Where Warlocks Stay Up Late

Cris Thomas, also known as Space Rogue, was a founding member of the legendary L0pht Heavy Industries — the hacker collective that famously told the U.S. Senate they could take down the internet in 30 minutes. He would go on to found the Hacker News Network, giving the underground a voice and warning the world how vulnerable it was. He told the full story in his award-winning book, Space Rogue. Chapters 0:00 Intro 0:40 Who is Space Rogue? 2:58 Growing up in rural Maine 4:20 Parents' divorce and its lasting impact 5:44 Building flashlights from trash — early curiosity 7:33 Childhood trauma and turning to computers 11:38 Joining the Army and buying his first Mac 14:47 Discovering BBSs and the modem world 21:10 Origin of the "Space Rogue" handle 23:19 Working as a security guard at Lotus 24:34 Dialing into BBSs from the Lotus overnight shift 32:27 The Works, 2600 meetings, and meeting the crew 36:13 What hacker meetups were actually like 40:28 Working at CompUSA with future L0pht members 42:59 CDC vs L0pht — setting the record straight 46:26 How the L0pht actually formed 53:37 The MIT flea market 57:10 Paranoia about law enforcement and the hacker crackdowns 1:01:54 Finding vulnerabilities and responsible disclosure struggles 1:06:16 L0pht v1 to v2 — moving to Watertown and membership changes 1:13:47 Fondest L0pht memories 1:16:25 Realizing L0pht was famous at Beyond Hope 1:19:02 L0phtCrack, t-shirts, and turning the hobby into a business 1:23:06 The birth of Hacker News Network 1:28:36 Breaking stories and becoming the "Voice of Reason" 1:31:01 Legion of Underground declares cyber war 1:41:59 The Senate testimony — how it came about 1:44:42 Suits, a rented van, and the road trip to DC 1:49:46 Reflecting on the testimony's real impact 1:53:55 "Security is here, it's just unevenly distributed" 1:54:27 The security boom and the road to At Stake 2:00:12 The At Stake deal — "garage band or mega band?" 2:05:24 Getting fired from At Stake — losing his identity 2:13:13 The lost decade — depression and rebuilding 2:15:24 Tan's call that changed everything — HNN goes video 2:22:11 Writing the book — motivation, self-publishing, and healing 2:27:40 Legacy and impact 2:29:42 Closing

Rob Knake's fingerprints are all over modern cyber policy. As White House Director for Cybersecurity Policy, he helped craft the nation’s most significant cybersecurity strategy in nearly two decades and guided the response to major national cyber incidents. He’s advised presidents, shaped global cyber norms, co-authored two influential books on cyber conflict, and served as a senior fellow at Harvard and the Council on Foreign Relations. Chapters: 00:00 - Intro 03:15 - Growing Up with New Deal Democrats 06:30 - "To Whom Much Is Given, Much Is Required." 10:45 - Choosing Public Service Over Corporate Law 14:20 - Education at Connecticut College 18:30 - Democracy, Capitalism & Fukuyama's End of History 22:10 - Coast Guard Internship & Steve Flynn's Influence 27:45 - Richard Clarke & Early Cyber Policy Work 32:20 - The Emergence of Cyber as a National Security Threat 36:40 - From Good Harbor Consulting to Government Service 40:15 - Working on Counterterrorism at DHS 44:30 - The Bin Laden Raid Era & Shifting to Cyber 48:20 - Joining the Obama White House NSC 52:45 - Life as an NSC Staffer - Long Hours & Mission 56:30 - Stuxnet & Understanding Real-World Cyber Threats 01:00:15 - The Failed 2011 Cybersecurity Legislation 01:04:40 - Executive Order 13636 & The NIST Framework 01:09:20 - Operation Aurora & Chinese IP Theft 01:13:45 - Nudges vs Shoves - Voluntary vs Mandatory Security 01:18:30 - The Need for Cybersecurity Regulation 01:22:50 - Who Should Regulate & How to Regulate 01:27:10 - Software Liability & Outcome-Based Security 01:32:25 - The SolarWinds/Sunburst Attack Explained 01:37:40 - Private Equity's Impact on Cybersecurity 01:41:15 - The Failure of Collective Defense 01:45:30 - Government vs Private Sector Responsibility 01:52:20 - Why Government Can't Take Over Cyber Defense 01:58:45 - The Rise of Ransomware as a Threat 02:03:30 - Should We Ban Ransomware Payments? 02:08:15 - Corporate Hack-Back Operations 02:11:40 - Holding Nation-States Accountable for Ransomware 02:16:25 - Deterrence vs Resilience in Cyber Policy 02:22:10 - Are We Winning in Cybersecurity? 02:26:30 - AI's Impact on Cybersecurity 02:29:45 - Trump Administration & Potential Regulatory Changes 02:33:20 - The Public Sector Pay Gap Problem 02:38:50 - Current Work in the Private Sector 02:42:15 - Bridging the Hacker-Policy Divide 02:45:30 - Closing Thoughts

Mohammed Bagha—who keeps his hacker handles anonymous and goes simply by ‘MB’—was one of the most feared hackers of the 1990s. With a larger-than-life online persona and the skills to back it up, he infiltrated corporate systems, telecom networks, and even the machines of other well-known hackers. He exposed their flaws, mocked their code, and dropped their secrets in public forums. But narrow misses with the law soon changed his path, and like many from that era, he turned his talents to defense—helping global companies strengthen their security and build lasting strategies.

David Jacoby (aka “pewp”) is a pioneering Swedish hacker with over 30 years of influence in cybersecurity and hacker culture. From the early days of BBS systems, war dialing, and underground groups like Hack.se to connections with the Pirate Bay founders and the infamous CIA website hack, his journey shaped how hacking is viewed worldwide. He has been a technical advisor for the Millennium Trilogy (The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo), starred in mainstream TV series like “Hacked”, founded Unreached AB, and now drives innovation as Chief Strategy Officer at Syndis in Iceland. Known for blending technical brilliance with cultural impact, Jacoby’s career reflects the evolution of hacking from underground curiosity to a force that redefined modern cybersecurity.

Before he taught murderers how to play Dungeons & Dragons in Rikers, Jason Snitker, aka Parmaster, was one of the most prolific hackers on the planet. Trading exploits with groups across four continents, slipping into Citibank, and landing in Underground, the book co-written by Julian Assange before vanishing from the Secret Service for over two years. --------- Chapters: 00:00 Intro 01:05 Parmaster’s Origin Story 04:40 First Exposure to Computing 08:15 Learning Through Hacking 12:30 Meeting the Jedi Hackers 17:20 Mentorship from Gary Kildall 22:10 Early Hacker Communities 28:00 Hacking Techniques: Pad-to-Pad Exploit 34:45 Citibank Debit Card Breach 41:00 TRW and Killer Satellite Programs 47:25 Chaos, Soviets, and Hacker Wars 53:15 Life on the Run 01:01:00 Near Misses with the Secret Service 01:09:30 Arrest in New York 01:15:20 The Tombs and Rikers Island 01:21:45 Trial and Technicality 01:27:50 Transition to Cybersecurity Career 01:33:30 Reflections on Legacy 01:36:10 Closing _______

From being the first to infiltrate hacking groups to going undercover in an Al Qaeda cell, Terry Rankhorn’s career shaped some of the FBI’s most critical moments in modern history. As a Supervisory Special Agent, he led covert entry teams across cyber, physical, and electronic access on some of the government’s most classified missions. In this episode, part 2 of a two-part episode, Terry discusses the complexities of navigating the hacker community and the impact of undercover operations on trust within that community. This conversation delves into the experiences of an undercover agent who transitioned from investigating cybercrime to infiltrating Al-Qaeda operations. Terry also discusses the challenges and psychological aspects of undercover work, the importance of mentorship, and the evolution of cybercrime from curiosity-driven hacking to organized scams. ______________________________ Chapters: 00:00 The Evolution of Cybercrime and Undercover Operations 03:13 Navigating the FBI: From Training to Field Assignments 06:03 The Landscape of Domestic Terrorism in the 90s 08:53 Transitioning to Cybercrime: The Rise of Computer Intrusions 12:08 Building a Career in Cybercrime Investigations 15:01 The Undercover Experience: Infiltrating Hacker Groups 17:52 The Challenges of Attribution in Cybercrime 21:12 The First Major Cybercrime Case: A Learning Experience 23:50 The MagicFX Case: Legal Precedents in Cybercrime 27:13 The Aftermath of Undercover Operations: Trust Issues in the Hacker Community 01:03:59 The Prolific Hacker and His Malicious Streak 01:05:36 Transitioning to Al-Qaeda Investigations 01:07:11 Undercover Operations: Peeling the Onion 01:09:00 The Stress of Undercover Work 01:11:18 Building Trust in Dangerous Environments 01:12:29 Psychological Profiles and Undercover Success 01:14:07 Mentorship and Learning the Art of Undercover 01:16:33 The Complexity of Undercover Operations 01:18:27 Conversion to Islam: A Strategic Move 01:20:10 The Beauty and Perversion of Religion 01:22:30 The Impact of the Al-Qaeda Operation 01:23:06 Post-Al-Qaeda Operations and Safety Moves 01:25:02 The Tactical Operations Center 01:29:39 Training for Modern Undercover Operations 01:32:22 Operational Amnesia in the FBI 01:35:08 The Black Bag Program: Breaking In 01:39:09 Prioritizing Major Cases 01:42:29 The Thrill of Covert Operations 01:43:11 Transitioning to Supervisory Roles 01:49:12 Leaving the Bureau: A Personal Decision 01:50:46 Consulting and New Ventures 01:53:04 Virtual Safe House: A Community Initiative 01:56:44 The Evolution of Cybercrime 01:58:11 The Motivation Behind Sharing Experiences _____________________________

From being the first to infiltrate hacking groups to going undercover in an Al Qaeda cell, Terry Rankhorn’s career shaped some of the FBI’s most critical moments in modern history. As a Supervisory Special Agent, he led covert entry teams across cyber, physical, and electronic access on some of the government’s most classified missions. _____________________________________________________ Chapters: 00:00:00 Intro, Undercover Ops & High-Stakes Hacking 00:06:00 From Rural Tennessee to FBI Legend 00:12:00 Tales from a Misfit Childhood 00:18:00 Mischief, Pranks, and Ethical Awakening 00:24:00 Why He Chose the Navy 00:30:00 Boot Camp Culture Shock & Mental Reset 00:36:00 Submarine School and Life Underwater 00:42:00 USS Honolulu: Elite Culture & Leadership 00:48:00 Commander's Intent & Periscope Pride 00:54:00 Deployments, Sacrifices & Camaraderie 01:00:00 Transition to Civilian Life & Reverse Engineering 01:06:00 Rediscovering the FBI Dream 01:12:00 FBI Application, Testing & Getting In 01:18:00 New Agent Training: Pain, Tests & Brotherhood 01:24:00 Injuries, Graduation & Swearing In 01:30:00 Meeting Amanda & Shared Military Background 01:36:00 Military Veterans in the FBI Today 01:42:00 Quantico's Legacy & FBI Academy History 01:48:00 Culture Clash in Training Styles 01:54:00 Reflections on Achievement & Fulfillment ________________________________________________________

The History of Cybersecurity Told by Those Who Hacked It Skyper, aka Eduart Steiner (not his real name), was the editor of Phrack Magazine between 2001 - 2006 (#57-#63), is a member of TESO and THC, and runs Segfault.net: free disposable root shells to fellow ‘activists. -------------------- Chapters 00:00 Cold Open 2:42 A Cold War Household 10:45 No Toy Survives Curiosity 14:57 A Whole New World 20:18 One Box, Two Box, Red Box, Blue Box 29:38 Point of View 37:13 EFnet-ville 42:01 TESO 45:54 The OpenSSH Exploit 53:16 Criminals vs Criminals 56:21 Hacker Consortium 01:00:36 Script Kiddie Wars 01:03:55 THC & Phrack 01:08:51 Cannibalism 01:11:54 Scanning the Internet 01:15:54 From Nothing to Something 01:18:47 Cracking A/51 01:22:33 Detained at Heathrow Airport 01:28:17 IT Security, Revisited -------------------- Where Warlocks Stay Up Late is an interview series dedicated to documenting the history of cybersecurity. Inspired by the seminal book “Where Wizards Stay Up Late: The Origins of the Internet”, this interview series aims to capture the stories, insights, and legacies of the pioneering figures who shaped the field of cybersecurity from its inception to the present day. #hacking #cybersecurity

The History of Cybersecurity Told by Those Who Hacked It Kingpin, aka Joe Grand, was the youngest member of the world's most well-known benevolent hacker group (L0pht Heavy Industries) who testified before the United States Congress, changed the hardware hacking landscape, brought electronics to #badgelife, and achieved mainstream popularity on national television. -------------------- Chapters 0:00 Intro 02:41 Kingpin's Origin Story 10:30 George Happy W. Bush 15:57 Spring Break Woes at Dr. Death's 26:25 Turning the Corner... 31:43 L0pht Heavy Industries 46:58 L0pht Version 2 59:43 The United States Senate Testimony 01:15:25 atstake and Corporate America 01:24:38 Grand Idea Studio 01:28:22 Training and Evangelism 01:34:26 DefCon Badges 01:39:52 Prototype This! 01:46:12 Trezor Wallet Hacking 01:52:28 Cold Wallet 01:56:40 Neurodiversity and Mental Health -------------------- Where Warlocks Stay Up Late is an interview series dedicated to documenting the history of cybersecurity. Inspired by the seminal book “Where Wizards Stay Up Late: The Origins of the Internet”, this interview series aims to capture the stories, insights, and legacies of the pioneering figures who shaped the field of cybersecurity from its inception to the present day. #hacking #cybersecurity

The History of Cybersecurity Told by Those Who Hacked It sangfroid, aka Ralph Logan, stumbled across the cDc, crossed paths with L0pht Industries, joined the emerging w00w00 group, and helped jockey The Honeynet Project before springboarding into a formidable cybersecurity career. -------------------- Chapters 0:00 Cold Open 02:45 Texas Roots 07:12 Critical Care Burn Out 13:55 cDc on BBS 16:50 The Command & Conquer Job 21:30 2600 24:00 Shell Offshore 28:00 L0pht Introductions 31:59 Setting the Career Path 36:00 Boston 40:30 w00w00 47:00 Guardent, @stake, and Foundstone 56:30 The Business of Cybersecurity 01:03:05 Honeynet Project 01:06:45 Entrepreneurship 01:11:00 [redacted] 01:13:50 The Fake Music Festival 01:20:30 Warlocks Love -------------------- Where Warlocks Stay Up Late is an interview series dedicated to documenting the history of cybersecurity. Inspired by the seminal book “Where Wizards Stay Up Late: The Origins of the Internet”, this interview series aims to capture the stories, insights, and legacies of the pioneering figures who shaped the field of cybersecurity from its inception to the present day.

The History of Cybersecurity Told by Those Who Hacked It The long-awaited debut of WWSUL Episode 1 is live. In this episode, we interview Digital Jesus , a member of Phonemasters, a hacking group hunted by the FBI across Texas, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Colorado, California, Oregon, New York, Florida, Canada, Switzerland, and Italy. ----------------- Chapters: 0:00 Intro 02:48 Matt's Beginnings 10:47 The First Computer 18:00 Discovering Internet Relay Chat (IRC) 27:21 The First Disclosure 31:54 Early Days of Phonemasters 36:56 Pre-releasing CallerID 42:46 FBI vs Phonemasters 58:46 Phone Taps 01:02:09 Consulting 01:06:23 MaxVision 01:16:52 Western Integrated Networks 01:21:16 Growing the Family 01:24:03 Owning Up to Mistakes -------------------- Where Warlocks Stay Up Late is an interview series dedicated to documenting the history of cybersecurity. Inspired by the seminal book “Where Wizards Stay Up Late: The Origins of the Internet”, this interview series aims to capture the stories, insights, and legacies of the pioneering figures who shaped the field of cybersecurity from its inception to the present day.

Where Warlocks Stay Up Late is an interview series dedicated to documenting the history of cybersecurity. Inspired by the seminal book “Where Wizards Stay Up Late: The Origins of the Internet”, this interview series aims to capture the stories, insights, and legacies of the pioneering figures who shaped the field of cybersecurity from its inception to the present day.