherding? What a privilege to sit down with Pastor Kevin Hurt on his experience of pastoring in one church for 32 years. Kevin was the founding pastor of Grace Bible Church in Mountain City, GA where he served as the senior pastor for 32 years prior to the successful transition to the new senior pastor. Following the transition he was privileged to remain at Grace Bible Church where he served for 3 years as the Associate Pastor under the new senior Pastor. He has served in various counseling organizations, chairs various boards, and continues to lecture, teach and train other pastors and counselors in Biblical Counseling in the US as well as in Uganda & Ireland. He currently is serving as the pastor of discipleship at Ebenezer Baptist Church. The post Podcast Ep.129: The 20+ Year Pastor (Pastor Kevin Hurt) appeared first on Before You Quit.

We continue our series on the twenty-plus-year pastor. What keeps a pastor serving even when the road gets rough? How does one stay resilient during seasons of little growth, opposition and even disappointments and loss? Have you ever considered that pastoring can be mundane? How do you keep yourself passionate about preaching and shepherding? What a joy it was to interview pastor Milan Dekich who served for forty years in one church at Fairview Church of God in Falkville, AL. Born in 1954, Milan Brown Dekich grew up in Ringgold, Ga on chicken and cattle farm,. His education is as follows: Ooltewah High School – 1972, University of Georgia – BSEd – 1977, Anderson College School of Theology – 1980, Asbury Seminary – Doctor of Ministry 1992, Pastor of Fairview Church of God, Falkville, AL 1980- 2020, Regional Pastor of the Church of God in Alabama – 2020 – present.. Wife- Barbara Jo (Blevins) Dekich, Children- Daughter – Christal (Dekich) Ellett, Son – Milan Michael Dekich, Son-in-law – Hayes Ellett. His Hobbies – Fishing, raising Golden Retrievers, hunting artifacts.   The post Podcast Ep.128: The 20+ Year Pastor (Pastor Milan Dekich) appeared first on Before You Quit.

We continue our series on the twenty-plus-year pastor. What keeps a pastor serving even when the road gets rough? How does one stay resilient during seasons of little growth, opposition and even disappointments and loss? Have you ever considered that pastoring can be mundane? How do you keep yourself passionate about preaching and shepherding? What a joy it was to interview pastor Chuck Wall, who has served in one church for …drum roll…. 34 years. By the mercy of God – Chuck grew up in a godly home and has been a part of the C&MA all his life. He received a B.S. from Columbia Bible College (now Columbia International University) with some additional classes after graduation. Began ministry in Lexington, SC for 8 years and has been serving in Statesville, NC for 34+ years. He has been happily married to Denise for 45 years. They are the grateful and joyful parents of 5 children (and their spouses) and 11 grandchildren ( & 1 more next month). He loves to teach and unpack the truths of God’s Word because it is through God’s Word that we are instructed in how to know and walk with the Lord in every aspect of our lives. Therefore, the study, understanding and applying of the Bible is paramount in the Christian’s and the Church’s life. One of his favorite verses is 2 Corinthians 3:5 – “Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our adequacy come from God.” The post Podcast Ep.127: The 20+ Year Pastor (Chuck Wall) appeared first on Before You Quit.

Someone suggested to me recently that I interview pastors who have served in one church for twenty or more years. Great idea, I chimed. It’s actually a great subject. Most pastors don’t last five years in a church, some might stretch it to seven, or ten, but twenty? That just doesn’t happen often. There must be some reasons for longevity in ministry. Like a good investigator, I put on my Columbo hat and began knocking on doors, asking some probing questions. There are seven pastors I will be interviewing in these podcasts, from different regions and various denominations. I ask them all the same question and know the answers will vary dramatically. The first Pastor I interview is Pastor Mike Franklin. Here’s some really cool information about him; Pastor Mike earned a B.S. from Lee University, M.Ed. from the University of South Alabama, M. Div. from the Church of God School of Theology, and DMin from the Pentecostal School of Theology. After more than 40 years of pastoral ministry, he is serving in his 23rd year as Senior Pastor of The Torch in Demorest, Georgia which serves through two campuses. Pastor Mike’s ministry role also includes teaching leadership seminars, mentoring pastors, serving on several boards and committees, and leading short-term mission enterprises, and most recently appointed to the church of God State Leadership Team for Ministerial Enrichment. Among his greatest blessings in life are Connie, his wife of 41 years; three children, David, Daniel and Renée; two daughters-in-law, Abbie and Chelsea; one son-in-law, Madison; and seven grandchildren, Bailey, Asher, Maddie Rae, Arden, and James, Adeline, and one on the way. The post Podcast Ep.126: The 20+ Year Pastor (Mike Franklin) appeared first on Before You Quit.

In this podcast I interview author Mark Barnard on his book, The Corporate Church; Why We Need to Get Our House in Order. We live in a very individualistic time, where we fail to see God’s relationship to us as a corporate body. Many churches are hurting because they don’t understand what is causing their pain. The Corporate Church explores God’s relationship with Israel and how it shapes His relationship with the Body of Christ. On the surface, that objective seems mundane. Yet rediscovering how God views His people corporately radically changes how we view our church, denomination, or Christian organization. Seeing God’s people from God’s perspective completely shifts popular notions of church health and revival. It recalibrates the balance between our individualistic culture and the Church’s collective identity. A corporate perspective fosters a fundamental transformation in the way we think about and “do” church. Mark founded Blessing Point Ministries which works to enhance the fruitfulness of healthier ministries and heal wounded congregations. He authored several books related to church health. His latest title, Screwtape versus The Church, explores the nature of corporate spiritual warfare. Mark is a father, grand father and husband of over 30 years. You can learn more @blessingpoint.org. To order book, click on book cover   Check out the churchScan Inventory here Check out the article Mark wrote about the Rusty Steeple Order Mark’s book by clicking on the book cover The post Podcast Ep.125: The Corporate Church (Mark Barnard) appeared first on Before You Quit.

Pastor’s often meet together and talk shop. It takes a certain level of trust, though, for us to talk about matters of the heart than issues of the Church. I wrote this booklet, Building A Community of Trust: Eleven Things Pastors Struggle With, but Rarely Talk About with the aim of helping ministry leaders get to the heart of their struggles. Order the booklet here! Here are the eleven things in chart form that pastors struggle with but rarely talk about; The Struggle The Symptom The Possible Outcomes Insecurity I am one moment from losing it all – Inner dread of being found – Pressure to perform based on expectation of others- Pleasing others becomes more important that pleasing Jesus Expectations The pressure to meet the standards of others. – Serving with wrong motives- Disappointment and discouragement- Conflict with others who have differing expectations Apathy lack of interest, enthusiasm, or loss of passion – Loss of passion and motivation- No one follows; lends to apathy in others- Diminishing life and ministry in the church Identity Afraid that people will find out what I am really like – It is “not well” with my soul- Based on performance – “I am as good as my last sermon”What others think of me is more important than what Jesus thinks of me.Keep the pastor from being open and vulnerable. Loneliness Living with few or no true friends Pastor has no real friendsPeople’s expectation of the pastor is professional not personalCan lead to poor choices; the pastor is his own counselLeads to pastors talking shop, more than talking soul Pride A sense that I am indispensable to the church. – Rarely away from the pulpit- Has to make all the decisions himself- False humility- Can lead to sinful choices Anger Feeling of bitterness or resentment toward others; wanting others to hurt. – Act irrationally without thinking of cost- Critical and sarcastic- Use position and pulpit to address issues- Often is seen by others but not by the pastor himself Failure Ministry is not going well, not going my way. It’s just not working. – Discouragement and defeat- Second guess the call- Is often how God works best Doubt I’m not sure I am called to this; I am not sure I believe in what I do. – Lack of confidence- Lack of preparation – Comparing to those more successful – Can lead to humility and reclaiming of call Restlessness I am bored, not happy here, want to be somewhere else or doing something else – Boredom – Loss of passion- Desire for something new- Can anchor to eternal promises Sexual Purity I am distracted by so many things that I know are not healthy for me. – Susceptible to sexual temptation – Addicted or prone to view pornography.- Focus on God’s holiness can lead to freedom   The post Podcast Ep.124: Eleven Things Pastors Struggle With but Rarely Talk About, and How to Change That. (Mitch & Dan) appeared first on Before You Quit.

When you think of race and the church you likely think of the turmoil in our nation in 2020. It woke the church up, and we found ourselves asking if we are doing a good enough job understanding race, and appreciating the stories of those who hold different ethnicities than we do. How does the gospel address race? What does the Bible really say about who we are, in our distinctions, but also in our unity under family, that of Jesus Christ. To unpack all this, I had the privilege of interviewing Pastor Tom Sugimura about his book, Grace, Race and the Church, a wonderful testimony of how the church unites all people under the covering protection of the gospel. Grace, Race and the Church will introduce the reader to the important conversations in today’s social landscape. We hope these stories open people’s eyes to the racial tensions we all face in a fallen world, but also to a healthier way of starting our experiences with others. (From back cover of book) Pastor Tom Sugimura serves as a pastor , church planting mentor, and professor biblical counseling. He writes at tomsugi.com and ministers the gospel at New Life Church. He and wife, Amanda, are raising their four children in the wilds of Southern California. To order Tom’s book, click here The post Podcast Ep.123: Grace, Race and the Church (Pastor Tom Sugimura) appeared first on Before You Quit.

It was AW Tozer who wrote that “what we think about God, is the most important thing about us.” Paul in 1 Timothy 4:16 tells Timothy to, “Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.” What we believe, matters. What we believe about doctrine and theology determines how we live. I had the joy of sitting down with Pastor John W. Fogal to talk about this from his new booklet, Work Out Your Salvation, Because it is God Working in You. We often think of doctrine as mere ascent, stuff we adhere to, teach about and preach on. But, have you considered how without doctrine, we would not know how to live? Thankfully, we have been given by Jesus direction on how to live this life for him and his glory. He is the one working his life in and through us. What an exciting thing, or as John says, IT’S A BIG DEAL! And it is. I know by listening to this podcast you will be motivated to cling to Jesus, by understanding better this great salvation he has given us and the implication to our very lives. John W. Fogal lives in Ft. Wayne, IN. He pastored for twenty years and served as a district superintendent with the Christian and Missionary Alliance for 18 years. He has also served as a coach for pastors and churches. John is also the author of Living The Beatitudes. To order his book, WORK OUT YOUR SALVATION click here. To order his book, LIVING THE BEATITUDES, click here. The post Podcast Ep.122: Working Out Your Salvation, what it really means (Rev. John Fogal) appeared first on Before You Quit.

Pastoring is one of the hardest jobs around. Just ask any of us. The expectations and pressures can at times become nearly unbearable. Having said that, putting the two words, PASTORING and PTSD (okay, that’s an abbreviation, not a word, but I regress) is a surprising combination of realities. But it’s all two real; many pastors do experience something short of PTSD. My interview with Sean Nemecek opened my eyes to the deep, sometimes unbearable pressures pastors face. He also helped me understand how it can be avoided, and how it can be treated. If you are a pastor, and you’ve experienced burnout, this podcast will give you fresh perspective and offer you hope. If. you are not a pastor, but love your pastor and love your church, this podcast will provide you with the resources on how best to encourage your pastor. The role the church has in providing a supporting context for the pastor is great. We hope you will take advantage of this conversation, and look at how your church can be a healthy community not just for you and others, but also for your pastor. Here is what Sean says about himself and his work: I work to bring new hope and health to hurting pastors and their families. During my 18 years as a pastor, I went through serious ministry burnout. To recover I needed help but didn’t know where to turn. So, I built a team of people to help me— a friend, a mentor, a coach, a spiritual director, and a counselor. This approach was expensive and time-consuming, but it worked. Now, I provide the support to other pastors that wasn’t readily available to me. Since joining PIR Ministries in January of 2020, I’ve helped many pastors and their spouses navigate burnout, forced exit, or other ministry stress. My first goal is to be a friend — someone provides a safe space for pastors to be themselves without asking anything from them. If these pastors choose, I also offer clergy coaching, ministry assessments, or mentoring. My book, The Weary Leader’s Guide to Burnout, comes out of my own experience and coaching other pastors through burnout. It takes Christian leaders on a journey from burnout through recovery and on to spiritual transformation. By understanding the causes and symptoms of their burnout these leaders will be ready to take practical, actionable steps toward recovery. Then, if they choose, they will be poised to do the inner work of spiritual transformation by the power and guidance of the Holy Spirit. In the end, these leaders will emerge from burnout more confident in Christ, more connected with others, and with greater purpose, courage, and grace in their leadership. PIR Ministries is faith-based, nonprofit, para-clergy ministry. We each raise our own financial support so that we can help pastors at minimal cost to them. It’s always a challenge to raise enough support to keep going. If you would like to learn more this ministry, please visit the PIR Ministries website, contact me, or you can make a special or recurring donation here. The post Podcast Ep.121: The Pastor and PTSD (Sean Nemecek) appeared first on Before You Quit.

BYQ has tackled the subject of the Alliance decision to ordain women on several podcasts. While a number of Alliance churches have left over the decision, some desire to remain and by remaining, seek to influence change. In this BYQ podcast, Pastor Jeremy Muncy and I discuss the formation of 1:9 Alliance and its purpose. 1:9 Alliance comes out of Titus 1:9. “He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it.” I love how 1:9 Alliance seeks to go beyond just the topic of complementarianism versus egalitarianism, but to also “help God’s people value, interpret, proclaim, and apply the Word of God in fulfillment of the Great Commission.” There are eight core commitments in 1:9 Alliance. 1. Scripture 2. Hermeneutics 3. Expository preaching 4 Christ-centeredness 5. Holy Spirit dependance 6. The Great Commission 7. Complimentary design 8. Church leadership. You can find the breakdown of these core commitments and tap resources as well as join as an affiliate on the 1:9 Alliance website here. For resources and podcasts go here. About Jeremy: Jeremy Muncy loves Jesus, his wife, his children, and his church. He pastors at Westwood Alliance Church in Mansfield, OH where he has served for the past eleven years. The post Podcast Ep.120: The Alliance; Changing From the Inside (Pastor Jeremy Muncy) appeared first on Before You Quit.

My cohost Dan Stegeman and I sit down together to discuss the history, the purpose and the impact of the first ten years of Fruitful Vine Ministry. Did you know the name comes from Genesis 49:22-24( NIV)? Joseph is a fruitful vine, a fruitful vine near a spring, whose branches climb over a wall. With bitterness archers attacked him; they shot at him with hostility. But his bow remained steady, his strong arms stayed limber, because of the hand of the Mighty One of Jacob, because of the Shepherd, the Rock of Israel. That is what we want to see for pastors and ministry leaders. We know many find themselves in the throws of a battle. With bitterness, archers even within their own ranks attack with hostility. We believe even in such realities, the pastor, the international worker, the ministry leader can remain steady, strong arms limber, because of the hand of the Mighty One of Jacob, because of the Shepherd, the Rock of Israel. We rarely ask for donations on these podcasts, and probably won’t for a while. But if you are interested in supporting FVM, please go to our support page here.The post Podcast Ep. 119: What is Fruitful Vine Ministry (Mitch and Dan) appeared first on Before You Quit.

I’ve interviewed Ken Sande twice before on his ministry of Peacemaking. Here, in this podcast, Ken shares the most wonderful story of how Jesus proved himself to be the great Peacemaker, when Ken’s own father, a judge, embrace the gospel, (or was embraced by the gospel) moments before he died. Ken and I talk about his life, his home and how all this was used by Jesus to make the gospel irresistible to his father. We also discuss the encouragement this provides for those of us who live with the burden of a lost loved one. Ken Sande is the founder of Peacemaker Ministries and president of a new ministry, Relational Wisdom 360. Trained as a mechanical engineer and lawyer, Ken is passionate about bringing the life-changing power of the gospel into the lives of Christians and their churches. He has used biblical peacemaking principles to minister to parties in hundreds of conflicts, ranging from simple personal disputes to complex legal conflicts. He is the author of “The Peacemaker”, which has been translated into 15 languages, and has written numerous books, articles, and training resources on biblical conflict resolution and relational wisdom. He is a certified Christian conciliator, an editorial advisor for Christianity Today International’s church management team, and a certified emotional intelligence instructor. He and his wife, Corlette, are delighted to be grandparents and love to hike with their family in the mountains near their home in Montana. For Ken’s testimony about his father, click here. To order a copy of the Transformed pamphlet click here. To check out more resources about Ken’s ministry of Peacemaking and Relationship Wisdom, go here.   The post Podcast Ep.118: FINDING JESUS AT THE MOMENT OF DEATH (Ken Sande) appeared first on Before You Quit.

“Youth and children’s ministries have become professionalized to the point where parents feel ill-equipped to disciple their children. Our culture has become so fast-paced and loud that children and youth are finding it difficult to find their own voice. My book, VOICES, helps parents and those working with children and youth take a look at the various voices speaking into and forming the developing worldview of our youth. Dr. Griffith encourages us to look at these various through the lenses of TIME, TRANSPARENCY and TRUST.” – (Dr. Rich Griffith) In this podcast I sit down with Dr. Rich Griffith and two students, Jeremiah Cambell and Joshua Lang to discuss the subject of what voices this generation listens to, and to help them hear the right voices. To order book click on book cover below For more on my novels check my authors page here, or click on book below for my latest novel. The post Podcast Ep.117: The Voices of This Generation (Dr. Rich Griffith) appeared first on Before You Quit.

We’ve covered a number of podcasts about how important it is for the pastor to preach well. Several podcasts back my cohost, Dan Stegeman and I, talked about how important solid, biblical Christ-centered preaching is to the life of the church. Today we discuss your role, the listener in the whole experience of preaching. What should we, the listener, do, before, during and following the Sunday sermon? Consider this from the The Westminster Larger Catechism Q160: What is required of those that hear the word preached?It is required of those that hear the word preached, that they attend upon it with diligence, preparation, and prayer examine: What they hear by the scriptures; receive the truth with faith, love, meekness, and readiness of mind, as the word of God; meditate, and confer of it; hide it in their hearts, and bring forth the fruit of it in their lives. We hope, from this podcast, to elevate your responsibility to the pastor’s sermon as your way of helping deepen his commitment to bring each Sunday the deep experience of meeting the Living God through the exposition of the Word. The post Podcast Ep.116: Your Role in the Pastor’s Preaching (Mitch and Dan) appeared first on Before You Quit.

This past summer, the Christian and Missionary Alliance council voted for the ordination of women to the pastorate. While the Alliance has held to a Complementarian stance throughout its history, this move allowed churches the freedom to ordain women and the freedom for other churches not to ordain women. In summary, the decision is up the local church. Women will not be permitted to serve as elders, nor as lead or solo pastors. This did not come without controversy. There are those that find it challenging to continue to associate with the C&MA due to their biblical and theological convictions. District leadership have taken different approaches to this issue. In most districts, to leave the Alliance has forced congregations to lose their buildings and finances. One district has allowed those churches who leave to keep their property and funds. Many in the Alliance who are burdened with the decision to ordain women, remain in the Alliance and have joined a network called 1:9 ALLIANCE, based on Titus 1:9, “He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it.” The hope of this network is to influence from the inside. You can check out that network here and we do encourage you to join. For the Alliance to arrive at this position, the leadership held a three year national conversation. We believe that conversation should continue. We do this podcast to encourage those pastors who don’t know what to do, or perhaps fear the risks of speaking out. We also want to encourage those who have left and encourage those who stay to love, pray for and support one another. Here in this BYQ podcast, my co-host Dan Stegeman and I interview one such pastor who was deeply impacted by the decision to ordain women. His name is Paul Taylor, and if you happened to watch the open mic time at council, Paul is now famous as that guy with a baseball cap. He even wore that same hat during the interview. We appreciate so much Paul’s candor, honesty and the gentle way he addressed this issue. It was our prayerful desire to conduct the podcast in a gracious spirit, not to attack or oppose, but simply unpack this decision the Alliance has made. About Paul Taylor: Paul has served 25 years as a pastor in Los Angeles California and Missoula Montana. He grew up on the corner of his grandfather’s orange orchard in central California. He and his wife, Kelly, have five children. Paul enjoys time with family and fly fishing in the mornings at sunrise among the beautiful rivers of Montana. Presently he serves as a pastor/elder of Redeemer Bible Church in Missoula MT. “My greatest desire in all of life, is that the gospel of Jesus is declared to all the world for the glory of God!” OTHER RESOURCES:The World And Everything In It Podcast (from World Magazine) featured the Alliance decision in this daily update. Begin at min.13. Check it out here. For Dan Stegeman’s paper on AB Simpson’s view on women pastors, (Is the C&MA Really More Simpsonian?) check here. The post Podcast Ep.115: The Alliance Ordains Women – (A conversation with Pastor Paul Taylor) appeared first on Before You Quit.

The pressures on pastors, particularly for church planters, is not just in ministry, but also in the home. I had the wonderful privilege of interviewing pastor, Bryan Halferty and his wife, Kandice, for this BYQ podcast. Bryan and Kandice live with their family in Tacoma, Washington. Additionally Bryan regularly breaks his body skateboarding, works closely with church planters, and serves as the Lead Pastor of Anchor Church (C&MA). You can find him on both Instagram and Substack at @bryanhalferty. Kandice is a photographer and is completing studies in counseling and spiritual direction. You can check out Bryan’s church here. For the article in reference during this podcast, THE LION AND THE PIT go here. The post Podcast Ep.114: The Church Planters Marriage (Bryan and Kandice Halferty) appeared first on Before You Quit.

Is Church discipline an archaic, now irrelevant practice? I would sense most pastors would say no. It still matters today. In this podcast, with Pastor Hobie Wood, we talk about why church discipline matters, what the Bible says about it, when it should be carried out and why it’s so hard. What do you do when the person living in sin leaves the church before the process of discipline even begins? What about matters that take place outside the home, like marriage problems, domestic violence etc. What role should the church play? Can non-members be disciplined? How much do you communicate to the congregation? Pastor Hobie and I (two sinners longing for grace ourselves) dig deep into these issues and hope it will encourage you to seek for ways the gospel can restore broken relationships by bringing sinners to repentance. Hobie is married to Hannah, and they have 3 children. He is a native of Tiger, Ga., a graduate of Clemson University (B.S.) and Reformed Theological Seminary in Charlotte, NC (MDiv.). Prior to seminary and being called to be the pastor at Christ Presbyterian, Hobie and Hannah were on staff with Campus Crusade for Christ (Cru) at Appalachian State University in Boone, NC. He’s a rabid Clemson fan, a cyclist, and a (very) novice fly-fisherman. “Church discipline is the process of correcting sinful behavior among members of a local church body for the purpose of protecting the church, restoring the sinner to a right walk with God, and renewing fellowship among the church members. In some cases, church discipline can proceed all the way to excommunication, which is the formal removal of an individual from church membership and the informal separation from that individual.” GOT QUESTIONS   The post Podcast Ep.113: Church Discipline (Pastor Hobie Wood) appeared first on Before You Quit.

Al Mohler’s book, He is Not Silent, speaks of how Contemporary preaching suffers from: – a loss of confidence in the power of the word  – an infatuation with technology  – embarrassment before the biblical text  – an emptying of biblical content  – an absence of the gospel My cohost, Dan Stegeman and I want to address these concerns by talking about the pastor and his preaching. Our longing is that pastors get back to solid expository preaching, and that preaching becomes central to the worship experience. Check out Dan’s blogs on the Gospel Coalition’s website here. The post Podcast Ep.112: The Pastor and His Preaching appeared first on Before You Quit.