Before You Quit

COVID revealed a lot about us. The church was tested. Never before have we, the church, been forced to consider its response to mandates and rulings. Churches in some states faced little need to resist, while other states were severely tested. Out of this, many pastors and theologians have needed to establish a better theology on resistance for their allegiance to Jesus. Furthermore, our culture is becoming increasingly counter-church and antagonistic to followers of Jesus. What does the Bible say about how we are to obey the government particularly when it targets our gathering, our evangelism and in some cases insist that we accommodate the worlds’ language on gender-sexuality issues? I didn’t have to look far to find the right guy to talk about this. His name is Pastor Dan Samms. Dan has been a guest on numerous podcasts. Pastor Dan is deeply committed to doctrine who believes if the pastor is going to be passionate about anything, it needs to be about what he believes concerning the truths of God’s Word. Dan’s primary role is equipping the saints to make disciples. He plants house churches and trains shepherds with Restoration House Church Network. He also teaches theology for Liberty University and for Underground Seminary. Dan is in love with his wife, Christy. They have three kids, a few chickens, and an awesome dog named “Sam.” Dan drinks good coffee, enjoys fine woodworking, and writes theology curriculum. Christy is a licensed counselor. She owns Hope Counseling and Consultation Services, LLC and is an incredible mother who has a variety of hobbies . Together, they raise their kids, lead the church, and enjoy God’s blessings and they do all that in Amherst, Oh. The post Podcast Ep.111: The Church and Civil Disobedience (Dan Samms) appeared first on Before You Quit.

Mitch Schultz knows what it is to wonder what to say to someone mourning the loss of a loved one. He also knows what it’s like to say something to a mourner and afterward want to kick yourself. If you’ve had either experience, he gets you. But more than that, he has endured loss and knows firsthand what it’s like to be the one grieving. Out of his experience he provides insight and suggestions that will help you avoid having to ask, Did I say the right thing? This book will help you minister wisely, compassionately, and effectively to those who grieve. In this podcast, co-host Daniel Stegeman discusses his book, Did I Say The Right Thing, and what intentional ministry to those who grieve looks like. Daniel Stegeman (DMin, Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary) serves as pastor of Pine Glen Alliance Church in Lewistown, Pennsylvania. He blogs at pastoral-theology.com and is the author of Help! I Want to Be a Loving Husband. Daniel and his wife, Stephane, have four children. Daniel has also published a number of articles with the Gospel Coalition which you can find here. To order DID I SAY THE RIGHT THING, click here. The post Podcast Ep.110: Did I Say The Right Thing (Responding Well to Grief). appeared first on Before You Quit.

I grew up in Papua, Indonesia and attended a boarding school for most of my early years. My best friend during that time was Steve Richardson. We’ve connected only a few times in fifty years. (Yikes, that makes me sound really old.) Twenty Four years ago, Steve became the president of Pioneers. I asked him recently if he would do a podcast with me on the topic of leadership, particularly in running a mission organization. I am so glad I did. Not only did it give us a chance to catch up on lost years, but also because his insight into servant leadership was amazing. I can’t wait for you to hear what we talked about. So, grab some coffee, and lean your heart in to a great conversation. Steve Richardson has served as president of Pioneers-USA since 1999. Pioneers mobilizes and supports 3,200 missionaries and marketplace professionals who impact 500 unreached people groups in 95 countries. Steve was raised in Indonesia, where his parents planted churches in a jungle tribe. He witnessed the impact of the gospel on their war-like society, a story documented in his father’s missionary classic, Peace Child. Steve and his wife, Arlene, also spent 11 years planting churches among an unreached people group in Southeast Asia. The Richardsons now live in Orlando, Florida and have been blessed with four daughters and 11 grandchildren. Check out Steve’s book, Is The Commission Still Great here. Also check out Steve talking about the book. https://books.pioneers.org/myths/author-steve-richardson The post Podcast Ep.109: Lessons on Leadership (Steve Richardson) appeared first on Before You Quit.

This generation, as have others, is profoundly affected by a secular world view. However more of its impact can also now be felt in the church. How often do we hear of someone we love, a son or daughter, who eventually walks away from their faith, and it all started when someone suggested that Adam might not be a historical figure after all. How do you respond to the seeming contradictions with what the Bible says and what science says? Did Noah’s flood really happen? What about Dinosaurs? The ice age? A conversation about all this goes far beyond slinging ideas and opinions at one another. It has spiritual significance. I am so grateful to have had this conversation over all this and more with teacher and scientist Chuck Bultman. You can check out Chuck’s lectures here. Chuck attended Christian schools all the way through high school and came out believing the Bible was completely correct. Then at a Christian college he accepted the belief that God had used evolution to get everything we see. After graduating from Stanford University with a teaching degree, creation remained an issue for his science-friendly mind and he kept trying to reconcile evolution and the Bible. After attending summer school at U of Colorado, U of Washington, U of Wisconsin, Michigan Tech, and Grand Valley State U, (all of which assumed evolution in their teaching), he heard a presentation by ICR’s John Morris and AIG’s Ken Ham which brought his theistic evolution to extinction. When they pointed out the implications of “no death before Adam” and a truly globe-covering flood, there was no room left for his theistic evolution compromise. His next “thought” journey then became “how to explain all of the geology and biology that he had been taught”- but now within a creation model. Many great family trips out west and to museums have resulted from this on-going quest. Now, after 40 years of teaching high school sciences, he has retired from teaching in the public schools and looks forward to helping others resist the claims of evolutionary science by demonstrating that these claims are scientifically answerable from a biblical worldview. The post Podcast Ep.108: Faith, The Gospel and Creation (Chuck Bultman) appeared first on Before You Quit.

Hundreds of church leaders today are ignorant of the power of the flesh in their lives. In our day the false teaching that people are not sinners by nature has returned to the church in force. This has had a profound impact on believers, blinding them to the flesh still resident within them and weakening them in their battle against the ongoing sin nature. Thus many fall short of the victory God intends His people to have. God intends us to have victory over the flesh—but we must first recognize the enemy lurking within us. May God give leaders of His church the wisdom and tenacity to confront what may be the greatest danger to biblical faith in our day: the flesh within us that is at war against us. On this podcast I talk to Dwight Smith about his book on this subject, Freedom from Bondage to the Flesh: Recognizing and Rejecting the Sin That Keeps us from Victory in Christ.   Meet the Author Dwight P Smith founded Saturation Church Planting International in 1996. He currently works with a growing number of church leaders around the world to mobilize the church for God’s mission: to make the Gospel of Jesus Christ accessible to every man, woman and child in every nation through believers saturating their areas with a living Gospel witness. Dwight’s firm conviction is that if the leadership in the church today will submit themselves back to a biblical theology of leadership we will see the whole body of Christ mobilized into His mission. Check out Dwights webpage here. For more information about Saturation Church International go here. The post Podcast Ep.107: Battling The Flesh (Dwight Smith) appeared first on Before You Quit.

My good friend, Pastor Dan Stegeman had a good idea. “Mitch, I should interview you for my podcast.” I replied, “Great idea.” So we did it and here it is. It was rather emotional to tell my story, but Dan did such a great job with the questions and reflections that by the end we were both thankful not just for this opportunity but for this amazing Savior who has given me the honor to serve him these 61 years. The post Podcast EP 106: My Story (Mitch A Schultz) appeared first on Before You Quit.

If you are parents, I am sure you value the role your parents have in helping raise godly children. If you are grandparents, you know the awesome privilege and responsibility you have with your grandchildren. How often have you heard stories of the godly impact grandparents had in the spiritual development of someone. I had the privilege to sit down with John and Leeba Curlin to talk about their own journey as grandparents, and their wonderful book titled; GRANDPARENTS ON MISSION; Inviting Our Grandchildren to Walk with God. John and Leeba are the parents of seven children, thirty-one grandchildren and four great grandchildren. They love spending their time now investing in their family. Click on book to order. The post Podcast Ep.105: Grandparents on Mission (John and Leeba Curlin) appeared first on Before You Quit.

Increasingly, our international workers are serving in the hardest places. Doing missions is hard. Those we send out face tremendous hardship. While their heart-song is to proclaim the gospel, the restrictions in those cultures makes it very difficult. We also call this, Creative Access countries. It takes tremendous creativity to reach Muslims for Christ. I speak to one such servant who shares his story of serving Jesus in a mid-east country. We also talk about how we need to understand the religion of Islam. My encouragement is that you become intentional and regular in your prayers for the Muslim world. I use an app from VOICE OF THE MARTYRS that offers a different country to pray for each day. You can look over that here. For a previous podcast on working with Muslims go here. The post Podcast EP.104: Taking the Gospel to Muslims appeared first on Before You Quit.

We assume pastors have it all together. After all, they stand behind the pulpit and preach the Word of God. However, did you know some pastors also struggle with their faith? That is Julian Pace’s story. And he wrote a book about it which you can order by clicking the image before. I appreciated so much Julian’s honestly. At one point he expressed that he is a better pastor for struggling with his faith. Julian Pace is a Christian pastor and author. He currently serves as the Pastor of Central Alliance Church in Mt. Airy, Ga. He is also the President of Risen Savior Ministries a non-profit Christian ministry dedicated to evangelism and church renewal. Julian is the author of more than a dozen popular and scholarly articles that have all been featured in a variety of Christian publications. Julian’s writing is fueled by the deeply held conviction that authentic fulfillment is found only in an intimate relationship with Jesus of Nazareth, the Son of God. When Julian is not preaching, teaching, or writing you may find him singing, playing one of his beloved acoustic guitars, or spending time with his family. Julian holds an MA in Biblical Studies from Piedmont International University (now Carolina University) and is currently pursuing a ThD with a focus in Historical Theology from Evangelical Seminary in Myerstown, PA. The post Podcast Ep.103: A Pastor Questions His Faith – Julian Pace appeared first on Before You Quit.

A couple weeks ago I interviewed Amy Spreeman and Michelle Lesley on the complementarianism view of women in ministry. Today I had the privilege of interviewing Pastor Rob Bashioum on the egalitarian view. I encourage you to learn by deep study in the Word and to learn from the view of others that perhaps might differ to yours. Rob and his wife Jess are native east coasters who served in Boston before ministering in the middle east for twelve years.  Rob has led Reach Training Institute, a four year ministry training college in Salem, Oregon and is currently the lead pastor of Salem Alliance Church.  He holds a Masters Degree from Univ of Connecticut (Go Huskies) and a DMin from Alliance Theological Seminary.  He and Jess are parents of four beautiful kids.  The post Podcast Ep.102: The Woman’s Role -(pt.2) Rob Bashioum appeared first on Before You Quit.

** APOLOGIES FOR THE POOR SOUND QUALITY OF THIS PODCAST. I WAS FORCED TO DO THE LAST TWO PODCASTS ONLY USING MY COMPUTER MIC. IT HAS BEEN RESOLVED AND FUTURE PODCASTS WILL BE CLEARER. IN THIS CASE I HAD TO TURN UP THE VULUME TOO MUCH TO COMPENSATE WITH MY VOLUME. What does the Bible say about music in the Church? What role does the pastor play in the selection of songs? Is worship about music, or is the music part of worship? Should churches sing songs produced by movements that have questionable theology? Where do we draw the line when worship leading turns into a performance? All these questions and more are addressed in this wonderful interview with three pastors and myself. Here’s a little about each of the guys: Pastor Dan Samms -Dan’s primary role is equipping the saints to make disciples. He plants house churches and trains shepherds with Restoration House Church Network. He also teaches theology for Liberty University and for Underground Seminary. Dan is in love with his wife, Christy. They have three kids, a few chickens, and an awesome dog named “Sam.” Dan drinks good coffee, enjoys fine woodworking, and writes theology curriculum. Christy is a licensed counselor. She owns Hope Counseling and Consultation Services, LLC and is an incredible mother who has a variety of hobbies . Together, they raise their kids, lead the church, and enjoy God’s blessings. Pastor Eric Anderson – is founding pastor of Lifespring Church, Crosby MN, (www.visitlifespring.com) where he has served for 11 years, previously he served as youth pastors for 7 years in the Evangelical Free Church. He is husband to Miriam, father to 9 children. He also is co-organizer of the Common Slaves Fellowship (www.commonslaves.com), a network of Reformed and Reforming churches and pastors in North East Minnesota. Additionally, he hosts a Zoom meetings podcast called “a Place for Truth”, geared at laymen, which gathers together experienced Reformed pastors and professors to discuss cultural topics. Pastor Ian Bultman – Served for many years as worship pastor at Alliance Bible Church in Mequon, WI. He now serves as director and president of the Brinkman Adventures, an exciting radio show that tells true, modern, missionary stories through the fictional Brinkman family. Each twenty-six minute episode contains a Biblical theme, lesson, and compelling drama that will keep you on the edge of your seat. Using modern sound effects, original music, and superb writing, Brinkman Adventures are ‘Movies for the Ears’. Check out this radio program here. The post Podcast Ep. 101: The Church and Its Music appeared first on Before You Quit.

There are heavy conversations going on today about the role of women in ministry. The two views fall under one of two categories. Either Complementarian or Egalitarian. Here is an adequate definition of each. “Complementarian and egalitarianism are two views used to describe the role of women in the church. Complementarianism is the view that women are limited regarding leadership roles in the church (such as elder/pastor or deacon). Egalitarianism is the view that women can serve in all forms of church leadership, including ordination as pastors.” (Source here) In this podcast, and the one following, I will devote the time to each topic. While I am a Complementarian I try to remain as neutral as I can in both interviews. In this podcast I had the privilege of interviewing Amy Spreeman and Michel Lesley. In a couple weeks I will put out a podcast with C&MA pastor, Rob Bashioum who serves as lead Pastor at Salem Alliance Church. Today we will talk about what does the Bible say regarding the role of women in the church? How much is culture shaping the changing views of the role of women either at home or in the church? And, what pastors perhaps need to consider if they are stuck in the middle of this debate. Here is more information about today’s guests. Amy Spreeman hails from Minnesota, but has spent most of her adult life across the border in Wisconsin. She and her husband have two grown kids and are empty-nesters, except for the dogs and chickens. Amy enjoys reading and designing websites in her spare time, and loves to listen to Christian audiobooks and podcasts. Growing up, she was fascinated with the cult craze of the 70s, and started researching movements within the visible church after learning first hand how devastating those aberrant gospels (small g) can be. In 2010 she helped launch a discernment radio program called Stand Up for the Truth, and spent 5 years having her mind blown by the level of apostasy in churches around the world. When she speaks at conferences and women’s groups, she points them to the hope of Jesus Christ. She is the founder of Berean Research and Naomi’s Table Bible Studies for Women. You can also check out her archives from earlier work at aspreeman.com. Michelle Lesley hails from Baton Rouge, Louisiana, (Geaux Tigers!) where she and her husband are the proud parents of five sons and one daughter ranging in age from their teens to their thirties. Michelle loves to read, cook, and stay active in women’s ministry and other activities at church. God has blessed her with ministry opportunities outside the church as well, from authoring a women’s Bible study to writing Sunday School material for a major Christian publisher to speaking all over the country at women’s conferences, on podcasts, and at other events. Currently, Michelle’s ministry focus is discipling Christian women through her writing. Find out more about Michelle and her ministry at her blog: Michelle Lesley- Discipleship for Christian Women. Both Michelle and Amy host a podcast called, called A Word Fitly Spoken. Check it out here.   The post Podcast Ep.100: The Woman’s Role (Amy Spreeman and Michelle Lesley) appeared first on Before You Quit.

What is the state of Global Missions? Ironically, in my view, globalization has affected our burden for the lost in our world. Or, maybe it’s just me. I remember early in my days of ministry training, you had to work hard to see what was happening in far reaches of the world. We did a ton of reading. Speakers would share powerful stories and implore us to pray and go. Today, with a push of a button we can pretty much connect anywhere in the globe. I’d like, in this podcast, to remind us of the urgency. To remind us that there are still billions of people who have little opportunity to hear of Jesus. To remind us to pray, to support and even go. This conversation with Tim Crouch was helpful to me in having a refreshed burden for missions. I hope it will do the same for you. Tim Crouch took on the role of vice president for Alliance Missions of The Christian & Missionary Alliance on February 1, 2014. Tim’s role, along with regional and ministry location leaders, is to provide leadership to over 700 U.S. Alliance IWs (with aXcess, marketplace ministries, CAMA, and Envision). Tim’s heart is to see Alliance Missions help make gospel access available for peoples of the world that lack it, and to flow from peoples who’ve gained it to others who still wait. Prior to becoming the vice president for Alliance Missions, Tim and his wife, Shelly, served as Alliance international workers (IWs) in Russia from 1995-2010, with seven of those years Tim being the field director for the Alliance there. In 2010 Tim and Shelly were appointed the regional leadership couple for the N&C Asia region where they supervised 75 IWs serving in six countries and worked with national church leaders in each of those nations. Tim and Shelly reside in Columbus, OH. They have four grown children—Anna, Joshua, David, and Michael. The post Podcast Ep.99: The State of Global Mission (Tim Crouch) appeared first on Before You Quit.

Stories grip me. Stories that depict the wonderful work of Jesus in the lives of people grip me more. I have known Glenn Wanless for over twenty years. We met and served together in England. He tells the story of how Jesus met him, called him and continues to do his wonderful work through him. What you will hear today is more evidence that our wonderful Savior has a wonderful and specific touch in how he brings us to himself. Rev Glenn and Vivienne Wanless, have been serving the Lord in ministry for over 27 years. Glenn has been ordained with the Christian & Missionary Alliance for over 25 years, both he and Vivienne have been used by God to mobilize and unify the body of Christ into Kingdom action. They lived most of their lives in England becoming Christians in their early 20’s. Glenn earned his degree at an Interdenominational and International seminary while living in Scotland. The focus of their ministry has been church planting, replanting and bringing renewal to Christians and churches. As well as serving in the UK, they have these past 19 years served in the USA in Montana, Ohio and Florida. They have been married for 34 years and have two children, David and Rachel and 5 grandchildren Benjamin, James, William, Everly and Jovie. They believe that God has called them to bring the whole gospel to the whole world. The post Podcast Ep.98: The Story of Glenn Wanless appeared first on Before You Quit.

As you know if you have been listening to these podcasts for very long, I love the church. Even though the church has a lot of flaws, and has a long way to go to be what Jesus wants her to be, I still love the church. I love the church not only because Jesus loves the church, after all she is his bride, but I actually love the church because it is meaningful to me. I love the worship, the hearing of the Word, the sacraments, witnessing baptisms, and seeing how it is the church more than any other organization that serves others, the community and the world. I also love the church because we are promised in Ephesians 5:27 that one day Jesus will present her to himself in splendor, without spots or wrinkle that she might be without blemish. While the church is imperfect, God is doing a perfect work through her, through us. That is why I love the church. Now this begs the question. How are we doing? How is the church doing in being this body of Jesus to a dying and lost world. How is the church doing in being a place of worship and place for discipleship? Well, I talked about all that with someone who not only loves the church himself, but knows a lot about it. His name is Terry Smith and Terry serves as Vice President for Church Ministries with the Christian and Missionary Alliance. So grab your coffee, put on your fluffy bunny slippers and lets join Terry in this wonderful conversation about the state of the Church in America. Rev. Terry Smith was appointed as vice president for Church Ministries with The Christian and Missionary Alliance and began serving in this role on December 1, 2017. Terry has served with the C&MA since 1981. He pastored Alliance churches in Florida and in Pennsylvania as well as serving in the role of church-planting director in three districts, He was elected superintendent of the Eastern PA district in August 2014. Terry also served on the C&MA Board of Directors prior to being appointed as vice president for Church Ministries in December 2017. A graduate of Toccoa Falls College, Terry also holds a master’s degree from Crown College. He is the author of Changing Course: Leading Older Churches in a New Direction. Terry has been married to Ruth since 1977. They have two married, adult sons and five grandchildren. Order Terry’s book by clicking on the book cover The post Podcast Ep.97: The State of the Church (Terry Smith) appeared first on Before You Quit.

Have you ever wondered how this generation is doing in defending their faith? I remember back in my early years in ministry doing a number of training programs such as Evangelism Explosion which provided me wonderful tools for sharing the gospel to others. Yet, in forty years so much has changed. We have changed, the church has changed, college institutions have changed and most notable the world around us has changed. It’s not as easy, and dare I say common now to share our faith particularly in a world that more than ever resists that gospel message. How does this generation address moral issues like homosexuality, the redefining of marriage, or the historicity of Adam, or evolution? How is this generation doing in giving clear, solid responses to those hard parts of the Bible like genocide and slavery? Well thankfully someone has put a lot of thought and work into this and placed those thoughts into a wonderful book called The Young Christians Survival Guide: (Defending your faith and common questions young Christians are asked about the God, the Bible and Christian Faith Answered.) I had the privilege to sit down with that author about his book. His name is Don Williams who is is Professor Emeritus of Toccoa Falls College. A border dweller, he stays permanently camped out on the borders between serious scholarship and pastoral ministry, theology and literature, Narnia and Middle-Earth. An ordained minister in The Evangelical Free Church of America, he has spent many years in pastoral ministry and many summers training local pastors in Uganda, Kenya, and India for Church Planting International. He is the author of thirteen books, including Ninety-Five Theses for a New Reformation: A Road Map for Post-Evangelical Christianity and more. Click on book for order information   The post Podcast Ep. 96: This Generation-Defending The Faith (Don Williams) appeared first on Before You Quit.

In this podcast, Dr. Richard Kronk and I discuss his book, Not Called. Do you remember being called into ministry? How do you look back at that now? I’ll be honest, when I sat down to be interviewed for licensing I felt I had to come up with a dramatic, mystical experience, a supernatural finger pointing directive from Jesus himself to validate my call to ministry. As I got older, life and ministry did not go the way I had hoped. Did I mis-read the call of God on my life? I committed myself to life-long service as a missionary, but that lasted only six years. A friend of mine shared his guilt with me of having gone forward in a meeting to serve God in full-time ministry only to find himself serving in secular work? Was God angry with my friend for going back on his vow to serve Jesus? Or, can we rethink and reframe the whole notion of calling into ministry? I think we can, and that is what Dr. Kronk and I discuss together in this BYQ episode. You will be challenged, and I think, encouraged.   Rick Kronk serves as an associate professor of Intercultural Studies at Toccoa falls College in Toccoa Falls, GA. Before joining the faculty at Toccoa seven years ago, Rick and his wife spent 16 years in ministry among Muslims in France. Rick’s ministry experience among Muslims has fueled his on-going research and publication efforts which include the role of dreams and visions in conversion, the dynamics of conversion and church affiliation and his latest book which deals with the historical, biblical and missional understanding of divine calling. Rick and his wife have two married children. When Rick is not teaching, researching or writing you can find him out on some nearby lake with a fishing rod in his hands.   Click on book to order! The post Podcast Ep.95: Not Called (Dr. Rick Kronk) appeared first on Before You Quit.

Why do pastors quit? Perhaps a positive way to frame this is, what keeps pastors from quitting? The pressures to quit is great. Pastors probably face more pressures than people do in other occupations. The reasons are many and the reasons, and motivations, to not quit are also great. I had the opportunity to speak to two pastors who’ve known what it is like to want to quit but discovered the joy of pressing through when that temptation was strongest. Pastor Steve Kerhoulas Rev. Steve Kerhoulas (MA in Pastoral Counseling)In 1970 the Holy Spirit drew Steve to the cross, and he became a Christian. After finishing college at Western Carolina University he was accepted into a one year program through New York Theological Seminary. That year was a turning point in his life. Upon its completion he began a journey that would lead him to be a group home parent with Youth For Christ, then off to Asbury Theological Seminary, and then to five churches as the senior pastor. He is married to Candi and has four grown children. Steve and Candi live in Sky Valley GA. Steve is also an active member of IMP. Check out their website here. Pastor DANIEL STEGEMAN Daniel Stegeman, (DMin)Daniel is pastor of Pine Glen Alliance Church in Lewistown, Pennsylvania. Daniel and his wife Stephane are the proud parents of four children and you can find his blog at www.pastoral-theology.com. Check out Daniel’s blog on the subject here: A key to ministry longevity that most pastors miss One of the most influential recent books on pastoral ministry is Dangerous Calling by Paul Tripp. Published back in 2012, I have read it multiple times and been impacted by Tripp’s plea for pastoral faithfulness in the midst of a uniquely challenging vocation. Some time ago, I picked up my copy and something caught my attention on the back. The book was endorsed by five well-known Christian leaders, and of those five, three have since left the ministry. I won’t mention any names, but I will say that two were disqualified from ministry, and one has renounced Christianity altogether. The sad irony is that it only bolsters Tripp’s contention that pastoral ministry is indeed a dangerous calling. Just to clarify, if you have a copy of the book, more than likely your copy isn’t endorsed by these three fallen leaders. I have one of the first editions of the book and Crossway (the Publisher), has updated it for obvious reasons so as not to include them. In his classic work, Lectures to My Students, Charles Spurgeon writes,“Do not enter the ministry if you can help it,” …..If any student in this room could be content to be a newspaper editor, or a grocer, or a farmer, or a doctor, or a lawyer, or a senator, or a king, in the name of heaven and earth let him go his way; he is not the man in whom dwells the Spirit of God in its fulness, for a man so filled with God would utterly weary of any pursuit by that for which his inmost soul pants. (26-27) While perhaps Spurgeon goes too far (DeYoung article TGC 2010) in stating this, few would miss the wisdom of his words. Ministry is not just one out of a smorgasbord of job options to choose from. If a man is not truly called of the Lord and He doesn’t feel utterly compelled to shepherd the flock of God (1 Peter 5:1-4), then it is sound advice to find another calling. I have only been a pastor for about 14 years, but I can think of several friends and acquaintances who have left the ministry during that time. Some should not have entered ministry in the first place, but not everyone who leaves the ministry is a failure. For one of those friends, stepping aside from pastoral ministry was the last thing he wanted to do. Even though God opened the door for him to take a government job with a much higher salary, he wrestled mightily with this transition. Ministry is hard! Perhaps you have come through a particularly difficult season of ministry, and you are asking, “will I last in ministry?” If you are, you are certainly not alone. I recently read David Murray’s book “Reset” and found it to be filled with much practical wisdom, particularly when it comes to taking care of your physical and emotional health. I would heartily commend it, but one of the things I wish Murray had emphasized more was that of personal holiness. When a pastor is not actively pursuing sanctification and godliness in his own life, it greatly hinders his ability to shepherd God’s flock. When a pastor fails to keep watch over his soul, it matters little how well he cares for his own physical health. Paul instructed Timothy to “Keep a close watch on yourself and on the teaching. Persist in this, for by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers” (1 Timothy 4:16). Later on, in that same letter, after exhorting Timothy on the dangers of the love of money, he writes, “But as for you, O man of God, flee these things. Pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, steadfastness, gentleness. Fight the good fight of the faith” (1 Timothy 6:11-12)

You’re in college and life is good. You get a phone from your brother that turns your world upside down. You father murdered his wife, your mom. What do you do? How do you process this? Where do you turn? All this happened to Peter Yang only a few years ago. Now an unwelcome participant on the new path of tragedy, Peter fought to keep his perspective and clung hard to his faith. Jesus came though and Peter is now eager to see him to use this hard story to encourage others in their hard stories. Peter is a graduate from Toccoa Falls College located in northeast Georgia, with a Bachelors of Science Degree in Counseling Psychology. He resides in Charlotte, North Carolina with his beautiful wife of 11 years along with their 4 sons. His memoir, “Do Not Waste It: A True Story of Tragedy and Transformation” is set to release December 2022. He is the host of the Do Not Waste It Podcast. Listen at donotwasteit.com/podcast. He is on staff as the worship leader of Hope Baptist Church in Stallings, North Carolina. The post Podcast Ep.93: When Tragedy Hits Home (Peter Yang) appeared first on Before You Quit.

Noelle Moore lost her father, her only child and her marriage in a matter of months. Each of these trials alone can bring even the strongest believer to a place of despair. In this podcast Noelle speaks about the heartache of losing her daughter, Finley, and how God brought about healing and ministry through the Finley Project. Her book, More Than I’m Sorry, is a great resource on how to understand and reach out to those who have lost children. About Noelle Moore – Where are you from? I am from Winter Park and was born at the Winter Park Hospital. Where do you currently live? Maitland, Florida Current or Past Occupation? Founder & Executive Director of The Finley Project, CEO of Know Moore Consulting Do you have Children? An Angel in heaven, named Finley Elizabeth Oblander Hardest thing you’ve ever done? Removing life support from my only daughter What other organizations are you involved in? I graduated from The Rollins College Philanthropy Center with a Certificate in Non-Profit Management and enjoy taking courses at the Philanthropy Center on an ongoing basis. I love the Lord, my family and our Central Florida community. I am a Board Member of the Winter Park YMCA and Florida Hospital, a Founding Member of the Pregnancy and Infant Loss Resource Network, a Grief Share Facilitator, a Member of the CEO Counsel, Association for Fundraising Professionals and Healthy Start’s Infant Mortality Task Force as well as an active member of the Winter Park Chamber and the Lake Mary Rotary. Order Noelle’s book here For information about the Finley Project, check here For more about Noelle, go here The post Podcast Ep.92: Losing a Child (Noelle Moore and the Finley Project) appeared first on Before You Quit.

Legacy matters. Godly legacy matters more. I had a wonderful opportunity recently to sit down and have a great conversation with my nearly 92 year old father, John Schultz. I mainly wanted to leave something for our family. My mom and dad currently have sixteen grandchildren and thirty great-grandchildren. I hope one day they will each listen to this podcast to appreciate the godly legacy both my parents have left their family. You will enjoy the stories he tells all giving clear evidence of our Lord and Savior weaving his purposes through ordinary people. Since their retirement my parents, John and Jannine Schultz reside in Toccoa, GA. Prior to this they served for 38 years as missionaries in Papua, Indonesia. They have 16 Grandchildren, and 30 Great grandchildren. They love to read, study and spend time with family. Enjoy! My father has written a commentary on every book of the Bible. Check it out here. For previous podcast interview with both my parents select here (Select book for order details) The post Podcast Ep.91: Conversation With My Dad (John Schultz) appeared first on Before You Quit.

I reflect often on how the church is as healthy as it’s families. And a healthy family is where there is a man, a husband and father who loves Jesus, and the gospel is the basis of his commitment to marriage. (I also know many single moms who experience health as they rely on Jesus and the community of believers.) I am excited today to talk to Pastor Dan Stegeman on a booklet he wrote titled, I Want To Be A Loving Husband. We had a great conversation today on the booklet but also on the great example Jesus gave us in his love for the church. Daniel Stegeman, DMin, is pastor of Pine Glen Alliance Church in Lewistown, Pennsylvania. Daniel and his wife Stephane are the proud parents of four children and you can find his blog at www.pastoral-theology.com. Order the book here   The post Podcast Ep.90: Being A Loving Husband (Dan Stegeman) appeared first on Before You Quit.

In this third podcast with Prof. Rich Griffith, I talk about Gen Z and sexuality. Gender issues continue to push at the door of the Christian community, institutions and the Church. The Gospel is our defense, but also our banner of hope. Developing a deeper awareness of what is happening to culture around us, encourages us to get our heads out of the sand, and while armed with the gospel we provide guidance and hope to a generation that is steeped in the lostness of culture. Professor Rich Griffiths and I discuss all this and more. Rich serves as professor of Youth Ministry at Toccoa Falls College. Rich Griffith is the single dad of three (adopted) sons, Aaron (22) and Dylan (19) and Jamie (13). After some time in the U. S. Army, he has spent 29 years in Youth Ministry exclusively while working in a variety of Church and Para-Church settings including Young Life (helping to pioneer Young Life’s ministry to early adolescents called “Wyld Life”), Ministry Architects and Military Community Youth Ministries. He has been a Lead Pastor for the past 4.5 while also still serving in a variety of Youth Ministry capacities. Obviously, he is passionate about youth, families and The Church. He is a published Author and Contributor to “The Teen Devotional Bible” as well as other Youth and Ministry related publications. Aaron, 22; Dylan, 19 and Jamie, 13. The post Podcast Ep.89: GEN Z and Sexuality (Prof. Rich Griffith) appeared first on Before You Quit.

Today I interview Marci Renée who “accidentally” found herself working at a safe house in Spain. We discuss her work, her book and the tragedy of human trafficking. By listening to this podcast, you will never be the same. Marci Renée is a global nomad, who has traveled to more than 30 countries and has lived extensively in the United States, France, Morocco, and Spain with her French husband and four boys. She loves to travel, speak foreign languages, experience different cultures, eat ethnic foods, meet people from faraway lands, and of course, write and tell stories. She currently lives in Spain and works in government-run safe houses with women and children who are rescued victims of human trafficking. You can find her on her website, “The Cultural Story-Weaver,” at www.culturalstoryweaver.com. Click on the cover to order this book. Click on the book to order this book The post Podcast Ep. 88: RESCUING THE TRAFFICKED (Marci Renée) appeared first on Before You Quit.

I had the privilege of being a guest on another podcast. I include this podcast here where Pastor Dan Samms interviews me on my experience of following a pastor who experienced moral failure. This is the description of that conversation on Dan’s website: Years ago Mitch Schultz was asked to step in to pastor a church after the previous pastor had a moral failure. Little did he know that in addition to the hurt and fallout from the last pastor’s affair, there were several significant problems in the church that were not disclosed. He went through tremendous hurt, but gained valuable insight on how churches should apply discipline and how churches can be built up after devastation. Please check out the accompanying blog I wrote which tells more of that story here. Check out Thom Rainers related podcast and blog here. Check out my novel which tells a similar story, THE WHISPER here.     The post Podcast Ep. 87: MORAL FAILURES & CHURCH RECOVERY (Mitch A Schultz) appeared first on Before You Quit.

In today’s podcast we are going to look at the challenges and opportunities that happen when someone in ministry enters what many refer to as the second half season of life. Many pastors, missionaries and ministry leaders find themselves in a unique place particularly when they have a couple decades under their belt. Different questions are asked than were being asked at the starting blocks of youthful ambition and dare I say, passionate idealism. What brings about these new questions can be a sense of failure. Family hardships. Children now adults and less dependent on parents. I have the privilege of talking about all this with Jamey Lewis who knows well the multi layered challenges that come in the second season of life and ministry. Jamey and his wife, Cindy served in Indonesia, where he grew up as an MK, for 27 years. They have three children and currently live in Southern California where Jamey serves as a certified life coach. More about Jamey in his own words: I was born in Indonesia, the youngest of five children. I grew up in Bali and went to boarding schools in Indonesia and Malaysia. Body surfing in Bali, playing Scrabble with Mom and Dad, eating in food stalls on the beach, enjoying crazy fun adventures with fellow TCKs — my reservoir of memories is filled with stories of laughter, friendships and an active and culturally engaged life. But I struggled too, wanting to know where I belonged and where “home” was. Later, after college and graduate school, I returned to Indonesia with a family of my own to pursue my calling to love God and love others in the place that I knew best: Indonesia. In time, I learned more and more to find belonging by learning to receive love, goodness and joy.Especially if you are an adult TCK or a professional crossing cultures — in a life transition, seeking clarity in an uncertain world, or wanting a more impactful life — I invite you to contact me! Check out couragelifecoaching.com and set up a conversation. Let’s talk! I am a certified ACC coach with the International Coaching Federation. I coach adult TCKs and professionals who have crossed cultures. And I am a lifelong learner. I have an M.A. and a doctorate in Intercultural Studies. I’ve learned two other languages and helped to lead others from over 15 different passport countries. I’ve been certified with the Cultural Intelligence Center to help others assess and improve their intercultural intelligence. I’ve also been trained to design and lead participatory learning events. Now I live in Southern California and am rooted in supportive and caring relationships with family and friends. My wife is a mentor of women who cross cultures and is certified to give grief support. We’ve been married for 37 years and have 3 adult children in California and the Netherlands. Check out the Second Half Collaborate here The post Podcast Ep.86: Adapting to the 2nd-Half of Ministry-Life (Jamey Lewis) appeared first on Before You Quit.

Parents are often ill-equipped for the challenges that come when their children become adults. Increasingly I have conversations with friends who’s adult children are either struggling with their faith and/or struggling in their relationship with the parents. This can be deeply disenchanting for parents particularly when they feel they did everything “by the book” in raising their son or daughter. Not long ago I picked up a book by Margie Tripp called, It’s Not Too Late: Restoring Broken Relationships with Teenage and Adult Children. This book significantly helped me understand what parents need to know and do when their adult children walk away from the Lord and where there is severed relationship. Dr. Tedd and Mrs. Margy Tripp are in their 53rd year of marriage and ministry. Their ministry experience together includes; resident directors for college dormitory, open home ministry to young adults, founding and administrating a Christian school, youth ministry, pastoral ministry at Grace Fellowship Church, where Tedd served as Senior Pastor for thirty-two years, and Margy served in children’s ministry, women’s ministry, women’s Bible teacher and music ministry. Tedd is the author of “Shepherding A Child’s Heart”. Together, Tedd and Margy authored “Instructing A Child’s Heart”. Tedd and Margy continue to speak in conferences and seminars in the US and around the world. Most recently, they have begun both virtual and live-streaming ministry and podcasts on a variety of Christian life topics. Tedd and Margy have three adult children, who are married to spouses they regard as their own children, and nine grandchildren. They enjoy spending time with their family. Check out the Tripps Shepherding The Heart website here Click on book cover to order book The post Podcast Ep.85: Disarming Rebellion With Adult Children (Tedd and Margy Tripp) appeared first on Before You Quit.

I Want to talk on this episode on how a church transitions well. I remember sitting down with a friend processing a tough church and he made a comment I could never shrug. “Mitch you need to start your transition now. It might need to take you several years, but start your transition”. Unfortunately certain events kept me from having control in that process, but later I realized this significance of that advice. I am thrilled today to discuss with a pastor the importance of pastoring the baton between pastors in a way that is healthy and timely. I actually did this interview just a week before COVID significantly shut churches down so I decided I would hold on to it until the waves subsided. I believe the timing is right for me to put this out now. I am talking to Pastor Brain Dainsberg who knows first hand the wonderful benefits of a church transitioning from one pastor to another. This also happens to be church I served as associate pastor for a number of years, so I am intimately familiar with the healthy contexts of this church. Brian Dainsberg began as the Lead Pastor of Alliance Bible Church on August 1, 2016. He grew up in the Green Bay area, earning his B.A. in Applied Music from UW-Green Bay in 2002. He later received his Master of Divinity from Trinity Evangelical Divinity School in 2007. In 2008, he was ordained by the Christian and Missionary Alliance in Appleton, WI. Brian and his wife, Jedotta, have two children: Braylen and Taelyr. In addition to spending time with his family, Pastor Brian likes to golf, look for new Thai and Chinese restaurants and read books. The post Podcast Ep. 84: Passing the Baton (Pastor Brian Dainsberg) appeared first on Before You Quit.

Often in summer I put out fewer podcasts, but I have also had a number of personal challenges that have led me to focus more on family than my other responsibilities. It’s actually fitting I am doing this podcast on the subject of Scripture and prayer as this has been a sustaining discipline for me this past several months. In fact a tool that I have used directly connects me to this podcast and the person I will be interacting with. Years ago I started using Dr. Kenneth Boa’s books that focus on the use of scriptures for prayer and again I picked up some of those books and I like I said, they gave me courage, perspective and hope during another hard season of my life. How excited I was then, when through a mutual friend, I was able to connect with Dr. Boa and arrange this interview. Here’s a brief bio about him: Dr. Boa is the President of Reflections Ministries, an organization that seeks to encourage, teach, and equip people to know Christ, follow Him, become progressively conformed to His image, and reproduce His life in others. He is also President of Trinity House Publishers, a publishing company that is dedicated to the creation of tools that will help people manifest eternal values in a temporal arena by drawing them to intimacy with God and a better understanding of the culture in which they live. Order the HANDBOOK TO PRAYER by clicking on book cover below. The post Podcast Ep.83: The Scripture and Prayer (Dr. Ken Boa) appeared first on Before You Quit.

One of my hero’s of the faith, and go to guy, is Charles Spurgeon, the famous pastor from London in the mid 1800’s. I even have a first edition of his devotional book, Morning By Morning. We have so much to learn from past spiritual leaders. I am not sure we really appreciate how their legacy on the church today. So, with in mind this podcast is going to be different. We are going to talk about another great past leader who perhaps has had more impact on the church today than anyone else in history, other than our Lord and Savior Jesus. His name is Jonathan Edwards, the famous pastor and theologian from the early 1700’s. Yes, that Jonathan Edwards who preached that famous sermon, Sinners In the Hands of an Angry God. I think it’s important for us to understand the impact men like Edwards had on our a nation, and also the kind of pastor he was, and the lessons we can learn from him. I have the honor to interview a young man and pastor who has done extensive research on Jonathan Edwards, the Pastor. His name is Daniel Stegeman. Daniel Stegeman, DMin, is pastor of Pine Glen Alliance Church in Lewistown, Pennsylvania. Daniel and his wife Stephane are the proud parents of four children and you can find his blog at www.pastoral-theology.com. The post Podcast Ep.82: Jonathan Edwards, The Pastor (Pastor Dan Stegeman) appeared first on Before You Quit.

I have the privilege today to interview Sam Thompson, a pastor who happens to also be blind. Before I go to that interview I want to draw your attention to something Sam and I talk about in the closing of our interview. I thought it would be wise to emphasis it again here in the beginning. Many of us in the church are not aware of our unconscious mannerisms toward people who are blind or who have any kind of disability for that matter. You will notice that when you meet someone in a wheel chair, for example. It is common for us to talk more to the person pushing the wheel chair than the person in the wheel chair. We have that same tendency when speaking to someone who suffers with blindness. We might speak to loudly to them, even though their hearing is just fine, or again we might speak more to the person who is walking with them. I mention these so we can be better as a church community in loving and involving those who could find themselves most lonely because they carry some disability. I loved my conversation with Sam and learned so much from him. Rev. Sam Thompson was born into a large family in Indiana. Born blind, he attended the Indiana School for the Blind, graduating from West Nassau High School, Callahan, Florida after his family moved in 1972. After giving his life to Christ in 1974, he began attending Toccoa Falls College, Toccoa, GA in 1977. Sam met his wife and ministry partner, Ann, at TFC, and they graduated together in 1981. He later received a Master of Arts in General Theological Studies from Columbia Biblical Seminary. While at TFC, Sam, Ann and a handful of other students, founded a ministry to people with disabilities. Sam served as Executive Director for 40 years before retiring in 2019. Sam also served as a pastor and associate pastor after receiving his ordination from The Christian and Missionary Alliance in 1983. He has a shepherd’s heart and a true passion for people with disabilities. Click on cover to order Sam’s book   The post Podcast Ep. 81: Pastor and Blind (The Story of Sam Thompson) appeared first on Before You Quit.

It’s not often I have had the opportunity to talk so openly with someone suffering a terminal illness. I think we would all agree that the church and even our culture is ill prepared to have hard and honest conversations about death and dying. In this podcast my goal is to help the church, help you, the believer who loves Jesus and loves the church, to grow in your ministry capacity to help those grieving loss, and even help you if you are facing terminal illness. I am so thankful to pastor Scott Borderud for his willingness to have this kind of conversation with me. You will find it to be an honest, sometimes somber conversation but one I found deeply encouraging. Scott served as a military chaplain and pastor for over 30 years. Scott is married to Carol. They have three children. Joshua, Christy and Katherine and are blessed with five grand children. The post Podcast Ep. 80: Living With Terminal Illness -Scott Borderud appeared first on Before You Quit.

I have to admit, as I get older I stand back curious and some times burdened as I watch the up and coming generation navigate perhaps some of the same challenges we grew up with, but perhaps with different world views. I have also observed with keen interest, and equal concern how progressive Christianity is shaping the world view of many in what we refer to as Gen Z. Things are not as black and white as they perhaps were for us. Moral issues are viewed and approached with more nuances than it might have been for us. Things like abortion, same sex attraction and social justice and even the gospel message are more complicated conversations with less clear conviction. All this will certainly shape our future and the future of the church. I had the privilege for a second time to sit down with Professor Rich Griffith to specifically discuss all this with him. Rich serves as professor of Youth Ministry at Toccoa Falls College. Rich Griffith is the single dad of two (adopted) sons, Aaron (19) and Dylan (16). After some time in the U. S. Army, he has spent 29 years in Youth Ministry exclusively while working in a variety of Church and Para-Church settings including Young Life (helping to pioneer Young Life’s ministry to early adolescents called “Wyld Life”), Ministry Architects and Military Community Youth Ministries. He has been a Lead Pastor for the past 4.5 while also still serving in a variety of Youth Ministry capacities. Obviously, he is passionate about youth, families and The Church. He is a published Author and Contributor to “The Teen Devotional Bible” as well as other Youth and Ministry related publications.   The post Podcast Ep. 79: GEN Z and the Gospel (Dr. Rich Griffith) appeared first on Before You Quit.

For some time I have been wanting to talk about the pastor and his money. One of the stresses in ministry is the pastor’s need for security which can add to the tensions in his life. A low paying ministry. Debt. Moves. Unexpected change. THis is an important topic because it is also a kingdom topic. How we handle money, our attitude toward money, how we even handle some of the trials that come with money says something about our commitment to the gospel which by now you know is a heart and center subject to me. I am pleased this morning to have an expert talk to us about this but he is also a man who loves the Lord Jesus deeply. His name is Russ Crosson. Russ Crosson is Executive Vice President and Chief Mission Officer of Ronald Blue Trust. Russ serves as chief advocate for the heart and soul of the organization and works to ensure the mission of the company is carried out with integrity in every area of the organization with a focus on making sure the company’s mission is passed down and inculcated into future generations. Prior to his current position, Russ served as President & CEO of Ronald Blue & Co. from 2002 to 2017. He was hired by Ron Blue in 1980 as the second employee of Ronald Blue & Co. He has worked extensively in all areas of financial planning – specializing in comprehensive financial, estate and philanthropic planning, as well as generational family wealth management and transfer. Russ is the author of several books including Your Life…Well Spent, The Truth About Money Lies, What Makes a Leader Great, and Your Money Made Simple. He has also been a featured speaker in many venues including Promise Keepers, Issachar Summit, and America’s Best Hope. The post Podcast Ep: 78 The Pastor and His Money (Russ Crosson) appeared first on Before You Quit.

Today I have the privilege of interviewing Jim Newheiser on the topic of Pastors, Parents and Prodigals. I’ve been wanting to do this podcast for some time but wasn’t sure how to approach it. Increasingly, with my ministry, and even out of my personal friendships, I am becoming burdened for parents navigating the reality that their children, now adults, are either not following the Lord or seriously question their faith. This can be very disorienting especially for parents who feel they did the best they could in pointing their son or daughter toward Jesus and the gospel. What do you do with this? How do you find comfort? Where do you get perspective? These and more are the questions I sat down to talk to Jim Newsheimer about.   Jim is the Director of the Christian Counseling program and Associate Professor of Pastoral Theology at Reformed Theological Seminary in Charlotte, NC. He served in pastoral ministry for over thirty years in Southern California and Saudi Arabia. He has served as the director of The Institute for Biblical Counseling and Discipleship (IBCD) since 2006. He is a Fellow and a board member of the Association of Certified Biblical Counselors (ACBC). Jim has been practicing biblical counseling since 1982. Read blog here Order Jim’s book here The post Podcast Ep.77: Pastors, Parents and Prodigals (Dr. Jim Newheiser) appeared first on Before You Quit.

Since last podcast we need something lighter. Let me give some context. I grew up in Papua, Indonesia and have the fondest memories of traveling from one village of town to another thanks to a mission organization called Mission Aviation Fellowship. Like many missionary kids I longed to one day become a pilot, and while this podcast is not at all about that, I did fulfill that dream. Twenty years ago I became a licensed pilot. But here is what I want to talk about today. I want to talk about the legacy of MAF and I am going to do that with some help. Today’s podcast will be light hearted but still deeply spiritually and encouraging. Today’s guest is David Fyock who serves in the UK with MAF International. Dave and Hilda Fyock are missionaries with Mission Aviation Fellowship. Dave and Hilda have enjoyed over 25 years with MAF serving in Albania, Costa Rica and the US home office in Idaho. They currently serve in the UK with MAF International, a sister organization. Their two sons have remained in the US. Sean works for a tech company and Micah attends university. Dave states, “MAF is about seeing isolated people physically and spiritually transformed in Christ’s name. Acts 17:26 indicates that God has set a time and determined the borders for every nation or people group so that they will come to seek His face. I am privileged to serve with an organization that focuses on the least accessible areas of the world.” In September 2017 Dave was installed as the CEO for MAF International. His 12 years serving in various vice president roles in the US have given him a great foundation upon which to build as he leads this team of committed men and women. God had been preparing Dave and Hilda from childhood for this ministry. Both became Christians when they were five years old and came from strong Christian homes. Dave was born in Pennsylvania, and lived in Venezuela with his missionary parents during his teen years. It was there that he felt called to the ministry. Dave received a B.S. degree in aviation technology from LeTourneau University in Texas. He is a licensed airframe and power plant mechanic as well as a commercial pilot.   The post Podcast Ep:76 The Legacy of MAF (Dave Fyock) appeared first on Before You Quit.

Like many of you I have been reeling from the stories that have come out in the last years of great Christian leaders, mostly men, who have fallen hard. How do we respond to these events? What is it doing for the church or to the church? Why does this even happen to people we look up to and admire and then find they have a completely double life. Why should this be good for our own faith where it forces us to look inwardly at our own tendencies and sins. How can this also be good for the gospel. Not long ago I ran into a blog online written by pastor Nick Stumbo entitled Ravi Zacharias and Sexual Misconduct Among Christian Leaders. I decided to reach out to pastor Stumbo to discuss this particular case but also more generally the question of what we can learn from it. As a third-generation pastor, Nick Stumbo started his ministry career at the East Hills Alliance Church in Kelso, Washington. Serving as their lead pastor for more than a decade, Nick observed the fallout of sexual brokenness and devastation in the lives of men and women in the church and recognized, like never before, the need for a culture of grace in the Church.Confronted with his own addiction to pornography, Nick and his wife, Michelle, found hope and healing through the counseling and group ministries of Pure Desire. It radically changed their lives! His public disclosure to his church body lead to a revival of forgiveness and healing, launching Pure Desire groups—of hope and freedom—for men and women. Following his healing, Nick stayed connected to Pure Desire through group leadership and has authored two books, Setting Us Free and Safe. Today, as the Executive Director for Pure Desire, Nick continues to believe that the Church can become a place of healing and that Pure Desire is leading the way. His passion for the Church and this ministry is evident. The post Podcast Ep.75: When Christian Leaders Fail Us (Nick Stumbo) appeared first on Before You Quit.

I picked up and read best selling author Dave Harvey’s popular book “When Sinners Say I Do” about a year ago, and I loved it. How important it was to be reminded that problems happen in marriage because we are sinners, but there is hope because we have a Savior. Not long ago, I connected with Dr. Dave Harvey and asked if we could talk, for my podcast. He agreed, I was happy, and we had a great time talking also about his latest book, a devotional called, I STILL DO. My wife and I have enjoyed many early morning coffee talks around this wonderful devotional. Listen to this podcast and order the books from the links below. Dave Harvey – Check out his website here) DAVE HARVEY (D. Min – Westminster Theological Seminary) serves as the president of Great Commission Collective, a church planting ministry in the US, Canada and abroad. In his 33 years of ministry, Dave was president of Sojourn Network, oversaw church planting, church care & international outreach for Sovereign Grace Churches, was a lead pastor for 19 years, and pastored for a total of 33 years. He is also the founder of AmICalled.com. Dave presently serves on the board for the Christian Counseling and Educational Foundation (CCEF) and has traveled nationally and internationally doing conferences where he teaches Christians, trains pastors & church planters and conducts marriage events. Dave served as general editor for the Sojourn Network ‘How-To’ series and contributes regularly at The Gospel Coalition, Desiring God, and For the Church. Dave is the author of When Sinners Say I Do, Am I Called?, Rescuing Ambition, Letting Go: Rugged Love For Wayward Soul (co-authored w/ Paul Gilbert), and I STILL DO! Growing Closer and Stronger Through Life’s Defining Moments. Married for 37 years, Dave and Kimm have four kids, four grandkids and lives in southwest Florida.   Clink on book to order   Click on book to order The post Podcast Ep. 74: When Sinners Say ‘I DO’. (Dave Harvey) appeared first on Before You Quit.

I want to talk today about the gospel and the right kind of anger. Much of this comes from my own personal reflection on how we are to respond when so much seems so wrong around us. Is it possible to act in love, to respond in love, motivated and driven by the gospel and still be angry by what we see around us? I hear often that as believers we should respond with understanding, but where is this line drawn when the gospel causes us to hate the evil around us. Does being loving mean we put up with wrong, or is this a time when a hard reaction is necessary? It’s fascinating to look at scripture and realize that we are called to hate evil and to speak strongly to evil doers. I hope this conversation I am going to have with two friends, Pastor Eric and Pastor Dan will awaken in us a biblical response that leaves room for the right kind of anger. Eric Anderson, is founding pastor of Lifespring Church, Crosby MN, (www.visitlifespring.com) where he has served for 11 years, previously he served as youth pastors for 7 years in the Evangelical Free Church. He is husband to Miriam, father to 9 children. He also is co-organizer of the Common Slaves Fellowship (www.commonslaves.com), a network of Reformed and Reforming churches and pastors in North East Minnesota. Additionally, he hosts a Zoom meetings podcast called “a Place for Truth”, geared at laymen, which gathers together experienced Reformed pastors and professors to discuss cultural topics. Daniel Samms trains house church leaders as planting pastor for Restoration House Church Network (www.restorationhcn.org) and equips scholars as a theology professor for Liberty University. He also writes curriculum and teaches for Underground Seminary (www.undergroundseminary.net), a low-cost, subscription-based theological training system for people who want to be grounded doctrinally. He loves his wife and kids, likes to build guns and cigar box guitars, and does not suffer heretics. A Great Source mentioned by Pastor Eric: A Catechism for Boys and Girls, by Errol Hulse The post Podcast Ep.73: The Gospel and Right Anger (Dan Samms and Eric Anderson) appeared first on Before You Quit.

With so much changing in our church, as we seek to reach each other and reach culture around us what we want to talk about today is the role of biblical education in our church life. My encouragement to you as a pastor and church leader, is as you make changes, as you adjust, as you make room for growth and seek to reach better and serve better, don’t diminish your commitment to biblical education. I am excited to talk my good friend, Alan Wilson who speaks out of vast experience in helping churches remain strong in their commitment to christian or Biblical education.  Alan Wilson, the U.S. Field Coordinator for Regular Baptist Press, has served Baptist churches in Florida, Michigan, and Wisconsin, and has ministered as a deacon, Sunday School teacher, youth pastor, associate pastor, and senior pastor. Currently Alan travels the United States, speaking and leading workshops in major conferences and in churches across the country. Order STRONG CHURCH AT RBP BY CLICKING ON BOOK The post Podcast Ep.72: Keeping Biblical Ed. In Your Church (Rev. Alan Wilson) appeared first on Before You Quit.

I recorded this podcast in February, just before COVID. Have a good laugh at my reference to the primaries in Maine. Seems like years ago, doesn’t it? I interview pastor Steve about his involvement with IPM (Intentional Pastoral Interim) and how best to help troubled churches. We don’t just talk about the role of the interim pastor, but also what is going in a church that might require intentional help from the outside. It’s a great conversation, and one that is just as relevant now, maybe more, than when everything seemed more normal. Rev. Steve Kerhoulas (MA in Pastoral Counseling)In 1970 the Holy Spirit drew Steve to the cross, and he became a Christian. After finishing college at Western Carolina University he was accepted into a one year program through New York Theological Seminary. That year was a turning point in his life. Upon its completion he began a journey that would lead him to be a group home parent with Youth For Christ, then off to Asbury Theological Seminary, and then to five churches as the senior pastor. He is married to Candi and has four grown children. Steve and Candi live in Sky Valley GA. Steve is also an active member of IMP. Check out their website here. The post Podcast Ep.71: Troubled Church and the Interim (Pastor Steve Kerhoulas) appeared first on Before You Quit.

I have a question. Maybe two? What is happening to the church during COVID? What will happen to the church? We are hearing a lot about what COVID is doing to the church and to believers. (I A study done by The Barna Group suggests that because of this reason one in five churches will close post COVID (See source here.) Barna also anticipates that one in three Christians will likely stop attending church or already have. (See source here). It comes as no surprise then that according to Thom Rainer a significant number of pastors plan to quit post COVID. I increasingly see friends not going back to church. Why? One theory is, it’s working for them. They can maintain a level of spiritual vibrancy, They aren’t messing up. It’s working just fine. I hope from my conversation today with Eddie Cole that this podcast doesn’t just explain why things are the way they are in church, but that this would also bring us back to the value of church. To why it matters and why it’s time to make church matter again. Since 2019, Eddie Cole has served as the executive vice president of national ministries with the Evangelical Free Church of America. Prior to his work with the national office, Eddie spent 24 years in vocational ministry, serving first as a local church pastor and then as district superintendent of the Eastern District. Eddie and his wife, Jessica, love to support pastors and leaders as we pursue our mission to glorify God by multiplying transformational churches among all people. The post Podcast Ep.70: Seeing Church Matter Again: Post-COVID (Eddie Cole) appeared first on Before You Quit.

Today is a hard topic but a necessary one. I want to talk about something the church needs to be more aware of than I think we are and that is the topic of opioid addiction. You will also find later in the podcast that this is a very personal subject for me as I choose this podcast to share publicly about my own struggle some years ago with dependance on prescription pain medication. I love the conversation I had with Kirk Driscoll on how church can be a healing community for those who struggle with addiction. It is very likely that you have a number in your congregation who struggle with drug addiction, particularly opioid addiction. I hope this podcast helps you to better reach those who live in isolation of addiction but also that it would offer courage to you, if you are in the midst of this lonely struggle yourself. I know Kirk will encourage you as he shares his own struggle with addiction and the insight he has gleamed that has helped many over come this tragic reality. My guest today is Kirk Driscoll who lives in Atlanta, GA with his family, and leads the Warrior Vision Church whose mission is to end addiction, everywhere. On their mission page it says this: The statistics related to drug overdoses on opiates alone is staggering. It is estimated that in 2017 nearly 49,000 people died from overdose caused by opiates alone and that number is rising. As an American you are more likely to die from an overdose than a car crash, or gun violence.The treatment of this affliction is multifaceted, we believe it should not bankrupt a person or family, and that a safe sober environment should be available to anyone who wants to recover. This is a needed conversation and I am so glad I connected with Kirk Driskell to talk about. Let’s join in that conversation right now. To contact Kirk go here The post Podcast Ep. 69: Opioid Addiction and the Church appeared first on Before You Quit.

In this podcast I muse over the state of the gospel, post-Covid. I also encourage the pastor to commit to gospel-centered, Biblically-solid expository preaching. My suggestion is; the church that will remain strong are those who are committed to the gospel. I also look at some of the pressures threatening the church, distracting her from her mission, and the call to remain true to the sufficiency and authority of scripture. While I speak somewhat strongly toward some drifting even in my own denomination, some of the hyperbole I use is meant to capture our attention with hope that we will all be challenged by returning to the gospel in our preaching. The post Podcast Ep.68: The Gospel and the Alliance (My own musings) appeared first on Before You Quit.

It’s Interesting how this podcast turned out. I asked around for someone I could interview on the subject of addiction, mainly the issue of addictions to opioids and how the church should understand it and respond and so someone was recommended to me. His name is Mark Danzey. I sat down with Mark and as we began this conversation the addiction we ended up mostly talking about was on pornography. And I agree. This is a needed conversation and one that few are willing to talk about. I sat down with a young man some time ago who said something like this. It’s weird to me that this is probably the biggest struggles guys face, but probably the one struggle no one talks about. So we are talking about it today, with Pastor Mark Danzey. Before we go to the interview let me in introduce Mark. Mark has been providing pastoral counseling for the last 25 years. Passionate about his work, Mark has spent the last 10 years focused on working with couples in various scenarios from premarital counseling to crisis counseling. Mark is eager to help people looking to make positive changes in their life through personal relationship coaching, career coaching and executive coaching. Additionally, as a Certified Civil, Domestic and Divorce mediator, Mark helps to mediate difficult situations toward a path of peaceful and amicable resolution.  Mark holds a M.A. in Pastoral Ministries, ordination in the United Methodist Church, as well as certifications with the International Institute for Trauma and Addiction Professionals, the International Coaching Federation and the State of Georgia Office of Alternative Dispute Resolution.   Mark and his wife Tammy, have been married for 16 years and have four grown children and one amazing grandson!  Check out the websites that highlight Mark’s different ministry offerings: Narrowgateefl.com wisepathmlc.com wisepathcoach.com The post Podcast Ep.67: The Pastor and Pornography (Pastor Mark Danzey) appeared first on Before You Quit.

Brett Schultz grew up in a pastor’s home and he’s actually a normal kid. Pastors try as best they can to assure their children do not grow up with the common stigmas that come with being a PK (Pastor’s Kid). The pressure to represent the family well can be a heavy burden for any child of a ministry parent. While most pastors and missionaries do a great job protecting their children from these burdens, there are some things that are beyond their control. Brett is my son, and he’s often told me that we did well allowing him to be a normal kid, but there were somethings we could not protect him from. I sat down with Brett and talked about what it was like to struggle through cancer, and how this, along with the loss of his older brother to cancer, and his mothers struggle to recover from brain cancer, shaped an indelible faith that could only have been forged in the fires of suffering. He’ll tell you he would not be who is today, doing what he’s doing, had it not been for these trials. Brett works as writer and producer for Student Life Ministries and lives in Birmingham, Alabama. Brett is also founder of an Improv Team called The 2’nd Funniest Guys You’ve Ever Met. If you are interested in inviting Brett and his team to your church, you can go his website here. The ‘2nd Funniest Guys’ provide quick-witted, outrageous improv comedy. Each show, based off audience members’ personal stories and suggestions, will bring laughter and energy, leading to a memorable experience for your group. Whether it be for your student gathering, DNOW, or Senior Sunday School Ice Cream Social these guys are sure to bring the excitement and hilarity your group has been waiting for. The post Podcast Ep 8: Storms and the Pastor’s Home (with Brett Schultz) appeared first on Before You Quit.

What exactly is being asked of us? Why should I be responsible for the sins of my ancestors? I’m not racist, but why am I made to feel like I am? What do you mean, ‘unless I am anti racist, then I am racist? It feels you’re asking for penance, not repentance? Can there really be justice in a world full of rebellion and hatred toward God? How does the gospel speak to race and social justice? I am sitting down today with my friend Dr and Pastor Reginald Screen to discuss these questions and more. You will find today’s podcast to be both honest and at times raw. I shared with Reggie how many of us have a lot of question even at time wondering what is being asked of us from the black community and what will it take from the white evangelical church for there to be a true sense of healing. Reginald S. Screen is an Air Force Veteran. He has been in ministry for twenty-nine years (main- ly involved in church planting, church redevelopment, discipleship, coaching, and leadership de- velopment). He currently serves as an Assistant District Superintendent focusing on Church Min- istry Development for the South Atlantic District (now Alliance South). Additionally, Reginald served as the Regional Church Planting Coordinator for the Southeastern Region (11 States and Puerto Rico) for the Christian and Missionary Alliance. Reginald is also the founder and director of a nonprofit called 3L Cultural Intelligence Group, LLC. He holds degrees in Accounting, Bibli- cal Studies, Organizational Development (with an emphasis on coaching and leadership devel- opment), Christian Leadership, and Apologetics and Theology. Reginald resides in metro Atlanta. Check out 3L Cultural Intelligence here The post Podcast Ep.66: A White and a Black Pastor Talk Race and Social Justice appeared first on Before You Quit.

In today’s conversation with Rev. Mark Barnard and Dr. Kenneth Quick we are going to talk about dancing in church. Okay, now I know I have your attention. But no, not that kind of dancing. We will be discussing the dance of gifts in the church. Here’s what the conversation will be about: Much has been written on how God speaks to us as individuals, but the bookshelves are bare when it comes to helping leaders know how God speaks to and guides a ministry. The Dance of the Gifts seeks to help fill that gap. It enables your leadership to discern God’s will for your ministry in a thoroughly biblical manner by developing a better understanding of how spiritual gifts work together. Discussion questions are provided at the end of each chapter, making The Dance of the Gifts a helpful resource for training ministry leaders. (Taken from back cover of the book, THE DANCE OF THE GIFTS) DR. KENNETH QUICK Dr. Kenneth Quick is Professor Emeritus of Practical Theology at Capital Seminary and Graduate School in Greenbelt, Maryland, an arm of Lancaster Bible College. Previously, Ken was a Senior Pastor for 23 years. He earned Doctor of Ministry degrees in both Communication and in Marriage and Family Therapy. Ken has authored, Healing the Heart of Your Church: How Church Leaders Can Facilitate Corporate Healing, Body Aches: The Experience of and Response to God’s Discipline of your Church; Living for the Kingdom: Eternal Significance as a Motivation for Christian Living; and co-authored The Eighth Letter: Jesus Still Speaks. Ken serves as Director of Consulting for Blessing Point Ministries. He and his wife, Diane, reside in Columbia, Maryland. Ken can be reached at [email protected] or 443.538.3074 REV. MARK BARNARD Mark serves as president of Blessing Point Ministries Inc. He holds a BA in Bible from Nyack College and an MA in Pastoral Studies from the International School of Theology. He has served in various pastoral and teaching capacities across a spectrum of evangelical denominations. Mark authored The Path of Revival: Restoring Our Nation One Church at a Time, Diagnosing the Heart of Your Church: How Church Leaders Can Assess Systemic Corporate Dysfunction, Sustaining the Heart of Your Church: Twenty Exercises to Help Church Leaders Over come Lingering Corporate Dysfunction and Joseph Unrobed: Holding on to Your Dreams When Life Seems Like a Nightmare. He coauthored The Eighth Letter: Jesus Still Speaks . Mark is the father of four and the grandfather of two. He and his wife, Jeannie, reside in Peachtree City, GA. Mark can be reached at [email protected] or 678.201.7033 Click on book for order information   The post Podcast Ep.65: The Dance of Gifts in the Church (Mark Barnard and Ken Quick) appeared first on Before You Quit.

 Let me start with a question, maybe a bit tongue in cheek. What if during this Covid 19 season while the church has been fasting from meeting corporately that the antagonist in the church have had a huge change of heart and are now determined to come back fully supporting the pastor and the church leaders? Well, we hope this would be, but I would imagine that the pastor and church leader will in time be under attack again. I am sure for many pastors this break has been a reprieve from ongoing attack and criticism from what our guest today refers to as hero persecutors. Similar to how Satan left Jesus to tempt him again at an opportune time, I have no doubt that this respite for the pastor from attack, will resume again, at an opportune time. What do leaders need to do and understand when the church becomes a toxic environment? How can the church nurture a climate where the work of the gospel thrives even when there is conflict? I have the privilege in this Before You Quit podcast to look at these questions with with Dr. Chris Creech, author of the book Toxic Church. Chris Creech and his wife, Faith, have been in ministry for over forty years. During this time they have served in pastoral ministry for over twenty-eight years in five churches, including one church they planted in Toronto. Chris earned an M.Div. and Ph. D. from Southwestern Seminary. He has taught at seminaries in Singapore and Malaysia as resident faculty and as adjunct faculty at other seminaries in Asia, Europe, North America and South America.  Currently they are serving Pinnacle Ministries as Directors of Pastoral/Missions/Church Health and as adjuncts in several Asian and US seminaries. Click on book cover for order information Click on book cover for order information The post Podcast Ep.64: What Makes for Toxic Churches (Dr. Chris Creech) appeared first on Before You Quit.

During this Covid 19 season (I’m sure it will have a better name down the road) I have been thinking a lot about what this will do to or for the church. Will we be stronger for it? Is this one of those events that God will use to sift the church, from those who are lukewarm to those who are deeply committed? During this time many give testimony of opportunities to reach people they would have never reached before. Online messages have a reach unlike anything else we have seen. That is wonderful, especially if the gospel is being proclaimed. I have reflected a lot during this Covid 19 season about the state of gospel in America. Is the gospel taking root during this time and what will our committed to it be once things get back to some semblance of normal? Well I had the privilege of talking about this with Brandon Kimber who is a writer, producer and film maker. Brandon is perhaps best known for producing the American Gospel series that has really taken the church by storm in the last couple years. I would really encourage you to access these films and show them to friends and family, and to your church leadership. There is no greater time than today for us to truly understand the gospel of Jesus Christ. Brandon Kimber is a Christian, husband, father, and filmmaker from Cleveland, Ohio. Director of American Gospel: Christ Alone, and American Gospel: Christ Crucified.  Check out the American Gospel Documentary films here To view a free one hour version of the American Gospel: Christ Alone click here The post Podcast Ep.63: The State of the Gospel in America (Brandon Kimber) appeared first on Before You Quit.