Before You Quit

Church conflict doesn’t just hurt people—it clouds God’s glory and weakens the church’s witness to the world. While there are many causes, one often overlooked issue is that many church members haven’t been taught how to think well about pastoral authority or how to follow in a healthy, biblical way. In the wider world, “followership” is being studied more seriously, but the church has largely neglected it—or worse, confused it. Because of real concerns about abuse, many avoid talking about authority altogether. But ignoring it leaves the church vulnerable, especially in difficult seasons. This Podcast aims to help believers become wise, healthy followers who support godly leadership and contribute to a thriving church—one that ultimately brings glory to God. Order Scott’s book here! ABOUT SCOTT MASON: “Scott Mason spent half a career in the business world before being called to pastoral ministry. He spent 15 years serving as an associate pastor and a senior pastor at several churches of varying sizes. Some of these were established churches, and some were church plants. He has graduate degrees from the Elliot School of International Affairs at George Washington University and from Liberty Theological Seminary, as well as a Doctor of Ministry from Bethel Seminary.” The post Podcast 158: Respecting Pastoral Authority (Scott Mason) appeared first on Before You Quit.

Several months ago, former actor and apologist Kirk Cameron stepped squarely on an evangelical hornet’s nest—and didn’t flinch. On a podcast with his son, he planted his apologetical feet firmly on one of the most controversial views of hell: annihilationism, also known as conditional immortality. The backlash was swift—but so was something else: renewed interest in a doctrine many have quietly avoided. What is hell, really? What does the Bible actually say? And how do we square it with a just and holy God? Now, I don’t agree with Cameron’s position—in fact, I think it’s dangerous. But I’ll say this: I’m glad we’re talking about it. Because the full gospel isn’t just comforting—it’s confronting. It tells a story of grace and glory, but also of judgment. And we can’t afford to edit that out. In this episode, I sit down with my go-to theology guy, Pastor Dan Samms, to dig into the biblical doctrine of hell, how it should be preached, and how we handle the tough, emotional questions that come with it. Pastor Dan is deeply committed to doctrine who believes if the pastor is going to be passionate about anything, it needs to be about what he believes concerning the truths of God’s Word. Dan’s primary role is equipping the saints to make disciples. He pastors Restoration Church. He also teaches theology for Liberty University and for Underground Seminary. Dan is in love with his wife, Christy. They have three kids, a few chickens, and an awesome dog named “Sam.” Dan drinks good coffee, enjoys fine woodworking, and writes theology curriculum. Christy is a licensed counselor. She owns Hope Counseling and Consultation Services, LLC and is an incredible mother who has a variety of hobbies . Together, they raise their kids, lead the church, and enjoy God’s blessings and they do all that in Amherst, Oh. The post Podcast 157: WHAT ABOUT HELL! (Pastor Dan Samms) appeared first on Before You Quit.

We live in a broken world, and that can often leave us broken. Trauma is often the result of specific events in our lives that leave a lasting mark, often leading to a profound deep deep-seated sense of isolation and pain that can also lead us to make bad choices. A child is molested at a young age, and this event leaves a lasting mark as they grow older, finding it difficult to enjoy life, function well at work, or live in healthy relationships. A soldier sees things in war, comes home, and never talks about it with his family and friends. This is trauma. Even pastors face traumatic events. When people tell me they have been traumatized by a church, I will jokingly say, “Try pastoring for over thirty years, and I will talk to you about trauma.” In this podcast, John Kerr and I talk about how the pastor, or any Christian for that matter, can learn the skills on how to help people going through trauma. We also desire to help you if you have experienced trauma. We also talk about how there is hope in the gospel. Jesus, by dying on the cross, experienced more trauma than we ever will. And he understands us, provides comfort and healing in the gospel, and puts the right people in our lives to help us through our painful events. You can be set free from trauma. In Hebrews 4:15, we are given this wonderful promise: “For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.” John Kerr is a licensed counselor and graduated from Brown University. He lives in Toccoa Ga and currently working in addiction counseling. The post Podcast 156: The Pastor and Trauma Counseling (John Kerr) appeared first on Before You Quit.

Choosing godly elders is essential to the health of the church. Pastor Charles Swindoll writes, Every church is the lengthening shadow of those who lead it. Therefore, no issue is more important in any church than having the most-qualified people who model true spirituality serving in leadership as elders. This explains why the lists of qualifications in 1 Timothy 3:1–7 and Titus 1:5–9 are so strict and demanding. Unfortunately, in most churches of America, the method of appointing and selecting those who lead is skewed. In those churches, leaders are chosen by majority vote, having been selected because the candidates are good businessmen or popular among the congregation or wealthy or long-time members or well-known, impressive individuals in the community. Nice and important as those factors may be, they have nothing to do with whether a person is qualified to be a servant leader and to be able to guide the flock of God in a way that honors the Lord Jesus Christ. In this podcast, I interview Pastor Hobie Wood of Christ Presbyterian Church in Clarksville, GA, on his 14 years of experience choosing the right elders for your church. Hobie is married to Hannah, and they have 3 children. He is a native of Tiger, Ga., a graduate of Clemson University (B.S.) and Reformed Theological Seminary in Charlotte, NC (MDiv.). Prior to seminary and being called to be the pastor at Christ Presbyterian, Hobie and Hannah were on staff with Campus Crusade for Christ (Cru) at Appalachian State University in Boone, NC. He’s a rabid Clemson fan, a cyclist, and a (very) novice fly-fisherman. The post Podcast 155: Choosing Elders (Rev. Hobie Wood) appeared first on Before You Quit.

Those who grew up during World War 2 are gradually leaving us. Most who are alive are in their 90s or older. It’s important we keep their memories alive. Both my father and mother grew up in Europe and experienced the trauma of growing up under Nazi Occupation. In this podcast, I interview my 93-year-old mother about her story. Three years ago, my father passed away at the age of 93. My mother lives near us, and while diagnosed with stage three cancer, she remains independent and relatively healthy. For an interview I did with my father, you can click here.   The post Podcast 154: Growing Up Under Nazi Occupation (Janine Schultz) appeared first on Before You Quit.

Charles Spurgeon said of the Bible, “To me the Bible is not God, but it is God’s voice, and I do not hear it without awe.” I did a quick review on Amazon of the number of books titled “Hearing God’s Voice.” I was amazed at the dozens of books written on that title. For example, Priscilla Shirer in her book, He Speaks to Me, writes, “God desires to speak to you through His Word and His Holy Spirit. By learning to listen to God’s voice and committing to obey Him, you will draw closer to God with a deeper desire to serve Him faithfully.” Did you see her distinction, “through His Word AND His Holy Spirit.”? Is hearing God’s voice something separate from reading scripture? Henry Blackabee, in his book Hearing God’s Voice, writes, “This book is about hearing God’s voice, and by reading it, Christians need to learn to hear God’s voice.” He argues that just as those in scripture learned to hear God’s voice, so can you. Dr. Dan Samms and I ask, “How do we hear God’s Voice?” Our answer is, through his Word, through scripture. Dan is in love with his wife, Christy. They have three kids, a few chickens, and an awesome dog named “Sam.” Dan drinks good coffee, enjoys fine woodworking, and writes theology curriculum. Christy is a licensed counselor. She owns Hope Counseling and Consultation Services, LLC, and is an incredible mother who has a variety of hobbies. Together, they raise their kids, lead the church, and enjoy God’s blessings. Dan wrote a book, Follow: A Handbook for Making Disciples of Jesus Christ. It’s a handy tool for guiding people through initial steps in following Jesus. You can purchase it on Amazon.com, and it is inexpensive enough that you can easily buy a copy for a friend and read it together. Dan’s primary role at Restoration is equipping the saints to make disciples. Email: [email protected] Instagram: @roaringshepherd Website: www.undergroundseminary.net The post Podcast 153: Hearing God’s Voice (Dr. Dan Samms) appeared first on Before You Quit.

To understand transgenderism, we must understand our fallen nature. God created us in his image, and this is distorted by sin. The pressure from society to accept that you are born in the wrong body only leads to fatalism and despair. The gospel, however, brings hope and points to the restoration of our God created design through the God-man, Christ Jesus. In this podcast, my cohost and I discuss the origins of transgenderism, societal pressures, and how the church can better address the issue. Here is a sermon Pastor Dan Stegeman preached on the subject: Click the link here. Below is the lecture Pastor Dan Stegeman gave on the subject: Click the link here. For the Focus On the Family article on how to address transgenderism with your family, click the link here.   The post Podcast 152: Transgenderism and the Gospel appeared first on Before You Quit.

John Owen wrote, “A minister may fill his pews, his communion roll, the mouths of the public, but what that minister is on his knees in secret before God Almighty, that he is and no more.” Most pastors that I know are committed to a prayer life. However, it is something that is easily neglected. The weight of the sermon and the burdens for his people will cause the pastor to look for help, and the best help comes from the Lord Jesus. King David wrote in Psalm 34:6, “This poor man called out, and the LORD heard him; He saved him from all his troubles.” In this podcast, Pastor John Fogal discussed together the challenges for a praying pastor, the importance of prayer for the sermon, and the critical need to prayer for those he shepherds. John W. Fogal lives in Ft. Wayne, IN. He pastored for twenty years and served as a district superintendent with the Christian and Missionary Alliance for 18 years. He has also served as a coach for pastors and churches. John is also the author of Living the Beatitudes. Click on the book cover to order John’s book. The post Podcast 151: The Pastor and His Prayer Life (Pastor John Fogal) appeared first on Before You Quit.

What is good, Gospel preaching. We believe it must center on preaching both the law and the gospel. According to Eric Beach from 9 Marks, Scripture contains both commands to obey (law) and promises to believe for salvation (gospel). These are not antithetical to each other. Instead, they play indispensable yet different roles in the lives of Christians. A “gospel-centered” hermeneutic which unintentionally downplays or sidelines the commands of God for Christians will often result in significant problems over the long-term. The solution is not to downplay the gospel with a soft moralism or sideline the law with a soft antinomianism. Rather, teachers should proclaim both the law and the gospel. Pastor, preach the gospel of Christ the glorious savior in every sermon. But also preach the whole counsel of the word of God. Give your sheep God’s instructions and his commands for holy living. (See link here) Pastor Dan Samms and I discuss the importance of preaching LAW AND GOSPEL and how to frame the sermon so it does here in this podcast. Dan is in love with his wife, Christy. They have three kids, a few chickens, and an awesome dog named “Sam.” Dan drinks good coffee, enjoys fine woodworking, and writes theology curriculum. Christy is a licensed counselor. She owns Hope Counseling and Consultation Services, LLC, and is an incredible mother who has a variety of hobbies. Together, they raise their kids, lead the church, and enjoy God’s blessings. Dan wrote a book, Follow: A Handbook for Making Disciples of Jesus Christ. It’s a handy tool for guiding people through initial steps in following Jesus. You can purchase it on Amazon.com, and it is inexpensive enough that you can easily buy a copy for a friend and read it together. Dan’s primary role at Restoration is equipping the saints to make disciples. Email: [email protected] Instagram: @roaringshepherd Website: www.undergroundseminary.net   The post Podcast 150: Preaching Law and Gospel (Pastor Dan Samms) appeared first on Before You Quit.

I interviewed Pastor Matt Cohen on the discipline of expository preaching. Below is a summary of what expository preaching is from Qot Questions. See the link here. Expository preaching involves the exposition, or comprehensive explanation, of the Scripture; that is, expository preaching presents the meaning and intent of a biblical text, providing commentary and examples to make the passage clear and understandable. The word exposition is related to the word expose—the expository preacher’s goal is simply to expose the meaning of the Bible, verse by verse. To prepare an expository sermon, the preacher starts with a passage of Scripture and then studies the grammar, the context, and the historical setting of that passage in order to understand the author’s intent. In other words, the expositor is also an exegete—one who analyzes the text carefully and objectively. (See our article “What is the difference between exegesis and eisegesis?”) Once the preacher understands the meaning of the passage, he then crafts a sermon to explain and apply it. The result is expository preaching. G. Campbell Morgan, pastor of London’s Westminster Chapel and known as “the prince of expositors,” taught that a sermon is limited by the text it is covering. Every word from the pulpit should amplify, elaborate on, or illustrate the text at hand, with a view towards clarity. He wrote, “The sermon is the text repeated more fully.” A sermon’s primary function is to present the text. Matt Cohen is the lead pastor of Citylight Church in Philadelphia, PA, where he has served since planting the church in 2011-2012. Matt is also the Dean of the Center for Christ-centered Preaching and professor of preaching at Grimke Seminary. Matt has been married to Andrea since 2007 and they have two children, Soren and Sage. To hear a recent sermon from Pastor Matt, go here. To hear Matt share about how to become a preacher, listen to this interview here. The post Podcast 149: The Pastor and Expository Preaching (Pastor Matt Cohen) appeared first on Before You Quit.

Increasingly, parents are carrying a burden for prodigal adult children. Some months ago, out of my own burden, I purchased and read Pastor James Banks’ book called Prayer for Prodigals. I used the book as part of my devotional time and found great courage and comfort from the way James uses scripture to shape his prayers for his own two children. In this podcast, we discuss not only his book but also the humble journey of living and trusting a sovereign God to answer the deep cries of the heart for our burden for adult children who are not following Jesus. Dr. James Banks’ bestselling writing on prayer and faith, translated into multiple languages, has encouraged and inspired millions around the world. James is a devotional writer for Our Daily Bread and has been a pastor and church planter for 30 years. James is also a popular speaker at churches, conferences and retreats (to learn more visit his website). He is a graduate of Westmont College and holds advanced degrees from Princeton and Gordon Conwell Theological Seminaries. He and wife Cari have been married 35 years and make their home in Durham, NC. They have two adult children and one grandchild. For more information visit JamesBanks.org, PrayersForProdigals.org and James’ Facebook Author Page. Order Pastor Jame’s books below by clicking on the image: The post Podcast 148: Praying For Your Prodigal (Pastor James Banks) appeared first on Before You Quit.

We don’t often consider the impact of the pastor’s burnout on the pastor’s wife! I sit down with Tom and Karen Friedrichs to discuss their own journey with burnout, recovery, and how God used it to prepare them to help others in ministry. Often the wife is affected differently than her husband from his burnout. If not addressed, she can withdraw from others and even from her husband. We also discuss how the church could be safer place for pastors if the leadership were protecting him better particuarly from antagonists in the church. Tom and Karen have faithfully served together in ministry for over 30 years. Throughout their journey, Tom has pastored three churches and led a parachurch ministry, while Karen has supported him as a pastor’s wife and embraced numerous ministry roles, all while working as a registered nurse. Together, they have navigated the highs and lows of ministry life — and have a deep and personal understanding of the difficulties ministry leaders face, and the weight pastors and Christian leaders carry. When faced with Tom’s own time of burnout, his sabbatical experience brought about the soul rest that he needed, developing new healthy rhythms for a fruitful next season. Because of this journey, they are passionate about walking alongside Christian leaders to foster health, sustainability, and effectiveness for the long haul. Tom is a certified counselor and an ICF-certified life and leadership coach, with special training in “Life Younique” to help others discover their true calling and purpose. He also offers Sabbatical Coaching to help those in ministry plan for a meaningful sabbatical, stay on course during it, and have successful reentry to ministry. Karen’s heart for hospitality and support for pastor’s wives shines through in her work as both a retreat host and certified Christian life coach. Together, they are committed to creating an environment where you can rest, grow and thrive. Check out their ministry Broom Tree Landing here. The post Podcast 147: Pastor Burnout and His Marriage (Tom & Karen Friedrichs) appeared first on Before You Quit.

One Sunday after preaching, I found myself gravitating to a man I knew would compliment me for another great sermon. I found that I did this every Sunday. I bypassed others and went straight for my backslapping, always sermon-affirming, never-to-disappoint friend. The day I caught myself doing this was the day I realized this was unhealthy. So, I ignored that friend and stood in the lobby, eager to talk to anyone, even those who didn’t like my sermon and were honest about it. Why are pastors like that? According to my interview with Dr. Andreas Kostenberger, it comes down to our self-image. The Bible does talk about it, but it has to be a discussion around how Jesus views us. We both agreed that God will sometimes make us insecure so that we, in time, find our security in him. Dr. Andreas Kostenberger writes this on his blog on this subject: The role of pastors in fostering a healthy self-image is vital. People may think the concern for mental health and a proper self-image is a fairly recent phenomenon, but it is not. In the pages of the Bible, we see the apostle Paul display a consistent concern for the mental health of his associates and people in the churches. We see this most poignantly by the recurrence of the Greek word group, sōphro-, typically translated into English as “self-control,” though a more accurate translation would be “sound or healthy mind.” In his letters to Timothy and Titus, Paul urges that a sound mind be pursued by church leaders (1 Tim 3:2; 2 Tim 1:7; Titus 1:8), older and younger men (Titus 2:2, 6), older and younger women (Titus 2:5; cf. 1 Tim 2:9, 15), and by every believer (Titus 2:12). Drs. Andreas and Marny Kostenberger have four adult children, have decades of experience equipping leaders for ministry, and are devoted servants of God in our local church. Andreas is a Bible teacher and prolific author with a heart for coaching men in the ministry. Marny enjoys hospitality and coaching ministry wives and other Christian women leaders. Together, Marny and Andreas have written books on marriage and family, and each has written on topics of their expertise. Andreas is well known for his love of Biblical Theology and the Gospel of John. Both of us are also certified Christian leadership coaches (CCLC). Whether you are a pastor planning a sabbatical, a missionary starting home assignment, or any Christian leader looking for refreshment, encouragement, and support, we look forward to hosting you soon at our quaint cottage home! Whether you are a pastor planning a sabbatical, a missionary starting home assignment, or any Christian leader looking for refreshment, encouragement, and support, we look forward to hosting you soon at our quaint cottage home! Check out: www.oaktreecottage.org www.biblicalfoundations.org   The post Podcast 146: The Pastor and His Identity (Dr. Andreas Köstenberger) appeared first on Before You Quit.

The Pastor taking a sabbatical has theological backing. God commanded the Old Testament doctrine of the Sabbath or rest to remember him as our creator and provider. Those who don’t rest tend to forget that. By resting, we join Him and his rest from creation, but it is also our way of preparing us for the final rest that awaits us. “Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us fear lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it.” (Hebrews 4:1) The church and the pastor need to understand the importance of the pastor’s sabbatical. It is more than taking a break from burnout and stress. Sabbaticals done intentionally will help reset the pastor’s calling, bring rest to his soul, and prepare him for longevity. In this podcast, Pastor Dan Stegeman and I discuss the biblical basis for a sabbatical, how to plan it, and how to benefit from it. Here are some helpful resources. Why Sabbaticals are Good for Your Church by Sean Nemecek The Sabbatical Planning Tool Kit by Sean Nemecek 6 Reasons Pastors Should Consider a Sabbatical By Pastor Dan Stegeman Sabbatical Planning by Mitch A. Schultz The post Podcast 145: The Pastor and His Sabbatical appeared first on Before You Quit.

Pastors struggle to develop meaningful friendships. Imagine struggling, striving, and working for the good of others. But then, when you have a need, there is no one with whom you can be honest and share your heart. Many pastors are going through this. Almost all go through it eventually. In this podcast, Pastor Ken Cluck and I discuss why friendships are difficult for pastors but why they are still critical to his personal health and effective ministry. Pastor Ken has been in pastoral ministry since 1995. His ministry has included two Indian reservations (Northern Cheyenne and Nez Perce), refugee ministry, Korean churches, and urban and rural settings. Pastor Ken holds advanced degrees in ministry and theology, including two master’s degrees and a doctorate. In addition to pastoral ministry, Ken teaches graduate and undergrad classes through Crown College and is an evaluator for Alliance Leadership Development. In both roles, he trains future pastors. He also serves as a member of the Rules and Bylaws Committee for the Christian & Missionary Alliance.Pastor Ken has been married to Yong since 1987. They have been together through thick and thin, through good times and bad. Neither is perfect, but both seek to exemplify a godly marriage and provide a loving family for their children and grandchildren. For Pastor Ken’s blog titled: With Whom Does the Pastor Talk? Click here.   The post Podcast 144: Pastors and Friendships (Pastor Ken Cluck) appeared first on Before You Quit.

Do you know what is worse than a salvation without assurance? It is an assurance without a salvation. According to Jesus that is what is going to be worse for many. This book has been written to give you the opportunity to assess your own story of salvation and the way Jesus has come to you, as well as your response to him. God saves each of us individually so each of our stories are uniquely different. At the same time, God’s work in saving us is consistent. He works in the same way so there is something consistent that will be going on in all of our lives. In this podcast, I interview Pastor Joel Van Hoogen on his book Saving Evangelicals: When Many Say, Lord! Lord! Order the book by clicking on the cover! Rev. Joel Van Hoogen is the Executive Director of Church Partnership Evangelism (CPE), an international ministry devoted to equipping and engaging the members of Christ’s Body in personal evangelism, discipleship, and church planting. Ordained in the Christian and Missionary Alliance, he pastors a small fellowship in Boise Idaho. He and His wife have 5 children and 14 grandchildren. Other related resources – Church Partnership Evangelisms website does not have any bio information, but it does have important connections to this ministry. www.traincpe.org There is a website dedicated to this book, which is embedded on CPE’s website. www.testyourtestimony.com   The post Podcast 143: Saving Evangelicals – When Many Say, Lord! Lord! (Pastor Joel Van Hoogen) appeared first on Before You Quit.

When I heard the news of Steve Lawson’s sexual sin, I threw up my hands and said, “I give up! Is there anyone we can look up to anymore? Who is next?” If you need to find out who Steve Lawson is, he was right up there with giants like RC Sproul and John MacArthur. Lawson was a board member and teaching fellow of R. C. Sproul’s Ligonier Ministries. Lawson also served as the dean of the Doctor of Ministry program at The Master’s Seminary, founded by John MacArthur. Dan and I discuss what happened, how it could happen, and, more importantly, what lessons we can learn from it. One of our takeaways is how much more we should look up to our small-town local pastor than to famous pastors who we don’t know well and do not know us. We want to remind you that if you are looking for ways to direct your end-of-the-year giving, Fruitful Vine Ministry needs your help. You can go to our support page here and follow the directions. For helpful resources on the Steve Lawson story, check out these resources. https://truthscript.com/church/the-fall-of-a-leader-lessons-from-steve-lawsons-removal/ https://banneroftruth.org/us/resources/announcements/2024/when-a-christian-leader-falls/?srsltid=AfmBOorfFqnoeZ6Iw-nElkQp00WrUGQXN_kqCdr8xU-Br-BfYczO4mnd https://www.equip.org/articles/a-christians-response-to-pastor-lawsons-moral-failure/ https://pastoral-theology.com/2021/02/22/a-response-to-the-fall-of-ravi-zacharias/ The post PODCAST 142: The Story of Steve Lawson (Dan and Mitch) appeared first on Before You Quit.