Top Secrets of Marketing & Sales

Sales follow-up is essential. How often should I follow up with prospects and clients? It’s a question I get a lot, and as attention spans have shortened over the years, my thoughts on this subject have changed… but not in the way you might expect. I am very often asked how often we should follow up with prospects and clients. And while there is no “one size fits all” answer, there are a few guidelines I’ve found helpful over the years. Sales Follow-Up Tip #1 First off, I believe it is usually better to err on the side of too much contact, rather than too little. Most people do exactly the opposite, and find out it’s a problem when they go back and discover that the prospect they’ve been targeting has purchased from someone else. There are many reasons people give for not wanting to follow up too aggressively, but the most often cited is that they don’t want to be a _________. Can you fill in the blank? The don’t want to be a pest. Maybe you’ve said this to yourself on occasion, or maybe you’ve even said it to a prospect. “I don’t want to be a pest.” The sentiment is good. We shouldn’t want to be a pest. However, being a pest is more often about the quality of communication than just the quantity. If I keep calling someone and asking, “Do you want to buy?” “Are you ready to place an order?” “Are you ready to pull the trigger?” “Can we get going today?” That can certainly come across like a pest. But if we’re adding value in the communication instead, reaching out to them in an effort to help them identify and overcome obstacles, that can be seen as very helpful. When you’re taking a helpful approach, then it’s very unlikely you’ll be seen as a pest and you’ll be able to contact them more often. Sales Follow-Up Tip #2 When you have established rapport or a working relationship with a good prospect or client, ask how often they would like you to be in touch. If they give you a rough guideline for contact (for example “every 90 days or so”), abide by their wishes, while keeping in mind the idea of #1, that it’s better to err on the side of too much contact rather than too little. So if they say every 90 days or so, maybe schedule it for 80, or 75, or even 70. Most people won’t be paying attention to their calendar that closely. If something interesting is happening, use it as an excuse to contact them even earlier. For most businesses, I recommend at least a monthly newsletter or bulletin you can put out. If you can get your prospects interested in receiving that, then you’ll be reaching them at least once a month, and it won’t count toward the 90 days or whatever your prospect determined would be the optimal amount of contact. Sales Follow-Up Tip #3 Attention spans have shortened over the years. For that reason, putting out shorter, punchier content more frequently might work better. However, there are exceptions to this. People WILL pay attention to longer communications, whether it’s video, audio or text, as long as it remains interesting and engaging. You can engage people for more than an hour, or you can bore them in less than five minutes. It all depends on what you’re saying and how it directly benefits them. Important: Don’t Base the Frequency of Your Marketing on the Preferences of Non-Buyers I was once told by someone who was not a client of mine, that my marketing was too aggressive. I thanked him for his opinion and I removed him from my follow up, so we wouldn’t contact him again. But I didn’t change the frequency or the aggressiveness of my marketing, because I track my leads and I know that my methods work extremely well with those who actually have an interest in my products and services and the ability to buy. This experience caused me to adopt a policy that has served me well for many, many years. Never base the frequency of your marketing on the preferences of those who have no interest in buying from you! Their opinions simply don’t count. Listen instead to your paying clients. What do they say? What do they want to hear from you? What is valuable to them? Not basing the frequency of your marketing on the preferences of non-buyers may seem like obvious advice, but it’s often overlooked. Someone criticizes a marketing piece you put out, and it causes you to second guess yourself. Someone tells you you’re contacting them too much, and you extrapolate that to apply it to the entire market. It’s an easy mistake to make, but think first, before you react. If you’re adding value to people’s lives in your communications, then keep communicating. If you’re already a Total Market Domination client, be sure to review our Module 4 lessons on adding value to your communications. If you’re not, then you should definitely join

When visiting London, many years ago, I noticed signs throughout their subway system — what they call the underground. The signs said “Mind the Gap,” referring to the gap between the train and the station platform. It stuck me as a unusual combination of words, and since then, I’ve always used it as an analogy for the gaps we encounter in business, and how important it is for all of us to Mind the Gaps every day. The gap they refer to in the London underground is the physical gap or space between the train and the station platform. In some cases, the gap is just a few inches wide… enough to lose a shoe, if you’re not careful. In other areas, the gap could be nearly a foot wide… enough to lose a small child if you’re not careful! But today, I’d like to encourage you to examine and “Mind the Gaps” in your own life and business. There are actually two definitions of mind that come into play here. The first is to be mindful or aware. Are you mindful of the gaps in your business? Are you aware of them? Do you know what they are and recognize that they’re there? The second definition means being concerned or disturbed about the gaps. Do you mind the gaps? Do the gaps bother you? Do they annoy you? If not, maybe they should… The Gaps in Your Business: There are Many Many of these gaps can be measured in terms of the difference between desire and reality… between what we want and what we have. For example, the gap between our desired sales volume and our actual sales volume. The gap between the type of clients we want and the type of clients we actually have. The gap between our desired profit and our actual profit. The gap between what we would love to accomplish in our businesses and what we’re currently accomplishing. The gap between what we want to provide for our families and what we’re actually providing. The gaps between desire and reality are practically limitless. It doesn’t take a lot of looking to find them. But in my experience, there are two primary gaps we need to fill if we want to address all the other ones. The Two Primary Gaps in Business First are the gaps in what we know. Particularly the gaps related to the actions we should be taking. For salespeople and business owners it could be gaps in their knowledge of who to approach or how to approach them, what they should say or how they should say it. Gaps in what we know are deadly, because if we don’t know what to do, or how to do it, then we have very little likelihood of succeeding. Second are the gaps in what we do. There are many people who know exactly what they need to do to succeed, but for some reason, they consistently fail to do it. In sales, it’s one thing to know that we need to be prospecting daily, but it’s entirely another thing to actually do it as consistently as we know we should. Knowing and Doing are Two Different Things Beyond the gaps in what we know and what we do, are the things that Mark Twain referred to as “Things we know that just ain’t so.” Whenever we have preconceived, but incorrect notions about things, we create even more unnecessary gaps in our lives that need to be bridged. So what are the biggest gaps that are currently holding you back? Are they primarily gaps in knowledge? Do you just need to know more? Or are they gaps in doing? Do you just need to take more consistent action on things you already know? In our Total Market Domination course, we work with our clients to first eliminate the gaps in what they know, to give them the ideas, direction and step-by-step processes to follow to dominate their markets. But we also address the gaps in what they do, encouraging them to take the necessary actions each day in their businesses. If you’re already a Total Market Domination client, I encourage you to log in and start bridging whatever gap you’re currently dealing with. If you’re not, then I invite you to join us. Give us a call, toll-free at 1-800-494-2721 or check out my web presentation Programming Clients to Choose You. You can access it now at topsecrets.com/choose. If you’re tired of flat or declining sales and losing business to your competitors, be sure to check out my latest web presentation entitled Programming Clients to Choose You. Who are your very best prospects currently programmed to buy from? Is it you? Or someone else? If you want it to be you, visit topsecrets.com/choose and register for the free presentation now. That’s topsecrets.com/choose. Whenever you’re ready… here are the five primary ways we help promotional product distributors: Just Getting Started? If you (or someone on your team) is just getting started in promotional products sales, learn how we can help. Need Clients Now? If you’re already grounded in the essentials of promotional product sales and just need to get clients now, click here. Want EQP/Preferential Pri

I started a new challenge this month for my Total Market Domination clients. It’s about how to grow your sales and start dominating your market in just 22 minutes a day. Sound crazy? Not when you consider the fact that many people, in fact most people, blow a lot more time than that on activities that are completely counterproductive or even harmful, while spending little to no time at all on the very specific activities that will grow your sales and allow you to dominate your market. For a long time, news radio stations like 1010 WINS in New York and KYW in Philadelphia have promoted a tagline that says “You give us 22 minutes, we’ll give you the world.” The idea is that if you listen to them for 22 minutes straight, you’ll hear a combination of local, regional and national news, sports, weather and of course, a bunch of commercials, so you’ll know what’s going on in the world and also, who you need to buy stuff from. And it occurred to me that millions of business owners do exactly this each day. Not just with news, but with anything. It’s easy to spend lots more than 22 minutes a day filling our brains with, whatever… news, sports, music or talk shows, watching TV or YouTube videos, surfing the web and distracting us from our own lives and our own responsibilities. What does that do for focus and productivity? In most cases, it drives it right into the toilet. I know people who will tune into political shows for hours each week — in some cases, hours each day — making themselves furious, driving up their blood pressure, getting themselves angry and frustrated about the fact that not everyone sees world issues the same way they do. They obsess about how other people are thinking, what other people should be doing and how other people should be behaving, completely oblivious to the fact that when they’re so wrapped up in other people’s lives and actions, they’re completely missing out on their own lives and failing to take the actions they should be taking to move things forward. So where’s the market domination magic in 22 minutes? Well, my theory is that if you start each day, or at least each work day focused for a minimum of just 22 minutes on the specific activities that will allow you to grow your sales and dominate your market, a bunch of good things will happen. First of all, you’re setting your own agenda. You’re not allowing yourself to be distracted or sucked into other people’s drama. You’re starting the work day with the activities you decided are most important to you. That means you’re acting on your own priorities, instead of reacting to the priorities of others. Second, you’re setting a direction for yourself for the day. Henry Ward Beecher said, “The first hour is the rudder of the day.” This implies that the first hour of each day controls your direction, and that is very often true. Stub your toe getting out of bed and if you focus on that, you can use it as an excuse to be miserable all day. But if you take hold of the first 22 minutes or so of your business day and focus it on the activities that will allow you to grow your sales and dominate your market, you’ll adjust the rudder and change your direction to create a much better day. Third, activities stretch and hours expand. 22 minutes on social media can turn into hours. 22 minutes on other people’s priorities can turn into days. But when you start your work day with 22 minutes of your own priorities, it’s likely you’ll find an excuse to keep going. Just as the news stations want you to start with 22 minutes and then keep it on all day, this same logic applies to positive habits like sales growth and market domination. You commit to 22 minutes in the morning, but you might end up doing 30 or 45 or an hour. But now, the hours that are stretching out are the ones related to your priorities, and the activities you’re engaged in are those that will help your career instead of derailing it. Finally, and perhaps most importantly, is the consistency of it. If you do this for just a day, you won’t get much benefit from it. But if you do it every day, consistently, for at least 30 days, it will start to become a habit. Your days will become more focused and your priorities will receive the attention they deserve. In fact, you’ll love it. It’s addictive, but in a good way. So if you miss a day, start again with another 30 days. When you complete 30 in a row, it will be even easier to do the same with the next 30 days, and the 30 after that, and the 30 after that. At that point, it’s about living your life on purpose, starting each day putting your priorities first. If you’re already a Total Market Domination client, I encourage you to start your 30 day challenge today. If you’re not, then I invite you to join us. Give us a call, toll-free at

Uh oh. Sales have dropped off a bit. Not a huge decline, just a few percent. Well maybe, four, six, eight, something like that. No big deal, right? Well, it could be no big deal, or it could be one of the Five Early Symptoms of a Seriously Struggling Business. I have conversations all the time with salespeople and business owners who are dealing with various issues in their businesses. Maybe it seems like a small issue. Maybe it’s a few small issues. Or maybe it’s one BIG issue that indicates there might be trouble ahead. So today, I’d like to outline Five Early Symptoms of a Seriously Struggling Business. 1. Undiagnosed Sales Decreases. Maybe it’s just a percentage point or two. Maybe it’s more like eight to ten percent or even more. Regardless of the numbers, if your sales are declining you need to know why. Sometimes, a decrease in sales means nothing. But if you don’t know WHY your sales are going down… If you don’t have the knowledge or experience you need to fix it… If you don’t know what’s causing the decline, or more importantly, if you’re not completely clear on the specific actions you need to take to turn it around, then it could be an indication of a serious problem. In some cases, an experienced salesperson may see a drop in sales because they lost a single account. That’s not catastrophic, unless they were entirely dependent upon that one account for the bulk of their sales OR if they don’t have a tested, proven system in place for replacing that account. If your sales are dropping, there’s one or more reasons for that. You need to identify those reasons and address them as quickly as possible. 2. An Unpaid or Underpaid Owner. In the early stages, many business owners either can’t or don’t take a pay check. If that’s you, don’t be okay with that! Yes, it may be necessary for a short period of time, but if it starts to stretch out at all, that’s a serious indication that you are doing things wrong. In business and sales, excellent performance is its own reward. When you’re doing it right, it pays. When you’re doing it wrong, it doesn’t pay. So if you’re not getting paid, it means you’re not yet doing it right. 3. A lack of urgency in addressing issues. Complacency is a killer. Waiting to see what will happen is a death sentence. Imagine you have nothing but a big plot of dirt for your front lawn. Someone comes by an offers to plant some grass for you. You say, “no thanks, I’m going to wait to see what will happen.” Is it likely you’ll end up with a beautiful, manicured lawn? Probably not. Inaction almost always leads to a decline into chaos and disorder. Waiting for your problems to go away on their own is often the worst possible course of action. 4. Counting on others to fix it. I’ve talked with countless business owners who think they can hire the “magic salesperson or employee” who can turn it all around for them. But here’s the problem. Let’s say such a person exists, and let’s say you happen to find that person. And let’s say you even have the money to pay them. How can you possibly help or assist that person, let alone manage them, if you don’t understand the problems your business is facing yourself? In our work with clients, we help them understand the issues they’re facing so they can address those issues head on and provide intelligent, thoughtful guidance for all those they employ. 5. Failing to learn what actions to take. Trial and error in business is inevitable. But there’s no need to make it your business model. Monthly overhead costs are incessant. They eat away at businesses a little at a time. It’s death by a thousand paper cuts. So while many people think they’re saving money by not investing in the solutions that would actually help them to grow their sales and profits, they are actually hemorrhaging money every month on rent, mortgage, payroll, utilities, car payments and other overhead costs that don’t contribute one thin dime to their growth or profitability. If you’ve been dealing with one of these Five Early Symptoms of a Seriously Struggling Business for a short period of time, then maybe you’ll figure it out and turn things around. But if you’ve been dealing with any of these issues for a long time, or if you’re dealing with more than one of these issues, then visit topsecrets.com/call to see if we can help. If you’re tired of flat or declining sales and losing business to your competitors, go to topsecrets.com/call and book an appointment for a complimentary strategy session today. I’ve set aside some time over the next few days to speak with you personally, and help you get crystal clear on three things: First, identifying exactly the market you want to dominate. Second, looking at where you ar

Where do you go to get clients? Do you get them online? Do you rely on your local BNI group? Do you prospect through your local Chamber of Commerce? Do you get most of your leads via referrals? Regardless of where you go to get clients, the real question becomes “how’s that working for you?” Are you able to generate adequate lead flow to produce the level of sales you need? And if not, what are you going to do today to fix it? “I still don’t know where to go to get clients.” After a seminar I conducted for a large group at a trade show, a business owner approached me and said, “I really liked what you said about bringing new clients through the door like clockwork, but I’ve never been able to do that. I’ve been in business for a long time but believe it or not, I still don’t know where to go to get clients.” That Statement Floored Me! When someone opens up like that, I try to be empathetic, because I understand how incredibly frustrating it is for anyone who lacks the ability to bring new clients through the door consistently — like clockwork. Every day becomes a challenge and every night a struggle wondering, “what can I do tomorrow to get business?” But this was different. Here’s someone who had been in business for years, who had a very specific problem, recognized he had the problem, but failed to take the necessary actions to fix it. So I said, “Let me ask you a question. What would you do if you didn’t know where to go to get groceries?” He looked at me blankly. I continued, “What would you do if you didn’t know where to go to get shelter for your family?” He continued staring at me. “Seriously,” I said, my voice growing louder, “what if your kids were hungry and you didn’t know where to go to get food? What would you DO?” I nearly shouted that last part, and he looked a bit concerned. “What would you DO to get clients?” I smiled a bit to break the tension and said “You’d figure it out, wouldn’t you? If you couldn’t afford to wait years for a meal, you’d figure it out right now, wouldn’t you? If you had no place for your kids to stay? You’d figure it out. Well it’s the same with getting clients! You can’t just wait around hoping that some day, some how, something will magically change.” “You need to create a solution and you need to do that right now! If you don’t know where to go to get clients, you don’t know how to find or attract them to get their attention, then you need a system for making that happen…” Here’s a person who had been in business for more than five years, able to bring in clients here and there, just enough to stay in business, but nothing consistent… and never took action to fix it! I wish I could tell you that this person is the exception, rather than the rule, but he’s not! In fact, most of the people struggling in business today, do so because they don’t have a system or process in place for creating the awareness they need to bring in new customers like clockwork. This would be like McDonald’s not having a process in place to make hamburgers, or Domino’s not having a process in place to make pizza. So Make No Mistake: Clients are the Most Essential Ingredient in Your Business and if You Don’t Know How to Get Clients, You are Failing in Your Most Important Function! Getting customers begins with knowing you have to do it, knowing it’s a priority. It continues with targeting… identifying the primary markets, sub-markets and people who need to know you’re alive. It’s about creating communication and initiating contact in a way that attracts instead of repels. It’s about follow-up that’s smart and strategic, instead of random, haphazard and annoying. And ultimately, it’s about programming clients to choose you. Programming Clients to Choose You If you have any doubts about your ability to create the level of awareness you need to program the very best prospects for your products and services to choose you, instead of every other option available to them, then be sure to check out my web presentation Programming Clients to Choose You. You can access it now at topsecrets.com/choose. If you’re tired of flat or declining sales and losing business to your competitors, be sure to check out my latest web presentation entitled Programming Clients to Choose You. Who are your very best prospects currently programmed to buy from? Is it you? Or someone else? If you want it to be you, visit topsecrets.com/choose and register for the free presentation now. That’s topsecrets.com/choose. Whenever you’re ready… here are the five primary ways we help promotional product distributors: Just Getting Started? If you (or someone on your team) is just getti

Many salespeople just “wing it” when talking to clients. They think a little product knowledge and a decent personality are all it takes to win clients and close sales. And while those traits can help, primarily with those who were already predisposed to buy from you, they certainly won’t close everyone. Nor will they take the place of extreme competence — being exceptionally good at what you do and how you do it. You know it often looks like those who are extremely successful at selling are able to just walk into a situation, say whatever comes into their minds and close sales. But that is very rarely, if ever, what’s actually happening. In most cases, those experienced sales pros are using very specific and strategic communication — they’re saying things in a certain way and in a certain order that is likely to get people to say yes. Some have been doing the right things for so long, they might not even realize what they’re doing any more. It becomes second nature. It’s a state that some refer to as unconscious competence. But before we get to that, let’s talk about the previous stages that most people have to move through to get there. First is… Unconscious Incompetence This is the stage where people don’t even realize they’re doing things wrong, let alone WHAT they’re doing wrong. They either don’t think about their actions at all, or they think the actions they’re taking are probably fine, but outside circumstances are blocking their success. The unconsciously incompetent are easy to spot, because they’re often blaming others for their poor results. They’ll blame the market they’re in, the quality of the leads they got, the unreceptiveness of their prospects, an uncooperative economy, too much competition, too little time, their boss (if they’re an employee,) their employees (if they’re the boss,) or any other uncontrollable factor outside themselves. The unconsciously incompetent are simply not yet conscious of the fact that they can and should be doing things differently. So if they never make it out of that stage, they either quit, fail or get fired. But those who eventually admit to themselves that there are things they need to learn, can pass into the next stage, which is… Conscious Incompetence …meaning they now recognize that there are things they need to learn, things they haven’t yet mastered. Things, that, once mastered, will make all the difference in their business or sales careers. Now you would think that when someone reaches this state, they would be excited to do everything possible to quickly identify the specific areas that need to be fixed and address them right away. But in many cases, that doesn’t happen. Instead, they might just continue to muddle around, trying this or that, experimenting with any shiny new object, while frustrating themselves, their prospects, their coworkers and everyone else around them. You can spot those in a state of conscious incompetence, because they’re often distracted, frustrated, angry, exhausted, exasperated or all of the above. Those who never make it past this stage will also quit, fail or get fired. Which is why the rate of small business and sales failure is so high. But those who do make it past this stage, either by blind luck or by actually seeking out the people, strategies and systems that can help them, will then move on to the next stage, which is… Conscious Competence This is the stage where people can start to see positive results regularly. They’re consciously taking action, gauging their results, identifying what works well and what works poorly and adapting their actions along the way. The consciously competent have much better attitudes than either the unconsciously incompetent or the consciously incompetent, because they now know that they’re on to something. And if they continue to build upon it, they’ll eventually start to reach and exceed their goals. You can identify this group because they’re feeling pretty good, generating revenue, and because they know they’re on the right track. Those who persevere through that stage, eventually reach the level we started with, which is… Unconscious Competence They get so good at doing the right things, so well and consistently, that it becomes second nature to them. They no longer have to consciously think about what they’re doing or how they’re doing it, because it becomes baked into their DNA. They reach that state where their actions flow and feel completely natural. You’ll recognize these people because they’re the pros. They’re happy, successful and pleasant to deal with. They’re at the top of their games, and they can often stay at the top of their games for a very long time, as long as they continue to identify new skills and move their developing skills

Show me a business that has no secrets and I’ll show you a business that has no value. Over the years, I’ve taken some heat for our brand Topsecrets.com and for my belief that it’s our business secrets that create the most value in our organizations. Still, there are people who say, “there are no secrets in business.” Some just state it as fact with no attempt to explain or justify it. Others claim the only secret to business success is “hard work.” Wow. I really hate that one! Still others say there are no secrets because everything you need to know is already out there. Fair enough. But even if all the secrets to business success are really “out there” — and I don’t believe for a moment they are — if you don’t know them, they’re still a secret… at least from you. Business Secrets I think it’s ridiculous to believe there are no secrets in business. Some of the most obvious examples of secrets that create value would be Google’s search algorithm, the formula for Coca-Cola or the recipe for Kentucky Fried Chicken. In each of these cases, the secret itself is responsible for much of the value of the business. Lots of restaurants offer fried chicken, but only KFC can offer the Colonel’s famous recipe. The most important business secrets are often protected legally as “intellectual property.” This means that even if the secrets themselves were divulged, they would still be protected legally from unauthorized use by others. So what do business secrets have to do with selling or small business ownership? I think it has everything to do with that. What’s the secret sauce behind your business? What’s the thing or two that sets you apart and allows you to achieve results your competitors could never achieve? Do you have a proven system in place for creating awareness of yourself, your brand and your business among the very best prospects in your market for the products and services you offer? Are you able to consistently create sequences of clear, compelling communication that make prospective clients actually want to initiate contact with you, interact with you, and do business with you? Do you have a process in place that allows you to disqualify poor quality prospects quickly, so you’re not wasting time on those with no need, no desire, no money, no budget, no willingness to spend with you? Do you have a tested, proven procedure in place for bringing new customers through the door like clockwork? If not, how much do you think secrets like that could be worth to the success of your business? Some people squander months or years trying to figure it all out for themselves. They hemorrhage tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands or even more in wasted time and botched opportunity cost. And since they’re not even aware of the clients and sales they’re missing out on, they have absolutely no idea what operating without these secrets is really costing them! Can you do business without learning these secrets and putting them into practice in your organization? Sure you can. It’s likely you’ve done so to date. But are you leaving enormous amounts of sales, profits and good old fashioned cashola on the table, if you keep doing business without these things? I’m going to say “yes.” Big time. But of course, that’s just my opinion. If you’d like to have a candid, one-on-one conversation about if or how any of this applies directly to your business, give us a call, toll-free, at 1-800-494-2721. I’ve set aside some time in the next 48 hours to speak with you personally, to help you get really clear on the realistic growth potential of your current business over the next twelve months, the type of prospects and clients you’d need to have to get there, and what you’d have to do better and differently to make it happen. If you’re a serious business professional willing to do what it takes to create the results you want in your business, give us a call at 800-494-2721 or schedule a time that works for you at topsecrets.com/call. That’s topsecrets.com/call. Whenever you’re ready… here are the five primary ways we help promotional product distributors: Just Getting Started? If you (or someone on your team) is just getting started in promotional products sales, learn how we can help. Need Clients Now? If you’re already grounded in the essentials of promotional product sales and just need to get clients now, click here. Want EQP/Preferential Pricing? Are you an established industry veteran doing a significant volume of sales? If so, click here to get End Quantity Pricing from many of the top supplier lines in the promo industry. Time to Hire Salespeople? If you want to grow your promo sales by hiring others, click here. Ready to Dominate Your Market? If you’re serious about creating top-of-mind-awareness with the ver

What are you currently telling the market about what you do and how you do it? Do you talk about service? Do you talk about professionalism? Do you talk about speed of service or competitive pricing? Whatever it is you’re saying, be careful. Because the things you tell the market about yourself can be deadly. David: Hi and welcome to the podcast. Today cohost Chris Templeton and I will be talking about the things we say to the market about ourselves, and how they impact our business. Welcome Chris. Chris: Hi David. You know, in business we have to tell the market about ourselves so that they’ll know what to expect. What do you mean when you say that can be deadly? They are likely to believe you. David: Well, whenever we’re going to the market with a message, particularly if the market is not familiar with us, when we go out there with any sort of marketing message, I generally go in with the idea that, for the most part, they’re going to be inclined to believe what you say. So if I go to the market with a message that says “I’m the fastest at what I do, I provide lightning fast service, I’m very responsive.” Then people are going to, even if they don’t initially believe it, they’re going to expect it of you simply because you said it. If I go to the market and I say “I provide the most cost effective service, I can provide the cheapest price,” then for whatever it’s worth, they’re going to accept that and say, “okay, this company says they provide a low price. I’m going to go in with the idea that they probably have low prices.” Can you deliver on your promise consistently? It may or may not be the case, but that’s likely how I’m going to go in. In the early stages of relationship, whatever we tell the market about us, they’re likely to believe. So we want to make sure that we’re saying things that we can deliver on consistently. Sometimes our temptation to try to give people what we think they want, leads us to make claims or statements about our businesses that may not be in our best interest. Chris: So give everybody some ideas of the types of claims that you think are going to create the biggest problems. Need Help with This? Schedule a Call David: Well, I think in a lot of cases it's like the examples that I gave. If you say that you're fast, what type of clients are you going to attract? People who do things at the last minute. You're going to attract procrastinators, because they're going to expect you to get it done quickly. If you go to the market and say you're the cheapest, then they're going to expect you to be able to come in with the lowest price every time, which would directly impact your margins. What are you geared to deliver? So very often the type of things that we think a client might want, like speed and price are the things that are toughest, particularly if we're not geared to deliver that. Now in different professions it's different. I mean obviously in a medical profession you're not going to go in talking about price or speed. You're going to be talking about your ability to create a positive outcome for a patient, right? That's the type of thing that you're going to want to be focused on. In other industries and other businesses, the sales approach is often geared toward things like creativity. We come up with creative solutions. If you're in some sort of advertising space, then it might all be about creativity. And very often the idea of creativity and low price don't always go together. Because in order to have the creativity, you might have to have employees who cost a little more to be able to generate those ideas. And sometimes these ideas are incompatible. So a lot of what we need to do is to identify it early on in our business. What do we want to be known for? What is it that we want people to think about us and make sure that that is built into our messaging at every single stage. Who is better known than you for speed or price? Chris: Well, that's the thing that's killing me about this conversation right now is, if I want to, as a business owner, portray my businesses being fast or cheap. Unless I'm Little Caesars or Dominoes, I don't know that that serves me in terms of an overall great impression. David: Yeah. Or Walmart in the low cost area. Chris: Right. How will you be seen? David: And that's the danger... Is that whatever it is you do and whatever market you're in, you know, do you want to be seen as the Walmart? Do you want to be seen as the Little Caesars? And if you're not Walmart or Little Caesars, then the answer is probably no, because you're not going to be able to beat them, you know, going to be able to beat them at their own game. So I think a lot of it, is about deciding what is it that we're really good at? What is it that we're passionate about? What is it that we love doing? And try to build that in, because there's going to be a market f

Rejection in sales comes with the territory. When you’re trying to sell something, people will often say no. They’ll tell you they don’t need it, don’t want it, can’t use it. And by the way, “why are you bothering me about this?” While rejection in sales is a given, we don’t have to take it personally. Hi, and welcome to the podcast today, cohost Chris Templeton and I will be talking about rejection — why it’s inevitable in sales, but why we also don’t need to take it personally. Welcome Chris. Chris: Hi David. You know, in sales we’ve all been rejected at some point. Unless we’re brand new, then rejection just hasn’t happened yet. But rejection hurts, you know, it feels so personal. Need Help with This? Schedule a Call So how do you recommend that we don't take it personally? David: It can be hard because very often we do. And you'd mentioned new sales people, those who haven't been rejected yet. The first time it happens, it's like what? What do you mean? No? It's hard to understand. And it is easy to take personally. But if the prospect really doesn't need what it is that we have to offer, then there's nothing personal about that. It's simply a matter of we're saying, Hey, we have this thing. I have this thing. I think this could really help you. They look at it, they say, no, I don't think it can help me. There's nothing personal in that. It's essentially at that point, transactional. You're looking at something that you think has tremendous value. They're looking at it. They don't see the value yet. Now, in a sales conversation, sometimes you can flip that around and they'll begin to see the value and they may end up thinking, "okay, yeah, I do want to do this," and that's really where a lot of sales comes in. Sales, in quotes, the thing that we define as sales, which is helping people to see the advantages and see the benefits and want to take action on it. But ultimately, whether they decide to do it or whether they decide not to do it, it's not personal. It's not about you're a bad person because they didn't want to buy it or they didn't see the value. It's merely a matter of not having a great fit. Some prospects make it personal Chris: But David, some prospects make it personal. They can be rude. They can be apathetic, obnoxious, insulting. How is that... I mean, I'm getting a little bummed out just thinking about it. How is that not personal? David: Yeah, you can really get worked up with this stuff. Well, it's true and there are people who are like that. If somebody is rude or what'd you say? Obnoxious? Apathetic? If they're insulting you, yeah, that's a totally different thing. But really that's about them, right? If they're coming to you with an attitude like that or if you're going to them, and this has happened so many times, throughout my sales career, where you meet somebody, you think there should be a good fit, you start talking to them and then they just come back at you with this horrible personality or this horrible set of character traits and in the beginning you're like, "Oh my gosh, it's just something I did wrong. Did I say something incorrectly? Am I messing this up?" And ultimately after you've been doing this for a while, you realize that no, it's really about them. Rude, obnoxious and insulting should be instant disqualifiers David: People who are that obnoxious and so rude, belligerent and all that sort of thing. That is a personality trait in them. That's something that is endemic to them. It doesn't reflect on you at all. And the way that they feel about us, their approach, if they can't stand me or whatever, that's their issue. That's not my issue. And I think we want to sort of resist the urge to try to change our personality to suit the moods of poor quality prospects. We definitely don't want to do that. If somebody is a poor quality prospect, they're going to react negatively. They're going to have that sort of approach. And I would say that when somebody comes back at you like that, they're really just disqualifying themselves. Because if somebody is rude and obnoxious when you're just trying to qualify them to see if they're a good fit, imagine how awful they'll be if they actually had an order in with you and they're waiting for it to arrive or whatever. Or imagine even worse what it's like to try to get paid from somebody like that after they've already gotten the goods. Being Defensive vs. Being Obnoxious Chris: Absolutely. And from my perspective, assuming that I didn't misbehave as the salesperson, you hit it right on the head. This person is not a prospect for me. If they're behaving that way, why in the world would I want to have a client that was that unpleasant? There are a lot of people who, when they feel they're in a sales situation, are automatically defensive. And I think it was a salesperson. You've gotta be sensitive to that and hopefully be able to diffuse that. But i

Last week we discussed how a sales procedure is a series of steps or actions that are taken in a certain way, in a specific order, to ensure the best possible result. This week, we’ll take a look at some of those actions. If you were to examine the best sales presentations you’ve ever done, (that is, the ones that created the best results for both you and your client), it is very likely that there were certain elements present. 1. You effectively targeted the right business or businesses. Many distributors waste enormous amounts of time and money targeting the wrong companies. 2. You accurately gathered the appropriate contact information. If you’re reaching the wrong people within an organization, your likelihood of success is darn close to zero. Reaching the right person or people within an organization is worth a lot. Reaching the wrong people is only valuable if they can help you get to the right people. 3. You initiated contact with the new prospect in a way that positioned you well and professionally. If you blow your first contact with a new prospect, it can be difficult, if not impossible to recover. If they see you as a product peddler instead of a solution provider, you could be dead in the water before you even start. 4. You followed up intelligently and methodically. You managed to reach them often enough to move the conversation forward without contacting them too much, driving them crazy or coming across as a stalker. 5. You qualified the prospect well enough to determine that they had the need for your product, the desire to purchase it, and enough money to be able to complete the transaction. You then determined the appropriate next steps based on the prospect’s situation. If you’re thorough, you should have also examined the results you achieved — both good and bad — and then adapted or “tweaked” your approach to make it work even better next time. The True Professionals in Our Industry Solidify Their Procedures to Create Consistent, Predictable Results This provides structure, while still allowing for creativity. It provides a framework without coming across as canned or rigid. When each of these important elements are present, we can be extremely successful at getting new clients. But if just one of these elements is missing, incomplete or performed incorrectly, the results can be disastrous. To build a profitable client base, you’ll need to structure your sales procedure to target the right businesses, identify the appropriate contacts within each business, eliminate poor quality prospects quickly and build a strong rapport with the high quality prospects you actually want to have as clients. You’ll want to use a tested, proven lead qualification procedure designed to ensure that none of the good ones slip through the cracks, and you’ll want to evaluate and improve your process every step of the way. When you get this right, you will spend far less time with tire-kickers and far more time with valuable, solid, high quality prospects. If you’re tired of flat or declining sales and losing business to your competitors, be sure to check out my latest web presentation entitled Programming Clients to Choose You. Who are your very best prospects currently programmed to buy from? Is it you or someone else? If you want it to be, you, visit topsecrets.com/choose and register for the free presentation now. That’s topsecrets.com/choose. And whenever you’re ready… here are the five primary ways we help promotional product distributors: Just Getting Started? If you (or someone on your team) is just getting started in promotional products sales, learn how we can help. Need Clients Now? If you’re already grounded in the essentials of promotional product sales and just need to get clients now, click here. Want EQP/Preferential Pricing? Are you an established industry veteran doing a significant volume of sales? If so, click here to get End Quantity Pricing from many of the top supplier lines in the promo industry. Time to Hire Salespeople? If you want to grow your promo sales by hiring others, click here. Ready to Dominate Your Market? If you’re serious about creating top-of-mind-awareness with the very best prospects in your market, schedule a one-on-one Strategy Session here.

Success procedures are critical in business. When I’m consulting clients, I frequently quote the line “failure is not an option” from the movie Apollo 13. It’s a mindset worth adopting. In this podcast we’ll discuss the importance of procedures in sales and how they lead from failure to success. One Friday night, I was watching Apollo 13 with my kids, and I was struck by the number of time the word “procedure” was used. NASA has procedures for everything, and if a new situation comes up for which they don’t have a procedure, they create one. So in the movie, when the ship ran into trouble, they needed a procedure for adapting the command ship’s CO2 filters using only the materials they had on board. Later they needed a procedure for executing a burn to precisely correct their course without using their computer. One of the most pivotal scenes in the movie involves astronaut Ken Mattingly in a simulator, trying to create a systematic, step-by-step landing procedure that would work, given the limited amount of power they had left. To many people, the idea of creating procedures sounds daunting. To some, it sounds restrictive, like if I have a process for something, I won’t be able to use my natural instincts and creativity. But in reality, a procedure is nothing more than a series of steps or actions that are taken in a certain way, in a particular order to create a desired result. The checklist used by airline pilots prior to takeoff is a good example of a procedure. If you’re flying, you would probably prefer your captain to follow that checklist procedure, rather than just going with his or her gut — literally winging it. But tested, proven procedures are just as necessary and valuable to sales professionals and business owners as they are to pilots and astronauts. In Fact, We All Need Success Procedures if We Want to Maximize Our Sales and Profits… What is your procedure for targeting new clients? What is your procedure for driving a steady stream of new leads to your door? What is your procedure for qualifying those leads? For converting those leads into profitable sales? For generating repeat business? For generating referral business? For retaining existing clients? Or for reactivating clients who haven’t ordered in a while? Do you really want to be winging it when it comes to these important functions? The truth of the matter is that effective procedures don’t limit you. They empower you. They don’t hold you back. They free you up. They don’t limit your creativity, they enhance it. When we’re able to use our creativity inside a tested, proven, success framework, the sky’s the limit! So what is your success procedure? What is the specific procedure you use to create consistent, positive results in your business? Do you have one? If you don’t, can you see how that severely limits your earning potential? Imagine Waking Up in the Morning Knowing You Have a Tested, Proven System in Place for Attracting, Qualifying and Converting Clients as You Need Them — Essentially at Will… Won’t it feel incredible to not have to worry where your next sale is coming from? How much more confident will you feel? How much less will you have to worry about your competition and how much more will they have to worry about you? If you’re tired of flat or declining sales and losing business to your competitors, be sure to check out my latest web presentation entitled Programming Clients to Choose You. Who are your very best prospects currently programmed to buy from? Is it you or someone else? If you want it to be, you, visit topsecrets.com/choose and register for the free presentation now. That’s topsecrets.com/choose. And whenever you’re ready… here are the five primary ways we help promotional product distributors: Just Getting Started? If you (or someone on your team) is just getting started in promotional products sales, learn how we can help. Need Clients Now? If you’re already grounded in the essentials of promotional product sales and just need to get clients now, click here. Want EQP/Preferential Pricing? Are you an established industry veteran doing a significant volume of sales? If so, click here to get End Quantity Pricing from many of the top supplier lines in the promo industry. Time to Hire Salespeople? If you want to grow your promo sales by hiring others, click here. Ready to Dominate Your Market? If you’re serious about creating top-of-mind-awareness with the very best prospects in your market, schedule a one-on-one Strategy Session here.

Some people have trouble achieving because they’ve never really outlined their goals and when you fail to define what you want, it’s nearly impossible to get it. But maybe you have outlined your goals, you know exactly what you want, you’ve written it down like a good goal setter and you review it regularly. If you’re still not achieving, then it’s likely you’ve fallen into the gap between goal setting and goal achievement. David: Hi and welcome to the podcast. Today, co-host Chris Templeton and I will discuss how to make the pivot from goal setting to goal achievement. Welcome Chris! Chris: Hi David. You seem to be approaching this topic as if it’s a given, but some people, I’m sure there’s a lot of them get through life without setting any formal goals. What makes you think this is important? David: Well, that’s a valid question. Not everyone does set goals, but I would venture to say that if you’re a business owner or a sales person, the type of person likely to listen to this podcast, then you’re probably setting some goals. And some people, even if they don’t realize they’re setting goals are actually setting goals, so you might not formally say, “I am setting a goal to accomplish this by this date”, but you may think, “Hmm, I’d really love to have a car like that, or I’d really love to earn X amount of dollars per year, or I’d really love to have a house like that, or I’d really love to be able to pay my bills.” Things like that where essentially they may just form a thought or an idea, but they actually are goals. It’s things that we want and what is a goal other than something we want? Chris: It seems like what you’re talking about is traditional goal setting. It’s the Field of Dreams approach. Boy, that’d be nice to have and then maybe that’ll come as a result of that thought. It works out in the movies, but how do you see that playing out in real life? David: Yeah, it does work in the movies. In real life, I think it’s rarely a good idea – I mean, if it’s something that you really want. There are aspects of life that we can just allow to unfold, things are going to happen and we’re going to take advantage of them or we’re not going to take advantage of them. Whatever’s going to happen is going to happen. A lot of life is simply living it and seeing what happens and making decisions in the moment, and I’m not saying that all of life is going to be about setting and achieving goals, but when we think in terms of the things that we really want in the six areas that we had talked about in our podcast; I don’t know, months ago, mental and physical and spiritual and social and financial and family. If we want to make things happen in those areas, then it really does boil down to deciding – what do we want to have happen and then what are we going to do to make it happen? When you think in terms of that field of dreams approach, you know “if you build it, they will come,” it really is sort of wishful thinking. And so if you want those types of things to happen, you’re far better off making them happen instead of just waiting for things to happen. And I would point out that the guy in the movie, he actually built that ball field, so he did do something to make it happen. It wasn’t like he just waited for the universe to take care of it for him. Chris: There a whole lot of effort there wasn’t there? Whether it was convincing the poet Laureate to go with him. Ah, such a great movie! But a lot of what we’re seeing in the last, I don’t know, five or 10 years, is things like The Secret and Law of Attraction. Is that approach realistic when it comes to goal achievement? David: Well, that’s a good question. I mean, some people love The Secret and if you’re not familiar with what The Secret is, if you’re listening to this podcast and you’re not sure what that is; The Secret was a movie that came out a while ago, I believe. There was also a podcast and a website and a bunch of different things and it was really talking about what they refer to as the Law of Attraction, and that’s a concept that’s been around for a long, long time, well before The Secret. And I saw that and I didn’t love it. And the reason I didn’t love it is not that I don’t believe that we attract things into our lives because certainly we do. And the Law of Attraction, I think to some extent if you’re doing certain things, then yeah, you’re going to attract the people and circumstances that will help you if for no other reason because you’re looking for them. When you’re focused on achieving a particular outcome, you’re going to be a lot more likely to notice the things that are going to help you to get there. So, from th

Happy St.Patrick’s Day! This morning, I woke up, jumped on the treadmill and thought about the story of St. Patrick driving the snakes out of Ireland. And it made me think, “what are the snakes in your life?” What are the snakes in your business? What are the mental snakes? The physical snakes and the emotional snakes? And what can we do to drive them out as quickly as possible? So our topic today is dealing with snakes! Let’s start with the mental snakes. Anxiety, fear, doubt, concerns over things over which we have no control. Worrying about people. Worrying about things. Worrying about circumstances, finances, health, family. Worrying about things that could go wrong in our businesses. Worrying about how to keep things going right. Worrying about our own happiness, and other people’s happiness. Fighting feelings that we can’t keep all the balls in the air. Ever been there? We can’t keep everyone happy. We can’t even keep the train of our own lives on track and moving in the right direction most of the time. It’s a lot of stuff to be concerned about. But we have to realize that all that anxiety, all that fear, all that worry… it’s all internal. It’s not actually about what’s going on in the outside world. It’s about how we’re processing it internally. That’s not to say we don’t have to deal with real issues. We do. Every single day. But, if you want to start driving out snakes, it’s often a good idea to start with the snakes in your own mind. Recognize that our fears don’t make things better. Our worries don’t make things better. Our anxieties certainly don’t make things better. In fact, they almost inevitably makes things a lot worse. And not just for ourselves, but often for those around us. So step one is to identify the snakes that need to be purged from our brains. Write them down and put together a plan for addressing that. So we started with the mental snakes within us. Now let’s talk about the snakes on the outside. If I were to say to you, “what are the most obvious snakes?” What are the things around you that help to trigger or cause the fears, anxieties, worries or the stresses you feel — what are they? Who are they? And are they really on the outside? Or is it an internal snake that I’ve failed to fully process? What I mean is, is it the person, the place, or the circumstance? Or is it the way we think about and respond to those people, places, and circumstances? Really think that through. Many people complain a lot about all the external circumstances that are making their lives frustrating, bad, miserable, or even intolerable. But is it really those outside factors? Or is it the way we internalize and process our thoughts about them? I don’t know the answer to that question, and I am in no way qualified to answer it for you, which is why I’m asking YOU the question. Because I think that this is something ONLY you can determine for yourself. Is this one of those snakes that can be driven out by simply driving out the way you process it in your own brain? Or is this actually an external snake that needs to be physically driven out of your life? That’s a big decision. Because sometimes those snakes, whether they’re mental or physical, can take the form of friends, family, bosses, coworkers, or loved ones. And if the relationship is important or necessary to you, then the focus has to be driving out the snakes, instead of driving out the people, changing the places or altering the circumstances. And the reality of the situation is that it might require quite a bit of each. So take out a sheet of paper, and draw two lines down the page to break it up into three vertical columns. In the left column. Write down your list of snakes. All the fears, concerns, people, places, and circumstances that you feel are causing you the most problems. In fact, you may need more than one sheet of paper to do this. If you’re like me, you may need to go to Staples and get a couple of reams of paper to get them all down, get it out of your brain, and onto the page, where it will seem more manageable. Once you’ve got all that out in the left column, then review your list. In the middle column, jot down whether this is an internal problem or an external problem. Now you need to be really thoughtful about this one, because in a lot of cases, things you think of as an external problem are really internal problems. This is particularly true when you’re concerned about exterior, and perhaps global forces, that are completely outside of your control or your sphere of influence. Stephen Covey, in the Seven Habits of Highly Effective People described circles of influence. Inside the circle are the issues you can directly impact – things you can change by your own personal action. And outside the circle are all the things that you have absolutely no control over, whatsoever. For example, yo

How are you at selling remotely? Are you okay with the idea of selling less in person and selling more via phone, email, and text? And if not, what’s that likely to do to your income? David: Hi and welcome to the podcast today cohost Chris Templeton and I will be talking about using phone, email, and text to replace in-person selling. Welcome Chris. Chris: Hi David. You know, to me, selling on the phone doesn’t seem all that different from selling in person. And as a matter of fact, that’s been my primary way of sales over the last, well almost 20 years. But I know not everybody agrees. How critical do you think remote selling is going to be going forward? David: I think it’s going to be really critical going forward. I mean, obviously over the course of the past months, the world has demonstrated how if you want to sell something, and you can’t do it remotely, you’re going to have a lot of trouble. So yeah, going forward, I think it’s going to be just as important if not more important. As restrictions continue to be lifted, a lot of people are going to be tempted to think, “okay, we’re going to be able to move back to business as usual.” And maybe we will and maybe we won’t. We just don’t know. But in the meantime, I know there are a lot of people who started working from home who said, “you know what? This isn’t too bad!” And there are businesses who are looking at the expense of having an office and saying, “maybe I don’t need that. Maybe we can do more simply by working at home.” As things like that start to happen, a lot of people are going to be in the situation where they’re going to have to start adapting. And even if they don’t, if you’re able to sell both in person and remotely on the phone or whatever, it just increases your horizons. It allows you to reach more people more quickly. It allows you to identify the targets you want to go after and be able to go after them without having to physically be in front of them. So I think regardless, it’s just a good skill to have and now is the perfect time to make sure that you’re developing and honing that skill. Chris: And I think it’s really important to just say straight up, you know what? We may get back to business as usual someday. But I think that if what you’re doing as a business person is pinning your hopes on that, you’re going to be waiting a long time, number one. And number two, once you begin to practice with some of these online tools, having online meetings, it becomes not an issue at all. And I would encourage people to really think about what it is that they’re telling themselves. If they think that this is a negative way to do business, look at your story about why and really think about, “gee, what if I were good at this? How would I feel about it then?” And I think that we’ve got to really bridge that gap in our own minds to begin with, don’t you? David: I do. You mentioned the fact that you’ve done a lot of selling on the phone and online over a long period of time. I’m in exactly the same situation. So to that extent, because we both have that experience we’re, to whatever extent, if not jaded then at least biased in our opinion because we know how well it can work. But I recognize that there are people listening to this podcast who are not in that situation. They’ve done face to face for the bulk of their lives and that’s what they’re used to, and they may have trouble adapting. The purpose of this podcast is to do two things. One is to say to people who have not sold successfully remotely, “Hey look, you can probably do this and we’re happy to help you to try to figure out how to make that happen.” And also for those who are good at it, to recognize that you possess a skill that is really necessary right now. So if you’re working for someone else, that is a skill that could be coveted by other employers. If you own your own business, recognize it gives you a tremendous advantage. And just realizing that the more, different ways we have of accomplishing a particular result, particularly when it comes to selling products and services, the better off we are. We just never know what’s going to change, what’s going to happen. If, months ago, you had said to me, “Hey, guess what David, you’re not going to be able to leave your house for a period of time.” I wouldn’t have believed it! But you know, here we are. And so I think anything can happen at any time. We all kind of know that, but if this isn’t a wake up call, I don’t know what it is. Chris: Yeah, I think you’re right on the money. And again, I want to just encourage people to play around with the idea of what would my ideal way of working from home be. Understanding that that may n

Recently, a long-time client asked me a question about penetrating large accounts. He was talking about how they’re currently working with one location, trying to penetrate a second and then realizing that there are actually many more locations. So the question is “what’s the best way to penetrate a large account?” Many of us sell to companies that have more than one person who can buy our products. Some of those people might be in the same department as our client. Some might be in different departments. Some might even be in different divisions, locations or related companies. In all of these cases, I’d like to make a recommendation that I would encourage you to follow with every contact you do business with. It’s very simple and very powerful, and it’s entirely based on internal referrals. Need Help with This? Schedule a Call Ask each of your existing contacts who they know 1.) in their own department, 2.) in other departments in their own location, then 3.) in other locations, who either buy or influence the buying decision. Then ask for an introduction to that person. When I say it like this, it sounds like you're asking too much, but don't worry, you can do it a little at a time. Of course, if you already know you're dealing with a business that has just one location, you can leave out the "other location" reference, but still ask about other people in their own department and other departments. Let me give you a simple example of how this works. Years ago, I was dealing with the marketing director at a local bank. It was a good account, and I was doing a decent volume of business with them. One afternoon, I was visiting my contact and noticed she essentially worked in a "cubicle farm." There were lots of other people in her department who appeared to be doing all sorts of different things. So I asked her, "who else in your department buys promotional products?" I got lucky. She mentioned the name of her manager and offered to introduce me to her. Of course, if she hadn't offered, I would have asked, but this made it much easier. On the way out, my contact introduced me to her manager, who was willing to take a few moments to talk with me. I'm sure this only happened because of the way we were introduced. It's not like she would have met with me if I had just shown up on her doorstep. During the conversation, I asked her, "who else in your department buys promotional products," and she told me about a third person who also did some buying. Theoretically, my initial contact could have told me about this person, but maybe she didn't know. In any event, this simple question tripled the number of people I was in touch with in just that department. I'm a slow learner, so when it occurred to me, weeks later, that this was just one department, I started asking my contacts who else they knew in other departments. This lead to some new contacts and additional business in the executive division. Since that experience, I made it a point to repeat that process with every contact I came in touch with. Who else in your department buys? Who do you know in other departments who buy? And, can you introduce me to them? Oh, it's also important you never assume you know the answer to this. I've been in small companies where I've asked the question and they laughed at me. "No, we're a small company. I'm the only buyer." I've been in other small companies where they've said, "oh yeah, Tricia buys too. Hey Tricia, come over here." Three Steps to Fully Penetrate Large Accounts Ask Each of Your Existing Contacts: Who they know in their own department, in other departments and in other divisions or locations, who buys or influences the buying decision. Ask for an introduction to those people. Repeat this Process with every single contact you make within the organization. NOTE: This approach is deceptively simple, but highly effective. The most critical part is to repeat it with each contact you make. The most critical part of this process, is to repeat it with each person you come in contact with. It's a terrible analogy, but the goal is to spread yourself throughout the organization like a virus. Viruses spread from cell to cell, organ to organ and system to system. Similarly, you want to spread from person to person within a department, then jump to other departments and do the same thing. Then jump to other divisions, locations and related businesses. It's always person to person. It's always one-on-one, and it's an approach that you replicate, like a virus. Think of it as a healthy virus. A happy virus. A virus that actually helps people. Then spread it to everyone you encounter. If you're tired of flat or declining sales and losing business to your competitors, be sure to check out my latest web presentation entitled Programming Clients to Choose You. Who are your very best prospects currently programmed to buy from? Is it you or someone else? If you want it to be, you, visit tops

Each year I go to industry trade shows, and whether in-person or virtual, I find some people who have achieved extraordinary results since our last meeting, while others seem stuck and haven’t moved at all. In nearly every case, I can trace the results back to one thing — speed of implementation. Those who take quick action on new ideas succeed, while those who don’t, languish. David: Hi and welcome to the podcast. Today, co-host Chris Templeton and I will be talking about how your speed of implementation accelerates your results. Welcome, Chris! Chris: Hi David! We all have ideas, don’t we? Sometimes we take action on them and sometimes we don’t, but speed of implementation is not just about taking action on our ideas. It’s about doing it quickly so we can get the results sooner, right? Need Help with This? Schedule a Call The Idea-Action-Result Cycle David: Yeah, exactly. We get an idea, we take action on it (or we don't take action on it) and we get a result. We get a result if we DO take action, we get a result if we don't take action. If you were to graph this, you could sort of do it as a cycle. It's a sort of a circle or an oval. The idea comes first. So the idea happens, say that's a light bulb, right? So we get this brilliant idea, we're exposed to a brilliant idea or just comes in the middle of the night, whatever it is. That's the idea. The next thing that needs to happen is we need to take action on that idea. So that's second, right? Once we take action or we don't take action, then the third thing that happens is we get a result. After that maybe we'll get another idea and the cycle will repeat. So while we can't always control the amount of time that it takes between the time we take action and the time we get a result; like if we do a sales pitch, we can't always control when we're actually going to get the sale. That's the action vs. the result. We can often control the time between the idea that we get and the time that we take action on that idea. So that particular area in that cycle is where we need to focus our attention because it directly impacts the cycle time. The sooner we take action on an idea, the sooner we can find out what the result of that action is. Chris: I think it's a very salient point that regardless of whether you take action or not, there's a result and it's measurable, isn't it? David: Completely measurable. Yep. Chris: What do you think seems to keep people from implementing ideas the way they should? David: Well, a lot of it goes back to fear, which is something we talked about in a previous podcast. People are just scared of stuff and it paralyzes them into inaction. They just don't take action on it. They get an idea, I think it's a good idea, but I'm afraid to move forward on it. It could be that, it could be a matter of priorities. I want to do it, I know I need to do it, but I have these ten other things that are pressing right now. They might not be as important, but they seem like they need to get done, so it could be a matter of priorities. It could also just be a matter of business as usual. I'm used to doing things in a certain way and it's like, I like this idea, but I don't really know if I want to do it. I don't know if I have the time. I don't know if it's going to get me the results, so all of those things could potentially play into it. Chris: But if we're focused on speed, isn't there a danger of rushing through things and hurting the quality of our work? David: Oh, absolutely, and I'm not suggesting that we're rushing through things in order to just get them done, but we're talking about the time between the idea and the time of taking action. If we can just tighten that up, we'll still spend roughly the same amount of time taking whatever action it is we're taking. I'm not suggesting we have to rush through the action itself. I'm simply suggesting that... If we're able to accelerate the velocity between the time that we get the idea and the time we start taking action, that very often is going to be the biggest difference. Sometimes the actions that we need to take could take minutes or it could take hours. Maybe it'll take days, but in more cases than not, it's going to be far less time. But the amount of time between the time we get the idea and the time we start to take action, that's where it ends up sometimes being days, weeks, months, even years. If you've ever had an idea that you thought this would be a good idea, I really ought to do it and I haven't done it yet. You're living in that gap. Chris: I think a lot of the fear that you talk about is also a function of looking at what's the end result going to be versus what's the next step? And being able to take a series of next steps quickly is a whole lot different than trying to think of the idea all the way through to the end and all that that encompasses, we kind of create this fear and resistance when we do it that way. David: We do, and the longer

Indecision is deadly to sales. People think they want to buy something, but they’re not sure what. Or they know what they want to buy, but they can’t decide on the style or the color, or they may know the style and color, but they just can’t seem to pull the trigger. So today let’s talk about making it easier for people to make a buying decision. David: Hi and welcome to the podcast! Today co-host Chris Templeton and I will be talking about making it easier for prospects to make a buying decision. Welcome Chris! Chris: Hi David! You know, humans have been selling things for a long time, but getting that buying decision, I don’t imagine it’s gotten a whole lot easier over time, has it? Need Help with This? Schedule a Call David: No, it doesn't seem to have gotten any easier at all. I mean for people who have been in sales for any length of time, you think about how easy or difficult it was to get people to make a decision 20 years ago, versus how easy or difficult it is now. I would say there's an argument to be made that it's actually harder now, because there are more choices, there are more options, there's more competition. So, in a lot of ways I think it probably is actually harder now to get a buying decision out of someone than it was previously. Chris: I absolutely agree with that. And I think you're right, it's about having so many choices, but I also think it's a good time in terms of personal service really being the thing that is such a nice differentiator for sales and now it's become so easy to buy something without even having to talk to somebody and being in a situation where you're able to provide that personal level of service really in my mind seems to be a good differentiator. David: It does. It certainly helps with a certain type of buyer who actually wants and needs that relationship. Absolutely. Chris: And some people are just more indecisive than others, aren't they? David: Yeah, I think they are. And you know, you look at that situation, and you say, okay, there's some people that just can't seem to make a decision no matter what. And as a sales person we say, okay, well why is that the case? Why do people have trouble making these types of decisions? Or making any decision at all, and I think a lot of it for buyers tends to boil down to some level of fear. They're afraid of making the wrong choice, they're afraid of getting burned, they're afraid of getting ripped off. They don't want something bad to happen, they're afraid of making a wrong decision and having their boss get angry. Whatever it is, but a lot of it really just in my mind at least boils down to fear that keeps people from taking action and moving forward and at some point, then it becomes like mental programming. I program myself to not make decisions to put off decisions to hem and haw and procrastinate and it's always harder when an indecisive person is tasked with making a decision. It's frustrating from a sales standpoint when the person who has been put in charge of making that decision refuses to do it, they refuse to essentially do their job. It's very frustrating and it's rampant. Chris: It really is. And I think about it, one of my approaches in sales has always been, I want to help you to make an informed decision that you feel really comfortable with. And I think we lose that. And having that approach with a prospect can really help in moving the sales along. When you look at it, how much of sales in this part of the process is about helping them to see the benefits of the product or service you're selling? David: Well, I think a lot of it is about that and the key word there is helping them - and sometimes when people are not good at making decisions, it's very frustrating for us; and when we look at it and we're just trying to get a decision out of them, we can sometimes forget that the whole reason that we're there is to try to help them with some sort of issue or problem or situation that they have. That's all sales is about. It's about finding the situations, finding the pain points, the pressure points that they need help with, and then helping them with that. So yes, it's first about helping them and it's definitely about helping them to see the benefits of the products and services that we offer. Sales is often referred to as a transfer of enthusiasm. In other words, if I'm enthusiastic about my product and service and I'm a sales person, that that enthusiasm will eventually transfer to the person that I'm talking to. And I think this is particularly true of people who are less decisive. If you can get them excited about the prospect of working with you, or excited about the prospect of what the product or service that you're offering them is going to do for them, then they're going to be a lot more enthusiastic themselves perhaps about making that happen and taking the actions that they need to take on their end to consummate the sale. Chris: And that really brin

There’s a phrase that’s been popularized in sales which says “buyers are liars.” It refers to those who say they want one thing but end up buying another. I’ve never liked the phrase, and even though it’s occasionally true, I believe there’s another group that deserves the title much more in my opinion. It’s the non-buyers who are often the real liars! David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast! Today co-host Chris Templeton and I will debunk the notion that buyers are liars. Welcome back, Chris. Chris: Hi David. You know, it’s likely that every salesperson has heard this phrase and even said at a time or two, especially when things weren’t going well. So, what makes you think, David, that buyers aren’t liars? David: Okay. They have to prove their veracity in this podcast! Chris: Are you a truth teller? David: Exactly, yeah. I think if they’re buyers, then it means that they bought something from you. So even if they weren’t telling you the entire truth the whole time, you were at least able to get past it. So I think the fact that they bought something, the idea of saying that buyers are liars is rather insulting to the people who actually spend money with us. I’m far less concerned about saying that non-buyers are liars because in my experience in sales over the years, that really seems to be the case that people who don’t buy from you, the people who string you along, waste your time and do all that sort of thing. They’re the ones who are most often telling you things that just aren’t true. So with buyers, you know you’re able to get past it. So to me that means that most of the liars are the ones who are not doing that. Who are not buying. Chris: And from your standpoint, what do non-buyers tend to lie about the most? Need Help with This? Schedule a Call David: Well, there are a bunch of things and they're all familiar to anyone who's been in sales for any length of time. They say they're going to call you back and then they don't call you back. They say they want one particular thing and then they buy something completely different from someone else. They say they're the decision maker and they're not the decision maker. There are all kinds of things. They'll say they'll make a decision by a certain date and then they don't. What else? They say they'll think about it. Anyone ever said that to you Chris? Chris: No, I've never had that said to me, and I've certainly never said it to any salesperson. David: Exactly, "I'll think about it." Right? And the reality is that even if we've said it ourselves, we'll think about it. Are we really going to think about it? What are we going to think about? And so, very often, even if we've done these things, we didn't mean to lie to somebody. And maybe in our own heads we didn't think we were, but nine times out of 10 whenever we've done any of those things, we just weren't telling the truth. Chris: Right, right. And it's easy to go down that road without framing it up quite that way, isn't it? David: Yeah, and without thinking of it like that, really it's less about deliberately misleading somebody and more about thinking, "Oh, well, you know, I just need to toss this around in my head for a while." And in a lot of cases people convince themselves that they actually think it's true. It reminds me of that Seinfeld episode where George Costanza says, “Remember Jerry, it's not lying if you think it's true!” Chris: When you look at this, how do you think we should handle when we think - or when we know - somebody's lying to us? David: Yeah, it's tough. I mean the first thing is we want to make sure we don't accuse them. “Hey, you're lying to me.” That's not good for relationship building, but we do want to try to pin them down in some ways. In other words, if they're saying they're going to call back on Tuesday and we can say, “Okay, what time Tuesday is good for you, I'll get it on my calendar.” We can do things like that to try to pin it down. We can ask for clarity, so if somebody says they're looking for something very specific, we can make sure that we ask things like: “Is there anything else you're considering? Are there any other options that you're looking for?” So, getting that sort of clarity up front rather than simply taking whatever they say first at face value and assuming it's the whole story. It's like what they say in a courtroom, the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Sometimes they'll give you the truth, but they won't give you the whole truth while I'm thinking about this... (But I'm also thinking about that and that and that.) But they don't say that second part. So that's what we're looking for. We want to make sure that we are getting the clarity that we need from people, so that it all makes sense. And we can also just request confirmation when somebody says something like, you know, they're the decision maker. You can ask them, “

Lead generation is a critical part of every business because without an adequate supply of leads, it’s impossible to maintain a business. So where do the bulk of your new leads come from these days and where do your best leads come from? Online, offline, or both? David: Hi and welcome to the podcast. Today co-host Chris Templeton and I will be talking lead sourcing, meaning where your leads are coming from. Welcome Chris. Chris: Hi David. Interesting point that you made in the introduction, which is that you may get the bulk of your leads from one source, but your best leads from somewhere else. And it does happen that way sometimes, doesn’t it? Need Help with This? Schedule a Call David: Yeah, it actually happens that way quite a bit. And there's a very often a big difference between the quantity of leads that we get and the quality of leads that we get and they don't always go together. The places where we're getting the most leads might not be the best quality leads. I know a lot of times when I'm talking to salespeople and business owners and I ask them where their best leads come from, almost inevitably they say referrals. You know, referrals are their primary source of leads and while referrals are a great source of leads and very often a very high quality source of leads, they're not always the most prolific. In other words, you don't always get as many of them as you want. So recognizing that there's a difference between the bulk of the leads that are coming in and the quality of the leads and the fact that those are two different things can be helpful. Chris: How do we go about the process of balancing that quality/quantity equation of leads? David: Well, it starts with testing the quality of your leads with a consistent approach to the leads that you get. In other words, whenever we get a lead, we want to make sure that we're treating them exactly the same because if we get 10 different leads and we treat each of them differently, then we're not going to know if they closed because of the approach we took or if it was the lead itself. So we want to first start out by having a consistent approach to the leads we get in. If we get 10 leads in, we want to try to treat them as close as we possibly can to exactly the same way, then you can take a look at who closed and who didn't. And that will help you to determine which ones are good and which ones are bad. And at that point it's easier then, to start to work to get more good leads and you can also potentially work to improve the conversion on the bad leads or the ones that didn't convert. So, it's sort of a balance looking at quantity first and saying, “Okay, if I treat them all the same, which ones close?”, and then say, “All right, if they close, then that makes them by default good leads.”, and then looking at that and extrapolating from there, Chris: I think you bring up a really good point, which is not said specifically, but you know, if you ask most business people about where their leads come from, their best leads, they're going to say referrals. But I'm not convinced that all businesses are doing all that great a job of tracking leads. Are you? David: No, I'm not at all. And basically, it's because when I ask them, they'll tell you that. They'll say that they know they need to do a better job of tracking their leads, but they just don't. I think most businesses do have a reasonable idea of where their leads are coming from and very often, they know that they wish there were more leads coming in. They might have, you know, one or two primary sources that they're getting leads from and those could both be reactive. And that's one of the issues that we have with referrals alone because referrals alone are very often reactive unless they have a specific procedure in place that is designed to make the referrals more proactive. If they actually initiate referrals from prospects and from existing clients in that situation they could actually create more, but in a lot of cases people get leads from referrals just because they're good at what they do and that's awesome because it's very organic. It's very typical that if you do a good job, people are going to refer you, but if you can't count on that and if you need to get leads elsewhere, then you have to look at other sources. Chris: Go back a little bit and talk about the difference between handling a lead reactively versus proactively what that means to you. David: Okay. Well a reactive lead is one that just sort of comes in as a result of the fact that you're doing a good job at what you're doing. That's what I consider to be a reactive lead. It just sort of happens. Proactive leads means that there is something that you are doing to initiate that lead. It's either some sort of advertising or some sort of whatever social media post or you're doing something to put your name or your information out there so that someone can then respond to it and become a lead. Chris: Do you think t

As social media has evolved, so have the ways that people are selling. From Facebook to Twitter, to LinkedIn, to whatever comes next, we all have to be on the lookout now for when social media conversations turn salesy and every conversation is suspect. David: Hi and welcome to the podcast. Today co-host Chris Templeton and I will be discussing the idea that as more and more poor quality sales-people turn to social media, nearly every conversation we have becomes suspect. Welcome Chris. Chris: Hi David. You know it is a growing trend, isn’t it? You post a question or a comment on social media. People essentially start spamming you as a result with pitches for their products, that sort of thing. Where do you draw the line between helpful content and a blatant sales pitch if you’re on the delivery end of that type of thing? Need Help with This? Schedule a Call David: Yeah, it's a great question because as salespeople and as business owners, we know that we want to have conversations online that could potentially lead to a sale but we don't want to do it in a way that is just us being obviously self-promotional. So there is a fine line there, and I've really noticed this recently over the course of the past really month or two. Particularly even in the past few weeks I've become more and more aware of it. And as I have, I've just noticed it everywhere. It's like that thing where you buy a certain type and color of car and then all of a sudden you keep seeing that. I've been seeing this on social media all over the place lately. Someone will post a comment and in fact, a situation I had recently was I had asked a question on social media. I asked if people got their leads primarily online or offline and I had some people who came in and they said, “I get most of my leads online,” I got some people who said, “I get most of my leads offline.” And then I had somebody who just posted an ad for their place because they help get people leads online. So essentially they hijack the thread and they're sort of spamming people with a response. And I thought, it's so foolish and shortsighted to do that because if they had actually responded and said something like, "Well, you know, we used to get them online, but now we get them offline and we've developed a few strategies that have helped us to do that." Then they could at least start planting seeds without being obvious about - here's my link, go click and buy from me. And I think that's where people are getting a little more skeptical. Chris: One of the things that I always noticed, I was in web development for many years and the thing that I loved in web development was people that had bad web developers that would come to me, because of the bar was so low that really exceeding expectations was so easy. And I think that this is exactly the same thing where you've got somebody who doesn't have the presence of mind to say, hey, how can I help somebody to understand or have a different perspective on the question that's being asked? Like you asked and talk about solutions that work without it being a pitch and still make it clear that that's what you do, but it's more informational. And I think that this just creates this great platform to exceed people's expectations. But that's a great way to knock people's expectations about you down to pretty much the basement, don't you think? David: Yeah. And so much of it is just about being a decent human, you know, it seems so simple. It's like that book, Everything I Need to Know, I Learned in Kindergarten or something that was out had a long, long time ago. But that idea just sort of be nice to people, treat people well. It's all such basic stuff, but it's basic for a reason... because it's important. And I had a situation recently on LinkedIn where when somebody new would connect with me, I'd send them a greeting message and I would just basically say, “Hey, great connecting with you on LinkedIn. If there's anybody in my network that you'd like to meet, please be sure to let me know, I'd be happy to arrange an introduction.” because I figured, okay, that's just sort of offering something that's nice and helpful. And there was this one guy who replied back and he's like, “Well, why would you do that?” And I'm like, “Well, because if we're connected on LinkedIn, if there's somebody that you'd like to meet, if I know them, I'd be happy to arrange an introduction for you.” And he's like, “Well, how do you make money doing that?” I'm like, “Well, I wouldn't necessarily make money by introducing you to someone, but if it's helpful to you, this is supposed to be social networking. So this is an opportunity to network. That's why I figured I would do this.” I'm like, “You don't have to. If there's nobody in my connections you want to meet, that's fine. I don't have to introduce you, but I'm putting it out there, making that available.” So very skeptical, very skeptical. And so he finally came back and he came up with someb

Do prospects ghost you? We’ve all been through it. You have a great conversation with an excellent prospect. They say all the right things and respond to you perfectly. It sounds like an ideal match! The right product or service for the right prospect at the right time. We just need to iron out a few details to get things wrapped up, but then they stop taking your calls. They stop responding to email. They ignore your texts. So, what do you do when people ghost you? David: Hi and welcome to the podcast today cohost Chris Templeton and I will be talking about what to do when prospects ghost you. Welcome Chris! Chris: Hi David. You know, salespeople have been dealing with prospects disappearing forever, and this term ghosting. I just heard about it recently and I wasn’t quite sure what it was. It’s apparently not the scary kind of ghosting, but it’s really become popular as social media and texting have become more and more prevalent, hasn’t it? Need Help with This? Schedule a Call David: Yeah, it really has, and I think there's an argument to be made that this type of ghosting can actually be more scary. If you're in sales, it's probably scarier to have this kind of ghosting than to have what's traditionally viewed as ghosting. Chris: That’s a great point. David: And everybody has experienced this, as you've said, it's been happening forever. But this term is kind of interesting and I think from what I've seen, it's developed recently as part of the social media culture where you're having a conversation with someone and then they don't respond. And it's their turn to respond and they don't, and you send a text or you send a social media message and you don't hear anything back and they just basically disappear. So, while it's found its way into the personal culture, I think for anyone who's been involved in business or sales for a long time, they're totally familiar with the concept. They understand immediately and instinctively what it means. And of course, then the question is how do you make it go away? How do you keep it from happening? Which is what I'd like to talk about in this podcast. Did the Prospect Really Ghost You? Chris: Well and this goes back to that whole question that we've talked about of kind of our default definitions. And I think especially as salespeople, we have a tendency to go to the place of saying, “Oh my gosh, I've been ghosted.” When maybe I haven't even been ghosted. And so, when you look at it, how can you tell if someone's ghosting you or if they're just slow to respond and busy? David: Well, that happens a lot. There's a lot of times when people are just busy, they're tied up and they may not be intentionally ghosting you but you're not hearing back from them. And the only real answer to that is time is the final determinant of that. Time is the only thing that will tell you for sure whether they're ghosting you or whether they're just busy. If they're just busy at some point they will become less busy and you will likely hear from them again. But all of us in business have to determine sort of our threshold, our tolerance for pain. How long are we willing to endure a relationship that is completely one sided? If we're sending texts or if we're sending social media messages or if we're leaving voicemail messages for people, how long do we want that to go on? And there are some salespeople who will continue to pursue a prospect for months or for years. And I don't know, I guess that could work. I think to me it strikes me as a bit desperate. One of the things that we've always done in our organizations is we've sort of set a limit as to how many times we're going to continue to pursue a particular prospect. And I think it's a good idea for everyone to do. Say, “Okay, this is going to be my limit.” I'm going to go this far and then I'm not going to continue to do that. Part of it also though has to do with the messaging because the way that we communicate to people is also going to help to determine or dictate the response that we get. And if people just think you're going to keep chasing them and chasing them and chasing them and they just feel like you're going to be there whenever they decide to get back to you, then there's not a lot of incentive for them to do that in a prompt and timely manner. But if people recognize that your time is valuable as well and that you're actually looking for a response, then they might be more inclined, at least the ones who are serious might be more inclined to be more responsive. Chris: I think one of the things that we should dig in a little bit deeper on is, you said sometimes it's just a question of the messaging and you know, what - if all it is, is this sense of, Hey, what's going on? Or you know, I really want your business or that sort of thing. Talk about good messaging and how that can help this process along. David: Right. Well, some of this also goes back to what we had talked about in a previous

When it comes to growing sales and profits, there are strategies and there are tactics. And this question is designed to deal with your strategy. So what is your strategy for growing sales and profits in your business? Generally speaking, when we think of strategies versus tactics, the strategy is sort of the overall approach or game plan, whereas the tactics are the specific actions you’re going to take in order to have your strategy come to life. So your strategy, when you’re putting it together, and if you’re taking notes at this point, one of the things that you want to write down is you want to ask yourself, “what is my strategy for growing sales and profits in my business? Do I have one? If so, what does it cover?” Need Help with This? Schedule a Call Because essentially your strategy for growing sales and profits should cover things like who are you going to go after? Part of it would be to say, "what types of accounts am I going to go after? Where or how am I going to find those types of accounts?" These overall types of decisions are going to determine what your results are going to be, and they're also going to determine what specific steps you'll take or what specific tactics will help you to get to that. For example, you may determine that your strategy is to target companies with a certain number of employees or more, or companies that have certain gross sales. You may determine that you're going after companies that are located within a particular geographic area or in particular industries. So this is overall strategy type of stuff that everybody needs to do in order to grow sales and profits and accomplish what they're looking to accomplish. Your strategy might include establishing yourself as an expert with people, and if so, then you'll need to have specific ways of making that happen. It may include getting those people (that you've established yourself as an expert with,) to express interest in what you do, and your strategy might include following up then, only with the qualified prospects. So it's important to have that starting out, or if you didn't have it starting out, it's important having it going forward, so that you know essentially what you want to be doing everyday, what you want to be working on every day and what you want to be focused on every day. Without having a clear strategy in mind, it's easy to get bogged down and distracted and focus on various activities that are not helping you to produce a high multiple of what you want to be earning or what you want to be producing. So when you think in terms of your strategy, those are a couple of the things that you need to look at. Also, it's important to understand that your overall business strategy for growing sales and profits, it can and should change based on what's happening in the real world. If you have an inflexible strategy, you say "I'm going after a certain type of client in a certain market," and it turns out that group of clients in that market are not particularly productive at the moment, then obviously you have to be flexible enough to be able to change your strategy around so you can adapt it so that it actually works for you as well as possible. And then another important component of it is revisiting your strategy often. It's a good idea if you can bullet point out what your overall strategy is and tape it to your computer monitor so that you see it every morning and you can reconnect with it. Because what you'll find is if you do that, if you did something even as simple as that and said, "okay, this is my strategy, this is what I'm going after, this is where they are, this is how I plan to approach them." And you tack it up on your computer monitor and you look at it every day. I can pretty much guarantee that over a period of days, and certainly over a period of weeks, you'll end up changing it. You'll end up adapting it. You'll say, "well, I want to tweak what I said here because this doesn't really fully describe what I'm looking to do and what I'm looking to accomplish." And that's a really good exercise to do. That's a really important exercise to do, because what ends up happening is it helps you to further clarify exactly what you're looking to make happen and how you're looking to make it happen. And every day, every experience you have is going to help you to further hone that. So having it planned out like that can be extremely helpful. Your Business Strategy for Growing Sales Identify Your Strategy. What is your strategy for growing your business? What is it? What does it cover? Determine the Steps. Which specific steps or tactics will you take to implement your strategy? Adapt. Review your strategy and tactics frequently to be sure they're achieving your objectives. If you're tired of flat or declining sales and losing business to your competitors, be sure to check out my latest web presentation entitled Programming Clients to Choose You. Who are your very best

Is your business invisible? Many businesses and professional practices struggle, not because they aren’t good at their chosen profession, but because they’re essentially invisible to their target market. They may be great at what they do, but they’re not yet great at attracting, qualifying and converting enough high quality prospects into clients. So the problem isn’t competence, it’s entrepreneurial invisibility. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast today co-host Chris Templeton, and I will be discussing the fact that many businesses are essentially invisible to their ideal target markets. Welcome, Chris. Chris: Hi David. Entrepreneurial invisibility. I have never heard it phrased that way, but it makes a whole a lot of sense. You know, in the movies invisibility is like this superpower, but it’s not really an advantage in business, is it? David: Not so much. No. When you’re suffering from entrepreneurial invisibility, it means that the people who could most and best take advantage of what you offer, just don’t even know you’re there. They don’t even know you’re alive. So in Harry Potter, if you’ve got an invisibility cloak, it’s an advantage because you can sort of sneak around and find out what’s going on and people don’t know you’re there. But if you’re in a market and you’ve got an invisibility cloak on and people don’t know you’re there, it just means they’re going to buy from someone else. Chris: But isn’t it kind of an overstatement? I mean, most businesses really aren’t that invisible are they? Need Help with This? Schedule a Call David: I don't think it's an overstatement at all. Actually, I have seen over the years that many businesses are invisible to the people who matter most to them. Now, if they've got a client base, then obviously they're not invisible to those people; but if there are people in their market who could conceivably buy from them who don't know who they are, don't know what they do, have never been approached, I've never heard about them, doesn't recognize their authority in the marketplace… Then yeah, they are essentially invisible to those people. Most businesses that I talk to, they feel like they want to be able to attract more clients, they want to be able to bring in new prospects, they want to be able to convert more of the people they're already talking to. And a lot of that frustration stems from the fact that people are not seeing them, they're not seeing them for what they are. They're not seeing them for what they can do. And once again, if they can't see you, you're invisible. Chris: Well then, the only solution is a website. Right, David? David: We’re going to go back to that? Talking in the last three podcasts on how websites are not the cure for everything! Chris: Not the cure for everything! So you know, what do you think it is that is so common? Cause it is common in business, isn't it? This invisibility and this, I want to say it's almost a resistance to doing the things that create the visibility that we all want as business owners. David: Yeah, well a lot of people just don't even really think about it. I mean they don't think about the fact that they are invisible to the people that they really need to be visible to. That's probably not perfect English, but you get the point. Chris: Yeah. David: There are a lot of people in their market who just don't know who they are, and they've never really thought about fixing that situation. And one of the reasons that I titled this the way that I did, is that I want people to recognize that if you are in fact invisible to the people who could buy from you, then you're at a distinct disadvantage because they just have no opportunity to make that happen. So recognizing that it's the case, there are people who could buy from you but they can't because they don't know who you are. That's certainly the first step. And then adapting your approach, changing your approach so that you can take off the invisibility cloak and start being visible to the people who need to know you're there. Chris: So what does that look like? I mean, what do you think that we can do to help businesses to get to that place? David: Well, we're going to be hitting very specific action steps as we get toward the end of the podcast where we will give them a roadmap for that. But I mean the short version of it is that they're going to need to start thinking in terms of: who they need to approach, how they need to approach them, what they need to say, how they're going to say it, and how they're going to communicate it. So becoming visible to your prospects and clients, it's going to also involve identifying who those people are. And so, I mean, there are a number of steps to it, but we will get to all of that. Chris: So, do you think that if I'm a business owner who's invisible to my clients, is it fair to say th

I can’t tell you how many times people have told me that they need to bring in more clients before they can invest in either the training or the marketing that would allow them to bring in more clients. And while it’s easy to immediately recognize the flawed catch-22 logic of this situation, I can tell you that those struggling with customer acquisition right now are often blind to this fact and paralyzed into inaction. David: Hi and welcome to the podcast. Today co-host Chris Templeton and I will be talking about the Catch 22 of Inaction. Welcome Chris. Chris: Hi David! You know when you talk about this Catch 22 of Inaction, you’re not really talking about people being lazy or unmotivated, are you? I mean they could be working hard, putting in a ton of hours and sometimes all that action just does not create what they want in terms of sales. Need Help with This? Schedule a Call David: And that's exactly what happens. And you're right, it's not about being lazy. It's not about being unmotivated and they could be working a lot. In fact, a lot of them are. They're doing a lot of things that maybe are not working the way that they'd like. So yeah, it's not necessarily inaction in the sense of not doing anything. It's inaction in the sense of the wrong action. They're taking the wrong action. So maybe we should call it the Catch 22 of Incorrect Action. Chris: Ooh, I like that. David: Maybe that would be a better description. But really what we're looking at is having conversations with people who are too afraid to move forward because they seem to be stuck with whatever it is that they're doing. Chris: So, talk about that. Talk a little bit about when a client says to you, “You know, I need to get clients for my business, but you know, I just can't afford to spend anything on training or advertising that would allow me to start attracting those people.” What do you say to them? David: I say, what are you talking about? No, I don't say that. That's what I think. That's my inner monologue. Chris: Are you kidding me? David: It's a catch 22 you can't see that? You don't see that? Seems so obvious, but it always seems obvious to us when we know. It's like if you were playing chess with Bobby Fischer or whoever the current chess champion of the world is, that person is going to immediately recognize things that you might not always see. And so many business people, they love what they're doing, they're great at what they're doing, but they're not necessarily great at attracting the customers who need what they sell. So, they don't quite know how to do that. And so, they're doing things, they're taking actions that they think are going to help, but that, in effect, don't help. So, what I actually tell them is I first try to point out the catch 22 and in a lot of cases that's not particularly effective. I say, “Well listen, in a sense you're saying it takes money to make money and I don't have any money, therefore I can't make money, but I'm in business anyway.” So you need to sort of see it for what it is. Some people do see it, and some convince themselves that they're completely powerless and they insist on waiting until things get better. And I've heard that from more people than you'd think, where it's like, well, I can't do anything right now. I just need to wait until things get better and things do not just normally get better, particularly when you're taking the same action. It's Einstein's definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. We've all heard that a hundred times, but it lives, you know that statement lives on because it's so true. Those who see it, those who recognize, okay, I'm going to have to do something different, I'm going to have to break this cycle; can sometimes pull themselves out of it and take some action. They can say, all right, you know what? I'm going to find the money or I'm going to allocate the money. Even if it's a little, I'm going to set something aside to try to get something going here, and if they're willing and able to do that, then they can start to create different results, but the people who convince themselves that it really is a catch 22 I will absolutely do this once things get better. In a sense there's almost no hope for them, and I hate to say that, and it's not like there's completely no hope for them, but in a lot of cases, if they don't change that mindset, it's going to be very difficult for them to succeed. Chris: One of the things that I think about a lot is you can have two types of thoughts. One is problem-oriented thinking and the other is solution and I think what happens is, when you're in waiting mode, you've become beholden to those thoughts of the problem. You know? And I saw something recently that said, instead of saying I don't have the money to do that, how could I find the money to do that? Or I don't have the time to do that. If you switch the question, just change the questio

The holidays are here! So, in this podcast we’ll discuss how to make the very most of the holiday season in terms of planning, relaxing, networking, and strategizing. David: Hello, happy holidays and welcome to the podcast! Today co-host Chris Templeton and I will be discussing how to make the most of the holiday season. We’ve got a nice fire going, we’ve got some chestnuts roasting, a warm cup of holiday cheer. So, I’d say we are all set to get started. Welcome Chris. Chris: Hi David. Thanks for having me. Nice to feel so warm all over, ready for the holidays! David: Nice, isn’t it? Chris: So you are talking about the holidays and you’re also talking about talking business. Don’t our listeners deserve just a little break? David: Yes. And don’t we deserve a little break? Chris: Absolutely. David: Yeah, we probably do, but I think if many of our listeners are like me and perhaps like you as well, we may be thinking business even when we’re taking a break. Even when we’re relaxing, sometimes things are going on in the back of our minds. And I think a lot of us, during the course of the holiday season, we do like to take some time to sort of relax, recuperate a bit, but then as that happens we get a bit of a break in the action, and in a lot of cases that’s when some of our best ideas come to us, isn’t it? Chris: It certainly is. I was writing as you were talking about back of the mind. So much happens back there, especially when we give it a break and when we kind of turn off the front end activity, doesn’t it? Need Help with This? Schedule a Call David: Yeah, and that's why I really love this time of year because I think it's a great combination of that. Of course you're getting toward the end of one year, so you're able to think back in terms of what worked well and what didn't work as well. You're able to think forward in terms of what do I want to have happen next year and work toward that. You maybe get a little bit of time off, hopefully you do. If you're able to take the weekend before and you're able to take the weekend after and you get a break during the week, it does provide some opportunity to just sort of relax a bit, think about stuff and figure out where we're going next. Chris: And I think it's just a really important point to just say to your listeners: You know what? It's okay to relax. It's okay to take some time off and let that behind the scenes brain of yours work and come up with some new ideas. Give yourself permission to let yourself go a little bit for the holidays, don't you think? David: Yes. Not only is it okay, I would argue that it's necessary because if you don't do that, then you never really get to that point of rest where your brain can come up with things that it's sort of free-styling in a way. When you're focused too much on work all the time, you're just putting out fires or you're thinking about what needs to come next, then you end up getting stuck. And so, it's nice just to be able to clear your head a little bit, enjoy yourself, relax, and allow some new ideas and new thoughts to pop into your head. Chris: So when you think about it, what do you think the best mix of relaxation versus thinking, planning and strategizing should be? David: Well, I imagine it's going to be different for everyone. Some people already relax more than others and some people tend not to relax more than others. So depending on where you are on that spectrum, that's going to impact it. But if you are the type of business owner or salesperson or business professional who is constantly engaged, who doesn't take the time to just sort of throttle back for a little while and allow some time to pass and clear out your head, then this is really a great opportunity to do that. So if you're not doing it, I would encourage you to do so. If you are the type of person who takes regular breaks and mental hiatuses so that you can allow the thoughts to come to you, then great, you're already doing it; but when we look at that mix of sort of relaxation, creative thinking, planning, strategizing, perhaps goal setting this time of year. It's just a nice time to be able to take a little bit of time and do that. As far as percentages are concerned, I think that's going to vary, but in a lot of cases you'll know. If you're feeling burned out, if you feel like you just really haven't had an opportunity to chill out, then maybe you need to take a little more time this year than you've taken in the past. If you have a fairly balanced existence as far as that's concerned, then maybe it's not as much of an issue and you can think about some things in terms of what you'd like to have happen in the coming year and use the holiday season to be able to start processing those thoughts. Chris: I think about the person that you mentioned earlier that's going a hundred miles an hour. They're putting out fires all the time, and I think they're the on

Whenever I talk with the owner of a business or professional practice who is struggling to attract more clients, they inevitably tell me that they are either in the process of planning out a new website, or working with someone to build a new website, or updating or completely overhauling their existing website, and I am frequently forced to point out that a website alone is very unlikely to fix your business problems. David: Hi and welcome to the podcast today co-host Chris Templeton and I will discuss why a website will probably not fix your business problems. Welcome back Chris. Chris: Thank you David. Nice to be here. A lot of professionals seem to put so much stock that their website is going to grow and scale their business. What makes you think that it’s not going to solve their problems, David? David: Well, a website is usually an extension or a visual representation of the business, so if you’re not making enough sales then your website is only going to continue or amplify whatever is happening. It becomes a reflection of what you’re doing off the website, which obviously already isn’t working. So simply adding that to a website is not likely to change things, but it seems to be the Go-To thing. Everybody always is talking about this website like it’s going to somehow revolutionize their business. Chris: And so, are you saying that if you don’t have good sales that it’s more than just the website or is it only the website? Need Help with This? Schedule a Call David: No, the issue is definitely not limited to websites. In fact, it sort of goes back to what we talked about in a previous podcast about marketing vehicles that we used, and how some people put their entire faith in the marketing vehicle. In this case, the website, and completely forget about the fact that it's not just the delivery mechanism, i.e. the website, that matters. It's, you know, what's the messaging that's going on there? What am I trying to accomplish? Have I created this sort of greased chute that we've also talked about in previous podcasts? It's designed to attract people, pull them in, gather information, turn them from total strangers into prospects by giving me their information so that we can then have a conversation with them or interact with them and eventually turn them into clients. So people think that a website should automatically do that, but very often they're just not even built that way. They're not even designed that way. They're not well thought out, and they're certainly not designed to accomplish the kind of results that people often would like to get from a website. Chris: When you think about a website and the mistakes that professionals make, what do you think are the biggest mistakes they make in terms of their online presence and their websites? David: I think it starts with thinking that the website is going to be their entire solution. They think, okay, well once I have this website, everything's going to be wonderful. Now there are online businesses like Amazon, where the website is the business. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about, for most people who are in business, if you have a business or a professional practice and you're using a website; if you don't recognize that it's a tool. It's not a substitute for a sales team. It's not a substitute for a marketing department. It's a tool, like a business card or a brochure or a catalog or a vending machine. It's a tool and many websites are designed like that. Some are designed to be like a business card, or a brochure where it just provides information. Some are designed to be like a catalog where there's just tons of information and data that people can access. Some are designed to be a vending machine where somebody can come to it and they can order something and they can have it shipped to them or if it's digital they can digitally download it and they can place their order online and it happens like that. So there are situations like that where the website plays a more important role, but once again it has to be designed like that; and most businesses that I've had these conversations with are generally not website-centric. They are in a lot of cases, brick and mortar businesses or they're brick and mortar and they have an online presence and they want to utilize the website to be able to enhance that online presence, but they haven't really figured out how to do it. It's a little like building a house without having a blueprint first. Chris: And having a real clear understanding of where that website sits in the sales process too, wouldn't you say? David: Yeah, and the website itself may be symptomatic of the problem, but it's probably not the problem. In other words, there's something before the website that isn't working and if you don't identify what that is, then the website itself is not going to be likely to fix it. Another mistake, you'd asked about mistakes, and this one I think is a

In our Total Market Domination course, we identified Three Pillars to Creating Top of Mind Awareness with the very best prospects for the products and services you offer. Today, we’ll give you an overview of the 3 pillars so you can determine how well you’re implementing them in your own business. David: Hi and welcome to the podcast today co-host Chris Templeton and I will be discussing the Three Pillars to Creating Top of Mind Awareness. Welcome Chris. Chris: Hi David. You know in previous episodes we’ve talked about the importance of top of mind awareness and today we’re going to talk about three major steps that’ll help achieve it. So what are the three pillars? David: Okay, well, when we look at three pillars of creating top of mind awareness, it starts with positive, memorable, first contact. What’s going to be that first impression they get of us? From there it moves to lightning fast follow-up, having interactions with people that actually move, that allows you to create a little bit of momentum and be able to accelerate things; and then the third pillar is intelligent repetition of contact. Something we’ve certainly talked about before, but it is critical when you’re looking to create that level of top of mind awareness. Chris: Let’s start with memorable first contact. What percentage of businesses do you think do this effectively? Need Help with This? Schedule a Call David: Not a large percentage, at least in my experience. I think it's something that is often overlooked. People don't normally think about it. A lot of people don't even think of it in those terms. Many people think in terms of cold calling or prospecting or whatever. The reason that I use the term first contact is because I really like to make the point that whatever it is that you're doing first in your interaction with a new prospect is really going to set the tone and so when you're thinking about it in terms of what is the first contact going to be, you can be a little more fussy about it. You can really think through, okay, what would be the ideal scenario of a meeting with someone? Let's say you realized you're somehow going to end up meeting Bill Gates or somebody who has a lot of money and perhaps, an ability to spend money with you. You would want that interaction to be good. And the reality of the situation is that if you're smart, you want that kind of thing to happen with every prospect you meet; so that they're impressed enough to want to do business with you, regardless of whether or not you end up wanting to do business with them. You realize they're under-qualified, it's better if you get to say no than if they're saying no to you. Chris: Boy no kidding. And one of the things that I think that's important to talk about in regards to this positive, memorable first contact, is I don't think that a lot of businesses really think this through. Like, what can I say? What can I do that's gonna make that memorable? And so, talk a little bit about what it is in your mind that businesses can do to be more memorable, especially on that first contact; which matters so much, doesn't it? David: It does. And when I say positive and memorable and one of the analogies used in the past, a note wrapped around a rock thrown through a window is first contact, but it's not positive and it is memorable. So you want to make sure that you're accomplishing both. It needs to be positive and it needs to be memorable. And so when we decide what that's going to be, you initially think of something like a cold call and just the words by itself almost tells you, okay, is this really going to be seen as positive and memorable? And generally speaking, the answer is going to be no, but if you think through it and you say, okay, well what would that cold call have to be like if I wanted it to be positive and memorable? What would have to be said on that phone? And maybe there's no good answer to that, but the good news is that it doesn't have to be a cold call. There are lots of other ways of initiating first contact. It could be a direct mail piece, could be lumpy mail. You're sending them a gift in the mail in advance of contacting them some other way. It could be a video or some sort of post on social media. There are lots of different ways of initiating first contact. It could be a connection request on LinkedIn or a friend request on Facebook. So lots of different ways to do it that are going to each create a different impression. So when you think through the options and you recognize that there are really lots of different ways to do it, it just sort of opens things up for you. It allows you to realize that there's not just one way to accomplish this. And in most cases there's probably a better way than whatever it is that you're doing now. Chris: At some level, I almost wonder if the place to start, whether you plan on doing it or not, is the cold call approach from the standpoint of if I

It’s easy to get distracted in the blizzard of activities that we have going on all around us every single day. But unless those activities include a significant number of wins, you’ll never achieve the goals you’ve set for yourself. And if you don’t pay attention to your wins, it’s easy to become discouraged. So, are you winning today? And if so, are you tracking your wins? David: Hi and welcome to the podcast! Today co-host Chris Templeton and I will be talking about your daily wins. Do you have any, do you know what they are, and are you tracking them? Welcome Chris. Chris: Hi David. Thanks for doing this. This is a really, really important subject. It seems to me that every business owner or salesperson must accomplish wins on a regular basis or they wouldn’t be successful in what they do; but isn’t a win different for everybody? And why do you say it’s necessary to keep track of them? David: Okay, well, two questions there. Is it different for everyone? The answer there is yes. Certainly, depending on your job, a win could be something different. If I’m in accounts receivable than a win for me is collecting money, right? If I’m in sales than a win for me could be getting in front of a new prospect, finding a new market that I want to target, fine tuning my message to engage more people, initiating a new client outreach. There are lots of different things that could count as wins for me depending on my position within the organization, but from the standpoint of getting customers – as a business owner or as a salesperson, as any sort of professional who needs customers – then it’s really about looking at those types of activities. Things like meeting a new prospect at a networking function, or reactivating a previous client who hasn’t bought from you in a while, or getting a new prospect to close for the first time. So there are very specific things that during the course of the day are probably happening and if they’re not, then you want to make sure that you start getting more of those types of things going on. Chris: A big piece of this is really taking the time to recognize where you’re having successes because that really does fuel your performance as a salesperson, doesn’t it? Schedule a Strategy Session Click Here David: Yes. And when you take the time to do it and getting through the second part of your question, why is it necessary to track them? It allows you to realize what's going on. So very often on a day to day basis, we are just dealing with, you know, the whole whirlwind of events that's going on and it's easy to lose sight of the fact that we are moving forward in some areas and there are some days where we're not, let's be frank about it. There are some days where we're not, we're just putting out fires and we're not really moving the needle on anything. But when we take the time to track the wins and to recognize, okay, I want to get at least let's say three wins going today, what are three things that I could count as a win? Today, I can say I recorded a podcast that’s going out to lots of people. For me, that's a win, right? I had a chance to talk to Chris today. That's a win, right? It's two wins in one activity, but you can look at the different things that you're involved in and say, okay, what worked? I mean this morning I had several conversations with a couple of prospective clients, so that's two or three wins, right? Because I had those conversations. So you look at the activities you're engaged in and you say, okay, which of them count as wins? And which of them sort of just count as time-wasters or placeholders because it's a lot easier sometimes to track placeholders than it is to track wins. Chris: Right. And I look at this and I think, well, how do I define what a win is as a sales-guy or as a business owner? I mean, you've talked about a couple, but do you sit down and think about, okay, these are the things? And I think the other thing that comes to mind is just the whole idea of having consistent wins. What defines it and how do you create consistency? Does that become one of the definitions of a win? David: Well, if you're able to accomplish a few wins every day, that's your consistency component. If you have five wins today and then no wins for the next 10 days, that is not good consistency, that's not going to be good for your business. So I think recognizing and keeping track of the wins that happen on a day to day basis, that brings you the consistency component because it's very likely, as I said, that there are things that you are doing on a daily basis that are moving you forward. So getting back to the question about what defines a win; whenever you're taking a step that moves you forward in what you're looking to do, whenever you're engaged in positive actions that will allow you to know that you're creating the results that you want. That to me is a win.

Social media doesn’t work. Cold calling doesn’t work. Print advertising doesn’t work. Email is dead! Whenever an advertiser is unable to make a particular marketing vehicle work, they often blame the delivery mechanism and declare it either dead or ineffective. But what if the problem isn’t the marketing vehicle? What if it’s just the way you’re using it? David: Hi and welcome to the podcast. Today co-host Chris Templeton and I will be talking about marketing vehicles, which ones work, and which ones don’t. Welcome Chris! Chris: Hi David! In a previous podcast we talked about the MVP of marketing and sales. What’s the marketing message we’re communicating? Which combination of marketing vehicles will we use to communicate the message? And which people or prospects do we plan to reach? But today we’re going to take a closer look at the marketing vehicles and try to figure out why so many people tend to blame the marketing vehicle when things go wrong. What’s up with that? David: Yeah, what is up with that? Well, it’s easier than taking responsibility for the failure of any campaign. Because really what we’re talking about here in terms of any sort of communication is the MVPs. You know, what’s the message I’m conveying? Which combination of marketing vehicles will I use to communicate the message? And who are the people or prospects that I want to reach? So if I post a bunch of social media messages and no one responds… if no one likes it, nobody looks at it, it’s far easier for me to blame the media than to ask if what I’m posting is compelling enough. If I run a paid ad somewhere and no one responds to it, it’s easier for me to blame the delivery mechanism than it is to think that my well-crafted, beautiful offer is somehow inadequate or unappealing. It forces me to blame myself instead of the medium. And in a lot of cases it’s just easier to blame the marketing vehicle or the medium that we’re using. Chris: But that doesn’t serve us much, does it though? Schedule a Strategy Session Click Here David: No, because when a particular marketing vehicle isn't working for us, it doesn't mean the entire vehicle itself is flawed. It might just be the way that we're using it and when we understand that we're going to be on the path to be able to start to fix these things rather than just become a victim of them. Chris: Again, it goes back to the whole piece that we did on who's the buyer and looking at this and saying, what are the things that I need to look out for myself? It's so easy to blame the vehicle, but there's so many things that we can do to improve how we perform on any of those vehicles, including consistency. But let's start with cold calling. Lots of people are not big fans of it. It can be intrusive. It's usually unwelcome and it often disrupts a person's day. But is it effective? Is Cold Calling Effective? David: Well, it can be and cold calling is not my favorite form of first contact, but it doesn't really matter that it's not my favorite form of first contact because for some people it works very well. I mean, I personally don't like it from a positioning standpoint, but some people are great at it and they swear by it and they're able to generate customers with it. So from that standpoint, for them it is absolutely effective. That's where I think we run into trouble is just because cold calling is not my preferred method of initiating contact with a new prospect doesn't mean that it doesn't work. So if I say something like, "Oh, cold calling stinks, that doesn't work." It's just not true. It's not factually true. And no matter how much I dislike a particular marketing method, for me to summarily dismiss anyone's preferred method of marketing, it's not right. It's not honest. Because for some people, different types of marketing are going to work. Chris: And the other thing to keep in mind is if cold calling isn't for you, but you recognize its value, there are ways to get people to do the initial cold call. And let's face facts. For me as a business owner, once I know somebody who's interested, I have no problem with making the calls. It's that tough call, the cold call where I don't know if they have an interest, go find somebody who loves to do it. There are people out there that love to do it, aren't there? David: There are, and as I said, I mean I'm not a big fan of it myself. I have not made a cold call in a long time, but I have paid other people to do it. So, it continues to happen whether I'm doing it or not. Social media, email & advertising Chris: Yep. Good point. Should people focus on one primary method of communication or do you think it's better to mix it up? What's your sense on that? David: Well, I think it's definitely better if you mix it up. I tend to favor a varied approach because I think it creates a different experience when we do that. If

Until you get crystal clear on your basic messaging, who you serve and how you serve them, you’ll find yourself attracting either no clients at all or the wrong clients, and your customer acquisition efforts will take a whole lot longer. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. Today co-host Chris Templeton, and I will be talking about the idea of getting clear on your basic messaging. Welcome back, Chris. That’s my basic message. Chris: I like that basic message. You’d think that most business owners and salespeople would already be clear on at least their basic messaging, but that is not always the case, is it? David: No, it’s surprising how often it’s not the case. Very often people think in terms of just their products and services instead of the needs they fill and the problems they solve. And as we discussed in a previous podcast, there’s a big difference between product buyers and solution buyers. David: And there are always a lot more people who are willing to pay for solutions. So the better we get at crafting our messaging so that it’s directed to the things they really want and need in their lives and in their businesses, the better off they’re going to be in terms of getting what they need and the better off we’re going to be in terms of being able to provide the solutions they need. Chris: What do you think the biggest problems are in terms of people developing what their messaging is going to be? Schedule a Strategy Session Click Here David: I think a really big problem is that much of it is "me focused." It's all about me and my business and what I do and how I do things, and it's not enough about them. It's not enough about the prospects and clients that we're actually trying to appeal to. So if I had to rank them in order, I would say that's first too much me-centric communication. Chris: Yep. Product-Focused vs. Solution-Focused Messaging David: A second thing I would say is that it's product-focused instead of solutions focused, which is what we were just talking about a moment ago. When we're talking about the product itself or the service itself, then we're not focused on what it is that they're trying to accomplish. And before we can ever get to the solution, we need to sort of stir up the problem side of it a bit. So when we're talking to them about what they're looking to accomplish and what it means in their business or what it means in their life to accomplish this, that's what really gets them focused on the idea that they need it. And so when we leave out this component; talking to them about the issues they're facing before we recommend our solution, then we're missing out because they're thinking of it in terms of something that might be okay to have, but they're not thinking of it in terms of something that they really desperately need. Once again, that comes from focusing too much on our product and not enough on them and what they're looking for. Chris: Give people an example of what that looks like and a little more detail in terms of stirring up that need. David: Well, it’s depending on what it is that's being sold. If I start talking to you about sales training, for example, “Hey, we sell sales training, we help train salespeople and we're really good at sales training.” People think I don't necessarily need that. Why do I need that? But if we're talking to them about, “Hey, listen, how much are your salespeople costing you when they're out in the field and they're not doing the job that you've paid them to do? Have you had situations where you've got salespeople and they're out there approaching the wrong people and saying the wrong things? They're not closing sales and they're leaving long gaps in between communications? They're creating a situation where they give your business a black-eye because don't do what needs to be done in terms of communication? They fail to present what you're able to do and the way you're able to do it or the way that you want that to happen?” That's an example of creating a scenario where they look at it and say, “Oh wow. Yeah.” Either that is happening, in which case I might be able to see the need for sales training or they say, “No, that's not happening. All my people are great.” In which case they're not really qualified. Chris: And that's okay too. But you know, I think that that's really important in terms of getting to, what's the story that you can help them to be aware of? It's not doom and gloom. It's more about, Hey, these are the types of common things that I see from where I sit with the people that buy my products. They want to have their people be more effective or they want them to be communicating more often as salespeople. Those sorts of things really help to frame up and get the person who probably, especially if you're on an initial call is probably resistant anyway, and now what you've done is you've completely shifted the focus from me with the product to sell, to you

If you’ve ever had a conversation with someone who had zero power to make a decision, you understand how frustrating it can be. So today we’ll talk about how to get to the decision-makers. David: Hi and welcome to the podcast! Today co-host Chris Templeton and I will be talking about decision makers. Who are they, where are they and how do we get to them? Welcome Chris. Chris: Hi David. Well, it seems that most sales people understand the importance of getting to a decision maker, but many really haven’t ever been trained to, have they? David: It seems that way. Yeah. Chris: Where do they start? Because it really is something that I think a lot of people don’t get. As obvious as it is, like how do I actually do it? It’s a whole different thing. Schedule a Strategy Session Click Here David: Right. Well I think a lot of it starts with identifying who the decision maker is to the best of their ability. A lot of times we think just because someone's agreed to an appointment or just because we've gotten someone on the phone that they are in fact the decision maker and that is not always the case. So we want to start out by doing whatever we can to only make presentations to decision makers, which means we need to find out upfront as well as we can as much as possible whether or not the person that we're talking to has the ability to make the decision. Chris: Talk a little bit about how you have that conversation, because my sense is that one of the biggest issues a sales person has with getting to a decision maker is their fear of asking. What do you suggest that they say to somebody who they're not sure if they're the decision maker? David: Okay. Well first thing I would say is never assume that the person that you're talking to is the decision maker. It's really easy to do this but don't! Because we feel like I've got a live wire on the phone or I've got a live wire that I'm talking to and it's sometimes more fun to just sort of plow ahead and see what happens. But you could be shooting yourself in the foot if you do that. So the best way to do it is simply to ask and to get comfortable with the idea, you know, “Will you be making the decision on this or is anyone else involved?” It's really pretty straightforward. Now before you even get to a question like that, you want to determine whether or not they have any sort of interest. You want to get clear on what it is that you do and all that sort of thing. But once they've expressed interest in what you're talking about, it's a good question to get answered upfront. Chris: And I think that typically you've got to that place where they seem to be expressing interest. And now as a sales guy, I'm really excited to keep this movement. David: Right! Chris: And then to kind of throw a wrench in the works and ask if they're, the decision maker is tough, but the payoff is huge, isn't it? In other words, in terms of not having wasted time and also being sure that I'm getting to the right person who can make the decision. David: Exactly. Because the biggest wrench you can really throw into it, is making a beautiful presentation to someone who has absolutely no ability to buy from you. It's a much bigger wrench than simply asking the person if they are in fact the decision maker or if there are other people involved. Chris: Let's say that I've gone through the process of having the call, this person's expressed interest, for some reason I haven't got to the question about who the decision maker is and they want me to give a presentation. What do I do to make sure that the decision maker is actually there? David: Okay, well again, the first thing you want to do is ask, you know, “Are you the decision maker or are there other people involved in that?” and if there are other people involved in that, then you can say, “Hey listen, I don't want you to have to do my job for me. So it would, it makes sense for all of us to get together on the same call or at the same presentation?”. Some will say yes, some will say no. If there are some people who are control freaks, they are just very much into controlling the situation. They'll say, “No, you will make your very best presentation to me and then I will determine how much of that I pass onto the person who will actually be making the buying decision.” and when that happens we get to decide whether or not we want to move forward, right? We can decide, okay, well that doesn't really make sense for me to be able to put this together for someone who has no ability to buy and we may choose to say, “Okay, well you know, I'm sorry, we just don't do business that way.” and you can step away from it. On the other hand, if they have been delegated with this task, they're supposed to be gathering all the information and they're supposed to be bringing it back to the decision maker and they're sort of in the same boat where you are essentially, they're sort of forced to gather this information and present it. Then we

It’s great when people just want to buy our products and services, but product buyers are only ever a small part of the entire market. So how do we get to all the others who could be good prospects for us but don’t even know they need our solutions? Target solution buyers! David: Hi and welcome to the podcast today co-host Chris Templeton and I will be discussing the difference between product buyers and solution buyers. Welcome Chris. Chris: Hi David. This is a great topic and really interesting when we look at the difference between a product buyer and a solution buyer, is there really a big difference or is it not that big of a deal? Product buyers are great David: Good question. I mean, if somebody just wants to come and buy our product, then that’s great, right? We don’t really care too much beyond that, but maybe we should. And here’s what I mean by that. Somebody comes to us out of the blue, let’s say completely unsolicited and they want to buy what it is that we have to offer. Okay, well we can just sell it to them and we can be happy because we made a sale and they can be happy because they got what they wanted. But if we think back to what we talked about in a previous podcast, the idea of creating customers as opposed to just making sales, then we recognize that this is not exactly a great recipe for doing that. And so if we want to really be able to service people on an ongoing basis and turn them into ongoing clients, raving fans, the types of things that we want, then we probably want to move beyond the idea of just getting them what they want and trading products and services for cash and getting to the point where we’re really helping them to solve the problems that they have. Chris: And when you get to work with a solution buyer, it’s a whole different ballgame, and from my standpoint, a whole lot more enjoyable and rewarding. Solution buyers can be even better David: Yeah. Because when you’re able to help people with their problems, their issues, the things that are really driving them crazy, it is very rewarding. You feel like you’re actually helping someone while earning a good living doing it. So, it’s sort of the best of all worlds. Chris: And that’s the fact for the buyer. They’re feeling like you have taken this to a place that’s beyond just, “Hey, here it is, and this is the price”. And it really is how a lot of people work and don’t understand how much more fun and how much more enjoyable what they’re doing could be if they were solution providers as opposed to just a product provider. Right? Schedule a Strategy Session Click Here David: Right. And if people are struggling with this issue, the thing they need to keep in mind is that every product you sell, every service you sell solves a problem. Because if it didn't, no one would want to buy it. And I mean you say, okay, well what about selling a pack of chewing gum at the grocery store? It solves a problem. That person has a need that they need to fill, I need to chew, and they're going to buy this pack of chewing gum. Right? So it may be a minor need, it may be a major need, but there is an issue. There's something they're looking for. There's something that person craves that they don't have, that they're willing to trade their money for. And as business people, this is one of the main things that we have to look at. What are the things that we can provide that will help people to get what they're looking for? Chris: So are we clear with the audience that really focusing on solution buyers is a much better approach in business? David: Yeah, I think so. But also just the idea that nearly every buyer is to some extent or another, whether they realize it or not, a solution buyer. So as we talked about at the top of the podcast, and we're talking about this idea of somebody who just comes in and buys, they're coming in and they're buying because there is a need that they have to have filled. So if they come to you and they order something and you deliver it, you want to try to extrapolate from that, okay, what are they trying to get out of this purchase? What's the result that they want? Because if they purchased this one thing and it got them this result, is there something else that we could offer that would help them to further that result and get more of that result? Help them to expand the results they're getting. When you adopt that mindset, once again, you're getting inside of their heads more so than your own and you're trying to figure out what are their issues, what are their problems? What needs to be solved and how can I help them to solve it. So it's just a much more giving sort of approach that ends up resulting in more business. Chris: So, is really the difference between the two - a product buyer and a solution buyer, my approach as a salesperson? David: Well it can be your approach as a salesperson, it can be their perce

We all have the same 24 hours in a day. It’s fixed. It’s inflexible, so earning more in less time is less about managing time, and more about managing ourselves. David: Hi and welcome to the podcast today co-host Chris Templeton and I will be talking about a subject that is near and dear to many of our hearts, how to earn more money in less time. Welcome Chris. Chris: Hi David. In the interest of time, I suppose we should get right down to it. It seems to me that most people struggle with how to get it all done in the time they have available. How do you recommend our listeners get around this really big issue, and common issue frankly? David: Yes, many people do struggle with how to get it all done in the time they have available, and so one of the first things we need to look at is what exactly is it that we’re doing? What are the activities that we are engaged in on a daily basis and how many of them really need to happen? How many of them are absolutely critical to our mission, to our success, to everything that we’re doing on a day to day basis. Because if you examine the activities you’re engaged in, what you will very likely find is that there are things you’re doing right now that simply don’t move the needle. And so by identifying those things up front as quickly as possible, you can start to adapt and change the things that you’re doing so that you’re going to be able to better monetize the hours that you’re putting into your work week. Chris: So, when you look at this and identifying your time, what you’re doing with it, I think it’s a tough one for people to see. What are the solutions? Is it just getting a to do list together to start to understand that? What do you recommend? Schedule a Strategy Session Click Here David: Well, a lot of people use to do lists and you're far better off having one than not having one. But if you're like most people with to do lists, you've got way too many things to do and not enough time to do them all. Chris: Right. David: Which goes back to what we were talking about a moment ago, which is identifying which of the things on the to do list actually need to get done. Because if there are things on there that are simply taking up time and taking up space and that aren't going to accomplish what it is that you're looking to have happen, then you're better off not having them on there. So, what I would say is if you've got a to do list, probably one of the first things that will help you is if you're able to begin to turn your to do list into calendar items. So, I'm moving it from something that maybe should be done at some future point in time to something that I'm actually going to be working on today. And so if I identify the top two or three or at most five things, that I really feel like I need to accomplish today and I turn them into calendar items, then those five items out of the thirty, fifty or a hundred that are on my to do list all of a sudden become actionable. They become a lot more valuable to me because I've chosen them out of all the others to take action on today. Chris: That's a great approach and it really gets you to lock yourself in because you've got a little reminder that says, "Hey, it's time to do this project and let's get going." And if you follow that, you really are kind of prioritizing and focusing on what's the most important thing I can be doing today. David: Right. Priorities are always more important than activities. Chris: Well talk about that. What do you mean by that? David: Well, activities are just things that we do. So I'm doing different things. I'm going to go pour a glass of water or I'm going to type a note to a friend. I'm going to send an email, I'm going to take a phone call. They're all activities, priorities are the activities that we've decided are the things that we really want to do today that we've decided we are going to do today. And simply prioritizing them and saying, “Okay, rather than just engaging in fifty random actions, I'm going to engage in four or five strategic actions that are going to help me move closer to my goals.” I believe the book 4DX, the Four Disciplines of Execution talks about the difference between lead measures and lag measures. So, if I'm looking to accomplish a goal, let's say I want to bring in five new clients by the end of the week, that's a lag measure. I'm only going to be able to measure it after it's happened, so I can't really act on that. What I have to act on instead are the lead measures, what are the things that I need to do now before the end of the week to bring those five customers in. So it might be identifying who those customers are, it might be reaching out to them, what's the first contact I'm going to do to engage with them and then letting them know who I am and then trying to schedule a time to talk with them or get with them on the phone or whatever it is. So there are specific activities

Time after time when I ask our clients about topics they want to know more about, the subject of attracting larger clients comes up. So, in this episode we’ll tackle it head on and address the steps you can take now to attract the larger clients you want to have. David: Hi and welcome to the podcast today co-host Chris Templeton and I will be talking about attracting bigger clients. Welcome Chris. Chris: Hey David. Thanks for having me. Bigger clients, nearly everyone in business in sales just loves the sound of that. But sometimes our actions, David, they aren’t geared towards getting those results, are they? David: No, unfortunately they’re not. And a lot of times when I’ve had these conversations with clients and they talk about the idea of getting bigger clients and then we talk about what they’re actually doing, what we find is that they’re not in front of people who ever have the capacity to be bigger clients and so it’s very easy to pinpoint the problems just right from the get-go. Chris: And that is kind of the function of starting in business and just taking anything that works. And then over time just not really doing the things that helped me to get there. But I also think that businesses in general have a hard time with this idea of, you know, how do I go to these people who have the bigger dollars, who are willing to buy from me? And how do I go through the process of positioning? It’s a big question for people and I think it’s not often well answered by business owners or salespeople, frankly. Schedule a Strategy Session Click Here David: Yeah, there's certainly an element of fear in a lot of situations when it comes to approaching larger clients because we're afraid we're going to blow it. We're afraid we're going to say the wrong thing, and so in many cases we just don't even approach. It's like the Wayne Gretzky quote, I miss 100% of the shots I don't take. And so many people don't take those shots and as a result, they never get that business. So, I think a good step toward overcoming that fear is recognizing that buyers are human beings, no matter if they have the ability to buy a little or they have the ability to buy a lot. They're human beings and so if you approach them as human beings and you see if you can provide them with what it is they're looking for, then regardless of the size of the business, regardless of the size of their purchasing power, they're going to be happy to hear what you have to say. So, to overcome that is to identify, okay, who are some of these people? And maybe getting into conversations with a few of them, trying not to be intimidated, and some of them might be intimidating. Some of them might just be rude or obnoxious or any of the other disqualifiers that we talked about in a previous podcast. It doesn't mean that that's all of them. You can have a very poor-quality prospect who can be rude and obnoxious and can come across as if they have a huge budget when they actually have no money at all and they're about to go out of business. So, you run into a lot of the same potential issues, whether you're dealing with a high-quality client or a low-quality client. Chris: I'd argue that in a lot of situations, those smaller clients, you're going to work a lot harder for a lot less versus larger clients where you're going to work well for an appropriate amount of income and enjoy the process more because you're dealing with somebody who's got good sales coming in, got a good income, and when you're dealing with these people, you want to think of it that way, that these are people that I can help and they can help me as a result. David: Yeah, some small clients are great and some small clients are terrible. Same thing with large clients. So it's really very much the same thing because again, people are people. So when we look at it and we say, all right, do I want to bring some larger clients in? And if the answer's yes to that question, then obviously your actions are going to have to change to adapt to that. Chris: Right. And yet at the same time, it's not becoming something that you don't want to be. And I think that that's part of this fear piece as well this, "Oh my gosh, am I worthy of this person and their business? Are they smarter than me?" Those kinds of things and the best way, like you said earlier, is to just go out and start to talk to some of these people. It doesn't have to be a sale right out the gate, does it? David: No, it certainly doesn't. And those conversations are going to tell you a lot and the main thing they're going to tell you is that some of the people you talk to are going to be great. Some of them are going to be terrible and some that are going to be in between. Just like everybody else. Chris: You mean just like life? David: Yeah, exactly! It's just like life and the primary difference is that when you're interacting with people who have the ability to place the larger orders an

David: Management Guru Peter Drucker once said, “The purpose of business is to create a customer.” Does that mean just selling stuff or is there more to it than that? Is it really about creating a customer? Chris: (Laughs) Oh, it’s just selling stuff. David Yeah, it’s just selling stuff… that’s it. David Hi, and welcome to the podcast today co-host Chris Templeton and I will be talking about the idea of creating customers. Welcome back, Chris. Chris: Hey David, thank you for having me. It’s a pleasure to be here. You know, in a way it seems obvious that business owners and salespeople need to be creating customers, but that doesn’t always appear to be the focus does it? David: No, it really doesn’t. I think we lose sight of this and that’s why I think it’s an important topic to talk about because this idea of creating customers is just so critical to business owners, to salespeople, to anyone who is in the profession or anyone who is required to grow a business, that it really can’t be overstated. When we think in terms of creating customers, there’s just such a distinction. If I make a sale to someone, then technically that person has become a customer of mine. But again, if the goal at that point is simply to sell them something and that’s happened, well now it moves into the past. And so from my standpoint, the idea of creating a customer means you’re finding someone who is likely to come back to you again and again and again and is essentially going to serve as an annuity to grow your business, because you’re going to know that over a period of weeks, months, years, that this person is going to help to contribute to what you’re looking to build and you are certainly going to look to contribute to what they’re looking to accomplish. Chris: It seems to me, and I can speak from experience; that one of the hardest things to do is to create that repeat sale, to create that business relationship. And I think it’s so easy for businesses to say, ah, let’s just move on to the next one. And then they start feeling guilty about not staying in touch with the customer. What’s the secret sauce of creating customers versus just making a sale? Schedule a Strategy Session Click Here David: Well, if you start with what it is that you want to accomplish, and you go into each relationship with the idea of creating a customer, then a lot of your actions will naturally follow. But if you're just going in with the idea of "I need to make this sale today", you tend to think more in terms of product. You tend to think more in terms of the things that you have to say and the responses you have to get, as opposed to thinking about the person and how can I help this person to achieve their objectives? Because when your focus is on them and identifying their needs and how you can help them with their needs, you become far more valuable to them. And as a result, you're going to become a far more likely to create the value they need, where they're going to want to come back to you again and again and again. You can't force people to do it. The only way they're going to come back is if they were happy with what you did the first time. So in a lot of cases when we're initiating contact with someone for the first time and we're giving them an idea of what we're going to be able to do for them, they're having to take us on blind faith. They can look at testimonials if we have those on our website or whatever. They can hear what other people have said about us in the past, but until they've actually placed that first order with us, it's all just kind of hearsay to them. Chris: Right. David: So, getting to that point upfront where you create that relationship where they feel comfortable enough to play that first-time order with you is a big step. Once that happens, then you have to be able to deliver. So it's not just a matter of I said all the right things and you placed an order, but I took the order, I processed the order correctly. You got what you needed, it helped you accomplish the objectives you set out when you decided to buy the thing. You feel good about it. Now you're going to be a lot more likely to come back. So, repeat business and this idea of creating a customer is far more than just our marketing. It's far more than just what we say or how we say it. It's really about how we live our lives, how we live our business, and those are the things that are going to determine whether or not somebody is a one-time order or an ongoing client. Chris: And I think that the really big point is, you said earlier, we're focused on them and as part of our focus on them, we're going to do things that are gonna help to generate that next sale. But we're always focused on what's best for them and how we can help them. And after you've got past the trust of building the first sale, then it's about maintaining it, isn't it? And doing it authen

Talk of social media in sales is all the rage and everyone is frantically trying to crack the code of how to get clients. But is social media really all that different from other forms of customer acquisition? The truth is that getting clients via social media is not just about posting. David: Hi and welcome to the podcast today co-host Chris Templeton and I will be discussing social media and how to use it to get clients. Welcome back, Chris. Chris: Thank you David. Nice to be here. You know, let’s just get going with social media and using social media to obtain clients. I get this sense that people really seem to see social media as a necessary part of prospecting these days, but there is a whole lot of confusion about it. So, let’s start with this: Is social media really necessary for prospecting or is it all just a lot of hype? Is Getting Clients Dependent on Social Media? David: Well, that’s quite a decision, right? Is it necessary or is it a lot of hype? I would say it’s probably both in the sense that it can be necessary, it can be very effective for people, but when it’s done improperly, then it really can end up being a lot of hype. One of the things that I see happening, Chris, is that a lot of people think in terms of just sort of pumping out content and putting stuff out there. And the problem with content is, you know, when you even think of the definition of what that is, what is content? It’s something that’s inside of something, right? It could be bad, it could be great, could be somewhere in between. We just don’t know. So, when people take the approach that they’re just going to go out there and they’re going to go on social media and build a presence out there and just sort of be present, then it might not accomplish their objectives. It will certainly get them in front of people, which can be helpful. But unless you actually have some ideas and some goals in place for it, it’s going to be very unlikely to accomplish the objectives they want. Chris: So, when you look at what content should be, what’s kind of the basic recipe for that? Because I think some people think, well, here’s what I’m going to do. I’m just going to put up a bunch of stuff about why you should buy my product. And then I think you get the other end of the spectrum, like you mentioned, where you’re just putting up stuff that really doesn’t… how’s this really helping? David: Right. Schedule a Strategy Session Click Here Chris: So, when you look at it, what's kind of the recipe that you see as being a great starting point? David: Well, there are a couple of aspects of it just in terms of appearing in social media. So, there's the personal aspect. Are there things that you can put up there that will let people know who you are so they can relate to you as a human being? Now, if you love cats and you're posting cat videos every 10 minutes, then that's going to create an impression of you that might not be consistent with everything that you need to go along with your business persona. Right? So, it's a balancing act. What can I let people know about myself that will let them feel like they know me as a person, but that will not necessarily take away from how they're going to view me as a professional? Starting with that and saying, okay, I want to evaluate what makes sense to put out there from a business standpoint. So, if there is something that lets them know about my expertise, that type of content is often very helpful, and people can also go overboard with that. You can get on social media and you can be providing lots of great ideas, lots of great information. I mean this podcast is sort of an example of that. In this podcast we tackle ideas that people pay for, you know, we provide content that people would actually pay for. And so, it's possible to go overboard and deliver more content to the point where people feel like they don't even need to do business with you because you're giving them so much free stuff. And so, the balance is there. So, if you look at it from the standpoint of the personality, what am I letting them know about myself? Authority, what am I letting them know about what I'm able to do for them and how I'm able to help them? And then from there to the extent there's going to be any sort of pitch, which is what you were talking about, people who go out there all the time, they're just trying to sell stuff. Where's the balance? And so, to the extent that there's a pitch and a lot of cases, it just needs to be about how they can reach out to you, how they can get in touch with you and potentially work together if it makes sense. Because in every audience there's going to be some percentage of the market that's going to be interested in working with you. It's not likely to be all of them. And so, a lot of what we need to do in social media is to present ourselves in a way that is goin

Everyone knows that it’s far easier and less expensive to sell the clients we already have and yet very few put in the time to consistently engage and re-qualify their existing clients. It all boils down to the Five Levels of Qualification. David: Hi and welcome to the podcast. Today co-host Chris Templeton and I are here to talk about all the benefits of engaging and re-qualifying your existing client base. Welcome Chris! Chris: Hi David. Thank you and welcome. I bet most salespeople and business owners feel like they’re doing a pretty good job of engaging their clients, but what is it that you mean when you talk about re-qualifying them? David: Well, it’s a couple of things, and I think probably you’re right. Most business people do feel like they’re doing a reasonably good job of engaging their clients. Some feel like they know they should be doing more or they should be more consistent about it, but most people at least know they need to be engaging their clients. What many of them don’t seem to recognize is that every time you bring a new prospect through the door, obviously you need to qualify them to find out whether or not they are essentially qualified to do business with you. Do they have the need, the desire, the money, the budget, the willingness to spend? And if they don’t have those things, then they’re not really qualified. And the same thing applies to clients. When somebody has purchased from you, it doesn’t mean that they’re automatically going to purchase from you again and again and again. So we need to consistently re-qualify our clients to find out where they are in that process so we can determine when we need to be in touch with them, what we need to be in touch with them about, so that we can continue to advance the process and get them what they need. Chris: But one of the things that occurs to me is that for a lot of people, we take that initial qualification and assume that nothing’s changing. I almost wonder if a lot of us stopped really listening for what’s changed and re-qualifying really would help in terms of seeing what’s new. It’s almost about listening, isn’t it? David: It really is and I think for a lot of people they seem to think that whatever qualification they did the first time around was like a life sentence and it’s just going to stay that way and it’s never going to change. And the fact is that it pretty much changes or resets each time someone orders from you after they’ve gotten what it is that you have to offer. How long is it going to be before they need it again? Is it going to be a minute or is it going to be a month or is it going to be three years? Because the answers to those questions are really going to be determining the ongoing value of the clients you’re bringing through the door and taking the time to re-qualify them. Schedule a Strategy Session Click Here Chris: Also keeps you aware of what new opportunities are, that sort of thing. But do you qualify an existing client the same way you would qualify a new client? David: You do essentially, obviously your approach is going to be slightly different because you know them better. But really what you need to find out is where they are in terms of the buying process. And one of the things that very few salespeople and business owners realize is that every single prospect you will ever come into contact with will fall into only one of five levels of qualification. That's it. Every single one. A lot of times we just think in terms of well they're qualified or they're not qualified or I'm not sure if they're qualified. Those are not the categories. Chris: Those aren't them? That "I'm not sure" isn't a good one? The Five Levels of Qualification: Level 1 David: Well I guess it counts as one, but it's no, it's not a good one. And when you're looking at qualifying your prospects and your clients, what you want to do is think in terms of one of five levels of qualification. The first is are they ready to buy now? And those are the ones that all the sales people are looking for. So would you like to place an order with me? And very often the answer to that question is no, because there's only ever a relatively small section of the market that is going to be ready to buy right now. So if we're only targeting those people, we're limiting our access. We're limiting our sales ability because it's only ever going to be a few. But that's the first level of qualification “I'm ready to buy now. So glad you called Chris because I really need a place in order.” We love it when it happens, but it doesn't happen as often as we'd like it to. The Five Levels of Qualification: Level 2 The second level is those who have specific dates in mind. “No, not ready to buy now, but I would definitely like to do this in November, another 60 days or so and I'll be ready to go.” And so that's the second group. So those people, depe

Success in sales is dependent upon intelligent repetition of contact, without being a pest. We need to be able to reach out to people lots of times, in lots of different ways and keep them engaged with us and very few salespeople have mastered this skill. David: Hi and welcome to the podcast! Today co-host Chris Templeton and I will be talking about how to create intelligent repetition of contact with prospects and clients. Hi Chris. Chris: Hi David. Thanks for having me. I’m really, really excited to talk about this one because I think it’s so, so important. Repetition of contact, you know, it seems that any sales position requires this. What is it that gives you the sense that salespeople aren’t doing this or maybe just as importantly, aren’t doing it well? David: Couple of things, if you’ve ever heard a salesperson say, “I don’t want to be a pest,” that to me is a screaming red flag, right? Because what that generally means is they’re not following up with people enough. They’re not being in touch enough because they don’t want to create waves. They don’t want to bother the person or whatever. And to me that’s a function of not being very clear about your outcome for the conversation because your goal is not simply to follow up with people and get on the phone and nag them until they’re ready to buy. If you are doing that, then yes, that’s being a pest, but don’t do that. You know? Think in terms of what you actually want to accomplish, have reasons and excuses for contacting people so that when you are reaching out, you’re actually providing value in the conversation, in the communication. If you do that, you’ll be advancing the dialogue. You’ll be helping your prospects and you will not come across as a pest. Chris: And I imagine that the other thing is that if a sales guy says, “I don’t want to be a pest,” especially to a potential client, they already feel like they are one. David: Well, yeah, because you’re planting that thought in their mind, the fact that you’re thinking it and then let alone vocalizing. Even if you don’t say it, if you’re thinking, “Oh, I’m afraid I’m going to be a pest,” it’s going to come through in your voice and you’re not going to sound as confident as you need to sound and it’s not going to be helpful. If you actually say it out loud, “Hey listen, I don’t want to be a pest.” Then immediately their thought is you just said you don’t want to be a pest. I now have to process the word pest in my brain and then draw a line through it because you’re saying you don’t want to be that. And maybe just by saying it, you’re being a pest. So, I think it could be a self-esteem thing, but if you can just sort of get over this idea that you’re being a pest. Part of it though, and I always believe that confidence is tied to competence. If we’re good at what we do, we’re going to feel a lot more confident doing it. And so if you’re not quite sure what to do, what to say, who to approach, how to approach them, then yeah, you’re going to feel like that. And you might feel like you’re being a pest, so if you’re feeling that way before you go into the call, ask yourself, “Okay, what can I do to add value in this communication so that what I’m saying to them is helpful to them.” because then that way I can be reasonably assured that I’m not being a pest. Schedule a Strategy Session Click Here Chris: Isn't a big piece of that in terms of adding value in a conversation about really being focused on your prospective client as opposed to focused on selling the product? David: Absolutely. Focused on their results. What is it that they want to accomplish? What do they need to have happen as a result of making this purchase? Just focusing on their goals, their desires, their outcomes, and when you're focused on them it becomes a lot easier. I remember one of the first live training presentations I did, it was in Las Vegas and it was a really long session. It was actually a full day training. Essentially it went from 9:00 AM until 5:00 PM with breaks about every couple of hours. And I was young and stupid, so I was just so fired up that I didn't really care. And so I went in and I did that, you know, I did the presentation and it went very well and I was very happy with it. And someone came up to me afterwards and said, “Wow, weren't you nervous when you were doing that?” And my immediate response was that I really wasn't. And the reason I wasn't nervous is because I wasn't thinking about it from my standpoint. I wasn't thinking, “Oh, I have to get up and talk to these people.” I was so excited to share what I had to tell them that it was all about them and I could get up there and be excited about it and not feel nervous because I knew th

Many businesses spend a ton of money recruiting salespeople, but then ignoring the ones they have. David: Hi and welcome to the podcast, today co-host Chris Templeton and I are here to talk about the terrible practice of spending lots of money to recruit new salespeople and then spending little to nothing to help the very people that they’ve recruited. Welcome Chris! Chris: Thank you, David. Well, what are you so worked up about on this one? David: What am I worked up about? I guess I’m worked up because I’ve been doing sales training and marketing training for much of my adult life. Nearly all of my adult life has been involved in sales and marketing in one capacity or another, and when I see this practice, it just sort of drives me crazy because it feels like people are saying they don’t care about their salespeople or they certainly don’t care enough, but what they’re saying is, “Hey, glad to have you aboard, now I’m going to go find somebody else!” Right? It’s about piling up and stacking up salespeople with the idea that it’s sort of a revolving door and some people will spin out and some people spin in and the good ones might or might not stay. And I just think it’s such a short-sighted practice. And as I mentioned in a previous podcast, I’ve done a lot of work in the promotional products industry where this practice is rampant. There are ads everywhere trying to recruit other people’s salespeople. So the whole goal is that I want to try to get people at other companies to come work for me, right? And other people at those companies are trying to get my people to work for them. So there’s this whole thing going on where it’s this big sales person swap and they’re so focused on creating this vortex of salespeople moving from organization to organization to organization that they forget that once they’ve recruited these people, if they were to simply help them a bit; simply train them on what’s going to work well and what’s not going to work as well, that they can be more successful. Their business could be more successful, their sales people can be more successful. It’s more success all the way around and I just think this is ignored or avoided entirely too much. Chris: I one hundred percent agree with you. Talk about what you can do to help a manager to change from being, “Let’s see what sticks on the wall” to really taking care and helping their salespeople to become better at what they’re doing. What is required in a sales manager’s mindset to make that transition David? David: Well, part of it is the salesperson or the sales manager rather, and part of it is the ownership. If the ownership is not willing to put any sort of funds behind it, then it’s just not going to happen. But if a sales manager can just think in terms of, “What can I do to help and nurture this salesperson so that this person can get in front of the right people, be more likely to be saying the right things, be putting the best foot of the business forward?” That’s the thing that drives me crazy, is the idea that a business would spend tons of money to recruit someone in and then just turn them loose and say “Go ahead, knock yourself out.” In the promotions industry in particular, a lot of times these people are independent contractors and so management will very often use that as an excuse. They’ll say, “Well they’re independent contractors so we can’t force them to do anything.” Which is true, but you can offer it – and the ones who are likely to take you up on the offer are the ones who are going to be the ones you want to keep. Cause the ones that don’t want to do it anyway; they don’t want to learn anything new, they don’t want to grow. They’re not going to be as valuable. So simply by offering salespeople the option of learning things that would help them to increase their sales and improve their profit margins, they’re going to be a lot better off. Schedule a Strategy Session Click Here Chris: And think about, we're talking sales and marketing here. Think about how important it is that message that you're giving to the salesperson that you care about them beyond recruiting. David: Yeah. Well, I think a lot of times it doesn't even occur to them. You know the business owners are so focused on just bringing new people in that it doesn't even occur to them that they should be treating the people they have better. As a sales principle, we all know that it is far easier to resell an existing client than it is to go out and find a new client. But in this particular case, I think some business owners and some managers lose sight of the fact that the assets they have, the people that they have who have said, "I'm going to dedicate my time, my day, my life to your business." deserve some level of respect and some

Some people say that education is never wasted. I completely disagree. My feeling is that unapplied education may be the biggest waste of all. That’s why the LAIR Method, our 4 step success cycle is so powerful David: Hi and welcome to the podcast. Today co-host Chris Templeton and I will be talking about education, specifically education designed to help businesses sell better and how that education is always wasted unless it’s being applied. Welcome Chris! Chris: Hi David. This is a fascinating point and it’s interesting that you would take a well-known phrase like education has never wasted and completely turn it on its head. Are you just trying to be provocative? David: No, not at all. I think the reason that I’m saying it is because I really believe it. Every time I heard that expression, even as a child, I always questioned it. I’m like, what do you mean education is never wasted? It seems to me that if you learn something that you never ever use, then that’s kind of a waste. I think it’s part of the reason why as a child there were some classes that I just couldn’t get into because I felt like I was never going to use this information. Now, I’m not suggesting that people use that as an excuse not to learn stuff. On the contrary, what I’m saying is that if you’re learning something, particularly something that’s designed to help you to sell better or improve your business or improve your life, then definitely learn it to the best of your ability, but make sure that you implement it as well. Chris: It’s a great, great point. If we’re not applying it, there’s just not a whole lot of point in it is there? David: None that I can see. Chris: So rather than learning what to do, a lot of salespeople simply wing it. What’s the likelihood of that working? I mean, that will work won’t it? David: Well it might, but it’s pretty much slim to none. Out of a hundred salespeople who wing it. There might be a small percentage who may do great with it. It’s entirely possible, but the people who actually are taught: what to do, how to do it, who to approach, how to approach them, what to say, how to say it – have a much better likelihood of success because they’re not trying to reinvent the wheel. And that’s where, particularly in a career like sales, if you don’t take the time to learn how to do it right, you’re going to spend many months or years figuring it out and essentially blowing it on high quality prospects. If you’re in front of a good quality prospect and you don’t know what to say and you’re just winging it and saying the wrong things, then you can spend a long time getting it wrong. Not selling a lot of stuff, giving your company a black eye and really not valuing the time of the person you’re interacting with. Chris: Well, it’s interesting that you say that because almost the underlying assumption is that I’m a sales guy and I ought to be doing this on my own; and I’ll betcha you think that managers probably should be doing more to help their salespeople be better sales people? David: Well, I think it’s certainly helpful if you are a sales manager and you have the salespeople under you, then yes, certainly helping the salespeople you have should be a critical and important part of your job. And a lot of sales managers are good at what they do and they really help their sales people to grow. There are some who sell as well and sometimes there’s a bit of a competition there and they always want to sort of show how they’re better than the people they work with. That sort of dynamic is rarely good in sales, but when you get a sales manager who really understands that his or her job is to help the people that they’re working with to become better at it and to establish rapport with more high quality prospects and to close those sales effectively. And when that person does everything they can to impart that knowledge on the salespeople, then everybody wins. The company wins, the sales manager wins because they look good to the boss, the sales person wins, and it’s just all around a far better approach. Chris: So what is it that you’ve seen that’s made it clear for you that sales managers need to be doing more? Schedule a Strategy Session Click Here David: Well, I do a lot of work in the print and promotional products industry. In fact, the topic of our next podcast is very closely related to this. We're going to be talking about recruiting new salespeople instead of training the ones you have. And that's something that I've seen a lot, particularly in the promotional products industry where a lot of the focus is on bringing in new salespeople as opposed to helping or training the ones that they have. And again, we're going to be talking about that next time so we don't want to get too deeply into it

In sports, MVP stands for most valuable player. In The MVPs of Marketing & Sales™, the letters MVP stand for Message, Vehicles and People. These three components are arguably the most valuable things you can focus on if you want to communicate effectively and dominate your market. David: Hi and welcome to the podcast. Today co-host Chris Templeton and I are here to discuss The MVPs of Marketing & Sales™. Welcome Chris. Chris: David, thank you. Great to be here. You know, for years you’ve been talking about the MVPs of sales, but for those who don’t have the benefit of really understanding what you mean by that, help them to understand what the term MVPs of sales means. The Most Valuable Players of Marketing & Sales David: Okay. When we think in terms of The MVPs of Marketing and Sales™, it’s just like the most valuable players in sports. But when it comes to marketing and sales, it stands for something different. In marketing and sales, MVP stands for Message, Vehicles, and People. So essentially what we’re asking is what is the marketing (M)essage that I want to convey? That’s the M part of it. Which combination of marketing (V)ehicles am I going to use to communicate the message? And then who are the (P)eople or prospects that I want to reach? When you get these three things right, your promotion is almost inevitably successful. And if you get just one of them wrong, it’s inevitably not successful. Chris: It’s like a three-legged stool. David: Exactly. The MVPs of Marketing & Sales: 1.) Message What Message do you want to convey? Chris: And so, the first leg of that stool is messaging. I think a lot of people don’t have a clear understanding of the value of messaging, what it means and how to be consistent about it. David: Yeah, most business people communicate a lot, right? We’re communicating all the time. We’re interacting with people, we’re having conversations. But very often what we’re saying is not strategic. We’re not necessarily thinking about it in advance. Maybe we don’t think in terms of it as messaging. We just think of it in terms of communication. But the idea of the messaging is to think in advance. What do I want to happen as a result of this interaction, this conversation? Whether it’s a discussion with someone, or a sales call, whether it’s an email, social media post, whatever it is. What is the goal of the communication? What do I want to happen as a result of having this communication? Let’s say it’s early stages and I’m just meeting someone for the first time. If I want to get them comfortable with me, obviously the messaging is going to be different than if it’s somebody that I’ve been talking to for a while. Same thing if we’ve been talking about putting something together and we’re trying to get a sale closed. Communication is different, but it’s always strategic. We should always have some sort of goal in mind when we initiate that message. Wanting More Sales Chris: I think a lot of people have a tendency to say, oh, I just want the sale. And I imagine a big piece of what you’re talking about with your clients is, wait, what are the steps? So talk a little bit about that in terms of messaging and, and the results you’re looking for. David: Okay. Well, most salespeople, if they are thinking, “I just want the sale,” and that’s true, they’re probably going to want the sale. That’s perfectly natural. But it’s very unlikely that you’re going to make the sale in that first conversation unless you’re selling something very inexpensive. Something that’s very easy for someone to make a decision about. But the reality is that in the early stages, first of all, they have to get to know us. So a lot of our communication, a lot of our messaging is simply about letting them know who we are, making them aware that we exist. We talked about this in a previous podcast. So the early stage messaging is about that. Getting them comfortable with us, confident enough with us that they will place that first-time order. Throughout those conversations, assuming it takes more than one, which it often will… The closer we get to actually making that sale, the more focused the conversations become. In other words, the middle conversations might be about specific products that they’re looking for and providing pricing and that sort of thing. And those conversations will be happening a lot closer to the sale. Whereas earlier in the conversation it’s about getting them comfortable. Schedule a Strategy Session Click Here Chris: Talk about the importance of comfort because I think a lot of people think, well, you know, here I am, I've got this product and I just want to tell you about it. And then you can buy it and comfort and I think trust is another word that kind of fi

In the past you’ve said that market leaders think, act and communicate differently than the rest of the population. What do you mean by that? And how can people start thinking, acting and communicating like a leader? David: Hi and welcome to the podcast today co host Chris Templeton and I will be talking about communication, how market leaders do it compared to the rest of the population. Welcome Chris. Chris: Hey David, thank you very much for having me back. I sure am enjoying these conversations. I’m super excited about this one because leadership is something that is so important, so missing in business, and when you say that leaders think and they act and they communicate differently than the rest of the population, talk about what that means from your standpoint. Need Help with This? Schedule a Call David: Okay, well first of all, when I talk about leaders, I don't necessarily mean presidents of organizations or chairmen of boards, things like that. When I talk about leaders, I simply mean people who other people look at as someone that they want to pay attention to and people who lead tend to communicate differently. They tend to be more focused. They tend to be more authoritative in a lot of cases, generating good ideas, engaging people, all that sort of thing. And most people don't really think about it, they don't focus on it. And as a result they end up meandering around and just having sort of boring conversations and hopefully every now and then they'll hit on something that moves people. Chris: So how do you make that change when you switch to really becoming a leader? What do you think are some of the more important characteristics around that? David: Well, in terms of communication, I think it really begins with the idea of wanting to, once again, as we talked about previously, help other people and how can I get to that as quickly as possible? You know, a lot of people today talk about content like this podcast is content. A blog post is content. A social media post is content. It's all content. And what some people do is they just go out there with a whole lot of words and hope that occasionally some of their words will connect up in a way that means something to someone. And I find that rather inconsiderate of the listener. One of the reasons that I've hesitated in the past to have the kinds of conversations that we're having now is that I wanted to make sure that it stayed focused, that it stayed on track so that people are able to get something from it. Chris: Right. David: And if we started wandering off on crazy tangents, then it loses its value. And so I think that from a leadership standpoint, it means really thinking in terms of what is going to help the other person, what's going to help this prospect? What's going to help this client? What's going to help this person that I would like to be able to establish some sort of business relationship with? And if my communication can then reflect that, then it's going to be better all the way around. I'm sure you're familiar with the book, How to Win Friends and Influence People. Chris: Dale Carnegie. David: Yeah! So, the basic concept of that book is that if you talk to other people about themselves, they'll think you're the most interesting person in the world. And what I think leaders do and salespeople who are leaders certainly do this, is that they make it about the other person. They make it about the prospect, they make it about the client, and then figuring out based on what that person needs, how they can help. Chris: And I think there are a couple of things that really help to push that along in the nicest of all ways. You and I have in the last two podcasts have talked about fit quite a bit and one of the things that I think is the nicest approach is to say, you know, I'd love to sit down with you and see if there is a good fit between us. And then I think the second thing that you can add to that is I'd love to be a great resource for you, but if it's not a good fit, let me see if I can't help to get you pointed in the right direction. You know, really what we're talking about in a lot of ways in regards to being a good leader is getting people to relax with you and to feel like they're not being threatened. And their guard doesn't have to be up that we're just trying to sell them something. Right? David: Right, and the idea of saying to someone, I'd like to sit down with you. I think that many salespeople should be, in some ways hesitant to have that conversation. I think many salespeople are too quick to jump at the idea of sitting down with someone else before they even know if they can possibly help them. Chris: Right. David: That's why I believe the idea of qualification, you know, intelligent, thoughtful qualification should always precede the appointment. And I've had discussions with salespeople about this who have argued with me about it. They're like, well, no, you've got to go for the appointment. I'm l

You talk a lot about market domination, is that just for effect or are you serious about it? David: Hi and welcome to the podcast today. I am joined once again by my co host, Chris Templeton, who is here to challenge me on the idea of market domination. Welcome Chris. Chris: Hey David, thank you very much for letting me be your interrogator for this podcast! David: Work me over, man. Work me over. Chris: Domination. You know there is a lot of talk about domination and I don’t think from a business standpoint we really understand what it is. So, is it a serious word? Are you serious about this, David? David: Well, I’m serious about it to the extent that I believe that in every market there are leaders and followers, someone is leading the parade, and someone is following. If you’re leading, then you’re dominating. Essentially, you’re going to be a recognized force in the market. And if you’re not dominating the market, then what that means is there’s business that you are absolutely losing out on. So for example, if I’m in the market for any kind of item, pick an item, pick an industry. Chris: New speakers for my computer. David: Okay. I’m in the market for a new computer speakers, so if I think of new computer speakers, what are some places that might immediately leap to mind? I mean it could be whatever… Office Max. Chris: Amazon? David: Yeah, it could be Amazon. Yeah, of course. Amazon, right? It could be Staples. It could be any place that sells speakers, but there are names that immediately leap to mind, right? You said Amazon right away. I deliberately skipped them because they’re such a great, obvious example, but in other words, you hear something, and something leaps to mind. The people who leap to mind are the ones who have that top of mind awareness, which results in market domination. David: If I think I need computer speakers and I immediately think of Staples or Best Buy or whatever, and I get in my car and I go there, then if you sell computer speakers, you’re never even going to have a chance at that business. Right? Because I didn’t even think of you. So, market domination means that you’ll at least leap to mind. We named three or four different places that leaped to mind for us. Now. One of them would get the business, the others wouldn’t. But those that didn’t even leap to mind, they don’t have a chance. Because otherwise what I would have to do is do a Google search or try to figure out where I wanted to go. Ask a friend, “Hey, where did you get your computer speakers?” And then I’d have to take action to try to find another place. So, without that level of awareness, it’s impossible to dominate markets. This is particularly true for those who sell B2B. So I am very serious about the idea of domination, but I also recognize that not everyone’s going to be able to dominate at the level of an Amazon where people think of anything and they say, okay, I’m going to go to Amazon to get it. Or I can go to Amazon to get it. But the advantage here, and I think a really important distinction is the fact that just because someone dominates any market, whether it’s Amazon trying to dominate anything, it doesn’t really matter because there are people who will say, Oh, I need computer speakers. I’m going to go to Amazon. And there are other people who are going to say, I need computer speakers, but I’m sure not buying them from Amazon. Right? So, but they know about it. So, they have the opportunity to buy from there. And most businesses in most markets, no matter what they do, whether it’s lawyers or doctors or salespeople of any kind, most people don’t have that sort of recognition. And so, what happens is they don’t even know about the business that they’re missing. What I’m talking about is creating a level of awareness in the marketplace so that when people think of the product or service you offer, you will potentially leap to mind so that they can at least consider you for the purchase. Hopefully that makes sense. Chris: A really, really important point because I can tell you there are listeners that are saying, well, there’s no way I can have the level of awareness of an Amazon, and what I want the audience to understand is that’s not the level of awareness that you need for your market, in all likelihood. Unless you’re selling computer speakers, which I would then recommend that you consider a different business. But let’s talk about two things. Number one, how do you define a market? David: Okay, well, one of the things that we do in the Total Market Domination course is we really identify exactly what is the market that the person wants to dominate, right? Is it a particular geographic market? Is it a particular vertical market or niche? Who is it that they would like to dominate? In other w

Many businesses can start out and plod along for years without making any serious inroads in their marketing. But those who want to grow more quickly, need to take a different approach. For years, I’ve been training my clients on a strategy I’d like to share with you today. It’s about moving from stealth mode to intimidation mode. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. Today, cohost Chris Templeton and I will be talking about moving from stealth mode to intimidation mode. Welcome Chris. Chris: Hi David. You know, this sounds like two drastically different things. So what do you mean by stealth mode? And what do you mean by intimidation mode? David: I hope this topic isn’t too intimidating for people, Chris. Chris: I’m intimidated, but in a good way, David. David: OK, good. One of the things that I’ve noticed that most of my businesses had in common, is that when I started them, I was essentially operating in stealth mode. It was very quiet. It was very low key. It was a lot of planning. Trying to decide, who are we going to go after? Who are we going to target? How are we going to approach them? What are we going to say? How are we going to say it? So all of that stuff is happening behind the scenes. So that’s what I refer to as stealth mode. Stealth mode is when people are not even really aware that you’re there, the market, doesn’t know yet, prospects and clients don’t know yet. In stealth mode, you’re still figuring it out. Now in the early stages of stealth mode, you’re reaching out, sort of behind the scenes. You’re getting to people in the market who could potentially buy from you, and you’re communicating with them. You’re getting them qualified, as we talked about in previous episodes. You’re finding out who’s ready to buy now? Who has specific dates in mind? Who’s generally receptive? Who’s disqualified? Who’s unresponsive? You can do that very quietly. And your competitors don’t even really know, necessarily, that you’re there. And in several businesses that I had, I was able to operate in a market, very quietly, for a very long time before people actually had an idea (particularly competitors) had an idea that I was there. And the way that they found out that I was there is that they would approach a prospect or client. and that person would say, “no, I’m doing business with this company.” And they were like, “Hmm, that’s weird. I’ve never heard of it.” Chris: Who? What? Who? David: Yeah, exactly. And then there get to be more and more people who are aware. And then eventually what happens is you switch to intimidation mode. And when I say that, I’m not trying to be obnoxious here. And the goal isn’t actually to intimidate people in a harmful sense of the word. It’s to create an environment in the market where your competitors are going to be looking at you and going, “wow, it’s going to be hard to compete with that. I don’t even know how to compete with that.” That’s what tends to intimidate competitors is when they just have absolutely no idea how they can compete with what you’re doing. And so moving from stealth mode to intimidation mode is about finding out, in stealth mode, all the things that work, which aspects of the market you want to approach, fine tuning, honing the right things to say so that you can bring prospects and clients through the door like clockwork. Once you’ve got that nailed down, then you can start promoting aggressively, and you can bring more clients in. And other people look at that, and they’re like, “I don’t know how this person is doing it.” That’s essentially the nutshell version. Chris: And you know, the thing that just occurs to me is, the word that keeps coming into my head is listening. All right? Like I have, in stealth mode, I have done a whole lot of hopefully active listening with prospects and clients to be able to get to that place where at some point my competition is intimidated by the way that I’m doing things. And I can’t imagine that there’s really any other way than solid listening, and as a friend of mine used to say, monitoring and adjusting. David: Yeah, exactly. In the early stages, you have to do that. Because if you don’t, if you’re not paying attention to what the market wants, you have absolutely no way to deliver it to them. Chris: Yeah, exactly. What do you think the biggest advantages are to operating in stealth mode, David? David: Well, the fact that nobody even really knows that you’re there. They don’t know what you’re doing. They don’t know how you’re doing it. I mean, obviously, I have a brand called Top Secrets. So this is something that I like. I mean, I like the idea of being able to operate in a sales environm

A lot of sales training focuses on the idea of maintaining control of the sales process: Directing attention, leading the conversation, deferring questions about price until the end. Essentially it’s about getting clients to go along with your agenda rather than following their own. Is that realistic? David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. Today, cohost Chris Templeton and I will be talking about the idea of maintaining control of the sales process. Welcome back, Chris. Chris: Hi David. I can’t think of a single sales person who wouldn’t want to completely control every sales situation. Is it at all realistic to think that we could do that? David: No, not at all. Chris: Okay. Good podcasts. David: Yeah. Chris: Moving on. David: Great chatting with you. No, it’s not realistic to think that you can completely control every sales situation. Should we try to maintain control of each selling situation? Absolutely, we should. And can we do better if we do provide some sort of structure? Yes. So I think it’s realistic to recognize that if we don’t at least try to provide a structure, a framework, something that will allow people to get from the beginning of the sales process to the end, that they probably won’t end up buying something. And a lot of time and effort and energy and thought has been put into the idea of what happens when a client follows a sales person’s agenda, versus what happens when a salesperson follows a potential client’s agenda. Because if somebody walks into a selling situation with the idea of, “I don’t want to spend any money” and they’re taking control of the situation, then the salesperson is ultimately buying that idea. And so many times over the years, you’ve probably heard the adage that somebody is always buying something. Either the salesperson is selling the person on the idea of the thing they’re selling, or the potential buyer is selling the salesperson on why they’re not buying. And somebody has to accept that. But there’s always a sale being made. If you’re going to be the salesperson, if you’re going to be the person who is leading the conversation, then yeah, you definitely want to be able to increase the likelihood of having a successful outcome. Chris: So what are some of the components that are involved in discussions that help you to retain more control of the sales process? David: Well, a lot of it depends upon the people that you’re interacting with. So I’m not going to pretend that there’s some sort of magic formula that you can follow and have it work. Early on in my sales career, I took various sales trainings, and many of them talked about different structures that you want to have in place. And you want to start with step one and then move to step two and then move to step three. And you want to make sure that when you complete step one, you close the door on that. You’re not going back and now you’re going to step two. And as you listen to that sort of thing, you go, “wow, that sounds amazing.” But then what you find out is that in practice, you cannot control that, right? You could think that you had the pricing stuff all nailed down, that you put a nice bow on it and you moved on and now you’re onto the next thing. But the fact of the matter is that if the prospect then says, “okay, but I’m not sure about this,” you’re going backwards, right? Chris: Yeah. David: It’s not like you can completely control that. So I’m not a big fan of creating rules in selling that are completely unenforceable. I don’t like the idea of saying this is what has to happen when it’s out of your control. So I look at, okay, what are the aspects of the sales process that are within our control? And the things that are within our control are the things that we say, the things that we do, the order in which we say and do those things, the way that we handle questions and comments and objections, and those are the things that we can control. We cannot control how someone is going to respond to that. So I think the more we focus on the aspects of the presentation that we can control, how we would like things to go, how we’re going to structure our part of the presentation, and then recognizing that while we can get off track, somebody can certainly get us off track, as long as we know where we’re headed, so that we can get back to where we were and continue where we left off, we’ll have a much better likelihood of being able to have a favorable outcome. Chris: You know, one of the things that occurs to me is that throughout the sales process, if you feel like you’re not in a place where you’re controlling that, a lot of times, I think there’s a lot of resistance in the conversation between the salesperson and the prospect. And I encourage anybody that

It would be great if we were able to close every prospect we ever targeted, but that’s just ridiculously unrealistic. So how many prospects should we have in our pipeline? And how many do you have in there right now? David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. Today, cohost Chris Templeton, and I will be talking about the prospects in your pipeline. Should you have more? Could you have less? Welcome Chris. Chris: Hi David. You know, many business owners and sales people think in terms of growing their customer base. But the number of prospects in their pipeline is a key element of that, isn’t it? David: Yes, absolutely. And it’s very often overlooked. It’s one of these things like we were talking about in the previous podcast, things that people know — business owners know, salespeople know — but we don’t always practice. The idea that we have to have a nice solid sales pipeline. You have to put enough in the front of the pipe, so you can have some coming out the back of the pipe? Or some people use the analogy of a funnel. If you don’t have enough going into the top of the funnel, you’re not going to have anything coming out the bottom. So yes, having a really solid pipeline is absolutely key. If you think of like an oil pipeline or something like that, if you have great gaps in the pipeline, if you just have great pockets of air, that is not going to accomplish the goal. And it’s the same thing with customers with prospects. If you’ve got a nice, solid pipeline of customers in place or prospects in place, then the likelihood that some of them are going to close is pretty great. And you will very likely have the type of customer base that you can grow and the type of business that you can actually live in. But if you’ve got tremendous gaps in between your prospects in your pipeline, then the likelihood of success is greatly diminished. Before we started this podcast, we were talking about this topic, how many people do you have in your pipeline? And I responded with “both of them.” You know, and for some people, that’s where they are. They might have a few people, they have a handful of people in their pipeline. And they’re just crazy about the idea of when is one of these people going to close? And they fail to take into consideration that if you had twice as many people in the pipeline, then your closing ratio could be cut in half and you’d still make a sale. Chris: And the other thing is the whole time, if I’ve got a full pipeline, if I’ve got 20 or 30 potential people that I’m working on over time, or a hundred, whatever the case may be, depending. David: Or a thousand, yeah. Chris: Depending on where I am in that, I love the funnel analogy. At the top, it’s probably somebody who may be receptive at some point, or is even a lead that you haven’t talked to. But having that pipeline loaded with potential clients, I think is one of the greatest ways to reduce stress in your business. Especially if you’re a sales person. Would you agree with that? David: Yeah. It reduces stress and it increases the likelihood of success. And it positions you to be able to generate the sales that you want to generate. You know, one of the things I’ve always struggled with, with the idea of either a pipeline or a funnel is that if you have a pipeline, if you have a funnel, you put something one end, it all comes out the other end. In a sales funnel or a pipeline it doesn’t really work that way. Some of them are not going to make it all the way through. So it’s like these things have these various escape valves going off in one direction or other, and the ones who aren’t going to make it get siphoned off. But the ultimate visual, I guess, is that you put a bunch of them into the top and the ones that actually make it through the bottom of the ones that become your custom. Chris: Yeah. And it’s almost a filtering process. You know, how rock is graded. You know, you get the big ones out first and then the ones in the middle, and the big ones are the ones that aren’t qualified or just don’t have any interest. And as you get a little finer, finer, finer, that you’re getting people that are ready to buy now on the other end. And I think that’s one of the things that’s really important to think about in terms of a pipeline is that we are filling it with enough. So that what filters out at the bottom really is the exact kind of clients that we want. And hopefully that filtering process is also getting out the kind of clients that we don’t want. So when you look at this, David, what do you think the number of prospects a sales person should have in their pipeline? David: Yeah, it’d be great if there were just one number… Seventeen, Chris. Chris: Forty two. David: Yeah. Right. The answer to life, the universe… Chris: And

Everyone knows it’s generally easier selling more to your existing clients than it is to sell to new customers. Still, many salespeople and business owners focus a lot of attention on getting new clients. But what are some of the best ways to earn more from your existing customer list? David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. Today, cohost Chris Templeton, and I will discuss earning more from your existing customer base. Hi Chris. Chris: Hi David. You know, it does seem like many people focus a lot more on attracting new business than to selling to their existing customers. Why do you think that’s the case, David? David: Good question. I think a lot of it may have to do with just the idea of new customers. It’s a lot more fun, a lot more sexy. People tend to gravitate toward that. Where the idea of selling to existing customers may seem a little bland compared to that. It could be some of that. It could be old habits dying hard. If you had a sales manager that you reported to, very often, you would be flogged for not bringing new customers through the door. So it could have something to do with that. The focus of the sales management or ownership, if the goal was to bring new people through. But I think a lot of it is just the idea that once we’ve conquered a particular account, once we’ve gotten that order, the tendency is to move on to the next one is to find the next customer, the next customer, the next order and that sort of thing. And sometimes we forget that it’s been a while since we’ve gotten that order from the previous customer, and maybe it’s just time to go back. Chris: It just seems to me like a major disconnect that selling to existing customers is something that just doesn’t get near the attention that it should. And we all know, we all know that it’s the easiest sale. The most rewarding sale is the repeat sale, isn’t it? David: Yeah. And everybody can quote that. Everybody knows it, intellectually. We all know it. Probably anyone who’s been in sales for any length of time knows that every business owner probably knows it. And yet it’s just not practiced. Chris: When you think about it, how costly do you think it is for people who fail to maximize that value of their customer base? David: I think it’s extremely costly. If you’re not doing it, there’s no question that you’re missing out on revenue that you could otherwise have. In fact, one of the things that I focus on with my clients, whenever I take on a new client, if we’re working one-on-one, or even if we’re working in a small group, one of the first things that we’ll do is to address that. Because if you want to grow your sales and profits, the way that I look at it is your existing customer base is going to account for some sort of percentage of that. So very often what I’ll do is I’ll say, okay, let’s say I’m talking to somebody and they’re doing half a million in sales and they want to get it to three quarters of a million in sales. One of the first questions that I’ll ask them is what do you think you’ll do with your existing customer base over the course of the next year? In other words, if you did half a million dollars with them last year, what’s it going to be this year? Is it going to be 550? Is it going to be 450? Is it going to be 250? Right? Are a lot of them going to have gone away? What’s that going to be? And a lot of times it’s just spit-balling. You’re just sort of trying to figure out roughly what might be. But very often people will have a good idea of that. So they’ll say, okay, well I did half a million with them last year. Maybe I’ll do 525 or maybe I’ll do 550 with them, depending on a couple of different things. And then I’ll say, okay, well, if you really decided to focus on trying to get the most from them, what’s the most you think you could get? And in some cases they’ll go to, you know, 575 or 600 or 650. And that tells you, right there, that a lot of times we know that there are dollars that could be had, and we’re just not going after them. But then after that, once we’ve identified that we say, okay, so if you think you can get to 550 or 600 with your existing customer base, and your goal is to get to 750, now we’re going to supplement the rest with new customers. So it makes sense to do that, but it really makes sense to start with identifying how much your existing and your previous customers could be worth to you over the course of the next year. Chris: When you look at this and see this as such a common issue, I mean, my sense from what you just said is that most of your business owners who talk about this, it’s something that just doesn’t get first play in terms of my planning. What do you think is a better way to monetize existing clients? David: Well,

Most value-based businesses hate the idea of price-cutters — those who go into a market, offering a low price (often for an inferior product,) while pretending it’s all the same. But price-cutters have always existed and there’s always been a market for them. So what place do price-cutters really fill in the current economy? David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast today. Cohost Chris Templeton, and I will be talking about the value and worthiness of price-cutters in business. Welcome back, Chris. Chris: Hi David. You know, one of the things that seems to frustrate salespeople more than anything else are price-cutters. Some people complain about them. Some people buy from them and some do both. They complain about their competitors who cut prices, but then they buy from the price-cutters who sell to them. What is up with that? David: Good question. What is up with that? I think there are people who sometimes get lost in whatever’s going on. We touched on this in a previous podcast, but particularly when things are challenging in business, the idea of price-cutting, the idea of going for the lowest cost alternative can be appealing. And there are a lot of people who I think have made really difficult, tough, and just flat out wrong decisions about moving things forward in their business, by simply cutting price, by going with lower cost alternatives, that aren’t nearly as good hoping that they’re going to be as good. And it just doesn’t usually happen like that. Chris: You know, when I got together with my wife, she was buying, for herself, Ferragamo shoes, which were, even 30 years ago, $200, $300. And she wanted me to buy those high end shoes. And I was like, “Oh honey, this is not a good idea, not a good use of money.” And then she said, “no, you’re buying a nice pair of shoes.” And three or four resoles later, they are so comfortable, and such a pleasure to wear, we somehow in the process of price-cutting, give up on the idea of the full value of what we’re buying. Don’t you think? David: Yeah, I think a lot of people do. And I mean that’s, to some extent, an extreme example, not completely extreme, but there are some people who are always going to go for the highest quality product. And that’s great. I remember Dan Kennedy, marketing guy, was talking about this one time. And he was saying that in every market, there are people who will always stay at the top hotel, the Ritz Carlton of whatever that particular city is. Regardless of what city they’re going to,.they’re always going to stay at the most expensive hotel. Similarly, there are people who will always stay at the lowest cost alternative. They’ll always stay at the Motel Six or whatever the lowest cost alternative is in a market. And of course the bulk of people fall somewhere in between. Chris: Right. David: And then the question becomes — and this is what I thought was brilliant about his comment — who do you want to build hotels for? Chris: (Laughs) Wait, wait, let me think about this one for a minute, David: Right? Yeah. Who do you want to build hotels for? And I thought about that in my own business so many times over the years. “Who do you want to build this for?” And for me, the types of clients that I love, the types of clients that I really enjoy working with are smart. They’re focused. They think. They’re willing to engage in conversations. They don’t just accept the lowest common denominator as an alternative. They’re willing to engage. They’re willing to invest in themselves and their businesses, growing things. And those are the types of people that I build my businesses to accommodate. So when there are people who come along and they want the cheaper thing or the cheapest thing or the low cost thing, or they think it’s going to do the same thing, in a lot of cases, I’m like, you know what, go for it. Knock yourself out. Because what’ll end up happening is I’ll end up working with someone else in your market who “gets it,” and it’s just going to be better for them. Chris: And you know, it is such a pleasure — I had this come up just recently, a client’s wife sent me an email asking what it would cost to set up her website and that sort of thing. And it was clear that this wasn’t a budget that was going to work for me. And so I spent 10 minutes just writing an email with what I thought her options were, that I didn’t think my budget was going to be hers, but you could do this, this, this, and this. And you know what? It was an absolute pleasure to send her on her way, know that my client, her husband, is going to be pleased with what I had to say to her. And at the same time, I’m not in a situation where I’ve got somebody who wants to do a low cost site, wants to spend more time than they’r

David: In our last podcast, we talked about how adversity reveals a client’s true colors. This week. I’d like to take it a step further and explore the idea of how to reboot your customer base. With everything that’s happened in business over the past few months, it may be the perfect time to do it. Hi and welcome to the podcast today. Cohost Chris Templeton, and I will be talking about the pros and cons of rebooting your existing business. Welcome back, Chris. Chris: Hi David. You know, to some, the idea of rebooting their client base may sound really scary, but I suspect that deep down inside, it’s something that appeals to nearly every business owner, as well as their salespeople. So let’s start with this. What do you mean by rebooting your client base? David: Good question. Well, I think of it in terms of rebooting your computer. If you have Windows, we’ve had Windows for years, Microsoft Windows, you’re probably familiar with rebooting. You get the blue screen of death sometimes, and you try to reboot your computer. And what happens when we reboot or restart the computer, is that it clears out everything that’s in there and it starts over again and pulls everything up. Then everything is fresh and new and hopefully not all messed up. I think that is a perfect analogy for our client bases sometimes. Over the years, they can accumulate just a lot of things that will slow us down. A lot of clients who are no longer a good fit, a lot of people who may be too demanding, where the amount of time that we invest in the relationships is no longer worth the amount of revenue that we’re able to generate from those accounts. And so, sometimes we need to look at it and say, “okay, what would a reboot of my business look like?” If I were to walk in the door tomorrow morning and walk into a business that is a lot better than the one that I’m operating today or working in today, what would that look like? How would the day start differently? Who would I be interacting with? Who would I no longer be interacting with? That’s what I think of in terms of a reboot. Chris: And, you know, I think one of the things to really think about as part of that discussion is why. Why do you want to do this? Not as a challenge to doing it, but as a “let’s get into,” as we talked about in the last podcast, “let’s get you into solution oriented mode.” And when you know why you want to do this, and my sense of that is it’s really about what I want, like you said, my day to look like, what I want my business to feel like. “Start with the why” as Simon Sinek says. So when you look at it, why do you think this is an important thing to do? David: Well, first and foremost, from a proactivity standpoint, designing the business, designing the life that you actually want to have, I think. The idea of rebooting your business, I think it’s very important to do it from that standpoint. From a quality of life standpoint, I think that’s big. That’s probably number one. If I were to boil it down. In business, we very often spend more time with our prospects, clients and coworkers than we get to spend with our friends and family and loved ones. And so for that reason, I think we need to be very conscious of the fact that every time we choose to do business with a particular prospect or a particular client, that we’re going to be interacting with this person. And if it’s a good fit and if we’re able to help them, and if they understand and appreciate everything we can do for them, it’s going to be a great relationship and we’re going to get along fine. If that fit is not there in the beginning, or if it was there, but now it’s no longer there, then, when we do that reboot, we’re going to be able to eliminate those relationships that are holding us back and holding them back. It’s important to understand this too. I’m not just talking about saying, “okay, well, I’m just going to pick my clients and work with the people that I want to work with.” Essentially, that’s what clients do too, right? Clients decide who they want to work with. And we decide who we want to work with. So when that happens on both sides, it does tend to keep things a lot cleaner. But there are some times where we have clients who know that it’s no longer a good fit, but they insist on doing it because whatever, they’re too lazy to try to find someone else, we’re too lazy to try to find that customer, to replace them. And we continue doing business with people when the relationship is no longer, really valid. So I think it’s important first and foremost, from a quality of life standpoint, second, certainly from a business standpoint, the idea that we want to interact with the people that we can help the most, those are the two primary re

Many business owners and salespeople have struggled with the effects of stay at home orders, mandated company closures and social distancing requirements. Some have been able to thrive, finding levels of creativity and resilience they never knew existed, while others have retreated, becoming entitled, fearful, or even hostile. It really shows how adversity can reveal a client’s true colors. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. Today, cohost Chris Templeton and I will be talking about how adversity can affect clients. Welcome Chris. Chris: Hi, David. Boy, is this true. You know, I imagine everyone in business has seen it in action. Some prospects and clients are doing everything they can to move things forward, while others are withdrawing, becoming moody and demanding. It’s almost like they become different people. Isn’t it? David: Yeah, it’s really shocking in some cases. People that you might think you knew, people who you thought were one way and you find out they’re kind of not that way. It really does point out that people react differently to adversity. And let me just say, it’s completely understandable when people are dealing with really tough issues in their business and their lives, it’s going to have an effect. There’s no way that you can get around it. But I think as business people, we have to be able to recognize this, identify it as early on in the cycle as possible and determine, decide, is this person, is this prospect still someone that we would like to interact with in our business? Chris: So, David, what do you think accounts for the primary difference in these people’s responses? David: If I had to put my finger on it, Chris, I’d probably take it back to one primary thing. And that is fear. How frightened is this person? How scared are they about what’s going on? How scared are they about their ability to be able to handle it, to be able to deal with it, to be able to process whatever issues they’re having to process and to be able to move forward from it? I’ve had conversations with people who have been on both sides of the fence… separately. I have people who, some are on one side of the fence, who are really focused and they know what they’re doing, and they’re really geared up and they’re moving forward. And I’ve talked to people on the other side of the fence, who are just feeling defeated and frightened and not inclined to want to take action. And in those situations, the biggest difference that I see is the level of fear. The people who have the knowledge that they’re going to be able to make it, that they’re going to be able to pull things out, those people seem to be doing just fine. The ones who seem to be struggling the most are the ones who are not quite convinced of that. They don’t know what to do next, exactly. They feel like their business is really struggling and they’re not quite sure what to do to change it. So I would say in addition to the fear, it’s also the not knowing how to handle it, not knowing how to address the fear and make the changes they probably need to make in order to keep things going in the direction they really want to go. Chris: I think that another way to look at this is that some people are in problem-orientation mode, and some people are in solution-orientation mode. And when you’re in problem-orientation, we keep telling these stories where we just pile it on and then there’s this and that. And how are we ever going to get this done? And you can just kind of feel the angst building and building and building. And then there’s the solution side. People who have a perspective that says “times are tough, got to monitor, got to adjust.” But they focus on moving toward the solution. And when you’re in problem-orientation mode, it is really, really hard to focus on the solution. But if you know that that’s where you are, then you start to create some of that space that lets you move back towards solution. So I would encourage anybody that’s listening to this and really feeling like they’re buried, recognize that you’re in problem-orientation mode and make a conscious and deliberate effort to be open with yourself about the negatives, but also open about how you can take those negatives and convert them one by one, into something that’s a little bit more positive. David: Yes. And by changing the questions that you ask yourself, you can significantly change that pretty quickly. The thing that I noticed among the people that I talked to, who seem to be struggling the most, is that their inner dialogue, or their inner monologue, rather, is geared toward, “I can’t do this. I can’t afford this. I need to cut costs. I need to lay people off.” I mean, they’re thinking in terms of all the things that they need to do to get smal