We Chat Divorce Podcast

Most people assume the biggest divorce mistakes happen in the courtroom. They don’t. In this episode of Divorce Explored, Karen Chellew and Catherine Shanahan break down the real—and often overlooked—risk: making decisions before you truly understand your financial picture. Because when you move toward agreement without verified numbers, you’re not negotiating from facts—you’re negotiating from assumptions. This conversation defines what true financial clarity actually means, why it’s not a feeling, and what must be in place before signing anything. If you’re feeling pressure to “just get it done,” this episode will help you pause, refocus, and make decisions that hold up not just today—but years from now. At My Divorce Solution, this is exactly why we focus on financial clarity before decisions are made—so strategy replaces reaction. Get clear on your numbers before making decisions. Start with a Free Divorce Financial Assessment: https://myfinancialportrait.com/get-started Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

There’s a quiet kind of divorce that doesn’t start with papers being filed. It starts years earlier—when the relationship has already ended emotionally, but nothing changes on the outside. In this episode of We Chat Divorce, Karen Chellew and Catherine Shanahan are joined by returning guest Karen Covy—divorce coach, attorney, mediator, and author—to unpack what it really means to feel “stuck” in a marriage. If you’ve been living in that in-between space—where fear, uncertainty, and obligation keep you from moving forward—this conversation will help you understand why. More importantly, it will show you what’s actually missing: clarity. What You’ll Learn in This Episode: What a “hidden divorce” really is—and why so many people are living in one The real reasons people stay stuck (it’s not just fear of divorce) Why not knowing your financial picture keeps you in indecision How misinformation from spouses, friends, Google, and AI can lead to costly mistakes Why divorce is not a binary decision—and the options most people never consider The role of financial independence and confidence, especially in long-term marriages How to make decisions using head, heart, and gut—not just fear Why clarity before action can dramatically reduce conflict, cost, and regret Resources Mentioned My Divorce Solution MDS Financial Portrait™ MDS Community (free support + live Q&A) Visit https://karencovy.com/ to find Karen’s resources When Happily Ever After Ends (book) Divorce Roadmap 3.0 Off the Fence Podcast If you’re questioning your marriage—or quietly feeling stuck—you don’t need to rush into a decision. Start with clarity. At My Divorce Solution, we help you understand your full financial picture before you take your next step—so your decisions are grounded in knowledge, not fear. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Most people enter divorce focused on legal steps. But divorce is ultimately a financial process—and the biggest mistakes happen before negotiations even begin. In this episode of Divorce Explored, Karen Chellew and Catherine Shanahan break down financial discovery in divorce—what it is, why it matters, and what happens when it’s skipped. If you don’t fully understand your financial picture, you’re negotiating without the full story. They walk through real client scenarios, including undisclosed retirement accounts, missing financial documents, and investment portfolios with hidden tax consequences. These are the kinds of details that can completely change the outcome of a settlement—and they’re often missed. This conversation explains the difference between collecting documents and actually verifying them, why incomplete or outdated information leads to costly decisions, and how financial clarity creates confidence during negotiation. You’ll also learn where attorneys, financial planners, and other professionals fit into the process—and why financial preparation must come first. The bottom line: financial discovery is not a technical step. It is the foundation of every financial decision in divorce. If you’re considering divorce, in the middle of the process, or preparing for negotiation, this episode will help you understand what needs to happen before any agreements are made. Start with clarity before making decisions that impact your financial future. Learn more or begin with a free Divorce Financial Assessment:https://mydivorcesolution.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Children don’t experience divorce through court documents or financial agreements. They experience it through tone, tension, and the daily communication between their parents. And when that communication stays reactive, unclear, or emotionally charged, children carry that instability with them. In this episode of We Chat Divorce, Karen Chellew and Catherine Shanahan sit down with family law attorneys Elle Barr and Rebecca Perra from OurFamilyWizard to discuss one of the most important — and often overlooked — factors affecting children after divorce: parental conflict. Drawing on decades of family law experience and research like the ACEs (Adverse Childhood Experiences) study, this conversation explores why unmanaged conflict between parents can have lasting emotional and health consequences for children. But there is good news: conflict can be reduced when parents use the right systems, tools, and communication structures. You’ll learn how co-parenting platforms like OurFamilyWizard help parents: Reduce emotional conflict in communication Create accountability in co-parenting decisions Track shared child expenses clearly Eliminate misunderstandings about schedules and reimbursements Protect children from adult financial stress You’ll also hear why financial clarity — understanding expenses, support, and shared responsibilities — is critical to building a sustainable co-parenting plan. This episode is essential listening for parents navigating divorce, co-parenting challenges, or ongoing communication struggles with a former spouse. Because divorce doesn’t have to damage children. Conflict does — and conflict can be reduced. Links: https://mydivorcesolution.com/kids-travel-expenses/ ELLE BARR https://www.ourfamilywizard.com/author/elle-barr REBECCA PERRA https://www.ourfamilywizard.com/author/rebecca-perra Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Real Estate in Divorce: Selling, Buying, and Financial Risks Hosts: Karen Chellew, Legal Liaison & Co-Founder, My Divorce Solution Catherine Shanahan, CDFA & Co-Founder, My Divorce Solution In Part 2 of this conversation on real estate and divorce, Karen and Catherine focus on what happens when real decisions are made—buying property, selling the marital home, or dividing proceeds. While these steps may feel like progress during a difficult time, they can create unexpected financial risks if the details aren’t fully understood. Through real client scenarios, they explain why clauses written into real estate contracts may not actually protect you in divorce and why agreements like indemnification don’t always provide the security people expect. Risks of buying property before your divorce is finalized Why realtor clauses may not protect you in a divorce Key considerations when selling the marital home Why splitting proceeds too early can create problems The limits of indemnification in divorce agreements Real estate decisions during divorce aren’t just legal or emotional—they’re financial risk decisions. Before buying, selling, or signing anything, it’s important to understand ownership, liability, and how the transaction could impact your final settlement. If you want verified numbers and a clear strategy before negotiating property division, learn more about the MDS Divorce Financial Portrait™ at:MyDivorceSolution.com Part 1 of this episode covers the foundational concepts behind real estate in divorce, including the difference between the deed, mortgage, and promissory note, and why understanding those documents matters before making any decisions. Episode OverviewWhat You’ll LearnKey TakeawayResourcesListen to Part 1 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When to Sell, When to Wait, and Why “Feeling Protected” Isn’t the Same as Being Protected Hosts: Karen Chellew (Legal Liaison & Co-Founder, My Divorce Solution) + Catherine Shanahan (Divorce Financial Specialist, CDFA & Co-Founder, My Divorce Solution) Real estate is often the biggest (and most emotionally charged) asset in a divorce — and it’s where rushed decisions can create long-term financial risk. In this episode, Karen and Catherine break down the real meaning of “protected” when you’re selling, refinancing, buying, or co-owning property during divorce. They explain the critical difference between being on the note, the mortgage/deed of trust, and the deed — and why misunderstanding those documents can leave your credit, liability, and future borrowing power exposed even if your divorce agreement says you’re “off the hook.” You’ll also hear real-life scenarios from recent clients: the spouse who didn’t know they were still on the mortgage, the hidden HELOC that sat unresolved for 20 years, and the buyer who thought a “divorce clause” in a purchase contract would protect him (it didn’t). The core message is simple: real estate decisions in divorce are financial risk decisions — and clarity is what actually protects you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Divorce is not just emotional. It’s economic. In this powerful episode of the We Chat Divorce, Karen and Catherine sit down with Emily Pollock, partner at Donohoe Talbert LLP and one of Forbes Advisor’s Top 10 Divorce Attorneys in New York City. With over 15 years of experience in high-net-worth matrimonial law, Emily brings a rare combination of legal precision and psychological awareness to the conversation. Together, they unpack: Why divorce creates a financial gap — especially for women The truth about modern maintenance (alimony) laws Why “lifetime support” is largely a thing of the past What happens when wealth looks bigger than it actually is The danger of entering mediation or litigation unprepared Why your attorney’s job is to put you in your best position legally — and why that requires financial clarity first This conversation is honest, strategic, and deeply grounding. About Our Guest Emily Pollock is a partner at Donohoe Talbert LLP in New York City. She focuses on high-net-worth divorce, complex asset division, prenuptial and postnuptial agreements, and cases involving businesses, trusts, and international financial structures. She was recently named one of Forbes Advisor’s Top 10 Divorce Attorneys in NYC. She is licensed in New York. Website: https://donohoetalbert.com/attorneys/emily-s-pollock/ At My Divorce Solution, we believe divorce is financial first. Before you hire an attorney.Before you agree to mediation.Before you react emotionally. You need verified clarity. The MDS Financial Portrait™ gives you: A full inventory of assets and debts Lifestyle analysis Support calculations Settlement scenarios Organized financial disclosures A structured plan for negotiation When you walk into an attorney’s office prepared, everything changes. Start with clarity. 👉 Take the Free Divorce Financial Assessment at MyDivorceSolution.com 👉 Join the MDS Community for expert guidance and live Q&As You do not need to decide everything today. You are allowed to gather information. You are allowed to prepare before reacting. Protect your peace. Let knowledge be your power. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Many couples going through divorce say the same thing: “We’re amicable. We just want to get this done.” In this episode of Divorce Explored, a series within the We Chat Divorce podcast, Karen Chellew and Catherine Shanahan unpack what amicable actually means—and why emotional calm is not the same as financial clarity. With California introducing a new joint divorce petition option in 2026, couples may be able to start the divorce process together with less initial friction. But as Karen and Catherine explain, this procedural change does not reduce the financial work required to reach a fair, sustainable settlement. This conversation breaks down the real differences between contested vs. uncontested divorce, the hidden costs of rushing to agreement, and the financial red flags that quietly turn “easy divorces” into expensive ones. If you’re considering an uncontested or joint filing—and want to stay amicable without sacrificing your financial future—this episode is essential listening. The difference between being emotionally amicable and financially transparent Why agreeing quickly can be more expensive than slowing down What California’s 2026 joint petition option actually changes—and what it doesn’t Common financial “agreement killers” in uncontested divorces Why keeping the house without a budget often backfires How missing documents, unclear income, or mixed business expenses derail settlements Why financial clarity can prevent conflict—not create it What it truly means to compare assets fairly (cash vs. retirement vs. property) Clarity is not conflict. Asking questions does not make a divorce adversarial—it makes it informed. Uncontested divorce still requires full financial discovery. Skipping this step creates costly mistakes. Joint petitions may lower emotional tension, but they don’t reduce financial responsibility. Rushing creates regret. Many uncontested divorces become contested after new information emerges. If you can’t explain your agreement in plain English, you’re not ready to sign it. You may need more structure and support if: You can’t access financial statements Income is variable, unclear, or disputed Business and personal spending are mixed New debt or unexplained transfers appear One spouse is afraid to ask financial questions The plan relies on “it will all work out” At My Divorce Solution, we help individuals and couples get financially organized before legal negotiations begin—so decisions are based on verified data, realistic budgets, and long-term stability. Our MDS Financial Portrait™ helps clients: Organize and verify financial documents Understand true cash flow and post-divorce budgets Model settlement scenarios before committing Avoid expensive renegotiations and legal waste Learn more at mydivorcesolution.com Considering an uncontested or amicable divorce Curious about California’s 2026 joint petition option Afraid of making a financial mistake you can’t undo Trying to stay cooperative without giving away too much Wanting clarity before talking to attorneys We Chat Divorce is the #1 podcast for financial divorce preparation, hosted by Karen Chellew and Catherine Shanahan—co-founders of My Divorce Solution. Each episode delivers honest, grounded conversations about the financial realities of divorce so listeners can move forward with confidence, not fear. Subscribe, share, and leave a review if this episode helped you. Clarity changes everything. What You’ll LearnKey TakeawaysFinancial Red Flags to Slow DownHow My Divorce Solution HelpsListen If You Are:About the Podcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When people hear “forensic accountant” during divorce, expectations run high. Many assume it means hidden money will automatically be uncovered or that every financial mystery will be solved. The reality is more nuanced—and far more strategic. In this episode, we sit down with Sara Nanchanatt, founder of SN Forensics, to demystify what forensic accounting actually does in divorce, when it’s worth the investment, and when it’s not. Sara brings clarity to one of the most misunderstood (and expensive) parts of the divorce process—helping listeners understand how to make informed, cost-effective decisions instead of emotionally driven ones. This conversation is especially important if you’re navigating a divorce involving business ownership, complex finances, cash-based income, or concerns about missing information. What We Cover in This Episode What a forensic accountant really does in divorce—and what they can’t do Why not every divorce requires forensic accounting How attorneys often default to “we need a forensic” (and why that matters) When business valuations make financial sense—and when they don’t The red flags forensic accountants actually look for Why “cash businesses” and “hidden assets” aren’t always traceable The difference between consulting, expert witness, and rebuttal roles How limited-scope forensic work can save thousands What questions to ask before hiring a forensic accountant How preparation and document review can prevent wasted legal and expert fees Key Takeaways for Listeners ✔️ Forensic accounting is a tool, not a guarantee ✔️ Spending money without a clear scope often leads to frustration and disappointment ✔️ The goal isn’t to “prove wrongdoing”—it’s to understand the numbers well enough to make informed decisions ✔️ Preparation before engaging experts can dramatically reduce costs ✔️ A strong divorce team communicates clearly and works collaboratively Why This Conversation Matters Divorce already brings emotional overload. Adding unnecessary experts—without understanding the likely outcome—can escalate costs and stress without improving results. This episode reinforces a core MDS belief: Fear is expensive. Clarity is not. Understanding when forensic accounting adds value—and when it doesn’t—puts control back where it belongs: with you. About Our Guest Sara Nanchanatt is a forensic accountant and business valuation expert with experience spanning Charles River Associates, FINRA, and complex financial investigations across multiple industries. Through SN Forensics, she works with individuals and divorce teams to uncover financial truth while prioritizing efficiency, transparency, and realistic outcomes. 🔗 Learn more: https://www.snforensics.com (Free consultations available when referred through My Divorce Solution) About My Divorce Solution At My Divorce Solution, we help individuals prepare financially before decisions are made—so strategy replaces reaction. Our Financial Portrait™ gives you verified numbers, clarity around your marital estate, and a roadmap for negotiation that saves time, money, and emotional energy. Take the Free Divorce Financial Assessment Join the MDS Community for expert guidance and live Q&A Listen to more episodes of We Chat Divorce Questions or topic requests? Email: [email protected] 🎧 Subscribe, rate, and share this episode with someone who needs clarity💬 Remember: You don’t have to decide everything today. You’re allowed to gather information first. Protect your peace. Let knowledge be your power. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode of We Chat Divorce, Karen Chellew, Legal Liaison, and Catherine Shanahan, CDFA®, sit down with Jody Bruns, founder of the Certified Divorce Lending Professional (CDLP®) certification and the creator of the divorce mortgage planning profession. The conversation focuses on one of the most expensive and misunderstood parts of divorce: the marital home and the mortgage attached to it. With interest rates, refinancing challenges, and equity decisions shaping modern divorce settlements, this episode breaks down why housing decisions made without preparation often lead to permanent financial consequences. In This Episode, We Cover Why you cannot simply remove a spouse from a mortgage after divorce The difference between a traditional mortgage lender and a Certified Divorce Lending Professional (CDLP®) How refinancing really works — including escrow accounts, taxes, insurance, and closing costs Why alimony and child support payment structure matters for mortgage approval What lenders require to use support income for qualification The financial risks of keeping the house versus selling it How capital gains taxes and filing status changes impact long-term equity Why mortgage assumptions are complex, limited, and not guaranteed The dangers of quitclaim deeds and poorly written settlement language How title changes after divorce can expose homeowners to liens, probate issues, and loss of control Key Takeaway You may want to keep the house. You may even be able to afford it. That does not mean you can qualify to keep it — or that it’s the smartest financial decision. Without coordinated legal, financial, and mortgage planning, housing decisions in divorce often become the most costly mistakes people make. About Our Guest Jody Bruns has over 35 years of experience in mortgage and finance and is nationally recognized for her work at the intersection of divorce, real estate, and lending. Through her certification program and professional training, she helps divorcing homeowners and divorce professionals navigate housing decisions with clarity and strategy. 🔗 Websites DivorceLendingAssociation.com / JodyBruns.com 🔗 Social Instagram: @JodyBrunsOfficial LinkedIn: jodylbruns Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

AI can explain what a QDRO is — but it cannot protect your financial future. In this episode of We Chat Divorce, Karen Chellew and Catherine Shanahan break down why relying on AI for retirement division in divorce leads to costly, irreversible mistakes. They explain what QDROs actually do, what AI misses, and why verified plan rules, tax impact, and liquidity matter — especially in grey divorce. If retirement accounts are part of your divorce, this conversation will change how you approach every decision. MDS Financial Portrait™ Free MDS Community Source article: https://www.thestreet.com/retirement/gray-divorce-shifts-retirement-one-legal-document-saves-your-401k Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this powerful episode of We Chat Divorce, we sit down with Karen McMahon, high-conflict divorce strategist, certified divorce coach, and founder of Journey Beyond Divorce. Karen shares her deeply personal story of surviving a prolonged, high-conflict divorce—and how that experience became the foundation of her life’s work helping others navigate divorce with emotional clarity and confidence. Together, we explore what it really means to “keep your side of the street clean” during divorce, why reacting emotionally is one of the most expensive mistakes people make, and how staying calm, clear, and confident directly impacts both your legal outcomes and financial future. This episode is essential listening for anyone feeling overwhelmed, triggered, or stuck in defense mode during divorce—especially in high-conflict situations. What You’ll Learn in This Episode Why high-conflict divorce often makes the calmer spouse look like the problem The true meaning of “keeping your side of the street clean” How emotional dysregulation leads to rushed, costly decisions Why mindset, emotional regulation, and boundaries are foundational—not optional How to pause before responding to texts, emails, or demands Why financial clarity and emotional clarity must work together How inner work protects your children and breaks generational cycles Why a strong settlement alone does not guarantee peace or freedom How to reclaim your confidence during—and after—divorce Resources Mentioned Journey Beyond Divorce Website: https://www.jbddivorcesupport.com Journey Beyond Divorce Podcast (425+ episodes) Rapid Relief Call with a Journey Beyond Divorce coach: https://www.rapidreliefcall.com At My Divorce Solution, we see this every day:People don’t make poor financial decisions because they’re irresponsible—they make them because they’re overwhelmed, reactive, and emotionally flooded. That’s why we believe divorce preparation must include both financial clarity and emotional grounding. When you understand your numbers and regulate your responses, you stop reacting—and start leading. If you’re navigating divorce and feel like you’re constantly on defense, you don’t need to decide everything today. Ready for Your Next Step? 👉 Start with clarity.👉 Get organized.👉 Protect your future. Visit MyDivorceSolution.com to learn how the MDS Financial Portrait™ helps you understand your full financial picture before decisions get expensive. And be sure to join the MDS Community—a safe, judgment-free space for trusted resources, expert guidance, and live support. About the Guest Karen McMahon is a high-conflict divorce strategist, certified divorce coach, and founder of Journey Beyond Divorce. She is also the host of the Journey Beyond Divorce podcast and co-author of Stepping Out of Chaos: Turning Pain into Possibility. Karen has supported thousands of individuals worldwide in navigating divorce with clarity, confidence, and personal growth—helping them move beyond survival mode and into empowered decision-making. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

High-conflict divorces thrive on chaos. In this episode of We Chat Divorce, hosts Karen Chellew and Catherine Shanahan sit down with divorce strategist and coach Courtney Harkness to explain why treating divorce like a business deal—not an emotional battleground—can dramatically shift power, protect assets, and preserve peace. Courtney, creator of the Divorce Is a Business Deal framework, shares how successful professionals can stop reacting and start leading their divorce with strategy. Drawing from her own experience co-founding a private-equity-backed company and navigating a high-conflict divorce, Courtney breaks down the three-phase approach she uses with clients: Stabilize, Strategize, Execute. You’ll learn why emotional stabilization must come first, especially when dealing with narcissistic or high-conflict spouses; how reacting fuels conflict and legal costs; and why “no sudden moves” is one of the most powerful rules in divorce. The conversation also explores why rushing to hire an attorney without financial clarity often escalates conflict—and how preparation saves time, money, and long-term regret. Karen and Catherine connect Courtney’s framework directly to the My Divorce Solution methodology, emphasizing the importance of verified financial data, lifestyle analysis, and scenario planning before negotiations begin. Together, they explain how clarity replaces fear, how strategy changes leverage, and why winning in divorce isn’t “beating” your spouse—it’s getting out with your future intact. Key Topics Covered: High-conflict divorce strategy Divorce and narcissistic dynamics Stabilize, Strategize, Execute framework Financial preparation before legal action Why reacting is costly—and preparation is powerful How to protect assets, peace, and decision-making capacity If you’re navigating a high-conflict or high-stakes divorce and feel stuck in reaction mode, this episode offers a grounded, strategic path forward. Next Steps: Start with clarity. Take the free Divorce Financial Assessment or learn more about the MDS Financial Portrait™ at MyDivorceSolution.com. Follow Courtney Harkness at DivorceStrategy.com and on Instagram @divorce.strategy. Protect your peace. Let knowledge be your power. divorce, high conflict divorce, narcissistic spouse, narcissist divorce, divorce strategy, divorce coach, divorce support, divorce advice, divorce tips, divorce planning, divorce preparation, divorce negotiation, divorce settlement, divorce mediation, divorce attorney, legal divorce advice, divorce financial planning, divorce finances, divorce money, financial clarity, CDFA, certified divorce financial analyst, marital assets, asset division, hidden assets, spousal support, alimony, child support, custody conflict, co-parenting with a narcissist, emotional abuse, financial abuse, trauma bond, stop reacting, no sudden moves, divorce is a business deal, business approach to divorce, leverage in divorce, protect your assets, protect your peace, women and divorce, men and divorce, high net worth divorce, complex divorce, divorce discovery, divorce documents, divorce checklist, we chat divorce, my divorce solution, karen chellew, catherine shanahan, courtney harkness, divorce strategy masterclass Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Most people would never start a cross-country trip without a map — yet that’s exactly how divorce begins for millions of people every year. In this episode of We Chat Divorce, Karen Chellew and Catherine Shanahan break down the concept almost no one talks about early enough: the financial divorce roadmap. Divorce is not just emotional — it is one of the largest financial transactions most people will ever make. Without a clear financial roadmap, decisions get made from fear, pressure, and incomplete information — and those decisions can cost you tens of thousands of dollars over time. Karen and Catherine explain what a real financial roadmap looks like, how it reduces conflict and legal fees, and why clarity — not speed — leads to better outcomes. If you’re feeling overwhelmed, rushed, or pressured to “just get it done,” this episode will help you pause, regain control, and make decisions that actually protect your future. What You’ll Learn in This Episode Why divorce requires a financial roadmap, not just legal steps The most common “detours” that quietly destroy long-term financial security Why settling before accounts are verified is one of the biggest mistakes people make How emotions like fear, guilt, and urgency drive bad financial decisions The difference between reacting and negotiating with confidence Why most divorce conflict is actually about uncertainty, not money How a roadmap allows you to pivot when things change — without panicking Key Takeaways Divorce without verified financial information is gambling with your future Legal progress does not equal financial protection A roadmap is a decision tool, not a spreadsheet Preparation reduces conflict, legal fees, and regret You have the right to pause when information is missing Red Flags You’re Divorcing Without a Map You’re negotiating without seeing full statements You’re keeping expensive assets without knowing the true monthly cost You’re relying on verbal numbers or assumptions You don’t know what you need to live each month Your plan is “I just hope this works out” At My Divorce Solution, we call this roadmap the MDS Financial Portrait™ — a verified, structured view of your full financial landscape before permanent decisions are made. Because fear is expensive. Clarity is not. This episode is educational only and does not provide legal or tax advice. Always consult your professional team for guidance specific to your situation. Start with clarity: take the free Divorce Financial Assessment Share this episode with someone who’s starting divorce without realizing they need a map Join the MDS Community for expert guidance and live Q&A support Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices