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Show Notes: In this episode, Helen Panos, owner of Dynamis Learning in Atlanta, GA, and Heather Wright, a Master IEP Coach, share a wealth of knowledge and guidance on the important topics of Individualized Education Programs (IEPs) and 504 plans for students with disabilities. These passionate advocates offer a comprehensive overview of these plans, emphasizing the critical role that parents play in their children's educational journey. Throughout the discussion, the conversation underscores the need for a collaborative approach, emphasizing that the school system, educators, and parents should work as a team to ensure that each student's unique strengths and weaknesses are recognized and addressed. Additionally, they highlight the importance of early intervention, early identification of potential issues, and ongoing communication to foster a supportive educational environment. Overall, this podcast interview provides an essential resource for parents, teachers, and anyone interested in the world of special education. The conversation highlights the importance of advocating for every child's unique needs and creating an inclusive educational environment through collaboration and communication. Connect with Helen: WEBSITE: https://www.dynamislearningacademy.com/ FREE Advocacy Brochure: https://bit.ly/40vheZg PODCAST: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/smart-parents-successful-students/id1581128395 INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/dynamislearningacademy/ FACEBOOK: https://www.facebook.com/dynamislearningacademy YOUTUBE: https://youtube.com/channel/UC-DBFY2KmyXii8Zp41R0RbQ Connect with Heather: WEBSITE: http://www.heatherwrightconsultant.com INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/heatherwrightconsultant FACEBOOK: https://www.facebook.com/heatherwrightconsultant Are you getting our newsletter? If not, subscribe at https://waterprairie.com/newsletter Support our podcast and help us share more incredible stories by making a donation at Buy Me A Coffee. Your contribution makes a significant impact in bringing these stories to light. Thank you for your support! https://BuyMeACoffee.com/waterprairie Music Used: “LazyDay” by Audionautix is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ Artist: http://audionautix.com/

Show Notes:

In this episode, Helen Panos, owner of Dynamis Learning in Atlanta, GA, and Heather Wright, a Master IEP Coach, share a wealth of knowledge and guidance on the important topics of Individualized Education Programs (IEPs) and 504 plans for students with disabilities. These passionate advocates offer a comprehensive overview of these plans, emphasizing the critical role that parents play in their children’s educational journey. After hearing their discussion, you’ll be a pro at understanding the difference between IEPs vs 504 Plans!

Throughout the discussion, the conversation underscores the need for a collaborative approach, emphasizing that the school system, educators, and parents should work as a team to ensure that each student’s unique strengths and weaknesses are recognized and addressed. Additionally, they highlight the importance of early intervention, early identification of potential issues, and ongoing communication to foster a supportive educational environment.

Overall, this podcast interview provides an essential resource for parents, teachers, and anyone interested in the world of special education. The conversation highlights the importance of advocating for every child’s unique needs and creating an inclusive educational environment through collaboration and communication.

📣 Connect with Helen:

• WEBSITE: https://www.dynamislearningacademy.com/
• FREE Advocacy Brochure: https://bit.ly/40vheZg
• PODCAST: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/smart-parents-successful-students/id1581128395
• INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/dynamislearningacademy/
• FACEBOOK: https://www.facebook.com/dynamislearningacademy
• YOUTUBE: https://youtube.com/channel/UC-DBFY2KmyXii8Zp41R0RbQ

📣 Connect with Heather:

• WEBSITE: http://www.heatherwrightconsultant.com
• INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/heatherwrightconsultant
• FACEBOOK: https://www.facebook.com/heatherwrightconsultant

Are you getting our newsletter? If not, subscribe at https://waterprairie.com/newsletter

👉 Support our podcast and help us share more incredible stories by making a donation at Buy Me A Coffee. Your contribution makes a significant impact in bringing these stories to light. Thank you for your support!

https://BuyMeACoffee.com/waterprairie

Music Used:

“LazyDay” by Audionautix is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/

Artist: http://audionautix.com/

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Meet Today’s Guests:

 

 

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Episode #79: IEPs vs 504 Plans: Understanding the Differences

(Recorded August 9, 2023)

Full Transcript of Interview:

Tonya: All right. Today I have the pleasure of hosting two important guests, Helen Panos and Heather Wright with me, and they are here to shed some light on an important topic, and that is understanding 504 plans and IEPs and the similarities and differences between them. So Helen and Heather, welcome to Water Prairie.

Heather: Thank you for having me. I’m so excited to be here today.

Helen: Yes, thank you for having me as well.

Tonya: So I’ve, I’ve been looking forward to this because this is a topic that I’ve been wanting to bring on since we started the podcast. So it’s been over a year and a half now. And we did have, um, the Nicole Schlechter came on and she’s the IEP Mom.

So we did talk a little bit, um, early on with that. So, and, and those that are listening, I will link this in the, in the show notes if you want to go back and hear what she had to share, but, um, but we didn’t get into really. a deep dive on comparing the two plans and I think a lot of parents are not sure exactly what it is.

Before we jump into the topic, this season we’re playing a game with all of our guests called Two Truths and a Lie and I’ve asked Helen and Heather if they would bring their facts or pseudo facts with them and they both have agreed to play with me. So, um, I’m going to start actually with Heather and ask her if she’ll share her facts with you first and as you’re listening I want to try to figure out which one is a lie of the three.

After you listen to the episode, go and look at Instagram or Twitter and leave your guess in the comments. Or if you’re watching on YouTube, you can leave it in the comments on the video. But listen to the whole episode first. So, Heather, what are your three facts that you have for us?

Heather: So, we’ll go with, um, my background was I was a middle school special education teacher, and mostly math, and I loved teaching middle school math because I actually loved being a middle school kid. Um, I also say special education chose me.

Tonya: So, Helen, can you top that one?

Helen: I’ll try. Um, let’s see. So, um, I was chosen to go to Plains, Georgia to work with 14 other, um, let’s see, Georgia educators. And I met, actually, while I was there I met, uh, President, uh, Jimmy Carter and his wife. And then, another is, I was in the opening ceremonies of the 1996 Olympics. I was actually on the field performing. And the last is that I am a triplet. So one of those is a lie.

Tonya: All right, so listeners, take your guests, see if you can figure them out. And then, um, and then leave your comment a week after we post this, we’ll come back and we’ll put the answer so you can check your, your work there.

I invited Helen and Heather because, um, Helen has an extensive background and experience as a 504 chair and Heather is a master IEP coach. So I thought this, this was the perfect pair to come in and to help us understand about what, what a 504 is, what an IEP is, what the differences and listeners, if you’re outside of the U.S., these plans won’t apply to you, but you may have something similar to that. So, um, so listen through. It may give you some ideas of things that you can ask your, your own school for your child or the authorities that, that you’re working with, but at least give you an idea of what some of the things that are happening in the U.S. are, but for those that are in the U. S. This is, this is specifically for you to understand more what’s happening. And I know I get a lot of questions trying to understand the differences, the laws around them and all. So I think this is a great topic for us to pull in. And my goal today is that our listeners can understand the differences between the two, the criteria, some of the protections, and even the administration of the plans.

So the questions I’m going to be asking will be kind of geared toward those things. And um, so with three of us, it’s a little bit different in this. So listeners, you’re just going to have to. to, to stick with us as, as we try to do like a ping pong here between, between everyone. So let’s start with, uh, just a baseline.

Could, could, could one or both of you jump in and explain just briefly what is a 504 plan and what is an IEP?

Helen: A 504 plan is out of the section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 19, I think it’s 73. Is that right? I think it’s 73. It’s way back in the day. And really this wasn’t even being used for a long time because I was an educator for 25 years and I’d say in the last 10 years you’re really Seeing a lot of 504 plans.

Um, Especially because of a diagnosis like ADHD that’s become very popular these days. So Um, the office of civil rights is the one that actually is the federal agency that kind of monitors a section 504 compliance And it’s also the responsibility of each district to ensure that the 504 is compliant and being monitored.

So the office of the OCR, the Office of Civil Rights monitors it. It comes down to there’s a 504 coordinator in the school system. They oversee it all. They have meetings because there’s usually I say usually because there’s been some changes since Covid. But usually there’s a 504 chair that oversees it in a school within the school systems.

It should be a 504 chair in the school. That oversees it, um, and basically it allows accommodations if you have a medical diagnosis or you know, anything, um, physical, ADHD, anxiety, those are the popular ones, uh, dyslexia, to allow your child to have accommodations if the need is shown, meaning it’s shown in the school.

Um, not just at home. Okay. So, um, because the teachers are having the meeting. They’re part of it. Parent comes in, teachers have the meeting with the 504 chair. And those are done annually. Okay. Now, you do have to get a re evaluation every three years as well. So, then you have to kind of go back to your pediatrician or your doctor to, to then do a re evaluation.

But you can always add in a diagnosis, you know, anytime, really. I’ve had multiple father of four meetings in a year sometimes for one child. So, that’s pretty much it.

Tonya: We’re going to talk a little deeper into it too, but that kind of, so, so parents listening, that’s, that’s the 504. Heather, can you fill in what an IEP is?

Heather: Yes, I’d love to. So an IEP, um, you’ll hear it as Individualized Education Plan or Program. Depending on where you’re at, the P kind of changes, but it’s all the same thing. Individualized Education Plan or Program. And what it is, is the document that outlines the specific supports. And methods in which a child that has an eligibility for special education under the 13 eligibility, one of the 13 eligibility criterias, um, that’s under IDEA law, um, you get determined that you’re eligible for special education and then a plan that IEP is developed.

Supports accommodations that supports individualized instruction or, um, differentiated instruction, and that’s really the biggest difference between the 504 plan and special education and IEP. So, with the 504 plan, you can get accommodations to support your learning, your social, behavioral, anything really.

With the accommodation side with an IEP you get the accommodations, but you also have specially designed instruction So it is provided by a special education teacher and they individualize your learning to meet your unique needs.

Tonya: Okay, so before we go any further Helen you had mentioned that dyslexia would come under 504 I’m assuming not for every child that has dyslexia though because some may require specialized.

Helen: Yeah, there’s a fine line and maybe Heather can say where that fine line is, but that’s correct. Uh, not every dyslexia is a 504, it could be an IEP, you know, because maybe a lot of times when you get a diagnosis, you usually have something else as well. They usually come in pairs. Um, so if you have ADHD, you might have executive functioning. If you have dyslexia, it might be something else as well. So you’re correct about that. Not all. 504s are IEP, or um, dyslexia is 504s.

Tonya: Okay. Okay. So, Helen, as a former 504 chair, could you tell us about the students that would typically benefit from a 504 plan? So we just talked about a couple of them there. Um, can you go, go a little, little deeper on that?

Helen: Sure. I’d say even, okay, so I think there’s a misconception out there that maybe gifted kids wouldn’t have a 504 plan, but actually to the contrary, you’ll see a dual classification is what we call it, where a kid could be I, uh, special ed classified and a gifted classified child.

And my guess is that’s where you’re going to see a 504. You could see an IEP instead, but if it’s not too severe and they can, it fits under a 504, you could get accommodations for the ADHD. Like extended time, small group testing. Um, sit, sit in the front of the room, you know, all these kind of things. Um, ADHD is still number one, even though anxiety is probably running right up there next to it now, I hate to say, then it may need to go to an IEP because they get more specialized attention and instruction.

They’re not going to do that with a 504 and a 504 plan. It’s just the teachers, the typical classroom teachers are going to get your 504 plan with accommodations and they have to follow them by law. There’s no special teacher coming in to assist, and Heather can talk more about that. Uh, like you see in an IEP.

Tonya: Would that also include a child who is, um, maybe diabetic that just needs medication during the day?

Helen: That would be a 504. That was the number one thing that came out. I think strongly with the 504 plans was Diabetics right and then it’s now You know molded over toward add in now ADHD and dyslexia and all these other things anxiety. I’ve seen oh, I’ve had to look up some things. I never even knew existed. A lot of things out there.

Tonya: Would it also include a student who has a temporary need such as a broken leg or something like that? Would that also be a 504?

Helen: Uh, you know, they try not to do it. And if we think the child is not going to be, and it’s up to the parent kind of there. If we don’t think the child’s going to be in a cast for very long, or now that they’re all going a lot more, uh, computerized, they don’t have to write as much, right?

If it’s a broken arm. They usually work it out with the nurse because the nurse will get a plan as well, a health plan, right? So usually they can work it out. Parents should stay on top of that because if they see it’s getting too difficult for the child Yes, I’d go with a 504 so you could be protected.

Heather: I also wanted to take you back on that too, is that even with a 504 plan you still can get have access to related services So That could be special education, and I say special ed transportation because that’s what it’s called, like, when we’re documenting it, but transportation, if you need it for a child with a 504, can still be included on a 504 plan.

You don’t have to have an IEP in order to get transportation, you know. I’m, again, I’m calling it special ed transportation, but transportation can be added as a related service into a 504.

Helen: And homebound, homebound services as well.

Heather: Also, a tutor coming out. It could also be the other related services could be OT like occupational therapy I have a client right now that has a 504 plan that has OT consult and written into their 504 plan with transportation as well So you can get some supports That maybe an IEP would provide through a 504 You just have to have the data to back that up and support why the kid requires that level of support So I just wanted to interject on that too because a lot of the times parents I think, well, I can just get accommodations, and I can’t get any other additional supports, but it could be related services on top of those accommodations as well.

Helen: Right. Okay. Good. I do want to add while I’m thinking about it, uh, Tonya, that if people, uh, if a child loses their accommodations over time, and that is the need is not being shown any anymore. I’ve heard people being told, oh, he’s not a D H D anymore and we don’t have a 5 0 4 anymore, and I’m going, well, how did he lose the A D H D?

Right diagnosis. You don’t just lose that. So I want to make that clear, because I’ve heard that recently with one of our kids that we’re tutoring. Um, and on top of that, you can leave a, I always say you should leave a 504 open whether it has accommodations or not. And I’ve seen 504 with no accommodations, and we still have to have an annual meeting to check in on that child.

If you close that 504, now you’ve got to start all over again.

Tonya: Right. Now, we had been told that, both my children were on IEPs, but we had been told that same advice, to make sure that we always kept it open, even if they, if they had a year where everything was going well, because it’s easier to keep it going than to start it all over again.

So that’s, that’s good, good advice there. So, um, so Heather, as an IEP specialist, could you describe the students that the IEP would typically be recommended for?

Heather: Sure. Um, really, it all comes down to educational impact. So a child that has ADHD, is medically diagnosed with anxiety, might not require specialized instruction with an IEP, right?

They might need accommodations. But where the fine line goes is where’s the educational impact. And I say that, I didn’t say academic impact. I said educational impact. Educational impact is not just. reading, math, A’s, B’s, C’s. It affects social emotional behavioral as well. So yes, it could be your grades.

And yes, it could be how bad you do on your SATs. But if you have a disability or a struggle that is academically, excuse me, educationally impacting you. So whether that is academic, social, emotional, behavioral. and it requires you to need specially designed instructions, then that is when you would look at an IEP.

So, for instance, if a kid has ADHD, and maybe they’re medicated or not medicated, and maybe they only need some accommodations, but then the workload gets harder, but they’re also struggling to make friends. Maybe it’s impacting them, and they’re behaviorally getting in trouble. Then it’s, hmm. Now their ADHD is getting in the way of them behaviorally, so we need to see is there instruction that needs to be taught to this child in order to move him forward or her forward, right?

Right. So, it could be that. It could be we’re seeing a lot of the anxiety and the invisible disabilities of anxiety, depression, and a lot of kids are masking. They don’t want to show. You know, I don’t want to show that I have this going on and I hear it all the time. Well, they have straight A’s That doesn’t mean that they’re not being impacted by their depression, their anxiety, their learning disability.

So, um, I did want to mention that there is a misconception in the community too that even though you might be medically diagnosed from a pediatrician, from a psychiatrist, with something Autism, ADHD, they cannot diagnose an IEP. So just because you have a medical diagnosis, doesn’t mean you’re just going to take it to the school and poof, here’s your IEP.

The IEP team, and I think we’re going to talk about that a little bit later, um, determines if they meet the criteria under one of the 13 criteria. So intellectual disability, learning disability, autism, traumatic brain injury, visual impairment, deaf and hard of hearing, there’s 13. So you have to look, do they meet those criteria, and is there educational impact, and is there a need for a specially designed instruction.

So that’s really what we look at when we’re looking at does a child need an IEP. Um, some of our kids come with a 504 first and they realize that the accommodations just aren’t enough. Just having small group testing or just having extended time isn’t enough. Just having those, you know, check ins with a teacher isn’t enough.

Their executive functioning skills are struggling that they don’t even know how to ask and how to advocate and how to use their time wisely and how to use the headphones and all the things so they have to be taught how to use those skills and that’s the instruction that um, an IEP would, would give you.

Tonya: So we, we’ve mentioned executive functioning skills a couple times now and back in episode 71, if you’re listening and you’re not familiar with what we’re talking about, we had an executive functioning coach on to talk specifically about that. So mark that to go back and listen to, to kind of fill in the blank there.

But I did have a question about that because having, having a child who, who struggled with executive functioning skills, that was always off the table. for us. And so it sounds like the way that both of you are talking that at least where you are in the country that that is being recognized a little bit more.

Can you, and, and we hadn’t talked about this ahead of time, but so many kids do, are, are affected by weak executive functioning skills, especially by the time they get to middle school. Um, so does that fall under 504, under IEP, or maybe a combination?

Heather: So in my terms of when I, executive functioning isn’t going to be an eligibility criteria for special education, but it comes into accommodations that can be given to a child to address those executive functioning deficits.

Or it could be goals and objectives that an IEP provides that are monitored on a consistent basis. You’re teaching the skills on how to. Right. Plan. How to organize. Organize. How to do all the things. Basically how to live your life every day. Because living your life every day is basically executive functioning.

Yes. It is. You make so many decisions in a day. All right.

Helen: Very important skills to have. Executive functioning.

Heather: If your child is diagnosed or, you know, found eligible and they do struggle with executive functioning skills, which most of our kids in special education, they do. They do. They struggle with organization.

Their backpacks look like the dumpster. You know, you can’t find anything. Their lockers, it’s just awful, right? They can’t remember the third thing you said on a list of, of two, you know? So like, they have to be taught how to do those skills. And that’s where, if your child does have an IEP, the special education teacher or the related services providers can support those deficits and teach the skills.

And scaffold it so that you can build on that, right? We’re not going to say, hey, you need to go into middle school and advocate for yourself when the kid’s like, I don’t even like to raise my hand and say the name, right? You have to teach them that it’s okay and create that environment. So it’s really building on the strengths of the child to work on those deficits through objectives and goals in the IEP.

Accommodations that can be provided in the IEP and the 504 has the accommodation side, but not the goals and objectives side, right?

Tonya: So, so if a child is starting to show that the, the weaker skills that they have are causing them not to be able to reach their academic goals that they have, then it might be that an IEP would come into play, not because of the executive functioning skills, but because of the, they’re, they’re dropping back.

They’re not reaching what they need. And then at that point, that’s when a goal could be written to help strengthen those skills. Is that what you’re saying?

Heather: We could be. And they based that on, you know, classroom observations. They look at data on just classroom assessments, anecdotal, observational, you know, kind of things.

Um, and if you do go with eligibility for special education, you’ll typically go with a comprehensive evaluation where a school psychologist is doing formalized testing and executive functioning is typically part of that. Especially if you are a parent that, you know, your child struggles with planning.

And I’m sure that the teachers know it, too. You address that with the team as a concern, and you say, I am concerned about their planning. They cannot plan to save their life. Like, they couldn’t open a box and get out, you know? You, as a parent, knows your child best. So, if you’re seeing things that are happening at home, it’s still important to bring up those concerns to the school and say, I’m concerned about…

The planning. I’m concerned about their attention. I’m concerned about how they’re processing information. I’m concerned about their reading and address that with the team so that when you’re meeting to potentially go for an IEP or they can do the evaluation process, they’re not leaving anything on the table.

They’re addressing your concerns and seeing if there’s any assessments or tools that can support your child that way.

Tonya: Alright, good. I appreciate you answering that, that, that question. It’s something that, that we don’t always talk about, so it, it helps to kind of clarify, and I’m just going to pick both your brains as, as we’re going through this.

The, um, so I want to talk, I want to switch a little bit now and talk about maybe the criteria for each of the plans. So what are some of the factors that are considered when determining eligibility for a 504 plan? So Helen, I’ll have you answer this one.

Helen: Um, so factors, number one, you always have to have a form from a medical professional or a psychologist.

I’ve seen a lot of psychologicals. People do go to psychologists. One thing I think parents need to be aware of, though, with a psychologist is they’re very lengthy, right? Oh, I’ve seen some really lengthy ones. Um, so psychologists will write down a lot of accommodations, okay? And what most school systems are going to say to that is, Again, it goes back to the need being shown in the classroom and if your child is not showing that need, they’re not going to give you that accommodation more than likely because the 504 chair, if they’re good, they’re listening for, okay, I’ll go around the room and say, okay, math is what’s happening in there.

What’s happening in language arts, what’s happening in, in, you know, social studies and all these. So it could be one class. That, that’s happening and, and maybe not the others. It just, sometimes it depends on how the teachers run in the class too. It, it may be a better fit for that child. And then the following year, you’re like, Hey, wait, he did fine in math and now he’s not doing fine in math.

Tonya: Right. Yeah, so, so it may not have had anything to do with math. It may have been the environment for them.

Helen: Yeah,  it could be the environment helping the child. Um, but definitely, uh, psychologists tend to put a lot of things down. And it’s not, That’s typically not going to go on a 504 plan that many things. Okay, so the big Q is a need has to be shown.

Tonya: How how does that compare to the IEP between the two?

Heather: Yeah, there’s honestly, there’s a big difference between the two. Um, because when you’re looking at special education, you are probably already in a tiered process of interventions. So the school system, the teachers have identified that there is an area of concern.

Maybe it is in an academic area, but it could be social emotional. It doesn’t have to be that the school sees that it could be, you could do a direct parent request at that point as well. So there is. A few different options that parents have that if you’re seeing it, but you’re not the school isn’t saying it then you could do a request and we can talk about that a little bit later.

I don’t want to dive all into giving too much information or overwhelming our listeners. Um, but your child is probably already in a tiered process and receiving interventions. So, a math intervention, a reading intervention, a behavioral intervention, a speech intervention. There’s interventions that are being done.

And what that looks like is if the team is meeting and they’re not making progress with that intervention, then the school team is going to say then there might be something else going on here in terms of a disability that we need to explore. So then they’ll bring the parent in, um, and let me back this up to You’ll hear out there in the world, and if you hear as a parent that’s listening to this, that RTI data, that’s what they call it, RTI, Response to Intervention, that the data has to be done before the evaluation process is started.

If you hear, again I’ll repeat this, if you hear that RTI data has to be done before the process of evaluation is started, that’s inaccurate information. RTI intervention data and test at the same time. So, if one likes it, one doesn’t. Yeah. That’s a gold nugget. Um, but you do have to have intervention data to show that they’re, they’re not making progress.

So then, we’re looking at eligibility criteria for the 13 criteria, oh my. 13 eligibility criteria, um, and each one of those 13 has different criteria to be eligible. So for instance, if you are suspecting that a child has a learning disability, that’s going to be different criteria than a child that might have other health impairment that has a diagnosis of other health or, um, of ADHD.

So for instance, if we’re looking at a learning disability. They do have to have a classroom observation. They do have to have a processing disorder. They do have to have underachievement in an academic area. So there’s different criteria. And this is nationwide. So, federally guidelines tell us what the criteria is for each of those 13 criteria.

So, you can go to the, um, and I say Georgia because that’s where I’m sitting right now. That’s where I go. But if you go to the United States Department of Education IDEA. It’ll tell you those 13 categories and what you need in order to, you know, qualify under those. So, it does vary state to state, so please, if you’re listening in a different state, go to your state’s website and it’ll tell you what it looks like.

But, when push comes to shove, again, they’re coming back to, um, educational impact and is there a need for specially designed instruction. So they have to prove those two things in order. to be eligible for special education and then develop the IEP. Okay. You have to be found eligible, and just like, just like IEPs for special education, you have to be found eligible for a 504 plan too.

So you just don’t automatically get it, you have to be found eligible, and then they develop the plan. Just like for special ed, you have to be found eligible for special education, and then you can also, then you can proceed to an IEP.

Tonya: Before I move to the next question, um, just as you’re talking, I’m thinking through our kids that are twice exceptional.

So they’re, they’re in the high academic potential there, but they have a learning block. They may not be remedial students. They may still be scoring that average score. Is that child eligible for an IEP?

Heather: Absolutely. You can be twice exceptional and have an IEP and be gifted.

Helen: Okay. That’s what, yeah, I mentioned that earlier, definitely. I was seeing more of the dual classified when I left the school system three years ago.

Tonya: So that, so that student doesn’t have to have fallen behind their peers.

Heather: No, because remember, it’s not just about academics. It could be sexual emotional behavior. And also, and I don’t mean to interrupt you, but, um, there’s a misconception too in the community that Typically you don’t have a 504 and an IEP at the same time.

So if you have a 504 plan that addresses the medical accommodations, once you are found eligible for special education and develop an IEP, those, that 504 plan basically gets eaten up. into the, the IEP, you know, into those accommodations. Now, they might have a medical plan, but like you said, they have the broken leg or, you know, whatever it looks like.

They might have a medical plan that could be different, but you typically have either a 504, a 504, or an IEP. There’s really no need to have both because they, they mesh together.

Helen: And I will say this, Heather can back me up on this, but I’ve seen, it’s very rare, where if you have an IEP, and now all of a sudden, for some reason, the parent wants to come down to a father in law.

I was going to ask you about that. Um, how easy is it then to get an IEP, Heather? Because I’ve seen, very rarely, but I’ve seen that a couple times in the three years that I was doing the chair position.

Heather: Well, and it can be difficult, but my advice to anybody who’s listening that’s in that position, that if you’re, if you think that your child, Or the school is telling you they’ve mastered all of their goals and they don’t need special education anymore, which Ultimately is right what you want.

You want them to be successful. You don’t want them to have to have all of the supports Before you sign the paperwork to say that they no longer are eligible for special education Please request a comprehensive evaluation to make sur