Top Secrets of Marketing & Sales

Jay: I’m not lying when I tell you that I struggle with this idea that I’m being a pest in sales. So I think it’ll help my sales, I think it’ll help my daily attitude towards what I do. David: Well, I’ll tell you something, Jay, many of the most conscientious human beings feel this way. I mean, if you’re one of those sales guys who, “Hey, everybody loves me,” you’re not even going to think of that. It’s never even going to occur to you. So the people who are most likely to struggle with this are people who just want to help. They’re there to provide a service. Jay: Yeah. David: They don’t want to be a pest. And so really, most of the people who feel this way are the ones who are least likely to be a pest because they’re not arrogant to begin with. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast in today’s episode, co-host Jay McFarland, and I’ll be discussing the topic of how to avoid being a pest in sales. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Oh, thank you for having me, Dave. This is a real problem for me. I always feel like a pest in sales, whether it’s an email, whether it’s a text, I always feel like they don’t want to hear from me. And. it’s been an ongoing problem. I’ll just be honest with you when it comes time, okay? I got to sit down and reach out to people. I’m like, oh, do they really want to hear from me? Am I going to bug them? How do I get over that? David: Yeah, it’s a great question. A number of years ago, I was doing a speaking presentation and Mary Lou Retton, the gymnast, was also speaking at the same event, and she told this story. It was just so great. I don’t know if somebody asked the question, but it came up in her presentation where people were saying to her, when she was doing her routine, the person who went on before her did a really, really good routine. And so at that point, the pressure would really be on her to deliver a flawless performance if she wanted to be able to get the score that she needed. Jay: Mm-hmm. David: And so the question was how do you deal with that when this person delivers a great performance and you have to go on next? Don’t you feel nervous after that? And her response, I’ll never forget it. And this was easily 10 or 12 years ago this happened. Jay: Yeah. David: Her response was, “you know, I watched her performance and it was great. And I looked at it and I thought to myself, wait till they get a load of me!” Jay: Mmmm. David: And I was like, “wow, how much does that apply in sales?” Jay: Yeah, David: I mean, I think it applies every bit as much in sales as it does in gymnastics. If you go in with the idea of, oh, that person’s better than I am, or they’re not going to like me, or they’re going to think that I’m annoying, or I’m rude, or I’m obnoxious, or I’m a pest, or whatever. If you go in with that mindset, then what you are likely to say, the way that you’re likely to position yourself, all of those things are going to reflect that. But if you’re able to go into a situation with the idea of “wait ’til they get a load of me,” or at least “I have something valuable to offer.” Now, any salesperson who doesn’t feel like they have something valuable to offer should be either in another line of work or selling a different line of product. Right? Jay: Yeah. David: You need to be able to feel good about what it is that you’re selling. And if you know that what you’re selling is, ideally, better than the competition. If you know that you’re going to deliver better than your competition, you know that you’re going to be more responsive, you’re going to be more concerned, you’re going to be more caring. If you know all those things, then you owe it to the client to convey all that. And if you don’t convey it to them, then you’re doing them more harm than good, and you’re doing yourself and them more harm than good. So, If you look at it from the standpoint of, “I’m here to provide a solution, I’m here to help,” then it’s a lot easier to not start thinking of yourself as a pest and just recognize that if you’re there to help, it’s very difficult to be a pest. Jay: Yeah, I’m not a pest. I’m a value. And I’m trying to pass that value on. It’s really interesting because, you know, I do these initial consultations and I’m going to toot my own horn. I am incredible at building that first relationship. But in that first relationship, it’s them learning. We don’t talk about costs a lot or anything like that. And then we schedule a second follow up, and that’s where we get into the other things. And it’s the second follow-up where I’m like, oh, now we’re going to talk ab

Where are your best leads coming from? It’s an important question, because if you don’t know, then it’s impossible to know where you can go to get more. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today’s episode, co-host Jay McFarland and I will discuss the topic of where are your best leads coming from? Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Thank you. And I’m just going to answer the question. I don’t know. (laughing) I’m just… David: Short podcast. Thanks for listening. Jay: Yeah, I’m just going to say it straight up. I mean, I do have some systems. We do try and use Google Analytics and things like that, and that helps a little bit. But I’ve never done a deep dive yet on this is the source, this is the well or the font of where my best leads have come from. So I’m looking forward to this discussion. David: This is really a good one to look at and to dive into a bit, because I’ve always maintained that if you don’t know where your best leads are coming from, then you don’t know where to go to get more of them, and when you are able to identify it, everything else gets a whole lot easier because now you can go fishing in the same ponds, rather than just trying to put stuff out to anyone and everyone, which is very expensive to do. You can really tune in and focus in on what people are doing, where they’re coming from, how they’re hearing about you so that you can go find more of them. In addition to… well, a number of the businesses that I’ve been involved in over the years, one of them was a retail mail order catalog business that I owned. And in a business like that, it’s absolutely critical to know where your best leads are coming from. Jay: Mm-hmm. David: We would run magazine ads and we would get people out of different magazines. We had ads running on television that were designed to get leads for our catalog business. And every single one of the ads we ran had some sort of mechanism to let us know where they were coming from. If it was calling an 800 number, we had one primary 800 number, but we would give them an extension to ask for. So we’d say, call this 800 number extension 214. Right? And 214 meant that it was coming from this particular TV station or whatever. If they were seeing something online, there would be specific links that they would click through that would tell us where it was coming from. If it was a magazine ad, it was a similar kind of thing on the back of the magazine, it would say, call this number, dial this extension, or go to this web address, and there would be a slash with a suffix on the url.. Jay: Mm-hmm. David: And that would tell us where it came from. And when people would call in, one of the first things that our people were required to ask them is, “where did you hear about us?” And there was a box there that they would fill out. Where did you hear about us? Oh, I saw your ad on such and such a magazine, or, I saw your ad on such and such a TV station. And so we would have the data that the computer said based on what they came in and said, and then we would also have the data corresponding with whatever the person said. So I was pretty pathological about it, and to this day I’m still very pathological about determining where leads come from. Even now when, you know, at the end of this podcast, when you say, how do people find out more? And I give out a link that link tracks back to the podcast, it lets me know that the people who register on that link, Came from the podcast. And if they’re coming from some other ad, then it’s going to have a different code and that sort of thing. So it’s not that hard to do when you discipline yourself to do it. And most people don’t do that until and unless they realize how much it is actually worth to you when you do that right. Jay: Yeah, absolutely. And in today’s world, honestly, there is no excuse. It is so easy. There is so much data out there. If you want to target a specific group, you can target that group. And that’s kind of the process, right? You’re going to send out a link for this podcast, you’ll know who you get back. You’ll know age groups and those types of things. And then you’ll be like, well, let’s adjust it this way, or let’s adjust it that way. I mean, never in our history has there been such an easy way to say, I want this age group who’s interested in this type of thing. And then you can target that group. And then based upon that new batch of information you can target in even more. And I know we all kind of complain that we’re being tracked everywhere we go, but at the same time, we’re all asking for it. We’re subscribing to newsletters, we’re hitting the like button. We’re feeding all of that information. So it becomes this circle, right? And I think it’s incredible pers

To increase the value of your business, consider this: If your business burns down, you don’t want that to happen, right? But if your business burns down and you’ve got whatever, desks and furniture and things like that, that stuff’s all insured. You should be able to come back from that okay. But if your book of business burns down, right? If you still have all this overhead, but you don’t have that book of business anymore, you are really in trouble. Because if you’ve got desks and you’ve got furniture, and you’ve got technology and everything, and you don’t have the ability to sell to the people that you need to sell to, at that point, what’s that really worth? All of that becomes overhead. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today’s episode, co-host Jay McFarland, and I will be discussing building the value of your business. Welcome back Jay. Jay: Hey, I’m so glad to be here, David. And once again, you hit me with another term where I’m like, do I really know what the value of my business is? And value has such a different meaning for so many, right? Value could be. Well, it gives me free time. I hate my business, but it gives me free time. So it’s of great value. Or it’s of great value because I have all these shiny toys, you know, those types of things. So I think value could be very different for different people. David: Yeah, it absolutely can. Particularly when we’re thinking about business owners versus salespeople. I mean, when I was thinking about the topic, the value of your business, meaning what would it be worth to someone else if they wanted to buy it from you? And what that means for a business owner is what someone would actually pay for the business. What it means for a salesperson is what is your book of business worth? If you’re building something up and somebody wanted to buy your book of business, what would that be worth? That’s what I was thinking of in terms of value, but you touched on a lot of other great points regarding the term. Jay: Yeah, like I said, there’s so many other things. And I’ve talked to people who have said, yeah, I’m thinking about selling my business. And I ask them, well, what’s it worth? And they look at me like I have no idea whatsoever. In fact, I was working for Kinko’s way back when, when they wanted to sell. And they wanted to go public first, and the SEC came in and said, you don’t know what you own. You don’t know what you owe. You don’t know anything about your business. You have the worst paperwork system we’ve ever seen in our lives. You’re not going public. And so they went and found a private buyer, which was FedEx, who went and bought FedEx Kinko’s. So just in how you manage your business can affect the value of that business. David: Yeah, absolutely. And for a lot of people, the value of their business isn’t going to be FedEx Kinko’s worthy, very likely. Jay: Yeah. David: But still, it’s good to know. And, for some it might be worth more than that. But for most people, particularly small to medium sized businesses, when they’re looking to sell, they really don’t have any idea of what the business is worth or what it could be worth to someone else. And in different industries, there are different metrics and multipliers that people use. They say, okay, well, we’re going to take a multiple of your net value. In other words, what is, bottom line, after owner’s compensation and things like that. They have a number of different metrics that people use. But in a lot of cases, that’s what it boils down to. What’s it likely to be worth to someone else? And Glen Holt, who was a professional in the promotional products industry for a long time, one of my mentors in the early days, I remember he was talking about that when people are looking to buy a business, really what they’re paying for is the likelihood of future business. Because the only way I’m going to want to spend a dime on a business is if I know it’s going to generate a high multiple of that over a period of time, whether it’s two years or five years, or seven years or 10 years, whatever that multiple ends up being. So that at some point I know that I’m going to be able to recoup my investment and then make more going forward. Jay: Yeah, exactly. Maybe you envision running this business forever and then you hand it off to your kids and their kids and, a lot of parents find out their kids don’t want the business, and so it’s not easy to offload it that way. But I like the idea of even if you’re never considering running your business, things happen. Right? Medical things happen. Emergencies happen. You may find yourself someday saying, “I don’t want to sell, but I have to sell because of my circumstances.&#8221

When you want to qualify your leads and you approach it from the standpoint of looking for relationships that are going to be mutually beneficial, then it does become a lot easier. Because it’s not just about me saying, okay, I’m going to disqualify this person because of A, B, and C. If part of that equation is I don’t feel like I can help them, then you’re really acting with integrity. Because you’re not wasting their time and you’re not trying to sell them something that they can’t use, don’t need, don’t want, can’t afford. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today’s episode, co-host Jay McFarland and I will be asking the question, how do you qualify your leads? Welcome back Jay. Jay: So great to be here, David. And another great important discussion for people in sales or any type of business. You know, we had this process in our company where we had set up a situation where, man, we were getting the phone to ring like crazy. We were getting leads. We were like so excited. And then we started looking at the close rate, the conversion rates and who these leads were. And you know what, probably 10% of them were looking for the product that we had to offer. So in having what some would call a successful marketing campaign, we were actually costing ourselves a lot of time and money. David: Yeah, and in a situation like that, but also in pretty much any other sales situation, there is a process of elimination that has to happen. Now, if 90% of the leads that you’re generating are really wildly unqualified, then yeah, you definitely want to tweak your marketing to try to improve those odds. But depending on the value of the client, the value of the sale itself. The long-term value of the client. If they end up doing business with you again and again and again, then even numbers like that could potentially work. As long as the rest of the math works. Jay: Yeah. and actually what we did is we just kept tweaking, right? So we just kept changing our keywords and our searches, and we got to the point where I would say 98% of our calls are right in that zone. Now, clearly we don’t convert all of those calls, but if you can really build a funnel where you can know that you’re at least talking to people who want what you have to offer. Wow. You have jumped ahead in the game. David: Absolutely. Now, for purposes of our discussion today, when we talk about qualifying leads, ’cause actually that would be a great subject for another podcast where we talk about what we can do when we’re trying to bring in the right people. But regardless of who you’re bringing in now, there is very likely a conversion ratio, like what you mentioned, whether it’s 10% or whether it’s 20% or 40% or 60%, whatever that percentage is. If you’re dealing with similar types of leads, there is probably a reasonably consistent conversion ratio that you’re working with. Jay: Mm-hmm. David: And if you want to improve on that, without diddling with the front end, then a lot of that is going to boil down to your lead qualification procedure. What am I saying to people? What am I asking them to determine whether or not they are a good fit for us? Jay: Yeah. And are you even doing that or are you, like we talked about in the last podcast, are you just jumping right into the sales process or are you taking some time to really find out if you’re a good fit? Because that’s going to be better for them and it’s going to be better for you in the long run. David: Exactly. And it also ties back to a an earlier podcast we did where we were talking about people who are worthy of our time and attention, right? So that also gets down to this level of qualification. And each of these things that we’re talking about are sort of slices or pieces of the same thing, which is why I like these podcasts when we’re having an opportunity to talk about these different pieces of the puzzle. Because having a bunch of them right, makes a lot more things go right. And so, when we talk about qualification, that to me is a really important one because we can’t always control the quality of the leads that are coming in. And in those situations, we want to have a process in place that will allow us to disqualify the poor quality prospects as quickly as possible so we’re not wasting a lot of time with them. Jay: Yeah, and again when you talked about worthiness, we’re deciding with our business model, with the amount of profit we need for sale, with the spend that we need to have, our customers have to be worthy of our time. Figuring out all of those things before you even start talking about numbers and those types of things. Again, it’s going to be better for both sides. Both sides have a much better chance of being happy when you start off with that frame of mind, David: No question. And when you menti

Most people don’t consider the idea of creating value in their communication. So if you’re doing this, obviously, you’re not telling your customer “well, I’m here to create value in our communication,” right? You’re just doing it. You’re adding value in the conversation. You’re thinking about, “what can I say when I reach out to this person the next time to make this communication more interesting, more beneficial?” By doing that, you’re going to create that in their brains and they’re not even going to know why it’s happening. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today’s episode, co-host Jay McFarland, and I will be discussing creating high value communications. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey, David, once again, great to be here with you as we talk again about a topic that I know in my business career, we probably haven’t had this conversation a lot. Communication is just something that happens. And it may depend on whether you’re old school or new school. Old school, we’re just making phone calls and picking up the phone. And that’s high value communication. And if it’s new school, we’re texting and emailing. And that’s the extent of the thought process. David: Yeah, and I think the adjective here, the high value part of it may be what we’re bringing to the discussion today. Because you’re right, communication in business is expected. It comes with the job. Mm-hmm. And we’re always going to be communicating. But the fact of the matter is that particularly now, as people are more and more likely to skip over communication, if they don’t like what you’re saying or if they don’t feel like it’s worthwhile to them, it becomes more important for us to ask ourselves “am I creating value in this conversation?” Am I creating value in this email, this text, this phone call, this podcast, right? Because if we’re not communicating value in the discussion, then we’re doing our listeners a disservice. We’re doing whoever it is that we’re calling a disservice. Whoever we’re emailing, we’re doing them all a big disservice. So, If we consider the idea that we need to be engaged in high value communication as much as possible, it will very likely change what we’re saying at any given time. Jay: Yeah, such a great point. I think that most people now are engaging these new technologies that make the communication part automatic, right? Like drip campaigns, newsletters, automatic texting or whatever. So that part of the equation is fairly easy to implement. But then the real question, as you’re bringing up, is if I’m not providing value in that communication, I am training the customer or the potential customer to block me out. Because that’s the other thing that’s so easy. It’s so easy to automatically communicate. But on the other end, it is so easy for me when I hit delete in my messages. It says, do you want to block this sender? And that’s it. It’s done. It’s over. So that’s why you want to focus on that word value. David: Yeah, and particularly now when people are using AI to help generate communications. And my belief is that’s going to cause a lot of communications to start looking like other communications. Mm-hmm. And everybody’s going to be saying pretty much the same things. But if you are operating with the intent of creating value in the communication that’s going to be a component that you might be adding that other people aren’t going to be adding into their algorithm, whether it’s with AI or whether it’s what they’re doing themselves. And you also raised a great point, which is the idea of if you’re not doing this, you are training people essentially to ignore you. And wow, that’s not what we want to train people to do. Jay: Right. my email service now, I use Mac right at the top now, they put the unsubscribe button, like that’s the first thing I see. So it is so easy, and I just think about it. There are newsletters that I keep, that I allow to keep coming, and there are those that I unsubscribe to immediately. And I kind of do this thing where I, okay, I’ll scan down quick. And I’m looking for value for me. Because I have a time to value, you know, ratio. So I’m looking, is this something, is there anything in here that this person’s sending me that I really care about? And if I get one or two and the answer is no, they’re done. That’s it. You’ll never get through to me again. David: Right. And when you think about it, particularly with something like email, but it also applies to texts or whatever, When you’re looking through your inbox, you’re going to see two things. You’re going to see who it’s from,

When you are choosing worthy clients and making decisions about whether or not a prospect is worthy of your time and attention, whether or not they’re worthy of follow up, you are bound to make some mistakes in that process. And so when you do this, you have to recognize that some of that is going to come with the territory. You may make a wrong decision that will cost you some business down the line. So you have to weigh that against quality of life issues. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today’s episode, co-host Jay McFarland, and I will be discussing choosing worthy clients. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey, thank you, David. It’s such a pleasure to be back on again. And once again, I love this topic. I feel like, personally in my experience, there is a tendency to believe that you have to take every client. And you know what? In some businesses that is true, you’re going to take every customer who comes through the door. In other cases, you can be more selective and it could make your life a lot easier. It can make your business a lot better. David: Yeah, that’s one of the reasons I thought this would be a really good topic, because I believe that in many businesses they don’t even consider this. I think that in many businesses we feel like, okay, we’re going to serve whoever we can serve. We want to take whoever comes through the door, and we just want to serve them to the best of our ability. And while that is noble, it’s not always great from your own standpoint, from your own business standpoint. And I wish this was something that I knew from the beginning, but it was not. As most things, we learn it the hard way and this is no exception. And at some point along the way, the idea of pursuing worthy clients, choosing worthy clients, tracking down worthy clients just really started to appeal to me. And when I started using that term with some of my clients, they were like,” wow, that never even occurred to me. and what do you mean by worthy? You know, things like that. So we can dive into all of that in today’s podcast. Jay: Yeah. I think that there are some things that we hear over the years and they start to sink in. We just don’t ever challenge ’em in our mode of thinking. Like I think of the customer’s always, right. I’ve come to believe. No, no, that’s just not true. Do I want to do everything to satisfy the customer? Yes. Yes, I do. But there are customers who can never be satisfied or I can’t provide what they want. So, no, they’re not always right. So I love that we have these discussions. So let’s start off with this word worthy. What in your mind is a worthy customer? David: Well, I think we have to decide that for ourselves, what we determine to be a worthy prospect or client for ourselves. And some of that can go back to what you talked about, in the customer’s always right or the customer’s not always right. But you can have a customer that is absolutely right about things and you can have a good relationship with them, but they may not still be a worthy client if they are taking up more time than they are costing. So if they’re not really focused on buying from you to the extent that you need them to in order to be worthy of your time and attention, it may be something as simple as that. And in those situations, I’m not suggesting, okay, well you’re just going to bag all these people. If you’ve got a relationship with someone and you like the relationship you have and you’re okay with it, then you can deem that prospect or client worthy. You can say, “all right, well, I like dealing with this person, therefore they are worthy of my time and attention.” But for me, I believe that’s where it starts. We each have to decide. Is this prospect or is this client worthy of my time and attention? Because obviously our time is the most important asset we have, and when we fail to recognize that, we can invest a lot of it, we can spend a lot of our time on prospects and clients who are not worthy of our time and attention. And it could go back to what they’re buying from us or not buying from us. It can also get down to personalities. If they’re rude, obnoxious, belligerent, then they’re unworthy in a lot of cases to do business with us. And I think sometimes as salespeople or as business owners, We don’t really look at it that way. We think, well, we have to be worthy. We have to grovel and try to get their approval and all that sort of thing. And I don’t really think it’s like that. I think it certainly has to be a two-way street. Because anyone that we decide to do business with also has to decide to do business with us. They have to decide if they think that we are worthy of working with them. But that’s their job. Our job is to determine if they are worthy of working with us. And to

The idea of The Four Mores is to recognize that if you want to maximize profit but you’re just focusing on bringing in more clients — you are very likely missing out on 75% of the available profits that are going to come from these other three quadrants. Maximize Profit with The Four Mores David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. Today, co-host Jay McFarland and I will be talking about The Four Mores: More clients, more money, more margin, more often. Great to see you again, Jay. Jay: Yeah, it’s good to be here. And I feel like there’s one more more, if you can get all of those. More happiness and more peace of mind, right? David: Yeah. That’s true. There are more than four mores. Jay: Yes. Quadrant #1: More Clients David: I think that what we’re thinking of here is that these four mores are designed to increase the value of our clients and increase the value of our businesses. A lot of times when people are thinking in terms of growing their sales and profits, they think in terms of the first more. They think in terms of more clients. “I need to get more clients, “I need to get more business.” And so many business owners focus their time and attention exclusively on bringing in more customers. And sometimes what ends up happening is they forget about the ones that they have. And they start to lose track of the fact that they could be drifting off. Anyone who’s been in business for any length of time has heard the old adage that it costs a whole lot more to bring in a new customer than it does to resell an existing customer or to satisfy an existing customer. Stop Missing Out But it’s easy to lose sight of. And so the idea of The Four Mores is to recognize that if you’re just focusing on one thing — bringing in more clients — you are very likely missing out on 75% of the available profits that are going to come from these other three quadrants. Jay: Wow. That’s very good. And kind of like we talked about last time, moving people into that center zone, that loyalty zone. Right? David: Yes. Jay: And then, if they’re reoccurring, I mean it just makes life so much better. If you have a loyal base and then you’re bringing in more clients, to me it’s just the perfect pattern, right? David: Yeah, it does. So now we’ve got sort of conflicting visual images, however. Because last time we were talking about a target. Now we’re talking about quadrants, but it’s all designed to accomplish the same thing. Which is to get more of our clients buying from us more often. Spending more money with us at higher profit margins so that we can continue to grow the business, service those people. And without the profit part of it, you’re dead in the water. I mean, you cannot continue to operate without that. So each of these four components is absolutely critical to being able to grow the business the way that we want to do it. What About Quality of Life? Jay: Yeah. A good, healthy business that is making money, is growing, has loyal customers. And hopefully giving you peace of mind and maybe some quality of life. Right? David: Exactly. Yeah. Quality of life is a nice bonus for some people <laugh>. It should be a requirement, but it’s not always a requirement. Sometimes we sacrifice quality of life just to reach our financial goals. Sometimes, particularly in the early stages of a business. But eventually, yeah, we learn. But one of the things about this topic that I think is so important is that when you look at each of these four elements and you focus on them and you focus on improving them, it does improve your quality of life. Because now you’re not investing a lot of time on aspects of the business that are less important. Because if you think about the idea of bringing more clients through the door, obviously that’s an important consideration. When you think of the idea of when I talk about more clients, more money, more margin, more often. More clients, we bring more clients of the door. Quadrant #2: More Money David: More money. Well, what does that mean? It means that we can potentially increase the value of each transaction with someone. If somebody spent $500 with me before, can they spend $750 with me next time? Or can they spend a thousand next time? And again, it’s not just about increasing prices. It’s about providing more advanced solutions. In some cases they that are worth more money to them so that we can charge more. So we can sort of ascend them up that ladder. Quadrant #3: More Margin More margin, the things that I’m selling. Is there sufficient or can there be more profit margin built into that sale? Sometimes our focus is so much on being competitive on price that you can cut your way to lower prices. But at some point it becomes counterproductive. Because if you are losing money on every order, then volume is just going to kill you faster. <laugh&#

The best way to get more responses from your prospects and clients is to sequence your communication. If I’ve got a sequence in place that says, all right, when I get a lead from a networking function, what I’m going to do is I’m going to initially, either same day or next morning, send out this email message, which essentially says, “it was great meeting you at the networking function. Nice having a chance to talk.” And then. you’ve got something that is said in that email that is designed to elicit a response. Some will initiate a dialogue, some of them won’t. So from that point, if you don’t hear back, you could have another one that goes out a couple of days later saying, Hey never heard back you on this, but something else occurred to me that I didn’t mention and then you add something else to the conversation that could potentially be of interest to them. So you’re not just hitting them with “call me, call me, call me, call me.” You’re actually creating value in the communication, which is also particularly key when you’re doing sequencing like that. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today’s episode, co-host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing the topic of sequencing your communication. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey, David. Great to be with you again. I really love that we dive into these things that can have such an impact on your daily business. Oftentimes people will focus on the large things, not understanding that sometimes the smallest tweaks can make all the difference. David: Yeah, and things like this really are kind of diving deep. And many times I know other people in podcasts or in stuff that’s actually going out to the public, they’ll just keep it all high level and not really get into too much. I think we’ve done a reasonably good job over the years of diving a little deeper and getting into things in a little bit more detail. Because it’s important for people who watch this or listen to this to recognize that there are a lot of aspects to all of this. And we touched on this in the previous episode. We were talking about sort of the high level goals, we were talking about the high level concepts versus the nitty gritty of what do I have to do on a day-to-day basis. And this really gets more into the idea of the nitty gritty. But sequencing is something that I don’t hear many people talk about in business. And I think it’s a real game changer for people in the sense that when you get this and you start implementing it, it changes the way that you interact with your prospects and clients to make what you are doing better and more appealing than what your competition is probably doing. Jay: Yeah, such a great point. And back to the idea of focusing on the smaller stuff. I’m weird. I call myself lazy because I want to avoid steps and reduce steps, but in the name of that laziness, I will spend weeks trying to create a system, whether it’s a software system or a planning system or something, just knowing that over the long run, it’s going to have such a dramatic impact. And I can be lazy about that thing after that. And I’m focused. I mean, if I can reduce one little step, I’ll spend weeks trying to figure out how to do that. David: Yeah. But that’s smart. I don’t think that’s lazy. I think it’s far lazier to just go into each situation, not knowing what’s going to happen, not knowing how to respond to the common objections you get, not knowing how to create a system that will allow you to bring clients through the door like clockwork. And when you do that, you’re basically going into work every day with no idea of what’s going to happen. So I think that’s really lazy and really sloppy and I don’t think what you described is lazy at all. Jay: Well, I don’t, you know, I think you’re probably right, but it is something that drives my wife crazy and it’s really bad. Like when we go grocery shopping, I have a route, and that route has a very specific design. It’s based upon how the groceries are going to end up on the conveyor belt. And that’s important because that determines on how they will go into the bags, because I want the bread on top and all of those things on top. So I have this all planned and thought out from years of experience. It brings me joy, David, it’s, it’s a little, probably obsessive compulsive, but that’s the way I am. David: That’s funny and she still lets you come along. That’s amazing. But it’s a great example though, because when you think about that, and there are two schools of thought when it comes to outcomes, right? Because what you’re describing is a more outcome driven approach. And it reminds me of the expression, the road is better than the inn, if you’ve heard that one

Achieving goals is quite different than just setting them. So while the first step may be to set the goals you really want, then we have to prioritize our actions from high to low. What is the most important thing that I need to do in order to get there? Because generally, you can come up with a dozen or a hundred different things that you’re going to need to do to reach your goals. But there’s probably one to three things on there that are going to be more important than the other 97. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today’s episode, co-host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing achieving your goals. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey, so glad to be here, David, and once again, I’m looking forward to this discussion. We hear people talk about goals all the time, and I know for me it’s something that I struggle with because what will happen is I’ll set those goals. I really haven’t defined how I’m going to get there, and then when I don’t achieve them, it becomes something that deflates me. So I think for a lot of people, goal setting can work against them. David: I think it can too, because I believe there is a lot of focus on goal setting, and it’s something that we do, particularly at the beginning of a new year. A lot of people focus on their new year resolutions, which are their goals. And while there’s been a lot written about goal setting, the importance of goal setting, writing things down, reviewing it regularly, having your affirmations and things like that. All of those things are certainly helpful, but they don’t actually, directly connect to the idea of achieving the goals. And that’s why I wanted to title this the way that I did, because setting your goals has been done to death, but how do we go about achieving it? And I think it’s interesting to explore that aspect of this topic. Jay: Well, yeah. And one of the things that frustrates me is, when people talk about goal setting, they tend to assume that everybody’s the same. Oh, just follow this and you’re great. It’s like, I read seven Habits of Highly Successful People and what was never mentioned or considered in that was, it was also seven habits for highly organized people already. You had already achieved a level where all you had to do was put these things in place and you’re good. Well, what about me? I wasn’t raised with systems and those kind of things, so what about me? I didn’t feel like there was any place that I could implement that. David: Yeah. And that is very common. I mean, I think everyone probably deals with that because unfortunately, when you’re writing a book that’s going to be on a shelf for a long period of time, you have to include things that are essentially timeless. And the Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. I mean, it’s such a great book. It’s a very inspirational read. But when you’ve got rules, like “Be Proactive,” that’s a big, broad rule, right? And. In many cases you can be proactive, but what does that mean? It gets down to the nitty gritty. And we’ve talked in the past about Michael Gerber, the author of the E-Myth. And I love that book. The E-Myth, The E-Myth Revisited. I read the original copy a long, long time ago, and I just loved it. I’m like, okay, because this was all about processes. And that book talked primarily about the fact that you have to have processes. But then what are those processes, right? Because that’s the part that people like you and I need. It’s like, okay, well what are the processes and how do I do that and how do I make that happen? And so, so much of my career has been focused on that. Okay, how do I turn this great recommendation, “be proactive,” you know? Jay: Yeah. David: “Work on your business, not just in your business.” How do I take broad statements like that? To some extent, they become platitudes, and how do I turn that into something that is actionable? Because that is the only way we’re going to be able to achieve our goals, is if we are able to convert those great ideas into actionable tasks. Jay: Yeah. and such a key point. I think for me, what I found is I have to break it down enough to where I can feel that feeling of success instead of failure. Right? So it’s got to be minute enough to where I can say, okay, I did, I accomplished something. And it could be something very simple. But that motivates me to the next step. I find if they’re too big, then I’m setting myself up for disappointment. David: Absolutely. But I think anyone who reads any sort of self-help material or any sort of business material, if you can take what they’re giving you and then just ask yourself right away, “how do I apply this right now to my business?” Again, Seven Habits, “begin with the end in mind.” Jay: Right

I know people who have been in business for decades and they’ve held onto clients 5, 10, 15 years longer than they should have, because they never got this simple thing down. Declare independence from poor quality clients. If you’ve got a way to generate new clients consistently, like clockwork, you don’t have to deal with that. You can become independent from poor quality clients, but you have to have that plan in place. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. It is Independence Day in the United States, and today co-host Jay McFarland and I will be declaring independence from underperforming business tactics. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey, thank you so much David, and happy 4th of July to you and everybody else, and once again, I love this topic because I think there’s a lot of things that we’re all doing that we really haven’t stood back and assessed. Is that productive? Do I just do it because I’ve always done it. A good analysis of these things could probably save you a lot of time and effort. David: Yeah, absolutely. And personally, I just love the 4th of July. I love Independence Day. I love the idea of independence. I think a lot of people do. And whether or not it’s actually achievable on a personal or a business level, because it’s probably not. I mean, we’re all dependent on other people to some extent or another. But to the extent that it is possible, I like to sort of look at what are the things that I would like to become independent of? What are the things that I’m dependent on that I’m not comfortable with? And then say, “alright, what can I do to change that?” So I feel like that’s a reasonable starting point. Understanding that, are we really going to be completely independent? Well, no, we’re going to have to get our food from somewhere. We’re going to have to have customers. There are a lot of things that we’re dependent on. In most industries, I mean, we’re going to be dependent on suppliers, prospects, customers, supply chains, availability of cash or credit. That’s not going to change. We will be dependent on some of those things, but what are the things that we can become independent of? That’s what I think starts to get interesting. Jay: Yeah. I totally agree with you and I’ve, had this experience where somebody from the outside has come in, and maybe they’re just new to the company or maybe they’re a consultant and they look at what we’re doing and they’re like, why are you doing this? And I sit back and I go, Well, I’m not really sure. And then I’ve had the same thing where people have asked me to come into their business and within seconds, sometimes I can identify things and we get in that tunnel vision, and we don’t take time to step back and say, you know, why are we doing those things? I would really like independence from this thing, but I feel like it’s necessary. And maybe it’s not. David: Yeah. And if you consider the things that you really want to sort of separate yourself from, the things that you really want to become independent of. Like when I think about that, for me, it’s like, okay, I know that I’m going to be dependent on suppliers to some extent, but can I become independent of poor quality suppliers, right? Jay: Mm-hmm. David: I know I’m going to be dependent to some extent on prospects. But can I become independent of poor quality prospects? Poor quality clients, right? If there are clients that I’m interacting with because they’re in there and I’m afraid to let go of them, what do I have to do to change that? What do I have to do to become confident enough in my ability to generate new clients that I’d be willing to let go or sacrifice some of the old ones? And that’s where I feel like this conversation has value. Jay: Yeah, I totally agree with you. And you know, it just occurs to me how many people got into business, started their own business because they wanted independence. And now the question is, did you find that independence or did you give yourself a job where you’re working twice as many hours, but you’re making the same amount of money. Did you just get yourself a job that you hate? So again, I love this idea of independence and really just, you know, like you said, it doesn’t mean you’re going to free yourself up from everything, but can you improve each of those things, whether it’s efficiency… One of the things that I’ve seen that causes a real lack of independence is cashflow problems. You know, you’re making enough money, but you’re not getting that money at the right time. And so can you adjust that? Are there things that you can do there? David: Yeah. And if you just look at the things that drive you crazy on a daily basis, chances are you’re going to see

Getting from Obscurity to Loyalty in the mind of the client is all about building relationships, and I’m all about that! Until I sell you something and then I’m off doing the next thing, and I forget about you completely, until and unless you call again. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. Today, co-host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing how you get from obscurity to loyalty in the mind of a new prospect. Welcome back, Jay. Great to have you here… Jay: Thank you, David. And once again, I’m super excited about this. How Do You Move from Obscurity to Customer Loyalty? Jay: I feel like customer loyalty is the holy grail of having a business. But I’m not sure if people know how to get their customers to that point. So I’m very excited. Where do you even start with that? From obscurity to loyalty. How do you begin this process? David: Yeah, it’s a fun topic because I think again, most people don’t think of it like this. It sort of ties back to what we were talking about last week. But the idea of getting from total obscurity to blind customer loyalty for most people just seems impossible. You know, “how do you do that?” But if you think about it, one of the things that I normally do, if I’m explaining this to an audience, I’ll draw a target on a flip chart. At the center of the target, the bullseye is blind customer loyalty. This is just loyal. I would never consider doing business with anyone else, but you. And then, a couple of rings out — outside the circles — you have obscurity, total obscurity. I have no idea who you are. I have no idea that you’re taking in air on the planet. I have no idea why I should do business with you, right? Intelligent Repetition of Contact And so you’re not going to get from total obscurity to blind customer loyalty in one step. It’s going to require intelligent repetition of contact, which is something we talked about last time as well. So when you think about it, there are stages you have to go through to get there. The first step is to move from obscurity, “I don’t know who you are,” to recognition, “Oh, I recognize you.” I recognize that you’re here. I don’t love you. I don’t hate you. I don’t know you well enough to do either of those things. But I recognize that you’re alive. So recognition is that first step. Jay: Okay. Moving from Obscurity to Recognition David: And when we think in terms of communication, the type of communication that you will engage in to let somebody know you’re alive is very different than the type of communication that you’ll engage in to get them to be more loyal to you and to get them to place that first-time order. So that initial step — moving from obscurity to recognition — that’s step one. Then from recognition, the next thing we have to get it to is some level of comfort. They have to be comfortable enough with you to have additional conversations, to place that first-time order with you. And then once they’re comfortable with you, that first order happens. From there, if you perform properly, if they place that order, and if you deliver the way you’re supposed to and everything works out well, then they might say, “okay, I’ll give you another chance and we’ll do it again.” Getting from Recognition to Comfort At that point, they’re in that comfort ring. They’re in that comfort level. You can operate in the comfort level for quite some time. And if you continue to perform in the comfort level, then eventually you start to move into that bullseye area. You start to move into that area of loyalty where people essentially say “Okay. I’m going to continue to come back to you… unless you mess up.” Jay: Mm-hmm David: So now at that point, I’m pretty loyal. I’m kind of loyal. But then if you continue to deliver and you continue to maintain that relationship, then you move closer and closer to the center. And then eventually up right there in the middle where they just wouldn’t consider doing business with anyone else. Customer Loyalty is the Bullseye As a visual, I think that’s a great way to go. So they can recognize sort of where they are and where they need to move. Jay: Yeah. I think you described it perfectly. I also think that it’s maybe easier if, when they’re in the comfort zone, to bounce them out in the wrong direction than to move them into the center. David: Yeah. Particularly when you don’t realize that this is even happening, right? Because most people don’t think of this, Jay. For most people, “I’m interacting with somebody and we’re having some sort of sales experience.” However it is that you and I got together, I’m working on trying to get this order taken care of for you. I get that done.

If our storytelling allows us to build trust, build credibility, build a bond, and increase sales, then we’re telling the right stories. If it’s just designed to be manipulative, then save your breath. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today’s episode, co-host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing the power of storytelling in sales. Jay, tell me a story. Jay: Listen, I am a storyteller. I love to tell stories and I like to build when I tell stories, right? And so this is something that I use on a regular basis when I’m talking to people and it’s not just telling a story. I think it’s putting people in a story and what character are they in that story? And I think most people want to be the hero in their own story, right? David: They do. which gets to the whole idea of the hero’s journey and all that kind of stuff for anybody who follows that sort of storyline or that Jay: mm-hmm. David: type of story arc, The Hero’s Journey by Campbell, I can’t think of his first name. But it’s a book and it describes essentially the plot of most of the most popular movies of all time. Jay: Yeah, David: Right. Star Wars, Rocky, anything where you’ve got this person who is initially kind of beaten down and not winning, and then they come in contact with a mentor and then they learn new things and they have a confrontation and it might not go well, and then they learn some more things and then eventually they come out triumphant. There’s a whole arc. And you’re right, a lot of people want to be the hero, and the challenge as a salesperson is, in our storytelling, we can’t be the hero. Mm. Right. We need to make sure that the person we’re talking to is the hero and that we are the mentor or guide. We’re not Luke Skywalker. We have to be Yoda. We have to be the one who’s helping Luke to destroy the Death Star. Jay: Yeah. This is a really hard thing, I think for a lot of people. Because we want to go in and think we’re the hero, right? I’m coming into your business. I’m going to provide something that is going to save the day, and then I’m going to walk away and you’re going to praise me and you’re going to pay me. But that’s not what really is supposed to be happening, right? It’s that I have the tools and the resources that you need to be the hero. David: Yes, and it’s easy to forget that, particularly when we’re trying to read ourselves in as the hero to each story. But one of the things that I’ve noticed in sales is that many, if not most of the very best salespeople are also the best storytellers. You can say. “Hi, do you know what time it is?” And instead of getting the time, you will get a fantastic story that might weave the time into it. Jay: Mm. David: But you’re going off in all kinds of directions, and when they do it right, it’s captivating enough that you sit there and pay attention. Jay: Yeah. But you pointed out “when you do it right.” David: Yes. Jay: Right. so let’s talk about that a little bit. Let’s talk about your feedback on doing it right. David: Well, number one, as we already touched on, it can’t just be all about you. You can’t make the story about yourself. You need to make it about them, and a lot of that upfront comes from finding out about them, which means you’re asking more questions, then you’re answering, hopefully in the early stages. Jay: Yes David: Because customers always just want to know what it’s going to cost upfront, and you don’t generally want to lead off with that. So a lot of our storytelling will actually have to come from the conversations that ensue after we’ve gathered enough information. Jay: Yeah. David: To know what those stories need to be about. If we just go in and we meet somebody for the first time and we start telling them stories, that’s probably not ideal. We need to still initially do some sort of diagnostic upfront to find out what their interests are. Now, of course, a lot of salespeople, they do the whole thing about walking into the office, looking around, oh, I see a big buck hanging up there on the, Jay: mm-hmm. David: On the wall. The person’s a hunter. You start talking to them about hunting, that type of thing. And, it’s very obvious. It works in some situations to break the ice, so you can ask the person. Because the other thing about storytelling is it doesn’t just have to be you telling stories. If you can get the prospect to be telling stories to you, then they’ll be more likely to engage in a longer conversation because most people are more interested in hearing what they have to say versus what somebody else has to say. Jay: Yeah. David: So sometimes you can just let somebody talk for a long time and they feel like they had the best conversation, even though th

When I think in terms of upselling versus cross-selling, what’s the difference? Upselling to me means selling a better or a higher priced version of the thing that they’re looking at. Whereas cross-selling is making a recommendation of something that’s compatible. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today’s episode, co-host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing the topic of upselling and cross-selling. Are you doing it? Welcome back, Jay Jay: Yeah, hey, thank you, David. Listen, have these bad memories when I was a kid and I was working in a fast food place and the manager was always pressing me, “ask them if they want a Coke, ask them if they want fries.” And I got to a point where it’s hard to upsell and I think this has grown into my adulthood. You know, I just barely got the sale and now I’m asking them for more. It’s not an easy thing to do for people. David: You know, it’s interesting you should mention the fast food example because it’s the perfect example. It’s the one that everyone can relate to. “You want fries with that?” Jay: Yeah. David: Or the shortened version that you hear a lot of times, “want fries with that,” as the four word upsell. And it works extremely successfully for people in that sort of industry. Because it makes sense. Somebody’s coming in, they’re ordering whatever, a burger or something, or they’re ordering a burger and a drink, “want fries with that” makes perfect sense. And some percentage of time they’re going to say yes. And whether that is 1% of the time or 80% of the time, it’s probably maybe 30 to 60% of the time, I would guess, they’re going to say yes. Because it’s like, “oh, all right, sure. Why not? I’m already here.” Jay: Yeah. David: And you hit on a great point, which is that we can feel funny about upselling, if we feel like the purpose is to simply get more money out of a person. If it feels like it’s completely one-sided, if it feels like it’s manipulative, then we’re not going to want to do it. So I personally believe that the times that we should upsell and cross-sell are the times when we truly believe that we have an additional solution that is going to be better for them. Now, in the fast food example, are french fries better for you on top of the Coke and the hamburger? Jay: Yes! David: Probably not from a, health level, but certainly from a satisfaction level, yeah, it’s better. People are likely to want that. But in business, if you’re selling something, and somebody comes to you and they have something very specific they want to buy, and you have something that would be complimentary to that, or something that would go with that really well and would increase the value to the buyer, then you kind of owe it to them to at least ask them if they’re interested in that. Jay: Mm, I love that. I love that idea that if you are feeling uncomfortable, maybe you should ask yourself why. And how do you feel about your product? Are you really providing a value to them or are you just trying to sell something and get a paycheck, right? And I think we all have to ask that question about our own careers and what we’re doing and what we’re selling. But, you know, if you can just feel great that what you’re providing them is going to improve their situation, then you’re just passionate about what you’re doing and that’s going to come through. David: Yeah. So when you are talking to somebody like that, if you’ve got something that is actually going to be a benefit to them, if it’s going to help them, then it’s a lot easier to do it. So that really just boils down to motives. What is the motive? And unfortunately, I think sometimes managers, like in the situation you described in the fast food restaurant, the manager says, “just do this. Ask them if they want this. Push it, push it, push it. Sell, sell, sell.” When instead, if the manager had said to you, Hey, listen, when people come in here, they’re hungry. They want something good. You know, they’ve ordered this, they’ve ordered that other thing, so they might want it and maybe they didn’t think of it. You might want to suggest that. Maybe they want dessert, maybe they want an apple pie at the end, right? Jay: Mm-hmm. David: Apple pie. I’m saying yes to an apple pie, right? And if you don’t ask, you don’t get, and it’s very easy for them to say no. Now, there are situations, and I’ve heard it referred to, particularly in online situations, where there are online upsells where you buy something and then it asks you if you want to buy this and you want to buy that and you want to buy this. Yeah, I’ve heard people refer to that as upsell hell. Now, if you get somebody involved in that, then

To convert more sales and turn leads into customers you need to be dealing with qualified prospects. If somebody is not responsive, you can decide, do I want to continue to pursue this person, or do I want to leave them to my competitors? Let my competitors chase that person. If they’re disqualified, you don’t have to spend time with them at all. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today’s episode, co-host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing the idea of converting more sales: turning leads into customers. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey, David. Such a pleasure to be with you. This is kind of the secret sauce, right? I mean, if we could all increase our conversion rates and bring down our customer acquisition costs that’s where the rubber meets the road. David: Yeah, in a lot of cases it’s a really critical part of it, and I think some people make a mistake upfront when it comes to conversion, and that’s that they want to convert everyone. You know, they just meet somebody for the first time and they immediately go into sales mode. And I think that they can really save themselves and other people a lot of time and a lot of aggravation if they actually start where it really should begin with a little bit of qualification. Trying to find out if they have the need, the desire, the money, the budget, the willingness to spend, those kind of things. Because a lot of times there are salespeople who will spend weeks, months, years pursuing somebody, just to find out once they get an appointment with them that they weren’t qualified to buy to begin with. And you can eliminate that right up front. Save yourself a world of heartache. Jay: Yeah, I love this point, David. I can’t tell you I’ve had this happen, you know, I’m on the phone with somebody and talking about the product and things like that, and then after asking some questions, I realize this is not a good fit. I don’t have the services they’re looking for. And I could have saved us both a lot of time if I had done a little pre-qualification before we got started. David: Yeah. Or if that’s happening on the first call, then you’re pretty good at that point. But literally, I know there are people who have gone to networking functions for a long period of time, and they’re talking to people and trying to get them to agree to an appointment, and then they finally agree to the appointment, and then you get out there and you’re talking to them. I had this experience myself early in my career. I’ll never forget it. There was this guy and I thought he was going to be a great prospect, so I tried to get an appointment with him. He agreed to the appointment. I showed up at his place. His place was a dump and he didn’t show up for the appointment, and I was sitting there looking around and I was thinking, “okay, why am I here?” And so a little bit of diligence upfront and a little bit of qualifying goes a long way. Jay: Yeah, I agree. And I also think technology can do a lot of that pre-qualifying, right? We had the experience where our Google ad buy was not targeting the right people. And so I was getting all these calls and I’m like, “wow, look at these leads we’re getting.” And it turned out I was just wasting time. So I’m wasting money on the Google ad buy. And then I’m wasting money fielding all of these calls. That’s just, you’re spinning your wheels at that point. David: Yeah, absolutely. And when you think about it, pitching unqualified prospects is the single biggest time waster on the planet. So if we can avoid that, we’re going to be a lot better off. Jay: Yeah. I think there’s a tendency though to think, “oh, we can sell anybody.” Or I think the other side of that is if you’re not pre-qualifying, then you don’t have a really good idea of how effective you are as a salesperson, because you’re comparing it to every person you talked to. Like, I’ve talked to a hundred people, my close rate was 20%. Well, if 5% of those were never going to be a lead for you, or never going to be a customer, then you’re not really using accurate numbers. Right? David: Yeah, exactly. Everything’s skewed when you’re doing it that way. So, I mean, I believe qualification upfront is really important and systematic follow up is another thing. If you’re not following up systematically with people, which means that you are in touch with them at the times when you need to be in touch with them, then you’re also going to be at a big disadvantage. Jay: Yeah. and that’s really an area where I struggled a long time ago, and that is if I didn’t get them right away, then I’m going to move on to the next person. David: Mm-hmm. Jay: And like you said, it’s about relationships. And again, I love technology that can do a lot of

To fix your messaging and improve business communication with the TBDs, consider this… If nothing that you convey in your communication, instills any sort of belief in the other person as to why they should take the action that you’re requesting in the third step, then it’s not at all likely they’re going to take that action. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today’s episode, co-host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing the TBDs. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey, it’s such a pleasure to be here with you again, David. We’re talking about communication here and I’ll be honest, oftentimes we’ll discuss a podcast that we want to do, or you’ll send me the topics and I sit here and I think, you know, I’ve never once thought about this type of thing, how to improve communication. I just kind of fall in the trap. You know, I talk to people, I send them emails. I’m guessing that that’s good communication, but I’ve not really thought about it, David. David: Yeah. I sort of introduced this topic backwards, I guess, at the top of this podcast. When I say we’re going to be talking about the TBDs, what we’re really talking about is improving our communication with the TBDs. And for those of you who are saying, “what are they talking about?” Allow me to elaborate. A lot of times when I’m working with clients, one of the things that they’ll ask about is how to improve the results that they’re getting with the communications they’re having with prospects. That could be anything from the messages they’re leaving on people’s voicemails. It could be not getting responses to emails. It could be the things they’re posting on social media, any form of outbound communication, whether it’s one-to-one or one-to-many. What you say in those communications is going to determine what happens. We touched on this a little bit in the previous episode. But if you want to really think about what is going to likely get you the best results, what I ended up boiling it down to for myself and for my clients is what I refer to as the TBDs. Now, when people think of that abbreviation “to be determined,” that’s often what’s used there. That’s not what I’m thinking in terms of. When we’re looking to communicate with other people, particularly when we’re looking to get a result, we want to ask ourselves: “As a result of this communication, what do I want this person to think? What do I want them to believe, and what do I want them to do? Okay? And so if you structure your communication in a way where it addresses those three points, you’re going to be a lot more likely to get at least closer to the result that you’re looking for. If I’m sending somebody an email and there’s nothing in particular that I want them to think, believe or do, there is no reason for me to send that email. Jay: Mm-hmm. David: If I’m making a phone call, if I’m leaving a voicemail message, if I’m doing anything that is initiating contact with another human being, if there’s nothing in particular that I want for them to think, believe, or do, then there’s no point to having the conversation. Now, if you’re calling a loved one, Okay. You know? Jay: Yeah. David: You want them to know that you love them, you want to know that they love you, all that sort of thing. But, in business in particular, in our communications, if we don’t have a reasonably good idea of what we want the other person to think, believe, or do, then there’s not a whole lot of reason to communicate. Jay: Yeah. That’s so powerful because how often or is the temptation I’m calling a client? Hey, just checking in, seeing how you’re doing give me a call back. It’s like, that’s the trap. I think so many of us fall into. I’m not thinking at that moment, what I want them to be thinking is, please call me back because you need me. But I sound kind of desperate and not like there’s a priority. There’s no urgency, there’s nothing really being conveyed. Right? David: Yes. And when we’re doing follow-up calls, when we’re doing check-in calls, and just even using those words in a voicemail message. There’s nothing really compelling for them to respond to there. Is there? Jay: Mm-hmm. David: If you’re saying to somebody, “Hey, I’m just checking in,” it’s like, “okay, well they’re just checking in. I’ve got nothing for ’em at this point. I guess I don’t need to respond to that.” But when you leave a message like that, We have things we want them to think, believe, and do. We want them to think, oh, I’m going to get this message and I’m going to call this person back. We want them to believe that

A lot of people think the goal is to get likes and engagement, but when it comes to the best use of social media in business, conversations and conversions are the metrics that matter. That’s what results in sales. The rest are vanity metrics. Those who think it’s all about views and clicks might be missing the point. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today’s episode, co-host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing the best use of social media in business. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey, thank you so much, David I feel like this is one of those areas where I don’t feel confident in myself, but I’m not in a position yet where I’m going to hire somebody to do it. And so, it’s hard to get motivated every day, because I know it’s an important part, especially in my business. Most of our leads come from the internet and social media, so it’s like I don’t know that this is something I should be handling myself. David: I think a lot of people feel that way, and for many of us, social media can be a huge distraction. And in some cases, like, well, the best use of social media is to keep it turned off if you have to actually get things done. But there are benefits to it when it’s used properly, and part of our Total Market Domination course involves working with our clients to help them through the best forms of first contact with a new prospect. And one of those methods is social media. I mean, you can be doing it via cold calls, you can be doing it via networking events, direct mail, lots of different ways to initiate first contact with a new prospect. But many people like the idea of using social media, particularly because it is a one-to-many method of reaching people. You can post something on social media one time, and hundreds of people could see it, or thousands of people could see it. And so it allows you a great deal of leverage much more than if you’re making one phone call at a time or meeting one person at a time. So there are definitely benefits to utilizing it. And of course, with the benefits come the flip side, the detriments that go along with it in some cases. And so one of the things that a lot of people seem to struggle with is that they go onto social media with one purpose and they end up doing 10 other things that they didn’t plan on doing when they got in there. And they don’t end up doing the thing that they actually wanted to do. And so a lot of it, I think, boils down to the fact that we’re not sure what to do. In a lot of cases. We’re not sure, well, what should I post? What should I say? What should it be designed to do? And there’s so much talk among so many people about creating content, and I’ve done classes on this. The fact that content is kind of a misunderstood word. If you think about what is content? Well, content is whatever’s in something, right? If you’ve got a bag, whatever’s in that bag is the content. Could be something good, could be something very bad, right? But whatever’s in the bag. So if you think of it like that and you say, okay, I have to create content. Well, yeah, but you need to do more than just content. You want to make sure that whatever it is that you’re dispersing to the masses has enough value for people that they say, wow, that was actually worthwhile. That was worth my time. So a lot of what we focus on in the communication aspects of what we do with our clients is related to how do we do that? How do we create value in our communications? And I know I’m sort of rattling off all kinds of different things that could be entirely different podcast subjects. But coming back to the idea of the best use of social media, if you think about what it is, I mean, I’ve got an idea of what I believe it is. Do you have any thoughts on that before I spill the beans on what I think here? Jay: Well, I think it’s going to be different for everybody and what type of clientele you have. I’m guessing a key part of this and we’ve spent a lot of money on my end doing this. Is identifying who our end user is, what, what type of client are we trying to attack? When we first started it, we were and I’ve told you this story before, we were attacking so many leads. It was blowing us out of the water. But the leads were not closing, and so we had to narrow that field, finally to a point where we could just get potential leads. In order to do that, we spent a lot of time around a table figuring out who that potential client is and what are the keywords that are going to be interesting to them? And when you talk about posting content, if you’re just shooting in the dark and you haven’t identified who your target is, then you’re going to spend a lot of time on social media spinning your wheels, and you may be chasing people away or just making them disinterested because you haven’t put

Are your priorities BS? Well, focusing on that area in particular, looking at what are the things in my life that really are important to me? What are the actions that I want to take and need to take that are important to me? Even if they’re not urgent, how can I get those things scheduled so that they have a better likelihood of getting done? David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today’s episode, co-host Jay McFarland and I will discuss the topic Are Your Priorities BS? Welcome, Jay. Jay: Hey, David, as always, such a pleasure to be with you. And another great topic. I think that it’s so easy to just do the squirrel thing or the squeaky wheel gets the grease and we don’t really know what our priorities should be a lot of the time that’s half the battle I think. David: Yeah, I think that’s true. Knowing what our priorities are and recognizing that a lot of times they’re not really what we think they are. And most of the time when I talk about stuff on these podcasts, it’s not because I’m particularly smart, is because I feel like I’ve made every stupid mistake that anyone can make. And so if I can help our listeners and viewers to avoid doing some of those things, then that’s a pretty good service. And when I think about priorities and I reflect on the priorities that I’ve had over the years and over my life, I recognize that we have priorities that we really put out there. We say, okay, this is what’s important to me. What’s important to me is my family. What’s important to me are my friends. What’s important to me is, whatever, losing weight, like if we have goals, my my priority is to do this and to do that, and all these different things. And then when we look at our actions and we realize that our actions don’t really line up with what we say our priorities are, it raises the questions are our priorities BS? And I think in some cases, even when we don’t realize it, they might be. Jay: Yeah. First of all, I’d say there’s nothing wrong with learning in the school of hard knocks. I mean, sometimes those are the best lessons we can learn. But I also think it, we can spin our wheels a lot trying to reinvent the wheel, so learning from other people can help expedite that process. Right? Which is why I’m glad you’re so willing to share the trials that you’ve had. I think that that’s so critical. But I think you’re right. We’ve talked a lot in the past about self assessment. Can you really look at yourself and know what your weaknesses are and what your strengths are? And oftentimes, I think you’re right. We think something is a priority for us, but in the grand scheme of things, and according to our own actions, it’s really not. And we’re kind of fooling ourselves. David: Yeah, and the way that I’ve actually sort of worked through some of this is recognizing that there’s a really big difference between our stated priorities, the things that we say are priorities to us, and then our actual priorities, meaning the priorities we act on the things that we do, the actual steps that we take or don’t take. Because if our priority is to spend time with our family and our actions are that we’re working all the time and we’re not spending time with our family, then we have two different sets of priorities, our stated priorities that always sound good, and then our actual priorities, which is what we’re doing on a daily basis. Jay: Yeah, I see this all the time in like TV reality shows. I don’t know why this comes to mind, but you see people saying, my family is the most important thing to me, and they’re working 80 hours a week at their career, or their job. And I’m sitting there thinking, Hmm, no, I don’t think you really understand what your priorities really are. David: Yeah, and most people are sincere, I think, when they say those things. It’s just that in many cases, life interferes. And when we allow life to interfere, then it turns out that our actual priorities are different than the ones that we’re telling ourselves and telling other people. Jay: So how do we sift through that? How do we do that self assessment and really identify what our core priorities are, and maybe we need to identify them as BS and head in a different direction. David: Well, I put together a worksheet. You can download it here. It’s very simple. It’s basically got stated priorities on the left and actual priorities on the right, and what you do is you list down on the left hand side all the things that I tell other people and that I tell myself are my actual priorities. And then you just keep an eye on what you’re doing every day. Did I take action on my top priority on the left hand side of the page? And if I didn’t, what did I do instead? If my goal is to write a bo

So what is your first contact with a new prospect? Another good question to ask yourself is how does that first contact happen? And is it proactive on my part? David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today’s episode, co-host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing your first contact with a new prospect. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey, it’s good to be with you again. David. When you say first contact, I always think about Star Trek with their first contact with the aliens, and I feel like you’re kind of sitting there going, okay, are these going to be nice? Are they going to try and destroy the human race. You know, there’s a lot of trepidation with first contact and sometimes that first contact, how it goes, determines the whole rest of the relationship. David: That’s exactly where I stole the term from Jay. That is exactly where I stole the term from. And the way that came about is that I was talking to somebody about cold calling. This was years and years and years ago. Well, actually we were talking about prospecting and one of the things that this person mentioned to me was something related to cold calling. And I said, “okay, well, cold calling is one way that you can reach out to people.” I said, “think of it like it’s your first contact.” And literally it was because I had seen that movie about first contact and I thought it’s such a great concept. The idea of whatever, meeting an alien species for the first time is one thing. But for salespeople, you’re exactly right. It’s the same thing. We’re walking into an unknown situation. We have absolutely no idea how the person is going to react and that. Doesn’t matter whether it’s on the phone as a cold call, whether it’s meeting someone at a networking event, whether it’s through social media. We have no idea what’s on the other end until we engage. Therefore, the whole idea, the whole concept of first contact, I think is really highly appropriate. It is the very first contact that we have with a prospect. If you understand that conceptually, it can really sort of open up your mind to the possibilities and to the opportunities. Because there are a lot of people who view whatever it is they do as first contact, as first contact. What I mean is if all they’ve ever done is make cold calls, they view that as first contact. If all they ever have done to generate customers is through social media, that’s what they view as first contact. When you recognize, that’s just a method, that’s just one particular method of first contact, and you realize that there’s a whole other universe. To continue the space analogy here, there’s a whole other universe of options. It really allows you to test different things to figure out what’s going to work best for you. Jay: Yeah. And I love the idea that first contact, when I first thought of this, I was thinking that’s the first time that I meet them voice-to-voice or face-to-face. And in today’s world, that’s probably not going to be the first contact. In my business, the first contact is our website. That’s the first time that they’re going to see us. Now, in my business, I’m very fortunate that our three main competitors, their websites are awful, David, they are terrible. They are designed terribly. They’re hard to read. And all the time I get people saying, literally saying to me, “I chose you because I liked your website.” We’re somebody that offers this high level of expertise and you chose us just because we have a really good web designer. But that was the difference. Their first contact with us is positive, because we’ve spent the time to get that right. David: Yeah, it’s a lot more than the web designer too, because you could have a beautiful design, but if the words on that design are not resonating with them, it’s not going to work. Which goes back to what we talked about before, the MVPs of marketing. The message that’s on that website is definitely going to determine whether or not they’re going to be interested in what you say. Now, the way that is presented, which as you refer to the design, that’s all part of the messaging component. But if the words don’t resonate, if the imaging doesn’t resonate, they’re not going anywhere. But you’re right! So many times, people don’t recognize that first contact is happening all the time. Even with things that you’re not even aware of. You go onto social media and you post something, whether it’s a picture of your dinner or a comment about politics or something business related, that could very well be their first contact with you. And if they hate it, they’re not going to be revisiting. Jay: Yeah, exactly. And that’s why there are companies out there that are designed to h

The trouble with targeting in business is that a lot of people don’t do it well. It reminds me of that line from one of the Godfather movies where Michael Corleone says something along the lines of, “if history has taught us nothing else, it’s that you can get to anybody.” Right? And that is now true in terms of advertising. You can get to anybody, but what is the cost? David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today’s episode, co-host Jay McFarland and I discuss the trouble with targeting. Welcome back Jay. Jay: Hey, David, once again, I’m excited to be here and I’m really excited to get your feedback on this, because when you first said we’re going to talk about the trouble with targeting, I kind of thought in my head, well, isn’t that what I’m supposed to be doing? Aren’t, aren’t I supposed to be targeting? David: Oh yeah. Yeah. We definitely have to target. We definitely need to target. I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with targeting. The trouble with targeting that I was thinking about is that a lot of people don’t do it, and a lot of the people who do do it maybe don’t do it as well as it can be done, and as a result, they don’t get the results they’re looking for. Some people think they’re targeting and they may be doing that, but if you’re not targeting to the point where it’s resulting in better quality prospects, better quality clients, and conversations that lead to sales, then you might need to hone in a little bit better in terms of your targeting efforts and your targeting approach. Jay: Yeah, so as I think about targeting, there’s a lot of work to be done upfront, right? If you’re going to target somebody, you’ve got to know who the target is. And that can take a lot of research on your own part. A lot of experimentation, a lot of looking at past contacts, how those contacts came into your funnel, and understand those things before shooting arrow in different directions. The odds that you’re going to hit anything that looks like a target are pretty slim. David: Exactly. And I think a lot of the reason for that is, many people think of the term targeting in terms of what you said, targeting’s like aiming at something. But it’s not just aiming at something, it’s having an idea in advance of what it is that you want to hit. And if we think in terms of some of the more common ways of targeting. Some people don’t even get this specific about it. But if you look at the different ways to target, I mean some people target geographically, I’m going to target everybody within a certain geographic area. If I’m a realtor and I’m working in a particular neighborhood… Great example of geographic targeting. Some people target by industry. If I’m selling B2B, I might target a particular group of people in a particular industry. I might target companies that deal with technical kind of things, or I might target education, or I might target finance, right? So that’s a different way to target, by industry. I can target by need if I’m selling something like whatever, insurance, and I’m targeting people who need insurance. Okay. They could be wherever they are. Now, it’s harder to do that when you target by need because so many people might need it and you might have to pare things down a little bit to be able to get to the people that you want. In the promotional products industry, where I do a lot of work, people can sell by program specialty. In other words, people who are looking for a specific result. If you’re selling to people who are looking to increase safety in the workplace, then you could potentially be selling them a safety campaign, a safety program. There are some people who target by product specialty. There are different companies who might be looking for a specific kind of product. There is a company that’s been in the promotional products industry for ages. You’ve probably received pens from them in the mail, and they’ve been doing that for years. There’s a cover letter. Very often the pen will have your company name on it, and they’ll send that to you in advance. And then there was just a sheet of paper and a place where you could say, all right, if I want 200 of these, I send a check, I mail it in. And that was an example of targeting by product. So you can have a very successful business that does just that, right? Targeting by a particular product. And then some combination thereof. I could target a particular niche, a particular group of people. I could target financial institutions within a certain geographic area, or I could target a certain type of industry with a specific need. So, industrial companies that need safety programs. So lots of different ways to slice it, but if you don’t think through your options, then

Pursuing unqualified prospects is a waste of time. Lately, I’ve also been on a bit of a kick in terms of commitment versus interest. If you’re interested in the possibility of working with us, that’s very different than if you’re committed to getting the results you want in your business and working with us to do it. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today’s episode, co-host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing the pursuit of unqualified prospects. Welcome, Jay! Jay: Hey, it’s so great to be here again, David, and I always love the topics that we get into. I think usually, or mostly, especially in my case, I’m in pursuit of just any prospect and I don’t give a lot of thought to are they qualified, are they not? It’s like, just send me all the leads and all sort through it, and I’m sure that I’m wasting a lot of time doing that. David: It’s funny, isn’t it? It’s like just looking for warm bodies. Anybody who can fog a mirror, right? And to some extent, that’s part of every process. Because we really don’t know who’s qualified and who’s not until and unless we have a qualification procedure in place to figure that out, or if we just sort of get good at it from having conversations and hearing what people say. So I think you’re right. I think no one really sets out to pursue unqualified prospects, and yet, to some extent, we all do it every day. Jay: Yeah, exactly. I will tell you that as a company, we’ve done some things. when we first started using Google ads, it was crazy. I mean, we were getting so many responses. And then after taking all of these leads and calls, we realized that 90% of them were not good. Because, our key words that we were using for Google were bringing us the wrong type of client that we couldn’t help and that we couldn’t close. So once we just did something as simple as figure out our keywords, wow, that saved us a lot of time and money. David: It really helps to dial it in, doesn’t it? When you’re more specific and it, you’re right. It could be the difference of one additional parameter, one additional thing that you’re saying in the messaging that you’re putting out there. Because all of that’s going to contribute to the type of people who respond to your ads when we’re talking about leading with advertising. Jay: Yeah, exactly. The other thing we found is a seasonality to it, and you and I have talked about seasonality a lot when it comes to sales. But we’ve found that the same keywords don’t work the same all year long, that there’s different motivations that things change. And so, we’re kind of starting to keep track of that now for the first time, and I’m excited. You know, we probably won’t reap the benefits of that until next year, but that’s how far ahead we have to be, to know when and how to start pivoting and adjusting. David: Yeah, I can see exactly how that could be the case. And it’s something that you discover through doing it, right? Through iterations. You try different things and you say, Hey, this isn’t working. This used to work. What’s the reason for that? So a lot of it too is sometimes talking to people. One of the things that we’ve done for a long time is when people make a decision not to work with us, or sometimes, if someone expresses interest in working with us, but then doesn’t follow through, we’ll reach out to those people and find out. “Hey, it looks like you were thinking about contacting us. Looks like you were maybe thinking about scheduling a strategy session with us. You didn’t do it. What was it that held you back? And the answers you get from that can be extremely helpful in terms of finding out what might also be holding other people back. Jay: Yeah. That is so powerful and I think sometimes people are afraid, because they’ve turned you down and they’re afraid that if you make another phone call you’re going to be bothersome to them. But if you do it in the right approach, or it can even be done in a form, a survey after the fact. You know, some way to kind of gather and harness that information. Something really obvious might rise to the top and you’re like going, “oh my goodness, why didn’t we think about that? It should have been so easy for us to see,” but we get that tunnel vision so often. David: Yeah, and everything’s obvious in hindsight, right? Once we figured it out, I was like, “oh, of course. How did I not know that?” You know, one of the things, too, that I think about unqualified prospects is that they’re everywhere. Right? They are everywhere. And I know one of the early mistakes that I made in my business was assuming that everybody was going to be qualified until they proved otherwise. And tha

When we think in terms of what makes us different from our competitors, a lot of it should be addressing who is our ideal target market? And it’s largely going to consist of people who want to do business the way that we do business, and then matching up our style of business with the way that they want to do it. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today’s episode, co-host Jay McFarland and I will ask the question, what makes you different? Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Thank you for asking me to be with you again. David. I love this question because if we don’t know what makes us different, I think it becomes harder to sell or to present yourself or anything else, knowing your strengths and weaknesses, and playing to your strengths. Well, that’s obviously something that we should be doing, but I’ve met a lot of people that don’t have a self-awareness. They wouldn’t be able to answer this question, and so they don’t really know where to focus and they’re kind of haphazard. David: Yeah. In the promotional products industry in particular, people struggle with this because you have all these distributors who are essentially representing very similar lines of product or the same lines of product from the same manufacturers. So a lot of people look at that and they say, well, how can I be different if I’m selling exactly the same products as all the other people that I’m competing with? And if you ask that question in a rhetorical sense, well, how can I possibly do it? You’re doing it wrong. You need to actually ask yourself that question in a way where you demand results of yourself and sit down. Bullet point it out. What is it that makes me different? What could make me different? What can make me different? A lot of times when I ask the question in live seminars and I say, what is it that differentiates you from your competition? And sometimes people will shout things out and sometimes somebody will say service, right? And I’ll say, who here feels their service differentiates them and sets them apart, and 40% of the hands in the room go up? And I say, okay, keep ’em up and look around. You know, can you all be right? Can your service differentiate you from the other people who have their hands in the air? And it’s kind of a rhetorical question, but the answer kind of has to be yes. It has to be yes. I have to be able to differentiate myself in a way that justifies my existence in the market. And so I can be different. I can be different than you. We can both be great potentially in different areas. You know, if you think in terms of the Walmart approach, you know, their thing is cheapest price. Ideally, we don’t want to be that in our market, right? But there is probably something that we can do that will better serve the clients that we’re looking for than what other people in our market are doing. Jay: Yeah, it’s such an important question if we’re all selling the same product. Then what’s going to make somebody choose me over somebody else? And we talked about it in the last podcast. Relationships can be a, a certain part of that, but our systems are turnaround. You know, there’s so many things we can look at internally to say that we live up to that. I think the other hard part, and maybe it’s an important part, is to figure out how to assess what your competitors are doing. If you’re losing sales to your competitors, can you try and assess what they’re doing that is making them win and you not? David: Yeah, and for a lot of people, the difference between an online business and an offline. Is like night and day. Very often there are offline businesses that are trying to compete with online businesses, which have a completely different set of rules and a completely different set of benefits. So very often, rather than saying, how can I compete with this website or whatever, it’s often better to say, how can I be competitive among the people who aren’t really interested in buying from a website, the people who are actually interested in buying from a human? If I’m selling as a human, right? If I’m selling through a website, then I have to ask the opposite question. But there’s always something that we could and should be doing that will differentiate us from our competitors, and that’s what we need to find out. Dan Kennedy, the marketing legend, I remember he said in a seminar one time, the question that we really need to ask ourselves: Why should I do business with you versus any and every other option available to me, including doing nothing? And I was like, wow. Mind blown. Right? But I’ve considered that question so many times over the years. And the last part of it, “including doing nothing” is huge. Because the biggest thing that people tend to do when they’re not buying is they’re deferring. Th

Building and strengthening client relationships is critical. Some people feel like they can get more attention from a salesperson calling than they get at home because maybe they feel like this person’s listening, paying attention and then asking about it. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today’s episode, co-host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing strengthening client relationships. Welcome back. Jay: Hey, David, once again. It’s great to be here and I think that this is another really, really important topic. The key word for me is relationships. I think that oftentimes you see people with a business model who want to “turn ’em and burn ’em,” so to speak, and they don’t think about that word, relationships and how important it is. David: Yeah. And very often, even if they don’t intend to do it, the tendency among many salespeople is to get in there, make the sale, move on, get to the next one, get to the next one, get to the next one. And when it happens this way, it’s very difficult to really maximize the value of those relationships in terms of dollars, but also just in terms of the relationship itself. When you do that, when you just get in there, you sell something and then you move on to the next one, you’re not really building and nurturing a relationship, which is critical if you don’t want to have to constantly replace the clients that you’re losing because you’re not maintaining those relationships in the first place. Jay: Yeah, absolutely. And the other thing is that there is for most companies a customer acquisition cost. And so if you’ve already paid that cost to get that customer, well, that goes away if you can build a relationship and they continue to use you. That to me is just such an important approach. If you’re just doing it one at a time, you’re going to pay that cost every single time, and it’s going to lower your profit margins. David: I completely agree, and people talk about that sort of thing all the time. We all know that it costs a whole lot less to resell an existing customer than it does to find and sell a new customer. We all know it intellectually, but it is rarely practiced as well as it could be and should be within most businesses. You know, an analogy that helped me a lot was when I realized that when we’re building a client base, it’s a little like building a brick wall. You know, you get that first brick in place and then you get the next brick in place and the next brick in place, right? So your first year in business, you’ve got this sort of layer of bricks. These are each of the initial customers that you brought in. And then, your second year in business, if you’re able to maintain all the customers you brought in the first time, then you can add on, you can layer in another layer of bricks, another layer of customers, and then your third year you can build in a third level and you can continue to grow it like that. And eventually you’ve got this great monolith of exceptional clients who continue to pay you money on an ongoing basis. But the problem is that we are not able to retain those customers. You get a crack in that, one of the bricks disappears from the first level, then your second year in business, you’re starting out by plugging the holes. You have to replace those missing customers. And so everything takes a lot longer. You’re essentially reconstructing your customer base, and a lot of it is unnecessary if we would just focus on strengthening and maintaining those client relationships. Jay: Yeah, and there’s several ways to do that, right? Phone calls, emails, drip campaigns from your customer management system. There’s a lot of ways to do that. But I got to tell you, you know, as somebody who’s on the phone all day long doing sales, when I already know that person and they know me, it’s just easier all the way around. I mean, it just feels so good when I call ’em and they’re like, “Hey Jay, how’s it going?” Instead of, “what do you want?” You know, “I don’t have time for you.” It doesn’t just affect your sales, I think it affects your peace of mind, right? To work with customers who know you and like you, and know you provide a good service. That’s just a great feeling and it really helps motivate you, I think, to move forward. David: Yeah, and so much of it is a mentality issue. If we go into that call with the idea of “I want to sell this person something.” With every single call, then that’s not going to build and strengthen the relationship. Sometimes those calls are just designed to find out how they’re doing, what they need, what they’re struggling with, how the last thing that we sold them worked out for them, what’s working for them, what’s not work

To earn what you’re worth, you need to find and eliminate the bottlenecks. Consider this: When you’re outproducing what you are earning, that creates friction. It creates a bit of tension. And in most well-run organizations, the organization says, “this person needs to be compensated more.” And if that’s not happening in the organization you’re with, if you are outproducing what you’re earning, it means that there are plenty of opportunities for you somewhere else that will actually recognize and appreciate that value and reward you accordingly. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today’s episode, co-host Jay McFarland and I will be asking the question, are you earning what you’re worth? Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey, David, it’s great to be with you again. And as I was thinking about this question, I realize I’m not sure I know what I’m worth. I know some people that say, you know, my time is worth this much money, and if I’m not making it, then I’ve got to change something or do something. I’m not there yet. I’m just not. David: Yeah. I think you’re not alone. I think there are a lot of people who struggle with this, and the real challenge comes in the last half of the question, you know what you’re worth because can’t answer the question until you determine that part of it. Are you earning it? Well, I don’t know. I have to know what I’m worth. Or I have to decide what I’m worth, choose what I’m worth. Choose what I think I’m worth. I think, and I’ve said this to a number of people over the years, the reason that I ended up getting into business myself is that I couldn’t find anybody else who would be willing to pay me what I thought I was worth. Right? , you work in different jobs and you say, okay, well I feel like I’m worth more than this. Well, when you start your own business, you’re earning what you’re worth because if you’re not producing anything, you’re not earning anything. And if you start earning stuff, then whatever you’re producing justifies it. And so essentially you’re earning what you’re worth. But still, even with all that, a lot of times, those of us in sales or those of us who own businesses, may feel like the work that we’re doing is costing us too much in terms of time and energy and effort and not producing what we’re looking for in terms of financial results, which is the reason I ask the question. Jay: Yeah. I think it is so important that there’s other ways to be paid for your worth. You know, if you’re in a place where you get job recognition, where they listen to your ideas, where you can climb up the ladder, for a lot of people that’s worth more than the bottom line paycheck. Now, if they’re not getting enough to pay their bills, then obviously cash is king. But all of the surveys I’ve seen say that people would really take less money if they felt like they could get rewarded in other ways. Now, when you’re working for yourself, that equation changes completely. David: Yeah. And I mean, a lot of times people start their own business. They do their own thing because they figure it’s going to give them all sorts of time freedom and things that they don’t have in a regular job. And very often they find out it’s exactly the opposite. I think it was Michael Gerber, the author of the EMyth who talked about the fact that there are a lot of people who work for other companies and they say to themselves, “okay, this guy’s a jerk. I’m going to start my own business.” And they stop working for a jerk and they start working for a maniac… themselves. And when I heard that line I’m like, “that is so true.” So often we will do things in our own businesses that we would probably never do for another employer in terms of the amount of hours that we’ll put in, the amount of thought that we put in, and all that sort of thing. Now, there are employees who do that. There are employees who are really focused on that and who really give their all to a job. But when you are an entrepreneur, particularly if you’re a solo entrepreneur, when you’re kind of doing your own thing, you’re the business. And so the things that you do have to count, they have to matter. And the actions we take have to generate. enough of a result that we’re able to get the kind of money that we need to make just to maintain the business, let alone earn a good living. Jay: Yeah. And don’t you think we kind of romanticize what it is to be an entrepreneur, to be a small business person? You know, we picture all the good. , you know, all the freedom that we’re going to have and everything else. And sometimes what we did is we gave ourself twice the work and half the pay. An

Very often, inferior competitors play the price card: Jay: I get that question. “Well, I talk to your competitor and they’re less expensive than you are.” Well, now I have to find a way to let them know, yeah, we are more expensive, but there’s a reason. And it’s because we’re very good at what we do and we have certain guarantees that they don’t, or whatever it is. David: Yeah. A pack of cigarettes is cheaper too, but that can also kill you. No, that would not be a good answer. But sometimes it’s what we feel like saying… David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today’s episode, co-host, Jay McFarland and I will be discussing the idea of losing business to inferior competitors. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: It’s good to be here, David, and this is one of the most frustrating things for me when I know that I have a better product, I have better customer service. I know this because I’ve heard complaints about my competitor and all of these things, but you lose it to them for whatever reason. Well, that can really ruin your day , and it can also affect your business. David: It really can. And I think just this idea and even the word inferior competitors, probably anyone in business who has competitors that you’ve run into has had this experience. And you’re like, I can’t believe they went with that person instead of us. You know that what you have is so much better and offers so much more and is going to transform the person in positive ways so much more than they will if they go the other way. And yet they go in that direction. It can be extremely frustrating. So when we think about this idea of how to avoid this, how to avoid losing business to inferior competitors, there are a number of different things that we can do. But I think it starts with recognizing, first of all, that they’re out there. That there are a number of people out there who are not as good as we are. And then it’s about, okay, how am I going to be able to communicate that to my prospects in a way that doesn’t make me sound like I’m bitter, or make me sound like I’m frustrated? And that can be the challenge sometimes. Jay: Yeah, I agree. I have people regularly ask me, what’s the difference between you and your competitor? And I find that you have to be very careful with this question. And the tactic that I’ve chosen is to say, here’s the value that we can bring you. Here’s what I know we can do. And I try and s teer it back or say, you know, I haven’t worked with them directly, but let me tell you this is where we shine. And I know we’re going to bring you success in this way because it’s always been weird to me that somebody would believe what I say about my competitor. I’m the worst person to ask. It’s like in politics when somebody runs an attack ad, why would you believe the guy who’s, you know what I mean? It ‘s the worst person to ask, but we put so much faith and trust in it. David: Right. And I think, going exactly along that line, one of the things that we’ve tried to do when people come to us and they ask us about it, is we’ll basically say to them, well, listen, anything I say is obviously going to be biased. Why don’t I fill you in on some of what our customers have said about that topic? And then we’ve got videos and we’ve got audios, and we’ve got written testimonials of customers who have worked with us and we’ll point them to that. And allow them to hear what other people just like them are saying about the products and services we offer. Sometimes there are situations where a customer will talk about a bad experience they had with one of our competitors and the reason they came to us, and so sometimes we’ll share those stories as well. Say, well, listen, I can’t tell you this personally. I’ve never personally dealt with this other company. But you know, we’ve had a number of customers who were dealing with them in the past, and here are the reasons they gave for switching over to us. They said that they found that we do this better and this better and this better. I don’t know if you’ve ever had any experience with that company, but if you have, you might have noticed those things as well. But either way, I can tell you that these are the things where we’re going to be very likely to provide you with better service in those areas. Jay: Yeah, that’s great. And I don’t want to skip over what you said about having customer reviews and testimonials available. That’s got to be an important part of your sales process because, you know, I have people ask me all the time, well, can I talk to somebody who’s worked with you? And in my particular line of work, my customers don’t want to receive calls every day to give references to people. B

When we’re doing business-to-business or business-to-consumer outbound calls, those fears can be founded. Call reluctance can seem very real. They might very well say no. They might be rude, obnoxious, belligerent. They might say all kinds of things that you don’t want to hear. So that’s all true. That could happen. One of the things that helped me a lot though, is recognizing that we are not doing it for them. We are not doing this for the people who react like that. We are doing it for the people that we are ultimately going to help. And we can’t get to the people that we are going to ultimately help without having to go through some of these people sometimes in between. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today’s episode, co-host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing the topic, Is Call Reluctance Real? Jay: Listen, it’s a pleasure to be here, David, and let me tell you, this is one of my biggest issues. I know it’s real because I have a job where I spend a lot of time on the phone and man, there are days where I just do not want to do it. And what’s funny is it’s actually something that I enjoy, but it requires a certain level of energy. It requires that you are prepared and there is the occasional call that turns in a direction that I don’t want to go. And so this is me to a T. I experience this on a regular weekly basis. David: Yeah, and the title is kind of provocative and I guess I sort of did that on purpose. Because anyone who has experienced this, that feeling of, “oh, I just don’t feel like picking up the phone,” is going to look at this and say, “well, yes, of course, it’s real.” And I think that when we just look at it as call reluctance, then it’s easy to say, yes, it’s real. What do we do about it? But the reason that I wanted to raise the topic is that I don’t believe that call reluctance is actually the issue. if you boil it down, what does it mean? And when I did this for myself and for other people who were struggling with it, it all really just boils down to fear, right? It’s some type of fear. It’s not that we’re really afraid of picking up the phone. That’s the easy part. It’s not that we’re afraid of dialing, that’s the easy part. It’s about what’s going to happen next. It’s about that unknown. And I think that’s what people struggle with, without even realizing that that’s what they’re struggling with. Jay: Yeah. So I mean, for me, fear of rejection, fear of the no, and I mentioned fear of the negative experience. You know, the guy who’s asking the questions that I can’t answer or wants to spend two hours on the phone and I only have 20 minutes for him or those kinds of things. You’re right, it’s all born out of fear. David: And what’s interesting, too, is that today, if you have to pick up the phone and call somebody and you don’t have an appointment with that person, the likelihood that they’re actually even going to answer, that you’re going to get to a live human being is probably what? 30%? 20%, right? 10%. I mean, most of them are going to go to voicemail. And so voicemails are kind of easy as long as you know what you’re going to say when you get a voicemail message. So a lot of it, I mean, at least 80% of it, it’s like, well, there shouldn’t be any fear here because they’re probably not going to answer. Right? But as you indicated, it’s the fear of rejection. In some cases, it’s the fear of success. And some people are like, “I’ve never had fear of success. I love success.” Well, we all love success, but sometimes getting to that success can be a little frightening. It can be a little bit of a struggle. And sometimes it’s just, hesitation is born out of fears that just haven’t even manifested yet. Jay: Yeah. They’re not real. And, for me, it’s asking the question, “what if?” And this is again, something that my parents taught me. I would tell them that I didn’t want to do something or I was afraid of doing something and they would say, “and then what?” Or “what if?” Right? Okay. Let’s say you do it and something happens, and then what? And they would play it out until the very end and eventually help me come to the conclusion that my fears are not rational and they are getting in my way. So I think recognizing, like you said, that it is a fear., and then having a way to process that fear in your mind can be so powerful. David: Right, and when we’re doing business calls, when you’re calling people who don’t know you’re going to be calling… if you’re doing a cold call, whether it’s B2B or B2C, it’s kind of the same because you’re reaching out to people who do

If you want to avoid feeling overwhelmed, it’s often just a good idea to take a moment and consider: What exactly is it that I’m struggling with at the moment? What are the specific things that make me feel overwhelmed? Then, what’s the one thing I really need to be doing right now and what’s the next step I can take toward making that happen? David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today’s episode, co-host Jay McFarland and I will be continuing our discussion on how to avoid feeling overwhelmed. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey, David. It’s good to be back and I’m really glad we’re following up on this topic because after we recorded the last podcast, we kind of sat around and continued the discussion and thought, we need to share this with everybody as well. Before we were talking about self-awareness. But it really occurs to me that who you surround yourself with, especially on those days when you’re feeling overwhelmed, that’s going to be really important. David: Absolutely. And as you said, we started talking about it after the last podcast and the conversation got so good, I’m like, “we need to hit record and just keep going on this topic.” Because you raised a great point, particularly related to who we’re surrounding ourselves with. And very often when we are in that negative state that we had talked about in the previous episode, where we bring the wrong “us” to work, or the wrong us shows up to work, you know, the unmotivated, unfocused version of ourselves show up. When we do that, we limit the kind of people that we’re even going to be able to interact with. Because most other motivated, focused people don’t really want to be around that version of us. And so the more we bring that version of ourselves to work, the less likely we are going to be to get in front of other people who are going to help pull us out of whatever it is that we are stuck into. Jay: Yeah, and I think the exception to that, and I’ve experienced this, is if you have people who know you well enough and you’ve built trust with them and they are able to tell you and point out, you know, is everything okay? Because you kind of feel like you’re off your game a little bit today. You know, if you surround yourself with yes men, then you’re not going to get that. And if you surround yourself with people who are negative all the time, then they’re going to be bringing you down even on the good days. So being able to assess your team and hire appropriately is so critical, and I don’t think people really think about it in those terms. David: I agree completely. I also think that when people tend to give into those emotions, when they give into the overwhelm and they just basically withdraw and say, “no, I can’t do it, I’m out.” At that point, what are they leaving to themselves? I mean, they’re really leaving the opposite. And there are people who will unintentionally feed into that. If you say, ” I’m just overwhelmed. I don’t feel like doing this.” They’ll say, “well, that’s okay,” you know, “Hey, you don’t have to do it.” And maybe that’s true, and if it’s something that’s not good for you, you definitely shouldn’t do it. But if it’s something that you were committed to, that you really wanted to be able to accomplish, and you’re having an off day and you make a decision like that, in a lot of cases, there’s no going back on that. Jay: Yeah, you’re exactly right. And so in that point you need somebody to say, “look, this is really important. We plan this out. You got this.” You know, this is really important because if we can close this sale, then it’s going to propel us forward. If you can surround yourself, at least have one person on your team like that, what a game changer. But I think when we’re interviewing people, we’re thinking more about will they be able to accomplish a specific task, more than we’re saying, will they fit into our culture and will they be somebody who brings me down or brings me up and helps move the whole team forward? David: Yeah, and even in our personal lives, there are times and there are people in our personal lives where we may not be able to share exactly what we’re going through or what we’re dealing with. I mean, there are people who, if you tell them about something that’s bothering you , they’re either going to then tell you about 10 other things that they’re dealing with that are a lot worse, or they’re going to tell you that why what you’re dealing with isn’t that bad. Or they’re going to tell you that because of what you’re suffering with, now it’s going to make it worse for them because now they’re going

To avoid feeling overwhelmed, consider which version of you is showing up. Some days we start out and the you that shows up is the focused, motivated, energized, action-taking you. And some days the you that shows up is the unfocused, unmotivated, lethargic, non-action-taking you. And when we recognize this in advance, we can do a couple of things. One is to say, okay, I don’t really like the me that showed up today. You know, can I get myself in gear? Can I take some sort of action? Can I get myself motivated? Or will I at least take the next step? Will I take one small step in the direction of accomplishing what I’ve told myself and others that I intend to do? David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today’s episode, co-host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing the topic of how to avoid getting overwhelmed. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey, David. It’s great to be here, and this is such an important topic, especially for the entrepreneur. There are so many different things going on, and you know, oftentimes you have to be the front office, the back office, you have to fulfill the orders. I mean, there are just so many things, and keeping track of it can be very difficult. David: It can. And before we even really dive in too much, I just want to point out, first of all, we are not experts in the mental health field at all, right? So if you’re struggling with actual mental health issues, this is not the podcast to listen to. But if you’re in sales or marketing or business ownership, or just dealing with the day-to-day and occasionally feeling overwhelmed, that’s what we’ll be talking about. If you’re feeling a little overwhelmed or stressed in business, that will be the discussion at hand today. And yeah, as you were saying, Jay, I mean, most of us have this situation at one point or another when you’re in business, particularly when you’re in sales, it’s easy to feel overwhelmed on some days. It’s like, oh, I don’t feel like making the calls, or I’m struggling with this, or I’m struggling with that. And just that thought alone can stop some people in their tracks and cause ’em to not move forward. Jay: Yeah. I think first of all, it’s important to tell people it’s okay to feel overwhelmed. I mean, that’s the reality for most people. But if that feeling becomes a stress paralysis, like I’ve experienced, like there are so many things going on. I don’t know which one I should be focusing on, so I end up doing less instead of more. That can really be damaging to your business. David: It absolutely is. And what I find is that in a lot of cases, the things that cause us to feel overwhelmed is when we focus on all the different things that we have to do or all the different things that have to be done. And the fact there are too many things coming at us at once. And it’s this habit of looking at everything as opposed to looking at the one thing or the next thing that I can do, which would actually allow us to move forward. And that I’m sure sounds very simplistic, and to some degree it is. But when we’re struggling with that, a lot of it really becomes about our focus. How tightly can we narrow our focus so that we can actually concentrate on doing just one thing? What’s the one, tiny, next thing I can do to move forward so I don’t just give up? Jay: Yeah, and a lot of people I think, sometimes want to give up. But I think it’s really important to do some work in advance here. If you don’t have a list or a plan that talks about all of those things that need to be done and maybe prioritize them. If you don’t have that done, then it’s going to be very hard, like you said, to say, what is the one thing I should be doing right now? Because you haven’t taken the time to plan ahead and even know, so, then it becomes “the squeaky wheel gets the grease,” right? And sometimes that squeaky wheel is just the last thing that you should be doing. David: Yeah, that is exactly true, and it happens to probably all of us at one point or another where there are a lot of things to do, and as you said, whatever’s making the most noise, whatever’s rattling our cage at the moment gets done when in actuality, that might be something that either shouldn’t be done at all, or it should be something that should be prioritized or deprioritized to move down farther on the list. I think it’s also important to understand that all of us have good days and bad days. And whenever we make life-altering decisions on bad days, it’s usually not a good outcome. So part of it also is just recognizing when we’re having the kind of days where we are feeling overwhelmed when we’re feeling like things are too much, and then maybe just sort of holding off on making big important decisions until we feel like we’r

When we think about how to handle indecisive prospects, we each have to recognize our own tolerance for pain. How long am I willing to chase? How long am I willing to wait? How much am I willing to sacrifice in terms of my own time and my own self-esteem? Right? And it’s different at different stages of life. I spent so much time in the past just trying to accommodate people who, ultimately, it wouldn’t have made sense to accommodate in the first place. And so for me, I’ve recognized that it’s not always a good idea to just do that. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today’s episode, co-host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing indecisive prospects. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey, David. Thank you so much. This is the bane of the existence of so many salespeople because you think you have somebody, they see the benefits, but they just can’t seem to make up their mind and you know that you can help them. You know that if they would just do this, they would be on their way to a better place, but you just can’t get ’em over that finish line. It’s so frustrating. David: Yeah, Jay, you know, I was really struggling to decide if we should do a podcast on this topic. It was weighing on me and I’m thinking, should we do it? Should we not do it? And I went back and forth and I spent eight months, and then I decided, yeah, maybe we’ll do it. No. That approach it’s brutal and we’ve all dealt with it. The term wishy-washy comes to mind where they just can’t or won’t make a decision and it’s frustrating. But it’s also kind of unnecessary because when you’re dealing with someone who really is just not able to make a decision, it’s almost a disqualifier for me. And it very often becomes a disqualifier for me. Because if we’ve laid out our best-case scenario for why it makes sense to move forward with something we’re doing or not to move forward with something that we’re doing. If we’ve done that and they’re still sort of going back and forth and they don’t know why or they can’t put their finger on it, then they’re probably not a good prospect. Because the problem with indecisive prospects is they go on to become indecisive clients, which means every time you want to sell something to them, they’re going to have to think about it or go away and meditate on it or whatever it is they’re going to have to do. Meanwhile, the clock is ticking for everybody. They’re not getting the result of whatever it is that they were thinking about buying from you. You’re spending a lot of time chasing them. They’re spending a lot of time either being chased or avoiding being chased or dodging you. So for me, it can become a disqualifier pretty quickly. Jay: Yeah, and I think you’ve actually kind of zeroed in on a larger recognition, and that is, are we thinking about what type of customer this is going to be while we’re talking about them initially? Because it may not just be that they’re indecisive. We may through the conversation find out this client is going to be very hard to work with because they have a bazillion questions, or they seem so demanding or whatever. I think that kind of pre-assessment in the process can be very important. I also think with indecisive people, you know, you have to have your steps. Have I gone through every step of the process? Have I tried every skillset that I have in the book, and they’re still waffling back and forth, then you’re exactly right. Is this somebody that I want to be working with on a daily basis? Is it worth my time? And I think the answer is probably no. David: Yeah. And when you listen to what people tell you, if you’re having some sort of interaction with someone who’s considering working with you and you’re actually paying attention to what they say, and their story changes dramatically from day to day. That to me is a huge red flag. I had a situation recently where someone was talking about how determined they were to grow their business. They wanted to get it to a certain point as quickly as possible, and the reasons that they were doing it were all very noble. They wanted to do it for their family and they wanted to reach this particular level of sales, and they wanted to do it sooner rather than later. And then two days later they decided they weren’t going to do it because they needed to do something with their house first. They needed to, you know, fix up their house before they could focus on this. And it’s like, okay, well that’s perfectly fine. Right? Everybody gets to choose their own priorities. And the person said, Hey, I’m not saying we’re not going to work together. I’m just saying that, you know, not right now. And my response was, well, you know, listen, as of the other day, your focus was on g

When prospects don’t respond, think in terms of what gets your attention, what gets you to respond? What makes you want to respond when someone else is reaching out to you? That can also be a great indicator of what you may want to be saying to the other person to try to get a response from them. Now, they might not respond to exactly the same things that you respond to. But it’s possible they will, and it’s not a bad place to start. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today’s episode, co-host Jay McFarlane and I will be discussing why people don’t respond. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey, thank you so much David. This is something that frustrates me in the process when I’ve made a good faith effort, I’m expecting a response and I get crickets and it, you know, it’s one of the hardest things to deal with in sales because you got to constantly be remotivation yourself and when you’re not getting a response back, it’s hard to stay motivated. David: It is. And it’s hard to not take it personally sometimes. Even though it’s very rarely personal. It’s hardly ever personal. It’s almost never personal, but it’s still hard to get past that when it’s happening. Jay: Yeah, I I totally agree with you. And again, I think you just kind of have to have that framework that you know it’s going to happen. It’s not personal and you just got to get through those. But I also think that you have to ask yourself some questions and reassess what is our communication system? I’ve found that there are people who will respond via text, but they’re never going to respond via email or they will pick up their phone or they’ll never pick up their phone. So you’re kind of learning, and I keep track of these notes as I’m trying to reach out to people. And if I can get somebody via text, that’s the way I’m going. I just will stop sending that person emails. So, I think learning along the way about each person and their preferred mode of contact is very important. David: Yeah, that is a huge one. such a great point. And I know we’ve talked about this in previous podcasts. We normally talk about it in terms of marketing and sales, but it applies just as much to telephone calls because they’re marketing, they’re sales as well. But we’ve talked in the past about the MVPs of Marketing. What is the marketing message we want to communicate? Which combination of marketing vehicles are we going to use to communicate the message? And who are the people or prospects that we need to reach? And when people are not responding? Well, the P part of it is covered. The people that we’re talking to, the person who’s not responding, that’s the person that we’re talking about. So if they’re not responding, it is either the person themselves, they’re just not going to do it. But if they are still potentially going to be engaged with us, then the reason they’re not responding is usually either the message or the vehicle, like you pointed out. They’re not going to respond to an email, but they very likely will respond to a text. Cool. That’s easy. Okay. Now we’ll communicate via text. They won’t pick up the phone, they won’t return voicemails, but they will respond to text. Great. Once you get something like that nailed down, you’re back in the saddle again. as the old song went. But a lot of times people don’t even think of that because your preferred method of communication might be different than mine. And if mine is to pick up the phone and call you again and again and again and again, which it is not. But if it were, and if your method of communication is text, then you’re not going to respond to me. You’re probably going to get annoyed at what I’m doing and I’m going to be annoyed at the fact that you’re not responding to me. And it’s a simple disconnect that can actually be addressed very quickly. But if somebody is not responding to any of the different methods of communication that you’ve tried, and today there are a lot. If they don’t respond to you on the phone, you can send them a text, you can send them an email, you can message them on social media. You can send them something in the mail. There are lots of different things that you can do. If they’re not responding to any of it, then it’s very likely either the message that you’re communicating to them where they just want to have nothing to do with you, they don’t want to communicate with you at all, or it’s the person themselves, they’re just not going to do it. And for me, it’s very helpful to try to break those things down and when people don’t respond, it’s very discourteous in my opinion. That’s a nice word that I’m using the

I’ve seen situations like that where people are making excuses instead of sales. Somebody had planned to sell something and was talking about it for a long time, and all the dominoes had to be lined up just right before they’d flick it, you know, flick one of them and get it going. And ultimately nothing happened. Sometimes we have a great idea, but then it’s like, “oh, it seems like too much work” or “I don’t want to do it,” or “I’m scared,” or whatever the deal is. And unfortunately, you’re building bridges to nowhere when you do that. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today’s episode co-host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing making excuses instead of sales. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Thank you so much, David. Such a pleasure to be here. And I’m excited about this topic. And I’m just going to be brutally honest upfront. I’m guilty of this very thing. As I’ve been involved in sales and sometimes numbers would drop, and the first thing I’m saying is, “well, it’s this,” or, “well, it’s that.” And the truth is it, might be. And so I think it’s important to always go back and reassess what you are doing and have you changed something or has something changed in your system? David: Yeah, it’s very easy to do. It’s an easy trap to fall into. Because whoever really wants to say ” it’s my fault?” And yet, our behavior is one of the only things that we really, truly have control over to the extent that we can get control over it, right? We can’t control a lot of outside factors, but we can largely control what we do and what we promise to do, and then try to connect the dots between those two things. Jay: Yeah. I remember I was in a training and they pointed out that so often when a mistake happens or say sales have a problem, we’re looking for the person to blame. And so often it’s not a person, it’s a system. It’s something that needs to be tweaked. But it’s so easy to just pick somebody and say, you know, “you’re the problem, you solve it.” Maybe you’re the frontline salesperson, and so you need to fix it or there are going to be consequences. And oftentimes I think that’s the wrong approach. David: Yeah, I agree. And I think the reason that this topic even came up is I had an experience, fairly recently, where I was just sort of blindsided by someone’s ability to blame every single outside factor rather than just the fact that they essentially weren’t selling. And this is common in a lot of different businesses. It’s common in a lot of different sales industries. A lot of times, “well, it’s the leads.” And if you ever saw Glengarry Glen Ross, “it’s the leads.” And I remember when I was first watching that movie, I was like, oh, that’s brutal. You know, it’s probably not the leads. And then you find out, in that particular movie, yeah, it was the leads, because they were giving them bad leads. That’s really the exception, rather than the rule though. It’s the leads, it’s the market, it’s the product, it’s the supply chain. There have been a lot of really, potentially very good excuses, a lot of different things that people can blame for their lack of producing, but none of that empowers the salesperson. None of it empowers the person who is making those excuses to actually address the issues that potentially need to be addressed. In other words, if there’s a problem with the leads, what can that person do to track down better leads? If it’s the market, are there other markets they can approach? Or are there segments of the market that they could and should be approaching? If it’s the product, are they representing the right product? Is there another product they should be selling? So for every excuse, there is normally something that the salesperson can do to address some aspect of the problem that they’re citing as being the real issue. Jay: Yeah, I think it’s so important what you’re talking about. Because I’ve been in a situation recently where we did a Google ad campaign and man, the leads were just coming in. But then we looked at our close rate, and it was just miserable. And so we had to assess, is this the type of lead we want? Because we’re spinning our wheels here. And so we had to change keywords and go through a lot of thought processes and reassess. Because in that case, it was the leads. But I also think it’s important, especially in sales, to constantly be reassessing your own performance and what you’re going through. because we fall into traps, right? And also it’s hard, the grind can be hard. And so things that you know you should be doing, you’re not this time because it’

To grow your client base proactively, you have to do more than just post stuff. It’s about initiating conversations. And if you think of your social media content as your first contact, and you recognize that the goal of the first contact is to initiate a second contact (which means to get a response,) then your likelihood of success is going to be greatly increased. David: . Hi, and welcome to the podcast. Today, co-host Jay McFarland, and I will be discussing the topic of growing your client base proactively. Welcome, Jay. Jay: Hey, thank you for having me on. I’m super excited about today’s topic. David: Yeah, it’s great to have you here. Jay: Yeah, I, I know this is a big question for businesses. I’ve heard the phrase, if you’re not growing, you’re dying. And so growth is a constant thing that you have to be thinking about. How do you do that proactively? David: It’s a great question because so often we get caught up in the day-to-day of what’s going on. Particularly in the early stages of a business, when you don’t have as much business as you need, it can be really scary. And what a lot of people tend to do is they just sort of default to whatever it is that they think is going to bring in business. And they lose sight of the fact that if they aren’t proactive about it, you can really fall into bad patterns that can create problems and perpetuate a cycle where you’re not generating the revenue that you need to grow and scale. Jay: Yeah. This is such important information because I think most people don’t start a business because they know how to grow a business. They start a business because I have a great recipe and I’m going to put it in a food truck. Or I’m an attorney even, and I’ve learned the law or a dentist or a doctor. Those people are not trained or taught how to grow their business. They’re taught how to do their craft. So this is outside of anything they’ve been taught. David: It’s really funny because there was an electrician here earlier today at our house and he was taking care of some things and we were having exactly this conversation because he used to work for another electrical firm. He decided to start his own business and we started talking about what they don’t teach you in electrical school, essentially, right? I know how to do electrical work, but do I know how to find customers? Do I know how to find the right customers? Do I know how to handle the billing and do collections and hire and fire, and do all the other things that become necessary when you have a business? It’s a whole different set of skills. But you’re right. And from the standpoint of our topic today, in terms of growing proactively, a lot of business owners really don’t know how to go about that. They don’t know how to do it, which is the reason we’re having this conversation today. Jay: Yeah. And it can be so daunting. So where, where do you start? I mean, you know so many ideas. You know, you got social media, you’ve got all of these different tools available to you. Where do you begin? . David: Well, I think for a lot of people, if you want to take a strategic approach, you want to think in terms of the types of clients you actually want to have, the types of customers that you enjoy interacting with. By and large, these are going to be people who are pleasant to deal with. They’re people who have money and aren’t afraid to spend it. They’re people who appreciate the value you bring to the table. And a lot of times we don’t even think of that. Particularly in the early stages, if somebody is willing to pay us for what we do, we’re like, “okay, great. I’ll take it.” I think that can really be a mistake, because it can lead us to establishing the type of client base that we might not actually want to interact with on an ongoing basis. So when I think in terms of building a client base proactively, to me that means deciding in advance what types of clients do I want, what types of clients do I not want, and then really going about putting together the processes and strategies that are necessary to attract exactly that type of customer. Jay: Yeah, I love that. So, defining who your customer is. And how do you do that? I’m guessing some brainstorming, taking a look at your current clientele, the customers that you really like working with compared to the ones that you really don’t like working with. Is that kind of the process? David: Yeah. When you’ve got the benefit of having a customer base and you know which customers you like and which ones you don’t, and which ones are great to deal with and which ones aren’t, then it does become a lot easier to do that. To say, okay, well I’ve found that if I’m selling business to business, for example, people in this particular i

If you think in terms of seasonality and counter-seasonal selling, does your business have a normal seasonality? Something that you know and can plan for? It’s important to look at that. Look at your history. See if there are peaks and cycles that you might not even be aware of. If it’s random, if it seems to go in peaks and cycles, try to figure out why that might be the case. If you look at certain types of clients that do business with you in certain times of year, that might be a good clue in terms of what kind of counter-seasonal business you might want to look at. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today’s episode, co-host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing counter-seasonal selling. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Thank you so much, David. You can have those booming months and then all of a sudden the bottom drops out and are you ready for it? Do you have a plan? And can you even survive it? And I think this is where a lot of companies fall down. And they don’t survive it. Because they’re not ready for the ebb and flow that comes with most businesses. David: Yeah. And you just raised a great point, which is the fact that there are some businesses where you just don’t even know what that seasonality is likely to be. It just sort of comes and goes in waves, like nausea. You know, you’re just not quite sure if it’s going to be a good month, is it going to be a bad month? And there are a lot of businesses that are like that. Because if you are not structuring your business to be able to proactively attract the prospects and clients you need, it’s bound to be feast and famine. And it’s hard to even think in terms of counter-seasonal if you don’t even know what your seasonal business is, right? If it’s just sort of random and it’s up and down and all over the place and you don’t know what’s causing it? As crazy as it sounds, there are a lot of businesses that are in exactly that situation. They get people who come in in a particular week or a particular month, “wow, we had a great month,” and the next month they don’t. And if they’re not doing something proactive to ensure that that happens, that is very likely to continue to happen. Jay: Yeah, it’s exactly right. And it’s really hard, especially in your first couple of years, you know, some you can track. Like, I had a restaurant in a college town and we knew that, at the end of the college semester, we were going to be empty and we had to figure out how to survive that. But we could track that and we knew. But a lot of other companies, you may not know. It could be based on the stock market, it could be economically driven. There may not be any rhyme or reason for it. And so having plans and systems to watch for it, to pivot, we’ve talked a lot about pivoting in these podcasts. Having a pivot planned is so important. David: Yeah. It could be a pandemic, right? We’ve all gone through that. Like who saw that coming, right? And that did a lot of businesses in, some because they were literally shut. They were forced to close down. Some of them were able to make it through, or they were able to pivot and get things done, and others just went out of business. But in terms of this topic, I was originally thinking of it in terms of the situation you described where if you’ve got a seasonal restaurant and you know that the students aren’t going to be there, and as a result, you’re going to have some lean months over the summer, it’s easier to plan for that. I was also thinking of it in terms of how, in my promotional products business, we did a lot of work with public television stations and they would have pledge drives three times a year. They would have a pretty large one in January, they would have a really large one in March, and then they would have another one that wasn’t quite as big in August. So during those times of year, we knew that we were going to have a bunch of business coming in over a certain period of time. And we also knew that when that wasn’t going on, we were going to have to figure something out. We were going to have to supplement. And that was the first time that I really even thought in terms of counter-seasonal business. Because each business has its own seasons. It has its own cycles. And if you don’t take the time to consider that or think about it, you might not even realize it. It’s like, “oh wow, we’re just having some slow months.” But in terms of being able to make that happen, it reminds me of an old Zig Ziegler quote where he said, “don’t look for your ship to come in if you haven’t sent one out.” And I thought that is just brilliant. It’s a very old reference, it’s a dated reference, but wow, it’s still is every bit as relevant. If you’re not doing something to create demand

When we talk about selling beyond features and benefits, we did sort of discuss the idea of trying to elicit some emotions from people. try to find out what they really want. Then we can start to focus more on emotions and experiences. What is the emotion you want to have them feel when they are taking advantage of this purchase? What is the experience you want them to have after they’ve purchased it? David: Hi and welcome to the podcast. In today’s episode, co-host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing the idea of selling beyond features and benefits. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Thank you so much, David. This is an important topic for me because I feel like so often if we just convince them that the features are perfect for them or the benefits are perfect for them, then we’ll get the sale. When as so often, what we’ve talked about, it’s more about relationships than it is features and benefits. David: Yeah, and we did touch on this topic a couple of weeks ago in the podcast, and I thought it was worth it to sort of revisit it, expand it a little more, because it’s the type of thing that people sort of basically know, basically understand, but maybe haven’t really implemented. So I’m hoping we can flesh this out a little better for people. And if you’ve got questions about anything we talk about, that’s one of the reasons I love these discussions is you think of things that I would never have thought of and hopefully vice versa. And we’re able to come up with strategies that are going to be helpful to people. So in a previous podcast we had discussed when we’re looking to get beyond the idea of features and benefits, how so many salespeople have been trained on this over so many years or even so many decades. That’s kind of all they know. And if you recognize that there is a world, there is a life beyond features and benefits, it really opens things up for you. It opens up your mind. It opens up your conversations, your dialogue, your interactions with prospects and clients. It just gives you a lot more that you can work with that can actually help to elicit a response from them. Find out what they’re looking to do, get down to their actual core emotions in addition to just what’s coming off the top of their head. Jay: Yeah, I think I told you it’s probably been almost a year since we talked about it, but I went to a week-long sales training. These were like the premier sales trainers in the country. And they told us the whole week that we were selling light bulbs. And that was all we could sell. We could never rely on our knowledge of the real product that we sold. That way we would have to focus on the skillset behind selling and building relationships. And what was so funny is that people would start making up features and benefits of these imaginary light bulbs, because they had to have something like that. Because that’s all they knew was selling features and benefits. And the whole week they’re trying to teach you No, no, no. Build relationships. Like you said, there’s an emotional component here. There’s so much more than features and benefits. And I came away with an incredible understanding. I think some people came away just knowing how to sell light bulbs, to be honest with you. David: Right! Yeah. So then they all had to go into business selling light bulbs. It didn’t help me sell anything else, but help me sell light bulbs. It really is kind of funny, the way our minds work sometimes. Because if you’re in the product zone, if you’re just thinking in terms of the actual physical product that you’re selling, it’s one dimension. But it’s not always the most important dimension. Because there’s that old expression that people don’t want to buy a drill bit, right? You remember that one? They say nobody wants to buy a drill bit. What do they really want? Do they want a drill bit? No, they want a hole in the wall, right? So there’s a lot of talk about that. But even that is sort of features and benefits, right? The feature is, it’s sturdy and it won’t break when you use it. The benefit is you can put a hole in the wall. That’s presumably what they want is the hole in the wall. But a lot of times it stops there. And people forget that if you really take it a step further, people don’t want a hole in the wall. Right? Hey, look at that hole in my wall. There’s something they want to put up there. There’s something that they’re looking to do. It’s either part of a construction project that’s going to result in something better than just a hole in the wall. And so if you limit yourself to the immediate feature and the immediate benefit, you’re missing out on the ability to paint a picture of whatever the thing is that they’re buying is ultimately going to create for the pe

To maximize trade show revenue, switch the mindset from, “I’m here to meet people and give away stuff” to “I’m here to collect leads.” This changes the entire dynamic. When she did that, she came back from the trade show, we were having a conversation and she said, “I’ve never had a show like that. I got so many leads. I have all these people I’m going to be following up with. You know, we had great conversations.” And all it is, is a shift in the dynamic, a shift in the strategy and the overall approach. Going from “I’m here to be here and to see people and schmooze” to “I am here to collect leads, follow up on those leads and make sales.” If you do nothing other than that, you’re going to maximize your revenue from trade shows. David: Hi and welcome to the podcast. In today’s episode, co-host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing how to maximize trade show revenue. Welcome, Jay. Jay: Hey, thank you for having me on, David. I hope everybody had a wonderful holiday and have big plans for the great new year, and I’m sure trade shows, for a lot of people that’s part of their plan, so they should go in with some goals and some ways to make sure that they can maximize those benefits. David: Absolutely. In last week’s podcast, we were talking about hitting the ground running in the new year. And today we will continue that trend with the idea of trade shows. In the promotional products industry, this is definitely trade show season, which is why I thought it would be a good idea to address this topic. This week, in fact, the PPAI Expo in Las Vegas is going on. From the standpoint of promotional product suppliers, this is a really big show because that’s when they get to meet all the distributors. From a distributor’s standpoint, they get to see all the new products that are coming out. They get to visit with the suppliers who decorate the products, and it’s a really big show. I sound like Ed Sullivan, “it’s a really big show!” Takes place in Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas, and that’s going on this week. And what we’re talking about today, because most of the people who take advantage of our materials are promotional product distributors. They’re walking the show this week. So what I’m talking about in terms of this topic though, is maximizing trade show revenue as an exhibitor. Because a lot of our clients who are walking the show this week as attendees, also will very often exhibit at other shows and try to sell their wares there. And so I wanted to touch on that topic a little bit this week. Jay: Yeah. And I’m really glad you are because I’ve been in both situations. I’ve walked a show trying to meet people, handing out cards. “Hey, this is what we do.” And I’ve also been an exhibitor. There’s nothing worse than being an exhibitor and watching people walk by your booth all day long. You know, you almost need to have the old carnival barker out front, trying to bring people in. And that can be frustrating, because you paid money and you’re hoping to generate revenue. David: Absolutely, and I’ve done the same thing, but on both sides of the equation. Walk shows, and also been an exhibitor at shows. And one of the first shows that we ever exhibited at, we had never done it before. So when you’re new at exhibiting at a trade show, you have no idea what you’re getting into. You’re going to have a booth. You’re going to have some sort of backdrop, or you’re just going to have nothing and a couple of people standing there. But I don’t really want to get into all of that too deeply. I mean, whatever you decide in terms of the environment that you want to create there, obviously you want to create an environment that looks inviting, looks welcoming. You probably don’t just want to have two metal chairs and stand there looking at people as they go by. They’re probably not going to want to approach. But, when you are not really familiar with what to do, you tend to just sort of go for cosmetics in some cases. Like maybe you’ll put up a nice booth and then you’ll stand there and wait for people to come by, that type of thing. But what I’ve noticed is that many people, if not most people who exhibit at trade shows, take a very reactive approach. They show up. They set up their booth. And then they try to make eye contact with people as they’re going by. And a lot of people, when they go to trade shows, they tend to do “the bounce.” They don’t want to stop at every single booth. So if they hit the booth next to yours, they’ll probably try to get by you to get to the next thing that they actually want to see. So there are a lot of things like that. But, If we recognize that the goal is not just to inhabit

To hit the ground running in 2023, we can start by taking responsibility. Whenever we blame outside factors for things that go wrong, we immediately forget that there are things we can evaluate in ourselves to say, okay, well even if this is the case, even if this was just a terrible prospect, are there things that I could have done better and differently in this circumstance to create a better outcome? And almost inevitably, the answer is going to be yes. But in order for that to happen, we have to consider it. And we have to think, is this actually what I want to do? And if you do that, you’re just going to feel better about yourself. You’re going to feel better about your situation. Because you’re allowing yourself some level of control in the situation rather than simply delegating the failure to outside factors and assume you’re a victim and there’s nothing you can do about it. David: Hi and welcome to the podcast. In today’s episode, co-host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing how to hit the ground running in the new year. Happy New Year, and welcome back Jay! Jay: Thank you, David. It’s such a pleasure to be here. I think everybody has a desire, you know, at the beginning of the year, to say this year’s going to be different, you know, we’re going to make all these changes. It’s going to be fantastic. But do they really have a way to translate that into action? I picture myself hitting the ground, you know, it’s like the cartoon when they start to run, you know, their feet are moving, but they’re not moving quite yet. I think a lot of us are in that place. How do we get from spinning to actually moving forward? David: Yeah, it’s a great question. I know in the promotional products industry, we have trade shows that start at the beginning of the new year, the ASI Show in Orlando, the PPAI Expo in Las Vegas. And, There’s one in Fort Worth as well, an ASI show in Fort Worth. I think it’s actually in January as well this year. So we got three trade shows in the industry that are really designed to help people get up and running and get started. But as we look at today, you know, this first week of the new year, even aside from that, whether or not you’re attending a trade show, chances are you’re probably pretty reasonably fired up. Okay, here we go. It’s another new year. What are we going to do? This is exciting. And if we think about the types of prospects that we want to interact with this year, the types of clients that we would like to attract, the types of customers that we might want to let go this year, and really focus on building our businesses as proactively as possible. Building our client lists as proactively as possible can really help to improve our quality of life in a dramatic way. Jay: Yeah. I love that. in the restaurant business, there’s something called a theoretical food cost and an actual food cost. Theoretical is, what would things be like if you ran perfectly? If there was no waste, nothing. Everything was perfect. And then actual is where you’re at. And the goal is to constantly be trying to close that gap. And so to me, I think about it in any business, what does your ideal look like? Your ideal client base, your ideal staff, your ideal sales? So if you can know what that is and then track a course to get to it, I think that’s a great way to feel progress. Because that’s what I tend to miss when I’m running a business is sometimes it’s just a daily grind. And I don’t feel like I made any progress today. And if you do that over and over again, it’s hard to continue to press forward. David: It really is. And I think a lot of that goes to the fact that very often we’re just tied up in the day. Whatever it is that’s going on in the day, we’re just facing whatever is happening to us moment by moment, day by day. And that can get very frustrating. I remember, I think it was Tony Robbins was talking in a seminar one time about the idea that in order to create our future, we need to envision it first. It’s like if you are going to build a house, you don’t just start nailing boards together, I think was the analogy he used. I thought it was a great one. You have to envision it first. You have to figure out, what do I want this thing to look like? Where is it going to be located? How many rooms are going to be in it? All that sort of thing. And at the beginning of a new year, it’s really nice to start thinking about what do I want my life to look like this year? Who do I want to be surrounded by? Who do I want to interact with? Who do I no longer want to interact with? What types of customers do I want to work with? What types of customers have I decided I’m no longer really interested in pursuing anymore? Simple decisions like that can have an amazing impact on your life and your career.

Today, we’ll discuss how to use the Big APE™ this week to plan the new year. Very often we say we’re going to prioritize time with our family and our loved ones. And we do this every year, January 1st, going to spend more time with the people we care about, the people we love. And then by March, it’s back to life as usual, right? So if we decide what we’re going to prioritize, who we’re going to prioritize, and again, the flip side, what am I going to deprioritize? Who am I no longer going to prioritize in terms of allocating time? Those things as well allow you to live a far more proactive life. And it allows you to really start living the kind of life that you want to engage in. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today’s episode, co-host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing using the Big APE this week to prepare for the new year. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Well, I’m so glad to be here. David. I have to tell you, after Christmas my number one tendency is just to kind of want to detox, you know, because of all the shopping and everything else. But I know it’s also, because there’s not a lot going on business wise. It’s probably a great time to kind of start thinking about the next year. David: Yeah, and I think detoxing is also a really good part of that. It’s nice to be able to use this time, it’s sort of the eye of the hurricane, a little break in the action before the new year starts and everything gets rolling again. It’s just a great time to be able to do that, to be able to take a breath. Take a moment. Sort of think through how things went, what we liked, and what we didn’t like about the past year and what we want to do better and differently in the coming year. And for me, I think it’s just a great time for planning, for making notes, and really considering the things that we’d like to accomplish. Because, there’s something magical about a new year where everybody wants to start fresh and turn the page. I mean, there’s no reason you couldn’t do that any day or every week. Reminds me of the expression, “today is the first day of the rest of your life.” People hear that and they go, “yeah, that’s right.” And then we never do anything about it. But boy, January 1st rolls around and everybody wants to do things. We’ve got different resolutions, and I’m going to do this better. I’m going to do that better. Lots of people join gyms and they go for two weeks. Then that’s the end of it, right? So there is this tendency to get really excited and really focused about a new year, and then perhaps let it fall away. So if we use this week to just really think through, okay, what do I really want? What am I trying to get out of my life, my business, you know, my relationships? What is it that I’m looking to accomplish? It’s just a nice sort of quiet time to consider those sort of things. Jay: Yeah, and I think, you gave the example of the gyms. My wife goes to the gym all the time and she can’t stand January and into February because she can’t find an open machine to use, because everybody has set this new goal and it’s going to last at most six weeks and then everybody returns. I think that that’s kind of a microcosm of our goal setting for the new year and for resolution. So it has to be important too, as you’re being mindful to be specific I think, but also to be reasonable with yourself, achievable, right? And trackable are all things that I think would probably be important in this process. David: Absolutely. There’s another thing that I tend to think of, just in terms of planning and thinking things through. I refer to it as The Big Ape, A.P.E., the Big Ape. And it stands for activities, priorities, and expectations. So what are the activities that I want to engage in in the new year? What are the activities I no longer want to engage in in the new year? Right? And that’s big. So much of growth in business and personal development comes not just from what we do, but from what we decide we’re no longer going to do. Changing those behaviors that have not created the results that we’ve been looking for in the past. So if you were to do nothing else this week but get out a pad of paper and then jot down, okay, what are the activities I really want to engage in in the new year? And what are the activities I want to either do less of or completely eliminate? Start with that. And that exercise alone just allows you to kind of feel good. Because it’s a glimpse into your potential future, right? You have to decide whether or not you’re going to engage in those activities, if you’re going to follow through and do it. But as you write that sort of thing down, you say, okay, this is what I would like to be doing on a daily basis, a weekly basis, a monthly basis. Wh

I think the best holiday gift is to make the most of ourselves, when it comes to personal development, whether that means sales and marketing training, whether it means personal training, whether it means meditation, whatever it is for you, prayer, whatever it is that allows you to get to a place where you can really focus, really be present, and be your best for yourself, and those around you, is really important. David: Hi and welcome to the podcast. In today’s episode, co-host, Jay McFarland and I will be discussing the best holiday gift you can give yourself and your family. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Thank you so much, David, for the opportunity to be here. And I love this question. It’s a little off track from some of the things that we normally talk about. But I think as we talk about running your own business and the amount of time that it takes, taking a little bit of time out to think about your family and how you can make their holidays special, I think it’s a critical topic. David: Yeah. And of course, because of the nature of the things that we talk about, what I’m really thinking about when it comes to the best holiday gift you can give yourself and your family, I tend to look at it as “a better you,” right? If you can provide yourself and your family with a better you, a smarter you, a more motivated you, a more inspired you, that is going to really make a huge difference in your business life, in your personal life, and the life of the people that you care about. And of course, this time of year a lot of people are focused on actual gift giving, which of course is a traditional thing as well. But when we think about what really is going to help ourselves, our family, our loved ones most, it’s going to be, you know, a healthier, happier, safer, more productive you, generally. Jay: Yeah. I love this line of thinking because you could give them all the presents in the world, but if you’re stressed out all the time, if you’re angry, because of what’s going on at work and those types of things, you can’t buy their love or their gratitude with gifts. Maybe they’re a little bit happy in the morning, but by the end of the day they still remember what kind of circumstances you’ve left them in. David: Yeah, I remember when the kids were really young and we’d have gifts in the morning and by afternoon , it was like everybody was kind of cranky because you kind of get what you wanted out of the day and have too many sweets and all that sort of thing. But again, I think if we think really more in terms of what we’re going to be doing and how we’re going to be living and interacting with each other. A great example of this about a week or so ago on social media, Charity Gibson, who is involved in the promotional products industry in a lot of ways, and is just really inspiring for a lot of people. She posted something on Facebook about what happens when, at some point, you’re doing everything for everyone else and you’re not doing anything for yourself. You’re not taking care of yourself. And I think it’s such a great point, because a lot of times people can fall into this trap of thinking, well, I don’t want to be selfish. But there is a big difference between selfishness and what I refer to as rational self-interest. In other words, rational self-interest is what keeps us from stepping off the curb and into traffic, right? The desire to look both ways before we cross the street. That’s rational self-interest. Nobody would really look at that and say, oh, you’re being selfish. But I think a lot of times people tend to, for themselves mostly, think, well, I should be doing more. I could be doing more. They want to help everybody else. And if you don’t put gas in your own tank first, you’re not going to have any energy left for anyone else. Jay: Yeah, such a good point. In fact, I saw a study just yesterday and it was talking about the high levels of anxiety in our youth, but also in adulthood. And they said, you know, anxiety is something you don’t want to have to deal with, but it’s a warning sign. It’s your system telling you something. Something’s going on. And we tend to just want to medicate it instead of saying, you know, what’s going on in my life that’s causing that? And one of the things they identified is what you’re talking about. We’re not taking time for ourselves. We’re putting so much pressure on ourselves that we’re never taking a break. And our body is telling us, look, this is too much. You can’t handle it. And instead of listening, we’re going “just drug me up and I’ll figure it out.” David: Yeah. I think the whole idea of making the most of ourselves, when it comes to personal development, whether that means sales and marketing training, whether it means

When you think about the idea of quiet quitting, and sticking with it, that just seems to me to be a soul-sucking activity. If you keep going back to the same job that you can’t stand and you’re producing at low levels because you don’t like the way you’re compensated, do something better for yourself! David: Hi and welcome to the podcast. In today’s episode, co-host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing Quiet Quitting. (Whispers) Hi Jay. Welcome. Jay: Yeah. Hey, David. It’s great to talk to you. We live in a world where these new terms pop up and keeping up with the terms is so difficult. So I think, first of all, we should probably define it for people. If they haven’t heard the term quiet quitting, what is it referring to? David: Okay. Well, I looked this up before we got on here because I wanted to have a definition that isn’t just me talking off the top of my head. Basically what they said online, when you Google it, the first one that came up said, quiet quitting refers to a rising trend where employees are doing the bare minimum at work, a reversal of the tendency to go above and beyond in the workplace. So that’s kind of a long-winded definition. Another one that I saw said employees who put no more effort into their jobs than absolutely necessary. And I thought that existed for a long time, right? That’s not a new concept. I think the term is new and I hate the term. I really do. When I hear quiet quitting, it just makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up. I’m very. uncomfortable with the term. I don’t know how you feel about it. Jay: Well, you know, it’s interesting. I put together a management course 20 years ago, and I had my own name for it. I called it minimum expectations mode. So not as fancy as quiet quitting. But I believe that as a result of poor management, poor training, those types of things, employees would slip into this minimum expectations mode where they’re going to show up to work, they’re going to do as little as possible, stay under the radar as much as they can, collect a paycheck and then go home. And do that as long as they, can until eventually, you know they’re going to get fired if the company is tracking any of that. David: Yeah. And I think that whole idea of people just sort of doing the minimum, that’s existed forever. I think it’s the title of this term that sort of bothers me. Because it implies that you’ve actually quit quietly and you’re really not doing what it is that you’re paid to do. And the thing that I find most frustrating about this, is not the impact that it’s going to have on the employer. It’s the impact that it’s going to have on the person who is engaging in this sort of behavior. Because if you think about it, if I go to work every day with the idea of doing the very bare minimum to do as little as possible, collect my check and go home. What does that do for me as a person? What does that do to my ability to grow and potentially thrive or whatever? Some people don’t care about that. Some people don’t want to grow or thrive. And if that’s the situation, and if they’re doing the bare minimum and if that’s acceptable to their employer, then they can probably keep doing that for a really long time. But I think for people who actually want to excel, want to be really good at what they do, then this should make them a little uncomfortable as well. Jay: Yeah, it’s such a good point. You’re maintaining self-esteem while working at a job where you know you could be doing more and you should be doing more. Because they’re paying you to do more and you are not. I think that wreaks havoc on the soul of most people. I think it’s important though to talk about how you end up in this place. When I was much younger, we had a manager who was never happy with anything. You knew that he was going to be critical of everything that you did. And the net result of that was we knew we could never win. In fact, we started saying that amongst ourselves. You can never win with him. And so when you can never win, you’re going to go into quiet quitting, or minimum expectations mode. Because why would you try harder? You know what’s the point of that? If I know that I’m going to get criticized no matter what, then why on earth would I go out of my way to do more? And the turnover rate in this company was just amazing, because everybody wanted to get out and they were a quiet quitter until they did get out. David: Yeah, and I think it’s sort of natural that when someone is not happy at their job, that’s going to happen. But if that starts happening, I think that anyone who has some integrity and some motivation should probably recognize that as a sign to be getting as many resumes out as possible, as quickly as possible. Right now, if people want t

Are you invisible to your target market? Do they even know you’re alive? This goes back to the idea of money versus time. Because one of the advantages of social media is that if you have more time than you have money, you can spend more time posting and contacting people directly on social media. If you have more money than you have time, then you can run ads and you can get your ads in front of people without having to sit in front of the computer all day. So there are definitely different ways to accomplish this. If you want to become visible though, you have to have one or the other. You have to have time or money. You can’t be out of both. Well, I have no money and I have no time to do this. Well, at that point, you’re out of business. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today’s episode, cohost Jay McFarland and I will be discussing the topic of, Are You Invisible to Your Target Market? Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Thank you so much, David. This one is tough for me because when you know you have a product that people want, you just know it. And you know if they could just learn about you, that you would be able to sell this product and you just know they don’t see you. It’s a frustration. It really is. David: Yeah, we’ve talked about this topic before. I’ve talked about this topic in live presentations and probably in previous podcasts, and one of the reasons that I keep coming back to it is that it really resonates with a lot of people in business, a lot of sales people, a lot of business owners, because it is so important. The idea of being visible or invisible to your target market is going to directly impact your ability to make things happen. And what I find kind of fun about this topic, to the extent that it can be fun, is that a lot of times in the movies or in television, invisibility is generally viewed as a big advantage. It’s an asset, you know, Ooh, wouldn’t it be cool if I’m Harry Potter and I’ve got my invisibility cloak, and I can do all sorts of things that are cool and fun. But in business invisibility is just deadly. Because, as you indicated, if the people who could benefit from what you’re offering don’t see you, don’t hear you, don’t know you’re there, don’t know you are alive, then you have absolutely zero possibility of selling to them. So in evaluating that question for yourself, are you invisible to your target market? It’s probably a good idea to really think it through, and don’t assume that you are more visible than you might actually be. Jay: Yeah, we know about assumptions, right? But I think this is also important because a lot of people will only focus on advertising that gets them leads or some type of returns. There’s a whole nother level of advertising where it’s just brand awareness. You’re probably not going to generate clicks, but if you can be one of the options in their mind, you know, if you’re a plumber and you’re not necessarily getting a lead every time you send out a postcard or something, but when that toilet finally goes down, if you’re one of the three that they think about, then you’re so much closer. And so that’s a part of advertising that I think a lot of people miss. David: Yeah, I completely agree. I think another problem that people run into sometimes with this is that they’re trying to be everywhere at all times with everyone. And unless you have an unlimited budget, that just doesn’t work. So you can get in front of a whole lot of people who have absolutely no capacity to buy from you. I’ve worked with businesses in the past that were running radio ads and they were business to business businesses. And they’re running on music stations, and I’m like, okay, well, it’s possible that there are some business owners or some people who could buy from you who are listening to that station, but the majority of people listening to that ad don’t own businesses. They can’t use what it is that you’re selling. So you’re paying 100% of the purchase price of an ad on that radio station, but maybe only one to 2% of that audience is someone who could benefit from what you’re doing. So in that case, they have the opposite problem. They’re visible to lots of people, very few of whom can actually purchase. So recognizing that we need to be visible primarily to the people who have the ability to spend money with us is going to be key. Jay: Yeah, absolutely. And that takes research and time and tracking. But you work a lot with promotional products, and I used to think, what good is somebody giving out pens or mouse pads or things like that. This is one of those things, you’ve been holding that pen and using it for weeks and it’s got somebody’s name on it. I didn’t need ’em before, and now suddenly I d

To become a 100K a month producer without losing your marbles means building your business properly. The issue that I’ve seen with a you-centric business is it’s almost like you’re building a cocoon around yourself. You’re starting out with this business and you’re doing things, and the more things you do, the more you’re weaving this cocoon around yourself, and you sort of isolate yourself in the middle of everything. And then when it comes time to grow, you don’t really know how to do it because you’re stuck in the middle of this whole thing. And so for most people who want to grow beyond what they’re just capable of doing themselves or who want to create a business that could exist separately from them, where they could say, “I own that business, but I’m not operating in it every single day of the week.” That requires an entirely different mindset and entirely different approach. David: Hi and welcome to the podcast. In today’s episode, cohost Jay McFarland and I will be discussing how to become a 100K a month producer without losing your marbles. Hi Jay. Jay: Hey, David. It’s great to talk about this issue because I think, you know, people imagine I’m going to be an entrepreneur and they think about the money and the lifestyle and what they did is they actually created a job that they’re working, you know, 60 hours a week, 70 hours a week. They’re not making progress. And so they’ve created a job and they were actually trying to create a lifestyle. And so that can be very difficult. David: Yeah, it definitely can. And I think the whole idea of trying to do it all for many people is difficult. And different people have different tolerances for pain. So some people need to hire earlier. Some people can afford to wait. They have the bandwidth to be able to do that. I know personally for myself, I had to hire early because there were specific skills that I just wasn’t good at. And there are certain skills that you have to have in business, and if you’re not good at them, you’re going to have to hire for them. So for me, I ended up doing it sooner rather than later, and I did it wrong. In the early stages, I ended up hiring another salesperson just like me. So we had two people who were good at sales and nobody who was good at doing the numbers and things like that. So you learn from those mistakes. But, if you want to become a 100K a month producer without losing your marbles, you need to focus on what are the things that actually need to happen in this business, well and consistently, and then do what it takes to get all that in place. Jay: Do you think it’s possible for somebody to be a 100K producer on their own? I know you said it was difficult or you had to move sooner. I’m just curious. Do you think that somebody could say, no, I’m going to do it on my own? David: I know it’s possible because I have clients who have done it. And I marvel with them. When they tell me what they’re doing and they tell me how they’re doing it, I’m like, “I don’t know how you do that.” I mean, a longtime client of ours, I love her so much, her name was Barb Burcham. She passed away a few years ago. But Barb was great. She did over a million dollars a year in promotional product sales, essentially by herself. I think she might have had an assistant at one point. And she did it on small orders. She participated in one of our mastermind discussions and she was talking about how she just has all these clients and she’s taking a lot of small orders, but she was able to do it. And I asked her, well, what sort of CRM are you using? She was doing it in Outlook and I was like, “I don’t know how you do that. I have no idea how you do that.” There’s another great client of ours, a guy named John, who does over a million dollars a year, primarily by himself. He might also have a little bit of outside help, but he’s just able to do it. So I think a lot of it is deciding am I able to do it? I know for me, there are aspects of the job where, no, I’m just not going to do a good enough job at it where I would trust myself to handle those aspects of it. Sales and marketing, yeah, I’m good with that. But other aspects of it in terms of ongoing operations and in terms of handling the finance and all that kind of thing that’s where I definitely need help. So it really depends a lot on the individual. Jay: Yeah, and I think that’s one of the things that’s really hard. Some people can’t really self-assess very well. You ask them what are you good at? And they might tell you everything. And the reality is they’re not good at everything. And so it’s hard for them to know, well, I should be focusing on this area and then I could get somebody else, like you said, to focus on the other

When you think about what top performers do better and differently, consider this. It’s almost impossible to overfill your sales pipeline. So if you focus on making sure that you’ve got more there than you actually need, you’re going to be in much better shape. Just look at the numbers, if you’ve got a hundred people in your pipeline and 1% of them close today, you made a sale. If you’ve got ten people in your pipeline and 1% of them close today, you did not make a sale. So from that standpoint, just the basic numbers say you want to make sure that you’ve got enough qualified leads in your pipeline so that somebody can close today. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today’s episode, cohost Jay McFarland and I will be discussing what $100,000 per month producers do better and differently. Welcome, Jay. Jay: Hey, thank you so much, David. I really can’t wait to talk about this, because it will allow people to look at what they’re doing and compare themselves. And sometimes when you don’t have that, it’s hard to know if you’re doing things right. And you’re kind of more shooting in the dark than actually being purposeful about your daily activities. David: Exactly. And I think a lot of people, if they just really enjoy what they do and they focus every day on meeting new people and interacting and trying to find solutions, that’s all great. But if you want to be able to start achieving some of the financial goals that you have for yourself, then it really makes a lot of sense to say, okay, what are the people who are doing this extremely successfully from a financial standpoint, doing better and differently, or at least differently than what I’m doing now. Jay: Yeah. I saw in your ebook that time is significant. Top producers leverage their time better than others. How do you go about leveraging your time better? David: You know, it seems so difficult, and yet when you really boil it down, it’s actually pretty simple. If you think about the idea of being in front of a prospect or a potential client, and if that person has the ability to spend a thousand dollars with you, that’s different if that person has the ability to spend $10,000 with you, or $50,000 with you, or a hundred thousand dollars with you over the course of the next year or the next couple of years, or their entire working lifetime. And so leveraging your time can start with things as simple as deciding in advance what types of prospects you want to be in front of. And ideally, they’re going to be the type of people who actually need what you have to offer, purchase it on a regular basis, have decent budgets, have the ability to spend, the willingness to spend and the money to pay the bills after they’ve ordered it. Jay: Yeah, so identifying that client, first of all. And then I think that there is a tendency, especially for the smaller business owner, to get caught up in things that they could be having other people do. And so figuring out where your time is best spent is going to be a key to being able to grow. David: Yeah, no question. And so if you think about leveraging your time, that does go directly to that point, which is to say, okay, which activities are not worth the amount of money that I’d like to be making on an hourly basis, daily basis, weekly basis. Because if you’re engaged in those activities, they will just never pay more than they’re worth. If you’re doing administrative tasks, that could be done by somebody else for 10 or $15 an hour. Then those tasks are not going to produce a hundred dollars or 200 or $500 an hour for you. They’re only ever going to be worth that amount of money. So by delegating those things to the extent that you can, that is another way that you can help to leverage yourself, leverage your time, and make sure that you’re spending or investing your time in the right ways to get the results you’re looking for. Jay: Right, and what’s really cool is in today’s world, you know, people are like, well, I can’t afford to hire an administrative assistant and have payroll and all of those things. There are so many great services out there now where there are freelancers standing by, ready to do piece work or whatever to take some of that burden off of you. I just love that part of how technology has made that easy. Your assistant could be in another part of the world doing things for you while you leverage your time better. David: Absolutely. And also I think there’s a chicken and egg scenario that people get into. I can’t afford to hire somebody else for whatever, $15 an hour. Well, if you can’t afford to hire somebody else for $15 an hour, it probably means that you are already engaged in activities that are only worth that much or less. Right? Because if you were engaged in activities that were worth. $50 an hour

In a special Saturday edition of the Top Secrets podcast, David Blaise explains to co-host Jay McFarland why 100K per month in promo sales is not just doable, it’s also a decent, worthy goal for promo distributors who aren’t there yet. Comment below and let us know if you agree or disagree. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today’s episode, cohost Jay McFarland and I will be discussing the significance of each $100,000 in promotional product sales. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey, it’s great to be back with you. David, and I really want to talk about this topic a little bit. I know you’ve put a lot of emphasis on that first hundred thousand dollars. What makes that so significant, so special? David: Well, that’s a great question. I mean, it’s the first hundred thousand dollars, it’s every a hundred thousand dollars thereafter. And there’s no real magic significance, I don’t think. But if you bring in a thousand dollars sale or a $2,000 sale or a $5,000 sale — and I’m talking in the promotional products industry primarily, because that’s who this material was put together for — it’s helpful. It’s good. It feels good to bring those sales in. But, ultimately that can be done in a day or a couple of days or a week. And I think sometimes it’s just good to have sort of benchmarks that are out there a little bit. So generating a hundred thousand dollars in sales of promotional products for most people is an accomplishment. Whether that happens in the course of six months, or three months, or a month, or a week, or a day. It doesn’t usually happen for most people in a day. The industry at large generally does about a quarter of a million dollars in annual sales. Most salespeople do roughly that on average in the industry. So each hundred thousand dollars is actually pretty significant. And I think that when you look at trying to make an impact and trying to generate the revenue that you need to be able to support the lifestyle that you’d like to become accustomed to, it’s good to sort of stretch yourself a bit and to ask yourself. Okay. What am I doing to get to my next Hundred K in revenue or my first, if you’re just getting started. Hitting that first hundred thousand is usually pretty significant for people. Jay: Yeah. I’m guessing most people remember that first hundred thousand. But I think you’re right. You know, were they looking at that moment as benchmark? Were they saying ” this is going to be significant and this is our plan on how we’re going to reach it.” Or was it kind of haphazard and what a great milestone, but what did they do ahead of time to get to that point? David: Yeah, and that’s the question that each person has to ask themselves. What did I do to get me to this point? How long did it take to get there as well? I mean, there are some people who spend, and whether they start out part-time or whatever it is they’re doing, some people spend six months or a year or a couple of years even before they hit six figures in gross sales. When you’re doing that, you’re not earning a lot of money. Some people start out and they’re doing it part-time. They’re doing it on the side. So if they generate a hundred grand in gross sales, it seems like a really significant accomplishment for them. But if you look at the amount of time that it took to get there, sometimes you have to say, okay, well could I have done that faster? And for people who really want to make their mark and want to be able to generate significant sales, I think that it’s just a decent sort of benchmark to look at, to say, “okay, how long is it going to take me to get to my next a hundred thousand in gross sales? Is it going to take me a year? Is it going to take me six months? It’s going to take me a quarter. Is it going to take me a month? How long will it take and how quickly could I do it again?” Because that will determine ultimately what your gross sales are going to be, which determines your gross profits, which then determines your personal income. Jay: Yeah, I’m just curious, as you’re thinking about this, you talk about maybe starting out part-time, how do you judge? How do you know how much time should it take to get to that first hundred k? I think initially it may be hard to figure out what those milestones are and how you’re going to achieve them. Once you’ve achieved them, I think you can understand better. Okay, let’s shorten that time and those kind of things. David: Yeah. Well, I do a lot of work with people in the industry, and some of them are just starting out. And many of them don’t even really have any good solid benchmarks in place. They’re not thinking, “okay, well I’m targeting X amount of revenue.” They think to themselves, “okay,

Hi, I’m David Blaise and over the past few days, I’ve been sharing some resources designed to help professionals in the promotional products industry to achieve some of the financial goals that are important to them, including your next 100K in promo sales. Last week, I released a free ebook entitled How to Make $100,000 Every Month in Promotional Product Sales. To some people, that sounds like a lot of money. To others, particularly those who’ve already achieved it, it might sound just like another day at the office. So on Monday of this week, I released a video entitled “Your Next $100,000 in Promotional Product Sales.” If you’re brand new to the industry, your next hundred thousand in promotional product sales might be your first hundred thousand. If that’s the case, then hopefully that topic might seem pretty exciting to you. If you’ve already done a hundred thousand dollars in promotional product sales, then your next 100K will get you to $200,000. That would be double. So hopefully the idea of doubling would be pretty exciting to you as well. Of course, If you’ve already done $200,000 in sales, an extra hundred thousand will get you to 300. That’s a 50% increase over where you were at 200. Hopefully, that’s still exciting. But even as you continue to grow, each additional hundred thousand dollars in sales — every Next 100K — will get you closer to your desired sales, profitability, and income goals. One of the first things I addressed in the $100K ebook is the huge difference between gross sales, gross profit, and personal income. When we talk about Your Next $100,000, we can refer to any or all of the above. If your goal is to grow your personal income an extra hundred thousand dollars, that’s quite a bit different than if you just want to grow your gross sales by that much. However, many of the things you have to do in order to make that happen, are the same. It will often start with top-line growth — bringing in the additional sales necessary to generate the profits you need to increase your personal income. That’s why in video 1, when we talked about Your Next $100K, we discussed the fact that every sale you make is going to come from one of two primary groups of people. If you’re just starting out, those sales will actually come from just one primary group of people. But as you take action, and bring new clients through the door, you will create another source of clients — another source of future business — that will often be worth far more to you than the new customers you’re creating when you’re just starting out. Also, today I’m releasing video 2 in this series along with a free copy of my $100K Cheat Sheet. The $100K Cheat Sheet is a single-page document, but it really could (and should) be worth an additional hundred thousand dollars to you in your business over the course of the next year, IF you download it, print it out, think through the answers and take action on the recommendations made in that one-page document. In order to make it even easier for you to accomplish this, in today’s video, I’ll walk you through exactly how to complete the cheat sheet in a way that doesn’t require a lot of time, doesn’t require a lot of thought, and will help you to generate a level of focus that you may not have had in your business for a very long time. One of the big advantages to the concept of Your Next $100K is that it will keep you FOCUSED instead of just thinking, “What do I need to do today?” Or “What should I be working on today?” Or “What fires do I have to put out today?” Instead, you can be focused on the specific people and actions required to help you generate Your Next $100,000 in Promotional Product Sales. As I mentioned in video 1, if you bring in an extra thousand dollars, or an extra $10,000, it’s a help. It’s an accomplishment. But when you bring in Your Next $100,000 in Promotional Product Sales, it’s far more than that. It’s proof of concept. It demonstrates that the concepts and specific actions that I recommend in the $100K ebook, the Next $100K video series, and the $100K Cheat Sheet and video actually work. So with the right focus and consistent actions, you can start to achieve your financial goals systematically, instead of just haphazardly or every now and then. After you go through the ebook, the next $100K video, the $100K Cheat Sheet and ask any questions you have, I’ll give you a sneak peek inside our Next $100K portal. This is where I personally work with my clients to help them reach and exceed their next $100K in promotional product sales. Then on Thursday of this week, I’ll be opening up the doors to a small group of industry professionals who would like to work with me personally to achieve these milestones in their businesses. But regardle

I think for people who are looking to compete with internet sellers, one of the things they can do is say, “Yeah, you know, now anybody can set up a website. Anybody can say anything they want. But what if something goes wrong? Who are you going to talk to? You know, if you and I are working together, if there’s a problem, I’m going to be the one to handle it. Do you know who’d be handling it on the other end?” David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today’s episode, cohost Jay McFarland and I will be discussing how to compete with internet sellers. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Thank you, David. So glad to be here, and this is a big deal. I’ve found sometimes I don’t even know that there’s an internet seller that I’m competing with. In fact, the other day I was trying to send somebody to our website and we found out somebody had grabbed a domain very close to ours. They’re offering a close product of ours. And now, every time somebody mistypes in our domain, they’re going to go to one of our competitors. And I’m incredibly frustrated by it and dealing with that very situation right now. David: Yeah. Squatters, they call them. Domain squatters. Very frustrating. Jay: Yeah. David: Yeah. Well, I know a lot of people, particularly people who have brick-and-mortar businesses, for the most part — but they may have an online presence — often struggle with the fact that internet sellers can sometimes seem to create better deals. Because they have lower overhead or they have more connections, or they have different connections. Or because of the fact that the client themselves are doing more of the work. Because if somebody can go to a website, pick something out, order it and not involve a human being, they can certainly save money if they’ve got that technology set up. But there are limits, and depending on the industry you’re in, depending on what you’re selling, very often human beings can have a bigger advantage, and human beings can also justify higher prices because of the level of service they provide. And I think that’s something that people tend to forget about. They tend to think in terms of, “okay, I can’t compete with this. These online sellers are able to provide stuff faster and cheaper.” But faster and cheaper is not always everything that people are looking for. Jay: I would say most times faster and cheaper… David: yeah. Jay: is not. But I also think that we’ve kind of accepted faster and cheaper in a lot of ways. You know, it’s another one of those things that’s changed with the pandemic. I think one of the other problems is that you can put anything on a website. You can say anything. It’s not like when you walk in a store and you can see how clean the store is. You can see. You can feel the quality of the product. You have all of this tangible nature to it. That’s all gone and we’re ordering stuff that we just see pretty pictures of. That makes it very hard to compete on the internet. David: It can, but actually that knowledge and the ability to communicate that can also do something that’s very important for terrestrial sellers, shall we say. People who operate in non-internet businesses. And that’s that they can. Or so the seeds of doubt, they can basically say pretty much exactly what you said. Yeah. You know, there’s a big difference between seeing an image on your screen and then getting it, and having it arrive, and having it be different or look different, you just don’t know that. And that even goes back to printed catalogs. There are a lot of times you get a mail-order catalog, you look at something and go, Wow, that looks great. And then you order it and arrives and it seems nothing like what it is that you thought you ordered. So I think for people who are looking to compete with internet sellers, one of the things they can do is say, Yeah, you know, now anybody can set up a website. Anybody can say anything they want, which is pretty much what you were saying. But what if something goes wrong? Who are you going to talk to? You know, if you and I are working together, if there’s a problem, I’m going to be the one to handle it. Do you know who’d be handling it on the other end? Now, if you’re dealing with a company like Amazon that is very good at what they do in terms of getting stuff delivered consistently, that’s a challenge. Because people then know, yeah, if I order it, I’m probably going to get it in a couple of days. Now, today I finally had to request a refund for something that I bought because it got lost in the mail. It wasn’t the vendor’s fault, but it didn’t show up. So that type of thing can happen as well. And who’s responsible for chasing that out? I am, right? Because I bought it online. I own that problem. And so for

If you recognize that more is never the solution to too much, then you can really start to think about what actually has to be done? What could potentially be eliminated so that I can focus my time and attention on the most important things that are actually going to move the needle for myself and my business? David: Hi and welcome to the podcast. In today’s episode, cohost Jay McFarland and I will be discussing the topic more is never the solution to too much. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Thank you so much. I love the title of this podcast and I think it embodies something that we all do. Sometimes we think that because something’s not working, it means we’re not throwing enough at it. So let’s just throw more and throw more and throw more, and that will solve the problem. And perhaps we’re making it worse. Or at the very least, we’re wasting a lot of time and money that could be used more effectively in other places. David: Yeah, so often people talk about, and we’ve talked about in the past, time management. And time management is maybe not the best term to always think of. Because what it implies is that you have to do all these things and you have to manage it better, that maybe you’re messing things up there. But if you recognize that more is never the solution to too much, then you can really start to think about what actually has to be done? What could potentially be eliminated so that I can focus my time and attention on the most important things that are actually going to move the needle for myself and my business? And I think for a lot of us, with COVID and people working from home, it probably caused a lot of people to start thinking about what is the most important aspect of what I do? And how many things that I used to do before, really don’t have to be done anymore? And for anybody who’s watching this, if you haven’t gone through this exercise, I would really encourage you to consider this. Because it’s very likely there are things you’re doing that you’ve been doing for a long time, and it’s always the way we’ve done it. We think we have to keep doing it. But sometimes, that’s not the case. So if you find yourself trying to figure out how you’re going to get it all done, maybe it’s time to start thinking in terms of “what could I potentially eliminate or what could I delegate so that I could really focus on the things that are going to generate the best results for myself?” Jay: Yeah. You mentioned the pandemic and I know personally, it has changed my work style and time management so dramatically on both sides. On the one side, I don’t have the guy coming up to my cubicle every 10 minutes telling me the story about the movie he just watched, right? So I don’t have those interruptions anymore. But on the other side, I have to now be self-efficient, self-productive. Nobody’s looking over my shoulder. Sometimes I don’t speak to other employees for days or weeks, and so… David: mm-hmm. Jay: I have to totally manage that time. So, I think the pandemic has changed work forever. And we’re all having to learn how to, manage that. David: Yeah, it definitely changed things and that’s why I think this idea, this topic. Is so important. Because what I’ve found is that people are overwhelmed. A lot of people are overwhelmed. People are constantly busy, busy, busy. They’re doing different things all the time. Some people wear “busy” as a badge of honor. I don’t really see it that way anymore. And there was a long period of time where I did. It’s like, “Oh yeah, I’m really busy. I’m really busy.” And then I realized, wait a second, what does that mean anyway? Does busy mean productive? Because if busy means productive, then okay, it’s good to be busy. But if you’re busy just for the sake of busy, it’s not. So now I think of it in terms of, “is busy a badge of honor or is it actually an admission of failure?” And I think in a lot of cases, for a lot of people, it becomes an admission of failure even though they may not realize that that’s what’s happening. And I have heard that term from some very high level, very important, impressive people. And when I’ve heard it from them, I thought, “Hmm, I wonder if they’re doing things as well as they could be doing them.” Jay: Yeah. It’s a great question. And there’s a lot of videos on the internet about productivity, and a lot of them, they’re like, Elon Musk, you know, gets up at 3:00 am. He schedules every 30 minutes, whatever. And they compared that to another billionaire who spends a couple hours a day and seems to achieve a similar amount of work. I think we have this tendency to think that there’s only one way to be. That we should all be that way. An

I think just the idea of initiating first contact versus cold call is a lot more exciting. It’s a lot less intimidating in most cases. I started using that phrase after I saw an old Star Trek movie where they referred to first contact as being your first contact with an alien species. And I just thought, wow, that has a lot of correlations with sales. Where you’re approaching somebody and you really don’t know what you’re getting into. Strange new worlds and all that sort of thing…. David: Hi and welcome to the podcast. In today’s episode, cohost Jay McFarland and I will be discussing the idea of initiating first contact with a new prospect. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: I’m so glad to be here, David, and I’m excited to talk about this issue because to me, personally, this is one of the hardest things to do. I’m fine once that first contact has been made. I feel like I’m really good at building relationships and closing. David: Mm-hmm. Jay: But I’m terrified about making that first contact and I’m not really sure how to do it. So I find myself shooting in the dark all the time trying to figure it out. David: Yeah, well, you’re certainly not alone. I’ve certainly felt that way myself, and nearly everybody I’ve ever met in sales has had issues with it. And we talked about this in a previous podcast. We were talking about cold calling and the idea that cold calling is really just one form of first contact. And so the reason I thought it would be good to have a discussion on the topic of First Contact itself is to first of all, recognize that, yeah, it’s more than just cold calling. There are lots of different aspects to it. And if you realize that, then you also realize that you can get comfortable with first contact, generally by engaging in a first contact method that is more comfortable for you. So if cold calling is not your primary thing, you have other alternatives and that should maybe give you a little bit of hope. Jay: Yeah, that does give me hope and I think the key is to know what the possibilities are. Because like I said, sometimes I’m like, okay, my only option is to cold call, and that’s not working. So really understanding what are the other options available. And the other thing I found is, lately I’m better at cold calling because you force yourself to do it enough and you can build a skill and you can get over the hump at least I’m finding that. David: Yeah, absolutely. And when you are good at cold calling, and there are a lot of people who are very good at it, there are a lot of people who actually really like it. They don’t even struggle with the call reluctance and that sort of thing, but for those who do struggle with it, I think just discussing this idea of first contact is going to be helpful. And if we think about why first contact is really so important, in my mind at least, it’s because it really helps to set the stage for the entire relationship. Whatever it is that they’re going to learn about us or think about us down the road, it’s all going to come from what that first contact is. If it’s a great experience, they’re going to have good feelings about us. If it’s less than a great experience, then they’re not going to feel as great about it. Since it sets the tone, it’s really important that people become comfortable with it, or at least come up with a form of first contact that they can be reasonably comfortable with. Jay: Yeah. It’s such a great line of thinking. I hadn’t really thought about it that, that first moment, maybe the first five minutes, David: Right. Jay: That could determine the whole lifespan of the relationship. How they view you. How they respond to your sales pitch. Everything. It’s kind of like we do it in life. First impressions, we know, are everything. Right? David: Exactly. And now there are so many different forms of first contact. For somebody you’ve never met, their first contact with you could be something they saw that you posted on social media. They may be scrolling on Facebook and they come across something that you posted, and that’s their first contact with you. You may not even realize this stuff is happening. But when you recognize that it could be happening, and it very likely is happening, then you can start to really think through the communications that you’re engaged in, and how you want to utilize them so that you can create a good, solid first contact, even when you don’t even know for sure that that’s what you’re doing. Jay: Mm, it’s really great. I think that you can do this on social media now. I always thought of first contact as a phone call, but what if first contact is, they’re watching that video I posted on YouTube. Or they’re watching this podcast that we’re doing right now. They form

I would say the number one thing that helped me the most with overcoming call reluctance is when I realized the people who are likely to yell or scream or be angry or be obnoxious or belligerent, they’re not the people we’re doing it for. We are doing it for the needles in the haystack. We’re doing it to find that perfect-fit customer that needs what we have to offer, and who was waiting for someone like us to come along. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today’s episode, cohost Jay McFarland and I will be discussing the idea of overcoming call reluctance. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: So glad to be here, David. And I really want to hear your feedback on this topic, because this is something that I struggle with. I’ve been put in sales positions in the past. I have a list of leads. All I have to do is pick up the phone and dial those numbers, and I can’t bring myself to do it. Which is funny. I can do it, if it’s a qualified lead and they’re expecting my call, or if they’ve set an online appointment with me, all of that fear goes away. But if it’s a cold call, forget it. I can’t do it. I just can’t. David: Yeah, well call reluctance is a big topic for people who have to make cold calls, and that is one aspect of it. But you hit on a couple of other aspects of it. There are some people who still struggle with the idea of picking up the phone, even when somebody is looking to hear from you. So, we’ll touch on a little of all of that, but you went to the big thing first, which is the idea that there are a lot of people who struggle with call reluctance. They don’t want to pick up the phone, they don’t want to do it. And if we think about the reasons for that, a lot of it becomes kind of obvious. What would you say is your number one reason? Jay: I guess fear of rejection. It’s just hard for me to feel like I’m going to get them to want to hear me. David: Yeah, and one of the reasons that I struggle a bit with this topic is that I’m not a huge fan of cold calls. It’s not that we don’t do them , we do. It’s not that I haven’t done them, I have. But generally speaking, my approach is to try to lead with something of more value. So in those situations, if you follow up with a phone call, it’s a lot more welcome than if they’re not expecting your call. But yes, what I’ve found personally and also with a number of the people that I worked with is that a lot of people think, Well, it’s fear of failure. It’s fear of rejection. I’m afraid that this person is going to get mad or they’re going to get angry or they’re going to hang up on me, and all valid fears because those things happen when you’re making cold calls. And so part of it for me, because those of us who have been in positions where you had to make the calls, regardless of whether or not you felt like it, you have to come up with a way to get over that. And the things that helped me the most, I would say the number one thing that helped me the most, was when I realized the people who are likely to yell or scream or be angry or be obnoxious or belligerent, they’re not the people we’re doing it for. We are doing it for the needles in the haystack. We’re doing it to find that perfect fit customer that needs what we have to offer, that was waiting for someone like us to come along, you know, the knight in shining armor or whatever. Those are the people that we’re doing it for, and you can’t get to those people until, and unless you first get to the ones that might not be as receptive to your message, shall we say? Jay: Yeah, absolutely. My dad was a very successful salesman his whole life. And he always told me that every day he has a goal for how many no’s he’s going to get. He just knew if he’s going to have a successful day, he’s got to have a hundred no’s. And of those no’s, he’s going to pick up a certain percentage of yeses. And so that’s how he made it a game. He made it fun for himself. That tactic never worked for me, but I know it works for a lot of other people. Cause after 10 of those nos, I’m just worn out, you know? David: That is so true. And I’ve heard that and I know that that works for other people. And the fact that it does makes me say, Hey, listen, if that works for you, absolutely do it. For those of us who are like, eh, still not quite there for me, it’s like, okay, well we need another way of approaching it. We need another way to think about. Because really fear of success, fear of rejection, fear of failure, it doesn’t even matter. It all boils down to fear, right? And so if we recognize that it is really fear that’s at the core of this, or in some cases it’s a lack of confidence or a lack of certainty. I’m not sure what’s going

Uncovering customer needs is critical. Essentially, Maslow’s hierarchy of needs implies that when one need is satisfied, another one is likely to pop up. Once I’ve got this satisfied, then I’m going to be working on this, and then I’m going to be working on this. It’s human nature. So if you recognize the fact that the needs are constantly going to be changing and you adopt a policy of constant requalification with your people — staying in touch, building that relationship, and finding out what they need next — you’re going to be in much better shape. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today’s episode, cohost Jay McFarland and I will be discussing the idea of uncovering customer needs. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Thank you so much, David. It’s such a pleasure to be here. I think that this is another great topic because a lot of times we just decide on our own what we think the customer needs, right? So we formulate that in our mind and we try and force that square into a round hole. You’re probably creating a lot more problems that you really don’t need to have. Uncovering customer needs in sales David: Exactly. When salespeople go in with the idea of “what I want to sell this person,” instead of “what does this person need,” they’re behind the eight ball right from the beginning. And I think there are some schools of thought in terms of sales, particularly if it’s a company that has one primary product that they’re looking to push, that, okay, you just have to go in and sell this. It reminds me of, you know, selling things door to door. If you’re a Fuller brush salesman and you’re looking to sell this one particular brush, well that’s my thing. That’s what I’ve got to sell. If you are sort of a one trick pony like that, if you’ve got one thing you want to sell, then this can still actually apply to you. Because when we think in terms of customer needs, I think a lot of people get stuck on the idea that uncovering customer needs means discovering which products they want to buy from us. And uncovering customer needs goes way beyond that. It’s more about what do they really need? Where are they struggling? What do they need help with? What are they trying to accomplish? Because even if you’re selling a Fuller brush, if you go in with the idea of “do you want to buy this brush,” the answer is no. But if you find out that what they’re struggling with is that they’re very busy and they don’t have enough time, and their life is chaotic. Then you may be able to let them know that this Fuller brush is going to allow them to clean things faster and be more economical in their time and accomplish some of the things that they’re telling you are actually important to them. So while that’s a rather extreme example, it really goes to the whole idea of what I believe uncovering customer needs is all about. Uncovering customer needs with questions Jay: Yeah. And I think there’s only one way to get to customer needs and that’s to ask questions, right? David: Right. Jay: If you start out with your sales pitch, you’re not going to know what their needs are. And I also like the idea of letting them talk and that helps you build the relationship and discover their needs. Is there another way besides asking question? David: I don’t think there really is. I mean, you’ve got to be able to get the answers from them. The only way that you can actually uncover a need is for them to vocalize it. I mean, unless it’s something that you’ve observed, Hey, it looks like you could really use this. Right? Or if somebody refers you to that person and says my friend could really use what you’re offering here. But even then, it’s somebody else’s opinion. So that’s just the beginning of a point of conversation. Hey, your friend suggested I give you a call. I understand that you’re looking to accomplish this and perhaps this item can help. Wanted to see what your thoughts are about that. And then yeah, as you indicated, let them talk. Jay: Yeah, and letting them talk, I think you kind of help them understand why they need your product. And like you said, it may not be something they’re thinking about. They may not know that they need your product. But like you said, maybe there’s something else in their life where they don’t have a lot of time. This product will save you time and so you can actually deal with other issues in your life better. So, figuring out how you can best serve them and then helping them come to that conclusion. I love to go down that path in the sales process. David: Yeah, I agree, and I think this really kind of ties to the idea of what a lot of people think of in terms of features and benefits. If I’ve got a phone what&#8217

To monetize your sales pipeline, you need to fill it, prioritize it and tackle it. This whole idea of knowing what to do and not doing it, is rampant. It seems ridiculous. It’s like, well, who would do that? And the answer is nearly everybody does it. And none of us do it on purpose, but we all, to some extent, end up doing it. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today’s episode, cohost Jay McFarland and I will be discussing how to monetize your sales pipeline. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Thank you, David. It’s such a pleasure to be here, and I really can’t wait to talk a little bit more about this process. I see people who kind of think they have a pipeline, but they’re not sure exactly what to do with it. So a good, important topic today. David: Yeah. What to do with it or in a lot of cases, even what it is. I think even before we can talk about how to monetize it, you almost have to identify it. What is it? What is your sales pipeline? Who is it? Who are the people who are in it? Where is it located? Is it just inside your head? Because if it’s just inside your head, leaving enormous amounts of money on the table. Jay: Yeah, and we’ve talked in the past about key performance indicators, KPIs, and so first you have to know what that pipeline is. Then you have to know how to track it and where people are at in each stage so that things ideally trigger automatically. I think that’s the end goal, but getting there can be difficult. 3 Steps to Monetize Your Sales Pipeline David: Yeah, I mean I think of it in terms of filling it, prioritizing it and then tackling it. Because if you’re not sort of doing it in that order, I think it’s going to potentially be problematic for you. Jay: All right. Well then let’s start with filling it. Let’s get that going. David: Okay, Well, when we talk about filling our pipeline after we’ve identified , after we’ve identified what it is and where it is, filling it obviously is the biggest thing. And I think a lot of salespeople tend to think of this as being pretty important, getting new leads into their pipeline. And of course, it is very important. It’s the number one step because until you know who’s in there, you don’t really have anything that you can do. You’ve got to have the prospect first. So filling it starts with asking yourself, who goes in here? And what types of clients am I looking for? Are they in particular types of industries? Are they located in a particular geographic area? What are the different things that I’m looking for in terms of a good, solid prospect for my pipeline? So who goes in is very important. But who stays out is also extremely important. And we don’t think about this, but it is so critical. In my sales career over the years, particularly in the early stages, I just thought if someone was willing to talk to me then they were a good prospect. And I learned, not as quickly as I should have, that that’s just not the case. There are people out there who will be happy to talk to you again and again and never actually buy anything from you. So when you’re looking at who goes in and who stays out, you want to think in terms of exactly that. When you are talking to someone, if you’re not able to get them qualified in as quickly as you’d like, to make sure that they have the need, the desire, the money, the budget, the willingness to spend, then you don’t want to keep going back to that well and expecting to get water out if there’s no water to be found. Jay: You know, we had exactly this problem here recently with the company I’ve been doing consulting for. They wanted to start using Google ads and David: mm-hmm. Jay: So they just put out some general pay for click kind of stuff, and their phones and their online scheduling just lit up. I mean every single day, packed and full. But only about 3% of those calls were related to their actual focus and their product. So they ended up spending all this time. And then what they had to do was go through a process of, like you said, Okay. Identifying the core customer and refining your keywords down to a point where you’re not getting all of that other stuff. At first, they’re like, “look at all these calls. This is going to be great,” and it turned into a huge detractor very quickly. To Monetize Your Sales Pipeline, Don’t Overfill it David: Yeah. And so when we think in terms of filling our pipeline, and I led with that. I said, Okay, first we have to fill it, but we don’t want to overfill it. And we particularly don’t want to fill it with people who have no likelihood of becoming clients. So, a lot of times the thought process is, you know, where is the next lead going to come from? Whether it’s coming from online, whether you’re doing something with Google, whether you’re doing in perso

Money is always flowing in one direction or another. And in a business, it needs to flow in from the customers. It needs to flow through to the employees and to the suppliers and to everybody who is providing you with services. And there needs to be something left over at the end to take home. And when you’re able to make those things happen consistently, everybody’s just better off. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today’s episode, cohost Jay McFarland, and I will be discussing sales, profit, and personal income. Welcome Jay. Jay: Yeah. Thank you, David. I’m so excited, as usual, to talk about these topics that we discuss every podcast. I think that people often get caught up, especially small business owners, in one of these aspects, instead of having balance between all of them. And I feel like the one that they think about the most is sales. We have to drive sales. And if you’re not focusing on profitability in that regard, you could be generating all kinds of sales, but you’re not controlling your costs. And so ultimately those sales aren’t helping you. David: Yeah. Been there, done that. I think anybody, if you’ve started your own business, you’ve probably found yourself in this situation and gross sales is usually a good place for people to start. They’re thinking in terms of top line. Okay. I need to bring in as much as possible, which is true. You got to be bringing it in. But if you’re not paying attention to the rest of it, as you indicated, you could be selling a lot of stuff and losing money every day. And unless you’re keeping track of that, you’re not going to know it. I remember in the early days of my promotional products business, I would get together with my accountant once every 90 days. At the end of every quarter, actually the beginning of the following quarter, we would review the numbers for the previous quarter. And at that point, it’s too late to do anything about it. You feel like things are going well because you know, you’re selling stuff, but then you look at the expenses, the cost of goods, the cost of people, all your internal costs, your overhead costs. And you find out that you’re not making money on it. And 90 days later is too late. So once we got that in focus and we started doing it every month, reviewing what happened last month, where are our expenses too high and where are our gross sales too low? And which customers take up too much time and don’t generate enough revenue? Once we’re able to focus on the things that actually allow you to operate a profitable business, things got a lot better, a lot more quickly. And when we think in terms of these three things, sales, profit, and personal income, it’s almost like you’re starting here with the sales and then that generates whatever profit you have. And then after you’ve spent money on overhead and things, then you have some money to pay yourself, get some personal income going. But different businesses operate different ways. There are some business owners who are so focused on what am I going to bring in for myself that they may cut costs. They may short change people in terms of what they’re delivering in terms of product. They may choose less quality products. And so depending on where people’s focus is, determines where they’re going to be successful among those three things. Jay: Yeah. And I think you need balance. I mean, they’re all important. And so as you talked about looking at things monthly, I think having systems to identify and track each of these areas and have proper goals and benchmarks and reporting systems so that you can catch issues quickly. And pivot quickly is the only way you’re going to find balance in the force with these three things. David: Yeah, I agree. And I’ve operated businesses that had overhead that was too high. And that’s really hard. Because you feel like you’re trying to do everything right. And you’re trying to take care of the business and you’re trying to take care of your employees and you’re trying to take care of your customers. And if you don’t have the metrics right, it’s going to be pretty darn close to impossible to do that. And so finding the balance between the quality of product, which has to be high, the customer service, which has to be great. And the quality of client you’re interacting with, which also has to be great. When you get those three things lined up, you’re more likely to be successful, but if you’re not quite connected with some of those things, it’s a really uphill slog. Jay: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And we’ve kind of mentioned this in some other podcasts, but I see businesses when they need to increase their profitability. Their default is we need to increase revenue. And I think that can be misguided. Because in