We Made This Political Podcast

Navigating Academia: Challenges, Equity, and ResilienceIn this episode of 'We Made This Political,' hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall welcome back Dr. Kristen Kroll, Professor of Developmental Biology at Washington University, St. Louis, to discuss the multifaceted challenges faced by women in academia—especially in the STEM fields. They delve into the impacts of political decisions on scientific research and healthcare, highlighting issues of equity, access, and the systemic barriers that persist. Despite the current political climate and budget cuts, the conversation remains hopeful, emphasizing the importance of humanizing academia, supporting work-life balance, and fostering a nurturing, inclusive environment for all scholars.00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome01:25 Recap of Previous Discussion02:06 Current Challenges in Academia and STEM06:24 Impact of Political Decisions on Healthcare10:43 Women's Reproductive Rights and Healthcare22:56 Gender Issues in Academia34:30 Balancing Parenthood and Academia35:51 Navigating Tenure and Family Life37:24 Challenges of Maternity Leave in Academia39:40 Supportive Environments and Human Connections41:56 Structural Changes for a Humane Academia47:44 The Importance of Work-Life Balance01:00:14 Hope for the Future of Academia01:04:25 Podcast Outro and Call to ActionAdditional ResourcesKristen’s Substack is Democracy, Social Justice, Education, and the Common Good.You can find her research and academic work on the Washington University website.Kristen discusses The Exceptions, a book about female scientists at MIT in the 1960s and the institutional sexism they faced. Read more about this book by author and journalist Kate Zernike here. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

In this episode of 'We Made This Political,' hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall discuss the challenges of balancing compliance and free thinking in parenting, particularly in the context of modern education and political climate. They share personal anecdotes about teaching kids autonomy while also fitting into societal norms, navigating school systems, and understanding community values. They explore the impact of structured versus unstructured environments on child development and the socio-economic factors influencing parental anxiety about safety. They also touch on the importance of teaching kids to navigate various systems and settings, the consequences of over-protection, and how to foster agency in children. The conversation includes insights into the intersection of politics, cultural norms, and education, and offers practical back-to-school tips. The episode concludes with a look at the importance of anti-fragility and navigating safe spaces.00:00 Balancing Compliance and Free Thinking in Parenting00:43 Introduction to the Podcast and Hosts01:32 Back to School: Challenges and Tips03:17 Parenting Styles and School Conflicts05:57 Navigating Systems and Norms07:07 Ambivalence Towards School Systems08:30 The Role of Bureaucracy in Education11:01 Teaching Kids to Navigate Different Contexts17:26 The Decline of Unstructured Play18:24 Safety Perceptions and Children's Independence23:15 Understanding Random Crime and Statistical Reasoning24:20 The Downside of Overprotecting Children24:49 The Importance of Parental Failures26:22 Cognitive Biases and Negativity Bias in Parenting27:42 Socioeconomic Factors in Parenting Anxiety31:12 The Role of Responsibility in Reducing Anxiety34:01 Challenges in Youth Employment and Volunteering34:45 Navigating Differences and Conflict Resolution41:10 The Concept of Anti-Fragility in Parenting43:53 Optimism and Reflections on ParentingAdditional ResourcesJonathan Haidt’s Anxious Generation (on anti-fragility in parenting) Lenore Skenazy’s Let Grow (on free-rage kids) Rob Henderson’s work on luxury beliefs (like being anxious about pregnancy and parenting) Musa al-Gharbi’s We Have Never Been Woke (on asking hard questions about the motivations and impact of social justice efforts) D.S. Winnicott’s work on the Good Enough Mother (Parent) (on how being the perfect parent crowds out opportunities for kids to develop competence and agency) [Also, sincere apologies from Lura — she attributed this idea to Heinz Kohut, who is renowned for self psychology and not the Good Enough Mother.] This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

In this episode of 'We Made This Political,' hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall engage in an enlightening conversation with Kristen Kroll, a developmental biologist at the University of Washington in St. Louis. The discussion covers a wide range of topics, including the complexities and challenges of conducting cutting-edge scientific research, the evolving landscape of academia, the impact of recent political changes on scientific funding and integrity, and the importance of diversity and equity in STEM fields. Kristen also shares her personal journey and passion for bridging the gap between science and public understanding. Tune in for a riveting exploration of how politics and science intersect in today's world.00:00 Introduction and Overview00:48 Meet the Hosts and Guest01:43 Kristen Kroll's Academic Journey02:40 Advancements in Developmental Neurobiology04:19 Challenges in Research Funding06:47 The Impact of Federal Funding Cuts07:53 Public Perception and Misinformation10:44 The Role of Advocacy in Science12:59 The Complexity of Modern Science16:54 The Threat to Academic Integrity20:21 The Future of Scientific Research35:41 The Complexity of Modern Research36:41 Challenges in Healthcare Policy37:28 The Issue of Paywalls in Scientific Publishing37:58 The Financial Burden of Publishing40:27 The Role of NIH Public Access Policy42:23 Diversity and Access in STEM43:28 The Future of Academia and Career Advice45:35 The Impact of Politics on Science48:19 The Importance of Representation in Science48:57 Kristen's Advocacy and Outreach Efforts51:29 Closing Remarks and Future Discussions01:09:56 Dismantling Expertise in American Institutions01:11:53 Political Motivations Behind Budget Cuts01:13:13 The Rise of Techno-Fascism01:15:15 Challenges in Communicating Science01:19:01 Complexity in Modern Science and Academia01:28:33 The Predatory Nature of Scientific Publishing01:33:28 Advice for Women and Marginalized Groups in STEM01:39:16 Concluding Thoughts and Future DirectionsAdditional ResourcesKristen’s Substack is Democracy, Social Justice, Education, and the Common GoodYou can find her research and academic work on the Washington University website. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

In this episode of 'We Made This Political,' hosts Lura Forcum, President of the Independent Center, and Lauren Hall, author of the Substack the Radical Moderate’s Guide to Life, are joined by Christina Dent, founder of 'End It For Good.' The discussion dives into moving from a criminal justice mindset to a health-centered approach in dealing with drug addiction. Christina shares her personal journey, starting as a foster mom, and how it reshaped her views on substance use. Highlighting the complexities of addiction, the conversation also explores Christina's work in creating open, non-coercive spaces for dialogue around drug policy. Through storytelling, empathy, and dialogue, the episode underscores the importance of approaching drug addiction with compassion and pragmatism.Additional ResourcesCheck out Christina’s book Curious to read her story in more detail.Connect with End it for Good to find out more about changing the way we think about drug addiction.Show Notes00:00 Introduction and Hosts' Backgrounds00:57 Introducing the Guest: Christina Dent01:52 Christina's Journey and Perspective on Addiction04:54 The Complexity of Addiction and Health-Centered Approaches08:57 Community Engagement and Book Discussions15:33 Advocacy and Creating Safe Spaces for Dialogue24:51 Challenges and Rewards of Vulnerable Advocacy32:41 The Importance of Bipartisan Solutions34:14 Finding Common Ground to Save Lives34:29 Innovative Approaches to Addiction Treatment35:19 The Power of Agency and Choice36:35 Family Support and Non-Coercive Methods38:39 The Effectiveness of Harm Reduction Programs39:11 Understanding the Addict's Perspective41:11 Empathy and Personal Stories in Advocacy41:49 Challenging Ideological Positions47:30 The Role of Emotions in Policy Discussions50:11 Investment Aversion and Personal Connection57:45 The Complexity of Addiction and Parenting01:02:03 Hope and Community Action01:07:56 Conclusion and Resources This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Exploring Polarization and Moderation with Dan ValloneIn this episode, Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall are joined by Dan Vallone, a veteran and expert in depolarization work, who shares his experiences and insights on bridging divides, based on his work with More In Common and his military background. The conversation also touches on the challenges and rewards of parenting, the significance of genuine local engagement, and the hope for a more unified societal future.00:00 Introduction and Opening Remarks01:26 Guest Introduction: Dan Vallone02:43 Dan Vallone's Journey to Depolarization Work03:40 The Role of Veterans in Depolarization04:24 Challenges and Successes in Local Community Work10:14 Military Service and Its Impact on Bridge Building16:29 The Disconnect Between Military and Civilian Life25:20 The Importance of Political Pluralism34:58 The Importance of Diverse Perspectives in Politics36:21 The Exhausted Majority: Who Are They?39:21 Challenges Faced by the Exhausted Majority41:00 The Role of Independents in Politics44:19 Parenting Lessons from the Military50:03 Embracing Hardships for Personal Growth55:02 Reflections on American Patriotism and History01:00:47 Closing Thoughts and Optimism for the FutureFurther reading and resources: Find Dan at danvallone.com This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Episode Title: We Made This Political – Parenting, Policy, and the French-American ExperienceHosts: Lura Forcum & Lauren HallGuest: Veronique de Rugy, Senior Research Fellow, Economist, and French-American parentAbout Our Guest:Veronique de Rugy is a Senior Research Fellow at the Mercatus Center at George Mason University, where she also holds a chair in economics. Originally from France, she earned her PhD in economics there before moving to the United States to complete her dissertation at George Mason. Veronique is a leading expert on budgetary and tax issues, government spending, and cronyism, and has worked at prominent policy organizations including the Cato Institute and the American Enterprise Institute. She is a prolific writer and commentator, known for her clear, data-driven analysis and her advocacy for free markets and limited government. In addition to her policy work, Veronique brings a unique perspective as a French-American parent raising two daughters in the US.Episode Summary:In this episode, Lura and Lauren are joined by Veronique de Rugy for a candid conversation about parenting, policy, and the cultural contrasts between French and American approaches to raising children. Veronique shares her journey from France to the US, her experiences as an economist and policy expert, and the challenges and surprises of raising two daughters in America.Timestamps & Highlights:* 00:00 – Introduction: Meet the hosts and today’s guest, Veronique de Rugy* 01:00 – Veronique’s background: From France to the US, economics, and policy work* 03:15 – Raising children in America: French heritage, language, and identity* 05:30 – French vs. American parenting: Sleep training, boundaries, and guilt* 13:00 – Navigating cultural expectations and finding a parenting style that works for everyone* 16:00 – The role of guilt, enrichment, and “doing it all” in modern parenting* 22:00 – Nature vs. nurture, resilience, and the limits of parental control* 29:00 – Implicit vs. explicit rules in families and society* 34:00 – How systems (education, healthcare) shape family life and individual choices* 44:00 – COVID-19, education, and the tension between what’s best for kids vs. the system* 54:00 – The realities of working parents, guilt, and making it all work* 1:05:00 – Adulthood, parenting through transitions, and the lifelong role of parents* 1:09:00 – The joys and challenges of parenting, declining fertility, and what we wish we could communicate to future parents* 1:13:00 – Final thoughts: Parenting as a transformative, humbling, and deeply meaningful experienceMentioned in this episode:* Brian Kaplan’s book Selfish Reasons to Have More Kids* Catherine Pakaluk’s book Hannah’s Children* The impact of COVID-19 on education and family lifeJoin us!Find something interesting? Leave us a comment and share the podcast with friends!And if you haven’t already, subscribe for more conversations about flourishing, family, and the politics of everyday life. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

In this special July 4th episode, we explore what patriotism looks like in 2025 and what we are truly celebrating on Independence Day. Lura and Lauren emphasize the importance of community, civic engagement, and the unique diversity of American life. They share personal stories and reflections on local events, discussing how shared spaces and sustained interactions with diverse groups can reduce prejudice and foster unity. The conversation also touches on the challenges of balancing personal responsibilities and community involvement, the historical context of American values, and the evolving role of the presidency.Recommendations for celebrating include listening to Aaron Copland's music and reading Frederick Douglass's speech, 'What to the Slave is the Fourth of July?'00:00 Introduction and Guiding Questions00:11 Defining Patriotism in 202500:42 Local Celebrations and Community Spirit04:39 The Importance of Intergroup Contact08:39 Challenges of Modern Socialization10:26 Hosting Community Events15:27 Historical Context and Moral Ambiguity22:14 Parenting and Societal Expectations30:11 Local vs. National Politics36:58 Exploring Race Relations and Social Behavior37:04 Acts of Kindness in Airports38:00 Reflecting on American Values and Utopianism39:17 Polarization and Perception of America41:28 Immigrants' Perspective on America46:14 The Role and Power of the President55:40 The Importance of Local Communities57:18 Final Thoughts and Recommendations This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

In this episode, we're joined by Ben Klutsey of the Mercatus Center to discuss pluralism, politics, and parenting. Ben shares his background and personal experiences that fueled his passion for pluralism, including his childhood experiences in Germany contrasted against his warm welcome in Appleton, Wisconsin. He delves into his academic and professional journey exploring pluralism, informed by luminaries like John Izu and through extensive conversations with scholars and public intellectuals. The conversation also touches on how pluralism can be practiced through innovative approaches like the Pluralist Lab and the importance of fostering virtues and curiosity in children. Ben's hopeful outlook on America's resilient spirit and the potential for fostering a more inclusive and understanding society wraps up our discussion.00:00 Introduction and Guest Background01:46 Early Experiences with Pluralism06:10 Academic and Professional Journey07:56 The Pluralism Summit and Practical Applications12:09 Fostering Curiosity and Engagement14:56 The Pluralist Lab Explained17:26 Challenges in Political Dialogue27:17 The Role of Competition and Cooperation28:14 Understanding Political and Affective Polarization28:48 Breaking Down Meta Perceptions30:02 The Complexity of Human Interactions32:21 Parenting and Virtues33:52 Balancing Virtues in Society36:20 The Importance of Pluralism40:39 Feedback and Perspective Taking49:06 Optimism and Hope for the Future This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

William Glass, Millennial Debt FoundationWilliam Glass is communications director of the Millennial Debt Foundation, based in Chattanooga, TN. He heads up the In the Black license plate program and hosts the podcast Gross Domestic Problem, among other activities.He has nearly a decade of experience building brands in e-commerce spaces and a few political campaigns under his belt.Show Notes: Navigating the National Debt with William GlassIn this episode, we're joined by William Glass, Communications Director at the Millennial Debt Foundation. Our discussion dives deep into the complexities of the national debt, exploring its implications and connections to broader societal issues like political polarization and economic instability. Glass explains the significant role entitlement programs such as Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid play in driving national debt. He also discusses the pressing need for entitlement reform and the potential for modernization and innovation to address these fiscal challenges. The conversation highlights the importance of balancing fiscal responsibility with ensuring support for vulnerable populations, painting a hopeful picture of how innovative approaches and robust economic strategies could pave the way for a more stable future.00:00 Introduction and Guest Introduction03:17 Discussing the National Debt08:07 Entitlement Programs and National Debt14:08 Millennials and Fiscal Policy21:09 Military Spending and Fiscal Challenges22:33 Budget Politics and Military Spending23:30 Entitlement Programs vs. Military Spending24:11 Government Efficiency and Military Procurement24:33 The F-35 Program and Military Spending Critique25:39 The Challenge of Addressing the National Debt30:45 The Complexity of Healthcare Costs36:58 The Role of Innovation in Solving Economic Issues41:53 The Potential of Corporate Disruption in Healthcare44:14 Concluding Thoughts and ResourcesFurther ReadingAnother non-partisan source on the deficit and budget is Romina Boccia of CATO. She also writes the Debt Dispatch on Substack. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Show Notes:Join us as we discuss the challenges of managing personal and professional lives amid the current chaotic world events. We delve into balancing bureaucracy in education with what's happening nationally, the impact of continuous news cycles, and the 'flood the zone' strategy. We talk about federalism's role in resisting authoritarianism, the importance of maintaining neutral spaces, and the significance of understanding and connecting with people from differing political spectrums. Strategies for fostering civil dialogue and preserving the dignity of all individuals are key themes. Expect optimism, concrete thoughts, and a long-awaited kid bomb!00:00 Introduction and Greetings00:20 Balancing Personal and Professional Life01:30 Managing Digital Distractions02:46 Overwhelming News Cycles03:39 Current Events and PR Strategies04:36 Flood the Zone Strategy06:05 Misinformation and Protests09:06 Accountability and Transparency in Government17:13 Federalism and Local Governance20:09 Ingroup and Outgroup Dynamics22:49 Toxic Polarization and Political Accountability29:02 The Role of Federal Government Power30:30 Liberal Institutions and Neutrality30:59 The Importance of Due Process and Liberal Institutions31:37 Toxic Polarization and Dehumanization33:14 Short-Circuiting Dehumanization Through Dialogue34:46 The Role of Online Spaces in Political Conversations38:30 Understanding and Engaging with Different Perspectives46:07 The Power of Neutral Spaces and Institutional Neutrality53:50 The Radical Concept of Human Dignity56:54 Optimism and Building a Better Civil SocietySources Cited “One story for the public, another for the courts” (The Preamble, by Sharon McMahon) This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Show Notes:Ep. 06: Building Resilient Communities with Seth KaplanIn this episode of 'We Made This Political,' we talk with Seth Kaplan, an expert on fragile states, social cohesion, and community resilience. We discuss Kaplan's work, including his book 'Fragile Neighborhoods: Repairing American Society One Zip Code at a Time.' The conversation covers Kaplan's transition from studying international communities to focusing on American neighborhoods, the importance of strong local institutions, and practical steps for building trust and connectedness in communities. Kaplan emphasizes the need for local engagement, stewardship, and the benefits of a localized approach to creating healthier societies.00:00 Introduction and Hosts00:31 Guest Introduction: Seth Kaplan01:26 Seth Kaplan's Journey and Work04:03 Community Dynamics and Social Cohesion10:20 Trust and Social Interaction17:28 Government Decentralization and Community Empowerment28:33 Neighborhood Design and Social Innovation35:15 Gardening as a Metaphor for Community Growth36:14 The Importance of Relationships in Politics37:17 Top-Down vs. Bottom-Up Politics38:13 Historical Context: Local vs. National Focus43:43 Revitalizing Segregated Neighborhoods49:58 Building Trust and Overcoming Challenges52:12 Practical Steps for Community Engagement58:20 Optimism and Future of Local Civil Society01:06:13 Final Thoughts and Encouragement This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Reimagining Political Engagement: Majority in the Middle’s Shannon WatsonJoin us as we chat with Shannon Watson, founder of the nonprofit Majority in the Middle. We discuss the challenges of political partisanship, the importance of civic education, and how we can create spaces for constructive political engagement. Shannon shares insights on demographic shifts, the personal impacts of running for office, and the power of positive reinforcement in political discourse. Tune in to learn about making politics more inclusive and less adversarial.*There are a couple places where the audio in this episode is not ideal because Shannon was recording from a busy space for unavoidable (and very good!) reasons. Thanks for overlooking the audio imperfections so we can keep getting fantastic guests with busy lives like Shannon.What You Can Do TodaySend an email or public social media comment to a public servant or politician you think is doing a great job doing bipartisan or bridging work. With so much negativity bias in politics, the folks who are doing the work of reaching across divides don’t hear enough (or any!) positive reinforcement when they’re doing the right thing. Those public messages of encouragement and support matter!Books and resources we talk about and/or recommend: What’s the Matter with Kansas (older book on voting behavior)It Takes a Candidate (women and political office)Show Notes00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome01:20 Shannon Watson's Background and Majority in the Middle02:13 Defining the Middle and Civic Education04:04 Personal Political Journeys05:47 Family Political Dynamics10:06 Political Polarization and Social Media13:42 The Origin of Majority in the Middle19:21 Challenges in Political Participation20:40 Structural Partisanship in Legislatures23:17 Encouraging Collaboration in Politics26:05 Politics as Relationships vs. Power27:39 Reflecting on Values and Intentional Storytelling28:23 The Role of Media and Universities in Shaping Public Perception29:07 Congress and the Attention Economy30:01 Activists vs. Jurors in Politics34:53 Challenges of Political Moderation and Independent Voters44:09 Local Government and Nonpartisan Roles48:58 Concluding Thoughts and Future Directions This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

In this episode of 'We Made This Political,' hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall introduce Austen Campbell, founder of the Independent National Coalition. Join them as they discuss the importance of independent thinking in politics, the challenges of the two-party system, and the need for coalition-driven strategies. They explore the potential of citizens' assemblies, the significance of representing diverse voices, and the necessity of genuine problem-solving over partisan politics. The conversation delves into the future of American politics, the role of technology, and the pressing issues facing the next generations.00:00 Introduction and Host Introductions00:36 Meet Austen Campbell: Founder of the Independent National Coalition01:28 The Appeal of Independent Politics03:28 Challenges and Litmus Tests for Independent Candidates07:53 Historical Context and Growth of Independent Movements12:19 Moderation, Centrism, and Independent Identity18:07 Problem Solving and the Future of Independent Politics24:36 Common Sense Immigration Policy24:56 Challenges of the Two-Party System25:24 Hope in Local Politics26:03 Electoral Reforms and Obstacles27:54 The Role of Morally Aligned Leaders29:04 Career vs. Celebrity Politicians34:01 The Value of Citizens Assemblies35:17 Barriers to Participation41:34 Experiencing the System Firsthand43:41 The Impact of Technology on Politics46:08 Optimism and Community Values This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Episode three is up! We’re still working out the kinks over here, including experimenting a bit with sound quality and some other things. Hopefully each episode will get a bit better.Send us any and all feedback, including ideas for new episodes! And if you like what you read, please share and subscribe! This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Welcome to the launch episode of 'We Made This Political,' a new podcast by Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall. In this introductory episode, Lura and Lauren discuss their goals, backgrounds, and what listeners can expect. The podcast aims to explore the intersections of modern life and politics, drawing on their diverse academic and personal experiences. They touch on parenting, polarization, and the need for better political discourse, setting the stage for future episodes. Expect candid conversations, tech hiccups, and even some pet and kid interruptions.00:00 Welcome to Our New Podcast!00:58 Meet Your Hosts: Lura and Lauren02:02 Diving into Our Backgrounds05:24 Parenting and Politics: A Unique Intersection11:24 The Importance of Constructive Conversations17:59 Hopeful Moments and Closing Thoughts This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Navigating Control and Agency in Politics and ParentingIn the second episode of 'We Made This Political,' hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall explore the concepts of control versus agency through the lenses of political science, psychology, and parenting. We discuss Mel Robbins' book 'The Let Them Theory' and its relevance to reducing anxiety by relinquishing control. We delve into psychological theories like illusory control, locus of control, and reactance to explain how people respond to attempts at control. The conversation also touches on the implications of these ideas for public policy, highlighting the necessity of understanding people's behaviors and motivations before attempting to change them. The episode emphasizes the importance of personal interactions in overcoming polarization and advocates for a bottom-up approach to building community trust.00:00 Introduction and Podcast Overview01:10 Exploring Control vs. Agency01:20 Mel Robbins' 'Let Them Theory'04:56 Psychological Concepts: Illusory Control and Reactance10:09 Parenting and Control Dynamics18:06 Nudge Theory in Policy and Parenting27:22 The Complexity of Retirement Savings28:04 The Role of the State in Retirement Planning29:06 Communicating Policy Effectively29:57 Understanding Human Behavior in Policy Making31:46 Polarization and Policy Interventions34:39 Ingroup and Outgroup Dynamics43:49 The Importance of Face-to-Face Interactions49:19 Parenting and Policy Parallels51:12 Concluding Thoughts and Future Discussions This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com