
The Unstuck Church Podcast with Amy Anderson
462 episodes — Page 6 of 10
Ep 211Silver Bullets & Strategic Planning - Episode 211
There are no shortcuts to becoming a healthy, growing, thriving church. Instead, what we see in the churches experiencing the most success is a consistent determined commitment to ministry planning over an extended period of time. This week, Tony and Amy are making the case for strategic planning and "consistent strategic obedience" as the key to long-term health and growth. For the full episode transcript, links mentioned during the show, and to download the Leader Conversation Guide, visit this episode's Show Notes at theunstuckgroup.com/episode211. Join the Live Conversation on Social Media If you're listening on Wednesday, when the episode first releases, join the live conversation The Unstuck Group's team will be having on social media about this week's topic. We use hashtag #unstuckchurch on Twitter. Or you can join in on Facebook. Ask your questions and add your comments about the topic. If you're catching this episode later, you can still join in! Just tag us @unstuckgroup or use #unstuckchurch, and include [episode 211] in your post for reference.
Ep 210Assessing Your Ministry's Health Today - Episode 210
Many pastors want to jump right in to planning and implementing change. But before we can make any progress in moving forward, we need to get a grasp on where we are today. In Part 1 of our new "Strategic Planning for the Future" series, Tony and Amy are explaining the four key elements to assessing the health of your ministry today. For the full episode transcript, links mentioned during the show, and to download the Leader Conversation Guide, visit this episode's Show Notes at theunstuckgroup.com/episode210. Join the Live Conversation on Social Media If you're listening on Wednesday, when the episode first releases, join the live conversation The Unstuck Group's team will be having on social media about this week's topic. We use hashtag #unstuckchurch on Twitter. Or you can join in on Facebook. Ask your questions and add your comments about the topic. If you're catching this episode later, you can still join in! Just tag us @unstuckgroup or use #unstuckchurch, and include [episode 210] in your post for reference.
Ep 209New Data on Team Health & Performance - Episode 209
Given what our world has experienced over the last year and a half, we sensed now might be a good time to check in and see how teams are doing. So we surveyed over 1,100 church staff members from churches across the US, Canada, and even the United Kingdom. This week, Tony and Amy discuss their key findings from the data released in this quarter's special edition of The Unstuck Church Report. You can subscribe to the quarterly report for free, or, if you're subscribed to the podcast show notes, we send it out to you for free, as well. For the full episode transcript, visit this episode's Show Notes at theunstuckgroup.com/episode209. Join the Live Conversation on Social Media If you're listening on Wednesday, when the episode first releases, join the live conversation The Unstuck Group's team will be having on social media about this week's topic. We use hashtag #unstuckchurch on Twitter. Or you can join in on Facebook. If you're catching this episode later, you can still join in! Just tag us @unstuckgroup or use #unstuckchurch, and include [episode 209] in your post for reference.
Ep 208How to Build a Healthy Organizational Culture - Episode 208
A healthy culture can help turbocharge your vision and make progress toward the calling that God has for your church. On the other hand, an unhealthy team culture will actually erode your vision and derail your strategy. This week, listen in on a conversation between Tony Morgan and Lance Witt on building a healthy organizational culture, taken from our recent "Healthy & High-Performing Teams" masterclass. For the full episode transcript, links mentioned during the show, and to download the Leader Conversation Guide, visit this episode's Show Notes at theunstuckgroup.com/episode208. Join the Live Conversation on Social Media If you're listening on Wednesday, when the episode first releases, join the live conversation The Unstuck Group's team will be having on social media about this week's topic. We use hashtag #unstuckchurch on Twitter. Or you can join in on Facebook. Ask your questions and add your comments about the topic. If you're catching this episode later, you can still join in! Just tag us @unstuckgroup or use #unstuckchurch, and include [episode 208] in your post for reference.
Ep 207The Key Thing Most Church Teams Are Missing - Episode 207
The best teams are balanced teams. They aren't strong in one area and weak in another. They have an appropriate focus on both health and high-performance. This week, Tony and Amy explain an imbalance many teams experience related to their natural strengths, why it matters, and how to fix it. For the full episode transcript, links mentioned during the show, and to download the Leader Conversation Guide, visit this episode's Show Notes at theunstuckgroup.com/episode207. Join the Live Conversation on Social Media If you're listening on Wednesday, when the episode first releases, join the live conversation The Unstuck Group's team will be having on social media about this week's topic. We use hashtag #unstuckchurch on Twitter. Or you can join in on Facebook. Ask your questions and add your comments about the topic. If you're catching this episode later, you can still join in! Just tag us @unstuckgroup or use #unstuckchurch, and include [episode 207] in your post for reference.
Ep 206When Your Staff Doesn't Recommend Your Team - Episode 206
"On a scale of 0-10, how likely is it that you would recommend a friend or colleague to work on your church team?" You might be surprised by how the people on your staff team would answer that question. This week, Tony and Amy are diving into what a Net Promoter Score is and how you can use it to improve the health and performance of your team. For the full episode transcript, links mentioned during the show, and to download the Leader Conversation Guide, visit this episode's Show Notes at theunstuckgroup.com/episode206. Join the Live Conversation on Social Media If you're listening on Wednesday, when the episode first releases, join the live conversation The Unstuck Group's team will be having on social media about this week's topic. We use hashtag #unstuckchurch on Twitter. Or you can join in on Facebook. Ask your questions and add your comments about the topic. If you're catching this episode later, you can still join in! Just tag us @unstuckgroup or use #unstuckchurch, and include [episode 206] in your post for reference.
Ep 205How to Avoid the Fundamental Attribution Error - Episode 205
A lot of stuck churches have stuck teams. But healthy churches need leadership teams that are both healthy and high-performing. In this new podcast series, we'll be working through three of the signs that your team is stuck. This week, Tony and Amy are breaking down a recurring theme in team assessment results called the Fundamental Attribution Error, and explaining the effect it has on team health, team performance, and more. For the full episode transcript, links mentioned during the show, and to download the Leader Conversation Guide, visit this episode's Show Notes at theunstuckgroup.com/episode205. Upcoming Subscriber Event Are you a dedicated listener of our podcast? We'd love for you to leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. Then Tweet, DM, or email us ([email protected]) a screenshot of your review. We'll grab your email address and invite you to our exclusive Podcast Coffee Hour event on August 13.
Ep 204How to Re-Engage Your Church in the Mission - Episode 204
We recently hosted a virtual roundtable event called RE-ENGAGE: Carrying the Mission Forward in the New Normal where pastors from across North America got together to share the successes and challenges their churches are experiencing as they begin to reopen and re-engage. In this episode, you'll hear the replay of that roundtable conversation and gain insights in the areas of attendance, giving, serving, political division, soul care, and more. For the full episode transcript, links mentioned during the show, and to download the Leader Conversation Guide, visit this episode's Show Notes at theunstuckgroup.com/episode204. Upcoming Subscriber Event Are you a dedicated listener of our podcast? We'd love for you to leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. Then Tweet, DM, or email us ([email protected]) a screenshot of your review. We'll grab your email address and invite you to our exclusive Podcast Coffee Hour event on August 13.
Ep 203How to Change the World Without Exhausting Yourself - Episode 203
Oftentimes in the busyness of our roles, our days get filled with the things that are urgent. We spend a lot of our time trying to do all the work of ministry by ourselves. But in the end, this only serves to stunt the potential growth and impact of our church. This week, Tony and Amy were joined by Andrea Lathrop, Executive Pastor of Leadership Development at Oaks Church, to discuss the core shifts we need to make to develop and empower our leaders to do the ministry of the church. For the full episode transcript, links mentioned during the show, and to download the Leader Conversation Guide, visit this episode's Show Notes at theunstuckgroup.com/episode203. Upcoming Subscriber Event Are you a dedicated listener of our podcast? We'd love for you to leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. Then Tweet, DM, or email us ([email protected]) a screenshot of your review. We'll grab your email address and invite you to our exclusive Podcast Coffee Hour event on August 13.
Ep 202Why Churches Become Insider-Focused (and How to Fix It) - Episode 202
Most churches start with the same mission: reach new people for Jesus. But over time, this mission shifts from reaching the people on the outside to appeasing the people on the inside. Once this shift occurs, the church is headed toward decline. This week, Tony sat down with Michael Moore, the Executive Pastor at Faith Chapel and consultant at The Unstuck Group, to discuss the ways his church has fought to overcome this internal-focus tendency, and how other church leaders can do the same. For the full episode transcript, links mentioned during the show, and to download the Leader Conversation Guide, visit this episode's Show Notes at theunstuckgroup.com/episode202. Join the Live Conversation on Social Media If you're listening on Wednesday, when the episode first releases, join the live conversation The Unstuck Group's team will be having on social media about this week's topic. We use hashtag #unstuckchurch on Twitter. Or you can join in on Facebook.
Ep 201The Declining Side of the Lifecycle - Episode 201
Out of the 15,000+ churches that have taken our Unstuck Church Assessment, about 85% self-assessed as being on the declining side of the lifecycle. So if you find yourself in one of these phases, you're not alone. This week, in the final part of our Ask This, Not That series, Tony and Amy are discussing the declining side of the lifecycle: maintenance, preservation, and life support. We'll break down the characteristics of each of these phases, explain why churches often find themselves here, and give next steps for getting back to health. For the full episode transcript, links mentioned during the show, and to download the Leader Conversation Guide, visit this episode's Show Notes at theunstuckgroup.com/episode201. Join the Live Conversation on Social Media If you're listening on Wednesday, when the episode first releases, join the live conversation The Unstuck Group's team will be having on social media about this week's topic. We use hashtag #unstuckchurch on Twitter. Or you can join in on Facebook.
Ep 200Behind-the-Scenes with the Unstuck Team - Episode 200
Today, we're celebrating, because our podcast is officially 200 episodes old. They grow up so fast! To celebrate this special occasion, Amy and I decided to take a quick pause from our current series and "pull back the curtain" of the podcast. You'll get to meet the full team of Unstuck rockstars that help us record, edit, publish, and share this podcast every single week. We'll also share our insights and takeaways for leaders who may be exploring all things digital ministry and content creation. Upcoming Subscriber Event Are you a dedicated listener of our podcast? We'd love for you to leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. Then Tweet, DM, or email us ([email protected]) a screenshot of your review. We'll grab your email address and invite you to our exclusive Podcast Coffee Hour event on August 13. For the full episode transcript, visit this episode's Show Notes at theunstuckgroup.com/episode200.
Ep 199Experiencing Sustained Health: The Pinnacle of the Lifecycle - Episode 199
If we're winning, why would we change? Churches in sustained health are often wondering how they can preserve what's working, when they should be asking what they need to change. In this week's episode, Tony and Amy discuss why healthy churches still need to embrace change, explain the three multiplication strategies every healthy church needs, and offer a reflection exercise for your team. For the full episode transcript, links mentioned during the show, and to download the Leader Conversation Guide, visit this episode's Show Notes at theunstuckgroup.com/episode199. Join the Live Conversation on Social Media If you're listening on Wednesday, when the episode first releases, join the live conversation The Unstuck Group's team will be having on social media about this week's topic. We use hashtag #unstuckchurch on Twitter. Or you can join in on Facebook. Ask your questions and add your comments about the topic. If you're catching this episode later, you can still join in! Just tag us @unstuckgroup or use #unstuckchurch, and include [episode 199] in your post for reference.
Ep 198The Growing Side of the Church Lifecycle - Episode 198
Most organizations start, grow, thrive, lose momentum, decline… and eventually end. The same is true for most churches. In our new series, "Ask This, Not That," we're exploring the seven phases of the church lifecycle: launch, momentum growth, strategic growth, sustained health, maintenance, preservation, and life support. This week, we'll unpack the first three phases and discuss the questions many church leaders are asking in these seasons versus the questions they should be asking. For the full episode transcript, links mentioned during the show, and to download the Leader Conversation Guide, visit this episode's Show Notes at theunstuckgroup.com/episode198. Join the Live Conversation on Social Media If you're listening on Wednesday, when the episode first releases, join the live conversation The Unstuck Group's team will be having on social media about this week's topic. We use hashtag #unstuckchurch on Twitter. Or you can join in on Facebook. Ask your questions and add your comments about the topic. If you're catching this episode later, you can still join in! Just tag us @unstuckgroup or use #unstuckchurch, and include [episode 198] in your post for reference.
Ep 197Re-Engage Your People in GIVING - Episode 197
When it comes to giving and stewardship, you need to remind people what you want for them rather than what you want from them. In the final part of our re-engagement series, Tony sat down with Bronson Crawford, the Stewardship Director at Athens Church in Athens, Georgia. Even before Covid, they were thinking intentionally and getting creative when it comes to engaging their congregation with the topic of stewardship. Bronson shared five strategies that he believes set their church up for sustained financial health before, during, and after the pandemic. There are two solid action steps and one key takeaway for churches that you won't want to miss. For the full episode transcript, links mentioned during the show, and to download the Leader Conversation Guide, visit this episode's Show Notes at theunstuckgroup.com/episode197. Join the Live Conversation on Social Media If you're listening on Wednesday, when the episode first releases, join the live conversation The Unstuck Group's team will be having on social media about this week's topic. We use hashtag #unstuckchurch on Twitter. Or you can join in on Facebook. Ask your questions and add your comments about the topic. If you're catching this episode later, you can still join in! Just tag us @unstuckgroup or use #unstuckchurch, and include [episode 197] in your post for reference.
Ep 195Re-Engage Your People in WEEKEND SERVICES - Episode 195
The days of us turning on the "We're open" light and waiting for people to show up for church are behind us. Reopening and re-engaging your congregation has likely already been more challenging than expected. We need to engage our mission field and compel them to come (see Luke 14:23). There are no real experts in this season, but churches in some parts of the country are a month or two ahead of the learning curve. In Part 2, we share Crossroads Church's story and a few practical takeaways to help you re-engage people in weekend services. For the full episode transcript, links mentioned during the show, and to download the Leader Conversation Guide, visit this episode's Show Notes at theunstuckgroup.com/episode195. Join the Live Conversation on Social Media If you're listening on Wednesday, when the episode first releases, join the live conversation The Unstuck Group's team will be having on social media about this week's topic. We use hashtag #unstuckchurch on Twitter. Or you can join in on Facebook. Ask your questions and add your comments about the topic. If you're catching this episode later, you can still join in! Just tag us @unstuckgroup or use #unstuckchurch, and include [episode 195] in your post for reference.
Ep 194Re-Engage Your People in SERVING - Episode 194
On the other side... You've been waiting for this day for months. Instead of talking about how ministry strategy needs to shift because of the pandemic, you're starting to talk about what ministry will look like on the other side of it. But if you're like most of the pastors we're talking to, reopening and re-engaging your congregation has already been more challenging than expected. There are no real experts in this season, but churches in some parts of the country are a month or two ahead of the learning curve. So, in this NEW 4-PART SERIES, we're sharing interviews with pastors who are leading the way in navigating the reopening challenges ahead of us all. In Part 1, we share Quest Church's story and a few practical takeaways to help you re-engage people in serving roles. For the full episode transcript, links mentioned during the show, and to download the Leader Conversation Guide, visit this episode's Show Notes at theunstuckgroup.com/episode194. Join the Live Conversation on Social Media If you're listening on Wednesday, when the episode first releases, join the live conversation The Unstuck Group's team will be having on social media about this week's topic. We use hashtag #unstuckchurch on Twitter. Or you can join in on Facebook. Ask your questions and add your comments about the topic. If you're catching this episode later, you can still join in! Just tag us @unstuckgroup or use #unstuckchurch, and include [episode 194] in your post for reference.
Ep 193New Benchmarks to Help You Make Ministry Decisions - Episode 193
Giving and attendance—If you were used to measuring church health only by tracking giving and attendance, then the last year has been very confusing. It's not an overstatement to say most pastors have been struggling to get a pulse on the health of their ministries. But truth be told, even before the pandemic most churches didn't know what to track beyond giving and attendance. With the Vital Signs Assessment, we track data on all the metrics we encourage church leaders to track, and then with The Unstuck Church Report, we open up that data to pastors and share the trends and insights we are noticing. You can subscribe to that quarterly report for free, or, if you're subscribed to the podcast show notes, we send it out to you for free, as well. Each quarter, Tony and Amy dedicate one podcast episode to unpacking a few of the standout trends from the new report. Listen now for new insights from the last 12 months of data. For the full episode transcript, links mentioned during the show, and to download the Leader Conversation Guide, visit this episode's Show Notes at theunstuckgroup.com/episode193. Join the Live Conversation on Social Media If you're listening on Wednesday, when the episode first releases, join the live conversation The Unstuck Group's team will be having on social media about this week's topic. We use hashtag #unstuckchurch on Twitter. Or you can join in on Facebook. Ask your questions and add your comments about the topic. If you're catching this episode later, you can still join in! Just tag us @unstuckgroup or use #unstuckchurch, and include [episode 193] in your post for reference.
Ep 192How to Lead Meetings People Look Forward to Attending - Episode 192
No one TRIES to lead ineffective meetings, but any leader can get a bit lazy. The 9 key practices we share in this episode aren't rocket science, but they are things we see many church leaders just letting slip. When a team is clear on direction and wins, and puts these principles into practice in their meetings, people actually like meetings. They help us clarify our work and move things forward. They turn into a worthy investment of our time rather than an energy drain. In this episode, Tony and Amy wrap-up this series by sharing how you can corral one of the biggest time-wasters on any team. For the full episode transcript, links mentioned during the show, and to download the Leader Conversation Guide, visit this episode's Show Notes at theunstuckgroup.com/episode192. Join the Live Conversation on Social Media If you're listening on Wednesday, when the episode first releases, join the live conversation The Unstuck Group's team will be having on social media about this week's topic. We use hashtag #unstuckchurch on Twitter. Or you can join in on Facebook. Ask your questions and add your comments about the topic. If you're catching this episode later, you can still join in! Just tag us @unstuckgroup or use #unstuckchurch, and include [episode 192] in your post for reference.
Ep 1917 Hacks for Gaining Traction on Priorities - Episode 191
What drives leaders completely crazy? Lack of follow-through. It's honestly one of the most common frustrations we hear from church leaders. They invest time, prayer, dreaming, talking, and planning around what God has next for their ministry, but then nothing happens. There's no follow-through. A distraction, or a crisis—something that feels more urgent—consistently derails the leader and the team from executing on the real priorities. Sound familiar? In Part 3 of this series on Creating Alignment, Tony and Amy discuss seven hacks leaders can use to align the team around executing on the ministry priorities. For the full episode transcript, links mentioned during the show, and to download the Leader Conversation Guide, visit this episode's Show Notes at theunstuckgroup.com/episode191. Join the Live Conversation on Social Media If you're listening on Wednesday, when the episode first releases, join the live conversation The Unstuck Group's team will be having on social media about this week's topic. We use hashtag #unstuckchurch on Twitter. Or you can join in on Facebook. Ask your questions and add your comments about the topic. If you're catching this episode later, you can still join in! Just tag us @unstuckgroup or use #unstuckchurch, and include [episode 191] in your post for reference.
Ep 190How to Determine Your Span-of-Care - Episode 190
Are you leading too many direct reports? A senior leader's span of care can significantly impact a team's ability to clarify roles and maintain alignment. Part of span of care is giving direction related to the mission, strategy, and priorities of your church, but the other piece of it is the discipleship of the people on your team. Many leaders think that by directly trying to lead as many people as possible, more people will be directly connected to the mission. But when your span of care gets stretched too wide, you naturally have less time to invest with each person on your team. So, what is the RIGHT number of people for you to personally lead? In Part 2 of this series on Creating Alignment, Tony and Amy give you some really practical ways to think about getting your span of care to its healthiest place—for both you and for the ministry. For the full episode transcript, links mentioned during the show, and to download the Leader Conversation Guide, visit this episode's Show Notes at theunstuckgroup.com/episode190. Join the Live Conversation on Social Media If you're listening on Wednesday, when the episode first releases, join the live conversation The Unstuck Group's team will be having on social media about this week's topic. We use hashtag #unstuckchurch on Twitter. Or you can join in on Facebook. Ask your questions and add your comments about the topic. If you're catching this episode later, you can still join in! Just tag us @unstuckgroup or use #unstuckchurch, and include [episode 190] in your post for reference.
Ep 189How To Define Reality For Your Team - Episode 189
How do you define reality for your team and why is it important? In 2019, 85% of churches that took the Unstuck Church Assessment self-identified as being in the "declining" stage of the life cycle. Now, having survived 2020, more churches than ever are feeling stuck. So we're kicking off a four-part series on how to create alignment in your ministry strategy and among your staff and volunteers. Join Tony Morgan and Amy Anderson on this week's podcast episode for practical examples and strategies for defining reality on your team. For the full episode transcript, links mentioned during the show, and to download the Leader Conversation Guide, visit this episode's Show Notes at theunstuckgroup.com/episode189. Join the Live Conversation on Social Media If you're listening on Wednesday, when the episode first releases, join the live conversation The Unstuck Group's team will be having on social media about this week's topic. We use hashtag #unstuckchurch on Twitter. Or you can join in on Facebook. Ask your questions and add your comments about the topic. If you're catching this episode later, you can still join in! Just tag us @unstuckgroup or use #unstuckchurch, and include [episode 189] in your post for reference.
Ep 18810 Questions You're Asking About Digital Ministry But Wish You Weren't - Episode 188
"Do we have to embrace digital ministry?" "Do churches need to mimic the business world when it comes to online options?" "Do we really have to hire new roles for our staff team?" We've been getting a lot of questions about digital ministry strategy now that we're a year into the changes that COVID accelerated. The initial changes churches were forced to make are being reevaluated as many places open back up and in-person gathering is an option again. In this week's episode, Tony Morgan and Amy Anderson sit down to talk through ten questions on the digital ministry you're probably asking but wish you weren't. For the full episode transcript, links mentioned during the show, and to download the Leader Conversation Guide, visit this episode's Show Notes at theunstuckgroup.com/episode188. Join the Live Conversation on Social Media If you're listening on Wednesday, when the episode first releases, join the live conversation The Unstuck Group's team will be having on social media about this week's topic. We use hashtag #unstuckchurch on Twitter. Or you can join in on Facebook. Ask your questions and add your comments about the topic. If you're catching this episode later, you can still join in! Just tag us @unstuckgroup or use #unstuckchurch, and include [episode 188] in your post for reference.
Ep 187How Sun Valley Church is Building Their Digital Strategy - Episode 187
How important is data? What role should data play in your ministry strategy? What should you measure? In this week's episode of The Unstuck Church Podcast, we sit down again with the Sun Valley Church team to dig into the practical ways they use data to inform their ministry strategies and how churches can leverage data to help reach more people with the message of Jesus. For the full episode transcript, links mentioned during the show, and to download the Leader Conversation Guide, visit this episode's Show Notes at theunstuckgroup.com/episode187. Join the Live Conversation on Social Media If you're listening on Wednesday, when the episode first releases, join the live conversation The Unstuck Group's team will be having on social media about this week's topic. We use hashtag #unstuckchurch on Twitter. Or you can join in on Facebook. Ask your questions and add your comments about the topic. If you're catching this episode later, you can still join in! Just tag us @unstuckgroup or use #unstuckchurch, and include [episode 187] in your post for reference.
Ep 186How Sun Valley Church Is Building Their Digital Strategy - Episode 186
Where do you find the right person to lead your digital ministry? What should your digital ministry focus on? How do you reach new people online? For months, we've been coaching churches to find a leader for their digital ministry strategies and in this week's episode we're sitting down with a church that has done exactly that. Paul Alexander serves as the Executive Pastor at Sun Valley Community Church, a multisite church in Phoenix and Mika Casey serves as their Digital Strategies Lead Director. In this week's episode, we look at some practical examples of what digital ministry strategy looks like. For the full episode transcript, links mentioned during the show, and to download the Leader Conversation Guide, visit this episode's Show Notes at theunstuckgroup.com/episode186. Join the Live Conversation on Social Media If you're listening on Wednesday, when the episode first releases, join the live conversation The Unstuck Group's team will be having on social media about this week's topic. We use hashtag #unstuckchurch on Twitter. Or you can join in on Facebook. Ask your questions and add your comments about the topic. If you're catching this episode later, you can still join in! Just tag us @unstuckgroup or use #unstuckchurch, and include [episode 186] in your post for reference.
Ep 1853 Keys To Structure Your Team For Future Ministry Impact - Episode 185
How can you maximize your ministry impact? Your team plays a big role. We've heard from a lot of churches that have questions about how to structure their team. They're re-evaluating what roles they need to have on their staff team and looking for clarity on how to structure their leadership team moving forward. If you're wondering how to structure your team to be healthy and high performing, you're in the right place. In this week's episode, Tony Morgan is joined by Amy Anderson and Michael Moore for a practical conversation around how church leaders can strategically structure their team for health and growth. For the full episode transcript, links mentioned during the show, and to download the Leader Conversation Guide, visit this episode's Show Notes at theunstuckgroup.com/episode185. Join the Live Conversation on Social Media If you're listening on Wednesday, when the episode first releases, join the live conversation The Unstuck Group's team will be having on social media about this week's topic. We use hashtag #unstuckchurch on Twitter. Or you can join in on Facebook. Ask your questions and add your comments about the topic. If you're catching this episode later, you can still join in! Just tag us @unstuckgroup or use #unstuckchurch, and include [episode 185] in your post for reference.
Ep 184Top 5 Mistakes Multisite Churches Make in Staffing & Structure (And How to Avoid Them) - Episode 184
What are the common mistakes multisite churches make in staffing and structure? Now that the church has embraced multisite for over 20 years, there are predictable outcomes that we see related to how churches design and structure their multisite churches. Some of those outcomes are good and they help the church grow and expand in healthy ways. And some of those outcomes lead to what we have started to refer to as a church being "multi stuck". In this week's episode, Tony Morgan and Amy Anderson dig into the top mistakes multisite churches make in staffing and structure and how to avoid them. For the full episode transcript, links mentioned during the show, and to download the Leader Conversation Guide, visit this episode's Show Notes at theunstuckgroup.com/episode184. Join the Live Conversation on Social Media If you're listening on Wednesday, when the episode first releases, join the live conversation The Unstuck Group's team will be having on social media about this week's topic. We use hashtag #unstuckchurch on Twitter. Or you can join in on Facebook. Ask your questions and add your comments about the topic. If you're catching this episode later, you can still join in! Just tag us @unstuckgroup or use #unstuckchurch, and include [episode 184] in your post for reference.
Ep 18310 Crucial Questions to Ask If You're Considering a Church Merger - Episode 183
What do church mergers have to do with multisite strategy? And why is this such a critical conversation right now? Pre-COVID 20% of churches who took our Unstuck Church Assessment identified that they were in the "life support" stage. For many struggling churches, merging with a healthy, thriving church is their best option. And for larger, healthy churches, merging can be a way to expand their ministry impact. But before you consider a merger, there are a couple of critical conversations you need to have. In this week's episode, Tony Morgan and Amy Anderson unpack the 10 crucial questions church leaders need to consider before merging. For the full episode transcript, links mentioned during the show, and to download the Leader Conversation Guide, visit this episode's Show Notes at theunstuckgroup.com/episode183. Join the Live Conversation on Social Media If you're listening on Wednesday, when the episode first releases, join the live conversation The Unstuck Group's team will be having on social media about this week's topic. We use hashtag #unstuckchurch on Twitter. Or you can join in on Facebook. Ask your questions and add your comments about the topic. If you're catching this episode later, you can still join in! Just tag us @unstuckgroup or use #unstuckchurch, and include [episode 183] in your post for reference.
Ep 182The Future Of Multisite Strategy - Episode 182
What are the common challenges that multisite churches face? Should your church consider going multisite? Multisite churches have come increasingly popular. 20 years ago, there were only 200 multisite churches across the country. In 2019, there were more than 5,000. The pandemic has also contributed to a growing interest in multisite strategy as churches consider how to grow and reach more people. Large churches with multiple smaller venues – that are closer to where people live and that offer multiple options for service times – will be better positioned for a post-COVID world than trying to gather larger crowds in the same space at the same time. In this week's episode Tony Morgan and Amy Anderson dig into the common concerns church leaders have about going multisite and core challenges multisite churches face. For the full episode transcript, links mentioned during the show, and to download the Leader Conversation Guide, visit this episode's Show Notes at theunstuckgroup.com/episode182. Join the Live Conversation on Social Media If you're listening on Wednesday, when the episode first releases, join the live conversation The Unstuck Group's team will be having on social media about this week's topic. We use hashtag #unstuckchurch on Twitter. Or you can join in on Facebook. Ask your questions and add your comments about the topic. If you're catching this episode later, you can still join in! Just tag us @unstuckgroup or use #unstuckchurch, and include [episode 182] in your post for reference.
Ep 181Key Data & Trends from 9 Months of Pandemic Ministry - Episode 181
What should churches be measuring right now? What's been happening across churches over the last 9 months of doing ministry in the midst of the pandemic? In this week's episode of The Unstuck Church Podcast, Tony Morgan and Amy Anderson unpack key findings from The Unstuck Church Report and dig into trends in giving, staffing, online engagement, and reaching new people. For the full episode transcript, links mentioned during the show, and to download the Leader Conversation Guide, visit this episode's Show Notes at theunstuckgroup.com/episode181. Join the Live Conversation on Social Media If you're listening on Wednesday, when the episode first releases, join the live conversation The Unstuck Group's team will be having on social media about this week's topic. We use hashtag #unstuckchurch on Twitter. Or you can join in on Facebook. Ask your questions and add your comments about the topic. If you're catching this episode later, you can still join in! Just tag us @unstuckgroup or use #unstuckchurch, and include [episode 181] in your post for reference.
Ep 1805 Practices For Blessing & Reaching People Outside The Church - Episode 180
How do you equip your congregation to bless their neighbors? How can you create a culture at your church where you're developing meaningful friendships with people outside the faith? Barna's research indicates more than six in 10 non-Christians and lapsed Christians say they would be open to talking about faith matters with someone who listens without judgment. In this week's episode of The Unstuck Church Podcast, Tony Morgan and Dave Ferguson dig into 5 practical practices you can use to bless and reach people outside the church and outside the faith. For the full episode transcript, links mentioned during the show, and to download the Leader Conversation Guide, visit this episode's Show Notes at theunstuckgroup.com/episode180. Join the Live Conversation on Social Media If you're listening on Wednesday, when the episode first releases, join the live conversation The Unstuck Group's team will be having on social media about this week's topic. We use hashtag #unstuckchurch on Twitter. Or you can join in on Facebook. Ask your questions and add your comments about the topic. If you're catching this episode later, you can still join in! Just tag us @unstuckgroup or use #unstuckchurch, and include [episode 180] in your post for reference.
Ep 179How To Plan for the Future in Uncertain Times - Episode 179
How do you plan for the future of your church when the future is so uncertain? After surviving the incredible disruption of 2020, all of us are looking for a clear path forward. The good news is you don't need to wait for certainty to get clear on your church's mission, vision, and strategic plan. In this week's episode of The Unstuck Church Podcast, Tony Morgan and Amy Anderson dig into 5 key questions you can start answering today to get clarity. For the full episode transcript, links mentioned during the show, and to download the Leader Conversation Guide, visit this episode's Show Notes at theunstuckgroup.com/episode179. Join the Live Conversation on Social Media If you're listening on Wednesday, when the episode first releases, join the live conversation The Unstuck Group's team will be having on social media about this week's topic. We use hashtag #unstuckchurch on Twitter. Or you can join in on Facebook. Ask your questions and add your comments about the topic. If you're catching this episode later, you can still join in! Just tag us @unstuckgroup or use #unstuckchurch, and include [episode 179] in your post for reference.
Ep 1783 Key Financial Strategies for Your Church in the New Reality - Ep 178
What should churches invest in financially? 6 out of 10 churches are doing better than before and giving is up. But 4 out of 10 churches have, understandably, experienced a financial decline in the last year. In this week's episode of The Unstuck Church Podcast, Tony Morgan and Amy Anderson unpack 3 key investment strategies for churches in the new reality. For the full episode transcript, links mentioned during the show, and to download the Leader Conversation Guide, visit this episode's Show Notes at theunstuckgroup.com/episode178. Join the Live Conversation on Social Media If you're listening on Wednesday, when the episode first releases, join the live conversation The Unstuck Group's team will be having on social media about this week's topic. We use hashtag #unstuckchurch on Twitter. Or you can join in on Facebook. Ask your questions and add your comments about the topic. If you're catching this episode later, you can still join in! Just tag us @unstuckgroup or use #unstuckchurch, and include [episode 178] in your post for reference.
Ep 1773 New Keys to Staffing and Structure for a Hybrid Church - Episode 177
How do you structure your team for a hybrid church model? Many churches are wondering what roles they need on their team, what to measure, and how to align their staff around a hybrid church model with both online and in-person ministry strategies. In this week's episode of The Unstuck Church Podcast, Tony Morgan and Amy Anderson unpack the 3 new keys to staffing and structure for a hybrid church. For the full episode transcript, links mentioned during the show, and to download the Leader Conversation Guide, visit this episode's Show Notes at theunstuckgroup.com/episode177. Join the Live Conversation on Social Media If you're listening on Wednesday, when the episode first releases, join the live conversation The Unstuck Group's team will be having on social media about this week's topic. We use hashtag #unstuckchurch on Twitter. Or you can join in on Facebook. Ask your questions and add your comments about the topic. If you're catching this episode later, you can still join in! Just tag us @unstuckgroup or use #unstuckchurch, and include [episode 177] in your post for reference.
Ep 176Your Church Survived 2020, Now What? - Episode 176
You did it. You survived one of the most disruptive, unpredictable years we've ever seen. And your church survived too. But the stop-gap strategies that helped churches stay afloat through the last year are not the strategies that will set them up for long-term health and growth. In this week's episode of The Unstuck Church Podcast, Tony Morgan and Amy Anderson unpack the foundational principles of building a hybrid church and what the post-covid church can look like. For the full episode transcript, links mentioned during the show, and to download the Leader Conversation Guide, visit this episode's Show Notes at theunstuckgroup.com/episode176. Join the Live Conversation on Social Media If you're listening on Wednesday, when the episode first releases, join the live conversation The Unstuck Group's team will be having on social media about this week's topic. We use hashtag #unstuckchurch on Twitter. Or you can join in on Facebook. Ask your questions and add your comments about the topic. If you're catching this episode later, you can still join in! Just tag us @unstuckgroup or use #unstuckchurch, and include [episode 176] in your post for reference.
Ep 175What Happened In 2020 - Episode 175
2020 was a year of unprecedented change and unwanted tensions and an unknown future. As we welcome 2021 and look back at the year behind us, Tony Morgan shares some insight into what he's grateful for at The Unstuck Group and a challenge for churches moving forward.
Ep 174The Most Listened To Conversation Of 2020 - Episode 174
What strategic shifts do churches need to make due to the coronavirus? This week, we take a look back at our most popular conversation from 2020 and dig into the practical ways that churches need to change their ministry strategies to continue not just survive but thrive in the new normal and continue making disciples.
Ep 1734 Steps to Re-Align Your Team for Digital Ministry - Episode 173
How do you structure your team for a hybrid church model? How do you staff for a digital-first ministry strategy? Many churches are struggling to optimize and align their staff team around a hybrid church model and make the mental shift from being a church with online options to being an online organization with in-person options. In this week's episode of The Unstuck Church Podcast, Tony Morgan and Amy Anderson unpack the 4 steps church leaders need to take to align their team for digital ministry. For the full episode transcript, links mentioned during the show, and to download the Leader Conversation Guide, visit this episode's Show Notes at theunstuckgroup.com/episode173. Join the Live Conversation on Social Media If you're listening on Wednesday, when the episode first releases, join the live conversation The Unstuck Group's team will be having on social media about this week's topic. We use hashtag #unstuckchurch on Twitter. Or you can join in on Facebook. Ask your questions and add your comments about the topic. If you're catching this episode later, you can still join in! Just tag us @unstuckgroup or use #unstuckchurch, and include [episode 173] in your post for reference.
Ep 172How to Measure Online Disciple Making - Episode 172
One of the biggest questions we've been asked since the pandemic hit is: What should we be measuring now? So this week we're going to walk through what to measure and what matters in the world of online disciple making. There are a lot of easy-to-see metrics clamoring for your attention. But at the end of the day, there is a simple principle that will help you navigate what to measure regardless of the platform or channel: Everything you measure should help you make better decisions. For the full episode transcript, links mentioned during the show, and to download the Leader Conversation Guide, visit this episode's Show Notes at theunstuckgroup.com/episode172. Join the Live Conversation on Social Media If you're listening on Wednesday, when the episode first releases, join the live conversation The Unstuck Group's team will be having on social media about this week's topic. We use hashtag #unstuckchurch on Twitter. Or you can join in on Facebook. Ask your questions and add your comments about the topic. If you're catching this episode later, you can still join in! Just tag us @unstuckgroup or use #unstuckchurch, and include [episode 172] in your post for reference.
Ep 171How to Make Disciples Online - Episode 171
How do you make disciples online? If you want your church to thrive in 2021, you need to figure out how to both reach new people and engage with your current congregation digitally. At this point, 10 months into the pandemic, many churches are seeing less and less engagement online. In order to create a strong, successful digital ministry strategy, you need to understand the spiritual journey and how to reach people where they are. In this episode, Tony Morgan and Amy Anderson share what we're learning about how to just that. For the full episode transcript, links mentioned during the show, and to download the Leader Conversation Guide, visit this episode's Show Notes at theunstuckgroup.com/episode171. Join the Live Conversation on Social Media If you're listening on Wednesday, when the episode first releases, join the live conversation The Unstuck Group's team will be having on social media about this week's topic. We use hashtag #unstuckchurch on Twitter. Or you can join in on Facebook. Ask your questions and add your comments about the topic. If you're catching this episode later, you can still join in! Just tag us @unstuckgroup or use #unstuckchurch, and include [episode 171] in your post for reference.
Ep 170Best Practices for Church Boards - Episode 170
What does it take to create an effective church board? Over the last 11 years of working with churches, we've found that church governance is a key difference between healthy, growing churches and churches that are stuck or in decline. In this week's episode, Tony Morgan and Sean Bublitz dig into the best practices for selecting board members and structuring your church board to be healthy and effective. For the full episode transcript, links mentioned during the show, and to download the Leader Conversation Guide, visit this episode's Show Notes at theunstuckgroup.com/episode170. Join the Live Conversation on Social Media If you're listening on Wednesday, when the episode first releases, join the live conversation The Unstuck Group's team will be having on social media about this week's topic. We use hashtag #unstuckchurch on Twitter. Or you can join in on Facebook. Ask your questions and add your comments about the topic. If you're catching this episode later, you can still join in! Just tag us @unstuckgroup or use #unstuckchurch, and include [episode 170] in your post for reference.
Ep 1695 Key Roles of an Effective Church Board - Episode 169
What makes an effective church board? What roles should they take on and what's the responsibility of the staff team? After working with close to 500 churches over the last 11 years, here's what we've learned are common mistakes church board's make and the 5 key roles they need to own. For the full episode transcript, links mentioned during the show, and to download the Leader Conversation Guide, visit this episode's Show Notes at theunstuckgroup.com/episode169. Join the Live Conversation on Social Media If you're listening on Wednesday, when the episode first releases, join the live conversation The Unstuck Group's team will be having on social media about this week's topic. We use hashtag #unstuckchurch on Twitter. Or you can join in on Facebook. Ask your questions and add your comments about the topic. If you're catching this episode later, you can still join in! Just tag us @unstuckgroup or use #unstuckchurch, and include [episode 169] in your post for reference.
Ep 168How COVID-19 Changed What Your Team Needs from You as the Leader - Episode 168
The demands and expectations for leading ministry seem to be surging. We're all changing how we do ministry, serve people in our communities, and care for the sick. The workload has grown exponentially, and none of us can do it all. You, and the people on your team, are only human. In last week's episode, we talked about how pastors can stay emotionally healthy as they are under greater pressure and being criticized more than ever. The order of these two episodes matter—you need to listen to Episode 167 first. In this second part, we're talking about how what your team needs from you as their leader has changed, and how pastors can help their teams stay healthy in a turbulent season. For the full episode transcript, links mentioned during the show, and to download the Leader Conversation Guide, visit this episode's Show Notes at theunstuckgroup.com/episode168. Join the Live Conversation on Social Media If you're listening on Wednesday, when the episode first releases, join the live conversation The Unstuck Group's team will be having on social media about this week's topic. We use hashtag #unstuckchurch on Twitter. Or you can join in on Facebook. Ask your questions and add your comments about the topic. If you're catching this episode later, you can still join in! Just tag us @unstuckgroup or use #unstuckchurch, and include [episode 168] in your post for reference.
Ep 167Lance Witt on Prioritizing Your Own Health While Leading Change, Facing Pressure & Dealing with Criticism - Episode 167
You're under greater pressure than ever… and being criticized more than ever… how do pastors stay emotionally healthy right now? Pastors are telling us they feel like they just can't make a right call. It doesn't matter which decision they're making—they've got people criticizing them from every angle. It's been an exhausting year, and it's likely you're running on reserves. We hope this episode helps you take a deep breath. Amy Anderson interviews Lance Witt on some shifts in your mindset and some practical adjustments in your schedule and habits that will help you take the reins again on the care of your own soul and become the healthy leader God wants you to be. For the full episode transcript, links mentioned during the show, and to download the Leader Conversation Guide, visit this episode's Show Notes at theunstuckgroup.com/episode167. Join the Live Conversation on Social Media If you're listening on Wednesday, when the episode first releases, join the live conversation The Unstuck Group's team will be having on social media about this week's topic. We use hashtag #unstuckchurch on Twitter. Or you can join in on Facebook. Ask your questions and add your comments about the topic. If you're catching this episode later, you can still join in! Just tag us @unstuckgroup or use #unstuckchurch, and include [episode 167] in your post for reference.
Ep 166Nona Jones on Engaging People in Digital Spaces, and Jeff Brodie on the Digital Shift at Connexus Church - Episode 166
What if we had to rethink the importance of getting new people to a building or a program... for the long haul? As part of a recent Unstuck Masterclass, Tony had the opportunity to interview Nona Jones and Jeff Brodie on the shift that's happening from engaging new people with in-person services to engaging them online. Nona serves as the head of Facebook's faith-based partnerships, and Jeff is the lead pastor at Connexus Church in Barrie, Ontario. Nona summed up the situation we all found ourselves in back in the spring... and if we're honest... the pull most churches are feeling strongly right now: "Somewhere along the line of the history of the Church, we've come to define church as a place you go or a program you watch, and because of that, people have been slow to adapt to anything other than strategies that get people to a building. When you think about how social technology has been used thus far, it has predominantly been for marketing to get people to the building." Nona and Jeff each brought their unique perspectives as innovative leaders in local churches on how we can shift to engage and reach people in a digital culture. So in this episode, we're sharing portions of Tony's interviews with each of them that we think will give you some practical handles for doing so at your church as well. For the full episode transcript, links mentioned during the show, and to download the Leader Conversation Guide, visit this episode's Show Notes at theunstuckgroup.com/episode166. Join the Live Conversation on Social Media If you're listening on Wednesday, when the episode first releases, join the live conversation The Unstuck Group's team will be having on social media about this week's topic. We use hashtag #unstuckchurch on Twitter. Or you can join in on Facebook. Ask your questions and add your comments about the topic. If you're catching this episode later, you can still join in! Just tag us @unstuckgroup or use #unstuckchurch, and include [episode 166] in your post for reference.
Ep 165Trends in Online Viewing, In-Person Attendance, Staffing, and Digital Strategies - Episode 165
Approximately 1 staff person for every 18 people showing up for in-person church attendance... Approximately 1 staff person in dedicated roles responsible for digital ministry strategy for every 1,273 online viewers... We found some interesting—and some alarming—data points in our most recent survey on the state of digital ministry strategy. In collaboration with Blackbaud, we completed another survey in late September, and more than 260 churches participated with good representation across the church size spectrum. The questions focused on how churches are adapting to digital ministry strategies, particularly in the areas of weekend services, online viewing patterns, staffing, outreach, etc. We found some significant differences from the trends churches were reporting back in the early part of the year. In this episode, Tony and Amy dig into what the data is showing us about where churches stand today in regards to their digital strategies, how they reach new people, and how they staff and structure for ministry. For the full episode transcript, links mentioned during the show, and to download a copy of The Unstuck Church Report, visit this episode's Show Notes at theunstuckgroup.com/episode165. Join the Live Conversation on Social Media If you're listening on Wednesday, when the episode first releases, join the live conversation The Unstuck Group's team will be having on social media about this week's topic. We use hashtag #unstuckchurch on Twitter. Or you can join in on Facebook. Ask your questions and add your comments about the topic. If you're catching this episode later, you can still join in! Just tag us @unstuckgroup or use #unstuckchurch, and include [episode 165] in your post for reference.
Ep 164Reimagining Christmas - Episode 164
We need to acknowledge it: An in-person Christmas experience may not be a draw this year. Most people who are not connected with a church will probably not want to go to an in-person experience, wearing masks, socially distanced in an unfamiliar place, surrounded by an unfamiliar crowd of people. The opportunity we have this year is to equip our attendees to bring church to their families instead of bringing their families to church. Christmas has always been the holiday when people are a little more open to faith and open to church. What could we create online that would reach people outside the faith? If you don't start with this question, you'll default to doing what churches have always done, which is to put the team's best energy into designing an in-person experience and using the leftover energy to figure out how to put that experience on-line. In this episode, Tony and Amy are joined by Sean Bublitz to help you figure out where to start and what to consider. For the full episode transcript, links mentioned during the show, and to download the Leader Conversation Guide, visit this episode's Show Notes at theunstuckgroup.com/episode164. Join the Live Conversation on Social Media If you're listening on Wednesday, when the episode first releases, join the live conversation The Unstuck Group's team will be having on social media about this week's topic. We use hashtag #unstuckchurch on Twitter. Or you can join in on Facebook. Ask your questions and add your comments about the topic. If you're catching this episode later, you can still join in! Just tag us @unstuckgroup or use #unstuckchurch, and include [episode 164] in your post for reference.
Ep 163Best Practices for Digital Ministry Strategy - Episode 163
"Are there any examples we can follow??" That's the question we keep getting from pastors. You're realizing you need a digital strategy. You're getting lots of inspiration. But you'd really like to see what this looks like in practice. So in this episode, Tony and Amy share best practices and stories from real churches around the country who are implementing a digital engagement strategy effectively. You'll find some practical things you can implement right away, as well as clarity around the longer-term picture of where your church needs to make pivots. Before you listen, note that this is Part 3 of this series on The New Front Door, so if you haven't yet, go back and listen to the first part (Episode 161) on the three strategies churches need for connecting new people to faith and church, and the second part (Episode 162) on how churches build a digital engagement strategy. For the full episode transcript, links mentioned during the show, and to download the Leader Conversation Guide, visit this episode's Show Notes at theunstuckgroup.com/episode163. Join the Live Conversation on Social Media If you're listening on Wednesday, when the episode first releases, join the live conversation The Unstuck Group's team will be having on social media about this week's topic. We use hashtag #unstuckchurch on Twitter. Or you can join in on Facebook. Ask your questions and add your comments about the topic. If you're catching this episode later, you can still join in! Just tag us @unstuckgroup or use #unstuckchurch, and include [episode 162] in your post for reference.
Ep 162How to Build a Digital Engagement Strategy - Episode 162
Having a digital strategy isn't the win. Helping become disciples of Jesus—and then disciple makers—is the win. But the need for a digital strategy to help you do that isn't going away anytime soon. The good news is that if you do the hard work of clarifying the big and small next steps for each part of the faith journey continuum, it gets easier to design strategies that work and monitor ministry health. In this episode, Tony and Amy share a practical framework—and real-world examples—for helping people take steps digitally in their faith journey. For the full episode transcript, links mentioned during the show, and to download the Leader Conversation Guide, visit this episode's Show Notes at theunstuckgroup.com/episode162. Join the Live Conversation on Social Media If you're listening on Wednesday, when the episode first releases, join the live conversation The Unstuck Group's team will be having on social media about this week's topic. We use hashtag #unstuckchurch on Twitter. Or you can join in on Facebook. Ask your questions and add your comments about the topic. If you're catching this episode later, you can still join in! Just tag us @unstuckgroup or use #unstuckchurch, and include [episode 162] in your post for reference.
Ep 1613 Strategies for Connecting New People to Faith & Church
What is the FRONT DOOR of the church now? The COVID-19 pandemic moved churches online—but that shift wasn't really our choice. And what has been revealed through all of this is a huge gap that churches have around their ministry strategies to reach people who are outside the faith and outside the church. While some churches are already returning to pre-pandemic attendance levels, most mid-size and larger churches are realizing that's still many months away. And reaching new people? How do you reach new guests when most people are staying home most of the time? The need for a digital strategy isn't going away anytime soon. In this episode, Tony and Amy share three critical strategies churches need to engage to open up the new front door of their churches. For the full episode transcript, links mentioned during the show, and to download the Leader Conversation Guide, visit this episode's Show Notes at theunstuckgroup.com/episode161. Join the Live Conversation on Social Media If you're listening on Wednesday, when the episode first releases, join the live conversation The Unstuck Group's team will be having on social media about this week's topic. We use hashtag #unstuckchurch on Twitter. Or you can join in on Facebook. Ask your questions and add your comments about the topic. If you're catching this episode later, you can still join in! Just tag us @unstuckgroup or use #unstuckchurch, and include [episode 161] in your post for reference.